Official 2014 Free Agency Thread

[CGD]

It's interesting that it's all quiet of the Evan turner front. I know the guy's stock is at an all time low, but he has reclamation project written all over him. Weren't the spurs interested at some point?

[Obstructed_View]

Sorry for the triple post, but I just saw that Ekpe Udoh is considering contenders and was going to sign with LAC before they re-signed Glen Davis. What would y'all think about getting Udoh if Baynes ends up going elsewhere?

I like Ekpe. I watched him in college. He's a fouler. Spurs fans will hate him unless the team can suddenly turn him into something he's hasn't been since he was at Baylor. People worry about Baynes being too old to improve. Udoh is 27.

[spursfan4ever]

Do the Spurs still have the MLE and the BLE (sorry if I got the acronyms wrong)? Signing Matty and eventually signing back Baynes does not effect what we have left to spend, right?

[Obstructed_View]

NBA is fuckd now that Love is a Cav!!

All that defense being played by Lebron and none of his teammates.

[FireMicoHalili]

Do the Spurs still have the MLE and the BLE (sorry if I got the acronyms wrong)? Signing Matty and eventually signing back Baynes does not effect what we have left to spend, right?

The BAE, yessir

[Robz4000]

Yop, Love on the Cavs doesn't really improve their chances against SA/Meth. Even without him they had a solid chance of getting out of the East.

[Obstructed_View]

Yop, Love on the Cavs doesn't really improve their chances against SA/Meth. Even without him they had a solid chance of getting out of the East.

Yep, having Love might get them a better record than Miami. Don't know that it helps them in the playoffs. At least we'll see a motivated Wiggins this year.

[SpursFan86]

http://rubechat.kfan.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=279082

Tspence found a new fanbase...lmao

[Mel_13]

And he gets a de-facto no-trade clause. Not a bad deal at all.

It was a no-brainer for Seraphin. Meanwhile, Washington just gave 3.8M with a no-trade clause to a guy to be their 6th big.

[ace3g]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Just heard Bulls are indeed in process of finalizing deal to sign free-agent guard Aaron Brooks to add some scoring off the bench

[Chinook]

I think that would be a pretty solid move from Chicago. They can also take a flier or two on some of the scoring guards in the summer league.

[elemento]

Brooks was very solid a few years back with Houston.

Manu destroyed his career tbh :lol

[TD 21]

I think it depends on the cost. Moving Lee, Thompson and Barnes (unless Minny wants Thompson in place of Barnes) is a pretty high cost for a lateral move. Love is better than Lee but its no like Lee is a bad player. He is a good rebounder and passer and can put up 20 points without being the focal point of an offense. Barnes isn't that good but, i guess, still has potential. Green and Iggy make him expendable. Thompson is a two way player, that could probably be a top 10 scorer on a bad team right now.

If Minny is offering Love and Martin, then that's still not enough to make it worthwhile for GSW. Martin is a lesser version of Thompson, who is currently making more and is under contract for another season after next for $7+ million.

If its just Lee and Barnes (and maybe a future 1st rounder) for Love then thats a trade than makes sense for GSW. They get Love to pair with Curry in P&Rs, keep Thompson and have Livingston as a 6th man off the bench.

From what i've heard its probably going to be Bennett and Wiggins along with a first rounder next season for Love. If thats want Minny is willing to do ,then its better to get the deal done prior to training camp.

The rumor last month was Thompson, Lee and a 1st for Love and Martin. The Warriors are flat out over thinking this. Leaving the '14 Spurs out of this, since they're virtually incomparable in at least the modern era and impossible to duplicate, you don't win in this league with good; you win with great. Not that either Love or Curry are Jordan, O'Neal, Duncan, James, etc., but they're as close as the Warriors can get to a star of that magnitude.

I'd be surprised if the Cavs gave up all three of those things. I suspect they're willing to part with any two of those things, but not all three.

From the Timberwolves perspective, if Saunders does what's best for the franchise and not himself, he trades Love to the Cavaliers.

[cd021]

The rumor last month was Thompson, Lee and a 1st for Love and Martin. The Warriors are flat out over thinking this. Leaving the '14 Spurs out of this, since they're virtually incomparable in at least the modern era and impossible to duplicate, you don't win in this league with good; you win with great. Not that either Love or Curry are Jordan, O'Neal, Duncan, James, etc., but they're as close as the Warriors can get to a star of that magnitude.

I'd be surprised if the Cavs gave up all three of those things. I suspect they're willing to part with any two of those things, but not all three.

From the Timberwolves perspective, if Saunders does what's best for the franchise and not himself, he trades Love to the Cavaliers.

"
The Minnesota Timberwolves and Cleveland Cavaliers have discussed a blockbuster trade centered on Kevin Love and the league's past two No. 1 draft picks, league sources told ESPN.


In an attempt to add Love, a three-time All-Star, the Cavaliers are willing to part with Andrew Wiggins and Anthony Bennett .

One source said the Cavs also are willing to give up a first-round draft pick for next season. Any other players involved in the talks are not known."


http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11232868/cleveland-cavaliers-minnesota-timberwolves-talking-trade-involving-kevin-love-andrew-wiggins-anthony-bennett

It would be interesting to see if they would include Waiters to expand the deal to include Kevin Martin (A less outspoken personality and still a very productive player). Thats a very good deal ,either way, for the Wolves if it goes down.

As Gold Standard mentioned that if Minny moves Love that it would make some sense to shop Pekovic (I think the Suns would be a great trade partner).

Moving Pekovic to Phoenix for Alex Len, Suns 1st rounder in 2015, + Lakers (top 5 protected pick) 2015 pick.


That would give the Wolves plenty of young prospects including Mohammed, Dieng, LaVine, Wiggins, Bennett & Len. Along with 4 first round picks next season.


As for the Love to GSW deal, I understand you point but I still think that Love for Thompson and Lee is a lateral move

Curry-Livingston-Iggy-Love-Bogut

with Barnes-Green-Ezeli as their bench rotation

Thompson is a very good two way player. He also ranked 7th in scoring amongst SGs. Keeping Thompson also allows for Livingston to come off the bench as their backup PG & SG.

Lee posted 18 ppg and 9 rpg. They I think their trajectory is basically the same. If everything goes right, then they can challenge for home court in the first round and depending on the match up they can get to the second round.

[Sean88888]

Is anyone else a bit sad that Mavs were able to sign Rashard Lewis to a 1 year, $1.4M contract? I thought he was one of the few bright spots for the Heat in the Finals. I wouldn't mind getting him to replace Bonner at all, especially at that contract. He's a solid defender and a good 3pt shooter, and he doesn't get shy on big occasions.

[SpursFan86]

Is anyone else a bit sad that Mavs were able to sign Rashard Lewis to a 1 year, $1.4M contract? I thought he was one of the few bright spots for the Heat in the Finals. I wouldn't mind getting him to replace Bonner at all, especially at that contract. He's a solid defender and a good 3pt shooter, and he doesn't get shy on big occasions.

Ehh, considering we got Bonner for the vet min and he already knows the system inside and out, I'm perfectly fine with keeping him over Rashard.

[Sean Cagney]

Ehh, considering we got Bonner for the vet min and he already knows the system inside and out, I'm perfectly fine with keeping him over Rashard.

Yeah that is very true, but Rashard hit more threes in those finals than Bonner has hit in any series I believe lol. I look at his playoff stats, he sucks honestly. I know he helped out in game 5 vs OKC spreading the floor as usual but honestly in the playoffs he sucks if you look at his % and there is no way around it. He has had a series or two since he has been here but overall he sucks in the playoffs, can't hit the broad side of the damn barn. We got him for the vet minimum though and his role the last two years IS ALOT less THANK GOD! He only plays his little role here or there now, which is a gift honestly. Good signing for the vet minimum.

[Sean88888]

Rashard's $1.4M is the vet min

Same price as Bonner. Probably a shorter contract too.

[Ice009]

Lewis is off the market. What's the point of talking about replacing Bonner with him?

[FireMicoHalili]

Turner, Marion, Nelson, Blatche, Scott, Aminu, and Udoh still on the market. Thinking these players can be valuable and be had for cheap.

[DPG21920]

I completely forgot about Blatche. Despite his mind-lapses, he's an incredibly good offensive big man and I am really surprised he has not been signed.

For some MLE type money he is not a bad option at all. Would be surprised to see HOU nab him.

[TD 21]

It would be interesting to see if they would include Waiters to expand the deal to include Kevin Martin (A less outspoken personality and still a very productive player). Thats a very good deal ,either way, for the Wolves if it goes down.

As Gold Standard mentioned that if Minny moves Love that it would make some sense to shop Pekovic (I think the Suns would be a great trade partner).

Moving Pekovic to Phoenix for Alex Len, Suns 1st rounder in 2015, + Lakers (top 5 protected pick) 2015 pick.


That would give the Wolves plenty of young prospects including Mohammed, Dieng, LaVine, Wiggins, Bennett & Len. Along with 4 first round picks next season.


As for the Love to GSW deal, I understand you point but I still think that Love for Thompson and Lee is a lateral move

Curry-Livingston-Iggy-Love-Bogut

with Barnes-Green-Ezeli as their bench rotation

Thompson is a very good two way player. He also ranked 7th in scoring amongst SGs. Keeping Thompson also allows for Livingston to come off the bench as their backup PG & SG.

Lee posted 18 ppg and 9 rpg. They I think their trajectory is basically the same. If everything goes right, then they can challenge for home court in the first round and depending on the match up they can get to the second round.

I saw the article. What I'm saying is, I don't get that they'll trade Wiggins, Bennett and a 1st for Love, out of that; I get that they're willing to trade any of those things, but not all three together.

Yeah, I'd definitely trade Pekovic next, for the type of package Gold Standard or you came up with. They need to completely start over.

I see no argument for Lee and Thompson for Love and Martin (who'd start; keeping Livingston as the third guard) being a lateral move for the Warriors. You're putting too much stock in Lee and Thompson's raw numbers and underrating Love.

Love's PER was 26.9 last season; that's rarefied air. We're talking about a definitive top ten and arguably top five player. Thompson is not in the top thirty and won't ever be in the top twenty.

[cd021]

I completely forgot about Blatche. Despite his mind-lapses, he's an incredibly good offensive big man and I am really surprised he has not been signed.

For some MLE type money he is not a bad option at all. Would be surprised to see HOU nab him.

I'm thinking Houston goes after him, Jameer Nelson & Marion to fill the voids left by shipping out Asik and Lin.

[MaNu4Tres]

I'm thinking Houston goes after him, Jameer Nelson & Marion to fill the voids left by shipping out Asik and Lin.


Houston is not going to sign Nelson, they just signed Ish Smith as their 3rd pg.

[xmas1997]

I saw the article. What I'm saying is, I don't get that they'll trade Wiggins, Bennett and a 1st for Love, out of that; I get that they're willing to trade any of those things, but not all three together.

Yeah, I'd definitely trade Pekovic next, for the type of package Gold Standard or you came up with. They need to completely start over.

I see no argument for Lee and Thompson for Love and Martin (who'd start; keeping Livingston as the third guard) being a lateral move for the Warriors. You're putting too much stock in Lee and Thompson's raw numbers and underrating Love.

Love's PER was 26.9 last season; that's rarefied air. We're talking about a definitive top ten and arguably top five player. Thompson is not in the top thirty and won't ever be in the top twenty.

The Wolves are trying to get as much as they can get while they are in the drivers seat, and that makes sense, but eventually the longer this takes, they will come to a point that that is not going to be possible.
So it will be a fine line before they pull the trigger on a trade. If Minn moves too quick, they don't get as much as they should get for Love, but if they wait too long, the same will be true, and in both those scenarios their FO gets fired. Minn is walking a tightrope IMHO.

[Humberto]

Boston signing Evan Turner and Antoine Walkerhttp://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/62313_Walker.jpg

[Kindergarten Cop]

Boston signing Evan Turner and Antoine Walkerhttp://sports.cbsimg.net/images/visual/whatshot/62313_Walker.jpg

Antoine Walker? :huh

[LakerHater]

491406019885805569

[Drom John]

Matt Moore: The Leftovers: The 20 best remaining free agents (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24630908/the-leftovers-the-20-best-remaining-free-agents)

[look_at_g_shred]

Aminu or CDR tbh..

[SpursDynasty21]

Are the Spurs done for this off season?

[xmas1997]

Are the Spurs done for this off season?

After watching the way the Spurs operate in free agency for years, my best guess is they are done with all the players they have been rumored or speculated to want.
If they do bring in someone else, none of us will know until it actually happens.
Lets not forget CIA Pop.

[tdunk21]

Sources say that the Bulls, though, have re-entered the race and would appear to be the biggest threats to the Cavs, thanks largely to the Golden State Warriors' resolute unwillingness to add longtime Wolves target Klay Thompson in any deal.

Although the full extent of the Bulls' offer wasn't immediately known, it is believed Minnesota would seek a package from Chicago featuring forward Taj Gibson and defensive ace Jimmy Butler in addition to other assets. The Bulls shelved their Love interest while trying to sign Carmelo Anthony away from the New York Knicks but, according to sources, have re-emerged as contenders.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11247946/chicago-bulls-join-cleveland-cavaliers-kevin-love-trade-push

[look_at_g_shred]

Jimmy Butler's defense is really overrated.

[Ron Swanson]

Gasol ends up a bench player in Chicago? They still paid more than we could, but I thought one of the reasons was a bigger role with the Bulls.

[BatManu20]

How ironic would it be if Pau ended up having to come off the bench in Chicago :lol. I think this is just a ploy by the Twolves to scare the the Cavs and force them to give up Wiggins though tbh.

491638981272952834

[cd98]

Are the Spurs done for this off season?

Given the stuff on the market and the fact that so many teams are under the cap with money to spend (thereby overpaying free agents), I see the Spurs standing pat until the buyouts toward the end of the season, where they have the best chance to pick up bargains. Spurs front office is smart enough to not overspend on contracts they'll regret down the road.

[Aremid]

Why are they reluctant to cut ayers and sign somebody else? It's hard to repeat because everyone comes at you harder so we do need to upgrade and spend money a little.

[manufan10]

Are the Spurs done for this off season?

The only move I anticipate the Spurs doing is the re-signing of Baynes. I think they're main plan was to bring back the whole team. They did do their due diligence and tested the market to gauge other players' interest. I think they're confident in staying pat, for now.

[TD 21]

The Wolves are trying to get as much as they can get while they are in the drivers seat, and that makes sense, but eventually the longer this takes, they will come to a point that that is not going to be possible.
So it will be a fine line before they pull the trigger on a trade. If Minn moves too quick, they don't get as much as they should get for Love, but if they wait too long, the same will be true, and in both those scenarios their FO gets fired. Minn is walking a tightrope IMHO.

Yeah.

cdo21, the details trickling out today support my point about them not willing to part with all three of those assets for just Love. Now, it sounds as if they'd also get Dieng back, who'd be a significant piece for them both now and especially in the future. Also, not today, but it has been suggested in the past week that Robinson may also be included.

[ace3g]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)ESPN sources say Mavs will be hosting free-agent point guard Jameer Nelson in Dallas for a face-to-face visit Thursday

[Kindergarten Cop]

491755298399334400

491755552267960320

491755977503285248

[DPG21920]

Jameer for the room exception is a steal. Despite never being truly great, he has been very good and is still an average player. Average players typically get more than that and any dip might be easily explained by a vet playing on a team with no playoff hope. Despite that, he also appeared to be a good teammate/solider and never really complained despite being on a bad team.

[Ron Swanson]

Nelson would be a nice pickup for the room exception.

[spurraider21]

i don't get how much there is to "completing the deal." if all they have is the RE, then there's no real negotiating tbh

[cd021]

Nelson was posted 12ppg, 7 APG last season. Would be a good backup and turns certainty improves their PG rotation. They could also play alot of two PG sets as well with only Ellis and Ledo at SG.

[cd021]

i don't get how much there is to "completing the deal." if all they have is the RE, then there's no real negotiating tbh

I still think the Rockets could be an option. They have 3 PGs but besides Beverly Canaan and Smith only have 200 games between them.

Nelson played 8 years with Howard and would be much better backup. They could offer him more than the Mavs.

[ElNono]

Nelson would be great for the Mavs. Felton just won't cut it on a team with championship aspirations.

[cd021]

Yeah.

cdo21, the details trickling out today support my point about them not willing to part with all three of those assets for just Love. Now, it sounds as if they'd also get Dieng back, who'd be a significant piece for them both now and especially in the future. Also, not today, but it has been suggested in the past week that Robinson may also be included.

As it stands right now,

it looks as though the Cavs will move 2 of their 3 2015 1st round picks along with Bennett. Maybe they could move all 3 and Waiters in place of Wiggins but Minny would likely wait out the 30 days to get Wiggins.

Based on what i've heard:

John Lucas, Malcolm Thomas, Andrew Wiggins & Anthony Bennett + 2 first round picks in 2015

for

Kevin Love & J.J Barea


The Wolves can then waive Thomas and Lucas afterwards. They would save $9 million this season (roughly).

