Official 2016 Summer League Thread

[raybies]

I don't think Murray plays winning ball. People jizzing all over him and shitting on Simmons have short memories. I'm not giving up on Dejounte, obviously. But right now, he's a ball hog who can't defend to save his life.

True, true, and true, but think that's why him being drafted by this organization will help change his culture. I know if he wants minutes he'll have to play defense with pop. But to start a career it was like a story book beginning.imo

[emanueldavidginobili]

I don't think Murray plays winning ball. People jizzing all over him and shitting on Simmons have short memories. I'm not giving up on Dejounte, obviously. But right now, he's a ball hog who can't defend to save his life.
He's a 19 year old kid who only has played 1 season of Div 1 basketball and hasn't played since the NIT. Obviously he was amped up. He made nothing turn into something during some plays. He's playing for the Spurs organization he will be fine atleast wait until the kid is old enough to drink until you judge him lol

[raybies]

:lol so you're disappointed with his summer league debut?

Chinook having to be a party pooper. :lol

[Chinook]

:lol so you're disappointed with his summer league debut?

Actually disappointed in STers for cheering the wrong things. I've never seen a more anti-Spur player on an SL team. Maybe Denmon that second go-around where he was so desperate to be noticed that he was a cancer. I'm glad that Murray was efficient in his attempts tonight, but we already know he's not normally that efficient. So you have to look at how he fits into a team context, and I'd say it didn't look good so far. You don't expect a rookie to come in and do everything right, obviously. But he's like the Bizarro Arcidiacono right now. Everything that Arc does right, Murray does wrong, and vice versa.

[dabom]

Maybe we should start west even when HE SHIT THE BED IN THE PLAYOFFS.

I wonder who would even say that. Shitty posters who don't know basketball. :lmao

[BillMc]

Outside of a couple jumpers, I thought he went with the flow and attacked the basket efficiently. Defense definitely needs work, I agree.

This just in Coach Nick says "Dejounte Murray can be a Lock Down Defender as Good as Tony Parker."

[objective]

I've been dubious about Murray in a very big way due to his on court red flags and analytics. And of course distraught and frustrated when my guy, who I am confident will make the league, was passed up.

But hopefully the project Murray makes me wonder why I ever doubted.

[ceperez]

He's a 19 year old kid who only has played 1 season of Div 1 basketball and hasn't played since the NIT. Obviously he was amped up. He made nothing turn into something during some plays. He's playing for the Spurs organization he will be fine atleast wait until the kid is old enough to drink until you judge him lol

He's going the same route that Cojo took... straight to Austin this year and the next. So don't get too excited.

[dabom]

This just in Coach Nick says "Dejounte Murray can be a Lock Down Defender as Good as Tony Parker."

He already got Tony beat tbh. :lol

[Chinook]

He's a 19 year old kid who only has played 1 season of Div 1 basketball and hasn't played since the NIT. Obviously he was amped up. He made nothing turn into something during some plays. He's playing for the Spurs organization he will be fine atleast wait until the kid is old enough to drink until you judge him lol

Lol, if I were jizzing all over myself about him, you wouldn't care about me "judging him". I said nothing about writing him off. You can see a ton of talent there. But this wasn't the game people think it was. He isn't displacing anyone in the rotation based on performances like these.

[TheGreatYacht]

Maybe we should start west even when HE SHIT THE BED IN THE PLAYOFFS.

I wonder who would even say that. Shitty posters who don't know basketball. :lmao
Eh, Duncan was just as bad tbh. I can see why you would want length on the bench when Kanter comes in...

[Floyd Pacquiao]

I've seen some highlights of Murray's first game on twitter & I can already tell he's the best point guard on the squad

[dabom]

Maybe we should start west even when HE SHIT THE BED IN THE PLAYOFFS.

I wonder who would even say that. Shitty posters who don't know basketball. :lmao

[BillMc]

Actually disappointed in STers for cheering the wrong things. I've never seen a more anti-Spur player on an SL team. Maybe Denmon that second go-around where he was so desperate to be noticed that he was a cancer. I'm glad that Murray was efficient in his attempts tonight, but we already know he's not normally that efficient. So you have to look at how he fits into a team context, and I'd say it didn't look good so far. You don't expect a rookie to come in and do everything right, obviously. But he's like the Bizarro Arcidiacono right now. Everything that Arc does right, Murray does wrong, and vice versa.

A point guard who can get to the rim. We've been after that since Tony lost a step. No idea about his court vision, and we know Chip will have to work on his shot, and Pop on his decision making. But the dude's 19. The talent is evident. No guarantees of course. But you're really disappointed with this debut?

[dabom]

Eh, Duncan was just as bad tbh. I can see why you would want length on the bench when Kanter comes in...

Duncan was not as bad. What are you smoking dude. We came back with Duncan playing.

[Floyd Pacquiao]

If he has the drive of Kawhi then he well be a star in 2 years tops.

[Chinook]

Basically this. He'll be reigned in or sit on the bench. He has a park game. Obvious talent though

I'm really surprised other people are ignoring it. The dude doesn't pass. I mean, I know we talking about Parker not passing. But seriously, Murray doesn't pass.

[Mnky]

I don't think Murray plays winning ball. People jizzing all over him and shitting on Simmons have short memories. I'm not giving up on Dejounte, obviously. But right now, he's a ball hog who can't defend to save his life.

He had a few Great help defense possessions and played average defense all game. Theres no reason to pass it if you can walk a layup in. His size allows him to extend beyond his defenders reach.

[SAGirl]

Actually good learning experience for Murray on that 3 point foul. Perfect timing. He'll remember it, even though this game is meaningless. (Unless you care about SL titles0>
I care about the learning experiences that is why I wanted Anderson and Simmons to play up to Vegas and all. SL titles are meaningless, but coaches won't forget bad play.. they will show it to you and motivate you to improve. It wasn't just the fouling by Murray at the end, he lost the guy for no reason, looking around to see what was happening, when he could have just stuck to his man to deniy the pass... just doesn't know how to play yet.

If he's doing the same thing next season, then he's in trouble.

[r0drig0lac]

I don't think Murray plays winning ball. People jizzing all over him and shitting on Simmons have short memories. I'm not giving up on Dejounte, obviously. But right now, he's a ball hog who can't defend to save his life.

wtf

[BillMc]

He already got Tony beat tbh. :lol
:lol

[sasaint]

I agree. Right now they are basically the same, except one will be 20 to start the season and the other 27. They both like to slash, might be risky defensively and risky with a TO too. But the rookie is bound to get better, the other will stay the same.

That's exactly how I see them.

[dabom]

I'm really surprised other people are ignoring it. The dude doesn't pass. I mean, I know we talking about Parker not passing. But seriously, Murray doesn't pass.

Did you want him running the offense when he just joined the team you stupid fuck. :lmao

[wildbill2u]

They wanted Simmons to play a lot of minutes in SL to see what he had learned and how his game has developed. As much as I'm pulling for the guy, he makes terrible decisions. Nobody who makes 9 TOs in a game against SL competition is really capable of playing big minutes in the NBA. That;s why his minutes dropped last season after the coaches got a read on him. Apparently he learned nothing. Still puttting his head down and trying to bull through. Sometimes it works and he does have an ability to finish--but his passing and handle are still subpar.

[BillMc]

I care about the learning experiences that is why I wanted Anderson and Simmons to play up to Vegas and all. SL titles are meaningless, but coaches won't forget bad play.. they will show it to you and motivate you to improve. It wasn't just the fouling by Murray at the end, he lost the guy for no reason, looking around to see what was happening, when he could have just stuck to his man to deniy the pass... just doesn't know how to play yet.

If he's doing the same thing next season, then he's in trouble.

True. And Pop (and as soon as Vegas, Becky) will let him know it.

[td4mvp2k]

This just in Coach Nick says "Dejounte Murray can be a Lock Down Defender as Good as Tony Parker."

lol if thats right then they made a mistake tbh

[Mr. Body]

Actually disappointed in STers for cheering the wrong things. I've never seen a more anti-Spur player on an SL team. Maybe Denmon that second go-around where he was so desperate to be noticed that he was a cancer. I'm glad that Murray was efficient in his attempts tonight, but we already know he's not normally that efficient. So you have to look at how he fits into a team context, and I'd say it didn't look good so far. You don't expect a rookie to come in and do everything right, obviously. But he's like the Bizarro Arcidiacono right now. Everything that Arc does right, Murray does wrong, and vice versa.

Maybe the staff told him to get out there and get to the hole to get a feel for this level? Good Christ, jump off a bridge already.

[Mnky]

I'm really surprised other people are ignoring it. The dude doesn't pass. I mean, I know we talking about Parker not passing. But seriously, Murray doesn't pass.

Let's also mention his high efficiency, which means his choice not to pass was arguably the best choice to make.

[emanueldavidginobili]

He's going the same route that Cojo took... straight to Austin this year and the next. So don't get too excited.
Cojo turned out just fine and id take him on this team right now any day.

[SAGirl]

I'm really surprised other people are ignoring it. The dude doesn't pass. I mean, I know we talking about Parker not passing. But seriously, Murray doesn't pass.
Doesn't have a PG type game. Could be a project for Pop if he tries to turn him into something else. Russell Westbrook project type? Caveat: I missed the first half so I really didn't see the entire game.

[Chinook]

A point guard who can get to the rim. We've been after that since Tony lost a step. No idea about his court vision, and we know Chip will have to work on his shot, and Pop on his decision making. But the dude's 19. The talent is evident. No guarantees of course. But you're really disappointed with this debut?

I'm not disappointed. I'm just not excited. I'm satisfied that he looks like he can physically play minutes in the NBA (which wasn't obvious based on scouting reports). He's a project, and I think he showed he's worth the investment. But people thinking he makes Simmons expendable are way off base (and I am like the biggest Simmons critic on here). And especially over Patty. He'd stick out like a sore thumb on the real club right now. We're not used to low-efficiency chuckers, as much as certain posters assume we have one starting now.

[Juan]

Actually disappointed in STers for cheering the wrong things. I've never seen a more anti-Spur player on an SL team. Maybe Denmon that second go-around where he was so desperate to be noticed that he was a cancer. I'm glad that Murray was efficient in his attempts tonight, but we already know he's not normally that efficient. So you have to look at how he fits into a team context, and I'd say it didn't look good so far. You don't expect a rookie to come in and do everything right, obviously. But he's like the Bizarro Arcidiacono right now. Everything that Arc does right, Murray does wrong, and vice versa.


Lol, if I were jizzing all over myself about him, you wouldn't care about me "judging him". I said nothing about writing him off. You can see a ton of talent there. But this wasn't the game people think it was. He isn't displacing anyone in the rotation based on performances like these.


LOL don't worry. This is the same guy who constantly shitted all over Leonard his first two years in the league. Don't even deny it bruh. Constantly downplayed his ability and impact until he got so good you looked like a fool.

[TheGreatYacht]

Did you want him running the offense when he just joined the team you stupid fuck. :lmao
He's talking about the low IQ posters wanting him to start in the NBA. If he won't have the ball in his hands, he's useless. He can't shoot. He's a project and he won't go against Terry fucking Rozier every night.

