De'Aaron Fox Rumors Suggest a Possible Trade to The Spurs

[Mugen]

Spurstalk imploding and the downfall of America, I was there for it tbh.

https://media1.giphy.com/media/6pJNYBYSMFod2/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b9526l6h3ii1hlg0grjgn80175rh0as9 d2z3b26fg5j3&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[ginobilized]

If we get Fox and keep Vassell, Devin becomes that Middleton-lite 3rd option that best suits him.
It will be fascinating and illuminating to see how this plays out.

[rjv]

These rumors have brought out the best of SpursTalk. This is the kind of debate I miss. WE ARE BACK BABY.

I wanted to share my thought (which are worth exactly nothing) on some things I've seen people say here and on the Spurs subreddit

1. Fox isn't even that good! He's barely even better than Vassell!

De'Aaron Fox has been a top-tier player essentially since the second season of his career (86th percentile in LEBRON and 92nd percentile in LEBRON WAR that year), and has been a 90+ percentile player for the last 3 seasons. Last season, he was 97th percentile in LEBRON and 98th percentile in LEBRON WAR. There are 450 NBA players at any given time, so that means using LEBRON as a proxy, Fox was definitionally a Top 15 player last season. The season before he was 94/95th percentile, meaning he was a Top 30 player. This year he is 90th/86th. Meaning he was a Top 45 player. Yes there is fluctuation year-to-year, this is true of any player, but Fox is consistently a Top 50 player overall.

He's also consistently a 90+ percentile offensive player using O-LEBRON as a proxy, Since his sophomore season, he has been 90th, 93rd, 95th, 89th, 97th, 97th, 94th percentile in O-LEBRON. Long story short, he's an elite offensive player (and consistently so) and a top 25-30 player in the NBA (which corresponds to the Ringer's ranking of him as the 19th best player in the NBA).

Compare that to Devin, who has been a below median percentile player every year of his career other than his sophomore season. 38, 69, 40, 37, 43. Devin is epitome of mid. Mid players are important too, and they may even be worth $27MM/yr. But they don't belong in the same breath as top players.

2. We can just wait until he is a free agent and sign him for free.

This is certainly subject to debate, but I think the odds are very low that Fox isn't traded somewhere and extended by the start of next season. Yes, his team is saying they'll only extend with San Antonio now, but they are trying to get to their preferred destination. At the end of the day, Fox isn't going to make All NBA this year so a SuperMax is out of the question. But a Max Extension with Bird Raises is 5/296 compared to a FA Max deal of 4/219. I seriously doubt Fox is going to hit free agency and leave $77 million on the table. This summer, if the Spurs don't pull the trigger, he'll become open to the idea of an extension with another team.

3. We should just wait for [Insert Player Here], he's better!

Some of these are not serious suggestions. Luka is also not going to be a Free Agent in the summer of 2026. He is not turning down a 5/35% supermax so that he can become a free agent and sign a 4/30% FA max. It's simply laughable to even believe this for a minute. Luka will sign a SuperMax this summer. He will be eligible to be traded 6 months after that. Could he demand a trade? Sure? Is there any reason to believe he will? Not serious ones. The same goes with Ant. You'll be waiting until 2029 to see if he demands a trade, because he won't do it before he secures a SuperMax. To my knowledge, Kawhi is the only player who has foregone a shoe-in SuperMax to force his way out.

But if by some 0.0001% chance happened and Luka was available next season or became a Free Agent... I could just see the posts now... "IDK about Luka, I really like Vassell I'm not sure he's worth giving up... and did you know that Shai is a Free Agent in 2027?" It's a never ending cycle. PATFO's Patience Grift has created an army of cultists who are always waiting to gamble on the next improbable scenario

4. But the mystery box could be a boat!

This one, I think actually has some merit. You don't want to be the team that traded away the pick that became Cooper Flagg or AJ Dyabantsa. But this is a solvable problem. Put Top-1 protection on the pick you send to SAC. I think anything beyond Top-1 is going a little too far, but Top-1 is reasonable. It will come with a cost however, you'll have maybe throw in a little sweetener to get that protection, but it's doable.

I look forward to this debate raging on!

if they could top #2 protect this year's picks and top #1 next year's, that would be amazing but i'm skeptical that SAC would yield to that.

also, you didn't mention the "not if it costs us Castle" position.

[DPG21920]

These rumors have brought out the best of SpursTalk. This is the kind of debate I miss. WE ARE BACK BABY.

I wanted to share my thought (which are worth exactly nothing) on some things I've seen people say here and on the Spurs subreddit

1. Fox isn't even that good! He's barely even better than Vassell!

De'Aaron Fox has been a top-tier player essentially since the second season of his career (86th percentile in LEBRON and 92nd percentile in LEBRON WAR that year), and has been a 90+ percentile player for the last 3 seasons. Last season, he was 97th percentile in LEBRON and 98th percentile in LEBRON WAR. There are 450 NBA players at any given time, so that means using LEBRON as a proxy, Fox was definitionally a Top 15 player last season. The season before he was 94/95th percentile, meaning he was a Top 30 player. This year he is 90th/86th. Meaning he was a Top 45 player. Yes there is fluctuation year-to-year, this is true of any player, but Fox is consistently a Top 50 player overall.

He's also consistently a 90+ percentile offensive player using O-LEBRON as a proxy, Since his sophomore season, he has been 90th, 93rd, 95th, 89th, 97th, 97th, 94th percentile in O-LEBRON. Long story short, he's an elite offensive player (and consistently so) and a top 25-30 player in the NBA (which corresponds to the Ringer's ranking of him as the 19th best player in the NBA).

Compare that to Devin, who has been a below median percentile player every year of his career other than his sophomore season. 38, 69, 40, 37, 43. Devin is epitome of mid. Mid players are important too, and they may even be worth $27MM/yr. But they don't belong in the same breath as top players.

2. We can just wait until he is a free agent and sign him for free.

This is certainly subject to debate, but I think the odds are very low that Fox isn't traded somewhere and extended by the start of next season. Yes, his team is saying they'll only extend with San Antonio now, but they are trying to get to their preferred destination. At the end of the day, Fox isn't going to make All NBA this year so a SuperMax is out of the question. But a Max Extension with Bird Raises is 5/296 compared to a FA Max deal of 4/219. I seriously doubt Fox is going to hit free agency and leave $77 million on the table. This summer, if the Spurs don't pull the trigger, he'll become open to the idea of an extension with another team.

3. We should just wait for [Insert Player Here], he's better!

Some of these are not serious suggestions. Luka is also not going to be a Free Agent in the summer of 2026. He is not turning down a 5/35% supermax so that he can become a free agent and sign a 4/30% FA max. It's simply laughable to even believe this for a minute. Luka will sign a SuperMax this summer. He will be eligible to be traded 6 months after that. Could he demand a trade? Sure? Is there any reason to believe he will? Not serious ones. The same goes with Ant. You'll be waiting until 2029 to see if he demands a trade, because he won't do it before he secures a SuperMax. To my knowledge, Kawhi is the only player who has foregone a shoe-in SuperMax to force his way out.

But if by some 0.0001% chance happened and Luka was available next season or became a Free Agent... I could just see the posts now... "IDK about Luka, I really like Vassell I'm not sure he's worth giving up... and did you know that Shai is a Free Agent in 2027?" It's a never ending cycle. PATFO's Patience Grift has created an army of cultists who are always waiting to gamble on the next improbable scenario

4. But the mystery box could be a boat!

This one, I think actually has some merit. You don't want to be the team that traded away the pick that became Cooper Flagg or AJ Dyabantsa. But this is a solvable problem. Put Top-1 protection on the pick you send to SAC. I think anything beyond Top-1 is going a little too far, but Top-1 is reasonable. It will come with a cost however, you'll have maybe throw in a little sweetener to get that protection, but it's doable.

I look forward to this debate raging on!

All valid. And I don’t think anyone serious would say apples-to-apples Fox is not better than Vassell. Clearly he is. It’s a matter of both costs, opportunity costs (Flagg and potential other stars asking out like Ant Man etc..) alongside is Fox even a great “fit” next to Wemby etc…But in terms of just raw max deal for Fox or comparing him to anyone else on SA? Fox would be our second best player by a wide margin as things stand and the money alone is not an issue.


I do think the FA thing is a risk, but it’s also not nothing. At least not in terms of negotiating. Spurs cannot afford to be fleeced here given we know Fox alone (especially minus Dev + picks) isn’t enough to make SA a legit contender at all. I do think theres a reasonable chance Fox makes it to free agency, but no doubt it’s a gamble. But the good news is if you make that gamble and are wrong it’s not like you’re broke. You’d still have the picks which you can draft a star with possibly or trade for another player etc…there will come a time to accelerate and overpay if you have to etc…Im not sure that time is now.

[DPG21920]

As I said, retards like yourself who just trigger and strawman people are the cancer of every single forum.
You've provided absolutely no relevant arguments other than trying to present your delusions as something realistic.
You can't name A SINGLE ALL-STAR UNDER 30 who could ask out this or the next summer other than mentioned Fox, Lauri and Trae.

You're fucking cancer and would've been warned on any reasonably moderated board.
I would've been banned for insulting you, but I'd gladly take that over having you spew your nonsense over and over.


Are you ok? You seem angry.

[DPG21920]

The Spurs have enough of a war chest in terms of picks and tradable salaries that they could get Fox this week and put together a very competitive offer for another star this summer. The Spurs can trade a total of 8 firsts between the two trades and still comply with the Stepien Rule.

I'm not saying they should, but they can. The boatload of seconds can also help keep the bottom of the roster stocked with cheap deals if it comes to that.

Correct. Depending on how SA does things, they can either make another trade or have significant cap space still before Wemby extension kicks in. But that’s why this trade matters and the cost. Spurs cannot afford to get lazy and fleeced here. Too much risk, opportunity costs and work to be done even if you land Fox to make SA a contender

[scott]

The Spurs have enough of a war chest in terms of picks and tradable salaries that they could get Fox this week and put together a very competitive offer for another star this summer. The Spurs can trade a total of 8 firsts between the two trades and still comply with the Stepien Rule.

I'm not saying they should, but they can. The boatload of seconds can also help keep the bottom of the roster stocked with cheap deals if it comes to that.

Thanks for pointing this out again. "Spurs shouldn't blow their war chest" is another dumb argument I hear. It's practically impossible for the Spurs to do so in any one move.

[LeBowen]

Are you ok? You seem angry.

That's the only thing you can reply with since you've got zero actual basketball arguments other than delusions that couldn't be any further away from the truth.


Thanks for pointing this out again. "Spurs shouldn't blow their war chest" is another dumb argument I hear. It's practically impossible for the Spurs to do so in any one move.

Didn't you hear?
Windy said that many targets could become available soon!
Luka is about to ask out, the only question is if we have enough to get both him and Ant.

[spurraider21]

There's also the chance the Spurs can thread the needle by trading for Fox, extending him, and then making Fox the centerpiece of a Doncic deal if Doncic really does try to skip town ASAP after signing his supermax.

Snowball's chance in hell but fun to think about.
this is an underrated part of the discussion. not luka specifically. but that trading for Fox doesnt kill flexibility like some make it out to be. lets not blow our wad here, lets wait for something better.

even if Fox doesnt work out great, look at what ATL did with Murray. they gave up too much for him, he signed an extension with them, and it didnt work out. but they then flipped him for 2 picks and dyson daniels and recouped a good amount of the value. assuming we extend fox, we'd have a very good player under a long term contract during his prime.

[baseline bum]

It’s not just about draft. If you don’t trade for Fox, you can use those picks for other players to trade for. You dont lose any opportunities

If Ant comes available then you know you could still trade Fox right?

[DPG21920]

this is an underrated part of the discussion. not luka specifically. but that trading for Fox doesnt kill flexibility like some make it out to be. lets not blow our wad here, lets wait for something better.

even if Fox doesnt work out great, look at what ATL did with Murray. they gave up too much for him, he signed an extension with them, and it didnt work out. but they then flipped him for 2 picks and dyson daniels and recouped a good amount of the value. assuming we extend fox, we'd have a very good player under a long term contract during his prime.

Well then theres Lavine…you get Fox falling off a cliff and now on a 50M a year deal and it can really be an issue *potentially* as well. It’s not nothing IMO

[SpursBills]

Just out of curiosity, since I’m seeing a lot of ‘one time all-star’ comments regarding fox, would people feel differently if hypothetically the exact same package for fox could bring you ja morant without the gun issues?

[DPG21920]

If Ant comes available then you know you could still trade Fox right?

Maybe, but you’ve likely burned 3-4 of your best assets that could have been used more cleanly in that deal and make it much much tougher (look at Lavine etc..)

[DPG21920]

Just out of curiosity, since I’m seeing a lot of ‘one time all-star’ comments regarding fox, would people feel differently if hypothetically the exact same package for fox could bring you ja morant without the gun issues?

With Morant being 2 years younger I think that matters,yes.

[DPG21920]

That's the only thing you can reply with since you've got zero actual basketball arguments other than delusions that couldn't be any further away from the truth.



Didn't you hear?
Windy said that many targets could become available soon!
Luka is about to ask out, the only question is if we have enough to get both him and Ant.

No - Im being serious. Basketball shouldn’t make someone this mad. You can hate my ideas, but you seem to have a genuine issue and I want to be sure you’re good.

[Spurminator]

theres a saying somewhere about hands bushes and birds

I was close to making that saying my generic reply to every "What if we give up a future All Star" comment.

[DPG21920]

Im all for bird in hand. But it’s not at any costs. Seems straightforward to me with a player like Fox.

[scott]

if they could top #2 protect this year's picks and top #1 next year's, that would be amazing but i'm skeptical that SAC would yield to that.

also, you didn't mention the "not if it costs us Castle" position.

Good call out. I did mention that one a couple dozen pages ago. I love Castle, and I absolutely want to keep him. But if he's the cost of getting the deal done, then I think you do it. Could Castle turn into a better player than Fox? It's possible. It is likely? I don't think so.

With that said, I think Castle + Vassell + picks is too much. I think I would do Castle + Vassell with no picks, but if we are sending out picks, it only one of Devin or Castle (I try my hardest to make it Devin, and I think Devin fits SAC better anyway personally).

Doing Castle + Devin with no picks might be a hotter take, but it still leaves me with plenty of assets to build the team around my new StarFox Big 2. It also now makes Jeremy playable as a starter and provides some flexibility on what you can do. Keeping Castle means Jeremy becomes a bench guy and you need to out and get shooting wings (Barnes is a good fit and we have him already).

