Official Hurricane Katrina Thread

[whottt]

From MSNBC, interviewing a black woman from New Orleans...

She said she always thought white people were to blame for a lot of things,

Yeah...because all whites are racist... :bang


but since she's been in Houston, so many white people have been truly trying to help her out and have been so compassionate.


She's really going to shit when she finds out that the state that's bailing her state out is Bush's home state, the biggest reddest state in the Union... full of all those racist Republicans, with Republican racist leadership....







Someone get Jesse J. and Kanye on the line, she's not towing the party line.


Right...Rev Jesse's biggest fear is that his blacks will stop embracing victimhood...and the day the Democrats can no longer empower their victimization and play the race guard... to get the minority vote, they are truly fucked. Victimhood is all they got going for them these days....Just like all those ignorant Iraqi "savages" that can't be civilized...according to the anti-war movement. Hence the mass desire to lay this at the feet of the fed.

[whottt]

I've heard about that order with Blanco, and someone should have been on the phone explaining it to her. I've heard it explained as a clerical error.


Amazing...I made a post about it the first or second day after the Hurricane...and it was military official that was bitching about it...


Whottt, they had no plan.

NO PLAN.

No...what they lacked was ESP...to know the situation in the city with absolutely no city or state control within the city...and their leaders sitting on their asses in Baton Rouge not willing to cede authority.


You want the US government to pile 5000 helicopters and 40 thousand troops into the city without having a fucking clue who goes where, where the police where, what the Lousiana Guardsmen were doing...where people where people were firing on rescuing...

I can just see you roaring with approval if Bush sent the Guard into the Special Event Center to take the shooters out(something he lacks the authority to do)...and 200 or 300 civillians get killed in the crossfire.

The Govt didn't know shit about this situation until Honore got there and drove down each and every street ascertaining the situation...with no help from the Govenor or Mayor or the freaking police force...

[MannyIsGod]

Whottt, they had NO plan. Can you understand they had no plan? FEMA had NO PLAN.

Whottt, the didn't have a plan.

Hey Whottt, did you notice Chertof saying they didn't have a plan?

Yo, Whottt, those damn cracka's didn't have a plan.


RETARD, THEY DIDN'T HAVE A PLAN

[whottt]

What were the plans of the City and State Government? Sit on their ass and let the Fed Handle it?

Thank god we don't have fucking Blanco as our Govenor or there would 90,000 sitting in front of the Astrodome clueless looking for water and food....

I mean shit...she didn't think about it before the hurricane...why would she think about it after. Amazingly...Perry can wipe his ass without W's help.

[spurster]

You go out and live in your own waste for a few days with little food and water and be told constantly that help is on way. You might be little angry, too. Most posters in here seem a little bitchy without having that experience on top of it.

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

Whottt,

They
Had
No
Plan

And now, I'm out. I want to do something constructive about the situation today other than bitch about plans with whottt.

[Kori Ellis]

What were the plans of the City and State Government? Sit on their ass and let the Fed Handle it?

Thank god we don't have fucking Blanco as our Govenor or there would 90,000 sitting in front of the Astrodome clueless looking for water and food....

I mean shit...she didn't think about it before the hurricane...why would she think about it after.

Why are you giving Chertoff a pass for his statements? You always avoid it.

[whottt]

I think the Fed fucked up. I've said so...I just don't think it's all on them. It's not all on them. And I think they fucked up less than anyone.
They are the only ones that didn't collapse.

[Kori Ellis]

I think the Fed fucked up. I've said so...I just don't think it's all on them. It's not all on them. And I think they fucked up less than anyone.
They are the only ones that didn't collapse.

Of course it's not all of them. I don't think anyone says it's all of them. You are posting like an extremist.

There's been screw ups on every level - local, state, federal and some citizens. But when Chertoff comes out and says (lies?) flatout that they had no idea the results could be anything like this -- that's a big problem.

[whottt]

I just know...next Presidential election...I want a leader who breaks down into profanity laced tirades and starts crying a little bitch in the face of disaster...nothing says leadership like that. It's always good to have someone that loses it running the fucking country....or your state and city.

[whottt]

Of course it's not all of them. I don't think anyone says it's all of them. You are posting like an extremist.

There's been screw ups on every level - local, state, federal and some citizens. But when Chertoff comes out and says (lies?) flatout that they had no idea the results could be anything like this -- that's a big problem.


No...the big problem is everyone pulling the fucking race and poor card and laying it on the fed. That is what's happening.....and that's partisan bullshit. I have seen people saying the cause of this is racism and using the freaking AP caption as proof...

[Shelly]

September 4, 2005
Do You Know What It Means to Lose New Orleans?
By ANNE RICE

La Jolla, Calif.

WHAT do people really know about New Orleans?

Do they take away with them an awareness that it has always been not only a great white metropolis but also a great black city, a city where African-Americans have come together again and again to form the strongest African-American culture in the land?

The first literary magazine ever published in Louisiana was the work of black men, French-speaking poets and writers who brought together their work in three issues of a little book called L'Album Littéraire. That was in the 1840's, and by that time the city had a prosperous class of free black artisans, sculptors, businessmen, property owners, skilled laborers in all fields. Thousands of slaves lived on their own in the city, too, making a living at various jobs, and sending home a few dollars to their owners in the country at the end of the month.

This is not to diminish the horror of the slave market in the middle of the famous St. Louis Hotel, or the injustice of the slave labor on plantations from one end of the state to the other. It is merely to say that it was never all "have or have not" in this strange and beautiful city.

Later in the 19th century, as the Irish immigrants poured in by the thousands, filling the holds of ships that had emptied their cargoes of cotton in Liverpool, and as the German and Italian immigrants soon followed, a vital and complex culture emerged. Huge churches went up to serve the great faith of the city's European-born Catholics; convents and schools and orphanages were built for the newly arrived and the struggling; the city expanded in all directions with new neighborhoods of large, graceful houses, or areas of more humble cottages, even the smallest of which, with their floor-length shutters and deep-pitched roofs, possessed an undeniable Caribbean charm.

Through this all, black culture never declined in Louisiana. In fact, New Orleans became home to blacks in a way, perhaps, that few other American cities have ever been. Dillard University and Xavier University became two of the most outstanding black colleges in America; and once the battles of desegregation had been won, black New Orleanians entered all levels of life, building a visible middle class that is absent in far too many Western and Northern American cities to this day.

The influence of blacks on the music of the city and the nation is too immense and too well known to be described. It was black musicians coming down to New Orleans for work who nicknamed the city "the Big Easy" because it was a place where they could always find a job. But it's not fair to the nature of New Orleans to think of jazz and the blues as the poor man's music, or the music of the oppressed.

Something else was going on in New Orleans. The living was good there. The clock ticked more slowly; people laughed more easily; people kissed; people loved; there was joy.

Which is why so many New Orleanians, black and white, never went north. They didn't want to leave a place where they felt at home in neighborhoods that dated back centuries; they didn't want to leave families whose rounds of weddings, births and funerals had become the fabric of their lives. They didn't want to leave a city where tolerance had always been able to outweigh prejudice, where patience had always been able to outweigh rage. They didn't want to leave a place that was theirs.

And so New Orleans prospered, slowly, unevenly, but surely - home to Protestants and Catholics, including the Irish parading through the old neighborhood on St. Patrick's Day as they hand out cabbages and potatoes and onions to the eager crowds; including the Italians, with their lavish St. Joseph's altars spread out with cakes and cookies in homes and restaurants and churches every March; including the uptown traditionalists who seek to preserve the peace and beauty of the Garden District; including the Germans with their clubs and traditions; including the black population playing an ever increasing role in the city's civic affairs.

Now nature has done what the Civil War couldn't do. Nature has done what the labor riots of the 1920's couldn't do. Nature had done what "modern life" with its relentless pursuit of efficiency couldn't do. It has done what racism couldn't do, and what segregation couldn't do either. Nature has laid the city waste - with a scope that brings to mind the end of Pompeii.
•

I share this history for a reason - and to answer questions that have arisen these last few days. Almost as soon as the cameras began panning over the rooftops, and the helicopters began chopping free those trapped in their attics, a chorus of voices rose. "Why didn't they leave?" people asked both on and off camera. "Why did they stay there when they knew a storm was coming?" One reporter even asked me, "Why do people live in such a place?"

Then as conditions became unbearable, the looters took to the streets. Windows were smashed, jewelry snatched, stores broken open, water and food and televisions carried out by fierce and uninhibited crowds.

Now the voices grew even louder. How could these thieves loot and pillage in a time of such crisis? How could people shoot one another? Because the faces of those drowning and the faces of those looting were largely black faces, race came into the picture. What kind of people are these, the people of New Orleans, who stay in a city about to be flooded, and then turn on one another?

Well, here's an answer. Thousands didn't leave New Orleans because they couldn't leave. They didn't have the money. They didn't have the vehicles. They didn't have any place to go. They are the poor, black and white, who dwell in any city in great numbers; and they did what they felt they could do - they huddled together in the strongest houses they could find. There was no way to up and leave and check into the nearest Ramada Inn.

What's more, thousands more who could have left stayed behind to help others. They went out in the helicopters and pulled the survivors off rooftops; they went through the flooded streets in their boats trying to gather those they could find. Meanwhile, city officials tried desperately to alleviate the worsening conditions in the Superdome, while makeshift shelters and hotels and hospitals struggled.

And where was everyone else during all this? Oh, help is coming, New Orleans was told. We are a rich country. Congress is acting. Someone will come to stop the looting and care for the refugees.

And it's true: eventually, help did come. But how many times did Gov. Kathleen Blanco have to say that the situation was desperate? How many times did Mayor Ray Nagin have to call for aid? Why did America ask a city cherished by millions and excoriated by some, but ignored by no one, to fight for its own life for so long? That's my question.

I know that New Orleans will win its fight in the end. I was born in the city and lived there for many years. It shaped who and what I am. Never have I experienced a place where people knew more about love, about family, about loyalty and about getting along than the people of New Orleans. It is perhaps their very gentleness that gives them their endurance.

They will rebuild as they have after storms of the past; and they will stay in New Orleans because it is where they have always lived, where their mothers and their fathers lived, where their churches were built by their ancestors, where their family graves carry names that go back 200 years. They will stay in New Orleans where they can enjoy a sweetness of family life that other communities lost long ago.

But to my country I want to say this: During this crisis you failed us. You looked down on us; you dismissed our victims; you dismissed us. You want our Jazz Fest, you want our Mardi Gras, you want our cooking and our music. Then when you saw us in real trouble, when you saw a tiny minority preying on the weak among us, you called us "Sin City," and turned your backs.

Well, we are a lot more than all that. And though we may seem the most exotic, the most atmospheric and, at times, the most downtrodden part of this land, we are still part of it. We are Americans. We are you.

Anne Rice is the author of the forthcoming novel "Christ the Lord: Out of Egypt."

[Kori Ellis]

No...the big problem is everyone pulling the fucking race and poor card and laying it on the fed. That is what's happening.....and that's partisan bullshit. I have seen people saying the cause of this is racism and using the freaking AP caption as proof...

So you have more of a problem with people the race card than you have with Chertoff's statements?

You are an idiot.

[Kori Ellis]

I'm confused by this ...


Five dead were army workers: report

05sep05

Associated Press reports that at least five people shot dead by police as they walked across a New Orleans bridge yesterday were contractors working for the US Defence department.

A spokesman for the Army Corps of Engineers said the victims were contractors on their way to repair a canal. The contractors were on their way across the bridge to launch barges into Lake Pontchartrain, in an operation to fix the 17th Street Canal, according to the spokesman.

The shootings took place on the Danziger Bridge, across a canal connecting Lake Pontchartrain to the Mississippi River.

Early on Sunday, Deputy Police Chief W.J. Riley of New Orleans said police shot at eight people, killing five or six.

No other details were immediately available.

I thought that the five people that were killed at Danziger Bridge were "suspected looters".

[timvp]

I thought that the five people that were killed at Danziger Bridge were "suspected looters".

That's what happens when you hire black contractors.

[SpursWoman]

I'm confused by this ...



I thought that the five people that were killed at Danziger Bridge were "suspected looters".


Wow....the story I heard from the Police commander or whoever that guy was wasn't even close to that...

:wtf

[Kori Ellis]

Wow....the story I heard from the Police commander or whoever that guy was wasn't even close to that...

:wtf

I know. I heard that too. I thought they were "suspected looters" who were firing upon the contractors.

This is saying that the ones that were killed were the contractors themselves.

This is very weird.

[timvp]

I don't even read Whottt's post in this thread. Whottt's style of arguing is to pick a side and then stick with it come hell, high water or a Cat 5 hurricane.

He backed the current administration so there is no way he will say anything negative about anyone on the federal level. That's how Whottt operates.

Just like Brent Barry. Barry could throw up a billion and Whottt would be right there holding his hand talking about great he is.

:smokin

[Jelly]

Regarding the shooting incident. The police were escorted a group of ACoE to work on levees. The ACoE was fired on by an armed gang. The police fired on the gang. Five were shot. Two are dead. Good for the police.

(Now, some of you can start your sympathy party for these armed thugs. )

[timvp]

Regarding the shooting incident. The police were escorted a group of ACoE to work on levees. The ACoE was fired on by an armed gang. The police fired on the gang. Five were shot. Two are dead. Good for the police.


That's what I thought, too.

But read what Kori posted. I'm hoping that article is wrong.

[Vashner]

The first news report was contractors killed. .it was in error and retracted later.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

(Now, some of you can start your sympathy party for these armed thugs. )

You're dead set on wrestling that Drama Queen title from T Park, aren't you?

[timvp]

The first news report was contractors killed. .it was in error and retracted later.

Alright, good. Though someone should tell the media, since there are still sites running with the story.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

But when Chertoff comes out and says (lies?) flatout that they had no idea the results could be anything like this -- that's a big problem.

Actually I think he's telling the truth. I don't think FEMA foresaw the levees holding in the face of such a massive storm and then breaking after the fact.

I think they foresaw a massive storm flat out drowning everyone in NO in one fell swoop.

Remember, they were expecting 20,000 stuck around, now it's 120,000. That changes your gameplan a little.

[timvp]

Actually I think he's telling the truth. I don't think FEMA foresaw the levees holding in the face of such a massive storm and then breaking after the fact.

:rolleyes

They knew the levees would break if a Cat 4+ storm hit. They got lucky that it didn't break right away.

Yet the response was still slow.


I think they foresaw a massive storm flat out drowning everyone in NO in one fell swoop.

So their game plan was that everyone was going to die so there wouldn't be any need for rescuing?

Superb.


Remember, they were expecting 20,000 stuck around, now it's 120,000. That changes your gameplan a little.

BS.

Read early on in this thread. Never did anyone think 20K stayed. Everyone in here and everyone in the media KNEW it was somewhere around 200K. If it's only 120K, then that's less than everyone expected.

[Vashner]

General Honare "That's B.S."..

He said "It's the hurricane that did this not the government".. "you can't vote out the water.. the water is there"...
http://www.cnn.com/video/

Click on video "General Calls Bull Shit"...

[MannyIsGod]

AHF, if FEMA didn't know the levees would break it is only due to severe incompetence. It has been known for DECADES what would happen in a situation like this.

[Jelly]

General Honare "That's B.S."..

He said "It's the hurricane that did this not the government".. "you can't vote out the water.. the water is there"...
http://www.cnn.com/video/

Click on video "General Calls Bull Shit"...

that general is pretty intimidating. It looked like after he jumped all over the one guy, the rest of the reporters were too afraid to ask him anything else. :lol

[Shelly]

This was written in October 2004 and is from National Geographic

http://www.snopes.com/politics/katrina/foretold.asp

y Joel K. Bourne, Jr.
Photographs by Robert Caputo and Tyrone Turner



The Louisiana bayou, hardest working marsh in America, is in big trouble—with dire consequences for residents, the nearby city of New Orleans, and seafood lovers everywhere.



It was a broiling August afternoon in New Orleans, Louisiana, the Big Easy, the City That Care Forgot. Those who ventured outside moved as if they were swimming in tupelo honey. Those inside paid silent homage to the man who invented air-conditioning as they watched TV "storm teams" warn of a hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico. Nothing surprising there: Hurricanes in August are as much a part of life in this town as hangovers on Ash Wednesday.

But the next day the storm gathered steam and drew a bead on the city. As the whirling maelstrom approached the coast, more than a million people evacuated to higher ground. Some 200,000 remained, however—the car-less, the homeless, the aged and infirm, and those die-hard New Orleanians who look for any excuse to throw a party.

The storm hit Breton Sound with the fury of a nuclear warhead, pushing a deadly storm surge into Lake Pontchartrain. The water crept to the top of the massive berm that holds back the lake and then spilled over. Nearly 80 percent of New Orleans lies below sea level—more than eight feet below in places—so the water poured in. A liquid brown wall washed over the brick ranch homes of Gentilly, over the clapboard houses of the Ninth Ward, over the white-columned porches of the Garden District, until it raced through the bars and strip joints on Bourbon Street like the pale rider of the Apocalypse. As it reached 25 feet (eight meters) over parts of the city, people climbed onto roofs to escape it.

Thousands drowned in the murky brew that was soon contaminated by sewage and industrial waste. Thousands more who survived the flood later perished from dehydration and disease as they waited to be rescued. It took two months to pump the city dry, and by then the Big Easy was buried under a blanket of putrid sediment, a million people were homeless, and 50,000 were dead. It was the worst natural disaster in the history of the United States.

When did this calamity happen? It hasn't—yet. But the doomsday scenario is not far-fetched. The Federal Emergency Management Agency lists a hurricane strike on New Orleans as one of the most dire threats to the nation, up there with a large earthquake in California or a terrorist attack on New York City. Even the Red Cross no longer opens hurricane shelters in the city, claiming the risk to its workers is too great.