[Mr. Body]

They wanted Simmons to play a lot of minutes in SL to see what he had learned and how his game has developed. As much as I'm pulling for the guy, he makes terrible decisions. Nobody who makes 9 TOs in a game against SL competition is really capable of playing big minutes in the NBA. That;s why his minutes dropped last season after the coaches got a read on him. Apparently he learned nothing. Still puttting his head down and trying to bull through. Sometimes it works and he does have an ability to finish--but his passing and handle are still subpar.

He got one turnover tonight. Maybe that's what they wanted him to work on the most? Not worry about shooting percentages or whatever? When will people realize the SL is an incubator and learning environment?

[Mugen]

Actually disappointed in STers for cheering the wrong things. I've never seen a more anti-Spur player on an SL team. Maybe Denmon that second go-around where he was so desperate to be noticed that he was a cancer. I'm glad that Murray was efficient in his attempts tonight, but we already know he's not normally that efficient. So you have to look at how he fits into a team context, and I'd say it didn't look good so far. You don't expect a rookie to come in and do everything right, obviously. But he's like the Bizarro Arcidiacono right now. Everything that Arc does right, Murray does wrong, and vice versa.

I just watched Fathead and Simmons hero ball every time they touched the rock tonight but Dejounte looked anti-Spur?

Kid is 19yo, just signed his contract today, and balls out in his NBA debut and you expect more? He'll have plenty of time to learn the system when he's in Austin this upcoming season. Summer league isn't really the best place to judge bball IQ but he definitely passed the athleticism test from what I saw.

And tbh if the "Spur" definition of PG play is to be foreign and unathletic, I'd want Murray to be as anti-Spur as possible....

[Chinook]

Let's also mention his high efficiency, which means his choice not to pass was arguably the best choice to make.

Lol. I'm sure he'll think that when he's shooting in the 30s as well.

[Atl Spur]

This was the BEST possible outcome.... I'll explain. This ending will serve two fold hopefully in the young pups development. He rolled out of bed with the skills he displayed to today ( which were impressive ) but now pop has a teachable moment opportunity for him! Remain humble and focused at all times because if you don't the NBA will eat you alive. Defense needs work ( Keep your hands up to face guard or make him shoot over your outstretch hands; don't try to ever block a jumpshot ) and quit going under screens!!
Offense he will refine with chip, pop, and reps!
I like the kid, he has fire and you can't teach that aka Kawhi Leonard!

[Spur-Addict]

I'm really surprised other people are ignoring it. The dude doesn't pass. I mean, I know we talking about Parker not passing. But seriously, Murray doesn't pass.

Perhaps the staff has something to do with this. They could've said just go out there and play. But you could see the change in chemistry early on that had an effect on overall team play. I'm sure he'll be instructed to alter certain aspects of his game.

[SAGirl]

I'm not disappointed. I'm just not excited. I'm satisfied that he looks like he can physically play minutes in the NBA (which wasn't obvious based on scouting reports). He's a project, and I think he showed he's worth the investment. But people thinking he makes Simmons expendable are way off base (and I am like the biggest Simmons critic on here). And especially over Patty. He'd stick out like a sore thumb on the real club right now. We're not used to low-efficiency chuckers, as much as certain posters assume we have one starting now.
I do think he makes Simmons expendable because I considered Simmons a project anyways. One is going to be 20 and the other is 27.

[Mnky]

I care about the learning experiences that is why I wanted Anderson and Simmons to play up to Vegas and all. SL titles are meaningless, but coaches won't forget bad play.. they will show it to you and motivate you to improve. It wasn't just the fouling by Murray at the end, he lost the guy for no reason, looking around to see what was happening, when he could have just stuck to his man to deniy the pass... just doesn't know how to play yet.

If he's doing the same thing next season, then he's in trouble.

That was help defense he left his man for. Like you said good experience. A big shot loss will teach better than a speech.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Lol, if I were jizzing all over myself about him, you wouldn't care about me "judging him". I said nothing about writing him off. You can see a ton of talent there. But this wasn't the game people think it was. He isn't displacing anyone in the rotation based on performances like these.
Of course not, not at 19 years old but he is still shows some potential for the future and that's all that matters.

[dabom]

Tony Parker all he ever needed to do was drive. Not pass. Not shot the 3. Not shoot the jumper. Not defend. He just needed the drive.

He doesn't have it.

This kid has that. And very very young. I can live the mistakes as long as he gets better. I heard the same shit about Kawhi until he had a full arsenal.

This kid will continue to improve and the posters will keep moving the goalpost.

[SAGirl]

I do think there was an element of just letting Dijon play freely, he hadn't practiced with the team due to contract issues and doesn't know these dudes at all. So he came in and showed his game: basically get to the basket.

[Chinook]

LOL don't worry. This is the same guy who constantly shitted all over Leonard his first two years in the league. Don't even deny it bruh. Constantly downplayed his ability and impact until he got so good you looked like a fool.

I don't think he's a superstar, especially offensively. I've been impressed with him and have admitted he's growing so fast that I'll never again say he can't do something. But no, I didn't shit on Leonard his first two years in the league. If anything, I was a stronger critic after that, when his stock was much higher.

[Kurik]

From what I can remember Murray wasn't the primary ball handler for many possessions, not to mention Simmons was getting all the plays called for him at the end lol. Hopefully Murray will be asked to run the offense a lot more in Vegas.

[dabom]

Don't be on the wrong side of history guys. Again. :lol

[Mnky]

Lol. I'm sure he'll think that when he's shooting in the 30s as well.

That's pure speculation. What you were shown, says otherwise. I believe he needs to learn to distribute as well, but that game definitely wasn't the reason.

[BillMc]

I'm not disappointed. I'm just not excited. I'm satisfied that he looks like he can physically play minutes in the NBA (which wasn't obvious based on scouting reports). He's a project, and I think he showed he's worth the investment. But people thinking he makes Simmons expendable are way off base (and I am like the biggest Simmons critic on here). And especially over Patty. He'd stick out like a sore thumb on the real club right now. We're not used to low-efficiency chuckers, as much as certain posters assume we have one starting now.

Okay, cheers. I respect your points. But I'm excited. Kid has talent.

[Mnky]

Tony Parker all he ever needed to do was drive. Not pass. Not shot the 3. Not shoot the jumper. Not defend. He just needed the drive.

He doesn't have it.

This kid has that. And very very young. I can live the mistakes as long as he gets better. I heard the same shit about Kawhi until he had a full arsenal.

This kid will continue to improve and the posters will keep moving the goalpost.

I agree on Parker. He was a great guard, but he didn't have much responsibility at all for years.

[TheGreatYacht]

From what I can remember Murray wasn't the primary ball handler for many possessions, not to mention Simmons was getting all the plays called for him at the end lol. Hopefully Murray will be asked to run the offense a lot more in Vegas.
Hopefully he'll take the ball away from fat head in the 4th. Pretty sure he went 1/14 in the last two games.

[sasaint]

I'm really surprised other people are ignoring it. The dude doesn't pass. I mean, I know we talking about Parker not passing. But seriously, Murray doesn't pass.

He didn't pass - this game. The way it worked out, it wasn't really necessary. I will be watching that next game with acute interest. He is nowhere near NBA-ready after one game. But Tony wasn't a passer when he arrived, either. He isn't much of one now.

[ceperez]

From what I can remember Murray wasn't the primary ball handler for many possessions, not to mention Simmons was getting all the plays called for him at the end lol. Hopefully Murray will be asked to run the offense a lot more in Vegas.

run the offense?! Are you kidding me?

[dabom]

Hopefully he'll take the ball away from fat head in the 4th. Pretty sure he went 1/14 in the last two games.

:lol

[Atl Spur]

If this kid is coachable and barring an catastrophic injury, he will be something special.......book it! I am really more worried about off the court stuff concerning 19 year old millionaires!

[Chinook]

I just watched Fathead and Simmons hero ball every time they touched the rock tonight but Dejounte looked anti-Spur?

Kid is 19yo, just signed his contract today, and balls out in his NBA debut and you expect more? He'll have plenty of time to learn the system when he's in Austin this upcoming season. Summer league isn't really the best place to judge bball IQ but he definitely passed the athleticism test from what I saw.

And tbh if the "Spur" definition of PG play is to be foreign and unathletic, I'd want Murray to be as anti-Spur as possible....

See, it's funny that people lol at guys like Crawford and Westbrook all the time for their shot-selection and then think it's great if Murray does it. I get that he's a rookie and will hopefully learn. But as I said, people have short memories. We just saw Simmons absolutely dominate two nights ago. Now that he had an off night, people are acting like it doesn't matter. But Murray isn't an efficient player. I'm glad he shot well today, but he'll likely have sub-40 games where he shoots just as often, and then people will notice and comment. But he won't be any different than he was tonight. Probability will just not be on his side then.

[Kurik]

run the offense?! Are you kidding me?

Anybody off the street can run basic sets, whether or not they can do it well is another thing.

[Atl Spur]

Pop will help reign in that decision making.

[Chinook]

That's pure speculation. What you were shown, says otherwise.

Okay, let's just be clear: No. He's had other games besides this to see where he is currently. He has to develop. That's cool. Completely understandable. But don't act like he's a different player than he is just to try to strawman me.

[Atl Spur]

He will break him down and build him back up if the kid allows; this is the BEST possible situation for him to maximize his talents!

[Chinook]

He is nowhere near NBA-ready after one game.

Yeah, but try telling that to the people in this thread who have said otherwise.

[Chinook]

I do think he makes Simmons expendable because I considered Simmons a project anyways. One is going to be 20 and the other is 27.

Simmons is significantly better right now, and he's currently slotted to be in the rotation between Manu and Anderson. He's not expendable unless they can get someone better to be the 10th man.

[ulosturedge]

Anyone who was watching saw that the talent is there for Murray. That's what everyone is excited about. I know it was only one game but seeing him impose his will was impressive. I guess the haters wanted him to look like Isiah Thomas out there on his debut.

[coachmac87]

Tony Parker all he ever needed to do was drive. Not pass. Not shot the 3. Not shoot the jumper. Not defend. He just needed the drive.

He doesn't have it.

This kid has that. And very very young. I can live the mistakes as long as he gets better. I heard the same shit about Kawhi until he had a full arsenal.

This kid will continue to improve and the posters will keep moving the goalpost.



Honestly by far your best post :toast

[Atl Spur]

Honest and truly it might not be bad to take a look at Hanga....

[coachmac87]

See, it's funny that people lol at guys like Crawford and Westbrook all the time for their shot-selection and then think it's great if Murray does it. I get that he's a rookie and will hopefully learn. But as I said, people have short memories. We just saw Simmons absolutely dominate two nights ago. Now that he had an off night, people are acting like it doesn't matter. But Murray isn't an efficient player. I'm glad he shot well today, but he'll likely have sub-40 games where he shoots just as often, and then people will notice and comment. But he won't be any different than he was tonight. Probability will just not be on his side then.

Are you coming around on Simmons?

[Floyd Pacquiao]

:lol Murray basically played his first game with a bunch of new people and you want to judge his overall game based off that? He's never practiced a spurs set in his life so let's wait to judge if he's a ball hog or not. He basically treated this game like an all star game by the looks of it.

