Official 2022 NBA Free Agency Thread

[ace3g]

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Chris Haynes ChrisBHaynes
(https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes)1m (https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/1543378879099703297)
The Los Angeles Lakers and Brooklyn Nets are actively engaged in trade discussions centered on a Russell Westbrook-Kyrie Irving package, league sources tell @YahooSports (https://twitter.com/YahooSports/):

[3&D_TBH]

It's going to be devastating, tbh. Team chemistry and team morale -- gone. We basically nephewed all the young players on the team.

Man I really wish you would stop with the relentless negativity. You have absolutely no way of actually quantifying team morale, yet you speak as if it's complete shit. Just stop it. When one of Primo or Branham or Wesley are actually better than Murray in two years, will you be around to own all this shit you say? DJ himself said that the Spurs did him right. What do you want, tbh?

[Mr. Body]

Man I really wish you would stop with the relentless negativity. You have absolutely no way of actually quantifying team morale, yet you speak as if it's complete shit. Just stop it. When one of Primo or Branham or Wesley are actually better than Murray in two years, will you be around to own all this shit you say? DJ himself said that the Spurs did him right. What do you want, tbh?

And I wish you disphits would understand this is actually what is happening. Get your dumb head out of your dumb ass.

[Mr. Body]

Meanwhile, good for Jock to get to a contender. It was stupid for the Spurs to get rid of him, since they'll actually need him this year.

[poopbox]

Everyday we don't use this cap space letting Gallo walk for nothing looks dumber and dumber

[CGD]

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Chris Haynes ChrisBHaynes
(https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes)1m (https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/1543378879099703297)
The Los Angeles Lakers and Brooklyn Nets are actively engaged in trade discussions centered on a Russell Westbrook-Kyrie Irving package, league sources tell @YahooSports (https://twitter.com/YahooSports/):

Will the use our space or won’t they, is the question.

[tonight...you]

we got all the pieces just not the main one. A franchise player. So we are trying to find a franchise player to pair with all those young guys we have while also having future assets and cap space. Seems like the right strategy to me. Now if we get that guy in the next draft great. Rebuild basically over, even though we will suck for another 3 years probably. But if we don't, we could be in for a long ride
Like a good football team that's just needing a Franchise QB.

[tbdog]

No they won’t, because both bigs will be dragged into PICK and rolls repeatedly, isolated on small sniper Guards, and get bombed with 3 pointers. Who cares if Gobert dunks on the other end. That’s only 2 points.

During the playoffs, yes. During the regular season, no. Wolves wanted rim protector because of Towns faults. They got the best one. Gobert covers bad defenders. It falls apart in the playoffs.

[3&D_TBH]

And I wish you disphits would understand this is actually what is happening. Get your dumb head out of your dumb ass.

Yea, I'm a dipshit because I'm a multiple tour combat vet/school teacher who knows you can't possible quantify an abstract concept such as morale. It's nothing personal, my friend, but I see you speaking as if you are hanging out with the spurs young talent every day, and it is simply fallacious. How do you know that the players aren't glad that more minutes have opened up for them to grow? They knew they weren't title contenders with the way things were constructed. This is the nature of the NBA. You seem like a whiner, tbh.

[tonight...you]

And I wish you disphits would understand this is actually what is happening. Get your dumb head out of your dumb ass.
You are the most sour dude here man.

[Mr. Body]

Yea, I'm a dipshit because I'm a multiple tour combat vet/school teacher who knows you can't possible quantify an abstract concept such as morale. It's nothing personal, my friend, but I see you speaking as if you are hanging out with the spurs young talent every day, and it is simply fallacious. How do you know that the players aren't glad that more minutes have opened up for them to grow? They knew they weren't title contenders with the way things were constructed. This is the nature of the NBA. You seem like a whiner, tbh.

Oh holy shit now I know you're a dumbass. This is one of the most pathetic things I've seen on a message board. Trading in your bullshit credentials this way is just sad.

And you're still wrong. This ain't a vidya game, kid.

[Mr. Body]

You are the most sour dude here man.

I'm not the one in this babyish circle jerk. Just wait.

[mystargtr34]

Wonder Boston makes a push for Durant with a Jaylen Brown + Marcus Smart + picks package.

Now that they have Brogdon and Gallinari.

Brogdon-Tatum-Durant-Horford-Rob Williams with Pritchard, White, Gallinari, Grant Williams off the bench. They will miss the perimeter D of Smart and Brown but it’s KD.

If the Celtics don’t go after Durant I think they have strengthened their team tremendously in their weakest areas (playmaking and scoring) and will be the team to beat along with the Bucks if they stay healthy.

[3&D_TBH]

Oh holy shit now I know you're a dumbass. This is one of the most pathetic things I've seen on a message board. Trading in your bullshit credentials this way is just sad.

And you're still wrong. This ain't a vidya game, kid.

Funny that you try to roast my "credentials" as a way of avoiding the point. You don't stay on point, you lose the argument. And that's what you do again and again. Again how do you quantify morale, Mr. "I know how the players feel"?
bstract fallacy expert?

[BacktoBasics]

we got all the pieces just not the main one. A franchise player. So we are trying to find a franchise player to pair with all those young guys we have while also having future assets and cap space. Seems like the right strategy to me. Now if we get that guy in the next draft great. Rebuild basically over, even though we will suck for another 3 years probably. But if we don't, we could be in for a long ride
You rarely know a guy is a franchise piece the first year. Usually takes a couple years to develop. Awkward timing when it comes to the other rookie contracts of Keldon and Vassell.

[Ariel]

Wonder Boston makes a push for Durant with a Jaylen Brown + Marcus Smart + picks package.

Now that they have Brogdon and Gallinari.

Brogdon-Tatum-Durant-Horford-Rob Williams with Pritchard, White, Gallinari, Grant Williams off the bench. They will miss the perimeter D of Smart and Brown but it’s KD.

If the Celtics don’t go after Durant I think they have strengthened their team tremendously in their weakest areas (playmaking and scoring) and will be the team to beat along with the Bucks if they stay healthy.
I was going to jump at you after the first line, for proposing the Celtics let go of Jaylen Brown & Marcus Smart... but damn, that lineup looks nasty. They'd lose two key defensive cogs, but their offense would skyrocket. I don't usually love "all in" moves, but this one makes sense. Also, it gives the Nets 2 valuable, young players in their prime to build around.

[tonight...you]

I'm not the one in this babyish circle jerk. Just wait.
Okay.
You're still the most sour dude here man.
It's ugly.

[Dejounte]

Tbh if Simmons + Westbrook happens, I think that’s enough to keep those Rockets picks from being top 10

[RC_Drunkford]

Man I really wish you would stop with the relentless negativity. You have absolutely no way of actually quantifying team morale, yet you speak as if it's complete shit. Just stop it. When one of Primo or Branham or Wesley are actually better than Murray in two years, will you be around to own all this shit you say? DJ himself said that the Spurs did him right. What do you want, tbh?

you probably didn't see the Keldon interview where he almost had tears in eyes


Based on what? At this writing only Johnson and Vassell have so much as established themselves as rotation players and none of Primo, Sochan, Branham or Wesley are can't miss prospects.

If they can get one top 3 player on a good - elite team out of that group, it should probably be considered a success.

I'm pretty confident Vassell can be that good and the jury is still out on the other guys. Even if not, the Spurs have enough flexibility and picks to get some deals done. But they really need Wembenyama or this will take long as fuck


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Chris Haynes (https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes)Chris (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=1656)BHaynes
1m (https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/1543378879099703297)
The Los Angeles Lakers and Brooklyn Nets are actively engaged in trade discussions centered on a Russell Westbrook-Kyrie Irving package, league sources tell @YahooSports (https://twitter.com/YahooSports/):


if this is really happening the NBA is a joke. There's no way that should go down with the Lakers only asset being one future first rounder

[RC_Drunkford]

You rarely know a guy is a franchise piece the first year. Usually takes a couple years to develop. Awkward timing when it comes to the other rookie contracts of Keldon and Vassell.

yea really awkward since our cap is so tied up. We don't have no cap space :lol

[BatManu20]

Of course BKN is gonna bail out the lakers.

[Dejounte]

Of course BKN is gonna bail out the lakers.

is it really bailing out the Lakers? Irving has destroyed 3 teams in a row. I want this guy to go to the Lakers and stir up more drama there.

[RC_Drunkford]

is it really bailing out the Lakers? Irving has destroyed 3 teams in a row. I want this guy to go to the Lakers and stir up more drama there.

everybody knows it's way more fun to see the Lakers with Westbrook instead of Kyrie. Kyrie will make them a lot better, it's just that the rest of their team is still complete garbage and it won't be enough for a title, but I don't want to see the Lakers in the playoffs

[KingKev]

Man, Jock bouncing around from Australia to San Antonio to Atlanta to Phoenix...

Obviously not a world-beater as far as talent is concerned, but probably not how he envisioned his road in the NBA to begin.

He played college ball in the states and was part of the summer league for ATL in 2018.

[CGD]

Of course BKN is gonna bail out the lakers.

I think it would be a gangster move if Brooklyn said give me frps 27, 28 swap, and 29 all unprotected. Otherwise I will just waive this asshole, and good luck picking him off waivers.

[mystargtr34]

I was going to jump at you after the first line, for proposing the Celtics let go of Jaylen Brown & Marcus Smart... but damn, that lineup looks nasty. They'd lose two key defensive cogs, but their offense would skyrocket. I don't usually love "all in" moves, but this one makes sense. Also, it gives the Nets 2 valuable, young players in their prime to build around.

Yeah I like it for both teams. Nets would be good next year. Imagine Smart, Brown and Simmons (:lol if he plays) on the perimeter on defense. Plug in Joe Harris for shooting and Claxton as a rim runner/vertical spacer for Simmons and that’s a team that could make it as a play in team in the East.

[mystargtr34]

I think it would be a gangster move if Brooklyn said give me frps 27, 28 swap, and 29 all unprotected. Otherwise I will just waive this asshole, and good luck picking him off waivers.

Exactly. Brooklyn should know the Lakers are desperate to rid themselves of Westbrook. Brooklyn holds all the leverage, they can just say we’ll let Kyrie rot on the bench here for the season if you don’t give us 2 unprotected future FRPs in the exchange.

[Dex]

He played college ball in the states and was part of the summer league for ATL in 2018.

That just means a lot more moves and travel for a guy who (I assume) still makes his home on the other side of the world.

Again, it's weird the Spurs would bring him in just to flip him, and then see him get flipped again. Hopefully he lands on his feet...but like I said, not an ideal for anyone's NBA career to start.

[tonight...you]

That just means a lot more moves and travel for a guy who (I assume) still makes his home on the other side of the world.

Again, it's weird the Spurs would bring him in just to flip him, and then see him get flipped again. Hopefully he lands on his feet...but like I said, not an ideal for anyone's NBA career to start.
Every moment is an opportunity.
It's up to you to make something of it.
If you can.

[KingKev]

That just means a lot more moves and travel for a guy who (I assume) still makes his home on the other side of the world.

Again, it's weird the Spurs would bring him in just to flip him, and then see him get flipped again. Hopefully he lands on his feet...but like I said, not an ideal for anyone's NBA career to start.

I think he is happy fir the opportunity to play in the NBA and make 3milly in 2yrs.

[Ariel]

you probably didn't see the Keldon interview where he almost had tears in eyes
When he's offered an 80 million extension and has a career year the only tears will be of joy.

[trypldubl]

And I wish you disphits would understand this is actually what is happening. Get your dumb head out of your dumb ass.

This coming from someone that was upset about people in this board calling others derogatory names. So, if someone has a different opinion, you resort to throwing insults then that's okay? Good to know.

And unless you can say that you heard first hand that these guys are going be sour then you dont know. At the end of the day these guys want to get paid, play the game and most will probably be over it once the season starts.

[Chinook]

you probably didn't see the Keldon interview where he almost had tears in eyes

I haven't seen this interview either. Do you have a link to it? I read the article that references the interview, and I didn't see anything particularly disheartening. One of the dude's friends got traded, and one of them signed elsewhere. That's just a part of life. Whenever I see a group of young Spurs coming up, I can't help but think of George Hill saying that he, DeJuan Balir and Malik Hairston used to sit around and talk about rising through the ranks and taking over for the Big Three in a few years. It's ridiculous to think of such players dreaming of grandeur when we know how their careers turned out, but hope springs internal, and young players can often get themselves into a position where they forget the NBA is a business and that young players can't stay together forever. If they realizing that has destroyed team morale, then their good feelings were always based on a lie. The Spurs did no one dirty. They're all being paid and in better situations. Johnson may or may not be long for the Spurs. Some of those guys may come back, or the team might bring in new guys he like. I'm sure it does hurt to realize that the money comes with potential stability. But he'll grow up.

I do think if the Spurs lose the way some posters want them to, it will hurt morale. They shouldn't be trying to take for a certain player. They should get value for guys who aren't in their plans and let the chips fall where they may. That could be another play-in run with guys stepping up. If that happens and the Spurs miss out on a high pick, so be it. The Spurs should be willing to accept they aren't going to be good for a while, but they can't allow an anti-winning culture to develop.


this is really happening the NBA is a joke. There's no way that should go down with the Lakers only asset being one future first rounder

LAL has two unprotected picks and multiple swaps to offer.

