Jimmer Fredette to the Spurs (Update: Mostly Non-Guaranteed Training Camp Deal)

[Spurtacular]

One of the bigs and McCallum or Fredette would be the ones not dressing. Simmons could play sg,sf, and some pg. It doesn't make sense to not dress him.

There's trade-offs no matter who sits.

[8FOR!3]

Bobo = Diaw.

Bobi = Marjanovic.

But to your point, teams often times like to keep that 15th spot open for a potential player down the road, whether it be via trad, FA, or the waiver wire.

So if we wanted to keep Jimmer does his contract going into the season have to be guaranteed?

[Spurtacular]

So if we wanted to keep Jimmer does his contract going into the season have to be guaranteed?

Reportedly, Jimmer's contract is guaranteed through Jan. 8th if he makes the squad.

[Ice009]

If Simmons can play defense at the NBA level then I would much rather play him over a player that can't guard a traffic cone. If he can play good defense then a Kawhi, Danny, Simmons lineup gets me excited to see what a lineup like that could do out there with their versatility on that end of the court. Hopefully Jonathon comes onto the team with a defense first mindset and uses that as his starting point.

I'm sorry, but I want all my players to play defense. I don't like guys that are piss poor defenders. That was one of my main issues with Parker this past season. I didn't care that much about his offense, it was mostly his horrendous defense that drove me crazy.

[Spurtacular]

If Simmons can play defense at the NBA level then I would much rather play him over a player that can't guard a traffic cone. If he can play good defense then a Kawhi, Danny, Simmons lineup gets me excited to see what a lineup like that could do out there with their versatility on that end of the court. Hopefully Jonathon comes onto the team with a defense first mindset and uses that as his starting point.

I'm sorry, but I want all my players to play defense. I don't like guys that are piss poor defenders. That was one of my main issues with Parker this past season. I didn't care that much about his offense, it was mostly his horrendous defense that drove me crazy.

Jimmer's defensive woes are overblown. And what he can do offensively is a huge plus.

I agree that Tony Parker's defense was absolute shiesta last season; and that was a source of contention for me as well.

[ceperez]

If Simmons can play defense at the NBA level then I would much rather play him over a player that can't guard a traffic cone. If he can play good defense then a Kawhi, Danny, Simmons lineup gets me excited to see what a lineup like that could do out there with their versatility on that end of the court. Hopefully Jonathon comes onto the team with a defense first mindset and uses that as his starting point.

I'm sorry, but I want all my players to play defense. I don't like guys that are piss poor defenders. That was one of my main issues with Parker this past season. I didn't care that much about his offense, it was mostly his horrendous defense that drove me crazy.

Same here, I prefer that everyone one court can play stellar defense. I'm looking forward to the combination of Simmons, Green and Leonard. Simmons (unlike Green) is more of an active body that can score with a decent clip in the lane. He's absolutely a better shooter than Tony Allen, so teams aren't going to be daring him to shoot.

[dweaver99027]

That lineup won't even get past halfcourt when the opponent presses.

[playjimmer]

There's trade-offs no matter who sits.
There will be a good chunk of games where one of the big 3 are sitting too.

[playbonner15]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c9/51/ec/c951ecd228d9376e8f3f71f293b88f21.jpg

Awkward white guy shooting form. 2/10 would not sub

[SPURt]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c9/51/ec/c951ecd228d9376e8f3f71f293b88f21.jpg

Awkward white guy shooting form. 2/10 would not sub

This is like the footprints on the beach poster in ever pastor/preacher/chimo's office across America. He is taking his left hand off early so Jesus's hand can stabilize the ball...

[littlecoyotecoin]

This is like the footprints on the beach poster in ever pastor/preacher/chimo's office across America. He is taking his left hand off early so Jesus's hand can stabilize the ball...

That was funny.

[AFBlue]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c9/51/ec/c951ecd228d9376e8f3f71f293b88f21.jpg

Awkward white guy shooting form. 2/10 would not sub

Hi pot, meet kettle. I believe you two have something in common.

[Spurtacular]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/c9/51/ec/c951ecd228d9376e8f3f71f293b88f21.jpg

Awkward white guy shooting form. 2/10 would not sub

Blue line - Jimmer's deep three percent
Black line - Jimmer's closer three percent

http://nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/image_thumb2.png?w=554&h=541

Source (http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/13/extra-pass-jimmer-fredette-salvaging-nba-career-with-long-3-pointers/)

[SAGirl]

Something else to consider about Fredette odds at making the roster is the financial aspect. Because Spurs are above the tax, it will cost them quite a lot of money to keep him (between $2M and $2.4M depending on his likely guaranteed amount).

In a scenario where Fredette is doing fine (but nothing great) and is better than the other candidates for the 15th roster spot, it might still be cut if at the same time Simmons, Anderson, McCallum are also doing fine. It could take both Fredette doing fine and Spurs needing him because some other players are sucking for him to get that roster spot.
I agree with this. It reminds me of Ayers vs. Jamychal Green during summer camp and preseason last year. To me, it looked like J.Green was a better player. He hustled harder, rebounded better, blocked shots, and he had a jumper. Ayers was of course, foul prone, could not catch a ball, could not shoot a jumper and he did not stand out. For me, the fact that Green had range on his jumper made him a better option, when both were within an 1 inch in height and about the same in athleticism. I think J.Green didn't make it, bc Ayers was already signed and J.Green was only slightly better. Mid-season they reconsidered because range shooting from the bigs was a big problem, as well as athleticism and rebounding. J.Green ultimately found a better financial offer in Memphis and went with that. Spurs knew they needed all cap space for Aldridge and did not match or improve offers.

Anyways, I digress. The point is, I agree that Jimmer would have to absolutely impress, coupled with doubts being raised about the ability of any of the PG/SG. Its unlikely. I do think he would need to beat out Williams big time, and that would require Reggie to suck really, really bad. I am unsure about the outcome. I am not a fan of either guy, and will be happy any way the Spurs decide to go. They clearly know their business.

[ceperez]

I agree with this. It reminds me of Ayers vs. Jamychal Green during summer camp and preseason last year. To me, it looked like J.Green was a better player. He hustled harder, rebounded better, blocked shots, and he had a jumper. Ayers was of course, foul prone, could not catch a ball, could not shoot a jumper and he did not stand out. For me, the fact that Green had range on his jumper made him a better option, when both were within an 1 inch in height and about the same in athleticism. I think J.Green didn't make it, bc Ayers was already signed and J.Green was only slightly better. Mid-season they reconsidered because range shooting from the bigs was a big problem, as well as athleticism and rebounding. J.Green ultimately found a better financial offer in Memphis and went with that. Spurs knew they needed all cap space for Aldridge and did not match or improve offers.

Anyways, I digress. The point is, I agree that Jimmer would have to absolutely impress, coupled with doubts being raised about the ability of any of the PG/SG. Its unlikely. I do think he would need to beat out Williams big time, and that would require Reggie to suck really, really bad. I am unsure about the outcome. I am not a fan of either guy, and will be happy any way the Spurs decide to go. They clearly know their business.

Really too bad about Jamychal Green. I was disappointed that he wasn't singed when we still had Ayres on the bench who didn't have the skills to contribute.

I don't think Spurs will fill the 15th slot unless Jimmer really impresses. I doubt Williams will get that 15th slot, I just don't see how an undersized SG will be of any value.

[AFBlue]

I just don't see how an undersized SG will be of any value.

Mills says hi.

The Spurs can always use shooters in their system. All Jimmer has to do is move to the right spot and hit the open shot when the ball swings his way.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Mills says hi.

The Spurs can always use shooters in their system. All Jimmer has to do is move to the right spot and hit the open shot when the ball swings his way.

He probably meant to say ANOTHER one. The one we have is already under contract, salary accounted for. Jimmer will cost additional 2.4-2.7 as you know. 1/2 and 4 are our deepest positions. I know you love the guy :) You should be talking up his versatility as a defensive center, or small forward.

[Big P]

Eric Pincus: Jimmer has $508k of his deal guaranteed – Reggie Williams $0
– via Twitter EricPincus

Wow!

[littlecoyotecoin]

Eric Pincus: Jimmer has $508k of his deal guaranteed – Reggie Williams $0
– via Twitter EricPincus

Wow!

Old news, no confirmation of Pincus' twit, and serious speculation that he got Bonner's partial guarantee confused with Jimmer. So, not so wow just yet.

[AFBlue]

He probably meant to say ANOTHER one. The one we have is already under contract, salary accounted for. Jimmer will cost additional 2.4-2.7 as you know. 1/2 and 4 are our deepest positions. I know you love the guy :) You should be talking up his versatility as a defensive center, or small forward.

He's not an ideal replacement for Beli, but let's not act like he's much less versatile on either end of the floor. Both are shooting guards known for their shooting and not much else. One of them is no longer with the Spurs. I used Mills to illustrate the point that shooters are a commodity in any shape or size. I could just as easily have used Bonner.

[AFBlue]

Old news, no confirmation of Pincus' twit, and serious speculation that he got Bonner's partial guarantee confused with Jimmer. So, not so wow just yet.

Pincus confirmed Bonner also has a partial guarantee of approx. $800K. Both within the last couple hours. That would suggest both have been confirmed as partially guaranteed deals. It hasn't been corroborated, but at least Bruno's assertion that it was a mistake by Pincus mixing up the two guarantees appears to no longer be valid.

[Spurtacular]

Old news, no confirmation of Pincus' twit, and serious speculation that he got Bonner's partial guarantee confused with Jimmer. So, not so wow just yet.

We know that Jimmer was given a partial guarantee either way. Multiple sources have reported that.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Pincus confirmed Bonner also has a partial guarantee of approx. $800K. Both within the last couple hours. That would suggest both have been confirmed as partially guaranteed deals. It hasn't been corroborated, but at least Bruno's assertion that it was a mistake by Pincus mixing up the two guarantees appears to no longer be valid.

Hmm. The plot thickens. Interesting.

[Spurtacular]

People are really worried about Jimmer costing the Spurs $2.4 M to $2.7 M extra? Do they not realize that someone like Jimmer who has a following is going to make up for that in jersey sales, ticket sales, tv ratings, etc. And even if he didn't, you still pull the trigger if you think it increases your depth when seriously competing for a championship.

[littlecoyotecoin]

We know that Jimmer was given a partial guarantee either way. Multiple sources have reported that.

Cotton was given a partial guarantee last year, too. 50k to go away. If it is, indeed, 500+k, it seems safe to say he's almost a lock to make the team, and it's his spot to lose. If Pincus is wrong, he's still no closer than Cotton was to making the team. It is interesting and favorable to Jimmer that Pincus seems to be doubling down on his bet.

This would seem to imply a heck of a lot more confidence in Simmons and/or Anderson, actually. Making that investment in Jimmer, as some have already mentioned, implies they're happy at small forward?

[littlecoyotecoin]

People are really worried about Jimmer costing the Spurs $2.4 M to $2.7 M extra? Do they not realize that someone like Jimmer who has a following is going to make up for that in jersey sales, ticket sales, tv ratings, etc. And even if he didn't, you still pull the trigger if you think it increases your depth when seriously competing for a championship.

I'm not sure Jimmer jersey sales in Utah go directly into their pocket, and this is Jimmer 5 years on. I am even hoping some of that has dissipated. Gambling on trying to make that money back on cult of personality is not how I would imagine them addressing their roster. But, no, "people" are not worried. That's you hyperbolizing the situation. However, I do Imagine they take into consideration saving a million or more dollars, while at the same time finding someone that is a better fit. I am sure that they took that into consideration. It's called being prudent. Not worrying.

But, if Pincus is correct, it looks like they may have agreed with you, that Jimmer's worth the gamble.

Not based upon Tebow-like hysteria and potential to recoup the money on Jimmer Jumper club level packages, or other type of Jimmer mania would bring. It would be in spite of that circus, probably. Not because of it, or hope for it.

[Spurtacular]

I'm not sure Jimmer jersey sales in Utah go directly into their pocket, and this is Jimmer 5 years on. I am even hoping some of that has dissipated. Gambling on trying to make that money back on cult of personality is not how I would imagine them addressing their roster. But, no, "people" are not worried. That's you hyperbolizing the situation. However, I do Imagine they take into consideration saving a million or more dollars, while at the same time finding someone that is a better fit. I am sure that they took that into consideration. It's called being prudent. Not worrying.

But, if Pincus is correct, it looks like they may have agreed with you, that Jimmer's worth the gamble.

Not based upon Tebow-like hysteria and potential to recoup the money on Jimmer Jumper club level packages, or other type of Jimmer mania would bring. It would be in spite of that circus, probably. Not because of it, or hope for it.

No hyperbole. Plenty of people have argued this from the financial angle.

And my point is that cutting Jimmer isn't gonna save money; it's gonna cost money. Thus, if you keep Jimmer off the team it is because you see a better option on the court.

[littlecoyotecoin]

He's not an ideal replacement for Beli, but let's not act like he's much less versatile on either end of the floor. Both are shooting guards known for their shooting and not much else. One of them is no longer with the Spurs. I used Mills to illustrate the point that shooters are a commodity in any shape or size. I could just as easily have used Bonner.

I simply think Beli's size makes him much more versatile, considering we already have a Jimmer in Patty. If he were 3-4 inches taller, you wouldn't hear a peep out of me. He would be Beli. But, he small.

Anyway, I'm going to root him on, why not? I always assume they know better than me. Pincus says they've all but made the decision to run with him.

[Big P]

Old news, no confirmation of Pincus' twit, and serious speculation that he got Bonner's partial guarantee confused with Jimmer. So, not so wow just yet.

He just tweeted it so it can't be that old, don't shoot the messenger, I'm just ready for the season to start.

[SAGirl]

Cotton was given a partial guarantee last year, too. 50k to go away. If it is, indeed, 500+k, it seems safe to say he's almost a lock to make the team, and it's his spot to lose. If Pincus is wrong, he's still no closer than Cotton was to making the team. It is interesting and favorable to Jimmer that Pincus seems to be doubling down on his bet.

