If the Spurs draft 11th

[Chinook]

Trying to match up with the Lakers or Clippers is silly imo. The Spurs' window for "contention" (used very loosely) doesn't start until around 2023-2024. By then LeBron will likely be out of the league and the exhaustion of draft capital will make itself felt for both teams. The Rockets will likely also be similarly depleted and Harden will be 34.

Yeah. I mean they could pivot in 2021 if they do well in free agency, but the general point does remain that they team shouldn't worry about contenders until they're also a contender. If they draft a ROY-level player or take a flier talented but flawed player like Wall or Hayward, then they might get up to dark-horse status where they could flip a contender if they match up well. Right now, there's no bona-fide core set up to where you're looking to compliment it over talent. That said, the right complimentary pieces can help players develop better, so there's nothing wrong with wanting some bigs. It just can't be the main thing yet.

[Chinook]

Also holy jeebus Wall's contract is awful. I've been wondering if he could do something similar to Paul in OKC. Like the talent is there, but that contract... Like as much as LMA and DMDR combined and for three more years.

[pad300]

I think people are trying to solve problems that don't exist. It doesn't matter if the Spurs can match up with LAL or LAC right now. They aren't good enough to even play those teams. Right now, the goal is to get two or three building blocks. At best White and Johnson are those guys, but the Spurs still need an ace above those guys. Getting that player is way more important than getting a James or Durant defender. They could prime Bowen himself and still not be a playoff team.

Absolutely.

If we want more :lobt:, we need an MVP level player. We don't have one now, and I don't think that anyone on the roster can be expected to develop into one. So draft the BPA, whoever he is. (That's why I think Poku is a serious option; he really could be an MVP level player in 5 years.)

[Seventyniner]

Also holy jeebus (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=22786) Wall's contract is awful. I've been wondering if he could do something similar to Paul in OKC. Like the talent is there, but that contract... Like as much as LMA and DMDR combined and for three more years.

Wall is younger than Paul, but that's about the only edge I would give him when comparing the two.

The Wizards might have to end up trading Beal to get out from under Wall's contract. I toyed around with some Wall + Beal + #9 for Aldridge + DeRozan + Murray ideas, but it unbalances the Spurs even worse in terms of being guard-heavy and puts them in contract hell for 3 years. They would likely have to give up an asset just to salary-dump Mills or Gay, and unless one of DeRozan or Aldridge extends their contract the Wizards would have an empty cupboard so I don't think they do the deal either.

[Chinook]

Wall is younger than Paul, but that's about the only edge I would give him when comparing the two.

The Wizards might have to end up trading Beal to get out from under Wall's contract. I toyed around with some Wall + Beal + #9 for Aldridge + DeRozan + Murray ideas, but it unbalances the Spurs even worse in terms of being guard-heavy and puts them in contract hell for 3 years. They would likely have to give up an asset just to salary-dump Mills or Gay, and unless one of DeRozan or Aldridge extends their contract the Wizards would have an empty cupboard so I don't think they do the deal either.

I don't think any team does a Wall/Beal deal. Basically no one has the matching contracts combined with the remaining roster to make a gamble like this make any sense. Closest I can come up with is Philly with Harris and Horford. They might have to include Simmons to make the numbers work, but if they do that, they'll need to get some legit assets back. With how bad Harris' and Horford's deals are, it wouldn't surprise me if Washington wasn't willing to take on that money either.

[Dejounte]

Talen Horton Tucker was an interesting prospect last year. 6'4" with a 7'1.25" wingspan. I wouldnt have minded him this year if he was available

[timvp]

I remember last year, you were pretty down on Brandon Clarke because his wingspan & standing reach measurements came in much smaller than expected. Iirc, you said he'd have a hard time competing because his measurements were similar to Danny Green's. If that draft could be redone, would you be much higher on Clarke now?

Good question. I was pretty low on Clarke's fit on the Spurs; I think I had him 20th on my Big Board before the draft -- so not super low but lower than a lot of others (Samanic was a spot or two ahead of him, for reference). I thought Clarke was a good fit elsewhere and expected him to produce efficiently like he did but I didn't think he was a good fit here.

I'm planning on writing a retrospective article of the Samanic pick and whether it was the right call to draft him while passing on Clarke and Thybulle, specifically. A shortened summary of what I'll write: Samanic underperformed as a rookie and still has the same flaws he had before the draft. Clarke and Thybulle were either as good or slightly better than expected. But it's still too early to say with certainty the Spurs were wrong because Clarke and Thybulle still have very clear flaws that made it difficult to play them at times when the competition ratcheted up in the bubble, while Samanic retains just enough upside to not call it a blatant mistake just yet. More likely than not it will be a mistake in retrospect because Samanic was always a longshot to make it but the final answer isn't yet known.

Thankfully, even in a scenario where Brandon Clarke takes another big step and becomes a legitimate starter on a good team, the Keldon Johnson pick looks like it will help the Spurs front office sleep at night.

[timvp]

I think people are trying to solve problems that don't exist. It doesn't matter if the Spurs can match up with LAL or LAC right now. They aren't good enough to even play those teams. Right now, the goal is to get two or three building blocks. At best White and Johnson are those guys, but the Spurs still need an ace above those guys. Getting that player is way more important than getting a James or Durant defender. They could prime Bowen himself and still not be a playoff team.

Yeah, this is how I see it too.

I think Spurs fans are so used to focusing on holes that need to be filled in the offseason that many don't yet realize there aren't any real holes right now because there's no boat to begin with. :lol

[Seventyniner]

I'm planning on writing a retrospective article of the Samanic pick and whether it was the right call to draft him while passing on Clarke and Thybulle, specifically. A shortened summary of what I'll write: Samanic underperformed as a rookie and still has the same flaws he had before the draft. Clarke and Thybulle were either as good or slightly better than expected. But it's still too early to say with certainty the Spurs were wrong because Clarke and Thybulle still have very clear flaws that made it difficult to play them at times when the competition ratcheted up in the bubble, while Samanic retains just enough upside to not call it a blatant mistake just yet. More likely than not it will be a mistake in retrospect because Samanic was always a longshot to make it but the final answer isn't yet known.


I always looked at it in terms of probabilities. For example, before this past season I would have said Samanic has a 30% chance of being a better player than Clarke or Thybulle 2-3 years from now, though he would be more useful to the Spurs than the other two going forward if he does pan out. This last season lowered my estimation to around 20% because even for the other twos' flaws, they were able to hang with NBA bench players for the most part. The little I saw of Samanic in the G-League showed me flashes of potential but also some cause for concern.

I think probabilities are the best way to judge this. Make an estimate and update it as information comes in, as opposed to going 100% or 0% in one direction and either sticking to that or flip-flopping.

[timvp]

I always looked at it in terms of probabilities. For example, before this past season I would have said Samanic has a 30% chance of being a better player than Clarke or Thybulle 2-3 years from now, though he would be more useful to the Spurs than the other two going forward if he does pan out. This last season lowered my estimation to around 20% because even for the other twos' flaws, they were able to hang with NBA bench players for the most part. The little I saw of Samanic in the G-League showed me flashes of potential but also some cause for concern.

I think probabilities are the best way to judge this. Make an estimate and update it as information comes in, as opposed to going 100% or 0% in one direction and either sticking to that or flip-flopping.

:tu

Samanic was always a home run swing. Even in a best case scenario he had a 0% chance of being better than Clarke (or even Thybulle, really) as a rookie. Clarke was one of the most efficient players in college basketball history, while Samanic was below average in the Slovenian league. The hope with Samanic was -- and still is -- that he learns how to harness his tools at some point before his rookie deal expires.

I wouldn't say Samanic took any notable steps in that direction yet but at least it's pretty obvious that the tools are actually there to hopefully be harnessed at some point.

[Sugus]

Well seeing as how both of those guys are top 3 picks you going to have to bottom out to get them. You are not going to find guys like that anywhere else. Are the spurs going to bottom out ? I have my doubts.

For sure agree with you - I guess you haven't been following my takes on this thread (wouldn't blame you, tbh). I want the Spurs to pick Precious/Smith/another 4 & Small Ball 5 prospect with this year's draft pick, then blatantly tank next season, since next years' draft is not only supposed to be much more top-heavy and talent-loaded than this years', but also filled with wing prospects. So the Spurs (if all goes to plan) could be approaching next years' draft with all holes plugged at the 1,2,4-5 positions more or less, and a top-4 pick in a wing-heavy draft. Seems like a good place to be aiming for the next Tatum/Brown, tbh.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1304544400484245508?s=19

[poopbox]

Good question. I was pretty low on Clarke's fit on the Spurs; I think I had him 20th on my Big Board before the draft -- so not super low but lower than a lot of others (Samanic was a spot or two ahead of him, for reference). I thought Clarke was a good fit elsewhere and expected him to produce efficiently like he did but I didn't think he was a good fit here.

I'm planning on writing a retrospective article of the Samanic pick and whether it was the right call to draft him while passing on Clarke and Thybulle, specifically. A shortened summary of what I'll write: Samanic underperformed as a rookie and still has the same flaws he had before the draft. Clarke and Thybulle were either as good or slightly better than expected. But it's still too early to say with certainty the Spurs were wrong because Clarke and Thybulle still have very clear flaws that made it difficult to play them at times when the competition ratcheted up in the bubble, while Samanic retains just enough upside to not call it a blatant mistake just yet. More likely than not it will be a mistake in retrospect because Samanic was always a longshot to make it but the final answer isn't yet known.

Thankfully, even in a scenario where Brandon Clarke takes another big step and becomes a legitimate starter on a good team, the Keldon Johnson pick looks like it will help the Spurs front office sleep at night.

Well the archetype player that Luka could be, a big with guard ball handling and shooting skills, is to me the second best player archetype you can have outside of the "big" do everything wing...so I don't fault the Spurs for taking a chance on a guy like that...I'm fine with them taking a chance on a guy like that cause if he pans out then the Spurs could be real championship contenders in a few years...

[bluebellmaniac]

So with the actual draft looking to be now in November, does that make anyone interesting now eligible to be drafted? Or is it based on projected season start date? Either way, additional players should be becoming eligible. Anyone of note or anyone that would make this draft more interesting?

[Chinook]

So with the actual draft looking to be now in November, does that make anyone interesting now eligible to be drafted? Or is it based on projected season start date? Either way, additional players should be becoming eligible. Anyone of note or anyone that would make this draft more interesting?

Players are eligible based mainly on their birthday relative to 12/31. If the draft happened in Januray, I think you'd see a lot of players petitioning to get in. But in November, you have the same crop. At best, maybe the NBA let's player re-reconsider going into the draft since they might have pulled out before their colleges cancelled or postponed games for the season.

[R. DeMurre]

So what are the advanced stats and your eye test telling you about current prospects?

For example, looking at Precious Achiuwa and Jalen Smith, I have to go with Jalen. Jalen played a tougher strength of schedule, and has all around better advanced stats than Precious.

ORtg.... DRtg

Jalen: 123.9....88.9
Precious: 101.3....82.5



OBPM....DBPM....BPM

Jalen: 7.7....4.3....12
Precious: 2.5....3.4....5.8


USG%.....WS

Jalen: 22.8....6.0
Precious: 27.7.....4.4

Memphis played a slowed down game, but that ORtg from Precious is scary low-- lower than Matisse Thybulle's last year, and he was thought of essentially as a defensive genius who had little to no offensive game. The other thing that stands out to me is Jalen managed a greater all around effectiveness with a lower USG%, which is almost always a good sign. Granted, Precious was a freshman and Jalen a Sophomore, and their freshman #s are closer, but I still have to give Jalen the overall edge.

[exstatic]

For sure agree with you - I guess you haven't been following my takes on this thread (wouldn't blame you, tbh). I want the Spurs to pick Precious/Smith/another 4 & Small Ball 5 prospect with this year's draft pick, then blatantly tank next season, since next years' draft is not only supposed to be much more top-heavy and talent-loaded than this years', but also filled with wing prospects. So the Spurs (if all goes to plan) could be approaching next years' draft with all holes plugged at the 1,2,4-5 positions more or less, and a top-4 pick in a wing-heavy draft. Seems like a good place to be aiming for the next Tatum/Brown, tbh.

Talking isn’t a sure thing, even in a better than usual draft. Since the flattened odds were put into place last year, six of the teams that were positioned in the top four, pre-draw, lost their places, and five of those eight teams wound up outside the top four altogether. That also has a ripple effect, as teams that get bumped out of the top four in turn bump other teams further back. The NYK had a miserable season, were slotted #6, got bumped back to #8, and won’t get a player much better than us at #11. You don’t have to bottom out to get a top 4 pick.

[widowmaker]

For example, looking at Precious Achiuwa and Jalen Smith, I have to go with Jalen. Jalen played a tougher strength of schedule, and has all around better advanced stats than Precious.

ORtg.... DRtg

Jalen: 123.9....88.9
Precious: 101.3....82.5



OBPM....DBPM....BPM

Jalen: 7.7....4.3....12
Precious: 2.5....3.4....5.8


USG%.....WS

Jalen: 22.8....6.0
Precious: 27.7.....4.4

Memphis played a slowed down game, but that ORtg from Precious is scary low-- lower than Matisse Thybulle's last year, and he was thought of essentially as a defensive genius who had little to no offensive game. The other thing that stands out to me is Jalen managed a greater all around effectiveness with a lower USG%, which is almost always a good sign. Granted, Precious was a freshman and Jalen a Sophomore, and their freshman #s are closer, but I still have to give Jalen the overall edge.

What about Killian Tillie?

[pad300]

What about Killian Tillie?

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=precious-achiuwa--jalen-smith--killian-tillie

[exstatic]

What about Killian Tillie?

Fuck no, at 11, which is what this thread is about.

[R. DeMurre]

For sure agree with you - I guess you haven't been following my takes on this thread (wouldn't blame you, tbh). I want the Spurs to pick Precious/Smith/another 4 & Small Ball 5 prospect with this year's draft pick, then blatantly tank next season, since next years' draft is not only supposed to be much more top-heavy and talent-loaded than this years', but also filled with wing prospects. So the Spurs (if all goes to plan) could be approaching next years' draft with all holes plugged at the 1,2,4-5 positions more or less, and a top-4 pick in a wing-heavy draft. Seems like a good place to be aiming for the next Tatum/Brown, tbh.


How would tanking work for the Spurs? Honest question. I feel at this point, a steady dose of minutes for White, KJ, Walker, & Lyles would produce at least an average team.

[BackHome]

Well if Poop signs Beli and Forbes then you know we are going to be tanking that’s one way. Or Pop can always do his mystery line ups or we can just straight up tank line we did for Timmy or like Dallas did to get Luka.

[widowmaker]

Fuck no, at 11, which is what this thread is about.

Shoot i thought this was a thread about drafting the best player available at 11 mybad.

[exstatic]

Well if Poop signs Beli and Forbes then you know we are going to be tanking that’s one way. Or Pop can always do his mystery line ups or we can just straight up tank line we did for Timmy or like Dallas did to get Luka.

You people need to come off this shit. The current financial climate makes Putting together a roster NOT including these two very challenging. Letting these two go, cutting Metu, cutting Zeller, resigning Poeltl puts them well over the cap (120M) and below the bare NBA minimum 13 man roster. They’d still have to pay #11. That would bring them to a 13 man roster, the NBA minimum.

[exstatic]

Shoot i thought this was a thread about drafting the best player available at 11 mybad.
It is, and Tillie ain’t.

[BackHome]

Damn Estatic you getting grumpier in your old age it’s the weekend step back and enjoy it.

[widowmaker]

It is, and Tillie ain’t.

Ok cool i don’t think precious and smith aren’t either.

[exstatic]

Ok cool i don’t think precious and smith aren’t either.

Smith is debatable at this point, and we agree on Precious.

All we can do at this point is watch videos, which are usually designed to highlight strengths and mask weaknesses. There really isn’t anything to do until the regional combines are held, and we get physical measurements and drill times.

[talkspurs]

We can get rid of beli and forbes and bring in two other cheap (min contract) players. this would cost less. so YES I am still for getting rid of them.

[exstatic]

We can get rid of beli and forbes and bring in two other cheap (min contract) players. this would cost less. so YES I am still for getting rid of them.

If they renounce Beli and Forbes, and cut Metu and Zeller, they’re at 11 players without Poeltl, and their cap figure is $120M. Assuming they can get Poeltl for $5M, that’s 12 players and $125M, needing one more to make our minimum roster size of 13. That would be pick #11, and will nudge them up towards $128M for a lottery team. I doubt the Holts sign off on any more.

[Seventyniner]

If they renounce Beli and Forbes, and cut Metu and Zeller, they’re at 11 players without Poeltl, and their cap figure is $120M. Assuming they can get Poeltl for $5M, that’s 12 players and $125M, needing one more to make our minimum roster size of 13. That would be pick #11, and will nudge them up towards $128M for a lottery team. I doubt the Holts sign off on any more.

I'm looking at Hoopshype for salaries. Is that a good source or should I be looking elsewhere?
https://hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio_spurs/

This gives $119.4M for 13 players, including a $5.1M QO for Poeltl, $2.4M for Zeller, and $1.7M for Metu, and not including Beli or Forbes. Did the Spurs really give Zeller that much guaranteed money?

