Jimmer Fredette to the Spurs (Update: Mostly Non-Guaranteed Training Camp Deal)

[Spursmania]

60 pages?:lol

[Spurtacular]

LMAO, Norris Cole got Jimmer demoted when he arrive in New Orleans & took his job the moment he stepped into the locker-room. Jimmer makes Mario seem like the next coming of John Stockton.

Apalisoc_9; if you want to talk sh** directly, at least do me the honor of doing it on your real screen name. Mmmmkay.

[Gladney to see you]

I think these Jimmer threads are just as much about the haters as they are the fans. If he shows he can help the team I will try to become a fan. Right now other than 95% free throws I can't find anything.

[spurraider21]

White dudes trying to hype up a white scrub..And an American at that :lol

White Americans playing basketball :lmao


SMDH 60 pages because this nigga is white..

:lol
:lol nobody taking your bait

[Kawhitstorm]

Apalisoc_9; if you want to talk sh** directly, at least do me the honor of doing it on your real screen name. Mmmmkay.

If you want to secretly suck Jimmer's dick just say it.

[Spurtacular]

If you want to secretly suck Jimmer's dick just say it.

If you want to take me on, use your real screen name, faggot.

[Spurtacular]

the difference is, I care if spurs win, not if ray mccallum scores more than (insert player). The other way, your way, is city ball. You probably find no fault with giving up offensive rebounds as long as your same guy scores, and I'm sure you root for your favorite player to score more rather than defend better. Enjoy your NBA LIVE

kawhitstorm is player fan apalisoc_9 's latest sock. Nigga ain't no Spurs fan.

[Kawhitstorm]

If you want to take me on, use your real screen name, faggot.

Someone has their panties in a bunch.........:lmao

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

60 pages and counting......

Jimmer mania.

[benefactor]

60 pages?:lol

Most of it is one poster tbh

[hater]

Has this loser finished scrubbing the locker rooms toilets yet?

[HarlemHeat37]

Has this loser finished scrubbing the locker rooms toilets yet?

:lol

[cd98]

Has this loser finished scrubbing the locker rooms toilets yet?

A cool million to scrub toilets, sign me up.

[Spurtacular]

Most of it is one poster tbh

Sniffle.

[hater]

Chris Quinn >>>>>>> this scub

[benefactor]

Sniffle.
Shit, have at it man. I've been through James White(!), James Gist, Malik Hairston, Pops Mensah Bonsu and Eddy Curry in this place. There have been posters that dickrided a lot harder than you do and melted down just as hard when said players got cut. I wait for your meltdown with great anticipation. I sure it will deliver the goods.

[monkeypunk]

Apalisoc_9; if you want to talk sh** directly, at least do me the honor of doing it on your real screen name. Mmmmkay.

So with your Mormonism, if you win, you get a whole universe that you are the god of.

What happens if you lose? Is it an eternity of Kawhi dragging his ballsack across Jimmers face?

Honestly, just curious...

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

646427234056540160

[SPURt]

646427234056540160
It's happening!

[BatManu20]

Jimmer Time. Is he wearing #16 or 18?

[monkeypunk]

646427234056540160

Please keep me on the team, Joseph Smith. You're my only hope...

[benefactor]

646427234056540160

Please keep me on the team, Joseph Smith. You're my only hope...
:lol

[Spurtacular]

Shit, have at it man. I've been through James White(!), James Gist, Malik Hairston, Pops Mensah Bonsu and Eddy Curry in this place. There have been posters that dickrided a lot harder than you do and melted down just as hard when said players got cut. I wait for your meltdown with great anticipation. I sure it will deliver the goods.

:lol Fair enough.

[timtonymanu]

Reggie Williams >>>>> Fredette

[Spurtacular]

Reggie Williams >>>>> Fredette

Just like he's Harden Jr, right?

Williams sucked.

[Darius Bieber]

Jimmer Time. Is he wearing #16 or 18?

It's 16. The Spurs' 8 looks different than what he is wearing:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/teamsites/images/legacy/spurs/140106_mills_generic.jpg?1389041131


While the Six is more of a "boxy" loop:

http://cdn1.bloguin.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/27/2014/07/aron-baynes-300x356.jpg

[Gladney to see you]

Jimmer was ranked #394 out of 400 players last year according to ESPN

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13710146/nba-nbarank-players-ranked-nos-301-400

[benfti]

Jimmer was ranked #394 out of 400 players last year according to ESPN

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13710146/nba-nbarank-players-ranked-nos-301-400


Thats slightly higher than I expected

[timtonymanu]

Jimmer was ranked #394 out of 400 players last year according to ESPN

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/13710146/nba-nbarank-players-ranked-nos-301-400

:lol 61 pages for a top 395 player in the league.

[Spurtacular]

:lol 61 pages for a top 395 player in the league.

Whereever Mills was ranked, that's realistically about where Jimmer should be ranked.

[rastaspur]

Whereever Mills was ranked, that's realistically about where Jimmer should be ranked.

Put the pipe down. Bummer hasn't proven anything on the NBA level. Stop this ifs and buts shit. It's on him. I hope he proves me wrong.

Mills has proven to be a gamer on the biggest stage in the world. To compare the two is a complete insult to Patty.

[Spurtacular]

Put the pipe down. Bummer hasn't proven anything on the NBA level. Stop this ifs and buts shit. It's on him. I hope he proves me wrong.

Mills has proven to be a gamer on the biggest stage in the world. To compare the two is a complete insult to Patty.

Mills has been in good situations and continued his progress in a great organization. Jimmer has been in dysfunctional situations. Yet the two have very comparable per36's.

[rastaspur]

Sacramento - clearly dysfunctional. The textbook definition

Chicago - dysfunctional is a stretch.

Pelicans - a young team which made the playoffs. Dysfunctional would be exaggerating as well.

I am rooting for him. It's a calculated low risk move, but the odds of success are low

[apalisoc_9]

:lol 61 pages for a top 395 player in the league.

IKR

:lol

[spurraider21]

Jesus, 59 pages for a borderline NBA scrub:lol..ohhhh, the love non-Black basketball players receive and the false hope they produce, so adorable..
has anybody taken the bait on the "lol white american" thing yet?

[Spurtacular]

Sacramento - clearly dysfunctional. The textbook definition

Chicago - dysfunctional is a stretch.

Pelicans - a young team which made the playoffs. Dysfunctional would be exaggerating as well.

I am rooting for him. It's a calculated low risk move, but the odds of success are low

Kings were the poster child for dysfunctional.

Bulls never committed to Jimmer; he came in late; that's okay, I suppose.

Pelicans made the playoffs; but that doesn't mean they weren't dysfunctional. Losing that 20 plus point lead in the playoff game vs. the Warriors came as no shock to me. Take AD from that team, and they would have been a train wreck. From Jimmer's p.o.v. Monty was kind of a tool. He pulled him after any turnover or missed shot; and when he played well, he was not rewarded with more PT. It was not a good fit whether you want to call it dysfunctional or not.

....

Depends on what you consider success. I think the odds of Jimmer being a significant contributor are somewhat high. If we're talking about really burning rubber and rising in the ranks; well, I temper my outlook.

[HarlemHeat37]

has anybody taken the bait on the "lol white american" thing yet?

Considering I've been saying it for years, yes, there have been many discussions regarding that topic..

[kobyz]

First time in this thread, didn't read, a little summary?

[benfti]

Whereever Mills was ranked, that's realistically about where Jimmer should be ranked.

Let me paint it for you in ways other than what's already been mentioned.

Jimmer has one decernable NBA skill, outside shooting, however, his release is horribly slow, which forced most of his shots in a team that didn't space very well to be found out to the point that he shot 18 friggen percent from three.

Lets play devils advocate for a moment and assume Pop spaces the floor better for him and Chip fixes his release timing, and he bumps it back up to 35 this year. Cool.

now compare that to Patty.

Now our mate has two decernable NBA skills, his shooting, and elite level NBA speed. The speed affords him the ability to play pesky defence get steals and get open himself without the heavily reliance on spacing that JF needs, and at his worst he is going to give you that same 35 that Jimmer gives you assuming a lot goes his way. Plus mills is a better passer and a better ball handler.

to suggest that Jimsey is currently the same level of NBA player as Mills really makes you look stupid dude.

[K...]

First time in this thread, didn't read, a little summary?

There is one poster who keeps this thread up and a rotating cast of people saying "jimmer really? Wtf?" along with "Mormon supremacists" being thrown around.

You just saw Mills being = jimmer stated as argument. That's pretty par for the level of discussion in this thread.

[DeRozan m8]

Used Jimmer in 2k today, dude banged down some mad shots tbh

[Brian Windhorst]

He was higher than a certain Spurs PG when they were using numbers and not just pulling arbitrary rankings out of their ass

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/RPM/position/1

[Seventyniner]

If Jimmer ends up making any worthwhile contribution to the Spurs, then something will have gone horribly, horribly wrong.

[spurraider21]

if bonner can survive with a slow release, i dont see why jimmy cant have the same role
because you have slow-footed bigs like zbo trying to close out bonner :lol

[Gladney to see you]

Something can be said for having your last guy getting this reaction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrM-Xpoz1qE

[Spurtacular]

Plus mills is a better passer and a better ball handler.

Untrue.

[benfti]

Untrue.
Please. 2.5 to 1.7 ATR. You on drugs boy.

[benfti]

He was higher than a certain Spurs PG when they were using numbers and not just pulling arbitrary rankings out of their ass

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/RPM/position/1

and Mills was significantly higher than both of them

[tholdren]

Please. 2.5 to 1.7 ATR. You on drugs boy.
Where are you getting these numbers?

These two players are very similar. They are jump shooters who are not afraid to take big shots. Where I find Jimmer's Assist numbers to be low for playing with SAC, I think Mills has a high TO for playing with SA. Either way, they both are averaging PER GAME through their career a little over 1 apg and a little under 1 TOpg.

Shooting stats are similar, though I think Patty has a better shot, I don't know if that would be the case if Jimmer gets in the rotation.

People on here talking about release and shot need to get real. Jimmer is a 38% 3pt shooter on 500 attempts. Release is not a problem. ADDITIONALLY Jimmer is a sub. Do you really think that when/if he gets in the game, the opponent will put their BEST DEFENDER on him? I would say probably not.

[Spurtacular]

Please. 2.5 to 1.7 ATR. You on drugs boy.

:lol. You undoubtedly went over the stats with your magnifying glass; and that's that the best you could come back with.....

And Fredette's TOV's were significantly better than Mills in their first couple years. Then, Mills finally settled into a system and his TOV's went down. Jimmer's never had that luxury...

[ChumpDumper]

Man, Mormons are a tenacious lot.

[monkeypunk]

Man, Mormons are a tenacious lot.

:lol

[benefactor]

Man, Mormons are a tenacious lot.
All that time defending the religion tbh

[ChumpDumper]

All that time defending the religion tbhI figure they would be exhausted from keeping blacks out of the church for so long.

[rasuo214]

why doesnt he play pest defense like mills?

Jimmer sucks on defense. His teammates had to cover for him when he was at BYU.

[Seventyniner]

Man, Mormons are a tenacious lot.

That and building high fertility rates into the religion has served them well.

[cd98]

Jimmer sucks on defense. His teammates had to cover for him when he was at BYU.

Actually, those BYU teams were horrible at defense. They are great offensive teams. But terrible defensively. There round one loss last year in the tournament said it all.

[benfti]

Where are you getting these numbers?

These two players are very similar. They are jump shooters who are not afraid to take big shots. Where I find Jimmer's Assist numbers to be low for playing with SAC, I think Mills has a high TO for playing with SA. Either way, they both are averaging PER GAME through their career a little over 1 apg and a little under 1 TOpg.

Shooting stats are similar, though I think Patty has a better shot, I don't know if that would be the case if Jimmer gets in the rotation.

People on here talking about release and shot need to get real. Jimmer is a 38% 3pt shooter on 500 attempts. Release is not a problem. ADDITIONALLY Jimmer is a sub. Do you really think that when/if he gets in the game, the opponent will put their BEST DEFENDER on him? I would say probably not.

I think Jimmer is probably a better uncontested 3 point shooter than Patty, but what happened this season is teams have all worked out how to play him, just get a hand up, you dont need to force him deeper.

[benfti]

:lol. You undoubtedly went over the stats with your magnifying glass; and that's that the best you could come back with.....

And Fredette's TOV's were significantly better than Mills in their first couple years. Then, Mills finally settled into a system and his TOV's went down. Jimmer's never had that luxury...

here is another stat I noticed

18% from three


18%



18%


and what is it he can do again?

[Spurtacular]

here is another stat I noticed

18% from three


18%



18%


and what is it he can do again?

I ain't bothered.

[rasuo214]

Actually, those BYU teams were horrible at defense. They are great offensive teams. But terrible defensively. There round one loss last year in the tournament said it all.

well yea, teams usually aren't good when it's 4 on 5. People like to criticize Parker's defense but Jimmer makes Parker look like a DPOY candidate.

[Spurtacular]

well yea, teams usually aren't good when it's 4 on 5. People like to criticize Parker's defense but Jimmer makes Parker look like a DPOY candidate.

Calm down.

[rasuo214]

Calm down.

over what?

[spurraider21]

Calm down.


over what?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZWQ3YOMtJaM/UEsnJKgjdkI/AAAAAAAACo0/miO-N7XEaFA/s320/black-kid-oh-snap.gif

[benfti]

Calm down.

indeed, all NBA defensive second team. https://2ecffd01e1ab3e9383f0-07db7b9624bbdf022e3b5395236d5cf8.ssl.cf4.rackcdn.c om/Product-800x800/3b569d1d-cf73-4856-9963-c71a332b3445.jpg

then Parker


then Jimmer

[tholdren]

here is another stat I noticed

18% from three


18%



18%


and what is it he can do again?

lol you took his worst year, with least amount of 3s taken. Do you understand the terms valid or reliable? This is the problem with "stat-warriors." You should have stopped after he was 0-1 last year and said he was a 0% shooter.

#takeastatsclass

[Gladney to see you]

If Jimmer is confident he can be a great player and have no slow release issues. If he has no JIMMERMANIA left in him...stick a fork in the guy and let the summer diversion be gone. He will probably end up a coach here. sounds like a super guy.

[Spurtacular]

lol you took his worst year, with least amount of 3s taken. Do you understand the terms valid or reliable? This is the problem with "stat-warriors." You should have stopped after he was 0-1 last year and said he was a 0% shooter.

#takeastatsclass

It was a bad year; and if Jimmer plays like that for the Spurs, he'll find himself out of a job. Something happened in NOL. I don't know if it was mental, emotional, maybe even physical. They did some stuff to screw with his mindset. I've never seen Jimmer pushing/aiming/lunging on threes like that before last season. But I've watched the offseason shooting drill vids, and he seems to have regained his form.

[Gladney to see you]

It was a bad year; and if Jimmer plays like that for the Spurs, he'll find himself out of a job. Something happened in NOL. I don't know if it was mental, emotional, maybe even physical. They did some stuff to screw with his mindset. I've never seen Jimmer pushing/aiming/lunging on threes like that before last season. But I've watched the offseason shooting drill vids, and he seems to have regained his form.

Wasn't Monty williams Rivers god father or something? May have been a family thing. That or the Pelicans have some great individual talent, but they aren't team players. Kind of a talented Sacramento.

