Official Hurricane Katrina Thread

[Vashner]

In some was however, besides the downtown gaffe...

A LOT of people where saved... .. more reliable vehicles that didn't break down..(on the initial rush out of town)

We are talking about the FIRST evacuation of a major US city since the civil war...

There was one guy, an aircraft fuel operator that stayed at one of the small airfields.

He basically was there the at dawn the next day fueling up the choppers...

Besides the big downtown food and water screw up everything else has really gone well in terms of getting help and people out.

[timvp]

2:50 P.M. - WWL-TV LIVE pictures show thousands still wait to be picked up from I-10 and Causeway. Buses arrived a few hours ago, but the refugees say that it's the first sighting of buses in 12 hours. Some of the refugees have been waiting four days. State Police say five people died Thursday while waiting.


2:54 P.M. - WWL Reporter Jonathan Betz says the refugees at I-10 and Causeway are standing in squalid conditions. He said there are only 10 portable toilets for thousands of people and the Interstate median is full of human waste.


3:14 P.M. - St. Bernard Parish officials say that FEMA has not called them yet...five days after the storm.


6:26 P.M. - WASHINGTON (AP): Thousands of people stranded in two swamped parishes south of New Orleans are just as desperate for food, water and supplies as those trapped in the city, but they can't get the attention of federal disaster relief officials, Rep. Charlie Melancon, D-La., said Friday.

And to make matters worse, Melancon said in a telephone interview, he was unable to deliver that message to President Bush during his visit to New Orleans on Friday because the president's security detail couldn't clear him in to meet with Bush on Air Force One.

Yeah, everything going as planned.

Man, if I were those conditions, I'd be looting my azz off. After three days of starving and without any hope, I'd be right there strapped trying to survive.

[Jelly]

The people who are the true saviors of these people and who have been the real catalyst in lighting a fire under the government are the media. If we didn't have Anderson, Shephard, Geraldo, Joe Scarbourough and all the rest of those guys constantly on TV , showing America the true depths of despair, and demanding attention from the government, a lot more people would be dying. So kudos to the media, they have redeemed themselves.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, amazing what happens when the media stops fucking around with nothing but looting coverage.

[timvp]

Yeah, amazing what happens when the media stops fucking around with nothing but looting coverage.

Yeah, no crap. I've been pissed off since Tuesday that nothing was getting done. At that point, all the media cared about was the looters.

Finally they see the real issue.

It took five days but I guess it's better late than never.

[SpursWoman]

PS - I love that 18 year old kid that *stole* a school bus and drove all of those people to Houston. I really hope nothing but good things happen to that kid....that was awesome. :)

[Kori Ellis]

Michael Brown, the blithering idiot in charge of FEMA - a job he trained for by running something called the International Arabian Horse Association - admitted he didn't know until Thursday that there were 15,000 desperate, dehydrated, hungry, angry, dying victims of Katrina in the New Orleans Convention Center.

:cry

[timvp]

PS - I love that 18 year old kid that *stole* a school bus and drove all of those people to Houston. I really hope nothing but good things happen to that kid....that was awesome. :)

Next time he should try "finding" the bus.

:smokin

[MannyIsGod]

He can't, unless he's white.

[timvp]

15,000 is a lot of damn people. That's like a regular season SBC Center crowd. Spurs fans get mad if the TV timeout takes too long. Imagine four hot long days with nothing. People dying and no help to be found.

Amazing.

Baghdad > New Orleans

[baseline bum]

Next time he should try "finding" the bus.

:smokin

Sorry timvp... you're either born a looter or a finder, and only Michael Jackson has ever successfully crossed over.

[Kori Ellis]

I can't get over the Convention Center fuck up. I don't understand it at all.

If the FEMA director didn't even know people were there, what happened? Who told them to go there? Has anyone taken any responsibility on this subject?

[Trainwreck2100]

Sorry timvp... you're either born a looter or a finder, and only Michael Jackson has ever successfully crossed over.

Condelisa Rice???

[timvp]

Sorry timvp... you're either born a looter or a finder, and only Michael Jackson has ever successfully crossed over.

:lol

I think that caption miscue is going to live in infamy. It's a bad sign when Jesse Jackson starts making sense...

[timvp]

I can't get over the Convention Center fuck up. I don't understand it at all.

If the FEMA director didn't even know people were there, what happened? Who told them to go there? Has anyone taken any responsibility on this subject?

No. A lot of finger pointing but no one has stepped forward to take the blame.

[Trainwreck2100]

I can't get over the Convention Center fuck up. I don't understand it at all.

If the FEMA director didn't even know people were there, what happened? Who told them to go there? Has anyone taken any responsibility on this subject?


The media didn't cover it those first days, maybe if they were looting it he would have found out sooner.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Here's my solution.

Drop that FEMA fucker Michael Brown in the middle of the 9th Ward, give him communications equipment, and tell him until everyone's evaced he can't leave. No food or water for his sorry ass either.

It sounds like FEMA is giving everyone the run around. Today when Bush was talking he said something like "they tell me they're bringing in food, water, and buses, I felt I needed to come here to see if it was true for myself."

Sounds like the FEMA asshole is trying to spin everything away, when the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of him and his organization.

Pretty fucking pathetic.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If the FEMA director didn't even know people were there, what happened? Who told them to go there?

Shepard Smith interviewed one of the people at the Convention Center on I think Wednesday, and the guy said they just figured if they all congregated there that FEMA would show up and help them.

[spurs=bling]

I feel bad for those in New Orleans they have nowhere to go its just so sad.
I feel good though that my school is trying to raise ten thousand to send over there so i hope we have luck. so far the red cross has reported 305,758 Donors & $43,965,785 Raised

[Jelly]

You guys will have to come up with more than one picture of a white woman with a loaf of bread if you want to keep claiming this racist media BS.

[timvp]

http://www.foxnews.com/photo_essay/photoessay_577_images/superdome_350.jpg

All those people and they bring a short bus.

Nice.

[Kori Ellis]

Shepard Smith interviewed one of the people at the Convention Center on I think Wednesday, and the guy said they just figured if they all congregated there that FEMA would show up and help them.


I'll call bullshit on that one.

I guarantee you that it had to be on the news in the days preceeding Katrina to go to the Convention Center. 15K people didn't decide to go there on their own.

Why were the doors unlocked? How did they get in?

[timvp]

Shepard Smith interviewed one of the people at the Convention Center on I think Wednesday, and the guy said they just figured if they all congregated there that FEMA would show up and help them.

15K all had the same idea?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/02/honore.profile/vert.honore.ap.jpg

Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, the man the mayor says got more shit done in his first 3 hours in NO than the FEMA prick did in two days.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/honore.profile/index.html


------------
Hey, don't shoot the messenger on the Convention Center, it was some random guy standing there waiting, and he said people were going through chest high water to get to the Superdome, so some people just took up shop at the CC and started telling people to wait there and not go through the dirty water.

*shrugs*

[Kori Ellis]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/02/honore.profile/vert.honore.ap.jpg

Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, the man the mayor says got more shit done in his first 3 hours in NO than the FEMA prick did in two days.

Yeah he's a bad ass.

[timvp]

http://www.foxnews.com/photo_essay/photoessay_577_images/090105_katrina15.jpg

It's probably not a good sign that this was taken today. What part of 'help' isn't understood?

[Kori Ellis]

http://www.foxnews.com/photo_essay/photoessay_577_images/090105_katrina15.jpg

It's probably not a good sign that this was taken today. What part of 'help' isn't understood?

It looks like they looted enough food and drinks to sit out the wait. So that's good at least.

[baseline bum]

Oh... it says HELF.... no need to stop, carry on

[Jelly]

Shepard Smith interviewed one of the people at the Convention Center on I think Wednesday, and the guy said they just figured if they all congregated there that FEMA would show up and help them.

I heard that on an Anderson Cooper interview. The people decided to go there on their own thinking it would be better than waiting at the Superdome. Apparently no authorities told them to do this. I guess that's how it fell thru the cracks. Still, you'd think helicopters flying over would see the mass exodus. But again, you guys can keep bitching about the media, but the media is how FEMA heard about everyone gathering at the Convention Center situation.

[timvp]

It looks like they looted enough food and drinks to sit out the wait. So that's good at least.

It's a bad sign when you have to resort to waiving an American flag to prove you aren't dangerous.

[timvp]

I heard that on an Anderson Cooper interview. The people decided to go there on their own thinking it would be better than waiting at the Superdome. Apparently no authorities told them to do this. I guess that's how it fell thru the cracks. Still, you'd think helicopters flying over would see the mass exodus. But again, you guys can keep bitching about the media, but the media is how FEMA heard about everyone gathering at the Convention Center situation.

15K people don't decide to go somewhere on their own. And even if some went without someone telling them to go there, there'd be plenty of others that would know people were going there.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

That pic was actually taken yesterday LJ, it was the front page of CNN for a while.


Military helicopters continued airlifts throughout the day, ferrying in supplies and taking many people out of the city to the Louis Armstrong New Orleans International Airport in nearby Kenner. The facility so far has processed 40,000 people, with priority given to the sick and injured, one official said

Sounds like they've figured that's a better way than filling a bus with 50 people. Forty thousand is a shitload of people.

[baseline bum]

It's a bad sign when you have to resort to waiving an American flag to prove you aren't dangerous.

timvp, may I remind you those are most likely looted American flags and you should be scared.

[Jelly]

"what part of help don't you understand"

TimVP,
I just heard a new estimate that there are over 200,000 people that didn't evacuate and that are needing rescue. even if that figure is closer to 60,000 as was earlier thought, that is a staggering number of people to rescue. The have to get the elderly, sick, and the many people dying before they stop for healthy and able bodied young men like those depicted in the photo.

just for the sake of stats, they have so far rescued 10,000 according to the Coast Guard.

also, as Aggie pointed out the makeshift medical facilities have treated40,000 people. These rescuers are working there asses off and doing some great work. I don't think it's fair to suggest as you did with the "what part of help" thing, that these pilots and rescuers are just callously flying over people and don't "get" that they need help. We just need about 10X as many personnel down there.

[Kori Ellis]

I just heard a new estimate that there are over 200,000 people

I thought that was the estimate in the beginning - 1.2M in the N.O. metro area and that 20% didn't get out/leave. The 200K is the number we were talking about here in this thread one day after Katrina.


We just need about 10X as many personnel down there.

That's the point. It's Saturday now, they should have gotten more people down there helping by now.

[Jelly]

I thought that was the estimate in the beginning - 1.2M in the N.O. metro area and that 20% didn't get out/leave. The 200K is the number we were talking about here in this thread one day after Katrina.



That's the point. It's Saturday now, they should have gotten more people down there helping by now.

can't argue that, but the rescuers on the scene are working themselves into exhaustion. When this is over, some people in high places will have some explaining to do.

[timvp]

The New Orleans situation should take precedence over everything else in the world. Instead of fighting thousands of miles away in the sand, why not help out the peeps in our own backyard?

[Trainwreck2100]

The New Orleans situation should take precedence over everything else in the world. Instead of fighting thousands of miles away in the sand, why not help out the peeps in our own backyard?

Because that's what the hurricane wants, if we don't "stay the couse", the hurricane wins




last one for tonight, i swear.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

WOW, this is an interesting read...

http://www.colorado.edu/hazards/o/nov04/nov04c.html

"What if Hurricane Ivan had Hit New Orleans"


Recent evacuation surveys show that two thirds of nonevacuees with the means to evacuate chose not to leave because they felt safe in their homes.



For those without means, the medically challenged, residents without personal transportation, and the homeless, evacuation requires significant assistance.



A proposal made after the evacuation for Hurricane Georges to use public transit buses to assist in their evacuation out of the city was not implemented for Ivan. If Ivan had struck New Orleans directly it is estimated that 40-60,000 residents of the area would have perished.



If a hurricane of a magnitude similar to Ivan does strike New Orleans, the challenges surrounding rescue efforts for those who have not evacuated will be different from other coastal areas.



Regional and national rescue resources would have to respond as rapidly as possible and would require augmentation by local private vessels (assuming some survived). And, even with this help, federal and state governments have estimated that it would take 10 days to rescue all those stranded within the city. No shelters within the city would be free of risk from rising water. Because of this threat, the American Red Cross will not open shelters in New Orleans during hurricanes greater than category 2; staffing them would put employees and volunteers at risk. For Ivan, only the Superdome was made available as a refuge of last resort for the medically challenged and the homeless.



In this hypothetical storm scenario, it is estimated that it would take nine weeks to pump the water out of the city, and only then could assessments begin to determine what buildings were habitable or salvageable. Sewer, water, and the extensive forced drainage pumping systems would be damaged.


Survivors would have to endure conditions never before experienced in a North American disaster.



National hurricane experts predict more active and powerful hurricane seasons in the Atlantic basin for the next 10-40 years. The hurricane scenario for New Orleans that these converging risks portend is almost unimaginable. Hurricane Ivan had the potential to make the unthinkable a reality. Next time New Orleans may not be so fortunate.

Absolutely chilling, and absolutely on the money. :depressed

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Awesome, they had the 15 year old kid who commandeered the school bus and drove people to the Astrodome on.

Kid's a hero, I wish FEMA had the same initiative.

[Jelly]

Man. I wish I had turned away. They just showed a picture of this guy that got beaten to a pulp with a lead pipe in the Superdome. That was gruesome. The photographer said he didn't know if the guy made it.

[Kori Ellis]

Man. I wish I had turned away. They just showed a picture of this guy that got beaten to a pulp with a lead pipe in the Superdome. That was gruesome. The photographer said he didn't know if the guy made it.

:(

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Okay, I have to brag on my school a little... A&M sent a bunch of buses to NO to help evac refugees to SA and Dallas, and is taking on a couple hundred at Reed Arena (our basketball arena). Good bull.

http://www.foxnews.com/images/176199/3_1_090205_shelter_555.jpg

[timvp]

Awesome, they had the 15 year old kid who commandeered the school bus and drove people to the Astrodome on.

Kid's a hero, I wish FEMA had the same initiative.

I'm surprised they didn't shoot the damn crazy looter. Food and drinks I can understand, but a bus?

[/mediaandpeoplebeforetheyrealizedwhatwashappening]

[Jelly]

I checked Tim Duncan's website and was a little disappointed that there is no mention or condolences to the Hurricane victims. I thought he might be one of the first athletes to step up since he was so affected by Hugo.

[timvp]

I checked Tim Duncan's website and was a little disappointed that there is no mention or condolences to the Hurricane victims. I thought he might be one of the first athletes to step up since he was so affected by Hugo.

Trust me, the blame should be placed on the people who run the site.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

BTW, I need to share my Houston experience coming back from a client visit today...

EVERY SINGLE radio station was talking about the relief efforts, telling people where to donate, where to volunteer, what was needed, etc.

Drove by the Astrodome and there was a long line of cars waiting with donations (took up the exit ramp, about a half mile of frontage road, and then all of S. Main St. (runs alongside the Dome).

Tons of media vehicles in the parking lot, not surprised, but damn I have never seen so many satellite trucks.

On the tv at the airport they had people left and right thanking Texas for its generosity. One guy said something like "Texas is doing it right, God bless y'all, wish FEMA knew half as much as the people running this state."

Client and I talked about it (I have to go back next week), we are going to call it a day at noon next Friday and go clear out a couple of Wal-Marts of footballs, basketballs, etc. and head to the Astrodome.

:tu

Houston is setting a high bar for the rest of this state to follow though, and I think we'll be up to the challenge.

[Jelly]

They're dedicating another 2 minutes of the 24/7 coverage to the devastated communities in Mississippi. These poor whities have been without food, water, electricity, shelter since Monday. They are just now seeing the national guard for the first time in five days. I reassert my claim that the media and the government don't care about white people.

and I KNOW Jesse Jackson sure as hell doesn't.

[spurs=bling]

"Texas is doing it right, God bless y'all, wish FEMA knew half as much as the people running this state."

that is very true

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Hmm, someone on Houston TV just brought up a good point (they are broadcasting KHOU here in Dallas) about the relief efforts.

Mayor Nagin originally told FEMA 10,000 needed evaced after the hurricane went through, so the gov. prepped for 10K. Then all of a sudden it was 50,000, and yesterday (before his rant) he told FEMA he needed help evacing over 100,000.

Not excusing FEMA, but the point was made that org. just coordinates and the mayor all of a sudden was increasing his situation ten fold.

Hadn't thought about that yet, but they had a point.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

France, Canada, UK, Russia, Japan, Mexico, Germany, Switzerland, Holland, Greece, and UAE all offering help :tu

[timvp]

Hmm, someone on Houston TV just brought up a good point (they are broadcasting KHOU here in Dallas) about the relief efforts.

Mayor Nagin originally told FEMA 10,000 needed evaced after the hurricane went through, so the gov. prepped for 10K. Then all of a sudden it was 50,000, and yesterday (before his rant) he told FEMA he needed help evacing over 100,000.

Not excusing FEMA, but the point was made that org. just coordinates and the mayor all of a sudden was increasing his situation ten fold.

Hadn't thought about that yet, but they had a point.

I thought everyone knew that there was 200-250K people still in NO.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

By yesterday they did, but leading up to the hurricane on Sunday and through Wednesday they thought it was only like 20K.

My sis had some comments on the FEMA director, but they'd probably get me banned :lol

[Kori Ellis]

By yesterday they did, but leading up to the hurricane on Sunday and through Wednesday they thought it was only like 20K.

They said from the beginning 20% of the population. So how did they ever figure 10-20K?

[Kori Ellis]

there's supposedly between 100-200K people left in the city.

How did I know? Because it was all over the media. So how did the Fema Director not know?

[timvp]

FEMA just found out that there was a convention center and is just now bringing food into the city. Give them a break.

Yeah.

[Nbadan]

Let's kill another rumor...


Laura Brown, a Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman in
Washington, said she had no such report.

"We're controlling every single aircraft in that airspace and none of
them reported being fired on," she said, adding that the FAA was in
contact with the military as well as civilian aircraft.

ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1087205)

[timvp]

Laura Brown, a Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman in
Washington, said she had no such report.

"We're controlling every single aircraft in that airspace and none of
them reported being fired on," she said, adding that the FAA was in
contact with the military as well as civilian aircraft.

Exactly what I'm talking about. While people like whottt scoop up every rumor and take it as proven fact, I've seen far too many of these "rumors" fall through.

It's as if people are trying to dehumanize the New Orleans survivors so they can sleep at night.

[SpursWoman]

Awesome, they had the 15 year old kid who commandeered the school bus and drove people to the Astrodome on.

Kid's a hero, I wish FEMA had the same initiative.


That's the one I was talking about...but they said he was 18. Now how hard was that? He went to the bus yard, found some keys...matched it to a bus...started it, found as many people as would fit, babies to grandma's...and drove to Houston. They all pitched in for each of the 3 stops for gas.

Very remarkable young man...and something so simple, too.

[Vashner]

He didn't steal it from the Bus yard.. all those are underwater...

