If the Spurs draft 11th

[duncan2150]

Did not even think of that. Detozan and Warriors might welcome him with open arms too but what would/could they give up? Next years first wouldn’t be enough since it would be so low but something around 15-18 would be perfect.


That's why you Need a third team imo like the Chinook trade

[mo7888]

https://twitter.com/MattBabcock11/status/1326616444189077504?s=19

Don't get me hyped up like this...

I've thought we've been looking to move up all along but this tweet makes me think that maybe the move is for a current player rather than a pick (then again maybe im reading to much into it).

[mo7888]

I'm gonna throw out the longest of Longshots here....

First, I think Houston ownership is going 'cheap' the next few years... The owner is hurting a lil bit on the restaurant side not to mention the China pain Morey cost him. Add to that the fact that harden hasn't returned team calls in two weeks.

I could see Houston offering up Harden for LMA, 11, and one young piece. I know... I know... Longshot of the highest order...total fantasy.... but watch the rockets closely....

[Dejounte]

I'm gonna throw out the longest of Longshots here....

First, I think Houston ownership is going 'cheap' the next few years... The owner is hurting a lil bit on the restaurant side not to mention the China pain Morey cost him. Add to that the fact that harden hasn't returned team calls in two weeks.

I could see Houston offering up Harden for LMA, 11, and one young piece. I know... I know... Longshot of the highest order...total fantasy.... but watch the rockets closely....

Harden hasnt returned calls in two weeks? Source?

[mo7888]

Harden hasnt returned calls in two weeks? Source?

Hoopshype

https://hoopshype.com/rumor/james-harden-ignoring-calls-from-rockets/

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1319305745016320000/ptr8xH6b_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider) Chad Ford (https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider) (https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider) Chadfordinsider (https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider)





Impressive wingspans
Isaiah Stewart, Wash, +10.5” (6’ 7.25” ht, 7’ 4.75” wing)
Paul Eboua, Italy +9.5 (6’ 6” ht - 7’ 3.5” wing)
Udoka Azubuike, Kansas +9.25 (6’ 10” ht, 7’ 7.25” wing)
Robert Woodard III, Mississippi State + 8.5” (6’ 5.5” ht - 7’ 2” wing)

6:19pm · 11 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/1326681034826555392) · TweetDeck (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[spurspl]

I'm gonna throw out the longest of Longshots here....

First, I think Houston ownership is going 'cheap' the next few years... The owner is hurting a lil bit on the restaurant side not to mention the China pain Morey cost him. Add to that the fact that harden hasn't returned team calls in two weeks.

I could see Houston offering up Harden for LMA, 11, and one young piece. I know... I know... Longshot of the highest order...total fantasy.... but watch the rockets closely....

interesting but harden is worth much more

[mo7888]

interesting but harden is worth much more

Yes he is..

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/743297685302632451/pSX-RERB_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress) Jonathan Givony (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress) (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress) @DraftExpress (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress)





New mock draft up on ESPN with all the latest intel we're hearing from around the NBA espn.com/nba/insider/st… (https://t.co/PPqUTNiqSR)
6:31pm · 11 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1326684084635127810) · Twitter for Android


(https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels) 11. San Antonio Spurs (https://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/sa/san-antonio-spurs)https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/mens-college-basketball/players/full/4396909.png&w=65&h=90&scale=crop&background=0xcccccc&transparent=falseAaron Nesmith
Vanderbilt
G/F
Age: 21.0
The Spurs are exploring both wings and bigs, as they have several positions of need in an aging frontcourt. Nesmith is one of the best shooters in the draft and has some multipositional versatility thanks to his excellent size, length and frame.

[rankingtear]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/743297685302632451/pSX-RERB_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress) Jonathan Givony (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress) @DraftExpress (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress)





New mock draft up on ESPN with all the latest intel we're hearing from around the NBA espn.com/nba/insider/st… (https://t.co/PPqUTNiqSR)
6:31pm · 11 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1326684084635127810) · Twitter for Android


(https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels) 11. San Antonio Spurs (https://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/sa/san-antonio-spurs)

https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/mens-college-basketball/players/full/4396909.png&w=65&h=90&scale=crop&background=0xcccccc&transparent=falseAaron Nesmith
Vanderbilt
G/F
Age: 21.0
The Spurs are exploring both wings and bigs, as they have several positions of need in an aging frontcourt. Nesmith is one of the best shooters in the draft and has some multipositional versatility thanks to his excellent size, length and frame.

Who goes 10 and 12?

[ace3g]

Who goes 10 and 12?

10. Phoenix Suns (https://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/phx/phoenix-suns)https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/mens-college-basketball/players/full/4395630.png&w=65&h=90&scale=crop&background=0xcccccc&transparent=falseDevin Vassell
Florida State
G/F
Age: 20.2
The Suns are looking heavily at point guards and wings, particularly those who complement Devin Booker (http://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3136193/devin-booker). Vassell is the type of strong 3-and-D role player every NBA team is looking for. A late bloomer physically who showed significant versatility both on and off the ball at Florida State, Vassell has some offensive upside to grow into thanks to his above-average passing and ability to shoot off the dribble.


12. Sacramento Kings (https://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/sac/sacramento-kings)https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/photo/2020/0318/r680846_400x600_2-3.jpgKillian Hayes
Ulm
G
Age: 19.2
Hayes has one of the wider draft ranges of any of the players in this tier of prospects, as he's getting looks from as high as Chicago (No. 4) and Detroit (No. 7). The glut of guards might ultimately push him down the board to Sacramento, which could use a solidly sized combo guard who can play alongside De'Aaron Fox (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4066259/de'aaron-fox) while also taking over the backup point guard minutes.




7. Detroit Pistons (https://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/det/detroit-pistons)https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/mens-college-basketball/players/full/4431687.png&w=65&h=90&scale=crop&background=0xcccccc&transparent=falsePatrick Williams
Florida State
F
Age: 19.2
The big winner of the pre-draft process thus far, Williams rocketed into the top 10 as NBA teams gained a comfort level with his film and watched combo forwards in his mold make a significant impact in the playoffs. His defensive versatility is coveted in today's NBA, and the flashes he showed as a playmaker and shooter are areas that can theoretically be honed into consistent weapons with a strong player development infrastructure.
Full Williams scouting report (https://www.espn.com/nba/draft/bestavailable)
8. New York Knicks (https://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/ny/new-york-knicks)https://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/headshots/mens-college-basketball/players/full/4396993.png&w=65&h=90&scale=crop&background=0xcccccc&transparent=falseTyrese Haliburton
Iowa State
G
Age: 20.6
This is the low end of Haliburton's draft range. He is also getting looks from Minnesota, Golden State, Chicago and Detroit. Haliburton brings the type of defensive versatility, unselfishness and shooting range the Knicks were lacking at times last season, making him a strong fit in a backcourt with RJ Barrett (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/4395625/rj-barrett), who is at his best with the ball in his hands.
Full Haliburton scouting report (https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/28922348/scouting-nba-draft-lottery-prospects-strengths-comps-intel#haliburton)

[Dejounte]

I'm all for it. Nesmith is the perfect complement with his shooting ability to Keldon, if Keldon continues his development into becoming a bull dog on offense.

[Chinook]

In the deal SA should keep 11

How? Do you think DET would do 7 for DMDR straight up? If so, then you just do that and give 2 the middle finger.

[Mugen]

Let's get Charlotte involved and take Batum's expiring over that garbage Wiggins contract tbh.

What better place for Maple Jordan than to be with terrible owner Jordan

[DPG21920]

How? Do you think DET would do 7 for DMDR straight up? If so, then you just do that and give 2 the middle finger.

No Pistons keep 7 and send a future first. GS doesn’t get a pick back (at least not 11 - maybe the future first from DET).

So Sa gets 2 and keeps 11.

Gs gets to dump Wiggins and gets LMA + future 1st from DET

DET gets DDR

[Chinook]

No Pistons keep 7 and send a future first. GS doesn’t get a pick back (at least not 11 - maybe the future first from DET).

So Sa gets 2 and keeps 11.

Gs gets to dump Wiggins and gets LMA + future 1st from DET

DET gets DDR

I don't think GS does that then. Like why not just have SA send a future pick and do something else with DeRozan?

[RC_Drunkford]

Kovid Klaw is apparently tryin to recruit CP3. Westbrook wants out. Harden doesn't pick up the phone. Plenty of options tbh. I wouldn't mind getting Pandemic P in a trade. Would be the best forward we had since 2017

[Chinook]

If the Spurs are desperate to be in cap hell, they could do DMDR and LMA for Wiggins, Green and 2. It saves GS gobs of money down the line, and Curry/Thompson/DeRozan _____ and Aldridge actually sounds like a very intriguing offensive lineup. Whether they could get a defensive four to slide into that spot would be the question. Might be able to trick a Morris twin into going or maybe find a way to get Paul Reed by buying a pick. SA would have to love a guy at 2 unless a third team takes Green off their hands. Maybe LAL would want him for Kuz, 28 and Danny Green?

So:

Spurs out: Aldridge, DeRozan
Spurs in: 2, Kuzma, Wiggins, Danny Green

Warriors in: Aldridge, DeRozan, 28
Warriors out: 2, Draymond Green, Wiggins

Lakers in: Draymond Green
Lakers out: 28, Kuzma, Danny Green

Spurs get 2 without locking themselves into tax hell, while also getting a young four for their trouble

Warriors save money and get lesser stars to make another run

Lakers get a defensive four who replace Markieff Morris and someone who can make plays to spell James. Would be like if the Lance Stephenson signing worked out.

[rankingtear]

DET got cap space to sign DDR without giving up 7 and a future first.

[DPG21920]

I don't think GS does that then. Like why not just have SA send a future pick and do something else with DeRozan?

Because I don’t think GS can net a pick with getting a player that’s better than Wiggins + save money otherwise. SA won’t give them 11 but if GS can get a first and Sa can keep 11 with 2? I think Sa parts with DDR to keep 11 and get 2.

[Thomas82]

There are never rumors with details about the Spurs. Something’s up.

Facts!!

[RC_Drunkford]

I'd love to trade DDR to Brooklyn. They have a lot of good young players on friendly deals. That would be the ideal trade partner. Do you think the Warriors would do Mills, Gay and 11 for Wiggins and 2? They need role players more than anything. Spurs could also send Poeltl to GS in a sign and trade with Gay.

[exstatic]

I'd love to trade DDR to Brooklyn. They have a lot of good young players on friendly deals. That would be the ideal trade partner. Do you think the Warriors would do Mills, Gay and 11 for Wiggins and 2? They need role players more than anything. Spurs could also send Poeltl to GS in a sign and trade with Gay.

OK, now you’re just living up to your username. NO, GS will not trade #2 for our crap. End of discussion.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Don't you guys get tired of trying to come up with all these convoluted trade scenarios because the team is in cap hell? They need to get the fuck out of cap hell, and then they can float some trades that actually make sense. Maybe pick up some guys that you'd actually want to have on a multi-year deal, instead of constantly having to think about how long you'll be stuck with their salary.

[Chinook]

Don't you guys get tired of trying to come up with all these convoluted trade scenarios because the team is in cap hell? They need to get the fuck out of cap hell, and then they can float some trades that actually make sense. Maybe pick up some guys that you'd actually want to have on a multi-year deal, instead of constantly having to think about how long you'll be stuck with their salary.

