Jimmer Fredette to the Spurs (Update: Mostly Non-Guaranteed Training Camp Deal) [Archive] - Page 4

ceperez

07-27-2015, 05:02 AM

They have an open spot counting McCallum. Despite the takes from some posters here, there is no competition between them for a roster spot.

We go through this any time a bust shows up on the Spurs. Not every player who gets cut is Danny Green. And to say the Spurs made him is misleading. He worked his ass off in that lost year to become a clearer role-player, taking 1000 shots a day to improve. He also made a commitment to being a hustle guy and changing his entire perspective on his own talent. Few players (especially those on the league's fringe) have Green's dedication or humility, and honestly, it doesn't look like Jimmer is one of those given the fact that his shot is still broken after all these years.

Fredette is going to have to put college behind him and figure out what he needs to fix to become a serviceable NBA player. If he has the attitude of many of his fans, he only has three more months left in his NBA career.

Exactly, Spur are *not* going to sign players who are not willing to change their game to suit the Spurs game. Fredette so far has not been willing to change his game, he has to understand he needs to become a Steve Kerr and not a John Stockton.

The problem is the same as any 6'6" player who wants to play like Michael Jordan but the team wants him to be a 3 and D player. There is only one ball in the court and scrubs need to know their role. If they don't understand this, then they can play in Europe or Asia where they can get the touches and be treated like the man.

playjimmer

07-27-2015, 06:19 AM

i wonder when will playjimmer trolll show up
You called?

AFBlue

07-27-2015, 06:55 AM

Don't know why some are being so definitive on either side of this debate? He's a role player at this level, and nothing more. But, he can still be a successful one. Chinook, I have no idea why you think he needs to fix his shot. He was a prolific scorer with that shot, so I don't see why he'd need to change it. He hasn't been as effective as a pro because he can't create the same kind of space for himself. Luckily, the other Spurs players and system should do that for him.

I'm not sold that he'll be Danny Green, but I do think he has a shot. Curious why so many are being dismissive of the possibility.

Chinook

07-27-2015, 07:10 AM

Chinook, I have no idea why you think he needs to fix his shot. He was a prolific scorer with that shot, so I don't see why he'd need to change it.

Because he has a hitch in his release and the ball is very low when he lets it go. That pretty much means his window to get his shot off is a lot smaller than it should be for him to succeed in the NBA. In a similar way, Anderson needed to fix his shot even though he shot 48 percent from the college three his final year. Jimmer has to be WIDE OPEN to get a shot off in the NBA. That almost never happens and definitely doesn't happen for long enough to consistently get him the ball in those situations.

He hasn't been as effective as a pro because he can't create the same kind of space for himself. Luckily, the other Spurs players and system should do that for him.

That's what I was saying earlier. If he's going to need a team to give him WIDE OPEN looks, then he's really not worth the time. Eddie can spot up with the best of them, and he doesn't really need much space at all. There are a large number of guys who can hit WIDE OPEN shots in the d-league. The goal is finding ones who can get their shot off with minimal space, which improves spacing in the offense. No matter what he did in college, Jimmer's game is keeping him from being a very effective floor-spacer.

ceperez

07-27-2015, 07:12 AM

AFBlue

07-27-2015, 07:15 AM

Isn't it odd that Tebow's last stop in the NFL was with the best organization in the NFL (i.e. The Patriots). He played in the preseason but eventually was released.

Jimmer has a similar opportunity with the best organization in the NBA. If he gets released, then it'll be the end of his career. That's how critical this camp will be for Jimmer. He absolutely has to kill it!

I have no idea why Tebow is a corollary. He was a glorified running back in college, that never had the skills to play QB at the next level. Jimmer is a shooting guard that has the skill set to play his position at the next level...i.e. he can shoot. I agree with the sentiment that this is probably his last stop in the NBA if he can't make it work, but he wouldn't be the first person to figure out the NBA after a few years in the league. And if there's any team that can help him put it together, it's the Spurs.

Chinook

07-27-2015, 07:16 AM

Isn't it odd that Tebow's last stop in the NFL was with the best organization in the NFL (i.e. The Patriots). He played in the preseason but eventually was released.

Tebow signed a deal with the Eagles this off-season.

ceperez

07-27-2015, 07:18 AM

Tebow signed a deal with the Eagles this off-season.

Last I heard was that he went through a lot of work to fix his mechanics. Jimmer possibly may need to spend time out of the NBA to fix his shot.

Read this though about Tebow and the Jets: http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/05/why-the-eagles-signed-tim-tebow-will-tebow-make-philadelphia-eagles-chip-kelly-theory

JuneJive

07-27-2015, 07:25 AM

spurspokesman

07-27-2015, 07:26 AM

Spurs stock piling talent just to package it for a trade down the line me thinks.

ceperez

07-27-2015, 07:31 AM

Why did PATFO even bother with him if he's supposedly that underwhelming?

Because of his personality? The fact that this is his last chance in the league? Maybe they're counting on the fact that he will play to his strenghts and become a sort of a specialist.

Question you got to ask is why PATFO didn't sign him to a guaranteed contract? I mean Ndoye got a similar kind of deal.

I don't think he's underwhelming. He just needs to prove that he's worth the #15 spot.

AFBlue

07-27-2015, 07:38 AM

Because he has a hitch in his release and the ball is very low when he lets it go. That pretty much means his window to get his shot off is a lot smaller than it should be for him to succeed in the NBA. In a similar way, Anderson needed to fix his shot even though he shot 48 percent from the college three his final year. Jimmer has to be WIDE OPEN to get a shot off in the NBA. That almost never happens and definitely doesn't happen for long enough to consistently get him the ball in those situations.

That's what I was saying earlier. If he's going to need a team to give him WIDE OPEN looks, then he's really not worth the time. Eddie can spot up with the best of them, and he doesn't really need much space at all. There are a large number of guys who can hit WIDE OPEN shots in the d-league. The goal is finding ones who can get their shot off with minimal space, which improves spacing in the offense. No matter what he did in college, Jimmer's game is keeping him from being a very effective floor-spacer.

You're exaggerating the slowness of his release because it's not a single forward motion. It's not Eddie quick, but it's not Anderson slow either. Anderson is also not a good comp because he wasn't the volume shooter/scorer that Jimmer was in college. Jimmer proved, even with that extra dip, he could score with the best of them. It might not be as effective in the pros, but I don't think it needs to be totally remade.

And for all the talk about Eddie, I haven't seen a camp invite. Maybe it's forthcoming, but it would seem for the moment that the Spurs have more faith in Jimmer than they do in Eddie.

Darkwaters

07-27-2015, 07:57 AM

It's hard to say, but Eddie might have multiple non-guaranteed offers and he's waiting to see where his bed opportunity lays. That being said, I hope the Spurs can get him to camp.

It's equally likely that Jimmer had multiple camp offers. But if you were him would you go anywhere but San Antonio if given the chance? I don't think he got any fully guaranteed offers. Even at the minimum. That'd be too obvious to pass up. Jimmer will be given a roster shot. He's definitely intriguing considering his college success. But anybody that thinks the Spurs have grander plans for him are just lying to themselves. His chances of making the roster are slim at best. And if he does its for his shooting.

Chinook

07-27-2015, 08:09 AM

You're exaggerating the slowness of his release because it's not a single forward motion. It's not Eddie quick, but it's not Anderson slow either. Anderson is also not a good comp because he wasn't the volume shooter/scorer that Jimmer was in college. Jimmer proved, even with that extra dip, he could score with the best of them. It might not be as effective in the pros, but I don't think it needs to be totally remade.

I'd take Anderson's college shot over Jimmer's shot any day. Anderson's release was and is slow, but it's extremely high, so there's really no chance of the shot being blocked. Kyle's going to have to learn to make shots with guys in his face, so it really isn't a big deal if his release gets faster. He'll never be a spot-up guy.

Jimmer's release is crazy-slow for a shooter, and unlike Anderson, Fredette is going to be playing against taller players and has a VERY realistic chance of getting block on any given attempt. It's also much easier to block his view of the basket, and he needs to have that view for longer due to his release. There's no question in my mind that that's why Fredette has struggled. The NBA is simply too fast for him to have the time to get off shots with his release.

And for all the talk about Eddie, I haven't seen a camp invite. Maybe it's forthcoming, but it would seem for the moment that the Spurs have more faith in Jimmer than they do in Eddie.

From what I have gathered, Eddie is probably turning down invites hoping for a guaranteed contract. He had a deal over in Europe apparently but backed off near the end of the SL. I don't think this has anything to do with the Spurs not wanting to bring him into camp.

Darkwaters

07-27-2015, 08:19 AM

Anybody remember Jack McClinton's struggles? His shot was too low and he couldn't get it off. I think his release was fast too...but the angle killed him.

ceperez

07-27-2015, 10:02 AM

From what I have gathered, Eddie is probably turning down invites hoping for a guaranteed contract. He had a deal over in Europe apparently but backed off near the end of the SL. I don't think this has anything to do with the Spurs not wanting to bring him into camp.

The difference between Jimmer and Eddie in this situation is that Jimmer can afford to take an un-guaranteed contract because he's played 4 years in the league (career earning in the multiple millions considering he's #10 pick). By contrast, Eddie is struggling paycheck to paycheck on a D-league salary. He's is looking for some kind of guarantee that he can feed his family.

To claim Spurs like Jimmer more because they haven't signed Eddie yet doesn't consider the situation of the player. People with the luxury to choose can accept an un-guaranteed contract. Poor folks like Ndoye got no choice but sign to next-to-minimum wage. Eddie is hoping that he has a choice, but in reality he doesn't.

AFBlue

07-27-2015, 10:54 AM

I'd take Anderson's college shot over Jimmer's shot any day. Anderson's release was and is slow, but it's extremely high, so there's really no chance of the shot being blocked. Kyle's going to have to learn to make shots with guys in his face, so it really isn't a big deal if his release gets faster. He'll never be a spot-up guy.

Jimmer's release is crazy-slow for a shooter, and unlike Anderson, Fredette is going to be playing against taller players and has a VERY realistic chance of getting block on any given attempt. It's also much easier to block his view of the basket, and he needs to have that view for longer due to his release. There's no question in my mind that that's why Fredette has struggled. The NBA is simply too fast for him to have the time to get off shots with his release.

From what I have gathered, Eddie is probably turning down invites hoping for a guaranteed contract. He had a deal over in Europe apparently but backed off near the end of the SL. I don't think this has anything to do with the Spurs not wanting to bring him into camp.

Probably doesn't make sense for you and I to keep trading points when neither of our positions are secured in fact or statistics. Saying that there's no doubt in your mind his release is why he's struggled doesn't make it true. Nor does your assertion that Eddie is a wanted man, especially by the Spurs. Could both be true? Sure. But I don't think there's any stat out there (I tried looking for blocked shot rate as an example) to convince either one of us we're wrong.

So, we'll just have to see it play out. But if it plays out in my favor, I'm going to gloat hard because I have no class. Just be prepared for it.

Chinook

07-27-2015, 10:57 AM

Probably doesn't make sense for you and I to keep trading points when neither of our positions are secured in fact or statistics. Saying that there's no doubt in your mind his release is why he's struggled doesn't make it true. Nor does your assertion that Eddie is a wanted man, especially by the Spurs. Could both be true? Sure. But I don't think there's any stat out there (I tried looking for blocked shot rate as an example) to convince either one of us we're wrong.

So, we'll just have to see it play out. But if it plays out in my favor, I'm going to gloat hard because I have no class. Just be prepared for it.

What does it mean for it to work out in your favor? For Jimmer to make the team? For him to make the team without fixing his shot? For him to make the team without fixing his shot but still being at least mildly productive? For all that to happen while Eddie toils away in the d-league?

Right now, Jimmer's only competition for that 15th spot is Reggie Williams. Until the Spurs sign another guy who actually has a chance to make the roster, I'd say Fredette is on the right side of the bubble. But that won't defeat the fact that he shot is broken.

Yuixafun

07-27-2015, 11:10 AM

Wooo, quality discussion on this page.

Much better than the mind numbing crap that is the norm.

Maybe this could become the norm, and Jimmy will earn a spot.

ceperez

07-27-2015, 11:16 AM

What does it mean for it to work out in your favor? For Jimmer to make the team? For him to make the team without fixing his shot? For him to make the team without fixing his shot but still being at least mildly productive? For all that to happen while Eddie toils away in the d-league?

Right now, Jimmer's only competition for that 15th spot is Reggie Williams. Until the Spurs sign another guy who actually has a chance to make the roster, I'd say Fredette is on the right side of the bubble. But that won't defeat the fact that he shot is broken.

There's the dilemma, he can try to fix his shot and deal with the consequences of temporarily having bad percentages or he can stick with what he currently has today. Without a commitment from an organization then he'll likely stick with his broken shot. He isn't going to change unless he is thrown out of the NBA and realize that he has to change his ways. Who knows, maybe that's the reason D. Green is a serviceable player. He was at the end of his rope before he made the realization.

Yuixafun

07-27-2015, 11:33 AM

Reborn's chief teaching method is the "Deathperate Bullet" (死ぬ気弾 Shinukidan?), which causes a person to be "reborn" with a stronger self to execute his dying wish. The clumsy, underachieving Tsuna becomes stronger, more confident and willing, making him a suitable Vongola family boss despite his continued reluctance.

