De'Aaron Fox Rumors Suggest a Possible Trade to The Spurs

[vy65]

The more I think about it, the more I would not pull the trigger at mid-season vs off season. We’re 2.5 games out of the 10th side and have the 12th most difficult SOS. Not insurmountable, but not great. Wouldn’t it be better to see where our picks fall, and re-assess price in the summer? Wouldn’t fox’s price be lower?

[mo7888]

3 Unprotected FRP, 1 Unprotected Swap, 1 Highly Protected* FRP (71 Comp Points) is what my model spit out. (*Highly protected would be lotto protected, as an example)

So depending on how you value Vassell, not too far off from what I originally threw out (Vassell + CHI pick + SA25 + SA27 + rip up SAC swap). Of course I'm kind of counting on our own picks not being too great (assuming Fox is enough to get us in play-in this year and it being in the 20s in 2027), which is why I include them instead of the ATL picks.

I love that pick package for Fox. I wonder if we could exchange Keldon + Malaki for Heurter in that deal too? Heurter would be a better fit here if we moved Devin and his contract is a year shorter.

[scott]

LOL

THESE KINGS HOMERS

One of the hosts claims a fair return STARTS at Castle + Vassell + Sochan + 2 first round picks (at least 1 ATL if not both) + tearing up the Kings swap

Hoping B.Wright isn't that B.Wrong

I mean, every team has fans who overvalue their own assets. Just look at this site and thinking aloud that it would be a dilemma to trade Sochan for Amen.

Like George Carlin once said, "everyone thinks their shit is stuff, and everyone else's stuff is shit."

[scott]

I love that pick package for Fox. I wonder if we could exchange Keldon + Malaki for Heurter in that deal too? Heurter would be a better fit here if we moved Devin and his contract is a year shorter.

I like it, especially for the 2026 Cap situation.

[vy65]

And a related issue is, assuming you do the fox deal (which I think would take dev + castle + 3 picks and a swap), where does that leave you going forward? What moves can you make in the offseason/2026 that put you at or near contending status? Fox alone isn’t going to cut it. I’m all in favor of using assets to make this purchase, but you have to keep powder dry. That’s why I’m officially king’s x’ing this deal if Castle is required.

[CGD]

I know it’s not popular to be anti big trades but this one makes me a little nervous. I would be pretty pissed off if Castle was in a deal for Fox.

Me too

[stnick2261]

Long responses are great. I understand all of that for future picks involved, but I think this year is different for specific reasons.
1) If we are picks #9 and #10, there is not much difference between the two and a “better/worse of” isn’t a huge factor.
2) If either was to hit the low odds of a top 4 pick… I’d hate to give a huge package in a trade and find out a few months later that it included Flagg, Harper, Bailey, or Edgecombe

[scott]

And a related issue is, assuming you do the fox deal (which I think would take dev + castle + 3 picks and a swap), where does that leave you going forward? What moves can you make in the offseason/2026 that put you at or near contending status? Fox alone isn’t going to cut it. I’m all in favor of using assets to make this purchase, but you have to keep powder dry. That’s why I’m officially king’s x’ing this deal if Castle is required.

I'm FoxGang Til I Die, but that package is a bridge too far for me. As much as I'm pro Fox and Anti-Dev, I'm out on that deal. As you basically state, it leaves us bare without valuable picks to acquire more. That's 2 steps forward and 1.9-2.1 steps back.

[scott]

Long responses are great. I understand all of that for future picks involved, but I think this year is different for specific reasons.
1) If we are picks #9 and #10, there is not much difference between the two and a “better/worse of” isn’t a huge factor.
2) If either was to hit the low odds of a top 4 pick… I’d hate to give a huge package in a trade and find out a few months later that it included Flagg, Harper, Bailey, or Edgecombe

I don't do the deal and I wait until the summer if I think our pick is still going to be the 9 or 10 seed in the lottery after the trade (because clearly Fox isn't making you better in that case, so what was the point?).

[CGD]

I love that pick package for Fox. I wonder if we could exchange Keldon + Malaki for Heurter in that deal too? Heurter would be a better fit here if we moved Devin and his contract is a year shorter.

Totally. I've been thinking about adding Heurter as well, and including Keldon could mean getting some protections back on the picks going to SAC.

[stnick2261]

I don't do the deal and I wait until the summer if I think our pick is still going to be the 9 or 10 seed in the lottery after the trade (because clearly Fox isn't making you better in that case, so what was the point?).

I forgot to say that I would be planning on whatever surgeries would be needed to get Fox 100% for the future.

A little more complicated, but a better of SA25/ATL25 (top 4 protected) would also accomplish what I wanted it to.

[baseline bum]

And a related issue is, assuming you do the fox deal (which I think would take dev + castle + 3 picks and a swap), where does that leave you going forward? What moves can you make in the offseason/2026 that put you at or near contending status? Fox alone isn’t going to cut it. I’m all in favor of using assets to make this purchase, but you have to keep powder dry. That’s why I’m officially king’s x’ing this deal if Castle is required.

That's a massive overpay I wouldn't consider unless the picks are all worst of, eg worst of Spurs/Hawks/Bulls 2025, worst of Spurs/Hawks 2027, and worst of Spurs/Wolves 20131. And I keep the Kings 2030 swap. Even then I'm pretty hesitant since Castle is likely to be a very solid player.

[slick'81]

Apparently he wants to go to texas and rockets are in the mix as well

[vy65]

I'm FoxGang Til I Die, but that package is a bridge too far for me. As much as I'm pro Fox and Anti-Dev, I'm out on that deal. As you basically state, it leaves us bare without valuable picks to acquire more. That's 2 steps forward and 1.9-2.1 steps back.


That's a massive overpay I wouldn't consider unless the picks are all worst of, eg worst of Spurs/Hawks/Bulls 2025, worst of Spurs/Hawks 2027, and worst of Spurs/Wolves 20131. And I keep the Kings 2030 swap.

Totally agree it’s an overpay and I wouldn’t do those deals. I’m just trying to think of what SAC’s position is. I’d refuse to do a deal that didn’t include Castle. So, does Castle + CHI25 + ATL27 (most likely) + MIN20131 (most likely) and Collins (salary) get it done? I’d hang up the phone and do something with Brooklyn. I think even Houston could beat that offer too.

[baseline bum]

Totally agree it’s an overpay and I wouldn’t do those deals. I’m just trying to think of what SAC’s position is. I’d refuse to do a deal that didn’t include Castle. So, does Castle + CHI25 + ATL27 (most likely) + MIN20131 (most likely) and Collins (salary) get it done? I’d hang up the phone and do something with Brooklyn. I think even Houston could beat that offer too.

If I'm Wright I'd be trying to make a trade centered on Sochan instead of Castle, maybe try to make it three team for someone who'd be more interested in him than Sac is.

[Dejounte]

Just watched Vassell's post-practice interview and he really hesitated answering the question of whether or not he's going to the All-Star game to support Castle.
Wondering if the Fox trade news is affecting this. He might not be a Spur by that time.

It's so surreal to actually have a possible trade in the works. I'm setting myself up for expecting something more along the lines of adding Jalen Hood-Schifino.


This could go either way. Maybe he knows Castle could be traded.

[DPG21920]

Totally agree it’s an overpay and I wouldn’t do those deals. I’m just trying to think of what SAC’s position is. I’d refuse to do a deal that didn’t include Castle. So, does Castle + CHI25 + ATL27 (most likely) + MIN20131 (most likely) and Collins (salary) get it done? I’d hang up the phone and do something with Brooklyn. I think even Houston could beat that offer too.

What could HOU offer that beats that? I guess Amen Thompson but I highly doubt that is on table. Maybe Jabari + 26 HOURS + 27 PHX + 29 PHX? Or if Kings are win now then they get FVV + Cam + these picks?

[DPG21920]

HOU does have a ton of picks and can make a very good offer. I’d be very happy if HOU traded young talent + 3-4 firsts for Fox.

[vy65]

If I'm Wright I'd be trying to make a trade centered on Sochan instead of Castle, maybe try to make it three team for someone who'd be more interested in him than Sac is.

God I love it when you talk dirty to me

[baseline bum]

I don't do the deal and I wait until the summer if I think our pick is still going to be the 9 or 10 seed in the lottery after the trade (because clearly Fox isn't making you better in that case, so what was the point?).

You don't think Fox is making you better than a pick that would be ninth in the lottery? It's a 20.27% chance to be top 4 and a 79.73% chance to be 9-13 if you're ninth in the lottery.

[Splits]

news flash: the Spurs don't trade for stars. Get over yourselves.

[slick'81]

Can brian wright actually pull off a deal to improve sa?

[CGD]

This could go either way. Maybe he knows Castle could be traded.

Castle playing chess by agreeing to rep the Spurs in the dunk contest, lol!

[scott]

You don't think Fox is making you better than a pick that would be ninth in the lottery? It's a 20.27% chance to be top 4 and a 79.73% chance to be 9-13 if you're ninth in the lottery.

The post of mine that you quoted was in response to someone else's question. I already previously stated I would expect to make the Play-In at a minimum if we got Fox.

[djohn2oo8]

HOU does have a ton of picks and can make a very good offer. I’d be very happy if HOU traded young talent + 3-4 firsts for Fox.
Naw they standing pat. They might trade Jabari though for something else.

[baseline bum]

Naw they standing pat. They might trade Jabari though for something else.

Holding out for Book?

[spurraider21]

Houston is waiting for Booker/Durant tbh

[djohn2oo8]

Holding out for Book?
Yep. They prefer Book over Fox.

[djohn2oo8]

Houston is waiting for Booker/Durant tbh
Yep. Should be interesting.

[ismael-robert]

Houston doesn't need anything already have a contender

[PhantomDashCam]

D - Fox - Rookie Numbers as Starter:




Games
Field Goals
Three Points
Free Throws
Rebounds
Miscellaneous


Starter
G
Min
FGM
FGA
FG%
3PM
3PA
3P%
FTM
FTA
FT%
OR
DR
Reb
Ast
TO
Stl
Blk
PF
Pts


As Starter
61
28:05
4.5
10.8
41.4
0.7
2.2
31.9
1.9
2.7
72.4
0.4
2.3
2.7
4.3
2.5
1.0
0.3
2.2
11.6



S - Castle - Rookie Numbers as Starter:




Games
Field Goals
Three Points
Free Throws
Rebounds
Miscellaneous


Starter
G
Min
FGM
FGA
FG%
3PM
3PA
3P%
FTM
FTA
FT%
OR
DR
Reb
Ast
TO
Stl
Blk
PF
Pts


As Starter
25
29:48
5.2
12.6
41.1
1.4
4.8
29.2
2.9
3.8
76.0
1.1
1.7
2.8
4.2
2.2
0.9
0.3
1.6
14.7

[Mnky]

I honestly don't see fox as big a deal as others. He plys 40 mins+ to get 25 points. He doesn't shoot the three well, he's undersized and doesn't play defense.

He can make electric plays, but he hasn't been able to do much outside of one year with the team designed for him in win now mode.

I just don't see it. Maybe I haven't watched enoigh highlights? He doesn't jump off the screen as superstar to me.

If we are going to throw picks away for an undersized PG who doesn't play Defense, Tre Young fits the spurs mold next to Wemby better than fox does.

I'd be happy to upgrade to Fox but not for a superstar price. I just don't see how he would move the needle like that with this team.

[DPG21920]

Naw they standing pat. They might trade Jabari though for something else.

Sure - and that’s justifiable given how great HOU has been this season. Im just saying on paper, HOU has “some” need there and “fit” and plenty of assets to get it done if they so desire (and I would be happy if they gave up Jabari + 3+ firsts for Fox

[vy65]

Call this copium, but I’ve been listening to some SAC commentators and they’re saying that SAC is looking to reset vs rebuild. Which makes sense given their roster and their history. They can’t rebuild without also offloading DD/Sabonis/Monk. There doesn’t seem to be much of an appetite to go back to being a black hole franchise. All of which is to say that I now think some sort of deal for Cam Johnson or Collin Sexton or, hell, even BI makes more sense than Castle + picks. Plus, they have Devin Carter + Keon Ellis. What’s the point in adding Steph to that?

[daslicer]

I honestly don't see fox as big a deal as others. He plys 40 mins+ to get 25 points. He doesn't shoot the three well, he's undersized and doesn't play defense.

He can make electric plays, but he hasn't been able to do much outside of one year with the team designed for him in win now mode.

I just don't see it. Maybe I haven't watched enoigh highlights? He doesn't jump off the screen as superstar to me.

If we are going to throw picks away for an undersized PG who doesn't play Defense, Tre Young fits the spurs mold next to Wemby better than fox does.

I'd be happy to upgrade to Fox but not for a superstar price. I just don't see how he would move the needle like that with this team.

I would also add that I'm concerned with Fox eventually getting injured. Small guards that rely heavily on their athleticism tend to end up eventually getting a serious injury that deals with them usually blowing out their knees.

[CorrectCrusader]

I'm really interested in seeing the price for Fox. He's a low level allstar tier player.

[goliath]

I don’t think the issue is are there teams that can top a Vassell, tre jones, chi 1st, 25 1st, minn 1st, no sac pick swap offer. There are. The question is would someone top that with the worry that he leaves in 1 1/2 years to the Spurs in free agency when he has made it known in league circles he want to go to the Spurs. Houston could top it but I doubt they make the offer without an assurance he extends, which it doesn’t seem like he will for anyone but the Spurs.

[BacktoBasics]

I don’t think the issue is are there teams that can top a Vassell, tre jones, chi 1st, 25 1st, minn 1st, no sac pick swap offer. There are. The question is would someone top that with the worry that he leaves in 1 1/2 years to the Spurs in free agency when he has made it known in league circles he want to go to the Spurs. Houston could top it but I doubt they make the offer without an assurance he extends, which it doesn’t seem like he will for anyone but the Spurs.

3 firsts and two serviceable players. I can’t say I’d say no but that’s a lot to give up for a guy isn’t going to make us contenders.

[slick'81]

Wemby making sa a destination finally

[scott]

Call this copium, but I’ve been listening to some SAC commentators and they’re saying that SAC is looking to reset vs rebuild. Which makes sense given their roster and their history. They can’t rebuild without also offloading DD/Sabonis/Monk. There doesn’t seem to be much of an appetite to go back to being a black hole franchise. All of which is to say that I now think some sort of deal for Cam Johnson or Collin Sexton or, hell, even BI makes more sense than Castle + picks. Plus, they have Devin Carter + Keon Ellis. What’s the point in adding Steph to that?

Yeah, while there are straight forward paths that include Devin I still think the optimal solution for everyone is involving a 3rd team like BKN (Cam), UTA (Jollins), WAS (Kuzma), or even POR (Grant).

