Jimmer Fredette to the Spurs (Update: Mostly Non-Guaranteed Training Camp Deal)

[apalisoc_9]

Green is averaging 6ppg 2 rpg on 30 percent in 20 mpg. He needs to score this year. He needs to rebound this year. He needs to shoot well this year.

Green was good defensively.

Green is a streaky shooter..he will make some and not make some. Just need to learn where to pass the ball and so on.

Not sure what your even asking for him....

[apalisoc_9]

Meh...it's one game.

The amount of games jimmer will be playing in a spurs uniform.

[apalisoc_9]

He's been ok... his shot is just not falling. The only disappointing thing with him is that he doesn't seem to have improved in the handles department.

But I mean, after the household discount he gave us, just being the same ol' Danny Green should work just fine.

Handles is not something you can really improve that much in adulthood.

I cringe everytime people asks him to improve his dribble. He's never going to dribble differerntly.

[ElNono]

Handles is not something you can really improve that much in adulthood.

I cringe everytime people asks him to improve his dribble. He's never going to dribble differerntly.

It can be worked on, tbh.... also, with age, you get wiser about your own limitations... you might not improve leaps and bounds, but you can learn to minimize mistakes.

[hater]

It's sad when the best game of his life is when he didn't play at all :lmao

[apalisoc_9]

It can be worked on, tbh.... also, with age, you get wiser about your own limitations... you might not improve leaps and bounds, but you can learn to minimize mistakes.

With Green it's really knowing when to dribble and when not to. He tends to force things at time and tries to play a dribble game that usually results in turnovers...Knowing his limitations just like you said, but thats more about really improving in terms of understanding his own game rather than an improvement in the handles department.

he might improve his dribble when he faking and going for a dribble shoot but it's never going to go beyond that. You're set ball handling is set when you're in your mid 20's...

[ElNono]

With Green it's really knowing when to dribble and when not to. He tends to force things at time and tries to play a dribble game that usually results in turnovers...Knowing his limitations just like you said, but thats more about really improving in terms of understanding his own game rather than an improvement in the handles department.

he might improve his dribble when he faking and going for a dribble shoot but it's never going to go beyond that. You're set ball handling is set when you're in your mid 20's...

Well, that's what I mean... "I can make this pass" vs "I can't make this pass, let's do something else"... "I can dribble through here" vs "It's risky"

it's not really improving his handles, but it's basically hiding it, which works just as well...

[SAGirl]

Well, that's what I mean... "I can make this pass" vs "I can't make this pass, let's do something else"... "I can dribble through here" vs "It's risky"

it's not really improving his handles, but it's basically hiding it, which works just as well... what do you think about Simms age / handles?

[apalisoc_9]

Well, that's what I mean... "I can make this pass" vs "I can't make this pass, let's do something else"... "I can dribble through here" vs "It's risky"

it's not really improving his handles, but it's basically hiding it, which works just as well...

yeah...I made the cringe comment because there's still people in this board that think he can improve his handles to a point that he can change the way he dribbles when he drives. his dribbling is really the biggest reason why he's bad making layups too....he needs to figure out a way to dribble twice max on drive..but that would probably require large steps and knowing how to float the ball to the basket.

[ElNono]

what do you think about Simms age / handles?

I thought he was horrible penetrating this game... I see what Chinook was saying about that. That said, I thought he created well, including that drive and dish for TD's dunk and the reggie corner 3 at the end...

Neither him or KA are really playing like in the SL, where they could be "the man", and take over for stretches... some of that makes sense, but when the scrubs were all in, I thought they would take over and did not.

[SAGirl]

yeah...I made the cringe comment because there's still people in this board that think he can improve his handles to a point that he can change the way he dribbles when he drives. his dribbling is really the biggest reason why he's bad making layups too....he needs to figure out a way to dribble twice max on drive..but that would probably require large steps and knowing how to float the ball to the basket.
I am not sure if he can improve it, but I have been saying for some time that if is worrisome bc his game depends on him making plays off the dribble and he had trouble with that even in the dleague. I do wish he can improve them bc he really is a nice passer and team guy and he has potential on defense due to his size and athleticism, but I doubt his handles.

[SAGirl]

I thought he was horrible penetrating this game... I see what Chinook was saying about that. That said, I thought he created well, including that drive and dish for TD's dunk and the reggie corner 3 at the end...

Neither him or KA are really playing like in the SL, where they could be "the man", and take over for stretches... some of that makes sense, but when the scrubs were all in, I thought they would take over and did not.
Kyle and Simms had no trouble fitting in next to each other with each having chances to do their thing and set each other up, but they also played nearly 30 games together in the dleague.

Fit with Manu hopefully will develop, but they are also adjusting to the real crazy size and athleticism in the NBA. Kyle specially is young and rookish enough that he's still developing, bc of his as age. Though Simms is more athletic I doubt he can develop more, thus the handles question. He's likely more limited, but NBA is also new to him as well.

[apalisoc_9]

I am not sure if he can improve it, but I have been saying for some time that if is worrisome bc his game depends on him making plays off the dribble and he had trouble with that even in the dleague. I do wish he can improve them bc he really is a nice passer and team guy and he has potential on defense due to his size and athleticism, but I doubt his handles.

he's never going to improve his handles at his age but he can figure out ways to make plays with minimal dribbling ( One or two dribbles)..

There's players out there that dribble twice only attacking the perimeter and rely on the extra 1 to 2 steps to make a play...but that's a tricky since your vulnerable to traveling and unless you're elite at doing that it's probably not a good idea.

Green is fine though. He understands his game to an extent and he's trying to do too much, pop is there. He's already a borderline top 30 impact player in the league and a top 10 SG despite his limitation..it's all fine.

It's a bit concerning now that we have to Rely on Leonard and Aldridge though. Aldridge seems to be a really bad passer out of post ups and Kawhi needs space to operate so in sitauations where both blunder and fail to make a player the ball might swing to him and he'll have to figure out a way to make a simple dribble pass or shot..

[ElNono]

Kyle and Simms had no trouble fitting in next to each other with each having chances to do their thing and set each other up, but they also played nearly 30 games together in the dleague.

Fit with Manu hopefully will develop, but they are also adjusting to the real crazy size and athleticism in the NBA. Kyle specially is young and rookish enough that he's still developing, bc of his as age. Though Simms is more athletic I doubt he can develop more, thus the handles question. He's likely more limited, but NBA is also new to him as well.

I think you can always develop and add to your game, change it, etc. Simms might not fix his handles, but it's really his first taste against pro guys, and we'll see if he at least adjusts, and plays more to his strengths... I thought both of them played subdued basketball (Simms both games, Kyle this game), but it's just a week of practices and two games in. I think Simms and Kyle will see plenty of minutes together at least early in the season. Simms looks to be the 3rd string SG, and if the starters can keep playing like tonight, there will be plenty of blowouts to showcase them. Not to mention the annual Gino injury (knock on wood). So not really worried, and I like that Pop and the coaching staff are mixing both with some of the starters for stretches, that speaks well about their positioning with the team.

[spurraider21]

what a terrible, terrible basketball player

[spurraider21]

Gave the Kings preseason game a rewatch and found that the rhetoric against Jimmer is unjustified. I myself had said it was a terrible game for Jimmer or something to that effect. But the reality is that he played well; except his shot was not dropping very well in the first game.

First stint

* Made a three negated by Kawhi's turnover.
* Nice pick n' pop assist to LMA.
* No defensive lapses. Actually played good defense on Rondo for that matter.
* Good pass diagonal pass to Mills in the corner for a three that he didn't take.
* Great drive and floater that he didn't convert; but LMA cleaned it up b/c his man had to help.
* A good hard cut to the basket that LMA could've hit him on; in any event, it made the defense shift and created options at the three for other rotating players. LMA elected to brick a turnaround shot though.
* He created a mismatch for LMA on a quick transition after a made basket; and when Cousins went to double, he received an open three (which is exactly what the Spurs want).
* A hard close on Beli to not allow him an open three.
* Jimmer's thee presence on a post-up isolation prevented a strong side double. He would make a great back cut on the perimeter to get open for the three; LMA did not hit him and instead took Cousins 1v1 and was fouled.
* West committed a turnover on a collapse play that brilliantly left Jimmer open for three. Instead, West forced it. Come regular season, those plays will be hammered out and Jimmer will get the ball in rhythm and hit the bomb.
* Negative +/- very attributable to LMA playing very poorly within the offensive scheme. (LMA was taken out at the same time as Jimmer when RM came in and had a good +/-)

2nd Stint

* Good drive and floater. At the time I thought it was forced; but on the re-watch, I realize he knew he could easily get that shot on the much smaller David Stockton. He just didn't convert.
* Heads up foul on Anderson after he burned the other Anderson to not allow an easy lay-up.
* Good rotation. Anderson made the pass too high, so Jimmer couldn't get the open three off. A good drive; but then it looked like he was indecisive about shooting a floater or kicking to the corner and it was a turnover.
* Great use of the screen by Boban and then a "great" pass to Boban for a would-be dunk that he dropped. Btw, the reports of eye rolls by ST'ers are bunk. He clapped his hands and was muttering to himself. He directed no ill will to Boban though. For all we know, he wished he put the ball a little higher so that the ball couldn't be swatted from the big man's hands.
* Passed up on a good three from the side from KA. Pass was a bit low; but it was Stockton coming late. He should've taken it. But it was early in the shot clock; and those are the kind of 'mess-ups' a coach can live with.
* Missed a corner three. Rushed it, imo. A pump fake for the oncoming Stockton and a step to the side and shot would've been better, imo. But the shot he took was not bad per say.
* Played better defense against Stockton than Ray did, tbh.

And as an aside for all the Rasual Butler nut huggers; Kings players took it to the hole on him for scores on multiple occasions.
Can you analyze his stints against Miami? Thanks

[RayTdropout]

This is just sad now

[Darius Bieber]

I really don't get the big fuss. I want him and Butler to do well. When one of them makes the team, they're 15th out of 15 anyways... Not really guys who will lose or win games for the Spurs. If Jimmer makes the team, I'll support him and hope he gets to show off potential.

[.G.]

The neverending thread...

[pookenstein]

I really don't get the big fuss. I want him and Butler to do well. When one of them makes the team, they're 15th out of 15 anyways... Not really guys who will lose or win games for the Spurs. If Jimmer makes the team, I'll support him and hope he gets to show off potential.

No!
No, no, no, no, NO!!!! You can't just come here and support every player on the Spurs roster. You have to hate at least one of them. Get your shit together, dude!

[Maddog]

I really don't get the big fuss. I want him and Butler to do well. When one of them makes the team, they're 15th out of 15 anyways... Not really guys who will lose or win games for the Spurs. If Jimmer makes the team, I'll support him and hope he gets to show off potential.

Let's make this a 100 pages.

Jimmer is very polarizing. You could spend an hour or two reading through this thread and probably find some of the reasons, or not.
On some level I think it's part of our obsession with college sports. Great college player, whose game may not translate well into the pro game. To me it's not too surprising. Over the last decade the level of the NBA and College has become more and more disparate.
In some ways I hope he makes the team. If he does this means the staff feel his strengths outweigh some rather obvious deficits. Looking at things so far he looks like a long shot as he hasn't impressed and doesn't clearly fit a need a la Butler.

[Gladney to see you]

If he plays tonight, good luck guarding Dennis Schröder.

[DrSteffo]

To me it's about having a cool name and being white. He will have a good life and thousands of fans regardless of his limitations as a basketball player. That white rapper comes to mind...forgot his name already. I'm white btw.

[ceperez]

Jimmer is in a tight bind right now. He could be a very good 3 point shooter, however there are already two other undersized guards that are pretty good 3 point shooters. Mills absolutely and McCallum who seems to be showing that he can shoot.

Both these two are liabilities in defense, you can say the same about Jimmer.

So my confidence that Jimmer sticks is pretty low right now.

[TheDoctor]

This thread:
http://38.media.tumblr.com/e67dd7133bc8a1ada8f212cc2aed0cf5/tumblr_n6pdmnXjlc1tuj5gjo1_400.gif

[elbamba]

Can you analyze his stints against Miami? Thanks

1st Quarter
*Drank some water and clapped as TD and LMA scored baskets.

2nd Quarter
*First person off the bench during timeout to congratulate teammates as they return to the bench.

Halftime
*Warmed up real well and even stretched a little.

3rd Quarter
*Sat in between TD and Manu to watch the game.

4th Quarter
*Bought a hot dog and Sprite

Pretty solid outing in my opinion. Quit hating.

[Darius Bieber]

Don't see Jimmer on the bench tonight either.

[weeks]

for my homie Spurtacular
https://images.rapgenius.com/317cecd397f0b6dc602086faa5350f10.266x500x1.jpg

[Chinook]

Don't see Jimmer on the bench tonight either.

The Spurs are freezing him out.

[BillMc]

1st Quarter
*Drank some water and clapped as TD and LMA scored baskets.

2nd Quarter
*First person off the bench during timeout to congratulate teammates as they return to the bench.

Halftime
*Warmed up real well and even stretched a little.

3rd Quarter
*Sat in between TD and Manu to watch the game.

4th Quarter
*Bought a hot dog and Sprite

Pretty solid outing in my opinion. Quit hating.

:lol

[Ditty]

He's sitting on the floor, not even letting him sit on the bench :wow

[BillMc]

Jimmer!

[playbonner15]

:lol

[TheGreatYacht]

:lol

[Chinook]

He made a couple of shots and hustled on a few possessions D. Got a little unlucky with some guys being out of bounds when he passed them the ball. Still pretty much sucked, but I found myself rooting for him a bit due to Wilkins' completely awful scouting report on him.

[.G.]

