If the Spurs draft 11th

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/1260294926367109120

[slick'81]

Cant wait for the draft in december

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/DWolfsonKSTP/status/1260377614717521920

[objective]

Hard to take the idea of Achiuwa at SF seriously when even his own assistant coach at Memphis compared him to Bam Adebayo and Montrezl Harrell.

[tim_duncan_fan]

https://twitter.com/DWolfsonKSTP/status/1260377614717521920

Is this guy a 6'5 guard or 6'8.75 center?

[Dejounte]

Hard to take the idea of Achiuwa at SF seriously when even his own assistant coach at Memphis compared him to Bam Adebayo and Montrezl Harrell.

Are you referring to the video with the assistant coach where afterwards he says he may even be Pascal Siakam? Lmao yall like to exclude info like that. Its ridiculous.

Btw, taking advice from Penny Hardaway as if hes some great coach? Let alone an assistant coach?

[exstatic]

Hard to take the idea of Achiuwa at SF seriously when even his own assistant coach at Memphis compared him to Bam Adebayo and Montrezl Harrell.

Hater! Watch the videos!!:lol

[Dejounte]

Hater! Watch the videos!!:lol

Lmfao doesnt even listen to full clip of the gotcha statement by objective. Blind sheep around here

[objective]

Are you referring to the video with the assistant coach where afterwards he says he may even be Pascal Siakam? Lmao yall like to exclude info like that. Its ridiculous.

Btw, taking advice from Penny Hardaway as if hes some great coach? Let alone an assistant coach?

I mentioned the first two guys that he had prepared for, Siakam was an afterthought for him.

And Siakam is a PF, lineup data doesn't lie.

And why the problem with him being compared to Siakam (max player), Adebayo (probably on his way to being a max player), and Harrell (going to get paid a lot and play a lot)?

His college assistant coach compared him to 3 guys that most if not every team would love to have and that's a problem because it's not at SF?

But speaking of videos, I'll watch him next, I only have 5 games though as Memphis wasn't on cable that much compared to many other teams.

So I'll load them up in the next couple of days and judge for myself.

I wasn't put off by the Williams hype other posters had before I watched him and the same will hold for my review of Achiuwa.

[Dejounte]

I mentioned the first two guys that he had prepared for, Siakam was an afterthought for him.

And Siakam is a PF, lineup data doesn't lie.

And why the problem with him being compared to Siakam (max player), Adebayo (probably on his way to being a max player), and Harrell (going to get paid a lot and play a lot)?

His college assistant coach compared him to 3 guys that most if not every team would love to have and that's a problem because it's not at SF?

But speaking of videos, I'll watch him next, I only have 5 games though as Memphis wasn't on cable that much compared to many other teams.

So I'll load them up in the next couple of days and judge for myself.

I wasn't put off by the Williams hype other posters had before I watched him and the same will hold for my review of Achiuwa.

Here's my point.

Just because a coach uses a player at PF or C, doesnt mean thats what he is suited for. Usually its the roster makeup of the team. I firmly believe Achiuwa was played as a big because no one else on the team could do it better than him. Now the assistant coach is babbling about players who play that position as if that is what he is confined to.

The Spurs have played Forbes at SF. Does that mean he is a SF? No.

Eye test clearly shows his game is of that of a SF/PF hybrid.

No, i dont mind if he gets compared to those players. But to confine him to those players and their style? I disagree. He has their strengths, sure. But I believe he can be much more, given his knack for playmaking and handling the ball in transition.

But hey, if teams have that view of him of being a Bam type and that makes him fall out of the top 10... Im all for it.

[TD 21]

There's zero chance Achiuwa can or will play"SF". He's got the body of a "PF", but unless he becomes a credible range shooter, he'll either have to play small ball C or be paired with a floor spacing rim protector, who allows him to play rim runner on offense and defend "PF's" on defense.

Too many are living in the past in terms of positional designations. I can't tell you how many times I've seen "Metu can play SF", "Samanic is an SF", "Johnson isn't an SF", etc.

[objective]

Here's my point.

Just because a coach uses a player at PF or C, doesnt mean thats what he is suited for. Usually its the roster makeup of the team. I firmly believe Achiuwa was played as a big because no one else on the team could do it better than him. Now the assistant coach is babbling about players who play that position as if that is what he is confined to.

The Spurs have played Forbes at SF. Does that mean he is a SF? No.

Eye test clearly shows his game is of that of a SF/PF hybrid.

No, i dont mind if he gets compared to those players. But to confine him to those players and their style? I disagree. He has their strengths, sure. But I believe he can be much more, given his knack for playmaking and handling the ball in transition.

But hey, if teams have that view of him of being a Bam type and that makes him fall out of the top 10... Im all for it.

re: the coach babbling, I don't view it as him confining Achiuwa to an archetype, he was promoting him. And considering the coach in question had spent time at the NBA level I consider his optimistic promotion to be looking towards his perceived best possible outcome.

I'll watch the games I have and judge for myself if he has any of strengths needed to passably play SF.

And that's even if Pop would play him there. The way Pop handled Murray and White proves that his imagination is quite lacking, and asking him to play a 6-9 guy who can't hit shots or make free throws (as of now) when he could just play Forbes at SF on a new 4-year $60 million contract isn't something I would expect happening even if Achiuwa is the next Durant.

[Thomas82]

I'm holding out hope that somehow we get James Wiseman.

[Sugus]

Why's everyone so damn hung up on whether Precious would play SF, PF, or what may be? Strictly defined positions are a thing of the past. Besides, it's not like we have a damn star prospect at the 3/4/5 that would stand in the way of Achiuwa... If we draft him and he's immediately better and jumps in front of Luka or even Jakob as the more versatile/complete/energetic prospect, I for sure ain't complaining :lol

I don't care whether we draft a SF, PF, or C. Just no guards... Unless we jump into top-4 and Deni is there, or he miraculously falls to 11.

[Dejounte]

Fine. Lets go with this. If Precious is drafted, i will be extremely happy with his ability to guard all positions + be disruptive on defense with his Kawhi-like arms + able to dribble and drive. That to me, is an all star. Regardless of whatever position he plays.

I want us to draft someone with length, but also with strength so they dont get bullied in the post. We need someone to slow down Kawhi, LeBron, and Giannis. We cant rely on freaking Derrick White to do that. Precious has the physique. Vassell? Dude looks like a twig and while he was a stopper in college, i doubt he could do the same in the NBA.

[Dejounte]

What yall need to see is also his explosive first step which he uses to blow by defenders when attacking with the ball. That is a premium quality in prospects when gauging for potential stardom.

[Chinook]

While old positional definitions are at least somewhat outdated, that doesn't mean that there aren't new ones. Yeah, Samanic and Metu are not SFs. And yeah, PFs play more on the perimeter than usual. But there's still a gradient with all the positions where some lack complete cross-over. A guy like Walker can play the two or three. But he's not a four. Maybe Precious can play some three, but you likely can't have two players with his same pluses and minuses on the floor at the same time as forwards. The skills each position need are different than they used to be, but the need for specialization in skills is still important excepting a situation where the players in question just have too much talent to ignore.

To that end, I have no idea why people keep trying to draft for need. The only way position matters in the draft is if the Spurs are going to run it back and are planning to get a starter to go with DMDR and LMA. If they are going to rebuild or just play out the string, then you draft whomever, even if it's a 6-5 guard, so long as you believe that player will be the best. FFS some folks are upset at the idea of the Spurs winning the lottery and taking a guard, like they have first-overall talent just sitting on their roster.

[widowmaker]

Yeah we need another midget.

[Chinook]

Yeah we need another midget.

The point is such a guy wouldn't be "another" anything, because no one on the roster is worth skewing BPA.

[Russ]

I'm holding out hope that somehow we get James Wiseman.

Don't forget about Okongwu. Poor man's Wiseman?

He actually might slip to where the Spurs end up.

[exstatic]

I'm holding out hope that somehow we get James Wiseman.

You’d have to jump into the top 4, AND be ahead of GS. Every mock simulation on Tankathon has them picking him if he’s on the board. If he’s gone, they select Okongwu.

[Dejounte]

Here is the perfect video of Precious showing good and bad. 40+ minute video. Captures every play he's involved in.

https://youtu.be/YVi5x0TCOqc

[Dejounte]

Here is the perfect video of Precious showing good and bad. 40+ minute video. Captures every play he's involved in.

https://youtu.be/YVi5x0TCOqc

Check out the (missed) post move at timestamp 9:35. Remind you of anyone?

[tim_duncan_fan]

Here is the perfect video of Precious showing good and bad. 40+ minute video. Captures every play he's involved in.

https://youtu.be/YVi5x0TCOqc

I watched like 17min and it seems like he gets his shot blocked alot.

[BackHome]

Watched it great defender but Offense has a way to go not a hater but he is not a top 12 pick. This draft is starting to look real weak I’ll say it again if we can trade our 11th pick for someone 1st next year I am all for it just as long as we know will get. 5 to 10 pick.

I would trade LMA or DEROZZ for a top 15 pick in 2021 and what ever shitty one year fillers we need to match contracts. This goes without saying we need to do the David and Timmy and just Tank like New York, Chicago do.

[objective]

Here is the perfect video of Precious showing good and bad. 40+ minute video. Captures every play he's involved in.

https://youtu.be/YVi5x0TCOqc

I have a hard time watching that channel's videos because of the stutter/frame drops or whatever is going on with that guy's capture set-up. I don't know if he's rocking a Celeron in his eMachines or just how he's outputting it but it gives me a headache.

Anyway

I watched 5 complete games of Achiuwa: @ Oregon, vs SMU, @ SMU, vs Wichita State, @ Houston.

That's all I have because of the conference they played in (and their unremarkable 62nd SOS), they just weren't on TV that much. I had more of FSU, and complemented that by watching condensed 10 minute versions of all their games on the ACC youtube channel. Looks like I could probably find that for Memphis but don't know I'll bother until after I watch some other people.

I like him more than when I had only watched the draft scouting videos but I still see him more as a big than as a capable wing player or creator, especially on offense.

Two players came to mind watching him for me.

1. more muscular Nic Claxton. Not just the hair, but Claxton was also a big long guy who could move his feet on the perimeter and challenge shots while handling a little in the open court and some potential for shooting. Passing for Claxton probably more advanced, slightly taller and longer, but less sturdy body-wise.

2. a GOOD version of Luka Samanic. He was basically what people hope Luka can turn into. 6-9/10 guy (except with a good wingspan) who can move his feet and defend, while having a first step to attack with an okay handle, and having an NBA body with NBA strength and plays with a high motor and 'give-a-damn' level. And unlike Luka, nobody is pretending that he's going to shoot like Davis Bertans. Samanic is probably still inferior to Achiuwa's strength and physique, still has t-rex arms, and still can't play defense like Achiuwa (and neither can shoot reliably).

I wouldn't say Achiuwa is a perfect defender either. He got taken from the 3-point line to the rim and scored on just like everyone else, including what might have been 3 times in the first half against Oregon if I remember right (I wasn't writing it down). Still good for a switching big though.

But to the offensive side: sure, he didn't get many opportunities to do more perimeter actions, but I didn't see a whole lot of perimeter oriented skill. His handle was okay in the open court and good for a big man, but wasn't remarkable in the halfcourt. His passing was just okay for a big, didn't look like he had that much potential as a secondary or tertiary decision maker or could run a pick and roll effectively. His first step was good, for a big against blah college talent. His shooting was all over the place with his form that needs a lot of work.

He's also not that young. He's older than Samanic. He's almost 2 full year older than Patrick Williams (SEP-19-99 to AUG-06-01). Compared to Williams he might have more lively feet, and taller with better length. But in the whole dribble-pass-shoot aspect of offense I think he's quite a bit behind Williams despite his age.

[objective]

I would also add that I'd much rather have Claxton than Samanic. Claxton dominated the g-league and Samanic is still trying to figure out how to be an above average efficiency player there. Claxton is about 8 months older.

Samanic vs Claxton per 36 g-league

FGA 16.1 - 16.0
FG% 43.2 - 65.9
3PA 5.8 - 3.4
3P% 31.1 - 55.6
2P% 50.0 - 68.7
FTA 2.7 - 4.0
FT% 77.1 - 76.2
PTS 19.2 - 28.3
REB 9.9 - 12.6
AST 1.7 - 2.5
BLK 1.0 - 2.1
STL 1.0 - 1.3
TOV 3.9 (!) - 1.3

PER 12.6 - 32.3

So my comparing Achiuwa to Claxton, who was the first pick of the second round is not an insult.

[Dejounte]

I watched like 17min and it seems like he gets his shot blocked alot.

I agree but what i look for are the moves. Getting blocked is probably all about iq and timing and he just started playing ball in 8th grade

[Dejounte]

I would also add that I'd much rather have Claxton than Samanic. Claxton dominated the g-league and Samanic is still trying to figure out how to be an above average efficiency player there. Claxton is about 8 months older.

Samanic vs Claxton per 36 g-league

FGA 16.1 - 16.0
FG% 43.2 - 65.9
3PA 5.8 - 3.4
3P% 31.1 - 55.6
2P% 50.0 - 68.7
FTA 2.7 - 4.0
FT% 77.1 - 76.2
PTS 19.2 - 28.3
REB 9.9 - 12.6
AST 1.7 - 2.5
BLK 1.0 - 2.1
STL 1.0 - 1.3
TOV 3.9 (!) - 1.3

PER 12.6 - 32.3

So my comparing Achiuwa to Claxton, who was the first pick of the second round is not an insult.

Thanks for at least taking your time to watch his film as I have to form your opinion. Much respect to you.

If you dig in my post history, you will find that I was screaming about Nic Claxton during last year's draft process ALMOST as much as i am now with Precious. Nic was my boy. And i agree with your assessment that Precious is similar. I like Precious better because of his built and athleticism, I think those two things go a long way in the NBA vs hoping someone would bulk up like Giannis or Robert Swift or LeBron.

As far as age goes, its hardly something Ive looked at in players who either have a polished game (like Derrick White) or started basketball late (Pascal Siakam).

[Dejounte]

The reason I believe he is more of a wing is if you watch that 40 minute video (for those who can), most of his tendencies are from attacking with the ball from outside the 3 pt line. Natural bigs dont normally do that. They get the ball in the post and take 2-3 steps towards the basket to lay it up.

Btw check out the move at 25:08

[Dejounte]

One other thing other people dont check is the person themselves. Spurs put a high emphasis on character. If you watch his one to one interviews he sounds very intelligent and coachable.