Cutting Metu saves the $1.7M because it's a team option, and I sincerely hope Hoopshype is wrong about Zeller's $2.4M being fully guaranteed next year. Subtracting those gives $117.3M for 11 players including Poeltl's $5.1M QO.

What's the tax line next season?

[rankingtear]

8 million to resign poetl before tax, metu waived (500,000 guaranteed) , 11th pick(4mil), 2 minimum contract. 132 mil tax line projected.

[FutureMan]

8 million to resign poetl before tax, metu waived (500,000 guaranteed) , 11th pick(4mil), 2 minimum contract. 132 mil tax line projected.

8 million for Poeltl?! Good lord no.

[BackHome]

Yeah Poodle might cost that much but if you don’t want to sign him then work out a trade where we get a draft pick either this year or next it doesn’t matter just don’t let him walk for nothing.

[talkspurs]

If they renounce Beli and Forbes, and cut Metu and Zeller, they’re at 11 players without Poeltl, and their cap figure is $120M. Assuming they can get Poeltl for $5M, that’s 12 players and $125M, needing one more to make our minimum roster size of 13. That would be pick #11, and will nudge them up towards $128M for a lottery team. I doubt the Holts sign off on any more.

I am fine going with 13. I do not want forbs and beli on the team. (unfortunately I think forbes will be). You were saying it would be hard to put together a team with out them two. I would rather go with 13 players or 2 cheap players would not make it any harder.

[talkspurs]

Cant do it for a draft pick this year. Would have to be for a player of equal salary so sign and trade would not save us anything over just signing him.

[rankingtear]

Aaron Nesmith
Gravity Shooters


Saddiq Bey
Off Ball Versatile Floor Spacers


Precious Achiuwa
Energy Lob Catchers


Jalen Smith
Stretch Rim Protectors


Patrick Williams
Two-Way Big Space Playmakers


Devin Vassel
3&D Point of Attack Defenders


Kira Lewis
Volume-Drivers


Theo Maledon
3&D Initiators


Tyrese Maxey
Two-Way Secondary Handler


Alex Pokusevsci
Two-Way Skilled Floor Spacer



https://www.thestepien.com/archetypes/

[rankingtear]

Dejounte Murray
Offensive Scheme-Breakers


Derrick White
Two-way Initiators


Patty Mills
Offensive Scheme-Changers


Quin Weatherspoon
3&D Initiators






Lonnie Walker
Scoring Secondary Handlers


Keldon Johnson
3&D Versatile Defenders


Demar Derozan
Two-Way Primary Initiator


Rudy Gay
On-Ball Versatile Floor Spacers






Luka Samanic
Two-Way Skilled Floor-Spacers


Jakob Poetl
Defensive Anchors


Trey Lyles
Offensive Skilled Floor-Spacers


Drew Eubanks
Energy Lob Catchers


Lamarcus Aldridge
Playmaking Defensive Anchors



https://www.thestepien.com/archetypes/

[Dejounte]

Dejounte Murray
Offensive Scheme-Breakers


Derrick White
Two-way Initiators


Patty Mills
Offensive Scheme-Changers


Quin Weatherspoon
3&D Initiators






Lonnie Walker
Scoring Secondary Handlers


Keldon Johnson
3&D Versatile Defenders


Demar Derozan
Two-Way Primary Initiator


Rudy Gay
On-Ball Versatile Floor Spacers






Luka Samanic
Two-Way Skilled Floor-Spacers


Jakob Poetl
Defensive Anchors


Trey Lyles
Offensive Skilled Floor-Spacers


Drew Eubanks
Energy Lob Catchers


Lamarcus Aldridge
Playmaking Defensive Anchors



https://www.thestepien.com/archetypes/

Where's Bryn? Let me guess.... Gravity shooter? *Puke*

[Dejounte]

Aaron Nesmith
Gravity Shooters


Saddiq Bey
Off Ball Versatile Floor Spacers


Precious Achiuwa
Energy Lob Catchers


Jalen Smith
Stretch Rim Protectors


Patrick Williams
Two-Way Big Space Playmakers


Devin Vassel
3&D Point of Attack Defenders


Kira Lewis
Volume-Drivers


Theo Maledon
3&D Initiators


Tyrese Maxey
Two-Way Secondary Handler


Alex Pokusevsci
Two-Way Skilled Floor Spacer



https://www.thestepien.com/archetypes/

Oh... That was misleading. I thought these archetypes came from the website itself lol. You're just labeling the archetypes yourself based off what you read and think about each prospect.

[objective]

You people need to come off this shit. The current financial climate makes Putting together a roster NOT including these two very challenging. Letting these two go, cutting Metu, cutting Zeller, resigning Poeltl puts them well over the cap (120M) and below the bare NBA minimum 13 man roster. They’d still have to pay #11. That would bring them to a 13 man roster, the NBA minimum.

Don't understand what it is that you're saying here.

Spurs will have exceptions to use that could easily fill roster spots, even minimums like for Marco.

Forbes on a well coached Spurs team wouldn't even be in the regular rotation, there's no point in spending money on a guy who won't deserve to play. Of course Pop runs his rotations like Boylen, among the worst in the league so one can never be sure.

But the financial climate should actually make them more likely to renounce Marco and Forbes, not less. Don't pay guys who won't play, and with Murray/White/Mills/Walker/Johnson/DeRozan/Lyles/Gay/Aldridge/Poeltl on the roster, those guys don't play, and that's ignoring pick #11. Minimums and taking flyers on free agent euros like the Celtics have done with Theiss and Wanamaker. Spurs have done it themselves with Baynes and Neal.

Hell I wouldn't be so sure that Lyles is kept around because he's money that's easy to get out of.

[mo7888]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/9/14/21435542/nba-mock-draft

[spurspl]

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/9/14/21435542/nba-mock-draft

patrick williams 8th :o

[keithington1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC62EwrS85k&t=14s
As of right now I want Jaden McDaniels at 11. McDaniels, P Williams, Jalen Smith, Poku are my Spurs big board. Talent is talent at the end of the day. Ingram/ Issac hybrid. All he needs is a team like the Spurs, Heat, Nuggets to bring the best out of him.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Did any of you see Adebayo reject Tatum to seal that OT win tonight? He also had 9 AST's in the game.


The guy got 6 comments here before his draft, and 3 of them were from the OP. There weren't even many internet scouting reports about him, and he sure wasn't one of the guys being talked about for "ridiculous upside". He couldn't shoot the 3 (still can't), and the Heat got him at 14.


He may never play in an All Star game, but he was NBA ready, and he started making a difference to the Heat right away. I think there are a couple of those in this draft. Gimme one.

[Chinook]

Bam made the All-Star team this year, and he'll probably make a lot more in the next few years. But yeah, he's another guy who seemingly came out of nowhere with skills that didn't match his scouting report. But he also came into the league as a really good player from go. The closest guy to that I can think of is Neismith. Dude will come into the league like Bryn Forbes but could eventually be a lead scorer who's much better at leveraging his gravity to get other guys points than they project now. Think Devin Booker.

I guess I could see Precious as showing something like Bam. Dude does seem like a dribble-drive center. While he did nothing to seem like an assist god that Bam is, Bam also didn't show that in college.

Count me too as someone who think Jalen Smith could be the best player on a playoff team if everything goes right. I don't see him winning a title as the best player, but I do think he can outplay his draft slot.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Bam made the All-Star team this year, and he'll probably make a lot more in the next few years. But yeah, he's another guy who seemingly came out of nowhere with skills that didn't match his scouting report. But he also came into the league as a really good player from go. The closest guy to that I can think of is Neismith. Dude will come into the league like Bryn Forbes but could eventually be a lead scorer who's much better at leveraging his gravity to get other guys points than they project now. Think Devin Booker.

I guess I could see Precious as showing something like Bam. Dude does seem like a dribble-drive center. While he did nothing to seem like an assist god that Bam is, Bam also didn't show that in college.

Count me too as someone who think Jalen Smith could be the best player on a playoff team if everything goes right. I don't see him winning a title as the best player, but I do think he can outplay his draft slot.


:lol I forgot they even had an All Star Game this year.

[Dejounte]

We're at a good spot... would be happy with any of Nesmith, Smith, Poku, Pat, Precious. (Watch them trade the pick for a vet lmfao)

Future is bright.

[look_at_g_shred]

So, free agency will be before the draft this year?

[Seventyniner]

So, free agency will be before the draft this year?

Good question. The draft date has been set at Nov 18, but I haven't heard about when free agency will start.

Draft-day trades and such will be pretty hard if free agency starts first, though. My guess for now is that the free agency moratorium will start a week after the draft like normal, but that's definitely up in the air at this point.

[timvp]

This 11th spot is looking like it will work out well. One of Toppin, Hayes, Okongwu, Haliburton or Vassell has a good chance of dropping out of the top ten. That could make the pick pretty easy, tbh. Even though I don't love the Okoro or Deni fits that much, they are undeniably both good value picks at 11.

Then since the Spurs are at 11, the salary commitment is low enough that you can go with a high-ceiling prospect like PatWill, Hampton, Poku, etc. without much trepidation.

All in all, it looks like a good position to be in :tu




Unfortunately, it almost makes too much sense. Knowing how the Spurs love their draft day curve balls, it'll probably be something weird like Nico Mannion or Grant Riller or someone like that :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

This 11th spot is looking like it will work out well. One of Toppin, Hayes, Okongwu, Haliburton or Vassell has a good chance of dropping out of the top ten. That could make the pick pretty easy, tbh. Even though I don't love the Okoro or Deni fits that much, they are undeniably both good value picks at 11.

Then since the Spurs are at 11, the salary commitment is low enough that you can go with a high-ceiling prospect like PatWill, Hampton, Poku, etc. without much trepidation.

All in all, it looks like a good position to be in :tu




Unfortunately, it almost makes too much sense. Knowing how the Spurs love their draft day curve balls, it'll probably be something weird like Nico Mannion or Grant Riller or someone like that :lol

I totally expect the Spurs to draft somebody who'd otherwise get picked outside of the lottery

[talkspurs]

Im still on the Bey bandwagon. Will be good from Day 1 and can improve. He improved a lot this year.

[RC_Drunkford]

Sources indicate the Pistons have also made it known they’re open to trading the No. 7 pick. (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2909042-2020-nba-mock-draft-how-trades-could-change-lamelo-balls-future) Their best shot at a deal may be with a team willing to give up an established player or a rookie or sophomore with untapped potential. – via Jonathan Wasserman @ Bleacher Report (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2909042-2020-nba-mock-draft-how-trades-could-change-lamelo-balls-future)

[Dejounte]

[/URL]

Bye bye DeRozan or Murray

[RC_Drunkford]

the Pistons have about 40 million in cap space. Spurs could try to dump some salary by sending them some bench guys and #11 for #7. That might actually work since there are not a lot of free agents on the market and they need rotation players

[objective]

[/URL]

Lonnie is a sophomore with untapped potential, and a college teammate already there to ease his transition.

Lonnie for #7 straight up?

Do it, Jake From State Farm!

[FutureMan]

Maybe a trade like:

DET: Murray & SAS 11th
SAS: Snell & DET 7th

This trade would help the cap a bit too. Even opens up more cap for 2021-22

[DAF86]

Why the hell would we want to move from 11?

[talkspurs]

Maybe a trade like:

DET: Murray & SAS 11th
SAS: Snell & DET 7th

This trade would help the cap a bit too. Even opens up more cap for 2021-22

Det would jump all over that trade but it is a horrible trade for us.

[Dejounte]

The rumor doesn't say a player and a pick. It just says their 7th for a player. DeRozan or Murray without a pick for the 7th is a steal, IMO.

Use 7th and 11th on Jalen and Poku. Or Okoro and Poku. Or Toppin and Jalen. I don't think Toppin and Poku both would be a good combo. Many ways we can do it.

[r0drig0lac]

[/URL]

Demar for #7 + Kennard

[Dejounte]

Hey Detroit, we have a player with untapped potential....his name is Bryn Forbes... He can be as good as Steph Curry. We promise!

[RC_Drunkford]

the talent level between #7 to #11 is pretty even. It's totally stupid to move DeRozan or Murray just to move up 4 spots in the draft. If the Spurs target a big or PF I could see Lyles, Gay or Poeltl moved. That should already be enough. No way you move Lonnie, he's more talented than pretty much anybody outside the top 3 and if you move Murray or DeRozan you better get something back.

[exstatic]

the Pistons have about 40 million in cap space. Spurs could try to dump some salary by sending them some bench guys and #11 for #7. That might actually work since there are not a lot of free agents on the market and they need rotation players

NBA 101: dumping into someone’s cap space costs something. They aren’t going to take contracts, and then Swap their higher pick for our lower one.

[Dejounte]

the talent level between #7 to #11 is pretty even. It's totally stupid to move DeRozan or Murray just to move up 4 spots in the draft. If the Spurs target a big or PF I could see Lyles, Gay or Poeltl moved. That should already be enough. No way you move Lonnie, he's more talented than pretty much anybody outside the top 3 and if you move Murray or DeRozan you better get something back.

Dude I still don't understand how you are reading it as 7th for DeRozan (or Murray) and 11th

[RC_Drunkford]

Dude I still don't understand how you are reading it as 7th for DeRozan (or Murray) and 11th

you ain't the only one who proposed a trade idea my friend. I wasn't talking to you specifically. Now if we trade one of them to have #7 and #11 that is something that would make sense if the Spurs have their eyes on 2 prospects or want to move up even further. That would mean they are all in on the youth movement

[Sugus]

Lonnie is a sophomore with untapped potential, and a college teammate already there to ease his transition.

Lonnie for #7 straight up?

Do it, Jake From State Farm!

Unpopular opinion maybe? But Lonnie is worth more than a 7th pick. Yes, he had a disappointing showing in the bubble, but he's still gotten a lot better and shows much more promise than most prospects that would be available at #7. In fact, if he were a draftee this year, I have little doubt he'd go top of the lottery. For sure a better prospect than Lamelo B:lolll

[Dejounte]

CFNHxdInuSH

People are really underrating Q to the point where I feel he'll be better than half of the combo guards in the 2020 draft lottery when it's all said and done.

[SpurPadre]

What are the odds we'll end up drafting Leandro Bolmaro at some point?

[talkspurs]

Unpopular opinion maybe? But Lonnie is worth more than a 7th pick. Yes, he had a disappointing showing in the bubble, but he's still gotten a lot better and shows much more promise than most prospects that would be available at #7. In fact, if he were a draftee this year, I have little doubt he'd go top of the lottery. For sure a better prospect than Lamelo B:lolll

You do realize #7 is still in the lottery correct? The top 14 are lottery picks. The top 4 are determined and can be moved up into but all 14 are considered lottery picks.

[TD 21]

Maybe a trade like:

DET: Murray & SAS 11th
SAS: Snell & DET 7th

This trade would help the cap a bit too. Even opens up more cap for 2021-22

I'd do it. I know some would argue there's probably not a marked difference between 7 and 11 in this draft, but I don't view it as solely about that.

I see Murray as a looming problem, so this would be half salary dump, plus getting out ahead of a potential problem and potentially landing the much needed PG/primary play maker and basically an international one at that.

[Degoat]

What are the odds we'll end up drafting Leandro Bolmaro at some point?

I actually think he’ll be a good player for some team but I read somewhere that he opted out of this years draft

[Dejounte]

I've avoided watching PGs like the plague, but that changed today.

Going to break it down by tiers below.

It's jaw dropping how overhyped LaMelo Ball is. Dude is garbage.

Tier 1 - top level starter to borderline all star... Maybe all star?
Tyrese Halliburton
Kira Jr

Tier 2 - borderline starter to decent starter
Killian Hayes

Tier 3 - bench role players
Cole Anthony
Theo Maledon
Tyrese Maxey

Tier 4 - trash
LaMelo Ball
RJ Hampton

My tier 1s are the only players I wont be unhappy with if we drafted them

I'll post in each of their individual threads to describe what I see

These are based off brief viewing only

[timvp]

People are really underrating Q to the point where I feel he'll be better than half of the combo guards in the 2020 draft lottery when it's all said and done.

https://i.imgur.com/NErFV6F.gif

[Dejounte]

https://i.imgur.com/NErFV6F.gif

It's true lmfao. Wait a couple years. I think he looks capable of playing better than Cole, Theo, and Maxey.

Disruptive on D. Natural PG instincts. Reliable 3. More than you can hope for from a combo guard.

Try to watch him with the lens as though he's a 2020 draft prospect (his gleague and bubble play, not his college tape)

[Dejounte]

Updated tier list

Tier 1
Deni Avdija
Obi Toppin
Isaac Okoro

Tier 2
Jalen Smith
Aleksej Pokusevski
Aaron Nesmith
Tyrese Halliburton

Tier 3
Patrick Williams
Kira Lewis Jr

Tier 4
Isaiah Stewart
Precious Achiuwa

Tier 5
Tyler Bey
Robert Woodard II
Zeke Nnaji
Daniel Oturu
Xavier Tillman
Reggie Perry
Paul Reed

(Tier 4 isn't necessarily bad. I would still be happy if we drafted either guy)

(If we drafted any of the tier 5 guys with our #11 I'll be upset)

[timvp]

Updated tier list

Tier 1
Deni Avdija


Explain this fit to me, tbh. I'm willing to try to change my mind on Deni-to-the-Spurs.

