De'Aaron Fox Rumors Suggest a Possible Trade to The Spurs

[CGD]

You don’t value the unprotected Minny pick higher than Dillingham?

I think the pick is probably worth more but if they’re trying to retool in short order I could understand Sacramento valuing a player over the pick but not sure they would specifically value dillingham higher.

Understandable for King fan who for over 20 years have been sold “this time this Lotto pick will hit!” Totally get why they want players over just picks.

[scott]

You don’t value the unprotected Minny pick higher than Dillingham?

I think the pick is probably worth more but if they’re trying to retool in short order I could understand Sacramento valuing a player over the pick but not sure they would specifically value dillingham higher.

I definitely think it's dependent on the situation, but I think for most teams the best offer is going to be picks + young, promising player. So while he MIN pick may be worth more than Dillingham (let's just assume it is), the problem is that you run into a point where you still need to add that young, promising player, and having more and more picks doesn't solve that (especially ones that don't come due for 7 years).

[mo7888]

If ex is correct (in the trade thread) that the market for Collins and Sexton is SRP's, then I'd rather do something along those lines and save a bigger fish type package until the summer.

[scott]

If ex is correct (in the trade thread) that the market for Collins and Sexton is SRP's, then I'd rather do something along those lines and save a bigger fish type package until the summer.

If it's for some SRPs, I'm much more interested. Sexton for Keldon shaves off a year of salary, which is a huge W. Sexton is quite literally one of the worst defenders in all of the NBA, so you'd need to be fully prepared to be as equally as pissed off at him as you get by Keldon and Branham :lol

[baseline bum]

Devin Vassell and some picks for De'Aaron Fox? Every day of the week, baby. :hungry:

If only the GM who picked Bagley over Doncic was still there

[Kevin]

I’d have little problem including Sochan since I suspect he’ll quickly fall into the Dev/KJ category once he starts making 20M per year. Paying players 5M per year with serious limitations doesn’t hurt too much but the moment they start making 20M people change their tune awful quick. It happened to KJ and Dev with Sochan next in line.

[baseline bum]

If it's for some SRPs, I'm much more interested. Sexton for Keldon shaves off a year of salary, which is a huge W. Sexton is quite literally one of the worst defenders in all of the NBA, so you'd need to be fully prepared to be as equally as pissed off at him as you get by Keldon and Branham :lol

Wow knew Sexton was bad but didn't realize he was in the 0th percentile defensively on craftednba :rollin

[scott]

If only the GM who picked Bagley over Doncic was still there

I've learned a lot about the Kangz today. Apparently the owner appointed his daughter to be GM of their G-League team, and she turned around and had a relationship with one of the players. :lol

The incompetence may run deep there.

[baseline bum]

I've learned a lot about the Kangz today. Apparently the owner appointed his daughter to be GM of their G-League team, and she turned around and had a relationship with one of the players. :lol

The incompetence may run deep there.

:lmao Never change, Kings :lmao

[scott]

Wow knew Sexton was bad but didn't realize he was in the 0th percentile defensively on craftednba :rollin

One of the funnest DARKO charts out there... like an inverted middle finger :lol

https://i.ibb.co/whw8HLS/sexton.png

[mo7888]

If it's for some SRPs, I'm much more interested. Sexton for Keldon shaves off a year of salary, which is a huge W. Sexton is quite literally one of the worst defenders in all of the NBA, so you'd need to be fully prepared to be as equally as pissed off at him as you get by Keldon and Branham :lol

I'm happily prepared for that eventuality based on what he brings on the other end.

[exstatic]

I've learned a lot about the Kangz today. Apparently the owner appointed his daughter to be GM of their G-League team, and she turned around and had a relationship with one of the players. :lol

The incompetence may run deep there.

Nepo babies abound. Apparently,they’re a trash version of the Buss’s.

[CGD]

If ex is correct (in the trade thread) that the market for Collins and Sexton is SRP's, then I'd rather do something along those lines and save a bigger fish type package until the summer.

I agree. Zach’s contract will be more valuable then as a bonafide expiring anyway.

Meanwhile the structure of Keldons should make it more enticing too. For example, up until this year (when he proved me right!), I always wanted Hunter as a bit of a distressed asset. Hawks were looking to move him hard but weren’t getting takers. Using the Keldon contract could shake loose a player like that with one extra year and an increasing salary etc.

[DAF86]

HzY20QJ4rr4?si=BC-lpIQTWS5NGCnU

De'Cancer Fox?

[spurraider21]

^literally the worst basketball channel on YouTube. Has outright made up quotes and such before.

just clickbait and on top off it comes across as a tool/douche

[DAF86]

Been engaging on the Kings reddit, and man... things are bleak over there. Lots of understandable feelings of dejection, mixed with unrealistic expectations of ROI for Fox. The interest in Vassell is not high, to put it kindly. They want Castle and Sochan, but I don't think this FO would be willing to part with either (not getting into whether they should). I think the actualization of defensive prowess catapults them to the top of the most important players for our team going forward to the FO, and they'd rather just pass on deals than lose those two.

The lack of young, promising players on our roster (we have two: Castle and Sochan. I don't count Vassell or Johnson, guys on their extensions, to be "young" anymore) really hurts our ability to get moves done like these. Not trying to relitigate the Dillingham trade, but having someone you just took #8 overall might help in this scenario, because teams don't seem to want picks alone.

I wouldn't mind trading one of them (or maybe even both), tbh. I like both players but, let's face it, Sochan is never going to shoot it straight, and while Castle I think will develop his shot some, the most likely scenario is that he will forever be a below average shooter. Add another below average shooter in Fox and a potential lineup containing Fox, Castle and Sochan doesn't make much sense.

If we are trading for Fox, the most sound thing would probably be to send one of Sochan or Castle (or both) in ex-change.

[baseline bum]

I wouldn't mind trading one of them (or maybe even both), tbh. I like both players but, let's face it, Sochan is never going to shoot it straight, and while Castle I think will develop his shot some, the most likely scenario is that he will forever be a below average shooter. Add another below average shooter in Fox and a potential lineup containing Fox, Castle and Sochan doesn't make much sense.

If we are trading for Fox, the most sound thing would probably be to send one of Sochan or Castle (or both) in ex-change.

I can't stomach the thought of trading Castle unless it's for a Tier 1 star like Giannis, Luka, Jokic, SGA, Ant, or Tatum if one of them tried to force his way out, the kind of trade where it's completely obvious you move Castle for. But feels like a less than optimal career trajectory would be Castle developing into a healthy version of Chicago Lonzo Ball while a good but not necessarily best case would be Castle developing into a player like Alvin Robertson. Either way you probably have the kind of guy you need to be able to throw against Luka, Ant, or SGA in a playoff series so you don't get completely skullfucked by them.

[DAF86]

I can't stomach the thought of trading Castle unless it's for a Tier 1 star like Giannis, Luka, Jokic, SGA, Ant, or Tatum if one of them tried to force his way out, the kind of trade where it's completely obvious you move Castle for. But feels like a less than optimal career trajectory would be Castle developing into a healthy version of Chicago Lonzo Ball while a good case would be Castle developing into a player like Alvin Robertson. Either way you probably have the kind of guy you need to be able to throw against Luka, Ant, or SGA in a playoff series so you don't get completely skullfucked by them.

Chicago Lonzo Ball was a 42% 3pt shooter on over 7 attempts per game. It is highly unlikely Castle ever comes even close to something like that.

Whether Castle becomes an all-star or remains a role player his entire career, I think he will always be a below average 3pt shooter. Sochan the same thing. At some point you gotta analyze if it's worth it to keep both as core guys or move away from one or even both of them.

[ambchang]

Chicago Lonzo Ball was a 42% 3pt shooter on over 7 attempts per game. It is highly unlikely Castle ever comes even close to something like that.

Whether Castle becomes an all-star or remains a role player his entire career, I think he will always be a below average 3pt shooter. Sochan the same thing. At some point you gotta analyze if it's worth it to keep both as core guys or move away from one or even both of them.

Lonzo did that in 35 games. His rookie season he was shooting around 30% on 6 attempts. Better than castle but not great at all. Lonzo is a career 36% shooter on 6 attempts a game. If ball can develop into a half decent 3 pt shooter then castle has a chance. He’s half way into his rookie season so I’m not sure why you are so sure castle can’t develop into an average shooter or even above average.

Sochan though ….

[Bruno]

Fox is a damn good player. As others have said before in this thread, he might be the best realistic trade target possible. He isn't perfect but no player is.

Saying that, I won't say "Spurs must trade for Fox". There are many ways for Spurs to build their team. Going after Fox is a possibility but there are others like developing Castle into Spurs main primary ballhandler/playmaker. So far Spurs have been very patient in their rebuilding process but it seems to work.

[baseline bum]

Chicago Lonzo Ball was a 42% 3pt shooter on over 7 attempts per game. It is highly unlikely Castle ever comes even close to something like that.

Whether Castle becomes an all-star or remains a role player his entire career, I think he will always be a below average 3pt shooter. Sochan the same thing. At some point you gotta analyze if it's worth it to keep both as core guys or move away from one or even both of them.

IDK lots of scouts seem to think Castle's form is good and can be developed into a decent jumper the same way was said about Wemby last year when he was shooting 29% from the three for a lot of the season. If he looked like Sochan shooting the three with a ridiculous hitch then I'd be much more willing to move him but that's not the case. Sochan I'm much more ready to move despite the big year three jump he has taken because he will never be a competent shooter. His shot looks like a way worse version of 19 year old Tony Parker's and would have to be created from zero the same way Tony's was without the benefit of having Chip Engelland on the staff.

[Atl Spur]

Mike Brown is a pop disciple; he’ll let Patfo see behind the fox curtain. We don’t need fox at the expense of losing castle in any scenario.

[DAF86]

Lonzo did that in 35 games. His rookie season he was shooting around 30% on 6 attempts. Better than castle but not great at all. Lonzo is a career 36% shooter on 6 attempts a game. If ball can develop into a half decent 3 pt shooter then castle has a chance. He’s half way into his rookie season so I’m not sure why you are so sure castle can’t develop into an average shooter or even above average.

Sochan though ….

Lonzo was an elite 3pt shooter in college. Castle wasn't. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see Castle jumper ever becoming reliable, it's just all over the place. Best case scenario he becomes a shooter like Dejounte, who's still below average.

[LeBowen]

Lonzo was an elite 3pt shooter in college. Castle wasn't. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see Castle jumper ever becoming reliable, it's just all over the place. Best case scenario he becomes a shooter like Dejounte, who's still below average.

Dejounte didn't even have a jumpshot when he was drafted, was shooting one-handed. Castle is way ahead of him. I'm not saying Castle will become a great shooter, but if he's not a solid one in like 3 years, then there are questions to be asked about our coaching staff. Kind of how Derrick was a career 34% shooter on 3.7 attemps with us, then he suddenly took a leap at 28 after his first summer with the Celtics and is at 39% on 6.3 attempts with them.

[DAF86]

Dejounte didn't even have a jumpshot when he was drafted, was shooting one-handed. Castle is way ahead of him. I'm not saying Castle will become a great shooter, but if he's not a solid one in like 3 years, then there are questions to be asked about our coaching staff. Kind of how Derrick was a career 34% shooter on 3.7 attemps with us, then he suddenly took a leap at 28 after his first summer with the Celtics and is at 39% on 6.3 attempts with them.

Everybody keeps mentioning Castle's form as an atribute that will make him improve over time, but I don't know if that will be the case. In theory, an easily to spot broken jumper should be easier to fix. Like you said, Dejounte used to shoot one handed, Kawhi used to take soccer throw ins. Castle's form has no noticeable hitch but his misses are god awful, they are all over the place. Sometimes short, sometimes long, to either side, airballs. What do you say to Steph to fix his shot?

[TheChillFactor]

Mike Brown is a pop disciple; he’ll let Patfo see behind the fox curtain. We don’t need fox at the expense of losing castle in any scenario.

this is the funniest part of those idiots firing mike brown from our side. They just gave us a leg up in any trade negotiations.

[LeBowen]

Everybody keeps mentioning Castle's form as an atribute that will make him improve over time, but I don't know if that will be the case. In theory, an easily to spot broken jumper should be easier to fix. Like you said, Dejounte used to shoot one handed, Kawhi used to take soccer throw ins. Castle's form has no noticeable hitch but his misses are god awful, they are all over the place. Sometimes short, sometimes long, to either side, airballs. What do you say to Steph to fix his shot?

He just needs repetitions and confidence.
First 9 games he was at 12% on 2.7 attempts.
Got his rythm as a starter and shot 33% on 5.3 attempts over 15 games.
Got benched and has been at 12% on 2 attempts over the past 8 games.

I don't think him shooting borderline good in those 15 games as a starter was a coincidence.

[Raven]

Everybody keeps mentioning Castle's form as an atribute that will make him improve over time, but I don't know if that will be the case. In theory, an easily to spot broken jumper should be easier to fix. Like you said, Dejounte used to shoot one handed, Kawhi used to take soccer throw ins. Castle's form has no noticeable hitch but his misses are god awful, they are all over the place. Sometimes short, sometimes long, to either side, airballs. What do you say to Steph to fix his shot?

go the danny green route and stop shooting triples in transition, focus on getting good at catching and shooting with proper body form and release, then focus on step back 3s and other similar opportunities where he can set his feet properly and adjust the strength of the shot as he should. Then and only then he can take transition 3s, heatcheck triples and other stuff that we will probably never get to see.

