If the Spurs draft 11th

[BackHome]

You could play Precious with Samanic but you could not play him with Poodle.

[mo7888]

You could play Precious with Samanic but you could not play him with Poodle.

You could also move up and play Obi with Poeltl and draft Reed or Perry in the 2nd and play either along side Samanic.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Real talk: When was the last time the Spurs actually drafted someone too small for their position? Maybe DeShaun Thomas in 2013 or Denmon in 2012? Just seems like a weird accusation.

Keldon.

Lol no, you make a great point. But we are still small at everything except point guard.

[pad300]

Real talk: When was the last time the Spurs actually drafted someone too small for their position? Maybe DeShaun Thomas in 2013 or Denmon in 2012? Just seems like a weird accusation.

I think the issue is playing someone too small (Forbes, Mills as SG's and assorted 2's played as 3's and even 4's (eg. Derozan as a 4)), rather than drafting too small.

[Russ]

Of all the players out of the top 7 (the potential impact guys), Precious may be the most interesting.

He's big and strong and seems to have a motor -- pretty unusual.

Not the quickest guy in the world but plays efficiently and smart. Could do a lot worse.

[Sugus]

What? :lol Their star perimeter player is the most averse three point shooter in the league, they can't afford a single more position to don't shoot 3's.

I'm not picking a draft pick that has to accomodate to a player like DeRozan who's at the best, off the team this off-season, and at worst off the team by next off-season. Perhaps i was bad wording on my part, I was thinking more about the young core, players that (whether good or bad) you can build around for the future. Having said that, I don't see what's the bad fit of Precious and our guards, especially since I see him developing an outside shot sometime in the near future. Though obviously Obi Toppin would be the number 1 match for this team...

[BackHome]

You could also move up and play Obi with Poeltl and draft Reed or Perry in the 2nd and play either along side Samanic.

I like the way you think I am really high on Reed.

[KobesAchilles]

Of all the players out of the top 7 (the potential impact guys), Precious may be the most interesting.

He's big and strong and seems to have a motor -- pretty unusual.

Not the quickest guy in the world but plays efficiently and smart. Could do a lot worse.
Never heard of the guy. Might be the one time in my life where I watched zero college basketball. But a quick youtube search and he's exactly what I want. A rim runner and super atheletic. He's my new #1 :lol

[TD 21]

The Spurs aren't going to trade DeRozan to move up four spots. Unless they legit consider Murray negative value, they definitely aren't going to be adding him into the deal. I get that Spurs fans are down on their players, but neither of those guys really has that low of stock around the league.

I said DeRozan or Murray + 11.

Murray moving the Spurs from 11 to 7 would likely be the peak of his stock, created by the perfect storm (supposedly weak draft near the top, a team in need of a "PG" and assets period and an executive from an organization obsessed with athleticism).

DeRozan, again I view it like, if he can be turned into a young, potentially core piece, good luck doing better.

[Chinook]

Teams are going to move down four spots for a protected first. That's not the peak of Murray's value at all.

[TD 21]

Teams are going to move down four spots for a protected first. That's not the peak of Murray's value at all.

Murray's contract is a killer. He could make it palatable if he commits to being a 3 and D type, but you and I both know that's not happening, at least not here/now.

With a protected 1st, it's like a combination of a car before it's driven off the lot (yet to depreciate in value) and a lottery ticket.

[Dejounte]

Finally got around to watching more of Saddiq Bey... And it's still a no for me, dawg. He absolutely cannot dribble in traffic. When he gets passed the ball, he takes two dribbles towards the basket, sees someone in his way, and passes it to the next guy. I get that he's a decent shooter, but guys like this are a dime a dozen. I tried to see if his defense would redeem him, but it wasnt anything special.

I watched more of Isaiah too and unfortunately spotted some flaws... He ball watches like crazy on defense and just stands there in the paint unaware of where his man is. Not good. Still, him being double teamed on offense is no joke. Just disappointed at his defense.

[rankingtear]

Saddiq Bey is this subs wet dream since kawhi left, 6-8 216 pounds 7ft wingspan, can shoot dribble and defend on perimeter.

[Dejounte]

Saddiq Bey is this subs wet dream since kawhi left, 6-8 216 pounds 7ft wingspan, can shoot dribble and defend on perimeter.

He can't dribble.

[TD 21]

A guy who thinks Achiuwa is or can be a combo forward would think a 6'7 216 6'11'' wingspan guy, with plus spot up 3-point shooting and decent defense, is dime a dozen.

That said, his lack of athleticism and strength probably means he'll be no better an option to defend overpowering big wings than Johnson or possibly even White.

That's why I'm leaning Nesmith now because of the dynamic shooting and the ancillary play making it unlocks.

[Dejounte]

A guy who thinks Achiuwa is or can be a combo forward would think a 6'7 216 6'11'' wingspan guy, with plus spot up 3-point shooting and decent defense, is dime a dozen.

That said, his lack of athleticism and strength probably means he'll be no better an option to defend overpowering big wings than Johnson or possibly even White.

That's why I'm leaning Nesmith now because of the dynamic shooting and the ancillary play making it unlocks.

My belief that Achiuwa can be a combo forward is wishful thinking and I've said that in a previous post. If there's a 5% chance he can be, given his athletic ability and attacking in transition, it's a worthy gamble.

I've been watching Nesmith too, and was about to post in the Nesmith thread. If there had to be a choice between the two 6'6" players: Vassell or Nesmith. Nesmith is the easy choice. Nesmith is a taller Lonnie Walker without the verticality. He may not be as fundamentally sound on defense as Vassell, but I'm more confident that with his build and frame, he can be a more versatile defender than Vassell.

If you had to choose between Bey and Nesmith. You choose Nesmith 10 out of 10. Bey 's dribbling ability is piss poor

[TD 21]

My belief that Achiuwa can be a combo forward is wishful thinking and I've said that in a previous post. If there's a 5% chance he can be, given his athletic ability and attacking in transition, it's a worthy gamble.

I've been watching Nesmith too, and was about to post in the Nesmith thread. If there had to be a choice between the two 6'6" players: Vassell or Nesmith. Nesmith is the easy choice. Nesmith is a taller Lonnie Walker without the verticality. He may not be as fundamentally sound on defense as Vassell, but I'm more confident that with his build and frame, he can be a more versatile defender than Vassell.

If you had to choose between Bey and Nesmith. You choose Nesmith 10 out of 10. Bey 's dribbling ability is piss poor

Maybe he can defend some of the overpowering big wings, but he's still a four's body with a five's game, so he either plays next to a floor spacing rim protector (as Chinook said) or as the lone big.

I'm not down on Vassell or Bey and I'd be fine with them, but I'd prefer someone more dynamic than the former. A Green type is perfect when you have an abundance of play making, like the "beautiful game". On the other hand, Vassell could be Murray insurance if he can credibly defend PG's.

For Bey's role, handle isn't that important. Sure, it needs to improve some, but if Murray can supposedly play "PG" and receive $64 million with his sorry excuse for a handle 3 years after being drafted, then it shouldn't be an impediment for a 3 and D wing.

[Dejounte]

Maybe he can defend some of the overpowering big wings, but he's still a four's body with a five's game, so he either plays next to a floor spacing rim protector (as Chinook said) or as the lone big.

I'm not down on Vassell or Bey and I'd be fine with them, but I'd prefer someone more dynamic than the former. A Green type is perfect when you have an abundance of play making, like the "beautiful game". On the other hand, Vassell could be Murray insurance if he can credibly defend PG's.

For Bey's role, handle isn't that important. Sure, it needs to improve some, but if Murray can supposedly play "PG" and receive $64 million with his sorry excuse for a handle 3 years after being drafted, then it shouldn't be an impediment for a 3 and D wing.

Yes, I agreed with Chinook on that too, saying that someone with Samanic's realized potential would do great with Precious. I just disagree with the whole "Precious has a center's game" thing, when I've mentioned over and over how he attacks the basket... There's a perception that he's DeAndre Jordan on that end which is simply untrue... Hes at the very least a 4. Saying he's a 3 on offense is a reach, which I've said.

Regarding handle and 3 and D... See, this is where I stand apart from you and a few others... I expect a lot more than a 3 and D type from an 11th pick and I hope the Spurs are too. I get that people just want to go for a sure thing, but the Spurs need to aim higher. This is my draft philosophy, and as you read in my posts, its all about hoping a player like Precious with his physical attributes can be a unicorn, its all about hoping a player like Patrick can have a trajectory like Kawhi, its all about hoping a player like Isaiah Stewart can be a beast on offense like he was in college. I'm trying to aim big, and any sliver of evidence these prospects can show that they can be a star, I say go for it...

[Dejounte]

objective

I'm watching a full game of Okoro now, and I dont think he looks 6'4". His wingspan looks incredibly short, and I just confirmed this and wow. Dude has no length at all. I won't let this turn me away from him yet, there can be some short dudes like Chuck Hayes who can be beasts on defense...

The dude is obviously not a shooter, though he can slash to the basket with nice dribbling skills...

Not that impressed yet.

[exstatic]

He can't dribble.

Neither could Kawhi when he got here. That’s what player development is for.

There are zero finished players in this draft.

[TD 21]

Yes, I agreed with Chinook on that too, saying that someone with Samanic's realized potential would do great with Precious. I just disagree with the whole "Precious has a center's game" thing, when I've mentioned over and over how he attacks the basket... There's a perception that he's DeAndre Jordan on that end which is simply untrue... Hes at the very least a 4. Saying he's a 3 on offense is a reach, which I've said.

Regarding handle and 3 and D... See, this is where I stand apart from you and a few others... I expect a lot more than a 3 and D type from an 11th pick and I hope the Spurs are too. I get that people just want to go for a sure thing, but the Spurs need to aim higher. This is my draft philosophy, and as you read in my posts, its all about hoping a player like Precious with his physical attributes can be a unicorn, its all about hoping a player like Patrick can have a trajectory like Kawhi, its all about hoping a player like Isaiah Stewart can be a beast on offense like he was in college. I'm trying to aim big, and any sliver of evidence these prospects can show that they can be a star, I say go for it...

Role playing center doesn't automatically mean a player can't dribble, it just his archetype can't play next to a strict rim runner. Look no further than Adebayo, who was starting up front next to a floor spacing center, in Leonard and is now playing as the lone big next to Crowder.

Ideally, sure you'd like to do better at 11, but it's not always available and it's still a nice piece. You either draft your own 3 and D wings or you end up overpaying for middling ones. I generally agree with swinging for the fences and relative to their spot they've mostly done that recently, but you can't force it either.

[Dejounte]

Alright,

I'm falling in love with the idea of drafting Okoro.

Unlike Vassell, it was not hard to find footage of Okoro guarding taller players.


https://youtu.be/-vAt01vVexc

See 52:09

Okoro doesn't have length, but he has strength and great positioning. The way he defends is similar to Derrick White. Meanwhile I liken Vassell's defense to DJ (where theyre constantly trying to get steals from passing lanes)

This is an example of a guy you were describing when length is not a major factor, Chinook. I agree with you now and I'm reshaping my idea that length is super critical. It isn't when you're a defender like White. It does matter if your style of defense is to get steals. I have always preferred the former.

I would be comfortable with drafting Okoro if he drops.

[Dejounte]

Neither could Kawhi when he got here. That’s what player development is for.

There are zero finished players in this draft.

This isnt true. Watch Kawhi's college tape. He was doing way more with the ball than Bey does.

[Dejounte]

Updated tier list:

Tier 1
Deni Avdija
Obi Toppin
Isaac Okoro

Tier 2
Patrick Williams
Precious Achiuwa
Aaron Nesmith

Tier 3
Isaiah Stewart
Jalen Smith
Tyler Bey
Robert Woodard II
Zeke Nnaji
Daniel Oturu
Xavier Tillman
Reggie Perry
Paul Reed

[Thomas82]

Spurs need an impact player, like, yesterday. Impact players aren't usually found at 11. Spurs need to make a deal somehow.

Cosign!!

[tim_duncan_fan]

I don't think Okoro is a good idea. Another short guy. But this one can't shoot.

We already have perimeter D at the 2-guard spot.

[Dejounte]

I don't think Okoro is a good idea. Another short guy. But this one can't shoot.

We already have perimeter D.

I thought the same thing too and I avoided him like the plague because he was short. But I put the time in and I'm glad I did. Okoro's short, but he's chunky and strong. He's not a great shooter, but he's like Keldon on the drive. Fearless. We need more ballers like that.

He defends taller players the same way PJ Tucker/ Derrick White does.

[tim_duncan_fan]

objective

I'm watching a full game of Okoro now, and I dont think he looks 6'4". His wingspan looks incredibly short, and I just confirmed this and wow. Dude has no length at all. I won't let this turn me away from him yet, there can be some short dudes like Chuck Hayes who can be beasts on defense...

The dude is obviously not a shooter, though he can slash to the basket with nice dribbling skills...

Not that impressed yet.


I thought the same thing too and I avoided him like the plague because he was short. But I put the time in and I'm glad I did. Okoro's short, but he's chunky and strong. He's not a great shooter, but he's like Keldon on the drive. Fearless. We need more ballers like that.

He defends taller players the same way PJ Tucker/ Derrick White does.

It sounds like we would be doubling up on Keldon when we really need a legit long and agile forward. We definitely need tough-minded ballers, but with varying skillsets. A 6'5 - 6'6 guy is just more glut at the 1 and 2 spots, which are already pretty much covered.

I guess I'd take him given the impression that he was far and away better than guys at other positions who are available, but I really hope that's not who we come away with.

[Dejounte]

It sounds like we would be doubling up on Keldon when we really need a legit long and agile forward. We definitely need tough-minded ballers, but with varying skillsets. A 6'5 - 6'6 guy is just more glut at the 1 and 2 spots, which are already pretty much covered.

I guess I'd take him given the impression that he was far and away better than guys at other positions who are available, but I really hope that's not who we come away with.

Trust me, there's nothing I want more than a long and agile forward...

I just would understand why Okoro would be drafted by the Spurs if it happened. And I hope Spur fans don't immediately dismiss it, because I agree that on the surface it looks like he will be unable to guard taller players, but the tape says otherwise...

[rankingtear]

Jalen Smith anyone? Modern big man , can shoot , block shot and run in transition , 6'10 225 7'2 wingspan, can supercharge our offense. late lottery riser.

[Dejounte]

Jalen Smith anyone? Modern big man , can shoot , block shot and run in transition , 6'10 225 7'2 wingspan, can supercharge our offense. late lottery riser.

From what I've seen, very Serge Ibaka like. He's alright, I dont see a high upside but probably would be serviceable role player.

[rankingtear]

From what I've seen, very Serge Ibaka like. He's alright, I dont see a high upside but probably would be serviceable role player.

Scouts thinks he's underitilized in Maryland thats why he's rising draft boards. Maybe a kuzma/mitchell like situation. Some think he can shoot of movement and screens like Bertans. If he can be a movement shooter at C with rim protection he's your unicorn.

[mo7888]

Updated tier list:

Tier 1
Deni Avdija
Obi Toppin
Isaac Okoro

Tier 2
Patrick Williams
Precious Achiuwa
Aaron Nesmith

Tier 3
Isaiah Stewart
Jalen Smith
Tyler Bey
Robert Woodard II
Zeke Nnaji
Daniel Oturu
Xavier Tillman
Reggie Perry
Paul Reed

I'd have Wiseman in tier 1 as well but that's a good list

[duncan2150]

I don't think Okoro is a good idea. Another short guy. But this one can't shoot.

We already have perimeter D at the 2-guard spot.

I really think Okoro is the best defender of this draft, he can look short and as a 3 not what the spurs need ( more a 3/4 or 4/5) but he is athletic and the 3 pt can improve with the time.

Not a bad choice imo

[FireMicoHalili]

I really think Okoro is the best defender of this draft, he can look short and as a 3 not what the spurs need ( more a 3/4 or 4/5) but he is athletic and the 3 pt can improve with the time.

Not a bad choice imo
people are fixated on getting a big because there's a logjam at the guard/forward spots. BPA still the best strategy here and to use any of the young guys as trade chips for positions in which talent is lacking.

[spurspl]

trade down with celtics and draft isaiah stewart and vernon

[Seventyniner]

With a pick as high as #11 we should be hoping for a player that the rest of the team can complement in 2-3 years, rather than a player who best complements the existing team imo.

[Twisted_Dawg]

Updated tier list:

Tier 1
Deni Avdija
Obi Toppin
Isaac Okoro

Tier 2
Patrick Williams
Precious Achiuwa
Aaron Nesmith

Tier 3
Isaiah Stewart
Jalen Smith
Tyler Bey
Robert Woodard II
Zeke Nnaji
Daniel Oturu
Xavier Tillman
Reggie Perry
Paul Reed

Is your tier list for players that could quite possibly be available at #11?

[BackHome]

No first tier are player we should target in a trade and second tier are players who should be available to us at 11th pick. I am guessing...

[Degoat]

Imo at the 11th pick if this makes any sense lol we get the last possible pick of the 1st tier guys or the first pick at the 2nd tier guys, It’s honestly not a bad spot to be in

[Dejounte]

Is your tier list for players that could quite possibly be available at #11?