Who's in cap hell? Not SA.

[talkspurs]

Don't you guys get tired of trying to come up with all these convoluted trade scenarios because the team is in cap hell? They need to get the fuck out of cap hell, and then they can float some trades that actually make sense. Maybe pick up some guys that you'd actually want to have on a multi-year deal, instead of constantly having to think about how long you'll be stuck with their salary.

Yes because teams are just trying to trade away players that are on good deals.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Who's in cap hell? Not SA.


We can always count on you to say ignorant shit, just for the sake of arguing. Mommy must not have given you enough attention when you were little.

They have been in cap hell for years. They get out of it AFTER this upcoming season... IF they don't take on contracts like Wiggins as ballast in deals for LMA or DDR. You can talk about DDR opting out, if and when he opts out. Right this moment, they're capped and have to match everything.

IF they try and trade LMA, or S&T DeRozan, they almost certainly wind up taking back longer contracts that eat into next year's flexibility. And if DeRozan does opt out, they wind up, what, $14M under the cap? That will get them a mid-tier guy and probably commit them to paying Forbes and Poeltl, just because they have Bird rights. That eats into the next year's flexibility. And if they do wind up taking on some contract like Wiggins', that eats into it too. And there's always the possibility that the market is looking soft, so DDR opts in, hoping that ratings come back and COVID dies down, and next year will bring a better deal - which means that all these trades involve taking back salary and longer contracts.

Besides all that, you know that what I was saying is that I want them to keep from fucking up the huge flexibility they'll have next year when the FA class is much stronger. They may not be able to attract top-tier FA's, but we know for sure they can't if they don't have max cap space.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Yes because teams are just trying to trade away players that are on good deals.


No... but if you have cap space, you might get one of those if you also take a problem contract like Wiggins' off their hands. You can't do that when you're capped.

Fucking mortals.

[objective]

IF a deal like LMA+11 for Wiggins+2 happened, wouldn't that put the Spurs into the tax if DDR opted in?

A LMA+11 deal would bump the Spurs salaries up over $10 million between Wiggins and the salary difference between 2 and 11.

With Wiggins, #2, DDR, Murray, Gay, Mills, White, Walker, Johnson, Samanic, and DeMarre's Dead Money that's $ 126.15914 for only 10 players by my bad math.

The luxury tax is 132.627

They couldn't even keep Lyles in this scenario, and even renouncing Marco and Forbes, I don't think they could keep Poeltl on his 5.08787 qualifying offer without going into the tax.

[EasyMoney]

IF a deal like LMA+11 for Wiggins+2 happened, wouldn't that put the Spurs into the tax if DDR opted in?

A LMA+11 deal would bump the Spurs salaries up over $10 million between Wiggins and the salary difference between 2 and 11.

With Wiggins, #2, DDR, Murray, Gay, Mills, White, Walker, Johnson, Samanic, and DeMarre's Dead Money that's $ 126.15914 for only 10 players by my bad math.

The luxury tax is 132.627

They couldn't even keep Lyles in this scenario, and even renouncing Marco and Forbes, I don't think they could keep Poeltl on his 5.08787 qualifying offer without going into the tax.

I don't think they do the wiggins deal if demar stays.

[Chinook]

We can always count on you to say ignorant shit, just for the sake of arguing. Mommy must not have given you enough attention when you were little.

They have been in cap hell for years. They get out of it AFTER this upcoming season... IF they don't take on contracts like Wiggins as ballast in deals for LMA or DDR. You can talk about DDR opting out, if and when he opts out. Right this moment, they're capped and have to match everything.

IF they try and trade LMA, or S&T DeRozan, they almost certainly wind up taking back longer contracts that eat into next year's flexibility. And if DeRozan does opt out, they wind up, what, $14M under the cap? That will get them a mid-tier guy and probably commit them to paying Forbes and Poeltl, just because they have Bird rights. That eats into the next year's flexibility. And if they do wind up taking on some contract like Wiggins', that eats into it too. And there's always the possibility that the market is looking soft, so DDR opts in, hoping that ratings come back and COVID dies down, and next year will bring a better deal - which means that all these trades involve taking back salary and longer contracts.

Besides all that, you know that what I was saying is that I want them to keep from fucking up the huge flexibility they'll have next year when the FA class is much stronger. They may not be able to attract top-tier FA's, but we know for sure they can't if they don't have max cap space.

Okay first of all take your political shit somewhere else. There's a whole forum for that, and every once in a while someone will post a thread here where we'll talk about it. Outside of that, I don't hold anyone's political views against them (well except ducks). You can extend me that courtesy or not, but if you don't, I just won't engage with you.

Anyway, no. SA isn't and hasn't been in cap hell. That's not a term that can apply easily to NBA teams, since most teams are constantly over the cap. Being so is not restrictive like it is in the NFL. The goal of a team isn't to be under the cap very often. It's something they should do for short windows to add talent and then they should stay over the cap for several more years until they need to drop down strategically to get more talent. The Spurs did that successfully in 2015 and 2016 and gave themselves the option of doing so in 2017. In 2018, the Spurs purposefully chose to stay above the cap by trading for DeRozan rather than expiring deals and to move Green instead of Gasol. So last year was the only year that SA has been in a position where they might've preferred cap space and didn't have a reasonable path to get it. So they chose to re-up Gay for two years to give themselves a clearer window for space in 2021.

Anyway, the Spurs can make any of these trades by themselves and still end up with a max slot, especially if Murray is part of the outgoing package. Even that win-now Holiday trade combined with that other win-now Tucker trade provides more cap space for next summer than the team is currently projected to have.

[Dejounte]

OMG SIX MORE DAYS

[RC_Drunkford]

I think people forget about the Celtics. They have 3 first rounders and Hayward. They were supposedly interested in Aldridge. LA and Mills for Hayward, if he opts in which is likely, might get you 2 firsts

[Spursfanfromafar]

Am really excited for this draft. If the worst possible talent available to draft is Patrick Williams, this will be a good draft. My dream scenario is getting Isaac Okoro. If not Devin Vassel will be a great snag.

[look_at_g_shred]

I won't be bummed if we stay at 11. Drafting Nesmith is a big fucking W imho.

[look_at_g_shred]

1326862966743031808

[look_at_g_shred]

Honestly, it should be Murray + 11th to move up and draft Halli/Hayes

[exstatic]

I think people forget about the Celtics. They have 3 first rounders and Hayward. They were supposedly interested in Aldridge. LA and Mills for Hayward, if he opts in which is likely, might get you 2 firsts

Hayward is trash, at this point in his career. Can’t stay healthy, and has a contract that, for his health issues, is arguably worse than Wiggins.

[spurspl]

Hayward is trash, at this point in his career. Can’t stay healthy, and has a contract that, for his health issues, is arguably worse than Wiggins.

tru but hayward has only 1yr left on his contract and boston could offer 2 firsts. That make them an interesting alternative option.

[spurspl]

Honestly, it should be Murray + 11th to move up and draft Halli/Hayes

as much as im not a fan of djm in this trade spurs gives too much. id much rather try to trade murray without our pick to get hali. Sth like with det: ddr/murray/41 for snell/7.

[The Truth #6]

I won't be bummed if we stay at 11. Drafting Nesmith is a big fucking W imho.

Interesting. To me that's a high floor/low ceiling type of pick. There's an argument for that type of approach, though it's not how I want to proceed. Do you see Nesmith as more than a great shooter?

[spurspl]

Interesting. To me that's a high floor/low ceiling type of pick. There's an argument for that type of approach, though it's not how I want to proceed. Do you see Nesmith as more than a great shooter?

even if he becomes "only" a great shooter and stays healthy thats a great value for 11th pick in a weak draft.

[DPG21920]

White is likely Better by himself than anyone at 6 will be. No way you move White + 11 to move 5 spots.

White/Toppin or White/Neismith is clearly better than Patrick William

[RC_Drunkford]

Hayward is trash, at this point in his career. Can’t stay healthy, and has a contract that, for his health issues, is arguably worse than Wiggins.

Hayward is still a better player than Wiggins and only on a 1-year deal. If you end up with 11 and 14 or 11, 26 and 30 you can easily make another trade to move up.

[look_at_g_shred]

Interesting. To me that's a high floor/low ceiling type of pick. There's an argument for that type of approach, though it's not how I want to proceed. Do you see Nesmith as more than a great shooter?
Think Herro with defense

[Dejounte]

Think Herro with defense

I wish Nesmith was part of the combine. Strong feeling his true wingspan is 7'0"+ making him a perfect size for a small forward. He could also be developed as a strong defender. He's got the tools.

[R. DeMurre]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1319305745016320000/ptr8xH6b_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider) Chad Ford (https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider) (https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider)Chad (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=51877)fordinsider





Impressive wingspans
Isaiah Stewart, Wash, +10.5” (6’ 7.25” ht, 7’ 4.75” wing)
Paul Eboua, Italy +9.5 (6’ 6” ht - 7’ 3.5” wing)
Udoka Azubuike, Kansas +9.25 (6’ 10” ht, 7’ 7.25” wing)
Robert Woodard III, Mississippi State + 8.5” (6’ 5.5” ht - 7’ 2” wing)

6:19pm · 11 Nov 2020 (https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/1326681034826555392) · TweetDeck (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

Gotta feel for Azubuike a bit-- a player in the past with his measurements, his stats, & his team's winning percentage would be a lock to go in the lottery, but in the three point era there's a chance he doesn't get picked until the second round.

[Atl Spur]

Zeus is a clown.......that’s all.

[exstatic]

Think Herro with defense

If he was Herro with defense, he’d go top 3 in this draft.

[Dejounte]

If he was Hero with defense, he’d go top 3 in this draft.

The only reason he wasn't was because he had gotten injured. Imagine if he continued the same production throughout the season. His numbers would have been historic.

[exstatic]

IF a deal like LMA+11 for Wiggins+2 happened, wouldn't that put the Spurs into the tax if DDR opted in?

A LMA+11 deal would bump the Spurs salaries up over $10 million between Wiggins and the salary difference between 2 and 11.

With Wiggins, #2, DDR, Murray, Gay, Mills, White, Walker, Johnson, Samanic, and DeMarre's Dead Money that's $ 126.15914 for only 10 players by my bad math.

The luxury tax is 132.627

They couldn't even keep Lyles in this scenario, and even renouncing Marco and Forbes, I don't think they could keep Poeltl on his 5.08787 qualifying offer without going into the tax.

You’re only taxed on the portion of your payroll that’s over the tax. If they go a mil or two over, it isn’t the end of the world.

[exstatic]

The only reason he wasn't was because he had gotten injured. Imagine if he continued the same production throughout the season. His numbers would have been historic.

So would Wiseman’s. It’s always hazardous to project a limited sample into a longer time frame.

[cjw]

Zeus is a clown.......that’s all.

Spurs being in “cap hell” is one of the most ignorant things I’ve seen on here. They’re in great shape. Being in cap hell really isn’t as big of a deal anymore in NBA with shorter term contracts. You can have cap albatrosses like John Wall, but because you can operate over the cap, there’s always flexibility.

Golden State is tight in that they can only offer the taxpayer MLE. But guys will always sign there on minimum deals anyway.

[Dejounte]

So would Wiseman’s. It’s always hazardous to project a limited sample into a longer time frame.

And Wiseman is still a top 3 pick...

[Dejounte]

Also, didn't Poku play only 11 games?