[Spurtacular]

Wasn't Monty williams Rivers god father or something? May have been a family thing. That or the Pelicans have some great individual talent, but they aren't team players. Kind of a talented Sacramento.

If that's true, that's a significant conflict of interest.

[jeebus]

C'mon kids, 150 more posts til 2000. can you faggots do it before the preseason opener??

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

So you guys think he's gonna play rotation minutes or what

[Spur-Addict]

Rasual Butler will be in training camp.

[monkeypunk]

Rasual Butler will be in training camp.

Jimmer just got Rasualed...

[Chinook]

I like Butler a lot over Jimmer unless Simmons' playmaking was just a product of playing against weaker competition. Had the Spurs managed to get Fredette to sign a two-year deal, I'd give him the edge. But Butler likely helps the team more as a 12th or 15th man than Jimmer would as a wing. And Simmons' size, athleticism and defensive potential put him above Jimmer as a combo-guard/fifth PG.

[Spurtacular]

So you guys think he's gonna play rotation minutes or what

Some have made the case for Jimmer taking the Beli minutes. But I don't know about that if KA/Simmons come on strong. If they struggle, then maybe.

He'll get some minutes backing up Green at times. And I think he'll get significant minutes whenever Parker/Ginobili are out.

Whether Jimmer gets regular rotation minutes, most would say no. I would say no, too (at least initially). I would like to see a natural progression though. And the fun of Jimmer is that he can have a big game anytime.

[Spurtacular]

Jimmer just got Rasualed...

Rasual sucks; and you know it.

[Spurtacular]

I like Butler a lot over Jimmer unless Simmons' playmaking was just a product of playing against weaker competition. Had the Spurs managed to get Fredette to sign a two-year deal, I'd give him the edge. But Butler likely helps the team more as a 12th or 15th man than Jimmer would as a wing. And Simmons' size, athleticism and defensive potential put him above Jimmer as a combo-guard/fifth PG.

Rasual's washed up. Why do you think he's signing so late to a camp deal on a stacked team? He's just trying to stay in shape / audition for other teams.

[Chinook]

Rasual's washed up. Why do you think he's signing so late to a camp deal on a stacked team? He's just trying to stay in shape / audition for other teams.

He's less washed up than Jimmer.

[Spurtacular]

He's less washed up than Jimmer.

You're just showing how glaring your bias against Jimmer is.

Rasual Butler is thirty f'ing six years old. He does one thing: he stands in a corner and shoots threes. You really think that's gonna be enough to displace Jimmer?

[Chinook]

You're just showing how glaring your bias against Jimmer is.

Rasual Butler is thirty f'ing six years old. He does one thing: he stands in a corner and shoots threes. You really think that's gonna be enough to displace Jimmer?

First, that's better than Jimmer can do with that release of his. Second, Butler's actually pretty damned athletic for his age. The only thing Jimmer has over Butler is some playmaking, and that's not really that unique, as all guards besides Green are decent or better in that regard.

[Spurtacular]

First, that's better than Jimmer can do with that release of his. Second, Butler's actually pretty damned athletic for his age. The only thing Jimmer has over Butler is some playmaking, and that's not really that unique, as all guards besides Green are decent or better in that regard.

Jimmer spaces the floor better than Rasual. Teams have to stick to Jimmer. The release is trumped up nonsense too. Jimmer averaged seven three attempts per 36 his rookie year on a team that liked to ice him out. So, no.

[Kawhitstorm]

Jimmer spaces the floor better than Rasual. Teams have to stick to Jimmer. The release is trumped up nonsense too. Jimmer averaged seven three attempts per 36 his rookie year on a team that liked to ice him out. So, no.

Cry me a river, bye bitch.

[Chinook]

Jimmer spaces the floor better than Rasual. Teams have to stick to Jimmer. The release is trumped up nonsense too. Jimmer averaged seven three attempts per 36 his rookie year on a team that liked to ice him out. So, no.

It's been well established that you have no idea what spacing the floor is. It's certainly not chucking up threes. Anyway, the fact is that Jimmer has taken only 14 percent of his threes from the corner. That's a pathetically low number for a floor-spacer. It's not that threes from the wings don't count as spacing the floor -- indeed, it spaces the floor more to spot up away from the corner. It's that Jimmer can't get open on those shorter threes. That he can't shoot from the corner is worse than if he couldn't shoot from anywhere else, as the corner three is an easier pass and is open more often on plays.

Anyway, even if we were to assert that three-point attempts = spacing, your claim that Jimmer is somehow a much more prolific gunner than Butler is silly. Jimmer, at his best, for 6.9 threes per 36. Last year, Butler shot 5.6 threes. Jimmer had 14.7 ppg to Butler's 13.9. Jimmer's point's came with a poor 49.5 TS%, while Butler's came on a 53.1 TS%. It's pretty obvious Butler's is a better three-point shooter than Fredette if you on Jimmer's peak year against Butler's most recent.

It's just pathetic that you can't see numbers in front of your face. Jimmer hasn't been a good NBA player. He was frozen out of anything. He just sucks. Deal with it. He has to deal with it too, as he's not going to be long for the league if he can't get better than he has been.

[Spurtacular]

It's been well established that you have no idea what spacing the floor is.

Calm down.

[Spurtacular]

Anyway, the fact is that Jimmer has taken only 14 percent of his threes from the corner.

OR, it shows that he's played on selfish teams that don't make the extra pass; something I've repeatedly stated.

Also, spacing the floor doesn't always just mean standing a corner.

[Spurtacular]

He was (not) frozen out of anything. He just sucks. Deal with it. He has to deal with it too, as he's not going to be long for the league if he can't get better than he has been.

Don't act like you know what you're talking about. I followed him; you didn't.

[Chinook]

Calm down.

I am calm. I was merely stating a fact.


OR, it shows that he's played on selfish teams that don't make the extra pass; something I've repeatedly stated.

Yeah, no. He was assisted on 62 percent of his threes. That is indeed a stupidly no number (which if you watch any video of him, you understand that it's because he can't get his shot off if he spots up). But it's a high enough number to show that his teammates do give him the ball. He just has no hope of shooting of the catch from the corner unless he's WIDE OPEN, like his-man-fell-down open.

[K...]

Calm down.

Lmao he refutes your entire shtick and you go calm down. You can't walk away from this thread if jimmer gets cut. You must own it

[Chinook]

Don't act like you know what you're talking about. I followed him; you didn't.

Hence my conclusion that you don't actually know what you're talking about. You watched him, and you're still trying to say he spaced. the floor. It'd be like you trying to tell us the sun rotates around the Earth and that you know that because you've looked at the sun every day of your life.

[Spurtacular]

I am calm. I was merely stating a fact.



Yeah, no. He was assisted on 62 percent of his threes. That is indeed a stupidly no number (which if you watch any video of him, you understand that it's because he can't get his shot off if he spots up). But it's a high enough number to show that his teammates do give him the ball. He just has no hope of shooting of the catch from the corner unless he's WIDE OPEN, like his-man-fell-down open.

Your analsysis is based upon assumptions. Mine is based upon observations.

[Spurtacular]

Hence my conclusion that you don't actually know what you're talking about. You watched him, and you're still trying to say he spaced. the floor. It'd be like you trying to tell us the sun rotates around the Earth and that you know that because you've looked at the sun every day of your life.

Jimmer spaces the floor. Only a moron would argue otherwise.

[Chinook]

Your analsysis is based upon assumptions. Mine is based upon observations.


Jimmer spaces the floor. Only a moron would argue otherwise.

I don't think I've ever seen a poster fall as steeply has you have in this thread. You're taking out loans in order to stay in on this "Jimmer doesn't suck" position. You've offered no points and clearly don't even know what points you'd need in the first place. But you have a wolf by the ears and can't back out. I get it. But that doesn't make it worth taking your arguments seriously anymore.

[Spurtacular]

I don't think I've ever seen a poster fall as steeply has you have in this thread. You're taking out loans in order to stay in on this "Jimmer doesn't suck" position. You've offered no points and clearly don't even know what points you'd need in the first place. But you have a wolf by the ears and can't back out. I get it. But that doesn't make it worth taking your arguments seriously anymore.

I don't think you have to go back all that many posts (to the question of whether Jimmer will be a rotation player) to see how tempered my analysis is. One doesn't have to be a Jimmer fan to get that the the dude spreads the floor. And only a hater would even dare to spout that nonsense. I'm not sure you're even taking yourself "seriously" at this point.

[Chinook]

I don't think you have to go back all that many posts (to the question of whether Jimmer will be a rotation player) to see how tempered my analysis is. One doesn't have to be a Jimmer fan to get that the the dude spreads the floor. And only a hater would even dare to spout that nonsense. I'm not sure you're even taking yourself "seriously" at this point.

Yeah, you see, you're totally just shelling at this point. There is no evidence out there that supports your claim, but you have too much e-cred or whatever to lose for you to admit that. Instead, you're on "Of course I'm right." And it's just silly. If I were you, I'd lie low for a while or make a new handle or something. This thread as completely devoured you.

[Spurtacular]

Yeah, you see, you're totally just shelling at this point. There is no evidence out there that supports your claim, but you have too much e-cred or whatever to lose for you to admit that. Instead, you're on "Of course I'm right." And it's just silly. If I were you, I'd lie low for a while or make a new handle or something. This thread as completely devoured you.

Jimmer has led the league in deep three shooting; he's been in the upper perecentiles in pick n' roll offense; and you're trying to make a claim that he doesn't spread the floor based upon silly assumptions that you invented today. I guess I shouldn't have "shelled" your faux point and pointed out these glaring realities; how bad of me!

[spurraider21]

Jimmer spaces the floor poorly. Only a mormon would argue otherwise.

[benefactor]

Jimmer has led the league in deep three shooting; he's been in the upper perecentiles in pick n' roll offense; and you're trying to make a claim that he doesn't spread the floor based upon silly assumptions that you invented today. I guess I shouldn't have "shelled" your faux point and pointed out these glaring realities; how bad of me!
Just stop. You've been given the McGrady on Bradley treatment many times over.

[Chinook]

Jimmer has led the league in deep three shooting;

That's not a good thing.


he's been in the upper perecentiles in pick n' roll offense

Nothing to do with spacing the floor, but I agree he's better off the dribble than some would imply.


you're trying to make a claim that he doesn't spread the floor based upon silly assumptions that you invented today

Lol at claming I invented Jimmer not taking corner threes or him having a poor offensive rating, or any of the other metrics.


I guess I shouldn't have "shelled" your faux point and pointed out these glaring realities

I mean, it wouldn't make you understand what it means to space the floor, that's for sure.


how bad of me!

More like sad of you at this point.

[Spurtacular]

That's not a good thing.

http://nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/image_thumb2.png?w=554&h=541

Exept that it is. The black line is all threes; and the purple line is threes from 25 to 29 feet. You'll notice the 53.7 percent. But you go ahead and keep telling me how Jimmer can't space the floor.

[Spurtacular]

Nothing to do with spacing the floor, but I agree he's better off the dribble than some would imply.


Pick n' roll offense; especially high pick n' roll offense in Jimmer's case creates floor spacing. If you don't get that, then maybe you're not the basketball mind you think you are.

[Chinook]

http://nbcprobasketballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/image_thumb2.png?w=554&h=541

Exept that it is. The black line is all threes; and the purple line is threes from 25 to 29 feet. You'll notice the 53.7 percent. But you go ahead and keep telling me how Jimmer can't space the floor.

The purple line has the same value as the black line. So it literally doesn't matter if he shoots 30-foot shots better than anyone else if he doesn't shoot regular threes better. If anything, it's pretty damning to him that he can shoot so much better on long threes and still not make a dent in his regular three numbers. Also, completely ignoring that 18 percent from last year.

[Chinook]

Pick n' roll offense; especially high pick n' roll offense in Jimmer's case creates floor spacing. If you don't get that, then maybe you're not the basketball mind you think you are.

No. The numbers you cited are for Jimmer as a ball-handler. He's not opening up driving lanes or post-ups by running a PnR. He could be opening up threes for others, but those guys would be spacing the floor, not him. I'm sure Jimmer's gonna be the ball-handler for the Spurs.

[Spurtacular]

The purple line has the same value as the black line. So it literally doesn't matter if he shoots 30-foot shots better than anyone else if he doesn't shoot regular threes better. If anything, it's pretty damning to him that he can shoot so much better on long threes and still not make a dent in his regular three numbers. Also, completely ignoring that 18 percent from last year.

It does matter. If Jimmer's posting up at 28 feet and the defender has to slide out further. You don't think LMA doesn't want that extra space to penetrate the lane or KL doesn' want that extra space on the elbow or Timmy doesn't want the extra room to operate on the low post? Of course it matters. You're just making yourself look foolish at this point.

[Nathan89]

If you got more excited when the greater contract info was released this info should do the opposite. It's not like they are bringing in some scrub to tryout. They are bringing in someone that many on here wanted months ago to fill out the roster. Jimmer still has a chance but he'll have to outplay more people now.

[Spurtacular]

No. The numbers you cited are for Jimmer as a ball-handler. He's not opening up driving lanes or post-ups by running a PnR. He could be opening up threes for others, but those guys would be spacing the floor, not him. I'm sure Jimmer's gonna be the ball-handler for the Spurs.

On Pn'R Jimmer gets into the lane (where he shot great from last season despite his long distance shooting woes) and forces the defense to converge. That in turn opens up space. Seriously, this is basketball 101. You're totally blinded by your Jimmer hate.

[Spurtacular]

If you got more excited when the greater contract info was released this info should do the opposite. It's not like they are bringing in some scrub to tryout. They are bringing in someone that many on here wanted months ago to fill out the roster. Jimmer still has a chance but he'll have to outplay more people now.

Technically. But I don't think Rasual is likely more than a contingency option at this point.

[cd98]

Jimmer is going to have to earn his roster spot, no doubt, but the Spurs didn't need to sign him to a partially guaranteed contract. If they didn't think he could play and spread the floor, they wouldn't have made him an offer. I think they see his skill set as one that can shoot the open jumper and space the floor, regardless of what you conclude from a few clips. Will he be the best floor spacer in the NBA? Probably not. But I think they are fine with him doing an early P n' R and I think they believe he can be a knock down shooter in the spot up. No doubt he has a good touch from range, and if he needed to tweak his form, I'm sure he could.

[Spurtacular]

Jimmer is an untapped gold mine. :lol at all these fools dick riding, Rasual.

http://img.deseretnews.com/images/article/graphic/1296453/1296453.jpg

[ceperez]

Jimmer is an untapped gold mine. :lol at all these fools dick riding, Rasual.

http://img.deseretnews.com/images/article/graphic/1296453/1296453.jpg

Impressive! But you failed to quote his time in New Orleans... which was a disaster.

[Spurtacular]

Impressive! But you failed to quote his time in New Orleans... which was a disaster.

I believe Jimmer's shown what he can do. I'm not concerned with NOL; except to say that his 2 shooting and defense improved while he was there.

[Nathan89]

You've posted those type of number numerous times before tbh. I'm not concern with his offensive contributions like many others on here. If his defense is as bad as Tony he has no place on the team and some were saying that on here. I don't watch him much at all but if that's where he's at he'll be unplayable.

