Official Hurricane Katrina Thread

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

http://ap.wwltv.com/photos/L/LADM10308301537-big.jpg

(notice the gasoline slick in the pic above)

http://ap.wwltv.com/photos/L/LADP10108301526-medium.jpg

More news.......

The twin span (Tom, guess this is the NO-Slidell bridge?) is gone.

[samikeyp]

Between all the stranded cars and flooded gas stations.....there will be a lot of gas in the water...yet another hazard.

[2pac]

In Obiwon's pic - that is St Bernard Parish - the 9th Ward you have heard about.

[MannyIsGod]

Son of a bitch. Those pictures are extraordinary. I'm at work with no access to a news feed, so keep the info coming please. You guys are my link.

[samikeyp]

is that the lake in the top corner?

[Extra Stout]

The twin span (Tom, guess this is the NO-Slidell bridge?) is gone.

It is unclear whether it is completely gone or whether just sections have washed out.

If the pilings are there, it can be rebuilt in a reasonable amount of time. If not, we might as well re-sign I-12 as I-10 for the next few years.

[nkdlunch]

http://ap.wwltv.com/photos/L/LADM10308301537-big.jpg

(notice the gasoline slick in the pic above)

http://ap.wwltv.com/photos/L/LADP10108301526-medium.jpg

More news.......

The twin span (Tom, guess this is the NO-Slidell bridge?) is gone.

Wow, looks like from a Hollywood movie.

[MiNuS]

I'm filling up my two vehicles today.I am expecting to spend at least $100.I have an Expedition and a Malibu.Both are almost running on empty.

I am going to start car pooling with my wife.She has a company car with gas paid.She works only about 3 miles from my office.

[j-6]

Son of a bitch. Those pictures are extraordinary. I'm at work with no access to a news feed, so keep the info coming please. You guys are my link.


This might be helpful for you then, Manny.

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

[nkdlunch]

Governor Blanco - "Worse than our worst fears."

who was saying this storm was overhyped??? :rolleyes

[MannyIsGod]

Thanks for the blog link.

Here's a close up of AHF's picture:
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.ladp10208301530.hurricane_katrina_ladp102.jpg

Notice what I think are emergency vehicles stranded on the bridges.

[ObiwanGinobili]

In Obiwon's pic - that is St Bernard Parish - the 9th Ward you have heard about.


Thats where Chalmette is? I wasn;'t sure .... I was trying to pull up a map but you know how hard it is ti find a neighborhood name on a map....

[j-6]

Thanks for the blog link.

Here's a close up of AHF's picture:

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.ladp10208301530.hurricane_katrina_ladp102.jpg ?x=313&y=345&sig=zvev3p5_2g4vR2p5QCIpJw--

Notice what I think are emergency vehicles stranded on the bridges.

Rather than stranded, isn't that the high point they were parked at?

[travis2]

The mayor of NO is on the live stream of WWL-TV right now. Some lowlights...

* Oil tanker run aground in South Louisiana, leaking oil

* Water rising in NO, including French Quarter

* Big levee break at 17th Street and Canal, water coming in from Pontchartrain

* Barge broke free and hit the causeway, causeway is unstable

* No water for a minimum of 4 weeks

* Slidell, La. completely submerged up to Spanish Trail (nothing above surface)

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=spanish+trail,+new+orleans&ll=30.255064,-89.761906&spn=0.066066,0.120352&num=10&start=0&hl=en

"Major flooding" from Gause Blvd. south.

[MannyIsGod]

Rather than stranded, isn't that the high point they were parked at?
That would make sense. I'm not familliar with their protocal.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Pres Bush said if you want to help :

Call 1-800 HELP NOW
or
contact the Red Cross or the Salvation Army


oh, and he;s also abandonign his vacation......

and estimates are now at 2months beofre all electricity can be restored.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, I'm sure those people have phone service. WTF?

[2pac]

That is where Chalmette is.

[ObiwanGinobili]

he's saying if other americans not affected would like to help.
not if you need help. if you;d like to help.l

[MannyIsGod]

Gotcha.

[Trainwreck2100]

Pres Bush said if you want to help :

Call 1-800 HELP NOW
or
contact the Red Cross or the Salvation Army


oh, and he;s also abandonign his vacation......

and estimates are now at 2months beofre all electricity can be restored.

Oh no what will Cindy Sheenan do now

[MannyIsGod]

don't know if this was posted earlier, but:



8:39 A.M. WWL-TV studios are being evacuated as rising water is coming into the station. The French Quarter is taking on water and water is expected to rise in the city for the next few days.

[ObiwanGinobili]

That is where Chalmette is.


ok.
she also said they had a smaller family house that was buiolt by her grandfather over near I-10 & 310 that she's pretty sure is just gone.

Got call from her Uncle earlier today that her father's carpet buisness is also completely gone.. the uncle went by there on a boat earlier and there's nothign there. :(


so apprantly cell phones are working.

[j-6]

On the google map of the 9th Ward, I counted six "major" cemeteries. Four in Slidell.

[CosmicCowboy]

I would not be surprised if FEMA refuses to let them rebuild in New Orleans...

sometimes it's just best to admit that man can't beat mother nature. They have already set the precedent in the Houston area that it doesn't even take 3 strikes in a subsidence area.

New Orleans is BELOW SEA LEVEL. Once the water in New Orleans stabilizes it will be a bay off of Lake Ponchatrain...

Understand that these structures in New Orleans are going to be underwater for MONTHS. It is salt water, and they are going to be having high/low tides in New Orleans just like the ocean...every structure there...even the high rise hotels, office building etc. will have to be torn down...the re-bar used in the concrete of the foundations of all these structures will rust out and be structurally unstable...

why spend BILLIONS rebuilding it just so the same thing can happen again...

New Orleans as we know it just ceased to exist.

[2pac]

The main cemetaries you are thinking of are near north Canal St.

[2pac]

I would not be surprised if FEMA refuses to let them rebuild in New Orleans...

sometimes it's just best to admit that man can't beat mother nature. They have already set the precedent in the Houston area that it doesn't even take 3 strikes in a subsidence area.

New Orleans is BELOW SEA LEVEL. Once the water in New Orleans stabilizes it will be a bay off of Lake Ponchatrain...

Understand that these structures in New Orleans are going to be underwater for MONTHS. It is salt water, and they are going to be having high/low tides in New Orleans just like the ocean...every structure there...even the high rise hotels, office building etc. will have to be torn down...the re-bar used in the concrete of the foundations of all these structures will rust out and be structurally unstable...

why spend BILLIONS rebuilding it just so the same thing can happen again...

New Orleans as we know it just ceased to exist.

Thanks Captian Happy

[MannyIsGod]

I would not be surprised if FEMA refuses to let them rebuild in New Orleans...

sometimes it's just best to admit that man can't beat mother nature. They have already set the precedent in the Houston area that it doesn't even take 3 strikes in a subsidence area.

New Orleans is BELOW SEA LEVEL. Once the water in New Orleans stabilizes it will be a bay off of Lake Ponchatrain...

Understand that these structures in New Orleans are going to be underwater for MONTHS. It is salt water, and they are going to be having high/low tides in New Orleans just like the ocean...every structure there...even the high rise hotels, office building etc. will have to be torn down...the re-bar used in the concrete of the foundations of all these structures will rust out and be structurally unstable...

why spend BILLIONS rebuilding it just so the same thing can happen again...

New Orleans as we know it just ceased to exist. I was just wondering what effect tidal action would have on buildings. I really do think you paint a likely picture.

[j-6]

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

11:06 A.M. Governor Blanco reports 700 people have been rescued since Monday afternoon, but that many more remain trapped.

11:01 A.M. - Break in 17th Street Canal Levee is now 200 feet wide and slowly flooding the City of New Orleans. Huge sand bags are being airlifted to try to stem the rush of water in that area.

[1369]

the re-bar used in the concrete of the foundations of all these structures will rust out and be structurally unstable....

Cosmic, I'll agree that buildings structural columns and such will require some replacement, but the rebar in the foundations is encased in concrete, and in some of the newer foundations, is most likely epoxy coated. I don't think that entire foundations will have to come out.

[travis2]

I would not be surprised if FEMA refuses to let them rebuild in New Orleans...

sometimes it's just best to admit that man can't beat mother nature. They have already set the precedent in the Houston area that it doesn't even take 3 strikes in a subsidence area.

New Orleans is BELOW SEA LEVEL. Once the water in New Orleans stabilizes it will be a bay off of Lake Ponchatrain...

Understand that these structures in New Orleans are going to be underwater for MONTHS. It is salt water, and they are going to be having high/low tides in New Orleans just like the ocean...every structure there...even the high rise hotels, office building etc. will have to be torn down...the re-bar used in the concrete of the foundations of all these structures will rust out and be structurally unstable...

why spend BILLIONS rebuilding it just so the same thing can happen again...

New Orleans as we know it just ceased to exist.

ummmm...how much is salt water? Sure, some Gulf water got pushed into Ponchartrain, I'm sure...but as a whole, Ponchartrain is fresh water.

[j-6]

CosmicCowboy and 2pac got me thinking...

What would you do so far as a rebuilding if you were the Louisiana reconstruction czar? Rebuild bigger and better with an eye for the future, or abandon the flooded area and start anew?

[CosmicCowboy]

Sorry guys. I graduated summa cum laude with a hybrid civil engineering/architecture degree.

Those buildings will all have to be condemned. Best case scenario as I see it is that they will be underwater for a minimum of three months and they will be structurally destroyed by then. Just the process of dynamiting high rises and hauling off the rubble will take years considering all the roads will have to be rebuilt. They might as well relocate the city to high ground and abandon that site.

[2pac]

http://www.nola.com/hurricane/katrina/pdf/083005_a16a17.pdf

[SWC Bonfire]

Sorry guys. I graduated summa cum laude with a hybrid civil engineering/architecture degree.

