Official 2014 Free Agency Thread

[toki9]

486736670599806976

Looks like I was right. Utah shouldn't match.

4-year, $63M sounds rich...crazy market

[Ron Swanson]

Hayward's getting PAID.

[TheGoldStandard]

A little over 15 mil a year, that's about right for his numbers in this NBA climate. All these deals are litmus tests for what other teams are going to throw at Leonard when he's a FA. Gotta lock him up to an extension

[BatManu20]

If Utah doesn't match, the Hornets actually have a solid young roster. They had a solid draft too, picking up Noah Vonleh and PJ Hairston. In a terrible Eastern conference, they should be a top 5 seed next year imo.

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

If Utah doesn't match, the Hornets actually have a solid young roster. They had a solid draft too, picking up Noah Vonleh and PJ Hairston. In a terrible Eastern conference, they should be a top 5 seed next year imo.
Yeah they're actually really young. I don't know if many of their young guys have that high of an upside though. MKG's been mediocre and Zeller was pretty average for a rookie. At least Kemba is good.

[TheGoldStandard]

Yeah they're actually really young. I don't know if many of their young guys have that high of an upside though. MKG's been mediocre and Zeller was pretty average for a rookie. At least Kemba is good.

Kemba's assists have steadily gone up and his shooting has improved. They have Jefferson to anchor the front court and some guys around him. Solid team for the East.

[Chinook]

Yeah they're actually really young. I don't know if many of their young guys have that high of an upside though. MKG's been mediocre and Zeller was pretty average for a rookie. At least Kemba is good.

From what I've read, MKG's shooting motion has looked a lot better this off-season. If he can shoot better in games, his ceiling is actually fairly high.

Despite what Hornets fans believe, however, they need a PG. That's why them dumping Hayward (the center) was so stupid.

[Russo21]

Interesting... nobody is talking about acquiring .... Andre Blatche Noticed he Is free to. Tall, athletic, averaged about 11 and 6 last year. Would be a nice bench big man. Isn't he a bit of a dickhead though? Not Spurs material? Think I've heard that somewhere.

[TheGoldStandard]

From what I've read, MKG's shooting motion has looked a lot better this off-season. If he can shoot better in games, his ceiling is actually fairly high.

Despite what Hornets fans believe, however, they need a PG. That's why them dumping Hayward (the center) was so stupid.

How much was he making that they could have dumped him for a vet PG? They could always inquire about Felton, I bet Dallas would dump him in a second

[Chinook]

How much was he making that they could have dumped him for a vet PG? They could always inquire about Felton, I bet Dallas would dump him in a second

I think he's making $2 Million or so this season. But his contract for 2015-2016 is a fully non-guaranteed $10 Million. They could have used all their cap space this year and then used Haywood (which is the guy's actual name) and some picks to get another near-max player next year.

[SpursFan86]

486744764675420161

[AFBlue]

Hayward for $15M/yr is utterly ridiculous.

[benefactor]

:lol Jazz

[kobyz]

So Bosh is going to Houston, it give them a scary team that put us in rough spot, how RC react to this?

[Mel_13]

So Bosh is going to Houston, it give them a scary team that put us in rough spot, how RC react to this?

Probably the same way he reacted to their acquisitions of Harden and Howard.

[ace3g]

Marc J. SpearsVerified account ‏@SpearsNBAYahoo (https://twitter.com/SpearsNBAYahoo) Sources: With guard logjam, Warriors willing to help their free agent Jordan Crawford with sign-and-trade deal. http://yhoo.it/1mHaLVq (http://t.co/vBcJMEbQlp) #NBA (https://twitter.com/hashtag/NBA?src=hash)

[Ron Swanson]

So Bosh is going to Houston, it give them a scary team that put us in rough spot, how RC react to this?

He's cancelling the 2014-15 season.

[Mal]

486878652546973696

[Mel_13]

486878652546973696

The plot thickens.

[Ron Swanson]

Looks like someone's clearing cap room.

[Mal]

The plot thickens.

Yeah, 8 mil gone, 30th pick is worth giving for it. Cleveland have good core and cap space. Just sayin

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

The plot thickens.

That was exactly the amount Cleveland needed to clear to offer the Max to Lebron. This trade was in place 2 days ago I believe. I guess they waited until it they were certain Lebron was going back to Cleveland.

[Mel_13]

That was exactly the amount Cleveland needed to clear to offer the Max to Lebron. This trade was in place 2 days ago I believe. I guess they waited until it they were certain Lebron was going back to Cleveland.

Yeah. The only other possibility is that they're getting trolled by LeBron.

[toki9]

Yeah. The only other possibility is that they're getting trolled by LeBron.

LeBron can't possibly troll them this hard after the Decision...if he doesn't go back now, after making them clear cap space like this, then he should just never set foot in Cleveland for the rest of his life...

[Obstructed_View]

If the Cavs did this without getting a verbal commitment from Lebron, then they're stupid. After Carlos Boozer, they're probably stupid to accept a verbal commitment at all, but that's another debate.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Yeah. The only other possibility is that they're getting trolled by LeBron.

Either way it plays out, he trolled Miami or trolled Cleveland. Last time he trolled Cleveland, this time, I believe it will be Miami.

[Mel_13]

LeBron can't possibly troll them this hard after the Decision...if he doesn't go back now, after making them clear cap space like this, then he should just never set foot in Cleveland for the rest of his life...

I'm starting to believe he may go back to the Cavs. In a carefully crafted LeBron biography, the homecoming is an essential chapter.

[toki9]

I'm starting to believe he may go back to the Cavs. In a carefully crafted LeBron biography, the homecoming is an essential chapter.

Starting to look that way...wow.

[Mel_13]

Either way it plays out, he trolled Miami or trolled Cleveland. Last time he trolled Cleveland, this time, I believe it will be Miami.

I think you're right. The 5th championship is going to be that much sweeter if it results in the implosion of the Miami 'dynasty'.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

If the Cavs did this without getting a verbal commitment from Lebron, then they're stupid. After Carlos Boozer, they're probably stupid to accept a verbal commitment at all, but that's another debate.

Being that the trade was in place for two days before the Cavs signed off on it, I think he more than likely did.

[toki9]

So if this plays out with LeBron going to the Cavs, then Bosh goes to Houston? Where does Carmelo go, then? And Miami will be left with a bunch of scraps headed by Wade?

[Andthentherewas21]

If Lebron leaves Miami for Cleveland the East is wide open

[Obstructed_View]

If Lebron leaves Miami for Cleveland the East is wide open

Not sure about that. Weak as it is, the east goes where Lebron does.

[toki9]

If Lebron leaves Miami for Cleveland the East is wide open

Indiana should try to re-sign Lance Blanks and just stay pat, then. Still won't be able to beat whoever comes out of West, but at least they'll come out of East.

[Richie]

So Cleveland basically just gave up 3 first rounders to dump Jarrett Jack? (Zeller, Karasev, future first)

What a tragic contract that was to begin with.

[Andthentherewas21]

Not sure about that. Weak as it is, the east goes where Lebron does.

I agree that the Cavs would still be in contention, but Miami has been all but a sure thing for the past 4 years. The roster as it stands has a lot of holes, and unless Kyrie shows more on D, they don't have another 2-way player like Wade/Bosh (prior to last season)

[spursparker9]

Not sure about that. Weak as it is, the east goes where Lebron does.

This

[TheGoldStandard]

Cleveland talking with Allen next. Lol coat tail riding

[ajh18]

I agree that the Cavs would still be in contention, but Miami has been all but a sure thing for the past 4 years. The roster as it stands has a lot of holes, and unless Kyrie shows more on D, they don't have another 2-way player like Wade/Bosh (prior to last season)

I think they'll trade for Love, either with 2-3 first round picks or Wiggins. A core of Love, Irving, and Lebron is probably better than Miami's big three today.

[xmas1997]

I really hope James goes back to Cleveland, but I doubt it happens, he wants to play with Melo and vice versa.
James is a businessman first as we are seeing and a basketball player second.
He can make the heartless decision when necessary and has done so in the past.
If he goes to Cleveland I for one will gain a new respect for him.
If he is using Cleveland for leverage on Riley and to push out Bosh to bring in Melo, then I hope they do nothing but lose year after year.

[Obstructed_View]

I think most teams would be better off telling Lebron that he's welcome on their team, but that he shouldn't be making personnel decisions. Not sure what's worse, the corpse of Ray Allen, or blowing four draft picks and cash for Shabazz Napier.