"The killer for Louisiana is a Category Three storm at 72 hours before landfall that becomes a Category Four at 48 hours and a Category Five at 24 hours—coming from the worst direction," says Joe Suhayda, a retired coastal engineer at Louisiana State University who has spent 30 years studying the coast. Suhayda is sitting in a lakefront restaurant on an actual August afternoon sipping lemonade and talking about the chinks in the city's hurricane armor. "I don't think people realize how precarious we are,"
Suhayda says, watching sailboats glide by. "Our technology is great when it works. But when it fails, it's going to make things much worse."

The chances of such a storm hitting New Orleans in any given year are slight, but the danger is growing. Climatologists predict that powerful storms may occur more frequently this century, while rising sea level from global warming is putting low-lying coasts at greater risk. "It's not if it will happen," says University of New Orleans geologist Shea Penland. "It's when."

Yet just as the risks of a killer storm are rising, the city's natural defenses are quietly melting away. From the Mississippi border to the Texas state line, Louisiana is losing its protective fringe of marshes and barrier islands faster than any place in the U.S. Since the 1930s some 1,900 square miles (4,900 square kilometers) of coastal wetlands—a swath nearly the size of Delaware or almost twice that of Luxembourg—have vanished beneath the Gulf of Mexico. Despite nearly half a billion dollars spent over the past decade to stem the tide, the state continues to lose about 25 square miles (65 square kilometers) of land each year, roughly one acre every 33 minutes.

A cocktail of natural and human factors is putting the coast under. Delta soils naturally compact and sink over time, eventually giving way to open water unless fresh layers of sediment offset the subsidence. The Mississippi's spring floods once maintained that balance, but the annual deluges were often disastrous. After a devastating flood in 1927, levees were raised along the river and lined with concrete, effectively funneling the marsh-building sediments to the deep waters of the Gulf. Since the 1950s engineers have also cut more than 8,000 miles (13,000 kilometers) of canals through the marsh for petroleum exploration and ship traffic. These new ditches sliced the wetlands into a giant jigsaw puzzle, increasing erosion and allowing lethal doses of salt water to infiltrate brackish and freshwater marshes.

While such loss hits every bayou-loving Louisianan right in the heart, it also hits nearly every U.S. citizen right in the wallet. Louisiana has the hardest working wetlands in America, a watery world of bayous, marshes, and barrier islands that either produces or transports more than a third of the nation's oil and a quarter of its natural gas, and ranks second only to Alaska in commercial fish landings. As wildlife habitat, it makes Florida's Everglades look like a petting zoo by comparison.

Such high stakes compelled a host of unlikely bedfellows—scientists, environmental groups, business leaders, and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers—to forge a radical plan to protect what's left. Drafted by the Corps a year ago, the Louisiana Coastal Area (LCA) project was initially estimated to cost up to 14 billion dollars over 30 years, almost twice as much as current efforts to save the Everglades. But the Bush Administration balked at the price tag, supporting instead a plan to spend up to two billion dollars over the next ten years to fund the most promising projects. Either way, Congress must authorize the money before work can begin.

To glimpse the urgency of the problem afflicting Louisiana, one need only drive 40 minutes southeast of New Orleans to the tiny bayou village of Shell Beach. Here, for the past 70 years or so, a big, deeply tanned man with hands the size of baseball gloves has been catching fish, shooting ducks, and selling gas and bait to anyone who can find his end-of-the-road marina. Today Frank "Blackie" Campo's ramshackle place hangs off the end of new Shell Beach. The old Shell Beach, where Campo was born in 1918, sits a quarter mile away, five feet beneath the rippling waves. Once home to some 50 families and a naval air station during World War II, the little village is now "ga'an pecan," as Campo says in the local patois. Gone forever.

Life in old Shell Beach had always been a tenuous existence. Hurricanes twice razed the community, sending houses floating through the marsh. But it wasn't until the Corps of Engineers dredged a 500-foot-wide (150-meter-wide) ship channel nearby in 1968 that its fate was sealed. The Mississippi River-Gulf Outlet, known as "Mr. Go," was supposed to provide a shortcut for freighters bound for New Orleans, but it never caught on. Maybe two ships use the channel on a given day, but wakes from even those few vessels have carved the shoreline a half mile wide in places, consuming old Shell Beach.

Campo settles into a worn recliner, his pale blue eyes the color of a late autumn sky. Our conversation turns from Mr. Go to the bigger issue affecting the entire coast. "What really screwed up the marsh is when they put the levees on the river," Campo says, over the noise of a groaning air-conditioner. "They should take the levees out and let the water run; that's what built the land. But we know they not going to let the river run again, so there's no solution."

Denise Reed, however, proposes doing just that—letting the river run. A coastal geomorphologist at the University of New Orleans, Reed is convinced that breaching the levees with a series of gated spillways would pump new life into the dying marshes. Only three such diversions currently operate in the state. I catch up with Reed at the most controversial of the lot—a 26-million-dollar culvert just south of New Orleans named Caernarvon.

"Caernarvon is a prototype, a demonstration of a technique," says Reed as we motor down a muddy canal in a state boat. The diversion isn't filling the marsh with sediments on a grand scale, she says. But the effect of the added river water—loaded as it is with fertilizer from farm runoff—is plain to see. "It turns wetlands hanging on by the fingernails into something quite lush," says Reed.

To prove her point, she points to banks crowded with slender willows, rafts of lily pads, and a wide shallow pond that is no longer land, no longer liquid. More like chocolate pudding. But impressive as the recovering marsh is, its scale seems dwarfed by the size of the problem. "Restoration is not trying to make the coast look like a map of 1956," explains Reed. "That's not even possible. The goal is to restore healthy natural processes, then live with what you get."

Even that will be hard to do. Caernarvon, for instance, became a political land mine when releases of fresh water timed to mimic spring floods wiped out the beds of nearby oyster farmers. The oystermen sued, and last year a sympathetic judge awarded them a staggering 1.3 billion dollars. The case threw a major speed bump into restoration efforts.

Other restoration methods—such as rebuilding marshes with dredge spoil and salt-tolerant plants or trying to stabilize a shoreline that's eroding 30 feet (10 meters) a year—have had limited success. Despite the challenges, the thought of doing nothing is hard for most southern Louisianans to swallow. Computer models that project land loss for the next 50 years show the coast and interior marsh dissolving as if splattered with acid, leaving only skeletal remnants. Outlying towns such as Shell Beach, Venice, Grand Isle, and Cocodrie vanish under a sea of blue pixels.

Those who believe diversions are the key to saving Louisiana's coast often point to the granddaddy of them all: the Atchafalaya River. The major distributary of the Mississippi River, the Atchafalaya, if left alone, would soon be the Mississippi River, capturing most of its flow. But to prevent salt water from creeping farther up the Mississippi and spoiling the water supply of nearby towns and industries, the Corps of Engineers allows only a third of the Mississippi's water to flow down the Atchafalaya. Still, that water and sediment have produced the healthiest wetlands in Louisiana. The Atchafalaya Delta is one of the few places in the state that's actually gaining ground instead of losing it. And if you want to see the delta, you need to go crabbing with Peanut Michel.

"Peanut," it turns out, is a bit of a misnomer. At six foot six and 340 pounds, the 35-year-old commercial fisherman from Morgan City wouldn't look out of place on the offensive line of the New Orleans Saints. We launch his aluminum skiff in the predawn light, and soon we're skimming down the broad, café au lait river toward the newest land in Louisiana. Dense thickets of needlegrass, flag grass, cut grass, and a big-leafed plant Michel calls elephant ear crowd the banks, followed closely by bushy wax myrtles and shaggy willows.

Michel finds his string of crab pots a few miles out in the broad expanse of Atchafalaya Bay. Even this far from shore the water is barely five feet deep. As the sun ignites into a blowtorch on the horizon, Michel begins a well-oiled ritual: grab the bullet-shaped float, shake the wire cube of its clicking, mottled green inhabitants, bait it with a fish carcass, and toss. It's done in fluid motions as the boat circles lazily in the water.

But it's a bad day for crabbing. The wind and water are hot, and only a few crabs dribble in. And yet Michel is happy. Deliriously happy. Because this is what he wants to do. "They call 'em watermen up in Maryland," he says with a slight Cajun accent. "They call us lunatics here. You got to be crazy to be in this business."

Despite Michel's poor haul, Louisiana's wetlands are still a prolific seafood factory, sustaining a commercial fishery that most years lands more than 300 million dollars' worth of finfish, shrimp, oysters, crabs, and other delicacies. How long the stressed marshes can maintain that production is anybody's guess. In the meantime, Michel keeps at it. "My grandfather always told me, Don't live to be rich, live to be happy," he says. And so he does.

After a few hours Michel calls it a day, and we head through the braided delta, where navigation markers that once stood at the edge of the boat channel now peek out of the brush 20 feet (six meters) from shore. At every turn we flush mottled ducks, ibis, and great blue herons. Michel, who works as a hunting guide during duck season, cracks an enormous grin at the sight. "When the ducks come down in the winter," he says, "they'll cover the sun."

To folks like Peanut Michel, the birds, the fish, and the rich coastal culture are reason enough to save Louisiana's shore, whatever the cost. But there is another reason, one readily grasped by every American whose way of life is tethered not to a dock, but to a gas pump: These wetlands protect one of the most extensive petroleum infrastructures in the nation.

The state's first oil well was punched in south Louisiana in 1901, and the world's first offshore rig went into operation in the Gulf of Mexico in 1947. During the boom years in the early 1970s, fully half of the state's budget was derived from petroleum revenues. Though much of the production has moved into deeper waters, oil and gas wells remain a fixture of the coast, as ubiquitous as shrimp boats and brown pelicans.

The deep offshore wells now account for nearly a third of all domestic oil production, while Louisiana's Offshore Oil Port, a series of platforms anchored 18 miles (29 kilometers) offshore, unloads a nonstop line of supertankers that deliver up to 15 percent of the nation's foreign oil. Most of that black gold comes ashore via a maze of pipelines buried in the Louisiana muck. Numerous refineries, the nation's largest natural gas pipeline hub, even the Strategic Petroleum Reserve are all protected from hurricanes and storm surge by Louisiana's vanishing marsh.

You can smell the petrodollars burning at Port Fourchon, the offshore oil industry's sprawling home port on the central Louisiana coast. Brawny helicopters shuttle 6,000 workers to the rigs from here each week, while hundreds of supply boats deliver everything from toilet paper to drinking water to drilling lube. A thousand trucks a day keep the port humming around the clock, yet Louisiana 1, the two-lane highway that connects it to the world, seems to flood every other high tide. During storms the port becomes an island, which is why port officials like Davie Breaux are clamoring for the state to build a 17-mile-long (27-kilometer-long) elevated highway to the port. It's also why Breaux thinks spending 14 billion dollars to save the coast would be a bargain.

"We'll go to war and spend billions of dollars to protect oil and gas interests overseas,"
Breaux says as he drives his truck past platform anchors the size of two-story houses. "But here at home?" He shrugs. "Where else you gonna drill? Not California. Not Florida. Not in ANWR. In Louisiana. I'm third generation in the oil field. We're not afraid of the industry. We just want the infrastructure to handle it."

The oil industry has been good to Louisiana, providing low taxes and high-paying jobs. But such largesse hasn't come without a cost, largely exacted from coastal wetlands. The most startling impact has only recently come to light—the effect of oil and gas withdrawal on subsidence rates. For decades geologists believed that the petroleum deposits were too deep and the geology of the coast too complex for drilling to have any impact on the surface. But two years ago former petroleum geologist Bob
Morton, now with the U.S. Geological Survey, noticed that the highest rates of wetland loss occurred during or just after the period of peak oil and gas production in the 1970s and early 1980s. After much study, Morton concluded that the removal of millions of barrels of oil, trillions of cubic feet of natural gas, and tens of millions of barrels of saline formation water lying with the petroleum deposits caused a drop in subsurface pressure—a theory known as regional depressurization. That led nearby underground faults to slip and the land above them to slump.

"When you stick a straw in a soda and suck on it, everything goes down," Morton explains. "That's very simplified, but you get the idea." The phenomenon isn't new: It was first documented in Texas in 1926 and has been reported in other oil-producing areas such as the North Sea and Lake Maracaibo in Venezuela. Morton won't speculate on what percentage of wetland loss can be pinned on the oil industry. "What I can tell you is that much of the loss between Bayou Lafourche and Bayou Terrebonne was caused by induced subsidence from oil and gas withdrawal. The wetlands are still there, they're just underwater." The area Morton refers to, part of the Barataria-Terrebonne estuary, has one of the highest rates of wetland loss in the state.

The oil industry and its consultants dispute Morton's theory, but they've been unable to disprove it. The implication for restoration is profound. If production continues to taper off in coastal wetlands, Morton expects subsidence to return to its natural geologic rate, making restoration feasible in places. Currently, however, the high price of natural gas has oil companies swarming over the marshes looking for deep gas reservoirs. If such fields are tapped, Morton expects regional depressurization to continue. The upshot for the coast, he explains, is that the state will have to focus whatever restoration dollars it can muster on areas that can be saved, not waste them on places that are going to sink no matter what.

A few days after talking with Morton, I'm sitting on the levee in the French Quarter, enjoying the deep-fried powdery sweetness of a beignet from the Café du Monde. Joggers lumber by in the torpid heat, while tugs wrestle their barges up and down the big brown river. For all its enticing quirkiness, for all its licentious pleasures, for all its geologic challenges, New Orleans has been luckier than the wetlands that lined its pockets and stocked its renowned tables. The question is how long Lady Luck will shine. It brings back something Joe Suhayda, the LSU engineer, had said during our lunch by Lake Pontchartrain.

"When you look at the broadest perspective, short-term advantages can be gained by exploiting the environment. But in the long term you're going to pay for it. Just like you can spend three days drinking in New Orleans and it'll be fun. But sooner or later you're going to pay."

I finish my beignet and stroll down the levee, succumbing to the hazy, lazy feel of the city that care forgot, but that nature will not.

[MannyIsGod]

And anotehr article just like the one Shelly just posted, only this one was written in October of....2001.

Two thousand and mother fucking one.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&articleID=00060286-CB58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000



Drowning New Orleans
A major hurricane could swamp New Orleans under 20 feet of water, killing thousands. Human activities along the Mississippi River have dramatically increased the risk, and now only massive reengineering of southeastern Louisiana can save the city
By Mark Fischetti
1 2 3 4 5 6 next »
Image no longer available. The full versions of this and other articles from the print edition--including all graphics and sidebars--are available for purchase at Scientific American Digital.


* Infographic: Sinking out of Sight
* Infographic: Sinking out of Sight (page 2)
* Infographic: A Worst-Case Scenario

The boxes are stacked eight feet high and line the walls of the large, windowless room. Inside them are new body bags, 10,000 in all. If a big, slow-moving hurricane crossed the Gulf of Mexico on the right track, it would drive a sea surge that would drown New Orleans under 20 feet of water. "As the water recedes," says Walter Maestri, a local emergency management director, "we expect to find a lot of dead bodies."

New Orleans is a disaster waiting to happen. The city lies below sea level, in a bowl bordered by levees that fend off Lake Pontchartrain to the north and the Mississippi River to the south and west. And because of a damning confluence of factors, the city is sinking further, putting it at increasing flood risk after even minor storms. The low-lying Mississippi Delta, which buffers the city from the gulf, is also rapidly disappearing. A year from now another 25 to 30 square miles of delta marsh--an area the size of Manhattan--will have vanished. An acre disappears every 24 minutes. Each loss gives a storm surge a clearer path to wash over the delta and pour into the bowl, trapping one million people inside and another million in surrounding communities. Extensive evacuation would be impossible because the surging water would cut off the few escape routes. Scientists at Louisiana State University (L.S.U.), who have modeled hundreds of possible storm tracks on advanced computers, predict that more than 100,000 people could die. The body bags wouldn't go very far.

[Vashner]

Well we used to have a flood basin downtown till that massive underground river project. I blame bush.. he should of used the time machine to save San Antonio from flooding years ago.

[timvp]

But, but we didn't know it'd be that bad.

[/Chertoff]

[Jelly]

LSU just released an analysis estimating that approximately 10,000 lives have been lost. In light of their 2001 prediction that 100,000 could die, it almost makes it look like the authorities are doing a great job.

[MannyIsGod]

Well we used to have a flood basin downtown till that massive underground river project. I blame bush.. he should of used the time machine to save San Antonio from flooding years ago.
Just STFU already.

[MannyIsGod]

LSU just released an analysis estimating that approximately 10,000 lives have been lost. In light of their 2001 prediction that 100,000 could die, it almost makes it look like the authorities are doing a great job.
Yeah right. The only reason 100,000 aren't dead is because the storm didn't come in as a Cat 5.

[timvp]

Rampant partisanship has destroyed common sense.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't know how much clearer things can be. I really don't. When the man you put in charge of planning recovery efforts comes out and says we didn't have a plan I woudln't think you would even attempt to spin it in any way.

Well, I'm apparently very wrong.

[Shelly]

Interesting (http://www.weather.com/multimedia/index.html?clip=2653&collection=topstory&from=wxcenter_video)

[timvp]

It's amazing the amount of people who can't think for themselves. I didn't vote in the last presidential election, but if I had, I would have voted for the eventual winner.

That doesn't mean that I can't look at this situation for what it is. Chertoff has said he had no idea that it'd be this bad. Yet EVERY FREAKIN' BODY knew it would be this bad. Actually, it turned out far better than what people feared. Yet the whole country acted as if this was one big surprise.

The amount of people who stayed behind was expected. The levees breaking was expected. The amount of "looters" was expected. The toxic soup that has engulfed the city was expected. All of this has been reported for decades, yet now the people in charge are playing the ignorance card.