This would seem to imply a heck of a lot more confidence in Simmons and/or Anderson, actually. Making that investment in Jimmer, as some have already mentioned, implies they're happy at small forward?
As much as everyone has doubted the amazing duo of Anderson/Simmons that we had in Summer League, I think Spurs loved those two!!! I loved them! They play really well together and make each other better. I know ppl doubt them bc they are unproven, but they are not unknown to the Spurs or new to the system. Spurs have taken flyers on guys before based on their own evaluation. Anderson in particular they have nurtured like a young son. He played about 40 mins per game over 26 games in the D'league last year, and Simmons they know from 2 years in Austin. The effort they both put in made them stand out. I think Spurs believe they will be good enough for the roles they will be asked to play (and I hope better because I like them so much!!!). But lets be more realistic, they will be good enough.

It's actually Ok to get a shooter in Jimmer. Reggie did not produce like he was expected to last year. Spurs waived Austin Daye and got someone who was not much better TBH. Jimmer played poorly last year too. So it will be a race between these two. If both are bad, then the Spurs don't retain either and leave that spot open possibly.

[littlecoyotecoin]

No hyperbole. Plenty of people have argued this from the financial angle.

And my point is that cutting Jimmer isn't gonna save money; it's gonna cost money. Thus, if you keep Jimmer off the team it is because you see a better option on the court.

Yes. Itis complete hyperbole to say we or the Spurs are worrying. Taking these things into consideration is. Not. Worrying. That's you overstating the discussion.

And, I must have missed your summary as to how cutting him was going to cost money, which I'm not su sure I believe, and is probably based on them guaranteeing him 500k, which sounds more possible after Pincus' reiteration, but still not written stone. If so, though, much of this is moot. They wouldn't guarantee that much unless they were relatively confident he'd make the team. Good for him.

[littlecoyotecoin]

He just tweeted it so it can't be that old, don't shoot the messenger, I'm just ready for the season to start.

No problemo.

[Birn]

Like it or not, Jimmer is taking the 15th roster spot at least until January 10. That's the date by which all contracts are guaranteed for the rest of the season. Same for Bonner. They both have guarantees for half a season. The only way Jimmer isn't on the roster opening night is if someone dramatically and unexpectedly emerges in training camp. The way I see it, the Spurs want to take a long look to see if he could fit into their system. If not, he's gone January 10 and they have a spot open for waivers, buyouts, d league call ups, etc. The only thing the Spurs want him here to do is shoot the ball. I foresee him being used much the same way Redick is used by the clippers. He won't be playing as much as Redick does but he could give the Spurs yet another offensive look for opposing teams to consider. The potential versatility of our roster could be scary for opponents. It could make it virtually impossible to game plan against the Spurs.

[Spurtacular]

Yes. Itis complete hyperbole to say we or the Spurs are worrying. Taking these things into consideration is. Not. Worrying. That's you overstating the discussion.

And, I must have missed your summary as to how cutting him was going to cost money, which I'm not su sure I believe, and is probably based on them guaranteeing him 500k, which sounds more possible after Pincus' reiteration, but still not written stone. If so, though, much of this is moot. They wouldn't guarantee that much unless they were relatively confident he'd make the team. Good for him.

Uh, "some people" does not mean you or the Spurs, dude. Thus, I'm not overstating anything. I'm relaying exactly what some people have argued and I'm putting forth a counter argument. There's no hyperbole in that; and if you still think that, then I suggest you pick up a dictionary and read it.

I'm not privy to all of the Spurs financials or every aspect of the CBA; but I can tell you that the Spurs will be making more that $2.7 M off of Jimmer this season. I'm not saying that perhaps Jimmer mania hasn't died down, but Kings merchandise sales went up 540 percent in one year upon the arrival of Jimmer. In merchandise sales alone, I would not be surprised if the $2.7 M was eclipsed. This says nothing of added ticket sales, ratings, etc. Now, I'm not saying that this is of any over-riding concern to the Spurs. But what I am saying is that Jimmer will not be cut based on financials.

[Spurtacular]

It's actually Ok to get a shooter in Jimmer. Reggie did not produce like he was expected to last year. Spurs waived Austin Daye and got someone who was not much better TBH. Jimmer played poorly last year too. So it will be a race between these two. If both are bad, then the Spurs don't retain either and leave that spot open possibly.

Reggie would have to dazzle at training camp to get the spot over Jimmer. If I were him, I'd consider asking the team for a release so that he can get ahead of the curve and try out for another team.

[playbonner15]

You think jimmer's better than a Harden 2.0?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htksUXr8lIU

[ceperez]

You think jimmer's better than a Harden 2.0?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htksUXr8lIU

Didn't realize that he's a left handed player.

That's why he's in the roster, more like a Manu backup. Anyway, Spurs have Simmons now.

[DenialTwist]

Eric Pincus reported that Jimmer has $508k of his deal guaranteed. Reggie Williams has $0 guaranteed. One of the SAEN beat writers also said recently he thought Williams knew he wasn't coming back because Williams posted something on his instagram thanking the spurs fans. It will be interesting to see what happens after training camp. BTW, Bonner is guaranteed about $795k.

https://twitter.com/EricPincus/status/628362418528354304

[ceperez]

Eric Pincus reported that Jimmer has $508k of his deal guaranteed. Reggie Williams has $0 guaranteed. One of the SAEN beat writers also said recently he thought Williams knew he wasn't coming back because Williams posted something on his instagram thanking the spurs fans. It will be interesting to see what happens after training camp. BTW, Bonner is guaranteed about $795k.

https://twitter.com/EricPincus/status/628362418528354304

Thanks for the info. Williams is likely going to sign off-shore. NBA veterans like Williams aren't entitled to any pay while in camp. That's different from Ndoye who at least gets some per diem.

[Spurtacular]

You think jimmer's better than a Harden 2.0?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htksUXr8lIU

More like Harden 0.2.

[littlecoyotecoin]

More like Harden 0.2.

Re: "some people" are worried is even worse than saying just me. It implies a group. Can you name them? Who is worried? If it's several individuals, what verbiage did they use that implied worry? I know you can't answer those question, as no one is worried.

People are just pointing out facts.

And, Bruno is sticking to his claim that Pincus is probably making an error, Fwiw.

The rest of that stuff is two in the bush, the 1+ million is a bird in the hand. I still doubt the Spurs of all teams are going to consider that. They pick him if he is best fit/best available and priced right.

Definitely another good soap opera, to add to Boban's bum foot.

[Spurtacular]

Re: "some people" are worried is even worse than saying just me. It implies a group. Can you name them? Who is worried? If it's several individuals, what verbiage did they use that implied worry? I know you can't answer those question, as no one is worried.

People are just pointing out facts.

And, Bruno is sticking to his claim that Pincus is probably making an error, Fwiw.

The rest of that stuff is two in the bush, the 1+ million is a bird in the hand. I still doubt the Spurs of all teams are going to consider that. They pick him if he is best fit/best available and priced right.

Definitely another good soap opera, to add to Boban's bum foot.

Dude, you don't even have to search beyond this thread to find people making the financial arguments. And there's been a good amount of that on the board as a whole.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Dude, you don't even have to search beyond this thread to find people making the financial arguments. And there's been a good amount of that on the board as a whole.

Making an argument is not worry. Worry has a specific connotation associated with it. It was pointed out that they may not want to pay double for him, especially if someone is comparable in camp. This does not constitute worry, dude. Who are these multiple people that are worried, and what verbiage did they use that rose to the level of worry...people...plural. Who?

[Spurtacular]

Making an argument is not worry. Worry has a specific connotation associated with it. It was pointed out that they may not want to pay double for him, especially if someone is comparable in camp. This does not constitute worry, dude. Who are these multiple people that are worried, and what verbiage did they use that rose to the level of worry...people...plural. Who?

Worried vs. argument? Semantics, dude. And I've already pointed out that the paying double argument is a farce (or miscalculation) as the Spurs will be profiting on Jimmer. That was the whole thing I've explained X times, and then you come back and re-make the argument anyhow :lol

Plenty of people have argued against signing Jimmer from a financial p.o.v. But why would I want to go back and find the specific examples for you? That doesn't make sense. You must think I have nothing better to do with my time.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Worried vs. argument? Semantics, dude. And I've already pointed out that the paying double argument is a farce (or miscalculation) as the Spurs will be profiting on Jimmer. That was the whole thing I've explained X times, and then you come back and re-make the argument anyhow :lol

Plenty of people have argued against signing Jimmer from a financial p.o.v. But why would I want to go back and find the specific examples for you? That doesn't make sense. You must think I have nothing better to do with my time.

Making a well-reasoned argument is not the same as worrying. It is often the opposite. Cold, calculating, and emotionless. The opposite of worry. The idea that you want to equate them semantically is understandable, given you won't be able to go back and find multiple people that were worried.

These were your words and semantics you disagreed with. I didn't care to get into it, but YOU kep saying you weren't hyperbolizing the situation. You threw a hissy fit when I said you were hyperbolizing the Jimmer salary discussion. You said people are worrying about it. The arguments were pretty matter of fact. So, you wish to retract your "people worrying" comment and replace it with "arguing" that he would cost more? No problem. I guess you agree that no one was worried about The Spurs' decision, just pointing out some cases against Jimmer. To backpedal would be a good move.

I'm not going to say you are worried, but if anyone is being passionate, bias, and/or emotional about the kid, I would have to bet on you. Bruno's argument was dispassionate. I am as indifferent as can be toward their decision. If they give him the spot, I'll take their word for it. I was thinking someone bigger, but I don't care if they over-ride my preference.

Will you be as indifferent if Bruno is right, Pincus is wrong, and Jimmer doesn't make the team? Maybe, but it sure doesn't sound like it.

[Spurtacular]

Making a well-reasoned argument is not the same as worrying. It is often the opposite. Cold, calculating, and emotionless. The opposite of worry. The idea that you want to equate them semantically is understandable, given you won't be able to go back and find multiple people that were worried.

These were your words and semantics you disagreed with. I didn't care to get into it, but YOU kep saying you weren't hyperbolizing the situation. You threw a hissy fit when I said you were hyperbolizing the Jimmer salary discussion. You said people are worrying about it. The arguments were pretty matter of fact. So, you wish to retract your "people worrying" comment and replace it with "arguing" that he would cost more? No problem. I guess you agree that no one was worried about The Spurs' decision, just pointing out some cases against Jimmer. To backpedal would be a good move.

I'm not going to say you are worried, but if anyone is being passionate, bias, and/or emotional about the kid, I would have to bet on you. Bruno's argument was dispassionate. I am as indifferent as can be toward their decision. If they give him the spot, I'll take their word for it. I was thinking someone bigger, but I don't care if they over-ride my preference.

Will you be as indifferent if Bruno is right, Pincus is wrong, and Jimmer doesn't make the team? Maybe, but it sure doesn't sound like it.

The idea that worry has a "connotation" doesn't mean that an argument doesn't express a worry or a concern, dude. You are engaging in ridiculous semantics at this point. And your hyperbole argument is only an extension of your ridiculousness.

No hissy fit either, dude. It's you who are now taking a step into hyperbole by characterizing my responses as such.

Furthermore, I retract nothing. I've explained that this board is littered with arguments or concerns about keeping Jimmer based upon a financial p.o.v. And I mean littered. This shouldn't even be a road you're pursuing. If I thought it was one or two or three posts, I might be at least tempted to go back and find stuff for you. But the financial angle has been raised on plenty of occasions; and you frequent this thread/board enough to know that. Now I ask again, what is the motivation for me to go collect all these statements for you that are common occurrences? I'm not going to cater to your laziness or just denseness, whatever the case may be.

You throwing out that I have a bias does nothing to supplement your lame arguments, btw. Everyone has biases. And you are biased as well despite your lame claim that you're "indifferent." You have been fairly anti-Jimmer to one degree or another throughout this. So, don't come on and tell me I have a bias and then say you're Peter Perfect. It's like Jesus said, stop finding the mote in other people's eyes while ignoring the mote in your own eye. That sermon's free of charge, son.

And why would I be indifferent if Jimmer doesn't make the team? What the hell would that supposed to accomplish? I say it upfront, I think it would be a mistake to not keep Jimmer.

Also, I don't think Pincus is wrong for the record; but I don't see the point in speculating about it too much.

[rastaspur]

White people just clamor to any Americanwhite player wishing for another bird. Morrison and jimmer fit the stereotype. This dudes a scrub at worst and an end of the bench guy at best.

How this thread has gotten up to 35 pages is beyond me. I can't believe I'm giving this advice, but quit waisting your time talking about jimmer and go watch some porn or score some crack. It would be a more productive use of your time imo

[littlecoyotecoin]

The idea that worry has a "connotation" doesn't mean that an argument doesn't express a worry or a concern, dude. You are engaging in ridiculous semantics at this point. And your hyperbole argument is only an extension of your ridiculousness.

No hissy fit either, dude. It's you who are now taking a step into hyperbole by characterizing my responses as such.

Furthermore, I retract nothing. I've explained that this board is littered with arguments or concerns about keeping Jimmer based upon a financial p.o.v. And I mean littered. This shouldn't even be a road you're pursuing. If I thought it was one or two or three posts, I might be at least tempted to go back and find stuff for you. But the financial angle has been raised on plenty of occasions; and you frequent this thread/board enough to know that. Now I ask again, what is the motivation for me to go collect all these statements for you that are common occurrences? I'm not going to cater to your laziness or just denseness, whatever the case may be.

You throwing out that I have a bias does nothing to supplement your lame arguments, btw. Everyone has biases. And you are biased as well despite your lame claim that you're "indifferent." You have been fairly anti-Jimmer to one degree or another throughout this. So, don't come on and tell me I have a bias and then say you're Peter Perfect. It's like Jesus said, stop finding the mote in other people's eyes while ignoring the mote in your own eye. That sermon's free of charge, son.