That's my personal opinion on Castle. But... I repeat, I try my damnedest to keep Steph.

[LeBowen]

No - Im being serious. Basketball shouldn’t make someone this mad. You can hate my ideas, but you seem to have a genuine issue and I want to be sure you’re good.

Basketball doesn't make me mad, retards who don't understand the basic principles of an argumented discussion do.

[SpursBills]

With Morant being 2 years younger I think that matters,yes.

Ok so if it were 27 year old ja morant, you would feel the same way?

[DPG21920]

Basketball doesn't make me mad, retards who don't understand the basic principles of an argumented discussion do.

Still - this was all basketball and you just seem so, so angry. If nothings wrong that’s great.

[DPG21920]

Ok so if it were 27 year old ja morant, you would feel the same way?

Not sure - would need to see his next two years and how it goes. But his teams are consistently doing better than Fox led teams.

[scott]

this is an underrated part of the discussion. not luka specifically. but that trading for Fox doesnt kill flexibility like some make it out to be. lets not blow our wad here, lets wait for something better.

even if Fox doesnt work out great, look at what ATL did with Murray. they gave up too much for him, he signed an extension with them, and it didnt work out. but they then flipped him for 2 picks and dyson daniels and recouped a good amount of the value. assuming we extend fox, we'd have a very good player under a long term contract during his prime.

Yeah, people made these same arguments during the Trae rumors. It's like they think these All NBA guys are going to come to San Antonio and suddenly become complete garbage.

Will you lose a little bit? Maybe, but the residual value on what you can recoup on these guys is strong. It's like buying a high-spec Ferrari, so long as you don't treat it like shit and run it to the ground, it's going to hold it's value and maybe even appreciate.

[DPG21920]

Good call out. I did mention that one a couple dozen pages ago. I love Castle, and I absolutely want to keep him. But if he's the cost of getting the deal done, then I think you do it. Could Castle turn into a better player than Fox? It's possible. It is likely? I don't think so.

With that said, I think Castle + Vassell + picks is too much. I think I would do Castle + Vassell with no picks, but if we are sending out picks, it only one of Devin or Castle (I try my hardest to make it Devin, and I think Devin fits SAC better anyway personally).

Doing Castle + Devin with no picks might be a hotter take, but it still leaves me with plenty of assets to build the team around my new StarFox Big 2. It also now makes Jeremy playable as a starter and provides some flexibility on what you can do. Keeping Castle means Jeremy becomes a bench guy and you need to out and get shooting wings (Barnes is a good fit and we have him already).

That's my personal opinion on Castle. But... I repeat, I try my damnedest to keep Steph.

Same. Everything Ive said is net cost based.

[spurraider21]

Well then theres Lavine…you get Fox falling off a cliff and now on a 50M a year deal and it can really be an issue *potentially* as well. It’s not nothing IMO
lavine was traded to the bulls, who then gave him a 4/80 contract, and he became an all-star during the last 2 years of that deal. that was a success. then they gave him the big 5/200 extension and injuries have taken a toll. i dont see that one as a failure. he's been there for 8 years now

[DPG21920]

lavine was traded to the bulls, who then gave him a 4/80 contract, and he became an all-star during the last 2 years of that deal. that was a success. then they gave him the big 5/200 extension and injuries have taken a toll. i dont see that one as a failure. he's been there for 8 years now

It’s a failure in that the big deal (like Fox will get) became prohibitive for CHI and could very well be same for SA (trade assets for Fox, sign him to a massive extension and then he sort of under delivers).

[baseline bum]

Maybe, but you’ve likely burned 3-4 of your best assets that could have been used more cleanly in that deal and make it much much tougher (look at Lavine etc..)

Why are you making the ridiculous assumption that Fox at max becomes a toxic deal?

[scott]

Well then theres Lavine…you get Fox falling off a cliff and now on a 50M a year deal and it can really be an issue *potentially* as well. It’s not nothing IMO

Why do you believe Fox would fall off a cliff? What reason is there to believe this would happen? Whatever risk of this happening that does exist, it exists with all other players, including Luka, Ant, etc.

If that's what you are afraid of, that's just scared money talking and scared money don't make money.

[DPG21920]

Why are you making the ridiculous assumption that Fox at max becomes a toxic deal?

Im not - Im saying I think theres some risk he does, especially when the cost of Fox goes beyond just his salary (because you gave up Castle + multiple picks)

[spurraider21]

It’s a failure in that the big deal (like Fox will get) became prohibitive for CHI and could very well be same for SA (trade assets for Fox, sign him to a massive extension and then he sort of under delivers).
chicago traded jimmy butler for lavine and the draft righs of markkanen.

lavine's injuries stalled his career. that could happen to anybody, but he had warning signs going back to minny. fox doesnt really have that. there are now reports of him having some hand ligament issue, but nothing that seems like it would be chronic or career altering

[DPG21920]

Why do you believe Fox would fall off a cliff? What reason is there to believe this would happen? Whatever risk of this happening that does exist, it exists with all other players, including Luka, Ant, etc.

If that's what you are afraid of, that's just scared money talking and scared money don't make money.

He’s 27, rumors of some injuries and his shot isnt consistent so any fall off in athleticism as he approaches 30 (end of his deal) seems like a valid concern.

[DPG21920]

chicago traded jimmy butler for lavine and the draft righs of markkanen.

Sure - but Im talking about what happens when you give fringe all starts 200M deals and they have not really proven they are “winners” in the sense of the word. Spurs would have greater risk because they would be paying Fox AND giving up assets to do so (unlike CHI with Lavine)

[LeBowen]

Still - this was all basketball and you just seem so, so angry. If nothings wrong that’s great.

Your follow-up post is exactly the reason why I think you're completely delusional.
Box score watcher or whatever.


Not sure - would need to see his next two years and how it goes. But his teams are consistently doing better than Fox led teams.

20-21 season, 5-4 without Morant.
21-22 season, 20-4 without Morant.
22-23 season, 11-10 without Morant.
24-25 season, 12-7 without Morant.

I excluded 23-24 season for obvious reasons, they had too many injuries.
Even if you include it, they're still close to .500 without Morant.

So much for him being better than Fox and not just having way better rosters around him.

[SpursBills]

Not sure - would need to see his next two years and how it goes. But his teams are consistently doing better than Fox led teams.

I can’t do it on my phone for some reason, but can someone post a graphic of darko historical dpm comparing fox, ja, and Trae young sorted by age? scott, if you have some time on your hands. My point here is that award designations like ‘all star’ don’t necessarily catch the magnitude of a players impact, and even team success is often a function of quality of roster construction.

[baseline bum]

JFC sbnation going in on Sac with no vaseline

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2025/1/29/24354005/deaaron-fox-trade-packages-nba-rumors-kings-rockets-spurs

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/RBZFmzIwADNec3JNnxi0oeLX-2k=/0x0:2178x942/1920x0/filters:focal(0x0:2178x942):format(webp):no_upscal e()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/25850928/Screenshot_2025_01_28_at_2.41.36_PM.png

[DPG21920]

Your follow-up post is exactly the reason why I think you're completely delusional.
Box score watcher or whatever.



20-21 season, 5-4 without Morant.
21-22 season, 20-4 without Morant.
22-23 season, 11-10 without Morant.
24-25 season, 12-7 without Morant.

I excluded 23-24 season for obvious reasons, they had too many injuries.
Even if you include it, they're still above .500 without Morant.

So much for him being better than Fox and not just having way better rosters around him.

Arguable. Sabonis all star. DeRozan all star. Good shooting etc….I didnt say I would treat Ja any differently either; I said the age gap makes it so and if hypothetically you asked me about Ja 2 years from now I said I’d need to see how he develops. How is that unreasonable?

[LeBowen]

Also, noone mentions defense.
Fox isn't an all-NBA defender, but he's got great lateral movements, doesn't get lost and is one of the best passing lane interceptors due to his wingspan and quickness.

The likes of Trae, Lavine or Morant are just horrible defensively. There's a bigger gap between them and Fox than between Fox and elite defenders like Jrue or Derrick.
Not to mention how difficult it is to play defense with Sabonis and Trey Lyles as your bigs.

[DPG21920]

I can’t do it on my phone for some reason, but can someone post a graphic of darko historical dpm comparing fox, ja, and Trae young sorted by age? scott, if you have some time on your hands. My point here is that award designations like ‘all star’ don’t necessarily catch the magnitude of a players impact, and even team success is often a function of quality of roster construction.

Im not saying it does. You can be a winner (Derrick White) and never be an all star. Im just talking about the types of guys that come available, how those accolades shape both price and narrative etc..

[DPG21920]

JFC sbnation going in on Sac with no vaseline

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2025/1/29/24354005/deaaron-fox-trade-packages-nba-rumors-kings-rockets-spurs

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/RBZFmzIwADNec3JNnxi0oeLX-2k=/0x0:2178x942/1920x0/filters:focal(0x0:2178x942):format(webp):no_upscal e()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/25850928/Screenshot_2025_01_28_at_2.41.36_PM.png

Easy yes if that’s the cost IMO and it’s what I suggested originally. Dont think Kings will be happy or take it but based on leverage and Fox pressing hard like Kawhi may end up best they get.

[scott]

He’s 27, rumors of some injuries and his shot isnt consistent so any fall off in athleticism as he approaches 30 (end of his deal) seems like a valid concern.

Age and the possibility of injury affecting a player are potential concerns of any player. It's not like Fox is injury prone (certainly has far less of an injury history and certainly takes better care of his body than Luka).

If you're afraid of injuries and age, then it's going to hold you up from ever getting anyone other than draft picks and young FAs. That's one way to build, but buckle up because it might be a long ride.

[baseline bum]

Easy yes if that’s the cost IMO and it’s what I suggested originally. Dont think Kings will be happy or take it but based on leverage and Fox pressing hard like Kawhi may end up best they get.

One of their other trades is Fox+Huerter for Beal :lmao

[LeBowen]

Arguable. Sabonis all star. DeRozan all star. Good shooting etc….I didnt say I would treat Ja any differently either; I said the age gap makes it so and if hypothetically you asked me about Ja 2 years from now I said I’d need to see how he develops. How is that unreasonable?

Sabonis and Derozan are great except for two most important things in modern NBA - 3pt shooting and defense.

[Leetonidas]

JFC sbnation going in on Sac with no vaseline

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2025/1/29/24354005/deaaron-fox-trade-packages-nba-rumors-kings-rockets-spurs

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/RBZFmzIwADNec3JNnxi0oeLX-2k=/0x0:2178x942/1920x0/filters:focal(0x0:2178x942):format(webp):no_upscal e()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/25850928/Screenshot_2025_01_28_at_2.41.36_PM.png

The Kings should be demoted to the G league if they were to accept this offer :lol straight up highway robbery

[DPG21920]

Age and the possibility of injury affecting a player are potential concerns of any player. It's not like Fox is injury prone (certainly has far less of an injury history and certainly takes better care of his body than Luka).

If you're afraid of injuries and age, then it's going to hold you up from ever getting anyone other than draft picks and young FAs. That's one way to build, but buckle up because it might be a long ride.

Difference in guys who can shoot and do other things vs rely on speed though IMO

[DPG21920]

One of their other trades is Fox+Huerter for Beal :lmao

OOF lol

Again, I would be very happy with Fox. I just dont want SA to overpay for so many reasons (leverage, risk, opportunity costs etc.)

[Seventyniner]

The Kings should be demoted to the G league if they were to accept this offer :lol straight up highway robbery

David Stern would rise from the grave and block the trade for basketball reasons.

[DPG21920]

Sabonis and Derozan are great except for two most important things in modern NBA - 3pt shooting and defense.

Sure - I dont love Kings build and that’s no Fox fault. But they have lots of shooting. More than Spurs would have with Fox right?

[LeBowen]

OOF lol

Again, I would be very happy with Fox. I just dont want SA to overpay for so many reasons (leverage, risk, opportunity costs etc.)

Noone wants Fox at any cost.
Most of us are saying Castle is off limits.

It's just that people overvalue picks that aren't top5, just look at our draft history before we got Wemby, 3 lottery picks included.

Devin + swap return + 3 FRPs is a fair offer for someone asking out.
Can't compare it with let's say Bridges trade because Knicks gave away 4 FRPs that will be in late 20s, Hawks picks should be late lottery.

[scott]

I can’t do it on my phone for some reason, but can someone post a graphic of darko historical dpm comparing fox, ja, and Trae young sorted by age? scott, if you have some time on your hands. My point here is that award designations like ‘all star’ don’t necessarily catch the magnitude of a players impact, and even team success is often a function of quality of roster construction.

I got you fam. I think part of what is happening here is that a lot of folks are just unfamiliar with Fox's game. That's understandable, homie plays in fucking Sacramento - none of us should be forced to follow the Kangz.

But... iykyk, De'Aaron is better than these other guys.

https://i.postimg.cc/5tYmyjdf/Fox-Ja-Trae.png

[Blizzardwizard]

I think this will drag out to the offseason. Kings are probably just testing the market. In free agency the Rockets should be making a more significant offer to up the price, but who knows.


If they have been told by player and agent that he will not be staying in Sacramento long-term they have little choice but to move Fox now.


He's a depreciating asset worth less to the Kings with every trade window they don't move him.


They'd also run the risk of Fox suffering a serious injury before the offseason and effectively becoming worthless to them.

[scott]

Here's another pretty chart for everyone. It's clear that Shai and Luka are in another category (they are Top 5 players, true Superstar category), but the difference between them and Fox is a lot smaller than the difference between say, Fox and Collin Sexton.

Also, mind the shape of these curves. All fairly identical. Lads, Fox is a Top 25 player. Folks who can't at least acknowledge that just don't know ball.

There are only 30 teams in the league. Having two Top 25 players puts you far ahead of most teams. When one of them happens to be a Top 5 player? Now you've really got something to build on.

https://i.postimg.cc/v8Ltcpjx/Fox-Shai-Luka.png

[DPG21920]

Noone wants Fox at any cost.
Most of us are saying Castle is off limits.

It's just that people overvalue picks that aren't top5, just look at our draft history before we got Wemby, 3 lottery picks included.

Devin + swap return + 3 FRPs is a fair offer for someone asking out.
Can't compare it with let's say Bridges trade because Knicks gave away 4 FRPs that will be in late 20s, Hawks picks should be late lottery.

Ive seen plenty of “do whatever it takes” takes….

Ive also said Devin + Kings Swap + worst of ATL/SA 25 + worst of ATL/SA 27 is fine. So not sure why all the hate and anger then towards me. Also, fair isnt the point here given leverage. Fox demanding out and telling teams SA or bust as of now.

