Official 2022 NBA Free Agency Thread

[rjv]

should've just went to the Spurs when he had the chance to do it. Would've had a healthy environment, but no guys want to play somewhere more appealing and then cry about locker room issues :lol



somebody will draft Bronny just to get LeBron. I really hope it's the Sacramento Kings. Would be hilarious

i wouldn't put it past the kings to take on an aging lebron and his 2nd round talent of a son.

[Dex]

We can only recoup the roster spot. The money stays on the books until next July. I would hope we could negotiate a small buyout, like maybe $6+M that he’ll probably get for taxpayer MLE.


Yup, WB would stay on the cap sheet. Otherwise rich teams would waive highly paid fringe players all the time to create space and/or reduce luxury tax bills.

If he agrees to a buyout and signs with another team, I think the cap hit is reduced by whatever the new team pays him? Better to ask someone who actually knows.

Makes sense. Thanks...you learn something new every day, so now my learning for the day is done! :lol

[John B]

even if the lakers get kyrie, this is no guarantee that they win the title. i would argue that GS is just as good and the same for the celtics and bucks. not to mention that AD and LeDouche are always hurt. best case scenario is that the spurs get some nice picks out of this and the lakers wind up without a title.

I think a healthy AD and LeBron, plus Kyrie will be dangerous to ring. Why awaken a sleeping giant?

[rjv]

I think a healthy AD and LeBron, plus Kyrie will be dangerous to ring. Why awaken a sleeping giant?

lakers still might find a way otherwise. if the spurs can get something out of it, then so be it.

[exstatic]

Like paying Westbrick 40mil to go away... or 20 mil per each (maybe lottery) unprotected FRP's assuming Spurs get two. Yikes

We have to eat the salary to get the picks.

10 years ago, GS ‘paid’ $10M in accepting an additional year of HWSNBN’s salary for a pick that turned out to be #30 overall to send Stephen Jackson back here, and selected Festus Ezeli. $20M per unprotected pick ten years later doesn’t sound too bad.

[exstatic]

I rather it's the Spurs S&T with Poeltl, instead of this mad-idea of Westbrick buyout

That’s not the path we’re taking.

[exstatic]

47mil for 2 FRP and maybe 2 Swaps. Sounds steep.

You have to spend a big chunk of that, anyway, to hit minimum salary. Besides, we can’t eat the whole thing, anyway. We’d have to send out McD or JRich to match the incoming salary. So, it would be like $35M?

[exstatic]

I think a healthy AD and LeBron, plus Kyrie will be dangerous to ring. Why awaken a sleeping giant?

AD is never healthy, and LBron hasn’t been recently. The rest of their roster is dog crap.

[TD 21]

Hield & Turner for Ayton and Saric maybe? Then Phoenix could make an offer to Brooklyn with Hield, Turner, Bridges and picks

How is that any better than Ayton, Bridges, Johnson and picks/swaps? Unless the Jazz or Mitchell get real, I don't see the young, signed long term, first option type that the Suns probably need to provide the Nets with to get this done.

Knowing the arrogance of the Craptors, they're probably offering Anunoby, Trent Jr. and picks/swaps. Even if they relent on Siakam probably in place of Anunoby, he's 3.5 years older than Ingram.

That's why I keep coming back to the Pelicans. They're the only ones that checks all the boxes. Beyond the obvious (Ingram, Daniels, Murphy, etc.), they have 13 picks, some of which are from the Lakers and Bucks, plus are out of conference.



even if the lakers get kyrie, this is no guarantee that they win the title. i would argue that GS is just as good and the same for the celtics and bucks. not to mention that AD and LeDouche are always hurt. best case scenario is that the spurs get some nice picks out of this and the lakers wind up without a title.

Forget guarantee, more like they'd merely have a punchers chance (presuming James can maintain being a top half dozen player and Davis can bounce back to at least top 15ish), as opposed to no shot right now. The rest of their roster is laughably bad.

[exstatic]

How is that any better than Ayton, Bridges, Johnson and picks/swaps? Unless the Jazz or Mitchell get real, I don't see the young, signed long term, first option type that the Suns probably need to provide the Nets with to get this done.

Knowing the arrogance of the Craptors, they're probably offering Anunoby, Trent Jr. and picks/swaps. Even if they relent on Siakam probably in place of Anunoby, he's 3.5 years older than Ingram.

That's why I keep coming back to the Pelicans. They're the only ones that checks all the boxes. Beyond the obvious (Ingram, Daniels, Murphy, etc.), they have 13 picks, some of which are from the Lakers and Bucks, plus are out of conference.




Forget guarantee, more like they'd merely have a punchers chance (presuming James can maintain being a top half dozen player and Davis can bounce back to at least top 15ish), as opposed to no shot right now. The rest of their roster is laughably bad.

A top 6 and top 15 player, and a bunch of dog crap in a burning bag sounds an awful lot like our 2009-2012 squads: an easy playoff out.

[TD 21]

A top 6 and top 15 player, and a bunch of dog crap in a burning bag sounds an awful lot like our 2009-2012 squads: an easy playoff out.

I meant with Irving because even though the rest of the roster is pathetic, at that point, despite the age of James and durability of Davis and him, we'd be talking 3 top 20 players, who complement one another well, in a league with no boogeyman.

[RC_Drunkford]

How is that any better than Ayton, Bridges, Johnson and picks/swaps? Unless the Jazz or Mitchell get real, I don't see the young, signed long term, first option type that the Suns probably need to provide the Nets with to get this done.

Knowing the arrogance of the Craptors, they're probably offering Anunoby, Trent Jr. and picks/swaps. Even if they relent on Siakam probably in place of Anunoby, he's 3.5 years older than Ingram.

That's why I keep coming back to the Pelicans. They're the only ones that checks all the boxes. Beyond the obvious (Ingram, Daniels, Murphy, etc.), they have 13 picks, some of which are from the Lakers and Bucks, plus are out of conference.




Forget guarantee, more like they'd merely have a punchers chance (presuming James can maintain being a top half dozen player and Davis can bounce back to at least top 15ish), as opposed to no shot right now. The rest of their roster is laughably bad.

I'm not saying that's a good offer by Phoenix. I'm just saying they would probably offer that

[KingKev]

Real question, not even being sarcastic here...but waiving off Westbrook means the Spurs handing just him $47M to go away?

I get that it keeps his money off our books for cap purposes and keeps "both sides happy" and yada yada...but if I'm the ownership group, I'm balking at paying a guy nearly $50M just to leave, especially since they just paid Danilo like $10M to beat it.

Dude. Really? Basic capology c’mon.

[RC_Drunkford]

Westbrook ain't coming to the Spurs and the Lakers ain't getting Kyrie. They don't have the assets and Pop would be the last person on earth to help the Lakers. Even with Kyrie they still wouldn't win since their other players are complete garbage.

[Mugen]

Westbrook ain't coming to the Spurs and the Lakers ain't getting Kyrie. They don't have the assets and Pop would be the last person on earth to help the Lakers. Even with Kyrie they still wouldn't win since their other players are complete garbage.

Using that logic, Spurfan should have no qualms about trading for Westbrook if it means they're getting proper compensation tbh.

[Dex]

Dude. Really? Basic capology c’mon.

I will be the first to admit I don't understand all this cap shit. But I am open to learning, which is why I posed the question

[Chinook]

To be more exact, waiving Westbrook would be committing to giving Russ monthly paychecks of $1.2 Million for three years. It would all hit the cap this year, but cash doesn't follow the cap so closely. If the team is truly cash poor they might prefer that to play guys the full amount this year, but that's like apocalyptic financial constraints.

[BatManu20]

You love to see it.


1545172135395606528

[mo7888]

Real question, not even being sarcastic here...but waiving off Westbrook means the Spurs handing just him $47M to go away?

I get that it keeps his money off our books for cap purposes and keeps "both sides happy" and yada yada...but if I'm the ownership group, I'm balking at paying a guy nearly $50M just to leave, especially since they just paid Danilo like $10M to beat it.

I'd rather pay him $47M to leave than pay him $47M to play...

[Teamduncan21]

47mil for 2 FRP and maybe 2 Swaps. Sounds steep.


If salary is below minimum you have to spread the salary to the remaining players anyway. So one way or another spurs has to pay. Just to Westbrook or to keldon johnson

[SpursFan86]

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10041325-san-antonio-spurs-may-hold-keys-to-a-kyrie-irving-russell-westbrook-trade.amp.html

Article from Eric Pincus about Spurs getting involved in facilitating a Kyrie/Russ trade. The first paragraph makes it sound like there have been active discussions (as opposed to this being a theoretical “Spurs have cap space and could help out” type statement like Woj mentioned the other day).

The Brooklyn Nets and Los Angeles Lakers have held preliminary discussions on a Kyrie Irving trade, and sources indicate the teams are exploring the potential of pulling the San Antonio Spurs into a multi-team deal

[spurraider21]

Real question, not even being sarcastic here...but waiving off Westbrook means the Spurs handing just him $47M to go away?

I get that it keeps his money off our books for cap purposes and keeps "both sides happy" and yada yada...but if I'm the ownership group, I'm balking at paying a guy nearly $50M just to leave, especially since they just paid Danilo like $10M to beat it.
more likely he'd negotiate a buyout. the spurs have no interest in actually playing westbrook. westbrook presumably wants to play so he can earn another contract. he also presumably does not want to rot on the bench of a rebuilding team.

so they'd negotiate some buyout where he would accept something less than the full 47 mil and would be free to sign with a contender of his choosing for cheap. lets say for arguments sake they agree to buy him out at 40 million. in that case the spurs are basically just giving up 40 mil of their cap space this year... but in exchange for some draft compensation that they would make a condition of such a move.

so yeah, the owner has to sign off on a plan to pay a guy a ton of money who will never play for the team. but the cap ramifications are limited to this year where we arent really planning on using cap space anyway, so its really a win win for us. just up to the owner to agree to pay for it

[Chinook]

As I said, I don't think the Spurs would be getting Westbrook. The Nets would be better off keeping him a huge piece and breaking him up later than by taking bad to meh contracts. The Spurs can turn multi-year guys into expirings or even TEs. Hopefully it's not cheap, but that adds considerable value to two teams trying to figure things out with bloated payrolls.

Like this as the bones of the trade:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2qsq9t26 (http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2k3hfqrz)

With

The Lakers sending their 2027 pick and a swap to Brooklyn and the 2029 pick to the Spurs
The Hornets trading the Denver 2023 pick to Brooklyn and removes protection for their natural 2023 pick

CHA gets off Hayward's second year and gets useful win-now players.
BRK gets two picks and saves a fair bit of money for Irving and Curry
LAL turns their spare parts into two players who fit their win-now timeline but also fit with Davis and James really well.
SA likely gets an okay 2023 first and another guaranteed future first, bringing up their total unprotected pick count to four with two unprotected swaps and a top-1 protected first. They also randomly increase the cap space they have for this season, meaning they could easily participate in a Durant trade if need be.

[scott]

As I said, I don't think the Spurs would be getting Westbrook. The Nets would be better off keeping him a huge piece and breaking him up later than by taking bad to meh contracts. The Spurs can turn multi-year guys into expirings or even TEs. Hopefully it's not cheap, but that adds considerable value to two teams trying to figure things out with bloated payrolls.

Like this as the bones of the trade:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2qsq9t26 (http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2k3hfqrz)

With

The Lakers sending their 2027 pick and a swap to Brooklyn and the 2029 pick to the Spurs
The Hornets trading the Denver 2023 pick to Brooklyn and removes protection for their natural 2023 pick

CHA gets off Hayward's second year and gets useful win-now players.
BRK gets two picks and saves a fair bit of money for Irving and Curry
LAL turns their spare parts into two players who fit their win-now timeline but also fit with Davis and James really well.
SA likely gets an okay 2023 first and another guaranteed future first, bringing up their total unprotected pick count to four with two unprotected swaps and a top-1 protected first. They also randomly increase the cap space they have for this season, meaning they could easily participate in a Durant trade if need be.

This is some nice 4D-chess that is probably *just* too complicated to become reality, but would be awesome for us.

[Kevin]

As I said, I don't think the Spurs would be getting Westbrook. The Nets would be better off keeping him a huge piece and breaking him up later than by taking bad to meh contracts. The Spurs can turn multi-year guys into expirings or even TEs. Hopefully it's not cheap, but that adds considerable value to two teams trying to figure things out with bloated payrolls.

Like this as the bones of the trade:

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2qsq9t26 (http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2k3hfqrz)

With

The Lakers sending their 2027 pick and a swap to Brooklyn and the 2029 pick to the Spurs
The Hornets trading the Denver 2023 pick to Brooklyn and removes protection for their natural 2023 pick

CHA gets off Hayward's second year and gets useful win-now players.
BRK gets two picks and saves a fair bit of money for Irving and Curry
LAL turns their spare parts into two players who fit their win-now timeline but also fit with Davis and James really well.
SA likely gets an okay 2023 first and another guaranteed future first, bringing up their total unprotected pick count to four with two unprotected swaps and a top-1 protected first. They also randomly increase the cap space they have for this season, meaning they could easily participate in a Durant trade if need be.

Nets say no. They trade away Kyrie and Harris for horrible contract, an expiring and two picks one of which will be a mid to late first with Jamal Murray coming back. Great deal for everyone else.

[BackHome]

In the end the Nets will do a deal like this they not going to not play him and get nothing in return. Trust me as a Spurs fan I know cause we basically had to give up KAwhi for a player and 1 first and he was a much better player then head case is.

[Chinook]

Nets say no. They trade away Kyrie and Harris for horrible contract, an expiring and two picks one of which will be a mid to late first with Jamal Murray coming back. Great deal for everyone else.