What happend was bus driver got out and they took off...

George Bush is the one that got that bus there if you want to credit anyone.

[SpursWoman]

He didn't steal it from the Bus yard.. all those are underwater...

What happend was bus driver got out and they took off...

George Bush is the one that got that bus there if you want to credit anyone.


They interviewed him on TV and he described how he got the keys from the yard. :wtf

[Jelly]

That's the one I was talking about...but they said he was 18. Now how hard was that? He went to the bus yard, found some keys...matched it to a bus...started it, found as many people as would fit, babies to grandma's...and drove to Houston. They all pitched in for each of the 3 stops for gas.

Very remarkable young man...and something so simple, too.

He's a hero. I think it would be cool to name a school after him...instead of another dead president.

[Trainwreck2100]

He's a hero. I think it would be cool to name a school after him...instead of another dead president.


Not smart to name a school after a kid who stole a school bus, maybe a park.

[Jelly]

By the way, all those buses that were under water. They were sent to New Orleans to evacuate people before the hurricane, but they weren't "utilized" as a New Orleans official said. I don't know if that means that local officials dropped the ball and just let the buses sit there, or if people in the community turned down the ride.

[Jelly]

Turn on Fox news to heal your aching heart. The calvary is finally here.

[hussker]

BTW, I need to share my Houston experience coming back from a client visit today...

EVERY SINGLE radio station was talking about the relief efforts, telling people where to donate, where to volunteer, what was needed, etc.

Drove by the Astrodome and there was a long line of cars waiting with donations (took up the exit ramp, about a half mile of frontage road, and then all of S. Main St. (runs alongside the Dome).

Tons of media vehicles in the parking lot, not surprised, but damn I have never seen so many satellite trucks.

On the tv at the airport they had people left and right thanking Texas for its generosity. One guy said something like "Texas is doing it right, God bless y'all, wish FEMA knew half as much as the people running this state."

Client and I talked about it (I have to go back next week), we are going to call it a day at noon next Friday and go clear out a couple of Wal-Marts of footballs, basketballs, etc. and head to the Astrodome.

:tu

Houston is setting a high bar for the rest of this state to follow though, and I think we'll be up to the challenge.

Yeah, but I also heard a live radio report from the "Fiesta Market" on Kirby Street (a few blocks from the Astrodome) how there were about 250 new refugees asking for Beer and Weed in the parking lot because they needed some, just having come in from LA. That was AM 740 in Houston reporting that.

[Jelly]

I always used to hate the bastard, but doggone it if I don't love Geraldo Rivera now. He really has a heart.

Someone check my temperature.

[Jelly]

Yeah, but I also heard a live radio report from the "Fiesta Market" on Kirby Street (a few blocks from the Astrodome) how there were about 250 new refugees asking for Beer and Weed in the parking lot because they needed some, just having come in from LA. That was AM 740 in Houston reporting that.

I've never done drugs, but I think I'd be the first one asking for weed after that experience.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Shit let them have some weed, considering what they've just been through.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

TUPELO, Miss. (AP) -- Bestselling writer John Grisham and his wife will contribute $5 million to a relief fund they established this week at a Tupelo bank to help Mississippians rebuild after Hurricane Katrina.

This is what I want to see out of pro athletes :tu You got the cash, pony up.

BTW, American citizens have donated over 200 million as of this morning. Awesome.

[Jelly]

Not smart to name a school after a kid who stole a school bus, maybe a park.

Oh come on. He jumped in, took the initiative -amazing for an 18 year old- commandeered a bus and saved lives. And since it was a school bus, that makes it especially apropos to name a school after him. Acts like this from ordinary citizens should be honored and memorialized to provide inspiration for future generations. I mean, as much as the names James T. Polk or John Marshall stir the emotions and patriotism of teenagers everywhere....

[Jelly]

It's not like he stole a bus so he can jazz it up and ride around town in his new souped up hoopdi.

[Jelly]

This is what I want to see out of pro athletes :tu You got the cash, pony up.

BTW, American citizens have donated over 200 million as of this morning. Awesome.

That's great. But you know what I wish some of these millionaires would do. A lot of evacuees are being thrown out of their hotel rooms because they're out of money. If I were rich, I would call the hotels and tell them I'd be footing the bill for the Hurricane victims. And the hotels better do their part and give me a deal, so I could take care of as many people as possible. That would be immediate help. Donating money has to go thru so many channels before anyone feels the benefits. There are plenty of rich celebrities that could pull this off.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Yeah, but I will argue that most people who could afford a hotel have enough money and resources to cope with that.

It's the ones sitting on the streets outside the Superdome waiting for a ride that are really hurting.

[MannyIsGod]

Jelly, check the population density of NO compared to the population density of souther Mississippi and get back to me as to why the Media is focusing it's coverage on NO. It's the major city that got hit, it is going to get the majority of the coverage.

[Hook Dem]

Jelly, check the population density of NO compared to the population density of souther Mississippi and get back to me as to why the Media is focusing it's coverage on NO. It's the major city that got hit, it is going to get the majority of the coverage.
You are correct Manny! Not to dimish the damage done in Mississippi and Alabama, but the storm there is basically over and cleanup begins. In NO, it is not over and it will take al long time to begin cleanup.

[spurster]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/02/honore.profile/vert.honore.ap.jpg

Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, the man the mayor says got more shit done in his first 3 hours in NO than the FEMA prick did in two days.

Major props to the general.

[Jelly]

Jelly, check the population density of NO compared to the population density of souther Mississippi and get back to me as to why the Media is focusing it's coverage on NO. It's the major city that got hit, it is going to get the majority of the coverage.

I understand that Manny. I don't believe the media and govt don't care about white people. I was being sarcastic to counter this claim that the rescue attempts were lousy because the victims were black. The fact is there are hundreds of thousands of white victims that we are barely hearing about. And they got the same slow response and lousy service.

I'm also trying to counter this claim that the media only cares about whites. The Natalee Holloway Theory doesn't apply here. If it did, than the media coverage wouldn't center almost entirely around the black population, even if it is about a major city.

I do agree that when these kidnappings occur, the media cares more about beautiful blonds from middle or upper class families than they care about poor "less sympathetic" people. (I am not calling the non-Natalee's not sympathetic, but the media makes such determinations). The victim that is the most "desirable" always gets hyped to no end. I honestly think that if Natalee was fat, ugly, had a prison record and came from a trailer park, we would never have heard her name.

[MannyIsGod]

I understand that Manny. I don't believe the media and govt don't care about white people. I was being sarcastic to counter this claim that the rescue attempts were lousy because the victims were black. The fact is there are hundreds of thousands of white victims that we are barely hearing about. And they got the same slow response and lousy service.

I'm also trying to counter this claim that the media only cares about whites. The Natalee Holloway Theory doesn't apply here. If it did, than the media coverage wouldn't center almost entirely around the black population, even if it is about a major city.

I do agree that when these kidnappings occur, the media cares more about beautiful blonds from middle or upper class families than they care about poor "less sympathetic" people. (I am not calling the non-Natalee's not sympathetic, but the media makes such determinations). The victim that is the most "desirable" always gets hyped to no end. I honestly think that if Natalee was fat, ugly, had a prison record and came from a trailer park, we would never have heard her name.
Its not that they don't care, its that they approach things differently. I don't think there is an overt effort to be racist, but if people don't see the differences then they just aren't looking. And if there are differences, then there is something driving that difference. And regardless of what is driving the differernce, a difference based on race is racism by nature.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh, and even though the media coverage was centered on the black population, it wasn't very favorable in the begining. It was very unfavorable in the begining. All they did was complain about fucking looting.

[Jelly]

Its not that they don't care, its that they approach things differently. I don't think there is an overt effort to be racist, but if people don't see the differences then they just aren't looking. And if there are differences, then there is something driving that difference. And regardless of what is driving the differernce, a difference based on race is racism by nature.

My point is there is no difference. The fact is there are people in predominantly white communities that are ALSO not getting food, water, and did not see the National Guard until Friday. That's my whole point. All this comes down to major screw-ups and bad organization.

But since New Orleans is getting all the attention, all we are seeing are suffering blacks and people are jumping to the wrong conclusions. It's about inefficiency, poor preparation, disorganization and inept leadership, not racism.

[Jelly]

according to the BBC, Singapore sent Chinook helicopters following a request by the US to Fort Polk, Louisiana, to help to ferry supplies and undertake airlift missions.

This, I can't believe. Why the hell does the United States of America have to ask Singapore for helicopters? That is just embarrassing.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

according to the BBC, Singapore sent Chinook helicopters following a request by the US to Fort Polk, Louisiana, to help to ferry supplies and undertake airlift missions.

This, I can't believe. Why the hell does the United States of America have to ask Singapore for helicopters? That is just embarrassing.

So let me get this straight...

1. A number of people were wondering when other countries were going to offer help and were miffed when it didn't come quickly.

2. People are mad that the gov't didn't do everything they could to help as quickly as possible.

3. You're now embarrassed because the gov't is seeking help from another country.

I tell you, this 'cane has turned SpursTalk into Bizarro SpursTalk.

[Jelly]

So let me get this straight...

1. A number of people were wondering when other countries were going to offer help and were miffed when it didn't come quickly.

2. People are mad that the gov't didn't do everything they could to help as quickly as possible.

3. You're now embarrassed because the gov't is seeking help from another country.

I tell you, this 'cane has turned SpursTalk into Bizarro SpursTalk.

I'm embarrassed that the greatest military power the world has ever seen and the nation which spends more on this massive military power than the next 17 nations combined, doesn't have enough friggin Chinooks to rescue it's own citizens, no matter how massive the devastation.

[Ginofan]

I'm embarrassed that the greatest military power the world has ever seen and the nation which spends more on this massive military power than the next 17 nations combined, doesn't have enough friggin Chinooks to rescue it's own citizens, no matter how massive the devastation.

Who says they didn't have enough? The more helicopters the better, right?

[MannyIsGod]

I'm telling you Jelly, sometimes there's just no pleasing you :lol

[MannyIsGod]

In regards to Carnival



12:27 P.M. - GALVESTON, TX (AP): Federal officials are chartering three Carnival Cruise Lines ships for six months to provide shelter for Hurricane Katrina evacuees.

The "Ecstasy," "Sensation" and "Holiday" are being pulled from regular use.

Ecstasy and Sensation will both be pulled Monday. They're scheduled to dock and house Katrina refugees in Galveston, Texas. The Holiday likely will be pulled Thursday and docked in Mobile, Alabama.

The Ecstasy and Sensation can each take about 2,600 passengers. The Holiday has capacity for about 1,800 people. Guests with canceled bookings will get refunds and the opportunity to re-book on any Carnival ship -- with a $100-per-person shipboard credit.

The "Elation," which operates from Galveston, will take over some of Ecstasy's schedule.

[MannyIsGod]

Ok, more on Mike Brown that makes me wonder what the fuck he's thinking


10:03 A.M. - Brown: Seeing the magnitude of this tragedy, people want to lash out at FEMA, they want to lash out at me. That's fine and understandable. But I have to continue trying to save lives.

10:03 A.M. - Brown: We thought we had the standard hurricane and that we'd immediately respond and have things in order in a couple of days and then the levee broke and that hampered us and then some idiots decided they'd get guns and start shooting and that almost put our rescue efforts at a halt. If you don't think it frustrates an urban search and rescue person when they are trying to save lives and they have to stop because they are being shot at, then you are wrong.

Mother fucker, did you not notice that this hurricane was one of the strongest ever? Did you not notice that almost everyone out there gave the levee's a very poor chance of standing this onslaught?

The guy is really fucking stupid, and I am not sad that he is giong to be toast. Shit, he should already have been shit canned.

[Ginofan]

Mother fucker, did you not notice that this hurricane was one of the strongest ever? Did you not notice that almost everyone out there gave the levee's a very poor chance of standing this onslaught?

The guy is really fucking stupid, and I am not sad that he is giong to be toast. Shit, he should already have been shit canned.

Agreed. Building a levee system to only withstand a CAT 3 especially in a city with the specs N.O. has is pretty damn stupid in the first place. But to just assume that with a CAT 4/5 everything is going to be standard and that a levee system built for a CAT 3 will be okay in a CAT 4/5 is even stupider.

[Jelly]

I'm telling you Jelly, sometimes there's just no pleasing you :lol

would you believe that people who know me call me "high maintenance"?
I guess you would. Well, I don't care if you, lots of people on this board, people at work, my family, several friends, and some ex-boyfriends think I'm unreasonable and hard to please. you're all free to your opinions, no matter how misguided they may be.

I know in my heart that I am right :angel

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

At least you have a sense of humor.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Here's what amazes me... New Orleans has 430 miles of levees. Yet, all it took was a 400 yard break to fuck the city over.

In engineering classes we always talked about safety factor. There is nothing in that design that is safe. 400 yard breaks undoes 400 MILES of levees protecting the city. That's fucked up.

[Vashner]

Forget this cots.. what they need are more air matresses.

[Extra Stout]

Here's what amazes me... New Orleans has 430 miles of levees. Yet, all it took was a 400 yard break to fuck the city over.

In engineering classes we always talked about safety factor. There is nothing in that design that is safe. 400 yard breaks undoes 400 MILES of levees protecting the city. That's fucked up.I suppose they would needed a levee behind a levee behind a levee.

But they did a cost-benefit analysis and decided that building a system to contain a Category 4 hurricane was too expensive compared to the complete destruction of the 35th largest city in the United States, the displacement of 1.4 million people, and the disruption of commerce for America's largest port for the forseeable future.

And why is Michael Brown doing press conferences on my television? President Bush, Mr. Brown should be in a prison cell somewhere.

[Vashner]

No just a big concrete dam... not 10 inches of crete and then dirt..

It's gonna need to look like a giant Medina Lake dam. With a seawall double the existing size.

Or.. you build everything up on stilts and make it like Venice Italy...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I suppose they would needed a levee behind a levee behind a levee.

But they did a cost-benefit analysis and decided that building a system to contain a Category 4 hurricane was too expensive compared to the complete destruction of the 35th largest city in the United States, the displacement of 1.4 million people, and the disruption of commerce for America's largest port for the forseeable future.


Actually FEMA's projections for a cat4/5 has always been 50,000+ dead. I know this is a fucked up thing to say but I honestly think they don't expected this many people to 1) stay or 2) survive.

[MannyIsGod]

Well, take into consideration that this wasn't a true Cat 5 strike. It was more like a Cat 3 with a Cat 5 storm surge. A true Cat 5 would have killed many of these survivors, so you may be right on that.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Here's what amazes me... New Orleans has 430 miles of levees. Yet, all it took was a 400 yard break to fuck the city over.

In engineering classes we always talked about safety factor. There is nothing in that design that is safe. 400 yard breaks undoes 400 MILES of levees protecting the city. That's fucked up.



yeah it is very fucked up when you put it that way

[Jelly]

UPDATE
Important update to all those who were, like me, aghast, shocked and disillusioned that Singapore was having to send us 3 Chinooks to help with the rescue.....everybody settle down....it turns out those Chinooks and their pilots were stationed at Ft. Hood.. where they probably receive training from our badass U.S. military. Phewwww. My inflated, jingoistic sense of American pride and superiority is restored (partially).

We're number 1! We're number 1! We're number 1!

[Vashner]

82nd airborne troops downtown now... lots of them.
You can tell by the paratroop helmets.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Components/Art/COVER/050903/MEGA_FeelOurPain_3p.jpg

[spurster]

It seems that Mississippi is being ignored not only by the media but also by the Feds.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Katrina-Mississippi-HK2.html

September 3, 2005
Mississippians' Suffering Overshadowed
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 9:49 p.m. ET

JACKSON, Miss. (AP) -- Mississippi hurricane survivors looked around Saturday and wondered just how long it would take to get food, clean water and shelter. And they were more than angry at the federal government and the national news media.

Richard Gibbs was disgusted by reports of looting in New Orleans and upset at the lack of attention hurricane victims in his state were getting.

''I say burn the bridges and let 'em all rot there,'' he said. ''We're suffering over here too, but we're not killing each other. We've got to help each other. We need gas and food and water and medical supplies.''

Gibbs and his wife, Holly, have been stuck at their flooded home in Gulfport just off the Biloxi River. Water comes up to the second floor, they are out of gasoline, and food supplies are running perilously low.

Until recently, they also had Holly's 75-year-old father, who has a pacemaker and severe diabetes, with them. Finally they got an ambulance to take him to the airport so he could be airlifted to Lafayette, La., for medical help.

In poverty-stricken north Gulfport, Grover Chapman was angry at the lack of aid.

''Something should've been on this corner three days ago,'' Chapman, 60, said Saturday as he whipped up dinner for his neighbors.

He used wood from his demolished produce stand to cook fish, rabbit, okra and butter beans he'd been keeping in his freezer. Although many houses here, about five miles inland, are still standing, they are severely damaged. Corrugated tin roofs lie scattered on the ground.

''I'm just doing what I can do,'' Chapman said. ''These people support me with my produce stand every day. Now it's time to pay them back.''

One neighbor, 78-year-old Georgia Smylie, knew little about what's happening elsewhere. She was too worried about her own situation.

''My medicine is running out. I need high blood pressure medicine, medicine for my heart,'' she said.

Larry Sabato, a University of Virginia political scientist, said he's been watching hours of Katrina coverage every day and most of the national media attention has focused on the devastation and looting in New Orleans.

''Mississippi needs more coverage,'' Sabato said. ''Until people see it on TV, they don't think it's real.''

Along the battered Mississippi Gulf Coast, crews started searching boats for corpses on Saturday. Several shrimpers are believed to have died as they tried to ride out the storm aboard their boats on the Intracoastal Waterway.

President Bush toured ravaged areas of the Mississippi coast on Friday with Gov. Haley Barbour and other state officials. They also flew over flooded New Orleans.

''I'm going to tell you, Mississippi got hit much harder than they did, but what happened in the aftermath -- it makes your stomach hurt to go miles and miles and miles and the houses are all under water up to the roof,'' Barbour said.

Keisha Moran has been living in a tent in a department store parking lot in Bay St. Louis with her boyfriend and three young children since the hurricane struck. She said National Guardsmen have brought her water but no other aid so far, and she was furious that it took Bush several days before he came to see the damage in Mississippi.

''It's how many days later? How many people are dead?'' Moran said.

Mississippi's death toll from Hurricane Katrina stood at 144 on Saturday, according to confirmed reports from coroners and the Mississippi Emergency Management Agency. Barbour had said Friday the total was 147, but he didn't provide a county-by-county breakdown.

In a strongly worded editorial, The Sun Herald of Biloxi-Gulfport pleaded for help and questioned why a massive National Guard presence wasn't already visible.

''We understand that New Orleans also was devastated by Hurricane Katrina, but surely this nation has the resources to rescue both that metropolitan (area) and ours,'' the newspaper editorialized, saying survival basics like ice, gasoline and medicine have been too slow to arrive.