AFBlue

07-27-2015, 11:54 AM

What does it mean for it to work out in your favor? For Jimmer to make the team? For him to make the team without fixing his shot? For him to make the team without fixing his shot but still being at least mildly productive? For all that to happen while Eddie toils away in the d-league?

Right now, Jimmer's only competition for that 15th spot is Reggie Williams. Until the Spurs sign another guy who actually has a chance to make the roster, I'd say Fredette is on the right side of the bubble. But that won't defeat the fact that he shot is broken.

Jimmer becomes a part of the regular rotation without fixing his shot, irrespective of anything Eddie does. Damn you for asking me to give success criteria. Would've loved to claim success on any one of those things.

Chinook

07-27-2015, 11:59 AM

Jimmer becomes a part of the regular rotation without fixing his shot, irrespective of anything Eddie does. Damn you for asking me to give success criteria. Would've loved to claim success on any one of those things.

Well, you're more than welcome to gloat with that criterion. I don't think there's a chance in hell Fredette makes the regular rotation with or without a reworked stroke.

Yuixafun

07-27-2015, 12:07 PM

Loser has to take the other out to Hooter's for some wings!

spursistan

07-27-2015, 12:08 PM

This thread nearing 30 pages is starting to look embarrassing, tbh...

playjimmer

07-27-2015, 12:11 PM

This thread nearing 30 pages is starting to look embarrassing, tbh...
People doubting Jimmer is embarrassing, tbh...

Birn

07-27-2015, 12:11 PM

This whole narrative about his shot needs fixing is a complete fallacy made up by some message board jerk off who thinks he's an NBA shooting coach. If Jimmer performs well in camp and makes plays, he'll make the team. If he doesn't stand out or prove to add some value to the team, he'll be released. Simple as that. Don't know where all this talk is coming from about his shooting form. If someone can post a link or something that has been published about the Spurs wanting to see him change his form, please share.

Chinook

07-27-2015, 12:30 PM

Obstructed_View

07-27-2015, 12:50 PM

This thread nearing 30 pages is starting to look embarrassing, tbh...

What's really stupid is that someone thinks that his shooting is the weak part of his game.

Chinook

07-27-2015, 01:03 PM

What's really stupid is that someone thinks that his shooting is the weak part of his game.

It's more than some group of people think that his calling card isn't NBA level, which calls into question is ability to stick in the league.

spurraider21

07-27-2015, 01:12 PM

What's really stupid is that someone thinks that his shooting is the weak part of his game.
nobody is calling it his weak point. he's a one trick pony and the trick is shooting. people are questioning if he's good enough at that trick to stick in the nba

Obstructed_View

07-27-2015, 01:30 PM

It's more than some group of people think that his calling card isn't NBA level, which calls into question is ability to stick in the league.

I tend to agree with that, which is why he's taking non-guaranteed contracts to be the 15th guy on the roster. I guess I somehow misunderstood "his shot is broken". His calling card was good enough to get him drafted in the lottery. But it's realistically every other part of his game which calls into question his ability to stick in the league. Pop usually has a guard version of Matt Bonner. Last year it was Marco, and he's got some other skills that Jimmer probably doesn't possess.

Chinook

07-27-2015, 01:39 PM

I tend to agree with that, which is why he's taking non-guaranteed contracts to be the 15th guy on the roster. I guess I somehow misunderstood "his shot is broken". His calling card was good enough to get him drafted in the lottery. But it's realistically every other part of his game which calls into question his ability to stick in the league. Pop usually has a guard version of Matt Bonner. Last year it was Marco, and he's got some other skills that Jimmer probably doesn't possess.

I think it's just semantics. Of course I agree that if Jimmer were an all-around player, the fact that his shooting form is broken wouldn't matter. Look at Marion and his busted form (which was at least quick, mind you). But I also think that if his form weren't broken (if he could get his shot off fast enough to be as successful in the NBA as in college), he'd be fine.

Simply put, his form is not ideal, and it leaves no margin for error. That's just not acceptable for a guy who's supposed to be a shooter. Even if he fixes, his form, he's not going to be much better than the slew of other shooters in and around the league. Jimmer has a lot of growth ahead of him if he's to make a legit rotation.

beirmeistr

07-27-2015, 01:39 PM

Speaking of someone needing his shot fixed, I wonder what would have happened if the Spurs had drafted Shawn Marion?

Chinook

07-27-2015, 01:41 PM

Speaking of someone needing his shot fixed, I wonder what would have happened if the Spurs had drafted Shawn Marion?

"They did." - TGY

beirmeistr

07-27-2015, 01:42 PM

"They did." - TGY

are you kidding?

Chinook

07-27-2015, 01:45 PM

are you kidding?

Lucky you for not knowing that schtick.

beirmeistr

07-27-2015, 01:57 PM

Lucky you for not knowing that schtick.

I don't get it---I looked it up and Marion was drafted by the Suns. Were the Spurs interested or what?

Yuixafun

07-27-2015, 02:04 PM

I think someone compares Kawhi to Marion..

Chinook

07-27-2015, 02:04 PM

I don't get it---I looked it up and Marion was drafted by the Suns. Were the Spurs interested or what?

TGY ( TheGreatYacht ) has a schtick where he says Kawhi is essentially Marion reincarnated (meaning a defender who's offensively limited and who isn't able to be a true star).

beirmeistr

07-27-2015, 02:12 PM

TGY ( TheGreatYacht ) has a schtick where he says Kawhi is essentially Marion reincarnated (meaning a defender who's offensively limited and who isn't able to be a true star).

ok, now I get it. thanks for the explanation.

dabom

07-27-2015, 02:18 PM

Jimmer is 6 2 and cant defend people his size. He's going to go up again way taller people for his position. Dude shoots top low for the the NBA. Dude Isa Bum

HankChinaski

07-27-2015, 03:08 PM

NBA Training Camp needs to start tomorrow for a lot of people here. 26 pages of jimmer talk...

Birn

07-27-2015, 03:43 PM

Jimmer is 6 2 and cant defend people his size. He's going to go up again way taller people for his position. Dude shoots top low for the the NBA. Dude Isa Bum

JJ Redick says hello.

BatManu20

07-27-2015, 03:43 PM

Jimmer is 6 2 and cant defend people his size. He's going to go up again way taller people for his position. Dude shoots top low for the the NBA. Dude Isa Bum

6'2 is a generous listing too, tbh. Looks closer to 6'1.

Spurtacular

07-27-2015, 04:07 PM

Tebow won one playoff game and then got destroyed. Even when he was "winning", he was horrible statistically. The point I was making is that despite being a high-character guy, he didn't seem to think he needed to make obvious changes to his game to make it to the pros. The same seems true of Jimmer. He's been in the league for too damned long to shoot like his does.

Essentially, people who are arguing that the Spurs' system will get the best out of him are asserting that the looks he'll get will allow him to show how good of a shooter he is. But there are probably a hundred players who can make threes at a good rate if all they do is spot up. I'd much rather have Eddie, who's a better shooter and bigger (and younger) over Jimmer for the role Fredette would have.

Don't understand this at all.

Well, I don't know how much of it was that Tebow wouldn't change or couldn't change or I'd argue a third option that he legitimately didn't see the benefit of changing (drastically). But all that is beside the point I guess.

I've followed Jimmer; and to the best of my knowledge, the Kings and Pelicans never asked him to change his shooting mechanics. If the Spurs want to work with him at changes, I believe he'll be receptive. Personally, I don't think his mechanics are necessarily the issue that people are making it out to be. Yes, Jimmer has a high release. So, did Ray Allen. The Spurs worked with KL to get his release higher. But certainly, Jimmer could be aided by learning to release at different points ala Curry.

There are plenty of good three shooters. But the argument that Jimmer is only one of many should be tempered. We wouldn't use that argument for Danny Green. Even before he improved his defense and mental fortitude, we weren't going there, imo. Jimmer is a guy that can shoot 40 plus percent from three; and there aren't that many guys like that, tbh. He has led the league from deep threes at times; so, he is at another elite level when it comes to shooting the three. That is obviously the intrigue about him for many. Also, he is a guy who wants to shoot the ball in the pressure situations; he is a guy that has proved that he will make some of his biggest shots when they count the most.

As for for Eddie, I mentioned a critical mass of minutes, and you say you don't understand. Well, what's better having him on the bench night after night or being in the d-league working on his game? That's the same reason that Anderson was sent to Austin last year (in addition to his early struggles), and it's the reason that CoJo volunteered to go to the d-league at one point. So, bringing Eddie up for him to sit on the end of the bench doesn't make sense if Pop thinks Jimmer can contribute. And tbh, I believe this is how the FO sees it.

Spurtacular

07-27-2015, 04:10 PM

No way in hell McCallum will be cut.

I don't think it's likely. I'm just noting that it's within the realm of possibility.

ChumpDumper

07-27-2015, 04:11 PM

I don't think it's likely. I'm just noting that it's within the realm of possibility.If he dies or something like that.

Spurtacular

07-27-2015, 04:18 PM

Let's be clear, I didn't make it out to be anything. It's widely used. I was also not even the first to bring it up. Someone else told you how bad Jimmer's ratio was. They were off a little though as it's about 1.75. Still shitty. But, not me. I didn't make it out to be anything it is not, or even bring it up. It is one stat of many, it gives some glimpse, and it is not a positive one. I used their number, but do agree with them. And, Kobe? LMFAO. You're comparing a HOFer with Jimmer based upon his asst to turnover ratio. No, Kobe's ratio isn't that relevant. Kobe had a few other things to hang his hat on when he sold himself on the market. You are tryin' to market a limited Jimmer as a point guard, quite significantly, and Jimmer doesn't have Kobe's other talents. So, yes, Jimmer's ratio will be relevant and scrutinized. Lastly, one of the most criticized aspects of Kobe's game was he was a black hole that didn' get his teammates involved, so even that aspect of Kobe's game was scrutinized! I don't know that it's a win for you to be comparing him to Kobe. And, Kobe is not a PG, either. Compare him to PG if you want to talk up his ability to play that position and talk down McCallum's, but you probably tried to find some other PG with shitty ratios and found out they were all shitty players so you ran with Kobe.

But, could he improve in a better situation, sure. He could. But, he still has an uphill battle vs the points as a point, or the shootings as a shooting guard.

As someone who's watched Jimmer, I've never been overly concerned with his turnovers. His value is in whether he's getting shots and getting them to drop. His secondary value is being an offensive catalyst. His ability to drive and kick as well as to spread the floor has created offense not explicitly represented by an a:t ratio. His presence has led to a lot of frantic defensive rotations; and I'd say due to defenders crashing on him, he racks up a lot of hockey assists not counted on a normal a:t ratio.

And I wasn't comparing Jimmer to Kobe btw. I was simply showing you one example of the limitations of a:t ratio.

And as an aside, Jimmer has played for coaches who have routinely taken him out when he does any little thing wrong. Pop will do that to players when a mistake is so egregious; but he doesn't do it as a routine. I expect Jimmer's faith in the system that doesn't punish him for any mishap to help him to improve confidence and subsequently various stats including hopefully a:t ratio.

Spurtacular

07-27-2015, 04:21 PM

I think I'm going to enjoy the rest of my evening now offline, but I urge you to rethink and listen to that interview if you have any hope that McCallum will be cut.

I have listened to that interview. In fact, I've quoted that interview to you. And I never said I hoped that McCallum got cut. I am actually 'hoping' it's Reggie Williams that is cut/traded at this point. I was just telling you that if certain players play well and McCallum doesn't, then you may not be seeing him around for long.

Spurtacular

07-27-2015, 04:29 PM

Well, you're more than welcome to gloat with that criterion. I don't think there's a chance in hell Fredette makes the regular rotation with or without a reworked stroke.

That could depend on injuries; but my expectation isn't for Jimmer to see regular minutes in a healthy rotation that already features Parker, Ginobili, Green, Mills among others.... But it will be fun when there are injuries and we maybe have those nights where we get to see Jimmer play some extended minutes. It's those minutes that will likely define Jimmer's future prospects with the organization / NBA.

Gladney to see you

07-27-2015, 04:37 PM

Spurtacular

07-27-2015, 04:38 PM

Spurtacular

07-27-2015, 04:42 PM

Jimmer is one of the few players in the league that offenses immediately attack when on the floor. I know Manu's eyes certainly lit up. We have a good defense but I doubt we can protect him if he did play.

Most PGs in this league don't have the green light (or stamina necessarily) to sustain attack after attack. Teams can take advantage on the first possession or two that Jimmer is in a game. But it's over-stated what they can do over a stretch. Also, the Spurs can use that to their advantage. If other teams don't want to move the ball, then Jimmer's teammates can get a bit of a breather and be better on offense and in help defense.

nickdaquick

07-27-2015, 04:50 PM

Nathan89

07-27-2015, 04:52 PM

Last I heard was that he went through a lot of work to fix his mechanics. Jimmer possibly may need to spend time out of the NBA to fix his shot.

Read this though about Tebow and the Jets: http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/05/why-the-eagles-signed-tim-tebow-will-tebow-make-philadelphia-eagles-chip-kelly-theory

I thought the last you heard was that Tebow last stop in the NFL was with the Patriots.

Spurtacular

07-27-2015, 05:04 PM

How do you know he's made improvements defensively?

I'm sorry but I don't see any argument in which Jimmer's defense can be construed as better than Parkers. Parker is not a good defender but he is miles ahead of Jimmer.

