2025 NBA Offseason Thread

[ZeusWillJudge]

I don't totally get why a foreign league has to abide by an athletic contract in another country. If a player wants to walk away from a contract, he should be able to. It's not slavery.


LMAO. You don't get why the sun comes up every morning. Contracts? We don't need no steenking contracts.

[scott]

the leagues have agreements with one another aimed to prevent players from hopping around while under contract. contracts typically have buyout provisions in them if a player wants to leave for a different league. the receiving team is allowed to pay up to some set amount, dont know the exact numbers.

imaging trading 5 first round picks for donovan mitchell thinking you have him under contract for several years and then some fucking club from the UAE offers mitchell 75m per year to go play there and he just packs his bags and leaves. creates all kinds of problems

tbh... that's probably coming at some point. Because the kinds of leagues in the middle east who would offer insane amounts probably isn't the league who is going to sign on to some kind of interleague non-poaching agreement. I just hope this gets prolonged as much as possible. Once the Qataris and Saudis decided basketball is their new favorite sport, we're fucked

[scottspurs]

Well look at the positive side. If there is an expansion draft in a couple of years it will be easy to pick which players to protect. Typically you can only protect 8.

Wemby
Harper
Castle
Bryant (maybe)
Fox (Maybe, but also might be smart to let the Seattle SuperSonics or Vegas High Rollers take that contract)

Forego and don’t protect anybody else lol

[vander]

I don't totally get why a foreign league has to abide by an athletic contract in another country. If a player wants to walk away from a contract, he should be able to. It's not slavery.

lol well if a contract isn't a contract then there are a couple salaries the Spurs might want to renegotiate, or just stop paying

[scott]

Well look at the positive side. If there is an expansion draft in a couple of years it will be easy to pick which players to protect. Typically you can only protect 8.

Wemby
Harper
Castle
Bryant (maybe)
Fox (Maybe, but also might be smart to let the Seattle SuperSonics or Vegas High Rollers take that contract)

Forego and don’t protect anybody else lol

Fun thought exercise!

Depending on when it happened, you're right... Fox might be exactly who you leave unprotected... though that's the kind of situation where if you leave him unprotected you damn well better hope he gets picked, otherwise it's gonna be hella awkward!

With all the bad contracts out there, an expansion team could probably put together a pretty decent veteran team, but one that would instantly put you in the 2nd apron :lol

Maybe the league could do a deal where the expansion teams were not subject to the apron and the league subsidized their payrolls for the first couple of years... the other teams would probably be all for it just to view the expansion teams just starting out as dumping grounds.

Your 2027 Seattle Supersonics!

De'Aaron Fox
Jamal Murray
Jaylen Brown
Lauri Markkanen
Joel Embiid

There's about $270MM in payroll right there :lol

[exstatic]

I don't totally get why a foreign league has to abide by an athletic contract in another country. If a player wants to walk away from a contract, he should be able to. It's not slavery.

FIBA and the NBA signed an agreement decades ago to prevent cross poaching.

[exstatic]

Fun thought exercise!

Depending on when it happened, you're right... Fox might be exactly who you leave unprotected... though that's the kind of situation where if you leave him unprotected you damn well better hope he gets picked, otherwise it's gonna be hella awkward!

With all the bad contracts out there, an expansion team could probably put together a pretty decent veteran team, but one that would instantly put you in the 2nd apron :lol

Maybe the league could do a deal where the expansion teams were not subject to the apron and the league subsidized their payrolls for the first couple of years... the other teams would probably be all for it just to view the expansion teams just starting out as dumping grounds.

Your 2027 Seattle Supersonics!

De'Aaron Fox
Jamal Murray
Jaylen Brown
Lauri Markkanen
Joel Embiid

There's about $270MM in payroll right there :lol

In the past, expansion teams have acquired players with a wink agreement to move them in trades.

I’m wondering if the expansion teams are constrained by the cap, a
lesser cap, or no cap. If a player is selected, does the team losing the player get an exception?

[Mr. Body]

FIBA and the NBA signed an agreement decades ago to prevent cross poaching.

Yes, I understand. It's still pretty absurd. Non-competes and otherwise shouldn't be legal. If someone doesn't want to work for you, they shouldn't have to work for you. This, again, is cartel behavior and should be illegal.

[Seventyniner]

tbh... that's probably coming at some point. Because the kinds of leagues in the middle east who would offer insane amounts probably isn't the league who is going to sign on to some kind of interleague non-poaching agreement. I just hope this gets prolonged as much as possible. Once the Qataris and Saudis decided basketball is their new favorite sport, we're fucked

The anti-poaching agreement would only be between the NBA owners and players union. If a player ever breaks an NBA contract to go somewhere else, he can't ever play in the NBA again. The players might not like that, but it's something the owners would absolutely lock the players out to achieve if it was ever a threat.

[LeBowen]

Yes, I understand. It's still pretty absurd. Non-competes and otherwise shouldn't be legal. If someone doesn't want to work for you, they shouldn't have to work for you. This, again, is cartel behavior and should be illegal.

It's a difficult situation because the move is between two basketball worlds that operate under different rules, but you can't expect Nuggets to lose value because player doesn't want to be there, but is actually valuable if we're talking basketball ability.
The only redeeming factor for them is that they didn't give up anything useful for Valanciunas, but hypothetically if they gave up a FRP, that wouldn't have been fair towards them.
This more isn't that relevant for the NBA, but it would set a dangerous precedent.

A lot of European players have buyout clauses when they get drafted and their teams get compensated by NBA teams that draft them.
Obviously a couple of million wouldn't mean anything to the Nuggets.
It's one of those strange situations without a good answer, but that will determine how things are done in the future.

Someone mentioned blood money states, Dubai just joined Euroleague. Who's to say they won't start throwing big money at solid NBA starters within a few years?
Players who would never get more than 10 to 15 million a year in the NBA, but can get 30 to 40 from oil states. What happens then?
We don't have any of those right now, but for the sake of discussion let's pretend it's 2014 and Dubai offers Danny Green 30 million a year. What then, Spurs just let him go and lose a lot of value for nothing?

As I said, there's no good answer because it's an uncharted territory and however this Valanciunas situation plays out, it will set a precedent for future deals.

[vy65]

Yes, I understand. It's still pretty absurd. Non-competes and otherwise shouldn't be legal. If someone doesn't want to work for you, they shouldn't have to work for you. This, again, is cartel behavior and should be illegal.

This is such a retarded take. These are athletes making tens-of-millions of dollars, surrounded by sophisticated advisers and lawyers. They're free to contract as they please. This isn't some 40k/year guy being locked into a shit job.

[ace3g]

Shams Charania ShamsCharania
·
38s
BREAKING: The Clippers, Jazz and Heat have agreed to a trade that sends Norman Powell to Miami, John Collins to Los Angeles, and Kevin Love, Kyle Anderson and a 2027 Clippers second-round pick to the Jazz, sources tell ESPN.

[vy65]

Jollins sold for basically a second? JFC.

[Degoat]

Sheeesh so the spurs really didn’t want Collins lol that’s nothing that Utah got

[mo7888]

Shams Charania ShamsCharania
·
38s
BREAKING: The Clippers, Jazz and Heat have agreed to a trade that sends Norman Powell to Miami, John Collins to Los Angeles, and Kevin Love, Kyle Anderson and a 2027 Clippers second-round pick to the Jazz, sources tell ESPN.

I believe Kyle still has a contract past this year. So, they took back money moving Colling for a 2nd. That feels like a missed opportunity unless we have something else going (which I doubt)

[Leetonidas]

The Collins dream is dead (again) :lol

[baseline bum]

tbh... that's probably coming at some point. Because the kinds of leagues in the middle east who would offer insane amounts probably isn't the league who is going to sign on to some kind of interleague non-poaching agreement. I just hope this gets prolonged as much as possible. Once the Qataris and Saudis decided basketball is their new favorite sport, we're fucked

Already fucking ruined golf

[Maddog]

Jollins sold for basically a second? JFC.


Sheeesh so the spurs really didn’t want Collins lol that’s nothing that Utah got

Outside of this board his market was small.

[onechance87]

its a nice move for clippers for sure.While we still aint doing shit.

[spurraider21]

How did miami send the corpses of Kevin love and Kyle Anderson into norm powell coming off that season :lol

[spurraider21]

Clippers flipped powell for a starting PF and now are one of the favorites to land Beal for cheap. Quote the coup

[timtonymanu]

Annoying that he's going to the Clippers, potential good move for them.

[Mnky]

Man that's a great get for Miami. Norman powell was becoming something out there. Might be the most impactful move out there.

Collins with harden and kawhi is interesting. It was pretty much on the wall that no one was paying for that contract. He's also mentioned he wants a long term extension. Sure that's what's hindered teams commiting as well.

Jazz were too greedy with a couple possible fringe star players. Good to see ol boy finally see a real trade market for once.

[exstatic]

Yes, I understand. It's still pretty absurd. Non-competes and otherwise shouldn't be legal. If someone doesn't want to work for you, they shouldn't have to work for you. This, again, is cartel behavior and should be illegal.

I see you’ve never heard of a contract.

The agreement doesn’t say players can’t flow between Europe and the NBA. It happens all of the time. It just says that FIBA will not sign you while you are currently under contract with the NBA, and vice versa.

[Degoat]

Still surprised the spurs let Mamu walk if they didn’t have a plan for an upgrade lol

[exstatic]

Still surprised the spurs let Mamu walk if they didn’t have a plan for an upgrade lol

I don’t really think you need a plan to replace a player who barely played through two lottery seasons.

[Ice009]

Why does Jonas not want to play for the Nuggets. Is that text photo fake? Who is BBR? Does he really not want to play with Jokic?

It sucks that the Clippers got that trade for Collins. Another team the Spurs have to contend with :(. Miami got a great deal, though, IMO.

Does Kevin Love have anything left in the tank? Could he be brought out?

[TD 21]

The Clippers finally have a legit PF, but now skew big, (even) older and slow.

For the price, Powell is a no brainer for the Heat, but this probably indicates Beal to the Bucks, who desperately need him.

Love will probably sign with a contender or retire, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Spurs express interest in him or maybe Lyles.

[Mr. Body]

This is such a retarded take. These are athletes making tens-of-millions of dollars, surrounded by sophisticated advisers and lawyers. They're free to contract as they please. This isn't some 40k/year guy being locked into a shit job.

Yes, defend cartel behavior, lol. Even free market capitalists would say this is stupid and unbalanced.

[Degoat]

I don’t really think you need a plan to replace a player who barely played through two lottery seasons.

When PF and shooting is a weakness on your team, you usually don’t let one of the few guys who can actually do that go.

[Mr. Body]

I see you’ve never heard of a contract.

The agreement doesn’t say players can’t flow between Europe and the NBA. It happens all of the time. It just says that FIBA will not sign you while you are currently under contract with the NBA, and vice versa.

Lol yes, you idiot, I understand what is being discussed. I'm saying it is abusive to labor and should not be permitted.

It's like if you worked at a hospital but decided to move to another state and work there and they wouldn't let you.

Or it's like the old Hollywood studio system where stars are under contract and weren't permitted to make movies outside their studio unless they were leased out.