[Dverde]

I think they'll trade for Love, either with 2-3 first round picks or Wiggins. A core of Love, Irving, and Lebron is probably better than Miami's big three today.

Love is not going there. Cleveland would have to further gut their team to make the numbers works. I doubt Love would sign a long term deal there, after being in Minnesota for so long. Cleveland has no way to absorb the Kevin Martin contract that Minnesota wants to unload with Love. Love is going either to Boston or GSW.

[ducks]

love may want to play with james hello

[TheGoldStandard]

Mike Miller coming off the bench for Cleveland would be interesting, he's dependable and clutch. Cleveland has some youth plus adding vets that can come off the bench and score = a good fit for Lebron.

[cd98]

If Cavs get Lebron, they will need to spend everything they got to get a big. All the bigs on their roster are either injured or projects.

[spursparker9]

486887110176432128

[spursparker9]

486896437457080321


486897953425334272

[xmas1997]

So when all is said and done, and James goes back to the Heat with Melo with him, and in the process jilts Cleveland once again, his agent Rich Paul fades all the heat.
Pathetic.

[spursparker9]

486907431134724096

486908057910145024


486908446818578432

[rjv]

if i'm a cavs fan the only tweet i get excited about right now is the one from wojo. of course. if i'm a cavs fan right now i'm also a basket case...

[Mr. Body]

486908446818578432

Y'know, I've a sense LeBron isn't the best at GMing. Not saying Riley's moves have been good, but LeBron's sense of finding players hasn't been great (wanting Jameson over Stoudamire, wanting Shabazz Napier)...

[UnWantedTheory]

Sam Amico @SamAmicoFSO (https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO)
The Cavs are pursuing free agent shooting guard Mike Miller, sources tell@FOXSportsOH (https://twitter.com/FOXSportsOH).

[LakerHater]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24612775/report-lebron-reached-out-to-veteran-free-agents-for-if-he-bolts-miami
via http://cbssportsapp.com

[CGD]

Somewhere Israel Gutiérrez is seeing his career go down the drain...

[Mel_13]

Somewhere Israel Gutiérrez is seeing his career go down the drain...

And Brian Windhorst is dreading the move back to Cleveland.

[absoloot66]

And Brian Windhorst is dreading the move back to Cleveland.

So true:lol

[tholdren]

Somewhere Israel Gutiérrez is seeing his career go down the drain...

I always though he was JLo's first Husband. He also looks like Freddy Mercury after he died of the Aids.

[Aztecfan03]

486887110176432128

Well i don't know anything about them but at least Cavs got something back.

[spursparker9]

486958217834934273

[heyheymymy]

apparently moving vans outside lebrons miami home. not confirmed in any way at this point

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsH_teHCAAAZ2a2.jpg

[Holden_Caulfield]

apparently moving vans outside lebrons miami home. not confirmed in any way at this point

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsH_teHCAAAZ2a2.jpg
weather looks gloomy in miami

[Vic Petro]

Frank Isola says Melo back to the Knicks...

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/carmelo-return-knicks-win-new-york-article-1.1860680

[spursparker9]

apparently moving vans outside lebrons miami home. not confirmed in any way at this point

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsH_teHCAAAZ2a2.jpg

:lol

miami fans like

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/Nononono.gif

[LakerHater]

486960424890269696

[spursparker9]

486960424890269696

Look like he is heading to a ring-less path.

[Vic Petro]

486960985190584320

[ducks]

Marc SteinVerified account
‏@ESPNSteinLine Hearing Cavs have strong interest in Rockets RFA Chandler Parsons if LeBron elects to stay to Miami. Parsons said to be next-in-line target

[heyheymymy]

http://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/super-page/moving-trucks-outside-of-lebrons-house-in-miami-picking-up-his-cars-weve-officially-reached-defcon-5/https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsICT8QCUAAXxtZ.jpg

[heyheymymy]

Two Exotic Auto Transport Trucks outside of LeBron's home have just left after loading cars.

[Cloud786]

486960424890269696

[spursparker9]

486962629294837760

[heyheymymy]

so how good will 4 #1s be in CLE this season?

[LakerHater]

486962629294837760

[ducks]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine · now

Celts' trade exception ($10.3 mil) big enough to absorb $8.6M expiring contract of Marcus Thornton for right to also snag Zeller and a first

[ducks]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA · 1m

Several days ago -- and maybe it's changed since but... -- 'Melo hadn't even been able to reach LeBron James, sources tell Yahoo.

[spursparker9]

486962629294837760

:lol NY gonna get screwed again. Just like good old times.

[r0drig0lac]

weather looks gloomy in miami

http://i.imgur.com/JQB7k.gif

[Holden_Caulfield]

486962629294837760
i wonder who will get ujiri'd :lol

[SpursFan86]

How do y'all think Melo's decision to stay with NY affects the Pau situation? Probably hurts our already small chances tbh...Pau is probably going to Chicago now.

[LakerHater]

Jeremy Lin, Houston like Soooooooo Jeremy.... :married:

[spursparker9]

weather looks gloomy in miami

http://38.media.tumblr.com/d4ca5f4b8b2dd1f08637d830729ca460/tumblr_n7393kFb7q1qzaoamo1_500.jpg

http://38.media.tumblr.com/8816819d5e2aa0e691db707e5858fe9b/tumblr_n7393kFb7q1qzaoamo2_500.png

[SpursFan86]

486969085213691904

[spursparker9]

486969085213691904

Another Spurs killer. He better not go OKC.

[SpursFan86]

Another Spurs killer. He better not go OKC.

On the bright side, if OKC ends up having to use their MLE on Miller, that means no Pau. I'd rather them get Miller than Pau tbh...

[Chinook]

Provided this James-to-Cleveland thing happens, Miller would take the rest of the cap space, and Allen/Granger would take the room exception.

[spursparker9]

Provided this James-to-Cleveland thing happens, Miller would take the rest of the cap space, and Allen/Granger would take the room exception.

If this happens, Cleveland gonna cakewalk to the Final.

[SpursFan86]

486978019056037888

Not gonna lie, Cleveland will be pretty scary if they have a Kyrie/LeBron/Love core. Especially if they can manage to keep Wiggins.

[SpursFan86]

486977558932508672

[Dverde]

486978019056037888

Not gonna lie, Cleveland will be pretty scary if they have a Kyrie/LeBron/Love core. Especially if they can manage to keep Wiggins.

No way Wiggins is not included. I can't see Minnesota taking Waiters, Anderson Verajo, and some other young talent for Love. They would have to include Kyrie and/or Verajo in any trade to make the money match up.

[DPG21920]

Provided this James-to-Cleveland thing happens, Miller would take the rest of the cap space, and Allen/Granger would take the room exception.

Do they actually have cap space after signing Bron? From what I am reading, after the moves they have made, they have 22M in cap space (counting cap holds and everything). If they sign Lebron to 20M, that only leaves 2M for Miller in your scenario.

[Chinook]

The Cavs would be fools to trade Wiggins. They need an athletic wing defender much more than they need Irving/Love. Those two are just going to be role-players anyway.

[DPG21920]

Wow - people are so high in Wiggins. Maybe he does pan out to be very good (I don't see it, but maybe). If you need defenders, you can trade or sign those guys (Danny Green types). You can't just walk out and grab Kevin Love's.

[Chinook]

Do they actually have cap space after signing Bron? From what I am reading, after the moves they have made, they have 22M in cap space (counting cap holds and everything). If they sign Lebron to 20M, that only leaves 2M for Miller in your scenario.

I haven't looked at the numbers all that carefully. Remember, though, that the roster charges go away as more players are added. The Cavs would get a half-million back after inking Lebron.

[DPG21920]

I haven't looked at the numbers all that carefully. Remember, though, that the roster charges go away as more players are added. The Cavs would get a half-million back after inking Lebron.

Sure - but in looking at that, I think they would still only have about 2M in cap space for a FA (might be a little off though).

[Andthentherewas21]

486978019056037888

Not gonna lie, Cleveland will be pretty scary if they have a Kyrie/LeBron/Love core. Especially if they can manage to keep Wiggins.

If Wiggins isn't included in any trade for Love then the NBA needs to take a look at Flip Sanders bank account

[Chinook]

Wow - people are so high in Wiggins. Maybe he does pan out to be very good (I don't see it, but maybe). If you need defenders, you can trade or sign those guys (Danny Green types). You can't just walk out and grab Kevin Love's.