And why would I be indifferent if Jimmer doesn't make the team? What the hell would that supposed to accomplish? I say it upfront, I think it would be a mistake to not keep Jimmer.

Also, I don't think Pincus is wrong for the record; but I don't see the point in speculating about it too much.

No. Ridiculous is claiming something that never happened, then redefining words to be equal that aren't even close to having the same definition because it's the only way it gets you out of the original erroneous claim. The fact you can't understand that, or won't just own up to it, is why I didn't bother to read anything else you wrote in this post other than that first sentence, and why I won't bother to read any more after.

No one was worried.

Good luck to you and your boy though.

[Spurtacular]

No. Ridiculous is claiming something that never happened, then redefining words to be equal that aren't even close to having the same definition because it's the only way it gets you out of the original erroneous claim. The fact you can't understand that, or won't just own up to it, is why I didn't bother to read anything else you wrote in this post other than that first sentence, and why I won't bother to read any more after.

No one was worried.

Good luck to you and your boy though.

See, that post was probably sort of an implosion if not a hissy fit. Some posters have expressed concern (worry) / made the argument against Jimmer to one degree or another based upon a financial p.o.v. Putting semantic protestations aside, do you somehow deny that this is the case, honestly?

[AFBlue]

I'm gonna ask Spurtacular and lcc to declare a truce tbqh. Life's too short to be arguing over a role player on the Spurs bench. The Spurs got the premier free agent (no, LeBron doesn't count) this offseason and are STAAAAACKED next year. Whether or not Jimmer makes the team in the long run is pretty irrelevant. I think he could be a good piece, but I'm not losing sleep if he gets cut. Just enjoy the summer fellas. It's been a damn good one.

[Spurtacular]

Pretty sure the argument has ran it's course, tbh....

I'm excited about Jimmer as well. I think he'll be on the squad at least through Jan. 10. So, it's not like I'm even stressing on that point.

I think Jimmer can or will generate much excitement with his play, tbqh.

[AFBlue]

JIMMER IS GARY NEAL 0.5 :downspin:

Do you know that putting your takes in all caps doesn't make them any better?

[BatManu20]

628339658179629056




Name
2015-16
2016-17
2017-18
2018-19
2019-20


LaMarcus Aldridge (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$19,689,000
$20,575,005
$21,461,010
$22,347,015



Kawhi Leonard (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$16,407,500
$17,638,063
$18,868,625
$20,099,189
$21,329,752


Tony Parker (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$13,437,500
$14,445,313
$15,453,126




Danny Green (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$10,000,000
$10,000,000
$10,000,000
$10,000,000



Boris Diaw (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$7,500,000
$7,000,000
$7,500,000




Tim Duncan (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$5,250,000
$5,643,750





Patty Mills (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$3,578,947
$3,578,948





Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$2,814,000
$2,940,630





David West (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$1,499,187
$1,551,659





Boban Marjanovic (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$1,200,000
$1,500,000





Reggie Williams (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$1,185,784






Kyle Anderson (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$1,142,879
$1,192,080
$2,151,704
$3,227,556



Ray McCallum (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$947,276
$1,215,696





Matt Bonner (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$947,276






Jimmer Fredette (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$947,276






Jonathan Simmons (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$525,093
$874,636
$1,214,746




Youssou Ndoye (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)







Guaranteed Total:
$85,248,687
$69,237,329
$65,782,761
$20,099,189



Inclusive Total:
$87,071,718
$88,155,780
$76,649,211
$55,673,760
$21,329,752

[AFBlue]

Lol, someone posted Bruno's comment about Pincus messing up. Hopefully it gets a reply tbqh.

[Spurtacular]

628339658179629056




Name
2015-16
2016-17
2017-18
2018-19
2019-20


LaMarcus Aldridge (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$19,689,000
$20,575,005
$21,461,010
$22,347,015



Kawhi Leonard (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$16,407,500
$17,638,063
$18,868,625
$20,099,189
$21,329,752


Tony Parker (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$13,437,500
$14,445,313
$15,453,126




Danny Green (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$10,000,000
$10,000,000
$10,000,000
$10,000,000



Boris Diaw (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$7,500,000
$7,000,000
$7,500,000




Tim Duncan (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$5,250,000
$5,643,750





Patty Mills (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$3,578,947
$3,578,948





Manu Ginobili (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$2,814,000
$2,940,630





David West (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$1,499,187
$1,551,659





Boban Marjanovic (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$1,200,000
$1,500,000





Reggie Williams (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$1,185,784






Kyle Anderson (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$1,142,879
$1,192,080
$2,151,704
$3,227,556



Ray McCallum (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$947,276
$1,215,696





Matt Bonner (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$947,276






Jimmer Fredette (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$947,276






Jonathan Simmons (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)
$525,093
$874,636
$1,214,746




Youssou Ndoye (http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/#)







Guaranteed Total:
$85,248,687
$69,237,329
$65,782,761
$20,099,189



Inclusive Total:
$87,071,718
$88,155,780
$76,649,211
$55,673,760
$21,329,752




I had originally heard that Simmons had signed for two years. I'm guessing the third year is a player option? If so, he'll probably turn that down and sign for more. But if it's a team option, that's gonna be a heck of a value.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

^ It's a QO. Deal is 2 years, 2nd year non guaranteed.

[ceperez]

I had originally heard that Simmons had signed for two years. I'm guessing the third year is a player option? If so, he'll probably turn that down and sign for more. But if it's a team option, that's gonna be a heck of a value.

3rd year is a qualifying offer, so he can be restricted on 3rd year. So, he can be locked in for 2 years with Spurs.

Interesting about Kyle Anderson, this is his last year if he doesn't deliver. Next year is team option. I think a lot of his detractors like this.

This chart makes it look like Jimmer and Bonner are competing for the same contract. Bonner is perfectly content to sit in street clothes, I wonder if Jimmer will feel the same.

[Spurtacular]

3rd year is a qualifying offer, so he can be restricted on 3rd year. So, he can be locked in for 2 years with Spurs.

Interesting about Kyle Anderson, this is his last year if he doesn't deliver. Next year is team option. I think a lot of his detractors like this.

This chart makes it look like Jimmer and Bonner are competing for the same contract. Bonner is perfectly content to sit in street clothes, I wonder if Jimmer will feel the same.

If KA doesn't have a good season but shows improvement, I'd think the Spurs would exercise his option. Though, they might trade him after the fact.

[Chinook]

Interesting about Kyle Anderson, this is his last year if he doesn't deliver. Next year is team option. I think a lot of his detractors like this.

At worst, Kyle is playing for his fourth year, not his third. Teams have to pick up those options by 10/31. With Anderson's SLMVP performances, he's a lock to get that option picked up. However, I guess there's a chance he doesn't get 2017-2018 picked up next year if he doesn't have a good upcoming season.

[ceperez]

At worst, Kyle is playing for his fourth year, not his third. Teams have to pick up those options by 10/31. With Anderson's SLMVP performances, he's a lock to get that option picked up. However, I guess there's a chance he doesn't get 2017-2018 picked up next year if he doesn't have a good upcoming season.

10/31/2016. He's got one year to deliver or get waived after. Update: Waived or traded.

[Chinook]

10/31/2016. He's got one year to deliver or get waived after.

No. It's 10/31 this season for 2016-2017.

[ceperez]

No. It's 10/31 this season for 2016-2017.

One year ahead?

[Chinook]

One year ahead?

Yes. 10/31/2016 is the deadline for 2017-2018.

[ceperez]

Yes. 10/31/2016 is the deadline for 2017-2018.

Interesting. So it's likely Spurs pick up that option. Anderson 2 more years then.

[playjimmer]

3rd year is a qualifying offer, so he can be restricted on 3rd year. So, he can be locked in for 2 years with Spurs.

Interesting about Kyle Anderson, this is his last year if he doesn't deliver. Next year is team option. I think a lot of his detractors like this.

This chart makes it look like Jimmer and Bonner are competing for the same contract. Bonner is perfectly content to sit in street clothes, I wonder if Jimmer will feel the same.
chart doesn't say it, but if you go to the website, you can find out that they have the partial guarantees that have already been discussed. reggie williams has none.

[Gladney to see you]

This is an amazing thread.

[AFBlue]

I have no idea why there's a question around Anderson. He's cheap, under team control for three more years, and is developing nicely as a prospect. I don't know that he'll ever be more than a role player/bench guy, but not everyone the Spurs sign or draft can be Kawhi. Seems like a foregone conclusion he'd be with the team through his rookie contract.

[Spurtacular]

I have no idea why there's a question around Anderson. He's cheap, under team control for three more years, and is developing nicely as a prospect. I don't know that he'll ever be more than a role player/bench guy, but not everyone the Spurs sign or draft can be Kawhi. Seems like a foregone conclusion he'd be with the team through his rookie contract.

KA is definitely in the Spurs plans for the foreseeable future, imo. I'm not willing to say his ceiling is that low yet. He is an incredibly skilled and intelligent player with a body to grow into.

[ceperez]

I have no idea why there's a question around Anderson. He's cheap, under team control for three more years, and is developing nicely as a prospect. I don't know that he'll ever be more than a role player/bench guy, but not everyone the Spurs sign or draft can be Kawhi. Seems like a foregone conclusion he'd be with the team through his rookie contract.

Spurs fans have very high expectations for 1st round draft picks. Unfortunately, for the last 11 years, it's been mostly busts. Only Splitter and Hill made contributions in the playoffs.

2014 - Kyle Anderson
2013 - LJC <----------------bust (could have drafted Gobert)
2012 - no picks
2011 - Cojo <--------------- no contribution in the playoffs except for a great dunk on Ibaka
2010 - James Anderson <---bust
2009 - no picks
2008 - George Hill
2008 - no picks
2007 - Splitter
2005 - Ian Mahinmi <--------bust
2004 - Beno Udrih <----------bust

[Nathan89]

Spurs fans have very high expectations for 1st round draft picks. Unfortunately, for the last 11 years, it's been mostly busts. Only Splitter and Hill made contributions in the playoffs.

2014 - Kyle Anderson
2013 - LJC <----------------bust (could have drafted Gobert)
2012 - no picks
2011 - Cojo <--------------- no contribution in the playoffs except for a great dunk on Ibaka
2010 - James Anderson <---bust
2009 - no picks
2008 - George Hill
2008 - no picks
2007 - Splitter
2005 - Ian Mahinmi <--------bust
2004 - Beno Udrih <----------bust

Beno, Hill, Cojo, and Splitter are all solid picks. That's not bad. And then there is the Kawhi trade that showcased their drafting ability as well.

[AFBlue]

Spurs fans have very high expectations for 1st round draft picks. Unfortunately, for the last 11 years, it's been mostly busts. Only Splitter and Hill made contributions in the playoffs.

2014 - Kyle Anderson
2013 - LJC <----------------bust (could have drafted Gobert)
2012 - no picks
2011 - Cojo <--------------- no contribution in the playoffs except for a great dunk on Ibaka
2010 - James Anderson <---bust
2009 - no picks
2008 - George Hill
2008 - no picks
2007 - Splitter
2005 - Ian Mahinmi <--------bust
2004 - Beno Udrih <----------bust

Hard to call players busts that were picked at the end of the first and played out their first contract, and in most cases into a second or third. Mahinmi and Beno aren't world beaters, but they contributed a decent amount in their time with the Spurs. The only true bust on that list is James Anderson, and his career with the Spurs was derailed by injury tbqh. Jury is still out on LJC, but I'd probably give you that one too.

I think KA is probably somewhere between Hill and Splitter when all is said and done tbqh.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Hard to call players busts that were picked at the end of the first and played out their first contract, and in most cases into a second or third. Mahinmi and Beno aren't world beaters, but they contributed a decent amount in their time with the Spurs. The only true bust on that list is James Anderson, and his career with the Spurs was derailed by injury tbqh. Jury is still out on LJC, but I'd probably give you that one too.

I think KA is probably somewhere between Hill and Splitter when all is said and done tbqh.

Yeah. Not to mention that not only did Ian and Beno contribute some to The Spurs, they further proved serviceable to other NBA teams afterwards. Not bad resumes for late draft picks. LJC may never amount to anything, but the rest of the list is pretty solid given their draft positions.

[ceperez]

Hard to call players busts that were picked at the end of the first and played out their first contract, and in most cases into a second or third. Mahinmi and Beno aren't world beaters, but they contributed a decent amount in their time with the Spurs. The only true bust on that list is James Anderson, and his career with the Spurs was derailed by injury tbqh. Jury is still out on LJC, but I'd probably give you that one too.

I think KA is probably somewhere between Hill and Splitter when all is said and done tbqh.

Spurs consider not winning the championship a failure.

So a non-bust in my classification is someone who materially contributed to a championship. That would be (1) Splitter who started and (2) Hill who got traded for Leonard.

Beno won a championship, but it was despite of his bad PG play.

[AFBlue]

Spurs consider not winning the championship a failure.

So a non-bust in my classification is someone who materially contributed to a championship. That would be (1) Splitter who started and (2) Hill who got traded for Leonard.

Beno won a championship, but it was despite of his bad PG play.

If that's how you classify it, then so be it. Personally, I wouldn't hinge one player's success in a Spurs uni on the outcome of what would be a full team effort. But to each their own.

[littlecoyotecoin]

If that's how you classify it, then so be it. Personally, I wouldn't hinge one player's success in a Spurs uni on the outcome of what would be a full team effort. But to each their own.

Yeah. Beno has had a ten year NBA career picked 28th. Pretty darn good. Definitely not a bust vs position in the draft. Ian, similarly, has had a good career vs draft position. 28th pick, as well. Both still playing last year. Lost of first rounders never play at all, much less that long. Much less ones drafted that late.

[tholdren]

How much better is Jimmer than KA?

[AFBlue]

How much better is Jimmer than KA?

At the Dougie? I mean Jimmer got skills tbqh.

[Spurtacular]

Spurs fans have very high expectations for 1st round draft picks. Unfortunately, for the last 11 years, it's been mostly busts. Only Splitter and Hill made contributions in the playoffs.

