Official 2022 NBA Free Agency Thread

[Atl Spur]

Kev is in playoff shape……. Call this man the CHEF!!!!

[tbdog]

This is why signing someone like him always makes more sense than signing someone like McDermott.

Depends. McDermott will fetch more interest from playoff teams. Also if McDermott was in the cavs instead of him, that trade still happens.

[exstatic]

In today's NBA, you can't count on virtually anything long term. It's a good amount of talent, but unless Mobley can become it (and even if he is, it's doubtful he'll be a 1st option on a contender), they lack a superstar, have questionable 4-5 spacing, no 3 and D wings and are reliant on two small guards.

Of course they could separate from that mid tier, but I don't see a championship formula.




Despite the agenda driven media predictably gushing and playing their usual narrative/mythologizing game, Ainge did the logical thing and had immense leverage. The job mostly comes down to a combination of luck and not shooting yourself in the foot.

One thing I will give the Cavaliers credit for, was signing Markkanen. They didn't care about fit defensively and instead focused on a rare case of a decent young asset available essentially for free and one year later parlayed him into part of a blockbuster trade.

This is why signing someone like him always makes more sense than signing someone like McDermott.

Markkanen was salary ballast. Three unprotected picks, and two unprotected pick swaps were parlayed into a blockbuster trade.

[KingKev]

^ yeah tough to say is they were just lucky getting off Markkanen’s deal or it was a strategic signing knowing they could eventually move him. If you look at their recent trades with Jarret Allen, LaVert, Prince, Rubio etc they all seem to be impressively strategic though.

Cavs can probably clear 20-30mm in cap space next offseason when Love and LaVert roll off the books.

[Atl Spur]

Cleveland’s fanbase sat through two 19 win seasons to help aid in these “ smart moves towards a rebuild “ in addition to gutting their future assets; this fanbase would never accept this without bitching non stop! Let’s see who gets to a title first, Cleveland or San Antonio….. don’t be prisoners of the moment!

[KingKev]

Cleveland’s fanbase sat through two 19 win seasons to help aid in these “ smart moves towards a rebuild “ in addition to gutting their future assets; this fanbase would never accept this without bitching non stop! Let’s see who gets to a title first, Cleveland or San Antonio….. don’t be prisoners of the moment!

and we are well on our way to sit through at least 5 years of 25 win seasons with nothing to show for it.

Those trades were smart moves for any team. Contender or rebuilding. I challenge you to take a quick look at the chain of trades that got them this current roster. It’s pretty impressive.

Getting Jarret Allen for basically a first, trading Taureen Prince for Rubio, trading Rubio for LeVert, resigning Rubio, not paying draft capital to offload Love when he looked finished but instead rebuilding his value as a backup big.

[Ariel]

There are a number of teams that are not big spenders and have been building themselves from the ground up in a very impressive manner like Cleveland, Memphis, Toronto, NO, and if we go by a shorter time window I'd add Detroit (Troy Weaver era), Indiana and Utah (Ainge era). Also I'm not a fan of Presti's antics and his drafting is overrated, but no one can say he doesn't have a plan for OKC. Then you have the teams that, on top of being well managed, have more resources and are already ahead like Golden State, Boston, Milwaukee, Dallas, Miami, etc. So the point is, we no longer have a significant competitive advantage (in talent, resources or management) to keep passing on opportunities, this last year has given me hope, but I wish the FO takes notes from Utah's moves and doesn't half a$$ the rebuild. If we can get a solid return from our veterans now, we should take it.

[Atl Spur]

Most teams try to emulate us. Our teams finger prints are all over these winning orgs as well as those up and coming:) We haven’t forgot how to win nor team build. Sit back and relax and enjoy the process��������

[Payote75]

Most teams try to emulate us. Our teams finger prints are all over these winning orgs as well as those up and coming:) We haven’t forgot how to win nor team build. Sit back and relax and enjoy the process��������

I agree with this it's the one thing that keeps me sane through all this but I can't help but see some glaring mistakes that even some of us in this forum who are regular Joe's see as well. Having said that We had a returning Admiral we lucked out with tanking rules were different and got Timmy and Parker and manu were really lucky to be drafted it's like being struck by lightning 4 times in the same spot that's my concern. Tanking won't be as easy as then we would need that lady luck to just get that pick then hit on see mega stars like manu and Parker it's a big ask to do that especially when a lot of our staff is scattered throughout the NBA but like I said the other day like it or lump it weist wait and see how it goes. Question is how long will we be able to wait before rumblings start getting strong of possibly moving the team if attendance dwindles etc crossed and I've liked some of our young players I was ready to add now to them but we went the opposite way so let's see.

[TD 21]

Markkanen was salary ballast. Three unprotected picks, and two unprotected pick swaps were parlayed into a blockbuster trade.

None of the players were the primary focus, but they also wanted some decent young players back too.

Even while re-building/tanking, teams generally still want a competent team in place and they now have the makings with Sexton to take Mitchell's role as the first option and Markkanen to give them their first starting four since Millsap in '13.

Of course, they're not nearly good enough to have much/if any affect on their draft odds, plus they could have decent resale value down the line.

[KingKev]

None of the players were the primary focus, but they also wanted some decent young players back too.

Even while re-building/tanking, teams generally still want a competent team in place and they now have the makings with Sexton to take Mitchell's role as the first option and Markkanen to give them their first starting four since Millsap in '13.

Of course, they're not nearly good enough to have much/if any affect on their draft odds, plus they could have decent resale value down the line.

Only “casuals” value counting stats on losing teams though bro.

I like how you posted your patented emoji and removed it! :lmao

weren’t feeling sexy!?!? I think you look good sis!!!

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/72/a5/58/72a55810abf3861d499898a9ac9e66d8.jpg

[TD 21]

Only “casuals” value counting stats on losing teams though bro.

I like how you posted your patented emoji and removed it! :lmao

weren’t feeling sexy!?!? I think you look good sis!!!

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/72/a5/58/72a55810abf3861d499898a9ac9e66d8.jpg

Absolutes are foolish, but even though I'm not a fan of either, given what they make and their role on teams, it's fair to say the league values them decently.

Except I didn't . . . keep trying.

[KingKev]

Absolutes are foolish, but even though I'm not a fan of either, given what they make and their role on teams, it's fair to say the league values them decently.

Except I didn't . . . keep trying.

Trading in your clown shoes for FLIP FLOPs.

Two days ago you had a different view on JRich’s trade value if he showed out on a bad team but now you have basically implied the Jazz with Markkanan can do the same thing.

And yes you immediately deleted your :lmao

[TD 21]

Trading in your clown shoes for FLIP FLOPs.

Two days ago you had a different view on JRich’s trade value if he showed out on a bad team but now you have basically implied the Jazz with Markkanan can do the same thing.

And yes you immediately deleted your :lmao

:lmao More poor reading comprehension and making things up. I meant Richardson is the same player whether he averages, 8, 10, 12, 14 whatever ppg. The league isn't going to be fooled either way.

That doesn't have anything to do with the players the Jazz received.

[Chinook]

This beef between Teeds and KK is weird, but at least it's providing content during one of the most disappointingly boring off-seasons in recent memory.

[talkspurs]

No chance LA does this. They aren’t taking back a two year contract unless its a decent player. McDs final year greatly impacts there ability to sign a 3rd star in 2023.

If they are really not wanting to give up the second pick this would be a way for them to save it. They also would save lux tax this year and his deal will not be much more then MLE next year so it would not be that bad of a deal for 1 extra year.

[KingKev]

If they are really not wanting to give up the second pick this would be a way for them to save it. They also would save lux tax this year and his deal will not be much more then MLE next year so it would not be that bad of a deal for 1 extra year.

They want to win now. The money isn’t the major issue here it is winning.

Trading Russ for McDermott makes them a worse team this year and hampers their ability to add a third player in the 2023 offseason when Russ comes off the books.

[KingKev]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10047697-nba-exec-lakers-2027-2029-1st-rounders-most-powerful-draft-picks-in-league

I think Jazz and Lakers eventually come to a deal.

That 2027 pick is gold of unprotected given Lakers boom or bust mentality. No way they rebuild by 2027. LBJ will he gone by 2025, AD shortly after and few FRPs in the interim.

I’d do JRich, Jak for Russ 2027, 2029 unprotected or even just 2027 and 2028 pick swap but I doubt Lakers would.

[BacktoBasics]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10047697-nba-exec-lakers-2027-2029-1st-rounders-most-powerful-draft-picks-in-league

I think Jazz and Lakers eventually come to a deal.

That 2027 pick is gold of unprotected given Lakers boom or bust mentality. No way they rebuild by 2027. LBJ will he gone by 2025, AD shortly after and few FRPs in the interim.

I’d do JRich, Jak for Russ 2027, 2029 unprotected or even just 2027 and 2028 pick swap but I doubt Lakers would.

That's too much for a team that seemingly has no issue reloading enough to at least knock on the door of the playoffs.

[Ariel]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10047697-nba-exec-lakers-2027-2029-1st-rounders-most-powerful-draft-picks-in-league

I think Jazz and Lakers eventually come to a deal.

That 2027 pick is gold of unprotected given Lakers boom or bust mentality. No way they rebuild by 2027. LBJ will he gone by 2025, AD shortly after and few FRPs in the interim.

I’d do JRich, Jak for Russ 2027, 2029 unprotected or even just 2027 and 2028 pick swap but I doubt Lakers would.
They're reluctant to do so for Myles Turner + Buddy Hield, they're not doing it for Poeltl + Jason Richardson. The price is fair, but they have just too many needs and nowhere near enough assets. But if time is running out and they have no better deal in sight, who knows...

[mo7888]

Portland just signed Cacock to an exhibit 10 deal

[jjspur]

When was the last time the Lakers were a bottom 5 team ? 2015, 2016. Injuries, no Kobe Bryant, signing bad contracts. The lakers and the media are just trying to boost the value of these picks so they can get rid of an albatross contract which is hampering their ability to win now.

Think about it, if the lakers unload the two picks for Russ's contract, that means they can use the money to eventually pay someone else, someone who isn't as bad as Russ. When Lebron leaves/retires the lakers will have that salary as well. For 100 million dollars you can certainly get some decent talent that will keep you out of the bottom 5 or lottery by 2027, making those traded picks less valuable.

If Russ's contract / playing skills weren't that bad they wouldn't be trying to get rid of him. The lakers are trying to pull a fast one on everybody. Let them pay for their own mistakes.

[KingKev]

When was the last time the Lakers were a bottom 5 team ? 2015, 2016. Injuries, no Kobe Bryant, signing bad contracts. The lakers and the media are just trying to boost the value of these picks so they can get rid of an albatross contract which is hampering their ability to win now.

Think about it, if the lakers unload the two picks for Russ's contract, that means they can use the money to eventually pay someone else, someone who isn't as bad as Russ. When Lebron leaves/retires the lakers will have that salary as well. For 100 million dollars you can certainly get some decent talent that will keep you out of the bottom 5 or lottery by 2027, making those traded picks less valuable.

If Russ's contract / playing skills weren't that bad they wouldn't be trying to get rid of him. The lakers are trying to pull a fast one on everybody. Let them pay for their own mistakes.

Whether they trade him today or let him walk in free agency makes no difference for their cap for 2023 so I don’t get your point. Trading him today doesn’t give them immediate cap space for the 2022-23 season.

[KingKev]

They're reluctant to do so for Myles Turner + Buddy Hield, they're not doing it for Poeltl + Jason Richardson. The price is fair, but they have just too many needs and nowhere near enough assets. But if time is running out and they have no better deal in sight, who knows...

Agreed. I’m basically arguing we aren’t going to be able to put a competitive offer on the table.

[jjspur]

Whether they trade him today or let him walk in free agency makes no difference for their cap for 2023 so I don’t get your point. Trading him today doesn’t give them immediate cap space for the 2022-23 season.

Yes, I know. Russ is more than just a salary problem, he is also a team chemistry problem and a bit of a head case on top of a wasted 47 million dollar salary. That's why they want to trade him.
Trading Russ wont help cap wise now but trading him for players that can contribute now, is a very big plus for the lakers. Sure, the team that trades for Russ will probably get 2 picks in 5 - 7 years, which is fine but will get absolutely nothing now other than a washed up player with a huge contract, that will probably be waived. You can say that's the cost of doing business in the NBA today, but that's an awfully big cost. Like I've said before, let the lakers pay for their own mistakes.

