Mountaintop Monastery of Dejounte Murray

[timtonymanu]

Keep working on that jumpshot, please.

[duncan2k5]

the past couple games he has been hitting that midange jumper...lets give the dude credit...smfh

[timtonymanu]

Wrong thread

[ElNono]

He played well in the 1st half tonight, nothing shiny, but controlled... then he got thrown in the doghouse for some reason...

[tholdren]

https://scontent-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26166163_2016886095193187_7563246668685096409_n.jp g?oh=d1b684920cc0bf5e4e24cbaaf5ca4fb3&oe=5AFD00CD

Well its irony. He sucks. Hes a failure. Hes dumb. Trade

[MultiTroll]

He played well in the 1st half tonight, nothing shiny, but controlled... then he got thrown in the doghouse for some reason...
https://images.vtheaterboxoffice.com/showwebimages/883.jpg (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjTjqH93LrYAhWLwFQKHeLkCPUQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vtheaterboxoffice.com%2Flas-vegas-shows%2Fcomedy-pet-theater&psig=AOvVaw2wQ-FXxD1H8Lnrr1zWRnQT&ust=1515032211107692)

[davidbowie]

i blame JILLY for his demise

[SAGirl]

He plays with a lot of energy and is disruptive defensively. He can't shoot at this point... not very well.

[spursistan]

948377121222688769
948379573846138880
I'm sold on Murray's defense... if the dude could only fuckin' shoot :depressed..

[SAGirl]

His hustle will help now that Danny is injured. I thought the energy he played with changed that game... despite some shots he missed, etc.

[tholdren]

948377121222688769
948379573846138880
I'm sold on Murray's defense... if the dude could only fuckin' shoot :depressed..

Plus minus is for retards

[MaNu4Tres]

948377121222688769
948379573846138880
I'm sold on Murray's defense... if the dude could only fuckin' shoot :depressed..

Give me elite defense every game over streaking shooting that is on once every 3 games w terrible D. Any. Day. Of. The. Week.

Patty is good for zero to 2 good shooting nights in a series, while being a scarecrow on defense 4 to 7 games in a series.

[bklynspursfan]

948377121222688769
948379573846138880
I'm sold on Murray's defense... if the dude could only fuckin' shoot :depressed..

Shoot and/or be smarter when he has the ball. I think he could be like Simmons last year, where in the right matchup he'll see a big jump in minutes vs the kind of time hes been seeing because of his defensive ability. But his decision making has to be on point in the playoffs

[CGD]

Watching him play, Murray has gotten appreciatively better since the start of this season. I feel like he’s even tightening his handle, which is one of my biggest gripes with him (dribbles too damn big). His nose for defense is great, his rebounding is unbelievable for a pg, and his reads on offense are improving (he had a sweet pass to LA in traffic today). The shot will come over the next few seasons.

The reality is that, while it feels like we have a logjam at guard now, next year could see the Spurs without Manu and Green. It’s good that the Murrays and Forbes of the world are taking nice strides this year, with White (and hopefully Paul) in the wings.

[tholdren]

Watching him play, Murray has gotten appreciatively better since the start of this season. I feel like he’s even tightening his handle, which is one of my biggest gripes with him (dribbles too damn big). His nose for defense is great, his rebounding is unbelievable for a pg, and his reads on offense are improving (he had a sweet pass to LA in traffic today). The shot will come over the next few seasons.

The reality is that, while it feels like we have a logjam at guard now, next year could see the Spurs without Manu and Green. It’s good that the Murrays and Forbes of the world are taking nice strides this year, with White (and hopefully Paul) in the wings.

Murray is all that is wrong with the nba. Started in early 2000 letting shitty high volume scoring outweigh skill. Seen nba scoring leaders shut down in local tournaments

[DPG21920]

Murray played very well today. He made an impact even without scoring. I think the issue is that even without Murray getting many minutes, SA is still a top 3 defensive team. Pop is searching for offense which Murray does not provide at all.

So even with TP/Mills and other guys that provide very little defense compared to Murray, SA is still an elite defensive team (and that is with Kawhi not playing anywhere close to his defensive potential).

Until Murray starts to do more on offense he will struggle to get minutes. Mills, even with his terrible defense and mediocre offense (to this point) he has more gravity on offense still. Pop is searching for offense and offense is very clearly the issue with this team.

[DAF86]

Kid, you have all the physical tools, just stop shooting jumpers like 20 foot floaters. Put your two goddamn hands on the fucking ball and shoot it with confidence.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Give me elite defense every game over streaking shooting that is on once every 3 games w terrible D. Any. Day. Of. The. Week.

Patty is good for zero to 2 good shooting nights in a series, while being a scarecrow on defense 4 to 7 games in a series.

He's not playing 1 on 1 though - his terrible shooting affects the spacing for everyone. Patty or Danny for example, even when not shooting well, have more gravity and everyone gets more room to operate. For as long as defenses treat Murray like Tony Allen he's not going to be a net positive player and thus will only get spot minutes. Neither defense nor rebounding are problems for the Spurs this season.

When he learns to shoot and to be more in control though, he'll be awesome. It's easy to see why they like him so much. It's just going to take time. He's already shown improvement from last season and it'll be a gradual process, not an instant leap.

[Jsmythe]

According to nba.com, Dejounte Murray is the leader in defensive rating of the entire NBA at 94.3:

http://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*15:GP*GE*5&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season (http://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*15:GP*GE*5&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)

He is also the leader in net rating of the Spurs at +9.5:


http://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*15:GP*GE*5&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612759

Some of that is probably due to him playing a lot against 2nd and 3rd string quality players. But it's still impressive. And recently it seems like the moment he enters the game, the Spurs immediately go on a run.

[MaNu4Tres]

He's not playing 1 on 1 though - his terrible shooting affects the spacing for everyone. Patty or Danny for example, even when not shooting well, have more gravity and everyone gets more room to operate. For as long as defenses treat Murray like Tony Allen he's not going to be a net positive player and thus will only get spot minutes. Neither defense nor rebounding are problems for the Spurs this season.

When he learns to shoot and to be more in control though, he'll be awesome. It's easy to see why they like him so much. It's just going to take time. He's already shown improvement from last season and it'll be a gradual process, not an instant leap.

Im quite aware its not 1 on 1. Ive only been watching the game for 26 years. Murray is not a net negstive.

Some more Murray stats.

On the floor in 675 mins: Spurs are a +9.5 PP/100.

Off the floor in 1149 mins: Spurs are a +0.2 PP/100. https://t.co/qxJjfFXLTC

And no he doesnt effect spacing depending where he is in the action on offense. For example, when Murray is the post entry passer on thr strong side of the floor, Murray usually cuts baseline strongside and rubs off LA or Kawhi in the post ..if the defender doesnt follow him all the way through, its usually a lay up for DeJounte..unless the defender follows him all the way to weakside corner 3 area. If the defender half asses or turns attention to strongside at anytime, Dejounte is pretty great at cutting to the basket.. Murray is also really effective responding to recovering defenses from the triple threat position off the catch and getting to the line. Mills is pretty easy to defend when he puts the ball on the floor in any circumstance responding to recovering defenses.

Sure, Mills in a vacuum provides good spacing, but most of the time with 2nd unit he's handling the ball in PnRs ( leads the team in PnR ball handling possessions). So he's not providing any spacing in this dynamic. Also, there's other ways Murray remains highly effective on offense where he creates gravity for the Spurs offensive arsenal ( elite offensive rebounding/crashing glass from weakside/ creating more possessions, getting out in transition and putting pressure on the defense sucking them into the paint in transition as he finds open 3 point shooters -- something he's becoming great at, great at cutting off ball when his defender isn't respecting him, great at getting to the line -- 5x better than Patty in this circumstance).

Start looking deeper into the game, and you can see why he's been the most impactful player the Spurs have right now at the PG position ( not saying much because the PG position has been thr biggest weakness on the team in years -- Mills & TP have been net negatives for years now ).

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Start looking deeper into the game, and you can see why he's been the most impactful player the Spurs have right now at the PG position ( not saying much because the PG position has been thr biggest weakness on the team in years -- Mills & TP have been net negatives for years now ).

I'm not disagreeing with most of what you've said. What I disagree with is that Murray isn't a situational player at this moment. All of his improved on/off and net ratings have come since he's been used mostly in bench line-ups. His net rating with the starters is significantly worse than Patty's, for example as per cleaningtheglass.com, and the effective line-ups for Murray have been with mostly bench units and specifically with Manu.

That said, due to constant fluctuation of minutes, roles and players this season, I'm not entirely convinced the individual net ratings have enough context so far to draw conclusions from. Last season's best net ratings were all bench players. I maintain that Murray's game doesn't mesh well with the starters at this point and that him being used as an energizer off the bench against other benches is the best way to utilize him until he develops a shot or is able to break down a defense by penetrating. Bench runs faster than the main unit and it suits him better.

[MaNu4Tres]

I'm not disagreeing with most of what you've said. What I disagree with is that Murray isn't a situational player at this moment. All of his improved on/off and net ratings have come since he's been used mostly in bench line-ups. His net rating with the starters is significantly worse than Patty's, for example as per cleaningtheglass.com, and the effective line-ups for Murray have been with mostly bench units and specifically with Manu.

That said, due to constant fluctuation of minutes, roles and players this season, I'm not entirely convinced the individual net ratings have enough context so far to draw conclusions from. Last season's best net ratings were all bench players. I maintain that Murray's game doesn't mesh well with the starters at this point and that him being used as an energizer off the bench against other benches is the best way to utilize him until he develops a shot or is able to break down a defense by penetrating. Bench runs faster than the main unit and it suits him better.

I'm not proposing or saying he should start yet ( I think that's coming eventually depending how much more he progresses). What I'm implying or saying is that he should be playing over Patty with the 2nd unit and having stints with LA/Kawhi lineups. On both sides of the court overall, he's more impactful than any point guard on the roster.

The only way the Spurs have a chance to reach a higher ceiling than years past is to throw Murray in the fire and give him a permanent role with hopes he keeps progressing by May and June. That's the only way Spurs have a chance to win. If Spurs continue to roll out TP and Patty as the main fixtures at the PG spot, it will be another predictable 2nd round exit. And some fans are fine with that because Tony and Patty give the Spurs a floor that gives the Spurs a 1st round win (yay).

[TheGreatYacht]

According to nba.com, Dejounte Murray is the leader in defensive rating of the entire NBA at 94.3:

http://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*15:GP*GE*5&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season (http://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*15:GP*GE*5&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)

He is also the leader in net rating of the Spurs at +9.5:

http://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*15:GP*GE*5&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612759

Some of that is probably due to him playing a lot against 2nd and 3rd string quality players. But it's still impressive. And recently it seems like the moment he enters the game, the Spurs immediately go on a run.
Great first post tbh

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I'm not proposing or saying he should start yet ( I think that's coming eventually depending how much more he progresses). What I'm implying or saying is that he should be playing over Patty with the 2nd unit and having stints with LA/Kawhi lineups. On both sides of the court overall, he's more impactful than any point guard on the roster.

The only way the Spurs have a chance to reach a higher ceiling than years past is to throw Murray in the fire and give him a permanent role with hopes he keeps progressing by May and June. That's the only way Spurs have a chance to win. If Spurs continue to roll out TP and Patty as the main fixtures at the PG spot, it will be another predictable 2nd round exit. And some fans are fine with that because Tony and Patty give the Spurs a floor that gives the Spurs a 1st round win (yay).

Then we're pretty much on the same page.

One interesting wrinkle is that Dejounte and Patty when played together have unreal positive numbers, as well as DJM-Patty-Manu line-ups, so I'm not sure Patty should be the one to be buried on the bench so that Murray gets more minutes.

