The Parisian Patisserie of Victor Wembanyama

[exstatic]

I'm 99,99999999% sure if this was Chet Holmgren or any other non-Spur young player saying something as cringe as this, you wouldn't be here defending it, tbh.

Could Chet back it up? I think that’s what it comes down to.

[DAF86]

Could Chet back it up? I think that’s what it comes down to.

To me it doesn't come down to that. I never understood people that think it's OK to be an asshole if you are good (not saying Wemby is an asshole).

It is like the Curry conversation in the Olympics thread. You being great won't make your excessive celebrations any less obnoxious, tbh. I prefer guys like Duncan, Manu, Messi, etc. Being great is not an excuse to be a douchebag.

[Pauleta14]

Not gonna lie, "I'm worried for the opponents" is kind of a douchey quote, tbh.

Just stay quiet and let your game do the talking, imvho.

It would be douchey for 99% of the players, I agree.

It only makes sense when u have the abilities and the expectations (for yourself and from everybody else).

It's also a simple symtom of an extrem frustration loosing a game, we all thought France had very little chances to win but that clearly he and some thought they must have won.

[Pauleta14]

Less douchey than all the crap the US team does, the sleep thing, etc.

I don’t believe French always translates well into English. To me, the language isn’t as nuanced, and comes across as more blunt or douchey.

Victor isn’t Tim or David, and has always spoken out more and put himself on the line. To expect him to act like them isn’t rational, because he isn’t them. He’s spoken out pretty much since DAY ONE.

Perfectly put

+Victor has shown since his arrival an above average level of ethic, education and sense of respect towards everyone, opponents included. Like REALLY above average

[Pauleta14]

now time to work on his jumpshot/3-point to reach KD level in offense; if he can do that with his defensive game, he will be unstoppable. But we know many players who were never able to develop a reliable jumpshot.

I don't even think he has THAT much work to do on his jump shot tbh, it's already more than decent in most aspects, more on his shots selection and feet (way higher % when well positioned) and hands (needs to learn to keep them high) positioning.

I can't wait

[MannyIsGod]

To me it doesn't come down to that. I never understood people that think it's OK to be an asshole if you are good (not saying Wemby is an asshole).

It is like the Curry conversation in the Olympics thread. You being great won't make your excessive celebrations any less obnoxious, tbh. I prefer guys like Duncan, Manu, Messi, etc. Being great is not an excuse to be a douchebag.

Because not everyone thinks its being an asshole? I literally see nothing wrong with this or with what Curry did so why would I have to defend it? Just because you think its being an asshole doesn't make that a fact. Believe that if you want, but I don't want sports to become some soul-less shit devoid of emotion. I like when players are confident in themselves and express themselves.

[Pauleta14]

That's interesting to read and I am by no means any kind of expert, but I've known and worked with several linguists including professors and they've been pretty solid that English is one of the harder languages.

English is BY VERY FAR the easiest language in the world mate. it' not even close.

Especially grammar (no genders) and syntax wise (english has rare abilitity to create new words by association of multiple, or use an adjectifs as verbs etc).

Now if you talk about the accent, I agree

[MannyIsGod]

It would be douchey for 99% of the players, I agree.

It only makes sense when u have the abilities and the expectations (for yourself and from everybody else).

It's also a simple symtom of an extrem frustration loosing a game, we all thought France had very little chances to win but that clearly he and some thought they must have won.

Wait, so when a player can back it up its not douchey? I definitely dont' think what Wemby said was wrong but you were all up in the other thread saying some nonsense and are in this one contradicting yourself pretty badly.


Just say its OK because you like Wemby and that its not OK for Curry because you don't like him. You don't need to tie yourself in knots like this.

[Pauleta14]

Wait, so when a player can back it up its not douchey? I definitely dont' think what Wemby said was wrong but you were all up in the other thread saying some nonsense and are in this one contradicting yourself pretty badly.


Just say its OK because you like Wemby and that its not OK for Curry because you don't like him. You don't need to tie yourself in knots like this.


No, not by iself, but combined with with the expectations the rest of the world has, it means he owns it. It's a great sign bc in his position the worst would be getting eaten by those expectations/pression.

It wasn't said in an egotistic way I think, but more in an angry (post defeat) and ambitious way.

And no, I don't just defend him bc he's french or I like him, no need to insult my integrity, you probably miss those posts, but I do criticise him a lot and don't have naturall a "fanboy" culture/attitude (I despises ppl/adults like that).

I do have empthie tho

[Pauleta14]

It all depends on which is your first language. But, in general, there's data that supports that English is one of quickest languages to learn. Global exposure probably plays a huge role in this, but English also has less grammatical conjugations than most languages, specially Latin derived ones (which French is a part of).

The difficult part about English is that letters and sounds don't have a direct correlation, which, for the life of me, I will never understand why that is the case :lol. That's why is more difficult for English speaking folks to get a name pronunciation right when reading it for the first time.

I have a lot of spanish speaking friends and anytime they need to say a word that starts with a "s" it's hillarious

They can't say "Spaghetti" for ex but only "Espaghetti" :lol

(the french's accent is even worst let's be clear ^^)

[Limguogolo]

This whole celebration thing is the result of a TikTok generation (actually started way before through all of Lebron's gestures). There is nothing natural about these celebrations. Everyone feels obligated to find an “iconic” gesture to gain popularity and make some “views”. If they don’t, they just reproduce the gestures they’ve seen done by other stars on TikTok or elsewhere. It's a bit like showing too much celebration on a dunk or flex. In the theater, we call all these gestures lazzi. It’s commedia dell’arte, cinema. Not very respectful, very often, but it's now part of the show. And like all nonsense, the public has every right to find them out of place or repetitive.

Doing nothing, not celebrating, remaining stoic would already be a lazzo in itself. Everyone plays a role. The one who does not express any “inconical” celebration and does not use any jokes will play the role of the sad clown, Pierrot, Buster Keaton, or, worse, be the butt of a joke, the one who is mocked (perhaps a reason why certain clowns on a floor prefer to overplay their celebrations, it is also sometimes a sign of insecurity, Doctor Freud whispers to me).

I would be curious to see if these gestures become the norm in the Euroleague (they are quite rare: no time to celebrate, the Serbian coach will yell at you if you don't get back on defense).

[Pauleta14]

This whole celebration thing is the result of a TikTok generation (actually started way before through all of Lebron's gestures). There is nothing natural about these celebrations. Everyone feels obligated to find an “iconic” gesture to gain popularity and make some “views”. If they don’t, they just reproduce the gestures they’ve seen done by other stars on TikTok or elsewhere. It's a bit like showing too much celebration on a dunk or flex. In the theater, we call all these gestures lazzi. It’s commedia dell’arte, cinema. Not very respectful, very often, but it's now part of the show. And like all nonsense, the public has every right to find them out of place or repetitive.

Doing nothing, not celebrating, remaining stoic would already be a lazzo in itself. Everyone plays a role. The one who does not express any “inconical” celebration and does not use any jokes will play the role of the sad clown, Pierrot, Buster Keaton, or, worse, be the butt of a joke, the one who is mocked (perhaps a reason why certain clowns on a floor prefer to overplay their celebrations, it is also sometimes a sign of insecurity, Doctor Freud whispers to me).

I would be curious to see if these gestures become the norm in the Euroleague (they are quite rare: no time to celebrate, the Serbian coach will yell at you if you don't get back on defense).

Good points

As Schroeder reminded a few days ago, the biggest diff between NBA and Euro basket is the entertainment aspect.

I don't see those behaviour happening in europe unless that changes

[tonight...you]

English is BY VERY FAR the easiest language in the world mate. it' not even close.

Especially grammar (no genders) and syntax wise (english has rare abilitity to create new words by association of multiple, or use an adjectifs as verbs etc).

Now if you talk about the accent, I agree
That's cool. I'm not one to dispute as I'm not on the other side of the fence, so to speak.

[DAF86]

Because not everyone thinks its being an asshole? I literally see nothing wrong with this or with what Curry did so why would I have to defend it? Just because you think its being an asshole doesn't make that a fact. Believe that if you want, but I don't want sports to become some soul-less shit devoid of emotion. I like when players are confident in themselves and express themselves.

"Douchebagery" is in the eye of the beholder. If you don't mind it, good for you, but If many people find certain actions to be "douchey", it is because there's something there.

It's like Louis says at 4:50:

UOn2fW75EtE?si=D53KHHkqASjdnJym

[rjv]

Wait, so when a player can back it up its not douchey? I definitely dont' think what Wemby said was wrong but you were all up in the other thread saying some nonsense and are in this one contradicting yourself pretty badly.


Just say its OK because you like Wemby and that its not OK for Curry because you don't like him. You don't need to tie yourself in knots like this.

although it is a scientific fact that lebron is a douche.

[widowmaker]

Lebron got posterized by the dancing bear and got back up like nothing happened lol.

[ambchang]

It’s cringe when curry does it, it’s cringe when lebron does it and it’s cringe when wemby does it. But let’s be clear, the way wemby did it is ok because he can back it up and how did he back it up? By losing the game. Tbh neither guys couldn’t back it up he had they won. Like what the hell? It’s hypocrisy and that’s it. I would prefer wemby just promise he will improve and exact revenge, but I’m not his dad. I would rather curry just shut the hell up and win graciously, but I’m not his coach. Some people find it entertaining song that’s all cool. I just can’t understand how some people can find one unacceptable while the other one is not only acceptable but necessary.

And let’s not act like players from the past didn’t do it. Pedo poses after dunks all the time. I’m sure he would’ve done it after clutch shots too but he’s didn’t have any in 20 years. Jordan’s shrug when drexler did absolutely nothing to him, dunk and stare downs on Ewing, Kobe’s non stop celebration in front of other people’s benches when he won over far weaker competition after riding shaqs coattails.

[TD 21]

To me it doesn't come down to that. I never understood people that think it's OK to be an asshole if you are good (not saying Wemby is an asshole).

It is like the Curry conversation in the Olympics thread. You being great won't make your excessive celebrations any less obnoxious, tbh. I prefer guys like Duncan, Manu, Messi, etc. Being great is not an excuse to be a douchebag.



This whole celebration thing is the result of a TikTok generation (actually started way before through all of Lebron's gestures). There is nothing natural about these celebrations. Everyone feels obligated to find an “iconic” gesture to gain popularity and make some “views”. If they don’t, they just reproduce the gestures they’ve seen done by other stars on TikTok or elsewhere. It's a bit like showing too much celebration on a dunk or flex. In the theater, we call all these gestures lazzi. It’s commedia dell’arte, cinema. Not very respectful, very often, but it's now part of the show. And like all nonsense, the public has every right to find them out of place or repetitive.

Doing nothing, not celebrating, remaining stoic would already be a lazzo in itself. Everyone plays a role. The one who does not express any “inconical” celebration and does not use any jokes will play the role of the sad clown, Pierrot, Buster Keaton, or, worse, be the butt of a joke, the one who is mocked (perhaps a reason why certain clowns on a floor prefer to overplay their celebrations, it is also sometimes a sign of insecurity, Doctor Freud whispers to me).

I would be curious to see if these gestures become the norm in the Euroleague (they are quite rare: no time to celebrate, the Serbian coach will yell at you if you don't get back on defense).

Some of it is generational in terms of this predetermined, performative nonsense (right down to pictures), but in general it's American logic/culture for you.

Everything has to be a "show" because apparently the game itself isn't enough which is why there's all these other bells and whistles, both in arena/stadium and broadcast wise.

[ismael-robert]

All the foreigners n dems can't take real manhood...its too toxic for them

[DAF86]

Speaking of nuanced languages:

UKVRaUDFN2Q?si=p6R7yQJyGHqGZxSE

[DAF86]

All the foreigners n dems can't take real manhood...its too toxic for them

The guys that complain about everything being political, making everything political, as per the usual. :lol

[rjv]

The guys that complain about everything being political, making everything political, as per the usual. :lol


now, those people are the real douche bags.

[Limguogolo]

In all the conjugations of the world and in all the languages ​​of the world, “these people” is followed by the mode “impudent”, which strongly relativizes the scope of the assertion made.

[rjv]

In all the conjugations of the world and in all the languages ​​of the world, “these people” is followed by the mode “impudent”, which strongly relativizes the scope of the assertion made.

and i thought derrida, and his brethren of post-structuralists, are hard to understand: then again, those people are often quite enigmatic.

[scott]

This whole celebration thing is the result of a TikTok generation (actually started way before through all of Lebron's gestures). There is nothing natural about these celebrations. Everyone feels obligated to find an “iconic” gesture to gain popularity and make some “views”. If they don’t, they just reproduce the gestures they’ve seen done by other stars on TikTok or elsewhere. It's a bit like showing too much celebration on a dunk or flex. In the theater, we call all these gestures lazzi. It’s commedia dell’arte, cinema. Not very respectful, very often, but it's now part of the show. And like all nonsense, the public has every right to find them out of place or repetitive.

Doing nothing, not celebrating, remaining stoic would already be a lazzo in itself. Everyone plays a role. The one who does not express any “inconical” celebration and does not use any jokes will play the role of the sad clown, Pierrot, Buster Keaton, or, worse, be the butt of a joke, the one who is mocked (perhaps a reason why certain clowns on a floor prefer to overplay their celebrations, it is also sometimes a sign of insecurity, Doctor Freud whispers to me).

I would be curious to see if these gestures become the norm in the Euroleague (they are quite rare: no time to celebrate, the Serbian coach will yell at you if you don't get back on defense).

Yes, I distinctly remember that crazy interview where Babe Ruth (calling his shot), Michael Jordan (the shrug), and Ickey Woods (the shuffle) said it because they wanted go viral on TikTok.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This whole celebration thing is the result of a TikTok generation (actually started way before through all of Lebron's gestures). There is nothing natural about these celebrations. Everyone feels obligated to find an “iconic” gesture to gain popularity and make some “views”. If they don’t, they just reproduce the gestures they’ve seen done by other stars on TikTok or elsewhere. It's a bit like showing too much celebration on a dunk or flex. In the theater, we call all these gestures lazzi. It’s commedia dell’arte, cinema. Not very respectful, very often, but it's now part of the show. And like all nonsense, the public has every right to find them out of place or repetitive.

Doing nothing, not celebrating, remaining stoic would already be a lazzo in itself. Everyone plays a role. The one who does not express any “inconical” celebration and does not use any jokes will play the role of the sad clown, Pierrot, Buster Keaton, or, worse, be the butt of a joke, the one who is mocked (perhaps a reason why certain clowns on a floor prefer to overplay their celebrations, it is also sometimes a sign of insecurity, Doctor Freud whispers to me).