[RC_Drunkford]

1543291737279549442

[slick'81]

1543291737279549442

:cry
Nobody wants our crap

[RC_Drunkford]

does he look happy?

1542935772180930563

[Chinook]

I have a feeling a lot of GMs were annoyed with the Hawks for paying as much as they did for Murray. I imagine Gobert's deal was so high in large part because Ainge was comparing Minny's offer to Murray's haul. If Murray go what he got, and Gobert got what he got, it's basically impossible for a team that isn't tanking to offer enough value for Durant. If some fans get their wish, and the NBA does "crack down" on the players during the negotiations for the next CBA, we might see the league move away from a trading league toward a signing/drafting league.

[slick'81]

does he look happy?

1542935772180930563


looks depressed af. Gonna be a loong season in the tank

[RC_Drunkford]

I do think if the Spurs lose the way some posters want them to, it will hurt morale. They shouldn't be trying to take for a certain player. They should get value for guys who aren't in their plans and let the chips fall where they may. That could be another play-in run with guys stepping up. If that happens and the Spurs miss out on a high pick, so be it. The Spurs should be willing to accept they aren't going to be good for a while, but they can't allow an anti-winning culture to develop.


that would be the dumbest thing they can do. I understand doing it last year, but this year they should absolutely try their best to be the worst team in the entire league.

[Dejounte]

does he look happy?

1542935772180930563

tbh his reaction towards luka samanic getting cut was way worse


https://youtu.be/0IaX3XPFpaI

[Chinook]

does he look happy?

1542935772180930563

Thanks for posting.

No, he doesn't seem happy. He seems subdued. I'd even say sad. He doesn't look hopeless or checked out though. If your best friend at work moved on to a different job, you might be sad while still wanting to continue working there.

[slick'81]

that would be the dumbest thing they can do. I understand doing it last year, but this year they should absolutely try their best to be the worst team in the entire league.


its beyond retarded to think this team needs to somehow stay on the treadmill. Its ova! They just dumped murray and arent in any way shape or form better. Embrace the shit show

[Leetonidas]

does he look happy?

1542935772180930563

DJ and Lonnie were his friends. Of course he is gonna have some sadness because of that. Yall ST psychologists are looking way too much into a random interview:lol

[RC_Drunkford]

DJ and Lonnie were his friends. Of course he is gonna have some sadness because of that. Yall ST psychologists are looking way too much into a random interview:lol

it's a normal reaction. Doesn't mean he all of a sudden doesn't want to play here or not sign an extension. I never said anything about it. Also all you guys trying to invent stories how Murray asked for a trade shouldn't be talking :lol

[Chinook]

that would be the dumbest thing they can do. I understand doing it last year, but this year they should absolutely try their best to be the worst team in the entire league.

Why? So that all of their players really will be like some are saying Keldon is? Guys will ask out if the team is horrible, and if they're constantly being dealt, then the investment in the Spurs in particular really will go away. What about the Spurs without a winning culture is any different from the Kings or Magic?

If we're hoping for things, it should be that the rumored projections for Primo are correct and he's a franchise player. It makes more sense to hope the Spurs already have their star rather than wanting him to suck and drag the team down so that they have a chance to win a chance to pick a guy who has a chance at being a franchise player. I know I'd rather get some evidence that the Spurs might have picked up a couple of potential All-Stars rather than worrying about if some guy not on the team is going to be there when they pick. Later in the year if a loss or few can get a better lottery slot, I can understand. But if they're back in the race for the play-in again because the guys they picked are playing great, it doesn't make sense to sabotage that. At a certain point, the returns on your investments get so high that you can't keep denying your have good stocks.

[XDT76]

Tbh if Simmons + Westbrook happens, I think that’s enough to keep those Rockets picks from being top 10

It could work, one dosen't wanna shoot and prefer to pass and the other just wanna shoot and just pass to get his stats. Now only to sort out who holds the ball and calls the shot.

[Chinook]

its beyond retarded to think this team needs to somehow stay on the treadmill. Its ova! They just dumped murray and arent in any way shape or form better. Embrace the shit show

That's not the question. If they're terrible, so be it. Make the best pick you can. I don't think anyone's argued that they should avoid that. But if they are "on the treadmill" despite all the trades they've made and all the picks they've secured from those trades, so be it. They aren't going to accidentally win 30-plus games next year. It would be because they end up having more talent that develops more quickly than we all assumed. I think a number of posters here would panic and feel an impulse to want the FO to sabotage that team somehow in order to secure the tank. I'm saying I disagree with that impulse.

[CGD]

I have a feeling a lot of GMs were annoyed with the Hawks for paying as much as they did for Murray. I imagine Gobert's deal was so high in large part because Ainge was comparing Minny's offer to Murray's haul. If Murray go what he got, and Gobert got what he got, it's basically impossible for a team that isn't tanking to offer enough value for Durant. If some fans get their wish, and the NBA does "crack down" on the players during the negotiations for the next CBA, we might see the league move away from a trading league toward a signing/drafting league.

No doubt. I think there was something out yesterday that the Nets feel “emboldened” after those two trades to ask for the moon.

[TD 21]

Exactly. Brooklyn should know the Lakers are desperate to rid themselves of Westbrook. Brooklyn holds all the leverage, they can just say we’ll let Kyrie rot on the bench here for the season if you don’t give us 2 unprotected future FRPs in the exchange.

Nah, the Lakers do. The Nets choices appear to be paying Irving $36M to not play for them or getting the '27 and possibly '29 1sts from a team with no discernible future at the moment (granted, long ways off and they're the premier free agent destination).

[mo7888]

Nah, the Lakers do. The Nets choices appear to be paying Irving $36M to not play for them or getting the '27 and possibly '29 1sts from a team with no discernible future at the moment (granted, long ways off and they're the premier free agent destination).

I have to wonder if the Nets wouldn't prefer a TE to those 2 picks....
WB + 2 unprotected 1sts to SA
TE to Brooklyn
Kyrie + Doug to LA

[TD 21]

I have to wonder if the Nets wouldn't prefer a TE to those 2 picks....
WB + 2 unprotected 1sts to SA
TE to Brooklyn
Kyrie + Doug to LA

I don't think so because they're already out so many 1sts to the Rockets from the Harden trade and if the Lakers don't want Harris, I can't see them wanting McDermott.

[RC_Drunkford]

Why? So that all of their players really will be like some are saying Keldon is? Guys will ask out if the team is horrible, and if they're constantly being dealt, then the investment in the Spurs in particular really will go away. What about the Spurs without a winning culture is any different from the Kings or Magic?

If we're hoping for things, it should be that the rumored projections for Primo are correct and he's a franchise player. It makes more sense to hope the Spurs already have their star rather than wanting him to suck and drag the team down so that they have a chance to win a chance to pick a guy who has a chance at being a franchise player. I know I'd rather get some evidence that the Spurs might have picked up a couple of potential All-Stars rather than worrying about if some guy not on the team is going to be there when they pick. Later in the year if a loss or few can get a better lottery slot, I can understand. But if they're back in the race for the play-in again because the guys they picked are playing great, it doesn't make sense to sabotage that. At a certain point, the returns on your investments get so high that you can't keep denying your have good stocks.

If Primo is a franchise player then trading Murray made 0 sense. Brian Wright said they want to be back in contention very soon and the best way for them to do it is Wembenyama. If they get the 9th pick again than that's going to do more damage to the young guys on the team than one year of tanking. Because pretty soon Keldon gonna be on the trading block, with Vassell being next. They should try their best to lose every game, sabotage the team if you have to. Because if you get the #1 year pick in this years draft the tank is over. No reason to tank anymore after that.

[mo7888]

I don't think so because they're already out so many 1sts to the Rockets from the Harden trade and if the Lakers don't want Harris, I can't see them wanting McDermott.

I don't think the Lakers have any leverage though... if they don't deal they waste another year of Lebron and are stuck with WB... if the Nets don't deal they're stuck with Kyrie but they don't have the same pressure to look like they're competing for a championship because KD won't be there... Doug could help LA with his shooting too (and doesn't he have a cheaper and shorter contract than Harris and isn't coming off injury?)

I also think Brooklyn might be able to use that TE...and if they still wanted WB the player they can get him cheap after we buy him out.

[exstatic]

I have a feeling a lot of GMs were annoyed with the Hawks for paying as much as they did for Murray. I imagine Gobert's deal was so high in large part because Ainge was comparing Minny's offer to Murray's haul. If Murray go what he got, and Gobert got what he got, it's basically impossible for a team that isn't tanking to offer enough value for Durant. If some fans get their wish, and the NBA does "crack down" on the players during the negotiations for the next CBA, we might see the league move away from a trading league toward a signing/drafting league.

Not as annoyed as they are with Presti for paying 5/$87.5M for Lu Dort.

[Mr. Body]

If Primo is a franchise player then trading Murray made 0 sense. Brian Wright said they want to be back in contention very soon and the best way for them to do it is Wembenyama. If they get the 9th pick again than that's going to do more damage to the young guys on the team than one year of tanking. Because pretty soon Keldon gonna be on the trading block, with Vassell being next. They should try their best to lose every game, sabotage the team if you have to. Because if you get the #1 year pick in this years draft the tank is over. No reason to tank anymore after that.

14% bro.

[RC_Drunkford]

14% bro.

I know. Just pray Adam Silver does us a solid. There's nothing else we can do

[Ariel]

In summary:
TANKING
Chances at Wembanyama: 14%
Chances at Scoot Henderson: 13.4%
Chances at adding significant talent: 100%
NOT TANKING
Chances at us already having a franchise player in Primo: 0%

We're already in the middle of the river. There's no going back. Tank along.

[Mr. Body]

I know. Just pray Adam Silver does us a solid. There's nothing else we can do

Silver would rather shiv us in an alley than help us out, like his Palpatine before him.

So I'll agree with you. The trade of Murray was way premature and basically poured a ton of sugar into the gas tank. Vassell and Keldon will play with one foot out the door. And all for a chance of rolling a 1 on an eight sided die. If we are top-4 losers in the league. Fail and instill a losing culture and no fanbase for a decade.

[slick'81]

In summary:
TANKING
Chances at Wembanyama: 14%
Chances at Scoot Henderson: 13.4%
Chances at adding significant talent: 100%
NOT TANKING
Chances at us already having a franchise player in Primo: 0%

We're already in the middle of the river. There's no going back. Tank along.

exactly! Its now or neva

[cd98]

With Durant locked into a 4 year deal, it will be interesting what he does if Nets can't get the value they want and decide to hold off on a trade. I mean, will Durant show up and play or become toxic? I don't know that his rep can handle pretending to be injured or just sitting out games to take away the Net's leverage. People are so down on him anyway that I don't know what they will say by first, him wanting to leave in the first place, and two, playing games to force his way out.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I don't think the Lakers have any leverage though... if they don't deal they waste another year of Lebron and are stuck with WB... if the Nets don't deal they're stuck with Kyrie but they don't have the same pressure to look like they're competing for a championship because KD won't be there... Doug could help LA with his shooting too (and doesn't he have a cheaper and shorter contract than Harris and isn't coming off injury?)

I also think Brooklyn might be able to use that TE...and if they still wanted WB the player they can get him cheap after we buy him out.

Lakers better hope Durant doesn’t end up in New Orleans. That deal would likely include Lakers picks. Nets would not want to do anything to improve Shittime.

[bluebellmaniac]

Silver would rather shiv us in an alley than help us out, like his Palpatine before him.

So I'll agree with you. The trade of Murray was way premature and basically poured a ton of sugar into the gas tank. Vassell and Keldon will play with one foot out the door. And all for a chance of rolling a 1 on an eight sided die. If we are top-4 losers in the league. Fail and instill a losing culture and no fanbase for a decade.

STFU and.get in the car, dude. We got shit to do.

[Mr. Body]

STFU and.get in the car, dude. We got shit to do.

Oh yeah? What you got to do? Lose a lot, and see players disappear? What exactly do you think is going on here? This rainbows pouring out of your butt stuff is embarrassing.

[bluebellmaniac]

Oh yeah? What you got to do? Lose a lot, and see players disappear? What exactly do you think is going on here? This rainbows pouring out of your butt stuff is embarrassing.

Lol!

[Rito3d30]

Last season was not pretty either, I don't see them jumping the ship, can only see more fans joining tank squad for the coming season.
Getting a top tier talent no matter who is gonna change the whole scenario for a team that's good at drafting talents.

[Payote75]

14% bro.

Thats what I've been trying to say over and over its a thin line and if they don't get it right quickly you end up in rebuilding purgatory especially when you can't draw big free agents or then hold on to your own. That's why I understand the DJ trade but he basically said he would stay if not for a complete rebuild see with DJ you sign Aston then build around them. You have to have some type of small core but to start from scratch its high risk high reward.because as you said which is spot on if things don't go our way then Keldon comes up and oops we need to trade him for same reasons as DJ because we really haven't progressed much oh then Vassell and primo so it becomes the minor league affiliate for the rest of the league to pick at. That's what has me nervous. Also continuous adding of young players then they split time one is better one month than the other then vice versa just hinders development. To me they have this season and next draft to be successful or that purgatory becomes that much closer.