[spurs50_]

I just hope all the midgets are gone by the time we pick.....

[exstatic]

Watched it great defender but Offense has a way to go not a hater but he is not a top 12 pick. This draft is starting to look real weak I’ll say it again if we can trade our 11th pick for someone 1st next year I am all for it just as long as we know will get. 5 to 10 pick.

I would trade LMA or DEROZZ for a top 15 pick in 2021 and what ever shitty one year fillers we need to match contracts. This goes without saying we need to do the David and Timmy and just Tank like New York, Chicago do.

Remind me again...how long has NY been tanking?

[JuneJive]

Are the Warriors high on (Onyeka) Okongwu? Mike Schmitz’ comparison of Bam (Adebayo) and Onyeka is really on point. He can immediately take Looney's spot and develop into a beast. Ton of potential.

Believe it or not, the Warriors are actually higher on Southern Cal’s Okongwu than James Wiseman. If they end up taking a big man in the top five, it’ll almost definitely be the 6-foot-9 Okongwu. His game is well-suited for the Warriors’ style. Unlike Wiseman, Okongwu can shuttle between multiple positions with ease.

If the Warriors get the No. 4 or 5 pick, they’ll definitely consider Okongwu. I think that, for a 19-year-old, he has a relatively high floor. He has All-Star potential, but, at worst, he projects as a solid NBA starter for years to come. That’s great value in what’s widely considered a weak draft.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/warriors/article/Warriors-mailbag-What-is-the-window-to-acquire-15268517.php

[Dejounte]

One other thing other people dont check is the person themselves. Spurs put a high emphasis on character. If you watch his one to one interviews he sounds very intelligent and coachable.

I just watched an interview with Anthony Edwards and holy shit it is night and day. Dude is going to be a headcase.

[Darius Bieber]

Hmmm.... I'd rather have a backcourt of Murray + Haliburton than a backcourt of Murray + Forbes tbh. Plus he seems like Spurs material.

[tim_duncan_fan]

I just watched an interview with Anthony Edwards and holy shit it is night and day. Dude is going to be a headcase.
Check out the video of him rapping in the car.

Def not Spurs material. Not because of rap, but the content of his song. I didn't find out he was a early draftee until after I saw him rap.

Good luck to him and whoever becomes his franchise.

[objective]

Thanks for at least taking your time to watch his film as I have to form your opinion. Much respect to you.

If you dig in my post history, you will find that I was screaming about Nic Claxton during last year's draft process ALMOST as much as i am now with Precious. Nic was my boy. And i agree with your assessment that Precious is similar. I like Precious better because of his built and athleticism, I think those two things go a long way in the NBA vs hoping someone would bulk up like Giannis or Robert Swift or LeBron.

As far as age goes, its hardly something Ive looked at in players who either have a polished game (like Derrick White) or started basketball late (Pascal Siakam).

I liked Claxton a lot last year also, I had him with Thybulle and Clark as a guy I hoped they would take. Plus Nassir Little as an athletic project but had him lower.

I agree about the build and athleticism working in favor of prospects, part of why I love Williams and like Achiuwa. Some guys add strength and weight, some guys add strength but not a lot of weight, some guys add weight and not a lot of strength, some guys add neither. Being ahead of the game is a good thing, unlike waiting forever for Samanic to transform.

[objective]

One other thing other people dont check is the person themselves. Spurs put a high emphasis on character. If you watch his one to one interviews he sounds very intelligent and coachable.

True. And that comes into play with Williams for me. During one of his games the broadcasters were talking about interviewing him before the game and mentioned that when he was asked why he chose Florida State (he was a 5-star recruit and had many offers) ... he responded that he wanted to learn to play defense. That's the sort of thing to make the Spurs swoon if ever there was one.

Other games had broadcasters talking about how humble he was and such a hard worker. Fits right in.

[objective]

The reason I believe he is more of a wing is if you watch that 40 minute video (for those who can), most of his tendencies are from attacking with the ball from outside the 3 pt line. Natural bigs dont normally do that. They get the ball in the post and take 2-3 steps towards the basket to lay it up.

Btw check out the move at 25:08

I think I understand why you see Kawhi similarities (or some other big wing like Giannis etc), but I don't see it fully translating because of balance. The moves at the timestamp here and the 9:35 one are ambitious and that's fine, but when I think of young Kawhi (and now Williams) I remember him being very balanced on his shot attempts. Even moving through the air, just straight up ad down bodywise and solid, repeatable form.

I don't necessarily see Achiuwa presently having that consistency of form. It's more erratic, even if he makes the shot. It's missing that moment when people realized, damn, Kawhi's mid-range game is money. Because each shot looks so sturdy. And Kawhi of course kept adding moves to his repertoire, adding the Kobe into his post-ups, adding the spins like Tony, etc etc. But it started with a great base of a shot that was sound body-wise and that he could repeat.

I might make a Williams video or a long series of posts linking to videos with timestamps to show why I see more scoring wing potential for Williams.

[TDMVPDPOY]

spurs need an alpha scorer who aint afraid about their fg% bullshit...

spurs have to many idiots on the team afraid to score or missing a play to get bench and barked at

[BackHome]

Remind me again...how long has NY been tanking?

We tank much better see Tim Duncan and David Robinson all gotten from TANKING. :toast

[Dejounte]

I think I understand why you see Kawhi similarities (or some other big wing like Giannis etc), but I don't see it fully translating because of balance. The moves at the timestamp here and the 9:35 one are ambitious and that's fine, but when I think of young Kawhi (and now Williams) I remember him being very balanced on his shot attempts. Even moving through the air, just straight up ad down bodywise and solid, repeatable form.

I don't necessarily see Achiuwa presently having that consistency of form. It's more erratic, even if he makes the shot. It's missing that moment when people realized, damn, Kawhi's mid-range game is money. Because each shot looks so sturdy. And Kawhi of course kept adding moves to his repertoire, adding the Kobe into his post-ups, adding the spins like Tony, etc etc. But it started with a great base of a shot that was sound body-wise and that he could repeat.

I might make a Williams video or a long series of posts linking to videos with timestamps to show why I see more scoring wing potential for Williams.

Everything about Kawhi's moves (at least early in his career) has always been robotic-like. Its why he didnt have many fans early on, because his game was neither flashy or exciting. It always looked like a player that is uncomfortable playing basketball but does his best imitation. I agree, because of this, that it has been a major help in being consistent with his methods. It seriously matches his personality the way he was so robotic back then. Makes you think if he had a mental disorder of some sort.

With Precious, i agree that he cant replicate that type of growth the way Kawhi did because Kawhi was this super robotic learner personality. My hope is that Precious has an upward trend like LeBron and Giannis did, using brute force to get their way on offense and then let other skills use that as a foundation to grow on. Honestly, Giannis was far from impressive during the first few years of his career... He was a serious turnover machine. However, the Bucks (Jason Kidd) had patience and actually forced the PG position on him and made him mature. If only we had years to wait on a raw prospect and waste seasons trying to develop his skills like that... It will never happen. But maybe thats what the Gleague is for. And maybe thats what we should expect going forward even if we land a top 3 pick, for the Spurs to utilize Gleague because using it makes them proud.

Not sure Ive said this before but Derrick White shares that in common with Kawhi. They both have the personality type to nitpick mistakes they made on defense or offense...and it registers on their brain to not do it again. You can see it in action when Derrick is playing, he zones out and thinks about the play that was made vs getting emotional over it. Derrick is a smart player in the vein of Timmy and Kawhi. Thats why I dont think age matters much when youre a methodical player like these three.

Do I think Precious has that type of bball IQ and passion? Time will tell... From his interviews with DX it seemed like he was seriously following what Mike Shmidtz was saying and wasnt just going "uh huh".

[exstatic]

We tank much better see Tim Duncan and David Robinson all gotten from TANKING. :toast

There will be no more David Robinson’s or Tim Duncans in the draft, ever. You will never plug in a #1 pick and immediately improve improve 35 or 36 games like they did for us.

[Dejounte]

Regarding Patrick Williams-- maybe i need to watch more but so far i just get serious Metu clone vibes. One of the main reasons I think Precious is more of a wing than Patrick is because of Patrick's upper torso which remains straight and upright position during the games. Its just a common posture/body figure that ive observed among most bigs.

I come away unimpressed because I see a player that does not really attack the basket from the perimeter. He gets it and dribbles one or two times, then the shot.

I would say one thing though and its that i would rather take a chance on a raw prospect with good size (Patrick) over vs good reputation prospect with average size (Vassell). Spurs need a home run and not a prospect destined to be a role player at his best.

[Thomas82]

You’d have to jump into the top 4, AND be ahead of GS. Every mock simulation on Tankathon has them picking him if he’s on the board. If he’s gone, they select Okongwu.

If Golden State trades for Rudy Gobert like they're rumored to, then they'll look somewhere else. I have even heard that they might be looking to trade down.

[Thomas82]

Don't forget about Okongwu. Poor man's Wiseman?

He actually might slip to where the Spurs end up.

I wouldn't mind having him either. He would be an excellent choice if we can't get Wiseman.

[FutureMan]

There will be no more David Robinson’s or Tim Duncans in the draft, ever. You will never plug in a #1 pick and immediately improve improve 35 or 36 games like they did for us.

Should be interesting to see how this post ages with the Warriors possibly proving you wrong within a year.

[exstatic]

Should be interesting to see how this post ages with the Warriors possibly proving you wrong within a year.

That won't be the draft pick, that will be the return of two All NBA players in Curry and Klay, plus the draft pick. GSs record was artificially deflated by injuries.

[objective]

Regarding Patrick Williams-- maybe i need to watch more but so far i just get serious Metu clone vibes. One of the main reasons I think Precious is more of a wing than Patrick is because of Patrick's upper torso which remains straight and upright position during the games. Its just a common posture/body figure that ive observed among most bigs.

I come away unimpressed because I see a player that does not really attack the basket from the perimeter. He gets it and dribbles one or two times, then the shot.

I would say one thing though and its that i would rather take a chance on a raw prospect with good size (Patrick) over vs good reputation prospect with average size (Vassell). Spurs need a home run and not a prospect destined to be a role player at his best.

I'll probably put together a post with ton of timestamps that will address theses things. May not be convincing to you, but it will show why I'm high on him as being projectable as a scoring threat big wing.

Back to Achiuwa, I was going through some old mocks and saw how SI's Jeremy Woo had Bam Adebayo mocked to the Spurs at 29 as late as May 17. His stock of course jumped 15 spots in a month. There are some here who might anti-Precious because of where some places mock him now or maybe think he's only targetable as a trade-down candidate. I'm not one of them, I don't think taking Precious at 11 would be a reach or undesirable based on perceived draft stock. Hell he might be gone before the Spurs even pick.

[BackHome]

There will be no more David Robinson’s or Tim Duncans in the draft, ever. You will never plug in a #1 pick and immediately improve improve 35 or 36 games like they did for us.

People said the same thing after we drafted David and what do you know we Tanked and got Timmy. My point is that some teams tank every year and some strategically tank for a certain players like we did for David and Timmy so 2021 draft is going to have some really good players and I HOPE that we could possibly trade our first this year for 2021 so we strategically Tank by playing all our new guys more then 5 minutes a game. And hoping that Forbes and DEROZZ are traded so Keldon and Walker and White and Murray, and Samanic can get real playing time to truly judge what we have as a building block.

Everything I have read is saying this is a very weak draft and next year is going to be one of the best in a long time so would love 2 high first rounders buy hey that’s just my thoughts.

[Dejounte]

I'll probably put together a post with ton of timestamps that will address theses things. May not be convincing to you, but it will show why I'm high on him as being projectable as a scoring threat big wing.

Back to Achiuwa, I was going through some old mocks and saw how SI's Jeremy Woo had Bam Adebayo mocked to the Spurs at 29 as late as May 17. His stock of course jumped 15 spots in a month. There are some here who might anti-Precious because of where some places mock him now or maybe think he's only targetable as a trade-down candidate. I'm not one of them, I don't think taking Precious at 11 would be a reach or undesirable based on perceived draft stock. Hell he might be gone before the Spurs even pick.

Watched a couple more...

Beginning to see what you mean about the "sturdiness" of Pat's pull ups. It looks the same every time. His shoulders get compact which helps with the shot. Still, his lack of explosiveness is concerning. NBA players will be able to stay in front of him better and bother him with length.

If the Spurs get him over Precious, then there must be something there. His offense is obviously better. In my opinion, this team doesnt need another mid range shooter or shooter period who would get hot and cold just like everyone else on our current team. For instance, i think Lonnie and Murray are players with greater tendencies to shoot rather than take it in hard like Keldon. We need more players like Keldon who are fearless and attack, attack, attack. Way too many times last year we could not buy a bucket in the third because we had players who were soft. I'm afraid Pat would overrely on that shot when he sees players in the paint in the NBA are bigger and tougher.

For a while this past season, people ragged on Keldon for being a poor shooter in the GLeague. I would still take his poor shooting ass over softie Lonnie.

[objective]

Watched a couple more...

Beginning to see what you mean about the "sturdiness" of Pat's pull ups. It looks the same every time. His shoulders get compact which helps with the shot. Still, his lack of explosiveness is concerning. NBA players will be able to stay in front of him better and bother him with length.

If the Spurs get him over Precious, then there must be something there. His offense is obviously better. In my opinion, this team doesnt need another mid range shooter or shooter period who would get hot and cold just like everyone else on our current team. For instance, i think Lonnie and Murray are players with greater tendencies to shoot rather than take it in hard like Keldon. We need more players like Keldon who are fearless and attack, attack, attack. Way too many times last year we could not buy a bucket in the third because we had players who were soft. I'm afraid Pat would overrely on that shot when he sees players in the paint in the NBA are bigger and tougher.

For a while this past season, people ragged on Keldon for being a poor shooter in the GLeague. I would still take his poor shooting ass over softie Lonnie.

I've been re-watching Williams like a mad-man plus reading more on him like at The Stepien. I still really like him, but the flaws and pitfalls are getting bigger to me. Maybe it's watching him too much, or just seeing more and being able to judge better.

with regards to Keldon Johnson and driving to the basket ... Williams had a decent free throw attempt rate (.357 to Keldon's NCAA .416). Better than Lonnie (.204) and guys like Jeff Green or Earl Clark. But also more than Kawhi who only had a ftar of .305. So yes, whether he would still attack like a bulldog like Keldon is a fair point. But to me, his good free throw % incentives him to continue going at the rim. He was such a good free throw shooter I even saw him designated to shoot a technical that the other coach drew.