But a non-shooting combo forward who isn't elite on D, not really a playmaker and who would be best playing off of a superstar is just an odd fit in San Antonio, IMO.

I wouldn't mind the pick because Deni is a pretty good prospect in a vacuum but if you pick him, the fit is so weird you probably have to start tearing the whole thing down to accommodate.

[FutureMan]

I'd do it. I know some would argue there's probably not a marked difference between 7 and 11 in this draft, but I don't view it as solely about that.

I see Murray as a looming problem, so this would be half salary dump, plus getting out ahead of a potential problem and potentially landing the much needed PG/primary play maker and basically an international one at that.

Exactly. I just worry about Murray. From his abilities to him being a potential basket case.

The 6 players I’m interested in are Wiseman, Hayes, Toppin, Okongwu, Avdija, & Haliburton. All are gone in 95% of drafts I’ve seen by pick 10. Getting up to the 7th pick basically guarantees we’d get to pick between 2 of those 6 I mentioned.

Hayes/Haliburton, White, Johnson, DeRozan, Aldridge
or
White, Johnson, DeRozan, Toppin/Okongwu, Aldridge

[Seventyniner]

Unpopular opinion maybe? But Lonnie is worth more than a 7th pick. Yes, he had a disappointing showing in the bubble, but he's still gotten a lot better and shows much more promise than most prospects that would be available at #7. In fact, if he were a draftee this year, I have little doubt he'd go top of the lottery. For sure a better prospect than Lamelo B:lolll


I agree that Lonnie would be pretty high up the board if he were in the draft. However, the fact that he's already halfway through his rookie contract counts. Some FOs, including perhaps Detroit's, would rather have the #7 pick under team control for 4 years than Lonnie for 2 years, even if Lonnie is a better player.

Due to the contract thing, I think Murray would fetch a better return from Detroit (who has the cap space to absorb his contract) even if they think he's not as good a player and he's getting paid a lot more. I could definitely see the Spurs offering Murray for #7 straight up. It unclogs the backcourt, simplifies the rotation, and allows a second bite at the mid-lottery talent apple.

[Dejounte]

Explain this fit to me, tbh. I'm willing to try to change my mind on Deni-to-the-Spurs.

But a non-shooting combo forward who isn't elite on D, not really a playmaker and who would be best playing off of a superstar is just an odd fit in San Antonio, IMO.

I wouldn't mind the pick because Deni is a pretty good prospect in a vacuum but if you pick him, the fit is so weird you probably have to start tearing the whole thing down to accommodate.

To put it simply: his speed with the ball is special. It's usually only little guards who are that quick, not from a big wing like Deni. That's the number 1 attribute for me that stood out.

His shooting form doesn't have any major issues. I think he'll be a better shooter than he's been credited for.

He's a 3 level scorer. Can post up, crafty layins, has hops, floater game looks like you're watching a guard. Just has many ways to score where I could envision him to be a go-to guy at the end of games.

Basically, he's Poku with less concerns on how he'll fit on defense (and also the other obvious differences). He can guard his position, he's strong enough not to be a pushover.

He also oozes "natural-born winner". The intangibles gained from his experience in winning high pressure games will prove invaluable.

I'll go into more detail later.

[Sugus]

You do realize #7 is still in the lottery correct? The top 14 are lottery picks. The top 4 are determined and can be moved up into but all 14 are considered lottery picks.

Of course - by "top of the lottery" I meant 1-4. Especially if he hadn't gotten that knee injury a few weeks? before the draft.

[Sugus]

I agree that Lonnie would be pretty high up the board if he were in the draft. However, the fact that he's already halfway through his rookie contract counts. Some FOs, including perhaps Detroit's, would rather have the #7 pick under team control for 4 years than Lonnie for 2 years, even if Lonnie is a better player.

Due to the contract thing, I think Murray would fetch a better return from Detroit (who has the cap space to absorb his contract) even if they think he's not as good a player and he's getting paid a lot more. I could definitely see the Spurs offering Murray for #7 straight up. It unclogs the backcourt, simplifies the rotation, and allows a second bite at the mid-lottery talent apple.

I don't think the Pistons would mind too much that Lonnie is halfway through his rookie contract - of course, if he'd had the same kind of season he had this year in his rookie year, he'd be a much more valuable piece, but the benefit of picking a non-rookie player is just that, to get a player that has a bit of trajectory already and a more fleshed out game. I don't particularly follow Detroit so as to know whether they'd prefer to gamble on a pick this season (aren't they not very good at drafting though?), but getting Lonnie while he's on contract for two more seasons is more valuable IMO than a #7 alone. I don't see the Spurs trading Lonnie away, anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

The Murray trade is much, much more enticing, and closer to the value I'd assign to the #7 pick. Dejounte is locked up for 4 years, is a good player with flashy stats despite his limitations, he's a culture guy and a leader. I can see Detroit being interested in him. The question is the same it's always been though - despite the obvious benefits, would the Spurs do it? I think it's a long shot, but would celebrate if it happened. I don't picture DJ in the Spurs' long term plans at all, tbh.

[rankingtear]

I think it's a mistake to trade Dejounte now. It was suppose to be a down year for him coming from ACL surgery ( see Gallinari , Lavine stats after ACL ). I think he will get back to all defensive team next year and expect another jump on offensive production ( significant jump 2nd year to 3rd year fg% 3pt% ft% ast% ). Decision making might still be questionable but you're primary creator does not need to be your PG or whatever the PG position means these days.

[FutureMan]

I agree that Lonnie would be pretty high up the board if he were in the draft. However, the fact that he's already halfway through his rookie contract counts. Some FOs, including perhaps Detroit's, would rather have the #7 pick under team control for 4 years than Lonnie for 2 years, even if Lonnie is a better player.

Due to the contract thing, I think Murray would fetch a better return from Detroit (who has the cap space to absorb his contract) even if they think he's not as good a player and he's getting paid a lot more. I could definitely see the Spurs offering Murray for #7 straight up. It unclogs the backcourt, simplifies the rotation, and allows a second bite at the mid-lottery talent apple.

If Detroit does a Murray for #7 swap does that create a trade exception for the Spurs or would that be open cap space for the Spurs to sign a free agents??

[objective]

The reasons I would consider Lonnie for #7 are:

1. To move up and get Okongwu. I don't think he slides past Washington, if he even makes it past Charlotte. Then I would want the Spurs to take Williams/Killian/Vassell/Halliburton etc at 11

2. Where does Lonnie fit if the Spurs keep White? They'll have White and Murray at the starting guards, and Keldon's play style translates well to a SF, or smallball 4 split with DeRozan who could still get extended.

I don't know if he works great off the bench when Pop out of the bubble forces time for Mills or in the worst case scenario, FORBES

Converting Walker into a defensive rim runner like Okongwu isn't the worst idea to me, you still have #11 to get wing or combo guard help.

And I think money matters as far as control years go. I remember the Spurs trading Hill and that trade was just as much about not being able to afford to pay Hill as it was getting Kawhi, that's how so many were able to call Hill being traded.

I like Lonnie, but I don't think Pop is all in and the longer you go with him just flashing here and there the lower his trade value gets.

[pad300]

People are really underrating Q to the point where I feel he'll be better than half of the combo guards in the 2020 draft lottery when it's all said and done.

"But when Quinn the Eskimo gets here
Everybody jump for joy"

[Dejounte]

"But when Quinn the Eskimo gets here
Everybody jump for joy"

???

[timvp]

To put it simply: his speed with the ball is special. It's usually only little guards who are that quick, not from a big wing like Deni. That's the number 1 attribute for me that stood out.

His shooting form doesn't have any major issues. I think he'll be a better shooter than he's been credited for.

He's a 3 level scorer. Can post up, crafty layins, has hops, floater game looks like you're watching a guard. Just has many ways to score where I could envision him to be a go-to guy at the end of games.

Basically, he's Poku with less concerns on how he'll fit on defense (and also the other obvious differences). He can guard his position, he's strong enough not to be a pushover.

He also oozes "natural-born winner". The intangibles gained from his experience in winning high pressure games will prove invaluable.

I'll go into more detail later.

Thanks for answering, breh.

I agree that Deni is a pretty good athlete. I don't think he has "special" speed for a three but he's definitely not a stiff. Above average for an NBA three? Yeah, I can buy that if we're talking about straight-line speed. (Sometimes he looks superhuman in some of his highlights -- but it turns out he's going against an Israeli league team that would struggle to beat American YMCA teams, tbh. So that's a bit of context to watch out for, IMO.)

Shooting-wise, I'm pretty low on him. His jumper is mostly arms, he dips the ball quite a bit before he shoots and his actual release angle varies by the day. He does use a little knee flex but it's unnatural and doesn't seem to generate any power. Add that to his 55% free throw shooting and it'd be really dangerous to draft him banking on him ever being above like a 32% three-point shooter.

Again the "natural-born winner" stuff is iffy depending on what games you're talking about. Stomping Israeli league teams when half his roster is former NBA guys and the other team has glorified volunteers doesn't really count. He has some pretty impressive FIBA wins to his name but his production was never overly amazing.

I could live with him at 11 due to his cockiness and confidence -- and the fact that he's obviously a hard worker who has improved quite a bit in the last couple years. Deni can be whiny at times but he also plays hard and with an edge ... and like the great Avery Johnson used to say, it's easier to tame a lion than to try to motivate a pussy cat.

But, yeah, the fit on these Spurs would be difficult without him turning into a good shooter somehow or becoming a much better playmaker than he has been to date. Put him on a team like the Bulls or Hawks who have shooting and scoring but need someone to fill in the gaps and he'd be pretty darn good. In San Antonio, he'd just make the team's weaknesses even worse . . .

[Dejounte]

timvp

Yeah, as for the speed I wasn't really paying attention on if he was racing past the other dudes (he likely was) but rather how he just seemed like a blur on my screen. Also, there might be an illusion with his feet shuffling really fast to make it look like he's road runner... I'm not sure. He just looks unnaturally fast for a big wing.

I get the concerns about the shooting and it may just be the gamble that teams have to live with. I haven't looked into Deni in a while but wasn't his shooting much improved in the latest tournament he played in?

On a side note, his father is a major Jordan fan and you can see the clear influence on some of the fadeaways that Deni pulls off.

Deni is whiny as hell and it's actually one of my concerns about him. His social media is full of women and other distractions and I'm torn on whether it's a Tim Duncan type attitude where he doesn't care about basketball outside of it or if he simply doesn't have his priorities straight and is looking for fame.

Not saying he isn't a hard worker, but I question what he will do if he does reach star level status.

[XDT76]

the talent level between #7 to #11 is pretty even. It's totally stupid to move DeRozan or Murray just to move up 4 spots in the draft. If the Spurs target a big or PF I could see Lyles, Gay or Poeltl moved. That should already be enough. No way you move Lonnie, he's more talented than pretty much anybody outside the top 3 and if you move Murray or DeRozan you better get something back.

Demar and 11 for 7 and a SnT Woods, and we use the 7 to swap with celtics on 14 and 24. lol One can dream.

[TD 21]

Murray or Walker on their own aren't getting the 7th pick.



Exactly. I just worry about Murray. From his abilities to him being a potential basket case.

The 6 players I’m interested in are Wiseman, Hayes, Toppin, Okongwu, Avdija, & Haliburton. All are gone in 95% of drafts I’ve seen by pick 10. Getting up to the 7th pick basically guarantees we’d get to pick between 2 of those 6 I mentioned.

Hayes/Haliburton, White, Johnson, DeRozan, Aldridge
or
White, Johnson, DeRozan, Toppin/Okongwu, Aldridge

At 7 and with Murray traded in this hypothetical, presuming the top 6 more or less plays out to projection, I'd zero in on Hayes and Haliburton. If the order of the top 6 remains (doubtful), I'd guess the Hawks snatch up one at 6, leaving the other for the taking.

This team desperately needs to up their playmaking and IQ in general.

[XDT76]

Updated tier list

Tier 1
Deni Avdija
Obi Toppin
Isaac Okoro

Tier 2
Jalen Smith
Aleksej Pokusevski
Aaron Nesmith
Tyrese Halliburton

Tier 3
Patrick Williams
Kira Lewis Jr

Tier 4
Isaiah Stewart
Precious Achiuwa

Tier 5
Tyler Bey
Robert Woodard II
Zeke Nnaji
Daniel Oturu
Xavier Tillman
Reggie Perry
Paul Reed

(Tier 4 isn't necessarily bad. I would still be happy if we drafted either guy)

(If we drafted any of the tier 5 guys with our #11 I'll be upset)


Hope we can get 1 of the top 3 tier with 11 and tier 5 with 41

[spurspl]

anyone (except keldon and white) should be tradeable for a 7th pick. Having 7th and 11th picks can significantly accelarate spurs rebuild. Plus if we smh can get kennard and/or christian wood(s&t) with this trade thats a fkin A+ move

[exstatic]

???

Song lyrics from long ago...

[Chinook]

Wouldn't be surprised to see Detroit targeting Bagley with 7. I'm one of those people who really liked Marvin during the draft, so I'd also look into trading 11 for him. That's neither here nor there though.

If Toppin were on the board, I'd be willing to trade Walker for 7 with no hesitation. Anyone else except maybe Wiseman, and I hold onto him. I don't agree that Walker is an awkward fit for the roster. Murray is. DJM shouldn't be the starting anything; he's not a good fit for the bench; he's not a good fit for the salary cap going forward. I'd definitely trade Murray for Wiseman, and there are other players I would be willing to do so as well. Walker has holes like his aggression and finishing, but as a strong two-guard who can run, shoot, rebound and penetrate, I don't it's easy to find a better analog in the draft.

If somehow the Spurs traded Murray for Toppin at 7, drafted Lewis or Nesmith at 11 and grabbed Tillman at 41, you'd be able to take a cruise ship up the new river flowing from my house.

White, Mills
Johnson, Lewis/Nesmith
DeRozan, Walker, Samanic
Toppin, Gay, Lyles
Aldridge, Poeltl, Tillman

That's an embarrassment of talent.

[Russ]

Explain this fit to me, tbh. I'm willing to try to change my mind on Deni-to-the-Spurs.

But a non-shooting combo forward who isn't elite on D, not really a playmaker and who would be best playing off of a superstar is just an odd fit in San Antonio, IMO. .

Okay, let's break this down.


not really a playmaker

Actually, playmaking is a strong suit. Even the video you linked in your profile of Avdija states "Projects as a good primary or secondary playmaker."

This guy, Avdija, passes the ball in a way reminiscent of Larry Bird and Pete Maravich. Just let your eyes do their job.


would be best playing off of a superstar is just an odd fit in San Antonio, IMO.

Two basic problems with this statement.

First, who cares if he would be an odd fit in SA? Are we at that point? Are we fine tuning? This team needs the most impactful player they can find.

(Which is another problem with the threshold premise of your Big Board and its uniqueness to the Spurs and their needs -- it's premature, it really doesn't make sense at this point.)

Secondly, "would be best playing off a superstar" just begs the question -- who wouldn't be? If you're saying he can't create, I just disagree (see above). Avdija is a versatile, instinctive basketball player. He's not a guy you plug in to a spot. If he went to the Spurs and was the player I think he could be, the question wouldn't be how does he fit with the Spurs, it would be how do these guys fit with him.

To take the point to a dangerous level (I admit), Larry Bird comes to mind. There was an old grizzled sports reporter in Boston who watched the Celtics being introduced pregame. He pointed out the shortcomings of each of the first four starters, how you couldn't win with them, then after Bird was finally announced, he said "Now, that's a great team." The Spurs need a guy like that, or a guy who might be like that.


Above average [speed] for an NBA three? Yeah, I can buy that if we're talking about straight-line speed.

"Straight-line speed?" Huh? This guy is herky-jerky as hell. He has a Euro-step that would make Ginobili blush. This is exactly the type of player that US defenders have a helluva time dealing with. Which brings us to the next point.


Sometimes he looks superhuman in some of his highlights -- but it turns out he's going against an Israeli league team that would struggle to beat American YMCA teams, tbh.

That's the same old trope that's trotted out against every foreign player until someone from his country "makes it." The moves Avdija makes, the passes he makes, have nothing to do with the level of competition. Remember how those Laker fans used to watch Ginobili's Euro highlights and laugh about how he'd never get to the basket like that in the NBA? He did.

Let's face it, we're basketball snobs. We don't like the new guy until proven otherwise.


Shooting-wise, I'm pretty low on him. His jumper is mostly arms, he dips the ball quite a bit before he shoots and his actual release angle varies by the day. He does use a little knee flex but it's unnatural and doesn't seem to generate any power. Add that to his 55% free throw shooting and it'd be really dangerous to draft him banking on him ever being above like a 32% three-point shooter.


Good point. That's the elephant in the room. Shooting. 55% from the line. Could be an Achilles heel, we'll just have to see.