1st Quarter
*Drank some water and clapped as TD and LMA scored baskets.

2nd Quarter
*First person off the bench during timeout to congratulate teammates as they return to the bench.

Halftime
*Warmed up real well and even stretched a little.

3rd Quarter
*Sat in between TD and Manu to watch the game.

4th Quarter
*Bought a hot dog and Sprite

Pretty solid outing in my opinion. Quit hating.

:lmao

[benefactor]

Terrible, tbh

[benfti]

This preseason has totally become about Jimmer watch for me

[LittleCriminal]

This dude is garbage

[Birn]

Jimmer will make the team at least until January 10. He's on the opening night roster my friends. I trust the Spurs FO over a bunch of message board jerk offs.

[Chinook]

Jimmer will make the team at least until January 10. He's on the opening night roster my friends. I trust the Spurs FO over a bunch of message board jerk offs.

If that's the entire basis of your opinion, then it's useless. We may as well never talk about basketball if we're all just going to defer to PATFO. There wrong often enough to leave open plenty of room for message-board debate.

[Birn]

If that's the entire basis of your opinion, then it's useless. We may as well never talk about basketball if we're all just going to defer to PATFO. There wrong often enough to leave open plenty of room for message-board debate.

Not really. They have earned 5 titles while people on this shit hole of a forum have none. They know what they are doing and people like you have no idea how to put together an NBA championship team.

[Mikeanaro]

http://www.nerdlikeyou.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/ghostbusters-slimer-the-ghost.jpg

[Chinook]

Not really. They have earned 5 titles while people on this shit hole of a forum have none. They know what they are doing and people like you have no idea how to put together an NBA championship team.

Are all your opinions created by people you consider more credible than yourself? You never have your own thoughts?

Anyway, yes, PATFO have been wrong plenty of times. Were you calling out people who disliked the Ayres signing because the Spurs "know what they are doing and people like you have no idea how to put together an NBA championship team"? Or when they gave RJ an extension? I hope not, because then your opinion is even more baseless than I can imagine. There's nothing wrong with not having an opinion, I guess. But it simply doesn't make sense to call out guys for having their own.

Jimmer may well be cut. What will your evaluation of him be then?

[Chinook]

This preseason has totally become about Jimmer watch for me


jimmer is fun to watch,love him how he get detroyed by everyone :lol

How many subjects can get benefactor, littlecoyotecoin , HarlemHeat37 , TheGreatYacht , Hoops Czar and TD21 to all agree?

Jimmer may well be the messiah after all.

[Nathan89]

I liked some of the things I saw on both defense and offense tonight. He needs to get the ball more and be more aggressive.

Overall not looking great though but I haven't been impressed with KA, Ray, Simmons, Williams, that other pg, either.

[TheGreatYacht]

Tebow got a Patriots camp invite, Jimmer got a Spurs camp invite.

No matter what team you root for, these teams deserve a ton of respect for making Make-A-Wish dreams come true :tu

[Birn]

Are all your opinions created by people you consider more credible than yourself? You never have your own thoughts?

Anyway, yes, PATFO have been wrong plenty of times. Were you calling out people who disliked the Ayres signing because the Spurs "know what they are doing and people like you have no idea how to put together an NBA championship team"? Or when they gave RJ an extension? I hope not, because then your opinion is even more baseless than I can imagine. There's nothing wrong with not having an opinion, I guess. But it simply doesn't make sense to call out guys for having their own.

Jimmer may well be cut. What will your evaluation of him be then?

PATFO are correct many more times than not. You guys have zero credibility because you have no clue how to build a championship squad.

Jimmer may very well make the team. What will your evaluation of him be then.

I believe he will make the team for at least a month or two. He has a legitimate skill that the Spurs need - shooting. PATFO probably want to give him a longer look to see how he fits with the program. That's a wise approach for someone who is young and could possibly be a valuable asset in the future. That's just smart. You guys dismiss prospects left and right without the benefit of knowing the prospects personally or evaluating what they do in practice or how their work habits fit with the team. They know exponentially more about any prospects than you would ever know about them.

[Hoops Czar]

PATFO are correct many more times than not. You guys have zero credibility because you have no clue how to build a championship squad.

Jimmer may very well make the team. What will your evaluation of him be then.

I believe he will make the team for at least a month or two. He has a legitimate skill that the Spurs need - shooting. PATFO probably want to give him a longer look to see how he fits with the program. That's a wise approach for someone who is young and could possibly be a valuable asset in the future. That's just smart. You guys dismiss prospects left and right without the benefit of knowing the prospects personally or evaluating what they do in practice or how their work habits fit with the team. They know exponentially more about any prospects than you would ever know about them.

The same as it's always been, the Spurs proving that you can't put lipstick on a pig no matter how hard you try.... :lol Jimmer, :lol Ayres, :lol Bonner, :lol Boban, etc. Damn, I'm all for charity cases but, not at the expense of guaranteed money and precious roster spots.

[Chinook]

You guys have zero credibility because you have no clue how to build a championship squad.

That's your problem. Ideas and arguments are completely independent of the person who has or asserts them. Jimmer is either good or he is not. Pop thinking Jimmer is good doesn't make him good. Pop thinking Ayres was good didn't stop him from being a bad player. Your attempt to dismiss arguments based on credibility is a logical fallacy called appeal to authority. It's not a smarter, more reasonable view to have. It's just lazy.


Jimmer may very well make the team. What will your evaluation of him be then.

I won't change simply based on that. I have never asserted that Jimmer won't make the team. They gave him a ton of money, and I doubt they want to waste it, though I believe they are willing to. But if he doesn't play better, I won't believe he deserved to make it. Unlike you, I'm not waiting for Pop to give me a cue on what to believe.


They know exponentially more about any prospects than you would ever know about them.

Yes, and congressmen know more about social policy than you would ever know. Do you just defer your opinions on social matters to your representative?

[TheDoctor]

The same as it's always been, the Spurs proving that you can't put lipstick on a pig no matter how hard you try.... :lol Jimmer, :lol Ayres, :lol Bonner, :lol Boban, etc. Damn, I'm all for charity cases but, not at the expense of guaranteed money and precious roster spots.

Remember, #character :lol.

[cd98]

Thought the bottom 7 players all played poorly. Jimmer was no worse. I think if any of these guys make the opening day roster, they'll be gone as soon as the Spurs can waive them and sign something better. I'd like to see Jimmer with the rotation players. He's in there with the rest of the scrubs and you don't really learn anything bc none of those guys are getting double teamed. I'd like to see if Jimmer can knock down the open looks he'd get with the rotation players.

And anyone that compared Jimmer to being as good as Mills is crazy. Mills is way better.

[ElNono]

Haters gonna hate....

http://i57.tinypic.com/9jgdqx.jpg

[SAGirl]

I did wonder what Pop was doing the last half of this game and the past game. Messina's game all the starters save LMA and Kawhi were out and yet it was the better coached team and it looked like guys really wanted to win. LMA and Kawhi had a poor shooting game and overall the first unit got outplayed by the Kings and yet a bench without Manu and Diaw was still well coached. Messina put lineups that fit together and clearly wanted to win. At one point he subbed Kyle out in the 4th and put him back in bc he gave the team the best chance to win within the confines of the lineups he was obligated to play and the minutes he had agreed with Pop to give to guys. He was still coaching guys to end the game and putting together plays. These past couple of games Pop cared about the chemistry for guys in the rotation the first half and then the second half is full experimentation mode, but I am not sure what he's learning from this. I think he already kind of knows who is making the team, and he's just throwing guys out there so they get their chances to be seen. For some guys who are already making the team, he's placing them in uncomfortable situations so they can learn from it, Kyle and Ray specially, both young guys who are still "green", are being let loose to sink or swim pretty much, but he's not coaching them to try to get them to rally up or setting up plays, or anything like that. It might not have made a difference anyways.

Coach Bud wanted this game. Preseason or no it was a home game and he put his starting squad out there in the 3rd to put this game away for good. They came out with defensive intensity and there is no way Kyle or Ray and a bunch of guys who were not NBA players would be able to make any kind of noise against an Eastern Conference Finalist Team last year. Are we kidding ourselves? Jimmer's most valuable asset has been his dribble penetration. He hasn't been able to get his shot off, but he's looked to make plays. I can see him making the team bc he already has a contract. The one guy who can make a run for it is Butler, who has been playing well and may play a kind of stretch 4.

[Spurtacular]

I liked some of the things I saw on both defense and offense tonight. He needs to get the ball more and be more aggressive.

Overall not looking great though but I haven't been impressed with KA, Ray, Simmons, Williams, that other pg, either.

Agreed. I'd like for him to look to get threes off of screens or on pull-ups. He's not been doing that. But that's what opens up his game. He needs to believe in his strengths and not be afraid to fail.

[SAGirl]

Agreed. I'd like for him to look to get threes off of screens or on pull-ups. He's not been doing that. But that's what opens up his game. He needs to believe in his strengths and not be afraid to fail.
I would not have mind at all to have seen some plays called to get him open for a shot TBH, which goes to my comment above. I am not sure what Pop is learning from the second half of these past games. I think he already knows who is making the team and is just giving the players in the roster playing time. You know what I saw when I saw Deshaun Thomas get all that playing time getting subbed in early in the second half? He's not making the team. I remembered just how much Daye played the game right before he got waived, and was even started for a couple of games the team wanted to win (Wash Wizards and Charlotte), all the while they sent Kyle Anderson to Austin after he had a few good games in December and was the better player of the two. He was just giving Daye a time to be seen, and Kyle was sent to work on his game. So often what we learn from these games is misplaced.

It may very well be that the guys who are really making the team are the guys who are already signed and the rest is just a tease.

[Spurtacular]

I would not have mind at all to have seen some plays called to get him open for a shot TBH, which goes to my comment above. I am not sure what Pop is learning from the second half of these past games. I think he already knows who is making the team and is just giving the players in the roster playing time. You know what I saw when I saw Deshaun Thomas get all that playing time getting subbed in early in the second half? He's not making the team. I remembered just how much Daye played the game right before he got waived, and was even started for a couple of games the team wanted to win (Wash Wizards and Charlotte), all the while they sent Kyle Anderson to Austin after he had a few good games in December and was the better player of the two. He was just giving Daye a time to be seen, and Kyle was sent to work on his game. So often what we learn from these games is misplaced.

It may very well be that the guys who are really making the team are the guys who are already signed and the rest is just a tease.

My thought is that Pop knows the fifteen under contract are making the team. He's giving guys like Williams, Butler, Sykes, etc some looks b/c he wants to leave no stone unturned. Certainly, the rotations make no sense otherwise.

[AFBlue]

Haters gonna hate....

http://i57.tinypic.com/9jgdqx.jpg

Shake it off.

[AFBlue]

Don't know why there would be anything more than supposition that Jimmer is getting the axe after a few games. He's the only one with a guaranteed contract of any substance that is competing for a spot out of camp.

[Spurtacular]

Don't know why there would be anything more than supposition that Jimmer is getting the axe after a few games. He's the only one with a guaranteed contract of any substance that is competing for a spot out of camp.

Haters, tbh.

[jeebus]

He's the Johnny Manziel of the NBA. If he has one game where he doesn't suck cock the whole game, this place would explode into a jizz cloud.

[apalisoc_9]

80 pages :lmao

[SpursIndonesia]

He made a couple of shots and hustled on a few possessions D. Got a little unlucky with some guys being out of bounds when he passed them the ball. Still pretty much sucked, but I found myself rooting for him a bit due to Wilkins' completely awful scouting report on him.

Yeah, the comment about him being a strictly a catch & shoot player with no ball handling skill at all really made me chuckling. :lol

[ceperez]

14th and 15th slots are up for grabs.

The remaining contenders:

Butler <-- role player at the 3. can shoot when open and long enough to be decent in defense.
Fredette <-- good IQ, but has too many risky moves. can't defend.
Bonner <-- locker glue, but can he still play?
Williams <-- seems to have a certain poise, but does the team need another SG?

I am leaning towards keeping Butler and leaving 15 slot open. Bonner makes sense from the coaching perspective.

[TheDoctor]

I did wonder what Pop was doing the last half of this game and the past game. Messina's game all the starters save LMA and Kawhi were out and yet it was the better coached team and it looked like guys really wanted to win. LMA and Kawhi had a poor shooting game and overall the first unit got outplayed by the Kings and yet a bench without Manu and Diaw was still well coached. Messina put lineups that fit together and clearly wanted to win. At one point he subbed Kyle out in the 4th and put him back in bc he gave the team the best chance to win within the confines of the lineups he was obligated to play and the minutes he had agreed with Pop to give to guys. He was still coaching guys to end the game and putting together plays. These past couple of games Pop cared about the chemistry for guys in the rotation the first half and then the second half is full experimentation mode, but I am not sure what he's learning from this. I think he already kind of knows who is making the team, and he's just throwing guys out there so they get their chances to be seen. For some guys who are already making the team, he's placing them in uncomfortable situations so they can learn from it, Kyle and Ray specially, both young guys who are still "green", are being let loose to sink or swim pretty much, but he's not coaching them to try to get them to rally up or setting up plays, or anything like that. It might not have made a difference anyways.

Coach Bud wanted this game. Preseason or no it was a home game and he put his starting squad out there in the 3rd to put this game away for good. They came out with defensive intensity and there is no way Kyle or Ray and a bunch of guys who were not NBA players would be able to make any kind of noise against an Eastern Conference Finalist Team last year. Are we kidding ourselves? Jimmer's most valuable asset has been his dribble penetration. He hasn't been able to get his shot off, but he's looked to make plays. I can see him making the team bc he already has a contract. The one guy who can make a run for it is Butler, who has been playing well and may play a kind of stretch 4.