[Chinook]

Perhaps the staff has something to do with this. They could've said just go out there and play. But you could see the change in chemistry early on that had an effect on overall team play. I'm sure he'll be instructed to alter certain aspects of his game.

Of course they just want to see where he is. And I think he flashed his talent. But he also showed his lack of intangibles. As I said, he's the Bizarro Arcidiacono. Ryan has it all ready to go upstairs, but he's just not built for the NBA. He makes everyone around him better, but he himself is not good enough. Murray has everything he needs below the neck to be a 10-year starter. But upstairs is all AU for him right now. Neither of them are rotation players at this point, but obviously Murray is a lot closer. We'll see how he adapts once Becky is his primary coach. She did a good job at making Simmons more focused during the SL last year.

[Atl Spur]

Having a better defender with length may be a good thing at this point.....

[Chinook]

Are you coming around on Simmons?

I think people are being unfair to him. But I still want him to have to compete for his rotation spot.

[Kawhitstorm]

Actually disappointed in STers for cheering the wrong things. I've never seen a more anti-Spur player on an SL team.

Gary Neal was on the SL squad.:lol

[siraulo23]

Murray is exciting to watch on the offensive end, showed brilliance of flashes with his speed/athleticism and finishing ability. You cant teach that, very exciting prospect for the spurs

All other aspects of his game need A LOT of work, but again he is young, but i dont expect him to crack the rotation in the POs as many has already predicted here. His defense is poor, always on the wrong position, caught ball watching and not in a defensive stance. The key for him is obviously developing that jumpshot, but he is gonna be excellent in fast break etc...

This dude has got a lot of learning to do, hopefully he gets some minutes and pop treats him like tp to accelerate his development, he's got a lot of learning to do to play the pg position

[Chinook]

:lol Murray basically played his first game with a bunch of new people and you want to judge his overall game based off that? He's never practiced a spurs set in his life so let's wait to judge if he's a ball hog or not. He basically treated this game like an all star game by the looks of it.

People are acting like he wasn't a low-efficiency chucker in college, too. I think this whole, "It's one game" argument is ridiculous. I'm not the one projecting his future based on his performance tonight. The others are.

[Atl Spur]

Murray will also benefit from being guarded by Kawhi and Danny on the perimeter. Spatial awareness will also come with time and reps.

[ace3g]

751226651938217984

[coachmac87]

I think people are being unfair to him. But I still want him to have to compete for his rotation spot.

They're idiots. Simmons is a lock to make the roster imo

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmNvnbcIsPI&feature=youtu.be

[BillMc]

I think people are being unfair to him. But I still want him to have to compete for his rotation spot.

Changing the subject a bit. Do you think Forbes needs to be blazing hot from the 3 nearly every game to realistically make the team? What's his margin for error? Thanks.

[Mnky]

Okay, let's just be clear: No. He's had other games besides this to see where he is currently. He has to develop. That's cool. Completely understandable. But don't act like he's a different player than he is just to try to strawman me.

This game. You said you saw it from this game.

[Emperor]

I get nervous seeing Murray drive in. One solid push/Horry hip check in the NBA would probably send him flying into the 5th row.

[benefactor]

Sort of early to judge a 19 yr old, but whatever.

[SAGirl]

Lorbek didn't look good out there, but I admittedly saw little of him.
I missed Cady, saw him grab an OBoard, was better than his last game but I really didn't get a grasp for him either.

[Atl Spur]

Strive for greatness young pup; everyone won't understand because there not supposed to!!!

[Kawhitstorm]

See, it's funny that people lol at guys like Crawford and Westbrook all the time for their shot-selection and then think it's great if Murray does it. I get that he's a rookie and will hopefully learn. But as I said, people have short memories. We just saw Simmons absolutely dominate two nights ago. Now that he had an off night, people are acting like it doesn't matter. But Murray isn't an efficient player. I'm glad he shot well today, but he'll likely have sub-40 games where he shoots just as often, and then people will notice and comment. But he won't be any different than he was tonight. Probability will just not be on his side then.

Simmons has a skillset that's good enough to dominate average athletes & disorganized defenses. Murray can breakdown a set defense & get his shot off against anyone even if he's a chucker. Simmons game is day & night based on the competition so it's not a surprise he wet the bed against the only SL team he faced that had NBA quality players.:lol (Murray was being checked by probably the best PG in the SL )

Simmons is basically a poor man's Dion Waiters, Murray should eventually be a more efficient Jamal Crawford that will actually commit to playing defense in the Spurs system.

[Atl Spur]

*they're

[tholdren]

Changing the subject a bit. Do you think Forbes needs to be blazing hot from the 3 nearly every game to realistically make the team? What's his margin for error? Thanks.

No, but he can't shoot 30%, either. He was picked up because he was a shooter, that will hold weight. He shoots 40% and doesn't hesitate with his shots, he will get through.

[Chinook]

Changing the subject a bit. Do you think Forbes needs to be blazing hot from the 3 nearly every game to realistically make the team? What's his margin for error? Thanks.

I think if he shoots decently, he'll make it into camp. After that, he probably just has to beat out whoever is between him and the 15th spot. I like his chances. I think what helps him is that he also scores inside the arc. So even when he's not shooting well from deep, he can find ways to help his team. I think Pop will really appreciate that.

[Chinook]

This game. You said you saw it from this game.

Did you think that was a retort. I saw it this game. You're trying to pretend that that's not who he is. But we already know it is based off his time in college. This game just confirmed that he's still that guy, which is fine since he's been in the organization for all of two weeks.

[siraulo23]

Agreed this dude is 19, he's in the perfect place to develop and learn the game. Hopefully he's got the work ethic and drive to get better, overall not a bad showing for his first game played in a while (i think murray mentioned this iirc)

[coachmac87]

Changing the subject a bit. Do you think Forbes needs to be blazing hot from the 3 nearly every game to realistically make the team? What's his margin for error? Thanks.

I have Forbes making team over LJC IMO lol

[siraulo23]

Lorbek didn't look good out there, but I admittedly saw little of him.
I missed Cady, saw him grab an OBoard, was better than his last game but I really didn't get a grasp for him either.

I didnt even notice Lorbek was playing until late in the game :lol he was that bad and a non factor, so damn slow too, he makes bonner look like steven adams in comparison

[Mnky]

Lorbek didn't look good out there, but I admittedly saw little of him.
I missed Cady, saw him grab an OBoard, was better than his last game but I really didn't get a grasp for him either.

Cady has been so underwhelming.

[Chinook]

Murray can breakdown a set defense & get his shot off against anyone even if he's a chucker.

I think you're being generous with your description of Murray's current game. He's been a low-efficiency guy for a while now. He can get his shot off in the sense that he can physically shoot the ball. But he's not going to be this guy in most games.

[Chinook]

I have Forbes making team over LJC IMO lol

Well, that's not going to happen.

[sasaint]

Changing the subject a bit. Do you think Forbes needs to be blazing hot from the 3 nearly every game to realistically make the team? What's his margin for error? Thanks.

He can definitely score. His stroke is sweet. But I think he needs to show something on defense. As SL progresses, that is what I hope to keep my eye on.

[sasaint]

Lorbek didn't look good out there, but I admittedly saw little of him.
I missed Cady, saw him grab an OBoard, was better than his last game but I really didn't get a grasp for him either.

Did Cady even touch the ball otherwise? Bigs don't really seem to even figure into the game plans - such as they are.

[SAGirl]

Simmons is significantly better right now, and he's currently slotted to be in the rotation between Manu and Anderson. He's not expendable unless they can get someone better to be the 10th man.
I think its a bad sign that they look very similar to me. I didn't think Simmons was really going to make it as the bench creator, though I know Pop and fans wanted to see if he could make it. I have always described him as better off the ball. Dijon can do the same basically. Problem is Dijon doesn't know how to play defense or shoot, whereas Simmons has had professional coaching for 3 seasons now. It's possible within a season or two Dijon will far surpass even this version of JSimms. So yea I am higher on Dijon. For this season, I have been hoping Bertans is a legit option as a backup SF, since he played professionally and is a better shooter but they will battle it out I guess.

[Mnky]

Did you think that was a retort. I saw it this game. You're trying to pretend that that's not who he is. But we already know it is based off his time in college. This game just confirmed that he's still that guy, which is fine since he's been in the organization for all of two weeks.

That was a retort.You're criticizing people for their evaluation of him. He had a good game and got a good evaluation. You suggest his game was bad and wouldn't translate well. His rebounding and driving are the most likely to translate. He had a very efficient game, which is the opposite of what bad decision making would be, which is what you suggest based on his previous film. That's fine, but it didn't come from this game. You had a bad review to a good game, then criticizized others for a good review of a good game. That's just silly.

And no, I'm not pretending he is something he isn't. You literally quoted me saying he needs to distribute better.

[Kawhitstorm]

I think you're being generous with your description of Murray's current game. He's been a low-efficiency guy for a while now. He can get his shot off in the sense that he can physically shoot the ball. But he's not going to be this guy in most games.

Isaiah Thomas was a low efficiency chucker in Washington, Murray has the same type of game as other Seattle point guards who model their games after the god-father Jamal Crawford.:lol (Justin Dentmon is also a product of the same system but he couldn't be saved since he was already a grown ass man)

[GSH]

I think if he shoots decently, he'll make it into camp. After that, he probably just has to beat out whoever is between him and the 15th spot. I like his chances. I think what helps him is that he also scores inside the arc. So even when he's not shooting well from deep, he can find ways to help his team. I think Pop will really appreciate that.



Given the fact that Pop expects players to do more than stand and shoot, plus the way they structured his contract? Pretty good chance he gets really well acquainted with Austin. Might even be a good sign that they leave him there to get more minutes/touches because they think he is worth developing.

[GSH]

That was a retort.You're criticizing people for their evaluation of him. He had a good game and got a good evaluation. You suggest his game was bad and wouldn't translate well. His rebounding and driving are the most likely to translate. He had a very efficient game, which is the opposite of what bad decision making would be, which is what you suggest based on his previous film. That's fine, but it didn't come from this game. You had a bad review to a good game, then criticizized others for a good review of a good game. That's just silly.

And no, I'm not pretending he is something he isn't. You literally quoted me saying he needs to distribute better.


You've obviously got a bad case of the red-ass about something. Trying your damndest to prove Chinook wrong, even if you have to pick out some nitpicking thing to intentionally mis-interpret. It gets fucking old.

[coachmac87]

Well, that's not going to happen.

Slight sarcasm. Still don't think LJC is very good...

[coachmac87]

I think its a bad sign that they look very similar to me. I didn't think Simmons was really going to make it as the bench creator, though I know Pop and fans wanted to see if he could make it. I have always described him as better off the ball. Dijon can do the same basically. Problem is Dijon doesn't know how to play defense or shoot, whereas Simmons has had professional coaching for 3 seasons now. It's possible within a season or two Dijon will far surpass even this version of JSimms. So yea I am higher on Dijon. For this season, I have been hoping Bertans is a legit option as a backup SF, since he played professionally and is a better shooter but they will battle it out I guess.



I don't get why you want to give up on Simmons...when he's shown just as much flash as Anderson in SL and you can argue even during the RS last year..

He's cheap knows the system and does things the Spurs roster truly lacks.