Westbrook is a better contract than most here. People overestimate how bad it is because of how overrated Westbrook was as a player before the league finally caught on. He's less "worth his money", but he's a gigantic expiring that can be used to match a lot of salary without having to worry about aggregation. Overall, they save money on this deal and maintain the possibility of being able to market Westbrook and Durant for a short bit. Might even be part of selling KD on staying for another year as a "redemption tour" thing. The Nets would also be able to use the 2023 Denver pick as tradeable currency in a way a 2029 Lakers pick really isn't. The point of it wouldn't be to actually use it to pick a player but to help them acquire more help to build around whomever they have at the end of this since they don't seem willing to tank. They're still going to be really talented after these trades regardless of who goes or stays.

[Kevin]

Westbrook is a better contract than most here. People overestimate how bad it is because of how overrated Westbrook was as a player before the league finally caught on. He's less "worth his money", but he's a gigantic expiring that can be used to match a lot of salary without having to worry about aggregation. Overall, they save money on this deal and maintain the possibility of being able to market Westbrook and Durant for a short bit. Might even be part of selling KD on staying for another year as a "redemption tour" thing. The Nets would also be able to use the 2023 Denver pick as tradeable currency in a way a 2029 Lakers pick really isn't. The point of it wouldn't be to actually use it to pick a player but to help them acquire more help to build around whomever they have at the end of this since they don't seem willing to tank. They're still going to be really talented after these trades regardless of who goes or stays.

Kyrie alone is worth more than that let alone taking on a very questionable contract at best.

A three team Lowery for Irving swap with the Heat makes more sense.

[MannyIsGod]

Why would the Nets want an even WORSE contract in Lowery? What the fuck?

Y'all are seriously caught up on the 47 million part which is secondary to the fact that its expiring.

[Chinook]

Kyrie is expiring, older, oft-injured and mercurial, and even without that, he was always a glass cannon. He's a good player, but no, he's not worth more than two firsts a swap and expirings.

[Drom John]

FiveThirtyEight Raptor WAR, PG, 1 minute minimun

7) 8.0 Derrick White

13) 7.0 Dejounte Murray
14) 6.9 Kyle Lowry

28) 4.5 Kyrie Irving (1,261 minutes)

40) 2.9 Tre Jones, Damian Lillard, Payton Prithcard

139) -0.7 Chris Chiozza, Frank Jackson, Theo Maledon, Russell Westbrook


Total Raptor, rate stat, 1110 minutes (near Jones)

7) 4.2 Kyrie Irving

13) 3.5 Derrick White

15) 3.0 Dejounte Murray

18) 2.8 Kyle Lowry

21) 2.2 Tre Jones

63) -3.2 Russell Westbrook

[Kevin]

Why would the Nets want an even WORSE contract in Lowery? What the fuck?

Y'all are seriously caught up on the 47 million part which is secondary to the fact that its expiring.

That's why I said it would be a three team deal.

[Seventyniner]

Kyrie is expiring, older, oft-injured and mercurial, and even without that, he was always a glass cannon. He's a good player, but no, he's not worth more than two firsts a swap and expirings.

I can see a team desperate to make a splash and join the ranks of the "contenders" possibly overpaying for him. I'd include Atlanta and Minnesota but both teams already emptied their draft capital war chests.

Just throwing stuff at the wall here.

Denver has Jamaal Murray, and giving him up for Irving would almost be an overpay right there when factoring in chemistry etc.
Toronto has all its own picks, could send out FVV, and seems willing to swing for the fences.
Chicago can include Lonzo Ball, but playing DDR off the ball isn't the best use of his talents, and LaVine didn't re-sign to be the third option.
New Orleans can match salaries with McCollum and has extra picks to throw in.
New York has a bunch of extra picks now and has plenty of expiring ballast in Rose/Burks/Noel (all team options in 2023-24). They might be able to meet Brooklyn's asking price themselves without having to involve any other teams.

[MannyIsGod]

None of those teams except maybe the Knicks would event want Kyrie.

[exstatic]

Westbrook is a better contract than most here. People overestimate how bad it is because of how overrated Westbrook was as a player before the league finally caught on. He's less "worth his money", but he's a gigantic expiring that can be used to match a lot of salary without having to worry about aggregation. Overall, they save money on this deal and maintain the possibility of being able to market Westbrook and Durant for a short bit. Might even be part of selling KD on staying for another year as a "redemption tour" thing. The Nets would also be able to use the 2023 Denver pick as tradeable currency in a way a 2029 Lakers pick really isn't. The point of it wouldn't be to actually use it to pick a player but to help them acquire more help to build around whomever they have at the end of this since they don't seem willing to tank. They're still going to be really talented after these trades regardless of who goes or stays.

He’s trash. At this point, Jak + JRich > Russ

[buttsR4rebounding]

To me New Orleans seems like the most attractive landing spot for Durant from the Nets perspective. Heck, possibly even both Durant and Irving. Something like Ingram and CJ McCollum plus 5 FRPs for Durant and Irving. NOP are one of the few teams that could actually give the Nets more than 4 picks. If Durant goes to NO without Irving it seems like that would end the Lakers hope getting Irving. Since the Lakers picks owned by NO would likely be part of the haul the Nets would not want to do anything to dilute their assets. A core of Durant, Irving and a hopefully re-energized Zion could be formidable.

[BatManu20]

Mo Bamba back to ORL.

1545418184819412994

[scott]

To me New Orleans seems like the most attractive landing spot for Durant from the Nets perspective. Heck, possibly even both Durant and Irving. Something like Ingram and CJ McCollum plus 5 FRPs for Durant and Irving. NOP are one of the few teams that could actually give the Nets more than 4 picks. If Durant goes to NO without Irving it seems like that would end the Lakers hope getting Irving. Since the Lakers picks owned by NO would likely be part of the haul the Nets would not want to do anything to dilute their assets. A core of Durant, Irving and a hopefully re-energized Zion could be formidable.

This would be interesting to watch for sure, and is the move that gets the Nets closest to "whole" after giving all their picks to Houston.

[Chinook]

He’s trash. At this point, Jak + JRich > Russ

... What does that have to do with anything?

[R. DeMurre]

I can see a team desperate to make a splash and join the ranks of the "contenders" possibly overpaying for him. I'd include Atlanta and Minnesota but both teams already emptied their draft capital war chests.

Just throwing stuff at the wall here.

Denver has Jamaal Murray, and giving him up for Irving would almost be an overpay right there when factoring in chemistry etc.
Toronto has all its own picks, could send out FVV, and seems willing to swing for the fences.
Chicago can include Lonzo Ball, but playing DDR off the ball isn't the best use of his talents, and LaVine didn't re-sign to be the third option.
New Orleans can match salaries with McCollum and has extra picks to throw in.
New York has a bunch of extra picks now and has plenty of expiring ballast in Rose/Burks/Noel (all team options in 2023-24). They might be able to meet Brooklyn's asking price themselves without having to involve any other teams.


I can't see New Orleans even considering it. They're in such a good spot now, with a ton of young players, with Ingram just finishing his best year plus a nice playoff showing, with Zion signed, and with McCollum having stepped in and taken the veteran leadership role... that team really seems to have great camaraderie and spirit at the moment, and I can't see David Griffin and Trajan Langdon-- who have both been absolutely killin' it with draft & trade choices the last few years-- experimenting with the chemistry by adding Kyrie. I follow the Pelicans pretty closely and McCollum is extremely popular there after last season's trade. It might cause a teamwide and citywide mutiny to trade him for someone as "mercurial" (that's the euphemism I've seen used multiple times now here and elsewhere!) as Kyrie.

[Atl Spur]

I can't see New Orleans even considering it. They're in such a good spot now, with a ton of young players, with Ingram just finishing his best year plus a nice playoff showing, with Zion signed, and with McCollum having stepped in and taken the veteran leadership role... that team really seems to have great camaraderie and spirit at the moment, and I can't see David Griffin and Trajan Langdon-- who have both been absolutely killin' it with draft & trade choices the last few years-- experimenting with the chemistry by adding Kyrie. I follow the Pelicans pretty closely and McCollum is extremely popular there after last season's trade. It might cause a teamwide and citywide mutiny to trade him for someone as "mercurial" (that's the euphemism I've seen used multiple times now here and elsewhere!) as Kyrie.

^agreed

[Seventyniner]

I can't see New Orleans even considering it. They're in such a good spot now, with a ton of young players, with Ingram just finishing his best year plus a nice playoff showing, with Zion signed, and with McCollum having stepped in and taken the veteran leadership role... that team really seems to have great camaraderie and spirit at the moment, and I can't see David Griffin and Trajan Langdon-- who have both been absolutely killin' it with draft & trade choices the last few years-- experimenting with the chemistry by adding Kyrie. I follow the Pelicans pretty closely and McCollum is extremely popular there after last season's trade. It might cause a teamwide and citywide mutiny to trade him for someone as "mercurial" (that's the euphemism I've seen used multiple times now here and elsewhere!) as Kyrie.

I'll defer to your knowledge about the Pelicans. I was just thinking out loud. I've also seen teams make some head-scratching trades; I was just listing teams that I think would have the ability to pry Irving away without particular regard to their willingness.

There aren't all that many landing spots for Irving after all. The Lakers have the willingness but not the ability (unless Brooklyn lowers its ask price), and the Pelicans are evidently the opposite.

[Dverde]

Some chatter about Hornet’s Rozier/Hayward for Westbrick. Hornets trying for that #1 pick.

[Ariel]

I can't see New Orleans even considering it. They're in such a good spot now, with a ton of young players, with Ingram just finishing his best year plus a nice playoff showing, with Zion signed, and with McCollum having stepped in and taken the veteran leadership role... that team really seems to have great camaraderie and spirit at the moment, and I can't see David Griffin and Trajan Langdon-- who have both been absolutely killin' it with draft & trade choices the last few years-- experimenting with the chemistry by adding Kyrie. I follow the Pelicans pretty closely and McCollum is extremely popular there after last season's trade. It might cause a teamwide and citywide mutiny to trade him for someone as "mercurial" (that's the euphemism I've seen used multiple times now here and elsewhere!) as Kyrie.
Definitely. McCollum even went as far as saying he was going to take Zion under his wing, or something to that effect. Not only has he played well, but I think he embodies everything they want to build on. After all, they have the youth and the talent, they just need to steer them in the right direction and help them grow individually and as a group, and building that atmosphere and culture that is much more valuable for a franchise that has struggled with with it as much as NO has. One year's worth of the dysregulated mind of Kyrie in that team is like dropping a bottle of whisky in an AA meeting... just a disaster waiting to happen.

[KingKev]

Some chatter about Hornet’s Rozier/Hayward for Westbrick. Hornets trying for that #1 pick.

That is a team who would fully embrace 30/10/10 from Russ on the way to a 20-62 season.

[Ariel]

Some chatter about Hornet’s Rozier/Hayward for Westbrick. Hornets trying for that #1 pick.
If that happens it's only for clearing cap space, Westbrook has no place in a team with Lamelo in the driver's seat. And that move in itself would barely impact them if at all, it's the Miles Bridges whole deal that could really shake them, but nowhere near enough to put them in contention for a tank.

[scott]

Some chatter about Hornet’s Rozier/Hayward for Westbrick. Hornets trying for that #1 pick.

On the bright side, an immediate CHA tank might add value to the pick we own as it could put it more in play for 2024 or 2025.

[R. DeMurre]

The whole Westbrook situation is still pretty mindblowing for me. Every armchair GM (myself & lots of others here included!), most twitter scouts & professional analysts, etc., etc. said it wouldn't work and we/they were right. The Lakers clearly needed defense and shooting, not a low efficiency high usage rate guy like Russ who takes half a dozen+ defensive possessions off every game. Still incredible to me that LeBron, Pelinka, et al. actually thought it was a good idea. It reminds me of that survey of incoming rookies in the 2019 draft, where the rookies themselves voted for Cam Reddish as the player that would have the best career from their class....

[DPG21920]

On the bright side, an immediate CHA tank might add value to the pick we own as it could put it more in play for 2024 or 2025.

Unfortunately no. Only way SA gets a first from CHA is if CHA is a playoff team.

[scott]

Unfortunately no. Only way SA gets a first from CHA is if CHA is a playoff team.

Yes, that's the point. CHA tanking this season and getting a top 3 draft pick could increase the odds of them being a playoff team one of the following two years and thus more likely the pick conveys.

[DPG21920]

Yes, that's the point. CHA tanking this season and getting a top 3 draft pick could increase the odds of them being a playoff team one of the following two years and thus more likely the pick conveys.

I don’t think a team like CHA, who is already a fringe playoff team, losing Rozier and Bridges, and replacing them with a rookie (even a talented one) makes them any better next 2 years. But maybe I’m wrong

[Fusternino]

I think the idea of getting Westbrook was to save Lebron's legs for the postseason. But yes for all of the depth they gave up (and I suggested getting in on that by trading DDR there) there were going to have issues.

[tbdog]

Lakers should burn for that Westbrook trade and not be rewarded out. I'm not sure how often it's been when a star wants to go to your team and you just don't have close to the assets to make it happen and match salaries.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1394130482825203714/nx_RCiMQ_normal.jpg
Dan Weiss danWeissPBP
(https://twitter.com/DanWeissPBP)3m (https://twitter.com/DanWeissPBP/status/1545610240678297601)
Jeremy Sochan & Malaki Branham both officially sign their first contracts with the Spurs. Blake Wesley signed his deal Tuesday.