And now depending on what side of the partisan divide individuals are on, they are responding accordingly ... instead of just looking at it in an unbiased manner.

Common sense is dead.

[Vashner]

Chertoff was smoking crack..

[MannyIsGod]

Chertoff was smoking crack..
:lmao



In comments on Thursday, Sep. 1, in an interview with Diane Sawyer of ABC News, President George W. Bush said, "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees. They did anticipate a serious storm. But these levees got breached." In comments to the press on Sep. 3, Homeland Security chief Michael Chertoff remarked, "That 'perfect storm' of a combination of catastrophes exceeded the foresight of the planners, and maybe anybody's foresight", and called the disaster "breathtaking in its surprise."

It's not our fault," said Army Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, in charge of the deployment of National Guard troops in New Orleans. "The storm came and flooded the city." What now Vashner? Diane Sawyer told him to say that?

GMAFB!!!!!!

[Vashner]

Fire the speech writer or something..

Besides Bush snorts not smokes the rock.

[MannyIsGod]

Everyone fucked up, but the blame ultimately goes to the people in charge of diaster relief. The federal govenrment. It should not have taken the length of time it did to mobilize. Don't feed me anymore excuses because there are none that are good enough.

NONE.

[Vashner]

Yes they should of had a QRF.. Quick Reaction Force.. for the centers...

Other than that everything else kinda takes time. We have been thru a lot of caines so people are good at fixing it. Florida almost thrives on constant damage.. it's become a huge business fixing stuff.

There are long standing procedures like force protection etc. You can't move in every kind of thing overnight. Soldiers need a place to eat, shit and sleep too.. it's more complicated for the long term recovery operations to move in.

A solid investigation will result in a better timeline and ID of who failed to get water and food dropped at the centers. Other than that I don't see any other issues in the response.

[MannyIsGod]

Well one thing is for sure. Things take too long when you have no plan.

I can't read this fucking thread anymore, it's just pissing me off.

[smeagol]

As i said before, there are posters such as clandestino, TRO, Hookdem, Vashner, DOS, who will always give the Federal Government the benefit of the doubt.

[SpursWoman]

I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but obviously not everyone is going to come out smelling like a rose. As a matter of fact, I think in this instance that rose 'done died.

There will be an investigation just like with 9/11 I'd imagine, with all protocol and legalities examined...but it's really hard to argue with a flat-out admission.

[whottt]

So you have more of a problem with people the race card than you have with Chertoff's statements?

Yeah...I have 1000 times more problem with officials politicizing this shit than I do with one of the few guys being honest about it.

I have a problem with the directors of the rescue attempt having to give defensive press conferences while the disaster is still ongoing.


You are an idiot.


No...unfortunately I am not on this one. In fact I think I am one of the few that realizes the responsibilities of city and state government...while the rest of you seem to think they don't do anything or have any responsibilities.

I was surprised about that at first...then I realized I am arguing with a bunch of San Antonians....San Antonio having the the shittiest and most corrupt city government and police force in the state from Cen Tex on up....since forever. I am just going to save my breath on it from now on.

I can already tell that Nagin could easily win the mayoral race in San Antonio...if the CIA doesn't kill him of course.

[whottt]

I don't even read Whottt's post in this thread. Whottt's style of arguing is to pick a side and then stick with it come hell, high water or a Cat 5 hurricane.



He backed the current administration so there is no way he will say anything negative about anyone on the federal level. That's how Whottt operates.

False.


Just like Brent Barry. Barry could throw up a billion and Whottt would be right there holding his hand talking about great he is.

:smokin


And you'll still be talking about how important Devin is if we want to win a title....

[Kori Ellis]

Yeah...I have 1000 times more problem with officials politicizing this shit than I do with one of the few guys being honest about it.

So Chertoff was honest? They actually had no idea that the damage was going to be anything like this? Homeland Security had no idea, but everyone in the media and in this forum did.

Please.


No...unfortunately I am not on this one. In fact I think I am one of the few that realized the responsibilities of city and state government...

Yes, you definitely are on this one. Not necessarily because of your point of views but because of irrational way of expressing yourself. Sometimes on this forum you go into Whottt-Manic mode. And you go on a relentless tirade of ramblings. I know your intentions may be good, but there's no difference between you and NBADan in your posting rants on occasion.

[timvp]

False.



:lmao

What kind of response is that? False?

Oh and the San Antonio smack is amazing. Because I happen to live in a town with crooked cops and politicians, that makes a difference? As a matter of fact, I've always lived outside the city limits.

So smoke that.

:shootme

[CharlieMac]

I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but obviously not everyone is going to come out smelling like a rose. As a matter of fact, I think in this instance that rose 'done died.

There will be an investigation just like with 9/11 I'd imagine, with all protocol and legalities examined...but it's really hard to argue with a flat-out admission.

I've been making smart ass comments about it for a few days, and even made one a few seconds ago in the politics forum.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/343489p-293306c.html

Someone is thinking about her career.

What a waste of time and money. Again. Much like with the 9/11 Commission the left is playing politics with a tragedy and Bush is catching an ass pounding from politicians "looking out for the little guys". They're so good to us.

Is it with good intentions? Common sense could come into play here as well. The media wins though. Big time.

I used to think that Clinton was the fucking man for being able to withstand witchhunt after witchhunt, and it would never get any worse than what the right did to him in the 90's. I never imagined it would one day be this popular and beneficial to so many people to constantly have blinders on and only go after one man.

[whottt]

For those interested...here is the City of New Orleans evacuation plan...I am genuinely happy they had one...they weren't quite as inept as I thought...except when it came to implementing it.

http://www.cityofno.com/SystemModules/PrintPage.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26


When Nagin declared a state of emergency he was totally in charge of New Orleans. That is the purpose of the declaration....

This guy ya'll think is a great leader in the past few days has gone on Radio cussing out everyone...crying...

And now he's going around claiming the CIA is going to assasinate him...

And ya'll think this fucking flake is a leader?


The Govenor is more accountable...but she got her state of emergency declaration approved...Bush sent her everything she asked for and mobilized a federal response...all those people getting rescued in day 1 and day 1 was FEMA...the State of Lousiana was busy doing nothing at the Superdome. She refused to cede authority even after Bush had given her disaster relief aid, before the storm even hit...

Even after he was imporing them to make the evacauation mandatory...something only they could do(Giving the mayor authority).

How well do you think they succeeded in implementing it?


As for the Federal response...it was shitty...

I gueess it's fair to say they had no plan...I think they had a plan it just didn't account for a second flood and the total and absolute collapse of the city and state emergency response.

Can ya'll tell me one freaking thing that Lousiana has done in this?

Shit...we are sheltering more of their people than they are...they got a thousand fucking busses sunk in New Orleans.

Don't ya think those might have helped speed up the evacuation processes just a little bit? 1000 or so busses? Would have been so hard to move them to the Superdome...or at least some high ground? Is having them move some portapotties and working generators to the Superdome too much to fucking ask of them?

Those things would have helped....and that way the fed could have focused on saving those that needed it...instead they were having to save the State and City's disaster workers.

The Fed did not expect to have to do this all on their own....if you want to lay a fault on them...then that is it.

As for how well they did...

Seeing as how this is th worst disaster in US history...and something no administration has ever had to do...There is nothing else to judge it against...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Come on, does anyone think that anyone is going to step up and accept responsibility?

There is going to be lawsuits up the ass out of this, you know Jesse J. and the NAACP are already aiming for Bush and his administration.

You won't see anyone admitting they fucked up. It will come out after the fact via Freedom of Information Act, etc.

You want to know what I think though? Everyone in the federal government, particularly FEMA, is responsible. Everyone in Congress on both sides of the aisle is responsible, they never felt the need to deal with this in DC (yes even "we need to have a commission" bitch Hillary Rodham).

Bush deserves some blame, he put Brown in charge of FEMA, and whoever had the bright idea to consolidate FEMA under DHS also deserves a good quick boot up the ass.

The government of La. and the city of New Orleans also lie at serious fault. The stupid ass governor still hasn't declared martial law, even when Nagin begged for it last Wednesday. She wouldn't sign off on joint command of the National Guard, which basically meant she was in charge of all those NG troops that people blamed the feds for "standing around, taking too long to get there, etc."

And last but not least we have Nagin. It took the head of FEMA and the President of the United fucking States BEGGING with the guy to get him to issue a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans, which at that point was great to see but in all practicality was way too late just 20 hours from land fall.

Then after the storm he blames everyone but himself, expects the feds to pick up the ball him and his governor dropped, and in the meantime he relocates to Baton Rouge and then cries about his police force saying fuck it and going home.

So yeah, a lot of people share blame. I guess you can call me a partisan defender of the Bush administration though, as long as everyone is going to absolve Nagin, Blanco, etc. of blame and hang it all on W., I'll defend him.

When I see more people recognizing the fact that it's not all Bush's fault, then we can talk.

[/soap box]

[timvp]

As for the Federal response...it was shitty...

I gueess it's fair to say they had no plan...

Whottt seeing the light.

Congrats.

Louisiana shouldn't have been expected to do much. They have one of the world's biggest ports, billions of dollars running through it everyday ... yet they are one of the poorer states in the country. Obviously, something has been messed up there for a long time.

To expect New Orleans or Louisiana to do something other than quiver in their boots was foolish. Neither the city nor the state have any history of taking action.

[Kori Ellis]

When I see more people recognizing the fact that it's not all Bush's fault, then we can talk.

Name anyone in this thread who has said it's all Bush's fault.

[Das Texan]

i've been out of this since somewhere around page 100 so forgive me if i repeat anything....


its really hilarious at this stupid blame game being played here. The blame lies on all sides for the failure in everything that has taken place. I think timvp said it best, everyone in the private sector knew what would happen, yet those on the governmental level had no clue. Fucking bullshit. Its just that instead of actually working to ensure that when this did happen, and the local idiots always ackowledged it would happen, just not on their watch, they focused on whatever other crap they focused on.

So they failed in that account.

The federal government failed in the way they reacted and mobilized, of course the state has to request the federal help first, which from what I understand was a tad late in happening. It's Bush's fault in that he structured the Dept Of Homeland security to focus basically on terrorism and ignoring everything else, even though he gave them all the responsiblity of doing this stuff, in effect making FEMA about as useless as he has made the EPA. Yet all the blame has been basically placed on FEMA and not where the blame should be most likely. Good job.


Here is one, why were there national guard troops in Mississippi ready for the after storm crap and this wasnt happening in Louisiana? Oh ya, cause for as much shit that we throw at Mississippi, at least they arent fucking clueless when it comes to hurricanes and the dangers of living on the gulf coast.

[Das Texan]

Whottt seeing the light.

To expect New Orleans or Louisiana to do something other than quiver in their boots was foolish. Neither the city nor the state have any history of taking action.


what do you expect? They do have French roots.

[timvp]

Pretty solid post, AHF.


When I see more people recognizing the fact that it's not all Bush's fault, then we can talk.

Honestly, I don't think it was much his fault. It turns out that some of these peeps he appointed have been horrible, but it's not like we heard much opposition when they were hired. It took him a while to figure out how bad it was and his response was damn slow, but so was everyone else involved.

No doubt, though, that this will be a blemish on his presidency. For anyone to deny that would be foolish.

And honestly, that really surprises me because Bush always came across as the perfect 'crisis' president. He was amazing dealing with 9/11. I think he's made the American people trust him about this current war ... even if not everyone agrees.

Bush thrives in disaster situations.

But he, along with thousands of others, dropped the ball in New Orleans.

Agreed?

[Dos]

another commission.. please it's just going to come to same conclusion we all know that everyone on every level failed... so save about 500 million dollars and use it rebuild NO...

[whottt]

Whottt seeing the light.

Congrats.

I never denied their responsibility...but I'll tell you right now...the biggest failure in all of this was the city and state governments.

L
ouisiana shouldn't have been expected to do much. They have one of the world's biggest ports, billions of dollars running through it everyday ... yet they are one of the poorer states in the country. Obviously, something has been messed up there for a long time.


Which kinda kicks the ole Bush doesn't care about poor ole NO myth in the ass doesn't it?

You think Big Oil wanted to see the port of New Orleans go out of commission?




To expect New Orleans or Louisiana to do something other than quiver in their boots was foolish. Neither the city nor the state have any history of taking action.


Well then we need rewrite the constitution and remove their power...

Because they had more power over the decisions made in this relief aid than the Federal Government. They controlled nearly all of the instate resources...

Federal being the key word there....Within NO the Mayor had more decision making power than the President of the United States...within the state of Louisiana the Govenor has more power.



Bush asked the Govenor to work in partnership with the Federal Government after the State of Emergency was approved and he granted every one of her requests...she refused to do that...she refused to cede authority...thus she had control of all of the state disaster resources...and they didn't do shit.

Honore is the FED..you know what he said if he'd been sent in there on day 1?

He said he'd have been a victim and needed to be rescued just like every one else. .

[CharlieMac]

Pretty solid post, AHF.



Honestly, I don't think it was much his fault. It turns out that some of these peeps he appointed have been horrible, but it's not like we heard much opposition when they were hired. It took him a while to figure out how bad it was and his response was damn slow, but so was everyone else involved.

No doubt, though, that this will be a blemish on his presidency. For anyone to deny that would be foolish.

And honestly, that really surprises me because Bush always came across as the perfect 'crisis' president. He was amazing dealing with 9/11. I think he's made the American people trust him about this current war ... even if not everyone agrees.

Bush thrives in disaster situations.

But he, along with thousands of others, dropped the ball in New Orleans.

Agreed?

Absolutely.

[whottt]

You guys keep pointing out how everyone knew this was going to happen except the Admin...evidentally no one in New Orleans did either...

Again...I cannot point out how badly the city and state officials fucked up on this...

Case in point...

The justification of the Police Force going AWOL...because many of them lost their families or didn't know where they were...

That means the freaking police force didn't even obey the mandatory evacuation with their families...these guys can't even save their own freaking families...

Do they get to use the "poor/no transportation/didn't understand the situation" card as well?

Common Sense indeed.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I think he dropped the ball in not stepping in earlier.

But as we saw courtesy the Washington Post, he's tried to be much more involved from a federal standpoint but the bitch ass La. Governor won't let him, and word is she was concerned politically.

So for all the "politics" being blamed on Bush, his administration is effectively being cockblocked by this bitch in the back office, while she comes out and tells the press that the government isn't helping her or Nagin out.

Total bullshit.

[timvp]

Whottt, maybe if you keep repeating "city and state", "city and state", "city and state" you'll begin to believe what you're saying.

Good luck.

[timvp]

I think he dropped the ball in not stepping in earlier.


Thank you. Now if I can get Nbadan to admit that it wasn't all Bush's fault and he shouldn't get impeached, the country will be just a tad bet better.

:hat

[whottt]

Whottt, maybe if you keep repeating "city and state", "city and state", "city and state" you'll begin to believe what you're saying.

Good luck.


Yeah...I just thank god for the all the help the Federal Government is giving us here in Texas...sheltering those 250,000 Louisianians...God knows State Govts can't do shit without the Fed.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah...I just thank god for the all the help the Federal Government is giving us here in Texas...sheltering those 250,000 Louisianians...God knows State Govts can't do shit without the Fed.
Actually dumbass, they just declared Texas in a state of medical emergency to allow for the federal aid that is going to facilitate what we are doing.

Diaseter reaction and relief on this scale falls mainly on the shoulders of the feds.

Want to tell me what FEMA stands for?

[boutons]

"I think he's made the American people trust him about this current war"

Then why does every recent poll show his popularity declining to historic lows, driven down primarily by his bullshit, bogus Iraq war. They will be driven even lower by Katrina and NO. He stole the 2000 election, and then claimed a "mandate", and then against a weak opponent in 2004, he snuck buy with win with a historically minuscule margin for an incumbent president. shrub's presidency is bent over and fucked.

"crisis president"? fuck no, his utterances and demeanor before and during his first NO visit were stupid and tone-deaf. So now he's hustling back down for a 2nd visit to try to fix that. The guy is political and intellectual cretin who can't speak English, the anti-communicator.

His "leadership", as shown by the dumbshits he put in charge of FEMA which he also had HIS Homeland security gut, is totally useless and counter-productive. He's truly an anti-leader

True responsibility at FEMA, HIS FEMA, would have known that a small, poor city like NO, and small, poor, badly managed, historically corrupt state like LA would be overwhelmed by any direct hit. FEMA wasn't ready, shrub and Repugs weren't ready.

shrub's OMB has essentially abandoned levee maintenance by underfunding it, over the objections of local, state, ACoE. The underfunding is part of the Repug's strategy of "starving the beast". Now people see what starving the beast means, which includes not investing in new/maintenance infrastructure (while makes enormous cuts in taxes and tax amnesties for richest 2% and for corps, in human terms.

Had the levees held, 90% of this embarrassing, ridiculous, NO fiasco and 1000s of deaths would simply have not occurred. Katrina would have been no worse or different than 4 major hurricanes pounding FL + AL only 12 months ago, or Andrew over a decade ago.

What kind of "leadership" causes the unnecessary deaths and injuries to 10's of 1000s it own citizens in bogus foreign wars and man-made catastrophes?

[whottt]

So Chertoff was honest? They actually had no idea that the damage was going to be anything like this? Homeland Security had no idea, but everyone in the media and in this forum did.

Please.

They didn't expect a second flood after the Hurricane...did you?

They didn't expect to have to do the job of the City and State Relief Forces....this after the City and State Relief Forces failed...while still having to do everything through the govenor.

She didn't call for all those additional troops until 3 or 4 days after the flood...


I think he is being honest...I think generally think the Fed is admitting fault here to an extent...

Is anyone else?

No...and evidentally that's all it takes to escape blame from the posters on this forum..because the biggest culprits in this disaster are getting a free ride.






