Official 2014 Free Agency Thread

[jhfenton]

Unless it's part of the new CBA, I thought after the 4th year, a team could make a qualifying offer in order to make a player a restricted free agent which would allow the Spurs to match any offer from another team. Maybe the Spurs didn't want a cap hold.

Nah. There's a cap hold for Boris anyway, of $8.9 MM (190% of prior salary).

[Mel_13]

Unless it's part of the new CBA, I thought after the 4th year, a team could make a qualifying offer in order to make a player a restricted free agent which would allow the Spurs to match any offer from another team. Maybe the Spurs didn't want a cap hold.

Boris is an eleven year veteran. Such veterans cannot be made restricted free agents, not under this version of the CBA or any previous versions.

The current rules for restricted free agency:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q44

[ducks]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine · 2m

RT rAmonashelburne: Some doubt now Kobe lands in time to make Laker meeting w/ Melo after time was changed. Going to try to meet Melo later

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

its just to any Restricted FA... the spurs will make a QO on Leonard after year 4, assuming they didn't extend him at that point

I wasnt talking about players on rookie contracts but a player after their 3rd year. Like Patty, He played two years with the Blazers and a year w Spurs. They extended a qualifying offer to him at that point. Diaw can't be made an qualified offer bc he is not on a rookie contract or coming off his 3rd year in the league.

[Mel_13]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine · 2m

RT rAmonashelburne: Some doubt now Kobe lands in time to make Laker meeting w/ Melo after time was changed. Going to try to meet Melo later

Kobe knows that Melo won't choose the Lakers, doesn't want to share the blame for the failed pitch.

[FvckMavs]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine · 1m
RT Sam_amick: Thabo Sefolosha agrees to three-year, $12M deal w/Atlanta Hawks, @USATODAYsports confirms. ShamsCharania first reported.

[hsxvvd]

I hear Kendall Marshall and Robert Sacre will be there to pitch to Melo in place of Kobe..... :lol

[hsxvvd]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine · 1m
RT Sam_amick: Thabo Sefolosha agrees to three-year, $12M deal w/Atlanta Hawks, @USATODAYsports confirms. ShamsCharania first reported.

Patty Money.... I'd rather Patty

[Mel_13]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine · 1m
RT Sam_amick: Thabo Sefolosha agrees to three-year, $12M deal w/Atlanta Hawks, @USATODAYsports confirms. ShamsCharania first reported.

Thabo looked done in the WCF. Some mediocre players are really getting paid. Too much money chasing too little talent.

[FvckMavs]

Thabo looked done in the WCF. Some mediocre players are really getting paid. Too much money chasing too little talent.

I thought he would just get veteran minimum.

[Mel_13]

I thought he would just get veteran minimum.

I definitely wouldn't have wanted to see the Spurs dip into the MLE for him.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Thabo looked done in the WCF. Some mediocre players are really getting paid. Too much money chasing too little talent.

Thabo was playing w the same injury Parker had, well a strained calf muscle. He missed most the end of the season due to it. He is only 29. I guess Ferry and company are banking he will bounce back. Plus he fits perfectly in the Hawks system. If he gets back to his level a year ago, this could be a good deal for the Hawks.

[Mel_13]

Thabo was playing w the same injury Parker had, well a strained calf muscle. He missed most the end of the season due to it. He is only 29. I guess Ferry and company are banking he will bounce back. Plus he fits perfectly in the Hawks system. If he gets back to his level a year ago, this could be a good deal for the Hawks.

That's clearly what they're banking on.

[Mal]

I hear Kendall Marshall and Robert Sacre will be there to pitch to Melo in place of Kobe..... :lol

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/la_lakers.htm

:lmao

[Chinook]

That's clearly what they're banking on.

Yeah, they're hoping he can be their Danny Green. How times change.

[Mel_13]

Yeah, they're hoping he can be their Danny Green. How times change.

They do. Thabo was so much better than Danny in the 2012 WCF and so much worse in 2014.

[Emperor]

Now i'm hoping Lakers/OKC do pull a S&T with Gasol for Jackson/Perkins. In one summer they would of lost 3 past Spurs killers, Fisher, Reggie Thabo.

[Splits]

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/la_lakers.htm

:lmao

:lol :rollin :lol

[LakerHater]

Can see Gasol choosing Knicks cuza Phil Jackson, Melo & Jose Calderon!

[MarCowMar]

Kobe knows that Melo won't choose the Lakers, doesn't want to share the blame for the failed pitch.

If the Lakers are smart they'll keep Kobe the hell away from Melo so he doesn't blow their recruiting chances with his rotten personality.

[LakerHater]

Dirk & Mavs agree on a 3 yr deal

[Malik Hairston]

:lol it's pretty evident that Kobe doesn't actually want Carmelo, tbh..

Kobe only cares about the all-time scoring record, at this point, he won't want to share the ball with another top-tier usage player..

[Mal]

:lol it's pretty evident that Kobe doesn't actually want Carmelo, tbh..

Kobe only cares about the all-time scoring record, at this point, he won't want to share the ball with another top-tier usage player..

He`s not stupid. Melo would draw atention. Kirby cant play 1 on 5 basketball anymore. He probably will have problems with 1 on 1 game.

[benefactor]

Can see Gasol choosing Knicks cuza Phil Jackson, Melo & Jose Calderon!
Make sense...plus playing in the East where the competition is easier.

[Richie]

Thabo looked done in the WCF. Some mediocre players are really getting paid. Too much money chasing too little talent.

$12m is a lot for a player coming off such a poor season, but I think Sefolosha still has something left. I'd happily have taken him at $2m-$3m per if we aren't worrying about free agent cap space.

[tholdren]

Dallas and Dirk 3 years 30ish mil

[LakerHater]

484840010814722049

[Mr Bones]

Have to admit-- if the Knicks wind up getting Melo to return because Gasol is also willing to join them and play with his friend Jose Calderon, that would be some pretty impressive work by Phil Jackson...

[emanueldavidginobili]

Lakers will offer Melo 4 years 95 mil

[tholdren]

Lakers will offer Melo 4 years 95 mil
I only hope that you are correct, and he accepts.

[emanueldavidginobili]

@SportsCenter: THIS JUST IN: Lakers will offer Carmelo Anthony a max four-year, $95 million contract. (via rAmonashelburne) http://t.co/jvB1wIJT3X

[emanueldavidginobili]

I'm guessing that means Pau is definitely gone

[emanueldavidginobili]

@ESPNSteinLine: ESPN sources say reps from Cavs, Suns, Rockets and Mavs have all met with agent Rich Paul in Cleveland while LeBron has been on vacation

[Seventyniner]

I'm guessing that means Pau is definitely gone

If Pau is supposedly willing to play with Melo and the Knicks for $3.2M per season, why would he not be willing to play with Melo and the Lakers for a lot more money? Is Kobe that bad, or would the Lakers have to renounce Gasol to get enough cap space for Melo?

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojiYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojiYahooNBA)
Follow (https://twitter.com/WojiYahooNBA)
The Miami Heat have reached out to Yao Ming about coming out of retirement, Y! Sports has learned.

[Ron Swanson]

:lol

That fake Woj account has been busy.

[Seventyniner]

:lol

That fake Woj account has been busy.

That last one was different. The real Woj is @WojYahooNBA, the first fake was @WojoYahooNBA, and this fake is @WojiYahooNBA.

[Aztecfan03]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojiYahooNBA (https://twitter.com/WojiYahooNBA)
Follow (https://twitter.com/WojiYahooNBA)
The Miami Heat have reached out to Yao Ming about coming out of retirement, Y! Sports has learned.


Aww a different fake Woj account.

[Aztecfan03]

484810115196145665

:lol Sixers. This is the fake account btw.

[Russ]

484810115196145665

:lol Sixers. This is the fake account btw.

The local ESPN radio guys in LA (Mason & Ireland) got duped by this fakery.

They reported that Woj tweeted LeBron had informed the Heat that he would not be resigning.

About thirty seconds later they realized and apologized . . .

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Chris Kaman has reached agreement on a two-year, $10M deal with Portland, league source tells Yahoo Sports.

[TheDarkSide.]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Chris Kaman has reached agreement on a two-year, $10M deal with Portland, league source tells Yahoo Sports.



Glad that puts away the Boris interest

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)The second year of Kaman's deal is a partial guarantee, source tells Yahoo Sports.

[Dverde]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Chris Kaman has reached agreement on a two-year, $10M deal with Portland, league source tells Yahoo Sports.


Glad they didn't get a stretch 4 like McRoberts, Frye, or Diaw. I think this is a horrible move.

[xmas1997]

Glad they didn't get a stretch 4 like McRoberts, Frye, or Diaw. I think this is a horrible move.

I would love to have either McRoberts or Frye.
Hopefully Diaw signs soon.

[Spurs da champs]

Glad they didn't get a stretch 4 like McRoberts, Frye, or Diaw. I think this is a horrible move.
I agree. I'm amazed that Kaman still gets contracts, the guy just shits the bed everywhere there are expectations.

