De'Aaron Fox Rumors Suggest a Possible Trade to The Spurs

[scott]

Realistically, they're not going to trade Fox unless it's for a good, young player + multiple picks imo. It would have to include Vassell. They need perimeter shooting so they likely have no interest in Sochan.

Devin + 3 FRP's is likely the bare minimum to make this trade happen tbh.

You son of a bitch, I'm in

[LkrFan]

Our cap sheet is perfectly aligned for a Max FA in the summer of 2026... which just perfectly coincides with when Fox's new deal would kick in.

If PATFO can make this happen I will reconvert to Snifferism.

Dammit to hell. Okay, buyout CP0 then so he can sign with the Lakers. :tu

[baseline bum]

From LeBowen's lead:

https://i.ibb.co/jZ3V6swk/fox.jpg

[LeBowen]

You son of a bitch, I'm in

Didn't you tell me that Fox dream is dead ust yesterday? :lol

Getting rid of Devin in the process would be a bonus.

[Spurs Brazil]

Realistically, they're not going to trade Fox unless it's for a good, young player + multiple picks imo. It would have to include Vassell. They need perimeter shooting so they likely have no interest in Sochan.

Devin + 3 FRP's is likely the bare minimum to make this trade happen tbh.

I don't know if they will want the Vassell contract. I think the Kings will want Castle in any trade, or more picks if Castle isn't in

[BatManu20]

HAMS-Bomb.

1884352631524544517

[baseline bum]

Spurs gotta get an agreement for an extension if they make the trade, because Fox ain't gonna be cheap.

[BatManu20]

Make it happen PATFO.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GiaRWa5XIAAZLAu?format=jpg&name=large

[LkrFan]

Spurs gotta get an agreement for an extension if they make the trade, because Fox ain't gonna be cheap.

Didn't PATFO refuse Nephew's demands? IJS

[BatManu20]

1884352469754364296

[Spurminator]

I have to believe if SA is his "preferred landing spot" then an extension agreement goes without saying.

I'm ready for it, let's do this. Still need a backup C though.

[scott]

Vassell for Fox straight up works. Add SA25 + SA27 + CHI25 + tear up the SAC31 swap.

Then trade Tre + multiple SRPs for big Daddy. See if we can trade Keldon for any half decent PF.

Lineup this year:

CP3/Castle
Fox/Castle
Barnes/Champ
Sochan/Keldon
Wemby/Daddy

You run a 3-man guard rotation with CP3/Fox/Castle. Two of them on the court at all times, use Blake to pick up an extra 5-8 min/night if needed.

If you can't get off Keldon you find a way to make it work with him as the undersized backup 4. Adding Big Daddy Val helps in that regard so you still have size inside.

Next season:

Fox/CP3
Castle/tbd
Barnes/Champ
Sochan/tbd
Wemby/Daddy

You still have ATL25 to pickup a SG or PF. Get the other in FA. Maybe you make another move for Coby White to be your 6th man scorer.

[scott]

Didn't you tell me that Fox dream is dead ust yesterday? :lol

Getting rid of Devin in the process would be a bonus.

My faith wavered, but father please forgive me for I have sinned

[mo7888]

Dammit to hell. Okay, buyout CP0 then so he can sign with the Lakers. :tu

You'll need to trade for him... would you prefer to give a pick or player?

[Spurs Brazil]

https://x.com/damienbarling/status/1884351968510087218

[Spurs Brazil]

https://x.com/TheSteinLine/status/1884354847610183860

[scott]

Live shot inside of Brian Wright's office


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaO8L5aSyQo

[djohn2oo8]

Vassell for Fox straight up works. Add SA25 + SA27 + CHI25 + tear up the SAC31 swap.

Then trade Tre + multiple SRPs for big Daddy. See if we can trade Keldon for any half decent PF.

Lineup this year:

CP3/Castle
Fox/Castle
Barnes/Champ
Sochan/Keldon
Wemby/Daddy

You run a 3-man guard rotation with CP3/Fox/Castle. Two of them on the court at all times, use Blake to pick up an extra 5-8 min/night if needed.

If you can't get off Keldon you find a way to make it work with him as the undersized backup 4. Adding Big Daddy Val helps in that regard so you still have size inside.

Next season:

Fox/CP3
Castle/tbd
Barnes/Champ
Sochan/tbd
Wemby/Daddy

You still have ATL25 to pickup a SG or PF. Get the other in FA. Maybe you make another move for Coby White to be your 6th man scorer.
You aren’t keeping Sochan in a trade

[spurraider21]

https://x.com/damienbarling/status/1884351968510087218
if this was the case sacto wouldnt trade him

[baseline bum]

I don't know if they will want the Vassell contract. I think the Kings will want Castle in any trade, or more picks if Castle isn't in

God I'd hate to give up Castle, but gotta wonder the fit next to Fox if they're not gonna trade Sochan. Gotta think Sochan could generate some interest in a three team deal, maybe be a piece to get them Cam Johnson in Sac. Though I'd like to get him here if they're trading for Fox and making a real run at the playoffs.

[spurraider21]

You aren’t keeping Sochan in a trade
oh no. im devastated.

[KingKev]

https://x.com/damienbarling/status/1884351968510087218

An OG poster referenced his bae’s roots to SA recently. Could be some
merit to that.

[scott]

https://x.com/damienbarling/status/1884351968510087218

Need to close my office door so that people don't see me looking at this hardcore pornography

[mo7888]

God I'd hate to give up Castle, but gotta wonder the fit next to Fox if they're not gonna trade Sochan. Gotta think Sochan could generate some interest in a three team deal, maybe be a piece to get them Cam Johnson in Sac. Though I'd like to get him here if they're trading for Fox and making a real run at the playoffs.

Cam makes alot more sense here if we have Fox.

[LeBowen]

You aren’t keeping Sochan in a trade

Kings have no use for Sochan if they're to keep competing.
Can't have Sabonis+Sochan together on the floor unless you've got 3 shooters around them.
But they have Demar.


Next season:

Fox/CP3
Castle/tbd
Barnes/Champ
Sochan/tbd
Wemby/Daddy

That guard rotation seems realistic, but I don't think Sochan would be able to start together with Castle.
Ideally we get Naz or Aldama in free agency.

Fox/CP3
Castle/Champ
Barnes/rookie SF
Naz/Sochan
Wemby/backup

I'm fine with Valanciunas.
Or even John Collins instead of Naz+Valanciunas if we can't get them.

[itzsoweezee]

Hahaha time to fleece the kangz

They have zero leverage

[baseline bum]

What is the Spurs cap situation looking like? We know Fox will want a max. Is RC footing that bill? :downspin:

30% max will be a bargain for him, especially with a cap raising 10% compounded every year thanks to the TV/streaming deal. Though he might just sign a two year 30% max and then re-sign under a higher cap when he's eligible for a 35% max.

[NASpurs]

You aren’t keeping Sochan in a trade

I hope that's true.

[LkrFan]

You'll need to trade for him... would you prefer to give a pick or player?

No look pass :lol

[djohn2oo8]

Hahaha time to fleece the kangz

They have zero leverage
Fox ain’t coming cheap man :lol

[LkrFan]

Hahaha time to fleece the kangz

They have zero leverage

Ruthless :lol

[LeBowen]

I'm gonna pull a cutewizard here. :lol


https://youtu.be/oLSVoHu-4pU?si=ykgutWNDbmlCv6NP


https://youtu.be/xmdqKJcHK6U?si=cRqYvyElJYLj0eaB


https://youtu.be/czWEz7EK9gU

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT, YOU DON'T LIKE NBA BASKETBALL!

[BatManu20]

Both Devin and Stephon's butt-holes just puckered up big time hearing this news tbh. Which gets traded? You know both are secretly hoping it's the other guy. Devin being Wemby's best friend on the team + being older and more of a "win now" player + actually being able to shoot the 3-ball (albeit inconsistently) makes me lean towards it being Castle who gets moved tbh.

Would be sad to see him go, but understandable in this situation. Just hope we keep at least 1 FRP in this upcoming draft if a deal is made.

[LeBowen]

Both Devin and Stephon's butt-holes just puckered up big time hearing this news tbh. Which gets traded? You know both are secretly hoping it's the other guy. Devin being Wemby's best friend on the team + being older and more of a "win now" player + actually being able to shoot the 3-ball (albeit inconsistently) makes me lean towards it being Castle who gets moved tbh.

Would be sad to see him go, but understandable in this situation. Just hope we keep at least 1 FRP in this upcoming draft if a deal is made.

No way Spurs move Castle or one of the two veterans. That's not how they operate.
Again, if Kings are to keep building around Sabonis, they have no use for non-shooters.

From basketball standpoint Devin+Tre makes the most sense.

[scott]

Kings have no use for Sochan if they're to keep competing.
Can't have Sabonis+Sochan together on the floor unless you've got 3 shooters around them.
But they have Demar.



That guard rotation seems realistic, but I don't think Sochan would be able to start together with Castle.
Ideally we get Naz or Aldama in free agency.

Fox/CP3
Castle/Champ
Barnes/rookie SF
Naz/Sochan
Wemby/backup

I'm fine with Valanciunas.
Or even John Collins instead of Naz+Valanciunas if we can't get them.

You are right on Castle/Sochan, I had a brain fart because of all of the blood rushing to my penis over this news

[djohn2oo8]

No way Spurs move Castle or one of the two veterans. That's not how they operate.
Again, if Kings are to keep building around Sabonis, they have no use for non-shooters.

From basketball standpoint Devin+Tre makes the most sense.
It will cost Castle.

[scott]

No way Spurs move Castle or one of the two veterans. That's not how they operate.
Again, if Kings are to keep building around Sabonis, they have no use for non-shooters.

From basketball standpoint Devin+Tre makes the most sense.

Kangz fans on reddit are in shambles. They just want Barnes back at this point :lol

[mo7888]

It will cost Castle.

Carter + Castle doesn't work. I don't think it'll take Castle. Devin is what they'll want.

[LeBowen]

It will cost Castle.

Alright, since you're spewing nonsense with such confidence, I'll bookmark you post.

[baseline bum]

No way Spurs move Castle or one of the two veterans. That's not how they operate.
Again, if Kings are to keep building around Sabonis, they have no use for non-shooters.

From basketball standpoint Devin+Tre makes the most sense.