[Chinook]

Yeah, we've been talking about having Murray play the two forever now. Glad to see people are finally catching up to the idea.

[MaNu4Tres]

When Green and Gay are in the rotation, there's not enough room for Mills and Murray. Spurs shouldn't play Manu at SF, Murray at SG to give Mills time over Gay or Bertans.

Give me Bertans shooting and versatile defense over Mills shooting and scarecrow defense.

Pau, Bertans, Gay, Manu, Murray >>

Pau, Gay, Manu, Murray, Mills.

[dabom]

Murray isn't better than Mills at this moment. Or this year. So stop thinking these lineups are any better with Murray instead of Mills, faggot. :lmao

[Seventyniner]

I'm not proposing or saying he should start yet ( I think that's coming eventually depending how much more he progresses). What I'm implying or saying is that he should be playing over Patty with the 2nd unit and having stints with LA/Kawhi lineups. On both sides of the court overall, he's more impactful than any point guard on the roster.

The only way the Spurs have a chance to reach a higher ceiling than years past is to throw Murray in the fire and give him a permanent role with hopes he keeps progressing by May and June. That's the only way Spurs have a chance to win. If Spurs continue to roll out TP and Patty as the main fixtures at the PG spot, it will be another predictable 2nd round exit. And some fans are fine with that because Tony and Patty give the Spurs a floor that gives the Spurs a 1st round win (yay).

Just like last year?

[dabom]

Just like last year?

:lol

[duncan2k5]

Im quite aware its not 1 on 1. Ive only been watching the game for 26 years. Murray is not a net negstive.

Some more Murray stats.

On the floor in 675 mins: Spurs are a +9.5 PP/100.

Off the floor in 1149 mins: Spurs are a +0.2 PP/100. https://t.co/qxJjfFXLTC

And no he doesnt effect spacing depending where he is in the action on offense. For example, when Murray is the post entry passer on thr strong side of the floor, Murray usually cuts baseline strongside and rubs off LA or Kawhi in the post ..if the defender doesnt follow him all the way through, its usually a lay up for DeJounte..unless the defender follows him all the way to weakside corner 3 area. If the defender half asses or turns attention to strongside at anytime, Dejounte is pretty great at cutting to the basket.. Murray is also really effective responding to recovering defenses from the triple threat position off the catch and getting to the line. Mills is pretty easy to defend when he puts the ball on the floor in any circumstance responding to recovering defenses.

Sure, Mills in a vacuum provides good spacing, but most of the time with 2nd unit he's handling the ball in PnRs ( leads the team in PnR ball handling possessions). So he's not providing any spacing in this dynamic. Also, there's other ways Murray remains highly effective on offense where he creates gravity for the Spurs offensive arsenal ( elite offensive rebounding/crashing glass from weakside/ creating more possessions, getting out in transition and putting pressure on the defense sucking them into the paint in transition as he finds open 3 point shooters -- something he's becoming great at, great at cutting off ball when his defender isn't respecting him, great at getting to the line -- 5x better than Patty in this circumstance).

Start looking deeper into the game, and you can see why he's been the most impactful player the Spurs have right now at the PG position ( not saying much because the PG position has been thr biggest weakness on the team in years -- Mills & TP have been net negatives for years now ).

These idiots seem to think anyone who can't shoot isn't a good NBA player... If the Greek Freak was on the Spurs, they would have wanted him benched

[Maddog]

According to nba.com, Dejounte Murray is the leader in defensive rating of the entire NBA at 94.3:

http://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*15:GP*GE*5&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season (http://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*15:GP*GE*5&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)

He is also the leader in net rating of the Spurs at +9.5:


http://stats.nba.com/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1&CF=MIN*GE*15:GP*GE*5&Season=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612759

Some of that is probably due to him playing a lot against 2nd and 3rd string quality players. But it's still impressive. And recently it seems like the moment he enters the game, the Spurs immediately go on a run.


He's not playing 1 on 1 though - his terrible shooting affects the spacing for everyone. Patty or Danny for example, even when not shooting well, have more gravity and everyone gets more room to operate. For as long as defenses treat Murray like Tony Allen he's not going to be a net positive player and thus will only get spot minutes. Neither defense nor rebounding are problems for the Spurs this season.

When he learns to shoot and to be more in control though, he'll be awesome. It's easy to see why they like him so much. It's just going to take time. He's already shown improvement from last season and it'll be a gradual process, not an instant leap.

He's also averaging 9.4 rebounds per 36 minutes!

[TD 21]

Watching him play, Murray has gotten appreciatively better since the start of this season. I feel like he’s even tightening his handle, which is one of my biggest gripes with him (dribbles too damn big). His nose for defense is great, his rebounding is unbelievable for a pg, and his reads on offense are improving (he had a sweet pass to LA in traffic today). The shot will come over the next few seasons.


The reality is that, while it feels like we have a logjam at guard now, next year could see the Spurs without Manu and Green. It’s good that the Murrays and Forbes of the world are taking nice strides this year, with White (and hopefully Paul) in the wings.

There's probably even less chance of Green being gone than their was Mills because unlike him, who'd have been collateral damage had Paul opted out and signed, there's no comparable on the wing who they're thought to have a chance to sign.

Ginobili is probably retiring, with the 2nd year likely serving as a de facto retirement gift.

Unless there's not enough external interest in Forbes to fetch and offer sheet and he's either content or has to settle for being a likely non rotation player, he's probably gone.

The back court succession plan is likely as follows: Murray inherits Ginobili's role until Parker retires, at which point Murray inherits Parker's role and White inherits Murray's role.



Murray played very well today. He made an impact even without scoring. I think the issue is that even without Murray getting many minutes, SA is still a top 3 defensive team. Pop is searching for offense which Murray does not provide at all.


So even with TP/Mills and other guys that provide very little defense compared to Murray, SA is still an elite defensive team (and that is with Kawhi not playing anywhere close to his defensive potential).

Until Murray starts to do more on offense he will struggle to get minutes. Mills, even with his terrible defense and mediocre offense (to this point) he has more gravity on offense still. Pop is searching for offense and offense is very clearly the issue with this team.



He's not playing 1 on 1 though - his terrible shooting affects the spacing for everyone. Patty or Danny for example, even when not shooting well, have more gravity and everyone gets more room to operate. For as long as defenses treat Murray like Tony Allen he's not going to be a net positive player and thus will only get spot minutes. Neither defense nor rebounding are problems for the Spurs this season.


When he learns to shoot and to be more in control though, he'll be awesome. It's easy to see why they like him so much. It's just going to take time. He's already shown improvement from last season and it'll be a gradual process, not an instant leap.

:tu

[tholdren]

He's also averaging 9.4 rebounds per 36 minutes!

Holy shit! Hes a pg and had 0 assists. Youre a retard

[duncan2k5]

Holy shit! Hes a pg and had 0 assists. Youre a retard

Every single point guard on our roster has had zero assist games before... Difference is that Murray is much younger and more experienced than them... Plus has a higher ceiling

[dbestpro]

With Pop loving small ball, Murray becomes an important player because of his rebounding ability. Mills is a luxury three point shooter that can be replaced by Forbes. I like Mills but he is a trade asset.

[SAGirl]

He had an opportunity to make a difference but between foul trouble and trouble scoring with him in the game it wasn’t his night.

[tholdren]

He had an opportunity to make a difference but between foul trouble and trouble scoring with him in the game it wasn’t his night.

Kyle gone be jealous

[spursistan]

961732492108509185

Goddamn :lol..

Even if Murray is unlikely to become a franchise/Top 10 PG, Spurs did absolutely nail the 2016 draft.

Easily their best pick since Parker (outside Kawhi, ofc) in this century..When all is said and done Dejounte will be at least a Top 7 player from that draft..

[MaNu4Tres]

Yeah, we've been talking about having Murray play the two forever now. Glad to see people are finally catching up to the idea.

Not really.

[MaNu4Tres]

Best option and most impactful point guard the Spurs have at the PG position. And it really isn't close. Been saying it for months now.

Just glad Pop made the permanent move.

Now if Pop can find a way to not play the Patty - Tony lineup. Get healthy Kawhi and Rudy.

[sasaint]

Not really.

Depends. Which will he likely develop (if at all) - NBA outside shot (both midrange and three) or NBA handles/vision?

[sasaint]

Best option and most impactful point guard the Spurs have at the PG position. And it really isn't close. Been saying it for months now.

Just glad Pop made the permanent move.

Now if Pop can find a way to not play the Patty - Tony lineup. Get healthy Kawhi and Rudy.

Pop will always play midget ball as long as those guys are on the team.

[MaNu4Tres]

Depends. Which will he likely develop (if at all) - NBA outside shot (both midrange and three) or NBA handles/vision?

Point guards come in all shapes, sizes and skill sets. This is 2018, not 1992. DeJounte is the Spurs labeled PG and plans are for him to be the PG moving forward for years to come, unless Spurs can get a star elite PG -- which isn't going to happen.

It was 4 months into his sophomore season, at 21 years old, for him to replace Tony Parker.

[apalisoc_9]

Man, kinda impressed with how murray has developed despite his extremely inconsistent playing time and role.

[sasaint]

Point guards come in all shapes, sizes and skill sets. This is 2018, not 1992. DeJounte is the Spurs labeled PG and plans are for him to be the PG moving forward for years to come, unless Spurs can get a star elite PG -- which isn't going to happen.

It was 4 months into his sophomore season, at 21 years old, for him to replace Tony Parker.

I like how he is progressing within his game. He will need to develop a decent outside shot in any case. I don't recall how many seasons it took Tony to develop a good outside shot, but he became a serious threat. That enabled him to be all the more effective in his drives to the hoop. I hope Dijon develops along those same lines.

[DAF86]

961732492108509185

Goddamn :lol..

Even if Murray is unlikely to become a franchise/Top 10 PG, Spurs did absolutely nail the 2016 draft.

Easily their best pick since Parker (outside Kawhi, ofc) in this century..When all is said and done Dejounte will be at least a Top 7 player from that draft..

Wasn't Brogdon picked after Murray?

[Ice009]

Any news on whether or not he's playing next game?

[Chinook]

Not really.

What kind of ass-hurt is this, bro?

[DAF86]

Yeah, we've been talking about having Murray play the two forever now. Glad to see people are finally catching up to the idea.

That's a terrible idea.

[Chinook]

That's a terrible idea.

Other than Forbes, Murray has the highest net rating when paired with Mills, so it still hasn't been a terrible idea.

[DAF86]

Other than Forbes, Murray has the highest net rating when paired with Mills, so it still hasn't been a terrible idea.

Taking Murray out of the PG position negates most of his strengths.

[Chinook]

Taking Murray out of the PG position negates most of his strengths.

Tell that to their net rating.

[DAF86]

Tell that to their net rating.

How big is the sample?

[Chinook]

How big is the sample?

243 minutes.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murrade01/lineups/2018

[pad300]

Other than Forbes, Murray has the highest net rating when paired with Mills, so it still hasn't been a terrible idea.

But Mills is a shooting guard pretending to be a point guard because he is too small to defend full sized SG's (and so is Forbes for that matter).

[Chinook]

But Mills is a shooting guard pretending to be a point guard because he is too small to defend full sized SG's (and so is Forbes for that matter).

The point of my comment (the one that got bumped for no reason other than butt-hurt) was because of a previous debate over whether Murray could play with smaller guards, like Mills or even Forbes. Murray "not playing the two" doesn't refer to his game, but rather the player next to him.

[DAF86]

243 minutes.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/murrade01/lineups/2018

So, not that big. Out of that bunch is the second with the least minutes. You also need to consider that most of those minutes are probably against the other team's second units. If Murray and Mills shared starters minutes they would probably do worst than Murray and Green.