The Wolves are trying to unload Barea and or Martin in a deal along with Love but The Cavs don't have enough expendable salary to take on Martin as well, without adding Waiters to the deal along with Haywood (in place of Thomas)


John Lucas, Brendan Haywood, Andrew Wiggins, Anthony Bennett, Dion Waiters + 2 first round picks in 2015

for

Kevin Love & J.J Barea & Kevin Martin


Thats a great deal for all involved (specifically the second) the Cavs would be looking at a rotation on Irving-Martin-James-Love-Varejao with Barea and Miller, at the moment, to fill out the bench.

The Wolves would be flush with young prospects (Wiggins, Bennett, Waiters, 3 1st rounders -including their own if they miss the postseason, LaVine, Dieng, Mohammed.

Gold Standard mentioned moving Pekovic, I added the Phoenix part because of their need for a big man and they have plenty of trade assets.

Moving Len, Lakers 2015 pick (top 5 protected), & their own pick would give the Wolves the added bonus of bottoming out and keeping the pick they shipped to Phoenix (previously)


As for Love. I am not convinced he is as good as his production. A P.E.R of 26 is downright impressive (he has a P.E.R. of better than 24.3 in 3 of his last 4 full seasons but its almost unheard of for a player to be that productive and miss the postseason. Its not like he has had a poor supporting cast (Rubio, Martin & Pekovic) and he does play in the west but still more often than not great players carry mediocre teams to the playoffs (Garnett & A.I come to mind)

Thats not to say he isn't a fantastic player but I don't think he is capable of dropping 26 & 15 on a championship caliber team. If he can post 22 and 12 that's still a great player.

I'm not so much caught up in Lee and Thompsons raw numbers as i am in the mismatch problems Thompson causes. Very few PGs can truly cover Curry, so many teams throw SGs or SFs on Curry. As a result, Thompson can punish PGs (i.e. Tony Parker) in the post. He's 6'7 and an elite shooter at 2 guard.

Love isn't as much of a mismatch against certain teams, Ibaka is mobile enough to cover Love and the Spurs have Diaw and Splitter (though not sure that would be a good match-up for Tiago).

The argument for not acquiring Love for Cleveland is that they would be a much better defensive team with Wiggins-Lebron-Varejao up front with Lebron and Irving carrying the offensive load and Waiters and to an lesser extend Wiggins chipping in points. They could always ship Bennett or Waiters out in separate deals to bring back veteran rotation players to better balance out the roster. They may not be as good as quickly but as Wiggins improves the team will as well and the franchise could be much better off in the long run with Wiggins over Love considering his ceiling and he is only 19.

[cd021]

Houston is not going to sign Nelson, they just signed Ish Smith as their 3rd pg.

Both Canaan and Smith are have about 200 games under their belt. I would think Houston at least gauges his interest, given his familiarity with D12 and his decade on experience.

[T Park]

Devin Harris starting and Jameer Nelson off the bench would give the Mavericks a pretty damn good team.

All depends on Chandler's health. He stays healthy, they're legit.

[Aremid]

Devin Harris starting and Jameer Nelson off the bench would give the Mavericks a pretty damn good team.

All depends on Chandler's health. He stays healthy, they're legit.

and what will the spurs do to counter?

[Emperor]

http://www.sportando.com/m/en/usa/nba/128635/mavericks-to-void-rashard-lewis-deal.html

[MaNu4Tres]

Both Canaan and Smith are have about 200 games under their belt. I would think Houston at least gauges his interest, given his familiarity with D12 and his decade on experience.

Likley that ship has sailed with the Ish Smith signing. They love Beverly and love Canaan just as much.

[Mr Bones]

Minnesota's game of waiting is starting to pay off, because now the Bulls are rumored to be adding McDermott to the offer. After his impressive Summer League play, he looks like much more of a prospect than the Cavs' Bennett....

[TheGoldStandard]

Chicago willing to give up McDermott, Butler and Taj Gibson is retarded just to get Kevin Love and either Barrea or Martin..

[BatManu20]

Chicago should hang on to McDermott imo.

[cd021]

Chicago willing to give up McDermott, Butler and Taj Gibson is retarded just to get Kevin Love and either Barrea or Martin..

Isn't Mirotic supposed to be apart of that deal?

[cd021]

and what will the spurs do to counter?

:lobt::pop: Step on the court

[slick'81]

Damn Dallas putting in work

[moisaenz]

and what will the spurs do to counter?

slowmo

[ace3g]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)New Orleans, as expected, has released newly acquired forward Omri Casspi, who will find new team in free agency if he clears waivers




Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine

Omri Casspi has already publicly expressed interest in returning to Kings and word is Sacramento is planning to put in a waiver claim on him


Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine

(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Claiming Casspi off waivers would enable Kings to secure his rights without messing with free agency ... IF they are only team to claim him

[xmas1997]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)New Orleans, as expected, has released newly acquired forward Omri Casspi, who will find new team in free agency if he clears waivers




Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine

Omri Casspi has already publicly expressed interest in returning to Kings and word is Sacramento is planning to put in a waiver claim on him


Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine

(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Claiming Casspi off waivers would enable Kings to secure his rights without messing with free agency ... IF they are only team to claim him









The Spurs were once interested in him.
I guess we'll see if they still are.
We should know in a couple of days.

[spurraider21]

kings shouldn't move backwards...

[xmas1997]

kings shouldn't move backwards...

I think they have last shot for him and after the Spurs.

[timtonymanu]

No thanks to Casspi.

[xmas1997]

Casspi is a 26 year old 6'9" SF/PF who has been a capable defender and has a 3 pt. shot.
What's not to like about that?

[Kindergarten Cop]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine

(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Claiming Casspi off waivers would enable Kings to secure his rights without messing with free agency ... IF they are only team to claim him






I don't understand the "If they are the only team to claim him" portion of Stein's tweet. Shouldn't it read, "if the 6 other teams with a worse record than Sacramento do not claim him"?

[ace3g]

Chris Haynes @ChrisBHaynes
(https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes)Free agent forward Al Farouq-Aminu has reached an agreement with Dallas, league sources inform @CSNNW (https://twitter.com/CSNNW/).

[Kindergarten Cop]

Chris Haynes @ChrisBHaynes
(https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes)Free agent forward Al Farouq-Aminu has reached an agreement with Dallas, league sources inform @CSNNW (https://twitter.com/CSNNW/).


Dallas is really building a formidable team. I'd have to honestly admit that, to me, they are the second scariest team (only behind OKC) that the Spurs will face this upcoming season - even ahead of the Clippers and Rockets.

[DesignatedT]

Aminu sucks.

[Ice009]

WTF.

You are shitting me. That I am NOT happy about.

Dallas got both Parsons and Aminu, and the Spurs still don't have a backup SF.

RC Buford acknowledged that there was a hole there last off-season, how has he still not found at least one freaking player that can be a backup?

[TheGoldStandard]

WTF.

You are shitting me. That I am NOT happy about.

Dallas got both Parsons and Aminu, and the Spurs still don't have a backup SF.

RC Buford acknowledged that there was a hole there last off-season, how has he still not found at least one freaking player that can be a backup?

Spurs stood pat when they lost in 2013 despite this deficiency and now you expect them to pick up someone after they won a title?

[spurraider21]

WTF.

You are shitting me. That I am NOT happy about.

Dallas got both Parsons and Aminu, and the Spurs still don't have a backup SF.

RC Buford acknowledged that there was a hole there last off-season, how has he still not found at least one freaking player that can be a backup?
i guess they're confident in Kyle Anderson and Austin Daye

[Kindergarten Cop]

492122715671625729

[Ice009]

Spurs stood pat when they lost in 2013 despite this deficiency and now you expect them to pick up someone after they won a title?

I was very interested in Aminu. I am surprised if the Spurs had no interest in him and I thought the main reason would be that he would want at least half the MLE, which I wouldn't have wanted to give him. I thought that for the BAE he might be a good signing, but didn't think he'd take that. It looks like he took even less money from Dallas.

What the F are the Spurs doing with Jeff Ayres and Austin Daye?

RC said last off-season he knows that they have a bit of a hole at backup SF. It's been over a year and he still hasn't filled it. What in the fuck is he doing? Surely he doesn't think they can just keep doing what they did last season and have smaller/undersized players fill in all the time, does he? There's match-ups where a true SF backup might/will be needed.

[TheGoldStandard]

I was very interested in Aminu. I am surprised if the Spurs had no interest in him and I thought the main reason would be that he would want at least half the MLE, which I wouldn't have wanted to give him. I thought that for the BAE he might be a good signing, but didn't think he'd take that. It looks like he took even less money from Dallas.

What the F are the Spurs doing with Jeff Ayres and Austin Daye?

RC said last off-season he knows that they have a bit of a hole at backup SF. It's been over a year and he still hasn't filled it. What in the fuck is he doing? Surely he doesn't think they can just keep doing what they did last season and have smaller/undersized players fill in all the time, does he? There's match-ups where a true SF backup might/will be needed.

back to back finals trips gives RC reason to keep it the same way and roll the dice.

[cd98]

Remember the deadline last year when we were all pissed the Spurs didn't make a move?

[TD 21]

cd021, I can't see the Cavs making that first trade unless Dieng is included and the second one, I can't see them making even if Dieng is included.

I don't think Love is quite as good as his production suggests either and I agree that a truly great should should be able to drag just about any team into the playoffs, at least once, even in the West. But at the same time, he has not had a good supporting cast. None of Pekovic, Martin or Rubio are stars and beyond them, they haven't had anything resembling an adequate bench.

I'm not saying Thompson isn't valuable, but again, for Love it's a no brainer to give him up.

If the Timberwolves really are willing to take this until the trade deadline (which looks increasingly unlikely), as I said, if I were the Cavs, I'd wait. But ultimately, if Wiggins has to be included, so be it. James' prime is dwindling, their current roster doesn't time well with it and their front line isn't nearly good enough.

[Emperor]

Remember the deadline last year when we were all pissed the Spurs didn't make a move?

Yup, i was on that espn trade machine quite abit. Great that things turned out well despite lol.

[spurraider21]

if we had just dumped Daye when we could have, the Marion signing would have made all the sense in the world... then again i'd be pleasantly surprised if the FO actually waived Ayres and Daye. its not like them to bite the bullet though

[TheGoldStandard]

Ayres is a Spur for life.. He'll end up getting signed again next year for 5 mil or something silly like that

[Birn]

Wasn't today the last day the Spurs could rescind their QO for Baynes? Looks like they will keep the QO on the table.

[Ditty]

I wouldn't be shocked if Spurs agree with Shawn Marion soon...

[FireMicoHalili]

Marion, Scott, Blatche, Okafor, Ayon, Udoh, Cunningham, and Baynes are without contracts yet Ayres has a job. Such is life

[Richie]

I was very interested in Aminu. I am surprised if the Spurs had no interest in him and I thought the main reason would be that he would want at least half the MLE, which I wouldn't have wanted to give him. I thought that for the BAE he might be a good signing, but didn't think he'd take that. It looks like he took even less money from Dallas.

What the F are the Spurs doing with Jeff Ayres and Austin Daye?

RC said last off-season he knows that they have a bit of a hole at backup SF. It's been over a year and he still hasn't filled it. What in the fuck is he doing? Surely he doesn't think they can just keep doing what they did last season and have smaller/undersized players fill in all the time, does he? There's match-ups where a true SF backup might/will be needed.

Aminu can't shoot, ergo he can't play the 3 for the Spurs. Same goes for Mbah a Moute. We haven't pursued these guys because they would be u playable in the Spurs system.

[palangi]

I was very interested in Aminu. I am surprised if the Spurs had no interest in him and I thought the main reason would be that he would want at least half the MLE, which I wouldn't have wanted to give him. I thought that for the BAE he might be a good signing, but didn't think he'd take that. It looks like he took even less money from Dallas.

What the F are the Spurs doing with Jeff Ayres and Austin Daye?

RC said last off-season he knows that they have a bit of a hole at backup SF. It's been over a year and he still hasn't filled it. What in the fuck is he doing? Surely he doesn't think they can just keep doing what they did last season and have smaller/undersized players fill in all the time, does he? There's match-ups where a true SF backup might/will be needed.
Daye and Anderson will be looked at as the backup SF. And that isn't bad at all. You just can't have hall of famers at very backup spot.
I think the improvement we saw out of patty this past year could ring true with Daye. The comfort level in our system does seem to be a big factor.
Amount is NOT an upgrade over either of these two. And neither is Marion at this point in his career. And it isn't like we will be asking for big minutes out of those two. But I believe both could play off ginobli rather well in the second unit.

So in short I don't think there is a hole there anymore.

parker, mills, joseph
green, Manu, belli
leonard, Daye, Anderson
diaw, bonner, ayers
duncan, splitter, baynes

[FireMicoHalili]

Aminu can't shoot, ergo he can't play the 3 for the Spurs. Same goes for Mbah a Moute. We haven't pursued these guys because they would be u playable in the Spurs system.
These Aminu fans are banking on Engelland improving his jump shot, which is a fair point. You say the Spurs pursue three-point shooters and that non-shooters are unplayable in the Spurs' system, but Leonard was a poor shooter in college (31%). Maybe these Aminu hopefuls are wishing for the same kind of transformation, which is valid too since the kid is just 24. Can say the Spurs chased Leonard because of his defense but Aminu has that too.

[Ice009]

Aminu can't shoot, ergo he can't play the 3 for the Spurs. Same goes for Mbah a Moute. We haven't pursued these guys because they would be u playable in the Spurs system.

Was Leonard a great shooter when he first came here? Aminu is still young. I also figured Chip might be able to do something with him to help him improve his shot. If the Spurs weren't interested in him at all (even for a contract as cheap as he got), then I assume they don't think much of his bbiq, or Chip must think they can't do anything with his shot?


Daye and Anderson will be looked at as the backup SF. And that isn't bad at all. You just can't have hall of famers at very backup spot.
I think the improvement we saw out of patty this past year could ring true with Daye. The comfort level in our system does seem to be a big factor.
Amount is NOT an upgrade over either of these two. And neither is Marion at this point in his career. And it isn't like we will be asking for big minutes out of those two. But I believe both could play off ginobli rather well in the second unit.

So in short I don't think there is a hole there anymore.

parker, mills, joseph
green, Manu, belli
leonard, Daye, Anderson
diaw, bonner, ayers
duncan, splitter, baynes

Where exactly did I mention hall of fame players? I said the name Aminu, does that sound like me demanding hall of fame players at every position?

And the main reason I want a backup SF (a true backup small forward), is for defense. What the F is Daye and Anderson going to do against someone like Kevin Durant or Lebron James (apart from get wrecked defensively) if they had to check someone of that caliber?


These Aminu fans are banking on Engelland improving his jump shot, which is a fair point. You say the Spurs pursue three-point shooters and that non-shooters are unplayable in the Spurs' system, but Leonard was a poor shooter in college (31%). Maybe these Aminu hopefuls are wishing for the same kind of transformation, which is valid too since the kid is just 24. Can say the Spurs chased Leonard because of his defense but Aminu has that too.

Main reason I was interested in Aminu was as a backup SF/PF that can rebound and play defense. Spurs don't have very good defenders behind Kawhi at SF IMO. I'd like someone that is decent defensively that can backup Kawhi (in case of foul trouble). Could Diaw be getting in better shape and lose more weight this off-season to be able to play some minutes at backup SF?

I don't have much confidence in Daye or Anderson providing any kind of adequate defense if they had to defend any of the top SFs in the NBA.

[Richie]

These Aminu fans are banking on Engelland improving his jump shot, which is a fair point. You say the Spurs pursue three-point shooters and that non-shooters are unplayable in the Spurs' system, but Leonard was a poor shooter in college (31%). Maybe these Aminu hopefuls are wishing for the same kind of transformation, which is valid too since the kid is just 24. Can say the Spurs chased Leonard because of his defense but Aminu has that too.


Was Leonard a great shooter when he first came here? Aminu is still young. I also figured Chip might be able to do something with him to help him improve his shot. If the Spurs weren't interested in him at all (even for a contract as cheap as he got), then I assume they don't think much of his bbiq, or Chip must think they can't do anything with his shot?

I think its exactly that. Chip isn't a magician, he can't turn any player in to a good, or even average 3 point shooter. The Spurs targeted Kawhi because his shot was easily fixable, Leonard himself has said that pretty much the only thing they changed was his release point.

Chip also might be the best, but he is not the only good shooting coach in the league. These players have been in the league for a long time on multiple teams and have shown no improvement in shooting. That's a big red flag that the shot isn't fixable.

Give it a couple years and this forum will want us to throw money at MKG because Chip will be able to turn him in to a great shooter. Not going to happen with Aminu or many others, not everyone can be a shooter.

[Chinook]

Supposedly, MKG actually does have a better shot nowadays.