[Chinook]

If Primo is a franchise player then trading Murray made 0 sense.

...

If they get the 9th pick again than that's going to do more damage to the young guys on the team than one year of tanking. Because pretty soon Keldon gonna be on the trading block, with Vassell being next.

It makes perfect sense. to trade Murray even if Primo is going to be a star. In my opinion, calling the Spurs a treadmill team is a bad take that can only be rationally explained by being a person who hasn't watched the team. The Spurs in this scenario would have had basically the same record four years in a row despite collecting god knows how many firsts and young prospects due to the sheer growth of their talent. That's amazing. If that happens, they're in a much better long-term competitive position than they would've been had they kept Murray. It's possible that Primo might not've become a star with Murray on the team in the same way Murray took advantage of DeRozan and then White being traded. But even assuming he did, the Spurs after this trade and the likely Poeltl follow-up are in a way better competitive position than they would've been.

Had the Spurs kept Murray, their second-best player would've been a fringe All-Star getting ready to sign a max contract, and rather than having the ninth-overall pick, they'd be a lower-seed playoff team and pick around 20. Not only is that pick worse, but the rest of their future firsts are jeopardized by the assumption that the Primo/Murray duo would convey picks in the 20s for years to come. The way some fans see the Hawks picks the Spurs got, some of the oppose FOs would look at the Spurs' pick. So when it came time to make the trades they'd need to to ignite their core, they'd have much less buying power. Even to get a finishing piece, they'd run to risk at giving up what Minny did. Dicey to say the least.

Compare that to the scenario where Primo stars. First, Johnson and Vassell wouldn't be traded off. The Spurs are hoping to draft a franchise player, which is apparently what some in the FO Primo has the potential to be. That's multiple tiers above where they were said to have placed Murray. They dealt DeJounte because they didn't think he was a franchise player, If they did, they would have kept him and not entertained tanking. If Primo shows himself to be such a franchise player next year that he drags the roster to respectability, PATFO is going to view complimentary pieces like Vassell and Johnson as more important than they seem them now. It's possible they could get traded, but it would be in service of a win-now move for a second star. It would be for draft picks. They'd have their franchise player already. They'd have what you think they must tank for Wembenyama to get. I'm sure even in this scenario, they'd love to be able to draft him. But I'm confident they'd view Primo living up to their wildest dreams as the move important and validating aspect. They'd have a decent pick and literally others 10 first-rounders to play with. Having a franchise player in the hand is worth that much. Even if you miss out on the Lebron, you can still win a title with Wade.


Because if you get the #1 year pick in this years draft the tank is over. No reason to tank anymore after that.

You don't become as bad as you want them to and then just stop. You're talking about trading away anyone who looks good and rigging everyone's development if they show a sign of being "too good". You don't go from that to winning immediately. Even if the guy is a phenom like Yao or Garnett and makes a horrible team into a respectable playoff team, it's still due mostly to that player's sheer force of will trying to buoy a terrible roster only in the modern day of player empowerment and with guys not feeling pressured to risk their bodies for situations they don't want to be in.

Also, it's not like if they don't get the first-overall pick they'll all of the sudden get back the year of wasted development they pissed away for a literal dice roll.

[John B]

Did they trade DJ because he would just leave eventually? Or because they’ve really seen something special on Primo that it’s best to remove DJ to make way for Primo? If it’s the latter, and I’m so confident with how they marked Kawhi, that’s freaking exciting, knowing that they see this kid as a future superstar. And they’re not just saying it. I totally trust the Spurs in developing players. To let go of a fringe star because there is one that’s better! Damn I’m so stoked for Primo!

[tbdog]

Did they trade DJ because he would just leave eventually? Or because they’ve really seen something special on Primo that it’s best to remove DJ to make way for Primo? If it’s the latter, and I’m so confident with how they marked Kawhi, that’s freaking exciting, knowing that they see this kid as a future superstar. And they’re not just saying it. I totally trust the Spurs in developing players. To let go of a fringe star because there is one that’s better! Damn I’m so stoked for Primo!
Like timvp said. Spurs probably still let go of Murray at that asking price. There was obviously some motivation tion to move on. One of them is that the Spurs couldn't extend him at his value. They would require for him to become a free agent. In which obviously you risk losing him. That potentially 8 years and no playoff series win. Not a good way to keep him and at a discount on top of that.

[John B]

Like timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) said. Spurs probably still let go of Murray at that asking price. There was obviously some motivation tion to move on. One of them is that the Spurs couldn't extend him at his value. They would require for him to become a free agent. In which obviously you risk losing him. That potentially 8 years and no playoff series win. Not a good way to keep him and at a discount on top of that.

So you think it’s the former? Which I respectfully get it and I know that played a big role. Just to me it’s more of Primo eclipsing DJ eventually and DJ is on the way. Like sending White out for Vassell. Vassell will be better than White at 2.

[RC_Drunkford]

It makes perfect sense. to trade Murray even if Primo is going to be a star. In my opinion, calling the Spurs a treadmill team is a bad take that can only be rationally explained by being a person who hasn't watched the team. The Spurs in this scenario would have had basically the same record four years in a row despite collecting god knows how many firsts and young prospects due to the sheer growth of their talent. That's amazing. If that happens, they're in a much better long-term competitive position than they would've been had they kept Murray. It's possible that Primo might not've become a star with Murray on the team in the same way Murray took advantage of DeRozan and then White being traded. But even assuming he did, the Spurs after this trade and the likely Poeltl follow-up are in a way better competitive position than they would've been.

Had the Spurs kept Murray, their second-best player would've been a fringe All-Star getting ready to sign a max contract, and rather than having the ninth-overall pick, they'd be a lower-seed playoff team and pick around 20. Not only is that pick worse, but the rest of their future firsts are jeopardized by the assumption that the Primo/Murray duo would convey picks in the 20s for years to come. The way some fans see the Hawks picks the Spurs got, some of the oppose FOs would look at the Spurs' pick. So when it came time to make the trades they'd need to to ignite their core, they'd have much less buying power. Even to get a finishing piece, they'd run to risk at giving up what Minny did. Dicey to say the least.

Compare that to the scenario where Primo stars. First, Johnson and Vassell wouldn't be traded off. The Spurs are hoping to draft a franchise player, which is apparently what some in the FO Primo has the potential to be. That's multiple tiers above where they were said to have placed Murray. They dealt DeJounte because they didn't think he was a franchise player, If they did, they would have kept him and not entertained tanking. If Primo shows himself to be such a franchise player next year that he drags the roster to respectability, PATFO is going to view complimentary pieces like Vassell and Johnson as more important than they seem them now. It's possible they could get traded, but it would be in service of a win-now move for a second star. It would be for draft picks. They'd have their franchise player already. They'd have what you think they must tank for Wembenyama to get. I'm sure even in this scenario, they'd love to be able to draft him. But I'm confident they'd view Primo living up to their wildest dreams as the move important and validating aspect. They'd have a decent pick and literally others 10 first-rounders to play with. Having a franchise player in the hand is worth that much. Even if you miss out on the Lebron, you can still win a title with Wade.



You don't become as bad as you want them to and then just stop. You're talking about trading away anyone who looks good and rigging everyone's development if they show a sign of being "too good". You don't go from that to winning immediately. Even if the guy is a phenom like Yao or Garnett and makes a horrible team into a respectable playoff team, it's still due mostly to that player's sheer force of will trying to buoy a terrible roster only in the modern day of player empowerment and with guys not feeling pressured to risk their bodies for situations they don't want to be in.

Also, it's not like if they don't get the first-overall pick they'll all of the sudden get back the year of wasted development they pissed away for a literal dice roll.

I never said they should trade away every player who looks good. Get your facts straight. Just trade away Poeltl and J-Rich and they'll lose a lot. Also there's no year of lost development if you just gut the team and Pop coaches them to play the right way. That's a stupid statement. They not pissing away anything. If they get a Wembenyama he will need about 3 more years, but at least the Spurs would know what they have and can get focused on climbing up the standings year by year.

Yeah it's nice to have those assets, but you don't have a clue where these picks will land or if Primo is a franchise player, so pump the breaks. If Primo is anything like Luka Doncic pairing him with an All-Star guard would make sense. Now pushing back the timeline to get assets makes sense too, but they won't be anything close to the 9th seed this season and I assume to see more trades at the deadline if we don't make them now.

[tbdog]

So you think it’s the former? Which I respectfully get it and I know that played a big role. Just to me it’s more of Primo eclipsing DJ eventually and DJ is on the way. Like sending White out for Vassell. Vassell will be better than White at 2.

I think it could be a combination of things. But I believe money was a bigger reason. I also think Murray isn't in the same timeline as the youngsters. If they were 2 years ahead, we would be winning. Rookie extensions would be signed. Maxing Murray would hurt less. Things like that. I don't think it's all about primo. And I'm not sure he can play the point full time. The few times he did, the offense went to shit. And he didn't play point in the play in. Also it's unlike spurs development to force a rook into something they not ready. They don't even call plays for them. Leonard didn't get plays call for him until 2015. In 2014, the finals mvp barely got his number called. He was just asked score within the system.

[John B]

I think it could be a combination of things. But I believe money was a bigger reason. I also think Murray isn't in the same timeline as the youngsters. If they were 2 years ahead, we would be winning. Rookie extensions would be signed. Maxing Murray would hurt less. Things like that. I don't think it's all about primo. And I'm not sure he can play the point full time. The few times he did, the offense went to shit. And he didn't play point in the play in. Also it's unlike spurs development to force a rook into something they not ready. They don't even call plays for them. Leonard didn't get plays call for him until 2015. In 2014, the finals mvp barely got his number called. He was just asked score within the system.

I get that. To me it’s letting Primo clean those acts. Normally if you’re winning, like with the Big 3, you don’t give the Rookie the rock. But they’re not. Allowing Kobe to hit those 3’s was because Jackson (boy I hate Phil but I had to use that scenario). Pop sees Primo with great vision on the court, advanced for his age. Pop is making Primo despite the mistakes, and specially from the mistakes to learn from. Spurs were not winning games, but competing until finally they win more games. Primo was turning them over, but the court vision was there, just a matter of making better executions.

[John B]

I think it could be a combination of things. But I believe money was a bigger reason. I also think Murray isn't in the same timeline as the youngsters. If they were 2 years ahead, we would be winning. Rookie extensions would be signed. Maxing Murray would hurt less. Things like that. I don't think it's all about primo. And I'm not sure he can play the point full time. The few times he did, the offense went to shit. And he didn't play point in the play in. Also it's unlike spurs development to force a rook into something they not ready. They don't even call plays for them. Leonard didn't get plays call for him until 2015. In 2014, the finals mvp barely got his number called. He was just asked score within the system.

I get that. To me it’s letting Primo clean those acts. Normally if you’re winning, like with the Big 3, you don’t give the Rookie the rock. But they’re not. Allowing Kobe to hit those 3’s was because Jackson believed Kobe had it in him (boy I hate Phil but I had to use that scenario). Pop sees Primo with great vision on the court, advanced for his age. Pop is making Primo despite the mistakes, and specially from the mistakes to learn from. Spurs were not winning games, but competing until finally they win more games. Primo was turning them over, but the court vision was there, just a matter of making better executions.

[Chinook]

I never said they should trade away every player who looks good. Get your facts straight. Just trade away Poeltl and J-Rich and they'll lose a lot. Also there's no year of lost development if you just gut the team and Pop coaches them to play the right way. That's a stupid statement. They not pissing away anything. If they get a Wembenyama he will need about 3 more years, but at least the Spurs would know what they have and can get focused on climbing up the standings year by year.

Yeah it's nice to have those assets, but you don't have a clue where these picks will land or if Primo is a franchise player, so pump the breaks. If Primo is anything like Luka Doncic pairing him with an All-Star guard would make sense. Now pushing back the timeline to get assets makes sense too, but they won't be anything close to the 9th seed this season and I assume to see more trades at the deadline if we don't make them now.

You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. We aren't talking about whether the Spurs WILL win 30ish games despite trading Richardson and Poeltl (and Murray) or if Primo WILL be a franchise player.. We are talking about whether a scenario where Primo does show himself to be a franchise player and leads the young core to 30ish wins is a bad thing. I don't think it is, but you do. You said that's one of the worst-case scenarios and that the team would be on a treadmill and lead to guys like Vassell and Johnson getting traded. I think it would be a major sign of progress and much more likely to secure guys like Johnson and Vassell on the team long term. That's where our debate is, not on whether the Spurs should trade away their older players or whether we expect the Spurs to be bad this year. We don't disagree on those things. We disagree on why the Spurs should do that. You want them to do it to be horrible, specifically losing the games is the goal. I want them to do it to get assets and let the young guys grow. If they grow and win 30ish games, that's fine for me. It's not for you.

But yeah, I was just discussing in another thread about how Jones is likely to start the season at PG because Primo may not be ready. I'm not actually counting on him to be a franchise player -- and certainly not as a PG. I would consider him doing that the best-case scenario, especially if the Spurs can find the guy to compliment him during the draft. But I don't think we see where the team actually is right now differently.