Who's the Green waiting for someone to sign him? As far as Love goes, you can find stretch-fours relatively easily, too. That's all he'd be if James insists on playing on the ball so much.

[slick'81]

Yeah noway cavs pull that off without givng up something legit

[DPG21920]

Who's the Green waiting for someone to sign him? As far as Love goes, you can find stretch-fours relatively easily, too. That's all he'd be if James insists on playing on the ball so much.

Except finding capable wing defenders as good as a rookie is much easier than finding the best stretch 4 in the NBA. There might not be a Green (there seemingly are more Greens out there though that teams just haven't found or don't place importance on) that is known, but again, you can trade for those guys if you really want one usually.

[SpursFan86]

Yeah, I think Love is being sold a bit short here. He's not "just a stretch 4". He's leagues ahead of someone like Ryan Anderson. He can do more than score; he's an elite rebounder and a great playmaker for someone his size. I get what you're saying about some of his impact being marginalized playing alongside LeBron, but I still think he'd be FAR more important than just a "role player" on the Cavs.

[Mal]

486978019056037888


They wont trade Wiggins. Waiters, fucking Bennett and Thompson could do it.

LeBron will get ring chasers - Allen, Lewis, Birdman or even Haslem.

[Chinook]

Except finding capable wing defenders as good as a rookie is much easier than finding the best stretch 4 in the NBA. There might not be a Green (there seemingly are more Greens out there though that teams just haven't found or don't place importance on) that is known, but again, you can trade for those guys if you really want one usually.

Like who? They have a guy who should develop into exactly who they need next to James. Irving and Love don't really fit unless they change their games a lot. If they do that, they just become overqualified and overpaid like Bosh was with Miami.

James needs solid shooters, strong defenders and an elite anchor next to him. Then he needs a great sixth man off the bench to take pressure off him. He doesn't need a maxed-out PG who's inefficient as hell or a four who jacks up threes and steals boards from his teammates.

[Chinook]

Yeah, I think Love is being sold a bit short here. He's not "just a stretch 4". He's leagues ahead of someone like Ryan Anderson. He can do more than score; he's an elite rebounder and a great playmaker for someone his size. I get what you're saying about some of his impact being marginalized playing alongside LeBron, but I still think he'd be FAR more important than just a "role player" on the Cavs.

Bosh is significantly more talented than Love, and look how that turned out.

[DPG21920]

I'm not disagreeing that they should get a wing defender and that Wiggins may have the most rookie potential there (with other upsides as well), or even that Love will be reduced usage wise compared to what you are used to seeing. I just disagree that under any circumstances that you don't trade Wiggins for Love. Especially when your offense may be good enough to overcome and shortcomings defensively.

[SpursFan86]

486984032660361216

[spursparker9]

486970907395518464

[DPG21920]

Like who? They have a guy who should develop into exactly who they need next to James. Irving and Love don't really fit unless they change their games a lot. If they do that, they just become overqualified and overpaid like Bosh was with Miami.

James needs solid shooters, strong defenders and an elite anchor next to him. Then he needs a great sixth man off the bench to take pressure off him. He doesn't need a maxed-out PG who's inefficient as hell or a four who jacks up threes and steals boards from his teammates.

Why are you acting like Danny Green is the only serviceable wing defender in the world? Whether it's FA (Marion, Aminu, Thabo) or trade (Tony Allen, Delfino, Webster, Garcia) or some no name guy like Danny Green was that people haven't really bought into or given a chance (D-League has several guys who have shown good defensive capabilities), there are options.

Bosh did fine with MIA and played a big role in MIA winning titles. Love as a second option may very well fare better than Bosh too. While Bosh is much better defensively than Love, I struggle to call him an "elite anchor". Even in reduced versions of themselves, Bosh was huge in helping MIA win so I don't know why that matters so much.

[Chinook]

Especially when your offense may be good enough to overcome and shortcomings defensively.

That's pretty much the issue right there. What is the point of having Irving, James, Allen and Miller if you need to trade your best defender for more offense?

[crc21209]

So if the Cavs get LeBron what were to happen in a Spurs-Cavs Finals? (I know I'm waaay ahead of myself, but just for fun) As good a shooters as Allen, Miller, and Love are...they don't play much defense :lol. And Irving is also pretty overrated on the defensive end. I woud love to see the Spurs crush LeBron and the city of Cleveland's heart again...:lol

[crc21209]

486970907395518464

Suuuure Laker deepthroater....:lol. She's just hoping. Nobody wants to play with Kobe and the trash they have there...

[Mal]

Suuuure Laker deepthroater....:lol. She's just hoping. Nobody wants to play with Kobe and the trash they have there...

And they cant overpay him, like Knicks :lmao

[Chinook]

Why are you acting like Danny Green is the only serviceable wing defender in the world? Whether it's FA (Marion, Aminu, Thabo) or trade (Tony Allen, Delfino, Webster, Garcia) or some no name guy like Danny Green was that people haven't really bought into or given a chance (D-League has several guys who have shown good defensive capabilities), there are options.

Bosh did fine with MIA and played a big role in MIA winning titles. Love as a second option may very well fare better than Bosh too. While Bosh is much better defensively than Love, I struggle to call him an "elite anchor". Even in reduced versions of themselves, Bosh was huge in helping MIA win so I don't know why that matters so much.

It's not that Danny Green is special. It's that the Cavs need an actual plan to get someone at that position. It's not something you half-ass or think about as an afterthought when you're trying to win it all.

Bosh did fine with Miami, but they don't want to max him out because they know he's overpaid. It's one thing to have to max out Love. It's another to give up at least one elite prospect for the privilege to do so.

[DPG21920]

I think of it like this: while MIA had Wade/Bosh as reduced versions of themselves because of the usage of Bron, they won 2 titles and had 4 straight finals appearances. The East (outside of Melo going to CHI) landscape doesn't change much so Lebron should still have an easy path to the finals in CLE.

Does he need Love/Kyrie? No, but instead of Wade/Bosh/Chalmers offensively he now has Waiters (not nearly as good as Wade, but younger) / Love (better than Bosh) / Kyrie. Assuming AV stays he has the anchor as much as he did in MIA.

I would much rather have Kyrie to go to as not only a spot up shooter, but in case things break down/Bron gets trapped vs Chalmers. I would rather have Love's ability to create/carry the load when Bron rests than Bosh. Wade is better than Waiters, but Waiters (if he grows at all as a player) can give you more minutes than Wade. Defensively/Offensively net having Love/Anderson with Bron is better IMO than Bosh/Birdman.

I would rather trade Kyrie, but I don't think it's at all dumb to move Wiggins for Love.

[crc21209]

I can see it now. Spurs-Cavs in the Finals with the Spurs prevailing again. The excuse will be "Well this team was too young and raw to win a title anyway." :cry :cry :cry Lebron needs more help..:rolleyes

[DPG21920]

That's pretty much the issue right there. What is the point of having Irving, James, Allen and Miller if you need to trade your best defender for more offense?

Lebron is their best defender and with more depth / offensive fire power + the ability to sign a wing defender or trade, Lebron could spend a little more time on defense and not be so worn out because he has help on offense.

[spursparker9]

So if the Cavs get LeBron what were to happen in a Spurs-Cavs Finals? (I know I'm waaay ahead of myself, but just for fun) As good a shooters as Allen, Miller, and Love are...they don't play much defense :lol. And Irving is also pretty overrated on the defensive end. I woud love to see the Spurs crush LeBron and the city of Cleveland's heart again...:lol

OKC with the addition of Pau > Lebron in Cleveland plus whichever role-players he wanted in the team.

[crc21209]

So if LeBron goes to CLE you have him, Irving, Varejao, Thompson, Waiters, Bennett, Love or Wiggins depening on what happens, Over the hill Allen and Miller if they sign. Is that 9 man crew good enough to get to the Finals? Maybe. But win it all? I don't think so..

[Chinook]

I think of it like this: while MIA had Wade/Bosh as reduced versions of themselves because of the usage of Bron, they won 2 titles and had 4 straight finals appearances. The East (outside of Melo going to CHI) landscape doesn't change much so Lebron should still have an easy path to the finals in CLE.

Does he need Love/Kyrie? No, but instead of Wade/Bosh/Chalmers offensively he now has Waiters (not nearly as good as Wade, but younger) / Love (better than Bosh) / Kyrie. Assuming AV stays he has the anchor as much as he did in MIA.