[BatManu20]

Supposedly, MKG actually does have a better shot nowadays.

Let's hope so

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Br1QORKCMAAfwVb.jpg

[Ice009]

I think its exactly that. Chip isn't a magician, he can't turn any player in to a good, or even average 3 point shooter. The Spurs targeted Kawhi because his shot was easily fixable, Leonard himself has said that pretty much the only thing they changed was his release point.

Chip also might be the best, but he is not the only good shooting coach in the league. These players have been in the league for a long time on multiple teams and have shown no improvement in shooting. That's a big red flag that the shot isn't fixable.

Give it a couple years and this forum will want us to throw money at MKG because Chip will be able to turn him in to a great shooter. Not going to happen with Aminu or many others, not everyone can be a shooter.

I didn't say Chip is a magician that can turn him into a great shooter. All I said was that Chip might be able to help him improve his shot. That's all. I know it's not easy to just turn anyone into a good shooter (even with a great shooting coach). I'm a shooter myself, and I had a feel for shooting from the get go. It'd be very hard to turn someone into a shooter that couldn't shoot for shit their whole careers, but there is some instances where it has happened and there's more of a chance to do it when you're younger. The older the player gets, the harder it is to change the way they shoot the ball imo. People can definitely improve their shooting, but more often than not, it's tough to turn a guy that's been a shit shooter for his whole career into a good one. No need to tell me that.

I also don't mind players having unorthodox shooting methods if you can make a high percentage of your shots. Reggie Miller is an example of that. In the recent threads on Shawn Marion, I've been getting on him about his shooting style, but that is mainly because I think it's too unorthodox and you can't get it off with great accuracy in some situations. Miller seemed to be able to get his shot off in any situation.

What about my other point? I was mainly looking at Aminu for defensive purposes. You don't seem to have an opinion on that. I wasn't looking at him because I thought Chip could turn him into a great shooter.

[Richie]

Supposedly, MKG actually does have a better shot nowadays.

He supposedly has an incredible work ethic but there was a video released of him recently and it still looked horrible.

That's not to say he'll always be terrible, Marion's shot is hideous and he had some seasons at the league average from downtown, but I'll be surprised if he ever becomes a good shooter.

[MI21]

When did Aminu get the reputation of being anything other than an average defender?

[Richie]

I didn't say Chip is a magician that can turn him into a great shooter. All I said was that Chip might be able to help him improve his shot. That's all. I know it's not easy to just turn anyone into a good shooter (even with a great shooting coach). I'm a shooter myself, and I had a feel for shooting from the get go. It'd be very hard to turn someone into a shooter that couldn't shoot for shit their whole careers, but there is some instances where it has happened and there's more of a chance to do it when you're younger. The older the player gets, the harder it is to change the way they shoot the ball imo. People can definitely improve their shooting, but more often than not, it's tough to turn a guy that's been a shit shooter for his whole career into a good one. No need to tell me that.

I also don't mind players having unorthodox shooting methods if you can make a high percentage of your shots. Reggie Miller is an example of that. In the recent threads on Shawn Marion, I've been getting on him about his shooting style, but that is mainly because I think it's too unorthodox and you can't get it off with great accuracy in some situations. Miller seemed to be able to get his shot off in any situation.

What about my other point? I was mainly looking at Aminu for defensive purposes. You don't seem to have an opinion on that. I wasn't looking at him because I thought Chip could turn him into a great shooter.

If you can't shoot in today's league, everything elseyou bring is nearly worthless. We showed that by sweeping Memphis, Tony Allen is as good as you get defensively but if you can't keep defenders honest you'll be a net negative for your team.

They can be very useful in the regular season I'll concede that, but when you play the same team over and over in a playoff series, those kinds of weaknesses get exploited and cost you. For a team with Championship aspirations, those weaknesses are too much.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

i guess they're confident in Kyle Anderson and Austin Daye

Actually, more like they're confident in the swing rotation that ran out last year - Kawhi, Green, Manu, and Beli.

Anderson and Daye will only play significant minutes to cover injuries... for that reason I was hoping we would have Aminu (Chip can teach anyone to shoot better... how much better is the question) or Marion or another vet to cover, especially since Manu is 36 and might play the summer with a fractured leg. I guess the FO has sufficient faith in Daye tp make him the 5th wing, because Anderson looks very young (I love his potential, but to expect much from him this coming season would be unfair).


Marion, Scott, Blatche, Okafor, Ayon, Udoh, Cunningham, and Baynes are without contracts yet Ayres has a job. Such is life

Yuuuup. :lol


These Aminu fans are banking on Engelland improving his jump shot, which is a fair point. You say the Spurs pursue three-point shooters and that non-shooters are unplayable in the Spurs' system, but Leonard was a poor shooter in college (31%). Maybe these Aminu hopefuls are wishing for the same kind of transformation, which is valid too since the kid is just 24. Can say the Spurs chased Leonard because of his defense but Aminu has that too.

Chip has vastly improved the shooting of so many players over his career that I certainly thought Aminu would be worth a shot at reclamation, as obviously do many other people around here.

[100%duncan]

Let's hope so

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Br1QORKCMAAfwVb.jpg

:lol

[anakha]

Let's hope so

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Br1QORKCMAAfwVb.jpg

Jesus Christ, my shoulders hurt just looking at that.

[Chinook]

Let's hope so

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Br1QORKCMAAfwVb.jpg

The first time I saw that, I almost fell out of my chair.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Actually, more like they're confident in the swing rotation that ran out last year - Kawhi, Green, Manu, and Beli.

Anderson and Daye will only play significant minutes to cover injuries... for that reason I was hoping we would have Aminu (Chip can teach anyone to shoot better... how much better is the question) or Marion or another vet to cover, especially since Manu is 36 and might play the summer with a fractured leg. I guess the FO has sufficient faith in Daye tp make him the 5th wing, because Anderson looks very young (I love his potential, but to expect much from him this coming season would be unfair).



Yuuuup. :lol



Chip has vastly improved the shooting of so many players over his career that I certainly thought Aminu would be worth a shot at reclamation, as obviously do many other people around here.

Significant minutes are not to be had. Even without injury. Kawhi will play 30+, leaving 18 or less per game to be divided up among Green, Belli, Manu, Daye, Anderson, and maybe even Boris in wierd/extreme situations. There are a lot of options at SF. A lot of people say RC didn't address the issue, but the last two players acquired were forwards. So, he addressed it. He just didn't address it to some of fans' liking. In the case of injury to Kawhi, there is no standout defensive stalwart in that group, maybe, but if any team loses any key piece, that is usually the case. Rarely is an equal replacement available. Kawhi and max contract are being discussed for a reason. Marion nor Aminu step in to fill his role if he goes down with injury, and if he's healthy, there are precious few minutes to be divided up amongst the others mentioned, much less another forward. It just isn't a GLARING need.

We also have LJC and Bertans waiting in the wings that can play at the small forward position, so unless Marion or Aminu want to sign one year deals, RC may not be interested based upon desiring to bring over foreign prospects next year.

If Baynes doesn't come back, or if Ayres is cut (I don't think he will be), I would much rather see a shooter, slasher, creator at the 1 (only temporarily for Patty), 1/2, or a Hanga type 3/2, maybe. At least for half the season Patty and possibly Manu, will be unavailable. Tony is often injured, as well. We are much thinner on offense at the 1/2 right now.

[Kineto]

I just read an interview of Mickaël Gelabale on a french website http://www.basketusa.com/news/234142/mickael-gelabale-si-jai-loccasion-de-retourner-en-nba-jy-retournerai/

He is free agent, and would like to come back in NBA. He can be a really good solution for the back-up 3 spot
He's a solid defender, a very good 3pt shooter, a team player with good basketball IQ.
And the French NT use some of the spurs system, so he will not need one year to adapt.

My only concern is that he is a little injury prone, but Spurs are a really deep team (and they can still wait after the WC to sign him)

[xmas1997]

Has anyone besides me noticed there have not been any "rumors" of the Spurs interested in any FAs except Gasol?
That should tell you something. if you have followed the Spurs for any length of time.

[Obstructed_View]

Has anyone besides me noticed there have not been any "rumors" of the Spurs interested in any FAs except Gasol?
That should tell you something. if you have followed the Spurs for any length of time.

Sorry, not following. What "should" a lack of rumors tell us? The only solid conclusion I gather from it is that the Spurs don't participate in the rumor mill.

[xmas1997]

Sorry, not following. What "should" a lack of rumors tell us? The only solid conclusion I gather from it is that the Spurs don't participate in the rumor mill.

Exactly, and usually by the time a rumor concerning the Spurs gets to us, they have long since moved on.
We usually don't hear about a FA with the Spurs until they actually get him. There are the exceptions like with Finley and Gasol, but it definitely isn't the rule.

[kobyz]

Eric Green, Danny's cousin sign with Nuggets...

[pookenstein]

People need to understand that Jeff is here for the log haul. He will replace Bonner as the guy every fan can bitch about 24/7.

[Random5843]

I thought that was Bellineli's spot

[Vic Petro]

492778556141752320

[Robz4000]

Do not want

[xmas1997]

492778556141752320

Will the Spurs make him an offer?
I think they will, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[littlecoyotecoin]

People need to understand that Jeff is here for the log haul. He will replace Bonner as the guy every fan can bitch about 24/7.

Well, he's much better suited for log hauling than basketball, so it looks like we're on the right track with him now. Who gets his spot on the team?

[ace3g]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)ESPN sources say Omri Casspi is finalizing a one-year contract at league min. with Sacramento tonight after clearing waivers earlier Friday

[xmas1997]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)ESPN sources say Omri Casspi is finalizing a one-year contract at league min. with Sacramento tonight after clearing waivers earlier Friday



That answered that question.

[tholdren]

That answered that question.
great move sacramento! playoff bound

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Significant minutes are not to be had. Even without injury. Kawhi will play 30+, leaving 18 or less per game to be divided up among Green, Belli, Manu, Daye, Anderson, and maybe even Boris in wierd/extreme situations. There are a lot of options at SF. A lot of people say RC didn't address the issue, but the last two players acquired were forwards. So, he addressed it. He just didn't address it to some of fans' liking. In the case of injury to Kawhi, there is no standout defensive stalwart in that group, maybe, but if any team loses any key piece, that is usually the case. Rarely is an equal replacement available. Kawhi and max contract are being discussed for a reason. Marion nor Aminu step in to fill his role if he goes down with injury, and if he's healthy, there are precious few minutes to be divided up amongst the others mentioned, much less another forward. It just isn't a GLARING need.

We also have LJC and Bertans waiting in the wings that can play at the small forward position, so unless Marion or Aminu want to sign one year deals, RC may not be interested based upon desiring to bring over foreign prospects next year.

If Baynes doesn't come back, or if Ayres is cut (I don't think he will be), I would much rather see a shooter, slasher, creator at the 1 (only temporarily for Patty), 1/2, or a Hanga type 3/2, maybe. At least for half the season Patty and possibly Manu, will be unavailable. Tony is often injured, as well. We are much thinner on offense at the 1/2 right now.

Green 24 Manu 24
Kawhi 30 Beli 18

is how it plays out at the swing positions (which are basically interchangeable in today's NBA) without injuries. The problem is there will be injuries, and that means at some point we'll be playing Daye (or SloMo) about 18mins per game. Against poor teams that would be fine, but against strong teams it will hurt. As long as the injuries occur mid-season it'll be fine I guess. I just don't have nearly the faith in Daye that you do... however, I do firmly believe the FO knows what they're doing so I'm sure it will all work out just fine.

Aminu for 1.1mil would've been a great signing though - he could have taken a year to develop his shooting and learn the system, and be there to play when the injuries occur if necessary. The FO must know something about him we don't, because he looks like a missed opportunity to me.

[FireMicoHalili]

Casspi/Garcia > Daye

[littlecoyotecoin]

Green 24 Manu 24
Kawhi 30 Beli 18

is how it plays out at the swing positions (which are basically interchangeable in today's NBA) without injuries. The problem is there will be injuries, and that means at some point we'll be playing Daye (or SloMo) about 18mins per game. Against poor teams that would be fine, but against strong teams it will hurt. As long as the injuries occur mid-season it'll be fine I guess. I just don't have nearly the faith in Daye that you do... however, I do firmly believe the FO knows what they're doing so I'm sure it will all work out just fine.

Aminu for 1.1mil would've been a great signing though - he could have taken a year to develop his shooting and learn the system, and be there to play when the injuries occur if necessary. The FO must know something about him we don't, because he looks like a missed opportunity to me.

It is not so much that I am confident that he will knock the socks off, but more that I am getting more and more confident that he's going to get a chance to attempt to do so this year. He played about 115 minutes last year, and was here for about 1/4 of the season. That alone translates to roughly another 345 (more) minutes that he'll play if they play him as minimally as they did when he first arrived. Given what I have been seeing, I believe they intend to use him more than that, possibly significantly more. Seeing as he will be a returning player with summer league, training camp, and preseason games under his belt, it is not far-fetched to think he plays a little more. Even if his minutes are bumped only 50%, from 8 to about 12 minutes a game, 575 more than last year; they've got to come from somewhere. It looks mostly like they'll be from the 4 spot, relieving Duncan some, and displacing Bonner. But, if needed I imagine he could try to fill in at the 3. But, I think they will also give Anderson minutes there. I think he is a rookie that might get to play.

If they cut Daye, of course, I was wrong.

[palangi]

Was Leonard a great shooter when he first came here? Aminu is still young. I also figured Chip might be able to do something with him to help him improve his shot. If the Spurs weren't interested in him at all (even for a contract as cheap as he got), then I assume they don't think much of his bbiq, or Chip must think they can't do anything with his shot?



Where exactly did I mention hall of fame players? I said the name Aminu, does that sound like me demanding hall of fame players at every position?

And the main reason I want a backup SF (a true backup small forward), is for defense. What the F is Daye and Anderson going to do against someone like Kevin Durant or Lebron James (apart from get wrecked defensively) if they had to check someone of that caliber?



Main reason I was interested in Aminu was as a backup SF/PF that can rebound and play defense. Spurs don't have very good defenders behind Kawhi at SF IMO. I'd like someone that is decent defensively that can backup Kawhi (in case of foul trouble). Could Diaw be getting in better shape and lose more weight this off-season to be able to play some minutes at backup SF?

I don't have much confidence in Daye or Anderson providing any kind of adequate defense if they had to defend any of the top SFs in the NBA.
funny... You think there are backups out there that can guard Lebron or durant. You sir are in a fantasy land. You are hall of fame seeking for backups.

[apalisoc_9]

What's cunnigham's status with the wolves? haven't really seen him play in a while tbh, but I know he should be off the books by now.

[Ditty]

What's cunnigham's status with the wolves? haven't really seen him play in a while tbh, but I know he should be off the books by now.


We would have a former end of bench Portland Trailblazer reunion with Pendergraph,Mills and Cunningham :lol

[FireMicoHalili]

not free agency-related but:

Rumor has it that the NBA’s season-opening game on TNT will be San Antonio at Cleveland, the first home game for LeBron James in his return to Cleveland and the first game for the defending NBA champion Spurs. The NBA schedule is expected to be released next month. - Boston Globe

[NickiRasgo]

not free agency-related but:

Rumor has it that the NBA’s season-opening game on TNT will be San Antonio at Cleveland, the first home game for LeBron James in his return to Cleveland and the first game for the defending NBA champion Spurs. The NBA schedule is expected to be released next month. - Boston Globe

LMAO

This is a very disrespecting to Spurs. Have at least the Spurs have their first game in home to relieve the championship but instead they prefer LeBron's homecoming to Cleveland against the defending champion. Well, it's NBA. Hopes the Spurs wins the game with 30 points.

[Big P]

lol...the NBA is not going to make lj watch the Spurs ring ceremony....I wonder who that lucky team will be?

[ace3g]

I could see the Spurs play Cleveland opening night, but not in Cleveland, defending champs always get opening night at home for the ring ceremony.

[NickiRasgo]

I could see the Spurs play Cleveland opening night, but not in Cleveland, defending champs always get opening night at home for the ring ceremony.

Oh. I missed that. Thought it said that it's also Spurs opening game so it might be possible that Spurs first game is in AT&T then will travel to Cleveland but still, want the Spurs. not only to win, but leads around 30. :lol

[heyheymymy]

lol i want that cavs game at home and i want lebron to watch the spurs get the rings/banner that busted his south beach dynasty attempt

[littlecoyotecoin]

Casspi/Garcia > Daye

You're suffering from grassisgreeneritis:

During his lone season with the Rockets, Casspi averaged 6.9 points, 3.7 rebounds, and 1.2 assists while playing 18.1 minutes per game off the bench. Despite displaying the qualities of a decent role player, his ability to shoot from outside proved inconsistent – he shot 34.7 percent through 71 games for Houston.

Daye's career three is better than this, and with us last year in limited time he shot 41%. Give him 18 minutes per game and his points, rebounds (well rebounds not bad, actually) and assists are at least that good, too. It's a new Daye.