There's something that can likely get worked out there if the sides wanted it

[Mnky]

I would also add that I'm concerned with Fox eventually getting injured. Small guards that rely heavily on their athleticism tend to end up eventually getting a serious injury that deals with them usually blowing out their knees.

Yea I've noticed he doesn't attack the rim nearly as much as he used to. I know he had a crazy vert when he first came in the league. His legs going out sooner than later and him being more dependent on that physical aspect to score rather than being a shooter also doesn't sit well with me.

I'm cool with an upgrade, but not into all these 1st, people are trying to throw around. Inflation is too high.

[scott]

Fascinating timeline of events in the Kings subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/kings/comments/1ick9uw/timeline_of_what_lead_to_todays_fox_trade_request/

Gives you a newfound appreciation that whatever you think of PATFO, at least they aren't the King's FO.

[DPG21920]

I don’t think the issue is are there teams that can top a Vassell, tre jones, chi 1st, 25 1st, minn 1st, no sac pick swap offer. There are. The question is would someone top that with the worry that he leaves in 1 1/2 years to the Spurs in free agency when he has made it known in league circles he want to go to the Spurs. Houston could top it but I doubt they make the offer without an assurance he extends, which it doesn’t seem like he will for anyone but the Spurs.

It’s chicken/egg. I doubt a team does that if they dont have assurances. If they all get wind he wants SA or nothing, they wont offer what it takes to beat SA offer etc..

[slick'81]

Spurs rumors on espn involving foxx

[daslicer]

Yea I've noticed he doesn't attack the rim nearly as much as he used to. I know he had a crazy vert when he first came in the league. His legs going out sooner than later and him being more dependent on that physical aspect to score rather than being a shooter also doesn't sit well with me.

I'm cool with an upgrade, but not into all these 1st, people are trying to throw around. Inflation is too high.

Agreed I just remember Tony Parker going on a fast decline after he turned 32. Once his first step was gone you could see how hard it was for Parker to be effective since Parker never had a good 3 point shot. Fox will have the same type of struggles once he loses his athleticism. Fox just turned 27 about a month ago so his window really is the next 3-5 years after that it's a question mark of how effective he will be due to age.

[CorrectCrusader]

Let's look at what these assets could reasonably get us if not Fox.

They could get us players from the draft, which, the last 5 years have not been kind to us, (Castle notwithstanding)
What other stars could it get us? Hawks aren't trading Young, what other young star talent would be pushing to go to us and giving us leverage?

We have enough assets and time that even if this doesn't work out, it doesn't really hurt us that much long term. Worst case scenario is that he's a low level allstar player who is a 2nd or 3rd option on a championship team.

[Mnky]

Agreed I just remember Tony Parker going on a fast decline after he turned 32. Once his first step was gone you could see how hard it was for Parker to be effective since Parker never had a good 3 point shot. Fox will have the same type of struggles once he loses his athleticism. Fox just turned 27 about a month ago so his window really is the next 3-5 years after that it's a question mark of how effective he will be due to age.

That's a good comparison.

[Mnky]

Let's look at what these assets could reasonably get us if not Fox.

They could get us players from the draft, which, the last 5 years have not been kind to us, (Castle notwithstanding)
What other stars could it get us? Hawks aren't trading Young, what other young star talent would be pushing to go to us and giving us leverage?

We have enough assets and time that even if this doesn't work out, it doesn't really hurt us that much long term. Worst case scenario is that he's a low level allstar player who is a 2nd or 3rd option on a championship team.

Tying up contracts becomes an issue. Free agents will want to play with Wemby, which is another reason I don't get selling the farm for a guy who wants to come to SA but only has 1 more year on his contract. After that year will be the real year spurs are likely to be competitive and he will be a free agent.

Things change fast in the NBA. Players we don't think would be availble suddenly come availble. Fox is the example. They were looking like title contenders just a couple years ago and he was the lead dog. Nows he's out?

I'd rather have the assets since we aren't competing anytime soon. It sucks as a fan to watch, but business wise makes more sense to

[scott]

Let's look at what these assets could reasonably get us if not Fox.

They could get us players from the draft, which, the last 5 years have not been kind to us, (Castle notwithstanding)
What other stars could it get us? Hawks aren't trading Young, what other young star talent would be pushing to go to us and giving us leverage?

We have enough assets and time that even if this doesn't work out, it doesn't really hurt us that much long term. Worst case scenario is that he's a low level allstar player who is a 2nd or 3rd option on a championship team.

I forgot who said it, but it was a perfect analogy. This forum is full of guys who can't laid by the ugliest chick in town, who sit around a criticize the hottest woman in the bar because her elbows are too pointy.

The rumors could be about Shai and people (not everyone, of course) would be like "IDK, we might need that 20131 late FRP..."

[slick'81]

If fox wants to come here you absolutely make it happen. Still, were talking about brian wrong here

[T Park]

The “two players and two draft picks is a lot of Fox” is amazing. �� just amazing

[Mr. Body]

I forgot who said it, but it was a perfect analogy. This forum is full of guys who can't laid by the ugliest chick in town, who sit around a criticize the hottest woman in the bar because her elbows are too pointy.

The rumors could be about Shai and people (not everyone, of course) would be like "IDK, we might need that 20131 late FRP..."

Funny, cuz this forum is like an insecure whore who will spread her legs for anybody and swear it'll be life changing. Same things when y'all swore we had to trade for John Collins, then swore we had to trade for Trae Young, swore we had to trade for Lauri Markannen, and every single one of you swore it was going to happen and then it never does. I'm sure this time it's totally different though.

[spurraider21]

fox is good and young enough that even if it doesnt completely pan out we can always trade him again and salvage it. look at the hawks with murray. fox isnt some 33 year old on the verge of falling off a cliff where he'd have no value or negative value

[TD 21]

A non-shooting guard isn't a logical centerpiece for a team with Sabonis.
While Castle has great upside, he's got a couple of years before he gets there.
Doesn't make sense unless they blow it up.
And Kings aren't a franchise that's going to accept where they get worse short term when they're finally back in the playoff picture.
And Carter is a similar type of player.

Not in general, but with the Spurs.

Carter doesn't project as a lead guard.

If they trade DeRozan for a better fit, they should remain pseudo competitive.

Either way, the Spurs expendable assets are good enough to get whatever (within' reason) they'd want from a third team.

[KobesAchilles]

KD will be available this offseason. I’d rather go for him. I’d love for Hou to trade for Fox seeing as they are our biggest competitors to get KD. Maybe we get KD and Hou gets Booker and Phoenix does an extreme reset? That would be my hope but either way I’d decline Fox for now.

[rascal]

Spurs are pretty stingy with their offers so I'm expecting a low ball offer that gets rejected and no trade happening.

[scott]

Tying up contracts becomes an issue. Free agents will want to play with Wemby, which is another reason I don't get selling the farm for a guy who wants to come to SA but only has 1 more year on his contract. After that year will be the real year spurs are likely to be competitive and he will be a free agent.

I showed the work a few pages ago, but if the Spurs sent out Vassell for Fox, gave Jeremy $20MM/yr, and gave Fox a 30% max extension this summer, they could still have close to $55MM in cap room in the summer of 2026.


Things change fast in the NBA. Players we don't think would be availble suddenly come availble. Fox is the example. They were looking like title contenders just a couple years ago and he was the lead dog. Nows he's out?

This is true, but it's not really that frequent, maybe a couple a year, but there are 30 teams. You aren't going to be perfectly situated for every one that comes available. Maybe that guy (like Fox has done here) says he has a destination in mind and won't extend with you? What if the next star who is suddenly available is a center that won't fit with Wemby? The opportunities that align for a team are actually few and far between. Now, that isn't a reason to make the trade in and of itself, but it is reason to not believe that you can just make a move like this any time.


I'd rather have the assets since we aren't competing anytime soon. It sucks as a fan to watch, but business wise makes more sense to

We'll only start competing when our team is better. The team won't get better until we improve the talent. Doing nothing but drafting guys with mid-picks and hoping that they turn out is one strategy, but it's a lot lower probability of success, considering that the median outcome for the ranges we are likely to be drafting is not great.

[scott]

Funny, cuz this forum is like an insecure whore who will spread her legs for anybody and swear it'll be life changing. Same things when y'all swore we had to trade for John Collins, then swore we had to trade for Trae Young, swore we had to trade for Lauri Markannen, and every single one of you swore it was going to happen and then it never does. I'm sure this time it's totally different though.

The feces that occupies your cranium appears to be infected with Norovirus. Please seek help.

[SpursGenius]

Totally agree it’s an overpay and I wouldn’t do those deals. I’m just trying to think of what SAC’s position is. I’d refuse to do a deal that didn’t include Castle. So, does Castle + CHI25 + ATL27 (most likely) + MIN20131 (most likely) and Collins (salary) get it done? I’d hang up the phone and do something with Brooklyn. I think even Houston could beat that offer too.
why are people here so stupid. Why give up all our assets for someone we can get for free in one year.

[SpursGenius]

Spurs are pretty stingy with their offers so I'm expecting a low ball offer that gets rejected and no trade happening.
Good that would be the smart move

[The Truth #6]

SAC would probably want Devin over Castle if I had to guess because he's more proven, theoretically, and a solid shooter. They're winning lately. Why totally rebuild?

Also I'd rather have Fox at $50 million then Devin + Zollins for $46ish. Granted, a new Fox contract affects future contracts for Sochan and Castle, but just saying.

[Mugen]

Anybody but Castle and Wemby and I'm good with it tbh.

[Mnky]

I showed the work a few pages ago, but if the Spurs sent out Vassell for Fox, gave Jeremy $20MM/yr, and gave Fox a 30% max extension this summer, they could still have close to $55MM in cap room in the summer of 2026.



This is true, but it's not really that frequent, maybe a couple a year, but there are 30 teams. You aren't going to be perfectly situated for every one that comes available. Maybe that guy (like Fox has done here) says he has a destination in mind and won't extend with you? What if the next star who is suddenly available is a center that won't fit with Wemby? The opportunities that align for a team are actually few and far between. Now, that isn't a reason to make the trade in and of itself, but it is reason to not believe that you can just make a move like this any time.



We'll only start competing when our team is better. The team won't get better until we improve the talent. Doing nothing but drafting guys with mid-picks and hoping that they turn out is one strategy, but it's a lot lower probability of success, considering that the median outcome for the ranges we are likely to be drafting is not great.

That argument though is to make a deal just to make a deal. Fox is not the best commodity coming up for free agency. Teams hardly let stars become free agents anymore and make deals.

There aren't really a lot of star bigs in the league. Wemby is it. The small guard is the easiest to find. Fox is not an uncommon archetype. If he was a forward, I'd be more inclined.

Like I said, I'd like to upgrade, but the price has to make sense. Wemby will continue to get better and so will one of the youngest teams in the NBA in the spurs. Just the same, aa we are seeing in the west, other teams will come down to the norm. Dynasties don't last anymore. Warriors were the closest thing but it was bought and still KD left. Easiest championship team broke apart.

The likelihood of success in trading for a star by giving up assets has for the most part not worked and the team usually ends up bad in 2-3 years with no draft picks. It's without a doubt safer to build through the draft if your team has any semblance of talent evaluation.

Going for a home run deal is inevitable with all the assets the spurs have, but for Fox? If you're shooting for the stars, just pay big and go for an established superstar. Don't pay big for someone you're comfortable walking in a couple years. That's the definition of a bad a deal. I'm okay with this guy walking away and having less draft picks when my team digresses once more. It's definitely a way you can go, but doesn't seem to be playing that way for most teams. Most competitive teams in the NBA with any consistency comes from building through picks.

[scott]

Posting this again, at the very end, the Kings guy who was the first who said "Kings fans should get used to the idea of a Fox trade" basically says he thinks Rich Paul is telling teams Fox will only extend with the Spurs. He comes on at the 1 hour 34 min mark if you want to listen to the discussion.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZGhs7UrDT8

[cutewizard]

There's no doubt Fox will elevate our game

[Gandalf]

I don’t want to give up Wemby, Castle, or too many first-round picks. The Kings don’t have much leverage, since he won’t extend with them (or, apparently, most other teams). They can lose him for nothing (and risk having a disgruntled star until he’s gone), or they can get a few things in return. Otherwise, walk away and sign him (or someone else) without losing assets this offseason or next.

Having said that, it’s nice to see Wemby already has this gravity - and the pull for good players would only get stronger with a Wemby-Castle-Fox core.

[scott]

That argument though is to make a deal just to make a deal. Fox is not the best commodity coming up for free agency. Teams hardly let stars become free agents anymore and make deals.

I disagree with that characterization. My argument would be that Fox is a very good player (an All-Star and former All-NBA level player) that fits our needs and wants to be here. That's about the best I can ever ask for as we aren't a typical trade destination and I'm not super interested in finding out if Wemby has made us one (All Time Great Tim Duncan wasn't enough to make us one).

Can you name some better commodities coming up for free agency or likely to be available via trade? Because Fox is a Top 25-30 player. Who do you think might be available sooner? The only one I can think of is KD, who is 1) old and 2) you can still get him even if you land Fox.


The likelihood of success in trading for a star by giving up assets has for the most part not worked and the team usually ends up bad in 2-3 years with no draft picks. It's without a doubt safer to build through the draft if your team has any semblance of talent evaluation.

Well, what's great about our situation is that we have an abundance of draft capital. There is no reasonable proposal fox Fox that leaves us with no draft picks. It's practically impossible.



Going for a home run deal is inevitable with all the assets the spurs have, but for Fox? If you're shooting for the stars, just pay big and go for an established superstar. Don't pay big for someone you're comfortable walking in a couple years. That's the definition of a bad a deal. I'm okay with this guy walking away and having less draft picks when my team digresses once more. It's definitely a way you can go, but doesn't seem to be playing that way for most teams. Most competitive teams in the NBA with any consistency comes from building through picks.

What established superstar do you have in mind, and how much do you think they'll cost? If Mitchell, Gobert, Bridges and KAT go for the prices they have, what do you think an "established superstar" will cost? There is the scenario where you are left with no draft picks.

Why would Fox walk away in a few years? You think he'll just retire from the game if he decides he doesn't like breakfast tacos? The only way this trade happens is if he is extending (like the OG and Siakam deals).

I find the "most competitive teams in the NBA with any consistency comes from building through picks" comment interesting. OKC's star came from a trade. BOS surrounded their big two with players acquired via trade. NYK is an entire roster full of guys they didn't draft. DEN has a key part of their core acquired via trade. Who are the consistently competitive teams that built through their picks? The Rockets and Grizz are probably the best examples, but Houston is recently competitive and the Grizz have been inconsistent due to injury.

