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boutons

08-31-2005, 12:28 AM

I've read a couple articles about FEMA being rolled into Homeland Silliness. Quite a few municipal, county, and state emergency orgs seem to be very unhappy with the new situation. HS might be in for some serious criticism once the urgency of Katrina catastrophe is passed.

==================================

washingtonpost.com

Destroying FEMA

By Eric Holdeman

Tuesday, August 30, 2005; A17

SEATTLE -- In the days to come, as the nation and the people along the Gulf Coast work to cope with the disastrous aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, we will be reminded anew, how important it is to have a federal agency capable of dealing with natural catastrophes of this sort. This is an immense human tragedy, one that will work hardship on millions of people. It is beyond the capabilities of state and local government to deal with. It requires a national response.

Which makes it all the more difficult to understand why, at this moment, the country's premier agency for dealing with such events -- FEMA -- is being, in effect, systematically downgraded and all but dismantled by the Department of Homeland Security.

Apparently homeland security now consists almost entirely of protection against terrorist acts. How else to explain why the Federal Emergency Management Agency will no longer be responsible for disaster preparedness? Given our country's long record of natural disasters, how much sense does this make?

What follows is an obituary for what was once considered the preeminent example of a federal agency doing good for the American public in times of trouble, such as the present.

FEMA was born in 1979, the offspring of a number of federal agencies that had been functioning in an independent and uncoordinated manner to protect the country against natural disasters and nuclear holocaust. In its early years FEMA grew and matured, with formal programs being developed to respond to large-scale disasters and with extensive planning for what is called "continuity of government."

The creation of the federal agency encouraged states, counties and cities to convert from their civil defense organizations and also to establish emergency management agencies to do the requisite planning for disasters. Over time, a philosophy of "all-hazards disaster preparedness" was developed that sought to conserve resources by producing single plans that were applicable to many types of events.

But it was Hurricane Andrew, which hit Florida in 1992, that really energized FEMA. The year after that catastrophic storm, President Bill Clinton appointed James Lee Witt to be director of the agency. Witt was the first professional emergency manager to run the agency. Showing a serious regard for the cost of natural disasters in both economic impact and lives lost or disrupted, Witt reoriented FEMA from civil defense preparations to a focus on natural disaster preparedness and disaster mitigation. In an effort to reduce the repeated loss of property and lives every time a disaster struck, he started a disaster mitigation effort called "Project Impact." FEMA was elevated to a Cabinet-level agency, in recognition of its important responsibilities coordinating efforts across departmental and governmental lines.

Witt fought for federal funding to support the new program. At its height, only $20 million was allocated to the national effort, but it worked wonders. One of the best examples of the impact the program had here in the central Puget Sound area and in western Washington state was in protecting people at the time of the Nisqually earthquake on Feb. 28, 2001. Homes had been retrofitted for earthquakes and schools were protected from high-impact structural hazards. Those involved with Project Impact thought it ironic that the day of that quake was also the day that the then-new president chose to announce that Project Impact would be discontinued.

Indeed, the advent of the Bush administration in January 2001 signaled the beginning of the end for FEMA. The newly appointed leadership of the agency showed little interest in its work or in the missions pursued by the departed Witt. Then came the Sept. 11 attacks and the creation of the Department of Homeland Security. Soon FEMA was being absorbed into the "homeland security borg."

This year it was announced that FEMA is to "officially" lose the disaster preparedness function that it has had since its creation. The move is a death blow to an agency that was already on life support. In fact, FEMA employees have been directed not to become involved in disaster preparedness functions, since a new directorate (yet to be established) will have that mission.

FEMA will be survived by state and local emergency management offices, which are confused about how they fit into the national picture. That's because the focus of the national effort remains terrorism, even if the Department of Homeland Security still talks about "all-hazards preparedness." Those of us in the business of dealing with emergencies find ourselves with no national leadership and no mentors. We are being forced to fend for ourselves, making do with the "homeland security" mission. Our "all-hazards" approaches have been decimated by the administration's preoccupation with terrorism.

To be sure, America may well be hit by another major terrorist attack, and we must be prepared for such an event. But I can guarantee you that hurricanes like the one that ripped into Louisiana and Mississippi yesterday, along with tornadoes, earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, floods, windstorms, mudslides, power outages, fires and perhaps a pandemic flu will have to be dealt with on a weekly and daily basis throughout this country. They are coming for sure, sooner or later, even as we are, to an unconscionable degree, weakening our ability to respond to them.

The writer is director of the King County, Wash., Office of Emergency Management.

© 2005 The Washington Post Company

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 12:29 AM

Yuck...

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050831/capt.sge.dfi71.310805003227.photo00.photo.default-380x253.jpg

Damn damn damn...

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/ts/080304tropicalweathe/im:/050830/480/laeg11208302254;_ylt=Aj5.ZpUxMG1Cg7v3jWcInBViWscF; _ylu=X3oDMTA3dmhrOGVvBHNlYwNzc20-

Warning: above pic has a dead body in it, the caption's a tear jerker too. :(

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:30 AM

Here's a pic Mandy found showing an outer band of Katrina. With all the rotation evident in the clouds, its no wonder they drop so many twisters.

http://icons.wunderground.com/data/wximagenew/r/ramnmooseman/1.jpg

j-6

08-31-2005, 12:30 AM

Kori and timvp,

If you adopt a girl dog, will you name her Katrina?

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:31 AM

Almost every picture I saw today from the air had oil and other things on the surface of the water. It was flat out nasty.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:32 AM

You're right about that picture AHF. Fuck man, the poorest of the poor always take it the worst.

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 12:33 AM

Vashner

08-31-2005, 12:34 AM

New annoucement from the Mayor

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin is "very upset" that an attempt to fix the breach in the levee at the 17th Street canal has failed, and he said the challenges that the city is facing have "escalated to another level."

"The sandbagging that we had hoped would happen didn't materialize today, so the water continued to rise at that particular location," he said.

In an exclusive interview with WDSU anchor Norman Robinson, Nagin said the rising water has caused the generators to stop operating because the water got too high. Due to that, Nagin said he's been advised by the head technician at the sewage and water board that water in the east bank area of Orleans and Jefferson parishes will rise to levels equal to Lake Pontchartrain.

"It's going to rise to 3 feet above seal level. For example, St. Charles Avenue is 6 feet below sea level, there will most likely be 9 feet of water on St. Charles Avenue," Nagin said.

Also, if residents are in a part of city that is 10 feet below sea level, Nagin said the levels will probably rise to 13 feet of water.

He said the "bowl is now filling up" and the entire city will soon be underwater.

Trainwreck2100

08-31-2005, 12:35 AM

Someone was asking about the prison earlier...

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.ladp13208302050.hurricane_katrina_ladp132.jpg

Inmates sitting on the bridge with armed guards.

So the prisoners leave before everyone else???

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:36 AM

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.gfx38508302156.katrina_insurance_gfx385.jpg

Speaks for itself. Flat out amazing.

j-6

08-31-2005, 12:37 AM

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ss/events/ts/080304tropicalweathe/im:/050830/480/laeg11208302254;_ylt=Aj5.ZpUxMG1Cg7v3jWcInBViWscF; _ylu=X3oDMTA3dmhrOGVvBHNlYwNzc20-

Warning: above pic has a dead body in it, the caption's a tear jerker too. :(

Damn. That's horrible. I wonder if we're going to see mass graves for the sake of sanitation.

This is fucking sad. I can't find a better word for her.

baseline bum

08-31-2005, 12:39 AM

Amazing pic, and people thought they could ride that out *shakes head*

That was the Twin Spans bridge that goes from NO to Slidell, LA (I-10).

It was just reported on KCAL that the bridge over the Lake was destroyed in parts, as was the I-10 bridge. From the video it was obvious it was the bridge over Lake Ponchatrain.

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 12:41 AM

Looks like one oil rig didn't do so hot, this one is just off shore of Dauphin Island, MS.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.flpc10108302024.katrina_oil_flpc101.jpg

Superdome looking like an island...

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.ladp11508301953.hurricane_katrina_ladp115.jpg

T Park

08-31-2005, 12:43 AM

Just saw about the looting.

Let them have the food.

But anything other than food?? Uhhh, yeah, crack down on that.

Dont think Charles needs a freakin PS2 for free beause of a disaster.

j-6

08-31-2005, 12:44 AM

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050830/capt.sge.dfc36.300805222837.photo03.photo.default-253x380.jpg

Someone was asking about the prison earlier...

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.ladp13208302050.hurricane_katrina_ladp132.jpg

Inmates sitting on the bridge with armed guards.

Wonder where the inmates are now, and what they plan on doing about the population. Being a prison guard can't be a fun job in the first place, and having to guard that many violent people out in the open with a disaster staring you in the face only adds to the degree of difficulty.

Thanks for the photos. There's so many subplots in place here.

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 12:44 AM

Interesting baseline. The way I heard it earlier tonight, the I-10 bridge was perpendicular to the storm surge, hence it got torn up.

The Causeway bridge runs N-S and was more parallel with the storm, and received considerably less damage.

------------------

One note about the levee, the one that we all saw the pics of is NOT the problem levee that is filling the city. They showed another levee just now on CNN with a hole in it that is causing the damage, this one looks like it could be plugged fairly easily.

I'm guessing the other one is the industrial canal that they're not "as worried" about.

baseline bum

08-31-2005, 12:45 AM

Look at this shot of Gulfport... unreal.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050830/capt.sge.dfc45.300805223010.photo03.photo.default-274x380.jpg?x=248&y=345&sig=UjfURqWtKqDVtBJCQfxhZQ--

j-6

08-31-2005, 12:48 AM

Just saw about the looting.

Let them have the food.

But anything other than food?? Uhhh, yeah, crack down on that.

Dont think Charles needs a freakin PS2 for free beause of a disaster.

Like I said, fuck the looters. While they're busy plotting what to steal, others are plotting how to get the fuck out of there. This situation will take care of itself.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:48 AM

When CNN broadcast those prisoners live, I laughed because Wolf Blitzer had no idea what they were.

I saw the orange and Jess and I both knew they were prisoners right off the bat. I think Wolf finally realized what was going on when he saw the men with shotguns all over the place.

Vashner

08-31-2005, 12:49 AM

Maybe I can find a jetski real cheap in a couple months.. something beat up..

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 12:53 AM

Vashner

08-31-2005, 12:54 AM

Do you think some group of people are like holed up tonight somewhere...

protecting water and food at gunpoint.. like Night of the living dead?

Err that's "Dawn of the Dead 2004".

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 12:59 AM

There was a story about shop owners sitting outside their businesses with shotguns, FWIW.

j-6

08-31-2005, 01:04 AM

Horry For 3!

08-31-2005, 01:08 AM

Damn this thread is already to 2k+ posts.

Horry For 3!

08-31-2005, 01:08 AM

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-katrina-saints&prov=ap&type=lgns

Saints will pratice in San Antonio.

baseline bum

08-31-2005, 01:09 AM

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050830/capt.sge.dfa59.300805215435.photo01.photo.default-380x253.jpg

Horry For 3!