''We are not calling on the nation and the state to make life more comfortable in South Mississippi, we are calling on the nation and the state to make life here possible,'' the paper wrote.

[Vashner]

I am almost starting to get sick of all the complaints...

[Guru of Nothing]

It seems that Mississippi is being ignored not only by the media but also by the Feds.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Katrina-Mississippi-HK2.html

September 3, 2005
Mississippians' Suffering Overshadowed
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

Filed at 9:49 p.m. ET

JACKSON, Miss. (AP) -- Mississippi hurricane survivors looked around Saturday and wondered just how long it would take to get food, clean water and shelter. And they were more than angry at the federal government and the national news media.

Richard Gibbs was disgusted by reports of looting in New Orleans and upset at the lack of attention hurricane victims in his state were getting.

''I say burn the bridges and let 'em all rot there,'' he said. ''We're suffering over here too, but we're not killing each other. We've got to help each other. We need gas and food and water and medical supplies.''

Gibbs and his wife, Holly, have been stuck at their flooded home in Gulfport just off the Biloxi River. Water comes up to the second floor, they are out of gasoline, and food supplies are running perilously low.

Until recently, they also had Holly's 75-year-old father, who has a pacemaker and severe diabetes, with them. Finally they got an ambulance to take him to the airport so he could be airlifted to Lafayette, La., for medical help.

In poverty-stricken north Gulfport, Grover Chapman was angry at the lack of aid.

''Something should've been on this corner three days ago,'' Chapman, 60, said Saturday as he whipped up dinner for his neighbors.

He used wood from his demolished produce stand to cook fish, rabbit, okra and butter beans he'd been keeping in his freezer. Although many houses here, about five miles inland, are still standing, they are severely damaged. Corrugated tin roofs lie scattered on the ground.

''I'm just doing what I can do,'' Chapman said. ''These people support me with my produce stand every day. Now it's time to pay them back.''

One neighbor, 78-year-old Georgia Smylie, knew little about what's happening elsewhere. She was too worried about her own situation.

''My medicine is running out. I need high blood pressure medicine, medicine for my heart,'' she said.

Larry Sabato, a University of Virginia political scientist, said he's been watching hours of Katrina coverage every day and most of the national media attention has focused on the devastation and looting in New Orleans.

''Mississippi needs more coverage,'' Sabato said. ''Until people see it on TV, they don't think it's real.''

Along the battered Mississippi Gulf Coast, crews started searching boats for corpses on Saturday. Several shrimpers are believed to have died as they tried to ride out the storm aboard their boats on the Intracoastal Waterway.

President Bush toured ravaged areas of the Mississippi coast on Friday with Gov. Haley Barbour and other state officials. They also flew over flooded New Orleans.

''I'm going to tell you, Mississippi got hit much harder than they did, but what happened in the aftermath -- it makes your stomach hurt to go miles and miles and miles and the houses are all under water up to the roof,'' Barbour said.

Keisha Moran has been living in a tent in a department store parking lot in Bay St. Louis with her boyfriend and three young children since the hurricane struck. She said National Guardsmen have brought her water but no other aid so far, and she was furious that it took Bush several days before he came to see the damage in Mississippi.

''It's how many days later? How many people are dead?'' Moran said.

Mississippi's death toll from Hurricane Katrina stood at 144 on Saturday, according to confirmed reports from coroners and the Mississippi Emergency Management Agency. Barbour had said Friday the total was 147, but he didn't provide a county-by-county breakdown.

In a strongly worded editorial, The Sun Herald of Biloxi-Gulfport pleaded for help and questioned why a massive National Guard presence wasn't already visible.

''We understand that New Orleans also was devastated by Hurricane Katrina, but surely this nation has the resources to rescue both that metropolitan (area) and ours,'' the newspaper editorialized, saying survival basics like ice, gasoline and medicine have been too slow to arrive.

''We are not calling on the nation and the state to make life more comfortable in South Mississippi, we are calling on the nation and the state to make life here possible,'' the paper wrote.

Ordinarily, there is a cultural disconnect between mainland Mississippi and the Gulf Coast, but I'm pretty confident Mississippi will take care of its own. For better, for worse, the state pride here rivals that of Texas.

Despite all our faults, we will bend over backwards to help one another. Once the dust settles, I think Mississippi will emerge with a brand new reputation.

Now, just give me some gas!

[Vashner]

It's 90,000 square miles of damage...

It's the biggest manmade city to every be wiped out.. in human history.

It's NEVER happened before...

THIS IS not star trek...

I remember in 1993 Motorola was launching "IRIDIUM".. a LEO (low earth orbit) satellite phone thing.

Well my friend invested heavy and lost his ass in it.. over 10,000 he lost in stocks cause idiots at Wall Street thought there would never be a need for them.

Big stupid phones.. Well guess what that's about the only thing working..

Also we need to build more HAM radio's into places... you would be suprised how good that works in a pinch...

It was hot in the 50-70's.. HAM's where like UBER before the internet.. cause you could talk to people around the world.

/rant

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

MAYOR CRITICIZED EVEN BEFORE LEVY BREAK. National Hurricane Center Director had to call Nagin at home Saturday night to plead: "Get people out of New Orleans." "The criticisms of Nagin came from above as well. Numerous officials urged him to evacuate the city, but he worried about the legality of ordering people out when New Orleans has few safe hurricane shelters. Also, National Hurricane Center Director Max Mayfield in Miami called Nagin at home Saturday night and told him: Get people out of New Orleans.

''I could never sleep if I felt like I didn't do everything that I could to impress upon people the gravity of the situation,'' Mayfield said. ``New Orleans is never going to be the same.''

When a grim Nagin issued the mandatory evacuation order Sunday, he said: ``We are facing a storm that most of us have feared . . . God bless us.''

http://https//registration.philly.com/reg/login.do?url=http://www.philly.com%2Fmld%2Fmiamiherald%2Fnews%2Fspecia l_packages%2F5min%2F12505019.htm

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Qatar is offering 100 million, hope we take them up on that!

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/katrina.world.aid/index.html

[MannyIsGod]

I am almost starting to get sick of all the complaints...
I'm prety sure that people are tired of complaining. We have certain expectations of our government, and one of those is to provide absolute aid during times of crisis. There is no excuse when we have the resources but have just mismanged the response.

There is NO fucking excuse because we can respond better than we have. And that is the bottom fucking line.

I'm getting tired of people's rationalization for a shitty response.

[MannyIsGod]

Ok, this following article is it for me. I've had it up to fucking here with this government, and this is the final fucking straw. This completely shows how incompetant they are, and someone needs to clean some fucking house. Heads need to roll. 9/11 was certainly avoidable, but this was a million times more avoidable.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/katrina.chertoff/index.html



Chertoff: Katrina scenario did not exist
However, experts for years had warned of threat to New Orleans

Saturday, September 3, 2005; Posted: 7:21 p.m. EDT (23:21 GMT)

vert.chertoff.ap.jpg
Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff talks with reporters Saturday during a news conference.

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Defending the U.S. government's response to Hurricane Katrina, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff argued Saturday that government planners did not predict such a disaster ever could occur.

But in fact, government officials, scientists and journalists have warned of such a scenario for years.

Chertoff, fielding questions from reporters, said government officials did not expect both a powerful hurricane and a breach of levees that would flood the city of New Orleans. (See the video on a local paper's prophetic warning -- 3:30 )

"That 'perfect storm' of a combination of catastrophes exceeded the foresight of the planners, and maybe anybody's foresight," Chertoff said.

He called the disaster "breathtaking in its surprise."

But engineers say the levees preventing this below-sea-level city from being turned into a swamp were built to withstand only Category 3 hurricanes. And officials have warned for years that a Category 4 could cause the levees to fail. (See video of why the levee's breech was devastating -- 1:53)

Katrina was a Category 4 hurricane when it struck the Gulf Coast on September 29.

Last week, Michael Brown, head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, told CNN his agency had recently planned for a Category 5 hurricane hitting New Orleans.

Speaking to "Larry King Live" on August 31, in the wake of Katrina, Brown said, "That Category 4 hurricane caused the same kind of damage that we anticipated. So we planned for it two years ago. Last year, we exercised it. And unfortunately this year, we're implementing it."

Brown suggested FEMA -- part of the Department of Homeland Security -- was carrying out a prepared plan, rather than having to suddenly create a new one.

Chertoff argued that authorities actually had assumed that "there would be overflow from the levee, maybe a small break in the levee. The collapse of a significant portion of the levee leading to the very fast flooding of the city was not envisioned."

He added: "There will be plenty of time to go back and say we should hypothesize evermore apocalyptic combinations of catastrophes. Be that as it may, I'm telling you this is what the planners had in front of them. They were confronted with a second wave that they did not have built into the plan, but using the tools they had, we have to move forward and adapt."

But New Orleans, state and federal officials have long painted a very different picture.

"We certainly understood the potential impact of a Category 4 or 5 hurricane" on New Orleans, Lt. General Carl Strock, chief of engineers for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, said Thursday, Cox News Service reported.

Reuters reported that in 2004, more than 40 state, local and volunteer organizations practiced a scenario in which a massive hurricane struck and levees were breached, allowing water to flood New Orleans. Under the simulation, called "Hurricane Pam," the officials "had to deal with an imaginary storm that destroyed more than half a million buildings in New Orleans and forced the evacuation of a million residents," the Reuters report said.

In 2002 the New Orleans Times-Picayune ran a five-part series exploring the vulnerability of the city. The newspaper, and other news media as well, specifically addressed the possibility of massive floods drowning residents, destroying homes and releasing toxic chemicals throughout the city. (Read: "Times-Picayune" Special Report: Washing awayexternal link)

Scientists long have discussed this possibility as a sort of doomsday scenario.

On Sunday, a day before Hurricane Katrina made landfall, Ivor van Heerden, director of the Louisiana State University Public Health Research Center in Baton Rouge, said, "This is what we've been saying has been going to happen for years."

"Unfortunately, it's coming true," he said, adding that New Orleans "is definitely going to flood."

Also on Sunday, Placquemines Parish Sheriff Jeff Hingle referred back to Hurricane Betsy -- a Category 2 hurricane that struck in 1965 -- and said, "After Betsy these levees were designed for a Category 3."

He added, "These levees will not hold the water back."

But Chertoff seemed unaware of all the warnings.

"This is really one which I think was breathtaking in its surprise," Chertoff said. "There has been, over the last few years, some specific planning for the possibility of a significant hurricane in New Orleans with a lot of rainfall, with water rising in the levees and water overflowing the levees," he told reporters Saturday.

That alone would be "a very catastrophic scenario," Chertoff said. "And although the planning was not complete, a lot of work had been done. But there were two problems here. First of all, it's as if someone took that plan and dropped an atomic bomb simply to make it more difficult. We didn't merely have the overflow, we actually had the break in the wall. And I will tell you that, really, that perfect storm of combination of catastrophes exceeded the foresight of the planners, and maybe anybody's foresight."

Chertoff also argued that authorities did not have much notice that the storm would be so powerful and could make a direct hit on New Orleans.

"It wasn't until comparatively late, shortly before -- a day, maybe a day and a half, before landfall -- that it became clear that this was going to be a Category 4 or 5 hurricane headed for the New Orleans area."

As far back as Friday, August 26, the National Hurricane Center was predicting the storm could be a Category 4 hurricane at landfall, with New Orleans directly in its path. Still, storms do change paths, so the possibility existed that it might not hit the city.

But the National Weather Service prediction proved almost perfect.

Katrina made landfall on Monday, August 29.

Tens of thousands of people in New Orleans who did not or could not heed the mandatory evacuation orders issued the day before the storm made landfall were left in dire straits.

"I think we have discovered over the last few days that with all the tremendous effort using the existing resources and the traditional frameworks of the National Guard, the unusual set of challenges of conducting a massive evacuation in the context of a still dangerous flood requires us to basically break the traditional model and create a new model -- one for what you might call kind of an ultracatastrophe," Chertoff said.

He vowed that the United States "is going to move heaven and earth" to rescue those in need.

You're still getting tired of people complaing, Vashner? Because I'm tired of federal officials who are fucking stupid.

[timvp]

Damn. That's beyond pitiful. They fvck up and then play the ignorance card?

You got to be kidding me. People have known what would happen for DECADES. Everyone knew that if a Cat 4 or 5 hit, the city would flood.

Everyone involved shouldn't be able to sleep at night.

Whoever appointed this Chertoff character should be ashamed of themselves. Either Chertoff is the dumbest person alive or someone is trying to hide something.

:flipoff

[boutons]

"Either Chertoff is the dumbest person alive or someone is trying to hide something."

all of the above. A political operative appointed by shrub, a loyal puppet who will get a Medal of Freedom for his handling of Katrina.

The Regug insanity continues, not only unabated, but increasing.

shrub is now placing the entire blame on city, parish, state levels. The attempt to take control from the LA is part of the tactics to smear the locals with FULL RESPONSIBILTY for the FEDERAL FUCKUP. Karl Rove at work.

[whottt]

8/28/2005 - President Bush appealed for a madatory evacuation.

Later on 8/28/05 - a mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday for New Orleans by Mayor Ray Nagin.

Bush = appealed
Nagin = ordered

Get it? Do we get it? Or do we pass the buck? Are we accountable? Or are we not?


I know Nagin doesn't understand what mandatory means...as evidenced by this picture:

http://billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/floodedbuses.jpg

Furthermore:

Citizens who can not make it out of town are asked to go to the New Orleans Superdome(edit: notice no mention of the Convention Center) and bring enough food and water to last for 5 days.


Now I've been to New Orleans, and I've never had a car when I have been there..and I've been past the Suprdome many times...and it's not hard to get to the Superdome from any area of New Orleans...even if you are poor and don't have a car.


5 days

See? 5 days? 5 days...think about it now...what did the people going to the Superdome not bring with them?

Why do you think they said 5days, before the hurricane even hit?


Tell you what...the day I conclude that it's a better idea to try and get my 80 year old wheel chair bound grandma out of a city, off the top of a roof by a helicopter rescue, after the hurricane hits, instead of just getting the fuck out of town or at least to the high ground for a couple of hours before it hits...just go ahead and fucking shoot me.



Everyone said it was going to be the worst to ever hit...The Govenor of Mississipi said that if you don't leave...then you better prepare for the worst.

The City and State officials for LA and NO estimated 80% of the city was evacuated...

Now I am not a math genius...but 200,000 is a lot more than 80% of 495,000.

And those 60% of the Cops that gave up might have been able to help too.


What you have here is a situation of total failure by the city and state governments of Lousiana...Well no...not total failure...

Everyone...City, State and Local..said the get the fuck out of there. This is the big one.

You have a huge numbers of people that didn't take these warnings seriously...and all expected that if things went bad, their government would save them...not an entirely bad idea...but when you have 200,000 that elect to wait for someone to save them...it fucks a rescue attempt up.

So basically...the way I see it...the only part of this entire snafu that isn't a totally fucked up failure...is the Federal Governments rescue mission. Yet they are the only ones I see getting any blame.

I understand having sympathy for these people...but blaming the Federal government isn't sympathizing with them...it's excusing the reponsibilities people have for protecting their own lives, it's excusing the responsibilities of the City and State governments.

And those levy's have been there for 100 years...I know Homeland Security should have done a better job when they installed them 100 years ago...but even if they had started on that project a year ago...it wouldn't have been finished now and a shitload of partially underconstruction levys might have made it even worse.


But yes...because they didn't prepare for a strom that had never hit the USA immdieately last year...they are the most ignorant government ever...

Shit...I am getting out of here and going to a country with a government that totally wipes the ass of it's people and doesn't rely on the US to rescue them for lesser tragedies, where the water flows outward and doesn't stay in the city...can someone tell me what country that is?

[TheWriter]

Citizens who can not make it out of town are asked to go to the New Orleans Superdome(edit: notice no mention of the Convention Center) and bring enough food and water to last for 5 days.

The people who where at the Convention Center were the people who survived the hurricane in their homes. They were flooded, got out and went to the Superdome. They were all told to go to the Convention Center to await food and water.

[whottt]

5 days

I know...the government should have gone and gotten the food out of the fridge for them.

[smeagol]

This, I can't believe. Why the hell does the United States of America have to ask Singapore for helicopters? That is just embarrassing.
Jelly, what's wrong with asking for a little help in the wake of a dissaster of such magnitude.

[whottt]

We have to ask for helicopters because of all the dubmasses who didn't leave their houses and now need to be rescued 1 by 1,....5 men and 1 helicopter to rescue 1 or 2 people at a time is really inefficien and sucks up the resources of even the mightiest of nations...imagine if the entire country did that...we'd need 1.5 billion rescue workers and 300 million helicopters.

[smeagol]

We have to ask for helicopters because of all the dubmasses who didn't leave their houses and now need to be rescued 1 by 1,....5 men and 1 helicopter to rescue 1 or 2 people at a time is really inefficien and sucks up the resources of even the mightiest of nations...imagine if the entire country did that...we'd need 1.5 billion rescue workers and 300 million helicopters.
whottt, you are beginning to sound like TRO. And that's fucking scary.

[whottt]

Sorry Smeagol but some of these people were stupid...

Many of these people in Mississippi can't use the poor card...these guys are middle class whites who tried to ride it out...

And many of the people in New Orleans were doing the same thing....


I sympathize with them...but I am not going to put this all on the government...no matter how convenient the excuse. This thing goes on everyone, the governments and the people...but mostly it goes on the hurricane. There is no one cause of this disaster and it's fucking stupid to act like there is.

[smeagol]

Sorry Smeagol but some of these people were stupid...
I would say ignorant, uneducted . . . most of these guys probvably had nowhere to go.


Many of these people in Mississippi can't use the poor card...these guys are middle class whites who tried to ride it out......
If you are middle class and you tried to ride it out, then you cannot be excused. I don't think those people were the majority, though.


I sympathize with them...but I am not going to put this all on the government...no matter how convenient the excuse. This thing goes on everyone, the governments and the people...but mostly it goes on the hurricane. There is no one cause of this disaster and it's fucking stupid to act like there is.
It's not all on the Government. But, shit, the rescue effort has been poorly organized and the government, at all three levels, Federal, State and City, carries partially the blame.

[SpursWoman]

I've been watching the news all morning and they have been showing person after person who still, with no electricity, starving and no clean water...standing knee-deep in FILTH with young children that STILL ARE REFUSING TO LEAVE THEIR HOMES.

They've done surveys so far at the refugee centers and 3/4 of the people that had to be rescued were there because they didn't think it would be that bad, so they ignored the warnings.

I'm not sure how they picked their sample, but at least it's nice to know that so many are giving these people the benefit of the doubt that they couldn't get out, for whatever reason....when that just doesn't seem like that's the case.

And I know that there were people that couldn't because of age or illness or money...but I don't think these were the majority.

[Clandestino]

a lot of people stayed with the thought, "this is all i have, i want to protect it." i have seen that response many times.

[SpursWoman]

They showed a national guardsman carry someone out kicking & screaming because they didn't want to get out.