Yes, you definitely are on this one. Not necessarily because of your point of views but because of irrational way of expressing yourself. Sometimes on this forum you go into Whottt-Manic mode. And you go on a relentless tirade of ramblings. I know your intentions may be good, but there's no difference between you and NBADan in your posting rants on occasion.


I am not going to dignify that comment with a response.

[Shelly]

Jesus, I don't know how NBADan and Boutons sleep at night with their 'shrub' hatred.

[MannyIsGod]

:lol

[MannyIsGod]

Jesus, I don't know how NBADan and Boutons sleep at night with their 'shrub' hatred.
:lol They really do make me seem like a fan of the current administration, and I'm really not. Its nuts!

[boutons]

"didn't expect a second flood after the Hurricane"

WTF? The failure of the levees and flooding of NO in a major hurricane have been on the emergency services' radars for many years.

This "who coulda known about the levees" defense of shrub/FEMA is totally dishonest.

[Clandestino]

fact is, everyone dropped the ball... ESPECIALLY NEW ORLEANS... if the federal government isn't helping you after 10 years, you should start fixing shit yourself.... they would have a stable levee system by now i'm sure...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

More proof local leadership really didn't have a plan...

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3kt.htm


NEW ORLEANS FLASHBACK: OFFICALS WARNED RESIDENTS 'YOU'LL BE ON YOUR OWN'
Mon Sep 05 2005 18:57:15 ET

Before residents had ever heard the words "Hurricane Katrina," the New Orleans TIMES-PICAYUNE ran a story warning residents: If you stay behind during a big storm, you'll be on your own!

Editors at TIMES-PICAYUNE on Monday called for every official at the Federal Emergency Management Agency to be fired. In an open letter to President Bush, the paper said: "Our people deserved rescuing. Many who could have been were not. That's to the government's shame."

But the TIMES-PICAYUNE published a story on July 24, 2005 stating: City, state and federal emergency officials are preparing to give a historically blunt message: "In the event of a major hurricane, you're on your own."

Staff writer Bruce Nolan reported some 7 weeks before Katrina: "In scripted appearances being recorded now, officials such as Mayor Ray Nagin, local Red Cross Executive Director Kay Wilkins and City Council President Oliver Thomas drive home the word that the city does not have the resources to move out of harm's way an estimated 134,000 people without transportation."

"In the video, made by the anti-poverty agency Total Community Action, they urge those people to make arrangements now by finding their own ways to leave the city in the event of an evacuation.

"You're responsible for your safety, and you should be responsible for the person next to you," Wilkins said in an interview. "If you have some room to get that person out of town, the Red Cross will have a space for that person outside the area. We can help you."

Developing...

So they knew they couldn't deal with the aftermath, then still dragged their feet afterwards on requesting large scale federal help, then blamed it on Bush.

Well, they certainly have the democratic playbook down.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What a lying sack of shit!


FEMA did not have a plan for a massive rescue or of receiving of evacuees. Said Homeland Security turned away the American Red Cross by saying it was too dangerous.

-Jesse Jackson

The head of the American Red Cross said that they didn't have anyone in NO because it was too dangerous until after the storm passed.

[CharlieMac]

"Bush's fault."

[MannyIsGod]

fact is, everyone dropped the ball... ESPECIALLY NEW ORLEANS... if the federal government isn't helping you after 10 years, you should start fixing shit yourself.... they would have a stable levee system by now i'm sure...
:lmao

[whottt]

Actually dumbass, they just declared Texas in a state of medical emergency to allow for the federal aid that is going to facilitate what we are doing.


Aww Manny learned what state of emergency is...

In that case you should be happy to know that the Govenor of Louisiana declared her state to be in one of emergency 2 days before the the Hurricane hit and was granted federal funding prior to an emergency for the second time in US history...I'd call that a pretty fast response...

Are you ready to praise Bush now for reacting quickly?


I hope you realize that that declaration also gave her control of all the State Resources and she refused to work with the Federal Government on a sharing of resources and power.

Bush was the one that pushed for the mandatory evacuation...not the Govenor and Mayor.


Too bad he couldn't order it....so you know...it could fall on the shoulders of the Federal Government, rather than a bunch of incompetent fucks.






Diaseter reaction and relief on this scale falls mainly on the shoulders of the feds.

Too bad the Govenor didn't feel that way...and you need to take it up with the constitution.


Want to tell me what FEMA stands for?

Want to tell me who was behind pulling all those people out of houses on Day 1 after the Hurricane?

Want to tell me who was in charge of maintaining security and shelter based on commandeering all of the in state relief resources, and failed miserably?

[Shelly]

Evacuees allowed back, for half a day
By Patrick O'Driscoll, USA TODAY
METAIRIE, La. — Mary Salassi rocks on the porch swing at her son Henry's house as he and his brother-in-law wade a borrowed kayak into three feet of water on West Livingston Place. Dipping wooden paddles meant for stirring a crawfish-boiling pot, they row off toward Salassi's flooded town house, several blocks away.
David Jackson pulls his canoe onto his porch as he returns while retrieving items from his Metairie home.
By Jack Gruber, USA TODAY

"I'm not going to worry about it," she says. "You can't go back and look at what happened. You have to go forward. Like I told my children and grandchildren: You have your family."

Salassi turned 66 a week ago, the day Hurricane Katrina demolished much of southern Louisiana and Mississippi. "They all said, 'You're never going to forget this birthday,' " she muses. "My life's upside down, but I will come back."

The Salassis were among the first evacuees allowed back to the western and southern suburbs of New Orleans on Monday, having driven all the way from Houston late Sunday. Through Thursday, Jefferson Parish is opening a 12-hour window — 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. CT — for hundreds of thousands to visit their storm-tossed neighborhoods, assess damage and grab a few belongings.

Then the people of Jefferson, whose 435,000 residents make it Louisiana's second-largest parish after New Orleans, must leave. Dubbed "residents-in-exile" by parish council president Aaron Broussard, they won't be allowed home again until power, water and other key services are restored. That could take weeks. Which is better than the months it may take in parts of New Orleans next door.

Most who endured several miles of bumper-to-bumper traffic to get into Jefferson Parish early Monday found that neighborhoods were wind-blown and shredded but dry or only damp; the high waters have receded.

But in Old Metairie, an enclave amid elegantly gnarled oaks on the west doorstep of New Orleans, the murky, sewage-tinged soup is still five feet deep in places.

"We're the highest point along what's called Metairie Ridge. We're where you run to in a flood," says Newell Normand, the parish's chief deputy sheriff. That was before a now-infamous levee on the 17th Street Canal, which straddles the Jefferson-Orleans boundary, gave way hours after Katrina passed.

"I'm told that the 17th Street Canal pump will go on today, but I've been told a lot of things over the past week that didn't work out," adds Normand, who has been set up at an emergency command post still without power.

Old Metairie borders the canal, whose breach inundated much of New Orleans and eastern Jefferson Parish. It turned a natural occurrence of extremely bad weather into the worst disaster in U.S. history.

"It's a man mistake, not the hurricane," Salassi says.

Whatever the blame, residents who trickle into the neighborhood bring chain saws, boats, generators and rental trucks. Those who haven't left town drift over to a relief center at the Sam's Club parking lot off Airline Highway. National Guard troops in green camouflage have been paired with sheriff's deputies to direct traffic and keep the peace at major intersections.

Despite uncounted fallen trees and thousands of downed power lines, most returnees are able to drive home. Others have to wade or paddle.

David Jackson, an Allstate insurance agent, has come from LaPlace, La., to fetch clothes, documents and wedding photos from a house swamped with two feet of water.

"I came here in a pair of flip-flops and shorts, and my son's track coach lent me a pair of boots and a boat," says Jackson, 43. He glances down at the green rubber footwear and does a double-take. "Two left boots!" he laughs. "But right now, they're the best boots in town."

After three trips in a flat-bottomed Cajun canoe called a pirogue, Jackson loads his pickup and sets out. "It's all about salvaging what we can today," he says. "My family was the most important priority. From tomorrow on, it'll be probably 10- to 12-hour days minimum for me" as he sorts out insurance claims for his clients.

Michael Norton, a computer consultant, drove in from Austin and found two feet of water, too, and a toppled tree. "I had a contract out to take down the pecan tree in my back yard," says Norton, 38. "Too late." And it missed his house. Other homes haven't been so lucky.

Slung over Norton's shoulder is a shotgun. His friend, Dan Sanders, 38, packs a pistol on his belt. "We were expecting the worst," Sanders explains, noting reports of violence spilling out of New Orleans. After half of Oakwood Shopping Mall, on the parish's West Bank, was ransacked and torched last week, tension has spiked in the suburbs. A spray-painted sign in a West Bank neighborhood warns: "U LOOT — WE SHOOT."

But the sheriff's office says the return of residents has gone fairly smoothly. "We haven't had too many problems — yet," Normand says.

As electricity has been restored sporadically, a few older homes have caught fire, probably from old or faulty wiring, he says. More ominous: reports of carbon monoxide poisoning deaths among families who rode out Katrina and fired up gas-powered generators after losing power. "The water surrounded the houses, and they brought their portable generators inside," Normand explains.

Back in Old Metairie, Maria Maginnis, 38, sits in the cab of the family SUV, eager to leave after having been carried piggy-back by her husband, David, through waist-high water to their split-level on Atherton Drive.

"I didn't want to come," she says, dread still in her voice. She laments the condition of her house, which might not be home again for months. "All the sewage," she says. "I didn't expect that."

They first had fled to Nacogdoches, Texas, then drifted closer — first to Beaumont, Texas, then Baton Rouge, the Louisiana capital about an hour west of here. On Monday, they arrived before 3 a.m. Maria stayed in the car at first while David, with flashlight and waders, slogged down the block in the dark.

"The anxiety of seeing your house is what is driving you," David says. "I wanted to do some preliminary checks so it wouldn't be such a shock when the sun came up. Regardless of what shape you find it in, it's a relief."

After sunrise, the couple surveyed a foot of water in the house. They stayed only long enough to grab a few essentials: baseballs and bats, a football, a New Orleans Saints T-shirt, a PlayStation, children's books, and Swimmy, the pet blue fighting fish for sons Cade, 8, and Connor, 4.

"The main thing for us is the kids," explains David, 39, who works for a major Louisiana fresh-tuna supplier. "They're separated from their friends, their everyday activities, their school. The waiting list for schools is incredible."

For Maria, the visit has lasted long enough. "I don't want to come back until it's livable," she says. "I am so ready to go."

At 7:45 a.m., they were gone.



Find this article at:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-09-05-evacuees-return_x.htm

[MannyIsGod]

Obviously you can't read. I said medical state of emergency.

Also, it was the NHC that called the mayor. Bush had nothing to do with it.

Don't let facts get in the way of your ranting, though.

[MannyIsGod]

Either way, I give up on arguing with you. Your going on ignore man. I'm getting too pissed over this shit.

[whottt]

Obviously you can't read. I said medical state of emergency.

Also, it was the NHC that called the mayor. Bush had nothing to do with it.

Don't let facts get in the way of your ranting, though.


And obviously you weren't watching the press conference when Nagin ordered the mandatory evac....Otherwise you'd know that Blanco said Bush called them personally and appealed for the mandatory evac...

Oh...you have me on ignore...maybe someday you'll find out the truth....

The administration totally had Louisianas back on this disaster...it was they(LA Gov) that didn't want to work in conjunction with the government...as a result...they failed miserably on their own...and the Government was given the entire burden of this relief effort with the Louisiana's governments major contribution being confusion...hardly a surprise since they were incapable of even communicating with their own forces in the city.

Blanco didn't even know Bush was scheduled to be in LA today...yeap...real swifties they got there in Louisiana.

[Clandestino]

And obviously you weren't watching the press conference when Nagin ordered the mandatory evac....Otherwise you'd know that Blanco said Bush called them personally and appealed for the mandatory evac...

Oh...you have me on ignore...maybe someday you'll find out the truth....

The administration totally had Louisianas back on this disaster...it was they(LA Gov) that didn't want to work in conjunction with the government...as a result...they failed miserably on their own...and the Government was given the entire burden of this relief effort with the Louisiana's governments major contribution being confusion...hardly a surprise since they were incapable of even communicating with their own forces in the city.

Blanco didn't even know Bush was scheduled to be in LA today...yeap...real swifties they got there in Louisiana.

you didn't know that the federal government is responsible for having an evac plan for every single city in the united states and that cities/states aren't allowed to do anything for themselves?

[whottt]

It's amazing the amount of people who can't think for themselves. I didn't vote in the last presidential election, but if I had, I would have voted for the eventual winner.


How did I miss this?

:tu

I didn't realize you were a fellow racist...why are we arguing again?

Here's you uni...


http://www.arts.usyd.edu.au/publications/philament/images/issue%205/Fig.3(a)_sinister%20mask%20(kkk).jpg


Mine has a Spurs logo on it.


Now that I know you are my kind I acan associate with you...In fact I'll be at the next GTG and I'll bring the burning cross!










The amount of people who stayed behind was expected.
The projection was 100k...there are more than that.


The levees breaking was expected. The amount of "looters" was expected. The toxic soup that has engulfed the city was expected. All of this has been reported for decades, yet now the people in charge are playing the ignorance card.

65% of the police force quitting was not expected...unsecured and unsupplied shelters were not expected...the absolute and total collapse of the commandeered state relief forces were not expected. People firing on the rescuers and doctors was not expected.



And now depending on what side of the partisan divide individuals are on, they are responding accordingly ... instead of just looking at it in an unbiased manner.

The local Democrats started the blame game...the Fed was originally trying to keep their mouth shut and have one voice. Just like they did in 2001...


Common sense is dead.

But naivete of what a marginalized political party will do to manipulate themselves back into power sure isn't....

[Vashner]

Cease Fire! ....

[MannyIsGod]

I have a very ominous feeling about this system:



A 1010 MB LOW IS CENTERED OVER THE N BAHAMA ISLANDS OFF THE THE
COAST OF S FLORIDA NEAR 26N78W AND IS NEARLY STATIONARY. THE
CENTER OF CIRCULATION IS NOT THAT WELL DEFINED ON THE MIAMI
RADAR IMAGERY BUT DOES NOT APPEAR TO BECOMING BETTER ORGANIZED
OVER THE PAST 6 HOURS. LOW IS BENEATH THE W SIDE OF AN UPPER
HIGH PRODUCING S SHEAR OVER THE SYSTEM. DEEP CONVECTION IS MORE
CONSOLIDATED OVER THE BAHAMA ISLANDS N OF LOW. SCATTERED
MODERATE/STRONG CONVECTION IS FROM 26N-28.5N BETWEEN 76.5W-79.5W
INCLUDING THE ISLANDS OF ABACO AND GRAND BAHAMA. THE LOW IS
EXPECTED TO DRIFT N TO NW BENEATH AN UPPER LEVEL HIGH AND BE
NEAR OR OVER FLORIDA DURING THE NEXT SEVERAL DAYS. TROPICAL
CYCLONE DEVELOPMENT IS POSSIBLE WITHIN THE NEXT DAY OR SO AS
UPPER LEVEL WINDS BECOME MORE FAVORABLE.

It is going to cross over to the Gulf soon, and I am pretty damn sure its going to be a named system by then. The pool of warm water in the gulf is still there. Katrina made a serious impact on the tempature of the waters, but the fact is that with water temps running so damn high to begin with there is still plenty of energy to fuel a hurricane.

[boutons]

"Jesus, I don't know how NBADan and Boutons sleep at night with their 'shrub' hatred."

That's not all you don't know, but I, and Jesus, thank you for your concern.

Nipping in to play the bullshit "hatred" card in the face of dissent against shrub/Repugs repeated, fatal fuckups, and nipping out, rather than address the issues.

[MannyIsGod]

The problem is you don't address issues, you spew unadulterated hatred and antibush bullshit. Everyone sees it but you.

[spurster]

On the blame game:

Several here are blaming NO for not starting evacuation earlier. However, I have heard nothing on the news where there were lots of people trying to get out before the storm, but were unable to. In hindsight, they should have been more proactive and provided public transport to get more people out, but I am not aware of any sizable city that has ever done this. It's usually the government says you should leave, and the people find their own way out.

As for action after the levies broke, NO had its hand full rescuing people. They had to make terrible choices between keeping order and rescue, all the time while their infrastructure was zilch, their own homes were flooded, and their family who knows where.

As for Louisiana, I agree Governor Weepy is at big fault here. It could be Louisiana was overwhelmed too because the hurricane hit SE Louisiana hard in addition to the NO flooding, but Louisiana seemed to be completely disorganized as far as NO was concerned.

As for the Feds, FEMA and Homeland Security were big-time failures. It wasn't until the general hit the ground that any substantial action began to occur.

[Vashner]

Not to mention over 500 NO police officers left there post.

[Jelly]

On the blame game:

Several here are blaming NO for not starting evacuation earlier. However, I have heard nothing on the news where there were lots of people trying to get out before the storm, but were unable to. In hindsight, they should have been more proactive and provided public transport to get more people out, but I am not aware of any sizable city that has ever done this. It's usually the government says you should leave, and the people find their own way out.
.

actually, you can pull up on the internet the New Orleans emergency plan for this scenario. (I think Whottt has posted it). They had a fairly well outlined plan in place. Sadly, no one implemented it. I believe it's paragraph 5 that addresses evacuating those people who can't leave on their own. They were supposed to have used those busses...the ones we all saw under water after the storm. And they were supposed to have pre-arranged shelters to take people to. All that could have been done. Local indifference and incompetence impeded those plans. No one is saying it would have been an easy job evacuating all those people, but it would have been a lot easier than managing the horrific nightmare that took place last week.