I would much rather have Kyrie to go to as not only a spot up shooter, but in case things break down/Bron gets trapped vs Chalmers. I would rather have Love's ability to create/carry the load when Bron rests than Bosh. Wade is better than Waiters, but Waiters (if he grows at all as a player) can give you more minutes than Wade. Defensively/Offensively net having Love/Anderson with Bron is better IMO than Bosh/Birdman.

I would rather trade Kyrie, but I don't think it's at all dumb to move Wiggins for Love.

I don't think you can look at the Miami model anymore. It clearly didn't work last year and just barely worked the year before that. And it left such a bad taste in James' mouth that he's considering jumping ship. Why would he want to do that again? He wants a team to take pressure off him on both ends. On offense, that means getting a bench ball-handler and players who don't need him to make shots for them. Defensively, it means getting a defensive ace and a true anchor.

Members of that first group of players aren't horribly hard to find. Steve Blake, Nick Young, Gary Neal are examples who can be had for cheap. They have a few on their team already. Elite defenders aren't nearly as easy to find. Ones who are good enough offensively to fit around James are even harder. Those are the Green, Leonard, Tyson, Ariza types.

[DPG21920]

So assuming you agree that getting someone like Aminu is reasonably rational for MIA, for basketball reasons, would you rather have Aminu+Love or Wiggins+Reasonable Assumption Stretch 4 offensive big (Bonner/Novak)?

I mean, money is part of the equation, but for CLE it doesn't appear to be a major hurdle at this point. No doubt from a flexibility perspective, keeping Wiggins and going cheap on an offensive stretch big gives you more flexibility but how much does that really matter for CLE right now and going all in on winning (Lebron Max/Kyrie Max)?

[Chinook]

Lebron is their best defender and with more depth / offensive fire power + the ability to sign a wing defender or trade, Lebron could spend a little more time on defense and not be so worn out because he has help on offense.

James is going to carry the offense no matter what. That's just what he has to do. He may not have to do all the scoring, but he does need to run the offense to be effective, like Parker. There's no reason why he has to carry a defense, though.

[CGD]

Cavs need an interior guy but not sure it's love if items trading away wiggins.

They may be better off keeping wiggins, and trading for a defensive anchor like DeAndre Jordan whose deal expires after this year. Hell they may now be in the Gasol sweepstakes with assets to do a sign and trade. An Andy/Gasol pairing wouldn't be bad in the east.

[Chinook]

So assuming you agree that getting someone like Aminu is reasonably rational for MIA, for basketball reasons, would you rather have Aminu+Love or Wiggins+Reasonable Assumption Stretch 4 offensive big (Bonner/Novak)?

I mean, money is part of the equation, but for CLE it doesn't appear to be a major hurdle at this point. No doubt from a flexibility perspective, keeping Wiggins and going cheap on an offensive stretch big gives you more flexibility but how much does that really matter for CLE right now and going all in on winning (Lebron Max/Kyrie Max)?

I'd take Wiggins/Ryan Anderson over Love/Aminu. They already have Wiggins, so they'd just have to trade for Anderson (whom the Pels are reportedly shopping). They'd have to both trade for Love and acquire Aminu somehow, and it's not even like Aminu is a great defender.

[Seventyniner]

James is going to carry the offense no matter what. That's just what he has to do. He may not have to do all the scoring, but he does need to run the offense to be effective, like Parker. There's no reason why he has to carry a defense, though.

There is if your teammates are guys like Irving, Love, and Waiters. LeBron is a crazy efficient scorer and most stats are for offense, but defense is half the game and if LeBron were willing to be a defense-first player he'd be a holy terror.

[DPG21920]

So if LeBron goes to CLE you have him, Irving, Varejao, Thompson, Waiters, Bennett, Love or Wiggins depening on what happens, Over the hill Allen and Miller if they sign. Is that 9 man crew good enough to get to the Finals? Maybe. But win it all? I don't think so..

Well you likely have to take Wiggins out. Probably Anderson too but for the sake of argument, let's say they find a way to keep him.

Miami got to the finals with Chalmers/Wade/Bron/Bosh/Birdman with really Allen/Lewis/Battier/Cole coming off the bench.

I personally think that a lineup of Kyrie/Waiters/Bron/Love/Anderson with Ray/Miller/Thompson/Bennett is better. Significantly.

Kyrie is a much better spot up shooter and playmaker overall. Waiters while not as good as Wade has more upside at this point of his career and has shown some flashes. Bron is Bron. I like Love/Anderson more than Bosh/Birdman and Thompson is better than any bench big MIA had. Bennett looks awful, but at least there is hope there (where Lewis/Haslem looked done). Ray is Ray and Miller seems better than Battier.

[Chinook]

There is if your teammates are guys like Irving, Love, and Waiters. LeBron is a crazy efficient scorer and most stats are for offense, but defense is half the game and if LeBron were willing to be a defense-first player he'd be a holy terror.

That's what the whole discussion is about. You can just have Wiggins as the defensive terror and use James on offense. Then you get the scoring too.

[DPG21920]

I don't think you can look at the Miami model anymore. It clearly didn't work last year and just barely worked the year before that. And it left such a bad taste in James' mouth that he's considering jumping ship. Why would he want to do that again? He wants a team to take pressure off him on both ends. On offense, that means getting a bench ball-handler and players who don't need him to make shots for them. Defensively, it means getting a defensive ace and a true anchor.

Members of that first group of players aren't horribly hard to find. Steve Blake, Nick Young, Gary Neal are examples who can be had for cheap. They have a few on their team already. Elite defenders aren't nearly as easy to find. Ones who are good enough offensively to fit around James are even harder. Those are the Green, Leonard, Tyson, Ariza types.

Well there is no doubt that Waiters/Kyrie/Love don't need Bron to do anything for them offensively. He will have more than enough help. However, having a legit scoring big is huge and Love is the best.

I don't get saying it barely worked? 4 straight finals and two wins is working. There is no other way to slice it and this supporting cast (whether you agree with Love vs Wiggins or not) is better than Miami's. Bron (IMO) had a bad taste because his supporting cast was old (not in CLE), couldn't score without him doing everything to set them up (not in CLE) and because management penny-pinched after he took a pay cut.

I don't think have two talented players by his side left the bad taste - it was the above.

[DPG21920]

I'd take Wiggins/Ryan Anderson over Love/Aminu. They already have Wiggins, so they'd just have to trade for Anderson (whom the Pels are reportedly shopping). They'd have to both trade for Love and acquire Aminu somehow, and it's not even like Aminu is a great defender.

Ok - I'd buy that, but that's assuming CLE wouldn't have to give up anyone for Anderson. To me, giving up a rookie for Love is better because basketball wise (on the court and asset wise) you know you are getting the best player and it's not likely Wiggins becomes as good a Love. Love gives you options on the court and off it. You are paying top dollar for that, but the point remains.

While it's one move vs two, this is all assuming the Love deal is doable with Wiggins. At that point, it's just another move to sign Aminu (which should be easy) or trading for a good wing defender (which seems doable).

[cjw]

I would rather trade Kyrie, but I don't think it's at all dumb to move Wiggins for Love.

I'm still trying to figure out the math as to how they could sign Lebron AND trade for Love. Didn't they just dump all the contracts that would need to match Love's? Irving ($7.0) and Wiggins' deals aren't close to what Love's is ($15.7). I guess it would be Varejao but isn't he someone who's pulling Lebron that way? Though he'd probably gladly swap Love for him.

[MaNu4Tres]

There's no reason why he has to carry a defense, though.



I don't understand the logic behind one player carrying a defense. In basketball these days, with the way spacing is, and with the way the players are the most athletic as they have ever been, good/great defense takes all five men on the court accounting for one another. This isn't 1963, where one big man in the middle can dominate and negate most of the opposing offense of non-athletic, short players. There's no excuse for a player, like LeBron, to get a pass to rest on defense. He's skill-set and level of play on both ends is too important to his team and it's success.

For one, he's extremely competitive, so he wouldn't even think about resting on the defensive end in a relevant regular season game or playoff battle -- win's are too important to him. 2) He's a leader, he knows that. Therefore players feed off the energy (defensive or offensive) he brings to the court-- it's a case of "leading by example". The best players in the world should always feel responsible on both ends of the court. IMO

Do the Cavs need more help? Sure they do, especially on the defensive end. However, we don't know what other moves they plan on making and we don't know the defensive ( competitive) potential of Kyrie or Love or any other Cav (besides Andy), considering they have all have played on crappy teams their entire career-- which inevitably leads to more "careless" play (especially late in the year).