Those buildings will all have to be condemned. Best case scenario as I see it is that they will be underwater for a minimum of three months and they will be structurally destroyed by then. Just the process of dynamiting high rises and hauling off the rubble will take years considering all the roads will have to be rebuilt. They might as well relocate the city to high ground and abandon that site.

CC, then you should know better - politics and tourism trump engineering concerns. :lol

[1369]

Sorry guys. I graduated summa cum laude with a hybrid civil engineering/architecture degree.

Those buildings will all have to be condemned. Best case scenario as I see it is that they will be underwater for a minimum of three months and they will be structurally destroyed by then. Just the process of dynamiting high rises and hauling off the rubble will take years considering all the roads will have to be rebuilt. They might as well relocate the city to high ground and abandon that site.

We'll agree to disagree Cosmic, I've worked heavy industrial construction for over 15 years in areas of high caustic and salt water atmospheres, and I don't think that there will be as much demolition required as you do.

[MannyIsGod]

I get away from the land that is below sea level. It's just a losing situation in that area.

[CosmicCowboy]

Cosmic, I'll agree that buildings structural columns and such will require some replacement, but the rebar in the foundations is encased in concrete, and in some of the newer foundations, is most likely epoxy coated. I don't think that entire foundations will have to come out.

The concrete absorbs the salt water until it reaches a saturated moisture content. Even if the rebar was epoxy coated (which it probably wasn't) It will have nicks, scratches, cuts, etc. that will oxidize. Steel expands as it oxidizes and the damaged area continues to split the coating and "grow". The problem is identifying the damaged areas inside the concrete...it might look fine from the outside and suddenly shear five years later with catastrophic collapse of the column/building.

I know I am talking worst case scenario but it is very feasible in this situation.

[MannyIsGod]

11:16 A.M. - Gretna Police Chief...some people south of Gretna Blvd. trapped in water in homes, waiting to be rescued, but believed safe. Several looters arrested, chief says about 50. Lots of debris, at least some structural damage in 95 to 98 percent of buildings. Water is off in Gretna due to barge that was hit and dumped diesel into water supply. Plenty of homes with structural damage...a few that have collapsed. As far as police chief knows, No deaths in Gretna, two minor injuries. Chief says looting has been mainly for groceries. Law enforcement given "whatever authority they need" to prevent looting of homes
I hope nobody gets shot trying to get a fucking loaf of bread.

[Clandestino]

too much money to be made in that area... the city will be rebuilt..

[j-6]

http://www.nola.com/hurricane/katrina/pdf/083005_a16a17.pdf

Thanks for the link. If you go to http://www.nola.com/hurricane/katrina/ , you can read today's Times-Picayune in .pdf format.

[travis2]

I am asking again...my last was not a rhetorical question...


Just how salty is the water in there?

[samikeyp]

You are more compassionate than I am Manny. I think looters should be shot. You steal from someone who was just wiped out, you deserve to die. Although I think if any food places are left, they should give out what they have.

[CosmicCowboy]

We'll agree to disagree Cosmic, I've worked heavy industrial construction for over 15 years in areas of high caustic and salt water atmospheres, and I don't think that there will be as much demolition required as you do.

I hope you are right...but you are working on jobs that were DESIGNED for that environment...stainless re-bar, salt water deterrent admixtures in the concrete etc..I seriously doubt that any NO building codes required that for the "conventional" construction that they were doing...

[Clandestino]

on a small scale, i had a water leak at my house... water was only on the floor for like 2 hours before i had an emergency water restoration company come in.. the cement stayed wet for days. and was very brittle. i had to wait a while before i could even rip up the carpeting tack strips.. i can only imagine what water on concret will do for months...

[SWC Bonfire]

I get away from the land that is below sea level. It's just a losing situation in that area.

Well, it's a good thing there are no hurricanes in the Netherlands.

[MannyIsGod]

You are more compassionate than I am Manny. I think looters should be shot. You steal from someone who was just wiped out, you deserve to die. Although I think if any food places are left, they should give out what they have.
Well, the orders are to protect looting from homes. That is different from looting at a grocery store. These people don't even have water. I know any grocery store I was near would be fair game.

[boutons]

google for "lake ponchartrain salinity"

the first couple site are down, but this isn't:

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2002/of02-206/env-issues/dissolved-oxygen.html

[CosmicCowboy]

I am asking again...my last was not a rhetorical question...


Just how salty is the water in there?

Travis, I don't know the exact content but I suspect that the water that is flowing in now is pretty high salinity considering the storm surge...and Ponchatrain is technically "brackish"...like our lower laguna madre...and that stuff is stiil damned corrosive...

[CharlieMac]

I'm watching video of the looting in Katrina's aftermath......

Only one person was smart enough to not look into the video camera and smile. She was obviously the brains of that group. She even used a cart to pack groceries into and everyone else was using their hands.

Classic stupidity.

[Clandestino]

they just showed a huge 260 foot floating hotel usedto house workers offshore up against a bridge. pretty crazy. they need to bring in some specialists from europe to move it out they say...

it is on fox now

[travis2]

google for "lake ponchartrain salinity"

the first couple site are down, but this isn't:

http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2002/of02-206/env-issues/dissolved-oxygen.html

Thanks for the effort, but that doesn't help a whole lot...the graph is a difference plot, not an absolute one. No baseline to compare it to.

[travis2]

Travis, I don't know the exact content but I suspect that the water that is flowing in now is pretty high salinity considering the storm surge...and Ponchatrain is technically "brackish"...like our lower laguna madre...and that stuff is stiil damned corrosive...

Oh-bee-kay-bee...thanks. :)

[2pac]

Lake Ponchatrain is brackish - kinda salty, kinda fresh

[ChumpDumper]

They might as well put the groceries to use -- it's not like the stores will be able to sell that stuff anyway. It's all about survival now.

[boutons]

"there are no hurricanes in the Netherlands."

But there are very nasty, hurricane-intensity storms and storm-driven tides coming off the N. Sea, for which there is fantastic civil engineering to handle them, not the cheapo, badly maintained earthen levees around NO.

And, horrors, the Dutch are fucking socialists!! :)

London also has storm-gates across the tidal Thames River to fight those same storms and tides.

[travis2]

Lake Ponchatrain is brackish - kinda salty, kinda fresh
:tu

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

(AP) Downtown streets that were relatively clear in the hours after the storm were filled with 1 to 1 1/2 feet of water Tuesday morning. Water was knee-deep around the Superdome. Canal Street was literally a canal. Water lapped at the edge of the French Quarter. Clumps of red ants floated in the gasoline-fouled waters downtown.

11:28 A.M. - JP Councilman Chris Roberts: Three rescued from Grand Isle, according to Grand Isle Mayor.

I included the Grand Isle news because 7 idiots decided to say. Looks like Darwin only did half the job.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah I read that couldn't imagine anyone staying on their own volition on Grand Isle. wtf man?

[Kori Ellis]

They might as well put the groceries to use -- it's not like the stores will be able to sell that stuff anyway. It's all about survival now.

I almost posted the exact same thing, then saw your post. It's sunk cost for the grocery stores now anyway - they won't be able to sell it. I understand that people shouldn't loot people's home or loot places like electronics stores. But groceries? Let them have it.

[j-6]

I almost posted the exact same thing, then saw your post. It's sunk cost for the grocery stores now anyway - they won't be able to sell it. I understand that people shouldn't loot people's home or loot places like electronics stores. But groceries? Let them have it.


This situation is bad enough that people will start killing other people for food. Raiding grocers is just the beginning.

edit- killing people for their food, not in some cannibalistic sense. Sorry.

[2pac]

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=101+Veterans+Blvd,+Metairie,+LA+70005&hl=en

This is the 17th Street Canal - no clue where it broke.

[Clandestino]

did anyone not expect a city of con men and such to loot, steal, etc... i know, it happens everywhere, but i'm sure that no one expected it not to happen in new orleans of all places.

[j-6]

WWL's blog is making this situation look worse and worse. From the last twenty minutes,



11:50 A.M. JP Sheriff asking anyone with a boat to bring it to Sam's Parking lot on Airline to help with evacuations.

11:46 A.M. - (AP) The president asked individual Americans to get involved with the relief effort, suggesting anyone who wishes to help could call 1-800-HELPNOW, log on to the Red Cross Web site or get in touch with the Salvation Army.

11:44 A.M. - LSU becoming a major staging area for injured and evacuees. Campus allowing families of students to house with them. Making facilities available as "community responsibility" according to Chancellor Sean O'Keefe.

11:43 A.M. - Councilman Byron Lee of Jefferson Parish, "This is not life as it used to be. It's like a war zone."

11:39 A.M. (AP) - National Guardsmen brought in people from outlying areas to the Superdome in the backs of big 2 1/2-ton Army trucks. Louisiana's wildlife enforcement department also brought people in on the backs of their pickups. Some were wet, some were in wheelchairs, some were holding babies and nothing else.

[Extra Stout]

This is on the scale of the tsunami disaster now.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Two dead in Slidell in rising waters after attempting to get back to their homes. The victims had initially evacuated.

DUMBASSES.

[samikeyp]

They might as well put the groceries to use -- it's not like the stores will be able to sell that stuff anyway. It's all about survival now.

agreed. Were the looters taking food or stealing stuff from peoples houses? I have no problem with the food from a store.

[ObiwanGinobili]

did ya'll see the new video coverage of GulfPort ??? On MSNNBC

total disaster.. the neighborhoods behind the casinos are just wiped out completely.... the front of the Hotels are ripped off and I saw a hotel that looked liek cookie monster took a chomp out of one side.

No sign of barges....