[Seventyniner]

You’re only taxed on the portion of your payroll that’s over the tax. If they go a mil or two over, it isn’t the end of the world.

But going into the tax means you don't get a share of the tax payments from other teams. Those could be huge this season, even if the owners and players agree to reduce the tax hit for this year.

[Dejounte]

My point is this:

Each player has a reason they are propelled to the projected pick that they are at.


Wiseman, with all his tools and athleticism, is a top 3 pick because of these things.

Nesmith with all his skill and physical attributes propelled him until it stopped when he got injured. His foot became a red flag.

Wiseman didn't have an injury. There were no red flags.

Nesmith without the injury would have kept propelling.

[pad300]

I think we need to define Cap Hell here...

Cap Hell - when you're paying a luxury repeater tax of $3.50 on every dollar added to the payroll, and a) need to move a lot of payroll to get under + b) need to fill roster spots for the upcoming seasons + c) because of long term contracts are locked into this space. Depending on your ownership, you are looking to dump talent to save money...

Operating above the cap but below the tax line ( like the Spurs and most other NBA teams) is not Cap Hell.

[pad300]

My point is this:

Each player has a reason they are propelled to the projected pick that they are at.


Wiseman, with all his tools and athleticism, is a top 3 pick because of these things.

Nesmith with all his skill and physical attributes propelled him until it stopped when he got injured. His foot became a red flag.

Wiseman didn't have an injury. There were no red flags.

Nesmith without the injury would have kept propelling.

Or you know, Nesmith might have been having a hot streak shooting, and might have recessed to the norm. Let's not get over our skis here...

[Dejounte]

Or you know, Nesmith might have been having a hot streak shooting, and might have recessed to the norm. Let's not get over our skis here...

I can see a hot streak working for five games, not 14.

[Degoat]

Jeff McDonald said the spurs worked out Theo Maldeon, don’t do it spurs lol I like him but we don’t need him

[bluebellmaniac]

6 crazy days until the draft. Six days for every possibility to be played out in how we want to play our hand. Do we move up, do we stay? Is the right move a move down with more options later?

Decisions, decisions...

[Degoat]

“The Spurs are up to something. League sources say they’re shopping point guard Patty Mills, with teams such as the Bucks and Sixers expressing interest. A deal with Philadelphia would probably bring back Josh Richardson, league sources say. They’re also looking to unload LaMarcus Aldridge and DeMar DeRozan; I’ve heard the Lakers have interest in acquiring DeRozan (for Kyle Kuzma and Danny Green), and as mentioned, the Warriors may want Aldridge.”

The Ringers updated Mock draft says this about the spurs at pick 11

[look_at_g_shred]

1326949066941427712

[R. DeMurre]

Mills to Philly makes sense if the Simmons-for-Harden rumors are true.

[RC_Drunkford]

“The Spurs are up to something. League sources say they’re shopping point guard Patty Mills, with teams such as the Bucks and Sixers expressing interest. A deal with Philadelphia would probably bring back Josh Richardson, league sources say. They’re also looking to unload LaMarcus Aldridge and DeMar DeRozan; I’ve heard the Lakers have interest in acquiring DeRozan (for Kyle Kuzma and Danny Green), and as mentioned, the Warriors may want Aldridge.”

The Ringers updated Mock draft says this about the spurs at pick 11

They should try to trade Gay and Mills for Horford if they ship out Aldridge. Horford makes a lot of sense for a fast pace game and would give them that veteran leadership


Mills to Philly makes sense if the Simmons-for-Harden rumors are true.

it also makes sense if they don't get Harden

I'm worried that if the Spurs move Mills it means they will resign Pop's favorite son Bryn Forbes

[The Truth #6]

Tangent:

This is atypical for the Spurs to be associated with so many trade speculations. I wonder if they (Pop and RC) are letting the GM have a little freedom to do things his way, because RC never worked the trade market very hard as far results go. When Presti was here he put together some truly complicated, elaborate trades, like the one that got us Ron Mercer and Hedo, if I remember correctly.

[Dejounte]

Soooo glad Vassell's trash ass hasn't been mention with the Spurs

[The Truth #6]

I'm just not that high on Nesmith as others are. And the injury concern makes me even less interested.

If Dejounte was leaving then I could see the logic, I suppose. But I don't find his defense to be as spectacular as others suggest, to me it is more like, "that's better then I thought for a guy that too easily looks lost dribbling the ball 3 times in a row." I'm being a little sarcastic, but for shooting with plus side I wonder if Saddiq Bey would offer more. His spot up shooting was in the 98th percentile, supposedly. And I don't even want us to draft Saddiq at 11, I'd rather have the other Bey, Tyler, on the team, but if the Spurs are prioritizing shooting, then Saddiq at least has more size and fits more of a position in need then Nesmith.

[Dejounte]

Kuzma and Green really isn't a bad deal for DeMar. DeMar would probably win a championship with the Lakers

[RC_Drunkford]

it should also be noted that Theo Maledon is mocked to be taken with the #21 76ers pick. Maybe they are targeting that pick with a Mills trade. They might think Maledon/Wiseman might pan out like Parker/Robinson

[Degoat]

I wonder if we’re hearing so many rumors because the spurs are trying to gather more assets to move up in the draft maybe

[Dejounte]

Saddiq is equivalent to a taller Bryn Forbes while Nesmith has an array of moves to get his shots up. Nesmith can create shot for others. Bey can't because he's a stiff and has literally zero burst and dribble moves.

[SpurPadre]

Saddiq is equivalent to a taller Bryn Forbes while Nesmith has an array of moves to get his shots up. Nesmith can create shot for others. Bey can't because he's a stiff and has literally zero burst and dribble moves.

So, Saddiq's defense is horrible?

[RC_Drunkford]

Saddiq is equivalent to a taller Bryn Forbes while Nesmith has an array of moves to get his shots up. Nesmith can create shot for others. Bey can't because he's a stiff and has literally zero burst and dribble moves.

Nesmith is neither known as a good passer nor a great finisher at the rim. He's a spot up/catch-and-shoot player. It's just that his shooting % is really intriguing. I wouldn't be mad if we draft him, but I doubt it.

By the way Kuzma and Green for DeRozan doesn't work salary wise. Lakers would have to add another 9 million

[The Truth #6]

Saddiq is equivalent to a taller Bryn Forbes while Nesmith has an array of moves to get his shots up. Nesmith can create shot for others. Bey can't because he's a stiff and has literally zero burst and dribble moves.

We agree on S. Bey. If the spurs had an additional early first round pick, then I could see drafting Nesmith at 11. But if 11 is all we get, I think they need to draft with higher upside in mind, which I don’t see with Nesmith so far. You seem to be up on his game… Do you have any video links that show his offensive upside?

[SpurPadre]

I mean, fuck helping LeBron get another ring.

[exstatic]

6 crazy days until the draft. Six days for every possibility to be played out in how we want to play our hand. Do we move up, do we stay? Is the right move a move down with more options later?

Decisions, decisions...

This isn’t the draft to move down. Spurs have drafted 5 first rounders in the last 4 drafts. The last thing we need are more picks in this draft.

[SpurPadre]

This isn’t the draft to move down. Spurs have drafted 5 first rounders in the last 4 drafts. The last thing we need are more picks in this draft.

But you'd be okay with #2 and somehow keeping #11, right?

[mo7888]

This isn’t the draft to move down. Spurs have drafted 5 first rounders in the last 4 drafts. The last thing we need are more picks in this draft.

If we are worried about to many picks this year maybe the play is lma to gs for next years minny pick and re-route wiggins to NY or Charlotte for an asset?

[Dejounte]

So, Saddiq's defense is horrible?

Maybe not. But a taller Bryn with defense is still someone I'd not use the 11th pick on.

[Dejounte]

We agree on S. Bey. If the spurs had an additional early first round pick, then I could see drafting Nesmith at 11. But if 11 is all we get, I think they need to draft with higher upside in mind, which I don’t see with Nesmith so far. You seem to be up on his game… Do you have any video links that show his offensive upside?
Maybe later. I have an appointment

[Dejounte]

Nesmith is neither known as a good passer nor a great finisher at the rim. He's a spot up/catch-and-shoot player. It's just that his shooting % is really intriguing. I wouldn't be mad if we draft him, but I doubt it.

By the way Kuzma and Green for DeRozan doesn't work salary wise. Lakers would have to add another 9 million

Spot up / catch and shoot player is something you say about Saddiq, not Aaron. Like I said earlier, he has an array of moves where he can shoot on the dribble.

[The Truth #6]

Maybe later. I have an appointment

Got it.

[ace3g]

Basically everything from the ringer article

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmpFGQfVMAAQbTS?format=png&name=large

James Wiseman:

Golden State Warriors
There isn’t a better place for Wiseman to address his weaknesses than Golden State. During the early stages of Wiseman’s NBA career, he could fill the rim-running/protecting role that JaVale McGee played for years, but he’d hopefully evolve into much more once his shot-creation and floor awareness improve. However, as ESPN’s Zach Lowe first reported, there is buzz that the Warriors want to use the pick to acquire Spurs big man LaMarcus Aldridge. If an Aldridge trade were to materialize, it would likely influence whom the Warriors select (especially if they are drafting for San Antonio).

[exstatic]

But you'd be okay with #2 and somehow keeping #11, right?

I guess that would be considered both moving up and staying put, so yes. No moving back, though.

[Sugus]

Basically everything from the ringer article

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmpFGQfVMAAQbTS?format=png&name=large

James Wiseman:

Golden State Warriors
There isn’t a better place for Wiseman to address his weaknesses than Golden State. During the early stages of Wiseman’s NBA career, he could fill the rim-running/protecting role that JaVale McGee played for years, but he’d hopefully evolve into much more once his shot-creation and floor awareness improve. However, as ESPN’s Zach Lowe first reported, there is buzz that the Warriors want to use the pick to acquire Spurs big man LaMarcus Aldridge. If an Aldridge trade were to materialize, it would likely influence whom the Warriors select (especially if they are drafting for San Antonio).

I truly wonder whether a scenario could arise where we ship LMA and someone like Gay or DJM for depth to GSW, and don't lose #11... It'd be ideal, and seems to be more feasible now that the Warriors' cap situation isn't looking so dire. Fingers crossed.

[cjw]

I truly wonder whether a scenario could arise where we ship LMA and someone like Gay or DJM for depth to GSW, and don't lose #11... It'd be ideal, and seems to be more feasible now that the Warriors' cap situation isn't looking so dire. Fingers crossed.

Wouldn’t a Murray trade have to wait until the new league year because of how his contract would be handled in a trade? Basically treated as current salary going out but new salary coming in, making matching hard?

If there is ever a year for an on the fly rebuild, it’s this one. A lot of buyers and very few sellers. Trading Demar to one contender will only improve the market for Aldridge given the lack of quality FA available. Every one of them + Mills + Gay + Murray should be explored to see what they can fetch.

[TD 21]

Being open to trading Mills is shocking (unless he's intimated that he prefers to sign with a contender next off season), but would be an indication of how committed they are to Forbes. In that scenario, I don't care if he's brought back on a reasonable contract to play a minimal role.

If the 76ers would do it for Richardson, he'd only make sense as an asset to reroute. He could be thrown into an offer for the 2nd pick.

[duncan2150]

Imo Mills situation has nothing to do with Forbes.

The Spurs have a lot of guards without both of them and maybe they will target one in the draft. So they can trade Patty ( wich i doubt a little) and not ressign forbes. All depends of the draft and other deals.