All you geniuses probably think it would be insane if Scarlett Johansson could only make Disney movies for the next ten years.

[Trueblood]

Lol yes, you idiot, I understand what is being discussed. I'm saying it is abusive to labor and should not be permitted.

It's like if you worked at a hospital but decided to move to another state and work there and they wouldn't let you.

Or it's like the old Hollywood studio system where stars are under contract and weren't permitted to make movies outside their studio unless they were leased out.

All you geniuses probably think it would be insane if Scarlett Johansson could only make Disney movies for the next ten years.

But this is something we also see in the government. People who enlist (present company included) understand that when they sign the contract they’re obligated to fulfill it with the US government. They’re not allowed to take leave and go serve in another military for a month. Their freedom began and ended at the signing of the contract.

It’s no different here. They’re free to play wherever they want and if they don’t like the terms, they’re free not to sign. But you don’t get to say “I want to work for your organization and make millions of dollars” but then simultaneously say “but I want to do it on my terms”. You negotiate those terms when you sign the contract and if you don’t like it, don’t sign. It really is that simple.

And if you REALLY don’t like it, start your own free market league where players can all play where and when they want.

[Teamduncan21]

Lol yes, you idiot, I understand what is being discussed. I'm saying it is abusive to labor and should not be permitted.

It's like if you worked at a hospital but decided to move to another state and work there and they wouldn't let you.

Or it's like the old Hollywood studio system where stars are under contract and weren't permitted to make movies outside their studio unless they were leased out.

All you geniuses probably think it would be insane if Scarlett Johansson could only make Disney movies for the next ten years.

If she agrees to it yes, else she shouldn't sign the contract that ties her up for 10 years and negotiate.

[Mr. Body]

I see you’ve never heard of a contract.

The agreement doesn’t say players can’t flow between Europe and the NBA. It happens all of the time. It just says that FIBA will not sign you while you are currently under contract with the NBA, and vice versa.

[Mr. Body]

If she agrees to it yes, else she shouldn't sign the contract that ties her up for 10 years and negotiate.

But... that's not how it works. They broke the studio system like seventy years ago.

If a player wants to play in the NBA he has to play for the team that has his rights. Fine.

That player did not sign a contract with FIBA. That's not fine.

[RC_Drunkford]

It's a difficult situation because the move is between two basketball worlds that operate under different rules, but you can't expect Nuggets to lose value because player doesn't want to be there, but is actually valuable if we're talking basketball ability.
The only redeeming factor for them is that they didn't give up anything useful for Valanciunas, but hypothetically if they gave up a FRP, that wouldn't have been fair towards them.
This more isn't that relevant for the NBA, but it would set a dangerous precedent.

A lot of European players have buyout clauses when they get drafted and their teams get compensated by NBA teams that draft them.
Obviously a couple of million wouldn't mean anything to the Nuggets.
It's one of those strange situations without a good answer, but that will determine how things are done in the future.

Someone mentioned blood money states, Dubai just joined Euroleague. Who's to say they won't start throwing big money at solid NBA starters within a few years?
Players who would never get more than 10 to 15 million a year in the NBA, but can get 30 to 40 from oil states. What happens then?
We don't have any of those right now, but for the sake of discussion let's pretend it's 2014 and Dubai offers Danny Green 30 million a year. What then, Spurs just let him go and lose a lot of value for nothing?

As I said, there's no good answer because it's an uncharted territory and however this Valanciunas situation plays out, it will set a precedent for future deals.

someone mentioned the United States?

[vy65]

Yes, defend cartel behavior, lol. Even free market capitalists would say this is stupid and unbalanced.

Even the FTC's ban carves out people making more than $150k. Nothing is more "free market capitalist" than the freedom to contract. You very obviously have 0 fucking clue about what you're talking about.

[vy65]

Lol yes, you idiot, I understand what is being discussed. I'm saying it is abusive to labor and should not be permitted.

It's like if you worked at a hospital but decided to move to another state and work there and they wouldn't let you.

Or it's like the old Hollywood studio system where stars are under contract and weren't permitted to make movies outside their studio unless they were leased out.

All you geniuses probably think it would be insane if Scarlett Johansson could only make Disney movies for the next ten years.

So employment contracts are meaningless? Lol "abusive to" athletes making tens of millions of dollars.

[RC_Drunkford]

that 1 second round pick was too much for Brian Wright to give up. Imagine how much cash he can make with it next year

[Mnky]

Man that's a great get for Miami. Norman powell was becoming something out there. Might be the most impactful move out there.

Collins with harden and kawhi is interesting. It was pretty much on the wall that no one was paying for that contract. He's also mentioned he wants a long term extension. Sure that's what's hindered teams commiting as well.

Jazz were too greedy with a couple possible fringe star players. Good to see ol boy finally see a real trade market for once.

[BatManu20]

its a nice move for clippers for sure.While we still aint doing shit.

:pop: "We like what we have."

[exstatic]

When PF and shooting is a weakness on your team, you usually don’t let one of the few guys who can actually do that go.

We need to weed the players who can’t play defense. He’s one of them, and his contract expired. Malaki expires next year, and I want him gone then, too. Keldon the year after. No need to expend assets to offload them, but certainly let them roll off.

[poopbox]

Collins with a real big and surrounded by shooting is going to absolutely destroy us :rollin

Jeremy will be in some highlights against the clippers for all the wrong reasons

[Dverde]

Clippers adding CP3 and Beal next?

[Dverde]

that 1 second round pick was too much for Brian Wright to give up. Imagine how much cash he can make with it next year

It must hurt. Spurs do not want him. They could have easily traded for him twice now. I hope this brings you closure.

[SpursFan86]

Opinions on Collins aside…are the Spurs really about to go into next season with their options at PF being Sochan/Barnes/Bryant? Surely they have some other move planned…right?

Even if you’re confident in Sochan, Barnes is another year older and there’s a good likelihood Bryant isn’t ready for real minutes at the 4 with his current size.

[Dejounte]

It must hurt. Spurs do not want him. They could have easily traded for him twice now. I hope this brings you closure.

Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

RC will make it to accepting the Spurs don’t want a big with stiff hips someday

I know I’m at acceptance now after the disappointment of not drafting Sorber

the Spurs are not building this team with twin towers in mind. People have to start accepting it.

[spurraider21]

Man that's a great get for Miami. Norman powell was becoming something out there. Might be the most impactful move out there.

Collins with harden and kawhi is interesting. It was pretty much on the wall that no one was paying for that contract. He's also mentioned he wants a long term extension. Sure that's what's hindered teams commiting as well.

Jazz were too greedy with a couple possible fringe star players. Good to see ol boy finally see a real trade market for once.
everybody did well here except the Jazz. if the clippers are able to replace powell with beal as reported they will have done well for themselves. and miami turning slowmo and love into Powell is great for them. honestly just lol jazz

[scott]

The anti-poaching agreement would only be between the NBA owners and players union. If a player ever breaks an NBA contract to go somewhere else, he can't ever play in the NBA again. The players might not like that, but it's something the owners would absolutely lock the players out to achieve if it was ever a threat.

I'm looking at similar to the Ronaldo situation in Saudi Arabia... if a Saudi prince is willing to give Steph (for example) a package worth $1B to play in Saudi for a couple of years at the end of his career... he probably doesn't care if he gets locked out of the NBA. Maybe he gets blacklisted and never elected to the HOF as a result and maybe that would discourage him?

Just spitballin'

[baseline bum]

Why does Jonas not want to play for the Nuggets. Is that text photo fake? Who is BBR? Does he really not want to play with Jokic?


Maybe he values freedom over money?

[spurraider21]

that 1 second round pick was too much for Brian Wright to give up. Imagine how much cash he can make with it next year
it would have taken more than a single SRP for Collins. it took 1 second rounder as the Jazz only took on smaller expiring deals. if we sent keldon we'd have to have sent more capital to account for them owing him 17.5 mil in 26-27

[exstatic]

everybody did well here except the Jazz. if the clippers are able to replace powell with beal as reported they will have done well for themselves. and miami turning slowmo and love into Powell is great for them. honestly just lol jazz

If you understand that their objective is to strip mine their roster, albeit a year too late, they did well, too. They tried and failed to play the double game of tanking, but maintaining talent on their roster, and lost, fined for holding out players.

[scott]

This trade is kind of wild from a value perspective, maybe someone can help me understand.

On one hand... no one wanted Collins and he's only worth the zombie joke factory of Kevin Love, Kyle Anderson and a SRP...

On the other hand... he's also worth Norman Powell.

Therefor... Normal Powell is also only worth Love, Anderson and an SRP?

Basically, I would have thought Powell would be worth more on the open market and certainly worth more to LAC. He was quite good last year, but he is 32, so I guess that's the age discount coming into play. Seems like his style of play would indicate that he has plenty of quality years left, but maybe not?

[Mitch Cumsteen]

This trade is kind of wild from a value perspective, maybe someone can help me understand.

On one hand... no one wanted Collins and he's only worth the zombie joke factory of Kevin Love, Kyle Anderson and a SRP...

On the other hand... he's also worth Norman Powell.

Therefor... Normal Powell is also only worth Love, Anderson and an SRP?

Basically, I would have thought Powell would be worth more on the open market and certainly worth more to LAC. He was quite good last year, but he is 32, so I guess that's the age discount coming into play. Seems like his style of play would indicate that he has plenty of quality years left, but maybe not?
I don't know what the contract extension situations look like for Collins or Powell, but I'd bet that had a lot to do with the perceived value of each. I understand Utah is fully embracing the tank --- like it wasn't enough for them to have the worst record in the league last year -- but I guess now they are clearing the decks for the young guys to get minutes. Markannan makes less and less sense on that team.

[spurraider21]

This trade is kind of wild from a value perspective, maybe someone can help me understand.

On one hand... no one wanted Collins and he's only worth the zombie joke factory of Kevin Love, Kyle Anderson and a SRP...

On the other hand... he's also worth Norman Powell.

Therefor... Normal Powell is also only worth Love, Anderson and an SRP?

Basically, I would have thought Powell would be worth more on the open market and certainly worth more to LAC. He was quite good last year, but he is 32, so I guess that's the age discount coming into play. Seems like his style of play would indicate that he has plenty of quality years left, but maybe not?
this is why im saying the jazz got the shit end of the stick and miami got the big win here

miami got a legit player for corpses. clippers swapped a legit player for a legit player at a different position of need. jazz took 2 corpses for a legit, albiet overpaid for a year, player

reason powell has less value than one may think he is 32 and wanting a big contract

[scott]

I don't know what the contract extension situations look like for Collins or Powell, but I'd bet that had a lot to do with the perceived value of each. I understand Utah is fully embracing the tank --- like it wasn't enough for them to have the worst record in the league last year -- but I guess now they are clearing the decks for the young guys to get minutes. Markannan makes less and less sense on that team.

Powell is an expiring as well. Maybe they both have high salary demands on their new deals (I kind of doubt they'll get it though).

Seems like Powell could have yielded a better return for a team looking to clear long term cap space... but I guess not!