08-31-2005, 01:11 AM

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050830/capt.sge.dfa59.300805215435.photo01.photo.default-380x253.jpg
That has to suck.

baseline bum

08-31-2005, 01:14 AM

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.aljr60408302128.hurricane_katrina_aljr604.jpg

j-6

08-31-2005, 01:19 AM

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/083005cccawwlevac.43bb0409.html

With conditions in the hurricane-ravaged city of New Orleans rapidly deteriorating, Gov. Kathleen Blanco said Tuesday that everyone still in the city, now huddled in the Superdome and other rescue centers, needs to be evacuated.

"The situation is untenable," Blanco said, pausing to choke back tears at a news conference. "It's just heartbreaking."

The breach of two levees Tuesday meant the city was rapidly filling with water and the prospect of having power was a long time off, the governor said. She said the storm also severed a major water main, leaving the city without drinkable water.

"The goal is to bring enough supplies to sustain the people until we can establish a network to get them out," Blanco said.

FEMA is considering putting people on cruise ships, in tent cities, mobile home parks, or so-called floating dormitories, boats FEMA normally uses to house its own employees, said Coordinating Director Bill Lokey.

Lokey said he anticipated FEMA will set up a permanent office in the area.

Recovery will take so long, he said, that some workers could spend their entire career working on Katrina.

"This is the most significant natural disaster to hit the United States," Lokey said.

The devastation was enormous. One of the twin spans of Interstate 10 was broken into dozens of pieces between the pylons, stretched out across rising water like puzzle pieces. Only rooftops were visible in several neighborhoods and the occasional building was on fire. In relatively lucky neighborhoods, residents waded in the empty streets in knee-deep water.

Blanco, Lokey and others spoke to reporters after officials flew to New Orleans with FEMA director Mike Brown and other officials. They stopped at the Superdome, where Mayor Ray Nagin outlined the dire situation: hundreds, if not thousands, of people may still need rescuing from rooftops and attics, he said.

Blanco described the dedication of rescue workers who at midnight were told to take a break.

"They refused. They couldn't do it," Blanco said.

Blanco said rescuers were unable to get to people stranded, but safe, in one tall building because so many other people were "calling to them and jumping from rooftops" into the water to be rescued first.

Things were so bad, Nagin said, that rescue boats are bypassing the dead.

"We're not even dealing with dead bodies," Nagin said. "They're just pushing them on the side."

Maj. Gen. Bennett C. Landreneau, adjutant general for the Louisiana National Guard, said search and rescue teams were still picking up people throughout the city, leaving them on highway overpasses-turned-islands and on the Mississippi River levee to wait until they could be moved again.

They will eventually end up in the Superdome, where he estimated 15,000 to 20,000 people already have taken refuge and where rising water is threatening the generators.

Among the evacuees are 5,000 inmates from New Orleans and suburbs that need to be moved. Officials were trying to figure out how.

As the FEMA helicopter left, with Sen. Mary Landrieu looking out the window, a group of looters smashed a window at a convenience store off the interstate in Metairie and jumped inside.

Nagin described the looters as drug addicts ransacking drug stores and people looking for food.

Police chief Eddie Compass said police are mainly focused on search and rescue.

"We'll deal with looting afterward," Compass said. "Human life is our top priority."

Nagin confirmed one person died at the Superdome attempting to jump from one level to a lower one.

Nagin said 75 to 80 percent of the New Orleans area is flooded.

Nagin said there are two major breaks in levees -- one at Florida Avenue in New Orleans East and another on the 17th Street Canal, where two or three blocks of concrete floodwall blew out.

Engineers believe water which poured over the floodwall then curved back under it, scouring out the dirt behind the wall until it collapsed, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said.

Because of the 17th Street Canal break, Lake Pontchartrain water is pouring into the city. Nagin said the pumps that normally protect the city are working, but since they send water into the lake it does no good.

The Corps of Engineers is trying to sandbag the break but he had no timeline for their efforts.

Levees seem to be holding everywhere else, he said.

Blanco asked residents to spend Wednesday in prayer.

"That would be the best thing to calm our spirits and thank our Lord that we are survivors," she said. "Slowly, gradually, we will recover; we will survive; we will rebuild."

baseline bum

08-31-2005, 01:19 AM

You were right about the causeway, AHF. KCAL was full of shit as the video they showed and claimed was of the bridge over Ponchatrain was shown by yahoo.com and KABC to be I-10.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.ladp13008302037.hurricane_katrina_ladp130.jpg http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.ladp12708302034.hurricane_katrina_ladp127.jpg http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050830/capt.ladp11908302002.hurricane_katrina_ladp119.jpg

missmyzte

08-31-2005, 01:22 AM

Someone asked about people without jobs down there in the aftermath. I know it's going to be difficult but I'd say go vintage WPA and give anyone who wants one a job helping clean up.

Just a thought..

:tu

That's a great idea. I hope someone in power is thinking around the same lines.
That's what the company that I work for did for the employees in Florida when those tornados hit, to the best of my knowledge they're doing the same for the employees affected by Katrina.

baseline bum

08-31-2005, 01:34 AM

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050830/i/r1675016240.jpg
David Prestback of Gulfport, Mississippi splashes water on a sea-lion washed ashore by Hurricane Katrina August 30, 2005. Hurricane Katrina damaged casinos in New Orleans and along Mississippi's Gulf Coast on Monday, possibly destroying some riverboats and leaving others closed for at least several more weeks, industry officials said on Tuesday.

T Park

08-31-2005, 01:41 AM

they couldnt move the sea lion, and supposedly the Sea Lion was in a lot of pain and was suffering, so they put it down. :(

Sad...

2pac

08-31-2005, 01:53 AM

IDEA - kill two birds with one stone:

Round up all these displaced animals - cats, dogs, sea lions, looters - you name it.

Tie them from a helicopter and try to stop the levee from flowing with it.

Trainwreck2100

08-31-2005, 01:58 AM

they couldnt move the sea lion, and supposedly the Sea Lion was in a lot of pain and was suffering, so they put it down. :(

Sad...

It wasn't just 1, I heard there were six

2pac

08-31-2005, 02:05 AM

AHF - whats the deal with the AK-47s a while back?

2pac

08-31-2005, 02:12 AM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8999837/

NEW ORLEANS - Last year, university researchers conducted an experiment in which police fired 700 blank rounds in a New Orleans neighborhood in a single afternoon. No one called to report the gunfire.

SpursWoman

08-31-2005, 06:02 AM

Let me know the first time they show a non-black person "looting".

I saw several on MSNBC, FWIW. :fro

SpursWoman

08-31-2005, 06:13 AM

Did anyone besides me see the video of Wal-Mart being looted and the reporter talking to people, asking why they're looting. Then the camera man and reporter go to the shoe section and TWO FEMALE COPS have a cart full of stuff and are putting shoes in. Then they notice the cameras and one of the cops walks off with the cart and the other is questioned by the reporter.

"What are you doing here?"

"Looking for looters."

I swear to god!

We saw it.....

"WTF...the cops are looting?!?! Are they going to shoot each other??"
:lol

SpursWoman

08-31-2005, 06:20 AM

I'm planning on donating some clothes, where would I take it? Red Cross? How about canned food? Red Cross as well?

No one is taking in-kind donations at this time. They don't have the man-power or resources to collect, sort & distribute it.

I've already checked everywhere I could think of.

NameDropper

08-31-2005, 06:26 AM

Rumor has it even cops like cool sneakers.

SpursWoman

08-31-2005, 06:27 AM

samikeyp

08-31-2005, 07:12 AM

Round up all these displaced animals - cats, dogs, sea lions, looters - you name it.

if it was just the looters....im all for it.

1369

08-31-2005, 07:14 AM

Has anyone seen/heard/read whether or not the Mississippi is open to traffic?

travis2

08-31-2005, 07:56 AM

Has anyone seen/heard/read whether or not the Mississippi is open to traffic?

I think I heard last night that I-10 through southern MS is closed border to border...

In fact, I think I-10/I-12 is closed from Baton Rouge (or thereabouts) all the way to the FL border...

I think...

1369

08-31-2005, 07:58 AM

Travis, what I getting at was the river traffic (barges and the like).

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 08:02 AM

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050830/capt.sge.dfc44.300805222931.photo00.photo

hwy I90 in Miss.

spurster

08-31-2005, 08:09 AM

Hang on to your clothing donations, the Salvation Army will eventually be accepting donations for Katrina (aren't currently, but my sis - Army doc - says she's heard they will be).
Will do. Thanks for the info.

travis2

08-31-2005, 08:09 AM

Travis, what I getting at was the river traffic (barges and the like).

:oops

ummmmm....duuuuuuuhhhhhh......???

travis2

08-31-2005, 08:10 AM

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050830/capt.sge.dfc44.300805222931.photo00.photo

hwy I90 in Miss.
obi...link doesn't work...

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 08:10 AM

SW - I've actually seen alot of footage of "looters" pushing grocery carts full of actuall grocerys..... canned foods, fresh produce, diapers that kinda stuff.
There are plenty of people going for the jeans belts and purses , tv's radios etc..... but not all.

I was really upset withe one video on CNN where it was a wide shot and the 6 people in the foreground were all women who had bread, sodas, diapers, canned food, candy bars etc in thier arms.. so the camers zooms into the background and focuses on this guy and gal who are hauling a butt load of jeans and cables. :rolleyes.
now that was pure sensationalism.. iresponsible journalism.

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 08:10 AM

obi...link doesn't work...

ok. I'll host it.

batman2883

08-31-2005, 08:12 AM

damn you obiwan, damn you

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 08:17 AM

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a305/wryknow/i90miss.jpg
hwy I-90 going into Biloxi, MISS

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a305/wryknow/casbarge.jpg
Casino Barge sitting on what used to be people's houses...

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 08:17 AM

damn you obiwan, damn you

you only damn the ones you love. :angel

batman2883

08-31-2005, 08:18 AM

god dang it thats a mess, looks like my simulation of Simcity when i would have a natural disaster happen..

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 08:20 AM

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a305/wryknow/immigrants.jpg
Roommates Cristian Alcantbrb (L) from Elspluadoo, Central America and Anturo Carbonel from Peru sit on the edge of what used to be their apartment in Biloxi, Mississippi

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a305/wryknow/hardrock.jpg
The Hard Rock Cafe & Casino

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 08:22 AM

AHF - whats the deal with the AK-47s a while back?

That was on WWL last night, haven't heard anything new since then. They said two guys with AKs fired several rounds at one of the police precincts, cops fired back, they ran away in the darkness.

------------

Okay, I do need to go on a little rant. All the survivors saying "we didn't think it would be this bad, I should have listened when they said evacuate" are starting to piss me off.

You didn't think it was going to be this bad?

EVERYONE, from the mayor to the senators to the governor to the National Hurricane Center to all the news stations were predicting total obliteration.

The National Hurricane Center has nailed the path and relative destruction of every storm for the last two years (they were within 15 miles of the landfall of this one).

And you didn't think they were going to be right? People were told Saturday morning to get the hell out of dodge, but thought it wasn't going to be that bad?

The sheer idiocy of people sometimes amazes me.