I would be curious to see if these gestures become the norm in the Euroleague (they are quite rare: no time to celebrate, the Serbian coach will yell at you if you don't get back on defense).

Considering the whole debate over the virtue of stocism goes back to at least Roman times I don't see how TikTok is at fault.

[Strategic]

Yes, I distinctly remember that crazy interview where Babe Ruth (calling his shot), Michael Jordan (the shrug), and Ickey Woods (the shuffle) said it because they wanted go viral on TikTok. Don’t forget Broadway Joe’s Super Bowl boast.

[Pauleta14]

Are you all THAT emotionally touched to miss the whole point?

Do u take it as an offense to the USA?? This is trully fascinating :lol

(none of ur past "examples" are relevant to the point/subject)

[scott]

Are you all THAT emotionally touched to miss the whole point?

Do u take it as an offense to the USA?? This is trully fascinating :lol

(none of ur past "examples" are relevant to the point/subject)

What is the whole point? I'm not emotional impacted by any of it... but it seems like "Wemby's comments okay because he can back it up (by losing) but Steph giving night-night gesture bad because he can't back it (by single-handedly icing the game for the US)"

[Pauleta14]

What is the whole point? I'm not emotional impacted by any of it... but it seems like "Wemby's comments okay because he can back it up (by losing) but Steph giving night-night gesture bad because he can't back it (by single-handedly icing the game for the US)"

Nah come on mate, you're trying to act as if MJ's shrug (that he only did once and wasn't even targetting his opponents) is the same thing than Curry telling his opponents to go to sleep all the time :lol

I know the way you think globally, have read u on many topics, you're not idiots, so the only rational explanation is that you guys got offended as if we were targetting your culture or country, no idea tbh ^^

He didn't say anything extraordinary about this generation's obsession with clickbait and trying to be in the news/social medias with special hand shakes, dances etc

Water is still wet.

[scott]

Nah come on mate, you're trying to act as if MJ's shrug (that he only did once and wasn't even targetting his opponents) is the same thing than Curry telling his opponents to go to sleep all the time :lol

I know the way you think globally, have read u on many topics, you're not idiots, so the only rational explanation is that you guys got offended as if we were targetting your culture or country, no idea tbh ^^

He didn't say anything extraordinary about this generation's obsession with clickbait and trying to be in the news/social medias with special hand shakes, dances etc

Water is still wet.

If Jordan's shrug was the only thing he'd ever done, that would be one thing... but IIRC he was a fairly notorious shit talker. What about Reggie Miller? None of this is new, is the point.

Steph quite literally put France to sleep in that game... no qualms about his gestures at all. Without Steph, Wemby has a real chance to lead France to that upset... it was just an unreal performance by Curry.

I just think it's silly to get upset at Steph but then be all about Wemby's "I fear for everyone else" comments. Here's a take: I love them both!

[The Truth #6]

Social media/the Internet has definitely affected most aspects of life, so yeah, sports celebrations could be a part of that change, too.

[Pauleta14]

If Jordan's shrug was the only thing he'd ever done, that would be one thing... but IIRC he was a fairly notorious shit talker. What about Reggie Miller? None of this is new, is the point.

Steph quite literally put France to sleep in that game... no qualms about his gestures at all. Without Steph, Wemby has a real chance to lead France to that upset... it was just an unreal performance by Curry.

I just think it's silly to get upset at Steph but then be all about Wemby's "I fear for everyone else" comments. Here's a take: I love them both!

I still don't get the comp with MJ, he never had his traditional dance or trash talked when unprovoked... He trashed ppl who talked shit to him! :lol

How is it comparable with doing the shimmy or the "night night" gesture WHEN UNPROVOKED??

I'd say the same thing if it was Germany or any other nation, it was a beautifull game, US end up barely beating a team they were supposed to beat by +16pts vs euro or soon to be retired players and a 20yo rookie AND they though "yeah let's make fun of them!!" :lol It's just weird and didn't eist before.

Anyways, no big deal, we can just agree to disagree, but as I said before it's just tough for me to understand what u don't get considering you are Spurs fans and that it's litterally part of the Spurs identity to not have those type of clownish behaviours.

[scott]

I still don't get the comp with MJ, he never had his traditional dance or trash talked when unprovoked... He trashed ppl who talked shit to him! :lol

How is it comparable with doing the shimmy or the "night night" gesture WHEN UNPROVOKED??

I'd say the same thing if it was Germany or any other nation, it was a beautifull game, US end up barely beating a team they were supposed to beat by +16pts vs euro or soon to be retired players and a 20yo rookie AND they though "yeah let's make fun of them!!" :lol It's just weird and didn't eist before.

Anyways, no big deal, we can just agree to disagree, but as I said before it's just tough for me to understand what u don't get considering you are Spurs fans and that it's litterally part of the Spurs identity to not have those type of clownish behaviours.

I'll just say that I didn't view the shimmy or "night night" as a making fun of France at all. I just saw it as expressing him showing his emotion in a huge game (after all, it was the Gold medal match). I think stuff like Shaq filthy dunk over Chris Dudley (and the aftermath) was far more disrespectful. Honestly, I think some of Sochan's shenanigans (which largely get celebrated on this site) are more disrespectful. But at the end of the day, these are all adult men - they can handle it.

[Pauleta14]

I'll just say that I didn't view the shimmy or "night night" as a making fun of France at all. I just saw it as expressing him showing his emotion in a huge game (after all, it was the Gold medal match). I think stuff like Shaq filthy dunk over Chris Dudley (and the aftermath) was far more disrespectful. Honestly, I think some of Sochan's shenanigans (which largely get celebrated on this site) are more disrespectful. But at the end of the day, these are all adult men - they can handle it.

I tend to think it's not done in an "evil" way, he, like a lot of them, just don't realise how unflaterring it is. I'm not even sure it's typcally a US thing, it's a generational thing and today's culture is worldwide, more and more similar.

I agree on Sochan, I don't like it bc it's 100% entertainment, he's not a "bad guy" , who grew up in the streets and had to build this type of behaviour. He just thinks it looks cool and probably has the memory of a few players being impacted. I hope he quits this BS

I also agree on Shaq, who imo might have been one of the 1st to understand the impact of highlights and the entertainment factor in the NBA. All his antics eneded up costing him a lot tho, he kinda trapped himself in the cartoon role.

Look, it could very well be me becoming an old grumpy dude (I'm 46), but I'm from an era where stoicism looked cool in sports. All the champions I admire are stoic and class in win and losses, the only excrptions being fighters, but it's not realy a "sport" to me.

And please go bck and watch some MJ film buddy, you can't be serious wit this comp :)

[cutewizard]

since Wemby is our resident alien, so...........

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26tqx4PLyBU

[JPB]

I've never been fan of any player self glorifying, and acting like you're the ultimate shit or did anything else than putting a ball in a circle never did it to me. Me likes some class., specially in a hostile environment. Curry's flurry was great, no need to waste it with some antics or "who's your daddy know" stuff. We know it's great, just let it speak for itself and win the playfully hostile crowd respect, specially that it's the Olympics... I like when it's ultimately all about the sport and great moments and I can appreciate an opponent talent when I see it.

As for Wemby, I'll put that on his sitll young age and how young people today likes to feature their life with wannabee tough, inspirational or "profound" quotes, but wemby's quote looks like some wannabee tough stuff you say as a teen or in bad western (or a young Clint Eastwood movie)... Confidence is one thing, but arrogance is another one, specially that's it's a team game and it makes it look that it's all about yourself...

Vic had a great year but so far bu he won crap and spurs are tanking next year too... So Keep working and stay humble, things are not always going the way you want or imagined in sports, not mention injuries. it's not a movie or social media where you can write and fantazise your life.

[JPB]

And that's off topic since Jordan was never really showboating or trolling the crowd, letting his game speak for itself; but for the record he was always known as a complete ass on the court, provoking and trash talking opponents to motivate himself and destabilize them, mostly as the initiator (I mean who could afford to troll him in his prime?).

He was as much a bully on than off the court.

[cutewizard]

I've never been fan of any player self glorifying, and acting like you're the ultimate shit or did anything else than putting a ball in a circle never did it to me. Me likes some class., specially in a hostile environment. Curry's flurry was great, no need to waste it with some antics or "who's your daddy know" stuff. We know it's great, just let it speak for itself and win the playfully hostile crowd respect, specially that it's the Olympics... I like when it's ultimately all about the sport and great moments and I can appreciate an opponent talent when I see it.

As for Wemby, I'll put that on his sitll young age and how young people today likes to feature their life with wannabee tough, inspirational or "profound" quotes, but wemby's quote looks like some wannabee tough stuff you say as a teen or in bad western (or a young Clint Eastwood movie)... Confidence is one thing, but arrogance is another one, specially that's it's a team game and it makes it look that it's all about yourself...

Vic had a great year but so far bu he won crap and spurs are tanking next year too... So Keep working and stay humble, things are not always going the way you want or imagined in sports, not mention injuries. it's not a movie or social media where you can write and fantazise your life.

---------------------------------------------

That is why we love Manu >> he is the epitome of class......Wemby should spend time with Manu and Timmy more

Avatars of Class that i can remember right now :

Manu
Timmy
Bill Russell
Arvydas Sabonis
Ramon Fernandez
Samboy Lim
David Robinson

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmw07m1_Upo

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71LmMSNIWeo

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUvSn7GASGU

[cutewizard]

I miss Manu............

[ambchang]

Acting like MJ didn’t call mugsy bogues a MFing midget :lol

[Brazil]

---------------------------------------------

That is why we love Manu >> he is the epitome of class......Wemby should spend time with Manu and Timmy more

Avatars of Class that i can remember right now :

Manu
Timmy
Bill Russell
Arvydas Sabonis
Ramon Fernandez
Samboy Lim
David Robinson

:lol what ?

Manu killed an innocent animal
Tim laughed at a referee
and David did not sign an autograph to young shaq

[Pauleta14]

:lol what ?

Manu killed an innocent animal
Tim laughed at a referee
and David did not sign an autograph to young shaq

Shaq admitted it was a BS story btw. It's so messed up to let a story like that fly for decades :lol

[Brazil]

Shaq admitted it was a BS story btw. It's so messed up to let a story like that fly for decades :lol

what an asshole tbh... :lol

[exstatic]

Shaq admitted it was a BS story btw. It's so messed up to let a story like that fly for decades :lol

Yes, the timeline was wrong. When David hegan his rookie season, Shaq was already at LSU.

[couchman]

Talking shit has been a part of basketball my entire life.
Put on your big girl panties

[Thomas82]

I saw that Wemby's rating for NBA2K25 is 91. I thought it would have been around 93. I can see him being a 96 by the end of the season. The only other Spur I've seen so far is Stephon Castle with a 73.

[scott]

Love this new stat.

Wemby led the league in HELLNAHS last season.

https://i.redd.it/zuvfe17hf9jd1.png

[LeBowen]

Wemby led the league in HELLNAHS last season.


That's a good one.

Another one I saw was ABDUCTION. :lol

Abduction is a block where the blocker immediately gains possession or control without the ball first touching the floor, backboard, rim or any other Player first.

Wemby had 15 of those in his rookie season.

[jeebus]

Spurfan so used to their players not talking trash that when it does happen, they call him a douche bag. Good job, you soft fucks.

[heyheymymy]

The OHHELLNAH aka the NOPE OUT

[Limguogolo]

That's a good one.

Another one I saw was ABDUCTION. :lol

Abduction is a block where the blocker immediately gains possession or control without the ball first touching the floor, backboard, rim or any other Player first.

Wemby had 15 of those in his rookie season.
I don't like it. You don't have time to celebrate your block. It's NBA no Eurofags.

[JPB]

Spurfan so used to their players not talking trash that when it does happen, they call him a douche bag. Good job, you soft fucks.

That Wemby quote wasn't trash talking.

[widowmaker]

I saw that Wemby's rating for NBA2K25 is 91. I thought it would have been around 93. I can see him being a 96 by the end of the season. The only other Spur I've seen so far is Stephon Castle with a 73.

Im going to feel sorry for my opponents.

[MultiTroll]

What is Vic up to these days?

[drpill]

What is Vic up to these days?

https://y.yarn.co/94baddf4-0593-41df-a547-33566b88a633_text.gif

[MannyIsGod]

I'm 99,99999999% sure if this was Chet Holmgren or any other non-Spur young player saying something as cringe as this, you wouldn't be here defending it, tbh.

I would be but I 100% agree with you about others in here. There are different standards applied to players they like. Its pretty damn clear based on their comments in other threads.

[MannyIsGod]

I tend to think it's not done in an "evil" way, he, like a lot of them, just don't realise how unflaterring it is. I'm not even sure it's typcally a US thing, it's a generational thing and today's culture is worldwide, more and more similar.

I agree on Sochan, I don't like it bc it's 100% entertainment, he's not a "bad guy" , who grew up in the streets and had to build this type of behaviour. He just thinks it looks cool and probably has the memory of a few players being impacted. I hope he quits this BS

I also agree on Shaq, who imo might have been one of the 1st to understand the impact of highlights and the entertainment factor in the NBA. All his antics eneded up costing him a lot tho, he kinda trapped himself in the cartoon role.

Look, it could very well be me becoming an old grumpy dude (I'm 46), but I'm from an era where stoicism looked cool in sports. All the champions I admire are stoic and class in win and losses, the only excrptions being fighters, but it's not realy a "sport" to me.

And please go bck and watch some MJ film buddy, you can't be serious wit this comp :)

I guess everyone is wrong about MJ but you. I watched him play my dude. I don't need to watch videos. I didn't need the Last Dance. I saw it. Its just you that has one set of rules for certain players and doesn't apply them evenly.

If you have to keep asking people why they think its the same then maybe its not other people who don't get it.

[Pauleta14]

I guess everyone is wrong about MJ but you. I watched him play my dude. I don't need to watch videos. I didn't need the Last Dance. I saw it. Its just you that has one set of rules for certain players and doesn't apply them evenly.

If you have to keep asking people why they think its the same then maybe its not other people who don't get it.

Please give me an example of MJ trash talking when unprovoked or not in a 1vs1 particular duel...

And no, it's not just me

[Pauleta14]

https://youtube.com/shorts/ripqxUaa57g?si=6vNkiC7wq_ONR-lq

[DAF86]

Spurfan so used to their players not talking trash that when it does happen, they call him a douche bag. Good job, you soft fucks.