[MannyIsGod]

actually, you can pull up on the internet the New Orleans emergency plan for this scenario. (I think Whottt has posted it). They had a fairly well outlined plan in place. Sadly, no one implemented it. I believe it's paragraph 5 that addresses evacuating those people who can't leave on their own. They were supposed to have used those busses...the ones we all saw under water after the storm. And they were supposed to have pre-arranged shelters to take people to. All that could have been done. Local indifference and incompetence impeded those plans. No one is saying it would have been an easy job evacuating all those people, but it would have been a lot easier than managing the horrific nightmare that took place last week.
Jeff Masters already tore that plan apart as being pretty weak to begin with.

[spurster]

Ok, you're right. NO failed on the evacuation.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'm sure this will make Dan and boutons happy...

http://www.breitbart.com/news/na/D8CERLA00.html

Bush will lead the investigation into what went wrong himself. Michael Brown, wherever you are, time to start working on that resume.

[Jelly]

I'm sure this will make Dan and boutons happy...

http://www.breitbart.com/news/na/D8CERLA00.html

Bush will lead the investigation into what went wrong himself. Michael Brown, wherever you are, time to start working on that resume.

There were so many ball droppers in this fiasco...is there anyone left untainted? Anyone that could possibly lead an objective investigation?

[Jelly]

I just thought of a possible silver lining for these people. I'm watching them getting off an airplane in another city. They're being sent all over the U.S. So far, I've heard Utah, Texas, Washington, Oregon, Michigan, Indiana, Virginia...
This might be an opportunity for people to dramatically change their lives by starting anew in a place that isn't a bastion of crime and poverty . It's got to be hard to lose your entire city and those people being sent so far from home are going to be traumatised, but honestly, there are so many better places to live than New Orleans.

[Clandestino]

on the news last night they said, that in texas we don't have projects, we have a voucher system and that these people would be able to get the assistance they needed to find a place to live.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

http://www.nppa.org/news_and_events/news/2005/09/images/katrina_D2_kids.jpg

Look closely, one of the kids is sporting a Spurs jersey. :depressed

[TOP-CHERRY]

Look closely, one of the kids is sporting a Spurs jersey. :depressed
Wow.

[boutons]

"Bush will lead the investigation"

He can't lead his brain to his tongue.

Will shrub shield his presidential, HLS/FEMA, etc documents from his own investigation, claiming executive privilege and national security? :lol

I say Jerktoff and Brown will get Medals of Freedom.

[Kori Ellis]

Boutons, keep your crap in the Political Forum. Thanks.

[boutons]

After 3,600 posts, I'm the first to post political sentiments in The Club's Katrina thread?

whatever...

[SpursWoman]

After 3,600 posts, I'm the first to post political sentiments in The Club's Katrina thread?

whatever...


1. They've all been moved or deleted out of the thread
2. *Ya'll* have been asked REPEATEDLY to take it elsewhere.


But, whatever.

[Kori Ellis]

After 3,600 posts, I'm the first to post political sentiments in The Club's Katrina thread?

whatever...

No, you aren't the first and you won't be the last. 100's of them have been removed from this thread and put into the Political Forum.

[whottt]

There were so many ball droppers in this fiasco...is there anyone left untainted? Anyone that could possibly lead an objective investigation?


Someone...um Bishop Ryan I think, said it best....

All the inquiry will do is spend 500 million and end up making some obscure findings that change no ones mind and more than likely only increases the finger pointing...

That 500 million is better spent rebuilding NO.

[MannyIsGod]

Someone...um Bishop Ryan I think, said it best....

All the inquiry will do is spend 500 million and end up making some obscure findings that change no ones mind and more than likely only increases the finger pointing...

That 500 million is better spent rebuilding NO.
Son of a bitch. Whottt and I agree on something.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I thought that when I heard Hillary talking about "no expense spared to evaluate our response."

Spare me the political rhetoric. The bureaucracy that is the federal government is to blame, and I just saved you all that money Hillary. You're already paying people in government to evaluate response plans, etc. Fire them, get some new ones, and let them do their friggin' jobs.

On another note...


BATON ROUGE: U.S. Attorney Jim Letten told reporters Tuesday that Wendell A. Bailey was arrested for atempting to destroy or endanger an aircraft early Tuesday morning. Law enforcement received a report via WWL radio that listeners had heard shots being fired in the Algiers area. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms officers in Algiers responded witnessed Bailey firing at a passing military helicopter and took him into custody. Bailey, a convicted felon, was found in possession of a firearm.

I think death by firing squad would be a fitting tribute for him.

[Shelly]

Someone...um Bishop Ryan I think, said it best....

All the inquiry will do is spend 500 million and end up making some obscure findings that change no ones mind and more than likely only increases the finger pointing...

That 500 million is better spent rebuilding NO.

Agree 347398743874894664386437643473809875 etc %

[Jelly]

Someone...um Bishop Ryan I think, said it best....

All the inquiry will do is spend 500 million and end up making some obscure findings that change no ones mind and more than likely only increases the finger pointing...

That 500 million is better spent rebuilding NO.

true. but it will give a bunch of senators and congressmen to showcase their outrage, so......let the :blah :blah :blah begin.

[travis2]

I thought that when I heard Hillary talking about "no expense spared to evaluate our response."

Spare me the political rhetoric. The bureaucracy that is the federal government is to blame, and I just saved you all that money Hillary. You're already paying people in government to evaluate response plans, etc. Fire them, get some new ones, and let them do their friggin' jobs.

On another note...



I think death by firing squad would be a fitting tribute for him.

Oh, I dunno...I'm kinda partial to bullet wounds in both legs and then tossing him into the flood waters...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

^^^^^^^^^ Yeah, but then Jesse Jackson would say that's racist, how white folk treated the slaves, and sue.

You can get martial law declared and then just shoot the guy.

[travis2]

Spoilsport...:p

[Dos]

actually I said you could save 500 million on a investigation... cause it will be the same.. all levels failed terribly.. so save the 500 million rebuild lives with that money..

[Jelly]

Some of the aid coming from abroad...

- Greece is sending two passenger ships to host evacuees over the next months and a special confrontation unit (EMAK) to help evacuate and transport stranded people.

- Kuwait is donating $500 million in humanitarian aid, including $50 million in downstream oil products.

- A 25-member Philippine humanitarian team was to be dispatched within the week and to include doctors, nurses, sanitary engineers and psychiatrists.

- Iran offered help through the Red Crescent whenever it receives an official request from the US. Washington and Teheran have had no diplomatic relations for 26 years.

- Up to 13 European Union states have responded to US requests for help, as well as the bloc's Civil Protection Mechanism. Teams of medical, logistical, communication, search and rescue experts are being formed.

Equipment is to include tents, blankets, water purification equipment, water pumps, meals and generators and transport. Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Sweden and the United Kingdom have responded.


The US has also specifically asked the EU for first-aid kits, tankers and 500,000 meal rations.

- A Saudi Arabia-based regional charitable fund is donating $250,000 to humanitarian relief to help children harmed by the disaster.

- Singapore is sending three military Chinook helicopters to evacuate survivors.

- Thailand's King Bhumibol Adulyadej Monday indicated he would send unspecified amounts of Thai rice.

- Israel is sending a rescue team of civil defence officials specialised in rescue operations and locating bodies, as well as food and equipment.

- The Czech Republic has offered to send $1 million worth of supplies and medical, rescue and flood-control teams.

The United States has historically been the world's largest donor to nations in need, but last week let it be known it would accept help from a variety of nations.

[Jelly]

Now here's a great idea!

Customs officials send seized goods to victims
Initial shipments of clothing, toys, dog food go to Texas

Tuesday, September 6, 2005; Posted: 1:42 p.m. EDT (17:42 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Yves St. Laurent and Tommy Hilfiger labels may be phony, but the thousands of Hurricane Katrina victims getting knockoff items seized by federal customs officials probably don't mind.

Displaced survivors in the Houston Astrodome can choose from counterfeit and abandoned clothing, toys, and even dog food.

More than 100,000 items were quickly taken from warehouses and more will follow, said Kristi Clemens, spokeswoman for the Department of Homeland Security's Customs and Border Protection division.

The agency has some 1 million items stored, and Customs officials are going through their inventory to see what else would be useful. While the initial shipment went to Texas, officials are looking toward a wider distribution, Clemens said.

For humans, virtually anything that you can wear is available: underwear, jeans, baseball caps, T-shirts, shoes and socks. For dogs: much needed food. For children, toys. For everyone: clean sheets and blankets.

Clemens said officials are looking for locations to deliver items in Louisiana and Mississippi, and then will scout for shelters in other states.

American businesses lose up to $250 billion annually from knockoffs, according to figures released in a Senate hearing. Federal officials seized $138 million in counterfeited goods last year, up from $94 million in 2003.

Counterfeit clothing currently accounts for about 18 percent of seized items.

Law enforcement officials and other experts have testified that counterfeit clothing and other goods have been traced to supporters of terror organizations.

Most counterfeit items come from China, the United Arab Emirates, Pakistan and Russia, according to Customs officials.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

^^^^^^^ Awesome idea.

ON a sadder note, a message from another board I post on...


so, I get a call from my brother yesterday. his best friend lives in new orleans, but not in the worst parts of it. his house was flooded, but only by a couple of feet of water. like the rest of hard core people, he never left.

well, he killed 3 people over the weekend. looters were trying to break into his house, and he warned them multiple times that he had a gun. they came in anyways, and he killed 3 guys. he called the cops, and they said they couldn't do anything, to just drag the bodies outside.


Two separate instances, one with two guys, the other a guy by himself.

[SpursWoman]

That's awesome! :lol :lol



I meant Jelly's post.... :depressed

[SWC Bonfire]

That's why you have the right to bear arms, people.

Doesn't mean that excercizing that right is pleasant. I'm certainly not going to pass judgement on the guy given his situation.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Who's watching Oprah?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Sure you did SW :lol

I can't figure out if this is the castle doctrine or darwin doctrine at work though...

I guess it's one way to deal with the looting problem [/gun toting Texan]

[SpursWoman]

Sure you did SW :lol



:oops



Seriously....it's awful that he had to experience that, but I don't feel sorry for the looters at all. He could very well have saved a few lives--including his own--that day.

[SWC Bonfire]

Well, according to Texas Law, he couldn't have shot someone who walked into his house and took a tv set if they didn't pose a threat to him physically. I am assuming from your description that he exhausted all non-violent attempts to keep them off the premesis and their attempt to forcefully enter the house was construed as life-threatening.

[Sonia_TX]

Obiwan, I saw Oprah. It was a great show.

[Vashner]

Well, according to Texas Law, he couldn't have shot someone who walked into his house and took a tv set if they didn't pose a threat to him physically. I am assuming from your description that he exhausted all non-violent attempts to keep them off the premesis and their attempt to forcefully enter the house was construed as life-threatening.

That's not true. If they are in the house you can shoot them...
If it's nighttime and they are stealing something outside.. you can shoot them. Daytime you can't pursue them past your private property and only shoot outside if you are under a threat or they are stealing something that can't be replaced.

Next time your gonna quote Texas use of force learn it first...

Edit: I want to add here to you guys.. ANY BURGLER should be considered deadly. You want them to steal your stuff THEN shank you? After they drive off with your cell phone or land lines cut off and your there bleeding to death?

IF SOMEONE breaks into your home or apartment.. either run away or blow them away.. Don't wait to find out if they are going to try to KILL YOU.. This is San Antonio it's full of criminals.

[2Blonde]

Who's watching Oprah?
I cried right along with Oprah through the whole show. Wasn't that something when they didn't want her to go inside the Superdome because they were worried about what diseases she might catch. She had to absolve them on camera of all liability before she could go in. She said if people lived in there for 6 days the she could handle a few minutes.I just heard on the news that they will probably have to demolish it.
I told my daughter that I don't believe I have ever seen so many men of power break down and cry as have seen after this disaster. It's breaking my heart.
After 9-11 we had an enemy to get mad at and direct our rage towards. This time there is no human enemy and much of the carnage was due to our failures as a society in not preparing correctly for this type of disaster. While we couldn't have stopped this, we could have reduced the death toll tremendously and I think this is what is making this so tragic.

[ObiwanGinobili]

I was crying all thru the Oprah show....whta really got me was the man with the dog. .and how he and that dog had saved his neighbors life and now after having that dog for 14 yrs he would have to leave it behind if he got on a bus... :cry

but then later on in the show they showed the doctor... and all thoise dead bodies... that woman just lying dead o nthe bridge uncovered... :cry.
And then when he was holding that baby waho was just suckign down thta water he gave her like a vacuum and he heard her heart with a stethesvope nad the rate was over 200bpm...... OMG.

thankgoodnessthe Oprah show is only an hour casue I was a wreck he whole time.. and glued to it too. I couldn't even think of changing the channel.

[SpursWoman]

I was crying all thru the Oprah show....whta really got me was the man with the dog. .and how he and that dog had saved his neighbors life and now after having that dog for 14 yrs he would have to leave it behind if he got on a bus... :cry

but then later on in the show they showed the doctor... and all thoise dead bodies... that woman just lying dead o nthe bridge uncovered... :cry.
And then when he was holding that baby waho was just suckign down thta water he gave her like a vacuum and he heard her heart with a stethesvope nad the rate was over 200bpm...... OMG.

thankgoodnessthe Oprah show is only an hour casue I was a wreck he whole time.. and glued to it too. I couldn't even think of changing the channel.


Do they show Oprah on In Demand on TWC?

[Shelly]

Do they show Oprah on In Demand on TWC?

No.

[spurster]

A permanent move from New Orleans has begun for many.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/07/national/nationalspecial/07home.html

...

In Houston alone, close to 1,200 evacuees moved on Tuesday from the Astrodome into apartments with six-month leases.

...

[SpursWoman]

No.


Thanks.

[MannyIsGod]

who caught Stephon on ESPN?
I did. I was amazed how torn up he was.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I think someone was asking about the Mississippi a ways back...


BATON ROUGE (AP): Hurricane Katrina sank or grounded 110 barges, ships and boats -- 67 of them in the Mississippi River, and another 43 along the coast, a Coast Guard spokesman said Tuesday.

Petty Officer Larry Chambers had no further breakdown, or even an estimate on how many were barges and how many motorized vessels.

An obstruction -- he didn't know what it was -- at Southwest Pass, the main entrance to the river, kept ships with more than 35 feet of their hulls underwater from getting into the river, Chambers said. Some tankers and container ships can still get through, he said.

Another major difficulty was that the storm destroyed or blew away many of the markers showing the deepest part of the channel through the twisty river. Chambers didn't know what percentage was missing.

"Just extremely high," he said. "That's still in the survey stage as well, determining how many."

I wonder what's buried at the SW pass, probably a barge or tanker.

Crazy.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301653_4.html


Other federal and state officials pointed to Louisiana's failure to measure up to national disaster response standards, noting that the federal plan advises state and local emergency managers not to expect federal aid for 72 to 96 hours, and base their own preparedness efforts on the need to be self-sufficient for at least that period.

So, a long standing ground rule for all state and local governments has been to be self-sufficient for at least 72 hours, which puts the federal response late Wednesday/early Thursday pretty much exactly when they said it would be.

[Vashner]

We need to make a Spurstalk SHTF Kit List...

Survival stuff plus like a Spurstalk Emergency Spurs Fan tshirts..
So when we are wiped out and in Houston we can find each other... :)

I am breaking my own rule right now with no bottled water and I had to eat
a lot of the canned foods cause expire dates where coming up (from my post 911 stash).

[Nbadan]

AHF is intentional manipulating the information in the article he linked to. This is what the article actually says...


Others who went out of their way to offer help were turned down, such as Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley, who told reporters his city had offered emergency, medical and technical help as early as last Sunday to FEMA but was turned down. Only a single tank truck was requested, Daley said. Red tape kept the American Ambulance Association from sending 300 emergency vehicles from Florida to the flood zone, according to former senator John Breaux (D-La.) They were told to get permission from the General Services Administration. "GSA said they had to have FEMA ask for it," Breaux told CNN. "As a result they weren't sent."

Federal authorities say there is blame enough to go around. In a news conference yesterday, Chertoff cautioned against "finger-pointing" and said no one had been equipped to handle what amounted to two simultaneous disasters -- the hurricane and subsequent levee break.

Other federal and state officials pointed to Louisiana's failure to measure up to national disaster response standards, noting that the federal plan advises state and local emergency managers not to expect federal aid for 72 to 96 hours, and base their own preparedness efforts on the need to be self-sufficient for at least that period. "Fundamentally the first breakdown occurred at the local level," said one state official who works with FEMA. "Did the city have the situational awareness of what was going on within its borders? The answer was no."

So FEMA did everything it could to sabotage preparedness before the storm and emergency search and rescue efforts after the storms, then they turn around and conveniently blame the Democratic Governor and Democratic Mayor for not being better prepare. Fucken typical.

Sorry about the rant in this forum Kori but there is so much misinformation going on in this thread it is disgusting.

[travis2]

AHF is intentional manipulating the information in the article he linked to. This is what the article actually says...



So FEMA did everything it could to sabotage preparedness before the storm and emergency search and rescue efforts after the storms, then they turn around and conveniently blame the Democratic Governor and Democratic Mayor for not being better prepare. Fucken typical.

Sorry about the rant in this forum Kori but there is so much misinformation going on in this thread it is disgusting.

STFU, Dan. Keep your own misinformation, miscategorizations, and outright lies in the Liars Forum where it (and you) belong.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'm not manipulating anything. It's there in black and white.

There's some irony in NBADallah accusing anyone of manipulating a story to fit their argument, but it's so thick I'm having trouble finding a knife to cut it with.

I know this story breaks your heart because it's a reputable news organization that doesn't jive with your "it's all Bush's fault" argument, but it's time for you to grow up, take off the tin foil hat, and realize that those aren't black helicopters over your house, just flies.