[MeloHype]

484810115196145665

:lol Sixers. This is the fake account btw.sixers were listed cause Embiid has been begging for lebron

[Mr. Body]

Glad they didn't get a stretch 4 like McRoberts, Frye, or Diaw. I think this is a horrible move.

Uh... they have the best Stretch 4 in the game.

[LakerHater]

Kupchak Flying To Cleveland To Meet With LeBron's Agent (http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/234121/Kupchak-Flying-To-Cleveland-To-Meet-With-LeBrons-Agent)

[LakerHater]

Report: Carmelo Anthony wants to talk with Pau Gasol about playing for Knicks (http://www.si.com/nba/2014/07/03/carmelo-anthony-pau-gasol-knicks-free-agency)

[Chinook]

Uh... they have the best Stretch 4 in the game.

The best stretch-four in the game is on the outs in SA.

[Chinook]

If Robinson learns how to shoot, he'll be a really good four. If not, he and Kaman are going to be poor.

[TheGoldStandard]

If Robinson learns how to shoot, he'll be a really good four. If not, he and Kaman are going to be poor.

they don't develop players in portland.

[Mr. Body]

The best stretch-four in the game is on the outs in SA.

No, the best stretch 4 is probably Dirk Nowitzki, maybe surpassed by Lemarcus Aldridge.

[Obstructed_View]

The best stretch-four in the game is on the outs in SA.

Not sure if serious. The best stretch four in San Antonio would be the third best stretch four in Texas, right?

[Mr Bones]

I don't get Portland signing Kaman, but I like it. It means they most likely don't make a run at either Diaw or McRoberts.

[Chinook]

No, the best stretch 4 is probably Dirk Nowitzki, maybe surpassed by Lemarcus Aldridge.


Not sure if serious. The best stretch four in San Antonio would be the third best stretch four in Texas, right?

Neither Dirk nor especially Aldridge is a stretch-four. I'm surprised I have to actually say that.

[NASpurs]

Neither Dirk nor especially Aldridge is a stretch-four. I'm surprised I have to actually say that.

The Red Mamba!

[Obstructed_View]

Neither Dirk nor especially Aldridge is a stretch-four. I'm surprised I have to actually say that.

Who are you talking about being on the outs with San Antonio then? Since you think that the guy who has basically defined the prototypical stretch four in the NBA for the last 15 years isn't a stretch four, I'm now quite interested in your answer.

[Malik Hairston]

IMO, a stretch 4 is somebody that possesses perimeter skills in addition to his size..Dirk and Aldridge have perimeter shooting ability, but it's not like either of them have ball-handling skills or passing skills, tbh..I don't think that being able to shoot really well from outside makes you a "stretch 4"..

They're just PFs with really good jump shots..

Excluding the new breed of "small ball 4s" like Lebron, Durant, Leonard, etc, I'd say the best "stretch 4s" in recent memory are Diaw and Odom, off the top of my head..

[Chinook]

Who are you talking about being on the outs with San Antonio then? Since you think that the guy who has basically defined the prototypical stretch four in the NBA for the last 15 years isn't a stretch four, I'm now quite interested in your answer.

Dirk isn't a stretch-four. He hasn't defined that role at all. In fact, no first option can be considered a stretch-four, since they aren't actually stretching a defense while they're playing. Could Dirk play that role on another team? Maybe. But he has never played that role before. Aldridge is a career-21-percent shooter from outside. He's not a stretch-four at all. Bonner has shot 44 percent from three over the past four years. That's why he's the best.

[Chinook]

IMO, a stretch 4 is somebody that possesses perimeter skills in addition to his size..Dirk and Aldridge have perimeter shooting ability, but it's not like either of them have ball-handling skills or passing skills, tbh..I don't think that being able to shoot really well from outside makes you a "stretch 4"..

They're just PFs with really good jump shots..

Excluding the new breed of "small ball 4s" like Lebron, Durant, Leonard, etc, I'd say the best "stretch 4s" in recent memory are Diaw and Odom, off the top of my head..

Come on. You know Bonner and Ryan Anderson are the best stretch-fours in the league. There are much more-complete fours like Odom and Diaw, but those guys aren't the floor-spacers Matt is.

[LakerHater]

484921724593770496
484922894464856064

[objective]

That Kaman deal is questionable, but it makes me happy as a spurs fan.

I'm glad they didn't throw money at a guy who performed against their team in the playoffs - BAYNES.

Toss 3+ million a year his way and I doubt the spurs match. Baynes even though a gamble is on the upswing and has performed in the playoffs when asked over the past 2 years.

[TheGoldStandard]

That Kaman deal is questionable, but it makes me happy as a spurs fan.

I'm glad they didn't throw money at a guy who performed against their team in the playoffs - BAYNES.

Toss 3+ million a year his way and I doubt the spurs match. Baynes even though a gamble is on the upswing and has performed in the playoffs when asked over the past 2 years.

Terry Stotts wouldn't know what to do with him

[TheGoldStandard]

484921724593770496
484922894464856064

Rockets better let Isaiah Canaan know they're going to use his #1 jersey and paint over the Melo one.

[Dex]

484840010814722049

I like Dirk. Dirks good people.

Too bad he got stuck on the fucking Dallas Mavericks.

[Obstructed_View]

Dirk isn't a stretch-four. He hasn't defined that role at all. In fact, no first option can be considered a stretch-four, since they aren't actually stretching a defense while they're playing. Could Dirk play that role on another team? Maybe. But he has never played that role before. Aldridge is a career-21-percent shooter from outside. He's not a stretch-four at all. Bonner has shot 44 percent from three over the past four years. That's why he's the best.

That's so wrong on so many levels I don't even have the heart to laugh at you. A stretch four is a power forward who shoots from outside. Power forwards historically were inside players. When the three point line came in, you had a couple of guys like Sam Perkins who could hit three pointers, but Dirk is the best shooting power forward ever, completely redefined what could be done from that position, and I'm unsure how there's even any discussion about that. It doesn't matter if they are the first option, there are four other guys on the team to stretch the floor for. And again, Matt Bonner is probably the second best stretch four on his own team. The fact that he's completely inept at all things not involving shooting from 24 feet away don't make him better at his position or his role. Parsons and Dirk are just miles better than he is.

[Obstructed_View]

I like Dirk. Dirks good people.

Too bad he got stuck on the fucking Dallas Mavericks.

Wasn't his fault Mark Cuban picked him. /sarc

[DPG21920]

Bosh on HOU would be pretty incredible IMO...

[apalisoc_9]

I've always thought that a stretch 4 is someone that could take the opposing 4 out of the paint...I think of Bonner, Dirk on his younger days when he was more trigger happy with the three, Ryan Anderson.

If my memory serves my right, Anyone that can shoot the three ball at a certain percentage was considered a stretch 4..Initially that's what people considered a stretch 4..Aldrige is not a stretch 4..

Perhaps the strecth 4 in today's game is starting to develop a new meaning with the likes of Lebron, Leonard, Durant all playing at the 4 and all with a certain set of skill...

[Robz4000]

Bosh on HOU would be pretty incredible IMO...

Thankfully McFail would still be their coach...

[Splits]

That Kaman deal is questionable, but it makes me happy as a spurs fan.

I'm glad they didn't throw money at a guy who performed against their team in the playoffs - BAYNES.

Toss 3+ million a year his way and I doubt the spurs match. Baynes even though a gamble is on the upswing and has performed in the playoffs when asked over the past 2 years.

:lol nobody is going to offer Baynes anything. Any team could have had him for vet minimum 18 months ago and since then he's barely done anything but play garbage minutes. Don't get me wrong, I think he has upside and Spurs should keep him, but he's on the lowest end of the radar of other teams in the FA market right now.

[palangi]

Bosh on HOU would be pretty incredible IMO...
Why? They already have Bosh in Terrence jones. Both are left handed stretch 4's.

[-21-]

484927422912270337

[Chinook]

That's so wrong on so many levels I don't even have the heart to laugh at you. A stretch four is a power forward who shoots from outside. Power forwards historically were inside players. When the three point line came in, you had a couple of guys like Sam Perkins who could hit three pointers, but Dirk is the best shooting power forward ever, completely redefined what could be done from that position, and I'm unsure how there's even any discussion about that. It doesn't matter if they are the first option, there are four other guys on the team to stretch the floor for. And again, Matt Bonner is probably the second best stretch four on his own team. The fact that he's completely inept at all things not involving shooting from 24 feet away don't make him better at his position or his role. Parsons and Dirk are just miles better than he is.

Wait, you think Parsons plays the four, and you're trying to laugh at me?

A stretch-four is called such because he stretches the defense. Dirk does not stretch the defense, since he's the first option. His man isn't going to leave him to help on someone else. Also, Dirk doesn't really spot up (once again because he's the focal point of the offense), so he's rarely just sitting behind the line. Instead, he's been a mid-post player his whole career, the best ever in that regard. But he's never stretched the floor. Despite the fact that he can shoot the three. It's just like with Curry in Golden State.

Bonner's entire value to an offense is stretching the floor. He's absolutely elite at this, which is why he was the plus-minus king for all those years. In fact, it was Bonner who helped highlight the importance of stretch-fours in today's league. The Heat had RaShard Lewis on the floor to be their Bonner, not to be their Dirk. They don't even use Bosh as their Dirk, and he actually has enough talent to do so. He was another Bonner.