[scott]

this is why im saying the jazz got the shit end of the stick and miami got the big win here

miami got a legit player for corpses. clippers swapped a legit player for a legit player at a different position of need. jazz took 2 corpses for a legit, albiet overpaid for a year, player

reason powell has less value than one may think he is 32 and wanting a big contract

Yeah... feels like Powell (and to a lesser extent Collins) would have been worth more as trade deadline playoff rentals... but I guess LAC can't afford to wait for the trade deadline since they want to compete. Miami definitely the big winner here.

[Seventyniner]

I'm looking at similar to the Ronaldo situation in Saudi Arabia... if a Saudi prince is willing to give Steph (for example) a package worth $1B to play in Saudi for a couple of years at the end of his career... he probably doesn't care if he gets locked out of the NBA. Maybe he gets blacklisted and never elected to the HOF as a result and maybe that would discourage him?

Just spitballin'

As long as Steph is a free agent at that point that shouldn't be anything that would bother the owners or players union. It's the prospect of a NBA player breaking their contract to go to a different league, whether it's in Europe, Saudi Arabia, or anywhere else, and then expecting to be able to come back later on, that would cause problems. I can easily see HoF blacklisting being part of that.

[Bruno]

A conclusion of this offseason is that undersized scoring SG have little to no value even when they are good players.

Sexton, Clarkson, Simons, Powell, Poole, Monk... all have very little trade value.

[Bruno]

And LOL to Ainge with his crazy asking prices meeting reality.

[spurraider21]

And LOL to Ainge with his crazy asking prices meeting reality.
Walker Kessler will be the next one tbh :lol

[BatManu20]

Would be fitting for CP3 to finish his career with the Clips. Could be back in LA with his fam too. He wouldn't start though, which appears to mean more to him than playing on a good team.

1942268933144469847

[WaywardTexan]

Why does Jonas not want to play for the Nuggets. Is that text photo fake? Who is BBR?

BeMar BeRozen.

[Seventyniner]

Would be fitting for CP3 to finish his career with the Clips. Could be back in LA with his fam too. He wouldn't start though, which appears to mean more to him than playing on a good team.

I appreciate CP3 for giving his all to the Spurs this last season, but if this happens the Clippers will be the easiest non-Lakers team to hate in a while.

[TD 21]

If Beal chooses the money/location of the Clippers over the superior role/weaker conference of the Bucks, I wonder what happens with Paul. Hard to believe he wants to spend his supposed final season as a probable 6th man (unless they go micro ball with Green-Booker-Brooks at 2-4) on a probable non play-in team.

Those complaining about the Spurs not acquiring Collins, there's no reason as to why the Jazz would have preferred to pay Barnes $5.7M (setting aside this making no sense from the Spurs perspective) more than Anderson/Love in '25-'26 or Johnson $17.5M in '26-'27.

[scott]

For those who just like some fun offseason drama... there is speculation circling that the Jazz may be an offer-sheet team for Quintin Grimes. The Sixers are currently $19MM (and change) below the second apron. The idea is that the Jazz would make a few simple moves to open up the cap space to extend an offer sheet in excess of that, putting Philly in quite the difficult position.

I hope it happens, just for the LOLs, but seems counter productive to good relationship building, and then there is the question of whether Grimes would even sign an offer sheet with UTA.

Something to watch.

[DAF86]

Add Chris Paul to the list of players who after playing with the spurs no other teams were all that interested.

I remember when it was the other way around. Barnes will probably be out of the league after next season.

CP3 is likely having problems because of his crazy demand of wanting to start. Many teams would love him as a backup.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Yes, I understand. It's still pretty absurd. Non-competes and otherwise shouldn't be legal. If someone doesn't want to work for you, they shouldn't have to work for you. This, again, is cartel behavior and should be illegal.

So do you think the Bucks should have just been able to kick Dame to the curb and not pay him?

[DAF86]

I don't totally get why a foreign league has to abide by an athletic contract in another country. If a player wants to walk away from a contract, he should be able to. It's not slavery.

lol bro, you clearly didn't think this comment all the way through before posting it. Imagine a player just being able to bail on a team whenever he feels like it just to go play to another team. It doesn't matter if that team is from another league and another country, it fucks a franchise up.

[ace3g]

The Athletic
@TheAthletic
Teams Bradley Beal could consider joining if he is bought out by the Suns include the Clippers, Warriors, Lakers and Bucks, a source tells FredKatz
.

The Suns and Beal are increasingly optimistic that the two sides will agree to terms on a buyout, league sources say.

The goal for the Suns is to negotiate a buyout, waive him and then stretch his remaining salary over five years, which would reduce his annual cap hit on their books. The move would not only get Phoenix out of the second apron, but also out of the luxury tax altogether.

The latest: https://nytimes.com/athletic/6478558/2025/07/07/bradley-beal-buyout-suns-nba/?source=twitterhq

[scott]

Clearly players should not simply be able to bail on their contracts because they want to play for another team... but it's also not too far outside the realm of imagination to consider why a foreigner (who I think is a Canadian citizen now?) might want to bail from the US

[DAF86]

Yes, I understand. It's still pretty absurd. Non-competes and otherwise shouldn't be legal. If someone doesn't want to work for you, they shouldn't have to work for you. This, again, is cartel behavior and should be illegal.

If you don't want to work for someone, you don't sign a contract with that someone, tbh.

[DAF86]

its a nice move for clippers for sure.While we still aint doing shit.

Clippers? They lost Powell, who was arguably an all-star last season. How the fuck did Miami get Powell by just giving up Kyle and Love?

[ace3g]

Shams Charania ShamsCharania
Breaking: Orlando Magic star Paolo Banchero has agreed to a five-year maximum rookie contract extension that could reach $287 million, Mike Miller of LIFT Sports Management tells ESPN. Deal includes a player option; the first for a rookie max since 2021 (Luka Doncic, Trae Young).

[DAF86]

Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

RC will make it to accepting the Spurs don’t want a big with stiff hips someday

I know I’m at acceptance now after the disappointment of not drafting Sorber

the Spurs are not building this team with twin towers in mind. People have to start accepting it.

You wouldn't listen, tbh.

In all seriousness now, I don't see Collins as a "twin towers" player, tbh. He was a modern 4, that could stretch the floor on offense and handle oppossing 4's in the perimeter on defense.

[ace3g]

Brett Siegel BrettSiegelNBA
The Kings are using their Huerter $16.8M exception to take on Schroder’s contract.

Detroit creates about a $14.8M TPE that can be utilized over the next year at the cost of a second-round pick.

Kings will keep their MLE intact.
Quote
Brett Siegel BrettSiegelNBA
·
2m
Are you all finally ready for the confirmation?

Dennis Schroder is heading to the Kings by way of a sign-and-trade, multiple league sources have confirmed to ClutchPoints.

[scott]

The 5th year player option on rookie supermax extensions is probably poised to be the next deal sweetener. Allows these really high end rookies to get to a 35% Supermax a year earlier. I'd expect Wemby to do something similar, tbh. Kind of surprised Ant didn't get this in his.

All eyes on OKC for the JDub and Chet extensions now. I still think Chet signs for less than 25%. OKC probably going to start lighting candles next season and hope JDub doesn't make All NBA

[RC_Drunkford]

it would have taken more than a single SRP for Collins. it took 1 second rounder as the Jazz only took on smaller expiring deals. if we sent keldon we'd have to have sent more capital to account for them owing him 17.5 mil in 26-27

I know, but it was 1 SRP. We got 4 in 2026. I'm good with trading 3.


This trade is kind of wild from a value perspective, maybe someone can help me understand.

On one hand... no one wanted Collins and he's only worth the zombie joke factory of Kevin Love, Kyle Anderson and a SRP...

On the other hand... he's also worth Norman Powell.

Therefor... Normal Powell is also only worth Love, Anderson and an SRP?

Basically, I would have thought Powell would be worth more on the open market and certainly worth more to LAC. He was quite good last year, but he is 32, so I guess that's the age discount coming into play. Seems like his style of play would indicate that he has plenty of quality years left, but maybe not?

felt the same tbh. Powell was a borderline All-Star last season. One would think the Heat should've sent some type of pick compensation out in that deal.

[spurraider21]

I know, but it was 1 SRP. We got 4 in 2026. I'm good with trading 3.
yeah i'd been on record saying i'd comfortably send 3 SRP

[RC_Drunkford]

Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance

RC will make it to accepting the Spurs don’t want a big with stiff hips someday

I know I’m at acceptance now after the disappointment of not drafting Sorber

the Spurs are not building this team with twin towers in mind. People have to start accepting it.

Collins is not a big. He's a 6'8'' PF. They obviously wanted Yabusele, who's not more mobile than Collins either.

[scott]

yeah i'd been on record saying i'd comfortably send 3 SRP

I don't even care about Jollins, but I would have sent out 4, or even more. They're clearly of zero value to us. Send out as many needed to get good players in return. I could say "well, we need to save some to acquire other players too", but I'll start believing we can walk when we at least take our first step.

The last time we used an SRP to acquire a player (outside of acquiring a player being salary dumped by another team) was the McBuckets S&T in 2021.

Before that, we sent an SRP to SAC for Ray McCallum in 2015.

Those are the last two times we've used an SRP (or multiple) to acquire a player.

Shocking, honestly.

[scott]

And for those interested, Spotrac has a great tool for looking through the history of transactions, by team, by type, with customizable date filters, etc.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/transactions/_/start/2015-06-07/end/2025-07-07/team/sas/type/traded

[Dejounte]

Collins is not a big. He's a 6'8'' PF. They obviously wanted Yabusele, who's not more mobile than Collins either.


https://youtu.be/6Uf1E9u_upA?feature=shared

a player’s position is dictated by how they defend. Take this video of Collins and see that he’s a big who hovers around the paint. He’s a big through and through - an undersized one. The Spurs are continually passing on these types of players and it’s because they don’t want this archetype.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://youtu.be/6Uf1E9u_upA?feature=shared

a player’s position is dictated by how they defend. Take this video of Collins and see that he’s a big who hovers around the paint. He’s a big through and through - an undersized one. The Spurs are continually passing on these types of players and it’s because they don’t want this archetype.

I know how he defends. Now watch Yabusele tape and tell me he defends any different.

[RC_Drunkford]

by the way since Kornet's contract is frontloaded, the Spurs still have 3.1 million in MLE money available, as well as the BAE for 5.1 million.

[mystargtr34]

I like the deal for both Miami and the Clippers. Miami improved significantly by adding an efficient 20 point scorer in Powell which they needed (21st in ORTG last season and 9th in DRTG) and the Clippers improved let’s say a little more than marginally but not enough to say significantly.

Collins and Powell are about equal as players in a vacuum (as spurraider said) but the Clippers badly needed a starting 4 for a couple years now to move Kawhi and DJJ down to the 3, they literally only had Batum on the roster who was an NBA level 4. Kawhi can play there but his old broken ass shouldn’t be banging with the Aaron Gordon’s of the world. Clips have a glut of 2/3s so moving Norm for an equivalent player at a position of much higher need is smart. Especially since they can possibly get a Beal as a replacement for cheap. Even if they don’t I still like the deal for the Clips. This also helps the Clippers match up a bit better with Denver and Gordon who always seems to kill them (19 a game on 50% last series), Collins isn’t an all defense guy but he’s a solid 6’9 240 and can keep Gordon off the boards somewhat and let Kawhi DJJ guard the MPJs and Cam Johnson’s of the world.