[Spurminator]

Feels like some of y'all think the top 15-20 players in the NBA grow on trees and every Lotto pick will someday be counted among that group.

For example, I love Castle but there's a much better chance he'll never be that calibur of NBA talent than there is he will. IF all these rumors about Fox's tunnel vision for SA are true and not just a smokescreen, I don't think you can afford to waste a chance to nab and lock in a player like that, particularly when you're a market that doesn't usually attract that level of talent.

[Dverde]

Only other similar player to Fox that I’ve seen come up recently is Anfernee Simons. He’s a better 3 point shooter than Fox, but I think I’d rather have Fox.

[poopbox]

Ditto. I’d be f&$@ing pissed. He has too much potential to throw down in a poker game like that.

Mr Right this is where you earn your paycheck. Send Vassell with some FRPs without too much bite and get it done before the vultures show up.

I like Castle but I don't see why he would be untouchable in a Fox trade. He can't shoot for shit, and until he learns to do that it won't be possible for him to get much better. When you look at the history of our young players most of their shooting has improved by much, and goes like Branhim and Tre came into the league better shooters than Castle did.

[slick'81]

No way deal castle for foxx. Castle your moving to sg

[Mnky]

I disagree with that characterization. My argument would be that Fox is a very good player (an All-Star and former All-NBA level player) that fits our needs and wants to be here. That's about the best I can ever ask for as we aren't a typical trade destination and I'm not super interested in finding out if Wemby has made us one (All Time Great Tim Duncan wasn't enough to make us one).

Can you name some better commodities coming up for free agency or likely to be available via trade? Because Fox is a Top 25-30 player. Who do you think might be available sooner? The only one I can think of is KD, who is 1) old and 2) you can still get him even if you land Fox.



Well, what's great about our situation is that we have an abundance of draft capital. There is no reasonable proposal fox Fox that leaves us with no draft picks. It's practically impossible.




What established superstar do you have in mind, and how much do you think they'll cost? If Mitchell, Gobert, Bridges and KAT go for the prices they have, what do you think an "established superstar" will cost? There is the scenario where you are left with no draft picks.

Why would Fox walk away in a few years? You think he'll just retire from the game if he decides he doesn't like breakfast tacos? The only way this trade happens is if he is extending (like the OG and Siakam deals).

I find the "most competitive teams in the NBA with any consistency comes from building through picks" comment interesting. OKC's star came from a trade. BOS surrounded their big two with players acquired via trade. NYK is an entire roster full of guys they didn't draft. DEN has a key part of their core acquired via trade. Who are the consistently competitive teams that built through their picks? The Rockets and Grizz are probably the best examples, but Houston is recently competitive and the Grizz have been inconsistent due to injury.

You're using extreme situations now and just letting the arguments go.

Most of the teams you named all were built through the draft and they made a key trade to help. Their core was the draft outside of The Knicks which supports what I said. The draft is more successful than a big trade in getting and keeping a competitive team. That's not even an argument. It is what it is. Trades can absolutely help, the right one. Look at what the Timberwolves did this past year.

I agreed with Fox being a good player that should be had for the right price. It's the overpay of picks that has been the only arguing point. He isn't a superstar. That's not who he is. He is drawing superstar fantasy drafts with 4 first rounders going out plus a vassel or cassel and more.

Fox is not that type of star. That's the argument.

As far as the Duncan thing goes, spurs never had big money to begin with. Their stars are known for takingbig pay cuts. Kidd was arguably the best player in the NBA at a point and he wanted to come but didn't because of Tony. There aren't many teams who just bring in superstars outside of a handful of big markets. That's always been a media spin.

The argument was presented, 'If it doesn't work out, it won't be too bad." And I responded to that. I'm not sure where you're getting the Fox wants to leave story. But it would make sense and follow your story of people nor wanting to be in SA according to you.

Reiterate once more, Fox would be a welcome addition for a good price, not a superstar price. History has shown trading a superstar price doesn't usually work out. Most competitive teams built through the draft before making a play in free agency. We have two top 5 picks. We are two years into a legit rebuild. Manu said it best, they're 2-3 years away from competing. Those draft picks matter while they're not competing. They're more valuable than a play in spot player.

[Robz4000]

Feels like some of y'all think the top 15-20 players in the NBA grow on trees and every Lotto pick will someday be counted among that group.

For example, I love Castle but there's a much better chance he'll never be that calibur of NBA talent than there is he will. IF all these rumors about Fox's tunnel vision for SA are true and not just a smokescreen, I don't think you can afford to waste a chance to nab and lock in a player like that, particularly when you're a market that doesn't usually attract that level of talent.

You implying Fox is a top 15-20 NBA player?

[spurraider21]

You implying Fox is a top 15-20 NBA player?
not that its some end all be all authoritative source, but the ringer has him #19

it wouldnt be an outlandish claim

[RC_Drunkford]

Losing Castle would really hurt. I think he and Fox are a great backcourt.

Off the top of my head, Vassell fits better with Monk, DeRozan and Ellis. Castle seems like a bad fit with DeRozan especially.

On the other hand, Vassell has been playing more team-friendly ball of late. He hasn't been pissing me off as much lately. Hoping that the Kings are seeing the same thing.

Vassell also fits better with Fox, cause he won't be double teamed, ball denied and would get open shots galore.

[scott]

You're using extreme situations now and just letting the arguments go. Not sure what you are referring to, but would be happy to discuss if you clarify.


Most of the teams you named all were built through the draft and they made a key trade to help. Their core was the draft outside of The Knicks which supports what I said. The draft is more successful than a big trade in getting and keeping a competitive team. That's not even an argument. It is what it is. Trades can absolutely help, the right one. Look at what the Timberwolves did this past year.

The next Spurs dynasty will also be built through the draft in that we drafted Wemby. He is the core, just like Giannis is the core in MIL, Joker is the core in DEN, etc. Wemby isn't just a star, he's a superstar. I would compare it to BOS. Tatum and Brown were drafted, but pretty much the rest of the their main rotation was acquired via trade (Derrick, Jrue, Kristaps). They have some other guys they drafted (Prichard) who they drafted, and the Spurs will still have picks to add more players.


I agreed with Fox being a good player that should be had for the right price. It's the overpay of picks that has been the only arguing point. He isn't a superstar. That's not who he is. He is drawing superstar fantasy drafts with 4 first rounders going out plus a vassel or cassel and more.

Of course its about the right price. I haven't seen anyone dispute that. And pretty much everyone in this thread has said no to Vassell + Castle. The only way I'd do that is if it includes no picks (but I'd rather keep Castle and send out some picks, personally). It's correct Fox is not a superstar. Neither are Mitchell, Gobert, KAT, Bridges though. I'd put Fox in roughly the same category as those guys (Mitchell and KAT mostly, I'd put him above Gobert and Bridges).

The last Superstar trade we saw was for a 34 year old KD on a team that was blowing it up. That cost PHX 5 FRPs plus Bridges and Cam Johnson. In the event a true Superstar comes available, are you ready to pay THAT kind of price? The Spurs don't even have a Bridges or a Cam Johnson to trade.


Fox is not that type of star. That's the argument.

Who's making that argument? It seems like the only people making that argument are those out of touch with current NBA trade values and confusing a package of Vassell + 3 FRPs + SAC's swap (which is on the high end of what pretty much anyone has suggested in here) with a Superstar package. That is not a superstar package. There isn't a single superstar in this league you could acquire with that package (and when we say Superstar, we're talking about Shai, Jokic, Giannis, Luka, Curry, Lebron, KD, Wemby and maybe Tatum.)


As far as the Duncan thing goes, spurs never had big money to begin with. Their stars are known for takingbig pay cuts. Kidd was arguably the best player in the NBA at a point and he wanted to come but didn't because of Tony. There aren't many teams who just bring in superstars outside of a handful of big markets. That's always been a media spin.

The Spurs were a luxury tax team several times during the Duncan era. 2002, 2004, 2006, 2009, 2011. Their stars took pay cuts so the team could bring in more talent to compete. Kidd didn't not come here because of Tony, he didn't come here because his wife didn't want to move to San Antonio. The fact that aren't many teams who just bring in superstars outside of a handful of big markets is the point. San Antonio isn't one of those markets, so getting Top 25 talent isn't an avenue that is just always open to us.


The argument was presented, 'If it doesn't work out, it won't be too bad." And I responded to that. I'm not sure where you're getting the Fox wants to leave story. But it would make sense and follow your story of people nor wanting to be in SA according to you.

You must be confusing me with someone else, because I never made that argument, so I was confused that when it was in response to me. I'm actually not even sure what you're talking about at this point? I don't have a "Fox wants to leave story" - I was responding to when you said "Don't pay big for someone you're comfortable walking in a couple years."


Reiterate once more, Fox would be a welcome addition for a good price, not a superstar price. History has shown trading a superstar price doesn't usually work out. Most competitive teams built through the draft before making a play in free agency. We have two top 5 picks. We are two years into a legit rebuild. Manu said it best, they're 2-3 years away from competing. Those draft picks matter while they're not competing. They're more valuable than a play in spot player.

If history has shown trading a superstar price... why did you just say that you want to wait to trade for a superstar? Your words: "If you're shooting for the stars, just pay big and go for an established superstar." You're posts are really contradictory, but what I gather is that you just don't want to overpay for Fox. That's fine, none of us do.

[RC_Drunkford]

Does no one worry that Fox has been meh this year and that a lot of lineups in SAC without him actually have good numbers?

no, because according to Kings fans he's been checked out and only turned it on in the 4th occassionally. That means there is a whole nother gear there. Besides that, they were mostly coached by Mike Brown who's an idiotic Pop protégé and Fox played in line ups with Sabonis and DeRozan who both can't defend nor shoot 3s. He's also the best player on that team, not the 2nd option and plays with an injured hand. You're probably seeing 70% of what he's capable off right now.

[benefactor]

Feels like some of y'all think the top 15-20 players in the NBA grow on trees and every Lotto pick will someday be counted among that group.

For example, I love Castle but there's a much better chance he'll never be that calibur of NBA talent than there is he will. IF all these rumors about Fox's tunnel vision for SA are true and not just a smokescreen, I don't think you can afford to waste a chance to nab and lock in a player like that, particularly when you're a market that doesn't usually attract that level of talent.
Spurs fan: "We'll never get anyone! Star players hate SA!"

Also Spurs fan: "This star player isn't good enough! Let's wait for another one!"

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAtzYrD1i9Y

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17pijTxLfNA

[Dejounte]

The worst part is people thinking there will be a worthwhile star that will become available via trade AND be drama-free

[RC_Drunkford]

Agreed I just remember Tony Parker going on a fast decline after he turned 32. Once his first step was gone you could see how hard it was for Parker to be effective since Parker never had a good 3 point shot. Fox will have the same type of struggles once he loses his athleticism. Fox just turned 27 about a month ago so his window really is the next 3-5 years after that it's a question mark of how effective he will be due to age.

which is why you keep Castle, who will then enter his prime

[RC_Drunkford]

Tying up contracts becomes an issue. Free agents will want to play with Wemby, which is another reason I don't get selling the farm for a guy who wants to come to SA but only has 1 more year on his contract. After that year will be the real year spurs are likely to be competitive and he will be a free agent.

Things change fast in the NBA. Players we don't think would be availble suddenly come availble. Fox is the example. They were looking like title contenders just a couple years ago and he was the lead dog. Nows he's out?

I'd rather have the assets since we aren't competing anytime soon. It sucks as a fan to watch, but business wise makes more sense to

you seem to forget that 2 if not 3 of our assets will be gone by the offseason and the only thing left is ATL 27 and MIN 2031 plus swaps

[Mal]

The more I think about it, the more I would not pull the trigger at mid-season vs off season. We’re 2.5 games out of the 10th side and have the 12th most difficult SOS. Not insurmountable, but not great. Wouldn’t it be better to see where our picks fall, and re-assess price in the summer? Wouldn’t fox’s price be lower?

Picks tends to be worth more, when they are just picks.

[heyheymymy]

"I love castle, but" camp, my question is do you have eyes

[LeBowen]

Honestly, there's no point in bothering with some of the takes in here.
I'd just like to hear the anti-trade crowd to name at least a few realistic all-star targets that would be a good basketball, age, contract and asking price fit.
Spoiler alert - there aren't any, we went over it in detail god knows how many times.

Odds of all-stars becoming available before ~27 are non-existant. You can forget about young all-stars being available.
You either draft them, get underappreciated reclamation projects or wait for the final year of rookie max extensions when players like Fox or Markkanen potentially become available.
(inb4 wElL yOu DoN't KnOw WhO's GoInG tO bE aVaIlaBle ThIs SuMmEr CrOwD.)

Yes, we do fucking know because if you follow the league enough it's easy to predict.
Much like last year during Trae rumors I said Fox will be available soon because Kings aren't getting anywhere.
Right now, there are no other all-stars who could become available.
Edwards surely won't be available for a couple more years and it would take literally the entire franchise including the new practice facility to trade for him.
Luka will sign an extension this summer.
Markkanen might become available since he just keeps giving interviews about how he hates tanking.
That's it in the West. Or maybe people want Zion?
East? Herro and Maxey? Are those the big prizes someone wants?

As for the Booker talk, just forget about it.
Ishbia is obviously a degenerate and won't blow it up as long as Booker doesn't ask for a trade.
When he does, there's no way anyone beats the Rockets offer because they own Suns picks and got them from Brooklyn specifically because they want Booker.

Also, Booker over the past 2.5 seasons is at 35.3% from 3pt on 6.5 attempts.
Fox is at 34.5% on 6.4 attempts.
Less than 1% difference on identical volume.
Their stats across the board since Fox improved his 3pt shot are as close as it gets.
It's not even a contest who's a better fit because we're desperate for someone who can collapse defenses on consistent basis.
And yes, Fox is a way better defender. Playing defense with someone as awful as Sabonis behind you is an impossible task.
Another thing you have to ask is if Booker is even that good considering Suns fell off after supposedly washed CP3 left.

Anyhow, for us it's either Fox or development through draft.
With PATFO's record as of late, we'd just waste Wemby's entire rookie contract without getting anywhere.
We have a top5 player in the league and not being competitive as soon as the next season would be a huge disservice to him.

Top7 best odds for this year's lottery are already known, no way Spurs get in there.
After that, it doesn't really matter, looks like another draft with no depth.

Kings can't play hardball if Fox confirms he wants to leave.
Spurs can't lowball too much because there will be other interested parties.

As the usual reasonable posters said, Castle should be off the table, anything else goes.
I'd try to trade Devin because it's obvious he's not the guy and Kings just might be dumb enough to value him.
Long-term he has to go even if we get Fox and keep him.