[r0drig0lac]

Slight sarcasm. Still don't think LJC is very good...
he is not good

[Chinook]

That was a retort.You're criticizing people for their evaluation of him. He had a good game and got a good evaluation.

People were using a good statline to project him as a rotation player. What he did wouldn't fit in a team context. That doesn't mean that his statline wasn't good this game.


You suggest his game was bad and wouldn't translate well. His rebounding and driving are the most likely to translate.

He rebounds well for a guard. I think it's pointless to mention that, seeing as I've never said that nothing Murray does will translate. Driving is much dicier. He wasn't a good finisher in college, and I could see him struggling in the pros for years.


He had a very efficient game, which is the opposite of what bad decision making would be

Not at all. Ignoring open teammates and chucking up shots is poor decision-making even if you make the shots. Anyone who breaks down offense will show you plenty of clips where their judgments are completely independent of the final result of the play.


That's fine, but it didn't come from this game. You had a bad review to a good game, then criticizized others for a good review of a good game. That's just silly.

Of course it did. Any guard who doesn't pass isn't going to get a good review, especially considering that he was like the fourth option on the floor. I'm glad he went gang busters, but that wasn't winning basketball. Don't get upset because I can separate made shots from good offense.


And no, I'm not pretending he is something he isn't. You literally quoted me saying he needs to distribute better.

Like that means anything. I've never accused you of thinking he's perfect. I am however accusing you of trying to change Murray's narrative. We already know he's a chucker. I don't have to wait for him to miss a bunch of shots to know that. He made the shots today, which is cool. But until he makes those shots that often consistently, I will not give him credit for ignoring his teammates.

[Mnky]

You've obviously got a bad case of the red-ass about something. Trying your damndest to prove Chinook wrong, even if you have to pick out some nitpicking thing to intentionally mis-interpret. It gets fucking old.

Stop crushing.

[Chinook]

Isaiah Thomas was a low efficiency chucker in Washington, Murray has the same type of game as other Seattle point guards who model their games after the god-father Jamal Crawford.:lol (Justin Dentmon is also a product of the same system but he couldn't be saved since he was already a grown ass man)

I think it's either still up for debate or just stopped being up for debate whether Thomas is a winning player. I think if Murray can become a better shooter, then he can have a pretty good career as a sixth man. But he's not getting the 10th-man or especially the backup PG spot by being a offense-breaking, no-defense player, which is what he is now. Pretty much no one wanted Jamaal this off-season, and he's an actualized Murray.

[emanueldavidginobili]

People are acting like he wasn't a low-efficiency chucker in college, too. I think this whole, "It's one game" argument is ridiculous. I'm not the one projecting his future based on his performance tonight. The others are.
Russell Westbrook is a low efficiency chucker and is a top 5 player in the league. With the right coaching and schemes he can become a great player. The kid is 19 please don't forget that.

[Chinook]

The kid is 19 please don't forget that.

...Did you read my post at all?

[Kawhitstorm]

I think it's either still up for debate or just stopped being up for debate whether Thomas is a winning player. I think if Murray can become a better shooter, then he can have a pretty good career as a sixth man.

I stated when he was drafted that he was a prototypical 6th man combo guard ala Crawford which is something the team is going to need when Manu retires. Isaiah Thomas is essentially a midget version of Kyrie Iriving: http://bkref.com/tiny/KATXt (Folks were saying Kyrie wasn't a championship point guard after Gm 2 of the Finals):lol

PATFO need to go after Chris Paul next Summer & have Murray playing the Crawford role.:lol


But he's not getting the 10th-man or especially the backup PG spot by being a offense-breaking, no-defense player, which is what he is now. Pretty much no one wanted Jamaal this off-season, and he's an actualized Murray.

http://hoopshype.com/player/jamal-crawford/

[Mnky]

People were using a good statline to project him as a rotation player. What he did wouldn't fit in a team context. That doesn't mean that his statline wasn't good this game.



He rebounds well for a guard. I think it's pointless to mention that, seeing as I've never said that nothing Murray does will translate. Driving is much dicier. He wasn't a good finisher in college, and I could see him struggling in the pros for years.



Not at all. Ignoring open teammates and chucking up shots is poor decision-making even if you make the shots. Anyone who breaks down offense will show you plenty of clips where their judgments are completely independent of the final result of the play.



Of course it did. Any guard who doesn't pass isn't going to get a good review, especially considering that he was like the fourth option on the floor. I'm glad he went gang busters, but that wasn't winning basketball. Don't get upset because I can separate made shots from good offense.



Like that means anything. I've never accused you of thinking he's perfect. I am however accusing you of trying to change Murray's narrative. We already know he's a chucker. I don't have to wait for him to miss a bunch of shots to know that. He made the shots today, which is cool. But until he makes those shots that often consistently, I will not give him credit for ignoring his teammates.

What he did would have fit well in the okc series when no one could create for anything outside of lma and Kawhi. He was criticized for his finishing in college. Even NBA players struggle to finish against elite rim protectors, that's something everyone has to adjust to. He seemed to do well tonight. He took a couple bad shots, I agree. One that stood out was when he was staying two defenders and threw up a Chuck with his man on him. Looked exactly like Crawford. That being said, one or two isn't bad. Most stars do the same.

Most coaches Will tell you that part of being a great floor general is taking what the defense gives you. He took his opportunities and converted points with high efficiency. Whether those points are his or his teammates, matters in the efficiency it's done, which he did well. If he takes those same shots and misses the majority, then we have an issue. That wasn't the case though.

Once more no reiterate, his game didn't show him to be a chucker. He took more efficient shots than hail marys. Most of them were layups.

Not sure where the upset narrative comes from. Just talking basketball. Think you boys are too used to taking a message board too serious. It's just a bunch of fans talking. Lighten up.

[tholdren]

I think it's either still up for debate or just stopped being up for debate whether Thomas is a winning player. I think if Murray can become a better shooter, then he can have a pretty good career as a sixth man. But he's not getting the 10th-man or especially the backup PG spot by being a offense-breaking, no-defense player, which is what he is now. Pretty much no one wanted Jamaal this off-season, and he's an actualized Murray.
no one should have ever wanted crawford. which is why it is laughable to hear people try to argue that the nba has the best basketball talent. NBA has athleticism with extremely low bbiq. unfortunately it is what the "fans" want.

[tholdren]

I stated when he was drafted that he was a prototypical 6th man combo guard ala Crawford which is something the team is going to need when Manu retires. Isaiah Thomas is essentially a midget version of Kyrie Iriving: http://bkref.com/tiny/KATXt (Folks were saying Kyrie wasn't a championship point guard after Gm 2 of the Finals):lol

PATFO need to go after Chris Paul next Summer & have Murray playing the Crawford role.:lol



http://hoopshype.com/player/jamal-crawford/

The luckiest thing that happened to Kyrie and LeBum was his shitty game winning 3 in 7. Kyrie is a dumb player.

[Chinook]

I stated when he was drafted that he was a prototypical 6th man combo guard ala Crawford which is something the team is going to need when Manu retires. Isaiah Thomas is essentially a midget version of Kyrie Iriving: http://bkref.com/tiny/KATXt (Folks were saying Kyrie wasn't a championship point guard after Gm 2 of the Finals):lol

PATFO need to go after Chris Paul next Summer & have Murray playing the Crawford role.:lol

That would be interesting. The team looks to have like $28 Million in cap space. If he's willing to take that, I think it would be ideal


http://hoopshype.com/player/jamal-crawford/

I meant people on here.

[Mnky]

I stated when he was drafted that he was a prototypical 6th man combo guard ala Crawford which is something the team is going to need when Manu retires. Isaiah Thomas is essentially a midget version of Kyrie Iriving: http://bkref.com/tiny/KATXt (Folks were saying Kyrie wasn't a championship point guard after Gm 2 of the Finals):lol

PATFO need to go after Chris Paul next Summer & have Murray playing the Crawford role.:lol



http://hoopshype.com/player/jamal-crawford/

That would be ideal.

[siraulo23]

9kTmiYmViS4

[palangi]

As good as chinook is at the cap and analytics, he is as equally bad as a talent evaluator.

[ceperez]

9kTmiYmViS4

Yeah... decent player... kind of like Cojo... good Austin bound player.

[palangi]

I stated when he was drafted that he was a prototypical 6th man combo guard ala Crawford which is something the team is going to need when Manu retires. Isaiah Thomas is essentially a midget version of Kyrie Iriving: http://bkref.com/tiny/KATXt (Folks were saying Kyrie wasn't a championship point guard after Gm 2 of the Finals):lol

PATFO need to go after Chris Paul next Summer & have Murray playing the Crawford role.:lol



http://hoopshype.com/player/jamal-crawford/
Why do we want to move Murray to a 6th man SG? Let him develop as the PG of the future. I guess being 6'5" it is easy to want to move him.

[ceperez]

Why do we want to move Murray to a 6th man SG? Let him develop as the PG of the future. I guess being 6'5" it is easy to want to move him.

Going to take a while before Murray can quarterback an NBA team. Not likely, at best he develops a 3 point shot and becomes a 3-and-d player. He's got long strides and length, but plays below the rim.

[palangi]

Going to take a while before Murray can quarterback an NBA team. Not likely, at best he develops a 3 point shot and becomes a 3-and-d player. He's got long strides and length, but plays below the rim.
Plays below the rim? He's a PG, right? We are talking PG and not C?

He he did seem to get up and slam that alley oop pretty easily.

Of of course he can't QB an NBA team. He's fucking 19 and only played 1 season of college ball. Shit let him develop a little bit.

[emanueldavidginobili]

What are you guys thoughts on Kyle? 23 points 7 assist 10 rebounds 3 steals, he is just so awkward but it works some of his shots that go in or how he gets to the rim are just mind boggling, but hey it works.

[palangi]

Let's make our first round PG a 3&D player because he can't QB an NBA team after 1 summer league game. Ha ha:lol

the thought process of this place is so asinine sometimes.

[bic50]

Seems to love attacking the rim.

[SAGirl]

What are you guys thoughts on Kyle? 23 points 7 assist 10 rebounds 3 steals, he is just so awkward but it works some of his shots that go in or how he gets to the rim are just mind boggling, but hey it works.
He always fills up the stat sheet and was putting similar games together towards the end of the regular season when he played enough minutes. Although obviously very low usage. His weakness has been playing off the ball bc he's not an ideal spot up shooter and that is what Pop reduced him to playing when it mattered. But he was always able to find himself playing time bc he contributes in many other areas beside scoring that ppl around here ignore. If he played enough minutes and had more opportunities to score he would produce a lot more. I am crossing fingers that he's found his 3 pt shot and that is here to stay. Didn't shoot it that well from 3 in this game, but he's been hitting the 3 very well. He's also not going to ever be an athletic guy but he knows how to play the team game.

[AFBlue]

Just finished watching. I don't know what Anderson has left to prove. He's a man among boys out there...toying with them. Simmons can't get out if his own way with that loose dribble, but I love his attack and moxie. Is it just me or did he completely ignore Murray on offense the entire game? Now that kid...smooth, athletic finisher. If only his jump shot were legit, like Forbes. Ok, so Forbes proved he's human, but I still like the variety of shots he took even if he struggled. Arci still seems to be the best game manager outside of Kyle, think he's going to be good in Austin and a potential call up at some point.