This move solidifies Miami as a top 6 seed in the East and they can hopefully push Atlanta down closer to the play in. It’s not too far fetched to see Atlanta in 7th or 8th with Cleveland, New York, Orlando, Miami, Philly, Detroit, Milwaukee all having a chance to be better than the Hawks. I know Atlanta looks good on paper but Porzingis is always injured and it will only take Trae missing 10-20 games for them to fall a bit.

Spurs will need to upgrade their starting 4 spot from Barnes eventually if they want to be a serious team that wants to win a playoff series.

[Mnky]

I know how he defends. Now watch Yabusele tape and tell me he defends any different.

Yabuselle would have cost about a 1/5th of Collins contract.

[Ice009]

by the way since Kornet's contract is frontloaded, the Spurs still have 3.1 million in MLE money available, as well as the BAE for 5.1 million.

With the BAE, can you just keep deferring it indefinitely to the following season if you don't use it? I doubt the Spurs will use it now as I don't see any players worth giving it to. Unless there is a buyout during the season of a player they like? I assume you can't trade players into it?

[tonight...you]

With the BAE, can you just keep deferring it indefinitely to the following season if you don't use it? I doubt the Spurs will use it now as I don't see any players worth giving it to. Unless there is a buyout during the season of a player they like? I assume you can't trade players into it?
I think it has to do with if you're at the Luxury Tax/Apron 1/Apron 2.
If this was morning I would have the gumption to look it up for you.

[rankingtear]

I don't even care about Jollins, but I would have sent out 4, or even more. They're clearly of zero value to us. Send out as many needed to get good players in return. I could say "well, we need to save some to acquire other players too", but I'll start believing we can walk when we at least take our first step.

The last time we used an SRP to acquire a player (outside of acquiring a player being salary dumped by another team) was the McBuckets S&T in 2021.

Before that, we sent an SRP to SAC for Ray McCallum in 2015.

Those are the last two times we've used an SRP (or multiple) to acquire a player.

Shocking, honestly.

The fox trade?

[scott]

The fox trade?

We did not acquire De'Aaron Fox for SRPs, my friend

Edit: I see what you're saying and my original post should have clarified more. Those were the last times we acquired a player using SRPs not in combination with FRPs. So I'm talking about trades where the SRP was the primary means of compensation (outside of matching salary).

[Ice009]

I think it has to do with if you're at the Luxury Tax/Apron 1/Apron 2.
If this was morning I would have the gumption to look it up for you.

No, all good, thanks. Don't want you spending time looking it up. Was only asking in case anyone knew offhand already.

[spursistan]

Same thing will happen with Lauri and his plummeting trade value.. Ainge's Jazz rebuild is basically down to: Dybansta or bust. Three years on and Utah are in a much worse position compared to when they were before bailing on the Mitchell/Gobert team..


https://x.com/sixringsofsteeI/status/1942229434284572854

[Ice009]

I wonder what Jazz fans think about these trades and if they're pissed off with the past two or so years of losing and nothing to really show for it draft pick wise (maybe Ace can turn that around).

[R. DeMurre]

It's funny how Austin Ainge could come out of the gate with a lot of bravado, saying the Jazz would not be tanking, and now they're tanking harder than ever. The justification will be a fuzzy argument around about how the team will be playing hard, and not trying to lose, as if putting a terrible team on the floor on purpose isn't actually tanking.

[RC_Drunkford]

Yabuselle would have cost about a 1/5th of Collins contract.

tell me something I don't know

[mudyez]

I'm still praying for Horford. Perfect fit...but probably will rather retire than play for the 5mio we can offer.

[Seventyniner]

It's funny how Austin Ainge could come out of the gate with a lot of bravado, saying the Jazz would not be tanking, and now they're tanking harder than ever. The justification will be a fuzzy argument around about how the team will be playing hard, and not trying to lose, as if putting a terrible team on the floor on purpose isn't actually tanking.

The Process Sixers 2: Electric Boogaloo.

That's how Utah is trying to get back at Silver. "If you're gonna fine us for sitting our best players, fine we will just get rid of all of them and not have any good players at all"

[poopbox]

The 5th year player option on rookie supermax extensions is probably poised to be the next deal sweetener. Allows these really high end rookies to get to a 35% Supermax a year earlier. I'd expect Wemby to do something similar, tbh. Kind of surprised Ant didn't get this in his.

All eyes on OKC for the JDub and Chet extensions now. I still think Chet signs for less than 25%. OKC probably going to start lighting candles next season and hope JDub doesn't make All NBA

He made 3rd team all nba this year so I think JDub has already qualified for the rookie supermax extension.

Would be wild if Chet made all nba this upcoming season and now they have SGA, JDub, and Chet on supermax contracts :lol

Sort of a death sentence contract tbh. Every player in the history of the nba who became super max eligible either signed it or got traded, no in between. :lol

[TimDunkem]

"Spurs consistently pass on these players (undersized bigs). They do not want this archetype."

*Sochan was drafted by SA, and is still on the team*

Typical retarded takes from the forum's resident retard.

[spurraider21]

tell me something I don't know
I open mouth kissed a horse once

[spurraider21]

I'm still praying for Horford. Perfect fit...but probably will rather retire than play for the 5mio we can offer.
There’s zero buzz there. At this point you may have to settle for Kevin Love after Utah buys him out

[RC_Drunkford]

look someone who can be had for free

1942250663439950015

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuVXC3tWoAAAzQa?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Seventyniner]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuVXC3tWoAAAzQa?format=jpg&name=900x900

:lol that's awesome

[spurraider21]

i mean for an end of bench guy who will only see the floor very situationally, you could do worse than kevin love as a vet to have. we're really scrapping the bottom here, but there really arent any appealing frontcourt guys available

[exstatic]

It's funny how Austin Ainge could come out of the gate with a lot of bravado, saying the Jazz would not be tanking, and now they're tanking harder than ever. The justification will be a fuzzy argument around about how the team will be playing hard, and not trying to lose, as if putting a terrible team on the floor on purpose isn't actually tanking.

The quote:

When asked about tanking, manipulating minutes, holding out players to keep performances on the low end in order to get better lottery odds, Ainge was crystal clear and did not skirt the subject in any way.

“You won’t see that this year,” he said.

[R. DeMurre]

The quote:

When asked about tanking, manipulating minutes, holding out players to keep performances on the low end in order to get better lottery odds, Ainge was crystal clear and did not skirt the subject in any way.

“You won’t see that this year,” he said.

So you go out of your way to not make the word tanking bold and think that proves a point? They're still tanking, but trying to use some suspect nuanced manipulation of the definition to act like they're not.

[scott]

He made 3rd team all nba this year so I think JDub has already qualified for the rookie supermax extension.

Would be wild if Chet made all nba this upcoming season and now they have SGA, JDub, and Chet on supermax contracts :lol

Sort of a death sentence contract tbh. Every player in the history of the nba who became super max eligible either signed it or got traded, no in between. :lol

JDub hasn't qualied yet. To qualify you must make All NBA (or win DPOY or MVP) in the year immediately proceeding your extension (which will be next year) or two of the previous three years. So if JDub had got it in 2023-24 and 2024-25, he'd be eligible. But since he only made it in 2024-25 (thus far), he'll need to make it next year to become eligible.

I'm guessing Chet won't even get the 30% language put into his contract, if he even gets the 25%. You'll start to see extension this summer that include the escalator clause, like Paolo's deal announced yesterday. It includes the 30% escalator, but he hasn't actually earned it yet, so it may turn out to be a 25% rookie max.

Edit: one clarification, winning MVP is a little different from the other qualifiers, you just have to win it once in the 3 years before your extension to be eligible for the supermax.

[scott]

There’s zero buzz there. At this point you may have to settle for Kevin Love after Utah buys him out

Would love for us to add Kevin Love to the end of our bench, like an all-knowing Buddha passing his knowledge on to the youths. My guess is that he joins a team with a superstar he has a relationship with already though (Lakers?)

[Raven]

Would love for us to add Kevin Love to the end of our bench, like an all-knowing Buddha passing his knowledge on to the youths. My guess is that he joins a team with a superstar he has a relationship with already though (Lakers?)

good lord, every day worse

[spurraider21]

Would love for us to add Kevin Love to the end of our bench, like an all-knowing Buddha passing his knowledge on to the youths. My guess is that he joins a team with a superstar he has a relationship with already though (Lakers?)
yeah if they'd rather have a low maintenance vet than another young guy who needs development, Love would fit the bill. also adds some rebounding, shooting, and passing in a pinch

[baseline bum]

I don't even care about Jollins, but I would have sent out 4, or even more. They're clearly of zero value to us. Send out as many needed to get good players in return. I could say "well, we need to save some to acquire other players too", but I'll start believing we can walk when we at least take our first step.

The last time we used an SRP to acquire a player (outside of acquiring a player being salary dumped by another team) was the McBuckets S&T in 2021.

Before that, we sent an SRP to SAC for Ray McCallum in 2015.

Those are the last two times we've used an SRP (or multiple) to acquire a player.

Shocking, honestly.

Spurs sent out those Charlotte seconds in the Fox trade last year

[poopbox]

JDub hasn't qualied yet. To qualify you must make All NBA (or win DPOY or MVP) in the year immediately proceeding your extension (which will be next year) or two of the previous three years. So if JDub had got it in 2023-24 and 2024-25, he'd be eligible. But since he only made it in 2024-25 (thus far), he'll need to make it next year to become eligible.

I'm guessing Chet won't even get the 30% language put into his contract, if he even gets the 25%. You'll start to see extension this summer that include the escalator clause, like Paolo's deal announced yesterday. It includes the 30% escalator, but he hasn't actually earned it yet, so it may turn out to be a 25% rookie max.

Edit: one clarification, winning MVP is a little different from the other qualifiers, you just have to win it once in the 3 years before your extension to be eligible for the supermax.

Ah. I thought all you had to do was make all nba once in your rookie contract to get it. In that case no way Chet becomes eligible.

[scott]

Spurs sent out those Charlotte seconds in the Fox trade last year

As clarified later, I'm referring to a trade where the primary compensation (other than matching salary) was SRPs. Obviously, the SRPs were not the key part of that trade.

[scott]

Ah. I thought all you had to do was make all nba once in your rookie contract to get it. In that case no way Chet becomes eligible.

Yeah, it's a little confusing the way the rules are laid out versus how it gets talked about in the media... easy mistake to make.

[SpursFan86]

Count me fully in on Love if we’re not looking at making any sort of larger trade-type move. I honestly think he could still be better than Barnes tbh. Last year was a weird year and maybe he really did just fall off a cliff but if he returned to his 2023-2024 form he’s absolutely worth adding.

[rjv]

ST hard up on landing any Kevin this offseason.

[scottspurs]

Kevin Bacon will be next

[exstatic]

So you go out of your way to not make the word tanking bold and think that proves a point? They're still tanking, but trying to use some suspect nuanced manipulation of the definition to act like they're not.

