Jimmer Fredette to the Spurs (Update: Mostly Non-Guaranteed Training Camp Deal)

[cd98]

Actually, most people thought he was great pickup for very obvious reasons...like him having a high enough ceiling to be a rotation player.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193057

Anything else you'd like to throw against the wall to see if it will stick?

Mills is better than Fredette, I agree. I do think they are similar though. And Jimmer isn't slow per se, he just doesn't have elite speed like Mills and while he seems taller than Mills, he's not tall enough to get his shot up with ease or to allow him to cover space on defense. But shooting-wise, if he is open, he can be a weapon and teams will only double off him to their peril. The question is whether there is a line up that can help him on defense such that he can get consistent minutes. I'm not sure there is, but given how much rest Pop will give his backcourt this season, I think we'll see Jimmer more than you think. Plus Pop likes players like Jimmer, humble and hard working. He'll give Jimmer a legit shot.

[Gladney to see you]

Looked up his shuttle time before the draft (because it is the summer and I'm board) and he had the 3rd fastest time. That means he should be able to move laterally quickly so maybe, he just doesn't give a flying hoot about the D.

[Spurtacular]

Actually, most people thought he was great pickup for very obvious reasons...like him having a high enough ceiling to be a rotation player.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=193057

Anything else you'd like to throw against the wall to see if it will stick?

Your link defies my theory. But it doesn't hurt my case / help your case.

Look at the general positivity for picking up a scrub who shot 41 FG and who had virtually the same defensive rating as Jimmer despite playing on a 3rd and 7th ranked defense. Meanwhile, Jimmer had played on a team that finished dead last in defense both years. It shows that it's trendy to hate Jimmer. It was never en vogue to hate on Patty.

You're sorely mistaken if you think Jimmer can't be a rotation player. Mills didn't have anything that screamed rotation player more than Jimmer, then.

[Spurtacular]

Mills is better than Fredette, I agree. I do think they are similar though. And Jimmer isn't slow per se, he just doesn't have elite speed like Mills and while he seems taller than Mills, he's not tall enough to get his shot up with ease or to allow him to cover space on defense. But shooting-wise, if he is open, he can be a weapon and teams will only double off him to their peril. The question is whether there is a line up that can help him on defense such that he can get consistent minutes. I'm not sure there is, but given how much rest Pop will give his backcourt this season, I think we'll see Jimmer more than you think. Plus Pop likes players like Jimmer, humble and hard working. He'll give Jimmer a legit shot.

Just to nitpick...Mills doesn't have elite speed. I do like his motor and quickness and urgency though. Guy brings a lot of intangibles as well. Jimmer could learn from that.

[Spurtacular]

Who finalizes deals like this for a guy like Jimmer. Does Coach get asked?

At one point after the signing, Jimmer said he had not spoken yet to Pop. That's not so unusual for a later signing. My assumption would be that Pop did sign off on the signing though.

[cd98]

Just to nitpick...Mills doesn't have elite speed. I do like his motor and quickness and urgency though. Guy brings a lot of intangibles as well. Jimmer could learn from that.

See, I disagree. Patty Mills is very quick. That's why he is a more deadly shooter than Jimmer...he can get his shot off more easily. If Patty was slow, he'd be on the fringe like Jimmer. Patty is as good a shooter as Jimmer.

[Spurtacular]

See, I disagree. Patty Mills is very quick. That's why he is a more deadly shooter than Jimmer...he can get his shot off more easily. If Patty was slow, he'd be on the fringe like Jimmer. Patty is as good a shooter as Jimmer.

Speed and quickness are not the same thing.

I don't think Patty can get his shot off more easily than Jimmer, tbh. Patty has been the beneficiary of playing in (much) better systems. That's the biggest key difference between them.

[cd98]

Speed and quickness are not the same thing.

I don't think Patty can get his shot off more easily than Jimmer, tbh. Patty has been the beneficiary of playing in (much) better systems. That's the biggest key difference between them.

Again, I disagree. Patty doesn't rely on ball movement of others to get his shot. He relies more on transition threes where his quickness is a factor. He also can ball pressure bc of his quickness, which was a big reason for him getting into the rotation. Jimmer doesn't have the foot speed to pressure most point guards in the backcourt. I would also note that Patty often uses his quickness to get mid range shots in the half court. If Jimmer had Patty's speed, he'd still be a King and he'd be in the rotation.

[Spurtacular]

Again, I disagree. Patty doesn't rely on ball movement of others to get his shot. He relies more on transition threes where his quickness is a factor. He also can ball pressure bc of his quickness, which was a big reason for him getting into the rotation. Jimmer doesn't have the foot speed to pressure most point guards in the backcourt. I would also note that Patty often uses his quickness to get mid range shots in the half court. If Jimmer had Patty's speed, he'd still be a King and he'd be in the rotation.

The fact that you assume Jimmer merely relies on ball movement shows me that you're not very familiar with his game. Jimmer was in the 94th percentile on pick n' roll. He can also break down his man on the dribble. Jimmer is also great at transition threes; maybe the best in the league, tbh. Jimmer's defense is greatly improved and on par or just over par with Mills in the half court. (Mills is a better full court presser). Jimmer shot 45.8 percent from 2's last season in a season in which he was abysmal from threes. He also uses quickness to get mid range shots and had the tear drop working at a Tony Parker level last season and often from a bit further out as well.

If we're talking pure speed, maybe Patty's a bit faster. But I don't think it's the big element of the game you're making it out to be. If we're talking quickness on moves, they're about the same. And Mills wasn't a rotation player when he came to SA either.

[benefactor]

^:lol

[cd98]

The fact that you assume Jimmer merely relies on ball movement shows me that you're not very familiar with his game. Jimmer was in the 94th percentile on pick n' roll. He can also break down his man on the dribble. Jimmer is also great at transition threes; maybe the best in the league, tbh. Jimmer's defense is greatly improved and on par or just over par with Mills in the half court. (Mills is a better full court presser). Jimmer shot 45.8 percent from 2's last season in a season in which he was abysmal from threes. He also uses quickness to get mid range shots and had the tear drop working at a Tony Parker level last season and often from a bit further out as well.

If we're talking pure speed, maybe Patty's a bit faster. But I don't think it's the big element of the game you're making it out to be. If we're talking quickness on moves, they're about the same. And Mills wasn't a rotation player when he came to SA either.

Look, I hope Jimmer makes it in the NBA. If Jimmer was as good as you say, he wouldn't be a fringe NBA player. I'm guessing Jimmer is buried on the bench behind Patty, who Pop sees as doing everything Jimmer does, but a little better.

[SAGirl]

I am going to pitch in for this thread's length TBH. :downspin:

My take: Humble and simple I don't know how Jimmer will do and I am not against him or for him. I simply haven't watched him enough to have an opinion. ?The guy does generate a lot of negative attention due to the fact that he was a lottery pick who did not perform as expected. The spurs have found several contributors who were taken in the second round by other teams like Green and Patty and even undrafted guys. These guys were not hyped at all, therefore what they provided was sort of a pleasant surprise and they only got better with time and experience. Jimmer already comes with some experience and history of not living up to his hype coming from college. I am starting to see a little of Doug McDermott in his story, if McDermott continues underperforming in the NBA, but that remains to be seen and is a subject for another thread.

I do hope he plays well for the spurs. If he is every bit what Spurtacular makes him out to be he will be fun to watch during the season. Personally I am excited to see all the new guys play. Deep down I feel we have sound depth, youth and versatility.

[Spurtacular]

Look, I hope Jimmer makes it in the NBA. If Jimmer was as good as you say, he wouldn't be a fringe NBA player. I'm guessing Jimmer is buried on the bench behind Patty, who Pop sees as doing everything Jimmer does, but a little better.

I don't doubt your optimism. I'm just saying that where you play makes a difference. Kawhi would have likely not have blossomed the way he did in most systems.

[tholdren]

I don't doubt your optimism. I'm just saying that where you play makes a difference. Kawhi would have likely not have blossomed the way he did in most systems.

Always does. Players get to college based on HS team record. Player gets drafted based on college team record factored in.... player gets nba awards based on team record..... it's luck and skill

[Ice009]

Just to nitpick...Mills doesn't have elite speed. I do like his motor and quickness and urgency though. Guy brings a lot of intangibles as well. Jimmer could learn from that.

LOL. What a fucking idiot. Mills is fucking fast, one of the fastest players in the NBA - he just has piss poor handles and can't use his speed with the ball. If he was a better ball handler he'd be able to take his game up another level.

[Spurtacular]

LOL. What a fucking idiot. Mills is fucking fast, one of the fastest players in the NBA - he just has piss poor handles and can't use his speed with the ball. If he was a better ball handler he'd be able to take his game up another level.

Spazzing and calling people names out of the blue while being blatantly wrong :lol

Mills does not have elite speed. Anyone that believes that is either a total homer or so desperate to make the argument or both.

[ceds]

Mills is one of the fastest players in the League baseline to baseline and his release is lightening (much faster then jimmers)

2014 was the first time he has ever had regular consistent minutes in his career and he put up a PER of nearly 20 and was a big reason for the title run.

If not for the shoulder injury he was poised for a breakout last season. I still believe that once he has a little more seasoning in p&r sets and continues to develop his finishing in the paint that he can be a top 15 pg in this league.

[ceds]

Yes he does have elite speed...Have a look at his MPH since they have recorded this stat he has always been at the top.

His speed coming out of college rivaled a 19 yr old Tony Parker and was who he was told to base his game on.

[Spurtacular]

Mills is one of the fastest players in the League baseline to baseline and his release is lightening (much faster then jimmers)

2014 was the first time he has ever had regular consistent minutes in his career and he put up a PER of nearly 20 and was a big reason for the title run.

If not for the shoulder injury he was poised for a breakout last season. I still believe that once he has a little more seasoning in p&r sets and continues to develop his finishing in the paint that he can be a top 15 pg in this league.

Yea, that's why we're always seeing Mills shoot out on lightning fast breaks....Oh, wait.

The rest of your stuff...I'm not arguing against Patty's play. I'm simply saying people are fooling themselves if they suddenly think that Patty has elite speed. That's not even close to true.

[Spurtacular]

Yes he does have elite speed...Have a look at his MPH since they have recorded this stat he has always been at the top.

His speed coming out of college rivaled a 19 yr old Tony Parker and was who he was told to base his game on.

:lol File this under the things Spurs fans say! Mills speed coming out of college was more comparable to John Bagley than a 19-year-old Tony Parker! Do you not understand how lightning fast a young TP was?

[ceds]

The 2008 Olympics is what put Patty on the radar as a prospect. As you can see in the attached video a 19 year old Mills is by far the fastest player on the court . His speed was very comparable to a young Tony Parker and has been in the elite level since he entered the NBA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5zfDNT4A8Y

Furthermore not only does Mills clock up more distance per 48 on court than any other player in NBA, in 2014 his speed of 4.8 MPH while on court was far and away the fastest in the NBA.