This isn't trashtalk. This is a cringe comment that will only bring more pressure and hate into himself. Fans of other teams are wating fork and knife in hand for the first semi-bad game from Wemby to bring back this quote and shit all over the kid.

[exstatic]

This isn't trashtalk. This is a cringe comment that will only bring more pressure and hate into himself. Fans of other teams are wating fork and knife in hand for the first semi-bad game from Wemby to bring back this quote and shit all over the kid.

Yeah, except they can just keep waiting. He takes shit extremely personal. He smothered Chet, and in that last Denver game, after Aaron Gordon pushed him down and walked over him during a dead ball in the first half, he dropped 17 points in 3 fucking minutes in the second half, leading to a win that knocked Denver out of their playoff position. He doesnt Fucking care what other fans think, or their reactions. The meanest, nastiest NBA fans are a far cut above the meanest nastiest Euro fans. They heat up coins with lighters, and throw them at opposing players, and refs that displease them. There’s no NBA fan base that’s going to do anything to intimidate Wemby.

[Pauleta14]

This isn't trashtalk. This is a cringe comment that will only bring more pressure and hate into himself. Fans of other teams are wating fork and knife in hand for the first semi-bad game from Wemby to bring back this quote and shit all over the kid.

It's just a way of holding himself accountable and keep the pressure "on".

You might recall last season's firsts interviews where he explained that he takes it as a "duty"/responsability to try to reach his potential bc of the privileges and abilities he possesses.

It's cringe when ppl who do that try to bring something into existence but don't really have the "profile". Wemby does have it and have done it already multiple times.

[KingKev]

In the last few days I’ve seen both KG and LMA say that Wemby should really just be focusing on toning down his offensive game and simplifying it to a few goto moves in these early stages and not get carried away with all the mesmerizing/fancy free-styling we saw in year 1. I tend to agree. Hope the coaching staff are listening.

I wonder how mucb time LMA has spent working with him to date.

[exstatic]

In the last few days I’ve seen both KG and LMA say that Wemby should really just be focusing on toning down his offensive game and simplifying it to a few goto moves in these early stages and not get carried away with all the mesmerizing/fancy free-styling we saw in year 1. I tend to agree. Hope the coaching staff are listening.

I wonder how mucb time LMA has spent working with him to date.

Was it ever confirmed that happened? When that post went up, the article was already a year old, meaning last summer, and I never heard a word about LMA being at the new facility or working with Wemby. Kinda seems like his request got shot down.

[KingKev]

Was it ever confirmed that happened? When that post went up, the article was already a year old, meaning last summer, and I never heard a word about LMA being at the new facility or working with Wemby. Kinda seems like his request got shot down.

I thought I recall seeing pics with LMA back training with the young guys but it wasn’t recent.

LMA’s point was that for him his mid range turn around was something he knew he could get off in almost any situation (tough to block) and he liked getting warm with it in the 1st and always knew he could get to it late in the game. He said Wemby should focus in something similar in his early years to be more impactful on the offensive end.

KG basically said he just needs to perfect one or two goto moves and ditch the fancy stuff for now and it is over for the league on the offensive end too.

High praise from both.

[Spurs Homer]

In the last few days I’ve seen both KG and LMA say that Wemby should really just be focusing on toning down his offensive game and simplifying it to a few goto moves in these early stages and not get carried away with all the mesmerizing/fancy free-styling we saw in year 1. I tend to agree. Hope the coaching staff are listening.

I wonder how mucb time LMA has spent working with him to date.

I strongly disagree with that way of thinking. I hope the coaches are not listening and I am pretty sure Wemby will take the advice, say thank you...

and then continue being what makes him the unicorn.

I know it sounds crazy to say- but those two guys had some greatness and stellar careers - but they can only see what their conventional brain sees and they are making common sense points.

Wemby is not going to limit himself and will keep working hard and will hopefully always stay creative, stay motivated to do the unthinkable- what no one else has done.

You wouldn't tell a 9 year old savant prodigy pianist to keep it simple and just run your scales and do not try to get fancy or go too far into music theory - just keep it basic.

Thats my view and I am certain Wemby is politely not going to limit himself even if a hall of famer thinks he knows what wemby should be doing.

[exstatic]

I strongly disagree with that way of thinking. I hope the coaches are not listening and I am pretty sure Wemby will take the advice, say thank you...

and then continue being what makes him the unicorn.

I know it sounds crazy to say- but those two guys had some greatness and stellar careers - but they can only see what their conventional brain sees and they are making common sense points.

Wemby is not going to limit himself and will keep working hard and will hopefully always stay creative, stay motivated to do the unthinkable- what no one else has done.

You wouldn't tell a 9 year old savant prodigy pianist to keep it simple and just run your scales and do not try to get fancy or go too far into music theory - just keep it basic.

Thats my view and I am certain Wemby is politely not going to limit himself even if a hall of famer thinks he knows what wemby should be doing.

Yeah, I’m thinking he needs to be more KD than KG.

[Spurs Homer]

Yeah, I’m thinking he needs to be more KD than KG.

Yup - and even that is too conservative.

I mean, the advice those guys gave is not bad, seems to be logical - but I think this season will show a bunch of new things not seen before and every time wemby blows peoples minds...

then they might start to visualize a limitless potential...instead of what we normal humans instinctively try and do: see only what we know or have seen before and try to make that fit into a future that is not bound by that past if that makes sense.

[CGD]

Maybe the only human on the planet who can call Wemby “shrimp”.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/30/sport/morteza-mehrzadselakjani-paralympics-spt-intl/index.html

[ambchang]

I would like to see Wemby build things one step at a time, and focus on consistently nailing some go-to shots in the sense of skyhook, one legged fade, turnaround, dream shake, or bank shot. That alone will open up so much of everything else for him (and the team of course) and the other aspects will be easier to develop, as the defence will have to constantly worry about pull up with these unstoppable shots.

[Strategic]

Yeah, I’m thinking he needs to be more KD than KG.KD may have still won 2 NBA titles if he stayed his entire career in OKC. How different would the league look if that one thing would have happened differently.

[exstatic]

KD may have still won 2 NBA titles if he stayed his entire career in OKC. How different would the league look if that one thing would have happened differently.

If their stupid owner would have been willing to pay a couple of mil in luxtax, they might have been a dynasty. They shipped Harden out for basically nothing. The other two eventually leaving was inevitable.

[spurraider21]

even if OKC was unwilling to get into tax, they could have accomplished that while keeping harden by just not paying Perkins 8 mil per year around that time

[Limguogolo]

Creativity does not have to be restricted or simplified. Victor is set to become the most complete player of all time. He has the best tools in history to be That player. These tips are those given to a 25-year-old player who is struggling to find a girl. Victor is the prophet, He will not have a girl. Will not have children. He's creativity. He shapes the world as He sees it. Every day, He hears everyone's prayers: “Wemby, Thou who art up there, can Thou do this or that for me?” And Victor only has to produce an unexpected response to each one: proof of the superiority of His creativity. And then He will hear criticism saying: “Yes, but Wemby, Thou who art up there and doing things so well on the floor, why don't Thou give us a title?” And one of His apostles will respond: “Victor is not even on His sixth day. We have only seen a little light of what He is capable of so far. Hold on for the rest. There will be no go-to-move, He will be God making love to the god of the earth as well as to that of the heavens in the thousand and one positions of the upgraded basketball Kama Sutra. We do not give advice to these alien beings. We watch and shut up. This is the way. You want a title before the seventh day? But maybe the title is Vic. Vic's ways are inscrutable.”


I tell you, I saw Him. I said to Him: “Victor, who art you?” And He just said: “I'm the Artist. The One who knows. The One who has reached enlightenment. This is just the beginning.” I thought for a few moments, and said: “Ah.”


Now, can someone get me out of this Porsche.

[Dverde]

The “one million dollar” Topps Chrome Wemby card was pulled by a card collector.

https://x.com/thehobby247/status/1829868019948143062?s=46

[DAF86]

Yeah, I’m thinking he needs to be more KD than KG.

He will never be KD. The chances of Wemby developing his shot to the elite levels of KD are slim to none.

Wemby's best version version of himself will always come as the most dominant finisher of all-time. With his length, his touch, his athleticism, his coordination and when he adds that little bit of adult strength he's lacking, he will be unguardable on the paint. Pick and rolls, dump off passes, offensive rebounding, deep entry passes. That's gonna be where he's at his most dominant. Then he can sprinkle all the other stuff here and there, but his bread and butter will be close to the basket.

[CGD]

The “one million dollar” Topps Chrome Wemby card was pulled by a card collector.

https://x.com/thehobby247/status/1829868019948143062?s=46

If someone is dumb enough to pay that, absolutely sell it today! That’s life changing money.

[exstatic]

He will never be KD. The chances of Wemby developing his shot to the elite levels of KD are slim to none.

Wemby's best version version of himself will always come as the most dominant finisher of all-time. With his length, his touch, his athleticism, his coordination and when he adds that little bit of adult strength he's lacking, he will be unguardable on the paint. Pick and rolls, dump off passes, offensive rebounding, deep entry passes. That's gonna be where he's at his most dominant. Then he can sprinkle all the other stuff here and there, but his bread and butter will be close to the basket.

He’ll never be the best player in the league depending others to feed him the ball for the bulk of his scoring. It’s also an easy way to stop him from scoring, denying the entry pass. Those days are far in the rear view mirror.

[Ice009]

The “one million dollar” Topps Chrome Wemby card was pulled by a card collector.

https://x.com/thehobby247/status/1829868019948143062?s=46

What is this number trying to say? 100,000 dollars? Not sure hwo you guys write it in the US, but I can't figure out if that is $1000.00 or $100,000 (100K) dollars.

[exstatic]

What is this number trying to say? 100,000 dollars? Not sure hwo you guys write it in the US, but I can't figure out if that is $1000.00 or $100,000 (100K) dollars.

$1M. The last zero was omitted.

[DAF86]

He’ll never be the best player in the league depending others to feed him the ball for the bulk of his scoring. It’s also an easy way to stop him from scoring, denying the entry pass. Those days are far in the rear view mirror.

Shaq was the most dominant player I have ever seen, depending on others feeding him the ball. Also, Wemby is clearly never going to depend on only that, he's much more. He's definitely not a Kevin Durant, though. Not even close.

[exstatic]

Shaq was the most dominant player I have ever seen, depending on others feeding him the ball. Also, Wemby is clearly never going to depend on only that, he's much more. He's definitely not a Kevin Durant, though. Not even close.

It’s not 1996 any more. The rules have changed. Post play and paint dominance almost don’t matter in the 3 point era. Wemby needs to play on the perimeter and initiate the offense.

[DAF86]

It’s not 1996 any more. The rules have changed. Post play and paint dominance almost don’t matter in the 3 point era. Wemby needs to play on the perimeter and initiate the offense.

Dude, you are in for a rude awakening if you trully expect Wemby to dominate with his jumpshot and dribling skills, tbh.

[rankingtear]

He will never be KD. The chances of Wemby developing his shot to the elite levels of KD are slim to none.

Wemby's best version version of himself will always come as the most dominant finisher of all-time. With his length, his touch, his athleticism, his coordination and when he adds that little bit of adult strength he's lacking, he will be unguardable on the paint. Pick and rolls, dump off passes, offensive rebounding, deep entry passes. That's gonna be where he's at his most dominant. Then he can sprinkle all the other stuff here and there, but his bread and butter will be close to the basket.

Depends on the matchup. If he is guarded by a big those perimeter iso, inverted PNR, curling off screens and DHO are more deadly. Bigs are fish out of water navigating screens.

[cutewizard]

The Path to Greatness begins for Wemby in year two,

lets see what happens

[cutewizard]

for the Spurs are the magnificent Spurssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMGI8tzPSQ0

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laCTbHYQ9PU

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOIr7DNX-ik

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aorauYCUYlY

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWZE890B4XI

[spurraider21]

I think cutewizard’s account needs to have a cap on how many videos they can embed per hour/day tbh

[Pauleta14]

No idea why after a full seson watching him some still want to put Wemby in a box tbh... :lol

Wy should he either be a post OR a perimeter guy? Why limit him??

He's versatile and good enough to take the role that is needed depending on the context, the matchups or which teammates he plays alongside, an elite PG like CP3 that can play the pick and roll or a more limited one that'll be more comfortable with a pick a pop tx to Vic's passing abilities (ie Tre this season)

Wemby is trully unique and doesn't have a comp in past players so let's stop that and enjoy the process, not putting him in a specific role is even more handicaping for our opponents.

[DAF86]

No idea why after a full seson watching him some still want to put Wemby in a box tbh... :lol

Wy should he either be a post OR a perimeter guy? Why limit him??

He's versatile and good enough to take the role that is needed depending on the context, the matchups or which teammates he plays alongside, an elite PG like CP3 that can play the pick and roll or a more limited one that'll be more comfortable with a pick a pop tx to Vic's passing abilities (ie Tre this season)

Wemby is trully unique and doesn't have a comp in past players so let's stop that and enjoy the process, not putting him in a specific role is even more handicaping for our opponents.

Nobody wants to put Wemby in a box, but every player has his strengths. The moves/plays they go to when you must have a bucket. Anyone expecting jumpshooting to be Wemby's main strength, clearly hasn't been paying enough attention.

[scott]

If someone is dumb enough to pay that, absolutely sell it today! That’s life changing money.

It's okay if you don't understand the collectables market, you can just say that.

This card will go for more than $1MM. That's just the bounty that one particular party had placed on it. When it goes to auction, it will clear that bar.

[Limguogolo]

Apocryphal quote:

"Victor, let's be serious, isn't it better for you to be the screener in a pick and roll?"

“Man, I only play rock and roll.”

[couchman]

Looks like a nice vacay for Wemby (https://www.instagram.com/p/C_jrD-zs92V/?igsh=MXU2aTNjNWIxNWJpcw==).

[Ice009]

Looks really nice. Where is that at? I think it's good to take it easy for a little bit after the season and Olympics. I was sort of hoping that he was resting/relaxing a bit. I used to love Kawhi working out all the time until seeing his body break/start breaking down, and then when that happened to Kawhi, I started looking further back to Kobe and figure he also broke down earlier than he should have due to probably working like a madman all the time. I used to think you have to go hard all the time if you want to be the best, but now, I think you have to balance it out as much as you can.