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 08:26 AM

:tu glad to see the Dolphins are doing good!
(:depressed, poor sea lions.....)
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a305/wryknow/dolphins.jpg

\/Boyce Hill (2nd L) smiles as he heads to the front of Glenda's Liquor Store to pass a bottle for a customer at the front of the blown out roofless liquor store in Biloxi, Mississippi August 30, 2005. The owners decided that selling the liquor out the front window of the shop was better than moving it after they were looted on Monday when Hurricane Katrina struck.\/
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a305/wryknow/smart.jpg
now these folks are smart!

batman2883

08-31-2005, 08:28 AM

dang i would have gotten myself so many bottles of patron

SpursWoman

08-31-2005, 08:32 AM

dang i would have gotten myself so many bottles of patron

And gotten yourself dehydrated in a situation where it's already too hot and drinking water is at a premium? Not that brilliant of an idea... :spin

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 08:37 AM

Bayou La Barte, Ala. (aka forrest gump)
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a305/wryknow/gump.jpg

Woman and her 3 day old child rescued last night.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a305/wryknow/baby.jpg

this one just makes me soo sad. :(
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a305/wryknow/elderly.jpg

batman2883

08-31-2005, 08:40 AM

And gotten yourself dehydrated in a situation where it's already too hot and drinking water is at a premium? Not that brilliant of an idea... :spin

I wouldnt care, if my house was underwater i would be drunk before i got pissed

ChumpDumper

08-31-2005, 08:50 AM

New Orleans is so full that the industrial canal breach is actually draining water out of the city.

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 09:15 AM

Yep, they are also planning on blasting several levees near Lake Borgne and at the lower end of NO to drain water out.

AP says that the people at the Superdome are going to be evaced to the Astrodome.

MiNuS

08-31-2005, 09:25 AM

About the looting. It doesn't matter what the economical situation is,I would be "looting". I have no where to go,food only for 3 days-no electricity,no economical support(JOB),---you bet I WOULD BE LOOTING> to survive! It's survival now. No communication,internet.

My wife and I were seeing the news last night as many are and we thought about all the clothes we threw away last week.Had we known we could have sent it to them. We want to send money but more importantly water,canned food,etc.

Gasoline is through the roof. I am getting together with friends and neighbors and we are organizing to car pool. There are ALOT of big size SUVs in my neighborhood.Its getting to "that point" where levy is about to break.

SpursWoman

08-31-2005, 09:28 AM

re: Gas

Sunday I filled up @ $2.59
Yesterday, lunchtime - $2.69
In route to work this morning - $2.79

:fro

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 09:28 AM

damn. we should do a car pool in my neighborhood.
of course, I don't have a car to pool... but i'm a very nice person. :angel

My husabnd allready gets a ride to work everyday with 2 other guys.. they spilt gas for the week since the guy who's truck it is only uses it for work.

MiNuS

08-31-2005, 09:34 AM

MiNuS

08-31-2005, 09:37 AM

In the RGV:

yesterday regular: $2.43

today in the AM: $2.99

HEB had it at yesterdays price and there were at least 40 vehicles there.

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 09:38 AM

construction?

NorthPark lexus/subaru/lincolnmercury/mazda/something else conglamorate

Clandestino

08-31-2005, 09:41 AM

they are moving the people from the superdome to the astrodome!

T Park

08-31-2005, 09:48 AM

BTW, just heard a little while ago, don't know what cable company,

Robert F Kennedy JR, is blaming the hurricane, and all the loss of life and such on George W Bush, and his failure to sign the Keyoto treaty.

Needless to say, I respectfully disagree......

Clandestino

08-31-2005, 09:50 AM

yeah, i am looking for links too.. some guy on fox said it.

MiNuS

08-31-2005, 09:58 AM

yeah, i am looking for links too.. some guy on fox said it.
that explains it!

Bastards will use ANY and ALL catastrophic events to boost BUSH.

T Park

08-31-2005, 10:00 AM

Bastards will use ANY and ALL catastrophic events to boost BUSH.

uhhhh

it was a critical thing he said.

Now that I remember it was Tammy Bruce a noted "progressive" radio show host who said it, and said that anyone that blames the problems or results of this hurricane on the presidency, is pure "lunacy"

MiNuS

08-31-2005, 10:08 AM

uhhhh

it was a critical thing he said.

Now that I remember it was Tammy Bruce a noted "progressive" radio show host who said it, and said that anyone that blames the problems or results of this hurricane on the presidency, is pure "lunacy"

"Dead or Alive""Mission Accomplished""Weapons of Mass Destruction"

paraphrasing: 'I will leave SpursTalk if the Spurs win' (essentially turning back on Spurs and not keeping word)

I see similarities in ideology.

Bush=T Park

travis2

08-31-2005, 10:08 AM

I heard about it on the radio yesterday...

Here's the article...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20050829/cm_huffpost/006396

T Park

08-31-2005, 10:18 AM

essentially turning back on Spurs and not keeping word)

yeah the Spurs really give a shit.

Fuck you people really need to move the hell on.

Bush=T Park

Not totally.

Id have the borders totally walled off right now, Id have pushed a national sales tax abolishing the current code and the IRS , and I would have started finding where the terrorists in IRAQ are coming from, and starting bombing the shit out of those little teepees.

So not 100%.

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 10:19 AM

http://www.redfishcountry.com/albums/Katrina/Buras4.jpg

http://www.redfishcountry.com/albums/Katrina/Empire1.jpg

(Empire, suburb)

http://www.redfishcountry.com/albums/Katrina/Katrina20069.jpg
Grand Isle, LA.

---------------

In the bad news for the nation department:

WWL-TV: Gas prices expected to rise by as much as $1.10 by this weekend.

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 10:21 AM

Robert F Kennedy JR, is blaming the hurricane, and all the loss of life and such on George W Bush, and his failure to sign the Keyoto treaty.

Needless to say, I respectfully disagree......

What a dork. Even if Bush signed Kyoto, it would take decades for the changes to have any impact on global weather.

Vashner

08-31-2005, 10:25 AM

The mayor thinks the life of the people rescued yesterday was not
as important as plugging that hole?

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 10:27 AM

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 10:28 AM

KATRINA DOES NOTHING FOR THE CASE OF GLOBAL WARMING

Just wanted to get that out there. Thanks.

Extra Stout

08-31-2005, 10:28 AM

Won't they pretty much have to wait for the bowl to fill and the water to stop flowing before they can try to fix the levee breach?

And by the time that happens, isn't the city pretty much a total loss?

Extra Stout

08-31-2005, 10:30 AM

batman2883

08-31-2005, 10:30 AM

Vashner

08-31-2005, 10:39 AM

Yea they where talking about "the bowl" "the pumps" and "the big one" WAY before the Bush dynasty...

This planet has been thru many ice ages, explosions, asteriods, lava you name it before. We have a fossil record of events. Cyclones even are now showing up on mars as dust devils and of course cyclone storms on Saturn that are bigger than all of earth.

Marcus Bryant

08-31-2005, 10:47 AM

Maybe RFK Jr's papa shouldn't have offended Sirhan Sirhan or whatever the fuck his name was way back when. It's fucking awesome when some are ready to play politics while there are still bodies in the water.

Kori Ellis

08-31-2005, 10:56 AM

H-E-B is teaming up with the San Antonio Area Food Bank to bring supplies to victims of Hurricane Katrina. Customers can participate by donating products at the following H-E-B drop-off locations:

300 Olmos Drive at San Pedro
6580 FM 78 at Foster
7010 S. Zarzamora at SW Military Drive
9900 Wurzabach Road

The event happens Friday, September 2, from 6 a.m. until 7 p.m.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 10:58 AM

Props to HEB.

Kori Ellis

08-31-2005, 10:58 AM

I'm a little behind in this thread, but I realize that the racial disparity of the news coverage has been blatant...but of all the *black* people they had filmed looting, I didn't see A SINGLE ONE with a cart full of food or drinks or essentials...they were full of fishing poles and TV's purses & shoes.

I still think if they aren't hurting anyone WGAF, but some of ya'll are making it sound like those poor, persecuted black folks are getting busted for trying to feed their kids. Unless their kids have stomachs like a cow, I don't think they are eating Sony TV's.

Just FYI, I saw a long video of them last night and they were taking grocery carts of food only. It was filmed from inside a grocery store and all the looters there (black and white -- though they were mostly black) were filling up their carts with food and essentials.

Obviously that's not happening everywhere, but I'm just saying that I saw a lot of them taking food only.

Ginofan

08-31-2005, 11:00 AM

Has anyone heard about other countries stepping in to help out yet?

Kori Ellis

08-31-2005, 11:02 AM

Just got an email from my sister, she encouraged those wanting to send funds to go through the Red Cross *nationally*. If you want your $$$ to go to Katrina victims, don't donate locally, but go the national route.

No update on places to give clothes.

https://secure2.convio.net/arc/site/Donation?ACTION=SHOW_DONATION_OPTIONS&CAMPAIGN_ID=1161&JServSessionIdr010=5x76g8q7u3.app28b

Victims of Hurricane Katrina are attempting to recover from the massive storm that is still making its way across the Mid-Atlantic States. American Red Cross volunteers have been deployed to the hardest hit areas of Katrina’s destruction, supplying hundreds of thousands victims left homeless with critical necessities. By making a financial gift to Hurricane 2005 Relief, the Red Cross can provide shelter, food, counseling and other assistance to those in need.

Vashner

08-31-2005, 11:03 AM

Where is Kofi Annan?
Where are the C130's from Indonesia?
Where is the French carrier Charles De Gaul?

Johnny_Blaze_47

08-31-2005, 11:04 AM

We ran a message from FEMA in today's editorial saying that it would be better to make cash donations as that saves the organizations from having to spend money to get it all shipped to those who need it.

I would think HEB is probably going to deliver at no charge, though.

Clandestino

08-31-2005, 11:04 AM

wal-mart donated 1 million yesterday.

Clandestino

08-31-2005, 11:06 AM

on fox they are saying people are looting slot machines...

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 11:06 AM

The New Orleans International Airport has reopened to allow humanitarian flights in and out, officials said Wednesday.

samikeyp

08-31-2005, 11:06 AM

Where is Kofi Annan?
Where are the C130's from Indonesia?
Where is the French carrier Charles De Gaul?

Ain't happenin' man. We bust our asses to help others, as I believe we should in a global community, but others rarely move to help us.

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 11:07 AM

on fox they are saying people are looting slot machines...

I find this hard to believe, the casinos evacuated all the important stuff (read, money) before the storms hit.

Maybe they left money in the penny and nickel slots, but that's about it.

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 11:08 AM

Gov. Perry is giving a live news confernce right now on CNN.....

:lmao :lmao @ CNN >>> they had "Gov. Rich Perry" onthe screen under the video.... :lmao

they just fixed it while I'm posting this....

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 11:09 AM

I haven't even seen a peep of sympathy out of the UN. One more reason that P.O.S. organization needs to find some other country to leech off of.

Take the 10 billion a year that the US sinks into the upkeep of the UN building, supporting UN operations, and put it towards rebuilding NO with better drainage and pumps, along with restoration of the wetlands south of town.

