If the Spurs draft 11th

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/YGeH7nRZ_No

This really smart fucking play by Jalen at 4:58 on the fast break.

Here I go again, getting really excited about a prospect...

Outside of Precious' ability to push the ball in transition, his other main appeal is his switchability and competent defense against perimeter players. Jalen has that in spades. I'm really impressed by the little things Jalen does...

He REALLY knows how and when to set screens. Check out 15:54. The Spurs have placed value in this before with Tiago and Poetl. They could very well be checking out Jalen because of this skill he has.

This is the second game I've watched where he helped spark a comeback against the opposing team. He made a huge three and then later a super critical rebound. And THEN made a major defensive play where he made his matchup airball badly.

This is a must watch game for anyone doubting if he should be under consideration at pick #11. Especially the second half. He made important play after important play.

Lord knows how much this team (the Spurs) needs a big pump of basketball IQ.

[mo7888]

Most mocks show Smith in the 20's. As I look at them it looks like alot of the guys we like will be available lower than 11. The further we go along the more I think our best option is to move up or down. Go up and get Wiseman or Obi and if that can't reasonably be done move down and get 2 picks. If we got two of Boston's picks I would think we could get a combination of two guys from this list. Precious, Nesmith, Smith, poku, woodard, perry, reed, Williams, vassell, Stewart, bollard, or the Frenchpg maladon.

I think thats better than sitting at 11.

[Dejounte]

Most mocks show Smith in the 20's. As I look at them it looks like alot of the guys we like will be available lower than 11. The further we go along the more I think our best option is to move up or down. Go up and get Wiseman or Obi and if that can't reasonably be done move down and get 2 picks. If we got two of Boston's picks I would think we could get a combination of two guys from this list. Precious, Nesmith, Smith, poku, woodard, perry, reed, Williams, vassell, or the French PG I forget his name (maladon maybe)...

I think thats better than sitting at 11.

Don't rely on mocks. They change so much especially this early. If you look at next month's mocks, they won't look anything at all like they do now. Especially after the combine.

[mo7888]

Don't rely on mocks. They change so much especially this early. If you look at next month's mocks, they won't look anything at all like they do now. Especially after the combine.
They do and they will change...that's why I included the list instead of focusing on a particular guy. Two from that list will be available if we trade down (probably most of them will be available). Getting 2 from that list at random is better than any one particular guy at 11 imo.

[Dejounte]

Feedback from people who kept up with Smith during the season, with similar observations to mine:

"As a terps fan I've seen every game of his and I currently have him in my top ten. Let me just start off by saying this was not even remotely the case until mid-January of this year. Around that time he finally grew into the 30 pounds that he reportedly put on in the offseason and started to put all of his skills together into a complete game. On offense he now is the perfect big imo with over the top shooting ability that isn't just simply catch and shoot. No other big men in this class are as good off screens, handoffs and pin downs as him. He also has great touch around the basket, sets good screens and is smart deciding whether to roll or pop based off what the defense is allowing. Still needs to work on his post game and off dribble offense. On defense he's a great rim protector using his length and athleticism to his advantage without fouling and can hold his own on a switch. He isn't necessarily elite at guarding quicker guards but can certainly hold his own.

I think he checks every box teams will be looking for come draft night and honestly I don't see how his game doesn't translate to the next level."

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/fagqsl/is_jalen_smith_the_best_big_in_this_draft/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

https://twitter.com/Cody_Wilcox15/status/1224865031977869313?s=19

[lmbebo]

think Spurs have scouted Smith from what I read before. Wouldn't be surprised if he is there pick

[Dejounte]

Updated tier list:

Tier 1
Deni Avdija
Obi Toppin
Isaac Okoro

Tier 2A
Jalen Smith - thoroughly impressed. Never thought he would make this jump. He just plays the right way and makes clutch plays. He's an instinctive player with high bball IQ.
Aaron Nesmith - if injuries are not a concern, seems like his offensive potential is through the roof. Not just a shooter.
Precious Achiuwa - switchability, mobility, and strength
Patrick Williams - probably the only forward with the right size that offers a glimmer of hope he can be our prototypical 3 (or 3/4)


Tier 2B (Not quite Tier 3...)
Isaiah Stewart
Aleksej Pokusevski

Tier 3
Tyler Bey
Robert Woodard II
Zeke Nnaji
Daniel Oturu
Xavier Tillman
Reggie Perry
Paul Reed

[exstatic]

Updated tier list:

Tier 1
Deni Avdija
Obi Toppin
Isaac Okoro

Tier 2A
Jalen Smith - thoroughly impressed. Never thought he would make this jump. He just plays the right way and makes clutch plays. He's an instinctive player with high bball IQ.
Aaron Nesmith - if injuries are not a concern, seems like his offensive potential is through the roof. Not just a shooter.
Precious Achiuwa - switchability, mobility, and strength
Patrick Williams - probably the only forward with the right size that offers a glimmer of hope he can be our prototypical 3 (or 3/4)


Tier 2B (Not quite Tier 3...)
Isaiah Stewart
Aleksej Pokusevski

Tier 3
Tyler Bey
Robert Woodard II
Zeke Nnaji
Daniel Oturu
Xavier Tillman
Reggie Perry
Paul Reed

Paul Reed is a beast, a better version of RoCo. TaT has him at #17 on their big board, but he’s #42 on their mock, because WTF?

[spurspl]

Updated tier list:

Tier 1
Deni Avdija
Obi Toppin
Isaac Okoro

Tier 2A
Jalen Smith - thoroughly impressed. Never thought he would make this jump. He just plays the right way and makes clutch plays. He's an instinctive player with high bball IQ.
Aaron Nesmith - if injuries are not a concern, seems like his offensive potential is through the roof. Not just a shooter.
Precious Achiuwa - switchability, mobility, and strength
Patrick Williams - probably the only forward with the right size that offers a glimmer of hope he can be our prototypical 3 (or 3/4)


Tier 2B (Not quite Tier 3...)
Isaiah Stewart
Aleksej Pokusevski

Tier 3
Tyler Bey
Robert Woodard II
Zeke Nnaji
Daniel Oturu
Xavier Tillman
Reggie Perry
Paul Reed

im not so sure bout okoro (imo hes a lil bit overhyped) and steward. With the rest i agree. Id add to this list killian tillie as a Tier 3. High mobility and 3pt efficiency for a center. Imo he could be a more safety and cheaper version of poku. Less potential and older than him but profitable for a 2nd round pick.

[Dejounte]

Paul Reed is a beast, a better version of RoCo. TaT has him at #17 on their big board, but he’s #42 on their mock, because WTF?

I've been trying to tell you... How are you so sure they arrange their big board in any specific manner other than grouping them by tiers? They had Rui at #21 on their big board last year...

[Dejounte]

im not so sure bout okoro (imo hes a lil bit overhyped) and steward. With the rest i agree. Id add to this list killian tillie as a Tier 3. High mobility and 3pt efficiency for a center. Imo he could be a more safety and cheaper version of poku. Less potential and older than him but profitable for a 2nd round pick.

I agree with you. I'm still iffy about Okoro. I was more focused on re-ordering my Tier 2 list.

[exstatic]

I've been trying to tell you... How are you so sure they arrange their big board in any specific manner other than grouping them by tiers? They had Rui at #21 on their big board last year...

Their big board is their absolute ranking by whatever criteria they use. The mock takes into account team needs/wants, GM dumbness, etc. They only really have 3 tiers this year, 1-4,5-8, and everyone else.

I’ve been on Reed since early in the process. His mock ranking has dropped, but not his big board spot.

[Dejounte]

Their big board is their absolute ranking by whatever criteria they use. The mock takes into account team needs/wants, GM dumbness, etc. They only really have 3 tiers this year, 1-4,5-8, and everyone else.

I’ve been on Reed since early in the process. His mock ranking has dropped, but not his big board spot.

Yes, I'm aware of the differences between the mock and big board. I'm merely questioning if there is an "absolute ranking" within the tier list or if they're just grouped within the tier without any order. It doesn't explicitly say anywhere that they had a criteria.

[mo7888]

Updated tier list:

Tier 1
Deni Avdija
Obi Toppin
Isaac Okoro

Tier 2A
Jalen Smith - thoroughly impressed. Never thought he would make this jump. He just plays the right way and makes clutch plays. He's an instinctive player with high bball IQ.
Aaron Nesmith - if injuries are not a concern, seems like his offensive potential is through the roof. Not just a shooter.
Precious Achiuwa - switchability, mobility, and strength
Patrick Williams - probably the only forward with the right size that offers a glimmer of hope he can be our prototypical 3 (or 3/4)


Tier 2B (Not quite Tier 3...)
Isaiah Stewart
Aleksej Pokusevski

Tier 3
Tyler Bey
Robert Woodard II
Zeke Nnaji
Daniel Oturu
Xavier Tillman
Reggie Perry
Paul Reed

That's a solid list

[Dejounte]

Yes, I'm aware of the differences between the mock and big board. I'm merely questioning if there is an "absolute ranking" within the tier list or if they're just grouped within the tier without any order. It doesn't explicitly say anywhere that they had a criteria.

For example, I don't see how any criteria would put Josh Green at #12 on their big board and over other prospects who are clearly better. His statistics arent even great.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=anthony-edwards--josh-green--rj-hampton--devin-vassell

[Kurgan]

Feedback from people who kept up with Smith during the season, with similar observations to mine:

"As a terps fan I've seen every game of his and I currently have him in my top ten. Let me just start off by saying this was not even remotely the case until mid-January of this year. Around that time he finally grew into the 30 pounds that he reportedly put on in the offseason and started to put all of his skills together into a complete game. On offense he now is the perfect big imo with over the top shooting ability that isn't just simply catch and shoot. No other big men in this class are as good off screens, handoffs and pin downs as him. He also has great touch around the basket, sets good screens and is smart deciding whether to roll or pop based off what the defense is allowing. Still needs to work on his post game and off dribble offense. On defense he's a great rim protector using his length and athleticism to his advantage without fouling and can hold his own on a switch. He isn't necessarily elite at guarding quicker guards but can certainly hold his own.

I think he checks every box teams will be looking for come draft night and honestly I don't see how his game doesn't translate to the next level."

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/fagqsl/is_jalen_smith_the_best_big_in_this_draft/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

https://twitter.com/Cody_Wilcox15/status/1224865031977869313?s=19

So he would start next to LMA? Anyone that would remove Trey Lyles from the roster is good in my book. I really, really dislike Lyles.

[Dejounte]

So he would start next to LMA? Anyone that would remove Trey Lyles from the roster is good in my book. I really, really dislike Lyles.

He would be a solid starter who won't be a liability at 4 on offense. He can check big 3s, guard regular 4s, and hold his own against bigs. He can keep up with guards. Basically the perfect 4 in today's NBA.

[BackHome]

Question for you do you think he is a good fit with Luka could they be on the floor together?

Would this line up work?

White
Keldon
Smith
Luka
Poodle

[exstatic]

For example, I don't see how any criteria would put Josh Green at #12 on their big board and over other prospects who are clearly better. His statistics arent even great.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=anthony-edwards--josh-green--rj-hampton--devin-vassell

I think they may rate on possible ceiling. Some guys who you see as better now could already be near the top of their dev curve.

[Dejounte]

Question for you do you think he is a good fit with Luka could they be on the floor together?

Would this line up work?

White
Keldon
Smith
Luka
Poodle

I think you have to look at their natural tendencies and from there you'll see how they fit.

We already know White, Keldon, and Poetl can all play together. So what you're really asking here is if Luka and Smith can play together.

The perfect fit for Luka is someone who can bang down low and be physical. Smith fits that mold and then some. Luka can be soft and hover out on the perimeter like Bertans with his ace 3 point shooting. We can't ignore Luka's ability to drive and be a playmaker, because he does have that skill. Now this is where Smith's unique because he is an awesome 3 point shooter too. If there's a play designed for Luka for him to drive, Smith can easily get out of the way and be ready for a pass if Luka needs to pass.

On defense, we all know Luka is pretty bad at rotations right now but we have to remember he was drafted because of his switchability. If he can be solid at guarding 3s and 4s, then defensively we shouldn't have any issues.

Just thinking about that line-up as a whole though... The potential on offense is scary. Keldon driving and dishing to three other great shooters. Wow.

[Dejounte]

I think Smith has shades of Pascal Siakam. The glaring difference is Smith doesn't have Siakam's driving ability (which is a huge part of who Siakam is). But that's how I see Smith could be. Maybe Smith can develop that part of his game in the future? I did see one or two plays where he attacked the basket on a closeout.

Let me put it this way: I think Smith's versatility on defense is better than Patrick Williams' right now. It's not even because Pat doesn't try, because he does. Smith simply has the intangibles and footwork (which may be due to the difference in their athleticism). Not saying Pat won't improve or become better.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/K28M9ufjLQk

"He's a coach's dream"

[Dennis the Menace]

Luka in all likelihood will be a bust. Rooting for him, but just being realistic.

A Rui Hachimura clone would be perfect

[Dejounte]

Luka in all likelihood will be a bust. Rooting for him, but just being realistic.

A Rui Hachimura clone would be perfect

If you're referring to Jalen as a Rui clone, I think that's not a good comparison. Rui loves taking inefficient mid-range shots and tries to play like a Kawhi clone...and fails badly at it. I think the dude is a blackhole on offense because he needs shots to be effective. As you can tell, not a big Rui fan lmao.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/feo_HbqsGUM

-If you want to cry, watch this video
-Jalen's nickname is Stix
-Seems like a really solid kid. A "stay loyal to your hometown" kid. Luckily, Baltimore doesn't have an NBA team.

[Dennis the Menace]

If you're referring to Jalen as a Rui clone, I think that's not a good comparison. Rui loves taking inefficient mid-range shots and tries to play like a Kawhi clone...and fails badly at it. I think the dude is a blackhole on offense because he needs shots to be effective. As you can tell, not a big Rui fan lmao.

Where did I ever mention Jalen Smith’s name? Is this a Jalen Smith thread?

I said that Luka sucks against NBA competition and in all likelihood will continue to suck against NBA competition. He lacks aggression and eye hand coordination is not on par. Odds are he will end up being a bust for a 1st round pick, even at #19. Until the kid shows something management shouldn’t make roster decisions/draft selections based on Luka being on the team.

Rui had a good rookie year. Quick google search and you can find 2 different references rating him as having the 6th or 7th best season out of his rookie class. My opinion is that having a “Rui” on this team would be great.

obviously you don’t like Rui’s game. I’m not looking to argue or go back & forth with you on this.

[exstatic]

Luka in all likelihood will be a bust. Rooting for him, but just being realistic.

A Rui Hachimura clone would be perfect
He did his year in Austin, and got one game’s worth of Real minutes and did quite well. He’s further ahead after one year than Metu is after two. Not sure why your even mentioning likely bust at this point.

[Dejounte]

Where did I ever mention Jalen Smith’s name? Is this a Jalen Smith thread?