[Chinook]

Well there is no doubt that Waiters/Kyrie/Love don't need Bron to do anything for them offensively. He will have more than enough help. However, having a legit scoring big is huge and Love is the best.

I don't get saying it barely worked? 4 straight finals and two wins is working. There is no other way to slice it and this supporting cast (whether you agree with Love vs Wiggins or not) is better than Miami's. Bron (IMO) had a bad taste because his supporting cast was old (not in CLE), couldn't score without him doing everything to set them up (not in CLE) and because management penny-pinched after he took a pay cut.

I don't think have two talented players by his side left the bad taste - it was the above.

It didn't work because the Spurs creamed them, and most feel the majority of the Western playoff teams would have done the same thing. This wasn't like 2013 when the Spurs focused to stop him. They played him straight up and shut down everyone else. They'd wreck that new Cavs team the same way. And they defense would be even worse, since they both have inferior personnel and no identity. They may have a higher 2K rating, but I don't think they'd be all that much better.

[Knoxxx]

I have not read the thread since yesterday but last night I was thinking Melo to Lakers made most sense and Gasol returning there.

Heat will pay their 3 $55 million and all will return. They don't add anyone else beyond Granger/McRoberts. The fossils of Anderson, Allen, and Lewis all return. A few other non consequential vet mins fill out their roster.

Those are my fearless predictions as of now.

[CGD]

How nuts would it have been if embiid wasn't hurt and the cavs selected him at 1? Doubt we'd be talking about Love.

[DPG21920]

:lol I have no doubt Kyrie and Love will always suck on defense tbh..But having Lebron/Anderson and perhaps a decent trade for a wing defender or a couple of solid very low end defensive guys might give you enough options.

The point is Chinook is talking a perfectly constructed roster which is obviously tough to do. Even though he's saying CLE would in theory have that without Love by keeping Wiggins and bringing in a guy like Anderson (which sure, that's realistic, but what will it take to get him?); that's making some big assumptions. He's placing all his eggs in the Wiggins as an elite wing defender basket. I am not saying he can't be great, but it's seemingly tough for rookies to come in and be great stoppers early on. Takes a couple years (which CLE has time, but you know they want to win as much as they can now).

It's also assuming that there is essentially no gap in Ryan Anderson and Love because of Lebron's usage which I disagree with. It may negate some of the gap, but not all of it.

I agree in principle with Chinook, but like I said, I think the offense would be so good (even with Lebron on the bench which is huge) that it offsets things. Then if they can sign a good wing defender or trade for one (Tony Allen) it really goes in CLE's favor. Basically, to me, whether you are thinking just on the court basketball or future value for trades if things don't work out) getting Love for Wiggins makes sense IMO.

[Aztecfan03]

Provided this James-to-Cleveland thing happens, Miller would take the rest of the cap space, and Allen/Granger would take the room exception.

Granger? He would renege and follow lebron?

[DPG21920]

It didn't work because the Spurs creamed them, and most feel the majority of the Western playoff teams would have done the same thing. This wasn't like 2013 when the Spurs focused to stop him. They played him straight up and shut down everyone else. They'd wreck that new Cavs team the same way. And they defense would be even worse, since they both have inferior personnel and no identity. They may have a higher 2K rating, but I don't think they'd be all that much better.

It's a lot easier to shut down Chalmers than Kyrie. Same for Bosh over Love. Same for Battier or Ray Allen over Waiters. Sure, they would likely be worse defensively, but if CLE signs a couple cheap but decent wing defenders or pulls a trade for a really good one, that changes quickly.

I just find it odd that even though people point out all of MIA's flaws and how they got creamed, they still have 4 straight finals and two wins. It's not like it "failed". This new cast would easily be more talented, younger & have way more upside with the same chances of getting to the finals.

Plus, their trade assets to correct wrongs are much, much better. Love is way more movable and sought after vs Bosh (IMO). Kyrie is more sought after than Wade (IMO). Young guys like Waiters/Thompson are pieces that could appeal to teams. It's just better in every scenario IMO with less downside.

Clearly worse defensively, but if that is the only flaw, in the real world that is the East, I feel it's worth it for the upgrades every where else and they can somewhat close that gap with smart value signings or a good trade (not guaranteed).

[Chinook]

I don't understand the logic behind one player carrying a defense. In basketball these days, with the way spacing is, and with the way the players are the most athletic as they have ever been, good/great defense takes all five men on the court accounting for one another. This isn't 1963, where one big man in the middle can dominate and negate most of the opposing offense of non-athletic, short players. There's no excuse for a player, like LeBron, to get a pass to rest on defense. He's skill-set and level of play on both ends is too important to his team and it's success.

For one, he's extremely competitive, so he wouldn't even think about resting on the defensive end in a relevant regular season game or playoff battle -- win's are too important to him. 2) He's a leader, he knows that. Therefore players feed off the energy (defensive or offensive) he brings to the court-- it's a case of "leading by example". The best players in the world should always feel responsible on both ends of the court. IMO

Do the Cavs need more help? Sure they do, especially on the defensive end. However, we don't know what other moves they plan on making and we don't know the defensive ( competitive) potential of Kyrie or Love or any other Cav (besides Andy), considering they have all have played on crappy teams their entire career-- which inevitably leads to more "careless" play (especially late in the year).

I don't agree with that. Defensive aces are more important now then ever. If you don't think Lebron carried Miami's defense, I don't know what to tell you. Hibbert's anchoring of the Pacers took them to the ECF two years ago. Tyson Chandler made Dallas champions. Can one guy do it alone? Nope. But one guy can raise the level of a team's defense.

And don't confuse the Spurs' offense with the rest of the league. An ace can certainly cripple most teams' offenses.

[Chinook]

It's a lot easier to shut down Chalmers than Kyrie. Same for Bosh over Love. Same for Battier or Ray Allen over Waiters. Sure, they would likely be worse defensively, but if CLE signs a couple cheap but decent wing defenders or pulls a trade for a really good one, that changes quickly.

I just find it odd that even though people point out all of MIA's flaws and how they got creamed, they still have 4 straight finals and two wins. It's not like it "failed". This new cast would easily be more talented, younger & have way more upside with the same chances of getting to the finals.

Plus, their trade assets to correct wrongs are much, much better. Love is way more movable and sought after vs Bosh (IMO). Kyrie is more sought after than Wade (IMO). Young guys like Waiters/Thompson are pieces that could appeal to teams. It's just better in every scenario IMO with less downside.

Clearly worse defensively, but if that is the only flaw, in the real world that is the East, I feel it's worth it for the upgrades every where else and they can somewhat close that gap with smart value signings or a good trade (not guaranteed).

Being a bad defensive team is a hell of a flaw. It kills teams more than anything else. Walls like Memphis and Indiana have made it to the conference finals recently. Glass cannons rarely make it that far.

The Spurs are definitely a rare defensive team, but they certainly could shut down all of those players simultaneously while still playing potent offense. You're talking about three iso players who aren't elite shooters. We're not talking about a real offensive juggernaut here.

[MaNu4Tres]

Make no mistake, Kyrie and Love are elite creators/shot finders in the league. They will be more effective and efficient on the offensive end if they are teamed with Bron because: A) Their touches will be limited, therefore their resource of energy will be exerted more efficiently, which will help their overall efficiency offensively.

Before in their career, they'd have to have the ball in their hands every-time down the floor if their team stood a chance to win. That inevitably led to bad, forced or rushed shots frequently. With LeBron, they can pick and choose their moments more effectively.

On the other hand, because of Love and Kyrie's superior offensive game, LeBron won't have to exert as much energy as he did with the Heat on the offensive end. That should help him be more efficient on the offensive end (if he can be lol) and more effective on the defensive end.

As you can see, I like Kyrie and Love over Bosh and Wade. I just think Love and Kyrie's game can help LeBron breathe a little more, which would help the team all around. IMO

[Mal]

Dont make mistake. Love and Waiters wont play same team next year.