2014 - Kyle Anderson
2013 - LJC <----------------bust (could have drafted Gobert)
2012 - no picks
2011 - Cojo <--------------- no contribution in the playoffs except for a great dunk on Ibaka
2010 - James Anderson <---bust
2009 - no picks
2008 - George Hill
2008 - no picks
2007 - Splitter
2005 - Ian Mahinmi <--------bust
2004 - Beno Udrih <----------bust

CoJo gave the Spurs some important minutes in Game 6 of OKC. I don't know that I'm on board with Udrih and Mahinmi weren't contributors either. The argument would probably be more along the lines of they could've drafted better in those instances.

[ceperez]

CoJo gave the Spurs some important minutes in Game 6 of OKC. I don't know that I'm on board with Udrih and Mahinmi weren't contributors either. The argument would probably be more along the lines of they could've drafted better in those instances.

Fair enough criteria (i.e. "who could've Spurs drafted instead").

Cojo (2010) #29.... could have drafted Jimmy Butler (#30).... absolute BUST.
Mahinmi (2005) #28 .... could have drafted David Lee (#30)
Udrih (2004) #28 ... could have drafted Anderson Verejao (#30)

[ceperez]

Just a thought, Jimmer will be the highest 1st round draft pick at #10 in Spurs roster after Duncan and Aldridge.

[dweaver99027]

Interesting... Let's see... best case scenarios for past drafts... 2013 - Trade up one spot and pick Gobert at#27 - 2012 Trade into the second round and pick Draymond Green at #35 - 2011 Pick Jimmy Butler or Chandler Parsons at # 29 - 2010 Trade up 2 spots and pick Bledsoe at #18 - 2009 Nothing realistic - 2008 DeAndre Jordan at #26, trade up 2 spots for Ibaka at #26 or stay with George Hill. Also keep Dragic st #45 - 2007 Splitter at #28 and Marc Gasol at #33 - 2006 Nothing realistic - 2005 David Lee or Monta Ellis at #28 - 2004 Varejao at #28 - 2003 Josh Howard at #29 or keep Barbosa - 2002 Boozer at #26 - 2001 Nailed it - 2000 Michael Redd at #41 (so close) - 1999 Trade up 5 spots to #24 for Kirilenko, plus Manu - 1998 Rashard Lewis at #24 - 1997 Keith Van Horn at #1

[littlecoyotecoin]

Fair enough criteria (i.e. "who could've Spurs drafted instead").

Cojo (2010) #29.... could have drafted Jimmy Butler (#30).... absolute BUST.
Mahinmi (2005) #28 .... could have drafted David Lee (#30)
Udrih (2004) #28 ... could have drafted Anderson Verejao (#30)

Just because in retrospect you could have drafted someone else better doesn't make the person you drafted a bust...did The Spurs get good value for their 28-30th picks? Yes. Therefore...they aren't busts, by just about any definition of a bust...you're making a new definition of bust I' e never heard...

[Chinook]

Fair enough criteria (i.e. "who could've Spurs drafted instead").

Huh?

[benefactor]

Holy shit ceperez shut the fuck up

[thunder]

36 pages on Jimmer fucking Fredette:lol. ceperez go find another hobby

[ceperez]

Interesting... Let's see... best case scenarios for past drafts... 2013 - Trade up one spot and pick Gobert at#27 - 2012 Trade into the second round and pick Draymond Green at #35 - 2011 Pick Jimmy Butler or Chandler Parsons at # 29 - 2010 Trade up 2 spots and pick Bledsoe at #18 - 2009 Nothing realistic - 2008 DeAndre Jordan at #26, trade up 2 spots for Ibaka at #26 or stay with George Hill. Also keep Dragic st #45 - 2007 Splitter at #28 and Marc Gasol at #33 - 2006 Nothing realistic - 2005 David Lee or Monta Ellis at #28 - 2004 Varejao at #28 - 2003 Josh Howard at #29 or keep Barbosa - 2002 Boozer at #26 - 2001 Nailed it - 2000 Michael Redd at #41 (so close) - 1999 Trade up 5 spots to #24 for Kirilenko, plus Manu - 1998 Rashard Lewis at #24 - 1997 Keith Van Horn at #1


2013 - Trade up one spot and pick Gobert at #27 <--- absolute miss because the pick was the Nuggets who traded with Utah for a 2nd round pick. This could have been the mainstay center for the Spurs!

2012 Trade into the second round and pick Draymond Green at #35 <-- Spurs didn't have any higher picks to trade.

2011 Pick Jimmy Butler or Chandler Parsons at # 29 <-- Cojo a real bust by comparison

2010 Trade up 2 spots and pick Bledsoe at #18 <-- not likely with trading partner OKC. Although Quincy Poindexter and Hassan Whiteside were still on the board.

2009 Nothing realistic - (2nd Round) Isn't is strange that Spurs have Green and Mill all drafted later than Blair.

2008 DeAndre Jordan at #26, trade up 2 spots for Ibaka at #26 or stay with George Hill. <-- Batum at #25 was the main target here... fail on the front office for not trading up Note how Rockets traded pick to Portland.

2007 Splitter at #28 and Marc Gasol at #33 <--- yeah... oh well!

2006 Nothing realistic - <-- Spurs had no picks

2005 David Lee or Monta Ellis at #28 <--- was a draft and stash, but how could they miss on Ellis?

2004 Varejao at #28 <--- would have made sense for a draft and stash. Of course #42 Trevor Ariza was available!

[Nathan89]

What an absurd standard to measure the success of a drafted player.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Spurs fans have very high expectations for 1st round draft picks. Unfortunately, for the last 11 years, it's been mostly busts. Only Splitter and Hill made contributions in the playoffs.

2014 - Kyle Anderson
2013 - LJC <----------------bust (could have drafted Gobert)
2012 - no picks
2011 - Cojo <--------------- no contribution in the playoffs except for a great dunk on Ibaka
2010 - James Anderson <---bust
2009 - no picks
2008 - George Hill
2008 - no picks
2007 - Splitter
2005 - Ian Mahinmi <--------bust
2004 - Beno Udrih <----------bust


Beno, not a bust. He has been Memphis best bench player, especially in the playoff over the past two years. He is had a decent career. Lindsey Hunter just rocked his confidence in '05 Finals and it took him a few years to get it back.

LJC is not a bust. He was dominating the SL defensively and looks like a player that can really develop. Yes, in hindsight, the Spurs should have drafted Gobert.

Cojo is not a bust. For where he got pick, he is actual on par if not a little better than players drafted that late that made a prolong NBA career. And no, he was part of a 12-0 run in the 3Q of the game 6 of that series when he checked Jackson and kept him scoreless, you know, when Pop actually did bench Parker for a change.

And James Anderson, he is not a bust since he was taken late and that his career was derailed by the broken foot he sustained in his rookie season. People forget that he was avg. 10 ppg and shooting 50% from 3's through his first 10 games, then the broken foot happen, which has been a career ender for many a players up to that point. It kinda of was a blessing in disguise as the Spurs more than likely wouldn't have traded Hill to get Kwahi had JA not sustained his injury.

The only true bust of all those was Mahinmi. This is the one time the Spurs drafted for athleticism over BB IQ and boy did it show. Guy had like 9-10 fouls every SL game his first two years.

[ceperez]

Beno, not a bust. He has been Memphis best bench player, especially in the playoff over the past two years. He is had a decent career. Lindsey Hunter just rocked his confidence in '05 Finals and it took him a few years to get it back.

LJC is not a bust. He was dominating the SL defensively and looks like a player that can really develop. Yes, in hindsight, the Spurs should have drafted Gobert.

Cojo is not a bust. For where he got pick, he is actual on par if not a little better than players drafted that late that made a prolong NBA career. And no, he was part of a 12-0 run in the 3Q of the game 6 of that series when he checked Jackson and kept him scoreless, you know, when Pop actually did bench Parker for a change.

And James Anderson, he is not a bust since he was taken late and that his career was derailed by the broken foot he sustained in his rookie season. People forget that he was avg. 10 ppg and shooting 50% from 3's through his first 10 games, then the broken foot happen, which has been a career ender for many a players up to that point. It kinda of was a blessing in disguise as the Spurs more than likely wouldn't have traded Hill to get Kwahi had JA not sustained his injury.

The only true bust of all those was Mahinmi. This is the one time the Spurs drafted for athleticism over BB IQ and boy did it show. Guy had like 9-10 fouls every SL game his first two years.

I can blame the poor drafting record to the departure of Sam Presti. That dude is a genius with finding talent. He found Parker and Ginobili.

[dweaver99027]

There's no poor drafting record if you can constantly get guys in the 26-30 range who end up legitimate rotation players with 7+ year careers in the NBA.

[ceperez]

There's no poor drafting record if you can constantly get guys in the 26-30 range who end up legitimate rotation players with 7+ year careers in the NBA.

Cojo was a bad draft. He never got himself into the playoff rotation.

Every mock draft out there had Jimmy Butler ahead of Cory Joseph. Guess what happens, PATFO plays smart and picks Cojo over Butler!

NBADraft.net J.Butler #34 ... Joseph #44
DraftExpress J. Butler #33 ... Joseph #50

Complete debacle.

[dweaver99027]

He still turned out MUCH better than the average #29 pick. We hit a double instead of a homer. Boo hoo.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Cojo was a bad draft. He never got himself into the playoff rotation.

Every mock draft out there had Jimmy Butler ahead of Cory Joseph. Guess what happens, PATFO plays smart and picks Cojo over Butler!

NBADraft.net J.Butler #34 ... Joseph #44
DraftExpress J. Butler #33 ... Joseph #50

Complete debacle.

Spurs needed a backup PG at the time. They just drafted Kwahi for crying out loud. Kwahi is better. Spurs had Manu and just signed Green Revisionist history is the worse when you say the Spurs shoulda coulda woulda. If anything, the Spurs should have drafted Isiah Thomas.

Like I said, the only true draft bust the Spurs have had was Ian.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

I can blame the poor drafting record to the departure of Sam Presti. That dude is a genius with finding talent. He found Parker and Ginobili.

And no, Presti wasn't even the lead scout when the Spurs drafted Manu. And for the record, it was Mr. Pringles D'antoni himself that recommended Manu to the Spurs, seeing him play as his time as a coach in the Italian league before he became the head scout of the Spurs for two years.

Presti only solid contribution was Parker. But yes, he has done an amazing job with the Thunder. But the Spurs picking up and developing the likes of Green, Neal, Splitter, Kawhi, Hill, Mills, etc after Presti, shows the Spurs can still get more from less without him.

[AFBlue]

JIMMER'S SHOOTING STROKE IS SO UGLY :sleep

There's a button on the left side of your keyboard titled "Caps Lock." Do us all a favor and make sure it's disengaged.

[ceperez]

And no, Presti wasn't even the lead scout when the Spurs drafted Manu. And for the record, it was Mr. Pringles D'antoni himself that recommended Manu to the Spurs, seeing him play as his time as a coach in the Italian league before he became the head scout of the Spurs for two years.

Presti only solid contribution was Parker. But yes, he has done an amazing job with the Thunder. But the Spurs picking up and developing the likes of Green, Neal, Splitter, Kawhi, Hill, Mills, etc after Presti, shows the Spurs can still get more from less without him.

The difference between Spurs and OKC is that OKC doesn't have a stellar coaching staff that can develop players that are picked up from the scrap heap.

However, aside from the utterly brilliant and lucky Hill for Kawhi trade, Spurs drafting has been not up to par (relative to Parker/Ginobili drafts) in the last decade. The magic left the building and went to the Thunder.

[dweaver99027]

Picking through the scrap heap for players who CAN be developed to fit the team's needs by the coaches is an indicator of a good FO.

[AFBlue]

Cojo was a bad draft. He never got himself into the playoff rotation.

Every mock draft out there had Jimmy Butler ahead of Cory Joseph. Guess what happens, PATFO plays smart and picks Cojo over Butler!

NBADraft.net J.Butler #34 ... Joseph #44
DraftExpress J. Butler #33 ... Joseph #50

Complete debacle.

They had just given up their backup PG to draft Kawhi Leonard. Why would they double up on SFs with (at the time) questionable shooting strokes and completely ignore a new hole in the lineup they'd just created. Please just stop.

[ChumpDumper]

What have I learned in this thread?

Late first rounders must play a major role in a championship or they are career busts.

lol

[Hoops Czar]

LJC is not a bust. He was dominating the SL defensively and looks like a player that can really develop. Yes, in hindsight, the Spurs should have drafted Gobert.
TBD! Too early to tell but, if he doesn't pick it up on the offensive end, he'll never see the light of day in the NBA.



Cojo is not a bust. For where he got pick, he is actual on par if not a little better than players drafted that late that made a prolong NBA career. And no, he was part of a 12-0 run in the 3Q of the game 6 of that series when he checked Jackson and kept him scoreless, you know, when Pop actually did bench Parker for a change.
Depends on your definition of bust. Cojo isn't a pg because he isn't a playmaker and he isn't a sg because he isn't a particularly good shooter. He'd be a decent player if basketball was played one on one unfortunately, it's a team sport and by all definitions, he doesn't fill a team requirement. He's a player without a position. Oh, he'll surely put up numbers in Toronto if he's given the opportunity but, he won't necessarily make the team better when he's on the court. The Spurs tried to make a pg out of CoJo for 4 years without luck. If Toronto tries to do the same, they'll find out firsthand what it feels like to piss away $30M.


And James Anderson, he is not a bust since he was taken late and that his career was derailed by the broken foot he sustained in his rookie season. People forget that he was avg. 10 ppg and shooting 50% from 3's through his first 10 games, then the broken foot happen, which has been a career ender for many a players up to that point. It kinda of was a blessing in disguise as the Spurs more than likely wouldn't have traded Hill to get Kwahi had JA not sustained his injury.
So Greg Oden wasn't a bust? Was his career not derailed by injuries? FWIW, JA played in 80 of 82 games averaging nearly 29 MPG last year.