I said that Luka sucks against NBA competition and in all likelihood will continue to suck against NBA competition. He lacks aggression and eye hand coordination is not on par. Odds are he will end up being a bust for a 1st round pick, even at #19. Until the kid shows something management shouldn’t make roster decisions/draft selections based on Luka being on the team.

Rui had a good rookie year. Quick google search and you can find 2 different references rating him as having the 6th or 7th best season out of his rookie class. My opinion is that having a “Rui” on this team would be great.

obviously you don’t like Rui’s game. I’m not looking to argue or go back & forth with you on this.

Oh, sassy. I misunderstood you. That's all. Sorry papi

[Dennis the Menace]

Oh, sassy. I misunderstood you. That's all. Sorry papi

Wasn’t trying to be rude, apologies if I came off this way. Carry on

[Kurgan]

If you're referring to Jalen as a Rui clone, I think that's not a good comparison. Rui loves taking inefficient mid-range shots and tries to play like a Kawhi clone...and fails badly at it. I think the dude is a blackhole on offense because he needs shots to be effective. As you can tell, not a big Rui fan lmao.

Never was a big fan of Rui either. I was suprised he went as high as he did. Blackhole is about as accurate as it gets for him.

[mo7888]

I think Smith has shades of Pascal Siakam. The glaring difference is Smith doesn't have Siakam's driving ability (which is a huge part of who Siakam is). But that's how I see Smith could be. Maybe Smith can develop that part of his game in the future? I did see one or two plays where he attacked the basket on a closeout.

Let me put it this way: I think Smith's versatility on defense is better than Patrick Williams' right now. It's not even because Pat doesn't try, because he does. Smith simply has the intangibles and footwork (which may be due to the difference in their athleticism). Not saying Pat won't improve or become better.

Do you think he can move well enough laterally in space to switch out on wings (or 4's)? I'm skeptical... I think he checks alot of other boxes though. He might be able to compensate for what I think is a liability by putting in work on his lower body.

[Dejounte]

Do you think he can move well enough laterally in space to switch out on wings (or 4's)? I'm skeptical... I think he checks alot of other boxes though. He might be able to compensate for what I think is a liability by putting in work on his lower body.

He moves better than most of the (tall) forward prospects I have watched. He moves his hips correctly and the footwork is excellent. I haven't been doing timestamps for the previous videos I've posted, but I'll try to do some tonight when I watch more tape. He guarded bigs twice his size in college so I don't see why NBA 4s would be an issue. If you mean chasing stretch 4s, I still think he's fast enough. Same with wings.

[mo7888]

He moves better than most of the (tall) forward prospects I have watched. He moves his hips correctly and the footwork is excellent. I haven't been doing timestamps for the previous videos I've posted, but I'll try to do some tonight when I watch more tape. He guarded bigs twice his size in college so I don't see why NBA 4s would be an issue. If you mean chasing stretch 4s, I still think he's fast enough. Same with wings.

Good to know...and yes I was referring to chasing 4's and wings..

[Dejounte]

Do you think he can move well enough laterally in space to switch out on wings (or 4's)? I'm skeptical... I think he checks alot of other boxes though. He might be able to compensate for what I think is a liability by putting in work on his lower body.

Quick one I found at the 3:00 mark


https://youtu.be/51hb7Z-L9uY

Not a great example because the player didn't move around much. I'll try to find some more.

[Dejounte]

Quick one I found at the 3:00 mark


https://youtu.be/51hb7Z-L9uY

Not a great example because the player didn't move around much. I'll try to find some more.

Better example: check out 7:01 mo7888

[BackHome]

He definitely has that twitch you always look for I can easily see him guarding 2 - 4 with no problems he has the foot speed and his lateral quickness is very good. The thing I like about the kid is he a total package in that he is a great defender getting you second chance points off rebounds and blocks he has a high basketball IQ just knows where to be. On the offense side he gets points around the rim he has good hops being very athletic he has decent mid range and projects to be a decent 3 point shooter.

The other thing is just like his attitude the kid seems very well grounded and seems to have the desire to get better definitely won’t worry about him not doing everything he can do to become a better player.

[Dejounte]

He definitely has that twitch you always look for I can easily see him guarding 2 - 4 with no problems he has the foot speed and his lateral quickness is very good. The thing I like about the kid is he a total package in that he is a great defender getting you second chance points off rebounds and blocks he has a high basketball IQ just knows where to be. On the offense side he gets points around the rim he has good hops being very athletic he has decent mid range and projects to be a decent 3 point shooter.

The other thing is just like his attitude the kid seems very well grounded and seems to have the desire to get better definitely won’t worry about him not doing everything he can do to become a better player.

Duuuude, the rebounds he makes when the game is on the line is insane. He also knows how to tip the rebound to his teammate kind of like how Tim Duncan used to do. He thinks fast and seems like a winner. I've been watching these games and he REALLY makes his presence felt at the end of the games. The big thing to me is he doesn't need to have the ball in his hands to make an impact. I love these kinds of players.

[mo7888]

Better example: check out 7:01 mo7888

Good find...

[objective]

Jalen Smith covered by draft-related Podcasts. Pull them up on your preferred podcast app or just google for these episodes, they're not hard to find

Prep2Pro episode 35, timestamp 1:08:57. From August 2nd, these guys are way down on him.

Draft Dummies episode 6, from May 8, timestamp 61:29. Not as down as Prep2Pro.

I have yet to watch full games though these podcasts do point to some with specific examples of what they see and use in their judgements.

[Dejounte]

Jalen Smith covered by draft-related Podcasts. Pull them up on your preferred podcast app or just google for these episodes, they're not hard to find

Prep2Pro episode 35, timestamp 1:08:57. From August 2nd, these guys are way down on him.

Draft Dummies episode 6, from May 8, timestamp 61:29. Not as down as Prep2Pro.

I have yet to watch full games though these podcasts do point to some with specific examples of what they see and use in their judgements.

I'll give it a listen because I try to be as unbiased as possible. I love what I see so far though. Not sure how in-depth they will go or if I will agree or disagree. We will see.

[objective]

Don't remember if I made a video post about him before and the control panel search feature is disabled, so if I'm repeating myself apologies in advance.

Saben Lee - 21 y/o junior.

32.9 mpg, 18.6 pts, 4.2 ast, 3.5 rb, 6.4 fta, 1.5 st. 48.3% fg, 32.2% 3pt. 75.2 ft%

Listed measurements: 6-2 with a 6-9 wingspan

MISC stuff pulled from the Draft Dummies podcast episode 21 timestamp approx 32 minutes. 1 of only 11 college players last 10 seasons his size or smaller to have at least 24 dunks in a season. 86th percentile pnr, 88th percentile iso, 91st percentile pull-up jumpers

Frequently mocked as a second rounder or undrafted, I'm not projecting him as a future all-star. Hell, maybe pick 42 or whatever the Spurs have in the second is too high as there could be better prospects there. I just think he's fun to watch (probably a lot less fun if he doesn't get that 3pt shooting better). I think I'd enjoy him as a 3rd string/2-way point guard. I enjoy his craftiness around the rim, and the dunks help.

Peachtree Hoops scouting report (https://www.peachtreehoops.com/2020/5/13/21254972/saben-lee-2020-nba-draft-scouting-report-vanderbilt-guard-atlanta-hawks)


https://youtu.be/gkkxNpLJOTg


https://youtu.be/cTrZDTzwt6E


https://youtu.be/jO5J6DzehxA

[objective]

https://twitter.com/ZachMilner13/status/1262241871197163521

if this tweet linking works :

1262241871197163521


Painted Lines Scouting Report: (https://thepaintedlines.com/two-combo-guard-prospects-you-should-know-skylar-mays-and-saben-lee/)


Lee ranked in the 92nd percentile among non post up finishes around the basket ... Least season, Lee attempted over 200 free throws (2nd in the SEC)

[Seventyniner]

Lee ranked in the 92nd percentile among non post up finishes around the basket ... Least season, Lee attempted over 200 free throws (2nd in the SEC)

Not gonna make any direct comparisons here, just gonna say that the Spurs had a pretty successful 6'2" guy who was great at finishing in the paint...

[Chinook]

I actually liked what I saw from Lee. Like I would prefer him to Weatherspoon, but Quinn is already on the team and isn't so bad as to not remain on it. Maybe he leaves to go overseas or something. Anyway, yeah, Lee seems like a heady player who isn't afraid of the moment, and he has good athleticism. If his defense is good, he'll get a shot in the league. For the Spurs, they'd need to lose a couple of guards before they can think of using a pick on one that isn't special. But Lee's penetration is at least intriguing.

[pad300]

If we are considering 2nd rounders now. Abdoulaye N'doye.

[Russ]

So with both Saben Lee and Aaron Nesmith (40% of the lineup), Vanderbilt was 11-21.

The NBA must be salivating.

[objective]

So with both Saben Lee and Aaron Nesmith (40% of the lineup), Vanderbilt was 11-21.

The NBA must be salivating.

They weren't a good team. But for what it's worth, Nesmith only played 14 games before he was hurt. Vanderbilt was 8-6 in those games.

[Russ]

They weren't a good team. But for what it's worth, Nesmith only played 14 games before he was hurt. Vanderbilt was 8-6 in those games.

Good point but that 8-6 was against early season non-conference patsies -- the kind than an SEC doormat like Vanderbilt feasts upon.

[objective]

Draft Dummies previously did an episode focused on the Spurs draft with some Spurs blog writer or something.

Episode 13, from June 27

It covers Okongwu, Vassell, Okoro, Avdija, and Williams.

[Dejounte]

Prep2Pro comments on Jalen Smith:

-doesnt know role in NBA
-best skill is rim protector on weakside
-wildly immobile
-hips narrow
-cant chase people off the ball
-would get beat up in general
-no change in direction
-weird prospect
-defensively brutal
-fine gamble in the second round
-defense bad, offense fine enough

Okay.... My first thought? Who the fuck are these guys, objective ? Their scouting of Jalen fucking sucks.

I'm gonna give their shitty takes a chance and watch a few more games just to review each of their points and see through their lens. I don't want to address each point yet with my emotions and preconceived notions about Jalen. I want to make sure.

[Dejounte]

Draft dummies comments on Jalen Smith:

-enticing prospect
-unicorn for spacing the floor and protect paint, ultra valuable
-would be a little bit better if he had a little more iq and motor
-didnt properly position himself at times
-moves side to side pretty well
-missed some assignments
-his potential, the way he moves, is off the charts
-love him as a prospect but needs to improve mentally
-slides fine on perimeter, not convinced he will be guarding on perimeter
-not super quick twitch athlete
-lower body strength an issue
-concerned about how he would handle the big centers (but acknowledges they are rare in NBA)
-needs to roll better in the PNR, says not a big weakness
-on offense, impressed that he visited mental health experts which helped him get over a shooting slump
-3 point shot looks good
-shows impressive flashes: post turnaround fadeway, ability to rebound way out of his area.
-high end outcome is Myles Turner
-low end outcome is Mo Bamba

Okay, so these guys sounded way more knowledgeable and actually provided examples. I disagree with a couple of their points, but they were way more convincing than those two fucking idiots from Prep2Pro Podcast

[objective]

Prep2Pro comments on Jalen Smith:

-doesnt know role in NBA
-best skill is rim protector on weakside
-wildly immobile
-hips narrow
-cant chase people off the ball
-would get beat up in general
-no change in direction
-weird prospect
-defensively brutal
-fine gamble in the second round
-defense bad, offense fine enough

Okay.... My first thought? Who the fuck are these guys, objective ? Their scouting of Jalen fucking sucks.

I'm gonna give their shitty takes a chance and watch a few more games just to review each of their points and see through their lens. I don't want to address each point yet with my emotions and preconceived notions about Jalen. I want to make sure.


Draft dummies comments on Jalen Smith:

-enticing prospect
-unicorn for spacing the floor and protect paint, ultra valuable
-would be a little bit better if he had a little more iq and motor
-didnt properly position himself at times
-moves side to side pretty well
-missed some assignments
-his potential, the way he moves, is off the charts
-love him as a prospect but needs to improve mentally
-slides fine on perimeter, not convinced he will be guarding on perimeter
-not super quick twitch athlete
-lower body strength an issue
-concerned about how he would handle the big centers (but acknowledges they are rare in NBA)
-needs to roll better in the PNR, says not a big weakness
-on offense, impressed that he visited mental health experts which helped him get over a shooting slump
-3 point shot looks good
-shows impressive flashes: post turnaround fadeway, ability to rebound way out of his area.
-high end outcome is Myles Turner
-low end outcome is Mo Bamba

Okay, so these guys sounded way more knowledgeable and actually provided examples. I disagree with a couple of their points, but they were way more convincing than those two fucking idiots from Prep2Pro Podcast

Prep2Pro, one of the guys is Ben Pfeifer who has been a pro NBA writer for various outlets for maybe a few years, still a young guy though.

Draft Dummies to my understanding are just 2 draft enthusiasts and not professional writers or analysts. Their first few shows were just independent uploads and they quickly were added to a podcast network.

I think I'll post all the NBA draft podcasts I listen to and include little bits of info like these.

[objective]

And while I haven't watched full games of Jalen Smith, the Myles Turner comp seems fair. Turner had those critiques about his gait and dynamic chain etc. But eventually became a defensive big who shot threes and is a legit starter.

And he was drafted ... 11th

[objective]

DRAFT RELATED PODCASTS that could be useful to anyone who wants to get deeper on the draft. Look them up on your favorite podcast app or google them, you'll be able to find them with perhaps 1 that's on youtube. In no particular order.

Draft Dummies. Two enthusiasts who you can tell watch the games and speak in detail. Typically they are NOT with the media/twitter consensus. They definitely have their own informed opinions and mindset on how they view the draft. They do agree with each other about 95% of the time but I find that any draft show tends to have people of a like mind. I would say for now I get the most out of this one.

Prep2Pro. Features 2 pros/semi-pro writers. These guys are real young, like most of 'draft twitter'. They seem to be more aligned with the consensus.

Locked On Hawks. Among the entire Locked On network of teams, nobody does the draft coverage like LoH which features different writers/bloggers/etc on. Because the Hawks have been a crap team so long LoH is basically a draft show year round, and if you go through the episodes it's just a ton of content, covering not just the lottery but also the second round and UFA. Sure, it's filtered through a Hawks aligned perspective, but I think it's worth it.

The Lottery. By the NBA draft writer from Bleacher Report, Jonathan Wasserman. More of a general draft podcast, has more of a media feel to it, perhaps more big board centric than other podcasts.

Game Theory. By Sam Vecenie, who is the draft guy for The Athletic. Lately his podcast is more NBA focused but will eventually turn to more in depth draft stuff, right now it's more of the media consensus type stuff. He also regularly guests on the RealGM NBA show with Danny Laroux and those episodes are all draft.