[ace3g]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)ESPN sources say Mavericks and Rockets RFA Chandler Parsons have reached agreement on three-year offer sheet worth in excess of $45 million

[Cloud786]

487006694132948995

[MaNu4Tres]

I don't agree with that. Defensive aces are more important now then ever. If you don't think Lebron carried Miami's defense, I don't know what to tell you. Hibbert's anchoring of the Pacers took them to the ECF two years ago. Tyson Chandler made Dallas champions. Can one guy do it alone? Nope. But one guy can raise the level of a team's defense.

And don't confuse the Spurs' offense with the rest of the league. An ace can certainly cripple most teams' offenses.

I never said LeBron never carried Heat's defense. I just said LeBron's competitive nature won't let him "relax" or "take plays off" on the defensive end in relevant games. He's too good of a competitor and defensive player to not try to give it his all defensively-- it's who he is.

As for defensive anchors, what is Varejao then? He's one of the best interior defenders when healthy. Still that one component can't dominate games like it used to back in the 60's and 70's. There has to be more pieces to the puzzle and more cohesive accountable play by five guys on the defensive end. IMO

[SpursFan86]

Great news regarding Parsons. That all but guarantees they won't be able to get Bosh AND keep Parsons. It'll be one or the other.

[DesignatedT]

Hmmm the pot thickens.

[Mal]

45 mil for Parsons. Holy shit.

[objective]

Why would lebron join the cavs when as far as has been reported, he's never even had a meeting or even phone conversation with David Blatt? I think he spoke to Spoelstra last decision and had Wade to vouch for him. Plus the appeal of Riley coming in to coach as a safety net.

Seems bizarre to give cave rumors too much credence.

[Mr. Body]

487006694132948995

That's a lot of cheese.

He's a good player though. Hurts Rockets. Dallas could potentially be very good. Top 4 in the West.

[LakerHater]

487007455776210944

[LakerHater]

So the Rockets have until sometime Sunday to use their cap space before it goes poof.

[Chinook]

I never said LeBron never carried Heat's defense. I just said LeBron's competitive nature won't let him "relax" or "take plays off" on the defensive end in relevant games. He's too good of a competitor and defensive player to not try to give it his all defensively-- it's who he is.

As for defensive anchors, what is Varejao then? He's one of the best interior defenders when healthy. Still that one component can't dominate games like it used to back in the 60's and 70's. There has to be more pieces to the puzzle and more cohesive accountable play by five guys on the defensive end. IMO

I don't get where the idea of Varejao being ab anchor comes from. He's a terrific rebounder, but that's it for that end.

Also not having to carry a defense is not the same as taking plays off. Instead, it's not having to protect the rim while also checking the opponent's best scorer.

[SpursFan86]

So the Rockets have until sometime Sunday to use their cap space before it goes poof.

Correct.

Houston better hope LeBron makes up his damn mind.

[Chinook]

If the Rockets don't match, then they're legitimately idiots for not picking up his option.

[LakerHater]

Houston and Parsons, a restricted free agent, negotiated throughout day, but were unable to come to an agreement on a deal, sources said.

[DPG21920]

Great news regarding Parsons. That all but guarantees they won't be able to get Bosh AND keep Parsons. It'll be one or the other.

Not really. The cap space is there. If Bosh decides tomorrow, they can sign him and then exceed the cap to sign Parsons (if they want to).

[SpursFan86]

Not really. The cap space is there. If Bosh decides tomorrow, they can sign him and then exceed the cap to sign Parsons (if they want to).

Yeah, I initially thought that his cap hold changed as soon as he signed the offer sheet (as opposed to when the other team matches). All this means now is that they better sign Bosh within the next 3 days if they want to keep Parsons.

[DPG21920]

They can actually have Bosh sign in 3 days and still be fine.

But how did Parson's only get 3 years when Hayward got 4 at the same per year amount??

[MaNu4Tres]

Question: Do you think LeBron will have to exert more energy offensively teamed with Bosh/Wade or Kyrie/Love? Which pair pumps more oxygen into his lungs? Hypothetical question, I know.

[DPG21920]

Not only that, but they have Waiters and Thompson.

[Mal]

They can actually have Bosh sign in 3 days and still be fine.

But how did Parson's only get 3 years when Hayward got 4 at the same per year amount??

Cockblock move by Cuban. Parsons isnt worth 15mil a year in team/city/franchise like Dallas.

Hayward was worth overpaying by Charlotte, cause they wont get any FA quick.

[SpursFan86]

487010610995920896

Parsons wasting no time.

[Chinook]

Question: Do you think LeBron will have to exert more energy offensively teamed with Bosh/Wade or Kyrie/Love? Which pair pumps more oxygen into his lungs? Hypothetical question, I know.

I think it'll be the same. He won't need to score as much, but he's going to still run the offense. It's just what he does. It's what you do when you're the best player ever.

[AFBlue]

Shit just got real for Houston. I'd be PISSED at the Mavs for pressing the decision. I wonder what Bosh will do.

[Mal]

Shit just got real for Houston. I'd be PISSED at the Mavs for pressing the decision. I wonder what Bosh will do.

And Bosh is waiting on Bron`s decision.

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)No clear answer yet on Rockets matching sheet, but GM Morey had been on phone w/ agents for Ariza, Deng and Pierce today, sources tell Y.

[DPG21920]

:lol Why would you be on the phones with those FA's when you declined the option for Parson's forcing the issue a year early? Did you really think that he wouldn't get an offer like this? Hell, in all honesty, him only getting 3 years vs the 4 Hayward got should be a good thing. Makes no damn sense.

[MaNu4Tres]

:lol Why would you be on the phones with those FA's when you declined the option for Parson's forcing the issue a year early? Did you really think that he wouldn't get an offer like this? Hell, in all honesty, him only getting 3 years vs the 4 Hayward got should be a good thing. Makes no damn sense.

I wonder what Moreys' thinking or approach to this. Bosh isn't a guarantee but Parsons is (one of the best two-way SF's in the league; very underrated defender). I wouldn't let Parsons go to Dallas if Bosh hasn't made a decision by the last day to match. Take the double over trying to swing for the fence.

[SpursFan86]

487014354756599809

[LakerHater]

And, remember: a sign and trade between teams is only possible until a player signs an offer sheet. Afterward, can't do it.

[SpursFan86]

487016806520225794

:lol Can you imagine if some scumbag team tried offering Duncan the max?

[RD2191]

:lmao

[LakerHater]

LeBron James has met with Heat officials and has not yet made a free agent decision, sources told ESPN

[Chinook]

That's officially badass. Dirk would do well to go there from a basketball perspective. But Houston needs to trade for Carlisle too.

[LakerHater]

487017548953563137

[crc21209]

WTF?! Houston offered Dirk the Max? They cant be serious right? Imagine if Dirk took it...:lol

[DPG21920]

Sheridan is just putting out what he thinks will happen in case it does so he gets "credibility" back. If he's wrong, he knows nothing comes of it anyways. If he's right, he can try and take credit.

[objective]

Too bad about the call hold RFA loophole confirmed by Coon that affords Houston the chance to sign whoever during the 72 hr window with only the initial cap hold in place and then matching.

Seems like it should apply to both teams, but it doesn't and that sucks.

[SpursFan86]

487018952707416064

Hopefully Ariza/Deng both stay in the East. Last thing we need is for good role players to come over to Western teams that are already close to contending.

[DPG21920]

So correct me if I am wrong, but a max deal for Parson's (outside of HOU) was 4 years, 60M-ish no? I guess people have Hayward pegged that much higher (or at least one team)?

[Chinook]

So correct me if I am wrong, but a max deal for Parson's (outside of HOU) was 4 years, 60M-ish no? I guess people have Hayward pegged that much higher (or at least one team)?

He got a three-year max, and Hayward got a four-year max. They'll be making the same money over the first three years.

[DPG21920]

That's officially badass. Dirk would do well to go there from a basketball perspective. But Houston needs to trade for Carlisle too.

What is the rule on Parson's again and how he became a RFA vs picking up his option this year and him being an UFA next year?

I know you can only be a RFA if you are a first round pick coming off your 4th year of your rookie scale contract, no?

[AFBlue]

487016806520225794

:lol Can you imagine if some scumbag team tried offering Duncan the max?

Oh yeah, Morey is clearly pissed at the Mavs for that move on Parsons. This was a counter that shows it clearly even if it has no chance of actually happening.

[SpursFan86]

487020486313127937

[DPG21920]

He got a three-year max, and Hayward got a four-year max. They'll be making the same money over the first three years.