[LakerHater]

Knicks extend verbal max offer for 5 years, $129 million to Carmelo Anthony

[timtonymanu]

Knicks extend verbal max offer for 5 years, $129 million to Carmelo Anthony

:lol Jesus.

[Obstructed_View]

Wait, you think Parsons plays the four, and you're trying to laugh at me?
He plays their stretch four when they need one. Sorry if you don't watch them play, but when the Rockets have Howard, Parsons and three guards, what position is he playing? He's the only tall guy who shoots threes on the team.


A stretch-four is called such because he stretches the defense.
You can't stretch the defense if you don't shoot from outside.

Seriously, I'm not sure why I'm bothering with this. Go fucking Google the position. There are far more mentions of LaMarcus Aldridge and Chandler Parsons as a stretch 4 than there are of Matt Bonner.

BTW, if Matt Bonner is such a fucking fabulous stretch 4, why is it that the Spurs didn't sniff a title when he was in the rotation, but they suddenly started making it to the finals when he sat on the bench?

[Chinook]

He plays their stretch four when they need one. Sorry if you don't watch them play, but when the Rockets have Howard, Parsons and three guards, what position is he playing? He's the only tall guy who shoots threes on the team.


You can't stretch the defense if you don't shoot from outside.

Seriously, I'm not sure why I'm bothering with this. Go fucking Google the position. There are far more mentions of LaMarcus Aldridge and Chandler Parsons as a stretch 4 than there are of Matt Bonner.

BTW, if Matt Bonner is such a fucking fabulous stretch 4, why is it that the Spurs didn't sniff a title when he was in the rotation, but they suddenly started making it to the finals when he sat on the bench?

No. Parsons plays the four when Houston goes small, which is entirely different. All of the Rockets' starting PFs could shoot, going back to Patrick Patterson. There's a major differencd between a player like Parsons and one like Bonner. Chandler can't guard legit bigs, especially in the post. Bonner can.

The fact that you're still bringing up Aldridge is insane. He's shot 21 percent from three his whole career. He's not even in the debate.

Your last argument is the worst, seeing as the Spurs inserted Bonner during the WCF precisely to stretch the floor and take Ibaka out of his comfort zone. Matt's playoffs were a testament to the real value of a stretch-four, as Antic's were a testament to how valuable stretch-fives can be.

[FireMicoHalili]

He plays their stretch four when they need one. Sorry if you don't watch them play, but when the Rockets have Howard, Parsons and three guards, what position is he playing? He's the only tall guy who shoots threes on the team.


You can't stretch the defense if you don't shoot from outside.

Seriously, I'm not sure why I'm bothering with this. Go fucking Google the position. There are far more mentions of LaMarcus Aldridge and Chandler Parsons as a stretch 4 than there are of Matt Bonner.

BTW, if Matt Bonner is such a fucking fabulous stretch 4, why is it that the Spurs didn't sniff a title when he was in the rotation, but they suddenly started making it to the finals when he sat on the bench?
Lol @ trying to prove a causation between Bonner in/out in the rotation and winning a title. Googled "stretch four", only one mention of Chandler Parsons as a stretch four, and he's mentioned in the same breath as Matt Bonner (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24088180/stretch-4s-in-the-nba-the-balance-between-stretching-and-defense). No truth as to the claim Aldridge and Parsons are mentioned more as stretch fours more than Matt Bonner. CBS article just provides Parsons provides good shooting and good defense while Bonner provides good spacing albeit a negative in defense. Aldridge gets a mention twice (http://thejumpshot.com/2012/12/22/the-stretch-four/), mentioned with Bonner here (http://hoopshabit.com/2013/01/13/nba-ryan-anderson-and-the-evolution-of-the-stretch-four/). If you're looking for proof Bonner contributed to this year's title drive, don't look further than this (http://www.poundingtherock.com/2014/5/30/5765416/nba-playoffs-spurs-hold-serve-stretch-four-ibaka-thunder).

I agree with Obstructed_View as to the definition of a stretch four. Here's Wikipedia's
"The Stretch Four is a term used in basketball to describe a player who plays the power forward position, but has skills outside those normally associated with the position. Power forwards (PF's) predominantly play close to the basket, using their size and strength to provide interior defense, rebounding, and scoring close to the basket. A stretch four is a player that is of power forward size, and usually guards other power forwards. The differences come largely on the offensive end: stretch fours generally have superior ball-handling, passing, and especially shooting skills. This allows them to "stretch" the opponent's defense, creating more driving lanes for guards and more post spacing for centers. Rashard Lewis of the NBA's Miami Heat, Ryan Anderson of the New Orleans Pelicans and Dirk Nowitzki are often characterized as a stretch four—Rashard was originally a small forward, but after his arrival in Orlando from Seattle, he played mostly at the power forward position."
Sorry if there wasn't anything more academic, but you can probably rely on SB Nation (http://www.sbnation.com/2013/3/14/4100262/nba-power-fowards-three-point-shooters-cliff-robinson). To limit stretch fours as plodding PFs who jack up threes is too simplistic a view.

As to Chinook's claim Bonner is the best stretch-four in Texas, there should at least be more proof than Bonner's shooting percentages, unless of course you were trying to be funny.

[Chinook]

As to Chinook's claim Bonner is the best stretch-four in Texas, there should at least be more proof than Bonner's shooting percentages, unless of course you were trying to be funny.

Matt being the plus-minus king isn't good enough to show how big of an impact he has just by being on the court?

Anyway, I read that Wiki article after O_V suggested I look it up. It's not cited, so it's just someone's opinion. Even so, it emphasizes both three-point shooting (taking LA and Love out of the debate) and positional defense (taking out Parsons and other small-ball fours).

Dirk could be stretch-four skill-wise, but he isn't one functionally, because he's not spacing the floor for anyone. Bosh is a stretch-four now because of his role with the Heat. But he wasn't one before he changed his game to move outside.

[FireMicoHalili]

Matt being the plus-minus king isn't good enough to show how big of an impact he has just by being on the court?
:lol

[Chinook]

:lol

You laugh, but it's not a coincidence. Floor-spacing is that important. Ask Ibaka.

[BillMc]

I like Dirk. Dirks good people.

Too bad he got stuck on the fucking Dallas Mavericks.

This. Cuban dismantled their (admittedly old) title team to chase dream free agents that will never come, and looks like they're going to waste Dirk's last good years. A shame. He deserves better.

[FireMicoHalili]

You laugh, but it's not a coincidence. Floor-spacing is that important. Ask Ibaka.
Oh lol you weren't kidding. Arguing spacing with Ibaka is different from arguing Bonner is the best stretch four in terms of APM, but you knew that already. I agree Bonner helped win by keeping Ibaka away from the basket; this is why stretch fours are important on the defensive end, bec they draw out prime post defenders out to the perimeter where they are less effective, but again, everyone knows that. I don't need to cite anything to buttress that claim.

As to your argument of +/- being seriously considered, I suggest reading the following: 82games (http://www.82games.com/ilardi1.htm) where it says small sample sizes and fewer minutes for players to draw APM from are shaky at best; Ultiworld (http://ultiworld.com/2013/08/16/the-perils-of-plus-minus/) which says +/- should be taken in conjunction with other stats to gauge a player's overall efficiency; a Berkeley paper (http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Minus-for-Basketball-Analysis.pdf) which also suggests looking into other box score statistics aside from +/- to determine efficiency; and this wonderful piece from Zach Lowe questioning the overall integrity of singling out +/- to determine how good a player is (http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/03/plusminus-in-the-n-b-a-a-plus-or-minus/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0). Not an opinion anymore, I hope.

You say Dirk is not a stretch four, Phil Watson says otherwise (http://hoopshabit.com/2013/01/13/nba-ryan-anderson-and-the-evolution-of-the-stretch-four/), saying he currently is the best. I mean, you did discredit Wikipedia saying it is an opinion, and Watson has been a sportswriter for years, as compared to an anonymous Internet forum poster who's had a thousand posts. Being a stretch four doesn't mean you necessarily have to stretch for another big man or another player, just the fact you provide space for other players to operate in, keep the defense loose. As far as I know, Nowitzki frees up the lane in case Ellis wants to get to the cup, so there's a player he's spacing the floor for.

[Baam]

:sleep Everyone is free to have their own definition of the stretch 4 tbh...

I get where Chinook is coming from even tho I'm not sure I agree completely, calling Dirk a stretch 4 is kinda like calling Paul George a 3 & D player... He does 3 & D but he does more than that so nobody is calling him a 3 & D player, it's reserved for role players like Green and Ariza... Dirk does much more than shooting 3s, actually he has been better when he has limited the number of 3s he'd take...

[FireMicoHalili]

:sleep Everyone is free to have their own definition of the stretch 4 tbh...