[ambchang]

Lonzo was an elite 3pt shooter in college. Castle wasn't. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see Castle jumper ever becoming reliable, it's just all over the place. Best case scenario he becomes a shooter like Dejounte, who's still below average.

Lonzo was shooting that across the head weird shot in college all the way to the first few years of nba. He fixed his shit completely the last few years.

Really not sure how castles three point shooting is set on stone. Derrick white, Kawhi, Norman Powell, Jerami grant, Tyrese maxey, Jaylen brown, Ant, kemba walker. There are so many players who worked on it and became a good, even great shooter despite being a bad college shooter or even bad nab shooter the first few years of their careers.

Again, not saying castle will magically turn into the next klay Thompson but there still a chance he becomes good. His form is different shot to shot so he has to nail down a consistent form, maintain balance and work on it.

Sochans shot will have to be totally reconstructed. It will take another few years, at the minimum.

[DAF86]

Lonzo was shooting that across the head weird shot in college all the way to the first few years of nba. He fixed his shit completely the last few years.

Really not sure how castles three point shooting is set on stone. Derrick white, Kawhi, Norman Powell, Jerami grant, Tyrese maxey, Jaylen brown, Ant, kemba walker. There are so many players who worked on it and became a good, even great shooter despite being a bad college shooter or even bad nab shooter the first few years of their careers.

Again, not saying castle will magically turn into the next klay Thompson but there still a chance he becomes good. His form is different shot to shot so he has to nail down a consistent form, maintain balance and work on it.

Sochans shot will have to be totally reconstructed. It will take another few years, at the minimum.

I never said Castle's shot won't improve, of course it will. I'm just saying that I don't think it will ever get to league average levels.

And, yeah, there are many bad college shooters that became good NBA ones, but there a lot more than remained bad.

There are different types of bad young shooters. With Wemby everybody could see he would be good with time. Not only his form looked great, he never shy away from taking them. Then you have a case like Kawhi, who clearly fixed his form and became elite overnight. On the other side you have a guy like Sochan, that is easy to see why he's an awful shooter, and then there's Castle, whose from looks good enough, but his misses are consistently awful. You can see from the get go they have no chance of going in. Despite his seemingly OK form, there's something fundamentally broken there. I don't know if it's something technical or just mental, but that's what gives me the impression that he will never get to even a league average level, shooting wise.

[Davidicus]

Castle is borderline untouchable. What does his shot need? More shots. Time. The dude has such a bright future for us.

[DAF86]

Castle is borderline untouchable. What does his shot need? More shots. Time. The dude has such a bright future for us.

Then Sochan might be the one that needs to go ... OR the coaching staff needs to start playing both together and find a way to make it work between those two, if they really are part of the core moving forward.

[LeBowen]

Then Sochan might be the one that needs to go ... OR the coaching staff needs to start playing both together and find a way to make it work between those two, if they really are part of the core moving forward.

Sochan is the perfect energy guy for this team and long term he needs to be the 6th man, imo.
The issue is that we got no other defenders with size and we need him to start in most matchups.

[DAF86]

Sochan is the perfect energy guy for this team and long term he needs to be the 6th man, imo.
The issue is that we got no other defenders with size and we need him to start in most matchups.

Somebody is gonna overpay Sochan for him to be a 6th man, imho.

[LeBowen]

Somebody is gonna overpay Sochan for him to be a 6th man, imho.

I don't think he's worth more than 15 to 20 a year without a jumpshot, even with the rising cap.

[DAF86]

I don't think he's worth more than 15 to 20 a year without a jumpshot, even with the rising cap.

But you just know some franchise with cap space is gonna offer him more and force the Spurs to make a decision to overpay themselves or let him leave.

[LeBowen]

But you just know some franchise with cap space is gonna offer him more and force the Spurs to make a decision to overpay themselves or let him leave.

I can see him being traded if he doesn't agree to an extension this summer, no point in risking it.

[KobesAchilles]

I love the ambiguous “some team” is going to offer Socham a lot of money. No team is going to offer him 30+ million a year. So then it’s like is a team going to offer him $25 million a year? Maybe. Let’s look at the teams though. Nets? I don’t think they’d do it but they’re the only ones I think that could

Also can we hurry and trade Vassell for Fox please

[ambchang]

I never said Castle's shot won't improve, of course it will. I'm just saying that I don't think it will ever get to league average levels.

And, yeah, there are many bad college shooters that became good NBA ones, but there a lot more than remained bad.

There are different types of bad young shooters. With Wemby everybody could see he would be good with time. Not only his form looked great, he never shy away from taking them. Then you have a case like Kawhi, who clearly fixed his form and became elite overnight. On the other side you have a guy like Sochan, that is easy to see why he's an awful shooter, and then there's Castle, whose from looks good enough, but his misses are consistently awful. You can see from the get go they have no chance of going in. Despite his seemingly OK form, there's something fundamentally broken there. I don't know if it's something technical or just mental, but that's what gives me the impression that he will never get to even a league average level, shooting wise.
Not saying you said he’s never going to improve, but the point about him having a hard cap ceiling of being below average.

Castles form looks OK at a macro level but I felt his release and how he uses his left hang messes the shot up. There are ways to improve consistency in his shooting and ways to fix wayward shots, and that’s what the shooting coaches are supposed to do. Now whether the spurs have that staff to do the job is another matter.

Agreed that his result’s look bad but it’s still just a few months in his career. He seems intent to improve and appears to have a quiet confidence about his own abilities. We will see.

Sochan though, he really has to redo the entire thing. I’m not sure why three years in and it’s getting worse, not better.

[onechance87]

Somebody is gonna overpay Sochan for him to be a 6th man, imho.

nobody gonna overpay for him.The guy is getting worst at shooting.Cant be making the same mistakes over and over
ovepaying players like we did with keldon,collins and now vassell.Nothing more then 20 million a year,Thats his value.

[scott]

I don't think he's worth more than 15 to 20 a year without a jumpshot, even with the rising cap.


But you just know some franchise with cap space is gonna offer him more and force the Spurs to make a decision to overpay themselves or let him leave.

Brian Wright: That Franchise is us! 5/150 this summer, here we come!

[The Truth #6]

Brian Wright: That Franchise is us! 5/150 this summer, here we come!

Lol. Possibly. The agent will look at Devin's contract to start the conversation and proceed to negotiate from there.

Tangent: re: Sochan's crazy shooting form. I think the staff is trying to get him to replicate what seems to work at the free throw line into his jumper? Just guessing. He seems to have a similar weird hitch at the FT line.

[DAF86]

I love the ambiguous “some team” is going to offer Socham a lot of money. No team is going to offer him 30+ million a year. So then it’s like is a team going to offer him $25 million a year? Maybe. Let’s look at the teams though. Nets? I don’t think they’d do it but they’re the only ones I think that could

Also can we hurry and trade Vassell for Fox please

Yeah, "some" team. I still don't know who that team will be (most likely the Spurs, tbh), but there will somebody out there. It has always hapened and it will continue to happen. It is how this league works.

[spurraider21]

Yeah, "some" team. I still don't know who that team will be (most likely the Spurs, tbh), but there will somebody out there. It has always hapened and it will continue to happen. It is how this league works.
the spurs have had a tendency to bid against themselves pretty poorly

[DAF86]

the spurs have had a tendency to bid against themselves pretty poorly

It's as if folks here don't know the history of their own franchise. :lol

[MannyIsGod]

There's no way Sochan should get more than Vassel. 25-30 million is too damn much for a guy who can't shoot. He's gotten better, but he's not a must have.

[scott]

There's no way Sochan should get more than Vassel. 25-30 million is too damn much for a guy who can't shoot. He's gotten better, but he's not a must have.

To be fair, there's no way Vassell should be getting what he is... but here we are!

[LeBowen]

To be fair, there's no way Vassell should be getting what he is... but here we are!

I'm not going to lie, I'm so damn tired of these "he'll put it together" fundamentally flawed players.
Considering Wemby is already almost on MVP level, we have to ask ourselves is waiting for those players worth it?

As in Devin can become a solid 20-24ppg scorer, but he'll never be Booker. Do we really need to wait a couple more years for him to get there in his 7th season?
And do we have to wait for Jeremy to learn how to shoot the ball? Will he even do it if he hasn't shown any signs of jumpshot improvements in his 3rd season?

Playing inferior players who are suited for their roles and modern NBA has given us better results both last and this season even if those players are worse individually.

[MannyIsGod]

I mean that's what rebuilding is. Its drafting a bunch of young dudes who will likely miss but might put it together. The fact that Spurs fans have gotten 3 #1 franchise 7 footers has really spoiled us. More often than not we are going to need to find players like Kawhi, Tony and Manu who put it together on the way to becoming great. Sochan definitely isn't that, and neither is Devin, and while they might both have some value we need to stop paying every player we draft like they are worth it. I honestly don't have a problem with either the Vassel or Keldon extensions because of the context of when they were given but we've entered a new stage in the rebuild where we need to be aa lot more calculated about new contracts and the opportunity cost associated with them.

[MannyIsGod]

To be fair, there's no way Vassell should be getting what he is... but here we are!

Sure, but I'd still argue that Vassel is still worth more than Sochan even with the advanced metrics. Being able to shoot a 3 is a far more desirable skill than anything Sochan provides currently and this is where while I think the advanced metrics are a good measuring stick they aren't useful without the context that making up for a players defensive shortcomings - especially with a player like Wemby - is a lot easier than making up for a players lack of shooting in today's NBA.

[rjv]

the problem with losing devin is that this team is not exactly loaded with scorers so who becomes the 3rd option on this team? i would prefer a scenario where devin is that 3rd option, which is where i think he would do better at. i think it's all a moot point though because the kings are going to ask for way too many 1st rounders. if fox gets traded, it will probably be to the rockets.

[LeBowen]

I mean that's what rebuilding is. Its drafting a bunch of young dudes who will likely miss but might put it together. The fact that Spurs fans have gotten 3 #1 franchise 7 footers has really spoiled us. More often than not we are going to need to find players like Kawhi, Tony and Manu who put it together on the way to becoming great. Sochan definitely isn't that, and neither is Devin, and while they might both have some value we need to stop paying every player we draft like they are worth it. I honestly don't have a problem with either the Vassel or Keldon extensions because of the context of when they were given but we've entered a new stage in the rebuild where we need to be aa lot more calculated about new contracts and the opportunity cost associated with them.

You should print that post out and stick it to Wright's office door, tbh.

As you said, it was logical to take high upside swings while we're tanking, but we got the best prospect ever and he's already delivering.
We simply can't waste any more seasons after this one. From the next season onwards, I'd say that not winning a playoff series equals to a wasted season.
25-26 and 26-27 seasons should be about getting serious playoff experience, making it to the second round and then from 27-28 season every year when we aren't legit, top tier contenders with the best player in the league on the roster would be a massive failure.

We can wait for 2025 draft, but it's not like we're getting a top5 pick barring some more ridiculous lottery luck. I feel like too many Spurs fans are way too confident in their thinking that we'll get another legit starter who will contribute right away in 2025 draft. Probably won't happen. And waiting for the summer when it comes to trades also isn't really a factor, it's not like there are superstars on the verge of leaving their team and could be available next summer.
A lot of people had the same take last summer, let's wait for the season to start, players will be available at the deadline. Now that there are some players available, they'd rather wait for the next summer. The next summer they'll wait for the next deadline and so on.

As for the players we found on the way to becoming great, both Tony and Manu were side projects. Let's get this kid from Europe with a late pick while we compete, maybe they'll work out. Which is fine and which we should keep doing all the time. But we can't rely on those picks to build the team around. They need to be side projects.
Nephew was different because he was brought with a clear purpose. We desperately needed a wing defender and we got one. He was immediately contributing in that role and then developed into something more. Way above the expectations, but that was just a bonus. We can still draft players with upside, but they need to be able to contribute something. As in we can draft a legit 3pt shooter to help in that department right away and then hope he develops into a complete offensive player.

Idk, I'm honestly just frustrated that our second best player is a 39 year old who doesn't even score the ball.

[scott]

Sure, but I'd still argue that Vassel is still worth more than Sochan even with the advanced metrics. Being able to shoot a 3 is a far more desirable skill than anything Sochan provides currently and this is where while I think the advanced metrics are a good measuring stick they aren't useful without the context that making up for a players defensive shortcomings - especially with a player like Wemby - is a lot easier than making up for a players lack of shooting in today's NBA.

No arguments here. I've come around a lot on Jeremy, but I still think something like Keldon's deal (scaled to the new CBA) is appropriate for him.

Devin is just a dude who Spurs fans have overinflated because we've been so desperate for someone to cheer for. The deeper I dig into to him, the most disgusted I become. Like Dejounte has pointed out a few times, you can live with bottom quartile defenders if they are elite offensive players... but Devin isn't even that. He's just above average, but above average has been enough to be a hero around these parts. It's time for us to have higher standards.