[rankingtear]

1326935991169536006

[look_at_g_shred]

1326935991169536006
Interesting. He's projected to go in the mid to late 20's . Not a fan btw

[mo7888]

Interesting. He's projected to go in the mid to late 20's . Not a fan btw

Maybe if we get the Philly pick in the rumored Mills trade? Or maybe they think he could drop to 41? I've seen him in the 2nd rd in a couple of mocks.

[Dejounte]

Interesting. He's projected to go in the mid to late 20's . Not a fan btw

This kid is so bad. Probably just looking at him to throw other teams off

[rankingtear]

This kid is so bad. Probably just looking at him to throw other teams off

Are you sure? Look at the teams he worked out with. All good drafting teams.

[Dejounte]

Are you sure? Look at the teams he worked out with. All good drafting teams.

He's projected to be in that range, i think that's all it is. Brooklyn had one good draft year and Toronto drafts well but not excellent. None of their picks really turn out into mega stars, just maybe one good one (Siakam).

[JuneJive]

Wasn't there some kind of an analysis of the best drafting teams in the last 5-10 yrs? As I recall, TOR was at the top of the list.

[SpurPadre]

Interesting. He's projected to go in the mid to late 20's . Not a fan btw


This kid is so bad. Probably just looking at him to throw other teams off

That's what I thought when I read that they were looking at Samanic last year, who was projected to go late 1st to early 2nd round.

[rankingtear]

Wasn't there some kind of an analysis of the best drafting teams in the last 5-10 yrs? As I recall, TOR was at the top of the list.

2010 to 2018 - Toronto was first followed by the Spurs.

https://thedataface.com/2019/06/sports/best-drafting-nba-teams

[talkspurs]

2010 to 2018 - Toronto was first followed by the Spurs.

https://thedataface.com/2019/06/sports/best-drafting-nba-teams

That was the 2010-2018 chart the since 2000 had the Spurs as the top and Toronto in the middle.

[ginobilized]

This is new territory for the Spurs if this is true. I hope it is!

Any chance they pull the trigger on Killian Hayes and offload DJM or White? #2 might be too high for him and #11 is too low. Just wondering, Hayes may have the highest ceiling.
Less than a week away!!!!

[SpurPadre]

This is new territory for the Spurs if this is true. I hope it is!

Any chance they pull the trigger on Killian Hayes and offload DJM or White? #2 might be too high for him and #11 is too low. Just wondering, Hayes may have the highest ceiling.
Less than a week away!!!!

If we get #2, we're getting Wiseman or Avdija.

[Prime BEEF]

If we get #2, we're getting Wiseman or Avdija.
Please don’t get Deni. He’s going to bust so hard

[The Truth #6]

Basically everything from the ringer article

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EmpFGQfVMAAQbTS?format=png&name=large

James Wiseman:

Golden State Warriors
There isn’t a better place for Wiseman to address his weaknesses than Golden State. During the early stages of Wiseman’s NBA career, he could fill the rim-running/protecting role that JaVale McGee played for years, but he’d hopefully evolve into much more once his shot-creation and floor awareness improve. However, as ESPN’s Zach Lowe first reported, there is buzz that the Warriors want to use the pick to acquire Spurs big man LaMarcus Aldridge. If an Aldridge trade were to materialize, it would likely influence whom the Warriors select (especially if they are drafting for San Antonio).

Without getting into the trade aspects, what is interesting in that blurb is that the Spurs are linked with Saddiq Bey (whom I think they will grab), but also Tyrese Maxey whom I am high on, as well as Jaden McDaniels. I see Jaden as a second round upside pick, but doubt he’ll be there at 41, though I think he would frustrate Pop, and if there is no Gleague this year, Jaden wouldn't have much to do.

Another thought, it is entirely possible and perhaps likely the Spurs draft a player they don’t even work out. They love the trickery and with all the trade rumors circulating I think most of it is smoke screen for something we aren’t aware of yet.

[rankingtear]

Workout updates:
- Deni, Pat, Okongwu, Nesmith, Maledon

Possible ( prospects who didn't disclose workouts but connected with spurs )
- Saddiq, Jalen

Confirmed no spur workout in our range
- Vassell, Okoro, Hayes, Hali, Maxey ( only 1 team NO ) , Lewis, Achiuwa, Hampton

[BackHome]

Can you imagine if we were able to pull off trades for LMA, DEROZZ, and Mills? Man this forum would shut down from the amount of traffic it would get.

[PhantomDashCam]

Without getting into the trade aspects, what is interesting in that blurb is that the Spurs are linked with Saddiq Bey (whom I think they will grab), but also Tyrese Maxey whom I am high on, as well as Jaden McDaniels. I see Jaden as a second round upside pick, but doubt he’ll be there at 41, though I think he would frustrate Pop, and if there is no Gleague this year, Jaden wouldn't have much to do.

Another thought, it is entirely possible and perhaps likely the Spurs draft a player they don’t even work out. They love the trickery and with all the trade rumors circulating I think most of it is smoke screen for something we aren’t aware of yet.

I like McDaniels and would be fine with him at 11 or later if we acquire another 1st.
I think he is actually a 2-3 hybrid at 6 ft 10, extremely rare. Yes he will take some time and may ultimately bust but like Def Leppard said “It’s better to burn out than fade away.”

This video is an interview with the Washington head coach about McDaniels and misconceptions about his attitude. More about maturity than anything else it seems.


https://youtu.be/JRb8fXsWjDU

[BackHome]

I don’t want McDaniels he seems to be the Anti Spurs type of player and one who Pop will not want on this team hard pass

[PhantomDashCam]

I don’t want McDaniels he seems to be the Anti Spurs type of player and one who Pop will not want on this team hard pass

Watch the video if get a chance, may change your mind.

[The Truth #6]

Watch the video if get a chance, may change your mind.

I thought I was the only one intrigued by Jaden. Nice video. The coach has to say something nice, but he had decent responses. Jaden’s height and potential and, oddly, drop in the draft boards definitely makes me think the Spurs are considering him.

[Degoat]

I agree on Jaden too, I’ve been watching more film on him and if he hits his potential he could be awesome but the 11th pick is a bit early

[PhantomDashCam]

I agree on Jaden too, I’ve been watching more film on him and if he hits his potential he could be awesome but the 11th pick is a bit early

There are safer bets to be had at 11 for sure, but next to perhaps RJ Hampton - not sure there is a greater/risk reward pick, that doesn’t appear to be disproportionately weighted to the negative. Sorry Poku fans.

[TDMVPDPOY]

if patfo trade for a lottery pick, they going to give the player minutes? or bury them at the end of the bench?

[offset formation]

I have a suspicion that if the Spurs are trying to move up it's for Deni. He is exactly the kind of player that Pop covets.

[look_at_g_shred]

if patfo trade for a lottery pick, they going to give the player minutes? or bury them at the end of the bench?
They already own a lottery pick

[buttsR4rebounding]

I have a suspicion that if the Spurs are trying to move up it's for Deni. He is exactly the kind of player that Pop covets.

Also it seems that international players are more inclined to stay with their original team if they become stars.

[Dejounte]

Also it seems that international players are more inclined to stay with their original team if they become stars.

Any of these will stay with the Spurs:

1) small town country boy kid - Halliburton
2) idolizes Spurs legends - Wiseman
3) international - Deni

[Dejounte]

Any of these will stay with the Spurs:

1) small town country boy kid - Halliburton
2) idolizes Spurs legends - Wiseman
3) international - Deni

4) rough childhood - Lonnie, Murray
5) overlooked/ late bloomer - Derrick White

[buttsR4rebounding]

I’m not saying no one else will stay. And idolization will only go so far. If they both became All Stars who do you think would be more likely to stay?

[poopbox]

i would think if we are talking to GS about the number 2 pick then Deni would be the guy we would be after...

[Dejounte]

I’m not saying no one else will stay. And idolization will only go so far. If they both became All Stars who do you think would be more likely to stay?
Wasn't arguing with you. Just adding onto the scope of who I believe would be willing to stay past their contract.

[The Truth #6]

Taking on Wiggins for Deni? That’s a risky move for lots of reasons. Wiggins and Deni would likely be competing for the same minutes, for one.

[playblair]

I don’t want McDaniels he seems to be the Anti Spurs type of player and one who Pop will not want on this team hard pass
da fook???? jaden is the prototypical humble spurs type player da fook u come to the conclusion he is anti spur

[DAF86]

1326862966743031808

lol fuck that shit.

[BackHome]

da fook???? jaden is the prototypical humble spurs type player da fook u come to the conclusion he is anti spur

For me looking at his following issues:

1. Leads the PAC 12 with 72 turnovers
2. League leader in Personal fouls over 60
3. Has had 5 technical fouls which leads conference
4. Terrible Shot Selection
5. Poor body language - He pouts
6. Was benched two games for ? Not being hurt

His last game he came off the bench and was 0 for 4 in a loss.

[The Truth #6]

lol fuck that shit.

Right? What team isn’t a natural trade partner if we’re giving away our best player.

[The Truth #6]

For me looking at his following issues:

1. Leads the PAC 12 with 72 turnovers
2. League leader in Personal fouls over 60
3. Has had 5 technical fouls which leads conference
4. Terrible Shot Selection
5. Poor body language - He pouts
6. Was benched two games for ? Not being hurt

His last game he came off the bench and was 0 for 4 in a loss.

Well, yeah, sure, there’s that. Personally, I want to like him and believe he is a sleeper, but there are many factors against him.

[Thomas82]

Taking on Wiggins for Deni? That’s a risky move for lots of reasons. Wiggins and Deni would likely be competing for the same minutes, for one.

Right on!! If the Spurs are giving up Aldridge to move up to #2, it better be for Wiseman unless they want to start the season with a gaping hole on their front line.

[The Truth #6]

https://youtu.be/wyj-g9npF34

Recent Jaden McDaniels video.

I have to admit, his shooting form looks way better. Before he was doing this awful kick out with his legs, and that’s gone now. And his handle looks better as well. Again, picking him at 11 would be risky, but less risky than trading Derrick White to move up spots to draft Patrick Williams.

[pad300]

There are safer bets to be had at 11 for sure, but next to perhaps RJ Hampton - not sure there is a greater/risk reward pick, that doesn’t appear to be disproportionately weighted to the negative. Sorry Poku fans.

So you think that a kid who isn't getting it done against other kids in the NCAA is a better risk/reward ratio than a kid the same age who is getting it done in a pro men's league (albeit a lower tier one)... well, I guess you're entitled to an opinion...

[The Truth #6]

So you think that a kid who isn't getting it done against other kids in the NCAA is a better risk/reward ratio than a kid the same age who is getting it done in a pro men's league (albeit a lower tier one)... well, I guess you're entitled to an opinion...

I didn’t think people looked at RJ’s season as being all that great, a let down, if anything. Jaden’s was also a let down, which is why their stock has fallen.

[PhantomDashCam]

So you think that a kid who isn't getting it done against other kids in the NCAA is a better risk/reward ratio than a kid the same age who is getting it done in a pro men's league (albeit a lower tier one)... well, I guess you're entitled to an opinion...

You’re talking about Poku right?

How does he handle the transition to the United States? International NBA prospects at times don’t fail because of talent, there are language and cultural borders to overcome. At such a young age, cultural upheaval can be challenging.

At this stage he doesn’t have a position on defence. He is the ultimate tweener.