[Dejounte]

Agreed.

Youth development + increasing trade value + allowing the chips to fall where they may fall > purposely aiming for a losing culture to surround a franchise player (who we may or may not get) with a loser environment and low trade value players

[mo7888]

I get that we want go have the best possible chance to get Wembanyama (yes 14% before Body shows up to restate it) but on the off chance that Primo blows up and KJ and Vassell improve to the point that it replaces all of the wins we just gave up by moving DJ and hopefully Jak we should celebrate that because of all of the future draft capital we would have acquired. We also should really rest those guys the last 1/3 rd of the season make sure they are super fresh for the following season...and if it costs us 10 wins or so then so be it.... everything can work out....

[Dverde]

If Suns get KD. Maybe GSW will trade Wiseman for a win now player like Poeltl.

[absoloot66]

I get that we want go have the best possible chance to get Wembanyama (yes 14% before Body shows up to restate it) but on the off chance that Primo blows up and KJ and Vassell improve to the point that it replaces all of the wins we just gave up by moving DJ and hopefully Jak we should celebrate that because of all of the future draft capital we would have acquired. We also should really rest those guys the last 1/3 rd of the season make sure they are super fresh for the following season...and if it costs us 10 wins or so then so be it.... everything can work out....

I see what you did there;)

:bobo

[Dverde]

Wembanyama would be ideal, but as long as The Spurs get a top 4 pick I’d be happy. I trust our front office to identify the best player on the 2nd tier of the draft group. Much more luck involved when picking 9th or 11th.

[KingKev]

I think people are under estimating the loss of Murray on other guys development. I think Keldon takes a step back this year tbh. He made great strides with his offensive game the last 2 seasons but he has no chance at being a primary option which is what he is now. Murray’s absence will be to both he and Jak’s detriment.

[TD 21]

I don't think the Lakers have any leverage though... if they don't deal they waste another year of Lebron and are stuck with WB... if the Nets don't deal they're stuck with Kyrie but they don't have the same pressure to look like they're competing for a championship because KD won't be there... Doug could help LA with his shooting too (and doesn't he have a cheaper and shorter contract than Harris and isn't coming off injury?)

I also think Brooklyn might be able to use that TE...and if they still wanted WB the player they can get him cheap after we buy him out.

They do because it's seemingly either the Nets pay Irving $36M to not play or get 1-2 1sts from the Lakers (Charania is Irving's mouthpiece, so I'm skeptical of the reported Mavericks/76ers interest).

On McDermott, I meant more so contractually. According to Haynes, the Lakers want Curry, who makes significantly less than Harris and McDermott.

If Irving to the Lakers goes through, expect the Nets to buy Westbrook out and I wouldn't be surprised if he's out of the league to start the season.

[bluebellmaniac]

If Suns get KD. Maybe GSW will trade Wiseman for a win now player like Poeltl.

A Wembanyama / Wiseman twin towers team... OMG!

[SAGirl]

that would be the dumbest thing they can do. I understand doing it last year, but this year they should absolutely try their best to be the worst team in the entire league.
I think where some fans get stuck is on the language used.

Hoping they are good enough to be a play in team again, is fan hope. I wont get in the way of anyone cheering for the Spurs to be more or less at the same level and make it, because it would probably mean some of their rookies look amazing, better than expected for age and experience/draft range.

Spurs trading away their best player, and potentially trading Jakob as well its going to result in more losses. Whether people call that intentionally losing, tanking, trying hard but not quite being good enough, etc., the Spurs have made tanky moves vs win now moves, so I know where they are.

[FlAVaK]

No news here.

But it is too good to be missed here at ST:

1543477769991925760

[BatManu20]

No news here.

But it is too good to be missed here at ST:

1543477769991925760

:lol

[BatManu20]

Keldon looks like someone just told him Santa doesn’t exist.

1542935772180930563

[Dverde]

Keldon looks like someone just told him Santa doesn’t exist.

1542935772180930563
“…pretty sure Primo is ready” :lol we are losing a lot of games.

[John B]

Keldon looks like someone just told him Santa doesn’t exist.

1542935772180930563

I’ve said his demeanor on that highlight film looked more serious than he’s usual jolly self. He’s bummed it’s going to be a losing season. But it’s just a matter of buying in and trusting that Spurs FO is doing it’s best to get back in contention, slowly but surely. The important thing is getting the most opportunities to learn earning more minutes and responsibilities, now as a oldest tenured Spurs… at 22 :lol

”I’m pretty sure Primo is ready” :ihit

[Thomas82]

A Wembanyama / Wiseman twin towers team... OMG!

I'm all for it!!

[Russ]

Wembanyama would be ideal, but as long as The Spurs get a top 4 pick I’d be happy.

How Chet Holmgren does will probably have a lot to do with Wembanyama's draft stock (they look like twins).

[exstatic]

How Chet Holmgren does will probably have a lot to do with Wembanyama's draft stock (they look like twins).

There is no question of his position. He’s as sure of a #1 as Duncan or LeBron. He’s not Holmgren.

[Ariel]

There is no question of his position. He’s as sure of a #1 as Duncan or LeBron. He’s not Holmgren.
Also his frame is much larger, he should be able to fill up much better once he gets to the NBA, also he projects to be much more dominant on offense that Chet is... I don't see anyone second guessing Wembanyama like they (rightfully IMO) did Chet.

[Dejounte]

2021-2022 - the Spurs let go their best players

”the Spurs have made tanky moves vs win now moves, so I know where they are.”

oops, I guess that 2021 season didn’t work out as planned.

[Ariel]

(About Victor Wembanyama of France): "I don’t really give too many people credit, but I give credit to this guy right here. I thought I was tall, I thought I had long arms, but he takes it to a whole other level. He moves great. He’s got a shot. He’s got skills too. He’s gonna be a rich man one day. I know he’s gonna keep working. Hopefully I’ll be able to see him in the NBA and continue to play against him for a long time." - USA forward Chet Holmgren

https://i.ibb.co/s94m5gT/a.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/HDhGf8f/b.jpg

https://www.fiba.basketball/es/world/u19/2021/game/1107/Estados-Unidos-Francia#tab=boxscore
Final game USA vs France:
Wembanyama: 22 pts, 8 reb, 9 blocks
Holmgren: 10 pts, 5 reb., 5 asists, 0 blocks

Oh... Wembanyama is almost 2 years younger than Holmgren...

[Ariel]

Wembanyama's wingspan seems like something out of Jurassic Park... he's a f*ng pterodactyl...

[RC_Drunkford]

How Chet Holmgren does will probably have a lot to do with Wembanyama's draft stock (they look like twins).

he destroyed Holmgren while being 1.5 years younger

[BackHome]

How is his lateral movement can he guard outside the paint?

[TD 21]

If Suns get KD. Maybe GSW will trade Wiseman for a win now player like Poeltl.

:lmao Why would they do that when they just won the championship ostensibly without either?

At this point, Wiseman has far more value to them than to the league, so they might as well find out what they have.

Random Poeltl trade that just sprung to mind: Along with Langford for Birch, Flynn, Koloko, '24 lottery protected 1st.

[Russ]

There is no question of his position. He’s as sure of a #1 as Duncan or LeBron. He’s not Holmgren.

You're probably right. But don't forget Holmgren was consensus No. 1 this time last year.

[R. DeMurre]

So many of Wembanyama's blocks are on three point attempts and interior moves where the attacker looks to have him beat but doesn't account for his quick recovery and crazy reach... it's pretty incredible. So many quick guards who shake him away from the basket still get run down from behind. His timing and length mean you can't just get away with the traditional definition of taking a big off the dribble in space-- even on plays where the initial reaction is "whoa, he got crossed bad" he stills has the ability to get back into the play and block or alter a shot. He probably has had more three point attempt blocks in the last two years than most solid defenders have had in a decade.

[exstatic]

You're probably right. But don't forget Holmgren was consensus No. 1 this time last year.

I think it was more a case of one of the three had to be ranked #1. I saw some mocks with either of the PFs ranked #1, but I doubt you see any where Wembanyana isn’t ranked #1. He’s in that Duncan LeBron stratosphere of just a few in a lifetime kind of guys.

[KingKev]

Keldon looks like someone just told him Santa doesn’t exist.

1542935772180930563

Okay you win Spurstalk today

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1344706975981047812/ncCvgyTX_normal.jpg
Michael Scotto MikeAScotto
(https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto)28m (https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto/status/1543719581822377986)
Sources: The Oklahoma City Thunder will waive Isaiah Roby, @hoopshype (https://twitter.com/hoopshype/) has learned.



https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1436503855861276680/8qzEXb9B_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)Shams Charania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)@ShamsCharania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)




Free agent guard Goran Dragic has agreed to a deal with the Chicago Bulls, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).

2:15pm · 3 Jul 2022 (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1543674794658463745) · Twitter for iPhone (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[Degoat]

Isaiah Roby was somebody I liked a few years ago but he’s been given several opportunities on OKC and he hasn’t done anything with it

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1344706975981047812/ncCvgyTX_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto)Michael Scotto (https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto)@MikeAScotto (https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto)




Sources: The Brooklyn Nets have rescinded the qualifying offer on forward Kessler Edwards, @hoopshype (https://twitter.com/hoopshype/) has learned. Edwards now becomes an unrestricted free agent. The Nets retain his Non-Bird Rights and can still re-sign him.

11:04am · 2 Jul 2022 (https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto/status/1543264288705478657) · Twitter for iPhone (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[Mr. Body]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1344706975981047812/ncCvgyTX_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto)Michael Scotto (https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto)@MikeAScotto (https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto)




Sources: The Brooklyn Nets have rescinded the qualifying offer on forward Kessler Edwards, @hoopshype (https://twitter.com/hoopshype/) has learned. Edwards now becomes an unrestricted free agent. The Nets retain his Non-Bird Rights and can still re-sign him.

11:04am · 2 Jul 2022 (https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto/status/1543264288705478657) · Twitter for iPhone (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

Kessler showed fairly interesting things last year. I feel like the Nets are trying to keep him though.

[mystargtr34]

Every time I watched Kessler Edwards I thought there was a lot there to work with. Size, length, good feet, nice looking 3 point shot.

Would be a good 3-D development prospect if the Spurs could grab him in. Also feel the Nets will re-sign him though.

[TD 21]

Isaiah Roby was somebody I liked a few years ago but he’s been given several opportunities on OKC and he hasn’t done anything with it

He was solid last season, just caught in a numbers game.

I'd be surprised if he doesn't get a guaranteed contract somewhere.

[Philthemage]

He was solid last season, just caught in a numbers game.

I'd be surprised if he doesn't get a guaranteed contract somewhere.

Watching him play I thought he could be like a PJ Tucker ki da player. Would fit in well with most teams.

[Eaglenole2002]

The Spurs should absolutely claim Roby. He’s a legit backend rotation PF and small ball C. Shot the 3 well last year.

[spurraider21]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1344706975981047812/ncCvgyTX_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto)Michael Scotto (https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto)@MikeAScotto (https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto)




Sources: The Brooklyn Nets have rescinded the qualifying offer on forward Kessler Edwards, @hoopshype (https://twitter.com/hoopshype/) has learned. Edwards now becomes an unrestricted free agent. The Nets retain his Non-Bird Rights and can still re-sign him.

11:04am · 2 Jul 2022 (https://twitter.com/MikeAScotto/status/1543264288705478657) · Twitter for iPhone (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)
https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_crop,w_1924,h_1282,x_0,y_0/c_fill,w_720,ar_3:2,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/images/voltaxMediaLibrary/mmsport/thebiglead_en_international_web/01g6x7h1ej2de5wm4jnn.png

[MannyIsGod]

Spurs should definitely claim Roby. Really no downside to it.

[Mr. Body]

Windhurst looks like Jabba the Hutt.

[rastaspur]

Claim roby.

[CGD]

Windhurst looks like Jabba the Hutt.

He loves the smell of his own farts

[heyheymymy]

https://preview.redd.it/kctkeqsk4g991.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&767dc5b3

[Ariel]

He loves the smell of his own farts
Why the Windhorst hate? There's much, much worse out there.

[tonight...you]

https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_crop,w_1924,h_1282,x_0,y_0/c_fill,w_720,ar_3:2,f_auto,q_auto,g_auto/images/voltaxMediaLibrary/mmsport/thebiglead_en_international_web/01g6x7h1ej2de5wm4jnn.png
He's bringing grabbing the second chin sexy back.
Y'all playas don't know how to act.

[Mr. Body]

Apparently the Vegas odds for Toronto picking up Kevin Durant are shooting up. I'm just futzing around:

Toronto Raptors:
Kevin Durant
Jakob Poeltl

San Antonio Spurs:
O.G. Anunoby
M Flynn (or other Raptors toss-in)

Brooklyn Nets:
G. Trent
J. Richardson
Khem Birch
(A haul of draft picks)

The outgoing Spurs player can be adjusted. I think Brooklyn/Toronto can get this done by themselves, but Toronto may still want a good Center and may not want to go too rich on the draft picks. The Spurs could throw draft picks to the Nets comensurate to what Anunoby-minus-Poeltl would be. I do think all three franchises have a good relationship.