Just give it up already....your only making yourself look like a dumbass trying to argue that Mills is not a fast player

[Spurtacular]

The 2008 Olympics is what put Patty on the radar as a prospect. As you can see in the attached video a 19 year old Mills is by far the fastest player on the court . His speed was very comparable to a young Tony Parker and has been in the elite level since he entered the NBA.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5zfDNT4A8Y

Furthermore not only does Mills clock up more distance per 48 on court than any other player in NBA, in 2014 his speed of 4.8 MPH while on court was far and away the fastest in the NBA.

Just give it up already....your only making yourself look like a dumbass trying to argue that Mills is not a fast player

Again, I don't think you get the significance of the speed of 19-year-old Tony Parker. Hell, at this point I wouldn't be comfortable calling Mills faster that Porker (Though he probably is by a bit). Elite speed is Westbrook. It's Rondo pre-acl injury. Those plays on that video are about quickness; not pure speed.

Mills covering distance on the court does not make him fast, dude. He has a directive first off to go high speed for short minutes. But in any event that still speaks to stamina. Michael Bradley consistently covers more ground for the USMNT and he is one of their slower players. And for that matter, Bradley led the entire 2014 World Cup field in that metric.

[ceds]

lol you are a clown!

Sorry but Mills is faster then both Westbrook and Rondo

I very much understand the speed of a 19yr old Parker . The reason i liked Mills as a prospect was because he shared the same physical attributes. TJ ford might be the only other prospect ive seen since with that kind of end to end speed with the ball.


when healthy and in shape is in the top 5% baseline to baseline since he entered the NBA. Why are you ignoring the MPH stat that Mills routinely leads?

[Spurtacular]

lol you are a clown!

Sorry but Mills is faster then both Westbrook and Rondo

I very much understand the speed of a 19yr old Parker . The reason i liked Mills as a prospect was because he shared the same physical attributes. TJ ford might be the only other prospect ive seen since with that kind of end to end speed with the ball.


when healthy and in shape is in the top 5% baseline to baseline since he entered the NBA. Why are you ignoring the MPH stat that Mills routinely leads?

Wow! You're actually now saying Mills is faster than Westbrook!

Post a link on whatever MPH you're talking about. I'm sure you've twisted it up somehow.

And you don't understand 19-year-old Parker. The dude was a flash on the court. Mills is a trickle of water by comparison.

[ceds]

Post a link on whatever MPH you're talking about. I'm sure you've twisted it up somehow..

http://thesportsquotient.com/nba/2015/4/11/who-is-the-fastest-man-in-the-nba

NBA Draft Combine 3/4 Sprint - Mills is top 10 all time with a speed of 3.10 seconds
Average Speed (MPH) - Mills led the league 4.8
Distance covered per 48 - Mills led the league with 3.8

The stats don't lie and whether or not he's faster than westbrook (he's not ) is irrelevant ...your trying to tell us that Mills is not a fast player remember?

[ceperez]

Wow! You're actually now saying Mills is faster than Westbrook!

Post a link on whatever MPH you're talking about. I'm sure you've twisted it up somehow.

And you don't understand 19-year-old Parker. The dude was a flash on the court. Mills is a trickle of water by comparison.

Here's is the important stat about Mills regarding speed: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/basketball/statistics-show-patty-mills-runs-more-than-any-other-player-in-the-nba/story-fni2u9cl-1226951759547

In short, he runs more than everyone else on the court at a much faster speed than anyone. The player that ranks second to Mills is Tony Parker.

The Spurs basically tire out the opponent by working harder than the opponent. This IMHO is how they are able to beat team with superstars like James and Durant. Rather than make it a game that will favor athletes (i.e. 100m dash), make it a game that favors long distance runners (3000 meters).

[Spurtacular]

Here's is the important stat about Mills regarding speed: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/basketball/statistics-show-patty-mills-runs-more-than-any-other-player-in-the-nba/story-fni2u9cl-1226951759547

In short, he runs more than everyone else on the court at a much faster speed than anyone. The player that ranks second to Mills is Tony Parker.

The Spurs basically tire out the opponent by working harder than the opponent. This IMHO is how they are able to beat team with superstars like James and Durant. Rather than make it a game that will favor athletes (i.e. 100m dash), make it a game that favors long distance runners (3000 meters).

Work rate is not the same as speed (not at all). But thanks for the article, anyways.

[ceperez]

Work rate is not the same as speed (not at all). But thanks for the article, anyways.

Not saying that its the same, I'm saying is this is the stat that's relevant for Patty Mills. Also note that Paul Pierce is a the bottom of this stat.

Question for Jimmer is that can he work at the same pace?

[Spurtacular]

Not saying that its the same, I'm saying is this is the stat that's relevant for Patty Mills. Also note that Paul Pierce is a the bottom of this stat.

Question for Jimmer is that can he work at the same pace?

It is very relevant for Mills. I'm not shocked at all to see him leading the league at it. That's what tends to happen when one consistently picks up his man full court. But the reason that it was a topic is ceds was trying to argue that it was an "elite speed" measurement (which it is not).

I doubt Jimmer's gonna pick up guys full court. But if he were to learn to do it from half court here and there to show he's not intimidated, then that'll help his defense overall, imo.

[dabom]

Not a surprise spurstacular is a jimmy fan too. Lol

[Gladney to see you]

jimmers 3/4 court sprint: 3.21 secs...pretty fast.

again numbers can lie about on court ability?

[ceperez]

It is very relevant for Mills. I'm not shocked at all to see him leading the league at it. That's what tends to happen when one consistently picks up his man full court. But the reason that it was a topic is ceds was trying to argue that it was an "elite speed" measurement (which it is not).

I doubt Jimmer's gonna pick up guys full court. But if he were to learn to do it from half court here and there to show he's not intimidated, then that'll help his defense overall, imo.

Mills used to play Australian Rugby and he's using that skill set in the NBA court.

He's able to do a full court press because he has the speed to keep up with his man. This I guess compensates for his lack of size.

This lack of speed indeed will hurt Jimmer on the defensive end. But in fairness, he's not the same kind of player as Mills. The only two things in common they share is (1) the lack of height and (2) a high percentage long range shot.

Mills is actually a pretty intelligent and mature person for his age. The two guys he hung around with were Bobo and Manu. These two are at least 5 years older than him, but he apparently can keep up with the conversation. If anybody is the 'glue' guy in the Spurs, it is without a doubt Patty Mills. The guy gives character to the team, he invents stuff like the Kawhi hand signal or the Froggy pose.

[ceds]

Once again Mills is in the top 10 all time at 3/4 sprint at the combine at 3.10

He leads the league in MPH at 4.8 and has done so multiple times

[cd021]

Mills is one of the fastest players in the League baseline to baseline and his release is lightening (much faster then jimmers)

2014 was the first time he has ever had regular consistent minutes in his career and he put up a PER of nearly 20 and was a big reason for the title run.

If not for the shoulder injury he was poised for a breakout last season. I still believe that once he has a little more seasoning in p&r sets and continues to develop his finishing in the paint that he can be a top 15 pg in this league.

His ceiling isn't that high. He is one of the five fastest players in the league, easily, and he does have a quick release, in combination with foot speed and his shooting accuracy thats a deadly combination. Shot 40% in 13-14 and torched the Clippers in limited minutes in the postseason.

Not sold he will ever be a traditional play making PG ,he is an undersized two. He is an excellent shooter off the dribble (a rarity),much of his P&Rs are for him to score. After taking a screen he's really good at side dribbling into open space for an uncontested jumper.

Having such a great shooter at "PG" is a luxury only very few teams have.

[Spurtacular]

Once again Mills is in the top 10 all time at 3/4 sprint at the combine at 3.10

He leads the league in MPH at 4.8 and has done so multiple times

Shorter guys have an advantage when the sprint is that short. Their steps are closer to the ground. Big guys need that extra bit of space to hit their stride. Keifer Sykes hit 3.13 3/4 and he doesn't strike me as someone having that great of speed either (relative to everyone else).

[TheDoctor]

Would never have thought a Jimmer thread would reach 40 pages.

I got the posts per page at the max so it's 13 pages for me. Still a lot for Jimmer Time.

[will_spurs]

Patty Mills is at the top of the average speed (for the whole NBA last season) at 4.8mph, followed by Cory Joseph (2nd in the NBA). Parker is the 3rd player in the whole NBA (accounting for significant number of games played, ie 21+) at 4.6mph with 17 more games played than Mills and double the mpg... That just says that the Spurs playbook requires the acting PG to run around a lot, and fast. It's called the loop.

Mills is fast for a NBA player, and quite fast for a guard. 19y old Parker was one of the fastest players in NBA history, his first step off the dribble is legendary, sorry but there is no comparison here.

[Chinook]

Shorter guys have an advantage when the sprint is that short. Their steps are closer to the ground. Big guys need that extra bit of space to hit their stride. Keifer Sykes hit 3.13 3/4 and he doesn't strike me as someone having that great of speed either (relative to everyone else).

At this point, you're reaching. Mills is one of the fastest players down a court. Jimmer isn't. It's pretty cut and dried.

[Seventyniner]

Mills has elite straight-line speed. His lateral quickness doesn't seem to be on that level.

I hadn't looked up the distance numbers before, but I am not surprised at all to see Mills, Joseph, and Parker leading the league. Parker being injured really compromised the Spurs offense, and Parker has never contributed much on defense.

Pop was stuck, though. Patty's game isn't at all suited to heavy minutes and Joseph didn't inspire much confidence either.

[Nathan89]

Still only concerned about his defense.

[Spurtacular]

Patty Mills is at the top of the average speed (for the whole NBA last season) at 4.8mph, followed by Cory Joseph (2nd in the NBA). Parker is the 3rd player in the whole NBA (accounting for significant number of games played, ie 21+) at 4.6mph with 17 more games played than Mills and double the mpg... That just says that the Spurs playbook requires the acting PG to run around a lot, and fast. It's called the loop.

Mills is fast for a NBA player, and quite fast for a guard. 19y old Parker was one of the fastest players in NBA history, his first step off the dribble is legendary, sorry but there is no comparison here.

[Spurtacular]

At this point, you're reaching. Mills is one of the fastest players down a court. Jimmer isn't. It's pretty cut and dried.

I wasn't making a Jimmer vs. Mills speed comparison. But 3.10 to 3.21 is not that big a difference if we're going there.

[Bruno]

Wow, this thread is still going...

Regarding Fredette, the key points are, to me:

1) Spurs do like him:
With the E-N confirmation, it looks like his contract is half guaranteed and not the typical training camp contract like reported first. With the luxury tax, it means that Spurs have already invested $1.27M in him. The timing of the signing and Fredette pushing Spurs as 15 players with significant money guaranteed is also meaningful. 3 weeks after the start of free agency, Spurs have basically said: "Fredette is the best we can do, let's call it an offseason". If Spurs didn't like him, they would have waited more before settling for him.

2) Spurs view Fredette as a wing:
Few days before his signing, RC talked about Spurs situation during a SL game. He praised the McCallum trade and explained how the PG rotation would work: Parker will start with Mills subbing him and when/if Parker is given the night off, McCallum would replace him as a starter. He then said that Spurs were looking at wings. I just don't see Spurs adding Fredette few days after that if they were considering him mainly as a PG.