With his athleticism, I like him because I am projecting out that he will fine-tune his body due to his age and get better athletically. He has these huge legs and I am hopeful that as his body matures he gets more comfortable and just better. BUT that's just a projection. He could very easily plateau or get slower. And if that happens that blows apart how good he'll be.

Chris Singleton back in the day was a worse athlete in the NBA than college. Three potential contributions to that: First, he gained weight after college and might have contributed to him being slower. On paper it was 10 pounds, but I swear that there was a DX or ESPN report at the time of the draft that the number was 20. Second, he had a broken foot and surgery to repair it his last college season, missed only 4 weeks and came back to play in March Madness. That's such a short timeline that I could easily imagine that screwing up his athleticism, I doubt a player would be allowed to do that nowadays. Third, was the work ethic. I doubt anyone could have predicted that Singleton was the kind of guy who would spend $10k on a single drawing of lottery tickets while in the NBA. And when he was slower, he lost the speed to cover anyone 1-3.

So if Williams doesn't improve athletically or gets slower, that probably sinks him.

One thing that's in favor of Achiuwa is that he's ready to go athletically. Maybe being older helps.

One other small note with a sample size of almost nothing: I remain optimistic that Williams can function with the mindset of a scorer, and the game against Syracuse fits with it. That game Vassell sat out, and he led Florida State in points and field goal attempts for the season. Not by a lot, they were a pretty even team, but he was more or less the man. In that game Williams still came off the bench but had his season high in points and FGA and led FSU for the game in both categories, including some tough inside scores down the stretch. Correction: season high points against major conference schools He also got taken to the rim and scored on to match his scores, but it is what it is, he shouldn't be covering small scoring guards.

[talkspurs]

People said the same thing after we drafted David and what do you know we Tanked and got Timmy. My point is that some teams tank every year and some strategically tank for a certain players like we did for David and Timmy so 2021 draft is going to have some really good players and I HOPE that we could possibly trade our first this year for 2021 so we strategically Tank by playing all our new guys more then 5 minutes a game. And hoping that Forbes and DEROZZ are traded so Keldon and Walker and White and Murray, and Samanic can get real playing time to truly judge what we have as a building block.

Everything I have read is saying this is a very weak draft and next year is going to be one of the best in a long time so would love 2 high first rounders buy hey that’s just my thoughts.

Your only problem with your statement is you have contradicting points in there. If we get rid of forbes and DDR to play our younger players and tank. I believe if we get rid of those two and play our younger players we will actually be better.

[Dejounte]

I'll probably put together a post with ton of timestamps that will address theses things. May not be convincing to you, but it will show why I'm high on him as being projectable as a scoring threat big wing.

Back to Achiuwa, I was going through some old mocks and saw how SI's Jeremy Woo had Bam Adebayo mocked to the Spurs at 29 as late as May 17. His stock of course jumped 15 spots in a month. There are some here who might anti-Precious because of where some places mock him now or maybe think he's only targetable as a trade-down candidate. I'm not one of them, I don't think taking Precious at 11 would be a reach or undesirable based on perceived draft stock. Hell he might be gone before the Spurs even pick.

Precious just climbed to #12 on the latest tankathon mock draft. Before that, i think he was last in the first round.

Fuck!

[BackHome]

Well it was reported long time ago that The Spurs has him pegged for the draft when it looked like they were picking 18.

[keithington1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWs-C2MI7fs
Tyler Bey has all the tools of Kawhi. He has the defense, rebounding, length, touch, and post game of Kawhi. Although he is 22 I see him as having a ton of upside. He just needs to extend his range, shoot with confidence, and tighten his handle. All things Kawhi worked on. He's a power forward than can transition to small forwards easily due to his length and quickness. Spurs love the Pac 12

[JuneJive]

I still kind of like Okoro on the wing the most.

He's got some question marks on his shooting, but nothing alarming.

Defense looks pretty legit.

[lmbebo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWs-C2MI7fs
Tyler Bey has all the tools of Kawhi. He has the defense, rebounding, length, touch, and post game of Kawhi. Although he is 22 I see him as having a ton of upside. He just needs to extend his range, shoot with confidence, and tighten his handle. All things Kawhi worked on. He's a power forward than can transition to small forwards easily due to his length and quickness. Spurs love the Pac 12

Looks like he's projected to go in the 20s? Worth it if we could trade in at that point. Not sure he's a lottery level talent (unless some Spurs see more in him that untrained eyes do)

[spurs50_]

No one is talking Saddiq anymore?

[talkspurs]

No one is talking Saddiq anymore?

That is still who I want

[duncan2150]

Precious just climbed to #12 on the latest tankathon mock draft. Before that, i think he was last in the first round.

Fuck!

I'm with you for precious after watching some tapes.

I want an energetic big since a long time and he can be it.
He is really good at the PnR, good defender, shotblocker and the shooting touch is in progress.


No one is talking Saddiq anymore?

I prefer okoro, green or vassell at the wing but it's close and Bey could be interesting.

[B1gduff]

I think the Montrezl Harrell comp is right on with what i see out of Achiuwa, but i also think that if he gets drafted to right team, and puts in work along with the development team, might be better than Harrell. he's 20, will be 21 by next season, still young enough to improve.

I've be hearing a few people mentioning a Pascal Siakam comp, both from his coach and other outside source. I do not see that, i think defensively i can see him having a similar impact to that of Siakam, but not offensively. Another guy that i keep on thinking about when comparing Precious is Luol Deng. I think if Precious reaches his potential offense ceiling, you looking more a Luol Deng time of player.

I see Precious being more of 4 in this league, that has the ability to guard 3/4 and a few smallball 5s.

[Dejounte]

Precious insults Rudy Gay in this video and compares himself to Kawhi.


https://youtu.be/i-SEij8PVS8

[exstatic]

Precious insults Rudy Gay in this video and compares himself to Kawhi.


https://youtu.be/i-SEij8PVS8

Yeah, that won't get you interest by the Spurs.

[ginobilized]

He is living up to his name of Precious

[objective]

Here's some video of Patrick Williams and what I like about him. Feelings on him from draft enthusiasts are very mixed, there's a t-wolves centered podcast that just hated (https://danenbapodcast.libsyn.com/) him and projected him as a smallball center.

But I'll get into what I like about him. First, someone else's strengths and weaknesses videos:


https://youtu.be/oLD_XajiKa4


https://youtu.be/egSRuIe4dJQ

You can see a lot of his shooting so I won't bother linking to those

...

[objective]

Going to the rim. He was an efficient mid-range shooter (clarification, efficient off the dribble), but didn’t settle for only that. He would drive and draw fouls, and being a very good free throw shooter, it makes me hopeful that he’ll continue to go at the rim when opportunities are there and not be afraid of contact.

timestamp 15:36 (https://youtu.be/AMzqrPUCMEM?t=936)


timestamp 10:19 (https://youtu.be/oZxgJ9IeU6o?t=619)


timestamp 28:28 (https://youtu.be/DWRpSL6ntYs?t=1708)


to be continued

[objective]

timestamp 1:18:21 (https://youtu.be/DElYWU5_xgQ?t=4701)

timestamp 4:28 (https://youtu.be/_1576xCsvNY?t=268)

timestamp 4:56 (https://youtu.be/u1OAvmvMpFY?t=296)

timestamp 7:11 (https://youtu.be/pgUZbAAi-3w?t=431)

timestamp 1:16 (https://youtu.be/USMN_HawPkY?t=76)

Not the most devastating driver, but as a freshman who was making jumpshots, he didn't settle as much as one might fear and like I put in an earlier post, he had a decent free throw rate that was largely just from him going to the rim. Less than Keldon Johnson in college but more than Kawhi.

[objective]

Some Patrick Williams plays where his athleticism pop for me. There's more but here's a fair sample I think. Very good second jump.

timestamp 40:35 (https://youtu.be/AMzqrPUCMEM?t=2435)

timestamp 26:11 (https://youtu.be/DWRpSL6ntYs?t=1571)

timestamp 1:54 two blocks in succession (https://youtu.be/5bSMjd5vZiU?t=114)

[objective]

Another place where I feel Patrick Williams is very well placed to be a projected impact player: his passing. Considering that he was a freshman who was not a primary playmaker and had limited opportunities to impress with his passing, this is some good stuff.

Showing Growth part 1/2. MISSES THE PASS then drives and is fouled, possession finishes 101:54 (https://youtu.be/kU0Z1B7KpUg?t=3714)

Showing Growth part 2/2. He acknowledges missing the pass. Next offensive possession they run it again and this time he gets it right. timestamp 102:57 (https://youtu.be/kU0Z1B7KpUg?t=3777)

As a pick-and-roll ballhandler, he ranked in the 89th percentile at 0.958 ppp, and excellent rating (numbers from The Stepien, link here (https://www.thestepien.com/2020/02/28/patrick-williams-scouting-report/)). The shooting from pnr you can see in the strengths video I posted, but here's some passing.

timestamp 13:27. Simple enough pass to the open shooter. (https://youtu.be/9etTegNFBvg?t=807)

timestamp 41:50. Can't get anywhere or feed the big but still is aware to make a sharp pass for a shot. (https://youtu.be/oZxgJ9IeU6o?t=2510)

timestamp 18:05 feed to the big (https://youtu.be/Ai20U0OFSJo?t=1085)

timestamp 27:49 (https://youtu.be/FiEd0Pdarp8?t=1669)

[objective]

Patrick Williams misc passing

timestamp 43:38 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZxgJ9IeU6o&feature=youtu.be&t=2618)

timestamp 48:15 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyJJdEjeaS4&feature=youtu.be&t=2895)

timestamp 11:37. Simple enough pass back, but to me illustrates the team game. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ameoUW4DBBw&feature=youtu.be&t=697)

timestamp 2:52. You can see his potential here for a hammer play. (https://youtu.be/FpDqw8SE0q4?t=172)

timestamp 7:03 (https://youtu.be/FpDqw8SE0q4?t=423)

edited to fix last link

[JuneJive]

Kudos on the work.

All in all, I think they should pick a player with a higher ceiling than Patrick.

[BackHome]

Yeah I am looking at ceiling to improve but what player really has that? The only kid I would think that has a lot of upside would be is Hampton other then that we’re looking at a decent starter or a good sixth man at best. I think they take best young player available not going to swing for the fences in getting another KY.

[spurs50_]

Bleacher report has Spurs picking Cole Anthony.....whatever

[spurspl]

patrick williams has great potential but not worth the 11th pick. If spurs wants him id recommend to trade for late 1st pick and get him

[JuneJive]

Bleacher report has Spurs picking Cole Anthony.....whatever

Anthony seems like an all-around player.

At #11 he could be a steal.

That wingspan tho.

[FutureMan]

Anthony seems like an all-around player.

At #11 he could be a steal.

That wingspan tho.

Most mock drafts have him 10 and lower so I’m not sure you’d be able to call him a steal.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The Ringer have Hayes first on their big board but falling all the way to the Spurs in their mock draft :lol

[B1gduff]

Precious Achiuwa is still my top 1 pick for us.

High IQ

Good size and wing Span

Has the ability to be a lockdown defender

High Upside

can play 3-5, while being a switchable defender

Rebound machine, potential double-double machine.

Cons

TO prone, but i think that was him having a bigger responsibility than initially though. Wiseman was suppose to be the guy, but that didn't work. Percious became the main go to guy, the main ball handler, he became the main guy and wasn't ready.
I think he can improve.

Shot mechanics need improvement.

Raw offensively

i think he fits in with us. He has that high IQ and motor/dog mentally. down the road seem like a solid fit. Attack the pant, defends at a high level, i think he'll be able to developed a solid 3.

[Russ]

Precious Achiuwa is still my top 1 pick for us.

High IQ

Good size and wing Span

Has the ability to be a lockdown defender

High Upside

can play 3-5, while being a switchable defender

Rebound machine, potential double-double machine.

Cons

TO prone, but i think that was him having a bigger responsibility than initially though. Wiseman was suppose to be the guy, but that didn't work. Percious became the main go to guy, the main ball handler, he became the main guy and wasn't ready.
I think he can improve.

Shot mechanics need improvement.

Raw offensively

i think he fits in with us. He has that high IQ and motor/dog mentally. down the road seem like a solid fit. Attack the pant, defends at a high level, i think he'll be able to developed a solid 3.

If Okongwu is gone, this guy might not be so bad.

Added bonus -- I'd love to hear Pop smirking about how "Precious" is progressing.

[Prime BEEF]

Looks like he's projected to go in the 20s? Worth it if we could trade in at that point. Not sure he's a lottery level talent (unless some Spurs see more in him that untrained eyes do)
Yes, wouldn’t take him with the 11th pick But would trade the 2nd rd pick and another roster guy to move up into the 20s for him.

[Trueblood]

Yeah I am looking at ceiling to improve but what player really has that? The only kid I would think that has a lot of upside would be is Hampton other then that we’re looking at a decent starter or a good sixth man at best. I think they take best young player available not going to swing for the fences in getting another KY.

I think McDaniels has sleeper potential. I read that some had him pegged as a high lottery pick out of high school, possibly even #1 overall. But he had an underwhelming year at UW offensively and it tanked his stock. But the potential is there. He played well defensively and did enough offensively to keep his name in the late lottery.

As it stands he could already come in and fill a need at the 3 as a defensive presence (especially with that height and length). His connection with Murray would be a plus. And if we could work with him to find that potential they all saw in high school he has all star potential.

I think we really need to avoid a high floor low ceiling guy and take a big shot and I think this guy has the highest potential ceiling in our range.

[Dejounte]

I wish they would do the lottery already

[keithington1]

My Spurs Big Board :

Avdija
Toppin
Okoro
Vassell

[JuneJive]

I wish they would do the lottery already

Hear, hear.

[Thomas82]

I wish they would do the lottery already

+1

[Dejounte]

I mean why wait until the "season" is over? The conspiracy theorist in me believes they adjust the order based off the results of the season...

[exstatic]

I mean why wait until the "season" is over? The conspiracy theorist in me believes they adjust the order based off the results of the season...

The draft lottery is always after the regular season. Normally, season ends mid April, and lottery is late May. I think as soon as a determination is made for the disposition of the season, probably going straight into the playoffs, they will set a lottery date.