Just futzing around.

[Mr. Body]

Guess Brooklyn says no, but I don't know what young players they can get for Durant. The Warriors are in the market now (go figure) and they could cough up Kuminga and other young guys. A trade between TOR and BRK alone could include Anunoby but I don't see him as that attractive on his own. We know that BRK isn't too hot on Ayton and I don't see how PHX gets Durant otherwise.

[BacktoBasics]

There is no world where Toronto takes JRich over OG.

[Degoat]

That’s what’s gonna be interesting if the spurs are involved in any of these deals with the nets. Like yes the spurs would be needed in certain scenarios with their cap space but I imagine the nets aren’t concerned with money as much as they are with gathering as many assets as possible.

[Ariel]

Apparently the Vegas odds for Toronto picking up Kevin Durant are shooting up. I'm just futzing around:

Toronto Raptors:
Kevin Durant
Jakob Poeltl

San Antonio Spurs:
O.G. Anunoby
M Flynn (or other Raptors toss-in)

Brooklyn Nets:
G. Trent
J. Richardson
Khem Birch
(A haul of draft picks)

The outgoing Spurs player can be adjusted. I think Brooklyn/Toronto can get this done by themselves, but Toronto may still want a good Center and may not want to go too rich on the draft picks. The Spurs could throw draft picks to the Nets comensurate to what Anunoby-minus-Poeltl would be. I do think all three franchises have a good relationship.

Just futzing around.
Brooklyn would rather take OG Anunoby. If we're to get in the trade, we're going to have to take back some awful contract, it's not easy to drop by, take a good player and run... although it's happened before (how Cleveland got in the Harden trade and stole Jarret Allen for a 1st rounder is beyond me).

[scott]

Man, it's gonna be tough to look back on the year we had an epic amount of cap space and only managed to give raises to the roster in order to make the salary floor.

[Mr. Body]

Brooklyn can just take Anunoby, Gary Trent and filler and then a bunch of draft picks. Toronto seems to have all theirs going forward.

If things shape that way, then Westbrook for Kyrie in some fashion including one or two draft picks.

Not sure how the Spurs get involved in any of this.

[Degoat]

98% sure it won’t happen but you never know. Maybe the spurs do make an offer to Ayton or Sexton and they’re just waiting until after the moratorium because if they were to offer it now then their salary would be tied up and the spurs wouldn’t have the flexibility in the scenario some sort of trade does come up

[tbdog]

Spurs could fuck up sun's by just offering ayton max. Takes them out of sign and trades

[scott]

Yeah but would Ayton even sign an offer sheet? Maybe we aren't signing anyone so far because no one wants to sign here. The AUSTIN Spurs on the other hand......

[exstatic]

Man, it's gonna be tough to look back on the year we had an epic amount of cap space and only managed to give raises to the roster in order to make the salary floor.

We’re not even out of the moratorium period. Perhaps wait a few days past 6 July until you throw the rope over the shower rod?

[John B]

98% sure it won’t happen but you never know. Maybe the spurs do make an offer to Ayton or Sexton and they’re just waiting until after the moratorium because if they were to offer it now then their salary would be tied up and the spurs wouldn’t have the flexibility in the scenario some sort of trade does come up

This. Except change Ayton to Jalen Smith and bad contract players coming with picks.

[Ariel]

Brooklyn can just take Anunoby, Gary Trent and filler and then a bunch of draft picks. Toronto seems to have all theirs going forward.

If things shape that way, then Westbrook for Kyrie in some fashion including one or two draft picks.

Not sure how the Spurs get involved in any of this.
Well... the only way that comes to mind is, if Toronto lands Durant and still holds on to some desirable assets, they that may increase their interest in Poeltl, since the clock starts ticking immediately and they can't wait for Koloko to develop and surely won't have enough to aim higher (like Myles Turner, who they supposedly prefer but may not be able to accommodate salary wise or in terms of assets)... but they may not have any worthwhile ammo left.

[C-Dub]

Spurs just may sign TJ Warren and Sexton. They have been known to sign good players after they've suffered a major injury to give the player a chance to prove that they still have it. TJ is 28 years of age and probably would accept a 3 year deal with the 3rd year being a player option. Come off the bench as a sixth man for 2 years, proves that he still has it, then sign his last big deal at 30 years old. Spurs may not be tanking with the additions of TJ and Sexton. Depth chart after these 2 signings.

Sexton, Jones, Wesley
Primo, J Rich, Branham
Vassell, TJ, Wiesk
KJ, McD, Sochan
Jakob, Z. Collins, KBD

Sochan replaces McD in the 2nd unit after the trade deadline.

[Ariel]

Why the hell do you people want Sexton? He just raises the floor enough to cost us lottery chances, stands in the way of youth development, will come at a high price, and doesn't move the needle in the future if we put together a contending team. I don't see any scenario where he makes sense for

[Ariel]

The only players that make sense for us right now are those who can help us in the long term, but not in the short term. Like Barlow. Or someone who might raise our floor, but talent wise is really worth it, like OG Anunoby. Plus they prevent us from using the cap space to acquire future assets. Any more we make should be carefully weighted against its cost.

[Ignazzz]

And non existing D as bonus.

[TD 21]

Apparently the Vegas odds for Toronto picking up Kevin Durant are shooting up. I'm just futzing around:

Toronto Raptors:
Kevin Durant
Jakob Poeltl

San Antonio Spurs:
O.G. Anunoby
M Flynn (or other Raptors toss-in)

Brooklyn Nets:
G. Trent
J. Richardson
Khem Birch
(A haul of draft picks)

The outgoing Spurs player can be adjusted. I think Brooklyn/Toronto can get this done by themselves, but Toronto may still want a good Center and may not want to go too rich on the draft picks. The Spurs could throw draft picks to the Nets comensurate to what Anunoby-minus-Poeltl would be. I do think all three franchises have a good relationship.

Just futzing around.

:lmao At the notion of the Nets so much as considering this garbage.

This should come down to the Celtics (I don't think they'll get involved though), Pelicans and Suns, who need to try to get the Jazz or Thunder involved and be creative.

If Mitchell and Simmons can't play together because of base year compensation, try to swap them if possible. If not, try to swap Simmons for Gilgeous-Alexander. Of course, in either case they'd need to attach virtually every pick/swap from here to kingdom come, plus other players.

[TD 21]

^ Meant designated player exception, not base year compensation.

[spurraider21]

This. Except change Ayton to Jalen Smith and bad contract players coming with picks.
Jalen Smith is gone

[Degoat]

Why the hell do you people want Sexton? He just raises the floor enough to cost us lottery chances, stands in the way of youth development, will come at a high price, and doesn't move the needle in the future if we put together a contending team. I don't see any scenario where he makes sense for

Dont necessarily want him lol just speculating. I’d be shocked if the Spurs go into the season with only Tre Jones as a PG, don’t see Primo really being played as the PG imo

[tbdog]

Spurs just may sign TJ Warren and Sexton. They have been known to sign good players after they've suffered a major injury to give the player a chance to prove that they still have it. TJ is 28 years of age and probably would accept a 3 year deal with the 3rd year being a player option. Come off the bench as a sixth man for 2 years, proves that he still has it, then sign his last big deal at 30 years old. Spurs may not be tanking with the additions of TJ and Sexton. Depth chart after these 2 signings.

Sexton, Jones, Wesley
Primo, J Rich, Branham
Vassell, TJ, Wiesk
KJ, McD, Sochan
Jakob, Z. Collins, KBD

Sochan replaces McD in the 2nd unit after the trade deadline.

Both want a starting role, which don't want to offer. Warren could start though

[Ariel]

Toronto can EASILY put together a great package for Durant... if Sean Marks wants young, proven players whose availability you can count on, then Scottie Barnes, OG Anunoby and Gary Trent I'd consider a very good return for Durant. And either works or is very close to working salary wise. Massai just has to decide whether he's willing to part with Scottie Barnes...
Then you trade with us for Poeltl for picks + garbage, and they can put together a nice lineup: Van Vleet / some veteran / Durant / Siakam / Poeltl. That should immediately put them in the upper echelon in the East, and that lineup's window should be good for about 3 years.

[Ariel]

Dont necessarily want him lol just speculating. I’d be shocked if the Spurs go into the season with only Tre Jones as a PG, don’t see Primo really being played as the PG imo
This just in... WE'RE TANKING, PEOPLE!!! :lol

[venitian navigator]

Why the hell do you people want Sexton? He just raises the floor enough to cost us lottery chances, stands in the way of youth development, will come at a high price, and doesn't move the needle in the future if we put together a contending team. I don't see any scenario where he makes sense for

Agree

[Mr. Body]

Well... the only way that comes to mind is, if Toronto lands Durant and still holds on to some desirable assets, they that may increase their interest in Poeltl, since the clock starts ticking immediately and they can't wait for Koloko to develop and surely won't have enough to aim higher (like Myles Turner, who they supposedly prefer but may not be able to accommodate salary wise or in terms of assets)... but they may not have any worthwhile ammo left.

That's why I was trying to get Poeltl involved with Anunoby going to the Spurs, but it doesn't make sense for Brooklyn. I was trying to throw more picks at the Nets, but giving up so much (Poeltl, picks) for Anunoby doesn't make sense, either.

If Durant is going to Toronto, I don't see the Spurs involved, really.

[Degoat]

This just in... WE'RE TANKING, PEOPLE!!! :lol

Then why is Jakob, Keldon, Dev, Richardson on the team? Those guys will fight for Ws, actually thinking Pop will tank games is :lmao

[Mr. Body]

Agree on Sexton. We're finally almost down to the right number of guards - just need to cut or trade Langford. And Sexton is an awful defender. Not a fit.

[Mr. Body]

This just in... WE'RE TANKING, PEOPLE!!! :lol

We're not tanking.

[jjspur]

Dont necessarily want him lol just speculating. I’d be shocked if the Spurs go into the season with only Tre Jones as a PG, don’t see Primo really being played as the PG imo

They might be looking at a pg from the G-league or a summer league standout.

[Degoat]

They might be looking at a pg from the G-league or a summer league standout.

Yeah I could totally see that, I actually was searching through all the summer league teams today, looking to see if there were any PGs that could be good adds and I didn’t really see any personally. Maybe Ky Bowan who’s on our SL team lol

[Mr. Body]

Maybe the Spurs should have kept Kennedy Chandler. Whoops.

[Degoat]

Maybe the Spurs should have kept Kennedy Chandler. Whoops.

I was thinking the exact same thing! lmao

[Ariel]

Then why is Jakob, Keldon, Dev, Richardson on the team? Those guys will fight for Ws, actually thinking Pop will tank games is :lmao
Poeltl and Josh Richardson's days as Spurs are numbered. Vassell and Keldon Johnson are part of the future core, they are nowhere near enough to keep us from landing in the bottom 3 (as long as we trade Poeltl & Richardson).

[Ariel]

That's why I was trying to get Poeltl involved with Anunoby going to the Spurs, but it doesn't make sense for Brooklyn. I was trying to throw more picks at the Nets, but giving up so much (Poeltl, picks) for Anunoby doesn't make sense, either.

If Durant is going to Toronto, I don't see the Spurs involved, really.
I'm saying that could still happen if Durant goes to Toronto, but not necessarily in the same trade (though it could be). I just think OG would have to be part of the deal to the Nets for them to take it, so we'd have to settle for some pick/s + filler if Toronto wants Poeltl. But I'd be cool with that.

[FutureMan]

Then why is Jakob, Keldon, Dev, Richardson on the team? Those guys will fight for Ws, actually thinking Pop will tank games is :lmao

I don’t think those players have as much strength as you’re giving them. Even with those players giving it their all and Pop working some magic, how many wins do you think they will have?

[Mr. Body]

I'm saying that could still happen if Durant goes to Toronto, but not necessarily in the same trade (though it could be). I just think OG would have to be part of the deal to the Nets for them to take it, so we'd have to settle for some pick/s + filler if Toronto wants Poeltl. But I'd be cool with that.

I'm reverting to my feeling the Spurs aren't going to trade Poeltl at all.

[Degoat]

Poeltl and Josh Richardson's days as Spurs are numbered. Vassell and Keldon Johnson are part of the future core, they are nowhere near enough to keep us from landing in the bottom 3 (as long as we trade Poeltl & Richardson).

Just my opinion, I expect lots of internal growth. I expect KJ and Dev to make a big leap this season, IF the reports are true the spurs expect Primo to make a big leap as well. Idk if it’s given that Jakob gets traded either, Richardson likely.

[Ariel]

I'm reverting to my feeling the Spurs aren't going to trade Poeltl at all.
Hey, for whatever it's worth, I hope it's you who's right and not me. I just don't see it.

[Mr. Body]

Hey, for whatever it's worth, I hope it's you who's right and not me. I just don't see it.

I don't see them going into the season with Zach Collins as the only big -- whose health isn't even assured.

[scott]

We’re not even out of the moratorium period. Perhaps wait a few days past 6 July until you throw the rope over the shower rod?