I've followed Jimmer. I was surprised at how bad his individual defense was in rookie year. There is a poster on YT: Misael V. who posts vids of Jimmer (Pelicans) last year; and he'll show the defensive possessions. Jimmer does a vastly improved job of moving his feet and keeping offensive players in front of him.

As for Parker; he's always had defensive deficiencies. I think his ability to punish PGs offensively last year made his defensive shortcomings more glaring. Parker was arguably the worst defender in the league last year. He is not "miles ahead of Jimmer."

Nathan89

07-27-2015, 05:11 PM

Spurtacular

07-27-2015, 05:16 PM

Spurtacular

07-27-2015, 05:23 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsPyOFjZj0w

Bruno

07-27-2015, 05:45 PM

Hoops Czar

07-27-2015, 05:47 PM

People talking about Jimmer's defense.

I'll concede that it's bottom of the league quality. He has made some improvements in his one on one defense in his time in the league. He still needs to improve on pick n' roll angles and closeout angles. At this point, the argument could be made that he's better of a defender than Parker (who is a terrible defender). I think Jimmer's defense will improve in the Spurs system, which does a better job of accounting for opposing offensive systems. When teams go at Jimmer, Pop has his ways of mitigating such things.

In four years, the Spurs coaching staff couldn't turn CoJo into a PG. I'm not sure how much luck they'll have transforming Jimmer, who has more holes in his game than a slice of Swiss cheese into a competent NBA player in a month's time. As for his defense, Tony Parker has been one of the worst defenders in the NBA the last two seasons but, but, but, the Spurs system. What did the Spurs system do for Belinelli's defense? Or Bonner's defense? Or Ayers defense? Or Michael Finley's defense back in the day? Let's stop putting lipstick on pigs and move on. There isn't a system in the world that would make Jimmer look even the least bit proficient on defense. Who on the current roster would he be stealing minutes from? He's currently the 5th best SG and/or PG on the team depending on where you slot Manu/Mills. If the NBA was set up like the NFL, he'd be relegated to practice squad. Think of it this way, if he makes the final roster cuts, something went horribly wrong in training camp.

littlecoyotecoin

07-27-2015, 06:01 PM

As someone who's watched Jimmer, I've never been overly concerned with his turnovers. His value is in whether he's getting shots and getting them to drop. His secondary value is being an offensive catalyst. His ability to drive and kick as well as to spread the floor has created offense not explicitly represented by an a:t ratio. His presence has led to a lot of frantic defensive rotations; and I'd say due to defenders crashing on him, he racks up a lot of hockey assists not counted on a normal a:t ratio.

And I wasn't comparing Jimmer to Kobe btw. I was simply showing you one example of the limitations of a:t ratio.

And as an aside, Jimmer has played for coaches who have routinely taken him out when he does any little thing wrong. Pop will do that to players when a mistake is so egregious; but he doesn't do it as a routine. I expect Jimmer's faith in the system that doesn't punish him for any mishap to help him to improve confidence and subsequently various stats including hopefully a:t ratio.

...glad to see you backpedaling on some of what I seem to remember as trying to sell him as being able to run the point...again, I wish him luck.

littlecoyotecoin

07-27-2015, 06:12 PM

I have listened to that interview. In fact, I've quoted that interview to you. And I never said I hoped that McCallum got cut. I am actually 'hoping' it's Reggie Williams that is cut/traded at this point. I was just telling you that if certain players play well and McCallum doesn't, then you may not be seeing him around for long.

I didn't say you were hoping he did get cut. I said IF you had hope. Which it still sounds as if you do. Despite your protest otherwise: for example, if Williams doesn't get cut, who is next on your wish list?! Ray is not trying out for the team. He is on the team. He won't be getting cut for quite some time into the season, if at all (if he plays REALLY poorly, but even then I can't imagine them cutting him), and only if something much better came available. Or, a trade, maybe.

Jimmer might not be on the team on November, 1. They're just in two different categories.

There is no equating them at this point.

littlecoyotecoin

07-27-2015, 06:21 PM

Jimmer's per 36 3pa and his 3p% isn't bad imo (last year was bad though). In fact his 3pa is higher than what Redick had in his Orlando days and only about 1 less than D. Green and Redick currently. I think the threat of him not getting his shot off because of his shot mechanics is being greatly exaggerated.

I'm mostly concerned about his ability to defend.

Yeah. I also think he has an outside chance of dazzling the coaches with offense so much they feel like they have to take a shot at giving him the roster spot despite his defense. Same thing with Eddie. His shot is so nice they may feel compelled to give him a shot.

littlecoyotecoin

07-27-2015, 06:26 PM

In four years, the Spurs coaching staff couldn't turn CoJo into a PG. I'm not sure how much luck they'll have transforming Jimmer, who has more holes in his game than a slice of Swiss cheese into a competent NBA player in a month's time. As for his defense, Tony Parker has been one of the worst defenders in the NBA the last two seasons but, but, but, the Spurs system. What did the Spurs system do for Belinelli's defense? Or Bonner's defense? Or Ayers defense? Or Michael Finley's defense back in the day? Let's stop putting lipstick on pigs and move on. There isn't a system in the world that would make Jimmer look even the least bit proficient on defense. Who on the current roster would he be stealing minutes from? He's currently the 5th best SG and/or PG on the team depending on where you slot Manu/Mills. If the NBA was set up like the NFL, he'd be relegated to practice squad. Think of it this way, if he makes the final roster cuts, something went horribly wrong in training camp.

And, he's comparing a young Jimmer at almost peak athleticism to Parker's defense the last two years when he's been banged up more than usual, and older. Comparing him to Parker's defense overall, Jimmer is not a better defender. It is not Parker's strength, but it's not as bad as some make it out to be. Tiago's defense this year wasn't very good either. He was injured. I wouldn't let that tarnish his defensive reputation as a whole.

playjimmer

07-27-2015, 06:32 PM

And, he's comparing a young Jimmer at almost peak athleticism to Parker's defense the last two years when he's been banged up more than usual, and older. Comparing him to Parker's defense overall, Jimmer is not a better defender. It is not Parker's strength, but it's not as bad as some make it out to be. Tiago's defense this year wasn't very good either. He was injured. I wouldn't let that tarnish his defensive reputation as a whole.
Guess what. Parker is going to be older next year than this past year.

Gladney to see you

07-27-2015, 06:33 PM

I'm hard on the guy but he can still score on most guards and has a pretty good pick and roll in the few games against us

littlecoyotecoin

07-27-2015, 06:36 PM

Guess what. Parker is going to be older next year than this past year.

How does that make Jimmer's defense better. He's saying it's better than fat, old, injured Parker's defense. Not a good sales technique. "Hey, you want to buy a kick in the nuts? It's better than a stick in the eye!"

Bruno

07-27-2015, 06:57 PM

625810642641948672

So keeping Fredette will cost $2.37M to Spurs.

littlecoyotecoin

07-27-2015, 06:59 PM

625810642641948672

So keeping Fredette will cost $2.37M to Spurs.

Welcome to The Spurs...

Jarrell!

Dverde

07-27-2015, 07:02 PM

Maybe we could use Jimmer at the free throw line to close out games. You can't trust TP, Manu, Kawhi, or TD to hit them. I'm assuming he is a great free throw shooter...

Dverde

07-27-2015, 07:05 PM

Maybe we could use Jimmer at the free throw line to close out games. You can't trust TP, Manu, Kawhi, or TD to hit them. I'm assuming he is a great free throw shooter...

He made 43 of 45 last year

ceperez

07-27-2015, 07:31 PM

Something else to consider about Fredette odds at making the roster is the financial aspect. Because Spurs are above the tax, it will cost them quite a lot of money to keep him (between $2M and $2.4M depending on his likely guaranteed amount).

In a scenario where Fredette is doing fine (but nothing great) and is better than the other candidates for the 15th roster spot, it might still be cut if at the same time Simmons, Anderson, McCallum are also doing fine. It could take both Fredette doing fine and Spurs needing him because some other players are sucking for him to get that roster spot.

I agree, it appears a 14th spot gets vacated before Fredette can get signed. The folks likely to vacate the spot may be Bonner (if he choses to retire early or his contract just happens to be unguaranteed) or Anderson (if Spurs realize he doesn't have a future). Everyone else is either a key player or gets paid too little to make it worthwhile to waive.

benefactor

07-27-2015, 07:33 PM

:lol this thread

At this rate, we could see a pretty solid meltdown when he gets cut...probably Pops Mensa-Bonsu level or better.

Bruno

07-27-2015, 07:45 PM

Welcome to The Spurs...

Jarrell!

Jarell Eddie (or another rookie FA) will also cost quite a lot of money. $1.95M to be exact.

Filling that 15th roster spot isn't a cheap move for Spurs. If Spurs feel that they don't really need Fredette or Reggie Williams as 15th player, they can just leave that spot open and save the money.

playjimmer

07-27-2015, 07:53 PM

I agree, it appears a 14th spot gets vacated before Fredette can get signed. The folks likely to vacate the spot may be Bonner (if he choses to retire early or his contract just happens to be unguaranteed) or Anderson (if Spurs realize he doesn't have a future). Everyone else is either a key player or gets paid too little to make it worthwhile to waive.
It doesn't appear anything. You have no idea what the FO is willing to spend.

Mel_13

07-27-2015, 07:59 PM

:lol this thread

At this rate, we could see a pretty solid meltdown when he gets cut...probably Pops Mensa-Bonsu level or better.

At least Eddy Curry level.

littlecoyotecoin

07-27-2015, 08:00 PM

Jarell Eddie (or another rookie FA) will also cost quite a lot of money. $1.95M to be exact.

Filling that 15th roster spot isn't a cheap move for Spurs. If Spurs feel that they don't really need Fredette or Reggie Williams as 15th player, they can just leave that spot open and save the money.

Yes. I know. It was a bit of humor.

Gladney to see you

07-27-2015, 08:02 PM

Nothing is ever is with Jimmer.

spurraider21

07-27-2015, 08:10 PM

At least Eddy Curry level.
still can't believe we let him get away

Maddog

07-27-2015, 08:23 PM

:lol this thread

At this rate, we could see a pretty solid meltdown when he gets cut...probably Pops Mensa-Bonsu level or better.QUO

At least Eddy Curry level.

The twin towers that never was
A definite missed opportunity

bic50

07-27-2015, 08:26 PM

Did the Aldridge signing with the spurs thread go this long? Damn

AFBlue

07-27-2015, 09:25 PM

Did the Aldridge signing with the spurs thread go this long? Damn

Pretty sure it went 10 times as long tbqh.

playjimmer

07-27-2015, 09:30 PM

Pretty sure it went 10 times as long tbqh.
That was the thread anticipating his signing. But there wasn't much left to discuss once he actually signed, so his signing thread was short.

Spurtacular

07-27-2015, 09:42 PM

...glad to see you backpedaling on some of what I seem to remember as trying to sell him as being able to run the point...again, I wish him luck.

Dafuq you talking about.

Spurtacular

07-27-2015, 09:43 PM

I didn't say you were hoping he did get cut. I said IF you had hope. Which it still sounds as if you do. Despite your protest otherwise: for example, if Williams doesn't get cut, who is next on your wish list?! Ray is not trying out for the team. He is on the team. He won't be getting cut for quite some time into the season, if at all (if he plays REALLY poorly, but even then I can't imagine them cutting him), and only if something much better came available. Or, a trade, maybe.

Jimmer might not be on the team on November, 1. They're just in two different categories.

There is no equating them at this point.

I'd rather have Jimmer than Ray. But I understand that some might see Ray as 'the safe choice.' Jimmer's upside is much bigger than Ray's....

#truth

monkeypunk

07-27-2015, 09:49 PM

Nothing is ever is with Jimmer.

http://i.imgur.com/AYch4Io.gif

littlecoyotecoin

07-27-2015, 09:59 PM

I'd rather have Jimmer than Ray. But I understand that some might see Ray as 'the safe choice.' Jimmer's upside is much bigger than Ray's....

#truth

So, you ARE hoping Ray gets cut for Jimmer. Why the dancing around it.

Johnny RIngo

07-27-2015, 10:05 PM

Why did PATFO even bother with him if he's supposedly that underwhelming?

He's cheap so there's really no risk involved here. Probably going to test the waters like what they did with Daye(another one dimensional shooter). I doubt he'll even last as long as Daye though.

exstatic

07-27-2015, 10:09 PM

Why did PATFO even bother with him if he's supposedly that underwhelming?

Because of his personality? The fact that this is his last chance in the league? Maybe they're counting on the fact that he will play to his strenghts and become a sort of a specialist.

He has the same agent as David West, and Pop/RC are doing him a solid for the solid DW did for us. Sometimes it just comes down to shit like that. He had NO other NBA interest, and I honestly thing he's just auditioning for Europe.

littlecoyotecoin

07-27-2015, 10:13 PM

I'd rather have Jimmer than Ray. But I understand that some might see Ray as 'the safe choice.' Jimmer's upside is much bigger than Ray's....

#truth

And, also by that admission, you're advocating for him to be the backup PG, playing a similar role to CJ, at about 1500 minutes.

Bruno

07-27-2015, 10:21 PM

Not sure if it has been posted here, but an interview of Fredette just after he signed with Spurs:
http://espn700sports.com/espn700-interviews/jimmer-fredette-former-byu-current-spurs-guard-7-23-15/

playjimmer

07-27-2015, 11:37 PM

And, also by that admission, you're advocating for him to be the backup PG, playing a similar role to CJ, at about 1500 minutes.
CJ had that many minutes because Mills was injured.