You're putting too much thought in this. First, Messina is not in the same position as Pop. If he wants to be a HC in the near future, he needs to show that he can coach. For that reason its that you see him coaching and putting some effort until the last second of the game. On the other hand, Pop could put you, daboom, spurtacular, elnono and me and he will not care. He doesn't need to prove anything. Practically he has remained on the bench during these past 2 games. I think if he has raised from the bench is to argue with officials and during time outs. But nothing more. He's throwing out these scrubs in there to give them playing time because once the regular season starts they won't get that much of a playing time if any. Even in another team.

[From Downtown]

14th and 15th slots are up for grabs.

The remaining contenders:

Butler <-- role player at the 3. can shoot when open and long enough to be decent in defense.
Fredette <-- good IQ, but has too many risky moves. can't defend.
Bonner <-- locker glue, but can he still play?
Williams <-- seems to have a certain poise, but does the team need another SG?

I am leaning towards keeping Butler and leaving 15 slot open. Bonner makes sense from the coaching perspective.
There's no way Bonner won't make the team
For the other spot personally I'd go with Butler,I don't think Williams is NBA material
KA is Kawhi'r replacement and will play at the 3,Simmons will probably play when Manu is resting,but neither of them is a good-to-great 3 point shooter
So for a 3-rd string wing player we know Rasual can make open 3s,while Jimmer's release is too slow for the NBA,plus he needs the ball in his hands to be effective and he's not a good enough ball-handler to command that...Rasual also have size on his side when it comes to defense

[Raven]

cut him.

[Birn]

That's your problem. Ideas and arguments are completely independent of the person who has or asserts them. Jimmer is either good or he is not. Pop thinking Jimmer is good doesn't make him good. Pop thinking Ayres was good didn't stop him from being a bad player. Your attempt to dismiss arguments based on credibility is a logical fallacy called appeal to authority. It's not a smarter, more reasonable view to have. It's just lazy.



I won't change simply based on that. I have never asserted that Jimmer won't make the team. They gave him a ton of money, and I doubt they want to waste it, though I believe they are willing to. But if he doesn't play better, I won't believe he deserved to make it. Unlike you, I'm not waiting for Pop to give me a cue on what to believe.



Yes, and congressmen know more about social policy than you would ever know. Do you just defer your opinions on social matters to your representative?

Your congressman argument is utterly stupid. Members of Congress work for us, the people. We have authority over them. Comparing members of Congress to the way the Spurs build their team just shows your illiteracy. Jimmer may be a bust but I'm going to give PATFO the benefit of the doubt based on their proven track record. That's not submitting to anything. I've only seen Jimmer play about 15 minutes of preseason action with the Spurs. I haven't seen more of him in practice or how he works with the staff or other players. Have you?

[ceperez]

There's no way Bonner won't make the team
For the other spot personally I'd go with Butler,I don't think Williams is NBA material
KA is Kawhi'r replacement and will play at the 3,Simmons will probably play when Manu is resting,but neither of them is a good-to-great 3 point shooter
So for a 3-rd string wing player we know Rasual can make open 3s,while Jimmer's release is too slow for the NBA,plus he needs the ball in his hands to be effective and he's not a good enough ball-handler to command that...Rasual also have size on his side when it comes to defense

The game against the Hawks showed that even if Butler shot poorly, he did a lot of other things. 5 rebounds and 2 assists.

I am however worried about McCallum. He hasn't shown to have the basketball IQ to run the Spurs offense. That is troubling for a backup point guard.

[Chinook]

Your congressman argument is utterly stupid. Members of Congress work for us, the people. We have authority over them.

That's completely irrelevant (and mostly ignorant). You're aligning your opinions with those of PATFO because you consider them more knowledgeable. Congressman are (or should be) more knowledgeable than you or I, and they definitely have access to more detailed information to we do. So they should have better formed opinions. And they have tremendous track records, lest they wouldn't be congressmen. So why aren't you deferring to their credibility?


Jimmer may be a bust but I'm going to give PATFO the benefit of the doubt based on their proven track record.

Do we as posters have any power over whether Fredette is on the team? No. So who cares whether we give him the benefit of the doubt or not? We cannot affect the outcome, so we're only giving our evaluation of the situation. Well, we except for you are. You're taking the completely substanceless view that you agree with PATFO on all personnel matters. Again, that's your right, but it's a REALLY silly stance to pump up and condescend people for not having.


I haven't seen more of him in practice or how he works with the staff or other players. Have you?

The reason why this thread got so long is because of a workout video of Jimmer someone posted. It sparked a ton of debate over his mechanical issues. It takes less than 15 minutes of game time to see that those deadly faults are still there. He hasn't fixed his shot at all, and that's why most of us have no faith in him. That shot is why he was even available for a minimum deal in the first place.

So yeah, I have an opinion on him that he hasn't done anything to change. I watched quite a bit of footage of him, including full game videos and not just highlights. I looked at his stats and actually analysed them. I didn't just sit on my ass and claim Jimmer sucks because I don't like his name or because his rivalry with Kawhi. I went in sort of liking him and ended up realizing he's not a good player after researching him. That's much better than just deferring to someone else.

[From Downtown]

The game against the Hawks showed that even if Butler shot poorly, he did a lot of other things. 5 rebounds and 2 assists.

I am however worried about McCallum. He hasn't shown to have the basketball IQ to run the Spurs offense. That is troubling for a backup point guard.
He's a good offensive player,but yeah he looks like he's not completely aware of how to run an offense
He comes from 3 years in Sacramento and he's still quite young though,so he can still improve working with Pop and the Spurs coaching staff

[TheDoctor]

Your congressman argument is utterly stupid. Members of Congress work for us, the people. We have authority over them. Comparing members of Congress to the way the Spurs build their team just shows your illiteracy. Jimmer may be a bust but I'm going to give PATFO the benefit of the doubt based on their proven track record. That's not submitting to anything. I've only seen Jimmer play about 15 minutes of preseason action with the Spurs. I haven't seen more of him in practice or how he works with the staff or other players. Have you?

http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k346/huntersnk/hot-chick-dancing.gif

[Spurtacular]

Yeah, the comment about him being a strictly a catch & shoot player with no ball handling skill at all really made me chuckling. :lol

Domique Wilkins is about as dumb as Clyde Drexler; that meant nothing.

[Chinook]

Domique Wilkins is about as dumb as Clyde Drexler; that meant nothing.

That's what he and I were saying. That take was Miller-level bad.

[Spurtacular]

The game against the Hawks showed that even if Butler shot poorly, he did a lot of other things. 5 rebounds and 2 assists.

I am however worried about McCallum. He hasn't shown to have the basketball IQ to run the Spurs offense. That is troubling for a backup point guard.

If Rasual Butler isn't scoring, he's absolutely a negative value. He's never been the proverbial all around player by any means.

[Spurtacular]

14th and 15th slots are up for grabs.

The remaining contenders:

Butler <-- role player at the 3. can shoot when open and long enough to be decent in defense.
Fredette <-- good IQ, but has too many risky moves. can't defend.
Bonner <-- locker glue, but can he still play?
Williams <-- seems to have a certain poise, but does the team need another SG?

I am leaning towards keeping Butler and leaving 15 slot open. Bonner makes sense from the coaching perspective.

How does cutting two signed players, signing another player and paying more in luxury tax and leaving a spot open and then paying more in luxury tax if you use it make sense?

[SAGirl]

How does cutting two signed players, signing another player and paying more in luxury tax and leaving a spot open and then paying more in luxury tax if you use it make sense?
I am not sure any of this makes sense, but I think the Spurs were interested in Butler for some time and maybe Butler was holding out for something else, agreeing to come to camp as the last of his options at the last minute. To get him to agree Pop must have been sincere that he had a shot. All of Jimmer, Butler, Williams and even Simms are in play. Bonner, although he's looked poor is staying put I assume, too much history with the team and chemistry with guys to be cut. I expect that if at some point in the season due to injuries and Bonner' s lack of a shooting stroke they need his spot, only then they will waive him. Jimmer would have helped his case if he could shoot, but he's gotten his shot blocked and clanked open looks he's gotten. In terms of shooting, he hasn't been good.

[monkeypunk]

How does cutting two signed players, signing another player and paying more in luxury tax and leaving a spot open and then paying more in luxury tax if you use it make sense?

Cause Jimmer sucks and is a net negative. If they leave an open spot, they can pick up an actual player once the buyout season starts and PATFO don't care so much about paying a little tax money nowadays. If there is a fit, they will make it work for the good of the team.

If Jimmer could hit his (any) shots, it would be a different story altogether but we've all seen what he can do and why he is on his 49th team in 6 months.

[Spurtacular]

Cause Jimmer sucks and is a net negative. If they leave an open spot, they can pick up an actual player once the buyout season starts and PATFO don't care so much about paying a little tax money nowadays. If there is a fit, they will make it work for the good of the team.

If Jimmer could hit his (any) shots, it would be a different story altogether but we've all seen what he can do and why he is on his 49th team in 6 months.

Rasual is 36 and has never been that great of a player; nor has he been a good an all around player. He can still be serviceable; but I think the fact that he went to Spurs camp w/o a contract shows that teams were either being risk averse or Rasual is actually ring chasing. I'd guess the former, tbh. I'm not saying Jimmer or Bonner can't be cut; I'm saying I have a hard time seeing it happening before January if it happens.

[Spurtacular]

Cause Jimmer sucks and is a net negative. If they leave an open spot, they can pick up an actual player once the buyout season starts and PATFO don't care so much about paying a little tax money nowadays. If there is a fit, they will make it work for the good of the team.

If Jimmer could hit his (any) shots, it would be a different story altogether but we've all seen what he can do and why he is on his 49th team in 6 months.

They're not going to pay money so that a guy can sit and rot at the end of the bench. Stop drinking the haterade and see reality for what it is.

[hater]

Jimmer looked a bit better towards the end of the game. He wasn't getting his shit stuffed and dribbling the ball out of bound off his foot :lol

He can't be much worse fellas I believe he has hit rock bottom and only way is up :lol

[Spurtacular]

You're putting too much thought in this. First, Messina is not in the same position as Pop. If he wants to be a HC in the near future, he needs to show that he can coach. For that reason its that you see him coaching and putting some effort until the last second of the game. On the other hand, Pop could put you, daboom, spurtacular, elnono and me and he will not care. He doesn't need to prove anything. Practically he has remained on the bench during these past 2 games. I think if he has raised from the bench is to argue with officials and during time outs. But nothing more. He's throwing out these scrubs in there to give them playing time because once the regular season starts they won't get that much of a playing time if any. Even in another team.

He wouldn't have to care; cos I'd take over like a boss.

[Gladney to see you]

KL got his shot stuffed out of bounds. It happens.

[Birn]

That's completely irrelevant (and mostly ignorant). You're aligning your opinions with those of PATFO because you consider them more knowledgeable. Congressman are (or should be) more knowledgeable than you or I, and they definitely have access to more detailed information to we do. So they should have better formed opinions. And they have tremendous track records, lest they wouldn't be congressmen. So why aren't you deferring to their credibility?



Do we as posters have any power over whether Fredette is on the team? No. So who cares whether we give him the benefit of the doubt or not? We cannot affect the outcome, so we're only giving our evaluation of the situation. Well, we except for you are. You're taking the completely substanceless view that you agree with PATFO on all personnel matters. Again, that's your right, but it's a REALLY silly stance to pump up and condescend people for not having.



The reason why this thread got so long is because of a workout video of Jimmer someone posted. It sparked a ton of debate over his mechanical issues. It takes less than 15 minutes of game time to see that those deadly faults are still there. He hasn't fixed his shot at all, and that's why most of us have no faith in him. That shot is why he was even available for a minimum deal in the first place.

So yeah, I have an opinion on him that he hasn't done anything to change. I watched quite a bit of footage of him, including full game videos and not just highlights. I looked at his stats and actually analysed them. I didn't just sit on my ass and claim Jimmer sucks because I don't like his name or because his rivalry with Kawhi. I went in sort of liking him and ended up realizing he's not a good player after researching him. That's much better than just deferring to someone else.

You really need to let it go. I think your opinion is trash and you think mine is trash. So what? I told you what my opinion was on Jimmer but you're too mentally degenerate to read and comprehend anything. I'll say it again for your benefit. The Spurs need another shooter. Jimmer is a good shooter. He's also a decent passer. He's close to what Belinelli gave us in terms of his offensive skills. Defensively, they would need to hide him like they did with Belinelli, Del Negro, Kerr, Neal, etc. It's not unusual for the Spurs to bring in someone who isn't a lock down defender. As long as he's capable of keeping someone in front of him 75% of the time and funneling opponents into our shot blockers, they can use him. He just needs to be an aggressive shooter and willing passer . That's why they brought him in. The Spurs want to give him a good look and see what else he can do. He's going to be on the opening night roster no matter how much anyone thinks he should be cut. I don't believe PATFO are going to waste $600k for someone to just attend training camp. Butler may be Jimmer's biggest competition but Butler is old and he can't pass. However, PATFO will make a decision that they feel is best for the team. I trust them 100% based on their track record, experience, skill, and competency with evaluating NBA talent. Neither you nor I could ever be in their position because neither of us are qualified. That's much different than running for Congress. Anybody can run for Congress and some of the dumbest and most unqualified people have been elected to Congress. Very different animal.

[Chinook]

Everyone one in camp is a "signed" player. If they want to keep Butler, they just won't cut him. They don't have to renegotiate with him. Besides eating money, cutting Jimmer is the exact same as cutting anyone else.

[Chinook]

Your post.