[daslicer]

Looks really nice. Where is that at? I think it's good to take it easy for a little bit after the season and Olympics. I was sort of hoping that he was resting/relaxing a bit. I used to love Kawhi working out all the time until seeing his body break/start breaking down, and then when that happened to Kawhi, I started looking further back to Kobe and figure he also broke down earlier than he should have due to probably working like a madman all the time. I used to think you have to go hard all the time if you want to be the best, but now, I think you have to balance it out as much as you can.

Michael Jordan's trainer Tim Grover who also trained Kobe Bryant had an interesting anecdote about the way Kobe trained. Grover said the difference between MJ and Kobe was that MJ would rest whenever Grover would tell him to rest so his body could regenerate from the intense training. Whenever Grover told Kobe to rest he wouldn't do it and would overtrain which would result in injuries.

[Ice009]

Michael Jordan's trainer Tim Grover who also trained Kobe Bryant had an interesting anecdote about the way Kobe trained. Grover said the difference between MJ and Kobe was that MJ would rest whenever Grover would tell him to rest so his body could regenerate from the intense training. Whenever Grover told Kobe to rest he wouldn't do it and would overtrain which would result in injuries.

Right. Very cool info that I didn't know. That is very interesting that Jordan followed his advice and Kobe didn't. Having said that, not sure if Jordan held up much better than Kobe while taking Tim Grover's advice on when to rest. I am pretty sure Kobe was the type of guy to push himself to the point of blacking out, then when he got to that point, push further. Even though I wasn't a fan due to being a Spurs fan and him being a rival, I always knew he was training his ass off. I guess that's why he was so mad with Shaq at the start of the 2003 season where Shaq took the whole off-season off and got surgery on his toe shortly before the season to rehab during the season (I think it was the 2003 season), and that really pissed Kobe off as he was probably training most days during the offseason while Shaq was taking it easy.

[ambchang]

Right. Very cool info that I didn't know. That is very interesting that Jordan followed his advice and Kobe didn't. Having said that, not sure if Jordan held up much better than Kobe while taking Tim Grover's advice on when to rest. I am pretty sure Kobe was the type of guy to push himself to the point of blacking out, then when he got to that point, push further. Even though I wasn't a fan due to being a Spurs fan and him being a rival, I always knew he was training his ass off. I guess that's why he was so mad with Shaq at the start of the 2003 season where Shaq took the whole off-season off and got surgery on his toe shortly before the season to rehab during the season (I think it was the 2003 season), and that really pissed Kobe off as he was probably training most days during the offseason while Shaq was taking it easy.

Kobe was injured whenever he has a bad game. And more injured when he has a bad series. He would miraculously heal the next time he has a good game though.

[heyheymymy]

As much as I hated Kobe damnit I had to admire his lethality and work ethic. Just too cool.

But one of my pet peeves was that built in injury excuse and every time he'd start getting close to one of those 7-24 nights something would "flare up" and it became the "heroics" of what he accomplished despite playing in pain.

[Ice009]

As much as I hated Kobe damnit I had to admire his lethality and work ethic. Just too cool.

But one of my pet peeves was that built in injury excuse and every time he'd start getting close to one of those 7-24 nights something would "flare up" and it became the "heroics" of what he accomplished despite playing in pain.

Yeah, I do remember what you and Ambchang are saying. I used to hate that too, but I still do believe that he did overwork and got injuries because of it. He very well may have played up injuries when he was having a bad game or bad shooting night, though, but that doesn't take away from how hard he worked. One other reason I know/believe he pushed himself to the limit and beyond is the way he was after he retired. It seemed like he was calm and relaxed and had no regrets when he retired. That made me think he laid it all out there and didn't leave anything on the table.

[heyheymymy]

Yeah agreed. I don't doubt it was from over training / inadequate recovery time. He was always staying after games and shooting till midnight 1 am during playoff series. Kobe was mental.

And with Kobe's playoff frequency the wear and tear starts to add up.

[Mr. Body]

I always had the impression Kobe had no internal life, he was hollow, and competed to fill up the void. He changed a bit after he retired. Jordan was just as hollow but made up for it with his gambling addictions.

[Atl Spur]

I always had the impression Kobe had no internal life, he was hollow, and competed to fill up the void. He changed a bit after he retired. Jordan was just as hollow but made up for it with his gambling addictions.

It’s very hard to have both wouldn’t you agree?

[polandprzem]

It's okay if you don't understand the collectables market, you can just say that.

This card will go for more than $1MM. That's just the bounty that one particular party had placed on it. When it goes to auction, it will clear that bar.

It depends on his career. Right now the price is on expectations. Some can bank on it but you never know if in 20 years this card will equal the value of 1Mil now.

[scott]

It depends on his career. Right now the price is on expectations. Some can bank on it but you never know if in 20 years this card will equal the value of 1Mil now.

No one can predict anything about cards in 20 years. But it will be worth over $1MM today.

[polandprzem]

No one can predict anything about cards in 20 years. But it will be worth over $1MM today.

Yea I was trying to be in that lottery but for the cards I have I can get few K's

[spurraider21]

he needs that post game tbh

1833994929485295938

[exstatic]

he needs that post game tbh

1833994929485295938

No, he just needs to stop shooting middies, which he kind of did after the ASG.

Purtting Victor in the post would be like making Ant a catch and shoot player.

[spurraider21]

No, he just needs to stop shooting middies, which he kind of did after the ASG.

Purtting Victor in the post would be like making Ant a catch and shoot player.
i didnt say he should exclusively play in the post. i said he needs a post game. Dirk had an excellent post game even though he was a phenomenal outside shooter

[exstatic]

i didnt say he should exclusively play in the post. i said he needs a post game. Dirk had an excellent post game even though he was a phenomenal outside shooter

The thing is,posting up would probably be lower efficiency than his one dribble two stride dunks from the three point line. Dunks are like 95% effective, far more than a turnaround jumper or a hook shot. He just needs space to operate. Dirk did what he did because he was less physically gifted than Wemby. He didn’t have the two stride dunk from the three point line in his bag. There’s no reason for Wemby to limit himself to stuff that less physically gifted players did 25 years ago.

[spurraider21]

The thing is,posting up would probably be lower efficiency than his one dribble two stride dunks from the three point line. Dunks are like 95% effective, far more than a turnaround jumper or a hook shot. He just needs space to operate. Dirk did what he did because he was less physically gifted than Wemby. He didn’t have the two stride dunk from the three point line in his bag. There’s no reason for Wemby to limit himself to stuff that less physically gifted players did 25 years ago.
i agree that if wemby can do a one dribble dunk on every possession that he should just do that

[exstatic]

i agree that if wemby can do a one dribble dunk on every possession that he should just do that

He should do it as often as possible. He’s most dangerous when he’s outside the three point line, facing up. Pick and rolls and inverted pick and rolls with him as the ball handler are also good.

[ismael-robert]

The wemby sushi roll is also amazing. Have u tried wemby tp roll at walmart, super soft. Dunkin had the wemby jelly roll, it was less successful

[spurraider21]

He should do it as often as possible. He’s most dangerous when he’s outside the three point line, facing up. Pick and rolls and inverted pick and rolls with him as the ball handler are also good.
he will inevitably have possessions where he touches the ball around 10-15 feet away from the rim, and i for one think it will be good if he finds effective ways to score from such positions

[exstatic]

he will inevitably have possessions where he touches the ball around 10-15 feet away from the rim, and i for one think it will be good if he finds effective ways to score from such positions

See the spin play against Aaron Gordon in that 17 point barrage in 3 minutes, or any of his Shamgods.

[spurraider21]

See the spin play against Aaron Gordon in that 17 point barrage in 3 minutes, or any of his Shamgods.
highlights are awesome. but you can track his season long efficiency and it aint it

he was subpar at every shot distance outside of 3 feet

[exstatic]

highlights are awesome. but you can track his season long efficiency and it aint it

he was subpar at every shot distance outside of 3 feet

Those plays I mentioned weren’t shots, and in fact, I don’t wanting him shooting middies, and mentioned it earlier in the thread.

[Limguogolo]

Probably all these mid-range shots are these terrible shots taken off balance.

I have nothing against a Dirk move on one foot and in fade away, but Dirk controlled his movement by strictly always doing the same thing. You have to let Victor improvise, but there is improvising and having no control over your actions and body. Creativity must be found in the diversity of attacks, in drives, in attacking zones, not in the way of shooting. He is big, as soon as he raises his arms, there is little chance of being challenged. He must therefore learn not to rush and in certain areas, if he cannot drive, learn to control a gesture that he has in his repertoire without attempting fancy gestures in which his body naturally disposed to lack balance with a High center of gravity will inevitably end up off balance. Durant also had low percentages during his rookie years, this will be an important area of ​​progression for Victor. It's good to be big, but you shouldn't let the advantage turn into a problem. Dirk and Durant are models of control. Generally speaking, I would tend to think that anything that happens below the shoulder can benefit from a high level of improvisation and that anything that happens above the shoulder should no longer be fancy and be subject to the slightest improvisation.

It's up to Victor to ask himself if he wants to continue being just a high light machine or if he wants to become a champion of skill, or a knife shooter who doesn't disembowel his wife with every throw. A spot killer or a spotlight killer.

But he already knows all that.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

It doesn't really matter where he plays from, his efficiency is going to go up across the board as he gets stronger, more experienced, and has better teammates around him setting him up for better looks.

I'm not sure why anyone would try to pigeonhole him. He's a walking mismatch. Put a big on him, and let Vic take him out the 3 point line and make him move his feet or concede the three. Put a smaller guy on him, let Vic take him down to the block and score over him. I think the next step in the evolution is to solve how Houston defends him -- getting bodied by a smaller, but stronger guy in Dillon Brooks.

I'm not nearly as concerned about the efficiency as I am the turnovers. He was 3rd in the league in total TO's despite playing anywhere from 500 to 800 fewer minutes than anyone else in the top 9. He was second in TO/game (3.7) to Doncic (4.0), who played 8 more minutes per game. The live ball turnovers are killers.

[Spurs Brazil]

https://x.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1835077032633597976

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7IJa2J2WyU

[cutewizard]

Wemby rules.........................

[couchman]

I'm not nearly as concerned about the efficiency as I am the turnovers. He was 3rd in the league in total TO's despite playing anywhere from 500 to 800 fewer minutes than anyone else in the top 9. He was second in TO/game (3.7) to Doncic (4.0), who played 8 more minutes per game. The live ball turnovers are killers.

THIS would actually impact winning more this season than whatever marginal improvements in shooting efficiency.
I’m not worried about the efficiency, it will come.
At some point though he’ll have to start valuing the ball a lot more.
There’s a fine line between letting Wemby do whatever to avoid restricting his ceiling vs learning bad habits with ball security.

[Pauleta14]

https://youtu.be/-YHormW8AHA?si=dez_DoA6QSomnqAk

The voices they gave Vic and Pop ... :lmao

[NASpurs]

https://youtu.be/-YHormW8AHA?si=dez_DoA6QSomnqAk

The voices they gave Vic and Pop ... :lmao

That's actually pretty funny :lol

Luka transforming and saying "water weight" was pretty good

[Limguogolo]

Sacré bleu, that's nice. (But "sacré bleu" is not a French expression.)

[RC_Drunkford]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U4fDhRyIzw

[KingKev]

He is a really bad 3 point shooter. How you say that in french?

[Mr. Body]

Vic was fucking awful, embarrassing. I'm glad he took a break but hopefully this ain't the full season from him.

[Pauleta14]

He doesn't look good at all, he already didn't in pre season.

He's soft at every contact, can't catch properly easy balls, passes on post up plays...

Let's hope it's just rust but it looks more than that tbh

[Monostradamus]

He really got bullied all night by guys a foot shorter than him :lmao

Hit those weights, buddy!

[cutewizard]

Does he have an injury of some kind?

[Chinook]

I'm not worried about his shooting or rustiness. I'm much more worried about his main-character bullshit where he keeps breaking plays trying to get touches. Gaining muscle is nice, but what I wanted to see Victor come into the season with was a better understanding of how to move as a center in the NBA and some reliable moves to score inside the arc. The problem last year was NOT that no one on the Spurs was smart enough to throw Victor a pass. A lot of fans clung to that idea because they didn't want to look at Wemby critically. Yes, the players weren't very good, but far less talented bigs could've had success on last year's teams provided they understood how to play the position. The teammates were capping his ceiling but not really lowering his floor.

This is still a young year obviously, and there's plenty of time to see progress, but Victor has far better teammates this year than he did last year just by virtue of guys like Jones and Johnson being back-ups rather than starters, removing Branham and Wesley from the rotation. His inability to get quality touches tonight is not on them, even though I've seen some folks try to push blame on the other guys. I don't care if fans accept that or keep going on believing Wemby is never in the wrong. It concerns me to think Victor believes something like that and uses that believe to focus on the wrong things in his progression. He's not going to be a superstar center until he learns how to be an adequate center, and that includes turning down his impulse to be the main character on offense. The point of a Paul is to set Wemby up, not to throw Wemby the ball whenever he throws his hand up. He needs to focus on doing the things the offense needs him to do so it can flow and get him touches. That means setting and holding better screens, taking fewer impulse shots and being in spots that space the floor for his teammates.

Opponents are going to come into this year with actual plans to check Victor, and he's going to need to have better answers than he did last year. He got by mostly off the sheer absurdity of his physical makeup last year, but that shock value is not going to be there this time around. He badly needs to have some spots on the floor where he feels comfortable getting the ball and go-to moves to use when he gets those chances. That he isn't living off taking 8- to 12-footers off the catch boggles my mind, because those shots are basically unguardable and are very hard for the defense to prevent Wemby from getting if there's any pressure being put on them by the other four guys. Shoot those until the defenders start flailing about trying to contest them. Then just step through and lay it in. Just simple, bread and butter actions, but they aren't going to come from iso's and post-ups. They require coordinated movement, which means less freelancing.

[emmo]

Dude has a religious sleep routine. Maybe the fire alarm in the middle of the night threw him off. He looked tired/sick.

[TDomination]

I'm not worried about his shooting or rustiness. I'm much more worried about his main-character bullshit where he keeps breaking plays trying to get touches. Gaining muscle is nice, but what I wanted to see Victor come into the season with was a better understanding of how to move as a center in the NBA and some reliable moves to score inside the arc. The problem last year was NOT that no one on the Spurs was smart enough to throw Victor a pass. A lot of fans clung to that idea because they didn't want to look at Wemby critically. Yes, the players weren't very good, but far less talented bigs could've had success on last year's teams provided they understood how to play the position. The teammates were capping his ceiling but not really lowering his floor.