[stnick2261]

It's very simple: We get Fox without giving up Castle or our '25FRPs

Draft Flagg this summer. Trade for Markkanen.

Fox / Castle / Flagg / Markkanen / Wemby

[scott]

If they have been told by player and agent that he will not be staying in Sacramento long-term they have little choice but to move Fox now.


He's a depreciating asset worth less to the Kings with every trade window they don't move him.


They'd also run the risk of Fox suffering a serious injury before the offseason and effectively becoming worthless to them.

This one I think I can see both ways.

I think the Kings actually get more leverage by waiting until the offseason. Fox isn't going to want to give up the 5th year and $77MM by waiting until Free Agency, and the Kings know this. Right now Fox is trying to get to San Antonio, but I think he'll be open to more options this offseason, and that's when the Kings might be able to regain some leverage.

But, there is definitely a risk that Fox gets injured, or the pieces the Kings want come off the board at the deadline, or the Fox just sticks with his guns.

[Strategic]

Hoping the FO is running down hill towards this if Fox really does want to be a Spur. Maybe ask for Kings 2 way contract Isaac Jones for gravy. Wouldn’t expect too much from Jones, but maybe he’ll turn out better than Bassey.

[spurraider21]

One of their other trades is Fox+Huerter for Beal :lmao
would be more hilarious if the teams actually agreed to that but beal nixes it with his NTC

[Jordan Jackson]

This is the Kawhi situation without the Uncle. Everyone knew he was Clippers bound.

Another team may trade for Fox hoping to change his mind - but he is ultimately going to make his way to the Spurs. It’s a basketball decision. On/Off the court.

[DPG21920]

Would be great if ATL was ready to blow it up. We offer to give them their 25 & 27 picks back so they can tank. Trae goes to SAC which is enough compensation for Fox straight up mostly. SA gets Fox. And we just give ATL their 2 picks back (ATL has to pay a premium to get their picks back which is giving up Trae for those picks). Something like that with maybe excess seconds and matching salaries from SA out as well but non-core guys (NO Vassell, Castle, Sochan etc..)

[Seventyniner]

This is the Kawhi situation without the Uncle. Everyone knew he was Clippers bound.

Another team may trade for Fox hoping to change his mind - but he is ultimately going to make his way to the Spurs. It’s a basketball decision. On/Off the court.

Number Two did set the precedent here. Everyone knew his preferred destination and he walked away from the Raptors the moment he was able to. Teams are probably wary of giving up too much for a high-end rental.

[td4mvp2k]

fox did the spurs a huge favor and just lowered the price spurs need to take advantage

[KingKev]

It's very simple: We get Fox without giving up Castle or our '25FRPs

Draft Flagg this summer. Trade for Markkanen.

Fox / Castle / Flagg / Markkanen / Wemby

Can’t tell if this is serious or not. But that would be nice.

[vy65]

https://www.sacbee.com/sports/nba/sacramento-kings/article299376334.html

It's hard not to read a lot into him actually being somewhat open about having a desired place other than SAC.

[spurraider21]

shuffle some picks around

https://i.gyazo.com/91912fb78050468aaafc8ab3f38c6d44.png

[BatManu20]

This thread's gonna be at 100 pages before the Trade Deadline :lol

[Spurminator]

this is an underrated part of the discussion. not luka specifically. but that trading for Fox doesnt kill flexibility like some make it out to be. lets not blow our wad here, lets wait for something better.

even if Fox doesnt work out great, look at what ATL did with Murray. they gave up too much for him, he signed an extension with them, and it didnt work out. but they then flipped him for 2 picks and dyson daniels and recouped a good amount of the value. assuming we extend fox, we'd have a very good player under a long term contract during his prime.

Same with Dallas and Porzingis. They traded a promising young rookie (Smith Jr, who put up better rookie numbers than Castle) to land a known talent. He wasn't working well next to Luka, so they flipped him for some solid role players and made the WCF. Then they landed Kyrie Irving.

Big swing trades don't have to be lifetime commitments.

[Dverde]

I got this through the trade machine. Spurs would have to include some picks. Kings get a win now player, Sac probably only team dumb enough to try Trae/Demar combo.

Kings - Trae Young

Hawks - Devin Vassell, Zach Collins, Kevin Huerter (return of the king)

Spurs - Fox, Capela (expiring)

[BatManu20]

shuffle some picks around

https://i.gyazo.com/91912fb78050468aaafc8ab3f38c6d44.png

Spurs get significantly worse here according to Hollinger :lol

Honestly tho, would hate to lose Castle in this deal but I'm sure he personally wouldn't mind going back home to ATL where he grew up tbh.

[spurraider21]

another hypothetical where the spurs give up neither Castle nor Vassell and only give up 3 picks

1884699521185092043

[Blizzardwizard]

Worth mentioning that Kings insider James Ham just mentioned on SAC local radio that Fox has made it clear he would not sign an extension in Houston and doesn't want to go there.


I doubt HOU would seriously entertain a Fox trade right now anyway but that's one of the only teams who could seriously rival an SAS trade package likely off the board.

[stnick2261]

Can’t tell if this is serious or not. But that would be nice.

Tongue in cheek. It won't happen but, like winning the lottery, it's nice to think about

[LeBowen]

another hypothetical where the spurs give up neither Castle nor Vassell and only give up 3 picks

1884699521185092043

If I was a Kings fan, I'd straight up stop following basketball if this happens.
Imagine having Beal and Demar under contract for 2 more years. :lmao

[Seventyniner]

Spurs get significantly worse here according to Hollinger :lol

Honestly tho, would hate to lose Castle in this deal but I'm sure he personally wouldn't mind going back home to ATL where he grew up tbh.

https://i.ibb.co/N2y7rN8n/hollinger-wtf.jpg

Not very readable, it's Jokic + SGA + Giannis to the Wizards for salary filler where the Wizards somehow get 6 wins worse, DEN and OC are the same, MIL gets 6 wins better. Something is very broken in the calculation.

[spurraider21]

:lmao bucks +6 wins by trading giannis for bagley and poole
:lmao okc remaining neutral after getting shits for SGA

yeah... the win/loss thing is definitely broken

[rascal]

definitely possible. and they would have more leverage, especially in the case of someone like a myles turner who would be a FA anyway. i'm actually more concerned about this year's #1 picks. SAC would want them and with jalen johnson out, ATL could drop to around 7th or 8th. our own pick could hover around 9th or 10th.

That would give the Spurs two chances at getting into the top 4 where they can add a future all star level player.

[John B]

I’m excited to get Fox if ever, but not as excited if it were a Markkanen or a JJJ, especially if we lose Harrison Barnes. There’s a gaping hole at 4.

[scott]

I like the ATL ideas, but I'm not sure Trae is the guy they'd want. I think they're interested in the Monk/Ellis/Carter 3-man guard rotation. It might be Hunter who is the guy they'd really want.

[LeBowen]

It might be Hunter who is the guy they'd really want.

Been saying this for a long time.

Spurs out:
'25 ATL, '26 SAS/ATL, '27 ATL, '31 SAS/SAC extinguished
Devin
Tre

Spurs in:
Fox

Kings out:
Fox
Huerter

Kings in:
Hunter
Devin
Tre
'31 swap returned
'25 SAC returned

Hawks out:
Hunter
'25 SAC

Hawks in:
Huerter
'25 ATL
'26 ATL/SAS
'27 ATL


I'd hope to keep that '26 swap so we have one pick each year, would it be legal for us to extinguish the swap in this trade and just keep our own '26 pick?

[Dverde]

This is the Kawhi situation without the Uncle. Everyone knew he was Clippers bound.

Another team may trade for Fox hoping to change his mind - but he is ultimately going to make his way to the Spurs. It’s a basketball decision. On/Off the court.

Fox hasn’t abandoned his teammates yet. Hasn’t blamed the team for misdiagnosis his injury. Hasn’t demanded a trade yet. Hasn’t demanded to be traded only to a certain city.

[DPG21920]

I dont know if ATL would do it - they have not given any indication that they want to blow it up. But would definitely help SA.

I mean, even with Trae they are still a play-in level team. it’s not great. They landed number one pick and cant change fortunes at all. Trae is due an extension soon and then how will ATL improve after paying him?

They are in a very tough spot and I do wonder if they had their own picks if they would have already moved Trae?

[scott]

I'd hope to keep that '26 swap so we have one pick each year, would it be legal for us to extinguish the swap in this trade and just keep our own '26 pick?

Yes, that would be legal. We can't trade the swap on it's own to another team, but we can agree to extinguish a swap with the original team.

[Dverde]

I like the ATL ideas, but I'm not sure Trae is the guy they'd want. I think they're interested in the Monk/Ellis/Carter 3-man guard rotation. It might be Hunter who is the guy they'd really want.

You would think that, but the Kings be the Kings. Run out Young, Demar, Sabonis and try to outscore everyone.

[LeBowen]

Yes, that would be legal. We can't trade the swap on it's own to another team, but we can agree to extinguish a swap with the original team.

Alright, that's about as fair of a trade as I can think of.

Kings lose Fox, but get Devin, Hunter and Tre with both picks they don't control back.

Spurs give up 3 golden tickets (:lol) and Devin for Fox.

Hawks get control of their picks back in exchange for their 6th man.

[spurraider21]

If I was a Kings fan, I'd straight up stop following basketball if this happens.
Imagine having Beal and Demar under contract for 2 more years. :lmao
to be fair they make sense as a pairing sylistically with beal being a good off-ball player. he could play off derozan and monk and fit in well assuming he's healthy.

[rjv]

Good call out. I did mention that one a couple dozen pages ago. I love Castle, and I absolutely want to keep him. But if he's the cost of getting the deal done, then I think you do it. Could Castle turn into a better player than Fox? It's possible. It is likely? I don't think so.

With that said, I think Castle + Vassell + picks is too much. I think I would do Castle + Vassell with no picks, but if we are sending out picks, it only one of Devin or Castle (I try my hardest to make it Devin, and I think Devin fits SAC better anyway personally).

Doing Castle + Devin with no picks might be a hotter take, but it still leaves me with plenty of assets to build the team around my new StarFox Big 2. It also now makes Jeremy playable as a starter and provides some flexibility on what you can do. Keeping Castle means Jeremy becomes a bench guy and you need to out and get shooting wings (Barnes is a good fit and we have him already).

That's my personal opinion on Castle. But... I repeat, I try my damnedest to keep Steph.

that being said, i think it's a moot point. i'd be absolutely stunned if the spurs gave castle up. i think he's the only other spur besides Wemby that I can say that about.

[mo7888]

What I'm reading is that there are quite a few here that think getting Fox will preclude us from getting someone else this summer and I don't think that's the case at all. I also see sentiments here that Lauri won't be available this summer and I think both views are wrong. As long as we don't go nuts with the Fox trade we will have plenty of capital to go after Lauri this summer (or another player of that stature).

Devin and 3 firsts is completely reasonable (especially if you can expand the deal to send out Keldon and take back Heurter). Even adding Castle and reducing the pick out to two firsts is perfectly reasonable. I don't really prefer to do that but, I would to get a deal done.

[Seventyniner]

3 golden tickets

Don't forget that 4 of the 5 golden tickets in the book ended up being busts.

[vy65]

Been saying this for a long time.

Spurs out:
'25 ATL, '26 SAS/ATL, '27 ATL, '31 SAS/SAC extinguished
Devin
Tre

Spurs in:
Fox

Kings out:
Fox
Huerter

Kings in:
Hunter
Devin
Tre
'31 swap returned
'25 SAC returned

Hawks out:
Hunter
'25 SAC

Hawks in:
Huerter
'25 ATL
'26 ATL/SAS
'27 ATL


I'd hope to keep that '26 swap so we have one pick each year, would it be legal for us to extinguish the swap in this trade and just keep our own '26 pick?

This feels like an overpay. I think the SAS/SAC 20131 pick is what pushes it over the top for me.

[BatManu20]

https://i.ibb.co/N2y7rN8n/hollinger-wtf.jpg

Not very readable, it's Jokic + SGA + Giannis to the Wizards for salary filler where the Wizards somehow get 6 wins worse, DEN and OC are the same, MIL gets 6 wins better. Something is very broken in the calculation.

Christ :lol. Broken is an understatement. They need to just get rid of Hollinger's predictions altogether, clearly.

[LeBowen]

This feels like an overpay. I think the SAS/SAC 20131 pick is what pushes it over the top for me.

If we're to get Fox, that swap is the first thing they'll ask for, as they should.
That's the only asset I'm certain will be involved in the trade.

[DPG21920]

Ya - if Spurs are going to allow ATL to do what they need to do, they need to be paid a premium IMO

Sending ATL their picks back should be end of it. No Dev/Castle/Sochan goes out either. Maybe some 2nds if need be. But SAC getting Trae for Fox is even and enough compensation.

ATL needs to pay SA a premium to get their future back and ability to tank so us giving them 25, 26 swap and 27 is enough. SA sends out Collins/Keldon type money


Would anyone do, Fox aside:

Spurs Get: ATL 28 unprotected & ATL 29 Unprotected

ATL Gets: ATL 25 back & ATL 26 swap back

Spurs turn 1 unprotected and 1 swap into 2 unprotected picks and ATL gets control of their next two years and can reboot and trade Trae elsewhere if they want.

[mo7888]

Ya - if Spurs are going to allow ATL to do what they need to do, they need to be paid a premium IMO

Sending ATL their picks back should be end of it. No Dev/Castle/Sochan goes out either. Maybe some 2nds if need be. But SAC getting Trae for Fox is even and enough compensation.

ATL needs to pay SA a premium to get their future back and ability to tank so us giving them 25, 26 swap and 27 is enough. SA sends out Collins/Keldon type money


Would anyone do, Fox aside:

Spurs Get: ATL 28 unprotected & ATL 29 Unprotected

ATL Gets: ATL 25 back & ATL 26 swap back

Spurs turn 1 unprotected and 1 swap into 2 unprotected picks and ATL gets control of their next two years and can reboot and trade Trae elsewhere if they want.

I would do that ATL pick swap trade.

[scott]

Ya - if Spurs are going to allow ATL to do what they need to do, they need to be paid a premium IMO

Sending ATL their picks back should be end of it. No Dev/Castle/Sochan goes out either. Maybe some 2nds if need be. But SAC getting Trae for Fox is even and enough compensation.