[Seventyniner]

iirc this means the Spurs can't trade any of Sochan/Branham/Wesley until August 15. Not that they plan to anyway.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1509990164415893517/qIuzsMq6_normal.jpg
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn)24m (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1546244966388666368)Adding on his partial guarantee for 2022-2023 prior to the Spurs waiving him, Gallinari will make $17M-plus this season and now joins the championship chase with the Celtics.



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Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn)30m (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1546243831661637632)
After clearing waivers, free agent F Danilo Gallinari has agreed on a two-year, $13.3M deal with the Boston Celtics, his agent Michael Tellem of @excelbasketball (https://twitter.com/excelbasketball/) tells ESPN. Deal is fully guaranteed and includes a player option.

[Mr. Body]

So what was the deal with including Landale? It seems like they were in a big rush to get the trade completed right away. Did they think Atlanta might have second thoughts? Did we lose a serviceable player for nothing?

[Degoat]

So what was the deal with including Landale? It seems like they were in a big rush to get the trade completed right away. Did they think Atlanta might have second thoughts? Did we lose a serviceable player for nothing?

I think the spurs we’re just desperate to bring back Gorgui Dieng jk idk definitely think the KD stuff made something fall through but who knows

[ace3g]

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Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn)39s (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1546267625478504448)
After clearing waivers, free agent C Taj Gibson has agreed to a one-year deal with the Washington Wizards, his agent Mark Bartelstein of @PrioritySports (https://twitter.com/PrioritySports/) tells ESPN.

[Ignazzz]

Does anyone get info or injury raport for Jaren Jackson Jr? How is his rehab?

[exstatic]

So what was the deal with including Landale? It seems like they were in a big rush to get the trade completed right away. Did they think Atlanta might have second thoughts? Did we lose a serviceable player for nothing?

Marcus Morris.

When you have the framework done, pull the trigger, especially when you’re robbing someone. Only bad things can happen if you wait. None of the Kyrie/KD drama had started. That could have adversely affected the deal.

[JeffDuncan]

So what was the deal with including Landale? …


Most likely a favor to him. Jock’s contract calls for 1.5M next season but none of it is guaranteed yet. He has to be on a roster on Oct 1 to get that money. But he’s not in the Spurs plans for next season. Obviously. If they simply cut him he’d lose that. By including him in the trade he’s still got a chance at it. Also, he got $46,000 just by being in the trade. Not a fortune but enough to buy a lot of pizza.

[tbdog]

Spurs were like 50k short in players going out to match the salaries as per rules. Spurs choices were like wisekamp, cacok, Jones, diop and Landale.

[BatManu20]

Hopefully this is enough to knock Indy out of the top-10 of next year’s projected lottery. 1546504227912093696

[BatManu20]

Will also knock PHX out of the KD sweepstakes, though I think he ends up staying in BKN anyways.

[mo7888]

Will also knock PHX out of the KD sweepstakes, though I think he ends up staying in BKN anyways.

I'm not sure it knocks them out but it does shorten the timeline to get it done with Brooklyn. They'd need to expand the Ayton deal as a S&T and rope in a couple more teams to get it done asap...

[cd98]

My guess is Nets don't want Ayton. If they did, I think that deal would likely have been done over the weekend after it became clear that Indiana was a threat to get him. Are the Suns content with Bismack and Jock?

[Leetonidas]

Hopefully this is enough to knock Indy out of the top-10 of next year’s projected lottery. 1546504227912093696

:lol they've been saying this since last week

[KingKev]

My guess is Nets don't want Ayton. If they did, I think that deal would likely have been done over the weekend after it became clear that Indiana was a threat to get him. Are the Suns content with Bismack and Jock?

if they are getting assets back in a sign and trade they can figure that out later.

[Ariel]

if they are getting assets back in a sign and trade they can figure that out later.
If the Pacers can and are willing to sign Ayton to an offer sheet, those assets are unlikely to be significant. To get KD Phoenix will still likely need to both gut their roster & mortgage their future.

[Russ]

1546504227912093696

Could this make Myles Turner the odd man out? :)

[baseline bum]

Will also knock PHX out of the KD sweepstakes, though I think he ends up staying in BKN anyways.

Brooklyn has no reason to trade him for scraps when he's under contract four more years. Let that ring chaser retire if he doesn't want to honor his contract.

[rjv]

KD is in a bad spot. unlike previous players like harden and nephew, he has way too many years left on his deal. the nets have all the leverage here. fuck KD.

[BatManu20]

:lol they've been saying this since last week

The holdup reportedly has been that Indiana still hasn’t officially traded Malcolm Brogdon to Boston because he has yet to complete his physical. Brogdon is reportedly undergoing that physical today, so the deal will be finalized tomorrow. Once that cap space opens, then Indy can sign-and-trade Myles Turner for Ayton.

[BatManu20]

KD is in a bad spot. unlike previous players like harden and nephew, he has way too many years left on his deal. the nets have all the leverage here. fuck KD.

Yea KD is fucked. He’s gonna have to suck it up and play for Brooklyn for at least another season, cause their asking price is way too high for any of these teams. No one is gutting their roster + multiple draft picks for 34 year old KD at this point, and they shouldn’t.

[Fusternino]

Any chance then that we can get Ayton on a low ball offer like 4/100?

[R. DeMurre]

Phoenix did a decent job of team building and making the finals two straight years, but it looks like it's on the verge of slipping away. CP3 is still their most impactful player and he's 37, and he's a long shot on ever getting through an entire playoff season injury free. Booker is maxed out and doesn't play D, and if they match the Ayton offer, he comes back obviously unhappy. They had big problems in the first round against a Pelicans team that was missing arguably their best player, and at this point I'd say New Orleans has a brighter future.

[spurraider21]

Any chance then that we can get Ayton on a low ball offer like 4/100?
nope

[Mr. Body]

Yea KD is fucked. He’s gonna have to suck it up and play for Brooklyn for at least another season, cause their asking price is way too high for any of these teams. No one is gutting their roster + multiple draft picks for 34 year old KD at this point, and they shouldn’t.

Yeah, I think Durant will have to suck it up, poor boy. Nets may just sit on Kyrie until they can get two picks out of LA, who will feel increasingly desperate, or until his dumb contract runs out. Or the idiot might change his tune to wanting to play for "any contender" and he gets moved before the deadline. Durant will have to actually lead a team as its best player, a spot rife for comedy.

[The Truth #6]

Despite what Adam Silver probably thinks, having the Lakers and the Nets fail completely, to me, is probably a great thing for the league. I don’t want the owners to have all of the control, but neither do I want superstar players indirectly manipulating small-market teams with their demands for player movement, always, of course, to the bigger market teams.

“They knew the risks. I say, let ‘em crash!”
Airplane 2

[mo7888]

After previously shutting down inquiries on moving All-Star guard Donovan Mitchell, rival teams say the Utah Jazz are showing a willingness to listen on possible trade scenarios, sources tell ESPN.

Woj

[TD 21]

After previously shutting down inquiries on moving All-Star guard Donovan Mitchell, rival teams say the Utah Jazz are showing a willingness to listen on possible trade scenarios, sources tell ESPN.

Woj

This was the opening the Suns needed. Something like the following makes the most sense . . .

Nets receive: Mitchell, Turner, Bridges/Johnson, minor picks/swaps via Suns

Suns receive: Durant

Jazz receive: Simmons, unprecedented haul of unprotected picks/swaps via Suns

Nets/Suns likely haggle over which of Bridges/Johnson while Jazz probably canvass the league to find a fourth team to take Simmons. Of course, other names could be included as well.

[RC_Drunkford]

Looks like Utah will be our biggest tanking rival

[John B]

This was the opening the Suns needed. Something like the following makes the most sense . . .

Nets receive: Mitchell, Turner, Bridges/Johnson, minor picks/swaps via Suns

Suns receive: Durant

Jazz receive: Simmons, unprecedented haul of unprotected picks/swaps via Suns

Nets/Suns likely haggle over which of Bridges/Johnson while Jazz probably canvass the league to find a fourth team to take Simmons. Of course, other names could be included as well.

I’d effing take Simmons. I doubt he wants to be in a rebuilding team though. But that should expedite Spurs rebuilding. Now to convince Chip to stay longer :depressed

[spurraider21]

sucks that utah will be competition for the tank, but more big players moving around = more opportunities for us to sell off cap space

[Ariel]

Carlisle just said something to the effect of "nobody wanted to come play in Indiana, now we've got free agents wanting to come to play with Haliburton"... I wonder if he didn't just give away that Ayton to the Pacers is imminent...

I’d effing take Simmons. I doubt he wants to be in a rebuilding team though. But that should expedite Spurs rebuilding. Now to convince Chip to stay longer :depressed
Simmons' problem is the kind that's toughest to fix, as it's in his own head. You can't surgically repair it, and it will only get worse as pressure rises. Any team who touches Simmons is doomed from the start.

[Ariel]

I think the next move is Donovan Mitchell to NY... expect no less than 7 picks to go out (NYs own 2023 + 2025 + 2027 + 2029 + 2023 from Dallas, Washington & Detroit)
I feel that the chances of this happening are increasing by the minute... I said Ainge supposedly wanting to build around Mitchell was likely posturing on the part of a smart negotiator trying to gain leverage... well... suddenly they seem to be "willing to listen"...

[Leetonidas]

NY post reporting kyrie wants to stay in Brooklyn now :lol

[Chinook]

This was the opening the Suns needed. Something like the following makes the most sense . . .

Nets receive: Mitchell, Turner, Bridges/Johnson, minor picks/swaps via Suns

Suns receive: Durant

Jazz receive: Simmons, unprecedented haul of unprotected picks/swaps via Suns

Nets/Suns likely haggle over which of Bridges/Johnson while Jazz probably canvass the league to find a fourth team to take Simmons. Of course, other names could be included as well.

I don't think the Nets would want Mitchell at the expense of Simmons. It's a shame that they can't have both players on the team at the same time, because they're a great fit together. But that can't be helped. I am not one of those guys who thinks the Nets can't tank because of the pick they owe Houston -- tanking increases the likelihood of getting a good pick regardless unless Houston is great this year. But if they have a chance to pair two All-Stars together, they should take that. While I agree that the more stars on the market, the better for a Durant trade, they'll need to find a way to make that work to get them a guy to pair with Simmons. No one is going to pay a premium for Ben, so the paths to building a competent roster are easier with him than by moving him.

[Mr. Body]

NY post reporting kyrie wants to stay in Brooklyn now :lol

LMAO

[Chinook]

sucks that utah will be competition for the tank, but more big players moving around = more opportunities for us to sell off cap space

Yep. A Charlotte fan was talking about MJ wanting to make a pitch for Mitchel. Unprotecting their 2023 first would be key to being able to offer an all-in package, and the Spurs have a couple of win-now players, expirings and cap space to fit in nicely in a Mitchel-to-CHA trade and get one if not two unprotected firsts in this draft.

[Leetonidas]

NY post reporting kyrie wants to stay in Brooklyn now :lol

https://nypost.com/2022/07/12/kyrie-irving-wants-to-be-a-net-with-or-without-kevin-durant/

[Ariel]

Yep. A Charlotte fan was talking about MJ wanting to make a pitch for Mitchel. Unprotecting their 2023 first would be key to being able to offer an all-in package, and the Spurs have a couple of win-now players, expirings and cap space to fit in nicely in a Mitchel-to-CHA trade and get one if not two unprotected firsts in this draft.
If Mitchell were going to Charlotte, Utah most likely would rather take that salary & unprotected picks for themselves.

[Leetonidas]

Would be crazy if OKC packaged their trove of assets to get Mitchell and Durant. If they can keep SGA thats a pretty good win now team. They're probably one if of not the only team that may have the assets to pull it off

[Chinook]

If Mitchell were going to Charlotte, Utah most likely would rather take that salary & unprotected picks for themselves.

They can't take Charlotte's unprotected 2023 first, because the Spurs own the protected version. Charlotte can't trade their 25, 27 and 29 firsts either, because the Spurs own their picks for three years. They could only guarantee two unprotected picks and two swaps. If they unprotect the pick, they have way more freedom to trade the rest, but the Spurs have to agree to that.

Also the Bridges stuff makes it more likely that Charlotte wants to keep Hayward in a win-now situation, so I'd bet on them preferring Rozier go out. His contract is probably not something the Jazz would just take without wanting more compensation than Charlotte can offer. SA could take either Rozier or (hopefully) Conley to ease the burden, for a fee. Also, also, the Hornets may want a win-now center like Poeltl if they're going all in, especially if they're trading Mark Williams to Utah. The Spurs are a very good match here.

[Chinook]

Would be crazy if OKC packaged their trove of assets to get Mitchell and Durant. If they can keep SGA thats a pretty good win now team. They're probably one if of not the only team that may have the assets to pull it off

Durant and Ayton would make more sense.

SGA
Giddy
Durant
Holmgren
Ayton

That would be unreal.

[Ariel]

They can't take Charlotte's unprotected 2023 first, because the Spurs own the protected version. Charlotte can't trade their 25, 27 and 29 firsts either, because the Spurs own their picks for three years. They could only guarantee two unprotected picks and two swaps. If they unprotect the pick, they have way more freedom to trade the rest, but the Spurs have to agree to that.