[Dejounte]

I had a brain fart thinking the seeding is set but yeah if there will be regular season games left then the seeding is not finished...duh. But i wish they would just end the regular season.

[Degoat]

Supposedly Bill Simmons heard from a GM that the draft won’t be until September

[exstatic]

Supposedly Bill Simmons heard from a GM that the draft won’t be until September

That's ridiculous.

[keithington1]

I think McDaniels has sleeper potential. I read that some had him pegged as a high lottery pick out of high school, possibly even #1 overall. But he had an underwhelming year at UW offensively and it tanked his stock. But the potential is there. He played well defensively and did enough offensively to keep his name in the late lottery.

As it stands he could already come in and fill a need at the 3 as a defensive presence (especially with that height and length). His connection with Murray would be a plus. And if we could work with him to find that potential they all saw in high school he has all star potential.

I think we really need to avoid a high floor low ceiling guy and take a big shot and I think this guy has the highest potential ceiling in our range.
I'm with you. I personally see all star. It's just the attitude issues. Will the Spurs take someone who had 5 techs?

[tim_duncan_fan]

I'm in on Achiuwa if people feel like he can develop a jumper.

The McDaniels guy might be a mental midget.

[Dejounte]

1. Deni
2. Achiuwa
3. Okongwu
4. Toppin
5. Pat Will

[Thomas82]

I'm just hoping we get lucky and end up with James Wiseman.

[keithington1]

Achiuwa reminds me of Nassir Little. He has shown no flashes of creating a jump shot or advanced dribble moves. I have to pass at 11

[Russ]

Achiuwa reminds me of Nassir Little. He has shown no flashes of creating a jump shot or advanced dribble moves. I have to pass at 11

The problem is there's literally nobody worth the 11th pick in this draft.

If you can't get one of these guys, you might consider trading down:

James Wiseman
Onyeka Okongwu
Deni Avdija
Obi Toppin
Killian Hayes

[FutureMan]

The problem is there's literally nobody worth the 11th pick in this draft.

If you can't get one of these guys, you might consider trading down:

James Wiseman
Onyeka Okongwu
Deni Avdija
Obi Toppin
Killian Hayes

I’m down with that list and add Haliburton too

[Dejounte]

Achiuwa reminds me of Nassir Little. He has shown no flashes of creating a jump shot or advanced dribble moves. I have to pass at 11

Nassir is a midget compared to Achiuwa. That alone sets Achiuwa apart from Nassir.

[exstatic]

Nassir is a midget compared to Achiuwa. That alone sets Achiuwa apart from Nassir.
Not to mention Nassir’s cocaine habit, or getting busted, and rolling on everyone he could throw under the bus.

[Prime BEEF]

The problem is there's literally nobody worth the 11th pick in this draft.

If you can't get one of these guys, you might consider trading down:

James Wiseman
Onyeka Okongwu
Deni Avdija
Obi Toppin
Killian Hayes
Add haliburton to that list

[Dejounte]

Only knock I have against Achiuwa and his potential is his current bball iq. This dumb as bricks team needs bball iq in a bad way. A lot of the dumb plays stem from Rudy Gay, and sometimes Lonnie. We need someone who makes smart plays all the time. Thats why im in favor of Deni.

[mookie2001]

We have to take an athletic guard there’s no other value. Halliburton, Vassell, Maxey or Cole Anthony those are my guys.

[tbdog]

Unsure if you guys read this but Milutinov has signed a 3 year deal for CSKA.

[exstatic]

Unsure if you guys read this but Milutinov has signed a 3 year deal for CSKA.

He’s honestly been way off my radar for at least 2-3 years. The NBA game just evolved away from traditional bigs starting in about 2015 or so.

[JuneJive]

NBA Draft Lottery: August 25

NBA Draft: October 15

[Dejounte]

NBA Draft Lottery: August 25

NBA Draft: October 15

Yes! Finally we know. Two months is such a long time.

[bluebellmaniac]

82 days until we know where we will pick!

[keithington1]

Vassell is going to be to be a star. Feel like GSW will trade back for him. Nesmith will be a star too

[cd021]

Unsure if you guys read this but Milutinov has signed a 3 year deal for CSKA.
Absolute disaster of a pick tbh.

[Dejounte]

Vassell is going to be to be a star. Feel like GSW will trade back for him. Nesmith will be a star too

Lol ok Oprah

[From Downtown]

Absolute disaster of a pick tbh.

Tbh they wanted to stash, the only good players available that came after him and we could have stashed were Osman (who I wouldn't have minded, but the young guards we've got now are better) and Hernangomez, who's a much worse version of Poeltl
I feel like Gudaitis would've made it to the NBA if he didn't tear his ACL, but again as good as he is he's a quite traditional big

[keithington1]

Lol ok Oprah
Spurs have to nail this pick.They need an all star all NBA player. I'm just looking at traits and stats. I like Precious in a trade back. I'm not convinced he will develop the handles to create his own shot or make difficult contested jumpers against the best defenders.

[talkspurs]

Im still pulling for Shaddiq Bey. 3 pt shooter defender and good size for SF.

[Degoat]

This may have already been discussed but I was reading that these 8 games won’t affect are draft pick unless we make the playoffs right? So even if we won a couple games, we’d still end up with the 11th pick

[Dejounte]

This may have already been discussed but I was reading that these 8 games won’t affect are draft pick unless we make the playoffs right? So even if we won a couple games, we’d still end up with the 11th pick

If we get into the playoffs we get a worse pick

[BackHome]

This team ain’t making the playoffs I guarantee most of our guys have all ready checked out.

[Degoat]

This team ain’t making the playoffs I guarantee most of our guys have all ready checked out.

As of yesterday I believe the spurs were the only team that hadn’t opened up their facilities lol

[ZeusWillJudge]

This may have already been discussed but I was reading that these 8 games won’t affect are draft pick unless we make the playoffs right? So even if we won a couple games, we’d still end up with the 11th pick



At the end of the season, Minnesota was 19-45 and Cleveland was 19-46. Technically, that gives Cleveland a slightly worse record, and neither of them get to play any more games. Are they going to give Cleveland a higher draft pick, just because they got the opportunity to play (and tank) one more game than the T-Wolves?

There are some weird scenarios possible, depending on how the league handles things. I think they're just going to wait until it's over and hope none of those really weird things happen. I'm pretty confident that the Spurs wind up at #11 when it's all said and done - so long as they don't back into the playoffs.

[pookenstein]

Would be a fitting ending to the season if the Spurs pulled a couple of decent wins together, get into the Playoffs, lose #11 and get buttfucked by the Lakers. I hope for four losses out of the gates, no chance to advance and four games playing the youth.

[cd021]

Tbh they wanted to stash, the only good players available that came after him and we could have stashed were Osman (who I wouldn't have minded, but the young guards we've got now are better) and Hernangomez, who's a much worse version of Poeltl
I feel like Gudaitis would've made it to the NBA if he didn't tear his ACL, but again as good as he is he's a quite traditional big

That's the problem; they were pinching pennies, trying to save money to re-sign Kawhi, Green and sign Aldridge but they could've done all three plus sign their first round pick. They didn't need to draft and stash and could've had Nance Jr, Looney, Harrell, or Josh Richardson- all of whom were drafted after the 25th pick.

He's likely never going to play in the NBA, so the Spurs wasted a first rounder.

[SpursDynasty85]

That's the problem; they were pinching pennies, trying to save money to re-sign Kawhi, Green and sign Aldridge but they could've done all three plus sign their first round pick. They didn't need to draft and stash and could've had Nance Jr, Looney, Harrell, or Josh Richardson- all of whom were drafted after the 25th pick.

He's likely never going to play in the NBA, so the Spurs wasted a first rounder.

He is 25. Plenty of time for him to get to the Spurs and fill a possible future need. There is always a need for a bruiser. Was it a bad pick? Probably.

[TD 21]

Absolute disaster of a pick tbh.

Spurs are the undisputed kings at giving away assets. In addition to doing so with a top 5 player and 2 elite role players, they more than likely will end up with 0 games played from 2 1sts over a 3 year period. Incredible.



Tbh they wanted to stash, the only good players available that came after him and we could have stashed were Osman (who I wouldn't have minded, but the young guards we've got now are better) and Hernangomez, who's a much worse version of Poeltl
I feel like Gudaitis would've made it to the NBA if he didn't tear his ACL, but again as good as he is he's a quite traditional big

Osman is a "SF"/small ball "PF" and Hernangomez is nothing like Poeltl. He's been cajoled into attempting some 3s in recent seasons, but at heart is a post up plodder, who offers sub par rim protection.

[cd021]

Spurs are the undisputed kings at giving away assets. In addition to doing so with a top 5 player and 2 elite role players, they more than likely will end up with 0 games played from 2 1sts over a 3 year period. Incredible.

LJC was bad luck, tearing his ACL after getting drafted. He might've actually developed into a pretty good player especially with how the game changed since he was drafted.

Milutinov was a baffling pick, when it happened. They pinched pennies when they didn't have too. They didn't need to draft and stash to re-sign Green, Kawhi, and signing Aldridge. Still, two 1st rounders in three years not even playing NBA minutes for the Spurs really hurts.

[cd021]

He is 25. Plenty of time for him to get to the Spurs and fill a possible future need. There is always a need for a bruiser. Was it a bad pick? Probably.

He signed a 3 year deal this year to stay overseas. He'd be 28 by the time he can sign with the Spurs. He's already a plodding center, waiting 3 years probably isn't going to make him more ready for the NBA.

Plus, he reportedly wanted most of the MLE on a long term deal. No way the Spurs were going to pay upwards of $21 million to a center unless he has potential to be a good starter (like Poeltl). They should cut their losses, Metu and Eubanks have a better chance of being rotation NBA players than Milutinov tbh.

[TD 21]

LJC was bad luck, tearing his ACL after getting drafted. He might've actually developed into a pretty good player especially with how the game changed since he was drafted.

Milutinov was a baffling pick, when it happened. They pinched pennies when they didn't have too. They didn't need to draft and stash to re-sign Green, Kawhi, and signing Aldridge. Still, two 1st rounders in three years not even playing NBA minutes for the Spurs really hurts.

A torn ACL isn't a death sentence. He was a raw, long, athletic player, who had no discernible skill(s).

[K...]

A torn ACL isn't a death sentence. He was a raw, long, athletic player, who had no discernible skill(s).

uh, the spurs let him play for many years and he clearly was not the same. Spursfans always bitch about the spurs taking skilled non athletic guys but when they do people go out of their way to diminish it

[cd021]

A torn ACL isn't a death sentence. He was a raw, long, athletic player, who had no discernible skill(s).

Sure but losing a year of development, along with being raw, certainly didn't help. It might've turned out differently had it not happened.

[bluebellmaniac]

71 days until we know where we will pick!

[B1gduff]

So hearing that the Knicks aren't sure if they want Knox as part of there future.

Might worth a shot, maybe trade see if the Knicks are willing to trade him for a 2nd +Mitu or just a 2nd round pick.

I've heard he's a bit lazy, and has a low iq. But the skill set is there.

6'9 with a 7'1 wingspan, with solid skill set. he averaged 12 pts as a 19 year old, so the skill is there.

He's needs to work on his Efficiency, and getting out of New York might help.

He'll only be 21, at worst he could be a solid 3 and D guy, with proper development. Has the size to play SF and PF.

[keithington1]

Here's my big board so far. I try to evaluate potential. How I see a player developing in the next 2 to 5 years based on their play type/ potential. Of course some players won't develop and some players will go above their ceilings. If I'm the Spurs at 11 I take Okoro based off of team need. Haliburton and Hayes are intriguing but the future is Murray and Walker right? BPA would be Hayes. Nesmith would be the knockdown shooter. Okoro would be the defender. I have no clue who the Spurs would target.

1. Lamelo Ball- Lonzo Ball w/o deferring, less defense
2. Jaden McDaniels- Brandon Ingram
3. Anthony Edwards- Zach Lavine
4. Patrick Williams- Josh Smith
5. Tyrese Maxey- SG Tony Parker
6. Obi Toppin- John Collins with wiggle
7. Deni Avdija- Gordon Hayward
8. Theo Maledon- slower Tony Parker
9. James Wiseman McGee/ Whiteside mix
10. Onyeka Okongwu- Serge Ibaka
11. Killian Hayes-Goran Dragic
12. Tyrese Halliburton- Malcolm Brogdon
13. Issac Okoro- high iq Jonathan Simmons/ Iguodala
14. Aaron Nesmith- Bojan Bogdonovic
15. Kira Lewis- Jrue Holiday no length/ Aaron Brooks
16. Vernon Carey Jr.- Conditioned Al Jefferson
17. Josh Green- More athletic Danny Green
18. Jahmius Ramsey- green light Marcus Smart less intensity
19. Devin Vassel- Corey Brewer
20. RJ Hampton- taller Ish Smith
21. Cole Anthony- Anthony Simmons/ Patty Mills
22. Alesej Pokusuveski- Confident Bjelca/ Porzingis
23. Jalen Smith- Christian Wood
24. Josh Green- more Athletic Danny Green
25. Leandro Balmaro- Fast Jo Ingles/ Prigioni
26. Tyrell Terry- Seth Curry
27. Tyler Bey- athletic Andre Robeson
28. Xavier Tillman- Draymond less passing awareness
29. Paul Redd- little slower Jerami Grant
30. Precious Achiuwa- Josh Powell with a handle
31. Killian Tillie- Montiejunas
32. Saddiq Bey- Anthony Tolliver
33. Desmond Bane - less wiggle Dion Waiters
34. Nico Manion- Tyler Johnson
35. Immanuel Quickley- Austin Rivers
36. Jordan Nwora- Dillon Brooks
37. Skylar Mays- less athletic Gary Harris
38. Zeke Nahji- less explosive B. Clarke
39. Tre Jones- reverse Tyus Jones
40. Isaiah Stewart - less athletic, more iq Faried

[TD 21]

Barring some unforeseen medical issue, Haliburton and Hayes won't make it to 11, but theoretically speaking you don't let the presence of Murray and Walker stand in the way of snatching them up.

Who to keep long term can be sorted out later. In the meantime, the biggest long term need remains primary play maker (scorer too, but it's at least conceivable Walker could become that) and unlike the current youth, they could potentially develop into that.

Of the players I've zeroed in on at 11 or to trade up, I don't get the Vassell and Bey comps, but I agree with the Avdija one. Unfortunately, between his recent uptick from 3 (granted, small sample size) and the Spurs luck, I'm sure he'll best projections and go top 4, right in front of where they can probably conceivably trade up to.