Oh, I absolutely think they are too, just wanted to point out his emphasis. You don’t have to do any of that if you strip your roster bare enough. Honestly, they should have done this last summer.

[heyheymymy]

https://www.meme-arsenal.com/memes/390fec6a467f2f3b62b09bf3c0469679.jpg

[TimDunkem]

ST hard up on landing any Kevin this offseason.

Sign me up then.

[spurraider21]

anybody wanna pretend they'd heard of this guy and convince us that this would be a sneaky waiver claim that could fit within the remainder of the MLE after the kornet signing?

1942700490229452957

[Mr. Body]

anybody wanna pretend they'd heard of this guy and convince us that this would be a sneaky waiver claim that could fit within the remainder of the MLE after the kornet signing?

1942700490229452957

In no way does this Tweet sound like a paid thing from an agent or anything.

But we missed on Duncan Robinson, we may miss on Jordan Miller. I'm holding out for Barkley Malone.

[scott]

anybody wanna pretend they'd heard of this guy and convince us that this would be a sneaky waiver claim that could fit within the remainder of the MLE after the kornet signing?

1942700490229452957

We could have Jordan, Carter and Bryant on our roster... buckets for days

[spurraider21]

In no way does this Tweet sound like a paid thing from an agent or anything.

But we missed on Duncan Robinson, we may miss on Jordan Miller. I'm holding out for Barkley Malone.
if that was coming from shams or something i'd agree... i dont really think Keith Smith is some connected guy. seems like a genuine fan of the game imho

[scott]

Russell Chamberlin, where are you?!?!?

[scott]

if that was coming from shams or something i'd agree... i dont really think Keith Smith is some connected guy. seems like a genuine fan of the game imho

I think Keith has earned a reputation to have some connections around the league... but I've never seen him engage in any kind of speculation or rumor mongering. And certainly I don't think NBA GM's look to Keith's twitter feed as a lead generator for incoming prospects

[RC_Drunkford]

He‘s 25 and shot 21% from 3 last season….“potential“

[mo7888]

Malaki + Blake for Olynk...i like it

[ace3g]

Michael Scotto MikeAScotto
·
11s
Sources: Wizards center Richaun Holmes is partially guaranteed $250,000 of his $13.28 million salary for the 2025-26 season, which makes him a prime candidate to be eventually waived or traded, given Washington’s roster logjam. He averaged 7.4 points and 5.7 rebounds last season.
Quote
Michael Scotto MikeAScotto
·
23m
San Antonio Spurs are trading Malaki Branham, Blake Wesley and a 2026 second-round pick (least favorable of DAL, PHI, OKC) to the Washington Wizards for Kelly Olynyk, sources confirm. ESPN first to report. Wizards have a roster overflow and will need to adjust via cuts or trades.

[spurraider21]

well, after sending out Blake and Bran for Olynyk, we now have 3 roster spots open in addition to the 2-way spots

names i find interesting, assuming we just want low maintenence vets (cant speak to price points given we are 8.5mil below the tax line):

DeAnthony Melton
Malcolm Brogdon
Gary Patyon II
Jordan McLaughlin
Cory Joseph
Alec Burks
Seth Curry
Amir Coffey
Torrey Craig

if they wanted to stash away an upside player who can be on the roster but spend a lot of time in austin, Jalen Hood-Schifino is still out there

[ChumpDumper]

well, after sending out Blake and Bran for Olynyk, we now have 3 roster spots open in addition to the 2-way spots

names i find interesting, assuming we just want low maintenence vets (cant speak to price points given we are 8.5mil below the tax line):

DeAnthony Melton
Malcolm Brogdon
Gary Patyon II
Jordan McLaughlin
Cory Joseph
Alec Burks
Seth Curry
Amir Coffey
Torrey Craig

if they wanted to stash away an upside player who can be on the roster but spend a lot of time in austin, Jalen Hood-Schifino is still out there

Absolutely in favor of one or two of Burks, Curry and Coffey if they are willing to take the role they'd be given -- they still need shooting. Hood-Schifino is fine as a project.

[J_Paco]

I like Olynyk cause he can do a lot of what Zach Collins did (playmake & hit three's), but he's an actually capable scorer.

Got rid of some of the excess guards and improved the big man depth, now sign one (or two) of Ingram, Minnix or Duke Jr to a cheap, regular deal and sign another veteran (maybe a 4/5 that can rebound) and it's a solid off-season.

I definitely see both or one of Malaki or Blake being waived by Washington. They have a logjam at guard and neither is good enough to keep around. Unpopular opinion, but hopefully both of them catch on elsewhere.

[scott]

I don't even care about Jollins, but I would have sent out 4, or even more. They're clearly of zero value to us. Send out as many needed to get good players in return. I could say "well, we need to save some to acquire other players too", but I'll start believing we can walk when we at least take our first step.

The last time we used an SRP to acquire a player (outside of acquiring a player being salary dumped by another team) was the McBuckets S&T in 2021.

Before that, we sent an SRP to SAC for Ray McCallum in 2015.

Those are the last two times we've used an SRP (or multiple) to acquire a player.

Shocking, honestly.

BOOM! Just like that, we used an SRP to acquire a player! Welcome to San Anto, Kelly "Lunch Lady" Olynyk! (This is what BBRef says his nickname is, lol)

[scott]

But a lot of these trades will find a way to get expanded when the final deals get announced next week... that's why I think people should hold their horses on considering the off-season done for us. Brian may just extract a useful asset out of one of these deals for essentially free

I'm going to go ahead and declare the Olynyk trade as another one of Brian's "getting a useful asset for essentially free"

[RC_Drunkford]

I'm going to go ahead and declare the Olynyk trade as another one of Brian's "getting a useful asset for essentially free"

after he wasted 2 first round picks on the 2 guys he packaged to trade for him

[tbdog]

after he wasted 2 first round picks on the 2 guys he packaged to trade for him

Rockets and Thunder just did that. That's what happens with roster crunch. Also it's fair to say that Branham and Wesley didn't show enough. But it just happens that the spurs drafted the best available in the last two drafts, both guards in castle and Harper. If spurs drafted Flagg or Sarr, it's possible one of Wesley or Branham would be here still.

[John B]

Rockets and Thunder just did that. That's what happens with roster crunch. Also it's fair to say that Branham and Wesley didn't show enough. But it just happens that the spurs drafted the best available in the last two drafts, both guards in castle and Harper. If spurs drafted Flagg or Sarr, it's possible one of Wesley or Branham would be here still.

Blake is a great locker room guy on top of his defensive upgrade. He will be missed.

Malaki is a good guy, but too nice to a fault. He deferred too much and didn’t show enough dawg for the fight. That and his defense is suspect. Good kid but too nice. I do wish both well.

Agree drafting both Castle and Harper, both no brainer, accelerated the inevitable. Still I would’ve like to develop Blake more for his defensive upside and athleticism.

[ace3g]

Shams Charania ShamsCharania
·
30s
Breaking: Oklahoma City Thunder star and NBA champion Chet Holmgren has agreed to a fully guaranteed five-year maximum rookie contract extension that could reach $250 million, agent Bill Duffy of WME Basketball told ESPN

[Notorious H.O.P.]

Wow. I thought durability concerns might get him a slight bit less than the max. Good for him though

[spursistan]

Chet is good but not $250 millions good..

Presti with the first clear overpay move in this current OKC era. Good to see :tu

[Notorious H.O.P.]

after he wasted 2 first round picks on the 2 guys he packaged to trade for him

Branham was considered a potential steal at the time we drafted him but not everyone is going to develop to their full potential. There were some hits but plenty of misses in the that drafting range.

I think Wesley was just a math casualty. I'm sure the Spurs would probably have kept his as the third string point guard if they didn't need his money to make the trade work.

[Dverde]

Olynk and Barnes expiring 32M cap space should bring hundreds of posts of what to use with it.

[RC_Drunkford]

good to see OKC overpaying on the Chet extension. Now let's hope Jaylen Williams gets a 30% max extension and they will have to break the roster up in the future.


Branham was considered a potential steal at the time we drafted him but not everyone is going to develop to their full potential. There were some hits but plenty of misses in the that drafting range.

I think Wesley was just a math casualty. I'm sure the Spurs would probably have kept his as the third string point guard if they didn't need his money to make the trade work.

I'm not criticizing the trade. It's a good move, but those 2 first round picks did not pan out, even though experts said the Spurs nailed the draft in 2022. Nembhard, Braun, Kessler and Jovic would've been better pics.


Rockets and Thunder just did that. That's what happens with roster crunch. Also it's fair to say that Branham and Wesley didn't show enough. But it just happens that the spurs drafted the best available in the last two drafts, both guards in castle and Harper. If spurs drafted Flagg or Sarr, it's possible one of Wesley or Branham would be here still.

Wright doesn't get any credit for the Wemby, Castle and Harper pics. A blind man would've made those.

[KDKSpurs24]

Wow. I thought durability concerns might get him a slight bit less than the max. Good for him though
That’s why I think it says “that could reach $250 million”. Sounds to me like maybe there’s going to be some clauses and incentives in there to cover that kind of stuff.

[BacktoBasics]

Chet is good but not $250 millions good..

Presti with the first clear overpay move in this current OKC era. Good to see :tu

I don't feel Presti had a choice. There's no leverage if Chet's agent is demanding the max. You risk souring what you just accomplished. For anyone to take less than max money its going to take the players colluding rather than a GM being savvy. No agent is going to recommend a player take anything less.

It definitely looks like OKC is going to max 3 guys. If any team can pull it off its them. They have the draft stock to rotate decent role players in and out.

Without all those picks 3 max players is death wish.

[TimDunkem]

Chet is good but not $250 millions good..

Presti with the first clear overpay move in this current OKC era. Good to see :tu
Yeah, it's not like he can be easily traded if necessary or anything. Especially with all those assets Presti has.

What a GM. :tu

[spursistan]

Yeah, it's not like he can be easily traded if necessary or anything. Especially with all those assets Presti has.

What a GM. :tu
If you feel you are compelled to trade your "unicorn", 2nd overall pick, maybe, just maybe you whiffed big time in your extension evaluation. You are acting like Chet was in Vassell conversations and not, until recently, in Wemby ones (as foolish as it were)..

[TimDunkem]

If you feel you are compelled to trade your "unicorn", 2nd overall pick, maybe, just maybe you whiffed big time in your extension evaluation. You are acting like Chet was in Vassell conversations and not, until recently, in Wemby ones (as foolish as it were)..
You just made up some shit in your head I never said. Nice one. Are you drunk already?

By the way, did I say they were going to be compelled? I'm saying his contract doesn't matter. Act like you watch the NBA.

[duncan2150]

well, after sending out Blake and Bran for Olynyk, we now have 3 roster spots open in addition to the 2-way spots

names i find interesting, assuming we just want low maintenence vets (cant speak to price points given we are 8.5mil below the tax line):

DeAnthony Melton
Malcolm Brogdon
Gary Patyon II
Jordan McLaughlin
Cory Joseph
Alec Burks
Seth Curry
Amir Coffey
Torrey Craig

if they wanted to stash away an upside player who can be on the roster but spend a lot of time in austin, Jalen Hood-Schifino is still out there

Monte Morris looks good for a 3rd pg. 47% carrer shooter 39% for 3, 3.6/0.7 AST/to.