Also the Bridges stuff makes it more likely that Charlotte wants to keep Hayward in a win-now situation, so I'd bet on them preferring Rozier go out. His contract is probably not something the Jazz would just take without wanting more compensation than Charlotte can offer. SA could take either Rozier or (hopefully) Conley to ease the burden, for a fee. Also, also, the Hornets may want a win-now center like Poeltl if they're going all in, especially if they're trading Mark Williams to Utah. The Spurs are a very good match here.
I'm sure that's incorrect. Charlotte can still trade the pick in the ranges where they don't owe it, for instance they own the pick should it fall in the lottery for the next 3 years. For instance the 2025 Chicago pick we're owed for the DeRozan trade only conveys is the Bulls already settled their obligation to Orlando from the previous Vucevic trade, if not it gets pushed back a year until that is settled. So Charlotte and Utah could arrange the picks so that the ranges traded don't collide, and from there on, they get the picks as long as the Spurs. The fact that the Spurs own a single pick that could convey through multiple years might make it a more messy matter, but the interesting part (transferring the rights to the pick should it fall within the lottery range) is what should draw Utah's attention, "unprotected" is just a label if the protection works in your favor and not against you.

[offset formation]

Durant and Ayton would make more sense.

SGA
Giddy
Durant
Holmgren
Ayton

That would be unreal.

The length.

[Atl Spur]

Durant and Ayton would make more sense.

SGA
Giddy
Durant
Holmgren
Ayton

That would be unreal.

Yuck!!! I would not like that at all!

[ace3g]

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Shams Charania ShamsCharania
(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)39s (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1547065893909237764)
Milwaukee Bucks swingman Pat Connaughton is finalizing a three-year, $30 million contract extension with the franchise, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/). The deal takes the Bucks' key shooter and well-regarded leader through the 2025-26 season.

[TD 21]

I’d effing take Simmons. I doubt he wants to be in a rebuilding team though. But that should expedite Spurs rebuilding. Now to convince Chip to stay longer :depressed

I'd have no interest but I wouldn't put it past the Spurs if the price were as relatively low as something like Poeltl, Langford and one of the lesser 1sts.

The appeal for the Jazz would be tanking and generating significantly more financial flexibility to act as a dumping ground for dead money to extract even more draft capital.



I don't think the Nets would want Mitchell at the expense of Simmons. It's a shame that they can't have both players on the team at the same time, because they're a great fit together. But that can't be helped. I am not one of those guys who thinks the Nets can't tank because of the pick they owe Houston -- tanking increases the likelihood of getting a good pick regardless unless Houston is great this year. But if they have a chance to pair two All-Stars together, they should take that. While I agree that the more stars on the market, the better for a Durant trade, they'll need to find a way to make that work to get them a guy to pair with Simmons. No one is going to pay a premium for Ben, so the paths to building a competent roster are easier with him than by moving him.

The Nets are in a tough spot. Right now, there doesn't appear to be a young star available and Mitchell, flaws and all, is better than any they could realistically hope to acquire anyway. Young, signed long term, local and easily marketable to casuals checks a lot of boxes. Plus, they'd obviously get other quality players and picks.

They would be an ideal fit together though.

[DAF86]

Durant and Ayton would make more sense.

SGA
Giddy
Durant
Holmgren
Ayton

That would be unreal.

That lineup would never work now that Durant has lost a step or two. Way too stiff and slow. Not sure it would work with prime Durant either.

[Ariel]

I'm sure that's incorrect. Charlotte can still trade the pick in the ranges where they don't owe it, for instance they own the pick should it fall in the lottery for the next 3 years. For instance the 2025 Chicago pick we're owed for the DeRozan trade only conveys is the Bulls already settled their obligation to Orlando from the previous Vucevic trade, if not it gets pushed back a year until that is settled. So Charlotte and Utah could arrange the picks so that the ranges traded don't collide, and from there on, they get the picks as long as the Spurs. The fact that the Spurs own a single pick that could convey through multiple years might make it a more messy matter, but the interesting part (transferring the rights to the pick should it fall within the lottery range) is what should draw Utah's attention, "unprotected" is just a label if the protection works in your favor and not against you.
I read up on it. Apparently you can't trade ranges directly, but that ends up happening if you trade an unprotected pick and the team receiving it further trades it but adds a protection, like NO did when they traded the unprotected they got from Davis to Memphis, but with an added top 10 protection, which basically went to one team or the other depending and for practical purposes was equivalent to trading ranges. But that's usually not the case with your own picks, so in this case it seems the most Charlotte could do is offer:
1) 2027 & 2029 unprotected 1sts + 2026 & 2028 unprotected swaps
2) 3 unprotected firsts 2 years apart, starting from the date the Spurs get the pick. That could mean 2025 + 2027 + 2029 unprotected firsts (if we get the pick in 2023), or 2026 + 2028 unprotected first (if we get the pick in 2024) or 2027 + 2029 unprotected firsts (if we get the pick in 2025). I think it would be possible to trade the right swaps in the years in between, in that case that'd be a Dejounte like package.
But yes, the pick the Spurs own really mess up the offer they can make, so they'd be better off offering the Spurs some compensation to freely dispose of their remaining picks.

[Seventyniner]

I'm sure that's incorrect. Charlotte can still trade the pick in the ranges where they don't owe it, for instance they own the pick should it fall in the lottery for the next 3 years. For instance the 2025 Chicago pick we're owed for the DeRozan trade only conveys is the Bulls already settled their obligation to Orlando from the previous Vucevic trade, if not it gets pushed back a year until that is settled. So Charlotte and Utah could arrange the picks so that the ranges traded don't collide, and from there on, they get the picks as long as the Spurs. The fact that the Spurs own a single pick that could convey through multiple years might make it a more messy matter, but the interesting part (transferring the rights to the pick should it fall within the lottery range) is what should draw Utah's attention, "unprotected" is just a label if the protection works in your favor and not against you.

I think the point is that the Hornets can't trade their 2023 pick to another team because it's possible for it to convey to the Spurs (if it falls outside 1-16). The same is true in 2024 and 2025 (protected 1-14 each of those years). My understanding of the Stepien Rule is that a team cannot make a trade that could possibly leave them in a situation where they have no first round pick in two future consecutive years, so Charlotte can't trade their 2026 first at all because they don't know yet that it won't convey in 2025, and won't know that until either the pick actually conveys to the Spurs (in 2023 or 2024) or the conclusion of the 2024-2025 season.

That means the earliest first Charlotte can trade at all is 2027. I don't know why Chinook said they can't trade the 2027 or 2029 picks. Maybe I'm missing something.

[Chinook]

That lineup would never work now that Durant has lost a step or two. Way too stiff and slow. Not sure it would work with prime Durant either.

Prime Durant could and did 100 percent play SF. I think he's more of a PF now, but his perimeter defense wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal with two mobile bigs behind him. If Holmgren can't play PF in the modern game, it's going to hurt his stock a lot. SGA and Giddy can obviously play their positions. .

[Chinook]

I'm sure that's incorrect. .

It's not. Charlotte cannot directly trade the 2023 pick at all, because then they wouldn't be able to convey at 2024 pick to the Spurs. It's completely off limits, as is the 2024 pick. The 2025 pick is technically tradeable, but they can't guarantee it because the Spurs would still have the rights to it if the Hornets somehow don't convey a pick until then. So the only picks the Hornets could guarantee are the 2027 and 2029 firsts and the 2026 and 2028 swaps. Every other pick is currently encumbered. There's no backroom deal that Charlotte and Utah can have to give the Jazz the 2023 pick. The best they could do is agree to swap any of the picks they have in that range with picks Utah has, after the Spurs obligation is taken into account. So the Hornets can agree to swap their reverse-protected pick in 2023, provided they get a guaranteed first back, but if the pick falls into the Spurs' range, the Jazz can't swap, because the Spurs didn't agree to let them.

To say it again, Charlotte does not have their unprotected 2023 pick. They only have their (reverse) protected 2023 pick to swap. Then they can trade protected swap rights for their 2024 pick. They can trade their 2025 pick, but that pick has to be protected to basically not convey if the Spurs are owed it. So if for example, the Hornets' pick is not conveyed in 2023 and 2024, the Jazz wouldn't be able to get either of those picks, or the 2025 or 2026 picks. They could get swaps for the picks that aren't 2025, but even though the Hornets 2023 pick wasn't in a consecutive year from a pick that conveyed, the Stepien rule prevented them from trading it, since they don't know the future.

[Ariel]

It's not. Charlotte cannot directly trade the 2023 pick at all, because then they wouldn't be able to convey at 2024 pick to the Spurs. It's completely off limits, as is the 2024 pick. The 2025 pick is technically tradeable, but they can't guarantee it because the Spurs would still have the rights to it if the Hornets somehow don't convey a pick until then. So the only picks the Hornets could guarantee are the 2027 and 2029 firsts and the 2026 and 2028 swaps. Every other pick is currently encumbered. There's no backroom deal that Charlotte and Utah can have to give the Jazz the 2023 pick. The best they could do is agree to swap any of the picks they have in that range with picks Utah has, after the Spurs obligation is taken into account. So the Hornets can agree to swap their reverse-protected pick in 2023, provided they get a guaranteed first back, but if the pick falls into the Spurs' range, the Jazz can't swap, because the Spurs didn't agree to let them.

To say it again, Charlotte does not have their unprotected 2023 pick. They only have their (reverse) protected 2023 pick to swap. Then they can trade protected swap rights for their 2024 pick. They can trade their 2025 pick, but that pick has to be protected to basically not convey if the Spurs are owed it. So if for example, the Hornets' pick is not conveyed in 2023 and 2024, the Jazz wouldn't be able to get either of those picks, or the 2025 or 2026 picks. They could get swaps for the picks that aren't 2025, but even though the Hornets 2023 pick wasn't in a consecutive year from a pick that conveyed, the Stepien rule prevented them from trading it, since they don't know the future.
Yeah, didn't need to type that, I already answered myself half an hour ago two posts above yours:

I read up on it. Apparently you can't trade ranges directly, but that ends up happening if you trade an unprotected pick and the team receiving it further trades it but adds a protection, like NO did when they traded the unprotected they got from Davis to Memphis, but with an added top 10 protection, which basically went to one team or the other depending and for practical purposes was equivalent to trading ranges. But that's usually not the case with your own picks, so in this case it seems the most Charlotte could do is offer:
1) 2027 & 2029 unprotected 1sts + 2026 & 2028 unprotected swaps
2) 3 unprotected firsts 2 years apart, starting from the date the Spurs get the pick. That could mean 2025 + 2027 + 2029 unprotected firsts (if we get the pick in 2023), or 2026 + 2028 unprotected first (if we get the pick in 2024) or 2027 + 2029 unprotected firsts (if we get the pick in 2025). I think it would be possible to trade the right swaps in the years in between, in that case that'd be a Dejounte like package.
But yes, the pick the Spurs own really mess up the offer they can make, so they'd be better off offering the Spurs some compensation to freely dispose of their remaining picks.

[Chinook]

I think the point is that the Hornets can't trade their 2023 pick to another team because it's possible for it to convey to the Spurs (if it falls outside 1-16). The same is true in 2024 and 2025 (protected 1-14 each of those years). My understanding of the Stepien Rule is that a team cannot make a trade that could possibly leave them in a situation where they have no first round pick in two future consecutive years, so Charlotte can't trade their 2026 first at all because they don't know yet that it won't convey in 2025, and won't know that until either the pick actually conveys to the Spurs (in 2023 or 2024) or the conclusion of the 2024-2025 season.

That means the earliest first Charlotte can trade at all is 2027. I don't know why Chinook said they can't trade the 2027 or 2029 picks. Maybe I'm missing something.

I said it a bit weirdly. I was responding to Ariel suggesting that if the 2023 unprotected first was on the table that Utah would demand it. Utah has no claim to the 2023 pick, because it's already owed (in part) by the Spurs. Not only can the Hornets not trade it, but they can't even make it unprotected to trade the 2025, 2027 and 2029 picks without consulting the Spurs, even though it's very arguably a pure benefit for the Spurs that they do so. If they work a deal out with the Spurs to unprotect the pick, Charlotte can offer Utah three unprotected firsts and unprotected three swaps. If they don't get the Spurs to agree, they can only offer two unprotected firsts and two unprotected swaps (and one protected first in 2025 that would immediately extinguish if the Spurs' obligations haven't been met and swap options in 2023 and 2024 that would be encumbered by the Spurs owning their pick). It's a significantly weaker package. The only way the Jazz get that 2023 unprotected pick from Charlotte is if they compensate the Spurs and Hornets for it, though for Charlotte, it would just be part of their payment for Mitchell.

[Chinook]

Yeah, didn't need to type that, I already answered myself half an hour ago two posts above yours:

But that's still not right. Protection isn't just a matter of being positive or negative. You totally can trade picks in ranges. You can have a second-round pick that conveys to one of six teams depending on which range it falls in. Unprotected means there's no encumbrance on the pick at all, not that it doesn't "work against you". There are a couple of "reverse-protected" picks still out there. That's a legitimate form of protection where a team holds off on receiving a bad pick in hopes that a good pick falls later. That's fallen out of favor in lieu of giving deference options (like NOP has with LAL).

What this means is that if the Spurs had a one-and-done protected shot at the Hornets pick, Charlotte totally could trade their 2023 pick, protected for the range the Spurs already own it, to the Jazz. It's because they can't actually trade that pick, even if they protected it for the range the Spurs have, and still trade the Spurs their 2024 pick that the Stepien rule comes into play. As far as the 2025 pick is concerned, it might be possible that the Hornets could agree to trade their encumbered and reverse-protected pick -- that basically if the Spurs didn't get the pick in 2023 or 2024, then the pick is protected for selections 1-14 for the Spurs and 16-30 for the Hornets and becomes 2026 and 2027 seconds for the team that doesn't get the pick. But I don't know if the league would let them do that. The Chicago first the Spurs own is actually a decent precedent for that, since both the 2023 and 2025 picks are protected two different teams. We know the 2025 encumbered first is 100-percent tradeable. It's just in the typical understanding, the pick would be encumbered in 2025 and would convey in either 2025 or 2026, and the 2027 pick would convey in 2027 or 2028. That's completely doable, but then the 2029 pick would be encumbered and then expire if not conveyable. It would be the same effect as trading the 2027 and 2029 picks, but the swaps would be replaced by the guarantee of getting the picks earlier.