[Hook Dem]

I'm not manipulating anything. It's there in black and white.

There's some irony in NBADallah accusing anyone of manipulating a story to fit their argument, but it's so thick I'm having trouble finding a knife to cut it with.

I know this story breaks your heart because it's a reputable news organization that doesn't jive with your "it's all Bush's fault" argument, but it's time for you to grow up, take off the tin foil hat, and realize that those aren't black helicopters over house, just flies.
Even the flies wouldn't buy into Dan's bullshit! :lol

[Clandestino]

:lmao fucking hilarious!

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

55 Defining Images of Hurricane Katrina (Poynter.org) (http://www.poynterextra.org/Katrina/gallery/index.htm)

55 photos in Flash. Pretty powerful stuff.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

http://sigmund.biz/0906/trashed.jpg

One more.

[Jelly]

Today on NPR, they were interviewing people from various relief agencies. Someone called in and asked if it was true that the Red Cross tried to get in to deliver aid in the early aftermath but was denied access by the government. The woman confirmed that the Louisiana state government did, in fact, deny the Red Cross access before and in the immediate aftermath. State officials told the Red Cross that if the people were given aid, they would not evacuate. :wtf

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The woman confirmed that the Louisiana state government did, in fact, deny the Red Cross access before and in the immediate aftermath.

But but but, that's not what Dan said.

[Jelly]

But but but, that's not what Dan said.

According to NPR, attempts to reach NBADan for comment were unsuccessful.

[MannyIsGod]

I think it is pretty safe to say that all levels of government failed their constituants. Horrible.

[MiNuS]

I think it is pretty safe to say that all levels of government failed their constituants. Horrible.
its also pretty safe to say that the President,the executive of the United States government was asleep once again.

[MannyIsGod]

its also pretty safe to say that the President,the executive of the United States government was asleep once again.
Political Forum.

What about that don't you idiots understand?

[Clandestino]

I think it is pretty safe to say that all levels of government failed their constituants. Horrible.

haha.. you either!


:lol

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Some breaking news...

Some telephone line workers got shot at today. They called in ATF, 82nd Airborne, US Marshalls, etc., followed this guy back to the Projects, busted in and caught the guy. Had multiple guns in his place.

I'm all for the firing squad on this one.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

To be fair to Manny, I think there's a difference between saying all of gvt. f'ed up (which is fairly obvious) and the repeated attacks on Bush by some individuals (including minusplus).

[Clandestino]

Some breaking news...

Some telephone line workers got shot at today. They called in ATF, 82nd Airborne, US Marshalls, etc., followed this guy back to the Projects, busted in and caught the guy. Had multiple guns in his place.

I'm all for the firing squad on this one.

new orleans will always be a dangerous place.

[MiNuS]

Political Forum.

What about that don't you idiots understand?
"I think it is pretty safe to say that all levels of government failed their constituants. Horrible."Today 10:57 AM


smell it? that's right,it's you buddy.

[Jelly]

its also pretty safe to say that the President,the executive of the United States government was asleep once again.

I think one of George Bush's biggest problems is his tendancy to delegate and/or to have too much faith and loyalty in people at other levels of authority. In this case, he didn't delegate, he just foolishly expected the state and local authorities to be able to do their job. He tends to sit back and expect everything to fall in place. He has way too much confidence in the system and in others. He should have been all over everybody's ass right away.

[Vashner]

Not all levels.. first responders have been really trying a lot .. on all levels. When you say "the government" it's not just 1 person(s).

[Jelly]

oops. got a little political there. sorry :angel

[Vashner]

I think one of George Bush's biggest problems is his tendancy to delegate and/or to have too much faith and loyalty in people at other levels of authority. In this case, he didn't delegate, he just foolishly expected the state and local authorities to be able to do their job. He tends to sit back and expect everything to fall in place. He has way too much confidence in the system and in others. He should have been all over everybody's ass right away.

FUCK SAKES... presidents are supposed to delagate.. take your shit to the NBAdan forum...

Bush is not Clinton. get the fuck over it...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

he just foolishly expected the state and local authorities to be able to do their job.

He's the President of the US. Not some micro-managing middle management guy at a fortunte 500 company. Sheesh.

[Jelly]

FUCK SAKES... presidents are supposed to delagate.. take your shit to the NBAdan forum...

Bush is not Clinton. get the fuck over it...

Look jerk, you will notice that in my follow-up post I acknowledged that I had gotten a little political and actually apologized (something practically unheard of in this forum).There's no need to be such an overreactive and rude asshole.

BTW...who said anything about Clinton?? What is wrong with you? Why not just bring Eisenhower into the discussion?

[Extra Stout]

He's the President of the US. Not some micro-managing middle management guy at a fortunte 500 company. Sheesh.
In a major catastrophe like this, which is after all only the biggest natural disaster in American history, I don't think it's asking too much for the President to step up the bird-dogging.

[MannyIsGod]

"I think it is pretty safe to say that all levels of government failed their constituants. Horrible."Today 10:57 AM


smell it? that's right,it's you buddy.
I didn't take put a political spin on things, you did.

[Ginofan]

This thread has become pretty much become unbearable :oops

[MiNuS]

continue.

I am just waiting for November to get here.

[JoeChalupa]

I think one of George Bush's biggest problems is his tendancy to delegate and/or to have too much faith and loyalty in people at other levels of authority. In this case, he didn't delegate, he just foolishly expected the state and local authorities to be able to do their job. He tends to sit back and expect everything to fall in place. He has way too much confidence in the system and in others. He should have been all over everybody's ass right away.

I concur.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I think one of George Bush's biggest problems is his tendancy to delegate and/or to have too much faith and loyalty in people at other levels of authority. In this case, he didn't delegate, he just foolishly expected the state and local authorities to be able to do their job. He tends to sit back and expect everything to fall in place. He has way too much confidence in the system and in others. He should have been all over everybody's ass right away.

Okay, how many of you who feel this way have ever led an organization of any size? I'm just curious. I ran three different organizations at A&M, and if I didn't do any delegation I probably wouldn't have made it through any of that. Not because I couldn't handle it, but because people develop an expertise on matters that as a leader and the face of an organization, you can't dive into as deep.

And nothing that myself or anyone else posting here has done could even begin to approach the level of leadership required to lead a nation and the entire free world, and it goes without saying that he has to deal with the largest bureacracy in the world as well.

The people that you bag on Bush for trusting have probably forgotten more about dealing with natural disasters than he could ever know, and somehow you fault him for that.

I will agree that they did drop the ball, but thinking Bush is somehow negligent when the people he's trusted in matters like this have handled every disaster before in a suitable manner is sorely misguided, IMO.

Take Michael Brown, dude obviously f'ed this up, I think we can all agree on that. Last year he dealt with 4 hurricanes in Florida and the Gulf Coast, and also dealt with that wicked tornado outbreak in the Midwest I think it was either last year or the year before.

Given that (particularly dealing with FOUR hurricances last year), I don't think you can fault Bush for trusting the same guy leading the same organization to do the same job

[JoeChalupa]

Okay, how many of you who feel this way have ever led an organization of any size? I'm just curious. I ran three different organizations at A&M, and if I didn't do any delegation I probably wouldn't have made it through any of that. Not because I couldn't handle it, but because people develop an expertise on matters that as a leader and the face of an organization, you can't dive into as deep.

And nothing that myself or anyone else posting here has done could even begin to approach the level of leadership required to lead a nation and the entire free world, and it goes without saying that he has to deal with the largest bureacracy in the world as well.

The people that you bag on Bush for trusting have probably forgotten more about dealing with natural disasters than he could ever know, and somehow you fault him for that.

I will agree that they did drop the ball, but thinking Bush is somehow negligent when the people he's trusted in matters like this have handled every disaster before in a suitable manner is sorely misguided, IMO.

Take Michael Brown, dude obviously f'ed this up, I think we can all agree on that. Last year he dealt with 4 hurricanes in Florida and the Gulf Coast, and also dealt with that wicked tornado outbreak in the Midwest I think it was either last year or the year before.

Given that (particularly dealing with FOUR hurricances last year), I don't think you can fault Bush for trusting the same guy leading the same organization to do the same job

I concur.

[Shelly]

Special Report
Get Off His Back (Updated)
By Ben Stein
Published 9/2/2005 11:59:59 PM

***UPDATED: Sunday, Sept. 4, 2005, 2:13 p.m.***

A few truths, for those who have ears and eyes and care to know the truth:

1.) The hurricane that hit New Orleans and Mississippi and Alabama was an astonishing tragedy. The suffering and loss of life and peace of mind of the residents of those areas is acutely horrifying.

2.) George Bush did not cause the hurricane. Hurricanes have been happening for eons. George Bush did not create them or unleash this one.

3.) George Bush did not make this one worse than others. There have been far worse hurricanes than this before George Bush was born.

4.) There is no overwhelming evidence that global warming exists as a man-made phenomenon. There is no clear-cut evidence that global warming even exists. There is no clear evidence that if it does exist it makes hurricanes more powerful or makes them aim at cities with large numbers of poor people. If global warming is a real phenomenon, which it may well be, it started long before George Bush was inaugurated, and would not have been affected at all by the Kyoto treaty, considering that Kyoto does not cover the world's worst polluters -- China, India, and Brazil. In a word, George Bush had zero to do with causing this hurricane. To speculate otherwise is belief in sorcery.

5.) George Bush had nothing to do with the hurricane contingency plans for New Orleans. Those are drawn up by New Orleans and Louisiana. In any event, the plans were perfectly good: mandatory evacuation. It is in no way at all George Bush's fault that about 20 percent of New Orleans neglected to follow the plan. It is not his fault that many persons in New Orleans were too confused to realize how dangerous the hurricane would be. They were certainly warned. It's not George Bush's fault that there were sick people and old people and people without cars in New Orleans. His job description does not include making sure every adult in America has a car, is in good health, has good sense, and is mobile.

6.) George Bush did not cause gangsters to shoot at rescue helicopters taking people from rooftops, did not make gang bangers rape young girls in the Superdome, did not make looters steal hundreds of weapons, in short make New Orleans into a living hell.

7.) George Bush is the least racist President in mind and soul there has ever been and this is shown in his appointments over and over. To say otherwise is scandalously untrue.

8.) George Bush is rushing every bit of help he can to New Orleans and Mississippi and Alabama as soon as he can. He is not a magician. It takes time to organize huge convoys of food and now they are starting to arrive. That they get in at all considering the lawlessness of the city is a miracle of bravery and organization.

9.) There is not the slightest evidence at all that the war in Iraq has diminished the response of the government to the emergency. To say otherwise is pure slander.

10.) If the energy the news media puts into blaming Bush for an Act of God worsened by stupendous incompetence by the New Orleans city authorities and the malevolence of the criminals of the city were directed to helping the morale of the nation, we would all be a lot better off.

11.) New Orleans is a great city with many great people. It will recover and be greater than ever. Sticking pins into an effigy of George Bush that does not resemble him in the slightest will not speed the process by one day.

12.) The entire episode is a dramatic lesson in the breathtaking callousness of government officials at the ground level. Imagine if Hillary Clinton had gotten her way and they were in charge of your health care.

God bless all of those dear people who are suffering so much, and God bless those helping them, starting with George Bush.

****
UPDATE: Sunday, Sept. 4, 2005, 2:13 p.m.:

More Mysteries of Katrina:

Why is it that the snipers who shot at emergency rescuers trying to save people in hospitals and shelters are never mentioned except in passing, and Mr. Bush, who is turning over heaven and earth to rescue the victims of the storm, is endlessly vilified?

What church does Rev. Al Sharpton belong to that believes in passing blame and singling out people by race for opprobrium and hate?

What special abilities does the media have for deciding how much blame goes to the federal government as opposed to the city government of New Orleans for the aftereffects of Katrina?

If able-bodied people refuse to obey a mandatory evacuation order for a city, have they not assumed the risk that ill effects will happen to them?

When the city government simply ignores its own sick and hospitalized and elderly people in its evacuation order, is Mr. Bush to blame for that?

Is there any problem in the world that is not Mr. Bush's fault, or have we reverted to a belief in a sort of witchcraft where we credit a mortal man with the ability to create terrifying storms and every other kind of ill wind?

Where did the idea come from that salvation comes from hatred and criticism and mockery instead of love and co-operation?


Ben Stein is a writer, actor, economist, and lawyer living in Beverly Hills and Malibu. He also writes "Ben Stein's Diary" in every issue of The American Spectator. Please click here to subscribe.

[Marklar MM]

All that was missing from Mrs. Cunninghams diet that day was a taste of Juan Lopez' chalupa.

[MannyIsGod]

Ben Stein needs to check his facts on global warming. While there isn't concrete proof that it is man made by any means, there is very solid evidence this planet is warming at rate much higher than normal.

[1369]

Ben Stein needs to check his facts on global warming. While there isn't concrete proof that it is man made by any means, there is very solid evidence this planet is warming at rate much higher than normal.

Venturing a little off-topic, but is the planet warming up not normal? I don't have the graphic on my computer, but I have seen a graph of ice boring logs that show that the planet has warmed and cooled in cycles for eons.

*Edit: I found this boring log from the Vostok ice core*

http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/graphics/large/2.jpg


Over the last 400,000 years the Earth's climate has been unstable, with very significant temperature changes, going from a warm climate to an ice age in as rapidly as a few decades. These rapid changes suggest that climate may be quite sensitive to internal or external climate forcings and feedbacks. As can be seen from the blue curve, temperatures have been less variable during the last 10 000 years. Based on the incomplete evidence available, it is unlikely that global mean temperatures have varied by more than 1°C in a century during this period. The information presented on this graph indicates a strong correlation between carbon dioxide content in the atmosphere and temperature. A possible scenario: anthropogenic emissions of GHGs could bring the climate to a state where it reverts to the highly unstable climate of the pre-ice age period. Rather than a linear evolution, the climate follows a non-linear path with sudden and dramatic surprises when GHG levels reach an as-yet unknown trigger point.

[MannyIsGod]

Well, maybe I'm reading your graphic wrong, but it sounds as thought that would be an argument FOR man made global warming?

[Jelly]

Some of you seem to think I am blaming Bush. I'm not. But I am saying (and I'm hardly the only one) that he should have gotten more directly involved sooner than he did. Obviously the hurricane was not his fault, and I've said plenty of times that the local and state authorities shoulder most of the blame for this.

(and please don't anyone respond by explaining state vs. federal responsiblities. I already know that and have argued that side in many threads.)

[1369]

The way I read it is that over the last 400,000 years the planet has cycled between warm and cold climates. While I admit that we probably aren't helping the matter with what we discharge into the atmosphere, our contribution pales in comparison to the natural forces at work.

[Shelly]

The way I read it is that over the last 400,000 years the planet has cycled between warm and cold climates. While I admit that we probably aren't helping the matter with what we discharge into the atmosphere, our contribution pales in comparison to the natural forces at work.

Drive through Norco, CA, Kettlemen City, CA and right over the NM border on I-10 and you'll know why there's Global Warming.

http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/images/clinical-rotations-services/dairy-cow.jpg

[MannyIsGod]

Well, it says this:



Based on the incomplete evidence available, it is unlikely that global mean temperatures have varied by more than 1°C in a century during this period. The information presented on this graph indicates a strong correlation between carbon dioxide content in the atmosphere and temperature.

And seeing as we have a rise of global mean tempature of over 1°C then I think that is more of an argument for man made global warming than anything else. The graph does show a very chaotic scene, but it is also a very long term graph.

[1369]

Drive through Norco, CA, Kettlemen City, CA and right over the NM border on I-10 and you'll know why there's Global Warming.

http://www.vet.ed.ac.uk/images/clinical-rotations-services/dairy-cow.jpg

Ah yes, the evil cow flatulence!

[Shelly]

Ah yes, the evil cow flatulence!

Damn!

Livestock such as cows, sheep, goats, camels, buffaloes, and termites release methane as well. Bacteria in the gut of the animal break down food and convert some of it to methane. When these animals belch, methane is released. In one day, a cow can emit ½ pound of methane into the air. Imagine 1.3 billion cattle each burping methane several times per minute!

[MannyIsGod]

Actually, what I stated above was incorrect. I don't think the global mean tempature has risen over 1 degree in the past century, but is forcast to increase over 1.5 degrees over the next 80 years. I thin it has gone up .5 degrees or so over the past 100 years.

[1369]

Manny, I can see where you could interpret that as a case for man-made global warming with the short term rise, but if I look at the entire historical record, I see a somewhat cyclical activity which tells me that the planet has gone through these changes before without man-made contribution.

[MannyIsGod]

Manny, I can see where you could interpret that as a case for man-made global warming with the short term rise, but if I look at the entire historical record, I see a somewhat cyclical activity which tells me that the planet has gone through these changes before without man-made contribution.
Well, I don't doubt the cyclical nature of the climate, but that doesn't mean that if you don't change the cycle you won't effect it.

Either way, I think it is pretty safe to say that a rise in GMT of more than 1 degree over the course of a century or an increase at that rate is something above normal.

[Spurminator]

Has his been posted here yet?

If not, here you go....

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistor...katrina/3342643

Tally of evacuees in Houston shelters drops dramatically
By BECKY BOWMAN and SALATHEIA BRYANT
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle HURRICANE KATRINA

The number of Katrina evacuees counted at Houston's largest shelters is dropping dramatically as people leave for new accommodations, new jobs and new lives.

According to the latest tally, considered the most reliable to date, 8,066 hurricane victims are still stranded at the three Reliant Park shelters and the downtown George R. Brown Convention Center, down from 25,400 reported just Tuesday. It's evident at a glance that evacuees have more breathing room than they did last weekend, but it's hard to track how many people are simply switching shelters, moving in with relatives or actually finding more permanent housing. In fact, it's hard to get an accurate headcount at all.