This is still a young year obviously, and there's plenty of time to see progress, but Victor has far better teammates this year than he did last year just by virtue of guys like Jones and Johnson being back-ups rather than starters, removing Branham and Wesley from the rotation. His inability to get quality touches tonight is not on them, even though I've seen some folks try to push blame on the other guys. I don't care if fans accept that or keep going on believing Wemby is never in the wrong. It concerns me to think Victor believes something like that and uses that believe to focus on the wrong things in his progression. He's not going to be a superstar center until he learns how to be an adequate center, and that includes turning down his impulse to be the main character on offense. The point of a Paul is to set Wemby up, not to throw Wemby the ball whenever he throws his hand up. He needs to focus on doing the things the offense needs him to do so it can flow and get him touches. That means setting and holding better screens, taking fewer impulse shots and being in spots that space the floor for his teammates.

Opponents are going to come into this year with actual plans to check Victor, and he's going to need to have better answers than he did last year. He got by mostly off the sheer absurdity of his physical makeup last year, but that shock value is not going to be there this time around. He badly needs to have some spots on the floor where he feels comfortable getting the ball and go-to moves to use when he gets those chances. That he isn't living off taking 8- to 12-footers off the catch boggles my mind, because those shots are basically unguardable and are very hard for the defense to prevent Wemby from getting if there's any pressure being put on them by the other four guys. Shoot those until the defenders start flailing about trying to contest them. Then just step through and lay it in. Just simple, bread and butter actions, but they aren't going to come from iso's and post-ups. They require coordinated movement, which means less freelancing.
Well said
agreed

more fundamentals please.
i got concerned that he had trouble getting into a good post position, he kept getting pushed out of the paint. If he can’t muscle his way, than he needs to keep moving until he gets in better position.

and yeah just play through the flow of the offense, he’ll get his. And less 3s please

[DAF86]

Somebody needs to make him understand that he isn't Durant and he will never be Durant. He can be way better, but for that to happen, he needs to understand that his greatest strength it's his size. Stop bullshitting around, get your ass inside and play smart, professional, grown ass basketball.

[onechance87]

Wemby gotta be more disciplined.He played wild and dumb today.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Somebody needs to make him understand that he isn't Durant and he will never be Durant. He can be way better, but for that to happen, he needs to understand that his greatest strength it's his size. Stop bullshitting around, get your ass inside and play smart, professional, grown ass basketball.

https://media.tenor.com/wrnf-I3A184AAAAM/word-word-snoop-dogg.gif

He was training with J-Crossover this offseason when he should have been training with Tim and KG.

He would be a ridiculous player just on account of adding a hook shot.

[spursparker9]

Wemby need to stop shooting 3s tbh.

[skin27]

Somebody needs to make him understand that he isn't Durant and he will never be Durant. He can be way better, but for that to happen, he needs to understand that his greatest strength it's his size. Stop bullshitting around, get your ass inside and play smart, professional, grown ass basketball.


i agree with this. But im starting to think that wemby’s game is not an inside game or post game like duncan,shaq or Kg.

[tim_duncan_fan]

i agree with this. But im starting to think that wemby’s game is not an inside game or post game like duncan,shaq or Kg.

You're saying 7'3 mid-range king?

[Gibbz]

Saying your 20-YO phenom should not shoot threes in 2024 NBA after the results of one game @ the WC champs. Never change, ST.

[Gibbz]

https://media.tenor.com/wrnf-I3A184AAAAM/word-word-snoop-dogg.gif

He was training with J-Crossover this offseason when he should have been training with Tim and KG.

He would be a ridiculous player just on account of adding a hook shot.

Yeah, I'm sure he hasn't done any work with Duncan. :sleep

[Ditty]

His free throw shooting looks better at least.

His shot looks good but it's not going in.

He had a bad game. He will figure this shit out.

[tim_duncan_fan]

I gotta be honest, even if he was like KD or even LaMarcus Aldridge, 7ft jumpshooter is not my favorite thing to watch.

Did not enjoy LMA's lack of a real postgame.

[spursparker9]

Wemby's biggest rival Chet has monster game against 3x MVP Joker

25 pts 14 rebs 5 asts 4 blks

[Ice009]

He doesn't look good at all, he already didn't in pre season.

He's soft at every contact, can't catch properly easy balls, passes on post up plays...

Let's hope it's just rust but it looks more than that tbh

If he's only aiming for 1-5% increase in muscle weight every season, well he'd always better aim for 5% minimum, otherwise, that 1% ain't going to help him do shit. It's not like he's physically superior to everyone else to only need 1% increase in muscle weight. He's not a good enough shooter (hopefully I am way wrong and he shoots a lot better the rest of the season) to rely on scoring with jump shots. In my opinion, he's not much of a lob threat because he's too weak out there. Numerous times in the game, when he had the ball underneath, he was extremely weak with it.

[RC_Drunkford]

I gotta be honest, even if he was like KD or even LaMarcus Aldridge, 7ft jumpshooter is not my favorite thing to watch.

Did not enjoy LMA's lack of a real postgame.


LMA was one of the best post up players in the league. Wemby is more like Gobert, where he has 0 post moves and doesn't know what to do once he's iso'd on the left block. If he had LMA's post up bag he'd be unstoppable.

[Ice009]

LMA was one of the best post up players in the league. Wemby is more like Gobert, where he has 0 post moves and doesn't know what to do once he's iso'd on the left block. If he had LMA's post up bag he'd be unstoppable.

Didn't LaMarcus want to work with Victor as far back as last season? Seems the Spurs aren't interested.

I remember even Jokic said he's taken from LMA's game and he's learned things by playing against him and watching him. LaMarcus does have some things in his game that talented young big men can take from him. He has weaknesses too, but his strengths are skills players can add to their games.

[RC_Drunkford]

Didn't LaMarcus want to work with Victor as far back as last season? Seems the Spurs aren't interested.

I remember even Jokic said he's taken from LMA's game and he's learned things by playing against him and watching him. LaMarcus does have some things in his game that talented young big men can take from him. He has weaknesses too, but his strengths are skills players can add to their games.

LMA worked out with Wemby. It was being reported pregame in the last 3rd of the season last year, just can't remember which game. They should work out together more.

[TrainOfThought5]

Wemby's biggest rival Chet has monster game against 3x MVP Joker

25 pts 14 rebs 5 asts 4 blks


Wemby: Rookie of the year. future DPOY. All Star.

Chet: 0

[Ice009]

LMA worked out with Wemby. It was being reported pregame in the last 3rd of the season last year, just can't remember which game. They should work out together more.

Well that's good. When I heard Jokic mention Aldridge as a guy he's learned from, that made me wonder if Victor has worked with LMA. Jokic really seems to respect LMA's game.

[LeBowen]

Well that's good. When I heard Jokic mention Aldridge as a guy he's learned from, that made me wonder if Victor has worked with LMA. Jokic really seems to respect LMA's game.

LMA always talked about how his biggest strength was that he never over-complicated things.
Either a turnaround to the middle, a fadeaway or a kickout if doubled.

Even if Wemby gets the ball in similar positions, he's got no strength for that turn right now and his fadeaway is inconsistent.
For me the biggest issue with Wemby is his carelessness with the ball. Obviously everyone has some bad decisions and unnecessary turnovers, but at times it looks like Wemby is intentionally trying to do the most complicated thing.

[Ice009]

LMA always talked about how his biggest strength was that he never over-complicated things.
Either a turnaround to the middle, a fadeaway or a kickout if doubled.

Even if Wemby gets the ball in similar positions, he's got no strength for that turn right now and his fadeaway is inconsistent.
For me the biggest issue with Wemby is his carelessness with the ball. Obviously everyone has some bad decisions and unnecessary turnovers, but at times it looks like Wemby is intentionally trying to do the most complicated thing.

Yeah, very true. Victor is too careless with the ball and he doesn't have the strength to do some on LMA's moves. Jokic has the size to emulate his turn around and also has the fadeaway in his bag. Man, I did not like what I saw this first game.

[Pauleta14]

If he's only aiming for 1-5% increase in muscle weight every season, well he'd always better aim for 5% minimum, otherwise, that 1% ain't going to help him do shit. It's not like he's physically superior to everyone else to only need 1% increase in muscle weight. He's not a good enough shooter (hopefully I am way wrong and he shoots a lot better the rest of the season) to rely on scoring with jump shots. In my opinion, he's not much of a lob threat because he's too weak out there. Numerous times in the game, when he had the ball underneath, he was extremely weak with it.

I don't think it's a strength issue at all.

It's 100% mental, Vic still refuses or tries to avoid part of his job and it trully mind boggling knowing how mature and smart he is (supposedly)

He can't keep acting like a guard when he's our only big on the floor

He can't keep refusing every post-up situations

This summer with the NT he clearly expressed what he has to do (just catch in the paint and attack the rim STRAIGHT), but he keeps hesitating, taking time, dribbling etc making opp defense's job easy bc he doesn't have the butt or strength to take his time, he'll get bullied all the time even by guards.

He and the team obviously will be better with their legs (thx Pop) but this season is going to be a huge struggle for Wemby, every teams are preparing for him better than last season and PATFO didn't bring anyone capable of taking some pressure off of him.

[Pauleta14]

Dude has a religious sleep routine. Maybe the fire alarm in the middle of the night threw him off. He looked tired/sick.

2 things about it...

1 - The fire alarm DID woke him up and messed up his sleep, he admited it to the french journalists.

2 - WHY THE FUCK would you say it publically?? Why is he so transparent with the medias? Vic needs to grow up, there's still a naive child in him

[ambchang]

Wemby does have a tendency of making highlight plays rather than the simple plays. Gotta get in IG.

[widowmaker]

In my opinion he looked uninterested out there last night. Something isn’t boding well with him.

[Brazil]

He is a really bad 3 point shooter. How you say that in french?

Il pue du cul

[exstatic]

Well said
agreed

more fundamentals please.
i got concerned that he had trouble getting into a good post position, he kept getting pushed out of the paint. If he can’t muscle his way, than he needs to keep moving until he gets in better position.

and yeah just play through the flow of the offense, he’ll get his. And less 3s please

Posting up as anything pther than a change of pace is a waste of time. It gives the opposition time to set 2 or 3 guys between him and the hoop. Motion without the ball, and a heavy dose of PnR basketball is the key. You have to move the defense around, not let them get set.

[Atl Spur]

#5 and #1 p/r surrounded by #24, #10, and #40 works for me.

[tim_duncan_fan]

LMA was one of the best post up players in the league. Wemby is more like Gobert, where he has 0 post moves and doesn't know what to do once he's iso'd on the left block. If he had LMA's post up bag he'd be unstoppable.

Maybe I'm thinking too much about LMA's final years, but he's pegged in my mind as a guy with a turn-around jumper in the post, but that's it.

[KingKev]

Maybe I'm thinking too much about LMA's final years, but he's pegged in my mind as a guy with a turn-around jumper in the post, but that's it.

When LMA wanted to be mean he literally bullied the best bigs down low.

[Bruno]

There is a certain logic into what Spurs are doing with Wembnayama.
Spurs are taking their time in building a roster around him and they are also taking their time with his development. There are no need to speed up his development if the team around him doesn't follow that.

Wembanyama could be better right now if he cut some aspect of his game and focus on some simple and effective moves. He doesn't want to do that, and, AFAIK, Spurs don't want him to that. The goal isn't to be good right now, it's to be great in 2/3 years. Batum said it well recently in a french interview: "He knows who he is and he knows who he should become"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORpak9ws2A0&t=1920s

[3&D_TBH]

Saying your 20-YO phenom should not shoot threes in 2024 NBA after the results of one game @ the WC champs. Never change, ST.

This. I wanna see dominance too, but patience is necessary. We have to stfu and wait—unfortunately.

[Pauleta14]

There is a certain logic into what Spurs are doing with Wembnayama.
Spurs are taking their time in building a roster around him and they are also taking their time with his development. There are no need to speed up his development if the team around him doesn't follow that.

Wembanyama could be better right now if he cut some aspect of his game and focus on some simple and effective moves. He doesn't want to do that, and, AFAIK, Spurs don't want him to that. The goal isn't to be good right now, it's to be great in 2/3 years. Batum said it well recently in a french interview: "He knows who he is and he knows who he should become"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORpak9ws2A0&t=1920s

Sure, we all agree on the big picture.

But aren't you surprised to see Wemby wandering around not knowing what he has to do after setting up picks like last season?

Aren't u surprised not to have seen any pick and roll plays when that's what eveybody was expecting to see with a specialist as a PG?

It's year 2, teams will be a lot more prepared for him and Spurs still don't have anyone who demands opp teams respect or a roster that can open up the space for him. It can get ugly

[Bruno]

Sure, we all agree on the big picture.

But aren't you surprised to see Wemby wandering around not knowing what he has to do after setting up picks like last season?

Aren't u surprised not to have seen any pick and roll plays when that's what eveybody was expecting to see with a specialist as a PG?

It's year 2, teams will be a lot more prepared for him and Spurs still don't have anyone who demands opp teams respect or a roster that can open up the space for him. It can get ugly

Yeah, I'm surprised but it's just one game. He had a poor play/shot selection against Mavs.

My point is that, even if, for example, his P&R with Paul turns out as a deadly weapon, he won't limit himself to that. He wants to be a complete player because it's the path to end up as the GOAT.

[Chinook]

There is a certain logic into what Spurs are doing with Wembnayama.
Spurs are taking their time in building a roster around him and they are also taking their time with his development. There are no need to speed up his development if the team around him doesn't follow that.

Wembanyama could be better right now if he cut some aspect of his game and focus on some simple and effective moves. He doesn't want to do that, and, AFAIK, Spurs don't want him to that. The goal isn't to be good right now, it's to be great in 2/3 years. Batum said it well recently in a french interview: "He knows who he is and he knows who he should become"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORpak9ws2A0&t=1920s

I bristle at the suggestion that it should be Victor's choice whether he plays winning ball or not. Nothing about Wemby playing within an offense precludes him continuing to explore his game. The problem isn't really that he takes threes or tries to iso. It's that that's basically ALL he's doing, and he struggles to do his part for other players. He still seems to look at things like screens primarily as a means to get himself open rather than part of a series of actions to get good looks for everyone. Guys like Paul and Barnes WANT to get Victor the ball. They don't want to call their own numbers. But he's not doing his part, and that's a problem. If the staff isn't coaching him to limit that, it's a disservice. If he's resisting because he feels entitled to be paid millions of dollars to treat this season as an expo for his performance art, that's a huge problem. I'd never want to hear about how much he wants to win again if he values his freedom from coaching more than his actual impact on winning.