These are just my personal preferred targets

For example,

If at the 11th pick, any of the 1st tier guys are available, I would hope the Spurs pick them before any of the 2nd or 3rd tier guys.

My list is constantly being updated as I watch more and more footage. Honestly torn if I would take Okoro over Pat still...

[Seventyniner]

These are just my personal preferred targets

For example,

If at the 11th pick, any of the 1st tier guys are available, I would hope the Spurs pick them before any of the 2nd or 3rd tier guys.

My list is constantly being updated as I watch more and more footage. Honestly torn if I would take Okoro over Pat still...

Are you not bothering to include guys like Wiseman who are 99.999% likely to be gone by #11?

[Dejounte]

Are you not bothering to include guys like Wiseman who are 99.999% likely to be gone by #11?

No, my list has nothing to do with players likey or not likely to be there at 11. It's just people I've spent some time watching. Wiseman might be one of those consensus top 5 guys, but I'm not going to go by anyone's word on that until I've done my homework (watching footage with my own eyes)

Actually players I've spent watching arent on there either like Saddiq Bey and Vassell... I dont want either of those guys.

[Kurik]

Updated tier list:

Tier 1 I
Deni Avdija
Obi Toppin
Isaac Okoro

Tier 2
Patrick Williams
Precious Achiuwa
Aaron Nesmith

Tier 3
Isaiah Stewart
Jalen Smith
Tyler Bey
Robert Woodard II
Zeke Nnaji
Daniel Oturu
Xavier Tillman
Reggie Perry
Paul Reed

Nice list, big fan of Reggie Perry for the 2nd round pick. In terms of skill I saw some Diaw on offense during some of his highlights.

[Dejounte]

Nice list, big fan of Reggie Perry for the 2nd round pick. In terms of skill I saw some Diaw on offense during some of his highlights.

I was big on Reggie Perry too... And then I followed him on social media and he just seemed immature and gave me Dejounte flashbacks... Then I started to notice the on court antics (showboating). The dude's personality would be a perfect Laker / Warrior. But maybe I'm looking too much into it.

[Kurik]

I was big on Reggie Perry too... And then I followed him on social media and he just seemed immature and gave me Dejounte flashbacks... Then I started to notice the on court antics (showboating). The dude's personality would be a perfect Laker / Warrior. But maybe I'm looking too much into it.

Gotcha, just looked over his twitter and I see what you’re talking about. At the very least I see he likes a lot of the same country things like Keldon does they may mesh well personality wise.

[Seventyniner]

No, my list has nothing to do with players likey or not likely to be there at 11. It's just people I've spent some time watching. Wiseman might be one of those consensus top 5 guys, but I'm not going to go by anyone's word on that until I've done my homework (watching footage with my own eyes)

Actually players I've spent watching arent on there either like Saddiq Bey and Vassell... I dont want either of those guys.

Got it. I appreciate the effort, thanks for posting your conclusions and thoughts. :bobo

[objective]

objective

I'm watching a full game of Okoro now, and I dont think he looks 6'4". His wingspan looks incredibly short, and I just confirmed this and wow. Dude has no length at all. I won't let this turn me away from him yet, there can be some short dudes like Chuck Hayes who can be beasts on defense...

The dude is obviously not a shooter, though he can slash to the basket with nice dribbling skills...

Not that impressed yet.

Yeah, since then I've watched Auburn vs Kentucky and Georgia, and at most he's 6-5 in shoes. He frequently guards point guards, and does a good job, but is also guarded by them. Against Kentucky he didn't look much bigger than Maxey the other guard and both are listed at 6-3.

Anthony Edwards looked maybe the same height, if anything Okoro was a slightly smaller.

But he is like Keldon, can attack the rim. Moves his feet really well, plays hard.

[R. DeMurre]

people are fixated on getting a big because there's a logjam at the guard/forward spots. BPA still the best strategy here and to use any of the young guys as trade chips for positions in which talent is lacking.

I agree.. the Spurs aren't contending for a title next season, so the only important thing is development and amassing assets. And along those same lines, I'd say the best can be the guy who's best in two years as opposed to next season.

[Brazil]

I have so much going on in irl that I'm totally blind on this draft... using dat thread keeping in touch so thanks to everybody feeding us with the info :tu

On a side note also thanks for this weird feud between DAF and Dejounte.. entertaining shit reaching the fuck you level :lol

[ZeusWillJudge]

Updated tier list:

Tier 1
Deni Avdija
Obi Toppin
Isaac Okoro

Tier 2
Patrick Williams
Precious Achiuwa
Aaron Nesmith

Tier 3
Isaiah Stewart
Jalen Smith
Tyler Bey
Robert Woodard II
Zeke Nnaji
Daniel Oturu
Xavier Tillman
Reggie Perry
Paul Reed


You included Tyler Bey and left Saddiq Bey off completely? (He led all 6'8"+ players in 3P%) Saddiq has to be considered a strong Tier 2, with the possibility of making a lot of FO's kick themselves once he hits the floor.

You didn't consider Tyrese Halliburton worthy of any spot on the list? (Word is his rehab is going well. He's a damn good 3P shooter and defender, on top of everything else.)

[exstatic]

You included Tyler Bey and left Saddiq Bey off completely? (He led all 6'8"+ players in 3P%) Saddiq has to be considered a strong Tier 2, with the possibility of making a lot of FO's kick themselves once he hits the floor.

You didn't consider Tyrese Halliburton worthy of any spot on the list? (Word is his rehab is going well. He's a damn good 3P shooter and defender, on top of everything else.)

I think his tiers are players he thinks may drop to 11. Notice also no Wiseman, Ball, etc. it’s not an approach I’d take, trying to spitball what might be available in a spot.

I’ll probably do a first round board, or maybe at least a lottery one. It won’t be a mock, though, because it will disregard team needs. It will be a big board of the players ranked by my estimation of best available in order. Way too soon for that, now, though.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Has anyone heard if the NBA is really going to host a combine-light in Orlando? I would love to see some honest measurements and maybe agility drills and verts.

[exstatic]

Has anyone heard if the NBA is really going to host a combine-light in Orlando? I would love to see some honest measurements and maybe agility drills and verts.

The only thing I’ve heard is that they’re likely to do something on a regional basis.

[Dejounte]

You included Tyler Bey and left Saddiq Bey off completely? (He led all 6'8"+ players in 3P%) Saddiq has to be considered a strong Tier 2, with the possibility of making a lot of FO's kick themselves once he hits the floor.

You didn't consider Tyrese Halliburton worthy of any spot on the list? (Word is his rehab is going well. He's a damn good 3P shooter and defender, on top of everything else.)

Tyler won DPOY and his defense has impressed me more from what I've seen between the two players.

As far as Tyrese... I currently dont think he's a tier 1 point guard (i dont look at it as just from this draft, but i consider if he would be a tier 1 point guard in other years) and i wouldnt draft a tier 2 point guard over a tier 2 forward. This could change as I watch more of Tyrese...

[Dejounte]

I think his tiers are players he thinks may drop to 11. Notice also no Wiseman, Ball, etc. it’s not an approach I’d take, trying to spitball what might be available in a spot.

I’ll probably do a first round board, or maybe at least a lottery one. It won’t be a mock, though, because it will disregard team needs. It will be a big board of the players ranked by my estimation of best available in order. Way too soon for that, now, though.

Nah, these are players I've spent a lot of time watching

I dont have Ball or Wiseman on there because I havent watched enough of either (i dont include prospects who are the "consensus" without having watched them)

There are others Ive purposely left off that I *have* watched like: Saddiq, Vassell, maybe some others I dont remember. I just dont like them as prospects.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Tyler won DPOY and his defense has impressed me more from what I've seen between the two players.

As far as Tyrese... I currently dont think he's a tier 1 point guard (i dont look at it as just from this draft, but i consider if he would be a tier 1 point guard in other years) and i wouldnt draft a tier 2 point guard over a tier 2 forward. This could change as I watch more of Tyrese...


Meh. That's reasonable. A lot of FO's are going to see it differently, but I understand what you're doing with your own list now.

[Dejounte]

Sugus objective


https://youtu.be/-7xAq0K1Mo0

Look at the defensive play at 4:48

This is what makes Precious REALLY appealing to me at #11. He is extremely mobile and everywhere on the court and for a player his size that's extremely impressive. I'm waiting on timvp for a thread on Precious...

[Dejounte]

Sugus objective


https://youtu.be/-7xAq0K1Mo0

Look at the defensive play at 4:48

This is what makes Precious REALLY appealing to me at #11. He is extremely mobile and everywhere on the court and for a player his size that's extremely impressive. I'm waiting on timvp for a thread on Precious...

Also, show me a player who can do what he did at 5:51 to 6:02. This guy is rising my ranks again.
Sugus objective look_at_g_shred timvp

[Dejounte]

Sugus objective


https://youtu.be/-7xAq0K1Mo0

Look at the defensive play at 4:48

This is what makes Precious REALLY appealing to me at #11. He is extremely mobile and everywhere on the court and for a player his size that's extremely impressive. I'm waiting on timvp for a thread on Precious...

Coast to coast at 26:50.

I dont care if people call him a center. These types of plays are game changing. Dude is a gamer.

Check out the crossover at 32:25. He's a "center"

[Dingle Barry]

I haven't watched anyone yet, but it would be great to have a badass named Precious. That is all.

[Dingle Barry]

Also, show me a player who can do what he did at 5:51 to 6:02. This guy is rising my ranks again.
Sugus objective look_at_g_shred timvp

Pick up a loose ball and shakily dribble to opposite arc? Maybe I'm not seeing what you are in that sequence.

[Dejounte]

Pick up a loose ball and shakily dribble to opposite arc? Maybe I'm not seeing what you are in that sequence.

And hit the 3. (okay the play was pretty much over, but people say he cant shoot. I see potential there)

No other prospect right now that is his size can do that. (actually, maybe Reggie Perry)

It looks like nothing special, but when you watch a ton of these guys, it's rare to see something like that from a guy like him.

[Dejounte]

Pick up a loose ball and shakily dribble to opposite arc? Maybe I'm not seeing what you are in that sequence.

Clutch bucket at 1:22:46
Sugus objective

Can guard small guards at 1:23:10

Lateral quickness at 1:24:00 and 1:31:50

[Sugus]

Clutch bucket at 1:22:46
Sugus objective

Can guard small guards at 1:23:10

Lateral quickness at 1:24:00 and 1:31:50

Hell yeah, Precious. I've been aboard the bandwagon for months, I think I've talked about him in this very thread. He was the first prospect for this season's draft that I fell in love with, and you make some great points. His mobility is really intriguing, he can perfectly add vertical threats and finishes to the team, and he looks like he has a solid handle (and even though he doesn't shoot the 3 much, he doesn't look like he has bad mechanics; that play at 6m was a really good display of it. Gets the hustle ball save, takes it all the way up the court, is fouled and still makes a clean 3pt shot that didn't count due to previous foul).

I especially like his screen-setting; you can see at 14:10 the way that he sets up screens for his teammates, where he doesn't go for the hard screen but rather positions himself well enough to hinder the defender's path, but not try to make actual contact, which allows him to recover extremely fast while rolling to the rim for a finish or follow-up. I saw a video not long ago on another young big man who did this (I thiiink it was Jarret Allen but I'm not 100% on that, maybe I'll look for it later) and how effective it was. Achiuwa certainly looks like a really modern player and prospect, I'd love to have him at #11 even though I've already seen some draft mocks placing him in the top 10.

E: oh, you talked about the non-counting 3pt play earlier, I missed that. Yeah, I'd really like Precious, I think he and Luka could make an excellent duo if Luka pans out.

[Dejounte]

Hell yeah, Precious. I've been aboard the bandwagon for months, I think I've talked about him in this very thread. He was the first prospect for this season's draft that I fell in love with, and you make some great points. His mobility is really intriguing, he can perfectly add vertical threats and finishes to the team, and he looks like he has a solid handle (and even though he doesn't shoot the 3 much, he doesn't look like he has bad mechanics; that play at 6m was a really good display of it. Gets the hustle ball save, takes it all the way up the court, is fouled and still makes a clean 3pt shot that didn't count due to previous foul).

I especially like his screen-setting; you can see at 14:10 the way that he sets up screens for his teammates, where he doesn't go for the hard screen but rather positions himself well enough to hinder the defender's path, but not try to make actual contact, which allows him to recover extremely fast while rolling to the rim for a finish or follow-up. I saw a video not long ago on another young big man who did this (I thiiink it was Jarret Allen but I'm not 100% on that, maybe I'll look for it later) and how effective it was. Achiuwa certainly looks like a really modern player and prospect, I'd love to have him at #11 even though I've already seen some draft mocks placing him in the top 10.

E: oh, you talked about the non-counting 3pt play earlier, I missed that. Yeah, I'd really like Precious, I think he and Luka could make an excellent duo if Luka pans out.

He brings a certain toughness and "nasty" that you said Pat appeared like he lacks. He would compound the physicality Keldon already possesses. I'm at a point where I would be really disappointed if someone nabbed him in the top 10 and we learn that the Spurs had him as a top target. Hopefully he doesn't rise like Sekou Doumbouya, whom I really believe the Spurs targeted before he rose in last year's draft (based on the reported last minute workouts).

[Sugus]

He brings a certain toughness and "nasty" that you said Pat appeared like he lacks. He would compound the physicality Keldon already possesses. I'm at a point where I would be really disappointed if someone nabbed him in the top 10 and we learn that the Spurs had him as a top target. Hopefully he doesn't rise like Sekou Doumbouya, whom I really believe the Spurs targeted before he rose in last year's draft (based on the reported last minute workouts).

For sure, the motor/physicality thing I talked about on PatWill is exactly what I meant, in regards to "you either have it or you don't" kind of energy. Precious is an aware defender, his deceptive quickness allows him to recover really well, I can see him doing a solid job of defending the perimeter and switching out which is a must for modern 4/5 players. With Keldon continuing to improve his handles and ball-handling in general, they could be a deadly duo and possible P&R partners, or with White even; Achiuwa's jumping and strong finishing are exactly what Poeltl lacks to be a true threat there. In fact, I see a "death lineup" with Achiuwa as a fast C with four of our guards besides him wreaking havoc; imagine a lineup of White-Lonnie-Keldon-Demar?/Luka when he develops-Achiuwa. Length and shooting at every position, solid D from everyone but DD/Luka maybe, ability to play hard in transition and pick up the pace, plenty of ball-handlers and playmaking. I think that's a really good foundation right there; then next year you tank a little for the supposedly loaded '21 draft, and get your star.

I've been really flopping around in terms of prospects the last few days/weeks lol, there's so many guys that seem equally likely to succeed for different reasons and I could see the Spurs taking any one of them. Hopefully the FO manages to get something out of one of the vets that played well during the bubble; I think Rudy Gay and another filler could be the center of a small deal that might get us a late first-rounder. With the Spurs' track record and uncertainty of this year's draft, I'd be ecstatic, tbh.

[Sugus]

Coast to coast at 26:50.

I dont care if people call him a center. These types of plays are game changing. Dude is a gamer.

Check out the crossover at 32:25. He's a "center"

By the way, these two plays are insane. Especially the second one. Achiuwa absolutely crosses his defender, leaves him in the dust; he was a strong jump in the paint away from a poster dunk there but couldn't finish. That's really something you don't see in a player his size, and exactly the kind of moves/abilities that make players succeed in the NBA. That combination of strength, lenth, height and skill is nothing to sneeze at. The more I watch his games, the more convinced I am that he's my guy, which is something that neither Vassell nor PatWill really made me feel, even though I like their games enough. If he works on his shot he has the opportunity to be a nightmare and shoot over everyone, at 6'9'' you absolutely take a flyer on him. I'm scared that some other team in the top 10 falls in love with him, and snatches him away before we pick; I don't think it's a ridiculous idea to consider trading up for him, if rumours are strong enough that other teams might take him before the Spurs. I trust the FO to make the right move...

[MR-Clutch]

Probably an unpopular opinion given our guard problem but I would love to get a second first round pick and try to grab tyrell terry or Kira Lewis. I think we may look back at these two point guards as top ten players in this draft.

[look_at_g_shred]

Also, show me a player who can do what he did at 5:51 to 6:02. This guy is rising my ranks again.
Sugus (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=54941) objective (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=4663) look_at_g_shred (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=42813) timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8)
I’ve always been a fan

[DAF86]

HX0HdPZkLpk

Achiuwa is just too flawed in too many key elements of the game for him to be seriously considered by me, tbh. A lot of things would need to go right with his development for him to become an efficient piece in today's NBA. With his current skillset he projects to be a Keneth Faried type player at best, and, sorry, but that won't cut it in today's NBA. I don't know who said above that he displays better playmaking skills than Patrick Williams but that's simply not true. Williams already has an advanced midrange pull up game that Achiuwa doesn't have. Also shows better visions and passing.

Like I said in the Edwards thread, you can teach a young player techincal and tactical aspects, but you can't teach him smarts and feel for the game. Achiuwa just looks like a kid that got by in college by being more athletically and physically gifted than 99% of the other guys but doesn't display a single trait of sophistication on his game.