The Dane Moore NBA Podcast. A Timberwolves focused podcast, Moore and his co-host, a division II? assistant coach, do a lot of draft stuff on their podcast. Moore recently was a media member who was laid off during covid and took his podcast with him. I find it interesting, but I definitely don't agree a lot with them. For instance, they hated Patrick Williams, basically describing him as a bad smallball center. But, I still check out their player breakdowns.

Prospect Podcast. I don't think I've listened to more than 1 episode of this one yet, but I did download them. More super young college aged guys doing draft stuff. I should probably have listened more before listing them.

Knocking on Hardwood. Another college guy doing a draft podcast.

Chad Ford's NBA Big Board. No new episodes since June 15th, either due to the draft being moved back or a minor controversy involving some of Ford's language or something else. When it went on hiatus, most of it's episodes wer about re-drafts, so presumably if/when it comes back there will be more about the current draft.

Locked on Fantasy Basketball. Only a few draft related shows as of now, but that will change when the season's over.

Mike Gribanov, who has his own youtube channel. A writer for The Stepien if I remember right. Seems to be on hiatus now, but was just doing youtube streams of him going over who he looked at and what he thought of them and ranking them as he went. Previously was a part of the Hardwood Homies draft podcast (itself the follow-up to the official Stepien podcast), but that ended when the other co-host, one the legion of college student NBA draftniks, got a job or internship with an NBA team. But Gribanov was left behind. The youtube channel was his outlet in place of the podcast but I believe it's on hiatus now.

Other Locked On shows, other team related shows. Some like Down to Dunk (thunder related), Locked on Hornets, Locked on Bulls, I check these out when they have draft related content.

[objective]

I'll give it a listen because I try to be as unbiased as possible. I love what I see so far though. Not sure how in-depth they will go or if I will agree or disagree. We will see.

Draft Dummies cover Isaiah Stewart in Episode 7, timestamp 45:45

Slight Spurs related info with regards to his game.

[Dejounte]

And while I haven't watched full games of Jalen Smith, the Myles Turner comp seems fair. Turner had those critiques about his gait and dynamic chain etc. But eventually became a defensive big who shot threes and is a legit starter.

And he was drafted ... 11th

Meh, I think unless you have a track record of being right about prospects, whether you work for the NBA or work as a reporter, your input is the same as the next guy. I'm not saying not listening to people who do put their time into this, as it is good to have a different view point to remove your biases and watch a specific player again. But people do get carried away with what people hear or read and let that one video/ article/ site/ podcast dictate what they feel about a certain player. Effort needs to be put in these types of things. And if you end up being wrong about something, you need to learn from it to ensure growth. I'm saying all this but will also acknowledge that my feelings towards Jalen could change. Any player could look shiny the first several times you watch them (just look at people crazy over Poku)

That being said, unless Myles was quicker when he was younger, I think Jalen has more potential in that area.


https://youtu.be/xzRyXcSbRBg

Check out 50:14. Very good example of his twitch since the guard turns left and right. To me, Jalen is quicker with his feet vs Myles.

I look forward to your comments about Jalen after you have watched him.

[Dejounte]

Key note for everyone obsessed with wingspan (I can be guilty of this too): Jamal Murray has a 6'6" wingspan and is 6'4" tall. If there's a prospect out there and their offensive talent is through the roof, you go and get them.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/Shot_Quality/status/1300467571943186433?s=09

[DAF86]

Key note for everyone obsessed with wingspan (I can be guilty of this too): Jamal Murray has a 6'6" wingspan and is 6'4" tall. If there's a prospect out there and their offensive talent is through the roof, you go and get them.

Jamal Murray is nice and all, but he will never be more than a 2nd option on a contender, at best. If possible, I would rather shoot for a chance at a Kawhi, Lebron, Giannis, Durant, Doncic type player. That's why you search for length if possible.

[Dejounte]

Jamal Murray is nice and all, but he will never be more than a 2nd option on a contender, at best. If possible, I would rather shoot for a chance at a Kawhi, Lebron, Giannis, Durant, Doncic type player. That's why you check for length if possible.

Well, yeah, if the pool of players left where we select are clearly all low ceiling players (or if the Spurs don't believe in the potential that's there) is all I'm saying about players like Jamal...

[DAF86]

Do you think the Cletics would trade 14 and 26 for 11 and 41? With those two first round picks I think the Spurs would be able to get two pretty good prospects.

[Kurik]

If we got a player who becomes as good as Jamal Murray(I’m not even a big fan of his game) in this draft I will get season tickets. I don’t see anyone having a chance of really being all nba in this draft but certainly some sub all star level potential. I also hope I’m wrong and the Spurs hit big on someone.

[mo7888]

Do you think the Cletics would trade 14 and 26 for 11 and 41? With those two first round picks I think the Spurs would be able to get two pretty good prospects.

If someone they are after is available at 11 on draft night I think they would

[exstatic]

Do you think the Cletics would trade 14 and 26 for 11 and 41? With those two first round picks I think the Spurs would be able to get two pretty good prospects.

I think Boston, with 3 first rounders who will all get guaranteed deals and a hefty payroll, will look to deal one or more of them. Philly also has 4 SECOND round picks. Houston has no picks at all, and Memphis, Indy, and the clippers are without first rounders.

[Dejounte]

DRAFT RUMORS:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NBA_Draft/comments/ii5vfh/rumors_about_teams_interested_in_certain_prospect/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/12MF5oW-ZSm4Oz6e1WvYMgfrBQM9cGNt4QkqOiwHyeJ8/mobilebasic?pli=1

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1300507896107560960?s=19

Says he honed in on Kevin Garnett

Says he will bring versatility to a team, will defend smaller players

Says he won't back down from anybody, including LeBron James

[spurspl]

Do you think the Cletics would trade 14 and 26 for 11 and 41? With those two first round picks I think the Spurs would be able to get two pretty good prospects.

thats possible but imo most likely celtics will use their pick(s) to get rid of hayward and get other star which will help them next season. Probably they would want LMA from us.

[mo7888]

thats possible but imo most likely celtics will use their pick(s) to get rid of hayward and get other star which will help them next season. Probably they would want LMA from us.

I do think they use Hayward and picks to try and get a star... I'm just not sure if we fit in that scenario...maybe if they can't get a star they would settle for a package around lma..

[BackHome]

A lot will depend on Hayward coming back and how he performs during Boston’s run.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/SKPearlman/status/1236997004649271296?s=19

[Dejounte]

On some of Jalen's threes, I'm amazed how well he moved off the ball and off screens to become as open as he is on some of those plays...like he's way open. It's reminscent of Aaron Nesmith but at a lower frequency. I'm not sure how common that is with big men who shoot 3s. I guess it's sort of like JJJ from the Grizzlies? That dude was a killer on 3s.

I read about his shot mechanics and how it doesn't need to be remade, which is good. His shots are flat, which is explained by his lower percentages on guarded catch and shoots. If Chip gets to work on that shot, he might become a helluva shooter.

[Dejounte]

Another thing to keep in mind is how well a prospect's "hot spots" complement where our current players like to shoot. I've been checking out shot charts for each player on the Spurs and draft prospects. A quick glance tells me that Keldon likes to shoot from the left side/ left corner of the basket, Lonnie likes to shoot at the right side, etc. From what I've seen, Jalen likes to shoot from the top of the key and the right side. Not sure how much this factors in since I'm not in the Spurs war room but you have to think it does.

[Dejounte]

“What makes him so tough is his ability to play all over the court. He’s a guy that can pick-and-pop. They’re running plays for him to come off down screens for 3s. He can drive it. Obviously his length, you get six offensive rebounds and then he can score around the basket. There’s a reason why he’s going to play basketball for a long time and, health-willing, have a magnificent career. He’s a terrific player, and I’m a big fan of what he does.”

“He’s actually doing better than I imagined this year,” Turgeon said. “And even two months ago, in December, I wasn’t sure we could get to this so fast. ... We’re really working on when big guys are running at him, him driving the ball and making plays for himself, for other people. We’re still evolving. We can still get a lot better before the year is over and [Smith] is working at it. He wants to be great.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.baltimoresun.com/sports/terps/bs-sp-three-takeaways-maryland-maryland-northwestern-20200219-pqvuebnaczctrjfwne5fllwehq-story.html%3foutputType=amp

If Jalen learns the ability to drive, that would be scary. Top 10 pick if he did.

My dream would be to have a Pascal type player on this team:


https://youtu.be/aHq6mpfn8Yk

(Fun fact: Precious says he talks with Pascal and models his game after him)

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/qS0CRc0bYpw

Pascal Siakam in college

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/FSNWXBt8yRc

"There's a lot I can work on. The one thing I need to work on now is making moves off the dribble. Every team is running me off the dribble. I need to do more than a straight drive, just to spice it up a bit."


https://youtu.be/ecByI7yVJbA

[keithington1]

Spurs fans really aren’t mentioning Jaden. If any staff can make him a great player its the Spurs. The tools are there. He’s in the Brandon Ingram mold, a skinnny long shot maker. I think Pop can give him a defined roll until he develops desicion making. And DJ can coach him up how to be a pro. He fits this roster now but he also has all nba potential if he puts it all together. He might play similar to Michael Porter Jr. on this team next year. Only thing is, he can’t really play small ball center like P. Williams and Precious. He has top 10 potential in this draft he just needs to learn how to use his abilities.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZcrwHQFWOA&t=5s

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/bouncepassos/status/1301518124076990464?s=19

Lmao I fucking called it!

[XDT76]

https://twitter.com/bouncepassos/status/1301518124076990464?s=19

Lmao I fucking called it!

Does this mean DDR or God forbid Beli is signing a new contract?

[exstatic]

https://twitter.com/bouncepassos/status/1301518124076990464?s=19

Lmao I fucking called it!

Yeah, why don’t you wait for the ACTUAL pick before taking a victory lap, hmm?

[exstatic]

Does this mean DDR or God forbid Beli is signing a new contract?

Not sure how you even extrapolated that from the tweet. Anyone we draft will need development time, and should have zero impact on the makeup of next year’s roster.

[XDT76]

Not sure how you even extrapolated that from the tweet. Anyone we draft will need development time, and should have zero impact on the makeup of next year’s roster.

Seeing how we are low on SF if we are looking more at a big man in this draft, that means the FO already has a long term plan on SF, other than KJ, DDR and Beli are currently 2 of their choice of SF.

[Dejounte]

Yeah, why don’t you wait for the ACTUAL pick before taking a victory lap, hmm?

Looks like you still view this as a me vs Poku thing when it's clearly not. This isn't middle school. I'll be supporting Poku if he gets drafted. This post was just to express excitement that the Spurs are reportedly looking at the under-the-radar prospects among Spurs fans that I've been pumping up (like many pages worth), specifically Isaiah Stewart and Jalen Smith.

[exstatic]

Looks like you still view this as a me vs Poku thing when it's clearly not. This isn't middle school. I'll be supporting Poku if he gets drafted. This post was just to express excitement that the Spurs are reportedly looking at the under-the-radar prospects among Spurs fans that I've been pumping up (like many pages worth), specifically Isaiah Stewart and Jalen Smith.

Not focused on any player preferences by you. It’s just a bad idea to crow too soon, in any case. No one is right, or prescient, until the pick is made. There could be a scoop tomorrow about RC being seen scouting Poku, and my reaction would be “Let’s see what happens on draft night”.

[Dejounte]

Out of the four mentioned in the report,

Jalen Smith has the least flaws to fix (or has the least question marks). His lower body needs work, and once it has, will enable him to improve his foot speed. I've seen him working on this in social media, so that's a good sign. He plays with a great understanding of organized basketball. He shoots 3s in a myriad of ways which make him an advanced level prospect. I honestly think he's on equal footing with Okongu -- Okongwu has better lateral movement, but can't shoot threes, while Jalen is the opposite.

Isaiah Stewart has questions marks about his ability to defend on a switch. This is primarily because his college team played zone. He's a big body who is super effective in the post. He's shown an ability to shoot 3s (only spot ups), but not as good as Jalen. Will he be quick enough to expand his defensive role to guarding stretch 4s?

Precious Achiuwa's problem is between the ears. He seems like the Dejounte Murray of the PF position. A lot of flashes of elite skill supported by their freak bodies. However, doesn't know where to be at times, reckless, and boneheaded plays. So will the Spurs think they can instill a basketball mind into this young man like they're trying to do with Murray? If they succeed, they will have a helluva player. Precious plays like he's never been coached in his life at times (similar to Poku).

I have not watched as much of Oturu as I have the others, but from what I have watched, he's a net zero when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. Average on defense, doesnt move around very much on offense.

[Dejounte]

Not focused on any player preferences by you. It’s just a bad idea to crow too soon, in any case. No one is right, or prescient, until the pick is made. There could be a scoop tomorrow about RC being seen scouting Poku, and my reaction would be “Let’s see what happens on draft night”.

Believe me, I'm under that same mindset. I'm simply celebrating the fact that there's an actual scoop like this and that I have not wasted my time watching these prospects. On the opposite end, if there was a report saying the Spurs were looking at guards, I would be fucking upset.

[duncan2150]

Out of the four mentioned in the report,

Jalen Smith has the least flaws to fix (or has the least question marks). His lower body needs work, and once it has, will enable him to improve his foot speed. I've seen him working on this in social media, so that's a good sign. He plays with a great understanding of organized basketball. He shoots 3s in a myriad of ways which make him an advanced level prospect. I honestly think he's on equal footing with Okongu -- Okongwu has better lateral movement, but can't shoot threes, while Jalen is the opposite.

Isaiah Stewart has questions marks about his ability to defend on a switch. This is primarily because his college team played zone. He's a big body who is super effective in the post. He's shown an ability to shoot 3s (only spot ups), but not as good as Jalen. Will he be quick enough to expand his defensive role to guarding stretch 4s?

Precious Achiuwa's problem is between the ears. He seems like the Dejounte Murray of the PF position. A lot of flashes of elite skill supported by their freak bodies. However, doesn't know where to be at times, reckless, and boneheaded plays. So will the Spurs think they can instill a basketball mind into this young man like they're trying to do with Murray? If they succeed, they will have a helluva player. Precious plays like he's never been coached in his life at times (similar to Poku).

I have not watched as much of Oturu as I have the others, but from what I have watched, he's a net zero when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. Average on defense, doesnt move around very much on offense.

I agree overall, same question for stewart so he's not my first option.

I have Smith and achiuwa before stewart and then oturu.

I understand the dejounte murray of the PF for Achiuwa but i think his skills are more advanced than dejounte when he came to the league.

[rankingtear]

Seeing how we are low on SF if we are looking more at a big man in this draft, that means the FO already has a long term plan on SF, other than KJ, DDR and Beli are currently 2 of their choice of SF.

Lonnie plays 70% of his minutes at SF. They asked him to bulk up to play that position.

[exstatic]

Believe me, I'm under that same mindset. I'm simply celebrating the fact that there's an actual scoop like this and that I have not wasted my time watching these prospects. On the opposite end, if there was a report saying the Spurs were looking at guards, I would be fucking upset.