[Dejounte]

Ive been studying Tyler Bey

If we trade away DeMar and Aldridge

I think Tyler is someone who the Spurs go for. Tyler is a midrange master who has a lot of post moves for a wing and the Spurs probably wont abandon their love for midrange scoring for good

Tyler's footwork in the post is something very few NBA players have

[Dejounte]

My dream draft would either be to draft Deni Avidja or trade down and draft both Precious Achiuwa and Tyler Bey.

Dejounte/ White
Lonnie/ Mills
Keldon/ Bey
Lyles/ Luka/ Precious
Poetl/ Aldridge

[twilo73]

If we lose a bunch of games in Orlando do we move up from 11th or are stops locked in since not all NBA teams going down to Florida tournament?

[FutureMan]

Here’s a breakdown of all the major mock drafts. After each name you can see the range of where they believe each player be selected. It is unlikely but there are a few exciting names that are in the 11th pick range (Hayes & Haliburton especially)

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-mock-draft-anthony-edwards-lamelo-ball-projections/

[exstatic]

If we lose a bunch of games in Orlando do we move up from 11th or are stops locked in since not all NBA teams going down to Florida tournament?

The only thing that can affect our draft position is to actually make the playoffs. We can jump from 13 to 9 in the West, get into the play in game, win the first one, drop the second one, fail to make the playoffs, and still be positioned at 11 for the lottery.

[twilo73]

The only thing that can affect our draft position is to actually make the playoffs. We can jump from 13 to 9 in the West, get into the play in game, win the first one, drop the second one, fail to make the playoffs, and still be positioned at 11 for the lottery.

Thanks... so no way to move up even if we lose all the games down in Florida... seems unfair. Here's hoping we move up with the lottery.

[exstatic]

Thanks... so no way to move up even if we lose all the games down in Florida... seems unfair. Here's hoping we move up with the lottery.

They want teams trying, not sandbagging.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

They want teams trying, not sandbagging.

2-6 if this group is trying. Time for the overhaul.

[talkspurs]

The only thing that can affect our draft position is to actually make the playoffs. We can jump from 13 to 9 in the West, get into the play in game, win the first one, drop the second one, fail to make the playoffs, and still be positioned at 11 for the lottery.

If washing on of Phoenix make the PO then we can move up. Washington has the better shot as the Nets are missing lots of players. That being said so is Washington.

[exstatic]

If washing on of Phoenix make the PO then we can move up. Washington has the better shot as the Nets are missing lots of players. That being said so is Washington.
Washington has zero chance with both Wall and Beal out. In addition, Bertans decided not to play, given his upcoming FA after the season. Phoenix is too far back, and I also don't believe they can beat any #8 team twice in a row, which the playin team has to do. If you look at the schedule, most of the play in teams have schedules heavy with current playoff teams. If you ask me my predictions, there will be no playin in the east, because Washington won't get within 4 games, and New Orleans will playin in the West, because the league wants it.

[TD 21]

Washington has zero chance with both Wall and Beal out. In addition, Bertans decided not to play, given his upcoming FA after the season. Phoenix is too far back, and I also don't believe they can beat any #8 team twice in a row, which the playin team has to do. If you look at the schedule, most of the play in teams have schedules heavy with current playoff teams. If you ask me my predictions, there will be no playin in the east, because Washington won't get within 4 games, and New Orleans will playin in the West, because the league wants it.

Speaking of what the league wants, it seems like every time a market has either had sustained success or built momentum only to be decimated by loss or debilitating injury of a superstar, they were almost immediately and conveniently rewarded with the #1 pick . . .

The Magic win the '92 and '93 lottery with generational prospect O'Neal and Webber (turned into Hardaway). They're gone in '96 and '99 respectively. They sign Hill and McGrady in '00. By '04, McGrady wants out and they win the lottery and select Howard. By '12, he wants out and is turned into Vucevic.

The Raptors, with Carter wanting out in '04, end up making arguably the most embarrassing trade of this magnitude until the Spurs bailed them out on multiple fronts 14 years later. In between, they win the '06 lottery and select Bargnani.

The Cavaliers, decimated by the departure of James in '10, win the '11 lottery and select Irving. They'd make it 3 in 4 by selecting Bennett in '13 and Wiggins in '14 respectively. Those two are turned into Love to facilitate the return of the prodigal son.

The Pelicans have Paul wanting out in '11. Owned by the league at the time, they nix a sub par trade with the Lakers. By '12, they win the lottery with generational prospect Davis. In '19, he wants out. They win the lottery with generational prospect Williamson and the Lakers move up in the lottery (somehow, 4 times in 5 year of picking near the top, they never moved back), making a trade with them more palatable.

That takes me to the Spurs. They win the '87 lottery and generational prospect Robinson. He suffers a career altering injury in '96 and they win the '97 lottery and generational prospect Duncan. In '18, Scumbag wants out, intentionally destroys his value and they make arguably the most infamous trade in sports, leaving them in shambles . . .

[Thomas82]

Just get James Wiseman in black and silver and I'm good.

[talkspurs]

Washington has zero chance with both Wall and Beal out. In addition, Bertans decided not to play, given his upcoming FA after the season. Phoenix is too far back, and I also don't believe they can beat any #8 team twice in a row, which the playin team has to do. If you look at the schedule, most of the play in teams have schedules heavy with current playoff teams. If you ask me my predictions, there will be no playin in the east, because Washington won't get within 4 games, and New Orleans will playin in the West, because the league wants it.

The nets are decimated by injuries. Washington and Phoenix both could make it in. If either does then we get a slightly better spot. The nets probably have the easiest schedule but of the two that could make it in a give us a better pick I would put it on washinton. I did not say that they will just that they could. BTW I think the nets have the easiest schedule.

[exstatic]

The nets are decimated by injuries. Washington and Phoenix both could make it in. If either does then we get a slightly better spot. The nets probably have the easiest schedule but of the two that could make it in a give us a better pick I would put it on washinton. I did not say that they will just that they could. BTW I think the nets have the easiest schedule.

Washington and Phoenix will not make the playoffs. We will not make the playoffs. We will enter the lottery positioned at #11.

[Sugus]

Washington and Phoenix will not make the playoffs. We will not make the playoffs. We will enter the lottery positioned at #11.

Isn't there a 2% chance for each of the top 4 lottery balls that could fall to the Spurs? It's a small chance, but Cleveland won 3 times out of 4 consecutive lotteries.

[talkspurs]

Washington and Phoenix will not make the playoffs. We will not make the playoffs. We will enter the lottery positioned at #11.

He asked if there was a way and there is. It may not be likely but there is a way.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/Yvngdevo/status/1284237884950806529

[offset formation]

https://twitter.com/Yvngdevo/status/1284237884950806529

Who is this?

[ace3g]

Who is this?

Devin Vassell

[Biggems]

Any chance we can bring Davis back? Do we want him back?

[offset formation]

Devin Vassell

https://www.nbascoutinglive.com/devin-vassell-scouting-report/

I had to laugh at this analysis of his cons given what I just witnessed on that video...

If that draft placement holds true, he could be available around 11.

[Dejounte]

If we draft a SF, it has to be one with a high ceiling and theres only one who is that and it's Deni.

I think the Spurs are going to build around Keldon as our SF of the future. Our guard positions are loaded and Keldon doesn't really have a spot there.

Otherwise, I think we will draft another tweener like Luka ahem Precious ahem in the upcoming draft. It just makes sense with the current roster makeup.

Our team is lacking size at the forward positions in a bad way. Vassell wont solve that and it isnt like he has elite athleticism either.

Dejounte/ Mills/ Quinndary
White/ Lonnie/ Forbes
DeMar/ Keldon
Lyles/ Gay/ Metu/ Samanic
Aldridge/ Poetl/ Zeller/ Eubanks

trade chips: Mills, Forbes, DeMar, Gay, Metu, Eubanks

I didnt include Lyles as a trade chip since we all know how the Spurs like to maximize the value of trash that they find out of nowhere and build up

We either need someone to uproot Lyles and Gay or draft a SF to backup Keldon in the future. Or even draft a backup SF who will transition easy between both forward spots (Deni or Precious)

[exstatic]

He asked if there was a way and there is. It may not be likely but there is a way.

It’s no more possible than those Philly ‘process’ teams making the playoffs during any of those long five years. Sure, every team starts 0-0 and has the possibility of making the playoffs, but no, they never were, just like PHO and WSH won’t make the playoffs after the restart.

[exstatic]

https://www.nbascoutinglive.com/devin-vassell-scouting-report/

I had to laugh at this analysis of his cons given what I just witnessed on that video...

If that draft placement holds true, he could be available around 11.

Tankathon has us picking him in their mock anytime we land at 11.

[offset formation]

Tankathon has us picking him in their mock anytime we land at 11.

Yeah, several services have him higher ranked than the NBA scouting site I posted above. If you read his Twitter feed, he seems like exactly the kind of guy the Spurs draft, and I bet they would -- if he's available...unless they try to go with a more prototypical PF or C type.

Kid might still grow a bit. He's not yet 20.

Looks like a Kyle Kuzma type scorer with a bit better defensive upside.

[Dejounte]

Vassell is a twig and yall expect him to guard the LeBrons and the Kawhis and the Giannises?

[Dejounte]

Matisse Thybulle was a better prospect than Vassell. You guys really want to waste a pick on this bust?

This dude literally averaged just 12 pts, 5 rbs, and 1 assist. Whats the fascination?

[Gibbz]

Any chance we can bring Davis back? Do we want him back?

Dollar figure gonna be far too high. He balled out this year.

[TD 21]

Vassell is a twig and yall expect him to guard the LeBrons and the Kawhis and the Giannises?

No pieces are set in stone long term and this franchise shouldn't be worried about James or even Scumbag because their timeline back to relevance likely doesn't coincide with the remainder of time either of them have left of it.

Antetokounmpo will probably remain in the East and mostly has to be defended by bigs anyway.



Matisse Thybulle was a better prospect than Vassell. You guys really want to waste a pick on this bust?

This dude literally averaged just 12 pts, 5 rbs, and 1 assist. Whats the fascination?

Nah, Vassell is 2 years younger, a significantly better shooter and his counting stats are irrelevant in the same way Bowen's/Green's were/are. Like them, he has a chance to be an elite, malleable role player and highly valuable modern archetype.

[Dejounte]

No pieces are set in stone long term and this franchise shouldn't be worried about James or even Scumbag because their timeline back to relevance likely doesn't coincide with the remainder of time either of them have left of it.

Antetokounmpo will probably remain in the East and mostly has to be defended by bigs anyway.




Nah, Vassell is 2 years younger, a significantly better shooter and his counting stats are irrelevant in the same way Bowen's/Green's were/are. Like them, he has a chance to be an elite, malleable role player and highly valuable modern archetype.

His advanced stats arent eye popping either for a prospect to be taken at the 11th pick.

Saying he can be a Bowen or Green can be said for just about any defensive prospect. Its cheap and lazy to say that.

[Dejounte]

No pieces are set in stone long term and this franchise shouldn't be worried about James or even Scumbag because their timeline back to relevance likely doesn't coincide with the remainder of time either of them have left of it.

Antetokounmpo will probably remain in the East and mostly has to be defended by bigs anyway.




Nah, Vassell is 2 years younger, a significantly better shooter and his counting stats are irrelevant in the same way Bowen's/Green's were/are. Like them, he has a chance to be an elite, malleable role player and highly valuable modern archetype.

Like i said in the above post, theres nothing spectacular about Vassell's advanced stats.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=devin-vassell--trevor-ariza--danny-green

This is comparing him to Danny Green and for the hell of it, Trevor Ariza. Who else do you want to compare him to? Danny blows Vassell out of the water. He is garbage.

Some of you are lazy as hell and should stick to regular season stuff and stay out of draft analyses. Clearly very few here spend time watching tape on these draft prospects. All they see are mock drafts (which are way off when the draft comes) or they go by player measurements (Nassir Little).

Lazy, lazy, lazy

[TD 21]

His advanced stats arent eye popping either for a prospect to be taken at the 11th pick.

Saying he can be a Bowen or Green can be said for just about any defensive prospect. Its cheap and lazy to say that.

Who cares about the number of the pick? It's all relative to a specific draft and what's available.

No, it can't. By all accounts, he looks and sounds like an impact defender and plus 3-point shooter. That's rare. There's plenty of pseudo ones, who are good at one or mediocre at both. There's not many that excel at both.



Like i said in the above post, theres nothing spectacular about Vassell's advanced stats.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=devin-vassell--trevor-ariza--danny-green

This is comparing him to Danny Green and for the hell of it, Trevor Ariza. Who else do you want to compare him to? Danny blows Vassell out of the water. He is garbage.

Some of you are lazy as hell and should stick to regular season stuff and stay out of draft analyses. Clearly very few here spend time watching tape on these draft prospects. All they see are mock drafts (which are way off when the draft comes) or they go by player measurements (Nassir Little).

Lazy, lazy, lazy

Those stats are comparable to Green's, who was more than 2 years older at the time, genius.

You seem to be under the impression that some future core is in place, it's just a matter of adding a specific piece and off they go contending again. The reality is, this is ground zero. They may not have a single future core piece in place. Either way, that's the approach they need to take into this draft and beyond.

[Dejounte]

Who cares about the number of the pick? It's all relative to a specific draft and what's available.

No, it can't. By all accounts, he looks and sounds like an impact defender and plus 3-point shooter. That's rare. There's plenty of pseudo ones, who are good at one or mediocre at both. There's not many that excel at both.




Those stats are comparable to Green's, who was more than 2 years older at the time, genius.

You seem to be under the impression that some future core is in place, it's just a matter of adding a specific piece and off they go contending again. The reality is, this is ground zero. They may not have a single future core piece in place. Either way, that's the approach they need to take into this draft and beyond.

If thats the impression I had, it totally contradicts why I am against drafting a mediocre prospect like Vassell. Youre saying he can be a solid role player, im saying AIM HIGHER. Im not sure how thats relevant to the discussion either way, since we are talking about whether Vassell is worth the 11th pick. He isn't.

[Dejounte]

I missed the earlier part of your post. Who cares what the number of the pick is? Wtf? It's the pick we are likely to have. I wouldnt touch Vassell with a 1st round pick, whether thats at #1 or at #30. Lets see who ends up being right again this year. I dont get why youre adamant of riding this guy's balls. There are better prospects. This guy isnt a rare find.