I’m sure we’ll make a bunch of meaningless signings after July 6 that don’t change the point. Unfortunately for the Spurs, some teams in the running for KD or Kyrie may not need us to facilitate, which is just tough luck more than anything else. There are bad contracts to be dumped, and we all agree that we should be the dumping ground… but there is a non-zero chance that none of those opportunities truly present themselves to us. In which case, we’ll look back on the summer we had $40mil of cap space and couldn’t find a way to use it.

It’s also possible to acknowledge this and post about on a message board with pondering suicide. You might consider chilling the fuck out for once man.

[duncan2150]

Why the hell do you people want Sexton? He just raises the floor enough to cost us lottery chances, stands in the way of youth development, will come at a high price, and doesn't move the needle in the future if we put together a contending team. I don't see any scenario where he makes sense for

Talented young player( only 23), good 3 pt %, will not be expensive imo( cavs took rubio and raul neto) and will not play that much this year coming from an injury. He makes totally sense for me.

[John B]

Jalen Smith is gone

WTF I didn’t even see that. Oh man I don’t think they’re signing anybody after using the capspace to facilitate trades. WTF did BW mean signing for future and NOW?

[Ignazzz]

WTF I didn’t even see that. Oh man I don’t think they’re signing anybody after using the capspace to facilitate trades. WTF did BW mean signing for future and NOW?

Jalen Smith signed a 2 year / $9,573,828 contract with the Indiana Pacers, including $9,573,828 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $4,786,914

[exstatic]

This. Except change Ayton to Jalen Smith and bad contract players coming with picks.

Jalen has reached an agreement with the pacers.

[Ariel]

Talented young player( only 23), good 3 pt %, will not be expensive imo( cavs took rubio and raul neto) and will not play that much this year coming from an injury. He makes totally sense for me.
He's an undersized (6'1") shooting guard who's a defensive liability and will command about 20M per year on a long term contract. Only thing he'll do is help win enough games to miss on better prospects. No thank you.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1436503855861276680/8qzEXb9B_normal.jpg
Shams Charania ShamsCharania
(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)52s (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1543987349486542848)
Free agent center Serge Ibaka has agreed to a one-year deal to return to the Milwaukee Bucks, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).

[SAGirl]

Thought this one was funny
1543924839798521856 (https://twitter.com/tommybeer/status/1543924839798521856?s=21&t=m_kJo_DT9TXoiPWUGMFJNQ)

[KingKev]

^ lol one thing is for certain, like 99.9% of the NBA he does not want to come to San Antonio.

[Ariel]

Thought this one was funny
1543924839798521856 (https://twitter.com/tommybeer/status/1543924839798521856?s=21&t=m_kJo_DT9TXoiPWUGMFJNQ)
There's a rumor the Warriors want him back. I hope he realizes he CAN'T join the Warriors... he could go on to win 4 straight championships and he still will get disrespected and laughed at for it.

[John B]

I can’t help to think that after FA, there would be handful of Superteams forming: LBJ/AD/Kyrie, Russell/Edwards/KAT/Gobert, CP0/Booker/Durant. But somehow it’s not as annoying than Dubs repeating.

[Dverde]

Going back to OKC is the ESPN feel good story. Also could go back home to save his troubled Wizards.

[Ariel]

Going back to OKC is the ESPN feel good story. Also could go back home to save his troubled Wizards.
Going back to OKC is the non obvious, sneaky smart move... if Presti lets go of his infatuation with tanking (he probably j3rks off to Tankathon every morning), there's a chance they could be a contender in 2 years... he'd catch them low enough not to be considered riding, and on the way up, and if he does win with them, he shakes off the Warriors backslash. But I don't think either him or Presti would dare.

[Mr. Body]

Durant wants to coattail with an existing good team. Best if he doesn't have to be anything like the top dog, which he knows he can't be. OKC is off the menu.

[spurs10]

Was reading and NBA report about all the FA signings for each team that will get finalised in coming days. When you get to the Spurs.....crickets. I'm sure they aren't calling it 'tanking' it's more like 'developing the young guys'....while losing as many games as possible. :)

[Mr. Body]

Not spending the ducats on Jalen Smith is baffling, since the team badly needs bigs. There are clearly only two possible reasons: 1) Smith liked Indiana and signed there without regard, or 2) the Spurs are saving money to save on moving trucks to Las Vegas.

[scott]

Not spending the ducats on Jalen Smith is baffling, since the team badly needs bigs. There are clearly only two possible reasons: 1) Smith liked Indiana and signed there without regard, or 2) the Spurs are saving money to save on moving trucks to Las Vegas.

Indeed, especially considering we could have signed him with an exemption and not hurt our cap space. Honestly I’m shocked he ended up back in IND in general, it was widely assumed he’d get a better deal than the max IND could offer

[mo7888]

Indeed, especially considering we could have signed him with an exemption and not hurt our cap space. Honestly I’m shocked he ended up back in IND in general, it was widely assumed he’d get a better deal than the max IND could offer

It was widely assumed here because it was pushed by a couple of posters..it wasn't widely assumed everywhere..

[scott]

Fair point!

[lmbebo]

Not spending the ducats on Jalen Smith is baffling, since the team badly needs bigs. There are clearly only two possible reasons: 1) Smith liked Indiana and signed there without regard, or 2) the Spurs are saving money to save on moving trucks to Las Vegas.


Or keeping max space open for potential deals...

[KingKev]

Not spending the ducats on Jalen Smith is baffling, since the team badly needs bigs. There are clearly only two possible reasons: 1) Smith liked Indiana and signed there without regard, or 2) the Spurs are saving money to save on moving trucks to Las Vegas.

He probably has speeding tickets so isn't a cultural fit.

[duncan2150]

To wich date the Spurs can use their cap space ?

[Ignazzz]

To wich date the Spurs can use their cap space ?
Till clents are asking. TDL?

[duncan2150]

Till clents are asking. TDL?

Yes i think so but they need to be at a something like 90 % of the salary cap before the season starts ?

[lmbebo]

To wich date the Spurs can use their cap space ?


no limit. if not used and they are below the floor, all the current players on the team will get a raise to the floor. i.e. if the salary cap floor is $100 million and we have $80 million in salary, then the all the players on the roster will get a portion of the $20 million balance.

[Spurs Homer]

Why are posters STILL ogling players and moves by the Spurs front office?

we tanking or not?

[exstatic]

To wich date the Spurs can use their cap space ?
I remember Philly, during the dog days of The Process, grabbing a player in the aftermath of the February trade deadline, and subsequent cuts so they could hit minimum payroll. There isn’t really a deadline other than the end of your season.

[exstatic]

Yes i think so but they need to be at a something like 90 % of the salary cap before the season starts ?

Nope. Before it ends.

[Drom John]

1) I don't think a team ever has to reach the minimum salary floor in contracts. At the end of the season, any deficit is paid to players pro rata.
2) A team could add salary throughout the year even after the trade deadline and late, though those are reduced by payments made before acquisition.

[duncan2150]

Ok thanks for those informations, they'll have opportunities during the year so it's safe to don't rush things.

[tonight...you]

Why are posters STILL ogling players and moves by the Spurs front office?

we tanking or not?
Because it is inherent in most of us to whine.
I like the ones that whine like crazy, but try to make it funny.
Good shit.

[FutureMan]

Why are posters STILL ogling players and moves by the Spurs front office?

we tanking or not?


For most it appears to be moves and less about the players.

A 2-4 more picks would help the rebuild go faster.

[Mr. Body]

Why are posters STILL ogling players and moves by the Spurs front office?

we tanking or not?

No, we're not tanking. When will people get this through their thick skulls?

[tonight...you]

No, we're not tanking. When will people get this through their thick skulls?
Let's just see how the rest of the off-season goes, yes?
They dump Poeltl and Richardson for "assets", then they are tanking, no matter how hard Pop coaches.

They don't, then they aren't.

But let's not talk like a know-it-all right now, yes?

[Mr. Body]

Let's just see how the rest of the off-season goes, yes?
They dump Poeltl and Richardson for "assets", then they are tanking, no matter how hard Pop coaches.

They don't, then they aren't.

But let's not talk like a know-it-all right now, yes?

THE TEAM IS NOT TANKING.

[mo7888]

THE TEAM IS NOT TANKING.

Either you think we aren't moving Poeltl or you have your own personal definition of tanking...

[Mr. Body]

Either you think we aren't moving Poeltl or you have your own personal definition of tanking...

Tanking means losing games on purpose. Literal definition. This is not what the team is doing, will do, or ever do unless there's a complete change in conception. Words have meaning.

And, no, I don't think they're moving Poeltl at this point. Like I said, they are not going into the season with only Zach Collins at Center.

[mo7888]

Tanking means losing games on purpose. Literal definition. This is not what the team is doing, will do, or ever do unless there's a complete change in conception. Words have meaning.

And, no, I don't think they're moving Poeltl at this point. Like I said, they are not going into the season with only Zach Collins at Center.

I agree with you that we aren't going to have coaches or players lose games on purpose. I do think we move Jak though and the FO will make sure that we don't have the players necessary to win alot of games. In essence, the FO is going to lose on purpose...call it what you will...

[Mr. Body]

I agree with you that we aren't going to have coaches or players lose games on purpose. I do think we move Jak though and the FO will make sure that we don't have the players necessary to win alot of games. In essence, the FO is going to lose on purpose...call it what you will...

Who's your second center?

[Dejounte]

We’ve seen the FO subtract. People are going to be disappointed if/when they start adding players.

I don’t think the line starts at trading Poeltl— they could very well trade him for a piece that’s a better fit for the team.

Time will tell. It’s very early. I do think they’re up to something and we’re going to see a move by June 6th.

[exstatic]

People say we’re tanking, or we’re not tanking. Neither of those is true.

We’re churning. We draft as many FRPs as we can, develop the shit out of them to try for the superstar. As they prove not to be, we’ll move them on to soft landings if they’ve been with the program. Pop will never hold players out to intentionally lose game. OTOH, we won’t sign anyone who will raise our floor, either. We will be as god or as bad as the players on the roster.

[tonight...you]

THE TEAM IS NOT TANKING.
So if this team jettisons the last of the vets that have talent...
They're trying to win a 'chip?
No.
They're tanking and developing with what they have.

Your know-it-all attitude is silly.

I get that Pop does not tank, but the GM can certainly set the team up to do so.

[tonight...you]

People say we’re tanking, or we’re not tanking. Neither of those is true.

We’re churning. We draft as many FRPs as we can, develop the shit out of them to try for the superstar. As they prove not to be, we’ll move them on to soft landings if they’ve been with the program. Pop will never hold players out to intentionally lose game. OTOH, we won’t sign anyone who will raise our floor, either. We will be as god or as bad as the players on the roster.
I can certainly agree with this, but can also agree to watch what we do with the guys we have and go from there.

[Ariel]

So if this team jettisons the last of the vets that have talent...
They're trying to win a 'chip?
No.
They're tanking and developing with what they have.

Your know-it-all attitude is silly.

I get that Pop does not tank, but the GM can certainly set the team up to do so.
Exactly. We're discussing semantics. No one here that says we're tanking (or wants us to) is calling for Pop to order players NOT to win... that's STUPID. There are teams that also go as far as to pull starters due to fake injuries, mess with rotations, and so on and so forth. That's SHAMELESS tanking. But you can also go trade your veterans for younger assets that need developing, which will cost you in the sort term. Is that tanking? Is it not? Well... let's put it this way: we're taking a loss in the short term, to be able to reap the benefits in the long term. That's what many of us call far. That's the way no one in the league debates, other than many some stubborn Spurs fans, and some spoiled Lakers fans. No one here advocates for a Philly like "process", or an OKC style tank, but for a recognition of the state of things, and acting upon it, which the FO seems to have done at last. Had it happened sooner, we'd be way past that and on route to contending again. Postponing the inevitable just drags the agony.

[mo7888]

Who's your second center?

They'll have to sign someone(maybe 2)...there's plenty of time for that...

[Dverde]

I’d prefer they trade Poeltl now in case he gets hurt or regresses, he has enough value to get something decent now. Josh Richardson is probably not as desirable until the deadline.

[Payote75]

While still early and I understand what the plan at least seems to be it also looks like they aren't really doing anything to prove the team either and I think that's where people get annoyed confused whatever. You may not intentionally lose but are you doing your best to win? Very fine line.

[Dejounte]

Exactly. We're discussing semantics. No one here that says we're tanking (or wants us to) is calling for Pop to order players NOT to win... that's STUPID. There are teams that also go as far as to pull starters due to fake injuries, mess with rotations, and so on and so forth. That's SHAMELESS tanking. But you can also go trade your veterans for younger assets that need developing, which will cost you in the sort term. Is that tanking? Is it not? Well... let's put it this way: we're taking a loss in the short term, to be able to reap the benefits in the long term. That's what many of us call far. That's the way no one in the league debates, other than many some stubborn Spurs fans, and some spoiled Lakers fans. No one here advocates for a Philly like "process", or an OKC style tank, but for a recognition of the state of things, and acting upon it, which the FO seems to have done at last. Had it happened sooner, we'd be way past that and on route to contending again. Postponing the inevitable just drags the agony.