Hope the franchise of Stauskas sees it that way too.

[djohn2oo8]

Alright, since you're spewing nonsense with such confidence, I'll bookmark you post.
Go for it. You’re kidding yourself if you think the Kings won’t ask and demand Castle included.

[TeKu]

Could well be Devin given the salary req, at which point a Huerter/Zollins swap makes sense for both also?

Just trying to make all scott's dreams come true at once.

[LeBowen]

Go for it. You’re kidding yourself if you think the Kings won’t ask and demand Castle included.

You're just digging yourself deeper.
And I'm one of those people who doesn't forget awful posts.

[Leetonidas]

Go for it. You’re kidding yourself if you think the Kings won’t ask and demand Castle included.

Spurs can just say nah and wait til he's a free agent. If the rumors are true sounds like he wants to play with Victor either way

[Dverde]

https://x.com/esidery/status/1884359086395023512?s=46

[Blizzardwizard]

Well we're finally here. The crossroads PATFO were probably hoping they'd never reach because it forces them to take their collective feet off the desk and actually do their jobs.


Will they do what it takes to get serious about winning with their once-in-a-generation young superstar, or continue being a charity for a bunch of nice 'kids' who :cry try really hard :cry and have a lot of fun together in the locker room?


Fitting this news comes out shortly after Wemby's supporting cast embarrassed him in his home country. If that doesn't spur PATFO into action I don't know what will.

[Spurs Brazil]

https://x.com/sam_amick/status/1884358170958782928

[djohn2oo8]

Spurs can just say nah and wait til he's a free agent. If the rumors are true sounds like he wants to play with Victor either way
They don’t have the luxury of waiting another year. Wemby would be upset. Another team could swipe in and persuade him to an extension.

[LeBowen]

They don’t have the luxury of waiting another year. Wemby would be upset. Another team could swipe in and persuade him to an extension.

Now you're just being a retard.

[koriwhat]

Spurs can just say nah and wait til he's a free agent. If the rumors are true sounds like he wants to play with Victor either way

I'm with you! Castle has earned his spot here and we can ship others out or just wait until FA if Fox is cool with that.

[djohn2oo8]

https://x.com/sam_amick/status/1884358170958782928
Exactly what I mean. Spurs need to make a move now before some other team does.

[djohn2oo8]

Now you're just being a retard.
You’re being naive if you think Fox will hold out just for one team. That’s not how it works and any good agent will find multiple offers.

[LeBowen]

You’re being naive if you think Fox will hold out just for one team. That’s not how it works and any good agent will find multiple offers.

Where did I say he'll hold out for one team? I even listed the most likely destinations.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Brian Wright to the courtesy phone please.

Do your fucking job or go get a new one down at Denny's.

[baseline bum]

Kangz fans on reddit are in shambles. They just want Barnes back at this point :lol

Thought they'd be creaming themselves over getting Amen + Jabari + Sheppard + the PHX firsts + the panties of Hakeem's underage bitches

[vy65]

Both Devin and Stephon's butt-holes just puckered up big time hearing this news tbh. Which gets traded? You know both are secretly hoping it's the other guy. Devin being Wemby's best friend on the team + being older and more of a "win now" player + actually being able to shoot the 3-ball (albeit inconsistently) makes me lean towards it being Castle who gets moved tbh.

Would be sad to see him go, but understandable in this situation. Just hope we keep at least 1 FRP in this upcoming draft if a deal is made.

If I'm SAC, I'm going porque no los dos. I get that Fox has dome leverage with his upcoming FA, but SAC could pull a PHI/Harden and just not play ball. All of which is to say that I don't think DV24 + 3 FRP is going to get it done. If I'm SAC, Castle is exactly the sort of young player I'd want back for a star like Fox.

[djohn2oo8]

If I'm SAC, I'm going porque no los dos. I get that Fox has dome leverage with his upcoming FA, but SAC could pull a PHI/Harden and just not play ball. All of which is to say that I don't think DV24 + 3 FRP is going to get it done. If I'm SAC, Castle is exactly the sort of young player I'd want back for a star like Fox.
Yep

[baseline bum]

Spurs can just say nah and wait til he's a free agent. If the rumors are true sounds like he wants to play with Victor either way

Hopefully he says he'll only sign an extension here so the Spurs ability to sign him in 2026 becomes some killer leverage to allow them to keep Castle.

[Leetonidas]

They don’t have the luxury of waiting another year. Wemby would be upset. Another team could swipe in and persuade him to an extension.

True, but it doesn't sound like he wants to sign an extension at all though


I'm with you! Castle has earned his spot here and we can ship others out or just wait until FA if Fox is cool with that.

I agree but at the same time, i wouldn't keep Castle off the table. Love the kid but in all likelihood he will never be as good as Fox is. if Spurs can get Victor his #2, they should go for it before their chest of assets devalues

[vy65]

No way Spurs move Castle or one of the two veterans. That's not how they operate.

Inshallah habibi, but I don't see it.

[Rosewood]

I read that the Kings played better when Fox went out. I don’t watch SAC, is there any merit to this claim or just horseshit?

[lefty]

:lmao Fox rejected the Lakers

[Leetonidas]

Hopefully he says he'll only sign an extension here so the Spurs ability to sign him in 2026 becomes some killer leverage to allow them to keep Castle.

Nice thought but sounds like Rich Paul already said Fox would be open to moving to any team so we may have competition. Still, not many teams have the assets SA does to make a legit offer besides OKC who has no use for him and Houston but it doesnt sound like they want to make a big splash this season.

[scott]

Idea KOC threw out:

Spurs get Fox

Kings get John Collins, Collin Sexton, 2 FRPs

Jazz get Keldon, Zollins, Huerter, 2 FRPs and 2 SRPs

In this scenario we give up 4 firsts, but we only have to give up garbage

[Dverde]

If Fox comes to SA and we ring, Demar would have caused two teams to ring without him. Legend stuff

[Dejounte]

Idea KOC threw out:

Spurs get Fox

Kings get John Collins, Collin Sexton, 2 FRPs

Jazz get Keldon, Zollins, Huerter, 2 FRPs and 2 SRPs

In this scenario we give up 4 firsts, but we only have to give up garbage

Yes yes yes

[vy65]

I'll fully caveat this by saying this is likely a (severe) overreaction, but some part of me feels like this is the Shai/PG trade, and we're sending out Shai (Castle)

[Kevin]

Dev+Tre, we’ll take back the final year of the Hueter deal (16M), the 27ATL pick, tear up the 31 swap plus the T-Wolves pick and a bundle of second rounders is my best offer.

LaVine and Fox would be tailer made back court mates with Fox the slasher and LaVine the shooter.

[spurraider21]

Idea KOC threw out:

Spurs get Fox

Kings get John Collins, Collin Sexton, 2 FRPs

Jazz get Keldon, Zollins, Huerter, 2 FRPs and 2 SRPs

In this scenario we give up 4 firsts, but we only have to give up garbage
highway robbery. i dont see it happening.

why would sacto trade Fox for Collins/Sexton and 2 picks?

[spurraider21]

1884366511747522888

and here i thought the kings would bend over and publicly announce we can get him for pennies on the dollar

[baseline bum]

Idea KOC threw out:

Spurs get Fox

Kings get John Collins, Collin Sexton, 2 FRPs

Jazz get Keldon, Zollins, Huerter, 2 FRPs and 2 SRPs

In this scenario we give up 4 firsts, but we only have to give up garbage

Disturbing lack of Branham in that garbage

[BatManu20]

Side nugget: Fox's wife is also from San Antonio. That likely helps sway their decision as well.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GiaRUIDWcAAxSSR?format=jpg&name=medium

[scott]

1884366511747522888

and here i thought the kings would bend over and publicly announce we can get him for pennies on the dollar

Garsh, I hope they don't take Vassell, please anything but Devin

[The Truth #6]

Debbie Downer: agent is trying to create leverage. Smoke and mirrors. But hopefully wrong.

[LkrFan]

1884366511747522888
Vlade Divac bout to bend RC over. RC gonna have to grab his ankles and bite his bottom lip to get Fox. :lol

[Leetonidas]

1884366511747522888
Vlade Divac bout to bend RC over. RC gonna have to grab his ankles and bite his bottom lip to get Fox. :lol

Bye bye Devin!

[LkrFan]

1089857935532904449
Peep the date. :lol

[LkrFan]

Bye bye Devin!

:lol

[BatManu20]

Debbie Downer: agent is trying to create leverage. Smoke and mirrors. But hopefully wrong.

Could definitely be posturing to get Fox his deal with Sacto. But there could also be real legs to this. They're also not going to just give him away so PATFO either offer Castle or Vassell + multiple FRP's or this ain't happening.

[DPG21920]

Haynes is saying Fox won't sign an extension.
No reason to wait for the summer and not get him now.
If Wright lowballs, someone else will get him at the deadline.

Before tank crew rolls in, difference between 9th and 12th best odds isn't worth it.

Theres plenty of reasons to wait. Same as TOR waiting for Kawhi got them a steal. If Fox wants to be here and has told SAC that theres no reason for SA to overpay. Fine with a couple picks and maybe even Vassel if SA regrets his money and wants to reroute it to Fox, but SA should not be going wild here with picks.

[Mal]

Klutch sport have already deal for 250 mil ready to sign when he lands in SA.

Vassell + garbage salary fillers + 2 frp of their choosing + shit tons of srp

[The Truth #6]

Presumably Wright is asking Harrison Barnes for a character reference et cetera

[baseline bum]

highway robbery. i dont see it happening.

why would sacto trade Fox for Collins/Sexton and 2 picks?

Why would Sacto draft Bagley over Doncic?

[The Truth #6]

Could definitely be posturing to get Fox his deal with Sacto. But there could also be real legs to this. They're also not going to just give him away so PATFO either offer Castle or Vassell + multiple FRP's or this ain't happening.

If they'll take Devin as the centerpiece then yes, please.

[scott]

Keith Smith saying he would not assume that if we get Fox that it means CP3 is on the move, and that they could play together (duh, but just some third party confirmation).

Barnes cannot go back to the Kings, FYI.

Everyone saying Castle would have to go back... but how does that make sense for SAC? Castle/DeRozan/Sabonis doesn't work (just like DeRozan/Sochan/Sabonis wouldn't work). Vassell makes most sense as an on-the-court fit. Devin Carter is their PG of the future, Monk is best as a 6th man, Ellis gives them the rest of the guard depth they need.