[dabom]

243 is a good amount actually.

[MaNu4Tres]

What kind of ass-hurt is this, bro?

Tremendous

[SAGirl]

Depends. Which will he likely develop (if at all) - NBA outside shot (both midrange and three) or NBA handles/vision?
Think handles and vision are more likely. He gives more flashes of competence there that than he does shooting.

[SAGirl]

Man, kinda impressed with how murray has developed despite his extremely inconsistent playing time and role.
Absolutely. He mentioned in one interview that it was frustrating to not know when he would play, what lineups or minutes. Remember Pop starting Tony in his minutes limitations. Dijon would sit for the entire 3 Q and come in for 5 minutes in the 4th. That's tough.

[tholdren]

Other than Forbes, Murray has the highest net rating when paired with Mills, so it still hasn't been a terrible idea.

Net rating dont mean anything. Stick to whatever it is you do other than talent eval

[SAGirl]

964234014503657473

[tholdren]

964234014503657473

No shit.

[spursistan]

968139980487974912
967963518455697408

Murray will be an All-NBA defender, maybe even a DPOY candidate, if he learns all the ropes of team defense..He is already a solid one because he got the basic tools for the task..

[SAGirl]

True but the Cavs don't have all star guards or anything. Looking forward to the rest of the season. The teams coming up will test him. He does have the makings of a defensive star in a guard driven league.

[TD 21]

True but the Cavs don't have all star guards or anything. Looking forward to the rest of the season. The teams coming up will test him. He does have the makings of a defensive star in a guard driven league.

It's never been nor ever will be a guard driven league. It used to be a center driven league and it's now a wing driven league.

[MaNu4Tres]

It's never been nor ever will be a guard driven league. It used to be a center driven league and it's now a wing driven league.

Spurs need to get DeAndre Hunter in the draft. Kid is being overlooked but he has the tools to be a great 2 way wing -- he's 6'8 w/ a 7'2" wingspan.

Check him out when you got time. I like him more than I liked Jordan Bell last year.

[SAGirl]

968215136170381312

[tholdren]

968215136170381312

Lololololololololololololololo

Omg

Lolololololololololololololl

[duncan2k5]

True but the Cavs don't have all star guards or anything. Looking forward to the rest of the season. The teams coming up will test him. He does have the makings of a defensive star in a guard driven league.

So he did what he was supposed to do then... I don't get when ppl say things like "yea we blew out the magic, but they're the magic"... We are supposed to! It would be bad if we didn't! So him playing great on defense VS clevelands guards (remember we wanted Hill) shouldn't be downplayed

[Fireball]

Murray stuffs the stat sheet ... thats for sure ... sometimes with too many TOs as well, but I like him as a starting point guard.

[BackHome]

Damn MaNu you got an eye for talent. I really like that kid he has height, speed, length, and the right attitude would be a great pick. I am thinking he will probably though go mid first round. I like that he can play both SG and SF positions.

Three other players would love to draft would be.
1. Dzanan Musa - SF 6’9 - will fit in great in our half court offense
2. Robert Williams - PF/C 6’9 dude is a Beast the enforcer we always needed
3. Ömer Yurtseven - C/PF - a younger Gasol and much more athletic
4. Sviatoslav Mykhaliuk- Sg - 6’8 - kinda reminds me of Manu will be a early second round pick

As you can see no more freaking midget Pop/RC

Ps Spurs need to get off there ass this summer make some trades for good picks or fucking buy a first round from someone. Would love it if they could somehow manage to get another mid first and early second my picks would be
1. Robert Williams PF
2. Hunter SF/ SG
2nd round
1.Sv - SG

Tell me
What you think MaNu

[SAGirl]

So he did what he was supposed to do then... I don't get when ppl say things like "yea we blew out the magic, but they're the magic"... We are supposed to! It would be bad if we didn't! So him playing great on defense VS clevelands guards (remember we wanted Hill) shouldn't be downplayed
1st of all I didn't want Hill.
2nd He has gotten lit up by Denver's guards for example and has had some not so stellar games in the losing streak. Get off your high horse dude. He has been very impressive against the Cavs but need a consistency and I do look forward to see him compete against better guards bc the challenge will make him better.

[tholdren]

Murray stuffs the stat sheet ... thats for sure ... sometimes with too many TOs as well, but I like him as a starting point guard.

He cant do any pg things...

[duncan2k5]

1st of all I didn't want Hill.
2nd He has gotten lit up by Denver's guards for example and has had some not so stellar games in the losing streak. Get off your high horse dude. He has been very impressive against the Cavs but need a consistency and I do look forward to see him compete against better guards bc the challenge will make him better.

What's ur problem? I wasn't even attacking u... Sigh... I'm just saying, it's not fair to say a person who has a better than average game did it against lesser talent as a knock against them... He's SUPPOSED to have better games VS lesser talents (not lesser talents than him, but lesser than league average)...

Also EVERY great defender has been lit up... Why bring up those times as if to prove they aren't great defenders? Especially a 21 year old...? Point out areas where he can improve, but don't say "player X lit him up"...

And I didn't say YOU wanted George Hill... I have no idea who u want from who u don't want... But many ppl on here did... Stop being so defensive... Sheesh... It's like u have something personal against me

[LittleCriminal]

What's ur problem? I wasn't even attacking u... Sigh... I'm just saying, it's not fair to say a person who has a better than average game did it against lesser talent as a knock against them... He's SUPPOSED to have better games VS lesser talents (not lesser talents than him, but lesser than league average)...

Also EVERY great defender has been lit up... Why bring up those times as if to prove they aren't great defenders? Especially a 21 year old...? Point out areas where he can improve, but don't say "player X lit him up"...

And I didn't say YOU wanted George Hill... I have no idea who u want from who u don't want... But many ppl on here did... Stop being so defensive... Sheesh... It's like u have something personal against me

Lol don't waste ur unlimited posts on that troll sahurl...
that lezzer voted shit pile Kyle Anderson into the all star game this year for weeks.. lol

[MaNu4Tres]

1st of all I didn't want Hill.
2nd He has gotten lit up by Denver's guards for example and has had some not so stellar games in the losing streak. Get off your high horse dude. He has been very impressive against the Cavs but need a consistency and I do look forward to see him compete against better guards bc the challenge will make him better.

DeJounte averaged 12 points on 49% shooting, 6 boards, 4 assists 2 blocks and 2 steals the past 4 games. It might not be all star numbers but he's the best PG the Spurs have had since 2014 and its not close.

Not sure what you guys and girls expect here. The kid is 21 and he's had many great games against great competition (17, 11 and 5 vs. Westbrook; 16, 14, 6 vs. Lowry; and he's been putting up at least 12 & 5, 3 and 1 block/1 steal with the highest DEF RTG & DRPM among PGs in the NBA pretty much every time he starts). Spurs haven't had a 21 yr old this good since Kawhi, TP and TD -- no one else on the Spurs in the past 20 years, at this young of an age, has shown as much as DeJounte has and he's just barely scratching the surface.

[duncan2k5]

DeJounte averaged 12 points on 49% shooting, 6 boards, 4 assists 2 blocks and 2 steals the past 4 games. It might not be all star numbers but he's the best PG the Spurs have had since 2014 and its not close.

Not sure what you guys and girls expect here. The kid is 21 and he's had many great games against great competition (17, 11 and 5 vs. Westbrook; 16, 14, 6 vs. Lowry; and he's been putting up at least 12 & 5, 3 and 1 block/1 steal with the highest DEF RTG & DRPM among PGs in the NBA pretty much every time he starts). Spurs haven't had a 21 yr old this good since Kawhi, TP and TD -- no one else on the Spurs in the past 20 years, at this young of an age, has shown as much as DeJounte has and he's just barely scratching the surface.

Exactly!

[pad300]

DeJounte averaged 12 points on 49% shooting, 6 boards, 4 assists 2 blocks and 2 steals the past 4 games. It might not be all star numbers but he's the best PG the Spurs have had since 2014 and its not close.

Not sure what you guys and girls expect here. The kid is 21 and he's had many great games against great competition (17, 11 and 5 vs. Westbrook; 16, 14, 6 vs. Lowry; and he's been putting up at least 12 & 5, 3 and 1 block/1 steal with the highest DEF RTG & DRPM among PGs in the NBA pretty much every time he starts). Spurs haven't had a 21 yr old this good since Kawhi, TP and TD -- no one else on the Spurs in the past 20 years, at this young of an age, has shown as much as DeJounte has and he's just barely scratching the surface.
While I agree with the overall sentiment - the kid is only 21 and is learning and getting better and has a lot of potential - the bolded just isn't true. Compare to TP's playoffs last year (higher intensity, better competition, money time): 15.9 ppg on 52.6 FG%% , 3.1 assist, 2.5 reb, and 1.5 TOV. And Tony's much better at running the offence. I think dejounte can get there, but he hasn't yet.

[MaNu4Tres]

While I agree with the overall sentiment - the kid is only 21 and is learning and getting better and has a lot of potential - the bolded just isn't true. Compare to TP's playoffs last year (higher intensity, better competition, money time): 15.9 ppg on 52.6 FG%% , 3.1 assist, 2.5 reb, and 1.5 TOV. And Tony's much better at running the offence. I think dejounte can get there, but he hasn't yet.

That was a very small sample -- and a flash in a pan/ lightning in a bottle performance. Where was that in the two playoffs prior or the past three regular seasons?

[pad300]

That was a very small sample -- and a flash in a pan/ lightning in a bottle performance. Where was that in the two playoffs prior or the past three regular seasons?

Your going to sample size, really, and the sample size you were working off of was how big... What's that, only 40% of the one I pointed out. The description intellectually dishonest does come to mind...

[MaNu4Tres]

Your going to sample size, really, and the sample size you were working off of was how big... What's that, only 40% of the one I pointed out. The description intellectually dishonest does come to mind...

Youre*

And you're going off a 7 game sample. So yes, I'm talking about a very small sample size.

[robert1886]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nba/2018/2/28/17060344/san-antonio-spurs-dejounte-murrayhttps://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theringer.com/platform/amp/nba/2018/2/28/17060344/san-antonio-spurs-dejounte-murray

”He leads all starting guards in the NBA this season in total rebounding percentage (14.9), and he is in the top 10 in block percentage (1.8) and steal percentage (2.4). Murray is a point guard with the defensive profile of a big man. The other six players in the NBA with those per-minute numbers are centers (https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&year_min=2018&year_max=2018&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=mp_per_g_req&c1stat=trb_pct&c1comp=gt&c1val=14&c2stat=stl_pct&c2comp=gt&c2val=2&c3stat=blk_pct&c3comp=gt&c3val=1.5&order_by=ws)”

Only hoping he can continue to develop a decent shot . From a shooting mechanics perspective it has gotten better . Just needs to be more consistent with it . Kid has a bright future seems to have the drive.

[pad300]

Youre*

And you're going off a 7 game sample. So yes, I'm talking about a very small sample size.

Ah the last resort of someone who looks like a clown, attack the grammar, and ignore the substance... If you're going to do it, do it right "you're". It's actually a 8 game sample size, which is to say twice the 4 game sample size you used in your post...

[MaNu4Tres]

Ah the last resort of someone who looks like a clown, attack the grammar, and ignore the substance... If you're going to do it, do it right "you're". It's actually a 8 game sample size, which is to say twice the 4 game sample size you used in your post...

I actually used " every time he starts" in my post, and the recent starts since his inauguration as the starting point guard, he's getting even better. The DeJounte we've seen this year ( not past 4 games) > any PG Spurs have had in nearly 4 years.