I get where Chinook is coming from even tho I'm not sure I agree completely, calling Dirk a stretch 4 is kinda like calling Paul George a 3 & D player... He does 3 & D but he does more than that so nobody is calling him a 3 & D player, it's reserved for role players like Green and Ariza... Dirk does much more than shooting 3s, actually he has been better when he has limited the number of 3s he'd take...
Ohhhh stretch fours and 3&D titles can't be handed out to star players, just role players. Didn't know we had to restrict them to that. Got the memo, thanks. And geez yeah probably the number of three-pointers is the perfect parameter to gauge whether a big man is a stretch-four. Midrange jumpers obviously don't count because they don't provide, like, I don't know, floor spacing or whatever.

[Baam]

Like I said everyone is free to have their own definition, I do think that stretch 4 is lot more open to interpretation than 3 & D, personally I don't care enough to go back and forth.

[FireMicoHalili]

Ahh nothing like irrational sports discussions, what a way to live life

[jermaine]

Knicks extend verbal max offer for 5 years, $129 million to Carmelo Anthony

These owners are pathetic! No wonder players be drama queens. Melo aint brought one team a championship an they wanna pay him that much! Everyone thats getting signed makes more than Spurs players but the Spurs are the champs! I use tp wonder how teams suck so bad for yrs! This is a perfect example! Signing the "regular season" niggas to major deals.

[Obstructed_View]

Ahh nothing like irrational sports discussions, what a way to live life

Dude, if we're going to be spending time on a sports message board, aren't we SUPPOSED to be arguing about shit like this? :lol

[FireMicoHalili]

Dude, if we're going to be spending time on a sports message board, aren't we SUPPOSED to be arguing about shit like this? :lol
Well, if you put it that way, (1) I guess there isn't any way anyone puts their point across because everyone is both right and wrong; (2) there was no point in you trying to defend your point if we're just going to dick around. Thanks for playing though, good on you.

[Mal]

Knicks extend verbal max offer for 5 years, $129 million to Carmelo Anthony

I thought Phil was reasonable.

[TheCerebral1]

Ed Davis anyone? He'd be an interesting guy to add. Then we can waive the fuck out of Ayres?

[xmas1997]

It's great when you have debates amid the discussions on here as long as no one takes it into the troll category and starts childishly cussing and name calling. That is what trolls do as well as ruining and sidetracking the thread topic, lie to get your goat or make obvious false accusations to try to get you to get upset and melt down and make an utter fool of yourself.
This is not a complaint in any way whatsoever, it is however an indictment and statement of fact of trolling activities in general.
Good insightful basketball discussions and debates however should be encouraged on here. That is how we learn, shape, and change our opinions. No one, no matter how knowledgeable knows everything.
Trolls sometimes make their way into this forum, but they usually stay down below thankfully, and they will only ultimately make total fools of themselves if you let them.
I don't think one should ever take good discussions and debates personally. Nor do I take trolls personally regardless of what they would have anyone believe to the contrary, yet lately I do bash the trolls when they come forward. Some would say that is trolling too. I disagree, it is a matter of opinion. :lol
IMHO that is what we should all be doing as we get and learn information Spurs and basketball related.
Just my two cents worth.
:lobt2:
:flag:

[tholdren]

It's great when you have debates amid the discussions on here as long as no one takes it into the troll category and starts childishly cussing and name calling. That is what trolls do as well as ruining and sidetracking the thread topic, lie to get your goat or make obvious false accusations to try to get you to get upset and melt down and make an utter fool of yourself.
This is not a complaint in any way whatsoever, it is however an indictment and statement of fact of trolling activities in general.
Good insightful basketball discussions and debates however should be encouraged on here. That is how we learn, shape, and change our opinions. No one, no matter how knowledgeable knows everything.
Trolls sometimes make their way into this forum, but they usually stay down below thankfully, and they will only ultimately make total fools of themselves if you let them.
I don't think one should ever take good discussions and debates personally. Nor do I take trolls personally regardless of what they would have anyone believe to the contrary, yet lately I do bash the trolls when they come forward. Some would say that is trolling too. I disagree, it is a matter of opinion. :lol
IMHO that is what we should all be doing as we get and learn information Spurs and basketball related.
Just my two cents worth.
:lobt2:
:flag:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DksSPZTZES0&feature=kp

You da real MVP Xmas

[ace3g]

NBA on ESPN @ESPNNBA
(https://twitter.com/ESPNNBA)Sources: Bulls trying to add Euro star Nikola Mirotic -- es.pn/VmERSK (http://t.co/NaBz31Cgbt)

[anakha]

...and Christmas troll just couldn't help himself.

At least he waited a week before bitching upstairs again.

[xmas1997]

...and Christmas troll just couldn't help himself.

At least he waited a week before bitching upstairs again.

The quote above is a typical example of what I was talking about, not bitching as he would have us believe.
Does not know the difference between a simple statement of fact, and bitching, no surprise here.
It won't be long before he makes a total fool of himself.
Makes one wonder though, why was he offended by a simple statement of fact that he had to make a baseless false accusation, and name calling?
Hm?
I caution him, this is a good informative thread that does not need him to ruin it.
'nuff said.

[anakha]

Getting things back on topic - an updated list of FAs to date:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/04/where-do-we-stand-with-nbas-top-50-free-agents-an-update/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Huh. You'd think Gasol would rank above Hayward on that list.

[anakha]

The quote above is a typical example of what I was talking about, not bitching as he would have us believe.
Does not know the difference between a simple statement of fact, and bitching, no surprise here.
It won't be long before he makes a total fool of himself.
Makes one wonder though, why was he offended by a simple statement of fact that he had to make a baseless false accusation, and name calling?
Hm?
I caution him, this is a good informative thread that does not need him to ruin it.
'nuff said.

Follow your own advice and focus on the topic, Christmas troll.

[xmas1997]

Follow your own advice and focus on the topic, Christmas troll.

Thanks for the info on unsigned free agents.
I was wondering about that and was about to ask ace3g.

And take your own advice and stay on topic. You do not need to advise me of anything, if you had read my post it pretty much says it all.
You do not need to make your lying accusations calling me a troll, doing the obvious trollish tactics of baiting me, and false accusations that I am bitching when even a reasonable teenager can see I am not.
Those comments could have been kept to yourself, but you just wanted to troll me for no good reason.
Proud of yourself?

[Mel_13]

And take your own advice and stay on topic.

Post #847 took this thread off topic.

[xmas1997]

I am still hoping, besides signing Diaw, that we get either McRoberts or Frye.

[anakha]

Thanks for the info on unsigned free agents.
I was wondering about that and was about to ask ace3g.

And take your own advice and stay on topic. You do not need to advise me of anything, if you had read my post it pretty much says it all.
You do not need to make your lying accusations calling me a troll, doing the obvious trollish tactics of baiting me, and false accusations that I am bitching when even a reasonable teenager can see I am not.
Those comments could have been kept to yourself, but you just wanted to troll me for no good reason.
Proud of yourself?

Takes the thread off topic by bitching about trolls, then accuses me of baiting him. :lmao

Now, to keep Christmas troll from derailing the thread - an article defending the Jrue Holiday trade:

http://www.thebirdwrites.com/2014/7/3/5869321/defending-the-jrue-holiday-a-year-later

Classifying Parker as a 'Borderline All-star' and Jennings as a 'good starter' renders his PG rankings completely useless. :lol

[xmas1997]

Post #847 took this thread off topic.

Riiight Mel. Your unbiased take is astounding.
If you will read back to posts 841, 842, and 843 you will see that I was replying to those to ward off any hard feelings getting out of hand.
Can you ever take a reasonable stand about anything?

[Mel_13]

Riiight Mel. Your unbiased take is astounding.
If you will read back to posts 841, 842, and 843 you will see that I was replying to those to ward off any hard feelings getting out of hand.
Can you ever take a reasonable stand about anything?

Wow. You really believe that.

[tholdren]

Mel what is your full name and address?

[xmas1997]

Takes the thread off topic by bitching about trolls, then accuses me of baiting him. :lmao

Now, to keep Christmas troll from derailing the thread - an article defending the Jrue Holiday trade:

http://www.thebirdwrites.com/2014/7/3/5869321/defending-the-jrue-holiday-a-year-later

Classifying Parker as a 'Borderline All-star' and Jennings as a 'good starter' renders his PG rankings completely useless. :lol

How about quit making baseless accusations about decent posters being trolls?
That would be a great start for you for a change.
I honestly doubt you can do this.

[xmas1997]

Wow. You really believe that.

Go read those posts, Mel.
Should I have quoted them first?

[Blizzardwizard]

Another thread derailed. Take it to PM's jeez :lol

[Mel_13]

Go read those posts, Mel.
Should I have quoted them first?

Three hours had gone by since the last of those posts. It was over. Your oft-spewed manifesto was not needed and drew the predictable response.

[xmas1997]

Here is another article on Diaw in general and the Spurs situation from SpursNation.

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2014/07/01/spurs-likely-headed-for-quiet-offseason-as-free-agency-opens/

Back on topic.

[anakha]

How about quit making baseless accusations about decent posters being trolls?
That would be a great start for you for a change.
I honestly doubt you can do this.