[tholdren]

Oh no. Are we having a Butler vs Fredette argument?. The horror, the horror
The argument should be Butler Versus Anderson/Simmons/Thomas/Williams TBH. Jimmy is a PG/SG and Butler is a SF. Here are the Camp Invites:

Aldridge #12 F
Anderson #1 G/F
Bonner #15 F/C
Butler #18 G/F
Diaw #33 F
Duncan #21 F
Fredette #16 G
Ginobili #20 G
Green #14 G/F
Kawhi #2 F
Boban #40 C
McCallum #3 G
Mills #8 G
Ndoye #35 C
Parker #9 G
Simmons #17 F
Sykes #28 G
Thomas #4 F
West #30 F
Williams #55 F

With that being said, Butler had a NEGATIVE PER last year in the playoffs. I don't know if I would want him over Simmons or Williams. I don't see this as a threat to Fredette's chances to make the team.

[ChumpDumper]

Jimmer is an untapped gold mine. :lol at all these fools dick riding, Rasual.

http://img.deseretnews.com/images/article/graphic/1296453/1296453.jpgCherry-picked Mormon paper stats.

[tholdren]

Cherry-picked Mormon paper stats.

not as bad as the 3% of Butler last year when he had a -3 PER in the playoffs for a decent team.

[Chinook]

It does matter. If Jimmer's posting up at 28 feet and the defender has to slide out further.

No, and this is why it's clear you don't understand spacing. Jimmer shooting from 28 feet is the equivalent of an average shooter shooting from 23 feet. His man can totally help off him and recover. That was obvious last year, but even in his peak years, his guys were all over him whenver he spotted up inside 25 feet. Now, if Mills or Green could shoot from that far that accurately, that would be one thing. But Jimmer shoots that far because he has to -- not because he can. That's why he barely shoots from the corners, because those are the shortest threes and thus the easiest ones to recover from.


On Pn'R Jimmer gets into the lane (where he shot great from last season despite his long distance shooting woes) and forces the defense to converge. That in turn opens up space. Seriously, this is basketball 101. You're totally blinded by your Jimmer hate.

No, no, no. That's not how spacing works. Spacing allows driving lanes to open. Driving lanes don't open space. They force movement and rotations, but that's not spacing. Parker driving didn't create space from Green. Green's shooting created space for Parker's drives. And Parker in turn forced the rotation to get Danny open. Jimmer might be able to force movement by driving, because as you said, he's not bad at it. The issue is that he will need the ball in his hands to do that, and he isn't in line to be a ball-handler.

[ChumpDumper]

not as bad as the 3% of Butler last year when he had a -3 PER in the playoffs for a decent team.You're right -- that's a worse example of cherry picking.

If the Spurs play either of these guys major minutes in the playoffs, they're dead in the water anyway.

[Chinook]

Jimmer is an untapped gold mine. :lol at all these fools dick riding, Rasual.

http://img.deseretnews.com/images/article/graphic/1296453/1296453.jpg

Yes, his Sacramento shooting numbers are pretty good, because despite what you think, he was allowed to hog the ball his time there. When he went to Chicago and NO, he had to play off the ball more (which is why his assisted three rate went from 60 percent in SAC to 75 percent in CHI and 89 percent in NO). As he moved to a spot-up role (like the one he's trying for with the Spurs), his shooting fell apart. That's because he's a poor floor-spacer. He can create his own shot, two- or three-pointer. But that doesn't work in the context of a normal Spurs offense. I guess if Manu is hurt, Jimmer might have a couple of decent rotation games as the backup two. But he's not going to get the ball in the normal rotation, and he doesn't play well off the ball.

[Gladney to see you]

I don't know what to think after so many pages other than he won't be here past Jan probably. Of the highlights I've seen he seemed to do real well with the pick and roll with Cousins and the few times he was on the court with Anthony Davis. I don't think he wants to be a spot up shooter going by what I saw in this thread. Just like I don't think he will ever be willing to put the time in to be a semi-decent defender. I do hope to get a chance to see him play with our best players...JUST to see.

[Seventyniner]

Spacing the floor is mainly about two things: catch-and-shoot accuracy and quickness of release. Both of these determine how close a defender has to stay to the shooter. Jimmer is not good at either of those, so his ability to space the floor will not be good until and unless he improves in both areas. It's not just about 3FG%, especially if you choose to ignore last season and only look at the three before that.

[benfti]

Im changing my mind on the idea of the Jimmer. I think Pop and Chip can get him being a useful piece. talking smack about him being the same as Patty though is bezerk

[tholdren]

Spacing the floor is mainly about two things: catch-and-shoot accuracy and quickness of release. Both of these determine how close a defender has to stay to the shooter. Jimmer is not good at either of those, so his ability to space the floor will not be good until and unless he improves in both areas. It's not just about 3FG%, especially if you choose to ignore last season and only look at the three before that.

I really wish anyone who posts about "release" could go into detail as either a player, or a coach, when release mattered. Kevin Martin says hello

[Spurtacular]

I don't know what to think after so many pages other than he won't be here past Jan probably.

We'll see.

[Seventyniner]

I really wish anyone who posts about "release" could go into detail as either a player, or a coach, when release mattered. Kevin Martin says hello

Matt Bonner says goodbye. If he had that slow of a release as a guard he'd never get a three off. Another way of describing a player's ability to space the floor is "gravity", or how much he pulls defenders towards himself when he doesn't have the ball. The elite players in this category are guys like Korver, Danny, Curry, etc. A slow release allows defenders to sag off more so they can help elsewhere.

[Nathan89]

If I had just read this thread I'd think Jimmer gets blocked on all his three point attempts. If his defense is decent I expect him to make the team.

[rasuo214]

If I had just read this thread I'd think Jimmer gets blocked on all his three point attempts. If his defense is decent I expect him to make the team.

His defense is atrocious. If he isn't hitting 3s at a high rate he isn't worth a roster spot, period.

[Ice009]

His defense is atrocious. If he isn't hitting 3s at a high rate he isn't worth a roster spot, period.

If his defense is that bad, I don't want him. I'm defense first, second, third. I just don't know if I can accept much of a drop off on the defensive end of the court. I want to see the team improve on that end of the court, and it's going to be hard with Tiago being gone, but still, I certainly don't want players who are really bad on that end of the court that can cause the team defense to get worse. That is not something I am interested in seeing at all.

If Parker stinks on the defensive end again this season, then I want to see him benched until he gets his head out of his ass and starts playing even some average defense. TP can play above average defense, I've seen him do it before, so I don't know why he was so poor last season. I don't want to see that horrendous defense I saw from his last season. Same with Patty, I'd like to see him keep improving on that end of the court.

With Ray McCallum, I'm going to be watching how he performs on defense. People keep talking about his shooting, but I'm most interested in his defense. Hopefully he has some potential on that end of the court and can use some of his athleticism to become a decent defender. Same with Simmons, I'm really interested in his defensive potential to go along with his slashing to the basket.

[Gladney to see you]

Jimmer spaces the floor whether he shoots quickly or not. Offense isn't an issue in the least IMO. It is his defense. Coaches can't put him on the floor because he gets Pick and rolled every time. That being said, if he makes the team Vinnie Del Negro will be off the hook.

[Spurtacular]

“He's a shooter,” Popovich said about Fredette. “He's a scorer, and we're looking for that type of thing to add to the team. People always look at the big guys. But we started last season thinking that not having Patty Mills is going to be a big factor for us. And it was huge. First of all you don't have him for the first half, and then it took him a long time to get back into the flow. And this year Marco [Belinelli] not being here is important. He came off the bench and helped us in a lot of games and I think that's a big concern."

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25322602/qa-jimmer-fredette-on-opportunity-with-spurs-chauncey-billups-and-his-dog

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Kind of makes it sound like it's his roster spot to lose. Pop wouldn't be talking about filling a role of a rotation player for a guy who may not even make the team.

[SsKSpurs21]

Kind of makes it sound like it's his roster spot to lose. Pop wouldn't be talking about filling a role of a rotation player for a guy who may not even make the team.

true. i think given the right opportunity, Jimmer can be a surprise. he can be that difference maker who comes in cold and if he gets hot could rile off 10-12 points a la steve kerr circa 2003.

[benefactor]

Unfortunately, Jimmer is a smaller, shittier version of Beli.

[benefactor]

Simmons will probably be taking Belis minutes after it's all said and done.

[cd98]

Simmons will probably be taking Belis minutes after it's all said and done.

Maybe, but he'll have to earn it. People doubting Jimmer and giving Simmons a free pass just because he lit up the D-League this summer. Yes, summer league is the D-League.

[cd98]

BTW, Simmons looked good in summer league, but had some God-awful turnovers. Turnovers that will get you permanently benched when Pop is coaching. We all know Pop doesn't give young players the benefit of the doubt. So I would hold back any thoughts that he'll have a consistent role until he actually proves it by making the roster and earning playing time.

[ceperez]

BTW, Simmons looked good in summer league, but had some God-awful turnovers. Turnovers that will get you permanently benched when Pop is coaching. We all know Pop doesn't give young players the benefit of the doubt. So I would hold back any thoughts that he'll have a consistent role until he actually proves it by making the roster and earning playing time.

There were only 2 players in that SL team that could create for themselves. He had to force the issue.

The problem though is that, with the Spurs, Simmons won't be dribbling the ball. So we'll see how his game will translate. I see him more of a Ginobili backup, so perhaps in those situations, he'll be dribbling the ball.

[SAGirl]

Simmons will probably be taking Belis minutes after it's all said and done.
I am actually betting on Kyle Anderson. I am ready to lose the bet bc he's young and may not put his whole game together on just his second year in the league, but he has a more skilled game and a higher ceiling. Simmons is athletic, but his game depends on his athleticism, and in the NBA guys are much better than he is at what he does. He could come in and look like a scrub. He is also average in size and length and will be a rookie. I want to see him do well, and I like him a lot too I just see him as Manu's backup. I think Anderson will be much better and a true SF. The potential he has to cause matchup problems for benches will be golden. Do you put your best bench defender on Ginobili? Watch Anderson repeat SL performances against all sort of small bench dudes you want to throw at him. Heck I could see the occasional Kawhi and Anderson wing lineups there and moving Green to play with Manu some. Both Kawhi and Anderson can handle the ball, bother shooters and get deflections with those long arms. I could see some Anderson at the 4 with both Kahwi and Danny and LMA at the 5, specially against teams that like to play perimeter a ton and will want to pull Timmy or whomever away from the paint. Again, Anderson has to defend at a high level for that to work, but this guy could be incredible for the Spurs in years to come, way way better than Simmons TBH.

[Nathan89]

Simmons better get the minutes over that slow shit. He's a better creator than KA and his turnovers will go down with Patty, Manu, and Diaw all pitching in to create offense. We need athleticism not a slow ball-stopper who can't shoot or play defense.

Also Jimmer is a better replacement for Simmons, Patty, or Manu. Not seeing much use of acquiring Rasual as a replacement to anyone.

[SAGirl]

Simmons better get the minutes over that slow shit. He's a better creator than KA and his turnovers will go down with Patty, Manu, and Diaw all pitching in to create offense. We need athleticism not a slow ball-stopper who can't shoot or play defense.

Also Jimmer is a better replacement for Simmons, Patty, or Manu. Not seeing much use of acquiring Rasual as a replacement to anyone.

Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. I have mine and we'll see. :bobo
I would say also no need to insult other players to prop up your guy, that is so anti spur, but that is the way this forum operates, so what can you do??? :p: Peace!

[BillMc]

I am actually betting on Kyle Anderson. I am ready to lose the bet bc he's young and may not put his whole game together on just his second year in the league, but he has a more skilled game and a higher ceiling. Simmons is athletic, but his game depends on his athleticism, and in the NBA guys are much better than he is at what he does. He could come in and look like a scrub. He is also average in size and length and will be a rookie. I want to see him do well, and I like him a lot too I just see him as Manu's backup. I think Anderson will be much better and a true SF. The potential he has to cause matchup problems for benches will be golden. Do you put your best bench defender on Ginobili? Watch Anderson repeat SL performances against all sort of small bench dudes you want to throw at him. Heck I could see the occasional Kawhi and Anderson wing lineups there and moving Green to play with Manu some. Both Kawhi and Anderson can handle the ball, bother shooters and get deflections with those long arms. I could see some Anderson at the 4 with both Kahwi and Danny and LMA at the 5, specially against teams that like to play perimeter a ton and will want to pull Timmy or whomever away from the paint. Again, Anderson has to defend at a high level for that to work, but this guy could be incredible for the Spurs in years to come, way way better than Simmons TBH.

Nice post. Yeah, I'm excited by Anderson's potential and the matchup nightmare he could be. Yes, he could still turn out to be a bust, but the signs are pretty positive. We'll find out soon, I think.

[Spurtacular]

BTW, Simmons looked good in summer league, but had some God-awful turnovers. Turnovers that will get you permanently benched when Pop is coaching. We all know Pop doesn't give young players the benefit of the doubt. So I would hold back any thoughts that he'll have a consistent role until he actually proves it by making the roster and earning playing time.

He'll still earn minutes at key stretches if he's the real deal on defense.

[cd98]

There were only 2 players in that SL team that could create for themselves. He had to force the issue.

The problem though is that, with the Spurs, Simmons won't be dribbling the ball. So we'll see how his game will translate. I see him more of a Ginobili backup, so perhaps in those situations, he'll be dribbling the ball.

Naw, he had some careless turnovers in the open court. I hope he can contribute off the bench. But summer league greatness rarely translates in the NBA. It's a different level. I wouldn't assume he will get minutes.

[SAGirl]

Nice post. Yeah, I'm excited by Anderson's potential and the matchup nightmare he could be. Yes, he could still turn out to be a bust, but the signs are pretty positive. We'll find out soon, I think.
Yup you are right. Just to point out, I am not sure he develops his game fully this year because he's so young and his game relies on his skill and his BBIQ. He needs opportunities to grow and the Spurs are famous for bringing young guys along slowly, specially young guys who are still developing their games. He has the potential to be a special player for the Spurs at some point though. He's more perimeter oriented than a Diaw, who plays a lot inside and is a real bull against perimeter players. They are different, but both have that x-factor that can unlock a lineup in ways no other guys can. Manu has that factor too, he's just a superstar and future hall of fame player of course. But not every superstar has that factor and not every guy who has that factor needs to be superstar.

Just really, really smart players that raise the BBIQ level of your ballclub. I am really high on his potential, and it doesn't mean he's ready to do what I stated right now, but he'll get chances when the opportunity presents itself and he's been much more aggressive than he was as a rookie. I don't think he'll draw fouls like he did in SL (you have to account for all the Dayes and Ayers types there who are just foul prone), but he'll still catch guys off balance. He's tough to time, bc he throws a lot of fakes, so you can't be all exuberant around him. That is how he makes his defender slow down to his level. His issues are on the defensive end, but I think he's made progress. I can understand ppl not liking his style, but you have to kind of appreciate how crafty he is. I am not sure he puts his game together this year, but I would like to at least see glimpses of the mismatches and he will need time and chemistry playing with guys to unlock his passing ability. But he certainly has a higher ceiling in terms of what he could potentially do for the team than Simmons for example, who I also like.

I think ultimately both Simmons and Kyle will get minutes as backup SF. Pop is barely getting to know these guys and will go all Cojo/Mills on them, switching to flavor of the month most likely and also finding out who works better with the bench lineups. We are likely to see both guys, and even some others thrown in there at times.