[talkspurs]

They want to win now. The money isn’t the major issue here it is winning.

Trading Russ for McDermott makes them a worse team this year and hampers their ability to add a third player in the 2023 offseason when Russ comes off the books.

Right and if Russ is hurting that with team chemistry then this does help them win. They are looking to trade him because he is hurting them. They are having a hard time because his salary is so big and teams dont want him.

McDermott would give them something they need which is a 3 pt shooter that does not need a lot of shots. It also would give them a big trade exception that they may be able to use mid year to get another contract. Hield is also someone that they have been interested in but has a worse contract and dont think he is any better. They would still have the trade exception and a pick to go after someone else.

[scott]

This offseason is depressing.

[slick'81]

This offseason is depressing.

but definitely expected. Time to tear it down

[Leetonidas]

This offseason is depressing.

Meh, Spurs cementing themselves as a bottom feeder in 2023 was much needed

[CGD]

This offseason is depressing.

Yeah, but at least there are still some storylines/unanswered question hang out there that spark some interest:

1. Will they move Jak before the start of the season?
2. How will they use their capspace?
3. Do they get anything for the other spare parts (Richardson; Doug; Romeo)

[The Truth #6]

I suppose there are larger picture questions too, but that’s outside of this Summer alone. But I’ll say it anyway because this off-season is fairly lame, at least by the inactivity here.

Will the owners continue to dangle the threat of moving to Austin in order to only assuage us…by asking for a new arena? Perhaps they didn’t mean to create the Austin angst, but the result was created. Obviously, that is a multi year process but I will admit that I’m paying a little more attention to it than I normally would.

[KingKev]

Yeah, but at least there are still some storylines/unanswered question hang out there that spark some interest:

1. Will they move Jak before the start of the season?
Unlikely. The time to sell high in Jak was probably last trade deadline. They aren’t giving him away and he probably isn’t garnering much interest at the asking price.
2. How will they use their capspace?
Especially with a full roster. Going to be tricky. Atleast they have till next draft.
3. Do they get anything for the other spare parts (Richardson; Doug; Romeo)
McD and Langford won't get you anything in isolation. JRich probably gets you 2 SRPs. All three are more likely part of a bigger trade with 2 above.

[TXstbobcat]

I suppose there are larger picture questions too, but that’s outside of this Summer alone. But I’ll say it anyway because this off-season is fairly lame, at least by the inactivity here.

Will the owners continue to dangle the threat of moving to Austin in order to only assuage us…by asking for a new arena? Perhaps they didn’t mean to create the Austin angst, but the result was created. Obviously, that is a multi year process but I will admit that I’m paying a little more attention to it than I normally would.

the demand for a brand new arena will definitely be made in the next few years. If the new arena gets voted down or if the city/county says no then the spurs are as good as gone.

[The Truth #6]

I can see a new arena being built, but will the city government have the balls to do a deal that isn’t a complete giveaway? Likely not. Yet…the optics/politics of arena building is under greater scrutiny and basically people have wised up to how it’s basically charity for billionaires. It will be interesting.

[jjspur]

I can see a new arena being built, but will the city government have the balls to do a deal that isn’t a complete giveaway? Likely not. Yet…the optics/politics of arena building is under greater scrutiny and basically people have wised up to how it’s basically charity for billionaires. It will be interesting.

The lifespan of an NBA arena is roughly 20 - 30 years if that long. Its not that the building is obsolete, its just that NBA teams like to maximize their profits any way they can and an older arena probably doesn't have a lot of the modern amenities that newer arenas have. Its all about keeping up with the Jones'.

The days of really really old arenas like the Boston Garden or Chicago stadium are over. Boston Garden in its last few seasons was an especially dirty, smelly, shitty place. It really needed to be replaced. Didn't matter how many hockey or basketball championships were won there.

At least an NBA arena doesn't cost as much as a new NFL stadium. The AT&T center is still in decent shape even after 2 decades but I can see the spurs wanting a new place. My guess is that its about getting out of the eastside and closer to downtown or somewhere else to better maximize profits for their rich owners.

[heyheymymy]

Damb Seattle Supersonics plus a Las Vegas team rumored to be announced this preseason at climate pledge

[heyheymymy]

Who goes east, minny?

[KingKev]

Don’t see this guy as credible.

If true, we don’t have to worry about losing any players in the expansion draft atleast.

[Dex]

Who goes east, minny?

Yep, probably Minny....makes the most sense travel wise. They are tucked all the way up in there in the northeast as compared to NO and MEM who are relatively close to the Southwest division, even if they are slightly further east.

[exstatic]

I can see a new arena being built, but will the city government have the balls to do a deal that isn’t a complete giveaway? Likely not. Yet…the optics/politics of arena building is under greater scrutiny and basically people have wised up to how it’s basically charity for billionaires. It will be interesting.

The people don’t give a rat’s ass about giveaways, as long as they’re not the ones paying the bill. See:1999 election for ATT Center funded by hotel and rental car taxes.

[exstatic]

I suppose there are larger picture questions too, but that’s outside of this Summer alone. But I’ll say it anyway because this off-season is fairly lame, at least by the inactivity here.

Will the owners continue to dangle the threat of moving to Austin in order to only assuage us…by asking for a new arena? Perhaps they didn’t mean to create the Austin angst, but the result was created. Obviously, that is a multi year process but I will admit that I’m paying a little more attention to it than I normally would.

The owners never once dangled any threats to move the team to Austin. That’s pretty much a fever dream of one particular poster here.

[exstatic]

Who goes east, minny?

Could be any of the three teams on the Mississippi River: minny, Memphis, or New Orleans.

[KingKev]

It was a since deleted tweet from a guy with 2k followers.

[jjspur]

Who goes east, minny?
How about Memphis and Minny ?

[exstatic]

How about Memphis and Minny ?

When you add two teams that the WC via expansion, then you only send one team East to maintain balanced conferences.

[Leetonidas]

It was a since deleted tweet from a guy with 2k followers.

It was actually a writer for the Associated Press with over 5k followers. not saying it's legit but given the source, probably more legit than just some random dude

[KingKev]

It was actually a writer for the Associated Press with over 5k followers. not saying it's legit but given the source, probably more legit than just some random dude

Since deleted. Not picked up by any major media source. He might be plugged in, in Vegas which may give this some credence. Otherwise he is a nobody; AP or not.

I won’t argue 2k vs 5k and how different that is. I’ll leave that to the resident social media analyst/community college eng student.

[Leetonidas]

Since deleted. Not picked up by any major media source. He might be plugged in, in Vegas which may give this some credence. Otherwise he is a nobody; AP or not.

I won’t argue 2k vs 5k and how different that is. I’ll leave that to the resident social media analyst/community college eng student.

Fair enough. Realgm is reporting it though :lol

[TimDunkem]

Memphis would be the obvious choice to be sent to the EC.

[Dex]

Fair enough. Realgm is reporting it though :lol

Google is your friend, my dudes

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/nba-to-announce-expansion-teams-las-vegas-seattle-during-preseason

[Dex]

One thing that makes this interesting...right now there are 30 teams and 6 divisions...easy maths, 15 teams per conference, 5 teams per division.

If NBA expands by two teams, each conference will now have 16 teams. So do they split things up into 8 divisions? Or do away with divisions altogether?

How does that affect classic rivalries, playoff tie-breakers, etc?

A lot of logistics still to be worked out here, I'm sure.

[jjspur]

When you add two teams that the WC via expansion, then you only send one team East to maintain balanced conferences.

Expansion in Seattle and Las Vegas would likely require a reshuffling of NBA conferences with two teams presumably joining the Western Conference at a later date. Minnesota and Memphis are the two most eastern Western Conference teams that would seem like ideal candidates to shift conferences if expansion occurs.

[KingKev]

Google is your friend, my dudes

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/nba-to-announce-expansion-teams-las-vegas-seattle-during-preseason

Dex, once again did not understand the assignment.

[Dex]

Dex, once again did not understand the assignment.

I thought we were discussing whether the report of expansion was credible?

If not, nevermind :lol

[KingKev]

I thought we were discussing whether the report of expansion was credible?

If not, nevermind :lol

haha we are homie and you posted a source quoting the guy who deleted his tweet 30 mins later = not credible

[heyheymymy]

Maybe adding the Timbys east in the central division with bucks bulls and pistons makes a ton of sense geographically but I honestly haven't looked at it deeply yet. Not sure how you would balance off everything. But Vegas or Seattle would replace minny in northwest and it would make sense.

How do you balance off 5 vs 6 teams in divisions?

Anyway interesting rumor. The fact there is a preseason game at climate pledge where it could be announced and then another preseason game right after this in Vegas makes you wonder.

[Dex]

haha we are homie and you posted a source quoting the guy who deleted his tweet 30 mins later = not credible

I feel like if it's hit Sports Illustrated, there must be some truth to it...but hard to say with media these days

[Dex]

Maybe adding the Timbys east in the central division with bucks bulls and pistons makes a ton of sense geographically but I honestly haven't looked at it deeply yet. Not sure how you would balance off everything. But Vegas or Seattle would replace minny in northwest and it would make sense.

How do you balance off 5 vs 6 teams in divisions?

Anyway interesting rumor. The fact there is a preseason game at climate pledge where it could be announced and then another preseason game right after this in Vegas makes you wonder.

Probably either split each conference into either 2 big divisions or 4 small ones....or just get rid of divisions altogether because they are basically pointless at this point :lol

[KingKev]

I feel like if it's hit Sports Illustrated, there must be some truth to it...but hard to say with media these days

This is why ppl should take a google search to a second or third derivative.

[Chinook]

Expansion in Seattle and Las Vegas would likely require a reshuffling of NBA conferences with two teams presumably joining the Western Conference at a later date. Minnesota and Memphis are the two most eastern Western Conference teams that would seem like ideal candidates to shift conferences if expansion occurs.

You still only need to move one team from West to East. Each conference would have 16 teams. Moving two just makes a 17/15 imbalance in the other direction

[Joseph Kony]

Seattle and Vegas to the WC, give Memphis to the East. Makes sense to me. Might as well swap the Bucks and Wolves while we're at it :lol

[Chinook]

Minny's basically by itself in the region in terms of Western teams. Memphis is actually pretty close to other cities like Dallas and NOLA.

[KingKev]

I’m reading it’s not an expansion team in Vegas rather the San Antonio Spurs will be moving. Per AP member with confirmed 150k NBA2k VCs.

[Dex]

I’m reading it’s not an expansion team in Vegas rather the San Antonio Spurs will be moving. Per AP member with confirmed 150k NBA2k VCs.

Pfft....I have like 10000 VCs...

In 2K17 before the fixed the glitches

[heyheymymy]

Lol I just do spurs myleague and make an accurate save, custom spurs save with some trades to enhance the roster, and custom league expansion save with like Seattle brought back etc.

Made a Vegas outlaws lol. Seattle Supersonics and forced KD back lol. Moved grizz back to Vancouver and sent Sacramento to Memphis lol get it, Memphis Kings? Elvis lives haha

[The Truth #6]

The owners never once dangled any threats to move the team to Austin. That’s pretty much a fever dream of one particular poster here.

Nelson Wolfe raised the concern in interviews a few month ago. And I doubt he reads Spurs Talk.

[TXstbobcat]

Nelson Wolfe raised the concern in interviews a few month ago. And I doubt he reads Spurs Talk.

it raised enough of a concern that Holt felt the need to address it with his letter to the fans.

[Dex]

Nelson Wolfe raised the concern in interviews a few month ago. And I doubt he reads Spurs Talk.

The fact that they are playing games in Austin (and Mexico) I think raises the question in different circles....it's an easy target.

But I am still in the boat that it's nothing but clickbait. Even during these dark days, San Antonio has cemented itself as one of the major franchises in the NBA and has an incredibly loyal fanbase...everything else is just noise or wishful thinking from people who (for some reason) want the team to move.

Yes, our attendance numbers suck right now...that's what happens when you go from being a 20-year perennial contender to a tanking team. We got spoiled by winning to the point that it was the expectation...now fans aren't looking to go spend good money to watch a team try NOT to win.

It's not going to look any better this year, so don't act surprised.

The fact that the NBA is talking expansion makes it even LESS likely the Spurs get moved, tbh

[exstatic]

The fact that they are playing games in Austin (and Mexico) I think raises the question in different circles....it's an easy target.