Christmas troll still bitching, still trying to derail this topic. :lmao

Couple of really minor tidbits:

485069757188964352

485056557713874947

[anakha]

An article on Lebron as the puppet master so far this offseason:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/24607285/as-lebrons-free-agent-frenzy-heats-up-he-remains-in-complete-control


Riley is now looking at the likes of Anthony Morrow, Vince Carter, Shawn Marion, and the faint hope of luring Gasol or Luol Deng at cut-rate deals.

If this is anything remotely close to true, I'm not sure the Heat are really addressing their biggest holes in the lineup.

[xmas1997]

An article on Lebron as the puppet master so far this offseason:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/24607285/as-lebrons-free-agent-frenzy-heats-up-he-remains-in-complete-control

Thanks again for digging up the great articles.

[xmas1997]

Only news I could find from Boris so far:


Boris DiawVerified account ‏@theborisdiaw

Happy 4th of July to all my American followers. Now let's have a good BBQ and go France at the World Cup. #riskeverything

[anakha]

Somebody toss this article at Cully and Kool downstairs. :lol

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/69387/tim-duncan-willing-to-pay-the-price-for-titles

[xmas1997]

More on Boris:



Boris Diaw will play for France's national team during the FIBA World Cup this summer.
Diaw is coming off a long year of basketball, having won the 2013 EuroBasket competition last summer before a long march to the Finals with San Antonio. He said he'll take "a couple of days to relax" before getting back out on the court, and his excellent play this year should set him up for a nice payday as an unrestricted free agent.


And:



The Blazers will reportedly pursue unrestricted free agent Boris Diaw.
Diaw's French buddy Nic Batum could factor in here, and the Blazers could have certainly used him with little depth in their frontcourt this past year. Talks are likely in the exploratory stage. Jul 1 - 3:04 AM
Source: Joe Freeman on Twitter

[DesignatedT]

With Tony not playing Boris is going to have to be even more aggressive offensively for France this summer. Hopefully it continues to translate over to the Spurs.

[Kindergarten Cop]

The Blazers will reportedly pursue unrestricted free agent Boris Diaw.
Diaw's French buddy Nic Batum could factor in here, and the Blazers could have certainly used him with little depth in their frontcourt this past year. Talks are likely in the exploratory stage. Jul 1 - 3:04 AM
Source: Joe Freeman on Twitter

I think the addition of Kaman probably takes them out of the running for Diaw.

[CGD]

It's hard to read Boris. Part of me thinks that he would take big money on a lower team with cap space now that he has his ring, which frankly I wouldnt fault him for. I could seem him going back to the Suns, for example, and being a nice addition for them with their young pieces and emerging coach.

Yes, Spurs have the edge over other elite teams limited to an MLE offers as they hold Boris's Larry Bird rights, but Boris is whimsical seeming. It doesn't help that Tony is only signed through next year so far.

I bet part of kicking the tires on Gasol is a back up plan to Boris leaving as much as it is adding both to the teams. I hope there are other contingency plans.

[Chinook]

Chicago signing Mirotic would be a sign they're out of the Melo sweepstakes, which is really a shame.

[xmas1997]

With Portland using their MLE to sign Kaman, I think they are out of the running for Diaw.

[Kindergarten Cop]

With Portland using their MLE to sign Kaman, I think they are out of the running for Diaw.

Okaaaaayyyy.

[Aztecfan03]

Okaaaaayyyy.
:lol. He is in his own little world.

[xmas1997]

Chicago signing Mirotic would be a sign they're out of the Melo sweepstakes, which is really a shame.

Would this also mean James too?

[ace3g]

Jeff Goodman @GoodmanESPN
(https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN)Patrick Patterson has agreed to a 3-year, $18 million deal with the Toronto Raptors, source told ESPN.

[LakerHater]

Manu said the Spurs need to bring back Boris Diaw & Matt Bonner to have their group ready for next year.

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
(https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA)Yahoo Sources: After meeting, Carmelo Anthony left comfortable with Phil Jackson's vision for shaping a contender. yhoo.it/1qvP2Ql (http://t.co/04mVtCSJO3)

[Knoxxx]

Portland never had a real shot at Diaw unless they declined their $5 million option on Robin Lopez. I dont see how they could have used anything other than their remaining $4 million in cap space to sign Kaman. From there they dont even have the MLE left to use.

[ace3g]

Eye on Basketball @EyeOnBasketball
(https://twitter.com/EyeOnBasketball)Report: Raptors 'closing in on' deal with Greivis Vasquez cbsprt.co/1qFV6Hw (http://t.co/tVqzYu6wiy)

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24607904/report-raptors-closing-in-on-deal-with-greivis-vasquez

[elemento]

Portland never had a real shot at Diaw unless they declined their $5 million option on Robin Lopez. I dont see how they could have used anything other than their remaining $4 million in cap space to sign Kaman. From there they dont even have the MLE left to use.

Portland had no cap space. They just used their MLE to sign Kaman. (they have 500k left). Lopez's contract became fully guaranteed last season. They had until July 2013 to waive him.
http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/blazers.jsp

[DPG21920]

Jeff Goodman @GoodmanESPN
(https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN)Patrick Patterson has agreed to a 3-year, $18 million deal with the Toronto Raptors, source told ESPN.



Wow. Wouldn't be surprised if Boris gets the same.

[anakha]

Wow. Wouldn't be surprised if Boris gets the same.

$6M per year? Weren't projections saying that Diaw was going to get more than that?

[TheGoldStandard]

6 mil a year would be great

[jyra]

485182773364158469

I would rather have RJ than him..

[objective]

Could do a lot worse than Marvin Williams.

[xmas1997]

Diaw looking for a 2 year 18 to 20 mil. deal according to KSAT-TV.
Had to edit it.

[Chinook]

Before drafting Anderson and guaranteeing Daye, I could see the Spurs using their MLE on a forward. Now, it seems almost impossible. In a weird turn of events, they actually need guard depth over wing/forward depth. First time I can remember that being the case.

[tholdren]

485182773364158469

I would rather have RJ than him..
blue font

[LakerHater]

485201459420463104

[LakerHater]

485182773364158469

I would rather have RJ than him..


blue fontprolly jus using us as leverage!

[T Park]

Hawes getting ALL the MLE.

[xmas1997]

Sorry, Diaw is looking for a 2 year deal for 18 to 20 mil, not 3 years.

[BatManu20]

I've been saying Marvin Williams would be a good signing for us for the past couple weeks. It's likely not happening but he's a good 3&D guy and just turned 28 iirc. Can play both the 3 and 4 in small ball. Would be a good fit imo.

[Richie]

Sorry, Diaw is looking for a 2 year deal for 18 to 20 mil, not 3 years.

Just get off the phone with him did you?

[Richie]

Spencer Hawes at the MLE is a great deal for the Clippers. Fantastic addition for them.

[xmas1997]

Just get off the phone with him did you?

:lmao Yeah.
No, saw it on KSAT-TV sports cast a 6pm.

[RD2191]

I don't think Diaw is worth 9-10 million.

[objective]

Very good signing for the clippers, they had zero bigs off the bench.

Re: diaw, I would have no problem paying him up to 10 or even 11 next year if there's a team option on year two or an unguaranteed second year. Heck, give him 12, just don't get stuck with an unmotivated Diaw making 7+ on a rebuilding team that doesn't have the big three.

[Ice009]

Where have you guys been? Boris Diaw looking for 2 years and 18-20M was already mentioned in another thread a couple of days ago. Wasn't sure how true it was though. It looks like that's what he wants.

If Tiago is making around 9M, why would Diaw want less?

[xmas1997]

Where have you guys been? Boris Diaw looking for 2 years and 18-20M was already mentioned in another thread a couple of days ago. Wasn't sure how true it was though. It looks like that's what he wants.

If Tiago is making around 9M, why would Diaw want less?

Makes sense to me.

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

IDK about Hawes. He's technically a floor stretching 5 but he's been on terrible teams his entire career and his numbers on those terrible teams aren't even good.

[Richie]

Where have you guys been? Boris Diaw looking for 2 years and 18-20M was already mentioned in another thread a couple of days ago. Wasn't sure how true it was though. It looks like that's what he wants.

If Tiago is making around 9M, why would Diaw want less?

Why is everyone bringing up Splitters contract? Tiago is every bit as important to the Spurs as Boris. Diaw wouldn't get to dominate teams like Oklahoma City if Tiago didn't get us past Dallas and Portland with his excellent defence on Nowitzki and Aldridge.

If anything, I think Tiago is more valuable because both are situational role players who excel against different teams, but Tiago takes around 700 of Duncans regular season minutes which allows he to play at a high level come June.

Not to mention the reason Splitter got that contract is because someone else was willing to pay that much. Diaw will have no such suitors.

[Ice009]

Why is everyone bringing up Splitters contract? Tiago is every bit as important to the Spurs as Boris. Diaw wouldn't get to dominate teams like Oklahoma City if Tiago didn't get us past Dallas and Portland with his excellent defence on Nowitzki and Aldridge.

If anything, I think Tiago is more valuable because both are situational role players who excel against different teams, but Tiago takes around 700 of Duncans regular season minutes which allows he to play at a high level come June.

Not to mention the reason Splitter got that contract is because someone else was willing to pay that much. Diaw will have no such suitors.