But I disagree that his form is bad -- it looks pretty good to me, meaning that when he hits a three it looks like when a good shooter hits a three (regardless of the percentage he actually hits it at this point in his 19 year old life). Plenty of wings and guards who this forum loves have way worse shooting form than Avdija and shooting is a much bigger part of their appeal than it is with him. He shot .358 in 33 games from 3 last season in Tel Aviv, not bad for a 6'8" guy with his other skills. Let Chip do his work.


Again the "natural-born winner" stuff is iffy depending on what games you're talking about.

He was MVP of the Euro under 20 championships, not an Israeli event. In his interviews, he seems serious and studious about the game. He wants to be good.

To sum up, when I watch him, he passes the eye test. I'm still all in for Okongwu, but Avdija might be second.

But the main, bottom-line point is this -- thanks timvp for all you do for Spurs basketball fans.

[DAF86]

"Eurostep that would make Ginobili blush"? Are you considering the fact that you might be exagerating a bit? :lol

[BackHome]

His footstep speed is fine he has good handles and a high Ball IQ he is a team player and pretty much has it all. The only issue for me is his free throw shooting which is not good I wonder if he just needs glasses he should get his eyes tested because his numbers should be better.

To me he has about a 10% chance of being an All Star and about 60% chance of being a really good starting SF on a playoff team. What I like about him is that he is just a baller he is good at everything except free throws but he can definitely help create the “Beautiful Game”.

[pad300]

???

Snot nosed young punk... Link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl4c0lsaFog)

Seriously, this kid needs a nickname: Eskimo.

[Sugus]

The reasons I would consider Lonnie for #7 are:

1. To move up and get Okongwu. I don't think he slides past Washington, if he even makes it past Charlotte. Then I would want the Spurs to take Williams/Killian/Vassell/Halliburton etc at 11

2. Where does Lonnie fit if the Spurs keep White? They'll have White and Murray at the starting guards, and Keldon's play style translates well to a SF, or smallball 4 split with DeRozan who could still get extended.

I don't know if he works great off the bench when Pop out of the bubble forces time for Mills or in the worst case scenario, FORBES

Converting Walker into a defensive rim runner like Okongwu isn't the worst idea to me, you still have #11 to get wing or combo guard help.

And I think money matters as far as control years go. I remember the Spurs trading Hill and that trade was just as much about not being able to afford to pay Hill as it was getting Kawhi, that's how so many were able to call Hill being traded.

I like Lonnie, but I don't think Pop is all in and the longer you go with him just flashing here and there the lower his trade value gets.

You see, the problem I have with this suggestion of trading Lonnie to keep White, which you haven't been the only poster to put forward, is that it's a false dichotomy of having to choose between both players, when the Spurs aren't being forced into that decision. Lonnie fits perfectly fine as a SG-SF off the bench for the time being, and eventually fighting for minutes at SG with Dejounte (who I actually think is the worst fit of the bunch, since he doesn't excel at any one thing that isn't replaceable, besides rebounds, which a proper PF should cover). He can also get SF minutes when Keldon's off the court. I'd even go as far as saying that White, who's 26, is a worse fit due to timeline with the rest of the players than Lonnie would be, and he's already close to his ceiling. Selling high on him after his bubble performance, or next season, wouldn't be a bad move, tbh.

In the meantime, Lonnie is only 21. He's improved this season even if he isn't where we want him to be. He probably doesn't have that much value right now to other teams, and selling low on him before seeing what he can accomplish is foolish, especially for a rebuilding team like the Spurs who needs all the young players it can get. If the Spurs so desperately want a second or higher pick, they have plenty of vets on the roster who won't be on the team long-term and who are already at their peak value or actively declining from it, like Patty or Rudy. We'll see what happens... But I really don't see the Spurs trading Lonnie away as of right now.

[timvp]

Okay, let's break this down.

Good stuff, Russ. I want to be sold on Deni because he seems like a Spursy pick -- but I'm just not there on him.


Actually, playmaking is a strong suit. Even the video you linked in your profile of Avdija states "Projects as a good primary or secondary playmaker."Deni ran pick-and-rolls in FIBA action but that's about the extent of his playmaking history. If a team drafts him thinking he'll be Doncic or even Orlando Turkoglu, they are going to be disappointed, IMO. His playmaking ceiling is more like a Tobias Harris in that he will be ultra active and make the right passes when given the opportunity.


First, who cares if he would be an odd fit in SA? Are we at that point? Are we fine tuning? This team needs the most impactful player they can find.That's the same argument I've made and it's why I'm 100% okay drafting a player of any position. No player is good enough to factor in positional fit.

That said, as a tie-breaker for prospects on the same tier, I think it's fair to factor in current fit. And considering the Spurs are already shooting challenged and two of their three most accomplished shooters could be leaving, adding another non-shooting quasi-playmaker would be sub-optimal. Adding Deni to the current group would result in a lot of clogging. The Spurs could absorb another non-shooter but that player would have to be a center to replace Poeltl, a project who doesn't need minutes right away or a player who could work with Chip to become a shooter. Deni, conversely, is ready for minutes right now and with his long history of being a 55% free throw shooter despite getting great coaching for 5+ years, it's difficult to see a situation where either he or the Spurs will flourish.

I've said that if the Spurs think Deni is the best player on the board, they should go ahead and pick him. But after they do, then they need to tear down what they currently have so that there are at least lineups that make sense. Specifically, if you draft Deni you probably have to trade DeRozan and not re-sign Poeltl -- and probably see if there's a market for Murray. I'm not super high on Deni but he's going to be ready for minutes quickly and the Spurs will want to give him those minutes to see what it is that they have on their hands.


Secondly, "would be best playing off a superstar" just begs the question -- who wouldn't be?Fair enough but my point was I think Deni would be an especially great fit next to a superstar, particularly one who is a superstar scorer and playmaker. I mean, you can make the case that he's the best fit the Timberwolves with the first overall pick. Put him between Towns and Russell and he can fill in the blanks, while his weaknesses aren't a big deal.


If you're saying he can't create, I just disagree (see above). Avdija is a versatile, instinctive basketball player. He's not a guy you plug in to a spot. If he went to the Spurs and was the player I think he could be, the question wouldn't be how does he fit with the Spurs, it would be how do these guys fit with him.

To take the point to a dangerous level (I admit), Larry Bird comes to mind. There was an old grizzled sports reporter in Boston who watched the Celtics being introduced pregame. He pointed out the shortcomings of each of the first four starters, how you couldn't win with them, then after Bird was finally announced, he said "Now, that's a great team." The Spurs need a guy like that, or a guy who might be like that.

:lol

Again, if the Spurs see him as that guy (I don't, for the record, but it's possible I'm wrong), pick him. And then start reshaping your roster.


That's the same old trope that's trotted out against every foreign player until someone from his country "makes it." The moves Avdija makes, the passes he makes, have nothing to do with the level of competition.

Eh, that's not really fair. The Israeli league (and Israel itself) has had players make it. My issue with the Israeli league has nothing to do with the country. The issue is that it's a super unbalanced league. Maccabi, Deni's team, has won something like 55 of the 65 league titles. Last I looked, Maccabi and the Jerusalem team pay more in salary than the rest of the league combined. Maccabi has far and away the most talent on the league. They'd win games in the NBA. If you compare that team to all the other teams in the league outside of the Jerusalem team, it's a joke. On top of the salary difference, the Israeli league has some quirky rules like paying bonuses to teams based on how many minutes their Israeli players play, which results in the teams that didn't have a chance to begin with signing the cheapest possible Israeli players and then giving them big minutes to chase those bonuses.

The Deni MVP award that people point to was the MVP of that Israeli league. His team was so much better that they could play him big minutes and force feed him the ball and still easily win. Even with the force feeding, he still didn't really deserve the MVP but they gave it to him anyway -- probably to make him look better for the draft and because he's the league's most popular player. Understandable decision, tbh, but his performance in that league in general and the MVP specifically needs to taken with a few grains of salt.


In his interviews, he seems serious and studious about the game. He wants to be good.Yeah, I love the edge he plays with and that will help him in his transition to the NBA. He's not a player who is going to be too bashful to assert himself -- it'll be closer to the opposite. But, again, that's another reason why picking Deni would have to be step one of a complete rebuild. You can't pick him and then stash him in the G League or bury him at the end of the bench. He's going to need minutes ASAP.


To sum up, when I watch him, he passes the eye test. I'm still all in for Okongwu, but Avdija might be second.

But the main, bottom-line point is this -- thanks timvp for all you do for Spurs basketball fans.:tu

I think we're on the same page on Okongwu. At 11, you pick him and you don't have to worry about the center position for another decade at the earliest.

BTW, we need to fix your sig. That GIF is too awesome to be missing :lol

[SpurPadre]

I actually think he’ll be a good player for some team but I read somewhere that he opted out of this years draft

This article from yesterday still talks about him as if he were still in the draft: https://netswire.usatoday.com/2020/09/16/nets-2020-nba-mock-draft-radar-barcelona-wing-leandro-bolmaro/

[rankingtear]

Bolmaro still in the draft , but he made it known that he will spend at least 1 year in Europe. Perfect target for teams with multiple first rounders.

[timvp]

The more I watch of Bolmaro, the more I like him. He can't jump to save his life but the rest of his game is pretty impressive. You can't take him at 11 I don't think but at any point after 16 or so he's not a terrible pick, IMO. By the last few picks of the first round, he turns into a no-brainer.

[Dejounte]

On Okongwu:

Are we really worrying about the center position for the next decade as it stands (if we re-sign Poetl)? Poetl's not great, but he's not bad either. I don't think Okongwu will bring much more than Poetl offensively other than be a more mobile rim runner. That's my concern over Okongwu.

[mo7888]

I'm fan of Bolmaro as well. If he's staying over another year I'd be comfortable choosing him anywhere from the mid 20's down.

[timvp]

On Okongwu:

Are we really worrying about the center position for the next decade as it stands (if we re-sign Poetl)? Poetl's not great, but he's not bad either. I don't think Okongwu will bring much more than Poetl offensively other than be a more mobile rim runner. That's my concern over Okongwu.

I see Poeltl as a really good backup or a decent-ish starter. Okongwu pretty quickly with be a decent-ish starter with the upside of being a really good starter. That's a notable enough shift to warrant drafting him at 11, IMO.

[Dejounte]

"We’d like to add a veteran or two in free agency, but I don’t even know if that’s possible," Kerr told The Athletic's Anthony Slater when discussing the recent additions of Shaun Livingston and Leandro Barbosa to the front office. "We’ll see how everything shakes out. So it’s almost, you know, if we can’t do that, if we can’t add a Zaza Pachulia or David West in free agency, we’ve gotta be able to do that on the staff. So I think that’s a big part of why Shaun and LB are here, to provide some of that mentoring."

https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/steve-kerr-says-warriors-want-add-one-or-two-veterans-free-agency

Sounds like theyre keeping the pick.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/detnewsRodBeard/status/1296111173889335296?s=20

Please don't take Halliburton!

[offset formation]

Good stuff, Russ. I want to be sold on Deni because he seems like a Spursy pick -- but I'm just not there on him.

Deni ran pick-and-rolls in FIBA action but that's about the extent of his playmaking history. If a team drafts him thinking he'll be Doncic or even Orlando Turkoglu, they are going to be disappointed, IMO. His playmaking ceiling is more like a Tobias Harris in that he will be ultra active and make the right passes when given the opportunity.

That's the same argument I've made and it's why I'm 100% okay drafting a player of any position. No player is good enough to factor in positional fit.

That said, as a tie-breaker for prospects on the same tier, I think it's fair to factor in current fit. And considering the Spurs are already shooting challenged and two of their three most accomplished shooters could be leaving, adding another non-shooting quasi-playmaker would be sub-optimal. Adding Deni to the current group would result in a lot of clogging. The Spurs could absorb another non-shooter but that player would have to be a center to replace Poeltl, a project who doesn't need minutes right away or a player who could work with Chip to become a shooter. Deni, conversely, is ready for minutes right now and with his long history of being a 55% free throw shooter despite getting great coaching for 5+ years, it's difficult to see a situation where either he or the Spurs will flourish.

I've said that if the Spurs think Deni is the best player on the board, they should go ahead and pick him. But after they do, then they need to tear down what they currently have so that there are at least lineups that make sense. Specifically, if you draft Deni you probably have to trade DeRozan and not re-sign Poeltl -- and probably see if there's a market for Murray. I'm not super high on Deni but he's going to be ready for minutes quickly and the Spurs will want to give him those minutes to see what it is that they have on their hands.

Fair enough but my point was I think Deni would be an especially great fit next to a superstar, particularly one who is a superstar scorer and playmaker. I mean, you can make the case that he's the best fit the Timberwolves with the first overall pick. Put him between Towns and Russell and he can fill in the blanks, while his weaknesses aren't a big deal.



:lol

Again, if the Spurs see him as that guy (I don't, for the record, but it's possible I'm wrong), pick him. And then start reshaping your roster.



Eh, that's not really fair. The Israeli league (and Israel itself) has had players make it. My issue with the Israeli league has nothing to do with the country. The issue is that it's a super unbalanced league. Maccabi, Deni's team, has won something like 55 of the 65 league titles. Last I looked, Maccabi and the Jerusalem team pay more in salary than the rest of the league combined. Maccabi has far and away the most talent on the league. They'd win games in the NBA. If you compare that team to all the other teams in the league outside of the Jerusalem team, it's a joke. On top of the salary difference, the Israeli league has some quirky rules like paying bonuses to teams based on how many minutes their Israeli players play, which results in the teams that didn't have a chance to begin with signing the cheapest possible Israeli players and then giving them big minutes to chase those bonuses.

The Deni MVP award that people point to was the MVP of that Israeli league. His team was so much better that they could play him big minutes and force feed him the ball and still easily win. Even with the force feeding, he still didn't really deserve the MVP but they gave it to him anyway -- probably to make him look better for the draft and because he's the league's most popular player. Understandable decision, tbh, but his performance in that league in general and the MVP specifically needs to taken with a few grains of salt.

Yeah, I love the edge he plays with and that will help him in his transition to the NBA. He's not a player who is going to be too bashful to assert himself -- it'll be closer to the opposite. But, again, that's another reason why picking Deni would have to be step one of a complete rebuild. You can't pick him and then stash him in the G League or bury him at the end of the bench. He's going to need minutes ASAP.

:tu

I think we're on the same page on Okongwu. At 11, you pick him and you don't have to worry about the center position for another decade at the earliest.

BTW, we need to fix your sig. That GIF is too awesome to be missing :lol

Great stuff, gents.

[pad300]

The more I watch of Bolmaro, the more I like him. He can't jump to save his life but the rest of his game is pretty impressive. You can't take him at 11 I don't think but at any point after 16 or so he's not a terrible pick, IMO. By the last few picks of the first round, he turns into a no-brainer.

I'm more concerned about his bad shooting, rather than his jumping. If he had a jumper, I figure he'd be looking at a lottery spot...

[TDMVPDPOY]

when do teams get to workout players b4 the draft?

[Dejounte]

I see Poeltl as a really good backup or a decent-ish starter. Okongwu pretty quickly with be a decent-ish starter with the upside of being a really good starter. That's a notable enough shift to warrant drafting him at 11, IMO.

Define what a really good starter looks like from Okongwu. Like would he be a defensive anchor? What would his production look like to you? Bam Adebayo type production? I was going to throw Anthony Davis, but I'm not sure he would ever have the shooting touch.

[rankingtear]

I don't like Bam for Okongwu comparison , Bam is a freak athletically and IQ wise. Do it all , stat stuffing centers like cody and theis seems like the more realistic.

[Dejounte]

All this waiting is driving me crazy, hopefully stuff starts happening soon

[timvp]

All this waiting is driving me crazy, hopefully stuff starts happening soon

Hopefully this means we should start getting measurements soon. It'd be cool if the videos are made public but that's probably asking too much...


https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1306382493751357445

[ZeusWillJudge]

Again, if the Spurs see him as that guy (I don't, for the record, but it's possible I'm wrong), pick him. And then start reshaping your roster.

But, again, that's another reason why picking Deni would have to be step one of a complete rebuild.

I think we're on the same page on Okongwu. At 11, you pick him and you don't have to worry about the center position for another decade at the earliest.


People are mostly looking at this draft (for the Spurs) in a vacuum. Are the Spurs going to commit at least one more season to rebuilding for the long-haul, or are they looking for the quickest path back to a 50-win season? It makes all the difference in the world.

I don't like the idea of doing anything, picking anybody, with regards to how they fit with LMA. He's almost certain not to be here, and even if he is you're shaping a team around a guy on the downward slope. Every bit as much as with Avdija, if Okongwu is really a decade-worth at the C position, you might as well call that part of a complete rebuild and start shaping your roster. Personally, I don't think Avdija is "the guy". I think he's going to be a lot like Nicolas Batum. A very good player who does a lot of things that a team needs. But he's not going to be a go-to guy. I don't mind that at all with the 11 pick. It seems like a lot of Spurs fans think that 11 is some kind of a magically high pick. It's a good pick, and the expected outcome ought to be a good player. From all the recent jabber, there might be 2-3 players of that caliber dropping into the Spurs' reach.