Saying the Spurs have done it “at last” is still premature

the moves of letting go DJ and Lonnie mirror the moves the offseason before that

they nearly matched last year’s win / loss record.

Let’s see what the rest of the moves are before we start claiming we know the direction the team is taking

the mindset could, after all, be the same as last offseason and that is to pave way to develop the next man up

folks are so sure the FO has blown it all up but some argue DeMar is/was a better player than DJ. If that is the case, then why weren’t people screaming the last year that the Spurs were tanking and that they were put in a position by the FO to fail?

The answer to that is the Spurs believed their youth could perform as good or better than the team with DeMar, Mills, Gay.

and my stance (as of now) is that the Spurs believe their youth behind Murray could perform as good or better than when it was led by Murray.

Wright flat out said it: he’s focused on now and the future.

Bottom line is that the Spurs have yet to do anything different from the offseason before this one and there is nothing yet to conclude about what they plan for this upcoming season.

people are afraid to say anything is “TO BE DETERMINED” or unknown. But sometimes, that is the case and it is better than pretending to know.

[The Truth #6]

They are obviously accumulating assets while prioritizing youth with the understanding they will lose games. Call it what you want. They will not ever give it a cool name like The Process or whatever. I suppose "rebuilding" is the closest they will call it. And I can see the distinction that they are trying to simultaneously rebuild the team while not develop a culture of losing. But I have to wonder: isn't that what most tanking teams tell their fans?

[John B]

I just watch Rise in Disney, the story of Greek Freak. Man that 2013 draft was terrible :lol. 6 players before Giannis are probably no konger playing. Who the fuck is Shabazz Muhammad?

[rascal]

Saying the Spurs have done it “at last” is still premature

the moves of letting go DJ and Lonnie mirror the moves the offseason before that

they nearly matched last year’s win / loss record.

Let’s see what the rest of the moves are before we start claiming we know the direction the team is taking

the mindset could, after all, be the same as last offseason and that is to pave way to develop the next man up

folks are so sure the FO has blown it all up but some argue DeMar is/was a better player than DJ. If that is the case, then why weren’t people screaming the last year that the Spurs were tanking and that they were put in a position by the FO to fail?

The answer to that is the Spurs believed their youth could perform as good or better than the team with DeMar, Mills, Gay.

and my stance (as of now) is that the Spurs believe their youth behind Murray could perform as good or better than when it was led by Murray.

Wright flat out said it: he’s focused on now and the future.

Bottom line is that the Spurs have yet to do anything different from the offseason before this one and there is nothing yet to conclude about what they plan for this upcoming season.

people are afraid to say anything is “TO BE DETERMINED” or unknown. But sometimes, that is the case and it is better than pretending to know.

Indications so far this off season do point to the Spurs not desiring to put out a competitive team good enough to not be the worst or one of the worst in the league.

They won't have an all star on the roster. They'll have the youngest team in the league with 19 year olds getting minutes.

Roster construction is indicating they are tanking this season regardless of what Wright is saying.

[emmo]

Who said Pop doesn’t tank? He tanked in ‘96 and get Duncan.

[Mr. Body]

So if this team jettisons the last of the vets that have talent...
They're trying to win a 'chip?
No.
They're tanking and developing with what they have.

Your know-it-all attitude is silly.

I get that Pop does not tank, but the GM can certainly set the team up to do so.

1. Last vets haven't been jettisoned yet.

2. Even if they are, the team is likely not tanking.

3. Tanking means losing on purpose.

4. Like, literally, tanking means losing on purpose.

5. Also, tanking means losing on purpose.

6. I want to tell you think one more time: Tanking means losing on purpose.

Seriously, you smarmy little dipshits need to realize words have meanings. You can't redefine 'tanking' as 'winning mutiple championships' and then say the Duncan era was a tanking era.

And no, there's no disconnect between the front office and Popovich. That's just blatantly stupid.

[tonight...you]

Who said Pop doesn’t tank? He tanked in ‘96 and get Duncan.
At this stage of Pop's career, he has no interest in tanking.
At the beginning, Yes!
Set yourself up for a ton of years of success.

He doesn't have a ton of years any longer.

[tonight...you]

1. Last vets haven't been jettisoned yet.

2. Even if they are, the team is likely not tanking.

3. Tanking means losing on purpose.

4. Like, literally, tanking means losing on purpose.

5. Also, tanking means losing on purpose.

6. I want to tell you think one more time: Tanking means losing on purpose.

Seriously, you smarmy little dipshits need to realize words have meanings. You can't redefine 'tanking' as 'winning mutiple championships' and then say the Duncan era was a tanking era.

And no, there's no disconnect between the front office and Popovich. That's just blatantly stupid.
Do you recognize the word "IF"?
Seriously, you just go off on your little tangent without reading and recognizing.

[Drom John]

I just watch Rise in Disney, the story of Greek Freak. Man that 2013 draft was terrible :lol. 6 players before Giannis are probably no konger playing. Who the fuck is Shabazz Muhammad?

Only #1 Bennett and #14 Muhammed didn't play last year..

[exstatic]

Who said Pop doesn’t tank? He tanked in ‘96 and get Duncan.

Spurs set a then NBA record of 270+ Player games missed. David had his sports hernia from overextending himself playing 3 Olympics in a row. He came back for like 8-9 games, and then broke his foot. Sean missed half a season. Avery missed half a season, but came back, and started leading us to wins. We only had the 6th worst record, but go on about it being a tank. That’s some Laker fan bullshit.

[rascal]

Spurs set a then NBA record of 270+ Player games missed. David had his sports hernia from overextending himself playing 3 Olympics in a row. He came back for like 8-9 games, and then broke his foot. Sean missed half a season. Avery missed half a season, but came back, and started leading us to wins. We only had the 6th worst record, but go on about it being a tank. That’s some Laker fan bullshit.

They tanked the last few weeks of the season.

The season was lost by that time so no point in winning meaningless games by playing Robinson who was cleared to play, with Duncan in next year's draft.

Only Spur homers won't accept that the Spurs tanked down the stretch that year to better their chances at Duncan.

[rascal]

Spurs set a then NBA record of 270+ Player games missed. David had his sports hernia from overextending himself playing 3 Olympics in a row. He came back for like 8-9 games, and then broke his foot. Sean missed half a season. Avery missed half a season, but came back, and started leading us to wins. We only had the 6th worst record, but go on about it being a tank. That’s some Laker fan bullshit.

No, Spurs had the third worst record at 20-62.

[Mr. Body]

Do you recognize the word "IF"?
Seriously, you just go off on your little tangent without reading and recognizing.

We're not tanking. Pop doesn't tank.

Why are you freaking out about not tanking? Is your identity so built up in this 14% chance for a tall skinny French guy? Why are you so hideously, teeth-gnashingly offended to hear that we're not tanking? Maybe you should be a Thunder fan.

[objective]

Who said Pop doesn’t tank? He tanked in ‘96 and get Duncan.

I don't believe the evidence supports this. That team was riddled with legit injuries. If Pop held Robinson out from returning for the last handful of games, it was no different than when he held Duncan out after his injury in year 3. And it's not like Robinson was ever the same player post injury anyways.

Freaking Dominique Wilkins was the leading scorer. Not only did the Spurs not trade him away or cut him so he could go to a contender, they kept playing him when he was healthy as an elderly man. Hell be played 34 minutes in game 82, a 4 point loss. Going into that game Denver's season was already over at 21 wins and like the 4th worst record. Spurs had 20 wins and could have screwed themselves by winning and splitting balls with Denver.

Pop played his guys. Hell, Houston really played their guys, Barkley, Drexler and Olajuwon played 39, 41, and 36 minutes.

[Degoat]

I wasn’t old enough to watch the 96 season lol but didn’t the spurs bring in Dominque Wilkins that year? His prime was over but I bet he brought people to the arena at the very least

[tonight...you]

We're not tanking. Pop doesn't tank.

Why are you freaking out about not tanking? Is your identity so built up in this 14% chance for a tall skinny French guy? Why are you so hideously, teeth-gnashingly offended to hear that we're not tanking? Maybe you should be a Thunder fan.
You don't read.
Forget you.
I already said Pop doesn't tank.
You don't read.

[emmo]

Spurs set a then NBA record of 270+ Player games missed. David had his sports hernia from overextending himself playing 3 Olympics in a row. He came back for like 8-9 games, and then broke his foot. Sean missed half a season. Avery missed half a season, but came back, and started leading us to wins. We only had the 6th worst record, but go on about it being a tank. That’s some Laker fan bullshit.

With David being hurt so much that year they weren’t going anywhere. If you think those extended injuries by other players weren’t milked, then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . I supported that, rooted for them anyway and consequently not for the Lakers that year or any other. And yeah, the balls gave them a better return than expected. This year they won’t have to milk injuries, they’ll be evaluating young talent, team building and more than likely picking in the lottery next year. I’m more excited to watch this year than I have been in years no matter what you call that. Go Spurs Go.

[mystargtr34]

The Spurs must be working on an extension with Poeltl as we speak surely. Maybe he hasn't signed anything because he doesn't like the offer. I think Poeltl on a 3/$45m contract has more value than with his current remaining deal of 1/$9.4m.

[tonight...you]

The Spurs must be working on an extension with Poeltl as we speak surely. Maybe he hasn't signed anything because he doesn't like the offer. I think Poeltl on a 3/$45m contract has more value than with his current remaining deal of 1/$9.4m.
He's going to want closer to 20 per I'm sure.

[Ariel]

Saying the Spurs have done it “at last” is still premature

the moves of letting go DJ and Lonnie mirror the moves the offseason before that

they nearly matched last year’s win / loss record.

Let’s see what the rest of the moves are before we start claiming we know the direction the team is taking

the mindset could, after all, be the same as last offseason and that is to pave way to develop the next man up

folks are so sure the FO has blown it all up but some argue DeMar is/was a better player than DJ. If that is the case, then why weren’t people screaming the last year that the Spurs were tanking and that they were put in a position by the FO to fail?

The answer to that is the Spurs believed their youth could perform as good or better than the team with DeMar, Mills, Gay.

and my stance (as of now) is that the Spurs believe their youth behind Murray could perform as good or better than when it was led by Murray.

Wright flat out said it: he’s focused on now and the future.

Bottom line is that the Spurs have yet to do anything different from the offseason before this one and there is nothing yet to conclude about what they plan for this upcoming season.

people are afraid to say anything is “TO BE DETERMINED” or unknown. But sometimes, that is the case and it is better than pretending to know.
Actually I said "the FO seems to have done at last", so if we're going for rigor, let's start there. But regardless, that wouldn't be any more a leap of faith on my part than anyone claiming to know that the FO is NOT doing some other thing. Which is ok because this is an internet discussion board and not a peer reviewed scientific paper looking to get published. Everybody looks at the same data and draws different conclusions, based on how their perception and beliefs, and the best that you can ask for is something to back it up, instead of an explicit disclaimer that what's being said is merely an opinion.
In this case, when I look at pretty much every move the FO has made going back one year, it's cost us veteran talent and it's gotten us future picks and assets, which we've turned into an unusual number of rookies with some shared traits: extremely young and with perceived potential (even if I do not necessarily agree in all cases). That to me is more in line with a "deep" rebuild (whichever you want to call it), that simply a conviction that whomever leaves has a better alternative waiting to take his place. That's my stance, as much as you have yours, and as you said "sometimes, that is the case (that something is “TO BE DETERMINED”) and it is better than pretending to know". So until those facts arrive, we'll all continue to post our opinions in here.

[mystargtr34]

He's going to want closer to 20 per I'm sure.

That's Jarrett Allen level money. Im sure there's all sorts of negotiation tactics going on like with every contract, but don't think his agent can ask for that with a straight face. I think $17.5m per is the absolute top end he can get, $15m per most likely.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/contracts/center/

Some comparable for Jakob

Capela ($23m)
Allen ($20m)
Turner ($20m)
Nurkic ($17.5m)
Adams ($17.5m)
JV ($15m)
Mitchell Robinson ($15m)
Brooke Lopez ($13m)
Rob Williams ($12m)
Zubac ($11m)

[mystargtr34]

Maybe the 4th year is a sticking point. Would Spurs fans give Jakob 4/$60m? I would be more than happy with 3/$45m, and would probably go with 4/$60m if you twisted my arm, given Jakob is only 27.

[AFBlue]

So, no news then?

[exstatic]

With David being hurt so much that year they weren’t going anywhere. If you think those extended injuries by other players weren’t milked, then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . I supported that, rooted for them anyway and consequently not for the Lakers that year or any other. And yeah, the balls gave them a better return than expected. This year they won’t have to milk injuries, they’ll be evaluating young talent, team building and more than likely picking in the lottery next year. I’m more excited to watch this year than I have been in years no matter what you call that. Go Spurs Go.

Sean’s kidneys were in the process of failing. He had also missed half a season either the year before or after, too. Not a fake or exaggerated injury.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

They milked broken feet and kidney failures on order to tank :lol Jesus the lengths people go to shit on their own team.

[Ice009]

I followed that season from afar as I am not in the US and wasn't able to watch the games until years later when we got better internet, but from what I remember, I don't think the Spurs tanked intentionally.