The only true bust of all those was Mahinmi. This is the one time the Spurs drafted for athleticism over BB IQ and boy did it show. Guy had like 9-10 fouls every SL game his first two years.

Ian was a bust but CoJo wasn't? He was the 28th pick overall and while he never met fans expectations in SA, he had a pretty decent season for Indiana last year. What kind of contributions were you expecting from him as the 28th pick in the draft? Is there such a thing as a bust in the late 1st and 2nd rounds? Some players work out, others don't.

[ceperez]

What have I learned in this thread?

Late first rounders must play a major role in a championship or they are career busts.

lol

When the Spurs don't win the championship, most Spurs fans consider that a failure.

So by the same token, if a Spur player does not contribute to winning the championship, then that player is a failure (in a relative sense).

Now you can may have lower standards. You may be like one of those guys who gives away trophies for every kid that participates.

I'm not, don't contribute to a championship, then a bust as a Spurs player, IMHO.

[dweaver99027]

George Gervin was a bust? 89-97 DRob was a bust?

[snickles]

sorry ceperez, but i have to speak up. i was pretty content to let you have your opinion and all. for the most part, you did attempt to argue your points, although most here think the logic is flawed. but now your reasoning is becoming asinine.


seriously, you are saying the spurs should move assets to trade up...as little as one spot in one example....to pick up a player in the draft range that is routinely considered a crap shoot? many of the players you listed that we "missed out" on were never projected to be anything special. revisionist history at its finest.


not to mention the fact that the spurs often drafted with the intention of stashing players overseas to maintain their limited cap flexibility and stay out of the luxary tax.

EVERY team can go back 3,4,5 years after every draft and find players they miss. the opportunity cost of drafting player A over player B does not make player A a bust. the more i think about these posts, the more i'm shaking my head. your definition of a bust is completely broken and honestly indefensible.







2013 - Trade up one spot and pick Gobert at #27 <--- absolute miss because the pick was the Nuggets who traded with Utah for a 2nd round pick. This could have been the mainstay center for the Spurs!

2012 Trade into the second round and pick Draymond Green at #35 <-- Spurs didn't have any higher picks to trade.

2011 Pick Jimmy Butler or Chandler Parsons at # 29 <-- Cojo a real bust by comparison

2010 Trade up 2 spots and pick Bledsoe at #18 <-- not likely with trading partner OKC. Although Quincy Poindexter and Hassan Whiteside were still on the board.

2009 Nothing realistic - (2nd Round) Isn't is strange that Spurs have Green and Mill all drafted later than Blair.

2008 DeAndre Jordan at #26, trade up 2 spots for Ibaka at #26 or stay with George Hill. <-- Batum at #25 was the main target here... fail on the front office for not trading up Note how Rockets traded pick to Portland.

2007 Splitter at #28 and Marc Gasol at #33 <--- yeah... oh well!

2006 Nothing realistic - <-- Spurs had no picks

2005 David Lee or Monta Ellis at #28 <--- was a draft and stash, but how could they miss on Ellis?

2004 Varejao at #28 <--- would have made sense for a draft and stash. Of course #42 Trevor Ariza was available!

[ceperez]

George Gervin was a bust? 89-97 DRob was a bust?

Pre-Duncan era... so different expectations.

[ChumpDumper]

When the Spurs don't win the championship, most Spurs fans consider that a failure.

So by the same token, if a Spur player does not contribute to winning the championship, then that player is a failure (in a relative sense).

Now you can may have lower standards. You may be like one of those guys who gives away trophies for every kid that participates.

I'm not, don't contribute to a championship, then a bust as a Spurs player, IMHO.So every player Presti has chosen for OKC is a bust.

Presti is a bust.

[dweaver99027]

My point exactly. Spurs' and PATFO's success have created your unrealistic expectations regarding late firsts. You can keep getting better, but you never get to be infallible.

[Sean Cagney]

EVERY team can go back 3,4,5 years after every draft and find players they miss. the opportunity cost of drafting player A over player B does not make player A a bust. the more i think about these posts, the more i'm shaking my head. your definition of a bust is completely broken and honestly indefensible.
Yep, it's all a luck game when it comes to the draft. Those guys he mentions there got passed up by a ton of teams as well as the Spurs, nobody knew they would turn out to be that good.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

TBD! Too early to tell but, if he doesn't pick it up on the offensive end, he'll never see the light of day in the NBA.


Depends on your definition of bust. Cojo isn't a pg because he isn't a playmaker and he isn't a sg because he isn't a particularly good shooter. He'd be a decent player if basketball was played one on one unfortunately, it's a team sport and by all definitions, he doesn't fill a team requirement. He's a player without a position. Oh, he'll surely put up numbers in Toronto if he's given the opportunity but, he won't necessarily make the team better when he's on the court. The Spurs tried to make a pg out of CoJo for 4 years without luck. If Toronto tries to do the same, they'll find out firsthand what it feels like to piss away $30M.


So Greg Oden wasn't a bust? Was his career not derailed by injuries? FWIW, JA played in 80 of 82 games averaging nearly 29 MPG last year.



Ian was a bust but CoJo wasn't? He was the 28th pick overall and while he never met fans expectations in SA, he had a pretty decent season for Indiana last year. What kind of contributions were you expecting from him as the 28th pick in the draft? Is there such a thing as a bust in the late 1st and 2nd rounds? Some players work out, others don't.

Bust is defined about expectations. JA was actually more than expected before his injury. Oden was the 2nd coming of Bill Russell.

Ian contributed ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the Spurs. Cojo actually has had some decent games as a starter and bench player. I would put him up their with Vaughn. Not a playmaker but he can manage an offense. And his jumpshot vastly improved last year, better than Vaughn's ever was. And his D is very comparable to Vaughn. So basically, he is everything you expected and probably more from a late 1st round pick.

And reason why guys like Manu and Parker don't fall into the Spurs laps is because teams weren't scouting European players like the Spurs were at the time. Now, that is why guys like Saric and Hezonja and such are drafted in the lottery nowadays.

[ChumpDumper]

ceperez wins the retroactive mock draft competition every year!

[ceperez]

sorry ceperez, but i have to speak up. i was pretty content to let you have your opinion and all. for the most part, you did attempt to argue your points, although most here think the logic is flawed. but now your reasoning is becoming asinine.


seriously, you are saying the spurs should move assets to trade up...as little as one spot in one example....to pick up a player in the draft range that is routinely considered a crap shoot? many of the players you listed that we "missed out" on were never projected to be anything special. revisionist history at its finest.


not to mention the fact that the spurs often drafted with the intention of stashing players overseas to maintain their limited cap flexibility and stay out of the luxary tax.

EVERY team can go back 3,4,5 years after every draft and find players they miss. the opportunity cost of drafting player A over player B does not make player A a bust. the more i think about these posts, the more i'm shaking my head. your definition of a bust is completely broken and honestly indefensible.

I'm going to call a spade a spade.

These players first round drafted players were busts:

Cory Joseph
James Anderson
Ian Mahinmi
Beno Udrih

All 4 were given rookie level salaries to deliver and absolutely could not do so.

Livo Jean Charles - Jury is still out, but looking very much like a bust. Spurs 1st round draft picks are expected to eventually sign with the team. LJC may not even make that cutoff!

That's for a period of 10 years, 2 hits (Splitter and Hill) everyone else, failures. Not very good batting averages based on the averages before 2004.

2003 NBA 1 28 Leandro Barbosa Associação Bauru (Brazil) <-- didn't own rights
2002 NBA 1 26 John Salmons University of Miami <-- didn't own rights
2001 NBA 1 28 Tony Parker Paris Basket Racing (France)
1998 NBA 1 24 Felipe Lopez St. John's University <-- didn't own rights
1997 NBA 1 1 Tim Duncan Wake Forest University

7 years, 2 1st round draft picks... both in the money.

Ask any Spurs fan, if you are a 1st round draft pick for the Spurs, then the expectations is that you make a real contribution otherwise you are a bust.

[ChumpDumper]

Since ceperez told me Presti is a complete bust as a GM, I'm fine with RC Buford.

[ceperez]

Since ceperez told me Presti is a complete bust as a GM, I'm fine with RC Buford.

I said he was an excellent draft picker. I didn't say he was as good a GM as RC.

[ChumpDumper]

I said he was an excellent draft picker. I didn't say he was as good a GM as RC.You said he's a complete bust as a draft picker.

[ChumpDumper]

It is your binary system of GM/player/draft evaluation; if you would now like to back down from that contention, you are more than welcome to do so.

[snickles]

Ask any Spurs fan, if you are a 1st round draft pick for the Spurs, then the expectations is that you make a real contribution otherwise you are a bust.

fair enough. spurs fans, do you agree with this statement? i sure don't.

not going to bother rehashing with everyone else has said about how flawed this logic is. there's not much else i can add to what the masses have already replied. you guys have fun.

[ceperez]

It is your binary system of GM/player/draft evaluation; if you would now like to back down from that contention, you are more than welcome to do so.

I am implying that RC isn't as good a draft picker as Presti. Comprende?

[dweaver99027]

fair enough. spurs fans, do you agree with this statement? i sure don't. not going to bother rehashing with everyone else has said about how flawed this logic is. there's not much else i can add to what the masses have already replied. you guys have fun. Pretty much. Well said.

[ChumpDumper]

I am implying that RC isn't as good a draft picker as Presti. Comprende?But that can't be because Presti is by your definition a complete bust as a draft picker, even with multiple lottery picks. Comprende?

[ceperez]

But that can't be because Presti is by your definition a complete bust as a draft picker, even with multiple lottery picks. Comprende?

Presti did very well picking for the Thunder. Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka.....

Of course, OKC doesn't have the same standards and expectations of the Spurs... if that's what you mean.

My "bust" definition is in the context of a Spurs 1st round pick, if that isn't already obvious. The expectation of any Spurs 1st round draft pick to to contribute to winning a championship. Cojo, James Anderson, Mahinmi and Beno are all busts by this definition.

Definiton doesn't apply for coaches, or even players from other teams. Doesn't even apply for Spurs 2nd round picks.

[Hoops Czar]

Bust is defined about expectations. JA was actually more than expected before his injury. Oden was the 2nd coming of Bill Russell.

Exactly. So I wasn't sure why you said he wasn't a bust because his career was derailed by an injury. My expectations were nothing more than a solid contributor off the bench and that's basically the type of player he is in Philly though he's been bumped up to starter due to the lack of depth.


Ian contributed ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to the Spurs. Cojo actually has had some decent games as a starter and bench player. I would put him up their with Vaughn. Not a playmaker but he can manage an offense. And his jumpshot vastly improved last year, better than Vaughn's ever was. And his D is very comparable to Vaughn. So basically, he is everything you expected and probably more from a late 1st round pick.

I know this. Did he have higher expectations as the 28th pick in the draft than others did at the time or could he have been just a tad bit overrated from the start? Wasn't Ian Mahinmi hampered by injuries early in his career or am I thinking of somebody else?

[snickles]

I don't want to get into the whole presti vs RC thing. i don't really care either way in that argument. just a few facts i'd like to interject.\

having the 2nd pick in a 2 horse race, and letting someone else make the decision for you. had portland selected durant, would you devalue presti's drafting skills?

if you're definition of a bust was narrowed down to just lottery picks, i could concede you make a decent point. but getting a rotation player in the late 20s, a player who eventually gets poached by another team because you can't afford to pay a backup more, a player that plays for 8-10 years.....i can't think of any team who would be disappointed by that.

you're expectations of a 1st round pick are lubricious. late first round players often don't even get a 2nd contract. cojo, mahinmi and beno are all still in the league, and have been rotation players for most of their careers. anderson got derailed because of injury. i'll give you that one.



Presti did very well picking for the Thunder. Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka.....

Of course, OKC doesn't have the same standards and expectations of the Spurs... if that's what you mean.

My "bust" definition is in the context of a Spurs 1st round pick, if that isn't already obvious. The expectation of any Spurs 1st round draft pick to to contribute to winning a championship. Cojo, James Anderson, Mahinmi and Beno are all busts by this definition.

Definiton doesn't apply for coaches, or even players from other teams. Doesn't even apply for Spurs 2nd round picks.

[snickles]

double post

[tholdren]

Jimmer is a lot better than mcCallum

[ceperez]

Jimmer is a lot better than mcCallum

Back to the regular scheduled program on this thread.

So.... why do you think Jimmer is better than McCallum???

[Spurtacular]

2004 Varejao at #28 <--- would have made sense for a draft and stash. Of course #42 Trevor Ariza was available!

Meh.

[Spurtacular]

Cojo was a bad draft. He never got himself into the playoff rotation.

CoJo was playing behind guards Parker, Manu, Green, Mills, Beli; and he did what was asked of him.

Yes, the Spurs could've had Butler. But teams don't always hit a homerun.

[Spurtacular]

Cojo was a bad draft. He never got himself into the playoff rotation.

Every mock draft out there had Jimmy Butler ahead of Cory Joseph. Guess what happens, PATFO plays smart and picks Cojo over Butler!

NBADraft.net J.Butler #34 ... Joseph #44
DraftExpress J. Butler #33 ... Joseph #50

Complete debacle.

I think since Manu/Parker, PATFO gets a B on their draft picks. But they're not 'great' or whatever like a lot of people want to believe. Some people want to point to Kawhi and note how 'they still got it.' I don't view that as the Spurs being so smart. I think it's more of an indictment of how sh**** the braintrusts of teams around the league are. I personally was calling KL a top five talent going into that draft; and I had wondered if he wasn't the best talent on the board, period. These guys around the league get caught up in following trends instead of following any sense of intuition.

[BatManu20]

Looking at this thread like


https://wreckedangle.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/wwyd.png

[Spurtacular]

They had just given up their backup PG to draft Kawhi Leonard. Why would they double up on SFs with (at the time) questionable shooting strokes and completely ignore a new hole in the lineup they'd just created. Please just stop.