Clandestino

08-31-2005, 11:09 AM

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 11:09 AM

"these are our neighbors and they are in need, and Texas will do everything in her power to help meet those needs"

:tu :tu

samikeyp

08-31-2005, 11:10 AM

I find this hard to believe, the casinos evacuated all the important stuff (read, money) before the storms hit.

Maybe they left money in the penny and nickel slots, but that's about it.

I saw a shot on MSNBC last night of a dude scooping up coins off the ground...looked up at the camera and kept on scooping.

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 11:10 AM

500 buses to bring refugees to Houston.
Rick Perry says they can stay as long as they want - even into December.
We'll be making room for them in our public schools ...etc etc.

MiNuS

08-31-2005, 11:10 AM

wal-mart donated 1 million yesterday.

after some Walmart was looted. Guns were reported stollen also.

Walmart is going to get $1 million and more from this disaster. Home Depot and Lowes should be jumping in to help,they're both going to profit inmensly.

What happenned to all those corporations that were giving MILLIONS to the TSUNAMI disaster?

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 11:11 AM

Some quotes form Steve Gregory's last email last night

There is no longer any doubt that Katrina has brought the Greatest Natural Disaster this Country has ever seen. While pure wind damage was indicative of a CAT 3 to CAT 4 hurricane -- the Storm Surge was of Catastrophic Proportions indicative of a strong CAT 5 Hurricane - but covering a distance of coastline more indicative of a Tsunami. The slower than typical forward motion of what was one of the strongest and unquestionably the largest Hurricane to ever exist in the Gulf of Mexico -- led to the generation of a storm surge beyond anyone's comprehension, or expectation. Officially, the Bay of St Louis gauge recorded a 22 foot storm surge, but several spots within the Bay visually investigated today has found the surge was up to 25 feet -- greater than Camille, which brought the greatest surge U.S. history. Unquestionably CAT 5 storm surge damage exists for almost 50 miles to the east, with CAT 4 storm surge damage reaching to Dauphin Island near the mouth of Mobile Bay -- and storm surge damage near CAT 2 intensity reaches as far away as Pensacola. No Hurricane has ever produced such a widespread area of utterly complete destruction.

The information that is coming out now about the storm is very interesting from a meteorlogical standpoint. You are now looking at the storm all future storms - untill a stronger one comes along (and one will) - will be measured against.

There are 2 known breaches of the Levee that has led to the complete flooding of the city and forced an immediate emergency evacuation of everyone still there. --(And there may soon be a third breach, along with a 'catastrophic' failure of a large area near the original levee breach.) The COE's believe that storm waves gradually eroded away 2 areas on each of the Levees, and that eventually, a whole section (1 about 400 feet long) simply gave way. This sounds quite plausible. I also understand that the Levee was built to withstand a CAT 3 Hurricane. What that really means exactly, I'm not sure. Were they referencing wind forces of CAT 3 speeds, or 'estimated storm surge' heights?

In either case, if it is true that the levee was designed to hold up in a CAT 3 storm, then whoever thought a CAT 3 'survivability' Levee was 'adequate' must not have checked with too many Meteorological experts, or for that matter, anyone alive who may recall Hurricane Camille struck as a CAT 5 just 'up the road a bit' from New Orleans, in 1969.

But more critically, it is somewhat perplexing to me that seemingly no engineers/inspectors were sent out after the storm center passed to survey the Levee system to identify if there were any 'problem spots'. It's as if they looked out the window, saw there was no flooding downtown (other than general storm sewer backup flooding) and figured 'all was well'. From an 'outsider's view' of what was going on, media reports certainly made it sound like 'all was well' -- because the storm 'missed' the city by passing 20 miles or so to the east of downtown New Orleans.

In fact, the national 'view' of what had happened was reflected by the drop in crude oil prices of $2 by Monday afternoon after hitting a record high during the early morning session while the storm was bearing down on the coast. This collective 'sigh of relief' after the storm 'missed' the city, may also explain why it took 6 hours for anyone to really notice that just 5 miles east of the downtown district, people were clinging to life on rooftops with water 15 ft deep surrounding them, and whole brick buildings had crumbled.

The city first began to experience rising water in the streets around 9PM Monday night - 12 hours after the eye had passed. And if the COE's view is correct, and that wave action gradually eroded away parts of the levee, ultimately leading to the breach -- then it's hard not to conclude that a thorough inspection of the levee earlier in the day would of detected the developing problem -- and may have enabled repairs to be made to prevent what has in fact turned into the 'worst case scenario'. To me, sitting far away, without all the information I'm sure, this does look like the levee breach may have been avoidable.

In addition to what at the moment seems like a lapse in judgment to investigate the integrity of the Levees immediately following the passage of the storm center -- no doubt made during a time of extreme stress for all involved -- there is also a legitimate engineering question of just what wind forces were experienced on the exposed Levee superstructure above the mean water level as the eye of Katrina passed to the east of the city itself.

It sounds like someone fucked up. Pretty bad. Regardless of relief, the prudent thing to do would have been to check the objects protecting you. I'm struggling to understand what exactly they were thinking.

Extra Stout

08-31-2005, 11:11 AM

I find this hard to believe, the casinos evacuated all the important stuff (read, money) before the storms hit.

Maybe they left money in the penny and nickel slots, but that's about it.The attmepting looting is in Mississippi, where the slot machines have spilled out of the wrecked casino barges among all the other debris.

It may well be that all they are collecting for their efforts are worthless tokens.

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 11:11 AM

I saw a shot on MSNBC last night of a dude scooping up coins off the ground...looked up at the camera and kept on scooping.

let 'em have it.
3 pounds of nickels ain't a lot but you know that guy is happy for it.

batman2883

08-31-2005, 11:12 AM

Soon they will all grow gills and swim underwater like Kevin Costner in Waterworld

samikeyp

08-31-2005, 11:12 AM

they looked like quarters or dollars but they were probably the tokens Stout was talking about.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 11:14 AM

Where is Kofi Annan?
Where are the C130's from Indonesia?
Where is the French carrier Charles De Gaul?
Would you help out Bill Gates if someone burned his house down? :wtf

Kori Ellis

08-31-2005, 11:16 AM

:( :(

NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (AP) -- When Xavier Bowie died in a flooded New Orleans neighborhood, his wife did the best she could in a city so preoccupied with saving the living that no one can deal with the dead.

She wrapped his body in a sheet, laid him on a makeshift bier of plywood boards, with a little help, and floated him down to the main road.

For more than an hour, Evelyn Turner waited along Rampart Street outside the French Quarter, her husband's body resting on the grassy median as car after car passed, their wakes threatening to wash over the corpse.

"This is ridiculous," Turner, 54, said as she sobbed into a dirty washcloth.

Bowie, 57, a truck driver who had been with Turner for 16 years, had advanced lung cancer and could not be easily moved. When Turner could find no one to take them out of the city, she decided to stay home and hoped the storm would spare them.

"I've got electric and stuff right now," Turner told herself. "I can keep going. I've got oxygen. I can keep going."

But Hurricane Katrina left her neighborhood under several feet of water. By Tuesday, with no phone and only a small tank of oxygen left, Turner slogged out into the streets for help.

By the time she got back, Bowie had died.

Grief-stricken, Turner walked 2 miles to a neighborhood police precinct and asked someone to come get the body. An officer told her a truck would be along.

When more than an hour passed, she started down the road again. When she got to the station this time, there were no more promises.

"There's nothing we can do right now," an officer said. "We don't have any equipment."

"So what I'm supposed to do? Sit with the body until you get somebody?" Turner asked.

"Unfortunately, yeah," the officer replied. "That's the only option I can give you. Because we have no way of getting to him."

With hundreds, if not thousands, of residents still stuck on roofs and in attics across the city, officials have concentrated on saving survivors of Katrina and floodwaters. "We're not even dealing with dead bodies," New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin said Tuesday.

When Turner got back to the corpse, she collapsed onto the plywood sheets and wept.

Curtis Miller, a former city employee, helped float the body down the road, hoping a passing military truck would pick Bowie up. He was disgusted.

"I'm hurt to my heart with this," the grizzled man said. "To see the city stoop this low. It shouldn't be, mister. It should not be."

Finally, about three hours after Bowie died, Miller flagged down a passing flatbed truck filled with downed tree limbs. After some heated words and an offer of $20, he persuaded the driver to take the body to Charity Hospital, where the police had directed them.

Turner helped load the body into the truck bed, then climbed aboard.

The truck turned and made its way into the French Quarter, where jazz bands are known to lead joyful funeral processions through the storied streets. But the streets were deserted Tuesday, and there was no music for Bowie, just the whirring of helicopter blades above.

MiNuS

08-31-2005, 11:16 AM

Would you help out Bill Gates if someone burned his house down? :wtf
Right about now there are 20,000(and growing) terrorrists in the world that are honestly believing "Allah is great" and god is on their side.

SWC Bonfire

08-31-2005, 11:17 AM

Would you help out Bill Gates if someone burned his house down? :wtf

Yes. It's called being a good neighbor. Look into it.

That's why I usually give to the salvation army - they give help regardless of socioeconomic status.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 11:17 AM

Oh, and I hope it doesn't come out that the levees were only built to withstand a cat 3 storm. Cat 5 storms are rare, and Cat 4 storms are uncommon, but neither are impossible by ANY means.

Cat 4 storms occur on a fairly regular basis, actually.

Kori Ellis

08-31-2005, 11:18 AM

Bowie, 57, a truck driver who had been with Turner for 16 years, had advanced lung cancer and could not be easily moved. When Turner could find no one to take them out of the city, she decided to stay home and hoped the storm would spare them.

People stayed for various reasons. They weren't all just "stupid". :(

samikeyp

08-31-2005, 11:18 AM

Would you help out Bill Gates if someone burned his house down?

If I was his neighbor, yes.

that was a sad story Kori. what's even sadder is that it will probably happen more.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 11:19 AM

Yes. It's called being a good neighbor. Look into it.

That's why I usually give to the salvation army - they give help regardless of socioeconomic status.
Its called being stupid. Half the world can't even feed itself, but they are supposed to run to our needs? Yeah right.

We are the richest nation in the world, we don't need the help and those of you expecting it from other countries are just being asinine.

batman2883

08-31-2005, 11:19 AM

Somehow this will be blamed on the Taliban, they have a wicked weather machine

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 11:19 AM

Oh and for the record, if Bill Gates's house was burned down, I'm not going to donate money to him. :lol

samikeyp

08-31-2005, 11:20 AM

I am not expecting it from other countries because I know it won't happen. Doesn't mean it wouldn't be nice. You are right though...we should have the resources to help our own.

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 11:21 AM

A wife's desperate journey with her husband's corpse

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a305/wryknow/story.jpg

edit:kori got there 1st.

SWC Bonfire

08-31-2005, 11:21 AM

Oh and for the record, if Bill Gates's house was burned down, I'm not going to donate money to him. :lol

So if Bill Gates showed up in your front yard, you wouldn't give him a t-shirt and a pair of shorts?

It's not about financial need. It's about need, period.

sa_butta

08-31-2005, 11:21 AM

Oh and for the record, if Bill Gates's house was burned down, I'm not going to donate money to him. :lolBesides Im sure he has more than one house. And if not he could have one built immediately.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 11:21 AM

Right about now there are 20,000(and growing) terrorrists in the world that are honestly believing "Allah is great" and god is on their side.
I love your random number of terrorists.