3) There are some minutes to take at wings this summer:
Behind Green, Kawhi and Ginobili, the competition for playing time is wide open. Anderson, Simmons, Fredette and McCallum all have an opportunity to be a part of the rotation this year. These players will basically fight to take Belinelli spot.

4) If Fredette can turn up into a serviceable player in the NBA, it's as Gary Neal 2.0:
This one is my personal opinion. While his previous franchises aren't beyond reproaches, Fredette has shown his limits in his 4 years NBA career: he can't be a NBA PG. He just isn't reliable enough. He could make it as an undersized scoring/shooting SG. Of course, he will be 3 inches shorter than the average SG but, at about 200 lbs, he is bulky/strong enough for that spot.

[BillMc]

Wow, this thread is still going...

Regarding Fredette, the key points are, to me:

1) Spurs do like him:
With the E-N confirmation, it looks like his contract is half guaranteed and not the typical training camp contract like reported first. With the luxury tax, it means that Spurs have already invested $1.27M in him. The timing of the signing and Fredette pushing Spurs as 15 players with significant money guaranteed is also meaningful. 3 weeks after the start of free agency, Spurs have basically said: "Fredette is the best we can do, let's call it an offseason". If Spurs didn't like him, they would have waited more before settling for him.

2) Spurs view Fredette as a wing:
Few days before his signing, RC talked about Spurs situation during a SL game. He praised the McCallum trade and explained how the PG rotation would work: Parker will start with Mills subbing him and when/if Parker is given the night off, McCallum would replace him as a starter. He then said that Spurs were looking at wings. I just don't see Spurs adding Fredette few days after that if they were considering him mainly as a PG.

3) There are some minutes to take at wings this summer:
Behind Green, Kawhi and Ginobili, the competition for playing time is wide open. Anderson, Simmons, Fredette and McCallum all have an opportunity to be a part of the rotation this year. These players will basically fight to take Belinelli spot.

4) If Fredette can turn up into a serviceable player in the NBA, it's as Gary Neal 2.0:
This one is my personal opinion. While his previous franchises aren't beyond reproaches, Fredette has shown his limits in his 4 years NBA career: he can't be a NBA PG. He just isn't reliable enough. He could make it as an undersized scoring/shooting SG. Of course, he will be 3 inches shorter than the average SG but, at about 200 lbs, he is bulky/strong enough for that spot.

Nice writeup Bruno.:toast Restores my faith in this message board.

[Spurtacular]

At this point, you're reaching. Mills is one of the fastest players down a court. Jimmer isn't. It's pretty cut and dried.

Not a reach at all. Shorter guys traditionally do much better at running lines for a reason.

[TD 21]

It was obvious from the beginning that they view him as a wing, given that they already had 3 PG's and a clear need for another shooter on the wing.

It sounds trite, but it really is this simple in his case: If he makes threes at around or above 40%, he'll be a good fit offensively. But I don't see any way Mills-Fredette-Ginobili can work defensively against most teams, particularly with Diaw-West.

This is why, barring him shooting out of his mind in training camp/preseason and the few games he's likely to get leading up to his fully guaranteed date, he's likely to get cut.

[Dex]

It was obvious from the beginning that they view him as a wing, given that they already had 3 PG's and a clear need for another shooter on the wing.

It sounds trite, but it really is this simple in his case: If he makes threes at around or above 40%, he'll be a good fit offensively. But I don't see any way Mills-Fredette-Ginobili can work defensively against most teams, particularly with Diaw-West.

This is why, barring him shooting out of his mind in training camp/preseason and the few games he's likely to get leading up to his fully guaranteed date, he's likely to get cut.

Spurs also value SGs who have some play-making skills, ala Manu and Beli, and further exemplified by the fact that they aren't afraid to go into 2 PG sets with Parker and Mills. Fredette may not be good enough to play full-time point guard, but the fact that he has some experience at the spot and CAN run offense only helps when he is paired next to another PG in the motion offense. This was also one of Neal's weak points...he was a great shooter, but not really adept at creating for others.

[Ice009]

Wow, this thread is still going...

Regarding Fredette, the key points are, to me:

1) Spurs do like him:
With the E-N confirmation, it looks like his contract is half guaranteed and not the typical training camp contract like reported first. With the luxury tax, it means that Spurs have already invested $1.27M in him. The timing of the signing and Fredette pushing Spurs as 15 players with significant money guaranteed is also meaningful. 3 weeks after the start of free agency, Spurs have basically said: "Fredette is the best we can do, let's call it an offseason". If Spurs didn't like him, they would have waited more before settling for him.

2) Spurs view Fredette as a wing:
Few days before his signing, RC talked about Spurs situation during a SL game. He praised the McCallum trade and explained how the PG rotation would work: Parker will start with Mills subbing him and when/if Parker is given the night off, McCallum would replace him as a starter. He then said that Spurs were looking at wings. I just don't see Spurs adding Fredette few days after that if they were considering him mainly as a PG.

3) There are some minutes to take at wings this summer:
Behind Green, Kawhi and Ginobili, the competition for playing time is wide open. Anderson, Simmons, Fredette and McCallum all have an opportunity to be a part of the rotation this year. These players will basically fight to take Belinelli spot.

4) If Fredette can turn up into a serviceable player in the NBA, it's as Gary Neal 2.0:
This one is my personal opinion. While his previous franchises aren't beyond reproaches, Fredette has shown his limits in his 4 years NBA career: he can't be a NBA PG. He just isn't reliable enough. He could make it as an undersized scoring/shooting SG. Of course, he will be 3 inches shorter than the average SG but, at about 200 lbs, he is bulky/strong enough for that spot.

Great write up. I don't like the idea of him being a wing though. Way too short IMO.

The only other reason I can think of signing him this early is also for trade purposes. Maybe the Spurs thought they could also use his salary along with Reggie Williams in a trade if needed? Isn't the minimum time you can trade someone after signing him 3 months? or would the Spurs not do that to someone they just signed?


Mills has elite straight-line speed. His lateral quickness doesn't seem to be on that level.

I hadn't looked up the distance numbers before, but I am not surprised at all to see Mills, Joseph, and Parker leading the league. Parker being injured really compromised the Spurs offense, and Parker has never contributed much on defense.

Pop was stuck, though. Patty's game isn't at all suited to heavy minutes and Joseph didn't inspire much confidence either.

I agree with this take. Mills' straight line speed is elite. He's not the fastest laterally though, but as I also said, his ball handling lets him down and doesn't allow him to unlock his true speed in the half court set. If he was a better ball handler, he'd be absolutely lethal and be able to get to the rack with ease. Parker is a superior ball handler. I rate Parker quite highly in regards to his ball handling. I'm not sure if Patty continues to work on his ball handling or not, but I think he should as that could help take his game to the next level, especially his ball handling in traffic needs work.

[TD 21]

Spurs also value SGs who have some play-making skills, ala Manu and Beli, and further exemplified by the fact that they aren't afraid to go into 2 PG sets with Parker and Mills. Fredette may not be good enough to play full-time point guard, but the fact that he has some experience at the spot and CAN run offense only helps when he is paired next to another PG in the motion offense. This was also one of Neal's weak points...he was a great shooter, but not really adept at creating for others.

I know, but he needs to be paired in the back court with a big combo guard, who can essentially play PG offensively, but guard SG's. This is why Ginobili-Mills works. How does Ginobili-Fredette-Mills work, in most match-ups?

If this were legitimately the sixth wing spot, it wouldn't matter much, but because it could easily end up being fourth (probably not him, but whoever get's this spot eventually), it does.



I don't like the idea of him being a wing though. Way too short IMO.

He is an SG offensively though, since he can't run an offense. Defensively, stature wise he's a PG, but really, he's the type that's only playable when the opposition has a safe hiding place. Which is to say, a perimeter player in the game who's neither an off the dribble or post up threat.

[ceperez]

BTW PARKER & MILLS DIFFERNCE IS THE ABILITY TO FINNISH THE BASKET
IF MILLIS CAN MADE THOSE LAYUPS HE COULD BE ANOTHER TONY WITH BETTER SHOT

We all take Mills for granted, but the reality is, he's just turned 27 and has still room for improving, particularly if he can make those Tony Parker layups.

[Spurtacular]

We all take Mills for granted, but the reality is, he's just turned 27 and has still room for improving, particularly if he can make those Tony Parker layups.

Not I. Luxury tax or no luxury tax, I thought the Spurs were insane to consider getting rid of Mills, who is making a very affordable $3M (If the reports are true).

[ceperez]

Not I. Luxury tax or no luxury tax, I thought the Spurs were insane to consider getting rid of Mills, who is making a very affordable $3M (If the reports are true).

He definitely could have received more from other teams after that great championship performance. But it's just typical Spurs players, pay cut to stay in the team.

[Chinook]

I wasn't making a Jimmer vs. Mills speed comparison. But 3.10 to 3.21 is not that big a difference if we're going there.

It's pretty big if you spend time looking at speed times for combines.


Not a reach at all. Shorter guys traditionally do much better at running lines for a reason.

And they tend to do better on turns and whatnot. Mills is just faster than Jimmer. And it matters.

[ceperez]

It's pretty big if you spend time looking at speed times for combines.



And they tend to do better on turns and whatnot. Mills is just faster than Jimmer. And it matters.

I agree with that, it does matter that Mills is faster and works harder than Jimmer.

Can Jimmer shoot better than Patty?

[Bruno]

The only other reason I can think of signing him this early is also for trade purposes. Maybe the Spurs thought they could also use his salary along with Reggie Williams in a trade if needed? Isn't the minimum time you can trade someone after signing him 3 months? or would the Spurs not do that to someone they just signed?

It's the latest between 3 months and December 15th for a player like Fredette. Signing him in July or mid September is the same trade-wise.

It's just that 3 weeks into the offseason, Spurs decided that Fredette was their guy for that perimeter shooter spot they were looking to fill. Anderson's and Simmons' good summer league has likely influenced Spurs search for that shooter but I'm sure Fredette wasn't the only one fine with "you will have to compete with these 2 players for a spot in the rotation".

[Spurtacular]

It's pretty big if you spend time looking at speed times for combines.



And they tend to do better on turns and whatnot. Mills is just faster than Jimmer. And it matters.

TBH, I've never watched Jimmer and Patty and considered either one fast. Jimmer had one of the better verticals at his combine (better than Kawhi). I've never considered him a leaper.

And it's not like Mills is dribbling circles around anyone or shooting out like a bullet on fast breaks. Any alleged speed he has is negligible due to his lack of handles.

[Spurtacular]

It's the latest between 3 months and December 15th for a player like Fredette. Signing him in July or mid September is the same trade-wise.

It's just that 3 weeks into the offseason, Spurs decided that Fredette was their guy for that perimeter shooter spot they were looking to fill. Anderson's and Simmons' good summer league has likely influenced Spurs search for that shooter but I'm sure Fredette wasn't the only one fine with "you will have to compete with these 2 players for a spot in the rotation".

The widely held belief at this point is that Anderson, Simmons, Fredette all have secured spots. Reggie Williams had his chance and didn't impress. He is likely out the door b/c his contract is not partially guaranteed. And the other guys are auditioning for other teams or are otherwise d-league bound.