[objective]

Clutch bucket at 1:22:46
Sugus objective

Can guard small guards at 1:23:10

Lateral quickness at 1:24:00 and 1:31:50

He's a credible player in their range. He didn't play against great competition, but he couldn't help that. He is quick and active and ambitious. Can he improve enough to be a starter?

I don't doubt that he's already better than Samanic.

If Samanic played as hard as Precious maybe he'd be farther along.

[Kurgan]

He's a credible player in their range. He didn't play against great competition, but he couldn't help that. He is quick and active and ambitious. Can he improve enough to be a starter?

I don't doubt that he's already better than Samanic.

If Samanic played as hard as Precious maybe he'd be farther along.

The Luka pick was weird because the Spurs organization always goes on and on about drafting hard working players but Samanic seems like a slacker with no motor. Buford might have had blinders on and overlooked these flaws because of his skills(which still haven't translated to the G-League)

[exstatic]

The Luka pick was weird because the Spurs organization always goes on and on about drafting hard working players but Samanic seems like a slacker with no motor. Buford might have had blinders on and overlooked these flaws because of his skills(which still haven't translated to the G-League)

He’s doing just fine in the gleague. 15.2/7.8 in 28 minutes ain’t bad. His motor may be a concern, or he may just be immature, you know, 20. Not everyone is a high motor guy like Keldon. If they were, the classification of “motor” wouldn’t exist. If he’s at least an average motor guy, he’ll play for 10 plus years in the NBA, as currently constituted. The rebounding numbers give me hope. Rebounding is about desire, and he’s pretty good at it.

[Dex]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1298342392563736576

Yay more waiting.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1298342392563736576

Yay more waiting.

Fuck. That's bull shit. How does the draft affect anything? Players are just being selected.

[exstatic]

Fuck. That's bull shit. How does the draft affect anything? Players are just being selected.

The blow up date for the CBA is the 15th. If the worst happens, there won’t be a CBA to conduct the draft with. I’m sure if the NBA and the NBAPA reach an agreement, and it looks like they will, it will go on as scheduled.

[Chinook]

This is from the article linked a couple of posts back:


The NBA and NBPA can now negotiate the resetting of the 2020-21 salary-cap and luxury-tax numbers based upon audits of this season and projections of the next year, allowing for teams, agents and players to have the proper time to prepare for the financial realities of the pandemic's impact on the league.

The league's and union's biggest motivating force to delay the start of next season comes with the hopes that teams can eventually find ways to bring fans safely back into arenas for games, an integral part of the league's revenue stream. Commissioner Adam Silver says game-night receipts account for approximately 40% of the league's revenues.


Despite current and projected revenue losses affecting the union's 51-49 revenue split with the league, there's optimism that the sides can reach agreements on temporary changes to the CBA -- including the salary-cap and luxury-tax thresholds -- that would preclude the need to enact the nuclear option of terminating the CBA.

So basically, without agreeing to at least some new provisions, the cap will probably crash, and the two sides need to explicitly agree to change that. Either side might be willing to break the CBA in order to prevent the crash. The owners will probably want to avoid the tax lines, and the players want to avoid the lack of funds for free agents.

I think we'll see a stagnant cap but a looser tax line for next year. It'll be really hard for some teams to get under the tax, and my guess is that pushing the draft back will help teams organize their salaries rather than having to panic and use their picks to dump their bad money. Ordinarily, the Spurs, who should be able to avoid the tax even if it's stagnant, would be in a position of power with all their expirings. But because they're not uber far from the tax themselves and can't offer any immediate relief without risking the tax, I think they'll likely be quiet. They could get some real value trading LMA for Horford or DMDR for Harris, but they can't afford to hold onto that deal if the cap doesn't keep rising any more than Philly can.

[Dejounte]

For Precious fans:

CDe8P9aDtQ-

CC7MRlKhXyc

[rankingtear]

Weird even spurs reddit likes precious , probably still trying to find the next kawhi.

[Sugus]

For Precious fans:

CDe8P9aDtQ-

CC7MRlKhXyc

Achiuwa train going strong, baby. I really think the Spurs could develop him into a solid player for years to come, if not more. I'm torn between him and PatWill if the Spurs remain at 11, either one would be solid though they're different types of players.

[Atl Spur]

Precious has that motor/heart.... skill can be honed.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Precious will be gone before 11, tbh.

[rankingtear]

One knock on precious is he doesn't seem to enjoy playing his position, he still see's himself as a SF but his skill set are that of a rim rolling big. Basing it on athletic article and espn interview. Espn mock has him going 9th to washington , athletic isn't as high 16th to portland.

[Dejounte]

One knock on precious is he doesn't seem to enjoy playing his position, he still see's himself as a SF but his skill set are that of a rim rolling big. Basing it on athletic article and espn interview. Espn mock has him going 9th to washington , athletic isn't as high 16th to portland.

Is it a knock? It's not like Poetl trying to play the wing. If we expect other players to improve ball handling and shooting (two skills Precious isn't bad at) from other players, why can't we expect it the same from Precious?

[rankingtear]

Is it a knock? It's not like Poetl trying to play the wing. If we expect other players to improve ball handling and shooting (two skills Precious isn't bad at) from other players, why can't we expect it the same from Precious?

They don't want him floating in the perimeter, shooting contested jumpers and attacking closeouts, they would rather him setting screens and cutting to the basket. I don't know if its the coaches game plan that he occasionally plays the wing position, but they think that he just does it on his own.

He's bad at shooting, all jump shot (25th percentile), dribble jump shot(24th percentile), good at uncontested C&S(93rd percentile) but guarded C&S(1 percentile). Much worse in high school. i guess there's improvement.

[Degoat]

If he’s there Precious is the guy we need

[DAF86]

They don't want him floating in the perimeter, shooting contested jumpers and attacking closeouts, they would rather him setting screens and cutting to the basket. I don't know if its the coaches game plan that he occasionally plays the wing position, but they think that he just does it on his own.

He's bad at shooting, all jump shot (25th percentile), dribble jump shot(24th percentile), good at uncontested C&S(93rd percentile) but guarded C&S(1 percentile). Much worse in high school. i guess there's improvement.

Yeah, those type of numbers indicate that he's not very likely to ever improve his shooting. Spurs fans got spoiled with Kawhi. They now think every subpar shooter in college can become a 40% 3pt shooter in the NBA, when that's actually a very rare feat.

By the looks of it, the people here more interested on Precious seem to believe that he will be able to develop his perimeter skills (dribbling and shooting) to the point where he will be a 3/4 on the NBA. Heck, if you guarantee that to me I would also be on board, but I just don't see it. There are just too many red flags to expect him to ever develop those kind of skills.

[Dejounte]

They don't want him floating in the perimeter, shooting contested jumpers and attacking closeouts, they would rather him setting screens and cutting to the basket. I don't know if its the coaches game plan that he occasionally plays the wing position, but they think that he just does it on his own.

He's bad at shooting, all jump shot (25th percentile), dribble jump shot(24th percentile), good at uncontested C&S(93rd percentile) but guarded C&S(1 percentile). Much worse in high school. i guess there's improvement.

Can you share where you got these stats? Also, where did you get the high school stats? I can't find it.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=precious-achiuwa--bradley-beal--khris-middleton

Bradley Beal and Khris Middleton shared the same low %'s in college. Is it farfetched to say Precious could improve? Why? He's clearly working on these skills and with NBA players like D Angelo Russell, Carmelo, Kyrie... Which is unique in itself because I dont see many current prospects doing that.

[BackHome]

Because history has said that if you suck at making free throws the chances of your ever being good at mid or three point shooting is very very low. Can miracles happen sure you can always roll the dice but usually the house wins.

[Dejounte]

Because history has said that if you suck at making free throws the chances of your ever being good at mid or three point shooting is very very low. Can miracles happen sure you can always roll the dice but usually the house wins.

Really?

Precious has a 0.599 FT% in college

Michael Redd had 0.649 FT% for the first three years in college
Jason Richardson was also 0.649% for two years in college
Trevor Ariza 0.504 FT%
Ron Artest 0.589 FT%
DeMarre Carroll 0.604%
Antawn Jamison 0.614%
Baron Davis 0.631%
Jemari Grant 0.67 %
Jaylen Brown 0.654 %
Our own Dejounte Murray was at .663% in college, and hes now .780%

All of these players became passable, good, to great shooters in the NBA

A lot of others below 70% but im trying to select players closer to Precious FT%

[duncan2150]

Yeah, those type of numbers indicate that he's not very likely to ever improve his shooting. Spurs fans got spoiled with Kawhi. They now think every subpar shooter in college can become a 40% 3pt shooter in the NBA, when that's actually a very rare feat.

By the looks of it, the people here more interested on Precious seem to believe that he will be able to develop his perimeter skills (dribbling and shooting) to the point where he will be a 3/4 on the NBA. Heck, if you guarantee that to me I would also be on board, but I just don't see it. There are just too many red flags to expect him to ever develop those kind of skills.

You're wrong, me and probably others are viewing precious as a 4/5 in some small ball situations. That's what he is, he is Not a 3.

You take him for his athletism, he is good in transition, he can rebound, protect the Rim, he is good at the PNR, he can switch on the perimeter

You don't take him for his shoot or dribbling but you can develop that, because he can drive to the basket and he starts to shoot the three regularly. And if he improves that he could be a really interesting player.

[DAF86]

You're wrong, me and probably others are viewing precious as a 4/5 in some small ball situations. That's what he is, he is Not a 3.

I know Dejounte, for example, has expectations of Precious being able to develop those perimeter skills and be a full time forward, tbh.

But, if you take Precious to be a bigman then I just don't see the appeal. He would be a Keneth Faried at best. That's hardly a player that moves the needle in today's NBA, and far from one of our biggest needs.

[Dejounte]

I know Dejounte, for example, has expectations of Precious being able to develop those perimeter skills and be a full time forward, tbh.

But, if you take Precious to be a 4/5 then I just don't see the appeal. He would be a Kenth Faried at best. That's hardly a player that moves the needle in today's NBA.

Let me sum it up this way...

My satisfaction level for how Precious will turn out (1 being lowest and 10 highest)

If he ends up being a center for us: 7 - centers who can switch onto guards are valuable. Basically what Poetl does now on defense, but more athleticism and energy

If he ends up being a 4 for us (most likely scenario, IMO): 8 - this would mean he's at least making shots at mid-range reliably. Pair that with his ability to switch on guards, that's a suitable Aldridge replacement

If he ends up being a 3/4 for us (I've acknowledged how slim the chance is for this in several posts): 10 - this would mean he can ball handle well enough, shoot from 3 reliably. A player that does with his size and athleticism that is a total mismatch and probably an all-star.

And finally,
From having watched Precious for countless hours, I disagree with the comparison with Kenneth Faried. It is not an apt comparison.

[Dejounte]

Even if we take all of that out of consideration, one of the main reasons Precious is one of my preferred targets is because this team needs some serious OOMPH. More physicality, less pussies. We got a shot of that from Keldon, let's take another shot. Bring up the toughness a notch. No more softies.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Even if we take all of that out of consideration, one of the main reasons Precious is one of my preferred targets is because this team needs some serious OOMPH. More physicality, less pussies. We got a shot of that from Keldon, let's take another shot. Bring up the toughness a notch. No more softies.

I want some nasty.

[rankingtear]

Can you share where you got these stats? Also, where did you get the high school stats? I can't find it.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=precious-achiuwa--bradley-beal--khris-middleton

Bradley Beal and Khris Middleton shared the same low %'s in college. Is it farfetched to say Precious could improve? Why? He's clearly working on these skills and with NBA players like D Angelo Russell, Carmelo, Kyrie... Which is unique in itself because I dont see many current prospects doing that.

https://hashtagbasketball.com/nba-draft/content/everything-you-need-to-know-about-precious-achiuwa
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/precious-achiuwa/

Bradley Beal and Khris Middleton are good shooters in college. They may not have high 3pt% but they have touch in free throws, mid range and floaters, backed up with good form. I think your'e looking for Jaylen Brown and Jerami Grant as players with no touch in college and improved in the NBA.

Not impossible, but for a 21 year old SF who models his game after lebron and durant, his development curve is not good enough to confidently say he can improve significantly in ball handling and shooting for him to play the SF/PF in the next level.

[Dejounte]

https://hashtagbasketball.com/nba-draft/content/everything-you-need-to-know-about-precious-achiuwa
https://www.nbadraft.net/players/precious-achiuwa/

Bradley Beal and Khris Middleton are good shooters in college. They may not have high 3pt% but they have touch in free throws, mid range and floaters, backed up with good form. I think your'e looking for Jaylen Brown and Jerami Grant as players with no touch in college and improved in the NBA.

Not impossible, but for a 21 year old SF who models his game after lebron and durant, his development curve is not good enough to confidently say he can improve significantly in ball handling and shooting for him to play the SF/PF in the next level.

I don't see the high school stats in either website. Can you tell me how to find it?

That hashtag article on Precious is a great read. I suggest people to read it when they have a chance. Thanks for this resource.

[spurspl]

white/murray/keldon/precious/lma thats a pretty nasty defensive s5.

[exstatic]

This place is going to melt when the Spurs don’t draft The Precious. :lol

[Ignazzz]

Precious will be gone before 11, tbh.

everyone is sayin Like this about every player pointed as spurs target.
I noticed Hayes Okoro Avdija Halibarton Vassell went up in mocks
Ball Toppin and Waseman went down. Adding Edwards and Okongwu as sure bet it seems some choices left for spurs
Nesmith Achiuva Bey Willliams.

imo 11-14 of the Draft.

Poku is unknown for me

[spurspl]

This place is going to melt when the Spurs don’t draft The Precious. :lol

imagine what happen if spurs draft another 6'5 guard while keepin all our guards on board XD

[exstatic]

everyone is sayin Like this about every player pointed as spurs target.
I noticed Hayes Okoro Avdija Halibarton Vassell went up in mocks
Ball Toppin and Waseman went down. Adding Edwards and Okongwu as sure bet it seems some choices left for spurs
Nesmith Achiuva Bey Willliams.

imo 11-14 of the Draft.

Poku is unknown for me
They won’t draft Toppin. His defense is just Forbes level.

[Dejounte]

Right. A lot of good options at 11: Precious, Pat, Nesmith

Some more if they trade down: Isaiah, Tyler Bey, Jalen Smith, Poku

[Chinook]

They won’t draft Toppin. His defense is just Forbes level.

But they HAVE Forbes...

[Ignazzz]

​
They won’t draft Toppin. His defense is just Forbes level.

„they” spurs or top 10 teams ?

[Seventyniner]

This place is going to melt when the Spurs don’t draft The Precious. :lol

I don't know how I missed the LotR reference possibilities.

One pick to rule them all...

[exstatic]

​

„they” spurs or top 10 teams ?

Spurs. Plenty of teams draft poor defenders.

[exstatic]

But they HAVE Forbes...

Yes, but he wasn’t drafted, and somehow, even though90% of the fan base reviles him, they’re all in on the power forward version.

[BackHome]

Not me if this was a couple of years ago I would be like hell yeah. But I have seen the light and players have to be able to shoot especially 1 to 4 positions. If we had a championship team then he might fit a niche but right now we are not we really need to find starters who can play defense and offense or at least not be a liability in one.

[Ignazzz]

Spurs. Plenty of teams draft poor defenders.

so Toppin should be top#10 and our chances for PA are higher

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Despite what the bashers say, the Spurs are pretty darn good at scouting talent. I'm convinced at 11 there will be someone with a higher ceiling than most of the league hasn't identified that the Spurs will snag. It's a great spot for them in this year's draft since I'm hearing there's a lot of good, but maybe not great talent in it. That's perfect for a team that's been great at digging through the bargain bin over the years the way the Spurs have been doing it late in the first round. And this year, at the 11 spot, they have a few more quarters in their pocket than in years' past. I'm excited to see what that brings.

[exstatic]

so Toppin should be top#10 and our chances for PA are higher

They won’t draft The Precious, either.

[spurspl]

btw are there any close friends of one of our current players in this draft?

[Dejounte]

They won’t draft The Precious, either.



Love it when people are overconfident about things they don't know anything about, such as what the Spurs will do or won't do. It's hilarious to me. I don't like some prospects, but I try to stay away from claiming I know what the Spurs will do. That's ridiculous to me. Even if I really don't like that prospect, which is why people like you will make an absurd comment like this.

This is what exstatic is really confident about:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/530lhiA7f-NbxuVCQ0tL_tRU726F2NGBN8zrhaJPplbZP3pZ6_CnZrjfbD3R pQtZuxwX1HYii4Q5hE0NVuTjJEsTaqnx9YCccLf_kUOoY1FO4m yPF9c_wmYdQdWV-kTQ0wECBnMX=s320

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/9uZpOr4kXTo9mrT9YPMnD-3uRJl7Yc5ITrvEHiz-kplS2HnoYVthlp-q-yKKSX8LHr92l96mroXfU5GE7w_2SbqSUNS71t59NQPpYjtV_Gf O1gJU58f-TvIYGCCTKcrnBUWtBc8d=s320

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/R4FzW913Pza2KWj-7aziBFG8p3EiqZS7nfkzX_0BcdFCzhtMtOoiiz6OgnoSyNqC4P ivuM0I4W28JNE3HChDFULi6pMfTxdXKoM0MLeZRqQu0d-a8dWJlMWN0R7nrglQhV-Wvlca=s320

I don't even hate Poku, but it would be dumb for me to put all my eggs into a basket like that. Even Precious has his flaws that I would understand why the Spurs would pass on him, but to act like I know what the Spurs will do or won't do based off some flaws?