Jimmer is going to get more SG minutes anyways.

ElNono

07-27-2015, 11:47 PM

Hoops Czar

07-27-2015, 11:53 PM

CJ had that many minutes because Mills was injured.

This troll's gonna have a real short tenure on Spurstalk.

playjimmer

07-27-2015, 11:55 PM

This troll's gonna have a real short tenure on Spurstalk.
Jimmer is going to be here longer than you.

SPURt

07-28-2015, 12:18 AM

Jimmer is going to be here longer than you.
How do you know Hoops Czar isn't Mormon? How are you sure Mormonism is the right choice? Of the great multiple choice of which religion is right (including the "none of the above option"), are we super sure we want to color in the bubble next to Mormon? How has this thread not become a thread questioning the meaning of life and what comes next?

Spurtacular

07-28-2015, 12:24 AM

So, you ARE hoping Ray gets cut for Jimmer. Why the dancing around it.

I don't think that's going to be the decision. But I'll take Jimmer over Ray, yes.

Spurtacular

07-28-2015, 12:33 AM

So, you ARE hoping Ray gets cut for Jimmer. Why the dancing around it.

As a Spurs fan I'm probably 70/30 for keeping Ray over Reggie. As a Jimmer fan, I would prefer not to have a Ray taking away valuable minutes from Jimmer.

But I think Ray has the inside track on being kept because cutting him means a bigger financial hit to the Spurs.

Spurtacular

07-28-2015, 12:36 AM

And, also by that admission, you're advocating for him to be the backup PG, playing a similar role to CJ, at about 1500 minutes.

No role is too big for Jimmer as far as I'm concerned. The kid can ball.

BG_Spurs_Fan

07-28-2015, 12:49 AM

Genuinely surprised there are people who actually think Jimmer will stick and play. As mentioned numerous times already, they're doing his and David West's agent a solid. He'll get some exposure during pre-season in the hope that some team will notice him and make him an offer, so he'd stick in the NBA and wouldn't have to go to Europe. Barring serious injuries they're not paying $2.5M for Jimmer, no way.

Spurtacular

07-28-2015, 01:17 AM

dweaver99027

07-28-2015, 01:19 AM

Spurtacular

07-28-2015, 01:23 AM

Fredette's track record and advanced stats in his NBA career so far are way better than Mills' at the time of his acquisition . Not guaranteeing anything about Fredette, different skillset than Mills and all, but never say never.

Yup. Though, you'll take a lot of heat for daring to compare Jimmer to such a revered rotation player who has contributed so much.

I think Spurs fans often fail to see how much a good/bad system can affect a player's advancement.

BG_Spurs_Fan

07-28-2015, 01:28 AM

If the Spurs wanted to do West a favor for giving the bargain basement price, why wouldn't they just go all the way?

By signing a player they wouldn't otherwise want? :lol Don't be ridiculous.

And it's not West, it's his agent. Don't mistake a 50-70k goodwill favour for a 2.5M commitment.

Spurtacular

07-28-2015, 01:32 AM

By signing a player they wouldn't otherwise want? :lol Don't be ridiculous.

And it's not West, it's his agent. Don't mistake a 50-70k goodwill favour for a 2.5M commitment.

IMO, you're making a large assumption that the Spurs don't want Jimmer. I don't think the Spurs are that intent on forgoing their 15th roster position to avoid paying a little luxury tax either.

ceperez

07-28-2015, 05:01 AM

Not sure if it has been posted here, but an interview of Fredette just after he signed with Spurs:
http://espn700sports.com/espn700-interviews/jimmer-fredette-former-byu-current-spurs-guard-7-23-15/

Good interview. Well spoken. Covers a lot of areas covered here.

He didn't speak to Chip though.

How is he going to beat out McCallum or Simmons?

Tough odds, but Spurs want to see that in a player. Working hard even if the odds are slim.

Nathan89

07-28-2015, 05:58 AM

Simmons can play sf so I'm not sure why KA isn't in the discussion of who Jimmer can beat out. Of course in that scenario Simmons also has to beat out KA which he will.

Chinook

07-28-2015, 06:13 AM

Simmons can play sf so I'm not sure why KA isn't in the discussion of who Jimmer can beat out. Of course in that scenario Simmons also has to beat out KA which he will.

Anderson is considerably better than Jimmer. Considerably. Only way Jimmer gets a spot over him would be if Pop thinks that a Mills, Fredette, Ginobili perimeter bench makes sense. It doesn't.

AFBlue

07-28-2015, 06:13 AM

:lol multiple posters saying the Spurs are just doing an agent a solid

Ridiculous. They need shooters, Jimmer is a good one. He may come to camp and suck it up, then we won't have anything to talk about. But, if he does well, it's not like the Spurs are going to turn him away because they were just helping out an agent along the way.

AFBlue

07-28-2015, 06:15 AM

Simmons can play sf so I'm not sure why KA isn't in the discussion of who Jimmer can beat out. Of course in that scenario Simmons also has to beat out KA which he will.

Both have guaranteed deals. All he has to beat out is Reggie and prove that he's worth going over the tax.

dweaver99027

07-28-2015, 06:16 AM

Food for thought... What do you think Jimmer's averages would be had he been a part of this year's SL team? What would the general level of excitement about his signing be then?

Chinook

07-28-2015, 06:39 AM

Food for thought... What do you think Jimmer's averages would be had he been a part of this year's SL team? What would the general level of excitement about his signing be then?

That's not a bad question at all. I'm not sure how well he would do. He'd probably look something like Bertans, better than Dairius looked for most of the time but not as good as he looked that first game. I imagine he would have started over Eddie at least initially in Vegas, but I don't think would have outperformed what Jarrell did down the stretch.

TheCerebral1

07-28-2015, 07:01 AM

29 pages on a guy who can barely dribble. Crazy.

Bruno

07-28-2015, 07:40 AM

Chinook

07-28-2015, 07:43 AM

MaNu4Tres

07-28-2015, 07:57 AM

625935855585103873

That's a big partial guarantee and it changes a lot the way to view Fredette training camp odds. Fredette is more than just a training camp invite. His odds at making the roster at the end of the training camp are really high because Spurs will save no money by cutting him at that moment. The only case where cutting him would makes sense would be if Spurs need a roster spot because a training camp invite has shined.

Fredette is basically guaranteed to be a Spurs until December 15th. At that moment Spurs could trade him away to save some luxury tax if he sucks.

Rejoice Jimmer fans, it looks like Spurs still believe in your guy quite heavily.

Another thing, Pincus has Bonner as Non- Guaranteed as well -- that's interesting.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/

Bruno

07-28-2015, 08:00 AM

Another thing, Pincus has Bonner as Non- Guaranteed as well -- that's interesting.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/

I saw it but he also said in a tweet that he still needed to check that.

AFBlue

07-28-2015, 08:06 AM

Bruno

07-28-2015, 08:12 AM

Yeah, that's a big deal. I don't hate it if they can fix his shot. Again, I wonder if he's insurance for Mills, who's apparently too hurt to play this summer. Now that it's pretty clear there won't be a training-camp competition, I am interested to see who all they bring in. Two more obvious Toros spots available.

Mills said he was fine to play the Oceania tournament but that he couldn't play the preparation tournament in Europe. To me, it sounds like a lot of BS and it's just that he didn't want to spend these weeks with the NT practicing/playing in Europe. I just don't wee why he isn't able to play games in late July but can in mid August while his season has ended in early May.

My guess about Fredette is jut that Spurs think he is the best they can do in free agency to play a Gary Neal/Roger Mason role.

MaNu4Tres

07-28-2015, 08:18 AM

I saw it but he also said in a tweet that he still needed to check that.

He checked in on it yesterday evening after the question was asked via twitter in the late afternoon. It looks like the only thing lacking some clarity is Bonner's date.

dweaver99027

07-28-2015, 08:22 AM

What is Reggie Williams' contract status? Is he partially guaranteed as well?

Darkwaters

07-28-2015, 08:27 AM

What is Reggie Williams' contract status? Is he partially guaranteed as well?

A very small partial. Very similar to a camp deal essentially.

ceperez

07-28-2015, 08:31 AM

625935855585103873

That's a big partial guarantee and it changes a lot the way to view Fredette training camp odds. Fredette is more than just a training camp invite. His odds at making the roster at the end of the training camp are really high because Spurs will save no money by cutting him at that moment. The only case where cutting him would makes sense would be if Spurs need a roster spot because a training camp invite has shined.

Fredette is basically guaranteed to be a Spurs until December 15th. At that moment Spurs could trade him away to save some luxury tax if he sucks.

Rejoice Jimmer fans, it looks like Spurs still believe in your guy quite heavily.

Good news for Jimmer fans. No wonder Jimmer was happy enough to tweet his signing.

Jimmer is a Spur until at least til January.

Chinook

07-28-2015, 08:31 AM

Mills said he was fine to play the Oceania tournament but that he couldn't play the preparation tournament in Europe. To me, it sounds like a lot of BS and it's just that he didn't want to spend these weeks with the NT practicing/playing in Europe. I just don't wee why he isn't able to play games in late July but can in mid August while his season has ended in early May.

My guess about Fredette is jut that Spurs think he is the best they can do in free agency to play a Gary Neal/Roger Mason role.

I assume the same. But I still think it's worth keeping an eye on Mills. He seems to be fully over the injury look at the playoffs, but he also played arguably his best ball with the tear. The way Jimmer's contract is set up, it seems like the team wants him available to spell guys in the first half of the season. Could totally see them going easy on Mills in addition to Parker and Manu (as far as perimeter players go) this season.

Darkwaters

07-28-2015, 08:32 AM

29 pages on a guy who can barely dribble. Crazy.

Half of this thread is an integrated "McCallum vs. CoJo" debate.

dweaver99027

07-28-2015, 08:32 AM

So it's probably him getting the axe first. Or Bonner if he's lightly guaranteed and Pop decides to go for perimeter depth rather than a 6th big...

Darkwaters

07-28-2015, 08:36 AM

I assume the same. But I still think it's worth keeping an eye on Mills. He seems to be fully over the injury look at the playoffs, but he also played arguably his best ball with the tear. The way Jimmer's contract is set up, it seems like the team wants him available to spell guys in the first half of the season. Could totally see them going easy on Mills in addition to Parker and Manu (as far as perimeter players go) this season.

That could be because of potential injuries. It could also be because all of their wing depth has major question marks associated with them. Manu's getting old and less reliable, Simmons hasn't played a single NBA minute and Anderson hasn't proven that he is more than a Summer League and D-League standout. Obviously Jimmer has a plethora of questions surrounding him and his ability, but if you roll the dice enough times eventually you'll hit.

ceperez

07-28-2015, 08:36 AM

I assume the same. But I still think it's worth keeping an eye on Mills. He seems to be fully over the injury look at the playoffs, but he also played arguably his best ball with the tear. The way Jimmer's contract is set up, it seems like the team wants him available to spell guys in the first half of the season. Could totally see them going easy on Mills in addition to Parker and Manu (as far as perimeter players go) this season.

Two things that Jimmer could do better than McCallum. (1) Setup the offense and (2) shoot the 3. I wasn't too impressed with McCallum's interview, however being a son of a coach, I hope he has a higher level of PG skills. Just from videos alone, I would even go out on a limb and say that Simmons has better passing skills than McCallum.

ceperez

07-28-2015, 08:41 AM

That could be because of potential injuries. It could also be because all of their wing depth has major question marks associated with them. Manu's getting old and less reliable, Simmons hasn't played a single NBA minute and Anderson hasn't proven that he is more than a Summer League and D-League standout. Obviously Jimmer has a plethora of questions surrounding him and his ability, but if you roll the dice enough times eventually you'll hit.

Regarding rolling the dice, Steve Nash in the beginning of his career was more of a knock-down shooter than a playmaker. Nash wasn't great defensively, but he won like 2 MVPs. Nash in his first 4 years in the NBA average less than 9 points a game. So let's not sell Jimmer short because he can't defend.

Chinook

07-28-2015, 08:41 AM

Two things that Jimmer could do better than McCallum. (1) Setup the offense and (2) shoot the 3. I wasn't too impressed with McCallum's interview, however being a son of a coach, I hope he has a higher level of PG skills. Just from videos alone, I would even go out on a limb and say that Simmons has better passing skills than McCallum.

I do think people are overrating McCallum's PG skills as they relate to Joseph's but I think he'll be better at setting up the offense than Jimmer would be. Parker's role really is just to beat his man and force the rotation. The offense runs itself after than. McCallum can do that, whereas there are questions about Jimmer's handle and explosiveness. I definitely don't see Fredette starting at PG unless Parker and McCallum are out.

Bruno

07-28-2015, 08:45 AM

ceperez

07-28-2015, 08:47 AM

I do think people are overrating McCallum's PG skills as they relate to Joseph's but I think he'll be better at setting up the offense than Jimmer would be. Parker's role really is just to beat his man and force the rotation. The offense runs itself after than. McCallum can do that, whereas there are questions about Jimmer's handle and explosiveness. I definitely don't see Fredette starting at PG unless Parker and McCallum are out.