[Sugus]

Let's fucking go.

What an opportunity. An All-Star player trying to force his way to San Antonio?! It's fucking beautiful to witness :wow

:huddle::cry Thank You Wemby :cry:huddle:

[RC_Drunkford]

Gotta make this a 3 or 4 team trade so the Kings get John Collins/Cam Johnson while we throw our garbage and a gang of picks at the Nets and Jazz. You know Ainge loves them picks.

[Sugus]

Keith Smith saying he would not assume that if we get Fox that it means CP3 is on the move, and that they could play together (duh, but just some third party confirmation).

Barnes cannot go back to the Kings, FYI.

Everyone saying Castle would have to go back... but how does that make sense for SAC? Castle/DeRozan/Sabonis doesn't work (just like DeRozan/Sochan/Sabonis wouldn't work). Vassell makes most sense as an on-the-court fit. Devin Carter is their PG of the future, Monk is best as a 6th man, Ellis gives them the rest of the guard depth they need.

It would clearly be a Vassell-based package, and I'm here for it..... How are you feeling about the news?! I know you're for it as well :lol

[baseline bum]

If they'll take Devin as the centerpiece then yes, please.

I'll even throw in Branham and Wesley free if they like shitty guards.

[DPG21920]

Vassell for Fox straight up works. Add SA25 + SA27 + CHI25 + tear up the SAC31 swap.

Then trade Tre + multiple SRPs for big Daddy. See if we can trade Keldon for any half decent PF.

Lineup this year:

CP3/Castle
Fox/Castle
Barnes/Champ
Sochan/Keldon
Wemby/Daddy

You run a 3-man guard rotation with CP3/Fox/Castle. Two of them on the court at all times, use Blake to pick up an extra 5-8 min/night if needed.

If you can't get off Keldon you find a way to make it work with him as the undersized backup 4. Adding Big Daddy Val helps in that regard so you still have size inside.

Next season:

Fox/CP3
Castle/tbd
Barnes/Champ
Sochan/tbd
Wemby/Daddy

You still have ATL25 to pickup a SG or PF. Get the other in FA. Maybe you make another move for Coby White to be your 6th man scorer.

Vassell + 2 firsts is reasonable along with the swap but I keep CHI pick out of it. If they take Collins + Keldon or something like that they can have CHI pick in there too IMO. Comes down to SA though: Does giving up Vassell in a win now move for Fox make sense or help win now? That money goes to Fox sure, but hes due 50M here soon so it will be an additional 20M to Fox as well.

If SA wants a reset on Vassell money then it makes sense for sure. Just have to see where SA is on that….I can see both arguments (giving him up or not)

[TDomination]

trading castle would piss me off.

he has great potential, really young, still a rookie. that would be a dumb move imo regardless if its for fox. you have enough picks and other players to get this deal done without movie castle. don't move castle. period.

[DPG21920]

It will cost Castle.

I will take that bet with you. Name your terms?

[Dverde]

I wouldn’t doubt Fox wants to play with Wemby, but whether the Spurs will give up assets needed is different story. I’m not 100% sold on Fox and I wish he had a better 3 point percentage. I do trust the Spurs to make that valuation at this point.

[DPG21920]

Exactly what I mean. Spurs need to make a move now before some other team does.

Nah. Spurs will be fine if they dont make this move IMO. They dont need to rush or overpay. If someone else wants to give up their future for Fox. Let them.

[TDomination]

between devin or castle...you trade devin in a heartbeat.

i hope they feel the same way.

we know what we have in devin...castle is still finding his place and he's been special already on many occasions.

[rankingtear]

I read that the Kings played better when Fox went out. I don’t watch SAC, is there any merit to this claim or just horseshit?

monk and sabonis has a better 2 man game

[Mugen]

I like Fox but the already terrible spacing would take an even bigger hit.

[scott]

It would clearly be a Vassell-based package, and I'm here for it..... How are you feeling about the news?! I know you're for it as well :lol

Feels good to even be considered :lol

Though we have no actual confirmation, I'm taking the reports that there is "mutual interest" as intel that Brian Wright is actively working this, which invigorates me with hope in this FO.

[DPG21920]

Idea KOC threw out:

Spurs get Fox

Kings get John Collins, Collin Sexton, 2 FRPs

Jazz get Keldon, Zollins, Huerter, 2 FRPs and 2 SRPs

In this scenario we give up 4 firsts, but we only have to give up garbage

I don’t want anything more than 2-3 firsts max. 4 is too much, even if it’s Keldon/Collins going out. If it’s 4 firsts, we need to unload ALL salaries we dont want past this season including Branham + Blake as well at a minimum.

[Spurs Brazil]

https://x.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/1884359594560086372

[Mal]

No way Spurs trade Castle. NBA will block it, since he has to dunk over Wemby to make this shit watchable

[tim_duncan_fan]

But Castle is nearly my favorite player on the team. I don't feel good.

[NASpurs]

https://x.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/1884359594560086372

Zach Lowe stepping on our collective nuts and dreams.

[024]

Given the amount of leverage Fox just handed the Spurs, they should not be giving up both Vassell and Castle + draft capital. Especially since Fox is a 33% career 3pt shooter and doesn't have the best advanced analytics. If only Branham or Wesley showed any ounce of promise.

If somehow the Spurs pull of a trade of KJ + Collins + 4 FRP, this would the greatest trade the Spurs FO accomplishes.

[scott]

Vassell + 2 firsts is reasonable along with the swap but I keep CHI pick out of it. If they take Collins + Keldon or something like that they can have CHI pick in there too IMO. Comes down to SA though: Does giving up Vassell in a win now move for Fox make sense or help win now? That money goes to Fox sure, but hes due 50M here soon so it will be an additional 20M to Fox as well.

If SA wants a reset on Vassell money then it makes sense for sure. Just have to see where SA is on that….I can see both arguments (giving him up or not)

I'm pretty indifferent about the CHI pick. I'm confident they're about to enter deep tank mode and it won't convey. We'll see.

[TDomination]

honestly if they ask for castle and thats the only way they will trade fox, then we better pass on the trade.
trading castle would be D.U.M.B.

[Seventyniner]

Realistically, they're not going to trade Fox unless it's for a good, young player + multiple picks imo. It would have to include Vassell. They need perimeter shooting so they likely have no interest in Sochan.

Devin + 3 FRP's is likely the bare minimum to make this trade happen tbh.

Don't threaten me with a good time.

[Davidicus]

trading castle would piss me off.

he has great potential, really young, still a rookie. that would be a dumb move imo regardless if its for fox. you have enough picks and other players to get this deal done without movie castle. don't move castle. period.

Ditto. I’d be f&$@ing pissed. He has too much potential to throw down in a poker game like that.

Mr Right this is where you earn your paycheck. Send Vassell with some FRPs without too much bite and get it done before the vultures show up.

[Dverde]

https://x.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/1884359594560086372
He is such a hack, he’s just looking at tweets. States obvious things and remains vague.

[scott]

I love Castle. And I just about hate Devin. But if SAC wants Castle instead of Devin I'm not letting that be the thing that holds up a deal.

[Devi8or]

If they wanna move Fox somewhere other than SA without an extension, be my guest, we'll just get him without compensation in a little while after that

[scott]

Important not to overstate our leverage here. Right now Klutch is saying they're open to other teams. Unless Fox makes it clear he ONLY wants to go to San Antonio, we're going to have to come with a strong offer. Like Davidicus says we need to strike before the other vultures show up (it may already be too late). Hopefully the SAC front office is in full Kangz mode.

[Mal]

I love Castle. And I just about hate Devin. But if SAC wants Castle instead of Devin I'm not letting that be the thing that holds up a deal.

I would not trade Castle for Fox. Wemby is out of the question, Sochan is also secure, since he does not fit Sacto at all. Vassell fits if they want something more than picks.

[tim_duncan_fan]

honestly if they ask for castle and thats the only way they will trade fox, then we better pass on the trade.
trading castle would be D.U.M.B.

Would it be dumb? There's the argument that we know DeAaron Fox is a quasi-allstar and Castle might not get to that point. There's logic to it, unless there's a reasonable chance Castle will be markedly better than Fox is currently.

But yeah...I would not feel good in my fan-soul about sending Castle.

[spurraider21]

Important not to overstate our leverage here. Right now Klutch is saying they're open to other teams. Unless Fox makes it clear he ONLY wants to go to San Antonio, we're going to have to come with a strong offer. Like Davidicus (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1440) says we need to strike before the other vultures show up (it may already be too late). Hopefully the SAC front office is in full Kangz mode.
klutch doesnt want to get in trouble the way lillard did when he said he only wanted to go to miami. i think they're giving lip service but fox clearly has his heart set, consistent with past report that klutch wants to funnel a star to SA

the leverage sacto has is time, the same way philly did with harden, even though LAC were clearly the only suitor

[scott]

klutch doesnt want to get in trouble the way lillard did when he said he only wanted to go to miami. i think they're giving lip service but fox clearly has his heart set, consistent with past report that klutch wants to funnel a star to SA

the leverage sacto has is time, the same way philly did with harden, even though LAC were clearly the only suitor

prayingdog.gif

[DPG21920]

I'm pretty indifferent about the CHI pick. I'm confident they're about to enter deep tank mode and it won't convey. We'll see.

It’s on the cusp of conveying now! Would I cry about it if it’s Vassell + and 2 firsts + CHI + the Swap? Nah. It’s in the realm. I just hope its not that much or that at least SA moves as much salary as possible (like Colllins, Branham, Blake) that we know we dont want on books next season if SA is going to do that.

[spurraider21]

prayingdog.gif
unless there is a toronto rapotors esque situation where some team agrees to give assets to rent Fox knowing he's almost certainly leaving... but Fox isnt on the same level as peak nephew. im not sure what situation exists where he would be seen as the piece to put them over the top. maybe sons, but they dont have the assets.

[johnnymoore]

Devin & Castle plus 2 FRP beats Fox going to Houston.

[DPG21920]

Zach Lowe stepping on our collective nuts and dreams.