Kings are a badly ran franchise, their ownership cares about selling the tickets and making the playoffs. That's it.
A team with Sabonis and Demar has no use for Castle this or the next season.
They have a similar player in Devin Carter, making Castle and even worse fit.

As I said already, they could use those Hawks picks to get Hunter which would be a fair trade for everyone.
We can also send Tre to be Monk's backup.
If they want to dump Huerter, fine.

[Dejounte]

You gotta imagine Barnes and Fox are texting each other back and forth right now

[Spursfanfromafar]

It's not a matter of if we need to trade for Fox. It's a no brainer. It is a question of what would be a fair trade for the Spurs. The ideal trade would be giving up a couple of picks along with Keldon and Tre Jones. If the Kings insist on Castle, the Spurs should lessen the number of picks. If they ask for Vassell, the Spurs should get Huerter too perhaps.

[CGD]

I still feel this goes into the summer. It unlocks Houston for SAC as a potential trade partner, who probably would prefer a deal centered around a Jalen Green and young players/picks. Reading their boards it seems like picks alone won’t do it for SAC.

[heyheymymy]

Fox buzz feels like it has legs but let's see. Yeah Fox legit makes me want to break the bank in a hefty offer, hoping we don't overpay out of eagerness lol. Fox is an absolutely tantalizing target for SA and really feels like the thing to come along that we've been waiting for. I'm not usually a big get type fan and typically resist the Trae, Zion, Lavine type proposals. But certain players like Markkanen and Fox it's like, you just get that hunch no question yes I'd do almost any deal to get that done.

Kinda weird how FRP quantity felt like a no-go for me this summer with Markk talks but now, for Fox, dude I'd dump a wheelbarrow full of FRPs like rain. Especially if it meant keeping Castle. Feels like this rollercoaster with ATL 25 plus the disappointment of Bran and Blake made me devalue picks a bit recently. They really are best as trade assets with distant random value. Once they zero in it's like a hole in the bottom of a boat. Besides, back then we always talked about bundling them into some established talent eventually- like we all said this was why we stockpiled them.

[LeBowen]

It's not a matter of if we need to trade for Fox. It's a no brainer. It is a question of what would be a fair trade for the Spurs. The ideal trade would be giving up a couple of picks along with Keldon and Tre Jones. If the Kings insist on Castle, the Spurs should lessen the number of picks. If they ask for Vassell, the Spurs should get Huerter too perhaps.

Kings ownership just wants to stay competitive enough to sell the tickets and make the playoffs. They don't want to fully rebuild and go back to being the worst team in the league.

https://i.imgur.com/VrIPGXo.png

Imo, their plan is obvious.
Keep competing while Sabonis is in his prime, they can't really afford to get just Castle for Fox because they'll be way worse this and the next season.
Sabonis/Monk/Murray/Carter/Ellis looks to be their core, they'll need to extend Murray this summer.
They also can't really move Demar, they just got him and noone will take him.
That's a core with no great shooters. Castle makes absolutely no sense whatsoever unless they plan to blow it up and start over.
Jeremy doesn't make sense for the same reason.

With Monk/?/DDR/Murray/Sabonis starting lineup, they'd ideally want a Klay reincarnate, but odds of that happening are low.
Ellis has been very good while Fox was out, idk if they think he can be the long-term SG solution.

The question presents itself would they want Devin because a lot of people around the league still think he has 3-D upside or would they prefer a pick-heavy package so they can get their guy somewhere else.
As mentioned in here already, they could be interested in Champagnie, but idk what's his actual value in a trade. Noone is going to offer a FRP (or equivalent value) for Champ, at that point it's not worth it for the Spurs.

Another really interesting thing is that there's kind of a SAS/SAC/ATL triangle for FRPs.
We all know we have '25 and '27 ATL picks with unprotected '26 swap.
But what's more interesting is that ATL owns '25 SAC pick. It's top12 protected in '25 and top10 in '26.
And we obvioulsy have unprotected '31 SAC swap.

Hunter is someone who would perfectly fit Kings' needs and I'm sure Hawks really want those picks back now that Johnson looks like an all-star in the making and they just drafted Risacher.
I'm not going to go into detail because I've got no clue what's going to happen, but my take would be that ATL is going to be involved in Fox to Spurs trade as a third team.

[tbdog]

^ Nice post.

Contract wise, Fox to Spurs, Keldon to Hawks, Tre Jones and Hunter to Kings work.

[Mikesatx]

Kings aren’t looking to rebuild so they value picks less than other teams. Just need a third team that does value picks and has a player the Kings like. That should allow the Spurs to keep Castle. Everyone else but Castle & Wemby is tradeable.

[LeBowen]

^ Nice post.

Contract wise, Fox to Spurs, Keldon to Hawks, Tre Jones and Hunter to Kings work.

I don't think they're dumb enough to accept Keldon.
Devin as the centerpiece seems like the only logical option.
'31 swap guaranteed to be extinguished.
I'm not sure if they'd also want Tre.

If it's Devin+Tre for Fox+Huerter, Spurs would need to add another $3M in salaries.
They'd obviously want Champ.
And I see Huerter as a negative contract.
I'd give them '31 swap back and two more FRPs if we're taking on Huerter and sending Champ out.

[cutewizard]

To the Spurs Front Office:

Please bring us Spurs fans to life, do it!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGF4sveUmn8

[onechance87]

exciting stuff going on

[TDomination]

"I love castle, but" camp, my question is do you have eyes
Seriously. trading castle with his potential and him being a rookie would be a huge mistake. Again, we have enough assets to make this trade without him.

[The Truth #6]

These rumors aren't real until I see a bunch of "news stories" about Fox's wife shopping for homes in the Dominion.

[Bruno]

Fox and Castle are a really poor fit to be paired in a backcourt. Fox is a ball dominant player and Castle isn't at all an off ball player because he isn't a good shooter. In a team with Fox and Wembanayama, Castle will be forced to play a role where he will struggle. Lowering Fox touches to let Castle shine isn't a good option because Fox himself isn't a good shooter.

A proper setup for Castle to flourish would be to either be paired with a SG like last year Vassell or to paired with a low usage and good shooting PG.

To me, if Spurs get Fox, they can't really keep Castle.

[Dejounte]

Fox and Castle are a really poor fit to be paired in a backcourt. Fox is a ball dominant player and Castle isn't at all an off ball player because he isn't a good shooter. In a team with Fox and Wembanayama, Castle will be forced to play a role where he will struggle. Lowering Fox touches to let Castle shine isn't a good option because Fox himself isn't a good shooter.

A proper setup for Castle to flourish would be to either be paired with a SG like last year Vassell or to paired with a low usage and good shooting PG.

To me, if Spurs get Fox, they can't really keep Castle.

Fuck fit, hoard talent as much as possible regardless. Fox is going to sit or get injured

[Spursfanfromafar]

Fox and Castle are a really poor fit to be paired in a backcourt. Fox is a ball dominant player and Castle isn't at all an off ball player because he isn't a good shooter. In a team with Fox and Wembanayama, Castle will be forced to play a role where he will struggle. Lowering Fox touches to let Castle shine isn't a good option because Fox himself isn't a good shooter.

A proper setup for Castle to flourish would be to either be paired with a SG like last year Vassell or to paired with a low usage and good shooting PG.

To me, if Spurs get Fox, they can't really keep Castle.

I agree. But I also think Castle is a rookie and needs to develop his shot.. so the Spurs can bear with him going through the paces till he gets there, which I think is likely considering he has a decent FT stroke. And that also means that the Spurs can't afford to lose Vassell. Which means that the Spurs have to offer Keldon plus Tre and picks or a long shot trade such as the one John Hollinger suggests -

From The Athletic trade blog -



If you’re looking for ways for De’Aaron Fox to end up in San Antonio, keep an eye on Detroit.

The Pistons are set up both roster-wise and cap-wise to take on a likely key element in any Fox deal, the $18 million contract of Harrison Barnes. Remember, because Sacramento traded Barnes to the Spurs this past offseason, he cannot be reacquiring by the Kings directly in a trade with the Spurs until after the season.
However, that restriction goes away if Barnes goes to a third team … such as the Pistons. Detroit is the league’s only team with practical cap space, operating $14 million below the cap, but have had disappointing results at the 4 from free-agent acquisition Tobias Harris.
Barnes makes $18 million this season and $19 million in 2025-26, but the Pistons can fit him by sending out at least $4 million in fungible salary to the Kings or Spurs in a three-way trade. By sending a reserve such as Simone Fontecchio to San Antonio ($7.7 million this year, $8.3 million in 2025-26), Detroit could take the Barnes contact into its cap room.
Solving for the Barnes issue would make the rest of a trade negotiation come together more easily, with luxury tax consideration out of the way for the Kings and draft compensation the key talking point. The Spurs could add Tre Jones to get the Kings through the season at point guard, and would only need a bit more salary on top of that to have the required salary match. (One note for my loyal readers: Paul Reed cannot be in this trade, sadly, because the Kings could really use him).
By not taking back Barnes, meanwhile, plus taking Jones’s $9.9 million salary into their unused non-taxpayer mid-level exception, and taking one or two other players into their three other trade exceptions (such as such as Detroit's Wendell Moore or San Antonio's Malaki Branham) the Kings would end up generating a $34.8 million trade exception for Fox that they could take into the offseason."

[poopbox]

I agree. But I also think Castle is a rookie and needs to develop his shot.. so the Spurs can bear with him going through the paces till he gets there, which I think is likely considering he has a decent FT stroke. And that also means that the Spurs can't afford to lose Vassell. Which means that the Spurs have to offer Keldon plus Tre and picks or a long shot trade such as the one John Hollinger suggests -

From The Athletic trade blog -

The problem is...there's a higher percentage chance that he doesn't develop his shot than there is that he does. If you just look at rookie guards who come in and shoot below 30% from 3 their rookie year like Castle... the overwhelming majority of them 4 years later don't even get up to 33% made. Castle would have to be a real outlier for his shooting to get up to where we would need it to be if he stays here and we get Fox, and he would need to probably be an above average catch and shoot player, which is getting into the high 30's range for 3's. Not sure it's realistic for a guy to make it their when he is starting at 25%. That's borderline "I can't shoot at all" territory.

[poopbox]

no, because according to Kings fans he's been checked out and only turned it on in the 4th occassionally. That means there is a whole nother gear there. Besides that, they were mostly coached by Mike Brown who's an idiotic Pop protégé and Fox played in line ups with Sabonis and DeRozan who both can't defend nor shoot 3s. He's also the best player on that team, not the 2nd option and plays with an injured hand. You're probably seeing 70% of what he's capable off right now.

Funny thing is Fox still seems to like Mike and I have a feeling that if he does end up here...Pop stops coaching and Mike is the new coach :lol

[z0sa]

If only we could pull this off without losing Vassell. I don’t see it though

[RC_Drunkford]

Fox and Castle are a really poor fit to be paired in a backcourt. Fox is a ball dominant player and Castle isn't at all an off ball player because he isn't a good shooter. In a team with Fox and Wembanayama, Castle will be forced to play a role where he will struggle. Lowering Fox touches to let Castle shine isn't a good option because Fox himself isn't a good shooter.

A proper setup for Castle to flourish would be to either be paired with a SG like last year Vassell or to paired with a low usage and good shooting PG.

To me, if Spurs get Fox, they can't really keep Castle.

not an ideal fit if Castle doesn't develop a shot, but I wouldn't call Fox ball dominant. He plays on a team with Sabonis and DeRozan. He can absolutely play off the ball and it would up his percentages.

[Seventyniner]

If it's a choice between Fox and Castle, Fox is the boat and Castle is the mystery box that might have a boat in it.

[WaywardTexan]

Without Chinook's input this thread has little to offer. Anyone heard from him?

[Dejounte]

If it's a choice between Fox and Castle, Fox is the boat and Castle is the mystery box that might have a boat in it.

People love the thrill of the unknown. It’s like a gambling addiction. Ask the Forever Tank Crew.

[LeBowen]

The problem is...there's a higher percentage chance that he doesn't develop his shot than there is that he does. If you just look at rookie guards who come in and shoot below 30% from 3 their rookie year like Castle... the overwhelming majority of them 4 years later don't even get up to 33% made. Castle would have to be a real outlier for his shooting to get up to where we would need it to be if he stays here and we get Fox, and he would need to probably be an above average catch and shoot player, which is getting into the high 30's range for 3's. Not sure it's realistic for a guy to make it their when he is starting at 25%. That's borderline "I can't shoot at all" territory.

Noone is saying that Castle will become a great shooter, but he'll surely improve.
And he's way ahead of some players that made big improvements.
Castle is at 26% on 3.8 attempts right now, DJ was at 26% on 0.4 attempts in his second year. That's a huge difference.

For me the issue isn't about Castle alone, but Castle/Jeremy duo.
It won't work if we trade for Fox without losing either.

Fox/Champ/Barnes with one of Castle or Jeremy is a fine perimeter lineup. It's just that both of them can't play together.
We can talk about wanting Wemby to play inside all we want, but it's not going to happen. He's going to play like a modern big and not a post player.
The dual playmaker theory with Castle/Fox attacking the paint works well in this case if we have three shooters around them.

Fox is arguably the fastest player in the league and an elite finisher.
Wemby is already making it impossible for bigs not to step out, duo with Fox would be unstoppable.

Fox is at 66% at 0-5ft this season on 202 attempts. That's while playing with the likes of Sabonis and Demar that provide no spacing.
62% of those makes were unassisted. He gets to the rim at will.

If we expand it to 0-14 ft, he's at 56% on 481 attempts.
70% of all his made shots inside the paint are unassisted.

Then you look at how our offense grinds to a halt because Castle and somewhat Keldon are the only players who can consistently get to the rim, with both of them being questionable finishers.
Our spacing isn't that horrible, it's just that often we take bad 3pts because we can't collapse the defense and the entire perimeter is covered.
We're 6th in 3pta and 13th in makes. Not great, but acceptable.
On the other hand, we're 25th in points in the paint.

[vy65]

Fox and Castle are a really poor fit to be paired in a backcourt. Fox is a ball dominant player and Castle isn't at all an off ball player because he isn't a good shooter. In a team with Fox and Wembanayama, Castle will be forced to play a role where he will struggle. Lowering Fox touches to let Castle shine isn't a good option because Fox himself isn't a good shooter.

A proper setup for Castle to flourish would be to either be paired with a SG like last year Vassell or to paired with a low usage and good shooting PG.

To me, if Spurs get Fox, they can't really keep Castle.

But how is that any different than when Castle was starting with CP3? Don’t fox and CP3 have similar offensive profiles in terms of game style?