Ok...ramblings complete.

[Spur-Addict]

Of course they just want to see where he is. And I think he flashed his talent. But he also showed his lack of intangibles. As I said, he's the Bizarro Arcidiacono. Ryan has it all ready to go upstairs, but he's just not built for the NBA. He makes everyone around him better, but he himself is not good enough. Murray has everything he needs below the neck to be a 10-year starter. But upstairs is all AU for him right now. Neither of them are rotation players at this point, but obviously Murray is a lot closer. We'll see how he adapts once Becky is his primary coach. She did a good job at making Simmons more focused during the SL last year.

Yeah, this is all true. It can take time to break these sorts of habits, especially at that age. And being in this system is challenging for most vets in year one let alone for a 19 year old rookie. I do think a lot of this is "eager to please/show out/prove other teams wrong that passed" etc etc etc. But it's also a massive reflection of his playing style. It's nice that there's a day of rest here to see what they'll look to instill into him mentally. There's a long road here regardless in regards to fitting into this playing style. But if he just comes out chucking and they don't say anything, then I'll have to assume this is instruction. With Pop it's well known that, a hard head makes a soft ass. So I think we'll see a gradual transition in Vegas. Yes, he'll revert to what has worked for him when he struggles and there will be bumps, but at the same time he has an ability that we are lacking that comes rather naturally, the ability to penetrate and create space without a pick.

So, depending upon how cohesive he is towards the end of summer, and camp, I think there's an outside chance he sees the floor in short bursts.

[TheGoldStandard]

Murray is exactly the PG that the Spurs wanted regardless of what he showed at Washington or his reputation is. If they wanted a different kind of PG they would have taken on another project piece and maybe Arci is that guy.

Murray checks off so many boxes that the Spurs need. Can he move without the basketball, Yes.. which is good because the Spurs are trying to get Kawhi to be more of the focal point of the offense anyway. So his ability to slash will be great when Kawhi is handling the ball.. If he can finish consistently around the rim that means he'll draw defenders which means he can pass the ball to open shooters.

Can he shoot the ball? Not really.. his mechanics look really bad and he's inconsistent with muscle memory when he makes 1 or 2 but that can be corrected.. Shooting is one of the easiest things to fix unless you have absolutely no touch whatsoever.. It's going to take hours and hours of gym time where all he does is sit there and get harped about proper mechanics and film study. The only way he fails as a shooter is if he is lazy and decides to just live by his athleticism which I don't think he will.

Can he dribble the ball? Yup.. He's quite capable of beating his man off dribble with his first step and he has some moves to get them off balance. Does this help? Yup.. because it means it shifts the defenses focus.. As good as Parker is at running what the Spurs run he doesn't have speed anymore and he doesn't have handles to break down guys who D him up.. Most of them just go under screens anyway letting him take an 18 footer and they'll live with that. Murray as he develops will be able to press the issue by engaging these sagging off players and making them bite at penetration.

Does he need to be a pass first kind of PG who lives off PnR? Nope.. the league is changing and the Spurs are getting with the times. I think the Spurs can bring him along slowly.. RC said he wasn't going to set the world on fire but I believe within the next 2 seasons he'll have a starting job at the PG.. I think the Spurs can do a lot of unique things with his skill set running the point and by then his shot should be more consistent.

[SAGirl]

Trade Mills, give the backup to Murray, use the money to unstretch Tim's contract. Force TD back by blackmail, extortion, promises of paint ball tournaments, whatever...
I had to laugh at the TD comment my friend.

[raybies]

As good as chinook is at the cap and analytics, he is as equally bad as a talent evaluator.

He has his love affairs with some players that are decent but no one is perfect with talent evaluations. Although i think in this case Murray has got AllStar potential as a Starting point guard rather than sixth man which is a possibility at this point. Just depends what we need and how we are forced to use him. Parker was similar to him. Shoot first point guard that could get to the rim and was lightning quick. He couldn't shoot and he didn't have the vision and still doesn't. Pop use to tell Parker to refer to Stockton and be somewhere in the middle. Remember? It was on the 2003 championship dvd I believe. Now a days Pop might feed him video of Chris Paul as someone to look up to. It's perfectly fair to let him play today and see what you got. Then you know where to start. Too bad Forcier left cause we could use his development skills with this kid. I think it starts with his shot and techniques on the defensive end. He's got a lot going for him.

[raybies]

What are you guys thoughts on Kyle? 23 points 7 assist 10 rebounds 3 steals, he is just so awkward but it works some of his shots that go in or how he gets to the rim are just mind boggling, but hey it works.

IMO He's definitely suited to play the four. If he can get a reliable three then he can be a Bobo type player. I just want to see him back his guy down closer to the rim instead of taking fadaways. But he's got point forward capabilities which is very valuable in today's NBA. I'm sure a lot of teams are wishing they didn't pass on him.

[cd98]

Hope they can develop this kid quickly and get him to play tough defense. With a 6'5 pg, Danny at the 2, and Kawhi, it would remind me of that dominant Bulls press of Harper, Jordan, and Pippen that used to swallow point guards whole.

[BillMc]

I had to laugh at the TD comment my friend.
:flag:

[raybies]

Hope they can develop this kid quickly and get him to play tough defense. With a 6'5 pg, Danny at the 2, and Kawhi, it would remind me of that dominant Bulls press of Harper, Jordan, and Pippen that used to swallow point guards whole.

So vital that he becomes a good defender. He has the tools. He just relies on his physical tools too much. Needs to play defense smarter, more solid. He needs to learn better positioning.

[TheGoldStandard]

So vital that he becomes a good defender. He has the tools. He just relies on his physical tools too much. Needs to play defense smarter, more solid. He needs to learn better positioning.

I think he will get really solid at defense once he's given a crash course in it.. I don't think he's been asked to play stellar defense so he just uses what his genetic gifts are. The positive is that he seems to want to work.

[SAGirl]

Well consensus on Simmons/Murray is that they are very similar in skillset but Simmons is more experienced in the system and will get the playing time. Independently of Murray, he was already on his own schedule to improve or find himself as a marginal roleplayer anyways. Murray has nothing to do with that.

Murray is 19, will go to Austin, get a lot of playing time, work on his shot and his defense. Next Summer League he has to pull an Anderson his second season and showed he's improved in all deficient areas. Very young kid, with definite swiftness and talent. Maybe Pop will play him early in the season and do his bit of yelling. Will play when Manu rests some.

Simmons is likely to be much more under control when he's not a go to guy and plays within a system.

[BackHome]

Murray is going to be a starter........for the Austin Toros........He can and will get better but he needs to spend time with Chip and also get some hard loving coaching. If he can drop the entitlement/ego thing then the sky is the limit. For me I hope they play him as a PG and have game where they say no shooting only passing and other games they say green light.

[Tully365]

KA is still only 22 years old. Look at the improvement in his Per 100 possessions stats from his rookie to his sophomore year. If he shows that same level of improvement in year 3, he's most likely a keeper.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anderky01.html

[SpursBig3s]

in for later

[Kawhitstorm]

The luckiest thing that happened to Kyrie and LeBum was his shitty game winning 3 in 7. Kyrie is a dumb player.

I guess Lillard is a GREAT player b/c he made a 3 to beat HarDone & Dwert.:lol

Kyrie was the best point guard in the ENTIRE postseason & was ridiculously efficient: http://bkref.com/tiny/rGGl4

All-NBA point guards:

WestBrick: Got BADLY outplayed by Wardell in the last 3 games of the WCF
Lillard: Choke-P3 was abusing him before he broke his wrist
Choke-P3: On the wrong side of 30
Lowry: One of the worst chokers in postseason history
Dragic: Was getting outplayed by Jeremy Lin
Wall: Rondo 2.0
Unanimous MVP: Got destroyed by Kyrie

The best PG in the NBA is LeBron, tbh.:wakeup

[GSH]

KA is still only 22 years old. Look at the improvement in his Per 100 possessions stats from his rookie to his sophomore year. If he shows that same level of improvement in year 3, he's most likely a keeper.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anderky01.html


A lot of people here (probably most, if I remember right) thought CoJo was a bust, through his second season. So, yeah, it could happen. But the fact that you're talking about it says that you recognize that he needs to improve quite a bit still.

The problem with projects is that we make them eat their spinach, they grow up big and strong... and then we can't afford to keep them. That just got 10x worse with this new cap.

[Kawhitstorm]

A lot of people here (probably most, if I remember right) thought CoJo was a bust, through his second season. So, yeah, it could happen. But the fact that you're talking about it says that you recognize that he needs to improve quite a bit still.

People forget that Draymond Green was a bum for the first 2 seasons of his career despite staying for all 4 years at Michigan: http://bkref.com/tiny/pQx93 :lol

[Tully365]

A lot of people here (probably most, if I remember right) thought CoJo was a bust, through his second season. So, yeah, it could happen. But the fact that you're talking about it says that you recognize that he needs to improve quite a bit still.



His growth has been pretty steady, and he's the Magic Johnson of this summer league:lol, so all the signs are good. My hope is he becomes a quality 7th/8th man, nothing more than that. It's hard to argue with a 100 point jump in FG%, a 50 point jump in 3ptFG%, and 7.1 rebounds, 3.6 assists, 1.7 steals per 36min...

[Kawhitstorm]

That would be interesting. The team looks to have like $28 Million in cap space. If he's willing to take that, I think it would be ideal

I really don't see what better option Chris Paul has if he doesn't want to re-sign w/ the Cripples since the Cavs/Duds have elite PGs. He once requested to be traded to the Knicks so he could play w/ his buddy Carmelo so that could be another option if Noah/Melo aren't washed up. I'm hoping that D-Rose has a contract year & force Phil Jackson to re-sign him.:lol

Logistically, Manu/Patty are most likely gone next summer thus Tony can be the 6th man which is a needed security blanket since CP3 is ALWAYS seemingly injured in the postseason.:lol (Tony/Cp3 are also buddies & Tim is a big brother figure to CP3 so they could help recruit him to the Alamo:toast)

[SpurPadre]

KA is still only 22 years old. Look at the improvement in his Per 100 possessions stats from his rookie to his sophomore year. If he shows that same level of improvement in year 3, he's most likely a keeper.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/anderky01.html

no matter how good he gets, ka will always be a liability and unplayable against uber athletic teams, let alone the Dubs.

[RD2191]

Chinook has lost his damn mind. Judging a player after 1 summer league game. Gtfo.

[Kawhitstorm]

no matter how good he gets, ka will always be a liability and unplayable against uber athletic teams, let alone the Dubs.

He was actually one of the better players against the Duds last season.:lol

[SpurPadre]

He was actually one of the better players against the Duds last season.:lol

show me the numbers that prove that.

[Tully365]

no matter how good he gets, ka will always be a liability and unplayable against uber athletic teams, let alone the Dubs.

Even if he's playing PF? According to 82games.com. that's where he was most effective last year: http://www.82games.com/1415/14SAS8.HTM

[SpurPadre]

Even if he's playing PF? According to 82games.com. that's where he was most effective last year: http://www.82games.com/1415/14SAS8.HTM

Interesting but I just can't trust his slow ass against certain teams in meaningful minutes. It would be a disaster waiting to happen.