After Reliant Park imposed a curfew for the first time last night, authorities were able to do their most accurate headcount so far. But during the day, no one stands guard at the gates to ask evacuees whether they're going out for groceries or leaving for good, so even the latest numbers are fluid. People are free to pack up and go without notifying anyone, and they do just that.

"I wouldn't say there was a large exodus in the last 24 hours," said Coast Guard Lt. Joe Leonard, who's in charge of Houston's megashelters.

Although lines are shorter and no one's fighting over cots anymore, there are still plenty of people in need of help. This morning's tally of evacuees came to 2,930 in the Astrodome, down from 16,000 on Tuesday; 1,800 in the Reliant Arena, down from 4,500; 2,000 in Reliant Center, down from 2,400; and 1,336 in the George R. Brown Convention Center, down from 2,500.

Gregory Smith of the Red Cross warned that the constantly changing numbers should be regarded as "a living thing."

"People should be prepared to be flexible with these shelter figures," he said.

The opportunities to leave are growing by the day. Airlines are offering free or discounted flights to evacuees, friends and relatives are arriving to whisk them away, and today's decision by the federal government to pass out $2,000 debit cards will pay for gasoline or bus tickets that were out of reach before.

But for some of those who've arrived from New Orleans, the prospect of venturing out into Houston is intimidating.

Eighteen-year-old Marcus Poole, a community college student who worked at a rental car agency back home in Louisiana, is finding that looking for a job is no easy task in a city so sprawling. Houston's even bigger than he remembers it as a child visiting AstroWorld.

"I feel like I'm in another country, being in a city so big," he said.

Many of those who choose to stay are still trying to connect with loved ones. Still sitting on her cot with her family today, Alisha Bush, 33, is anxious to reach her 15-year-old daughter, who was taken to shelter in Arkansas. Bush thinks she has the best chance of a reunion if she stays put.

She has been in the Astrodome since last Wednesday, when the overcrowded floor forced people to sleep in the stands.

"The lines are getting shorter and shorter," Bush said. "It is clearing out."

Wanda Payton, 44, she said she was expecting to leave tomorrow for a three-bedroom house offered by a Channelview woman.

"It has died down. They are getting people out," she said.

For those who are staying for now at least, officials have turned their attention to needs like food stamps, school registration and medical care.

Local and federal authorities are finalizing a special housing subsidy "voucher" program, good for at least six months and perhaps a year, to serve 25,000 displaced families.

Meanwhile, the shelters have opened job booths and the Texas Workforce Commission and Federal Emergency Management Agency were expected to send representatives there today. The federal agency could help with a variety of services, including housing and unemployment aid.

"Our focus this week is to begin the process of re-integrating our guests," said state Rep. Rick Noriega, a CenterPoint Energy official tapped by Mayor Bill White to run the facility at the convention center.

The city's shelters were originally set up to serve as a clean environment in which evacuees could sleep.

"We're seeing, obviously, that mission shifting," said Noriega, a Texas Army National Guard officer. "We're becoming a little more service-focused."


Registering for help

Some of the help is coming from volunteers with Operation Compassion, a massive relief effort led by Interfaith Ministries for Greater Houston and spearheaded by the Second Baptist Church. The thousands of volunteers from 131 local congregations have assumed primary responsibility for feeding the masses of storm victims who have taken refuge here.

"It's blessing me probably more than it's blessing them," said volunteer Wanda Brock, 68, a member of Second Baptist Church who was dishing out barbecue Tuesday. "It's a real eye-opener to see how blessed you are when you see people who have lost so much."

At the convention center's job booth, evacuees picked up fliers and added their names to a 12-page list of people looking for jobs.

Potential employers can browse the list, and some companies also have posted jobs on another list.

East New Orleans resident Gabrielle Thomas, 30, who is living with 13 other evacuees in a friend's two-bedroom home in Sugar Land, came to the shelter seeking help to get her life back on track.

A job, she said, would be a first step.

"I can't go back there for a few months, and I need work," said Thomas, who worked as a clerk to a juvenile court judge. "I lost everything I had."

With forecasts that 400,000 to 500,000 people could lose their jobs because of the hurricane, the Labor Department has announced plans to spend up to $75 million in emergency assistance for evacuees who now are living in Texas.


The money would provide assistance to 37,500 evacuees by temporarily putting them to work providing food, clothing, shelter and other assistance to storm victims.


'I've been there, done that'

While so many people looked for jobs and permanent housing, plans to move as many as 4,000 evacuees to cruise ships in Galveston were put on hold. Many who had taken refuge in the Astrodome said they would rather stay in the stadium than move to the ships, officials said.

"I don't want to be on no water," said James Givens, 48, a longshoreman who is trying to find a place other than the Astrodome to live. "I've seen enough water to last me a long time."

When she heard about the offer to live on a cruise ship, Bobbie Williams, 44, rose from her cot, shaking her head emphatically.


"No, no, no, no more water," she said. "I don't want to see no more water. I've been there, done that. Not right now." :(

Evacuee Wallace James, 48, spent part of his day at the Social Security Administration, trying to get a check he was owed. He hopes he can use the money to move out of the Astrodome and into subsidized housing.

"If things don't work out, I'll just move on to another state," James said.

He said many Louisiana residents are trying to look forward.

"We ain't trying to talk about where we came from," he said. "We're trying to talk about where we're going."

Chronicle reporters Matt Stiles, Armando Villafranca, Jennifer Radcliffe, Monica Guzmán and the Associated Press contributed to this report.

[email protected] [email protected]

[Shelly]

http://yosemite.epa.gov/oar/globalwarming.nsf/webprintview/ClimateUncertainties.html

Uncertainties

Back Print Screen
What's Known | What's Likely | What's Unknown | Living with Uncertainty


Like many fields of scientific study, there are uncertainties associated with the science of global warming. This does not imply that all things are equally uncertain. Some aspects of the science are based on well-known physical laws and documented trends, while other aspects range from 'near certainty' to 'big unknowns.'

What's Known for Certain?
Scientists know for certain that human activities are changing the composition of Earth's atmosphere. Increasing levels of greenhouse gases, like carbon dioxide (CO2 ), in the atmosphere since pre-industrial times have been well documented. There is no doubt this atmospheric buildup of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases is largely the result of human activities.

It's well accepted by scientists that greenhouse gases trap heat in the Earth's atmosphere and tend to warm the planet. By increasing the levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, human activities are strengthening Earth's natural greenhouse effect. The key greenhouse gases emitted by human activities remain in the atmosphere for periods ranging from decades to centuries.

A warming trend of about 1°F has been recorded since the late 19th century. Warming has occurred in both the northern and southern hemispheres, and over the oceans. Confirmation of 20th-century global warming is further substantiated by melting glaciers, decreased snow cover in the northern hemisphere and even warming below ground.

What's Likely but not Certain?
Figuring out to what extent the human-induced accumulation of greenhouse gases since pre-industrial times is responsible for the global warming trend is not easy. This is because other factors, both natural and human, affect our planet's temperature. Scientific understanding of these other factors – most notably natural climatic variations, changes in the sun's energy, and the cooling effects of pollutant aerosols – remains incomplete.

Nevertheless, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) stated there was a "discernible" human influence on climate; and that the observed warming trend is "unlikely to be entirely natural in origin." In the most recent Third Assessment Report (2001), IPCC wrote "There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities."

In short, scientists think rising levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere are contributing to global warming, as would be expected; but to what extent is difficult to determine at the present time.

As atmospheric levels of greenhouse gases continue to rise, scientists estimate average global temperatures will continue to rise as a result. By how much and how fast remain uncertain. IPCC projects further global warming of 2.2-10°F (1.4-5.8°C) by the year 2100. This range results from uncertainties in greenhouse gas emissions, the possible cooling effects of atmospheric particles such as sulfates, and the climate's response to changes in the atmosphere.

The IPCC states that even the low end of this warming projection "would probably be greater than any seen in the last 10,000 years, but the actual annual to decadal changes would include considerable natural variability."

What are the Big Unknowns?
Scientists have identified that our health, agriculture, water resources, forests, wildlife and coastal areas are vulnerable to the changes that global warming may bring. But projecting what the exact impacts will be over the 21st century remains very difficult. This is especially true when one asks how a local region will be affected.

Scientists are more confident about their projections for large-scale areas (e.g., global temperature and precipitation change, average sea level rise) and less confident about the ones for small-scale areas (e.g., local temperature and precipitation changes, altered weather patterns, soil moisture changes). This is largely because the computer models used to forecast global climate change are still ill-equipped to simulate how things may change at smaller scales. [See the U.S. Climate section for more detail on climate models.]

Some of the largest uncertainties are associated with events that pose the greatest risk to human societies. IPCC cautions, "Complex systems, such as the climate system, can respond in non-linear ways and produce surprises." There is the possibility that a warmer world could lead to more frequent and intense storms, including hurricanes. Preliminary evidence suggests that, once hurricanes do form, they will be stronger if the oceans are warmer due to global warming. However, the jury is still out whether or not hurricanes and other storms will become more frequent.

More and more attention is being aimed at the possible link between El Niño events – the periodic warming of the equatorial Pacific Ocean – and global warming. Scientists are concerned that the accumulation of greenhouse gases could inject enough heat into Pacific waters such that El Niño events become more frequent and fierce. Here too, research has not advanced far enough to provide conclusive statements about how global warming will affect El Niño.

Living with Uncertainty
Like many pioneer fields of research, the current state of global warming science can't always provide definitive answers to our questions. There is certainty that human activities are rapidly adding greenhouse gases to the atmosphere, and that these gases tend to warm our planet. This is the basis for concern about global warming.

The fundamental scientific uncertainties are these: How much more warming will occur? How fast will this warming occur? And what are the potential adverse and beneficial effects? These uncertainties will be with us for some time, perhaps decades.

Global warming poses real risks. The exact nature of these risks remains uncertain. Ultimately, this is why we have to use our best judgement – guided by the current state of science – to determine what the most appropriate response to global warming should be.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I can totally understand the concern over water.

Myself and some other scuba instructors were talking about taking kids diving and teaching them how to dive, but the concensus was a lot of them would probably be too skittish for anything less than crystal clear water (which you can't find in Texas).

[Jelly]

I can totally understand the concern over water.

Myself and some other scuba instructors were talking about taking kids diving and teaching them how to dive, but the concensus was a lot of them would probably be too skittish for anything less than crystal clear water (which you can't find in Texas).


Maybe after some time has gone by, like in 6 months or so, you should reconsider this. It might help some of these kids overcome an intense fear of water that I'm sure many of them will develop.

[Vashner]

I can totally understand the concern over water.

Myself and some other scuba instructors were talking about taking kids diving and teaching them how to dive, but the concensus was a lot of them would probably be too skittish for anything less than crystal clear water (which you can't find in Texas).

Comal? Ok it's not deep but it's clear. Also rig dives off Port Aransas are clear (but scary as hell). Yea in Cozumel once we left with 12 divers and came back with 11.. they found this guys body a week later. His partner sucked.

[1369]

You want a clear dive AHF, drop some money and take the kids to Aquerina (shit, I can't spell) Springs (You can still dive there, can't you?)

[Vashner]

Ah I forgot about that place.. I wanted to dive there but they where tight ass about it (you had to be on research mission). If it's hot that water looks good...

[1369]

Not only does the water look good, but back in the day the scenery at the intersection that took you up to Pepper's where the concrete apron by the river is looked real good as well.

[Clandestino]

no politics in the hurricane katrina thread, but talk about scuba diving at aquarena springs is a-ok! hahaha

[Vashner]

They blew off the cruise ship idea... told ya it was dumb.. it would of been a living hell...

[Clandestino]

speaking of cruise ship. my gf's friend had her cruise canceled bc the ship was being used to house refugees.. didn't even get her money back. all she got was a voucher for the same cruise at a later date... bs!

[MiNuS]

They blew off the cruise ship idea... told ya it was dumb.. it would of been a living hell...
all we need is another food poisoning situation.

[JoeChalupa]

speaking of cruise ship. my gf's friend had her cruise canceled bc the ship was being used to house refugees.. didn't even get her money back. all she got was a voucher for the same cruise at a later date... bs!

We are going on a cruise next week on the 15th and we felt like lowlife's when we called to see if our cruise had been cancelled but it was not.

The wife felt uneasy about calling about our cruise while so many are suffering and struggling to get their lives back together but I told her that life goes on. I mean it didn't stop people from partying during the labor day weekend but I do admit I felt selfish too.

[Clandestino]

i met some new orleans people partying too... and yes, everyone's life can't stop.

lucky your cruise wasn't canceled. it is not everyday that people get the time off to take a vacation.

[1369]

Just got an email saying my company donated $10K to the Salvation Army for relief efforts.

Didn't know the tightwads had it in them.

[ObiwanGinobili]

Just got an email saying my company donated $10K to the Salvation Army for relief efforts.

Didn't know the tightwads had it in them.


:lol

didn't they mention it was coming out of the x-mas bonus fund???? j/k :angel

[Marklar MM]

Nah. It is coming out of their paychecks.

[2Blonde]

I don't know if anyone here subscribes to the "The Onion". Their take on the Hurricane Katrina coverage brings some much needed humor to this time of sadness. We all need things to laugh at.
http://www.theonion.com/content/index

[j-6]

speaking of cruise ship. my gf's friend had her cruise canceled bc the ship was being used to house refugees.. didn't even get her money back. all she got was a voucher for the same cruise at a later date... bs!


The Elation, the Carnival boat I was going on in December, is being used for Katrina relief purposes. We have a choice of either getting our money back or going on the Conquest for an additional $400, with no upgrades.

At least I didn't have to call to feel like an ass. They emailed me.

[CosmicCowboy]

Police Step Up Evacuation of New Orleans
Sep 07 5:04 PM US/Eastern


By SHARON COHEN
AP National Writer

NEW ORLEANS

Using friendly persuasion backed by the threat of force, police and soldiers went house to house Wednesday to try to coax the last 10,000 or so stubborn holdouts to leave storm-shattered New Orleans because of the risk of disease from the putrid, sewage-laden floodwaters.

"A large group of young armed men armed with M-16s just arrived at my door and told me that I have to leave," said Patrick McCarty, who owns several buildings and lives in one of them in the city's Lower Garden District. "While not saying they would arrest you, the inference is clear."

A frail-looking 86-year-old Anthony Charbonnet grumbled as he locked his front door and walked slowly backward down the steps of the house where he had lived since 1955.

"I haven't left my house in my life," he said as soldiers took him to a helicopter. "I don't want to leave."

Mayor C. Ray Nagin ordered law officers and the military late Tuesday to evacuate all holdouts _ by force if necessary. He warned that the combination of fetid water, fires and natural gas leaks after Hurricane Katrina made it too dangerous to stay.

In fact, the first government tests confirmed Wednesday that the amount of sewage-related bacteria in the floodwaters is at least 10 times higher than acceptable safety levels. And health officials said at least four people may have died of a waterborne bacterial infection circulating in Katrina's floodwaters.

Dr. Julie Gerberding, chief of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, warned stragglers not to even touch the water and pleaded: "If you haven't left the city yet, you must do so."

As of midday, there were no reports of anyone being removed by force. And it was not clear how the order would be carried out.

Active-military troops said they had no plans to use force. National Guard officers said they do not take orders from the mayor. And even the police said they were not ready to use force just yet. It appeared that the mere threat of force would be the first option.

"We have thousands of people who want to voluntarily evacuate at this time," Police Chief Eddie Compass said. "Once they are all out, then we'll concentrate our forces on mandatory evacuation."

Mindful of the bad publicity that could result from images of weary residents dragged out of their homes at gunpoint, Compass said that when his officers start using force, it will be the minimum amount necessary.

"If you are somebody who is 350 pounds, it will obviously take more force to move you than if you are 150 pounds," the chief said.

The stepped-up evacuation came as workers trying to get into the city to restart essential services came under sniper fire. More than 100 officers and seven armored personnel carriers captured a suspect in a housing project who had been firing on workers trying to restore cell phone towers, authorities said.

"These cell teams are getting fire on almost a daily basis, so we needed to get in here and clean this thing up," said Capt. Jeff Winn, commander of the police SWAT team. "We're putting a lot of people on the street right now and I think that we are bringing it under control. Eight days ago this was a mess. Every day is getting a little bit better."

The police chief boasted that 7,000 more military, police and other law officers on the streets had made New Orleans "probably the safest city in America right now."

Across miles of ravaged neighborhoods of clapboard houses, grand estates and housing projects, workers struggled to find and count corpses sniffed out by cadaver dogs in the 90-degree heat. The mayor has said New Orleans' death toll could reach 10,000. Already, a temporary warehouse morgue in rural St. Gabriel that had been prepared to take 1,000 bodies was being readied to handle 5,000.

The enormity of the disaster came ever-clearer in neighboring St. Bernard Parish, which was hit by a levee break that brought a wall of water up to 20 feet high. State Rep. Nita Hutter said 30 people died at a flooded nursing home in Chalmette when the staff left the elderly residents behind in their beds. And Rep. Charlie Melancon said more than 100 people died at a dockside warehouse while they waited for rescuers to ferry them to safety.

The floodwaters continued to recede, though slowly, with only 23 of the city's normal contingent of 148 pumps in operation, along with three portable pumps.

Because of the standing water, doctors were being urged to watch for diarrheal illnesses caused by such things as E. coli bacteria, certain viruses, and a type of cholera-like bacteria common along the warm Gulf Coast.

Patricia Kelly was driven out of her home by flooding in the low-lying Ninth Ward and took up residence under a tattered, dirty green-and- white-striped patio umbrella in front of an abandoned barber shop. Despite the warnings, she refused to leave.

"We're surviving every day, trying to tolerate the situation by the grace of God. He's keeping us holding on just one day at a time," she said. "I'm going to stay as long as the Lord says so. If they come with a court order, then we'll leave."