[NASpurs]

*edit* nvm Spurtacular already posted it, of course :lol

[RayTdropout]

65 pages of disgrace

[AFBlue]

65 pages of disgrace

What's a disgrace is the 65 one-page spamming threads from people who would prefer to bash Spurs players than promote them. I'd rather have a debate on whether Jimmer will succeed with the Spurs than wade through the pages of bullshit threads about Parker or Kawhi.

[BatManu20]

^What he said. 65 pages for Jimmer is a bit ridiculous, but it's a hell of a lot better than the absurd amount of 1-2 page shit threads that have been popping up daily on ST the past few months, mostly consisting of hate for Spurs players or some other unequivocally dumb bullshit.

[benefactor]

I am actually betting on Kyle Anderson. I am ready to lose the bet bc he's young and may not put his whole game together on just his second year in the league, but he has a more skilled game and a higher ceiling. Simmons is athletic, but his game depends on his athleticism, and in the NBA guys are much better than he is at what he does. He could come in and look like a scrub. He is also average in size and length and will be a rookie. I want to see him do well, and I like him a lot too I just see him as Manu's backup. I think Anderson will be much better and a true SF. The potential he has to cause matchup problems for benches will be golden. Do you put your best bench defender on Ginobili? Watch Anderson repeat SL performances against all sort of small bench dudes you want to throw at him. Heck I could see the occasional Kawhi and Anderson wing lineups there and moving Green to play with Manu some. Both Kawhi and Anderson can handle the ball, bother shooters and get deflections with those long arms. I could see some Anderson at the 4 with both Kahwi and Danny and LMA at the 5, specially against teams that like to play perimeter a ton and will want to pull Timmy or whomever away from the paint. Again, Anderson has to defend at a high level for that to work, but this guy could be incredible for the Spurs in years to come, way way better than Simmons TBH.
Yeah...I was thinking more along the lines of Anderson getting minutes at backup 3/small ball 4 and Simmons being more of a 2/3 like Green. Spurs have a good problem in that there are lots of interchangeable parts so different players can fill in at different roles depending on match ups/performance. This is why I think if Jimmer does make the team he will spend a lot of time in a suit. There's really no minutes for him unless someone gets injured or there is a game where rotation players need to be rested.

[SAGirl]

What's a disgrace is the 65 one-page spamming threads from people who would prefer to bash Spurs players than promote them. If rather have a debate on whether Jimmer will succeed with the Spurs than wade through the pages of bullshit threads about Parker or Kawhi.
Well said sir!
:bobo

[BillMc]

What's a disgrace is the 65 one-page spamming threads from people who would prefer to bash Spurs players than promote them. If rather have a debate on whether Jimmer will succeed with the Spurs than wade through the pages of bullshit threads about Parker or Kawhi.

Amen.

[tholdren]

Well said sir!
:bobo

Jimmer is better than KL and Parker

[ceperez]

Yup you are right. Just to point out, I am not sure he develops his game fully this year because he's so young and his game relies on his skill and his BBIQ. He needs opportunities to grow and the Spurs are famous for bringing young guys along slowly, specially young guys who are still developing their games. He has the potential to be a special player for the Spurs at some point though. He's more perimeter oriented than a Diaw, who plays a lot inside and is a real bull against perimeter players. They are different, but both have that x-factor that can unlock a lineup in ways no other guys can. Manu has that factor too, he's just a superstar and future hall of fame player of course. But not every superstar has that factor and not every guy who has that factor needs to be superstar.

Just really, really smart players that raise the BBIQ level of your ballclub. I am really high on his potential, and it doesn't mean he's ready to do what I stated right now, but he'll get chances when the opportunity presents itself and he's been much more aggressive than he was as a rookie. I don't think he'll draw fouls like he did in SL (you have to account for all the Dayes and Ayers types there who are just foul prone), but he'll still catch guys off balance. He's tough to time, bc he throws a lot of fakes, so you can't be all exuberant around him. That is how he makes his defender slow down to his level. His issues are on the defensive end, but I think he's made progress. I can understand ppl not liking his style, but you have to kind of appreciate how crafty he is. I am not sure he puts his game together this year, but I would like to at least see glimpses of the mismatches and he will need time and chemistry playing with guys to unlock his passing ability. But he certainly has a higher ceiling in terms of what he could potentially do for the team than Simmons for example, who I also like.

I think ultimately both Simmons and Kyle will get minutes as backup SF. Pop is barely getting to know these guys and will go all Cojo/Mills on them, switching to flavor of the month most likely and also finding out who works better with the bench lineups. We are likely to see both guys, and even some others thrown in there at times.

KA is like a Larry Bird, but in the wrong era. They are actually comparable in height and probably even speed.

Bird of course worked his a** off everytime he was on the court, KA should have that kind of mentality. Kind of like the mentality that Simmons showed in SL.

[SAGirl]

KA is like a Larry Bird, but in the wrong era. They are actually comparable in height and probably even speed.

Bird of course worked his a** off everytime he was on the court, KA should have that kind of mentality. Kind of like the mentality that Simmons showed in SL.

I think he needs to become a better shooter. His game has always been passing. Its kind of what he likes to do and is probably looking to do most of the time. Some highlights of him from college and HS have him making the most surprising passes to guys who are cutting and moving, so I don't think he developed his shooting enough growing up. He's now trying to do that as he's entering the NBA and we could call it a work in progress. If he could shoot the 3 at a good enough rate, it will open up the realm of possibilities of what he could do for others and it will help the Spurs system which is based on shooters spread out. Even shooting the 3 at a Manu rate will be good. Manu is just so skilled that he's able to shoot those step back 3s and stuff like that, it just opens up a number of stuff for Manu, the fact that you have to respect that 3.

Well Bird was one of the best shooters ever and a straight cold blooded "assassin", so on that respect its not even close. I do think Kyle is a very very good passer, and a smart kid, who will be able to eventually, when his game matures a little bit, come up with very creative ways to score for himself and his teammates. Spurs have used him as a scorer a lot, we saw it in SL, and even in Austin, which was not his forte coming into the league. He was a guy like Diaw who would rather always make a play for a teammate, even at the last second quite honestly. But I think, seeing as he didn't shoot well, and how you have to make NBA defenses respect your shots, and the Spurs wanted him to develop his post up game, he did need to go to the D'league and work on his offense a whole lot, and I don't think that aspect of his game is completed developing at all. I do hope he's good enough to see minutes this year, because he could be an exciting player to watch and like I said, I think he has the potential to unlock a lot of possibilities for the Spurs in the future. The thing that surprised me the most in SL wasn't his scoring or anything like that, in that Suns game, he had his worst shooting/scoring outing and both Simmons and Graham outscored him, but if you paid attention, when he was on the court, he had an impact and made many passes that were stunning for a guy his age. There was no other forward, not one that had that kind of skilled game in SL. Some of those passes are not in highlight reels because the guys he passed to didn't score, but you would appreciate what I talk about in the x-factor, the court vision he has.

[tholdren]

Jimmer is better than Larry Bird

[Spurtacular]

Yes, his Sacramento shooting numbers are pretty good, because despite what you think, he was allowed to hog the ball his time there. When he went to Chicago and NO, he had to play off the ball more (which is why his assisted three rate went from 60 percent in SAC to 75 percent in CHI and 89 percent in NO). As he moved to a spot-up role (like the one he's trying for with the Spurs), his shooting fell apart. That's because he's a poor floor-spacer. He can create his own shot, two- or three-pointer. But that doesn't work in the context of a normal Spurs offense. I guess if Manu is hurt, Jimmer might have a couple of decent rotation games as the backup two. But he's not going to get the ball in the normal rotation, and he doesn't play well off the ball.

You don't know what exact role Jimmer will have with the Spurs. Some think a Patty Mills like role, others a Beli like role, others a back-up PG role for Parker. We'll see. I think Jimmer can thrive in any of those roles though. The Spurs know how to maximize talent.

As for NOL, Jimmer didn't struggle because he was missing spot-up shots. He struggled b/c he played on a team that doesn't make the extra pass among other factors. In fact, if you watch his NOL highlights, you'll see that he is much more often getting the ball in ISOs than on spot-ups. And he did pretty well with them taking his 2 percentage to an all-time high I believe. I believe his three struggles were psychological and that he's cleared his mind and regained his form.

As for Chicago, I don't really count that as anything. He was truly an end of the bench guy getting scraps there. He was still getting over the devastation of being in the most dysfunctional organization in the league (the Kings) too.

[Spurtacular]

No, and this is why it's clear you don't understand spacing. Jimmer shooting from 28 feet is the equivalent of an average shooter shooting from 23 feet.

I guess that whole 53.5 percent thing flew over your head.... But even if you were/are right, that's still extra spacing he creates; and you were arguing that Jimmer doesn't space the floor (probably the most moronic argument anyone has made in this thread).

[Spurtacular]

His man can totally help off him and recover. That was obvious last year, but even in his peak years, his guys were all over him whenver he spotted up inside 25 feet.

Not in a real system like the Spurs. Teams that took chances off Jimmer did so knowing he was playing with me-first players who don't willingly move the ball. That's not the Spurs. Jimmer will make people who cheat pay.

[Kawhitstorm]

Not in a real system like the Spurs. Teams that took chances off Jimmer did so knowing he was playing with me-first players who don't willingly move the ball. That's not the Spurs. Jimmer will make people who cheat pay.

Okay, I'll trade you Bonner for Jimmer in a heart beat.....now just make it happen! (Suggestions: spam the PTFOs inbox/mailbox, harass Bonner, call in death/bomb threat if Bonner is still on the roster, send wine to Pop...I'll pitch in if you need funds)

[NASpurs]

Another Q&A

http://www.espn.co.uk/blog/basketball/post/_/id/9287/jimmer-fredette-qa-enjoying-green-light-from-spurs

SAN ANTONIO -- The gaping cut over Jimmer Fredette (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/6434/jimmer-fredette)'s right eye certainly didn't affect vision after Thursday's practice, as he stayed late for extra work, draining several 3-pointers in rapid succession.

Playing for his fourth team since being drafted No. 10 overall in 2011, Fredette may have finally found a home with the San Antonio Spurs (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/sa/san-antonio-spurs), a team he says has finally given him the green light to do what he does best, and that's shoot the basketball. The Spurs could certainly use Fredette's skill set off the bench as they look to replace the production of key role players such as Marco Belinelli (http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/3190/marco-belinelli).

"He's a shooter," Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said of Fredette. "He's a scorer, and we're looking for that type of thing to add to the team. Marco [Belinelli] not being here is important. He came off the bench and helped us in a lot of games, and I think that's a big concern."

In this Q&A with ESPN.com, Fredette discussed his up-and-down career, growth as a professional and the vote of confidence given by the coaching staff for him to shoot the ball when there are open opportunities:

How has your NBA journey been so far? It seems like you've had lots of ups and downs since coming into the league.
Fredette: Yeah, so far there's been some good things, some bad things. But I think I've progressed and learned how to be a pro. I think I've continually gotten better as a basketball player. You've just got to keep your confidence high. You can't let anything bad that happens get you down. You've just got to continue to stay strong, stay mentally tough and know that when you do get an opportunity, you have to be prepared for it. You never know when that can come.

Throughout your journey, there had to be times your confidence was shaken dramatically, right?
Fredette: Yeah, definitely. There are times when you're like, 'Dang, man, this is not the way that I pictured it as a kid or growing up.' But I think that's all a part of the growing process as a pro. It's not necessarily that you're not good enough to be out there, you know what I mean? Sometimes, there are other circumstances. So you've just got to stay mentally prepared, know that you can play, and when you get out there be able to compete.

How do you think you fit in with the Spurs?
Fredette: I think I fit in well with the team. This is a group of guys that knows how to win, obviously. They've won championships. They've done amazing things in their careers. I'm just fortunate enough to be able to be a part of this team, and hopefully be able to learn from these guys that are veterans that have been there and done that. Just look at their work ethic. And I think I fit in well with their system being able to shoot the basketball, try to make the right play and give up a good shot for a great shot. I think that's kind of the m.o.

You've got a pretty big cut there over the right eye. What happened? Any practice elbows?
Fredette: [Laughs] I just hit my head the other day. Nothing too bad. It wasn't a practice elbow.

What did coach Gregg Popovich tell you when he first brought you out here?
Fredette: He just told me that he wants me to be aggressive and that they brought me in here to space the floor to be able to shoot the basketball; to just kind of do what I do. But he said he was very happy to have me here. Obviously, I'm super excited to be here. I'm just going to do anything I can to help the team, whatever it takes.

What's it like for you to have that sort of vote of confidence to just shoot the ball out here in San Antonio?
Fredette: Coaches are telling me that every day. If I don't shoot it, they're coming up to me, especially coach [Becky] Hammon is always telling me: 'Shoot the basketball. Shoot it when you're open.' So it's great to have that confidence. I haven't had that necessarily all the time since I've been in the league. So it's great to be able to have the green light to be able to shoot it when you're open.

What did you do to prepare for this latest opportunity?
Fredette: I worked really hard this summer on my game. I think I worked harder than ever this summer to try to get my body in shape. To come into camp in the best shape I can, I changed all my eating habits and worked as hard as I could. Once I figured out I was going to be going to the Spurs, I tried to watch film on them, my trainers and I, and tried to emulate shots that I'd get in the game during my practice sessions. So I tried to come into camp knowing what I was gonna do.

You said you changed your diet. What was it before and what is it now?
Fredette: It wasn't all that bad. But obviously, I love treats. So I love my ice cream and all that stuff at night. So I tried to eliminate all of that, and tried to eat really healthy. I'm really into the super foods. So I try to eat a lot of super foods: kale, spinach, blueberries, oranges, salmon, turkey; that type of stuff, just really healthy stuff to see how it felt. I've trimmed up a little bit, and it gives you a little more energy. So it's felt great so far.

Why were you surprised the Spurs showed interest in you?
Fredette: Well, they just weren't on our radar of teams we were talking about. My agents and I, we had some teams that we were talking to. but the Spurs hadn't really come up in our conversations all that much. Then all of a sudden, they called me up and said that they were interested, and had an opportunity for me if we wanted it. I was like, 'Of course.' I mean, what a great organization. I was honored to be able to have that.

You seem pretty upbeat right now. What's going on?
Fredette: [Laughing] I'm very excited. It's a great organization, great team to be a part of. I'm just all about trying to work hard and going out and trying to win the basketball game. I know this organization is all about that, however it can get done. And here, you never know when you're going to get your opportunity, you know? I think at some point I will get an opportunity. So I have to go out there and be ready to go, be ready to play, and try to fit into the system, and do what I do out there. And I think they appreciate what I do. So I can play more freely, and be able to go out and try to shoot and score, be aggressive, but also help defensively and continue to work."

[Chinook]

You don't know what exact role Jimmer will have with the Spurs. Some think a Patty Mills like role, others a Beli like role, others a back-up PG role for Parker. We'll see. I think Jimmer can thrive in any of those roles though. The Spurs know how to maximize talent.

As for NOL, Jimmer didn't struggle because he was missing spot-up shots. He struggled b/c he played on a team that doesn't make the extra pass among other factors. In fact, if you watch his NOL highlights, you'll see that he is much more often getting the ball in ISOs than on spot-ups. And he did pretty well with them taking his 2 percentage to an all-time high I believe. I believe his three struggles were psychological and that he's cleared his mind and regained his form.