[SAGirl]

Personally I wasn’t even criticizing Dijon which is why all this ripostes took me by surprise. He has had ImO a great season considering how he looked in summer league, considering at one point in the early season his TO and poor decisions sent him to the bench, considering he was passing up shots and shooting the one handed floater of his that’s not very accurate. He’s turned things around. He’s finishing with layups now, he’s shooting his jumpsuit rather than the floater which has improved his shooting %. He’s been very disruptive defensively, he is setting up teammates better. Etc he has improved by leaps and bounds but to mention I want to see him be even better and against good/elite competition is a comment that elicits the Dijon police... :lol

[monkeypunk]

I love this kid and his moxie, I just hope that Pop doesn't pull a Pop and pull him from the starting lineup in the playoffs. Ride or die with him!

I also think he's got an inherent passing ability that I hope he uses more as he gets more comfortable with the other players and his role. His shot is getting there but getting easy buckets for others makes the entire team click and he needs to be put in a position to fully embrace that dimension of his skillset.

[dabom]

Personally I wasn’t even criticizing Dijon which is why all this ripostes took me by surprise. He has had ImO a great season considering how he looked in summer league, considering at one point in the early season his TO and poor decisions sent him to the bench, considering he was passing up shots and shooting the one handed floater of his that’s not very accurate. He’s turned things around. He’s finishing with layups now, he’s shooting his jumpsuit rather than the floater which has improved his shooting %. He’s been very disruptive defensively, he is setting up teammates better. Etc he has improved by leaps and bounds but to mention one has to see him be even better and against good/elite competition is a comment that elicits the Dijon police... :lol

I remember your earlier takes. :throwup. :lol

Some of us can see it when some can't. :lol

[dabom]

Lol at all the other DM haters. :lmao

[SAGirl]

I remember your earlier takes. :throwup. :lol

Some of us can see it when some can't. :lol
I have always liked Dijon. I criticized a horrible performance in summer league which in hindsight perhaps things were going on behind closed doors bc he was in trade discussions. When I criticized his performance he wasn’t good. I am not even criticizing here which is why all these comments are ... :wakeup

[dabom]

The difference between a good poster and a bad poster is that the good poster can see the future or ability of that player, while a bad poster just regurgitates bland shitty stat takes.

[SAGirl]

The difference between a good poster and a bad poster is that the good poster can see the future or ability of that player, while a bad poster just regurgitates bland shitty stat takes.
:vomit: I don’t give a shit about your rankings dude. No one does.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Murray still has a long way to go before I'd consider him to be even a good point guard. However, if he could play against the Cavs every game he'd probably be a MVP candidate.

[sasaint]

If Dijon was included in trade discussions last summer, I wonder if he was also at the trade deadline, and more importantly, whether PATFO will consider him as expendable this coming post-season? Has he shown the development necessary for PATFO to truly regard him as the PG of the future or is he still on an extended audition? (I suppose too much depends on the playoffs, and it is premature to answer the question - but not too early to speculate on ST.) Given the current state of Spurs leadership, one thing I really like about Dijon is his desire to lead the team. If his ability ever matches that desire, he will be excellent.

I do wonder if the days of Spurs-for-life are over.

[rjv]

murray, i think, has really been improving significantly since he moved into the starting role. His defense has improved as has his pace, decision making and even his shooting. highly unlikely we see him in summer league play, but i fully expect him to be a solid starter for us next season.

[ECOV]

I'm grateful he's only 21 with a bunch of room to grow.

[TD 21]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/2/28/17060344/san-antonio-spurs-dejounte-murray



DeJounte averaged 12 points on 49% shooting, 6 boards, 4 assists 2 blocks and 2 steals the past 4 games. It might not be all star numbers but he's the best PG the Spurs have had since 2014 and its not close.

Not sure what you guys and girls expect here. The kid is 21 and he's had many great games against great competition (17, 11 and 5 vs. Westbrook; 16, 14, 6 vs. Lowry; and he's been putting up at least 12 & 5, 3 and 1 block/1 steal with the highest DEF RTG & DRPM among PGs in the NBA pretty much every time he starts). Spurs haven't had a 21 yr old this good since Kawhi, TP and TD -- no one else on the Spurs in the past 20 years, at this young of an age, has shown as much as DeJounte has and he's just barely scratching the surface.

The problem with Murray isn't his upside or even improvement, in a vacuum. It's what I've long said: In order to get back into championship contention, they need him to become a star and they need him to do so before Aldridge is no longer one. You can never be sure at Aldridge's age, but as we've discussed, he could conceivably maintain that status into his mid 30s, which would give Murray 2-3 more seasons.

We should know what Spurs and Leonard's answer to this question is this off season. Considering they conceivably have the pieces for a Walker trade, if we don't hear of them at least pursuing it, we'll know where they stand. If/when they offer Leonard the super max, if he signs without them trading for Walker, we'll know where he stands.

[Mr. Body]

He's way better than he was earlier in the year, when I doubted he could get the ball up the court without getting swiped. His handles were almost up to his armpits and he dribbled around like he'd never played organized ball before. Now, he's much more settled, seems to grasp the rotations much better, and as big as anything, is hitting mid-range shots.

That's a huge improvement over the last four months.

[SAGirl]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/2/28/17060344/san-antonio-spurs-dejounte-murray




The problem with Murray isn't his upside or even improvement, in a vacuum. It's what I've long said: In order to get back into championship contention, they need him to become a star and they need him to do so before Aldridge is no longer one. You can never be sure at Aldridge's age, but as we've discussed, he could conceivably maintain that status into his mid 30s, which would give Murray 2-3 more seasons.

We should know what Spurs and Leonard's answer to this question is this off season. Considering they conceivably have the pieces for a Walker trade, if we don't hear of them at least pursuing it, we'll know where they stand. If/when they offer Leonard the super max, if he signs without them trading for Walker, we'll know where he stands.
that's a great article that covers both his great assets defensively, and his current flaws offensively.
thanks for sharing that. :tu

[duncan2k5]

While I agree with the overall sentiment - the kid is only 21 and is learning and getting better and has a lot of potential - the bolded just isn't true. Compare to TP's playoffs last year (higher intensity, better competition, money time): 15.9 ppg on 52.6 FG%% , 3.1 assist, 2.5 reb, and 1.5 TOV. And Tony's much better at running the offence. I think dejounte can get there, but he hasn't yet.

U clearly forgot how wildly inconsistent Tony was on offense (including a game with zero stats)... And how horrendous he was on defense

[MaNu4Tres]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/2/28/17060344/san-antonio-spurs-dejounte-murray




The problem with Murray isn't his upside or even improvement, in a vacuum. It's what I've long said: In order to get back into championship contention, they need him to become a star and they need him to do so before Aldridge is no longer one. You can never be sure at Aldridge's age, but as we've discussed, he could conceivably maintain that status into his mid 30s, which would give Murray 2-3 more seasons.

We should know what Spurs and Leonard's answer to this question is this off season. Considering they conceivably have the pieces for a Walker trade, if we don't hear of them at least pursuing it, we'll know where they stand. If/when they offer Leonard the super max, if he signs without them trading for Walker, we'll know where he stands.

I think they can get back to championship contention without Murray needing to be an All star, only if Kawhi comes back to being himself again and the relationship gets resolved. With LA, Kyle, Green, Murray all making significant leaps this year -- that helps a lot. Warriors are more vulnerable than people think with their lack of depth. A lot of the role guys they relied on heavily have regressed this year (Liv, Iggy). If Spurs can't get it together mentally and physically and Warriors go on to play the Rockets, I like the Rockets in a 7 game series.

[exstatic]

I think they can get back to championship contention without Murray needing to be an All star, only if Kawhi comes back to being himself again and the relationship gets resolved. With LA, Kyle, Green, Murray all making significant leaps this year -- that helps a lot. Warriors are more vulnerable than people think with their lack of depth. A lot of the role guys they relied on heavily have regressed this year (Liv, Iggy). If Spurs can't get it together mentally and physically and Warriors go on to play the Rockets, I like the Rockets in a 7 game series.
I wouldn’t count on Green being here next year. When you fire your long time agent, and hire rocnation, you’re looking to get paid. PATFO were surprised last time that he gave them the discount that he did. He’s not going to do that again.

[SAGirl]

I think they can get back to championship contention without Murray needing to be an All star, only if Kawhi comes back to being himself again and the relationship gets resolved. With LA, Kyle, Green, Murray all making significant leaps this year -- that helps a lot. Warriors are more vulnerable than people think with their lack of depth. A lot of the role guys they relied on heavily have regressed this year (Liv, Iggy). If Spurs can't get it together mentally and physically and Warriors go on to play the Rockets, I like the Rockets in a 7 game series.
Well said
968255572880625665
That stat is amazing considering this team has had multiple all stars and HOF players share the court over the many years, and it's not just for the Spurs, that's for the entire league ever.

Sure something like a single TO can screw up the stat from any pairing you can refer to, but that's a sign of great playmaking, BBIQ, unselfish play and defensive effort. I hope Kawhi is encouraged by the development from his teammates. That has to motivate him to come back more than anything else.

[emanueldavidginobili]

On a lighter note the kid is looking better and better and that three he hit was huge.

[tholdren]

On a lighter note the kid is looking better and better and that three he hit was huge.

Lol mute

[objective]

His finishing around the rim still isn't great but it looks like to me eyes he's improving

[Ice009]

At least the kid has the balsl to not be afraid of taking and making an open 3 point shot with the game on the line.

[Mikeanaro]

He sucks, missed 2 important passes at the most important plays.

[duncan2k5]

He sucks, missed 2 important passes at the most important plays.

LOL...

[Mikeanaro]

LOL...
What? do you think he is the new face of the NBA or something?

[SAGirl]

969078040633511936
At least someone is pissed off that they have been losing games. Damn.

[MaNu4Tres]

969078040633511936
At least someone is pissed off that they have been losing games. Damn.

Id be frustrated too trying to go to war with Patty getting 37 minutes tbh .

[SPURt]

969078040633511936
At least someone is pissed off that they have been losing games. Damn.
I was hoping after this game he'd walk straight over to Kawhi and slap the autism out of him. Then we'd all know we have a future leader on our hands.

[acoelho1]

Thank goodness spurstalk has no say in talent evaluation for the Spurs. Dejounte has star potential and I think he will get there based on what I've seen so far from him these past 2 years. He's tough as nails and has no fear of the moment. His physical tools are impressive.. that speed and length will be a problem for our opponents. However, his most important attribute is he wants to be great and combine that with him being a gym rat, it's just a matter of time in my opinion. His jumper already looks better than earlier in the year and he has shown better control of the offense. Give it some time and remember those on this forum who said Kawhi would never be a star or be a number one offensive option or he can't dribble through traffic.

[TheGreatYacht]

Thank goodness spurstalk has no say in talent evaluation for the Spurs. Dejounte has star potential and I think he will get there based on what I've seen so far from him these past 2 years. He's tough as nails and has no fear of the moment. His physical tools are impressive.. that speed and length will be a problem for our opponents. However, his most important attribute is he wants to be great and combine that with him being a gym rat, it's just a matter of time in my opinion. His jumper already looks better than earlier in the year and he has shown better control of the offense. Give it some time and remember those on this forum who said Kawhi would never be a star or be a number one offensive option or he can't dribble through traffic.
Yeah thank goodness PATFUCK didn't listen to us and paid Gasol & Fatty. Thank goodness they passed up on multiple players to draft a 24yr old 5th string PG. Thank goodness they ignored us last year at the deadline and brought in Joel Anthony. Thank goodness they're about to pay Parker, Green, and Fathead this offseason. Thank goodness Kawhi won't sign the supermax and will crip walk to LA while we have culture.