Zach isnt really a Spurs lover….low key hater IMO. But who cares is SA has what SAC wants. If Fox is indeed forcing his way out and says I want SA, SA has enough to get it done. Now, Kings may opt to spite Fox or hold onto him and lose him for nothing but that would be great for SA since it means they likely have a shot in FA and give up nothing

[mystargtr34]

I’m doing Devin + ‘25 FRP (worst of ATL and SAS) + ‘27 FRP (worst of ATL and SAS) + ‘31 SAC swap returned + fillers (Keldon, Zach, Branham, Wesley) don’t give a fuck.

[DPG21920]

Devin & Castle plus 2 FRP beats Fox going to Houston.

Hell no.

[RC_Drunkford]

believe it or not, but Champagnie's contract will be very valuable in these negotiations

[scott]

It’s on the cusp of conveying now! Would I cry about it if it’s Vassell + and 2 firsts + CHI + the Swap? Nah. It’s in the realm. I just hope its not that much or that at least SA moves as much salary as possible (like Colllins, Branham, Blake) that we know we dont want on books next season if SA is going to do that.

CHI hasn't begun their tank in earnest yet (and they may not, if they don't find takers for Lavine and Vooch), but there are reports that their entire roster is practically for sale.

Would be nice to get off Collins, but his salary will actually have utility as an expiring next season - more utility than he's actually offered as a player since he signed it that contract. Might actually be worth keeping him just to use to acquire another role player next year.

Bran and Blake are irrelevant and can easily be moved later or just be waived if we need the roster space next year. We can just carry them operating as an over-the-cap team and then waive them. Not worth given a second thought to.

[Kevin]

I would trade Castle for Fox. Spurs haven't developed a non shooter since Chip left despite many chances to do so (Sochan, Branham, Wesley, Primo, Langford with poor early returns on Castle)

Dev is the better fit with DMR, Sabonis and Murray tho. Trading Dev and Tre plus picks for Fox is like five steps forward and one step backward long term. Well worth it.

[DPG21920]

Whatever it ends up being if SA makes the move, I would really love the picks to be from years where we have multiple.

So one from 25, one from 27 and then SAC swap back (and maybe CHI pick too if necessary). That way whether it’s for drafting or more trades, SA still has firsts in every calendar year draft moving forward.

[DPG21920]

CHI hasn't begun their tank in earnest yet (and they may not, if they don't find takers for Lavine and Vooch), but there are reports that their entire roster is practically for sale.

Would be nice to get off Collins, but his salary will actually have utility as an expiring next season - more utility than he's actually offered as a player since he signed it that contract. Might actually be worth keeping him just to use to acquire another role player next year.

Bran and Blake are irrelevant and can easily be moved later or just be waived if we need the roster space next year. We can just carry them operating as an over-the-cap team and then waive them. Not worth given a second thought to.

I think it does matter collectively if we are paying the cost anyways to do it. Shaving off another 9-12M just makes Fox cheaper for example (I dont mind paying Fox Dev + Branham + Blake money or Collins + Keldon etc..)

[scott]

believe it or not, but Champagnie's contract will be very valuable in these negotiations

Yep, I've been saying... Champ is low key one of our best trade assets (but he's also a useful role player for us and I don't really want to lose him either, but I'm not letting him be the deal breaker). SAC has a similar player in Keon Ellis. Contracts that are such amazing bargains for multiple years that they become worth more than they'd otherwise be on a fair market deal.

[Mal]

You will need to keep couple srp to fill the roster after all big deals are handed

[mo7888]

Idea KOC threw out:

Spurs get Fox

Kings get John Collins, Collin Sexton, 2 FRPs

Jazz get Keldon, Zollins, Huerter, 2 FRPs and 2 SRPs

In this scenario we give up 4 firsts, but we only have to give up garbage

That keeps our cap space ($24M I believe) the same as it is now for this summer. I don't hate it...

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs: Fox
Kings: John Collins, Julien Champagnie, 25 CHI pick, 27 ATL pick, 25 CHA pick and get their swap back
Jazz: Tre Jones, Keldon Johnson, 4 second round picks

[spurraider21]

Spurs: Fox
Kings: John Collins, Julien Champagnie, 25 CHI pick, 27 ATL pick, 25 CHA pick and get their swap back
Jazz: Tre Jones, Keldon Johnson, 4 second round picks
in a heartbeat. i dont see it happening this way, but im open to being wrong :lol

[PhantomDashCam]

I love Castle. And I just about hate Devin. But if SAC wants Castle instead of Devin I'm not letting that be the thing that holds up a deal.

I don't know, that's a tough one.
Year 2 Castle may be very well be an All-NBA defender and in Year 3, I think he could genuinely be in All-Star contention.

I don't think the Spurs want to face that kind of player in their own Conference for the next decade + knowing they had a hand in doing it...

[DesignatedT]

Fox
Huerter

for

Vassell
Collins
CHI 25 Pick (Top 10 Protected)
SA 27 Pick
Return SAC their 31 Pick Swap
2nds

I think that's probably best case scenario.

[Blizzardwizard]

Important not to overstate our leverage here. Right now Klutch is saying they're open to other teams. Unless Fox makes it clear he ONLY wants to go to San Antonio, we're going to have to come with a strong offer. Like Davidicus (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1440) says we need to strike before the other vultures show up (it may already be too late). Hopefully the SAC front office is in full Kangz mode.


They're likely just covering themselves in the event a deal with SAS doesn't materialize so Fox still has an out.


It being out there that Fox has a 'desired destination' isn't without reason. If Klutch/Fox were truly 'open to all offers' that information wouldn't have made it into Shams' initial report.


Klutch have effectively given Brian Wright the biggest open goal he'll ever have as General Manager. If he can't score now chances are he never will.

[scott]

I think it does matter collectively if we are paying the cost anyways to do it. Shaving off another 9-12M just makes Fox cheaper for example (I dont mind paying Fox Dev + Branham + Blake money or Collins + Keldon etc..)

I mean, it's not like they're coming to ask me to write a check for any of it... IDAF if the Spurs P&L shows a $9-12MM variance next year :lol

My point is that having Bran and Blake on the cap sheet likely isn't going to impact our ability to do anything, because we'll be over the cap anyway. With that said, yeah, if we can get rid of them (Bran especially) I'm all for it. But they aren't creating any issues (and in fact they could be helpful as expiring filler in the summer)

[Davidicus]

klutch doesnt want to get in trouble the way lillard did when he said he only wanted to go to miami. i think they're giving lip service but fox clearly has his heart set, consistent with past report that klutch wants to funnel a star to SA

the leverage sacto has is time, the same way philly did with harden, even though LAC were clearly the only suitor

Been wondering about this. Refresh my memory on the “trouble” they got in with Dame? And who’d they get in trouble with?

Bc if I’m Klutch and Fox truly wants SA Wemby, why wouldn’t I start with SA as his only preference and then open it up to other teams if they get word SA SAC negotiations aren’t looking good?

[scott]

Spurs: Fox
Kings: John Collins, Julien Champagnie, 25 CHI pick, 27 ATL pick, 25 CHA pick and get their swap back
Jazz: Tre Jones, Keldon Johnson, 4 second round picks

Seems like the Jazz are getting robbed here. They'll need better compensation for Collins and taking on Keldon, IMO.

[DPG21920]

I mean, it's not like they're coming to ask me to write a check for any of it... IDAF if the Spurs P&L shows a $9-12MM variance next year :lol

My point is that having Bran and Blake on the cap sheet likely isn't going to impact our ability to do anything, because we'll be over the cap anyway. With that said, yeah, if we can get rid of them (Bran especially) I'm all for it. But they aren't creating any issues (and in fact they could be helpful as expiring filler in the summer)

I guess I view it as margins matter. Spurs need to be razor sharp in every aspect. Be hawks. Extract value at every single turn. And for small franchises that do operate on budgets that money can be better spent and can come in handy if other moves are made for significant cap space etc..

That 9M being gone means they can maybe dump Zach this offseason and now have significant cap space with less friction to make bigger moves this offseason etc…

Spurs cant just play nice and get fleeced is my point; all the details matter from here on out.

[scott]

They're likely just covering themselves in the event a deal with SAS doesn't materialize so Fox still has an out.


It being out there that Fox has a 'desired destination' isn't without reason. If Klutch/Fox were truly 'open to all offers' that information wouldn't have made it into Shams' initial report.


Klutch have effectively given Brian Wright the biggest open goal he'll ever have as General Manager. If he can't score now chances are he never will.

Perfect analogy.

[ginobilized]

Am I dreaming? SA is mentioned as a trade destination for a high-level player?

Gotta love this!

If this comes to pass, and it depends on the players we give up, but, what's the SL with Fox?

CP3/Fox/Barnes/Sochan/Wemby
or
Fox/Castle/Champagnie/Barnes/Wemby (I like this lineup with us giving up Vassell)
or
Fox/Vassell/Champagnie/Sochan/Wemby

and a bench of CP3/KJ/Sochan/Barnes/Bassey

OR Scott's Plan, which would be pretty sweet

Fox/Vassell/Barnes/Sochan/Wemby
Cp3/Castle/Champagnie/???/Bassey

[RC_Drunkford]

Seems like the Jazz are getting robbed here. They'll need better compensation for Collins and taking on Keldon, IMO.

true, I wish we had more first round picks :lol a first and a couple 2nds would probably get it done. We could even send CP3 to the Kings as their back up PG and take on Huerter who they are trying to get rid off. I think there are ways to get Fox without giving up Vassell nor Castle, which I would prefer.

[scott]

I guess I view it as margins matter. Spurs need to be razor sharp in every aspect. Be hawks. Extract value at every single turn. And for small franchises that do operate on budgets that money can be better spent and can come in handy if other moves are made for significant cap space etc..

That 9M being gone means they can maybe dump Zach this offseason and now have significant cap space with less friction to make bigger moves this offseason etc…

Spurs cant just play nice and get fleeced is my point; all the details matter from here on out.

I agree, but there is a logistical cut off, which is the cap. If you're going to be over the cap anyway, saving another $5MM over the cap doesn't really matter in terms of what it allows you to do or not do. In fact, you might be better off having that $5MM expiring to pair with some SRPs to bring back a useful role player.

Now... if there is a FA you want (and I have my eyes on Aldama as an RFA, Laravia as a UFA, and Naz if he declines his PO) and there is a way to free up that cap space by moving these guys now, then for sure I'm with you and we need to move those out (though it then begs the question of why you opted into Blake and Bran's 4th years anyway... but that's another matter). I haven't played enough with the Spurs cap sheet next year to know, but I'm sure the Spurs FO knows it like the back of their hand.