:wow

[SpursWoman]

An update on the "found" v. "looted" captioning and racism in the media accusations:


http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24539


Snopes is a beautiful thing. :fro

[ChumpDumper]

An update on the "found" v. "looted" captioning and racism in the media accusations:


http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24539


Snopes is a beautiful thing. :froWhy didn't the photographer just ask?

If I "find" your car in a parking lot, it's good to know you'll understand.

[SpursWoman]

Why didn't the photographer just ask?

If I "find" your car in a parking lot, it's good to know you'll understand.


And if you are starving and the only thing that will sustain you is eating out the dashboard and drinking the transmission fluid, then I'd be happy to let you have it.

[ChumpDumper]

And I'll still be stealing.

[SpursWoman]

And I'll still be stealing.


True.


But in situations like that I have no problem with people taking things that are essential to survival...which doesn't include plasma TV's. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to it whether it's legally acceptable or not.

And those captions weren't about whether looting for essentials was right or wrong, it was the racial aspect of it...and how quick people are to put 2 different captions together by 2 completely different photographers and automatically assume that it's racial and not even consider that there might be any other explaination.

[cherylsteele]

I am wondering what percentage if the population of the New Orleans area will actually want to go back or stay in San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, etc. I am thinking 30-40% set up their lives elsewhere.

[ChumpDumper]

And those captions weren't about whether looting for essentials was right or wrong, it was the racial aspect of it...and how quick people are to put 2 different captions together by 2 completely different photographers and automatically assume that it's racial and not even consider that there might be any other explaination.It's interesting enough that the photographer just ran with his assumption that the bread was "found" without asking -- and the other spokesman who had nothing to do with th e picture at all, simply suggested that the "looting" was witnessed, even thought the "finding" was not. These words are tremendously loaded, and as far as we still know, neither was used with any real knowledge of the circumstances. Damned irresponsible.

[cherylsteele]

According to the The Weather Channel today 9/04/05:

A broad trough of low pressure extends from the eastern Gulf and across the Bahamas. Convection will continue to fire in this area and tropical development is possible. A low pressure feature in the extreme eastern Bahamas also must be closely monitored for development.

Isn't this similar to how Katrina kinda got started, and in the same general area?

Is this another tropical system preparing to crank up?

[JoeChalupa]

Katrina's damage is extending far beyond the physical.

[cherylsteele]

Katrina's damage is extending far beyond the physical.

This is true, unfortunately very true. But that always happens with disaasters of this magnitutde.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Out of the tons of interviews I've seen the last 3 days on Fox and CNN, I have seen exactly one person say they couldn't get out due to no gas. Every other person has said "I didn't think it would be this bad."

So, while it's still tragic, once again the government apparently needs to be doing everything for people, right down to thinking and chewing their food for them.

I heard one good thing that is going to come out of this... FEMA has traditionally been a coordinating group for local government. After the trainwreck that is NO and La's evac plans and dealing with the aftermath, FEMA is going to assume responsibility in any large scale disasters here in the US instead of trusting local officials to be competent about it.

[Kori Ellis]

The City and State officials for LA and NO estimated 80% of the city was evacuated...

Now I am not a math genius...but 200,000 is a lot more than 80% of 495,000.

Why did you only use the 495K figure? The population of metro New Orleans is over 1.3M.

And by the way, poor people don't have five days of non-perishable food in their house to tote with them to the SuperDome. Elderly and sick people can't carry five days of food with them. The request for them to bring five days of food was good in theory. It doesn't work in reality.

[boutons]

From WP:

===========================

Left Behind

THE LACK OF National Guard troops because of the war in Iraq; the Bush administration's failure to protect coastal wetlands; the reorganization of the Federal Emergency Management Agency: All have been blamed, somewhat arbitrarily, for the stunning scenes of chaos at the New Orleans Superdome and convention center, for the unprecedented floodwaters in the city, and for the huge numbers of people without food or water. But if blame is to be laid and lessons are to be drawn, one point stands out as irrefutable: Emergency planners must focus much more on the fate of that part of the population that -- for reasons of poverty, infirmity, distrust of officialdom, lack of transportation or lack of information -- cannot be counted on to leave their homes after an evacuation order.

Tragically, authorities in New Orleans were aware of this problem. Certainly the numbers were known. Shirley Laska, an environmental and disaster sociologist at the University of New Orleans, had only recently calculated that some 57,000 New Orleans Parish households, or approximately 125,000 people, did not have access to cars or other private transportation. In the months before the storm, the city's emergency planners did debate the challenges posed by these numbers, which are much higher than in other hurricane-prone parts of the country, such as Florida. Because a rapid organization of so many buses would have been impractical, the city's emergency managers considered the use of trains and cruise ships. The New Orleans charity Operation Brother's Keeper had tried to get church congregations to match up car-owners with the carless, and it had produced a DVD on the subject of hurricane evacuations that was to be distributed later this month. Unfortunately, none of these plans was advanced enough to have had much impact this week.

Instead the city decided to use the Superdome as a "shelter of last resort." Following that decision, a major mistake was made: Not enough food, water or portable toilets were made available to accommodate the enormous number of people who turned up. No one in the federal, state or city governments appears to have been prepared for the possibility that thousands would be forced to stay there nearly a week. With some forethought, the National Guard troops who arrived yesterday could have been en route before, or even immediately after, the storm. Five days was too long to tell people to wait without supplies.

The question now is whether other major U.S. cities have focused on their immobile and impoverished residents to the degree that they should. Much of the emergency preparedness literature that has appeared on the Internet and elsewhere has focused on driving, on evacuation routes and on portable supplies. The events in New Orleans should force homeland security officials across the country to understand that this is not enough: Some thought must also be given to the fate of people who cannot or will not leave. The National Guard and FEMA should anticipate that some will remain behind, and food and water should be set aside for them. If fingers are to be pointed in the wake of this tragedy, this is one direction to point them.

==============================================

no car,
no money,
no bank balance,
no credit/atm cards,
no trust of officials,
no homeowner's/contents insurance,
not willing to walk away from their households and leave them to picked over by the criminals,
no means to hand-carry/roll 5 days of food, toiletries, minimal clothes.
limited mobility (even a lot of northside white people can't walk around HEB without an electric cart)
poor health, physically decrepit, 50+% severely overweight and morbidly obese

The NO poor were lucky, again, to have dodged hurricane Katrina.
What they couldn't dodge was the shrub/Repug govt's willful neglect of the levees over the last 5 years in face of opposition at every govt level and from the US ACoE.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol Some of you are fucks. I dare you to go down to one of the shelters and say to the refugee's faces what you say on this board. Especially you Whottt. I'm sure they'd be very receptive.

[Hook Dem]

Here is some information on the refineries that are down. I thought you all would find this interesting.

Refineries

• Valero Energy Corp.: St. Charles refinery in Norco, La., which produces 260,000 barrels a day remains shut but suffers no serious damage. The refinery is expected to restart on Sept. 12. Currently has no power and access is restricted, the company says. Krotz Springs refinery that produces 86,000 barrels a day is operating at 70% capacity due to trouble getting supply through pipelines, the company said.

• Motiva Enterprises: Norco, La., refinery that produces 225,000 barrels a day remains shut. Limited access to the facility has delayed a damage assessment, Motiva says. The company's Convent, La., refinery also remains shut but has suffered no damage that would affect a restart. Motiva hasn't given an estimate for a restart date.

• Murphy Oil Corp.: Meraux, La., refinery remains shut and has been evacuated. Murphy has no information on damage or a potential restart date and reports worsening flooding in the area.

• Exxon Mobil Corp.: Chalmette, La., refinery that produces 183,000 barrels a day remains shut and evacuated. Exxon has given no information on damage or a potential restart date and reports flooding in the area has worsened. Baton Rouge refinery that produces 494,000 barrels a day is in "cutback mode," operating at reduced rates due to supply problems.

• ConocoPhillips: Alliance refinery in Belle Chasse, La., that produces 255,000 barrels a day remains shut. The company has given no information on damage or a potential date for a restart. Plaquemines Parish reports extensive damage and television reports say there are whitecaps on the water in the streets of Belle Chasse, quoting State Treasurer John Kennedy. Exxon says it is doing flyovers.

• Marathon Oil Corp.: Garyville, La., refinery that produces 245,000 barrels a day remains shut. The company on Tuesday brought additional workers to the plant, which wasn't fully evacuated.

• Chevron Corp.: Pascagoula, Miss., refinery that produces 325,000 barrels a day remains shut and evacuated.

• Premcor: Memphis refinery that produces 190,000 barrels a day is reportedly producing at reduced rates due to crude-oil supply snags.

• Total SA: Port Arthur, Texas, refinery that produces 180,000 barrels a day is running at reduced rates due to a problem with a hydrogen compressor, not the storm.

[SpursWoman]

:lol Some of you are fucks. I dare you to go down to one of the shelters and say to the refugee's faces what you say on this board. Especially you Whottt. I'm sure they'd be very receptive.


Tell them what?

[Shelly]

http://www.calendarlive.com/movies/video/cl-et-rutten2sep02,2,7660915.column
TIM RUTTEN
A warning sent but left unheeded
Tim Rutten
Regarding Media

September 2, 2005


As commentators and public officials survey the morass of loss and desolation that once was a great American city called New Orleans, one of the words we hear and read over and over again is "unimaginable."

In fact, the tragedy that this week destroyed a vibrant metropolitan area that was home to 1.4 million people and the city proper that was a national cultural treasure was not simply imagined but foreseen with a prescience that now seems eerily precise.

These days, media criticism has become a kind of blood sport. One of its practitioners' most frequently repeated complaints is that mainstream news organizations have become increasingly — if not solely — reactive, retailing the sensation of the moment to an audience hooked on titillating irrelevancies.

Well, that didn't happen here.

Three years ago, New Orleans' leading local newspaper, the Times-Picayune, National Public Radio's signature nightly news program, "All Things Considered," and the New York Times each methodically and compellingly reported that the very existence of south Louisiana's leading city was at risk and hundreds of thousands of lives imperiled by exactly the sequence of events that occurred this week. All three news organizations also made clear that the danger was growing because of a series of public policy decisions and failure to allocate government funds to alleviate the danger.

The Times-Picayune, in fact, won numerous awards for John McQuaid and Mark Schleifstein's superbly conceived and executed five-part series — that's right, five-part — whose initial installment began with a headline reading: "It's only a matter of time before south Louisiana takes a direct hit from a major hurricane. Billions have been spent to protect us, but we grow more vulnerable every day." One of the separate stories in that first installment — each part consisted of multiple pieces supported by compelling graphics — began: "The risk is growing greater and no one can say how much greater."

The series' second part began: "It's a matter of when, not if. Eventually a major hurricane will hit New Orleans head on, instead of being just a close call. It's happened before and it'll happen again." In that installment, McQuaid and Schleifstein reported that "a major hurricane could decimate the region, but flooding from even a moderate storm could kill thousands. It's just a matter of time.... Evacuation is the most certain route to safety, but it may be a nightmare. And 100,000 without transportation will be left behind.... Hundreds of thousands would be left homeless, and it would take months to dry out the area and begin to make it livable. But there wouldn't be much for residents to come home to. The local economy would be in ruins....

"People left behind in an evacuation will be struggling to survive. Some will be housed at the Superdome, the designated shelter in New Orleans for people too sick or infirm to leave the city. Others will end up in last-minute emergency refuges that will offer minimal safety. But many will simply be on their own.... Thousands will drown while trapped in homes or cars by rising waters. Others will be washed away or crushed by debris. Survivors will end up trapped on roofs, in buildings or on high ground surrounded by water, with no means of escape and little food or fresh water, perhaps for several days."

Sound familiar?

Later, in August 2002, New York Times reporter Adam Cohen wrote that New Orleans "may be America's most architecturally distinctive and culturally rich city. But it is also a disaster waiting to happen.... If a bad hurricane hit, experts say, the city could fill up like a cereal bowl, killing tens of thousands and laying waste to the city's architectural heritage. If the Big One hit, New Orleans could disappear."

Cohen went on to report that, "So far, Washington has done little and New Orleans' response has been less than satisfying."

The reporter quoted Terry Tullier, head of the city's Office of Emergency Preparedness, as saying, "When I do presentations, I start by saying that 'when the Big One comes, many of you will die — let's get that out of the way.' "

Chilling then; worse now.

A little more than a month later, NPR's "All Things Considered" aired an extended two-part broadcast on New Orleans' peril that was, in its own way, every bit as compelling as the Times-Picayune's series. In its opening sequence, reporter Daniel Zwerdling accompanied scientist Joe Suhayda, a researcher from Louisiana State University, as he used an extending measuring rod to determine how high hurricane-driven flood waters might rise in the French Quarter if a levee gave way. Here's an excerpt from the transcript of what followed:

Suhayda: It's well above the second floor there and it's just about to the rooftop.

Zwerdling: Do you expect this kind of hurricane and this kind of flooding to hit New Orleans in our lifetime?

Suhayda: Well, I would say the probability is yes....

Zwerdling: So, basically, the part of New Orleans that most Americans and most people around the world think of as New Orleans would disappear underwater.

Suhayda: It would. That's right.

The NPR report went on to note that none of Suhayda's views were even remotely controversial in the scientific or engineering communities. This was not global warming — or even second-hand smoke. And, as Zwerdling went on to explain with great clarity, there was similar agreement that the steps taken by the federal and state government in earlier years to protect the city from smaller storms and to ensure that the Mississippi River would remain open to commerce had dramatically increased the danger from the inevitable larger storm. It was, in other words, the same conclusion the Times-Picayune's reporters reached.

Both organizations also agreed that a massive — and expensive — overhaul of the levee system was required, if the danger to life and property were to be alleviated.

So what happened in the three lost years between then and now?

Nothing.

And did the mainstream news media simply drop the issue, moving on to the next big thing, another victim of our real epidemic — national deficit disorder?

Not really. Since 2002, when all these reports ran, the Times-Picayune has published no fewer than nine stories reporting that the combination of tax cuts, the war in Iraq and the demands of homeland security had led President Bush's administration to repeatedly reject urgent requests from the Army Corps of Engineers and Louisiana's congressional delegation that it allocate the money to save New Orleans.

Today, while Bush personally surveys the consequences of his decisions, the staff of the Times-Picayune — driven from their offices by the flood waters — is busy putting out an electronic edition of a newspaper that, in this instance, has done just what a paper is supposed to do: serve the common good.

Politics may have failed the people of New Orleans. Politicians certainly failed them. They may have failed themselves by not demanding better. But their newspaper and other important segments of the American press did not fail them.

Nowadays, it often seems like every other third person with access to a mike or computer is a press critic, who thinks that their particular beef could be resolved by simply resorting to the good old-fashioned practice of shooting the messenger.

As it turns out, one of the truly unforeseen lessons of New Orleans is that whether you rhetorically gun down the media messengers — or simply ignore them — the result is a self-inflicted, sometimes fatal wound.

[SpursWoman]

Cases of dysentary reported in Biloxi from people drinking & brushing their teeth with water from the pipes.

:(

[SpursWoman]

Speaking of media....I was looking through some pictures and came across this one. Do you think pictures like this should be posted? Do you think it's disrepectful of the dead?


http://cdn.news.aol.com/aolnews_photos/08/03/20050903193709990010


I'm not sure how I feel about the morality of it, but it certainly breaks my heart. :(

[Shelly]

I don't know if it's disrespectful of the dead, but I think it is to the deceased's relatives.

[SpursWoman]

I don't know if it's disrespectful of the dead, but I think it is to the deceased's relatives.


I guess that's what I meant ... I've heard about all of the bodies floating around and we all know they are out there, but it doesn't make it any easier to actually see.

[Shelly]

Oh, I agree. And I'd hate for a relative that is looking for a loved one to come across that picture and realize it's them.

[SpursWoman]

John Henry picked up a pair of hiking shoes, a pair of tennis shoes that looked unworn, packs of cigarettes and a variety of spirits, including bottles of cognac and Jack Daniels. "We're looting the people who were looting,'' he said, cackling. "I love it. I have to admit it.''

He also picked up a T-shirt showing the Three Stooges. "Larry, Curley and Moe. I'm keeping this one. It stinks, though,'' he said.

[timvp]

Whottt's got his lips stuck on the administrations azz to the point that he's lost all credibility. That's his main fault; he'd rather prove that he's always been right than discuss the truth of the matter.

[cherylsteele]

Not to do be disrespectful or anything but, what is that on the persons head?
Is it a hat, looks odd if it is.

[SpursWoman]

Not to do be disrespectful or anything but, what is that on the persons head?
Is it a hat, looks odd if it is.

It looks like his wallet, like perhaps someone took it out of his pocket, removed any of it's contents, and then threw it down on his head.

That's what it looks like to me anyway. :(

Hopefully it just washed up there.....

[timvp]

I've been watching the news all morning and they have been showing person after person who still, with no electricity, starving and no clean water...standing knee-deep in FILTH with young children that STILL ARE REFUSING TO LEAVE THEIR HOMES.

They've done surveys so far at the refugee centers and 3/4 of the people that had to be rescued were there because they didn't think it would be that bad, so they ignored the warnings.

I'm not sure how they picked their sample, but at least it's nice to know that so many are giving these people the benefit of the doubt that they couldn't get out, for whatever reason....when that just doesn't seem like that's the case.

And I know that there were people that couldn't because of age or illness or money...but I don't think these were the majority.

What I don't get is why people are so obsessed with figuring out why people didn't leave. Whatever the reasons, the people are there and need rescuing. Every city and federal model of what would happen in a cat 5 hurricane predicted that 20-25% of the population wouldn't heed the warnings. That was a given going into this.

If we were told to evacuate San Antonio, guess what ... 20-25% of the population wouldn't. There's no use in figuring out why.

To me, it makes people feel better if they hear that the N.O. citizens had an opportunity to get out and didn't. To some, it makes the death toll easier to handle.

Sickening.



P.S.

When the day comes and The Big One hits San Francisco and kills thousands and thousands, are these people going to come with there "well they should have gotten out" stance? Doubtful ... even though everyone knows that when the major earthquake hits, thousands if not hundreds of thousands will die.

What is the difference?

[Shelly]

P.S.

When the day comes and The Big One hits San Francisco and kills thousands and thousands, are these people going to come with there "well they should have gotten out" stance? Doubtful ... even though everyone knows that when the major earthquake hits, thousands if not hundreds of thousands will die.

What is the difference?

The difference is that they knew the hurricane was coming. You can't predict an earthquake.

Apples and oranges.

Or are you going on the premise that people in SF know it will eventually come?

[timvp]

The difference is that they knew the hurricane was coming. You can't predict an earthquake.

Apples and oranges.

Or are you going on the premise that people in SF know it will eventually come?

I agree that it's not exactly the same but it's similar. Tomorrow it could strike and destroy the city, no?

Isn't it putting your life in mother nature's hand?

[Kori Ellis]

The difference is that they knew the hurricane was coming. You can't predict an earthquake.