[SAGirl]

Id be frustrated too trying to go to war with Patty getting 37 minutes tbh .
Breaks my heart for Murray. He's hungry.
Frankly I want the team to make the playoffs even if its as a low seed to get a whooping by GSW and/or the Rockettes bc I want the young guys to get the experience and to feed their hunger. One would think after how this season has gone, (as well as playoff performances for the last two years) that Paddy wouldn't be as high on the totem pole as he apparently is.

[duncan2k5]

If DJ was playing as bad at Patty, he wouldnt be getting much minutes...nevertheless heavy minutes while starting, and coming in during crunch time...dude is living off a reputation he barely had...when he was 50 pounds lighter...

We need to get rid of the short, unathletic, one dimensional guys on the team...

[rjv]

if the whole kawhi thing can get figured out and he is healthy going forward (both big uncertainties) the growth of dejounte would be a major asset to this team and would keep the spurs relevant.

[sasaint]

If DJ was playing as bad at Patty, he wouldnt be getting much minutes...nevertheless heavy minutes while starting, and coming in during crunch time...dude is living off a reputation he barely had...when he was 50 pounds lighter...

We need to get rid of the short, unathletic, one dimensional guys on the team...


:pop: No. Every one of them has a high BBIQ.

[SAGirl]

More from Murray... team's future leader?
969073555056087040

I'd say he has the leadership mentality right now... sounds legit upset with TO and mistakes on defense... :wow:wow:wow

going to be upset at some vets at this rate... :downspin:

[sasaint]

969078040633511936
At least someone is pissed off that they have been losing games. Damn.

Dijon and all of ST. :lol

He definitely has the right mentality. If his skills catch up to the mentality, he will be excellent.

[SAGirl]

Dijon and all of ST. :lol
:rollin:lmao

I love that he has the guts to say stuff like this. I can't recall a quote of this kind from Kiwi, ever... maybe my memory is faulty.
http://www.kens5.com/video/sports/nba/spurs/dejounte-murray-on-wednesday-nights-loss-to-the-pelicans/273-8023180

[sasaint]

:rollin:lmao

I love that he has the guts to say stuff like this. I can't recall a quote of this kind from Kiwi, ever... maybe my memory is faulty.
http://www.kens5.com/video/sports/nba/spurs/dejounte-murray-on-wednesday-nights-loss-to-the-pelicans/273-8023180

Next season he could be pretty special.

[SAGirl]

Actually to hear him talk about how strong his desire is to win... makes me more upset that they are losing... what a conundrum.

[sasaint]

Actually to hear him talk about how strong his desire is to win... makes me more upset that they are losing... what a conundrum.

Actually this is fairly analogous to the '96-97 season. DRob was shelved for the latter stages of the season, and we landed Timmy in the draft. We just had an even worse team with a worse record then. But this late in the season, I think we should do what we can to get a high pick. We have too much chaff and not enough wheat on the current roster. Winnowing is absolutely necessary. And we need some real NBA players instead.

I am flummoxed by DWhite's treatment. We have way too many PGs and PG prospects. Hopefully that will change next season. What that means for Tony, Patty and DWhite, I shudder to think. More poor choices incoming I suspect.

I liked Blossomgame in college, and I have been encouraged by what little I have seen of him in Austin. I hope he can contribute next season.

But we still need more NBA-caliber athletes.

[SAGirl]

Actually this is fairly analogous to the '96-97 season. DRob was shelved for the latter stages of the season, and we landed Timmy in the draft. We just had an even worse team with a worse record then. But this late in the season, I think we should do what we can to get a high pick. We have too much chaff and not enough wheat on the current roster. Winnowing is absolutely necessary. And we need some real NBA players instead.

I am flummoxed by DWhite's treatment. We have way too many PGs and PG prospects. Hopefully that will change next season. What that means for Tony, Patty and DWhite, I shudder to think. More poor choices incoming I suspect.

I liked Blossomgame in college, and I have been encouraged by what little I have seen of him in Austin. I hope he can contribute next season.

But we still need more NBA-caliber athletes.

White is clearly getting the rook treatment that DJ got last season. i am not saying he's a star or anything, but White has shown competent play for a roleplayer in the few minutes I have seen him. He certainly hasn't had 5 TO in a game yet. He played 27 minutes on the road against GSW and this is what he did:


Derrick White (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/whitede01.html)
27:41
3
8
.375
0
2
.000
5
6
.833
1
6
7
2
1
0
0
1
11




Didn't exactly have a good game shooting the ball but he drew fouls... resulting on 7 rebounds, 2 assists 1 steals and 11 points.

Jeff McDonald is with you about the tank:
969267667310989313

there's not going to be a Timmy D resulting from this season... but we shall see what happens. I still prefer they make they playoffs, but if they don't I hope they get someone who can help in this draft... has to be someone with size... hopefully.

[MaNu4Tres]

White is clearly getting the rook treatment that DJ got last season. i am not saying he's a star or anything, but White has shown competent play for a roleplayer in the few minutes I have seen him. He certainly hasn't had 5 TO in a game yet. He played 27 minutes on the road against GSW and this is what he did:


White is all around the better player than Patty and Tony right now. He's just getting the bs rookie treatment he gave Splitter, Murray, and Simmons. He'll be a solid two way guard off the bench. I see him as Manu's replacement if he hangs it up after this year.

In the upcoming draft and offseason, Spurs need to move on from Tony or Patty or both, shop Gasol around, and draft DeAndre Hunter, Zhaire Smith or Mitchell Robinson.

[sasaint]

White is clearly getting the rook treatment that DJ got last season. i am not saying he's a star or anything, but White has shown competent play for a roleplayer in the few minutes I have seen him. He certainly hasn't had 5 TO in a game yet. He played 27 minutes on the road against GSW and this is what he did:


Derrick White (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/whitede01.html)
27:41
3
8
.375
0
2
.000
5
6
.833
1
6
7
2
1
0
0
1
11




Didn't exactly have a good game shooting the ball but he drew fouls... resulting on 7 rebounds, 2 assists 1 steals and 11 points.

Jeff McDonald is with you about the tank:
969267667310989313

there's not going to be a Timmy D resulting from this season... but we shall see what happens. I still prefer they make they playoffs, but if they don't I hope they get someone who can help in this draft... has to be someone with size... hopefully.

:pop: No. Size would disrupt my midget ball strategy.

[sasaint]

White is all around the better player than Patty and Tony right now. He's just getting the bs rookie treatment he gave Splitter, Murray, and Simmons. He'll be a solid two way guard off the bench. I see him as Manu's replacement if he hangs it up after this year.

In the upcoming draft and offseason, Spurs need to move on from Tony or Patty or both, shop Gasol around, and draft DeAndre Hunter, Zhaire Smith or Mitchell Robinson.

Can you honestly see Pop making all of those roster changes?

[SAGirl]

Can you honestly see Pop making all of those roster changes?
All I know is, I saw them shop Danny, but hold on to Tony and Paddy tight, for dear life.... :lol

[sasaint]

All I know is, I saw them shop Danny, but hold on to Tony and Paddy tight, for dear life.... :lol

Further evidence of PATFO's great judgment.

[MaNu4Tres]

All I know is, I saw them shop Danny, but hold on to Tony and Paddy tight, for dear life.... :lol

We don't know that for sure though.

Marc Stein leaked the info regarding Clips/Spurs rumors -- but it was obvious the info was coming from the Clippers ( Stein has no ties w/ SA). My logic behind that info is that Clips purposefully leaked their high end asking price ( Danny Green +1st) to Stein to try to induce better offers from other teams hours before deadline was up. Spurs obviously said no though to the Clippers' high asking price.

I honestly think Patty was the guy Spurs preferred to move during the deadline because they targeted players on expired deals w/ Bradley/Belinelli. Outside of Green and Gay, Mills' salary is the only other salary that made sense -- plus he played at a position where there's redundancy.

I honestly think they love Patty, but a big reason why we are seeing him play 35 mpg now is to boost up his value heading into the summer. You can't honestly sit there and think they are playing him this many minutes because he's good, can you? Any person with a brain can see what a mistake it was to give him that deal, and how they should try to get rid of it to surround Kawhi, Murray, LA w/ better talent in upcoming summers.

[SAGirl]

We don't know that for sure though.

Marc Stein leaked the info regarding Clips/Spurs rumors -- but it was obvious the info was coming from the Clippers ( Stein has no ties w/ SA). My logic behind that info is that Clips purposefully leaked their high end asking price ( Danny Green +1st) to Stein to try to induce better offers from other teams hours before deadline was up. Spurs obviously said no though to the Clippers' high asking price.

I honestly think Patty was the guy Spurs preferred to move during the deadline because they targeted players on expired deals w/ Bradley/Belinelli. Outside of Green and Gay, Mills' salary is the only other salary that made sense -- plus he played at a position where there's redundancy.

I honestly think they love Patty, but a big reason why we are seeing him play 35 mpg now is to boost up his value heading into the summer. You can't honestly sit there and think they are playing him this many minutes because he's good, can you? Any person with a brain can see what a mistake it was to give him that deal, and how they should try to get rid of it to surround Kawhi, Murray, LA w/ better talent in upcoming summers.
I hope you are right. I don't see a purpose to their current actions. I was partly being cheeky with my comment. We have no rumor whatsoever Paddy was in trade talks, so it's easy to jump to a conclusion. But I do hope wholeheartedly you are right.

[TD 21]

I think they can get back to championship contention without Murray needing to be an All star, only if Kawhi comes back to being himself again and the relationship gets resolved. With LA, Kyle, Green, Murray all making significant leaps this year -- that helps a lot. Warriors are more vulnerable than people think with their lack of depth. A lot of the role guys they relied on heavily have regressed this year (Liv, Iggy). If Spurs can't get it together mentally and physically and Warriors go on to play the Rockets, I like the Rockets in a 7 game series.

Murray might not literally need to be an All-Star, but he needs to at least be of that caliber and relatively soon. Beyond that, is the archaic style. You just can't win a championship in this era with a heavy reliance on posts ups and mid rangers and so little 3-point shooting (2 of the high volume, above average ones, Bertans and Forbes, wouldn't be in a healthy rotation).

Agree that Warriors are more vulnerable this season, but I still don't buy that a healthy Spurs can beat them in a series and they probably can't beat Rockets, either.

Spurs' player development is always praised, but they've fallen behind the times. Raptors obviously don't have the same pedigree, but they've been one of the better teams the previous 4 seasons, yet were able to convince a bunch of established players to alter their games and because of that and their drafting/developing, they've gone to another level.

Can't see Mills' uptick in minutes having to do with shopping him. He's a known commodity and Spurs' mystique is gone. No one is going to be fooled into thinking him randomly playing an increased role on a banged up team being meaningful.

[sasaint]

Can't see Mills' uptick in minutes having to do with shopping him. He's a known commodity and Spurs' mystique is gone. No one is going to be fooled into thinking him randomly playing an increased role on a banged up team being meaningful.

[spurraider21]

Murray is #1 among all point guards in DRPM
Green is #3 among shooting guards
Kyle Anderson is #1 among small forwards (Kawhi is 6th in his limited time)

LMA has graded out surprisingly poorly, whereas pau is #13 among centers

[Ice009]

For the people thinking Mills is getting that much court time to showcase him for trade, how stupid do you guys think other teams are?

The only team/s I could see taking him are teams that want to tank. They could be watching thinking, wow, he'd be perfect to lead a tank job. lol, no-one who's trying to win games would want him.

Spurs fucked up big time. It could cost them everything.

[sasaint]

For Mills getting that much court time, how stupid do you guys think other teams are?

The only team/s I could see taking him are teams that want to tank. They could be watching thinking, wow, he'd be perfect to lead a tank job. lol, no-one who's trying to win games would want him.

Spurs fucked up big time. It could cost them everything.