And of course, I only want the Spurs to trade as little as possible to get the deal done. But if it takes the CHI pick on top, I'm doing it. If they don't want Bran or Blake, no problem, I'm still doing it.

[TXstbobcat]

Was listening to local Houston sports talk a few minutes ago and they were salivating over a rockets trade with the Kings for Fox.

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs definitely need to play hard ball and maybe even wait it out til the offseason. They gotta make sure to not give up too much for Fox who only has 1.5 years left on his deal.

[objective]

Gotta get medicals first to check out those hand injuries. If he's going to play hurt on it and wait for surgery that needs to lower the price bigly. There's a long sad history of guys playing through injuries and either never being the same or taking years to recover. Don't want to see him turn into another John Collins where a hand injury ruins him for a couple of extra seasons beyond it's initial scope.

Even then, the swap return needs to be counted as having tremendous value because it does.

I'm not even that interested in moving Vassell or Castle because they can be starting wings of the future albeit small.

They can take Sochan and move him to a third team for more assets. Keldon/Sochan/Tre + Better of ATL/SA 25 and better of ATL/SA 27 + swap return.

They could get another first for Sochan easy and make it 3 good firsts plus a valuable swap, that's good enough for a guy with a torn up hand

Can't give up everything or everyone because they really need a PF of the future. Barnes is washed and Sochan can only really defend perimeter players even if he was kept. He's not a screen and roll player and can't shoot.

[heyheymymy]

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THAT, YOU DON'T LIKE NBA BASKETBALL!

(can we also get their play by play guy?)

You want to "chop it up" with Mark Jones? lol they can send Kayte though (sorry)

[scott]

50 pages by midnight CT boys. No sleep 'til Foxtown.

[Dejounte]

I’m sorry, but I say just let Castle go tbh

[RC_Drunkford]

I agree, but there is a logistical cut off, which is the cap. If you're going to be over the cap anyway, saving another $5MM over the cap doesn't really matter in terms of what it allows you to do or not do. In fact, you might be better off having that $5MM expiring to pair with some SRPs to bring back a useful role player.

Now... if there is a FA you want (and I have my eyes on Aldama as an RFA, Laravia as a UFA, and Naz if he declines his PO) and there is a way to free up that cap space by moving these guys now, then for sure I'm with you and we need to move those out (though it then begs the question of why you opted into Blake and Bran's 4th years anyway... but that's another matter). I haven't played enough with the Spurs cap sheet next year to know, but I'm sure the Spurs FO knows it like the back of their hand.

And of course, I only want the Spurs to trade as little as possible to get the deal done. But if it takes the CHI pick on top, I'm doing it. If they don't want Bran or Blake, no problem, I'm still doing it.

if we ship out the same salary that we get back by getting Fox, we should have about 24 million in cap space (according to projections). If we also take back Huerter for CP3's expiring that becomes less, but we could open up significant space by moving Zach Collins' expiring 18 million for a bunch of 2nds.

Then you make a run at Alexander-Walker, LaRavia, Aldama, Naz Reid.

[Mr. Body]

This smells a lot like Klutch and Sacto posturing about his extension, tbh. How many times does this same scenario have to play out. Rich Paul and Fox want the full bag, Kings don't want to give the full bag, Rich Paul says San Antonio, and then player and current team settle.

[objective]

if we ship out basically the same salary that we get back by getting Fox, we should have about 24 million in cap space (according to projections) and we could open up significant space by moving Zach Collins' expiring 18 million for a bunch of 2nds.

Then you make a run at Alexander-Walker, LaRavia, Aldama, Naz Reid

Naz Reid is the answer.

[scott]

if we ship out basically the same salary that we get back by getting Fox, we should have about 24 million in cap space (according to projections) and we could open up significant space by moving Zach Collins' expiring 18 million for a bunch of 2nds.

Then you make a run at Alexander-Walker, LaRavia, Aldama, Naz Reid

I like it. I was looking at our capholds which puts us $14MM over the cap going into the offseason.

Fox for Devin (which works cap wise and I think is still most logical) eats up $10MM of that space, but if you can get off Collins, Bran and Blake like DPG21920 suggestions, then you can definitely open up some nice space.

If over-the-cap, you could always use that MIN31 pick to entice the Wolves into a S&T for Naz if you had to.

[LeBowen]

You want to "chop it up" with Mark Jones? lol they can send Kayte though (sorry)

Grant Napear is the guy I was referring to.

[timtonymanu]

I love Castle but I would gladly trade him in a deal for Fox.

[RC_Drunkford]

Gotta get medicals first to check out those hand injuries. If he's going to play hurt on it and wait for surgery that needs to lower the price bigly. There's a long sad history of guys playing through injuries and either never being the same or taking years to recover. Don't want to see him turn into another John Collins where a hand injury ruins him for a couple of extra seasons beyond it's initial scope.

Even then, the swap return needs to be counted as having tremendous value because it does.

I'm not even that interested in moving Vassell or Castle because they can be starting wings of the future albeit small.

They can take Sochan and move him to a third team for more assets. Keldon/Sochan/Tre + Better of ATL/SA 25 and better of ATL/SA 27 + swap return.

They could get another first for Sochan easy and make it 3 good firsts plus a valuable swap, that's good enough for a guy with a torn up hand

Can't give up everything or everyone because they really need a PF of the future. Barnes is washed and Sochan can only really defend perimeter players even if he was kept. He's not a screen and roll player and can't shoot.

Sochan is a top 5 roll man in the NBA according to numbers, so that take is not true. If Fox needs surgery let him take it immediately, so we can get a better draft pick. This would be the last time we'are getting a high Spurs pick in a long time. This should also somewhat lower his price tbh.

[T Park]

This smells a lot like Klutch and Sacto posturing about his extension, tbh. How many times does this same scenario have to play out. Rich Paul and Fox want the full bag, Kings don't want to give the full bag, Rich Paul says San Antonio, and then player and current team settle.


Anthony Davis says hi

[DesignatedT]

Much rather trade Vassell than Castle.

[heyheymymy]

I think I'm growing reluctantly ready to stab Devin Vassell in the back and pack his damn luggage myself

but can we please at least keep Castle

[mo7888]

I’m sorry, but I say just let Castle go tbh

No doubt.... and he's worth a first...so that lets us keep a little bit more capital. Side note- if the current mocks are close to correct and we still have one 1st, we might want to trade back with Brooklyn for two of their firsts and draft De Larrea (who can play alongside Fox) and either Fleming or Byrd.

[RC_Drunkford]

I’m sorry, but I say just let Castle go tbh

I wouldn't. He's basically the same age as Wemby and could become about as good as Fox when he hits his prime. Castle definitely has All-Star caliber.

Guys, y'all need to remember we are trying to build a super team here.

[objective]

Sochan is a top 5 roll man in the NBA according to numbers, so that take is not true. If Fox needs surgery let him take it immediately, so we can get a better draft pick. This would be the last time we'are getting a high Spurs pick in a long time. This should also somewhat lower his price tbh.

I would need to see the plays. Maybe he counts with Wemby having the ball, but I rarely recall him pairing with anyone else, and he never did any during his rookie year especially. Because if it's just plays off Wemby that's the answer, it's all Wemby and he wouldn't be doing that anywhere else except with Jokic

[RC_Drunkford]

I would need to see the plays. Maybe he counts with Wemby having the ball, but I rarely recall him pairing with anyone else, and he never did any during his rookie year especially. Because if it's just plays off Wemby that's the answer, it's all Wemby and he wouldn't be doing that anywhere else except with Jokic

5th in the NBA with 1.5 points per posession as the roll man. 98th percentile, 13th in the NBA in FG% as the roll man. He's absolutely ELITE. Imagine what he would do setting picks for an All-Star PG.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/roll-man?dir=D&sort=PPP

[Mr. Body]

Anthony Davis says hi

Hi about what.

[Dejounte]

I wouldn't. He's basically the same age as Wemby and could become about as good as Fox when he hits his prime. Castle definitely has All-Star caliber.

Guys, y'all need to remember we are trying to build a super team here.

pretty sure the age gap between Duncan and Manu was five years. Stars being the same age matters very little. I dont even think we’ve seen that historically (a championship duo that’s the same age and have stuck together for most of their careers)

[dn0774]

This smells a lot like Klutch and Sacto posturing about his extension, tbh. How many times does this same scenario have to play out. Rich Paul and Fox want the full bag, Kings don't want to give the full bag, Rich Paul says San Antonio, and then player and current team settle.

Pretty sure the full bag was offered to Fox in the recent off season but he declined due to wanting the supermax which he did not yet qualify for. His declining the max extension was a bet on himself to make an All NBA team this season which is seeming somewhat unlikely with his play being a bit disappointing of late (he has had some hand injury that is limiting him a bit iirc).

I think Rich Paul/Fox making this move is an acknowledgement by them that All NBA honors ain't happening this year so may as well start the process to position himself in a better situation and/or preferred location.

[spurraider21]

Been wondering about this. Refresh my memory on the “trouble” they got in with Dame? And who’d they get in trouble with?

Bc if I’m Klutch and Fox truly wants SA Wemby, why wouldn’t I start with SA as his only preference and then open it up to other teams if they get word SA SAC negotiations aren’t looking good?
im not sure that an official penalty was levied but there was this warning letter that went out and was circulated widely

NBA's full Damian Lillard memo

Recent media reports stated that Damian Lillard’s agent, Aaron Goodwin, called multiple NBA teams to warn them against trading for Lillard because Lillard’s only desired trade destination is Miami. Goodwin also made public comments indicating that Lillard would not fully perform the services called for under his player contract if traded to another team.


We interviewed Goodwin and Lillard and also spoke with several NBA teams to whom Goodwin spoke. Goodwin denied stating or indicating to any team that Lillard would refuse to play for them. Goodwin and Lillard affirmed to us that Lillard would fully perform the services called for under his player contract in any trade scenario. The relevant teams provided descriptions of their communications with Goodwin that were mostly, though not entirely, consistent with Goodwin’s statements to us.


We have advised Goodwin and Lillard that any future comments, made privately to teams or publicly, suggesting Lillard will not fully perform the services called for under his player contract in the event of a trade will subject Lillard to discipline by the NBA. We also have advised the Players Association that any similar comments by players or their agents will be subject to discipline going forward.