Apples and oranges.

Or are you going on the premise that people in SF know it will eventually come?

Well some people on this forum have said that they don't feel sorry for anyone in N.O. because they knew their city was under sealevel and they should have figured that this would eventually happen. So I guess the same could be said for people who live on a fault line with that logic.

[Kori Ellis]

One thing that I don't understand is that many of the politicians/leaders (including the head of Homeland Security) have said (paraphrasing) we never had any idea that the flooding was going to be this bad. So we are unprepared for the damage/rescue/etc.

But then on the other hand, they say everyone knew that they needed to GTFO -- we warned them to get out of the city because we knew that there was a chance the bowl would fill up and it would be catastrophic.

So which is it? This is not something that you can change your stance on to meet your agenda. If you knew it would be this bad, then the response/reaction has been subpar. If you didn't know, then why would you expect that the citizens would evacuate?

I know the answer is that they did know and they did warn people. And they even said the night the hurricane was hitting that only 80% of the areas 1.2M people had gotten out. So they can't really use the "we never knew it would be like this" excuse.

[Vashner]

It's like the Missile Interceptor system.. AKA part of the defunt Reagan star wars defense system. Democrats been trying to shut it down for years saying it's a waste. Bush restored funding.

What it does is shoot a rogue nuke missile down. Maybe it's 50% 50%...
Would you rather have the chance to give the order as a POTUS to try to shoot it down or just let a city be destroyed?

Just saying any city can be wiped out.. it only takes 30 minutes for an ICBM to get into low orbit and launch it's re-entry vehicle.

We need to help any city that's been wiped out. N.O. is a great city.

[Shelly]

I agree that it's not exactly the same but it's similar. Tomorrow it could strike and destroy the city, no?

Isn't it putting your life in mother nature's hand?

Agree

[Shelly]

One thing that I don't understand is that many of the politicians/leaders (including the head of Homeland Security) have said (paraphrasing) we never had any idea that the flooding was going to be this bad. So we are unprepared for the damage/rescue/etc.

But then on the other hand, they say everyone knew that they needed to GTFO -- we warned them to get out of the city because we knew that there was a chance the bowl would fill up and it would be catastrophic.

So which is it? This is not something that you can change your stance on to meet your agenda. If you knew it would be this bad, then the response/reaction has been subpar. If you didn't know, then why would you expect that the citizens would evacuate?

I know the answer is that they did know and they did warn people. And they even said the night the hurricane was hitting that only 80% of the areas 1.2M people had gotten out. So they can't really use the "we never knew it would be like this" excuse.


Yet, the media knew it. As in the LA Times article I posted this morning.

[Kori Ellis]

Also I think when they interview people in the shelters and they say that they "decide to stay" that doesn't necessarily mean that they actually could have gotten out. If you don't have a car, money, or a means, then you "decide to stay", you are deciding that because you don't have any other choice.

I think many more people could have gotten out if they would have started trying like the Wednesday beforehand. But when people didn't really start evacuating until Friday night, there was really a limit on how many people could have gotten out even if they tried. The freeways were packed. The flights were overbooked. And the ones without cars (100K) really didn't have a choice.

I don't really care why people "decided to stay" anymore. I just want everyone in this country, government and citizens alike, to help them.

Many people have died already and many many more are going to die of disease.

This is truly a tragic time.

[Kori Ellis]

Yet, the media knew it. As in the LA Times article I posted this morning.

So how could the Home Land Security Commissioner say that they didn't know it could be this bad?

That bothers me a lot. People in positions of authority need to be able to sack up to responsibility.

[Shelly]

Every time I see that picture of all those school buses parked, it makes me sick. They could have gotten them out.

[timvp]

Another thing is that this was the third time in the last two years that the people of NO had been told to GTFO. The last two times, the hurricanes missed. This time, honestly, the hurricane missed again. People were saying it was going to be a Cat 5 direct strike. It turned out to be a Cat 3 missing well to the East.

If it wasn't for the levees breaking and the snail pace of a reaction time, this hurricane would have maybe killed hundreds. Now you can expect thousands.

[Shelly]

So how could the Home Land Security Commissioner say that they didn't know it could be this bad?

That bothers me a lot. People in positions of authority need to be able to sack up to responsibility.

Exactly. It was there in black in white.

[SpursWoman]

What I don't get is why people are so obsessed with figuring out why people didn't leave. Whatever the reasons, the people are there and need rescuing. Every city and federal model of what would happen in a cat 5 hurricane predicted that 20-25% of the population wouldn't heed the warnings. That was a given going into this.

If we were told to evacuate San Antonio, guess what ... 20-25% of the population wouldn't. There's no use in figuring out why.

To me, it makes people feel better if they hear that the N.O. citizens had an opportunity to get out and didn't. To some, it makes the death toll easier to handle.

Sickening.



P.S.

When the day comes and The Big One hits San Francisco and kills thousands and thousands, are these people going to come with there "well they should have gotten out" stance? Doubtful ... even though everyone knows that when the major earthquake hits, thousands if not hundreds of thousands will die.

What is the difference?

Maybe because if more of the able-bodied people had left on their own we would have had more resources and time to get to the people that had legitimate problems leaving other than denial or stubborness? A lot fewer casualties perhaps? Maybe a disbelief that some would put themselves and their families at risk when theoretically they didn't have to? Or maybe it's just the equivalent of when a *normal* tragedy occurs you ask "why didn't I leave 5 minutes earlier?" "or why didn't I listen to so&so?" or "I knew I shouldn't have bought Firestone tires...". You know at this point it's moot but it's still mind-boggling trying to take in the enormity of the situation, even though *we* weren't directly involved in it. Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

But in any case, it's water under the bridge ... and you're right ... they were still there and they all need(ed) help getting out.

Now I just sit and try to grasp that there's people who even now don't want to leave. You know the reasons...don't want to leave everything they own...scared...don't understand the severity...or just plain bull-headedness. But it escapes me anyway.

But yeah, it makes me feel better to justify the deaths of thousands on Darwin at work.

[timvp]

But yeah, it makes me feel better to justify the deaths of thousands on Darwin at work.

Sarcasm, I assume.







P.S.

What are your feelings if San Francisco falls into the Pacific tomorrow?

[Shelly]

Sarcasm, I assume.







P.S.

What are your feelings if San Francisco falls into the Pacific tomorrow?


You know there are major fault lines in NYC don't you? God forbid those ever become active.

A lot of the damage was in the Marina district, which is built on fill.

Same thing will happen to Newport Beach, CA. All built on land fill and there's a big fault line that runs through there also.

[timvp]

You know there are major fault lines in NYC don't you? God forbid those ever become active.

A lot of the damage was in the Marina district, which is built on fill.

Same thing will happen to Newport Beach, CA. All built on land fill and there's a big fault line that runs through there also.

True, but FEMA's two biggest worries over the years have been:

1) 8.0 hits San Francisco.
2) Cat 4+ hits New Orleans.

[Shelly]

True, but FEMA's two biggest worries over the years have been:

1) 8.0 hits San Francisco.
2) Cat 4+ hits New Orleans.

Honestly, I don't think the big one will be on the San Andreas. It's probably gonna be some fault line they don't even know about. I'm not positive (and Kori may know), but I don't think they even knew about the fault line in the Northridge quake.

Anyway, if there's any positive to come out of this disasters, is that they will be better prepared next time.


Hopefully.

[Kori Ellis]

I'm not positive (and Kori may know), but I don't think they even knew about the fault line in the Northridge quake.

That's correct, they didn't know until it happened.

[timvp]

The inevitability of a damaging earthquake still confronts everybody in the Bay Area, and we still risk substantial damage. A new study, released in 2003 by the United States Geological Survey, says that there is a 62 percent chance of a M>=6.7 earthquake during the next 30 years and that the quake could strike at any time, including today. In other words, scientists think that a magnitude 6.7 or larger earthquake is nearly twice as likely to happen as not to happen. This is a substantial increase, since in 1988, scientists thought the chance for such an earthquake was 50 percent (just as likely to occur as not to occur) within 30 years.

Those dumbass, crazy, irresponsible people living in the Bay Area deserve to die.

[/sarcasm]

[SpursWoman]

Sarcasm, I assume.







P.S.

What are your feelings if San Francisco falls into the Pacific tomorrow?

Very much so sarcasm....my heart's too soft to be that damn cold.



And if San Francisco fell into the Pacific tomorrow?

I'd alternate between cursing all of the people who parished for deciding to live in such a dangerous place in the first place and get myself to any media outlet I could and go on wild rants on how it's all a conspiracy of the Bush Administration because of his hatred of gay people.

:spin


And I didn't even see your post right above mine before I wrote that. :wow :lol

[Kori Ellis]

I could and go on wild rants on how it's all a conspiracy of the Bush Administration because of his hatred for gay people.

:lmao

You know that someone on this forum would say that it was a man-made earthquake created just for that purpose. :)

[Shelly]

:lmao

Hey! My kids are native San Franciscoians. I resent that gay remark.

[timvp]

:lmao

You know that someone on this forum would say that it was a man-made earthquake created just for that purpose. :)

Yeah, we were talking about it at the GTG. NO kills blacks. SF kills gays.

Win-win.

:)

[timvp]

:lmao

Hey! My kids are native San Franciscoians. I resent that gay remark.

As long as they don't excel at video games, you'll know they are straight.


























:pctoss

[Shelly]

:lol

[SpursWoman]

:lmao

You know that someone on this forum would say that it was a man-made earthquake created just for that purpose. :)


Oh, I know...there's at least one in every crowd. :lol


I think a few of us are experiencing the stages of grief...denial, anger, bargaining....at least I hope so...because if not there are some seriously twisted people around here. :wow :lol

[Spurminator]

Yeah, we were talking about it at the GTG. NO kills blacks. SF kills gays.

Win-win.

:)


And they're all Democrats...

Hmmm. Karl Rove, anyone?

:fro

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You know that someone on this forum would say that it was a man-made earthquake created just for that purpose.

I bet Dan's already got a post saved in his documents folder for when it happens :lol

[cherylsteele]

It looks like his wallet, like perhaps someone took it out of his pocket, removed any of it's contents, and then threw it down on his head.

That's what it looks like to me anyway. :(

Hopefully it just washed up there.....

That is the first thing I thought of when I saw it the photo....if so and he was robbed....that is pathetic whoever did it. If they ever catch them the thief should be shot.

In this type of disaster we see the best and worst of mankind...I guess that is the worst. :depressed :cry :(

[MannyIsGod]

i thought they were putting his wallet there for indentification purposes?

[HB22inSA]

Well, I was very wrong about the enormity of this storm.

I didn't think but a few hundred people would die, but they're talking thousands now, and a mass evacuation of the city was also unexpected by me.

I can't even watch the coverage on TV because it makes me sick to my stomach and gets me very depressed.

Damn.

[SpursWoman]

i thought they were putting his wallet there for indentification purposes?


That's definitely a better way to interpret it....I'll hold on to that one. :)

Although in his pocket would have been better to ensure it'd still be there. :fro

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Amid increasing criticism for his suckage, the mayor thinks the CIA is going to off him...

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7000018155


New Orleans Mayor: "CIA Will Wipe Me Out"

September 3, 2005 10:02 p.m. EST

Douglas Maher - All Headline News Staff Reporter

New Orleans, Louisiana (AHN) - Apparently suffering from stress and a bit of paranoia, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin tells CNN Saturday night that he believes the CIA will "wipe him out" after his criticism of President Bush and the Federal Government in response to Hurricane Katrina.

Mayor Nagin seemed to have calmed down after meeting with President Bush for two hours on Friday but became stressed again over the current situation still unfolding in his city.

The Mayor has come under serious scrutiny and criticism in the last 72 hours after photos of parking lots filled with school buses that were sitting in a foot of water were released on the Internet. Many critics of the Mayor and Gov. Blanco say the buses could have saved an estimated 20,000 people if they had been used for emergency evacuations which President Bush had declared two days before Katrina hit.

Nine stockpiles of fire-and-rescue equipment strategically placed around the country to be used in the event of a catastrophe still have not been pressed into service in New Orleans, CNN reports Saturday night. Responding to a CNN inquiry, Department of Homeland Security spokesman Marc Short said Friday, "The gear has not been moved because none of the governors in the hurricane-ravaged area has requested it."

A federal official says the department's Office for Domestic Preparedness reminded the Louisiana and Mississippi Governors' offices about the stockpiles on Wednesday and Thursday, but neither governor had requested it.

As the picture becomes much more clear many in Congress believe that a total collapse of communications on the local and state level contributed to the catastrophic conditions the city of New Orleans has been under.

"It has become apparent that after President Bush declared the state of Louisiana a state of emergency a few days before the hurricane hit, communication with the White House and FEMA from city officials in New Orleans and the Governor collapsed," says Senator Dr. Bill Frist, who is currently helping victims with medical needs around the city.

"Our priority now is to save as many lives as possible, and things are improving by the hour," adds Frist.

[angel_luv]

Hey Guys,

This is a letter from the pastor of my congregation's sister church.
He is in Mobile and is one of many eyewitnesses to the tragedy caused by Katrina.

I thought you would like to read what he has to say.

There were some personal updates in the letter which I left out to protect people's privacy.

FR:
SUBJECT: Hurricane Update from the Coast

I am now back online and able to communicate; our phone situation remains dicey,
so I thought I'd just send a general e-mail update.

Things are getting back to normal in Mobile/Baldwin. South Mobile County and
parts of West Mobile are still cleaning up and without power, though. South
Mobile County or anything near the Bay were heavily damaged by flooding.
Fairhope was hit hard, too.

We have power here in Daphne and there is *some* gasoline, though it's sporadic
and goes quickly. The Bayway is a nightmare for travelling, especially East
bound. The Causeway is still closed and heavily damaged. I-65 Mobile River
bridge way to the north may be the best bet for east-west travel between Mobile and Baldwin...although the Bayway may improve by the weekend. A floating house, washed into the Bay by the storm, hit the Bayway, so the Interstate was closed for a day afterwards to check it for structural integrity. An oil rig broke loose and hit the Cochrane-Africatown Bridge and closed it for a couple of days also. (Another oil rig washed up on Dauphin Island.)

Dauphin Island (West End) and Bayou La Batre were flooded very badly. Two
deaths in Alabama have been attributed to Katrina.

Mississippi is even worse than the media is reporting. Mississippi has
confirmed nearly 200 deaths; that toll could double. I had to travel through
parts of Biloxi, Ocean Springs, Gautier, and Pascagoula and was shocked by the damage--and we didn't even get anywhere near the beachfront. Severe destruction covers all of southern Mississippi south of Hattiesburg and then all of eastern Mississippi along the Alabama line up to Tennesee.

Louisiana is far worse. I spoke with the pastor from Word of Faith
Church in east New Orleans. He said their building was under 14 feet of water.
He and his family had lost everything...homes, possessions. He said all of the church members had lost eveything...houses, jobs, places of businesses, banks, pharmacies, grocery stores. He said New Orleans is even worse than the media can show. Thousands are likely dead. It will be months before any citizens are allowed back into New Orleans.

(Visit www.al.com for many compelling pictures and images of the storm's impact, from Florida to Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and even Georgia.)

Slidell is devastated, as is most of the north shore of Lake Ponchartrain. The
I-10 bridge into New Orleans is gone. The Covington/New Orleans bridge is
severely damaged and still closed.

What's happening in New Orleans is beyond anything I've ever seen in the USA.
"Anarchy" doesn't began to describe it. Many are still trapped on
rooftops and in attics. Others wander the streets aimlessly or sleep on
Interstate highrises where floodwaters still sit below. Women and children and elderly are being victimized by thugs armed with AK-47s. Rescue workers are being shot and shot at. Emergency generators and equipment are being stolen.
Armed gangs roam the city. So much of our personal family history is in
NOLA...I am heartbroken by what I see.

I don't know to what degree the city can ever come back. The filth, squalor,
and devastation left behind by the storm will take years to repair. The
horrific behavior of some of the citizenry cannot ever be repaired, apart from a miracle of God's grace. But, remember...God is gracious. And so, too, must we be.

We are setting aside a fund in CSM (www.csmpublishing.org) for Hurricane Relief and asking anyone who can to give to it. (We will update our website as soon as we can.) We will disburse the funds directly through related churches in Mississippi and Lousiana. We are asking them to make checks to CSM and designate "Hurricane Relief."

Covenant Church of Mobile will receive a special relief offering on Sunday,
Sept. 11. (An appropriate date.) We all need to pray. For Gulf Coast
residents, this is our tsunami, our 9/11. This will not only affect the Gulf
Coast but the whole nation. The ramifications are severe. Everyone should
consider taking in a refugee. Nearly 1.5 million people will be homeless for up
to 6 months or longer.

That's all I can say for now. All hell has broken loose. God's people must,
can, and will rise up and manifest His Kingdom now. The righteousness, peace, and joy of the Lord in the Holy Spirit are needed now more than ever. God help us all to be who He has called us to be. "Nothing is too difficult for Thee."

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/04/katrina.impact/top.2003.crash.close.pool.jpg

Rescue chopper crashes, everyone survived.

[Ginofan]

In comments on Thursday, Sep. 1, in an interview with Diane Sawyer of ABC News, President George W. Bush said, "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees. They did anticipate a serious storm. But these levees got breached."

In comments to the press on Sep. 3, Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff remarked, "That 'perfect storm' of a combination of catastrophes exceeded the foresight of the planners, and maybe anybody's foresight", and called the disaster "breathtaking in its surprise."

It's not our fault," said Army Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, in charge of the deployment of National Guard troops in New Orleans. "The storm came and flooded the city."

In other words, Katrina was an Act of God no one could have foreseen, and the politicians we elected to protect us from disaster are not responsible for the unimaginable horror we have witnessed this week.

A horror unimagined by anyone, except by every hurricane scientist and government emergency management official for the past forty years and more. It was a certainty that New Orleans would suffer a catastrophe like this. Every 70 years, on average, the central Gulf Coast has a Category 4 or 5 hurricane pass within 80 miles of a given point. Sometimes you get lucky--for a while. New Orleans had gone over 150 years without a strike by a hurricane capable of overwhelming the levees. Sometimes you get unlucky. There's no guarantee that New Orleans won't get hit by another major hurricane this year. We are in the midst of an extraordinary period of hurricane activity, the likes of which has not been seen in recorded history. Hurricanes Ivan and Dennis, which both had storm surges capable of breaching the levees in New Orleans, smashed into Pensacola in the past year. Either of these storms could have destroyed New Orleans, had they taken a slight wobble westward earlier in their track.

Hurricanes are an inescapable part of nature's way on the Gulf Coast. Nature doesn't care about tax cuts and fiscal years and budget crunches. Nature doesn't care that a city of 500,000 people situated below sea level lies in its path. It was certain that New Orleans would sooner or later get hit by a hurricane that would breach the levees. How could the director of Homeland Security not be familiar with this huge threat to the security of this nation? How could the President not know? How could all the presidents and politicians we elected, from Eisenhower to Clinton, not know?