[FireMicoHalili]

You're suffering from grassisgreeneritis:

During his lone season with the Rockets, Casspi averaged 6.9 points, 3.7 rebounds, and 1.2 assists while playing 18.1 minutes per game off the bench. Despite displaying the qualities of a decent role player, his ability to shoot from outside proved inconsistent – he shot 34.7 percent through 71 games for Houston.

Daye's career three is better than this, and with us last year in limited time he shot 41%. Give him 18 minutes per game and his points, rebounds (well rebounds not bad, actually) and assists are at least that good, too. It's a new Daye.
Kind of moot to argue now that he's signed with another team now though. Just for the sake of it, Casspi shot decently from the right corner. Daye on the other hand...well it's a small sample size, making blanks from the right corner and nothing from the left. I've followed all your arguments regarding Daye and all of them have hinged on an expectation he does better, something difficult to prove until the season unfolds. You technically could look at his Per 36 numbers, though again his open looks might have been a result of the system. Garcia on the other hand, I couldn't care less about his shooting, but his defense has grown to be notable. Not a bad insurance policy if Kawhi sits.

Again, moot. Not setting high standards for the 11th, 12th, or 13th men on the team. Logical to expect something more from Daye on a contract year and year two.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Kind of moot to argue now that he's signed with another team now though. Just for the sake of it, Casspi shot decently from the right corner. Daye on the other hand...well it's a small sample size, making blanks from the right corner and nothing from the left. I've followed all your arguments regarding Daye and all of them have hinged on an expectation he does better, something difficult to prove until the season unfolds. You technically could look at his Per 36 numbers, though again his open looks might have been a result of the system. Garcia on the other hand, I couldn't care less about his shooting, but his defense has grown to be notable. Not a bad insurance policy if Kawhi sits.

Again, moot. Not setting high standards for the 11th, 12th, or 13th men on the team. Logical to expect something more from Daye on a contract year and year two.

Yes, moot. Yet another FA that we didn't want, or didn't want us. But, agreed, Daye will have to continue what he started last season, and build upon it.

[FireMicoHalili]

Yes, moot. Yet another FA that we didn't want, or didn't want us. But, agreed, Daye will have to continue what he started last season, and build upon it.
Yeah sorry mate, I noticed a trend in your arguments, nothing personal. You see Daye has better stats, you aren't afraid to use them. Daye has worse stats, attribute it to a small sample size and a lack of playing time. Easy to see where we're going. That, despite his poor summer league showing. Good to know Daye has passionate proponents though. I just hope we won't have to wait for another Philly game to see what he's made of.

[szkorhetz]

I live in Hungary, and I quite have a good relationship with some Serbian basketball coaches and basketball personals and the Spurs contacted Darko Milicic, to come back next year.
You heard it here, from me first. Darko does not want to come back, but definitely interested about working with Pop and Duncan even he is afraid he wouldn't play too much as the Spurs want him to essentially take the Baynes role with shot-blocking.

[100%duncan]

Darko does not want to come back

Hey, atleast we're not the only one.

[FireMicoHalili]

I live in Hungary, and I quite have a good relationship with some Serbian basketball coaches and basketball personals and the Spurs contacted Darko Milicic, to come back next year.
You heard it here, from me first. Darko does not want to come back, but definitely interested about working with Pop and Duncan even he is afraid he wouldn't play too much as the Spurs want him to essentially take the Baynes role with shot-blocking.
Oh boy wait til the scrubs from Project Spurs get their hands on this

[szkorhetz]

Hey, atleast we're not the only one.
I actually seen a lot of pre-NBA Darko with the underage national teams and he was toying with the guys. He looked liked Duncan with Amare like athleticism. He averaged like 22 & 14 in a tournament. The Pistons fucked him up, so yeah. Even I loved him, hi is a not a player we should get right now. His only strengths are his HUGE body and his shot-blocking.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Yeah sorry mate, I noticed a trend in your arguments, nothing personal. You see Daye has better stats, you aren't afraid to use them. Daye has worse stats, attribute it to a small sample size and a lack of playing time. Easy to see where we're going. That, despite his poor summer league showing. Good to know Daye has passionate proponents though. I just hope we won't have to wait for another Philly game to see what he's made of.

Since that one Philly game accounted for maybe about 20% of his playing time, maybe, we might have to wait that long. Hard to see what you're made of without PT. Regarding summer league, I think my defense of Daye obscures all of the criticism that I give him, as well. I was critical of his fouling, last year. He fouled too much, and he was too eager on upfakes, getting up into the air, and crashing down on the offensive player for an easy foul call. I didn't see him do that once in summer league. I am still cautious about his defense being acceptable, but it was during summer league. And, lastly, I worry about his work ethic, a little. He is a little Hollywood for a player that is struggling to make it. I try to be very measured, but due to the large number of random negative statements about him, from different sources, it may appear that I am bias, or wearing rose colored glasses. I am not. I do not hold his summer league stats in as high a regard because all of these people that he is getting compared to, such as Omri Casspi, are not having their summer league stats held against them, for example. You just trot out a Casspi>Daye. That is not an argument, that is just an opinion. An opinion, that when we shine lights on the numbers, don't really hold up, and I'm not cherry picking numbers. Career 3 point shooting is a wash. That is not a small sample. Career three point shooting .352, and .353. Daye actually edges him out by a hair, but so close we could just say equal. In addition to that, if you look at PER, Omri doesn't outclass him in career PER in any category, except maybe 2pt%, which is by about 2-3% points. In other categories, there is little difference, until you get to blocks, where Daye is significantly higher, and free throw percentage, which is 10% higher for Daye. These are career numbers, not small samples. And, in general, I think better free throw shooters end up being better shooters in general, over the course of a career.

Then when you compare their most recent NBA work, Daye 41% from 3, and Casspi 34% from 3. Both small samples, 29 and 70ish shots, respectively. So, I don't think it's fair to say that Casspi>Daye in any statistically significant way. If it is your opinion, well, I can't argue with that. But, the numbers don't bear out. Again, career numbers. You are arguing to pick up a guy that was just released for being inconsistent from the 3 point line, to replace a guy that was better from the 3 point line last year, and has been at least equal over their careers. It doesn't make sense. Add to that, Daye has already had time in the system. Casspi would be starting anew.

I didn't compare Garcia, although he compares favorably in assists and shooting, he is a 2/3, and Casspi and Daye are 3/4s. Garcia is a 9 year veteran. Garcia will earn more money than Daye. Garcia may be a better player, but comparing the two is much more difficult because of all of these differences.

Regarding my supposed bias, again, I think it would be unfair to hold Daye's summer league shooting against him in these arguments because we don't have Casspi's summer league numbers. However, I did criticize Daye's shooting performance several times in those threads. He shot very poorly. I don't believe it will continue into the regular season, but I have said that if it does, I will be the first one calling for him to not be renewed, cut, or traded at the end of the year. But, summer league is what it is. If he did well, (which in many respects he did well), detractors would have chalked it up to lesser competition. It goes both ways.

In regard to some of the times I have asked people to re-evaluate (but never disregard) his 3 point shooting percentage with an open mind, it is in regard to three main issues:

1)

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/hamilton-center-pistons-turmoil-152200263--nba.html

John Kuester (2009-11)

Kuester was an assistant on the 2004 championship Pistons team but had a very different (http://www.sportinglife360.com/index.php/the-detroit-pistons-coaching-carousel-70779/#sourcesAndCitations) experience as head coach. The Pistons compiled a 57-107 record in Kuester's two seasons at the helm and missed the playoffs in consecutive years for the first time since 1993-95. Relationships with his players were abysmal during Kuester's second season. A dispute between Kuester and Hamilton led to Hamilton being benched for nearly seven weeks. Meanwhile, point guard Rodney Stuckey was benched twice. After seven players missed at least part of a shoot around in Philadelphia on Feb. 25, 2011, Kuester responded by only playing the remaining six players in a blowout loss. On June 5, 2011, four days after Tom Gores finished an agreement to buy the Pistons from Bill Davidson's widow, Karen Davidson, Kuester was fired.

Daye was involved in this, according to one article. This turmoil that he was involved in, to some extent, corresponds to following his worst shooting percentage year of his first four years: .210 under the new coach. That is a smaller sample of 62 shots sandwiched between two larger samples where he shot VERY well.

http://pistonpowered.com/2011/06/07/austin-daye-john-kuester-played-favorites-but-that-happens-everywhere/

He is attributed as being a "hard worker" in this article, but I think he had a bad attitude, and was part of the problem instead of just putting his nose to the grindstone, he was part of the rumor mill, and locker room discontent. I don't really know what happened, but it was a clusterfuck. The coaching change did not go well for him the next year. Frank was also soon fired. Whatever the case, something wasn't right in Detroit, and he had a HORRIFFIC shooting year from 3. The question I ask when I look at that number is: Is he likely to shoot anywhere near .210 in San Antonio? No. Is that year possibly due to the turmoil and him being a little bit of a head case? I think yes. So, I do weigh that number less when making a SUBJECTIVE case for Daye. He still shot .210. I can't deny that. But, I have to ask if that is likely to repeat itself in San Antonio. His college numbers say no. The years before and after that year say it is probably an anomaly.

2) His rookie year was lower. 30.5% When making a subjective case for him, I do weight his rookie year less. He is, afterall, a rookie. He had a higher 3 point percentage than Danny Green, his rookie year (and their sophomore years), for example, and Danny is a great 3 point shooter, now, with The Spurs. And, a lot of rookies don't get to play at all. He was thrown right into the fire. So, Subjectively, I do make an allowance for those two years. Being a young player, in a lot of bad situations, they heavily weight against him in his career numbers.


3) In Memphis, his arrival and stay was right around the same time Hollins was being ousted, or "not renewed". That was not a stable environment, either. If you remember, Hollins sideline eruption on a player, probably deserved, but not exactly a hospitable environment for a new guy - when your coach is going Bobby Knight on pro players on national TV. Toronto is perennially bad. In Memphis, and Totonto, his numbers were not great, but weren't as bad as those other two mentioned, and they were smaller samples. His best shooting years were when he was shooting the most. This is pretty logical. When he got bounced around to those last two teams, his 3 point percentage suffered. It would be ideal if he shot great each time he got traded into a new tumultuous situation, with limited playing time. A little unrealistic, but it would be nice. But, will he have ANY of these things to worry about in San Antonio? No. In San Antonio, he will find as stable an environment as one can find in professional basketball. His role will be as clearly defined as anywhere in basketball. He's older. Hopefully more mature. His coach will be here for several years, and the transition will likely be smooth.

I think that The Spurs would try to read between the lines when making evaluations like this, except even more so than I do, of course. I don't think they look at that year and say: He shot .210 from 3, he sucks. He's inconsistent. Absolutely, they will attempt to determine if there was an aberration.

[FireMicoHalili]

littlecoyotecoin (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=45419) TL;DR, and as I said I won't be setting the bar high for your boy. As you have astutely pointed out, Casspi/Garcia > Daye might have been an opinion, which it is, and a personal preference at that. You came out with stats and even if Daye actually has a better PER or shooting percentage (pretty sure he loses out at win shares), it doesn't actually matter, for me at least. Been a fan of Casspi. That's all there is. That, and he's going to add some Asian/international flavor to the roster.

Seems to me Daye's been having a run of bad luck wherever he ends up though. Will probably catch his lucky break here, as you have been implying, yet it remains a mere hope or an expectancy. Regarding summer league, you see rookies like TJ Warren and Doug McDermott put up solid numbers, if not consistently, without sputtering as much. Personally (keyword) expected him to at least be one of the more prominent players in SL.

[littlecoyotecoin]

littlecoyotecoin (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=45419) TL;DR, and as I said I won't be setting the bar high for your boy. As you have astutely pointed out, Casspi/Garcia > Daye might have been an opinion, which it is, and a personal preference at that. You came out with stats and even if Daye actually has a better PER or shooting percentage (pretty sure he loses out at win shares), it doesn't actually, for me at least. Been a fan of Casspi. That's all there is. That, and he's going to add some Asian/international flavor to the roster.

Seems to me Daye's been having a run of bad luck wherever he ends up though. Will probably catch his lucky break here, as you have been implying, yet it remains a mere hope or an expectancy. Regarding summer league, you see rookies like TJ Warren and Doug McDermott put up solid numbers, if not consistently, without sputtering as much. Personally (keyword) expected him to at least be one of the more prominent players in SL.

It's all good. It will be more clear in a year, and we can reflect. I like bargains. He may be one. If not, I'm all for bringing in the next guy.

[Ice009]

It's all good. It will be more clear in a year, and we can reflect. I like bargains. He may be one. If not, I'm all for bringing in the next guy.

What's you take on this. I posted it in another thread, not sure if you saw it or didn't think it was worth replying to.


I'll tell you guys something. Daye scoring 16 points or whatever (not sure on the exact numbers) from 15 shots a game in Summer League is pathetic. Efficiency is something that makes someone a good or better player.

If you give me that many shots per game consistently, I'd be able to score 16 points too. A few people say he played well overall, but I disagree. His body language was horrible anytime he made a mistake or things didn't go his way, he didn't seem like much of a leader and I just don't like the way that he carried himself out there. Didn't seem to help or prop up his teammates at all. That just doesn't give me any confidence in him and I doubt it inspires his teammates, in the least, to even give a fuck about him.

Seeing Ruff list him as the backup SF in the post above just disgusts me. At this point, I'm not a fan of his at all.

At least Ayres carries himself better on the court and seems more upbeat, more positive. He still sucks, but it's not his fault that the Spurs signed him.

I'm particularly interested in your take on his body language and leadership skills. I thought he was mostly awful out there in SL and carried himself poorly out there, but some people say that he played well (apart from having a bad tournament shooting wise).

Maybe his body language can be attributed to it being SL and he wasn't enthused about it, but other, older players have been sent to SL and I don't recall them showing such poor body language out there. He just seems/acts like he's entitled. I don't really like what I've seen of him attitude wise/hunger wise. He just doesn't seem hungry or like he wants it badly enough. I'd rather have a player with slightly less talent that wants it more than anything, wants it really bad, is willing to work his ass off for it. I don't think he works hard enough. I think he needs to be out of league and in desperation before he might come to the realization that he needs to give it 100% out there on the court and in the gym. Something's just not clicking with this guy IMO.

[32fastest]

I live in Hungary, and I quite have a good relationship with some Serbian basketball coaches and basketball personals and the Spurs contacted Darko Milicic, to come back next year.
You heard it here, from me first. Darko does not want to come back, but definitely interested about working with Pop and Duncan even he is afraid he wouldn't play too much as the Spurs want him to essentially take the Baynes role with shot-blocking.

The new tspence26

[32fastest]

Since that one Philly game accounted for maybe about 20% of his playing time, maybe, we might have to wait that long. Hard to see what you're made of without PT. Regarding summer league, I think my defense of Daye obscures all of the criticism that I give him, as well. I was critical of his fouling, last year. He fouled too much, and he was too eager on upfakes, getting up into the air, and crashing down on the offensive player for an easy foul call. I didn't see him do that once in summer league. I am still cautious about his defense being acceptable, but it was during summer league. And, lastly, I worry about his work ethic, a little. He is a little Hollywood for a player that is struggling to make it. I try to be very measured, but due to the large number of random negative statements about him, from different sources, it may appear that I am bias, or wearing rose colored glasses. I am not. I do not hold his summer league stats in as high a regard because all of these people that he is getting compared to, such as Omri Casspi, are not having their summer league stats held against them, for example. You just trot out a Casspi>Daye. That is not an argument, that is just an opinion. An opinion, that when we shine lights on the numbers, don't really hold up, and I'm not cherry picking numbers. Career 3 point shooting is a wash. That is not a small sample. Career three point shooting .352, and .353. Daye actually edges him out by a hair, but so close we could just say equal. In addition to that, if you look at PER, Omri doesn't outclass him in career PER in any category, except maybe 2pt%, which is by about 2-3% points. In other categories, there is little difference, until you get to blocks, where Daye is significantly higher, and free throw percentage, which is 10% higher for Daye. These are career numbers, not small samples. And, in general, I think better free throw shooters end up being better shooters in general, over the course of a career.

Then when you compare their most recent NBA work, Daye 41% from 3, and Casspi 34% from 3. Both small samples, 29 and 70ish shots, respectively. So, I don't think it's fair to say that Casspi>Daye in any statistically significant way. If it is your opinion, well, I can't argue with that. But, the numbers don't bear out. Again, career numbers. You are arguing to pick up a guy that was just released for being inconsistent from the 3 point line, to replace a guy that was better from the 3 point line last year, and has been at least equal over their careers. It doesn't make sense. Add to that, Daye has already had time in the system. Casspi would be starting anew.

I didn't compare Garcia, although he compares favorably in assists and shooting, he is a 2/3, and Casspi and Daye are 3/4s. Garcia is a 9 year veteran. Garcia will earn more money than Daye. Garcia may be a better player, but comparing the two is much more difficult because of all of these differences.