[j-6]

11:58 A.M. - Homeland security chief optimistic that 3,000 pound sandbags can plug 200 foot levee break at 17th Street Canal.

I'd rather them use the manpower this would involve to help locate survivors at this point.

[batman2883]

I have an off the topic question, where the hell is 1P1 at?

[ObiwanGinobili]

agreed. Were the looters taking food or stealing stuff from peoples houses? I have no problem with the food from a store.


my thoughts too!
and :tu to the lady who was smart enough to fill a grocery cart and NOT look at the camera! :angel

[Clandestino]

i think it is a different scale than the tsunami... we didn't have 100,000 people dead. but there was a lot more material damage than in the tsunami disaster

[KEDA]

the WWL blog has been pretty informative on the situation, I , like Manny have been stuck at work, and have had no access to media coverage, except for internet.

Thnaks for the updates guys!

[ObiwanGinobili]

I have an off the topic question, where the hell is 1P1 at?


me too.... wasn't she going back to school this week tho?
she's only online at work (which is actually an internship i think)

[travis2]

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=101+Veterans+Blvd,+Metairie,+LA+70005&hl=en

This is the 17th Street Canal - no clue where it broke.

I don't know...but based on what I'm reading, might it be broken where it hits the lakefront?

[ObiwanGinobili]

http://www.deadlykatrina.com/

great link, good blog.

[boutons]

great image showing NO elevation in cross-section:

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2005/08/29/GR2005082900046.jpg

[batman2883]

me too.... wasn't she going back to school this week tho?
she's only online at work (which is actually an internship i think)


Yeah but still i miss my tofu cheesesteak woman...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Reports are the uptown area of New Orleans (wherever that is, Tom?) were high and dry yesterday but after the levee break overnight are now covered with 3 feet of water.

It looks like New Orleans is slowly drowning :depressing

[travis2]

Hey 2pac...does this help any?

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/050830/050830_katrina_hlrg_10a.hlarge.jpg

[travis2]

Hey 2pac...does this help any?

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/050830/050830_katrina_hlrg_10a.hlarge.jpg

Here's the article that went with it...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9130254/


Details on where the levees had given way were hard to come by, but the most serious breach appeared to be "a large section of the vital 17th Street Canal levee, where it connects to the brand new 'hurricane proof' Old Hammond Highway bridge," according to the New Orleans Times-Picayune.

"The breach sent a churning sea of water from Lake Pontchartrain coursing across Lakeview and into Mid-City, Carrollton, Gentilly, City Park and neighborhoods farther south and east," the newspaper said.

[Extra Stout]

i think it is a different scale than the tsunami... we didn't have 100,000 people dead. but there was a lot more material damage than in the tsunami disasterThe tsunami death toll probably goes up as high as 300,000.

I don't think we have 100,000 dead here, but tens of thousands dead is probable, and there are at least 1 million people homeless, and we're talking about a potential total loss of the largest port in the United States.

[ChumpDumper]

This is the 17th Street Canal - no clue where it broke.CNN was showing a VIPR map and I believe they showed the breach very near where your marker is -- couldn't remember if it was north or south of the highway.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

^^^^^^^ damn that doesn't look good.

[samikeyp]

Didn't someone say that New Orleans was slowly sinking before all this? Looks like mother nature is accelerating the process.

[batman2883]

Man i love New Orleans too, they have great food and great streets

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I don't think we have 100,000 dead here, but tens of thousands dead is probable

Considering the fact that New Orleans is being flooded at the moment, and they predict water will continue to rise for DAYS, I don't think you can rule out any particular death totals just yet.

Keep in mind you've got the rest of La., Mississippi, and Alabama to factor in as well.

They're reporting Slidell is completely underwater, and reportedly lots of folks foolishly stayed in town to ride it out (population 13000)

[2pac]

CNN was showing a VIPR map and I believe they showed the breach very near where your marker is -- couldn't remember if it was north or south of the highway.

It is south of the HWY

[ObiwanGinobili]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9063708/

incredible pics in the slide show... it's a flash file so i have no idea how to snatch the pics and host them directly here...

[ObiwanGinobili]

BTW- gas is up an average of 50cents nationwide.......

[Kori Ellis]

BTW- gas is up an average of 50cents nationwide.......


We got gas last night and it was actually down by five or six cents from a few days before. I wonder if it's up at that same station today.

[ObiwanGinobili]

I havn't left the house in days so I was hoping someone here could say what the local prices are looking liek this afternoon...

[2pac]

"To be honest with you, people who are oppressed all their lives, man, it's an opportunity to get back at society," he said.


--- looter---

[SpursWoman]

"To be honest with you, people who are oppressed all their lives, man, it's an opportunity to get back at society," he said.


--- looter---


If he's lucky, he can grab a watch off The Man's dead body as it floats on by. That'll show 'em.

:(

[KEDA]

"To be honest with you, people who are oppressed all their lives, man, it's an opportunity to get back at society," he said.


--- looter---


shoot first ask later!

[Jelly]

I havn't left the house in days so I was hoping someone here could say what the local prices are looking liek this afternoon...

check out this site, Obiwan

www.gasbuddy.com

You can pull up all prices at various stations in your area. In my area (DC) gas is about 2.80. There are speculations that it may rise another 20 cents within the week. yikes.

[j-6]

This is an account of a Charlotte weatherman holed up in New Orleans. I watched his videos earlier...pretty wild. They're on the page I linked to below.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.wcnc.com/news/local/stories/wcnc-083005-jmn-brad_day_2.b456bb2.html

6NEWS meteorologist Brad Panovich, who weathered Katrina inside the Hyatt Hotel across from the Superdome in New Orleans, is still in the city and tells us what it’s like the day after.

Brad Panovich said he was back at the station Tuesday after being evacuated into a conference room inside a hotel while Katrina hit the city Monday morning.

“I was able to get my first shower in almost 48 hours,” said Panovich. “Got a little bit of sleep, so its been a lot better a little more comfortable here even though we still don’t have power and communication is still pretty poor across area.”

Panovich said he was glad to get back to the station even though moving through the city was extremely slow and hazardous.

“Its been pretty bad since yesterday when we talked,” Panovich recounted. “We were able to get back here to the station. The Hyatt situation was pretty miserable. We were all crammed in that room. We couldn’t go outside the hotel because of all the damage being done to the hotel. You pretty much felt helpless and you pretty much wanted to get back here to the station.”

He said a firefighter escorted them up to their rooms to get their belongings they had left behind around 10 a.m. They has to take the stairs because the elevator shaft had been flooded by the previous days rain.

“I got into my room to get my luggage and the window was completely blown out. You could see out into the roof of the Superdome and there was glass everywhere. We got our stuff and trekked back to the station in a caravan of vans dodging the debris,” said Panovich.

He said it took a very long time to get back to the station due to the mess the storm had left behind. He said at every intersection the lights were down, the trees were down, and you had to swerve around it.

“Three of our vans actually got flat tires because of all the debris we had to drive over,” said Panovich.

He said they finally got back to the station and got the generator back up and running. The worked to get the station back in working order and were back on the air by 4 p.m. They stayed on the air until 11 p.m. to take a break and get some sleep but were back on the air by 8 a.m. Tuesday.

“The thing was once we got back to the station and we got out and tried to do some reporting we really started to see the devastation in the city. The amount of water was just unbelievable,” said Panovich.

Many of the windows of the Hyatt were blown out during the storm.

He said the center part of the city was dry, but everything around that part of the city was under water. He said it wasn’t the worst scenario imaginable, but you don’t need to stray far to find heavy flooding in every direction.

“That’s sort of limiting us too because we’re kind of stuck in an island right now,” explained Panovich.

He said for much of the day they were out of communication with their crew in Mississippi and they didn’t have much information. When they finally did find out that the area to the east had been harder hit it was hard to comprehend.

“Its hard for us to imagine how bad it is there because it’s so bad here, and we just got brushed, we didn’t actually get the direct hit,” said Panovich.

Panovich said the big story today is the lack of supplies needed for basic survival.

He said people are still trapped in the Superdome and in their homes. The Superdome, which served as a shelter for the city for people who were unable to evacuate, suffered from a roof collapse Monday. Panovich said they moved the people up into the upper seats away from the middle of the field where rain and debris were coming into the stadium.

“They don’t really have anywhere else to send them and because it’s so bad they’re really not allowed to leave,” said Panovich.

He also said water cannot be drunk unless it has been boiled, but with electricity out, there is no way for many to get drinking water.

“Most of the perishable food has either gone bad or been eaten. Already food and water are becoming a big concern right now for folks in shelters and folks trapped in their homes in the Metro area,” said Panovich.

Panovich said that he knows aid is on the way but it will be hard to get into the city. He said the causeway bridge from the north has been destroyed. Also I-10, which runs from Florida to Arizona and the eastern artery into the city, has also been wiped out.

“Basically they’ve got to come in from the west and even there is water. Probably the only way you could come in is by air, and that may be the way these supplies will have to come in,” he said.

That lack of supplies has also led to some people giving in to darker instincts. Some people have been looting stores taking what they need.
Some of the wreckage the crew saw on the way back to the station.

“That was probably the scariest moment yesterday as we were driving back we saw some men at the Winn Dixie not to far from the station looting. Police came pretty quickly and busted that up but when we got back to the station you’d see groups of men in pickup trucks. You’d see these guys driving around in pickup trucks and they’re just driving around looking for opportunities to take advantage of the situation,” Panovich recalled.

He said there was even a situation where one looter shot another and officials were unable to get him help because the hospital couldn’t treat him because of the conditions from the aftermath of the storm.

“After sunset it got dark, and that’s when it got rally scary because you would look out at this major U.S. city and not a light was on. For the first time since I’ve ever been here I could look up and see every star in the sky. It was that dark,” said Panovich. That’s when it was kind of scary because our station, I know this sounds kind of weird, but we were kind of like a Christmas tree because we were the only ones with power and people knew that and we have some supplies here.”