[SpursBills]

Does anyone have Fox’s spot up numbers? Would be nice to see if he’s actually a mediocre shooter or whether he just has a difficult shot diet

[LeBowen]

Does anyone have Fox’s spot up numbers? Would be nice to see if he’s actually a mediocre shooter or whether he just has a difficult shot diet

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628368/shots-dash

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1628368/shooting

He's not a great 3pt shooter, his c&s and pull up stats are identical, around 33%.
And almost all of his 3pt shots are above the break.

There are some interesting stats in there.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Does anyone have Fox’s spot up numbers? Would be nice to see if he’s actually a mediocre shooter or whether he just has a difficult shot diet

From 3 (nba.com), catch and shoot numbers:
3FG Frequency, 3PM, 3PA, 3P%


15.7

, 1.0,

3.1,

32.5

[Mitch Cumsteen]

I'm not attached to anybody on the current roster beyond Vic and Castle. The picks are going to be what makes or breaks the deal. I think the picks are more important long term when you look down the road and Vic is supermaxed and how are you going to fill out the roster and stay away from the apron? We know this franchise isn't going there, so those picks have value not only as young developmental guys for cheap but as trade chips for role player vets on team friendly deals. Look at how handcuffed the Nuggets and Bucks are? It would kill me to watch Wemby in his prime playing on a team with zero depth.

[RC_Drunkford]

We don’t have any first round picks besides our own and Minnie‘s 20131 when Wemby signs the max

[DesignatedT]

Way too early to come to some sort of concrete conclusion about who and what type of player Castle will ultimately be or who fits next to him on the court long term. He just turned 20. There's tons of examples of players not truly hitting their stride until Years 3 or 4. Castle has shown all star talent though and is clearly a superior basketball player compared to Vassell to anyone who is actually watching. No problem getting rid of Vassell in a deal but I wouldn't want to move Castle.

[Spurminator]

Seriously. trading castle with his potential and him being a rookie would be a huge mistake. Again, we have enough assets to make this trade without him.

Not if the Kings insist on Castle being included. No one's saying they prefer Castle to be included in the trade, but if that's the deal breaker, I'm taking it.

[Atl Spur]

They aren’t trading castle…. Anyone advocating that is too shortsighted and really don’t know basketball. It is my belief, if you know about a San Antonio trade there is no San Antonio trade. However, we shall see…

[spurraider21]

The worst part is people thinking there will be a worthwhile star that will become available via trade AND be drama-free
And can be had without giving up a player we liked

even the old man agreed to trade his pet George Hill

[poopbox]

KD will be available this offseason. I’d rather go for him. I’d love for Hou to trade for Fox seeing as they are our biggest competitors to get KD. Maybe we get KD and Hou gets Booker and Phoenix does an extreme reset? That would be my hope but either way I’d decline Fox for now.

Every single non warriors KD team has imploded but that is the guy you want the spurs to go after :lol

[Atl Spur]

And can be had without giving up a player we liked

even the old man agreed to trade his pet George Hill

Let’s not forget kind sir, the whole talk was about trading Tony Parker at the time….. stop trying to make points fit narratives:)

[poopbox]

:lmao at all the people here who are like "this guard we drafted in one of the weakest drafts ever barely averaging 10 points for a team with a losing record shooting in the mid 20 on almost nothing but wide open 3's has all this untapped potential we shouldn't trade him" :lmao

Type of people you give a million dollars to and they just put it under their mattress and let it rot

[Atl Spur]

Patfo fucked Indiana….. George Hill for Kawhi? Chess no Checkers

[LeBowen]

[Charania] DeAaron Fox’s top destination is the San Antonio Spurs and he would be reluctant to signing a long term contract in Sacramento or anywhere else if traded

Me and the boys waiting for Wright to make the right move:

https://c.tenor.com/OKiv7FrpxLgAAAAd/tenor.gif

[baseline bum]

Me and the boys waiting for Wright to make the right move:

https://c.tenor.com/OKiv7FrpxLgAAAAd/tenor.gif

I don't see that on Shams' twitter. Where'd did you see him say that?

[LeBowen]

I don't see that on Shams' twitter. Where'd did you see him say that?

Klutch Sports CEO Rich Paul has a strategic destination in mind!

https://streamable.com/ka3m63



(https://streamable.com/ka3m63)

[Spurminator]

They aren’t trading castle…. Anyone advocating that is too shortsighted and really don’t know basketball.

Can't argue with that fool-proof logic. :lol Solid points!

Go compare his rookie statline to the rookie years of Dennis Smith Jr, Kevin Knox, and Emmanuel Mudiay and tell me Stephon Castle is on a guaranteed All-Star trajectory.

[KingKev]

:lmao at all the people here who are like "this guard we drafted in one of the weakest drafts ever barely averaging 10 points for a team with a losing record shooting in the mid 20 on almost nothing but wide open 3's has all this untapped potential we shouldn't trade him" :lmao

Type of people you give a million dollars to and they just put it under their mattress and let it rot

hahah too early to tell in Castle but some truth to this! Unless they are seeing something in practice we aren’t he should definitely be on the table, especially if the Kings value him.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

We don’t have any first round picks besides our own and Minnie‘s 20131 when Wemby signs the max

They can and will trade them forward, just like they did with the Dillingham pick.

[Russ]

If it's a choice between Fox and Castle, Fox is the boat and Castle is the mystery box that might have a boat in it.

Castle is seven years younger.

[RC_Drunkford]

They can and will trade them forward, just like they did with the Dillingham pick.

no they won‘t and if they did it would be like trading 1$ now for 50 cent in 4 years

[Seventyniner]

Castle is seven years younger.

He is nowhere near as good as Fox is now and may never get there. That's the risk.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ziUaEDO9Kk

[Uriel]

I don't know enough about Fox's game to make a very informed assessment. But I do know two things: one, that he's 27 years old, and two, that speed and athleticism, which are hallmarks of his game, are some of the first things that tend to decline once you're over age 30.

Wembanyama is 21. Once he hits his prime, Fox might already be beginning to decline. That's not a great recipe for building a multi-year championship dynasty.

That's not to say we shouldn't trade for Fox. I absolutely think for the right deal we should. But I wouldn't be so locked in on making a deal that we would give up the house for it.

[LeBowen]

Figures for De'Aaron Fox's next contract:
Supermax (if eligible with SAC only): five years, $345M
Max via re-signing/extending: five years, $296M

Max if signing w/ another team as FA: four years, $219M

$60M looks steep, but that contract would start in 2026, it's the usual 30% max.

[Kevin]

Castle's realistic max potential outcome is a DJM, Derrick White, Jrue Holiday level player. A really nice two way guard with PG skills who probably averages 15/5/5. I just don't see realistic supernova potential in Castle.

[Strategic]

I’d hate to see Vassell or Castle go, but someone has to say goodbye to make it work. I think Fox would work well with either one as a Spur. Being able to score is the main thing for me. I hate to think this, but Sac looks more organized on offense than the Spurs. As much as that sucks to believe, I wonder how many of Fox’s points can be accredited to their system. What I’m also wondering is that if the traded player is Vassell will Devin be scoring 25/game next year while Fox drops down to 20 for the Spurs. Maybe a consistent 20 is enough, who knows. Wonder if Fox’s shooting hand ligament damage is still a problem or is he just wearing tape? Not unheard of. Spurs, make a good deal please.

[LeBowen]

Wembanyama is 21. Once he hits his prime, Fox might already be beginning to decline. That's not a great recipe for building a multi-year championship dynasty.


Wemby is already a borderline top5 player in the league, his age doesn't matter.
Who's to say that Wemby will be injury free in his late 20s?

When you have a top5 player in the league, you build around them to win, you don't waste years of their career because noone knows what future holds.
Obviously we don't want to blow our load too early, but with Fox and a couple more trades for legit starters, we could be a top contender in 26-27 season, with Wemby winning the MVP.

[Russ]

He is nowhere near as good as Fox is now and may never get there. That's the risk.

True. Fox has elite speed that only Ja can rival. Fox is a unique talent.

But where will Fox and Castle be in five years when it matters more.

Ideally, the Spurs could have both.

Castle should not be the trade piece.

[KingKev]

It is interesting they want win now players. Outside of Wemby we have none. To get this deal done we likely need to get a 3rd team involved or overpay with draft capital. Devin Vassell, given his contract, defensive limitations, injury history and chucker status is worth a FRP at most himself. Remember that gents.

[KingKev]

I don't know enough about Fox's game to make a very informed assessment. But I do know two things: one, that he's 27 years old, and two, that speed and athleticism, which are hallmarks of his game, are some of the first things that tend to decline once you're over age 30.

Wembanyama is 21. Once he hits his prime, Fox might already be beginning to decline. That's not a great recipe for building a multi-year championship dynasty.

That's not to say we shouldn't trade for Fox. I absolutely think for the right deal we should. But I wouldn't be so locked in on making a deal that we would give up the house for it.

This timeline narrative needs to die. Wemby is ready to win now.

[DPG21920]

It is interesting they want win now players. Outside of Wemby we have none. To get this deal done we likely need to get a 3rd team involved or overpay with draft capital. Devin Vassell, given his contract, defensive limitations, injury history and chucker status is worth a FRP at most himself. Remember that gents.

Bulls and Lavine make sense. Especially since Sa has bulls pick

[Mal]

Still havent hear shit about potential trade package

[LeBowen]

Bulls and Lavine make sense. Especially since Sa has bulls pick

Hawks just lost Johnson and they make the most sense.
Devin+Tre+Hunter, Spurs returning their '31 swap and Hawks returning '25 SAC would be good value for Fox.

I'm fine with giving up Hawks picks, Kings swap, Devin and Tre.

[Baam]

Meh trading for Fox seems like a great way to stay on the treadmill but w/e.

[SupremeGuy]

Everyone except Wemby and Castle. If they push for Castle, on top of KJ, Socham, FRPs... nah.

[Mr. Body]

I don't know enough about Fox's game to make a very informed assessment. But I do know two things: one, that he's 27 years old, and two, that speed and athleticism, which are hallmarks of his game, are some of the first things that tend to decline once you're over age 30.

Wembanyama is 21. Once he hits his prime, Fox might already be beginning to decline. That's not a great recipe for building a multi-year championship dynasty.

That's not to say we shouldn't trade for Fox. I absolutely think for the right deal we should. But I wouldn't be so locked in on making a deal that we would give up the house for it.

Small speed-first dude who already can't really shoot who is already 27, looking for money over anything else, doesn't play defense, is high usage, and will be making over $50 million a year when he's in his thirties when he'll definitely be declining. Klutch/Fox know he needs to get his bag now.

[Mr. Body]

Still havent hear shit about potential trade package

Because this is Klutch trying to get their client as much money as possible. There's nothing real here.

[DPG21920]

Hawks just lost Johnson and they make the most sense.
Devin+Tre+Hunter, Spurs returning their '31 swap and Hawks returning '25 SAC would be good value for Fox.

I'm fine with giving up Hawks picks, Kings swap, Devin and Tre.

Sure - but I said CHI because we at least have reports of Bulls being sellers. We have not heard that out of ATL but they may pivot with being a fringe PO again and more injuries.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT7RD68-qg4&t=1209s

[DPG21920]

Hawks just lost Johnson and they make the most sense.
Devin+Tre+Hunter, Spurs returning their '31 swap and Hawks returning '25 SAC would be good value for Fox.

I'm fine with giving up Hawks picks, Kings swap, Devin and Tre.

Would you be fine trading Cooper Flagg + Devin + Tre + another pick for Fox? You can live with that?

[LeBowen]

Would you be fine trading Cooper Flagg + Devin + Tre + another pick for Fox? You can live with that?

Hawks already have 22 wins.
They'll reach at least 30 no matter what.
There are 6 teams that won't reach 30 wins, probably 7.

8th best odds are as high as Hawks pick will go.
You're telling me you wouldn't trade that pick for a 6% Flagg lottery ticket?
26% to get a top4 pick. If it's not top4, then it's 8th or lower.

I'm not going down this road again, I was sick of you people in Markkanen topic.
We got lucky three years in a row, anyone who thinks 26% odds are better to keep than a proven all-star player sucks at math.

I would rather trade all 3 Hawks picks than Castle.

[Mal]

Because this is Klutch trying to get their client as much money as possible. There's nothing real here.

When Fox can do sign and trade to play where he wants for as much money as Klutch can get him ?

[Mr. Body]

When Fox can do sign and trade to play where he wants for as much money as Klutch can get him ?

He loses money if he gets traded and gets an extension there rather than Sacto. He's desperate to get traded now because he loses more money if this doesn't happen until the off-season. And it's not a sign and trade anyway.

[DPG21920]

Hawks already have 22 wins.
They'll reach at least 30 no matter what.
There are 6 teams that won't reach 30 wins, probably 7.

8th best odds are as high as Hawks pick will go.
You're telling me you wouldn't trade that pick for a 6% Flagg lottery ticket?
26% to get a top4 pick. If it's not top4, then it's 8th or lower.

I'm not going down this road again, I was sick of you people in Markkanen topic.
We got lucky three years in a row, anyone who thinks 26% odds are better to keep than a proven all-star player sucks at math.

I would rather trade all 3 Hawks picks than Castle.

So then your answer is yes. You would defend your stance even if the balls bounced SA way and that ATL pick became Flagg. On top of 2 other firsts and players. Thats fine. Im not cool with that, but fair enough if you are. I just want to outline the possibility here.

[Mal]

He loses money if he gets traded and gets an extension there rather than Sacto. He's desperate to get traded now because he loses more money if this doesn't happen until the off-season. And it's not a sign and trade anyway.

Californa to Texas is huge gain on taxes, so this would level. Thanks

[Mal]

Hawks already have 22 wins.
They'll reach at least 30 no matter what.
There are 6 teams that won't reach 30 wins, probably 7.

8th best odds are as high as Hawks pick will go.
You're telling me you wouldn't trade that pick for a 6% Flagg lottery ticket?
26% to get a top4 pick. If it's not top4, then it's 8th or lower.

I'm not going down this road again, I was sick of you people in Markkanen topic.
We got lucky three years in a row, anyone who thinks 26% odds are better to keep than a proven all-star player sucks at math.

I would rather trade all 3 Hawks picks than Castle.

Two aspects - Spurs with Fox could sneak in into playins. Without the trade, you would have two 6% tickets.

[DPG21920]

Fox has been an all star exactly one time btw….and hes due 50M+ on top of possible Flagg and multiple other picks and players.

[Leetonidas]

Cooper Flagg is a pipe dream and an extremely unlikely possibility anyway. I see no reason to worry about that when you have a chance to get Fox. There's no guarantee Flagg will ever be as good as Fox is. This isn't a draft with Wemby or LeBron as the headliner.

[RC_Drunkford]

I think this will drag out to the offseason. Kings are probably just testing the market. In free agency the Rockets should be making a more significant offer to up the price, but who knows.