[DAF86]

Love it when people are overconfident about things they don't know anything about, such as what the Spurs will do or won't do. It's hilarious to me. I don't like some prospects, but I try to stay away from claiming I know what the Spurs will do. That's ridiculous to me. Even if I really don't like that prospect, which is why people like you will make an absurd comment like this.

This is what exstatic is really confident about:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/530lhiA7f-NbxuVCQ0tL_tRU726F2NGBN8zrhaJPplbZP3pZ6_CnZrjfbD3R pQtZuxwX1HYii4Q5hE0NVuTjJEsTaqnx9YCccLf_kUOoY1FO4m yPF9c_wmYdQdWV-kTQ0wECBnMX=s320

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/9uZpOr4kXTo9mrT9YPMnD-3uRJl7Yc5ITrvEHiz-kplS2HnoYVthlp-q-yKKSX8LHr92l96mroXfU5GE7w_2SbqSUNS71t59NQPpYjtV_Gf O1gJU58f-TvIYGCCTKcrnBUWtBc8d=s320

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/R4FzW913Pza2KWj-7aziBFG8p3EiqZS7nfkzX_0BcdFCzhtMtOoiiz6OgnoSyNqC4P ivuM0I4W28JNE3HChDFULi6pMfTxdXKoM0MLeZRqQu0d-a8dWJlMWN0R7nrglQhV-Wvlca=s320

I don't even hate Poku, but it would be dumb for me to put all my eggs into a basket like that. Even Precious has his flaws that I would understand why the Spurs would pass on him, but to act like I know what the Spurs will do or won't do based off some flaws?

Are you really gonna stand here pretending like you didn't guaranteed the Spurs wouldn't draft Vassell? :lol

[Dejounte]

Are you really gonna stand here pretending like you didn't guaranteed the Spurs wouldn't draft Vassell? :lol

Not sure, I doubt it. Find the post for me. I know I have a post saying if Vassell would be drafted, I would support him. Nonetheless, I did say "I *try* to stay away" in that post you quoted. We've had our differences, but at least you don't go around claiming you know what the Spurs are going to do. :eyebrows

[Sugus]

white/murray/keldon/precious/lma thats a pretty nasty defensive s5.

This is a dream lineup. I trust them to figure it out on offense... I'm just tired of seeing bad defense from the Spurs. I really think that, beyond any shortcomings Precious has that could or couldn't be fixed, his defense and intensity on both ends of the court are something we'd been lacking until Keldon showed up. Keldon & Precious at the 3-4 gives you very solid perimeter D, switchability, and given our defense-first guards, we have the potential to go back to being a very strong defensive presence.

I used to be skeptic about how a defensive-first lineup featuring most of our guards would fare on offense, but after the bubble I'm a full time believer. The guys had no problem whatsoever scoring and creating opportunities for themselves and others, White and Keldon especially, and when our vets weren't ball-hogging (ahem, Rudy, ahem). The biggest weakness of the current and future Spurs teams project to be rebounding, perimeter defense and volume shooting; Precious can instantly help with at least two, and maybe someday the three of them. I also believe some higher lottery team might snatch him away from us, but that's just how it is with the draft...

[Dejounte]

For sure.

If the Spurs draft Devin fucking Vessell (which I highly doubt they will) then I'll put my ego aside and have a slither of hope that there is something in the guy that's worth it. The Spurs have earned more than enough trust from fans that they know how to draft players *more often than not*.

Page 49. Saying "I doubt they will" (open to the possibility) =\ they won't

I've said he fucking sucks, that's about it I believe.

[cd98]

Just please don't draft another 6 foot 5 inch tweener. Just draft a small forward. Do it.

[duncan2150]

This is a dream lineup. I trust them to figure it out on offense... I'm just tired of seeing bad defense from the Spurs. I really think that, beyond any shortcomings Precious has that could or couldn't be fixed, his defense and intensity on both ends of the court are something we'd been lacking until Keldon showed up. Keldon & Precious at the 3-4 gives you very solid perimeter D, switchability, and given our defense-first guards, we have the potential to go back to being a very strong defensive presence.

I used to be skeptic about how a defensive-first lineup featuring most of our guards would fare on offense, but after the bubble I'm a full time believer. The guys had no problem whatsoever scoring and creating opportunities for themselves and others, White and Keldon especially, and when our vets weren't ball-hogging (ahem, Rudy, ahem). The biggest weakness of the current and future Spurs teams project to be rebounding, perimeter defense and volume shooting; Precious can instantly help with at least two, and maybe someday the three of them. I also believe some higher lottery team might snatch him away from us, but that's just how it is with the draft...

I agree with you overall

I don't understand why people don't see the value of an athletic big on this spurs team. The team needs rebounds, blocks, hustle...

I'm Ok that true centers are not valuable like old days but a 4/5 who can guard the perimeter, protect the Rim is one of our need.

[Dejounte]

I agree with you overall

I don't understand why people don't see the value of an athletic big on this spurs team. The team needs rebounds, blocks, hustle...

I'm Ok that true centers are not valuable like old days but a 4/5 who can guard the perimeter, protect the Rim is one of our need.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/0s1FIWR7htFhW-6AhdvnELOQVKWaUv1v_NWQNdRDtrK-sGT2UDtvaPg9q4-JJypgM3pYxX6gTpimiWCDeYdXW0P6HWmtsOROU2DYVB1MJPXer xRs1MfQsctdiDTEbA7J-sYNoQ1R=s320

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/MBpZvvO7vjrjG71UciLW8LqhRZZGPM65-2_fo8ATiLpwJUPmObIS53lpLGcKDouoRUBS09oRMzKDHUMgkz2 I-v8zYa00Q9e1v52m-9WZVojCdlDVvGYpN7LiBdeAJlizWc_uVVzX=s320

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/C1O6dRknUcI78Y5rY1j9H0lwdncqT71qhzHx4UpEwYkQ3F_24Z B2QfmZbaEnmG2s12T0X7-leUAA28S68Chwfy0fbDxkyNDNLOnBiaTAvLLS8B-Sa9_WzqakkEsecdt29d6tg5vq=s320

[Sugus]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/0s1FIWR7htFhW-6AhdvnELOQVKWaUv1v_NWQNdRDtrK-sGT2UDtvaPg9q4-JJypgM3pYxX6gTpimiWCDeYdXW0P6HWmtsOROU2DYVB1MJPXer xRs1MfQsctdiDTEbA7J-sYNoQ1R=s320

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/MBpZvvO7vjrjG71UciLW8LqhRZZGPM65-2_fo8ATiLpwJUPmObIS53lpLGcKDouoRUBS09oRMzKDHUMgkz2 I-v8zYa00Q9e1v52m-9WZVojCdlDVvGYpN7LiBdeAJlizWc_uVVzX=s320

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/C1O6dRknUcI78Y5rY1j9H0lwdncqT71qhzHx4UpEwYkQ3F_24Z B2QfmZbaEnmG2s12T0X7-leUAA28S68Chwfy0fbDxkyNDNLOnBiaTAvLLS8B-Sa9_WzqakkEsecdt29d6tg5vq=s320

Great to see your video manipulating skills are on the way up! Solid GIFs; any way you could make them loopable videos with Stremio or something like that? Just so the image isn't so small - though this is a nitpick, that's already a better job than I could do.

There were also other great clips on Precious' defense on the article linked by RankingTear, https://hashtagbasketball.com/nba-dr...ecious-achiuwa ; he's projecting to be an extremely solid and mobile defender, especially if he ends up playing the 5. We could in fact, provided we keep Jakob, play Precious at the 4 then slip him to a small-ball 5 when matchups allow us. A player like him opens up a lot of possibilities on both ends of the floor. And the Spurs are weak on the glass... Achiuwa was first in his conference in offensive rebounding. He's seriously almost a perfect fit for this version of the Spurs. Choo choo... Achiuwa train incoming.

[exstatic]

I agree with you overall

I don't understand why people don't see the value of an athletic big on this spurs team. The team needs rebounds, blocks, hustle...

I'm Ok that true centers are not valuable like old days but a 4/5 who can guard the perimeter, protect the Rim is one of our need.

Like Clint Capela? The guy that Houston salary dumped because he got played off the floor in the playoffs?

[duncan2150]

Not like capela more like Adebayo...

[Sugus]

Not like capela more like Adebayo...

Exactly. Capela and Achiuwa's games aren't much alike from what I've seen of both - and even then, the Rockets play a very particular, and IMO not good, form of basketball and I personally think it was a mistake letting go of Capela. The Covid outbreak really benefited them because their micro-ball playing style was being outright exposed - everyone was tired, they were dropping games left and right and being blown out by the hospital Nets before the pandemic forced a shutdown. There's definitely a place for players like Achiuwa in the league still, especially since he projects to be much more of a ball-handler and offensive force than Capela, who could literally do nothing but get the ball spoon-lobbed to him by Harden.

Another thing that separates Achiuwa from other similar prospects is his high drive and motor. He pushes the pace, can bring the ball up the court, play strong in transition, make quick reads and passes. And that same intensity will drive him to get better, unlike other prospects who are content with their current abilities and never develop further... I think that's what also separates someone like Keldon, from someone like Dejounte. The hunger. Never once did I see that from Capela when watching the Rockets, so I don't really understand the comparison other than "tall, lanky, mobile".

[Dejounte]

Clint barely dribbles the ball and scores mainly on alley oops and one-dribble-to-a-hook shot. He's never gone coast to coast or started from the perimeter to score. The comparison couldn't be farther apart. Makes me sad people just throw garbage comparisons on the wall and see if it sticks, all because they can't put any effort in to actually watch the player.

[spurspl]

This is a dream lineup. I trust them to figure it out on offense... I'm just tired of seeing bad defense from the Spurs. I really think that, beyond any shortcomings Precious has that could or couldn't be fixed, his defense and intensity on both ends of the court are something we'd been lacking until Keldon showed up. Keldon & Precious at the 3-4 gives you very solid perimeter D, switchability, and given our defense-first guards, we have the potential to go back to being a very strong defensive presence.

I used to be skeptic about how a defensive-first lineup featuring most of our guards would fare on offense, but after the bubble I'm a full time believer. The guys had no problem whatsoever scoring and creating opportunities for themselves and others, White and Keldon especially, and when our vets weren't ball-hogging (ahem, Rudy, ahem). The biggest weakness of the current and future Spurs teams project to be rebounding, perimeter defense and volume shooting; Precious can instantly help with at least two, and maybe someday the three of them. I also believe some higher lottery team might snatch him away from us, but that's just how it is with the draft...

offense wouldnt be so bad too. LMA works and improves his 3pt shooting, keldon shows that he can be a pure scorer on a high efficiency and white can score 20points in a single game too. Murray, well, he better work hard on shooting, passing and dribbling but for now i can see him as a guard focused mainly on defense. Precious would give us more defense and finally an offensive rebounding. Whats more, this lineup can be very fast on both ends of the court. It may work.

[exstatic]

Not like capela more like Adebayo...

A homeless mans Bam.

[DAF86]

I agree with you overall

I don't understand why people don't see the value of an athletic big on this spurs team. The team needs rebounds, blocks, hustle...

I'm Ok that true centers are not valuable like old days but a 4/5 who can guard the perimeter, protect the Rim is one of our need.

Poku gives you rebounds and blocks (and steals), plus offense, tbh.

[rankingtear]

https://nbadraftcomp.herokuapp.com/stats/?player=Precious+Achiuwa

Nice tool for comparing this years class with previous draft prospects.

[Sugus]

Poku gives you rebounds and blocks (and steals), plus offense, tbh.

Whilst not being anywhere near close to Achiuwa as a man-to-man defender, nor zone defender, nor rebounder, nor durable, nor ready to play in the NBA whatsoever. I'm also highly, highly skeptical that Poku's block and steals % translate to the NBA, it's been talked about before in this very thread I think, how deceptive they are. Don't compare both prospects as if they can translate the same things that their highlight reels show; just like it's perfectly fine to be skeptical of Achiuwa's shooting, it's just logical to think as Poku as an absolute gamble that might start to pay off in 2 to 3 years, if it ever does at all. And considering Poku is even more likely to play the 5 in the NBA than Precious is, I don't really see him succeeding as a prospect. But of course, different strokes for different people.

[duncan2150]

https://nbadraftcomp.herokuapp.com/stats/?player=Precious+Achiuwa

Nice tool for comparing this years class with previous draft prospects.

Interesting thanks.

[DAF86]

Whilst not being anywhere near close to Achiuwa as a man-to-man defender, nor zone defender, nor rebounder, nor durable, nor ready to play in the NBA whatsoever. I'm also highly, highly skeptical that Poku's block and steals % translate to the NBA, it's been talked about before in this very thread I think, how deceptive they are. Don't compare both prospects as if they can translate the same things that their highlight reels show; just like it's perfectly fine to be skeptical of Achiuwa's shooting, it's just logical to think as Poku as an absolute gamble that might start to pay off in 2 to 3 years, if it ever does at all. And considering Poku is even more likely to play the 5 in the NBA than Precious is, I don't really see him succeeding as a prospect. But of course, different strokes for different people.

When was the last time a FIBA player didn't increase their numbers on the NBA? I still remember RC saying he was skeptical of Scola being able to rebound at the NBA level. :lol

Pokusevski is a rebounding, blocking and stealing machine. I don't know what it is but the dude just has a knack for ending with the ball in his hands. I'm seriously not kidding when I say those things impressed me more than any aspect of his offense. If you want to question things about him, question how his one on one defense would translate to the NBA, or if he would ever put enough weight to hang around with NBA bigmen, but those things I mentioned (rbds, stls, blks), I have no doubt will translate, even if he sucks at everything else. He's just too good at them.

[Sugus]

When was the last time a FIBA player didn't increase their numbers on the NBA? I still remember RC saying he was skeptical of Scola being able to rebound at the NBA level. :lol

Pokusevski is a rebounding, blocking and stealing machine. I don't know what it is but the dude just has a knack for ending with the ball in his hands. I'm seriously not kidding when I say those things impressed me more than any aspect of his offense. If you want to question things about him, question how his one on one defense would translate to the NBA, or if he would ever put enough weight to hang around with NBA bigmen, but those things I mentioned (rbds, stls, blks), I have no doubt will translate, even if he sucks at everything else. He's just too good at them.

I have watched about two games worth of film on Poku, so I won't claim to be an expert or close to it. But on him, I tend to agree with Dejounte's analysis - I think players like him benefit much more than your average prospect from the lower level of competition around them. Most players that Poku faces are much shorter than him on average, much less strong than the players he'd face in the NBA, less quick. I saw him get a few blocks by chasing down his opponent from behind, something which might be easier in a lower league but is much less feasible in the NBA as a source for steals, IMO - only player I've seen that's really good at this these days is Thybulle, and he was always projected as a defensive savant. Again, I don't like to just list stats without context - where are those steals coming from, where's the blocks coming from? It's way different to be blocking someone from behind after he's blown you by, like I've seen Poku do, than to for example be fast or leaping enough to block a shooter's 3pt attempt, which so far I haven't seen Poku do at all. You might have film that sheds more light on this.

And rebounds is more of the same. He can use his combination of length and tall-ness to tower over the smaller players in the league, but once he gets to the NBA where the average player is close to as tall as he is, I'd bet money Poku's rebounding #s will go down. How is Poku going to fight a box-out with his lanky size and frame? How is he going to fight for offensive rebounds or crash the glass? Not to mention the very high injury risk that players with his frame have - even someone like Porzingis, by all means a player in the projection and trajectory Poku could be following, and someone who's evidently worked a ton on his body and bulked up, is still injury-prone and even now, isn't playing in his team's playoff series. Best ability is availability and all that jazz.

To be honest, if I'm drafting Poku, it's not for his defensive prowess at all. The things he's really special at, and the ones which I think could translate the most of his game into the NBA, are his vision, ball-handling, shooting. Now that is something where I'd be more inclined to your line of thinking "he's just too good at them for it to not translate" at some level. But defense... Nah. There are many clips (Dejounte posted some in the Poku thread I think) showing Poku getting manhandled and simply pushed aside on D by not even NBA players - and the worst part, which you haven't mentioned, is that he's likely to, and projected to, play the 5. With his frame. The five. Yeah... I'm good with Precious, tbh.

E: I forgot to mention something which I'd like to clear up. I don't outright believe Poku will be a bust, no matter how I've spoken of him. I think there's a real chance he can succeed if things go right for him and he develops... I just don't think the Spurs are the team for him, or rather, Poku isn't the player for the Spurs right now. I wish him the best, but hopefully we don't draft him and he can ball elsewhere.