But I am still in the boat that it's nothing but clickbait. Even during these dark days, San Antonio has cemented itself as one of the major franchises in the NBA and has an incredibly loyal fanbase...everything else is just noise or wishful thinking from people who (for some reason) want the team to move.

Yes, our attendance numbers suck right now...that's what happens when you go from being a 20-year perennial contender to a tanking team. We got spoiled by winning to the point that it was the expectation...now fans aren't looking to go spend good money to watch a team try NOT to win.

It's not going to look any better this year, so don't act surprised.

The fact that the NBA is talking expansion makes it even LESS likely the Spurs get moved, tbh

They’ve played games in Mexico before, and there isn’t an NBA ready arena in Austin. Not even close. The venue where they are playing is like 9,000 capacity.

[jjspur]

You still only need to move one team from West to East. Each conference would have 16 teams. Moving two just makes a 17/15 imbalance in the other direction

Dude I can do basic math. The idea is that Vegas and Seattle are really far out west. Some team will have to move to the eastern conference. Minny or Memphis are the most likely candidates if this happens. (only one moves). You have your 16 / 16 balance that way. No on ever said the NBA was good at geography.

[Chinook]

Dude I can do basic math. The idea is that Vegas and Seattle are really far out west. Some team will have to move to the eastern conference. Minny or Memphis are the most likely candidates if this happens. (only one moves). You have your 16 / 16 balance that way. No on ever said the NBA was good at geography.

Minny is west of New Orleans and Memphis but is really far away from everyone else. Makes way more sense for them to move and be with the adjacent teams rather than moving teams that are actually pretty close.

Of course, LV is a shitty city to expand to if you're concerned about futureproofing. Seattle should be okay, but the league should be looking at the Midwest

[Dex]

They’ve played games in Mexico before, and there isn’t an NBA ready arena in Austin. Not even close. The venue where they are playing is like 9,000 capacity.

Wasn't there one in Mexico that got shut down because the stadium nearly caught on fire? :lol

And I agree, Moody Center is not only much smaller than AT&T, but the traffic infrastucture is TERRIBLE. Any event that happens there creates a shit-show downtown....we'll see how it goes when the Longhorns start playing there regularly but I don't see it supporting 3-4 NBA games a week.

[heyheymymy]

Why not use Erwin Center? I've been out of the region for a while now, are the Longhorns abandoning Erwin for Moody?

[Dex]

Why not use Erwin Center? I've been out of the region for a while now, are the Longhorns abandoning Erwin for Moody?

Erwin Center has been closed and is going to be demolished as part of the the site of the new Dell Medical Center.

Moody Center will take over as the home of Longhorns basketball and other events that would have gone to Erwin.

[KingKev]

Max Kleber just got 3yrs/33mm.

Zollins looking like a damn steal.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Max Kleber just got 3yrs/33mm.

Zollins looking like a damn steal.
Maxi is still more reliable in terms of health.

[heyheymymy]

Good info, I'm high on Zollins

[heyheymymy]

Maxi is an interesting piece for sure but the price tag def puts Zollins into better perspective despite the health risk which I still say spurs aren't necessarily out of the setback window yet.

But zach looked solid and sturdy in his test mins last season should be good and if so tons of value there on a gamble and a long game bargain

[KingKev]

Maxi is still more reliable in terms of health.

Lol who cares. Both small contracts.

The brightest on Spurstalk moonlight as sports physicians and advanced NBA biomechanics analysts.

[TD 21]

Kleber is significantly more valuable than Collins. He's the type that the counting stats will never do justice, but his malleability/versatility and archetype (rare big who can credibly play both the 4 and 5 on both sides of the ball in today's NBA) become even more valuable in the playoffs due to the lineup flexibility they provide.

MLE type money (as the cap rises) for his late prime seems fair.

[KingKev]

Kleber is significantly more valuable than Collins. He's the type that the counting stats will never do justice, but his malleability/versatility and archetype (rare big who can credibly play both the 4 and 5 on both sides of the ball in today's NBA) become even more valuable in the playoffs due to the lineup flexibility they provide.

MLE type money (as the cap rises) for his late prime seems fair.

Kleber is a fair deal. Zollins has the potential to look like a steal even if he can’t D up universally at the 4.

[scott]

Meh, Spurs cementing themselves as a bottom feeder in 2023 was much needed

Yeah, that's not the depressing part though. Seeing other teams do it better* is the depressing part.

*Of course, we don't know how any of this will turn out... but it certainly appears that the Jazz, for example, are putting themselves in a better position that we are for the future. We are one ping-pong ball away from that changing though. Tall French kid plus a slew of future picks and all of a sudden things look must better.

[KingKev]

Yeah, that's not the depressing part though. Seeing other teams do it better* is the depressing part.

*Of course, we don't know how any of this will turn out... but it certainly appears that the Jazz, for example, are putting themselves in a better position that we are for the future. We are one ping-pong ball away from that changing though. Tall French kid plus a slew of future picks and all of a sudden things look must better.

Firmly agree.

Losing games isn’t that depressing with a vision and strategic direction in place. Last year was a near goldilocks scenario where we played exciting and competitive basketball and started the rebuild with dignity. We developed the youth. Come trade deadline it appeared Brian Wright’s chastity belt was removed when he flipped a culture guy like White for a nice return. Even though I would have liked to see them shut it down shortly after the AS game I understand why they hit the gas as other teams fell out of the race.

The depressing part to me is I’m still not confident PATFO will play the long game come March when others duck out of the playoff/play-in race stubborn PATFO will sacrifice draft positioning to make a run at the play-in.

It’s unsettling how much better other play-in teams like NO and Minny actually were. It makes sense for those teams to get their guys experience and fight. It doesn’t for us when we are fielding 10-15 role
players and Keldon is the closest thing to an up and coming all-star type player.

[scott]

Firmly agree.

Losing games isn’t that depressing with a vision and strategic direction in place. Last year was a near goldilocks scenario where we played exciting and competitive basketball and started the rebuild with dignity. We developed the youth. Come trade deadline it appeared Brian Wright’s chastity belt was removed when he flipped a culture guy like White for a nice return. Even though I would have liked to see them shut it down shortly after the AS game I understand why they hit the gas as other teams fell out of the race.

The depressing part to me is I’m still not confident PATFO will play the long game come March when others duck out of the playoff/play-in race stubborn PATFO will sacrifice draft positioning to make a run at the play-in.

It’s unsettling how much better other play-in teams like NO and Minny actually were. It makes sense for those teams to get their guys experience and fight. It doesn’t for us when we are fielding 10-15 role
players and Keldon is the closest thing to an up and coming all-star type player.

And of course context in all this matters... of course the Jazz can put together a better rebuild because they had more assets to do it with... but that's ALSO the depressing part. We are rebuilding from a place of mediocrity that had been perpetuated since KL's departure. If on lottery day, Josh Primo was instead Evan Mobley or Jeremy Sochan was Paolo Banchero, then we'd be in a different place - but we didn't get that luck and instead got the fruits of a try hard, below average team on the treadmill.

There are two treadmills in this league, and I'm not sure which is worse.... the OKC treadmill, where you are just in forever tank mode... or the Spurs treadmill where you are just stuck on the bubble but still not actually ever competitive. Both lead to the same place, but at least one comes with the false hope that a high draft pick that you suck at developing brings.

This isn't even to point fingers at anything we did or didn't do this offseason, it's just a reflection of where we are in this process. And it's depressing.

[KingKev]

^ I know I’m a beating a dead horse but we could have started the rebuild from a much better position and choose not to because PATFO are stubborn and loving off of Tim Duncan’s legacy.

We also could have easily had MUCH better odds at a a potential cornerstone such as Mobley, Banchero but once again PATFO are too damn stubborn.

There is a very consistent theme here and it is PATFO’s stubbornness and lack of accountability these last 5 years.

[Atl Spur]

We’ve never been in a place of a rebuild so let’s give it a few years like the league average says it normally takes to turn it around:) Patience is a virtue…… these past 4 drafts have been very fruitful and now we must team build strategically.

[Atl Spur]

You win with vets in this league, very rarely does rookies / young players get you there.

[Atl Spur]

A few 19 win seasons will get us that #1 pick lol

[spurraider21]

have we used any of our 7 jillion dollars of cap space to acquire any assets yet?

[The Truth #6]

You win with vets in this league, very rarely does rookies / young players get you there.

I mean, Robinson and Duncan definitely did, but that’s ahistorical, basically.

[TXstbobcat]

I mean, Robinson and Duncan definitely did, but that’s ahistorical, basically.

that’s what we are hoping for. Lightning to strike a third time and again we get a top lottery pick and luck into the next Jesus Christ in basketball sneakers.

i know everybody is high on the French kid as the next superstar but I think we could be good drafting scooter or the guard out of Arkansas.

[heyheymymy]

I was going to say, anyone else actually targeting the Arkansas guard Nick Smith Jr?

Wembys body spooks me with his potential for injury.

[exstatic]

You win with vets in this league, very rarely does rookies / young players get you there.

You win with Superstars, and small market teams have to draft them, meaning they’ll start young.

[Atl Spur]

You win with Superstars, and small market teams have to draft them, meaning they’ll start young.

As I said above our four last drafts were fruitful…… was something unclear?

[KingKev]

As I said above our four last drafts were fruitful…… was something unclear?

They were average at best. Too early to tell what our 2022 picks hold but first round picks the last 4 years:

2021: Primo: absolute reach who has shown little in the G-League or at the NBA level but atleast has a (growing) NBA body. Hopefully he can become a role player in this league, maybe more. D
2020: Vassell: safe/fair pick with some upside. B
Tre Jones: solid pick for a second rounder. A
2019: Luka: another reach for an otherwise second rounder. No matter who is to blame this pick flopped: F
Keldon: solid pick but he also fell to the Spurs so there was some luck involved. Regardless great pick: A
2018: Walker: fair pick for where he was taken. B

AVERAGE AT BEST

[heyheymymy]

Charania] The NBA and NBPA are still working to finalize the In Season Tournament concept, which includes to-be-determined prizes for the eight teams that advance to the single-elimination round, sources said.

[Atl Spur]

They were average at best. Too early to tell what our 2022 picks hold but first round picks the last 4 years:

2021: Primo: absolute reach who has shown little in the G-League or at the NBA level but atleast has a (growing) NBA body. Hopefully he can become a role player in this league, maybe more. D
2020: Vassell: safe/fair pick with some upside. B
Tre Jones: solid pick for a second rounder. A
2019: Luka: another reach for an otherwise second rounder. No matter who is to blame this pick flopped: F
Keldon: solid pick but he also fell to the Spurs so there was some luck involved. Regardless great pick: A
2018: Walker: fair pick for where he was taken. B

AVERAGE AT BEST
Hey big guy……2022-2019. Give it sec before placing thy foot in thy mouth����

[K...]

no one knows how to build a team in the current climate. guys are all drafted raw. then if they do reach true all star level, it's hard to keep them. Do you really want to go balls to the wall and become Dallas or Atlanta? This is why i am being very patient with the team. Its so easy to go bad from here. The Front office might get desperate at any point, but you can't wait for ever

[K...]

They were average at best. Too early to tell what our 2022 picks hold but first round picks the last 4 years:

2021: Primo: absolute reach who has shown little in the G-League or at the NBA level but atleast has a (growing) NBA body. Hopefully he can become a role player in this league, maybe more. D
2020: Vassell: safe/fair pick with some upside. B
Tre Jones: solid pick for a second rounder. A
2019: Luka: another reach for an otherwise second rounder. No matter who is to blame this pick flopped: F
Keldon: solid pick but he also fell to the Spurs so there was some luck involved. Regardless great pick: A
2018: Walker: fair pick for where he was taken. B

AVERAGE AT BEST

hindsight motherfucker

[KingKev]

hindsight motherfucker

By you saying this is hindsight you are indirectly agreeing they have been average over these 4 last years.

We are great at player development however the on going narrative that we are an elite drafting team is not supported by the period I commented on above.

Outside of Primo all of those picks made sense at the time (including swinging for the fences with Luka) but the end result thus far across those picks is an average grade.