Cojo barely played in the playoffs. That's because Cojo's main purpose was to replace Parker when Parker was inactive. Mills is the spark-plug guy that come's in after Parker. I seriously doubt Mills plays alongside McCallum or Jimmer, that would be an extremely undersized back court. In the event Manu is also out, Mills partner would likely be Simmons. Which leads to this intriguing backup lineup:

Mills
Simmons
Anderson
Diaw
West

That's a lot of fire power.

ceperez

07-28-2015, 08:51 AM

I wouldn't definitively rejoice if I was a Jimmer fan because it's possible that Pincus has make a mistake.

First, before the Fredette signing there was a source reporting that Bonner was 50% guaranteed :
https://twitter.com/NBACapAnalyst/status/621866653979164672

Now, Pincus is saying that Bonner is fully non guaranteed and Fredette half-guaranted ($508K is half of his $1.05M salary).

I definitely can see Pincus having mixed Bonner and Fredette lines in his notes. It would also be consistent with report that Fredette contract was a training camp invite.

:downspin:

It makes sense to me that Bonner is ungurananteed. You really want to have Bonner in the first half of the season to get the new bigs familiar with the system. I just don't see him getting much playing time though once West and Boban are comfortable. West is a bigger spacing threat than Bonner will ever be.

Dex

07-28-2015, 09:07 AM

29 pages on a guy who can barely dribble. Crazy.

Not only that, but a guy who MAY be the 15th man on the team.

We have definitely reached the offseason doldrums. Hurry the fuck up, October!

playjimmer

07-28-2015, 09:37 AM

ceperez

07-28-2015, 10:48 AM

Now that there's indication that Jimmer is signed until January, does that also move him up in the rotation since he's a 4 year NBA veteran?

ChumpDumper

07-28-2015, 11:04 AM

NOT EVEN HALF AS GF AS MILLS ON BOTH ENDHalf as girlfriend on both end?

Strong debut.

Bruno

07-28-2015, 11:12 AM

It makes sense to me that Bonner is ungurananteed.

It could also make sense that Fredette is unguaranteed. At the end what matters is "what is" and not "what makes sense".

Given all the reports, I strongly thinks that Bonner deal is half guaranteed and that Fredette deal is fully unguaranteed.

Chinook

07-28-2015, 11:15 AM

It could also make sense that Fredette is unguaranteed. At the end what matters is "what is" and not "what makes sense".

Given all the reports, I strongly thinks that Bonner deal is half guaranteed and that Fredette deal is fully unguaranteed.

Mark Deeks seems to be in the process of updating his salaries. So I'm waiting to see what he says. He's very rarely wrong when it comes to his contracts.

benefactor

07-28-2015, 11:24 AM

Mark Deeks seems to be in the process of updating his salaries. So I'm waiting to see what he says. He's very rarely wrong when it comes to his contracts.
You can tweet him and ask him. He's pretty active on twitter and typically responds to salary questions.

Bruno

07-28-2015, 11:45 AM

Mark Deeks seems to be in the process of updating his salaries. So I'm waiting to see what he says. He's very rarely wrong when it comes to his contracts.

Yep, Eric Pincus is also doing a very nice job and deserves props for it. When there are hundreds of contracts to look at, the occasional mistake is just unavoidable .

Chinook

07-28-2015, 11:45 AM

You can tweet him and ask him. He's pretty active on twitter and typically responds to salary questions.

Thanks for the info :toast. I'll keep that in mind. Or, more realistically, I'll ask DPG21920 if he can reach out of Deeks on behalf of ST to get clarification on Bonner's and Fredette's contracts.

Chinook

07-28-2015, 11:49 AM

Yep, Eric Pincus is also doing a very nice job and deserves props for it. When there are hundreds of contracts to look at, the occasional mistake is just unavoidable .

Agreed, and it's very possible that Deeks won't have an answer yet. He seems like a guy who'd rather by right than early.

DPG21920

07-28-2015, 11:50 AM

I will tweet at Mark - although our last interaction was him calling me a dick :lol (wasn't trying to be just made a joke he was oddly sensitive too).

Chinook

07-28-2015, 12:10 PM

I will tweet at Mark - although our last interaction was him calling me a dick :lol (wasn't trying to be just made a joke he was oddly sensitive too).

Hopefully, you didn't cause too big of a disturbance.

DPG21920

07-28-2015, 12:13 PM

Hopefully, you didn't cause too big of a disturbance.

I could not imagine, but with his reaction (which was out of nowhere) I don't know. It was when he announced he was stepping down from Basketball Breakdown as the Editor in Chief because he didn't have the time with all of his other ventures.

I said something along the lines that BBD was doing well and he would be missed and asked if this meant that David Robinson would be removed from Spurs salaries on Shamsports and he called me a d*ck. Didn't think it was a bad thing, but obviously he was sensitive to it.

Chinook

07-28-2015, 12:15 PM

I could not imagine, but with his reaction (which was out of nowhere) I don't know. It was when he announced he was stepping down from Basketball Breakdown as the Editor in Chief because he didn't have the time with all of his other ventures.

I said something along the lines that BBD was doing well and he would be missed and asked if this meant that David Robinson would be removed from Spurs salaries on Shamsports and he called me a d*ck. Didn't think it was a bad thing, but obviously he was sensitive to it.

Sure he wasn't being punny back to you?

DPG21920

07-28-2015, 12:18 PM

Sure he wasn't being punny back to you?

Pretty sure. The back and forth stopped after that dick comment and I just apologized and left it alone.

JuneJive

07-28-2015, 12:18 PM

He has the same agent as David West, and Pop/RC are doing him a solid for the solid DW did for us. Sometimes it just comes down to shit like that. He had NO other NBA interest, and I honestly thing he's just auditioning for Europe.

Oh. It seems that we, the fans, tend to overblow the simplest behind the scenes events, such as this.

But, with this new info in light it looks like Jimmer is staying if he performs well during the camp.

jeebus

07-28-2015, 12:39 PM

This is the new Austin Daye thread

Spurtacular

07-28-2015, 04:14 PM

Simmons can play sf so I'm not sure why KA isn't in the discussion of who Jimmer can beat out. Of course in that scenario Simmons also has to beat out KA which he will.

Teams don't like to give up on their own first round picks when there's still hope. I don't expect KA to be going anywhere. Plus, KA is trending upwards....

Spurtacular

07-28-2015, 04:17 PM

Anderson is considerably better than Jimmer. Considerably. Only way Jimmer gets a spot over him would be if Pop thinks that a Mills, Fredette, Ginobili perimeter bench makes sense. It doesn't.

And you're basing this on Anderson's 2.2 ppg and 34.8 FG% last year? Not sure how you came to the conclusion of better let alone "considerably better."

Spurtacular

07-28-2015, 04:21 PM

625935855585103873

That's a big partial guarantee and it changes a lot the way to view Fredette training camp odds. Fredette is more than just a training camp invite. His odds at making the roster at the end of the training camp are really high because Spurs will save no money by cutting him at that moment. The only case where cutting him would makes sense would be if Spurs need a roster spot because a training camp invite has shined.

Fredette is basically guaranteed to be a Spurs until December 15th. At that moment Spurs could trade him away to save some luxury tax if he sucks.

Rejoice Jimmer fans, it looks like Spurs still believe in your guy quite heavily.

Good reporting.

Yea, some people have been putting forth the idea that Jimmer got a modest $50K guarantee and that he was merely "auditioning" for other team. Half a mil would seem to indicate intent to keep him.

What is Reggie Williams partial guarantee? Is it low like others have surmised?

Darkwaters

07-28-2015, 04:22 PM

Regarding rolling the dice, Steve Nash in the beginning of his career was more of a knock-down shooter than a playmaker. Nash wasn't great defensively, but he won like 2 MVPs. Nash in his first 4 years in the NBA average less than 9 points a game. So let's not sell Jimmer short because he can't defend.

First off, I said nothing about his defense in my post.

Second, the Steve Nash comparison is pretty terrible. He might not have been setting the world on fire early on, but Nash also didn't have serious questions of whether or not he was even an NBA player. Jimmer is distinctly different as the jury is very much out on whether or not he can consistently play at this level and if anybody really wants him even as their 15th man.

But since you raised it, we all know that Jimmer is a terrible defender. In fact, hes in a very small fraternity that includes the absolute worst current defensive NBA players. Steve Nash also had defensive problems, but was a wizard on offense that ran in a gimmick system that inflated stats and won a lot of (regular season) games. He was flashy and popular and that largely motivated those MVP's. Still, he was quite amazing and definitely deserves a HOF billet.

So if you're implying that Jimmer has even a tenth of Nash's potential then he better start by making this team - after all, he purportedly provides exactly what they're seeking: shooting. And if hes going to tailor his game after any greats named Steve I'd recommend Kerr over Nash. Because at this juncture he should really consider San Antonio as a great opportunity to get a good head start on his Spanish language skills. He might really need them in a couple of months.

Spurtacular

07-28-2015, 04:23 PM

Another thing, Pincus has Bonner as Non- Guaranteed as well -- that's interesting.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/san-antonio-spurs-team-salary/

I've figured that Bonner and the Spurs have a sort of a stay ready verbal understanding. I would not be surprised to see him start a season 'retired' and come in mid-season as an injury replacement.

That is interesting that his deal is non-guaranteed. It makes him more likely to be cut than most realize. Just wondering when the NBA became the NFL though...

Spurtacular

07-28-2015, 04:27 PM

My guess about Fredette is jut that Spurs think he is the best they can do in free agency to play a Gary Neal/Roger Mason role.

That might be optimistic given that Chip didn't even personally talk to Jimmer. But Pop may like what he gets and make something of it all the same.

Spurtacular

07-28-2015, 04:28 PM

:lol scrub whose shot needs fixing
:lol doing the agent a solid
:lol competing with Eddie

All you Jimmer haters can eat a D tbqh. Will bump this whence he earns a spot in the rotation. Feel free to bump and ridicule if I'm wrong. I can take it.

:lol I feel like this at times. But some of the doubts about Jimmer are legit. Some are definitely hating, too.

Darkwaters

07-28-2015, 04:29 PM

And you're basing this on Anderson's 2.2 ppg and 34.8 FG% last year? Not sure how you came to the conclusion of better let alone "considerably better."

Don't dig yourself a hole on this one. 18.8% from 3 doesn't excite anybody.

The reality is that Anderson is definitely a better prospect than Jimmer. Despite his very poor showing in his rookie campaign, hes still only got one season of adjustment time under his belt and is still only 21. He has a lot more potential to improve vis-a-vis Jimmer's situation. Plus hes big for a SF whereas Jimmer is very small for a SG. It's really not much of a conversation. But they're both just prospects at this point and neither has proven anything as an NBA player.

tholdren

07-28-2015, 04:45 PM

Spurs fo agrees w me. In your face

Nathan89

07-28-2015, 04:47 PM

Anderson is considerably better than Jimmer. Considerably. Only way Jimmer gets a spot over him would be if Pop thinks that a Mills, Fredette, Ginobili perimeter bench makes sense. It doesn't.

Simmons is better than Anderson imo. So if Simmons is in the conversation then I'm throwing KA in the conversation.

Spurtacular

07-28-2015, 04:48 PM

I wouldn't definitively rejoice if I was a Jimmer fan because it's possible that Pincus has make a mistake.

First, before the Fredette signing there was a source reporting that Bonner was 50% guaranteed :
https://twitter.com/NBACapAnalyst/status/621866653979164672

Now, Pincus is saying that Bonner is fully non guaranteed and Fredette half-guaranted ($508K is half of his $1.05M salary).

I definitely can see Pincus having mixed Bonner and Fredette lines in his notes. It would also be consistent with report that Fredette contract was a training camp invite.

:downspin:

It makes sense to me. I think at some point, the Spurs and Bonner came to a we want you if there's room but we need to be able to explore our options type of understanding.

Nathan89

07-28-2015, 04:53 PM

:lol scrub whose shot needs fixing
:lol doing the agent a solid
:lol competing with Eddie

All you Jimmer haters can eat a D tbqh. Will bump this whence he earns a spot in the rotation. Feel free to bump and ridicule if I'm wrong. I can take it.

Fucking Eddie. While people say Jimmer can only shoot that is actually true for Eddie. No defense and no dribbling ability. Sign him up!:lol

Spurtacular

07-28-2015, 04:53 PM

Now that there's indication that Jimmer is signed until January, does that also move him up in the rotation since he's a 4 year NBA veteran?

To me, this question is probably more pertinent than whether Jimmer will make the camp. But I've held off b/c of the ground swell of naysayers. In an offensive system, Jimmer can get it done. People saying otherwise don't know what the f their talking about. The question is can he play well enough at the defensive end of the floor to justify the minutes or can he play so great on the offensive end to overshadow whatever defensive woes.

Spurtacular

07-28-2015, 05:02 PM

Don't dig yourself a hole on this one. 18.8% from 3 doesn't excite anybody.

The reality is that Anderson is definitely a better prospect than Jimmer. Despite his very poor showing in his rookie campaign, hes still only got one season of adjustment time under his belt and is still only 21. He has a lot more potential to improve vis-a-vis Jimmer's situation. Plus hes big for a SF whereas Jimmer is very small for a SG. It's really not much of a conversation. But they're both just prospects at this point and neither has proven anything as an NBA player.