[scott]

the problem with losing devin is that this team is not exactly loaded with scorers so who becomes the 3rd option on this team? i would prefer a scenario where devin is that 3rd option, which is where i think he would do better at. i think it's all a moot point though because the kings are going to ask for way too many 1st rounders. if fox gets traded, it will probably be to the rockets.

Great point. In losing Devin you really MUST be bringing back someone who can at least replace, but ideally upgrade, what he provides on the offensive end. Anything short of that there is no point in moving off him. Devin does offer decent floor (as in floor/ceiling, not the court floor) value as a 6th man, even if he'd be an overpaid 6th man.

[MannyIsGod]

the problem with losing devin is that this team is not exactly loaded with scorers so who becomes the 3rd option on this team? i would prefer a scenario where devin is that 3rd option, which is where i think he would do better at. i think it's all a moot point though because the kings are going to ask for way too many 1st rounders. if fox gets traded, it will probably be to the rockets.

This is the exact point I've tried to make before. The Spurs aren't in a position where they can trade off rotation level players for stars and see a gain because of the lack of depth. It doesn't mean they shouldn't do a particular trade, but it does mean that they need to be mindful of their need to build depth.

[LeBowen]

Great point. In losing Devin you really MUST be bringing back someone who can at least replace, but ideally upgrade, what he provides on the offensive end. Anything short of that there is no point in moving off him. Devin does offer decent floor (as in floor/ceiling, not the court floor) value as a 6th man, even if he'd be an overpaid 6th man.

The issue is would he accept a 6th man role?
As you often say, he has the main character syndrome. Would it be beneath him to take a step back?
There are 35 days until the deadline, most teams have a lot of needs and very little assets, hopefully the dominos start to fall soon and we finally get some upgrades.
I'd love to get Fox, but I understand it wouldn't be an easy trade to make.
On the other hand, if we don't get a serious backup big, I'll go back to team Brian Wrong. As I said last summer, he's shown that he's a great salesman, but we're in desperate need of him getting some good deals as a buyer.

[MannyIsGod]

Great point. In losing Devin you really MUST be bringing back someone who can at least replace, but ideally upgrade, what he provides on the offensive end. Anything short of that there is no point in moving off him. Devin does offer decent floor (as in floor/ceiling, not the court floor) value as a 6th man, even if he'd be an overpaid 6th man.

Honestly wish we'd just put him off the bench again and see how he does in that role in an extended fashion. I think Champ benefits from more minutes with Wemby and Devin benefits from more minutes without him so I think its actually win win but here we are. I don't even care about what he's paid because by the time it becomes a factor he's almsot done with the extension. I really do think its largely irrelevant.

[RC_Drunkford]

I totally expect Castle to be a decent 3-point shooter by next season

[SpurSpike]

I'm not saying he will be, but IF Castle is the point guard of the future why would we spend big on Fox especially if he is not a knock down shooter? Seems kinda redundant unless you traded Castle which I don't really want to do yet.

[spurraider21]

I'm not saying he will be, but IF Castle is the point guard of the future why would we spend big on Fox especially if he is not a knock down shooter? Seems kinda redundant unless you traded Castle which I don't really want to do yet.
a) because castle could go out as part of the deal

b) because fox already is an all star/all-nba type player and you dont need projection to get there

you are making a lot of assumptions about how castle's career arc may go, even if we are optimistic right now. theres a world where castle doesnt pan out. there's a world where he becomes a good/solid starter but never quite all star caliber. theres a world where he becomes awesome but not as a pure point guard.

[SpurSpike]

a) Yeah I agree that Castle would likely have to be part of the deal

b) Like Dejounte, Fox only has one all star appearance and he was also an injury replacement just like Dejounte was. Do we want to make our version of the Atlanta DeJounte trade?

Yes you can only speculate on Castles career going forward but we have Chris Paul to bridge that gap and give us time to evaluate.

[Mr. Body]

I'm not saying he will be, but IF Castle is the point guard of the future why would we spend big on Fox especially if he is not a knock down shooter? Seems kinda redundant unless you traded Castle which I don't really want to do yet.

1) I don't see the Spurs splurging on any expensive player. Not right now.

2) I don't see the Spurs splurging on a small, high-usage, volume-shooting guard.

3) If the Spurs haven't gone for Garland or Trae Young or Colin Sexton or any other high-volume, tiny, no-defense guards, why De'Aaron Fox?

4) Wemby turns 21 this weekend. He's freaking not even 21.

5) Look at Lauri Markkanen stats about now. These one-ASG-year, high volume scorers in contract years who never win many games anyway are just not the template you're looking for.

I don't think the Spurs are even thinking twice about Fox.

[scott]

Anyone got access to this? https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6032859/2025/01/02/deaaron-fox-kings-mike-brown-firing/?source=user_shared_article

Apparently says Spurs "voice has been the loudest of those expressing interest in Fox"

[scott]

The issue is would he accept a 6th man role?
As you often say, he has the main character syndrome. Would it be beneath him to take a step back?


Yep, that's the million dollar question. Seems like he idolizes Kobe (though I did note he has wearing Book 1s recently whereas I think he used to wear Kobe Vs... which by the way I'll give a personal endorsement to Book 1s as a great every day shoe... I'm wearing a pair today, actually - I have two and will probably pick up a few more colorways) and wants to be "the man" but I don't know the dude. He does speak very well of the staff and his time here in San Antonio so maybe he's more humble than I give him credit for.

[Seventyniner]

Anyone got access to this? https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6032859/2025/01/02/deaaron-fox-kings-mike-brown-firing/?source=user_shared_article

Apparently says Spurs "voice has been the loudest of those expressing interest in Fox"

I won't post the whole article, per LJ's request in the past, but here's the Spurs part.


The San Antonio Spurs, Miami Heat and Los Angeles Lakers top the list of teams that are most often discussed as possible Fox landing spots, with others sure to make a run at him if (when?) he’s truly on the market.

The Orlando Magic, for example, are known to be contemplating a pursuit. The Houston Rockets, who want to analyze their current core through this season but could be in the market for another All-Star-caliber player this summer, are also known to be intrigued by the idea of partnering with Fox, who is a Houston native. Make no mistake, though: the Spurs noise is the loudest.

btw for that site and some others, if you're on desktop, if you Ctrl+A then Ctrl+C quickly enough after refreshing you can copy the entire text of the article and paste it into a text editor and read it there.

[scott]

I won't post the whole article, per LJ's request in the past, but here's the Spurs part.



btw for that site and some others, if you're on desktop, if you Ctrl+A then Ctrl+C quickly enough after refreshing you can copy the entire text of the article and paste it into a text editor and read it there.

Thanks buddy. Just did the copy and paste and shocked that is literally all is says about the Spurs. How you gonna make a statement like "the Spurs noise is the loudest" and then not address that comment at all again? LOL

[Seventyniner]

Thanks buddy. Just did the copy and paste and shocked that is literally all is says about the Spurs. How you gonna make a statement like "the Spurs noise is the loudest" and then not address that comment at all again? LOL

It also doesn't say anything about the source of that noise. There are many possible sources, but the only one I would want to know about is the level of the Spurs' interest. If the Spurs are constantly calling the Kings and putting offers on the table it would be way different than having Klutch being the only one talking about SA specifically with the Spurs themselves just staying mum.

[The Truth #6]

Klutch is likely the source, the noise all wrapped in one.

[CGD]

a) Yeah I agree that Castle would likely have to be part of the deal

b) Like Dejounte, Fox only has one all star appearance and he was also an injury replacement just like Dejounte was. Do we want to make our version of the Atlanta DeJounte trade?

Yes you can only speculate on Castles career going forward but we have Chris Paul to bridge that gap and give us time to evaluate.

Nah, I don’t think the spurs want Fox THAT much. He just happens to be available now. I mean obviously you have to put up a decent package, but they’ve consistently told us fans that they won’t rush things. It’s the player that wants out and Sac that is under the gun. Spurs’ leverage is highest this summer.

[The Truth #6]

Has this video analysis already been mentioned:

https://youtu.be/HzY20QJ4rr4?si=rkgJ7ItWNLfIKGTc

[timtonymanu]

a) Yeah I agree that Castle would likely have to be part of the deal

b) Like Dejounte, Fox only has one all star appearance and he was also an injury replacement just like Dejounte was. Do we want to make our version of the Atlanta DeJounte trade?

Yes you can only speculate on Castles career going forward but we have Chris Paul to bridge that gap and give us time to evaluate.

Dejounte does not have the offensive game that Fox does while DJ is a better defender. I don’t think they’re comparable at all

[objective]

1) I don't see the Spurs splurging on any expensive player. Not right now.

2) I don't see the Spurs splurging on a small, high-usage, volume-shooting guard.

3) If the Spurs haven't gone for Garland or Trae Young or Colin Sexton or any other high-volume, tiny, no-defense guards, why De'Aaron Fox?

4) Wemby turns 21 this weekend. He's freaking not even 21.

5) Look at Lauri Markkanen stats about now. These one-ASG-year, high volume scorers in contract years who never win many games anyway are just not the template you're looking for.

I don't think the Spurs are even thinking twice about Fox.

I don't disagree that the Spurs in general may not be looking for a high price player now, and I have never been too high on Makannen

But I don't think agree with calling Fox 'small' or especially 'tiny" and associate him with Young or Garland who both measured 6-0.5 at different events compared to 6-2.0 for Fox size wise. Bigger wignspan also, +3 on Young and + 1.5 on Garland. Size wise he's closer to Derrick White than Young and Garland are to him

High volume shooter? Yes. Tiny? No.

[MannyIsGod]

DJM is not a better defender than Fox.

[tbdog]

I just see Castle as a contributor to a championship team. He might never be as good as Fox. But he'll have such a good career. He does not play as a rookie. I don't see Castle getting added for Fox.

[CGD]

I just see Castle as a contributor to a championship team. He might never be as good as Fox. But he'll have such a good career. He does not play as a rookie. I don't see Castle getting added for Fox.

He’s a winner. Derrick White vibes, but with more physical gifts.

[paperboy77]

the problem with losing devin is that this team is not exactly loaded with scorers so who becomes the 3rd option on this team? i would prefer a scenario where devin is that 3rd option, which is where i think he would do better at. i think it's all a moot point though because the kings are going to ask for way too many 1st rounders. if fox gets traded, it will probably be to the rockets.

Why to the Rockets? Is it because our FO have no guts to pull the trigger?

[spurraider21]

tbh this isnt outlandish at all. only giving away 1 unprotected pick in this scenario.

1874992907654234162

[Leetonidas]

I think Castle and Fox can coexist. Get it done Brian

[CGD]

Why to the Rockets? Is it because our FO have no guts to pull the trigger?

Under Ime, the rockets have shown a desire to accelerate their timeline. It’s worked for them so far. I def can see them being less precious about their youngster than the Spurs. They also have many more than us (basically we only have Sochan and Castle).

[itzsoweezee]

tbh this isnt outlandish at all. only giving away 1 unprotected pick in this scenario.

1874992907654234162

Three first round picks + a lottery pick seems pretty outlandish to me. And if I’m the spurs, I’m using San Antonio’s picks in a trade rather than Atlanta’s

[tonight...you]

Klutch is likely the source, the noise all wrapped in one.
Agreed

[itzsoweezee]

I don't disagree that the Spurs in general may not be looking for a high price player now, and I have never been too high on Makannen

But I don't think agree with calling Fox 'small' or especially 'tiny" and associate him with Young or Garland who both measured 6-0.5 at different events compared to 6-2.0 for Fox size wise. Bigger wignspan also, +3 on Young and + 1.5 on Garland. Size wise he's closer to Derrick White than Young and Garland are to him

High volume shooter? Yes. Tiny? No.

And Fox is not a no-defense guy. He’s not an all-nba defender, but he can definitely guard point guards.

[spurraider21]

Three first round picks + a lottery pick seems pretty outlandish to me. And if I’m the spurs, I’m using San Antonio’s picks in a trade rather than Atlanta’s
its not 3 firsts though

2031 is just undoing a swap. so its really 2 firsts, one of which is protected from chicago. in 2031 we'd still have our own pick + the wolves unprotected pick

[Leetonidas]

Three first round picks + a lottery pick seems pretty outlandish to me. And if I’m the spurs, I’m using San Antonio’s picks in a trade rather than Atlanta’s

Seems like pretty fair value for a player of Fox's caliber. If anything it's an underpay

[spurraider21]

Seems like pretty fair value for a player of Fox's caliber. If anything it's an underpay
yeah feelsl like fair or underpay to me as well. also nice to dump keldon while still retaining zollins' soon to be expiring deal

[itzsoweezee]

its not 3 firsts though

2031 is just undoing a swap. so its really 2 firsts, one of which is protected from chicago. in 2031 we'd still have our own pick + the wolves unprotected pick

Good point about 2031. Still, I’d much rather ship off Vassell than Castle.