[exstatic]

They were average at best. Too early to tell what our 2022 picks hold but first round picks the last 4 years:

2021: Primo: absolute reach who has shown little in the G-League or at the NBA level but atleast has a (growing) NBA body. Hopefully he can become a role player in this league, maybe more. D
2020: Vassell: safe/fair pick with some upside. B
Tre Jones: solid pick for a second rounder. A
2019: Luka: another reach for an otherwise second rounder. No matter who is to blame this pick flopped: F
Keldon: solid pick but he also fell to the Spurs so there was some luck involved. Regardless great pick: A
2018: Walker: fair pick for where he was taken. B

AVERAGE AT BEST

It’s really a fool’s errand to evaluate NBA players before year 3. People here were pretty down on Keldon last summer. He had not lived up to his bubble breakout.

Primo Incomplete
Vassell - B+. I think he’ll be an A next grading period, based on the period after the White trade.
Keldon A
Luka C - Luka himself was an F, but it’s pretty common for non-lottery FRPs to bomb out, hence the pick’s grade of C. They swung and missed. If the pick had been top 10, then it might merit an F.
Lonnie - C. See above.
Derrick - A
DJ - A+

[KingKev]

It’s really a fool’s errand to evaluate NBA players before year 3. People here were pretty down on Keldon last summer. He had not lived up to his bubble breakout.

Primo Incomplete
Vassell - B+. I think he’ll be an A next grading period, based on the period after the White trade.
Keldon A
Luka C - Luka himself was an F, but it’s pretty common for non-lottery FRPs to bomb out, hence the pick’s grade of C. They swung and missed. If the pick had been top 10, then it might merit an F.
Lonnie - C. See above.
Derrick - A
DJ - A+

Very fair assessment. I don’t expect every draft pick to be an AS I’m merely pointing out that over that 4 year period we were meh.

[FlAVaK]

1568645640238034950

[jjspur]

It’s really a fool’s errand to evaluate NBA players before year 3. People here were pretty down on Keldon last summer. He had not lived up to his bubble breakout.

Primo Incomplete
Vassell - B+. I think he’ll be an A next grading period, based on the period after the White trade.
Keldon A
Luka C - Luka himself was an F, but it’s pretty common for non-lottery FRPs to bomb out, hence the pick’s grade of C. They swung and missed. If the pick had been top 10, then it might merit an F.
Lonnie - C. See above.
Derrick - A
DJ - A+

Agree with almost everything.
Derrick and DJ were both developed here but it took 5-6 years. Derrick deserves his A, but Dj got his A+ mostly out of circumstance. Either way both are gone. Will be interesting to see how they do this year.
Lonnie is right on a C. Maybe he would have improved with more time, maybe not, so a C is right.
Keldon improved more than we expected, so an A is appropriate.
Vassell has improved since his rookie year and looks to improve even more. He may be up to an A or A- fairly soon.
Primo is a mystery. At this time I'll put him in the Lonnie Walker category. Taken fairly high in the draft, maybe he improves maybe not. Give him another year or so and then we can evaluate his value.
Luka, was rated an F which is absolutely accurate since he's out of the NBA but more of a D for a very disappointing dumb ass attitude which gets you cut and eventually out of the NBA. (some talent, bad attitude)

Any draft pick can be a gamble. There have been #1 picks that absolutely sucked and #29 picks that become all stars or very valuable players. Some 2nd round picks have become all stars even though they were picked behind lots of other less worthy players. It can be a crapshoot. Players need time to develop (some take more than a few years) and it works, but sometimes even casual fans can see that the team has made a mistake. :ihit

[KingKev]

^ DJ earned that A+ if anything the gap between White and Murray is larger. Spurs fans stay salty.

[scott]

Spurs need to just trade down to #29 every year, tbh.

[XDT76]

They were average at best. Too early to tell what our 2022 picks hold but first round picks the last 4 years:

2021: Primo: absolute reach who has shown little in the G-League or at the NBA level but atleast has a (growing) NBA body. Hopefully he can become a role player in this league, maybe more. D
2020: Vassell: safe/fair pick with some upside. B
Tre Jones: solid pick for a second rounder. A
2019: Luka: another reach for an otherwise second rounder. No matter who is to blame this pick flopped: F
Keldon: solid pick but he also fell to the Spurs so there was some luck involved. Regardless great pick: A
2018: Walker: fair pick for where he was taken. B

AVERAGE AT BEST

There isn't much better the spurs could have done except maybe Jones over Primo, and Luka. The rest of the guys picked did not have any players significantly better than the them picked later. Maybe Murray and White has set our expectation higher, now is see whether the Spurs are able to develop them to their fullest potential. Overall at least I don't think they screw up much in terms of draft thing.

[Atl Spur]

There isn't much better the spurs could have done except maybe Jones over Primo, and Luka. The rest of the guys picked did not have any players significantly better than the them picked later. Maybe Murray and White has set our expectation higher, now is see whether the Spurs are able to develop them to their fullest potential. Overall at least I don't think they screw up much in terms of draft thing.


Kev is just stirring the pot…… nothing to see here��

[KingKev]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10048503-new-3-team-nba-trades-where-everyone-wins

Scroll to the last 3way with the Lakers/Spurs/Jazz

[Seventyniner]

Intriguing to get both the Spurs and Jazz involved in the Westbrook deal. But I don't see the Spurs both participating and losing Poeltl without getting even a single first back.

[exstatic]

Intriguing to get both the Spurs and Jazz involved in the Westbrook deal. But I don't see the Spurs both participating and losing Poeltl without getting even a single first back.

Yeah, throw the bundle of second on Utahs pile, and shoot one of those UFRPs our way.

[Chinook]

:lol what a garbage proposal that is. The only good thing in that article is the Spurs getting that pick from Charlotte. Absolute dumpster fire otherwise.

[Seventyniner]

At the very, very least the seconds from Utah need to be in 2023 and 2024 when they are likely to be in the 31-35 range, not 2025-2026 when they might be more respectable.

But yeah it's garbage from the Spurs POV.

The idea of the Spurs cutting yet another $23M from the payroll is amusing but not all that useful to the Spurs. Losing McD's 2023-2024 salary is nice but not at all worth giving up Poeltl and only getting a few seconds back.

[Dejounte]

There isn't much better the spurs could have done except maybe Jones over Primo, and Luka. The rest of the guys picked did not have any players significantly better than the them picked later. Maybe Murray and White has set our expectation higher, now is see whether the Spurs are able to develop them to their fullest potential. Overall at least I don't think they screw up much in terms of draft thing.

Oops, you’re making too much sense here that it just bounces off the wall to some folks.

[KingKev]

There isn't much better the spurs could have done except maybe Jones over Primo, and Luka. The rest of the guys picked did not have any players significantly better than the them picked later. Maybe Murray and White has set our expectation higher, now is see whether the Spurs are able to develop them to their fullest potential. Overall at least I don't think they screw up much in terms of draft thing.

I understand they can’t hit it out of the park every year and outside of Primo I see the argument for all of these picks at the time they were made. There is a strong narrative that PATFO are elite in the draft but I’m arguing over that period they were average.

Going through who was drafted later is hindsight and fairly useless (I beleive Vassell was a fair pick) but there certainly were better players taken later including Maxey, Haliburton and Sadiq Bey, maybe even Immanuel Quickley.

[Rocalcio]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10048503-new-3-team-nba-trades-where-everyone-wins

Scroll to the last 3way with the Lakers/Spurs/Jazz

We can get better than a 2nd round pick for Jakob.

[jjspur]

We can get better than a 2nd round pick for Jakob.

I think there are a number of teams that would give up lots more for Jak. That trade is crap. Media trying to help the Lakers.
As a matter of fact, I've yet to see a two way or three way trade involving Russ where the team other than lakers doesn't get screwed. Proof positive that some players make way way more money than they are worth, with Russ being the poster child followed by John Wall. (Wall's big contract is done, so he's not a bad as Russ')

[KingKev]

I think there are a number of teams that would give up lots more for Jak. That trade is crap. Media trying to help the Lakers.
As a matter of fact, I've yet to see a two way or three way trade involving Russ where the team other than lakers doesn't get screwed. Proof positive that some players make way way more money than they are worth, with Russ being the poster child followed by John Wall. (Wall's big contract is done, so he's not a bad as Russ')

Wall was bought out but between what Houston and the Clippers are paying him is also 47mm.

[lmbebo]

thats a garbage trade being proposed. Dumping McDermott and Poetl for a handful of 2nd rounders? I'd say a lotto protected 1st for Poetl and maybe a heavily protected 1st for McDermott

[KingKev]

thats a garbage trade being proposed. Dumping McDermott and Poetl for a handful of 2nd rounders? I'd say a lotto protected 1st for Poetl and maybe a heavily protected 1st for McDermott

Jak is probably worth more than a lottery protected FRP but his value will diminish as the season goes on. The time to move him was last trade deadline.

McD is worth an SRP at best with an expiring contract coming back. He probably costs you an SRP or two to get him off the books outright.

[lmbebo]

Jak is probably worth more than a lottery protected FRP but his value will diminish as the season goes on. The time to move him was last trade deadline.

McD is worth an SRP at best with an expiring contract coming back. He probably costs you an SRP or two to get him off the books outright.


Don't agree on the McD part. Spurs aren't needing to dump him to offload salary. Do we even know if are at the salary floor?

[KingKev]

Don't agree on the McD part. Spurs aren't needing to dump him to offload salary. Do we even know if are at the salary floor?

We absolutely don’t need to dump him but I can assure you few if any teams will offer anything for him. Maybe if he was expiring.

I’d rather keep him. He won’t win you a single game and is probably a good locker room presence.

[jjspur]

Wall was bought out but between what Houston and the Clippers are paying him is also 47mm.

Unless he stays with the lakers, wherever he goes, its more than likely he gets bought out, like his fellow overpriced NBA player Wall. It will suck for the team who gets stuck paying most of Russ' salary.
Money for nothing and Russ' checks for free.
Yeah I know, the team will likely get something in draft picks years down the road. The price of draft picks has really gone up the last few years.

Can't Russ just retire. Save the lakers a few million. I'm sure he's earned enough in his career. I think its close to 300 million. :dizzy

[XDT76]

Unless he stays with the lakers, wherever he goes, its more than likely he gets bought out, like his fellow overpriced NBA player Wall. It will suck for the team who gets stuck paying most of Russ' salary.
Money for nothing and Russ' checks for free.
Yeah I know, the team will likely get something in draft picks years down the road. The price of draft picks has really gone up the last few years.

Can't Russ just retire. Save the lakers a few million. I'm sure he's earned enough in his career. I think its close to 300 million. :dizzy

He triggered his PO of $47M this off season, no way he's gonna help any team to save money

[lefty20]

Big part of the problem is that Russ still believes, judging by his comments in the exit interview, that he's actually worth that much money.

[KingKev]

Unless he stays with the lakers, wherever he goes, its more than likely he gets bought out, like his fellow overpriced NBA player Wall. It will suck for the team who gets stuck paying most of Russ' salary.
Money for nothing and Russ' checks for free.
Yeah I know, the team will likely get something in draft picks years down the road. The price of draft picks has really gone up the last few years.

Can't Russ just retire. Save the lakers a few million. I'm sure he's earned enough in his career. I think its close to 300 million. :dizzy

I’d rather buyout Russ and get a future (potentially franchise altering) unprotected FRP down the line than watch 30mm in cap go down the drain.

Russ has 2-3 more years at near MLE money if he tempers his ego.

[Ice009]

What kind of money do you think teams will offer when Westbrook is a free agent? I have a feeling he's not going to be happy with the offers he gets.

[KingKev]

What kind of money do you think teams will offer when Westbrook is a free agent? I have a feeling he's not going to be happy with the offers he gets.

If he wants to go to a contender it’ll be a 1yr vet min to maybe half of the MLE. If he shows he can contribute he probably gets somewhere around the full MLE the year after.

Look how many solid vets are without a job to start training camp. Most of those guys are going to get the vet min.

[FlAVaK]

https://youtu.be/ULsBvVxKd1Y

Similar question for Schröder: Will he be offered more than the Minimum after his performance at Eurobasket?

[exstatic]

What kind of money do you think teams will offer when Westbrook is a free agent? I have a feeling he's not going to be happy with the offers he gets.

They’ll offer him minimum for this year, and he’ll be fine after collecting his $47M buyout.

[KingKev]

https://youtu.be/ULsBvVxKd1Y

Similar question for Schröder: Will he be offered more than the Minimum after his performance at Eurobasket?

Few teams actually have more to offer at this point, especially contenders and his last club Houston doesn’t have the rights to sign and trade him. Will be hard for him to get much more than the vet min.