[duncan2150]

When was the last time a FIBA player didn't increase their numbers on the NBA? I still remember RC saying he was skeptical of Scola being able to rebound at the NBA level. :lol

Pokusevski is a rebounding, blocking and stealing machine. I don't know what it is but the dude just has a knack for ending with the ball in his hands. I'm seriously not kidding when I say those things impressed me more than any aspect of his offense. If you want to question things about him, question how his one on one defense would translate to the NBA, or if he would ever put enough weight to hang around with NBA bigmen, but those things I mentioned (rbds, stls, blks), I have no doubt will translate, even if he sucks at everything else. He's just too good at them.

That's my two concerns about poku. His D against nba players and the weight. Can he add some strength, maybe. One thing i'm not sure about is his athletism ? Of course he runs very well for his size, i will take some rebounds, blocks shots because he is 7-0 but I have some doubts about the man on man D, switch on the perimeter...

[duncan2150]

I have watched about two games worth of film on Poku, so I won't claim to be an expert or close to it. But on him, I tend to agree with Dejounte's analysis - I think players like him benefit much more than your average prospect from the lower level of competition around them. Most players that Poku faces are much shorter than him on average, much less strong than the players he'd face in the NBA, less quick. I saw him get a few blocks by chasing down his opponent from behind, something which might be easier in a lower league but is much less feasible in the NBA as a source for steals, IMO - only player I've seen that's really good at this these days is Thybulle, and he was always projected as a defensive savant. Again, I don't like to just list stats without context - where are those steals coming from, where's the blocks coming from? It's way different to be blocking someone from behind after he's blown you by, like I've seen Poku do, than to for example be fast or leaping enough to block a shooter's 3pt attempt, which so far I haven't seen Poku do at all. You might have film that sheds more light on this.

And rebounds is more of the same. He can use his combination of length and tall-ness to tower over the smaller players in the league, but once he gets to the NBA where the average player is close to as tall as he is, I'd bet money Poku's rebounding #s will go down. How is Poku going to fight a box-out with his lanky size and frame? How is he going to fight for offensive rebounds or crash the glass? Not to mention the very high injury risk that players with his frame have - even someone like Porzingis, by all means a player in the projection and trajectory Poku could be following, and someone who's evidently worked a ton on his body and bulked up, is still injury-prone and even now, isn't playing in his team's playoff series. Best ability is availability and all that jazz.

To be honest, if I'm drafting Poku, it's not for his defensive prowess at all. The things he's really special at, and the ones which I think could translate the most of his game into the NBA, are his vision, ball-handling, shooting. Now that is something where I'd be more inclined to your line of thinking "he's just too good at them for it to not translate" at some level. But defense... Nah. There are many clips (Dejounte posted some in the Poku thread I think) showing Poku getting manhandled and simply pushed aside on D by not even NBA players - and the worst part, which you haven't mentioned, is that he's likely to, and projected to, play the 5. With his frame. The five. Yeah... I'm good with Precious, tbh.

I agree with pretty all your toughts

I also think if you draft poku that's for the offensive upside of the guy.

[DAF86]

I have watched about two games worth of film on Poku, so I won't claim to be an expert or close to it. But on him, I tend to agree with Dejounte's analysis - I think players like him benefit much more than your average prospect from the lower level of competition around them. Most players that Poku faces are much shorter than him on average, much less strong than the players he'd face in the NBA, less quick. I saw him get a few blocks by chasing down his opponent from behind, something which might be easier in a lower league but is much less feasible in the NBA as a source for steals, IMO - only player I've seen that's really good at this these days is Thybulle, and he was always projected as a defensive savant. Again, I don't like to just list stats without context - where are those steals coming from, where's the blocks coming from? It's way different to be blocking someone from behind after he's blown you by, like I've seen Poku do, than to for example be fast or leaping enough to block a shooter's 3pt attempt, which so far I haven't seen Poku do at all. You might have film that sheds more light on this.

And rebounds is more of the same. He can use his combination of length and tall-ness to tower over the smaller players in the league, but once he gets to the NBA where the average player is close to as tall as he is, I'd bet money Poku's rebounding #s will go down. How is Poku going to fight a box-out with his lanky size and frame? How is he going to fight for offensive rebounds or crash the glass? Not to mention the very high injury risk that players with his frame have - even someone like Porzingis, by all means a player in the projection and trajectory Poku could be following, and someone who's evidently worked a ton on his body and bulked up, is still injury-prone and even now, isn't playing in his team's playoff series. Best ability is availability and all that jazz.

To be honest, if I'm drafting Poku, it's not for his defensive prowess at all. The things he's really special at, and the ones which I think could translate the most of his game into the NBA, are his vision, ball-handling, shooting. Now that is something where I'd be more inclined to your line of thinking "he's just too good at them for it to not translate" at some level. But defense... Nah. There are many clips (Dejounte posted some in the Poku thread I think) showing Poku getting manhandled and simply pushed aside on D by not even NBA players - and the worst part, which you haven't mentioned, is that he's likely to, and projected to, play the 5. With his frame. The five. Yeah... I'm good with Precious, tbh.

E: I forgot to mention something which I'd like to clear up. I don't outright believe Poku will be a bust, no matter how I've spoken of him. I think there's a real chance he can succeed if things go right for him and he develops... I just don't think the Spurs are the team for him, or rather, Poku isn't the player for the Spurs right now. I wish him the best, but hopefully we don't draft him and he can ball elsewhere.

Poku gets blocks in all their varieties. Chasing from behind, closing out on 3 pointers, waiting on the paint as a rim protector, and even as a one on one post defender on the guy that is trying to post him up. Take my word, if he ever makes it on the NBA, he will be one of the top blockers.

Another thing, I don't know where this perception that NBA players are taller on average than Europen players comes from. Maybe years ago, not anymore, tbh.

[rankingtear]

It's crucial for Poku to show he can put on the weight and not lose his speed/agility at the combine, but he commented on a youtube video that he's still growing and closer to 7'2 now than his listed 7 ft height.

"Give me some time and I'm taking the NBA by storm. I'm only 18, I also grew almost two inches. Appreciate all the love!" - Poku

So he's practically bol bol now without the high center of gravity and injury/character concerns.

[Sugus]

Poku gets blocks in all their varieties. Chasing from behind, closing out on 3 pointers, waiting on the paint as a rim protector, and even as a one on one post defender on the guy that is trying to post him up. Take my word, if he ever makes it on the NBA, he will be one of the top blockers.

Another thing, I don't know where this perception that NBA players are taller on average than Europen players comes from. Maybe years ago, not anymore, tbh.

I won't speak for Europe as a whole of course, but I can nigh-guarantee you that players in the NBA are on average considerably taller than those in the league Poku played in. Maybe with top Euroleague teams, there isn't such a stark constrast (still I'd like to see some numbers on it), but on Poku's league, it's not really a question tbh.

And again, my bottomline remains the same... Poku's abilities might translate some, or a lot even. Then, he's going to have to add a lot of pounds of pure muscle, just to hang with the general level of NBA players' physicality. Then, since his mobility will probably be reduced, he'll likely play the 4/5 or probably a full-time 5, like Porzingis, a position where his weak frame and physical profile is at its worst disadvantage. Posters here complain about how Poeltl is too soft and lacks strength going against Jokic or Embiid? I shudder to think of Poku in that situation... Might legitimately break in half or get tossed out of the court on Embiid posting him up. Even decent-sized 4s will probably manhandle him, tbh, again there's highlights of players in that low level league just manhandling Poku.

And above all, the Spurs simply aren't the best team in terms of fit. They don't sorely need a project 5 that will be even less strong than Poeltl, that won't see major minutes his first 2+ years, and might cap out as a bench player due to not being strong enough to hang against starters. I fail to see why, if presented with the choice of either PatWill, Achiuwa, or Poku, the Spurs would take the latter instead of the former two. Again, I want to see Poku succeed, the Spurs just aren't the team for him right now, IMO.

[Sugus]

It's crucial for Poku to show he can put on the weight and not lose his speed/agility at the combine, but he commented on a youtube video that he's still growing and closer to 7'2 now than his listed 7 ft height.

"Give me some time and I'm taking the NBA by storm. I'm only 18, I also grew almost two inches. Appreciate all the love!" - Poku

So he's practically bol bol now without the high center of gravity and injury/character concerns.

This makes me like him even less as a prospect, tbh. But good for him, if he can bulk up to where his weight isn't an issue and his mobility isn't hindered (colossal IF), he's a walking mismatch even as a C.

[DAF86]

I won't speak for Europe as a whole of course, but I can nigh-guarantee you that players in the NBA are on average considerably taller than those in the league Poku played in. Maybe with top Euroleague teams, there isn't such a stark constrast (still I'd like to see some numbers on it), but on Poku's league, it's not really a question tbh.

And again, my bottomline remains the same... Poku's abilities might translate some, or a lot even. Then, he's going to have to add a lot of pounds of pure muscle, just to hang with the general level of NBA players' physicality. Then, since his mobility will probably be reduced, he'll likely play the 4/5 or probably a full-time 5, like Porzingis, a position where his weak frame and physical profile is at its worst disadvantage. Posters here complain about how Poeltl is too soft and lacks strength going against Jokic or Embiid? I shudder to think of Poku in that situation... Might legitimately break in half or get tossed out of the court on Embiid posting him up. Even decent-sized 4s will probably manhandle him, tbh, again there's highlights of players in that low level league just manhandling Poku.

And above all, the Spurs simply aren't the best team in terms of fit. They don't sorely need a project 5 that will be even less strong than Poeltl, that won't see major minutes his first 2+ years, and might cap out as a bench player due to not being strong enough to hang against starters. I fail to see why, if presented with the choice of either PatWill, Achiuwa, or Poku, the Spurs would take the latter instead of the former two. Again, I want to see Poku succeed, the Spurs just aren't the team for him right now, IMO.

Dude, Precious is 98, 78945 % more likely to be a "project 5" than Poku. :lol

[Sugus]

Dude, Precious is 98, 78945 % more likely to be a "project 5" than Poku. :lol

But he's 98.78945% more likely to be an NBA player, tbh. I'm exaggerating, but not so much. And of course, it's obvious to say that I don't necessarily see Precious having to strictly become a 5, but having the versatility to play some if required, which is another thing that makes him more valuable to me than Poku. I could see Precious developed into switching from 4 to 3 or 5 matchup-depending, which is hopeful, but still a miles more likely to be reached as a goal than having Poku develop into a starting-calibre NBA player. Again, my opinion on both prospects and as they pertain to the Spurs; I really hope some other team like the Raptors picks up Poku, and has the time and developmental coaching to bring out the best in him. I just don't want him on the Spurs over other prospects like Precious and PatWill, he isn't worth the #11 pick.

[rankingtear]

I'm speculating that if they draft a five , they would likely draft someone who can anchor the defense and pass at a high level. Basically searching for the next duncan/gasol. They tried to turn LA into one but then he didn't liked it and asked for a trade. Jakob jump in assist percentage also points to this.

[DAF86]

But he's 98.78945% more likely to be an NBA player, tbh. I'm exaggerating, but not so much. And of course, it's obvious to say that I don't necessarily see Precious having to strictly become a 5, but having the versatility to play some if required, which is another thing that makes him more valuable to me than Poku. I could see Precious developed into switching from 4 to 3 or 5 matchup-depending, which is hopeful, but still a miles more likely to be reached as a goal than having Poku develop into a starting-calibre NBA player. Again, my opinion on both prospects and as they pertain to the Spurs; I really hope some other team like the Raptors picks up Poku, and has the time and developmental coaching to bring out the best in him. I just don't want him on the Spurs over other prospects like Precious and PatWill, he isn't worth the #11 pick.

Sure, Precious is a safer bet at sticking around. He's also a really safe bet to never be more than an energy bigman off the bench, tbh.

[BackHome]

To be honest it’s a gamble on who ever they pick at 11 as we’re looking for a starting player not a role bench player. Who ever we pick Poku, Precious, or Williams we’re taking a risk they will develop into the player we think they can be. As some people have mentioned trust in the Spurs picking the right kid and being able to develop him to his fullest potential.

[Dejounte]

The outrage that happens in the game thread whenever Poetl refuses to dunk it and instead does an attempted layup and misses... Multiply that by ten if we get Poku

[exstatic]

The outrage that happens in the game thread whenever Poetl refuses to dunk it and instead does an attempted layup and misses... Multiply that by ten if we get Poku

A). Spurs don’t care. They don’t base their picks on fan popularity.

B). Can’t wait. :lol

[Dejounte]

A). Spurs don’t care. They don’t base their picks on fan popularity.

B). Can’t wait. :lol

Obviously, they don't....

I can't with you lol

People have their horses, I guess

Only one will be selected. My hope is y'all don't forget about your horse after a few years. There's no player I'm super attached to enough to care. But some of y'all just watch a few highlights of a player, get a hard-on and proclaim them the next Michael Jordan. You do you, I guess. I'm not that in love with any of these players, I share things to be excited about them and that's it.

This thread needs to be bookmarked for future use :)

[DAF86]

Vassell, Williams, Bey, Nesmith, Pokusevski, Precious. Watch the Spurs get none of these.

[Dejounte]

Useful info about the recent history of trades during draft night:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/iearyi/what_does_it_take_to_move_up_in_the_draft_an/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[BackHome]

The outrage that happens in the game thread whenever Poetl refuses to dunk it and instead does an attempted layup and misses... Multiply that by ten if we get Poku

Poku is an outside player I am drafting for shooting from outside. Poodle is not a shooter he is a down in the paint guy who should be able to dunk - Yeah that pisses me off.

[Dejounte]

One interesting thing if we draft Poku is it would probably signal the end of Samanic on this team. Drafting Poku is basically a sign that the Spurs are giving up on him. I don't see Poku playing C even if he bulks up, PF would probably be the position for him. I don't see a scenario where both are on the court at the same time, they don't really complement each other and our interior defense would be disastrous. For example: the strength difference between Eubanks and Samanic seems huge already and it's not like Samanic is a super twig.

[Atl Spur]

Luka is going nowhere....... nor should he! Precious or Williams are my choices

[exstatic]

One interesting thing if we draft Poku is it would probably signal the end of Samanic on this team. Drafting Poku is basically a sign that the Spurs are giving up on him. I don't see Poku playing C even if he bulks up, PF would probably be the position for him. I don't see a scenario where both are on the court at the same time, they don't really complement each other and our interior defense would be disastrous. For example: the strength difference between Eubanks and Samanic seems huge already and it's not like Samanic is a super twig.

We suddenly won’t need a bench?

[Chinook]

One interesting thing if we draft Poku is it would probably signal the end of Samanic on this team. Drafting Poku is basically a sign that the Spurs are giving up on him. I don't see Poku playing C even if he bulks up, PF would probably be the position for him. I don't see a scenario where both are on the court at the same time, they don't really complement each other and our interior defense would be disastrous. For example: the strength difference between Eubanks and Samanic seems huge already and it's not like Samanic is a super twig.

I have my issues with Sam, but he has a better chance at being a useful NBA player than Poke does right now. If for some reason the Spurs go with Poke in the draft, I don't think they'll do so expecting anyone's role of the team to change immediately

[DAF86]

One interesting thing if we draft Poku is it would probably signal the end of Samanic on this team. Drafting Poku is basically a sign that the Spurs are giving up on him. I don't see Poku playing C even if he bulks up, PF would probably be the position for him. I don't see a scenario where both are on the court at the same time, they don't really complement each other and our interior defense would be disastrous. For example: the strength difference between Eubanks and Samanic seems huge already and it's not like Samanic is a super twig.

If we draft Precious, Samanic wouldn't have much space either, tbh. At least not for the folks that want Precious at PF.

[tim_duncan_fan]

imagine what happen if spurs draft another 6'5 guard while keepin all our guards on board XD

I will be a one-man riot. The Holt kid will have to see me.

[Dejounte]

If we draft Precious, Samanic wouldn't have much space either, tbh. At least not for the folks that want Precious at PF.

I don't know, I'm not gonna sit here and BS you like I know how it's going to turn out but sitting where I'm sitting it just seems like positionless basketball and you find what fits together. Solution could be that when theyre on the court together, Luka plays PF and Precious plays C. When Luka sits, Precious can move to PF. Just my point of view and like I said we all have our horses...

[Dejounte]

Leandro Bolmaro just dropped out of the draft.

[tim_duncan_fan]

I want Precious to play more 3 than even 4, let alone 5. If that is pie in the sky fine, none of the others really wow me. I don't think Okungwu will be there, Wiseman won't be there and most of the other guys look like total non-entities, future serviceable journeymen, or 6'5ers.

Patrick, who I was high on before, is apparently a stiff, so I am willing to take a gamble on someone else.

Toppin is going to be just a guy. An NBA-level player but just about average. He looked good because he's filled out already.

Heck, I'd take that 6'9 scoring center from Washington if not Precious.

I need something with potential for growth and/or length&strength.

[twilo73]

What do you guys think of this trade:
https://tradenba.com/trades/TkUIW3X8Z

Ibaka would come in a sign and trade.