Didn't say Splitter wasn't important, but I don't see how you can say Diaw isn't as important as Splitter. It seems like you're trying to spin it and say he isn't. 6M isn't much for what Diaw did in the playoffs. If he had better stats, he could have been close to finals MVP. Splitter wasn't anywhere close to those levels. Diaw was huge in the biggest games in the playoffs. Road games against OKC and Miami. You can't seriously tell me that he wasn't as important as Splitter.

I think the minimum for him should be starting at 8M per season. If he signs for anything less, then I think he'd be doing to Spurs a favor. Unless the Spurs have some sort of plan for other free agents that they outline with Boris beforehand, and they can sell him on taking less for that plan to happen, I don't see why Boris would take less money. Not sure if you can even do anything like that though with the cap situation. Maybe someone else can chime in. Would we have anymore cap space than the MLE if Boris takes less?

[BackHome]

People don't understand that even decent centers get big bucks $$$$ ....Diaw is not a center......

[objective]

If some enterprising media member would ask Hawes about personal freedom and liberty with regards to Donald Sterling being forced to sell, I think there would be a possibility of something newsworthy happening.

[Knoxxx]

Where have you guys been? Boris Diaw looking for 2 years and 18-20M was already mentioned in another thread a couple of days ago. Wasn't sure how true it was though. It looks like that's what he wants.If Tiago is making around 9M, why would Diaw want less?Yes what fools we were for not paying credence to that unsubstantiated rumor!Diaw will get 3 for 20 and be happy with it!

[Richie]

Didn't say Splitter wasn't important, but I don't see how you can say Diaw isn't as important as Splitter. It seems like you're trying to spin it and say he isn't. 6M isn't much for what Diaw did in the playoffs. If he had better stats, he could have been close to finals MVP. Splitter wasn't anywhere close to those levels. Diaw was huge in the biggest games in the playoffs. Road games against OKC and Miami. You can't seriously tell me that he wasn't as important as Splitter.

I don't think Diaw is less valuable than Splitter, but I disagree with your assessment of the playoffs. Splitter was probably the MVP of the Dallas series, without him we probably get bounced in the first round. It just happens that Tiagos situational effectiveness came in the first and second rounds, and Diaws came in the Conference Finals and the Finals. It may sound strange, but I don't think the Conf. Finals and Finals were 'bigger' games for Diaw than Dallas and Portland were for Tiago.

I agree Diaw could have been Finals MVP, but that's just because of the opponent. If (hypothetically) the Dallas series was the Finals, Splitter could have been MVP.


I think the minimum for him should be starting at 8M per season. If he signs for anything less, then I think he'd be doing to Spurs a favor. Unless the Spurs have some sort of plan for other free agents that they outline with Boris beforehand, and they can sell him on taking less for that plan to happen, I don't see why Boris would take less money. Not sure if you can even do anything like that though with the cap situation. Maybe someone else can chime in. Would we have anymore cap space than the MLE if Boris takes less?

It's not about this year, it's about next years cap space. If Boris takes $9m as opposed to $5m, we are out of the running already for any top free agent next year. I also think the MLE is a good level for Boris simply because nobody else would pay him more, and as such $8m-$10m would be a massive overpay. No lottery team will want him because of his troubles in the past on bad teams and no contender has more than the MLE.

After writing my original post I had a think whether I actually really believed it, and I can honestly say if I could only keep one player between Splitter and Diaw, I'd keep Splitter.

[Ice009]

Yes what fools we were for not paying credence to that unsubstantiated rumor!Diaw will get 3 for 20 and be happy with it!

I would love to see what you guys do if your bosses offer you less money than other people that aren't anywhere near as good as you.

Most of you are a bunch of lowballers.

The only other reason to offer less might be for cap space next season, or the season after, but again, they'd have to outline some sort of plan with him if they're going to sell him on taking less.

[jhfenton]

I don't think Diaw is worth 9-10 million.

I agree. 3 years, $20MM is sort of what I've been expecting. Probably structured like Spitter's with a declining salary. Or maybe a 3rd year option, which then couldn't be less than the 2nd year.

[TheGreatYacht]

IDK about Hawes. He's technically a floor stretching 5 but he's been on terrible teams his entire career and his numbers on those terrible teams aren't even good.
You clearly don't have a fantasy league

[Brunodf]

What people dont get is: for this season perfomance Diaw deserved 8-10 mil/yr, but will he be able to perform as good in the next 2-3 seasons? If u pay him that much u are assuming that he will, and i am not sure if Diaw can do it...

[Aztecfan03]

Not to mention the reason Splitter got that contract is because someone else was willing to pay that much. Diaw will have no such suitors.

This is the main reason to me. And that Splitter seems a little more consistent since sometimes Diaw is too passive.

[Richie]

I would love to see what you guys do if your bosses offer you less money than other people that aren't anywhere near as good as you.

It's not about how good you are, how good others are or how much they are getting paid. It's about a market value, and Diaw isn't getting any more than MLE from any other contender, even though in a vacuum you're right and he is worth more. I'm not even sure how many legit contenders even have the MLE to spend considering Miami will be using it's cap space, Portland and Clippers just spent theirs, the full MLE would put both OKC and Indiana over the tax which neither may want to do.

[Chinook]

People overrate the hell out of Diaw. He was pretty bad on defense in each playoff round. It's not his fault against James, Dirk and Aldridge, but Caron Butler torched him for goodness sake. Splitter saves the Spurs defensively more than people can possibly understand (apparently).

Obviously, Boris is the best all-around offensive player on the team, a top-five in the league, really. When he plays to his potential, the Spurs are unbeatable on offense. But without Splitter, there would have been no Finals or WCF in which Diaw could have exploded. Give Boris his money, but don't think he should be seen as a bigger piece than Splitter.

On Hawes, he's awesome as a third big because he's an ultra-rare stretch-five. He can play with both Griffin and Jordan while allowing each to play in their comfort zones. Of course, such a move doesn't put them over the Spurs at all, but it does inch them closer to OKC.

[ironman2886]

People overrate the hell out of Diaw. He was pretty bad on defense in each playoff round. It's not his fault against James, Dirk and Aldridge, but Caron Butler torched him for goodness sake. Splitter saves the Spurs defensively more than people can possibly understand (apparently).

Obviously, Boris is the best all-around offensive player on the team, a top-five in the league, really. When he plays to his potential, the Spurs are unbeatable on offense. But without Splitter, there would have been no Finals or WCF in which Diaw could have exploded. Give Boris his money, but don't think he should be seen as a bigger piece than Splitter.

On Hawes, he's awesome as a third big because he's an ultra-rare stretch-five. He can play with both Griffin and Jordan while allowing each to play in their comfort zones. Of course, such a move doesn't put them over the Spurs at all, but it does inch them closer to OKC.

After watching Splitter defend and limit 2 of The best big men shooters(dirk/aldridge) in the league, I have to agree. Miami isn't really his series, but Splitter is just more valuable to a team. Diaw put the Spurs over the top though with his superb passing and offensive skills.

[LakerHater]

485220535471570944

[Baam]

Splitter is the one who is overrated... Bosh torched him like no other player was torched in that run... Vs Aldridge Diaw actually did pretty well, he was much better than Splitter at times... Diaw also hit the biggest shot of the Dallas series, his run shits on Splitter's, it's not even in the same ballpark.

[elemento]

Good addition by the Clips. If they can work in a S&T to keep the exception, that would be awesome for them. They could land both Hawes and Pierce.

[ducks]

He is bad in d

[AFBlue]

Would love Williams for the MLE, but obviously with those other teams in the mix the Spurs aren't likely real contenders to get him.

[MI21]

Damn, good signing for the Clippers.

There offense is going to be ridiculous next season.

[Nathan89]

Diaw was more important in the most important rounds of the playoffs vs the better teams. Too much credit is going to Splitter for stopping Dirk imo. Dirk has regressed and that task isn't as difficult as it previously was. While stopping Aldridge was impressive the Blazers as a whole are not as big of a threat as the teams Diaw performed against.

I would prefer Splitter being out for the playoffs over Diaw.

[Aztecfan03]

Diaw was more important in the most important rounds of the playoffs vs the better teams. Too much credit is going to Splitter for stopping Dirk imo. Dirk has regressed and that task isn't as difficult as it previously was. While stopping Aldridge was impressive the Blazers as a whole are not as big of a threat as the teams Diaw performed against.

I would prefer Splitter being out for the playoffs over Diaw.

OKC and Miami are probably about the only playoff teams where diaw is more important. If we had faced Clippers(we could have if LAC/OKC was fair) without Splitter we would have been dead in the water.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Boy, its Diaw vs Splitter now?

How many more mental asylum inmates have joined this forum now?

Idiots.

[Nathan89]

OKC and Miami are probably about the only playoff teams where diaw is more important. If we had faced Clippers(we could have if LAC/OKC was fair) without Splitter we would have been dead in the water.

No, Diaw can do well enough on Blake for us to beat the Clippers. They also have a sf that shot 31.7% from three(playoffs) so Kawhi could help other on defense when needed. They also have a center that shot 43% on fts in the playoffs. Why would we be "dead in the water" against that? Not to mention the non-aggressive star they have in CP3.