[Bojo]

https://youtu.be/ULsBvVxKd1Y

Similar question for Schröder: Will he be offered more than the Minimum after his performance at Eurobasket?

Possibly, if someone really wants to overpay for him. I wouldn't know how he moves the needle for any team though.

[jjspur]

NBA owners should look at what NFL contracts are like. A 4 year contract has some guaranteed money up front, but is really a series of one year contracts. When the player really underperforms or is too injured to play, they simply cut him. Kind of harsh, but its saves the team money in the long run. Teamwise its a better way to do business. Paying players that actually play and earn their money, what a concept.

I know that this would never get by the NBA players association, but I have a feeling some financial rules may change in the next NBA collective agreement because of players like Russ and John Wall. Some rules have to be made to protect stupid teams from giving out stupid contracts. Something like the Stepien rule for player contracts.

[tbdog]

Possibly, if someone really wants to overpay for him. I wouldn't know how he moves the needle for any team though.

Perfect candidate for the Suns. They need another ball handler to play alongside booker or CP off the bench. But they just have vet min to give him.

[BacktoBasics]

Russ would have to change his entire approach to the game to be a real difference maker. Maybe not the best example but a guy like Melo adjusted his game enough to extend his career. Vince Carter comes to mind. There are probably better examples but that's the most recent one that popped in my head.

Russ could be a huge addition to a team. Could easily be that final piece for a contender but he's too full of himself and has shown zero ability to compromise how he approaches the game. This guy seemingly knows just one approach and that's to make it about himself. Doubt he can let that go. Ego is a powerful thing.

[Fireball]

Similar question for Schröder: Will he be offered more than the Minimum after his performance at Eurobasket?

That was a nice game yesterday, wasn't it? Pretty astounding ...

[KingKev]

Perfect candidate for the Suns. They need another ball handler to play alongside booker or CP off the bench. But they just have vet min to give him.

Sarver just got hit with a 10mm fine and they are already in lux tax territory but he’d be a good fit.

[KingKev]

Russ would have to change his entire approach to the game to be a real difference maker. Maybe not the best example but a guy like Melo adjusted his game enough to extend his career. Vince Carter comes to mind. There are probably better examples but that's the most recent one that popped in my head.

Russ could be a huge addition to a team. Could easily be that final piece for a contender but he's too full of himself and has shown zero ability to compromise how he approaches the game. This guy seemingly knows just one approach and that's to make it about himself. Doubt he can let that go. Ego is a powerful thing.

Melo had to be blacklisted to change his game. I suspect Russ gets the same treatment and will have to prove himself but he is still a very gifted and durable athlete. He just needs to be a pass first PG and attack the rim like few others can. He is also a very capable defender when he wants to be. He could easily be a 15/8/8 guy in 25 mins a night off the bench.

Darvin Ham is a very underrated addition to the Lakers this offseason. He is an out the mud kind of guy who won’t take shit.

[heyheymymy]

WB now facing his age and how it changes his game like most legendary vets have done before.

But the combination of WBs bad attitude and how heavily predicated his style of play is based on his athleticism this should be interesting to see unfold.

Totally agree he could be huge in an adjusted role but will his ego allow it?

[The Truth #6]

I’m curious how long Darvin Ham lasts. Could be anywhere from two months to two years. Unfortunately, I can see the Lakers sucking (which I’m happy about) but Ham getting fired super early because Lebron wants to pass the blame off to someone else. But shit, if Ham gets fired early, he should still get all his money. Anyway. I expect the Lakers to suck still.

[Leetonidas]

Really don't think Russ can change his game tbh. His entire game has always been predicated on his athleticism, ball dominance, and constant attack mode. He can't shoot, he is a turnstile on defense, and unless he has the ball in his hands he's basically invisible. He's also notorious for having a poor BBIQ and making ill-timed decisions, especially in crunch time (lol remember that shot off the backboard in 2014?). I really doubt he can do much to change his game to be an impact player in a more limited role. it's not like he's going to magically become a 38% three point shooter or an elite defensive player at this point in his career

unless a team like Washington wants him back, or some other team that thinks his name alone will generate ticket sales, i really think he is probably going to be out of the NBA after his contract is up

[KingKev]

WB now facing his age and how it changes his game like most legendary vets have done before.

But the combination of WBs bad attitude and how heavily predicated his style of play is based on his athleticism this should be interesting to see unfold.

Totally agree he could be huge in an adjusted role but will his ego allow it?

He hasn’t lost much athleticism he just hasn’t gotten better anywhere else.

Remove his chucking and have him as a pass first guy who can slash, get to the bucket, rebound and potentially defend and he’s still solid. He has all the tools to do that if he buys in.

[TD 21]

Melo had to be blacklisted to change his game. I suspect Russ gets the same treatment and will have to prove himself but he is still a very gifted and durable athlete. He just needs to be a pass first PG and attack the rim like few others can. He is also a very capable defender when he wants to be. He could easily be a 15/8/8 guy in 25 mins a night off the bench.

Darvin Ham is a very underrated addition to the Lakers this offseason. He is an out the mud kind of guy who won’t take shit.

Anthony is significantly bigger, plays the scarcest position and most importantly is a credible shooter, which allows him to play an off-ball role (most of the same went for Carter).

Westbrook has none of those things going for him. The only possible role he could fit into is as a 10-15 mpg backup surrounded by 3-4 shooters on a pseudo contender or treadmill team, but he'd never accept that and those teams wouldn't want the drama that having a big, delusional name in a relatively minimal role would inevitably bring.

[KingKev]

Anthony is significantly bigger, plays the scarcest position and most importantly is a credible shooter, which allows him to play an off-ball role (most of the same went for Carter).

Westbrook has none of those things going for him. The only possible role he could fit into is as a 10-15 mpg backup surrounded by 3-4 shooters on a pseudo contender or treadmill team, but he'd never accept that and those teams wouldn't want the drama that having a big, delusional name in a relatively minimal role would inevitably bring.

They have different skillsets but this is a VERY similar ego comparison. Melo adjusted and Russ has the option to. The off-ball piece and shooting are very important no doubt but so is Russ’ ability to play backup point, distribute, attack and defend. He can easily play his way into another 3 years if he checks his ego.

Also, Melo might be a wing but he is a horrid defender even when he tries.

Russ has the ability to come in as a backup point and run an offense.

[KingKev]

^ and I don’t agree with these Vince comparisons. Once Vince got to NJ and he slowly adapted his maturity, skillset as the years went on; those were important keys to his longevity.

[TD 21]

They have different skillsets but this is a VERY similar ego comparison. Melo adjusted and Russ has the option to. The off-ball piece and shooting are very important no doubt but so is Russ’ ability to play backup point, distribute, attack and defend. He can easily play his way into another 3 years if he checks his ego.

Also, Melo might be a wing but he is a horrid defender even when he tries.

Russ has the ability to come in as a backup point and run an offense.

Yeah, but like Leetonidas said and I alluded to, even if he tries to convince others he's changed, it still won't matter all that much.

Most players who age well or at least survive into their mid-late 30's, have enough size to slide up a position, play off ball, excel at a particular area of defense or some combination thereof.

If someone wants a backup with a similar style, they can sign Schroder, Bledsoe, Payton or Rondo.

[KingKev]

Yeah, but like Leetonidas said and I alluded to, even if he tries to convince others he's changed, it still won't matter all that much.

Most players who age well or at least survive into their mid-late 30's, have enough size to slide up a position, play off ball, excel at a particular area of defense or some combination thereof.

If someone wants a backup with a similar style, they can sign Schroder, Bledsoe, Payton or Rondo.

Agreed. This is all on Russ to salvage his last 3-5 years. I’m not holding my breath rather arguing he is at a crossroad and can still bounce back.

[TD 21]

Schroder to Lakers would seem to spell the end of the notion of Westbrook remaining on the active roster to start the season.

[KingKev]

Schroder to Lakers would seem to spell the end of the notion of Westbrook remaining on the active roster to start the season.

Sitting Russ only lessons his value which is already damn low but it might make them more inclined to consider a bad contract in return now that the PG slot is full. Low risk/high reward signing for the Lakers.

Lakers have to make a decision on 2023 now. Trading Russ for expirngs gives them a near max slot in free agency in 2023 with only AD and LBJ under contract and they will have to fill out the roster with exceptions/min contracts. Alternatively, they can take back 2-3 longer term contracts which they can resign using bird rights or use in a trade, stay well over the cap and still have access to the MLE next summer.

[Leetonidas]

Lol turning down 84 million over 4 years to sign minimum contracts

[exstatic]

He hasn’t lost much athleticism he just hasn’t gotten better anywhere else.

Remove his chucking and have him as a pass first guy who can slash, get to the bucket, rebound and potentially defend and he’s still solid. He has all the tools to do that if he buys in.

His knee has been a ticking time bomb since Beverly injured it. Tim went to a brace 9 years after his meniscus surgery, and he played much more below the rim than Russ. He’s 6 years past 27, peak athleticism, and while he can still show some athleticism,it ain’t Westbrook level.

[KingKev]

His knee has been a ticking time bomb since Beverly injured it. Tim went to a brace 9 years after his meniscus surgery, and he played much more below the rim than Russ. He’s 6 years past 27, peak athleticism, and while he can still show some athleticism,it ain’t Westbrook level.

33 and could run laps around most of our guys. His athletic ability is diminishing from a very high level.

[CGD]

What an idiot

Edit: that was in reference to Schroeder passing up 87M comment

[ginobilized]

If the Lakers keep Westbrook, it will be interesting to watch.
IF he can come off the bench and play like the vengeful assassin of his early days, might work.
An angry, motivated Westbrook is pretty amazing. Having his nemesis on the team should only add to his fire. Interesting scenario.

[KingKev]

If the Lakers keep Westbrook, it will be interesting to watch.
IF he can come off the bench and play like the vengeful assassin of his early days, might work.
An angry, motivated Westbrook is pretty amazing. Having his nemesis on the team should only add to his fire. Interesting scenario.

Pat Bev is already going to bat for Russ.

[Ariel]

I was counting the Lakers off, but they're doing ok from where where they started. Trading for Pat Bev and signing Schroder for the min are moves in the right direction, if they add a couple of veteran shooters, say a 3 way trade with Indy & Utah that gets them Turner + Hield + Bodganovic + something else in exchange for Westbrook + pick/s and/or swaps, they're definitely a playoff team that should get past the 1st round. Not a contender, though, unless all planets align (can't see them getting past Golden State, Boston, Milwaukee, etc.).

[tonight...you]

Sitting Russ only lessons his value which is already damn low but it might make them more inclined to consider a bad contract in return now that the PG slot is full. Low risk/high reward signing for the Lakers.

Lakers have to make a decision on 2023 now. Trading Russ for expirngs gives them a near max slot in free agency in 2023 with only AD and LBJ under contract and they will have to fill out the roster with exceptions/min contracts. Alternatively, they can take back 2-3 longer term contracts which they can resign using bird rights or use in a trade, stay well over the cap and still have access to the MLE next summer.
Honestly, they can just ride out this year and make the absolute best of it, be damned Russ's trade value.
Then they lose no picks, he's gone and they move forward.

They can try to be ultra aggressive to appease Lebron and his last years, but what do they truly gain?
What do they get?
He's gone either way after this year along with his contract.

[KingKev]

Honestly, they can just ride out this year and make the absolute best of it, be damned Russ's trade value.
Then they lose no picks, he's gone and they move forward.

They can try to be ultra aggressive to appease Lebron and his last years, but what do they truly gain?
What do they get?
He's gone either way after this year along with his contract.

The reason to trade Russ now and pay an unprotected FRP is to stay well over the salary cap in-terms of returning assets. Break his 47mm into 2-3 guys who are useful and movable or make sense to re-sign plus having exception money makes sense. Clearing cap space isn’t a winning game to make the best of LBJs last 2-3 years unless they are confident they have a game changer like Kyrie ready to sign for 30mm in 2023.

[Ariel]

Yup. The opportunity cost of sitting on Westbrook's contract and letting it expire is HUGE, since one season is about 50% to 33% of LeBron's window at best, and Westbrook's salary is the ONLY way they have to add enough players to strengthen their chances. Otherwise they should just blow it up and rebuild, which is hard to do when you don't control your picks for as many years.