Anyhow, I believe the same thing will happen with some Christians using this disaster to show that God was simply taking out the sinners. Don't act like it is just an Islamic extremist thing.

Christian extremeists did it with 9/11, whats going to stop them this time?

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 11:22 AM

Carnival Cruise lines is going to work with FEMA to donate one of thier cruise ships as a floating refugee station.

Spurminator

08-31-2005, 11:23 AM

sa_butta

08-31-2005, 11:24 AM

Carnival Cruise lines is going to work with FEMA to donate one of thier cruise ships as a floating refugee station.Where are they taking them?

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 11:24 AM

So if Bill Gates showed up in your front yard, you wouldn't give him a t-shirt and a pair of shorts?

It's not about financial need. It's about need, period.
You're right, it is about need. And the need the rest of the world have is STILL greater than our need. We have enough to take care of what is going on down there. We have FEMA, most of the businesses have insurance.

Did the Tsunami victims have that?

Bill Gates wouldn't show up on my front door asking for things because he has the resources to take care of his own things.

We shouldn't expect anything from anyone.

Extra Stout

08-31-2005, 11:25 AM

It sounds like someone fucked up. Pretty bad. Regardless of relief, the prudent thing to do would have been to check the objects protecting you. I'm struggling to understand what exactly they were thinking.There was widespread awareness of the inadequacy of the levees surrounding New Orleans. I read newspaper articles about it four years ago.

The way the information was presented was that if a Cat 4 or Cat 5 hit anywhere near the city, eventually the levees would give way, there was nothing that could be done to shore them up in the meantime or stop the catastrophe once the levees were weakened, and that the city would be destroyed. It was only a matter of time. They knew this would happen.

If the United States were an autocratic country, doing the necessary projects to save the city would be straightforward. But in a democracy, you have to convince a majority of people who on average haven't got any semblance of a clue that their tax money needs to be spent on those projects.

Furthermore, Louisiana never could get its shit together even to plan for what needed to be done to protect New Orleans in the first place. The politics in that state don't operate even as well as the inefficient proceedings of the other 49. It's run more like a Third World banana republic.

sa_butta

08-31-2005, 11:26 AM

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 11:26 AM

Where are they taking them?

i'd think Houston... and then just stay there... but they havn't worked out the details yet, they are just offering thier services to FEMA.
I hope FEMA takes them up on it.

SWC Bonfire

08-31-2005, 11:30 AM

FEMA is a bureaucratic joke. They once gave someone I know $80 for "cleaning supplies." His house completely washed away.

MiNuS

08-31-2005, 11:31 AM

Carnival Cruise lines is going to work with FEMA to donate one of thier cruise ships as a floating refugee station.
as long as its in US waters otherwise and crimes will NOT be solved!

sa_butta

08-31-2005, 11:32 AM

And how are they going to determine who gets on the ship?

ChumpDumper

08-31-2005, 11:33 AM

The city first began to experience rising water in the streets around 9PM Monday night - 12 hours after the eye had passed. And if the COE's view is correct, and that wave action gradually eroded away parts of the levee, ultimately leading to the breach -- then it's hard not to conclude that a thorough inspection of the levee earlier in the day would of detected the developing problem -- and may have enabled repairs to be made to prevent what has in fact turned into the 'worst case scenario'. To me, sitting far away, without all the information I'm sure, this does look like the levee breach may have been avoidable.Sounds like a load of crap. Inspect the entire levee system around the city, formulate a plan and mobilize the manpower and resources to reinforce at least two areas of the levees on opposite sides of town -- one where flooding had already occurred?

All in a few hours?

Unlikely.

These levees may have originally been designed to survive a cat 3, but everyone knows they have sunk and deteriorated since then. The fuckup was committed far earlier than right after the eye passed through.

Kori Ellis

08-31-2005, 11:34 AM

I posted this in the Spurs forum, but here it is....

DALLAS - Mavericks coach Avery Johnson has two sisters who live in New Orleans and hasn't heard from them since the Hurricane Katrina hit Monday.

"We don't have a grip on it," Johnson said Tuesday. "I'm just asking people, obviously, to pray."

Born and raised in New Orleans, Johnson didn't want to divulge his sisters' names because he doesn't want the focus to be on his family.

"It's not just about my family," Johnson said. "It's about all of the states -- Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi.

"It's really a tough situation right now, and we're just praying that the recovery can begin as soon as possible. We're just hoping and praying that everything will be OK."

Johnson's wife, Cassandra, is also from New Orleans. The two were married there in 1991.

Johnson said most of his family and his wife's family got out of New Orleans before Hurricane Katrina made landfall early Monday.

Some are staying at Johnson's home in The Woodlands, and Donnie Nelson, the Mavs' president of basketball operations, has helped, too.

"I've got family members [staying] all around Dallas," Johnson said. "Donnie Nelson has been helping me out with some housing. I've got people all up and down Interstate 10. Some are at my house, and some are in hotels."

Johnson fears the worst for his hometown.

"They won't be able to get back in there for a couple of weeks, and I think the worst is going to happen before it gets better," he said. "But when the time comes, I want people to just open up their hearts and open up their wallets as best they can just for the people that are devastated by this storm.

"The point is, this didn't hit Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi. It hit America."

SpursWoman

08-31-2005, 11:34 AM

And how are they going to determine who gets on the ship?

Well, if they hadn't searched for weapons on those going into the Superdome.....then maybe Darwin could have figured it out.

:fro

samikeyp

08-31-2005, 11:35 AM

We shouldn't expect anything from anyone.

Good point. We should always take care of our own(meaning Americans) first.

MiNuS

08-31-2005, 11:36 AM

So if Bill Gates showed up in your front yard, you wouldn't give him a t-shirt and a pair of shorts?

It's not about financial need. It's about need, period.
sure I'd give him my website and tell him to download the latest "patch" to cover his hiney.
And then I would ask him to buy my latest creation "Micro-shorts" & "Micro-shirt" for only $300 a piece. How about them apples,Bill?

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 11:36 AM

FEMA is a bureaucratic joke. They once gave someone I know $80 for "cleaning supplies." His house completely washed away.

they offered us $1200 for a 3bd 2 bath house on 5 acres.
HA! we didn't take it.

sa_butta

08-31-2005, 11:38 AM

sa_butta

08-31-2005, 11:39 AM

Good point. We should always take care of our own(meaning Americans) first.I got to admit I hate it when we are the first to help other countries when disaster hits and yet we have our own problems here with homeless and things like that. But when the tables are turned the help is not there.

Extra Stout

08-31-2005, 11:39 AM

I think the comparisons to the tsunami are unfair at this point... This is close to home and very tragic, but the effects of the tsunami are to a degree that I don't think most people quite understand.

I'm sure donations will come pouring in over the next few weeks, but it's unlikely that they will be to the degree of the tsunami efforts. I'll wait a while until I start to judge the charitability of other nations.The death toll won't be as high as the tsunami, but it's not going to be dwarfed by it either.

Just do the math.

New Orleans has a metro population of 1.2 million. Around 80% got out. That leaves around a quarter-million people. If people aren't already dead, they will die soon if they can't get out from hunger, thirst, exposure, disease, poisoning, or the dangers of the wild. When Gov. Blanco talks about getting all the refugees out, she talks about 25,000-30,000 people. Maybe there are a couple thousand left to be rescued at best.

That's 200,000 people left. What happens to them? The loss of life here is going to be in the tens of thousands at least. The tsunami was something up to 250,000. The tsunami was bigger, but not that much bigger.

Our friends are going to help out to some degree. Tony Blair obviously is going to offer help. Other Western European nations will help out if only because their large corporations that do business along the Gulf Coast will insist upon it. China would help out if only to kiss ass with people it wants to do business with. Same with Russia.

Sure, Egypt and such won't help, but do we want them around anyway?

j-6

08-31-2005, 11:39 AM

Director Masetri of the JP Emergency offices looks like he hasn't slept for days

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 11:40 AM

well i might take a new set of clothes, some dry shoes and a couple packs of undies......you can over wear your clothes, but oyu can't over wear your undies.

samikeyp

08-31-2005, 11:40 AM

Thing that gets me is that those looters are taking things that they dont really need or cant use right now. I cant say if I was stuck there that I would not loot, but for food, clothes and things to keep me and my family alive. These fuckers are taking guns, clothes, shoes and bullshit.

Exactly....its like the guy I saw on CNN with one bottle of water but 3 Deuce McCallister jerseys. And then there are the ones who steal the stuff...then try to sell it back to others. WTF?? :wtf

sa_butta

08-31-2005, 11:41 AM

they offered us $1200 for a 3bd 2 bath house on 5 acres.
HA! we didn't take it.what happened to the house?

Hook Dem

08-31-2005, 11:45 AM

Just 3 weeks ago, I was in Biloxi.SAD!!!! http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/8629/im0020777vz.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0020777vz.jpg)http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/8712/im0020782wu.th.jpg (http://img118.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0020782wu.jpg)http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/5214/im0020830bx.th.jpg (http://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0020830bx.jpg)http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/5741/im0020841fj.th.jpg (http://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0020841fj.jpg)http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/9905/im0020853na.th.jpg (http://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0020853na.jpg)http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/5691/im0020885nm.th.jpg (http://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0020885nm.jpg)http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/7458/im0020800tv.th.jpg (http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0020800tv.jpg)

Spurminator

08-31-2005, 11:45 AM

The death toll won't be as high as the tsunami, but it's not going to be dwarfed by it either.

But do you think the diseases and other longterm effects will be as severe? A lot of the efforts in Asia were meant to attack Malaria and other extreme ecosystem changes, not just the shortterm effects.

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 11:46 AM

what happened to the house?

We re-built it.
my religion goes into disaster areas and rebuilds our own buildings and everyones houses and often times the neighbors houses too... it's all pure volunteer work, noone gets paid.
we re-did 5 of my neighbors houses too.

actually as far as I know there is still about 4 tractor trailers full of in-kind donations left over from the Houston flooding .. guess we'll be shipping that out to LA now....

Ginofan

08-31-2005, 11:46 AM

Its called being stupid. Half the world can't even feed itself, but they are supposed to run to our needs? Yeah right.

We are the richest nation in the world, we don't need the help and those of you expecting it from other countries are just being asinine.

It's stupid for other countries that are right up there in terms of powerful and wealthy to come to our aid? Canada, Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia...all those places have the means to help us. It just doesn't seem like anyone is stepping up right now.

Jelly

08-31-2005, 11:47 AM

I think the comparisons to the tsunami are unfair at this point... This is close to home and very tragic, but the effects of the tsunami are to a degree that I don't think most people quite understand.