[Chinook]

Really hating the lack of editing.

I just wanted to clarify that I use "encumbrance" to mean anything that would prevent a pick from conveying, be it protections or the Stepien rule. You can have encumbered unprotected picks. While I don't know that you can have unencumbered protected picks, you can have guaranteed protected picks. The Jazz, as far as I know, have a guaranteed pick from Brooklyn thanks to the O'Neal deal. They can trade all of their remaining 2023 and 2024 firsts and not violate the Stepien rule. But they don't know which pick they'll get because Houston and Brooklyn get the best and second-best picks. Since Utah has unprotected rights to their pick and Minny's pick for that year, they can actually offer the worst of all five picks AND the second-worst of all five picks to separate teams, meaning five teams could all have guaranteed 2023 first but still have no idea whose pick they're getting. Bonkers.

[Ariel]

What this means is that if the Spurs had a one-and-done protected shot at the Hornets pick, Charlotte totally could trade their 2023 pick, protected for the range the Spurs already own it, to the Jazz. It's because they can't actually trade that pick, even if they protected it for the range the Spurs have, and still trade the Spurs their 2024 pick that the Stepien rule comes into play. As far as the 2025 pick is concerned, it might be possible that the Hornets could agree to trade their encumbered and reverse-protected pick -- that basically if the Spurs didn't get the pick in 2023 or 2024, then the pick is protected for selections 1-14 for the Spurs and 16-30 for the Hornets and becomes 2026 and 2027 seconds for the team that doesn't get the pick. But I don't know if the league would let them do that. The Chicago first the Spurs own is actually a decent precedent for that, since both the 2023 and 2025 picks are protected two different teams. We know the 2025 encumbered first is 100-percent tradeable. It's just in the typical understanding, the pick would be encumbered in 2025 and would convey in either 2025 or 2026, and the 2027 pick would convey in 2027 or 2028. That's completely doable, but then the 2029 pick would be encumbered and then expire if not conveyable. It would be the same effect as trading the 2027 and 2029 picks, but the swaps would be replaced by the guarantee of getting the picks earlier.
Which is why I said:

in this case it seems the most Charlotte could do is offer:
1) 2027 & 2029 unprotected 1sts + 2026 & 2028 unprotected swaps
2) 3 unprotected firsts 2 years apart, starting from the date the Spurs get the pick. That could mean 2025 + 2027 + 2029 unprotected firsts (if we get the pick in 2023), or 2026 + 2028 unprotected first (if we get the pick in 2024) or 2027 + 2029 unprotected firsts (if we get the pick in 2025). I think it would be possible to trade the right swaps in the years in between, in that case that'd be a Dejounte like package.
But yes, the pick the Spurs own really mess up the offer they can make, so they'd be better off offering the Spurs some compensation to freely dispose of their remaining picks.
Precisely by shortening the time window for it to convey by offering a reduction in the protection range.

[rogcl1]

I’d effing take Simmons. I doubt he wants to be in a rebuilding team though. But that should expedite Spurs rebuilding. Now to convince Chip to stay longer :depressed
F____ Simmons, and Chip is no god or miracle worker.

[rogcl1]

The Nets do not need to be in any kind of desperation mode. They need to get rid of Kyrie first and get what they can for him. Durant has a long term contract and must play if they do not get a deal to their liking . Now if they can get the second generation Kawhi in Simmons to actually play they would be decent. This is a test of the size of their nut sacks and the whole league.

[Ariel]

But that's still not right. Protection isn't just a matter of being positive or negative. You totally can trade picks in ranges. You can have a second-round pick that conveys to one of six teams depending on which range it falls in. Unprotected means there's no encumbrance on the pick at all, not that it doesn't "work against you". There are a couple of "reverse-protected" picks still out there. That's a legitimate form of protection where a team holds off on receiving a bad pick in hopes that a good pick falls later. That's fallen out of favor in lieu of giving deference options (like NOP has with LAL).

What this means is that if the Spurs had a one-and-done protected shot at the Hornets pick, Charlotte totally could trade their 2023 pick, protected for the range the Spurs already own it, to the Jazz. It's because they can't actually trade that pick, even if they protected it for the range the Spurs have, and still trade the Spurs their 2024 pick that the Stepien rule comes into play. As far as the 2025 pick is concerned, it might be possible that the Hornets could agree to trade their encumbered and reverse-protected pick -- that basically if the Spurs didn't get the pick in 2023 or 2024, then the pick is protected for selections 1-14 for the Spurs and 16-30 for the Hornets and becomes 2026 and 2027 seconds for the team that doesn't get the pick. But I don't know if the league would let them do that. The Chicago first the Spurs own is actually a decent precedent for that, since both the 2023 and 2025 picks are protected two different teams. We know the 2025 encumbered first is 100-percent tradeable. It's just in the typical understanding, the pick would be encumbered in 2025 and would convey in either 2025 or 2026, and the 2027 pick would convey in 2027 or 2028. That's completely doable, but then the 2029 pick would be encumbered and then expire if not conveyable. It would be the same effect as trading the 2027 and 2029 picks, but the swaps would be replaced by the guarantee of getting the picks earlier.
You clearly have spent way more time reading up on it, but I think it can be stated in simpler terms:
When you trade a 1st round pick with a protection that would cause it to defer to a 1st the following year, you're not free to include in a second trade even the range you still hold the rights to, because doing so would interfere with the rights of the team to whom you first traded the pick (because of the Stepien rule that stipulates you can't miss a 1st on consecutive years).
So the Spurs own Charlotte's first next year (protected 1-16 in 2023, 1-14 in 2024 and 1-14 in 2025). If Charlotte traded the range they kept (1-16) to a third team and the 2023 pick went to that other team, that would prevent the Spurs from getting the 2024 pick because of the Stepien rule.
That's the point in a nutshell. But thanks for the clarification.

[cd98]

A couple predictions:

1. Indiana gets Ayton in a sign and trade. Sends Miles Turner to Suns.
2. Durant either gets stuck with Nets or gets traded to Toronto in a package that does not include Scottie Barnes.
3. Miami works a trade to get Mitchell that includes a ton of draft picks and Tyler Herro and Duncan Robinson.
4. Kyrie stays with Nets because there is no way to work a trade to the Lakers.
5. Spurs don't use any meaningful portion of their salary cap during the offseason, including to facilitate a trade, but will keep cap space open and see if something happens during the season.

[Seventyniner]

A couple predictions:

1. Indiana gets Ayton in a sign and trade. Sends Miles Turner to Suns.
2. Durant either gets stuck with Nets or gets traded to Toronto in a package that does not include Scottie Barnes.
3. Miami works a trade to get Mitchell that includes a ton of draft picks and Tyler Herro and Duncan Robinson.
4. Kyrie stays with Nets because there is no way to work a trade to the Lakers.
5. Spurs don't use any meaningful portion of their salary cap during the offseason, including to facilitate a trade, but will keep cap space open and see if something happens during the season.

All quite plausible.

Keeping at least some of the cap space into the season isn't a bad idea. A team with playoff hopes could lose an important player to injury and decide to become a seller, perhaps giving up assets to dump a bad contract.

I don't think it's a good idea to go into the season below the salary floor, though. At least not by an appreciable amount. Doing so and using the cap space in a later trade would amount to a pay cut for every player on the roster, probably pissing them off.

[KobesAchilles]

Minny is beyond dumb for not trading Towns for KD. KD is the way better player and they actually have a rim protector so it covers up his main weakness. I get that Towns is younger but man that’s a shit argument. Towns is an empty stats guy. KD could actually lead them to the WCF next year. Imagine the streamers going off for that. It would be epic

[BacktoBasics]

A couple predictions:

1. Indiana gets Ayton in a sign and trade. Sends Miles Turner to Suns.
2. Durant either gets stuck with Nets or gets traded to Toronto in a package that does not include Scottie Barnes.
3. Miami works a trade to get Mitchell that includes a ton of draft picks and Tyler Herro and Duncan Robinson.
4. Kyrie stays with Nets because there is no way to work a trade to the Lakers.
5. Spurs don't use any meaningful portion of their salary cap during the offseason, including to facilitate a trade, but will keep cap space open and see if something happens during the season.

That Duncan Robinson contract is a nightmare. Deal breakingly bad.

[Ignazzz]

Mitchel will stay in Utah.

[Chinook]

All quite plausible.

Keeping at least some of the cap space into the season isn't a bad idea. A team with playoff hopes could lose an important player to injury and decide to become a seller, perhaps giving up assets to dump a bad contract.

I don't think it's a good idea to go into the season below the salary floor, though. At least not by an appreciable amount. Doing so and using the cap space in a later trade would amount to a pay cut for every player on the roster, probably pissing them off.

It's also important to note that cap space can be used all the way through the next year's draft. So they could use it to complete trades in June rather than waiting until after the moratorium. It could matter if they're looking at a Johnson extension eating into their cap space. A team wouldn't be able to make a trade then to dodge the tax for this season (I think that cutoff is in April), but they could get a jump on the off-season or create an TE to use on another deal without having to worry about finding a team with 2023-2024 cap space.

Cap space does have a shelf life as guys get extensions and contracts increase year by year, but it's certainly not in a "use it or lose it" window this summer.

[DAF86]

Prime Durant could and did 100 percent play SF. I think he's more of a PF now, but his perimeter defense wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal with two mobile bigs behind him. If Holmgren can't play PF in the modern game, it's going to hurt his stock a lot. SGA and Giddy can obviously play their positions. .

Pretty sure he will play C almost exclusively, and that's the position he should play in today's NBA.

[Chinook]

Pretty sure he will play C almost exclusively, and that's the position he should play in today's NBA.

If he can play the four, I don't see why he shouldn't. For all the talk about how GS is doing things, the Celtics showed you can get to the Finals by playing two centers. Holmgren should be able to play that role better than Horford. The actual reason I brought that up was to contrast that with the Thunder paying so much for Mitchell instead. Mitchell wouldn't be a better player for them in a vacuum, and him being way more expensive to acquire than Ayton makes it an obvious choice.

[Dejounte]

Chet’s gonna get busted on his ass if he plays 4 with guys crossing him up daily

then again

he’s gonna get busted on his ass at the 5 too when players like Lofton are straight up too physical for him

[rjv]

Chet’s gonna get busted on his ass if he plays 4 with guys crossing him up daily

then again

he’s gonna get busted on his ass at the 5 too when players like Lofton are straight up too physical for him

embiid, the joker, AD, and the freak are going to eat him up. zion too, if he can stay on the court for more than five minutes (same goes for AD).

[Leetonidas]

I'd bet that Chets defensive shortcomings are being overstated. Yeah he's skinny as fuck now but he's still extremely young. Giannis was a stick too when he was first drafted. He'll bulk up in time. Not like we have tons of physical bigs these days except for a few teams

[Dejounte]

I'd bet that Chets defensive shortcomings are being overstated. Yeah he's skinny as fuck now but he's still extremely young. Giannis was a stick too when he was first drafted. He'll bulk up in time. Not like we have tons of physical bigs these days except for a few teams

Giannis was and always has been agile as fuck though. Chet is like a stick that cant bend his body

[Mr. Body]

I'd bet that Chets defensive shortcomings are being overstated. Yeah he's skinny as fuck now but he's still extremely young. Giannis was a stick too when he was first drafted. He'll bulk up in time. Not like we have tons of physical bigs these days except for a few teams

My feeling is Holmgren will always get dislodged by certain stronger players. His length will bother them, though. I continue to wonder why Presti hasn't gone for some beef somehow, whether in the draft or a bench guy who can really bang bodies. Chet may be good game by game but eventually the wear will get to him.

[Mr. Body]

I'd bet that Chets defensive shortcomings are being overstated. Yeah he's skinny as fuck now but he's still extremely young. Giannis was a stick too when he was first drafted. He'll bulk up in time. Not like we have tons of physical bigs these days except for a few teams

My feeling is Holmgren will always get dislodged by certain stronger players. His length will bother them, though. I continue to wonder why Presti hasn't gone for some beef somehow, whether in the draft or a bench guy who can really bang bodies. Chet may be good game by game but eventually the wear will get to him.

[R. DeMurre]

A couple predictions:

1. Indiana gets Ayton in a sign and trade. Sends Miles Turner to Suns.


This sort of looked like the plan, but Rick Carlisle just gushed in an interview yesterday that Myles Turner was the "best rim-protecting center on the planet," and they just created cap space by trading Brogdon... I wonder if they have some wacky plan for two bigs, using Ayton as a PF. Seems odd, after the Turner/Sabonis pairing didn't work out, but Ayton is on record multiple times saying he thinks PF is his natural position.

[DAF86]

If he can play the four, I don't see why he shouldn't. For all the talk about how GS is doing things, the Celtics showed you can get to the Finals by playing two centers. Holmgren should be able to play that role better than Horford. The actual reason I brought that up was to contrast that with the Thunder paying so much for Mitchell instead. Mitchell wouldn't be a better player for them in a vacuum, and him being way more expensive to acquire than Ayton makes it an obvious choice.

Sure, the Celtics got to the finals playing two "centers" just like the Warriors got to the finals doing the same thing. But when it's crunch time one of those "centers" needs to GTFO or else their team is getting run out of the fucking gym.