[itzsoweezee]

Seems like pretty fair value for a player of Fox's caliber. If anything it's an underpay

I don’t think Sacramento is going to get anywhere close to this type of package. Fox/Klutch can basically pick their destination. There’s not going to be anything like an auction here wit Fox’s contract nearly up

[spurraider21]

Good point about 2031. Still, I’d much rather ship off Vassell than Castle.
im pretty split on them. vassell's poor play this year has really soured me on him. i'd been a big defender of his, at points hopeful he'd be good enough to be a #2 offensively, and thought his extension was a no brainer

but man... his defense is STILL abysmal, and we're a long ways from the 22-23 excuse of having to preserve his energy for offensive creation. he's just a bad defender, and his offense is very come-and-go. if he was consistently putting up a reasonably efficient 20+ without being a tunnel-visioned scorer, i'd look past the defense.

with that said, he's still a very good shooter, and while Fox has become a reasonable shooter, he's not exactly a spacer. we are already dealing with sochan's lack of shooting. wemby's ridiculous spacing from the 5 spot allows us to get away with some crap, but looking at a future lineup including an average shooting Fox, below average shooting Castle, and non-shooting Sochan just seems bad.

[The Truth #6]

Devin is somehow a good shooter who also takes bad shots. He and Keldon seem like products of the tanking team mentality that Pop created to get Wemby. Well, at least we have Wemby. Seems that players and even clutch are invested in getting players to San Antonio. That will, of course take a lot of draft picks to make happen eventually. But it also means we shouldn't be so desperate to continue to overpay our homegrown talent.

[heyheymymy]

I like the Fox idea for once when I disliked all the Trae Young type suggestions before but it's going to be difficult for me to let Vassell go in a deal to get Fox.

I think I ultimately can consider letting Vassell go but no way am I letting Castle go for Fox. No way.

[exstatic]

a) Yeah I agree that Castle would likely have to be part of the deal

b) Like Dejounte, Fox only has one all star appearance and he was also an injury replacement just like Dejounte was. Do we want to make our version of the Atlanta DeJounte trade?

Yes you can only speculate on Castles career going forward but we have Chris Paul to bridge that gap and give us time to evaluate.

The difference being that Fox also made an All NBA team that year, which is a higher bar to clear.

[The Truth #6]

Sacramento just fired their coach to make Fox happy, so I doubt they trade him right away. Granted, they make dumb choices. If they are trading Fox, why fire Brown also?

We probably won't get Fox. But we might get Brown in some capacity. Just saying.

[exstatic]

I think Castle and Fox can coexist. Get it done Brian

Did you not see Castle outbound in the trade?

[exstatic]

Sacramento just fired their coach to make Fox happy, so I doubt they trade him right away. Granted, they make dumb choices. If they are trading Fox, why fire Brown also?

We probably won't get Fox. But we might get Brown in some capacity. Just saying.

Sacramento’s owner both thought that it was worth trading an All Star big man for Buddy Hield, who he thought would be Curry II, and that an NBA team should run an offense like his daughters basketball team, where you play defense with 4 players, and leave one near mid court to leak out. They’re easily dumb enough to think that firing Brown would end things.

[Leetonidas]

Did you not see Castle outbound in the trade?

Well thats one proposed iteration obviously but I'm just saying if we can keep Castle and ship Vassell out instead I'm all for it. If it cost us Castle though I would be sad but I'd still do it tbh

[Leetonidas]

I don’t think Sacramento is going to get anywhere close to this type of package. Fox/Klutch can basically pick their destination. There’s not going to be anything like an auction here wit Fox’s contract nearly up

Disagree. Fox is a legit all star and borderline all NBA caliber player, he will fetch a hefty price. If role players like Rudy Gobert and Mikal Bridges are fetching 4+ picks I guarantee you Fox will net a similar return

Then again I could be wrong because the Kings front office is complete trash :lol

[objective]

tbh this isnt outlandish at all. only giving away 1 unprotected pick in this scenario.

1874992907654234162

Too much with Castle to me. Not even a big Castle guy, I just don't like moving a #4 who has not been a disappointment at that high a pick for 1.5 years of Fox, Vassell?

Fine. Sochan? Fine.

Rockets might include Reed Sheppard, who I loved in the draft, but it's a fact that he hasn't done anything this year. Sure, he hasn't had the opportunities, but I wouldn't rank him above Castle in a prospect trade value list.

[itzsoweezee]

Disagree. Fox is a legit all star and borderline all NBA caliber player, he will fetch a hefty price. If role players like Rudy Gobert and Mikal Bridges are fetching 4+ picks I guarantee you Fox will net a similar return

Then again I could be wrong because the Kings front office is complete trash :lol

I could be wrong, but neither Bridges nor Gobert were coming up on the end of their contract. Whoever’s trading for Fox will want him to confirm he’s going to extend with them. If Fox/Klutch want to go to San Antonio, then other teams aren’t going to offer a bunch of assets for a rental.

[Seventyniner]

When will Fox be eligible to sign an extension? His contract status and future demands will be a big part of how much a team is willing to give up for him. Selling the farm to get Fox and then losing him after next season would be a colossal waste of resources.

[The Truth #6]

Sacramento’s owner both thought that it was worth trading an All Star big man for Buddy Hield, who he thought would be Curry II, and that an NBA team should run an offense like his daughters basketball team, where you play defense with 4 players, and leave one near mid court to leak out. They’re easily dumb enough to think that firing Brown would end things.

They are probably multiple sides to this all acting stupidly, I get that. And this conflict of interests leads to this chaos. Owners: win games. Fox: I don't like the coach telling me to be a real superstar and try harder. FO: maybe this will buy us another two years of salary. Klutch: how do we get the biggest contract.

Sure, it's a mess.

But before trading for Fox, I thiyit would be good to know more about what went down with he and Brown.

[objective]

He already turned down an extension

Luckily because he wasn't traded from his drafted team in the first 4 seasons, he will not be eligible for a Supermax as I understand things.

[spurraider21]

Too much with Castle to me. Not even a big Castle guy, I just don't like moving a #4 who has not been a disappointment at that high a pick for 1.5 years of Fox, Vassell?

Fine. Sochan? Fine.

Rockets might include Reed Sheppard, who I loved in the draft, but it's a fact that he hasn't done anything this year. Sure, he hasn't had the opportunities, but I wouldn't rank him above Castle in a prospect trade value list.
well you wouldnt do this deal for 1.5 years of fox. the expectation is he is re-signed/extended

[scott]

Kings have started winning under Doug Christie but have a tough schedule coming up. The next 10 games or so will play a pretty big role in what they decide to do. If you want Fox, hope for a complete meltdown and lots of losses.

[BatManu20]

I go back and forth in this tbh. While I like the idea of adding Fox because we desperately need another big time talent to help Wemby, it’s hard for me to include Castle into that package tbh. He just turned 20 years old and has a pretty high ceiling. Once that 3-point shot starts falling consistently, it’s going to open up the rest of his game and he’s going to be a damn good two-way player for years to come imo.

With that said, not sure the Kings do any deal with us that doesn’t include Castle at this point, especially with Vassell tanking his trade value this season.

[BatManu20]

I’m also interested in Devin Booker tbh. Suns are currently 15-17 and the 11th Seed in the West. They’re going to try and blow it up after this season imo. KD is getting old and injury prone, and the Bradley Beal trade has been a disaster for them. They have almost no draft capital in the near future due to all these horrendous trades they’ve made to try to pair these guys together. It’s clearly not working, and I think they’re going to hit the reset button before long to acquire as many young players and draft picks as possible tbh.

Spurs should be on the phone seeing what it would take to get Booker, who is 28 and in the prime of his career, and has 3 years left on his deal after this season. Would give Wemby the elite backcourt scorer/shooter that he desperately needs and they’d immediately be one of the best 1-2 tandems in the league. Might be a long shot, but it’s definitely worth a phone call with PHX brass.

[DAF86]

I’m also interested in Devin Booker tbh. Suns are currently 15-17 and the 11th Seed in the West. They’re going to try and blow it up after this season imo. KD is getting old and injury prone, and the Bradley Beal trade has been a disaster for them. They have almost no draft capital in the near future due to all these horrendous trades they’ve made to try to pair these guys together. It’s clearly not working, and I think they’re going to hit the reset button before long to acquire as many young players and draft picks as possible tbh.

Spurs should be on the phone seeing what it would take to get Booker, who is 28 and in the prime of his career, and has 3 years left on his deal after this season. Would give Wemby the elite backcourt scorer/shooter that he desperately needs and they’d immediately be one of the best 1-2 tandems in the league. Might be a long shot, but it’s definitely worth a phone call with PHX brass.

These are the type of things I talk about with LeBowen when I say you never know who will be available 6 months from now, tbh.

[100%duncan]

These are the type of things I talk about with LeBowen when I say you never know who will be available 6 months from now, tbh.

Its not really rocket science. There may always be someone better available in x months and/or years. But at some point, you need to pull the trigger considering 1. Your own timeline, 2. Your competition in getting that player 3. The possibility of that player actually being available, etc etc.

It’s why some (not saying you), are corny to talk about this topic. Because they keep saying they dont want the X player available (Markannen, Fox) and yet they cant give any realistic answer as to who they are actually thinking of, even notwithstanding the possibility of that player being available realistically.


For the record, I am very high on Booker but I also dont think he’s a realistic target which is why Im on the get Fox boat.

[DAF86]

Its not really rocket science. There may always be someone better available in x months and/or years. But at some point, you need to pull the trigger considering 1. Your own timeline, 2. Your competition in getting that player 3. The possibility of that player actually being available, etc etc.

It’s why some (not saying you), are corny to talk about this topic. Because they keep saying they dont want the X player available (Markannen, Fox) and yet they cant give any realistic answer as to who they are actually thinking of, even notwithstanding the possibility of that player being available realistically.


For the record, I am very high on Booker but I also dont think he’s a realistic target which is why Im on the get Fox boat.

But that's the thing, Wemby is fucking 20 years old. I don't think folks asking to be patient should be seen as "corny", and I'm saying this as someone that was fully in the Markkanen train and has slowly gotten into the Fox one.

Yeah, I understand that Wemby is a top 10 player already, and the having multiple windows angle, and wanting to take advantage of Wemby's rookie contract. Those are all compelling arguments, but you know what's also a compelling argument? Not wanting to shoot your load too early and setting Wemby's window back years because you made a costly mistake.

Fox isn't one of those can't miss guys that you know for sure would make it work. Corny would be for folks to say no to a Luka Doncic trade if he were to ever be available. Corny were the motherfcukers that were against adding CP3 back in the days whenever someone brought him up in previous years. People saying "nope, I'm good. Not Spurs material" to all-time great players is what I consider corny, not having reservations about a one time all-star 6'3" skinny guard with below average shooting, tbh.

[LeBowen]

These are the type of things I talk about with LeBowen (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=54457) when I say you never know who will be available 6 months from now, tbh.

And as 100%duncan (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8300) says, that's why I always mention all the other variables.
ability
availability (injury record)
positional and role fit
age (I've got nothing against going for older players, but I'm not giving up a lot for them)
contract length (got to be careful not to overlap too many max deals, that's why for example Markkanen would've been a perfect)
contract demands (can't overpay average players)
asking price (the most important thing, very few players are worth trading a farm for)

While I absolutely agree that Booker would be a perfect fity ability and role wise, he's not a realistic target.
Suns are in a horrible position and they'd (rightfully so) demand everything we got for Booker because they can't tank even if they trade him.
That's why I think he'll either end up on the Rockets or won't be traded at all. No other team makes sense.

Also, if Booker gets traded to the Rockets, that means Suns will hit a reset button and hopefully Pop/CP3 can work their magic and we get KD.
I'm sure he has at least two more legit years after this one and he'd be a perfect mentor for Wemby. I think he'll definitely play until he's 40.
Obviously only if the asking price is right, as I mentioned in age variable.

[mystargtr34]

I like the angle of looking at Wembys career as having multiple phases, like Duncan had with end of prime DRob from 97-2001, then solo Timmy 2001-2004, then the Big 3 2004-2011, then the beautiful game 2011-2016.

Maybe the best path for Wemby and the Spurs for the first winning phase will be to pair him with an end of prime all star like Durant.

Having said that if you can get a younger star like a Devin Booker you do that he’s unrealistic cause if the Suns blow it up they’ll trade him to Houston for all their picks back.

Guys like Fox and Markannen are more attainable but will still cost a shitload.

[DAF86]

I like the angle of looking at Wembys career as having multiple phases, like Duncan had with end of prime DRob from 97-2001, then solo Timmy 2001-2004, then the Big 3 2004-2011, then the beautiful game 2011-2016.

Maybe the best path for Wemby and the Spurs for the first winning phase will be to pair him with an end of prime all star like Durant.

Having said that if you can get a younger star like a Devin Booker you do that he’s unrealistic cause if the Suns blow it up they’ll trade him to Houston for all their picks back.

Guys like Fox and Markannen are more attainable but will still cost a shitload.

My dream scenario is pairing Curry, Lebron and KD in vet min deals, tbh. :lol

[MannyIsGod]

I don't think Castle is untradable and I would be 100% OK including him in a deal for Fox depending on the deal. The kid has shown some signs, but he's FAR from a sure thing. The chances that he ever becomes more than an upper end role player are actually pretty low, IMO. This is not to say he can't get there, but I think a lot of you are really overhyping the kid who doesn't have a very good shot.

[LeBowen]

I don't think Castle is untradable and I would be 100% OK including him in a deal for Fox depending on the deal. The kid has shown some signs, but he's FAR from a sure thing. The chances that he ever becomes more than an upper end role player are actually pretty low, IMO. This is not to say he can't get there, but I think a lot of you are really overhyping the kid who doesn't have a very good shot.