I'm sure donations will come pouring in over the next few weeks, but it's unlikely that they will be to the degree of the tsunami efforts. I'll wait a while until I start to judge the charitability of other nations.

that's true. The donations will come pouring in (by Americans, not others), but that's the next step. Right now it's just major physical labor and rolling up sleeves that needs to be done (and is being done). One thing that I thought was a little distasteful was the way various nations turned Tsunami aid into a competition. It was like they were just throwing out new pledges every hour to 'top' the other nation and show how morally superior they were. If you read many international (especially British) message boards at the time, people got very, very petty and snide ... constantly comparing what nations gave per GDP and per capita and then calling Americans stingy compared to the rest of the world. While all these people were sniping at us for being stingy, our navy was busting ass in Indonesia and providing more actual relief than the rest of the world combined. There is always time for telethons later, but when entire populations are drowning, people need to get theirs asses over there and help out. And the thing is, most of these nations "pledges" are just that. The international community was similarly self-congratulatory over their "aid" to the victims of the Iranian earthquake in 2003, but less than 20% of that aid ever materialized.

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 11:48 AM

The city first began to experience rising water in the streets around 9PM Monday night - 12 hours after the eye had passed. And if the COE's view is correct, and that wave action gradually eroded away parts of the levee, ultimately leading to the breach -- then it's hard not to conclude that a thorough inspection of the levee earlier in the day would of detected the developing problem -- and may have enabled repairs to be made to prevent what has in fact turned into the 'worst case scenario'. To me, sitting far away, without all the information I'm sure, this does look like the levee breach may have been avoidable.

I'm just curious, how the hell do you inspect a levee that's underwater?

Send divers down in the debris field?

They said last night on the news that the water eroded the earthen base of the levee from inside the city.

Those that were around for the huge SA July 4th flood remember I think it was Medina Dam where they were talking about the same thing happening there.

There's not a whole hell of a lot they could have done about this, it's not like the area was accessible by any means other than air and jet ski. New Orleans has miles and miles of levees (the most extensive levee system in the world).

By the time anyone would have found a problem it would have been breached already.

But I just want this Monday morning QB that said this to explain how the hell you "inspect" something under 8 feet of water.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 11:48 AM

It is sad. Tremendously sad.

j-6

08-31-2005, 11:49 AM

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 11:50 AM

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 11:51 AM

To be fair, he went to great lengths to point out he didn't have all of the info. But also, you can inspect them from above as well. They may not have noticed anything, but they might have.

samikeyp

08-31-2005, 11:52 AM

I'm just curious, how the hell do you inspect a levee that's underwater?

Send divers down in the debris field?

They said last night on the news that the water eroded the earthen base of the levee from inside the city.

Those that were around for the huge SA July 4th flood remember I think it was Medina Dam where they were talking about the same thing happening there.

There's not a whole hell of a lot they could have done about this, it's not like the area was accessible by any means other than air and jet ski. New Orleans has miles and miles of levees (the most extensive levee system in the world).

By the time anyone would have found a problem it would have been breached already.

But I just want this Monday morning QB that said this to explain how the hell you "inspect" something under 8 feet of water.

Good point. My question is though, Weren't these levees checked regularly anyway to try and find a potential problem before it happens?

MiNuS

08-31-2005, 11:53 AM

Manny, I guess I could buy your argument when it comes to finances and resources.

But I haven't even seen so much as a "gee, that really sucks" out of anyone at the UN. Fuck them. It's times like these when you find out who your real friends are.

Contrast what Gov. Perry just said versus the silence from the wannabe three (Germany, France, Russia). 'Nuff said.
its sorry when the Dictator from Venezuela someone that was not so long ago threatened by Pat Robertson to be "dealt"with is the first to respond.

1369

08-31-2005, 11:58 AM

Good point. My question is though, Weren't these levees checked regularly anyway to try and find a potential problem before it happens?

One big problem is that the interior face of the levy (the side towards NO) isn't designed to retain/hold water. With all the water piling up inside the levy system, erosion and wear is going to be increased along the interior faces weakening the entire structure.

Think of it like this. You have a a pile of dirt in the shape of a wedge. Scrape the top of the wedge and you don't really do anything to it. Now, scrape dirt away from the backside of the wedge and the top will start to crumble and fall upon itself.

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 11:59 AM

But also, you can inspect them from above as well. They may not have noticed anything, but they might have

The story yesterday was that water from the lake was *over the top* of the levee, pouring in, until the point that the levee broke.

So, from above, about all they could say is the levee is underwater, and pray it at least held up (which it didn't).

And I think the Corps of Engineers pretty much knew what would happen to any of those levees with water pouring over the top - the water would erode the earthen backing of the levee until it caved.

No conspiracies, and not rocket science.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:00 PM

It's stupid for other countries that are right up there in terms of powerful and wealthy to come to our aid? Canada, Great Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia...all those places have the means to help us. It just doesn't seem like anyone is stepping up right now.
What exactly can they do right now?

You guys don't understand that our ability to react worldwide because of our military is 100 times greater than the next closest country. Britian may have the second best ability to do that during peace time, but not during an Iraq war.

If you guys don't think there will be organizations from Europe and elsewhere helping out eventually, you don't have a clue.

Also, getting them invovled would just be a cluster fuck. I'm almost sure if they offered to help the government woudl turn them away. Have you guys seen the disorganization simply between OUR OWN PEOPLE?

Throw in other people who speak different languages and don't know the area, what do you think would happen?

j-6

08-31-2005, 12:00 PM

Blanco's about to start her news conference on WWL.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:02 PM

Manny, I guess I could buy your argument when it comes to finances and resources.

But I haven't even seen so much as a "gee, that really sucks" out of anyone at the UN. Fuck them. It's times like these when you find out who your real friends are.

Contrast what Gov. Perry just said versus the silence from the wannabe three (Germany, France, Russia). 'Nuff said.
I tried looking for reponses, but I haven't seen any. I'm not convinved the heads of state haven't said anything because they might not have gotten extensive media coverage.

The world reacted incredibly after 9/11. Why woudln't they now?

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:03 PM

The story yesterday was that water from the lake was *over the top* of the levee, pouring in, until the point that the levee broke.

So, from above, about all they could say is the levee is underwater, and pray it at least held up (which it didn't).

And I think the Corps of Engineers pretty much knew what would happen to any of those levees with water pouring over the top - the water would erode the earthen backing of the levee until it caved.

No conspiracies, and not rocket science. The levees did not have water going over the top.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:04 PM

One big problem is that the interior face of the levy (the side towards NO) isn't designed to retain/hold water. With all the water piling up inside the levy system, erosion and wear is going to be increased along the interior faces weakening the entire structure.

Think of it like this. You have a a pile of dirt in the shape of a wedge. Scrape the top of the wedge and you don't really do anything to it. Now, scrape dirt away from the backside of the wedge and the top will start to crumble and fall upon itself.
Would there have been signs such as cracking to point out this was occuring?

Jelly

08-31-2005, 12:05 PM

Blanco's about to start her news conference on WWL.

you mean her Sighing, Sniffling, Shoulder Shrugging conference?

timvp

08-31-2005, 12:05 PM

1. The 'looting' angle is getting more stupid by the second. I don't know what people don't understand. These people have nothing. Before the hurricane hit, New Orleans was probably the poorest major city in the US. Now those people have lost EVERYTHING. But yet some people can sit on their freakin' couch eating potato chips and drinking soda and scoff at people for trying to survive? Buy a clue. I don't care what they are 'looting'. They are in survival mode. Imagine having nothing for a second. No where to go. The clothes on your back are the only thing you have. You haven't heard from family and friends. WTF are you going to do? Sit there and starve on the streets in your wet clothes? Hell no, you are going to do what you have to do to survive. If that means 'stealing' food or even 'stealing' clothes, TVs, valuables, whatever ... you are going to do it.

People really need some perspective. It's as if people expect them to walk to the local ATM machine, withdraw some money, order pizza and go buy some new clothes ... all the while shedding a tear for Best Buy because someone took a TV.

It's astoundingly stupid.

[/rant]

2. WTF cares what other countries give? The US will survive if it doesn't get a dime. Any gift right now will most likely come with strings attached. It's another non-issue that people are hung up on. Whatever other countries give is just a drop of water in the ocean of what the US can provide for itself.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:06 PM

you mean her Sighing, Sniffling, Shoulder Shrugging conference?
Yeah, she surely hasnt' seen enough death and destruction to let that go. Stupid governor!

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 12:07 PM

11:49 A.M. - (AP) AUSTIN, Texas -- Texas is opening its doors to hurricane refugees from neighboring Louisiana.

Texas Governor Rick Perry says he expects evacuees to start arriving within the next 24 hours at the Houston Astrodome. He says Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco asked him this morning if the Astrodome could house the 23-thousand people currently being sheltered at the Superdome in Louisiana, and he quickly agreed. He says even before the request, Texas officials had been talking about using the Astrodome as a long-term shelter for people already stranded in Texas because of the storm.

Perry says the hurricane survivors are welcome in Texas for "as long as they want to stay." Children who are sheltered at the Astrodome will be able to attend public schools in Houston. Perry says the Astrodome schedule has been cleared through December.

Ginofan

08-31-2005, 12:07 PM

What exactly can they do right now?

You guys don't understand that our ability to react worldwide because of our military is 100 times greater than the next closest country. Britian may have the second best ability to do that during peace time, but not during an Iraq war.

If you guys don't think there will be organizations from Europe and elsewhere helping out eventually, you don't have a clue.

Also, getting them invovled would just be a cluster fuck. I'm almost sure if they offered to help the government woudl turn them away. Have you guys seen the disorganization simply between OUR OWN PEOPLE?

Throw in other people who speak different languages and don't know the area, what do you think would happen?

I'm not asking for billions of dollars right now or their armies. It's just sad that no one is even saying a damn word about it. Like AHF said, not even a "gee that really sucks" statement, I'd be temporarily satisfied with even that! I was reading Jeff Masters Blog Comments last night and an American chick visiting in the UK was saying how they only put up a 2 minute story about everything and how most of the footage and information was a day old. That's pitiful, and it just fustrates me.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:08 PM

Other countries and other countries citizens will give money and aid. It always happens. But don't expect a carrier to come sailing up to the port of NO in the same manner we do. Thats ridiculous considering the context of the situation.

Spurminator

08-31-2005, 12:09 PM

Perry says the Astrodome schedule has been cleared through December.

I'm pretty sure there were, at most, 2 events scheduled to be held at the Astrodome from now until December.

The place is a dump... But it's better than being in 4 feet of water with no plumbing and A/C.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:11 PM

I'm not asking for billions of dollars right now or their armies. It's just sad that no one is even saying a damn word about it. Like AHF said, not even a "gee that really sucks" statement, I'd be temporarily satisfied with even that! I was reading Jeff Masters Blog Comments last night and an American chick visiting in the UK was saying how they only put up a 2 minute story about everything and how most of the footage and information was a day old. That's pitiful, and it just fustrates me.
How long is the story on the news here when Iran has an earthquake? How long is the story on the news here when Bangladesh has a cyclone? How long is the story in San Antonio when a building in Detroit burns down?

This is bad, but the world is still spinning!!!! People in Africa are still starving, and people in Asia are still dying, and people in Europe are still walking around stinky.

This forum has a large amount of people from Argentina and Slovenia and where have they been in this thread? Absent!

People need to realize that this is an American situation and the rest of the world doesn't care as much. Thats not sad, thats life continuing.

Jelly

08-31-2005, 12:11 PM

Yeah, she surely hasnt' seen enough death and destruction to let that go. Stupid governor!