[spurraider21]

Yeah, I'm surprised but it's just one game. He had a poor play/shot selection against Mavs.

My point is that, even if, for example, his P&R with Paul turns out as a deadly weapon, he won't limit himself to that. He wants to be a complete player because it's the path to end up as the GOAT.
the path to end up as the GOAT is different for different players with different tools and skillsets. for guards/forwards like jordan, magic, lebron, bird, their path to GOAThood talks was their versatility and being complete players. scoring, defense, playmaking, shooting, etc.

for bigs in the GOAT convo, its usually more straightforward. obviously the days of wilt/russell arent applicable, but hakeem, shaq, duncan all knew what their bread and butter was and did it to perfection.

[quentin_compson]

Yeah, I really don't see any benefit in Wemby continuing to develop bad habits in his game. I really hope this season will see him and the coaching staff focusing on him improving on his shot selection.

[Bruno]

I bristle at the suggestion that it should be Victor's choice whether he plays winning ball or not. Nothing about Wemby playing within an offense precludes him continuing to explore his game. The problem isn't really that he takes threes or tries to iso. It's that that's basically ALL he's doing, and he struggles to do his part for other players. He still seems to look at things like screens primarily as a means to get himself open rather than part of a series of actions to get good looks for everyone. Guys like Paul and Barnes WANT to get Victor the ball. They don't want to call their own numbers. But he's not doing his part, and that's a problem. If the staff isn't coaching him to limit that, it's a disservice. If he's resisting because he feels entitled to be paid millions of dollars to treat this season as an expo for his performance art, that's a huge problem. I'd never want to hear about how much he wants to win again if he values his freedom from coaching more than his actual impact on winning.

Well, it was just one game. If in 10 games, he is still playing like that, it will too go after him for playing like that.

There is a middle ground to find for Wembanyama and the coaching staff between trying new things and sticking to what is the most efficient. He also needs to do that within the team offense.To me they find that right balance during the second half of his rookie season. It obviously wasn't the case against Mavs.

I disagree with you on the part about winning. At the end, what Wembanyama and Spurs want to win isn't games, it's the NBA title. Breaking news: it won't be this year. It's fine that some players try difficult things to grow as players and be better in a few years when Spurs will try to win it all.

[scott]

It looks like there is zero effort to coach of develop Wemby. So either that's not happening, or Wemby is just going off script and doing what he wants. Either way, it's a problem.

[RC_Drunkford]

Maybe I'm thinking too much about LMA's final years, but he's pegged in my mind as a guy with a turn-around jumper in the post, but that's it.

nope. Turnaround fadeaway was his go-to, then there were pick and pops, face ups, hook shots and step throughs. Wemby has to develop a face up game in the post a la Kevin Garnett. The problem is he's not really that good from midrange.

it looks to me like the plan this year is to let Wemby go to work on the left block in the post and for him to figure out how to score there. This will take a while, because as of right now he really has no moves there.

[Pauleta14]

Yeah, I'm surprised but it's just one game. He had a poor play/shot selection against Mavs.

My point is that, even if, for example, his P&R with Paul turns out as a deadly weapon, he won't limit himself to that. He wants to be a complete player because it's the path to end up as the GOAT.

Sure, I respect that and even excited by that perspective but as of now he has none he can rely on.

Anyways, 1st game as u say, let's wait and see

[Chinook]

Well, it was just one game. If in 10 games, he is still playing like that, it will too go after him for playing like that.

It was "just one game" if we ignore the pre-season too. Again, my issue isn't really based on the amount of shots he made or anything like that. I'm more than willing to chuck that up to rustiness. It's about what seems to be his attitude on the court over the last game and the pre-season games. You don't turn into a largely self-centered guy because you're out of practice. Could his attitude have been a response to his rustiness (like he wasn't hitting shots so he started forcing them)? Maybe. But he came into the game doing that, so it certainly wasn't the sole cause.


There is a middle ground to find for Wembanyama and the coaching staff between trying new things and sticking to what is the most efficient. He also needs to do that within the team offense.To me they find that right balance during the second half of his rookie season. It obviously wasn't the case against Mavs.

I don't disagree with this in premise, but the "balance" isn't static -- the ratio that made sense last year won't be the same as what makes sense this year. He should have more things he's good at by this point. You brought up the hypothetical about him being a deadly PnR partner with Paul. But he's not like that, with Paul or anyone. There's a difference between a guy like Reed Sheppard saying he doesn't just want to be a shooter and a guy like Amen Thompson saying that. You can get the fundamentals then choose to not use them all the time. You can't not learn them then choose to start doing them. Wemby playing within the team concept isn't some sacrifice he's making for the team's benefit. It's essential to his individual development to be able to play his position at an NBA level. His shot quality also goes down when he freelances. With nothing solid to fall back on, his experimentation doesn't really have anything to measure it against.


I disagree with you on the part about winning. At the end, what Wembanyama and Spurs want to win isn't games, it's the NBA title. Breaking news: it won't be this year. It's fine that some players try difficult things to grow as players and be better in a few years when Spurs will try to win it all.

Nobody cares that Victor wants to win a title. EVERY player wants to win that. He's not special in that regard at all. But when he's sitting there pouting in press conferences because his team is on a losing streak, it undercuts the idea that he's willing to sacrifice short-term wins in pursuit of a title. This is accepting the assumption that that relationship is sound and that the Victor playing winning ball now impedes future success. That's not really true -- while not incredibly linear, player development isn't so stochastic as to be a mess that all of the sudden comes together. Players can and do build their games up in noticeable benchmarks. Wemby's not going to spend years floating around on the perimeter and then just suddenly understand the nuances to screening, moving and timing. Believing that is just insulting to players who perfected those elements over long successful careers. He needs to practice those things to do them well, and right now there's not a ton of evidence that he's doing it.

But even accepting that assumption -- I don't think Victor is as comfortable losing as you suggest he is. I think he wants his team to win every game. When he does his "call for the ball when he's not open" shtick, it's because he believes that's best for the team. I hope that's just because he's young, eager and confident rather than him internalizing the assumption that his teammates have been letting him down and they can't win without him controlling everything. Whether being a center is his main future or just a hat he needs to wear from time to time, he'll need to understand that the position requires that he read and react rather than try to initiate touches. If he wants to compartmentalize it to where he's Durant sometimes and Chandler other times, that's whatever. What matters is that when he's in Chandler mode that he needs to embody that role because the offense can't work if he doesn't.

"He knows who he is and he knows who he should become" isn't profound if "who he is" is "the main character on the court" and "who he should become" is "best player in NBA history". Maybe the 20-year-old doesn't have some psychic understanding of how he's going to develop and what the pathway will look like. I feel like most of us didn't know at 20 what we'd become. I'm perfectly willing to wait to see what happens. But yes, I'm feeling a bit apprehensive that his conviction on how he needs to play could end up hindering his growth more than he believes it will.

[TheBallsbreakers]

That's a whole lot of assumptions there, bud, from ONE game.
Wemby was pretty active on hand-offs all night.

[TheBallsbreakers]

It was "just one game" if we ignore the pre-season too. Again, my issue isn't really based on the amount of shots he made or anything like that. I'm more than willing to chuck that up to rustiness. It's about what seems to be his attitude on the court over the last game and the pre-season games. You don't turn into a largely self-centered guy because you're out of practice. Could his attitude have been a response to his rustiness (like he wasn't hitting shots so he started forcing them)? Maybe. But he came into the game doing that, so it certainly wasn't the sole cause.



I don't disagree with this in premise, but the "balance" isn't static -- the ratio that made sense last year won't be the same as what makes sense this year. He should have more things he's good at by this point. You brought up the hypothetical about him being a deadly PnR partner with Paul. But he's not like that, with Paul or anyone. There's a difference between a guy like Reed Sheppard saying he doesn't just want to be a shooter and a guy like Amen Thompson saying that. You can get the fundamentals then choose to not use them all the time. You can't not learn them then choose to start doing them. Wemby playing within the team concept isn't some sacrifice he's making for the team's benefit. It's essential to his individual development to be able to play his position at an NBA level. His shot quality also goes down when he freelances. With nothing solid to fall back on, his experimentation doesn't really have anything to measure it against.



Nobody cares that Victor wants to win a title. EVERY player wants to win that. He's not special in that regard at all. But when he's sitting there pouting in press conferences because his team is on a losing streak, it undercuts the idea that he's willing to sacrifice short-term wins in pursuit of a title. This is accepting the assumption that that relationship is sound and that the Victor playing winning ball now impedes future success. That's not really true -- while not incredibly linear, player development isn't so stochastic as to be a mess that all of the sudden comes together. Players can and do build their games up in noticeable benchmarks. Wemby's not going to spend years floating around on the perimeter and then just suddenly understand the nuances to screening, moving and timing. Believing that is just insulting to players who perfected those elements over long successful careers. He needs to practice those things to do them well, and right now there's not a ton of evidence that he's doing it.

But even accepting that assumption -- I don't think Victor is as comfortable losing as you suggest he is. I think he wants his team to win every game. When he does his "call for the ball when he's not open" shtick, it's because he believes that's best for the team. I hope that's just because he's young, eager and confident rather than him internalizing the assumption that his teammates have been letting him down and they can't win without him controlling everything. Whether being a center is his main future or just a hat he needs to wear from time to time, he'll need to understand that the position requires that he read and react rather than try to initiate touches. If he wants to compartmentalize it to where he's Durant sometimes and Chandler other times, that's whatever. What matters is that when he's in Chandler mode that he needs to embody that role because the offense can't work if he doesn't.

"He knows who he is and he knows who he should become" isn't profound if "who he is" is "the main character on the court" and "who he should become" is "best player in NBA history". Maybe the 20-year-old doesn't have some psychic understanding of how he's going to develop and what the pathway will look like. I feel like most of us didn't know at 20 what we'd become. I'm perfectly willing to wait to see what happens. But yes, I'm feeling a bit apprehensive that his conviction on how he needs to play could end up hindering his growth more than he believes it will.


I envy your seeming certitude on how a kid you only see through a TV screen thinks. Even going by his actions on and off the court, that's still quite the jump to make when you admittedly base it off of a couple of preseason games AND 1 regular season game.

You're essentially inferring in a roundabout way that the kid is becoming egotistical at the expense of the team.

Bravo.

[Bruno]

^^ First, I'm going to translate what Batum said about Wembanayama because I find it interesting:

You spend your first summer with Wembanayama with FNT. What do you think about him? Everybody is amazed by what he is doing but he still has a long way to goo...
That's the scary part. He still has a long way to go but he is already playing at a high level. This what he said after the final "'I'm just at 15%" and what is crazy is that I truly believe that he is only at 15%. I've seen things from him during practices, behind closed doors and without cameras.. You said to yourself that if he develop that and do it during games, it's going to be huge. He's doing things that makes no sense.
In addition to his talent, there is his mentality. What impresses me about this kid is that he knows who he is and who he should become. It's hard to know that but he knows. It could seem to be arrogant, especially in France, but he has so much trust about who he should become and he is doing everything to become that.
I've been very happy to have been able to share a part of his career and to have earn a medal with him. My son is a fan of him like every other kids. He is going to make dream kids for the next 15, 20 years and I'm happy to have played a little with him at the start of that.

----------------------------------------------------

My view on a player development is that there are basically two path:
The first one is working on everything at the same time.
The second one is to focus on a few basic parts of the game and when they are mastered, expand his game.

Each way had edges and drawbacks. The first one will allow the player to reach his ceiling the fastest. The second one is safer and makes him a more efficient/better player short term wise.
As always, it isn't one or the other but it's a mix of both. With Wembanyama, Spurs seem to heavily favorize the first path for his development. A big reason of that is that how Wembanayama wants to develop, keeping his versatility is important to him. Spurs also can deal with Wembanyama being quite inefficient right now because the team around him isn't ready.

But yeah, Wembanyama definitively needs to be better at setting screens. Even if he won't make as many as a traditional center, they must be well made.

[DAF86]

Couldn't watch the game. Did he get hurt? Wht did he only play 30 minutes on a 3pts game?

[cutewizard]

He played well today

[james evans]

I truly don't understand +/- calculations. Last night Wemby was 0 and Collins was a +3.

[Pauleta14]

I truly don't understand +/- calculations. Last night Wemby was 0 and Collins was a +3.

It's the most complex, most overated and most misunderstood stat in NBA.

It should be taken away imo, but it's such an efficient clickbait/debate generator...

[Chinook]

I truly don't understand +/- calculations. Last night Wemby was 0 and Collins was a +3.

That makes sense given that they won by three and the two split 48 minutes. What's there to not get?

[Pauleta14]

The point is that Collins didn't have a better game than Wemby.

[SayTown]

It means Wemby and the Spurs starters were a wash vs the Rockets starters and Collins and the bench were plus 3 vs the Rockets bench.

[Chinook]

The point is that Collins didn't have a better game than Wemby.

That's not what the stat measures. It would be like being weirded out Sochan had more rebounds then saying rebounds need to ne removed from the box score because it doesn't say who's the better player.

[Pauleta14]

That's not what the stat measures. It would be like being weirded out Sochan had more rebounds then saying rebounds need to ne removed from the box score because it doesn't say who's the better player.

I wasn't talking about the point of +/- stat but the point of his post/question.

It's not a stat that by itself will tell you much about an individual production or level of a player during a game, it's more in the correlation department than the causations one.

Matt Bonner would be a HOFer otherwise

[skin27]

You're saying 7'3 mid-range king?

Most likely.its not difficult to learn post moves however wemby doesnt have consistent post game even until now in his 2nd season.

[mudyez]

+/- is one of the worst stats if you only are looking at one game. But it's one of the best if looked on over the course of a season. Sure, it doesn't adjust for certain substitution patters (eg Wemby going against starters and Collins against second units...or a certain player beeing paired with a star coz he is his bodyguard or whatever), but it's a great stat to measure the real impact of a player.

I as a player always have been kind of a floor general...running the correct offenses...making sure, we always preventing opposing transition and so on. Often thats not measured in counting stats, but when subbed out and in I usually take a look at the scoreboard and I know my value to the team because more often than not it shows my positive +/-.