He's untradeable because Spurs won't trade a rookie a few months into the season. A rookie they probably followed for years and was their #1 target.
Kings won't blow it up, they'll want some immediate help.

My opening offer would either be:
salary dump Keldon+Collins+Hawks picks+Kings swap returned
or
Devin+Tre+1 Hawks pick+Kings swap returned

They can't ask for more because Fox won't sign an extension, very few teams have assets to offer and he'll be on an expiring deal this summer.

[Dex]

I don't think Castle is untradable and I would be 100% OK including him in a deal for Fox depending on the deal. The kid has shown some signs, but he's FAR from a sure thing. The chances that he ever becomes more than an upper end role player are actually pretty low, IMO. This is not to say he can't get there, but I think a lot of you are really overhyping the kid who doesn't have a very good shot.

Agreed. I really like Castle, but this board has a habit of getting enamored with any young talent that shows signs of promise. It happened with Dejounte, and Lonnie, and Derrick, and Primo, and Vassell, and now Castle.

So far...only two of those have really panned out (for various reasons) in Murray and White. Obviously too early to tell with Castle and I would PREFER to have a chance to see what we got, but at a certain point you gotta make moves for known talent instead of hoping these guys don't turn into pumpkins.

And to bring in talent, you usually have to give up talent. I'm on the fence whether Fox is THAT guy...but you also aren't getting someone like him with a bunch of roster filler and 2RPs.

[Leetonidas]

Agreed. I really like Castle, but this board has a habit of getting enamored with any young talent that shows signs of promise. It happened with Dejounte, and Lonnie, and Derrick, and Primo, and Vassell, and now Castle.

So far...only two of those have really panned out (for various reasons) in Murray and White. Obviously too early to tell with Castle and I would PREFER to have a chance to see what we got, but at a certain point you gotta make moves for known talent instead of hoping these guys don't turn into pumpkins.

And to bring in talent, you usually have to give up talent. I'm on the fence whether Fox is THAT guy...but you also aren't getting someone like him with a bunch of roster filler and 2RPs.

Exactly:lol obviously Castle is better but if Lonnie was a rookie this season people here would be against including him in any trade

[timtonymanu]

Don’t forget Keldon his rookie season in the COVID bubble. Hell, people were campaigning him to be an all star when he was averaging nearly 20 points a game at one point. :lol

FWIW, Castle has already looked more impressive than any of those guys mentioned did in their rookie season as raw as he is. But I agree he’s not untouchable either.

[exstatic]

Castle is off the table unless Fox extends as part of the trade. You don’t push all the chips for a 1.5 year rental.

[MannyIsGod]

Dude you're not doing any trade unless Fox extends.

[Bruno]

I'm really not sold on a Fox and Castle backcourt mostly because of a lack of shooting.

Castle, because he isn't a good shooter, will be a poor off the ball player. If you put him alongside a player as ball dominant as Fox, he will be pigeonholed into a role where he won't shine. If Spurs truly believe in Castle, they shouldn't add a player like Fox to Spurs. Fox will hindered Castle development.

So, between a trade like Castle + 1 first round pick for Fox and a a trade like Vassell + 3 first round picks for Fox, the Castle package might be the best one for Spurs.

[rjv]

I go back and forth in this tbh. While I like the idea of adding Fox because we desperately need another big time talent to help Wemby, it’s hard for me to include Castle into that package tbh. He just turned 20 years old and has a pretty high ceiling. Once that 3-point shot starts falling consistently, it’s going to open up the rest of his game and he’s going to be a damn good two-way player for years to come imo.

With that said, not sure the Kings do any deal with us that doesn’t include Castle at this point, especially with Vassell tanking his trade value this season.

no back and forth for me on this one; hell no to including Castle! not only do we lose a rookie with great promise but also the flexibility for a bigger free agent name at more appropriate point in wemby's timeline.

[LeBowen]

no back and forth for me on this one; hell no to including Castle!

Agreed.


the flexibility for a bigger free agent name at more appropriate point in wemby's timeline.

The thing is that we can't look at Wemby as someone who's not yet on a winning timeline. He just hit #5 in MVP race and he'll surely be a legit MVP candidate next season.
It won't matter that he's only 21 when the goal is to win.
If we can get Fox for a fair deal and then have him under contract for his age 28-33 seasons, we do it. Wemby will be just 27 at the end of Fox's max extension.

[spurraider21]

Agreed. I really like Castle, but this board has a habit of getting enamored with any young talent that shows signs of promise. It happened with Dejounte, and Lonnie, and Derrick, and Primo, and Vassell, and now Castle.

So far...only two of those have really panned out (for various reasons) in Murray and White. Obviously too early to tell with Castle and I would PREFER to have a chance to see what we got, but at a certain point you gotta make moves for known talent instead of hoping these guys don't turn into pumpkins.

And to bring in talent, you usually have to give up talent. I'm on the fence whether Fox is THAT guy...but you also aren't getting someone like him with a bunch of roster filler and 2RPs.
well dejounte actually did end up becoming really freaking good, at least with the spurs. on the other hand, white did end up becoming really good, just didnt peak until after he left

lonnie was always seen as "potential" but i dont think anybody on ST deluded themselves into thinking he had proven himself as a viable starter. primo literally never showed anything, i will never understand this. as a rookie he was below average in just about everything. shooting, passing, handling, defense... the only thing he showed was decent touch near the rim. other htan that it was pure theorycrafting because he was somewhat tall for a point guard. then he was very disappointing in his second summer league/preseason and didnt look any better. maybe the guy had a legit NBA future ahead of him, but it wasnt based on anything we had seen thus far

i think right now castle is somewhere between lonnie and white in terms of my expectations. lonnie was clearly a good enough scorer to hang in the NBA, even until the very end. i like him and wouldnt trade him as part a deal for a Cam Johnson type or even Lauri. but if you are getting a bona-fide star, top 25 player type in Fox, then yeah i'd have him on the table even if he's not in my opening offer

[Kevin]

Castle VS Dev is an interesting question from the Kings perspective too. They already have DMR Sabonis and Murray so they might prefer a win now player like Dev who fits much better next to DMR. Castle and DDR don’t fit either because of lack of shooting and on ball dominance. Castle’s two way promise is too much for me to pass on if I am the Kings.

Kings Get:
Castle
KJ
Tre
26 Hawks pick
Tear up the 31 swap.

[spurraider21]

yeah its an interesting quesiton for both clubs

offensively, the idea of adding Castle to a group that already includes DeRozan/Sabonis sounds bad, particularly when their other shooters, Huerter and Murray, have fallen off, and they recently traded away a solid shooter in Barnes. on the other hand, adding a defender as bad as Vassell to a group including Monk/DeRozan/Sabonis also seems bad. the DeRozan acquisition was predictably bad, much like Beal to Phoenix.

their best bet might be to just pull the plug on Monk as a starter and have him go back to his super 6th man role. Keon Ellis is their one solid defensive guard and he's been shooting straight this year as well. maybe you they can pair him with Castle and at least have a fiesty defensive backcourt to help cover those deficiencies.

[baseline bum]

I’m also interested in Devin Booker tbh. Suns are currently 15-17 and the 11th Seed in the West. They’re going to try and blow it up after this season imo. KD is getting old and injury prone, and the Bradley Beal trade has been a disaster for them. They have almost no draft capital in the near future due to all these horrendous trades they’ve made to try to pair these guys together. It’s clearly not working, and I think they’re going to hit the reset button before long to acquire as many young players and draft picks as possible tbh.

Spurs should be on the phone seeing what it would take to get Booker, who is 28 and in the prime of his career, and has 3 years left on his deal after this season. Would give Wemby the elite backcourt scorer/shooter that he desperately needs and they’d immediately be one of the best 1-2 tandems in the league. Might be a long shot, but it’s definitely worth a phone call with PHX brass.

They'd be morons to trade Booker anywhere but Houston given the Rockets control their 2027 and 2029 picks and that's going to be one dogshit team then.

[baseline bum]

primo literally never showed anything

I see what you did there

[spurraider21]

They'd be morons to trade Booker anywhere but Houston given the Rockets control their 2027 and 2029 picks and that's going to be one dogshit team then.
this. i still think the chances of booker getting traded in the next 3 years is sub 10%, but if he does get traded, im about 75% sure Houston would be the destination

[baseline bum]

Also, if Booker gets traded to the Rockets, that means Suns will hit a reset button and hopefully Pop/CP3 can work their magic and we get KD.
I'm sure he has at least two more legit years after this one and he'd be a perfect mentor for Wemby. I think he'll definitely play until he's 40.
Obviously only if the asking price is right, as I mentioned in age variable.

Sochan, salary filler, our 2026 with the ATL swap, and our 2027 would probably be my best offer. Though kind of tempted to pull the 26 and replace it with a worse pick like the 28 with the top 1 protected Boston swap given KD is 36 and injury prone.

[baseline bum]

Castle VS Dev is an interesting question from the Kings perspective too. They already have DMR Sabonis and Murray so they might prefer a win now player like Dev who fits much better next to DMR. Castle and DDR don’t fit either because of lack of shooting and on ball dominance. Castle’s two way promise is too much for me to pass on if I am the Kings.

Kings Get:
Castle
KJ
Tre
26 Hawks pick
Tear up the 31 swap.

If I'm moving Steph I think Tre is a must keep given CP3's injury history.

[ginobilized]

And as 100%duncan (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8300)
Also, if Booker gets traded to the Rockets, that means Suns will hit a reset button and hopefully Pop/CP3 can work their magic and we get KD.
I'm sure he has at least two more legit years after this one and he'd be a perfect mentor for Wemby. I think he'll definitely play until he's 40.
Obviously only if the asking price is right, as I mentioned in age variable.

I'd love to have KD, he'd be a killer on the Spurs. One thing that I've been noticing with Wemby of late is that he is finding his own identity. Last season, it looked like he was just trying to be a 7'5" KD. That's obviously who he's studied the most.
It could probably go either way, but, I'd err on letting Wemby create his own best version of himself. Wilt had no mentor. That's the closest to Wemby in terms of dominance.
I wouldn't be against it, but, with the caveat of playing with your hero doesn't always work out.

[rjv]

The thing is that we can't look at Wemby as someone who's not yet on a winning timeline. He just hit #5 in MVP race and he'll surely be a legit MVP candidate next season.
It won't matter that he's only 21 when the goal is to win.
If we can get Fox for a fair deal and then have him under contract for his age 28-33 seasons, we do it. Wemby will be just 27 at the end of Fox's max extension.

the timeline i am thinking of is the following summer when some other big name free agents could be demanding trades. we have to be careful to stay away from that second apron before then.

[Kevin]

If I'm moving Steph I think Tre is a must keep given CP3's injury history.

We’re getting Fox back plus matching salary are another factor. You’d have to include one of Barnes or Zollins for matching salaries not sure the Kings want that so Tre goes.

[LeBowen]

the timeline i am thinking of is the following summer when some other big name free agents could be demanding trades. we have to be careful to stay away from that second apron before then.

Been over it many times, there are very few realistic targets for us, if any.
As for the salaries, next season's cap is projected to be at $155M, luxury tax at $187M, 1st apron at $195M and 2nd apron at $207M.

We're at $129M for the next season as of now, $26M under the cap.
Keldon and Collins combine for $35.5M.
Devin will get $27M.
Branham, Wesley, Sidy and Bassey combine for $16.5M.

That's easily moveable $79M, players we don't need whatsoever except Devin.
Barnes is solid, but he's also moveable, $19M.
$124M under the cap total, with 2 incoming FRPs.

We can get even two all-stars if needed.

It would be awful not to maximize Wemby's rookie deal, we'll have an MVP candidate on a bargain for 2 more seasons after this one.

Call me crazy, but I think that with Fox, another 3-D wing and a legit backup big we could easily go against anyone in the Conference except OKC even this season.

[spurraider21]

If I'm moving Steph I think Tre is a must keep given CP3's injury history.
you're getting Fox who can handle big minutes (is playing 37mpg this year)

i still think wesley has been fine this year and could stand to get some minutes imo. we already guaranteed his deal for next year anyway so may as well give him some run if Paul goes down.

and theres always point sochan or point branham

[The Truth #6]

I'm still waiting for Point Mamu as our 5th stringer.

[baseline bum]

point branham

pls kill yourself

[itzsoweezee]

Agreed. I really like Castle, but this board has a habit of getting enamored with any young talent that shows signs of promise. It happened with Dejounte, and Lonnie, and Derrick, and Primo, and Vassell, and now Castle.

So far...only two of those have really panned out (for various reasons) in Murray and White. Obviously too early to tell with Castle and I would PREFER to have a chance to see what we got, but at a certain point you gotta make moves for known talent instead of hoping these guys don't turn into pumpkins.

And to bring in talent, you usually have to give up talent. I'm on the fence whether Fox is THAT guy...but you also aren't getting someone like him with a bunch of roster filler and 2RPs.