The answer is that they all knew. But the politicians we elect don't care about the poor people in New Orleans, because poor people don't have a lobbyist in Washington. The poor people don't make big campaign contributions, and those big campaign contributions are vital to getting elected. In all of the Congressional and Presidential races held over the past ten years, over 90% were won by the candidate that raised the most money.

So there was little effort given to formulate a plan to evacuate the 100,000 poor residents of New Orleans with no transportation of their own for a Category 4 or 5 hurricane. To do so would have cost tens of millions of dollars, money that neither the city, nor the state, nor the federal government was willing to spend. Why spend money that would be wasted on a bunch of poor people? The money was better spent on projects to please the politicians' wealthy campaign contributors. So the plan was to let them die. And they died, as we experts all knew they would. Huge numbers of them. And they keep dying, still. We don't know how many. Since the plan was to let them die, the city of New Orleans made sure they had a good supply of body bags on hand. Only 10,000 body bags, but since Katrina didn't hit New Orleans head-on, 10,000 will probably be enough.

Admittedly, it is very difficult to safely evacuate 100,000 people with a Category 4 or 5 hurricane bearing down on you. There are only a few routes out of the city, and a full 72 hours of warning are needed to get everyone out. That's asking a lot, as hurricanes are very difficult to predict that far in advance. The National Hurricane Center did pretty well, giving New Orleans a full 60 hours to evacuate. The Hurricane Center forecasted on Friday afternoon that Katrina would hit New Orleans as a major hurricane on Monday, which is what happened. New Orleans had time to implement its plan to bus the city's poor out. However, this plan had two very serious problems--it wasn't enacted in time, and it could only get out 20% of the people in a best case scenario.

The mandatory evacuation order was not given until Sunday, just 20 hours before the hurricane. I have not been able to ascertain from press accounts when the busses actually started picking up people. The mayor says 50,000 made it to the Superdome and other "shelters of last resort", leaving another 50,000 to face the flood waters in their homes. Although 80% of the city was evacuated, it is unclear whether any of the city's poor made it out by bus. And it is very fortunate that Katrina did not hit the city head-on, or else most of those in the Superdome and other "shelters of last resort" would have perished. The death toll from Katrina would have easily surpassed 50,000.

Even if the evacuation plan had been launched 72 hours in advance, it almost certainly would have failed. A local New Orleans news station, nola.com, reported in 2002 on the evacuation plan thusly:

In an evacuation, buses would be dispatched along their regular routes throughout the city to pick up people and go to the Superdome, which would be used as a staging area. From there, people would be taken out of the city to shelters to the north.

Some experts familiar with the plans say they won't work.

"That's never going to happen because there's not enough buses in the city," said Charley Ireland, who retired as deputy director of the New Orleans Office of Emergency Preparedness in 2000. "Between the RTA and the school buses, you've got maybe 500 buses, and they hold maybe 40 people
each. It ain't going to happen."

The plan has other potential pitfalls.

No signs are in place to notify the public that the regular bus stops are also the stops for emergency evacuation. In Miami Beach, Fla., every other bus stop sports a huge sign identifying it as a hurricane evacuation stop.

It's also unclear whether the city's entire staff of bus drivers will remain. A union spokesman said that while drivers are aware of the plan, the union contract lacks a provision requiring them to stay.


So, if one does the math, 500 busses times 40 people per bus yields 20,000 people that could have been evacuated in a best-case scenario. Only 20,000 out of 100,000. That isn't a half-hearted effort, it's a one-fifth hearted, criminal effort. We're talking about the lives of 80,000 people or more sacrificed, from a disaster that was certain to happen. By not having a plan to get New Orleans' poor out, our government caused the unbelievable suffering and the needless deaths of thousands of Americans. This was not a natural disaster caused by an act of God, it was an unnatural disaster. In his excellent 2001 book, Acts of God: The Unnatural History of Natural Disaster in America, Ted Steinberg writes: "Calling such events acts of God has long been a way to evade moral responsibility for death and destruction." He shows in the book how countless politicians over the past one hundred years have done their best to evade this moral responsibility when preventable disasters struck. Our current leaders are no different.

The most prosperous and technologically advanced nation in history surely could have done better. Was it really too expensive to have the vehicles, people, and workable plan in place needed to evacuate New Orleans? "A society is measured by how it treats the weak and vulnerable", said George W. Bush in his State of the Union of Feb 2, 2005. By that measure, the people of this country have responded magnificently. The outpouring of aid, sympathy and prayers for those affected has been tremendous. But by that same standard, our government has failed. Its not just the current administration--every elected government since the days of Eisenhower has failed us. As I've outlined above, the problem is not likely to go away until the amount of money a candidate raises is no longer the primary factor determining who gets elected. Our elected officials won't care for the poor, as long as it is the rich who determine who get elected.

What can we do to help prevent such a disaster from recurring? Well, I encourage all of you to support election reform initiatives such as public campaign financing and Instant Runoff Voting (IRV) over the coming years. Maybe then I can check a box to vote for a candidate who will actually care for the needs of the poor in New Orleans and elsewhere in this county, instead of the usual "lesser of two evils" from the miserable two-party system that let thousands die and tens of thousands more suffer so unbearably.

Dr. Jeff Masters
link (http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/show.html)

I just read this from Jeff Masters's blog. Granted I'm not political in any way, but it just seems ridiculous to me that people keep saying "it's not our fault, we didn't know" when in fact scientists have been saying "it's only a matter of time" for many years. Evacuations should've happened sooner, things should've been planned better...We should've anticipated this happening. I know it's like saying "should've, would've, could've" right now after it's all happened, but honestly...I can't name a city more vunerable than New Orleans. I think we only have ourselves and our government to blame for this.

[cherylsteele]

i thought they were putting his wallet there for indentification purposes?

I hope you are right Manny.

[Kori Ellis]

I don't know if this was posted ..


The first group of refugees who will take shelter in Arizona arrived Sunday in Phoenix. With more than 230,000 already in Texas, Gov. Rick Perry ordered emergency officials to begin preparations to airlift some of them to other states that have offered help.

[Kori Ellis]

New Orleans Begins Counting Its Dead By ROBERT TANNER, AP National Writer

New Orleans turned much of its attention Sunday to gathering up and counting the dead across a ghastly landscape awash in perhaps thousands of corpses. "It is going to be about as ugly of a scene as I think you can imagine," the nation's homeland security chief warned.

As authorities struggled to keep order, police shot eight people, killing five or six, after gunmen opened fire on a group of contractors traveling across a bridge on their way to make repairs, authorities said.

Air and boat crews searched flooded neighborhoods for survivors, and federal officials urged those still left in New Orleans to leave for their own safety.

To expedite the rescues, the Coast Guard requested through the media that anyone stranded hang out brightly colored or white linens or something else to draw attention. But with the electricity out though much of the city, it was not known if the message was being received.

With large-scale evacuations completed at the Superdome and Convention Center, the death toll was not known. But bodies were everywhere: floating in canals, slumped in wheelchairs, abandoned on highways and medians and hidden in attics.

"I think it's evident it's in the thousands," Health and Human Services Secretary Michael Leavitt said Sunday on CNN, echoing predictions by city and state officials last week. The U.S. Public Health Service said one morgue alone, at a St. Gabriel prison, expected 1,000 to 2,000 bodies.

In the first official count in the New Orleans area, Louisiana emergency medical director Louis Cataldie said authorities had verified 59 deaths — 10 of them at the Superdome.

"We need to prepare the country for what's coming," Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said on "Fox News Sunday." "We are going to uncover people who died, maybe hiding in houses, got caught by the flood. ... It is going to be about as ugly of a scene as I think you can imagine."

Chertoff said rescuers have encountered a number of people who said they did not want to evacuate.

"That is not a reasonable alternative," he said. "We are not going to be able to have people sitting in houses in the city of New Orleans for weeks and months while we de-water and clean this city. ... The flooded places, when they're de-watered, are not going to be sanitary."

Evacuations continued late Sunday as Coast Guard helicopters picked up refugees from a dry stretch of Interstate 10 where they had been dropped off by rescue boats.

"We're not satisfied to leave, but they say it's going to be three or four months, so we need to go somewhere where we can have a life," said Tommy McDaniel, 38.

One of the last groups taken out Sunday was a family of six that included 3-year-old twins. The Coast Guard planned to resume evacuation flights Monday morning.

Earlier in the evening, a civilian helicopter crashed near the Danziger Bridge, but the two people on board escaped with only cuts and scrapes, according to Mark Smith of the state office of emergency preparedness.

In Sunday's confrontation, 14 contractors on their way to help plug the breech in the 17th Street Canal were traveling across the bridge under police escort when they came under fire, said John Hall, a spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers. Police shot at eight people carrying guns, killing five or six, Deputy Police Chief W.J. Riley said. None of the contractors was injured, authorities said.

In addition to the lawlessness, civilian deaths and uncertainty about their families, New Orleans' police have had to deal with suicides in their ranks. Two officers took their lives, including the department spokesman, Paul Accardo, who died Saturday, according to Riley. Both shot themselves in the head, he said.

"I've got some firefighters and police officers that have been pretty much traumatized," Mayor Ray Nagin said. "And we've already had a couple of suicides, so I am cycling them out as we speak. ... They need physical and psychological evaluations."

The strain was apparent in other ways. Aaron Broussard, president of Jefferson Parish, dropped his head and cried on NBC's "Meet the Press."

"The guy who runs this building I'm in, emergency management, he's responsible for everything. His mother was trapped in St. Bernard nursing home, and every day she called him and said, `Are you coming, son? Is somebody coming?' And he said, `And yeah, Momma, somebody's coming to get you. Somebody's coming to get you on Tuesday. Somebody's coming to get you on Wednesday. Somebody's coming to get you Thursday. Somebody's coming to get you on Friday' — and she drowned Friday night. She drowned on Friday night," Broussard said.

"Nobody's coming to get her, nobody's coming to get her. The secretary's promise, everybody's promise. They've had press conferences — I'm sick of the press conferences. For God's sakes, shut up and send us somebody."

Hundreds of thousands of people already have been evacuated, seeking safety in Texas, Tennessee and other states. The first group of refugees who will take shelter in Arizona arrived Sunday in Phoenix. With more than 230,000 already in Texas, Gov. Rick Perry ordered emergency officials to begin preparations to airlift some of them to other states that have offered help.

What will happen to the refugees in the long term was not known.

Back in New Orleans, walk-up stragglers at the Convention Center were checked by Navy medics before they were evacuated. Lt. Andy Steczo said he treated people for bullet wounds, knife wounds, infections, dehydration and chronic problems such as diabetes.

"We're cleaning them up the best we can and then shipping them out," Steczo said.

One person he treated was 56-year-old Pedro Martinez, who had a gash on his ankle and cuts on his knuckle and forearm. Martinez said he was injured while helping people onto rescue boats. "I don't have any medication and it hurts. I'm glad to get out of here," he said.

In a devastated section on the edge of the French Quarter, people went into a store, whose windows were already shattered, and took out bottles of soda and juice.

A corpse of an elderly man lay wrapped in a child's bedsheet decorated with the cartoon characters Batman, Robin and the Riddler. The body was in a wooden cart on Rampart Street, one shoe on, one shoe off.

Rene Gibson, 42, driving a truck while hunting for water and ice, said people are not going to leave willingly. "People been (here) all their life. They don't know nothing else," he said.

Amid the tragedy, about two dozen people gathered in the French Quarter for the Decadence Parade, an annual Labor Day gay celebration. Matt Menold, 23, a street musician wearing a sombrero and a guitar slung over his back, said: "It's New Orleans, man. We're going to celebrate."

In New Orleans' Garden District, a woman's body lay at the corner of Jackson Avenue and Magazine Street — a business area with antique shops on the edge of blighted housing. The body had been there since at least Wednesday. As days passed, people covered the corpse with blankets or plastic.

By Sunday, a short wall of bricks had been built around the body, holding down a plastic tarpaulin. On it, someone had spray-painted a cross and the words, "Here lies Vera. God help us." :(

[angel_luv]

The Freeman Coliseum is now open from 8 a.m - 7 p.m. as the official volunteer center.

Anyone 18 or older is welcome.

I just saw the report on KSAT News.

[MannyIsGod]

That last entry by Masters was fucking brilliant.

If you don't want to classify the response of the government as rascist, you surely can't deny that it is at the very least classcist.

[Spurfect]

that is crazy that the people were shooting at contractors there to help rebuild. Police shot and killed six of them.. wow. crazy things going on :(

[whottt]

I would say ignorant, uneducted . . . most of these guys probvably had nowhere to go.


So better to drown?

Put it this way...the animals in fucking Sri Lanka had no warning, even less money than the poorest person, and they still figured out it was better to get the fuck out of the way of the big water coming through.

These people knew the scale of the hurricane, they knew the potential for what could happen...#1 it was all over the news...#2 any time you go to NO they tell you about how the city works. And the mayor ordered an mandatory evacuation.

President called for it.
Govnor called for it.
Mayor ordered it.

Mandatory evacution...

So how the fuck that makes them racist or the fuckups on this is beyond me.








If you are middle class and you tried to ride it out, then you cannot be excused. I don't think those people were the majority, though.

I call bullshit...most of these people have jobs, are you telling me that these people are never able to leave their houses? IF they can do it any other time why can't they do it when the mayor orders an evacuation.

The children and the extremely elderly are the only ones that have iron clad excuses.



It's not all on the Government. But, shit, the rescue effort has been poorly organized and the government, at all three levels, Federal, State and City, carries partially the blame.

The Federal Government ended up having to do the job for everyone who could leave but didn't...for the city government and for the state government...and they ended up having to do it after the fucking city had sunk.

The Fed is the only one that did their fucking jobs in this...you can say it was shitty...but at least they did something.

What did everyone else do? They sat on their asses and waited for the Fed to do something.

I sympathize...until people start acting like this iis all on the feds...I mean to me to give everyone else a free pass is to empower stupid decision making.


I been broke before...I have been broke and transportationless before...but if my fucking life is threatened...I know I could get my ass in gear if I wanted too...and if I didn't I wouldn't blame anyone but myself.

[whottt]

Why did you only use the 495K figure? The population of metro New Orleans is over 1.3M.

The city of New Orleans has 495K but beyond that...it didn't take many of these people long to get to the Superdome after the flood now did it? Even some of the people in wheel chairs.

New Orleans isn't that sprawled out...I have been there 10 or 15 times...like I said it's just about my favorite City in the World...

I took a car the first time I went, on my honeymoon...and every time after that I realized I didn't need a car...

IF you had dropped me off with 30 bucks in my pocket and 5 people in wheel chairs I could have gotten em to the Superdome or any other place in town, hell, to the next county, with enough food and water to at least survive for 5 days..in about 3 hours at the most, unless you dropped me off out in the sticks. People in the sticks have cars.

Have you ever been to NO? Everyone walks...And most of projects I have seen aren't more than about 5 miles from the Superdome.




And by the way, poor people don't have five days of non-perishable food in their house to tote with them to the SuperDome. Elderly and sick people can't carry five days of food with them. The request for them to bring five days of food was good in theory. It doesn't work in reality.


I call BS...unless you are trying to bring a 5 course meal for every day...

Allow me to give you some life saving advice right now, for just in case you ever find yourself in this situation:

http://www.detnews.com/2000/food/0216/panel/fd17panel.jpg

They cost about a dollar a box...I could get a good 7 days out of a box of crackers if I had too. And if I want to high step I'll spring for a couple of jars of Cheese Whiz to go with them...or maybe just get a couple of blocks of cheddar.

Try it...try eating a box of crackers in one day...it's a challenge even if you are trying to do it.


My Grandma has had the equivalent to a box of crackers in her coat every day of my life...if there is ever a nuclear war she won't die of starvation. Of this I have no doubt.


...2 gallons of water could last you 4 days at least unless you just chug it.


And I don't know how many poor people you know...but if there's one thing in common about most of the poor people I know...these mofos have food in their houses. Do those 600lbrs they are pulling off the roofs look like they have trouble getting food? Or getting to the Grocery store for that matter?


Sorry but it's not that hard. I can understand the elderly...but that's about it.




But just for the sake of argument..

What is harder to do?

Evacuate 250,000 people in 2 days before the city is flooded? Or do it (along with)having to pull them off rooftops after?


It is completely unreasonable to expect them to have evacuated that city in 2 oe 3 days after it was flooded...especially since the city government totally collapsed. The fed had to do the job for everyone...including the people who didn't get out of their hoses.

And everyone of those people that stayed that didn't have to do so...they are much more responsible for these deaths than the federal government...hell than any of the governments.

[whottt]

:lol Some of you are fucks. I dare you to go down to one of the shelters and say to the refugee's faces what you say on this board. Especially you Whottt. I'm sure they'd be very receptive.

Yeah well...that's why some of us spent 5 days on the roof before going into a shelter and why some of us didn't.


To tell you the truth...If I did live there...I probably wouldn't have left either, unless I lived in the low part of town that flooded often... but I wouldn't have gone hungry or thirsty that's for sure. And I wouldn't be passing the buck for my own accountability in what occurred.


I sympathize...I sincerely do...regardless of the culpability of many of these folks in making an impossible situation even more impossible...they did lose their homes and every thing they had. But anyone that thinks the Fed is the most accountable for this situation is just very naive...

What did the city and state govts do? Say everyone needed to get out? I give them all props for that. But so did the fed...and the fed got everyone one out...what did the rest of the governments do? Jack shit.

How come the Fed doesn't fuck up in Florida?

[Trainwreck2100]

Them crackers got alot of transfat whott, transfat bad.

[whottt]

And yes...if some one lives in SanFrancisco and gets fucked over by Earthquake...I will sympathize...until they say...it's the Governments fault. And then the first thing that's going to pop into my head is...hey dumbfuck...you the one that wanted to live there.

Edit: And when I see one of those moms with 5 kids that couldn't get her kids out...I don't feel sorry for the mom particularly...I feel sorry for the kids...their momma dealt them a fucked up hand in life.

[MannyIsGod]

How come the Fed doesn't fuck up in Florida?


Holy shit! Great question!

http://www.cafeaulait.org/course/week9/lightbulb.gif

[boutons]

"How come the Fed doesn't fuck up in Florida?"

No levee infrastructure to budget annually for maintainance?

(the man-made/willfully neglected levees, not God-made Katrina, are exclusively what fucked over NO. The blacks who stayed and bet against Katrina won, but they lost their bet against shrub's OMB. The man-made game was rigged, of course. Damn, the blacks were fucked over again by The Man? "who woulda thought?" )

No entire FL cities are 70% black and poor and uninsured and 80% below adjacent lake/river/sea level?