As for Chicago, I don't really count that as anything. He was truly an end of the bench guy getting scraps there. He was still getting over the devastation of being in the most dysfunctional organization in the league (the Kings) too.

I think Jimmer has a chance in a Beli/Neal role. As I have not been shy to state, Jimmer is much better with the ball in his hands than he gets credit for. He's not the cutter that Beli is, but he can penetrate and make simple passes. That's something that Patty is inconsistent in. If Jimmer were 6-6, the fact that he's not a floor-spacer wouldn't be too big on an issue, because he can do other things on offense well. But he's a combo-guard in a bad way, and that hurts him on both ends.


I guess that whole 53.5 percent thing flew over your head.... But even if you were/are right, that's still extra spacing he creates; and you were arguing that Jimmer doesn't space the floor (probably the most moronic argument anyone has made in this thread).

First, we'd have to see the sample size for know if 53.5 is even statistically significant. But the reason why it doesn't matter is because Jimmer's total 3P% is so low. The higher his deep shots are, the lower his normal threes are. And that's a bad thing. Anyway, again, spacing isn't a stagnant thing. It's very dynamic, which is why the term 'gravity' is gaining support as an alternative term. Jimmer has a low relative gravity due to his release, and that's why he has to shoot from so far away, why he isn't good in catch-and-shoot threes and why almost none of his attempt came from the corners. Player can recover to him relatively easily if he takes normal shots. If he steps farther out, he can get room to shoot, but his release still allows guys to play really far off. As the videos I posted a while back showed, people were able to contest his shots after starting almost 30 feet away from him. That's horrible for spacing.


Not in a real system like the Spurs. Teams that took chances off Jimmer did so knowing he was playing with me-first players who don't willingly move the ball. That's not the Spurs. Jimmer will make people who cheat pay.

That's bullshit, plain and simple. People didn't pass to Jimmer because he wasn't open. The 2014-2015 Pelicans where either in the league in assist percentage, while the 2013-2014 Bulls were ninth. Those teams picked up Fredette specifically because he was supposed to space the floor for them. They wanted him to catch and shoot, and he would constantly get run off the line, even when he had space. You orgasm all over his Sacramento three-point percentage, but those were the selfish teams he played on. Jimmer thrives (in the 2K sense) when he plays on a team that gives up isos and lets him run the offense and chuck 30-foot pull-ups. The Kings likely hurt Jimmer's development, but they didn't make him look worse than he was.

[Nathan89]

What did coach Gregg Popovich tell you when he first brought you out here?

Fredette: He just told me that he wants me to be aggressive and that they brought me in here to space the floor to be able to shoot the basketball; to just kind of do what I do. But he said he was very happy to have me here. Obviously, I'm super excited to be here. I'm just going to do anything I can to help the team, whatever it takes.


:lol

[cd98]

:lol

Apparently Pop forgot to consult Spurstalk so they could explain to him that Jimmer has bad form and can't space the floor or get his shot off in the NBA.

[Spurtacular]

That's bullshit, plain and simple. People didn't pass to Jimmer because he wasn't open.

I watched the games. I can tell you that the Kings and Pels were both terrible at making the timely passes to an open Jimmer. If players did that on the Spurs, Pop would bench their asses so fast.....

Jimmer is going to a real system; and he'll see dividends.

And yes, on paper, the Bulls had a system that he could've worked in. But he came late in their season and was never implemented into their system in any serious way. Like I say, I don't even look at Chicago when I'm analyzing Jimmer. It was a spare scraps role. In theory, it could've been more and the Bulls could've benefited. But I don't think there's any hard feelings there for Jimmer or his fans. Thibedeou was clearly reluctant to mess with chemistry right before the playoffs.

[rastaspur]

I watched the games. I can tell you that the Kings and Pels were both terrible at making the timely passes to an open Jimmer. If players did that on the Spurs, Pop would bench their asses so fast.....

Jimmer is going to a real system; and he'll see dividends.

And yes, on paper, the Bulls had a system that he could've worked in. But he came late in their season and was never implemented into their system in any serious way. Like I say, I don't even look at Chicago when I'm analyzing Jimmer. It was a spare scraps role. In theory, it could've been more and the Bulls could've benefited. But I don't think there's any hard feelings there for Jimmer or his fans. Thibedeou was clearly reluctant to mess with chemistry right before the playoffs.

I hope this is jimmer's chance to shine and he finds his fit. If so, you will be the happiest man alive. Good luck to your boy

[Spurtacular]

I hope this is jimmer's chance to shine and he finds his fit. If so, you will be the happiest man alive. Good luck to your boy

Well, I have a life outside of Jimmer. But as a fan, I'd definitely be thrilled. I don't think a guy lights it up in college like he did w/o having mad skills. He'll probably quiet a lot of haters, imo.

[SAGirl]

Okay, I'll trade you Bonner for Jimmer in a heart beat.....now just make it happen! (Suggestions: spam the PTFOs inbox/mailbox, harass Bonner, call in death/bomb threat if Bonner is still on the roster, send wine to Pop...I'll pitch in if you need funds)
On a sidenote, Bonner playing as a center in scrimmages. :bang Wtf is Pop going to do this season with 35 yr old Bonner as a center???? No, Pop please....

He might have been using Bonner to teach new guys roles and such. I didn't see Diaw there after all. Bonner truly is a good teammate and I like him as a personality, but seriously he cannot box out, rebound or deal with centers. I am afraid he'll be subbed as center next to LMA and I am scared.:depressedI would rather see Boban but it seems he's a year away if that from being decent. Manu was very guarded when talking about Boban.

I am shifting towards a no to Rasual Butler, I can't see him playing over Kyle or Simmons and some guys like Deshaun Thomas are looking very springy and Williams can always shoot. I am learning against Butler.

We haven't seen much of Jimmer, but I don't think Spurs will regret picking him up. Everyone is still pretty much in play but I don't see Butler making it. There are some hungry young guys that I don't think Butler will outplay.

[Joseph Kony]

why the fuck does this thread about this shitty mormon faggot have almost 2000 replies? the fuck is wrong with you people?

[Kawhitstorm]

On a sidenote, Bonner playing as a center in scrimmages. :bang Wtf is Pop going to do this season with 35 yr old Bonner as a center???? No, Pop please....

He might have been using Bonner to teach new guys roles and such. I didn't see Diaw there after all. Bonner truly is a good teammate and I like him as a personality, but seriously he cannot box out, rebound or deal with centers. I am afraid he'll be subbed as center next to LMA and I am scared.:depressedI would rather see Boban but it seems he's a year away if that from being decent. Manu was very guarded when talking about Boban.

I am shifting towards a no to Rasual Butler, I can't see him playing over Kyle or Simmons and some guys like Deshaun Thomas are looking very springy and Williams can always shoot. I am learning against Butler.

We haven't seen much of Jimmer, but I don't think Spurs will regret picking him up. Everyone is still pretty much in play but I don't see Butler making it. There are some hungry young guys that I don't think Butler will outplay.

Bonner isn't going to hurt the team as a practice player so I don't care if he was playing point guard. He would actually be a good practice player since he knows the system thus he can guide the new guys. Diaw is most likely resting b/c he played for France over the summer (Tony has to play b/c he's a starter).

As far as Rasual, if he can't outplay DeShaun/Williams as a wing shooter then he doesn't deserve a roster spot. DeShaun seems to be playing as a stretch 4 b/c of his slow feet on defense thus I would pencil him as Bonner's competition & Williams is no where near the PURE shooter that Butler has proven to be his entire career. I always felt like Williams days as a Spurs were numbered once Simmons was signed.

[Old School 44]

Nice Q&A with Fredette. I really liked Fredette's Spurs 100 Shooting drill video embedded in the article. If he regains his touch with the Spurs, him just standing beyond the arc will open it up even more for LA and TD.

Article Link (http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25322602/qa-jimmer-fredette-on-opportunity-with-spurs-chauncey-billups-and-his-dog)

[Chinook]

Apparently Pop forgot to consult Spurstalk so they could explain to him that Jimmer has bad form and can't space the floor or get his shot off in the NBA.

I'm sure he thought Daye was going to space the floor too, and the team guaranteed a lot more money to Austin than they did to Jimmer. Pop makes mistakes like everyone else, and he misreads situations. People should be able to make up their own minds without having to rely on what Pop says.

[ceperez]

I'm sure he thought Daye was going to space the floor too, and the team guaranteed a lot more money to Austin than they did to Jimmer. Pop makes mistakes like everyone else, and he misreads situations. People should be able to make up their own minds without having to rely on what Pop says.

Pop also paid Ayres for two years, now Ayres can't even keep a spot in a league in China.

In free agency, you buy low ( players that everyone else thinks isn't worth much ), then you hope they develop into something. Didn't happen with Ayres.

[Nathan89]

Either Jimmer or Simmons needs to take some of the play-making responsibilities from manu this year. Too much of this conversation is focused on Jimmer's ability to space the floor. He'll be signed as insurance to patty's shooting and manu and simmon's play-making.

I predict Jimmer per 36 3pt attempts will be 6.8+ at 38+3pt%.

[Chinook]

Either Jimmer or Simmons needs to take some of the play-making responsibilities from manu this year. Too much of this conversation is focused on Jimmer's ability to space the floor. He'll be signed as insurance to patty's shooting and manu and simmon's play-making.

I predict Jimmer per 36 3pt attempts will be 6.8+ at 38+3pt%.

Dunno why you leave out Anderson, who's both a better play-maker and more likely to be in the rotation.

[AFBlue]

Great article, thanks for posting NASpurs.

[AFBlue]

why the fuck does this thread about this shitty mormon faggot have almost 2000 replies? the fuck is wrong with you people?

Thank you for your contribution to this thread. I'm sure your 718 other posts were just as riveting.

[Robz4000]

why the fuck does this thread about this shitty mormon faggot have almost 2000 replies? the fuck is wrong with you people?

[Nathan89]

Dunno why you leave out Anderson, who's both a better play-maker and more likely to be in the rotation.

I'm not as high on Anderson's play-making ability as others so I left him out but he is an option as well. I'm high on Simmons so that's my first option to play next to Manu and Patty. Simmons seems like the better fit to take advantage of the Spacing that will come with Patty, Manu, Diaw, and West (not that they'll play all together very often). Also should be able to play off of Manu better with his outside shooting ability being better than Anderson.

[DJR210]

Well, I have a life outside of Jimmer. But as a fan, I'd definitely be thrilled. I don't think a guy lights it up in college like he did w/o having mad skills. He'll probably quiet a lot of haters, imo.

:lol

[SAGirl]

I'm not as high on Anderson's play-making ability as others so I left him out but he is an option as well. I'm high on Simmons so that's my first option to play next to Manu and Patty. Simmons seems like the better fit to take advantage of the Spacing that will come with Patty, Manu, Diaw, and West (not that they'll play all together very often). Also should be able to play off of Manu better with his outside shooting ability being better than Anderson.

We don't know for sure that Simmons will be able to shoot better than Anderson, but Anderson is not known as a shooter either. Neither shot the 3 well in SL and while Simmons shot the 3 well last season in the Dleague, he was at 28% the season before. From Dleague to NBA % drop bc athletes are better closing out shooters, they have more length and are able to recover and contest shots that in the D'league were uncontested. Truth is we don't know how either guy will do shooting and neither does Pop, which is why we have Butler, Jimmer, Williams and even Deshaun Thomas here in the mix.

Kyle's game is also very different from Simmons and is not just on athleticism. They score and create for others in different ways. Kyle is likely to punish mismatches more often and can relieve the pressure on other bench players bc he's unlikely to be guarded by guys that can deal with his size, or he's likely to be able to get a mismatch on a switch. He's also likely to be able to find cutters and guys coming off screens better, and is prone to throw the occasional alley oop. Despite his critics pointing out he is slow, he actually plays at a fast pace, bc he grabs a rebound and can find outlet passes that other guys don't find, or he can score himself. Simmons has a more typical wing style of play, being able to slash hard to the basket and catch on the move, finishing strong. I think he will have gravity bc you have to respect him as a cutter and slasher, and he may still make the occassional 3 pt shot. I don't know about his shooting for certain is all, but he can certainly play off the ball.

We'll see which of the two guys fits best. I think they are both valuable and bring different things and Pop can play them together bc they compliment each other and Patty very well, and neither guy has redundant skills. Both have a future in the Spurs for me. Simmons defense may be the key to his playing time in the end. As far as how they do with Manu, I don't know. There are questions about the big men in the bench as well. I tend to think Kyle's rebounding ability will be needed in the bench as well.

[ElNono]

Anderson has been playing SF in the few training vids that we've seen. I think that's the role he's going to have on this team. Summer league had a different roster with different needs, but with the main team, barring a ton of injuries, I think that's how Pop is going to use him.

I would put him behind Tony, Manu, Patty, McCollum and Fredette as an option to run the point and be a playmaker on this team.

I actually don't see Simmons as a "playmaker". I see him more in the strict SG position, possibly playing there if Manu runs the point or alongside Patty when Manu rests.

[Nathan89]

We don't know for sure that Simmons will be able to shoot better than Anderson, but Anderson is not known as a shooter either. Neither shot the 3 well in SL and while Simmons shot the 3 well last season in the Dleague, he was at 28% the season before. From Dleague to NBA % drop bc athletes are better closing out shooters, they have more length and are able to recover and contest shots that in the D'league were uncontested. Truth is we don't know how either guy will do shooting and neither does Pop, which is why we have Butler, Jimmer, Williams and even Deshaun Thomas here in the mix.

Kyle's game is also very different from Simmons and is not just on athleticism. They score and create for others in different ways. Kyle is likely to punish mismatches more often and can relieve the pressure on other bench players bc he's unlikely to be guarded by guys that can deal with his size, or he's likely to be able to get a mismatch on a switch. He's also likely to be able to find cutters and guys coming off screens better, and is prone to throw the occasional alley oop. Despite his critics pointing out he is slow, he actually plays at a fast pace, bc he grabs a rebound and can find outlet passes that other guys don't find, or he can score himself. Simmons has a more typical wing style of play, being able to slash hard to the basket and catch on the move, finishing strong. I think he will have gravity bc you have to respect him as a cutter and slasher, and he may still make the occassional 3 pt shot. I don't know about his shooting for certain is all, but he can certainly play off the ball.

We'll see which of the two guys fits best. I think they are both valuable and bring different things and Pop can play them together bc they compliment each other and Patty very well, and neither guy has redundant skills. Both have a future in the Spurs for me. Simmons defense may be the key to his playing time in the end. As far as how they do with Manu, I don't know. There are questions about the big men in the bench as well. I tend to think Kyle's rebounding ability will be needed in the bench as well.

Simmons ability to hit 3's at a high % is in question but I'm expect him to hit them better than KA.

I don't want the offense to generate from KA trying to punish a supposed mismatch. Diaw can do that one-on-one stuff better than him. Offense needs someone with some speed that can get the defense shifting for help. Also KA won't many options to throw alleys to given the team tbh.

Manu should be guarding the wing with less athleticism at this point so if Simmons has good defense the decision will be easy.

[tholdren]

:lol

It's only funny because you have no idea what that means.

[Kawhitstorm]

Simmons ability to hit 3's at a high % is in question but I'm expect him to hit them better than KA.