As I said before, it is very important that leaders behave like leaders when there is a crisis going on. It is crucial. She needs to put on a brave face. She needs to be tough and strong. Not weak and uninspiring.

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 12:12 PM

DEA agent walked into abandonded bank in Gulfport with AK-47.

bank is now surrounded by cops.

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 12:12 PM

It's got carpet ;)

Manny, I don't expect a carrier sailing up. Even a bullshit "you are in our thoughts and prayers at this horrible time in your lives" would suffice.

Fuck man, Venezuela stepped up of all places.

SpursWoman

08-31-2005, 12:13 PM

Yeah, she surely hasnt' seen enough death and destruction to let that go. Stupid governor!

No shit, WTF? :wtf

She's a compassionate human being....I'd be more concerned of her abilities as a leader if she didn't GAF.

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 12:13 PM

As I said before, it is very important that leaders behave like leaders when there is a crisis going on. It is crucial. She needs to put on a brave face. She needs to be tough and strong. Not weak and uninspiring.

lets nominate:
http://jc1701.com/brentspiner_as_data_x.jpg

as the next Governor of all fucked up disaster ares.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:14 PM

Not to minimize this event, but to be real in the grand scheme of things this event isn't that large to the world.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:15 PM

As I said before, it is very important that leaders behave like leaders when there is a crisis going on. It is crucial. She needs to put on a brave face. She needs to be tough and strong. Not weak and uninspiring.
Your interpriation of uninspiring is another's view of humanity. The fact that she's still going is strong enough for me.

SpursWoman

08-31-2005, 12:16 PM

I'm pretty sure there were, at most, 2 events scheduled to be held at the Astrodome from now until December.

The place is a dump... But it's better than being in 4 feet of water with no plumbing and A/C.

Dump or not, hopefully some that decide to stay will be able to find jobs in or around Houston and be able to move on....

Extra Stout

08-31-2005, 12:17 PM

I'm not asking for billions of dollars right now or their armies. It's just sad that no one is even saying a damn word about it. Like AHF said, not even a "gee that really sucks" statement, I'd be temporarily satisfied with even that! I was reading Jeff Masters Blog Comments last night and an American chick visiting in the UK was saying how they only put up a 2 minute story about everything and how most of the footage and information was a day old. That's pitiful, and it just fustrates me.
I doubt the world comprehends the scope of the disaster yet. The official death toll right now is only about 100, which is bad, but not a global calamity.

When the official death toll starts rocketing past 10,000 or 20,000, and it's reported that there are over 1 million homeless refugees, you'll see a response.

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 12:18 PM

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 12:18 PM

this is good news, realativly, the water is not rising. :tu

Johnny_Blaze_47

08-31-2005, 12:19 PM

As I said before, it is very important that leaders behave like leaders when there is a crisis going on. It is crucial. She needs to put on a brave face. She needs to be tough and strong. Not weak and uninspiring.

Yes, because when somethinng bad happens to me, I know I look to Rick Perry for support.

She's human. She's trying to save the people who asked her to be their leader and I would be very skeptical of somebody who couldn't show emotion at a time like this.

People are always bitching that their politicians don't really know who they are and couldn't possibly relate to the problems normal folk go through, well guess what, they're all going through this.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:19 PM

Oh, and I wonder when the last time some of these people slept was, as well.

Johnny_Blaze_47

08-31-2005, 12:20 PM

Friday, maybe?

j-6

08-31-2005, 12:20 PM

you mean her Sighing, Sniffling, Shoulder Shrugging conference?

You need to cut her some slack. Everyone deals with crises differently...even elected officials. If your comparing her demeanor to Bush's after 9-11, you're a fool. Katrina hit the largest, most populous city in her state and absolutely obliterated it. Not just part of the city, all of the city. Maybe she's thinking of her six children, or her seven grandkids. Or her friends and family that haven't been heard from. Or her constituents, people that voted her into office, resorting to barbaric tactics to survive. Maybe she sees bodies floating around and she wonders if they were parents, or teachers, or just plain friends to others.

Let me say this: For those of you that haven't been keeping track of events here (and Jelly, I ain't picking on you), this is the worst disaster in US history. If Kathleen Blanco is a little melancholy, I don't blame her.

At least the president had someone to blame for 9-11. It's pretty tough to muster hatred for Mother Nature.

Ginofan

08-31-2005, 12:21 PM

How long is the story on the news here when Iran has an earthquake? How long is the story on the news here when Bangladesh has a cyclone? How long is the story in San Antonio when a building in Detroit burns down?

This is bad, but the world is still spinning!!!! People in Africa are still starving, and people in Asia are still dying, and people in Europe are still walking around stinky.

This forum has a large amount of people from Argentina and Slovenia and where have they been in this thread? Absent!

People need to realize that this is an American situation and the rest of the world doesn't care as much. Thats not sad, thats life continuing.

Come on Manny, I'll give you the cyclone and earthquake but the building burning in Detroit? That's hardly comparable to what's going on in LA, MI, and AL.

Alright, I give up then. If we are just supposed to accept that the world doesn't care about us, fuck it. Fuck the sympathy and saddness I felt for those involved in the London bombings. Screw the rest of the world.

j-6

08-31-2005, 12:23 PM

Mary Landrieu, probably the most connected politician in Louisiana, just located her parents. Average Joes are probably a lot worse off.

Jelly, you reading along?

Jelly

08-31-2005, 12:27 PM

lets nominate:
http://jc1701.com/brentspiner_as_data_x.jpg

as the next Governor of all fucked up disaster ares.

No, we don't need an android. We need a Rudy Guiliani or a Winston Churchill.
It is imperative that people feel there is strong leadership right now. This woman is anything but. Yes, she is in the midst of tragedy, but governors do not have the luxury of falling to pieces in front of their people.

And you guys are just cutting her slack because she's a woman.

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 12:28 PM

12:15 P.M. - Army Corps: 1,200 sandbags that are 20,000 pounds each are being brought in to bridge gap...water level is no longer rising.

12:11 P.M. - Army Corps: Water has become level with the Lake in the city so no more water should flow into the city, except at high tide.

12:10 P.M. - Engineers and construction experts are at the 17th Street Canal. They've filled 100, 3,000 pound sandbags and are trying to drop the bags and concrete barriers into the area.

SpursWoman

08-31-2005, 12:28 PM

And you guys are just cutting her slack because she's a woman.

No, we're cutting her some slack because she's a human being.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:28 PM

Come on Manny, I'll give you the cyclone and earthquake but the building burning in Detroit? That's hardly comparable to what's going on in LA, MI, and AL.

Alright, I give up then. If we are just supposed to accept that the world doesn't care about us, fuck it. Fuck the sympathy and saddness I felt for those involved in the London bombings. Screw the rest of the world.
Relax, Cracka.

I'm sure the rest of the world would care if they realized what was going on. There are 6 billion people out there, and they have hearts. But expecting anything from them is ridiculous. OUR OWN GOVERNMENT, is just now being able to react. Everything up to now has been on the state and local level.

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 12:30 PM

So it looks like the COE plan was: "let the water equalize, then we'll block it off and start pumping out water.

Well, that is one way of going about it :lol

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:31 PM

No, we don't need an android. We need a Rudy Guiliani or a Winston Churchill.
It is imperative that people feel there is strong leadership right now. This woman is anything but. Yes, she is in the midst of tragedy, but governors do not have the luxury of falling to pieces in front of their people.

And you guys are just cutting her slack because she's a woman.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

I KNEW you were going to say that. I guess we're just cutting the crying mayor some slack too because he is a woman as well.

Give me a fucking break already. Maybe some people here are just willing to cut people who have been through hell a bit more slack.

Last time I checked, Rudy wasn't in the towers when they collapsed, and Churchill wasn't on the battle front leading his men.

She, however, went through a hurricane, and IS on the front lines.

samikeyp

08-31-2005, 12:31 PM

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:32 PM

So it looks like the COE plan was: "let the water equalize, then we'll block it off and start pumping out water.

Well, that is one way of going about it :lol
After it broke, thats probably all they could do. Hell, thats probably all they could do all along. Water is a bitch.

Jelly

08-31-2005, 12:32 PM

Mary Landrieu, probably the most connected politician in Louisiana, just located her parents. Average Joes are probably a lot worse off.

Jelly, you reading along?

What the hell are you talking about? I don't need to be reading along to your posts to stay informed. How dare you imply that I care less than you or anyone else on this board. I am aware and heartbroken of the catastrophic conditions happening right now. That is why I think it is so imperative for the government to be strong for the people.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:33 PM

I get the food angle and I could even understand the clothes angle, but TV's? Computers? What the fuck are you going to do with a computer when you are sitting in a shelter or sitting on a highway trying to stay dry. To me, and this is just what I would do. Staying dry and finding food would be my first and only priority. A tv and a computer will keep you from being bored but they won't keep you alive
Not without power they won't. :lol

I guess the only thing I can say about that is these people have lived in poverty probably most of their lives, and now see a way of screwing 'the man'. I agree, it is stupid, but I see why they would do that.

Not like any of that shit is going to work after being wet anyway.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:34 PM

What the hell are you talking about? I don't need to be reading along to your posts to stay informed. How dare you imply that I care less than you or anyone else on this board. I am aware and heartbroken of the catastrophic conditions happening right now. That is why I think it is so imperative for the government to be strong for the people.
Except that the government is made up of the people themselves.

You should never expect something out of someone you can't do yourself, so...

How do you think YOU would react in her shoes Jelly?

samikeyp

08-31-2005, 12:35 PM

Not without power they won't. :lol

exactly. :)

j-6

08-31-2005, 12:35 PM

What the hell are you talking about? I don't need to be reading along to your posts to stay informed. How dare you imply that I care less than you or anyone else on this board. I am aware and heartbroken of the catastrophic conditions happening right now. That is why I think it is so imperative for the government to be strong for the people.

:rolleyes

If you were heartbroken, you would understand what Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin are going through. Instead you're blasting them for showing weakness.

Extra Stout

08-31-2005, 12:36 PM

People need to realize that this is an American situation and the rest of the world doesn't care as much. Thats not sad, thats life continuing.

Right now, I can cut the world some slack because I don't think even most Americans comprehend what is happening. Right now, they think it's a strong hurricane and a bad flooding problem. They don't understand that this is a disaster of biblical proportions.

The concept of the entire coastline of a state being obliterated is too much for people to comprehend all at once, much less the complete ruin of a major American city in an adjacent state with the concomitant deaths. If I weren't watching it unfold, I would hardly believe it.

People get numb to the pictures. The Mississippi River flooded suburban St. Louis in 1992, and Allison flooded Houston in 2001. It was bad, there were shocking pictures, people lost homes, rebuilt, moved on. In 2004, hurricanes hit Florida, things got smashed, some people died, everyone is rebuilding, moving on.

I don't think a lot of people understand yet that this is different, very, very different. It's going to take a while to sink in.

Jelly

08-31-2005, 12:37 PM

http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

Last time I checked, Rudy wasn't in the towers when they collapsed, and Churchill wasn't on the battle front leading his men.

She, however, went through a hurricane, and IS on the front lines.