If they were scouting Halliburton, I’d be dancing in the street. I think he’ll be one of the top 3 players in this draft, a few years down the road. They’d have to move up for him, though. Maybe they’d move a guard, and their 11 pick?

[EasyMoney]

According to the Athletic. " Spurs are said to be deeply evaluating the big men in this class across the spectrum, from Isaiah Stewart and Daniel Oturu to Precious Achiuwa and Jalen Smith."

[Sugus]

https://twitter.com/bouncepassos/status/1301518124076990464?s=19

Lmao I fucking called it!

Really interesting to see this report. Hope the source is trustful... Stewart, Achiuwa and Smith are all very interesting prospects. I wonder if this means the Spurs would be willing to trade up if they fall in love with two of the prospects? Or maybe try and get another first round pick by shipping out one of our players? Fingers crossed...

Also no mention of Poku, who's projected to be a 4/5, is he even considered a "big man"? Maybe they're scouting him on the down low... Can't wait for draft night, tbh.

[Dejounte]

Really interesting to see this report. Hope the source is trustful... Stewart, Achiuwa and Smith are all very interesting prospects. I wonder if this means the Spurs would be willing to trade up if they fall in love with two of the prospects? Or maybe try and get another first round pick by shipping out one of our players? Fingers crossed...

Also no mention of Poku, who's projected to be a 4/5, is he even considered a "big man"? Maybe they're scouting him on the down low... Can't wait for draft night, tbh.

The source: https://theathletic.com/2037121/2020/09/03/vecenie-2020-nba-mock-draft-7-1-a-mini-update-based-on-what-im-hearing?source=user-shared-article

[Dennis the Menace]

Precious reminds me of Boogie Cousins. Let’s go

[BackHome]

Looks like Draft will be October 16 - Someone we’re not talking about Kira Lewis might be a surprise pick from Spurs.

[exstatic]

Precious reminds me of Boogie Cousins. Let’s go

Boogie cousins was a fat entitled burnout pouty mamas boy.

[Duncan2177]

Looks like Draft will be October 16 - Someone we’re not talking about Kira Lewis might be a surprise pick from Spurs.

Yay just what this team needs is another guard. :rolleyes

[SpurPadre]

I haven't seen much talk about Isaac Okoro here. If he falls to us, what do you guys think about drafting him?

[pad300]

Vecenie is not the most trustworthy source...

[exstatic]

Vecenie is not the most trustworthy source...

OK, here’s the skinny. Anyone saying they’re getting info from inside the Spurs is lying. SA runs one of the tightest draft ships in the league. You might get a snippet during trade or FA season, but not draft time. They’ve had to play tight defense for decades to keep teams from snagging their players.

[ZeusWillJudge]

I haven't seen much talk about Isaac Okoro here. If he falls to us, what do you guys think about drafting him?


I don't hate Okoro. I would hope the Spurs could come up with something better at 11. I don't think he's as good at anything as Thybulle was, and the Spurs passed on him. But he's a little heavier than Thybulle and he's young. The biggest thing is that I hear he's more like 6'4 1/2" tall. He doesn't have a freakish wingspan, or overwhelming athleticism/quickness. If he could shoot 3's, I think he'd make a great 2 to replace Forbes. But he can't. Maybe he could come in and shut down Harden in the playoffs?

[mo7888]

OK, here’s the skinny. Anyone saying they’re getting info from inside the Spurs is lying. SA runs one of the tightest draft ships in the league. You might get a snippet during trade or FA season, but not draft time. They’ve had to play tight defense for decades to keep teams from snagging their players.

Anything coming from inside the Spurs right now is what they want put out there.

[TD 21]

If true, with the possible exception of Achiuwa, they'd obviously have to trade back, with the Celtics (14, 26, 30) as clear candidates.

I'd probably prefer they stand pat, but I could understand the argument of trading 11 for 14 and 26 and ending up with Smith and Bane, for example.

[duncan2150]

If true, with the possible exception of Achiuwa, they'd obviously have to trade back, with the Celtics (14, 26, 30) as clear candidates.

I'd probably prefer they stand pat, but I could understand the argument of trading 11 for 14 and 26 and ending up with Smith and Bane, for example.

Would be a good scenario, moving down while having one more pick.

[DAF86]

https://twitter.com/bouncepassos/status/1301518124076990464?s=19

Lmao I fucking called it!

Meh, doesn't really mean anything. Last season, a lot of folks were rumoured for the Spurs and they went with a guy that nobody had in mind in Samanic.

[DAF86]

Out of the four mentioned in the report,

Jalen Smith has the least flaws to fix (or has the least question marks). His lower body needs work, and once it has, will enable him to improve his foot speed. I've seen him working on this in social media, so that's a good sign. He plays with a great understanding of organized basketball. He shoots 3s in a myriad of ways which make him an advanced level prospect. I honestly think he's on equal footing with Okongu -- Okongwu has better lateral movement, but can't shoot threes, while Jalen is the opposite.

Isaiah Stewart has questions marks about his ability to defend on a switch. This is primarily because his college team played zone. He's a big body who is super effective in the post. He's shown an ability to shoot 3s (only spot ups), but not as good as Jalen. Will he be quick enough to expand his defensive role to guarding stretch 4s?

Precious Achiuwa's problem is between the ears. He seems like the Dejounte Murray of the PF position. A lot of flashes of elite skill supported by their freak bodies. However, doesn't know where to be at times, reckless, and boneheaded plays. So will the Spurs think they can instill a basketball mind into this young man like they're trying to do with Murray? If they succeed, they will have a helluva player. Precious plays like he's never been coached in his life at times (similar to Poku).

I have not watched as much of Oturu as I have the others, but from what I have watched, he's a net zero when he doesn't have the ball in his hands. Average on defense, doesnt move around very much on offense.

Why do you like so many undersized bigmen that can't really defend full time on the perimeter, tbh?

[duncan2150]

Meh, doesn't really mean anything. Last season, a lot of folks were rumoured for the Spurs and they went with a guy that nobody had in mind in Samanic.

Samanic had a dinner with pop and rc during the process. He was on the spurs radar.

[DAF86]

Anything coming from inside the Spurs right now is what they want put out there.

Meaning: not their real targets. This is what teams do every year come draft time.

[DAF86]

Samanic had a dinner with pop and rc during the process. He was on the spurs radar.

But wasn't know untill afterwards, tbh. Definitely not this early on the process.

[Dejounte]

Meh, doesn't really mean anything. Last season, a lot of folks were rumoured for the Spurs and they went with a guy that nobody had in mind in Samanic.

That's not true. There were reports of them scouting Samanic.

[Dejounte]

Why do you like so many undersized bigmen that can't really defend full time on the perimeter, tbh?

How is Jalen undersized? How is Oturu undersized? Fuck off, dude. You're so annoying.

There's literally no big men who's reputed for being able to guard the perimeter full time. Onyeka is the only one who comes close.

[cd021]

But wasn't know untill afterwards, tbh. Definitely not this early on the process.
Yeah Samanic was linked to the Spurs pretty early on. He even posted something on IG about them following a workout. it seemed pretty clear that the Spurs were going to use one of their picks on him.

[Dejounte]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.poundingtherock.com/platform/amp/2019/5/2/18526715/report-the-spurs-are-scouting-croatian-forward-luka-samanic

Almost two months before the draft.

[DAF86]

I guess I was wrong then. I just remember everybody being dumbfounded on draft night when they went with Samanic at 19.

[XDT76]

I guess I was wrong then. I just remember everybody being dumbfounded on draft night when they went with Samanic at 19.

That's because most thought Spurs would go for him at 29 and go for someone more ready at 19. However as KJ slips to 29, I think it is okay as no one will really be as upset if KJ is chosen at 19 and Luka at 29. The only difference would be their pay would swap.

[SpurPadre]

I guess I was wrong then. I just remember everybody being dumbfounded on draft night when they went with Samanic at 19.

Maybe the expectation was that we were going to be drafted with the 29th pick instead of 19th.

[BackHome]

Yep it was when he was picked that surprised everyone I guess they felt like he wouldn’t be there late in the draft and that he was worth it to pick really early.

[Kurgan]

That's because most thought Spurs would go for him at 29 and go for someone more ready at 19. However as KJ slips to 29, I think it is okay as no one will really be as upset if KJ is chosen at 19 and Luka at 29. The only difference would be their pay would swap.

As disappointing as he's been, it's fair to give him another year or two to figure it out. Lonnie was drafted higher(18th pick) and he still hasn't put it all together after two years with the Spurs.

[ZeusWillJudge]

That's not true. There were reports of them scouting Samanic.


There were at least two reports of RC being overseas in the gym where Luka was playing. It could have been about some other player, but it was pretty much understood that he was looking at Luka.

[JuneJive]

Jalen is the pick, it would seem as a reach at #11, but I think he could even go in the top 10.

[Dejounte]

Jalen is the pick, it would seem as a reach at #11, but I think he could even go in the top 10.

He's a riser. A big who has good interior D with solid 3 point shooting? Not to mention all the intangibles. Very valuable.

[XDT76]

As disappointing as he's been, it's fair to give him another year or two to figure it out. Lonnie was drafted higher(18th pick) and he still hasn't put it all together after two years with the Spurs.

Oh don't get me wrong, I was just answering to why people are surprise when Luka was drafted at 19

[Chinook]

I guess I was wrong then. I just remember everybody being dumbfounded on draft night when they went with Samanic at 19.

I don't remember him being a surprise in that way. Just as people are projecting the Spurs to draft "some unknown Euro" as a half-joke in this draft, they were saying it last draft. The best candidates for that were Sam and Goga (who went one pick ahead). I was "dumbfounded" because I thought the board had broken down very well for them to pick among some good options, with Clarke being a guy I had in my top five. But no, it was a completely predictable pick. Not saying the odds were like over 50 percent, but he was definitely the plurality guess at that point.

[Thomas82]

OK, here’s the skinny. Anyone saying they’re getting info from inside the Spurs is lying. SA runs one of the tightest draft ships in the league. You might get a snippet during trade or FA season, but not draft time. They’ve had to play tight defense for decades to keep teams from snagging their players.

And sometimes that still wasn't enough. The years that come to mind for me are 2008 (Nic Batum/Serge Ibaka) and 2013 (Rudy Gobert). If I'm not mistaken, the Spurs actually wanted Tony Bradley in 2017 before the Lakers took him 1 spot ahead of us. But it looks like we got the better end of that deal.

[Uriel]

Weren’t we also rumored to be trying to trade up to get Lonnie Walker, only for him to fall into our laps?

Also, I remember the Spurs were widely expected to pick Bertans in 2011 and they did.

[Dejounte]

Weren’t we also rumored to be trying to trade up to get Lonnie Walker, only for him to fall into our laps?

Also, I remember the Spurs were widely expected to pick Bertans in 2011 and they did.

Rumors can't be true though unless it aligns with who *I* want for the Spurs.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/O_pdqaGa_Yk

41 more days... Hope we get someone good.

[Dejounte]

Prospects are receiving their Draft Combine apparel via instagram.

[lmbebo]

https://youtu.be/O_pdqaGa_Yk

41 more days... Hope we get someone good.


Foot work looks iffy ...

[Dejounte]

Foot work looks iffy ...

On offense or defense?

That's fair if you think so. I think he has a solid foundation to where he can earn playing time easily, and the rest of his game can develop with those minutes.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/l-w9ucr0Va0

This highlight reel is interesting; I had believed his jump shooting was something he simply added to his arsenal in college, but apparently he had already looked comfortable doing it two years ago. No wonder it looks so smooth.
Sugus objective

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/N80gHthqo_o

GREAT video of Jalen showcasing his ability to guard perimeter players. There are for sure areas of improvement, but in my opinion I think they are fixable. I especially like the last play.
Sugus objective timvp

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/htu4NSjlErA

Daydreaming about the two-man game between Jalen and Keldon after watching this video...

[cd021]

Has there been anymore discussion about pushing the draft back? It says October 16th, but I could see it being pushed back to early November due to its close proximity to the end of the Finals.

That would push everything else back by a couple of weeks, one would think too.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/cDy2bDaiT3c

Some footage here I haven't seen anywhere else.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I really like what he brings. If he’s the guy do you take him at 11 or trade down and pick up another asset? Personally I think you take him at 11 and just buy another 1st or high 2nd.

[spurspl]

I really like what he brings. If he’s the guy do you take him at 11 or trade down and pick up another asset? Personally I think you take him at 11 and just buy another 1st or high 2nd.

im all in for gettin another picks, we need a young talents, the more picks we take the higher chances that one of them become a franchise player we desperately need

[BackHome]

I think you might see at least 3 teams sale there first round pick but I have never known the Spurs organization buy a first round pick. But on the other hand we have always been in the Playoffs for the last 20 years so they may want them to change that philosophy.

Heck I think we could use our foreign draft pick Nikola to trade with someone who doesn't want it but wants something in return to appease there fans.

[objective]

https://youtu.be/N80gHthqo_o

GREAT video of Jalen showcasing his ability to guard perimeter players. There are for sure areas of improvement, but in my opinion I think they are fixable. I especially like the last play.
Sugus objective timvp

I've only watched 2 full games.

I like him, but I don't think I love him. I don't think he's switchable against NBA rotation players. Some of his college switches, I think he was lucky to be going against college nobodies. I like the shooting, it's pretty balanced and consistent and I see it translating. The blocks are nice. I do think he moves like he has a rod in his spine, kind of a stiff backed gait.

Bleacher Report's Jon Wasserman moved Smith up to 13 in his latest big board from the end of August (and moving Williams to 8). Both I think he mentioned was due to intel from scouts he talked to.

I think Smith is more of a lock to make it in the NBA than Precious, Smith just has a more mature game. Shooting, IQ, attentive effort. He's where people hope Precious gets to in those areas.

But I do think Precious might have a higher ceiling, though a small chance to get there. I think Precious' athleticism pops more, things come easier to him. Faster and more explosive. But Precious is more likely to be flaming out as a minimum or bi-annual exception guy like Cauley-Stein or Noel.

One question about Smith I would have is, does he pass the Trey Lyles Test? If he were drafted, would he take minutes from Lyles in year one? Would he ever be better? What does he do better than Lyles who is a blandly average PF who can kind of score, kind of shoot, kind of move his feet, etc etc.

As a comparison, I think Samanic fails the Lyles test and won't pass it any time soon or ever. I do think Smith or Precious or Williams would be well ahead of Samanic.

[objective]

I've been getting lower on Okoro.

And I think it's because of how hyped he is a defender who doesn't get big steals or blocks and presently can't shoot.

And I think Dort is the one who kind of convinced me.

Basically, 6-5, 6-4, 6-3 guys who are strong and can defend can be had easy, you don't have to spend a lottery pick on them. Dort, Roberson, Thybulle, PJ Tucker, Beverly, Derrick White.

But you draft a defender like Okoro in the lottery and he only defends and plays in transition, you have MKG or Stanley Johnson.

I would rank Okoro and his fake height under Williams, under Vassell.