ATL needs to pay SA a premium to get their future back and ability to tank so us giving them 25, 26 swap and 27 is enough. SA sends out Collins/Keldon type money


Would anyone do, Fox aside:

Spurs Get: ATL 28 unprotected & ATL 29 Unprotected

ATL Gets: ATL 25 back & ATL 26 swap back

Spurs turn 1 unprotected and 1 swap into 2 unprotected picks and ATL gets control of their next two years and can reboot and trade Trae elsewhere if they want.

I would definitely do that but I don't think ATL would. But if they're offering, I'm taking.

Edit: this would actually be an illegal trade though. ATL can send us ATL28 or ATL29, but not both, because it would violate the Stepien rule. (ATL has an extra pick incoming in 27 which allows them to trade ATL28)

[Dverde]

“In this league, I expect the unexpected,” Fox said in a brief interview Wednesday at Kings shootaround in Philadelphia before taking on the 76ers. “I think crazier things have happened.

[vy65]

If we're to get Fox, that swap is the first thing they'll ask for, as they should.
That's the only asset I'm certain will be involved in the trade.

I think that's right, and I'm definitely not opposed to including it as comp, but not with all of ATL's picks going back. I'd be fine with the framework, but we keep 1 of the Hawks picks.

[baseline bum]

Worth mentioning that Kings insider James Ham just mentioned on SAC local radio that Fox has made it clear he would not sign an extension in Houston and doesn't want to go there.


I doubt HOU would seriously entertain a Fox trade right now anyway but that's one of the only teams who could seriously rival an SAS trade package likely off the board.

You have a link? Would love to hear the segment.

[DPG21920]

I would definitely do that but I don't think ATL would. But if they're offering, I'm taking.

Edit: this would actually be an illegal trade though. ATL can send us ATL28 or ATL29, but not both, because it would violate the Stepien rule. (ATL has an extra pick incoming in 27 which allows them to trade ATL28)

Ya - just make the other pick ATL 30 or whatever it needs to be etc…was thinking of how HOU gave BKY picks back type deal. ATL can control next two years and tank and trade Trae for a nice haul too and SA gets compensated via another unprotected first instead of a swap for allowing it etc….

Just something I can see maybe even if it’s not in Fox deal. But would be great to just send Trae to Sac for Fox, the 2 picks + swap to ATL alongside non core matching salaries and SA gets Fox that way.

[Blizzardwizard]

You have a link? Would love to hear the segment.


Kings Trade Options, Matchup With the 76ers - January 29: The Insiders + D-Lo & KC - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-T0wd8HZ5w)


It's a live broadcast right now but it was about 48 minutes in from the start of the stream.

[Mnky]

Not sure what you are referring to, but would be happy to discuss if you clarify.



The next Spurs dynasty will also be built through the draft in that we drafted Wemby. He is the core, just like Giannis is the core in MIL, Joker is the core in DEN, etc. Wemby isn't just a star, he's a superstar. I would compare it to BOS. Tatum and Brown were drafted, but pretty much the rest of the their main rotation was acquired via trade (Derrick, Jrue, Kristaps). They have some other guys they drafted (Prichard) who they drafted, and the Spurs will still have picks to add more players.



Of course its about the right price. I haven't seen anyone dispute that. And pretty much everyone in this thread has said no to Vassell + Castle. The only way I'd do that is if it includes no picks (but I'd rather keep Castle and send out some picks, personally). It's correct Fox is not a superstar. Neither are Mitchell, Gobert, KAT, Bridges though. I'd put Fox in roughly the same category as those guys (Mitchell and KAT mostly, I'd put him above Gobert and Bridges).

The last Superstar trade we saw was for a 34 year old KD on a team that was blowing it up. That cost PHX 5 FRPs plus Bridges and Cam Johnson. In the event a true Superstar comes available, are you ready to pay THAT kind of price? The Spurs don't even have a Bridges or a Cam Johnson to trade.



Who's making that argument? It seems like the only people making that argument are those out of touch with current NBA trade values and confusing a package of Vassell + 3 FRPs + SAC's swap (which is on the high end of what pretty much anyone has suggested in here) with a Superstar package. That is not a superstar package. There isn't a single superstar in this league you could acquire with that package (and when we say Superstar, we're talking about Shai, Jokic, Giannis, Luka, Curry, Lebron, KD, Wemby and maybe Tatum.)



The Spurs were a luxury tax team several times during the Duncan era. 2002, 2004, 2006, 2009, 2011. Their stars took pay cuts so the team could bring in more talent to compete. Kidd didn't not come here because of Tony, he didn't come here because his wife didn't want to move to San Antonio. The fact that aren't many teams who just bring in superstars outside of a handful of big markets is the point. San Antonio isn't one of those markets, so getting Top 25 talent isn't an avenue that is just always open to us.



You must be confusing me with someone else, because I never made that argument, so I was confused that when it was in response to me. I'm actually not even sure what you're talking about at this point? I don't have a "Fox wants to leave story" - I was responding to when you said "Don't pay big for someone you're comfortable walking in a couple years."



If history has shown trading a superstar price... why did you just say that you want to wait to trade for a superstar? Your words: "If you're shooting for the stars, just pay big and go for an established superstar." You're posts are really contradictory, but what I gather is that you just don't want to overpay for Fox. That's fine, none of us do.

The original point was that most people are offering overpay in this thread.

Not good.

[benefactor]

Classic DPG. Dancing with the one he came with while sneaking over to the other side of the room and grabbing some girl's ass.

Feels like the old days.

[Tyronn Lue]

Most of these teams are just trying to get a few extra games a year in the playoffs, a few more wins, sell some tickets. Very few have real championship DNA.

[scott]

Kings Trade Options, Matchup With the 76ers - January 29: The Insiders + D-Lo & KC - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-T0wd8HZ5w)


It's a live broadcast right now but it was about 48 minutes in from the start of the stream.

These guys want Vassell, Castle, Sochan and Champ and picks for Fox and Huerter :lol

No thanks fellas.

[TeKu]

3. We should just wait for [Insert Player Here], he's better!

Some of these are not serious suggestions. Luka is also not going to be a Free Agent in the summer of 2026. He is not turning down a 5/35% supermax so that he can become a free agent and sign a 4/30% FA max. It's simply laughable to even believe this for a minute. Luka will sign a SuperMax this summer. He will be eligible to be traded 6 months after that. Could he demand a trade? Sure? Is there any reason to believe he will? Not serious ones. The same goes with Ant. You'll be waiting until 2029 to see if he demands a trade, because he won't do it before he secures a SuperMax. To my knowledge, Kawhi is the only player who has foregone a shoe-in SuperMax to force his way out.

But if by some 0.0001% chance happened and Luka was available next season or became a Free Agent... I could just see the posts now... "IDK about Luka, I really like Vassell I'm not sure he's worth giving up... and did you know that Shai is a Free Agent in 2027?" It's a never ending cycle. PATFO's Patience Grift has created an army of cultists who are always waiting to gamble on the next improbable scenario



Am onboard with with your #'s 1,2,4 completely, and even to an extent with the above (no-one with the possibility of a super-max is forcing their way anywhere prior to signing that), but there is always movement at the All-Star level each year. Movement via trade and movement no-one would realistically have expected 2 seasons prior (eg: 22/23 season was Sac's light the beam season where they won the division, finished 3rd in conference and Brown was unanimous coach of the year, anyone picking Fox to force his way out then would have been laughed at). Looking at All-Star roster movement is roughly about +10% for each year you go back. 3/26 from last years AS rosters are with different teams (PG, KAT, Randle), 5/26 from 23 AS's (prev 3 + Siakim and DeRozan), 8/26 from 22 AS's. The majority of these via trade (exception PG to 76ers) given how Free Agency now works. So there very likely will be 2-3 players from this years All Stars sitting on different teams this time next year, and while reading the tea leaves in reverse it'll make some sense, some will be largely out of the blue (e.g T-Wolves were #1 in the West this time last year yet KAT is now happily on the Knicks).

I'm intrigued by Fox, and B Wright should be looking at extracting value here if possible, but my preference for a 2nd star would always be a wing over a point guard. I still think there is a +50% chance Markannen is back on the market in the off season and, if we're paying over the top for someone, would much prefer him over Fox.

Will be a fun week.

[DPG21920]

Classic DPG. Dancing with the one he came with while sneaking over to the other side of the room and grabbing some girl's ass.

Feels like the old days.

:lol

[Blizzardwizard]

These guys want Vassell, Castle, Sochan and Champ and picks for Fox and Huerter :lol

No thanks fellas.


Yeah I cringed hearing that. How much leverage do they think SAC have?


They're either coping or genuinely don't realize Fox is gonna be on an expiring this summer and doesn't have 3+ years left on his current deal.

[DPG21920]

These guys want Vassell, Castle, Sochan and Champ and picks for Fox and Huerter :lol

No thanks fellas.

They are in for a rude awakening and if SAC does that and holds that ridiculous line and tries to tell Fox “sorry, we tried” he will absolutely walk on them in FA IMO

[Obstructed_View]

I'm okay waiting a bit to sign him and the Kings get nothing.

[scott]

Am onboard with with your #'s 1,2,4 completely, and even to an extent with the above (no-one with the possibility of a super-max is forcing their way anywhere prior to signing that), but there is always movement at the All-Star level each year. Movement via trade and movement no-one would realistically have expected 2 seasons prior (eg: 22/23 season was Sac's light the beam season where they won the division, finished 3rd in conference and Brown was unanimous coach of the year, anyone picking Fox to force his way out then would have been laughed at). Looking at All-Star roster movement is roughly about +10% for each year you go back. 3/26 from last years AS rosters are with different teams (PG, KAT, Randle), 5/26 from 23 AS's (prev 3 + Siakim and DeRozan), 8/26 from 22 AS's. The majority of these via trade (exception PG to 76ers) given how Free Agency now works. So there very likely will be 2-3 players from this years All Stars sitting on different teams this time next year, and while reading the tea leaves in reverse it'll make some sense, some will be largely out of the blue (e.g T-Wolves were #1 in the West this time last year yet KAT is now happily on the Knicks).

I'm intrigued by Fox, and B Wright should be looking at extracting value here if possible, but my preference for a 2nd star would always be a wing over a point guard. I still think there is a +50% chance Markannen is back on the market in the off season and, if we're paying over the top for someone, would much prefer him over Fox.

Will be a fun week.

I would also probably prioritize Mark over Fox, and I do think there is a good chance Mark could be available this summer... but I also think you can get Fox now and still get Mark this summer if you wanted. So if you want Lauri, that in and of itself is not an impeded by getting Fox. Now, whether the Spurs want to be a team that operates just below the tax line, is another question.

[BacktoBasics]

These guys want Vassell, Castle, Sochan and Champ and picks for Fox and Huerter :lol

No thanks fellas.

This is expected and Fox saying we’re a preferred destination did nothing to help the situation. I already didn’t like the likely asking price of two rotation players and 3 picks.

I’m not even sold on moving the ATL pick with JJ now out. A player and a 1st with an additionally protected 1st is fine. I wouldn’t be interested in unloading a bag for him.

[RC_Drunkford]

This is a strawman. Nothing about not trading for Fox means Im arguing sa hold all their picks and make no other moves for 5 years. Thats redacted and before Fox became available this was never the argument lol

if you say keep the picks and draft your second star that‘s exactly how long it would take to turn this roster into a contender. Just out of curiosity, when exactly would you plan on contending for a title? When are you drafting a star and when is Doncic (or all your other possible options) available, so you can trade for him? Just curious on what your gameplan and timeline would be.

[scott]

Here are some scenarios that Vecenie threw out in the Athletic today:

Scenario 1.

Spurs Get: Fox, Simone Fontecchio
Spurs Send: Tre, Blake, Mamu, Barnes, Bran, SA25, ATL25, CHI25, ATL27, SA25 SRP

Kings Get: Tre, Blake, Mamu, SA25, ATL25, CHI25, ATL27
Kings Send: Fox

Pistons Get: Barnes, Bran, SA25 SRP
Pistons Send: Simone Fontecchio

Scenario 2

Spurs get: Fox, Davion Mitchell
Spurs sends: Barnes, Branham, Tre, Blake, CHI25, AT25, SA25, SAC31 Swap, MIN28 SPR, NOP28 SRP

MIA gets: Bruce Brown, Demar, CHI25
MIA sends: Jimmy Butler

TOR gets: Barnes, Bran, MIN28 SRP, NOP28 SRP
TOR sends: Bruce Brown, Davion Mitchell

SAC gets: Jimmy, Tre, Blake, ATL25, SAS25, SAC31 swap torn up
SAC sends: Fox

Love Sam but I hate both of these. If this is the cost, I'm saying no and telling SAC to call us back when they're ready to get serious.

[scott]

Here is Sam's mini-scouting report on Fox, though, for those who aren't super familiar with Swipa


Fox is averaging 25.2 points, five rebounds and 6.2 assists per game, and he remains utterly dynamic with the ball in his hands as one of the fastest guards in the league. However, over the last three years, he’s taken an arguably bigger leap by showcasing the ability to slow down and play at pace.
He’s more efficient and economical with his decision-making. He continues to get to the free-throw line at a high level and makes his shots on the interior with a great floater game as well as the ability to turn the corner on rim protectors. He’s one of those players who doesn’t need a ball screen to get paint touches but is also elite with a ball screen because he possesses a three-level scoring arsenal. His 3-point shot comes and goes, and it’s what teams feel comfortable giving up when he’s on the attack. However, he has hit 35.4 percent of his seven 3-point attempts per game over the last year and a half.
Fox remains a borderline All-Star even in a loaded Western Conference. He’s a top-30 player in the league, and teams would love to acquire him. The Kings also would love to keep him. Will they be willing to trade him before the deadline and upend what has quickly been a turnaround season since they fired Mike Brown as coach and inserted Doug Christie into the role?
Sacramento is 24-22, firmly in the Play-In Tournament picture and just two games out of the No. 6 seed in the West. However, the Kings have a tough schedule the rest of the way. Their opponents’ winning percentage the rest of the year is 50.9 percent, which is eighth-highest in the league. Also, 20 of their remaining 36 games are on the road.
The Kings need to balance how much they’re winning, how much more positive things look under Christie and what they think their ceiling is this year with their future contract situation, Fox’s value in a trade, the fact that Fox’s trade value drops in the offseason (teams acquiring him now would get two postseason runs with Fox, not just one) and how much harder their schedule gets.
Who will offer a massive package of assets for Fox if he’s already indicating where he wants to end up long term, as has been noted throughout all of the reporting? The San Antonio Spurs have long been seen league-wide as the most likely destination, but what other teams could get involved?
If Fox gets dealt before the deadline, the Spurs seem like the most likely team, but if this gets to the offseason, you never know what could happen. With the help of Spotrac’s trade machine, I’ve dug into a few potential trade-deadline deals on Fox.