[tonight...you]

The reason to trade Russ now and pay an unprotected FRP is to stay well over the salary cap in-terms of returning assets. Break his 47mm into 2-3 guys who are useful and movable or make sense to re-sign plus having exception money makes sense. Clearing cap space isn’t a winning game to make the best of LBJs last 2-3 years unless they are confident they have a game changer like Kyrie ready to sign for 30mm in 2023.
For the Spurs, or another team yes.
For the Lakers...
They aren't getting a Kyrie.
They aren't getting anything.

I think they ride it out, unless someone does something stupid.

[exstatic]

For the Spurs, or another team yes.
For the Lakers...
They aren't getting a Kyrie.
They aren't getting anything.

I think they ride it out, unless someone does something stupid.

If he rolls off next summer, LA is screwed. They don’t get any cap room from him rolling off, because they will still be over. The can’t go further over the cap for FAs or trades. At a MINIMUM, they need to pull a one year trade exception out of this. They can use that all the way up almost to training camp next year to fill their roster with some talent, using the TE to go further over the cap.

[talkspurs]

If he rolls off next summer, LA is screwed. They don’t get any cap room from him rolling off, because they will still be over. The can’t go further over the cap for FAs or trades. At a MINIMUM, they need to pull a one year trade exception out of this. They can use that all the way up almost to training camp next year to fill their roster with some talent, using the TE to go further over the cap.

This is originally thought as well but for the 2022-2023 season they only have 89 mil for 3 players. I think they would have cap holds if the renounced everyone for about a mil per for the remaining 9 roster slots. that would put them up to 98 mil. this years cap looks to be about 123 mil. 123-98 would give them about 25 mil for a FA correct?

[KingKev]

This is originally thought as well but for the 2022-2023 season they only have 89 mil for 3 players. I think they would have cap holds if the renounced everyone for about a mil per for the remaining 9 roster slots. that would put them up to 98 mil. this years cap looks to be about 123 mil. 123-98 would give them about 25 mil for a FA correct?

23-24 cap is estimated to be around 130mm so with ~90mm spoken for in LBJ/AD they could have a near max slot if they renounce everyone. Doesn’t sound like a very smart plan unless that third player is an absolute game changer and they are confident they can fill the rest of the roster out with min contracts and exceptions.

I think they are finally realizing they need some continuity in roster construction.

Will be interesting to see. I think if they look decent out the gate they let this squad ride and take their chances. If they flounder first 10-15 games Russ gets moved for multiple role
players.

[exstatic]

You also have to add $1.8M, the 2nd year NBA minimum salary, for each of the 12 empty slots.

[KingKev]

You also have to add $1.8M, the 2nd year NBA minimum salary, for each of the 12 empty slots.

Yeah I wasn’t even considering that.

Lakers are going to have a helluva time being true playoff contenders to close out LBJs career and it’s largely his fault.

[talkspurs]

You also have to add $1.8M, the 2nd year NBA minimum salary, for each of the 12 empty slots.

Is it the 2nd year NBA min or the rookie min? I thought it was the rookie min for cap holds and 2nd year is what the NBA pays the contract of a player on. (nba team is only responsible for paying the salary of a 2nd year player and NBA picks up the rest).

This is why I added in the 9 mil for unused cap holds as a rookie min is about a mil.

[exstatic]

Is it the 2nd year NBA min or the rookie min? I thought it was the rookie min for cap holds and 2nd year is what the NBA pays the contract of a player on. (nba team is only responsible for paying the salary of a 2nd year player and NBA picks up the rest).

This is why I added in the 9 mil for unused cap holds as a rookie min is about a mil.

Second year.

[TD 21]

Heard a while ago that the Lakers projected cap space for '23-'24 is $30Mish, which is significantly less than what Irving's max will be.

Throw in his volatility and injury prone history as well as James' age/mileage and they shouldn't hesitate if something emerges (the current options don't cut it) to get them back to at least pseudo contention.

[tonight...you]

If he rolls off next summer, LA is screwed. They don’t get any cap room from him rolling off, because they will still be over. The can’t go further over the cap for FAs or trades. At a MINIMUM, they need to pull a one year trade exception out of this. They can use that all the way up almost to training camp next year to fill their roster with some talent, using the TE to go further over the cap.
Gotcha

[talkspurs]

Second year.

where do you get 2nd year from. everything I see is saying rookie min.

"(1) If at any time from July 1 through the day prior to the first day of the Regular Season a Team has fewer than twelve (12) players, determined in accordance with Section 4(f)(2) below, included in 188 Article VII its Team Salary, then the Team’s Team Salary shall be increased by an amount calculated as follows: STEP 1: Subtract from twelve (12) the number of players included in Team Salary. STEP 2: If the result in Step 1 is a positive number, multiply the result in Step 1 by the Minimum Annual Salary applicable to players with zero (0) Years of Service under the Minimum Annual Salary Scale for that Salary Cap Year"
https://nbpa.com/cba the 2017 CBA page 187 188

[KingKev]

^ regardless at most they will have 25-30mm to sign a high caliber free agent and since they are tax payers will have limited exception money to play with in 2023.

McD might actually be more appealing to them than I originally thought but a deal with Utah looks inevitable.

[DPG21920]

Saw the timvp article: makes me sick that they signed Doug. I called it out immediately that it was a terrible and non sensical deal and now we are seeing the issues that type of deal brings. Gross.

[Robz4000]

Saw the timvp article: makes me sick that they signed Doug. I called it out immediately that it was a terrible and non sensical deal and now we are seeing the issues that type of deal brings. Gross.

:lol all the retards who said he'd be a valuable commodity

[objective]

McDermott was such a useless signing, just a waste of roster and money. Why? For what? So he can play 24 minutes and get 11 points on a developmental team as an over 30 player?

What a waste of time and money. Bottom 5 teams shouldn't be sending players to the gleague unless they're malnourished YMCA players like Poku. But with McDermott and Richardson combining for 48 minutes a game that doesn't leave much room for all of Vassell, Primo, Tre, Branham, Wesley and Keldon at the SF if Sochan is at the 4.

[Dverde]

McDermott can still space the floor. He isn’t worthless, he still shot the 3 pretty well last year. He’s actually good for a tank. He can help your young guys develop their offense while giving up points on defense to lose games.

[DPG21920]

McDermott can still space the floor. He isn’t worthless, he still shot the 3 pretty well last year. He’s actually good for a tank. He can help your young guys develop their offense while giving up points on defense to lose games.

Even if that’s true, Under no circumstances do you pay someone like that that much money for multiple years. Zero excuses for that deal.

[The Truth #6]

It would still be a stretch if he was a great leader but I don’t see him in ANY videos with the young players. Richardson is the better player and we still need to trade him, too. Hilarious.

[Atl Spur]

Even if that’s true, Under no circumstances do you pay someone like that that much money for multiple years. Zero excuses for that deal.

Brother that deal happens across the whole nba! Lol. It’s not an outlier

[The Truth #6]

McB was making almost half that much the year before. It's hard not to say it was an overpay. I mean, I don't think he had some amazing season the year before we got him.

[Ariel]

Brother that deal happens across the whole nba! Lol. It’s not an outlier
So there are many idiotic deals, that doesn't make it any less idiotic. When pretty much any average fan can see it for what it is, and reality proves that to be the case, there's no other way to call it.

[Dex]

Spurs legend Juancho Hernangomez (a.k.a. Bo Cruz) just helped Spain win their 4th EuroBasket title over France with 27 points (9/11, 7/9 from three)

[rankingtear]

So there are many idiotic deals, that doesn't make it any less idiotic. When pretty much any average fan can see it for what it is, and reality proves that to be the case, there's no other way to call it.
An average fan does not need to build an offense tbh. That is why these one way guys still get the bag.

[Ariel]

An average fan does not need to build an offense tbh. That is why these one way guys still get the bag.
What offense does McDermott help build? Unless you're talking about the offense to common sense, that is.

[DPG21920]

Brother that deal happens across the whole nba! Lol. It’s not an outlier

Oh for sure lol. I think there are more than a few dumb FO decisions and it’s not just spurs. But it still frustrates me that our FO fell into the trap :lol

But honestly, even though this path still requires execution and some luck I love what they’ve done and they have shown an ability to modernize their operations so I’m good.

[Dejounte]

What offense does McDermott help build? Unless you're talking about the offense to common sense, that is.

Spacing the floor? It’s like you guys have forgotten what it was like having 0 3 point threats on the team. That was only a few years ago. For folks who rant about how they know how to build a team better, seems like they have zero clue about team structure. Having a reliable 3 pt shooter (overpaid or not) allows the other guys to develop at a normal pace than if we had none causing guys to struggle dribbling in the paint. The situation with Poeltl is the same. Having competent players surround your prospects gives them training wheels to play how they should play and not overcompensate for something because other parts of the body are weak. It’s development 101. Not to mention it allows the coach to say to players that they have to shoot as good or better than McD to get on the floor which has its own motivational advantages.

And I understand McD has weak defense. You’d rather overcompensate on defense than offense since 1) offense is more modern, anyway and 2) the team needs a player to develop into a go-to scorer as the top priority.

[KingKev]

^ another reason why McD is actually a great tank commander. Won’t win you any games but is a floor spacer and moves well without the ball.

Jak is going to win you a few games however. Although without DJ spoon feeding him in the PnR I suspect his offensive game takes a step back.

[Atl Spur]

Market value is actually a real thing coupled with supply and demand. That’s all

[exstatic]

^ another reason why McD is actually a great tank commander. Won’t win you any games but is a floor spacer and moves well without the ball.

Jak is going to win you a few games however. Although without DJ spoon feeding him in the PnR I suspect his offensive game takes a step back.

If they start Tre, the PnR won’t miss a beat, and might actually be better.

[KingKev]

If they start Tre, the PnR won’t miss a beat, and might actually be better.

I’m a huge proponent of Tre but DJ is way more of a scoring threat and he and Jak had great chemistry.

[Ariel]

Spacing the floor? It’s like you guys have forgotten what it was like having 0 3 point threats on the team. That was only a few years ago. For folks who rant about how they know how to build a team better, seems like they have zero clue about team structure. Having a reliable 3 pt shooter (overpaid or not) allows the other guys to develop at a normal pace than if we had none causing guys to struggle dribbling in the paint. The situation with Poeltl is the same. Having competent players surround your prospects gives them training wheels to play how they should play and not overcompensate for something because other parts of the body are weak. It’s development 101. Not to mention it allows the coach to say to players that they have to shoot as good or better than McD to get on the floor which has its own motivational advantages.

And I understand McD has weak defense. You’d rather overcompensate on defense than offense since 1) offense is more modern, anyway and 2) the team needs a player to develop into a go-to scorer as the top priority.
No one is arguing against he need for shooting and floor spacing, the problem is paying 40M for a one dimensional player who offers only that and is a liability everywhere else, which you could make an argument for a contending team, but not for a team that was clearly very far off. That's not just my view (or many others' around here), just about the entire league's view on McDermott, apparently.

[K...]

No one is arguing against he need for shooting and floor spacing, the problem is paying 40M for a one dimensional player who offers only that and is a liability everywhere else, which you could make an argument for a contending team, but not for a team that was clearly very far off. That's not just my view (or many others' around here), just about the entire league's view on McDermott, apparently.

I have bad news for you about the kind of free agents who will willingly sign here . Also lol at the idea that bad teams need good players. ..what a concept!

[KingKev]

No one is arguing against he need for shooting and floor spacing, the problem is paying 40M for a one dimensional player who offers only that and is a liability everywhere else, which you could make an argument for a contending team, but not for a team that was clearly very far off. That's not just my view (or many others' around here), just about the entire league's view on McDermott, apparently.

He preaches logic but it only takes one whiff of PATFO’s panties and his emotions take over. Sniffer extraordinaire.

The fact we had to overpay Dougie to be here is a whole other conversation.

[Dejounte]

Douchebag can’t get off these nuts. I don’t know why your pussy ass chimes in when you showed your true colors supporting dumbasses like Anthony Edwards and diminishing the act by calling it simply bad language when the dude was a coward for talking shit about people who are simply standing there. That’s your ilk and all your toxic masculinity is a shame to all society. Keep being the bitch you are on this forum.

[BacktoBasics]

Douchebag can’t get off these nuts. I don’t know why your pussy ass chimes in when you showed your true colors supporting dumbasses like Anthony Edwards and diminishing the act by calling it simply bad language when the dude was a coward for talking shit about people who are simply standing there. That’s your ilk and all your toxic masculinity is a shame to all society. Keep being the bitch you are on this forum.
:lmao if toxic masculinity were a forum it would definitely be this place.