I still like Saddiq Bey because he stands to be one of those solid, journeyman-class players who you need to support the go-to guy when you find him. For most of the college season, I really liked Jordan Nwora. His draft stock fell on one or two bad games, but I've been looking at all the reasons I liked him and I still like him. Find a way to trade down (to Philly, for instance) for two lower first round picks and come up with Bey and Nwora? The Spurs 3P shooting woes go away. And even though neither of those guys are defensive specialists, the team's defense still gets better. If the Spurs are trying to get back to 45-50 wins, that would go a long way.

[Dejounte]

^11th pick has netted some great players:

Klay Thompson
Bonzi Wells
Allan Houston
Myles Turner
Domantas Sabonis
Shai Alexander
Robert Horry
Reggie Miller

I guess the only go to guy here is Klay, Reggie, and Allan, and maybe potentially Shai

[ZeusWillJudge]

^11th pick has netted some great players:

Klay Thompson
Bonzi Wells
Allan Houston
Myles Turner
Domantas Sabonis
Shai Alexander
Robert Horry
Reggie Miller

I guess the only go to guy here is Klay, Reggie, and Allan, and maybe potentially Shai


Sure. Good players fall that low and lower. But if you look at the whole draft history, it's really stacked to the first 7 picks. Klay and Bonzi were both in draft classes that were VERY deep through about the first 12 picks. Even then, those guys only fell to 11 because teams took flyers on guys like fat-ass Robert Traylor and Jimmer Fredette. Bonzi at 11 isn't nearly as amazing as Dirk and Paul Pierce at 9 and 10.

My point was just about expected value. By the time you reach 11, snagging a solid, consistent player is a good outcome. Most of the unicorns are gone. The Spurs have been better than most at getting value from late positions, but not every class has even one Kawhi-class player. If they can grab a Nic Batum-type player, it won't be a bad outcome. It's just that lots of people believe that if the Spurs can get Kawhi with the 15th pick, they ought to be able to get something at least that good with 11.

[objective]

On Okongwu:

Are we really worrying about the center position for the next decade as it stands (if we re-sign Poetl)? Poetl's not great, but he's not bad either. I don't think Okongwu will bring much more than Poetl offensively other than be a more mobile rim runner. That's my concern over Okongwu.

I think he would be an upgrade on Poeltl offensively. Poeltl is not really a consistent vertical threat on the pick and roll. There was an early game this year that was a great example, where he just didn't roll hard or present himself for the pass and it resulted in more than one turnover for White and made White look bad. I remember posting about it in the game thread.

He's been better since but he leaves a lot of points on the table. He can set the screen but I think Okongwu could be better significantly. And ... Due to his youth, maybe Okongwu can become a better shooter than Poeltl. Maybe, maybe not. But Poeltl doesn't shoot jumpers and isn't the vertical threat I think Okongwu is.

Considering the outlook on scoring in the future, with Murray's limitations and Aldridge/DeRozan probably either on their way out or going into decline, those 3-6 points that Okongwu might be generating over Poeltl could be needed

[objective]

Explain this fit to me, tbh. I'm willing to try to change my mind on Deni-to-the-Spurs.

But a non-shooting combo forward who isn't elite on D, not really a playmaker and who would be best playing off of a superstar is just an odd fit in San Antonio, IMO.

I wouldn't mind the pick because Deni is a pretty good prospect in a vacuum but if you pick him, the fit is so weird you probably have to start tearing the whole thing down to accommodate.


To put it simply: his speed with the ball is special. It's usually only little guards who are that quick, not from a big wing like Deni. That's the number 1 attribute for me that stood out.

His shooting form doesn't have any major issues. I think he'll be a better shooter than he's been credited for.

He's a 3 level scorer. Can post up, crafty layins, has hops, floater game looks like you're watching a guard. Just has many ways to score where I could envision him to be a go-to guy at the end of games.

Basically, he's Poku with less concerns on how he'll fit on defense (and also the other obvious differences). He can guard his position, he's strong enough not to be a pushover.

He also oozes "natural-born winner". The intangibles gained from his experience in winning high pressure games will prove invaluable.

I'll go into more detail later.

I like Deni, though I don't think he's great. His free throw shooting was better in the bubble.

I think at his size he adds versatility to the roster, improves it, and that's good for me.

I will add though ...

Deni might be the only guy whose contract could pay for itself with sponsorships and the like.

As the number one hyped star of a country, he could pull in a lot of money for whoever drafts him. That team might instantly become 'Israel's Team' and get all the benefits one might expect like Yao and China and like Tony and France.

And he's much more hyped and beloved than Caspi was, he's the man.

Maybe front offices don't take that into consideration, but the business side will certainly think about it.

[Sugus]

I think he would be an upgrade on Poeltl offensively. Poeltl is not really a consistent vertical threat on the pick and roll. There was an early game this year that was a great example, where he just didn't roll hard or present himself for the pass and it resulted in more than one turnover for White and made White look bad. I remember posting about it in the game thread.

He's been better since but he leaves a lot of points on the table. He can set the screen but I think Okongwu could be better significantly. And ... Due to his youth, maybe Okongwu can become a better shooter than Poeltl. Maybe, maybe not. But Poeltl doesn't shoot jumpers and isn't the vertical threat I think Okongwu is.

Considering the outlook on scoring in the future, with Murray's limitations and Aldridge/DeRozan probably either on their way out or going into decline, those 3-6 points that Okongwu might be generating over Poeltl could be needed

For sure would be an upgrade. I don't think you have to be timid about it... Poeltl is simply not a vertical spacer. He's not a lob threat in the slightest - to the point where, during the bubble, I was kind of wondering if there's something with his knees that he'd rather avoid jumping to worsen. He's not a strong finisher either, neither as a roll man off a PnR or on the rare occasions he gets the ball in the post. No post game, no fakes, no hook shot, no midrange catch-and-shoot nor pullup, obviously no 3 - his "offensive arsenal" is literally nothing more than a soft floater on occasion, and the easy spoon-fed-by-PG points that literally any bench or starting C in the league could get. At no point has Jakob looked like a sure starter or came close to being a player who can "hold down the C position" for any number of years, tbh.

A team just can't be getting 0 offensive production from one of their players in this modern age, no matter the position. I'm itching for the Spurs to draft a big man, either a 4 but preferrably a 5, just so they don't delude themselves into giving Jakob a deal akin in proportion to what they gave DJ. That was a stupid move, and putting a lot of money on Jakob would be stupid as well. The sooner the FO realizes Jakob is a glorified bench C, the better, tbh. I don't care whether it's Okongwu, or Okoro, or Smith or Precious or even Wiseman by trading up. Jakob is not a starter on a championship caliber team - maybe not even a starter on a high seeded playoff team, unless he's very well surrounded, imo.

[objective]

You see, the problem I have with this suggestion of trading Lonnie to keep White, which you haven't been the only poster to put forward, is that it's a false dichotomy of having to choose between both players, when the Spurs aren't being forced into that decision. Lonnie fits perfectly fine as a SG-SF off the bench for the time being, and eventually fighting for minutes at SG with Dejounte (who I actually think is the worst fit of the bunch, since he doesn't excel at any one thing that isn't replaceable, besides rebounds, which a proper PF should cover). He can also get SF minutes when Keldon's off the court. I'd even go as far as saying that White, who's 26, is a worse fit due to timeline with the rest of the players than Lonnie would be, and he's already close to his ceiling. Selling high on him after his bubble performance, or next season, wouldn't be a bad move, tbh.

In the meantime, Lonnie is only 21. He's improved this season even if he isn't where we want him to be. He probably doesn't have that much value right now to other teams, and selling low on him before seeing what he can accomplish is foolish, especially for a rebuilding team like the Spurs who needs all the young players it can get. If the Spurs so desperately want a second or higher pick, they have plenty of vets on the roster who won't be on the team long-term and who are already at their peak value or actively declining from it, like Patty or Rudy. We'll see what happens... But I really don't see the Spurs trading Lonnie away as of right now.

I wouldn't say I'm thinking that the Spurs have to make a choice between the current young guys.

But I see an opportunity to improve the whole roster, and typically you have to give something to get something. The reported speculation listed the Pistons looking to first or second year players, and Lonnie fits the bill. And the two highest rated centers, but especially Okongwu, are expected to be off the board by 11.

If I had to choose between Lonnie and Okongwu, I might go Okongwu to shift roster resources. But I definitely wouldn't add #11, I would only consider straight up.

[Sugus]

I wouldn't say I'm thinking that the Spurs have to make a choice between the current young guys.

But I see an opportunity to improve the whole roster, and typically you have to give something to get something. The reported speculation listed the Pistons looking to first or second year players, and Lonnie fits the bill. And the two highest rated centers, but especially Okongwu, are expected to be off the board by 11.

If I had to choose between Lonnie and Okongwu, I might go Okongwu to shift roster resources. But I definitely wouldn't add #11, I would only consider straight up.

I see your point. Let's raise a counter-point.

Are the Spurs so desperate for another mid-lottery pick in a weak draft, that they'd be willing to sell low on their previously highest draft pick since Duncan? Lonnie is probably at his lowest or close to lowest value he'll ever be (provided he at least improves a bit over the next couple years, I'm not even talking about a jump into stardom or close to it). His bubble outing was unimpressive - he didn't shoot all that well, his misses stuck out like a sore thumb, he had some glaring holes in his offensive and defensive game. I'm confident they can be fixed - but are the Pistons? They might not even think Lonnie alone for #7 is fair, and try to extort further value from the Spurs under this premise that Lonnie isn't all that much - and the Spurs don't have a lot of leverage to argue otherwise. That's the problem for a lot of first and second-year players: they're worth more to the team that drafted them, than to the open market.

Meanwhile, let's assume the Spurs ARE that desperate for another pick. They can trade any one of LMA, Rudy, or a sign-and-trade with DeMar to net themselves a second FRP, then trade both of those to move up or just draft two players. If they want to pick above their current pick, they can package #11 and a lesser asset, and go get their Okongwu, without having to sacrifice Lonnie for it. They can even move up like so, and then deal a vet for a second, probably 25-30 range, FRP from a team that wants to win now. I think Rudy alone could net that from a contender.

So, in a vacuum, Okongwu > Lonnie might make sense (even though I don't agree personally). I just don't see the Spurs putting themselves in that position, or being so desperate for any prospect in this draft so as to sacrifice a player they've put major stock in, like Lonnie is. Of course, your guess is as good as mine, and we'll see on draft night, but I personally wouldn't like that trade at all... Especially because it sends Lonnie to Detroit. He doesn't deserve that, man...

[pad300]

...

Deni might be the only guy whose contract could pay for itself with sponsorships and the like.

As the number one hyped star of a country, he could pull in a lot of money for whoever drafts him. That team might instantly become 'Israel's Team' and get all the benefits one might expect like Yao and China and like Tony and France.

And he's much more hyped and beloved than Caspi was, he's the man.

Maybe front offices don't take that into consideration, but the business side will certainly think about it.

Not a chance dude, Israel is tiny - like 10 million people...

[Dejounte]

For sure would be an upgrade. I don't think you have to be timid about it... Poeltl is simply not a vertical spacer. He's not a lob threat in the slightest - to the point where, during the bubble, I was kind of wondering if there's something with his knees that he'd rather avoid jumping to worsen. He's not a strong finisher either, neither as a roll man off a PnR or on the rare occasions he gets the ball in the post. No post game, no fakes, no hook shot, no midrange catch-and-shoot nor pullup, obviously no 3 - his "offensive arsenal" is literally nothing more than a soft floater on occasion, and the easy spoon-fed-by-PG points that literally any bench or starting C in the league could get. At no point has Jakob looked like a sure starter or came close to being a player who can "hold down the C position" for any number of years, tbh.

A team just can't be getting 0 offensive production from one of their players in this modern age, no matter the position. I'm itching for the Spurs to draft a big man, either a 4 but preferrably a 5, just so they don't delude themselves into giving Jakob a deal akin in proportion to what they gave DJ. That was a stupid move, and putting a lot of money on Jakob would be stupid as well. The sooner the FO realizes Jakob is a glorified bench C, the better, tbh. I don't care whether it's Okongwu, or Okoro, or Smith or Precious or even Wiseman by trading up. Jakob is not a starter on a championship caliber team - maybe not even a starter on a high seeded playoff team, unless he's very well surrounded, imo.

Not saying I agree or disagree... But I do think there's a strong chance you're going to be disappointed by the Spurs likely giving Jakob an extension this offseason. To me, all indications point to them thinking very high of Jakob and in his development. I think they have invested so much in him that they're going to double down on it. And would that be surprising? The Spurs org. doubles down on almost everything that they put in time into. I do honestly feel they view him as a long term Spur, along with Eubanks (for better or for worse).

[exstatic]

^11th pick has netted some great players:

Klay Thompson
Bonzi Wells
Allan Houston
Myles Turner
Domantas Sabonis
Shai Alexander
Robert Horry
Reggie Miller

I guess the only go to guy here is Klay, Reggie, and Allan, and maybe potentially Shai

Wasn’t Paul Pierce also an 11th pick?

[Sugus]

Not saying I agree or disagree... But I do think there's a strong chance you're going to be disappointed by the Spurs likely giving Jakob an extension this offseason. To me, all indications point to them thinking very high of Jakob and in his development. I think they have invested so much in him that they're going to double down on it. And would that be surprising? The Spurs org. doubles down on almost everything that they put in time into. I do honestly feel they view him as a long term Spur, along with Eubanks (for better or for worse).

Oh, don't get me wrong - I wouldn't mind Jakob being resigned at all, in fact I'd like that. All I'm saying is, he is merely a stopgap - not good enough offensively to contribute as a starter, but his defense can keep him there for the time being. Eventually, the Spurs will have to either draft, or sign a FA that will actually produce from the C position. Poeltl is especially good to resign, in fact, since he's bound to be gotten for cheap - he's an archetype that's no longer in high demand, in a very weak year to be a FA. Getting him signed long-term for pennies on the dollar is a W for the Spurs in their current structure, but if they ever get out of this rebuild and into "spooky" or nigh-contender territory again, Jakob either has to ride on the bench, or get the hell out. And considering his interviews, I have a feeling it'll be the latter before the former.

Another reason he'll 100% be resigned by the Spurs is that they don't want to be looked at as having lost the Kawhi trade. Letting him walk in FA will be seen badly among the league. I'm not mad at that.... But I certainly would like the Spurs to draft a center either in this draft, or the next one, tbh.

[Dejounte]

I say if he gets paid 10 mil or less per year = yeah, he's a stop gap

But if it's more, or especially near DJ salary territory = then it indicates they're committed to him being the future at starting center. That's simply too much money tied to a backup center if it happens

[talkspurs]

I say if he gets paid 10 mil or less per year = yeah, he's a stop gap

But if it's more, or especially near DJ salary territory = then it indicates they're committed to him being the future at starting center. That's simply too much money tied to a backup center if it happens

I think anything more then MLE would be more then a backupbig. I actually think anything more then 5 mil would be to much for a backup big.

[timvp]

I say if he gets paid 10 mil or less per year = yeah, he's a stop gap

But if it's more, or especially near DJ salary territory = then it indicates they're committed to him being the future at starting center. That's simply too much money tied to a backup center if it happens

Giving Poeltl more than about $6 million per year would be pretty dumb, tbh. Giving him Murray money would be criminally insane.

[rankingtear]

Giving Poeltl more than about $6 million per year would be pretty dumb, tbh. Giving him Murray money would be criminally insane.

Agree, poeltl can't even play in closing lineups in the bubble. The value of centers decreases year by year, there's gonna be a center worth 10 mil now that you can get for 4-5mil in the next few free agencies.

[XDT76]

Agree, poeltl can't even play in closing lineups in the bubble. The value of centers decreases year by year, there's gonna be a center worth 10 mil now that you can get for 4-5mil in the next few free agencies.

I would really like to see whether the Spurs could get Christian Woods to fill the big position, rather than just extend Poeltl with a huge amount.

[Sugus]

Giving Poeltl more than about $6 million per year would be pretty dumb, tbh. Giving him Murray money would be criminally insane.

Exactly. He's going to command stop-gap level money, whether the Spurs see him as a future piece or interim solution. The team doesn't have to move on from him this season by drafting a C necessarily, but they shouldn't discard it as an option either, especially if it manifests as a center BPA.

[R. DeMurre]

Sure. Good players fall that low and lower. But if you look at the whole draft history, it's really stacked to the first 7 picks. Klay and Bonzi were both in draft classes that were VERY deep through about the first 12 picks. Even then, those guys only fell to 11 because teams took flyers on guys like fat-ass Robert Traylor and Jimmer Fredette. Bonzi at 11 isn't nearly as amazing as Dirk and Paul Pierce at 9 and 10.

My point was just about expected value. By the time you reach 11, snagging a solid, consistent player is a good outcome. Most of the unicorns are gone. The Spurs have been better than most at getting value from late positions, but not every class has even one Kawhi-class player. If they can grab a Nic Batum-type player, it won't be a bad outcome. It's just that lots of people believe that if the Spurs can get Kawhi with the 15th pick, they ought to be able to get something at least that good with 11.