[DAF86]

So, I finally got around to seeing some Jalen Smith. Looks like yet another guy whose main/best position in today's NBA would be center. He moves his feet a little but not to hang with the 3.5 guys that play the 4 on the NBA on a consistent basis.

He could be a solid contributor but, as many already know, I'm on the "sign a true wing" wagon.

P/S: He really needs to start doing some leg reps. I don't know if the black tights gave me an optic ilussion but those twik legs looked like they were about to snap at any minute.

[Dejounte]

I've only watched 2 full games.

I like him, but I don't think I love him. I don't think he's switchable against NBA rotation players. Some of his college switches, I think he was lucky to be going against college nobodies. I like the shooting, it's pretty balanced and consistent and I see it translating. The blocks are nice. I do think he moves like he has a rod in his spine, kind of a stiff backed gait.

Bleacher Report's Jon Wasserman moved Smith up to 13 in his latest big board from the end of August (and moving Williams to 8). Both I think he mentioned was due to intel from scouts he talked to.

I think Smith is more of a lock to make it in the NBA than Precious, Smith just has a more mature game. Shooting, IQ, attentive effort. He's where people hope Precious gets to in those areas.

But I do think Precious might have a higher ceiling, though a small chance to get there. I think Precious' athleticism pops more, things come easier to him. Faster and more explosive. But Precious is more likely to be flaming out as a minimum or bi-annual exception guy like Cauley-Stein or Noel.

One question about Smith I would have is, does he pass the Trey Lyles Test? If he were drafted, would he take minutes from Lyles in year one? Would he ever be better? What does he do better than Lyles who is a blandly average PF who can kind of score, kind of shoot, kind of move his feet, etc etc.

As a comparison, I think Samanic fails the Lyles test and won't pass it any time soon or ever. I do think Smith or Precious or Williams would be well ahead of Samanic.

Thanks for your insight, and I hope you find time to watch some more.

In my opinion, he passes the Lyles test. For one, Smith's college numbers blow Trey's out of the water. He's already a way better shot blocker and provides some physical presence (not a super strong one), while Trey provides zero.

I agree with your thoughts about Precious possibly having a higher ceiling, with a lower chance to reach it.

Regarding your opinion on him being poor on switchability, I disagree and think maybe we have to wait and see...

[Dejounte]

So, I finally got around to seeing some Jalen Smith. Looks like yet another guy whose main/best position in today's NBA would be center. He moves his feet a little but not to hang with the 3.5 guys that play the 4 on the NBA on a consistent basis.

He could be a solid contributor but, as many already know, I'm on the "sign a true wing" wagon.

P/S: He really needs to start doing some leg reps. I don't know if the black tights gave me an optic ilussion but those twik legs looked like they were about to snap at any minute.

In your world, everyone is a center...

CEo6_B6IqKX

CAfpJaTnHG-

[DAF86]

In your world, everyone is a center...

CEo6_B6IqKX

I love how objective pretty much said the same thing as me (actually he seems to have even less faith on Smith's mobility than me) yet he gets a "disagree" while I get a sassy comment :lol.

I'm curious son, where this animosity towards me started? I know I bullshit around too much and come across as a smartass douchebag sometimes, but I never felt this level of resentment from an internet poster before, tbh. :lol

Even with posters I constantly have beef with, we still mostly do it in clear internet trolling ways. :lol

Getting back on topic: no, not everyone is a center to me. Williams isn't a center. Bey isn't a center. Nesmith isn't a center. Vassell isn't a center. Pokusevski isn't a center. Achiuwa and Smith I have a feeling will be on the NBA. Smith more so, imho.

Do you really see Smith following guys like Lebron, Kawhi and Durant around and playing them one-on-one on the perimeter? I really don't. I also don't see him as the ball-handler on pick and rolls or breaking his guy down on one-on-one situations on the perimeter. Those are the type of things that people should be looking at when projecting if a guy can play on the perimeter in the NBA, and they really aren't very hard to predict, tbh. Mobility on the perimeter isn't really something that sees much improvement (if any at all) from college to the pros.

[Dejounte]

I love how objective pretty much said the same thing as me (actually he seems to have even less faith on Smith's mobility than me) yet he gets a "disagree" while I get a sassy comment :lol.

I'm curious son, where this animosity towards me started? I know I bullshit around too much and come across as a smartass douchebag sometimes, but I never felt this level of resentment from an internet poster before, tbh. :lol

Even with posters I constantly have beef with, we still mostly do it in clear internet trolling ways. :lol

Getting back on topic: no, not everyone is a center to me. Williams isn't a center. Bey isn't a center. Nesmith isn't a center. Vassell isn't a center. Pokusevski isn't a center. Achiuwa and Smith I have a feeling will be on the NBA. Smith more so, imho.

Do you really see Smith following guys like Lebron, Kawhi and Durant around and playing them one-on-one on the perimeter? I really don't. I also don't see him as the ball-handler on pick and rolls or breaking his guy down on one-on-one situations on the perimeter. Those are the type of things that people should be looking at when projecting if a guy can play on the perimeter in the NBA, and they really aren't very hard to predict, tbh. Mobility on the perimeter isn't really something that sees much improvement (if any at all) from college to the pros.

What is this bullshit rant? Lmfao

The difference between objective and you is him watching tape about players is way more believable. The takes you have are so vanilla and sounds like from a guy who read something online. Maybe provide more of a detailed input? I don't fucking know.

I'm not projecting Jalen as a perimeter guy. He's a stretch 4 who can attack close outs. It's literally what Trey does right now (without the interior D and O that Jalen would also provide). I have faith he can develop more than just that, but thats another story and an opinion you and others may not share.

I don't know why you dont fucking consider Poku as a center, because he sure as hell wont be able to guard LeBron, Kawhi, and Durant. (Kawhi rarely plays the 4 so not sure why he was included here.) Before you mention that its because of his offense, that's not what dictates what position he plays. Teams (especially the Spurs) put players out there who can match up with the other team on defense. You really think Pop is going to put out Poetl and Poku together on the court? The fuck is wrong with you? That's like two traffic cones against perimeter players.

[BackHome]

Have to disagree I don’t think he is a Center at all can he play it in small ball yeah but he is a PF who can play a little at SF. Now Precious is a Center who can play PF very different players who can do things the other one can’t. What I like about Smith is he can play good defense and also good offense and the kid has that desire to get better and yeah he has skinny legs he kinda reminds me of a shorter David Robinson he is in my top 3 players.

[Dejounte]

Have to disagree I don’t think he is a Center at all can he play it in small ball yeah but he is a PF who can play a little at SF. Now Precious is a Center who can play PF very different players who can do things the other one can’t. What I like about Smith is he can play good defense and also good offense and the kid has that desire to get better and yeah he has skinny legs he kinda reminds me of a shorter David Robinson he is in my top 3 players.

Somewhat agree.

On offense, he'll be like Trey Lyles. He won't hover around at the 3 point line as much as Trey-- he can switch it up and play inside as well. He has the strength and skill to do it.

On defense, I say
10% on SFs (closeouts and occasional switch)
60% on PFs
30% on Cs (when opposing teams play small ball)

Yeah, there will be a learning curve against more mobile PFs like Siakam. That's the gamble. But against the spot up stretch PFs? Like Michael Porter Jr? Like Marcus Morris? Like Jae Crowder? Do guys really think these guys are fast and require a lot of lateral quickness to guard? Hell yeah, I think he can handle those guys easily.

[objective]

I love how objective pretty much said the same thing as me (actually he seems to have even less faith on Smith's mobility than me) yet he gets a "disagree" while I get a sassy comment :lol.

I'm curious son, where this animosity towards me started? I know I bullshit around too much and come across as a smartass douchebag sometimes, but I never felt this level of resentment from an internet poster before, tbh. :lol

Even with posters I constantly have beef with, we still mostly do it in clear internet trolling ways. :lol

Getting back on topic: no, not everyone is a center to me. Williams isn't a center. Bey isn't a center. Nesmith isn't a center. Vassell isn't a center. Pokusevski isn't a center. Achiuwa and Smith I have a feeling will be on the NBA. Smith more so, imho.

Do you really see Smith following guys like Lebron, Kawhi and Durant around and playing them one-on-one on the perimeter? I really don't. I also don't see him as the ball-handler on pick and rolls or breaking his guy down on one-on-one situations on the perimeter. Those are the type of things that people should be looking at when projecting if a guy can play on the perimeter in the NBA, and they really aren't very hard to predict, tbh. Mobility on the perimeter isn't really something that sees much improvement (if any at all) from college to the pros.

FWIW, I think Dejounte's and my back-and-forths are so calm because when I label the number of games I've seen and how I label them "only 2 full games" then it's probably easier to discuss the elements of the conversation.

When I emphasize that it's only 2 games of Smith that I watched, I am implicitly admitting that he may have looked great switching in the other 20+ games he played. All I am judging is 2 games and projecting from that, and that's not a lot. So I put out there the weakness in my evaluations and we can go from there rather than me declaring, "this guy sucks cuz I said so".

For the record, the 2 games I watched were 03/08 Michigan and 02/29 Michigan State. I have another 20 games dvr'd I just find Big 10 basketball even more dull than usual for college basketball.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I think Smith might have looked even better this season if his teammates would pass him the ball. Must have been 3 times if not more in that State he hustled himself into perfect position for the feed to a dunk and those other terps couldn't or wouldn't pass him the ball. One time really pissed me off after he had a great block then ran his ass down in transition only for the guard to puke up a layup attempt.

[Dejounte]

FWIW, I think Dejounte's and my back-and-forths are so calm because when I label the number of games I've seen and how I label them "only 2 full games" then it's probably easier to discuss the elements of the conversation.

When I emphasize that it's only 2 games of Smith that I watched, I am implicitly admitting that he may have looked great switching in the other 20+ games he played. All I am judging is 2 games and projecting from that, and that's not a lot. So I put out there the weakness in my evaluations and we can go from there rather than me declaring, "this guy sucks cuz I said so".

For the record, the 2 games I watched were 03/08 Michigan and 02/29 Michigan State. I have another 20 games dvr'd I just find Big 10 basketball even more dull than usual for college basketball.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I think Smith might have looked even better this season if his teammates would pass him the ball. Must have been 3 times if not more in that State he hustled himself into perfect position for the feed to a dunk and those other terps couldn't or wouldn't pass him the ball. One time really pissed me off after he had a great block then ran his ass down in transition only for the guard to puke up a layup attempt.

Or "this guy is good cuz I said so". He makes stupid definitive statements. He has slightly improved, but I'm not sure if it's coincidental.

Your insight such as your last paragraph is why it is easy to respect you.

[mo7888]

I've been getting lower on Okoro.

And I think it's because of how hyped he is a defender who doesn't get big steals or blocks and presently can't shoot.

And I think Dort is the one who kind of convinced me.

Basically, 6-5, 6-4, 6-3 guys who are strong and can defend can be had easy, you don't have to spend a lottery pick on them. Dort, Roberson, Thybulle, PJ Tucker, Beverly, Derrick White.

But you draft a defender like Okoro in the lottery and he only defends and plays in transition, you have MKG or Stanley Johnson.

I would rank Okoro and his fake height under Williams, under Vassell.

I'm 100% with you on Okoro... you can get a late 1st (maybe even our #41) and get a physical athlete like Woodard who can defend 3 or 4 positions and catch and shoot 3's. That's better value and let's you use #11 elsewhere.

[look_at_g_shred]

https://youtu.be/cDy2bDaiT3c

Some footage here I haven't seen anywhere else.
Nice!

[DAF86]

What is this bullshit rant? Lmfao

The difference between objective and you is him watching tape about players is way more believable. The takes you have are so vanilla and sounds like from a guy who read something online. Maybe provide more of a detailed input? I don't fucking know.

I'm not projecting Jalen as a perimeter guy. He's a stretch 4 who can attack close outs. It's literally what Trey does right now (without the interior D and O that Jalen would also provide). I have faith he can develop more than just that, but thats another story and an opinion you and others may not share.

I don't know why you dont fucking consider Poku as a center, because he sure as hell wont be able to guard LeBron, Kawhi, and Durant. (Kawhi rarely plays the 4 so not sure why he was included here.) Before you mention that its because of his offense, that's not what dictates what position he plays. Teams (especially the Spurs) put players out there who can match up with the other team on defense. You really think Pop is going to put out Poetl and Poku together on the court? The fuck is wrong with you? That's like two traffic cones against perimeter players.

Poku's lateral quickness and overall mobility isn't by any means worse than that of Smith or Achiuwa, tbh. If you think that then you need to go back to watching some more Poku's games. But the main difference comes from the fact that Pokusevski's role on the NBA wouldn't be stopping the Lebrons and Kawhis of the league. If he pans out, he will be mainly an offensive walking mismatch that projects to be a primary ball handler. On defense he would be often put on the less offensive gifted forward of the opposition and would work his ability as a disruptive off ball defender.

You may say "well, Smith and Achiuwa's role wouldn't be to guard the Lebrons and Kawhis" to which my answer would be: what's their value as forwards then? If you aren't projected to be a primary playmaker (like a Pokusevski is projected to be at his ideal development) and you aren't projected to be able to guard the opposition's best forward (like a Williams or a Bey could do) then what's your role? You aren't neither a primary offensive option nor a defensive stopper. Who are the forwards, that can't do any of these things, that have a significant role in today's NBA?

Regarding you not beliving me watching tape, then I don't know what to tell you. I provided an extended in-depth analysis of Pokusevski, if you want to believe I made all of that up without watching the full games then it's just further prove that you have some irrational dislike for me and will continue acting like a third grader when adressing me, tbh.

[DAF86]

Or "this guy is good cuz I said so". He makes stupid definitive statements. He has slightly improved, but I'm not sure if it's coincidental.

Your insight such as your last paragraph is why it is easy to respect you.

Find one instance of me saying something like that. :lol

[Dejounte]

Poku's lateral quickness and overall mobility isn't by any means worse than that of Smith or Achiuwa, tbh. If you think that then you need to go back to watching some more Poku's games. But the main difference comes from the fact that Pokusevski's role on the NBA wouldn't be stopping the Lebrons and Kawhis of the league. If he pans out, he will be mainly an offensive walking mismatch that projects to be a primary ball handler. On defense he would be often put on the less offensive gifted forward of the opposition and would work his ability as a disruptive off ball defender.

You may say "well, Smith and Achiuwa's role wouldn't be to guard the Lebrons and Kawhis" to which my answer would be: what's their value as forwards then? If you aren't projected to be a primary playmaker (like a Pokusevski is projected to be at his ideal development) and you aren't projected to be able to guard the opposition's best forward (like a Williams or a Bey could do) then what's your role? You aren't neither a primary offensive option nor a defensive stopper. Who are the forwards, that can't do any of these things, that have a significant role in today's NBA?

Regarding you not beliving me watching tape, then I don't know what to tell you. I provided an extended in-depth analysis of Pokusevski, if you want to believe I made all of that up without watching the full games then it's just further prove that you have some irrational dislike for me and will continue acting like a third grader when adressing me, tbh.