Yea, Jimmer had a terrible year shooting 3's last season (his signature shot); and he (38FG) still shot a better FG% than KA (34.8). And I don't buy that KA absolutely has more potential than Jimmer. I'd say they're actually in similar boats right now despite Jimmer having a few more years under his belt. If KA can play like he did in the summer, he's got a lot of potential. If Jimmer can play like he did in college or even his third year in the league in which he average 19 per 36, then he has a lot of potential as well. I'm not going to sell either player short at this point. My only point was it seems kind of stupid to be calling a player who had such an anemic season "considerably better" than another player.

Spurtacular

07-28-2015, 05:04 PM

Simmons is better than Anderson imo. So if Simmons is in the conversation then I'm throwing KA in the conversation.

Re: Cuts

IMO, Simmons and KA aren't in the convo.

Williams, Jimmer, Ray, Bonner are in the convo to varying degrees.

Nathan89

07-28-2015, 05:10 PM

Re: Cuts

IMO, Simmons and KA aren't in the convo.

Williams, Jimmer, Ray, Bonner are in the convo to varying degrees.

Some were adding Simmons to the conversation so I was just mentioning that KA should then also be a part of it.

Really if he out plays Ray by a significant amount then he should be good. Not expecting much from Williams.

Darkwaters

07-28-2015, 05:14 PM

Yea, Jimmer had a terrible year shooting 3's last season (his signature shot); and he (38FG) still shot a better FG% than KA (34.8). And I don't buy that KA absolutely has more potential than Jimmer. I'd say they're actually in similar boats right now despite Jimmer having a few more years under his belt. If KA can play like he did in the summer, he's got a lot of potential. If Jimmer can play like he did in college or even his third year in the league in which he average 19 per 36, then he has a lot of potential as well. I'm not going to sell either player short at this point. My only point was it seems kind of stupid to be calling a player who had such an anemic season "considerably better" than another player.

The difference is one anemic season versus four. Despite having had a lot more opportunities, Jimmer is still a big question mark. Also, Anderson, for all his shortcomings, is still only 21 and has a lot of basketball to play (and potentially a lot of growth). By comparison, Jimmer is now 26. Lastly, the Spurs invested a first rounder in Anderson and are likely to follow through on their investment. In Jimmer they have essentially nothing invested except at most a few hundred grand. This really isn't a debate. It's essentially prima facie.

Darkwaters

07-28-2015, 05:19 PM

A partial guarantee on both Bonner and Fredette would actually be a really solid strategy. Especially with those guarantees coming due in January. It gives the Spurs a nice stable of players to use right now and lets them get a nice long look at Jimmer Fredette. Also, it provides them some nice, easily waiveable options near the trade deadline. Those players can either be flipped to other teams in a trade and immediately waived (for cap savings) or can simply be waived by the Spurs to make roster space for one of the many potential buyout casualities that will be predicted around the league.

Spurtacular

07-28-2015, 05:21 PM

The difference is one anemic season versus four. Despite having had a lot more opportunities, Jimmer is still a big question mark. Also, Anderson, for all his shortcomings, is still only 21 and has a lot of basketball to play (and potentially a lot of growth). By comparison, Jimmer is now 26. Lastly, the Spurs invested a first rounder in Anderson and are likely to follow through on their investment. In Jimmer they have essentially nothing invested except at most a few hundred grand. This really isn't a debate. It's essentially prima facie.

I've said that the Spurs will almost unquestionably be going forward with KA this season. I've said that I'm cautiously optimistic about his potential. I just don't think it makes sense to be calling him way better than Jimmer at this point when we are all aware of the big question marks there and especially based on his really poor showing last year in his first and only season.

It's fair to call Jimmer a big question mark. I don't know that he has really had "a lot more opportunities." I've followed Jimmer; and he never really had a fair opportunity in Sacramento. His windows of opportunity only shrunk from there. This is Jimmer's first real chance if he gets it, imo. The good thing is that he's played just enough in his career that nothing's new. He knows what he needs to do. He knows what he needs to work on, etc.

AFBlue

07-28-2015, 05:52 PM

Re: Cuts

IMO, Simmons and KA aren't in the convo.

Williams, Jimmer, Ray, Bonner are in the convo to varying degrees.

I don't think Ray is in the "cuts" convo. This team doesn't shed guaranteed salary often, and they had a need to replace CoJo. All Jimmer has to do to make the squad is outplay Reggie Williams. All the rest can be kept without impacting Jimmer. The real question is minutes and role.

I personally think he can carve out a Belinelli role, though the team will likely want less minutes from him than they asked of Beli. I'm intrigued by the potential from Simmons and KA, but both are on a longer glide path developmentally than Jimmer. I could see that being the reasoning, along with Jimmer's superior shooting, that the team ultimately rolls with Jimmer in those Beli minutes over the other two. That is, if Jimmer proves he belongs.

monkeypunk

07-28-2015, 06:01 PM

I don't know that he has really had "a lot more opportunities." I've followed Jimmer; and he never really had a fair opportunity in Sacramento. His windows of opportunity only shrunk from there. This is Jimmer's first real chance if he gets it, imo. The good thing is that he's played just enough in his career that nothing's new. He knows what he needs to do. He knows what he needs to work on, etc.

Gotta ask cause it's weird. We keep hearing that Sacto players were freezing him out and he never got a fair shot anywhere else he landed.

Was it the cult thing that freaked the players out?

Was it the onslaught of rabid Mormon posters all about the jimmer that pissed off the players and the fanbase?

Was it that he can't defend anyone anywhere that prompted the anti jimmer backlash?

Were players jealous that jimmer can have a shitload of wives and then be god of his own universe when he dies? What was the actual deal here?

Gladney to see you

07-28-2015, 06:05 PM

I'll support him if he is on our team. He seems to be a good guy. Heck maybe, free throws are worth keeping him. I just think his D is too much to overcome.

Hoops Czar

07-28-2015, 06:10 PM

I'll support him if he is on our team. He seems to be a good guy. Heck maybe, free throws are worth keeping him. I just think his D is too much to overcome.

Can he shoot free throws wearing a blue blazer and Khakis because I don't see him beating out anybody in the top 13 of the rotation.

Gladney to see you

07-28-2015, 06:21 PM

Can he shoot free throws wearing a blue blazer and Khakis because I don't see him beating out anybody in the top 13 of the rotation.

Offense defense substitution at the end of games. If we (I) rip on him I have to give him respect for what he does well.

Darkwaters

07-28-2015, 06:24 PM

littlecoyotecoin

07-28-2015, 06:47 PM

Wow man. Pretty fucking bigoted.

Yeah, if we're allowed to poke fun of the Mormon religion up in here, what's next, serious religions like Scientology?!

Stop the insanity.

monkeypunk

07-28-2015, 06:50 PM

Gotta ask cause it's weird. We keep hearing that Sacto players were freezing him out and he never got a fair shot anywhere else he landed.

Was it the cult thing that freaked the players out?

Was it the onslaught of rabid Mormon posters all about the jimmer that pissed off the players and the fanbase?

Was it that he can't defend anyone anywhere that prompted the anti jimmer backlash?

Were players jealous that jimmer can have a shitload of wives and then be god of his own universe when he dies? What was the actual deal here?

Wow man. Pretty fucking bigoted.

It's actually kind of tongue in cheek but all based in logic.

All religions are cults to outside observers, with Mormonism being an exceptionally out there religion and can freak people out if they don't understand it - fact.
Jimmer fanatics are rabid, are for the most part Mormon and can post on the internet - fact.
Jimmer can't defend anyone anywhere - fact, fact, fact
Some Mormons can have a shitload of wives and in their religion, are given an entire universe of their own to be god in when they die - fact.

So, the question was did any of the above facts cause opinions to align against this kid?

littlecoyotecoin

07-28-2015, 06:57 PM

It's actually kind of tongue in cheek but all based in logic.

All religions are cults to outside observers, with Mormonism being an exceptionally out there religion and can freak people out if they don't understand it - fact.
Jimmer fanatics are rabid, are for the most part Mormon and can post on the internet - fact.
Jimmer can't defend anyone anywhere - fact, fact, fact
Some Mormons can have a shitload of wives and in their religion, are given an entire universe of their own to be god in when they die - fact.

So, the question was did any of the above facts cause opinions to align against this kid?

Can freak people out ESPECIALLY if they understand it.

BatManu20

07-28-2015, 07:14 PM

This thread is like Bonner. It just won't die, tbh.

Mugen

07-28-2015, 07:30 PM

This thread is like Bonner. It just won't die, tbh.

My dream is that it eclipses the Aldridge thread by opening night tbh.

ceperez

07-28-2015, 07:35 PM

My dream is that it eclipses the Aldridge thread by opening night tbh.

So if it does, does that mean then that best player in team (based on salary) is less popular than the scrub filling up the #15 slot?

AFBlue

07-28-2015, 08:34 PM

My dream is that it eclipses the Aldridge thread by opening night tbh.

You can count on me to bump for every training camp interview, pre-season highlight and any notable minutes he receives in the regular season should he get that far. Just doing my part tbqh.

Axegrinder

07-28-2015, 11:17 PM

https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=JN.d6weZaImOvfx%2b3vCWSugLw&pid=15.1&rs=1&c=1&qlt=95&w=224&h=117

Spurtacular

07-29-2015, 01:26 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J59R-HyjwM

Spurtacular

07-29-2015, 02:45 AM

I did the math...

Jimmer 2014-15: Minutes>20

6 Games
23:11 MPG
11 PPG
17.1 PP36
22-35 FG (62.8)
6-17 3FG (35.2)
16-16 FT (100.0)
3.0 Asts
2.0 TOs
0.5 Stls
0.3 Blks
+38 (+/-)

Jimmer 2013-14: Minutes>20

3 Games
26:15 MPG
16.7 PPG
22.9 PP36
20-38 FG (52.6)
8-16 3FG (50.0)
2-2 FT (100.0)
2.7 Asts
1.7 TOs
1.0 Stls
0.0 Blks
+18 (+/-)

Jimmer 2012-13: Minutes>20

13 Games
23:05 MPG
13.4 PPG
20.9 PP36
63-134 FG (47.0)
24-48 3FG (50.0)
23-28 FT (82.1)
2.7 Asts
0.9 TOs
1.2 Stls
0.0 Blks
+33 (+/-)

Jimmer 2011-12: Minutes>20

30 Games
24:58 MPG
10.5 PPG
15.2 PP36
117-291 FG (40.2)
52-138 3FG (37.7)
30-35 FT (85.6)
2.3 Asts
1.5 TOs
0.8 Stls
0.1 Blks
-160 (+/-)

Nathan89

07-29-2015, 02:57 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J59R-HyjwM

Very impressive! Many things that Eddie can't do shown in this video.

ceperez

07-29-2015, 05:54 AM

Very impressive! Many things that Eddie can't do shown in this video.

Impressive!!! An absolute steal!!!

Jimmer and Patty both in the game at the same time are going to rain down threes by the boat load!!!

Scenario: Down by 15 with 2 minutes to go, substitute in the team:

Mills
Fredette
Green
West
Bonner

to waive the flag in surrender....

only to see ....

Mills 3pts
Mills 3pts
Fredette 3pts
Bonner 3 pts
Green 3pts
Mills 3pts
Fredette 3pts
Fredette 3 pts
Mills 3pts
Fredette 3pts
Mills 3pts

Win by 10 points!! 11 seconds or less per possession. Hack-a-anybody strategy.

Gladney to see you

07-29-2015, 06:51 AM

Should the thread title be changed again?:toast

dweaver99027

07-29-2015, 07:00 AM

Lol, playing Mills and Jimmer together will net us a defensive rating of 115... Garbage time only.

Seventyniner

07-29-2015, 08:17 AM

Can freak people out ESPECIALLY if they understand it.

This.

Gladney to see you

07-29-2015, 08:35 AM

Lol, playing Mills and Jimmer together will net us a defensive rating of 115... Garbage time only.

Jimmer really is a poor man's Mills.

benefactor

07-29-2015, 09:20 AM

Jimmer really is a poor man's Mills.
Homeless man's version tbh

Chinook

07-29-2015, 09:42 AM

Homeless man's version tbh

"But at least he can dribble unlike Green." - hater

dweaver99027

07-29-2015, 09:48 AM

Jimmer has shown he's an above average scorer when given offensive freedom in his first 2 years in the league. It remains to be seen whether his deficiencies in all other aspects matter more or less in a very specific team system like the Spurs'.

ceperez

07-29-2015, 10:27 AM

"But at least he can dribble unlike Green." - hater

Come training camp, Spurs will put Green, Leonard and Simmons on him. Ff he manages to keep the ball then he likely will stick with the Spurs.

Spurtacular

07-29-2015, 04:09 PM

Come training camp, Spurs will put Green, Leonard and Simmons on him. Ff he manages to keep the ball then he likely will stick with the Spurs.

No saying KL's defense hasn't evolved; but Jimmer owned KL in college whenever they put him on him. Jimmer lit up Green only last season. And Simmons ain't on that list, tbh.

Gladney to see you

07-29-2015, 04:38 PM

No saying KL's defense hasn't evolved; but Jimmer owned KL in college whenever they put him on him. Jimmer lit up Green only last season. And Simmons ain't on that list, tbh.

Is there any video of that?

Spurtacular

07-29-2015, 04:42 PM

Is there any video of that?

Go watch BYU/SDSU hihglights. You won't find much b/c Fischer used KL as a 3rd or 4th or sometimes 5th, 6th or 7th option. But Jimmer would score on him once or twice and Fischer wouldn't have much patience to keep with it. SDSU actually considered Malcolm Thomas, a 6'9" forward with long arms and good lateral quickness to be their best Jimmer defender.