Back-up PGs are not that hard to come by. Plus we're really talking about third string PG as Manu was mostly playing de facto back-up PG much of the time. You don't pass on a potential great talent for someone you're hoping will be merely serviceable.

[Spurtacular]

Looking at this thread like


https://wreckedangle.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/wwyd.png

I don't think anyone's even mentioned Jimmer for like the last 50 posts if it makes you feel better. :lol

[Spurs9]

https://i.imgur.com/tRXf4CQ.gifv

[monkeypunk]

Looking at this thread like


https://wreckedangle.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/wwyd.png

[ceperez]

Back-up PGs are not that hard to come by. Plus we're really talking about third string PG as Manu was mostly playing de facto back-up PG much of the time. You don't pass on a potential great talent for someone you're hoping will be merely serviceable.

Hit the nail on the head. They had Nando de Colo already drafted 2 years earlier. Complete PATFO fail... Jimmy Butler was right there for the taking (every mock draft was showing this). If Butler was in the team, Spurs would have won 2013. Heck, I think Spurs would have won 2015 if they went over luxury to land Gasol.

[AFBlue]

Back-up PGs are not that hard to come by. Plus we're really talking about third string PG as Manu was mostly playing de facto back-up PG much of the time. You don't pass on a potential great talent for someone you're hoping will be merely serviceable.

If Butler was a potential great talent, he wouldn't have been available at the tail end of the first round tbqh. Let's not let his performance in the NBA cloud his status as a prospect at draft time. And while CoJo was ranked as a mid-second rounder in 2011, so too was George Hill in his draft class. I'm sure they didn't draft Cory, who was 19 at the time, with the expectation that his ceiling was "serviceable third string PG." Joseph was long on potential and short on production when he was drafted. Again, let's not cloud his draft profile with what he's become in the NBA.

[Spurtacular]

If Butler was a potential great talent, he wouldn't have been available at the tail end of the first round tbqh. Let's not let his performance in the NBA cloud his status as a prospect at draft time. And while CoJo was ranked as a mid-second rounder in 2011, so too was George Hill in his draft class. I'm sure they didn't draft Cory, who was 19 at the time, with the expectation that his ceiling was "serviceable third string PG." Joseph was long on potential and short on production when he was drafted. Again, let's not cloud his draft profile with what he's become in the NBA.

Passing on a 6'7" wing for an undersized guard who's not even rated higher by the so-called experts? I'm sorry, but that's a fail in light of everything we now know.

[ChumpDumper]

Presti did very well picking for the Thunder. Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka.....

Of course, OKC doesn't have the same standards and expectations of the Spurs... if that's what you mean.

My "bust" definition is in the context of a Spurs 1st round pick, if that isn't already obvious. The expectation of any Spurs 1st round draft pick to to contribute to winning a championship. Cojo, James Anderson, Mahinmi and Beno are all busts by this definition.

Definiton doesn't apply for coaches, or even players from other teams. Doesn't even apply for Spurs 2nd round picks.Oh, so since you expect less of a guy like Presti, he's automatically better than RC.

Makes sense.

[ChumpDumper]

Passing on a 6'7" wing for an undersized guard who's not even rated higher by the so-called experts? I'm sorry, but that's a fail in light of everything we now know.Retroactive mock draft win!

[AFBlue]

Passing on a 6'7" wing for an undersized guard who's not even rated higher by the so-called experts? I'm sorry, but that's a fail in light of everything we now know.

Spurs had picked up a 6'7 wing already. What's the sense in picking up two? And again, where the "experts" rank someone has never particularly mattered to the Spurs. George Hill over Mario Chalmers is a prime example of that. Also, in what universe is 6'3 undersized for a PG?

[ceperez]

Spurs had picked up a 6'7 wing already. What's the sense in picking up two? And again, where the "experts" rank someone has never particularly mattered to the Spurs. George Hill over Mario Chalmers is a prime example of that. Also, in what universe is 6'3 undersized for a PG?

Yeah, you are probably right that Spurs wouldn't care about the consensus rankings.

Anyway, CoJo was such a disappointment. You could tell that despite so many years with the Spurs, he really didn't improve his basketball IQ.

At this current stage, I think Simmons is way better than CoJo even at the PG position.

[RD2191]

Holy shit ceperez shut the fuck up
Tbh. Dude is stupid as shit and annoying as fuck.

[SAGirl]

Yeah, you are probably right that Spurs wouldn't care about the consensus rankings.

Anyway, CoJo was such a disappointment. You could tell that despite so many years with the Spurs, he really didn't improve his basketball IQ.

At this current stage, I think Simmons is way better than CoJo even at the PG position.
I will wait to see Simmons in the NBA before I cast that judgement. At 21 yrs old CoJo was a D'league all star and a All NBA D'league second teamer in 2013. http://www.basketball-reference.com/dleague/players/j/josepco01d.html. You could say at a younger age CoJo was already playing better than Simmons. What really stands out from Simmons is his athleticism, but we still have to see him in the NBA. He has shown better passing instincts than CoJo though, to me that was CoJo's major deficiency. He never developed his passing skills beyond the rudimentary, but I will have to see Simmons in the NBA before I say he is flat out better as a player.

[Spurtacular]

Spurs had picked up a 6'7 wing already. What's the sense in picking up two? And again, where the "experts" rank someone has never particularly mattered to the Spurs. George Hill over Mario Chalmers is a prime example of that. Also, in what universe is 6'3 undersized for a PG?

You really want to argue that a team that needs wing help drafting two 6'7" guys who have shots to be premium wings is not worth it?

[Nathan89]

Expecting the Spurs to pick the best player available every draft:lol. There is a lot of luck involved and the field that drafts behind the spurs is always more likely to find a better player than whoever the spurs pick.

[Spurtacular]

Expecting the Spurs to pick the best player available every draft:lol. There is a lot of luck involved and the field that drafts behind the spurs is always more likely to find a better player than whoever the spurs pick.

That's all well fine and dandy. But the Spurs went for a PG that was gonna top out at serviceable as opposed to a wing player who showed great starter level potential as a wing. Not a smart move no matter how you choose to defend it.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

That's all well fine and dandy. But the Spurs went for a PG that was gonna top out at serviceable as opposed to a wing player who showed great starter level potential as a wing. Not a smart move no matter how you choose to defend it.

Why do you think he would have developped at all on the Spurs playing behind Green and Manu?

[ceperez]

Why do you think he would have developped at all on the Spurs playing behind Green and Manu?

Cojo over Butler was a bad call at the time. Cojo was straight out bad draft, you don't even have to use hindsight to figure this one out. He was a raw 19 year old that hadn't established himself in college, he didn't have any special athleticism or high percentages. He was just a guy with work ethic ( same thing Butler was known for ).

Also, important to remember that De Colo had previously been drafted 2 years ago. So if there was any shortage in the PG position, it was previously filled.

[Spurtacular]

Why do you think he would have developed at all on the Spurs playing behind Green and Manu?

Absolutely.

[AFBlue]

You really want to argue that a team that needs wing help drafting two 6'7" guys who have shots to be premium wings is not worth it?

Your judgement is clouded by the fact that both became max-level players tbqh. There are a half-dozen or more "6'7 athletic wings with potential" in every single draft. In that draft alone, people were arguing the Spurs should've traded up for Chris Singleton instead of Kawhi. Who? Exactly.

The point is, it's clear the Spurs did not feel that adding two wings with the same profile was a priority when they had opportunity to address other areas. We would be calling the Spurs FO geniuses once again if Cory ascended the way Kawhi has done, and this "two wings v. other positions" debate would be irrelevant. I mean, even more irrelevant than it already is tbqh.

[bluebellmaniac]

I'm sure he has bought heavily into every stock market winner with no duds. Lol! Wishing after the fact as if it was easy.

Is this the latest TimVP sock?

[Spurtacular]

Your judgement is clouded by the fact that both became max-level players tbqh. There are a half-dozen or more "6'7 athletic wings with potential" in every single draft. In that draft alone, people were arguing the Spurs should've traded up for Chris Singleton instead of Kawhi. Who? Exactly.

The point is, it's clear the Spurs did not feel that adding two wings with the same profile was a priority when they had opportunity to address other areas. We would be calling the Spurs FO geniuses once again if Cory ascended the way Kawhi has done, and this "two wings v. other positions" debate would be irrelevant. I mean, even more irrelevant than it already is tbqh.

Umm, easy for me to say based on hindsight; but "clouded" is a bit too strong.

In the 10-11 college basketball season, I watched probably a dozen or more SDSU games; so, I was very familiar with KL; and I believed he was a top five prospect and maybe the best prospect in the draft. And when the Spurs traded George Hill for him, I was immediately pleased (which is saying a lot based on how GH had performed). I only lamented that the deal couldn't be done without getting rid of Hill.

For some reason, I saw a good amount of UT basketball that season. I knew CoJo would likely be a serviceable PG in this league despite his not outstanding numbers in college. I knew from watching him that it was not a big upside pick though as well. Frankly, he shouldn't have been drafted below 40th at the earliest was my feeling as I generally recall.

I can't say that I was high on Butler. I had him in the 25-40 range based on limited views of him. Had the Spurs drafted him, I wouldn't have been over enthused. But I would have said, that draft pick makes sense.

In the case of CoJo, my immediate thought was well, the Spurs could have traded down and got him and a future first. It was a bad pick even then.

So, no, I'm not saying I knew about Butler. I'm not saying that 6'7" wings always pan out. We know first hand about that based on that kid from Tennessee that we drafted a few years back. But I'm saying that the CoJo pick was funadmentally flawed from the start.

[Chinook]

You really want to argue that a team that needs wing help drafting two 6'7" guys who have shots to be premium wings is not worth it?

The Spurs didn't have wing need at the time. They had plenty of twos going in an out. They lacked bigs. Manu and RJ were on big, long-term deals. They had just drafted Leonard and had drafted Anderson the year before (a year where he looked pretty good before his injury). In no way, shape or form did drafting Butler make sense over drafting a PG.

The Spurs were rolling with Neal as the backup one, and Parker wasn't exactly considered untouchable either (since he was marred in controversy and hadn't hit his true peak yet). A development PG to replace Hill made perfect sense. Obviously, Isaiah Thomas may have been a better pick, but dude was Mr. Irrelevant. No one knew he was going to be a decent player.

Had the Spurs drafted Butler, they would have cut Green. No Green, no run in 2012 or 2013, as Jimmy really wasn't that good coming out of college. He's really not that good now, but whatever. And even if Butler became the player he is now, the Spurs would have had no way to sign anyone in free agency.

It's just a really poor line of reasoning all around, unfortunately.

[Spurtacular]

The Spurs didn't have wing need at the time. They had plenty of twos going in an out. They lacked bigs. Manu and RJ were on big, long-term deals. They had just drafted Leonard and had drafted Anderson the year before (a year where he looked pretty good before his injury). In no way, shape or form did drafting Butler make sense over drafting a PG.

The Spurs were rolling with Neal as the backup one, and Parker wasn't exactly considered untouchable either (since he was marred in controversy and hadn't hit his true peak yet). A development PG to replace Hill made perfect sense. Obviously, Isaiah Thomas may have been a better pick, but dude was Mr. Irrelevant. No one knew he was going to be a decent player.

Had the Spurs drafted Butler, they would have cut Green. No Green, no run in 2012 or 2013, as Jimmy really wasn't that good coming out of college. He's really not that good now, but whatever. And even if Butler became the player he is now, the Spurs would have had no way to sign anyone in free agency.

It's just a really poor line of reasoning all around, unfortunately.

I greatly respect your basketball knowledge. But I think you're completely off about the Spurs not having a wing need. That maybe more than anything was at the heart of the so-called dark era.

And CoJo was only ever going to top out at a serviceable PG. I don't think the Spurs even saw him getting to a Speedy Claxton level, tbh. So, if that's the ceiling we're talking about, then come on. Just a poor pick; picking CoJo over Butler. They could have found something comparable to CoJo on the open market for cheap. There was no compelling need to draft a PG as you assert.

And btw, IT would not have been a better pick. He is probably the worst defender in the league. And his offensive impact is vastly over-rated. But throwing out IT does illustrate how bad the CoJo pick was. Even if the Spurs weren't sold on Butler, then they still should've traded down and got IT or Joseph as a late second rounder. The CoJo pick reminds me of watching the NFL drafts and you see a team draft a QB way sooner than anyone expects...Just poor drafting. I can't say it stronger, tbh.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

:lol ST is the only place where you can find people moan the FO hasn't picked 2 max level players from the same draft but just one. FFS

[Chinook]

I greatly respect your basketball knowledge. But I think you're completely off about the Spurs not having a wing need. That maybe more than anything was at the heart of the so-called dark era.

Yes, and they had used two first-rounders in a row on wings. Why you think they would have done so with a third while still having two wings making more than $10 Million a year makes no sense. It's a poor attempt a revisionist history, because it still would have turned out badly.


And CoJo was only ever going to top out at a serviceable PG. I don't think the Spurs even saw him getting to a Speedy Claxton level, tbh. So, if that's the ceiling we're talking about, then come on. Just a poor pick; picking CoJo over Butler. They could have found something comparable to CoJo on the open market for cheap. There was no compelling need to draft a PG as you assert.

They drafted Joseph to develop over years. He wasn't their backup PG in 2012, just like Butler wouldn't have been their starting two that year. Cory's developed really well, considering he just got a big contract and so will be in the league for a least eight years. It's really looking like only Bulter, Parsons, Thomas and maybe Cole can say that.

Again, just really poor all around. The Spurs are better off WITHOUT Butler, even in a vacuum. You'd really prefer Jimmy over Danny AND LMA? Because that's what you'd get even in your idealized scenario.

[ceperez]

Umm, easy for me to say based on hindsight; but "clouded" is a bit too strong.

In the 10-11 college basketball season, I watched probably a dozen or more SDSU games; so, I was very familiar with KL; and I believed he was a top five prospect and maybe the best prospect in the draft. And when the Spurs traded George Hill for him, I was immediately pleased (which is saying a lot based on how GH had performed). I only lamented that the deal couldn't be done without getting rid of Hill.