There's holes in your argument that I will address later (and some I already addressed in the same post you quoted)

Don't make third grade analysis if you don't want to be addressed like a third grader.

[Dejounte]

Find one instance of me saying something like that. :lol

Obviously not word for word. Just read your fucking posts. Even Chinook wanted to call it out.

[DAF86]

Obviously not word for word. Just read your fucking posts. Even Chinook wanted to call it out.

Give me one example, tbh.

[Dejounte]

Give me one example, tbh.

Later when I get home

[R. DeMurre]

Interesting to see from an assessment standpoint where different scouts and talent evaluators (spurstalk posters included) draw the line at future production predictions. I remember last year, after Brandon Clarke measured out with a much smaller wingspan and standing reach than expected, many immediately rang the death knoll and said he was done. I found his advanced stats (and energy) to be too impressive (second best in the draft, after only Zion) and thought he'd still figure out a way to produce, thinking of guys like Draymond Green and also of Zion, who himself had shorter than typical measurements for typical PFs or centers. As time goes by, I find I lean more towards a balance of advanced stats & eye tests. DeMar DeRozan passes the eye test-- his moves in the paint, his footwork, the assists & rebounds along with the points, all impressive-- but in his case advanced stats tell the more complete story.

[Dejounte]

Interesting to see from an assessment standpoint where different scouts and talent evaluators (spurstalk posters included) draw the line at future production predictions. I remember last year, after Brandon Clarke measured out with a much smaller wingspan and standing reach than expected, many immediately rang the death knoll and said he was done. I found his advanced stats (and energy) to be too impressive (second best in the draft, after only Zion) and thought he'd still figure out a way to produce, thinking of guys like Draymond Green and also of Zion, who himself had shorter than typical measurements for typical PFs or centers. As time goes by, I find I lean more towards a balance of advanced stats & eye tests. DeMar DeRozan passes the eye test-- his moves in the paint, his footwork, the assists & rebounds along with the points, all impressive-- but in his case advanced stats tell the more complete story.

So what are the advanced stats and your eye test telling you about current prospects?

[Chinook]

So ESPN is apparently saying that GS wants to trade 2 for Smart but Boston doesn't think it's enough. Obviously it's ESPN we're talking about, but are folks really convinced the Spurs can't get up to 2 from 11 if that's really the kind of market we're seeing?

[spurspl]

So ESPN is apparently saying that GS wants to trade 2 for Smart but Boston doesn't think it's enough. Obviously it's ESPN we're talking about, but are folks really convinced the Spurs can't get up to 2 from 11 if that's really the kind of market we're seeing?

espn is high or wut? it doesnt make any sense

[Seventyniner]

espn is high or wut? it doesnt make any sense

Agree. Boston really wouldn't give up Smart for the #2 pick? And that's all GS would want?? Gay + #11 already blows that deal out of the water.

Salary matching becomes a problem too. Perhaps GS is insisting on attaching Wiggins to any deal involving the #2 pick. They have almost no medium-level salaries to send out. It would have to be something like Draymond + Wiggins + #2 for Hayward + Smart, and it would be almost a straight salary dump on GS's part.

[BackHome]

It’s not worth to move up to number 2 in this draft would cost way to much and would not get a good return on investment.

[DAF86]

It’s not worth to move up to number 2 in this draft would cost way to much and would not get a good return on investment.

Agreed. There's a reason the Warriors are trying to trade down.

[talkspurs]

I would do an aldridge or DDR for #2 AND Wiggins. If they wanted would even throw in lonnie. Dont think I would include our pick or an of the other young guys. I would rather give them DDR. I think Wiggins is finally starting to become a better player would fill the SF spot. Would hurt our capspace for next year but I would be fine with it. If we could get a big (wiseman) then that could replace aldridge and give us lots of young guys for us to see who works.

[talkspurs]

Depends on what it cost. Also depends on how you look at it. You could still get god value for it by moving up. Until you know what the details are it is hard to tell.

[DAF86]

I would much rather trade 11 for Boston's two first round picks than for any higher pick.

[JuneJive]

Draft is postponed. Yaaaaawn.

[exstatic]

Wiggins is a complete dumbass. I don’t care if he can jump out of the gym.

So, let me get this straight. For a complete disaster of a season, netting them the #2 pick, plus trading KD, netting DLo, and flipping him for Wiggins, GS winds up with Marcus Smart?

[exstatic]

I would much rather trade 11 for Boston's two first round picks than for any higher pick.

They have three, but if you’re talking about 14 and 26, then yes.

[DAF86]

They have three, but if you’re talking about 14 and 26, then yes.

Yeah, those two. That would allow us to get two of Spurstalk favourite prospects, to see if at least one pans out.

[DAF86]

11 and whoever Boston wants from Aldridge, DeRozan and/or Murray for 14, 26 (maybe even the other first rounder) and whoever makes the salaries work (Hayward?).

Before saying Boston wouldn't go for it, just keep in mind that Boston would be getting the higher pick and the best player in the trade.

[talkspurs]

just the 11 should be enough for the 14th and 26. Yes 3 spots in the lottery could cost that much when looking at picks.

[rankingtear]

We'll its pretty obvious to the league Golden State don't want to pay 8 mil for a rookie. They have unusually high tons of leaks already on the prospects they like (smokescreens), probably to lessen the backlash from fans of trading that pick.

[DAF86]

just the 11 should be enough for the 14th and 26. Yes 3 spots in the lottery could cost that much when looking at picks.

Not in this draft, imho. Mavs only needed to give a second rounder to get Luka, tbh.

[Seventyniner]

Wiggins is a complete dumbass. I don’t care if he can jump out of the gym.

So, let me get this straight. For a complete disaster of a season, netting them the #2 pick, plus trading KD, netting DLo, and flipping him for Wiggins, GS winds up with Marcus Smart?

GS also gets Minnesota's first in 2021 (top 1-3 protected) or 2022 (unprotected, if they don't get it in 2021).

I can't say I'm overwhelmed with the haul, but they got something instead of nothing for Durant, took on a horrible contract to get an extra pick which should be pretty good, and got the #2 pick this year. On top of still having the Curry/Thompson/Green core, I'd say they've done alright.

But they should be able to get way more than Smart for the #2 pick.

[talkspurs]

Yes this draft that should be enough. the 26th is a low first rounder. 1st rd picks are traded for 2 all the time.

[talkspurs]

Not in this draft, imho. Mavs only needed to give a second rounder to get Luka, tbh.

They gave up a pick 2 spots later and another 1st rd pick.

[DAF86]

Yes this draft that should be enough. the 26th is a low first rounder. 1st rd picks are traded for 2 all the time.

If most of us want to get 14 and 26 for 11, what makes you think Boston would be so willing to give that up straight up? This draft has no surefire prospect, but has a lot of interesting middle to late first round prospects. Quantity > Quality on this draft. The more picks you get, the more likely you are to get at least one that sticks.

[Spurtacular]

More times than not, there is a top five level player who has been passed on available at 11. Sure hope the Spurs identify it.

[talkspurs]

If most of us want to get 14 and 26 for 11, what makes you think Boston would be so willing to give that up straight up? This draft has no surefire prospect, but has a lot of interesting middle to late first round prospects. Quantity > Quality on this draft. The more picks you get, the more likely you are to get at least one that sticks.

Because 26th is not that high. While aldridge/DDR are not people that I want, you are saying they are worth less then the 26th pick. Since the 11th is more then the 14th. Look at past drafts these picks would be about what they have gone for. strong or weak draft.

If boston would give you the 26th pick for aldridge would you do that straight up? If you say no that is not enough for him then that shows you why they would do it. Moving up still has value. They also would be hard for them to keep al 3 players so they could get a better pick by giving up 2 and still have a pick left over. Hill got 2 picks 15th and 41st I believe and he is not the same player as any of these.

[DAF86]

Because 26th is not that high. While aldridge/DDR are not people that I want, you are saying they are worth less then the 26th pick. Since the 11th is more then the 14th. Look at past drafts these picks would be about what they have gone for. strong or weak draft.

If boston would give you the 26th pick for aldridge would you do that straight up? If you say no that is not enough for him then that shows you why they would do it. Moving up still has value. They also would be hard for them to keep al 3 players so they could get a better pick by giving up 2 and still have a pick left over. Hill got 2 picks 15th and 41st I believe and he is not the same player as any of these.

The trade wouldn't be Aldridge for 26 straight up though. It would need to add a player. I would do Aldridge for 26 and Hayward in a second, tbh. Actually, I would do Aldridge for 26 and pretty much any Celtics player.

[talkspurs]

The trade wouldn't be Aldridge for 26 straight up though. It would need to add a player. I would do Aldridge for 26 and Hayward in a second, tbh. Actually, I would do Aldridge for 26 and pretty much any Celtics player.

Then your still doing an 11 for 14 and 26 and then the player for player trade. you can try and put it together but the 11th by itself would be enough to get 14 and 26. ONly player it could be would be haywood unless we are getting a bunch of players back.

[gambit1990]

i wonder who okc will draft with the #11 pick.

[DAF86]

Then your still doing an 11 for 14 and 26 and then the player for player trade. you can try and put it together but the 11th by itself would be enough to get 14 and 26. ONly player it could be would be haywood unless we are getting a bunch of players back.

Nope, because Aldridge and Hayward don't have the same value as players.

Aldridge to me has slightly more value than Hayward (or considerable more value, but I don't really care for any player right now).

And also to me, 14 and 26 have slightly more value than 11.

That's why Aldridge + 11 for Hayward +14 and 26 would be a somewhat reasonable starting point of conversation. Then you add or substract depending on negotiations.

[spurspl]

i really like the idea of tradin down with boston but im not so sure bout hayward. Hes a fking glass, can break any time. Maybe he can be valuable but it depends on how much he will be willing to get paid (sign&trade bc hes a PO right now i guess?). Bc that kind of deal he has now (~35ml per yr) thats waaay too much. LMA>Hayward.

im more leaning toward a trade up with GSW, even if it means takin Wiggins but imo other teams can offer a better deal than the spurs.

[exstatic]

i wonder who okc will draft with the #11 pick.

How would they get our pick?

[Seventyniner]

How would they get our pick?

As part of the Chris Paul trade, duh.

[exstatic]

As part of the Chris Paul trade, duh.

Oh, that. Hopefully not. He’d elevate us to the playoffs, but even surrounded by some young talent, couldn’t lead OKC past a flawed Rockets team. That team would plateau as a first round out, and you be stuck with CP3s next two years at $85M, with no way to improve.

[Sugus]

CP3 is Milwaukee-bound. Bucks are absolutely going all-in next year after this embarrassing loss and Giannis still not outright demanding a trade, they need a PG/floor general to set up their many shooters since Giannis as a point-forward has been exposed as flawed, and they have the assets to make a trade with OKC interesting. It's a lose/lose situation for the Bucks, since they know they won't win next year whilst staying put, and won't trade Giannis for picks and a rebuild for obvious reasons, but if they trade for CP3 and still don't ring, they'll be in cap hell for some years while losing Giannis for nothing.

[DAF86]

CP3 is Milwaukee-bound. Bucks are absolutely going all-in next year after this embarrassing loss and Giannis still not outright demanding a trade, they need a PG/floor general to set up their many shooters since Giannis as a point-forward has been exposed as flawed, and they have the assets to make a trade with OKC interesting. It's a lose/lose situation for the Bucks, since they know they won't win next year whilst staying put, and won't trade Giannis for picks and a rebuild for obvious reasons, but if they trade for CP3 and still don't ring, they'll be in cap hell for some years while losing Giannis for nothing.

That would actually be a good fit as long as OKC takes on Bledsoe, tbh.

[DAF86]

Then the Bucks would need to add someone like Reddick and/or Bertans and they would be making a major improvement and maximizing their championship aspirations.

CP3, Reddick, Middleton, Giannis, López

Hill, Bertans, whoever

If they don't at least make the finals that way, then they really need to blow it up.

[TD 21]

Hopefully the Bucks beat out the 76ers and whoever else for Paul. Not only the best fit but the only realistic chance at a championship, which should pave the way for Antetokounmpo to re-sign.

To the agenda driven media's chagrin, the league needs it and fans of small/non glamor markets should want to see it because if another superstar on an elite team leaves, what's the point of having teams in roughly 20 markets at that point? They'd basically be feeder systems.

[gambit1990]

bucks are flat out STUPID for not trading for cp3. all last season i said that's what they should do.

getting worse after last year :lol
thinking you could win a chip with bledsoe and hill :lol:lol
bucks :lol
atlanta hawks 2.0 :lol

[BackHome]

They need to go all in cause they Probably going t loose G off they don’t win and then it will be another 20 to be contenders again.

[timvp]

The more playoff games I watch, the more convinced I am that size doesn't matter anymore in the NBA. For example, in yesterday's NBA you'd say a lineup of White, Murray, Walker, Johnson and random 6-foot-9 player is too small. Now? It's actually kinda big, tbh. :lol

And if size doesn't matter, some of these combo guards suddenly look more draftable for the Spurs. Hmmm...

[BackHome]

Dude don't say that word I hate it Combo Guard........Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooo.

[TD 21]

The more playoff games I watch, the more convinced I am that size doesn't matter anymore in the NBA. For example, in yesterday's NBA you'd say a lineup of White, Murray, Walker, Johnson and random 6-foot-9 player is too small. Now? It's actually kinda big, tbh. :lol

And if size doesn't matter, some of these combo guards suddenly look more draftable for the Spurs. Hmmm...

If you're referring to the Celtics, they're loaded with big wings, which is why they can get away with being small in the middle. The Spurs' best perimeter players are big for guards but small for wings.

The Raptors have replaced the Warriors as the luckiest team in the league and pulled another game out of their ass. They also have the rare small guards who aren't defensive liabilities.

[timvp]

Dude don't say that word I hate it Combo Guard........Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooo.

The meltdown would be pretty funny if the Spurs pick a 6-foot-4 combo guard, tbh :lol

[spurspl]

Dude don't say that word I hate it Combo Guard........Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooo.

i think we need a COMBO FORWARD, who can play a SF/PF and a C :)))

[Dejounte]

The more playoff games I watch, the more convinced I am that size doesn't matter anymore in the NBA. For example, in yesterday's NBA you'd say a lineup of White, Murray, Walker, Johnson and random 6-foot-9 player is too small. Now? It's actually kinda big, tbh. :lol

And if size doesn't matter, some of these combo guards suddenly look more draftable for the Spurs. Hmmm...


https://media.tenor.com/images/ee5085b5c4b4d7fc1a854734c03d9756/tenor.gif
https://media.tenor.com/images/ee5085b5c4b4d7fc1a854734c03d9756/tenor.gif
https://media.tenor.com/images/ee5085b5c4b4d7fc1a854734c03d9756/tenor.gif

[timvp]

If you're referring to the Celtics, they're loaded with big wings, which is why they can get away with being small in the middle. The Spurs' best perimeter players are big for guards but small for wings.