Gladney to see you

07-29-2015, 06:53 PM

Go watch BYU/SDSU hihglights. You won't find much b/c Fischer used KL as a 3rd or 4th or sometimes 5th, 6th or 7th option. But Jimmer would score on him once or twice and Fischer wouldn't have much patience to keep with it. SDSU actually considered Malcolm Thomas, a 6'9" forward with long arms and good lateral quickness to be their best Jimmer defender.

Thanks. I know jimmer is playing against way better players and won't be as good, but it seems he is also lacking the same confidence. The Aztecs had a pretty athletic and long team and he didn't care. He definitely lost some swagger somewhere. Maybe it was just coming in to the league and realizing he was human.

Spurtacular

07-29-2015, 07:19 PM

Thanks. I know jimmer is playing against way better players and won't be as good, but it seems he is also lacking the same confidence. The Aztecs had a pretty athletic and long team and he didn't care. He definitely lost some swagger somewhere. Maybe it was just coming in to the league and realizing he was human.

The Kings owners were in danger of losing the team and drafted (traded for) Jimmer as a last ditch ploy. Their coaches then didn't know how to use a player like Jimmer who does great with high screens (and regular minutes). Jimmer's stats per 36 are somewhat remarkable given the dysfunctional systems that he was in.

I don't think Jimmer can be used quite the same as when he was in college due to the shorter shot clock and the different systems from college to the pros. But there are things can and should be incorporated. The high screen that I mentioned is one of them. When you have a guy who is a threat to make a three once he hits 28 feet, then you can use that high screen and spread the floor quicker. It doesn't mean you do it every possession; but the Kings/Pelicans did not do that on any regular basis whatsoever. Nor did the Kings/Pelicans institute wrinkles for Jimmer to come off a series of screens like smart teams do when they have great shooters.

Spurtacular

08-01-2015, 02:46 AM

Final two paragraphs of Project Spurs Article (Click For Link): (http://projectspurs.com/2015-articles/how-jimmer-fredette-could-fit-in-with-the-spurs.html)

Fredette is a career 38.1 percent three-point shooter and playing with the Spurs would mean he would get a lot more clean looks than he did with the Pelicans, as well as spot-ups, which every shooter prefers to creating for themselves. This is also a good opportunity for Fredette to prove to people that he was more than a college all-star turned washout. If he can contribute any sort of meaningful minutes, then he finds some vindication for all the hate he’s gotten over his short career.

It’s not his fault the Kings don’t know what they’re doing and the Bulls already had their squad, and that the Pelicans have too many undersized guards!

DenialTwist

08-01-2015, 04:09 AM

I'm kind of surprised the Utah Jazz were never interested in Jimmer before? He's like a hometown hero there. He's popular and alot of people are still rooting for him to make his mark in the NBA.

Spurtacular

08-01-2015, 04:28 AM

I'm kind of surprised the Utah Jazz were never interested in Jimmer before? He's like a hometown hero there. He's popular and alot of people are still rooting for him to make his mark in the NBA.

I followed it at the time. The Jazz were most certainly not going to draft Jimmer if he fell to their pick at 12. I don't recall if it was the GM or whomever (really multiple people) who acted like he was the smartest guy in the room and that he knows so much better. He was even blatantly dick-ish and throwing it in the fans faces too, saying junk like Jimmer wasn't a good fit (when that was not at all the case). As a lifelong Jazz fan, that's when I realized that the post Larry Miller era had ushered in d-bags; and I sort of started zoning them out (but not completely cos I like Hayward).

DenialTwist

08-01-2015, 06:31 AM

I followed it at the time. The Jazz were most certainly not going to draft Jimmer if he fell to their pick at 12. I don't recall if it was the GM or whomever (really multiple people) who acted like he was the smartest guy in the room and that he knows so much better. He was even blatantly dick-ish and throwing it in the fans faces too, saying junk like Jimmer wasn't a good fit (when that was not at all the case). As a lifelong Jazz fan, that's when I realized that the post Larry Miller era had ushered in d-bags; and I sort of started zoning them out (but not completely cos I like Hayward).

Oh, I didn't know this happened. Thanks for that info.
Jimmer just hasn't had the chance to show off his skill set in the environment he has been put in with the Kings, Bulls and Pelicans. All three weren't good systems for him. I hope he makes the spurs team after training camp. I just have a good feeling the spurs will maximize his talent more than ever before.

Maddog

08-01-2015, 07:53 AM

I followed it at the time. The Jazz were most certainly not going to draft Jimmer if he fell to their pick at 12. I don't recall if it was the GM or whomever (really multiple people) who acted like he was the smartest guy in the room and that he knows so much better. He was even blatantly dick-ish and throwing it in the fans faces too, saying junk like Jimmer wasn't a good fit (when that was not at all the case). As a lifelong Jazz fan, that's when I realized that the post Larry Miller era had ushered in d-bags; and I sort of started zoning them out (but not completely cos I like Hayward).

If I was the Jazz- I would not have considered him either. The expectations/attention would have been excessive and probably not benefited either party other than possibly ticket sales and jerseys...

Gladney to see you

08-01-2015, 08:13 AM

I think this is part of what hurts him. A lot of teams just didn't want to deal with it. That being said, if he would have played well he wouldn't be in the situation he is today. Struggling with no guarantee to make the last spot on one of the best teams ever. His chances are less than 10% in my view.

Spurtacular

08-01-2015, 08:43 AM

I think Jimmer's odds of making the team are great assuming that Pop doesn't have some special affinity for Reggie Williams. Some are throwing out the idea of the Spurs not filling the fifteenth spot to start the season like they've done in the past. I don't think that's their intention though. I think they're hopeful that Jimmer will show them something. Some have thrown out the idea of Jimmer filling the Belli role. Others note a need for another shooter and guard for when Parker and Ginobili go on the shelf.

dweaver99027

08-01-2015, 08:48 AM

If his 3s and 2s fall at a good clip, he can't be any worse than Neal, except maybe clutchness.

Spurtacular

08-01-2015, 08:56 AM

If his 3s and 2s fall at a good clip, he can't be any worse than Neal, except maybe clutchness.

I liked Neal; but apparently a lot of Spurs fans weren't high on him. From a purely numbers standpoint, Jimmer should do better, imo.

boutons_deux

08-01-2015, 09:41 AM

Neal hit a huge 3G winner vs Lakers, so now he's eternally a clutch Spur?

dweaver99027

08-01-2015, 09:45 AM

He also won us the Memphis game in 2011 and went ham against the Heat in a Finals game.

littlecoyotecoin

08-01-2015, 10:01 AM

The Kings owners were in danger of losing the team and drafted (traded for) Jimmer as a last ditch ploy. Their coaches then didn't know how to use a player like Jimmer who does great with high screens (and regular minutes). Jimmer's stats per 36 are somewhat remarkable given the dysfunctional systems that he was in.

I don't think Jimmer can be used quite the same as when he was in college due to the shorter shot clock and the different systems from college to the pros. But there are things can and should be incorporated. The high screen that I mentioned is one of them. When you have a guy who is a threat to make a three once he hits 28 feet, then you can use that high screen and spread the floor quicker. It doesn't mean you do it every possession; but the Kings/Pelicans did not do that on any regular basis whatsoever. Nor did the Kings/Pelicans institute wrinkles for Jimmer to come off a series of screens like smart teams do when they have great shooters.

So, in order to be effective offensively, he has to have lots of minutes. You can't play him situationally, and expect him to have the same sort of success. This is your admission. So, Pop must play his worst defender at two guard for long stretches. I don't know, but that sounds a little bit like a non-starter.

Spurtacular

08-01-2015, 11:02 AM

littlecoyotecoin

08-01-2015, 11:10 AM

I didn't say "lots of minutes." I said regular minutes. And this isn't abnormal. Most players do much better with regular minutes. And you know what sh*tty defensive player gets lots of minutes btw? Parker. Are you arguing that the Spurs should not play Parker?

Parker has been able to defend his position the majority of his career. Again, you're in bad shape when trying to argue Jimmer's defensive prowess as "better than Parker". He is not better than Parker, defensively. Better than Parker recently? Probably, but that's not a good case for Jimmer.

I anticipated that you would say you didn't say a lot but "regular". So, if he gets a regular 3-5 minutes a game, I guess you're gonna be good with that, cuz, you know, it's regular.

ceperez

08-01-2015, 11:56 AM

So, in order to be effective offensively, he has to have lots of minutes. You can't play him situationally, and expect him to have the same sort of success. This is your admission. So, Pop must play his worst defender at two guard for long stretches. I don't know, but that sounds a little bit like a non-starter.

I don't think Jimmer should move over to the SG position. Spurs have survived for so many years with Parker at PG, they can also survive with Jimmer at PG.

Just basing my opinions on what I've seen in the videos, I think Jimmer is a better and more creative ball handler and passer than McCallum. He also has a better sense of spacing. Obviously he's a better shooter than McCallum. Surprisingly, Fredette in 1/2 an inch taller than McCallum. What McCallum has is the athleticism, whether that trumps all the other plusses Jimmer has is an open question.

We'll just have to see both of them play, but right now, I'm finally leaning towards Fredette because the Spurs work better with skilled players over athletic players.

lmbebo

08-01-2015, 12:03 PM

McCallum is more of a natural PG. Jimmer is a SG in a PG body

tbdog

08-01-2015, 12:33 PM

McCallum is more of a natural PG. Jimmer is a SG in a PG body

With Manu/Diaw and possibly Anderson in the second unit, this is why Jimmer is best suited to play the backup point if Mills goes down. He can fill right in for Mills and play the same role on the offense. This is when McCallum will struggle. I want to ball in Manu and Diaw hands to organise the offence, and he isn't providing enough spacing to stand in the corner.

Spurtacular

08-01-2015, 12:42 PM

Parker has been able to defend his position the majority of his career. Again, you're in bad shape when trying to argue Jimmer's defensive prowess as "better than Parker". He is not better than Parker, defensively. Better than Parker recently? Probably, but that's not a good case for Jimmer.

I anticipated that you would say you didn't say a lot but "regular". So, if he gets a regular 3-5 minutes a game, I guess you're gonna be good with that, cuz, you know, it's regular.

Even 3-5 mins a game is more fluid than a big run of DNPs, yes. I don't know who's gonna be "good with that" per say. But Jimmer can certainly work with that. If he comes in and hits a couple bombs, he can make his own case for more time. Regular minutes create stability; this is pretty fundamental to basketball. And when the lowly Kings weren't giving their 10th overall pick regular minutes let alone quality minutes, that was a tell about their organization.

Spurtacular

08-01-2015, 12:58 PM

I don't think Jimmer should move over to the SG position. Spurs have survived for so many years with Parker at PG, they can also survive with Jimmer at PG.

Just basing my opinions on what I've seen in the videos, I think Jimmer is a better and more creative ball handler and passer than McCallum. He also has a better sense of spacing. Obviously he's a better shooter than McCallum. Surprisingly, Fredette in 1/2 an inch taller than McCallum. What McCallum has is the athleticism, whether that trumps all the other plusses Jimmer has is an open question.

We'll just have to see both of them play, but right now, I'm finally leaning towards Fredette because the Spurs work better with skilled players over athletic players.

When Manu and Mills play together; Mills is technically PG and Manu is SG. But in reality, it's often reversed. If Jimmer is playing with Green, then yea you want him at PG. Without laboriously going over every situation, I think it just depends on who the the backcourt mate is....

As for McCallum, the thing I like about him is his build. He seems like he can dribble the ball to offensive start points better than Jimmer because of that. And he can probably finish at the rim better. And statistically, Ray is only very marginally better than Jimmer. Of course, people don't talk about "but Ray can't defend." It's just easy to pick on the "slow white guy," tbh.

Jimmer's a far better shooter. He's a better at spacing the floor. He's better in pick n' roll. I would argue Jimmer's even the better passer frankly. He's a very under-rated passer.

Spurtacular

08-01-2015, 01:03 PM

With Manu/Diaw and possibly Anderson in the second unit, this is why Jimmer is best suited to play the backup point if Mills goes down. He can fill right in for Mills and play the same role on the offense. This is when McCallum will struggle. I want to ball in Manu and Diaw hands to organise the offence, and he isn't providing enough spacing to stand in the corner.

Jimmer is basically a Mills type player; and McCallum is basically a CoJo player. How many people were arguing that CoJo should be ahead of Mills? Not many. I did understand the argument that CoJo should start when TP was down because Mills plays better with Manu in the second unit (much better). But Jimmer is actually a better ball handler than Mills and has traditionally flourished in his starts; so, Spurs fans may be pleasantly surprised for whenever Jimmer may get a spot start.

Darius Bieber

08-01-2015, 01:06 PM

33+ pages on someone who isn't even gonna be on the opening day roster. :lol

ceperez

08-01-2015, 01:22 PM

When Manu and Mills play together; Mills is technically PG and Manu is SG. But in reality, it's often reversed. If Jimmer is playing with Green, then yea you want him at PG. Without laboriously going over every situation, I think it just depends on who the the backcourt mate is....

As for McCallum, the thing I like about him is his build. He seems like he can dribble the ball to offensive start points better than Jimmer because of that. And he can probably finish at the rim better. And statistically, Ray is only very marginally better than Jimmer. Of course, people don't talk about "but Ray can't defend." It's just easy to pick on the "slow white guy," tbh.