I remember reading that David Robinson could have maybe come back at the end of the season and the Spurs could have made a push for the 8tth seed and teams didn't really want to face them if they made the playoffs, but I also recall that there was also a question of whether or not the Spurs wanted to risk allowing David to come back in case he hurt himself again. Don't remember Sean's injuries, though, and/or if he could have played more games?

I also recall that team played hard, especially on the defensive end and I respected them for it. I was young, but I remember being OK with the losses due to how hard they competed on the defensive end. IMO, they played their asses off all season and weren't trying to lose games at all. Correct me if I am wrong, but I recall close losses to good teams. Dominique, despite being a lot older, played his butt off. Although I assumed the Spurs signed him as a 3rd or 4th option, I thought he played hard for the Spurs being thrust into the role of a first option. I actually always wondered why they didn't bring him back the following season? Was it his choice to leave, or did they not want him back?

[objective]

I followed that season from afar as I am not in the US and wasn't able to watch the games until years later when we got better internet, but from what I remember, I don't think the Spurs tanked intentionally.

I remember reading that David Robinson could have maybe come back at the end of the season and the Spurs could have made a push for the 8tth seed and teams didn't really want to face them if they made the playoffs, but I also recall that there was also a question of whether or not the Spurs wanted to risk allowing David to come back in case he hurt himself again. Don't remember Sean's injuries, though, and/or if he could have played more games?

I also recall that team played hard, especially on the defensive end and I respected them for it. I was young, but I remember being OK with the losses due to how hard they competed on the defensive end. IMO, they played their asses off all season and weren't trying to lose games at all. Correct me if I am wrong, but I recall close losses to good teams. Dominique, despite being a lot older, played his butt off. Although I assumed the Spurs signed him as a 3rd or 4th option, I thought he played hard for the Spurs being thrust into the role of a first option. I actually always wondered why they didn't bring him back the following season? Was it his choice to leave, or did they not want him back?

Sean had knee surgery. He needed another knee surgery the next year for Duncan's rookie year and missed the last 3 months or so.

People didn't watch that team so nobody remembers anything.

Chuck Person was the sixth man but didn't play all year with the back surgery, which I think traced back to the Spurs plane accident.

Charles Smith was supposed to be the starting pf but his legs were so messed up he was only healthy enough to play a handful of games. He had career ending ankle surgery that summer if I remember right.

[MI21]

Chuck Person was the sixth man but didn't play all year with the back surgery, which I think traced back to the Spurs plane accident.


How do I have no recollection of this? Plane accident!?

[objective]

How do I have no recollection of this? Plane accident!?

Yes, it was the previous season I believe.

Long story short to my memory, 2 or 3 chairs were not actually bolted to the floor, so on the ascent on takeoff Person, Demps, and I *think* one other non-player went flying and were injured.

[scott]

Definitely revisionist to say that Spurs not playing DRob in the last few weeks was "tanking". The Spurs finished 16 games out of the 8th seed, and by the time DRob was cleared, there was no point in risking further injury. Is that tanking? Could they have played their best players coming off injury in order to maybe have the 6th worst record versus the 3rd? Maybe. But even if the lottery odds were flat (like they were when we drafted DRob), that would have still be stupid player management. You don't risk your franchise in meaningless games when there is that kind of injury risk.

They were just incredibly bad without DRob and Sean, as would any team missing its two biggest stars. Frickin' Carl Herrera started like 50+ games for us that year. I think Cadillac Anderson made his return to the Spurs that year as well and started a couple of games (talk about a dude who went in the crapper after he left the Spurs after his first two seasons). Monty Williams was on the team though, and I think it was his best season as a pro. I think 'Nique was pretty much done after this stint with the Spurs. He played overseas the season before and went back overseas after. I think he made a short stint back in the league a few years later but did absolutely nothing.

Of course, all of this can be verified and checked via Google, for anyone so included.

[KingKev]

Yes, it was the previous season I believe.

Long story short to my memory, 2 or 3 chairs were not actually bolted to the floor, so on the ascent on takeoff Person, Demps, and I *think* one other non-player went flying and were injured.

Am electric drill was later found in Pop’s carry-on. CIA Pop getting ahead of the Tim Duncan sweepstakes.

[Ice009]

Sean had knee surgery. He needed another knee surgery the next year for Duncan's rookie year and missed the last 3 months or so.

People didn't watch that team so nobody remembers anything.

Chuck Person was the sixth man but didn't play all year with the back surgery, which I think traced back to the Spurs plane accident.

Charles Smith was supposed to be the starting pf but his legs were so messed up he was only healthy enough to play a handful of games. He had career ending ankle surgery that summer if I remember right.

Thanks for all that great info. Some of it I knew, but just didn't remember. I just didn't have access to watch the team back then otherwise I still would have tried to watch every game (that's how big of a fan I was when I was a kid). Didn't get access to NBA games for another 8 years or so, but yeah, you are probably right in saying that hardly any Spurs fans watched the team that year.

I also completely forgot about the Chuck Person injury. I remember reading about it, but didn't remember the details until you mentioned it just now. I didn't know exactly how it happened. I just remember reading he injured his back on the plane. What a crappy freak injury.

I didn't remember Sean's exact injuries, so thanks for clarifying. I thought it might have been a knee or kidney issues, but was too long ago for me to remember. From what I recall, the kidney issues came later, but not sure if it was something Sean or the team was aware of in the '96 or '97 seasons?


How do I have no recollection of this? Plane accident!?

I actually do remember reading he injured his back on the plane, but didn't know the details. Completely forgot about it until Objective brought it up and explained the details a bit more. Pretty shitty injury. I wonder how much longer Chuck could have played had it not have happened :(. He was very good on the Pacers and was also a solid player for the Spurs up until that injury too. I am guessing that injury derailed his career.


Definitely revisionist to say that Spurs not playing DRob in the last few weeks was "tanking". The Spurs finished 16 games out of the 8th seed, and by the time DRob was cleared, there was no point in risking further injury. Is that tanking? Could they have played their best players coming off injury in order to maybe have the 6th worst record versus the 3rd? Maybe. But even if the lottery odds were flat (like they were when we drafted DRob), that would have still be stupid player management. You don't risk your franchise in meaningless games when there is that kind of injury risk.

They were just incredibly bad without DRob and Sean, as would any team missing its two biggest stars. Frickin' Carl Herrera started like 50+ games for us that year. I think Cadillac Anderson made his return to the Spurs that year as well and started a couple of games (talk about a dude who went in the crapper after he left the Spurs after his first two seasons). Monty Williams was on the team though, and I think it was his best season as a pro. I think 'Nique was pretty much done after this stint with the Spurs. He played overseas the season before and went back overseas after. I think he made a short stint back in the league a few years later but did absolutely nothing.

Of course, all of this can be verified and checked via Google, for anyone so included.

I didn't actually remember at what point of the season D-Rob was cleared to return, but if we were 16 games behind the 8th seed like you've said, yeah, there was absolutely no need whatsoever to try and bring him back that season. I don't understand why fans from other teams said we were blatantly tanking that year. It may have appeared that way from the outside looking in, but I don't think the Spurs intentionally did it (plenty of teams in the past 10-20 years have shut down a star player who's been injured rather then bring them back at the end of the season when they really had nothing to play for, but they don't get criticized for it as they didn't get the number 1 pick like the Spurs did). I like to believe that the Spurs got the number 1 pick that year due to not intentionally tanking over the teams that were tanking. Maybe we got a little help there from the BB gods.

[objective]

Thanks for all that great info. Some of it I knew, but just didn't remember. I just didn't have access to watch the team back then otherwise I still would have tried to watch every game (that's how big of a fan I was when I was a kid). Didn't get access to NBA games for another 8 years or so, but yeah, you are probably right in saying that hardly any Spurs fans watched the team that year.

I also completely forgot about the Chuck Person injury. I remember reading about it, but didn't remember the details until you mentioned it just now. I didn't know exactly how it happened. I just remember reading he injured his back on the plane. What a crappy freak injury.

I didn't remember Sean's exact injuries, so thanks for clarifying. I thought it might have been a knee or kidney issues, but was too long ago for me to remember. From what I recall, the kidney issues came later, but not sure if it was something Sean or the team was aware of in the '96 or '97 seasons?



I actually do remember reading he injured his back on the plane, but didn't know the details. Completely forgot about it until Objective brought it up and explained the details a bit more. Pretty shitty injury. I wonder how much longer Chuck could have played had it not have happened :(. He was very good on the Pacers and was also a solid player for the Spurs up until that injury too. I am guessing that injury derailed his career.



I didn't actually remember at what point of the season D-Rob was cleared to return, but if we were 16 games behind the 8th seed like you've said, yeah, there was absolutely no need whatsoever to try and bring him back that season. I don't understand why fans from other teams said we were blatantly tanking that year. It may have appeared that way from the outside looking in, but I don't think the Spurs intentionally did it (plenty of teams in the past 10-20 years have shut down a star player who's been injured rather then bring them back at the end of the season when they really had nothing to play for, but they don't get criticized for it as they didn't get the number 1 pick like the Spurs did). I like to believe that the Spurs got the number 1 pick that year due to not intentionally tanking over the teams that were tanking. Maybe we got a little help there from the BB gods.

Sean had both knee and kidney problems. The kidneys were known about when he failed his physical when Detroit tried to trade him to Houston. But he had knee and tendonitis issues back to college, he always wore the knee sleeves. Supposedly the kidney issues were caused or exacerbated by anti inflammatories for his knee pain, also thought to be an issue with Mourning.

Pop traded for him back when he was hired as gm and I think the Spurs waived the physical. The draft and trade news was so different back then, teams really sold the public on picks being legit before the official trade news happened. Spurs had a draft party and Pop came out to address the crowd on mic and said, "We took Bill Curley to back up David Robinson." And he was booed. For whatever reason he didn't give the hint that they had traded the pick for Sean and would have thrilled the crowd.

[wildbill2u]

The only reason the Spurs were criticized for tanking that year is that they wound up with the lucky draw in the lottery. If they hadn't got the number 1 pic, I doubt many people would have made so much out of the "deliberate tanking".

[Texas_Ranger]

yea baby, Gorgui Dieng is back

[mo7888]

Who's your second center?

Looks like the answer was G. Dieng

[Dejounte]

Looks like the answer was G. Dieng
Second center or third center. Buckle up.

[mo7888]

Second center or third center. Buckle up.

A total pro who'll be a good mentor and won't raise our floor but will allow our kids space to operate... I like it..

[emmo]

Sean’s kidneys were in the process of failing. He had also missed half a season either the year before or after, too. Not a fake or exaggerated injury.

Yeah he was out with tendinitis that year. His kidney disease was still a secret at that point. While the treatment probably contributed to his kidney situation, that’s not why Pop had him on the bench. We could go through each non-David injury and have that same debate. That’s not a slap at Pop or the Spurs.

[offset formation]

Actually I said "the FO seems to have done at last", so if we're going for rigor, let's start there. But regardless, that wouldn't be any more a leap of faith on my part than anyone claiming to know that the FO is NOT doing some other thing. Which is ok because this is an internet discussion board and not a peer reviewed scientific paper looking to get published. Everybody looks at the same data and draws different conclusions, based on how their perception and beliefs, and the best that you can ask for is something to back it up, instead of an explicit disclaimer that what's being said is merely an opinion.
In this case, when I look at pretty much every move the FO has made going back one year, it's cost us veteran talent and it's gotten us future picks and assets, which we've turned into an unusual number of rookies with some shared traits: extremely young and with perceived potential (even if I do not necessarily agree in all cases). That to me is more in line with a "deep" rebuild (whichever you want to call it), that simply a conviction that whomever leaves has a better alternative waiting to take his place. That's my stance, as much as you have yours, and as you said "sometimes, that is the case (that something is “TO BE DETERMINED”) and it is better than pretending to know". So until those facts arrive, we'll all continue to post our opinions in here.

Demar was leaving this team regardless last season, assuming he didn't get a max extension from us. So you can't equate how each player departed the team. DJ still had 2 years left on his deal.

Plus, DJ is a homegrown younger all star a franchise would ostensibly continue to build around aside from a tank.

[exstatic]

They milked broken feet and kidney failures on order to tank :lol Jesus the lengths people go to shit on their own team.

It disgusting to see them adopt enemy team fan fabrications.

[exstatic]

Yeah he was out with tendinitis that year. His kidney disease was still a secret at that point. While the treatment probably contributed to his kidney situation, that’s not why Pop had him on the bench. We could go through each non-David injury and have that same debate. That’s not a slap at Pop or the Spurs.

The tendinitis was treated with NSAIDs, which caused and aggravated his kidney condition. Since they couldn’t treat the tendinitis, he couldn’t play. Keep carrying water for Laker fans though. You do you.

[Mr. Body]

I still don't see Poeltl traded. Not sure Dieng moves the needle on that score much. We'll see.

[emmo]

The tendinitis was treated with NSAIDs, which caused and aggravated his kidney condition. Since they couldn’t treat the tendinitis, he couldn’t play. Keep carrying water for Laker fans though. You do you.

Bless your heart. Who the fuck are the Lakers?