He said security was a big issue overnight and they had to lock down the station to make sure people wouldn’t try and break in.

“It’s almost that sort of ‘Lord of the Flies’ thing where people are looking for what you have and they don’t,” said Panovich.

[ObiwanGinobili]

check out this site, Obiwan

www.gasbuddy.com

You can pull up all prices at various stations in your area. In my area (DC) gas is about 2.80. There are speculations that it may rise another 20 cents within the week. yikes.


2.35 at the local diamond shamrock as of 6:55 this morning.....down 3 cents from yesterday.

damn CNN/FOX/NBC....... propganda crap.

[samikeyp]

Has anyone heard if the Pontchartrain Causeway held up ok? I think that is the world's longest suspension bridge or something.

[Jelly]

2.35 at the local diamond shamrock as of 6:55 this morning.....down 3 cents from yesterday.

damn CNN/FOX/NBC....... propganda crap.

count yourself lucky. Gas prices in my hood...

2.88 Exxon Chevy Chase Tue
7:11 AM dkjlb

5300 Connecticut (Connecticut & Livingston)
2.88 Exxon Washington - NW Sat
3:37 PM mdrvr

4812 MacArthur Blvd
2.87 Mobil Washington - NW Tue
11:39 AM turtle17

Intersection of 22nd and P Streets N.W.
2.87 Exxon Chevy Chase Tue
7:11 AM dkjlb

Connecticut & Nebraska
2.85 BP Chevy Chase Tue
7:11 AM dkjlb

Connecticut & Nebraska
2.85 Exxon Chevy Chase Tue
7:11 AM dkjlb

Connecticut & Porter
2.85 Exxon Alexandria Mon
6:39 PM Joe A

[Extra Stout]

Has anyone heard if the Pontchartrain Causeway held up ok? I think that is the world's longest suspension bridge or something.It's a causeway, not a suspension bridge, and no, it is not intact.

[travis2]

Has anyone heard if the Pontchartrain Causeway held up ok? I think that is the world's longest suspension bridge or something.

Causeway is OK, but open only to emergency vehicles.

It's the world's longest bridge, but it's a pontoon bridge, not a suspension.

[Extra Stout]

Causeway is OK, but open only to emergency vehicles.

It's the world's longest bridge, but it's a pontoon bridge, not a suspension.Is that an update, that it is OK? I'd heard that a barge hit it.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The barge hit the high rise bridge that spans from NO to Slidell. The Causeway is being used as a staging area for emergency personnel.

[1369]

I read the same thing about the causeway as well.

[ObiwanGinobili]

It's a causeway, not a suspension bridge, and no, it is not intact.


Is that that incredibly long bridge they were showing on FOX news ?

If so it is completely gone.. just the pylons are still standing, each sectiuon of road top collapsed.

[ObiwanGinobili]

whoa.... someone jumped to their death inside the Superdome.?? :wow

[travis2]

Is that an update, that it is OK? I'd heard that a barge hit it.


I don't recall which on-line news I saw that on...but I saw it this morning.

[travis2]

Is that that incredibly long bridge they were showing on FOX news ?

If so it is completely gone.. just the pylons are still standing, each sectiuon of road top collapsed.

Different one. The I-10 bridge between NO and Slidell is a long one...and it's toast. But it's not the Causeway.

[KEDA]

where did you hear this?


about the jumping at the Superdome?

[ObiwanGinobili]

where did you hear this?


who you talking to and what bout?

[samikeyp]

It's a causeway, not a suspension bridge, and no, it is not intact.

hence the "or something" in my post.

I am guessing there is a difference? I thought "causeway" was more along the lines of a description (like "highway" or "boulevard") whereas suspension bridge was more the type of structure. Any of you engineers want to tackle this? :)

[travis2]

Is that that incredibly long bridge they were showing on FOX news ?

If so it is completely gone.. just the pylons are still standing, each sectiuon of road top collapsed.

Here's a map of Lake Pontchartrain...

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=new+orleans,+la&ll=30.182528,-90.052185&spn=0.411630,0.613827&hl=en

The LONG north/south route between Metarie and Mandeville is the Causeway. I saw something in the news this morning that it was OK, but is closed to all but emergency traffic.

The shorter south-west/north-east is the "I-10 bridge". That is the one that is torn up.

[j-6]

"To be honest with you, people who are oppressed all their lives, man, it's an opportunity to get back at society," he said.


--- looter---

http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/news/nation/12514548.htm

Looting begins in New Orleans

ALLEN G. BREED

Associated Press



NEW ORLEANS - With much of the city emptied by Hurricane Katrina, some opportunists took advantage of the situation by looting stores.

At a Walgreen's drug store in the French Quarter, people were running out with grocery baskets and coolers full of soft drinks, chips and diapers.

When police finally showed up, a young boy stood in the door screaming, "86! 86!" - the radio code for police - and the crowd scattered.

Denise Bollinger, a tourist from Philadelphia, stood outside and snapped pictures in amazement.

"It's downtown Baghdad," the housewife said. "It's insane. I've wanted to come here for 10 years. I thought this was a sophisticated city. I guess not."

Around the corner on Canal Street, the main thoroughfare in the central business district, people sloshed headlong through hip-deep water as looters ripped open the steel gates on the front of several clothing and jewelry stores.

One man, who had about 10 pairs of jeans draped over his left arm, was asked if he was salvaging things from his store.

"No," the man shouted, "that's EVERYBODY'S store."

Looters filled industrial-sized garbage cans with clothing and jewelry and floated them down the street on bits of plywood and insulation as National Guard lumbered by.

Mike Franklin stood on the trolley tracks and watched the spectacle unfold.

"To be honest with you, people who are oppressed all their lives, man, it's an opportunity to get back at society," he said.

[samikeyp]

"for God sakes! Save the jeans!!" :rolleyes

That fucker needs to just drown.

[boutons]

Another graphic of a disaster in the making, for 200 years.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2005/08/29/national/050830_nat_COAST.gif

[Kori Ellis]

Like I said, I can understand looting for food and other essentials, but the other stuff is ridiculous. But don't worry God has something to say about people like that in the end.

[samikeyp]

good find, Boutons.

[ObiwanGinobili]

At a Walgreen's drug store in the French Quarter, people were running out with grocery baskets and coolers full of soft drinks, chips and diapers.

When police finally showed up, a young boy stood in the door screaming, "86! 86!" - the radio code for police - and the crowd scattered.

Denise Bollinger, a tourist from Philadelphia, stood outside and snapped pictures in amazement.

"It's downtown Baghdad," the housewife said. "It's insane. I've wanted to come here for 10 years. I thought this was a sophisticated city. I guess not."

:flipoff well fuck denise.
chips and soda is the kinda food they have at walgreens... and diapers??? how the hell can you fault someone from taking diapers??
What are these people sopposed ot do? call the manager to come down and open the store and then pay him with thier debit cards?? :rolleyes. what ever

[samikeyp]

the diapers and food I get....its the jeans I draw the line at. :)

[ObiwanGinobili]

thats guy with the jeans tho... he's just an asshole.

[SpursWoman]

2.35 at the local diamond shamrock as of 6:55 this morning.....down 3 cents from yesterday.

damn CNN/FOX/NBC....... propganda crap.


FWIT, I filled up Sunday at $2.59...it was $2.69 when I just drove by at lunch.

[samikeyp]

thats guy with the jeans tho... he's just an asshole.

im hoping a gator will get him, personally.

[Jelly]

A lot of this looting isn't about food as others have pointed out. There was this family on MSNBC that just got back to their house - more like a hovel...they were obviously low-income people. And people had stolen their refrigerator, oven range, TV, stereo, a computer and a bunch of personal items. The family had to go back to the shelter. I don't buy this "we're just getting back at society" BS.

[Kori Ellis]

St. John Parish hospital closed at this time. Water working but must be boiled. Parish president Nickie Monica asks residents who have evacuated to stay out. Good News, no major structural damage. Monica says schools and offices closed until further notice. He asks that St. John Parish be made a priority to be used as a staging area for other parishes that suffered worse fates. 911 not working...EMERGENCIES IN ST. JOHN PARISH...1-985-652-6338, 1-985-536-2112...west bank 1-985-497-3321.

[ObiwanGinobili]

A lot of this looting isn't about food as others have pointed out. There was this family on MSNBC that just got back to their house - more like a hovel...they were obviously low-income people. And people had stolen their refrigerator, oven range, TV, stereo, a computer and a bunch of personal items. The family had to go back to the shelter. I don't buy this "we're just getting back at society" BS.


now see thats fucked up.
looting people's houses and radioshack... no excuses.

but looting rite aid, sav-a-lot or the HEB equivelant I don't have a problem with.

[SPARKY]

Waves in Bay St Louis were probably over 32 feet.

Yeah. The one good thing for that town is that a good portion of it sits about 20 feet or so above the bay, so at least there was some kind of buffer from the initial strike.

Still, fuck.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Governor reitterating that evacuation order is STILL in effect for NO and that people are NOT allowed to come back into the city. they are attempting to remove all remaining people from NO.

[Jelly]

Sparky,
what's going on in that picture?

[Jelly]

oh, never mind :) I see the Artest jersey

[Mixability]

Sparky,
what's going on in that picture?

Malice at the Palace

[ObiwanGinobili]

law just went into effect 2 weeks ago.....

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2005-08-11-louisiana-looting_x.htm

Changes stiffen price-gouging, looting laws
NEW ORLEANS (AP) — Taking advantage of Louisiana residents during hurricanes and tropical storms becomes a much riskier venture on Monday.
Under this year's legislative change to the state price-gouging law, civil and criminal action can be taken against the providers of goods and services who jack up prices anytime when a named hurricane or tropical storm is either in the Gulf of Mexico or threatening the Gulf.