More so the Raptors, tbh. 5-foot-11 Lowry, 6-foot VanVleet, and 6-foot-1 Powell easily survived on defense. With the amount of help you provide now that every team has mastered zone tendencies and the the everlasting fact that small players are allowed to be more physical in the NBA, having midgets at 1, 2 and 3 is no longer a big deal. OKC had lineups where CP3 was basically at SF and 6-foot-2 Dort was at PF and they were fine.

[timvp]

https://media.tenor.com/images/ee5085b5c4b4d7fc1a854734c03d9756/tenor.gif
https://media.tenor.com/images/ee5085b5c4b4d7fc1a854734c03d9756/tenor.gif
https://media.tenor.com/images/ee5085b5c4b4d7fc1a854734c03d9756/tenor.gif

:lol

The league's changing, tbh. Keldon is starting to look like a big wing compared to the "small forwards" teams use nowadays. Even the Lakers were running lineups where Caruso was their nominal SF.

[Dejounte]

:lol

The league's changing, tbh. Keldon is starting to look like a big wing compared to the "small forwards" teams use nowadays. Even the Lakers were running lineups where Caruso was their nominal SF.

My only rebuttal to that is that the Spurs usually "zags" when the rest of the NBA "zigs".

It was the Spurs who paved the way to slow-it-down, tough defense, low scoring games of the 00's, before the Pistons and other teams started doing it.

It was the Spurs who paved the way to the "Beautiful Game", before the Warriors did it.

Now that everyone is moving towards small ball, I think the Spurs are going to do the opposite.

Let's remember... when Kawhi was here with Aldridge, we were the top at mid-range shooting. That was when it was considered "archaic" and no other team was doing it anymore. That was by design, not coincidence. The Spurs were trying to win by mid-range shooting (and obviously, other ways too). And they were going to go all the way with it had Kawhi had not gotten injured.

[TD 21]

More so the Raptors, tbh. 5-foot-11 Lowry, 6-foot VanVleet, and 6-foot-1 Powell easily survived on defense. With the amount of help you provide now that every team has mastered zone tendencies and the the everlasting fact that small players are allowed to be more physical in the NBA, having midgets at 1, 2 and 3 is no longer a big deal. OKC had lineups where CP3 was basically at SF and 6-foot-2 Dort was at PF and they were fine.

Powell is 6'3, but 215 with a 6'11'' wingspan. Lowry/VanVleet are tough, brick wall types, like Paul/Bledsoe.

The Thunder got away with that against the Rockets.

These are specific instances and if the Celtics don't lose their collective minds by zoning up the strong side and leaving a knockdown corner 3 shooter for a rhythm shot, this series is probably over in 5 and you're probably not saying this.

[DAF86]

The more playoff games I watch, the more convinced I am that size doesn't matter anymore in the NBA. For example, in yesterday's NBA you'd say a lineup of White, Murray, Walker, Johnson and random 6-foot-9 player is too small. Now? It's actually kinda big, tbh. :lol

And if size doesn't matter, some of these combo guards suddenly look more draftable for the Spurs. Hmmm...

Kawhi, Giannis, Lebron, Davis, Harden, Durant, Doncic, George, Tatum. All the best players still have above average size for their position. Size will always matter.

[DAF86]

More so the Raptors, tbh. 5-foot-11 Lowry, 6-foot VanVleet, and 6-foot-1 Powell easily survived on defense. With the amount of help you provide now that every team has mastered zone tendencies and the the everlasting fact that small players are allowed to be more physical in the NBA, having midgets at 1, 2 and 3 is no longer a big deal. OKC had lineups where CP3 was basically at SF and 6-foot-2 Dort was at PF and they were fine.

The Raptors are outliers. They play a defensive scheme that nobody else does in the league. They are pretty much always playing zone, so their midgets don't have to play much man to man. I honestly don't know how they are so good allowing the most open threes per game in the league. One would think it's luck, but two full seasons worth of luck is very unlikely. Other teams should start taking notes, tbh.

[DAF86]

:lol

The league's changing, tbh. Keldon is starting to look like a big wing compared to the "small forwards" teams use nowadays. Even the Lakers were running lineups where Caruso was their nominal SF.

That doesn't count when your nominal PG is Lebron, tbh. :lol

Kawhi, Lebron, Middleton, Butler, Brown/Tatum, Grant/Porter Jr, Anunoby. Those are the SF's of the best teams in the league. We need to get us one of those, tbh.

[ZeusWillJudge]

More so the Raptors, tbh. 5-foot-11 Lowry, 6-foot VanVleet, and 6-foot-1 Powell easily survived on defense. With the amount of help you provide now that every team has mastered zone tendencies and the the everlasting fact that small players are allowed to be more physical in the NBA, having midgets at 1, 2 and 3 is no longer a big deal. OKC had lineups where CP3 was basically at SF and 6-foot-2 Dort was at PF and they were fine.

I thought when PJ Washington showed up at the combine at 6'6.5" he was cooked. He went at #12 and had a hell of a rookie year as a PF. I think less than 1/4 of last year's draft class was over 6'8" and less than 1/4 was 6'3" or less. It's jam-packed at 6'5" - 6'6". The league really has changed that much.

But... you can't look at what is working in the league without also understanding why starting Bryn Forbes can't work and why he's a situational player at best. Murray has a perfect profile for a New NBA player, except he isn't a PG. Patty could survive at his size as a PG, but he isn't a PG and can't defend any position.

You can see why Keldon Johnson is looking so good - he's built for it, and he's not being asked to play out of position on the offensive end. You can play small, but you can't fake PG skills. That's why I keep saying that this team really needs to draft a point, or get one through a trade.

[timvp]

Powell is 6'3, but 215 with a 6'11'' wingspan. Still tiny for a 3.
Lowry/VanVleet are tough, brick wall types, like Paul/Bledsoe.Whichever one you consider the 2 is tiny.


The Thunder got away with that against the Rockets.The Thunder made the playoffs largely due to the success of their three point guard lineup of CP3, Schroder and SGA.


These are specific instances and if the Celtics don't lose their collective minds by zoning up the strong side and leaving a knockdown corner 3 shooter for a rhythm shot, this series is probably over in 5 and you're probably not saying this.Meh, the Celtics themselves are proof of the shrinking NBA. Walker, Smart, Brown, Tatum and Theis would be considered super small ball like two years ago. Now it's a regular lineup that no one even would second guess.

That's why, IMO, in the draft, you don't go out of your way to put together a roster that our grandfathers would approve of size-wise. Willing players in a well-designed scheme can survive against bigger players these days, as is becoming more and more obvious as the days pass.

[timvp]

That doesn't count when your nominal PG is Lebron, tbh. :lol The lineups I'm talking about have LeBron at PF and Davis at C, tbh.


Kawhi, Lebron, Middleton, Butler, Brown/Tatum, Grant/Porter Jr, Anunoby. Those are the SF's of the best teams in the league. We need to get us one of those, tbh.Don't disagree. However, these days -- more so than ever -- you can survive without a Long Three or a Big Wing or a Combo Forward or whatever vernacular you want to use.

Translating that observation to this draft thread, that means you don't take a Saddiq Bey for his size if there's a player who is 6-foot-4 or 6-foot-5 who you think is better.

[DAF86]

Still tiny for a 3. Whichever one you consider the 2 is tiny.

Powell's 6'11" > Keldon's 6'9"


Meh, the Celtics themselves are proof of the shrinking NBA. Walker, Smart, Brown, Tatum and Theis would be considered super small ball like two years ago. Now it's a regular lineup that no one even would second guess.

I think we would all be fine with a forward tandem of Brown and Tatum, tbh.


That's why, IMO, in the draft, you don't go out of your way to put together a roster that our grandfathers would approve of size-wise. Willing players in a well-designed scheme can survive against bigger players these days, as is becoming more and more obvious as the days pass.

Nobody is asking for grandfather size aproval. Just a couple 6'8" ish guys to play the forward positions, like every contender in the NBA does, tbh.

[timvp]

Powell's 6'11" > Keldon's 6'9"You measuring players by wingspan now? I guess Dejounte is 6-foot-11 too, now.


I think we would all be fine with a forward tandem of Brown and Tatum, tbh.Didn't say otherwise.


Nobody is asking for grandfather size aproval. Just a couple 6'8" ish guys to play the forward positions, like every contender in the NBA does, tbh.Agreed. That'd be nice. But isn't mandatory, tbh, IMO.

[DAF86]

The lineups I'm talking about have LeBron at PF and Davis at C, tbh.

Don't disagree. However, these days -- more so than ever -- you can survive without a Long Three or a Big Wing or a Combo Forward or whatever vernacular you want to use.

Translating that observation to this draft thread, that means you don't take a Saddiq Bey for his size if there's a player who is 6-foot-4 or 6-foot-5 who you think is better.

So your plan would be to play all of our 6'4", 6'5" guys together 1 through 4 during an entire season? Sorry, but I don't see that working. I guess under the right circumstances and with a lot of talent you might be able to be a playoffs team ala Thunder and Rockets, but you won't ever trully contend with a team built like that, imho.

[timvp]

but you won't ever trully contend with a team built like that, imho.

The Spurs aren't close enough to a championship level to draft through a "contend" lens, IMO. Sure, height is still preferred but the premium on height is vanishing by the day, so reaching for height no longer makes as much sense as it used to.

[DAF86]

You measuring players by wingspan now? I guess Dejounte is 6-foot-11 too, now.

Standing reach >= wingspan >> height

(Add some mass muscle somewhere in there too)


Agreed. That'd be nice. But isn't mandatory, tbh, IMO.

Sure, if you have a non-facor player like Lyles you might be better off starting someone like Keldon at PF over him and overall you should do better as a team. But when going up against a team that starts a player similar to Keldon in quality but that is 6'8" you will always be at a disadvantage.

The rule of always drafting the best talent available regardless of position (or in this case, size) is golden. So, you won't find anyone disagreeing with that. If the Spurs feel like a 6'4" guy is clearly the best player available, they should go for it without thinking twice. However, if it's close, size should be the deciding factor, tbh.

[timvp]

Standing reach >= wingspan >> height

(Add some mass muscle somewhere in there too)Funny you mention that because Keldon has a freakishly high standing reach for someone his height and his wingspan :lol


If the Spurs feel like a 6'4" guy is clearly the best player available, they should go for it without thinking twice. The SpursTalk meltdown if the Spurs draft a 6-foot-4 combo guard would be entertaining, tbh.

[DAF86]

Funny you mention that because Keldon has a freakishly high standing reach for someone his height and his wingspan :lol

What is it? I never heard/read of his standing reach, tbh.

The other components that play a factor in standing reach besides height and wingspan I suppose would be neck/head length and shoulder width. If you have a short neck/head, your height from shoulders to floor is relatively higher than your actual height; and if you have narrow shoulders, your standing reach should be longer than what your wingspan indicates.

It's weird though, because Keldon seems to have some wide ass shoulders, tbh.


The SpursTalk meltdown if the Spurs draft a 6-foot-4 combo guard would be entertaining, tbh.

And it would have me at the forefront, tbh. :lol

[spurspl]

Now that everyone is moving towards small ball, I think the Spurs are going to do the opposite.


id love to see this, white/murray/keldon and two high motor forwards with above average sizes and/or wingspan (like jalen or achiuwa). The key is to not have a slow center. This kind of lineup can be a smallball killer. During the whole yesterday game celtic vs raptors there was literally nobody in the paint in offense. Almost zero offensive rebounds. The missed shot = get your ass back to defense.

[RC_Drunkford]

What is it? I never heard/read of his standing reach, tbh.

The other components that play a factor in standing reach besides height and wingspan I suppose would be neck/head length and shoulder width. If you have a short neck/head, your height from shoulders to floor is relatively higher than your actual height; and if you have narrow shoulders, your standing reach should be longer than what your wingspan indicates.

It's weird though, because Keldon seems to have some wide ass shoulders, tbh.



And it would have me at the forefront, tbh. :lol

Keldon has a very short neck, which makes him seem smaller than what he actually is

[Chinook]

Keldon has a very short neck, which makes him seem smaller than what he actually is

Yeah, he basically has the body of a 6-7/6-8 player. It's not even like he has a long wingspan. If he were 6-8, his 6-9.5 wingspan wouldn't be impressive at all. That's how you know his body is weird. He has a SR comparable to a lot of PFs despite being the height of a two-guard and not particularly long.

[mo7888]

If we stay at 11 I think we've got to take BA regardless of size. I still prefer we trade. Move up for Obi or Wiseman if we can reasonably and if we can't trade down or trade to pick up an additional 1st. Draft Robert Woodard with that additional 1st. He's athletic and 6'7" with a great wingspan who can defend 4 positions and shoot the 3. He's exactly what we need in my mind. Then use 41 on Reed or Perry whoever is available. I think that sets us up to be versatile and still take advantage of small ball lineups.

[Dejounte]

If we stay at 11 I think we've got to take BA regardless of size. I still prefer we trade. Move up for Obi or Wiseman if we can reasonably and if we can't trade down or trade to pick up an additional 1st. Draft Robert Woodard with that additional 1st. He's athletic and 6'7" with a great wingspan who can defend 4 positions and shoot the 3. He's exactly what we need in my mind. Then use 41 on Reed or Perry whoever is available. I think that sets us up to be versatile and still take advantage of small ball lineups.

I think he will be there at 41.

White/ Murray/ Q
DeMar/ Lonnie/ Mills
Keldon/ Woodard
Smith/ Lyles/ Samanic
Aldridge/ Poetl/ Eubanks

[spurspl]

I think he will be there at 41.

White/ Murray/ Q
DeMar/ Lonnie/ Mills
Keldon/ Woodard
Smith/ Lyles/ Samanic
Aldridge/ Poetl/ Eubanks

woodard will be gone before 41th. But he can be replaced by Nwora who probably will be available. Im not a fan of LMA and/or DDR next year in spurs but even if they stay thats still a huge improvement compared to what we had in a regular season.

[XDT76]

I think he will be there at 41.

White/ Murray/ Q
DeMar/ Lonnie/ Mills
Keldon/ Woodard
Smith/ Lyles/ Samanic
Aldridge/ Poetl/ Eubanks

Seeing Gay is missing from your lineup maybe Gay and 41 for a low round 1 pick to pick up woodard. But I am not sure how the finance is gonna work.

[Dejounte]

For the Woodard fans:
https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1304088709227110400?s=19

mo7888

Keldon likes to hunt, too. Hmm...

[BackHome]

And his favorite color is Black so I think he would like to be in a Spurs Uniform the problem is trying to move up to draft to get him. Right now I am thinking he an early second maybe a late first round but who knows with this draft he could end up falling to us. I really like what he brings to the defensive side and he has worked really hard on his 3 ball after his first year so I think his stats will get better.

Wood, Keldon, White, Luka , Walker, Murray, Poodle - That’s a pretty decent blend of offense and defense capabilities right there.

[mo7888]

For the Woodard fans:
https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1304088709227110400?s=19

mo7888

Keldon likes to hunt, too. Hmm...