[spurraider21]

the nba has similarly issued fines for any player who publicly demands a trade

[Mr. Body]

Pretty sure the full bag was offered to Fox in the recent off season but he declined due to wanting the supermax which he did not yet qualify for. His declining the max extension was a bet on himself to make an All NBA team this season which is seeming somewhat unlikely with his play being a bit disappointing of late (he has had some hand injury that is limiting him a bit iirc).

I think Rich Paul/Fox making this move is an acknowledgement by them that All NBA honors ain't happening this year so may as well start the process to position himself in a better situation and/or preferred location.

Yeah, and this is a continuation of what was happening in December. There's x-shits about how Fox's team hasn't demanded a trade at all, although the casual basketball world is running off with the idea. He wants his money. I mean, he was stupid to think he could get All-NBA. He's just not that player. But him and Klutch want their big wad and they want the Kings to give it to him.

I'm sure the Spurs are as surprised about all this as anyone else.

[spurraider21]

This smells a lot like Klutch and Sacto posturing about his extension, tbh. How many times does this same scenario have to play out. Rich Paul and Fox want the full bag, Kings don't want to give the full bag, Rich Paul says San Antonio, and then player and current team settle.
always an evil klutchspiracy

[vy65]

If this shit is going to happen, I’d really rather it happen ASAP. We have 5 games before the deadline. Most are against top talent (I think the heat game might be the worst). And one of them is against ATL. That could be a make/break stretch, with some out-sized games in terms of importance (ATL). I can see an argument for not rocking the boat until the last minute, but I don’t see the team as-constituted faring this stretch well.

[RC_Drunkford]

pretty sure the age gap between Duncan and Manu was five years. Stars being the same age matters very little. I dont even think we’ve seen that historically (a championship duo that’s the same age and have stuck together for most of their careers)

of course, but imagine Fox being 33 and Castle being 26 just hitting his prime. You can just swap one for the other.

[Mr. Body]

always an evil klutchspiracy

I mean, if you don't understand what Klutch is and how they work at this point, that's on you.

[Davidicus]

im not sure that an official penalty was levied but there was this warning letter that went out and was circulated widely

NBA's full Damian Lillard memo

Recent media reports stated that Damian Lillard’s agent, Aaron Goodwin, called multiple NBA teams to warn them against trading for Lillard because Lillard’s only desired trade destination is Miami. Goodwin also made public comments indicating that Lillard would not fully perform the services called for under his player contract if traded to another team.


We interviewed Goodwin and Lillard and also spoke with several NBA teams to whom Goodwin spoke. Goodwin denied stating or indicating to any team that Lillard would refuse to play for them. Goodwin and Lillard affirmed to us that Lillard would fully perform the services called for under his player contract in any trade scenario. The relevant teams provided descriptions of their communications with Goodwin that were mostly, though not entirely, consistent with Goodwin’s statements to us.


We have advised Goodwin and Lillard that any future comments, made privately to teams or publicly, suggesting Lillard will not fully perform the services called for under his player contract in the event of a trade will subject Lillard to discipline by the NBA. We also have advised the Players Association that any similar comments by players or their agents will be subject to discipline going forward.

Wow. Never read that. Thanks.

So very possible it’s a CYA type of move. At minimum these other vulture teams hesitate with their best offers, knowing there’s a chance he walks to his dream destination in 2026. At least that’s the hope.

[Mr. Body]

It's not even a conspiracy. It's just Klutch having a goal, which is their client paid, and working for that goal. I'm not sure how that's a conspiracy. Just stand back and look at the situation without sticking your hands down your pants.

[benefactor]

Perfect analogy.
He said what I came here to say.

This is Wemby open under the rim for a dunk. You have a willing player and all the assets in the world to get it done easily. He would have to actively try in order to fuck this up.

[Davidicus]

of course, but imagine Fox being 33 and Castle being 26 just hitting his prime. You can just swap one for the other.

Yes. This is why you don’t trade Castle. He can play the 2, and then the 1 when Fox loses a step and becomes a CP3 shooter / facilitator (ish). They’re each other’s insurance policies now and later.

[mo7888]

It's not even a conspiracy. It's just Klutch having a goal, which is their client paid, and working for that goal. I'm not sure how that's a conspiracy. Just stand back and look at the situation without sticking your hands down your pants.

Their client is getting paid the max either way. That along with the long standing rumors that Klutch wants to pair their clients with Wemby adds much fire to the smoke we're seeing.

[Dejounte]

Getting my favorite pg in the league on my favorite team would be a dream

this guy is a treat to watch tbh for true basketball enthusiasts

[DPG21920]

He said what I came here to say.

This is Wemby open under the rim for a dunk. You have a willing player and all the assets in the world to get it done easily. He would have to actively try in order to fuck this up.

Honest question: Does cost have no bearing to you here? Would it be a f*ck up if SAC said (hypothetically)we want: Vassell + Castle + ATL 25 + SA 25 + ATL 27 + SA 27 + Kings Swap back and FO said no? And Kings wouldn’t budge?

[Dejounte]

Didn’t realize him and Bam were teammates in college. Get Fox, secure Bam. Big three. Bam fits with Wemby perfectly.

[spurraider21]

It's not even a conspiracy. It's just Klutch having a goal, which is their client paid, and working for that goal. I'm not sure how that's a conspiracy. Just stand back and look at the situation without sticking your hands down your pants.
it is the stated mission of every agency to get their clients paid well, and in a situation that their client prefers and is most likely to succeed in. you always assign some extra layer of evil to klutch as opposed to other agencies

[Spurs Brazil]

https://x.com/MaximeAubin1/status/1884388728400994737

[objective]

If they want Castle they're getting Castle, salary filler, and maybe their swap back and that's it.

Top 4 pick who defends and can get to the rim? 15 points and 4 assists a game as a starter as a rookie? THAT'S BETTER than Fox did a rookie in starts.

If anything it should be approached the same way Sacramento approached getting Sabonis. One really good established player for one promising young player, straight up with salary filler and 2nd round picks

[Leetonidas]

https://x.com/MaximeAubin1/status/1884388728400994737

Itshappening.gif

[Sugus]

https://media2.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExMDk4OHpkZ2dlN2FoeXhkOWpubWJsMWJ jd2phc2pxY2pibzVveW01MCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfY nlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/huJmPXfeir5JlpPAx0/giphy.gif

[Spur4ever]

Spurs get -Fox
Kings get - Vassell, Tre, Malaki Spurs 2025 First, Spurs 2027 first, Chicago 1st.

Spurs get - Cam Johnson
Nets get - Collins, Wesley 2025 atl pick, 2026 atl swap and a couple 2nd’s

C- Wemby
Pf- Sochan
Sf- Johnson
Sg- Castle
Pg- Fox

Bench- CP3, KJ, Barnes, Mamu, Bassey, Julian,

[Dejounte]

Fox’s wife must be pushing hard for this since she’s from SA. Destiny doing its thing. Come on home, Fox’s

[spurraider21]

:lmao

1884395451631226953

[benefactor]

Honest question: Does cost have no bearing to you here? Would it be a f*ck up if SAC said (hypothetically)we want: Vassell + Castle + ATL 25 + SA 25 + ATL 27 + SA 27 + Kings Swap back and FO said no? And Kings wouldn’t budge?
Oh come on bro, that isn't an honest question:lol

Of course you make the right deal, but that is supposed to come with being a competent NBA executive. For any executive worth their salt, this is a layup.

[scott]

If they want Castle they're getting Castle, salary filler, and maybe their swap back and that's it.

Top 4 pick who defends and can get to the rim? 15 points and 4 assists a game as a starter as a rookie? THAT'S BETTER than Fox did a rookie in starts.

If anything it should be approached the same way Sacramento approached getting Sabonis. One really good established player for one promising young player, straight up with salary filler and 2nd round picks

You know you're not wrong... but I don't think it's quite a perfect analogy.

At the time of that trade, Sabonis was a 25-year old, 2-time All Star (no All NBA honors), averaging 19/12/5.

Right now, Fox is a 1-time All Star, 1-time All NBA, 27 years old, averaging 25/5/6.

I definitely think it's fair to put Sabonis and Fox in a roughly similar tier.

Where the analogy breaks down a little bit is that Hali was in his second year, coming off a 13/3/5 rookie campaign where he shot 40% from 3 and finished 3rd in ROY voting behind LaMelo and Ant. Hali only started 20 of 58 games that year. He was putting up 14/4/7 when the trade went down.

Castle is averaging 12/3/4 on 26% 3P%, starting 25 of 41 games. So Castle hasn't quite shown quite the promise Hali did his rookie year, and Hali had a full additional 67 games under his belt to show out before that trade happened.

So, I like where your head is at, but I don't think Castle has the same value Hali did when that trade happened.

With that said, I think this makes a very good case for why the Spurs should do their best to keep Castle in an attempt to acquire Fox.

[benefactor]

:lmao

1884395451631226953
:lol

[spurraider21]

1884397281916637594

[scott]

Fox’s wife must be pushing hard for this since she’s from SA. Destiny doing its thing. Come on home, Fox’s

She's from San Anto, so Mrs. Fox's best friend is probably named Destiny. Been sending Mrs. Fox pictures of Carne Guisada and raspas every day for the last 8 years with the caption "they got this shit in Sacto? jajajaja"

[DPG21920]

Oh come on bro, that isn't an honest question:lol

Of course you make the right deal, but that is supposed to come with being a competent NBA executive. For any executive worth their salt, this is a layup.

Hey - Im seeing a lot of “cost doesnt matter, get it done” stuff :lol Just need to know the baseline of expectations Im working with here lol

[TD 21]

Castle is the logical centerpiece for both teams.

Potential lead guard replacement + good with fit with Monk (can look to trade DeRozan).

He wouldn't have the space to play a role commensurate with draft status with Fox around and the two together would be untenable spacing wise.

They can target a POA guard-wing defender in the draft or if they have cap space exceeding the MLE, pursue Alexander-Walker.

[mo7888]

Fox
Alexander-Walker
Sochan
Naz
Wemby

Coach- Quinn Snyder

[ginobilized]

Losing Castle would really hurt. I think he and Fox are a great backcourt.

Off the top of my head, Vassell fits better with Monk, DeRozan and Ellis. Castle seems like a bad fit with DeRozan especially.