Peak Batum was about 15/6/6 and decent D. I'd be very happy with that.

[RC_Drunkford]

I wouldn't say I'm thinking that the Spurs have to make a choice between the current young guys.

But I see an opportunity to improve the whole roster, and typically you have to give something to get something. The reported speculation listed the Pistons looking to first or second year players, and Lonnie fits the bill. And the two highest rated centers, but especially Okongwu, are expected to be off the board by 11.

If I had to choose between Lonnie and Okongwu, I might go Okongwu to shift roster resources. But I definitely wouldn't add #11, I would only consider straight up.

There's no fuckin way you trade Lonnie Walker. Kid got star potential, he'd be a top 5 pick in this draft

[talkspurs]

I would really like to see whether the Spurs could get Christian Woods to fill the big position, rather than just extend Poeltl with a huge amount.

I wish people would stop bringing him up he is going to be paid by detroit and they are hoping they have the money to pay him but they could pa more then us as all we have is MLE. Someone on their team would be Thon Maker. He has alot of what we are looking for just hasnt come onto the scene yet. You cant wait for players to break out and then try and sign them you have to try and get them before they break out.

[exstatic]

I wish people would stop bringing him up he is going to be paid by detroit and they are hoping they have the money to pay him but they could pa more then us as all we have is MLE. Someone on their team would be Thon Maker. He has alot of what we are looking for just hasnt come onto the scene yet. You cant wait for players to break out and then try and sign them you have to try and get them before they break out.

Maker’s a bust. He’s been in the league for four years, and if there were some amazing talent well to be tapped, it would have been, by now. Just another athlete/youtuber trying to become a basketball player.

[ZeusWillJudge]

Peak Batum was about 15/6/6 and decent D. I'd be very happy with that.


I would take it, too. And he could be that good.

But that's not what we were talking about. Do you build a roster around Batum, or a very similar player? The short answer is "no". (And nobody did that with Batum, for all of his positives.) The point is, Avdija isn't "the guy". He would be a damn good building block - but he's not going to fall as low as 11 anyway. If he did somehow, he was be a no-brainer pick for the Spurs.

[Dejounte]

Halliburton is more attainable if we're trading up since he's likely to be there around 5-10.

Just trade up to get Halliburton while somehow keeping the 11th or getting a trade partner for another 1st round pick in the middle of the 1st round. With that second 1st, get Jalen Smith.

The boost to the overall team IQ would be insane.

Halliburton/ White/ Q
DeMar/ Lonnie
Keldon/ MLE
Smith/ Lyles/ Samanic
Aldridge/ Poetl/ Eubanks

4th seed in the West, easily.

And if we're a lottery team again next year, use a lottery pick on either a wing or a center.

[talkspurs]

Maker’s a bust. He’s been in the league for four years, and if there were some amazing talent well to be tapped, it would have been, by now. Just another athlete/youtuber trying to become a basketball player.

Woods bounced around as well. Woods was on his 5th team Maker has only been on 2. Both have player 4 years in the NBA. It sometimes takes finding the right spot to finally start playing well. You will get some jackie butler but you also have to look at some of these people tht are out there. we need more bigs and he is a mobile big that cam shoot the 3 and he should be cheap to bring in.

[R. DeMurre]

I would take it, too. And he could be that good.

But that's not what we were talking about. Do you build a roster around Batum, or a very similar player? The short answer is "no". (And nobody did that with Batum, for all of his positives.) The point is, Avdija isn't "the guy". He would be a damn good building block - but he's not going to fall as low as 11 anyway. If he did somehow, he was be a no-brainer pick for the Spurs.

Oh, I wasn't advocating for Avdija-- just agreeing with you on reasonable expectations for a #11.

[Ocotillo]

Maker’s a bust. He’s been in the league for four years, and if there were some amazing talent well to be tapped, it would have been, by now. Just another athlete/youtuber trying to become a basketball player. Metu with some playing time.

[offset formation]

I wouldn't say I'm thinking that the Spurs have to make a choice between the current young guys.

But I see an opportunity to improve the whole roster, and typically you have to give something to get something. The reported speculation listed the Pistons looking to first or second year players, and Lonnie fits the bill. And the two highest rated centers, but especially Okongwu, are expected to be off the board by 11.

If I had to choose between Lonnie and Okongwu, I might go Okongwu to shift roster resources. But I definitely wouldn't add #11, I would only consider straight up.

You can make that call a year from now too.

[offset formation]

Halliburton is more attainable if we're trading up since he's likely to be there around 5-10.

Just trade up to get Halliburton while somehow keeping the 11th or getting a trade partner for another 1st round pick in the middle of the 1st round. With that second 1st, get Jalen Smith.

The boost to the overall team IQ would be insane.

Halliburton/ White/ Q
DeMar/ Lonnie
Keldon/ MLE
Smith/ Lyles/ Samanic
Aldridge/ Poetl/ Eubanks

4th seed in the West, easily.

And if we're a lottery team again next year, use a lottery pick on either a wing or a center.

I think Poeltl leaves if he gets a better offer because he clearly thinks himself starter material

[exstatic]

I think Poeltl leaves if he gets a better offer because he clearly thinks himself starter material

It’s actually the Spurs decision to keep him or not, if he gets an offer. He’s restricted.

[offset formation]

It’s actually the Spurs decision to keep him or not, if he gets an offer. He’s restricted.

I just meant that he didn't really impress, imo, in the Bubble and thus given the already tight cap situation the Spurs are in this summer, much of anything north of what he's making now ought to be sufficient for PATFO to let him walk. To me, you let him walk and go show out if he can elsewhere

[Dejounte]

https://instagram.com/stories/the.isaiahstewart/2401987826058405835?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=1ivltglsyzlw6

Isaiah Stewart greeting DJ and using a black heart. Hmm....
ace3g if you have time only, please upload otherwise thanks for all the work you do :)

[spurspl]

https://instagram.com/stories/the.isaiahstewart/2401987826058405835?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=1ivltglsyzlw6

Isaiah Stewart greeting DJ and using a black heart. Hmm....
ace3g (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=2345) if you have time only, please upload otherwise thanks for all the work you do :)

hope pop aint see this, stewart is not worth 11th pick

[look_at_g_shred]

https://instagram.com/stories/the.isaiahstewart/2401987826058405835?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=1ivltglsyzlw6

Isaiah Stewart greeting DJ and using a black heart. Hmm....
ace3g (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=2345) if you have time only, please upload otherwise thanks for all the work you do :)
Dejounte went to the same college right? I see Keldon also follows. Could be nothing.

[Dejounte]

CFdi51UAYHG

90s fashion is underrated

mo7888

[Dejounte]

https://www.si.com/.amp/nba/2020/09/22/2020-nba-draft-combine-what-you-need-to-know?__twitter_impression=true

Draft combine information!
Sugus timvp objective ace3g DAF86 R. DeMurre BackHome mo7888 Chinook exstatic ZeusWillJudge

Trying to list out all the Spurs fans who have been following the draft process lol

[ZeusWillJudge]

Thanks for posting. Finally some info about what the virtual combine will look like, and when. :tu

The interviews are interesting, but the workouts... voluntary, and no one way of doing them, except they will be one player, one coach. And the video the teams get to see might be pre-recorded. I wonder if they will have the opportunity to just not show the video to any teams if the player performs badly?


Edit: Also, 30-minute video chats instead of in-person interviews. That's not surprising. But teams will only be able to schedule with 20 players, and players will only be able to schedule with 13 teams. It should be a lot easier for the teams to keep quiet who they are interviewing, unless the players/agents leak it. I wonder if there will be rules about that part, too? Sounds like there will be some chess being played.

[Sugus]

Thanks for the info Dejounte, that was a good read.

I'm really skeptical of the videos/workout aspect of this. Which players would be dumb enough to actually live-stream their workouts, when you can pre-record whichever workouts you're best at doing, and have unlimited tries until you get one that your agent is satisfied with? The article doesn't mention anything about being allowed to edit said videos or not, so I'll assume they can at least be cut in parts. That's wack. I can see a lot of teams not doing their due diligence and falling in love with a certain prospect just because they had selective workout videos sent to them. I hope the Spurs don't fall into that trap, but it's a weird year, anything could happen.

It's also interesting how the article notes that players don't have to send their workout videos to every single team, but rather can choose the ones who'll be in the "likely drafting range" of said player. I can see situations like Keldon's last year, where teams pass on a certain player because he didn't work out for the team (or in this case, a lack of film and workout videos), and the player slips too far down. Sucks that we don't have a second FRP (for now at least), because this is definitely one of the drafts to be taking multiple shots at rotation-level players in the mid to late first round.

[mo7888]

https://www.si.com/.amp/nba/2020/09/22/2020-nba-draft-combine-what-you-need-to-know?__twitter_impression=true

Draft combine information!
Sugus timvp objective ace3g DAF86 R. DeMurre BackHome mo7888 Chinook exstatic ZeusWillJudge

Trying to list out all the Spurs fans who have been following the draft process lol

Thanks for posting this... :bobo

[ZeusWillJudge]

https://www.si.com/.amp/nba/2020/09/22/2020-nba-draft-combine-what-you-need-to-know?__twitter_impression=true

Draft combine information!
Sugus (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=54941) timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) objective (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=4663) ace3g (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=2345) DAF86 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11102) R. DeMurre (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=14577) BackHome (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=16032) mo7888 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=43104) Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) exstatic (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20) ZeusWillJudge (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=54031)

Trying to list out all the Spurs fans who have been following the draft process lol


I also just saw that non-Disney teams started having voluntary workouts. I wonder if they have the same kind of bubble constraints on those? The whole thing is just very strange.

[BackHome]

Yeah crazy times we live in but the teams that put in the work pre COVID are the teams that should do much better with their selections.

[rankingtear]

I've read that Cavs also are willing to trade their pick , wow nobody really wants to pick in the top 10. Warriors, Hawks, Cavs, Pistons and Suns have all been reported to be willing to trade back or out.


"They don't want that (No.5 overall) draft pick," he told SI.com. "I don't know that for certainty -- but I've spoken to enough people over there that I know they don't really want to bring in another young unknown.

"I strongly believe they will end up trading it."

[Sugus]

I've read that Cavs also are willing to trade their pick , wow nobody really wants to pick in the top 10. Warriors, Hawks, Cavs, Pistons and Suns have all been reported to be willing to trade back or out.

Excellent news. This is a buyer's market. If many teams are looking to trade off their picks for known quantity players (and the Spurs don't sit on their asses like they're used to doing in regards to trading), they could acquire high picks at abnormally low prices. The Cavs wouldn't have a need for someone like Dejounte, but other similar top-10 teams might. Hope the new GM we got is open to this idea...

[Chinook]

Issue is, I don't think Cleveland wants vets, and of all teams in the league, they'd probably be the least interested in Murray.

[FutureMan]

Issue is, I don't think Cleveland wants vets, and of all teams in the league, they'd probably be the least interested in Murray.

Didn’t Cleveland say they are going to make a run at the playoffs next year? Not sure how they do that without vets.

Maybe a trade centered around DeRozan (sign+trade) to get Cleveland’s pick is the better way to go.

[spurspl]

I've read that Cavs also are willing to trade their pick , wow nobody really wants to pick in the top 10. Warriors, Hawks, Cavs, Pistons and Suns have all been reported to be willing to trade back or out.

if thats true spurs must pull the trigger and make some moves. Just hope that pop and the rest finally noticed that we are not and we wont be a contender with recent roster...theres a chance for them to fix all this dumb trades they have made.

[BackHome]

Yeah do what is necessary I don’t care if we do a trade and we have to take a few feet back in order to be a better team in 2022. So try and move DEROZZ, Rudy, LMA, and Murray and I aiming for picks in 2020 or 2021 it doesn’t matter to me.

[TD 21]

Actually, the Cavaliers might have interest in Murray. Sexton-Garland would have to become Lillard-McCollum caliber offensively to (somewhat) alleviate the fact that they're going to be defensive liabilities.

If none of the consensus top 3 slide to 5, Murray and 11 for Exum and 5 could be an option.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1197929409044504576/nKXnm0aN_normal.jpg
Shams Charania ShamsCharania
(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) 25m (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1310371687205089280)
2020 NBA Draft Combine participants list — LaMelo Ball will participate; projected top selections Anthony Edwards, James Wiseman and Obi Toppin are not:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ei9gGmjXkAIb1x2?format=jpg&name=large

[Dejounte]

Sucks we won't get Toppin's measurements.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1197929409044504576/nKXnm0aN_normal.jpg
Shams Charania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)Sham (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17672)sCharania
25m (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1310371687205089280)
2020 NBA Draft Combine participants list — LaMelo Ball will participate; projected top selections Anthony Edwards, James Wiseman and Obi Toppin are not:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ei9gGmjXkAIb1x2?format=jpg&name=large

Wow, LaMelo participating... Is it possible he has grown, put on muscle? Can’t imagine he’s going there to showcase himself in shooting drills.

[objective]

Non-participants

-James Wiseman
-Anthony Edwards
-Onyeka Okongwu
-Saddiq Bey
-Aleksej Pokusevski
-Aaron Nesmith
-Tyrese Maxey
-Leandro Bolmaro
-Obi Toppin
-Devin Vassell
-Patrick Williams
-Cole Anthony

[Dejounte]

Non-participants

-James Wiseman
-Anthony Edwards
-Onyeka Okongwu
-Saddiq Bey
-Aleksej Pokusevski
-Aaron Nesmith
-Tyrese Maxey
-Leandro Bolmaro
-Obi Toppin
-Devin Vassell
-Patrick Williams
-Cole Anthony

Oh WTF. Damn, didn't realize those guys were missing too. Poku will remain a mystery all the way up until draft night. Fuck you, Poku

I wanted to see Nesmith's measurements too. Damn

Edit #3 No Vassell or Pat either?!?! This is bullshit.

[spurspl]

daamn almost every guy that should be considered by spurs at 11th is absent...

[objective]

Oh WTF. Damn, didn't realize those guys were missing too. Poku will remain a mystery all the way up until draft night. Fuck you, Poku

I wanted to see Nesmith's measurements too. Damn

Edit #3 No Vassell or Pat either?!?! This is bullshit.

Yeah, strange that Poku came to the states for workouts, but not for the combine.

Maybe bad medicals? Or a promise?

All a mystery.

Saben Lee and Malik Fitts among others didn't make the cut of the final 60 to gets invites unforunately.

[BackHome]

I wonder how many of the above have promises from teams?

[objective]

Would have really liked to see the current measurements for Wiseman, Okongwu and Williams.

Also interested in Bolmaro's vertical numbers for fun

[Sugus]

Wow, LaMelo participating... Is it possible he has grown, put on muscle? Can’t imagine he’s going there to showcase himself in shooting drills.

Actually, I think that might be exactly why he signed up for the combine. Since teams are allowed to pre-record the footage they're sending to teams, I can absolutely see Klutch hyper-producing a video showcasing Lamelo's "perfectly fine" shooting and putting up clips where he's hardly missing. This draft will absolutely expose teams that don't do their due dilligence... We'll see how the Spurs fare.

[talkspurs]

Could Wiseman not doing the combine make him drop? He did not play much in college and has already fallen some. I would like for him to fall to 11th. He is a mystery and may not be as good as hopped but I would still take him at 11. I am wondering if Bey got a promise from someone. He is who I want the Spurs to draft if Wiseman is not there.

[R. DeMurre]

Hard to imagine what a madhouse the off season will be-- the finals will end before mid October, and between then and January, we'll have the draft, free agency, some sort of "summer league", and pre-season before the new season kicks off, presumably not too long after New Year's. What a logistical nightmare this must be for the NBA to try and figure out. Add to that concerns about a second Covid wave and teams trying to manage their own arenas... and if teams are flying & traveling regularly, there's little chance of keeping cases contained like they have in the bubble. What a huge challenge.

[objective]

Non-participants

-James Wiseman
-Anthony Edwards
-Onyeka Okongwu
-Saddiq Bey
-Aleksej Pokusevski
-Aaron Nesmith
-Tyrese Maxey
-Leandro Bolmaro
-Obi Toppin
-Devin Vassell
-Patrick Williams
-Cole Anthony

Poku and Patrick Williams are represented by Wasserman. That agency's other players this draft are Payton Pritchard, Saben Lee, Giorgios Kalaitzakis, Rokas Jokubaitis, Borisa Simanic, Tres Tinkle, Austin Wiley. Among their players from 2019 are De'Andre Hunter who while seemingly listed as being a combine participant on NBA.com doesn't appear in any of the measurements or drills. Also repped Nickeil Alexander-Walker and Luka Samanic.

Okongwu, Wiseman, Saddiq Bey, Cole Anthony, and Aaron Nesmith are all repped by Excel. So maybe they'll do a group thing or just an another agency power move. Their other clients are Elijah Hughes, Nathan Knight, Nick Richards are combine participants.