Regarding my supposed bias, again, I think it would be unfair to hold Daye's summer league shooting against him in these arguments because we don't have Casspi's summer league numbers. However, I did criticize Daye's shooting performance several times in those threads. He shot very poorly. I don't believe it will continue into the regular season, but I have said that if it does, I will be the first one calling for him to not be renewed, cut, or traded at the end of the year. But, summer league is what it is. If he did well, (which in many respects he did well), detractors would have chalked it up to lesser competition. It goes both ways.

In regard to some of the times I have asked people to re-evaluate (but never disregard) his 3 point shooting percentage with an open mind, it is in regard to three main issues:

1)

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/hamilton-center-pistons-turmoil-152200263--nba.html

John Kuester (2009-11)

Kuester was an assistant on the 2004 championship Pistons team but had a very different (http://www.sportinglife360.com/index.php/the-detroit-pistons-coaching-carousel-70779/#sourcesAndCitations) experience as head coach. The Pistons compiled a 57-107 record in Kuester's two seasons at the helm and missed the playoffs in consecutive years for the first time since 1993-95. Relationships with his players were abysmal during Kuester's second season. A dispute between Kuester and Hamilton led to Hamilton being benched for nearly seven weeks. Meanwhile, point guard Rodney Stuckey was benched twice. After seven players missed at least part of a shoot around in Philadelphia on Feb. 25, 2011, Kuester responded by only playing the remaining six players in a blowout loss. On June 5, 2011, four days after Tom Gores finished an agreement to buy the Pistons from Bill Davidson's widow, Karen Davidson, Kuester was fired.

Daye was involved in this, according to one article. This turmoil that he was involved in, to some extent, corresponds to following his worst shooting percentage year of his first four years: .210 under the new coach. That is a smaller sample of 62 shots sandwiched between two larger samples where he shot VERY well.

http://pistonpowered.com/2011/06/07/austin-daye-john-kuester-played-favorites-but-that-happens-everywhere/

He is attributed as being a "hard worker" in this article, but I think he had a bad attitude, and was part of the problem instead of just putting his nose to the grindstone, he was part of the rumor mill, and locker room discontent. I don't really know what happened, but it was a clusterfuck. The coaching change did not go well for him the next year. Frank was also soon fired. Whatever the case, something wasn't right in Detroit, and he had a HORRIFFIC shooting year from 3. The question I ask when I look at that number is: Is he likely to shoot anywhere near .210 in San Antonio? No. Is that year possibly due to the turmoil and him being a little bit of a head case? I think yes. So, I do weigh that number less when making a SUBJECTIVE case for Daye. He still shot .210. I can't deny that. But, I have to ask if that is likely to repeat itself in San Antonio. His college numbers say no. The years before and after that year say it is probably an anomaly.

2) His rookie year was lower. 30.5% When making a subjective case for him, I do weight his rookie year less. He is, afterall, a rookie. He had a higher 3 point percentage than Danny Green, his rookie year (and their sophomore years), for example, and Danny is a great 3 point shooter, now, with The Spurs. And, a lot of rookies don't get to play at all. He was thrown right into the fire. So, Subjectively, I do make an allowance for those two years. Being a young player, in a lot of bad situations, they heavily weight against him in his career numbers.


3) In Memphis, his arrival and stay was right around the same time Hollins was being ousted, or "not renewed". That was not a stable environment, either. If you remember, Hollins sideline eruption on a player, probably deserved, but not exactly a hospitable environment for a new guy - when your coach is going Bobby Knight on pro players on national TV. Toronto is perennially bad. In Memphis, and Totonto, his numbers were not great, but weren't as bad as those other two mentioned, and they were smaller samples. His best shooting years were when he was shooting the most. This is pretty logical. When he got bounced around to those last two teams, his 3 point percentage suffered. It would be ideal if he shot great each time he got traded into a new tumultuous situation, with limited playing time. A little unrealistic, but it would be nice. But, will he have ANY of these things to worry about in San Antonio? No. In San Antonio, he will find as stable an environment as one can find in professional basketball. His role will be as clearly defined as anywhere in basketball. He's older. Hopefully more mature. His coach will be here for several years, and the transition will likely be smooth.

I think that The Spurs would try to read between the lines when making evaluations like this, except even more so than I do, of course. I don't think they look at that year and say: He shot .210 from 3, he sucks. He's inconsistent. Absolutely, they will attempt to determine if there was an aberration.

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/kickthecat75/didntread.gif (http://s593.photobucket.com/user/kickthecat75/media/didntread.gif.html)

Sorry. Kinda just wanted to see if the gif would work.

[FireMicoHalili]

Shams Charania: Ivan Johnson's deal with the Dallas Mavericks is for two seasons, partially guaranteed both years, sources tell RealGM.

Shams Charania: Ivan Johnson's deal with the Dallas Mavericks is for two seasons, partially guaranteed both years, sources tell RealGM.

Adrian Wojnarowski: Preference remains to stay in NBA, but Atlanta RFA Mike Scott considering lucrative three-year offer with CSKA-Moscow, sources tell Yahoo.

[Dex]

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/kickthecat75/didntread.gif (http://s593.photobucket.com/user/kickthecat75/media/didntread.gif.html)

Sorry. Kinda just wanted to see if the gif would work.

What is this, a gif for ants?

[SpursFan86]

You gotta think the Spurs have reached out to Marion by now, right? He's clearly not going back to Dallas at this point. I know you don't just dip into the MLE for the hell of it, but Marion fits the Spurs mold. Veteran with lots of playoff experience, good defender, and can hit open 3s. No one is going to offer Marion a big contract at this point (if they did, I'd imagine he'd have already been picked up by now).

Only thing that could prevent it from working out would be if he's looking for a big role...but he's 36 now and I'm guessing his focus is winning another ring. I hope we're at least looking into him. I'm obviously not going to get my hopes up as we've heard nothing about him and the Spurs having mutual interest, but I think it'd be a good signing and would really cap off a great offseason. Although I guess it would mean giving up on Baynes...unless we found a way to dump Ayres (yes please).

My pipe dream would be us signing Marion for some of the MLE, trading Ayres for a 2nd round pick, and then bringing Baynes back as well.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Oh boy wait til the scrubs from Project Spurs get their hands on this

Harsh. Why all the hate on those guys? The comments sections are empty, but their articles are timely, frequent and often interesting to me. What am I missing?

[HarlemHo 37]

Harsh. Why all the hate on those guys? The comments sections are empty, but their articles are timely, frequent and often interesting to me. What am I missing?

Sup Paul.

[FireMicoHalili]

Harsh. Why all the hate on those guys? The comments sections are empty, but their articles are timely, frequent and often interesting to me. What am I missing?
Most of their articles give the impression of much ado about nothing, like they're written just for the sake of meeting a quota or a deadline. What they write, most people already know. They're reliable with breaking news but the logic in their analyses is flimsy. Simply put, I've read better elsewhere.

Lol actually saw your comment in the Ayres article. They had to *really* dig deep to find something good in Ayres, ended up getting short-changed by being told he's paid only $1.75M a year so everything's fine, we've got good value here.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Most of their articles give the impression of much ado about nothing, like they're written just for the sake of meeting a quota or a deadline. What they write, most people already know. They're reliable with breaking news but the logic in their analyses is flimsy. Simply put, I've read better elsewhere.

Lol actually saw your comment in the Ayres article. They had to *really* dig deep to find something good in Ayres, ended up getting short-changed by being told he's paid only $1.75M a year so everything's fine, we've got good value here.

I copied and pasted it to the Ayres thread, just for relevance. I don't remember making much comment on it. What did I say? I did think that article was interesting, and a lot of work went into it. It had a lot of data on Baynes, Daye, and Splitter, too. One of the more interesting pieces on that site, I thought. Granted, it was in defense of, arguably, our worst player. But, that was the point, for me. What kind of Devil's Advocate case can be made for him? I don't remember their final conclusion, maybe they went overboard in praise of him, but there were some positive tid-bits in there. He's not great, but we have lived through some bad end-of-the-bench guys. Some were so bad they couldn't make it onto the floor at all. Maybe he's overpaid by $500k, a year, down to VM, and we can find someone better, both, but the hate is probably just a little overdone (and tacky on a personal level...I think I may have even been in on the act), as per usual, so I enjoyed the article from a contrarian, against the conventional wisdom point of view. He is still the first person I cut or trade, but I appreciated the slant of the article, reaching, or stretching how it may have been. I always like to assume the case that I'm wrong. Heliocentricity.

I like their quick and frequent reporting. 48MOH is ok, but slow with content. PtR is better, but not as prolific. Especially during the doldrums of summer, they give me something to check up on, to give me a little fix. SpursHomer, AirAlamo, slow, almost defunct. Who has interesting Spurs stuff to read on a daily basis that I am missing? Jeff McDonald? EN? I find a lot of the sites rehash the same old stuff...none of them would DARE publish that "In Defense Of Ayres" piece. They would write a 4th story about the Argentinian team struggling, or how great Timmy is.

I do hate that their site crashes my phone about 75% of the time. That does make me want to cuss them a little.

Regarding other articles on PS, several of them are long on pictures short on words. The articles sometimes read as almost a caption for the photo, instead of an article. Lazy writing. But, so what? I'm not exactly paying them. Sometimes I find a nugget. With all the hate towards them, I thought they fucked someone's mother.

[benstanfield]

What's you take on this. I posted it in another thread, not sure if you saw it or didn't think it was worth replying to.



I'm particularly interested in your take on his body language and leadership skills. I thought he was mostly awful out there in SL and carried himself poorly out there, but some people say that he played well (apart from having a bad tournament shooting wise).

Maybe his body language can be attributed to it being SL and he wasn't enthused about it, but other, older players have been sent to SL and I don't recall them showing such poor body language out there. He just seems/acts like he's entitled. I don't really like what I've seen of him attitude wise/hunger wise. He just doesn't seem hungry or like he wants it badly enough. I'd rather have a player with slightly less talent that wants it more than anything, wants it really bad, is willing to work his ass off for it. I don't think he works hard enough. I think he needs to be out of league and in desperation before he might come to the realization that he needs to give it 100% out there on the court and in the gym. Something's just not clicking with this guy IMO.

He led the SL team in points, rebounds, and assists. Was second in steals and blocks. If not liking his body language means he wasn't "hungry" enough I'm not sure what he could do otherwise. He will be lucky to crack double digit minutes per game. That's his role on the team. Did you want him to average 30ppg 15 rpg while being the floor general and assistant coach? You expect that out of a ~1m/yr 13th man?

If you want to talk about efficiency, the PG play on the SL team was horseshit all around. Daye won't be taking mainly turnaround jumpers if he plays in the RS. Daye shot horribly but that isn't unheard of in a 6 game span. He is what he is. If he can shoot ~35% from three and decently defend backup SF/PFs that is golden. I don't get why people are so polarized about this guy.

[benstanfield]

I wonder if Spurs fans had long circular discussions about whether this guy was the savior every offseason

http://foreverdunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/1_215457_1.jpeg

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I wonder if Spurs fans had long circular discussions about whether this guy was the savior every offseason

http://foreverdunk.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/1_215457_1.jpeg

I remember ST when he played for us, and no, no saviour discussions. :lol

He's still playing in China, apparently: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mengke_Bateer

In the 2005 Chinese season, Bateer "averaged 25 points, 11 rebounds and 5 assists"! :lol

[benstanfield]

I remember ST when he played for us, and no, no saviour discussions. :lol

He's still playing in China, apparently: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mengke_Bateer

In the 2005 Chinese season, Bateer "averaged 25 points, 11 rebounds and 5 assists"! :lol


:lol I was 11 in '03, I just remember seeing this huge Asian dude in sweats at the outskirts of every huddle and wondering if he was a doctor or something.

:lol Prime Bateer vs Prime Ayres would probably be a battle for the ages.

[heyheymymy]

You gotta think the Spurs have reached out to Marion by now, right? He's clearly not going back to Dallas at this point. I know you don't just dip into the MLE for the hell of it, but Marion fits the Spurs mold. Veteran with lots of playoff experience, good defender, and can hit open 3s. No one is going to offer Marion a big contract at this point (if they did, I'd imagine he'd have already been picked up by now).

Only thing that could prevent it from working out would be if he's looking for a big role...but he's 36 now and I'm guessing his focus is winning another ring. I hope we're at least looking into him. I'm obviously not going to get my hopes up as we've heard nothing about him and the Spurs having mutual interest, but I think it'd be a good signing and would really cap off a great offseason. Although I guess it would mean giving up on Baynes...unless we found a way to dump Ayres (yes please).

My pipe dream would be us signing Marion for some of the MLE, trading Ayres for a 2nd round pick, and then bringing Baynes back as well.

seems like the more you hear about it, the less likely it happens. Diaw was a recent exception. No news is good news at this point, I guess. But I'm still not sold on Marion with the Spurs just yet.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

:lol I was 11 in '03, I just remember seeing this huge Asian dude in sweats at the outskirts of every huddle and wondering if he was a doctor or something.

:lol Prime Bateer vs Prime Ayres would probably be a battle for the ages.

I think I might take Ayers... :wow :lmao

[FireMicoHalili]

I copied and pasted it to the Ayres thread, just for relevance. I don't remember making much comment on it. What did I say? I did think that article was interesting, and a lot of work went into it. It had a lot of data on Baynes, Daye, and Splitter, too. One of the more interesting pieces on that site, I thought. Granted, it was in defense of, arguably, our worst player. But, that was the point, for me. What kind of Devil's Advocate case can be made for him? I don't remember their final conclusion, maybe they went overboard in praise of him, but there were some positive tid-bits in there. He's not great, but we have lived through some bad end-of-the-bench guys. Some were so bad they couldn't make it onto the floor at all. Maybe he's overpaid by $500k, a year, down to VM, and we can find someone better, both, but the hate is probably just a little overdone (and tacky on a personal level...I think I may have even been in on the act), as per usual, so I enjoyed the article from a contrarian, against the conventional wisdom point of view. He is still the first person I cut or trade, but I appreciated the slant of the article, reaching, or stretching how it may have been. I always like to assume the case that I'm wrong. Heliocentricity.

I like their quick and frequent reporting. 48MOH is ok, but slow with content. PtR is better, but not as prolific. Especially during the doldrums of summer, they give me something to check up on, to give me a little fix. SpursHomer, AirAlamo, slow, almost defunct. Who has interesting Spurs stuff to read on a daily basis that I am missing? Jeff McDonald? EN? I find a lot of the sites rehash the same old stuff...none of them would DARE publish that "In Defense Of Ayres" piece. They would write a 4th story about the Argentinian team struggling, or how great Timmy is.

I do hate that their site crashes my phone about 75% of the time. That does make me want to cuss them a little.

Regarding other articles on PS, several of them are long on pictures short on words. The articles sometimes read as almost a caption for the photo, instead of an article. Lazy writing. But, so what? I'm not exactly paying them. Sometimes I find a nugget. With all the hate towards them, I thought they fucked someone's mother.
As to your comment that he has positive aspects...no one's taking them away. Still doesn't take away the fact he isn't that good, or that someone else out there is better. As to PS actually publishing something like that....daring, yes, but a novel take isn't always right, nor should its novelty be taken as genius or smart. Maybe no one thought of pitching the idea because the idea isn't worth developing.

P.S. Not being paid doesn't mean we can't critique their content. One can only choose to refuse to read. We aren't exactly paying the Spurs too, yet we talk about them in detail.

[Ice009]

He led the SL team in points, rebounds, and assists. Was second in steals and blocks. If not liking his body language means he wasn't "hungry" enough I'm not sure what he could do otherwise. He will be lucky to crack double digit minutes per game. That's his role on the team. Did you want him to average 30ppg 15 rpg while being the floor general and assistant coach? You expect that out of a ~1m/yr 13th man?

If you want to talk about efficiency, the PG play on the SL team was horseshit all around. Daye won't be taking mainly turnaround jumpers if he plays in the RS. Daye shot horribly but that isn't unheard of in a 6 game span. He is what he is. If he can shoot ~35% from three and decently defend backup SF/PFs that is golden. I don't get why people are so polarized about this guy.

That would be nowhere near golden. We've got a player on the team, Matt Bonner, who could probably do better than that, especially shooting a higher percentage from 3 point range than 35% if that is the number you're after. I'd even classify Bonner as a better defender. If Daye can't outplay Bonner, then he shouldn't even be on the team. What use does he have?

He's in this situation because he hasn't played to his talents or shown enough desire on any of the other teams he's been on. Everyone can see that he has talent, but it looks like he lacks something, just doesn't seem to be able to put it all together, and it might be mostly mental, which to me, doesn't seem like he wants it enough.