[Nathan89]

That was damn good pick by the Clippers. Blake has really improved his outside shot and with Hawes the paint should be wide open for Cp3.

[BackHome]

+1:toast

[Knoxxx]

This thread got lively! The key is we need Splitter and Diaw depending on the matchup to field a truly complete lineup. The only time I noticed Diaw playing "bad" on defense was against LeBron but I think we all liked what we saw from Splitter the first couple rounds. No way do we want Duncan chasing those perimeter bigs and that kept Diaw fresh the last couple rounds.

[mystargtr34]

The Spurs would regress significantly without either of Boris or Tiago.. they are both so unique in their own way that its almost impossible to separate them.

I think Boris deserves a 3-$22-24M deal.. and would be surprised if he settles for less.

[Anonymous Cowherd]

Boris would regress way more though. If you can name a team who will offer him the same, sure.

But surely he'd take any comparable offer from us before anyone else, and I don't see anyone else going upwards of $20m/3years

[xmas1997]

KSAT-TV reported he wanted 18 to 20mil for 2 years.

[Anonymous Cowherd]

And I don't see who else would pay that, and in that case why we should offer that.

[FireMicoHalili]

If Diaw's asking for $7-$10M...$7M seems fair but a higher price personally puts me in a quandary. McRoberts can be had for the MLE, or at least, intuitively. Bird rights enable the FO to sign Diaw at that high a price. Probably worth every penny, but he's making as much as Manu if that were to be the case.

[FireMicoHalili]

Just noticed the Heat still have viable options out there: Monroe, I. Thomas, Gasol, Stephenson, Turner, Ariza (shows up on contract years only), Nelson, Stuckey, Frye, Diaw, and Marvin Williams. They can also get bargains in Aminu, Barbosa, Udoh, Jason Smith, Brandon Rush, and the rest the Insider article listed as well.

If Baynes walks, I'm hoping Ayon takes his spot. Spurs were interested in him last year and he didn't get much of a chance in Atlanta,

[Knoxxx]

Diaw AND McRoberts anyone?

[xmas1997]

Diaw AND McRoberts anyone?

That would be nice, or Frye.

[tholdren]

That would be nice, or Frye.
Mcroberts over frye.... we already have tall, rail thin players who cant rebound or defend - Daye-Anderson-Bonner

Get McRoberts. Hustle-machine. Better shooter, younger, smarter. Role player for longer

[Seventyniner]

If Diaw gets 3 years, he'll be 35 by the end of the contract and probably not in line for another large contract. He might then be willing to take a decreasing deal, right? If it's only 2 years it will hardly matter though.

A 3-year $24M contract with maximum decreases would be $8,648,649/$8,000,000/$7,351,351.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Is Josh McRoberts actually decent now?

[tholdren]

Is Josh McRoberts actually decent now?
He's okay. Better than Frye, had a good playoff run, which will make him seem like he's better than he is. He's smart though, and younger than Frye, which is why I would prefer over the 2. He's not the first option, for me though.

I think right now, I would rather have Parsons, than anyone that MAY be available to us. Not saying he IS available to us, but rather him than Gasol.

[FireMicoHalili]

Is Josh McRoberts actually decent now?
Never hurts to read: http://projectspurs.com/2014-articles/report-mcroberts-draws-interest-from-spurs.html
You can personally compare stats via basketball-reference.com or read what raybies wrote, your work's cut out for you: http://spurshomer.blogspot.com/2014/06/if-they-leave-spurs-2014-free-agency.html

[Richie]

Diaw AND McRoberts anyone?

I'd take McRoberts, but not at the expense of cap space next year which I think is a high priority, as the Front Office apparently do too with most of our contracts due to expire next year and Splitters decreasing deal.

[Richie]

If Diaw gets 3 years, he'll be 35 by the end of the contract and probably not in line for another large contract. He might then be willing to take a decreasing deal, right? If it's only 2 years it will hardly matter though.

A 3-year $24M contract with maximum decreases would be $8,648,649/$8,000,000/$7,351,351.

I'd honestly rather give Diaw a 1 year, $12m contract than anything that costs more than MLE money for next summer.

Again I come back to the fact that no other contender can offer him more than the MLE, so paying significantly more than that for him is expensive. Considering we could likely bring in McRoberts, who can do 90% of what Diaw can do, below MLE money, I'm very wary of overpaying Boris.

I guess it comes down to what the front office see as more valuable, bringing back the same core to make another run or chasing a free agent next summer and giving us a chance of being a contender past the Duncan era. It's more likely the former but I'm not sure that's the best option.

[FireMicoHalili]

Again I come back to the fact that no other contender can offer him more than the MLE, so paying significantly more than that for him is expensive. Considering we could likely bring in McRoberts, who can do 90% of what Diaw can do, below MLE money, I'm very wary of overpaying Boris.
Hawks and Heat can still snatch him up for more than the MLE. Non-contenders such as the Suns and Lakers can make substantial offers more than the MLE as well. In theory, at least.

[Clipper Nation]

That was damn good pick by the Clippers. Blake has really improved his outside shot and with Hawes the paint should be wide open for Cp3.
Their passing skills will be even more important than their shooting, tbh.... get rid of Crawford and the ball movement should be fun to watch....

[100%duncan]

:lol I hope Holt is not as cheap as all you guys here :lol

10 mil a high price for Diaw :lol Splitter's getting paid the same and you could argue Diaw did more for us than Splits.

[LakerHater]

485475325183139840

[ace3g]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Mavericks & Devin Harris putting finishing touches today on expected three-year deal. Priority for Dallas especially after Calderon traded

[tholdren]

Marc Stein @ESPNSteinLine
(https://twitter.com/ESPNSteinLine)Mavericks & Devin Harris putting finishing touches today on expected three-year deal. Priority for Dallas especially after Calderon traded



Calderon is probably overrated, i think the mavs get the same out of harris, even if he is 1/4 of his former self.

[tdunk21]

485493503808385024

[Mr Bones]

I've been advocating from the start that McRoberts would be a perfect fit because he doesn't need to replace Diaw-- he's a Diawlike player who would allow the Spurs to always have a post big/passing, floor spreading big combo on the floor. McRoberts/Duncan or McRoberts/Splitter would work, and against certain line ups, a Diaw/McRoberts would work. A trio of Ginobili/Diaw/McRoberts would be one of the best ball movement combos in the NBA. For Coach Pop, who wants to rest Timmy as much as possible, there could conceivably be interchangeable combos that accomplish the same goal of spreading the floor and keeping the ball in constant motion. Having too many guys who want to score can sometimes be an issue, but having too many guys with excellent assist-to-turnover ratios (McRoberts and Boris were #1 and #3 respectively last year in this category for PFs) is a problem a coach wants to have.

[Mugen]

Bosh is a terrific fit in HOU, much better than Fatmelo. They'd be right up there w/ OKC in terms of matchup problems for SA. Thank goodness McHale should still be around.

[cd021]

Just noticed the Heat still have viable options out there: Monroe, I. Thomas, Gasol, Stephenson, Turner, Ariza (shows up on contract years only), Nelson, Stuckey, Frye, Diaw, and Marvin Williams. They can also get bargains in Aminu, Barbosa, Udoh, Jason Smith, Brandon Rush, and the rest the Insider article listed as well.

If Baynes walks, I'm hoping Ayon takes his spot. Spurs were interested in him last year and he didn't get much of a chance in Atlanta,
I heard that they were offering 6-8 million to Deng who is probably the 3rd best Sf on the market. I don't think that they will have enough to get any of the 1st 6 you mentioned ,save for Gasol and Turner.

[xmas1997]

I've been advocating from the start that McRoberts would be a perfect fit because he doesn't need to replace Diaw-- he's a Diawlike player who would allow the Spurs to always have a post big/passing, floor spreading big combo on the floor. McRoberts/Duncan or McRoberts/Splitter would work, and against certain line ups, a Diaw/McRoberts would work. A trio of Ginobili/Diaw/McRoberts would be one of the best ball movement combos in the NBA. For Coach Pop, who wants to rest Timmy as much as possible, there could conceivably be interchangeable combos that accomplish the same goal of spreading the floor and keeping the ball in constant motion. Having too many guys who want to score can sometimes be an issue, but having too many guys with excellent assist-to-turnover ratios (McRoberts and Boris were #1 and #3 respectively last year in this category for PFs) is a problem a coach wants to have.

Not only you, but also chinook and a couple of others. You all convinced me over taking Frye.

[cd021]

Calderon is probably overrated, i think the mavs get the same out of harris, even if he is 1/4 of his former self.

Caulderon is a great shooter and has a stellar career asts, to T.O ratio. Harris can probably get the job done but he was better off the bench IMO.