It will cost them a first round draft pick or tie their hands for 3 years.

[tholdren]

Murray is #1 among all point guards in DRPM
Green is #3 among shooting guards
Kyle Anderson is #1 among small forwards (Kawhi is 6th in his limited time)

LMA has graded out surprisingly poorly, whereas pau is #13 among centers

Lol

[cd021]

Murray is #1 among all point guards in DRPM
Green is #3 among shooting guards
Kyle Anderson is #1 among small forwards (Kawhi is 6th in his limited time)

LMA has graded out surprisingly poorly, whereas pau is #13 among centers


First 3 makes plenty of sense tbh and Gasol has been significantly better than the turn style he was last season but Aldridge being low is surprising

[cd021]

We don't know that for sure though.

Marc Stein leaked the info regarding Clips/Spurs rumors -- but it was obvious the info was coming from the Clippers ( Stein has no ties w/ SA). My logic behind that info is that Clips purposefully leaked their high end asking price ( Danny Green +1st) to Stein to try to induce better offers from other teams hours before deadline was up. Spurs obviously said no though to the Clippers' high asking price.

I honestly think Patty was the guy Spurs preferred to move during the deadline because they targeted players on expired deals w/ Bradley/Belinelli. Outside of Green and Gay, Mills' salary is the only other salary that made sense -- plus he played at a position where there's redundancy.

I honestly think they love Patty, but a big reason why we are seeing him play 35 mpg now is to boost up his value heading into the summer. You can't honestly sit there and think they are playing him this many minutes because he's good, can you? Any person with a brain can see what a mistake it was to give him that deal, and how they should try to get rid of it to surround Kawhi, Murray, LA w/ better talent in upcoming summers.


I hope you are right. I don't see a purpose to their current actions. I was partly being cheeky with my comment. We have no rumor whatsoever Paddy was in trade talks, so it's easy to jump to a conclusion. But I do hope wholeheartedly you are right.

Stein said on Dunc'd On (after the deadline) that Green was the name that he heard, and that the Spurs weren't interested in giving up Green and a pick for Bradley.

He might have a heard counter offer from the Clippers with Green in place of Mills; technically what he reported - the Spurs and Clippers are discussing a deal for Avery Bradley in exchange for a 1st an Green was accurate even though the Spurs never were going to give up Green and a 1st for an inferior player.

[Dverde]

Stein said on Dunc'd On (after the deadline) that Green was the name that he heard, and that the Spurs weren't interested in giving up Green and a pick for Bradley.

He might have a heard counter offer from the Clippers with Green in place of Mills; technically what he reported - the Spurs and Clippers are discussing a deal for Avery Bradley in exchange for a 1st an Green was accurate even though the Spurs never were going to give up Green and a 1st for an inferior player.

I wouldn’t call Bradley inferior to Green. I think most would want Bradley with all things being equal. With his looming contract demands I see why the Spurs would balk at the draft pick request.

[Chinook]

I wouldn’t call Bradley inferior to Green.

I would, because he's been worse than Green at everything his whole career but having Youtube highlights.

[cd021]

It will cost them a first round draft pick or tie their hands for 3 years.

Pretty much,yeah. Maybe his deal has value in year four as a expiring but the Spurs don't normally move players on expiring deals.

If Kawhi takes the super max, then Kawhi, LMA, and Mills (the new big three :lol) will be making a combined $73.5 million in 2019-2020. Spurs could easily blow past the $131 estimated luxury tax number if the choose to resign Green, Gay, Bertans, and Anderson to multiyear deals. Murray will also an RFA that off season and his agent is Rich Paul, who is notorious trying to get his players max contracts (i.e. Thompson and Bledsoe)

[cd021]

I wouldn’t call Bradley inferior to Green. I think most would want Bradley with all things being equal. With his looming contract demands I see why the Spurs would balk at the draft pick request.
Defensively alone, Green is just a better player. He is both capable and comfortable guarding quick PGs, SGs, and can also guard bigger wing as well. Bradley can really only guard 1's and there is some question as to how good he is in team defense; also Bradley apparently wants something like $20 million a year, which isn't happening.

[Chinook]

Defensively alone, Green is just a better player. He is both capable and comfortable guarding quick PGs, SGs, and can also guard bigger wing as well. Bradley can really only guard 1's and there is some question as to how good he is in team defense; also Bradley apparently wants something like $20 million a year, which isn't happening.

Green's also a better shooter, passer and rebounder.

Whether your're talking about this year: https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Danny+Green&player_id1_select=Danny+Green&player_id1=greenda02&y1=2018&player_id2_hint=Avery+Bradley&player_id2_select=Avery+Bradley&player_id2=bradlav01&y2=2018

Or over their careers: https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Danny+Green&player_id1_select=Danny+Green&player_id1=greenda02&y1=2018&player_id2_hint=Avery+Bradley&player_id2_select=Avery+Bradley&player_id2=bradlav01&y2=2018

[MaNu4Tres]

Green's also a better shooter, passer and rebounder.

Whether your're talking about this year: https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Danny+Green&player_id1_select=Danny+Green&player_id1=greenda02&y1=2018&player_id2_hint=Avery+Bradley&player_id2_select=Avery+Bradley&player_id2=bradlav01&y2=2018

Or over their careers: https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Danny+Green&player_id1_select=Danny+Green&player_id1=greenda02&y1=2018&player_id2_hint=Avery+Bradley&player_id2_select=Avery+Bradley&player_id2=bradlav01&y2=2018

Green > Bradley > White > Patty

[Snaq O'Meal]

Bradley is just another midget. And we all know what the Warriors regularly do to the anuses of midgets.

[SAGirl]

Id be frustrated too trying to go to war with Patty getting 37 minutes tbh .

969722388735766530

[Chinook]

Lol Baynes

[SAGirl]

Lol Baynes
the highlight is Paddy being among the 5 worst in the entire league. I wouldn't dispute it. I think there are worse but he plays so many minutes and is trusted in key moments...

[SAGirl]

Murray talking like the Spurs leader. I can’t believe no one posted this b4.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/amp/Dejounte-Murray-Spurs-not-missing-the-playoffs-12753872.php

[sasaint]

Murray talking like the Spurs leader. I can’t believe no one posted this b4.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/amp/Dejounte-Murray-Spurs-not-missing-the-playoffs-12753872.php

He has been talking the talk since last season. I like that about him. Thanks for the post.

[picnroll]

http://hoopshype.com/2018/03/17/gregg-popovichs-dejounte-murray-gamble-has-yet-to-pay-dividends/

[Slippy]

Interesting read. Thanks for posting. Pretty much what lot of us been saying.

[tholdren]

Interesting read. Thanks for posting. Pretty much what lot of us been saying.

Pretty much what i have been saying. Many, if not all, of theses bums need some article before they believe it. I do think murray has touch on a finish, and the article says he doesnt.

In summation hes a shitty pg in an overrated league that you bums believe is the best. You all probably think actresses look the same in person as in the movies. Just dumb

[SAGirl]

http://hoopshype.com/2018/03/17/gregg-popovichs-dejounte-murray-gamble-has-yet-to-pay-dividends/
Good article. Work still to do...

[sasaint]

http://hoopshype.com/2018/03/17/gregg-popovichs-dejounte-murray-gamble-has-yet-to-pay-dividends/

Many thanks for sharing an article with some solid data.

[Chinook]

http://hoopshype.com/2018/03/17/gregg-popovichs-dejounte-murray-gamble-has-yet-to-pay-dividends/

Obvious to anyone with eyes Murray hasn't improved the team as the starting PG. He could get there, but he hasn't been worth the upheaval yet.

[tholdren]

Obvious to anyone with eyes Murray hasn't improved the team as the starting PG. He could get there, but he hasn't been worth the upheaval yet.

Bwahahaha says the guy who chooses adv stats over eyeballs. Plus minus bwahahahs

[Chinook]

Bwahahaha says the guy who chooses adv stats over eyeballs. Plus minus bwahahahs

Plus - minus is not an advanced stat

[tholdren]

Plus - minus is not an advanced stat

Did not say it was

[Chinook]

Did not say it was

Tried to

[tholdren]

Tried to

No. It was just another innapropriate measure you try to link to ind performance.... hence my bringing it up. But if it makes you feel better, think what you want. Fact is, youve inappropriately valued and devalued a players true worth by giving them adv stat or simple box score stat to prove your point. Ironically, you disappear during actual in game performance

[Chinook]

No. It was just another innapropriate measure you try to link to ind performance.... hence my bringing it up. But if it makes you feel better, think what you want. Fact is, youve inappropriately valued and devalued a players true worth by giving them adv stat or simple box score stat to prove your point. Ironically, you disappear during actual in game performance

Disappear?

[Ice009]

At least Murray came back and played after a sprained ankle.

Did they ever say the extent of the injury he got last game? Was it an actual sprain or a tweak?

[BD24]

Theoldren is either a troll or one of the shittiest posters on the site.

I'm convinced he is probably autistic

[tholdren]

Theoldren is either a troll or one of the shittiest posters on the site.

I'm convinced he is probably autistic

Lol you came on here for that lame post? You are mad. Mad mad mad

[MaNu4Tres]

At least Murray came back and played after a sprained ankle.

Did they ever say the extent of the injury he got last game? Was it an actual sprain or a tweak?

Not sure, but I don't know if anyone else noticed but, Pop had him guard 6'10 Bjelica in 1st/3rd quarters. Pretty dumb way to utilize him if you ask me.

[MI21]

Can't wait until this guy get's the confidence / strength to turn the corner harder in the half court - he is showing me some real open court pace I didn't know he had, if he can learn to add some pace into his game in the half court and attack the rotating / recovering D at his size and with his length, that is going to be a real issue for the opposition.

[TD 21]

Not sure, but I don't know if anyone else noticed but, Pop had him guard 6'10 Bjelica in 1st/3rd quarters. Pretty dumb way to utilize him if you ask me.

It was by default. Green was the obvious Wiggins defender and Murray had a much better chance of bothering the shot of and boxing out Bjelica than Mills would have.

[duncan2k5]

It was by default. Green was the obvious Wiggins defender and Murray had a much better chance of bothering the shot of and boxing out Bjelica than Mills would have.

So i guess we see the odd man out here...

[MaNu4Tres]

It was by default. Green was the obvious Wiggins defender and Murray had a much better chance of bothering the shot of and boxing out Bjelica than Mills would have.

Teagues usage is a lot higher and he's a bigger threat than Bjelica. That being said, I would have preferred Murray on Teague/Mills on Bjelica since Teague is more important.

If they wanted to go through Bjelica in the post, then job well done Spurs -- you want to induce teams to go to their inferior options.

Plus, whether if its Murray or Mills, Bjelica would be an advantage over either and would need a double team.

[TD 21]

Teagues usage is a lot higher and he's a bigger threat than Bjelica. That being said, I would have preferred Murray on Teague/Mills on Bjelica since Teague is more important.

If they wanted to go through Bjelica in the post, then job well done Spurs -- you want to induce teams to go to their inferior options.

Plus, whether if its Murray or Mills, Bjelica would be an advantage over either and would need a double team.

It is, but Teague is still the 3rd option. Also, if most (especially an old school coach like Thibodeau) had a mismatch that blatant, even if it is a role player and not really his game, they'd milk it.

Generally, but not when the discrepancy is that gargantuan. Spurs would have had to double, or Bjelica would have either easily shot over Mills or put him under the rim.

Murray's superior height and gigantic wingspan at least provided some resistance.

[Chinook]

Teagues usage is a lot higher and he's a bigger threat than Bjelica. That being said, I would have preferred Murray on Teague/Mills on Bjelica since Teague is more important.

If they wanted to go through Bjelica in the post, then job well done Spurs -- you want to induce teams to go to their inferior options.