[Kawhitstorm]

show me the numbers that prove that.

He's most likely going to be playing the 4 this season, so let's look at how he fared when Diaw was out against the Duds:

-Led the team in rebounding while D-Worst had ZERO in 23 minutes::lol http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201604070GSW.html

-Led the bench in rebounding: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201604100SAS.html

[tonight...you]

Sort of early to judge a 19 yr old, but whatever.
You, of all people, are encouraged by performance on the court, yes?.
Be encouraged, brother. No need to anoint, but go ahead and like what you saw.

[tonight...you]

A lot of people here (probably most, if I remember right) thought CoJo was a bust, through his second season. So, yeah, it could happen. But the fact that you're talking about it says that you recognize that he needs to improve quite a bit still.

The problem with projects is that we make them eat their spinach, they grow up big and strong... and then we can't afford to keep them. That just got 10x worse with this new cap.
Salient words.

[SpurPadre]

He's most likely going to be playing the 4 this season, so let's look at how he fared when Diaw was out against the Duds:

-Led the team in rebounding while D-Worst had ZERO in 23 minutes::lol http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201604070GSW.html

-Led the bench in rebounding: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201604100SAS.html

That still doesn't show the whole story, especially on the defensive side and now we have to look at what he would do should he have to guard KD and Draymond in limited minutes...talk about cringeworthy. The guy has value but he should never play meaningful minutes against these type of teams.

[Hoops Czar]

show me the numbers that prove that.

Kiwiwindbag smoking crack again. In the first game he linked, D-west outscored KA and had 11-8 and had 7 assists compared to KA's 3. In the second he referenced, West had 10 rebounds as a starter and while KA did lead the bench in rebounding, his competition was Paddy Mills, Manu Ginobili, Kevin Martin and Boban for 6 minutes. :lol

[raybies]

751272273223356418

[SAGirl]

People forget that Draymond Green was a bum for the first 2 seasons of his career despite staying for all 4 years at Michigan: http://bkref.com/tiny/pQx93 :lol
I have been tempted to bring up even Draymond's 3 pt shooting.
If Kyle's shooting hold this season, specially since he's not parked in a corner, but hitting the 3 from the wings and the top, could be MIP considering increased role, the team's need for his skillset, and improvement in his shooting.
I hype him up all the time, but independently of my fandom..
If kyle grows up as a player its for the best of the team.

[Kawhitstorm]

That still doesn't show the whole story, especially on the defensive side and now we have to look at what he would do should he have to guard KD and Draymond in limited minutes...talk about cringeworthy. The guy has value but he should never play meaningful minutes against these type of teams.

Why does he have to guard KD/Draymond when D-Worst is the backup 4?:downspin:(Most likely will guard Iggy if it's the Death lineup)

Imagine D-Worst trying to guard Kyle.:lol

[SpurPadre]

Why does he have to guard KD/Draymond when Iggy/Livingston are the backups?:downspin:(Most likely will guard Iggy if it's the Death lineup)

if you guys expect ka to take the next step and with bobo gone, he may very well be considered to guard those guys in spots (hope not). And he can't guard an explosive and smaller Iggy.

[SpurPadre]

Kiwiwindbag smoking crack again. In the first game he linked, D-west outscored KA and had 11-8 and had 7 assists compared to KA's 3. In the second he referenced, West had 10 rebounds as a starter and while KA did lead the bench in rebounding, his competition was Paddy Mills, Manu Ginobili, Kevin Martin and Boban for 6 minutes. :lol

And the biggest factor is that the other guys went up against the Dubs A players while KA was tasked with easier assignments.

[Kawhitstorm]

if you guys expect ka to take the next step and with bobo gone, he may very well be considered to guard those guys in spots (hope not). And he can't guard an explosive and smaller Iggy.

We're talking about the same Iggy that was being guarded by Kevin Love?:lmao

Besides, I'm not sure what so difficult about guarding Draymond 1-on-1 when he has no moves besides chucking up 3s or flopping trying to get calls on postups.:lol

[T Park]

if you guys expect ka to take the next step and with bobo gone, he may very well be considered to guard those guys in spots (hope not). And he can't guard an explosive and smaller Iggy.



Iggy? Explosive? Maybe in his Philadelphia days....

[szkorhetz]

He always fills up the stat sheet and was putting similar games together towards the end of the regular season when he played enough minutes. Although obviously very low usage. His weakness has been playing off the ball bc he's not an ideal spot up shooter and that is what Pop reduced him to playing when it mattered. But he was always able to find himself playing time bc he contributes in many other areas beside scoring that ppl around here ignore. If he played enough minutes and had more opportunities to score he would produce a lot more. I am crossing fingers that he's found his 3 pt shot and that is here to stay. Didn't shoot it that well from 3 in this game, but he's been hitting the 3 very well. He's also not going to ever be an athletic guy but he knows how to play the team game.
Agreed.
Second team should be built up, to make Anderson the primary ballhandler and make life easier to Manu, essentially making him a 3 point shooter, just like Mills.

[dabom]

Fathead ball handling sucks in the NBA. Dude holds onto the ball too long and then has to shoot it.

[Nathan89]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu4WAAwiJFo

Seems most his offense was either early transition type scores or scoring off-ball in half-court situations.

[Nathan89]

We're talking about the same Iggy that was being guarded by Kevin Love?:lmao

Besides, I'm not sure what so difficult about guarding Draymond 1-on-1 when he has no moves besides chucking up 3s or flopping trying to get calls on postups.:lol

Yeah, Iggy gets guarded by big guys all of the time. He and Barnes basically get that type of treatment from other teams.

Richard Jefferson and Waiters were guarding Draymond just fine so KA shouldn't have much issues.

[Nathan89]

People forget that Draymond Green was a bum for the first 2 seasons of his career despite staying for all 4 years at Michigan: http://bkref.com/tiny/pQx93 :lol

Kyle needs some of those great off-ball players in the lineup like Draymond has.

[Kawhitstorm]

Kyle needs some of those great off-ball players in the lineup like Draymond has.

Forbes is one guy that can definitely play w/ Kyle, same should be true for Bertans. Kyle played well w/ Zach LaVine in college so Murray should fit in once he fixes his shot.

Upcoming season:

DD
Kyle
Simmons
Manu
Patty

Future:

DD
Kyle
Bertans
Forbes
Murray

[Kawhitstorm]

Seems most his offense was either early transition type scores or scoring off-ball in half-court situations.

Murray should be useful as a change of pace guy considering the starters are going to be running a LOT of postups or Porker PnRs.

[SnakeBoy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmNvnbcIsPI&feature=youtu.be

Kid said all the right things except that he will personally tell Pop to yell at him

:pop: Don't tell me what to do rookie, now go sit your ass on the bench for a year.

[Kawhitstorm]

Agreed.
Second team should be built up, to make Anderson the primary ballhandler and make life easier to Manu, essentially making him a 3 point shooter, just like Mills.

The question is will Turnobili oblige to being demoted to a spot-up shooter?:wakeup

[Obstructed_View]

He got one turnover tonight. Maybe that's what they wanted him to work on the most? Not worry about shooting percentages or whatever? When will people realize the SL is an incubator and learning environment?

But if you watched the game, you know that Simmons didn't change the way he charges into the lane with his head down any more than he did in the previous game. He dribbled the ball off his foot, got too deep, put up bad shots that didn't go in, and wasn't really any better on defense. He certainly didn't look like someone playing under control trying to take care of the ball.


I just watched Fathead and Simmons hero ball every time they touched the rock tonight but Dejounte looked anti-Spur?

Kid is 19yo, just signed his contract today, and balls out in his NBA debut and you expect more? He'll have plenty of time to learn the system when he's in Austin this upcoming season. Summer league isn't really the best place to judge bball IQ but he definitely passed the athleticism test from what I saw.

And tbh if the "Spur" definition of PG play is to be foreign and unathletic, I'd want Murray to be as anti-Spur as possible....

So much this. Anderson and Simmons score so many points on bad decisions in the paint that they can get away with because they're better athletes than everyone else. Murray comes in and gets layups and dunks in rhythm and people have a problem with that?

[ceperez]

Murray is going to be a starter........for the Austin Toros........He can and will get better but he needs to spend time with Chip and also get some hard loving coaching. If he can drop the entitlement/ego thing then the sky is the limit. For me I hope they play him as a PG and have game where they say no shooting only passing and other games they say green light.

Exactly... needs many things (1) a consistent shot (2) lock down defense and (3) build muscle. I guess same thing that Anderson had to do.

The difference between Anderson and Murray is that Anderson knows his limitations, Murray probably thinks he's super talented... which he is not.

[raybies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu4WAAwiJFo

Seems most his offense was either early transition type scores or scoring off-ball in half-court situations.

Which would fit in well with KL and LMA. He'd have his opportunities and they didn't work we could run post. Also they were running him mostly as the point, so it looks like patfo wants to try him there first.

[picnroll]

Murray is going to yo yo between Austin and SA this year and when he's called up he'll get end of blow out scrub minutes.

Question: any body here think this kid and his agent will ever take a dime off his contract to allow the Spurs to make deals and get better?

[Chinook]

Murray is going to yo yo between Austin and SA this year and when he's called up he'll get end of blow out scrub minutes.

Question: any body here think this kid and his agent will ever take a dime off his contract to allow the Spurs to make deals and get better?

Dunno. That's not something that could be an issue for years, though. Kawhi didn't take a cent less off his second contract, and no other rookie should be expected to. So we're talking about 2025 before the team might be in position to ask him. That's too long to know how he'll develop and fit into team culture.

[raybies]

Murray is going to yo yo between Austin and SA this year and when he's called up he'll get end of blow out scrub minutes.

Question: any body here think this kid and his agent will ever take a dime off his contract to allow the Spurs to make deals and get better?

Not with rich Paul as his agent. If he turns out and reaches his potential he's not gonna turn down the max on his first payday. That's if he's any of the following: elite role player, sixth man, starter, or all-star. Look at Harrison Barnes.

[cd98]

Couple quick takes:

1) Just bc Anderson is slow, doesn't mean he can't be a legit NBA player. Look at Chris Mullin, an all-time great. He was slower than Anderson and averaged 25 points a game. Anderson already is a good passer and ball handler. If he can improve his shot and post up, he can be effective. And his length can help him be an adequate defender.

2) Murray is 6'5. Im not advocating he be a ball hog, but he's SG size. He should shoot. Yes, he'll play PG but a 6'5 PG should be posting, scoring, and driving on smaller guards.

3) The pass first point guard hasn't existed in this league for the last 8 years. Those guys are all scorers.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kTmiYmViS4

[cutewizard]

From commentator:

Murray, quick as a whip!

[ceperez]

Not with rich Paul as his agent. If he turns out and reaches his potential he's not gonna turn down the max on his first payday. That's if he's any of the following: elite role player, sixth man, starter, or all-star. Look at Harrison Barnes.

If I were the Spurs, I would trade his at any opportunity that there's a sign of value.

[palangi]

Exactly... needs many things (1) a consistent shot (2) lock down defense and (3) build muscle. I guess same thing that Anderson had to do.

The difference between Anderson and Murray is that Anderson knows his limitations, Murray probably thinks he's super talented... which he is not.
Go get him! Kill the kid with your awesome basketball takes!