[scott]

A couple predictions:

1. Indiana gets Ayton in a sign and trade. Sends Miles Turner to Suns.
2. Durant either gets stuck with Nets or gets traded to Toronto in a package that does not include Scottie Barnes.
3. Miami works a trade to get Mitchell that includes a ton of draft picks and Tyler Herro and Duncan Robinson.
4. Kyrie stays with Nets because there is no way to work a trade to the Lakers.
5. Spurs don't use any meaningful portion of their salary cap during the offseason, including to facilitate a trade, but will keep cap space open and see if something happens during the season.

#5 seems extremely likely. Spurs positioned themselves well to capitalize on their space by facilitating big deals, but it appears there are no big deals in need of facilitation and there are certainly no players to spend the cap space on (and not that we would now that we've suddenly elected to change course and ship out DJ). Our best bet at this point would appear to just be there to absorb bad contracts (like Westbrook or Hayward, though the latter is probably off the table after the Bridges situation).

The summer of cap space with no use.

[baseline bum]

KD is in a bad spot. unlike previous players like harden and nephew, he has way too many years left on his deal. the nets have all the leverage here. fuck KD.

Didn't Paul George have four years left on his deal when he told OKC to trade him to the Clippers?

[Ariel]

This sort of looked like the plan, but Rick Carlisle just gushed in an interview yesterday that Myles Turner was the "best rim-protecting center on the planet," and they just created cap space by trading Brogdon... I wonder if they have some wacky plan for two bigs, using Ayton as a PF. Seems odd, after the Turner/Sabonis pairing didn't work out, but Ayton is on record multiple times saying he thinks PF is his natural position.
In that same interview he also went on to praise Jalen Smith... I doubt they will keep all of them in 2022... but maybe he's just pumping Myles Turner to up his price? Would make sense that they'd try to use him to get more assets. I was surprised at how forthcoming he was about the rebuilding process. Hope Sabonis wasn't watching :lol

[Ariel]

My feeling is Holmgren will always get dislodged by certain stronger players. His length will bother them, though. I continue to wonder why Presti hasn't gone for some beef somehow, whether in the draft or a bench guy who can really bang bodies. Chet may be good game by game but eventually the wear will get to him.
I think OKC will be forced to make adjustments to make better use of Chet, but they seem to be stockpiling lanky but versatile wings and bigs, so maybe that's their plan.

[Mr. Body]

I think OKC will be forced to make adjustments to make better use of Chet, but they seem to be stockpiling lanky but versatile wings and bigs, so maybe that's their plan.

I also don't think Presti has any intention of competing any time soon. The team doesn't look much better than last year, despite the high profile additions, and competing might require adding good vets. I'm convinced he's addicted to the draft process and/or is trying to recreate the Durant/Westbrook/Harden magic, which he certainly hasn't done.

[Ariel]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10041885-inside-the-trade-market-for-utah-jazz-star-donovan-mitchell
https://hoopshype.com/2022/07/13/jazz-have-explored-sign-and-trade-for-collin-sexton-talks-involving-mike-conley/

Like the Rockets before them, the Jazz remain engaged in various trade conversations to retool around Mitchell. Utah has explored a sign-and-trade scenario that would send veteran point guard Mike Conley to Cleveland in exchange for restricted free agent Collin Sexton, sources said. (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10041885-inside-the-trade-market-for-utah-jazz-star-donovan-mitchell) The Cavaliers wouldn’t appear to have a need for an additional point guard, and it seems unlikely that Conley would be the returning player Cleveland would prioritize if talks ever gained legitimate traction.
If anybody had any doubts, Utah is 100% rebuilding... Donovan Mitchell will be traded sooner rather than later.

[Ariel]

I also don't think Presti has any intention of competing any time soon. The team doesn't look much better than last year, despite the high profile additions, and competing might require adding good vets. I'm convinced he's addicted to the draft process and/or is trying to recreate the Durant/Westbrook/Harden magic, which he certainly hasn't done.
100% agree. It is almost pathological at this point.

[R. DeMurre]

it's funny how much of Presti's reputation lies in the Durant/Westbrook/Harden picks, and the Durant pick was pretty much a no-brainer. If Portland had selected Durant, Seattle almost certainly would've picked Oden with the #2 pick, and the entire narrative would be very different.

[Seventyniner]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10041885-inside-the-trade-market-for-utah-jazz-star-donovan-mitchell
https://hoopshype.com/2022/07/13/jazz-have-explored-sign-and-trade-for-collin-sexton-talks-involving-mike-conley/

If anybody had any doubts, Utah is 100% rebuilding... Donovan Mitchell will be traded sooner rather than later.

If the Jazz really are interested in Sexton, that means they're not tearing it all down Thunder-style. With all the assets they got for Gobert, they have some to spare. The Spurs would be willing to absorb Conley's contract for the right price.

[Thomas82]

A couple predictions:

1. Indiana gets Ayton in a sign and trade. Sends Miles Turner to Suns.
2. Durant either gets stuck with Nets or gets traded to Toronto in a package that does not include Scottie Barnes.
3. Miami works a trade to get Mitchell that includes a ton of draft picks and Tyler Herro and Duncan Robinson.
4. Kyrie stays with Nets because there is no way to work a trade to the Lakers.
5. Spurs don't use any meaningful portion of their salary cap during the offseason, including to facilitate a trade, but will keep cap space open and see if something happens during the season.

1, 4, and 5 all seem likely to me.

[Kevin]

If the Jazz really are interested in Sexton, that means they're not tearing it all down Thunder-style. With all the assets they got for Gobert, they have some to spare. The Spurs would be willing to absorb Conley's contract for the right price.

That's pretty realistic that the Cavs wouldn't want the Conley deal coming back. Spurs might have an opening there.

[Kevin]

Plus Conley's contact is only partially guaranteed in the last year for 14.3 million dollars.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

In the NCAAs this March teams wore down Chet by putting bodies on him constantly. Basically body blows to the lower trunk all game on him and that was that.

Will be interested to see how or if he adjusts when the NBA regular season starts.

[Mugen]

I'd take Conley's contract for a first rounder tbh. I wouldn't even mind if he played the upcoming season with us. Good vet, always seemed "Spurs-y"....

He'd probably ask for a buyout though. Either way, could be an easy way to nab one of those Utah picks.

[The Truth #6]

it's funny how much of Presti's reputation lies in the Durant/Westbrook/Harden picks, and the Durant pick was pretty much a no-brainer. If Portland had selected Durant, Seattle almost certainly would've picked Oden with the #2 pick, and the entire narrative would be very different.

In weak defense of Presti, wasn’t he the one pushing Pop to draft Tony?

[Dejounte]

In weak defense of Presti, wasn’t he the one pushing Pop to draft Tony?

So he’s right 2 times out of 20. Doesnt sound that great to me.

[Dverde]

I'd take Conley's contract for a first rounder tbh. I wouldn't even mind if he played the upcoming season with us. Good vet, always seemed "Spurs-y"....

He'd probably ask for a buyout though. Either way, could be an easy way to nab one of those Utah picks.

Just toss us one of those T-Wolves picks. They should have never gotten most of them in the first place.

[The Truth #6]

So he’s right 2 times out of 20. Doesnt sound that great to me.

Three, if you count your guy, J Will, right? :bobo

[Ariel]

it's funny how much of Presti's reputation lies in the Durant/Westbrook/Harden picks, and the Durant pick was pretty much a no-brainer. If Portland had selected Durant, Seattle almost certainly would've picked Oden with the #2 pick, and the entire narrative would be very different.
Definitely, anyone with half a brain would have drafted Durant. Harden and Westbrook he deserves SOME credit, but he's living off that stretch for a decade and a half, and he's missed a whole bunch of picks as well. Great at making deals, but definitely overrated as a talent evaluator.

[Mr. Body]

Just toss us one of those T-Wolves picks. They should have never gotten most of them in the first place.

Utah is Danny Ainge now. Like with Boston, he won a massive trade but will probably ruin things again by trying to win every trade by 150% and never make use of the assets he has. The next generation of Romeo Langford incoming.

[jjspur]

In the NCAAs this March teams wore down Chet by putting bodies on him constantly. Basically body blows to the lower trunk all game on him and that was that.

Will be interested to see how or if he adjusts when the NBA regular season starts.

I have to admit that Chet can shoot & he can certainly block/alter shots, but can he take a pounding from big centers or power forwards ? I wouldn't bet the farm on that.

Can you imagine Karl Malone vs. Chet. Now that would be fun to watch. Chet would be shooting 3's all night long but one good elbow or bump from Karl and Chet would have something broken. Not sure he lasts the whole season

[Ariel]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1547425333430743040
https://theathletic.com/3422434/2022/07/13/donovan-mitchell-knicks-jazz/

The Jazz and Knicks have started discussions on a Donovan Mitchell trade, sources tell me and @Tjonesonthenba (https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba). New York has Utah’s focus currently, among interested teams.
Saw that coming a mile away

[itzsoweezee]

I have to admit that Chet can shoot & he can certainly block/alter shots, but can he take a pounding from big centers or power forwards ? I wouldn't bet the farm on that.

Can you imagine Karl Malone vs. Chet. Now that would be fun to watch. Chet would be shooting 3's all night long but one good elbow or bump from Karl and Chet would have something broken. Not sure he lasts the whole season

Chet doesn’t need to do that. No one plays through the post anymore (except for maybe Embiid, but no one’s stopping Embiid anyway). This isn’t the ultra physical NBA anymore. Chet can survive (probably excel) just fine as a help defender.

[Mr. Body]

Chet doesn’t need to do that. No one plays through the post anymore (except for maybe Embiid, but no one’s stopping Embiid anyway). This isn’t the ultra physical NBA anymore. Chet can survive (probably excel) just fine as a help defender.

The point is that Presti has failed to get any good post defenders, making Chet the post defender. I don't see Robinson-Earle or anyone else able to guard Jokic or Embiid.

[bluebellmaniac]

I have to admit that Chet can shoot & he can certainly block/alter shots, but can he take a pounding from big centers or power forwards ? I wouldn't bet the farm on that.

Can you imagine Karl Malone vs. Chet. Now that would be fun to watch. Chet would be shooting 3's all night long but one good elbow or bump from Karl and Chet would have something broken. Not sure he lasts the whole season

Of course he can't take a pounding, he's like only 150 lbs. But he's going to do everything asked of him, including eating, drinking, working out, etc and he's going to gain weight while becoming even better at what he does. Don't think we would have passed on him because he isn't already 250 lbs.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

The point is that Presti has failed to get any good post defenders, making Chet the post defender. I don't see Robinson-Earle or anyone else able to guard Jokic or Embiid.
He will play only 2 games a year against Embiid

[CGD]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1547425333430743040
https://theathletic.com/3422434/2022/07/13/donovan-mitchell-knicks-jazz/

Saw that coming a mile away

Yup, it’s been NYK’s wet dream for some time but wow what a tiny backcourt that’d be.

Could see us being a dumping ground for Fournier and/or Rose which are the natural fits to match Mitchell’s 30M salary.

[John B]

Yup, it’s been NYK’s wet dream for some time but wow what a tiny backcourt that’d be.

Could see us being a dumping ground for Fournier and/or Rose which are the natural fits to match Mitchell’s 30M salary.

Boy I hate this rebuilding :( That cap space could easily be Simmons instead.

[exstatic]

Boy I hate this rebuilding :( That cap space could easily be Simmons instead.

Unfortunately, that’s counter productive to a rebuild. It would be different if he were a #1 option, but he’s not.

Players OUT, picks IN.

Players IN, picks IN. (Cap space rental).

[itzsoweezee]

The point is that Presti has failed to get any good post defenders, making Chet the post defender. I don't see Robinson-Earle or anyone else able to guard Jokic or Embiid.

So? They’re not trying to compete for a championship. They’re a rebuilding team gathering assets. No one in their right mind is spending a lottery pick on a post defender

[Mr. Body]

So? They’re not trying to compete for a championship. They’re a rebuilding team gathering assets. No one in their right mind is spending a lottery pick on a post defender

I missed the part where he's acquired any size whatsoever.

[exstatic]

I missed the part where he's acquired any size whatsoever.

Still a lottery team. Still not competing. Still not constructing a team. They’re swinging for the fences, over and over, looking to find a super star. When they find one, then they will start acquiring the pieces needed to put a complete well rounded team on the floor.

[BatManu20]

First domino falls.

1547656790606635008

[Ariel]

Spurs cap space just became more valuable

[Kevin]

First domino falls.

1547656790606635008

Jak to the Suns for the Saric expiring plus a 2024 1st round pick top 5 protected.

[Ariel]

Jak to the Suns for the Saric expiring plus a 2024 1st round pick top 5 protected.
Not enough. That pick is 2 years away and likely in the mid 20s.

[exstatic]

Spurs cap space just became more valuable

No. There can be no trade with Indiana until next summer now. PHO has only two options now: match, or let him walk. Our capspace is neither more nor less valuable because of this transaction. PHO can still trade him to one of 27 teams in December. I’m assuming we’re not interested, because we had the assets, and didn’t pull the trigger.

[Kevin]

Not enough. That pick is 2 years away and likely in the mid 20s.

Paul could easily fall off by then making that pick pretty sweet. Its a boom bust deal for both teams.

[Ariel]

No. There can be no trade with Indiana until next summer now. PHO has only two options now: match, or let him walk. Our capspace is neither more nor less valuable because of this transaction. PHO can still trade him to one of 27 teams in December. I’m assuming we’re not interested, because we had the assets, and didn’t pull the trigger.
That's not what I meant, but that there is ONE LESS team with available cap space for any OTHER transaction, should anyone need it. Less teams offering cap space, more valuable it becomes.