[Leetonidas]

And :lol at Mr Body's usual contrarian stance. Yes, it's all fake despite multiple legit reporters talking about it, the Kings beat writer reporting it, and even one of the French reporters that followed Victor here is reporting it. But yeah let's take Body's word for it because he knows more than those guys! :lol

[DPG21920]

Cooper Flagg is a pipe dream and an extremely unlikely possibility anyway. I see no reason to worry about that when you have a chance to get Fox. There's no guarantee Flagg will ever be as good as Fox is. This isn't a draft with Wemby or LeBron as the headliner.

Crazy. As good as Fox is? The bar isn’t high here lol. Fox has zero playoff series wins. He’s a ONE time all star. What exactly do yall think Fox is?

[DPG21920]

I think this will drag out to the offseason. Kings are probably just testing the market. In free agency the Rockets should be making a more significant offer to up the price, but who knows.

The longer this drags out the better for SA. The best case scenario is some other team trading for Fox while SA keeps assets and Fox leaves in FA to Spurs. Just like Kawhi/TOR etc…

If SAC holds Fox past deadline, they lose value in trade in offseason IMO

[spurraider21]

Fox has been an all star exactly one time btw….and hes due 50M+ on top of possible Flagg and multiple other picks and players.
all-nba as well

[Mal]

Cooper Flagg is a pipe dream and an extremely unlikely possibility anyway. I see no reason to worry about that when you have a chance to get Fox. There's no guarantee Flagg will ever be as good as Fox is. This isn't a draft with Wemby or LeBron as the headliner.

If this is Fox or Flagg, I am TeamFlagg

[LeBowen]

So then your answer is yes. You would defend your stance even if the balls bounced SA way and that ATL pick became Flagg. On top of 2 other firsts and players. Thats fine. Im not cool with that, but fair enough if you are. I just want to outline the possibility here.

Gambling on 26% odds after all the luck we've had as of late is just bad decision making.
I can't understand how can anyone possibly think that such low odds are better than a proven all-star in prime.

Last summer about half of this forum was raving about the golden tickets we got from the Hawks while some of us were trying to explain that there's no way they get top5 best odds with no incentive to tank.
And look what happened? They're probably going to make the play-in even without Johnson.


Fox has been an all star exactly one time btw

As I said many times, please do name a better REALISTIC target.
There aren't any, went over it many times.


….and hes due 50M+

It's a 30% max.
Same as always.
For us fans it's irrelevant if 30% amounts to 10, 20 or 60M a year when it's always 30% of total cap space.


on top of possible Flagg and multiple other picks and players.

Spurs draft picks before Wemby: Sochan, Branham, Wesley, Primo, Vassell, Keldon, Samanic.
7 FRPs, including 3 lottery picks.

And the 6% golden ticket!
I sincerely hope you don't gamble, you'd be homeless within a year unless you're the luckiest man on the planet.

[Spurminator]

So then your answer is yes. You would defend your stance even if the balls bounced SA way and that ATL pick became Flagg. On top of 2 other firsts and players. Thats fine. Im not cool with that, but fair enough if you are. I just want to outline the possibility here.

Hindsight is 20/20. You bet the odds, not the best case scenario.

[spurraider21]

The longer this drags out the better for SA. The best case scenario is some other team trading for Fox while SA keeps assets and Fox leaves in FA to Spurs. Just like Kawhi/TOR etc…

If SAC holds Fox past deadline, they lose value in trade in offseason IMO
they lose a lot of value in the offseason. if a team isnt convinced that fox will re-sign with them, trading for him now means you at least get 2 playoff runs with him before that time. waiting until the offseason cuts that in half

[Leetonidas]

Crazy. As good as Fox is? The bar isn’t high here lol. Fox has zero playoff series wins. He’s a ONE time all star. What exactly do yall think Fox is?

I think he is a good player that has languished in a bad situation because of one of the worst front offices in the NBA. He also played guard during the peak of guys like Harden, Curry, and Lillard in the West and his team was ass most of those years so it's easy to see why he hasn't got a lot of all star selections. He is also a #2 that has been forced to be #1 out of necessity. If Kings didn't whiff buy by taking Bagley instead of Luka who knows how he'd be viewed by now.

Let's not forget Atlanta won the lottery last season. The chance of that happening twice in a row are astronomical. It's like saying you don't want to accept a new higher paying job because you might win the lottery next week

[Leetonidas]

If this is Fox or Flagg, I am TeamFlagg

Obviously. But the chance of that happening are extremely miniscule. Spurs already lucked out massively by winning the Wemby lottery. Do you really think it's going to happen again this season when ATL will probably still not be a bottom 5 team?

I'd prefer to keep the ATL pick for what it's worth. I'm just saying the idea of keeping it off the table because we could get Flagg is silly. It's far, FAR more likely that it doesn't happen

[Mal]

Let's not forget Atlanta won the lottery last season. The chance of that happening twice in a row are astronomical. It's like saying you don't want to accept a new higher paying job because you might win the lottery next week

You may only say that if those things are correlated, but those arent. 3% or 6% is excatly it. Wemby to Spurs was 14%.

[montgod]

Crazy. As good as Fox is? The bar isn’t high here lol. Fox has zero playoff series wins. He’s a ONE time all star. What exactly do yall think Fox is?

Yeah I'm in agreement. I'd rather see what FO gets from this strong draft/offseason (build up that depth/talent, trade off players we know don't fit) and continue the course vs giving up picks and muddling cap space for the future for Fox. Fox is definitely a good player, better than any pg Spurs currently has but to me, just not a difference maker to say contention is right there with his addition at 27yrs old and make this team a contender for the long term.

[DPG21920]

all-nba as well

Yup. One time both all nba and all star. Not nothing, but coupled with age, lack of any playoff success and him doing nothing sustainable at all nba/all star level its a reason to be prudent IMO.

Not knocking him - not everyone is Luka etc…but I dont believe that passing on Fox comes with a lot of risk either. Theres always Fox types available especially if you’re willing to offer 5 firsts etc…

[KingKev]

Hawks just lost Johnson and they make the most sense.
Devin+Tre+Hunter, Spurs returning their '31 swap and Hawks returning '25 SAC would be good value for Fox.

I'm fine with giving up Hawks picks, Kings swap, Devin and Tre.

It’s going to tale multiple FRPs to get this done. Probably 3-4.

[Atl Spur]

Can't argue with that fool-proof logic. :lol Solid points!

Go compare his rookie statline to the rookie years of Dennis Smith Jr, Kevin Knox, and Emmanuel Mudiay and tell me Stephon Castle is on a guaranteed All-Star trajectory.

Brother, numbers can’t quantify the abilities this young fella has displayed… For the record, I believe he’ll blow those players careers out of the water. Size, skill, speed, and bbiq can’t be ignored.

[DPG21920]

Gambling on 26% odds after all the luck we've had as of late is just bad decision making.
I can't understand how can anyone possibly think that such low odds are better than a proven all-star in prime.

Last summer about half of this forum was raving about the golden tickets we got from the Hawks while some of us were trying to explain that there's no way they get top5 best odds with no incentive to tank.
And look what happened? They're probably going to make the play-in even without Johnson.



As I said many times, please do name a better REALISTIC target.
There aren't any, went over it many times.



It's a 30% max.
Same as always.
For us fans it's irrelevant if 30% amounts to 10, 20 or 60M a year when it's always 30% of total cap space.



Spurs draft picks before Wemby: Sochan, Branham, Wesley, Primo, Vassell, Keldon, Samanic.
7 FRPs, including 3 lottery picks.

And the 6% golden ticket!
I sincerely hope you don't gamble, you'd be homeless within a year unless you're the luckiest man on the planet.

Your calculations are off. You are presenting it as Fox or terrible odds. There’s lots of paths and you dont lose anything by gambling on picks since theres always a Fox type available (either via trade, possible free agency or draft)

[itzsoweezee]

Obviously. But the chance of that happening are extremely miniscule. Spurs already lucked out massively by winning the Wemby lottery. Do you really think it's going to happen again this season when ATL will probably still not be a bottom 5 team?

I'd prefer to keep the ATL pick for what it's worth. I'm just saying the idea of keeping it off the table because we could get Flagg is silly. It's far, FAR more likely that it doesn't happen

I haven’t been following the 2025 draft much. But last year, people were saying there were multiple potential superstars in this coming draft. Is that not the case?

I’m skeptical the spurs will make a trade before the deadline. They do not seem to be in a hurry.

[Mal]

I'd prefer to keep the ATL pick for what it's worth. I'm just saying the idea of keeping it off the table because we could get Flagg is silly. It's far, FAR more likely that it doesn't happen

I would trade this, as it is today - the lotto ticket. 3 or 6% seems low, but best odds are still only 14%. Everybody, tanking or not, needs to get extremly lucky

[Atl Spur]

Crazy. As good as Fox is? The bar isn’t high here lol. Fox has zero playoff series wins. He’s a ONE time all star. What exactly do yall think Fox is?

What do I think he is? Not a spur����

[DPG21920]

Hindsight is 20/20. You bet the odds, not the best case scenario.

But you have to be able to defend the outcomes either way. Even if low odds, you must gameplan and evaluate all outcomes here. It factors into cost you are willing to go to to get him.

Im not saying you cant trade ATL 25 pick in a deal; but IF you do that, you limit the “other” compensation due to potential here.

[DPG21920]

they lose a lot of value in the offseason. if a team isnt convinced that fox will re-sign with them, trading for him now means you at least get 2 playoff runs with him before that time. waiting until the offseason cuts that in half

Spot on. Not only that, as it becomes more clear that Fox is not signing extension vs now there being some hope it “can change” you lose a ton of value as you said. Dragging this out would be amazing and I hope SA holds firm on price and calls Kings bluff on keeping him through this season

[Raven]

wow, it's really happening... i wonder what the asking price is..

[LeBowen]

Your calculations are off.

No, they're not.


You are presenting it as Fox or terrible odds.

Because it is.


There’s lots of paths and you dont lose anything by gambling on picks since theres always a Fox type available (either via trade, possible free agency or draft)

As I've asked about 200 times since last summer, WHAT PATHS ARE THOSE?

PLEASE GIVE ME AT LEAST A COUPLE OF REALISTIC (KEY WORD) ALL-STAR TARGETS YOUNGER THAN 30 SPURS COULD GET IN 2025 OR 2026 OFFSEASONS?



Yes, I got triggered hard because I'm fucking sick of you people who ignore thousands of well thought out posts and scenarios only to say "aCtUaLlY, tHeRe'S gOiNg To Be A bEtTeR pLaYeR aVaIlaBlE", only to never actually fucking name a single realistic target.

[montgod]

Yup. One time both all nba and all star. Not nothing, but coupled with age, lack of any playoff success and him doing nothing sustainable at all nba/all star level its a reason to be prudent IMO.

Not knocking him - not everyone is Luka etc…but I dont believe that passing on Fox comes with a lot of risk either. Theres always Fox types available especially if you’re willing to offer 5 firsts etc…

Yeah couldn't have said it better. I mean, I'm sure you could get a poorman's Fox in Sexton at a cheaper rate if you really wanted to among other pgs who are available. At this point, Spurs have other areas they need to solidify than to give up so many assets for a pg that isn't the team's main/only weakness.

[DPG21920]

No, they're not.



Because it is.



As I've asked about 200 times since last summer, WHAT PATHS ARE THOSE?

PLEASE GIVE ME AT LEAST A COUPLE OF REALISTIC (KEY WORD) ALL-STAR TARGETS YOUNGER THAN 30 SPURS COULD GET IN 2025 OR 2026 OFFSEASONS?



Yes, I got triggered hard because I'm fucking sick of you people who ignore thousands of well thought out posts and scenarios only to say "aCtUaLlY, tHeRe'S gOiNg To Be A bEtTeR pLaYeR aVaIlaBlE", only to never actually fucking name a single realistic target.

Luka, Ant Man, Lauri, Trae

[LeBowen]

Luka, Ant Man, Lauri, Trae

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao


realistic
/ˌrɪəˈlɪstɪk/



adjective
adjective: realistic



1.
having or showing a sensible and practical idea of what can be achieved or expected.



Are you sure you're a sane individual?
Yeah, we'll keep that Hawks pick with 6% odds, then wait for Luka to become a free agent in 2026 and then we'll trade for Ant with our 20131 Minnesota swap.

I just can't, I give up.

Luka is going to sign a massive extension this summer, there's no indication he wants to leave.
Minnesota will probably crumble soon, but it's going to be at least 2 more years before Edwards asks out.
And when he does, it's going to cost the entire franchise including the new practice facility to get thim.

Trae isn't good enough, Lauri decided to stay with Utah.
I'd also prefer Lauri to Fox, but it won't happen.

[Wu36]

Castle isn’t a normal player mentality. He wants to win and prove himself. He seems more like the type to take team friendly deals. To me I wouldn’t include him in a Fox deal. Castle is a no nonsense type that will put in the work to try and be great

[RC_Drunkford]

Yup. One time both all nba and all star. Not nothing, but coupled with age, lack of any playoff success and him doing nothing sustainable at all nba/all star level its a reason to be prudent IMO.


27 is old now? :lol


Theres always Fox types available especially if you’re willing to offer 5 firsts etc…

really? Who for example? How many Foxes are there in the NBA right now?

[BatManu20]

1884614032063111424

1884637478901907576

[Mal]

PLEASE GIVE ME AT LEAST A COUPLE OF REALISTIC (KEY WORD) ALL-STAR TARGETS YOUNGER THAN 30 SPURS COULD GET IN 2025 OR 2026 OFFSEASONS?

Would you say it about Fox being available a year ago ?

But hell, I dont see Boston keeping up having 200 mil roster for multiple years, so we may assume Brown could be traded.
Minnesota can dismantle easily.
Mavs as well.

Oklahoma and Houston will get only better, at some point owners would not want be in luxury tax.

Best approach to this, is just stay put, loaded with ammo, and wait. There will be another superstar on trade market evenatually

[DPG21920]

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao




Are you sure you're a sane individual?
Yeah, we'll keep that Hawks pick with 6% odds, then wait for Luka to become a free agent in 2026 and then we'll trade for Ant with our 20131 Minnesota swap.

I just can't, I give up.

Luka is going to sign a massive extension this summer, there's no indication he wants to leave.
Minnesota will probably crumble soon, but it's going to be at least 2 more years before Edwards asks out.
And when he does, it's going to cost the entire franchise including the new practice facility to get thim.

Trae isn't good enough, Lauri decided to stay with Utah.
I'd also prefer Lauri to Fox, but it won't happen.

So I give them to you and you agree with 50% of them, but still laugh? So you actually weren’t thinking about it, we’re trying to frame it as fox of bust and its just flat out wrong

[LeBowen]

Would you say it about Fox being available a year ago ?