Bro, if you came with that, there would have been no issue. Instead you came with things like,


This whole narrative about his shot needs fixing is a complete fallacy made up by some message board jerk off who thinks he's an NBA shooting coach.

And,


Thank God you don't evaluate NBA players for an NBA team.

So stop acting like you're just having an opinion and people are freaking out. You've been an asshole this whole time insulting me either directly or indirectly and to your own point, all you have to go on is, "Well the Spurs like him." The Spurs cut at least five players out of camp every year. We as fans don't have to like them all just because the team brought them in.

It's just a really shitty strategy from you. You're extremely arrogant and pejorative, but you use completely unreliable means to support your own opinions. I can respect folks like Spurtacular (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=49615) who at least try (or tried) to have a legitimate discourse. You've probably just had nothing but miserable takes in your 200-plus posts. I hope that number stays low for the forum's sake.

[Spurtacular]

Everyone one in camp is a "signed" player. If they want to keep Butler, they just won't cut him. They don't have to renegotiate with him. Besides eating money, cutting Jimmer is the exact same as cutting anyone else.

Spurs would eat a mil plus luxury tax as far as I can decipher. I don't think the Spurs are short on forward strength; and Pop has explicitly mentioned that guard depth is a big concern and that that's why the Spurs signed Jimmer. This is just a glaring reality that ST'ers are completely ignoring.

Now, Jimmer and/or Bonner can be dumped in January or before and another player signed if they're not cutting it. But the Spurs have not suddenly decided that to be the case after a few preseason games. If they were that shaky on it, they never would've signed them in the first place.

[Birn]

Bro, if you came with that, there would have been no issue. Instead you came with things like,



And,



So stop acting like you're just having an opinion and people are freaking out. You've been an asshole this whole time insulting me either directly or indirectly and to your own point, all you have to go on is, "Well the Spurs like him." The Spurs cut at least five players out of camp every year. We as fans don't have to like them all just because the team brought them in.

It's just a really shitty strategy from you. You're extremely arrogant and pejorative, but you use completely unreliable means to support your own opinions. I can respect folks like Spurtacular (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=49615) who at least try (or tried) to have a legitimate discourse. You've probably just had nothing but miserable takes in your 200-plus posts. I hope that number stays low for the forum's sake.

This is precisely the reason I don't post or read this forum very much. Because it is filled with DICKS like you who are incapable of having an honest discussion about basketball. Instead, all I see are non stop red herrings, straw man arguments, and non-sequitur diversions. I've given you my opinions multiple times now and you still won't let it go because you are obsessed with people who disagree with you. Are you really that insecure? Let it go moron.

[tholdren]

This is precisely the reason I don't post or read this forum very much. Because it is filled with DICKS like you who are incapable of having an honest discussion about basketball. Instead, all I see are non stop red herrings, straw man arguments, and non-sequitur diversions. I've given you my opinions multiple times now and you still won't let it go because you are obsessed with people who disagree with you. Are you really that insecure? Let it go moron.
Lol that's chinook. At least he says some things that make sense though. He is overly sensitive and where his vocabulary is robust, he lacks in critical thinking. He does resort to name calling and talking in circles or diverting from the main argument, but he does not recognize this. Live and let live, dicks or not. Keep posting, if nothing else you'll piss him off

[Splits]

Damn. Birn is the poster child for why enrollment to this site was shut down for so many years. Such a godawful poster. But it is hilarious seeing him getting his shit pushed in on anything he tries to weigh in on :lol

[tholdren]

Damn. Birn is the u child for why enrollment to this site was shut down for so many years. Such a godawful poster. But it is hilarious seeing him getting his shit pushed in on anything he tries to weigh in on :lol

Is splits Chinook.... Chris Broussard and his sources say yes

[Birn]

Lol that's chinook. At least he says some things that make sense though. He is overly sensitive and where his vocabulary is robust, he lacks in critical thinking. He does resort to name calling and talking in circles or diverting from the main argument, but he does not recognize this. Live and let live, dicks or not. Keep posting, if nothing else you'll piss him off

+1

Thanks for the insight. Much appreciated sir!

[Chinook]

This is precisely the reason I don't post or read this forum very much. Because it is filled with DICKS like you who are incapable of having an honest discussion about basketball. Instead, all I see are non stop red herrings, straw man arguments, and non-sequitur diversions. I've given you my opinions multiple times now and you still won't let it go because you are obsessed with people who disagree with you. Are you really that insecure? Let it go moron.

Your opinion is that Jimmer is a shooter. Your justification is that Pop think's he's a shooter. My stance is that he is a poor shooter for what the Spurs need. My justification is that he has a bad release and that that has manifested itself in multiple ways that are easy to see. Instead of just ignoring it (since it's not like I started quoting you), you decided to be an asshole and make snide remarks.

That you have a shitty opinion has never been an issue. I'm not trying to convince you I'm right, because my opinion doesn't matter. The issue has always been that you've carried yourself like an asshole when it's clear you lack the desire to think critically about your opinion. Many of us are on this board to disagree and present evidence. That's just discourse. You don't post here much because you don't belong. No one's gonna miss you. We can always use fewer assholes around these parts.

[tholdren]

Your opinion is that Jimmer is a shooter. Your justification is that Pop think's he's a shooter. My stance is that he is a poor shooter for what the Spurs need. My justification is that he has a bad release and that that has manifested itself in multiple ways that are easy to see. Instead of just ignoring it (since it's not like I started quoting you), you decided to be an asshole and make snide remarks.

That you have a shitty opinion has never been an issue. I'm not trying to convince you I'm right, because my opinion doesn't matter. The issue has always been that you've carried yourself like an asshole when it's clear you lack the desire to think critically about your opinion. FOUR of us are on this board to disagree and present evidence. That's just discourse. You don't post here much because you don't belong. No one's gonna miss you. We can always use fewer assholes around these parts.

FIFY.

Side-note. Release has nothing to do with it. Kevin Martin

[Chinook]

FIFY.

Side-note. Release has nothing to do with it. Kevin Martin

Four? So everyone else agrees on everything? Who are the other three, btb?

[tholdren]

Four? So everyone else agrees on everything? Who are the other three, btb?

There are roughly 4 posters on here that attempt to respond to original arguments with some sort of evidence other than "yeah so." Everyone else either agrees, is only on to troll (which is funny), cannot comprehend, calls names/goes off on a tangent, or responds in an illogical manner.

[Chinook]

There are roughly 4 posters on here that attempt to respond to original arguments with some sort of evidence other than "yeah so." Everyone else either agrees, is only on to troll (which is funny), cannot comprehend, calls names/goes off on a tangent, or responds in an illogical manner.

Are you one of us?

[tholdren]

Are you one of us?
Just like yours, my opinion doesn't matter. You not responding to my comment on release is a telling sign of who is and who is not.

[Chinook]

Just like yours, my opinion doesn't matter. You not responding to my comment on release is a telling sign of who is and who is not.

It's a bad take, so I'm ignoring it. But I'm wondering if you think you're one of the "four" people who actually try to back up their arguments. Do you think people backing up their stances is a bad thing?

[tholdren]

It's a bad take, so I'm ignoring it. But I'm wondering if you think you're one of the "four" people who actually try to back up their arguments. Do you think people backing up their stances is a bad thing?
No I think that people backing their stance with illogical numbers and out of context stats, or other regurgitated "thoughts" are bad things i.e. Kevin Martin release and Jimmer release.

[Chinook]

No I think that people backing their stance with illogical numbers and out of context stats, or other regurgitated "thoughts" are bad things i.e. Kevin Martin release and Jimmer release.

So do only four people do that? Or is it even just a subset of the four people that do that? Are you the only one of the four that doesn't do that?

[Spurtacular]

It's not that the release / size arguments are not w/o merit. It's that they're often overstated. And it ignores Jimmer's ability to shoot from deep threes. Though, he hasn't been doing that so far. I don't know if that's due to a small sample size, Pop not wanting that, or Jimmer being too timid. We'll see though.

[apalisoc_9]

It's not that the release / size arguments are not w/o merit. It's that they're often overstated. And it ignores Jimmer's ability to shoot from deep threes. Though, he hasn't been doing that so far. I don't know if that's due to a small sample size, Pop not wanting that, or Jimmer being too timid. We'll see though.

Maybe because he's a terrible shooter.

[Spurtacular]

Maybe because he's a terrible shooter.

Yawn.

[apalisoc_9]

Yawn.

.188

Fredette is even worse than I thought

.188

:lmao

Boban Can probably be a more efficient three point shooter than him.

[Spurtacular]

.188

Fredette is even worse than I thought

.188

:lmao

Boban Can probably be a more efficient three point shooter than him.

It took you that long to stumble onto that stat, faggot?

[apalisoc_9]

It took you that long to stumble onto that stat, faggot?

.188

[Spurtacular]

.188

Is that what Kawhi shot in Games 5-7 against the Clips?

[SpursIndonesia]

Kevin Martin's shooting form is low & awkward, but plenty damn fast, consistent, & accurate, and proven to be effective enough either as a main scorer off the ball or floor spacer. If Bummer Brickette can atleast speed up his shooting motion about 50% faster, while still not all that beautiful & ideal, i think his shooting form will work too, too bad it ain't happening.

[tholdren]

Kevin Martin's shooting form is low & awkward, but plenty damn fast, consistent, & accurate, and proven to be effective enough either as a main scorer off the ball or floor spacer. If Bummer Brickette can atleast speed up his shooting motion about 50% faster, while still not all that beautiful & ideal, i think his shooting form will work too, too bad it ain't happening.

I would disagree and use his windup as the reason his shot isn't plenty fast. Good shooter though. The point is, no matter what armchair basketball players think, these bs technical aspects are not as defining as they would like to pretend.

Say this same thing about short qbs, running qbs in football.

The only things that will truly evolve someone is time and confidence. But that is not to say technical adjustments are useless.

Giving gglimmer a quicker release won't turn him into Ray allen. Allowing him to feel confident and giving him time in the system will yield a better player. Even with a quicker release he would still be fumbling around

[Chinook]

Kevin Martin's shooting form is low & awkward, but plenty damn fast, consistent, & accurate, and proven to be effective enough either as a main scorer off the ball or floor spacer. If Bummer Brickette can atleast speed up his shooting motion about 50% faster, while still not all that beautiful & ideal, i think his shooting form will work too, too bad it ain't happening.

Yeah, slow releases are killers, as are lower release points. Martin has indeed "made it work" with his release, but there are very noticeable side effects to his game.

Like Jimmer, Martin is accurate on corner-threes, but he can't attempt many (only 26 percent of his threes come from the easiest spot along the arch) because people are able to close out on him. His rate of assisted threes is .867 for his career. That might seem like a lot (and it is compared to Jimmer's .615), but it's actually pretty low compared to elite shooters (Green and Korver are at .940 and .962, while Ray Allen in his best years with Boston and Miami was at .916-- though Curry is an obvious exception at .621 and Mills is closer to Martin at .820). Martin's ability to space the floor is definitely affected by his release point, and I also want to say that Martin is extremely side-dominate due to fling-shot form.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/629/149/kevinmartinchart_original.jpeg?1354126533

From his Thunder days. And this site (http://vorped.com/1-nba/2014-2015/player/887/kevin-martin/shotchart/) for last season. He's not nearly as versatile as he would be if he shot with better technique. Just like Jimmer, his shot locations are affected by his release, but at least Kevin is in the normal playing field.

When people assume that Jimmer can learn to play with his release being so awful, they fail to release that his game HAS ALREADY been modified to account for it. That's why he takes so many more shots off the dribble than he does spotting up, shoots from farther away from the basket and takes almost no corner shots. No one should wonder Jimmer can individually compensate for his limitations. He's done that already. He can do his thing one-on-one, which Kawhi found out when they were in school together.

The question has always been this: Does the way he compensates work in a team context? The answer for him is that it only really works on when a team lets him hold the ball and make his own offense. The more people try to get him into a normal spot-up situation, the harder it is for him to help the team. The more a coach wants him to stand in a corner, the fewer shots he'll be able to get off.

[Gladney to see you]

I think he is like a guy who falls in love with a 3 in his career to the detriment of other parts of his game. He can drive by people and shoot a good percentage. It is nice but it isn't his role. He isn't a slow shooter, his release just isn't as good because he is hesitating now because driving is an easy option. He needs to get back to thinking 3 first and drive 2nd.

[HarlemHeat37]

Martin's numbers also fall off a cliff against good/great defensive teams, which he has been known for his entire career(ask any fan of any team he has played for), including both his playoff appearances IMO..easy to mask flaws during the regular season when teams don't game plan..

:lmao regardless, though, comparing one of the best foul-drawers of this generation and a player with actual basketball skills to Jimmer..that's like comparing Phillip Rivers to Tebow because Martin's shot release is unconventional..

[tholdren]

Yeah, slow releases are killers, as are lower release points. Martin has indeed "made it work" with his release, but there are very noticeable side effects to his game.

Like Jimmer, Martin is accurate on corner-threes, but he can't attempt many (only 26 percent of his threes come from the easiest spot along the arch) because people are able to close out on him. His rate of assisted threes is .867 for his career. That might seem like a lot (and it is compared to Jimmer's .615), but it's actually pretty low compared to elite shooters (Green and Korver are at .940 and .962, while Ray Allen in his best years with Boston and Miami was at .916-- though Curry is an obvious exception at .621 and Mills is closer to Martin at .820). Martin's ability to space the floor is definitely affected by his release point, and I also want to say that Martin is extremely side-dominate due to fling-shot form.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/629/149/kevinmartinchart_original.jpeg?1354126533

From his Thunder days. And this site (http://vorped.com/1-nba/2014-2015/player/887/kevin-martin/shotchart/) for last season. He's not nearly as versatile as he would be if he shot with better technique. Just like Jimmer, his shot locations are affected by his release, but at least Kevin is in the normal playing field.