[koriwhat]

:lmao if toxic masculinity were a forum it would definitely be this place.

Masculinity is only toxic to pussies like you bro. :tu

[tonight...you]

Masculinity is only toxic to pussies like you bro. :tu
Look at tough guy over here!
Flex them there internet muscles bubba. Show that masculinity.

[Dejounte]

Per usual, the pussy runs away with his tail between his legs… back to the topic.


No one is arguing against he need for shooting and floor spacing, the problem is paying 40M for a one dimensional player who offers only that and is a liability everywhere else, which you could make an argument for a contending team, but not for a team that was clearly very far off. That's not just my view (or many others' around here), just about the entire league's view on McDermott, apparently.

No one was arguing the need for shooting? You clearly were when I was responding to your post “what offense does McDermott help build”? That’s what my entire post was about. I addressed the contract and his liabilities which is a separate point to “what offense does McD help build”. Your own words brought up an argument to rankingtear’s post about building an offense. Bro, this is some weird gaslighting.

[BacktoBasics]

Masculinity is only toxic to pussies like you bro. :tu

You’re gonna show everyone how angry and tough you are when you shoot up that shopping mall.

That’ll show them not to fuck with your incel army.

[KingKev]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10049583-trade-targets-to-put-nba-contenders-over-the-top

BR quoting Dejounte (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=51342) father timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8)

Really don’t see GS as a destination for Jak unless Pop just wants to help his buddy but it is feasible.

I know they are high on all their youth so it’d be Looney and an FRP which isn’t enough but if we gave them our 23 SRP, Jak for Looney, PBJ and their 23 FRP Id do it.

[The Truth #6]

KK: I could see a deal like that happening. Something we didn’t initially expect.

[KingKev]

KK: I could see a deal like that happening. Something we didn’t initially expect.

We have a history of trading with friendlies.

Jak would be a nice upgrade over Looney in that starting lineup in GS and could slide in seamlessly alongside Draymond, Wiggins and probably Wiseman too upfront.

I have read they are VERY high on PBJ however but there are iterations that could suit both sides.

Sounds like Boston is ready to spend also and Jak would be great insurance to Horford/Williams.

[The Truth #6]

Yeah, teams with a title window make sense. It would likely be a first round pick in the late 20s, but picking at 29 has been pretty magical so far so maybe that’s all we should shoot for? Lol.

[Ariel]

If it's Golden State, then 2 FRP is about the least we can get back, as those picks are set to be as low as you can possibly expect. I'd rather take one pick in the late teens than 2 from the Warriors, to be honest. Also I'm not high on PBJ at all, everything I've seen and read from him screams trouble, from his attitude, his decision making, his athleticism, even his shooting seems overrated. He was a lowly first and even that was a surprise, I'd rather take a future first than him honestly. But I could see them interested in Poeltl.

[koriwhat]

You’re gonna show everyone how angry and tough you are when you shoot up that shopping mall.

That’ll show them not to fuck with your incel army.

First off, you're a bitch and thus you go the "mass shooter" route when in fact you fit the mold bro. Second, the incel thing is played out especially when I've consistently said I have a lady and have had a lady for some yrs now. Third, I don't visit malls you fucking loser.

Your projection is duly noted bro. Can't wait to see your incel ass on tv one day after you shoot up said mall you fucking pussy. :tu

[koriwhat]

I don't want to get rid of Jak but if that's the plan at the minimum a couple FRP are a must.

[The Truth #6]

It might not be our plan. Next Summer it could be his plan.

[R. DeMurre]

Douchebag can’t get off these nuts. I don’t know why your pussy ass chimes in when you showed your true colors supporting dumbasses like Anthony Edwards and diminishing the act by calling it simply bad language when the dude was a coward for talking shit about people who are simply standing there. That’s your ilk and all your toxic masculinity is a shame to all society. Keep being the bitch you are on this forum.


You're calling someone a douchbag, a pussy ass, and a bitch, and then saying he is guilty of toxic masculinity? Wow. Look in the mirror. Do all three of those insults have anything in common?

[Ariel]

What would it take to get OG Anunoby out of Toronto? Poeltl + Richardson + Charlotte's pick + future second (2024? I wouldn't want to give up 2023...)?

[TD 21]

:lmao Why are writers still bringing up this Poeltl to the Warriors nonsense and Spurs fans getting sucked in?

They just won the championship with Looney, who's almost become their Bowen/Mills in terms of how they value him internally and finally have Wiseman set to return (might as well find out what they have as opposed to selling low), in addition to the Green's as small ball options.

Anunoby only made sense with Murray. Now that they've finally ripped the band-aid off (or will once Poeltl is traded), there's no reason to have any interest in an injury prone, young, veteran role player/team with delusions of grandeur.

[Chinook]

What would it take to get OG Anunoby out of Toronto? Poeltl + Richardson + Charlotte's pick + future second (2024? I wouldn't want to give up 2023...)?

I wouldn't give positive value for OG at this point. Nothing against him, but the Spurs are going to have to figure out if Keldon is a keeper and don't need another reason to not play Sochan. In the event later in the year Keldon and Vassell make huge leaps and the Spurs are a playoff contender somehow, it's still hard to see them wanting to trade Poeltl for OG, since Jakob would almost certainly be a huge part of their hypothetical surprise season. OG is a good fit with Johnson though. That's something to consider in the off-season after next.

[KingKev]

You're calling someone a douchbag, a pussy ass, and a bitch, and then saying he is guilty of toxic masculinity? Wow. Look in the mirror. Do all three of those insults have anything in common?

Haha he’s sometimes a smart kid just damn emotional.

For the record I don’t cosign Ant’s use of homophobic language, just not going to cancel a 22yr old for making a mistake. He apologized, was fined 40k, received endless backlash from his employer, the media and probably got a slap on his head from ppl in his close circle. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and bet he uses this as a learning experience.

I’m sure he has been on the receiving end of some hateful slurs in his lifetime too.

[BacktoBasics]

First off, you're a bitch and thus you go the "mass shooter" route when in fact you fit the mold bro. Second, the incel thing is played out especially when I've consistently said I have a lady and have had a lady for some yrs now. Third, I don't visit malls you fucking loser.

Your projection is duly noted bro. Can't wait to see your incel ass on tv one day after you shoot up said mall you fucking pussy. :tu
I highly doubt you have a lady. If you do you definitely don’t have a good sex life or maybe you can’t get it up. She fat? Really ugly? So she tolerates you, probably supports you because she fears being alone.

Something like that.

No one getting laid regularly acts the way you do. She’d absolutely be better off with out an insufferable asshole who isn’t happy unless he’s fighting with strangers anonymously. I feel horrible for her.

Either way. You have real world issues and I’m sure the people around suffer because of it. You’re a miserable piece of shit and it’s clear you get off making others miserable. That absolutely exist in your offline life just like it does here.

[koriwhat]

I highly doubt you have a lady. If you do you definitely don’t have a good sex life or maybe you can’t get it up. She fat? Really ugly? So she tolerates you, probably supports you because she fears being alone.

Something like that.

No one getting laid regularly acts the way you do. She’d absolutely be better off with out an insufferable asshole who isn’t happy unless he’s fighting with strangers anonymously. I feel horrible for her.

Either way. You have real world issues and I’m sure the people around suffer because of it. You’re a miserable piece of shit and it’s clear you get off making others miserable. That absolutely exist in your offline life just like it does here.

LMAO :lmao

You really think you know it all huh? You really think you're some sort of shrink? :lol

Bro, I am far from miserable just because you wish that was the case and my lady is far from being overweight, ugly, et al. Btw, her and I don't live together; I run my own biz and support myself bro. You, and the others here, have a way of projecting your insecurities on others here because you truly wish everyone was as pathetic as you are. It's hilarious to say the least.

Btw, who do I make miserable exactly? I only shit talk you pathetic fucks here because yall shit talk me. You got mad the other week over a freaking emoji of all things so you know it's time to constantly shit on you from here on out you emotional wreck who's all up in his/her/its feelings.

Cry some more you big baby! :cry :lol

[koriwhat]

It might not be our plan. Next Summer it could be his plan.

That's def true. I guess something of value in return now would be better than letting him walk for nothing.

[BacktoBasics]

LMAO :lmao

You really think you know it all huh? You really think you're some sort of shrink? :lol

Bro, I am far from miserable just because you wish that was the case and my lady is far from being overweight, ugly, et al. Btw, her and I don't live together; I run my own biz and support myself bro. You, and the others here, have a way of projecting your insecurities on others here because you truly wish everyone was as pathetic as you are. It's hilarious to say the least.

Btw, who do I make miserable exactly? I only shit talk you pathetic fucks here because yall shit talk me. You got mad the other week over a freaking emoji of all things so you know it's time to constantly shit on you from here on out you emotional wreck who's all up in his/her/its feelings.

Cry some more you big baby! :cry :lol

Of course you don’t live together. You’re a miserable cunt. No one wants to live with that.

You run your own biz? A side hustle no doubt. You got some anger art on Etsy?

Never heard a business owner say “I run my own biz”. Most businesses owners state what they own not run. I’m self employed. I don’t run a biz, I’m a business owner in _____ industry. Your wording is suspect.

Your claim doesn’t pass the sniff test. Tell us what you do. I want to know what specifically you do to “support yourself”.

Which is also a weird thing for an adult to say. An adult living at mom and dads with a job might say that. You know because you “support” yourself and don’t need mom or dad to front you money for a couple grams and a breakfast taco. A kid would say he supports himself because he’s proud to finally be employed with minimal outside help.

You’re like a fake adult. I’m not buying your bs.

Prove it.

Post a picture of that fake girlfriend from Canada too. You can blur her butterface. I want to see what level of fake girlfriend you’ll try to pass off as legit. No way you can land anything better than a 4 but I’m thinking with your ego issues you’ll try to pass off a solid 9.

[Atl Spur]

Of course you don’t live together. You’re a miserable cunt. No one wants to live with that.

You run your own biz? A side hustle no doubt. You got some anger art on Etsy?

Never heard a business owner say “I run my own biz”. Most businesses owners state what they own not run. I’m self employed. I don’t run a biz, I’m a business owner in _____ industry. Your wording is suspect.

Your claim doesn’t pass the sniff test. Tell us what you do. I want to know what specifically you do to “support yourself”.

Which is also a weird thing for an adult to say. An adult living at mom and dads with a job might say that. You know because you “support” yourself and don’t need mom or dad to front you money for a couple grams and a breakfast taco. A kid would say he supports himself because he’s proud to finally be employed with minimal outside help.

You’re like a fake adult. I’m not buying your bs.

Prove it.

Post a picture of that fake girlfriend from Canada too. You can blur her butterface. I want to see what level of fake girlfriend you’ll try to pass off as legit. No way you can land anything better than a 4 but I’m thinking with your ego issues you’ll try to pass off a solid 9.


Damn……..what he do to you? Lol.

[BacktoBasics]

Damn……..what he do to you? Lol.

He needs to be knocked down a peg or two. Dude runs up in this forum daily just shitting on every thread he enters. I’m fucking tired of reading his shit and tbh I can see right though his façade. He’s just a fake fucking loser.

[jjspur]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10049583-trade-targets-to-put-nba-contenders-over-the-top

BR quoting Dejounte (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=51342) father timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8)

Really don’t see GS as a destination for Jak unless Pop just wants to help his buddy but it is feasible.

I know they are high on all their youth so it’d be Looney and an FRP which isn’t enough but if we gave them our 23 SRP, Jak for Looney, PBJ and their 23 FRP Id do it.

Usually the spurs don't get the better end of a deal ( other than the last 2 years) , but in this case it seems very fair to both teams. If I had to get rid of Poeltl, this would be the trade I'd do.

[TD 21]

Haha he’s sometimes a smart kid just damn emotional.

For the record I don’t cosign Ant’s use of homophobic language, just not going to cancel a 22yr old for making a mistake. He apologized, was fined 40k, received endless backlash from his employer, the media and probably got a slap on his head from ppl in his close circle. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and bet he uses this as a learning experience.

I’m sure he has been on the receiving end of some hateful slurs in his lifetime too.

Mistake is one of the most misused words extant. A 22-year-old man spewing homophobic language wasn't that it was ignorance. He "apologized" for PR purposes and the only learning he'll potentially do is to do a better job of concealing his ignorance in the future.