[Spurtacular]

I agree with that, it does matter that Mills is faster and works harder than Jimmer.

Can Jimmer shoot better than Patty?

Jimmer does the work in the off season (as does Patty).

Mills has been a very consistent and high quality shooter for the Spurs since he came onto the scene. There was some drop-off coming off the shoulder injury; but he had it going by the playoffs. I have no complaints about Patty's shooting. Still, it's a fair question as to whether Jimmer can shoot even better. In fact, that'll be something fun to keep our eyes on. I wouldn't bet on either outcome. Too many variables. But it'll be fun to see.

[Bruno]

The widely held belief at this point is that Anderson, Simmons, Fredette all have secured spots. Reggie Williams had his chance and didn't impress. He is likely out the door b/c his contract is not partially guaranteed. And the other guys are auditioning for other teams or are otherwise d-league bound.

I'm not talking about spots on the 15 players roster. I'm talking about a spot in the 10 players regular rotation.

[Spurtacular]

I'm not talking about spots on the 15 players roster. I'm talking about a spot in the 10 players regular rotation.

Ah....

I feel like the guys 10-15 are going to get their chances to show what they can do. It'll be interesting to see where they're all at 30 games in and going into the playoffs.

[admiralsnackbar]

Ah.... I feel like the guys 10-15 are going to get their chances to show what they can do. It'll be interesting to see where they're all at 30 games in and going into the playoffs. Excellent point. When Bruno said that twice earlier, it seemed implausible and trivial.

[Spurtacular]

Excellent point. When Bruno said that twice earlier, it seemed implausible and trivial.

http://www.9thgencivic.com/forum/attachments/water-cooler/14602d1352934270-random-meme-thread-uploadfromtaptalk1352934263047.jpg

[littlecoyotecoin]

http://www.9thgencivic.com/forum/attachments/water-cooler/14602d1352934270-random-meme-thread-uploadfromtaptalk1352934263047.jpg

I would have to agree with this. But, it also applies to your "Patty mills isn't fast." And, when thoroughly trounced by the board, the "...I don't think of him as fast..." And, when shown signifcant speed measurements: "...that isn't very significant to me..." And, the deflecting, "...Jimmer was one of the best leapers at the combine..." Too bad he doesn't leap horizontally, as that would have been relevant to the speed discussion, instead of just being a red herring, deflection, move of the goal posts...

That comment toward you was deserving of your picture, now you look at that picture and swallow the pill, Patty does have elite speed. He's faster than Jimmer. It doesn't make Jimmer useless, but continuing to argue it when several people point out facts disproving your assertion doesn't help your case. And, saying "Well, I never thought of him as fast", or "he doesn't seem fast to me", etc... Just makes you look like you don't have very good observational skills, reasoning ability, or even a capability of learning when being taught something new, which diminishes the credibility of anything else you say.

[tholdren]

Jimmer will probably surpass Tim in Points for SA. If he does not make 4 threes a game Spurs probably need to fire pop. Jimmer should get about 47-48 minutes a game. If he gets the minutes he should, then he will lead the league in steals and assists.

#sanantoniofredettes

[Spurtacular]

I would have to agree with this. But, it also applies to your "Patty mills isn't fast." And, when thoroughly trounced by the board, the "...I don't think of him as fast..." And, when shown signifcant speed measurements: "...that isn't very significant to me..." And, the deflecting, "...Jimmer was one of the best leapers at the combine..." Too bad he doesn't leap horizontally, as that would have been relevant to the speed discussion, instead of just being a red herring, deflection, move of the goal posts...

That comment toward you was deserving of your picture, now you look at that picture and swallow the pill, Patty does have elite speed. He's faster than Jimmer. It doesn't make Jimmer useless, but continuing to argue it when several people point out facts disproving your assertion doesn't help your case. And, saying "Well, I never thought of him as fast", or "he doesn't seem fast to me", etc... Just makes you look like you don't have very good observational skills, reasoning ability, or even a capability of learning when being taught something new, which diminishes the credibility of anything else you say.

Difference between blatant trolling and having an opinion you disgree with (that's the point of the picture).

And I explained my reasons very well. A time in a combine doesn't make one fast on the court (or as fast as the homers are trying to purport). You know who was fast? Spud Webb. He got the ball and went free throw line to free throw line just like that. That is not Patty Mills. That is not even close to Patty Mills.

And I was not "deflecting" with the Jimmer stat. For f's sake, do you know what a deflection even is? I was making a point to show that combine stats come with limitations. That's an argument, not a deflection.

This isn't about Jimmer either. I'm completely dismissing the collective homer notion that Patty has elite speed.

[RayTdropout]

Wow 45 pages for this bum. Lmao yous guys are funny

[tholdren]

jimmay

[Ice009]

Difference between blatant trolling and having an opinion you disgree with (that's the point of the picture).

And I explained my reasons very well. A time in a combine doesn't make one fast on the court (or as fast as the homers are trying to purport). You know who was fast? Spud Webb. He got the ball and went free throw line to free throw line just like that. That is not Patty Mills. That is not even close to Patty Mills.

And I was not "deflecting" with the Jimmer stat. For f's sake, do you know what a deflection even is? I was making a point to show that combine stats come with limitations. That's an argument, not a deflection.

This isn't about Jimmer either. I'm completely dismissing the collective homer notion that Patty has elite speed.

It's obvious that you haven't watched Patty Mills much at all. I've seen him since he was under 20 and he does have elite speed. Doesn't matter what you say to try and keep disapproving that, I guess you can't see much of anything when your head is stuck up Jimmer's ass.

[Spurtacular]

It's obvious that you haven't watched Patty Mills much at all. I've seen him since he was under 20 and he does have elite speed. Doesn't matter what you say to try and keep disapproving that, I guess you can't see much of anything when your head is stuck up Jimmer's ass.

I've followed Patty since college. People confuse general quickness with elite speed. That's sad, tbh.

[random21]

Why the f does this have 45 pages????

[exstatic]

I've followed Patty since college. People confuse general quickness with elite speed. That's sad, tbh.

The court sprints don't measure quickness, they measure flat speed, and yes 1/10th of a second is significant. On a fast break, that 1/10th can mean the difference between getting your layup up off the glass, and having it swatted off the glass right out of your hand.

[Blackjack]

You could also say: dedicating the time to perpetuate a thread about Jimmer, in excess of 40 pages, is the difference between having and not having a life.

Every tick of the clock matters.

[benefactor]

You could also say: dedicating the time to perpetuate a thread about Jimmer, in excess of 40 pages, is the difference between having and not having a life.

Every tick of the clock matters.
Sup breh. How's life treating you?

[Blackjack]

Sup breh. How's life treating you?

Went from bachelor to married with 3 kids in a span of 3 years.

I'm tired . . . :lol

Glad to see THC still holdin' down the fort. :smokin

[Spurtacular]

The court sprints don't measure quickness, they measure flat speed, and yes 1/10th of a second is significant. On a fast break, that 1/10th can mean the difference between getting your layup up off the glass, and having it swatted off the glass right out of your hand.

Court sprints inherently favor smaller players and are not absolute measures of speed with the ball, filling a lane, etc. Obviously, fractions of a second can matter in a game. So can inches. That tenth of a second is often covered by the other player's longer reach.

Bottom line: Patty doesn't pass the eye test for elite speed. Anyone claiming that has some serious homeritis.

[Chinook]

Court sprints inherently favor smaller players and are not absolute measures of speed with the ball, filling a lane, etc. Obviously, fractions of a second can matter in a game. So can inches. That tenth of a second is often covered by the other player's longer reach.

Bottom line: Patty doesn't pass the eye test for elite speed. Anyone claiming that has some serious homeritis.

Bottom line is that Patty doesn't pass your confirmation bias induced eye test for speed, but he passes everyone else's.

[ChumpDumper]

Do Mormons have their own eye tests?

I know they have special underpants.

[Chinook]

Do Mormons have their own eye tests?

I know they have special underpants.

Funny that you mention that. Reading Doc: The Rape of the Town of Lovell right now. It goes over the garments that the women wear.

[ChumpDumper]

Funny that you mention that. Reading Doc: The Rape of the Town of Lovell right now. It goes over the garments that the women wear.Damn, that is a sad and infuriating story.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Bottom line is that Patty doesn't pass your confirmation bias induced eye test for speed, but he passes everyone else's.

Don't forget he also wants us to ignore all the actual numbers that QUANTIFY the speed difference between the two. His eye tests doesn't only trump a superior number of contrary eye-tests. His eye-test trumps the actual numbers, too.

[littlecoyotecoin]

Court sprints inherently favor smaller players and are not absolute measures of speed with the ball, filling a lane, etc. Obviously, fractions of a second can matter in a game. So can inches. That tenth of a second is often covered by the other player's longer reach.

Bottom line: Patty doesn't pass the eye test for elite speed. Anyone claiming that has some serious homeritis.

There has been plenty to prove Patty's speed put forth. Nothing to prove Jimmer's speed. Nothing is ever absolute. Could Jimmer be the fastest man on the planet, and Patty the slowest. Possible, but all the evidence points to the opposite: Patty is regarded for his speed. Jimmer is not. Where measurables are available, Patty is faster, Jimmer is not. It's not absolute. But, it's still pretty obvious to anyone that is unbias.

And, poor Jimmer, being discriminated against because he is so tall. Not fair asking him to win a sprint against a six foot guy when he is six three...that doesn't show him in his fast light. Jimmer is fast in alternate ways, where getting from point a to point b quicker than the other person isn't taken into consideration. He is tall fast. He is fill up the lane fast. Not so much movement fast, and as soon as the NBA stops using stopwatches, only then will Jimmer's true speed be recognized, and Patty's speed ignored for the red herring it was.

[Spurtacular]

Do Mormons have their own eye tests?

I know they have special underpants.

Ask a Mormon and then don't get back to me.

[Spurtacular]

Bottom line is that Patty doesn't pass your confirmation bias induced eye test for speed, but he passes everyone else's.

Yes, he doesn't pass my 'biased' eye test and he passes many others' 'biased' eye test. I don't get your point? If anything, my bias is less significant. I've been a Patty fan since college, and I'm not going to hype his speed. Are you claiming that Patty has "elite speed?" Cos that's the argument at hand.

[ChumpDumper]

Ask a Mormon and then don't get back to me.I am asking a Mormon.

[Spurtacular]

Damn, that is a sad and infuriating story.

You've peaked my interest. Give us a review.

[Spurtacular]

I am asking a Mormon.

Yea, I'd ask how that's going except for the part "and then don't get back to me."

[ceperez]

I am asking a Mormon.

So what's your question?

[Spurtacular]

Don't forget he also wants us to ignore all the actual numbers that QUANTIFY the speed difference between the two. His eye tests doesn't only trump a superior number of contrary eye-tests. His eye-test trumps the actual numbers, too.

1. Don't know how many times I have to say that my analysis of Patty's alleged elite speed has nothing to do with Jimmer.
2. So, the 30 is an absolute measure of speed? Go ahead and list a scale for us then, so we can all be as crisply informed as you are.