Good find! Thank you

[SpurPadre]

And his favorite color is Black so I think he would like to be in a Spurs Uniform the problem is trying to move up to draft to get him. Right now I am thinking he an early second maybe a late first round but who knows with this draft he could end up falling to us. I really like what he brings to the defensive side and he has worked really hard on his 3 ball after his first year so I think his stats will get better.

Wood, Keldon, White, Luka , Walker, Murray, Poodle - That’s a pretty decent blend of offense and defense capabilities right there.

Moving up to get him? Most places I've seen have him as a late second with some having him go undrafted. If anything, I don't see why we'd have to move up to get him.

[TD 21]

Still tiny for a 3. Whichever one you consider the 2 is tiny.

The Thunder made the playoffs largely due to the success of their three point guard lineup of CP3, Schroder and SGA.

Meh, the Celtics themselves are proof of the shrinking NBA. Walker, Smart, Brown, Tatum and Theis would be considered super small ball like two years ago. Now it's a regular lineup that no one even would second guess.

That's why, IMO, in the draft, you don't go out of your way to put together a roster that our grandfathers would approve of size-wise. Willing players in a well-designed scheme can survive against bigger players these days, as is becoming more and more obvious as the days pass.

Sure, but it depends on the matchups.

Partially true. They didn't lean heavily on it, plus they also led the league in "clutch time", which is statistically proven to be heavily based on luck. The Rockets were also missing their 2nd best player for much of the series.

Nah, it's more so a team playing by far their best five available players, but why does it work? Because they essentially have 2.5 big wings (Smart is short, but can credibly defend them).

You're taking small sample sizes, reading too much into coin flip situations and being prisoner of the moment.

Size on the wings is crucial. Do you pick Bey, for example over Nesmith strictly based on it? Of course not. But at some point, they have to address it.

[BackHome]

You could be correct but most drafts I have seen him have been early second before our pick. To be honest most mock drafts have been pretty weak I don’t think will see any changes until we get there measurements and then will see people rise and fall I am thinking he will be rising just a guess though.

[timvp]

The Thunder made the playoffs largely due to the success of their three point guard lineup of CP3, Schroder and SGA.


Partially true. They didn't lean heavily on it

Leaned on it pretty heavily, tbh. Tied for their most consistently utilized threesome and that trio was one of their top five trios minutes-wise in the fourth quarter. It had an ungodly net rating of +35 in fourth quarters, IIRC.


You're taking small sample sizes, reading too much into coin flip situations and being prisoner of the moment.Positionless basketball is obviously the future. Don't get stuck in grandpaball of the 2010s and earlier where players had to be certain heights in order to play certain positions. Today, you need some amount of talented height (which the Spurs admittedly lack) but as long as you can rebound and not get completely steamrolled in the lane, height doesn't matter as much as it used to.

[Sugus]

Leaned on it pretty heavily, tbh. Tied for their most consistently utilized threesome and that trio was one of their top five trios minutes-wise in the fourth quarter. It had an ungodly net rating of +35 in fourth quarters, IIRC.

Positionless basketball is obviously the future. Don't get stuck in grandpaball of the 2010s and earlier where players had to be certain heights in order to play certain positions. Today, you need some amount of talented height (which the Spurs admittedly lack) but as long as you can rebound and not get completely steamrolled in the lane, height doesn't matter as much as it used to.

Agree with this. Pretty crazy to think we might have actually already found our 3 of the future in Keldon... Though we definitely need some real size at the 4, a gritty defender that's a plus on offense but can stop or slow down the big wings of the league. If we draft Smith, I could see him being that guy on defense, not so sure on offense, but he could slide to the 5 there if we get a good sized wing/forward in the future.

What we lack isn't height per se. We lack real playmakers besides White (and DD who is not a long-term piece (hopefully)), and ball-handling at the wing. That's the future of the league - Boston IMO is the perfect blueprint for "team of the future". Gotta get ourselves a Tatum/Brown kinda player and we're pretty much set.

[TD 21]

Leaned on it pretty heavily, tbh. Tied for their most consistently utilized threesome and that trio was one of their top five trios minutes-wise in the fourth quarter. It had an ungodly net rating of +35 in fourth quarters, IIRC.

Positionless basketball is obviously the future. Don't get stuck in grandpaball of the 2010s and earlier where players had to be certain heights in order to play certain positions. Today, you need some amount of talented height (which the Spurs admittedly lack) but as long as you can rebound and not get completely steamrolled in the lane, height doesn't matter as much as it used to.

Could have swore I saw something a while back that they mostly saved it for "clutch time" in the regular season. As for the second part, that's naturally because they were in so many close games.

They don't have to be certain heights necessarily, but if they're going to be relatively short, then they need to make up for it with some or all of length, strength and athleticism. Guys like DeRozan and Johnson can't get by as starting nominal fours.

[Dejounte]

KD and Reddick discuss today's defensive schemes:

https://twitter.com/jj_redick/status/1304226867784880129?s=19

[pad300]

Positionless basketball is obviously the future. Don't get stuck in grandpaball of the 2010s and earlier where players had to be certain heights in order to play certain positions. Today, you need some amount of talented height (which the Spurs admittedly lack) but as long as you can rebound and not get completely steamrolled in the lane, height doesn't matter as much as it used to.

I'm not quite sure I buy this narrative. Consider tonight's LAL-HOU derby. The Lakers won, and they started the 3 biggest men on the court : Davis (7'), Lebron (6'9) and Markief Morris (6'8") (the other 2 LA starters were green 6'6" and KCP 6'5") ; the largest HOU starter was Covington at 6'7". The Lakers won handily...

[timvp]

I'm not quite sure I buy this narrative. Consider tonight's LAL-HOU derby. The Lakers won, and they started the 3 biggest men on the court : Davis (7'), Lebron (6'9) and Markief Morris (6'8") (the other 2 LA starters were green 6'6" and KCP 6'5") ; the largest HOU starter was Covington at 6'7". The Lakers won handily...

Tbh, the Lakers having two of the five best players in the league is the difference. Not their height advantage.

[XDT76]

Tbh, the Lakers having two of the five best players in the league is the difference. Not their height advantage.

Their height plays a part of them being top 5 player if they were 6ft5 their effectiveness would probably be at 70-80%

[mo7888]

I'm not quite sure I buy this narrative. Consider tonight's LAL-HOU derby. The Lakers won, and they started the 3 biggest men on the court : Davis (7'), Lebron (6'9) and Markief Morris (6'8") (the other 2 LA starters were green 6'6" and KCP 6'5") ; the largest HOU starter was Covington at 6'7". The Lakers won handily...

I agree with you myself. I don't see teams trotting out 5 little guys when Jokic is on the floor...or Embid...and even Adams had an effect on Houston at times. I get that most teams are going small but, I don't see those teams winning it all unless you have a KD level player (and he's right at 7' himself).

I like small lineups, they're fun to watch and they serve a purpose but I dont think they're better than a lineup with a skilled big. Admittedly there aren't many bigs that are skilled so the small lineups are born out of necessity and teams have to be versatile but, if you can get one...and you have a coach that knows how to use him, its an advantage.

[exstatic]

Their height plays a part of them being top 5 player if they were 6ft5 their effectiveness would probably be at 70-80%

Tell it to CP3 or Harden. They’re All NBA.

I think part of timvp’s point is that it’s ridiculous, in today’s NBA, for all of the posters who want to draft someone because they’re 6’8” or higher. Spurs draft BPA, and if that’s another 6’5” guard that they think is the best option, so be it.

[Chinook]

Tell it to CP3 or Harden. They’re All NBA.

I think part of timvp’s point is that it’s ridiculous, in today’s NBA, for all of the posters who want to draft someone because they’re 6’8” or higher. Spurs draft BPA, and if that’s another 6’5” guard that they think is the best option, so be it.

Yeah. If they need taller guys, that's what free agency is for. Need factors into draft boards, but it's not supposed to be a deal-breaker. Plus drafting another guard may lead to them trading one of the guards they have for something else. Two of the four most likely trade candidates are guards, and if even one of them goes, there are minutes for a new guy.

To add to timvp's point, I don't think he's talking about playing like Houston. Basically everyone should've noticed by now that the Rockets don't actually know how to put together a winning team. They keep trying to game the system, and the system keep bucking them. He's talking about the constant insistence on the part of some posters that guys like DeRozan and Johnson need to play SG because they aren't 6-8 and that smaller wings and guards would be useless on the team because they aren't forwards. SF in particular is a position where the team is decently set at, and folks keep trying to shove obvious bigs into that spot, making every other spot on the court worse for it.

Williams is a PF. No one cares about Precious' potential to play SF. Vassell/Neismith aren't bad picks because they're "more SGs" and drafting smaller players doesn't force Johson and DeRozan to play SF rather than their "natural position". All things equal, the taller player is probably the more impactful. But all things aren't equal, and there are factors that matter a lot more than an inch or two of height.

[SpursDynasty85]

Leaned on it pretty heavily, tbh. Tied for their most consistently utilized threesome and that trio was one of their top five trios minutes-wise in the fourth quarter. It had an ungodly net rating of +35 in fourth quarters, IIRC.

Positionless basketball is obviously the future. Don't get stuck in grandpaball of the 2010s and earlier where players had to be certain heights in order to play certain positions. Today, you need some amount of talented height (which the Spurs admittedly lack) but as long as you can rebound and not get completely steamrolled in the lane, height doesn't matter as much as it used to.

Having 3 pgs is fine when two of them are CP3 and Gilgeous plus Danilo and Adams are a great 4 and 5 with size and talent. We need a workhorse 4. Not sure if Trey is that guy. Luka is defjbitely not that guy.

[BackHome]

Spurs defense has been the worst in decades that and the lack of 3 point shooting is what is hurting this team. So it doesn’t matter what size just as long as they can defend get rebounds and be able to shoot the 3 that is what we need a plus it would be nice if they know how to dribble the damn ball. It still amazes me that there are guys in our team who can barely keep there dribble alive I mean shit we learned that in high school.

[Dejounte]

Chinook

I'm more inclined to change my stance on Vassell not being a bad pick if we didn't have a strength and toughness issue overall. If the bar for overall team height is lower due to where the league is progressing, that's fine. But this past season shows our overall toughness, grit, and strength was lacking, and was only truly shown by one player = Keldon Johnson.

That's why I'm more favorable towards players like Smith, Precious, Isaiah Stewart, Okoro (I know I'm missing a few other players).... Players who can hold their ground. Players who can be dogs on the court. That can be either from PF or C position, doesn't matter to me.

[pad300]

I agree with draft BPA (or a trade down for multiple picks) - we purely need talent. I'm just not sold on positionless small ball as the future. It's having a day in the sun now, because the current rules/ref's call favors it. That could change - there are plenty of people saying the 3 pt shot is too valuable/easy currently. But more to the point - look at the recent champions by minutes played their 8 or 9 man roations - TOR - Gasol+Valancuinas/Ibaka/Siakam are not small. GSW - Durant (6'11" + tall)/Pachulia CLE - Lebron/Love/Thompson/Mozgov; these teams aren't playing small ball. What they do have is high skill bigs.

[XDT76]

Tell it to CP3 or Harden. They’re All NBA.

I think part of timvp’s point is that it’s ridiculous, in today’s NBA, for all of the posters who want to draft someone because they’re 6’8” or higher. Spurs draft BPA, and if that’s another 6’5” guard that they think is the best option, so be it.

I am not saying shorter player is definitely worse off, but if Harden and Paul are a couple of inches taller they will probably be even more devastating. Talent and work ethics are probably 2 of the more impt points but if all else are equal height does gives them an advantage. Chris Paul probably could not do much to prevent Bertans from shooting a 3 as compared to Anthony Davis, at least in my opinion.

[Chinook]

I think people are trying to solve problems that don't exist. It doesn't matter if the Spurs can match up with LAL or LAC right now. They aren't good enough to even play those teams. Right now, the goal is to get two or three building blocks. At best White and Johnson are those guys, but the Spurs still need an ace above those guys. Getting that player is way more important than getting a James or Durant defender. They could prime Bowen himself and still not be a playoff team.

[poopbox]

Agree with this. Pretty crazy to think we might have actually already found our 3 of the future in Keldon... Though we definitely need some real size at the 4, a gritty defender that's a plus on offense but can stop or slow down the big wings of the league. If we draft Smith, I could see him being that guy on defense, not so sure on offense, but he could slide to the 5 there if we get a good sized wing/forward in the future.

What we lack isn't height per se. We lack real playmakers besides White (and DD who is not a long-term piece (hopefully)), and ball-handling at the wing. That's the future of the league - Boston IMO is the perfect blueprint for "team of the future". Gotta get ourselves a Tatum/Brown kinda player and we're pretty much set.

Well seeing as how both of those guys are top 3 picks you going to have to bottom out to get them. You are not going to find guys like that anywhere else. Are the spurs going to bottom out ? I have my doubts.

[poopbox]

I think people are trying to solve problems that don't exist. It doesn't matter if the Spurs can match up with LAL or LAC right now. They aren't good enough to even play those teams. Right now, the goal is to get two or three building blocks. At best White and Johnson are those guys, but the Spurs still need an ace above those guys. Getting that player is way more important than getting a James or Durant defender. They could prime Bowen himself and still not be a playoff team.

The only reason why they were not a playoff team this year is because they played Bryn and Marco to much. If they don't do anything else this year but not have those two on the team they will be back to being an 8 - 6 seed.

[exstatic]

The only reason why they were not a playoff team this year is because they played Bryn and Marco to much. If they don't do anything else this year but not have those two on the team they will be back to being an 8 - 6 seed.

Subtract Marco and Bryn, ramp up the minutes for the five first rounders in the last four years, and throw another first rounder on the stack.

[R. DeMurre]

Positionless basketball is obviously the future. Don't get stuck in grandpaball of the 2010s and earlier where players had to be certain heights in order to play certain positions. Today, you need some amount of talented height (which the Spurs admittedly lack) but as long as you can rebound and not get completely steamrolled in the lane, height doesn't matter as much as it used to.


I remember last year, you were pretty down on Brandon Clarke because his wingspan & standing reach measurements came in much smaller than expected. Iirc, you said he'd have a hard time competing because his measurements were similar to Danny Green's. If that draft could be redone, would you be much higher on Clarke now?

[Seventyniner]

I think people are trying to solve problems that don't exist. It doesn't matter if the Spurs can match up with LAL or LAC right now. They aren't good enough to even play those teams. Right now, the goal is to get two or three building blocks. At best White and Johnson are those guys, but the Spurs still need an ace above those guys. Getting that player is way more important than getting a James or Durant defender. They could prime Bowen himself and still not be a playoff team.

Trying to match up with the Lakers or Clippers is silly imo. The Spurs' window for "contention" (used very loosely) doesn't start until around 2023-2024. By then LeBron will likely be out of the league and the exhaustion of draft capital will make itself felt for both teams. The Rockets will likely also be similarly depleted and Harden will be 34.