[Ariel]

Paul could easily fall off by then making that pick pretty sweet. Its a boom bust deal for both teams.
Even so, they're far from a lottery team. They're the ones in a tough spot, the Spurs can wait for a better offer, extend Poeltl, wait until the trade deadline... no need to hurry.

[Kevin]

Even so, they're far from a lottery team. They're the ones in a tough spot, the Spurs can wait for a better offer, extend Poeltl, wait until the trade deadline... no need to hurry.

They just lost Ayton and if Paul falls off that pick could easily be pretty high. Spurs would probably want the pick to be unprotected which the Suns just might do.

[Chinook]

Good that Phoenix can't do a trade using Ayton nor take Turner back easily. Bad that Turner is certainly available now to compete with Poeltl.

[Degoat]

Good that Phoenix can't do a trade using Ayton nor take Turner back easily. Bad that Turner is certainly available now to compete with Poeltl.

I saw somewhere that the offer sheet isn’t official until midnight tonight so they could agree to sign & trade in the next few hours. But with this dragging out so long I’m sure they had conversations and the pacers/Ayton were probably ready to move on

[Ariel]

Good that Phoenix can't do a trade using Ayton nor take Turner back easily. Bad that Turner is certainly available now to compete with Poeltl.
Yes, but I think he's the last viable alternative to Poeltl. Even if he's before Jakob in the pecking order, once he's gone (because he went to some team) Jakob becomes the next most valuable center for any team looking for an upgrade, IMO. And I doubt Phoenix would like to deal with Indiana, if they lose Ayton to them. So Toronto, Chicago, Phoenix, whomever still needs a center (or any opening due to injury) should generate demand for Poetl, which so far seems to only be opportunistic (only if the price is low).

[KingKev]

They just lost Ayton and if Paul falls off that pick could easily be pretty high. Spurs would probably want the pick to be unprotected which the Suns just might do.

They have 48 hours to match and are expected to.

[Leetonidas]

Sounds like Suns initially had no interest in paying that max, so it's weird now that Woj is implying that will match it. If they match it they can't trade him til Jan 15th, and he has veto power on any trade for a year. Be interesting to see how this plays out

[DPG21920]

Sounds like Suns initially had no interest in paying that max, so it's weird now that Woj is implying that will match it. If they match it they can't trade him til Jan 15th, and he has veto power on any trade for a year. Be interesting to see how this plays out

An max offer from INDY is still much less than max PHX could have offered so maybe thats what they were aiming for the entire time.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Indeed Phoenix didn’t want to give him the 5th year and this works ok for them. They’ll match, then see what they can do about the locker room relationships. Will definitely be awkward.

Good news is Indiana and Ayton have revived free agency after KD shot it in the head.

[CGD]

An max offer from INDY is still much less than max PHX could have offered so maybe thats what they were aiming for the entire time.

Good point. And I believe it’s not inconsequential: 5% raises v 8%, and possibility of a 5th year

[KingKev]

Funny how many dumbasses on this board didn’t think Ayton would get the max.

I’m glad it wasn’t us that offered him it but anyone with half a brain knew he was getting that eventually.

[CGD]

First domino falls.

1547656790606635008

Maybe more like the last? Sexton signing the QO was the last “big” piece.

KD, Irving, Mitchell can happen really any time, if they do at all.

[rascal]

I expect the Suns will match. They were a contender last year and don't want to lose him for nothing. If it doens't work out they'll trade him during the season.

[TD 21]

Can't imagine the Suns won't match or work out a sign and trade for Turner.

If Mitchell get's traded to the Knicks and the Pelicans supposedly won't part with Ingram for now, if the Nets have any sense they take Durant and Irving into the season.

They shouldn't even consider the agenda driven national media's wet dream of settling for Craptors garbage.

[tonight...you]

Funny how many dumbasses on this board didn’t think Ayton would get the max.

I’m glad it wasn’t us that offered him it but anyone with half a brain knew he was getting that eventually.
I always got the impression that most of us knew that the Suns didn't want to sign him to THEIR max with the 8 percenters and the 5th year.
They'd be cool with matching another team's max, on the other hand, which is much cheaper and easier to trade/handle.

Maybe I'm wrong.

[Mugen]

Suns definitely match, but the Ayton veto clause has to really screw up their plans, both immediate and long-term.

If I'm Brooklyn, I sit tight on the two divas.

One month into the regular season w/ Westbrook, and the Lakers are definitely upping their offer tbh :lol

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1509990164415893517/qIuzsMq6_normal.jpg
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn)2m (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1547737806402834432)
As soon as the Suns received the four-year, $133M offer sheet, the franchise matched it. Deandre Ayton returns to Phoenix and can't be traded without his consent for a full year.

[CGD]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1509990164415893517/qIuzsMq6_normal.jpg
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn)2m (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1547737806402834432)
As soon as the Suns received the four-year, $133M offer sheet, the franchise matched it. Deandre Ayton returns to Phoenix and can't be traded without his consent for a full year.

Man, even at the lower contract amount that is still one EXPENSIVE roster. If Cam Johnson blows up next year, for example, they'll likely have to let him walk in RFA.

[Dejounte]

Boring offseason tbh

[tonight...you]

Boring offseason tbh
Wait till Durant and maybe Kyrie get dealt with.
If they get dealt with.

[Leetonidas]

Smart to not let him leave for nothing but still kinda surprised cheap ass Sarver actually matched

[mo7888]

So the next Sun related question is..Will Sarver pay the tax or move players to get under?

[rascal]

So the next Sun related question is..Will Sarver pay the tax or move players to get under?

They won't break up their core. If players are moved it won't be their top guys.

They were bad and hit the bottom and now finally they have a contending team so they aren't in a hurry to break that up.

[Ariel]

Smart to not let him leave for nothing but still kinda surprised cheap ass Sarver actually matched
Same. They couldn't afford to lose him for nothing, but I really thought Sarver might just let him go rather than taking on that contract and luxury tax implications.

[CGD]

So the next Sun related question is..Will Sarver pay the tax or move players to get under?

How much do they have to cut, as far as you understand?

[RC_Drunkford]

How much do they have to cut, as far as you understand?

15 million

[mo7888]

They won't break up their core. If players are moved it won't be their top guys.

They were bad and hit the bottom and now finally they have a contending team so they aren't in a hurry to break that up.

I figure Saric and Crowder are the main guys they would dump if they want to get under the tax..

[mo7888]

How much do they have to cut, as far as you understand?

Between $15 and $20M

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1509990164415893517/qIuzsMq6_normal.jpg
Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn)9m (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1547755783248482305)
Free agent guard Austin Rivers has agreed on a one-year deal with the Minnesota Timberwolves, his agents Dave Spahn and Aaron Mintz of CAA Sports tell ESPN. Rivers played 67 games for Denver a year ago, where new president Tim Connelly signed him in consecutive seasons.

[talkspurs]

If we take on their players would you rather have a nearer pick or a further pick. I think I would want further away something alont 26 or 27. With us having cash and thinking we will go into season with lots of cap space we might be able t push for 2 especially if we put some protections on it.

[MannyIsGod]

Funny how many dumbasses on this board didn’t think Ayton would get the max.

I’m glad it wasn’t us that offered him it but anyone with half a brain knew he was getting that eventually.

That's a glass house you're throwing rocks from. Didn't you have some mo Bamba predictions? Lol

[Mr. Body]

And so the dullest FA 'where will he sign' saga comes to a dull, expected end. We can go back to essentially forgetting Ayton is in the league.

[Chinook]

Takes Phoenix out of the center market and probably forces Indy to move Turner, lowering the value for all centers. Unless Toronto just doesn't want Turner, he makes more sense for their team than Poeltl. I don't see a lot of good options, at least right now. Maybe Poeltl gets moved in a money-saving trade from another team. In terms of 2023 picks, so many of them have been traded away already, and many teams that seem to have them have 2024 picks compromised. The Spurs might have to wait into the season to see if some teams' circumstances change

[Atl Spur]

Why we rushing to move poodle so fast again? Isn’t he worth 14-16 on the open market?

[CGD]

Why we rushing to move poodle so fast again? Isn’t he worth 14-16 on the open market?

At this point, I'm inclined to extend Jakob and assess his market next summer (my understanding from this board is that he's not eligible to be extended in time to make him moveable by the Feb 2023 deadline). If I'm another team I'd be hesitant to give up too much for an expiring deal notwithstanding acquiring his Byrd Rights, etc.

For better of worse, Mitchell Robinson's is probably the marker contract. It's 60M over 4 years, but what I thought was interesting was that it was descending.

[CGD]

I figure Saric and Crowder are the main guys they would dump if they want to get under the tax..

Makes sense, though, i'm sure theyd be thrilled to move on from Shatmat.

[CGD]

Takes Phoenix out of the center market and probably forces Indy to move Turner, lowering the value for all centers. Unless Toronto just doesn't want Turner, he makes more sense for their team than Poeltl. I don't see a lot of good options, at least right now. Maybe Poeltl gets moved in a money-saving trade from another team. In terms of 2023 picks, so many of them have been traded away already, and many teams that seem to have them have 2024 picks compromised. The Spurs might have to wait into the season to see if some teams' circumstances change

Not sure i follow on why Turner has to be moved if they missed on Ayton.

[Degoat]

Late night thoughts, Hot take… if guys like Keldon, Dev, Tre, and Primo do indeed come back improved I could see us still wining 30-35 games lol I think having size in Roby and Sochan will make a major impact to the team

[Mr. Body]

Late night thoughts, Hot take… if guys like Keldon, Dev, Tre, and Primo do indeed come back improved I could see us still wining 30-35 games lol I think having size in Roby and Sochan will make a major impact to the team

The Spurs have only lost Murray and Walker. Walker is a non-issue. Murray is a big loss, but not irreplaceable.

[Mr. Body]

Ayton back to Phoenix.

Durant and Irving likely staying at Brooklyn.

Not much else left, is there? Ainge trying to fleece NYK for Donovan Mitchell.

Where does the Spurs' cap room come in?

[ducks]

Patience

[John B]

The Spurs have only lost Murray and Walker. Walker is a non-issue. Murray is a big loss, but not irreplaceable.

Not a popular view here, but DJ is somewhat a "system player." I'm saying that because every time Tre starts for DJ, Tre gets almost the same stat. The only thing is DJ gambles for steals, but Tre is the better lockdown defender.

[exstatic]

Takes Phoenix out of the center market and probably forces Indy to move Turner, lowering the value for all centers. Unless Toronto just doesn't want Turner, he makes more sense for their team than Poeltl. I don't see a lot of good options, at least right now. Maybe Poeltl gets moved in a money-saving trade from another team. In terms of 2023 picks, so many of them have been traded away already, and many teams that seem to have them have 2024 picks compromised. The Spurs might have to wait into the season to see if some teams' circumstances change

Why are they forced to move Turner? Why would they even want to? You do understand that they whiffed on Ayton, right?

[exstatic]

Makes sense, though, i'm sure theyd be thrilled to move on from Shatmat.

Spurs likely wouldn’t be interested in Shamat, and his remaining 3 years.

[KingKev]

That's a glass house you're throwing rocks from. Didn't you have some mo Bamba predictions? Lol

I said I thought he could be had cheap and thought his market was around the MLE.

[CGD]

Spurs likely wouldn’t be interested in Shamat, and his remaining 3 years.

It appears he can be waived after year 2, so effectively just two more years left on it.

[exstatic]

Ayton back to Phoenix.

Durant and Irving likely staying at Brooklyn.

Not much else left, is there? Ainge trying to fleece NYK for Donovan Mitchell.

Where does the Spurs' cap room come in?

Ainge was basically asking for all of NY’s young talent AND 6 SRPs and SRP swaps.

[CGD]

Ainge was basically asking for all of NY’s young talent AND 6 SRPs and SRP swaps.

Yeah, Knicks gonna Knick, but I’m then I’d let Utah sit a while so they can internalize some of the internal awkwardness of dealing with an unhappy Mitchell.

[Seventyniner]

Ainge was basically asking for all of NY’s young talent AND 6 SRPs and SRP swaps.

iirc the Knicks gave up what was then considered to be a king's ransom for Carmelo. And their ownership hasn't changed. I wouldn't be surprised to see them overpay for Mitchell.

I take it you meant FRP and not SRP, but I hope the Knicks aren't that stupid.

[Mnky]

Not a popular view here, but DJ is somewhat a "system player." I'm saying that because every time Tre starts for DJ, Tre gets almost the same stat. The only thing is DJ gambles for steals, but Tre is the better lockdown defender.

Rebound stats were also inflated last year for thw wings with no PF on the team.

[Fireball]

Not a popular view here, but DJ is somewhat a "system player." I'm saying that because every time Tre starts for DJ, Tre gets almost the same stat. The only thing is DJ gambles for steals, but Tre is the better lockdown defender.

in his 11 starts Tre Jones averaged 13.5 Pts, 4.6 Reb, 7.5 Ast, 1.1 Stl, and has a plus/minus of -28 ... you are right, we should have traded him to Atlanta

[Degoat]

No DJ hate but he kinda was a fake all star tbh lol there were so many guys out this past year that would have been an all star ahead of him

[DAF86]

If I'm the Nuggets, I would be offering Michael Porter Jr. and as many first round picks it takes to get Durant.

Jokic, Durant and Murray is a championship level team.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

If I'm the Nuggets, I would be offering Michael Porter Jr. and as many first round picks it takes to get Durant.

Jokic, Durant and Murray is a championship level team.

Nuggets don't have a single pick they can trade.

[DAF86]

Nuggets don't have a single pick they can trade.