[ChumpDumper]

Yea, I'd ask how that's going except for the part "and then don't get back to me."So you're saying you aren't Mormon?


So what's your question?Do Mormons have special eye tests and other tests when discussing the merits of Mormon athletes as opposed to non-Mormon athletes.

[benefactor]

Went from bachelor to married with 3 kids in a span of 3 years.

I'm tired . . . :lol

Glad to see THC still holdin' down the fort. :smokin
Bet you are.:lol Mine is 16 so I have a whole new set of worries. Thankfully she's a good girl and not a shithead like I was at 16.

[Spurtacular]

So you're saying you aren't Mormon?

Do Mormons have special eye tests and other tests when discussing the merits of Mormon athletes as opposed to non-Mormon athletes.

I don't divulge such personal details online. I've repeatedly told you this.

[ChumpDumper]

I don't divulge such personal details online. I've repeatedly told you this.You won't divulge that you aren't something?

OK, you're Mormon then. If you're not going to deny it, it's what you are.

[jeebus]

Over 1350 posts and 14 pages about a short Austin Daye.

[Spurtacular]

You won't divulge that you aren't something?

OK, you're Mormon then. If you're not going to deny it, it's what you are.

Your cheap come-ons and faulty logic aren't going to prove anything besides your idiocy and trollery.

[ChumpDumper]

Your cheap come-ons and faulty logic aren't going to prove anything besides your idiocy and trollery.It's OK that you're Mormon, dude.

Don't get all worked up about it.

[ceperez]

Do Mormons have special eye tests and other tests when discussing the merits of Mormon athletes as opposed to non-Mormon athletes.

Nope

Now quit disrespecting a Spurs fan.

Low life like you deserve to live in a trailer park. Please, tell me how it feels to live in a trailer park?

It's absolutely okay if you don't want to admit you live a trailer park. Nothing wrong with that.

[will_spurs]

Over 1350 posts and 14 pages about a short Austin Daye.

Actually most of posts aren't even about Jimmer.

[littlecoyotecoin]

1. Don't know how many times I have to say that my analysis of Patty's alleged elite speed has nothing to do with Jimmer.
2. So, the 30 is an absolute measure of speed? Go ahead and list a scale for us then, so we can all be as crisply informed as you are.

Well, Jimmer vs Patty is how it got started. The only reason you're trying to leave Jimmer out of it now is because Jimmer doesn't compare favorably on any speed metric. And the only reason you're trying to knock Patty's speed is to save Jimmer's viability. If you just want to have some argument about whether Patty has elite speed or not, that's already been sufficiently proven by other posters. Afterward, you made the attempt to say some of Patty's numbers should be disregarded because he is short, and has a natural advantage? But, if you're arguing about whether his speed is elite- outside of any other players (ahem <cough> Jimmer) why would we disregard any measurement that proves his elite speed because of height? We're looking at his elite speed in a vacuum, which proved you wrong, so you want to throw in height.

I don't need to give a scale for you. These things are pretty well established already. You just have to come to accept them. Patty is fast. He is among the fastest in the NBA. He is in elite company in that regard, as has already been shown.

Why are you trying to introduce ability to fill a lane, wingspan, and height, to a discussion that you are now arguing is supposed to be simply and narrowly defined to be about the elite speed of Patty Mills?!

[Spurtacular]

It's OK that you're Mormon, dude.

Don't get all worked up about it.

You can say it's okay or not okay. It doesn't matter to me. It's your issue; not mine.

[ChumpDumper]

You can say it's okay or not okay. It doesn't matter to me. It's your issue; not mine.Your being a Mormon is your issue.

I'm not a Mormon so being a Mormon isn't my issue.

[dbestpro]

Your being a Mormon is your issue.

I'm not a Mormon so being a Mormon isn't my issue.

So, I guess you could also say not being a Mormon is your issue, while being a Mormon isn't his issue.

[Spurtacular]

Well, Jimmer vs Patty is how it got started. The only reason you're trying to leave Jimmer out of it now is because Jimmer doesn't compare favorably on any speed metric. And the only reason you're trying to knock Patty's speed is to save Jimmer's viability. If you just want to have some argument about whether Patty has elite speed or not, that's already been sufficiently proven by other posters. Afterward, you made the attempt to say some of Patty's numbers should be disregarded because he is short, and has a natural advantage? But, if you're arguing about whether his speed is elite- outside of any other players (ahem <cough> Jimmer) why would we disregard any measurement that proves his elite speed because of height? We're looking at his elite speed in a vacuum, which proved you wrong, so you want to throw in height.

I don't need to give a scale for you. These things are pretty well established already. You just have to come to accept them. Patty is fast. He is among the fastest in the NBA. He is in elite company in that regard, as has already been shown.

Why are you trying to introduce ability to fill a lane, wingspan, and height, to a discussion that you are now arguing is supposed to be simply and narrowly defined to be about the elite speed of Patty Mills?!

Actually, Jimmer's speed metric does compare relatively favorably. He did well enough in speed at the combine.

Now, your case is that Patty has elite speed. I disagree. But perhaps your standard for elite speed is lower than mine.

I've made the case that whatever speed you think Patty has is much mitigated by his lack of height (in some instances) and his not especially good dribbling. I introduce these factors to show that there is basically speed and then there's basketball speed. Patty isn't getting the ball and flying up the court like a Westbrook or a Webb. Now, if you have a lower standard of elite speed, then feel free to clarify.

[Spurtacular]

So, I guess you could also say not being a Mormon is your issue, while being a Mormon isn't his issue.

And that is why he'll continue to bring it up; and that's why I'll continue to dismiss his issue.

[ChumpDumper]

And that is why he'll continue to bring it up; and that's why I'll continue to dismiss his issue.You're a Mormon.

That's OK.

[Ignignokt]

It's OK that you're Mormon, dude.

Don't get all worked up about it.

Do you or do you not do photography for the Austin Toros?

Is your name David? Yes or No?

[ChumpDumper]

Do you or do you not do photography for the Austin Toros? Do not.


Is your name David? Yes or No?No.

[Ignignokt]

Do not.

No.

You admitted to being a toros photographer in the past. Or even worse, going to the games to take pics, maybe you weren't the team photographer. Maybe you were buck scouting for blake and his wife.

could you shed some light on this matter?

Thank you!

[ChumpDumper]

You admitted to being a toros photographer in the past. Or even worse, going to the games to take pics, maybe you weren't the team photographer. Maybe you were buck scouting for blake and his wife.

could you shed some light on this matter?

Thank you!Could you tell me why you are obsessed with me?

Shed some light on your obsession with me.

Thank you!

[ChumpDumper]

*crickets*

:cry I guess he's afraid to say why he's obsessed with me. :cry

[buttsR4rebounding]

So if Jimmer sticks and we win a 6th will he get to take the trophy to Mormania?

[littlecoyotecoin]

Actually, Jimmer's speed metric does compare relatively favorably. He did well enough in speed at the combine.

Now, your case is that Patty has elite speed. I disagree. But perhaps your standard for elite speed is lower than mine.

I've made the case that whatever speed you think Patty has is much mitigated by his lack of height (in some instances) and his not especially good dribbling. I introduce these factors to show that there is basically speed and then there's basketball speed. Patty isn't getting the ball and flying up the court like a Westbrook or a Webb. Now, if you have a lower standard of elite speed, then feel free to clarify.

You don't get to introduce immeasurable basketball speed while at the same time saying you've measured it, and it comes out in favor of your argument for Jimmer and against Patty. That's like a religion faith argument. "Just have faith that even though it can't be quantified, and all other quantifiable numbers say the opposite, Patty Mills is not fast at basketball actions."

You will have to define relatively favorably. And, to whom? If you are comparing him to Patty, you are wrong. He doesn't compare favorably in any measurable speed metric I have seen. Show me one where he is faster. One. No? Don't have one? Your argument is reduced then to: Jimmer is not THAT much slower than Patty. And then here is where your lack of understanding of math comes into play. Looking at a raw number and saying .11 seconds, etc isn't THAT much faster, when in actuality it may be two or three standard deviations, or feet not inches, when you are arguing his 3 inch height advantage would make up for the two feet out of position he would be due to that .11 seconds. Etc. You can't say he isn't "that much" faster without defining "that much". The only thing that can be said is what has already been said, and that Patty is among the fastest in the league at measurables already given in this thread, and that includes being faster than Jimmer who is not among the fastest in the league. Period.

Anything else is some nebulous argument about how much slower can a player be than Patty and still be effective. That's what the argument has been reduced to. Jimmer is slower than Patty, is he so much slower that he can't be effective. We will see. Can his moderate size advantage allow him to make up for the deficit of speed vs Patty? Thus far in their careers, I haven't seen any reason to believe Jimmer's used his three inch height to make up for his speed on defense, especially, or offense - relative to Patty.

And, it wasn't my case for Patty's elite speed. Several other posters made it. I just observed. They made a clear case. You just can't admit you were wrong. I, on the other hand, as an outside observer, have no problem seeing who won that argument (not you). They provided facts. You can only talk about magic unicorn basketball eye test speed that you have no measurements for, and, by the way, you got shouted down for because everyone else's eye test also states that Patty is fast on these immeasurable eye-test metrics you want to use.

But, I'm confused again. Are you talking about Patty's speed? You keep wanting to introduce non-speed items into the speed discussion after reprimanding me that this was to be a discussion of Patty Mills lack of speed. Do you have any data to counter the data already provided that Patty Mills is among the fastest in the NBA?

Any data?

And data showing Patty not in the upper quartile in any measurement? Anything. You were provided with several metrics. Give us one.

There's about ten people that disagree with your eye test, and no one that agrees with your eye test. In addition to that, there is data that casts doubt on your eye test, while simultaneously corroborating the ten or so eye tests that disagree with your single, solitary, lonely, dataless eyetest. I know that doesn't give you pause, but it should.

[monkeypunk]

So if Jimmer sticks and we win a 6th will he get to take the trophy to Mormania?

He has to toss his ring into the Joseph Smith hat for the Xenu overlord to sport on his intergalactic Space Jam competition.

[Ignignokt]

Could you tell me why you are obsessed with me?

Shed some light on your obsession with me.

Thank you!

Why are you quoting Spurtacular here?

[monkeypunk]

http://global3.memecdn.com/The-Original-Mormon_o_79691.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

Why are you quoting Spurtacular here?i just asked him one question.

You've been stalking me for years.

Why have you been stalking me for years, gtown?

[cd98]

I guess the bigger question is if Jimmer hits a Sean Elliotesque three pointer to win a championship for the Spurs, are we all converting to Mormonism?

[Ignignokt]

i just asked him one question.

You've been stalking me for years.

Why have you been stalking me for years, gtown?

You can't stalk someone who has 100k posts and infests every thread and has no life. It's not like you make an effort to shy away. You live and breathe this forum, if it goes down, you will probably hang yourself.

I mean, winning an argument in this forum is SO important for you.

You will spam post for eternity if you didn't have to have bowel movements.

[ChumpDumper]

You can't stalk someone who has 100k posts and infests every thread and has no life. It's not like you make an effort to shy away. You live and breathe this forum, if it goes down, you will probably hang yourself.