Oh please. It's not as if she was in line at the Superdome or standing on the roof of her fucking house. Yes, she is in the midst of a disaster. As was Guiliani. Neither one gets points for suffering more. But Guiliani gets points for pulling himself together.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:39 PM

Oh please. It's not as if she was in line at the Superdome or standing on the roof of her fucking house. Yes, she is in the midst of a disaster. As was Guiliani. Neither one gets points for suffering more. But Guiliani gets points for pulling himself together.
Guiliana sure did look scared going down that Manhattan street. Bastard!

Jelly, you're being too hard on her. But whatever floats your heartbroken boat.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:40 PM

Right now, I can cut the world some slack because I don't think even most Americans comprehend what is happening. Right now, they think it's a strong hurricane and a bad flooding problem. They don't understand that this is a disaster of biblical proportions.

The concept of the entire coastline of a state being obliterated is too much for people to comprehend all at once, much less the complete ruin of a major American city in an adjacent state with the concomitant deaths. If I weren't watching it unfold, I would hardly believe it.

People get numb to the pictures. The Mississippi River flooded suburban St. Louis in 1992, and Allison flooded Houston in 2001. It was bad, there were shocking pictures, people lost homes, rebuilt, moved on. In 2004, hurricanes hit Florida, things got smashed, some people died, everyone is rebuilding, moving on.

I don't think a lot of people understand yet that this is different, very, very different. It's going to take a while to sink in.
Good post.

Jelly

08-31-2005, 12:42 PM

Except that the government is made up of the people themselves.

You should never expect something out of someone you can't do yourself, so...

How do you think YOU would react in her shoes Jelly?

I would be a useless, crying mess in that situation. That's why I would never pursue a position of Governor. Heck, I wouldn't even make a good mayor. These jobs should be held only by people who possess extraordinary strength, stamina, and leadership abilities. Because those characteristics are crucial in these times. Average Janes and Joes need not apply.

Jelly

08-31-2005, 12:44 PM

Guiliana sure did look scared going down that Manhattan street. Bastard!

Jelly, you're being too hard on her. But whatever floats your heartbroken boat.

perhaps. but I can see that I'm not going to convince anyone of her meekness, so I'll put this to rest.

ChumpDumper

08-31-2005, 12:45 PM

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 12:49 PM

EPA announcing they are temporarily removing standards for gasoline and deisal fuel.
effective unitll Sept 15th 2005.
applies to violability standards and sulphr in diesal standards.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:50 PM

About the international response -- did you remember seeing or hearing much about the floods in Bangladesh in 88, 98 and 02? I didn't. Hell, just last year about 800 died in flooding in India and Bangladesh -- I may have seen one 30 second spot and a few pictures of their submerged capital (40% of a city of 10 million was underwater then).

It's a big world.
Back in 02 I was on a Blangledesh(ian?) basketball message board and most of them were pissed that we didn't have 24 hour news coverage in this country. I tried to calm them down, but it was fruitless.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:50 PM

EPA announcing they are temporarily removing standards for gasoline and deisal fuel.
effective unitll Sept 15th 2005.
applies to violability standards and sulphr in diesal standards.
I don't understand what tha means, but if they are going to allow fuel to be sold that isn't as clean, they better not fucking hold our city accountable if we don't have clean air.

SWC Bonfire

08-31-2005, 12:52 PM

I'd be more concerned about other crap in the diesel. Diesels MUST have clean fuel to operate.

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 12:52 PM

I don't understand what tha means, but if they are going to allow fuel to be sold that isn't as clean, they better not fucking hold our city accountable if we don't have clean air.

it's just for LA, Ala, Miss and FLA.

j-6

08-31-2005, 12:52 PM

I would be a useless, crying mess in that situation. That's why I would never pursue a position of Governor. Heck, I wouldn't even make a good mayor. These jobs should be held only by people who possess extraordinary strength, stamina, and leadership abilities. Because those characteristics are crucial in these times. Average Janes and Joes need not apply.

OK, that at least made a little sense. I'd guess a 60-something grandmother would be allowed to display her dismay a little. This size and scope of this event might have made her want to just fuck her public appearance and deal with things the best way she can. And it's not her fault she doesn't have the strength of Rudy or Churchill. I know I said this earlier, but I feel a lot better having her run things in a disaster than the 32 year old guy with only five years of workforce experience she defeated.

I don't know how many orders of magnitude bigger of a disaster Katrina is than 9-11. It's probably unfair to both events to compare them.

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 12:52 PM

Dept. Of Trans announcing they are waiving rules for truckers driving hours.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:53 PM

it's just for LA, Ala, Miss and FLA.
I see.

SWC Bonfire

08-31-2005, 12:53 PM

would be a useless, crying mess in that situation. That's why I would never pursue a position of Governor. Heck, I wouldn't even make a good mayor. These jobs should be held only by people who possess extraordinary strength, stamina, and leadership abilities. Because those characteristics are crucial in these times. Average Janes and Joes need not apply.

Leaders can be made in rough times.

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 12:54 PM

I'd be more concerned about other crap in the diesel. Diesels MUST have clean fuel to operate.

apparently they are just waiving the standards for SULPHER in diesel (emissions)... not gunk or anything

Aggie Hoopsfan

08-31-2005, 12:54 PM

TV's? Computers? What the fuck are you going to do with a computer when you are sitting in a shelter or sitting on a highway trying to stay dry.

Barter? Well, that's the righteous/smart part of me talking, but I think a lot of these folks are just going the "fuck society" route on this.

EPA announcing they are temporarily removing standards for gasoline and deisal fuel.
effective unitll Sept 15th 2005.
applies to violability standards and sulphr in diesal standards.

Great, so now it will still cost $3.00 a gallon to gas up and the gas will be fvcking up my truck.

After it broke, thats probably all they could do. Hell, thats probably all they could do all along. Water is a bitch.

True, I think it was pretty obvious seeing that gaping gap in the levee that there wasn't anything they could do about it. That's why when people rag on them for not getting the sandbags in there and instead going and rescueing people (like they were doing yesterday evening), I laugh. It's pretty obvious that with NO in the shape it's in there was no way of faciliting resources and materials necessary to close that thing in time.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:54 PM

Dept. Of Trans announcing they are waiving rules for truckers driving hours.
Probably not very smart. I worked dispatching truckers, and some of those fuckers would lie to me as it was regarding their hours. A tired driver is a very fucking dangerous driver.

j-6

08-31-2005, 12:55 PM

Blanco thinks the ACoE dropped the ball on the levee situation.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:56 PM

12:52 A.M. - Governor Blanco: We will rebuild.

12:51 A.M. - Governor Blanco: The magnitude of this is overwhelming.

SWC Bonfire

08-31-2005, 12:56 PM

apparently they are just waiving the standards for SULPHER in diesel (emissions)... not gunk or anything

Yes, I read that. What that means is that they can sell high-SULFUR :lol diesel for use in tractors and off-road use to motorists and truckers to keep the supply up.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 12:58 PM

2 things that are really petty off topic....

WWLTV needs to win some awards for their coverage. Its been outstanding. From the blog they are running, to their on air/live feed coverage. It's been awesome.

Secondly, how much traffic goes up and down the Mississippi? With the river being closed, how much shipping is having to be done other ways?

SWC Bonfire

08-31-2005, 12:58 PM

Blanco thinks the ACoE dropped the ball on the levee situation.

The Army Corps of Engineers are a bunch of fuckups who deal in politics more than actual engineering.

Jelly

08-31-2005, 12:59 PM

Blanco thinks the ACoE dropped the ball on the levee situation.

this is not the time for her and the mayor to be pointing fingers...especially publicly.

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 01:00 PM

high-SULFUR :lol diesel

i knew you'd like that. :angel

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 01:00 PM

Well, if nothing else, the ACoE really fucked with the initial levee design to begin with. Making levees that only withstand a cat 3 beating is like making a airbag that only deploys if you're going below 30mph.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 01:01 PM

this is not the time for her and the mayor to be pointing fingers...especially publicly.
That I agree with.

Jelly

08-31-2005, 01:02 PM

Well, if nothing else, the ACoE really fucked with the initial levy design to begin with. Making levees that only withstand a cat 3 beating is like making a airbag that only deploys if you're going below 30mph.

I'm sure they designed around whatever budget was being provided. All this probably comes down to the community, government, taxpayers et al. not wanting to spend the money.

j-6

08-31-2005, 01:02 PM

2 things that are really petty off topic....

WWLTV needs to win some awards for their coverage. Its been outstanding. From the blog they are running, to their on air/live feed coverage. It's been awesome.

WWL is badass. I read up on them last night, and they've got a pretty impressive resume. Here's the link.

http://www.wwltv.com/aboutus/aboutus.html

I bet I've forwarded their feed site to fifty people.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 01:03 PM

I found their feed on Saturday whlie surfing weather blogs. Great shit.

ObiwanGinobili

08-31-2005, 01:03 PM

2 things that are really petty off topic....

Secondly, how much traffic goes up and down the Mississippi? With the river being closed, how much shipping is having to be done other ways?

as far as i know - a shit load.

grains and all other things we export come down that river from the mid-west.
car parts..
even stuff from canada.
and then imported stuff like cars and what not go up the river.

SWC Bonfire

08-31-2005, 01:03 PM

Well, as much as I hate to defend the corps of engineers, the levies were designed for a certain amount of water. Whether that correlated with the amound of storm surge and rainfall within a certain strength storm, who knows. But the design of the levies wasn't based on or limited by wind loads, like hurricanes are classified by.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 01:03 PM

12:56 A.M. - Governor Blanco - Time is not on our side for stopping the levee break. There were two breaches, when we thought there was only one. Communicatiion, or lack of same caused the problem.

12:55 A.M. - MIAMI (AP) -- Miami-based Carnival Cruise Lines says it is considering a federal request that the company use some of its cruise ships as emergency shelters or help in Hurricane Katrina relief efforts in some other way.

12:53 A.M. - Governor Blanco - thousands still need to be rescued.

Extra Stout

08-31-2005, 01:04 PM

Secondly, how much traffic goes up and down the Mississippi? With the river being closed, how much shipping is having to be done other ways?25% of all cargo transport in the United States of America goes up and down the Mississippi. Our economy is seriously fucked until it can be reopened to barge traffic.

Stock up on canned food, kerosene, and seed.

Extra Stout

08-31-2005, 01:04 PM

Also, repent.

j-6

08-31-2005, 01:04 PM

this is not the time for her and the mayor to be pointing fingers...especially publicly.

She didn't want to comment, initially. When prodded a little bit by the reporter she said that to say she was disappointed would be a huge understatement.

Manny, that sound right?

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 01:05 PM

SWC Bonfire

08-31-2005, 01:05 PM

Well, don't be surprized if they demolish impediments to barge traffic in the next couple of days.

MannyIsGod

08-31-2005, 01:06 PM

25% of all cargo transport in the United States of America goes up and down the Mississippi. Our economy is seriously fucked until it can be reopened to barge traffic.

Stock up on canned food, kerosene, and seed.
Son of a bitch. And thats now shipping htat has to be done in ways that involve gasoline, which will on exacerbate the problem.

Jelly

08-31-2005, 01:06 PM

um...there is no time for Carnival to be "considering a request". Geez, just do it.