[tav1]

Is the Vegas roster the same as Utah? I've not seen a second release.

[palangi]

From commentator:

Murray, quick as a whip!
nope! The spustalk genius has told us he is not very athletic. Kid is garbage and now apparently should be traded?

[Keepin' it real]

Wow, Lorbek is a total scrub. :lol Can't believe the people here who've been hyping him. No thank you.

Oh no, I hope this doesn't mean we'll be equally disappointed with Bertans. Please say it ain't so.

[HankChinaski]

Wow, Lorbek is a total scrub. :lol Can't believe the people here who've been hyping him. No thank you.

Oh no, I hope this doesn't mean we'll be equally disappointed with Bertans. Please say it ain't so.

Lorbek hasn't played any competitive basketball overseas with any clubs for two seasons now from what I remember. Yeah he looks washed up.

Bertans is completely different story.

[look_at_g_shred]

Is bertans going to play in vegas?

[SpursFan86]

Vegas roster is out:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm2sivSVYAI6aNO.jpg


Bertans, LJC, and Ndoye all on there :tu

[SAGirl]

Murray is going to yo yo between Austin and SA this year and when he's called up he'll get end of blow out scrub minutes.

Question: any body here think this kid and his agent will ever take a dime off his contract to allow the Spurs to make deals and get better?
No. I expect him to get his 120% fully. doubt they will pennypinch his agent for peanuts and start the employment relationship with a negative connotation. Rich Paul is known to play hard ball and have his players hold off for months if need be until they get what he thinks they deserve. It would create unnecessary publicity for a tiny amount.

Paying the guy the 120% is a way to build up good will with a player who could develop into "the future" of the team and someone the team would like to retain if they turn into the player they project him to be in the best of cases. In that case, it's not worth it to start the employment relationship in their left foot by pennypinching for what is in fact, peanuts in this market.

[Spurs9]

Man, I'm pretty excited about Murray.

[SPURt]

Vegas roster is out:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm2sivSVYAI6aNO.jpg


Bertans, LJC, and Ndoye all on there :tu
18 players, kind of a large group. Bertans taking 45, lol, Blair

[Obstructed_View]

Is bertans going to play in vegas?

He's not on the current roster at all.

EDIT: Fuck. I've been looking for exactly that roster for the last five minutes.

So I guess Hanlan isn't going to even get a shot. Damn.

[SpursFan86]

Looking at that Vegas roster, and damn, we should roll through competition :lol There's a chance 3 or maybe even 4 those guys are expected to have somewhat of a spot in the rotation this upcoming season. Throw in the D-League MVP Jarnell Stokes and this is looking like a stacked SL roster.

[look_at_g_shred]

Vegas roster is out:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm2sivSVYAI6aNO.jpg


Bertans, LJC, and Ndoye all on there :tu
Dope! Thanks for sharing

[Chinook]

Starting lineups for Vegas? If this is going to be Simmons and Anderson playing again, I'm going with Murray, Forbes, Bertans, Anderson and Lalanne. Main bench would be Arcidiacono, Cummings, Simmons, Stokes and Ndoye

[jyra]

Disappointing that Milutinov didn't make it. There was a rumor a couple of days ago that Crvena Zvezda (Serbian team) is interested in him, maybe that's why he is missing from the roster.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm really hoping they send Anderson home. He's proven that his spot is secure. Everyone else needs PT.

[Chinook]

I hear GMs around the league are upset with Stokes agreeing to join an already stacked squad.

[djohn14]

That team is stacked. Do you think Stokes/LJC are battling for a spot or do you think we would take both.

[SAGirl]

Vegas roster is out:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm2sivSVYAI6aNO.jpg


Bertans, LJC, and Ndoye all on there :tu

Woot, woot! and my favorite Becky Jamon!!!!!!!!!!! :lol No Milutinov though... hhhmmm all the reports about him playing in SL were premature... maybe he did decline to go to Rio on account of Zika? It's weird.
Thanks for sharing!

[palangi]

18 players, kind of a large group. Bertans taking 45, lol, Blair
I dout Anderson stays more than one game. Lorikeets will be hurt the whole time. So there is 2 down

[SAGirl]

I hear GMs around the league are upset with Stokes agreeing to join an already stacked squad.
REally? hmm ppl upset about summer league?
The Spurs legit have a possible roster spot open for a 5th big. It's a legit opportunity for Stokes.
Also, great team to showcase himself even if he doesn't end up with the Spurs, they have a chance to win many games like last season, and many of the "roleplayers" from last season's team ended up with NBA invites for training camps... definite great showcase.

[SpursFan86]

REally? hmm ppl upset about summer league?
The Spurs legit have a possible roster spot open for a 5th big. It's a legit opportunity for Stokes.
Also, great team to showcase himself even if he doesn't end up with the Spurs, they have a chance to win many games like last season, and many of the "roleplayers" from last season's team ended up with NBA invites for training camps... definite great showcase.

I could be wrong, but I think he was being sarcastic because of all the KD to GS stuff going on.

[Chinook]

That team is stacked. Do you think Stokes/LJC are battling for a spot or do you think we would take both.

I think LJC has a spot, and Stokes may be fighting with Ndoye and Cady for one, though.

[Chinook]

REally? hmm ppl upset about summer league?
The Spurs legit have a possible roster spot open for a 5th big. It's a legit opportunity for Stokes.
Also, great team to showcase himself even if he doesn't end up with the Spurs, they have a chance to win many games like last season, and many of the "roleplayers" from last season's team ended up with NBA invites for training camps... definite great showcase.

I was making a joke based on the Zaza business. I do think some might be annoyed about Anderson being there for a third time, especially considering that he was MVP last year.

[djohn14]

I think LJC has a spot, and Stokes may be fighting with Ndoye and Cady for one, though.

Thabks. I'm hopeful LJC can still develope into an Al-Farouq Aminu type guy for us. He's got a ways to go but he has tools.

[HankChinaski]

I like watching Stokes has some decent foot work and moves quickly for his tweener forward body. Curious to see how he matches up against small forwards defensively would create a lot of versatility off the bench with his interior offense

[SAGirl]

Disappointing that Milutinov didn't make it. There was a rumor a couple of days ago that Crvena Zvezda (Serbian team) is interested in him, maybe that's why he is missing from the roster.
Thanks for sharing this ^
I was wondering about Milutinov myself. I was really excited to see him.

[SAGirl]

I was making a joke based on the Zaza business. I do think some might be annoyed about Anderson being there for a third time, especially considering that he was MVP last year.
:lol You have to use blue font with me... I can't discern all jokes lol I am sometimes too naive lol
I am laughing at myself right now
:lmao

[$pursDynasty]

Looking at that Vegas roster, and damn, we should roll through competition :lol There's a chance 3 or maybe even 4 those guys are expected to have somewhat of a spot in the rotation this upcoming season. Throw in the D-League MVP Jarnell Stokes and this is looking like a stacked SL roster.
don't know which ST poster used to always say it but when it comes to the SL, We Stackkkkkked

[HankChinaski]

Forbes hasn't looked particular good defensively but if brought in it would be for his shooting. Haven't seen him bring the ball up the court at all over the last three games. Undersized SG that they may be able to get away playing the point position along Anderson and Manu

[Spurs9]

Looking forward to watching Bertans, haven't seen him really play much before.

[Rito3d30]

I thought Bertans was not going to play due to need of resting

[TheGreatYacht]

If the Spurs wanna go back to back, this has to be the starting lineup:
Lalanne, Stokes, Bertans, Simmons, Murray

Bench:
Ndoye, Jean-Charles, Washburn, Forbes, Arcidiacono

[loveforthegame]

Murray, Bertans, LJC, Ndoye, and Stokes I'm most interested in. :tu

[SAGirl]

Starting lineups for Vegas? If this is going to be Simmons and Anderson playing again, I'm going with Murray, Forbes, Bertans, Anderson and Lalanne. Main bench would be Arcidiacono, Cummings, Simmons, Stokes and Ndoye
Good guess.
I think at some point they will want to see Murray at the 2 as well, maybe in a young Manu, "go get yours in the bench" role.
I am also guessing they will want to see Bertans at both forward spots.

About Anderson, maybe they just reduce his minutes to see others. My suspicion though, is that Pop has been sitting at home yelling at the TV over every single mistake, :lol and he's really unsettled that he's going to have to coach for real :lol

Outside of the joke though, next season he will be counted upon, these are not garbage time minutes he will be playing, and he's stepping in for a Pop favorite, wine tasting very versatile player. When Manu rests, it's an entirely new bench out there save Mills. There is probably a bit of nerve wreck from Pop.

[Spurs9]

Murray looked really impressive in stretches of the game yesterday with his driving and aggression. Can't wait to see how he looks in the next few games. I have a feeling he was a steal in the draft.

[raybies]

I must admit, I'm a little disappointed Milutinov is not playing. Maybe he didn't want to play unless he signed a contract also and with so much uncertainty with Duncan's decision his coming over was in doubt since Livio was next in line. He's put in more years already and its his time for a shot. Maybe they though Milutinov could use a little more seasoning. But another reason I've been thinking is that they want to stagger the contracts of the rookies so they don't all expire at once and are forced to let go of some with the contracts if they turn out to be players.The latter seems more likely. Gosh i wonder who they are liking at for third center cause all we have is the vet minimum and can't afford to trade say a Patty. Maybe Simmons but he's a cheap player that knows the system. Could possibly be Livio who gets traded if he doesn't perform well, un likely but we'll see.

[SAGirl]

I must admit, I'm a little disappointed Milutinov is not playing. Maybe he didn't want to play unless he signed a contract also and with so much uncertainty with Duncan's decision his coming over was in doubt since Livio was next in line. He's put in more years already and its his time for a shot. Maybe they though Milutinov could use a little more seasoning. But another reason I've been thinking is that they want to stagger the contracts of the rookies so they don't all expire at once and are forced to let go of some with the contracts if they turn out to be players.The latter seems more likely. Gosh i wonder who they are liking at for third center cause all we have is the vet minimum and can't afford to trade say a Patty. Maybe Simmons but he's a cheap player that knows the system. Could possibly be Livio who gets traded if he doesn't perform well, unlikely but we'll see.

Very good point that I had not ever considered is the contractual aspect of this. :tu

[-21-]

Roster for Vegas:

http://d2s3dt9f4iyeup.cloudfront.net/images/standard_v1/48705e43-c6ce-4c70-8d8b-0ab606c6bd9e.png

[Solid D]

All I can say is that on this team, Lorbek is going to look like an old man wearing borrowed shoes.

[Chinook]

I still can't believe that no one's commented on Hanlan's absence yet.

[SAGirl]

I still can't believe that no one's commented on Hanlan's absence yet.
Too much excitement over Murray's debut is my guess.
Plus for me Milutinov's absence. I was more hyped up to see him than any other of the latest additions personally.
I don't know zilch about Hanlan.

[Solid D]

I still can't believe that no one's commented on Hanlan's absence yet.

It may have been "suggested" by the Spurs to play overseas again this season. Although he was with Zalgiris in the Top 16, he only averaged 7 points and 1.5 assists with 32.4% 2P% in Euroleague play. He may need another year of seasoning.