Plus, whether if its Murray or Mills, Bjelica would be an advantage over either and would need a double team.

The analytics suggest Murray should stay away from guards like Teague and would be better served checking shooting like Bjelica. That article posted a couple of days ago said Murray's only plus-play defensive is guarding spot-up attempts. Qualitatively speaking, Murray's defensive value comes more from off-ball work than on-ball anyway. It's much easier to jump passing lanes and get blocks when you can come from a help position.

[ceds]

Can't wait until this guy get's the confidence / strength to turn the corner harder in the half court - he is showing me some real open court pace I didn't know he had, if he can learn to add some pace into his game in the half court and attack the rotating / recovering D at his size and with his length, that is going to be a real issue for the opposition.

Good post.....He needs another off-season or two to get strong enough ....also add the corner 3 and we have a real weapon

[YGWHI]

I really liked how he was aggressive and attacked Harden all minutes he was on the floor...DJ's last games were pretty impressive.

[Mikeanaro]

Overrated scrub with no 3 pointer, is he from the 70s or something?

[tholdren]

I really liked how he was aggressive and attacked Harden all minutes he was on the floor...DJ's last games were pretty impressive.

No he didnt. Great on d. Still really shitty on offense. Failed running fast break.

Also its not attacking when you drive and shoot a floater trying to avoid contact or pulling up. Attacking is taking is strong all the way to the cup. He didnt do this, but needs to. Right now hes essentially green without a shot. And many on here think green has no skill

[KDKSpurs24]

No he didnt. Great on d. Still really shitty on offense. Failed running fast break.

Also its not attacking when you drive and shoot a floater trying to avoid contact or pulling up. Attacking is taking is strong all the way to the cup. He didnt do this, but needs to. Right now hes essentially green without a shot. And many on here think green has no skill
The fastbreaks were obviously Patty’s fault. It’s because of his size that he didn’t feel confident about going up attacking with a layup. So it created awkwardness. They even showed the Pop sound bite when he pulled Patty to the side and told him next time he’s on a fast break to just run to the corner for the 3 instead. DJ always runs the fast break well with someone bigger like Kyle.

He does have to improve his offense. But he did attack Harden often. But cmon the dude is super thin and needs more weight and strength to be able to do what you just stated so he has to stick with floaters in traffic for now.

But go ahead and call me “dumb” even though I just gave you the obvious truth.

[tholdren]

The fastbreaks were obviously Patty’s fault. It’s because of his size that he didn’t feel confident about going up attacking with a layup. So it created awkwardness. They even showed the Pop sound bite when he pulled Patty to the side and told him next time he’s on a fast break to just run to the corner for the 3 instead. DJ always runs the fast break well with someone bigger like Kyle.

He does have to improve his offense. But he did attack Harden often. But cmon the dude is super thin and needs more weight and strength to be able to do what you just stated so he has to stick with floaters in traffic for now.

But go ahead and call me “dumb” even though I just gave you the obvious truth.

You must not watch. Murray cant run a fast break. And yes, you are dumb if you think thin has anything to do with no wanting contact. Everyone in the nba is thin.

[palangi]

No he didnt. Great on d. Still really shitty on offense. Failed running fast break.

Also its not attacking when you drive and shoot a floater trying to avoid contact or pulling up. Attacking is taking is strong all the way to the cup. He didnt do this, but needs to. Right now hes essentially green without a shot. And many on here think green has no skill

You don't like Murray?

[KDKSpurs24]

You must not watch. Murray cant run a fast break. And yes, you are dumb if you think thin has anything to do with no wanting contact. Everyone in the nba is thin.
He runs them pretty good for the most part. Do you not understand? It’s not about “not wanting contact”. It’s about him being too damn light to finish. So if they don’t call the foul he most likely will miss for no reason. And you know damn well that Murray is thinner than most. And no they’re not. Especially not the big men that he will be meeting at the rim. And even for the sake of this situation, Harden is not thin either.

[KDKSpurs24]

You don't like Murray?
He obviously doesn’t. It’s almost seems personal at this point :lol

[tholdren]

He runs them pretty good for the most part. Do you not understand? It’s not about “not wanting contact”. It’s about him being too damn light to finish. So if they don’t call the foul he most likely will miss for no reason. And you know damn well that Murray is thinner than most. And no they’re not. Especially not the big men that he will be meeting at the rim. And even for the sake of this situation, Harden is not thin either.

Lololololololll. Then he has no business in the nba

[tholdren]

You don't like Murray?

No. Hes terrible. But i do praise him if he does anything right. Shitty to watch him run the floor, and if you like good ball movement or the right basketball play, it should be personal. Hes ruining any hope of good ball movement

[YGWHI]

Overrated scrub with no 3 pointer, is he from the 70s or something?
I'd like more 3-points shooters instead of DJ and Kyle together in the starting lineup but both players improved in last games. Kyle has his ways to score without a 3-point shot and DJ is finding his...

Many players didn't have a shot in their first seasons, kept working and shots started to fall...Could be Murray's case

[YGWHI]

The fastbreaks were obviously Patty’s fault. It’s because of his size that he didn’t feel confident about going up attacking with a layup. So it created awkwardness. They even showed the Pop sound bite when he pulled Patty to the side and told him next time he’s on a fast break to just run to the corner for the 3 instead. DJ always runs the fast break well with someone bigger like Kyle.

He does have to improve his offense. But he did attack Harden often. But cmon the dude is super thin and needs more weight and strength to be able to do what you just stated so he has to stick with floaters in traffic for now.
:tu

[palangi]

No. Hes terrible. But i do praise him if he does anything right. Shitty to watch him run the floor, and if you like good ball movement or the right basketball play, it should be personal. Hes ruining any hope of good ball movement
I'm still having a hard time understanding. You haven't been real clear.

[palangi]

He obviously doesn’t. It’s almost seems personal at this point :lol

No doubt. It's all he can talk about

[Slippy]

Ok it needs to be said. his finishing of layups against rockets is the best ive seen from him all season. Finally showing improvement at a part of his game that was way too soft. Finished strong, displayed a change of speed & used his body to sheild his shot.

[duncan2k5]

I'm stool having a hard time understanding. You haven't been real clear.

LMFAO!!!

[Russ]

Great on d. Still really shitty on offense.

Funny thing is I thought Murray was the worst defensive player I'd ever seen in college (even though I loved him for the Spurs in the draft).

The Spurs have molded him into a good defensive player.

Murray is a piece of clay that the Spurs can mold into an elite player just like they did with Kawhi. (Let's hope they don't stop at the neck this time.)

[Seventyniner]

Funny thing is I thought Murray was the worst defensive player I'd ever seen in college (even though I loved him for the Spurs in the draft).

The Spurs have molded him into a good defensive player.

Murray is a piece of clay that the Spurs can mold into an elite player just like they did with Kawhi. (Let's hope they don't stop at the neck this time.)

Out of curiosity, did you watch much of Kyle Anderson in college? I didn't. I ask because when the Spurs drafted him all I saw was talk about his passing ability, but he has become a great defensive player and rebounder.

[Mr. Body]

Out of curiosity, did you watch much of Kyle Anderson in college? I didn't. I ask because when the Spurs drafted him all I saw was talk about his passing ability, but he has become a great defensive player and rebounder.

The last thing I ever expected Kyle Anderson to be was a good defender. That he holds it down the way he has is a huge testament to his and the team's efforts at improvement.

[Russ]

Out of curiosity, did you watch much of Kyle Anderson in college? I didn't. I ask because when the Spurs drafted him all I saw was talk about his passing ability, but he has become a great defensive player and rebounder.

As a USC Trojan, I would never watch Kyle Anderson's Bruins. :lol

[K...]

We're talking about Kyle in a Murray thread, YOLO, but Kyle was always touted as a poor man's diaw. That's post prime diaw specifically.

That the Spurs got him to be a defensive small ball 4 with better than diaw defense is a great idea. The offense will come and Kyle will be great role player from his age's 26 to 30 if everything works out. Defense before offense with both Kyle and Murray nay have been a much about giving kawhi greater playmaking demands. It'll be interesting, If kawhi leaves next season, how much more green light those two get (assuming Kyle comes back)

[Seventyniner]

We're talking about Kyle in a Murray thread, YOLO, but Kyle was always touted as a poor man's diaw. That's post prime diaw specifically.

That the Spurs got him to be a defensive small ball 4 with better than diaw defense is a great idea. The offense will come and Kyle will be great role player from his age's 26 to 30 if everything works out. Defense before offense with both Kyle and Murray nay have been a much about giving kawhi greater playmaking demands. It'll be interesting, If kawhi leaves next season, how much more green light those two get (assuming Kyle comes back)

Yeah it's a total thread hijack. I was thinking that Murray and Anderson can be used as (positive) examples of PATFO's player development skills, at least on the defensive end.

Of course a player has to have both the tools and desire to be a good defender. Mills, Neal, Forbes (too small) and Belinelli (didn't care enough?) are counterexamples here.

[SAGirl]

Yeah it's a total thread hijack. I was thinking that Murray and Anderson can be used as (positive) examples of PATFO's player development skills, at least on the defensive end.

Of course a player has to have both the tools and desire to be a good defender. Mills, Neal, Forbes (too small) and Belinelli (didn't care enough?) are counterexamples here.
In college both were already above average rebounders, ball hawks (steals, poking balls away and passing lanes, and in Kyle’s case blocks)... Dijon was too rail thin to pose much resistance to anybody and he gave up on plays quickly plus he didn’t have awareness. Kyle was lazy. But both had physical tools with their size, arms length and good instincts already for rebounds and steals. Team defense is something they had to learn.

[Chinook]

Yeah it's a total thread hijack. I was thinking that Murray and Anderson can be used as (positive) examples of PATFO's player development skills, at least on the defensive end.

Of course a player has to have both the tools and desire to be a good defender. Mills, Neal, Forbes (too small) and Belinelli (didn't care enough?) are counterexamples here.

Both Murray and Anderson had defensive chops in college. Their length is above-average for the NBA, but its was absolutely superlative for in college. They got their steals and blocks. I think Anderson's defensive prospects were underrated because people overrated raw foot speed.

From DX:


With that said, the biggest questions surrounding Anderson's pro potential revolve around his play on the defensive end, specifically, who he will be able to guard at the NBA level. While Anderson's length and anticipation skills allow him to generate plenty of blocks and steals, his lateral quickness is as poor as any player in this draft class. He's extremely upright in his defensive stance, and he allows opposing players to blow right by him like he's simply invisible at times. Because of his struggles getting low and staying in front of opponents, reaching for steals is usually Anderson's most effective strategy, something NBA teams are certain to go after and try to exploit regularly. In college his coaches would often try to “hide him” by putting him on big men or non-scorers, which might not work quite as well in the more physically gifted and talented NBA. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kyle-Anderson-6177/ ©DraftExpress

This is what DX said about Murray:


Defensively, Murray's long arms and excellent instincts give him some potential to grow into, but he was largely ineffective on this end of the floor as a freshman. He doesn't put much effort into this part of his game at this stage of his career, as he has poor fundamentals and isn't particularly attentive either. His lack of strength made it easy for players to bulldoze their way straight through him, he rarely gives a second effort after getting beat, and often looks very upright just standing straight up off the ball. With that said, Murray shows quick hands and reaction time sniffing out passes and getting in the passing lanes (1.9 steals per-40 pace adjusted) and was one of the better rebounding guards in our Top-100 (6.3 per-40, 6th), which leaves some room for optimism that he can improve this part of his game over the next few years with better coaching and effort. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Dejounte-Murray-7309/ ©DraftExpress

The most significant thing the Spurs have done for both players is getting them to engage on the defensive end. It helps that neither player is being asked to be a star or carry the load offensively. But you see enough NBA players give up on D that it's still a credit to the coaching staff for them to bring the effort consistently.