[benefactor]

This is one of the rare instances that gives both teams the opportunity to act within reason and not resort to extremes to get this deal done. But hey, we are talking about the NBA and executives. There's about a 90% chance someone over plays their hand.:lol

[scott]

Gonna post a few more tidbits from Sam's article (I know we aren't supposed to post the whole thing). This goes to the idea of Castle as a PG of the future:


For months, the Spurs have been connected with Fox in league circles as a potential destination to pair him with Victor Wembanyama. The fit is obvious. The Spurs have been looking for a long-term answer at the point guard position since moving Dejounte Murray in the summer of 2022. Chris Paul has done a great job of organizing the team this season, but he’s limited as a scorer and turns 40 in May. Tre Jones looks like a good backup point guard, but he’s probably just that.
The Spurs drafted Stephon Castle this past year with designs on him potentially filling the point guard role down the road, but he’s been much better this season when he has played next to Paul in the starting lineup as opposed to when he is asked to create as more of a primary option.
With Paul and Castle together on the court, the Spurs have won their 550 minutes by 1.3 points per 100 possessions. With Castle on the court without Paul, they’ve lost those 514 minutes by 3.2 points per 100, and the offense has been the significant issue. With Paul and Castle on the court, the Spurs average 119.2 points per 100 possessions. With Castle on the court without Paul, they average 106.7. And if Castle is on the court without either Jones or Paul, the Spurs have lost those minutes by 12.7 points per 100 possessions with an offensive rating of 102.4.
I love Castle as a player, but I’ve never seen him as a primary lead guard. He’s always been better to me as a terrific connective player on the wing who passes well, defends well and makes a ton of terrific decisions on the court while acting as a secondary ballhandler.
That’s a perfect role to play next to Fox, whose quickness would give the Spurs the kind of significant athletic boost that they’ve lacked at times in the past two years with Wembanyama. Think about how synergistic this pairing could be: Fox speeding down the court in transition, collapsing the defense and forcing it into the paint in help before Wembanyama trails the play from behind and gets a wide-open catch-and-shoot 3. Or, in ball-screen actions, Fox’s ability to consistently get paint touches would make Wembanyama’s pick-and-pop game that much harder to deal with. The way teams tend to guard the Spurs now is simply by switching a lot of those actions. But with Fox, it’s much harder to switch and put a big on him because of his blow-by speed mixed with his ability to decelerate into a floater.
The Spurs are currently 25th in the league in drives, 22nd in the league in field goal percentage on drives and 27th in points per game off drives. This is even though they have arguably the league’s best weapon ever at spacing the floor from the center position in Wembanyama. No 6-foot-11 or taller center has ever taken more than 7.1 3s per game over a full season. Wembanyama is taking over nine 3s per game and making them at a 35 percent clip. He gets guarded when he’s away from the rim already at just 21 years old. The synergy between Fox and longtime Kings center Domantas Sabonis has been great, but with Wembanyama, it has a chance to be even better if the Spurs build this roster correctly around this duo because Fox will have genuine space in the lane.

[vy65]

Here are some scenarios that Vecenie threw out in the Athletic today:

Scenario 1.

Spurs Get: Fox, Simone Fontecchio
Spurs Send: Tre, Blake, Mamu, Barnes, Bran, SA25, ATL25, CHI25, ATL27, SA25 SRP

Kings Get: Tre, Blake, Mamu, SA25, ATL25, CHI25, ATL27
Kings Send: Fox

Pistons Get: Barnes, Bran, SA25 SRP
Pistons Send: Simone Fontecchio

Scenario 2

Spurs get: Fox, Davion Mitchell
Spurs sends: Barnes, Branham, Tre, Blake, CHI25, AT25, SA25, SAC31 Swap, MIN28 SPR, NOP28 SRP

MIA gets: Bruce Brown, Demar, CHI25
MIA sends: Jimmy Butler

TOR gets: Barnes, Bran, MIN28 SRP, NOP28 SRP
TOR sends: Bruce Brown, Davion Mitchell

SAC gets: Jimmy, Tre, Blake, ATL25, SAS25, SAC31 swap torn up
SAC sends: Fox

Love Sam but I hate both of these. If this is the cost, I'm saying no and telling SAC to call us back when they're ready to get serious.

Really? I actually like both. You keep Castle + DV24 (who you can, and should, ship out separately), keep some near term draft capital (ATL26 Swap), keep your long term draft capital (20131) and are getting a serviceable player in addition to Fox. I think Fontecchio would go some ways towards addressing our shooting problems if I'm remembering him right

[Sugus]

Gonna post a few more tidbits from Sam's article (I know we aren't supposed to post the whole thing). This goes to the idea of Castle as a PG of the future:

I'm trying so fucking hard not to get over-excited and keep it cool....

But MAN, am I dying to see this combination.

Fox with Wemby would be a sight to behold. And there's a notorious amount of smoke around....

[Leetonidas]

One thing is for certain...we are all going to spend an inordinate amount of time here constantly refreshing this thread for the next week :lol

[DPG21920]

Here are some scenarios that Vecenie threw out in the Athletic today:

Scenario 1.

Spurs Get: Fox, Simone Fontecchio
Spurs Send: Tre, Blake, Mamu, Barnes, Bran, SA25, ATL25, CHI25, ATL27, SA25 SRP

Kings Get: Tre, Blake, Mamu, SA25, ATL25, CHI25, ATL27
Kings Send: Fox

Pistons Get: Barnes, Bran, SA25 SRP
Pistons Send: Simone Fontecchio

Scenario 2

Spurs get: Fox, Davion Mitchell
Spurs sends: Barnes, Branham, Tre, Blake, CHI25, AT25, SA25, SAC31 Swap, MIN28 SPR, NOP28 SRP

MIA gets: Bruce Brown, Demar, CHI25
MIA sends: Jimmy Butler

TOR gets: Barnes, Bran, MIN28 SRP, NOP28 SRP
TOR sends: Bruce Brown, Davion Mitchell

SAC gets: Jimmy, Tre, Blake, ATL25, SAS25, SAC31 swap torn up
SAC sends: Fox

Love Sam but I hate both of these. If this is the cost, I'm saying no and telling SAC to call us back when they're ready to get serious.

I hate these deals lol :cry

[Dverde]

Here is Sam's mini-scouting report on Fox, though, for those who aren't super familiar with Swipa

How big is his forehead? I also need his growth plates measurements.

[rascal]

Yeah I cringed hearing that. How much leverage do they think SAC have?


They're either coping or genuinely don't realize Fox is gonna be on an expiring this summer and doesn't have 3+ years left on his current deal.

They still don't need to gift him to the Spurs.

[scott]

Really? I actually like both. You keep Castle + DV24 (who you can, and should, ship out separately), keep some near term draft capital (ATL26 Swap), keep your long term draft capital (20131) and are getting a serviceable player in addition to Fox. I think Fontecchio would go some ways towards addressing our shooting problems if I'm remembering him right

If we could ship out Devin after the first one, it's not too bad I guess. (Sam later says in the article that the second idea with Jimmy was his "its time to go to bed" proposal). I hate losing Barnes, but it's not like he's a rare gem. I like Simone coming into this season, but he's not been good this year. Seems like a scrappy, Spurs kind of player though and he can get his shot right he's kind of what we need.

I don't know how we even field a competitive team this season until we move Devin for some other pieces though. Barnes is just a solid role player, but he kind of holds everything together for us in some ways. Maybe you also look to flip CP3? I'm not sure he's keen to be a backup, and if Devin is staying on the team does he start?

Fox/CP3
Devin/Castle
Champ/Keldon
Sochan/Fontecchio
Wemby/Bassey

Can you somehow put together some deals using Devin, Keldon, Collins? You've already burned all of your excess draft capital, so hopefully you can recoup some with Devin?

Idk... seems a little too "all-in" for me at this stage. I'd like to have at least one shot at the 25 draft.

[scott]

One thing is for certain...we are all going to spend an inordinate amount of time here constantly refreshing this thread for the next week :lol

It's the excitement of the Lauri thread all over again. I'm here for it.

[LeBowen]

Forget about Kings' fans wishes, I think we're overestimating their awful front office.
I'm sure that a competent GM would fleece them in this deal, but I'm not sure if Bryan can pull it off.

We're talking about a team that traded away an unprotected swap in a year when their franchise player will be 35 years old and their only reliable wing shooter for 35 year old Demar and then they gave him a 3 year deal.
Imagine being in charge of an NBA franchise and thinking that a team led by non-shooter Sabonis and subpar shooter Fox should trade away their most reliable wing shooter for Demar.
How do these people scam their way into NBA front offices?

Considering how mediocre this draft looks outside top5, I'd rather trade '25 FRPs than those 20131 picks other than SAC swap which obviously has to go.

[Leetonidas]

It's the excitement of the Lauri thread all over again. I'm here for it.
Except this has a way better chance of actually happening

[mo7888]

Here are some scenarios that Vecenie threw out in the Athletic today:

Scenario 1.

Spurs Get: Fox, Simone Fontecchio
Spurs Send: Tre, Blake, Mamu, Barnes, Bran, SA25, ATL25, CHI25, ATL27, SA25 SRP

Kings Get: Tre, Blake, Mamu, SA25, ATL25, CHI25, ATL27
Kings Send: Fox

Pistons Get: Barnes, Bran, SA25 SRP
Pistons Send: Simone Fontecchio

Scenario 2

Spurs get: Fox, Davion Mitchell
Spurs sends: Barnes, Branham, Tre, Blake, CHI25, AT25, SA25, SAC31 Swap, MIN28 SPR, NOP28 SRP

MIA gets: Bruce Brown, Demar, CHI25
MIA sends: Jimmy Butler

TOR gets: Barnes, Bran, MIN28 SRP, NOP28 SRP
TOR sends: Bruce Brown, Davion Mitchell

SAC gets: Jimmy, Tre, Blake, ATL25, SAS25, SAC31 swap torn up
SAC sends: Fox

Love Sam but I hate both of these. If this is the cost, I'm saying no and telling SAC to call us back when they're ready to get serious.

Yea... I want Fox, but I wouldn't pay that...

[scott]

Here's the Vecenie article for those who want to read it. You can do the quick copy+paste method to beat the paywall

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6095447/2025/01/29/deaaron-fox-trade-rumors-kings-spurs-rockets-magic/

[tim_duncan_fan]

Devin and, at max, after being pulled, kicking and screaming, 2 picks. It should be Devin and a single mid-to-late first-round pick.


DeAaron Fox is not some franchise-level player. He's on the level of a Demar.

[spurraider21]

vecenie seems convinced that Fox is a perfect fit with Wemby. however, he raises the same concerns some have brought up here about how his game will age over the course of 5+ years. ultimately says he'd make the move if he were the spurs, no doubt. co-host raises the point of if the spurs wait, who are they waiting for? unless the spurs think they are getting a legit mvp candidate type player such is shai, the gap between fox and another hypothetical player is pretty miniscule


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbmpfTc9RRQ

his idea of the trade:

https://i.gyazo.com/b21dbd15236ab43f6639f0843b580981.png

[SupremeGuy]

Realistically, the Spurs are gonna cave because they feel pressured to make a move.

I hope they prove me wrong.

Anything more than Keldon(and or Devin), Sochan, and FRP is too much.

[RC_Drunkford]

Not sure - would need to see his next two years and how it goes. But his teams are consistently doing better than Fox led teams.

Memphis does better than the Kings, how surprising. I'm sure if they switched teams, Memphis would still do better than the Kings :lol

[benefactor]

One thing is for certain...we are all going to spend an inordinate amount of time here constantly refreshing this thread for the next week :lol
Good to see ST reliving its prime a bit. I figured we had lost those years for good

[Obstructed_View]

Realistically, the Spurs are gonna cave because they feel pressured to make a move.

I hope they prove me wrong.

Anything more than Keldon(and or Devin), Sochan, and FRP is too much.
I don't think I've ever seen the Spurs make a trade because they give a shit what the fans think or that they worry about what the local media might say.

[RC_Drunkford]

vecenie seems convinced that Fox is a perfect fit with Wemby. however, he raises the same concerns some have brought up here about how his game will age over the course of 5+ years. ultimately says he'd make the move if he were the spurs, no doubt. co-host raises the point of if the spurs wait, who are they waiting for? unless the spurs think they are getting a legit mvp candidate type player such is shai, the gap between fox and another hypothetical player is pretty miniscule

his idea of the trade would be Fox to Spurs, Kings get Tre Jones/Wesley/Mamu and 4 first rounders (all the 2025 picks, spurs/hawks/bulls in addition to 2027 hawks pick) with the pistons getting involved for salary purposes (Barnes/Branham), and sending fontecchio to the spurs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbmpfTc9RRQ

According to @DPG21920 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=13014) Giannis, Luka, Joker, SGA, Tatum, Jaylen Brown, Scottie Barnes, Ant and many more will soon become available and we can pick who we take

[SupremeGuy]

I don't think I've ever seen the Spurs make a trade because they give a shit what the fans think or that they worry about what the local media might say.Shit man I was thinking about Wemby. I don't think he's happy losing this much.

[ginobilized]

So many theories......

If this does come to pass, somebody about 20 pages back mentioned that we could hold Fox out, get him fixed up physically AND tank this season. I don't hate that, but, it seems un-Spursian, though smart. Who knows, maybe we get a great 3&D or tough-nosed front court player in the draft? Stranger things have happened.
I do think load management would be a welcome idea for Fox as he's really beat up due to overuse. His buckets would come so much easier with Wemby. I love the trade mentioned whereby we trade Tre, Wesley, Mamu, Branham and Barnes and 4 picks. HB has been amazing, but, that's too sweet of a deal to pass up. I'd hope that we keep at least one 1st this draft and push back a couple of years for that other 1st.

[SupremeGuy]

One thing is for certain...we are all going to spend an inordinate amount of time here constantly refreshing this thread for the next week :lolYou son of a bitch, yes. :toast

[tim_duncan_fan]

Shit man I was thinking about Wemby. I don't think he's happy losing this much.

Then he should fill out a bit and develop a post-game, if we are honest.

[RC_Drunkford]

Here are some scenarios that Vecenie threw out in the Athletic today:

Scenario 1.