I don't want the offense to generate from KA trying to punish a supposed mismatch. Diaw can do that one-on-one stuff better than him. Offense needs someone with some speed that can get the defense shifting for help. Also KA won't many options to throw alleys to given the team tbh.

Manu should be guarding the wing with less athleticism at this point so if Simmons has good defense the decision will be easy.

Simmons essentially is going to be used defensively the same was way CoJo was used early on his career (situational minutes). I would expect Ray & Simmons to get minutes depending on the match-up but Ray would get the start if Tony is out of the line-up (ala Cojo) & Simmons would eat up Manu's minutes if he's resting. KA basically is going to take Belly's minutes but someone like Butler could play situational minutes if the team needs a shooter to space the floor.

Patty/Ray
Manu/Simmons
Kyle/Butler
West/Bonner
Diaw/Boban

I would expect either Danny or Kawhi to play w/ the bench unit since Patty/Manu/Kyle might be defensive liabilities on the perimeter especially without a legit rim protector. Patty will most likely play a lot of minutes w/ the starters esp. if Tony is struggling.

[Nathan89]

It's only funny because you have no idea what that means.

No it was funny because 90% of the actual talk in this thread has centered on that issue with some seemingly thinking it's stupid to have the thought that Jimmer spaces the floor and then Jimmer says one of the most respected coaches said that's why he was brought in.

[Nathan89]

Simmons essentially is going to be used defensively the same was way CoJo was used early on his career (situational minutes). I would expect Ray & Simmons to get minutes depending on the match-up but Ray would get the start if Tony is out of the line-up (ala Cojo) & Simmons would eat up Manu's minutes if he's resting. KA basically is going to take Belly's minutes but someone like Butler could play situational minutes if the team needs a shooter to space the floor.

Patty/Ray
Manu/Simmons
Kyle/Butler
West/Bonner
Diaw/Boban

I would expect either Danny or Kawhi to play w/ the bench unit since Patty/Manu/Kyle might be defensive liabilities on the perimeter especially without a legit rim protector. Patty will most likely play a lot of minutes w/ the starters esp. if Tony is struggling.

KA playing backup sf seems like the safe bet going in but I don't think it's going to be the outcome. Simmons will prove himself to be the better fit on offense and defense.

[Kawhitstorm]

KA playing backup sf seems like the safe bet going in but I don't think it's going to be the outcome. Simmons will prove himself to be the better fit on offense and defense.

Pop can play Kyle small ball 4 or SF depending on the match-up. But like I said either Danny or Kawhi is going to play w/ the second unit so Kyle is most likely not going to play a lot of minutes.

[SAGirl]

Simmons ability to hit 3's at a high % is in question but I'm expect him to hit them better than KA.

I don't want the offense to generate from KA trying to punish a supposed mismatch. Diaw can do that one-on-one stuff better than him. Offense needs someone with some speed that can get the defense shifting for help. Also KA won't many options to throw alleys to given the team tbh.

Manu should be guarding the wing with less athleticism at this point so if Simmons has good defense the decision will be easy.

You may very well be right on this. Just to be fair to you, and since I am relatively new, I wanted to tell you that I actually enjoy discussing things like this with others guys, so me engaging you in all of this argument is fun and I hope it is fun for others too. I really like to hear other guys points of view and sometimes I learn a thing or two myself. It will be very exciting for me to watch either guy. Kyle is very newbie TBH, but even last year he did have games where Pop gave him the ball and pushed him to score. Sometimes other guys don't have it, Manu's resting, Diaw is playing with the starters etc. You don't know, during a long season any number of things can happen. Last year yes, as a result of injuries, even a rookie Anderson had occasion to exploit mismatches, so I find it hard to conclude that he wont do it in his second year when he's probably going to be better and more assertive than the rookie version of himself. (By assertive I mean confident, last season, specially to start he was in very deferential mode and unsure what to do and looked lost. He took a lot of long range jump shots early, which was not his thing, and didn't look good at all. He was much better when the team really needed him in December, but then we didn't see much more of him after that. I don't expect the early version of him to show up, since he knows the offense much better now and if he is on the rotation even for 10 minutes for sure he's going to have a specific role, which wasn't the case last season).

Like I said, I am not sure he puts his whole game together this year either, and yet I do hope to continue to see glimpses of his potential. You are right about the alley oops. Those would be to Simmons, Kawhi and Aldridge, and he would need sufficient time playing with the latter 2 (unlikely) to throw those. Obviously him and Simmons play well off each other, having played a few months together in Austin and SL. I tend to think if they played well off each other, its likely going to be similar with Manu, except you had Simmons in a kind of Manu role in SL. If you were to look at it from that perspective you would come to the conclusion that of the two (barring any shooters taking a spot here), the better fit would be Anderson as matter of fact.

Simmons is going to be the rookie here, so he's more of an unknown in terms of how he will do in the NBA and yet I do expect to see him play well and I also think he will have occasion to make plays if Manu's sitting.

I actually tend to agree initially with Kawhitstorm can't believe it lol :whine

[pgardn]

You may very well be right on this. Just to be fair to you, and since I am relatively new, I wanted to tell you that I actually enjoy discussing things like this with others guys, so me engaging you in all of this argument is fun and I hope it is fun for others too. I really like to hear other guys points of view and sometimes I learn a thing or two myself. It will be very exciting for me to watch either guy. Kyle is very newbie TBH, but even last year he did have games where Pop gave him the ball and pushed him to score. Sometimes other guys don't have it, Manu's resting, Diaw is playing with the starters etc. You don't know, during a long season any number of things can happen. Last year yes, as a result of injuries, even a rookie Anderson had occasion to exploit mismatches, so I find it hard to conclude that he wont do it in his second year when he's probably going to be better and more assertive than the rookie version of himself. (By assertive I mean confident, last season, specially to start he was in very deferential mode and unsure what to do and looked lost. He took a lot of long range jump shots early, which was not his thing, and didn't look good at all. He was much better when the team really needed him in December, but then we didn't see much more of him after that. I don't expect the early version of him to show up, since he knows the offense much better now and if he is on the rotation even for 10 minutes for sure he's going to have a specific role, which wasn't the case last season).

Like I said, I am not sure he puts his whole game together this year either, and yet I do hope to continue to see glimpses of his potential. You are right about the alley oops. Those would be to Simmons, Kawhi and Aldridge, and he would need sufficient time playing with the latter 2 (unlikely) to throw those. Obviously him and Simmons play well off each other, having played a few months together in Austin and SL. I tend to think if they played well off each other, its likely going to be similar with Manu, except you had Simmons in a kind of Manu role in SL. If you were to look at it from that perspective you would come to the conclusion that of the two (barring any shooters taking a spot here), the better fit would be Anderson as matter of fact.

Simmons is going to be the rookie here, so he's more of an unknown in terms of how he will do in the NBA and yet I do expect to see him play well and I also think he will have occasion to make plays if Manu's sitting.

I actually tend to agree initially with Kawhitstorm can't believe it lol :whine

Is that you Becky?

[SAGirl]

I would expect either Danny or Kawhi to play w/ the bench unit since Patty/Manu/Kyle might be defensive liabilities on the perimeter especially without a legit rim protector. Patty will most likely play a lot of minutes w/ the starters esp. if Tony is struggling.

I found this very interesting. I am diverting from the subject of this thread being Jimmer, sorry Spurtacular....
but Pop could actually have Timmy or LMA some with the bench as well. They could start together but then get separated for some minutes and come close together to close out games. Not only meaning that you mix up the wing substitutions patterns a little, but also the big men. Its also going to be something to watch out as the season starts. Pop is probably going to want to keep guys together some so they get a rhythm, chemistry going, but then if things don't work out quite like you plan, that is when he starts with the adjustments and we are likely to see those not just in personnel but in the combo of 5 that Pop has together at times.

[SAGirl]

Is that you Becky?
I am a girl yes, but not Becky lol
Love basketball though and I am still learning to appreciate it. I only just became a fan a couple of years ago. Its become fascinating to me bc I am at that stage where I learn to appreciate the subtle over the just very casual fan that only appreciates athletic plays. I like strategies a lot.

[Kawhitstorm]

I found this very interesting. I am diverting from the subject of this thread being Jimmer, sorry Spurtacular....
but Pop could actually have Timmy or LMA some with the bench as well. They could start together but then get separated for some minutes and come close together to close out games. Not only meaning that you mix up the wing substitutions patterns a little, but also the big men. Its also going to be something to watch out as the season starts. Pop is probably going to want to keep guys together some so they get a rhythm, chemistry going, but then if things don't work out quite like you plan, that is when he starts with the adjustments and we are likely to see those not just in personnel but in the combo of 5 that Pop has together at times.

Pop probably wants LMA/Tim to play together as much as possible for the first half of the season along w/ the rest of the starter & D-West to play w/ the bench unit since they need to be comfortable in that role. As always, Pop is going to start playing mad scientist in the 2nd half of the season trying to figure out combination that might work in the postseason especially if the team has a cushion in the standing. Of course LMA is going to play more minutes than Tim so he'll be out there as the only legit rim protector when Tim is on the bench.

Oh, I didn't know you were really a girl so apologies for the dirty language but that's how we men deal w/ knuckle heads.

[SAGirl]

Oh, I didn't know you were really a girl so apologies for the dirty language but that's how we men deal w/ knuckle heads.

:lolI don't pay attention to that. lol I ignore guys who offend me like I would do in real life, and here its easier since I really can press ignore. Wouldn't that be easier in life to just press ignore on some ppl? :downspin:

But also you get a feel for the environment in the forum. I ignore a lot of guys signatures too. Have to accept boys being boys. We fine.

[tholdren]

Pop also paid Ayres for two years, now Ayres can't even keep a spot in a league in China.

In free agency, you buy low ( players that everyone else thinks isn't worth much ), then you hope they develop into something. Didn't happen with Ayres.
pendergraph was a terrible player during and after college, no reason to think he would amount to anything. Jimmy was the player of the year. you can't fake that, but you do have to be put in a position to succeed. Jeff couldn't dribble or catch. he made it to college, based on height

[pgardn]

The beauty of basketball is that it is much less structured than football yet basic themes resonate. Crappy pickup games vs. well coached games is a start. But when one actually has players as physically talented as NBA players, very subtle techniques are required to get the best out of a unit. The best physical athletes have to be more than they ever were mentally within a theme that does not necessarily fit their particular physical talents. Some just can't adjust. Others are simply so good physically that they must be played, but never quite reach the team's full potential because of their overuse of physical prowess.

I love the subtle balance. That's why there is no team like the Spurs. We have had some of the least physically gifted individuals that work beautifully as a team. 2014 against Miami. Will I ever see more pristine elegance of sport? I don't think so.

So there is only one conclusion:

F the Lakers and their fans for having to endure Kobe.

[Chinook]

pendergraph was a terrible player during and after college, no reason to think he would amount to anything. Jimmy was the player of the year. you can't fake that, but you do have to be put in a position to succeed. Jeff couldn't dribble or catch. he made it to college, based on height

Pop still inked Jeff for $4 Million guaranteed. That's eight times what he guaranteed Jimmer. I'm sure Pop had an idea of what of role Ayres was going to play, and Jeff just couldn't do it. There are objective data out there that demonstrate that Jimmer has NOT been a floor-spacer in the NBA. So frankly, if Pop is expecting that to change, we already know how it's going to fail. Now, if Pop is expecting him to be Beli lite, then we also know how it would succeed.

[Chinook]

Simmons ability to hit 3's at a high % is in question but I'm expect him to hit them better than KA.

I don't want the offense to generate from KA trying to punish a supposed mismatch. Diaw can do that one-on-one stuff better than him. Offense needs someone with some speed that can get the defense shifting for help. Also KA won't many options to throw alleys to given the team tbh.

Manu should be guarding the wing with less athleticism at this point so if Simmons has good defense the decision will be easy.

The offense doesn't need speed, per se. It needs someone who can drive. Anderson can indeed drive -- in fact, that's probably his best offensive feature. Just like there are more ways for a WR to get open than speed, there are more ways to beat your man to the rim than being fast. Anderson's length and finesse do wonders against perimeter players, and he would certainly force a rotation if he gets into the paint, especially with Kyle having the length to finish over weak rim protection.

Simmons' driving was better in the SL, but it also comes with more red flags. The angles he took relied on him being far more athletic than the guys he was facing, and that's not as likely in the pros. Jonathon's passing for sure looks shaky once you adjust the windows for big-league competition. Nothing about what Anderson did is mitigated against better defense. He's not going to go up against 6-10 SFs on the bench. He'll still have his advantages. And playing with a better supporting cast will only help him, as teams won't be keying in on him.

Simmons, Fredette and Butler each has a chance to get that last rotation spot, but it's Kyle's too lose. He just has more upside than the other players, and his rebounding would be a nice bonus given that the second-unit front court is rather small.

[Nathan89]

Pop can play Kyle small ball 4 or SF depending on the match-up. But like I said either Danny or Kawhi is going to play w/ the second unit so Kyle is most likely not going to play a lot of minutes.

With Diaw on the team I don't think the team will need or want Kyle to play any time at the 4 other than trying to get him some experience for the future.

[SAGirl]

Simmons' driving was better in the SL, but it also comes with more red flags. The angles he took relied on him being far more athletic than the guys he was facing, and that's not as likely in the pros. Jonathon's passing for sure looks shaky once you adjust the windows for big-league competition. Nothing about what Anderson did is mitigated against better defense. He's not going to go up against 6-10 SFs on the bench. He'll still have his advantages. And playing with a better supporting cast will only help him, as teams won't be keying in on him.

Agree with you fully. I had not thought about it from that perspective, but yes, Simmons got a lot of open dunks and we have to consider that rim protectors in SL and in Austin are almost non existent. Some "centers" in SL came all the way out on PnR coverage, which is why Simmons ran past them. You will not see that kind of egregious mistake in the NBA. We just don't know for sure about Simmons.

You are also right Kyle's game translates more fully except for the foul draw rate. The shots he took are the same he would get in the NBA. I had not thought about that, but you are right. He's tall and long enough to finish with those same floaters of his regardless and his post up game is the same. It might be even easier for him as he will have better teammates. He drew all the best defenders in SL, not saying they are excellent or anything, but he drew the other team's best defenders, most of them guys who are in the league, young draft picks. I chuckle inside to myself bc in scrimmages he's drawing Leonard. :downspin:

[Kawhitstorm]

With Diaw on the team I don't think the team will need or want Kyle to play any time at the 4 other than trying to get him some experience for the future.

Let's say Tim is resting & Diaw starts, in that case Kyle could play backup 4. There are also times when Diaw looks out of it & disinterested in the regular season thus Kyle would be an option if Pop decides to bench Diaw. Not to mention Pop playing mad scientist & throwing out weird lineups when the team is struggling.

If you look at the Warriors, even though he's a point guard, they essentially play Shaun Livingston multiple positions b/c Iggy plays point forward & handles the ball. Last season they also had D-Lee playing as another point forward thus you can mix & match through out the game. Kyle isn't as good a defender as Livingston but he knows how to use his length & is a high IQ player so he can get by as a backup if ReDick/Korver can hold their own against starting perimeter players.

[Kawhitstorm]

Agree with you fully. I had not thought about it from that perspective, but yes, Simmons got a lot of open dunks and we have to consider that rim protectors in SL and in Austin are almost non existent. Some "centers" in SL came all the way out on PnR coverage, which is why Simmons ran past them. You will not see that kind of egregious mistake in the NBA. We just don't know for sure about Simmons.