[Dejounte]

Even the character of this guy isnt anything to snuff at. He sounds like the second coming of Dejounte on his social media. Dude is all about himself and showcasing his mediocre skills.

[offset formation]

Like i said in the above post, theres nothing spectacular about Vassell's advanced stats.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=devin-vassell--trevor-ariza--danny-green

This is comparing him to Danny Green and for the hell of it, Trevor Ariza. Who else do you want to compare him to? Danny blows Vassell out of the water. He is garbage.

Some of you are lazy as hell and should stick to regular season stuff and stay out of draft analyses. Clearly very few here spend time watching tape on these draft prospects. All they see are mock drafts (which are way off when the draft comes) or they go by player measurements (Nassir Little).

Lazy, lazy, lazy

Take a look at his pros and cons on that Tankathon website review. Pretty impressive list with very few negatives. And certainly nothing the Spurs system couldn't halt and turn into a positive. But dude, his defensive potential is NBA ready now. And imagine how much better he could be given a couple years.

We will need a replacement for DeMar. Coming in with that D and a three point shot would be exactly what the Dr ordered, unless of course Poeltl leaves too and we will have no NBA quality starter at the 5.

I'd be cool with a 3, 4, or 5 in the draft, tbh.

Also, I don't think Danny Green is the right comparison. To me, as I said above, it's Kyle Kuzma. Homey is in his third year and likely the 3rd best player on that team behind Bron and Brow.

This kid might not be quite the scorer Kuzma has shown glimpses of, but I think his defensive potential, especially in the Spurs system, is what separates him.

[TD 21]

If thats the impression I had, it totally contradicts why I am against drafting a mediocre prospect like Vassell. Youre saying he can be a solid role player, im saying AIM HIGHER. Im not sure how thats relevant to the discussion either way, since we are talking about whether Vassell is worth the 11th pick. He isn't.


I missed the earlier part of your post. Who cares what the number of the pick is? Wtf? It's the pick we are likely to have. I wouldnt touch Vassell with a 1st round pick, whether thats at #1 or at #30. Lets see who ends up being right again this year. I dont get why youre adamant of riding this guy's balls. There are better prospects. This guy isnt a rare find.


Even the character of this guy isnt anything to snuff at. He sounds like the second coming of Dejounte on his social media. Dude is all about himself and showcasing his mediocre skills.

I'm saying, it's all relative. In this draft, the 11th pick isn't projected to yield someone with so much as a punchers chance at being more than a quality role player.

Saying he's not worth a 1st period is absurd and shows a total lack of understanding of what's valuable in the modern NBA. I'm not riding shit. Like I said a while ago, you either draft/develop your own 3 and D wings or you end up having to overpay pseudo ones like Carroll.

:lmao Right again? You're basing a draft off of 1 year, where the players in question were all 19 and mostly played in the G-League.

So you've stalked a 19 year old's social media and decided because he doesn't fit some (at best) narrow minded view of "character", he's a problem. This organization can't afford to be so arrogant and dismissive moving forward.

[Dejounte]

I'm saying, it's all relative. In this draft, the 11th pick isn't projected to yield someone with so much as a punchers chance at being more than a quality role player.

Saying he's not worth a 1st period is absurd and shows a total lack of understanding of what's valuable in the modern NBA. I'm not riding shit. Like I said a while ago, you either draft/develop your own 3 and D wings or you end up having to overpay pseudo ones like Carroll.

:lmao Right again? You're basing a draft off of 1 year, where the players in question were all 19 and mostly played in the G-League.

So you've stalked a 19 year old's social media and decided because he doesn't fit some (at best) narrow minded view of "character", he's a problem. This organization can't afford to be so arrogant and dismissive moving forward.

I've been right about busts since I've argued with someone about Brandon Roy over Rodney Carney (bet you dont even know him). Like I said, once again, we will see who is right.

[Dejounte]

Spurs have been known to:

1. Draft players with a skillset not common with their size (Luka, Kyle Anderson)
2. Draft players with unusual size for their position (Dejounte, Quinndary, George Hill)
3. Draft players with elite college numbers but other teams overlook due to stigma over age (White, add Manu and Tony here for stigma over international prospects)
4. Draft players with elite skills hidden by having other college stars on the same team (Keldon)
5. Draft players with out of this world athleticism (Lonnie, arguably Metu with his quick bounce)
6. Draft players with out of this world physical measurements (Kawhi)

Vassell fits none of the above.

[spurspl]

Spurs have been known to:

1. Draft players with a skillset not common with their size (Luka, Kyle Anderson)
2. Draft players with unusual size for their position (Dejounte, Quinndary, George Hill)
3. Draft players with elite college numbers but other teams overlook due to stigma over age (White, add Manu and Tony here for stigma over international prospects)
4. Draft players with elite skills hidden by having other college stars on the same team (Keldon)
5. Draft players with out of this world athleticism (Lonnie, arguably Metu with his quick bounce)
6. Draft players with out of this world physical measurements (Kawhi)

Vassell fits none of the above.

spurs drafted players who are humble and obedient, do whatever coach say. Thats all to keep a full control by pop. Thats why it is so hard to predict who will be chosen by spurs because we dont really know the players character.

[TD 21]

I've been right about busts since I've argued with someone about Brandon Roy over Rodney Carney (bet you dont even know him). Like I said, once again, we will see who is right.

Sure you have . . . how dare I not know about your world famous posting history going back 14+ years to either before you were on this board or were on it under a different username.

You being old enough to have debated the '06 draft is a revelation. :lmao At thinking Roy over Carney (freakishly athletic wing) is some claim to fame. If Roy didn't have severe knee issues, he'd have been a candidate for #1 overall along with Aldridge, Gay, Bargnani.



Spurs have been known to:

1. Draft players with a skillset not common with their size (Luka, Kyle Anderson)
2. Draft players with unusual size for their position (Dejounte, Quinndary, George Hill)
3. Draft players with elite college numbers but other teams overlook due to stigma over age (White, add Manu and Tony here for stigma over international prospects)
4. Draft players with elite skills hidden by having other college stars on the same team (Keldon)
5. Draft players with out of this world athleticism (Lonnie, arguably Metu with his quick bounce)
6. Draft players with out of this world physical measurements (Kawhi)

Vassell fits none of the above.

So basically, damn near everything under the sun. Vassell has good size for a "SG". As an "SF", he'd lack length/strength, but it all depends on the match-up.

Despite your obsession with Johnson, the only "elite skill" he has is motor. That's why he went 29 in a wing starved league, because of his lack of a standout skill/physical tools.

[Dejounte]

Sure you have . . . how dare I not know about your world famous posting history going back 14+ years to either before you were on this board or were on it under a different username.

You being old enough to have debated the '06 draft is a revelation. :lmao At thinking Roy over Carney (freakishly athletic wing) is some claim to fame. If Roy didn't have severe knee issues, he'd have been a candidate for #1 overall along with Aldridge, Gay, Bargnani.




So basically, damn near everything under the sun. Vassell has good size for a "SG". As an "SF", he'd lack length/strength, but it all depends on the match-up.

Despite your obsession with Johnson, the only "elite skill" he has is motor. That's why he went 29 in a wing starved league, because of his lack of a standout skill/physical tools.

Nice of you to nitpick and deflect using minor points from my posts. About Johnson, well, I'll let these upcoming years speak for themselves. The only thing I ask from you is to admit you were wrong when the time comes. Very many are prideful and never will admit when theyre wrong.

And no, its not damn near everything under the sun. There are many prospects that don't fit these criteria. Youre just too damn lazy to look, just like you are with these prospects. Your whole argument is basically "i like to write paragraphs just to cry about how much I disagree with your posts and nothing i write has any substance because i dont have time to research or make in depth correlation among patterns or players"

[Dejounte]

Lmfao at abusing hindsight by saying Roy would have been #1 without his knee issues. Now I know youre full of shit. Roy was an older rookie and there was no talk whatsoever BEFORE the draft that he could have been number 1 primarily due to his age. Do your research and stop making up shit.

[Dejounte]

Take a look at his pros and cons on that Tankathon website review. Pretty impressive list with very few negatives. And certainly nothing the Spurs system couldn't halt and turn into a positive. But dude, his defensive potential is NBA ready now. And imagine how much better he could be given a couple years.

We will need a replacement for DeMar. Coming in with that D and a three point shot would be exactly what the Dr ordered, unless of course Poeltl leaves too and we will have no NBA quality starter at the 5.

I'd be cool with a 3, 4, or 5 in the draft, tbh.

Also, I don't think Danny Green is the right comparison. To me, as I said above, it's Kyle Kuzma. Homey is in his third year and likely the 3rd best player on that team behind Bron and Brow.

This kid might not be quite the scorer Kuzma has shown glimpses of, but I think his defensive potential, especially in the Spurs system, is what separates him.

I respect your post because I know you take your time to actually study these players unlike this other loser. Im not sure if Kuzma is a good comparison though, as Kuzma was never known for defense. Also he has a lot more length. Look, I get it, Vassell has shown glimpses of good defensive play in college but again, its like a homeless man's Thybulle when comparing him from Thybulle's college play from last year. sure, he can shoot some 3's but its not that impressive.

Drafting Vassell is a great example of just settling for something average.

[Dejounte]

Ill leave this here:

https://youtu.be/MBycnRz_fpg

[TD 21]

Nice of you to nitpick and deflect using minor points from my posts. About Johnson, well, I'll let these upcoming years speak for themselves. The only thing I ask from you is to admit you were wrong when the time comes. Very many are prideful and never will admit when theyre wrong.

And no, its not damn near everything under the sun. There are many prospects that don't fit these criteria. Youre just too damn lazy to look, just like you are with these prospects. Your whole argument is basically "i like to write paragraphs just to cry about how much I disagree with your posts and nothing i write has any substance because i dont have time to research or make in depth correlation among patterns or players"

How so and wrong about what? He doesn't have any "elite skills", but that doesn't mean he can't become a good player.

You're just so determined to be confrontational and hostile that you're not even comprehending basic things. You come off as a petty, petulant, brat, throwing a tantrum every time someone doesn't agree with your delusional, inane comments.



Lmfao at abusing hindsight by saying Roy would have been #1 without his knee issues. Now I know youre full of shit. Roy was an older rookie and there was no talk whatsoever BEFORE the draft that he could have been number 1 primarily due to his age. Do your research and stop making up shit.

Except that's not what I said. I said he'd have been in contention. I remember some saying at the time he might be the best player in the draft.

:lmao At posting a clip of Calipari, who's inherently biased (and like any college coach, basically praising himself) and claiming I don't "do my research" but thinking someone who compared a 3 and D wing to Kuzma, does.

[Dejounte]

How so and wrong about what? He doesn't have any "elite skills", but that doesn't mean he can't become a good player.

You're just so determined to be confrontational and hostile that you're not even comprehending basic things. You come off as a petty, petulant, brat, throwing a tantrum every time someone doesn't agree with your delusional, inane comments.




Except that's not what I said. I said he'd have been in contention. I remember some saying at the time he might be the best player in the draft.

:lmao At posting a clip of Calipari, who's inherently biased (and like any college coach, basically praising himself) and claiming I don't "do my research" but thinking someone who compared a 3 and D wing to Kuzma, does.

Read what you wrote and look at yourself in the mirror.

And the guy who mentioned Kuzma has real substance if you referred to earlier in this thread. He made really good posts that involved research and intellect, unlike you.

[Dejounte]

Saying Keldon doesnt have an elite skill is your opinion, my opinion is he does. I believe that he happens to be our best scorer when dribbling and driving towards the basket. Soon, my belief is that the statistics will start to show that... As soon as he gets the minutes, and the reps. Watch his fg% to be in elite category in his prime.

Ive said this since the beginning. His drive game is a mirror image of Harden. Quote me in five years.

[TD 21]

Saying Keldon doesnt have an elite skill is your opinion, my opinion is he does. I believe that he happens to be our best scorer when dribbling and driving towards the basket. Soon, my belief is that the statistics will start to show that... As soon as he gets the minutes, and the reps. Watch his fg% to be in elite category in his prime.

Ive said this since the beginning. His drive game is a mirror image of Harden. Quote me in five years.

You were confrontational and hostile from the jump.

:lmao When "dribbling and driving towards the basket", from the guy trying to pass himself off as some sort of draft guru. DeRozan is easily the best Spur at the skill you so eloquently stated.

:lmao He couldn't be more different than Harden. He's a straight line driver, with tunnel vision, like Butler when he first entered the league or Powell.

[Dejounte]

Ah did you forget to look at yourself in the mirror? Look how much you struggle to provide your own input without trying to be dismissive and immature.

[TD 21]

Ah did you forget to look at yourself in the mirror? Look how much you struggle to provide your own input without trying to be dismissive and immature.

If you're going to dish it, you've got to be prepared to take it.

[bluebellmaniac]

29 days until the lottery...

[look_at_g_shred]

29 days until the lottery...

[BatManu20]

Spurs will prob reach on Theo Maledon and this place will melt down per par.

[bluebellmaniac]

27 days til the lottery!

[bluebellmaniac]

Alfredrick Hugh's...

[Prime BEEF]

Spurs will prob reach on Theo Maledon and this place will melt down per par.
Been thinking that’s who pop would pick for a while now. Either him or Aleksej.

[RVSTX]

Devin Vassell brings alot, his team d, iq, 3 pt shooting...his catch and shoot ability, and his work ethic...this kid was only a 3 star prospect...to a projected lottery pick...you gotta
love that. i am ok if the spurs go with him...maybe Achiewa, Hampton also at 11, I dont think any of the top 10 will drop to 11 except Cole Anthony who I wouldnt take.if the spurs trade down, Tyler Bey, Patrick Williams, or Pokusevski...

[TD 21]

To Nets: Aldridge

To Pistons: 11, White, Allen

To Spurs: 5, Kennard, Prince, Kurucs

If the Pistons remain at 5, this could make trading up plausible without DeRozan, in the event they're not interested or he's uncooperative on an extension.