His overall medical information is sketchy. He decided not to partake in the NBA combine so there isn’t solid, concrete up to date information available for him.

I think Poku is a greater risk, all things considered than McDaniels.

[pad300]

I didn’t think people looked at RJ’s season as being all that great, a let down, if anything. Jaden’s was also a let down, which is why their stock has fallen.

You realize that's Poku, that I'm comparing to Jaden there... Although in terms of success, you could say the same thing about Hampton vs Poku, only one of them is getting it done.

[BackHome]

Sorry would look at him in second round but no way in hell would I pick him at 11 that makes no sense.

[Dejounte]

I have some news for yall regarding several prospects and the Spurs ...

[Degoat]

I have some news for yall regarding several prospects and the Spurs ...

whatcha you got for us? Lol

[Dejounte]

I have some news for yall regarding several prospects and the Spurs ...

SOCIAL MEDIA SCOOP:

Dejounte Murray has NEW followers on IG: Xavier Tillman, Terry Armstrong
*he does not follow either of them back yet*

Keldon Johnson has NEW followers on IG: Robert Woodard II ( mo7888 ) , Reggie Perry, James Wiseman!!! ( Thomas82) .... y'all already knew about Okoro from my last report.
*He follows James Wiseman back! He doesn't follow either Robert or Reggie.

James Wiseman also follows Lonnie Walker and Lonnie follows him back!


That ends my news report...

IT'S HAPPENING FELLAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[look_at_g_shred]

SOCIAL MEDIA SCOOP:

Dejounte Murray has NEW followers on IG: Xavier Tillman, Terry Armstrong
*he does not follow either of them back yet*

Keldon Johnson has NEW followers on IG: Robert Woodard II ( mo7888 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=43104) ) , Reggie Perry, James Wiseman!!! ( Thomas82 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=4879)) .... y'all already knew about Okoro from my last report.
*He follows James Wiseman back! He doesn't follow either Robert or Reggie.

James Wiseman also follows Lonnie Walker and Lonnie follows him back!


That ends my news report...

IT'S HAPPENING FELLAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bro..... **crying emoji***

[The Truth #6]

You realize that's Poku, that I'm comparing to Jaden there... Although in terms of success, you could say the same thing about Hampton vs Poku, only one of them is getting it done.

I think the issue with all three of them is that they’re not really getting it done in any large sample size. To say Poku is a safe pick seems like a stretch. He is the ultimate high risk/reward pick in this draft.

I actually think Poku is too tall for his skills and game. A 7 foot guard who can’t defend the perimeter. Jaden seems much more natural in his body and doesn’t look like he’s about to break in half. In the end, I think Poku is overrated by some and Jaden is underrated by others, but both of them have red flags to some degree.

[Dejounte]

Bro..... **crying emoji***

I was looking through who else James Wiseman follows on social media from other teams, and I don't see him following any young players from other NBA teams... (correct me if I'm wrong)

IS IT A DONE FUCKING DEAL!??!?!

[look_at_g_shred]

I was looking through who else James Wiseman follows on social media from other teams, and I don't see him following any young players from other NBA teams... (correct me if I'm wrong)

IS IT A DONE FUCKING DEAL!??!?!
Is this twitter? I checked on IG and it looks like he and towns follow each other too...shit? But yeah IG he and Keldon both follow each other along with Lonnie..DJ doesn't follow him back.

[Dejounte]

I was looking through who else James Wiseman follows on social media from other teams, and I don't see him following any young players from other NBA teams... (correct me if I'm wrong)

IS IT A DONE FUCKING DEAL!??!?!

James Wiseman follows Luka Doncic (but Dallas has no hopes of trading up), Kabengele, Bradley Beal (come on tho, he ain't falling to the Wizards), Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis, Darius Bazley, RJ Barrett, Nassir Little.

[Dejounte]

Is this twitter? I checked on IG and it looks like he and towns follow each other too...shit? But yeah IG he and Keldon both follow each other along with Lonnie..DJ doesn't follow him back.

I missed Towns... but odds are against the T-Wolves drafting him. We'll see.

[RC_Drunkford]

I'm wondering why everybody thinks Wiseman would become a franchise player? To me he has some huge red flags, like his mobility. Scouting reports say that he's slow footed and can't guard the pick & roll well

[Dejounte]

I'm wondering why everybody thinks Wiseman would become a franchise player? To me he has some huge red flags, like his mobility. Scouting reports say that he's slow footed and can't guard the pick & roll well

We have very little to go by. None of us are experts here, but you'd have to think that if the Spurs are willing to lose some assets to move up and draft him that he could very well be a franchise player. Same can be said about any player who they end up drafting in the top 5 if they trade up. We'll see....

But to answer your question, when I watch him his athleticism is eye popping. I don't buy that he's slow footed, he moves around the court like Anthony Davis out there... Also, he exhibits great footwork and can hit a turnaround J like Timmy.

[Dejounte]

If we end up with both Jalen and Wiseman...

https://media2.giphy.com/media/2dayZAfIAuQHS/giphy.gif

[Dejounte]

I know people are saying that 2021 prospects are going to be way good for wing prospects, but is it good for bigs too? Is this year's crop of bigs better than next year's? Who's keeping up with all that?

[The Truth #6]

I can’t tell if people are being sarcastic about the significance of IG in all this...

[Dejounte]

I can’t tell if people are being sarcastic about the significance of IG in all this...

We're all equivalent to homeless people starving for scoops with how slow the offseason is and how tight lipped the Spurs are as an organization... you've got to read the signs, and who knows if they're real? If they're real, then they can apply to future years... You can't dismiss every little thing, you might miss out on useful things.

[Dejounte]

With how secretive the Spurs are, there is about a 5% chance to get any leak from them. Technology is changing fast, and it is their only enemy as far as confidentiality. Technology is something the Spurs can't control.

[The Truth #6]

We're all equivalent to homeless people starving for scoops with how slow the offseason is and how tight lipped the Spurs are as an organization... you've got to read the signs, and who knows if they're real? If they're real, then they can apply to future years... You can't dismiss every little thing, you might miss out on useful things.

Sure. I see it more as where prospects would like to go, but not an indication of the team showing their hand.

[spurspl]

James Wiseman follows Luka Doncic (but Dallas has no hopes of trading up), Kabengele, Bradley Beal (come on tho, he ain't falling to the Wizards), Kevin Durant, Anthony Davis, Darius Bazley, RJ Barrett, Nassir Little.

he also follows devonte graham, pj washington, coby white, wendell carter and many more on IG

[Dejounte]

Sure. I see it more as where prospects would like to go, but not an indication of the team showing their hand.

We'll see. If I was a prospect and I was a fan of a team/ wanted to go to a certain team, I would follow instead a team's more renowned players such as Ginobili, Parker... Lonnie and Keldon barely have any clout in the NBA, they're not known enough to where if you are a casual NBA fan, you'll instantly know who they are. Because of this, it indicates to me they somehow met and there was probably an introduction to the Spurs. You can't ignore the part where Lonnie and Keldon followed him back. That is a big piece of the puzzle here if you're a detective and you're deducing what this "little" action means.

[Dejounte]

he also follows devonte graham, pj washington, coby white, wendell carter and many more on IG

Thanks for pointing that out. I guess the question is if he had been following those players for awhile or if it was new. I know for a fact Wiseman following both Keldon and Lonnie is a recent thing.

[Dejounte]

he also follows devonte graham, pj washington, coby white, wendell carter and many more on IG

I checked out if any of these players you listed followed Wiseman back, and they don't. Hmm...

[RC_Drunkford]

We have very little to go by. None of us are experts here, but you'd have to think that if the Spurs are willing to lose some assets to move up and draft him that he could very well be a franchise player. Same can be said about any player who they end up drafting in the top 5 if they trade up. We'll see....

But to answer your question, when I watch him his athleticism is eye popping. I don't buy that he's slow footed, he moves around the court like Anthony Davis out there... Also, he exhibits great footwork and can hit a turnaround J like Timmy.

Yeah, if it's fixable that would be huge. I think his skillset and potential is very intriguing and the fact that he can run and handle the ball in transition fits the other young guys perfectly. He's suited for a fast pace game, which is the main reason why we should move Aldridge. I really like his potential as a shooter. He was nailing some 3s in this video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvVylKWyq7A

[Dejounte]

We're all equivalent to homeless people starving for scoops with how slow the offseason is and how tight lipped the Spurs are as an organization... you've got to read the signs, and who knows if they're real? If they're real, then they can apply to future years... You can't dismiss every little thing, you might miss out on useful things.

To expand on this idea,

Who would have thought our social media patterns would be USED as data by big companies for them to understand how they can advertise to us?

Social media is nothing to scoff at.

Our privacy is being invaded like it's nothing. In fact, they definitely know that you browse this forum on an average 8 hours a day and they'll use that information somehow.

See "The Social Dilemma" on Netflix. It's good.

[playblair]

I'm wondering why everybody thinks Wiseman would become a franchise player? To me he has some huge red flags, like his mobility. Scouting reports say that he's slow footed and can't guard the pick & roll well
he was a bust in college for the few games he played........pass on wiseman......jaden is the real prize of this draft despie what BackHome says

[RC_Drunkford]

he was a bust in college for the few games he played........pass on wiseman......jaden is the real prize of this draft despie what BackHome (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=16032) says

Says the guy who thinks Dejuan Blair is a legend

[Thomas82]

If we end up with both Jalen and Wiseman...

https://media2.giphy.com/media/2dayZAfIAuQHS/giphy.gif

I would lose my mind if that happened!!

[Degoat]

If we land Wiseman, I’ll pay whatever it costs for his fiesta jersey lol

[barakz21]

Erm.. how many days to the draft again? 4 or 5?

[bluebellmaniac]

Currently at 5 days until the draft (Central Time), will be 4 days until the draft in 30 minutes.

[ginobilized]

Wiseman and Jalen would be the bomb, Dejounte!
I was thinking the same thing. I hope that the Twolves don’t nab him.

[Degoat]

What’s gonna be so interesting about this draft that I think fans and even draft analysts wont know to much about is how some of these kids might have improved since their college season ended.

[Thomas82]

Wiseman and Jalen would be the bomb, Dejounte!
I was thinking the same thing. I hope that the Twolves don’t nab him.

LaMelo Ball is the name I keep hearing for them. He's met with the Wolves more than once.

[R. DeMurre]

What’s gonna be so interesting about this draft that I think fans and even draft analysts wont know to much about is how some of these kids might have improved since their college season ended.

Very true... or the opposite. I saw an article today that quoted an anonymous front office guy who said one prospect he talked to admitted he hadn't played any team basketball since March, and had only worked out alone with a trainer. I'm sure the kid's agent wouldn't be happy to hear about that.

[SpurPadre]

Very true... or the opposite. I saw an article today that quoted an anonymous front office guy who said one prospect he talked to admitted he hadn't played any team basketball since March, and had only worked out alone with a trainer. I'm sure the kid's agent wouldn't be happy to hear about that.

I mean, it's not really a secret that these kids would be limited for not playing organized basketball during the pandemic. They can't dress that up.

[R. DeMurre]

I mean, it's not really a secret that these kids would be limited for not playing organized basketball during the pandemic. They can't dress that up.

I'll look for the article... but this kid said he hadn't even played pick up games-- literally no basketball at all, only work outs.

[bluebellmaniac]

4 days until D-Day.