You are also right Kyle's game translates more fully except for the foul draw rate. The shots he took are the same he would get in the NBA. I had not thought about that, but you are right. He's tall and long enough to finish with those same floaters of his regardless and his post up game is the same. It might be even easier for him as he will have better teammates. He drew all the best defenders in SL, not saying they are excellent or anything, but he drew the other team's best defenders, most of them guys who are in the league, young draft picks. I chuckle inside to myself bc in scrimmages he's drawing Leonard. :downspin:

Aspects of Simmons game that can translate are his "motor" & finishing ability. If you look at Patrick Beverly the guy basically became a starter by being a high motor guy who can irritate opposing guards other than that he really didn't have any quantifiable skill to be a starter. Simmons isn't as much of a fake tough guy as Beverly to become an irritant but he is actually lankier & more versatile on the defensive end. Besides, Simmons is already a better finisher than Danny & a better shooter than Tony Allen so he can get by as a 3rd string backup guard/wing.

Kyle would struggle defensively against starting forwards but he can hold his own against backup. On offense, he already might be the best at drawing fouls on the team b/c he's so crafty.

[Nathan89]

Let's say Tim is resting & Diaw starts, in that case Kyle could play backup 4. There are also times when Diaw looks out of it & disinterested in the regular season thus Kyle would be an option if Pop decides to bench Diaw. Not to mention Pop playing mad scientist & throwing out weird lineups when the team is struggling.

If you look at the Warriors, even though he's a point guard, they essentially play Shaun Livingston multiple positions b/c Iggy plays point forward & handles the ball. Last season they also had D-Lee playing as another point forward thus you can mix & match through out the game. Kyle isn't as good a defender as Livingston but he knows how to use his length & is a high IQ player so he can get by as a backup if ReDick/Korver can hold their own against starting perimeter players.

In that case Boban would play unless he's not useful and even then Bonner is likely to get the spot. My discussion was mostly regarding situations with full line-ups.

The defense is a big factor. He also more athletic. He's better in the post and he probably gets more favorable matchups against pgs than KA will be getting.

[Nathan89]

Take away KA's fts and you inefficient offensive player tbh.

[Nathan89]

Only major weakness with livingston is his 3's. He can take defenders off the dribble, post, and play off the ball via cuts and running the court quickly. KA doesn't do any of those things as well as him.

[Kawhitstorm]

Only major weakness with livingston is his 3's. He can take defenders off the dribble, post, and play off the ball via cuts and running the court quickly. KA doesn't do any of those things as well as him.

KA can shoot 3 & draw fouls better than Livingston plus he can post-up just a well except he doesn't have a fade-away (KA instead has a hookshot). Livingston is for sure quicker/faster but he's one of the best backup guards in the league for a reason.....nobody is asking KA to be an elite backup player just competent enough to get minutes.

If KA can ever become a 40% 3 point shooter even w/ his slow ass release (Diaw shot 40% in 2013-14) then it will be a game changer since he can put the ball on the floor & draw fouls, drive-and-kick or score w/ his floaters if defender run him off the line. Draymond Green for example became an offensive weapon once he became a threat from the 3 point line before that he was a liability on offense.

[SAGirl]

Aspects of Simmons game that can translate are his "motor" & finishing ability. If you look at Patrick Beverly the guy basically became a starter by being a high motor guy who can irritate opposing guards other than that he really didn't have any quantifiable skill to be a starter. Simmons isn't as much of a fake tough guy as Beverly to become an irritant but he is actually lankier & more versatile on the defensive end. Besides, Simmons is already a better finisher than Danny & a better shooter than Tony Allen so he can get by as a 3rd string backup guard/wing.

Kyle would struggle defensively against starting forwards but he can hold his own against backup. On offense, he already might be the best at drawing fouls on the team b/c he's so crafty.

I agree with you on his potential as 3rd string backup guard/wing. He does have tools to give you some quality minutes. I think he does have potential as a defender and have stated that repeatedly, but I will note he is not as long as Danny, nor has his famous quick feet. He will be adequate for a backup defender though and I am satisfied with that. What I have questions about are the same as Chinook mentions. I saw him in Austin a lot and I know for a fact you do not want him to dribble under pressure. He will be an adequate SG, but not PG. He turned the ball over at a ridiculously high rate in Austin when they lost Cotton and if you notice in SL, they always had him with a ball caretaker PG. You also doubt about his creation for himself and others out the PnR. Etched in my mind is how he ran past Tavares, but Tavares was all the way out almost in 3 pt land territory. PnR coverage in SL was just atrocious. His 3 pt. shooting is also a huge question mark. CoJo for example famously shot very well the 3 ball in Austin and was very reluctant to shoot in NBA, and didn't have the best % (and yes this year he was 36% but he took less 3's than he has ever taken in his career while playing the most minutes. No one who saw him play will mistake him for a 3 pt shooter. Simmons played the same in SL, a very reluctant 3 pt shooter) Again, I like him. I think he has some tools. I am eager to see him play and I think some things will translate, the things that characterize him as a wing for the most part. Cutting to the basket, catching on the move. I like that he finishes strong and will be able to do so through contact as well. He's a prototypical wing and will be better playing off others, as lanes will open up for drives to the basket. I think Manu can find him on passes the same as Kyle, if not better. I stated he has potential, just not the passing and creating for others. That aspect is the one that is very risky to assume.

I am assuming Kyle's foul draw rate will decline because of the Daye/Ayers factor: a lot of guys in SL are foul prone. It is just a reality. However, he does have a lot of craftiness and changes speed, throws fakes, changes direction, throws hesitations, has a crossover, will fake left and go right, will catch guys in the air, can finish with either hand, dribble with either hand, and even pass accurately with either hand. The guy is incredibly skilled in that respect. I even think he's better in post ups when he doesn't try to back down a defender as he's not the strongest guy, like a Leonard. He's at his best when he dribbles around them. He is so crafty, that if he was more athletic, for sure he would have been a lottery pick. Even as a defender he has potential, just not in isolation. As a help defender he's very good, bc he has good instincts. He's also picked pockets plenty even in the NBA. Picked the pocket of Rudy Gay in preseason, and Monta Ellis in that Mavericks game. He gets a lot of deflections and will block shots without fouling because he has incredible length and good timing. I am really high on his potential quite honestly. My one question about him is his 3 pt. shooting. Pop's too apparently, therefore here we are pondering the wisdom of Jimmer vs. Butler vs. Williams vs. Thomas et. al.

[SAGirl]

Only major weakness with livingston is his 3's. He can take defenders off the dribble, post, and play off the ball via cuts and running the court quickly. KA doesn't do any of those things as well as him.
Well Kyle has only just turned 22 and when you saw him this past year was a rookie that was not counted on. Give him a chance this year and we will see. I will be very excited when he kicks Livingston's behind... lol

[Kawhitstorm]

I agree with you on his potential as 3rd string backup guard/wing. He does have tools to give you some quality minutes. I think he does have potential as a defender and have stated that repeatedly, but I will note he is not as long as Danny, nor has his famous quick feet. He will be adequate for a backup defender though and I am satisfied with that. What I have questions about are the same as Chinook mentions. I saw him in Austin a lot and I know for a fact you do not want him to dribble under pressure. He will be an adequate SG, but not PG. He turned the ball over at a ridiculously high rate in Austin when they lost Cotton and if you notice in SL, they always had him with a ball caretaker PG. You also doubt about his creation for himself and others out the PnR. Etched in my mind is how he ran past Tavares, but Tavares was all the way out almost in 3 pt land territory. PnR coverage in SL was just atrocious. His 3 pt. shooting is also a huge question mark. CoJo for example famously shot very well the 3 ball in Austin and was very reluctant to shoot in NBA, and didn't have the best % (and yes this year he was 36% but he took less 3's than he has ever taken in his career while playing the most minutes. No one who saw him play will mistake him for a 3 pt shooter. Simmons played the same in SL, a very reluctant 3 pt shooter) Again, I like him. I think he has some tools. I am eager to see him play and I think some things will translate, the things that characterize him as a wing for the most part. Cutting to the basket, catching on the move. I like that he finishes strong and will be able to do so through contact as well. He's a prototypical wing and will be better playing off others, as lanes will open up for drives to the basket. I think Manu can find him on passes the same as Kyle, if not better. I stated he has potential, just not the passing and creating for others. That aspect is the one that is very risky to assume.

I am assuming Kyle's foul draw rate will decline because of the Daye/Ayers factor: a lot of guys in SL are foul prone. It is just a reality. However, he does have a lot of craftiness and changes speed, throws fakes, changes direction, throws hesitations, has a crossover, will fake left and go right, will catch guys in the air, can finish with either hand, dribble with either hand, and even pass accurately with either hand. The guy is incredibly skilled in that respect. I even think he's better in post ups when he doesn't try to back down a defender as he's not the strongest guy, like a Leonard. He's at his best when he dribbles around them. He is so crafty, that if he was more athletic, for sure he would have been a lottery pick. Even as a defender he has potential, just not in isolation. As a help defender he's very good, bc he has good instincts. He's also picked pockets plenty even in the NBA. Picked the pocket of Rudy Gay in preseason, and Monta Ellis in that Mavericks game. He gets a lot of deflections and will block shots without fouling because he has incredible length and good timing. I am really high on his potential quite honestly. My one question about him is his 3 pt. shooting. Pop's too apparently, therefore here we are pondering the wisdom of Jimmer vs. Butler vs. Williams vs. Thomas et. al.

I would compare Simmons to Iman Shumpert; both are somewhat of a combo guard but they aren't that great of a ball-handler/decision maker or shooter to be a point guard or shooting guard. They are both super athletic w/ size which makes them an asset on defense & although their jump shot is suspect they both can drive/slash & finish at the rim.

As far as Kyle, on his post up he tends to use a spin move to get to the rim or use his length to shoot over defenders after he gets to his sweet spot rather than backing defenders down all the way into the restricted area like Diaw.

[tholdren]

Pop still inked Jeff for $4 Million guaranteed. That's eight times what he guaranteed Jimmer. I'm sure Pop had an idea of what of role Ayres was going to play, and Jeff just couldn't do it. There are objective data out there that demonstrate that Jimmer has NOT been a floor-spacer in the NBA. So frankly, if Pop is expecting that to change, we already know how it's going to fail. Now, if Pop is expecting him to be Beli lite, then we also know how it would succeed.

I find it odd that people would think that Jimmer would be signed to stand in a corner, but his ability to create and take his own shot will ultimately lead to spacing, and/or the inability to double/help. It's too bad NO didnt use Jimmer effectively with Davis, but they had a very similar gunner type in Evans/Holliday.

The other portion is - Decisions like Jeff is baffling. He couldn't do it in HS, he couldn't do it in college, he couldn't do it in the NBA, why sign him?

[tholdren]

The offense doesn't need speed, per se. It needs someone who can drive. Anderson can indeed drive -- in fact, that's probably his best offensive feature. Just like there are more ways for a WR to get open than speed, there are more ways to beat your man to the rim than being fast. Anderson's length and finesse do wonders against perimeter players, and he would certainly force a rotation if he gets into the paint, especially with Kyle having the length to finish over weak rim protection.

Simmons' driving was better in the SL, but it also comes with more red flags. The angles he took relied on him being far more athletic than the guys he was facing, and that's not as likely in the pros. Jonathon's passing for sure looks shaky once you adjust the windows for big-league competition. Nothing about what Anderson did is mitigated against better defense. He's not going to go up against 6-10 SFs on the bench. He'll still have his advantages. And playing with a better supporting cast will only help him, as teams won't be keying in on him.

Simmons, Fredette and Butler each has a chance to get that last rotation spot, but it's Kyle's too lose. He just has more upside than the other players, and his rebounding would be a nice bonus given that the second-unit front court is rather small.

I agree with most of what you are saying. I would take "what SA needs" one step further. SA needs a player that can create their own shot, not just "drive."

The point about athleticism is also solid, but on the flip side, I feel like what makes KA successful in SL/DL is his IQ. The players he is playing against are not necessarily athletic, nor intelligent. When he gets to the real floor, the players still aren't too intelligent, but the athleticism might get him. KA does have a higher ceiling than all listed. I just hope he gets some big minutes this year. He's been around long enough to know what he is, and what he isn't. Now, he just needs time.

[Birn]

I'm convinced that Simmons will have some positive impact this season. He stood out in SL due to his athleticism and playmaking ability. He's definitely an NBA player in my view. He's also very smart and knows how to use his teammates. In SL, he could easily slash and get to the basket. In the NBA, he's going against better athletes but he's also playing alongside better players. If he can't get into the lane because of good help defense, he knows he has several elite shooters on the floor that he can pass to for a better shot. He knows not to force anything and is a willing passer which will make him a solid contributer in time.

[SAGirl]

I agree with most of what you are saying. I would take "what SA needs" one step further. SA needs a player that can create their own shot, not just "drive."

The point about athleticism is also solid, but on the flip side, I feel like what makes KA successful in SL/DL is his IQ. The players he is playing against are not necessarily athletic, nor intelligent. When he gets to the real floor, the players still aren't too intelligent, but the athleticism might get him. KA does have a higher ceiling than all listed. I just hope he gets some big minutes this year. He's been around long enough to know what he is, and what he isn't. Now, he just needs time.

I am at a disadvantage when talking about Jimmer because he's polarizing and I have not watched him play on my own. Of Simmons and Kyle I have strong grasp and opinions because I have watched them both play whole games (not just highlights) in Austin and SL and in Kyle's case, also the NBA. Neither guy is a knockdown 3 pt. shooter, but they are versatile and can do different things. Hopefully, they can add the 3 pt shot to their arsenal to be more complete players. Jimmer is a versatile player by all accounts. Even Chinook, who has been critical of his slow shooting as a spot up guy, has admitted that he could be useful in different ways. I wish him the best. He has as good a shot as any of the other wings being discussed of making it.

I think a little bit of whether he makes it or not is not entirely on him, but on the roster needs. If Kyle and Simmons really cannot buy a 3 in practice it would be concerning, to where you might feel you need to pick a wing with size in case there are injuries. Thankfully for Jimmer, I think these two guys are terrific options TBH and I think they will shoot it well enough to where you feel ok rolling with them and picking up an energizer scorer of small size like Jimmer.

[DPG21920]

The offense doesn't need speed, per se. It needs someone who can drive. Anderson can indeed drive -- in fact, that's probably his best offensive feature. Just like there are more ways for a WR to get open than speed, there are more ways to beat your man to the rim than being fast. Anderson's length and finesse do wonders against perimeter players, and he would certainly force a rotation if he gets into the paint, especially with Kyle having the length to finish over weak rim protection.

Simmons' driving was better in the SL, but it also comes with more red flags. The angles he took relied on him being far more athletic than the guys he was facing, and that's not as likely in the pros. Jonathon's passing for sure looks shaky once you adjust the windows for big-league competition. Nothing about what Anderson did is mitigated against better defense. He's not going to go up against 6-10 SFs on the bench. He'll still have his advantages. And playing with a better supporting cast will only help him, as teams won't be keying in on him.

Simmons, Fredette and Butler each has a chance to get that last rotation spot, but it's Kyle's too lose. He just has more upside than the other players, and his rebounding would be a nice bonus given that the second-unit front court is rather small.