[spurspl]

To Nets: Aldridge

To Pistons: 11, White, Allen

To Spurs: 5, Kennard, Prince, Kurucs

If the Pistons remain at 5, this could make trading up plausible without DeRozan, in the event they're not interested or he's uncooperative on an extension.

wont work financially, and moreover nets givin up a young center with a huge potential to be an all star for a 1yr of aldridge?? i dont think so

[Dejounte]

tier 1

1. Deni Avdija - has best chance to be a star, good fit on our team
2. Precious Achiuwa - combination of strength, speed, and length is needed on this team
3. Onyeka Okongwu - same as above, except probably not able to cover traditional centers due to lack of strength
4. Obi Toppin - eventual Aldridge replacement, would be a go to scorer big man but doesnt solve our defensive issues

tier 2
5. Patrick Williams - a worthy gamble, basically a Metu clone with a more natural, fluid shot
6. Tyler Bey - if we trade DeMar and the Spurs wanted another mid range master, then this guy is it

tier 3
7. Jalen Smith - typical stretch 4 with blocking skills
8. Reggie Perry - intriguing guard skills similar to Precious
9. Paul Reed - versatility on defense
10. Daniel Oturu - LaMarcus clone on offense
11. Xavier Tillman - if we give up on all our current centers

[TD 21]

wont work financially, and moreover nets givin up a young center with a huge potential to be an all star for a 1yr of aldridge?? i dont think so

It does work financially, Allen doesn't have All-Star potential and who said they couldn't possibly retain Aldridge beyond next season?

Either way, Durant and Irving are clearly running the organization, want a third star now, the former goes back a long ways with him and he's a relatively good fit.

[spurspl]

It does work financially, Allen doesn't have All-Star potential and who said they couldn't possibly retain Aldridge beyond next season?

Either way, Durant and Irving are clearly running the organization, want a third star now, the former goes back a long ways with him and he's a relatively good fit.

https://tradenba.com/trades/gQiEis-WD
via this paige it doesnt work

allen is 22 and averages almost double double plus is a decent defender right now. No injury prone, great body size. If he puts a lil more work hes an all star.
Moreover im not seeing LMA recontracting with Nets. His heart belongs to portland and him and dame wanna play together again.

[spurspl]

id take vassell/neismith/saddiq bey with our pick just to improve 3pt shooting. Then trade ddr for a deal that includes late 1st pick and draft one of big guys like jalen smith/williams/achiuwa to improve team size and defense. Thats what spurs team really needs right now.

The problem is that spurs are stucked with guards and in this yr draft are no PF/C that are worth a 11th pick. Trades are needed but as long as i know PATFO no trades will come and we get another guard. LMA stays, ddr and poetlt will be gone and next yr when lma also will be gone spurs will have zero valuable PF/C. And probably sign some old ass veterans.

[talkspurs]

for our second rd pick I am hoping Tyler Bey falls to us. He has high upside and even has somewhat of a high floor. biggest weakness is 3 pt shot but his % are not that bad.

[TD 21]

https://tradenba.com/trades/gQiEis-WD
via this paige it doesnt work

allen is 22 and averages almost double double plus is a decent defender right now. No injury prone, great body size. If he puts a lil more work hes an all star.
Moreover im not seeing LMA recontracting with Nets. His heart belongs to portland and him and dame wanna play together again.

That's because you didn't change the year to '20-'21.

I'm well aware of Allen and though a quality asset, the days of finishing/rim running C's being All-Stars are over. It's also not difficult to find serviceable replacements for cheap, especially for a team in their situation.

Aldridge's preference is the Trail Blazers now, but the Nets are located in a glamour market and have a higher upside. Give him a year with them and he might think differently.

If not, they still improve their odds of contending for a year for a relatively low cost and dump a bad contract (Prince) in the process.



id take vassell/neismith/saddiq bey with our pick just to improve 3pt shooting. Then trade ddr for a deal that includes late 1st pick and draft one of big guys like jalen smith/williams/achiuwa to improve team size and defense. Thats what spurs team really needs right now.

The problem is that spurs are stucked with guards and in this yr draft are no PF/C that are worth a 11th pick. Trades are needed but as long as i know PATFO no trades will come and we get another guard. LMA stays, ddr and poetlt will be gone and next yr when lma also will be gone spurs will have zero valuable PF/C. And probably sign some old ass veterans.

Given the lack of play making and possibly go to scoring, the only way to make this back court work long term, is to draft a wing who can serve in those roles, which is partially why they should be all in on Avdija.

That and his being foreign means if he does become a star, he's less likely to want to leave.

[Prime BEEF]

for our second rd pick I am hoping Tyler Bey falls to us. He has high upside and even has somewhat of a high floor. biggest weakness is 3 pt shot but his % are not that bad.
Agree would like Tyler Bey if he drops

[Prime BEEF]

To Nets: Aldridge

To Pistons: 11, White, Allen

To Spurs: 5, Kennard, Prince, Kurucs

If the Pistons remain at 5, this could make trading up plausible without DeRozan, in the event they're not interested or he's uncooperative on an extension.
Would rather keep white and trade Murray. But other than that I’m good with it

[talkspurs]

I would rather keep murray and trade white but would not do that trade anyway.

[Thomas82]

I just want James Wiseman in this draft and I'm good.

[Dancelot]

With the bubble league is it possible Phoenix passes us in the standings having us drafting at 10? Because the way we’re looking now, we might end up going 0-8.

[Degoat]

With the bubble league is it possible Phoenix passes us in the standings having us drafting at 10? Because the way we’re looking now, we might end up going 0-8.

I might be mistaken but I don’t think so, the only way draft position changes is if say the suns actually made the playoffs

[spurspl]

That's because you didn't change the year to '20-'21.

I'm well aware of Allen and though a quality asset, the days of finishing/rim running C's being All-Stars are over. It's also not difficult to find serviceable replacements for cheap, especially for a team in their situation.

Aldridge's preference is the Trail Blazers now, but the Nets are located in a glamour market and have a higher upside. Give him a year with them and he might think differently.

If not, they still improve their odds of contending for a year for a relatively low cost and dump a bad contract (Prince) in the process.




Given the lack of play making and possibly go to scoring, the only way to make this back court work long term, is to draft a wing who can serve in those roles, which is partially why they should be all in on Avdija.

That and his being foreign means if he does become a star, he's less likely to want to leave.

oh ok, my mistake.

about lack of playmaking: imo thats all bc of murray. Hes a point guard and its must have to have a playmaking ability for this position. If we draft avdija, it aint gonna improve playmaking nor 3pt shooting nor defense. These two guys do not complement each other. Id prefer to have an Avdija than murray but if murray stays than spurs should be looking for a 3pt shooter.

BTW imo murray makes this rebuild much more difficult. He has some pros and cons but he does not fit to any position. For a PG - lack of playmaking, for a SG - lack of 3pt shooting, for a SF - lack of sizes and strength.

[spurspl]

Would rather keep white and trade Murray. But other than that I’m good with it

who would u draft with this 5th pick?

[TD 21]

oh ok, my mistake.

about lack of playmaking: imo thats all bc of murray. Hes a point guard and its must have to have a playmaking ability for this position. If we draft avdija, it aint gonna improve playmaking nor 3pt shooting nor defense. These two guys do not complement each other. Id prefer to have an Avdija than murray but if murray stays than spurs should be looking for a 3pt shooter.

BTW imo murray makes this rebuild much more difficult. He has some pros and cons but he does not fit to any position. For a PG - lack of playmaking, for a SG - lack of 3pt shooting, for a SF - lack of sizes and strength.

More than likely, Murray's only path to being a passable offensive player is become a solid spot up three-point shooter (basically, a bigger/more athletic Beverley). He's never going to become a primary play maker because that's more innate and he clearly doesn't have the feel/skill for it.

Putting a 3 and D wing next to him would leave virtually no path to building an above average offense.

[tim_duncan_fan]

More than likely, Murray's only path to being a passable offensive player is become a solid spot up three-point shooter (basically, a bigger/more athletic Beverley). He's never going to become a primary play maker because that's more innate and he clearly doesn't have the feel/skill for it.

Putting a 3 and D wing next to him would leave virtually no path to building an above average offense.

Quindarry has looked like a player in the very limited time I have seen him. If Murray doesn't start looking more than just slightly above average every couple of games, he may get usurped.

I am convinced Derrick and Keldon need to be out there most of the game. It is now on the two flashier guys, Lonnie and Dejounte to find some consistency.

[Ditty]

It’s most likely going to be Theo (Parker’s Team) unless Deni drops or Spurs get lucky and move up in the lottery.

Probably means the end of Forbes or Mills finally.

Murray could be on the block next summer if he’s only decent a good amount of the time.

[Dejounte]

It takes one franchise player to turn a team around. Look at Dallas, without Doncic they would be a garbage team. To say this team needs to be replaced all of its players is false. They will all instantly improve with a real star in front of them.

[cd021]

It takes one franchise player to turn a team around. Look at Dallas, without Doncic they would be a garbage team. To say this team needs to be replaced all of its players is false. They will all instantly improve with a real star in front of them.

Who's saying to replace all of the players? The Spurs have several nice prospects that can be on the next good Spurs team but they'll likely have to bottom out to get that super-star if they want to be a contender again.

[cd021]

Would rather keep white and trade Murray. But other than that I’m good with it


I would rather keep murray and trade white but would not do that trade anyway.

I'd still rather have Murray than White long term tbh.

White projects to be a good two-way player for a long time but Murray's ceiling is still higher and is 3 years younger. White's situation reminds me a lot of George Hill, Spurs really should consider packaging White and the 11th pick to try and move up.

[Dejounte]

Who's saying to replace all of the players? The Spurs have several nice prospects that can be on the next good Spurs team but they'll likely have to bottom out to get that super-star if they want to be a contender again.

Just look in the game threads.

[Dejounte]

You dont need a top pick for a franchise player. Sure, gives you a better chance but you have two of the top three teams led by players who werent drafted in the top ten.

And before anyone says this is a weak draft, meh I think people say that every year.

[spurspl]

It takes one franchise player to turn a team around. Look at Dallas, without Doncic they would be a garbage team. To say this team needs to be replaced all of its players is false. They will all instantly improve with a real star in front of them.

true and thats why i said its worth to tank for the players like doncic. Now we have no player who can be a core and a star of this franchise.

[spurspl]

I'd still rather have Murray than White long term tbh.

White projects to be a good two-way player for a long time but Murray's ceiling is still higher and is 3 years younger. White's situation reminds me a lot of George Hill, Spurs really should consider packaging White and the 11th pick to try and move up.

maybe murray is and will be slighlty better than white but keep in mind that white will be much cheaper to keep him.

[cd021]

maybe murray is and will be slighlty better than white but keep in mind that white will be much cheaper to keep him.

I don't think White's ceiling is that high tbh. He strikes me as a solid starter good bench player. That's perfectly fine but I think Murray's ceiling is still higher and he's several years younger.

[TD 21]

Quindarry has looked like a player in the very limited time I have seen him. If Murray doesn't start looking more than just slightly above average every couple of games, he may get usurped.

I am convinced Derrick and Keldon need to be out there most of the game. It is now on the two flashier guys, Lonnie and Dejounte to find some consistency.

Nah, they're too invested in Murray for that to happen. He's actually not flashy, which is part of the problem. Virtually no shake/wiggle, lacks burst too and despite the improving shot, it's far from threatening and the release is slow.

Walker's been good. His shot looks even better than before and he's suddenly showing adept secondary play making skills. Since his ball skills are relatively rudimentary though, his ceiling is probably 2nd option on a good team.



I don't think White's ceiling is that high tbh. He strikes me as a solid starter good bench player. That's perfectly fine but I think Murray's ceiling is still higher and he's several years younger.

I agree on White, but I don't see how Murray's ceiling is beyond solid starter. He literally has no offensive strength and players who go beyond that threshold almost always show at least glimpses of it 193 games/3779 minutes into their career.

[objective]

To Nets: Aldridge

To Pistons: 11, White, Allen

To Spurs: 5, Kennard, Prince, Kurucs

If the Pistons remain at 5, this could make trading up plausible without DeRozan, in the event they're not interested or he's uncooperative on an extension.

I think I would strongly oppose this trade.

I think White is better than Kennard, and by a decent margin. They have the same contract length so no benefit there.

Prince is okay, Kurucs is just a guy. Prince would have been worth getting to play SF when they were allegedly competing with Aldridge and DDR, not now.

Giving up 11 and Aldridge just to get 5 in this draft? No thanks.

But I'm sure they're going to get fleeced when they do trade White anyway, and look like fools as they tend to have done with trades lately.

[talkspurs]

Prince is only 26 so he would not be bad with the younger players.

[TD 21]

I think I would strongly oppose this trade.

I think White is better than Kennard, and by a decent margin. They have the same contract length so no benefit there.

Prince is okay, Kurucs is just a guy. Prince would have been worth getting to play SF when they were allegedly competing with Aldridge and DDR, not now.

Giving up 11 and Aldridge just to get 5 in this draft? No thanks.

But I'm sure they're going to get fleeced when they do trade White anyway, and look like fools as they tend to have done with trades lately.

White is better than Kennard because he's a significantly better defender, but Kennard is a better shooter and comparable play maker (he'd also spell the end of Forbes).

Prince and Kurucs are both filler/worthy fliers and as young, relatively athletic/big wings and decent shooters they'd plug short term needs. It's also possible one becomes a fixture beyond that.

I'm not entirely sold on Avdija, but I think he checks too many boxes and is attainable enough that he's worth pursuing. If they think he can become a star or close, good luck getting that for Aldridge otherwise.

[spurspl]

White is better than Kennard because he's a significantly better defender, but Kennard is a better shooter and comparable play maker (he'd also spell the end of Forbes).

Prince and Kurucs are both filler/worthy fliers and as young, relatively athletic/big wings and decent shooters they'd plug short term needs. It's also possible one becomes a fixture beyond that.

I'm not entirely sold on Avdija, but I think he checks too many boxes and is attainable enough that he's worth pursuing. If they think he can become a star or close, good luck getting that for Aldridge otherwise.

but we desperately need a shooter. we have a defensive guard in murray + we can draft a solid defensive SF via draft.

[TimDunkem]

we can draft a solid defensive SF via draft.
They're going to go with whoever has the fattest head or stupidest hair. Book it.

[Prime BEEF]

who would u draft with this 5th pick?
The best available players likely to be there at the 5th pick are Haliburton, Toppin, and Okongwu. If we trade away LMA then we’ll need get one of the bigs. I’d pick Toppin in this specific scenario.

[FutureMan]

The best available players likely to be there at the 5th pick are Haliburton, Toppin, and Okongwu. If we trade away LMA then we’ll need get one of the bigs. I’d pick Toppin in this specific scenario.