[Obstructed_View]

He led the SL team in points, rebounds, and assists. Was second in steals and blocks. If not liking his body language means he wasn't "hungry" enough I'm not sure what he could do otherwise. He will be lucky to crack double digit minutes per game. That's his role on the team. Did you want him to average 30ppg 15 rpg while being the floor general and assistant coach? You expect that out of a ~1m/yr 13th man?
He was picked at the same draft position as Kawhi Leonard. He's got the talent to be much more than a 13th man. We know he can lead a summer league team in points, rebounds and assists without really trying, because we watched him do that. It's the "not really trying" part that's the killer. Asking if he's capable of playing up to his potential on an actual NBA team is not the same as asking him to put up 30 and 15.


If you want to talk about efficiency, the PG play on the SL team was horseshit all around. Daye won't be taking mainly turnaround jumpers if he plays in the RS. Daye shot horribly but that isn't unheard of in a 6 game span. He is what he is. If he can shoot ~35% from three and decently defend backup SF/PFs that is golden. I don't get why people are so polarized about this guy.
Agreed about the PG play, but if he can shoot 35 percent from three point range and decently defend then he's going to be off the team before the trade deadline, just like Nando was. People are polarized because roster spots are at a premium, and the Spurs don't need anyone at Daye's age who isn't capable of working into the rotation. 35 percent and decent defense won't come close to cutting it.

The reason nobody gave a shit about Mengke Bateer contributing in 2003 is because they had the two time league MVP on their front line playing 40 minutes a night.

[UnWantedTheory]

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt19/kickthecat75/didntread.gif (http://s593.photobucket.com/user/kickthecat75/media/didntread.gif.html)

Sorry. Kinda just wanted to see if the gif would work.
It has to be at least.....3 times bigger than this!

[littlecoyotecoin]

As to your comment that he has positive aspects...no one's taking them away. Still doesn't take away the fact he isn't that good, or that someone else out there is better. As to PS actually publishing something like that....daring, yes, but a novel take isn't always right, nor should its novelty be taken as genius or smart. Maybe no one thought of pitching the idea because the idea isn't worth developing.

P.S. Not being paid doesn't mean we can't critique their content. One can only choose to refuse to read. We aren't exactly paying the Spurs too, yet we talk about them in detail.

I have no idea where any of the stuff in bold comes from. I said he was, arguably, the worst player on the team, and still the first one I cut or trade if we can get someone better, nor did I say their take was right (although some parts of it were, it was a lot of numbers that were hard to argue with) or genius (??) (I don't remember their conclusion, but I am pretty sure I didn't describe it as 'genius'). Nor did I say their content couldn't or shouldn't be critiqued? I even critiqued it myself. I questioned the LEVEL of the critique. The hate (and name-calling). It's all about the levels, Jerry. Pooch shoutout.

Their article did corroborate my view that the hate for Ayers, like their site, is overdone. He has better stats than the peanut gallery gives him credit for (myself included)...probably why Pop gives him so many minutes in comparison to a lot of other 13-15th men in the past. He's not doing everything wrong, although sometimes it appears so. He's got better stats in some areas than Splitter, and Splitter makes 9 million (Please, please, please, I beg don't read that and quote me back that I said that Ayers is better than Splitter). The mention of Bateer is also relevant. I was going to mention him, too. I don't remember anyone hating him, or wanting to gouge their eyes out at watching him play, slit their wrists, or his. A lot of it comes down to the fact that Ayres got overpaid by a few hundred thousand dollars a year, as league minimum is over a million dollars, maybe 1.2, for him? But, is that his fault? The Spurs overpaid him. I agree on that. We could have had something as good, cheaper. Hell, we probably could have had HIM, cheaper. But, really meaningless in the grand scheme of things, and we use him to burn some minutes until we get something better. He actually played quite a few minutes, saving Timmy, and it didn't seem to hurt our record in the end, much. 62 wins and 1st overall. I am sure they are ALWAYS looking for something better. But, he's been much more useful than the Bateers of years past. I will even go out on a limb and say that the Joseph, Ayers, Daye, Baynes, Bonner 11-15 end of the bench is one of the more utilitarian ends of the bench we've had in a long time (I'll put Anderson at 10, as he's going to be here for at least two years, probably, while - the others may be on a revolving door), with a few players with some possible upside.

As an unfortunately rabid fan, I prefer to have lots of different sources. I prefer novel takes to rehashed ones. Even if the novel takes are wrong. I like to read opposing points of view, even if they're wrong, because sometimes I am.

And, regarding pay, well, many of us DO pay The Spurs. Some in more direct ways: ticket sales, gear, food and beverage sales, etc. Others in more indirect ways - TV ratings, etc. And, they all get paid handsomely, even the Daye's of the group make a million dollars.

Whoever runs Project Spurs probably makes 40k a year, and very little if any of it from that site. That site may even run negative. It seems more like a labor of love than financial gain. Several of the articles are poorly done, but I would rather have it than it go away. And, I try not to get all personal over it as ST is wont to do. I am not always successful, but I try.

[littlecoyotecoin]

He was picked at the same draft position as Kawhi Leonard. He's got the talent to be much more than a 13th man. We know he can lead a summer league team in points, rebounds and assists without really trying, because we watched him do that. It's the "not really trying" part that's the killer. Asking if he's capable of playing up to his potential on an actual NBA team is not the same as asking him to put up 30 and 15.


Agreed about the PG play, but if he can shoot 35 percent from three point range and decently defend then he's going to be off the team before the trade deadline, just like Nando was. People are polarized because roster spots are at a premium, and the Spurs don't need anyone at Daye's age who isn't capable of working into the rotation. 35 percent and decent defense won't come close to cutting it.

The reason nobody gave a shit about Mengke Bateer contributing in 2003 is because they had the two time league MVP on their front line playing 40 minutes a night.

Last things first. A very similar argument can be said about Daye/Anderson, and anyone else that is going to try to play at the SF position. They have the reigning FMVP at SF playing right in front of them, who will play the lion's share of the minutes, who is young, and in ascension. Yet, people harangue Daye like Kawhi doesn't exist. No one gave a shit about Bateer because Duncan existed, and people should give less of a shit about Daye because Kawhi does exist.

He'll likely play more than 30 minutes, 30-35 minutes, leaving 13-18 minutes for everyone else that plays at that position: Belli, Manu, Green, Daye, Anderson. Again, there isn't the glaring need at SF for people to be wringing their hands over, unless in case of injury, but if Duncan went down in your example, we were screwed, too.

Regarding decent defense and 35% from 3 not even being close to enough to keep him here past the trade deadline: Of course it's close. Everyone was salivating over Channing Frye who shoots .385 for his career. It's CLOSE. Maybe not quite good enough, but 41% was what he did shoot. The proof is in the pudding. If he shoots anywhere in between .35 and .41, he's right in Channing Frye territory, and the decent defense was already assumed. So, you've got a 6'11" guy that shoots Channing Frye numbers, passes the ball well, gets rebounds, deflections, and assists. Gets to the line, and he does that for less than Channing Frye would ask for, and he will ACTUALLY PLAY HERE. Channing Frye is a pipe dream, whereas Daye is actually attainable. Of course, these things have to manifest themselves. You, I, and Ben Stanfield assumed the defense was acceptable. And, we will have to see what he shoots over a season in our system.

Lastly, the "without even trying". I am on the fence on this one. I have mentioned that I do think he has maturity issues, but I don't see them manifesting as "not even trying" on the court. I see effort on the court. I don't like how he argues with the refs after stupid fouls. And, in summer league, I thought he could have done a little more to contest at the basket on help defense. I don't know if he was trying to cut down on the fouling, which is an issue for him, or he was "not trying". But, those are the only two effort things I see, and one is more maturity than "not trying" (the arguing about stupid fouls he was obviously guilty of, or arguing FOR a foul call instead of getting back on defense). The other doesn't bear out with the numbers, because even though he looked to be holding back on contesting at the rim a little, his shot blocking and altering shots in general was good, so I can't really hold too much against him there, either.

I do think that his lanky frame and the fact that he isn't the fastest guy on the court does work against him in creating a perception that he is not "hustling", maybe. I think it's easy to pick on him for that, a little. It draws attention to it more than it should.

Off the court, I think is where he is not trying as much. I think that he plays too many pickup games instead of working to become a professional. He got done with Drew League, and flew out to Rucker park from L.A. the next day to play more pick up games. I guess that's better than nothing, to stay in shape, but I wonder if he becomes a better PRO by spending more time with a shooting coach over the summer, for example, instead of flying around the country to hang out with rappers and take a bunch of selfies, and pictures of his shoes. I don't know if that is too harsh, or I'm too old, but if I were so close to being cut, maybe I choose my extra-curricular summer events differently. If he can't shoot and play defense, he is pretty useless to us, or anyone else. Is defense emphasized in Drew League? Hell no. It's like the NBA all-star game. Rucker park? No. And, we've seen what wonders that working with a shooting coach over time can do. There is evidence of weight training, and personal trainer/basketball trainer (he trains with Kevin Durant this summer, same trainer, train together at times Daye and Durant, as they've got photos together from workouts).

[FireMicoHalili]

I have no idea where any of the stuff in bold comes from. I said he was, arguably, the worst player on the team, and still the first one I cut or trade if we can get someone better, nor did I say their take was right (although some parts of it were, it was a lot of numbers that were hard to argue with) or genius (??) (I don't remember their conclusion, but I am pretty sure I didn't describe it as 'genius'). Nor did I say their content couldn't or shouldn't be critiqued? I even critiqued it myself. I questioned the LEVEL of the critique. The hate (and name-calling). It's all about the levels, Jerry. Pooch shoutout.


Their article did corroborate my view that the hate for Ayers, like their site, is overdone. He has better stats than the peanut gallery gives him credit for (myself included)...probably why Pop gives him so many minutes in comparison to a lot of other 13-15th men in the past. He's not doing everything wrong, although sometimes it appears so. He's got better stats in some areas than Splitter, and Splitter makes 9 million (Please, please, please, I beg don't read that and quote me back that I said that Ayers is better than Splitter). The mention of Bateer is also relevant. I was going to mention him, too. I don't remember anyone hating him, or wanting to gouge their eyes out at watching him play, slit their wrists, or his. A lot of it comes down to the fact that Ayres got overpaid by a few hundred thousand dollars a year, as league minimum is over a million dollars, maybe 1.2, for him? But, is that his fault? The Spurs overpaid him. I agree on that. We could have had something as good, cheaper. Hell, we probably could have had HIM, cheaper. But, really meaningless in the grand scheme of things, and we use him to burn some minutes until we get something better. He actually played quite a few minutes, saving Timmy, and it didn't seem to hurt our record in the end, much. 62 wins and 1st overall. I am sure they are ALWAYS looking for something better. But, he's been much more useful than the Bateers of years past. I will even go out on a limb and say that the Joseph, Ayers, Daye, Baynes, Bonner 11-15 end of the bench is one of the more utilitarian ends of the bench we've had in a long time (I'll put Anderson at 10, as he's going to be here for at least two years, probably, while - the others may be on a revolving door), with a few players with some possible upside.


As an unfortunately rabid fan, I prefer to have lots of different sources. I prefer novel takes to rehashed ones. Even if the novel takes are wrong. I like to read opposing points of view, even if they're wrong, because sometimes I am.


And, regarding pay, well, many of us DO pay The Spurs. Some in more direct ways: ticket sales, gear, food and beverage sales, etc. Others in more indirect ways - TV ratings, etc. And, they all get paid handsomely, even the Daye's of the group make a million dollars.


Whoever runs Project Spurs probably makes 40k a year, and very little if any of it from that site. That site may even run negative. It seems more like a labor of love than financial gain. Several of the articles are poorly done, but I would rather have it than it go away. And, I try not to get all personal over it as ST is wont to do. I am not always successful, but I try.
I was talking about the article, not your opinion, since it had "positive tidbits". Comments on Ayres were comments on the article, so please go through it again. You didn't say they weren't supposed to be critiqued - explicitly. You however said "lazy writing. So what? I'm not exactly paying them". I don't pay but that doesn't preclude my right to call their writing out. You can appreciate the slant of the article, sure, it's contrarian, an exotic take, it still doesn't mean it's good. You know when you've read better.

As to Ayres, my issue is that he wasn't overpaid. Like most, I feel the roster spot could have been used keeping someone else.

Now we're just going into semantics. Not paying the a Spurs but indirectly paying them through direct and indirect ways? How about the transaction cost of going through the website? The revenues they make off ads? Following your logic some or many of us pay Project Spurs.


I'd be wary of someone who values novelty over rightness, even if the latter is rehashed. No problem as to opposing points of view, my problem is with substance. If you're going to play devil's advocate despite wrongness...I don't think we'd be in agreement here.


As of now we're just splitting hairs here. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Not the first time I got called out on a personal preference. Quoting you: "To each his own".

[littlecoyotecoin]

I was talking about the article, not your opinion, since it had "positive tidbits". Comments on Ayres were comments on the article, so please go through it again. You didn't say they weren't supposed to be critiqued - explicitly. You however said "lazy writing. So what? I'm not exactly paying them". I don't pay but that doesn't preclude my right to call their writing out. You can appreciate the slant of the article, sure, it's contrarian, an exotic take, it still doesn't mean it's good. You know when you've read better.

As to Ayres, my issue is that he wasn't overpaid. Like most, I feel the roster spot could have been used keeping someone else.

Now we're just going into semantics. Not paying the a Spurs but indirectly paying them through direct and indirect ways? How about the transaction cost of going through the website? The revenues they make off ads? Following your logic some or many of us pay Project Spurs.


I'd be wary of someone who values novelty over rightness, even if the latter is rehashed. No problem as to opposing points of view, my problem is with substance. If you're going to play devil's advocate despite wrongness...I don't think we'd be in agreement here.


As of now we're just splitting hairs here. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Not the first time I got called out on a personal preference. Quoting you: "To each his own".

I will read it again. I don't remember any outlandish takes they had. I was in a hurry, and did skim parts. Haven't made it back. I thought a lot of the data was interesting, and made some good points. It was a LONG article, and someone put a lot of time into it. With anything that long, there are probably going to be parts that were good/right and bad/wrong. If I only read things I agree with, too, I fall victim to groupthink, etc. All sorts of ills. I wish that William F. Buckley, Christopher Hitchens, Kurt Vonnegut, or Samuel Clemens wrote that article "In Defense of Ayres". Or, maybe Stephen Hawking, or Wojnarowski. They didn't. I don't have much of an option there. Maybe I need your sources. Who are you reading on Spurs material that publishes frequently? There is always something better somewhere, we can agree on that. Thank goodness my boss isn't looking to replace me on a daily basis, because he can find better.

[FireMicoHalili]

I will read it again. I don't remember any outlandish takes they had. I was in a hurry, and did skim parts. Haven't made it back. I thought a lot of the data was interesting, and made some good points. It was a LONG article, and someone put a lot of time into it. With anything that long, there are probably going to be parts that were good/right and bad/wrong. If I only read things I agree with, too, I fall victim to groupthink, etc. All sorts of ills. I wish that William F. Buckley, Christopher Hitchens, Kurt Vonnegut, or Samuel Clemens wrote that article "In Defense of Ayres". Or, maybe Stephen Hawking, or Wojnarowski. They didn't. I don't have much of an option there. Maybe I need your sources. Who are you reading on Spurs material that publishes frequently? There is always something better somewhere, we can agree on that. Thank goodness my boss isn't looking to replace me on a daily basis, because he can find better.
(1) It isn't so much as falling victim to groupthink as it is to defend a viewpoint which you couldn't defend yourself.
(2) if you're arguing based on frequency of articles published, you win, but the battleground was substance and quality. I didn't put them with other spurs sites, I said it was a personal preference of other writers and blogs. Not just the Ayres article, but their writing in general. When you see Zach Lowe come up with a profile or dissect plays with surgical precision, you'd actually enjoy reading articles. But I guess I'm just not as open-minded as you are, not like I nitpick on other people's arguments just for the sake of nitpicking and playing devil's advocate while wallowing in gray areas.
(3) Keeping a job =/= reading a blog. Could've used a better metaphor there amigo. But hey, if your boss can find better, I don't see why you shouldn't be let go once your contract is up. Just because the foreign employee adds diversity to the crew doesn't mean he shouldn't be axed if and when he messes up at work.

[littlecoyotecoin]

(1) It isn't so much as falling victim to groupthink as it is to defend a viewpoint which you couldn't defend yourself.
(2) if you're arguing based on frequency of articles published, you win, but the battleground was substance and quality. I didn't put them with other spurs sites, I said it was a personal preference of other writers and blogs. Not just the Ayres article, but their writing in general. When you see Zach Lowe come up with a profile or dissect plays with surgical precision, you'd actually enjoy reading articles. But I guess I'm just not as open-minded as you are, not like I nitpick on other people's arguments just for the sake of nitpicking and playing devil's advocate while wallowing in gray areas.
(3) Keeping a job =/= reading a blog. Could've used a better metaphor there amigo. But hey, if your boss can find better, I don't see why you shouldn't be let go once your contract is up. Just because the foreign employee adds diversity to the crew doesn't mean he shouldn't be axed if and when he messes up at work.