[objective]

Anthony Edwards and Tyrese Maxey are repped by Klutch, and the only Klutch clients I could find among one top 100 big board

Toppin and Vassell are CAA, but other CAA clients that are participating are Halliburton, Flynn, Mason Jones, Josh Green, Dotson etc

[PhantomDashCam]

https://twitter.com/JeremyWoo/status/1310376829258268673?s=20

Jeremy from SI claims LaMelo to participate in media session and team interviews for combine, unclear on other activities - but most likely not.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/BryanKalbrosky/status/1310654750141149190?s=19

[PhantomDashCam]

I would expect Tyrell Terry and Desmond Bane to nail the combine intangibles - the interviews specifically, exactly the kind of thing the Spurs would be into. While 11 might seem high for either guy (especially Bane), can’t help but feel in today’s NBA, to have such an elite skill ie. shooting - mixed with high I.Q and strong work ethic can only lead to a successful pro career. I honestly would love to have either guy and think Bane’s versatility on Defense would mesh well with the current roster.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I would expect Tyrell Terry and Desmond Bane to nail the combine intangibles - the interviews specifically, exactly the kind of thing the Spurs would be into. While 11 might seem high for either guy (especially Bane), can’t help but feel in today’s NBA, to have such an elite skill ie. shooting - mixed with high I.Q and strong work ethic can only lead to a successful pro career. I honestly would love to have either guy and think Bane’s versatility on Defense would mesh well with the current roster.


I like Desmond Bane. Not at 11, but I like him. But - I would really like to see combine numbers on him. Stepien has some metrics that don't even make sense. He's got a negative wingspan (wingspan less than height), but his standing reach is actually pretty normal. He's got a poor no-step vert, but a really good max vert. And his sprint time is poor, but his shuttle run is so fast I can't believe it's right.

He's strong as hell, built like a tank, and can stroke 3's. He put up really good numbers against a strong schedule. I think he could be a pretty good 3 and D player, and he's one of the guys that make me wish the Spurs had an extra late-first pick. The combine could really help his draft stock. If that shuttle run time is for real, and he measures as one of those short-necked guys who's effective height is better than it looks? I could see him going in the middle of the round.

[lmbebo]

Wonder what Minny wants for #1. Probably a package thats worth more than #1 this year. Article saying they will pick Ball unless they get a trade.

[rankingtear]

Grain of salt, supposed insider , something to talk about atleast


SA - Been in talks with Atlanta but nothing is there so far and I finally got the okay on this one. They aren't open to trading White or Murray and Atlanta isn't hot on Samanic. They did offer LMA to Atlanta which I found interesting. There was some interest in a possible swap of 11/DeRozan for 6 from Atlanta if DD opts in but it was a nonstarter for San Antonio. Pop loves DD. SA been in talks with a number of teams to move up. I was told their target is Onyeka Okongwu. The issue with SA is they don't want to trade a future 1st and they don't want to move the PGs, DeRozan or Walker, as well as Keldon Johnson. It's kinda hard to make a move for players who aren't that appealing.


https://www.hawksquawk.net/topic/431653-ask-supes/page/156/#comments

Makes sense, they are 18th in PNR rollman and 21th in cuts playtype per Synergy , guessing they want a rim runner.

[Dejounte]

Grain of salt, supposed insider , something to talk about atleast



https://www.hawksquawk.net/topic/431653-ask-supes/page/156/#comments

Great find. How did you find this? Know any other forums with insiders?

Not sure how legit and how an outside source would know who the Spurs are targeting in the draft... That would be a leaky ship that the Spurs are running, if true. Easier to buy the other stuff in that post though since it could easily be learned from opposite teams of these trade rejections.

[rankingtear]

Great find. How did you find this? Know any other forums with insiders?

Not sure how legit and how an outside source would know who the Spurs are targeting in the draft... That would be a leaky ship that the Spurs are running, if true. Easier to buy the other stuff in that post though since it could easily be learned from opposite teams of these trade rejections.

Knicks reddit, they usually have good draft content so I frequent there. I'm guessing with failed trades it is easier to be leaked since reporters usually have this info and can't publish it. I think with who they want to draft is just guess work based on team needs and who they want to give up or keep.

Earlier spurs info:


7. If he falls, Vassell and the Spurs are the pair. A sleeper I was told for the Spurs is James Wiseman. He won't fall that far but don't be surprised if they moved up in the lottery. They have him at #1 I was told and have been doing their homework on him.


He said SAS will not blow it up. They like what they are doing now. They are seeing the results of it and a lot of people around the league feel since the drafts have been stronger of late, it's better to build while winning instead of tearing it down and needing luck to get on the right track aka the KB21 model is getting rave reviews. Teams find developing young talent difficult and it requires hitting on that talent and a good mix to work. Teams are realizing upperclassman players need to be targeted more for the NBA draft in today's NBA. PHX has already adjusted to this logic. Others are joining.


Been aggressive this year more than normal for field call to move up and down this year. They are mainly looking to cost. If there are trades, expect a similar trade like Saric/11 for #7 last year. I was told that White/Murray/Johnson/Walker are there core kids and they aren't open to moving them but some of the vets could be getting moved outside of DeRozan who can opt out.


Hawks really like Derrick White but so do the Spurs but that's what it's going to cost to move swap picks. I was told it's highly unlikely. That a LMA deal is more likely if they can find the right suitor. Spurs are in a position where they want to cut some 2020-21 salary.

[tbdog]

Interesting the rumour is Spurs are ready to move on from LMA. I thought TD staying out of the bubble to work with him, meant Spurs are still wanting to stay with him.

[tbdog]

On that link above

SA - Been in talks with Atlanta but nothing is there so far and I finally got the okay on this one. They aren't open to trading White or Murray and Atlanta isn't hot on Samanic. They did offer LMA to Atlanta which I found interesting. There was some interest in a possible swap of 11/DeRozan for 6 from Atlanta if DD opts in but it was a nonstarter for San Antonio. Pop loves DD. SA been in talks with a number of teams to move up. I was told their target is Onyeka Okongwu. The issue with SA is they don't want to trade a future 1st and they don't want to move the PGs, DeRozan or Walker, as well as Keldon Johnson. It's kinda hard to make a move for players who aren't that appealing.

[rankingtear]

- LA is for Dedmon , to save spurs 9 mil to resign own free agent or free agents + MLE
- 11+Samanic for 6 is what spurs offer , but ATL wants 11+Derozan

[objective]

Interesting the rumour is Spurs are ready to move on from LMA. I thought TD staying out of the bubble to work with him, meant Spurs are still wanting to stay with him.

That always seemed like a lame cover story to give Duncan an excuse to not go to the bubble. I mean, come on, the guy who ended up being the #1 assistant leapfrogging Hammon to take over during games is going to ... Help Aldridge in his rehab? :lol:

If I had to guess, Duncan won't be back coaching next season and will go back to just hanging out and working out with players. If Manu had accepted the offer to be an assistant then Duncan never does the job

[Chinook]

That always seemed like a lame cover story to give Duncan an excuse to not go to the bubble. I mean, come on, the guy who ended up being the #1 assistant leapfrogging Hammon to take over during games is going to ... Help Aldridge in his rehab? :lol:

If I had to guess, Duncan won't be back coaching next season and will go back to just hanging out and working out with players. If Manu had accepted the offer to be an assistant then Duncan never does the job

Eh, to me it looks like LMA had been working out pretty extensively during the hiatus. While I think Aldridge was held out because of his heart issue it wouldn't surprise me if Tim working with him really was the plan. Also, we don't know for sure that Tim hasn't developed some condition that would make COVID more dangerous.

I wouldn't be surprised either way about Tim. I had thought he took the job because Pop was retiring at the end of this year. That could still happen, though it's getting late. If he's confident he'll be gone after this upcoming season, I could see Tim sticking around. It's probably be best for the Spurs to bring in a real lead assistant though. Ironically, I think had Manu taken the job, Tim would still be in SA working with Aldridge right now.

[BackHome]

No way Spurs offering Luka +11th pick for Atlanta pick that is just crazy talk.

[Chinook]

I don't buy that insider scoop, at least I don't consider it fact. Like I doubt that Murray or even White and the others are truly off the table, but I could see if that were the smokescreen PATFO has put out. Remember, in 2011, the rumor was that the Spurs would trade Parker and make Hill the franchise PG.

I can't imagine the Spurs consider all three of White/Murray/DeRozan absolutely unmovable. I can buy that they don't think it's worth any of them to move up to 6. I can also buy that they wouldn't consummate a deal unless their guy fell anyway. But yeah, on the whole the info seems more like speculation than anything else.

But what if it's not? I don't like the idea of DeRozan playing the four full time. I think it's the best position for his skill-set, but it's not something his body can do for a full season, and it's way too exploitable if it's the main unit. Murray needs to get out of the SL if that's the case, because the main reason for putting DeMar at the four is to add a floor-spacer, and somehow the Spurs still end up with two non-shooters and one mediocre shooter with White and Walker having to take/sustain big steps forward. It feels like the team should want LMA more than ever if they are running with that unit, since Aldridge is more versatile Okongwu is an interesting player, but he seems more like a Poeltl upgrade than Aldridge replacement.

[Chinook]

No way Spurs offering Luka +11th pick for Atlanta pick that is just crazy talk.

I doubt they would unless they hate his attitude. If they've determined he's not a long-term piece though, it would make sense. With Johnson seeming like the nugget of the 2019 Spurs draft, Sam is basically house money. Using him to get a potential cornerstone is justifiable, just as it is with Murray or any of the others. I'd hope they didn't make such a huge mistake that it's apparent after just a year, but I'd rather than trade someone they believe in more if that's an option.

[exstatic]

I don't buy that insider scoop, at least I don't consider it fact. Like I doubt that Murray or even White and the others are truly off the table, but I could see if that were the smokescreen PATFO has put out. Remember, in 2011, the rumor was that the Spurs would trade Parker and make Hill the franchise PG.

I can't imagine the Spurs consider all three of White/Murray/DeRozan absolutely unmovable. I can buy that they don't think it's worth any of them to move up to 6. I can also buy that they wouldn't consummate a deal unless their guy fell anyway. But yeah, on the whole the info seems more like speculation than anything else.

But what if it's not? I don't like the idea of DeRozan playing the four full time. I think it's the best position for his skill-set, but it's not something his body can do for a full season, and it's way too exploitable if it's the main unit. Murray needs to get out of the SL if that's the case, because the main reason for putting DeMar at the four is to add a floor-spacer, and somehow the Spurs still end up with two non-shooters and one mediocre shooter with White and Walker having to take/sustain big steps forward. It feels like the team should want LMA more than ever if they are running with that unit, since Aldridge is more versatile Okongwu is an interesting player, but he seems more like a Poeltl upgrade than Aldridge replacement.

I think that the whole ‘off the table’ thing is situational. Maybe they feel the talent jump from 11 to 6 isn’t justification to move any of those players + 11, but if someone offered 3, they’d jump. The story of this draft for a good while has been nice players at the VERY top, but a long string of secondary talent through the first round. They won’t move assets for lateral talent. Doesn’t make sense.

If they really want to move Sammich, they need to FEATURE him in Austin this year, assuming our lottery pick will be with the big club. Someone will see the skill set and physical package, and Jones for him. They may be ready to move on. His MO coming in was poor attitude and less than optimal effort. The bubble kind of revealed their lack of plans for him, with LMA and Lyles out, and Sammich only getting minutes in the last game, when the Spurs fate had already been decided.

[JuneJive]

Yeah right. As if they are even considering trading Samanic.

Some idiotic speculation, imo.

[BackHome]

Luka was drafted with the clear understanding he was a project and was not NBA ready unlike Keldon who was NBA ready. I highly doubt the Spurs are going to draft a project and then get rid of that project after 1 year that just makes no sense and I do not think the Spurs have ever done that.

[exstatic]

Yeah right. As if they are even considering trading Samanic.

Some idiotic speculation, imo.

Why didn’t he play in the bubble, until the last game, when they were eliminated? LMA was out. Lyles was out.

[Dejounte]

Man, i hope Luka is busy working on his craft but his IG just shows him fooling around with a woman

[SpursDynasty85]

Why didn’t he play in the bubble, until the last game, when they were eliminated? LMA was out. Lyles was out.

Because he wouldve messed up the chemistry. He was least ready out of all the young guys. No one is untouchable except Keldon and White imo though.

[exstatic]

Because he wouldve messed up the chemistry. He was least ready out of all the young guys. No one is untouchable except Keldon and White imo though.

On a guard heavy team, Weatherspoon, a second rounder, played every game in the bubble. Every game. He’s on a two way contract, not even a full fledged NBAer.

[spurspl]

Man, i hope Luka is busy working on his craft but his IG just shows him fooling around with a woman

i cant see a willingness to work hard in him. Whats more i doubt in his love to the game. Even during the bubbles games he was lost on the court and played like he didnt care. He looks like a spoiled boy who has a potential and talent but prefers to hanging out with ppl, doing tattoos, spendin money etc. I really dont mind to trade him.

[Dejounte]

On a guard heavy team, Weatherspoon, a second rounder, played every game in the bubble. Every game. He’s on a two way contract, not even a full fledged NBAer.

To be fair, he also has 4 yrs of college ball experience

And probably displays more maturity due to his age

[SpursStar]

I would think Killian Hayes should be the target if you’re moving up. He’s one of the younger prospects and has size and professional experience in his back pocket. If we do trade someone, I’d rather it be Walker (or Murray) and LMA.

[The Truth #6]

Why didn’t he play in the bubble, until the last game, when they were eliminated? LMA was out. Lyles was out.

The whims of Pop? Get a last look at Eubanks? Doghouse for motivation? Lots of possibilities. Hard to guess with Pop. But I don’t see them trading Sam. When Pop traded Hill it was a yearlong con, starting in preseason, of pumping him up to inflate his value.

[Dejounte]

Luka is also under contract for three more years. The players Pop played during the bubble were players fighting to stay in the league or trying to get another contract.

[JuneJive]

They knew he was raw when they picked him.

Him not playing in his 1st season was to be expected.

The Spurs obviously have a long term schedule he must adhere to before he cracks the rotation.

Giving up on him after the first year is ludicrous and won't happen.

[exstatic]

Luka is also under contract for three more years. The players Pop played during the bubble were players fighting to stay in the league or trying to get another contract.

Spurs have options on him for the next three seasons, plus QO restriction for year 5, but his actual contract is only for next season. Before next season, they will have to pick up his year 3 option, but don’t see this as money committed for 4 more seasons. It’s not.

White.
DJ?
Keldon?
Lonnie?

These are players fighting to stay in the league?

[Dejounte]

Spurs have options on him for the next three seasons, plus QO restriction for year 5, but his actual contract is only for next season. Before next season, they will have to pick up his year 3 option, but don’t see this as money committed for 4 more seasons. It’s not.

White.
DJ?
Keldon?
Lonnie?

These are players fighting to stay in the league?

Eubanks
Marco
Poetl

Players trying to get a new contract

[Dejounte]

Spurs have options on him for the next three seasons, plus QO restriction for year 5, but his actual contract is only for next season. Before next season, they will have to pick up his year 3 option, but don’t see this as money committed for 4 more seasons. It’s not.

White.
DJ?
Keldon?
Lonnie?

These are players fighting to stay in the league?

Luka's contract gives the Spurs flexibility (which RC said they value). The Spurs have less contractual flexibility with others, period. They also look for the the financial well-being of their players.

[ZeusWillJudge]

They knew he was raw when they picked him.

Him not playing in his 1st season was to be expected.

The Spurs obviously have a long term schedule he must adhere to before he cracks the rotation.

Giving up on him after the first year is ludicrous and won't happen.


That's totally true. I disagreed intensely with the pick. But now that they've made it, they would be dumb to do anything but stick with the plan. I don't think he's the wonder-boy that a lot of you do. But I also don't think he's a total washout after one season in the G-League.

I do think that after watching him for a year against G-League competition, people should have seen enough to re-think his expected ceiling. I've tried to figure out what his niche in the league looks like, but I don't think he's going to grow into a franchise player. I never did, but I really don't now.

[The Truth #6]

That's totally true. I disagreed intensely with the pick. But now that they've made it, they would be dumb to do anything but stick with the plan. I don't think he's the wonder-boy that a lot of you do. But I also don't think he's a total washout after one season in the G-League.

I do think that after watching him for a year against G-League competition, people should have seen enough to re-think his expected ceiling. I've tried to figure out what his niche in the league looks like, but I don't think he's going to grow into a franchise player. I never did, but I really don't now.

That sounds like the best way to look at Luka now. Who was your preference at the time? Brandon Clarke? That was my wish.

[Dejounte]

That's totally true. I disagreed intensely with the pick. But now that they've made it, they would be dumb to do anything but stick with the plan. I don't think he's the wonder-boy that a lot of you do. But I also don't think he's a total washout after one season in the G-League.

I do think that after watching him for a year against G-League competition, people should have seen enough to re-think his expected ceiling. I've tried to figure out what his niche in the league looks like, but I don't think he's going to grow into a franchise player. I never did, but I really don't now.

Less than 5% of players become true franchise players. No one realistically expects that from a 19th pick, whether it was Luka or not. Its cliche but it must be said again: Luka is only 20 and still displays a set of skills that few or none of the 2020 draft class bigs possess.

[exstatic]

That's totally true. I disagreed intensely with the pick. But now that they've made it, they would be dumb to do anything but stick with the plan. I don't think he's the wonder-boy that a lot of you do. But I also don't think he's a total washout after one season in the G-League.