It’s not just that I’m enamored with castle as young spurs’ talent, but it’s the fact that he’s on a rookie contract. Building with rookie contracts is more important than ever under the new cba. People haven’t caught up to the reality of the constraints imposed by the aprons. You cannot give up a lottery pick in the first year of his rookie contract, especially when he has shown the ability to contribute right away. That the type of thing that poorly run teams do, and then they get stuck. Flexibility is more important than it’s ever been

[Atl Spur]

It’s not just that I’m enamored with castle as young spurs’ talent, but it’s the fact that he’s on a rookie contract. Building with rookie contracts is more important than ever under the new cba. People haven’t caught up to the reality of the constraints imposed by the aprons. You cannot give up a lottery pick in the first year of his rookie contract, especially when he has shown the ability to contribute right away. That the type of thing that poorly run teams do, and then they get stuck. Flexibility is more important than it’s ever been

^This

[Atl Spur]

If you ever hear about a San Antonio trade, it’s not a San Antonio trade! If this does happen I’d be shocked.

[rjv]

Been over it many times, there are very few realistic targets for us, if any.
As for the salaries, next season's cap is projected to be at $155M, luxury tax at $187M, 1st apron at $195M and 2nd apron at $207M.

We're at $129M for the next season as of now, $26M under the cap.
Keldon and Collins combine for $35.5M.
Devin will get $27M.
Branham, Wesley, Sidy and Bassey combine for $16.5M.

That's easily moveable $79M, players we don't need whatsoever except Devin.
Barnes is solid, but he's also moveable, $19M.
$124M under the cap total, with 2 incoming FRPs.

We can get even two all-stars if needed.

It would be awful not to maximize Wemby's rookie deal, we'll have an MVP candidate on a bargain for 2 more seasons after this one.

Call me crazy, but I think that with Fox, another 3-D wing and a legit backup big we could easily go against anyone in the Conference except OKC even this season.

if some team out there is crazy enough to take our garbage, and not ask for Castle our deplete our 1st round pick assets, then i'm all in. I just don't see that happening by this trade deadline.

[LeBowen]

if some team out there is crazy enough to take our garbage, and not ask for Castle our deplete our 1st round pick assets, then i'm all in. I just don't see that happening by this trade deadline.

Do I really need to list out draft selections over the past years?
And do I really need to repeat we have 13 FRPs and 4 more swaps in upcoming 7 drafts. And 18 SRPs?

Stop with the depleting assets thing, the only trades that would deplete our assets are trades for MVP candidates, not trades for players asking out with 1 year left on their deal.


Would you trade Lonnie, Samanic, Keldon, Vassell, Primo, Sochan, Branham and Wesley for Fox?
Those are our 8 FRPs before Wemby, including two lottery picks.

Those Hawks picks aren't going to be top10, so if you want to hold onto them, get yourself ready for another Branham, maybe Keldon if we're lucky.

[scott]

Its not really rocket science. There may always be someone better available in x months and/or years. But at some point, you need to pull the trigger considering 1. Your own timeline, 2. Your competition in getting that player 3. The possibility of that player actually being available, etc etc.

It’s why some (not saying you), are corny to talk about this topic. Because they keep saying they dont want the X player available (Markannen, Fox) and yet they cant give any realistic answer as to who they are actually thinking of, even notwithstanding the possibility of that player being available realistically.


For the record, I am very high on Booker but I also dont think he’s a realistic target which is why Im on the get Fox boat.


But that's the thing, Wemby is fucking 20 years old. I don't think folks asking to be patient should be seen as "corny", and I'm saying this as someone that was fully in the Markkanen train and has slowly gotten into the Fox one.

Yeah, I understand that Wemby is a top 10 player already, and the having multiple windows angle, and wanting to take advantage of Wemby's rookie contract. Those are all compelling arguments, but you know what's also a compelling argument? Not wanting to shoot your load too early and setting Wemby's window back years because you made a costly mistake.

Fox isn't one of those can't miss guys that you know for sure would make it work. Corny would be for folks to say no to a Luka Doncic trade if he were to ever be available. Corny were the motherfcukers that were against adding CP3 back in the days whenever someone brought him up in previous years. People saying "nope, I'm good. Not Spurs material" to all-time great players is what I consider corny, not having reservations about a one time all-star 6'3" skinny guard with below average shooting, tbh.

Really fantastically said by both of you, IMO.

I think what gives me solace to make a big move, DAF86, is that it is almost impossible to "shoot our load" because our "load" is so massive. We can afford to make a less-than-perfect move (assuming it still works to some degree) because our warchest is large enough to recover, IMO. We heard a lot of talk during the Trae rumors (which I was never fully on board with going for) of "what if it doesn't work out?" I think that's a fair question, but what does "not working out" look like? It's not like someone like Trae or Fox or Markkanen is going to devolve into a subpar player. Trae Young is 97th percentile in Crafted OPM this year, and this is a "down" year for him. Likewise, Markkanen's stats are down on a bad team, but he's still 94th percentile in Crafted OPM this year. (Note: both of these guys are very bad defenders measured by Crafted DPM, but you know that going in). "Not working out" for them probably involves them still being very good players with some salvage value.

And as 100%duncan points out, at the end of the day you have to pull the trigger at some point. I think part of the problem is that a lot of our warchest is coming due now, and I don't love the Return on Investment when you have to punt them into the future. I've been on this train since this happened, but I did not like the return we got for #8 last year. I'm okay with the decision to not make that pick, but I don't like the return we got. IMO, the #8 pick in any year should return more than a swap and a pick (with a roughly 73% chance of being a worst pick if we just assume random variance) 7 years from now. I shudder at the thought of us having to similarly punt another pick (or two if CHI conveys) this year. I feel like we've got to get a move on, otherwise the moment will pass us by.

I would LOVE Booker. He's probably in the top 3 of guys (outside of superstars like Giannis, Luka, SGA, Ant, etc) who I would want. Also because Book 1's are some of my favorite every day shoes and some Spurs colorways would be siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick :lol. But I don't see it happening. If Booker moves, it's all aligned to be to the Rockets. Stranger things have happened though.

[scott]

He's untradeable because Spurs won't trade a rookie a few months into the season. A rookie they probably followed for years and was their #1 target.
Kings won't blow it up, they'll want some immediate help.

My opening offer would either be:
salary dump Keldon+Collins+Hawks picks+Kings swap returned
or
Devin+Tre+1 Hawks pick+Kings swap returned

They can't ask for more because Fox won't sign an extension, very few teams have assets to offer and he'll be on an expiring deal this summer.

Just my opinion, but I think you need to add at least one more pick to the Devin offer and probably at least two more to the Keldon offer.

With that said, I'd do it, and I'd focus on front loading with this year's picks. This draft is looking weaker and weaker after about the top 8. On Vecenie's last podcast he said he's having difficulty even finding guys worth a lotto pick, and it just gets rougher from there.

[scott]

well dejounte actually did end up becoming really freaking good, at least with the spurs. on the other hand, white did end up becoming really good, just didnt peak until after he left

lonnie was always seen as "potential" but i dont think anybody on ST deluded themselves into thinking he had proven himself as a viable starter. primo literally never showed anything, i will never understand this. as a rookie he was below average in just about everything. shooting, passing, handling, defense... the only thing he showed was decent touch near the rim. other htan that it was pure theorycrafting because he was somewhat tall for a point guard. then he was very disappointing in his second summer league/preseason and didnt look any better. maybe the guy had a legit NBA future ahead of him, but it wasnt based on anything we had seen thus far

i think right now castle is somewhere between lonnie and white in terms of my expectations. lonnie was clearly a good enough scorer to hang in the NBA, even until the very end. i like him and wouldnt trade him as part a deal for a Cam Johnson type or even Lauri. but if you are getting a bona-fide star, top 25 player type in Fox, then yeah i'd have him on the table even if he's not in my opening offer

Speaking of Lonnie Walker... I've got some really Hard To Swallow Pills for everyone...

https://i.ibb.co/ZWD5bZK/dev-v-lonnie.png

[rjv]

Do I really need to list out draft selections over the past years?
And do I really need to repeat we have 13 FRPs and 4 more swaps in upcoming 7 drafts. And 18 SRPs?

Stop with the depleting assets thing, the only trades that would deplete our assets are trades for MVP candidates, not trades for players asking out with 1 year left on their deal.


Would you trade Lonnie, Samanic, Keldon, Vassell, Primo, Sochan, Branham and Wesley for Fox?
Those are our 8 FRPs before Wemby, including two lottery picks.

Those Hawks picks aren't going to be top10, so if you want to hold onto them, get yourself ready for another Branham, maybe Keldon if we're lucky.

they’re trade assets but by your logic they’re trash assets. And yet, someone out there wants them.

[LeBowen]

they’re trade assets but by your logic they’re trash assets. And yet, someone out there wants them.

Those assets aren't worth the same to everyone.
And the players aren't worth the same to everyone.

Fox is worth way more than Kings can get for him if he's traded to a team he wants to play for and signs an extension with.
His value is significantly lowered because he wants out and his contract is over after next season.

Kings also really want their swap back.


Just my opinion, but I think you need to add at least one more pick to the Devin offer and probably at least two more to the Keldon offer.

With that said, I'd do it, and I'd focus on front loading with this year's picks. This draft is looking weaker and weaker after about the top 8. On Vecenie's last podcast he said he's having difficulty even finding guys worth a lotto pick, and it just gets rougher from there.


Alright then something like:
Devin
Tre (they can either extend him or get some SRPs, maybe Wesley instead if they're interested)
SAC 20131 swap returned
Best of '25 ATL/SAS
'25 CHI
Best of '27 ATL/SAS

That's 3 picks, their own swap returned, a decent backup point guard and a young shooter they need on a 5 year deal.
They won't get a better offer.

I think they can get Hunter with those Hawks picks if they want to.

[Leetonidas]

Speaking of Lonnie Walker... I've got some really Hard To Swallow Pills for everyone...

https://i.ibb.co/ZWD5bZK/dev-v-lonnie.png

The highest paid player in Spurs history right now :lol Jesus christ

[poopbox]

Speaking of Lonnie Walker... I've got some really Hard To Swallow Pills for everyone...

https://i.ibb.co/ZWD5bZK/dev-v-lonnie.png

I died a little bit looking at this chart :depressed

[scott]

Those assets aren't worth the same to everyone.
And the players aren't worth the same to everyone.

Fox is worth way more than Kings can get for him if he's traded to a team he wants to play for and signs an extension with.
His value is significantly lowered because he wants out and his contract is over after next season.

Kings also really want their swap back.




Alright then something like:
Devin
Tre (they can either extend him or get some SRPs, maybe Wesley instead if they're interested)
SAC 20131 swap returned
Best of '25 ATL/SAS
'25 CHI
Best of '27 ATL/SAS

That's 3 picks, their own swap returned, a decent backup point guard and a young shooter they need on a 5 year deal.
They won't get a better offer.

I think they can get Hunter with those Hawks picks if they want to.

I think that looks about right, maybe a slight overpay. Maybe the 27 can turn into a swap (SAC has the right to swap with the best of ATL/SA)?

I'd do it, but I'm a Devin hater... so my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt :lol

[LeBowen]

I'd do it, but I'm a Devin hater... so my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt :lol

I think that Devin's situation is trickier than most people realize.
Yeah, with the rising cap those $27M a year aren't an issue, but if he doesn't get his shit together until the rest of the season he'll lose most of his value.
Kings are one of those clueless franchises that probably haven't caught up to the fact that he's not actually that good.

Spurs either trade him while he still has value or gamble he'll actually make significant improvement.
Because if we don't trade him now or this summer at the latest and he doesn't get his shit together, we got another Keldon on our hands. Difference being that Keldon actually served his tank commander purpose.

[BatManu20]

Speaking of Lonnie Walker... I've got some really Hard To Swallow Pills for everyone...

https://i.ibb.co/ZWD5bZK/dev-v-lonnie.png

Christ. Hurry up and trade this asshole to Sacramento before they see this chart tbh :lol

[scott]

Christ. Hurry up and trade this asshole to Sacramento before they see this chart tbh :lol

Someone hack into the Kings' admin panel and add all these analytics websites to the blocked list :lol

[DPG21920]

I could see something like Vassell + Keldon + 2 Picks (CHI + Swap) for Fox and that’s about what I would do. Definitely and argument to pay Fox the Vassell/Keldon money so no issue that having it in Fox vs those two split, but then comes down to the picks.

[RC_Drunkford]

I'd trade for Fox, just depends on the package. Ideally we get him in the offseason when he only has 1 year left on his deal. I don't think the price would be that high, since he only has a year left and only teams he'd resign with would trade for him.

I definitely wouldn't trade Castle, since he's on a rookie deal and the same age as Wemby. If there's anybody on our roster considering his running mate for his whole career it would be Steph. I'm pretty confident that his shot will come around.

Regarding Fox, he's shooting 33% on 6 attempts, but shoots 38% when wide open. He plays for the Kings with Sabonis and DeRozan in the line up. Their spacing is terrible. One would think he should be able to up his percentages by 2-3% playing on a team with better spacing while also not being the 1st, but rather the 2nd option. Not to mention that he's been accused of coasting cause he's playing for a dumpster franchise.

The Mike Brown thing is overblown. Brown was publicly criticizing Fox in mutliple interviews, something Pop never really did with players. He also had some kind of beef with Sabonis, with Sabonis consistently refuting arguments that Brown made in interviews. Add him wanting to bring DeRozan off the bench and doing dumb shit like switching every pick & roll against the Spurs and there you go.