To Spurs:
Ibaka and 2# Pick

To Warriors:
LMA and 11# pick

To Raptors:
Wiggins

[Dejounte]

I want Precious to play more 3 than even 4, let alone 5. If that is pie in the sky fine, none of the others really wow me. I don't think Okungwu will be there, Wiseman won't be there and most of the other guys look like total non-entities, future serviceable journeymen, or 6'5ers.

Patrick, who I was high on before, is apparently a stiff, so I am willing to take a gamble on someone else.

Toppin is going to be just a guy. An NBA-level player but just about average. He looked good because he's filled out already.

Heck, I'd take that 6'9 scoring center from Washington if not Precious.

I need something with potential for growth and/or length&strength.

Center from Washington is Isaiah Stewart. Still crazy to me how often he was doubled in college as a freshman. I was put off by him when I learned that he didn't show much defensive versatility. He rarely rotates to defend outside of the paint. He rarely stepped out of the paint. He would get 3-second violation in the NBA every minute. I'm not going to say he's incapable of switching, because that was probably just the game plan. But if he gets drafted by the Spurs, he better show more movement on that end. Otherwise, he's strictly a center who will be a liability against small ball. This goes for any prospect with poor lateral quickness. Modern NBA demands players to be able to switch.

That being said, he has good size (7'4" wingspan) and the upside on offense is extremely high. This guy isn't a rim runner, he's basically LaMarcus Aldridge with the post-up and can draw defenses in to create space for shooters... If he reaches his potential.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/-JgqoME9hpY

Example of the double team @ 11:59

This is just one play of many

Just unheard of for me, but maybe I haven't paid close attention to things like this in the past years.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/-JgqoME9hpY

Example of the double team @ 11:59

This is just one play of many

Just unheard of for me, but maybe I haven't paid close attention to things like this in the past years.

Another example at 15:09... Fucking insane, man. Maybe I'm crazy but I just think it's a sign of dominance when you're being double teamed like that.

Yo, they're literally trying to deny him the ball with two defenders at 17:32. WTF!

Shaq level dominance at 18:37

[tim_duncan_fan]

Center from Washington is Isaiah Stewart. Still crazy to me how often he was doubled in college as a freshman. I was put off by him when I learned that he didn't show much defensive versatility. He rarely rotates to defend outside of the paint. He rarely stepped out of the paint. He would get 3-second violation in the NBA every minute. I'm not going to say he's incapable of switching, because that was probably just the game plan. But if he gets drafted by the Spurs, he better show more movement on that end. Otherwise, he's strictly a center who will be a liability against small ball. This goes for any prospect with poor lateral quickness. Modern NBA demands players to be able to switch.

That being said, he has good size (7'4" wingspan) and the upside on offense is extremely high. This guy isn't a rim runner, he's basically LaMarcus Aldridge with the post-up and can draw defenses in to create space for shooters... If he reaches his potential.

He's young. I think the defense can be taught. I'm not convinced that he won't be able to score in the NBA.

A low-post LaMarcus would be waaay better than jump-shooting LaMarcus when the games matter, assuming Isaiah gets near his potential.

[DAF86]

I don't know, I'm not gonna sit here and BS you like I know how it's going to turn out but sitting where I'm sitting it just seems like positionless basketball and you find what fits together. Solution could be that when theyre on the court together, Luka plays PF and Precious plays C. When Luka sits, Precious can move to PF. Just my point of view and like I said we all have our horses...

Well, wouldn't that work with Poku and Samanaic too then? :lol

[DAF86]

I want Precious to play more 3 than even 4, let alone 5. If that is pie in the sky fine, none of the others really wow me. I don't think Okungwu will be there, Wiseman won't be there and most of the other guys look like total non-entities, future serviceable journeymen, or 6'5ers.

Patrick, who I was high on before, is apparently a stiff, so I am willing to take a gamble on someone else.

Toppin is going to be just a guy. An NBA-level player but just about average. He looked good because he's filled out already.

Heck, I'd take that 6'9 scoring center from Washington if not Precious.

I need something with potential for growth and/or length&strength.

That's pretty unlikely to ever happen, tbh.

[exstatic]

That's pretty unlikely to ever happen, tbh.

Yeah, if you’re projecting that, you shouldn’t be throwing rocks at the Poku crowd. I mean, literally, all he needs is 20-25 lbs to be able to step on an N B A court.

[Chinook]

Yeah, if you’re projecting that, you shouldn’t be throwing rocks at the Poku crowd. I mean, literally, all he needs is 20-25 lbs to be able to step on an N B A court.

He needs that weight and for enough of his game to transfer to make him a useful NBA player.

[exstatic]

He needs that weight and for enough of his game to transfer to make him a useful NBA player.

And again, we disagree on this, and I would add that if it were obvious to the eye of the layman, he wouldn’t be available at 11. He’d be projected at 2 or 3, and he’d be drafted 2 or 3.

[Dejounte]

Well, wouldn't that work with Poku and Samanaic too then? :lol

I've said this already: their skills aren't complementary. Too much overlap in weaknesses.

[Dejounte]

And again, we disagree on this, and I would add that if it were obvious to the eye of the layman, he wouldn’t be available at 11. He’d be projected at 2 or 3, and he’d be drafted 2 or 3.

Are you trying to say here that GMs are passing him up only because of his weight?

No one is throwing rocks, people are only trying to snap you out of your unrealistic expectations. Cue the "oh but you believe Precious will be a 3". No, I've already acknowledged this for the 1,0000th time. I know it's an absolute slim chance. The difference here is you won't admit Poku being some sort of star is a slim chance either. You think it's as simple as gaining weight. To you, there's nothing flawed about his game at all. You see a couple nice passes, a couple nice 3s and think wow! It's Dirk! People were crazy about Anthony Randolph too. I get it. And I said this in an earlier post: with how much investment you're putting into this, I hope you follow Poku in the league after a few years.

This is all nothing new... So many people were obsessed with Nassir Little last year and now you don't hear a peep from any of those people.

[Chinook]

And again, we disagree on this, and I would add that if it were obvious to the eye of the layman, he wouldn’t be available at 11. He’d be projected at 2 or 3, and he’d be drafted 2 or 3.

Wait, so you DON'T believe his game needs to transfer over? You think if it doesn't transfer over, but he gains weight he'll still be able to step on an NBA court?

[exstatic]

Are you trying to say here that GMs are passing him up only because of his weight?

No one is throwing rocks, people are only trying to snap you out of your unrealistic expectations. Cue the "oh but you believe Precious will be a 3". No, I've already acknowledged this for the 1,0000th time. I know it's an absolute slim chance. The difference here is you won't admit Poku being some sort of star is a slim chance either. You think it's as simple as gaining weight. To you, there's nothing flawed about his game at all. You see a couple nice passes, a couple nice 3s and think wow! It's Dirk! People were crazy about Anthony Randolph too. I get it. And I said this in an earlier post: with how much investment you're putting into this, I hope you follow Poku in the league after a few years.

This is all nothing new... So many people were obsessed with Nassir Little last year and now you don't hear a peep from any of those people.

A lot of GMs pass on players for various reasons. There are still teams with biases against European players, period, let alone from a lower level league. Hell, every GM in the NBA who had a first rounder that year passed on Nikola Jokic, and he’s now an all star. Gobert slipped to 27 in a BAD draft. They’re not infallible, and they don’t like to take chances, for the most part. The Spurs have proved more willing to draft euros over all, and from smaller leagues.

[exstatic]

Wait, so you DON'T believe his game needs to transfer over? You think if it doesn't transfer over, but he gains weight he'll still be able to step on an NBA court?

Don’t be obtuse. YOU don’t believe his game will transfer. That where we disagree.

[Dejounte]

A lot of GMs pass on players for various reasons. There are still teams with biases against European players, period, let alone from a lower level league. Hell, every GM in the NBA who had a first rounder that year passed on Nikola Jokic, and he’s now an all star. Gobert slipped to 27 in a BAD draft. They’re not infallible, and they don’t like to take chances, for the most part. The Spurs have proved more willing to draft euros over all, and from smaller leagues.

So what? In your world, all euro prospects should go top 10? Like, "let's not even look at how mediocre Leandro Bolmaro looks in some aspects, he should go 5th in the draft. Because GMs view euro prospects so poorly all the time! Look at this best case scenario where it happens to one player every year!" Are you ignoring all the bad euro prospects and only looking at the good examples?

So are you acknowledging the second part of my post?

[Dejounte]

You're still living in the past if you think GMs haven't adjusted how they draft euro prospects now. And if you bring up an example where player X was drafted late in 2018 or whatever, maybe just maybe he wasn't drafted late because he was a Euro? Maybe it was something else?

[exstatic]

So what? In your world, all euro prospects should go top 10? Like, "let's not even look at how mediocre Leandro Bolmaro looks in some aspects, he should go 5th in the draft. Because GMs view euro prospects so poorly all the time! Look at this best case scenario where it happens to one player every year!" Are you ignoring all the bad euro prospects and only looking at the good examples?

So are you acknowledging the second part of my post?

Poku is that one player this year, and I never said, nor do I agree with any of the other hysterical garbage in your post.

[exstatic]

So what? In your world, all euro prospects should go top 10? Like, "let's not even look at how mediocre Leandro Bolmaro looks in some aspects, he should go 5th in the draft. Because GMs view euro prospects so poorly all the time! Look at this best case scenario where it happens to one player every year!" Are you ignoring all the bad euro prospects and only looking at the good examples?

So are you acknowledging the second part of my post?

Bolmara has never been projected as anything other than a second rounder.

[Chinook]

Don’t be obtuse. YOU don’t believe his game will transfer. That where we disagree.
I do admit that I was being a bit obtuse. But I also don't think his game is as good as folks are making it seem, let alone that it might not transfer completely. Regardless, if for some reason his game does transfer, then him gaining the weight isn't nearly as important since he'll be able to play down positions to avoid the weight issues. Even if it's not ideal, he'd certainly be able to play NBA minutes from jump street if he actually has an NBA-caliber floor game. None of those other skinny guys you bring up as comps had to stay overseas or in the d-league while they bulked up.

[Dejounte]

Poku is that one player this year, and I never said, nor do I agree with any of the other hysterical garbage in your post.

"Poku is that one player this year". Is this coming from your expert opinion? That's not a hysterical garbage claim at all...

[Dejounte]

Bolmara has never been projected as anything other than a second rounder.

I see. So because Poku has been projected mid-late first, combine THAT with your expert research and scouting, then he's definitely a player that should be a top 10 pick in this draft because these other GMs just have a euro bias and they don't know what they're doing.

[Chinook]

Basically, I think that there are two paths Poke has to coming over and succeeding. The first is that he comes over as a tall perimeter player who can already hang in terms of skills but won't be nearly as effective he's going to be due to weight issues. He'll be frustrating to watch but he'll also flash, sort of like rookie Murray but slanted more toward offense and less toward D. The other way will be that he comes over and basically bombs out as a perimeter player and has to take years to learn how to be a more traditional big, including bulking up and honing his rebounding and rim-protection skills. Eventually he starts being able to stick around as a lower-level rotation player who flashes perimeter skills every once in a while, kinda like Joff did. This second path might not be one he takes in the NBA but has to go back to Europe for like with Jan Vesely.

[DAF86]

He needs that weight and for enough of his game to transfer to make him a useful NBA player.

All the players in the history of the NBA draft needed, need and will need that. :lol

[exstatic]

I do admit that I was being a bit obtuse. But I also don't think his game is as good as folks are making it seem, let alone that it might not transfer completely. Regardless, if for some reason his game does transfer, then him gaining the weight isn't nearly as important since he'll be able to play down positions to avoid the weight issues. Even if it's not ideal, he'd certainly be able to play NBA minutes from jump street if he actually has an NBA-caliber floor game. None of those other skinny guys you bring up as comps had to stay overseas or in the d-league while they bulked up.

Gobert spent a bit of time in the gleague, played 45 games (0 starts) in the NBA, and averaged like 3p/4R/1bl as a rook. He didn’t exactly light the world on fire, and didn’t score in double digits until year 4.

Jokic is more of a mystery, as to why he slipped into the second round. He was pretty productive right off the bat, and certainly didn’t need to put on weight. He does, however, speak to my point of GMs passing on, and flat missing talent. He did, however, stay in Europe for a year.

[Chinook]

All the players in the history of the NBA draft needed, need and will need that. :lol

Not really. There are plenty of players whose games don't really transfer but who find themselves making new games in the NBA. Most role-players in the NBA were stars at lower levels but didn't have good enough star games for them to have that role in the NBA. For Poke, the amount of weight he needs to gain is related to how many of his perimeter skills transfer over.

[exstatic]

"Poku is that one player this year". Is this coming from your expert opinion? That's not a hysterical garbage claim at all...

No, I read and respect Tankathon, and they have him at 10 on their big board. They kinda think so, too.

You may not want to peruse the tankathon BB to see where they have The Precious...

[Chinook]

Gobert spent a bit of time in the gleague, played 45 games (0 starts) in the NBA, and averaged like 3p/4R/1bl as a rook. He didn’t exactly light the world on fire, and didn’t score in double digits until year 4.

Jokic is more of a mystery, as to why he slipped into the second round. He was pretty productive right off the bat, and certainly didn’t need to put on weight. He does, however, speak to my point of GMs passing on, and flat missing talent. He did, however, stay in Europe for a year.

I think we all agree that Jokic should've been drafted higher. But he had red flags that led to him dropping, his weight being one of them. From what I recall, scouts thought he didn't care about the game. When Denver drafted him, they were able to talk some sense into him and get him on a program to "fix" his body. Had that not happened, he'd've been another Ryan Richards who pissed away his talent because he didn't want it badly enough.

Gobert had no perimeter skills, so he needed to bulk up more to play the five. If Poke is seriously good enough to play as a forward, he'll be able to survive on the perimeter even while skinny.

[DAF86]

Not really. There are plenty of players who's games don't really transfer but who find themselves making new games in the NBA. Most role-players in the NBA were stars at lower levels but didn't have good enough star games for them to have that role in the NBA. For Poke, the amount of weight he needs to gain is related to how many of his perimeter skills transfer over.

Oh, ok. I see what you mean now. You are saying that if his skills don't translate he won't be able to modify his game and a adapt to a new role. He would never be a 3 and D type player. I can agree with that. Although, he's so good at so many different things that I think he could have niche somewhere, even if his projected "Swiss-army knife, playmaking unicorn" role doesn't really come through in the NBA.

[Dejounte]

No, I read and respect Tankathon, and they have him at 10 on their big board. They kinda think so, too.

You may not want to peruse the tankathon BB to see where they have The Precious...

Do you realize how wrong tankathon was last year and the previous year? Now we're getting to the root of your logic...

[Chinook]

Oh, ok. I see what you mean now. You are saying that if his skills don't translate he won't be able to modify his game and a adapt to a new role. He would never be a 3 and D type player. I can agree with that.

It's not necessarily that. It's that if those perimeter skills don't pan out, then he'll need to gain more weight and develop different skills to stick as a role-player. At 225, I think he could make it as a point-forward, especially if he can score at will and play passing lanes. But if he has to be a center who just flashes, then he'll need to be heavier. It's like the difference between adjusting to the NBA and forcing the NBA to adjust to you, if that makes more sense. He's 18. Him not being able to be a perimeter player in the NBA wouldn't ruin his career.

[Dejounte]

Hey guys, let's blindly follow this website's list where it has zero description of how the list was made (no methodology or anything) and who was behind it. Talk about a leap of faith...

[DAF86]

It's not necessarily that. It's that if those perimeter skills don't pan out, then he'll need to gain more weight and develop different skills to stick as a role-player. At 225, I think he could make it as a point-forward, especially if he can score at will and play passing lanes. But if he has to be a center who just flashes, then he'll need to be heavier. It's like the difference between adjusting to the NBA and forcing the NBA to adjust to you, if that makes more sense. He's 18. Him not being able to be a perimeter player in the NBA wouldn't ruin his career.

I know, I just threw "3 and D" as an example. The dude is so talented that I think he will stick in the NBA even if just as a 10th guy off the bench to throw a different look here and there. Andrea Bargnani was never the superstar many projected him to he, but he still stuck around as a playabale guy for about 10 years. And this kid is a lot more talented as a prospect. Trully, the main thing to see here is if he's able to get to the NBA and don't be thrown around like a rag doll.

[exstatic]

Hey guys, let's blindly follow this website's list where it has zero description of how the list was made (no methodology or anything) and who was behind it. Talk about a leap of faith...

Tankathon and The Stepien have been valid currency on this board for more than a few years. Don’t get butthurt because they have your guy at #38 on their big board. Take heart, they have Sacto reaching for him at #12. He’ll get his chance to show his quality.

[Dejounte]

Tankathon and The Stepien have been valid currency on this board for more than a few years. Don’t get butthurt because they have your guy at #38 on their big board. Take heart, they have Sacto reaching for him at #12. He’ll get his chance to show his quality.

You're still ignoring how wrong they have been, giving no justification to why they should be used as the bible draft resource. Tankathon and The Stepien has only been around for two years, so not sure why you're saying "more than a few years". Precious is not "my guy" and I've said as such by saying I'm not attached to any players here.