For some reason, I saw a good amount of UT basketball that season. I knew CoJo would likely be a serviceable PG in this league despite his not outstanding numbers in college. I knew from watching him that it was not a big upside pick though as well. Frankly, he shouldn't have been drafted below 40th at the earliest was my feeling as I generally recall.

I can't say that I was high on Butler. I had him in the 25-40 range based on limited views of him. Had the Spurs drafted him, I wouldn't have been over enthused. But I would have said, that draft pick makes sense.

In the case of CoJo, my immediate thought was well, the Spurs could have traded down and got him and a future first. It was a bad pick even then.

So, no, I'm not saying I knew about Butler. I'm not saying that 6'7" wings always pan out. We know first hand about that based on that kid from Tennessee that we drafted a few years back. But I'm saying that the CoJo pick was funadmentally flawed from the start.

Totally agree here. The Cojo pick was fundamentally flawed. Likely made out of laziness in the sense that they were successful in landing Leonard.

Who knows if they would have picked Butler, but given what everyone knew at that time, a Butler pick would have been better than a Cojo pick. Both then and in hindsight.

Further the success of the Spurs in developing their 1st round picks is more a consequence of a great development program than because of stellar draft selection. Spurs can pick players like Mahinmi that disappoint in development, but have developed enough skills to be serviceable in the league.

There are hundreds of players out there playing in Europe and Asia that have just as much athleticism and talent as NBA players. They can't stick with an NBA franchise because they never learned the skills for the talent / position they have. Spurs are really great in developing these skills within their program.

The encouraging new development is that Spurs seem to be able to translate that development program into their D-league program. For years the Toros kept coming up with duds, but it may be time that they are finally cranking out serviceable players like Jamychal Green and Jonathon Simmons.

[ChumpDumper]

You people are idiots.

[GSH]

You people are idiots.

THAT'S what I'm talking about. I don't have to wade through pages of bullshit for a basketball take on it now.

[ChumpDumper]

THAT'S what I'm talking about. I don't have to wade through pages of bullshit for a basketball take on it now.lol

Here's the Cliff's Notes:

1) Jimmer with is a good NBA player....or he isn't.

2) The Spurs front office is the worst front office except for all the other ones.

3) ST posters pick winners at 100% when it comes to looking at past drafts.

[dweaver99027]

Keep in mind, picking Butler probably means no Danny. And no LMA either if we gave Butler Kawhi money this year.

[AFBlue]

Umm, easy for me to say based on hindsight; but "clouded" is a bit too strong.

In the 10-11 college basketball season, I watched probably a dozen or more SDSU games; so, I was very familiar with KL; and I believed he was a top five prospect and maybe the best prospect in the draft. And when the Spurs traded George Hill for him, I was immediately pleased (which is saying a lot based on how GH had performed). I only lamented that the deal couldn't be done without getting rid of Hill.

For some reason, I saw a good amount of UT basketball that season. I knew CoJo would likely be a serviceable PG in this league despite his not outstanding numbers in college. I knew from watching him that it was not a big upside pick though as well. Frankly, he shouldn't have been drafted below 40th at the earliest was my feeling as I generally recall.

I can't say that I was high on Butler. I had him in the 25-40 range based on limited views of him. Had the Spurs drafted him, I wouldn't have been over enthused. But I would have said, that draft pick makes sense.

In the case of CoJo, my immediate thought was well, the Spurs could have traded down and got him and a future first. It was a bad pick even then.

So, no, I'm not saying I knew about Butler. I'm not saying that 6'7" wings always pan out. We know first hand about that based on that kid from Tennessee that we drafted a few years back. But I'm saying that the CoJo pick was funadmentally flawed from the start.

What I gathered from all of this is that you feel you're a better talent scout than the Spurs FO. Perhaps you should apply for a job with them tbqh.

[AFBlue]

Totally agree here. The Cojo pick was fundamentally flawed. Likely made out of laziness in the sense that they were successful in landing Leonard.

:lol lazy FO

Yep, I can see Pop and RC in the war room after trading for Kawhi.

RC: Man, it was tough to swing that deal. I need a drink.
Pop: Me too. Plus I gotta go tell George.
Random Intern: Umm...sir...sirs. We still have three picks left.
Pop: You got this, kid. (Classic Popovich stare down)
RC: Excellent delegation. I'm thirsty, let's roll.

[ceperez]

:lol lazy FO

Yep, I can see Pop and RC in the war room after trading for Kawhi.

RC: Man, it was tough to swing that deal. I need a drink.
Pop: Me too. Plus I gotta go tell George.
Random Intern: Umm...sir...sirs. We still have three picks left.
Pop: You got this, kid. (Classic Popovich stare down)
RC: Excellent delegation. I'm thirsty, let's roll.

More lilke:

RC: Man, it was tough to swing that deal. I need a drink.
Pop: Me too. Plus I gotta go tell George.
Random Intern: Umm...sir...sirs. We still have three picks left.
Pop: Just pick up that PG we planned to get on the 2nd round. (Classic Popovich stare down)
RC: Excellent delegation. I'm thirsty, let's roll.

[ChumpDumper]

What I gathered from all of this is that you feel you're a better talent scout than the Spurs FO. Perhaps you should apply for a job with them tbqh.He needs to remember to demo his time machine during the interview.

[AFBlue]

More lilke:

RC: Man, it was tough to swing that deal. I need a drink.
Pop: Me too. Plus I gotta go tell George.
Random Intern: Umm...sir...sirs. We still have three picks left.
Pop: Just pick up that PG we planned to get on the 2nd round. (Classic Popovich stare down)
RC: Excellent delegation. I'm thirsty, let's roll.

They planned to pick Bertans in the second round tbqh. I don't understand the "lazy" argument, as you can probably tell by my sarcastic response. They clearly assessed Joseph as a first round talent, or they wouldn't have selected him there tbqh. I'm sure there were people this year that probably thought their team could get Terry Rozier in the latter part of the first round, but then he was taken at 17 by Boston.

Two points here that you shouldn't miss...

1) You're not smarter or more informed than the front office group that does this as their profession.
2) A player's value at draft time is ultimately measured by where they're drafted, not where they're mock drafted.

[Brazil]

dat ceperez poster tbh.... :lol did not remember he was that bad at bb takes or that good at trolling

[benefactor]

Tbh. Dude is stupid as shit and annoying as fuck.
You need to take that nig behind Whataburger. The whole Mexican community suffers a setback every time he opens ST in his browser.

[RD2191]

You need to take that nig behind Whataburger. The whole Mexican community suffers a setback every time he opens ST in his browser.

:lmao

Yeah, dat bean needs a beatdown.:lol

[Kidd K]

:lol ST is the only place where you can find people moan the FO hasn't picked 2 max level players from the same draft but just one. FFS

Yeah and with the 29th pick no less.

Its pick #29 guys. There's not supposed to be good players left. If you get one it's incredibly fortunate.

[BatManu20]

Yeah and with the 29th pick no less.

Its pick #29 guys. There's not supposed to be good players left. If you get one it's incredibly fortunate.

Tell that to Parker haters, tbh.

[Spurtacular]

Yes, and they had used two first-rounders in a row on wings. Why you think they would have done so with a third while still having two wings making more than $10 Million a year makes no sense. It's a poor attempt a revisionist history, because it still would have turned out badly.



They drafted Joseph to develop over years. He wasn't their backup PG in 2012, just like Butler wouldn't have been their starting two that year. Cory's developed really well, considering he just got a big contract and so will be in the league for a least eight years. It's really looking like only Bulter, Parsons, Thomas and maybe Cole can say that.

Again, just really poor all around. The Spurs are better off WITHOUT Butler, even in a vacuum. You'd really prefer Jimmy over Danny AND LMA? Because that's what you'd get even in your idealized scenario.

I don't think who's making what really factors in on rookie contracts....

As for the idea that we may have ultimately been better without Butler b/c Green could've ended up the better fit; I think you could be right. Though, there's nothing to say that Butler couldn't have played her as an off the bench guy. Might he have bolted when we couldn't pay him at the end of the rookie contract? Yes. CoJo bolted too. My point wasn't so much about how it affects us now though as to the fact that the CoJo pick just simply wasn't a good pick at the time.

Though, we probably end up trading Butler sooner for some great return value in that scenario....

[Spurtacular]

What I gathered from all of this is that you feel you're a better talent scout than the Spurs FO. Perhaps you should apply for a job with them tbqh.

Well, if knowing without a doubt that the CoJo pick was the wrong pick, then yea, I'm better. I'm assuming that's your criteria, anyhow.

Though, I think it's a stupid argument anyhow. You don't have to graduate top five percent in Harvard law to be a good talent scout....

[ChumpDumper]

Umm, easy for me to say based on hindsight; but "clouded" is a bit too strong.

In the 10-11 college basketball season, I watched probably a dozen or more SDSU games; so, I was very familiar with KL; and I believed he was a top five prospect and maybe the best prospect in the draft. And when the Spurs traded George Hill for him, I was immediately pleased (which is saying a lot based on how GH had performed). I only lamented that the deal couldn't be done without getting rid of Hill.

For some reason, I saw a good amount of UT basketball that season. I knew CoJo would likely be a serviceable PG in this league despite his not outstanding numbers in college. I knew from watching him that it was not a big upside pick though as well. Frankly, he shouldn't have been drafted below 40th at the earliest was my feeling as I generally recall.

I can't say that I was high on Butler. I had him in the 25-40 range based on limited views of him. Had the Spurs drafted him, I wouldn't have been over enthused. But I would have said, that draft pick makes sense.

In the case of CoJo, my immediate thought was well, the Spurs could have traded down and got him and a future first. It was a bad pick even then.

So, no, I'm not saying I knew about Butler. I'm not saying that 6'7" wings always pan out. We know first hand about that based on that kid from Tennessee that we drafted a few years back. But I'm saying that the CoJo pick was funadmentally flawed from the start.You're an amazing talent scout.

[Gladney to see you]

joke ???????????

They are different. They have shared a lot of time on the bench together over the years

[ceperez]

McCallum and Jimmer were both drafted by the Kings.

It'll be just sad if both become serviceable players for the Spurs.

[ceperez]

I want to see lots of this play run for Jimmer:

http://giant.gfycat.com/ShrillPlushHorsefly.gif

That's how to space the floor!

[sasaint]

McCallum and Jimmer were both drafted by the Kings.

It'll be just sad if both become serviceable players for the Spurs.

LOL! The sadist in me makes me want to root for both of them even more!

[ceperez]

LOL! The sadist in me makes me want to root for both of them even more!

Kings could become the Spurs other farm team!

[monkeypunk]

I wonder if Jimmer started taking those crazy long threes because his shot has that hitch slowing down his release and defenders could get to it fairly easily at the three point line.

[sasaint]

I wonder if Jimmer started taking those crazy long threes because his shot has that hitch slowing down his release and defenders could get to it fairly easily at the three point line.

Jimmer could be a real weapon if the league ever implements a 4-point shot! LOL!

[ceperez]

I wonder if Jimmer started taking those crazy long threes because his shot has that hitch slowing down his release and defenders could get to it fairly easily at the three point line.

Well, will Pop give Jimmer the green light to take shots like this.

http://giant.gfycat.com/ShrillPlushHorsefly.gif

It's a good weapon that the defense has to honor.

I mean look at this defense:

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-08-2015/gOEw_u.gif

[Gladney to see you]

Jimmer if kept can be a Heat check guy...if it doesn't work out he is a 95% shooter at the free throw line. IF IF IF he can show any semblance of defense he has a shot, but I don't think he can.

[benefactor]

I want to see lots of this play run for Jimmer:

http://giant.gfycat.com/ShrillPlushHorsefly.gif

That's how to space the floor!
If I get a hold of Jimmer and he agrees to let you suck his dick will you be quiet?

[SilverSpur]

Kings could become the Spurs other farm team!
Then hopefully we get Rudy Gay sometime in the future

[Spurtacular]

Well, will Pop give Jimmer the green light to take shots like this.

http://giant.gfycat.com/ShrillPlushHorsefly.gif



Look at all the scrubs Jimmer is playing with also. He'll have much nicer passing options.

[BatManu20]

Then hopefully we get Rudy Gay sometime in the future


Want nothing to do with that overrated/overpaid chucker, tbh.

[Spurtacular]

Want nothing to do with that overrated/overpaid chucker, tbh.

Gay was a good system player in college. Upon coming into the NBA, like many players, he decided it was about 'getting his papers.' I wouldn't want him either.

[ceperez]

Look at all the scrubs Jimmer is playing with also. He'll have much nicer passing options.

Yeah, look at where that other guard is standing (waiting for a pass)!!! Ridiculous!

[Spurtacular]

Yeah, look at where that other guard is standing (waiting for a pass)!!! Ridiculous!

That's Isiah Thomas; the guy who did nothing worthy to move ahead of Jimmer in the rotation as he colluded with Thornton, Evans and Cousins to freeze Jimmer out. He is intentionally not spreading the floor correctly so that his man is available as a third defender. Kings were/are a cancerous organization.

[tholdren]

Jimmer is better than any backup G we have other than Manu or Mills.

[Axegrinder]

Jeff McDonald: Jimmer Freddette, meanwhile, is guaranteed about $500K of his $947K training camp deal. (http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN) A pretty big partial.
– via Twitter JMcDonald_SAEN (http://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN)

[tholdren]

joseph is mcuh better than him jimmer past his prime :lol

Joseph on the Kings... would have been out of the league after his rookie year

[Spurtacular]

Joseph on the Kings... would have been out of the league after his rookie year

I don't know about that. But there's no doubt that the Kings derailed Jimmer's career before it started.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't know about that. But there's no doubt that the Kings derailed Jimmer's career before it started.Are you sure he just wasn't grateful enough to a jealous God?