Yes, and I actually did on multiple occasions when we listed possible long-term targets.
It was inevitable.
Kings are a team that reached their peak, he's close to the end of his contract, just a natural course of events.
He's 27 and doesn't want to spend his prime on a treadmill team.

Can't compare it to Luka who just made the finals or Ant who's extension just kicked in and runs through 2029.
Ant will be in the same situation as Fox in 2027 or 2028, it's too early to think about him now.

And by then, our Hawks assets will be gone.

Markkanen was a realistic target, Fox is a realistic target, Booker is unreachable for us because Houston owns Suns picks and that's his destination.
Younger players early in their rookie max extension aren't realistic.
Just yesterday we listed all the 2025 and 2026 free agents, it's just some solid role players.
Naz Reid and Aldama being the best targets for us.


So I give them to you and you agree with 50% of them, but still laugh? So you actually weren’t thinking about it, we’re trying to frame it as fox of bust and its just flat out wrong

How can I not laugh when you list Luka who's about to sign the biggest extension in NBA history and be under contract up until 20131 and Edwards who's under contract up until 2029?
Your posts are textbook examples of wishful thinking from someone who just follows the Spurs and doesn't know much about the rest of the league.

Markkanen and Fox are the only under-30, all-star realistic targets for us.
And Trae if you think he's actually a net positive, which most people don't.

[DPG21920]

27 is old now? :lol



really? Who for example? How many Foxes are there in the NBA right now?

How many one time all stars around his age that are good but not amazing and due large deals or just got large deals? A lot tbh…Trae, Lauri, Jaylen Brown, Barnes, Lavine, Beal etc..

[baseline bum]

Because this is Klutch trying to get their client as much money as possible. There's nothing real here.

That has always been the motivation for Rich Paul to get a client to San Antonio, so they can ride Wemby to being on national TV all the time, hopefully in deep playoff runs, and make more in endorsements.

[CGD]

1884614032063111424

1884637478901907576

Yeah, i would wait until summer. Start a convo now, and squeeze the Kings like Toronto squeezed us to get their best starting point for the then. Not saying he's coming for peanuts obviously, but at least use this it to get Top 1 protections on any 2025 picks sent out.

[baseline bum]

How many one time all stars around his age that are good but not amazing and due large deals or just got large deals? A lot tbh…Trae, Lauri, Jaylen Brown, Barnes, Lavine, Beal etc..

Finals MVP Jaylen Brown?

[Mugen]

That has always been the motivation for Rich Paul to get a client to San Antonio, so they can ride Wemby to being on national TV all the time, hopefully in deep playoff runs, and make more in endorsements.

You're telling me Keldon ain't enough? :lol

[spurraider21]

even if we grant the bizarre scenario where either Luka or Ant Man become "available" during the 25-26 or 26-27 seasons... wtf do you think the cost is going to be to acquire either one? i dont think this is remotely realistic. you'd have to give every good player on the team other than wemby plus just about every first round pick we own and swap the rest.

[DPG21920]

Yes, and I actually did on multiple occasions when we listed possible long-term targets.
It was inevitable.
Kings are a team that reached their peak, he's close to the end of his contract, just a natural course of events.
He's 27 and doesn't want to spend his prime on a treadmill team.

Can't compare it to Luka who just made the finals or Ant who's extension just kicked in and runs through 2029.
Ant will be in the same situation as Fox in 2027 or 2028, it's too early to think about him now.

And by then, our Hawks assets will be gone.

Markkanen was a realistic target, Fox is a realistic target, Booker is unreachable for us because Houston owns Suns picks and that's his destination.
Younger players early in their rookie max extension aren't realistic.
Just yesterday we listed all the 2025 and 2026 free agents, it's just some solid role players.
Naz Reid and Aldama being the best targets for us.



How can I not laugh when you list Luka who's about to sign the biggest extension in NBA history and be under contract up until 20131 and Edwards who's under contract up until 2029?
Your posts are textbook examples of wishful thinking from someone who just follows the Spurs and doesn't know much about the rest of the league.

Markkanen and Fox are the only under-30, all-star realistic targets for us.
And Trae if you think he's actually a net positive, which most people don't.

You realize theres already reports about Luka right? How you can act like this never happens after seeing Kawhi, after seeing Mitchell, after seeing Harden and KD etc….its ludicrous

[DPG21920]

Finals MVP Jaylen Brown?

Yes. Just like being a one time all star. Accolades happen. These are all very good players we are talking about so its not surprising they can have a great season or PO series etc…

[DPG21920]

even if we grant the bizarre scenario where either Luka or Ant Man become "available" during the 25-26 or 26-27 seasons... wtf do you think the cost is going to be to acquire either one? i dont think this is remotely realistic

Whatever it takes. If that’s the case, Castle + every pick is on the table. Fox is not that guy or anywhere close to it is the point. The opportunity cost is not the same. If SA passes on Fox, they will be just fine is the point.

[paperboy77]

I think this will drag out to the offseason. Kings are probably just testing the market. In free agency the Rockets should be making a more significant offer to up the price, but who knows.

Houston are a really good and legit team or is it just smoke an mirrors? As time goes on it seems to me like they are the real deal. Adding Fox would completely screw with what they're building OR would turn Fox into an average component on their roster. The intrigue with Fox are his stats which would probably drop considerably if the Rockets want to continue with their team cohesion.

On the Spurs, who are going nowhere quickly and already have highly overrated "young players", Fox would be the ultimate get-rich-quick piece.

I keep hearing that Castle must be part of the deal. I think once again we overvalue what we got. The only player we have that can actually do something is Devin. I think the deal with Sacto can be done with Devin + 2 firsts + some complimentary pieces. That or Fox walks. Kinda like us with special-ed Leonard getting hosed by Toronto. Only our front office would overthink this unfortunately.

[RC_Drunkford]

How many one time all stars around his age that are good but not amazing and due large deals or just got large deals? A lot tbh…Trae, Lauri, Jaylen Brown, Barnes, Lavine, Beal etc..

LaVine is about to turn 30, is injury prone and on a 43 to 48 million $ contract which expires once he's 32
Beal is 31 and on the worst contract in the league averaging 17 PPG
Jaylen Brown is an SF and on the Celtics, they are not trading him
Scottie Barnes is an forward and locked into a deal until 2029
Lauri is a PF who just signed an extension after not getting traded. Also locked into a deal til 2029

so your only other Fox of all the Foxes in the NBA is Ice Tre who can give you some spacing at the 1 and get the defense to collapse. I thought there were so many?

[LeBowen]

You realize theres already reports about Luka right? What reports? Show me one reliable source saying Luka is unhappy. Just one.
How you can act like this never happens after seeing Kawhi, after seeing Mitchell, after seeing Harden and KD etc….its ludicrous And how old were nephew, Harden and KD when they asked out? With how many years left on their contract? Noone ever rejected a supermax in order to get traded. Mitchell got moved because Ainge realized Utah isn't going anywhere and blew the team up after that ridiculous offer he got from Gobert.

[LeBowen]

so your only other Fox of all the Foxes in the NBA is Ice Tre who can give you some spacing at the 1 and get the defense to collapse. I thought there were so many?

Another one in the long line of delusional Spurs fans talking about 6% golden tickets and MVP level players being available.

[baseline bum]

Yes. Just like being a one time all star. Accolades happen. These are all very good players we are talking about so its not surprising they can have a great season or PO series etc…

I can understand not wanting Fox because you like Castle or don't want to move draft picks but not wanting him because he'd cost a 30% max salary is nuts, that's what anyone who can make an allstar team commands. And it's especially nuts when it's effectively a decreasing contract since Bird raises are 8.5% non-compounded while the salary cap gets a 10% bump, compounded, every year of his extension. So while it would be 30% the first year it's 27.5% of the cap in year 5. The big cap bump every year from the TV and streaming deal eliminates the previous worries about max contracts with max raises blowing up when the cap wasn't having these big jumps. I don't understand being afraid of paying a consistent producer like Fox that kind of percentage but being ok paying Vassell's inconsistent ass nearly 21% of the cap.

[DPG21920]

LaVine is about to turn 30, is injury prone and on a 43 to 48 million $ contract which expires once he's 32
Beal is 31 and on the worst contract in the league averaging 17 PPG
Jaylen Brown is an SF and on the Celtics, they are not trading him
Scottie Barnes is an forward and locked into a deal until 2029
Lauri is a PF who just signed an extension after not getting traded. Also locked into a deal til 2029

so your only other Fox of all the Foxes in the NBA is Ice Tre who can give you some spacing at the 1 and get the defense to collapse. I thought there were so many?

I just named so many lol. You saying “they wont be traded” when we have history that shows us otherwise doesnt make it fact sir.

[DPG21920]

What reports? Show me one reliable source saying Luka is unhappy. Just one. And how old were nephew, Harden and KD when they asked out? With how many years left on their contract? Noone ever rejected a supermax in order to get traded. Mitchell got moved because Ainge realized Utah isn't going anywhere and blew the team up after that ridiculous offer he got from Gobert.

Amazing how theres is all these caveats….except for any player Ive mentioned moving forward. Amazing.

[DPG21920]

I can understand not wanting Fox because you like Castle or don't want to move draft picks but not wanting him because he'd cost a 30% max salary is nuts, that's what anyone who can make an allstar team commands. And it's especially nuts when it's effectively a decreasing contract since Bird raises are 8.5% non-compounded while the salary cap gets a 10% bump, compounded, every year of his extension. So while it would be 30% the first year it's 27.5% of the cap in year 5. The big cap bump every year from the TV and streaming deal eliminates the previous worries about max contracts with max raises blowing up when the cap wasn't having these big jumps. I don't understand being afraid of paying a consistent producer like Fox that kind of percentage but being ok paying Vassell's inconsistent ass nearly 21% of the cap.

I would be 100% thrilled with signing him to a full max in FA. Never said otherwise.

[DPG21920]

Houston are a really good and legit team or is it just smoke an mirrors? As time goes on it seems to me like they are the real deal. Adding Fox would completely screw with what they're building OR would turn Fox into an average component on their roster. The intrigue with Fox are his stats which would probably drop considerably if the Rockets want to continue with their team cohesion.

On the Spurs, who are going nowhere quickly and already have highly overrated "young players", Fox would be the ultimate get-rich-quick piece.

I keep hearing that Castle must be part of the deal. I think once again we overvalue what we got. The only player we have that can actually do something is Devin. I think the deal with Sacto can be done with Devin + 2 firsts + some complimentary pieces. That or Fox walks. Kinda like us with special-ed Leonard getting hosed by Toronto. Only our front office would overthink this unfortunately.

And I think SA should be all over the deal if that’s the cost. But if it’s Vassell + Castle + 4 firsts etc…? Nah.

[DPG21920]

Another one in the long line of delusional Spurs fans talking about 6% golden tickets and MVP level players being available.

Our delusion landed us Wemby. You’re welcome.

[baseline bum]

Whatever it takes. If that’s the case, Castle + every pick is on the table. Fox is not that guy or anywhere close to it is the point. The opportunity cost is not the same. If SA passes on Fox, they will be just fine is the point.

They are not just fine right now. Keldon Johnson lost all of his trade value and Vassell is on that path now too where he goes from interesting prospect to underachieving veteran. The second best player on the team is 39.

[LeBowen]

Amazing how theres is all these caveats….except for any player Ive mentioned moving forward. Amazing.

Asking for one reliable report about the best guard in the league who just made the finals being available is a caveat?
You're just delusional, no point in engaging with you.

Like talking to a wall.

[DPG21920]

They are not just fine right now. Keldon Johnson lost all of his trade value and Vassell is on that path now too where he goes from interesting prospect to underachieving veteran. The second best player on the team is 39.

It’s not about players - Still have Castle, Sochan and tons of picks to make moves.

[spurraider21]

And I think SA should be all over the deal if that’s the cost. But if it’s Vassell + Castle + 4 firsts etc…? Nah.
im not sure anybody here has advocated for castle + vassell + 4 firsts for fox

[rjv]

fuck no on trading castle.

[Mal]

or Ant who's extension just kicked in and runs through 2029.
Ant will be in the same situation as Fox in 2027 or 2028, it's too early to think about him now.
.

I would not bank Ant draggin Rudy Gobbert`s 40 mil a year corps for that long.

[baseline bum]

Our delusion landed us Wemby. You’re welcome.

OK but if you win the powerball are you going to go invest your winnings all in more powerball tickets?

[DPG21920]

Asking for one reliable report about the best guard in the league who just made the finals being available is a caveat?
You're just delusional, no point in engaging with you.

Like talking to a wall.

Take Luka out of it for arguments sake. You still added caveat to every other player lmao

[Dverde]

Rumors are Kings FO told Fox’s agent that they completed a trade for Cam Johnson for a playoff push, but then said it fell through later on. I guess this act of incompetence was the final straw.

[LeBowen]

Our delusion landed us Wemby. You’re welcome.

Fucking retard if we got lucky with 14% odds once it doesn't mean that we should keep trying our luck.
We have a GOAT candidate on our roster and we better make good use of every single year he's healthy instead of hoping for even more lottery luck.

That's what incompetent GMs do, hope to get lucky even after they get their centerpiece.

[DPG21920]

OK but if you win the powerball are you going to go invest your winnings all in more powerball tickets?

Yes. When the risk is very low and reward very high.

[DPG21920]

Fucking retard if we got lucky with 14% odds once it doesn't mean that we should keep trying our luck.
We have a GOAT candidate on our roster and we better make good use of every single year he's healthy instead of hoping for even more lottery luck.

That's what incompetent GMs do, hope to get lucky even after they get their centerpiece.

It’s not just about draft. If you don’t trade for Fox, you can use those picks for other players to trade for. You dont lose any opportunities

[RC_Drunkford]

I just named so many lol. You saying “they wont be traded” when we have history that shows us otherwise doesnt make it fact sir.

ok then add Jokic, Giannis, SGA, Chet, Tatum and all the other guys to that list and wait til 20131 so you can trade for them :lol

You said there are so many Foxes. I'm talking about PGs specifically. There aren't many under 30 that are elite and you know that. If you want to wait so you can trade for SGA once he's 35 and won 5 rings with OKC while we're still in the play-in good luck.

You also don't seem to factor in cap space at all when it comes to this.

[LeBowen]

Take Luka out of it for arguments sake. You still added caveat to every other player lmao

You put him in the arguments.

I added valid points to other players.
Harden and nephew were on expiring contracts, KD walked as a free agent.

Fox is in exactly the same situation as them.

Mitchell is the only outlier, but his team blew it up, which doesn't seem to be the case with ANY of the names you listed.