[mudyez]

And btw...this list is no joke...and I can't find Bonner anywhere:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/bpm_career.html

while this one is fun to look at:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-worst-plus-minus-in-a-game-in-nba-history

...and this one shows that a single game says nothing:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-best-plus-minus-in-a-game-in-nba-history

[Pauleta14]

+/- is one of the worst stats if you only are looking at one game. But it's one of the best if looked on over the course of a season. Sure, it doesn't adjust for certain substitution patters (eg Wemby going against starters and Collins against second units...or a certain player beeing paired with a star coz he is his bodyguard or whatever), but it's a great stat to measure the real impact of a player.

I as a player always have been kind of a floor general...running the correct offenses...making sure, we always preventing opposing transition and so on. Often thats not measured in counting stats, but when subbed out and in I usually take a look at the scoreboard and I know my value to the team because more often than not it shows my positive +/-.

Sure, I didn't say it was useless, just that it shouldn't be on the stat sheet basically.

I agree it's a very useful data on the middle/long term, but short term it's an open way to confuse correlation and causation imo

Too many factors other than the sole production of the player are impacting this stat

As for Bonner it's more a ST running joke but thx for the info

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ga8BOIwaYAAAJmQ?format=jpg&name=large

[Mnky]

His shot selection waa a big critique of mine when he first came in, and it wasn't received well. His hero ball mindset is really out of flow with the game. I don't mind him hitting that in the flow of the game but when you have two teammates playing really good and you're getting bullied into fadeaway deep 2s...it's time to rethink things.

I personally don't mind the spurs letting him do this now though. The easiest way to teach is through film. He's getting a lot of bad shots up on film. He can't argue with film. He can argue the decision if it didn't work put and they had gone away from him, but letting him make these mistakes allow him to learn the best way tbh. It's painstaking but necessary if he's really going to develop into that guy.

I trust that process and don't mind 1 more really good draft pick.

[MannyIsGod]

His shot selection waa a big critique of mine when he first came in, and it wasn't received well. His hero ball mindset is really out of flow with the game. I don't mind him hitting that in the flow of the game but when you have two teammates playing really good and you're getting bullied into fadeaway deep 2s...it's time to rethink things.

I personally don't mind the spurs letting him do this now though. The easiest way to teach is through film. He's getting a lot of bad shots up on film. He can't argue with film. He can argue the decision if it didn't work put and they had gone away from him, but letting him make these mistakes allow him to learn the best way tbh. It's painstaking but necessary if he's really going to develop into that guy.

I trust that process and don't mind 1 more really good draft pick.

I don't totally disagree with this but man it is difficult to watch him play with so little structure. I feel like Pop is afraid to reign him in because he might stop him from pushing the boundaries but it's going to be really hard to watch Wemby jack up logo 3s for another 79 games. That shit just feels so incredibly inefficient.

[TekXX]

I know it's not cool or hip but Wemby should try the sky hook.

[baseline bum]

I know it's not cool or hip but Wemby should try the sky hook.

Would be nice but I think Kareem was forced into it by the NCAA banning dunking.

[baseline bum]

Kind of frustrating seeing Wemby's shot selection improve so much last year and then go back to hell again at the end of the season when Devin, Keldon, and Sochan had their season ended early. Feels like Victor took the wrong lesson from the Spurs going .500 with him to end the season.

[Chomag]

Kind of frustrating seeing Wemby's shot selection improve so much last year and then go back to hell again at the end of the season when Devin, Keldon, and Sochan had their season ended early. Feels like Victor took the wrong lesson from the Spurs going .500 with him to end the season.

Poor coaching maybe? I know Wemby is accountable for the responsibility but I also think it's a coaches job to get their players into a more structured and focused mindset with a plan of execution and teaching the patience and discipline that is needed for quality shots rather then letting him freestyle it so much.

I don't know but when I look at Wemby I see a super talented star player that's just not being well coached right now.

[baseline bum]

Poor coaching maybe? I know Wemby is accountable for the responsibility but I also think it's a coaches job to get their players into a more controlled and focused mindset with a plan of execution and teaching the patience and discipline that is needed for quality shots rather then freestying it.

I don't know but when I look at Wemby I see a super talented star player that's just not being well coached

Absolutely. Five-ten-fifteen years ago Pop was an amazing coach as you could see from the growth by Kawhi and Danny Green, then Dejounte and Derrick White. Now just wish he had retired last April so the Spurs could have brought Bud in to the job he was being groomed for before Phoenix offered him their HC job.

[tim_duncan_fan]

I don't totally disagree with this but man it is difficult to watch him play with so little structure. I feel like Pop is afraid to reign him in because he might stop him from pushing the boundaries but it's going to be really hard to watch Wemby jack up logo 3s for another 79 games. That shit just feels so incredibly inefficient.

The good news is that it seems like most people on here are noticing this problem, so it is definitely not going unnoticed elsewhere. He seems to have high aspirations, so he'll get a sense that he needs structure, defined actions to take, and overall efficiency when people start throwing out the "maybe Wembanyama isn't that good" accusations.

I am an easy cliff-jumper and one of the first to be negative, but even knowing that about myself, still Vic did not look like someone you can go to for a highly probable bucket tonight. People are going to talk shit if this is gonna be his playstyle, cause it's not going to work on teams with a good coach and good players who have seen Vic before.


For a while, you could put a pesky small on like Bruce Bowen on Dirk and Dirk would get shaken, but he eventually adjusted. Wemby must figure that out too, on top of developing reliable scoring opportunities.

[Ice009]

I shouldn't have watched the game. Victor is terrible on offense. He's weak, and takes absolutely stupid shots and doesn't play in the flow of the offense when he's looking for his own shot. He has no go-to moves or shots. So in-efficient. He'll never win anything playing like this. The guy is not as smart as he thinks he is.

[Gibbz]

I shouldn't have watched the game. Victor is terrible on offense. He's weak, and takes absolutely stupid shots and doesn't play in the flow of the offense when he's looking for his own shot. He has no go-to moves or shots. So in-efficient. He'll never win anything playing like this. The guy is not as smart as he thinks he is.

He's 20. Also, what flow of the offense? :rollin

[rankingtear]

I still think he's a couple years away from a top 5 player. The strenght would come naturally. The team knows the ceiling is capped no matter what moves they make if Victor is the first option the next few seasons, that is why they are still in asset accumulation mode. He knows he won't threaten the GOAT title when he goes the AD route in his skill development, that is why we really don't hear impatience comments with him.

[Ice009]

He's 20. Also, what flow of the offense? :rollin

His age has nothing to do with it. He's smart, but it seems like he's looking for his own shot. He does try and make the right play when he finds that he's trapped and can't do whatever move he was trying to do. He needs to work on his fundamentals more (he needs someone like Tim Duncan to teach him some actual fundamentals instead of trying to rely on his otherworldly ability). Set a proper screen is one thing he can learn. Stop wasting energy trying to get himself into position to take a tough shot.

Edit : I should say, I wasn't happy with the way he played on offense. On defense, he was much, much better. Rebounded well, blocked shots and was tough on the end of the court. Maybe he should focus on defense and try and play within the offense on the other side of the ball instead of taking poor shots all the time. Be more decisive with the ball, and get to the rim more, not settle for terrible jump shots against smaller players. If he's got an open shot, great, take it, but don't work to get a tough shot against a smaller player. He's just tiring himself out working to only take a bad shot and bailing out the defense at the same time. I don't know, I'd be happy if he proves me wrong and starts hitting those shots consistently, but they're not really good shots to take.

[TheBallsbreakers]

The good news is that it seems like most people on here are noticing this problem, so it is definitely not going unnoticed elsewhere. He seems to have high aspirations, so he'll get a sense that he needs structure, defined actions to take, and overall efficiency when people start throwing out the "maybe Wembanyama isn't that good" accusations.

I am an easy cliff-jumper and one of the first to be negative, but even knowing that about myself, still Vic did not look like someone you can go to for a highly probable bucket tonight. People are going to talk shit if this is gonna be his playstyle, cause it's not going to work on teams with a good coach and good players who have seen Vic before.


For a while, you could put a pesky small on like Bruce Bowen on Dirk and Dirk would get shaken, but he eventually adjusted. Wemby must figure that out too, on top of developing reliable scoring opportunities.
I have no doubt he'll adjust and prevail in the long run.
Team does not seem to have established plays for him too, on top of his own difficulty establishing position.
They need basic plays like off-ball screens and action like they had late last season.
Well, must be Chris Paul still adjusting to him too.

[Limguogolo]

It's quite horrible to see.

At the start of the possession, the idea is to make Victor a Jokic-style center point, but while the Joker floats on the water like a big buoy during a tsunami, Victor seems to be an oak tree submerged by an overflowing bathtub.

We see the water slowly rising while he has the ball in his hand not knowing what to do with it, and the four other players seem to be slumped on their sofa watching the weather channel.

On the edge of the field, Pop watches inertly as the oak undergoes the tide, but our coach potato seems to count the bottles of grand cru in his cellar before shouting at his other four players to raise the sound level of the weather channel foreshadowing that a disaster is coming.

Then, the Spurs lose the ball like dwarf waterpolo players, the opposing team quickly scores in transition. Victor brings the ball up and from the Joker, we move on to a Curry halloween mask: since the playing field is flooded, Oakland baby giraffe decides to throw a brick over the Bay Bridge. Night-Day, Night-Day, season after season, the worst rubs shoulders with the best.

What a pain to watch.

[ambchang]

Wemby needs a bit more patience on offence as it’s really a timing issue. When opposing teams shut down the paint he has a tendency of jacking up long inefficient threes. Great if it goes in like the last rockets game, but you can’t break the law of averages.

Yes, the rest of the team has to improve their shooting, but much of this could be mitigated if wemby gets better positioning in the high post area to receive the ball rather than getting the ball 30 feet away from the basket and freelance. He can do it, he has shown he can do it, but it’s doing it over and over again despite it not being his preference.

[Pauleta14]

I don't totally disagree with this but man it is difficult to watch him play with so little structure. I feel like Pop is afraid to reign him in because he might stop him from pushing the boundaries but it's going to be really hard to watch Wemby jack up logo 3s for another 79 games. That shit just feels so incredibly inefficient.

The pb is that people assume that when you can do more you can do less, but Wemby is an exception.

He can do stuff out of this world but he still can't do the basic job of a center or a PF, he's really a guard in a 7'5' body.

Now the roster and the coach clearly don't help but Wemby also has a huge resp in this. He needs to change something as well

[SayTown]

Wemby can jack up long inefficient threes all game if he wants to, that shot will be always be open. He's not shooting that because the defense is forcing him to or cutting off all his other options he's shooting it because he wants to and wants to make highlight reels.

[Mal]

He needs to stop jacking those threes. Other team are gonna let him to do, if those % keep up.

[DAF86]

There is a certain logic into what Spurs are doing with Wembnayama.
Spurs are taking their time in building a roster around him and they are also taking their time with his development. There are no need to speed up his development if the team around him doesn't follow that.

Wembanyama could be better right now if he cut some aspect of his game and focus on some simple and effective moves. He doesn't want to do that, and, AFAIK, Spurs don't want him to that. The goal isn't to be good right now, it's to be great in 2/3 years. Batum said it well recently in a french interview: "He knows who he is and he knows who he should become"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORpak9ws2A0&t=1920s

At some point too much leeway translates to the development of bad habits. Wemby needs to realize that he will never reach his potential playing playground ball.

[TheBallsbreakers]

It's quite horrible to see.

At the start of the possession, the idea is to make Victor a Jokic-style center point, but while the Joker floats on the water like a big buoy during a tsunami, Victor seems to be an oak tree submerged by an overflowing bathtub.

We see the water slowly rising while he has the ball in his hand not knowing what to do with it, and the four other players seem to be slumped on their sofa watching the weather channel.

On the edge of the field, Pop watches inertly as the oak undergoes the tide, but our coach potato seems to count the bottles of grand cru in his cellar before shouting at his other four players to raise the sound level of the weather channel foreshadowing that a disaster is coming.

Then, the Spurs lose the ball like dwarf waterpolo players, the opposing team quickly scores in transition. Victor brings the ball up and from the Joker, we move on to a Curry halloween mask: since the playing field is flooded, Oakland baby giraffe decides to throw a brick over the Bay Bridge. Night-Day, Night-Day, season after season, the worst rubs shoulders with the best.

What a pain to watch.
That is the worst mishmash of metaphors I have ever read.

[Brazil]

:lol criticism are a bit harsh for the first 3 games of the season. Victor and Spurs are rightfully so aiming at developing a 3 pts shooting, he won't do that if he does not shoot. When you are 7'4 all you shoot seems open tbh.. he will learn. KD and Lebron started shooting below 30% in their first year, the 5 first games of Lebron year 2 he shot 23% from 3. The aim should be a 4 to 5 3 pts per game at around 35%. In his first 3 games he had 6 apg which is too much but also linked to the lack of the team 3 pts option, the return of Vassell will solve that issue. Vassell with CP3 and Victor passing should thrive in that regard.

For the rest, against Houston Victor was clearly under the weather. I saw his post game, he was coughing and sneezing.

Relax with the "horrible to see", the "he wants highlights reels" and all dat shit, I know it's spurstalk but come on

[onechance87]

:lol criticism are a bit harsh for the first 3 games of the season. Victor and Spurs are rightfully so aiming at developing a 3 pts shooting, he won't do that if he does not shoot. When you are 7'4 all you shoot seems open tbh.. he will learn. KD and Lebron started shooting below 30% in their first year, the 5 first games of Lebron year 2 he shot 23% from 3. The aim should be a 4 to 5 3 pts per game at around 35%. In his first 3 games he had 6 apg which is too much but also linked to the lack of the team 3 pts option, the return of Vassell will solve that issue. Vassell with CP3 and Victor passing should thrive in that regard.

For the rest, against Houston Victor was clearly under the weather. I saw his post game, he was coughing and sneezing.

Relax with the "horrible to see", the "he wants highlights reels" and all dat shit, I know it's spurstalk but come on

Hes taking shots like hes curry.Hes not cut that shit out.Take the open 3s is fine,But hes taking stupid outside shots and its becoming
a habit for him.

[Limguogolo]

Problem is not percentage, problem is shot selection and off balance shots. It's time to stop for Victor to be a Tik-Tok highlights machine and learn to play in the easiest way. No one is going to block him, so he has to find his spots, take his time, fake to cause fouls and go to the line. The percentages will never be correct if he never takes the same shot. Also the game must stop continually 'moving' around him: as soon as we give him the ball away from the racket, nothing happens and the game seems to be in slow motion. It would be interesting if this creates favorable situations like in the good times of Tim Duncan, except that Victor seems at this moment to be an old PC under Windows 95 which calculates an infinite time to produce a simple three-digit calculation (worst metaphor I have never read).