When people assume that Jimmer can learn to play with his release being so awful, they fail to release that his game HAS ALREADY been modified to account for it. That's why he takes so many more shots off the dribble than he does spotting up, shoots from farther away from the basket and takes almost no corner shots. No one should wonder Jimmer can individually compensate for his limitations. He's done that already. He can do his thing one-on-one, which Kawhi found out when they were in school together.

The question has always been this: Does the way he compensates work in a team context? The answer for him is that it only really works on when a team lets him hold the ball and make his own offense. The more people try to get him into a normal spot-up situation, the harder it is for him to help the team. The more a coach wants him to stand in a corner, the seconfdfewer shots he'll be able to get off.
Wow you make a tremendous amount of assumption based on that graphic. Misusing stats again I see. First, there is no "easiest" three, or shot. Second, you state versitility, but martin is a good three-point shooter and can get to the line better than anyone you've listed, and Kawhi.

Martin is someone I've watched since high school. I watched him at Western at the top of the nation in scoring, and watched him in the nba. You on the other hand, put your argument on the table with minimal evidence which you think proves your point, but it doesnt. It's comical that you feel in info graphic can replace watching a player for two decades. Silly you

[Chinook]

Wow you make a tremendous amount of assumption based on that graphic.

Did you ignore that link I put in that showed his other seasons? They all look the same.


First, there is no "easiest" three, or shot.

I know exactly why you think that, so there's no reason going down that road.


Second, you state versitility, but martin is a good three-point shooter and can get to the line better than anyone you've listed, and Kawhi.

Yes, but he pretty much only plays on one side of the floor. If he had a better release, he could play well on both sides. As a floor-spacer, versatility really helps. Martin is or at least was great at drawing fouls. He's not a one-trick pony, but he's not a complete player either due to his release.


Martin is someone I've watched since high school. I watched him at Western at the top of the nation in scoring, and watched him in the nba.

No one gives a shit about your anecdote. It's obvious you don't know how to interpret anything you see, so even if it's true, it doesn't matter. If you want to bring some other evidence to suggest I'm wrong, sure. But the fact is that you're wrong in assuming Martin wasn't limited, at least in the NBA.

[Lostwingman]

I'm just waiting for the inevitable suicide in before November.

[tholdren]

Did you ignore that link I put in that showed his other seasons? They all look the same.



I know exactly why you think that, so there's no reason going down that road.



Yes, but he pretty much only plays on one side of the floor. If he had a better release, he could play well on both sides. As a floor-spacer, versatility really helps. Martin is or at least was great at drawing fouls. He's not a one-trick pony, but he's not a complete player either due to his release.



No one gives a shit about your anecdote. It's obvious you don't know how to interpret anything you see, so even if it's true, it doesn't matter. If you want to bring some other evidence to suggest I'm wrong, sure. But the fact is that you're wrong in assuming Martin wasn't limited, at least in the NBA.

Lol. Your whole emphasis on finite numbers that were past measurements make you "think" you have "answers." The reality is, and for some unknown reason, you can't understand that these measurements aren't predicated on one thing and the chances of exact replication are zero.

I'm really curious if you have some psychological issue with numbers. Basically what you are telling me, and anyone who reads your posts, that no matter how many times someone has watched a player, you can pull a random "stat" and know more about the player...?

So strange that teams use a similar process when selecting players, yet these same players proven by data many times do not pan out.

I'm amazed that you are still on a message board after all of these posts and not in a front office creating algorithms for a pro team.

You're right Chinook. Kevin Martin's slow release has made him less versatile on offense than many other players. Equally confusing that he has better advanced stats than Leonard, but keep showing your graphics.

[Chinook]

Lol. Your whole emphasis on finite numbers that were past measurements make you "think" you have "answers." The reality is, and for some unknown reason, you can't understand that these measurements aren't predicated on one thing and the chances of exact replication are zero.

Look, we can all post gobbledygook and think that makes us sound smart. Again, I'm not saying stats are predictive or prescriptive. But they are descriptive. Martin has been limited by his release (not its speed, since it's fast, but its release point, which is low and off the the side). You can act like it's somehow a trick of numbers that his game favors one side of the floor, but it's just silly to anyone who's not trying to buoy their view that they know what their eyes saw.


I'm really curious if you have some psychological issue with numbers. Basically what you are telling me, and anyone who reads your posts, that no matter how many times someone has watched a player, you can pull a random "stat" and know more about the player...?

Yeah. You haven't demonstrated the ability the analyze a player's game at all. So I don't care if you say you've watched him more. That's even more true because there's no way to verify how much you've watched him. Anyway, yeah, if the numbers say Martin has been biased to the left side of floor, and you eyes and experience seem to think he hasn't, I have no problem claiming your eyes and experience is wrong. No issue at all.


So strange that teams use a similar process when selecting players, yet these same players proven by data many times do not pan out.

You mean like when the Kings selected Jimmer in the mid lottery? And no one's proven to be a good bet by data. Data explains the past. So it can tell teams who played well in college just fine, and those players can end up being poor pros for a number of reasons. Jimmer is a prime example of this.


I'm amazed that you are still on a message board after all of these posts and not in a front office creating algorithms for a pro team.

I think you misunderstand the timbre of my disagreement with you. It's not, "OMG, I'm so smart that I understand all this stuff you can't because you're just a normal guy." It's, "This stuff is really obvious to anyone who looks, and if you weren't acting so foolish, you could absorb this basic info too." I'm not doing anything hard. You're just trying hard to downplay very easy to see things.


You're right Chinook. Kevin Martin's slow release has made him less versatile on offense than many other players. Equally confusing that he has better advanced stats than Leonard, but keep showing your graphics.

First, why bring Leonard into this? It's like you are a different person in this thread. You know I know Leonard has shooting issues. He's hardly a gold standard to compare floor-spacers. Second, Martin's release isn't slow. It's low, but the dude is 6-7, so it's still much higher than Jimmer's. Finally, I'm confused as to why you think Martin has better advanced stats than Kawhi at all. A quick glance at the stats show that's not true.

[Chucho]

ook, we can all post gobbledygook and think that makes us sound smart.

Trust me, aside from Bruno and a handfull of others that don't post here anymore, people rarely succeed at sounding smart on this shit trap of a board. Most of the members here are a bunch of fucktard trolls, or flat out dumb fucks that can barely manage jerking off. Or really, really stupid Euro trash or inhabitants of filthy 3rd world South American countries. You don't have to worry about people sounding smart.

[I. Hustle]

Trust me, aside from Bruno and a handfull of others that don't post here anymore, people rarely succeed at sounding smart on this shit trap of a board. Most of the members here are a bunch of fucktard trolls, or flat out dumb fucks that can barely manage jerking off. Or really, really stupid Euro trash or inhabitants of filthy 3rd world South American countries. You don't have to worry about people sounding smart.

Are you a part of the handful that has no problem jacking off or are you with the others that is barely managing?

[dabom]

Trust me, aside from Bruno and a handfull of others that don't post here anymore, people rarely succeed at sounding smart on this shit trap of a board. Most of the members here are a bunch of fucktard trolls, or flat out dumb fucks that can barely manage jerking off. Or really, really stupid Euro trash or inhabitants of filthy 3rd world South American countries. You don't have to worry about people sounding smart.
Bruno. :lmao

[Chucho]

Are you a part of the handful that has no problem jacking off or are you with the others that is barely managing?

Says the lame that has homo erotic quotes in his sig.

Nah, nigga. I got a woman. The fuck up.

[I. Hustle]

Says the lame that has homo erotic quotes in his sig.

Nah, nigga. I got a woman. The fuck up.

A Chucho that says nigga. Yeah, that's cool.

Why would you call your woman the fuck up? Does she mess up a lot?

[Chucho]

I'm as much a "Chucho" as you are a hustler, which is to say not at all.

You're not very good at this, eh? Step yo game up, sucka.

[I. Hustle]

I'm as much a "Chucho" as you are a hustler, which is to say not at all.

You're not very good at this, eh? Step yo game up, sucka.

So then you aren't a Chucho? You're confusing me.

Do you want to discuss the sigs further? You mentioned some homo eroticism. I have to be honest with you, I have had sigs turned off for quite some time and completely forgot about mine. Was there something about them that stirred something in you? When I typed those in years ago it was just something funny that someone else said.

Is it something that you think you want to act on? Some of those people aren't around anymore but I am pretty sure that I can get in touch. I will say though you might be disappointed because they might not share your feelings. Who am I to stand in the way of love though?

[I. Hustle]

Oh... and you misspelled Chocha.

[Chucho]

You're reaching, fella. Probably for scrotums. You lost. Neal with it.

[I. Hustle]

What exactly was I reaching for? Weren't you the one that first brought up dudes jerking off? Then you jumped right into homo eroticism. Not a big stretch there. You dove in head first. Now you are talking about reaching for scrotums.

http://mastersofmedia.hum.uva.nl/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/i-can-has-teh-phallus.jpg

[tholdren]

Look, we can all post gobbledygook and think that makes us sound smart. Again, I'm not saying stats are predictive or prescriptive. But they are descriptive. Martin has been limited by his release (not its speed, since it's fast, but its release point, which is low and off the the side). You can act like it's somehow a trick of numbers that his game favors one side of the floor, but it's just silly to anyone who's not trying to buoy their view that they know what their eyes saw.



Yeah. You haven't demonstrated the ability the analyze a player's game at all. So I don't care if you say you've watched him more. That's even more true because there's no way to verify how much you've watched him. Anyway, yeah, if the numbers say Martin has been biased to the left side of floor, and you eyes and experience seem to think he hasn't, I have no problem claiming your eyes and experience is wrong. No issue at all.



You mean like when the Kings selected Jimmer in the mid lottery? And no one's proven to be a good bet by data. Data explains the past. So it can tell teams who played well in college just fine, and those players can end up being poor pros for a number of reasons. Jimmer is a prime example of this.



I think you misunderstand the timbre of my disagreement with you. It's not, "OMG, I'm so smart that I understand all this stuff you can't because you're just a normal guy." It's, "This stuff is really obvious to anyone who looks, and if you weren't acting so foolish, you could absorb this basic info too." I'm not doing anything hard. You're just trying hard to downplay very easy to see things.



First, why bring Leonard into this? It's like you are a different person in this thread. You know I know Leonard has shooting issues. He's hardly a gold standard to compare floor-spacers. Second, Martin's release isn't slow. It's low, but the dude is 6-7, so it's still much higher than Jimmer's. Finally, I'm confused as to why you think Martin has better advanced stats than Kawhi at all. A quick glance at the stats show that's not true.

See that's your problem, you think that stats can only play one side of the "description" unfortunately your stats being used have about a billion other variables, so to make a conclusion, especially based on release or versatility based on a ridiculous info graphic means nothing, there is no "analysis" of the stat at all. It's baffling really.

Almost as intriguing is the spurs letting tiago go, wasn't he a defensive stat king?

Additionally I tried to type similar but put better. For as "versatile" as you have claimed martin isn't they share similar per. And martin gets to the line 2x as much as kl. Release has nothing to do with versatility. Oh wait the info graphic shows it does. Lol unreal

[Chinook]

See that's your problem, you think that stats can only play one side of the "description" unfortunately your stats being used have about a billion other variables, so to make a conclusion, especially based on release or versatility based on a ridiculous info graphic means nothing, there is no "analysis" of the stat at all. It's baffling really.

Dude, ALL of his seasons look like that. There was a website to show his shot charts for multiple seasons. Are you questioning the validity of the charts? If you're not, then you can't say him not being versatile is a myth. There's literally half of the court where he shoots below average. And not just non-elite. Like he hurts the offense if he's not on the left side.


Almost as intriguing is the spurs letting tiago go, wasn't he a defensive stat king?

Listen, I know you have no idea how stats work. I know that. So I'm not going to go into why you comparing advanced stats to a shot chart is stupid. Anyway, they let Splitter go because he was hurt and they wanted more offense. Pop bench Green for Beli. Did that invalidate Danny's elite defensive metrics?


Additionally I tried to type similar but put better. For as "versatile" as you have claimed martin isn't they share similar per.

PER is a misleading stat (like for real) first off, but that is just one stat. They aren't really all that close in other stats.


For as "versatile" as you have claimed martin isn't they share similar per. And martin gets to the line 2x as much as kl

Nothing to do with advanced stats. And yeah, he gets to the line more. So? Again with the Kawhi comparisons.


Release has nothing to do with versatility.

Of course it does. You act like he gets to the line because he release sucks. If he had a straight and high release, he could do everything he does but FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE COURT. That he would go from an almost exclusively left-side player to a player who could play on both sides would double his versatility, especially as a floor-spacer, which is what my comment was talking about.

Again, seems obvious you haven't watch Martin much at all if you didn't know he was left-dependent. It would be like you trying to say Tim were a three-point shooter. Just horrendous.

[tholdren]

Lol. Don't take into account martin plays on the left wing. Super analysis bro. Are you still in college?

[Spurtacular]

Yeah, slow releases are killers, as are lower release points. Martin has indeed "made it work" with his release, but there are very noticeable side effects to his game.