I do think that after watching him for a year against G-League competition, people should have seen enough to re-think his expected ceiling. I've tried to figure out what his niche in the league looks like, but I don't think he's going to grow into a franchise player. I never did, but I really don't now.

The difference between a franchise guys and all stars is purely between the ears. I think Luka’s ceiling is somewhere between top flight starter and borderline All Star. He’ll never be ‘the guy’ to put a team on his back, and make a deep playoff run, or ring.

[ZeusWillJudge]

That sounds like the best way to look at Luka now. Who was your preference at the time? Brandon Clarke? That was my wish.


My big "sleeper" for most of last season was Chuma Okeke, but he broke out at the end of the season and even with that injury he went above the Spurs' pick. I was talking about Matisse Thybulle a full year before his draft. Back when there were analysts and writers questioning whether he was undraftable. I would have been happy if they picked him. I was also a fan of Brandon Clarke, and thought he was a no-brainer pick that far down. The difference is that I said all those things before the draft and not after. I thought those guys were NBA-ready, and had all the upside they needed to be a good value at 19. I also thought that there was a reasonable chance that at least one of them would still be on the board.

I think Samanic will probably develop into about what you would expect for a 19 pick. Maybe a little more, but maybe less. Those other guys (above) were much more of a sure thing in my mind. Their Expected Value was higher in my estimation. If Samanic turns into a top-tier player, he'll be worth the risk. Anything less, and the Spurs would have been better off taking Thybulle or Clarke.

This year I think Saddiq Bey is one of those same type of NBA-ready value picks. I'd take Vassell, and I can't help but like Tyrese Halliburton. Not as stars, but as solid pieces for a team. And I think that there's a reasonable chance that at least one of them will be on the board for the Spurs. I'm not sold on Pokusevski any more than I was Samanic. And I think 11 is way to early to take a probably career role player like Precious.

Come back this time next year, and we'll compare notes and see if any of that was right. :D

[ZeusWillJudge]

The difference between a franchise guys and all stars is purely between the ears. I think Luka’s ceiling is somewhere between top flight starter and borderline All Star. He’ll never be ‘the guy’ to put a team on his back, and make a deep playoff run, or ring.


What I have a hard time getting people to understand is that I'm talking about the draft, and not the player. The only reason I even talk about him right now is for context to this year's draft. Last year's draft is gone. Sammich is going to be who he's going to be.

Most of these supposedly high-upside picks are exactly like playing the lottery. I never play scratch-offs, because on most of them the payoff is too low for the gamble. Before the draft, I didn't think Samanic's upside was really as high as most people here were saying. Too much gamble for a payoff that isn't really that exceptional. For true believers in Samanic's upside, picking him makes perfect sense.

Even now, I would rather have Thybulle than Samanic. This year, I would rather the Spurs pick someone like Bey or even Vassell, rather than, say, Pokusevski. But... they're the ones who saw the huge upside in Kawhi when I didn't even know who the hell he was. All any of us are doing is trying to predict what the Spurs are going to pull out of their hats. Maybe a chance to say "I told you so" when we guess right.

[BackHome]

All I want from this draft is to get a starting type of player anything above that is gravy tbh at 11th pick.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/1310966067460792322?s=19

No interview yet for Tyrell Terry for the Spurs

[ginobilized]

My big "sleeper" for most of last season was Chuma Okeke, but he broke out at the end of the season and even with that injury he went above the Spurs' pick. I was talking about Matisse Thybulle a full year before his draft. Back when there were analysts and writers questioning whether he was undraftable. I would have been happy if they picked him. I was also a fan of Brandon Clarke, and thought he was a no-brainer pick that far down. The difference is that I said all those things before the draft and not after. I thought those guys were NBA-ready, and had all the upside they needed to be a good value at 19. I also thought that there was a reasonable chance that at least one of them would still be on the board.

I think Samanic will probably develop into about what you would expect for a 19 pick. Maybe a little more, but maybe less. Those other guys (above) were much more of a sure thing in my mind. Their Expected Value was higher in my estimation. If Samanic turns into a top-tier player, he'll be worth the risk. Anything less, and the Spurs would have been better off taking Thybulle or Clarke.

This year I think Saddiq Bey is one of those same type of NBA-ready value picks. I'd take Vassell, and I can't help but like Tyrese Halliburton. Not as stars, but as solid pieces for a team. And I think that there's a reasonable chance that at least one of them will be on the board for the Spurs. I'm not sold on Pokusevski any more than I was Samanic. And I think 11 is way to early to take a probably career role player like Precious.

Come back this time next year, and we'll compare notes and see if any of that was right. :D

I thought Okeke had Spur written all over him and was hoping he'd fall to us, too. Brandon Clarke was a head-scratcher to pass up, but, Keldon has been a godsend.

Samanic just doesn't seem to have the drive, no fire in his eyes. That tends to fuel growth and I hope I'm wrong. Makes me wonder what the Spurs were so high on with him.

The draft should prove to be one of the strangest ever with all the extenuating circumstances. The extra time might help some organizations. Guess we'll see in November.

[TD 21]

Obviously we don't know the veracity of it, but if true . . .

- Not being open to trading Murray makes no sense, nor does DeRozan being a non starter in discussions, or not looking to blow it up (but being open to moving Aldridge, which is contradictory), but as usual ego and inertia wins the day.

- Interest in Okongwu and Wiseman seemingly lends more credence to the notion of their not being all in on Poeltl.

[Sugus]

Why didn’t he play in the bubble, until the last game, when they were eliminated? LMA was out. Lyles was out.

Speculating which players could be on the trade block based on Pop's rotations this season is kind of whack, tbh. This is the same Pop that wasn't even playing Lonnie half the games at the beginning of the season, putting him in the doghouse, benching White in favor of DJ when it wasn't earned, and absolutely refusing to play the most obviously defensive-upside lineup on a team that was bleeding points all season long. I'll take the bubble rotations with a grain of salt, especially in regards to the future of a rookie...

Now, if you tell me Patty could be on the trade block - yeah, I can see the reasoning to that.

[spurspl]

Obviously we don't know the veracity of it, but if true . . .

- Not being open to trading Murray makes no sense, nor does DeRozan being a non starter in discussions, or not looking to blow it up (but being open to moving Aldridge, which is contradictory), but as usual ego and inertia wins the day.

- Interest in Okongwu and Wiseman seemingly lends more credence to the notion of their not being all in on Poeltl.

sounds exactly like spurs.

[Sugus]

Obviously we don't know the veracity of it, but if true . . .

- Not being open to trading Murray makes no sense, nor does DeRozan being a non starter in discussions, or not looking to blow it up (but being open to moving Aldridge, which is contradictory), but as usual ego and inertia wins the day.

- Interest in Okongwu and Wiseman seemingly lends more credence to the notion of their not being all in on Poeltl.

I think Poeltl's stock understandably went down a lot with the bubble games. The Spurs needed to rely on him since our other bigs were out, Jakob had been playing very little minutes during the season and wanted a bigger role/opportunity, and he finally gets it with months of rest/train and LMA out for the bubble... And he squandered it. And it wasn't so much that he played horribly, but he just couldn't even stay on the floor against the more physical centers. I think it's safe to say that the Spurs view him, and his contract negotiations, in a different light after the restart, which is good for them tbh. Poeltl just doesn't fit the modern game too well, even though I like his game.

[BackHome]

Yeah his play screwed him out of a couple of million dollars I bet he wants to roll that back as it definitely will impact his new contract. I am OK with keeping him but he showed he is not ready to be a starter and to be honest I don’t know if he ever will be as he has ZERO offensive moves which in this day and age is a player killer.

[rankingtear]

Grain of Salt, from NBASupes


Those rumblings are on deaf ears. It seems MIN is drafting Ball regardless because his trade value is by far the highest. This might be the Wiggins pick of this draft where Ball might be a Wolves on paper but might start the season elsewhere. Edwards isn't going in the top 2. GS is a major lean for Deni. They really have decided that's their guy. I found out today that they are trying to do a deal where they trade MIN 1st 2021, Wiggins for Turner and Oladipo. They really want Turner a lot more than they want Warren or Oladipo. It seems like they will probably meet half way where it's Turner and neither one of these guys but it's likely they will take Deni. They like him a lot and sold on his fit with the squad. Edwards is the guy teams are over the place on. I am hearing his sweet spot is 5. No one knows what Charlotte will do at #3.
Chicago has been said to be a PG lean if Deni is not available. Hayes and Haliburton are their top guys. He mentioned there is some interest in Maxey.
Cleveland is a major Okoro lean. There is also thought this is where Edwards could fall at the lowest.
Atlanta is said to be the most gettable piece but very costly. He was told that it's too expensive for this draft. That's been said a lot. Everyone wants where they want to go to be cheap but the other team to be expensive. He said Atlanta is an Okoro lean
DET has been said to be a PG lean.
NY has been a BPA for Thibs system. Okongwu is the guy most projected here. If NY moves up, it's expected that Okoro is the target.
WAS has been a center lean. This is Wiseman's draft floor.
PHX has been stated to be a Jalen Smith lean.

- Center run starts at 8 , we have to jump to 6 or 7 to get a big man we like I think we have the same board as WAS
- NY may have Okongwu and Pat Williams
- WAS may have Okongwu , Wiseman , Jalen ( based on GM interview the Ringer looking for Bigs )
- PHX Jalen Smith is surprising never seen him mock to suns before , suns see him as Kurt Thomas ( NBASupes)
- Deni to GS seems to be a lock ( the Ringer mock, NBASupes )
- Many reports of Edwards (5 floor) and Wiseman (9 floor , Wasserman BR) dropping before this.
- Obi gonna drop to 10-14 if Hawks don't take him at 6. (NBASupes)
- CHA is the wild card , Jordan is gonna pick there the player he wants.
- SA Vassell (NBASupes) seems the most likely if we don't move up

[spurspl]

Grain of Salt, from NBASupes



- Center run starts at 8 , we have to jump to 6 or 7 to get a big man we like I think we have the same board as WAS
- NY may have Okongwu and Pat Williams
- WAS may have Okongwu , Wiseman , Jalen ( based on GM interview the Ringer looking for Bigs )
- PHX Jalen Smith is surprising never seen him mock to suns before , suns see him as Kurt Thomas ( NBASupes)
- Deni to GS seems to be a lock ( the Ringer mock, NBASupes )
- Many reports of Edwards (5 floor) and Wiseman (9 floor , Wasserman BR) dropping before this.
- Obi gonna drop to 10-14 if Hawks don't take him at 6. (NBASupes)
- CHA is the wild card , Jordan is gonna pick there the player he wants.
- SA Vassell (NBASupes) seems the most likely if we don't move up

i also read some rumors that GSW wants deni but this idea to get turner.. damn they could be a freakingly solid for the next yrs.

the rest is really interesting. thanks a lot.

MIN: Ball
GSW: Deni
CHA: (Edwards?)
CHI: Hayes/Haliburton
CLE: Okoro
ATL: Okoro
DET: Hayes/Haliburton
NYK: Okongwu
WSH: Wiseman
PHX: Jalen Smith
SAS: Vassell

[RC_Drunkford]

If Toppin drops take him!!!

[Chinook]

If Toppin drops take him!!!

Yeah, there's no question at 11. Like none at all. Even if he's literally Derrick Williams, that would be pretty nice at 11. Without the hype of being a top-three pick, it'd be much easier to give him a smaller role and let him figure out what he can do at the NBA level. Williams was a player who developed poorly more than anything else. He probably shouldn't've gotten the hype he did, but he had talent to cultivate. Seems like a decent Euro player now, and I think he'd've stuck around longer had he come into the NBA a few years later. He was a PF when guys his size were usually SFs.

[DAF86]

SA - Been in talks with Atlanta but nothing is there so far and I finally got the okay on this one. They aren't open to trading White or Murray and Atlanta isn't hot on Samanic. They did offer LMA to Atlanta which I found interesting. There was some interest in a possible swap of 11/DeRozan for 6 from Atlanta if DD opts in but it was a nonstarter for San Antonio. Pop loves DD. SA been in talks with a number of teams to move up. I was told their target is Onyeka Okongwu. The issue with SA is they don't want to trade a future 1st and they don't want to move the PGs, DeRozan or Walker, as well as Keldon Johnson. It's kinda hard to make a move for players who aren't that appealing.

Both bolded parts scare me.

[Degoat]

It will be great just to add a lottery talent to the team, I think ideally I’d like for the spurs to grab a big man if available but I’d be happy with anyone

[Dejounte]

No interview yet with the Spurs for RJ

https://twitter.com/ChaseHughesNBCS/status/1311025142781403136?s=19

timvp

That's now two guards that the Spurs haven't been linked yet. Make it three and ill start to believe they really will select a big in this draft.

[JuneJive]

That's now two guards that the Spurs haven't been linked yet. Make it three and ill start to believe they really will select a big in this draft.

If anything, this makes me think they will pick a guard.

[Dejounte]

If anything, this makes me think they will pick a guard.

Spurs of old, sure. I think technology and media has advanced so much that the Spurs can't hide anything anymore though.

Also, Luka and his lack of passion for basketball may make them more cautious about the characters of individuals.

[BackHome]

Umm I think after what happened with KY they would be more cautious in back ground checks.

[dbestpro]

Spurs over playing the value of their players once again which means no trades, resign Forbes and add a drat pick.

[SpursStar]

It could also be we just aren’t targeting those particular prospects. Hayes doing an interview was a hot topic among local media members the other day. I think Haliburton has media availability today, so we’ll see if he has a SA link.

I’m not overly impressed with any of the bigs in this class, and don’t think any are really worth picking at 11.

[KobesAchilles]

I want Hayes. I think it would be nice to have an actual point guard at all times on the floor. With White (better be a effing starter next season) and Hayes off the bench we can run our sets smoothly, do pick n rolls and pick n pops for our players. Also the ball will get less sticky on the court. No more murray dribble driibble then pass to demar who dribble dribbles. Also only having 2 players on our team who can actually dribble a basketball at a pro level scares me. Especially when both of them are up for contract extensions or just plain possibly leaving.

Bey would be my second pick just on the hope that we won't start Forbes anymore. I already know we are re-signing the bitch, but please for the love of all humanity don't let us start him AGAIN next year. I mostly blame Murray for the whole Forbes fiasco (part of the reason I'm super down on Murray) but with Bey we get someone with size that can shoot the ball at Forbes levels. With this pick, I would feel the most hope that Forbes will be brought off the bench (ahead of Lonnie might I add which is going to anger a shitload of fans here :lol )

[PhantomDashCam]

It gets going a bit more in earnest on Thursday, however, when teams can begin conducting direct, 30-minute interviews (via video chat) with specific requested players.
Each team, like, say, the Utah Jazz, can interview a maximum of 20 players over the coming weeks through Oct. 16, though each player can be interviewed by no more than 13 teams.

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/jazz/2020/09/30/nba-combine-is-under-way/

A little more info. about the combine. I was unaware that a player could only be interviewed at max by 13 teams. Interesting...

[rankingtear]

Last year it was Nassir Little, Keldon Johnson, Cam Reddish, Goga Bitadze. I don't know the rest usually players they don't have private workouts of. Or in this case previous and future zoom interviews scheduled because of the range of their picks , agent steering them to certain teams etc.

1311365066063851522

[talkspurs]

Would like Oturo with our second round pick. Dont think he will drop to us there but would be nice if he did.

[DPG21920]

I wouldn’t really worry about Pop loving DeRozan for many reasons. But namely if they loved him we wouldn’t be in this position; he had every chance to be extended and it never got close to happening

[Dverde]

I just think they are going to target a couple bigs like Jalen Smith. If they are off the board it’ll be best player available. I could easily seeing them draft another guard.

[Collins21]

I wouldn’t really worry about Pop loving DeRozan for many reasons. But namely if they loved him we wouldn’t be in this position; he had every chance to be extended and it never got close to happening

I'm just curious where did you hear it never got close to happening. What I heard a while ago was that they talked but the Spurs din't wanna commit to a long term deal.

[rankingtear]

Hali only interviewed for the Knicks , Detroit and Warriors

[Chinook]

Interviewing guards would suggest the Spurs are intending to trade Murray or White. Even if they do intend to do so, it makes sense for them to not indicate that and lose a bit of leverage

[R. DeMurre]

If Chicago picks a guard and the Spurs don't, Tomas Satoransky would be an interesting trade target-- 6'7", can play three positions, made the Bulls better when he was on the floor (but they don't seem to view him as a future piece), in his prime at 28 yrs old, reasonable contract. Would make Dejounte & Forbes expendable while also saving money. Better passer than DJ, would probably mix well with White and KJ.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/swishcultures_/status/1305549749630701570

https://twitter.com/rodgerbohn/status/1311838088889540608

https://twitter.com/MattBabcock11/status/1311739221279866881

[Sugus]

Man, I like Halliburton's game, but his shooting form is just ugly. I don't trust him.

[The Truth #6]

Man, I like Halliburton's game, but his shooting form is just ugly. I don't trust him.

Its bad. Tyler Bey’s is hideous.