Spurs Get: Fox, Simone Fontecchio
Spurs Send: Tre, Blake, Mamu, Barnes, Bran, SA25, ATL25, CHI25, ATL27, SA25 SRP

Kings Get: Tre, Blake, Mamu, SA25, ATL25, CHI25, ATL27
Kings Send: Fox

Pistons Get: Barnes, Bran, SA25 SRP
Pistons Send: Simone Fontecchio

Scenario 2

Spurs get: Fox, Davion Mitchell
Spurs sends: Barnes, Branham, Tre, Blake, CHI25, AT25, SA25, SAC31 Swap, MIN28 SPR, NOP28 SRP

MIA gets: Bruce Brown, Demar, CHI25
MIA sends: Jimmy Butler

TOR gets: Barnes, Bran, MIN28 SRP, NOP28 SRP
TOR sends: Bruce Brown, Davion Mitchell

SAC gets: Jimmy, Tre, Blake, ATL25, SAS25, SAC31 swap torn up
SAC sends: Fox

Love Sam but I hate both of these. If this is the cost, I'm saying no and telling SAC to call us back when they're ready to get serious.

a little too pick heavy if you ask me. I definitely want to keep the 25 ATL pick since JJ is out for the season. This shows you one thing though: there's some ability here to get Fox without giving up Vassell, Castle, Sochan and that would be really exciting. Would be a 3-4 team deal, but since the Kings also want Cam Johnson and John Collins, there are plenty of scenarios.

Btw according to Kings fans, the Kings have 2 GMs. Like a GM and a vice GM, but somehow the vice GM is the real GM and leaks info to the media :lol This sounds crazy, but if you expect some dumb shit from any FO it's Sacramento.

[Dejounte]

Any way to do this trade without Barnes?

[spurraider21]

Any way to do this trade without Barnes?
plenty.

there are many ways to skin this cat... but something has to give.

people dont want to give up castle/vassell/sochan. people dont want to give up hawks picks. cant have it all.

[SupremeGuy]

Then he should fill out a bit and develop a post-game, if we are honest.Can his body frame even "beef" up? Develop a post game? For fucking sakes yes.

[Davidicus]

2. We can just wait until he is a free agent and sign him for free.

This is certainly subject to debate, but I think the odds are very low that Fox isn't traded somewhere and extended by the start of next season. Yes, his team is saying they'll only extend with San Antonio now, but they are trying to get to their preferred destination. At the end of the day, Fox isn't going to make All NBA this year so a SuperMax is out of the question. But a Max Extension with Bird Raises is 5/296 compared to a FA Max deal of 4/219. I seriously doubt Fox is going to hit free agency and leave $77 million on the table. This summer, if the Spurs don't pull the trigger, he'll become open to the idea of an extension with another team.

I didn’t know the Bird details here. If this is the case why wouldn’t any semi-competitive team put their best offer forward for Fox? That’s a lot of money they know Fox most likely wouldn’t turn down. Makes me feel a lot less sure that another team won’t whip their dick out to trade for him.

[Splits]

Bruhs, you're underestimating the BWrong factor here. What semi-successful trade has he ever executed? This is not happening, Fox will never be a Spur

[Davidicus]

Worth mentioning that Kings insider James Ham just mentioned on SAC local radio that Fox has made it clear he would not sign an extension in Houston and doesn't want to go there.


I doubt HOU would seriously entertain a Fox trade right now anyway but that's one of the only teams who could seriously rival an SAS trade package likely off the board.

I heard him say “there are strong undercurrents in Sacramento that he wouldn’t extend with Houston.” Whatever that means.

[CGD]

vecenie seems convinced that Fox is a perfect fit with Wemby. however, he raises the same concerns some have brought up here about how his game will age over the course of 5+ years. ultimately says he'd make the move if he were the spurs, no doubt. co-host raises the point of if the spurs wait, who are they waiting for? unless the spurs think they are getting a legit mvp candidate type player such is shai, the gap between fox and another hypothetical player is pretty miniscule


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbmpfTc9RRQ

his idea of the trade:

https://i.gyazo.com/b21dbd15236ab43f6639f0843b580981.png

This seems fair, but Id want top 1 protections on those 2025 picks. That or wait until the summer when the draft order is known.

[DAF86]

Now you're just being a retard.

Just now? he's one of the lowest IQ poster in here and a gigantic homer to boost. :lol

[MannyIsGod]

Bruhs, you're underestimating the BWrong factor here. What semi-successful trade has he ever executed? This is not happening, Fox will never be a Spur


Is this serious? Wright has made a lot of good trades. Dejonte trade, the Thad trade. Poertle trade. I get why y'all don't like his drafting but his trades?

[rascal]

This seems fair, but Id want top 1 protections on those 2025 picks. That or wait until the summer when the draft order is known.

Those picks may lose value after the lottery then the Kings will pull out of any deal.

[spurraider21]

Is this serious? Wright has made a lot of good trades. Dejonte trade, the Thad trade. Poertle trade. I get why y'all don't like his drafting but his trades?
the premise is that wright has done well at extracting value/picks when breaking down the roster, but has no track record of building up the roster

[Raven]

Anybody but Castle and Wemby and I'm good with it tbh.

i just don't understand how a trade to get fox may make sense without getting rid of castle, like it's complete nonsense

[poopbox]

Realistically, the Spurs are gonna cave because they feel pressured to make a move.

I hope they prove me wrong.

Anything more than Keldon(and or Devin), Sochan, and FRP is too much.

They should feel pressure to make a move. They have a generational talent who is so good it just flat out demands you start fielding a good team around him sooner rather than later. Time for the front office to stop being the pussies getting fucked and to start being the dicks that do the fucking tbh

[DAF86]

yqSzI1-9vYQ?si=sayhqQh4Oaab5WFW

[Splits]

Is this serious? Wright has made a lot of good trades. Dejonte trade, the Thad trade. Poertle trade. I get why y'all don't like his drafting but his trades?

for picks, for picks, and for picks. He's never landed an impact player

also lol throwing the Thad trade in there, which basically ended up with Branham

[rascal]

Realistically, the Spurs are gonna cave because they feel pressured to make a move.

I hope they prove me wrong.

Anything more than Keldon(and or Devin), Sochan, and FRP is too much.

Spurs have no problem walking away from a trade. Really they prefer to walk away and play it conservatively with no trade.

[baseline bum]

This seems fair, but Id want top 1 protections on those 2025 picks. That or wait until the summer when the draft order is known.

Problem is after those picks haven't advanced into the top 4 you're going to need to trade more of them. If you project the Hawks to finish 8th worst in the league after losing Jalen Johnson a lot of the value of that pick in trading for Fox is the 26% chance it jumps into the top 4.

[poopbox]

Is this serious? Wright has made a lot of good trades. Dejonte trade, the Thad trade. Poertle trade. I get why y'all don't like his drafting but his trades?

While these trades netted some seemingly good assets...none of them were good. Wright didn't have to do anything in these deals other than be willing to be bad, and be lucky. He just happened to have the player that the Hawks wanted and could fleece them much the same way Presti had the player the clippers wanted and fleeced them. That has nothing to do with skill. All his other moves only required that he be willing to get rid of a player and replace them with nothing, because the spurs didn't care about winning games. And half of what he got were picks that current GM's don't care about. None of those GM's care about giving Wright a pick 5 years from now cause with the exception of maybe Brad they won't be their 5 years from now.

Even this thing that is seemingly difficult, trading for Fox, isn't...because it's been put out there that he legit want's to be here. Wright has all the leverage. The player wants to be in San Antonio. The player does not want to be on his original team and has repeatedly told them he won't resign. The agent has publicly requested the player be traded. We have tons of picks and young players if the Kings want them. If they don't, we have the picks to just go get whatever veteran players the Kings want. We will have plenty of money to give Fox a max with plenty left over. We are the boogey man hiding under every other teams bed. Some teams are just straight up not going to offer anything because what's the point it's heavily implied he wants to be in San Antonio, want's to play with Victor, and they have the money and draft capital to make it happen.

It would actually be pretty preposterous for Wright to fuck this up tbh.

[baseline bum]

vecenie seems convinced that Fox is a perfect fit with Wemby. however, he raises the same concerns some have brought up here about how his game will age over the course of 5+ years. ultimately says he'd make the move if he were the spurs, no doubt. co-host raises the point of if the spurs wait, who are they waiting for? unless the spurs think they are getting a legit mvp candidate type player such is shai, the gap between fox and another hypothetical player is pretty miniscule


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbmpfTc9RRQ

his idea of the trade:

https://i.gyazo.com/b21dbd15236ab43f6639f0843b580981.png

Would hate losing Unc, would cheer losing Bran Ham.

[z0sa]

Wright better make this happen in a way that doesn't totally fuck us. We have all the leverage. We have Wemby. Dude wants to be here.

Get it done, dude.

[LeBowen]

We can't really afford to lose Barnes if we're to get Fox now and not in the summer.
I'd say that even if we get Fox and want to compete for play-in this season we need to upgrade Keldon into an actually useful wing.
Losing Barnes for Fontecchio makes no sense whatsoever, like why are all these podcasters and media people so adamant to include 3rd team in any trade?
Kings don't even receive anything from the Pistons in that one.

[spurraider21]

We can't really afford to lose Barnes if we're to get Fox now and not in the summer.
I'd say that even if we get Fox and want to compete for play-in this season we need to upgrade Keldon into an actually useful wing.
Losing Barnes for Fontecchio makes no sense whatsoever, like why are all these podcasters and media people so adamant to include 3rd team in any trade?
Kings don't even receive anything from the Pistons in that one.
think the idea is the kings dont want to take on payroll for next year. and barnes being an expiring over the summer would be more palatable than, say, keldon

we dont have any current expirings to give sacto other than tre jones and some minimum players

[LeBowen]

think the idea is the kings dont want to take on payroll for next year. and barnes being an expiring over the summer would be more palatable than, say, keldon

we dont have any current expirings to give sacto other than tre jones and some minimum players

I get the idea, but it doesn't make sense for the Kings.
They need help if they're to compete. That's why we're including Devin and not Keldon or Collins.
And they'd have about $30M cap space in this scenario with only 8 players on the roster. Good luck filling the rotation out with useful players.

[RC_Drunkford]

We can't really afford to lose Barnes if we're to get Fox now and not in the summer.
I'd say that even if we get Fox and want to compete for play-in this season we need to upgrade Keldon into an actually useful wing.
Losing Barnes for Fontecchio makes no sense whatsoever, like why are all these podcasters and media people so adamant to include 3rd team in any trade?
Kings don't even receive anything from the Pistons in that one.

it would create a huge trade exception for the Kings, that's why. Agree though, makes little sense to ship Barnes to Detroit in that deal when you can get it done without that part.

[TD 21]

I don't know if it's been mentioned and it'll be buried in short order, but I don't think this is all that complicated: Castle will be the likely sticking point.

I fully expect the overly conservative Spurs to balk and hope this drags into the off season and they can eventually wear them down.

Vassell seems to have become the whipping boy around here, but his shooting/spacing would be even more important with Fox.

[100%duncan]

The back and forth worth of 10+ pages was fun to read. :lol There are the usual suspects of course of not wanting to trade a substantial amount of assets for a top 20-30 to the point that they would even argue that Fox is not a top 30 player, I bet. Just want to add more thoughts on top of scott 's list earlier in the thread.

1. I want to start by talking about MVP level players say about top 1-8 players in the world here to appease the "he's not good enough" crowd. No MVP level superstar is going to come out and just ask for a trade. The last superstar to do that was Kawhi. Before that, who? I seriously can't remember one, except maybe for Kobe pre-Pau. Additionally, numerous people here have already, ad nauseam, discussed why the likes of Luka and Ant will not be available realistically. And even then, a lot of our warchest of picks would have already materialized by then.

2. Going off the first premise, now you go for the potential #2 guys on a contender. A lot of people didnt want Trae last summer with concerns about his health and defense. I didn't and still don't agree with this but ok. People didn't want Lauri because of concerns with health and doubt towards his would be actual production in a team that wants to more than bottom feeder. Ok, not fair but OK. And now, we are presented with a legit NBA All-Star that's game was forced to be a #1 option or a 1a-1b with Sabonis in this modern NBA, a player who has produced the stats to be a top20-30 player while passing the eye tests, and yet ST still aren't sold on that? That's just preposterous. Some of you will never be satisfied with the potential and idea of a non-spur (outside of Jokic and Giannis, and even then you fuckers will still find something to bitch about) while still being head over heels over the likes of Vassell (who is good but not great), Keldon, and busts like Wesley, Branham, etc.

3. The Castle-potential and/or Flagg lottery ticket vs the surefire Fox level player. I love Castle as much as the next guy, hell I feel like he's smarter than Wemby was last year tbh. But if he's the hold-up in all this, then bye bye Steph for me. I'm, and I assume most of logical people here, would rather let go of the Flagg ticket/s than Steph. The latter I believe is also the more realistic scenario, given reports of Kings still wanting to "contend". In that case, the obvious centerpiece for the trade is Devin. You do as much as you can to keep Steph of course, spacing and "fit-wise" can be solved later when we see how they actually mesh. We can't really afford to prioritize "fit" and should just keep the best talent available as a young team who has yet to sniff the playoffs.



I'd give it to everyone here though, ST is becoming fun again.

[scott]

I didn’t know the Bird details here. If this is the case why wouldn’t any semi-competitive team put their best offer forward for Fox? That’s a lot of money they know Fox most likely wouldn’t turn down. Makes me feel a lot less sure that another team won’t whip their dick out to trade for him.

Right now it's because Fox is saying he won't sign with anyone but San Antonio. Come summertime, I think that changes. It's a 31-party game of chicken right now (Fox plus 30 teams).

[Obstructed_View]

Shit man I was thinking about Wemby. I don't think he's happy losing this much.

Yeah, good point. Vic is going to be a really great teammate and citizen right up to the point his management demands a trade.

[gilmor]

I have no problems parting with Vassel and Johnson in getting Fox. Barnes, Sochan and Castle def no

[scott]

The latest Simmons podcast is his annual Trade Value Rankings. He has Vassell in the 60s and Castle in the low 50s. I haven't listened to the rest yet (turned it off to tune into the Spurs game), but I agree that Castle is a more valuable chip that Vassell and we should be valuing them that way as well.

FWIW, he had Sochan as a guy who just missed the cut in his Top 85.