Like Jimmer, Martin is accurate on corner-threes, but he can't attempt many (only 26 percent of his threes come from the easiest spot along the arch) because people are able to close out on him. His rate of assisted threes is .867 for his career. That might seem like a lot (and it is compared to Jimmer's .615), but it's actually pretty low compared to elite shooters (Green and Korver are at .940 and .962, while Ray Allen in his best years with Boston and Miami was at .916-- though Curry is an obvious exception at .621 and Mills is closer to Martin at .820). Martin's ability to space the floor is definitely affected by his release point, and I also want to say that Martin is extremely side-dominate due to fling-shot form.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/629/149/kevinmartinchart_original.jpeg?1354126533

From his Thunder days. And this site (http://vorped.com/1-nba/2014-2015/player/887/kevin-martin/shotchart/) for last season. He's not nearly as versatile as he would be if he shot with better technique. Just like Jimmer, his shot locations are affected by his release, but at least Kevin is in the normal playing field.

When people assume that Jimmer can learn to play with his release being so awful, they fail to release that his game HAS ALREADY been modified to account for it. That's why he takes so many more shots off the dribble than he does spotting up, shoots from farther away from the basket and takes almost no corner shots. No one should wonder Jimmer can individually compensate for his limitations. He's done that already. He can do his thing one-on-one, which Kawhi found out when they were in school together.

The question has always been this: Does the way he compensates work in a team context? The answer for him is that it only really works on when a team lets him hold the ball and make his own offense. The more people try to get him into a normal spot-up situation, the harder it is for him to help the team. The more a coach wants him to stand in a corner, the fewer shots he'll be able to get off.

I can see how you would convince yourself of such things; and your thought process (albeit severely biased) is fair in many respects. But the reality is no team has ever committed to finding Jimmer consistently for the open looks on the corner threes. That drive and kick that Kawhi had to Jimmer; it just was not happening everywhere else Jimmer has played.

[apalisoc_9]

Yeah, slow releases are killers, as are lower release points. Martin has indeed "made it work" with his release, but there are very noticeable side effects to his game.

Like Jimmer, Martin is accurate on corner-threes, but he can't attempt many (only 26 percent of his threes come from the easiest spot along the arch) because people are able to close out on him. His rate of assisted threes is .867 for his career. That might seem like a lot (and it is compared to Jimmer's .615), but it's actually pretty low compared to elite shooters (Green and Korver are at .940 and .962, while Ray Allen in his best years with Boston and Miami was at .916-- though Curry is an obvious exception at .621 and Mills is closer to Martin at .820). Martin's ability to space the floor is definitely affected by his release point, and I also want to say that Martin is extremely side-dominate due to fling-shot form.

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/629/149/kevinmartinchart_original.jpeg?1354126533

From his Thunder days. And this site (http://vorped.com/1-nba/2014-2015/player/887/kevin-martin/shotchart/) for last season. He's not nearly as versatile as he would be if he shot with better technique. Just like Jimmer, his shot locations are affected by his release, but at least Kevin is in the normal playing field.

When people assume that Jimmer can learn to play with his release being so awful, they fail to release that his game HAS ALREADY been modified to account for it. That's why he takes so many more shots off the dribble than he does spotting up, shoots from farther away from the basket and takes almost no corner shots. No one should wonder Jimmer can individually compensate for his limitations. He's done that already. He can do his thing one-on-one, which Kawhi found out when they were in school together.

The question has always been this: Does the way he compensates work in a team context? The answer for him is that it only really works on when a team lets him hold the ball and make his own offense. The more people try to get him into a normal spot-up situation, the harder it is for him to help the team. The more a coach wants him to stand in a corner, the fewer shots he'll be able to get off.

Great Post

Also 188

Spurtacular

[apalisoc_9]

Why is the jimmer fanboy comparing a shitty offensive player to a high end offensive player who was the james harden of basketball before james harden in terms of drawing fouls and just an overall brilliant scorer and savy off the ball player? :lol

[benfti]

But remember Jimmer = Patty Mills



the same.

[Spurtacular]

Why is the jimmer fanboy comparing a shitty offensive player to a high end offensive player who was the james harden of basketball before james harden in terms of drawing fouls and just an overall brilliant scorer and savy off the ball player? :lol

Ariza?

[tholdren]

Why is the jimmer fanboy comparing a shitty offensive player to a high end offensive player who was the james harden of basketball before james harden in terms of drawing fouls and just an overall brilliant scorer and savy off the ball player? :lol

I don't think anyone is. Conversation is on release. It would be great if Leonard could get to the line like martin

[Nathan89]

Should just start Jimmer now that Parker is out.

[spursistan]

the news about him getting cut should fall in the next 48 hours, no? Pop said regular rotation will the focus next few home games..

[Chinook]

I can see how you would convince yourself of such things; and your thought process (albeit severely biased) is fair in many respects. But the reality is no team has ever committed to finding Jimmer consistently for the open looks on the corner threes. That drive and kick that Kawhi had to Jimmer; it just was not happening everywhere else Jimmer has played.

Do you think the Spurs are going to commit to finding JIMMER looks? Meaning are the Spurs going to treat him differently than any other shooter? I don't think so. Fredette hasn't been spotting up at his usual distance, which is why he's gotten like two spot-up shots off so far in the pre-season. It's one thing for him to be able to shot off broken coverage (like that Kawhi play you keep mentioning). It's another for him to shoot out of the half-court with normal rotations.

[Spurtacular]

Do you think the Spurs are going to commit to finding JIMMER looks? Meaning are the Spurs going to treat him differently than any other shooter? I don't think so. Fredette hasn't been spotting up at his usual distance, which is why he's gotten like two spot-up shots off so far in the pre-season. It's one thing for him to be able to shot off broken coverage (like that Kawhi play you keep mentioning). It's another for him to shoot out of the half-court with normal rotations.

Spurs will want to find Jimmer for the open looks just like they do with Green and Mills.

[Chinook]

Spurs will want to find Jimmer for the open looks just like they do with Green and Mills.

And you don't think that the Pelicans gave him the same looks they gave to Gordon, Anderson and Pondexter? Or Chicago that gave him the same looks that Dunlevy and Snell got? Why did those guys have the ability to spot up in their offenses but Jimmer struggled?

[SAGirl]

What should be alarming to Jimmer fans is that he's bricked open shots he's gotten and has had to put the ball on the floor a whole lot bc he's unable to take some looks thAt even shooters like Reggie Williams have attempted. He does have a slow shot and he is a small guard with short arms. It's a problem.

I think he's got a chance to be cut just simply bc he hasn't done what you thought he could do well and all the other things he does someone else can do better. However, in his favor, there is a chance he stays bc Tony is brittle. He's already got guaranteed money and the situation with Tony could be a regular occurrence.

[Spurtacular]

And you don't think that the Pelicans gave him the same looks they gave to Gordon, Anderson and Pondexter? Or Chicago that gave him the same looks that Dunlevy and Snell got? Why did those guys have the ability to spot up in their offenses but Jimmer struggled?

Do you think the Spurs won't be looking to give Jimmer the type of looks they are trying to get for Green and Mills?

[Chinook]

Do you think the Spurs won't be looking to give Jimmer the type of looks they are trying to get for Green and Mills?

For Jimmer's sake, I hope not. They have to find a way to create extra openings for Fredette if they want him to shoot anywhere near what Mills and Green are expected to.

[Chinook]

What should be alarming to Jimmer fans is that he's bricked open shots he's gotten and has had to put the ball on the floor a whole lot bc he's unable to take some looks thAt even shooters like Reggie Williams have attempted. He does have a slow shot and he is a small guard with short arms. It's a problem.

I think he's got a chance to be cut just simply bc he hasn't done what you thought he could do well and all the other things he does someone else can do better. However, in his favor, there is a chance he stays bc Tony is brittle. He's already got guaranteed money and the situation with Tony could be a regular occurrence.

What also works in his favor is that Butler may be competing with Bonner as much as he's competing with Jimmer. Fredette has been mainly useless so far in the pre-season, but he hasn't been a bad as Bonner. If the team thinks Butler can play stretch-four better than Matt, then maybe Jimmer hangs on as the sixth wing.

[Spurtacular]

For Jimmer's sake, I hope not. They have to find a way to create extra openings for Fredette if they want him to shoot anywhere near what Mills and Green are expected to.

That's nonsense.

[Chinook]

That's nonsense.

I'm curious how you're planning on explaining why these same offenses that are too bad to give Jimmer open looks have multiple players who took and made spot-up threes at an elite rate. How are Holliday and Davis passes to Eric Gordon or Quincy Pondexter money but the same passes to Jimmer are sub-par?

[SAGirl]

What also works in his favor is that Butler may be competing with Bonner as much as he's competing with Jimmer. Fredette has been mainly useless so far in the pre-season, but he hasn't been a bad as Bonner. If the team thinks Butler can play stretch-four better than Matt, then maybe Jimmer hangs on as the sixth wing.
I have also been very intrigued by this development, Pop could just be experimenting to see how well Butler does. MAtt has rarely played and always in the best lineups and those lineups with him have not done well. In comparison BUtler has been in less favourable lineups and has contributed enough to be a plus with those guys. If you switch one with the other in Butler's lineups I am nit sure Bonner would have done as well.

The other guys have been sent to the wolves to sink or swim in whatever lineup, Bonner has not. It leads me to believe he's safe bc he is so beloved that he will only be cut if they really need his spot. Does anyone in the motley crew bump Bonner out?

[Sean Cagney]

jimmer is done

Yep, that didn't take long. Good riddance.

[tholdren]

Do you think the Spurs are going to commit to finding JIMMER looks? Meaning are the Spurs going to treat him differently than any other shooter? I don't think so. Fredette hasn't been spotting up at his usual distance, which is why he's gotten like two spot-up shots off so far in the pre-season. It's one thing for him to be able to shot off broken coverage (like that Kawhi play you keep mentioning). It's another for him to shoot out of the half-court with normal rotations.

No, that's not the plan for Jimmer at all, at least it isn't what I would have in mind. My thought all along would be that they used Jimmer as a smarter version of Gary Neal, to hopefully become Patty or Marco .5 versions. I would assume that POP wants Jimmer to commit to finding himself looks, and knocking them down. But, it looks as if Jimmer won't make it/is playing scared.

Glad Tony is sitting this one out. Hopefully a bench player will emerge.

[Spurtacular]

No, that's not the plan for Jimmer at all, at least it isn't what I would have in mind. My thought all along would be that they used Jimmer as a smarter version of Gary Neal, to hopefully become Patty or Marco .5 versions. I would assume that POP wants Jimmer to commit to finding himself looks, and knocking them down. But, it looks as if Jimmer won't make it/is playing scared.

Glad Tony is sitting this one out. Hopefully a bench player will emerge.

Jimmer has been tentative about launching his shots; but he also hasn't played with great line-ups. I don't think Pop is going to make rash decisions based upon a few preseason games. Jimmer will settle into the system.

[ceperez]

I have also been very intrigued by this development, Pop could just be experimenting to see how well Butler does. MAtt has rarely played and always in the best lineups and those lineups with him have not done well. In comparison BUtler has been in less favourable lineups and has contributed enough to be a plus with those guys. If you switch one with the other in Butler's lineups I am nit sure Bonner would have done as well.

The other guys have been sent to the wolves to sink or swim in whatever lineup, Bonner has not. It leads me to believe he's safe bc he is so beloved that he will only be cut if they really need his spot. Does anyone in the motley crew bump Bonner out?

Hard to tell if Bonner will be cut. He's obviously under different rules that every other border-line Spur. May not seem to matter how bad he has played in the off-season.

[Spurtacular]

Hard to tell if Bonner will be cut. He's obviously under different rules that every other border-line Spur. May not seem to matter how bad he has played in the off-season.

Why would Bonner be cut? Spurs would not have signed him through Dec. plus if they had any significant intentions to maybe cut him before then. He's not going anywhere for the Rasual Butlers of the world.

Bonner is not a guy who needs much preseason reps. He stays ready to play his limited regular season minutes and plays hard in practice as such.

[SAGirl]

Why would Bonner be cut? Spurs would not have signed him through Dec. plus if they had any significant intentions to maybe cut him before then. He's not going anywhere for the Rasual Butlers of the world.

Bonner is not a guy who needs much preseason reps. He stays ready to play his limited regular season minutes and plays hard in practice as such.
I don't see him getting cut, but he needs to shoot the 3 at a respectable rate. He just doesn't add anything else at this point. I don't expect him to play much either, but rest being awarded to Tim and possible injuries being around, there is a chance he could be needed to play a few games for some minutes here or there. He doesn't rebound and doesn't defend well at this stage, he's not a skilled passer. Like I said, I don't think he gets cut this early either, but he may be gone if they need his spot (to the front office, to the coaching staff, take your pick). He needs to contribute something.

[apalisoc_9]

Great game from fredette today.

I'm positive he'll make the team now..

Just killed it today

[spursgu]

RIP

[siraulo23]

Wtf 83 pages

[jeebus]

Wtf 83 pages
Autism bro. The spurs forum is full of people with critical levels of it.

[ChumpDumper]

This is going to be a tough one to spin.

[benefactor]

Welp

[Gladney to see you]

He probably would have played if he were going to be cut...no?

[random21]

Cut this scrub

[Spurtacular]

I don't see him getting cut, but he needs to shoot the 3 at a respectable rate. He just doesn't add anything else at this point. I don't expect him to play much either, but rest being awarded to Tim and possible injuries being around, there is a chance he could be needed to play a few games for some minutes here or there. He doesn't rebound and doesn't defend well at this stage, he's not a skilled passer. Like I said, I don't think he gets cut this early either, but he may be gone if they need his spot (to the front office, to the coaching staff, take your pick). He needs to contribute something.

Perhaps, PATFO shares some of your concerns; hence the only partial guaranteed money. They'll be evaluating and make a decision in December or so.

[apalisoc_9]

Perhaps, PATFO shares some of your concerns; hence the only partial guaranteed money. They'll be evaluating and make a decision in December or so.

they already made decision.