[NickiRasgo]

If there's no trade will happen involving picks, I kinda liked the idea of drafting Saddiq Bey instead of Patrick Williams or any prospect who will be a project for the 11th pick. He seems a safe pick to compliment the Spurs' young cores since he has the potential to be a solid role-player like Robert Covington.
They could just skip this draft hoping for their next big star potential because this draft is so weak that I'm not even not sold with Anthony Edwards or James Wiseman to be a star, I could see Lamelo Ball succeeds tho.

Spurs should just focus complimenting their young cores and focus themselves in 2021 draft and off-season - no need to rush.

[NickiRasgo]

But if they drafted Saddiq Bey, I think there's also chance that a trade will happen between the Warriors and Spurs.
Sucks for the Spurs if James Wiseman (assuming drafted 2nd( turns out to be a bust and Saddiq Bey turns out to be a solid role-player especially with the Warriors.

[ginobilized]

What a wild draft to plan for. The contingency plans for every foreseeable possibility is above my pay grade.
The more options, the better. Gives us a punchers chance that something good lands through trades, draft, or free agency.
Whether its DDR, LMA, moving up in the draft, nabbing the right player at 11, more is better.
Can't wait to see how it unfolds.

[exstatic]

But if they drafted Saddiq Bey, I think there's also chance that a trade will happen between the Warriors and Spurs.
Sucks for the Spurs if James Wiseman (assuming drafted 2nd( turns out to be a bust and Saddiq Bey turns out to be a solid role-player especially with the Warriors.

Players are rarely, in a vacuum, a bust. They either go to an organization with a rep for player development, or they struggle. I like the star chances, maybe 2-3 years down the line, of anyone we might draft at #2.

[bluebellmaniac]

3 unbelievable days until the draft. Get your predictions in now. Get it in writing, or stfu later..

[Dejounte]

Damnit I don't want to get my hopes up that we're trading up. Just gonna keep telling myself it's not happening. These are going to be three long fucking days. Imma try and keep myself busy

[Dex]

3 unbelievable days until the draft. Get your predictions in now. Get it in writing, or stfu later..

This may be one of the few years where people can make an educated guess in the last two decades. A lot easier to predict at 11 then the relative crapshoot a 25th-30th pick could be.

The Spurs should be guaranteed a good talent...but I haven't kept up well enough to have any idea who it will be.

[Dejounte]

This may be one of the few years where people can make an educated guess in the last two decades. A lot easier to predict at 11 then the relative crapshoot a 25th-30th pick could be.

The Spurs should be guaranteed a good talent...but I haven't kept up well enough to have any idea who it will be.

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287933&p=10336062#post10336062

Spurstalk favorite over the course of three months. By the third month, you can assume people did some research vs when they first voted in the first month.

[Dex]

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287933&p=10336062#post10336062

Spurstalk favorite over the course of three months. By the third month, you can assume people did some research vs when they first voted in the first month.

Excellent content Dejounte :tu

[Dverde]

I can’t wait to see which draft pick won’t play until the second half of the season!

[JuneJive]

Stewart looks promising.

Might sound crazy, but I wouldn't mind him at #11.

[exstatic]

I can’t wait to see which draft pick won’t play until the second half of the season!

If it’s Wiseman, that might really happen. Look at Rudy Gobert. Rookie year, gleague 8 games 14p/11r/3bl NBA 45 games 2.3p/3.4R/0.9bl. He went on to be an AS, 3 time All NBA, and 4 time All D.

[The Truth #6]

https://theknickswall.com/kira-lewis-jr-vs-tyrese-maxey-which-draft-point-guard-is-worth-investment/

If the Spurs trade DMDR, they will need someone to help with ball handling, and so I am preparing myself for the possibility they don't draft a wing but another guard.

This is an interesting comparison of Kira Lewis vs Tyrese Maxey. Granted it's from a Knick's perspective of what their team needs, but a solid assessment of each player.

Personally, I'm still very high on Maxey as a player, though I admit his fit with the team may not be easy. But if Demar is gone, the needs of the team may change. Oddly, I see Maxey as having some of the same qualities as Keldon, to be honest: great personality that acculturates easily within a team; extremely motivated, loves the game, very hard worker, casually confident, very strong and rugged, and plays larger than his size. I'm not talking about specific skills but his personality and approach to the game. I do think Maxey will show more than he did at college. I think his flat shot can be fixed. I think he showed more lead guard tendencies in HS before his time at Kentucky.

[Sugus]

https://theknickswall.com/kira-lewis-jr-vs-tyrese-maxey-which-draft-point-guard-is-worth-investment/

If the Spurs trade DMDR, they will need someone to help with ball handling, and so I am preparing myself for the possibility they don't draft a wing but another guard.

This is an interesting comparison of Kira Lewis vs Tyrese Maxey. Granted it's from a Knick's perspective of what their team needs, but a solid assessment of each player.

Personally, I'm still very high on Maxey as a player, though I admit his fit with the team may not be easy. But if Demar is gone, the needs of the team may change. Oddly, I see Maxey as having some of the same qualities as Keldon, to be honest: great personality that acculturates easily within a team; extremely motivated, loves the game, very hard worker, casually confident, very strong and rugged, and plays larger than his size. I'm not talking about specific skills but his personality and approach to the game. I do think Maxey will show more than he did at college. I think his flat shot can be fixed. I think he showed more lead guard tendencies in HS before his time at Kentucky.

I don't think the Spurs are really lacking ball handlers, even with DeRozan gone. All of White, Dejounte, Lonnie and Keldon play (or should play) ball-dominant games next season to help and speed up their development - the thing is, they're probably suck at it for a while (Lonnie and DJ especially) in growing pains. I wouldn't draft a guard over a big or wing simply because of the need to replace DD's touches, and instead hope one or many of the youngings can grow into that role of primary initiator/distributor, especially in crunch time.

That aside, you always draft BPA. Question - if the Spurs trade up to #2, would you say there's any guard deserving of the pick over Wiseman/Deni? Would you draft e.g. Ball #2?

[cjw]

That aside, you always draft BPA. Question - if the Spurs trade up to #2, would you say there's any guard deserving of the pick over Wiseman/Deni? Would you draft e.g. Ball #2?

This x100. Especially as basketball becomes more positionless. You can always trade down if fit isn’t right.

You draft for fit only if there’s no clear cut guys at that spot, and you’re competing for a championship (late first round, for example, if a title contender, can take a guy with less ceiling if he can contribute right away).

[PhantomDashCam]

Stewart looks promising.

Might sound crazy, but I wouldn't mind him at #11.

Not crazy at all. My best big man after Wiseman.
Along with Desmond Bane, don’t think there is a safer prospect in the draft but Stewarts’s ceiling is much higher.

Here he is pre-game from back in Jan/Feb working on his shot before a game.

https://www.si.com/college/washington/basketball/stewart-put-the-work-in-on-his-3-point-shot

He understands what he needs to do to be successful at the next level and has the tools, work ethic and character necessary to obtain it.

My “Fab Five” prospects who I would be happy with, (taking into account 1 pick per position.):

PG: Kira Lewis
SG: Desmond Bane
SF: Jayden McDaniels
PF: Isaiah Stewart
C: James Wiseman

If we grab any of these guys in the draft, will be thrilled.

[Russ]

There's so much chaos in the air right now.

The draft, FA, training camp and the season opener all squeezed into 30 days.

My hope is that the Spurs' methodical approach will allow them to use the chaos others are experiencing to their advantage -- that they can be the calm within the storm.

If they trade up, I hope it is for Wiseman, Okongwu or Avdija.

Do it Spurs!

[The Truth #6]

I don't think the Spurs are really lacking ball handlers, even with DeRozan gone. All of White, Dejounte, Lonnie and Keldon play (or should play) ball-dominant games next season to help and speed up their development - the thing is, they're probably suck at it for a while (Lonnie and DJ especially) in growing pains. I wouldn't draft a guard over a big or wing simply because of the need to replace DD's touches, and instead hope one or many of the youngings can grow into that role of primary initiator/distributor, especially in crunch time.

That aside, you always draft BPA. Question - if the Spurs trade up to #2, would you say there's any guard deserving of the pick over Wiseman/Deni? Would you draft e.g. Ball #2?

Fair points. Perhaps I should simplify my reasoning: I think Maxey has solid two-way abilities and I’d like to see him on the team somehow.

To answer your last question, there is no way I trade up to 2 and risk drafting Lamelo. I think it has to be Wiseman, but I think his role with the team, at least under Pop, might not ever get beyond a Clint Capela role. I think Deni would have more success under Pop. So that’s a conundrum for me, in general, what to do with #2 if we somehow ended up there (which I don’t think we will).

[Dejounte]

Fair points. Perhaps I should simplify my reasoning: I think Maxey has solid two-way abilities and I’d like to see him on the team somehow.

To answer your last question, there is no way I trade up to 2 and risk drafting Lamelo. I think it has to be Wiseman, but I think his role with the team, at least under Pop, might not ever get beyond a Clint Capela role. I think Deni would have more success under Pop. So that’s a conundrum for me, in general, what to do with #2 if we somehow ended up there (which I don’t think we will).

This is the same Pop that had Tim Duncan and Dave Rob, man. If Wiseman is as talented, he won't be relegated to a Clint type role. He'll only be that if he doesn't have enough talent, and fans will hate it.

[exstatic]

Fair points. Perhaps I should simplify my reasoning: I think Maxey has solid two-way abilities and I’d like to see him on the team somehow.

To answer your last question, there is no way I trade up to 2 and risk drafting Lamelo. I think it has to be Wiseman, but I think his role with the team, at least under Pop, might not ever get beyond a Clint Capela role. I think Deni would have more success under Pop. So that’s a conundrum for me, in general, what to do with #2 if we somehow ended up there (which I don’t think we will).

I can’t see the drafting Ball if he fell to #11. I think they’d trade back, and collect some assets. PATFOs had their fill of fucked up family dynamics.

[exstatic]

This is the same Pop that had Tim Duncan and Dave Rob, man. If Wiseman is as talented, he won't be relegated to a Clint type role. He'll only be that if he doesn't have enough talent, and fans will hate it.

He’s really young, and probably won’t show a lot until year three. Bam really didn’t. Just check Gobert’s rookie stats, and he was 21. He then proceeded to be an All Star, 3 time All NBA, and 4 time All D. He’s two years away. Be excited if we get him, but don’t be excited for this year. If he were ready, we wouldn’t get a shot at him.

[Dejounte]

He’s really young, and probably won’t show a lot until year three. Bam really didn’t. Just check Gobert’s rookie stats, and he was 21. He then proceeded to be an All Star, 3 time All NBA, and 4 time All D. He’s two years away. Be excited if we get him, but don’t be excited for this year. If he were ready, we wouldn’t get a shot at him.

Yeah, I wasn't talking about the first few years. Just talking in general. Maybe I misunderstood the post, but I thought he was saying Pop wouldn't know how to handle a big.

[rankingtear]

Wiseman hasn't played team basketball in more than a year.

[cjw]

If you can grab 2 and your target is Avdija or someone else, and Charlotte is all in on getting Wiseman - can always swap back a spot and pick up something. Spurs may have the best assets that the Warriors want of all the teams trying to trade up to 2 (star that fits with core like a glove, some other role players that could interest Warriors). Get that deal done, and see if you can milk it for more if Wiseman isn’t who you want.