Disagree about Kyle's upside being greater. IMO, Simmons ability to be a legit defensive option means more to the team than Kyle's upside offensively. Especially since Simmons has shown enough all around offensive game slashing to be really helpful.

I agree with what you're saying overall, I just think Simmons skillset (even though it has more questionmarks than Kyle) is the skillset with the most upside. Having someone legit defensively to give DG a breather is massive.

[DPG21920]

Also with regards to Simmons I don't think SA would put him in a spot to be a "PG". I think the importance of Simmons ball handling comes from what Pop was saying in the videos with Kawhi; People have to be willing to put the ball on the floor when there is an opportunity which Simmons should be fine with.

[Kawhitstorm]

I find it odd that people would think that Jimmer would be signed to stand in a corner, but his ability to create and take his own shot will ultimately lead to spacing, and/or the inability to double/help. It's too bad NO didnt use Jimmer effectively with Davis, but they had a very similar gunner type in Evans/Holliday.

The other portion is - Decisions like Jeff is baffling. He couldn't do it in HS, he couldn't do it in college, he couldn't do it in the NBA, why sign him?

Idiot, Jimmer lost his backup PG spot to Norris Cole after Holliday got injured & eventually lost garbage time minutes to Tony Douglas. #NoExcuses

[tholdren]

Idiot, Jimmer lost his backup PG spot to Norris Cole after Holliday got injured & eventually lost garbage time minutes to Tony Douglas. #NoExcuses
what you wrote has nothing to do with the quote you responded. can you read?

[Kawhitstorm]

what you wrote has nothing to do with the quote you responded. can you read?

"It's too bad NO didnt use Jimmer effectively with Davis, but they had a very similar gunner type in Evans/Holliday."....Idiot, Holliday was injured & the Pelicans TRADED for Norris Cole b/c Jimmer wasn't cutting it. He LOST his minutes b/c he was an incompetent backup PG.

[Nathan89]

Didn't NO fire their coach?

[Nathan89]

Also it has been mentioned it is easier to make 3's in dleague in regards to Simmons but KA shot significantly worse from 3 in dleague.

[Kawhitstorm]

Didn't NO fire their coach?

It was clearly b/c he didn't play Jimmer just like every coach that Jimmer played under as a pro.

[Nathan89]

Just looking at the pre-draft measurements and Simmons bombed the agility test big time. Not sure how many attempts you get but that seemed odd to me. In summer league his reach around defense was a bothering and it happened too often for my liking.

[Kawhitstorm]

Also it has been mentioned it is easier to make 3's in dleague in regards to Simmons but KA shot significantly worse from 3 in dleague.

Nobody is expecting Simmons to come off screen & launch 3s off the curl. The question is whether he can make spot up corner 3s. Last I checked CoJo (the guy Simmons is replacing defensively) wasn't a shooter but he was still in the regular season rotation.

[Kawhitstorm]

Just looking at the pre-draft measurements and Simmons bombed the agility test big time. Not sure how many attempts you get but that seemed odd to me. In summer league his reach around defense was a bothering and it happened too often for my liking.

Are you really using pre-draft measurements to judge a players on-court performance? Simmons has a habit of reaching but so do guys such as Tony Allen/Russell Westbrook otherwise he's an above average defender & one of the best shot blockers from a guard position.

[Chinook]

Disagree about Kyle's upside being greater. IMO, Simmons ability to be a legit defensive option means more to the team than Kyle's upside offensively. Especially since Simmons has shown enough all around offensive game slashing to be really helpful.

I agree with what you're saying overall, I just think Simmons skillset (even though it has more questionmarks than Kyle) is the skillset with the most upside. Having someone legit defensively to give DG a breather is massive.

Simmons' defense and defensive potential especially are getting massively overrated. I didn't think he was anything more than competent in the summer league, and that was just one-on-one. Anderson showed a lot defensively off the ball and surprisingly in transition. Obviously, Simmons is a better option to defend quick players, but the idea that Anderson is some liability as a bench SF is untrue. He can do a lot of help a defense, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him post an elite DRtg next season (even with all of the issues with that stat).

[Nathan89]

Are you really using pre-draft measurements to judge a players on-court performance? Simmons has a habit of reaching but so do guys such as Tony Allen/Russell Westbrook otherwise he's an above average defender & one of the best shot blockers from a guard position.

Pre-draft measurements aren't meaningless that's why they do them. Also was wondering how many attempts they get because the measurement was off the charts terrible. On top of that I was connecting what he frequently does on the court to a specific measurement. I'm still higher on him than KA. So no, I'm not using one thing that seems unlikely to be representative of his athletic ability to judge Simmons.

[ceperez]

Simmons' defense and defensive potential especially are getting massively overrated. I didn't think he was anything more than competent in the summer league, and that was just one-on-one. Anderson showed a lot defensively off the ball and surprisingly in transition. Obviously, Simmons is a better option to defend quick players, but the idea that Anderson is some liability as a bench SF is untrue. He can do a lot of help a defense, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him post an elite DRtg next season (even with all of the issues with that stat).

Any opponent will have difficulty hiding their weak defensive player by having him guard either Simmons or Anderson.

I think Simmons can be a good defensive player (he's got Tony Allen athleticism if not better). Anderson will need help from TV defense, but his length does help him in situations.

[SAGirl]

Nobody is expecting Simmons to come off screen & launch 3s off the curl. The question is whether he can make spot up corner 3s. Last I checked CoJo (the guy Simmons is replacing defensively) wasn't a shooter but he was still in the regular season rotation.
CoJo wasn't the best fit next to Manu though, and although he was very efficient on his own shots, the team wasn't exactly outscoring other teams on the regular with him out there. I thought we picked up Ray McCallum to play the CoJo minutes.

Simmons to me gets the Manu backup minutes and situational minutes depending on injuries to Kawhi or Danny. There is a chance he may get the backup SF role. I am personally thinking Kyle gets those minutes, but I am not so arrogant as to think my opinion trumps all. :lol He still has to go and earn it. Even so, considering possible injuries and garbage time, there are minutes around for both guys.

The issue for Pop is that neither of these 3 (Ray, Kyle and Simmons) is known as a shooter, with the capacity to get hot and score in bunches. That was the issue I identified from Pop's statements concerning Marco's scoring ability. The team relied a lot on Marco last year, specially with Patty out, Cojo not being a shooter and Manu having regular low scoring nights. I think the concern might be even deeper than that, as Manu's production cannot be taken for granted.

I think Patty is already the scorer Pop wants but you need one other, bc if Patty is hurt, its trouble. Same with Danny. That role is perfectly scripted for Jimmer. It's a small role, but its important nevertheless.

Can Kyle emerge as the scorer Pop needs? I don't know if he's ready yet. It might be too soon. Can Simmons? Will be a rookie. Rookies notoriously struggle in their first year.... We don't know.

[Spurtacular]

I thought we picked up Ray McCallum to play the CoJo minutes.

If that even, tbh.

RM is not a great shooter, passer, or defender. He's a decent ball handler, passer, driver. He's not as quick as CoJo either; so, he won't be as good at drive and kicks either.

[Kawhitstorm]

If that even, tbh.

RM is not a great shooter, passer, or defender. He's a decent ball handler, passer, driver. He's not as quick as CoJo either; so, he won't be as good at drive and kicks either.

CoJo was never a drive & kick guy. He drove to score & wasn't even as aggressive as Ray.

[tholdren]

CoJo was never a drive & kick guy. He drove to score & wasn't even as aggressive as Ray.
Yet SA would have rather had Cojo than Ray.... odd

[Kawhitstorm]

The issue for Pop is that neither of these 3 (Ray, Kyle and Simmons) is known as a shooter, with the capacity to get hot and score in bunches. That was the issue I identified from Pop's statements concerning Marco's scoring ability. The team relied a lot on Marco last year, specially with Patty out, Cojo not being a shooter and Manu having regular low scoring nights. I think the concern might be even deeper than that, as Manu's production cannot be taken for granted.

I think Patty is already the scorer Pop wants but you need one other, bc if Patty is hurt, its trouble. Same with Danny. That role is perfectly scripted for Jimmer. It's a small role, but its important nevertheless.

Can Kyle emerge as the scorer Pop needs? I don't know if he's ready yet. It might be too soon. Can Simmons? Will be a rookie. Rookies notoriously struggle in their first year.... We don't know.

Jimmer can't be that guy b/c there will be too many midgets on the floor. Gary Neal was playing over Patty & Stephen Jackson was in the Belly role back in 2012-13 then Patty took Neal's spot & Belly replaced Jackson. Right now the spots that's still needs to be filled is the backup wing spot which is most likely Butler's to lose.

[Kawhitstorm]

Yet SA would have rather had Cojo than Ray.... odd

CoJo was a game manager & a pretty good defender plus he knew the system. Ray is more like Tony & is a scoring guard.

[Ditty]

McCallum is not getting cut, and he is a better shooter and scorer than Cory Joseph :lol

The final spot with come down to either Jimmer, Williams or Butler.

Simply who shoots the best in preseason games will win the job imo, and still have to worry about getting cut around the buyout deadline for another player.

[DPG21920]

Simmons' defense and defensive potential especially are getting massively overrated. I didn't think he was anything more than competent in the summer league, and that was just one-on-one. Anderson showed a lot defensively off the ball and surprisingly in transition. Obviously, Simmons is a better option to defend quick players, but the idea that Anderson is some liability as a bench SF is untrue. He can do a lot of help a defense, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him post an elite DRtg next season (even with all of the issues with that stat).

Well to me it's not about what he did in SL, just the potential. As always, many times a player never reaches that potential for various reasons. But in speaking in terms of potential I think Simmons has a chance to be a solid wing defender. Kyle isn't terrible and wasn't trying to imply that, but I do think his defensive ceiling is pretty limited. He can be fine, but not someone you can go say "sick 'em" and Kyle does that job.

Simmons has the physical tools to be better but of course it's far from certain he reaches said potential.

[Spurtacular]

CoJo was never a drive & kick guy. He drove to score & wasn't even as aggressive as Ray.

Nonsense.

[Spurtacular]

Pop still inked Jeff for $4 Million guaranteed. That's eight times what he guaranteed Jimmer. I'm sure Pop had an idea of what of role Ayres was going to play, and Jeff just couldn't do it. There are objective data out there that demonstrate that Jimmer has NOT been a floor-spacer in the NBA. So frankly, if Pop is expecting that to change, we already know how it's going to fail. Now, if Pop is expecting him to be Beli lite, then we also know how it would succeed.

Contracts are based on market forces. They're not straight-up talent evaluations. Someone like you knows this. You're manipulating your arguments to soothe your contempt for Jimmer and/or Jimmer fans.

[SAGirl]

I am actually excited to see Jimmer in the preseason TBH. We have hyped and debated this guy so much!!!! :lol

If Anderson and Simmons can be your wing backup options, and Jimmer plays well, I think he's better than Butler, Williams or whomever is at the end competing for that spot.

[Spurtacular]

I am actually excited to see Jimmer in the preseason TBH. We have hyped and debated this guy so much!!!! :lol

Good chance Jimmer will be a double digit (average) scorer in preseason. He's done well in previous preseasons and summer leagues. But a lot will depend on how much Pop wants to play him.

[Chinook]

Contracts are based on market forces. They're not straight-up talent evaluations. Someone like you knows this. You're manipulating your arguments to soothe your contempt for Jimmer and/or Jimmer fans.

It's a rebuttal, not a constructive. I was merely pointing out that Pop saying Jimmer is going to do something doesn't mean it's fact. Pop has been very wrong before evaluating players. Anyways, Ayres got above market value. The Spurs paid him because they believed in him, not because of his market.

[SAGirl]

It's a rebuttal, not a constructive. I was merely pointing out that Pop saying Jimmer is going to do something doesn't mean it's fact. Pop has been very wrong before evaluating players. Anyways, Ayres got above market value. The Spurs paid him because they believed in him, not because of his market.

Yea, he was an athletic big, who was active, and supposedly had a midrange shot. I can imagine the Spurs thought his athleticism would help him play fast paced with Manu, and defend PnR well. If he could do that, his contract was a good deal. It turned out unfortunately that he didn't have range on his shot, which completely destroyed his usefulness, as you then had to play him close to the basket as a center, which defeated the point of having him defend PnR as well. You could not play him next to Timmy at all, and from there on it was downhill from him, bc as a center, he could not be the roll man with Manu as he could not catch on the move and didn't even have skill around the basket. There just wasn't one thing he did well. I think if had even been a decent roll man, he would have had a place in the league, like a Brendan Wright type, but he didn't even have that. Bc he was undersized, and not particularly long for a center, he wasn't much of a rim protector, either. On top of that, as gravy, he turned out to be foul prone, which Pop hates. He was uncoordinated I think. Ayres was the definition of a bust signee.

Anyways, I think he didn't pan out bc they could not play him as a 4 at all. The fact he had to play center completely negated whatever benefit they thought he would bring bc at that spot he didn't have any advantage whatsoever and his deficiencies were magnified. I wish him the best but I honestly didn't like him as a player bc his limitations were too glaring and he didn't bring one thing at an elite level. For all my criticism on Bonner, he had elite shooting and was neither foul prone, nor mistake prone. He's also limited, but he did bring value. :blah I do hope that if they sign Jimmer, he is competent at what they sign him for. If he is to be a jolt of scoring to be used situationally, by all means maybe he can fulfill that and not be a bust signee (regarless of price, just saying he can hopefully fulfill the role they have for him, unlike Ayers).

[Gladney to see you]

Apparently you can't be a kawhi fan and like Jimmer as well.

[BD24]

Fucking christ this thing is almost at 70 pages. Seriously? For this end of the bench at best scrub.

[SAGirl]

Fucking christ this thing is almost at 70 pages. Seriously? For this end of the bench at best scrub.
lol
There is a lot off-the-topic discussion for the last maybe 10 pages? The first 60, yea too many lol

[Nathan89]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XweaxyI5PmA
even kawahi has better handles than this scrub and he moves are as slow as klye anderson:lmao



His moves were as slow as KA's. Only difference is he has someone pulling him back.

[Kawhitstorm]

Fucking christ this thing is almost at 70 pages. Seriously? For this end of the bench at best scrub.

Folks want to have the last word thus the back-and-forth isn't going to stop until Jimmer is eventually cut.

[Ice009]

Look, I actually like Jimmer as he seems like a great guy, but he has to bring something to the team if he's going to make it and stick. If it's for scoring like some people have said, then I hope he can at least play average defense.

[Spurtacular]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XweaxyI5PmA
even kawahi has better handles than this scrub and he moves are as slow as klye anderson:lmao


Maybe, you should actually watch the video this time.

[Spurtacular]

Apparently you can't be a kawhi fan and like Jimmer as well.

I've liked them both since they were in college. I always thought it'd be awesome to see them on the same team.

[BatManu20]

651101814331277312

[SAGirl]

651101814331277312
:toast thanks for sharing.

Pop or one of the coaches (maybe Ime Udoka during SL) famously said something similar about Daye, that they wanted to see other things from him, and show that he could be a more complete player, rebounding, defending and doing other things beside just shoot. (He didn't shoot well either, which was probably his final doom). At least Jimmer has been shooting well. Not a bad guy to take a gamble on, about the same age as Daye was, with good character and work ethic.

[BatManu20]

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