[spursistan]

You just made up some shit in your head I never said. Nice one. Are you drunk already?

By the way, did I say they were going to be compelled? I'm saying his contract doesn't matter. Act like you watch the NBA.
I am not making shit up. I'm just pointing how lightly you're speaking of Chet as "a contract to be moved just in case" (i.e he's got Vassel pedigree). If you even contemplate trading your much-hyped second overall pick while barely into his first extension you are taking an executive L anyway (a whiff on the draft or the extension itself). Simple as that.

PS. There is no need to be mean and aggressive for a run-of-mill basketball take.

[exstatic]

Wow. I thought durability concerns might get him a slight bit less than the max. Good for him though

Dollar Tree Wemby is a type that you can’t just go get in the draft or the FA market.

Pulling for JWill to make All NBA this season to really throw a wrench in their cap/apron. :cooldevil

[TimDunkem]

I am not making shit up. I'm just pointing how lightly you're speaking of Chet as "a contract to be moved just in case" (i.e he's got Vassel pedigree). If you even contemplate trading your much-hyped second overall pick while barely into his first extension you are taking an executive L anyway (a whiff on the draft or the extension itself). Simple as that.

PS. There is no need to be mean and aggressive for a run-of-mill basketball take.
You did make shit up because that wasn't what I implied at all. The point is the contract is not an overpay, nor is it some sort of albatross like you're implying. There is always a solution to these kinds of deals, long-term, in the NBA.

Nothing more run of the mill than a salty Spurs fan passive-aggressively throwing shade because another team with former Spurs personnel is having success. It's alright, man. There, there...Wemby will make everything okay soon enough.

[Darkwaters]

Monte Morris looks good for a 3rd pg. 47% carrer shooter 39% for 3, 3.6/0.7 AST/to.

I'm actually wondering about Cory Joseph. He's a veteran with a lot of experience (including here in SA) and he's clearly willing to take a small role with limited playing time. Plus he shot 36.4% from 3 last season.

Not a big splash, but as your 4th PG I think he'd be fine and could provide mentorship to these young players.

[TimDunkem]

+1 for Cory Joseph. It's time to come home...

[spursistan]

You did make shit up because that wasn't what I implied at all. The point is the contract is not an overpay, nor is it some sort of albatross like you're implying. There is always a solution to these kinds of deals, long-term, in the NBA.

Nothing more run of the mill than a salty Spurs fan passive-aggressively throwing shade because another team with former Spurs personnel is having success. It's alright, man. There, there...Wemby will make everything okay soon enough.
I just don't get why are you so wallowing in ad-hominem negativity? ("drunk" "salty").Guess I'm out of this convo.

[TimDunkem]

I just don't get why are you so wallowing in ad-hominem negativity? ("drunk" "salty").Guess I'm out of this convo.
I should've taken a page out of your playbook and been more passive-aggressive about it. Sorry if I hurt you. Take another swig, and it'll be alright.

[baseline bum]

good to see OKC overpaying on the Chet extension. Now let's hope Jaylen Williams gets a 30% max extension and they will have to break the roster up in the future.


Is that not able to go to 30% if Holmgren makes an All NBA Team this year? If they're paying two 30s and a 35 then there is no way they can keep Dort so will probably keep Caruso instead. Hartenstein is for sure out and it seems impossible that they could keep Cason Wallace either.

[TimDunkem]

Is that not able to go to 30% if Holmgren makes an All NBA Team this year? If they're paying two 30s and a 35 then there is no way they can keep Dort so will probably keep Caruso instead. Hartenstein is for sure out and it seems impossible that they could keep Cason Wallace either.
They were never keeping that team together. In fact, a lot of teams are having trouble these days due to the apron rules. Kind of sucks, tbh, imho.

[baseline bum]

I don't feel Presti had a choice. There's no leverage if Chet's agent is demanding the max. You risk souring what you just accomplished. For anyone to take less than max money its going to take the players colluding rather than a GM being savvy. No agent is going to recommend a player take anything less.

It definitely looks like OKC is going to max 3 guys. If any team can pull it off its them. They have the draft stock to rotate decent role players in and out.

Without all those picks 3 max players is death wish.

Three maxes is doable if they're not all 35% maxes like Phoenix had. But not with contracts like Vassell's on the books (hence why I want him salary dumped so badly).

[Seventyniner]

Three maxes is doable if they're not all 35% maxes like Phoenix had. But not with contracts like Vassell's on the books (hence why I want him salary dumped so badly).

Vassell will be on the last year of his contract by the time that might matter, and dumping an expiring contract should be pretty easy. No need to dump him now, or even next summer.

[Das Texan]

Vassell will be on the last year of his contract by the time that might matter, and dumping an expiring contract should be pretty easy. No need to dump him now, or even next summer.

I mean there is also Vassell losing games for the Spurs to consider in any trade.

The sooner he is off the team the sooner the Spurs can really focus on winning.

[scott]

after he wasted 2 first round picks on the 2 guys he packaged to trade for him

Blake and Branham hit about the median expectation of guys picked #20 and #25. This is typically what you get there.

Spurs took a swing at some high upside guards, and they didn't develop. Not only is this something that happens, it's something you should pretty much expect from late FRPs

[scott]

Shams Charania Sham (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17672)sCharania
·
30s
Breaking: Oklahoma City Thunder star and NBA champion Chet Holmgren has agreed to a fully guaranteed five-year maximum rookie contract extension that could reach $250 million, agent Bill Duffy of WME Basketball told ESPN

Wow, really thought they'd get Chet for slightly less than the Max, but instead they got him for the Max that takes up as high as 27% of the cap. As a rival of OKC... love to see it. Presti's first major mistake with this iteration of the Thunder.

[Dejounte]

Blake and Branham hit about the median expectation of guys picked #20 and #25. This is typically what you get there.

Spurs took a swing at some high upside guards, and they didn't develop. Not only is this something that happens, it's something you should pretty much expect from late FRPs

Paging scottspurs who thought every 2nd round prospect was a star in the making during the pre-draft process…

messing with you breh. All in good fun

[scott]

That’s why I think it says “that could reach $250 million”. Sounds to me like maybe there’s going to be some clauses and incentives in there to cover that kind of stuff.

It looks like the 25% max is guaranteed, the "up to $250MM" might be escalator clauses built in, because 5/239 is the current Rookie 25% Max extension (and that is what is reported on Spotrac). So Chet will need to make All NBA, win MVP or DPOY this year for that to escalate up to $250MM.

But even with it only at 5/239, this deal still takes him over 25% because of the 7% salary cap increase next year, and Spotrac is only forecasting 5% increases to the cap after that.

All of a sudden, when we thought that deals with max bird raises would mean they were declining deals as a % of the cap, are actually increasing deals. This is going to cause a major shift in how teams approach things (putting this in bold because I think it's important)

[RC_Drunkford]

Dollar Tree Wemby is a type that you can’t just go get in the draft or the FA market.

Pulling for JWill to make All NBA this season to really throw a wrench in their cap/apron. :cooldevil

1942955381409632301

[RedAzSa]

I love the Holmgren extension for two reasons. First, it makes it that much harder for them to keep a dominant team together long term. Second, it will give the Spurs a valuable case study of maxing their three young core pieces and trying to sustain success in the apron era. Obviously there is a lot of projection and speculation involved here, but IF Castle/Harper are the players we hope they can be, the Spurs might find themselves in a similar boat in a few years. I'd expect the FO to watch OKC very closely and learn what does and what doesn't work for them over the next few years.

[Seventyniner]

I hope the Spurs are in this situation 3-4 years from now. That's what you call a high quality problem cause it would mean both Castle and Harper are good enough to command the max, but you still can't keep both + Wemby.

I wonder what kind of return Chet or J Will could get in a trade? Each are more valuable than Bane.

[scottspurs]

Paging scottspurs (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17106) who thought every 2nd round prospect was a star in the making during the pre-draft process…

messing with you breh. All in good fun

If I worked for Brian Wright he would never let me be great with my 2nd round “steals” lol

[scottspurs]

It is funny though! That the Spurs have 3 roster spots open now haha

[RC_Drunkford]

the best thing to hope for is that Castle can somehow be extended for less than the max, while still improving and not getting injured. Hard to pull off, but maybe they can hide some of his production with Wemby, Fox and Harper getting touches.

[ace3g]

Shams Charania ShamsCharania
·
47m
The Philadelphia 76ers are signing former Spurs and Hawks forward Dominick Barlow on a two-way NBA contract, Life Sports Agency CEO Todd Ramasar tells ESPN.

[scott]

the best thing to hope for is that Castle can somehow be extended for less than the max, while still improving and not getting injured. Hard to pull off, but maybe they can hide some of his production with Wemby, Fox and Harper getting touches.

As I've been trying to say for awhile, I think Fox gives us a bit of a natural safeguard here. It's going to be really difficult for Castle (or Harper) to earn a max extension with Fox featuring ahead of them.

[baseline bum]

Wow, really thought they'd get Chet for slightly less than the Max, but instead they got him for the Max that takes up as high as 27% of the cap. As a rival of OKC... love to see it. Presti's first major mistake with this iteration of the Thunder.

What was he gonna do? Let him walk? Knew he was always getting max.

[baseline bum]

It looks like the 25% max is guaranteed, the "up to $250MM" might be escalator clauses built in, because 5/239 is the current Rookie 25% Max extension (and that is what is reported on Spotrac). So Chet will need to make All NBA, win MVP or DPOY this year for that to escalate up to $250MM.

But even with it only at 5/239, this deal still takes him over 25% because of the 7% salary cap increase next year, and Spotrac is only forecasting 5% increases to the cap after that.

All of a sudden, when we thought that deals with max bird raises would mean they were declining deals as a % of the cap, are actually increasing deals. This is going to cause a major shift in how teams approach things (putting this in bold because I think it's important)

Thank the Dotard Recession

[Kindergarten Cop]

What was he gonna do? Let him walk? Knew he was always getting max.

I agree that this was always the likelihood, but didn't OKC have the luxury of waiting the year out (or any time along the way) and still offering the exact same contract if Chet remains healthy and continues along his trajectory? I'm confused why they felt the need to rush this decision.

[Mr. Body]

Only a player like Wemby is worth the max in this environment. Teams are going to be slaughtering themselves with these contracts.

[scott]

What was he gonna do? Let him walk? Knew he was always getting max.

He's not a free agent, so "letting him walk" isn't a risk.

[baseline bum]

He's not a free agent, so "letting him walk" isn't a risk.

I guess you could argue he could tear his achilles or get AIDS this season but otherwise he's a max player.

[ace3g]

Michael Scotto MikeAScotto
·
2h
The Philadelphia 76ers are waiving two-way forward Alex Reese, league sources told Hoopshype
. Reese averaged 16.1 points on 45.1% from the field and 39.3% from 3-point range, 6.9 rebounds, 1.8 blocks, and 1.2 steals for the Delaware Blue Coats and Rip City Remix in the G League.

[scott]

I guess you could argue he could tear his achilles or get AIDS this season but otherwise he's a max player.