They don't? Where did the fuck them up? Getting Gordon? That sucks for them if true, tbh. :lol

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

They don't? Where did the fuck them up? Getting Gordon? That sucks for them if true, tbh. :lol

OKC had their lottery protected 2023 first and it was one of the 3 picks traded for Dieng. It ended up with Charlotte in the Duren trade. 2025 first goes to Orlando from the Gordon trade if they convey their pick to Charlotte this season and 2 years after that they owe a pick to OKC again from the JaMychal Green salary dump.

[DAF86]

OKC had their lottery protected 2023 first and it was one of the 3 picks traded for Dieng. It ended up with Charlotte in the Duren trade. 2025 first goes to Orlando from the Gordon trade if they convey their pick to Charlotte this season and 2 years after that they owe a pick to OKC again from the JaMychal Green salary dump.

So they still have 2024 and 2026 picks, right? Or they can't trade those? If I'm the Nuggets, I'm trading them. It's worth the gamble.

[exstatic]

iirc the Knicks gave up what was then considered to be a king's ransom for Carmelo. And their ownership hasn't changed. I wouldn't be surprised to see them overpay for Mitchell.

I take it you meant FRP and not SRP, but I hope the Knicks aren't that stupid.

So far, they’ve declined at that price.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

So they still have 2024 and 2026 picks, right? Or they can't trade those? If I'm the Nuggets, I'm trading them. It's worth the gamble.

They can't - Stepien rule.

[exstatic]

If I'm the Nuggets, I would be offering Michael Porter Jr. and as many first round picks it takes to get Durant.

Jokic, Durant and Murray is a championship level team.

I don’t think you can find a team outside of Denver who would pay SuperMax for a player with two back surgeries and seasons of zero and nine games played before age 24.

[offset formation]

I don’t think you can find a team outside of Denver who would pay SuperMax for a player with two back surgeries and seasons of zero and nine games played before age 24.

Contract ain't looking so good now and might be the one reason Jokic never rings. DAF86 is spot on though, Durant, Jokic, and a healthy Murray would be about as nasty a trio as the NBA has had since our Big 3, which was arguably one of the best ever.

[Seventyniner]

Does anyone have access to this ESPN+ article about the recent rash of future pick trades?

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/34245668/lowe-why-kevin-durant-donovan-mitchell-mega-deals-expand-unprecedented-nba-trend

The part I could read looks like the rest is interesting. Most of the league overvalued firsts for a long time, now the pendulum is swinging the other way for a few teams.

[Mr. Body]

Does anyone have access to this ESPN+ article about the recent rash of future pick trades?

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/insider/story/_/id/34245668/lowe-why-kevin-durant-donovan-mitchell-mega-deals-expand-unprecedented-nba-trend

The part I could read looks like the rest is interesting. Most of the league overvalued firsts for a long time, now the pendulum is swinging the other way for a few teams.

I've mentioned somewhere else -- there's a weird thing happening that this article may get into. It's hard to put my finger on it, but it's a accumulation of how the draft has gotten younger, the league has gone toward development, a lack of truly exceptional teams leading to more top-level parity, the Stepien rule, teams reluctant to trade (or trade for) established players, a free agent market that has gotten drier and drier.

It's hard to know what to make of it, but there's an ongoing shift in the draft and trades.

[mo7888]

So they still have 2024 and 2026 picks, right? Or they can't trade those? If I'm the Nuggets, I'm trading them. It's worth the gamble.

They could offer unprotected pick swaps in 24,26,and 28 and an unprotected first in 29..

[exstatic]

Contract ain't looking so good now and might be the one reason Jokic never rings. DAF86 is spot on though, Durant, Jokic, and a healthy Murray would be about as nasty a trio as the NBA has had since our Big 3, which was arguably one of the best ever.

Oh, I agree that trio would be fairly lethal. I just don’t see any path for Denver putting that together. None.

[tonight...you]

They could offer unprotected pick swaps in 24,26,and 28 and an unprotected first in 29..
No. No they can't per the Stepien rule.

[exstatic]

No. No they can't per the Stepien rule.

In this case, it’s actually not the Stepien rule. It’s the fact that those Denver traded FRPs in 2025 and 2027 have 3 years protections, each. The 2027 pick is so fluid, it may not start clocking until 2029 and for 3 years subsequent if the 2025 pick is slow in conveying.

You can’t do a pick swap in 2026 or 2028 when there’s a protection flow over on that year already.

[tonight...you]

In this case, it’s actually not the Stepien rule. It’s the fact that those Denver traded FRPs in 2025 and 2027 have 3 years protections, each. The 2027 pick is so fluid, it may not start clocking until 2029 and for 3 years subsequent if the 2025 pick is slow in conveying.

You can’t do a pick swap in 2026 or 2028 when there’s a protection flow over on that year already.
Thank you for the correction.
That's what I meant, but I erroneously stated the Stepien rule.

[Seventyniner]

Poeltl will most likely command a contract starting above the MLE next season. That means there could be value to the Spurs keeping him into the season: either a team will be willing to pay up for him at the trade deadline to make a playoff push (looking at Toronto, assuming they don't address their C position in the offseason), or the Spurs can sign-and-trade him to an over-the-cap team that otherwise couldn't afford him in free agency. That team could send a pick back as compensation for them getting a player they otherwise couldn't.

[tonight...you]

Poeltl will most likely command a contract starting above the MLE next season. That means there could be value to the Spurs keeping him into the season: either a team will be willing to pay up for him at the trade deadline to make a playoff push (looking at Toronto, assuming they don't address their C position in the offseason), or the Spurs can sign-and-trade him to an over-the-cap team that otherwise couldn't afford him in free agency. That team could send a pick back as compensation for them getting a player they otherwise couldn't.
I like Poeltl and want to keep the guy, but he could end up being a win-win-win situation, if the cards are played right.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1436503855861276680/8qzEXb9B_normal.jpg
Shams Charania ShamsCharania
(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)2m (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1548372730667417602)
Minnesota Timberwolves No. 45 pick Josh Minott has agreed to a four-year, $6.8 million rookie deal, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).

[Ariel]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1436503855861276680/8qzEXb9B_normal.jpg
Shams Charania (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)Sham (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17672)sCharania
2m (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1548372730667417602)
Minnesota Timberwolves No. 45 pick Josh Minott has agreed to a four-year, $6.8 million rookie deal, sources tell @TheAthletic (https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/) @Stadium (https://twitter.com/Stadium/).
Yeah, another one. Lots of interesting second rounders this draft. Lots of people said it was a sh1tty draft because it lacked the hype some other classes have at the top... but I think a lot f good players will come out of it even far into the 2nd round. Kennedy Chandler, Bryce McGowens, EJ Liddell (unfortunately tore his ACL), Josh Minnott, Kamagate, Kendall Brown... Don't get me wrong, I love the draft we had & the Barlow pickup, but I just won't be able to help feeling a bit uneasy if one of them pans out.

[Degoat]

Would be Hilarious if the spurs traded for Westbrook then made the playoffs over the lakers tbh lol

[heyheymymy]

Yeah Minott was one I really liked and with the Spurs said to have worked him out twice iirc at the time made me think he was targeted. Mocked him up at 25 even at one point pre draft due to some hype. Was surprised when 38 came up and we dumped it because there were some gems still avail and we already had done so well, like why not add to the horde?

Spurs knew what they were doing I guess. Same thing with Days. I mean, Spurs could've offered if they wanted to? Maybe Days didn't say yes? Spurs also could've picked at #38, no one forced them not to. So SA either didn't like the players, the players didn't like them, or the team thought they had what they needed or all they could handle.

Just kinda tired of the narrative every time it doesn't work out that the Spurs are bumbling or let one slip away.

Brian Wright knows what a phone is, he has the numbers, he makes the calls. It's just not a Hollywood movie. In real life you might get ready but sometimes it never comes. I'd rather be positioned with flexibility when the sucker deal comes out of another team's desperation or some churro loving prized FA wants in for some reason than to get that chance and be caught with your pants down, lacking on the financial or otherwise team flexibility to make it happen. Sometimes no news is good news. Means Wright is playing it tight and holding his cards close to the chest. Good deals don't come along often, that's why they are good deals. So the disciplined team that resists bad trades ends up not making many moves at all. Same people complaining pick up the phone Brian would also complain at lateral moves just for the sake of doin deals.

[BackHome]

I wonder if the asking prices for Kyrie is to high for Flakers and if we can just do a trade for Westbrick straight up for a unprotected first. Would that then give them cap room to say go after someone like Sexton?

[Mr. Body]

Yeah Minott was one I really liked and with the Spurs said to have worked him out twice iirc at the time made me think he was targeted. Mocked him up at 25 even at one point pre draft due to some hype. Was surprised when 38 came up and we dumped it because there were some gems still avail and we already had done so well, like why not add to the horde?

Spurs knew what they were doing I guess. Same thing with Days. I mean, Spurs could've offered if they wanted to? Maybe Days didn't say yes? Spurs also could've picked at #38, no one forced them not to. So SA either didn't like the players, the players didn't like them, or the team thought they had what they needed or all they could handle.

Just kinda tired of the narrative every time it doesn't work out that the Spurs are bumbling or let one slip away.

Brian Wright knows what a phone is, he has the numbers, he makes the calls. It's just not a Hollywood movie. In real life you might get ready but sometimes it never comes. I'd rather be positioned with flexibility when the sucker deal comes out of another team's desperation or some churro loving prized FA wants in for some reason than to get that chance and be caught with your pants down, lacking on the financial or otherwise team flexibility to make it happen. Sometimes no news is good news. Means Wright is playing it tight and holding his cards close to the chest. Good deals don't come along often, that's why they are good deals. So the disciplined team that resists bad trades ends up not making many moves at all. Same people complaining pick up the phone Brian would also complain at lateral moves just for the sake of doin deals.

It's impossible to get every player. Clearly the Spurs valued Branham and Wesley higher than Minott, and it's not a hard pick. He was not good in college, while the other two were. Minott did well in summer league, but it's a setting made for athletes. By many accounts he struggled with rotations and common, everyday team basketball at Memphis, which is why he wasn't played very often. He'd blow up defensive sets because he didn't know what to do. This isn't anything against him; it just means he's more of a project. In the big league it may be a while before teams don't feast on him.

Days... It happens. He's hardly a sure-fire hit and Barlow was the player the team took. We also picked up Roby, who has proven he can actually play in the NBA already.

If the Spurs are looking for a player at this point, it's not a big, it's a point guard.

[heyheymymy]

And with the acquisition of Roby, Spurs really don't need a Minott type development project anymore. Plus concerns I had of being a product of that program and the red flags associated. Pre draft was a different perspective for sure and Minott was trending. Hindsight can clarify a lot lol.

Not sure if SA knew that Roby was a possibility but between Roby and Barlow that role is better tended to in the end anyway. So it all works out, except that PG you mentioned, which could've been Kennedy Chandler but I wan't totally enamored with that project either. He was 3ast/6to ratio today. But 10/4/3 overall, just good enough to give you fear of missing out but maybe the point guard version of the "Roby solution" looms just ahead too then?

[mystargtr34]

I also think the Roby pickup was the reason the Spurs decided against signing Days. You already have Sochan, Roby, KBD at the 4 spot and Keldon can play it too. Without Roby I think the Spurs sign Days.

I still would have signed Days to the two-way anyway with Barlow as the other 2-way and promoted Weiskamp to a full deal. Surely by now the Spurs know if they have something in Wieskamp.

[Big Empty]

Im just curious. What happens to all money not being used? $30 million in cap space, Does it go back to the Spurs owners (money saved) or the NBA? I ask simply because attendance is low these days. Could this also be killing two birds with one stone? We rebuild and the Spurs owners take less of a hit to the pocket while we’re in rebuuld with low attendance? With all the Spurs moving to Austin talk in a few years it just makes me wonder. Assuming the Spurs owners save or pay that money, would the Spurs owners want to pay $30 million for 1 future first round pick taking on Westbrocks contract? Im guessing it takes 10 home games to generate $30 Million in revenue. Im just thinking of this from a prespective of keeping the Spurs in San Antonio.

[JeffDuncan]

Im just curious. What happens to all money not being used? $30 million in cap space, Does it go back to the Spurs owners (money saved) or the NBA? ...


The salary cap amount is not real money, it’s only the result of a calculation. It tells the owners how much they can spend on player salaries (without resorting to special rules.)

The owner is required to spend 90% of the salary cap amount on player salaries, as a condition of keeping the franchise. The players’ union demanded that, and got it, years ago.

Cap space is the amount the owner could have spent on player salaries, but did not. It represents money the owner still has, or at least, that he hasn’t spent on player salaries. So as you mention, it’s money saved by the owner.

The guys who talk about moving the Spurs seem to think the move would be free. I guess they think U-Haul would donate the trucks, the community would donate their time to load the trucks, Volaro would donate the gas, the Spurs would drive the trucks themselves, and away they’d go, to play in a public park somewhere. Sure. You bet.

It could easily cost as much as two billion dollars to move the Spurs, all things considered. That never gets mentioned.

[Teamduncan21]

Im just curious. What happens to all money not being used? $30 million in cap space, Does it go back to the Spurs owners (money saved) or the NBA? I ask simply because attendance is low these days. Could this also be killing two birds with one stone? We rebuild and the Spurs owners take less of a hit to the pocket while we’re in rebuuld with low attendance? With all the Spurs moving to Austin talk in a few years it just makes me wonder. Assuming the Spurs owners save or pay that money, would the Spurs owners want to pay $30 million for 1 future first round pick taking on Westbrocks contract? Im guessing it takes 10 home games to generate $30 Million in revenue. Im just thinking of this from a prespective of keeping the Spurs in San Antonio.

Give to the players on roster. So say keldon gets the money.

OKC had that this year I think. So that will be the sample