[Dejounte]

With all the shit I give DAF86 at least he considers it a possibility that Poku could be a 10th man. And at least he says he pulls his info from watching (true or not) than just saying he's pulling from a website. At least try to bullshit me here instead of saying all your eggs are in this basket called tankathon. (And I like tankathon)

[XDT76]

This is getting depressing, with the Spurs drafting in the lottery in over 20 years with 3 position of needs and we could not even find one player where everyone is looking forward to be drafted. Seems like praying for KJ to grow 2 to 3 inches might be the more likely way of solving one of our positional needs.

[Kurgan]

This is getting depressing, with the Spurs drafting in the lottery in over 20 years with 3 position of needs and we could not even find one player where everyone is looking forward to be drafted. Seems like praying for KJ to grow 2 to 3 inches might be the more likely way of solving one of our positional needs.

The fact that it's a weak draft at the top combined with Covid canceling lots of games has resulted in a situation where's there's not too much data on these prospects. That doesn't mean there's no one interesting. Spurs don't have a TD/Manu/Parker/Kawhi type franchise talent on the roster right now so the draft needs are not as obvious. Next year's draft should be much better with all the extra high school prospects. It would probably be in the Spurs best interest to trade LMA/Derozan for more draft capital. Hand the team over to the youngsters.

[exstatic]

With all the shit I give DAF86 at least he considers it a possibility that Poku could be a 10th man. And at least he says he pulls his info from watching (true or not) than just saying he's pulling from a website. At least try to bullshit me here instead of saying all your eggs are in this basket called tankathon. (And I like tankathon)

How about this? I admit the possibility that Poku could be less than a 10th man, a complete bust. He’s a high ceiling, low floor player. If he were high ceiling, high floor, he’d be a top 3 pick. There would be no risk. And why is some random persons internet video better than an actual draft site that analyzes 100 players?

[Chinook]

This is getting depressing, with the Spurs drafting in the lottery in over 20 years with 3 position of needs and we could not even find one player where everyone is looking forward to be drafted. Seems like praying for KJ to grow 2 to 3 inches might be the more likely way of solving one of our positional needs.

On the contrary, I think there are like fours guys that can realistically be expected to be there at 11 (Williams, Precious, Nesmith, Poke) that fans would be basically happy about but are quibbling about who's the best of those guys. That's normal. Heck, there are even players like Haliburton, Bey, Vassell and Anthony that have received fandom to lesser degrees. It's not likely that the Spurs are going to find a franchise player at 11, but it seems like they'll be able to land a young player who will add intrigue to the rest of the cache.

But yes, it would be nice if Johnson were a legit 6-8 player while maintaining his strength advantage over his peers.

[BackHome]

The Bottom line is the only way we are ever going to get a chance at another ring is that we need to tank when a great potential franchise Star is going to be in draft. For people who say No to tanking so you realize we wouldn’t have those championship if we had not tanked? We ranked to get David and we ranked to get Timmy so I am OK drafting at 11 this year but we are going to have to tank hard when a great player comes out to have any chance of winning another title.

[Dejounte]

How about this? I admit the possibility that Poku could be less than a 10th man, a complete bust. He’s a high ceiling, low floor player. If he were high ceiling, high floor, he’d be a top 3 pick. There would be no risk. And why is some random persons internet video better than an actual draft site that analyzes 100 players?

I'm not telling you to watch a random video with highlights where someone spoon feeds you their analysis on players. I'm telling you it's no different than being spoonfed by a website that provides analysis. I wouldn't even go that far either with tankathon, they analyze purely on numbers with no background information. There's no methodology explained behind their process on their big board. Tell me, what makes tankathon better than nbadraft.net? What's the justification for relying on these draft sites when their error of margin is high?

[exstatic]

This is getting depressing, with the Spurs drafting in the lottery in over 20 years with 3 position of needs and we could not even find one player where everyone is looking forward to be drafted. Seems like praying for KJ to grow 2 to 3 inches might be the more likely way of solving one of our positional needs.

It comes down to what it always does with people on almost any issue: risk tolerance. Some posters would rather go with a player who can play next year, even if his ceiling is 8th man. Some would rather roll the dice and take more risky approach with a high risk, high rewards type player who has the potential to really break out in 2-3 years, or to bust.

[exstatic]

I'm not telling you to watch a random video with highlights where someone spoon feeds you their analysis on players. I'm telling you it's no different than being spoonfed by a website that provides analysis. I wouldn't even go that far either with tankathon, they analyze purely on numbers with no background information. There's no methodology explained behind their process on their big board. Tell me, what makes tankathon better than nbadraft.net? What's the justification for relying on these draft sites when their error of margin is high?

What it comes down to is that you want something that doesn’t exist: a site that will perfectly predict the draft. Doesn’t exist. They all get it wrong.

As for their methodology, if you spent a lot of time on something like this, would you spill your secrets? I sure wouldn’t. That’s how you get ripped off. They do have a methodology. If you examine each profile, they have a column for strengths and weaknesses, and they weigh them. They are doing in depth analysis, even if it’s a black box to you.

[Dejounte]

What it comes down to is that you want something that doesn’t exist: a site that will perfectly predict the draft. Doesn’t exist. They all get it wrong.

As for their methodology, if you spent a lot of time on something like this, would you spill your secrets? I sure wouldn’t. That’s how you get ripped off. They do have a methodology. If you examine each profile, they have a column for strengths and weaknesses, and they weigh them. They are doing in depth analysis, even if it’s a black box to you.

That's not even what I'd want because it's impossible.

I treat it the same way I consume regular news: attain it from different points of the spectrum and condition your mind to formulate an informed and educated opinion. The "conditioning" part takes time and experience. This is the only way so you don't get misled and swept away by the dangerous current.

I equate just relying on tankathon as watching strictly Fox News for your news information. It isn't wise.

[exstatic]

That's not even what I'd want because it's impossible.

I treat it the same way I consume regular news: attain it from different points of the spectrum and condition your mind to formulate an informed and educated opinion. The "conditioning" part takes time and experience. This is the only way so you don't get misled and swept away by the dangerous current.

I equate just relying on tankathon as watching strictly Fox News for your news information. It isn't wise.

I used to use D/X, but they went pay. I’ve never found nbadraft.net to be useful. They are heavily NCAA biased, and slowly react to risers and fallers. I also told you that I use The Stepien, but it’s more articles/analysis than rankings. They only tier the lottery. They have good articles, though.

[BackHome]

Yeah I miss Draft Express they were so good and also only site that had tons if information on International players. I like Draft Net only for visual but Tankathon has better data and I think much more realistic with regards to its picks.

[pad300]

It's not necessarily that. It's that if those perimeter skills don't pan out, then he'll need to gain more weight and develop different skills to stick as a role-player. At 225 , I think he could make it as a point-forward, especially if he can score at will and play passing lanes. But if he has to be a center who just flashes, then he'll need to be heavier . It's like the difference between adjusting to the NBA and forcing the NBA to adjust to you, if that makes more sense. He's 18. Him not being able to be a perimeter player in the NBA wouldn't ruin his career.

I'm going to take an exception to this. There have been effective skinny centers in this league, in a much more physical era. Manute Bol played C at 200 lbs and 7'7" (basketball reference). As as spurs example, Francisco Elson, was a lightweight (not a particularly good player mind you, but a player. It was a much heavier era for bigs, and he was skill-deficient).

The video clips that show Poku getting pushed around in his league are very real, but so is his statistical output of blocks and rebounds. The way to square that circle, in my opinion, is that he has a very good nose for the ball. I cannot see that skill not applying in the NBA; despite his lack of strength (which may rectify with time), he will still be able to get some board and blocks in the NBA (again, IMO).

[exstatic]

I'm going to take an exception to this. There have been effective skinny centers in this league, in a much more physical era. Manute Bol played C at 200 lbs and 7'7" (basketball reference). As as spurs example, Francisco Elson, was a lightweight (not a particularly good player mind you, but a player. It was a much heavier era for bigs, and he was skill-deficient).

The video clips that show Poku getting pushed around in his league are very real, but so is his statistical output of blocks and rebounds. The way to square that circle, in my opinion, is that he has a very good nose for the ball. I cannot see that skill not applying in the NBA; despite his lack of strength (which may rectify with time), he will still be able to get some board and blocks in the NBA (again, IMO).

His court awareness will make him an elite weak side shot blocker. TaT has his projected 3 pt % at 37. Even 5-10 years ago, that combination of just shot blocking and 3 pt. Shooting was recognized as being extremely valuable in a player, Serge Ibaka being one of the early archetypes.

[Dejounte]

He's young. I think the defense can be taught. I'm not convinced that he won't be able to score in the NBA.

A low-post LaMarcus would be waaay better than jump-shooting LaMarcus when the games matter, assuming Isaiah gets near his potential.

My questions answered:

Interviewer: Your coach at Washington, Mike Hopkins, is a disciple of Jim Boeheim of Syracuse. Both of them are known for having their teams play a zone defense. Do you think there will be an adjustment for you to get back to playing man-to-man in the NBA?

Isaiah Stewart: No, because I've played man-to-man my whole life. That was one of the knocks on the University of Washington for me. I told Coach Hop I wasn't sure I wanted to go there because I didn't want to play zone. I wanted to play man-to-man. He didn't think I was going to choose the University of Washington, but I ended up choosing them anyway. I'm a guy who loves a challenge. I love playing man-to-man. It's something I've been doing my whole life. I feel like, after one year, I don't see why people have to question whether I can guard man-to-man when I've been doing it my whole life. If you look back at everything and everywhere I have played, I have always played man-to-man. I never had to go zone, and no one ever worried about me switching out onto a guard.

https://www.babcockhoops.com/amp/isaiah-stewart-q-a?__twitter_impression=true

Isaiah jumping up my list again. He's definitely my sleeper pick. People are going to wonder why he went so low (if he stays there where he's currently projected at).

[Dejounte]

interviewer: I’m not suggesting I agree with these assumptions, as you know I’m a big supporter of yours, but some of your critics have implied that you will struggle against quickness at the four and NBA length at the five. What do you have to say about those statements?

Isaiah Stewart: Go look at all of these mock drafts, then go back to my high school days, look at who I matched up against, and see what I did to them. See what I did to every seven footer I went up against. I went up against Bol Bol in high school — go watch that match up. I played against length my whole life. I've played against quicker guys my whole life. I've played man-to-man my whole life. I played zone for one year and now people have question marks with this and that. I've been a guy that's been showing up since day one and busting everyone's ass. I don't know why people are questioning everything. I'm not a guy that's fallen off. I'm a guy that's kept on rising. I went to college and did what I had to do. People are going to say what they have to say, but at the end of the day, there's basketball. Everyone can have all of these questions that can't be answered right now but when basketball resumes they'll be answered. I can tell the people questioning me just to wait until we play ball again.

This boy is going to be a beast, man....

[Chinook]

Man defense for a big is nice, but it's becoming less helpful with time. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the quote, but it sounds like he's dismissing questions on his switchability by claiming his a man-defender. That won't fly in the NBA. Bigs more than anyone else have to be able to at least help long enough to let their guard catch up. Plus, I worry about what type of players he can play man-defense with. If it's only centers or PFs, that's next to useless. If he can guard big wings, that's way more helpful, though switchability is a concern. Obviously if he can do 1-5, that's the guy Spurs have have probably always wanted.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/M5BNAlOk2tk

I couldnt find footage of Isaiah vs Bol Bol but I found this one vs Wiseman. Seems like Isaiah got the better of Wiseman in this video.

[tim_duncan_fan]

I'll just say that he sounds very indignant at the question and if the chip on his shoulder manifests in a mature way, I def want him.

It's a legitimate question though.

What I will say is that if he was perfect, we wouldn't be getting him at 11. We're gonna have to work with some kind of obvious flaw whoever we pick. This guy is high for me.

I don't think NBA heights will bother him. The league is mostly midgets right now and playing defense is borderline illegal anyway. He'll get buckets.

[Sugus]

Man defense for a big is nice, but it's becoming less helpful with time. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the quote, but it sounds like he's dismissing questions on his switchability by claiming his a man-defender. That won't fly in the NBA. Bigs more than anyone else have to be able to at least help long enough to let their guard catch up. Plus, I worry about what type of players he can play man-defense with. If it's only centers or PFs, that's next to useless. If he can guard big wings, that's way more helpful, though switchability is a concern. Obviously if he can do 1-5, that's the guy Spurs have have probably always wanted.

Hmm, I got a different impression out of the interview; I took it more as "I've played man-to-man my whole life, but after a year of playing zone, people are starting to question whether I can play man-to-man, which is ridiculous" sort of. Of course, I haven't watched enough to tell whether he's been good enough at zones the year he played with that scheme, though being rational I wouldn't expect Stewart (nor any player) to instantly excel when switching into a defensive scheme he'd never played before. As for the rest, definitely agree that zone defense is a big deal for a big man, and zones in general will probably be on the up the next few years, especially against teams that aren't known for their shooting.

If Stewart is as good a defender as he claims he is, I'm interested. Above all in every prospect I've liked, I want defense-oriented play and versatility. I'd much rather stay put in terms of the playmaking and shooting that we have on the team already, and go for a defensive-minded prospect, than try to keep adding on to our pretty big list of players who excel on offense and need the ball in their hands to be effective. I'm looking at the '21 draft in terms of going for "that guy" who can run an offense and be the offensive engine of the team; no prospects in this draft that I've seen look to be able to get to that level, tbh.

[Dejounte]

Hmm, I got a different impression out of the interview; I took it more as "I've played man-to-man my whole life, but after a year of playing zone, people are starting to question whether I can play man-to-man, which is ridiculous" sort of. Of course, I haven't watched enough to tell whether he's been good enough at zones the year he played with that scheme, though being rational I wouldn't expect Stewart (nor any player) to instantly excel when switching into a defensive scheme he'd never played before. As for the rest, definitely agree that zone defense is a big deal for a big man, and zones in general will probably be on the up the next few years, especially against teams that aren't known for their shooting.

If Stewart is as good a defender as he claims he is, I'm interested. Above all in every prospect I've liked, I want defense-oriented play and versatility. I'd much rather stay put in terms of the playmaking and shooting that we have on the team already, and go for a defensive-minded prospect, than try to keep adding on to our pretty big list of players who excel on offense and need the ball in their hands to be effective. I'm looking at the '21 draft in terms of going for "that guy" who can run an offense and be the offensive engine of the team; no prospects in this draft that I've seen look to be able to get to that level, tbh.

Same, the switchability has always been the #1 factor for me for prospects.

Again, I'd like to ask anyone to share to me any prospect that has been double teamed as much as Stewart has this year or years past. For some reason, this is being REALLY overlooked by most people.

[Sugus]

https://youtu.be/M5BNAlOk2tk

I couldnt find footage of Isaiah vs Bol Bol but I found this one vs Wiseman. Seems like Isaiah got the better of Wiseman in this video.

I'd like to see a more lengthy video showcasing both his strengths and weaknesses (might look for one later, maybe some draft profile on YT?), but I like what he showed in this short highlight reel. Looks to have an above average motor, plays strong, goes after his own misses and tries to contest everything. I didn't see much offensive prowess but again, might not have been the game to highlight that aspect. I also like his build - he's already got a fair bit of muscle, wide and squared shoulders that look to support a good frame, quick and nimble for his size, even better built muscle-wise than Wiseman (though Wiseman's shooting stroke is understandably top lottery material at his size and length).

Lots of interesting prospects at #11 this year, tbh. I'm kind of torn on this.

[Dejounte]

I'd like to see a more lengthy video showcasing both his strengths and weaknesses (might look for one later, maybe some draft profile on YT?), but I like what he showed in this short highlight reel. Looks to have an above average motor, plays strong, goes after his own misses and tries to contest everything. I didn't see much offensive prowess but again, might not have been the game to highlight that aspect. I also like his build - he's already got a fair bit of muscle, wide and squared shoulders that look to support a good frame, quick and nimble for his size, even better built muscle-wise than Wiseman (though Wiseman's shooting stroke is understandably top lottery material at his size and length).

Lots of interesting prospects at #11 this year, tbh. I'm kind of torn on this.

Look back a couple pages and look at the time stamps I put in those videos. He's crazy good on offense.

[pad300]

Look back a couple pages and look at the time stamps I put in those videos. He's crazy good on offense.

I'm not as convinced as you are. He's very strong for a college big; he's got grown man strength and can thus overpower other college players. But he's going to be playing against men grown into their own strength in the NBA, pure power isn't going to work near as well. Worse, there's the alternative reason to collapse multiple defenders on a big when he catches the ball : that he's not skilled/aware enough to pass it out. I didn't watch all the video, just your timestamps, but I didn't see his head coming up to see if he had a pass out option...

If he's as good as you think he is, he'd be much higher on everyone's draft boards. Whereas pretty much the highest I've seen him is late first.