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, I'm ready. Fox has something to prove. The Kings are a loser franchise and they are blaming him for how terrible they are.

It's time.

[T Park]

the people who want to hoard picks fascinate me. dudes a legit all star, STUD and people are like "eh, dont want to give up TOO much for him" lol just insanity

[LeBowen]

the people who want to hoard picks fascinate me. dudes a legit all star, STUD and people are like "eh, dont want to give up TOO much for him" lol just insanity

They're still stuck in 00s mindset and think we can pull some more Tonys and Manus out of our asses with late picks.

[Duncan2177]

They're still stuck in 00s mindset and think we can pull some more Tonys and Manus out of our asses with late picks.

Yea, those days are gone.

[BatManu20]

I'm ready to trade for Fox so long as it doesn't involve Castle. I just don't think they'll even consider it without Castle unfortunately. This team desperately needs a reliable go-to scorer in the back court though, especially at the end of games.

[tbdog]

The Mike Brown thing is overblown. Brown was publicly criticizing Fox in mutliple interviews, something Pop never really did with players. He also had some kind of beef with Sabonis, with Sabonis consistently refuting arguments that Brown made in interviews. Add him wanting to bring DeRozan off the bench and doing dumb shit like switching every pick & roll against the Spurs and there you go.

Brown was on the hot seat and you can tell he was deflecting blame from desperation.

[timtonymanu]

If the Spurs continue to be in the top 10 out West, I would say be ready for standing pat. Would be nice to find some bench depth cause Keldon, Tre, and Collins are not them.

[BatManu20]

Kings about to win their 3rd game in a row since firing Mike Brown. Currently up 7 over Memphis with 2:50 min left in the 4th.

[objective]

Standing pat might be out of their hands if Paul decides he wants another try with a supposed contender. Lakers now have enough room under the apron and the need for an extra ball handler.

[BatManu20]

1875414145232990328

[tbdog]

Standing pat might be out of their hands if Paul decides he wants another try with a supposed contender. Lakers now have enough room under the apron and the need for an extra ball handler.

All reports from Paul's camp indicates he loves Spurs basketball.

[scott]

Kings starting to win games, and if that continues I don't see any way they trade Fox or that Fox asks for a trade. It's in Fox's best interest to win games with SAC and try to make All NBA so he can get that SuperMax.

[BatManu20]

Yea this upcoming stretch will be telling. It's pretty brutal. 8 of their next 12 games are:

@ Celtics
@ Bucks
@ Nuggets
@ Knicks
@ OKC
@ Minny

And then home games vs:

Rockets
Warriors

The other 4 easier teams sprinkled in there are the:

@ Bulls
vs. Wizards
@ Nets
@ Sixers

This will be a tough test for them. Will be interesting to see what their record looks like after this month. This stretch may very well decide De'Aaron Fox's future in Sacramento.

[rankingtear]

The reality is there are trades for all stars that work and that doesn't. FO and coaches go through it in more detail than eyetesters and highlight watchers and it still fails. You can't force trades that has no guarantee of working.

[exstatic]

Standing pat might be out of their hands if Paul decides he wants another try with a supposed contender. Lakers now have enough room under the apron and the need for an extra ball handler.

Lakers aren’t a contender for anything other than a play in spot, with or without CP3.

[exstatic]

Kings starting to win games, and if that continues I don't see any way they trade Fox or that Fox asks for a trade. It's in Fox's best interest to win games with SAC and try to make All NBA so he can get that SuperMax.

This season? Sure. But if he doesn’t make All NBA, I’m guessing the lesser bag might have him looking to greener pastures.

[scott]

This season? Sure. But if he doesn’t make All NBA, I’m guessing the lesser bag might have him looking to greener pastures.

I agree with you. There are really only 3 outcomes that occupy probably 90% of the probability:

1. Kings start winning games between now and the deadline, in which case Fox stays with SAC and makes All-NBA and signs a SuperMax extension
2. Kings start winning games between now and the deadline, in which case Fox stays with SAC and does not make All-NBA and gets traded this summer
3. Kings don't start winning games between now and the deadline, in which case SAC pulls the ripcord Fox gets traded before the deadline

The other possibilities are that he gets traded in the summer in Scenario 3 instead of at the deadline, and that he doesn't make All-NBA but extends with SAC this summer (probably the least likely scenario of them all)

[The Truth #6]

The Fox trade may have all been a mirage. A ploy to exert leverage for their FO to fire Brown. Fire him or trade me, that kind of thing. It's hard to know from the outside.

[scott]

The Fox trade may have all been a mirage. A ploy to exert leverage for their FO to fire Brown. Fire him or trade me, that kind of thing. It's hard to know from the outside.

I think it all goes hand-in-hand with what I mentioned above. For Fox to stay in SAC, one of two things has to happen: 1) he has to make AllNBA and get that supermax or 2) SAC has to be winning enough for him to feel like they can compete. And of course, #1 requires #2. SAC was spiraling and Brown had (reportedly) lost the locker room, so he had to go if #2 was going to even be a remote possibility.

[Mr. Body]

The Fox trade may have all been a mirage. A ploy to exert leverage for their FO to fire Brown. Fire him or trade me, that kind of thing. It's hard to know from the outside.

Hmm... not the sort of ploy Klutch is known for. Wait...

[baseline bum]

the people who want to hoard picks fascinate me. dudes a legit all star, STUD and people are like "eh, dont want to give up TOO much for him" lol just insanity

Especially when you can likely get Fox and still have a ton of remaining picks, as I'm guessing his trade value will be one of Vassell/Sochan/Castle plus two unprotected firsts plus salary filler plus ripping up the 2031 SAC swap. Let's say the two picks are the 2025 ATL and 2026 Spurs with ATL swap. You still have the 2027 ATL, a 2028 swap with Boston, a best of between SAS/DAL/MIN for 2030, and an unprotected Minnesota 20131 in the war chest.

[eric365]

They're still stuck in 00s mindset and think we can pull some more Tonys and Manus out of our asses with late picks.

Derrick White and Dejuntay Murray were drafted 29th pick not so long ago by the spurs

[LeBowen]

Derrick White and Dejuntay Murray were drafted 29th pick not so long ago by the spurs

8 and 9 years ago.

And they were side projects.
Spurs were stacked and they had no pressure on them to make big contributions.
Noone is saying that we should trade all the picks, but we most definitely don't need or want another 2 rookies next season.

What we need is some legit help for Wemby because it's still one of the worst teams in the league without him.

[scott]

8 and 9 years ago.

And they were side projects.
Spurs were stacked and they had no pressure on them to make big contributions.
Noone is saying that we should trade all the picks, but we most definitely don't need or want another 2 rookies next season.

What we need is some legit help for Wemby because it's still one of the worst teams in the league without him.

It's weird how all the same people stoked to trade the #8 pick last year for an FRP in 7 years are the same people who want to horde a pick destined for the late teens in this draft, which is looking to be just as weak as (if not more than) last in that range.

[LeBowen]

It's weird how all the same people stoked to trade the #8 pick last year for an FRP in 7 years are the same people who want to horde a pick destined for the late teens in this draft, which is looking to be just as weak as (if not more than) last in that range.

Eh, I understand it, Spurs pretty much never made any big trades as buyers.
Trading Hill for nephew is the biggest trade of PATFO era, there's not a single team in the league that made less relevant trades for starters over the past ~30 years.
But it's a different league now and we need some moves.

Lonnie #18, Samanic #19, Keldon #29, Vassell #11, Primo #12, Sochan #9, Branham #20, Wesley #25.

Those are 8 FRPs after Derrick and before Wemby. One could argue that those were above average selections in range similar to what we'll get over the next few years.
And people still think we'll get a legit #2 with those Hawks picks, there's no point in even discussing it anymore.

Certain poster we all know posted about how we ruined the tank last night as soon as the game ended. Some people are just completely out of touch with reality.

[rjv]

It's weird how all the same people stoked to trade the #8 pick last year for an FRP in 7 years are the same people who want to horde a pick destined for the late teens in this draft, which is looking to be just as weak as (if not more than) last in that range.

we don't get to choose what picks a potential trade partner will ask for though. if i'm a potential trade partner. i'm paying attention to where that pick falls also. that's where farther down the road picks can have some value. because if we know a pick is likely to be worthless, any GM in the league is going to know that also. it also makes giving up castle that much less attractive in that you're giving up the one top 5 pick besides Wemby that you were able to get. i think it's all moot though because i would really be shocked if fox was moved before this trade deadline.

[BatManu20]

Yea this upcoming stretch will be telling. It's pretty brutal. 8 of their next 12 games are:

@ Celtics
@ Bucks
@ Nuggets
@ Knicks
@ OKC
@ Minny

And then home games vs:

Rockets
Warriors

The other 4 easier teams sprinkled in there are the:

@ Bulls
vs. Wizards
@ Nets
@ Sixers

This will be a tough test for them. Will be interesting to see what their record looks like after this month. This stretch may very well decide De'Aaron Fox's future in Sacramento.

Kings have now won 5 in a row since firing Mike Brown. Tough stretch coming up here though so we'll see how they come out of it, but early returns on the MB firing aren't good tbh.

[scott]

we don't get to choose what picks a potential trade partner will ask for though. if i'm a potential trade partner. i'm paying attention to where that pick falls also. that's where farther down the road picks can have some value. because if we know a pick is likely to be worthless, any GM in the league is going to know that also. it also makes giving up castle that much less attractive in that you're giving up the one top 5 pick besides Wemby that you were able to get. i think it's all moot though because i would really be shocked if fox was moved before this trade deadline.

My point was more that people don't want to give up picks that look destined for the teens for proven players (thus, overvaluing the picks) but get excited when we trade a #8 pick for a pick that will probably end up even lower in 7 years (and a swap, which is even lower EV)

[LeBowen]

Kings have now won 5 in a row since firing Mike Brown. Tough stretch coming up here though so we'll see how they come out of it, but early returns on the MB firing aren't good tbh.

Fox hasn't played in last two games, maybe they start thinking they're better off with another type of player?
I think it's ultimately down to Fox's mentality. Does he want to win a ring or is he content treadmilling?
It's the biggest decision of his career and he'll have to make it this summer. If he extends, he has to accept he'll likely never be a part of a top contender.

[rjv]

My point was more that people don't want to give up picks that look destined for the teens for proven players (thus, overvaluing the picks) but get excited when we trade a #8 pick for a pick that will probably end up even lower in 7 years (and a swap, which is even lower EV)

this isn't meant as a shot at you, in any way, but this is the image that comes to mind when i read some of your more analytical posts:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRI0i76X17wHMxp6b7U7225KZX_sVhsY wXwDw&s

[baseline bum]

this isn't meant as a shot at you, in any way, but this is the image that comes to mind when i read some of your more analytical posts:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRI0i76X17wHMxp6b7U7225KZX_sVhsY wXwDw&s

Speaking of that we need Wright to trade Pena so Mitch will stop penciling him into the starting PF slot every night

[rjv]

Speaking of that we need Wright to trade Pena so Mitch will stop penciling him into the starting PF slot every night

lol "i don't think so; he plays for detroit now."

[scott]

this isn't meant as a shot at you, in any way, but this is the image that comes to mind when i read some of your more analytical posts:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRI0i76X17wHMxp6b7U7225KZX_sVhsY wXwDw&s

One of my favorite movies and Peter Brand is one of my favorite characters. He's based on Paul DePodesta, who I'm a fan of though he's not exactly killing it in Cleveland. I'm a little older the Peter/Paul was at the time of movie, but I'd love to be Brian Wright's office-dork. :lol

I take this as a complement.

[spurraider21]

One of my favorite movies and Peter Brand is one of my favorite characters. He's based on Paul DePodesta, who I'm a fan of though he's not exactly killing it in Cleveland. I'm a little older the Peter/Paul was at the time of movie, but I'd love to be Brian Wright's office-dork. :lol

I take this as a complement.
really good movie. they almost made peter brand... TOO correct. also ignores a lot of the absolute stars those A's had. movie doesnt once mention miguel fucking tejada :lol... or their insane rotation with Zito/Hudson/Mulder. the only pitcher we hear about was the chad bradford

i thought for much of the move billy seemed almost irrelevant as he was just doing whatever peter said. they ended up salvaging that with the trade scene and him connecting with david justice.

[exstatic]

Kings have now won 5 in a row since firing Mike Brown. Tough stretch coming up here though so we'll see how they come out of it, but early returns on the MB firing aren't good tbh.

I don’t think there was much chance at all of them trading Fox during the season. He’s waiting on the all NBA selections to see if he’ll get the SuperMax. If he does, he’ll probably give SAC another year or two to right the ship before asking out. If he doesn’t,he’ll probably ask out this summer.

[RC_Drunkford]

Everybody knows he won‘t make All-NBA this season

[exstatic]

Everybody knows he won‘t make All-NBA this season

Kawhi is dropping off, and it’s looking like Luka also won’t make 65 games. Halliburton looks terrible, and may not make it, and one of Book/Durant may not make it because PHO is fucking awful. Durant tops out at 72 games with the time he’s missed already, and may also fall below the 65 game threshold. Fox has a previous appearance in 22-23, and there’s going to be some openings this year.