And another change taking place Monday calls for a minimum three-year prison sentence for anyone convicted of looting during a state of emergency.

Previously, the price-gouging law took effect only when the governor or a parish president declared a state of emergency — an action that usually takes place up to several days after a storm starts threatening the Louisiana coast.

Rep. Steve Scalise, R-Metairie, co-sponsor of the bill, said price-gouging complaints are not numerous, but a problem that requires stern action. The change is designed to protect consumers during times when they are deciding whether to evacuate and what measures to take to guard their property, he said.

"To be taking advantage of people during a time when they are concerned about the safety of their families requires heavier penalties," he said.

Civil action can be taken against price-gougers, including fines and restitution. Criminal penalties range up to six months in jail and $500 in fines for each violation.

The state attorney general's office recently received more than 300 complaints of gasoline price-gouging as Hurricane Dennis moved into the Gulf in July, eventually striking Florida, said agency spokeswoman Kris Wartelle. Those complaints are being investigated. The industry said Dennis hit about the same time that a new record price for oil was reached — and the price jumps would have occurred without the storm.

Also, looting during states of emergency starts carrying heavier penalties on Monday: a three-year minimum prison sentence and up to 15 years. Backers of that bill said fear of being looted was a hindrance to getting storm-threatened residents to evacuate.

In 2003, in Lake Charles, three brothers were each sentenced to two years in prison for breaking into two pharmacies during the threat of Hurricane Lili in October 2002.

[Mixability]

law just went into effect 2 weeks ago.....

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/news/2005-08-11-louisiana-looting_x.htm

Changes stiffen price-gouging, looting laws
NEW ORLEANS (AP) — Taking advantage of Louisiana residents during hurricanes and tropical storms becomes a much riskier venture on Monday.
Under this year's legislative change to the state price-gouging law, civil and criminal action can be taken against the providers of goods and services who jack up prices anytime when a named hurricane or tropical storm is either in the Gulf of Mexico or threatening the Gulf.

And another change taking place Monday calls for a minimum three-year prison sentence for anyone convicted of looting during a state of emergency.

Previously, the price-gouging law took effect only when the governor or a parish president declared a state of emergency — an action that usually takes place up to several days after a storm starts threatening the Louisiana coast.

Rep. Steve Scalise, R-Metairie, co-sponsor of the bill, said price-gouging complaints are not numerous, but a problem that requires stern action. The change is designed to protect consumers during times when they are deciding whether to evacuate and what measures to take to guard their property, he said.

"To be taking advantage of people during a time when they are concerned about the safety of their families requires heavier penalties," he said.

Civil action can be taken against price-gougers, including fines and restitution. Criminal penalties range up to six months in jail and $500 in fines for each violation.

The state attorney general's office recently received more than 300 complaints of gasoline price-gouging as Hurricane Dennis moved into the Gulf in July, eventually striking Florida, said agency spokeswoman Kris Wartelle. Those complaints are being investigated. The industry said Dennis hit about the same time that a new record price for oil was reached — and the price jumps would have occurred without the storm.

Also, looting during states of emergency starts carrying heavier penalties on Monday: a three-year minimum prison sentence and up to 15 years. Backers of that bill said fear of being looted was a hindrance to getting storm-threatened residents to evacuate.

In 2003, in Lake Charles, three brothers were each sentenced to two years in prison for breaking into two pharmacies during the threat of Hurricane Lili in October 2002.

how about just execute em? :angel

[ObiwanGinobili]

FOX news reporting that a few parishe's in LA have declared marshal law.... looking for more info on this.

[Jimcs50]

check out this site, Obiwan

www.gasbuddy.com

You can pull up all prices at various stations in your area. In my area (DC) gas is about 2.80. There are speculations that it may rise another 20 cents within the week. yikes.


Damn, gas is a lot cheaper in SA than here in College Station. It is 15 cents higher here on average.

[travis2]

FOX news reporting that a few parishe's in LA have declared marshal law.... looking for more info on this.

Jefferson and Plaquemines parishes under martial law according to WWL-TV

[Kori Ellis]

"I'm very hopeful, with the devastation we've had, that the number (of deaths) will be much more reasonable than people think. There are not thousands of people floating around." -- Terry Ebbert, New Orleans' homeland security chief.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I hate to say it, but I think the people aren't floating around because they've drowned in their homes, attics, etc.

[Mixability]

I hate to say it, but I think the people aren't floating around because they've drowned in their homes, attics, etc.

Hopefully not

[ObiwanGinobili]

"At first light, the devastation is greater than our worst fears. It's just totally overwhelming," Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco said the morning after Katrina howled ashore with winds of 145 mph and engulfed thousands of homes in one of the most punishing storms on record in the United States.

In New Orleans, meanwhile, water began rising in the streets Tuesday morning, apparently because of a break on a levee along a canal leading to Lake Pontchartrain. New Orleans lies mostly below sea level and is protected by a network of pumps, canals and levees. Many of the pumps were not working Tuesday morning.

Officials planned to use helicopters to drop 3,000-pound sandbags into the breach, and expressed confidence the problem could be solved within hours

[ObiwanGinobili]

life inside the superdome.


The bathrooms are filthy and barrels overflow with trash. With the air conditioning off since power went out Monday morning, the bricks are slick with humidity.
We're doing everything we can to keep these people comfortable," Gen. Ralph Lupin, commander of the National Guard troops at the Superdome, said Tuesday morning. "We're doing our best. It's not getting any better but we're trying not to let it get any worse."

"I know people want to leave, but they can't leave," he said. "There's 3 feet of water around the Superdome."

The situation was especially difficult for those in wheelchairs, who were lined up in rows five deep along a wall. One patient's IV bag was attached to a stadium seating sign.

Officials were considering moving the patients to areas with better accommodations.

"This is just too hot, too primitive, too uncomfortable for the patients and too hard to work in for the medical people," said Dr. Kevin Stephens Sr., head of the medical shelter in the Superdome.

Two people have died, according to Doug Thornton, a regional vice president for the company that manages the Superdome. He provided no other details.

The refugees spent Monday sitting in the seats of the 77,000-seat stadium — home of the NFL's New Orleans Saints — or sprawled out on blankets and towels on the floor. They played cards and read books and magazines in areas where the emergency lights worked. Refugees were given two military-style meals in a pouch a day.

[ObiwanGinobili]

www.nola.com

Martial law declared

Local television stations report that Orleans, Jefferson and Plaquemines parishes are all now under martial law, allowing the military to assume control over civilian forces.

[boutons]

August 30, 2005

After Centuries of 'Controlling' Land, Gulf Learns Who's the Boss

By CORNELIA DEAN
and ANDREW C. REVKIN

The Gulf Coast has always been vulnerable to coastal storms, but over the years people have made things worse, particularly in Louisiana, where Hurricane Katrina struck yesterday. Since the 18th century, when French colonial administrators required land claimants to establish ownership by building levees along bayous, streams and rivers, people have been trying to dominate the region's landscape and the forces of its nature.

As long as people could control floods, they could do business. But, as people learned too late, the landscape of South Louisiana depends on floods: it is made of loose Mississippi River silt, and the ground subsides as this silt consolidates. Only regular floods of muddy water can replenish the sediment and keep the landscape above water. But flood control projects channel the river's nourishing sediment to the end of the birdfoot delta and out into the deep water of the Gulf of Mexico.

Although early travelers realized the irrationality of building a port on shifting mud in an area regularly ravaged by storms and disease, the opportunities to make money overrode all objections.

When most transport was by water, people would of course settle along the Mississippi River, and of course they would build a port city near its mouth. In the 20th century, when oil and gas fields were developed in the gulf, of course people added petrochemical refineries and factories to the river mix, convenient to both drillers and shippers. To protect it all, they built an elaborate system of levees, dams, spillways and other installations.

As one 19th-century traveler put it, according to Ari Kelman, an environmental historian at the University of California, Davis, "New Orleans is surprising evidence of what men will endure, when cheered by the hopes of an ever-flowing tide of dollars and cents."

In the last few decades, more and more people have realized what a terrible bargain the region made when it embraced - unwittingly, perhaps - environmental degradation in exchange for economic gains.

Abby Sallenger, a scientist with the United States Geological Survey who has studied the Louisiana landscape for years, sees the results of this bargain when he makes his regular flights over the Gulf Coast or goes by boat to one of the string of sandy barrier islands that line the state's coast.

The islands are the region's first line of defense against hurricane waves and storm surges. Marshes, which can normally absorb storm water, are its second.

But, starved of sediment, the islands have shrunk significantly in recent decades. And though the rate of the marshes' loss has slowed somewhat, they are still disappearing, "almost changing before your eyes," as Dr. Sallenger put it in a telephone interview from his office in St. Petersburg, Fla. "Grassland turns into open water, ponds turn into lakes."

Without the fine sediment that nourishes marshes and the coarser sediment that feeds eroding barrier islands, "the entire delta region is sinking," he said. In effect, he said, it is suffering a rise in sea level of about a centimeter - about a third of an inch - a year, 10 times the average rate globally.

"Some of the future projections of sea level rise elsewhere in the country due to global warming would approach what we presently see in Louisiana," Dr. Sallenger said.

Hurricane Katrina was a strong storm, Category 4, when it came ashore east of New Orleans, near a string of barriers called the Chandeleur Islands. "They were already vulnerable, extremely so," Dr. Sallenger said.

He said he and his colleagues were reviewing photos, radar images and other measurements made of the islands after Hurricane Lili, a Category 2 hurricane that passed over them in 2002.

"The degree of change in that storm was extreme," he said. "So we had a discussion this morning: O.K., if Lili can do this, who knows what Katrina is going to do?" The scientists expect to fly over the coast on Wednesday and find out.