[spurraider21]

it would create a huge trade exception for the Kings, that's why. Agree though, makes little sense to ship Barnes to Detroit in that deal when you can get it done without that part.
well... if the spurs are taking on fox's contract, they need to send out matching salary. we dont have 30+ mil worth of expiring deals. if the premise is the sacto doesnt want to take anything on, then you have to route the money to a team with cap space. like detroit. whether its barnes or keldon or zollins... spurs need to send out matching salary

[SpursGenius]

Hawks already have 22 wins.
They'll reach at least 30 no matter what.
There are 6 teams that won't reach 30 wins, probably 7.

8th best odds are as high as Hawks pick will go.
You're telling me you wouldn't trade that pick for a 6% Flagg lottery ticket?
26% to get a top4 pick. If it's not top4, then it's 8th or lower.

I'm not going down this road again, I was sick of you people in Markkanen topic.
We got lucky three years in a row, anyone who thinks 26% odds are better to keep than a proven all-star player sucks at math.

I would rather trade all 3 Hawks picks than Castle.
you are one stupid mf

[LeBowen]

you are one stupid mf

You're a retard who can't comprehend basic math.

[SpursGenius]

Devin and, at max, after being pulled, kicking and screaming, 2 picks. It should be Devin and a single mid-to-late first-round pick.


DeAaron Fox is not some franchise-level player. He's on the level of a Demar.
more like Keldon Collins and two low seconds

[intlspurshk]

As long as SPURS keep all 2025 FRP and Castle, then all other package is ok. King can get DV or Bull, Hornet, Wolve FRP.

[SpursGenius]

You're a retard who can't comprehend basic math.
its not about math you imbecile its about asset value and what Fox is worth. Spurs can get Fox for free in one year.

[LeBowen]

its not about math you imbecile its about asset value and what Fox is worth. Spurs can get Fox for free in one year.

Fucking retard do you really think Fox is going to wait a full year and a half, refuse to go anywhere else and then leave 50 million on the table just so he can join the Spurs?
Look at how Mitchell and Lillard situations played out.

[SpursGenius]

As long as SPURS keep all 2025 FRP and Castle, then all other package is ok. King can get DV or Bull, Hornet, Wolve FRP.
no not wolve frp. And no DV. Wemby, Castle, or Sochan. Keldon and any other garbage on team is ok to part with. We have 4 assets on the team. rest are fillers. charlotte pick will be second next year. Bulls also.

[SpursGenius]

Fucking retard do you really think Fox is going to wait a full year and a half, refuse to go anywhere else and then leave 50 million on the table just so he can join the Spurs?
Look at how Mitchell and Lillard situations played out.
yes dumbfuck if he really wants to Play with Wemby. Its not 50 million extra as he gets one extra year with bird rights. The per year contract is what matters. Also terdbucket, He isnt that good if he walks he walks.

[Davidicus]

We can go on and on about if we trade Castle or not, but I don’t see why SAC would want him. They have 26yo Monk locked up for 4 years and rookie Carter who looks good. Sure you could fit Castle in there but that’s diminishing returns vs someone like Vassell / HB / KJ.

[LeBowen]

yes dumbfuck if he really wants to Play with Wemby. Its not 50 million extra as he gets one extra year with bird rights. The per year contract is what matters. Also terdbucket, He isnt that good if he walks he walks.

You just made this post:

no not wolve frp. And no DV. Wemby, Castle, or Sochan. Keldon and any other garbage on team is ok to part with. We have 4 assets on the team. rest are fillers. charlotte pick will be second next year. Bulls also.

You're someone who's completely lost and not worth engaging, stop embarrassing yourself.
Watch the game and leave serious trade talk to adults.

It's 50 extra million guaranteed, who knows what happens in 5 years, better players fell off, got injured or whatever, never got the money later on.

[CGD]

Problem is after those picks haven't advanced into the top 4 you're going to need to trade more of them. If you project the Hawks to finish 8th worst in the league after losing Jalen Johnson a lot of the value of that pick in trading for Fox is the 26% chance it jumps into the top 4.

It’s a smart point. I’m sure the Spurs will also have some level of heartburn over passing on a 26% chance at Flagg/Harper. Interesting how the unrelated Jalen Johnson injury could dictate where we go from here.

[SpursGenius]

It’s a smart point. I’m sure the Spurs will also have some level of heartburn over passing on a 26% chance at Flagg/Harper. Interesting how the unrelated Jalen Johnson injury could dictate where we go from here.
remember Baily, Edgecomb and UT Tre. Include those 3 in percentages all maybe better than Fox by himself. Percentage climbs to what 50

[SpursBills]

Hypothetical question:

If Fox does not want a max extension and instead wants to extend to a 2+1 player option instead to try and take advantage of his 10 year vet status, can whichever team trades for him offer more per year on that 2+1 compared to a 2+1 he'd get as a UFA if he played out his contract?

[SpursGenius]

Whats crazy is if you look at standings with Atlanta Jalen injury they can easily fall to pick 9. We tank to pick 8 not far from it now. Bulls pick as of now conveys to us at 11. We could have 8,9, and 11 at a minimum. What are the percentages then for a top 3 pick ? or more than one top 3 pick ?

[intlspurshk]

I wish your proposal could happen but I doubt King will accept SPURS garbage.

[CGD]

I wish your proposal could happen but I doubt King will accept SPURS garbage.

The Spurs will send over quality picks, but I'd just prefer to revisit once the order is established. Even is the picks end up being 9 and 10 this draft, i think the only team that can overwhelm us is Houston (maybe the Nets but sounds the want to hold powder for Gannis). Houston is the real risk.

[DPG21920]

Whats crazy is if you look at standings with Atlanta Jalen injury they can easily fall to pick 9. We tank to pick 8 not far from it now. Bulls pick as of now conveys to us at 11. We could have 8,9, and 11 at a minimum. What are the percentages then for a top 3 pick ? or more than one top 3 pick ?

Would be about a 30% shot at a top 3 pick in that scenario

[LeBowen]

Anyone still agaisnt giving up Devin or Jeremy?

[Dejounte]

So when is that trade

[100%duncan]

Anyone still agaisnt giving up Devin or Jeremy?

The Kings :lol

[scott]

So when is that trade

The good news is that SAC got beat by PHI tonight and maybe they'll start to feel desperate. Kings subreddit is ready to move on from Fox, maybe their FO is too

The bad news is that I think there is a strong chance we are 8 games under .500 at the deadline, at which point it probably makes sense just to wait until the offseason. It would be nice to get some time for Fox to build chemistry with Wemby, but it would be also be nice to see how the ping pong balls bounce before we make a move.

[Pauleta14]

Wemby and Castle (wtf is wrong with some of u ok to put him in a Fox package?!?) are untouchable

Give up all the rest I don't care.

[100%duncan]

The good news is that SAC got beat by PHI tonight and maybe they'll start to feel desperate. Kings subreddit is ready to move on from Fox, maybe their FO is too

The bad news is that I think there is a strong chance we are 8 games under .500 at the deadline, at which point it probably makes sense just to wait until the offseason. It would be nice to get some time for Fox to build chemistry with Wemby, but it would be also be nice to see how the ping pong balls bounce before we make a move.

Why is it better to wait for the offseason? Just for less assets to give up? Honest question not sure if Im missing something.

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBnf2NXpzZs

[stnick2261]

The good news is that SAC got beat by PHI tonight and maybe they'll start to feel desperate. Kings subreddit is ready to move on from Fox, maybe their FO is too

The bad news is that I think there is a strong chance we are 8 games under .500 at the deadline, at which point it probably makes sense just to wait until the offseason. It would be nice to get some time for Fox to build chemistry with Wemby, but it would be also be nice to see how the ping pong balls bounce before we make a move.

This is why I would want Fox now and do whatever surgeries might be needed. He can spend half the year hanging out and becoming friends with his new teammates and be healthy and fresh by next season. If we wait for summer to make a trade and then realize he needs surgeries, that pushes our competitiveness back further. This scenario is also why I would want to protect any picks for this summer.

[Pauleta14]

Why is it better to wait for the offseason? Just for less assets to give up? Honest question not sure if Im missing something.

We're closer to a lottery pick than the POs and with JJ's injury ATL's 25 suddenly have a lot more value, maybe it's worth waiting, we could get a top4 and get an elite guard

Also less time on Fox's contract = less value

No rush considering there's so much more than just the PG position to fix

[100%duncan]

We're closer to a lottery pick than the POs and with JJ's injury ATL's 25 suddenly have a lot more value, maybe it's worth waiting, we could get a top4 and get an elite guard

Also less time on Fox's contract = less value

No rush considering there's so much more than just the PG position to fix

It has already been explained here that the 9-12 odds are pretty close to each other. Im really not interested in doing that. I'd rather they gun for Fox and the play-ins.

[scott]

Why is it better to wait for the offseason? Just for less assets to give up? Honest question not sure if Im missing something.

The main benefit, in my opinion, would just be to see where our picks land. If you get lucky and end up with a top 4 pick, that may change your approach completely. What if we landed #1 and #3? Maybe you could just trade #3 + Keldon and Collins to match salaries without giving up anything actually useful. It might be too far gone to make the playoffs this year anyway.

It's hard to say if we'd have more or less leverage in the offseason. If Fox sticks by his "only San Antonio" guns it could help us. If he loosens that up, it could hurt us and make him more expensive.

[100%duncan]

The main benefit, in my opinion, would just be to see where our picks land. If you get lucky and end up with a top 4 pick, that may change your approach completely. What if we landed #1 and #3? Maybe you could just trade #3 + Keldon and Collins to match salaries without giving up anything actually useful. It might be too far gone to make the playoffs this year anyway.

It's hard to say if we'd have more or less leverage in the offseason. If Fox sticks by his "only San Antonio" guns it could help us. If he loosens that up, it could hurt us and make him more expensive.

Yah, your first paragraph here is kind of an obvious point. My worry is the 2nd paragraph, I don't really believe that he/klutch will stick to it and then we lose leverage and then we lose out.

[rascal]

remember Baily, Edgecomb and UT Tre. Include those 3 in percentages all maybe better than Fox by himself. Percentage climbs to what 50

Yes

All these five players could end up as good or not better than Fox and if the Spurs and Atlanta continue to lose I would take the odds to get into the top four and if they don't then next summer go hard after Fox.

The Spurs may have three teams in the lottery with some luck with the Chicago pick too.

Spurs are not going anywhere this year anyways.

[scott]

Yah, your first paragraph here is kind of an obvious point. My worry is the 2nd paragraph, I don't really believe that he/klutch will stick to it and then we lose leverage and then we lose out.

Honestly this is part of the problem with the Spurs being in no-mans land. It makes decisions like these so much harder/far less obvious. If we were at .500 and in the 9th seed, then it's easier to pull that trigger. If we were a bottom dweller with top lottery odds, it would be easy to say no. Instead we're in that middle space with a superstar too good to let us be worse, but a roster too bad to let us be better. Trading for Fox makes us better, but so does having a Top 4 pick, and if we ended up with somewhere around a 40% chance to get one via the Hawks and Spurs pick... that's tough to forgo.

I'd personally try to make the move for Fox that somehow allows us to keep the better of ATL/SA at a minimum, but I'm not sure that pathway exists before the deadline. But I may also be overestimated the Kangz FO.

[MannyIsGod]

If Fox really wants to be here then he can just say he won't sign with anyone else and our leverage goes way up. If that's not happen now, then I doubt its ever going to. Maybe no one offers enough and SAC doesn't move him but I don't think he's going to say SAT and nothing else.

[scott]

It's also really easy to type out that the draft has guys who all might end up better than Fox (a top 25-30 player in the league), but in reality there is probably only 1, 2 or maybe 3 if things really pan out. Better hope you get the right one.

[scott]

If Fox really wants to be here then he can just say he won't sign with anyone else and our leverage goes way up. If that's not happen now, then I doubt its ever going to. Maybe no one offers enough and SAC doesn't move him but I don't think he's going to say SAT and nothing else.

I agree. That may be what Rich Paul is saying now, but when it comes down to it there is $77MM of guaranteed money on the line by bluffing and saying you won't extend anywhere else if SAC calls the bluff and lets him make it to UFA. Fox and Klutch aren't morons.

[rascal]

Honestly this is part of the problem with the Spurs being in no-mans land. It makes decisions like these so much harder/far less obvious. If we were at .500 and in the 9th seed, then it's easier to pull that trigger. If we were a bottom dweller with top lottery odds, it would be easy to say no. Instead we're in that middle space with a superstar too good to let us be worse, but a roster too bad to let us be better. Trading for Fox makes us better, but so does having a Top 4 pick, and if we ended up with somewhere around a 40% chance to get one via the Hawks and Spurs pick... that's tough to forgo.

I'd personally try to make the move for Fox that somehow allows us to keep the better of ATL/SA at a minimum, but I'm not sure that pathway exists before the deadline. But I may also be overestimated the Kangz FO.

Yes

It's looking like the Spurs will have at least two top ten lottery picks and possibly three lottery picks. I haven't added all the odds but it has to be somewhere around 30% or higher for a top four pick. Those are not too bad of odds and worth gambling with and if they don't get into the top four they may even be able to trade into the top four with a couple of those picks and if not they can target Fox next summer if he's still available which he could be in a trade. Spurs have options to turn this roster around and they don't need to over pay for Fox now. they aren't going anywhere this year anyways. The team isn't deep enough yet.

[rascal]

It's also really easy to type out that the draft has guys who all might end up better than Fox (a top 25-30 player in the league), but in reality there is probably only 1, 2 or maybe 3 if things really pan out. Better hope you get the right one.

That's up to the Spurs fo to figure out. That's what they get paid for. They would have to be pretty bad to miss on this draft with a top four pick.

[Dex]

It's also really easy to type out that the draft has guys who all might end up better than Fox (a top 25-30 player in the league), but in reality there is probably only 1, 2 or maybe 3 if things really pan out. Better hope you get the right one.

I'm with you on this.

The Spurs have to stop counting on a lot of "could be" good players, and take a shot at a known commodity.

I'm not sure Fox is necessarily that guy...but we haven't exactly hit a lot of gold in the first round in recent years.

Vassell...questionable.

Sochan...questionable.

Branham and Wesley and Primo and Samanic...garbage.

At a certain point, youth culture has to become a fully grown team

[MannyIsGod]

Yes

It's looking like the Spurs will have at least two top ten lottery picks and possibly three lottery picks. I haven't added all the odds but it has to be somewhere around 30% or higher for a top four pick. Those are not too bad of odds and worth gambling with and if they don't get into the top four they may even be able to trade into the top four with a couple of those picks and if not they can target Fox next summer if he's still available which he could be in a trade. Spurs have options to turn this roster around and they don't need to over pay for Fox now. they aren't going anywhere this year anyways. The team isn't deep enough yet.