[cd98]

I liked Jimmer, but it's obvious he is not making this roster. Two DNPs in the preseason. That's pretty much saying all that needs to be said. If you are a Jimmer fan, you better grab your Rockets tickets in the preseason, because that's the last chance you are going to see him in the NBA for at least the next year. Europe may do him well. He will get minutes to work on his game. I think he'll succeed over there. He's a great shooter, but he just doesn't have a well-rounded game.

[spurraider21]

Great game from fredette today.

I'm positive he'll make the team now..

Just killed it today
:lol

[tholdren]

I would say that he is cut based on the DNP today.

[apalisoc_9]

Jimmer Ferdette highlights vs Pistons Oct 14 2015...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKRgktzRvZ0

[tholdren]

So what is the deal, if he does get cut, with salary and how that affects SA and who they keep/pay?

[benefactor]

I can't believe Mormontacular still thinks Jimmer is making the roster.

[tholdren]

I can't believe Mormontacular still thinks Jimmer is making the roster.

Cant believe that Spurs paid money for Bonner, McCallum, Anderson, so many others.

[baseline bum]

You guys are nuts. Pop just rests his core guys. He did the same with Aldrdige, Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, and Diaw. You can't burn Fredette out in meaningless preseason games.

[benefactor]

So this is what my phone autocorrects to when I try to type Jimmer. Perfect.:lol

http://i.imgur.com/4ZnefHch.jpg

[Ditty]

Been hearing he will be cut tomorrow...

[Lostwingman]

Cant believe that Spurs paid money for Bonner, McCallum, Anderson, so many others.

http://i.imgur.com/gPdUrRl.jpg

[BatManu20]

Not that we needed any more confirmation, but Geoff Sheen of 1200 WOAI & the Ticket 760 said that Jimmer has about a 1% shot of making the team, and that he's being generous with that percentage.

In other words, he'll be gone tomorrow.

[cd98]

Jimmer would've had to play like Gary Neal did back when he made the squad. He just didn't shoot lights out.

[HarlemHeat37]

Nice..no more White Americans, please, its 2015..

[aal04]

So we threw what? 1 mill at a guy guaranteed just so we can have first look at him?

[BatManu20]

So we threw what? 1 mill at a guy guaranteed just so we can have first look at him?

Only $507,000 of it is guaranteed. Consider it a charitable donation.

[Aztecfan03]

Only $507,000 of it is guaranteed. Consider it a charitable donation.
but then spending another 500k(if they keep a 15th player) in luxury tax that they wouldn't have had to pay.

[aal04]

Only $507,000 of it is guaranteed. Consider it a charitable donation.

fuark me, i dont feel sorry for him one bit.

[Chinook]

The hope is that if/when Jimmer gets cut, someone else will pick him up off waivers and save the team money. Otherwise, I would consider stretching him. It would save the Spurs almost a million bucks this year, and it wouldn't really hinder them at all going forward.

[BillMc]

Jimmer will have a lot of money in the bank (by most standards for his age, if not NBA standards), has a gorgeous wife, and will get to play a game for a living in Europe or China. No real reason to feel sorry for him.

[Chinook]

Jimmer will have a lot of money in the bank (by most standards for his age, if not NBA standards), has a gorgeous wife, and will get to play a game for a living in Europe or China. No real reason to feel sorry for him.

Especially since he's on the verge of being cut because he wouldn't fix his game.

[Gladney to see you]

He must really suck if they didn't even let him play at home. I mean if Sykes played and is getting cut at least he got some pull. Will they do it by tomorrow? I might win a bet.

[ceperez]

Would have liked to see Jimmer show what he can do. However, Spurs seem to want to give Butler and Reggie Williams a lot more burn. That's definitely not a good sign.

I would be surprised that Bonner would get cut, but he also can't get himself into the court.

[BillMc]

Especially since he's on the verge of being cut because he wouldn't fix his game.

By that you mean his slow release? If so, I agree.

[ceperez]

Pre-season hasn't been kind to Jimmer. Pop seems to have forgotten that he's even in the team. Pop is playing Butler, Williams and Sykes all ahead of Jimmer. Jimmer has played probably as much minutes as Deshaun Thomas.

With Parker injured, you would think that there would be time freed up for Jimmer to play.

[BillMc]

Pre-season hasn't been kind to Jimmer. Pop seems to have forgotten that he's even in the team. Pop is playing Butler, Williams and Sykes all ahead of Jimmer. Jimmer has played probably as much minutes as Deshaun Thomas.

With Parker injured, you would think that there would be time freed up for Jimmer to play.

Which kind of implies that Pop has seen something in practice and already made his decision.

[ceperez]

Which kind of implies that Pop has seen something in practice and already made his decision.

If Jimmer can't even graduate into the regular season with the Spurs, then his NBA career is practically over.

[BillMc]

If Jimmer can't even graduate into the regular season with the Spurs, then his NBA career is practically over.

It might be, though some team without much depth may pick him up. Vlade may bring him back to Sactown on the cheap. Public pressure on the Jazz may make them give Jimmer a shot...who knows...China and Europe are likely too.

[cd98]

Pop said earlier that Jimmer was trying to show he was more than just a shooter. I think that's what he needed to prove to make the team. Spurs need a shooter, but they rarely go one dimensional. They like guys that can do a combination of different things so they have options. If Jimmer wasn't a pg or a small forward, it's tough to make the roster as just a shooting guard who can't play defense.

[BillMc]

Pop said earlier that Jimmer was trying to show he was more than just a shooter. I think that's what he needed to prove to make the team. Spurs need a shooter, but they rarely go one dimensional. They like guys that can do a combination of different things so they have options. If Jimmer wasn't a pg or a small forward, it's tough to make the roster as just a shooting guard who can't play defense.

That's a good point. Beli for example wasn't much on D, but besides shooting, was a pretty good passer and an OK playmaker.

[Gladney to see you]

Jimmer didn't play bad defense against the Hawks.

[Chinook]

It's the fact that he's only a set shooter in an open gym. So he didn't even pass the first test.

[Dex]

Jimmer has been absolutely awful in his limited game time. Runs the floor our of control, loose with the dribble, passing to guys out of bounds, trying to force that out-of-control spin move and ever opportunity, fouling opponents, getting lost of defense...it's hard to really come up with any positive impact he has made. He had one jumper that got wiped away from a DWest foul, and another spin-and-finish in garbage time at the end of a blowout.

Right now, he looks like a shooter who can't shoot, and struggles to really do anything else well. The only way he sticks around is if he has been playing lights out in practice, and the reports that have come out say the contrary. Spurs just need to eat the 500K and send this guy on his way.

[cd98]

Jimmer has been absolutely awful in his limited game time. Runs the floor our of control, loose with the dribble, passing to guys out of bounds, trying to force that out-of-control spin move and ever opportunity, fouling opponents, getting lost of defense...it's hard to really come up with any positive impact he has made. He had one jumper that got wiped away from a DWest foul, and another spin-and-finish in garbage time at the end of a blowout.

Right now, he looks like a shooter who can't shoot, and struggles to really do anything else well. The only way he sticks around is if he has been playing lights out in practice, and the reports that have come out say the contrary. Spurs just need to eat the 500K and send this guy on his way.

To be fair to Jimmer, I don’t think you can totally judge him by his playing time in the preseason. He didn’t play many minutes, and when he did, he played with guys that were all trying to jack up shots to show they belong on the team. I thought the Spurs signed him to spread the floor. To see if he could do that or not in a preseason game would require him to play with starters. He really didn’t get any minutes with them. He mostly got minutes in garbage time with the rest of the garbage players. I’m guessing the imperfections in Jimmer’s game, at least to the Spurs, were noted behind the scenes in practice.

[cd98]

I think I’m being a little unfair in calling any of these guys garbage. The reality is that every person on that roster would clean our clocks in basketball and make up the 1% of great basketball players in the world. They just aren’t good enough to stay in the NBA, which is one of the hardest jobs to get and keep.

[Chinook]

I thought the Spurs signed him to spread the floor. To see if he could do that or not in a preseason game would require him to play with starters.

I don't get that logic. If Jimmer needs other guys to make him look good, he doesn't deserve a rotation spot. There are numerous guys in the d-league or worse who can hit WIDE OPEN shots. So what makes Jimmer better than them? Well, the answer seems to be nothing. It completely boggles my mind as to how Pop could sign off on guaranteeing Jimmer so much money.

[Dex]

I don't get that logic. If Jimmer needs other guys to make him look good, he doesn't deserve a rotation spot. There are numerous guys in the d-league or worse who can hit WIDE OPEN shots. So what makes Jimmer better than them? Well, the answer seems to be nothing. It completely boggles my mind as to how Pop could sign off on guaranteeing Jimmer so much money.

PATFO has a great track record, but they are obviously not infallible (lest we forget the Nick Van Exels, Richard Jeffersons, and Keith Bogans of our times).

The only logical explanation I can think of is that Jimmer was on the radar of a number of teams, but the Spurs still thought there was some potential there. In order to secure him for camp and give him a tryout, they had to outpay the other bidders. As the saying goes, you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet...and sometimes you just end up with scrambled eggs.

In the case of Fredette, it looks like we ended up getting some burnt scrambled eggs that fell on the floor...then got shit on by the dog.

[Chinook]

Yeah, but seriously, they should have taken care of their hope for him after the first workout. Dude has fatal flaws in his game. If those aren't fixed, he's not an NBA player. One workout. "You still shoot like that? Well, thanks anyway." I don't even think he has upside. Just an awful read all around.

[cd98]

I don't get that logic. If Jimmer needs other guys to make him look good, he doesn't deserve a rotation spot. There are numerous guys in the d-league or worse who can hit WIDE OPEN shots. So what makes Jimmer better than them? Well, the answer seems to be nothing. It completely boggles my mind as to how Pop could sign off on guaranteeing Jimmer so much money.

The logic is that a floor spreader is one that punishes a team for double teaming a player. Basically, it keeps a defense honest. But when you are playing a bunch of players that don’t demand a double team, a shooter like Jimmer doesn’t really help. Then, it becomes more of a one on one. If he played with LMA or Duncan or Kawhi, those are players that get double teamed. When they do, the idea is to kick it out to Jimmer for an open three. If Jimmer shoots at a high percentage, then teams are forced to play those guys straight up or risk giving up a three.

But when Jimmer plays with the same guys that aren’t going to make the roster, those guys get played straight up. When Jimmer was playing against Atlanta, none of his teammates demanded a double team. So his shooting wasn’t a factor in spreading the court or keeping a defense honest. Jimmer wasn’t brought in to be a one-on-one scorer, but effectively, that’s what he was asked to do in garbage time.

[ChumpDumper]

It looks like Jimmer has never played an organized game of basketball in his life.

[cd98]

I don't get that logic. If Jimmer needs other guys to make him look good, he doesn't deserve a rotation spot. There are numerous guys in the d-league or worse who can hit WIDE OPEN shots. So what makes Jimmer better than them? Well, the answer seems to be nothing. It completely boggles my mind as to how Pop could sign off on guaranteeing Jimmer so much money.

I also disagree with your assessment regarding D-Leaguers that can hit wide open threes. Those guys tend to shoot poor percentages when they get to the NBA. There aren’t a lot of reliable three point shooters. Jimmer is a guy that shot over 50% for a time from three. You can’t pick that up in the D-league otherwise that’s what the Spurs would have already done. Shooters are a rare asset in a league that is dominated with superior, but less skill athletes.

[Chinook]

The logic is that a floor spreader is one that punishes a team for double teaming a player. Basically, it keeps a defense honest. But when you are playing a bunch of players that don’t demand a double team, a shooter like Jimmer doesn’t really help. Then, it becomes more of a one on one. If he played with LMA or Duncan or Kawhi, those are players that get double teamed. When they do, the idea is to kick it out to Jimmer for an open three. If Jimmer shoots at a high percentage, then teams are forced to play those guys straight up or risk giving up a three.

But when Jimmer plays with the same guys that aren’t going to make the roster, those guys get played straight up. When Jimmer was playing against Atlanta, none of his teammates demanded a double team. So his shooting wasn’t a factor in spreading the court or keeping a defense honest. Jimmer wasn’t brought in to be a one-on-one scorer, but effectively, that’s what he was asked to do in garbage time.

WHAT is going on with your formatting?

Anyway, the goal of a floor-spacer is to prevent double-teams, not just to take advantage of them. Danny's job with the Spurs is to be covered, not to be open. Jimmer can only make shots if he's WIDE OPEN. But so many many scrubs. For the first three years, Jimmer has been living off a reputation of being a credible spot-up threat. But last year, it seems teams figured out he can't shoot from normal sets and are leaving him alone.

From a defenses perspective, spacing can be thought of like this: How far toward the basket can I sink without giving this guy a good look. For Green, it's not more than a step or two. For Novak, it's like an arm's length. For Jimmer, it's damned near 20 feet. Seriously. That's how bad his spacing is.


I also disagree with your assessment regarding D-Leaguers that can hit wide open threes. Those guys tend to shoot poor percentages when they get to the NBA. There aren’t a lot of reliable three point shooters. Jimmer is a guy that shot over 50% for a time from three. You can’t pick that up in the D-league otherwise that’s what the Spurs would have already done. Shooters are a rare asset in a league that is dominated with superior, but less skill athletes.

D-leaguers struggle to hit threes in the NBA because they get less spacing. Do you seriously think that a corner-three in the d-league is just naturally easier than a corner-three in the big league? Jimmer's problem is the same as those guys: He needs more space to shoot than is usually available. A partial difference between him and those scrubs is that he can shoot threes off the dribble. But that's not really a good thing for the team.

Teams pick up knock-down shooters from the d-league every year. Look at Novak or Troy Daniels. It'll probably be Eddie in a year or two. All of those guys are superior to Jimmer, which is why at least two of them are in the NBA, and Fredette's on his way out.