Of course, New Orleans is vulnerable to flooding from the Mississippi River as well as from coastal storms. North of the city, the Army Corps of Engineers has marked out several places where the levees would be deliberately breached in the event of a potentially disastrous river flood threat, sending water instead into uninhabited "spillways."

But there is no way to stop a hurricane storm surge from thundering over a degraded landscape - except, perhaps, by restoring the landscape to let the Mississippi flow over it more often.

Some small efforts are being made. For example, at the Old River Control Structure, an installation of dams, turbines and other facilities just north of Baton Rouge that keeps the Mississippi on its established path, workers collect sediment that piles along the dams and cart it by truck into the marshes.

But truly letting the river run would exact unacceptably heavy costs - costs that would be paid immediately by people in the region and in particular by any politician rash enough to endorse such a plan.

Instead, there continue to be efforts to build more capacity into New Orleans flood control efforts, said Craig E. Colten, a geographer at Louisiana State University and the author of a new book, "An Unnatural Metropolis: Wresting New Orleans From Nature" (Louisiana State University Press, 2005). That will mean ever more costs, Mr. Colten said, given that the city, which is below sea level, must run pumps simply to keep from being flooded in an ordinary rainstorm.

Roy K. Dokka, a geologist at Louisiana State, said flooding would be even worse for decades to come, not just in New Orleans but in the entire Gulf Coast region.

The consequences were clear yesterday, Dr. Dokka said, around Port Fourchon, La., where the single road that is the commuting route for oil workers heading to offshore rigs lay under water. "That road that all the roughnecks and oil workers drive down every day has sunk a foot in 20 years," he said. "It's now under water every time there's a significant south wind blowing."

But as Dr. Kelman said: "Once you've invested enough in urban infrastructure, you have to keep on buying in. And that doesn't even count the cultural dimension." The reference was to the region's cuisine, culture and mystique.

"With billions of dollars sunk into the soil in southern Louisiana and the Gulf Coast," Dr. Kelman said, "it's kind of too late. We're there, and we're staying there."

Copyright 2005 The New York Times Company

[CosmicCowboy]

I realize I am just a dumb Texan but where the hell are the Marines? They have a whole fleet of hovercraft/landing craft that would be perfect for a mass rescue scenario like this...no props or jet pump suctions to foul...they can drive over dry land and cross water etc...they sure aren't using them in Iraq...they could use them for base stations as they gather up survivors and take them out in large numbers...

[boutons]

Marines?

Ask the commander-in-chief. He cut short his Crawford vacation to "monitor" the Katrina disaster.

Somebody go tell the stupid motherfucker to do something positive with his fucking life. He'll probably claim "sorry, guvmint be broke, ya'll. Tax cuts for rich + corps, y'all know that comes first, last, and always. I'll go see if China will kind lend me some $$$."

[2pac]

Leave it to the NYT to write a "I told you so" Article while people drown in their attics.

[MannyIsGod]

your marine battalions that operate that equipment are in iraq.

[2pac]

Marines?

Ask the commander-in-chief. He cut short his Crawford vacation to "monitor" the Katrina disaster.

Somebody go tell the stupid motherfucker to do something positive with his fucking life. He'll probably claim "sorry, guvmint be broke, ya'll. Tax cuts for rich + corps, y'all know that comes first, last, and always. I'll go see if China will kind lend me some $$$."

Take it somewhere else where people want to hear your idiotic political rhetoric. This thread is neither the time nor the place.

[batman2883]

Marines?

Ask the commander-in-chief. He cut short his Crawford vacation to "monitor" the Katrina disaster.

Somebody go tell the stupid motherfucker to do something positive with his fucking life. He'll probably claim "sorry, guvmint be broke, ya'll. Tax cuts for rich + corps, y'all know that comes first, last, and always. I'll go see if China will kind lend me some $$$."



President Bush is the man, your just hating

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You're a real dick, boutons.

There's that whole little consititutional issue of the US military operating on domestic soil, remember.

I think they'd have to figure out a way to "lend" some of them to the National Guard in this situation. Regardless, it's not like they've got those hovercraft laying around the southern US. Closest place they have them is Camp Lejeune in NC. So they'd have to put them on a boat and ferry them around Florida and into the Gulf.

All that aside, if you want to get political take it to the political forum and leave this post free for news.

[2pac]

Military can operate here during Marshall Law

[travis2]

12:44 P.M. - (AP) The Louisiana Offshore Oil Port did NOT suffer major damage as a result of Hurricane Katrina. And a port official says the flow of oil could resume within "a matter of hours" once its power supply is restored.

[2pac]

This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States Dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar, or the Douglas DC-10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon — not once, but several times — and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the American who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those.



That was written in the 70s.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Good point Tom. Still, it would take days for the hovercraft to get to NO at this point.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The Environmental Protection Agency has dispatched emergency crews because of concerns about oils and gasoline in the rising waters in New Orleans. At least one tanker is believed to be partially sunk and is leaking oil.

[2pac]

The hovercrafts are built in NO. I went through the factory as a kid.

The landing craft for DDay was built there too.


D-Day museam - I never got to go. :(

[CosmicCowboy]

Good point Tom. Still, it would take days for the hovercraft to get to NO at this point.

Don't confuse me with the guy talking smack about Bush...

I just know they have inflatable/trailerable hovercraft versions...you see them practicing on Canyon Lake occasionally...they were just up there a couple of weeks ago...Hopefully someone has thought about it and they are on the way...they are the perfect rescue craft for that kind of situation...

[2pac]

With all the sharp points sticking out of the water, they probably arent real interested in hovercrafts.

Flat bottom boats is where it is at.

[ObiwanGinobili]

I realize I am just a dumb Texan but where the hell are the Marines?


i'm startign to think Marines are a myth what with Iraq, base closures, military cutbacks... I think we truthfully only have 200 marines .. they just travel a whole lot.

[spurster]

Man, NO is just FUBAR. With 80% of the city under salty water (by some reports), that is going to mess up everything underground. The reconstruction is going to measured in years. Hundreds of thousands (millions?) of people will have to moved out and provided for.

[ObiwanGinobili]

according to FOX news the mayor of NO just got back from a boat ride and did see bodies floating around.

sucks.

[ObiwanGinobili]

2:01 P.M. - Jefferson Parish President Aaron Broussard says there is no plumbing and the sanitary situation is getting nasty. He told WAFB-TV that he is carrying around a bag for his own human waste.

[Guru of Nothing]

Well, I am among the extremely lucky ones here in downtown MS. 3% of the homes (as of this morning) in the metro-Jackson area had electricity restored, and I was among the lucky 3%. Just recently my cell phone started working. My landline at home is down, and cable is out. Of course cable is no big deal, except I'd like to find out what the news reports are saying. For now, I'm limping along on dial-up here in a isolated corner of the computer room.

Locally, I heard reports that we had winds of 75 mph. I'm not sure if that was sustained or gusts. Lots of tree damage and debris. Property damage is probably light in the area - roofs, signs, etc.

Power outages have made traffic in my neck of the woods quite hectic - every intersection is virtually a 4-way stop sign. I had heard that the population of Jackson doubled with people fleeing the gulf coast, and I'm sure almost everyone of them are wanting to get back down there as soon as possible, but most gasoline retail outlets are shut down. Even if the retailers have fuel in the tanks, there is no power to run the pumps.

I feel bad for the people stuck here in a state of anxiety. They must be going insane wondering what happened to their homes, friends and family - not to mention their places of employment.

In the meantime, as much as I want to be out there helping, until gas and traffic begin to flow, I'd only get in the way, so I'll just stay low and count my blessings. I am not looking forward to hearing all the gory details that will emerge from the gulf coast.

Adios.

[Spurminator]

Glad to hear you're well, Guru. God Bless.

[samikeyp]

Stay strong brother.

[ObiwanGinobili]

:tu
Glad your all right GoN!

[2pac]

Good to hear Matt.

[SpursWoman]

Thank goodness you're okay, Matt... :makeout :)


You're just in time to read about how the disaster in NO & MS & AL is all Bush & his administrations' fault. :)

[MannyIsGod]

2:09 P.M. - Video on WAFB-TV shows the Twin Spans between I-10 and Slidell broken in dozens of spots.

[travis2]

Jeff Parish President. Residents will probably be allowed back in town in a week, with identification only, but only to get essentials and clothing. You will then be asked to leave and not come back for one month.

per WWL-TV

[Spurminator]

You will then be asked to leave and not come back for one month.

Saw that too... Can you imagine postponing your life for a month?

[ObiwanGinobili]

Army Corp of engineers reports.......

17th st canal levee failed and broke after water crested it and it couldn't hold up.

a 2nd leveee failure was at "industrial " canal

expecting a possible 3rd levee break/failure at somthign called "pumping station #3"

1st prioity of ACoE is to repair/block/fill these breakages.

[ObiwanGinobili]

2:07 P.M. - (AP) -- A top casino executive is calling on the Mississippi Legislature to enact emergency legislation to keep the state's coast gaming industry alive.


Treasure Bay Casino President and CEO Bernie Burkholder says most of the casino hotels on the coast survived Hurricane Katrina, but several gambling barges suffered extensive damage. He says it could take several years to rebuild.

glad to see this guys priority's are straight. :rolleyes
he couldn;t wait a bit to bring that up?

[Extra Stout]

I hope we're ready to give until it hurts to help the survivors. It will take a lot to get Mississippi and Louisiana back on their feet. These folks are our neighbors.

[SpursWoman]

glad to see this guys priority's are straight. :rolleyes
he couldn;t wait a bit to bring that up?


Those barges and casinos employ a lot of people, although I think it's going to be a really long time before it even matters.