I mean, winning an argument in this forum is SO important for you.

You will spam post for eternity if you didn't have to have bowel movements.Of course you can stalk me.

You do it all the time.

The majority of your posts are dedicated to me and Blake.

If I left you'd obviously have to hang yourself.

So why do you dedicate so much time to me? If I have no life, you have even less.

[Ignignokt]

Of course you can stalk me.

You do it all the time.

The majority of your posts are dedicated to me and Blake.

If I left you'd obviously have to hang yourself.

So why do you dedicate so much time to me? If I have no life, you have even less.

Stop crying,you're such the little bitch. I'll back off if you want. Just cry to Kori.

[ChumpDumper]

Stop crying,you're such the little bitch. I'll back off if you want. Just cry to Kori.Aw, gtown -- don't get mad and pouty.

All you have to do is say why you've taken such a fancy to me all these years.

You get so shy when you are confronted.

[Ignignokt]

Aw, gtown -- don't get mad and pouty.

All you have to do is say why you've taken such a fancy to me all these years.

You get so shy when you are confronted.

Only 4ever alones need to believe that they are getting hit on constantly. Wipe the dorito stains off your fedora and find some fat feminist heifer to rule your roost.

[ChumpDumper]

Only 4ever alones need to believe that they are getting hit on constantly. Wipe the dorito stains off your fedora and find some fat feminist heifer to rule your roost.I don't need to believe anything. The proof is in your posts.

Why do you get so angry about your own posts?

[Ignignokt]

I don't need to believe anything. The proof is in your posts.

Why do you get so angry about your own posts?

So much cattiness from this post. It's like I'm reading a Huff Post comment section.

[ChumpDumper]

So much cattiness from this post. It's like I'm reading a Huff Post comment section.Hey, you're the one who followed me into three threads today with your claws out.

[Ignignokt]

Hey, you're the one who followed me into three threads today with your claws out.

You're in every thread. I'd have to not post here to avoid you.

[ChumpDumper]

You're in every thread. I'd have to not post here to avoid you.Not every thread.

You would never avoid me. You barely post about anything else here.

[Ignignokt]

Not every thread.

You would never avoid me. You barely post about anything else here.

translation: TTHHHHSTAAAAAAHPPPPP

[ChumpDumper]

translation: TTHHHHSTAAAAAAHPPPPPAs I said in the other threads you've been posting in, I don't mind your stalking.

You're as impotent as your Nazi friend.

[Ignignokt]

As I said in the other threads you've been posting in, I don't mind your stalking.

You're as impotent as your Nazi friend.

translation: TTHHHHSTAAAAAAHPPPPP

[ChumpDumper]

translation: TTHHHHSTAAAAAAHPPPPPPretty much what you are saying now since your insults failed.

Sorry, gtown.

Why did you change your screen name again?

lol

[Ignignokt]

Pretty much what you are saying now since your insults failed.

Sorry, gtown.

Why did you change your screen name again?

lol

translation: TTHHHHSTAAAAAAHPPPPP

[ChumpDumper]

translation: TTHHHHSTAAAAAAHPPPPPTranslation: :cry I failed, but I'll keep posting in the four threads I followed CD into! That'll show everyone! :cry

[Ignignokt]

Translation: :cry I failed, but I'll keep posting in four threads! That'll show everyone! :cry

translation: TTHHHHSTAAAAAAHPPPPP

[ChumpDumper]

translation: TTHHHHSTAAAAAAHPPPPPContinue.

[Ignignokt]

Continue.

translation: TTHHHHSTAAAAAAHPPPPP

[ChumpDumper]

translation: TTHHHHSTAAAAAAHPPPPPYou'll keep posting that.

You can't help yourself.

[Gladney to see you]

This is what the summer is all about.

[cd98]

If the last page is indicative of how this thread gets to 100 pages, count me out.

[Blackjack]

Bet you are.:lol Mine is 16 so I have a whole new set of worries. Thankfully she's a good girl and not a shithead like I was at 16.

Yeah, have a few friends in your boat. Nothing like having a daughter. Pretty sure that's how the second amendment came about.

I've had to restrain from punting a few kids. Little fuckers can't barely walk or talk, but I know what's up. These 1-2 yr olds gonna learn.

[Mnky]

If the last page is indicative of how this thread gets to 100 pages, count me out.

:lol most of these threads are a Bunch of queers flirting with each other thinking they're proving each other wrong. Unfortunate, really.

[tholdren]

Jimmer is better than Ray McCallum

[bic50]

Jimmer is better than Ray McCallum
Might want to give pop and r.c a call and let them know this.

[Spurtacular]

Your argument is reduced then to: Jimmer is not THAT much slower than Patty. And then here is where your lack of understanding of math comes into play. Looking at a raw number and saying .11 seconds, etc isn't THAT much faster, when in actuality it may be two or three standard deviations, or feet not inches, when you are arguing his 3 inch height advantage would make up for the two feet out of position he would be due to that .11 seconds. Etc.



Actually, my central argument is not based upon Jimmer compares with Mills speed-wise; though, I have regarded some of the comparisons. My argument is whether or not Mills truly has elite speed. But let's go by your standard then. You argue the difference in .11 between Jimmer and Mills. How about the .14 difference between Mills and Nate Robinson? That's an even greater differential (which is even more impressive as times tighten among leaders). How do you claim that Mills has such elite speed in the wake of such a glaring difference?

[Gladney to see you]

What else can we throw out there. Jimmer did 14 reps.

[Brazil]

:lol after all these years, there are still people engaging chump in a back and forth discussion

[bic50]

:lol 47 pages

[tholdren]

Might want to give pop and r.c a call and let them know this.

I already did, that's why they picked Jimmer up.. remember when pop picked anderson, bogans.. yeah, neither does anyone else

[ElNono]

NBA PM: Jimmer Fredette Running Out of Chances
By Alex Kennedy on August 19, 2015

It’s obviously very difficult to become an NBA player, but it’s even tougher to stick in the NBA or sign that lucrative contract every player covets. A long, successful career in the NBA is never guaranteed, no matter how successful a player was at another level or how high they were selected in the draft.

Jimmer Fredette is a perfect example of this. He was a household name during his collegiate career. As a senior at BYU, his games were must-watch television and he finished the season averaging 28.9 points, 4.3 assists, 3.4 rebounds and 1.3 steals. He carried the team, and there’s no question it was entertaining.

And, as I’ve mentioned in the past, his crazy numbers and seemingly unlimited three-point range even allowed him to briefly transcend the sports world and become part of pop culture. Lil Wayne dropped his name on the 2011 track Sure Thing (“I got a chopper and a trimmer shootin’ like Jimmer”). There were even entire songs about Fredette, with the most notable example being “Teach Me How to Jimmer” (which has millions of views on YouTube).

However, despite all of that early success and recognition, Fredette now find his NBA career in jeopardy. Through four years in the NBA, Fredette has averaged 3.6 points and 1.2 assists, while shooting 41.2 percent from the field and 38.1 percent from three-point range.

Read more:
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-pm-jimmer-fredette-needs-to-produce-this-season/

[ElNono]

From that article:

Fortunately for Fredette, Spurs head coach Gregg Popovich has a history of hiding poor defensive players. In fact, he has a name for this defensive scheme, which is named after his former player Vinny Del Negro.

“Some of the stuff we do on defense, we actually have one thing we call on the pin downs, we say we’re going to ‘Del Negro it’ and that’s in his honor and we’ve done that for 15 years,” Popovich said a few years ago. “We have a Del Negro defense out there because he couldn’t play a lick of D. At times we had to invent something just to hide him, so we call it ‘Del Negro’ and you do certain things on the court and everybody has to make up for that guy who’s the ‘Del Negro.’”

:lol

[Dverde]

Jimmer Del Negro has a nice ring to it.

[Spurtacular]

Well, Jimmer's defense has improved. But I'll say that BYU basically played a version of a Del Negro defense for Jimmer at BYU.

[cd98]

del is taller & faster than him,so sorry

Del Negro was taller, but not faster. And while Del Negro was a great midrange shooter, he didn't have Jimmer range.

[Spurtacular]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF1S9Yi9h6s

[ChumpDumper]

http://images.rapgenius.com/e0ca639438f7e4c4077659c40b9a2751.464x310x14.gif

[LittleCriminal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6LTguJLFVo

[Maddog]

HE DEFINATELY MOVES FASTER AND BETTER THAN JIMMER,HE DOESN'T NEED JIMMER'S RANGE,COZ HE WAS THE BEST 3POINTS SHOOTER IN HIS SPURS DAYS ALWAYS SHOOT 40% FROM DEEP

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11924215_871820222896387_2579938277928624330_n.jpg ?oh=c8fee4542430972639b6739420190577&oe=56438102&__gda__=1451199284_5c82ae8360f4973b91a06d83e5a6fc1 6


During the 1994–95, 1995–96, and 1996-97 seasons, the NBA attempted to address decreased scoring by shortening the distance of the line from 23 feet, 9 inches (22 feet at the corners) to a uniform 22 feet (6.7 m) around the basket.
Vinnie's best years (combination of % and 3pt attempts) occured when the 3 pt line was shortened. Still probably a underrated player.

[AFBlue]

I love how the title of the thread still says "mostly non-guaranteed."

[Chinook]

I love how the title of the thread still says "mostly non-guaranteed."

It still is, but barely.

[Gladney to see you]

How does the contract work again?

[cd98]

HE DEFINATELY MOVES FASTER AND BETTER THAN JIMMER,HE DOESN'T NEED JIMMER'S RANGE,COZ HE WAS THE BEST 3POINTS SHOOTER IN HIS SPURS DAYS ALWAYS SHOOT 40% FROM DEEP

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11924215_871820222896387_2579938277928624330_n.jpg ?oh=c8fee4542430972639b6739420190577&oe=56438102&__gda__=1451199284_5c82ae8360f4973b91a06d83e5a6fc1 6

He wasn't always a 40% three point shooter. I bet you never saw Del Negro play for the Spurs. You're just a Anti-Jimmer troll judging by your posts.

[Aztecfan03]

He wasn't always a 40% three point shooter. I bet you never saw Del Negro play for the Spurs. You're just a Anti-Jimmer troll judging by your posts.
2 out of 6 years means always.

[LittleCriminal]

IN HIGHLIGHT.............EVERYONE CAN LOOKS UNSTOPPABLE:wakeup

Its not a highlight reel...its a scouting report.
It lists his pros and cons with examples of each::loser

[SAGirl]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6LTguJLFVo
Thanks for sharing that. It helped me get a sense for his game. He definitely brings more than Eddie in term of his offensive game. Defensively he seemed atrocious bc he is small and has short arms. He doesn't have good defensive fundamentals and unlike a Anderson can't recover at all on mistakes. Anderson's limitations are in athleticism, but he has other tools he knows how to use. He has excellent timing and anticipation, understands angles, and has size and length to recover into plays and come up w blocks and deflections. Jimmer has none of that but hopefully he wisens up on defense at least. Spurs must have some kind of plan they believe could help him.