[cd021]

I've been advocating from the start that McRoberts would be a perfect fit because he doesn't need to replace Diaw-- he's a Diawlike player who would allow the Spurs to always have a post big/passing, floor spreading big combo on the floor. McRoberts/Duncan or McRoberts/Splitter would work, and against certain line ups, a Diaw/McRoberts would work. A trio of Ginobili/Diaw/McRoberts would be one of the best ball movement combos in the NBA. For Coach Pop, who wants to rest Timmy as much as possible, there could conceivably be interchangeable combos that accomplish the same goal of spreading the floor and keeping the ball in constant motion. Having too many guys who want to score can sometimes be an issue, but having too many guys with excellent assist-to-turnover ratios (McRoberts and Boris were #1 and #3 respectively last year in this category for PFs) is a problem a coach wants to have.

compelling case. How is his D?

[tholdren]

Caulderon is a great shooter and has a stellar career asts, to T.O ratio. Harris can probably get the job done but he was better off the bench IMO.

meh, last year was his lowest APG since his rookie season = 4.7... on his way down. Good ballhandler and low TOs, Ill give you that, but I think he's going to turn into a bring it down, pass it to the wing, and linger around the 3pt line. When PG's start doing that, it's over.

[cd021]

:lol I hope Holt is not as cheap as all you guys here :lol

10 mil a high price for Diaw :lol Splitter's getting paid the same and you could argue Diaw did more for us than Splits.

Age is a key difference. Splitter is 29 at a position where players players tend to peak around 30. Diaw is 32 and an nontraditional big man . He could probably get up to $15 million over the next two seasons but i wouldn't exceed $8 million. 3Y/18M is more ideal.

[Dverde]

I wouldn't go past 16M for two or 20M for three. If he can get better and wants the money...that is fine. I can respect that. This is his last big contract. Guy has a ring, I cant fault him for taking the money now.

[xmas1997]

18 to 20 mil. for two years isn't bad.

[ironman2886]

What the hell is taking Diaw so long?

[-21-]

I'm guessing Boris will get 3Y/$21M.

[Mel_13]

What the hell is taking Diaw so long?

He's either waiting for the big fish to find a home and hoping that some above-MLE money shakes loose, or his agent already has the parameters of an agreement with the Spurs and Boris is on vacation somewhere and they'll have an announcement in the next few days.

There's always been a lot of talk about how free agents won't come to San Antonio, but when is the last time that the Spurs lost a key player in free agency? Retaining Boris had to be organizational priority #1 for the summer. The team and the player are a perfect match for one another. There's no reason to believe that the two sides won't come to a mutually acceptable agreement before the end of the moratorium, if they haven't already.

[cjw]

Bosh is a terrific fit in HOU, much better than Fatmelo. They'd be right up there w/ OKC in terms of matchup problems for SA. Thank goodness McHale should still be around.

Someone out there better be gearing up to offer Parsons a big offer sheet, though the moratorium helps Morey get all his ducks in a row to be able to get other deals done before he'd have to match on Parsons. And to think all it takes is dumping Asik and Lin (I read that NO still needs to dump some salary to finalize the Asik deal).

[xmas1997]

He's either waiting for the big fish to find a home and hoping that some above-MLE money shakes loose, or his agent already has the parameters of an agreement with the Spurs and Boris is on vacation somewhere and they'll have an announcement in the next few days.

There's always been a lot of talk about how free agents won't come to San Antonio, but when is the last time that the Spurs lost a key player in free agency. Retaining Boris had to organizational priority #1 for the summer. The team and the player are a perfect match for one another. There's no reason to believe that the two sides won't come to a mutually acceptable agreement before the end of the moratorium, if they haven't already.

He has already tweeted a couple of times this week that he was on his way to France, going to play with his national team, and was in no hurry, just celebrating.

[Knoxxx]

Party on Boris just go easy on the big macs and vino we dont need you getting a gut or gout!

[Mel_13]

He has already tweeted a couple of times this week that he was on his way to France, going to play with his national team, and was in no hurry, just celebrating.

Thanks.

[Knoxxx]

Party on Boris just go easy on the big macs and vino we dont need you getting a gut or gout!

[Richie]

Lakers big players in the Memo market according to Simmons. Would be fantastic for the Spurs, no way Melo/Kobe duo makes the playoffs in the West

[Shastafarian]

Melo + Kobe take up what, $48 mil in cap space if the rumors on a max deal are true. :rollin

The coffin holding jerry buss must be in a perpetual spin.

[Mel_13]

Lakers big players in the Memo market according to Simmons. Would be fantastic for the Spurs, no way Melo/Kobe duo makes the playoffs in the West


Melo + Kobe take up what, $48 mil in cap space if the rumors on a max deal are true. :rollin

The coffin holding jerry buss must be in a perpetual spin.

I hope he picks the Lakers. Kobe/Melo/Nash taking up about 55M of a 63M cap. Plus, they'd have to renounce Pau and give up on potentially useful S&T scenarios.

[Shastafarian]

I forgot about Steve Nash :lol

http://images.onset.freedom.com/ocregister/gallery/mz45t9-b781245606z.120140108185747000g9e1hu1i2.2.jpg

[CGD]

OK I'm solid on McBob. Excellent passer, range, and testicular fortitude. If he signs I wouldn't be surprised if the spurs even retract Baynes QO.

[Splits]

The coffin holding jerry buss must be in a perpetual spin.

http://i2.minus.com/jLTjQRrpF6i3t.png

[Uriel]

I hope Melo chooses to sign with the Lakers, if only because it guarantees Gasol will remain in LA (and not OKC, where he could push the Thunder over the top).

Besides that, the sheer entertainment value of watching Kobe and Melo bicker at each other for possession of the ball would be priceless. :lol

[Mel_13]

I hope Melo chooses to sign with the Lakers, if only because it guarantees Gasol will remain in LA (and not OKC, where he could push the Thunder over the top).

Besides that, the sheer entertainment value of watching Kobe and Melo bicker at each other for possession of the ball would be priceless. :lol

If Melo signs for the max, then Gasol would have to take a huge pay cut to stay with the Lakers. Hardly guaranteed.

[tholdren]

Are there any site that actually updates FA moves and team salaries ASAP? I want to be able to see exactly who is left, previous contracts, and available team $?

[Mel_13]

Are there any site that actually updates FA moves and team salaries ASAP? I want to be able to see exactly who is left, previous contracts, and available team $?

The free agent signings announced so far won't be signed any earlier than July 11th and the precise cap and tax numbers won't be announced until the 9th or 10th. So, I don't think that anyone is updating payroll figures based on the news of the past few days.

These sites, however, are among several that can get you some of what you're looking for:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/transactions/free-agents

http://www.nba.com/freeagents/2014/

http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm (more current info)

http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/index.jsp (more expansive info and more reliable, IMO)

[tholdren]

The free agent signings announced so far won't be signed any earlier than July 11th and the precise cap and tax numbers won't be announced until the 9th or 10th. So, I don't think that anyone is updating payroll figures based on the news of the past few days.

These sites, however, are among several that can get you some of what you're looking for:

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/transactions/free-agents

http://www.nba.com/freeagents/2014/

http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm (more current info)

http://data.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/index.jsp (more expansive info and more reliable, IMO)

per usual, you the man, thanks mel

[Vic Petro]

485864196823719936

[eDizzle20]

485864196823719936

His underwhelming numbers in the regular season and his lack of confidence in the playoffs did him in. He's 7'2" and decent defender, but teams will be reluctant to take the remaining years on his contract.

[Chinook]

Wouldn't want him. He'd be a poor compliment to either Duncan or Splitter. He'd be well behind even Marc Gasol in my book.

[Baam]

Id do it for Splitter and Beli tbh... His contract fits the "new window" perfectly so the risk wouldn't be that big...

[Baam]

Failed my edit

[Floyd Pacquiao]

Boris is back, 3yrs 22 mill

[DesignatedT]

Bobobobobobobooooooooooooooooo yeahhhhhhhhh

[Floyd Pacquiao]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/smilies/applause.gif good shit pop/RC

[DesignatedT]

Another great contract for the spurs, partially guaranteed on final year.

[look_at_g_shred]

What does that mean for our salary cap? How much do we have to spend now? Or has it always been the MLE?

[Mel_13]

What does that mean for our salary cap? How much do we have to spend now? Or has it always been the MLE?

No cap space. MLE, BAE, and vet minimum exceptions.

[ducks]

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA · 23m
Teams awaiting direction today from agent if Miami's LeBron James will proceed to free agent meetings this week, league sources tell Yahoo.

[DPG21920]

Jeff Goodman @GoodmanESPN
(https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN)Patrick Patterson has agreed to a 3-year, $18 million deal with the Toronto Raptors, source told ESPN.




Wow. Wouldn't be surprised if Boris gets the same.


Well in terms of years and total actual guaranteed money, Boris got basically the same.

[emanueldavidginobili]

The Hawks have signed Kent Bazemore to a 2 year deal, worth $6 million.

[emanueldavidginobili]

The Clippers have signed Jordan Farmar to a 2 year deal, worth $4.2 million.

[Mel_13]

The Hawks have signed Kent Bazemore to a 2 year deal, worth $6 million.

Nice paycheck for a guy who never made more than the minimum and suffered a season-ending injury.

[Mugen]

That Bazemore deal makes zero sense after handing out 4mil/year to Thabo. Does Ferry just forget everything he learned from Pop/RC every time he leaves SA tbh?