No - I get that, was just wondering:

1) if the 4 year max was the same or slightly different because of draft spot
2) why someone would give Hayward the 4th year and Parsons the 3 year (and why he would accept that seeing Hayward got 4 years)

[SpursFan86]

487021925680832512

Yay...more waiting.

[Chinook]

No - I get that, was just wondering:

1) if the 4 year max was the same or slightly different because of draft spot
2) why someone would give Hayward the 4th year and Parsons the 3 year (and why he would accept that seeing Hayward got 4 years)

It's based on tenure only for players who aren't already making the max.

Parsons' deal lines up with Dirk's.

[Drom John]

So correct me if I am wrong, but a max deal for Parson's (outside of HOU) was 4 years, 60M-ish no? I guess people have Hayward pegged that much higher (or at least one team)?

The correction is that Parson got the better contract. He has two opportunities to hit free agency on his third contract earlier for bigger than $15 / year. He has a player option in 2016 and hits free agency again in 2018 after two years of the new tv money.

[cjw]

45 mil for Parsons. Holy shit.

Not only that, but by Morey being cute, Parsons got offered a three year deal (would be hilarious if it has a player option for year 3) so will have him under control for less years AND now has to maneuver like mad to get the Bosh deal / Lin trade done in the next 76 hours and 1 minute.

[Chinook]

What is the rule on Parson's again and how he became a RFA vs picking up his option this year and him being an UFA next year?

I know you can only be a RFA if you are a first round pick coming off your 4th year of your rookie scale contract, no?

Fourth year for people coming off rookie-scale deals. Third year or earlier for all other players. Option years keep Bird rights amd RFA status, except in the case where it's the TO for rookie-scale players.

[crc21209]

Just pick a team already, fuck!

[DPG21920]

Fourth year for people coming off rookie-scale deals. Third year or earlier for all other players. Option years keep Bird rights amd RFA status, except in the case where it's the TO for rookie-scale players.

So because Parson's was not a first round pick and had an option year in what was the third year of his deal (which they declined) he became a RFA. Otherwise, if they picked up that option in the third year, he's an UFA next year correct?

[Mel_13]

:lol Why would you be on the phones with those FA's when you declined the option for Parson's forcing the issue a year early? Did you really think that he wouldn't get an offer like this? Hell, in all honesty, him only getting 3 years vs the 4 Hayward got should be a good thing. Makes no damn sense.

They were presumably planning to keep Parsons even if they got Melo, Morey's got 72 hours to use that cap space and still keep Parsons.

Bad ass move by the Mavs, IMO.

From the Spurs perspective, this would seem to make it easier to pick off Marion or Carter if they were so inclined.

[BackHome]

I think it'll be the same. He won't need to score as much, but he's going to still run the offense. It's just what he does. It's what you do when you're the best player ever.

You forgot to use blue font for that last sentence.

[DPG21920]

They were presumably planning to keep Parsons even if they got Melo, Morey's got 72 hours to use that cap space and still keep Parsons.

Bad ass move by the Mavs, IMO.

From the Spurs perspective, this would seem to make it easier to pick off Marion or Carter if they were so inclined.

If they weren't planning on keeping Parsons if they got Melo or Bosh, then they are the biggest dummies ever for declining that option.

But while it forces HOU hand some, I have my doubts on the real impact. I mean, I would suspect that Bosh and/or Melo and/or Lebron probably make their decision before 3 days after the moratorium. But it does now force that on HOU for their plans to work which is good.

Nice by the Mavs, but that is a large contract :lol So they either better be sure HOU will match (which they will) and were just being savvy or they better think Parsons at 15M per year is a good deal :lol

[SpursFan86]

Kind of unrelated, but did any of y'all just see Bertans get injured in this SL game? Looked brutal...hopefully it's nothing too serious...

[Mel_13]

So because Parson's was not a first round pick and had an option year in what was the third year of his deal (which they declined) he became a RFA. Otherwise, if they picked up that option in the third year, he's an UFA next year correct?

Yes. Different rules for players signed to the rookie scale. Otherwise, three years means RFA, 4 years means UFA. (Splitter-RFA, Blair-UFA).

[Mel_13]

If they weren't planning on keeping Parsons if they got Melo or Bosh, then they are the biggest dummies ever for declining that option.

I think they were definitely planning on keeping Parsons. They may have been a bit too cocky about their ability to attract a major FA and are now in scramble mode.

[hsxvvd]

He can't make up his mind because he's a bandwagon pussy who needs to make sure his team is already stacked. Bosh, Melo even worse wanting to ride his coat tails... fucking pathetic the lot of them. Nut the fuck up resign with your loser teams and prepare to be beaten by real men again.

[DPG21920]

Yes. Different rules for players signed to the rookie scale. Otherwise, three years means RFA, 4 years means UFA. (Splitter-RFA, Blair-UFA).

For vets, after the rookie scale contract, RFA comes from Bird Rights, correct?

[DPG21920]

Thanks to Mel & Chinook for clearing that up though. Don't know why I got it mixed up.

[cjw]

Has New Orleans gotten the money to work to take on Asik yet? It's not just the Lin deal Houston needs to get done - NO has to shed some money to get Asik.

I think Cuban is a genius for trying to muck things up for Houston with the Parsons offer. If they can't get everything worked out within 72 hours, they'll have to match (only two years of control of Parsons too with the player option) and Bosh will be on the market again. Could he end up on the Mavs despite the overlap with Dirk? Stranger things have happened - essentially rotating the big man minutes between the two + Chandler? If a team trots out a crap offensive player in a series too like OKC last year (Thabo/Fisher), you could play all three at once and have a huge mismatch on offense.

[Mel_13]

For vets, after the rookie scale contract, RFA comes from Bird Rights, correct?

If a player does all 4 years of rookie scale contract, he can be an RFA that summer. He won't ever be an RFA again.

[DPG21920]

If a player does all 4 years of rookie scale contract, he can be an RFA that summer. He won't ever be an RFA again.

I think I am confusing "extension" scenarios and right to exceed cap to sign FA's with RFA.

[AFBlue]

Mavs shitting on the Rockets tbqh.

[elemento]

Morey got fucked hard by Cuban :lol

72 hours to make all his big moves. I think Morey probably underestimated the ability of GMs to overpay when they have cap space.

He is tasting his own medicine now. I'm loving it.

90% of the contracts I've seen this off-season are absolutely atrocious. Superstars are severely underpaid in the NBA.

[Aztecfan03]

Kind of unrelated, but did any of y'all just see Bertans get injured in this SL game? Looked brutal...hopefully it's nothing too serious...

someone in summer league thread said it was Bertans' brother.

[SpursFan86]

someone in summer league thread said it was Bertans' brother.

It was his brother. I didn't know how to spell his first name so I just said Bertans. Davis Bertans isn't playing in the SL, so it couldn't have been him. Sorry for any confusion.

[DesignatedT]

So what's dwyane wade going to do :lol. His boys are just going to leave him hangin?

I still think Lebron and Bosh end up staying in Miami. I think.

[TheGoldStandard]

So what's dwyane wade going to do :lol. His boys are just going to leave him hangin?

I still think Lebron and Bosh end up staying in Miami. I think.

If they all go back to Miami it's a failed business move by James. Wade screwed himself royally by cashing out before he got another huge payday for a sinking ship that Miami will turn into.

[ace3g]

Shams Charania @ShamsCharania
(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)RealGM Sources: Clippers, Cavaliers are among six strong suitors for Bobcats free agent forward Anthony Tolliver. tinyurl.com/ks5v2j9 (http://t.co/CwGCqmZnUc)

[LakerHater]

487032654349365248

[SpursFan86]

487038740817133569

487038861961621504

[SpursFan86]

I don't know much about Tolliver...what do y'all think about him?

[LakerHater]

487038861961621504

[TheGoldStandard]

487038740817133569

487038861961621504

Anthony Tolliver sucks

[TheGoldStandard]

487038861961621504

That's really sad.

[Mel_13]

I don't know much about Tolliver...what do y'all think about him?

Black Bonner, not as good as the ginger original.

[TheGoldStandard]

Black Bonner, not as good as the ginger original.

Has suck written all over him

[SpursFan86]

487042427996635136

Welp.