[Dejounte]

I'm not as convinced as you are. He's very strong for a college big; he's got grown man strength and can thus overpower other college players. But he's going to be playing against men grown into their own strength in the NBA, pure power isn't going to work near as well. Worse, there's the alternative reason to collapse multiple defenders on a big when he catches the ball : that he's not skilled/aware enough to pass it out. I didn't watch all the video, just your timestamps, but I didn't see his head coming up to see if he had a pass out option...

If he's as good as you think he is, he'd be much higher on everyone's draft boards. Whereas pretty much the highest I've seen him is late first.

Interviewer: Are there any current or former players that you would compare yourself to?

Isaiah: Yes, the two guys that I watch the most are Montrezl Harrel and Bam Adebayo. Those are two small ball fives that I watch, and I see different ways that they have succeeded at the next level with scoring and helping their teams. A guy like Montrezl has a great motor and a will to not be denied. Then I watch Bam Adebayo and the way he passes the ball. That's something that I want to be great at, making the right passes and reads.

Valid concerns. Although your alternative reason: I'm not sure if college coaches are that savvy enough to think of that as an idea? Do they even scout the other team as much as NBA teams do?

[Dejounte]

pad300

I think the reason he's low on most boards is because he's an old school big who didn't flaunt 3 point shooting or showed switching ability in college. Seems that's the criteria to raise your draft stock these days.

[rankingtear]

Unless his Embiid nobody is gonna call post up plays for him, not in the modern nba. This is a reach at 11, could easily slide in the second round.

[tim_duncan_fan]

....

[tim_duncan_fan]

pad300

I think the reason he's low on most boards is because he's an old school big who didn't flaunt 3 point shooting or showed switching ability in college. Seems that's the criteria to raise your draft stock these days.

He's also a tidbit short.

[Dejounte]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJiTNCkXRAE

His match-up during this game appears to have the size and strength of an NBA player

This game was interesting to watch because this was a VERY physical game with his match-up. A lot of jawing between the two in the 2nd half. Isaiah is TOUGH.

Also… what a CRAZY ending to this game.

2:28 Nice block on a smaller guy

3:39 Drive and dunk against two players (though it didn’t count because of his teammate?)

2:46 Nice pass outside pad300

3:28 Nice display of agility to get the put back shot

3:34 Gets double teamed and passes it out for an assist

5:06 Amazing timing for a rebound

5:38 Gets QUADRUPLE TEAMED and passes it out for a nice assist

8:52 Good man to man defense on his matchup

13:18 Seems like he’s impossible to stop 3 feet within the basket

15:25 Superb pass

17:42 Good timing on this block

21:02 INSANE catch and shot

27:14 Clutch bucket

I urge people to pay attention to this prospect and watch his tape. He may be projected as a end of the 1st round pick, but I feel that’s going to change leading up to the draft.

tim_duncan_fan
Sugus

[Dejounte]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbpvZMq7g0U

Going against one of the top center prospects in this draft, Zeke Nnaji

This game is interesting because they played him at the 4 at times and he guarded more on the perimeter.

2:12 Gets covered pretty good by Zeke, catches the ball and lays it in

11:43 Gets double teamed, makes the shot

12:15 Makes a nice 3

12:38 Makes a smart read and nice pass

16:46 Good switch and cover

18:58 Good defense by Zeke on Isaiah

Overall, a quieter game by Isaiah. Arizona really denied him the ball and they would not let any entry passes get to Isaiah.

This was his second worst game of the year (statistics-wise) it looks like judging from his game logs. Ended up with 9 Points, 11 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal, 1 Block.

His match-up, Zeke Nnaji, ended up with 9 Points, 8 Rebounds, No Assists/ Steals/ Blocks

[Chinook]

I'm going to take an exception to this. There have been effective skinny centers in this league, in a much more physical era. Manute Bol played C at 200 lbs and 7'7" (basketball reference). As as spurs example, Francisco Elson, was a lightweight (not a particularly good player mind you, but a player. It was a much heavier era for bigs, and he was skill-deficient).

The video clips that show Poku getting pushed around in his league are very real, but so is his statistical output of blocks and rebounds. The way to square that circle, in my opinion, is that he has a very good nose for the ball. I cannot see that skill not applying in the NBA; despite his lack of strength (which may rectify with time), he will still be able to get some board and blocks in the NBA (again, IMO).

Manute Bol wasn't actually a good NBA player. He was just crazy tall and shot threes at a time when bigs just didn't do that. He as a massive net-negative. If that had to do with his weight or other things, I don't know. Elson was way better than Bol, but according to BBall Ref, he was 235. Even coming into the league he was 213. And again, he and Bol were not good players, nor did they have stable roles in the NBA. DeJuan Blair and Chuck Hayes were much better player than either, but people still realize that 6-6 is too short for a center. Yes one can overcome that, especially at the lower levels. But I wouldn't take the fact that Poke can avoid getting pushed around sometimes by scrubs as evidence he could hang playing a plodding center role (which was the part of my post that you bolded).

[duncan2150]

My questions answered:

Interviewer: Your coach at Washington, Mike Hopkins, is a disciple of Jim Boeheim of Syracuse. Both of them are known for having their teams play a zone defense. Do you think there will be an adjustment for you to get back to playing man-to-man in the NBA?

Isaiah Stewart: No, because I've played man-to-man my whole life. That was one of the knocks on the University of Washington for me. I told Coach Hop I wasn't sure I wanted to go there because I didn't want to play zone. I wanted to play man-to-man. He didn't think I was going to choose the University of Washington, but I ended up choosing them anyway. I'm a guy who loves a challenge. I love playing man-to-man. It's something I've been doing my whole life. I feel like, after one year, I don't see why people have to question whether I can guard man-to-man when I've been doing it my whole life. If you look back at everything and everywhere I have played, I have always played man-to-man. I never had to go zone, and no one ever worried about me switching out onto a guard.

https://www.babcockhoops.com/amp/isaiah-stewart-q-a?__twitter_impression=true

Isaiah jumping up my list again. He's definitely my sleeper pick. People are going to wonder why he went so low (if he stays there where he's currently projected at).

You bring something interesting here. Stewart was at the top of my list at the beggining of the process cause I really want an atheltic big for the team.

After that I have some doubts about his ability to Switch on the perimeter so I don't have him in My top list now. But if he can switch and defend on some guards sometimes then he is really interesting.
Still I think he is a little bit heavy on his foot.
The combine if we have one will Be very determinant for those kind of bigs.

Watch another prospect who is climbing a little bit : Jalen Smith. Rc was seeing scouting him à few times I think and he has a Nice combination, of shooting the 3, blocks ,athletism...while also showing some capacity to defend on the perimeter.

Tough it will Be a little high at 11

[Dejounte]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzBlfT-Jbwc

In this one, he’s going up against top 10 pick-- Onyeka Okongwu.

1:06 Good defense by Isaiah on Onyeka

2:30 Great post-up move against Onyeka

3:14 Getting chippy down low, Onyeka makes a shot against Isaiah. Looked like an offensive foul to me though

3:59 Nice post move

13:00 Nice fake against Onyeka. Gets the bite > Free throws

13:20 Mid-range shot over Onyeka

16:14 Hook shot over Onyeka

16:37 Nice post defense by Isaiah, better post offense by Onyeka

18:21 Isaiah overpowers Onyeka and scores

18:48 Great post defense by Isaiah

Isaiah Stewart’s statline in this game: 18 points, 10 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 blocks

Onyeka Okongwu’s statline in this game: 10 points, 9 rebounds, 1 assist, no blocks

My observations:

-Isaiah’s strength against top 10 prospect, Onyeka
-Isaiah boxes out well for his teammates

[rankingtear]

You bring something interesting here. Stewart was at the top of my list at the beggining of the process cause I really want an atheltic big for the team.

After that I have some doubts about his ability to Switch on the perimeter so I don't have him in My top list now. But if he can switch and defend on some guards sometimes then he is really interesting.
Still I think he is a little bit heavy on his foot.
The combine if we have one will Be very determinant for those kind of bigs.

Watch another prospect who is climbing a little bit : Jalen Smith. Rc was seeing scouting him à few times I think and he has a Nice combination, of shooting the 3, blocks ,athletism...while also showing some capacity to defend on the perimeter.

Tough it will Be a little high at 11

Really like Jalen Smith, insane development curve indicative of great work ethic. Analytics darling , 4th in box plus minus, 99th percentile in transition , 93th percentile in half court , 94th percentile in offensive rebounding, 68th percentile on 3's, 78th percentile unguarded 3's. Projected to be a better offensive player than he is in college.

[Dejounte]

Last one for today...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNWYyN-TO8s

This game was interesting because it gives us a peek of how Isaiah would do against small ball. Colorado’s tallest player played on the perimeter and their other big only played 13 minutes.

1:05 Good interior defense/ block on Tyler Bey

1:50 Nice 3

2:58 Nice post move

4:24 Easy 2

5:28 Another easy hook shot

6:27 Nice screen for his teammate

6:52 He bullies Tyler Bey here for an easy 2

12:19 Goes around Tyler Bey completely and scores an easy 2

12:45 Feels like this is his signature move. Lean in, bump, hookshot

13:53 Abuses Tyler Bey defensively, gets a block

16:01 Great post defense, gets the block

19:43 Signature move again

Nice stat line by Isaiah, but they lost: 23 Points, 8 Rebounds, 1 Assist, 1 Steal, 4 Blocks

My observations:

-Isaiah would bully in the interior if the opposing team plays small ball
-This was a good game to watch for how Isaiah would deal with the modern NBA (on offense at least. On defense, still hard to gauge since they played zone).

[BackHome]

He will go mid first to early second round.

[Dejounte]

He will go mid first to early second round.

And I feel teams will regret passing up on him, similar to Keldon.

He holds his own and in some ways, wins the competition against prospects projected higher than him.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Who is the Spurstalk consensus?

Someone make a poll.


And I feel teams will regret passing up on him, similar to Keldon.

He holds his own and in some ways, wins the competition against prospects projected higher than him.

Agreed.


Also, mid-first is pick 15 and we are #11. Not much of a reach if the team thinks he could become a 18-20 ppg post scorer.

[Thomas82]

Really like Jalen Smith, insane development curve indicative of great work ethic. Analytics darling , 4th in box plus minus, 99th percentile in transition , 93th percentile in half court , 94th percentile in offensive rebounding, 68th percentile on 3's, 78th percentile unguarded 3's. Projected to be a better offensive player than he is in college.

If we don't get James Wiseman or Precious Achiuwa, I would be happy with Jalen Smith.

[XDT76]

Wonder if we could interest Boston to give us the 14 and 30 pick with our 11 and 41 then we just get Jalen Smith and one of the Bey brothers.

[JuneJive]

I'm on the Jalen Smith train as well.

Weren't there some news that he was scouted by R.C. in person.

[BackHome]

Really like Jalen Smith, insane development curve indicative of great work ethic. Analytics darling , 4th in box plus minus, 99th percentile in transition , 93th percentile in half court , 94th percentile in offensive rebounding, 68th percentile on 3's, 78th percentile unguarded 3's. Projected to be a better offensive player than he is in college.

I think your own to something I watched a lot of his vids and came away quite surprised I am starting to really like this kid he has both an offensive and definitely a defensive mind set. Need to watch some more vida but definitely is now in my top 3 picks.

[duncan2150]

I'm on the Jalen Smith train as well.

Weren't there some news that he was scouted by R.C. in person.

I saw this a few days ago.
https://twitter.com/EricSal_7/status/1296631967358816256?s=01

[Dejounte]

I'm checking out Jalen Smith a bit more. My first impression before was that it would be a boring high floor, low ceiling pick. A pick that would be perfect if we already had stars in place. My second impression today remains largely the same, but I do admit, his switchability is impressive. My main observation is that he plays within himself/ knows his role, and has solid fundamentals. While I think he doesnt have star upside, he would be a nice piece that wont mess up the chemistry. He knows where to be at all times. He's not chaotic at all. I think his defense along with White would be pretty crazy. It doesn't stand out like a player who's a hound and being overly aggressive, but he knows how to get in position very well. Would be a really useful player. If the Spurs really dont see any star potential at 11, I would be fine with Jalen.

[Chinook]

It's okay to draft a role-player at 11, especially if he can come in and be a starter right away. The issue is that the guards are going to have to develop to carry the offense, because Poeltl doesn't have the ceiling to do more than ride the wave. If they go White, Walker, Johnson, they have some potential, but you'd wish they have someone like Nesmith to compete and add some more offense to that unit. Still more potential than anything else. Drafting Smith would very possibly mean DeRozan stays, as he'd still have an obvious role with the team for a couple more years. Not ideal, but it could make sense for the right money.

[duncan2150]

I'm checking out Jalen Smith a bit more. My first impression before was that it would be a boring high floor, low ceiling pick. A pick that would be perfect if we already had stars in place. My second impression today remains largely the same, but I do admit, his switchability is impressive. My main observation is that he plays within himself/ knows his role, and has solid fundamentals. While I think he doesnt have star upside, he would be a nice piece that wont mess up the chemistry. He knows where to be at all times. He's not chaotic at all. I think his defense along with White would be pretty crazy. It doesn't stand out like a player who's a hound and being overly aggressive, but he knows how to get in position very well. Would be a really useful player. If the Spurs really dont see any star potential at 11, I would be fine with Jalen.

I'm Ok with you plus his shooting touch. He shoots the 3 pretty well and the form looks pure/clean.

[talkspurs]

I am still wanting the Spurs to trade with boston for two of their picks. I think that is the best outcome. If we can somehow trade LMA or DDR with Gay to GS for their pick and Wiggins that would be even better as it would give us some room under tax limit as well. I would think they would want LMA and with him going to someone that has a good shot at ringing he might be ok with it. If we can then send DDR to Orl for Bamba and a future first. that would be a solid off season. 3 trades is a lot thought so I am not expecting it to happen.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/JnEzFq7Lpsw

Takeaways on offense: Sets nice screens. Can foresee screen and pop being his main thing with the Spurs, other than finding 3pt shots by off-ball movement. Obviously a good 3 point shooter, but isnt soft and doesnt fall in love with just hanging out at the perimeter until someone passes it to him to shoot (like Bertans). He will go down low, within 3 - 5 feet of the basket, do some really basic post moves and gets all his shots inside that way.

Takeaways on defense: he's adequately strong, meaning he can hold his own against big centers. Not full-time, but enough. Poetl and him would be a good tandem. He keeps his arms up like a smart defender, and has good timing for jumping to get a block. He would be backed down occasionally if the center is big and strong (but those are extinct in the NBA), but the main thing is at least he doesn't get shoved away and gets outrebounded because he's not strong enough. Uses chest to make his defender feel him.

[Dejounte]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3_CTmymmWw

In this game, his match-up was against top center prospect, Xavier Tillman.

The ending to this game was exciting.

Jalen is the type of player who won’t make you pull your fucking hair out (like I think Poku would). He’s solid enough not to get lost on defense and will probably learn complex offensive sets early (saw him setting off ball screens like a smart basketball player would).

Main takeaways on offense: Made a seriously clutch 3 to lead a comeback against Michigan State. Like I said before, he takes confident shots and not stupid ones. I think while that sounds simple, it’s what keeps you in the NBA. Didn’t score much until the second half when he had a flurry of points inside and outside. He doesn’t create shots for players, so don’t expect him to. That won’t be his role in the NBA.

Main takeaways on defense: He was manhandled, I think 1-2 times, by Xavier Tillman, but that’s alright I guess because I don’t expect him to be guarding centers full-time in the NBA. Made a critical defensive play on Tillman late in the game to seal the win. When switched on a perimeter player, he was in good defensive position.

Jalen Smith’s stat line in this game: 17 points, 10 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 block, 2 turnovers

His match-up, Xavier Tillman’s stat line: 18 points, 11 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal, 2 blocks, 2 turnovers

[Dejounte]

Observations on statistics:

Jalen Smith having a free throw rate comparable to Onyeka Okongwu and much higher than Toppin's is very telling... His 3 point rate is also much higher than Toppin's as well. Jalen is effective both inside and outside.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/-8C1u53bUbg

Says he tries to emulate Mikal Bridges and Anthony Davis.

Observations on character: This is all based on one interview... Sounds self-aware. No red flags so far like sounding like he's spotlight-seeking or has a large ego. Isn't a scholar like Manu (but no player ever will be) but eloquent. Gives detailed enough answers, honest enough to point out flaws in his game (says he's an OK shooter and can be better)

[BackHome]

Observations on statistics:

Jalen Smith having a free throw rate comparable to Onyeka Okongwu and much higher than Toppin's is very telling... His 3 point rate is also much higher than Toppin's as well. Jalen is effective both inside and outside.

That made me look just did a quick compare to Oneyka:
Smith Rebound 12.1
Smith Points 17.8

Oneyka Rebounds 10.2
Oneyka Points 19.0.

[Dejounte]

That made me look just did a quick compare to Oneyka:
Smith Rebound 12.1
Smith Points 17.8

Oneyka Rebounds 10.2
Oneyka Points 19.0.

Yeah, comparatively Jalen's stats are up there with the best. However, advanced stats on offense for Toppin are just crazy. However, he WAS the focal point of their offense and his usage was higher. Maryland (Jalen's team) played within a team concept.