Maybe I could have defended Ayers better, but I have no intention, nor desire, to do that. When someone else does it, I'll entertain the idea. But, defending the Nando trade has been work enough. :) We disagree because we are talking about different things, which often happens. I am just talking about Spurs material. There's not a lot, so what I have, I appreciate, even if it's not as good as non-Spurs stuff, and even not as good as some other Spurs stuff.

Actually, regarding the keeping a job comment, I was specifically referring to us being the employers and Project Spurs being the employee. I was being a little tongue in cheek. I'm not sure what you meant by foreign employee being axed, but I was just making a point that there is ALWAYS something better. For the record, I hope Ayers is replaced with something better, Project Spurs keeps on chugging, and I don't get fired.

"...not like I nitpick on other people's arguments just for the sake of nitpicking and playing devil's advocate while wallowing in gray areas."

You'll have to elaborate lest I misconstrue.

[Obstructed_View]

Off the court, I think is where he is not trying as much. I think that he plays too many pickup games instead of working to become a professional. He got done with Drew League, and flew out to Rucker park from L.A. the next day to play more pick up games. I guess that's better than nothing, to stay in shape, but I wonder if he becomes a better PRO by spending more time with a shooting coach over the summer, for example, instead of flying around the country to hang out with rappers and take a bunch of selfies, and pictures of his shoes. I don't know if that is too harsh, or I'm too old, but if I were so close to being cut, maybe I choose my extra-curricular summer events differently. If he can't shoot and play defense, he is pretty useless to us, or anyone else. Is defense emphasized in Drew League? Hell no. It's like the NBA all-star game. Rucker park? No. And, we've seen what wonders that working with a shooting coach over time can do. There is evidence of weight training, and personal trainer/basketball trainer (he trains with Kevin Durant this summer, same trainer, train together at times Daye and Durant, as they've got photos together from workouts).

Excellent point. I'm sure Tim Duncan is at the practice facility right now. If Daye really wanted to stick with the Spurs that's where he'd be. End of story.

[Kindergarten Cop]

494592993613996033

[Seventyniner]

494592993613996033

Melvin Ely was still in the league? I remember watching him play for Fresno State what seems like a lifetime ago.

[Kindergarten Cop]

Melvin Ely was still in the league? I remember watching him play for Fresno State what seems like a lifetime ago.

He spent some time in the D-League before being signed by the Pelicans last year in April. He'll likely find his way back to the D-League now after being waived.

[Chinook]

How the hell did Ely make it to DC? He went from NO to Cle to Cha to Was in less than three weeks? Talk about a road trip.

[Mel_13]

Excellent point. I'm sure Tim Duncan is at the practice facility right now. If Daye really wanted to stick with the Spurs that's where he'd be. End of story.

494521426808823809

[spurraider21]

494521426808823809
:cry :worthy:

[littlecoyotecoin]

:cry :worthy:

Can someone reTweet that to Austin Daye.

[SpursFan86]

496408027205885952

Damn. I'll be a little upset if Cleveland gets Marion for the league minimum (which is what it'd have to be if he went there IIRC). I'd love to have him in SA for that price.

[BatManu20]

494521426808823809

GOAT.

[Ice009]

Are the Spurs interested in signing anyone to improve the team? If Marion takes a minimum offer in Cleveland, then I have no idea what the Spurs are doing. They still need a backup SF. Maybe Chip is put off by his shot as much as I am?

How much money do the Cavs have left?

[cd021]

cd021, I can't see the Cavs making that first trade unless Dieng is included and the second one, I can't see them making even if Dieng is included.

I don't think Love is quite as good as his production suggests either and I agree that a truly great should should be able to drag just about any team into the playoffs, at least once, even in the West. But at the same time, he has not had a good supporting cast. None of Pekovic, Martin or Rubio are stars and beyond them, they haven't had anything resembling an adequate bench.

I'm not saying Thompson isn't valuable, but again, for Love it's a no brainer to give him up.

If the Timberwolves really are willing to take this until the trade deadline (which looks increasingly unlikely), as I said, if I were the Cavs, I'd wait. But ultimately, if Wiggins has to be included, so be it. James' prime is dwindling, their current roster doesn't time well with it and their front line isn't nearly good enough.

Sounds like we were both wrong about the specs. It seems that Thad Young and Wiggins to Minny, Bennett to the 76ers and Love to Cleveland.

I heard that Brewer maybe involved in the deal as well. Also Cleveland may move 2 of their 3 draft picks (probably both to Minny or one to Phily and another to Minny)

Very good return for Minny if they can nab Wiggins, Young and up to 2 first rounders.

Rubio-Martin-Wiggins/Budinger-Young-Pekovic

Not a playoff team but they are good enough to be competitive while developing young talent (Wiggins, Mohammed, Dieng, LaVine)

maybe they could even ship Martin out for a first rounder. (Minny be much more likely to keep their pick that Phoenix conditionally owns the picks if it falls in the range of 13-30 next season or the year after)

I think something like Prigioni, Shumpert and a first round pick from the Knicks (who are shopping Prigioni and have attempted to move Shumpert during the trade deadline) would be a good move.

for Kevin Martin (the Wolves would save $ 15.1 million over the next two seasons) and pick up a first round pick probably in the teens (I'd peg the Knicks them to be about 15th in league standings this year).

[TD 21]

Sounds like we were both wrong about the specs. It seems that Thad Young and Wiggins to Minny, Bennett to the 76ers and Love to Cleveland.

I heard that Brewer maybe involved in the deal as well. Also Cleveland may move 2 of their 3 draft picks (probably both to Minny or one to Phily and another to Minny)

Very good return for Minny if they can nab Wiggins, Young and up to 2 first rounders.

Rubio-Martin-Wiggins/Budinger-Young-Pekovic

Not a playoff team but they are good enough to be competitive while developing young talent (Wiggins, Mohammed, Dieng, LaVine)

maybe they could even ship Martin out for a first rounder. (Minny be much more likely to keep their pick that Phoenix conditionally owns the picks if it falls in the range of 13-30 next season or the year after)

I think something like Prigioni, Shumpert and a first round pick from the Knicks (who are shopping Prigioni and have attempted to move Shumpert during the trade deadline) would be a good move.

for Kevin Martin (the Wolves would save $ 15.1 million over the next two seasons) and pick up a first round pick probably in the teens (I'd peg the Knicks them to be about 15th in league standings this year).

If, as it now appears likely, the Timberwolves come out of this with Wiggins and Young, this will go down as one of the best returns ever for a player of Love's caliber.

If the Cavs come out of this with Dieng and the 76ers can get a 1st with Bennett, this will be a good trade for all three teams involved, which is rare.

Martin is an unwanted contract, so there's no chance they could fetch a 1st for him at this point and no chance of the Knicks giving up Shumpert (who Jackson supposedly likes and who's the only decent wing defender they have) and a 1st for him.

[BatManu20]

496769888669548545

[Seventyniner]

496769888669548545

Could Marion actually start there? Crazy to think of the implications of the George injury.

[elemento]

Could Marion actually start there? Crazy to think of the implications of the George injury.

Considering what they have to fill the SF hole, yeah easily.

[FireMicoHalili]

Hoping Thaddeus Young gets re-routed elsewhere. He's leaving a team of cellar-dwellers for another bunch of cellar-dwellers.

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Free agent forward Shawn Marion is leaning strongly toward signing with Cleveland over Indiana, league sources told Yahoo Sports.

[RD2191]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Free agent forward Shawn Marion is leaning strongly toward signing with Cleveland over Indiana, league sources told Yahoo Sports.


:lolNo shit.

[anakha]

I thought Marion said he wanted to start.

[FireMicoHalili]

As daldridgetnt (https://twitter.com/daldridgetnt) reports, Pacers applying for Disabled Players Exception of $5.3M for George injury. Indy could offer Marion more than Cavs. - Woj

Options left at SF:
Jordan Hamilton
Francisco Garcia
Chris Douglas-Roberts
Ronnie Brewer
Earl Clark
Antawn Jamison
Chris Singleton
Damion James
James Southerland
Royce White
Ryan Gomes
Dahntay Jhonez
Shard the Loser

[Seventyniner]

I thought Marion said he wanted to start.

If he signs with Cleveland, at least it proves that he only cares about winning. Isn't that what we supposedly want from pro athletes?

[Aremid]

We could have really used Marion. Now we have no one left to play backup sf

[exstatic]

Are the Spurs interested in signing anyone to improve the team? If Marion takes a minimum offer in Cleveland, then I have no idea what the Spurs are doing. They still need a backup SF. Maybe Chip is put off by his shot as much as I am?

How much money do the Cavs have left?

I am stunned at how many people don't realize this:

The Spurs are getting the band back together, intact.

I realized it when they didn't cut that excrescence Daye when they had the chance. The roster will be the 14 guys on permanent contracts last year at the end, plus KA.

[Ice009]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with adding 1 decent free agent to the team. Either a backup SF or backup PF/SF would really help the Spurs.

I don't see why they need to keep Ayres. They can easily cut him to add someone better to the team that will help more on the court.

And don't go saying people don't realize what the Spurs are doing. You think people around here a fucking retarded? We know what they're doing, but we still want an upgrade or two.

I disagreed in the 2007 off season with them doing nothing and then the Lakers and Celtics pulled off huge trades that left the Spurs at a disadvantage. The Spurs didn't bother adding any depth, so when Manu was hurt in the playoffs, it made is easier for the Lakers to be able to beat them. Plus, if they had added someone decent, they may have ended up with a higher seed and not had to play game 1 on the road in LA where they blew that huge lead that could have changed the series.

This current team has a lot more depth, I'll acknowledge that, but they still could use someone at backup SF/PF. Someone that actually plays that position.

So how much is Cleveland offering Marion? Is it only the minimum?

[FireMicoHalili]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with adding 1 decent free agent to the team. Either a backup SF or backup PF/SF would really help the Spurs.

I don't see why they need to keep Ayres. They can easily cut him to add someone better to the team that will help more on the court.

And don't go saying people don't realize what the Spurs are doing. You think people around here are fucking retarded? We know what they're doing, but we still want an upgrade or two.

I disagreed in the 2007 off season with them doing nothing and then the Lakers and Celtics pulled off huge trades that left the Spurs at a disadvantage. The Spurs didn't bother adding any depth, so when Manu was hurt in the playoffs, it made is easier for the Lakers to be able to beat them. Plus, if they had added someone decent, they may have ended up with a higher seed and not had to play game 1 on the road in LA where they blew that huge lead that could have changed the series.

This current team has a lot more depth, I'll acknowledge that, but they still could use someone at backup SF/PF. Someone that actually plays that position.

So how much is Cleveland offering Marion? Is it only the minimum?
FIFY. Have to put some stuff in bold so other retards like us can understand.

[exstatic]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with adding 1 decent free agent to the team. Either a backup SF or backup PF/SF would really help the Spurs.

I don't see why they need to keep Ayres. They can easily cut him to add someone better to the team that will help more on the court.

And don't go saying people don't realize what the Spurs are doing. You think people around here a fucking retarded? We know what they're doing, but we still want an upgrade or two.

I disagreed in the 2007 off season with them doing nothing and then the Lakers and Celtics pulled off huge trades that left the Spurs at a disadvantage. The Spurs didn't bother adding any depth, so when Manu was hurt in the playoffs, it made is easier for the Lakers to be able to beat them. Plus, if they had added someone decent, they may have ended up with a higher seed and not had to play game 1 on the road in LA where they blew that huge lead that could have changed the series.

This current team has a lot more depth, I'll acknowledge that, but they still could use someone at backup SF/PF. Someone that actually plays that position.

So how much is Cleveland offering Marion? Is it only the minimum?

Power to ya, brotha. Keep banging your head on that wall if that's what makes you happy in the off season.

There were two teams that were competitive with us last year. Miami imploded, and OKC lost their best perimeter defender, and drafted second round talent at #29 with the expressed purpose of signing him to a d-league contract. THAT would be a hard team to fucking follow, constantly dumping talent to stay under the tax.

[Malik Hairston]

I wouldn't mind Marion for the minimum(if he accepted a reduced role, which he wouldn't), but he was actually awful last year, tbh..he's just an average defender nowadays, and a below average offensive player..

NBA fans and media are always enmored by names, rather than actual production(see: Danny Granger, Caron Butler last season)..

[slick'81]

Looks like marion is headed to the cavs

[Ice009]

I wouldn't mind Marion for the minimum(if he accepted a reduced role, which he wouldn't), but he was actually awful last year, tbh..he's just an average defender nowadays, and a below average offensive player..

NBA fans and media are always enmored by names, rather than actual production(see: Danny Granger, Caron Butler last season)..

Don't really care that much about Marion. I thought he might have been alright as a backup. Personally, I would have maybe offered him about half the MLE for one season. If the Spurs were high on his defense, then maybe the full MLE for one season, but if he's dropped off like you say, then I wouldn't have even offered him the full MLE.

Did you have any suggestions on anyone that the Spurs could have looked at as a backup SF/PF or backup PF type of player that they could have signed before players went to other teams?

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

I am becoming increasingly frustrated that we haven't signed Baynes yet and haven't even looked at Okafor. The guy is a straight up beast - despite the slight decline. I know injuries are risky to gamble on, but I think this is a low risk, high reward scenario.

Plus this seems like a player that RC would lick his chops over.

[Ice009]

I am becoming increasingly frustrated that we haven't signed Baynes yet and haven't even looked at Okafor. The guy is a straight up beast - despite the slight decline. I know injuries are risky to gamble on, but I think this is a low risk, high reward scenario.

Plus this seems like a player that RC would lick his chops over.

I'd be very interested in Okafor if he's completely healthy. I seem to recall him being a very good defender? How is/was he on offense?

[cd021]

If, as it now appears likely, the Timberwolves come out of this with Wiggins and Young, this will go down as one of the best returns ever for a player of Love's caliber.

If the Cavs come out of this with Dieng and the 76ers can get a 1st with Bennett, this will be a good trade for all three teams involved, which is rare.
Martin is an unwanted contract, so there's no chance they could fetch a 1st for him at this point and no chance of the Knicks giving up Shumpert (who Jackson supposedly likes and who's the only decent wing defender they have) and a 1st for him.

I disagree on that point. Its not like his contract is an albatross. Its $21 million over the next 3 seasons. Of the 29 players that averaged 19 ppg he had the 3rd cheapest salary (Thomas & Lilard). He is cheap & productive while only 30 years old. With the continuing rise of the salary cap (it could jump to $67 million after next season) his contract will look like more and more of a value.

To Minny, he was brought in to add a scoring punch and to appease Love who wanted to make the postseason. Now that Love is being moved, he is nothing more than a stop gap until they find a younger and cheaper replacement (that maybe Wiggins if they see him as a SG). Moving a veteran for a 1st round pick and clearing the books would be ideal (like how PHX got 1st rounders for Scola and Gortat)

If the Knicks are serious about making the playoffs (especially with the East being the way it is) acquiring Martin would be a great get because of his scoring efficiency (career average of 18 ppg and only 12.5 FGA)

The Knicks could take Brewer off Minnys hands to replace Shumpert. Jackson may like Shumpert but he isn't very productive, a poor shooter and a overrated defender.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lqfaww2

Knicks Get
Corey Brewer
Kevin Martin

Minnesota Gets:
Andrea Bargnani (1 year, expiring $11.5 million deal)
Iman Shumpert
1st round pick

Caulderon-Martin-Anthony-Stoudimire-Dalembert with a bench of Prigoni-Smith/Hardaway Jr.-Brewer/Early-Smith

or a bigger trade of:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mqqhp7f


Knicks Get
Corey Brewer
Kevin Martin
J.J Barea

Minnesota Gets:
Andrea Bargnani (1 year, expiring $11.5 million deal)
Iman Shumpert
Pablo Prigioni
1st round pick

Minnesota would clear the books of $19.2 million over the 15-16 and 16-17 season. The Wolves probably aren't going to want long term deals after dealing Love unless its to Pekovic, Rubio and Wiggins and maybe Thad Young. They'd move both of their non essential personnel in one move. They have been exploring the possibility of getting rid of all 3 players and would allow them to take a step back next year and potentially improve their draft position.

I could also see OKC potentially looking to reacquire Martin (especially if Jackson continues to start alongside Westbrook and Durant)

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kqozwa8

the could ship out Perkins (expiring deal) and a 1st round pick. I would think OKC would be more willing to due so; in addition to ridding themselves of Perkins they also have 5 first round picks currently on rookie scale deals on roster with Huestis being the 6th playing the D-League and probably coming on after next season)

http://www.sportsworldreport.com/articles/32680/20140805/timberwolves-trade-rumors-kevin-martin-jj-barea-shabazz-muhammad-alexey-shved-corey-brewer-traded-after-kevin-love.htm

all of the above could be a moot point if Martin is indeed included in the deal (probably to Cleveland if it is still only a 3 team deal)

[cd021]

I'd be very interested in Okafor if he's completely healthy. I seem to recall him being a very good defender? How is/was he on offense?

he's average but career numbers of 10 ppg and 51% isn't bad production. I've heard that Cleveland is interested in him though.