[SpurPadre]

He’s really young, and probably won’t show a lot until year three. Bam really didn’t. Just check Gobert’s rookie stats, and he was 21. He then proceeded to be an All Star, 3 time All NBA, and 4 time All D. He’s two years away. Be excited if we get him, but don’t be excited for this year. If he were ready, we wouldn’t get a shot at him.

But this is presupposing there's a clear certainty that Wiseman isn't ready, which no one cannot definitely say, especially given the unique circumstances the pandemic has put these players under. This draft is arguably the greatest unknown entering any draft in the modern NBA era other than the fact that it lacks many high-ceiling, potential superstars. What is known is that Wiseman is one of the few that has that potential. Who truly knows if he's ready or not?

[objective]

I do agree that a pitfall with Wiseman is the year in his teens without basketball

Often Centers or bigs who miss a year in their teens never reach their potential. Mitchell Robinson didn't make a jump year 1 to year 2 and seems like he's at risk for plateau. Enes Kanter never became the all-star big after that year redshirting at Kentucky. Nerlens Noel never added skill after getting hurt as a freshman and missing his rookie year. Harry Giles didn't just lose athletic gifts, but couldn't even get his fourth year option picked up by the Kings.

So yeah, I don't think Wiseman reaches the high-level sure-thing all-star potential. He should still be pretty good, and that's entertaining enough.

[Dejounte]

I do agree that a pitfall with Wiseman is the year in his teens without basketball

Often Centers or bigs who miss a year in their teens never reach their potential. Mitchell Robinson didn't make a jump year 1 to year 2 and seems like he's at risk for plateau. Enes Kanter never became the all-star big after that year redshirting at Kentucky. Nerlens Noel never added skill after getting hurt as a freshman and missing his rookie year. Harry Giles didn't just lose athletic gifts, but couldn't even get his fourth year option picked up by the Kings.

So yeah, I don't think Wiseman reaches the high-level sure-thing all-star potential. He should still be pretty good, and that's entertaining enough.

Didn't Toppin lose a year?

[objective]

Didn't Toppin lose a year?

reshirted his age 19 season. And while his offense doesn't look like he lost anything by it, his defense sure looks lost.

Embiid didn't get his injuries until he was already 20. However, there was a recent podcast where I think Ford or Hollinger or Russilo waxed poetic about seeing Embiid during that year improve game to game like and marvel at the improvement over the season, and it was his age 19 season. If he had gotten hurt at the start of the season instead of the end, would the same improvement have occured?

[tim_duncan_fan]

Didn't Toppin lose a year?

I don't believe in Toppin as a lotto guy.

He's going to be a journeyman.

[exstatic]

But this is presupposing there's a clear certainty that Wiseman isn't ready, which no one cannot definitely say, especially given the unique circumstances the pandemic has put these players under. This draft is arguably the greatest unknown entering any draft in the modern NBA era other than the fact that it lacks many high-ceiling, potential superstars. What is known is that Wiseman is one of the few that has that potential. Who truly knows if he's ready or not?
I can tell you right now, he’s not ready, and I’m one of of his biggest proponents. He’s played 3 college games, so you can basically consider him a HS draftee. Look at Gobert as a baseline. He was 21 when drafted, and played in the French league, probably the second best in Europe after Spain. His rookie stats were 2.3p/3.4r/0.9bl in 45 games, and he had a couple more years of higher level ball than Wiseman. If you’re expecting ANYTHING this year, you’re setting yourself up for major disappointment.

[playblair]

its evident that none of u in this thread watched cbb..........wiseman is going to be an anthony bennett bust..........toppin/jaden r the must haves in this draft.......toppin is the future of the nba

[SpurPadre]

I can tell you right now, he’s not ready, and I’m one of of his biggest proponents. He’s played 3 college games, so you can basically consider him a HS draftee. Look at Gobert as a baseline. He was 21 when drafted, and played in the French league, probably the second best in Europe after Spain. His rookie stats were 2.3p/3.4r/0.9bl in 45 games, and he had a couple more years of higher level ball than Wiseman. If you’re expecting ANYTHING this year, you’re setting yourself up for major disappointment.

Completely understandable. Still, if this were the case, and Pop is likely to retire after this coming season, would they really be trying this hard to get a project? Wouldn't Pop want someone who is ready with the #2 pick, if they can trade up to get it? I can't see Pop in his likely final season, not go for the most NBA ready player possible. So, if he's truly not ready and we land the #2 pick, PATFO might get Deni instead or maybe even Toppin. I can't see the latter but if we truly are interested in Wiseman, maybe he's more ready than people think?

[The Truth #6]

This is the same Pop that had Tim Duncan and Dave Rob, man. If Wiseman is as talented, he won't be relegated to a Clint type role. He'll only be that if he doesn't have enough talent, and fans will hate it.

Tim and David were MVP candidates when they played their first NBA game. No development needed. Wiseman, on the other hand, will need developing. I’m not saying Pop is unable to develop Wiseman, but there isn’t much evidence of developing bigs. Jackie Butler and Ian Mahinmi were busts in my opinion. Jakob hasn’t improved any that I notice, or at least expanded his game. So I think it’s a legitimate but admittedly unpopular thing to consider. Perhaps David and Tim spoiled Pop. Perhaps there isn’t enough info to make a reasonable opinion yet? Fair enough. I think trading to draft Wiseman has risks, especially including his development. I’m actually warming up to the idea of going all in for Wiseman. But it could be a rough beginning.

[Sugus]

reshirted his age 19 season. And while his offense doesn't look like he lost anything by it, his defense sure looks lost.

Embiid didn't get his injuries until he was already 20. However, there was a recent podcast where I think Ford or Hollinger or Russilo waxed poetic about seeing Embiid during that year improve game to game like and marvel at the improvement over the season, and it was his age 19 season. If he had gotten hurt at the start of the season instead of the end, would the same improvement have occured?

I think there's a clear distinction to be made between your (fair and quite interesting) point on bigs losing a year or more to injury, and this pandemic-related shutdown that kept players from playing organized ball. Technically, both were lost years, but no prospects this year (well, Wiseman specifically, I can't talk for every draftee) were redshirted, sitting out of most workouts and having to go through rehab instead. Wiseman most likely has spent a lot of time on individual workouts, bodybuilding, and generally training ever since he dropped out of college - he was probably one of the most well equipped draftees in terms of home-working once the pandemic hit, since he'd dropped out of college a while ago and was surely already training by himself or with personal trainers. Of course, that guarantees nothing in relation to his future development, and it's certainly not good to miss a year of basketball, but it's not a clear cut indicator that he'll be a bust (whereas I'll be keeping an eye on other bigs who lost development years to injury, sounds like an interesting correlation if true).

[Sugus]

Fair points. Perhaps I should simplify my reasoning: I think Maxey has solid two-way abilities and I’d like to see him on the team somehow.

To answer your last question, there is no way I trade up to 2 and risk drafting Lamelo. I think it has to be Wiseman, but I think his role with the team, at least under Pop, might not ever get beyond a Clint Capela role. I think Deni would have more success under Pop. So that’s a conundrum for me, in general, what to do with #2 if we somehow ended up there (which I don’t think we will).

I'd love for us to get a couple more prospects, I haven't scouted Maxey much but can see the interest. Hope the Spurs can offload Gay/DD/Mills for a late first rounder...

And I think Wiseman's too talented (and the Spurs coaching too smart) to be reduced to a Capela role. Wiseman has a lot more offensive arsenal, isolation, shooting, dribbling which are things Capela could never do at an NBA level, and which kept him relegated to being spoon-fed lobs by Harden. I can't see a scenario where the Spurs go through all the trouble of trading up, then try and reduce the role of their highest draft pick in a decade like that. Having said that, Deni might just be better under Pop, but I don't think it'd be because Pop can't develop bigs. Prospects are unpredictable like that.

[objective]

I think there's a clear distinction to be made between your (fair and quite interesting) point on bigs losing a year or more to injury, and this pandemic-related shutdown that kept players from playing organized ball. Technically, both were lost years, but no prospects this year (well, Wiseman specifically, I can't talk for every draftee) were redshirted, sitting out of most workouts and having to go through rehab instead. Wiseman most likely has spent a lot of time on individual workouts, bodybuilding, and generally training ever since he dropped out of college - he was probably one of the most well equipped draftees in terms of home-working once the pandemic hit, since he'd dropped out of college a while ago and was surely already training by himself or with personal trainers. Of course, that guarantees nothing in relation to his future development, and it's certainly not good to miss a year of basketball, but it's not a clear cut indicator that he'll be a bust (whereas I'll be keeping an eye on other bigs who lost development years to injury, sounds like an interesting correlation if true).

I don't think it's a bust indicator, but more of a ceiling limiter. Robinson, Kanter, Noel, these guys all play minutes, and have started games. It could be a coincidence, so I'm not swearing to bigs missing teenage years as a hard fact, but it's interesting. Off the top of my head it didn't really affect bigs who missed years in their early 20s, like Embiid or David Robinson or Blake Griffin.

Of course the difference between 19 and 20 is just arbitrary, and I think the general point should be about lack of development time in the early years in general.

And while Wiseman has been working out and doing skill work (seemingly largely or solely with 5-9 guys based on his training videos), I don't think it is a substitute for competitive basketball.

But hey, I'm still on board for him.

He may not be David Robinson, but I'll take prime Kevin Willis with some rim protection.

[R. DeMurre]

I don't believe in Toppin as a lotto guy.

He's going to be a journeyman.

I think a lot of people don't realize how old Toppin is. John Collins is only 6 months older than Toppin, and he just finished his 3rd NBA season. Toppin and Jayson Tatum are the same age, and Tatum also just finished his 3rd season. Wiseman is 3 full years younger than Toppin, and Onyeka Okongwu is more than 3 years younger.

[tim_duncan_fan]

I think a lot of people don't realize how old Toppin is. John Collins is only 6 months older than Toppin, and he just finished his 3rd NBA season. Toppin and Jayson Tatum are the same age, and Tatum also just finished his 3rd season. Wiseman is 3 full years younger than Toppin, and Onyeka Okongwu is more than 3 years younger.


Yep. Toppin played against younger competition and doesn't have much upside. Won't be much more than he is now, which is a serviceable NBA guy.

Spend the pick on someone with potential.

[rankingtear]

From ATL insider:


Hawks get #13, #17, and a 2nd (IDK where the 2nd is from yet)Minny gets #5 and #6
NOP gets #1 to draft Melo and takes on some amount of salary. Maybe Culver who MIN is trying to trade, lol.
CLE gets #10, Rubio, and Oubre
PHX gets Jrue and either a combo of Exum/Nance Jr. or Kevin Love
MIN wants two of Deni, Obi, or Haliburton.

I wonder if a Demar/Aldridge for NYK 8 is in play to get Okongwu. Wasserman, ATL insider and another twitter rumor account thinks the deal for GS is dead.

[Dejounte]

Meh. Okongwu isnt worth trading up for

[The Truth #6]

I'd love for us to get a couple more prospects, I haven't scouted Maxey much but can see the interest. Hope the Spurs can offload Gay/DD/Mills for a late first rounder...

And I think Wiseman's too talented (and the Spurs coaching too smart) to be reduced to a Capela role. Wiseman has a lot more offensive arsenal, isolation, shooting, dribbling which are things Capela could never do at an NBA level, and which kept him relegated to being spoon-fed lobs by Harden. I can't see a scenario where the Spurs go through all the trouble of trading up, then try and reduce the role of their highest draft pick in a decade like that. Having said that, Deni might just be better under Pop, but I don't think it'd be because Pop can't develop bigs. Prospects are unpredictable like that.