Sgt. Joseph Boarman of the Army's 82nd Airborne Division, whose soldiers helped coax people from their homes, said he could almost understand the reluctance to leave: "It's their home. You know how hard it is to leave home, no matter what condition it's in."

Dolores Devron lashed out in anger as soldiers led her and her husband, Forcell, out of their flooded home.

"There are dead babies tied to poles and they're dragging us out and leaving the dead babies. That ain't right!" she screamed, waving her arms as she was directed onto a troop carrier truck.

In the high and dry French Quarter, 48-year-old Jack Jones said he would resist if authorities tried to force him out of the home where he has lived since the 1970s.

While the streets were strewn with garbage, rotting food and downed power lines, Jones kept his block pristine, sweeping daily, spraying for mosquitoes and even pouring bleach down drains to kill germs.

Jones said the sick, the elderly and people who lack supplies should be evacuated _ but not folks like him. He has 15 cases of drinking water, a generator, canned ravioli, wine, coffee and three cartons of Marlboros.

"I've got everything I need," he said. "I just want to be left alone."

At the Superdome, which became a symbol of Katrina's misery after it was left in tatters by both the storm and some 30,000 refugees, managers said no decision has been made on whether to repair the building or tear it down.

It could cost at least $100 million to repair the stripped roof and other damage, but $500 million to $600 million to demolish the structure and start over.

Damn...those fuckers working in that nursing home would wish they had stayed and drowned if they did that to someone in my family...

[2Blonde]

It's not going to be a pretty sight when those pictures get out. They can ban all the cameras they want (I heard that's what they are doing) but the mandatory physical evacs are going to look bad on film. Even if they ar doing it for the right reasons.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

That's a good idea about Aquarena :tu I can dive there, and one of my good friends is a Ph.D marine bio candidate that spends every weekend there.

We could probably work out something to take them down there. Thanks for the idea.

[Jelly]

Pretty funny article 2Blonde. I particularly like this caption of the rescue helicopter pic..

"FEMA representatives call out to survivors, "Show us your tits for emergency rations!"

:lol :lol

[Vashner]

Pretty funny article 2Blonde. I particularly like this caption of the rescue helicopter pic..

"FEMA representatives call out to survivors, "Show us your tits for emergency rations!"

:lol :lol

That was the local police that asked .. not FEMA.. there where no FEMA people on the site at the time that occured.

Stop streching stuff.. keep it in politics if it's tin foil.

[JoeChalupa]

Between here and the political forum......

http://www.theatorrentz.org/bitbucket/smashing4zo.gif














But I love this place!

[Clandestino]

The Elation, the Carnival boat I was going on in December, is being used for Katrina relief purposes. We have a choice of either getting our money back or going on the Conquest for an additional $400, with no upgrades.

At least I didn't have to call to feel like an ass. They emailed me.

what are you choosing?

[JoeChalupa]

The Elation, the Carnival boat I was going on in December, is being used for Katrina relief purposes. We have a choice of either getting our money back or going on the Conquest for an additional $400, with no upgrades.

At least I didn't have to call to feel like an ass. They emailed me.

WTF!? We've been told the Elation is taking over for the Ecstasy.

Yeah, we did feel like an ass calling but it's not like they knew who we were.
:angel

[MannyIsGod]

speaking of cruise ship. my gf's friend had her cruise canceled bc the ship was being used to house refugees.. didn't even get her money back. all she got was a voucher for the same cruise at a later date... bs!
She should have read the fine print on the contract when she paid.

[Clandestino]

She should have read the fine print on the contract when she paid.

still bullshit...

[MannyIsGod]

still bullshit...
:lmao

It is bullshit dude. I was just pulling a Clandestino©.

[Clandestino]

:lmao

It is bullshit dude. I was just pulling a Clandestino©.

:lmao haha.. fuck you for making me spit shit on my computer. :lmao

[Kori Ellis]

fuck you for making me spit shit on my computer.

You were eating shit?

[Clandestino]

"i eat little pieces of shit like you for breakfast!"

[Jelly]

That was the local police that asked .. not FEMA.. there where no FEMA people on the site at the time that occured.

Stop streching stuff.. keep it in politics if it's tin foil.

uh..... It never occurred. The Onion is satire fool :shootme

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Sounds like one of the loote... err, um, whatever the hell Jesse Jackson wants me to call them - victims of the white man? - ended up in Utah...

http://www.sltrib.com/utah/ci_3007110

They weren't spoken up for? I'm shocked :lol

[Vashner]

What if a CAT 5 hits Aransas bay then it could be a cat 1-2 by the time it hits San Antonio..

Didn't they said that the damn in Alamo Heights could break? Or Medina dam?

[MannyIsGod]

What if a CAT 5 hits Aransas bay then it could be a cat 1-2 by the time it hits San Antonio..

Didn't they said that the damn in Alamo Heights could break? Or Medina dam?
Neither of those damns are in danger of breaking due to winds. They are too low.

At least I would imagine so.

[CharlieMac]

I don't know if anyone here subscribes to the "The Onion". Their take on the Hurricane Katrina coverage brings some much needed humor to this time of sadness. We all need things to laugh at.
http://www.theonion.com/content/index

I still subscribe to the Onion. It's huge in Madison, naturally. Their post 9/11 coverage was great.

[Jelly]

I still subscribe to the Onion. It's huge in Madison, naturally. Their post 9/11 coverage was great.

yeah, two of my favorite headlines were...

'Area Man Not Exactly Sure When To Take Down American Flags"
and
'Highjackers Surprised To Find Themselves In Hell'

:lol

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

:lol I remember the Hijackers SUrprised to Find Themselves in Hell" story.

"I was promised being fed by virgins, instead I am fed the boiling feces of traitors..."

:lmao

[Jelly]

:lol I remember the Hijackers SUrprised to Find Themselves in Hell" story.

"I was promised being fed by virgins, instead I am fed the boiling feces of traitors..."

:lmao

:lmao
Now I have to look up that article. I forgot the boiling feces part.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

WTF?

The mayor of New Orleans wants everyone out due to the hazardous water situation. Just now they had the governor on saying "well, there is no evacuation until the governor - and that would be me - says so, and I don't say there is yet."

What a fucking bitch.

[Jelly]

It's a strange (and deadly) combination to be both a control freak and an incompetent jackass. And on top of all her other BS, she publicly undermines the mayor. How the hell did this woman get into a position of leadership?
I can't wait til she gets roasted.

[Vashner]

Neither of those damns are in danger of breaking due to winds. They are too low.

At least I would imagine so.

Flood and winds... a perfect storm can drop a lot of rain... I think I did hear them talking about those 2 dams as almost busting after the last big flood.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It just cracks me up. She tried to pass the buck to the president and the feds, and now she's grandstanding saying "I'm in charge, I call the shots, everyone else can kiss my ass."

Nice touch for a "leader", don't you think?

[MannyIsGod]

The thing you have to realize, is that a slow moving storm will dump rains, but will weaken to a depression by the time it reaches San Antonio and will no thave the same sort of winds a Hurricane would.

A fast moving storm would have a chance to bring Hurricane force winds to San Antonio, but would not hang around long enough to drop enough rain for massive flooding.

So, the likelyhood of the 2 happening at once isn't very high at all.

[MannyIsGod]

I defened the governor for the first day, but fuck her. She's fucking horrible.

[Spurminator]

I just watched Real Time with Bill Maher and not one mention of the state/local failings. One of the panelists (they were all staunch liberals) attempted to bring it up and the subject was quickly changed.

Is it too much to ask that we examine failings from all levels instead of taking sides depending on one's politics? Fuck's sake, I thought Bill Maher was supposed to be nonpartisan.

[Jelly]

It just cracks me up. She tried to pass the buck to the president and the feds, and now she's grandstanding saying "I'm in charge, I call the shots, everyone else can kiss my ass."

Nice touch for a "leader", don't you think?

I was worried about that woman from her very first press conference after the storm, when it appeared her entire approach to the disaster was centered on calling for a National Day of Prayer.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

That's what you get for thinking that. Maher is a skinny Michael Moore, dude hates W.

[MannyIsGod]

That is dissapointing to hear about Bill Maher. Very. But to be fair, you probably saw last Friday's episode, where the blame was being put more on the feds than anything else.

[Jelly]

I just watched Real Time with Bill Maher and not one mention of the state/local failings. One of the panelists (they were all staunch liberals) attempted to bring it up and the subject was quickly changed.

Is it too much to ask that we examine failings from all levels instead of taking sides depending on one's politics? Fuck's sake, I thought Bill Maher was supposed to be nonpartisan.

Bill Maher non-partisan? :lmao :lmao
Bright man, but definitely flaming liberal.

[Trainwreck2100]

He's funny annoying, like one william o'reily.

[whottt]

It just cracks me up. She tried to pass the buck to the president and the feds, and now she's grandstanding saying "I'm in charge, I call the shots, everyone else can kiss my ass."

Nice touch for a "leader", don't you think?


I hope everyone is paying attention to how much power she has as Govenor...because I think 90% of America...including most of the journalists, even at FOX, don't realize it.

[MannyIsGod]

Bill Maher non-partisan? :lmao :lmao
Bright man, but definitely flaming liberal.
Being liberal does not mean you are blindly partisan.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

On a more serious note I wanted to share this story with y'all...

Flew into Houston for work yesterday evening from Dallas. There was a little girl, about 10 on the flight (Southwest). The flight originated in Lubbock, and stopped in Dallas before continuing on to Houston.

Well turns out the little girl was an evacuee from NO, got sent to a shelter up in Lubbock, and the Red Cross had figured out that her parents and two little brothers were in Houston at the 'Dome.

So Southwest picked up the tab to fly her down to Houston to reunite with her family. She was in the first seat on the plane, and the pilot asked everyone to let her get off and give her a little breathing room to meet up with the family.

An airport security guard walked her off the plane and into the terminal. When I got to the luggage claim area at Hobby her and her parents were having a very happy (and very tearful) reunion. :tu

Good stuff.

[Nbadan]

Political Forum.

What about that don't you idiots understand?

This is bullshit. The Political Forum has never been and will never be a depository for opinions that don't always jive with a minority of very vocal posters in the Club who unquestionably support W no matter how badly he fucks up. It is and has always been a place where everyone can talk about political issues more intensively than the intellectual and concentration level ever allowed in the Club.

The double standard by many posters in this forum is outrageous. Every time someone makes a obvious misinterpretation against the Mayor of NO and the Governor shouldn't Manny and his cabal be calling them out and telling those posters to take it somewhere else like he so vigilantly protects the President? Of course not.

[Nbadan]

The woman confirmed that the Louisiana state government did, in fact, deny the Red Cross access before and in the immediate aftermath.

But but but, that's not what Dan said.

But, but, but, that's exactly what DAN said, but then again given how you intentionally spin what people always say, why am I not surprised?

[travis2]

This is bullshit. The Political Forum has never been and will never be a depository for opinions that don't always jive with a minority of very vocal posters in the Club who unquestionably support W no matter how badly he fucks up. It is and has always been a place where everyone can talk about political issues more intensively than the intellectual and concentration level ever allowed in the Club.

The double standard by many posters in this forum is outrageous. Every time someone makes a obvious misinterpretation against the Mayor of NO and the Governor shouldn't Manny and his cabal be calling them out and telling those posters to take it somewhere else like he so vigilantly protects the President? Of course not.

Go back to your Liars Forum hangout, Dan. Your printed fecal material is not wanted here.

[CosmicCowboy]

On a positive note.

The numbers in our shelters are already starting to drop as evacuees hook up with family/friends for more permanent relocation. Hundreds have left already.

As pointed out in a previous post Southwest and other airlines are providing free tickets for people to use to relocate.

The Windsor Park site is planned to be closed within the next week and the remaining evacuees there moved to KUSA 171.

Obviously they still need a lot of help but it appears that the shelters soon will not have the overwhelming numbers that they have been dealing with.

There will obviously be some people permanently displaced by this tragedy. If you work for or own a company that is hiring you are encouraged to post job openings at:

http://www.twc.state.tx.us/jobs/job.html

This is the first site they use to try to place the evacuees in jobs. You have to have a WC# and a FEIN# to register. I posted a job notice there yesterday.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

But, but, but, that's exactly what DAN said, but then again given how you intentionally spin what people always say, why am I not surprised?

No it's not what you said. You said FEMA and Bush blocked the Red Cross from going in, when that is obviously not the case (the governor is still running the show).

The only thing you do better than lie and distort Dan is to change your argument as it suits you.

[j-6]

I defened the governor for the first day, but fuck her. She's fucking horrible.


Yeah, I agree. And I defended her until last Wednesday. She sucks.

[j-6]

WTF!? We've been told the Elation is taking over for the Ecstasy.

Yeah, we did feel like an ass calling but it's not like they knew who we were.
:angel


Oops. The Ecstasy is being used for Katrina relief, and the Elation is taking over the Ecstasy's cruises starting this Saturday. The Holiday and the Sensation are also chartered to MSC (Military Sealift Command).

I'd paste the email but the letter was attached in a .tif format. To answer Clandestino, we're going to call and bitch before we pony up any more money.

[ObiwanGinobili]

anyone see the governor ;ast noight on Anderson Cooper 360??

she lied, contradicted and back pedeled on herslef so many times I lost count and I'm sure that at the end of the short 3 min. interview she had no idea what she's said either.
it was freakign ridicules.

I was feeling her the 1st day or 2... but now I'm relaly hoping the shit storm hits her square on.

[travis2]

anyone see the governor ;ast noight on Anderson Cooper 360??

she lied, contradicted and back pedeled on herslef so many times I lost count and I'm sure that at the end of the short 3 min. interview she had no idea what she's said either.
it was freakign ridicules.

I was feeling her the 1st day or 2... but now I'm relaly hoping the shit storm hits her square on.

hey obi...ummmmm...you wouldn't happen to be related to ducks, would you? :lol

[Jelly]

hehehe....okay, all you guys who jumped my ass last week finally recognize what a loser this Governor is....come on just say it.... all together now...

"Jelly was right"

sorry guys. couldn't resist :lol

[j-6]

hehehe....okay, all you guys who jumped my ass last week finally recognize what a loser this Governor is....come on just say it.... all together now...

"Jelly was right"

sorry guys. couldn't resist :lol

Jesus, was I wrong about Blanco. Yeah, you were right, Jelly. Fucker. :lol

She seems to fuck up every time she opens her mouth now. Nobody, including Nagin and both Landrieu's, can get anything done without her scatter-shitting all over whatever they're trying to accomplish. I still can't believe that when Nagin ordered a mandatory evac yesterday she wouldn't commit National Guardsmen to it.

Blanco is still refusing to share authority over the Guard with the feds. She has her own state FEMA with former Clinton-era FEMA director James Lee Witt in charge, too. I think he just came aboard this weekend, though.

Blanco needs to resign and let Mitch Landrieu take over. Her, "Brownie", and Chertoff just look more and more incompetant every day.

Speaking of, what ever happened to the Admiral that was the head of Homeland Security? Or Ridge? What's the precedent for a new Cabinet-level department to go through 3-4 directors in four years?

[Jelly]

Who says we don't take of our own?

Donations to Help Victims of Hurricane Katrina Surpass $580-Million
By Niciole Lewis and Nicole Wallace

Americans have contributed at least $587-million to help victims of Hurricane Katrina.

The pace of giving is unprecedented in American history. In the 10 days after the 2001 terrorist attacks, Americans donated $239-million to charitable causes, and in the nine days after the tsunamis hit, major American relief groups raised $163-million.

Still, the contributions do not yet come close to the total amount raised in the wake of those disasters. After the 2001 terrorist attacks, charities raised more than $2.2-billion and U.S. charities have collected nearly $1.3-billion for the tsunamis.

The American Red Cross, in Washington, has raised far more than any other charity, taking in $439.5-million. By comparison, two and a half weeks after the South Asian tsunamis, the Red Cross had raised a little more than $173-million.

"It's overwhelming," says Sarah Marchetti, a spokeswoman for the Red Cross. "People are just pouring their hearts out, and making a donation is an expression of that."

The Salvation Army has raised the second-largest sum. Its national headquarters in Washington has raised $55-million, and the charity said many other local affiliates are collecting money, though it could not say how much those units had received.

Many other charities are raising smaller sums, including community foundations, United Ways, and relief groups that typically focus on humanitarian crises overseas.

Although donations came in quickly immediately after the catastrophe, some nonprofit executives worry how the economic repercussions of the hurricane will affect the overall amount of donations to the recovery effort.

"If in six months gas prices are above $4 and food prices have gone up, you could see some problems," says Matthew De Galan, chief development officer at Mercy Corps, in Portland, Ore. The group has raised $3-million for hurricane relief efforts so far.

At some charities, the pace of donations has already begun to slow.

Several days after the hurricane, Network for Good, a Vienna, Va., charity whose online giving site allows donors to contribute to any charity, processed $3-million in one day, a record for the group. But this week, the group was recording daily totals of a little more than $550,000. Network for Good has raised $10.5-million, with about 60 percent of donors steering contributions to the Red Cross.

Major Donors

Corporations have been significant donors to the charitable efforts, as have numerous celebrities and wealthy Americans. Wal-Mart has contributed the most so far, donating $17-million. The foundation created by the company's founders, the Walton family, also has donated $15-million to groups working on hurricane relief.

As of last week, more than $229-million had been donated by corporations, foundations, and wealthy individuals, according to a tally by The Chronicle.

[SpursWoman]

hehehe....okay, all you guys who jumped my ass last week finally recognize what a loser this Governor is....come on just say it.... all together now...

"Jelly was right"

sorry guys. couldn't resist :lol


I only defended her being emotional...I didn't realize the extent of her loser-ness. :fro

But you pretty much nailed that part. :)