[ceperez]

In fairness to Jimmer's situation, the Spurs will need additional 3 point shooters to counter the likes of the Warriors.

If the Warriors start hitting their 3's, the Spurs will need to do the same to keep up or alternatively have a ton of easy baskets in the paint.

Other than Patty Mills, I don't see any additional exceptional 3 point shooters on the bench.

[monkeypunk]

http://m.memegen.com/gd5q7a.jpg

[Mel_13]

It completely boggles my mind as to how Pop could sign off on guaranteeing Jimmer so much money.

He shares an agent with West. Consider the 500k a finder's fee.

[SAGirl]

Would have liked to see Jimmer show what he can do. However, Spurs seem to want to give Butler and Reggie Williams a lot more burn. That's definitely not a good sign.

I would be surprised that Bonner would get cut, but he also can't get himself into the court.
I have a theory that he doesn't need to prove anything at this point. He's declined and unlikely to play and if he does it will be short minutes. Will be suited u most of the time. Will only be waived later in the season if they really need his spot bc of an injury or an interesting guy became available. I hope he's making his 3s in practice, thus they don't need to see anything else from him.

[SAGirl]

Especially since he's on the verge of being cut because he wouldn't fix his game.
He really should have reworked that shot a long time ago.

[SAGirl]

Pre-season hasn't been kind to Jimmer. Pop seems to have forgotten that he's even in the team. Pop is playing Butler, Williams and Sykes all ahead of Jimmer. Jimmer has played probably as much minutes as Deshaun Thomas.

With Parker injured, you would think that there would be time freed up for Jimmer to play.
He's been awful, but I think the worst is that they were intrigued by his potential to get hot and ability to hit the 3 and he hasn't done that. I mean Ray has shot the 3 better.

He reminds me of Daye. If they are not getting hot from 3, they don't help you win games and look like garbage everywhere else.

[Dex]

In fairness to Jimmer's situation, the Spurs will need additional 3 point shooters to counter the likes of the Warriors.

If the Warriors start hitting their 3's, the Spurs will need to do the same to keep up or alternatively have a ton of easy baskets in the paint.

Other than Patty Mills, I don't see any additional exceptional 3 point shooters on the bench.

Having a "shooter" like Fredette does absolutely no good if he can't make a goddamn shot. Then you've just got a guy out there wasting possessions and acting like a traffic cone on defense.

If this was a case of Jimmer making baskets but being awful at everything else, I may be able to see a case for him. But frankly, he hasn't even shown the ability to do the main thing he was brought in to do.

[Chinook]

He really should have reworked that shot a long time ago.

Seriously. That's why I made that Tebow comment earlier in the thread. He gets all these points for being a character guy, but like Tebow he seems resistant to coaching. His shot is bad, bad and ineffective in catch-and-shoot situations. And his fans just ignore that and chalk it up to fit. There's no good team that can fit Jimmer in. He's the problem, not everyone else.

[Birn]

The Spurs are not evaluating his shot. They know he can make shots. They want to see if he's able to do other things. He's a decent passer and runs the PNR pretty well. They know what they want to see from him. It's not shooting like most of you morons believe.

[cd98]

Right. People here are assuming he can't shoot in the NBA. They don't really know why Pop hasn't been playing him. I would say his shot is the least of his worries.

[benfti]

I had a conversation with a guy last night and I think a viable comparison came up when it came to athletic ability. Matthew Dellavedova from the Cavs. Jimmer came out of school with more fan fare but where both excellent collage players. Both restricted athletically. Delly a little taller

Jimmer is the better shooter. But Dellys effort defensively is why he is a rotation player on a contending team, and Jimmer will be out on his a$$

[AFBlue]

Did I miss the press release where he got cut?

[Dex]

The Spurs are not evaluating his shot. They know he can make shots. They want to see if he's able to do other things. He's a decent passer and runs the PNR pretty well. They know what they want to see from him. It's not shooting like most of you morons believe.

Well, if they are hoping to see other things from him, then he has gotten a big fat F.

Send him packing.

[Nathan89]

Seriously. That's why I made that Tebow comment earlier in the thread. He gets all these points for being a character guy, but like Tebow he seems resistant to coaching. His shot is bad, bad and ineffective in catch-and-shoot situations. And his fans just ignore that and chalk it up to fit. There's no good team that can fit Jimmer in. He's the problem, not everyone else.

How do you know what Jimmer and Tebow tried to do to their game? There is a good chance both of them have tried to make any change their coaches have suggested. It's hard to alter a motion in a drastic way.

[cd98]

Well, if they are hoping to see other things from him, then he has gotten a big fat F.

Send him packing.

Except you don't really know. He's hardly played and has not had enough minutes to evaluate him based on games. Maybe his playing time is reflective of what is happening in practice. But we aren't privy to that.

[ChumpDumper]

Ever think Jimmer might just be getting some up front money to play in Austin to start the season? I guess it may be more likely he wold be picked up by another team, but there are four allocation slots for the Toros....

[playbonner15]

Ever think Jimmer might just be getting some up front money to play in Austin to start the season? I guess it may be more likely he wold be picked up by another team, but there are four allocation slots for the Toros....

Yeah Jimmer might prove himself in the Toros. But I think he'll play overseas instead

[Chinook]

How do you know what Jimmer and Tebow tried to do to their game? There is a good chance both of them have tried to make any change their coaches have suggested. It's hard to alter a motion in a drastic way.

Well, there were reports about Tebow working on his game for many off-seasons and looking decent until the games started. Then he'd just revert back to his old motion. I can't say the same thing for Jimmer. But I've seen no evidence that he ever changed his shot.

[Chinook]

Ever think Jimmer might just be getting some up front money to play in Austin to start the season?

Nah. There'd have to be a reason to think he had developmental upside. That would suggest the team would want to make changes to his game. I've seen nothing from him that indicates he has done anything like that.

[Chinook]

Right. People here are assuming he can't shoot in the NBA. They don't really know why Pop hasn't been playing him. I would say his shot is the least of his worries.

Which explains why he's barely hanging onto a TC spot. Dude can't get his set shot off against normal NBA defenses. If that's the least of his worries...

[ChumpDumper]

Nah. There'd have to be a reason to think he had developmental upside. That would suggest the team would want to make changes to his game. I've seen nothing from him that indicates he has done anything like that.Maybe just to sell some tickets in the burbs. Like I said, there are four slots -- if he's willing and they are able why not use them all?

[Nathan89]

Well, there were reports about Tebow working on his game for many off-seasons and looking decent until the games started. Then he'd just revert back to his old motion. I can't say the same thing for Jimmer. But I've seen no evidence that he ever changed his shot.

So Tebow wasn't resistant to coaching. In the case of Jimmer perhaps it's because he couldn't successfully do it in practice. I haven't tracked his shooting motion but he could've also changed it in marginal ways.

[Maddog]

He shares an agent with West. Consider the 500k a finder's fee.

I really wonder how much that played into his signing.
The 500K guarantee seems a bit much for a player who A) has a remote chance and B) doesn't quite fit the type of player the Spurs bring in for a look see.
While the Spurs like shooters they usually look at people who can do more than shoot. Danny defense, Patty able to score some not great ball handling and energy
Even Austin Daye- length and rebounding.

[CGD]

When will they make the final cuts?

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Nah. There'd have to be a reason to think he had developmental upside. That would suggest the team would want to make changes to his game. I've seen nothing from him that indicates he has done anything like that.

Dude, it took Kawhi a full season to alter his shot. He had that same cocking his arm before shooting mechanic. And quite honestly, it took him 3 years before he finally perfected it. I think Jimmer has potential. That is why he is still on the roster. I see him doing a stint in Austin for two months and the Spurs will then play him for a week or two and decide to cut him before the waiver/trade deadline.

He had done pretty decent running the point when playing with the starters. But yes, he has struggled with the 3RD STRING PLAYERS. Even KA and Simmons has struggled and in turn have done better in the brief time they played with the starters. I think Pop will be listening to Chip on this one. If Chip thinks Jimmer can't be coached up, he will be cut early. But If he sees potential that he is progressing weekly in changing his shot mechanics, I think he will make the team for the first part of the season.

People act like Jimmer is the only one that has been struggling. KA, Simmons, West, LMA, and others have struggled as well.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

I really wonder how much that played into his signing.
The 500K guarantee seems a bit much for a player who A) has a remote chance and B) doesn't quite fit the type of player the Spurs bring in for a look see.
While the Spurs like shooters they usually look at people who can do more than shoot. Danny defense, Patty able to score some not great ball handling and energy
Even Austin Daye- length and rebounding.

No, I think Jimmer will be assigned to the Toros for the first part of the year, which is why his contract is guaranteed for the 1st two 1/2 months. two + months is enough to see if the guy has any shot of changing and adapting his game at this point. I can see him becoming a Steve Kerr like player for the Spurs if he really put the effort into. He is finally on a team where the coaches are noted for developing players with bad mechanics (both defense and offense) and making them viable NBA players.

Like I said in a far earlier post, if he can't be coached up by the Spurs staff, then yes, it would be obvious then, he just isn't NBA material.

[ElNono]

:lol

[apalisoc_9]

jimmer stan is still dreaming

This guy is one of the better new posters in spurstalk, IMO..and All Rookie team.

[benefactor]

I don't think Pop is going to make rash decisions based upon a few preseason games. Jimmer will settle into the system.

They'll be evaluating and make a decision in December or so.
:lol

[benefactor]

^nigga saw the writing on the wall and abandoned this thread like two pages ago.:lol

[baseline bum]

:cry Joseph Smith rolling in his grave at Jimmer's shitty career :cry

[cd98]

And to think, Jimmer could be living it up in Greece had he not had a pit stop in S.A.

[benefactor]

:cry Joseph Smith rolling in his grave at Jimmer's shitty career :cry
:cry where's mah hat and seer stone :cry
:cry need a speshel word for Jimmah :cry

[baseline bum]

:cry where's mah hat and seer stone :cry
:cry need a speshel word for Jimmah :cry

:cry Maybe he can find his jumper on Kolob :cry

[ceperez]

No, I think Jimmer will be assigned to the Toros for the first part of the year, which is why his contract is guaranteed for the 1st two 1/2 months. two + months is enough to see if the guy has any shot of changing and adapting his game at this point. I can see him becoming a Steve Kerr like player for the Spurs if he really put the effort into. He is finally on a team where the coaches are noted for developing players with bad mechanics (both defense and offense) and making them viable NBA players.

Like I said in a far earlier post, if he can't be coached up by the Spurs staff, then yes, it would be obvious then, he just isn't NBA material.

Speaking of Steve Kerr.... he barely played until he was needed against that game against Dallas.

[Gladney to see you]

The obsessive dislike of this guy is quite unsettling.

[Lostwingman]

The obsessive dislike of this guy is quite unsettling.

"Obsessive dislike"

More like there was a guy who would rabidly defend jimjam against any critical post. Low hanging fruit.

[Chinook]

The obsessive dislike of this guy is quite unsettling.

It's been good for the board. There are so many factions that can't agree on which player they like most, but they can all come together on disliking Jimmer.

[Gladney to see you]

"Obsessive dislike"

More like there was a guy who would rabidly defend jimjam against any critical post. Low hanging fruit.

There are people on here who hate him just as much if not more. I'm guessing it has more to do with college, but this whole this is just ridiculous in my view. So one fan is rabid and Jimmer infests the whole forum. As they say it takes two to fight. I find it bizarre. It did make the summer go by I admit, but Jimmer sucks in almost every thread is overkill IMO.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Speaking of Steve Kerr.... he barely played until he was needed against that game against Dallas.

He played a lot during the '99 run. Seriously, do you think that '03 was the only year Kerr played for the Spurs. He played for the Spurs for 4 YEARS. He had one year where he played in Portland then came back to the Spurs to finish his career, which he retired alongside Robinson.

[Gladney to see you]

Kerr had a dirt slow release

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

The obsessive dislike of this guy is quite unsettling.

Obviously people haven't seen Simmons and Ray's performances thus far. They have been worse than Jimmer's so far and I am not being biased. Last night was a disaster.

Him not playing doesn't mean he is going to be cut. It could mean that the Spurs are putting him through rigorous workouts with Chip to perfect his shooting. In a couple of months he has been with the Spurs, I have notice, he doesn't cocked his arm all the way back when he shooting. There is still some signs of it. Look at the GIF posted. He goes straight up with the Shot. Still a little cocking actions, but not nearly as much as it was when he was with the Kings. His release is noticeably more quicker.

Say what you want, Jimmer has run the point better than Ray has thus far.

[Gladney to see you]

Obviously people haven't seen Simmons and Ray's performances thus far. They have been worse than Jimmer's so far and I am not being biased. Last night was a disaster.

Him not playing doesn't mean he is going to be cut. It could mean that the Spurs are putting him through rigorous workouts with Chip to perfect his shooting. In a couple of months he has been with the Spurs, I have notice, he doesn't cocked his arm all the way back when he shooting. There is still some signs of it. Look at the GIF posted. He goes straight up with the Shot. Still a little cocking actions, but not nearly as much as it was when he was with the Kings. His release is noticeably more quicker.

Say what you want, Jimmer has run the point better than Ray has thus far.

I haven't seen enough of him to know. I looked through some highlights and it is hard to tell. Seems like a decent guy that the spurs would want, but he hasn't played great. I think he is a bit of a victim of being Jimmer right now. Shooters have to shoot and he probably won't get that many chances to. He does have some skill if he could relax it seems. He has had a lot of chances in his career though. Without evidence to the contrary people wouldn't be wrong to expect him to be cut.