Jimmer's a far better shooter. He's a better at spacing the floor. He's better in pick n' roll. I would argue Jimmer's even the better passer frankly. He's a very under-rated passer.

Just based on what I've seen in the videos, I will have to agree with you here.

McCallum is likely a better defender, but I can't say for sure how much worse Jimmer is worse in defense. I also don't think McCallum would be a better defender than Joseph, which sadly appears to be a pretty low bar. I would guess that McCallum is just slightly better than Parker in defense.

ceperez

08-01-2015, 01:27 PM

Jimmer is basically a Mills type player; and McCallum is basically a CoJo player. How many people were arguing that CoJo should be ahead of Mills? Not many. I did understand the argument that CoJo should start when TP was down because Mills plays better with Manu in the second unit (much better). But Jimmer is actually a better ball handler than Mills and has traditionally flourished in his starts; so, Spurs fans may be pleasantly surprised for whenever Jimmer may get a spot start.

He's a Mills type player because he's a shoot first point guard? Isn't Parker also a shoot first point guard?

I'm a bit baffled why people keep slotting Jimmer as a SG. I understand Mills as a SG because he just doesn't orchestrate the offense well enough. It's not that he can't dribble, but I think his size makes it problematic to run the offense.

Jimmer is as big as either McCallum or Parker, so he should do fine as a PG.

I keep being reminded of Beno Udrih. Spurs hated it when he was destroyed in the championship series against Detroit, but when you watch him play with Memphis, he does seem to be a serviceable point guard. I would say Jimmer is in the same class as Beno in terms of ball handling skills. He doesn't have the speed like Mills or Parker to speed past a larger defender but, considering that he'll be out there with the 2nd unit, his PG skills aren;t going to be too much or a problem. Besides, the 2nd unit has guys like Manu, Anderson and Diaw, all guys that can take the ball if ever there's too much back court pressure.

It just seems to me that Jimmer's major liabilities (1) Defense and (2) Bringing the ball up can all be hidden by the kind of players the Spurs have.

What I see being exposed in a championship context is the poor shooting percentages of a guy like McCallum. God forbid they treat him like Tony Allen and dare him to shoot when open.

Spurtacular

08-01-2015, 01:38 PM

Just based on what I've seen in the videos, I will have to agree with you here.

McCallum is likely a better defender, but I can't say for sure how much worse Jimmer is worse in defense. I also don't think McCallum would be a better defender than Joseph, which sadly appears to be a pretty low bar. I would guess that McCallum is just slightly better than Parker in defense.

Honestly, Jimmer was maybe the worst defender I'd seen when he came into the league. But that's not a full indictment on him. At BYU, he played with a great defensive backcourt mate, Jackson Emery, and they wanted him to be an offensive juggernaut; so, he was never had to work on defense. He only ever played pre-safety out there. Rajon Rondo found himself in a similar predicament with the Mavs; and it ultimately cost him his cache as a top five to seven PG. He had been playing with the great defender Avery Bradley for a few years and when he suddenly was stuck with Monta Ellis who is not a good defender, he was exposed; and his defensive skills had greatly diminished. Defense is something you have to work on just like offense (maybe not as much is all).

But Jimmer's one v. one defense is vastly improved. He stays in front of most PGs most of the time now (something he's not getting credit for in cyber space and the media). He still needs to improve on rotations and angles though.

The fact that McCallum is only a slightly better defender statistically than Jimmer is not good. Because when you're not a great shooter, you're suppose to work on things like defense to create some sort of other value. I think McCallum's defensive numbers are more troubling than Jimmer's at this point.

ceperez

08-01-2015, 01:46 PM

Honestly, Jimmer was maybe the worst defender I'd seen when he came into the league. But that's not a full indictment on him. At BYU, he played with a great defensive backcourt mate, Jackson Emery, and they wanted him to be an offensive juggernaut; so, he was never had to work on defense. He only ever played pre-safety out there. Rajon Rondo found himself in a similar predicament with the Mavs; and it ultimately cost him his cache as a top five to seven PG. He had been playing with the great defender Avery Bradley for a few years and when he suddenly was stuck with Monta Ellis who is not a good defender, he was exposed; and his defensive skills had greatly diminished. Defense is something you have to work on just like offense (maybe not as much is all).

But Jimmer's one v. one defense is vastly improved. He stays in front of most PGs most of the time now (something he's not getting credit for in cyber space and the media). He still needs to improve on rotations and angles though.

The fact that McCallum is only a slightly better defender statistically than Jimmer is not good. Because when you're not a great shooter, you're suppose to work on things like defense to create some sort of other value. I think McCallum's defensive numbers are more troubling than Jimmer's at this point.

I got the same intuition about McCallum's defense. I didn't look at the numbers, but considering his size and lack of wingspan, I would consider it average at best.

In fact, I'm willing to go out on the limb and say that its not noticeably better than Parker's. In fact, maybe Parker is a better defensive player, but that's still a low bar!

Spurtacular

08-01-2015, 01:57 PM

He's a Mills type player because he's a shoot first point guard? Isn't Parker also a shoot first point guard?

I'm a bit baffled why people keep slotting Jimmer as a SG. I understand Mills as a SG because he just doesn't orchestrate the offense well enough. It's not that he can't dribble, but I think his size makes it problematic to run the offense.

Jimmer is as big as either McCallum or Parker, so he should do fine as a PG.

I keep being reminded of Beno Udrih. Spurs hated it when he was destroyed in the championship series against Detroit, but when you watch him play with Memphis, he does seem to be a serviceable point guard. I would say Jimmer is in the same class as Beno in terms of ball handling skills. He doesn't have the speed like Mills or Parker to speed past a larger defender but, considering that he'll be out there with the 2nd unit, his PG skills aren;t going to be too much or a problem. Besides, the 2nd unit has guys like Manu, Anderson and Diaw, all guys that can take the ball if ever there's too much back court pressure.

It just seems to me that Jimmer's major liabilities (1) Defense and (2) Bringing the ball up can all be hidden by the kind of players the Spurs have.

What I see being exposed in a championship context is the poor shooting percentages of a guy like McCallum. God forbid they treat him like Tony Allen and dare him to shoot when open.

Jimmer is a guy who has traditionally needed the ball in his hands to be most effective as a scorer. That's why he was a PG at BYU. He could get two to five touches per possession with the extended shot clock until he found a shot for himself or a teammate that he liked. Of course, in the NBA, that system (even an abridged system) is rarely something that a rookie can't expect to play in. So, naturally there was going to be an adjustment period. Jimmer had to learn how to drive and kick more as a PG and learn how to come off of screens better as an SG. The latter, his dysfunctional teams didn't really do much of a job of working on getting him shots off of screens at all. Instead, it was mostly go stand in a corner and drift higher on PG drives.That's pretty sad when you think about it. The Magic and the Clippers didn't do that with Reddick. The Pacers certainly didn't do that with Reggie Miller. Now, I'm not saying Jimmer is on their level on coming off screens; but maybe he could be by now if his teams had worked on him with that. The Spurs offense isn't exactly based on excessive screens for the SG as much as it is spacing; but even they'll do more of that for Green than Jimmer's teams did for him.

I think that Jimmer's 3's will rise above 40 this year. He was just in a slump last season from deep. It looked like he was just aiming the ball more than shooting with confidence from three (ironically he looked great on his tear drops). I think Jimmer's threes were more rushed last year too. He'll be in a make the extra pass system that the Pels frankly don't have. So, he'll be taking quality threes or make the next pass rather than trying to do too much.

Spurtacular

08-01-2015, 02:00 PM

I got the same intuition about McCallum's defense. I didn't look at the numbers, but considering his size and lack of wingspan, I would consider it average at best.

In fact, I'm willing to go out on the limb and say that its not noticeably better than Parker's. In fact, maybe Parker is a better defensive player, but that's still a low bar!

McCallum did play on a bad defensive team though. So, maybe there's hope that his defense sharply improves. I have my doubts though.

tbdog

08-01-2015, 02:07 PM

Spurtacular

08-01-2015, 02:23 PM

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24720919/bruce-bowen-blames-rockets-coaching-staff-for-james-hardens-defense

Bowen: Defense is something you have to practice very day, especially rotations. We went over our rotations every day in all my eight years in San Antonio.

Perhaps, some hope for McCallum and Fredette.

ceperez

08-01-2015, 02:47 PM

Just to add, I don't believe Mills is a good defender at all. He really struggles hard to get around the picks. He is very small and light and get's bullied by a lot of pg's out there. However, he can be a pest if the opposition takes him lightly. Stealing inbound passes, full court press, things like that. In other words, Mills is good when it comes to regular season but his weakeness becomes obvious in the playoffs when the game becomes more half court offense. Fredette doesn't do the full court or half court defense very well (from what I have seen). So if he isn't shooting well, he wont get a run.

In defense of Mills, his defense is really kind of chaotic. He doesn't have the size to defend straight up, so he's out there pestering the opponent looking for him to make just a small mistake. I guess he tries to make best use of his quickness. It isn't great and he's out there gambling a lot. However, they've been plenty of occasions where he got lucky in the backcourt and made the opponent pay big time!

Gladney to see you

08-01-2015, 03:42 PM

With all these old guys and bad defender, how do we play great defense?

Spurtacular

08-01-2015, 08:36 PM

With all these old guys and bad defender, how do we play great defense?

Spurs were 3rd in Opp pts per game last year and 2nd in defensive rating last year. Jimmer and Ray will have to play in the defensive scheme or they'll find themselves in street clothes more often than not.

ceperez

08-01-2015, 09:25 PM

Spurs were 3rd in Opp pts per game last year and 2nd in defensive rating last year. Jimmer and Ray will have to play in the defensive scheme or they'll find themselves in street clothes more often than not.

They'll have a lot of opportunity to play with the old big 3 taking a lot of time off this season.

I wouldn't even be surprised if both Jimmer and Ray are the two guys in suits most of the time.

The three players most likely to be in suites are Jimmer, Ray and Bonner. Boban you need for backup, Simmons you need to for defensive duties.

Spurtacular

08-02-2015, 07:50 AM

Some have argued that this will be Jimmer in the upcoming season...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWHakv5DBgY

ceperez

08-02-2015, 08:00 AM

Some have argued that this will be Jimmer in the upcoming season...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWHakv5DBgY

I wonder if Manu should have retired and the Spurs could have kept Belinelli.

I guess not, Beli got $6.3 per season with the Kings.

Spurtacular

08-02-2015, 08:10 AM

I wonder if Manu should have retired and the Spurs could have kept Belinelli.

I guess not, Beli got $6.3 per season with the Kings.

Manu took 2.5 I think. I don't think Beli was gonna give em that type of hometown discount. And even an old Manu is still a better player than Beli is he not? He creates for other players. Beli is just a better version of Gary Neal.

ceperez

08-02-2015, 01:03 PM

Manu took 2.5 I think. I don't think Beli was gonna give em that type of hometown discount. And even an old Manu is still a better player than Beli is he not? He creates for other players. Beli is just a better version of Gary Neal.

Just speculating here.

But it is hard to tell if Manu is on his lasts legs. I just hated it in 2013 that he was making a ton of turnovers. I tend to forget if he made a lot of errors in 2014. So many what-ifs about that 2013 series, what if Pop kept Duncan in the game. What if Leonard made his free throws. What if Manu played a more controlled game. Enough to drive you mad, Spurs were totally devastated for good reason.

Also, you never know if Belineli would have taken a discount to stay with the Spurs.

FkLA

08-02-2015, 01:08 PM

Belly was not better than Gary 'balls of steel' Neal.

RD2191

08-02-2015, 01:16 PM

Spurtacular I'm going to fuck you up if you keep this Jimmer shtick going.

Spurtacular

08-02-2015, 05:04 PM

Spurtacular I'm going to fuck you up if you keep this Jimmer shtick going.

http://chicago.barstoolsports.com/files/2013/09/internet-tough-guy.jpg

Spurtacular

08-02-2015, 05:07 PM

Belly was not better than Gary 'balls of steel' Neal.

Statistically about the same; maybe, a slight edge to Belli.

RD2191

08-02-2015, 05:11 PM

Keep it up queer.

dweaver99027

08-02-2015, 05:21 PM

Solid take, R2D2.

Spurtacular

08-02-2015, 08:28 PM

http://airalamo.com/2015/07/25/spurs-training-camp-battle-to-watch-jimmer-fredette-vs-jonathon-simmons/

Not a very well written article; but it raises the point of Jimmer vs. Simmons for perhaps that 13th dress spot.

8FOR!3

08-02-2015, 09:23 PM

Spurtacular

08-02-2015, 09:29 PM

PG - Parker; Mills; McCallum; Fredette
SG - Green; Ginobili; Simmons
SF - Leonard; Anderson
PF - Aldridge; West
C - Duncan; Diaw; Bobo; Bonner

If I'm not missing anything, why not just keep the 15 we have? I don't see why it's Simmons vs. Jimmer. Both players could be beneficial for the team but neither are similar or the same position. Jimmer's a 1-2 and Simmons is a 2-3.

The most popular thinking on here as of now is that Simmons and Jimmer do make the 15. But only 13 can dress. This article throws out the possibility of Simmons spending some time in the d-league rather than spend time in a suit. I know that's probably not going to be a popular notion for posters here; but it's a possibility whether Jimmer makes the squad or not.