Nope, right now its 25% but can't get much higher because we won't get Chicago's pick if it ends up top 4 so you cant count those odds.

[rascal]

Nope, right now its 25% but can't get much higher because we won't get Chicago's pick if it ends up top 4 so you cant count those odds.

You are right. Chicago will stay outside the top ten. Spurs and Atlanta have to fall a little more to get up to 30% odds.

[scott]

I'm with you on this.

The Spurs have to stop counting on a lot of "could be" good players, and take a shot at a known commodity.

I'm not sure Fox is necessarily that guy...but we haven't exactly hit a lot of gold in the first round in recent years.

Vassell...questionable.

Sochan...questionable.

Branham and Wesley and Primo and Samanic...garbage.

At a certain point, youth culture has to become a fully grown team

100%.

I'm not even sure of what the "let it play out" gang has as a strategy. Are they hoping that Vassell takes a 6th year leap? That Keldon finally discovers "it" at age 26? That we're going to get our next superstar at pick #12? I guess it's all possible, just highly unlikely.

And like we've already seen with the aforementioned Vassell and Johnson, the culture of losing takes a toll and engrains loser habits in them. It's not like there is a magical signal that is going to signal to these guys that it's time to turn it on.

It's a ship without a rudder right now.

[TeKu]

Dunc’d On podcast have a mock Fox trade deadline podcast out where they mock out various teams options/interest for Fox.

End result was Fox to Spurs for CP3, Tre and Keldon pls 3 FRPs, the worst of 25 Spurs/Hawks, Chicago pick and the better of Spurs/Celtics 28, plus Chicagos 2nd rounder this year.

Opinion was split between the 4 hosts (Kevin Pelton as Sacramento) on that being enough or too much.

Good listen. One new thing was Nate Duncan saying the timing from Klutch now being about Spurs having the cap space in the off season to renegotiate and extend Fox to more $$$ than a standard max.

Nice trade terms but not sure about Fox at more than the 30% max.

[baseline bum]

Why is it better to wait for the offseason? Just for less assets to give up? Honest question not sure if Im missing something.

To see if either lottery pick hits top 4.

[Kurik]

I’m ok with trading for Fox if the Spurs can retain 1 of the 25 FRPs (ATL or SA), beyond that I’d rather see what happens at the lottery and proceed from there.

[baseline bum]

The main benefit, in my opinion, would just be to see where our picks land. If you get lucky and end up with a top 4 pick, that may change your approach completely. What if we landed #1 and #3? Maybe you could just trade #3 + Keldon and Collins to match salaries without giving up anything actually useful. It might be too far gone to make the playoffs this year anyway.

It's hard to say if we'd have more or less leverage in the offseason. If Fox sticks by his "only San Antonio" guns it could help us. If he loosens that up, it could hurt us and make him more expensive.

So I take it you have come around on Flagg over Harper?

[baseline bum]

With Atlanta in such a talespin I'm telling the Kings they can't have the ATL 25 if they insist on Castle being in the deal. Gotta take the Spurs 25 instead.

[rascal]

If Spurs or Atlanta can get into the 9th spot the odds jump up to 20.3% for a top 4 pick.

At the 10th spot they have a 13.9% chance at a top 4 pick so there is a good % jump from 10 to 9.

If the Spurs end up 9th and Atlanta 10th odds for a top 4 pick are 34.2% so they would get into the top 4, one out of three drafts, that's not too bad.

I expect Phil will have a good chance to pass both the Spurs and Atlanta to give the Spurs that 34.2% chance at a top 4 pick.

[rascal]

With Atlanta in such a talespin I'm telling the Kings they can't have the ATL 25 if they insist on Castle being in the deal. Gotta take the Spurs 25 instead.

I'm keeping Castle and rolling the dice on the 34% on getting a top 4 pick. I believe in the top 4 this year.

[Kurik]

Would you do the following as the base of a trade? I know Sac would demand a 25 pick but would anyone else actually beat this prior to the deadline?

Vassell + CHI 25 FRP, SAS 26 FRP, ATL 27 FRP, SAC 31 FRP for Fox

Others players and SRPs could be added in but the above is the core.

[baseline bum]

remember Baily, Edgecomb and UT Tre. Include those 3 in percentages all maybe better than Fox by himself. Percentage climbs to what 50

Problem is the Spurs can only be top 4 or 9-14 if say they fall to the ninth worst record. So there's no let's pick up Tre Johnson at 6 or 7 if we miss out on Flagg/Harper/Jak/Bailey in the top 4.

[rascal]

With the Spurs and Atlanta floundering those draft picks are becoming more valuable.

They are like stocks and the stock values are increasing.

[baseline bum]

Would you do the following as the base of a trade? I know Sac would demand a 25 pick but would anyone else actually beat this prior to the deadline?

Vassell + CHI 25 FRP, SAS 26 FRP, ATL 27 FRP, SAC 31 FRP for Fox

Others players and SRPs could be added in but the above is the core.

In a second, especially since the SAC 31 is a swap. That would be highway robbery.

[tbdog]

I ended up listening to dunc on, where they did a mock trade negotiation with Fox. Spurs ended up with the deal, being Tre Jones, CP, Keldon, worse of spurs/Hawks pick for 25. Bulls 1st, best spurs/Celtics 29 picks, bulls 25 second for Heurter and Fox.

[baseline bum]

I'm keeping Castle and rolling the dice on the 34% on getting a top 4 pick. I believe in the top 4 this year.

Gonna suck in the 66% chance those picks end up McNeeley and Saraf or something. Guess we gotta see if Wright can really put the screws to Sacramento. Ideally I'd like them to take Sochan or Main Character 24 so keep both Castle and the ATL pick.

[rascal]

Problem is the Spurs can only be top 4 or 9-14 if say they fall to the ninth worst record. So there's no let's pick up Tre Johnson at 6 or 7 if we miss out on Flagg/Harper/Jak/Bailey in the top 4.

But a possibility can be Chicago can land at 11 and the Spurs can trade 11 and 9 to jump to 6 or 7 and draft Tre Johnson.

There are many roads the Spurs can take depending how the draft positions shake out and I'm liking all the possible outcomes.

[rascal]

Gonna suck in the 66% chance those picks end up McNeeley and Saraf or something. Guess we gotta see if Wright can really put the screws to Sacramento. Ideally I'd like them to take Sochan or Main Character 24 so keep both Castle and the ATL pick.

Sometimes you have to roll the dice. It worked to land Wemby with longer odds. Still the Spurs may have three top 12 draft picks so a possibility to combine a couple to jump up.

[Jordan Jackson]

Fox confirmed to a SacBee reporter tonight the Spurs is where he wants to sign. Rich Paul is clearing a path for Brian Wright. If Wright can’t take advantage of this at some point whether now or offseason - then he probably shouldn’t have the job.

[scott]

So I take it you have come around on Flagg over Harper?

Yeah, Cooper has definitely pulled away in that race

[scott]

I ended up listening to dunc on, where they did a mock trade negotiation with Fox. Spurs ended up with the deal, being Tre Jones, CP, Keldon, worse of spurs/Hawks pick for 25. Bulls 1st, best spurs/Celtics 29 picks, bulls 25 second for Heurter and Fox.

Call it in before they change their mind :lol

I do that one in a heartbeat

[ismael-robert]

This bum a spur yet

[MannyIsGod]

With Atlanta in such a talespin I'm telling the Kings they can't have the ATL 25 if they insist on Castle being in the deal. Gotta take the Spurs 25 instead.

What you would need to do is have them take the worst of the two not a specific pick because no matter what the Spurs pick will have potential to be worse due to the lottery.

[MannyIsGod]

Fox confirmed to a SacBee reporter tonight the Spurs is where he wants to sign. Rich Paul is clearing a path for Brian Wright. If Wright can’t take advantage of this at some point whether now or offseason - then he probably shouldn’t have the job.

We keep saying Wright has to do this but we all know he's not some unilateral decision making force in this front office.

[DPG21920]

Call it in before they change their mind :lol

I do that one in a heartbeat

That’s honestly what I think a deal SHOULD look like more or less given circumstances lol

[scott]

Just saw a clip from NBA Countdown where Shams said the Kings have received “dozens of calls and trade offers” in the last 30 hours, and the Spurs are among the teams who have expressed interest.

[MannyIsGod]

There's a lot of smoke man. This might actually get done.

[scott]

That’s honestly what I think a deal SHOULD look like more or less given circumstances lol

I think you add tearing up the SAC31 swap, and it’s about right along with what my model predicts. 3 FRPs + a swap + an SRP and IIRC my model said 3 FRP + 1 swap + 1 protected pick (not at the computer now to double check it).

Idk why they want Keldon and Tre, but they can most certainly have them.

[scott]

There's a lot of smoke man. This might actually get done.

For now, we just need Rich Paul to stick to his line that only SAS gets the extension

[Jordan Jackson]

The Kings quit tonight during that 76ers game. Spurs kind of did too mid 4Q. Trade rumours gonna have both these teams in a death spiral.

[baseline bum]

What you would need to do is have them take the worst of the two not a specific pick because no matter what the Spurs pick will have potential to be worse due to the lottery.

Ideally, but they're not just going to give us Fox for crap.

[objective]

That Dunc'd On fake trade is actually really good. Not even the best pick from this year ... No Castle, No Vassell ....

If that's a realistic proposal it should be an easy yes from San Antonio

[scott]

I really want Fox, and I really want Fox paired with Castle.

With that said, with the tailspin both SA and ATL are in… there is no way we should be willing to do a deal that involves both of those picks. Ideally, we send later year picks. After that, if we can get send the worst of, then that’s okay. After that, maybe it’s just one of the picks with a top 1 protection. Worst case, you agree to just sent one (I’d try to make it ours so we can at least control our own destiny).

Though I’m a proponent of this move, I’m not extremely optimistic that it happens. The vultures are circling. The threats of only signing an extension with San Antonio may not be enough to deter teams from making an offer (doesn’t sound like it so far).

[itzsoweezee]

One new thing was Nate Duncan saying the timing from Klutch now being about Spurs having the cap space in the off season to renegotiate and extend Fox to more $$$ than a standard max.


Wait, what? Is that referring to a bump in next year’s salary, or something else? Is that what Utah did with Lauri in the last offseason?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

One thing is for certain...we are all going to spend an inordinate amount of time here constantly refreshing this thread for the next week :lol

True. Also, if this trade happens ST will say it’s an overpay and they shouldn’t have paid as much. If it doesn’t ST will say they should have made it happen no matter what.

[mudyez]

I ended up listening to dunc on, where they did a mock trade negotiation with Fox. Spurs ended up with the deal, being Tre Jones, CP, Keldon, worse of spurs/Hawks pick for 25. Bulls 1st, best spurs/Celtics 29 picks, bulls 25 second for Heurter and Fox.

LOL, I really had to look up who "CP" is.

But yeah...if that would be the deal(which I don't believe), we should Pull the triggern. I personally even like Huerter.

[TrainOfThought5]

Would you do the following as the base of a trade? I know Sac would demand a 25 pick but would anyone else actually beat this prior to the deadline?

Vassell + CHI 25 FRP, SAS 26 FRP, ATL 27 FRP, SAC 31 FRP for Fox

Others players and SRPs could be added in but the above is the core.

We need more shooters not less so I’m against trading Vassell, who should be a perfect third banana. Any 2 of four combo of Tre/keldon/Sochan/Collins and 2 lowest FRP’s assuming we get chi this year should get it done. Mind you we need to consolidate players/picks anyway.

[RC_Drunkford]

Just listening to the Spurs Insider podcast. They are saying it would be difficult to trade Keldon because he wears cowboy hats and has a ranch. It just wouldn't be fair to trade such a culture guy :lol

[Em-City]

We need more shooters not less so I’m against trading Vassell, who should be a perfect third banana. Any 2 of four combo of Tre/keldon/Sochan/Collins and 2 lowest FRP’s assuming we get chi this year should get it done. Mind you we need to consolidate players/picks anyway.

If they can take all 4 - why not?

[Maddog]

Just listening to the Spurs Insider podcast. They are saying it would be difficult to trade Keldon because he wears cowboy hats and has a ranch. It just wouldn't be fair to trade such a culture guy :lol

George Hill has a ranch
There's precedent for beloved Spurs players being part of a franchise altering trade and owning a ranch

[Dejounte]

100%.

I'm not even sure of what the "let it play out" gang has as a strategy. Are they hoping that Vassell takes a 6th year leap? That Keldon finally discovers "it" at age 26? That we're going to get our next superstar at pick #12? I guess it's all possible, just highly unlikely.

And like we've already seen with the aforementioned Vassell and Johnson, the culture of losing takes a toll and engrains loser habits in them. It's not like there is a magical signal that is going to signal to these guys that it's time to turn it on.

It's a ship without a rudder right now.


This.

there’s nothing reasonable about the idiot who calls everybody else unreasonable. Body is such a fucking clown with zero self awareness.

[Davidicus]

Dream scenario

Fox + Huerter + Len for
Barnes + Collins + Jones + Branham, worst of SA/ATL 25, CHI 25, ATL 27, SAC 31 swap; CHA 25 / SRPs to seal the deal.

Wright does a great job tightening the screws with a massive assist from Fox. Kangz convince themselves that HB is a great win-now player (he is), Collins is the backup big they never had, and Tre is an intriguing speedy backup PG for injury insurance & expiring if it doesn’t work out. And Branham is a low-cost shooter if Dougie leaves…

We essentially send all of our kitchen scraps out. No more Collins + Branham, and we can use Huerter and Lee.

Again, a dream scenario, but I am putting it into the universe.

[Mr. Body]

This.

there’s nothing reasonable about the idiot who calls everybody else unreasonable. Body is such a fucking clown with zero self awareness.

Lol, I haven't even said anything in this dumb thread for like twenty pages and nothing about that topic.

You just get mad when I point out that people use the Spurs to get their extensions and none of these trades ever happen.

This gets you really really mad. I don't even say anything that's wrong, you just get steamed.

[Mr. Body]

And it's group think steamed. Everyone is to busy trying to fit in with each other with the group think they never realize they keep doing the same shit over and over. Last summer was the exact same thing with Markkanen.

[LeBowen]

And it's group think steamed. Everyone is to busy trying to fit in with each other with the group think they never realize they keep doing the same shit over and over. Last summer was the exact same thing with Markkanen.

And guess what would've been a better outcome?
Golden 6% tickets and our assoritment of low IQ scrubs or a proven all-star level player?
A 39 year old is our second best player, but it's fine as long as Zach is having an objectively good season.