Also fair points. I’m playing devils advocate in a sense here with Wiseman. I don’t think they would want him to have a reduced role, but it will take work from the team to get him to elite status. I think that should be less controversial of a statement.

[4lifecowboy]

Meh. Okongwu isnt worth trading up for

Disagree. Okongwu will immediately upgrade our defense, and will run with our young guns. Love his footwork and the attitude he plays with. All he need is to work on a outside shot. He is a Kawhi like sculpture to mold.

[Dejounte]

Disagree. Okongwu will immediately upgrade our defense, and will run with our young guns. Love his footwork and the attitude he plays with. All he need is to work on a outside shot. He is a Kawhi like sculpture to mold.

His hometown is LA. Fuck that. He will just want to go to the Lakers after his first or second contract

[Sugus]

His hometown is LA. Fuck that. He will just want to go to the Lakers after his first or second contract

To be fair, saying he isn't worth trading up for, and that he'll leave for LA after his contract is up, are two very different things. I agree with Cowboy, he's definitely someone I'd like the Spurs to get if they whiff out on Wiseman - I'd go as far as saying I wouldn't mind us taking #2 in the event that Minny picks Wiseman first. A bit of a reach maybe, but if the Spurs are high on him, you gotta get your guy. About LA, I don't think there's any reliable way to predict which players will grow up into snaking their original teams, and who won't - and it's not like we're never drafting a player born in LA again just because of Nephew... Right?

[Dejounte]

In my big man statistical analysis thread, OO shot zero threes during college. I just don't see the upside here. Even Kawhi shot a lot of threes during college--you can't use Kawhi as an example for everybody, especially players who don't have that foundation to begin with. OO just gives off Tristan Thompson (first half of career) vibes. Yes, great footwork, but Tristan had that too.

[CGD]

https://twitter.com/MattBabcock11/status/1326616444189077504?s=19

Don't get me hyped up like this...

The more I learn about this draft (hadn’t really done my homework), the less appeal there is to me in moving up. Unless the absolutely LOVE someone (maybe the Israeli kid?), it feels like 11 is a good spot to be in such a lackluster draft.

Now if they are able to acquire another pick without giving up 11 (like by taking back terrible contracts) that’s another story.

[Dejounte]

To be fair, saying he isn't worth trading up for, and that he'll leave for LA after his contract is up, are two very different things. I agree with Cowboy, he's definitely someone I'd like the Spurs to get if they whiff out on Wiseman - I'd go as far as saying I wouldn't mind us taking #2 in the event that Minny picks Wiseman first. A bit of a reach maybe, but if the Spurs are high on him, you gotta get your guy. About LA, I don't think there's any reliable way to predict which players will grow up into snaking their original teams, and who won't - and it's not like we're never drafting a player born in LA again just because of Nephew... Right?

I admit I was acting extreme with the LA stuff. It isn't just Nephew. You have DeMar with stars in his eyes whenever LA is mentioned. Metu, who is from there too, gets all butterflies in his stomach whenever the Lakers are mentioned. I just hate it from the viewpoint of a fan when players are like that.

[playblair]

The more I learn about this draft (hadn’t really done my homework), the less appeal there is to me in moving up. Unless the absolutely LOVE someone (maybe the Israeli kid?), it feels like 11 is a good spot to be in such a lackluster draft.

Now if they are able to acquire another pick without giving up 11 (like by taking back terrible contracts) that’s another story.

2011 was considered lackluster & provided the best player in the nba (nephew) mvp(curry) numerous all stars
this draft class is much better than 2011
passing on toppin/jaden will be a mistake

[RC_Drunkford]

After I've watched Penny Hardaway talk about Wiseman and some other scouting reports, he's worth the gamble. Hard to find an athletic, mobile big man with a good shooting stroke.

[bluebellmaniac]

Two days until the draft. Two incredibly fast moving days that will make your head spin. What are your prognostications for who we draft and if we are involved in a trade to move for our desired pick. Call your shot or forever stfu.

[look_at_g_shred]

I'd be really happy with Nesmith/Bey

[BackHome]

I think Isaac Okoro might fall to us but don’t really want another 6’6 guard who can shot that leaves Bey, Nesmith, Kira, and Vassel, and Smith.

[Atl Spur]

I think Isaac Okoro might fall to us but don’t really want another 6’6 guard who can shot that leaves Bey, Nesmith, Kira, and Vassel, and Smith.

If his worth ethic is great........bring on Okoro for sure! He is a dawg.......

[Russ]

If his worth ethic is great........bring on Okoro for sure! He is a dawg.......

If he works and works and works, he maybe, maybe, maybe is Bruce Bowen. Chip Engelland 24/7 and he maybe becomes Bruce Bowen. That's his ceiling.

[mo7888]

If he works and works and works, he maybe, maybe, maybe is Bruce Bowen. Chip Engelland 24/7 and he maybe becomes Bruce Bowen. That's his ceiling.

I think his ceiling is poor man's kawhi and his floor is poor man's bowen...

Robert Woodard is more of a physically stronger Bruce Bowen projection to me..

All that said, I'm not high on Okoro. I'd take him at 11 but, I wouldn't trade up for him.

[Degoat]

People are sleeping on Okoro, I get he’s not really a need with all the guys we have on the team being similar in size but he’s gonna be pretty good

[Dejounte]

Stewart looks promising.

Might sound crazy, but I wouldn't mind him at #11.https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1328389899700097024?s=19

PhantomDashCam

[Dejounte]

Watch Stewart be the pick and everybody's gonna hate it (not me)

[CGD]

2011 was considered lackluster & provided the best player in the nba (nephew) mvp(curry) numerous all stars
this draft class is much better than 2011
passing on toppin/jaden will be a mistake

That’s kind of my point. keeping 11 wouldn’t be the end of the world. The three best players in that “weak” draft went: Clay Thompson (11), Leonard (15), and Butler (30).

(Curry was the draft before btw)

[rankingtear]

Final Mocks:
Athletic - Jaden McDaniels
Espn - Devin Vassell
Bleacher - Patrick Williams
SI - Isaac Okoro
Ringer - Saddiq Bey

[Atl Spur]

If he works and works and works, he maybe, maybe, maybe is Bruce Bowen. Chip Engelland 24/7 and he maybe becomes Bruce Bowen. That's his ceiling.

You’re joking right? Lol

[Atl Spur]

That’s kind of my point. keeping 11 wouldn’t be the end of the world. The three best players in that “weak” draft went: Clay Thompson (11), Leonard (15), and Butler (30).

(Curry was the draft before btw)


#facts

[The Truth #6]

Final Mocks:
Athletic - Jaden McDaniels
Espn - Devin Vassell
Bleacher - Patrick Williams
SI - Isaac Okoro
Ringer - Saddiq Bey

That is a reasonable list. I think Wiseman and OO are their two preferred targets, but I don’t see them pulling off the trade to make it happen.

I think Deni and Patrick are next but both will be gone. I don’t see them targeting Isaac or Devin due to the positional fit they are looking for.

I do think it will come down to Bey vs McDaniels. Floor vs ceiling.

My best guess: Saddiq Bey is their pick at 11.

(But I would love to see Jaden picked to see this place erupt. They may have some better insight into Jaden through the channels that helped them scout Dejounte.)

[Dejounte]

That is a reasonable list. I think Wiseman and OO are their two preferred targets, but I don’t see them pulling off the trade to make it happen.

I think Deni and Patrick are next but both will be gone. I don’t see them targeting Isaac or Devin due to the positional fit they are looking for.

I do think it will come down to Bey vs McDaniels. Floor vs ceiling.

My best guess: Saddiq Bey is their pick at 11.

God no

[Chinook]

I think my board is:

Wiseman
Toppin
Edwards
Okongwu
Avdija
Nesmith
Smith
Lewis
Williams
Haliburton
Ball

Unless Toppin or Wiseman is available, I'd probably prefer a second mid-first over moving up. I think they could get a second player from that board at around 18-20

[look_at_g_shred]

I think my board is:

Wiseman
Toppin
Edwards
Okongwu
Avdija
Nesmith
Smith
Lewis
Williams
Haliburton
Ball

Unless Toppin or Wiseman is available, I'd probably prefer a second mid-first over moving up. I think they could get a second player from that board at around 18-20
Toppin over Edwards :drunk

[Chinook]

Toppin over Edwards :drunk

Honestly, I have Toppin at the top(pin) of my board, but you can't pass over what Wiseman could mean for the team. I like Edwards too, and after those three, there's a decent gap before the next three and then a smaller gap before the final five.

[RiverwalkParade]

Thinking 11 will be a pick for another team and we trade down for Stewart or Maxey. Many will hate it, but it will turn out to be the “steal of the draft” and we get some other asset in return. Who knows, just don’t have a lot of faith in moving LMA or DDR at this point. Those are big swings that we rarely take.

[Chinook]

Thinking 11 will be a pick for another team and we trade down for Stewart or Maxey. Many will hate it, but it will turn out to be the “steal of the draft” and we get some other asset in return. Who knows, just don’t have a lot of faith in moving LMA or DDR at this point. Those are big swings that we rarely take.

Would you give up 11 and Mills for 25, 28 Oubre and a future first?

[RiverwalkParade]

I would.

[The Truth #6]

God no

It could be your guy Jalen Smith, but I think they are looking for someone with more versatility in the ability to put the ball on the floor. I see even less of a chance for Isiah Stewart—too old school. Picking Jaden is more likely than Isiah in my opinion.

[Dverde]

They are not drafting Saffiq Bey. We all know it’s going to be Patrick Williams unless he goes before their pick.

[Chinook]

I would.

There are some good/intriguing players in that range like Jalen McDaniels, Robert Woodard, Leandro Bolmaro, Paul Reed, Isaiah Stewart and Vernon Carey. That there are so many, actually might drive a guy like Maxey, Smith, Vassell, Pokusevski even Lewis down to 25. Getting Oubre out of the deal would be really nice for any win-now ambitions Pop might have. Whether I'd be okay doing it would depend on which of the future picks OKC has. If they got one of those unprotected MIA/HOU/LAC picks, it could be crazy found money down the line.

[DesignatedT]

Best Case Scenario:

Alrdridge, DeRozan and 11 for Wiggins, 2 and 6. Draft Wiseman 2 and Toppin 6.

[The Truth #6]

They are not drafting Saffiq Bey. We all know it’s going to be Patrick Williams unless he goes before their pick.

Which is exactly what I said. Patrick Williams will likely be gone.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/HawksOnFSSE/status/1328444094016851969?s=19

rankingtear time to stop posting from NBASupes lmfao

[Seventyniner]

rankingtear (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=44897) time to stop posting from NBASupes lmfao

So they probably won't take DeRozan.

But maybe they would want Mills and Forbes for #6!

[rankingtear]

https://twitter.com/HawksOnFSSE/status/1328444094016851969?s=19

rankingtear (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=44897) time to stop posting from NBASupes lmfao

He never said they would trade for Derozan. Other people were reporting that. The 3 teamer trade rumor came from GS local news.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://twitter.com/franfraschilla/status/1328456412075347968?s=20

[Degoat]

Since Phoenix traded for CP3 I doubt they look at drafting a PG, they’ll be targeting wings or bigs like the spurs...