[BatManu20]

Yea kind of disappointed we couldn't add a single player to help this team.. not surprised though. And KA doesn't count. He's a 19 y/o kid who won't play much, if at all in the playoffs.

But can't complain too much since we re-signed all our guys and are bringing back the gang. It basically all hinges on our health now, which is a big question mark this season.

[ElNono]

I don't see why they need to keep Ayres. They can easily cut him to add someone better to the team that will help more on the court.

I blow a gasket on the regular watching Ayres play, BUT, he's on the team as a minute burner/filler. He doesn't pout about the role, and all in all, he's on a decent deal ($1.8m, even Corey Joseph will make more money than him this season). He already fits in the locker room and has some "corporate knowledge". The Spurs won't buy out that contract to spend more money signing somebody else for such a secondary role, I don't think.

He's also an expiring contract now, so he can be some salary to be used for a mid-season trade if the Spurs need to touch up the roster a bit.

[Richie]

Okafor for the minimum would be a great signing, only problem is the 15 man roster limit

[ElNono]

I don't mind the Spurs waiting out until February, surveying what the league looks like, and what the Spurs themselves look like before looking to perhaps make a trade.

The Spurs actually have some contracts that add up nicely (Joseph + Ayres + Daye = $5m... Beli another $2.8m), some of them expiring. They would make nice trade bait for mid-season dealings.

[littlecoyotecoin]

I blow a gasket on the regular watching Ayres play, BUT, he's on the team as a minute burner/filler. He doesn't pout about the role, and all in all, he's on a decent deal ($1.8m, even Corey Joseph will make more money than him this season). He already fits in the locker room and has some "corporate knowledge". The Spurs won't buy out that contract to spend more money signing somebody else for such a secondary role, I don't think.

He's also an expiring contract now, so he can be some salary to be used for a mid-season trade if the Spurs need to touch up the roster a bit.

NoNo w/ the goods on why Ayres stays, no matter what peanut gallery wants.

[Mr. Body]

Yea kind of disappointed we couldn't add a single player to help this team.. not surprised though. And KA doesn't count. He's a 19 y/o kid who won't play much, if at all in the playoffs.

But can't complain too much since we re-signed all our guys and are bringing back the gang. It basically all hinges on our health now, which is a big question mark this season.

The roster is stacked, to be honest. It's hard to get established vets onto a team where there is no playing time, much less younger players still trying to make an impact in this league.

[TD 21]

I disagree on that point. Its not like his contract is an albatross. Its $21 million over the next 3 seasons. Of the 29 players that averaged 19 ppg he had the 3rd cheapest salary (Thomas & Lilard). He is cheap & productive while only 30 years old. With the continuing rise of the salary cap (it could jump to $67 million after next season) his contract will look like more and more of a value.

To Minny, he was brought in to add a scoring punch and to appease Love who wanted to make the postseason. Now that Love is being moved, he is nothing more than a stop gap until they find a younger and cheaper replacement (that maybe Wiggins if they see him as a SG). Moving a veteran for a 1st round pick and clearing the books would be ideal (like how PHX got 1st rounders for Scola and Gortat)

If the Knicks are serious about making the playoffs (especially with the East being the way it is) acquiring Martin would be a great get because of his scoring efficiency (career average of 18 ppg and only 12.5 FGA)

The Knicks could take Brewer off Minnys hands to replace Shumpert. Jackson may like Shumpert but he isn't very productive, a poor shooter and a overrated defender.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lqfaww2

Knicks Get
Corey Brewer
Kevin Martin

Minnesota Gets:
Andrea Bargnani (1 year, expiring $11.5 million deal)
Iman Shumpert
1st round pick

Caulderon-Martin-Anthony-Stoudimire-Dalembert with a bench of Prigoni-Smith/Hardaway Jr.-Brewer/Early-Smith

or a bigger trade of:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mqqhp7f


Knicks Get
Corey Brewer
Kevin Martin
J.J Barea

Minnesota Gets:
Andrea Bargnani (1 year, expiring $11.5 million deal)
Iman Shumpert
Pablo Prigioni
1st round pick

Minnesota would clear the books of $19.2 million over the 15-16 and 16-17 season. The Wolves probably aren't going to want long term deals after dealing Love unless its to Pekovic, Rubio and Wiggins and maybe Thad Young. They'd move both of their non essential personnel in one move. They have been exploring the possibility of getting rid of all 3 players and would allow them to take a step back next year and potentially improve their draft position.

I could also see OKC potentially looking to reacquire Martin (especially if Jackson continues to start alongside Westbrook and Durant)

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kqozwa8

the could ship out Perkins (expiring deal) and a 1st round pick. I would think OKC would be more willing to due so; in addition to ridding themselves of Perkins they also have 5 first round picks currently on rookie scale deals on roster with Huestis being the 6th playing the D-League and probably coming on after next season)

http://www.sportsworldreport.com/articles/32680/20140805/timberwolves-trade-rumors-kevin-martin-jj-barea-shabazz-muhammad-alexey-shved-corey-brewer-traded-after-kevin-love.htm

all of the above could be a moot point if Martin is indeed included in the deal (probably to Cleveland if it is still only a 3 team deal)

I agree that Martin's contract is not an albatross, especially with the cap going up. But despite what we think, it's been perceived as such since almost the moment the deal was reported. Plus the value of draft picks and particularly 1sts has never been higher.

Offense isn't the issue with the Knicks (11th last season) though; defense is (24th last season). Between Anthony, Smith and Hardaway, they don't lack for firepower on the wings.

This would also kill their flexibility going forward and ruin whatever minute chance they have at adding a significant player next off season, such as Gasol.

The Thunder just signed Morrow to be their third guard, whether he ends up starting or not. Given that and the fact that Jackson is a year away from a contract in that neighborhood, there's no chance they'd be interested in Martin.

[FireMicoHalili]

Okafor seems like one of those guys fans would like on their team before the season starts, and then end up breathing a sigh of relief once the injuries start pouring in e.g. Oden, Bynum

[Dex]

Okafor has never lived up to his potential. There is a reason he can't stick with any team.

Pass.

[cd021]

I agree that Martin's contract is not an albatross, especially with the cap going up. But despite what we think, it's been perceived as such since almost the moment the deal was reported. Plus the value of draft picks and particularly 1sts has never been higher.

Offense isn't the issue with the Knicks (11th last season) though; defense is (24th last season). Between Anthony, Smith and Hardaway, they don't lack for firepower on the wings.

This would also kill their flexibility going forward and ruin whatever minute chance they have at adding a significant player next off season, such as Gasol.

The Thunder just signed Morrow to be their third guard, whether he ends up starting or not. Given that and the fact that Jackson is a year away from a contract in that neighborhood, there's no chance they'd be interested in Martin.

Good points. I didn't realize that the knicks could have about $24 million in cap space. I would go after Jordan and Milsap though (more realistic imo)they would have to try and unload Smith to get both. They would probably have to overpay for Jordan (4yrs /$60 would push LAC into the luxury tax to retain him and would need to sign to other vets to fill out the roster.



I forgot that Jackson was up for an extension. They would be vulnerable to a poison pill deal if they took on K Mart contract. Great that our top 4 players are making only about $34 million and not have to worry about the luxury tax.

[TD 21]

Good points. I didn't realize that the knicks could have about $24 million in cap space. I would go after Jordan and Milsap though (more realistic imo)they would have to try and unload Smith to get both. They would probably have to overpay for Jordan (4yrs /$60 would push LAC into the luxury tax to retain him and would need to sign to other vets to fill out the roster.



I forgot that Jackson was up for an extension. They would be vulnerable to a poison pill deal if they took on K Mart contract. Great that our top 4 players are making only about $34 million and not have to worry about the luxury tax.

It's rare to come across a person on this board who doesn't throw a hissy fit, pretend you're trying to be argumentative or ignore you, when you either disagree with them and/or enlighten them.

:toast

[xmas1997]

It's rare to come across a person on this board who doesn't throw a hissy fit, pretend you're trying to be argumentative or ignore you, when you either disagree with them and/or enlighten them.

:toast

To be fair, there are many of us on here who have open minds and arewilling to accede that someone else may have more up to date information than we do.
Granted, closed minded, opinionated, and childish immature individuals dominate this forum, along with the ignorant trolls as well, still there are plenty of us on here who gain, share, and discuss information.
Thank goodness for that.

[ace3g]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)ESPN sources say Shawn Marion has committed this weekend to sign with the Cavaliers


Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Cavs can only offer minimum deal to Shawn Marion but sources say chance to play with LeBron and play for a title trumped all other offers

[Shastafarian]

Yeah good luck with that Shawn.

[Ice009]

You guys think the Spurs were interested in him at all?

[xmas1997]

You guys think the Spurs were interested in him at all?

Not really.

[exstatic]

Okafor has never lived up to his potential. There is a reason he can't stick with any team.

Pass.

He played for the Charlotte/ NO Hornets for 8 years.

The word is that he isn't completely healed/healthy, and will miss a couple of months this season. He's 31, and his best basketball is behind him, and on his worst playing day, he's better than Baynes or Ayres will ever be. As a cheap, late season pickup, he'd be a steal if Baynes decides to not play here next year.

[Chinook]

He played for the Charlotte/ NO Hornets for 8 years.

He never played for the Charlotte Hornets. He got drafted by the Bobcats in 2004 and traded to New Orleans for Tyson Chandler in 2009. Four teams in 10 years.

[DPG21920]

I am stunned no one has made a play for Blatche. He has behaved pretty well since his move to BKY and more importantly, played well.

I really wouldn't mind nabbing him for part of the MLE.

[Chinook]

I am stunned no one has made a play for Blatche. He has behaved pretty well since his move to BKY and more importantly, played well.

I really wouldn't mind nabbing him for part of the MLE.

I'd be fine with using the whole thing on him. He's still pretty young, and he'd be a fine compliment to either Splitter or Diaw.

[exstatic]

He never played for the Charlotte Hornets. He got drafted by the Bobcats in 2004 and traded to New Orleans for Tyson Chandler in 2009. Four teams in 10 years.

My bad. Too many Charlotte NBA incarnations. :lol

To be fair, it was really just 3 in 9. His last 'team' only wanted him as an expiring contract flip. He never played one minute for PHO, nor did they ever intend for him to. I'm not sure he ever even moved there.

If he's never lived up to expectations and moved around a lot, well, so what? So did Diaw. I'm not talking throwing big money at him, just signing him if maybe Baynes falls through.

[xmas1997]

I'd be fine with using the whole thing on him. He's still pretty young, and he'd be a fine compliment to either Splitter or Diaw.

I think Blatche would be an upgrade over what we have at the end of the bench, and if he developed some maturity while here, more power to the Spurs.

[exstatic]

I think Blatche would be an upgrade over what we have at the end of the bench, and if he developed some maturity while here, more power to the Spurs.

I think he wanted a bigger role than that, which is why he bolted the Nets.

[Chinook]

My bad. Too many Charlotte NBA incarnations. :lol

To be fair, it was really just 3 in 9. His last 'team' only wanted him as an expiring contract flip. He never played one minute for PHO, nor did they ever intend for him to. I'm not sure he ever even moved there.

If he's never lived up to expectations and moved around a lot, well, so what? So did Diaw. I'm not talking throwing big money at him, just signing him if maybe Baynes falls through.

Agree. I'd like it a lot better than the potential Oden signing last year. Also, nothing wrong with being on lot of teams. Just means you have a highly valued skill-set.

[xmas1997]

I think he wanted a bigger role than that, which is why he bolted the Nets.

I'm pretty sure he would get one here, but he would have to show it on the court first.
Has Blatche even been signed yet?

[exstatic]

I'm pretty sure he would get one here, but he would have to show it on the court first.
Has Blatche even been signed yet?

Blatche has talent, but almost no BBIQ. I can't even see the Spurs signing him, let alone giving him a role other than bench player.

[ABC]

Blatche is playing for the Philippines in the World Cup. Wasn't sure if people knew.

[cjw]

He played for the Charlotte/ NO Hornets for 8 years.

The word is that he isn't completely healed/healthy, and will miss a couple of months this season. He's 31, and his best basketball is behind him, and on his worst playing day, he's better than Baynes or Ayres will ever be. As a cheap, late season pickup, he'd be a steal if Baynes decides to not play here next year.

That could be why the Spurs are saving up the MLE for all we know. Given how they like to preserve minutes, they probably don't want to have two guys (him and Patty) on the shelf to start the season - injuries are inevitable and the last thing Pop wants is to be down to 10-11 healthy guys and have to play the Big 3 even more minutes.

When he does get healthy, Spurs would have a serious leg up on other teams signing him by preserving the MLE.

[xmas1997]

Blatche has talent, but almost no BBIQ. I can't even see the Spurs signing him, let alone giving him a role other than bench player.

Doesn't that also describe Ayers, but with less talent?

[Kurik]

Doesn't that also describe Ayers, but with less talent?

I wouldn't say Ayres has no BBIQ, he lacks coordination more than anything else.

[exstatic]

I wouldn't say Ayres has no BBIQ, he lacks coordination more than anything else.

He's actually co-ordinated. He just has bad hands. I'm also not sure he's in any plans past this year.

[Ice009]

That could be why the Spurs are saving up the MLE for all we know. Given how they like to preserve minutes, they probably don't want to have two guys (him and Patty) on the shelf to start the season - injuries are inevitable and the last thing Pop wants is to be down to 10-11 healthy guys and have to play the Big 3 even more minutes.

When he does get healthy, Spurs would have a serious leg up on other teams signing him by preserving the MLE.

Maybe the Spurs have missed out on some of those mid-season released/bought out players because other teams have had more money. They also could possibly not really be interested in the rest of the players that are left for the MLE, so maybe they are going to pocket it and use it if it anyone they like is bought out. Maybe this time they want the advantage of having more money to spend than other teams.

[Chinook]

They could even use the MLE on an international player whose season ends before the March cutoff. Someone like Baynes, but better and able to command a larger contract. I don't know of any candidates, but I'm sure there are some. Players come to the NBA from overseas on MLE-like deals every season. If the Spurs can get one a few months early (and keep their MLE for next season), it sounds like a no-brainer.

[Seventyniner]

They could even use the MLE on an international player whose season ends before the March cutoff. Someone like Baynes, but better and able to command a larger contract. I don't know of any candidates, but I'm sure there are some. Players come to the NBA from overseas on MLE-like deals every season. If the Spurs can get one a few months early (and keep their MLE for next season), it sounds like a no-brainer.

Like Teletovic?


About Blatche, he seems like the player many on ST wanted Blair to be.

[Chinook]

Like Teletovic?


About Blatche, he seems like the player many on ST wanted Blair to be.

But taller. Blatche can score from anywhere, and he is actually a really good passer, despite the reputation of being a black hole.

Teletovic is one of the players I was thinking about. The Rockets and Pacers also brought some over this season. It's also possible that the Spurs could end up trading for the rights to some international player, like they did with Lorbek, and then use the MLE to get them early. The Bulls and Nets gave mid-level deals to a couple of their overseas players this off-season as well.

[Seventyniner]

But taller.

Ding ding ding!

[xmas1997]

If they do get someone else, I hope it happens before training camp so that that player gets a chance to play during the season.

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Yahoo Sports: Minnesota set to acquire Philadelphia's Thaddeus Young. yhoo.it/1ohyVBa (http://t.co/FMolO0layQ)

[Baam]

They could even use the MLE on an international player whose season ends before the March cutoff. Someone like Baynes, but better and able to command a larger contract. I don't know of any candidates, but I'm sure there are some. Players come to the NBA from overseas on MLE-like deals every season. If the Spurs can get one a few months early (and keep their MLE for next season), it sounds like a no-brainer.

No that doesn't exist to my knowledge...

[ace3g]

Brian Windhorst @WindhorstESPN
(https://twitter.com/WindhorstESPN)Cavs, Wolves, 76ers have completed Kevin Love trade officially. As part of deal Wolves will receive 6.3M trade exception.


Brian Windhorst @WindhorstESPN
(https://twitter.com/WindhorstESPN)In summary: Kevin Love to Cavs, Wiggins, Bennett, Young to Wolves; Barea, Shved, Heat 2015 1st to Philly.

[cd021]

J.J Barea rumored to be brought out if he can't be moved by Minnesota

http://live.startribune.com/Event/Timberwolves_Live_Chat_with_Jerry_Zgoda_at_noon_Mo nday?Page=1

if Baynes doesn't occupy the 15 roster spot.

he would be a nice guard for depth at PG

[Cloud786]

504718391111065600

[Chinook]

Ew.

[moisaenz]

504718391111065600

Mills insurance??

[look_at_g_shred]

Ew.
def won't make it

[jesterbobman]

505485741934534656

505486651595161600