(background: insurance industry has huge lobbying/campagain contribution activity. The more the insurance industry can get the Feds/FEMA to shoulder with tax $$$, the less the insurance industry has to shoulder with their own underwriting/investment $$$. Same with the politician-buying oilco's. Lots of Federal contracts and materiel purchased and in place ready to clean-up oilco spills, so the oilco's can pollute with impunity while the Feds pick up the tab. aka corporate welfare)

FL has lots of rich, white Repugs and a large, election-swinging number of electoral votes (LA=9, FL=27)?

FL is simply more $important to politicians-for-sale ?

FL: 17,019,068 people x $31,455/capita = $535B
LA: 4,496,334 people x $27,581/capita = $124B

Many (annual) hurricanes in FL gives the Feds decades of practice-makes-perfect bailing out the same dumbshit people who choose to live in hurricane alley, many in mobile homes, while expecting the Feds repeatedly to bail their dumbshit asses out after every hurricane (see: Whott) ?

[whottt]

I know your heart is in the right place Manny, just like everyone else in this thread that is angry over this. But there are more factors that lead to this disaster than just the Federal Government screwed up...and when I hear people claiming things like racism or the government wasn't concerned about poor people...what ever else...it's just crap. I understand sympathizing and feeling guilt over what happened to these people. I feel it too. I have cried watching this stuff unfold. But scapegoating the Govt and fostering the idea that the Govt is responsible for everything and the citizens aren't is a dangerous line of thinking...and it's not what this country is about.

I mean if it's racism why are all the people in Mississipi pissed off? I see a lot of white people pissed off over there...is it their intent to piss two major red states just to kill off a few poor people and blacks? That's ridiculous. It's stupid.

Every person that could have left that stayed behind, diverted resources from someone who couldn't leave.

Every person that fired on a rescue worker diverted resources from someone who couldn't leave.

Every person that climbed up on the roof without thinking about getting food, water, or medicine and thinking they'd be rescued within a day, diverted resources from someone who couldn't leave.

Etc...the city governments could have done more to organize for this..the state could have...the fed could have. It's not just any one thing and I see a desire by many powerful people in this country to manipulate this situation for political gain. It's just wrong to do that and the facts point to many being at fault.

[boutons]

The New York Times

September 5, 2005

After Failures, Officials Play Blame Game

By SCOTT SHANE

This article was reported by Scott Shane, Eric Lipton and Christopher Drew and written by Mr. Shane.

WASHINGTON, Sept. 4 - As the Bush administration tried to show a more forceful effort to help the victims of Hurricane Katrina, government officials on Sunday escalated their criticism and sniping over who was to blame for the problems plaguing the initial response.

While rescuers were still trying to reach people stranded by the floods, perhaps the only consensus among local, state and federal officials was that the system had failed.

Some federal officials said uncertainty over who was in charge had contributed to delays in providing aid and imposing order, and officials in Louisiana complained that Washington disaster officials had blocked some aid efforts.

Local and state resources were so weakened, said Michael Chertoff, the homeland security secretary, that in the future federal authorities need to take "more of an upfront role earlier on, when we have these truly ultracatastrophes."

But furious state and local officials insisted that the real problem was that the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which Mr. Chertoff's department oversees, failed to deliver urgently needed help and, through incomprehensible red tape, even thwarted others' efforts to help.

"We wanted soldiers, helicopters, food and water," said Denise Bottcher, press secretary for Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco of Louisiana. "They wanted to negotiate an organizational chart."

Mayor C. Ray Nagin of New Orleans expressed similar frustrations. "We're still fighting over authority," he told reporters on Saturday. "A bunch of people are the boss. The state and federal government are doing a two-step dance."

In one of several such appeals, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, Democrat of New York, called on President Bush on Sunday to appoint an independent national commission to examine the relief effort. She also said that she intends to introduce legislation to remove FEMA from the Department of Homeland Security and restore its previous status as an independent agency with cabinet-level status.

Mr. Chertoff tried to deflect the criticism of his department and FEMA by saying there would be time later to decide what went wrong.

"Whatever the criticisms and the after-action report may be about what was right and what was wrong looking back, what would be a horrible tragedy would be to distract ourselves from avoiding further problems because we're spending time talking about problems that have already occurred," he told Tim Russert on "Meet the Press" on NBC.

But local officials, who still feel overwhelmed by the continuing tragedy, demanded accountability and as well as action.

"Why did it happen? Who needs to be fired?" asked Aaron Broussard, president of Jefferson Parish, south of New Orleans.

Far from deferring to state or local officials, FEMA asserted its authority and made things worse, Mr. Broussard complained on "Meet the Press."

When Wal-Mart sent three trailer trucks loaded with water, FEMA officials turned them away, he said. Agency workers prevented the Coast Guard from delivering 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel, and on Saturday they cut the parish's emergency communications line, leading the sheriff to restore it and post armed guards to protect it from FEMA, Mr. Broussard said.

One sign of the continuing battle over who was in charge was Governor Blanco's refusal to sign an agreement proposed by the White House to share control of National Guard forces with the federal authorities.

Under the White House plan, Lt. Gen. Russel L. Honoré would oversee both the National Guard and the active duty federal troops, reporting jointly to the president and Ms. Blanco.

"She would lose control when she had been in control from the very beginning," said Ms. Bottcher, the governor's press secretary.

Ms. Bottcher was one of several officials yesterday who said she believed FEMA had interfered with the delivery of aid, including offers from the mayor of Chicago, Richard M. Daley, and the governor of New Mexico, Bill Richardson.

Adam Sharp, a spokesman for Senator Mary L. Landrieu, Democrat of Louisiana, said the problem was not who was in command. FEMA repeatedly held up assistance that could have been critical, he said.

"FEMA has just been very slow to make these decisions," Mr. Sharp said.

In a clear slap at Mr. Chertoff and the FEMA director, Michael D. Brown, Governor Blanco announced Saturday that she had hired James Lee Witt, the director of FEMA during the Clinton administration, to advise her on the recovery.

Nearly every emergency worker told agonizing stories of communications failures, some of them most likely fatal to victims. Police officers called Senator Landrieu's Washington office because they could not reach commanders on the ground in New Orleans, Mr. Sharp said.

Dr. Ross Judice, chief medical officer for a large ambulance company, recounted how on Tuesday, unable to find out when helicopters would land to pick up critically ill patients at the Superdome, he walked outside and discovered that two helicopters, donated by an oil services company, had been waiting in the parking lot.

Louisiana and New Orleans have received a total of about $750 million in federal emergency and terrorism preparedness grants in the last four years, Homeland Security Department officials said.

Mr. Chertoff said he recognized that the local government's capacity to respond to the disaster was severely compromised by the hurricane and flood.

"What happened here was that essentially, the demolishment of that state and local infrastructure, and I think that really caused the cascading series of breakdowns," he said.

But Mayor Nagin said the root of the breakdown was the failure of the federal government to deliver relief supplies and personnel quickly.

"They kept promising and saying things would happen," he said. "I was getting excited and telling people that. They kept making promises and promises."

Scott Shane and Eric Lipton reported from Washington, and Christopher Drew from New Orleans. Jeremy Alford contributed reporting from Baton Rouge, La., and Gardiner Harris from Lafayette, La.

* Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

[boutons]

BBC NEWS

Viewpoint: Has Katrina saved US media?

By Matt Wells
BBC News, Los Angeles

As President Bush scurries back to the Gulf Coast, it is clear that this is the greatest challenge to politics-as-usual in America since the fall of Richard Nixon in the 1970s.

Then as now, good reporting lies at the heart of what is changing.

But unlike Watergate, "Katrinagate" was public service journalism ruthlessly exposing the truth on a live and continuous basis.

Instead of secretive "Deep Throat" meetings in car-parks, cameras captured the immediate reality of what was happening at the New Orleans Convention Center, making a mockery of the stalling and excuses being put forward by those in power.

Amidst the horror, American broadcast journalism just might have grown its spine back, thanks to Katrina.

National politics reporters and anchors here come largely from the same race and class as the people they are supposed to be holding to account.

They live in the same suburbs, go to the same parties, and they are in debt to the same huge business interests.

Giant corporations own the networks, and Washington politicians rely on them and their executives to fund their re-election campaigns across the 50 states.

It is a perfect recipe for a timid and self-censoring journalistic culture that is no match for the masterfully aggressive spin-surgeons of the Bush administration.

'Lies or ignorance'

But last week the complacency stopped, and the moral indignation against inadequate government began to flow, from slick anchors who spend most of their time glued to desks in New York and Washington.

The most spectacular example came last Friday night on Fox News, the cable network that has become the darling of the Republican heartland.

This highly successful Murdoch-owned station sets itself up in opposition to the "mainstream liberal media elite".

But with the sick and the dying forced to sit in their own excrement behind him in New Orleans, its early-evening anchor Shepard Smith declared civil war against the studio-driven notion that the biggest problem was still stopping the looters.

On other networks like NBC, CNN and ABC it was the authority figures, who are so used to an easy ride at press conferences, that felt the full force of reporters finally determined to ditch the deference.

As the heads of the Homeland Security department and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (Fema) appeared for network interviews, their defensive remarks about where aid was arriving to, and when, were exposed immediately as either downright lies or breath-taking ignorance.

And you did not need a degree in journalism to know it either. Just watching TV for the previous few hours would have sufficed.

Iraq concern

When the back-slapping president told the Fema boss on Friday morning that he was doing "a heck of a job" and spent most of his first live news conference in the stricken area praising all the politicians and chiefs who had failed so clearly, it beggared belief.

The president looked affronted when a reporter covering his Mississippi walkabout had the temerity to suggest that having a third of the National Guard from the affected states on duty in Iraq might be a factor.

It is something I suspect he is going to have to get used to from now on: the list of follow-up questions is too long to ignore or bury.

And it is not only on TV and radio where the gloves have come off.

The most artful supporter of the administration on the staff of the New York Times, columnist David Brooks, has also had enough.

He and others are calling the debacle the "anti 9-11": "The first rule of the social fabric - that in times of crisis you protect the vulnerable - was trampled," he wrote on Sunday.

"Leaving the poor in New Orleans was the moral equivalent of leaving the injured on the battlefield."

Media emboldened

It is way too early to tell whether this really will become "Katrinagate" for President Bush, but how he and his huge retinue of politically-appointed bureaucrats react in the weeks ahead will be decisive.

Government has been thrown into disrepute, and many Americans have realised, for the first time, that the collapsed, rotten flood defences of New Orleans are a symbol of failed infrastructure across the nation.

Blaming the state and city officials, as the president is already trying to do over Katrina, will not wash.

Black America will not forget the government failures, and nor will the Gulf Coast region

Beyond the immediate challenge of re-housing the evacuees and getting 200,000-plus children into new schools, there will have to be a Katrina Commission, that a newly-emboldened media will scrutinise obsessively.

The dithering and incompetence that will be exposed will not spare the commander-in-chief, or the sunny, faith-based propaganda that he was still spouting as he left New Orleans airport last Friday, saying it was all going to turn out fine.

People were still trapped, hungry and dying on his watch, less than a mile away.

Black America will not forget the government failures, nor will the Gulf Coast region.

Tens of thousands of voters whose lives have been so devastated will cast their mid-term ballots in Texas next year - the president's adopted home state.

The final word belongs to the historic newspaper at the centre of the hurricane - The New Orleans Times-Picayune. At the weekend, this now-homeless institution published an open letter: "We're angry, Mr President, and we'll be angry long after our beloved city and surrounding parishes have been pumped dry.

"Our people deserved rescuing. Many who could have been, were not. That's to the government's shame."

Do you agree or disagree, send your comments on the story using the form below.

I completely agree with this article, the media seems to be criticizing the administration here, or at least to a certain extent. The fact remains that the government has grossly failed its own citizens.
Aldo Gonzalez, San Diego, California

I agree completely. It is tragic that it has needed such a catastrophe to reveal the Bush regime, administration seems too innocuous a word, for what it is. Michael Moore, for all his failings, would appear to be on the right track.
D. Fear, Heidelberg, Germany

As an American expat currently working in the Middle East, my heart breaks over what is happening in my country and my anger rises on how badly this pack of fools ruining my beloved country have failed their job. If impeachment charges could be filed against Clinton over flimsy accusations, then impeachment charges should be filed against Bush and his "Department of Homeland Insecurity" head for their gross mishandling of the situation. And the GOP funky now ruining FEMA should be sacked, and FEMA restored to the cabinet-level position it once held, before the fiasco that is Department of Homeland Security was created.

It's nice to see that the US Media has finally grown a spine - I just wish it had been sooner.
Patrick McKinnion, Doha, Qatar

I agree in full and I strongly believe that this administration will get their well deserved "come up in's". We reap what we sow and this President and his pack of oil chasers have sewn only lies, illusions, and fear.
J Pesterle, Kapaa, Hawaii

The government should be roundly criticised for underestimating the relief effort requires, but in a country where poverty does not necessarily mean lack of television or means to transport ones self, many of those who did not leave, who were allegedly left with no choice to leave, could have probably done so.

Why is this effort being split along race grounds? It is a fact that a large percentage of the population of New Orleans is black, therefore a large percentage of those stranded would have been black, and whilst it may be unpalatable to many in a country as politically sensitive as America, many of those hindering the emergency services and committing atrocities are also black. It is time to face up to the sub-culture that exists without resorting to the race card.
Hemal Shah, London, UK

Of course they've been lying. Of course the media knew it, the BBC included. It's not only the American media that are rich and white.

Now how about telling the truth, retroactively as well as prospectively, as you see it, catch us citizens up on what else you have known the governments are lying about?
Hank Roberts, Berkeley, CA, USA

Bush administration has always been in self-denial mode, be it 9-11 or Katrina. The response of the administration is a reflection of Bush's personality, that is defensive, ego-driven, low on self esteem and compulsive lying.
Rajesh Raheja, New Delhi, India

Matt Wells' article is a clear, highly erudite, well-balanced and chillingly revealing account of what is the truth behind the pathetic posturing of the powerful in the USA - be it White House, the Senate, Hollywood, big business or whatever.

He has put into words what I have always thought, and has given me sleepless nights, but with prose I could never hope to match.
Nicholas Colley, Fresney France

President Bush has long been an embarrassment to our country and hopefully people will realize after this unbelievable event that they have had enough his leadership.
Diana Brown Johanson, Port Townsend, WA

I believe that it is honorable and laudable the efforts made by the media to stamp out politically biased media, and to report the truth and place the blame where it belongs.

I extend my support to journalists, writers, broadcasters, and individuals who stand up and voice their concerns to our sickeningly poll-driven administration.
Ryan Knoppe, La Grange, Illinois United States

Excellent article, genuine news, information and analysis. We need to see more of this.
Neil Messam, Swansea, UK

I agree, but I also know that the Rove character assassination team will now start to roll. Soon preachers will be calling the hurricane God's punishment on those wicked people of New Orleans.

Already here on Houston TV officials are looking into setting a curfew and possibly locking the survivors in at night, all because some bambi type felt uneasy seeing so many black people out at night around the Astrodome.

Personally, I'd like to see a full accounting of the money that has been spent on homeland security, I think my fellow countrymen would be shocked and appalled at the level of corruption that now permeates every part of our government.
Marvin Bote, Houston, USA

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Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/4214516.stm

Published: 2005/09/05 06:58:16 GMT

© BBC MMV

[cherylsteele]

I just hope that we can all learn from the mistakes that have been made in this ordeal....and not let it happen again.

[Clandestino]

you guys are fucking ridiculous... blaming the government for this shit..

in florida after a hurricane, there isn't a huge flood that stays for months... insurance companies, the red cross, the fed can all come in within days to cut checks.

plus, you dont have people in florida shooting aid workers!

[ChumpDumper]

But with the sick and the dying forced to sit in their own excrement behind him in New Orleans, its early-evening anchor Shepard Smith declared civil war against the studio-driven notion that the biggest problem was still stopping the looters.His and Geraldo's tirades were quite surprising -- I noticed they Fox didn't go back to Smith for the rest of the hour and the checkpoint that kept folks in the city was never spoken of again to my knowledge.

[Manu20]

Published - Sept 05 2005 11:01AM CDT || AP

METAIRIE, La.(AP) One week after Hurricane Katrina devastated the region, miles-long lines of vehicles crawled into Jefferson Parish on Monday as residents were allowed to return to salvage what was left of their homes. New Orleans' mayor warned that 10,000 people may have died.

President Bush began his second trip to the region since the storm hit, landing in Baton Rouge late in the morning to start another inspection tour and consultations with federal and local officials.

Traffic began moving into the parish west of New Orleans at about 6 a.m. A curfew was set for 6 p.m., and residents were told they could stay until Wednesday.

Among those returning was Diane Dempsey, a 59-year-old retired Army lieutenant colonel who stopped at the water's edge less than a mile from the house where she grew up and where her aunt lives.

"I'm going to pay someone to get me back there, anything I have to do," she said, sobbing while standing amid boats beached on Veterans Highway. "A lot of these people built these houses anticipating some flood water but nobody imagined this."

Most of the single-story bungalow homes in her neighborhood had water nearly to the rooflines. Homes in the most exclusive neighborhood of the parish, Old Metaire, had little structural damage but some of the worst flooding. Along rows of palatial, six-bedroom homes, a few windows were broken and the live oaks survived but the water rippled up to front-door knobs.

The suburban parish, which has 460,000 residents, has been closed since a mandatory evacuation just before Katrina hit. Wide portions of Metairie and Kenner suffered heavy flooding, and authorities said thousands of homes were damaged.

A week after the storm, a definitive death toll remained elusive. New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin warned on NBC's "Today" that "it wouldn't be unreasonable to have 10,000" dead.

Despite the grim estimate, he was more upbeat than in previous days, when he railed against the federal government and broke down sobbing during a radio interview.

"We're making great progress now, the momentum has picked up. I'm starting to see some critical tasks being completed," he told NBC.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

How come the Fed doesn't fuck up in Florida?



Because the local and state officials there are better prepared than in NO.

Just one example...

If you go to any big city down there (say Miami for example), there are signs up for hurricane evacuation routes showing people the way out. Every other bus stop in Miami is a hurricane evacuation point for those without transportation, and has a sign up at the stop saying so.

NO has nothing of the sort. Now, you may think that's minor but you think about people in NO who didn't even know where to go to get on a bus out of town (Nagin not using buses is another argument altogether), while in Miami you've got a pickup point on every other street corner.

Those signs of information are a standard in every big coastal city in MS, AL, and Florida, but you got nothing in NO.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

17th Street levee is plugged, and Entergy is wiring electricity into the pumping station.

Already have other pumps on the east side cranked up and running. Go Army!

[Trainwreck2100]

what did they use to plug it?

[whottt]

His and Geraldo's tirades were quite surprising -- I noticed they Fox didn't go back to Smith for the rest of the hour and the checkpoint that kept folks in the city was never spoken of again to my knowledge.

Sheppard Smith was melting down over the situation the entire time after the levys broke...you gotta realize...his hometown got wiped out by the Hurricane...He's been emotional for all of this except for the pre-strom.