Don't need to use your imagination quite as vividly to come up with scenarios where Chet misses significant time, considering he's missed half his games thus far in his career.

We'll see if OKC comes to regret this. My guess is they will (and I'm stoked about that)

[Kindergarten Cop]

I guess you could argue he could tear his achilles or get AIDS this season but otherwise he's a max player.

Or you could argue that he could have a serious Lisfranc injury or fracture his pelvis or have a back injury (all of which have already happened in his short career thus far).

[ChumpDumper]

Michael Scotto MikeAScotto
·
2h
The Philadelphia 76ers are waiving two-way forward Alex Reese, league sources told Hoopshype
. Reese averaged 16.1 points on 45.1% from the field and 39.3% from 3-point range, 6.9 rebounds, 1.8 blocks, and 1.2 steals for the Delaware Blue Coats and Rip City Remix in the G League.

Spent a year working as a bartender and mover? Fun.

[Spurs Brazil]

https://x.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1943000082086760604

[Spurs Brazil]

https://x.com/NBA/status/1943008517549437145

[Leetonidas]

https://x.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1943000082086760604
scott in shambles

[scott]

scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150) in shambles

:lol

tbh, I'll be happy to even see him stay in the league next year. Strong chance he doesn't land anywhere.

or maybe he becomes the next Bill Russell in Boston....... hmmmm. :)

[Dverde]

No Kevin Love please.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1943000082086760604

Guess something happened between June 21st and now.

DLLXJmVBhNM

[heyheymymy]

when sir bass goes to Boston:

https://i.imgflip.com/51cbib.png?a486456

[baseline bum]

Or you could argue that he could have a serious Lisfranc injury or fracture his pelvis or have a back injury (all of which have already happened in his short career thus far).


Don't need to use your imagination quite as vividly to come up with scenarios where Chet misses significant time, considering he's missed half his games thus far in his career.

We'll see if OKC comes to regret this. My guess is they will (and I'm stoked about that)

He'd still cost a max contract in a year

[BatManu20]

Nuggets, Warriors, and Rockets in the same group is a tough draw. Hopefully we can make some noise though.

1943043356226986066

[Mnky]

Nuggets, Warriors, and Rockets in the same group is a tough draw. Hopefully we can make some noise though.

1943043356226986066

That's going to be a bloodbath. At least we are assured one playoff type experience this year. :lol

[exstatic]

Guess something happened between June 21st and now.

DLLXJmVBhNM
His contract officially ended June 30th.

[ace3g]

His contract officially ended June 30th.

Yeah, I forgot he was a FA.

[Trueblood]

IMO the biggest impact this 2nd apron is going to have is that it will drive a larger wedge between the “max” players and the rotational players and fringe all stars. So far we’ve seen teams continue to max out their top talent (Turner and the pacers being the exception that proves the rule) and this Chet extension is further evidence that teams are not going to let their top talent walk. So where does the savings come from? If the max players are going to continue getting huge contracts teams are going to start looking at discounts on the non max players which is going to start driving down their value. Fringe all star types will probably start taking some cuts because the rules on paying all stars will make them casualties of the CBA.

[tbdog]

Chet avg 13p, 9 Reb, 40% from the field, 16% from three, 1.6blk p/g in the finals. Gee. That's the max?

[Dejounte]

I know i cant get over this guy… but i wonder if its possible that theyre just waiting for david duke to come back from his wedding in Europe to sign him to a roster spot

[Ariel]

What was he gonna do? Let him walk? Knew he was always getting max.

I guess you could argue he could tear his achilles or get AIDS this season but otherwise he's a max player.
They could just sit and wait, hoping as time goes by he gets antsy and is willing to take a paycut. His injury history is worrisome, and 200+ million is generational wealth regardless. I'm guessing they just didn't want to play hardball at this time with their core players, and figure they have the assets to work out of any mess they eventually get themselves into. Hard to second guess Presti on this, TBH.

[Darkwaters]

I know i cant get over this guy… but i wonder if its possible that theyre just waiting for david duke to come back from his wedding in Europe to sign him to a roster spot

Am I missing something? Did Duke learn to shoot recently?

[Robz4000]

Devin Booker bout to be paid $1m/game tbh.

[Ariel]

Chet avg 13p, 9 Reb, 40% from the field, 16% from three, 1.6blk p/g in the finals. Gee. That's the max?
It's the role and the timing, he's key to their title aspirations on both ends. Think of it this way: Fox will probably get more (per year), is he more important to the Spurs than Chet is to OKC? Is his contract more likely to age well than Chet's? On paper you definitely want him for less and maybe you can if you play some hardball, but at the end of the day some risks you cannot avoid and I'd rather be OKC and have Chet for 5 years / 250 million than Toronto with Quickley for 5 years / 175 million. It's a crazy day and age.

[baseline bum]

They could just sit and wait, hoping as time goes by he gets antsy and is willing to take a paycut. His injury history is worrisome, and 200+ million is generational wealth regardless. I'm guessing they just didn't want to play hardball at this time with their core players, and figure they have the assets to work out of any mess they eventually get themselves into. Hard to second guess Presti on this, TBH.

This. What's the point playing hardball here? Hell even if he tears his achilles next year he will still get max offers next summer so the Thunder not paying him max is just basically saying we don't want him.

[baseline bum]

Devin Booker bout to be paid $1m/game tbh.

Meh Zion's been doing that for years tbh

[mystargtr34]

Chets value goes way beyond counting stats.

Look at any defensive metrics such as number of DFGA and the allowed DFG% he’s like head and shoulders above the league. Ok maybe some of that is the elite defensive guards pressuring the shooter as well but Chet and Wemby are already the two most impactful defensive players on the league.

[scott]

Well, one way to get HOU fans to stop fantasizing over poaching Booker away from PHX is for the Suns to just give him the grossest extension in the history of the league :lol

[Degoat]

Jordan McClaughlin back with the spurs on a 1 year deal per shams

[mo7888]

I guess we resigned our backup PG...$3M for McLaughin

[Kindergarten Cop]

Chets value goes way beyond counting stats.

Look at any defensive metrics such as number of DFGA and the allowed DFG% he’s like head and shoulders above the league. Ok maybe some of that is the elite defensive guards pressuring the shooter as well but Chet and Wemby are already the two most impactful defensive players on the league.

I don't think that anyone in here was arguing Chet's value based off of what he does when he's on the floor. My argument was that even if the likelihood of a max extension was virtually a guarantee ... why the rush of doing it now? OKC still holds his rights and can offer the same exact contract up until the end of this upcoming season, and Chet is obviously going to sign it. While I know that there is a risk for even the healthiest of players to sustain a debilitating injury, Chet has already sustained two MAJOR (and several minor) injuries that has caused him to miss practically half of the games in his career. It's not really unreasonable to see him sustaining another major injury this year and him missing significant time. If that was the case, I don't think that anyone would be upset at OKC for offering him less than the max (even if that meant offering him slightly more thank he could get out on the open market). It's just too much of a risk in my mind and I don't see the benefit of doing it now.

[Kindergarten Cop]

I guess we resigned our backup PG...$3M for McLaughin

Meh, I guess. I was hoping for someone with more upside - but I guess this means that when they made the Fox trade, McLaughin was not just a throw in. It appears that he was someone the Spurs were interested in as well.

[heyheymymy]

Yeah McLaughlin seems underwhelming but with the so much of the ball promised to Fox/Castle/Harper you really just need backup depth insurance at that point

[Darkwaters]

Meh, I guess. I was hoping for someone with more upside - but I guess this means that when they made the Fox trade, McLaughin was not just a throw in. It appears that he was someone the Spurs were interested in as well.

Matt Bonner was a throw-in with the Rasho Nesterovic trade. It didn’t stop him from spending a decade in San Antonio.

Sometimes you get a closer look at a guy in a situation like that and it just works out.

[jesterbobman]

I think with young guards with promise, you want certainty of solid and happy to sit. If our guard rotation was CP and Steph going into the season, I'd want a bigger swing, but with Fox and Harper, you need someone to sit, and be OK, supporting the team from the bench, then play competently. I think they looked at Rollins as a combo of upside and role, but didn't want to commit 3 years / rest of the MLE / BAE, especially as they were waiting for sorting out big man depth.

Perfectly fine move.

[RC_Drunkford]

We now got 13 solid rotation players. Wouldn‘t mind adding a young project wing to the roster.

[tbdog]

It's the role and the timing, he's key to their title aspirations on both ends. Think of it this way: Fox will probably get more (per year), is he more important to the Spurs than Chet is to OKC? Is his contract more likely to age well than Chet's? On paper you definitely want him for less and maybe you can if you play some hardball, but at the end of the day some risks you cannot avoid and I'd rather be OKC and have Chet for 5 years / 250 million than Toronto with Quickley for 5 years / 175 million. It's a crazy day and age.

Well Quickley is an overpaid, small guard. Chet has that unique skill set where he can shoot 3s and protect the rim. There a few out there that can. But he is not a two way player and would likely have a Brook Lopez like career. Perhaps not even remotely better offensively that Brook who never earned a max.

[exstatic]

They could just sit and wait, hoping as time goes by he gets antsy and is willing to take a paycut. His injury history is worrisome, and 200+ million is generational wealth regardless. I'm guessing they just didn't want to play hardball at this time with their core players, and figure they have the assets to work out of any mess they eventually get themselves into. Hard to second guess Presti on this, TBH.

They don’t want it to go into restricted free agency next summer, because a number of teams put aside cap room. Totally the opposite of this year.

[exstatic]

We now got 13 solid rotation players. Wouldn‘t mind adding a young project wing to the roster.

David Jones Garcia has piqued my interest.

[SpurSpike]

David Jones Garcia has piqued my interest.

Same here, I think he gets a contract. We are kinda thin on young developing talent after trading our second round pick, Blake and Brenham. Dude has been dropping solid numbers averaging 24.5 points.

[exstatic]

Same here, I think he gets a contract. We are kinda thin on young developing talent after trading our second round pick, Blake and Brenham. Dude has been dropping solid numbers averaging 24.5 points.

Seems like he can shoot, too. His listed height is 6’6”, so he’s got wingish size.

[R. DeMurre]

Well Quickley is an overpaid, small guard. Chet has that unique skill set where he can shoot 3s and protect the rim. There a few out there that can. But he is not a two way player and would likely have a Brook Lopez like career. Perhaps not even remotely better offensively that Brook who never earned a max.

Quickley's measurements are almost identical to Fox's-- do you consider Fox to be a small guard? Or do you just mean small compared to Chet?
This is why I'm slightly concerned with the notion of extending Fox to the tune of roughly $55mil/year. Quickley makes $35mil/yr, is considered by some to be overpaid, and is younger than Fox, with slightly better impact numbers. Fox has never had a BPM above 3.0, which is very rare for a star player, and for his career he barely registers as a net positive player. He has the raw numbers of a star, but definitely not the advanced stats of one.