[DPG21920]

And you dont need the number one pick to land a star. You can land them in lottery as many such cases have shown.

[spurraider21]

Yes.
https://i.imgflip.com/5y8nni.jpg?a482760

[LeBowen]

It’s not just about draft. If you don’t trade for Fox, you can use those picks for other players to trade for. You dont lose any opportunities

WHICH OTHER PLAYERS YOU CAN'T NAME A SINGLE REALISTIC TARGET?

[RC_Drunkford]

And you dont need the number one pick to land a star. You can land them in lottery as many such cases have shown.

You can also draft Josh Primo at #11, which we actually did. If you do in fact draft a star that player will be a star by 2030 or later. You seem to be cool with another 5 years of mediocrity, thinking Wemby will just stay here like David Robinson.

[koriwhat]

True, but it doesn't sound like he wants to sign an extension at all though



I agree but at the same time, i wouldn't keep Castle off the table. Love the kid but in all likelihood he will never be as good as Fox is. if Spurs can get Victor his #2, they should go for it before their chest of assets devalues

I have to bow out and say I totally agree. The Wemby era is now and taking Castle off the block for a gem like Fox would be downright ludicrous.

[spurraider21]

do it, mitch!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A5gw2f-CQAA8z4p.jpg

[Seventyniner]

iirc Danny Green said that Fox wants to not carry as heavy a load and would rather be the clear #2 than the #1a he is in Sacto, and that the Spurs are the pioneers in load management.

[KobesAchilles]

Every single non warriors KD team has imploded but that is the guy you want the spurs to go after :lol
I mean he’s on a short term contract. Even his extension would be 2 years only. He can shoot the ball, score any way possible, he isn’t a sieve on defense and would be the best #2 guy in the league.

BTW you answered the million dollar question. KD isn’t a leader and every team that has him as the leader failed. The team that didn’t ask him to lead won. We have Wemby. KD wouldn’t be our leader or our go to guy on offense. In fact, hanging out in the gym with KD every single day would only enhance Wemby since that’s who he is trying to emulate anyways. Might as well learn it from KD himself then watch film of KD

[Mal]

iirc Danny Green said that Fox wants to not carry as heavy a load and would rather be the clear #2 than the #1a he is in Sacto, and that the Spurs are the pioneers in load management.

He did not sign this fat contract yet, but its already in load management to secure next big fat deal :lol

[LeBowen]

https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article299376334.html



The team has been linked in rumors to Nets forward Cam Johnson and Jazz forward John Collins, but as of Wednesday there had been no substantial improvements made to the roster while the team entered the day as the No. 10 seed in the NBA Western Conference at 24-22. “I think anything’s possible in this league. Like I said, crazier things have happened,” he said. Fox participated in Wednesday’s shootaround as normal and appears in line to start against the 76ers following up his 30-point performance on Sunday in a win over the Brooklyn Nets. He also confirmed he has a preferred destination, should he get traded, and pointed to what’s been reported about the San Antonio Spurs being his preferred landing spot. “For sure, I think everybody has a preferred destination,” Fox said. “I think everybody has a preferred destination if they’re not in the place that — or if they’re not going to be in the place where they are in the moment. I think it’s natural.” Fox was asked if he was bothered by the fact the Kings’ decision makers — namely owner Vivek Ranadivé, general manager Monte McNair and assistant GM Wes Wilcox — didn’t speak publicly following the sudden firing of Mike Brown Dec. 27. It led to speculation that Fox pushed for Brown’s removal while no one from the Kings publicly said otherwise. “I really won’t go into detail on any of that stuff,”

[DPG21920]

WHICH OTHER PLAYERS YOU CAN'T NAME A SINGLE REALISTIC TARGET?

I just did. You simply dont agree.

[rjv]

i heard Windhorst today speaking about the potential Fox trade on the "Hoop Collective" podcast and at the 21:24 mark he mildly hints that some players could become available this summer but he backed off and said that he didn't want to get into that discussion. there will always be some surprising developments so just because names aren't available doesn't mean it couldn't happen. that's all part of the risk/reward scenario. if the spurs hold off for something better, they might miss out. if they act too hastily, they might miss out. and, of course, there's always the chance that some crazy lottery scenario comes to fruition.

[DPG21920]

You can also draft Josh Primo at #11, which we actually did. If you do in fact draft a star that player will be a star by 2030 or later. You seem to be cool with another 5 years of mediocrity, thinking Wemby will just stay here like David Robinson.

This is a strawman. Nothing about not trading for Fox means Im arguing sa hold all their picks and make no other moves for 5 years. Thats redacted and before Fox became available this was never the argument lol

[DPG21920]

I have to bow out and say I totally agree. The Wemby era is now and taking Castle off the block for a gem like Fox would be downright ludicrous.

Im not taking him off the block, as Ive stated. Im saying I would be pissed if it’s Castle and that if it is Castle Im certainly not also giving 4+ firsts etc..

[DPG21920]

i heard Windhorst today speaking about the potential Fox trade on the "Hoop Collective" podcast and at the 21:24 mark he mildly hints that some players could become available this summer but he backed off and said that he didn't want to get into that discussion. there will always be some surprising developments so just because names aren't available doesn't mean it couldn't happen. that's all part of the risk/reward scenario. if the spurs hold off for something better, they might miss out. if they act too hastily, they might miss out. and, of course, there's always the chance that some crazy lottery scenario comes to fruition.

No - Windhorst is just a Spurs homer GM that’s fine with being mediocre for 5 years!! It’s impossible that any other one time all stars become available you must act now and do WHATEVER it takes!! Windhorst couldn’t name even one player that’s actually available :lol So pathetic JUST NAME ONE WINDHORST - ONE!!!!

[Seventyniner]

i heard Windhorst today speaking about the potential Fox trade on the "Hoop Collective" podcast and at the 21:24 mark he mildly hints that some players could become available this summer but he backed off and said that he didn't want to get into that discussion. there will always be some surprising developments so just because names aren't available doesn't mean it couldn't happen. that's all part of the risk/reward scenario. if the spurs hold off for something better, they might miss out. if they act too hastily, they might miss out. and, of course, there's always the chance that some crazy lottery scenario comes to fruition.

The Spurs have enough of a war chest in terms of picks and tradable salaries that they could get Fox this week and put together a very competitive offer for another star this summer. The Spurs can trade a total of 8 firsts between the two trades and still comply with the Stepien Rule.

I'm not saying they should, but they can. The boatload of seconds can also help keep the bottom of the roster stocked with cheap deals if it comes to that.

[LeBowen]

I just did. You simply dont agree.

No, you fucking didn't.
Naming Luka and Ant isn't realistic, it's wishful thinking by someone who doesn't follow the league.
Realistic targets need to be backed up by arguments and you have none. I replied to every single one of your posts, then you go back to strawmans.

Fox is available.
Lauri was and Spurs didn't offer enough, it's uncertain if he's going to be available next summer.
Trae is obviously a player PATFO has no interest in because it would've been done a long time ago considering the picks situation.

That's it if we're talking about all-stars or players close to that level under 30.

[DPG21920]

No, you fucking didn't.
Naming Luka and Ant isn't realistic, it's wishful thinking by someone who doesn't follow the league.
Realistic targets need to be backed up by arguments and you have none. I replied to every single one of your posts, then you go back to strawmans.

Fox is available.
Lauri was and Spurs didn't offer enough, it's uncertain if he's going to be available next summer.
Trae is obviously a player PATFO has no interest in because it would've been done a long time ago considering the picks situation.

That's it if we're talking about all-stars or players close to that level under 30.

I guess Windhorst and countless examples of other players isn’t enough. Only LeBowen “follows the league’ and is the arbiter of what’s “realistic”

[LeBowen]

I guess Windhorst and countless examples of other players isn’t enough. Only LeBowen “follows the league’ and is the arbiter of what’s “realistic”

Yeah, because fucking EPSN is there for insightful analysis and not generating clicks based on vague statements.

Clueless fuck.

[scott]

These rumors have brought out the best of SpursTalk. This is the kind of debate I miss. WE ARE BACK BABY.

I wanted to share my thought (which are worth exactly nothing) on some things I've seen people say here and on the Spurs subreddit

1. Fox isn't even that good! He's barely even better than Vassell!

De'Aaron Fox has been a top-tier player essentially since the second season of his career (86th percentile in LEBRON and 92nd percentile in LEBRON WAR that year), and has been a 90+ percentile player for the last 3 seasons. Last season, he was 97th percentile in LEBRON and 98th percentile in LEBRON WAR. There are 450 NBA players at any given time, so that means using LEBRON as a proxy, Fox was definitionally a Top 15 player last season. The season before he was 94/95th percentile, meaning he was a Top 30 player. This year he is 90th/86th. Meaning he was a Top 45 player. Yes there is fluctuation year-to-year, this is true of any player, but Fox is consistently a Top 50 player overall.

He's also consistently a 90+ percentile offensive player using O-LEBRON as a proxy, Since his sophomore season, he has been 90th, 93rd, 95th, 89th, 97th, 97th, 94th percentile in O-LEBRON. Long story short, he's an elite offensive player (and consistently so) and a top 25-30 player in the NBA (which corresponds to the Ringer's ranking of him as the 19th best player in the NBA).

Compare that to Devin, who has been a below median percentile player every year of his career other than his sophomore season. 38, 69, 40, 37, 43. Devin is epitome of mid. Mid players are important too, and they may even be worth $27MM/yr. But they don't belong in the same breath as top players.

2. We can just wait until he is a free agent and sign him for free.

This is certainly subject to debate, but I think the odds are very low that Fox isn't traded somewhere and extended by the start of next season. Yes, his team is saying they'll only extend with San Antonio now, but they are trying to get to their preferred destination. At the end of the day, Fox isn't going to make All NBA this year so a SuperMax is out of the question. But a Max Extension with Bird Raises is 5/296 compared to a FA Max deal of 4/219. I seriously doubt Fox is going to hit free agency and leave $77 million on the table. This summer, if the Spurs don't pull the trigger, he'll become open to the idea of an extension with another team.

3. We should just wait for [Insert Player Here], he's better!

Some of these are not serious suggestions. Luka is also not going to be a Free Agent in the summer of 2026. He is not turning down a 5/35% supermax so that he can become a free agent and sign a 4/30% FA max. It's simply laughable to even believe this for a minute. Luka will sign a SuperMax this summer. He will be eligible to be traded 6 months after that. Could he demand a trade? Sure? Is there any reason to believe he will? Not serious ones. The same goes with Ant. You'll be waiting until 2029 to see if he demands a trade, because he won't do it before he secures a SuperMax. To my knowledge, Kawhi is the only player who has foregone a shoe-in SuperMax to force his way out.

But if by some 0.0001% chance happened and Luka was available next season or became a Free Agent... I could just see the posts now... "IDK about Luka, I really like Vassell I'm not sure he's worth giving up... and did you know that Shai is a Free Agent in 2027?" It's a never ending cycle. PATFO's Patience Grift has created an army of cultists who are always waiting to gamble on the next improbable scenario

4. But the mystery box could be a boat!

This one, I think actually has some merit. You don't want to be the team that traded away the pick that became Cooper Flagg or AJ Dyabantsa. But this is a solvable problem. Put Top-1 protection on the pick you send to SAC. I think anything beyond Top-1 is going a little too far, but Top-1 is reasonable. It will come with a cost however, you'll have maybe throw in a little sweetener to get that protection, but it's doable.

I look forward to this debate raging on!

[DPG21920]

Yeah, because fucking EPSN is there for insightful analysis and not generating clicks based on vague statements.

Clueless fuck.

You seem angry. Are you emotionally ok? Like outside of basketball? My DM’s are open if you need IRL help or someone to vent to. Basketball aside, I hope you are doing ok and Im here for you

[LeBowen]

You seem angry. Are you emotionally ok? Like outside of basketball? My DM’s are open if you need IRL help or someone to vent to. Basketball aside, I hope you are doing ok and Im here for you

As I said, retards like yourself who just trigger and strawman people are the cancer of every single forum.
You've provided absolutely no relevant arguments other than trying to present your delusions as something realistic.
You can't name A SINGLE ALL-STAR UNDER 30 who could ask out this or the next summer other than mentioned Fox, Lauri and Trae.

You're fucking cancer and would've been warned on any reasonably moderated board.
I would've been banned for insulting you, but I'd gladly take that over having you spew your nonsense over and over.

[Seventyniner]

3. We should just wait for [Insert Player Here], he's better!

Some of these are not serious suggestions. Luka is also not going to be a Free Agent in the summer of 2026. He is not turning down a 5/35% supermax so that he can become a free agent and sign a 4/30% FA max. It's simply laughable to even believe this for a minute. Luka will sign a SuperMax this summer. He will be eligible to be traded 6 months after that. Could he demand a trade? Sure? Is there any reason to believe he will? Not serious ones. The same goes with Ant. You'll be waiting until 2029 to see if he demands a trade, because he won't do it before he secures a SuperMax. To my knowledge, Kawhi is the only player who has foregone a shoe-in SuperMax to force his way out.

But if by some 0.0001% chance happened and Luka was available next season or became a Free Agent... I could just see the posts now... "IDK about Luka, I really like Vassell I'm not sure he's worth giving up... and did you know that Shai is a Free Agent in 2027?" It's a never ending cycle. PATFO's Patience Grift has created an army of cultists who are always waiting to gamble on the next improbable scenario

There's also the chance the Spurs can thread the needle by trading for Fox, extending him, and then making Fox the centerpiece of a Doncic deal if Doncic really does try to skip town ASAP after signing his supermax.

Snowball's chance in hell but fun to think about.

[rjv]

The Spurs have enough of a war chest in terms of picks and tradable salaries that they could get Fox this week and put together a very competitive offer for another star this summer. The Spurs can trade a total of 8 firsts between the two trades and still comply with the Stepien Rule.

I'm not saying they should, but they can. The boatload of seconds can also help keep the bottom of the roster stocked with cheap deals if it comes to that.

definitely possible. and they would have more leverage, especially in the case of someone like a myles turner who would be a FA anyway. i'm actually more concerned about this year's #1 picks. SAC would want them and with jalen johnson out, ATL could drop to around 7th or 8th. our own pick could hover around 9th or 10th.

[spurraider21]

i heard Windhorst today speaking about the potential Fox trade on the "Hoop Collective" podcast and at the 21:24 mark he mildly hints that some players could become available this summer but he backed off and said that he didn't want to get into that discussion. there will always be some surprising developments so just because names aren't available doesn't mean it couldn't happen. that's all part of the risk/reward scenario. if the spurs hold off for something better, they might miss out. if they act too hastily, they might miss out. and, of course, there's always the chance that some crazy lottery scenario comes to fruition.
theres a saying somewhere about hands bushes and birds