[Spurtacular]

IN HIGHLIGHT.............EVERYONE CAN LOOKS UNSTOPPABLE:wakeup

If we did highlights of your posts, you wouldn't.

[Spurtacular]

Thanks for sharing that. It helped me get a sense for his game. He definitely brings more than Eddie in term of his offensive game. Defensively he seemed atrocious bc he is small and has short arms. He doesn't have good defensive fundamentals and unlike a Anderson can't recover at all on mistakes. Anderson's limitations are in athleticism, but he has other tools he knows how to use. He has excellent timing and anticipation, understands angles, and has size and length to recover into plays and come up w blocks and deflections. Jimmer has none of that but hopefully he wisens up on defense at least. Spurs must have some kind of plan they believe could help him.

Eddie seems like a middle income man's Green. Saying that, I'd love to see him on the SA roster at some point.

Jimmer definitely has much more offensive talents than many are willing to concede. For instance, the notion that he can't play PG is poppycock.

I don't think KA and Jimmer are in direct competition for mins. I think the plan is to use KA as KL's back-up.

[Namundy]

Ceiling - Gary Neal.

[Big P]

Wasn't sure if this was worthy of another thread, so I'll put it here. It's lead story on hoopshype this norning.


Rasual Butler on Spurs' radar

Michael Scotto: Source: San Antonio Spurs have expressed interest in free agent forward Rasual Butler. He shot 39% from 3PT range last season in Washington.
– via Twitter MikeAScotto

[Spurtacular]

Wasn't sure if this was worthy of another thread, so I'll put it here. It's lead story on hoopshype this norning.


Rasual Butler on Spurs' radar

Michael Scotto: Source: San Antonio Spurs have expressed interest in free agent forward Rasual Butler. He shot 39% from 3PT range last season in Washington.
– via Twitter MikeAScotto

Ceiling - Roger Mason

[tholdren]

Jimmer from the black

[Brian Windhorst]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6LTguJLFVo
Yeesh that music is nails on a chalkboard to anyone who's ever had to use Garageband extensively

[SAGirl]

I had to continue to add to this thread when I found this:

http://thesportsquotient.com/nba/2015/8/21/the-puzzling-journey-of-jimmer-fredette

Not a completely negative article, it does acknowledge Fredette's deficiencies:

"He was electrifying in college because he was a threat to drain jumpers from anywhere, but he doesn’t really have the right skill set to be a point guard at the highest level. Even at BYU, Jimmer only averaged 3.7 assists per game over his career and never showed the poise and control that is necessary to run the show on an NBA floor. He was also subpar on defense. Playing poor defense and being unable to effectively distribute the ball makes it extremely difficult for a smallish guard with limited driving ability to thrive in the NBA. But if there’s anybody who can revive his career, it would have to be his new head coach,Gregg Popovich."

[Spurtacular]

I had to continue to add to this thread when I found this:

http://thesportsquotient.com/nba/2015/8/21/the-puzzling-journey-of-jimmer-fredette

Not a completely negative article, it does acknowledge Fredette's deficiencies:

"He was electrifying in college because he was a threat to drain jumpers from anywhere, but he doesn’t really have the right skill set to be a point guard at the highest level. Even at BYU, Jimmer only averaged 3.7 assists per game over his career and never showed the poise and control that is necessary to run the show on an NBA floor. He was also subpar on defense. Playing poor defense and being unable to effectively distribute the ball makes it extremely difficult for a smallish guard with limited driving ability to thrive in the NBA. But if there’s anybody who can revive his career, it would have to be his new head coach,Gregg Popovich."

Keep in mind, it's fashionable for writers to trash Jimmer. Saying stuff ever so casually like Jimmer can't play PG in the NBA is bunk; and they know it.

[SquawkinHawkBigCock]

Keep in mind, it's fashionable for writers to trash Jimmer. Saying stuff like Jimmer can't play PG in the NBA is bunk; and they know it.You're on top of the faggot list.

[Spurtacular]

You're on top of the faggot list.

Keep your faggotry to yourself.

[dweaver99027]

50 pages.... you guys can do it! And then probably Jim'll be cut at camp, lol.

[RayTdropout]

This is a joke

[Spurtacular]

50 pages.... you guys can do it! And then probably Jim'll be cut at camp, lol.

The haters'll eat crow.

[tholdren]

Go away
This is a joke

[dweaver99027]

As if any real Spurs fan here actively roots for Jimmer or any other of the 15 players on the roster to fail... I wish Jimmer becomes an MVP candidate. I am also realistic... 1 more page!

[Spurtacular]

As if any real Spurs fan here actively roots for Jimmer or any other of the 15 players on the roster to fail... I wish Jimmer becomes an MVP candidate. I am also realistic... 1 more page!

I get that you're genuine. You may be just eating crow eggs is all. I was more speaking to the real haters.

[playbonner15]

Fuck you faggots lets get this to 50+ pages

[playbonner15]

50 pages for a guy whos gonna get cut before the season starts smh

[playbonner15]

Is it 50 yet?

[Rustyman]

I'll chip in.

[Chinook]

We're there.

[Gladney to see you]

I think there are Spurs fans who will root for Jimmer to fail. The hatred is as strong as his following...bizarre.

I think BYU lovers and Utah Haters follow him to the ends of the earth.

[ceperez]

There's a lot of drama here.... make or break for Jimmer. If he can't cut it with the Spurs, he can't cut it anywhere in the NBA.

I'm rooting for him to succeed. Of course, I like every player in the current Spurs lineup and hope they all exceed expectations.

[playbonner15]

If Jimmer succeeds, it will be worthy of an HBO documentary starting from his BYU days to his downfall in his first years in the nba, to his resurgence as Spurs' top scorer

[playbonner15]

A little bit more for 50

[cd98]

If Jimmer succeeds here, it will be a boon for Spurs free agency efforts in the future for players with high potential that are flailing out of the league and sign on the cheap. It can't hurt to have a rep as the place to go to save your career.

[Kawhi4ROY]

I can't stop won't stop

[SquawkinHawkBigCock]

What is it about ST that attracts such massive faggots? ^

[Gladney to see you]

and I think we know who the utah fan is.

[littlecoyotecoin]

If Jimmer succeeds, it will be worthy of an HBO documentary starting from his BYU days to his downfall in his first years in the nba, to his resurgence as Spurs' top scorer

Starring Tim Tebow as Jimmer Fredette.

[Spurtacular]

There's a lot of drama here.... make or break for Jimmer. If he can't cut it with the Spurs, he can't cut it anywhere in the NBA.

I'm rooting for him to succeed. Of course, I like every player in the current Spurs lineup and hope they all exceed expectations.

I think there were times that Jimmer would have fit well with the Jazz, Celtics and Knicks among others. I don't know if this is the best opportunity he could have gotten, but at least he's finally not going into an unhealthy situation.

[dweaver99027]

I go on record predicting that Jimmer will crack the reg season rotation, if only because of rest/injuries. I'm rooting for him, I have a soft spot for unathletic white scorers, as I was one back when I was trying to make basketball my paying profession.

[Spurtacular]

If Jimmer succeeds here, it will be a boon for Spurs free agency efforts in the future for players with high potential that are flailing out of the league and sign on the cheap. It can't hurt to have a rep as the place to go to save your career.

Or 30 for 30 or whatever Bill Simmons start-up.

[Spurtacular]

I go on record predicting that Jimmer will crack the reg season rotation, if only because of rest/injuries. I'm rooting for him, I have a soft spot for unathletic white scorers, as I was one back when I was trying to make basketball my paying profession.

I strongly suspect he will. But I know it's not a sure thing. He tends to light it up in games he plays 20 minutes or more.

[dweaver99027]

I strongly suspect he will. But I know it's not a sure thing. He tends to light it up in games he plays 20 minutes or more. Pop has shown he will ride the hot hand when appropriate, defense be damned. Vinny D and Neal got serious minutes in high stakes games and more often than not it worked ( shoeless game notwithstanding ).

[exstatic]

I go on record predicting that Jimmer will crack the reg season rotation, if only because of rest/injuries. I'm rooting for him, I have a soft spot for unathletic white scorers, as I was one back when I was trying to make basketball my paying profession.

If he's only playing because of rest/injury, then he's not a rotation player, he's Baynes season one or two.

[dweaver99027]

If he's only playing because of rest/injury, then he's not a rotation player, he's Baynes season one or two. If he's being trusted with playing time when there is a need for whatever reason, it's good enough to be considered such by me. Cory was technically not a rotation player either, but he was entrusted with key workload. Semantics, definitions, etc ...

[exstatic]

If he's being trusted with playing time when there is a need for whatever reason, it's good enough to be considered such by me. Cory was technically not a rotation player either, but he was entrusted with key workload. Semantics, definitions, etc ...

The definition of rotation player on most teams is 7-8 guys. On the Spurs, it's more like 10 guys, because they're pretty generous at spreading regular minutes around, but that still leaves 4-5 players as nothing but filler. Jimmer, if he makes the roster, has no chance to escape that "filler" box.

Playing minutes doesn't put you in the rotation. Playing regular, non-garbage minutes every night you suit up and aren't resting does. Don't confuse Pop having expectations and "trusting" you with being in the rotation. He has that for players 1-15. Cory was a "filler" last year for at least half the season. When Patty got well, he went back to his filler spot, along with Ayres, Anderson, Daye/Williams (same roster spot), and Bonner.

[Spurtacular]

The definition of rotation player on most teams is 7-8 guys. On the Spurs, it's more like 10 guys, because they're pretty generous at spreading regular minutes around, but that still leaves 4-5 players as nothing but filler. Jimmer, if he makes the roster, has no chance to escape that "filler" box.

Playing minutes doesn't put you in the rotation. Playing regular, non-garbage minutes every night you suit up and aren't resting does. Don't confuse Pop having expectations and "trusting" you with being in the rotation. He has that for players 1-15. Cory was a "filler" last year for at least half the season. When Patty got well, he went back to his filler spot, along with Ayres, Anderson, Daye/Williams (same roster spot), and Bonner.

Reality is there are semi-rotation minutes on every team...

And 7-9 guy rotations is for the playoffs. Regular season, teams typically go ten or more deep consistently.

[exstatic]

Reality is there are semi-rotation minutes on every team...

And 7-9 guy rotations is for the playoffs. Regular season, teams typically go ten or more deep consistently.

You must not watch much Thunder or Trailblazer ball. I also think we still are talking past each other.

When I say a typical rotation is 7-8 guys, I'm talking guys who play meaninigful minutes every night that they are active, without fail. If they're dressed in uniform, they will NEVER get a DNP-CD. Those are your rotation guys. That's the reason there is a rotation designation, as opposed to guys who only play to cover rest, injuries, or garbage time. Most teams it's 8 guys, Spurs go 10 deep. Even that won't help Jimmer.

[Spurtacular]

You must not watch much Thunder or Trailblazer ball. I also think we still are talking past each other.

When I say a typical rotation is 7-8 guys, I'm talking guys who play meaninigful minutes every night that they are active, without fail. If they're dressed in uniform, they will NEVER get a DNP-CD. Those are your rotation guys. That's the reason there is a rotation designation, as opposed to guys who only play to cover rest, injuries, or garbage time. Most teams it's 8 guys, Spurs go 10 deep. Even that won't help Jimmer.