On the other hand, Vassell has been playing more team-friendly ball of late. He hasn't been pissing me off as much lately. Hoping that the Kings are seeing the same thing.

[Dejounte]

She's from San Anto, so Mrs. Fox's best friend is probably named Destiny. Been sending Mrs. Fox pictures of Carne Guisada and raspas every day for the last 8 years with the caption "they got this shit in Sacto? jajajaja"

bro wut

[BatManu20]

Losing Castle would really hurt. I think he and Fox are a great backcourt.

Off the top of my head, Vassell fits better with Monk, DeRozan and Ellis. Castle seems like a bad fit with DeRozan especially.

On the other hand, Vassell has been playing more team-friendly ball of late. He hasn't been pissing me off as much lately. Hoping that the Kings are seeing the same thing.


They don’t care about any of that tbh. Castle is the more valuable commodity and projects as a better player down the line. DeMar doesn’t affect any trades, he’s almost 36 and not a part of their long-term plans. They’ll likely demand Castle plus 3 or 4 FRP’s + salary filler at minimum imo.

[LeBowen]

Castle is the logical centerpiece for both teams.

Potential lead guard replacement + good with fit with Monk (can look to trade DeRozan).

He wouldn't have the space to play a role commensurate with draft status with Fox around and the two together would be untenable spacing wise.

They can target a POA guard-wing defender in the draft or if they have cap space exceeding the MLE, pursue Alexander-Walker.

A non-shooting guard isn't a logical centerpiece for a team with Sabonis.
While Castle has great upside, he's got a couple of years before he gets there.
Doesn't make sense unless they blow it up.
And Kings aren't a franchise that's going to accept where they get worse short term when they're finally back in the playoff picture.
And Carter is a similar type of player.

[scott]

Kings reddit seems to want a forward and a backup big, not another guard. They like Monk/Ellis/Carter as their primary guard rotation. Apparently the lineup of Monk/Ellis/Derozan/Murray/Sabonis has insane splits, something like a +48 NETRTG (I looked it up, it's only +23, but over a decent sample of 124 minutes. 124.8 ORTG and a 101.6 DRTG) so fans want to see more of that lineup.

Maybe the best way to make this happen is with a 3rd team that can deliver a forward to SAC. BKN immediately comes to mind with Cam Johnson and someone like Day'Ron Sharpe.

This works in the trade machine:

SAS Gets Fox

SAC Gets Cam, Sharpe

BKN Gets Keldon, Tre

Add in picks as necessary (probably one to SAC and two to BKN is my guess). You could also add on Blake (but not Bran) to BKN and this would still work.

There are lots of combinations that you could put together to make this work, as far as the cap goes.

[Seventyniner]

Fox’s wife must be pushing hard for this since she’s from SA. Destiny doing its thing. Come on home, Fox’s

Karma for Joumana Kidd 22.5 years later.

[scott]

bro wut

Just thinking about 75% of the San Antonio girls I dated growing up :lol

[Mal]

They’ll likely demand Castle plus 3 or 4 FRP’s + salary filler at minimum imo.

Then let Houston pay them that and shift focus for another superstar on the market

[itzsoweezee]

This smells a lot like Klutch and Sacto posturing about his extension, tbh. How many times does this same scenario have to play out. Rich Paul and Fox want the full bag, Kings don't want to give the full bag, Rich Paul says San Antonio, and then player and current team settle.

Any examples where it got to this point and the player resigned with his team?

[Rosewood]

Our front office is going to fuck this up for sure :lol

The Wemby effect though. Kid is a real blessing.

[rascal]

Yes. This is why you don’t trade Castle. He can play the 2, and then the 1 when Fox loses a step and becomes a CP3 shooter / facilitator (ish). They’re each other’s insurance policies now and later.

You trade Vassell before you think about trading Castle.

[spurraider21]

1884409366071148788

[Jordan Jackson]

This smells a lot like Klutch and Sacto posturing about his extension, tbh. How many times does this same scenario have to play out. Rich Paul and Fox want the full bag, Kings don't want to give the full bag, Rich Paul says San Antonio, and then player and current team settle.

He’s going to get his money regardless.

He hired Klutch specifically to expedite an exit from the Kings. He is gone. It’s the worst kept secret in the world.

[DPG21920]

Does no one worry that Fox has been meh this year and that a lot of lineups in SAC without him actually have good numbers?

[CGD]

1884409366071148788

I think this was always the understanding between Pop-Chris.

[spurraider21]

Kings reddit seems to want a forward and a backup big, not another guard. They like Monk/Ellis/Carter as their primary guard rotation. Apparently the lineup of Monk/Ellis/Derozan/Murray/Sabonis has insane splits, something like a +48 NETRTG (I looked it up, it's only +23, but over a decent sample of 124 minutes. 124.8 ORTG and a 101.6 DRTG) so fans want to see more of that lineup.

Maybe the best way to make this happen is with a 3rd team that can deliver a forward to SAC. BKN immediately comes to mind with Cam Johnson and someone like Day'Ron Sharpe.

This works in the trade machine:

SAS Gets Fox

SAC Gets Cam, Sharpe

BKN Gets Keldon, Tre

Add in picks as necessary (probably one to SAC and two to BKN is my guess). You could also add on Blake (but not Bran) to BKN and this would still work.

There are lots of combinations that you could put together to make this work, as far as the cap goes.
https://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/02/frustrated.gif

[LkrFan]

1884388728400994737
cOLluSIoN :lol

[CGD]

https://x.com/ZachLowe_NBA/status/1884359594560086372

Cuts both ways tbh. Now that the player has basically stated he wants to come to Texas only, Spurs could have even better leverage this summer.

[100%duncan]

https://x.com/MaximeAubin1/status/1884388728400994737

How legit is this source? This means more than anything Klutch has put out in public

[Robz4000]

Does no one worry that Fox has been meh this year and that a lot of lineups in SAC without him actually have good numbers?

I do tbh. I'm on the wait until the off-season to make a deal train. That said, he's been dealing with a torn ligament in his thumb most of the season so that's been playing a role in his level of play.

[CGD]

Does no one worry that Fox has been meh this year and that a lot of lineups in SAC without him actually have good numbers?

Yes, it’s curbed my enthusiasm on him. But I still think that team’s problems all center on Sabonis’s limited defense, so hard to gauge.

[SpursGenius]

Why bring in Fox now. Lets tank for this great draft and get him for free in free agency next year. Unless its for Keldon, Collins, and Charlotte protected pick this year. Throw in a couple low second rounders.

[Robz4000]

There's also the DePression angle too; two ball-dominant players that are terrible defenders in the same unit is asking for disaster tbh.

[spurraider21]

I do tbh. I'm on the wait until the off-season to make a deal train. That said, he's been dealing with a torn ligament in his thumb most of the season so that's been playing a role in his level of play.
so you're saying we should trade for him, shut him down, land flagg, and proceed...

[mudyez]

I'm not opposed to the player Fox, but with all the drama, I'm not sure I want him.

Also I like the path we are on regarding a "big PG - good defenders at any position" path and while Fox is an ok defender, he doesn't fit that path.

[scott]

Does no one worry that Fox has been meh this year and that a lot of lineups in SAC without him actually have good numbers?

I wish we had a guy we could call "meh" because he's only putting up 25/5/6

Here's SAC lines this season. They've got the one lineup without him that I previously mentioned that is really killing it, but the two main Fox lineups are no slouch. Kings are 11th in the NBA in overall NETRTG (+2.6).

However, to your point, the Kings are +1.22 with Fox on and +4.80 with him off. I imagine this is a large part of why the Kings may view him expendable (there was talk of that being possible before today). But, I think it's important to remember that just because a team is better off without a player doesn't necessarily mean the player is bad - it just may not be the ideal fit. And it's not like the Kings are bad when Fox plays (I'd be really concerned if they were a net negative with him on the court and a positive with him off)

https://i.postimg.cc/MHhb6mP7/sac-lines.png

[CGD]

Why bring in Fox now. Lets tank for this great draft and get him for free in free agency next year

I mostly agree with this, but for proponents of adding Fox the big threat this summer is Houston.

[CGD]

I wish we had a guy we could call "meh" because he's only putting up 25/5/6

Here's SAC lines this season. They've got the one lineup without him that I previously mentioned that is really killing it, but the two main Fox lineups are no slouch. Kings are 11th in the NBA in overall NETRTG (+2.6).

However, to your point, the Kings are +1.22 with Fox on and +4.80 with him off. I imagine this is a large part of why the Kings may view him expendable (there was talk of that being possible before today). But, I think it's important to remember that just because a team is better off without a player doesn't necessarily mean the player is bad - it just may not be the ideal fit. And it's not like the Kings are bad when Fox plays (I'd be really concerned if they were a net negative with him on the court and a positive with him off)

https://i.postimg.cc/MHhb6mP7/sac-lines.png

What do your fancy charts look like for Fox out of curiosity?

[Robz4000]

so you're saying we should trade for him, shut him down, land flagg, and proceed...

:stirpot:

[scott]

What do your fancy charts look like for Fox out of curiosity?

https://i.postimg.cc/w38L8TMF/LEBRONComparison-Screenshot-9.png

[SpursGenius]

Whatever it ends up being if SA makes the move, I would really love the picks to be from years where we have multiple.

So one from 25, one from 27 and then SAC swap back (and maybe CHI pick too if necessary). That way whether it’s for drafting or more trades, SA still has firsts in every calendar year draft moving forward.


I wouldnt give up a single first for a dude who doesnt play defense and we can get for free in free agency in one year.

[100%duncan]

I wouldnt give up a single first for a dude who doesnt play defense and we can get for free in free agency in one year.

Living up to your username there

[scott]

What do your fancy charts look like for Fox out of curiosity?

https://i.postimg.cc/HWJNgZj7/fox-darko.png

[DPG21920]

I wish we had a guy we could call "meh" because he's only putting up 25/5/6

Here's SAC lines this season. They've got the one lineup without him that I previously mentioned that is really killing it, but the two main Fox lineups are no slouch. Kings are 11th in the NBA in overall NETRTG (+2.6).