[Extra Stout]

glad to see this guys priority's are straight. :rolleyes
he couldn;t wait a bit to bring that up?
These things bring out the best and the worst in people. Often, in the same person.

[SpursWoman]

I hope we're ready to give until it hurts to help the survivors. It will take a lot to get Mississippi and Louisiana back on their feet. These folks are our neighbors.


I've got tons of stuff to donate (like children's clothing), but the Red Cross doesn't take that kind of stuff. I was going to try the Salvation Army next....

[ObiwanGinobili]

Those barges and casinos employ a lot of people, although I think it's going to be a really long time before it even matters.


yes they do, they are a really important part of the local economy... but they also have lots of $4 and insurance ..
and you;d think that there 1st words after this would be condolances or offers of help to their employees or the comunity or somehting to that effect.
thats waht I'm saying.

[j-6]

Saw that too... Can you imagine postponing your life for a month?


Where do people go? Shelters? Could you afford to live "on the road" for a month?

By the way, Bayou le Batre, AL of Forrest Gump fame got decimated with virtually all shrimping boats wrecked.

[ObiwanGinobili]

CNN just showed aerial video of Biloxi........it's incredible.... just foundations left.

really it looks like a scale model that someone wiped away

[spurster]

I've got tons of stuff to donate (like children's clothing), but the Red Cross doesn't take that kind of stuff. I was going to try the Salvation Army next....
I'd appreciate an answer to that. My two kids just cleaned out their too small clothes. I have 12 bags of clothes in the van I was going to deliver to Goodwill, but if it can go to Katrina victims, I am for it.

[Ginofan]

Well I just got my first New Orleans evacuee transfer patient...he drove maybe a quarter of the way here before his car broke down and then hitched a ride the rest of way, with nothing but the clothes on his back...sad but interesting stuff. As I talked to him about the whole ordeal he didn't sound too depressed and was very talkative about it. He didn't have any family with him, he just had to worry about getting himself out of the city.

[Spurminator]

Where do people go? Shelters? Could you afford to live "on the road" for a month?

They just discussed it on WWL-TV... FEMA will likely work to set up shelter/housing/accommodations for those who have nowhere else to go.

Hopefully most of them have family close to the area that they can stay with.

[j-6]

I hope we're ready to give until it hurts to help the survivors. It will take a lot to get Mississippi and Louisiana back on their feet. These folks are our neighbors.


You're right. I assume most people that have followed this closely feel the same. But you'd be surprised how many people are ignorant of the severity of this situation. I met with a client an hour ago that when I brought the subject of Katrina up, she said, "That storm in Louisiana?"

By the way, in my neighborhood in Fort Worth, one of my neighbors (well, like down the street) has two cars with Louisiana plates in front of it that got here on Saturday. I wonder if they're refugees.

[SpursWoman]

I'd appreciate an answer to that. My two kids just cleaned out their too small clothes. I have 12 bags of clothes in the van I was going to deliver to Goodwill, but if it can go to Katrina victims, I am for it.



No one seems to be accepting in-kind donations at this time. http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif

[Extra Stout]

No one seems to be accepting in-kind donations at this time. http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif
There will be a time for that. Right now, I think they have to focus on getting those levees stabilized, and on search and rescue for people still trapped out there.

Once that's done, then we can start figuring out how to care for basically the entire population of southern Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama that has been evacuated and won't be able to go back for a long time.

[Shelly]

Did y'all see this on CNN?

http://www.retrospection.net/videofiles/hurricanekat.php

[Spurminator]

Did y'all see this on CNN?

http://www.retrospection.net/videofiles/hurricanekat.php

Fox News one-upped them.

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/08/28.html#a4676

[ObiwanGinobili]

Rescuers are leaving marks on rooftops of houses that contain bodies, becasue they don;t have the means to clear the mout right now.

:depressed

[j-6]

Rescuers are leaving marks on rooftops of houses that contain bodies, becasue they don;t have the means to clear the mout right now.

:depressed


Did you see the red X / black X thing in Mississippi? I'm trying to find a link to it.

[Extra Stout]

Does that Pollyanna Homeland Security dude have any updates on getting the levee breaches fixed?

[j-6]

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

3:07 P.M. - Governor Blanco: We are looking for ways to get people out of the Superdome and out of New Orleans said Governor Blanco as she tried to keep from crying.

[ObiwanGinobili]

2:41 P.M. - Jefferson Parish officials say schools could reopen by Dec. 1.
:wow

[ObiwanGinobili]

Did you see the red X / black X thing in Mississippi? I'm trying to find a link to it.


me too.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Does that Pollyanna Homeland Security dude have any updates on getting the levee breaches fixed?


apparently the Army Corp of Enginners will be dropping a 3k sand bag onto it from a helicopter.

[j-6]

more blog news (I'll stop posting this if everyone's reading along from WWR):

3:13 P.M. - Governor Blanco: A lot of people have lost their lives, but we have no numbers because the priority is saving those who are alive so we don't have more casualties.

3:12 P.M. - Senator Vitter: Mayor Nagin's calm and control and command of the facts showed me that we have one of the best leaders in the country right here.

3:12 P.M. - Senator Landrieu - Scenes are similar to what she saw after the Tsunami.

3:11 P.M. - Senator Landrieu: Those who evacuated should be patient and thank God that they are okay because so many still need to get out.

3:09 P.M. - Senator Landrieu: Plenty of people still on rooftops in N.O. East waiting to be rescued. Every boat available is being used to try to save people.

[Spurminator]

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-family30aug30,0,7422026.story?page=1&coll=la-home-headlines

[j-6]

Y'know, one tiny thing I've gotten to appreciate out of all this is the way Nagin and Blanco handle the press and their business, and to a lesser extent Mary Landrieu. I haven't heard to much from Dave Vitter yet, so I excluded him.

[ObiwanGinobili]

from CNN.com
i was able to find...

In east New Orleans, rescuers pulled out as many as 500 people, in some cases using axes to break through roofs and reach people in attic areas. Not everyone made it out, apparently -- witnesses reported seeing bodies floating near Interstate 10, the north border of the district.

The Federal Emergency Management Agency is preparing to house "at least tens of thousands of victims ... for literally months on end," said the agency's director, Michael Brown.

Lakes and rivers were still spilling over levees late Monday, and "it's going to get worse before it gets better," Brown said
"It's too dangerous to come home," said Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco, who ordered state police to block re-entry routes to all but emergency workers.A Louisiana public health expert described conditions in New Orleans that are probably typical in all the stricken areas:

"No sewage, no drinking water, contamination, threat of rapid increase in mosquitoes, roads are impassible, downed power lines everywhere, trees, debris from houses in the roads, no way to go shopping, no gas," said Ivor van Heerden, director of the Center for the Study of Public Health Impacts of Hurricanes in Baton Rouge.

[SpursWoman]

apparently the Army Corp of Enginners will be dropping a 3k sand bag onto it from a helicopter.


3,000 pounds of sand won't make a dent. 2,500lbs wasn't enought to level out the ground for a stupid 18' pop-up pool in my back yard.


I'll take at least hundreds, if not thousands, of those to do anything useful in that mess. :(

[Spurminator]

I would think it's 3,000 bags.

[ObiwanGinobili]

i'm also having serious doubts about the "giant bag o' sand" idea.

but lets not forget that this idea is put together by the army corp of engineers.

[j-6]

3,000 pounds of sand won't make a dent. 2,500lbs wasn't enought to level out the ground for a stupid 18' pop-up pool in my back yard.


I'll take at least hundreds, if not thousands, of those to do anything useful in that mess. :(


When I heard that plan earlier, I thought they meant they were dropping a large number of 3,000 lb sandbags, not just one.

THey're talking about it on CNN right now.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Jeff Parish councilman Tom Capella says pumps working near Veterans and West Esplanade and water is receeding there

Some good news anyway.


apparently the Army Corp of Enginners will be dropping a 3k sand bag onto it from a helicopter.

Not *a* 3000 lb. sand bag, they are going to be bringing in several to try to block the levee. Until they get the levee stopped, the water will continue rushing into NO until the water level in the city equalizes with Pontchartrain.

Time to say a few prayers on behalf of a successful mission on this one.

[ObiwanGinobili]

ok, now on the Newsconference they are back pedaling and saying the sand bag thing was just and initial idea.....to get things moving.

[boutons]

yep, 200 ft long breach is gonna take a LOT of sandbags, precisely dropped.

why wouldn't they load up a big barge + crane with sandbags and work the breach from the lake side? barges can carry 1000's of tons of cargo.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Well the good news is the water is receding in Slidell. The bad news is its running into New Orleans. :(

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

why wouldn't they load up a big barge + crane with sandbags and work the breach from the lake side? barges can carry 1000's of tons of cargo.

You've got to find working barges and working tugboats to do so. Pretty much anything around on the water is sunk.

[Jelly]

The governor of Louisiana is not very impressive.

[Clandestino]

3,000 pounds of sand won't make a dent. 2,500lbs wasn't enought to level out the ground for a stupid 18' pop-up pool in my back yard.


I'll take at least hundreds, if not thousands, of those to do anything useful in that mess. :(

:lmao

that pool has been the worst thing in your life it seems! :lol

[j-6]

The governor of Louisiana is not very impressive.


We can argue her merits in some other thread, but I think she's doing a very commendable job. She at least understands that lives are more important than property and that they need to start evacuating the remainder of the area as soon as possible.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

http://forms.belointeractive.com/sharedcontent/datafiles/1125380695760_ORIGINAL_100_0861.jpg

[Shelly]

3,000 pounds of sand won't make a dent. 2,500lbs wasn't enought to level out the ground for a stupid 18' pop-up pool in my back yard.


I'll take at least hundreds, if not thousands, of those to do anything useful in that mess. :(

:lol at you and that pool!

[SpursWoman]

:lol at you and that pool!