And why are they surprising? Because they aren't as biased as everyone says? Unlike the CNN guys who are biased, always. Geraldo used to be an extreme liberal...he changed...I wonder why. And you should hear these guys get on Bush for his border stance...ditto O'Reilly.


Meanwhile...Bush writing those racist captions for the right wing AP is a travesty. Fucking racist Bush...I can't believe he wrote those captions like that.

[whottt]

Because the local and state officials there are better prepared than in NO.

Just one example...

Oh I understand why...

Not to mention that the majority of the people there heed these warnings due to all the severe hurricanes they have had the past few years.

And if people could have seen what this hurricane was going to do...

I gurantee you there wouldn't have been 250,000 that stayed in the city of NO




NO has nothing of the sort. Now, you may think that's minor but you think about people in NO who didn't even know where to go to get on a bus out of town (Nagin not using buses is another argument altogether), while in Miami you've got a pickup point on every other street corner.


Well it doesn't help that Greyhound closed their offices...

To Nagin's credit...he did have shuttles to take people to the Dome...a lot of people didn't get on them.


I could just see what would have happened if the Police Force had been forcing these people out of their homes before their hurricane hit...

There would have been about 100,000 Police Brutality charges....


Those signs of information are a standard in every big coastal city in MS, AL, and Florida, but you got nothing in NO.


I agree...and they also have a better police force than NO...whose corrupt police force is legendary.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

what did they use to plug it?

Sandbags, dirt, concrete construction barriers, JLo's ass.

[ChumpDumper]

And why are they surprising? Because they aren't as biased as everyone says?Yes, in Smith's case. And the anchor's response -- changing the subject -- was not surprising.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Here's something to chew on for all the MMQBs...

They are talking about Jefferson Parish (west NO) right now. The president of that parish had everyone either 1) evaced or 2) moved to shelters (the old and those who didn't have the means/time to leave).

So, doesn't it say more about local gvt. that a parish president could get his parish prepped to the point that they're getting to come back today to check on their houses? That he had generators in place for all the shelters to keep electricity running for the people?

I thought this was all Bush's fault, so doesn't he deserve some respect for at least getting Jefferson Parish safe? [/tongue in cheek]

[whottt]

Gunmen were firing on the contractors who were repairing the 17th street levy.



Those goddamn racist contractors better not hurt my people[/Kanye Dumbass Fucking Shitbag West]

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

^^^^^^^^^ :lol


Broussard: I know what the body count is so far, but I won't horrify the nation.

Ouch (Jefferson Parish President)

[whottt]

Yes, in Smith's case. And the anchor's response -- changing the subject -- was not surprising.

The anchor was O'Reilly...and Smith said he wasn't trying to blame anyone. He was just frustrated watching people drop dead around him...I would have been too, shit I was watching it on TV. It makes September 11th look like a a minor disaster...I think 99% of the people in the world would have reacted similarly.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

From MSNBC, interviewing a black woman from New Orleans...

She said she always thought white people were to blame for a lot of things, but since she's been in Houston, so many white people have been truly trying to help her out and have been so compassionate.

Someone get Jesse J. and Kanye on the line, she's not towing the party line.

[ChumpDumper]

The anchor was O'ReillyHannity was the one I saw.

[Vashner]

Well because those are the parts that where not underwater.

If the levy's had not broke would be about the same situation with the sunken portions.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Contrast Galveston with NO...

http://www.khou.com/news/local/galveston/stories/khou050802_gj_hurricaneseason.35de5241.html

[Jelly]

Not one mention of the State government's role and responsibility in this. BBC as a news source is just pathetic. I go on their website all the time and they never fail to leave out major details and misinform their readers/viewers.
One of the reasons that Florida is able to manage hurricanes so much better is that they have a Governor who understands his job and knows how to lead and manage relief efforts.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Someone was asking about the Mississippi. On CNN they are showing tankers and cargo ships coming up the Mississippi right now :tu

Just interviewed a former NO swat team commander. He said that the NG didn't have the power to enforce law without a proclimation from La.'s governor, which still hasn't come.

They were talking about the mess in the Dome and he said all the NG guys could do is act as security for the military doctors and stuff they brought in, and that a proclimation of martial law from the gov. was never issued, hence the NG was limited in what it could do.

[Clandestino]

From MSNBC, interviewing a black woman from New Orleans...

She said she always thought white people were to blame for a lot of things, but since she's been in Houston, so many white people have been truly trying to help her out and have been so compassionate.

Someone get Jesse J. and Kanye on the line, she's not towing the party line.

where is mookie and cbf...

[SpursWoman]

The anchor was O'Reilly...and Smith said he wasn't trying to blame anyone. He was just frustrated watching people drop dead around him...I would have been too, shit I was watching it on TV. It makes September 11th look like a a minor disaster...I think 99% of the people in the world would have reacted similarly.

I was watching that....he was trying so hard to keep it together, but he's only human. I don't know if most people (including myself) could have done any better. You'd have to be among the coldest fuckers on the planet.

[SpursWoman]

Sandbags, dirt, concrete construction barriers, JLo's ass.


I'd have been happy to have donated mine...I could have gotten the whole 17th street canal on my own.

:fro

[Jelly]

While I feel sorry for most of these evacuees, some of them are really pissing me off. On CNN the other day they were interviewing a very enraged woman (surprise, surprise). She was at the airport looking for her husband and was livid that no one could tell her where he was. She went on a long rant about how disgusted she was with the rescue efforts. But during her tirade she revealed that she could have left when ordered but chose not to and that she was pulled off the roof by the Coast Guard not once, BUT TWICE. She and her husband were first rescued from their roof on Monday. Then on Tuesday (or Wednesday) she went back to "check on her house", only to find herself back on the roof with her husband where they waited about 10 hours (which she bitched about) to get rescued again by another helicopter. And now she's infuriated about the disorganization and the fact that they put her and her husband on seperate buses and on and on. I'm sorry, but it is people like this that
selfishly overburden the system and are a reason why so many truly needy people are not getting the help they need.

[ChumpDumper]

It wasn't the fact he got emotional, more the content and the studio's ersponse.

[SpursWoman]

While I feel sorry for most of these evacuees, some of them are really pissing me off. On CNN the other day they were interviewing a very enraged woman (surprise, surprise). She was at the airport looking for her husband and was livid that no one could tell her where he was.


Maybe he is horrifyingly embarrassed and is hiding from her. :fro

[whottt]

Hannity was the one I saw.


This would be Sean Hannity of the Hannity & Bitch show? I seldom watch it.

But congrats...you've exposed him for being an extreme right winger. I await your next expose on that Pat Buchannan guy....

[whottt]

It wasn't the fact he got emotional, more the content and the studio's ersponse.

The host of the show calls the feeds...Sheppard didn't get cut off on O'Relly...but O'Relly did try and get him to explain what he was trying to claim. That's when he said he wasn't trying to blame anyone...he was just sick of watching people drop dead on the streets...he was pointing out the horror of the situation.

[Slomo]

They just said in the news over here that the US has finally asked/allowed for foreign help. The EU is reacting immediately since people and some materials (beds, blankets, freeze dried food..) have already been prepared anticipating the US request and are being flown to the US. Some countries like Belgium and the UK are also sending help on their own as well.

The US request has been adressed to the UN, EU and NATO (although it wasn't clear wether those were three different requests or one addressed to all three organizations).

[TOP-CHERRY]

While I feel sorry for most of these evacuees, some of them are really pissing me off. On CNN the other day they were interviewing a very enraged woman (surprise, surprise). She was at the airport looking for her husband and was livid that no one could tell her where he was. She went on a long rant about how disgusted she was with the rescue efforts. But during her tirade she revealed that she could have left when ordered but chose not to and that she was pulled off the roof by the Coast Guard not once, BUT TWICE. She and her husband were first rescued from their roof on Monday. Then on Tuesday (or Wednesday) she went back to "check on her house", only to find herself back on the roof with her husband where they waited about 10 hours (which she bitched about) to get rescued again by another helicopter. And now she's infuriated about the disorganization and the fact that they put her and her husband on seperate buses and on and on. I'm sorry, but it is people like this that
selfishly overburden the system and are a reason why so many truly needy people are not getting the help they need.
Oh wow...

Damn.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

BTW,

for all the bitching about the federal response, there are now 51,000 National Guard troops on the ground in the three states affected.

I guess the government's acting too slow though, we need some troops on the ground.

[MannyIsGod]

You guys don't seem to understand what is being conveyed here. This is not a case of blatant racism that you used to see in pre civil rights America, this is an example in the difference of reactions and preperations that happen to poor people - many of whom happen to be black.

Racism probably isn't the correct term, because the correct term is classism. Jeff Master nailed it in his blog. There would have proper perations undertaken had New Orleans had more money and its constitutants been more important to those who are in charge.

This isn't a partasian issue either. The fact is that the democrats in power have ignored these people as well.

And you can't put the majority of the blame on the state government, because diaster reaction - especially in this magnitude - is something that falls on the federal governments plate. When you are dealing with state and local governments in an area as poor as New Orleans they don't have the resources to react.

It is pretty fucking obvious to anyone who reads what the feds say that a large part of this was federal neglect. They neglected the situation before the storm, they neglected to plan for the storm, and they sure as hell neglected to make an expedious response.

[MannyIsGod]

BTW,

for all the bitching about the federal response, there are now 51,000 National Guard troops on the ground in the three states affected.

I guess the government's acting too slow though, we need some troops on the ground.
#1, national guard troops are a state response.

#2, there weren't enough to prevent what happend, so there weren't enough, so the response was fucked.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Manny, I'm not syaing the feds are free of blame. Just that the people who are trying to lynch everyone from Bush to the janitor at the White House for this need to assess some blame in teh direction of state and local folks too.

[MannyIsGod]

While I feel sorry for most of these evacuees, some of them are really pissing me off. On CNN the other day they were interviewing a very enraged woman (surprise, surprise). She was at the airport looking for her husband and was livid that no one could tell her where he was. She went on a long rant about how disgusted she was with the rescue efforts. But during her tirade she revealed that she could have left when ordered but chose not to and that she was pulled off the roof by the Coast Guard not once, BUT TWICE. She and her husband were first rescued from their roof on Monday. Then on Tuesday (or Wednesday) she went back to "check on her house", only to find herself back on the roof with her husband where they waited about 10 hours (which she bitched about) to get rescued again by another helicopter. And now she's infuriated about the disorganization and the fact that they put her and her husband on seperate buses and on and on. I'm sorry, but it is people like this that
selfishly overburden the system and are a reason why so many truly needy people are not getting the help they need.
What is the job of these networks? To generate ratings. I have yet to encounter one person who is anything but incredible gratefull. But you know, that doesn't generate ratings as much as showing the looting, ungrateful people, and people who are stiring the shit.



Open Letter: From a Katrina refugee in S.A. Web Posted: 09/05/2005 10:50 AM CDT


MySanAntonio.com

Hi:



I just would like to thank all the wonderful,

courteous individuals that have come to all of the

refugee's aid-The Governer of Texas, the Mayor of San

Antonio, the Police, Fireman, SBC, Kelly USA, etc.,

etc. but I especially would like to thank the citizens

of San Antonio.



At this moment I have no idea of were I am going or

what I am going to do once I leave Kelly USA but I

will always remember the wonderful and courteous

citizens of San Antonio, especially all the hours that

they have given to make us feel like a human being

again.



This hurricane has really been tragic for the

various states hit by Katrina.



New Orleans is known to be a very friendly city and

at this moment I feel like San Antonio is a sister

city.



I would like to apologize for those New Orleanians

that may cause trouble or damage to the facilities.



I was at the Super Dome for four and half days and

it felt like I was having a nightmare and I was not

even sleeping.



The stories that I was able to read, I feel, does

not really tell the whole story but I know if I return

to New Orleans I will try and leave early, some way,

some how even thought I do not have transportation.



Thanks again and God Bless the citizens of San

Antonio and all those in Texas.



Wilson Breaux

[MannyIsGod]

Manny, I'm not syaing the feds are free of blame. Just that the people who are trying to lynch everyone from Bush to the janitor at the White House for this need to assess some blame in teh direction of state and local folks too. The state definetly shares a good amount of blame, but no where near as much as the feds.

You know, when I found out they didn't have a plan, then I just put into my mind it was going to be their fault. They are the backsop; the failsafe. They are the ones ultimately responsible for making sure those people are safe in this situation.

And they didn't even have a fucking plan.

We have war plans in case we need to attack Ethopia, Nepal, or a number of any other scenarios that are never going to happen. But we don't have a plan in the event of a hurricane stronger than cat 4 hitting New Orleans.

[MannyIsGod]

As Slomo said, thanks to the EU....



EU, NATO are asked to provide supplies

BRUSSELS, Belgium — The U.S. has asked the European Union and NATO for emergency assistance, requesting blankets, first aid kits, water trucks and food for the victims of Hurricane Katrina, the two organizations said Sunday.

The 26-nation NATO alliance said the U.S. has asked it for food rations for the thousands of people evacuated from New Orleans and other areas.

— Associated Press


But why the fuck aren't we prepared? I'm very grateful for the help, but I am also very pissed that we didn't have enough. We should be prepared. We have the resources. This is not a pride thing. I'm just tired of seeing how unprepared we were.

Anyhow, thank you once again to Europe.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Oh I agree with you there, FEMA is going to need a major overhaul. It's telling to me that with Bush in La. today that Chertoff and Lt. Gen. Honore are flanking Bush, but since the president stepped in Wednesday night we really haven't seen or heard anything of Michael Brown, FEMA director.

I've said this much earlier in this discussion, but I truly believe FEMA had a plan, but in that plan, with a storm hitting NO head on, there wasn't this many survivors needing rescueing.

[Jelly]

You've got it wrong Manny. Talk about jumping to conclusions. It was a live broadcast on CNN and they were talking with lots of people. The reporter was not trying to make any particular point. She never raised on eyebrow or questioned this woman further about her two helicopter rescues. They just let the woman speak and wished her well. No questions asked beyond "how are you doing?". I am the one asking questions and critisizing this woman and I don't feel bad about it. If she was only pulled from the roof once, I wouldn't have even posted about it. But twice? Sorry. She and her husband took the place of two others that might be dead now.

[ChumpDumper]

The host of the show calls the feeds.Does he? Last I heard, producers and directors did that.
This would be Sean Hannity of the Hannity & Bitch show? I seldom watch it. Then you have no knowledge of what went on.

Understood.

[MannyIsGod]

You've got it wrong Manny. Talk about jumping to conclusions. It was a live broadcast on CNN and they were talking with lots of people. The reporter was not trying to make any particular point. She never raised on eyebrow or questioned this woman further about her two helicopter rescues. They just let the woman speak and wished her well. No questions asked beyond "how are you doing?". I am the one asking questions and critisizing this woman and I don't feel bad about it. If she was only pulled from the roof once, I wouldn't have even posted about it. But twice? Sorry. She and her husband took the place of two others that might be dead now.
If you don't think they interview these people while off camera and then go to them while live, you're a bit naive.

We're not talking about a HS broadcast journalism club, we're talking about CNN.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

:lol

Lt. Gen. Honore just tore up one of the reporters at the press conference.

Reporter asked if it was true that choppers weren't flying in due to the security situation, and he went drill instructor on her ass and told her that wasn't the case. :lmao

Classic.

"Have you been in New Orleans?"
Reporter: "yes I have."
"Anyone assault you?"
Reporter: "no."
"That's what I thought. All this second hand rumor stuff, I'm tired of it. We have the security situation under control. If you have a boat and want to help, come down. No one's going to be shooting at you."

[whottt]

Does he?

Yes he does. He can cut off the interview whenever he wants.


Then you have no knowledge of what went on.

Understood.

I know what went on when he melted down on O'Relly...when he didn't get cut off. Because O'Reilly didn't cut him off.

[ChumpDumper]

I know what went on when he melted down on O'RellyWhich was not the point.

Understood.

[SpursWoman]

"Have you been in New Orleans?"
Reporter: "yes I have."
"Anyone assault you?"
Reporter: "no."
"That's what I thought. All this second hand rumor stuff, I'm tired of it. We have the security situation under control. If you have a boat and want to help, come down. No one's going to be shooting at you."




Not according to Geraldo. :rolleyes

[SpursWoman]

Which was not the point.

Understood.


I saw the same program...O'Reilly didn't cut him off, he was more trying to get him to calm down by asking him specific questions to help him focus.

At least that's what it looked like to me. But I'm an optimist, and not a cynic...that's what I would have done when this guy was obviously upset. I do the same thing to my children. :lol

I don't go looking for racism, partisanship, censorship or whatever when there just really doesn't seem to be any.

[whottt]

Manny...as you put this all on the Fed...Realize this:


One sign of the continuing battle over who was in charge was Governor Blanco's refusal to sign an agreement proposed by the White House to share control of National Guard forces with the federal authorities.

Under the White House plan, Lt. Gen. Russel L. Honoré would oversee both the National Guard and the active duty federal troops, reporting jointly to the president and Ms. Blanco.

Now that's @8000 Louisiana Guardsmen....that weren't doing shit in the first days of this...

That was the when the Guardsmen were just standing around with their thumbs up their ass with no direction.

Just like the NO Police Force...

The first fucking thing Nagin did was get the fuck out of town and leave his cops to try and control every thing...

And how the fuck can he be in charge of the situation when he is not even in the fucking town and all the communications systems are down?

The City and State Leaders were fucking out of commission from day 1 one of this shit...

They did nothing...the Fed had to go in there and totally rebuild the command structure to do the jobs of the city and state as well as their own...on top of that...they don't even have control of all the guardsmen because this bitch won't cede authority....

And you wonder why there are communications breakdowns and the Fed had to spend days figuring out what was what?

Nagin should have been in that precinct with his fucking cops manually giving orders on what to do...

How can the Govenor better utilize those Guardsmen when she is nowhere near NO and Honnore was down their driving around the motherufcking streets...

Jeezus H...


And all these fucking leaders that are more interested in figuring out who to blame then actually doing their fucking jobs...

Let's see...

Blanco - Democrat
Nagin - Democrat
That Broussard guy calling for Bush's impeachment - Democrat.

Elected Democrats....you don't think these fuckers are covering their asses?

You don't think the marginalize Democratic Party is doing everything in their power to play this situation to regain status?

Get fucking real.


The first body hadn't dropped dead before Nbadan was spinning this on the Bush...he shoots a load every time another person drops dead...Democrats are no different...

And the state leaders are protecting their careers...after their command and control totally, thoroughly and completely failed.

And I don't know where you guys gets this crap that the US Government is supposed to do everything for us...The only thing this country promises you is an opportunity for a good life...

[MannyIsGod]

I love how whott wants to make a case for the Feds using NBADan. Don't you know you've reached NBADan proportions with your posts?

I've heard about that order with Blanco, and someone should have been on the phone explaining it to her. I've heard it explained as a clerical error.

Whottt, they had no plan.

NO PLAN.

[MannyIsGod]

You can save the extremist shit. AHF gets it, but you're so far up the administrations ass that you could give Bush a dental exam.