[Mr. Body]

Quickley's measurements are almost identical to Fox's-- do you consider Fox to be a small guard? Or do you just mean small compared to Chet?
This is why I'm slightly concerned with the notion of extending Fox to the tune of roughly $55mil/year. Quickley makes $35mil/yr, is considered by some to be overpaid, and is younger than Fox, with slightly better impact numbers. Fox has never had a BPM above 3.0, which is very rare for a star player, and for his career he barely registers as a net positive player. He has the raw numbers of a star, but definitely not the advanced stats of one.

Yeah. I'm not going to say giving Fox the max will be done horrible mistake, but it's going to have really difficult repercussions for us. The reason he was traded was that the Kings didn't want to max him. He'd still be there otherwise. Not giving him the max may be the smartest thing they've done for a while although the rest is questionable.

I fear that in two or three years we're going to regret this.

[Notorious H.O.P.]

They don’t want it to go into restricted free agency next summer, because a number of teams put aside cap room. Totally the opposite of this year.

Restricted free agency wouldn't make a difference if they are planning on maxing him. They would pay less if Chet signed an offer sheet and they matched it. Paying him now is a goodwill move toward Chet and a notice to potential future free agents that the Thunder will take care of them.

[scottspurs]

I’m guessing the Spurs will keep one roster spot open for flexibility and not fill it out until they break camp. That leaves one roster spot and I wouldn’t be surprised if it was given to somebody who impresses in summer league. Could be from the Spurs summer league roster or another team. Jones-Garcia is probably the frontrunner right now with Riley Minix and Harrison Ingram also in the mix. Dark horse for a roster spot or two-way would be Chibuzo Agbo because of his shooting.

[Ariel]

They don’t want it to go into restricted free agency next summer, because a number of teams put aside cap room. Totally the opposite of this year.
Maybe, but I'm sure Chet doesn't want to wait either given his injury history, and there are months to negotiate still on a possible extension. Bottom line I think OKC had more margin here than they chose to use, they probably see a window and don't want to mess with it.

[LeBowen]

Yeah. I'm not going to say giving Fox the max will be done horrible mistake, but it's going to have really difficult repercussions for us.

Only if his contract becomes by 2029 when Harper's extension kicks in.
I don't think it will happen and moving 32 year old Fox with 2 years left on his contract (if he gets a 5 year max) shouldn't be that difficult. Even easier if he takes a 4 year deal.
Some fans might say we won't get a lot for him, but acquiring him for cheap and getting 4 prime years out of him is good enough even if he just gets salary dumped.


The reason he was traded was that the Kings didn't want to max him. He'd still be there otherwise.

Depends on which side you believe.
If I was an all-star I'd have serious doubts about extending with one of the worst franchises in the league and wasting my prime without even making the playoffs.

I know you're low on Fox and you obviously have a right to have an opinion, but your narratives are awful, I'm not going to pretend I forgot about you calling Fox an undersized, inefficent chucker who plays no defense.
Your opinions in these situations can't really be taken seriously.

[baseline bum]

Yeah. I'm not going to say giving Fox the max will be done horrible mistake, but it's going to have really difficult repercussions for us. The reason he was traded was that the Kings didn't want to max him. He'd still be there otherwise. Not giving him the max may be the smartest thing they've done for a while although the rest is questionable.

I fear that in two or three years we're going to regret this.

Where are you seeing this? I read he wanted out because he wasn't going to be supermax eligible there by not making an All-NBA team playing for a loser. Thankfully the Spurs can't offer him an elevator to 35%.

[spurraider21]

David Jones Garcia has piqued my interest.
its pretty rare for summer league players like this to get NBA contracts. we did it with jonathon simmons... but he wasnt just a summer league guy, he had played in the gleague for austin so the spurs already had their eye on him before signing him (oddly enough, off the Nets summer league team). jones-garcia did play in the gleague last year, but never for the spurs

this is the type of guy who would typically play themselves into a 2-way contract first. but given we still have 2 open roster spots, i guess anything is possible

[scott]

Where are you seeing this? I read he wanted out because he wasn't going to be supermax eligible there by not making an All-NBA team playing for a loser. Thankfully the Spurs can't offer him an elevator to 35%.

The Kings reportedly offered him a max extension already, and he declined it to see if he could become SuperMax eligible and because he wanted to see if the team would get serious about building a winning team.

[spurraider21]

well, after sending out Blake and Bran for Olynyk, we now have 3 roster spots open in addition to the 2-way spots

names i find interesting, assuming we just want low maintenence vets (cant speak to price points given we are 8.5mil below the tax line):

DeAnthony Melton
Malcolm Brogdon
Gary Patyon II
Jordan McLaughlin
Cory Joseph
Alec Burks
Seth Curry
Amir Coffey
Torrey Craig

if they wanted to stash away an upside player who can be on the roster but spend a lot of time in austin, Jalen Hood-Schifino is still out there
one down. i dont think melton/brogdon would want such minimal roles, they'll latch on elsewhere. with mclaughlin squarely being a PG, that would also rule out CoJo reunion. ideally want more shooting from end of bench vets, so Burks/Curry/Coffey/Craig all still intrigue me.

i still think JHS is very much worthy add to at least a two-way, if not just giving him the 15th spot and letting him chill in Austin while being paid like an NBA player. i know its a redundant position but he's still pretty talented and has shot it straight in the gleague

[exstatic]

He was with the unaffiliated Mexico City Capitans, and he did well. I think he’d be a good wing project, but maybe the Spurs don’t feel the same.

[Mr. Body]

Where are you seeing this? I read he wanted out because he wasn't going to be supermax eligible there by not making an All-NBA team playing for a loser. Thankfully the Spurs can't offer him an elevator to 35%.

He was trying to get his max from Sacramento and after they dragged their feet he started pushing (and Klutch started pushing) to get him to SA.

[RC_Drunkford]

He wanted out after they fired Mike Brown. Had nothing to do with his contract. Y‘all just be making shit up all the time.

[Chinook]

its pretty rare for summer league players like this to get NBA contracts. we did it with jonathon simmons... but he wasnt just a summer league guy, he had played in the gleague for austin so the spurs already had their eye on him before signing him (oddly enough, off the Nets summer league team). jones-garcia did play in the gleague last year, but never for the spurs

this is the type of guy who would typically play themselves into a 2-way contract first. but given we still have 2 open roster spots, i guess anything is possible

Wasn't Gary Neal also signed from SL, or did he go into SL already on a contract?

The Spurs should offer whatever contract gets him to agree. I could see him getting a Champagnie Special.

[spurraider21]

Wasn't Gary Neal also signed from SL, or did he go into SL already on a contract?

The Spurs should offer whatever contract gets him to agree. I could see him getting a Champagnie Special.
neal was before the time of two-way contracts though. maybe even simmons, i dont remember the timing

but yes i love the champaigne/bassey special

[scott]

Gary Neal was signed to an NBA Contract on July 22, 2010 (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nealga01.html), by then he had already completed the Summer League with the Spurs, helping them to a 5-0 record. He started 4 of 5 games, averaged a team-high 16.0 ppg and made 17 of his 34 3pt attempts (https://towsontigers.com/news/2010/7/16/Gary_Neal_Scores_Big_in_NBA_Summer_League)

[Dejounte]

So can we steal Dort from the Thunder? Or Caruso?

[spurraider21]

1943383916435640356

[Seventyniner]

So can we steal Dort from the Thunder? Or Caruso?

Not yet. The Thunder will be fine this next year while Chet and J Will are still on their rookie scale contracts. Next summer at the earliest is when they will start to offload their higher priced role players.

[ace3g]

Shams Charania
Breaking: Oklahoma City Thunder All-NBA star and champion Jalen Williams has agreed to a five-year maximum rookie contract extension that could reach $287 million, agents Bill Duffy and Justin Haynes of WME Basketball told ESPN.

[itzsoweezee]

He was trying to get his max from Sacramento and after they dragged their feet he started pushing (and Klutch started pushing) to get him to SA.

You’ve got it backwards. It was Fox, not the Kings, who was dragging his feet

[scott]

So Jalen Williams gets the full SuperMax escalator (which he still must earn this coming season) while Chet gets a partial.

I do think it is worth point out that because of how the 2026-27 salary cap increase came in at 7% AND how Spotrac is currently forecasting only 5% cap increases after that, even if these players do not hit their escalator clauses, extensions with max Bird raises are now *increasing* contracts as a % of the cap (and beyond 25% for rookie max players).

The extensions for Paolo, Chet and JWill now look like this as a % of the cap:

2026-27: 25.00%
2027-28: 25.71%
2028-29: 26.30%
2029-30: 26.78%
2030:31: 27.15%

This is something to watch out for with the Spurs and Fox's extension. If he signs a 30% max deal with full 8% Bird Raises, his % of the cap would project to look like this:

4 years/$222MM

26-27: $49.6MM 30.0%
27-28: $53.6MM 30.9%
28-29: $57.6MM 31.6%
29-30: $61.6MM 32.1%

I think it is not likely, but I think there is a small outside chance and I hope this is what Fox and the Spurs agree to: a 8% raise in year 2, then a (max allowable) 10% decline in years 3 and 4 with year 4 being a player option:

3+1(PO)/$196MM

26-27: $49.6MM 30.0%
27-28: $53.6MM 30.9%
28-29: $48.6MM 26.7%
29-30: $43.7MM 22.8%

This would be about as "team friendly" as it can get for the Spurs, while still giving Fox maximum money for the first two years of the deal and giving him a player option to opt out in 2029 when he'll be eligible for a 35% max by virtue of years of service.

[Dejounte]

https://x.com/bzzaragoza50/status/1943378799376138358?s=46

[duncan2150]

one down. i dont think melton/brogdon would want such minimal roles, they'll latch on elsewhere. with mclaughlin squarely being a PG, that would also rule out CoJo reunion. ideally want more shooting from end of bench vets, so Burks/Curry/Coffey/Craig all still intrigue me.

i still think JHS is very much worthy add to at least a two-way, if not just giving him the 15th spot and letting him chill in Austin while being paid like an NBA player. i know its a redundant position but he's still pretty talented and has shot it straight in the gleague

Shamet looks interesting too if we want a shooter.

[scott]

https://x.com/bzzaragoza50/status/1943378799376138358?s=46

Mamu, sweet prince :cry

[Mr. Body]

You’ve got it backwards. It was Fox, not the Kings, who was dragging his feet

Right, because he wanted the bigger money that they didn't want to give him.

[Vienna]

Seems like he can shoot, too. His listed height is 6’6”, so he’s got wingish size.

measured 6´3.5“ at the combine in 2024……..smaller than Branham……wingspan at 6´6.75“ is not that good either.

[Spurs Brazil]

ShamsCharania
·

Free agent Marvin Bagley III has agreed to a one-year deal with the Washington Wizards, sources tell ESPN. Bagley returns to the Wizards after playing in Washington for a year (2024-25) and then being traded to Memphis at the February deadline.

[RC_Drunkford]

Jones-Garcia was dominating in the G-League last season too. I guess he'll get a 2-way, but the Spurs should really consider a longterm Champagnie type deal.

6-6 with a 6-10 wingspan, 23 years old, averaged 24.5 PPG 7.5 RPG 3.2 AST 1.5 STL on 48/35/91


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiV5TtZFgDs

[Indianman]

How are we not discussing the 70-odd million Devin Booker just commanded for 2 years?!?!