A few mock drafts also have Avdija & Hayes at 5 too. I’ve even seen a couple that have Wiseman falling to 5 as well (I personally wouldn’t count on that happening though)

[spurspl]

They're going to go with whoever has the fattest head or stupidest hair. Book it.

wont be surprised

nico mannion welcome to spurs

[TD 21]

but we desperately need a shooter. we have a defensive guard in murray + we can draft a solid defensive SF via draft.


More than likely, Murray's only path to being a passable offensive player is become a solid spot up three-point shooter (basically, a bigger/more athletic Beverley). He's never going to become a primary play maker because that's more innate and he clearly doesn't have the feel/skill for it.

Putting a 3 and D wing next to him would leave virtually no path to building an above average offense.

[gambit1990]

[wrong thread]

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/thegeorgeyou/status/1286050813891272707

[Chinook]

Not at 11. But if some trade happens like DMDR for 20 (and I think it could because BKN is going to be looking for a third star to appease Durant and Irving), then I'm fine with getting the best big. 11 (or whatever the team's natural pick ends up being) should be BPA, but the team needs to come out of this off-season with an actual rotational big on a long-term deal -- and that's assuming that all of LMA, Poeltl and Lyles return. If any of them are gone, the team will need another starter to replace them.

[Seventyniner]

Not at 11. But if some trade happens like DMDR for 20 (and I think it could because BKN is going to be looking for a third star to appease Durant and Irving), then I'm fine with getting the best big. 11 (or whatever the team's natural pick ends up being) should be BPA, but the team needs to come out of this off-season with an actual rotational big on a long-term deal -- and that's assuming that all of LMA, Poeltl and Lyles return. If any of them are gone, the team will need another starter to replace them.

I expect Aldridge and Lyles to be back because it would be difficult to impossible to find better players at their respective salaries in free agency. Poeltl will depend on how okay he is with coming off the bench for another year and how much money he wants. The MLE could come into play too, and this time I hope the Spurs can land a decent player who won't renege. I haven't paid much attention to the free agency list though.

If both Aldridge and Poeltl are back I would be okay with a PF in the draft as opposed to a C. The forward spots, as always, would be the weakest ones on the team.

[TD 21]

I can't think of a worse possible fit for the Nets than DeRozan.

What they need, is someone who can space the floor for Durant and Irving and at least be a neutral defender.

In order to derive any value whatsoever, DeRozan has to have the ball and they're obviously not going to turn two superior on ball options into floor spacers.

[Chinook]

I can't think of a worse possible fit for the Nets than DeRozan.

What they need, is someone who can space the floor for Durant and Irving and at least be a neutral defender.

In order to derive any value whatsoever, DeRozan has to have the ball and they're obviously not going to turn two superior on ball options into floor spacers.

The Nets aren't going to make a trade to get better on the court. Marks already put together a team that would've worked fine for Durant and Irving. The two stars basically took over the team. That's the only way to explain letting Atkinson go and courting Mark Jackson. They're going to go for a third star, and I'm sure Marks will try to get someone like Beal first. Maybe he'll even skip down and try to snag CJ McCollum. DeRozan, for all his flaws fits what the Nets are likely to be looking for, including being cheap enough to acquire that Marks could still have some pieces left to make legit moves.

Ideally, it would be something like Levert, Prince and 20 for DeRozan and Metu. It's possible that it'd be as low as Dinwiddie, Prince and one of Claxton, Kurus or Musa for DeRozan, with the Spurs having to eat Metu's salary. You could argue that either deal is worth doing for both sides. If you do the latter deal add 20 and Metu into the deal, I think it would split the difference between Brooklyn not committing too much and SA gaining legit option value.

[Chinook]

I expect Aldridge and Lyles to be back because it would be difficult to impossible to find better players at their respective salaries in free agency. Poeltl will depend on how okay he is with coming off the bench for another year and how much money he wants. The MLE could come into play too, and this time I hope the Spurs can land a decent player who won't renege. I haven't paid much attention to the free agency list though.

If both Aldridge and Poeltl are back I would be okay with a PF in the draft as opposed to a C. The forward spots, as always, would be the weakest ones on the team.

I think all three will be back. Poeltl isn't likely to get more than the QO, and I think the Spurs are comfortable giving him that. After that, maybe he's gone. Lyles would be cut on a different team, because I think most GMs would be comfortable with trying to sign Trey back for the minimum. PATFO probably thinks he's been good enough to not rock the boat.

I am hoping that BPA at 11ish will be a 6-9 combo-forward with potential on offense but enough production on D to replace Lyles in the starting lineup. Even if that happens, I'd still like them to acquire a second first-rounder and use it on the best-available center. Simply put, they need to replenish that pipeline. I guess they could bring in Milutinov, but not only do I think that ship has sailed, I also don't really think he'd be much better than Eubanks or Zeller if he came over anyway. If that's true, then I'd totally want a new young guy on a four-year deal. I like Keldon a lot, but I really wish Goga had fallen or that the Spurs drafted a wing at 19 and used 29 on Claxton or Kabengele.

And yes, still tilted about them passing on Brandon Clarke. Just like I was tilted on them passing on Harrell in 2015.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Ideally, it would be something like Levert, Prince and 20 for DeRozan and Metu. It's possible that it'd be as low as Dinwiddie, Prince and one of Claxton, Kurus or Musa for DeRozan, with the Spurs having to eat Metu's salary. You could argue that either deal is worth doing for both sides. If you do the latter deal add 20 and Metu into the deal, I think it would split the difference between Brooklyn not committing too much and SA gaining legit option value.

Any of these would be great value. I fear that's a tad bit optimistic, though.

[spurspl]

Ideally, it would be something like Levert, Prince and 20 for DeRozan and Metu. It's possible that it'd be as low as Dinwiddie, Prince and one of Claxton, Kurus or Musa for DeRozan, with the Spurs having to eat Metu's salary. You could argue that either deal is worth doing for both sides. If you do the latter deal add 20 and Metu into the deal, I think it would split the difference between Brooklyn not committing too much and SA gaining legit option value.

levert is already much better than ddr...
imo ddr in nets just look good on paper but in reality it would be a disaster for a nets

[spurspl]

https://twitter.com/thegeorgeyou/status/1286050813891272707

maybe he has some skills that are not common for a 7ft but hes skinnier that a top model and looks like hes gonna break his legs every single step. One stroneger defense with a guy like zion, drummond, embiid etc and hes career is over.

[absoloot66]

https://twitter.com/thegeorgeyou/status/1286050813891272707

About 2 of that 7 feet is from the shoulders up - dude got a big 'ol head:p:

[TimDunkem]

Pick the BPA whether that's a 3 or a 4.

[Chinook]

Any of these would be great value. I fear that's a tad bit optimistic, though.

Prince is negative value, so the second deal really depends on if one of those young players really interest the Spurs. While Dinwiddie is good enough, the Spurs don't need his skill-set if they are rebuilding. He's basically filler unless a third team wants him.

[TD 21]

The Nets aren't going to make a trade to get better on the court. Marks already put together a team that would've worked fine for Durant and Irving. The two stars basically took over the team. That's the only way to explain letting Atkinson go and courting Mark Jackson. They're going to go for a third star, and I'm sure Marks will try to get someone like Beal first. Maybe he'll even skip down and try to snag CJ McCollum. DeRozan, for all his flaws fits what the Nets are likely to be looking for, including being cheap enough to acquire that Marks could still have some pieces left to make legit moves.

Ideally, it would be something like Levert, Prince and 20 for DeRozan and Metu. It's possible that it'd be as low as Dinwiddie, Prince and one of Claxton, Kurus or Musa for DeRozan, with the Spurs having to eat Metu's salary. You could argue that either deal is worth doing for both sides. If you do the latter deal add 20 and Metu into the deal, I think it would split the difference between Brooklyn not committing too much and SA gaining legit option value.

I know they took over the team, but I'm going to guess they're intelligent enough to realize that DeRozan would be the worst possible fit alongside them (as far as I know, he's not friends with them either). They already have tertiary play making in Dinwiddie (if not traded first, probably walks in a year) and LeVert and those two actually shoot 3s.

DeRozan, like Aldridge, probably isn't fetching two assets (LeVert and 20) and neither LeVert nor Dinwiddie make much sense for the Spurs, so they'd probably pull in a third team in this scenario.

Check your PM's.

[Chinook]

I know they took over the team, but I'm going to guess they're intelligent enough to realize that DeRozan would be the worst possible fit alongside them (as far as I know, he's not friends with them either). They already have tertiary play making in Dinwiddie (if not traded first, probably walks in a year) and LeVert and those two actually shoot 3s.

I think you should guess again. There's no doubt in my mind that on paper the Nets should have won the East if they were healthy. Marks did a good job building a supporting cast in one off-season. But he also hired a good coach. KD and KI don't want change to fit them on the court. They just want talent. If DeRozan is best Marks can get, he'll be the guy. Incidentally, LMA is another guy they could target, but I think DeRozan makes more sense given LMA's play style and the presence of Allen and Jordan.

Remember that the current owner didn't hire Marks. Sean could well see his job on the line if he doesn't accommodate his best players.


DeRozan, like Aldridge, probably isn't fetching two assets (LeVert and 20) and neither LeVert nor Dinwiddie make much sense for the Spurs, so they'd probably pull in a third team in this scenario.

I think that first DeRozan trade I mentioned would be a tremendous haul for sure. But I also think that it's not that much for any better "star". Like I don't think it gets Beal, and I don't think guys like Musa and Claxton close that gap. Unless a team is strapped for cash and is willing to dump someone good (like maybe Oladipo?), I don't see a market friendly to snatching up a star this year.

I think LeVert makes sense in the "he's better than the guys already on the team" way. You make that trade and look for someone to take White/Murray. Who knows that an Aldridge deal would look like? It's possible that any of the young guards on the team is part of that (like the one you proposed with Detroit). I agree on Dinwiddie though. Lucky for SA, I think they'd be able to get positive value for him.


Check your PM's.

Yeah, waiting on a reply.

[TD 21]

I think you should guess again. There's no doubt in my mind that on paper the Nets should have won the East if they were healthy. Marks did a good job building a supporting cast in one off-season. But he also hired a good coach. KD and KI don't want change to fit them on the court. They just want talent. If DeRozan is best Marks can get, he'll be the guy. Incidentally, LMA is another guy they could target, but I think DeRozan makes more sense given LMA's play style and the presence of Allen and Jordan.

Remember that the current owner didn't hire Marks. Sean could well see his job on the line if he doesn't accommodate his best players.



I think that first DeRozan trade I mentioned would be a tremendous haul for sure. But I also think that it's not that much for any better "star". Like I don't think it gets Beal, and I don't think guys like Musa and Claxton close that gap. Unless a team is strapped for cash and is willing to dump someone good (like maybe Oladipo?), I don't see a market friendly to snatching up a star this year.

I think LeVert makes sense in the "he's better than the guys already on the team" way. You make that trade and look for someone to take White/Murray. Who knows that an Aldridge deal would look like? It's possible that any of the young guards on the team is part of that (like the one you proposed with Detroit). I agree on Dinwiddie though. Lucky for SA, I think they'd be able to get positive value for him.



Yeah, waiting on a reply.

Durant had already torn his Achilles when they signed him. Most of their supporting cast was already in place and it was solid in terms of talent, less so in fit. Also, how do you know those two don't value fit? It's one thing to throw it out the window for overwhelming talent, but this wouldn't be that.

Aldridge is a much better fit because he can actually space the floor and given the stakes, is still probably capable of neutral defense. Allen would have to be in the trade obviously.

It's not much for a real star. It is for a pseudo one who'd be an awful fit.

You could argue that with LeVert, but he's almost 26, with an extensive injury history and awful efficiency. I'd look to package him with 11 for 5 and give the on ball reps to Avdija, Walker, Johnson.

Thanks.

[cd021]

I agree on White, but I don't see how Murray's ceiling is beyond solid starter. He literally has no offensive strength and players who go beyond that threshold almost always show at least glimpses of it 193 games/3779 minutes into their career.

I still have no idea what Murray's ceiling is tbh but I still think its higher than White's. He doesn't have a discernable skill on offense, though his shooting improvement looks to be for real (he shot 47% on mid-range jumpers and 37% on 3's.)

He hasn't been all that good this season, still, he averaged 10.7 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 4.1 apg, 1.7 spg in just 25 mpg. That isn't to say that he'll a better player just because he fills up the stat sheet but that's not nothing. This is really only his second season as a starter and he's spent that coming back from an ACL injury. I'm curious to see what he can do next season playing 30+ mpg.

[TD 21]

I still have no idea what Murray's ceiling is tbh but I still think its higher than White's. He doesn't have a discernable skill on offense, though his shooting improvement looks to be for real (he shot 47% on mid-range jumpers and 37% on 3's.)

He hasn't been all that good this season, still, he averaged 10.7 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 4.1 apg, 1.7 spg in just 25 mpg. That isn't to say that he'll a better player just because he fills up the stat sheet but that's not nothing. This is really only his second season as a starter and he's spent that coming back from an ACL injury. I'm curious to see what he can do next season playing 30+ mpg.

Fair enough. Most catch all metrics would point to that too because they're mostly similar despite the age/experience gap (although Murray has played slightly more in the NBA).

Still, I think the hope is he develops into what White already is, which is a competent shooter/play maker. But he just doesn't have as good a feel/IQ, which can't be taught.

[cd021]

Fair enough. Most catch all metrics would point to that too because they're mostly similar despite the age/experience gap (although Murray has played slightly more in the NBA).

Still, I think the hope is he develops into what White already is, which is a competent shooter/play maker. But he just doesn't have as good a feel/IQ, which can't be taught.

At this point, it seems clear to me that Murray's future should be as a secondary play-maker. He doesn't have great handles or even average, consistent, play-making. That's why those shooting numbers are so important. Spotting up from 3 when he doesn't have the ball and being a threat to get to the rim, or at least knock down a mid-range jumper when he does.

White still projects as a good starter, above average bench guard. He is much more of a natural play-maker, though his aggression wanes at times. The question becomes who has a better ceiling at those roles. I think its Murray.

[Dejounte]

Anyone know how much we drop from the 11th pick if we make the playoffs? 14th pick?

[exstatic]

Anyone know how much we drop from the 11th pick if we make the playoffs? 14th pick?

15th, at best. 14 is still a lottery pick.

I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it.

[bluebellmaniac]

26 days til the lottery! (I was previously off by a few days)