Middle aged - old mostly white people whining every time someone is called out for their ignorance now and attempting to thinly veil their archaic, ignorant thinking with terms like "cancel culture", is the epitome of arrogance.

Only someone of that ilk would think it's up to them to determine what is or should be offensive to people who aren't like them.

[Ariel]

https://twitter.com/TheAthleticNBA/status/1572707965311877120

The Lakers and Pacers engaged in trade conversations this week per @ShamsCharania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)
Los Angeles was unwilling to part with two unprotected first-round picks for any deal involving Buddy Hield or Myles Turner.
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2022/09/21/pacers-gm-says-myles-turner-will-open-season-with-the-team/

Pacers GM Chad Buchanan said that Myles Turner will be with the Pacers on opening night as his starting center. [...]
Buchanan called Turner an “absolute pro” with how he’s handled the rumors and he’ll be a great veteran to help navigate the waters on this new-look team early on, but everyone knows it’s just a matter of time before another team comes calling for one of the NBA’s best shot blockers.

The Lakers and Pacers engaged in trade talks around Myles Turner and Buddy Hield. Again. Indiana demanded two unprotected first-round picks. Again. The Lakers turned them down. Again.
This is good news for us. The Pacers setting a steep price for Myles Turner raises Poeltl's value, and we might be able to take advantage of that as the next best thing that's available.

[heyheymymy]

1572810579105939457oof ime udoka

[KingKev]

1572810579105939457oof ime udoka




Damn. Immediately cancelled. As a once strong and growing root of Pop’s coaching tree and lineage we Spurs fans expect better.

[lefty20]

Damn. Immediately cancelled. As a once strong and growing root of Pop’s coaching tree and lineage we Spurs fans expect better.

Hardly. He's not getting fired, according to Shams & Woj.
Suspension =/= cancelled. Dude violated company policy and is getting punished for it.

[KingKev]

Hardly. He's not getting fired, according to Shams & Woj.
Suspension =/=cancelled. Dude violated company policy and is getting punished for it.

lol I was being sarcastic.

[lefty20]

lol I was being sarcastic.

oh... my apologies.

[mo7888]

The Pistons are sending Kelly Olynyk and Saben Lee to the Jazz for Bojan Bogdanovic, sources tell me and @JLEdwardsIII.

Shams

[KingKev]

The Pistons are sending Kelly Olynyk and Saben Lee to the Jazz for Bojan Bogdanovic, sources tell me and @JLEdwardsIII.

Shams

Basically gave Bogdanovich away. Not even much money saved. Olynyk can probably moved for a second down the line but still.

Good news for us. One less asset off the market and a fk you to Lakers lol.

[Ariel]

Wow. I really didn't see Bodganovic going for that, or to Detroit. A few takaways from it:
1) Detroit's tanking is over, they've got their foundation and are now focused on developing them. Adding a veteran shooter can help open things up for their young guys (Ivey, Cunningham, Hayes, etc.), and getting rid of a center getting in the way of Duren.
2) Utah REALLY doesn't want anything to mess with their tanking. It's going to get ugly.
3) Ainge is petty... when he can't get what he wants, he's just making sure the other party doesn't either. A big F you to every contender who pursued Bogdanovic and didn't want to pay up.

[KingKev]

Wow. I really didn't see Bodganovic going for that, or to Detroit. A few takaways from it:
1) Detroit's tanking is over, they've got their foundation and are now focused on developing them. Adding a veteran shooter can help open things up for their young guys (Ivey, Cunningham, Hayes, etc.), and getting rid of a center getting in the way of Duren.
2) Utah REALLY doesn't want anything to mess with their tanking. It's going to get ugly.
3) Ainge is petty... when he can't get what he wants, he's just making sure the other party doesn't either. A big F you to every contender who pursued Bogdanovic and didn't want to pay up.

Good takes. They also have Sadiq Bey who was pretty impressive in his 2nd year plus Bagley showed some promise once he got there last season.

And they have solid cap space.

Ainge can afford to be Petty given the haul he got for Gobert and Mitchell; the tanks is more important than a distant, protected FRP. PATFO needs to take notes at two franchises who are making progress in turning things around in short order.

[Chinook]

Bogdanovic isn't that valuable. That's something that folks were missing when discussing trades. It's not uber surprising he didn't go for much.

[KingKev]

Bogdanovic isn't that valuable. That's something that folks were missing when discussing trades. It's not uber surprising he didn't go for much.

Utah took a sure thing. I think he had more value in a bigger package. I can’t help but think how helpful he could have been for a true contender in a limited role.

[The Truth #6]

Definitely more valuable than McBuckets.

[Ariel]

Bogdanovic isn't that valuable. That's something that folks were missing when discussing trades. It's not uber surprising he didn't go for much.
He's 33 and expiring, and that certainly caps his value, but he's a proven scorer who shoots near 40% shooter from 3, and can contribute right now at a high level for any playoff team. There's no way they couldn't get a better offer than that if they were willing to wait a bit, or use him in a bigger package.

[DPG21920]

Bogdanovic isn't that valuable. That's something that folks were missing when discussing trades. It's not uber surprising he didn't go for much.

I mean…Utah got no picks and took on an extra year of salary in Kelly. It’s a head-scratcher tbh

[KingKev]

I mean…Utah got no picks and took on an extra year of salary in Kelly. It’s a head-scratcher tbh

It’s only 3mm guaranteed for Olynyk in year two and he will score an SRP by the deadline.

[DPG21920]

It’s only 3mm guaranteed for Olynyk in year two and he will score an SRP by the deadline.

Sure but it still puts money on the books next year that otherwise wouldn’t be there - not a huge deal but to not get a pick and taking on 3M next year? Odd

[jjspur]

Although Utah is in tank mode, I think Ainge is getting rid of players he as a former coach doesn't particularly care to have on his team( overpaid and a distraction) . If he gets tons of players and picks while tanking/restarting, it just shows he's better at his job than most GM's or whatever title he has now.

He isn't finished yet. The league should beware, and as for the Lakers, Ainge doesn't give a crap about them and won't trade a semi-valuable asset to them for crappy, over paid, washed up players. Rob Pelinka is crying somewhere in his small office next to LeBron's big GM office. I know Russ may still get traded somewhere, but its less likely he goes to Utah not with Ainge in charge. If any GM sticks it to the lakers it will be Ainge.

[KingKev]

Sure but it still puts money on the books next year that otherwise wouldn’t be there - not a huge deal but to not get a pick and taking on 3M next year? Odd

Tanking is more important and Ainge probably enjoyed trying to tax the Lakers and finally said fk you. Stubbornness, ego and pettiness are real at the general management level. Relationships matter too.

I think today’s trade is good for us.

[TD 21]

Terrible trade by the Jazz, but Ainge is one of the golden boys to national media types, so that'll lessen the blow publicly.

Interestingly, that's four relatively prominent players (Wood, Grant, Brogdon, Bogdanovic) this off season who have now been traded for significantly less than expected.

Not a good sign for what Poeltl and to a lesser extent Richardson are likely to command.

[exstatic]

Terrible trade by the Jazz, but Ainge is one of the golden boys to national media types, so that'll lessen the blow publicly.

Interestingly, that's four relatively prominent players (Wood, Grant, Brogdon, Bogdanovic) this off season who have now been traded for significantly less than expected.

Not a good sign for what Poeltl and to a lesser extent Richardson are likely to command.

Poeltl and JRich are two way players who won’t cause you any problems. Wood is a fucking head case that was being dumped to make way for Sengün, and similarly Brogdon was move to fully give the keys to Halliburton, and not cause problems.

People on this forum also tend to value players way differently than actual GMs, leaning hard into counting stats in spite of the move to advanced stats/WS/BPM. All front offices use those heavily, and I’d bet that >25 front offices would value Poeltl higher than any of those four players. Posters on this forum are like baseball fans still obsessing over batting average in like 2010.

[KingKev]

Poeltl and JRich are two way players who won’t cause you any problems. Wood is a fucking head case that was being dumped to make way for Sengün, and similarly Brogdon was move to fully give the keys to Halliburton, and not cause problems.

People on this forum also tend to value players way differently than actual GMs, leaning hard into counting stats in spite of the move to advanced stats/WS/BPM. All front offices use those heavily, and I’d bet that >25 front offices would value Poeltl higher than any of those four players. Posters on this forum are like baseball fans still obsessing over batting average in like 2010.

Advanced analytics aren’t be all end all. Any astute GM should be using a plethora of information/metrics and apply differing weights as they see fit with what works in their system.

Like valuing any asset or potential liability. It’s not black and white.

[TD 21]

Poeltl and JRich are two way players who won’t cause you any problems. Wood is a fucking head case that was being dumped to make way for Sengün, and similarly Brogdon was move to fully give the keys to Halliburton, and not cause problems.

People on this forum also tend to value players way differently than actual GMs, leaning hard into counting stats in spite of the move to advanced stats/WS/BPM. All front offices use those heavily, and I’d bet that >25 front offices would value Poeltl higher than any of those four players. Posters on this forum are like baseball fans still obsessing over batting average in like 2010.

I know (Brogdon was also a salary dump whose value tanked due to his being injury prone), I'm just saying.

Partially true, but many catch all metrics paint rim running/protecting centers like Poeltl in a better light than the likes of Brogdon and Grant, but they have more value in a playoff setting because as wing sized 3 and D types who offer varying degrees of shot creation/play making, they're far harder to exploit than a limited player like Poeltl.

[DPG21920]

Tanking is more important and Ainge probably enjoyed trying to tax the Lakers and finally said fk you. Stubbornness, ego and pettiness are real at the general management level. Relationships matter too.

I think today’s trade is good for us.

No way. It absolutely crushed trade values for Doug & Josh. Maybe Jakob too

[KingKev]

No way. It absolutely crushed trade values for Doug & Josh. Maybe Jakob too

Doug never had trade value.

This is one more veteran player removed from the market from an unlikely buyer. If/when the Lakers shit the bed the first 15 games and are forced to make a move we are now relatively more competitive.

[heyheymymy]

but I thought Boggo was just what Bron and AD needed to win a ring?

[Ariel]

No way. It absolutely crushed trade values for Doug & Josh. Maybe Jakob too
Jakob's market value is much more closely tied with the asking price for Myles Turner than anything else, which so far is sky high. We should just capitalize on that sooner rather than later, because time might change that.
Also it came out that Bodganovic's price is also tied to Utah's refusal to take back salary, because they did receive offers for first rounders but with other players attached. I think most of us are in agreement that Josh Richardson in a vacuum is unlikely to net us a first, but putting it all together, if we're willing to wait for the right time and accept some salary back, we might actually be able to pull it of (or for a package including him, more appropriately).

[CGD]

Lateral meh trade. Folks probably confusing the more talented Atlanta player with the good but older Utah player with a similar Slavic last name.

[Ariel]

Lateral meh trade. Folks probably confusing the more talented Atlanta player with the good but older Utah player with a similar Slavic last name.
The last name isn't similar, it's the same. Even the first names are similar: Bojan (formerly Utah, now Detroit) vs Bogdan (Atlanta). But I think it's you who has them confused.

[DPG21920]

Jakob's market value is much more closely tied with the asking price for Myles Turner than anything else, which so far is sky high. We should just capitalize on that sooner rather than later, because time might change that.
Also it came out that Bodganovic's price is also tied to Utah's refusal to take back salary, because they did receive offers for first rounders but with other players attached. I think most of us are in agreement that Josh Richardson in a vacuum is unlikely to net us a first, but putting it all together, if we're willing to wait for the right time and accept some salary back, we might actually be able to pull it of (or for a package including him, more appropriately).

Maybe, but by definition (IMO) they took back salary. Kelly has an extra year on his deal. So sure, they saved some money this year, but they added 3M to the books next year. Just odd IMO even if its not a big deal.

[KingKev]

Maybe, but by definition (IMO) they took back salary. Kelly has an extra year on his deal. So sure, they saved some money this year, but they added 3M to the books next year. Just odd IMO even if its not a big deal.

Detroit also sent 1.7mm cash to cover Saben Lee’s 2022-23 salary.

They save 6.5mm in 2022-23 and added 3mm to 2023-24 if Olynyk isn’t moved before next year. Olynyk will probably look attractive come trade deadline for a playoff team looking to add depth so I bet he is moved again.