[ace3g]

NBA on ESPN @ESPNNBA
(https://twitter.com/ESPNNBA)If LeBron leaves Heat, Bosh will join Rockets (via @Chris_Broussard (https://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard/) & @WindhorstESPN (https://twitter.com/WindhorstESPN/)). es.pn/1mKW43K (http://t.co/wpLnuD43kg) pic.twitter.com/YNt811USBb (http://t.co/YNt811USBb)

[Cloud786]

487043095649718272

[xmas1997]

NBA on ESPN @ESPNNBA
(https://twitter.com/ESPNNBA)If LeBron leaves Heat, Bosh will join Rockets (via @Chris_Broussard (https://twitter.com/Chris_Broussard/) & @WindhorstESPN (https://twitter.com/WindhorstESPN/)). es.pn/1mKW43K (http://t.co/wpLnuD43kg) pic.twitter.com/YNt811USBb (http://t.co/YNt811USBb)



:lmao
Broussard just now figuring this out while we here at ST have know it for a couple of days already.

[TheGoldStandard]

487042427996635136

Welp.

Riley asked for one more day and put it to Bosh to pull this move out as a last gasp to sway him putting it on James for breaking up the Big 3 not on Riley. Wade on the other hand is shaking his head because he opted out of his last super huge payday for this shit, lol.. It's funny.

[RD2191]

LeBron is one cold mother if he leaves Wade hanging like that. Mother fucker is bringing the entire organization down. :lol

[TheGoldStandard]

LeBron is one cold mother if he leaves Wade hanging like that. Mother fucker is bringing the entire organization down. :lol

It's business. He knows he needs to cut his losses, Jeff Ayres Dad did and never regretted it

[RD2191]

It's business. He knows he needs to cut his losses, Jeff Ayres Dad did and never regretted it
:lmao

[Ron Swanson]

Breaking: Exclusive clip of LeBron this evening.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTOKJTRHMdw&feature=kp

[Vic Petro]

487044449881432065

[SpursFan86]

Cleveland fans right now:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BsJPTW5CAAMDXUn.jpg

[Richie]

Parsons just put a clock on Lebron. If Lebron doesn't commit to the Heat before Parsons 72 hours are up, I think Bosh signs for the Rockets regardless and leaves Lebron in the lurch.

Even if that means the Heat sign Melo and James returns, that's a worse team than it was last year. They gonna start a 'big man' pairing of McRoberts/Andersen? Or Melo with one of those two? Indiana would destroy that tiny team.

[LakerHater]

487041136112852992

[TheGoldStandard]

Don't the Rox have to move Lin to make this happen?

[Mel_13]

Parsons just put a clock on Lebron. If Lebron doesn't commit to the Heat before Parsons 72 hours are up, I think Bosh signs for the Rockets regardless and leaves Lebron in the lurch.

Even if that means the Heat sign Melo and James returns, that's a worse team than it was last year. They gonna start a 'big man' pairing of McRoberts/Andersen? Or Melo with one of those two? Indiana would destroy that tiny team.

Bosh can't sign with the Rockets until they complete the Asik trade and then get someone to take Lin and complete that trade. Morey will be very busy trying to get that done before the clock runs out on Parsons.

[SpursFan86]

Don't the Rox have to move Lin to make this happen?

Been hearing they have something lined up with Philly. Not sure how concrete it is, but I don't think they'll have too much trouble getting rid of Lin.

[TheGoldStandard]

Been hearing they have something lined up with Philly. Not sure how concrete it is, but I don't think they'll have too much trouble getting rid of Lin.

They better make it a very enticing deal because Lin is a suck.

[TheGoldStandard]

If I'm Riley and I see the writing on the wall he better get Bosh to push for a sign and trade and get something for everyone abandoning ship

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Been hearing they have something lined up with Philly. Not sure how concrete it is, but I don't think they'll have too much trouble getting rid of Lin.

I believe that involved getting Parson bc Philly deal fell through if you kept up w it. Basically Philly said there wasn't enough meat in the trade to bite.

Lin owed 15mil this year. Rockets are going to have a hard time convincing any team on taking that salary.

[Mel_13]

I believe that involved getting Parson bc Philly deal fell through if you kept up w it. Basically Philly said there wasn't enough meat in the trade to bite.

Lin owed 15mil this year. Rockets are going to have a hard time convincing any team on taking that salary.

Even harder when everyone else knows that they have to get the deal done in less than 72hours. The price to use someone else's cap space has to be going up.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

If I'm Riley and I see the writing on the wall he better get Bosh to push for a sign and trade and get something for everyone abandoning ship

That is why Houston should have kept Asik and option Parson. They would have had the trade asset to get Melo or Bosh. Now they just have Lin and most GM are like hell no to that trade. Any trade involving Lin would probably have to include Beverly and a couple of future 1st rounders.

[xmas1997]

If I'm Riley and I see the writing on the wall he better get Bosh to push for a sign and trade and get something for everyone abandoning ship

Probably going to tell Bosh that James doesn't want to play with him anymore so get the hell out and go to Houston.

[Ron Swanson]

Yeah, Houston is going to get bent over on any trades for Lin due to his contract and the limited time to get a deal done. Houston will pull the trigger, too.

[TheGoldStandard]

I believe that involved getting Parson bc Philly deal fell through if you kept up w it. Basically Philly said there wasn't enough meat in the trade to bite.

Lin owed 15mil this year. Rockets are going to have a hard time convincing any team on taking that salary.

Only 8 and some change against the cap but yeah who's going to bite on that.. probably some dumbass team. Jason Kidd and Bucks will do it.

[Obi Juan Kenobi]

Houston has no leverage...

[TheGoldStandard]

Lakers should consider this, get some picks to replenish there barren wasteland and pick up a guard or maybe terrance jones..

[Mel_13]

Lakers should consider this, get some picks to replenish there barren wasteland and pick up a guard or maybe terrance jones..

Absolutely. This is a perfect opportunity for the Lakers to turn some of that cap space into useful, cheap assets.

[TheGoldStandard]

Absolutely. This is a perfect opportunity for the Lakers to turn some of that cap space into useful, cheap assets.

and the asian market doubles

[Ice009]

Black Bonner, not as good as the ginger original.

Yep. When he made the team after shooting lights out in the summer league, he completely choked with the Spurs on the NBA level. He couldn't hit a shot at all and Bonner basically bitch slapped him and ripped his spot back away from him. I'm not a Tolliver fan at all.

[cjw]

Even harder when everyone else knows that they have to get the deal done in less than 72hours. The price to use someone else's cap space has to be going up.

Who actually HAS cap space to trade into right now outside of the teams praying one of the A level guys signs with them?

- BOS just took salary (Thornton) into the Pierce trade exception / has the Bradley extension (though doesn't that kick in next year?)
- CHA signed the Hayward offer sheet
- NO has the pending Asik trade and I believe needs to ship money out to make it work
- TOR resigned Lowry though has Novak going out - I imagine they operate over the cap
- WAS has the Gortat deal that will push them close to if not over

Seems like there are a few teams that could make it work:
- UTA has it until they match on Hayward
- ATL, PHI, ORL could both sell some for future assets; SVG could do the same in DET even if they resigned Monroe
- PHX has to make a call on Bledsoe but could upgrade some of their other pieces in a deal that takes on salary

[Mel_13]

Who actually HAS cap space to trade into right now outside of the teams praying one of the A level guys signs with them?

Seems like there are a few teams that could make it work:
- UTA has it until they match on Hayward
- ATL, PHI, ORL could both sell some for future assets; SVG could do the same in DET even if they resigned Monroe
- PHX has to make a call on Bledsoe but could upgrade some of their other pieces in a deal that takes on salary

Lakers have cap space.

[Vic Petro]

487053350127423489

[cjw]

Lakers have cap space.

Saw your other post now - agree they should take on contracts that expire either this year or next as they're not winning as long as Kobe's making $25mm a year. But not sure if they're a rational franchise and I put them in the bucket of teams that are holding out hope for an A lister. If I'm them, I take on Lin plus assets from Houston and see if any bargains fall out elsewhere for role players and sign them to two year deals, hoping to trade them at the trade deadline. It's a tough sell to LA fans though.

[Mel_13]

Saw your other post now - agree they should take on contracts that expire either this year or next as they're not winning as long as Kobe's making $25mm a year. But not sure if they're a rational franchise and I put them in the bucket of teams that are holding out hope for an A lister. If I'm them, I take on Lin plus assets from Houston and see if any bargains fall out elsewhere for role players and sign them to two year deals, hoping to trade them at the trade deadline. It's a tough sell to LA fans though.

All that and keep Pau for two years. Pau plus picks plus players on rookie contracts could get them in the running to acquire Love.