Blazers...maybe. Thunder....no. They had semi-rotation players.

Look, there's exceptions to every rule. But the point is that semi-rotation players are a strong reality in the NBA.

And no, few teams if any are rolling with only 8 before the playoffs. That's just a formula for tired legs and a first or second round loss. The Blazers did it in 2014, and the Spurs wiped the floor with their asses.

[exstatic]

Blazers...maybe. Thunder....no. They had semi-rotation players.

Look, there's exceptions to every rule. But the point is that semi-rotation players are a strong reality in the NBA.

And no, few teams if any are rolling with only 8 before the playoffs. That's just a formula for tired legs and a first or second round loss. The Blazers did it in 2014, and the Spurs wiped the floor with their asses.

See, your not talking rotation, only some subgroup of players called semi-rotation. Someone flat out said that he would make the rotation. He will not. He will struggle to make the 15 man roster. If he does that, he will struggle to be one of the active 12 man roster on any given night. Expect to see him model many suits this year, if he sticks at all.

[dweaver99027]

The definition of rotation player on most teams is 7-8 guys. On the Spurs, it's more like 10 guys, because they're pretty generous at spreading regular minutes around, but that still leaves 4-5 players as nothing but filler. Jimmer, if he makes the roster, has no chance to escape that "filler" box. Playing minutes doesn't put you in the rotation. Playing regular, non-garbage minutes every night you suit up and aren't resting does. Don't confuse Pop having expectations and "trusting" you with being in the rotation. He has that for players 1-15. Cory was a "filler" last year for at least half the season. When Patty got well, he went back to his filler spot, along with Ayres, Anderson, Daye/Williams (same roster spot), and Bonner. As I already said, ' semantics , definitions, etc ...' . Will he beat Patty for backup PG? Will he get the Marco role? Probably not, but not impossible. Jimmer offering to the Spurs the same level of play Cory did last year will be a huge boost even if he is used with only the same frequency as Cory. 'Rotation-Caliber Player'. There.

[Spurtacular]

See, your not talking rotation, only some subgroup of players called semi-rotation. Someone flat out said that he would make the rotation. He will not. He will struggle to make the 15 man roster. If he does that, he will struggle to be one of the active 12 man roster on any given night. Expect to see him model many suits this year, if he sticks at all.

I've talked rotation. I've talked semi-rotation. I've never "flat out said" Jimmer would be a rotation player. As one poster said, CoJo was a semi-rotation player (rotation player during injuries as well). These are realities in NBA basketball. There's fluctuation.

[ChumpDumper]

lol semi-rotation.

The hits just keep coming.

[look_at_g_shred]

Oh shit 50 pages? Where da fuck have I been? lol

[Gladney to see you]

Jimmer has made this summer interesting so make the team or not he will always be a Spur to me.

[Gladney to see you]

I will say that 95% from the line is a good enough resume to make a team especially for a 15? Man, especially in the western conference where every point is at a premium. He can do it cold too. Just saying

[Proxy]

Maybe Jimmer will make the part-time, semi-semi rotation. One can hope.

[AFBlue]

See, your not talking rotation, only some subgroup of players called semi-rotation. Someone flat out said that he would make the rotation. He will not. He will struggle to make the 15 man roster. If he does that, he will struggle to be one of the active 12 man roster on any given night. Expect to see him model many suits this year, if he sticks at all.

I said he would. I'm not backing down from it either. He's the closest thing they have to Beli, and they'll want to save Ginobili's legs over the long season. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm probably the only one that's not patently dismissive of the possibility.

[playbonner15]

WE DID IT ST! 50 PAGES FOR THIS SCRUB!! :lol:downspin:

[Kool Bob Love]

Only posting because I wanted a spot on 50.

[ismael-robert]

Wow must be off season let this horse die...but if we're gonna keep it going then I'll plug my abandon the inactive player list agenda here. If yall missed my thread I'm proposing a rule change that if a player is healthy he can suit up...no more business suits necessary. Every night the 15 man has opportunity to play. With current economy and Spurs able to put a deep enough team together that fans wanna see every player every night, at least this year when we will hopefully have many blowouts. Jimmer n Bonner can have many chances to play with abandoning this rule.

[Trainwreck2100]

im at a differe post per page so I'm only at 30

[Spur|n|Austin]

im at a differe post per page so I'm only at 30

[spurraider21]

how does a jimmer thread get to 50 pages? thank the top posters

https://i.gyazo.com/e5cc2395c2f73705b4e6695e43c90f27.png

[Gladney to see you]

Outing is a hate crime.

[playbonner15]

Can this thread get to 60?

[playbonner15]

Rollin for 60

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

how does a jimmer thread get to 50 pages? thank the top posters

https://i.gyazo.com/e5cc2395c2f73705b4e6695e43c90f27.png

Got to say, I'm glad I'm not on this list. Wow, 50 pages. Kings were hoping that Jimmer became a fan favorite in Sac Town. Looks like he already is in SA. San Antonio, Sweet Sacramento connection.

[spurraider21]

yeah, there are 30 posts per page, so thank Spurtacular for contributing over 7 pages on his own, with ceperez adding another 5+

[Aztecfan03]

yeah, there are 30 posts per page, so thank Spurtacular for contributing over 7 pages on his own, with ceperez adding another 5+
And more than one page of kawhi2016fmvp screaming about how bad Jimmer is.

[snickles]

*

* thread.

yeah, its 50 pages, but due to the long offseason and posters posting meaningless threads, its not as valid as the other 50 page threads


*****

/duck

[Spurtacular]

I will say that 95% from the line is a good enough resume to make a team especially for a 15? Man, especially in the western conference where every point is at a premium. He can do it cold too. Just saying

Could've used that at the end of 2013.

[RayTdropout]

Hes not even making the team

[Spurtacular]

Hes not even making the team

Grow a pair, Apasolic; and use your main screen name to claim this.

[AFBlue]

Hes not even making the team

Guaranteed money says otherwise. Be more well-informed.

[Spurtacular]

I said he would. I'm not backing down from it either. He's the closest thing they have to Beli, and they'll want to save Ginobili's legs over the long season. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm probably the only one that's not patently dismissive of the possibility.

I believe that Jimmer can be more than an end of the bench guy. But if he has to work hard and wait for his chance, then that's how it goes. He did that in Sacramento. He killed it in games he started, and then the dysfunction set in and he was rewarded for it by being completely taken out of the rotation for lesser players.

[spurraider21]

214 of your 988 posts have been in this thread. get over it :lol

[Spurtacular]

214 of your 988 posts have been in this thread. get over it :lol

Get over what exactly?

[spurraider21]

Get over what exactly?
jimmer

[Spurtacular]

Jimmer

What exactly are you worried about here?

[spurraider21]

your mental health

[Spurtacular]

your mental health

Eat a Snickers, bro.

[exstatic]

Get over what exactly?

Your mancrush?

[Snickers]

Eat a Snickers, bro.

:tu

[daledondale]

:tu
:lol

[buttsR4rebounding]

Starring Tim Tebow as Jimmer Fredette.

:lol

[buttsR4rebounding]

Hes not even making the team

IMO he makes the initial roster and gets spot minutes here and there to prove what he can do. Depending on his performance then either gets cut, is part of a trade package, or gets his contract guaranteed the rest of the year. He was guaranteed $500,000. The Spurs aren't in the habit of guaranteeing that much to someone who is training camp fodder.

[ceperez]

IMO he makes the initial roster and gets spot minutes here and there to prove what he can do. Depending on his performance then either gets cut, is part of a trade package, or gets his contract guaranteed the rest of the year. He was guaranteed $500,000. The Spurs aren't in the habit of guaranteeing that much to someone who is training camp fodder.

The $500,000 question is who will they waive come January? Bonner or Jimmer?

[ChumpDumper]

The $500,000 question is who will they waive come January? Bonner or Jimmer?They could trade both before then.

[baseline bum]

So is Jimmer this year's Eddy Curry?

[SAGirl]

I am actually rooting some for Jimmer. He's younger and could possibly see a renaissance in his career to a scorer role when resting guys or covering for injuries. Bonner on the other hand is done. He is old and unlike the other old guys in the team, he was already limited to begin with, so his shooting 36.5% last year was awful when that was his one NBA talent. I think he's a cool nice guy who will take being waived in stride if his shooting doesn't come back. Jimmer on the other hand should be hungry and looking to have a better year.

[Uriel]

Why the fuck do we have a 51-page thread on a player who won't even make the team?

[Bruno]

I would say there is something like a 90% odd that Fredette stay with the team after training camp. Even if he sucks, Spurs will likely keep him because it's cheaper to keep him than to waive him:
If Fredette is cut at the end of training camp, Spurs will have to give him his guaranteed salary and will have to pay $750K in luxury tax on it at the end of the season. The cost cutting move would be to keep him until December 15th and then trade him (he can't be traded before). The trade would be Fredette and cash for the usual top 55 protected pick to a team well below the tax with an open roster spot. The cash needed to make the trade would be what's remain on Fredette guaranteed contract and about $200K as incentive for the other team to do the trade. At the end, Spurs would save $550K with that move.

I'm putting odds at 90% because Fredette might be waived if Spurs need a roster spot. This spot could be needed if an non-guaranteed player shine at the training camp, if Spurs do a trade with Williams contract or if Spurs want to sign a player waived by another team. These 3 possibilities seem unlikely to me. Fredette odds at making the roster might drop a little if Spurs add quality player(s) like Rasual Butler and/or Deshaun Thomas to the training camp but it won't go lower than, let's say, 70%.

[Chinook]

I would say there is something like a 90% odd that Fredette stay with the team after training camp. Even if he sucks, Spurs will likely keep him because it's cheaper to keep him than to waive him:
If Fredette is cut at the end of training camp, Spurs will have to give him his guaranteed salary and will have to pay $750K in luxury tax on it at the end of the season. The cost cutting move would be to keep him until December 15th and then trade him (he can't be traded before). The trade would be Fredette and cash for the usual top 55 protected pick to a team well below the tax with an open roster spot. The cash needed to make the trade would be what's remain on Fredette guaranteed contract and about $200K as incentive for the other team to do the trade. At the end, Spurs would save $550K with that move.

I'm putting odds at 90% because Fredette might be waived if Spurs need a roster spot. This spot could be needed if an non-guaranteed player shine at the training camp, if Spurs do a trade with Williams contract or if Spurs want to sign a player waived by another team. These 3 possibilities seem unlikely to me. Fredette odds at making the roster might drop a little if Spurs add quality player(s) like Rasual Butler and/or Deshaun Thomas to the training camp but it won't go lower than, let's say, 70%.

Eh, someone may well claim Fredette if he gets waived, in which case the Spurs owe him nothing. I'm sure the Spurs would "shop" him in this way (asking teams if they'd claim him) as part of the process of doing this move. I don't think the money would be a sticking point for ANY of the Spurs' cheap guaranteed guys.

I think Jimmer makes the cut mind you. But his salary guarantees him nothing.