However, to your point, the Kings are +1.22 with Fox on and +4.80 with him off. I imagine this is a large part of why the Kings may view him expendable (there was talk of that being possible before today). But, I think it's important to remember that just because a team is better off without a player doesn't necessarily mean the player is bad - it just may not be the ideal fit. And it's not like the Kings are bad when Fox plays (I'd be really concerned if they were a net negative with him on the court and a positive with him off)

https://i.postimg.cc/MHhb6mP7/sac-lines.png

For sure. He’s not bad, but when I say meh, I kind of mean in context of everyone calling him a star and being willing to give up 3-4 firsts and pay him 50M+ etc…just seems like a lot.

[scott]

For sure. He’s not bad, but when I say meh, I kind of mean in context of everyone calling him a star and being willing to give up 3-4 firsts and pay him 50M+ etc…just seems like a lot.

I'd say take a look at those DARKO and LEBRON charts. There's always a lot of context in the counting stats, but the advanced analytics usually tell a pretty good story.

[stnick2261]

Why bring in Fox now. Lets tank for this great draft and get him for free in free agency next year. Unless its for Keldon, Collins, and Charlotte protected pick this year. Throw in a couple low second rounders.


so you're saying we should trade for him, shut him down, land flagg, and proceed...

You get him on the team, take care of any surgeries needed, shut him down to recuperate, have a healthy Fox / Flagg / Wemby next year.

[Raven]

I wouldnt give up a single first for a dude who doesnt play defense and we can get for free in free agency in one year.
wouldn't really call fox no defence tbh..

[DPG21920]

I'd say take a look at those DARKO and LEBRON charts. There's always a lot of context in the counting stats, but the advanced analytics usually tell a pretty good story.

Ive seen them - and in previous years I think hes been a lot better too. His numbers look good this year, but it’s been off if you’ve watched him IMO. Could just be a soft quit though amongst other things.

I still am in the camp of caution is warranted. He’s not enough IMO that SA can be cavalier here. They will need every extra draft pick and cap space etc…to really add to the team more if they do this. So cost/details will matter and I won’t be mad if SA doesnt get him if SAC plays hardball.

But I also see the appeal and think its worth a *calculated* swing here (meaning no Wemby, Sochan or Castle and no more than 3 firsts with one of those firsts being a softer one)

[SpursBills]

If the spurs offload Vassell's salary and picks for Fox, then give him a max, do they have enough to make a run at KD in summer of 2026 or is that an impossibility?

[scott]

Ive seen them - and in previous years I think hes been a lot better too. His numbers look good this year, but it’s been off if you’ve watched him IMO. Could just be a soft quit though amongst other things.

I still am in the camp of caution is warranted. He’s not enough IMO that SA can be cavalier here. They will need every extra draft pick and cap space etc…to really add to the team more if they do this. So cost/details will matter and I won’t be mad if SA doesnt get him if SAC plays hardball.

But I also see the appeal and think its worth a *calculated* swing here (meaning no Wemby, Sochan or Castle and no more than 3 firsts with one of those firsts being a softer one)

We'll never really know at the end of the day if no deal comes to fruition, but I just hope we don't end up passing on Fox in order to preserve a pick that turns into another Malaki Branham.

[spursparker9]

Give up Vassell = Yes
Give up Castle = No

[daslicer]

I maybe one of the few in here who believes Castle is going to be a very good player down the line despite having a bad jump shot. He already impacts the game on both ends of the court and has ridiculous strength to finish in the paint and to back down guys which very few players possess. I'm not down with trading him. If the Spurs trade him then they will regret trading him a few years down the line when he becomes a star.

[scott]

If the spurs offload Vassell's salary and picks for Fox, then give him a max, do they have enough to make a run at KD in summer of 2026 or is that an impossibility?

Great question. We could definitely do if we didn't extend Fox but had an agreement to resign him using bird rights after we signed KD, but there would be risk there. Assuming we would want to avoid that (and immediately extend Fox this summer on a 30% max), then our summer 2026 cap table would look like this:

Cap: $170MM

Wemby - $16.8
Fox - $51
Keldon - $17.5
Castle - $10.0
Champ - $3.0
Sochan - $20 (est)
2025 Rookie - $8
2026 Rookie - $8

Total = $134.3
Cap Space: $35.7

If you can get off Keldon, you can take that up to $53.2. Anything you get Sochan extended for under $20 would add dollar for dollar to that space.

KD will be eligible for a starting salary of up to $59.5

Edit: as it currently stands, the Spurs only have $74MM committed in 2026-27 (Vassell, Wemby, Castle, Keldon, Champ), so up to $96MM of effective cap room. Obviously some of that will go away with draft pick holds, extending Sochan, etc.

[DPG21920]

We'll never really know at the end of the day if no deal comes to fruition, but I just hope we don't end up passing on Fox in order to preserve a pick that turns into another Malaki Branham.

I mean any pick can do that, so I get it, doesnt mean that you give up 4 firsts. Theres still value and risk/reward (as you know). What does your model suggest is fair value for Fox?

[scott]

I mean any pick can do that, so I get it, doesnt mean that you give up 4 firsts. Theres still value and risk/reward (as you know). What does your model suggest is fair value for Fox?

3 Unprotected FRP, 1 Unprotected Swap, 1 Highly Protected* FRP (71 Comp Points) is what my model spit out. (*Highly protected would be lotto protected, as an example)

So depending on how you value Vassell, not too far off from what I originally threw out (Vassell + CHI pick + SA25 + SA27 + rip up SAC swap). Of course I'm kind of counting on our own picks not being too great (assuming Fox is enough to get us in play-in this year and it being in the 20s in 2027), which is why I include them instead of the ATL picks.

[stnick2261]

3 Unprotected FRP, 1 Unprotected Swap, 1 Highly Protected* FRP (71 Comp Points) is what my model spit out. (*Highly protected would be lotto protected, as an example)

So depending on how you value Vassell, not too far off from what I originally threw out (Vassell + CHI pick + SA25 + SA27 + rip up SAC swap). Of course I'm kind of counting on our own picks not being too great (assuming Fox is enough to get us in play-in this year and it being in the 20s in 2027), which is why I include them instead of the ATL picks.

Since our SA25 and ATL25 are both in the lottery (currently) and side by side picks… do you think they would go for the worse of both picks (to hedge if one of them gets a lucky ping pong ball)?

[vy65]

Does no one worry that Fox has been meh this year and that a lot of lineups in SAC without him actually have good numbers?

Kinda this. I’m having pre-buyers remorse (that’s a thing, I’m sure) over losing Castle. I really think that kid could be special in a couple years time.

This is kinda why trading the 8th pick was stupid. Imagine if we had another rookie who we could pass off as “young talent.” Also why blowing the bran ham Wesley primo Luka picks was so bad.

[objective]

Newest Kings Beat podcast mentions that Fox has multiple health issues. A bad finger, plus a really bad pinky that needs surgery in the off-season, a messed up sprained thumb that might be worse than is public, plus a bad glute that has crept up his lower back.

Dude sounds like the walking wounded

[DPG21920]

3 Unprotected FRP, 1 Unprotected Swap, 1 Highly Protected* FRP (71 Comp Points) is what my model spit out. (*Highly protected would be lotto protected, as an example)

So depending on how you value Vassell, not too far off from what I originally threw out (Vassell + CHI pick + SA25 + SA27 + rip up SAC swap). Of course I'm kind of counting on our own picks not being too great (assuming Fox is enough to get us in play-in this year and it being in the 20s in 2027), which is why I include them instead of the ATL picks.

Got it - If it were worse of ATL/SA 25 and 27 I’d be good with that.

[ginobilized]

Just watched Vassell's post-practice interview and he really hesitated answering the question of whether or not he's going to the All-Star game to support Castle.
Wondering if the Fox trade news is affecting this. He might not be a Spur by that time.

It's so surreal to actually have a possible trade in the works. I'm setting myself up for expecting something more along the lines of adding Jalen Hood-Schifino.

[objective]

Newest Kings Beat podcast mentions that Fox has multiple health issues. A bad finger, plus a really bad pinky that needs surgery in the off-season, a messed up sprained thumb that might be worse than is public, plus a bad glute that has crept up his lower back.

Dude sounds like the walking wounded

LOL

THESE KINGS HOMERS

One of the hosts claims a fair return STARTS at Castle + Vassell + Sochan + 2 first round picks (at least 1 ATL if not both) + tearing up the Kings swap

Hoping B.Wright isn't that B.Wrong

[DPG21920]

I know it’s not popular to be anti big trades but this one makes me a little nervous. I would be pretty pissed off if Castle was in a deal for Fox.

[scott]

Since our SA25 and ATL25 are both in the lottery (currently) and side by side picks… do you think they would go for the worse of both picks (to hedge if one of them gets a lucky ping pong ball)?

Well, if I'm the Spurs that is certainly going to be my first suggestion. But if I am the Kings GM I'm asking for it to be the best of and I'm not accepting the worst of (I'd at least want the ATL pick, because a Spurs team with Fox would project to be better than ATL).

All I can really do is share my opinion on what I think is fair value. That's why I built my Trade Value Model, to try and get a "market price" for players based on objective data. With that said, GMs do terrible, stupid shit all the time. So I just hope we aren't the ones who do the dumb shit.

I also think that fans generally overvalue FRPs. This website has a great historical evaluation of the players picked from 1989-2008: https://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm The average outcome for players picked outside of the Top 10 is a role player, but a significant portion of the guys picked there are Deep Bench and Replacement level players. We talk about how Branham and Wesley haven't panned out, but that is actually a completely typical outcome of guys picked in the 20s.

Here is another representation of the typical outcomes of picks drafted in certain ranges:

https://tonyelhabr.github.io/nba-decision_analysis/images/nba-draft-pick-value-research/saurabh-rane-draft-pick-vorp-box-plot.jpeg

This is why I tend to err on the side of overpaying to get the guy you want now that we have Wemby. You only make a trade for a guy like Fox if you believe he will take you to the next level (a playoff team who will be picking in the 20s). If that is the case, what do I care if it costs me another sub-rotation level player?

Yes, there is a chance that pick may pan out to be great... but that's not proper decision analysis. We need to base decisions based on expected value, and trust the statistics. Just like there is a chance that you may win Powerball, it doesn't mean that playing Powerball is a good investment.

Sorry for the long winded response. I love chatting about this stuff. Asset valuation, especially in the context of trades and team building, is my favorite thing about the NBA and I've spent a lot of my free time thinking and researching this stuff :lol