[duncan2k5]

Murray's leap on defense from last year to this year was incredible, to say the least...and he still has a lot of room to grow there...last year i thought he was absolutely horrible and lazy, with bad instincts...he is much better now, and i hhope he focuses on that more...and also running the break and finishing until he rounds out his offensive game....he needs to get more aggressive and be an attacker

[BD24]

The last thing I ever expected Kyle Anderson to be was a good defender. That he holds it down the way he has is a huge testament to his and the team's efforts at improvement.
Yea, the fact he has become a good, maybe great, defender is pretty shocking.

I remember the big worry when he got drafted was that he was going to be a traffic cone on defense.

[MultiTroll]

You Murray haters need to seriously GTFO.
Take Crater Face and his pets and Yes Men with you.

Looking great vs Portland.
Just turned 21. With a real coach he can just keep getting better.

[tholdren]

Played well hope it continues

[barbacoataco]

Really impressed me tonight. If he can get to the line like that it makes up for his mediocre shooting. Very competitive player.

[cd021]

Last 5 games:

29.2 mpg, 47% FG, 13.2 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 3.6 APG, 2.8 SPG

:wow

[Budkin]

We better keep this dude.

[HarlemHeat37]

It's nice that he's finally being aggressive in the paint..it's evident that he was afraid of Pop earlier, but he seems confident now that his spot is secure..he still can't make plays for others consistently, but can't be mad at the progress he has made this season, anything more would not have been a realistic expectation..

Hopefully he develops a shot one day, of course..it'll never work in today's NBA without one..

[palangi]

Him and white could be a good combo in the future

[SAGirl]

He has improved his aggression going to the basket and looking for shots he’s comfortable with. He’s been very encouraging this season. Still getting better as he’s 21 there’s hope for his shooting yet. Doesn’t need to be a special shooter, just decent enough that you need to respect it. Anyways it’s been encouraging to see him get confidence. He has grown a lot in that department. That’s why I wanted the playoffs for him. He’s really not afraid of the moment.

[MultiTroll]

.it's evident that he was afraid of Pop earlier, but he seems confident now that his spot is secure..he still can't make plays for others consistently, but can't be mad at the progress he has made this season, anything more would not have been a realistic expectation..
Given the lack of coaching, his growth is excellent.
Make plays for who, 50 Paddy and High School Forbes etc? As has been brought out and obvious, he's burned out of at least 2-3 assists a game.

Agree he must develop shot. I see Kwa Light potential if his growth rate continues for the next 2-3 years. He'll get on PEDs like the rest of the NBA and hit the weights. Just not sure he's going to be able to overcome Popped and the FO.

[ceds]

He’s really not afraid of the moment.

That's a quote I remember DJ saying in the off-season and it holds true.

reminds of Sjax "I make love to pressure" type of confidence.

Looking forward to seeing how his 2nd post-season goes

[BD24]

Has looked pretty good recently. As Harlem said though it’s all a moot point if he can’t develop a reliable jumper

[SpursDynasty85]

Has looked pretty good recently. As Harlem said though it’s all a moot point if he can’t develop a reliable jumper

Before getting a jumper he needs to get to the basket more. Then develop a jumper off of defenders sagging like Parker. DJ's defense is above average already but his complete lack of offensive tools from the moment he has the ball is still a concern. Most of his points come off hustle layups / rebound putbacks.

[BD24]

Before getting a jumper he needs to get to the basket more. Then develop a jumper off of defenders sagging like Parker. DJ's defense is above average already but his complete lack of offensive tools from the moment he has the ball is still a concern. Most of his points come off hustle layups / rebound putbacks.
I look at it the opposite. If he develops a good jumper defenders have to play him tighter. This will allow him to get to the hoop more easily on penetration. He has difficulty getting to the basket at the moment because defenders can sag off him.

[raybies]

Its step by step really. He can be an all star without a j. He can dominate the game without a 3. First its getting his floater to be more efficient. Then its his elbow jumper. With his size he can essentially do what Ben Simmons has ben doing and taking up space. Simmons has the hook. Murray the floater... He's already improved his efficiency on his floater. Some spurs dude just did a tweet or article about it today. And he's been showing he can shoot the elbow j. If he can one day shoot the corner 3 that just helps his longevity as he ages. Ben Simmons dominates with having no j what so ever but its relative. He usually has 3s and 4s guarding him while Murray will have 1s and 2s. He has the the length to get his floater off anytime he wants if the go under and the big sags.

[SpursDynasty85]

I look at it the opposite. If he develops a good jumper defenders have to play him tighter. This will allow him to get to the hoop more easily on penetration. He has difficulty getting to the basket at the moment because defenders can sag off him.

That's one strategy but it would be a miracle to see him develop one by next year. His shot release looks so crooked right now. By next year a better floater and savvy layups would be his next evolution since he has a foundation so far. For now I wouldn't mind a complete reconstruction of his jump shot.

[MaNu4Tres]

Has looked pretty good recently. As Harlem said though it’s all a moot point if he can’t develop a reliable jumper


Murray has actually improved a lot since the AS break:

Since the AS break: Murray is making 64% of his shots in the restricted area -- which is better than the league average. He's also making 45% of his shots right outside of the restricted area ( floater range) -- that's above average too.

He's also making 41% of his corner 3's since the AS break.


His midrange is below average, as he's converting 36% of the midrange opportunities since the All-Star break, but Parker shot 34% from midrange his 2nd year.

Parker didn't start hitting his midrange til he was 24 years old fwiw.

The lazy critics on this site that want to hold on to the same narratives they used last year couldn't be more wrong.

[Atl Spur]

You Murray haters need to seriously GTFO.
Take Crater Face and his pets and Yes Men with you.

Looking great vs Portland.
Just turned 21. With a real coach he can just keep getting better.

So pops not a real coach? You big kidder you! Lol

[Jsmythe]

Some spurs dude just did a tweet or article about it today.

Here's the article. It was a good read:

https://projectspurs.com/2018/04/09/murrays-improved-accuracy-close-to-the-basket-after-the-all-star-break/

[raybies]

Here's the article. It was a good read:

https://projectspurs.com/2018/04/09/murrays-improved-accuracy-close-to-the-basket-after-the-all-star-break/

thanks bro.. the kid is evolving

[SpursDynasty85]

Murray has actually improved a lot since the AS break:

Since the AS break: Murray is making 64% of his shots in the restricted area -- which is better than the league average. He's also making 45% of his shots right outside of the restricted area ( floater range) -- that's above average too.

He's also making 41% of his corner 3's since the AS break.


His midrange is below average, as he's converting 36% of the midrange opportunities since the All-Star break, but Parker shot 34% from midrange his 2nd year.

Parker didn't start hitting his midrange til he was 24 years old fwiw.

The lazy critics on this site that want to hold on to the same narratives they used last year couldn't be more wrong.

Those midrange have to consist of his floaters because I've watched about 10 games where he was starting and I maybe saw him hit 1 jump shot!

[tholdren]

Murray has actually improved a lot since the AS break:

Since the AS break: Murray is making 64% of his shots in the restricted area -- which is better than the league average. He's also making 45% of his shots right outside of the restricted area ( floater range) -- that's above average too.

He's also making 41% of his corner 3's since the AS break.


His midrange is below average, as he's converting 36% of the midrange opportunities since the All-Star break, but Parker shot 34% from midrange his 2nd year.

Parker didn't start hitting his midrange til he was 24 years old fwiw.

The lazy critics on this site that want to hold on to the same narratives they used last year couldn't be more wrong.

Dont need a midrange game. Need rim attack. Carry on

[Nathan89]

Failed experiment tbh.

[tholdren]

Dont need a midrange game. Need rim attack. Carry on

[TD 21]

Not to mention that the Spurs believe strongly that Dejounte Murray is going to be a star in his own right at point guard. http://www.nba.com/article/2018/05/21/morning-tip-mailbag-may-21-2018

[tholdren]

nor Chad Ford. He was a PG in college with a 4apg 3TOpg average. Thats bad. 66% ft thats bad. 28% 3pt that's bad.

The deal is he does what say needs - attacks the rim. But its ISO garbage and ill advised shots. To make matters worse, his game is driving and attacking but he can't make a ft?

I would have selected Demetrius Jackson, but am not as bummed with this pick as it actually addressed a need.

2 years ago and still correct. You are all dumb. I am smart

[Atl Spur]

2 years ago and still correct. You are all dumb. I am smart

I feel sorry that this has become your life��

[duncan2k5]

I feel sorry that this has become your life��

Lololol

[tholdren]

I feel sorry that this has become your life��

Im right you dumb

[tholdren]

2 years ago and still correct. You are all dumb. I am smart
Originally Posted by*tholdren

nor Chad Ford. He was a PG in college with a 4apg 3TOpg average. Thats bad. 66% ft thats bad. 28% 3pt that's bad.*

The deal is he does what say needs - attacks the rim. But its ISO garbage and ill advised shots. To make matters worse, his game is driving and attacking but he can't make a ft?*

I would have selected Demetrius Jackson, but am not as bummed with this pick as it actually addressed a need.

[MultiTroll]

Originally Posted by*tholdren
He was a PG in college with a 4apg 3TOpg average. Thats bad. 66% ft thats bad. 28% 3pt that's bad.*
As an 18 year old freshman.
Lighten up Francis.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Murray just made NBA ALL DEFENSIVE SECOND TEAM. pretty impressive would have never thought he would have made this a year ago.

[rjv]

Murray just made NBA ALL DEFENSIVE SECOND TEAM. pretty impressive would have never thought he would have made this a year ago.

but, but ST posters think...

[duncan2k5]

but, but ST posters think...

Lmao... And I think the only reason he didn't win first is dipo was the NBA darling this year... Murray has better metrics

[Chinook]

but, but ST posters think...

Think what? It seems like you hit the reply button too quickly.

[MaNu4Tres]

So proud of my DeJounte.


So Proud.

[John B]

He’s gonna be a beast :flag:

[Chinook]

Congrats to DeJounte on the award. I don't think it was all that well deserved, but there's zero downside to him getting it. Hopefully, it makes him work harder on that end and helps raise his stock around the league.

[dabom]

Better than green already.

[tholdren]

As an 18 year old freshman.
Lighten up Francis.

There is no defense for those numbers freshman in hs or college.

[tholdren]

Better than green already.
You came out from hiding after all the terrible takes.... sad

[ceds]

No suprises...always had the tools just needed to put in the work

[tholdren]

No suprises...always had the tools just needed to put in the work

Dumb

[acoelho1]

People still can’t admit they were wrong about his defenisive abilities. He’s a special talent and will be a star in this league.

[Seventyniner]

People still can’t admit they were wrong about his defenisive abilities. He’s a special talent and will be a star in this league.

He certainly is a very good defensive player. But his offense needs a ton of work for him to get near "star" level. He can get to the rim but struggles to finish, has average court vision at best, and is a bad shooter.

[alpha_HaZE]

So happy for him! He is one of the BEST defenders for his position.

[tholdren]

People still can’t admit they were wrong about his defenisive abilities. He’s a special talent and will be a star in this league.

Thats how terrible nba is

[acoelho1]

He certainly is a very good defensive player. But his offense needs a ton of work for him to get near "star" level. He can get to the rim but struggles to finish, has average court vision at best, and is a bad shooter.

No doubt but we already saw improvement in the latter half of the year. I’m not saying he will a be star tomorrow but I believe he has the tools and determination to get there. It seems the Spurs org also thinks he does as well. Give him some time and another couple of summers. I’m expecting a big jump offensively after this summer.