:oops :lol

[SpursWoman]

I'm almost afraid to look at that picture, I don't think my heart could take seeing *something* floating around that I don't need to see. :depressed

[1369]

yep, 200 ft long breach is gonna take a LOT of sandbags, precisely dropped.

why wouldn't they load up a big barge + crane with sandbags and work the breach from the lake side? barges can carry 1000's of tons of cargo.

What they need to do is find some old barges, rig them up under a helicopter and drop them into the gap.

Or, just drop Rosie O'Donnnel in there.

[Jelly]

We can argue her merits in some other thread, but I think she's doing a very commendable job. She at least understands that lives are more important than property and that they need to start evacuating the remainder of the area as soon as possible.

She needs to come across as a strong leader in this situation. She needs to show strength. (think Winston Churchill) She's showing neither strength nor leadership... just a lot of sighing, shaking her head, and wimpering. That's not very encouraging or comforting to the public. That's my impression of her anyway. She also doesn't seem to have many answers to the reporters questions, and the answers she does have are weak and rambling. Notice how Mary Landreau and others are jumping in to save her. She would have been better off not even going on air.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Thats the same areial view shoot that I posted earlier of my friend Maria's family's neighborhood.
It;s called Chalmette in the 9th ward.

She said her house is actually in that picture, one of the ones on hte left.. .but i don;t know which.

(btw- her fam is fine, they are with her in Houston)

[j-6]

To answer a earlier topic in here from the WWL blog:

3:43 P.M. - Senator Vitter: New Orleans will "absolutely" be rebuilt.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Well, whatever the plan is for the levee, they've got a big hole to fill.

http://www.wwltv.com/sharedcontent/breakingnews/slideshow/083005_dmnkatrina/img/3.jpg

[j-6]

She needs to come across as a strong leader in this situation. She needs to show strength. (think Winston Churchill) She's showing neither strength nor leadership... just a lot of sighing, shaking her head, and wimpering. That's not very encouraging or comforting to the public. That's my impression of her anyway. She also doesn't seem to have many answers to the reporters questions, and the answers she does have are weak and rambling. Notice how Mary Landreau and others are jumping in to save her. She would have been better off not even going on air.

I'd rather have her in charge than that hyper young guy she ran against last year. Bobby Jindal, right?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Heavily flooded east New Orleans.

http://www.wwltv.com/sharedcontent/breakingnews/slideshow/083005_dmnkatrina/img/5.jpg

[Shelly]

Wow. Just Wow.

[j-6]

3:53 P.M. - N.O. Mayor Nagin: Priorities - 1. Rescuing people. 2. Fixing levee breaks. 3. Taking care of refugees in Superdome and hospitals.

[1369]

If anyone wants to do any remodeling, do it soon. I have a hunch that sheet rock and insulation is going to get scarce as soon as they start rebuilding those houses.

I cannot fathom the amount of flooding we are seeing in those pictures. It will take decades for folks to recover from this

[j-6]

I want to stay out of the political things that have to do with this tragedy, but I've had CNN on basically non-stop for days and that was the first Cindy Sheehan commercial I've seen.

I know CNN is around to make $$$, but I wish they would have thought about content during the Katrina crisis.

[1369]

Cindy Sheehan has a commercial? What is it, 30 seconds of her griping about the President? (Not trying to be funny, I just didn't know that)

[Extra Stout]

If anyone wants to do any remodeling, do it soon. I have a hunch that sheet rock and insulation is going to get scarce as soon as they start rebuilding those houses.

I cannot fathom the amount of flooding we are seeing in those pictures. It will take decades for folks to recover from thisI wonder how many of those homes will actually get rebuilt.

[Jelly]

Cindy Sheehan has a commercial? What is it, 30 seconds of her griping about the President?

bingo

[j-6]

Cindy Sheehan has a commercial? What is it, 30 seconds of her griping about the President? (Not trying to be funny, I just didn't know that)

Yes, for the most part. I'm not exactly a Bush fan, but get that partisan shit off the air when there's a national disaster unfolding before our eyes.

More blog news...


3:59 P.M. - WWL-TV reporter Jonathan Betz reports widespread looting and WWL-TV cameras showed people walking out of Canal Street stores with racks of clothes and electronics. Some looters concentrated on basics and supplies, while others made no secret of their desire to get what they could.

Shoot them. Now. Before they start stealing relief supplies and the like.

[1369]

I wonder how many of those homes will actually get rebuilt.

I thought I heard on the radio that FEMA would cover 75% of costs of recovery.

[Jelly]

I want to stay out of the political things that have to do with this tragedy, but I've had CNN on basically non-stop for days and that was the first Cindy Sheehan commercial I've seen.

I know CNN is around to make $$$, but I wish they would have thought about content during the Katrina crisis.

I've seen the Cindy Sheehan commercial on CNN about 20 times. (maybe I'm watching way too much TV these days)

[ObiwanGinobili]

I want to stay out of the political things that have to do with this tragedy, but I've had CNN on basically non-stop for days and that was the first Cindy Sheehan commercial I've seen.

I know CNN is around to make $$$, but I wish they would have thought about content during the Katrina crisis.


thast liek the 4th time I've seen it.
It usually plays during the situation room.

[ObiwanGinobili]

I thought I heard on the radio that FEMA would cover 75% of costs of recovery.


well if it was me , I know i don;t have the other 25% laying around.
especially not after my job most likely got whipped out too.

[j-6]

Any fans of other coverage, like Fox or MSNBC? Or other net feeds?

[Jelly]

Is that a marching band I hear???? anyone watching CNN?

[ObiwanGinobili]

Is that a marching band I hear???? anyone watching CNN?


yeah i heard that too... I was thinking "those kids could be clearing debris right now.. we don;t need a live band.. if you want music justpump hte volume o none of those FEMA trucks"


Any fans of other coverage, like Fox or MSNBC? Or other net feeds?

ehhh. it;s hit and miss.... MSNBC had some good stuff around 2pm...
and then FOX seemed to be gettign the best stuff a bit after that.
but the Wolf came on and smoked thier butts.

i don;t normally watch FOX at all and I catch MSNBC only occasionaly.

[Jelly]

yeah i heard that too... I was thinking "those kids could be clearing debris right now.. we don;t need a live band.. if you want music justpump hte volume o none of those FEMA trucks"


.

:lmao
yeah, apparantly a high school marching band assembled...I guess to lighten the mood. oh well, I guess their heart was in the right place

[j-6]

Blog update:

4:21 P.M. - WWL-TV Reporter quotes officials as saying there may now be 60,000 people in the Superdome and that more people are still being urged to go there.

[MannyIsGod]

Dude, they have to do something to stay sane.

[j-6]

Oh shit.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/30/katrina/index.html

BREAKING NEWS
Rising waters force evacuation of tens of thousands who sought refuge in New Orleans rescue centers, state governor says. More soon.

[MannyIsGod]

This is a result of 2 MAJOR BREACHES OF THE LEVEE. The first one ,is about 400 feet long, and appears to have given
way around 9PM last night. The Corp of Engineers have now said there is also a second breach as well. Within the hour
the Pentagon will be taking over the coordination and manpower / machinery to assist in closing the 2 breaches.

The COE indicates there is no other way to resolve the problem, and they will be using huge cranes, barges of sand and intend
to 'plug' the breached area. Until that is accomplished, News Orleans will continue to fill up with water
No time table is known on how long it will take. The COE indicated they have 'great concern' for the a specific
pumping station - the largest in the world -- and it will be eventually used to drain the water out of the
city after the levee has been repaired.

This is turning into a 'slow motion version' of the worst case scenario for New Orleans.
Over 1,200 people have been rescued by 40 coast guard recovery helicopters where people are standing on
roofs - since yesterday. Untold numbers of dead - likely in the hundreds and possibly near 1,000 or more
Disease is expected to take a heavy toll within days. This could claim thousands of lives. The key seemingly
is to somehow to evacuate everyone from the city. Whether this can be done I have no clue.

Thats from Steve Gregory's last email.

[1369]

Breaking news on Cnn.com is that they are having to evacuate over 10K from shelters due to the rising waters.

I wonder if there is a military installation somewhere near where they can set up a "tent city" for these people until things get back to some semblence of "normal".

[MannyIsGod]

I just saw the video of the man who lost his wife on CNN. That hurts man, that really hurts.

[ObiwanGinobili]

oh my.. did ya'll just see that story about the man who lost his wife?
I'm so emotional........ :cry

[Ginofan]

The whole toxic soup/cesspool scenario is looking more and more real, even though N.O. didn't take the direct, horrific stuff. I haven't been able to keep up today with what's going on...are they still having problems getting out to rescue people? The longer that takes to rescue the people on their roofs and in their attics, the more people you have dying from disease and maybe even starvation(?) And now the shelters are endangered...it just keeps getting worse and worse.

[SpursWoman]

This is turning into a 'slow motion version' of the worst case scenario for New Orleans.


Sounds familiar. Slower, but just as devastating. :(

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Yep, this is what I said last night. New Orleans is slowly drowning

[Jelly]

wow. anyone see all those prisoners assembled on the overpass?

[j-6]

The whole toxic soup/cesspool scenario is looking more and more real, even though N.O. didn't take the direct, horrific stuff. I haven't been able to keep up today with what's going on...are they still having problems getting out to rescue people? The longer that takes to rescue the people on their roofs and in their attics, the more people you have dying from disease and maybe even starvation(?) And now the shelters are endangered...it just keeps getting worse and worse.


I think they need to drop all this levee shit and completely concentrate on getting the folks out of the city, period. 80% is underwater and it's still filling up...it's not like they're going to be able to do anything as far as getting the water out immediately, if at all.

Really, at this point what's another 15 feet of water if you get the city completely evacuated? Everything (for the most part) is ruined or damaged.