[scott]

Fox only a fringe guy on Vecenie's WC all stars at this point (he has Victor as a starter in his picks, not meaning he's predicting Wemby will be a starter, but that he should be).

Still time for Fox to turn it around, but it would take a major push to make All NBA this year. But if SAC turns it around and makes the playoffs, he'll likely have a strong case.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2d4v-UNQ51g

[objective]

Fox made 3rd team all-NBA the year Sacramento was the 3rd seed in the west. If they don't make the playoffs, with a coach killing rep I find it hard to believe he would get rewarded unless the 65 game threshold severely limits the pool.

Jalen Williams has a better chance at an all-NBA team as a reward for a team that will win high 60s or even crack 70+ wins.

[scott]

Fox made 3rd team all-NBA the year Sacramento was the 3rd seed in the west. If they don't make the playoffs, with a coach killing rep I find it hard to believe he would get rewarded unless the 65 game threshold severely limits the pool.

Jalen Williams has a better chance at an all-NBA team as a reward for a team that will win high 60s or even crack 70+ wins.

tbh, it would be great for us if Jalen did make it so he can get that rookie supermax

[cutewizard]

Sign Becky now please

[RC_Drunkford]

Why do people think Fox is a coach killer? Apparently the owner fired Mike Brown, which is why Kings management never said anything

[objective]

Why do people think Fox is a coach killer? Apparently the owner fired Mike Brown, which is why Kings management never said anything

Because he turned down the extension, Brown spent all year in the media critiquing him, Fox's new agent then had a meeting with managers about the future, then Fox had some bad performances capped with a game losing boneheaded play that was the opposite of what he was told, Brown then singled him out even more, and within a day he was fired. And Fox sure wasn't seeming to have any problem with the firing when talking to the media after. Said his reaction to being told on the team plane that Brown was fired was to just go to sleep.

Might not be fair to think he's a coach killer but there's enough to raise eyebrows.

[Maddog]

Because he turned down the extension, Brown spent all year in the media critiquing him, Fox's new agent then had a meeting with managers about the future, then Fox had some bad performances capped with a game losing boneheaded play that was the opposite of what he was told, Brown then singled him out even more, and within a day he was fired. And Fox sure wasn't seeming to have any problem with the firing when talking to the media after. Said his reaction to being told on the team plane that Brown was fired was to just go to sleep.

Might not be fair to think he's a coach killer but there's enough to raise eyebrows.

This,
Poor defense
so/so 3 percent

Not sure I see the infatuation especially at his price

[scott]

This,
Poor defense
so/so 3 percent

Not sure I see the infatuation especially at his price

This has been covered in this thread, but I wouldn't label Fox as a poor defender. He's pretty much the epitome of an average defender, and above average defender for a point guard, who complements his overall average defense with impact defensive plays (he's 11th in the league in steals).

If he had to play SG next to CP3 for a year, he'd definitely get taken advantage of. But as a PG, he's actually above average.

https://i.ibb.co/59RcHxc/fox.png

[Obstructed_View]

The more I think about this, the more I think it's a good idea. But then I remember who the coach is and I lose hope and decide I will root for Victor after he leaves the team.

[Mr. Body]

Why do people think Fox is a coach killer? Apparently the owner fired Mike Brown, which is why Kings management never said anything

How do you think these things happen? Do you think Fox is standing there with a bloody dagger in his hand or something?

[paperboy77]

How do you think these things happen? Do you think Fox is standing there with a bloody dagger in his hand or something?

TBH Mike seems like he'd wear out his welcome really quick.

[exstatic]

TBH Mike seems like he'd wear out his welcome really quick.

You can’t do what he did. If there was a knife involved, MB bodily ran into it by naming and shaming to the press. That’s Bob Hill style shit.

[RC_Drunkford]

Because he turned down the extension, Brown spent all year in the media critiquing him, Fox's new agent then had a meeting with managers about the future, then Fox had some bad performances capped with a game losing boneheaded play that was the opposite of what he was told, Brown then singled him out even more, and within a day he was fired. And Fox sure wasn't seeming to have any problem with the firing when talking to the media after. Said his reaction to being told on the team plane that Brown was fired was to just go to sleep.

Might not be fair to think he's a coach killer but there's enough to raise eyebrows.

I swear y'all be making shit up just to validate your opinion :lol

1877232729378451641

[rjv]

I swear y'all be making shit up just to validate your opinion :lol

1877232729378451641

i can't believe anyone on ST would ever resort to such tactics.

[BatManu20]

Kings win yet again -- albeit on a questionable foul call -- this time over a good Houston Rockets team. Firing Mike Brown seems to have a lit a fire under their ass.

1880124511523410356

1880122909139877992

[slick'81]

Mike brown who?

[spursistan]

Kings win yet again -- albeit on a questionable foul call -- this time over a good Houston Rockets team. Firing Mike Brown seems to have a lit a fire under their ass.

1880124511523410356

1880122909139877992
Not a good kook for Mike Brown, tbh. Pop better not hand him the reigns. Always thought guys like him and Alvin Gentry are best suited for the 'elite assistant' role.

[RC_Drunkford]

Mike Brown sucked. They switched every pick & roll against us, so Wemby could get the mismatch everytime and go ham on them. Even the dumbest youtubers scratched their head on why they did that.

[scott]

Fox isn't getting moved anytime soon. It was a fun discussion while it lasted though!

[Obstructed_View]

Fox trade won't happen. Brown was the problem. If you want a trade, try to get Jimmy Butler for a discount.

[BatManu20]

Womp womp.

1882303454598803516

[Ice009]

Wow, what a turn around. I wish it was the Spurs went on that kind of run :(.

[Robz4000]

Wow, what a turn around. I wish it was the Spurs went on that kind of run :(.

:lol you'll get it but reversed here in the next few games

[RC_Drunkford]

Wow, what a turn around. I wish it was the Spurs went on that kind of run :(.

they only franchise that hasn‘t won 5 games in a row in the 2020s :lol

[Ice009]

:lol you'll get it but reversed here in the next few games

Darn, you could be right.


they only franchise that hasn‘t won 5 games in a row in the 2020s :lol

Wow, didn't know that. Shocking turn around compared to what we're used to. Glad I didn't follow all those games.

[scott]

For the FoxSquad:

Reading the Kings reddit, apparently Fox needs surgery, he has a torn ligament in his thumb and he's planning on off-season surgery. But... as a result of his injury he's kind of been playing like ass, to the point where some Kings fans just want him to have the surgery now, even if it ends his season.

He won't make All NBA if he has season ending surgery, but he also won't make All NBA if he plays like ass the rest of the way. Big extension implications there.

[LeBowen]

For the FoxSquad:

Reading the Kings reddit, apparently Fox needs surgery, he has a torn ligament in his thumb and he's planning on off-season surgery. But... as a result of his injury he's kind of been playing like ass, to the point where some Kings fans just want him to have the surgery now, even if it ends his season.

He won't make All NBA if he has season ending surgery, but he also won't make All NBA if he plays like ass the rest of the way. Big extension implications there.

I don't think there's a chance he makes all-NBA regardless of his injury situation.
Sabonis has been their best player this season, no way two Kings make all-NBA.

It will be up to him next summer and I honestly have no clue which road is he going to take.
Is he going to be loyal and stay with the Kings knowing that he'll probably never get a legit chance to win a title?
Or is he going to ask for a trade if Spurs are interested?

I don't see any other all-stars being available this summer unless by some miracle Markkanen gets sick of Ainge.
Just recently he talked about how he doesn't appreciate tanking seasons.

[Spurs Brazil]

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1884340205429129673

[BatManu20]

2026 FRP + 2025 & 2026 ATL Picks + Keldon & Zollins. Take it or leave it.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GiaGBS6XgAAsJuP?format=jpg&name=medium

[LeBowen]

Devin+Tre+3 FRPs or 2 ATL FRPs.
Wesley instead of Tre if they're interested.

Or Devin+Jeremy+1 ATL FRP.

[mo7888]

Devin+Tre+3 FRPs or 2 ATL FRPs.
Wesley instead of Tre if they're interested.

Or Devin+Jeremy+1 ATL FRP.

I'm good with any of those.

[Blizzardwizard]

Vassell and Keldon for Fox? Why would we give up two All-Stars for one?

[Robz4000]

In b4 it's the Lakers and the Kings are forced to take a shit return this season.

[spurraider21]

1884342772603162705

[baseline bum]

2026 FRP + 2025 & 2026 ATL Picks + Keldon & Zollins. Take it or leave it.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GiaGBS6XgAAsJuP?format=jpg&name=medium

Spurs only have one pick in 2026, as it's a swap with ATL they have that year. 2025, 2027, and 20131 they have two picks or more.

[LeBowen]

In b4 it's the Lakers and the Kings are forced to take a shit return this season.


[Charania] De’Aaron Fox has zero interest in joining the Los Angeles Lakers. The Lakers are not among his preferred destinations.

My guess would be Spurs, Rockets, Magic as top3 destinations that make sense.

[BatManu20]

In b4 it's the Lakers and the Kings are forced to take a shit return this season.

1884344929104847259

[mo7888]

For the FoxSquad:

Reading the Kings reddit, apparently Fox needs surgery, he has a torn ligament in his thumb and he's planning on off-season surgery. But... as a result of his injury he's kind of been playing like ass, to the point where some Kings fans just want him to have the surgery now, even if it ends his season.

He won't make All NBA if he has season ending surgery, but he also won't make All NBA if he plays like ass the rest of the way. Big extension implications there.

Do you know if it's his ball dominant hand or not?

[LeBowen]

Haynes is saying Fox won't sign an extension.
No reason to wait for the summer and not get him now.
If Wright lowballs, someone else will get him at the deadline.

Before tank crew rolls in, difference between 9th and 12th best odds isn't worth it.

[tbdog]

Obviously Fox said he won't be extending or perhaps resigning for the Kings to pivot after they put themselves in the top 10.

[LeBowen]

Apparently a somewhat reliable Kings reporter is saying Spurs are Fox's preferred destination.

Inb4 we like what we have. :pop:

[Robz4000]

Haynes is saying Fox won't sign an extension.
No reason to wait for the summer and not get him now.
If Wright lowballs, someone else will get him at the deadline.

Before tank crew rolls in, difference between 9th and 12th best odds isn't worth it.

If Fox won't sign an extension I stay away tbh. With his thumb injury he won't be very useful this season so you might only get him for one season.

[Spurs Brazil]

Kings will want that unprotected pick swap in 2031 back. Give the worst of our pick and Hawks pick in 25, the Hawks pick in 27 and the Bulls pick. Plus that swap back.

[spurraider21]

1884344762414907516

[Cardinal]

Apparently a somewhat reliable Kings reporter is saying Spurs are Fox's preferred destination.

Inb4 we like what we have. :pop:

who/where is that report?

[Seventyniner]

In a perfect world (for the Spurs), Fox tells everyone that he will only sign an extension with the Spurs, causing other teams to pull or lower their offers and allowing the Spurs to outbid the field without paying too much.

[LeBowen]

who/where is that report?

Handle is danmienbarling on Musk's garbage.

[Spurs Brazil]

https://x.com/TheSteinLine/status/1884348601222279471

[scott]

FOX SQUAD, OUR TIME IS NOW!

KELDON, GET READY TO LIGHT THE BEAM

[LeBowen]

FOX SQUAD, OUR TIME IS NOW!

KELDON, GET READY TO LIGHT THE BEAM

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT, YOU DON'T LIKE NBA BASKETBALL!

(can we also get their play by play guy?)

[KingKev]

Can this thread get to 50 fucking pages before our big trade is for Bobby Portis to help facilitate Butler to Milwaukee? I’m not sure but let’s fucking go been pretty doom and gloom around here.

[baseline bum]

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1884340205429129673

Hopefully Klutch wasn't bullshitting about wanting to steer clients to San Antonio and meant Fox, as he is their only client I give a shit about (as no way Davis would leave LA to come here).

[mikec]

Apparently a somewhat reliable Kings reporter is saying Spurs are Fox's preferred destination.

Inb4 we like what we have. :pop:

damn beat me to the punch.

[NASpurs]

itshappening.gif prayingdog.jpg

[BatManu20]

Spurs only have one pick in 2026, as it's a swap with ATL they have that year. 2025, 2027, and 20131 they have two picks or more.

Oh duh that's right. Okay substitute that Minny 20131 pick instead and be done with it.

[LkrFan]

What is the Spurs cap situation looking like? We know Fox will want a max. Is RC footing that bill? :downspin:

[Seventyniner]

Fox should wear #29 if he comes to the Spurs. He would get all the airtime he wants on KABB.

[BatManu20]

Realistically, they're not going to trade Fox unless it's for a good, young player + multiple picks imo. It would have to include Vassell. They need perimeter shooting so they likely have no interest in Sochan.

Devin + 3 FRP's is likely the bare minimum to make this trade happen tbh.

[scott]

What is the Spurs cap situation looking like? We know Fox will want a max. Is RC footing that bill? :downspin:

Our cap sheet is perfectly aligned for a Max FA in the summer of 2026... which just perfectly coincides with when Fox's new deal would kick in.

If PATFO can make this happen I will reconvert to Snifferism.