[Spurtacular]

You reach; Jimmer teaches....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oKYGWkUBv3M/U1A07nzgjmI/AAAAAAAAFI8/D2BCb7ZOLvc/s1600/2.gif

[DPG21920]

500k guaranteed

[Chinook]

500k guaranteed

Where'd you hear that?

[DPG21920]

From Jeff MAC

[FkLA]

Hell yeah Jimmers gna be on the team. :hat

[loveforthegame]

Where'd you hear that?

630170531694641152

[ceperez]

630170531694641152

Woohoo... Jimmer Range coming to the Spurs!!

[Aztecfan03]

Where'd you hear that?
bout 1000 times in this thread.

[benefactor]

Woohoo... Jimmer Range will watch the Spurs in a suit!!
fify

[TXstbobcat]

Would never have thought a Jimmer thread would reach 40 pages.

[tholdren]

fify

Jimmer will be 6th man of year.

[playbonner15]

LOL at 40pages for a guy who wouldnt even sniff the court :lol. Never change ST :toast

[skin27]

he will be the most improve player next year!!!

[ElNono]

my humble contribution towards the 60 page goal, tbh

[cd98]

I'm all in on Jimmer. I want him to succeed in SA.

[Spurtacular]

my humble contribution towards the 60 page goal, tbh

I request that future contributions come in the form of gifs. Thanks.

[Spurtacular]

Jimmer will be 6th man of year.

I can see Jimmer getting some starts when Parker is out. But if anyone becomes the sixth man besides Manu, it'll probably be West out of deference to his financial sacrifice and in an effort to limit TD's minutes.

[Sean Cagney]

I'm all in on Jimmer. I want him to succeed in SA.

We all do but lets be honest here he probably wont :lol

[Spurtacular]

We all do but lets be honest here he probably wont :lol

Only the season before last, in a dysfunctional Kings system, Jimmer averaged 47.5 FG 49.3 FG, 52 Deep 3FG (League leader) 18.4 PP36MIN. I don't know why you and others are so eager to dismiss him. Well, I know why others do. But I don't think you understand how high this guy's ceiling may be.

[ceperez]

Only the season before last, in a dysfunctional Kings system, Jimmer averaged 47.5 FG 49.3 FG, 52 Deep 3FG (League leader) 18.4 PP36MIN. I don't know why you and others are so eager to dismiss him. Well, I know why others do. But I don't think you understand how high this guy's ceiling may be.

Well, how high do *you* think his ceiling might be? My opinion is Steve Kerr if all the stars align. Is Steve Nash level possible for Jimmer?

[AFBlue]

QUOTE=ceperez Woohoo... Jimmer Range will watch the Spurs in a suit!!/QUOTE

fify

Why so salty bro?

[AFBlue]

LOL at 40pages for a guy who wouldnt even sniff the court :lol. Never change ST :toast

Why so salty bro?

[AFBlue]

WILL BE OUT OF LEAUGE

Why so salty bro?

[Spurtacular]

Well, how high do *you* think his ceiling might be? My opinion is Steve Kerr if all the stars align. Is Steve Nash level possible for Jimmer?

People comparing Jimmer to Steve Kerr...Maybe some of them mean that as a compliment because Kerr is the all-time 3 point FG percent leader, and he had his big playoff moments. But I believe they're underselling him. It's like comparing Patty Mills to SK. It ignores the extra things that he does. Jimmer is more of a volume scorer who can do things off the dribble. Steve Kerr was one thing; a spot-up shooter.

The Steve Nash aspirations are obviously ambitious. Still waiting to see if the game slows for Jimmer. Nash (like Parker) felt comfortable dribbling all about. Jimmer hasn't shown that yet so much. He did at the college level. I also don't think that Jimmer is the consistent passer that Nash is. He can look like it on a play...but not every time down the court. Perhaps, a mix between Kevin Johnson and JJ Reddick is something I can see Jimmer hitting. Others might find the Mills comparisons more down to Earth. Who knows if Jimmer will even get the minutes on a night to night basis. He's pretty far down to start. But don't be surprised to see him have some games in which he flat out dazzles..makes like 7 or 8 threes.

[benefactor]

Patty will be 6th man of year.
fify

[benefactor]

Why so salty bro?
Just speaking truth. He's a homeless man's Gary Neal...and he'll be in a suit unless it's a back to back/designated rest. Jonathan Simmons is a better NBA prospect than Jimmer and he has yet to play a minute in the league. That should tell you all you need to know.

[LittleCriminal]

http://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/jimmer1-1-4-13.gif?w=1000

[LittleCriminal]

https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/jimmer-dancing-wedding1.gif

[AFBlue]

https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/jimmer-dancing-wedding1.gif

Wish I could be there for the Dougie-off at training camp tbqh.

[Ice009]

I'll give him a chance. He's going to have to play defense, and I mean that, I don't want any Gary Neal on a shoeless Mike Miller type defense either. I hope he's not as bad of a defender as some of you guys are saying he is, if he is, I'd cut him no matter how good his offense is. I also don't want him taking minutes from someone like Jonathon Simmons who has a lot more potential on the defensive end of the court.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

I'll give him a chance. He's going to have to play defense, and I mean that, I don't want any Gary Neal on a shoeless Mike Miller type defense either. I hope he's not as bad of a defender as some of you guys are saying he is, if he is, I'd cut him no matter how good his offense is. I also don't want him taking minutes from someone like Jonathon Simmons who has a lot more potential on the defensive end of the court.

How nice of you.

[LittleCriminal]

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT9dn9w0vKDiWGajRUCn-x4oWFjuAoq9aEmy5En2gXE-eRaUjrXug

[Chinook]

https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/jimmer-dancing-wedding1.gif

Gotta get him and Danny to do a dance-off.

[timtonymanu]

my humble contribution towards the 60 page goal, tbh

my nigga

[TheGreatYacht]

LOL at 40pages for a guy who wouldnt even sniff the court :lol. Never change ST :toast
What do you mean? We're talking about Jimmer here, tbh. Last I checked his hair wasn't red.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

I put him on the Spurs in 2k14 for PS4 and couldn't guard anyone with him. Future looks bleak tbh.

[Spurtacular]

I put him on the Spurs in 2k14 for PS4 and couldn't guard anyone with him. Future looks bleak tbh.

:lol

I'll bet you anything that they under-rated his defense. His defense was much improved last season; though, it wasn't much reflected in the stats.

[Sean Cagney]

Only the season before last, in a dysfunctional Kings system, Jimmer averaged 47.5 FG 49.3 FG, 52 Deep 3FG (League leader) 18.4 PP36MIN. I don't know why you and others are so eager to dismiss him. Well, I know why others do. But I don't think you understand how high this guy's ceiling may be.

Yeah I saw that but last year he was absolutely atrocious shooting wise on a playoff team. He was decent on that Kings team though I see, his shooting was good. If you get last years version he is garbage, the one with the Kings you mention he can be a factor with the open looks.

[Spurtacular]

Yeah I saw that but last year he was absolutely atrocious shooting wise on a playoff team. He was decent on that Kings team though I see, his shooting was good. If you get last years version he is garbage, the one with the Kings you mention he can be a factor with the open looks.

Something wasn't right behind the scenes in Pelicanville. Monty was touting Jimmer being a gunner and then pulling him out at the littlest thing going wrong (often things that weren't even Jimmer's fault). Jimmer was never comfortable (always looking at Monty's hook in his periphery). He started the season 1-14 from threes in the first 31 games and was aiming rather than shooting in stride. If you have Jimmer on your team and you're only getting one made three from him in 31 games? And the situation was never corrected. Jimmer shot just 7-34 from deep for the remainder of the season.

On the bright side, Jimmer got even better on his tear drops last season. It was his saving grace. And Jimmer shot 45.8 percent from two. That's pretty good for an undersized guard who doesn't have his deep shots going for him.

[Sean Cagney]

Something wasn't right behind the scenes in Pelicanville. Monty was touting Jimmer being a gunner and then pulling him out at the littlest thing going wrong (often things that weren't even Jimmer's fault). Jimmer was never comfortable (always looking at Monty's hook in his periphery). He started the season 1-14 from threes in the first 31 games and was aiming rather than shooting in stride. If you have Jimmer on your team and you're only getting one made three from him in 31 games? And the situation was never corrected. Jimmer shot just 7-34 from deep for the remainder of the season.

On the bright side, Jimmer got even better on his tear drops last season. It was his saving grace. And Jimmer shot 45.8 percent from two. That's pretty good for an undersized guard who doesn't have his deep shots going for him.
With all of this said I still don't expect much out of him this season in the rotation, he will be on the bench most of the time IMO and if they get something out of him it's a bonus obviously being he will be the 12th man or so. He is the 4th PG in the offense right? He might contribute at some point but I see him in there mostly in garbage time.

[Spurtacular]

With all of this said I still don't expect much out of him this season in the rotation, he will be on the bench most of the time IMO and if they get something out of him it's a bonus obviously being he will be the 12th man or so. He is the 4th PG in the offense right? He might contribute at some point but I see him in there mostly in garbage time.

Parker is starting PG. Ginobili/Mills is really the back-up PG at this point. They usually play together and have a hybrid of duties. That puts McCallum/Jimmer competing for CoJo minutes. But then Jimmer will also be competing for Beli minutes being that he's a combo guard. Also, don't forget that Parker/Ginobili are likely to take off X games and that'll open up a ground swell of minutes. I believe that Jimmer will have more of a chance to prove himself in significant minutes even if he is down on the depth chart on paper going into the season.

[SAGirl]

Parker is starting PG. Ginobili/Mills is really the back-up PG at this point. They usually play together and have a hybrid of duties. That puts McCallum/Jimmer competing for CoJo minutes. But then Jimmer will also be competing for Beli minutes being that he's a combo guard. Also, don't forget that Parker/Ginobili are likely to take off X games and that'll open up a ground swell of minutes. I believe that Jimmer will have more of a chance to prove himself in significant minutes even if he is down on the depth chart on paper going into the season.
There will be minutes but they will be irregular. Even Cojo had irregular minutes for 3 years and would have played less last year if Tony and Patty had been healthier through the season. I expect Tony will be rested but Patty is likely to be healthy. Jimmer and Mccallum will divvy up those minutes. I don't realistically expect either to get Belli's minutes. Belli was always subbed in at the SF spot. Those minutes will go to one of Anderson or Simmons, or both.

[ceperez]

There will be minutes but they will be irregular. Even Cojo had irregular minutes for 3 years and would have played less last year if Tony and Patty had been healthier through the season. I expect Tony will be rested but Patty is likely to be healthy. Jimmer and Mccallum will divvy up those minutes. I don't realistically expect either to get Belli's minutes. Belli was always subbed in at the SF spot. Those minutes will go to one of Anderson or Simmons, or both.

Jimmer and McCallum are both at least 3 to 4 inches shorter than Belli. Both are at best proper substitutes for Parker, but are just too small even at the SG position. In fact, between Jimmer, McCallum, Simmons and Anderson, I think Simmons has the highest likelihood of picking up minutes due to his versatility at SG, SF and even PG.

[Spurtacular]

There will be minutes but they will be irregular. Even Cojo had irregular minutes for 3 years and would have played less last year if Tony and Patty had been healthier through the season. I expect Tony will be rested but Patty is likely to be healthy. Jimmer and Mccallum will divvy up those minutes. I don't realistically expect either to get Belli's minutes. Belli was always subbed in at the SF spot. Those minutes will go to one of Anderson or Simmons, or both.

I respect this opinion. I'm just not putting it past Jimmer to dazzle and become at least a semi-regular in the rotating.

[Spurtacular]

Jimmer and McCallum are both at least 3 to 4 inches shorter than Belli. Both are at best proper substitutes for Parker, but are just too small even at the SG position. In fact, between Jimmer, McCallum, Simmons and Anderson, I think Simmons has the highest likelihood of picking up minutes due to his versatility at SG, SF and even PG.

On paper, this is true. But doing things in summer league (d-league) and doing things in the NBA are often two different things. So, we'll have to see how much their recent success translates.

[cd98]

Not sure if this was already posted.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nba/article_external/jimmer_fredette_can_still_stroke_it/19267597

[Spurtacular]

Not sure if this was already posted.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nba/article_external/jimmer_fredette_can_still_stroke_it/19267597

Spurs fans don't know what they got.

[benefactor]

Spurs fans don't know what they got.
Sure we do...a guy to allow the rotation players to rest during blowouts.

[Spurtacular]

Sure we do...a guy to allow the rotation players to rest during blowouts.

People probably said the same same stuff about Patty.

[will_spurs]

Not sure if this was already posted.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nba/article_external/jimmer_fredette_can_still_stroke_it/19267597

At least one of the comments is gold:


Although Fredette doesn't have the athleticism, playmaking ability, and not nearly the defensive skill that Belinelli has, we all are familiar with his shooting ability

As if Beli had any athleticism or playmaking ability, not to mention the defensive skills of a traffic cone. I wonder what a basketball player who doesn't have "nearly the [same] defensive skill" as Beli looks like! Well ok, maybe he looks like Gary Neal.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Once you say that Belinelli's defense shits all over Jimmer's, there's no way to recover from that. Poor Jimmer looking like Meek out here.

[Aztecfan03]

Once you say that Belinelli's defense shits all over Jimmer's, there's no way to recover from that. Poor Jimmer looking like Meek out here.
that guy doesn't sound like he knows basketball very well.

[will_spurs]

jimmer's defence is even worse than parker

It is. But that's because Parker's defense is a lot better than you seem to think.

[Gladney to see you]

45% from 2 is pretty impressive I have to allow.

[Spurtacular]

45% from 2 is pretty impressive I have to allow.

Yup. Jimmer has 50/40/90 potential. Don't know why some people are so quick to scoff...

[benefactor]

People probably said the same same stuff about Patty.
Actually, most people thought he was great pickup for very obvious reasons...like him having a high enough ceiling to be a rotation player.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193057

Anything else you'd like to throw against the wall to see if it will stick?

[Gladney to see you]

Who finalizes deals like this for a guy like Jimmer. Does Coach get asked?