[tholdren]

Roster for Vegas:

http://d2s3dt9f4iyeup.cloudfront.net/images/standard_v1/48705e43-c6ce-4c70-8d8b-0ab606c6bd9e.png
These times are pacific.

[objective]

Very annoyed with the Milutinov absence. And his bigger picture.

Basically, he's going to have tremendous incentive to not come over for 17-18 because of the 3-year rule for rookie contracts.

So the benefit of a cheap contract on a rookie deal with all those years of control is mostly nullified. And if they want him for 18-19, they'll be in a bind because they also have to carve out enough cap room to match a deal for Bertans or see him leave like Boban. Which restricts the money they'll have to replace Pau, Green, and possibly Parker if Murray doesn't work out.

It's going to be a shame if they don't sign him this summer.

--

Happy to watch Bertans, don't know if he'll play that much with his knees and resting them.

-:

Don't care about Hanlon. He was more valuable as a token part of a trade than as a player.

--

Don't need more Anderson. Not really interested in too much more Simmons either to be honest.

-:

Don't care about Stokes, don't think he could help the Spurs

[r0drig0lac]

Vegas roster is out:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm2sivSVYAI6aNO.jpg


Bertans, LJC, and Ndoye all on there :tu

nice

[raybies]

Very good point that I had not ever considered is the contractual aspect of this. :tu

Yeah right now it's Murray and Livio, and if Milutinov comes too that's potentially allot of money to hand out that summers and we risk losing one especially if the projection are that Murray will come any where near the max which is a possibility. I mean pop already told Murray he wants him to be the next Leonard. If he turns out to be a star it would be unbelievable. Drafting all-star outside the lottery and when we need them. It's like patfo knows when to shot for a star and when to shot for a role player. I think that's a big part of the success they've had in drafting.

[Emperor]

Hell yeah will be in attendance tomorrow night!

[Drom John]

I still can't believe that no one's commented on Hanlan's absence yet.

The Hanlan trade didn't become official till about an hour ago.
These rosters are "subject to change."

[SAGirl]

Yeah right now it's Murray and Livio, and if Milutinov comes too that's potentially allot of money to hand out that summers and we risk losing one especially if the projection are that Murray will come any where near the max which is a possibility. I mean pop already told Murray he wants him to be the next Leonard. If he turns out to be a star it would be unbelievable. Drafting all-star outside the lottery and when we need them. It's like patfo knows when to shot for a star and when to shot for a role player. I think that's a big part of the success they've had in drafting.
A good point on Murray is that he didn't seem a Spursy type pick. Even though he was a favorite of mine, it was precisely based on physical attributes and his youth, the potential capacity to improve with his physical attributes. When I dug more on him, he didn't seem Spursy, and well you can already perceive the mixed reactions here. But PATFO was looking for some upside and he has it, and they have to feed his ambition and desire to improve, bc if he just stays complacent as he is, then he won't reach the ceiling the perceive for him. He was comparing himself not only to Leonard, but to Tony, in terms of guys that Pop coached from a very young age, such as himself, and who reached a higher ceiling than they were projected at... Tony resonated with him bc he was a late first round pick.

Can't say I like that part of his personality, proclaiming his ambitions like that and comparing himself to them, it seemed pretentious to me. OTOH someone may like that he's so open about his own ambitions, we are used to not having that young of players in the Spurs to begin with and the ones we have had like CoJo, Kawhi and Anderson were more humble and reserved. Heck, it was an issue here when Kawhi said he wanted to be the MVP, then he had to clarify he wanted to play at an MVP level. So, anyways I have gone on a tangent. I hope he puts his work and his action where his mouth is. I am of the opinion that dog that barks that much, doesn't have bite.

[Keepin' it real]

I still can't believe that no one's commented on Hanlan's absence yet.

Why comment on a scrub?

[ceperez]

A good point on Murray is that he didn't seem a Spursy type pick. Even though he was a favorite of mine, it was precisely based on physical attributes and his youth, the potential capacity to improve with his physical attributes. When I dug more on him, he didn't seem Spursy, and well you can already perceive the mixed reactions here. But PATFO was looking for some upside and he has it, and they have to feed his ambition and desire to improve, bc if he just stays complacent as he is, then he won't reach the ceiling the perceive for him. He was comparing himself not only to Leonard, but to Tony, in terms of guys that Pop coached from a very young age, such as himself, and who reached a higher ceiling than they were projected at... Tony resonated with him bc he was a late first round pick.

Can't say I like that part of his personality, proclaiming his ambitions like that and comparing himself to them, it seemed pretentious to me. OTOH someone may like that he's so open about his own ambitions, we are used to not having that young of players in the Spurs to begin with and the ones we have had like CoJo, Kawhi and Anderson were more humble and reserved. Heck, it was an issue here when Kawhi said he wanted to be the MVP, then he had to clarify he wanted to play at an MVP level. So, anyways I have gone on a tangent. I hope he puts his work and his action where his mouth is. I am of the opinion that dog that barks that much, doesn't have bite.

My take..... he likely will be traded. Too cocky for a 19 year old. Furthermore, his agent is not going to be the kind that will accept a pay cut. I would trade him for a promising big.

[Chinook]

My take..... he likely will be traded. Too cocky for a 19 year old. Furthermore, his agent is not going to be the kind that will accept a pay cut. I would trade him for a promising big.

http://chatfield.k12.mn.us/SiteCollectionImages/antique-glowing-copper-orb-icon-alphanumeric-full-set/068580-antique-glowing-copper-orb-icon-alphanumeric-full-set/068555-antique-glowing-copper-orb-icon-alphanumeric-number-sign.png

[Chinook]

The Hanlan trade didn't become official till about an hour ago.
These rosters are "subject to change."

Thanks.

[palangi]

My take..... he likely will be traded. Too cocky for a 19 year old. Furthermore, his agent is not going to be the kind that will accept a pay cut. I would trade him for a promising big.

Well its a good thing your take doesn't mean shit

[ceperez]

Spurs rookies, #4 Forbes and #10 Murray in NBA Rookie Ladder:

http://www.nba.com/2016/news/features/scott_howard_cooper/07/08/2016-17-rookie-ladder-summer-league-edition-ii/index.html

[raybies]

My take..... he likely will be traded. Too cocky for a 19 year old. Furthermore, his agent is not going to be the kind that will accept a pay cut. I would trade him for a promising big.

The influences from the spurs organization will wear off on him. He'll be in the middle. Too early to tell now but he's got a stars moves, shot, and personality. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing yet. While i want him to rise and be the next Tony, it may be best that pop makes sure he gets over him self first. While he's not spursy he does have character and has overcome struggle which is something the spurs look for in players. The real unspursy thing about him is his playground style of play which can be a bit flashy at times and individual but again he's 19. He's not cultured to the spurs. That will take some time. Luckily we got him young. This will be all he knows and gives him an increased shot of reaching his potential. From what I've heard, from previous coaches and himself is that he's a hard worker and very coachable. Doesn't seem like the problem child you are expecting him to be. He'll be surrounded by good influences with players of some of the highest integrity and character. They'll look out for him and make sure he doesn't go astray and for this I wonder if they'll keep him with big team for stretches for bonding and to build relationships.

[-21-]

PATFO wouldn't have taken him if they think he can't get over himself. It's too early to judge the guy.

[Mnky]

The spurs are used to getting their tails handed to them by cocky youngins, that's why spurfan is sensitive to confidence.

[wildbill2u]

With so many guys on the roster for Vegas I don't see how some of them will get any minutes to show what they can do. I'm glad NDoye made the roster.

[raybies]

On a sidenote Murray, Boston players were sticking to their guys on Murray's drives for the most part. Once teams get an advanced scouting report on him, they'll sag off which he'll either shoot or he can call for a pick and roll. Now in the pick and roll that's where the assists will come, not to mention if the gamelan with him is to pack the paint. It'll be hard for teams to do that with our shooting. Bertans and Forbes would have a field day.

[raybies]

With so many guys on the roster for Vegas I don't see how some of them will get any minutes to show what they can do. I'm glad NDoye made the roster.
He should start imo

[ceperez]

The influences from the spurs organization will wear off on him. He'll be in the middle. Too early to tell now but he's got a stars moves, shot, and personality. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing yet. While i want him to rise and be the next Tony, it may be best that pop makes sure he gets over him self first. While he's not spursy he does have character and has overcome struggle which is something the spurs look for in players. The real unspursy thing about him is his playground style of play which can be a bit flashy at times and individual but again he's 19. He's not cultured to the spurs. That will take some time. Luckily we got him young. This will be all he knows and gives him an increased shot of reaching his potential. From what I've heard, from previous coaches and himself is that he's a hard worker and very coachable. Doesn't seem like the problem child you are expecting him to be. He'll be surrounded by good influences with players of some of the highest integrity and character. They'll look out for him and make sure he doesn't go astray and for this I wonder if they'll keep him with big team for stretches for bonding and to build relationships.

The problem right now is the Spurs are loaded with noobs and don't have the luxury of baby sitting a wet behind the ears noob.

For your viewing pleasure, the Spurs noobs:

Anderson
Simmons
Dedmon
Bertans
Livio Jean Charles
Forbes
Murray

That is 7 players! I would like to think that Anderson is a veteran, but he's only 22 years old!

Spurs lost Duncan, West and Diaw... all 3 players capable of coaching the younger guys.

We now are left with Parker, Green, Leonard, Aldridge and Pau... none look like the mentor types.

The only real mentors left are Manu and Mills.

[raybies]

The spurs are used to getting their tails handed to them by cocky youngins, that's why spurfan is sensitive to confidence.
Yeah well he's got confidence but he's got some cockiness to him.

[Dex]

Yeah well he's got confidence but he's got some cockiness to him.

Spurs could use some cockiness, tbqh.

[raybies]

Pop
Tony
Manu
Patty
Paul
LMA
Kawhi

They'll have players that will say something and the rookies will listen. We got like five hall of famers on the squad and that's not including if Duncan returns, although unlikely. Even Simmons had shown some leadership qualities.

[picnroll]

If nothing else the development of Murray will be interesting. My bet is he'll be one of the more controversial players of the new generation picking up where the Manu vs Parker clique battles left off.

[Mnky]

Spurs could use some cockiness, tbqh.

Agreed. That's why role players go off on them. They lack the killer instinct to put them in their place when they flex on em.

[peacemaker885]

Sorry if posted already.

Davis Bertans and LJC to play in Vegas Summer League. (http://www.poundingtherock.com/2016/7/8/12131092/davis-bertans-livio-jean-charles-spurs-las-vegas)

[palangi]

The problem right now is the Spurs are loaded with noobs and don't have the luxury of baby sitting a wet behind the ears noob.

For your viewing pleasure, the Spurs noobs:

Anderson
Simmons
Dedmon
Bertans
Livio Jean Charles
Forbes
Murray

That is 7 players! I would like to think that Anderson is a veteran, but he's only 22 years old!

Spurs lost Duncan, West and Diaw... all 3 players capable of coaching the younger guys.

We now are left with Parker, Green, Leonard, Aldridge and Pau... none look like the mentor types.

The only real mentors left are Manu and Mills.
You are trying real hard to villianize this kid. Did he kick your dog?