[Brazil]

Problem is not percentage, problem is shot selection and off balance shots. It's time to stop for Victor to be a Tik-Tok highlights machine and learn to play in the easiest way. No one is going to block him, so he has to find his spots, take his time, fake to cause fouls and go to the line. The percentages will never be correct if he never takes the same shot. Also the game must stop continually 'moving' around him: as soon as we give him the ball away from the racket, nothing happens and the game seems to be in slow motion. It would be interesting if this creates favorable situations like in the good times of Tim Duncan, except that Victor seems at this moment to be an old PC under Windows 95 which calculates an infinite time to produce a simple three-digit calculation (worst metaphor I have never read).

It seems you want Victor be like any other center or like something we know (KD, Jokic, Dirk...), newsflash he is not... if he does not try and settle for the easiest when he will figure out what he can really be ? Prospect here is not being a top 5 center in history, prospect or ambition is to have a shot at being the best ever. Maybe he can do that emulating other players or find his own way, creates his own hookshot. Then on your it would be interesting if this creates favorable situations I don't get it, last night he had 5 assists.

Dude had a 14 20 5 4 night while being sick, give the kid a break and enjoy the process

[Mitch Cumsteen]

It's frustrating to watch the careless turnovers and the bad shot selection, especially those bombs early in the clock. Almost all of those errors are unforced. It doesn't make sense to me that a guy who seems to have a high basketball IQ and sees the floor and passes as well as he can, can also be so braindead. I mean, this isn't exactly Pop taking the reins off of Manu. This is just Vic doing stupid shit.

It's frustrating to watch Vic get put in a straightjacket by a guy who is a foot shorter than him. And let's face it, they aren't doing him any favors with the actions they are running. Hey Vic, here's the ball 30 feet from the basket, go do something. Mix in a cross screen or a back pick maybe to free him up?

I thought that Chris Paul would clean some of this stuff up, but I'm not seeing much evidence of that. Granted... it's early in the season / he's sick /out of shape/ small sample size/ whatever, but if Wemby doesn't start taking better care of the ball this team isn't going to sniff the post season.

[The Truth #6]

Clearly he wants to be a one-on-one player, but has problems dribbling against small forwards understandably, and doesn't have enough strength to abuse typical post-players down low. So he's going to need to rely on a team game with movement I imagine. Oddly, he played best along Sidy and Mamu who do just that.

[spurraider21]

Absolutely. Five-ten-fifteen years ago Pop was an amazing coach as you could see from the growth by Kawhi and Danny Green, then Dejounte and Derrick White. Now just wish he had retired last April so the Spurs could have brought Bud in to the job he was being groomed for before Phoenix offered him their HC job.
wasnt just those guys either. there'd be games where pop would rest everybody from the big 3, and they'd still go out there and sometimes beat some of the best teams in the league because the entire roster functioned as a well-oiled machine. this one particularly comes to mind


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF4VwFENbN4

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201312190GSW.html

and not necessarily full games either. countless times the starters would come out flat and pop would do his hockey shift subs and bring in 5 reserves and they'd bring us back

[spursparker9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEcO75h1o9I

Wemby is definitely sicked. Not sure if he would play in the next game against Chet and OKC

[spurraider21]

yeah that seems to be the story

1851101837350342967

[skin27]

It's frustrating to watch the careless turnovers and the bad shot selection, especially those bombs early in the clock. Almost all of those errors are unforced. It doesn't make sense to me that a guy who seems to have a high basketball IQ and sees the floor and passes as well as he can, can also be so braindead. I mean, this isn't exactly Pop taking the reins off of Manu. This is just Vic doing stupid shit.

It's frustrating to watch Vic get put in a straightjacket by a guy who is a foot shorter than him. And let's face it, they aren't doing him any favors with the actions they are running. Hey Vic, here's the ball 30 feet from the basket, go do something. Mix in a cross screen or a back pick maybe to free him up?

I thought that Chris Paul would clean some of this stuff up, but I'm not seeing much evidence of that. Granted... it's early in the season / he's sick /out of shape/ small sample size/ whatever, but if Wemby doesn't start taking better care of the ball this team isn't going to sniff the post season.

Wemby has a low basketball IQ. He is talented but low BBIQ

[Chinook]

It seems you want Victor be like any other center or like something we know (KD, Jokic, Dirk...), newsflash he is not... if he does not try and settle for the easiest when he will figure out what he can really be ? Prospect here is not being a top 5 center in history, prospect or ambition is to have a shot at being the best ever. Maybe he can do that emulating other players or find his own way, creates his own hookshot. Then on your it would be interesting if this creates favorable situations I don't get it, last night he had 5 assists.

Dude had a 14 20 5 4 night while being sick, give the kid a break and enjoy the process

This is caustic thinking. Wemby's not Lamar Jackson where he's an unconventional talent folks try to shoehorn into playing a certain way instead of letting him marry his talents to the position. He's a runningback who jumps into front of the QB to take the snap and then throws an interception.

The problem is not his numbers. It's how he plays on the court. That's not the result of him being sick. It's not really the result of him being unique. It's a result of the mentality he seems to bring to the court. He's not playing all that differently than he has since he was in France. That didn't change. What changed is the excuses for it are starting to look thin. Yes, he can play better, but A) It's concerning that he's only regressed in that area since last season and B) It's weird that we ever had to ask this. What does Wemby do well on offense? By that I don't mean what does he show a lot of potential for. I mean what is he able to do reliably on that end? I can't name a single thing. For a guy who wants the ball so much, that's concerning.

EDIT to expand on the runningback metaphor. It's not about him being lesser of a star than a QB. It's understanding that his role depends on others to do their jobs and for him to do his. Wemby shouldn't measure himself against perimeter stars. I don't care if that's how he sees himself. It's not where he is right now. He can be a center who does more, but he has to be an actual center to do that, and that doesn't seem to be his main focus. He seems to have gone into the off-season training as if he were a wing. That's wrong-headed in a similar way as Sochan playing PG last year. If Pop is behind it, it's more reason to let him go. If Wemby is behind it, someone needs to get through to him.

[Chinook]

And no, Wemby is a GOAT level talent. We all know this. But he's less than the sum of his parts now. He will undoubtedly have great games and bring his impact stats up to be elite. The talent is that superlative. But his maturation isn't guaranteed. Wanting to be great and focusing on winning a title isn't what gets you there. That's fluff. It's being willing to work on yourself and take a hard look at your areas of improvement. Focusing on building upper body muscle feels like one of the least important things to do coming off last season. It's a guard/driving thing that doesn't align with the actual areas of weakness.

[Pauleta14]

:lol criticism are a bit harsh for the first 3 games of the season. Victor and Spurs are rightfully so aiming at developing a 3 pts shooting, he won't do that if he does not shoot. When you are 7'4 all you shoot seems open tbh.. he will learn. KD and Lebron started shooting below 30% in their first year, the 5 first games of Lebron year 2 he shot 23% from 3. The aim should be a 4 to 5 3 pts per game at around 35%. In his first 3 games he had 6 apg which is too much but also linked to the lack of the team 3 pts option, the return of Vassell will solve that issue. Vassell with CP3 and Victor passing should thrive in that regard.

For the rest, against Houston Victor was clearly under the weather. I saw his post game, he was coughing and sneezing.

Relax with the "horrible to see", the "he wants highlights reels" and all dat shit, I know it's spurstalk but come on

I'm fine with the 3s, he needs them to have long career and to be able to make defenses doubt.

I'm more concerned by him wandering too often not knowing what to do or not seing any plays they'd have been working on. It still looks free flowing

[Brazil]

The problem is not his numbers. It's how he plays on the court. That's not the result of him being sick. It's not really the result of him being unique. It's a result of the mentality he seems to bring to the court. He's not playing all that differently than he has since he was in France. That didn't change. What changed is the excuses for it are starting to look thin. Yes, he can play better, but A) It's concerning that he's only regressed in that area since last season and B) It's weird that we ever had to ask this. What does Wemby do well on offense? By that I don't mean what does he show a lot of potential for. I mean what is he able to do reliably on that end? I can't name a single thing. For a guy who wants the ball so much, that's concerning.

If you don't think he is not playing that different compared to when he was playing in France, you did not pay a lot of attention. He played already quite differently between first and second half of the year for the Spurs in particular his passing and playmaking, it was night and day and it is true on both end of the floor.

Victor went in less than 2 years from playing a new team in France (Asvel to Mets) to playing with Sochan as a PG to playing with Tre to playing in the Olympics to playing with CP3 and Barnes while being 20 y/o and a freak of nature. Also teams are now aware of his strenghts and weaknesses and defend much better on him. You talk about his offensive game and not being able to detect what he does well, like really ? His passing skills are already very good, his court vision is good, he is capable of creating his own shot, his handles are pretty awesome for a guy of his size... we bitch about his 3 pts, he shot quite good in his first year for a non guard. Is there any room for progress ? of course, he cannot post up for shit, his shot selection could be better, he takes some bad decision, forces passes and is TO prone... I know it sounds crazy but he is not a finished product... shocking

We have already had a debate in this forum about the method Victor is using, he is working on everything at the same time on defense and offense which is quite different from the method of adding stuff little by little while focusing almost exclusively on what a player is good at the beginning. There is good and bad for both. Jokic developped a 3 pts shooting in year 3 which is also the case for instance for KD who was not shooting a lot of 3s in his first two years but for all the KD and Jokic you have your 3&D guys who never developped ball handling, the Tony who never developped a 3 pts shooting etc... You know who else worked on everything since day 1 ? Lebron. Lebron who in year 1 had terrible 3 pts shooting (worst than Victor), was turning the ball over etc...

This is the way he chose to develop his game, it can be frustrating to watch but it what it is, his usage will continue off the chart, he will make some boneheads play, try difficult passes and shoot from the logo.. a balance will be found eventually in year 2 maybe in year 3

At the end, it is three games with almost no pre season games and one of which sick.

you can call that excuses if you want, I call that looking at the big picture
He is doing all of that while being today arguably a top 5 defender in the league...

[spurraider21]

i disagree that he cant post up. no, he's not going to do the traditional post game where he sticks his ass out and backs his defender out of bounds like shaq would do. but we've seen plenty of finesse post players as well.

ive said it before, but KP was the most efficient post-up player in the league last year, and its not because of his overwhelming power and dominant low post footwork (yes, he is stronger than Vic is, and is a better shooter). most of what he did was take advantage of size mismatches and get himself in position to just rise up for easy middies. you dont need to jack up a contested 21 footer, you can just work a little bit off the dribble to get into that 14-15 foot range and pull up from there. the below is just one game where he did this quite a few times when the mavs threw wings like josh green and derrick jones jr at him. this is how wemby could be taking advantage of Brooks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-9_3ixfsww

to be fair, the team could also run actions to get wemby the ball in the midpost, where he can use his length and long strides to just work around brooks and get clean looks. this happened late in the game when vic caught the ball on the left side, took one dribble, and then rose up for a free throw line jumper that he buried. getting him better starting position than just having him catch the ball at the top of the key would help. but its also incumbent on him to take advantage of the height disparity

[Brazil]

i disagree that he cant post up. no, he's not going to do the traditional post game where he sticks his ass out and backs his defender out of bounds like shaq would do. but we've seen plenty of finesse post players as well.

ive said it before, but KP was the most efficient post-up player in the league last year, and its not because of his overwhelming power and dominant low post footwork (yes, he is stronger than Vic is, and is a better shooter). most of what he did was take advantage of size mismatches and get himself in position to just rise up for easy middies. you dont need to jack up a contested 21 footer, you can just work a little bit off the dribble to get into that 14-15 foot range and pull up from there. the below is just one game where he did this quite a few times when the mavs threw wings like josh green and derrick jones jr at him. this is how wemby could be taking advantage of Brooks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-9_3ixfsww

to be fair, the team could also run actions to get wemby the ball in the midpost, where he can use his length and long strides to just work around brooks and get clean looks. this happened late in the game when vic caught the ball on the left side, took one dribble, and then rose up for a free throw line jumper that he buried. getting him better starting position than just having him catch the ball at the top of the key would help. but its also incumbent on him to take advantage of the height disparity

I agree fully and was talking about backing down defender near the rim especifically or bullying a smaller defender. Porzingis is also smarter protecting the ball, he doesn't try fancy handling just good awareness to let ball not being at reach.

I like the Porzingis parallel tbh... at 20 y/o despite his size his shot selection was not particulary good and efficiency was also lackluster... but as he had less tool than Victor it became easier for him to focus on his fundations, by year 2 he was pretty much a finished product who cleaned up his game getting more efficient with the experience. Victor feels he can be elite at everything (curry range, kyrie handles, tim defense, david explosion....) who are we to tell him otherwise ? he'll have to figure out his limitations and deal with it.

[ambchang]

It seems you want Victor be like any other center or like something we know (KD, Jokic, Dirk...), newsflash he is not... if he does not try and settle for the easiest when he will figure out what he can really be ? Prospect here is not being a top 5 center in history, prospect or ambition is to have a shot at being the best ever. Maybe he can do that emulating other players or find his own way, creates his own hookshot. Then on your it would be interesting if this creates favorable situations I don't get it, last night he had 5 assists.

Dude had a 14 20 5 4 night while being sick, give the kid a break and enjoy the process

Not getting the logic. If he wants to do that, do it in practice, not in a game.

You know what the best ever do? They do things that are the easiest for them and dominate at those things. Hakeem doesn’t do threes, Shaq doesnt do shake and bake from 20 feet, Duncan doesn't do fadeway off balanced shots from 20 feet. The best ever does a few things incredibly well that the defence cannot do anything about it.

People know Kareem will throw a hook from the right post, they know duncan will do a bank shot from 18 on the left corner, they know Hakeem will do his dream shake in the low post, they know Shaq will back them in the paint and score within 3 feet, but they can’t do anything about it.

Wemby can do that, once he reigns back his shot selection and take good shots, he will dominate. There already things you can’t do anything to stop him, wemby at the high post will be lethal. I still want him to model his game after Garnett, but expanded. He will be absolutely unstoppable. Who will block an 18 footer from wemby? Who can stop his drives with those long strides? He makes life difficult for himself and easier for defence, once he figures those parts our (or pop drills it in his head), then the cheat code is unlocked.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't need Wemby to be Shaq or Hakeem or play like them. Really the only gripe I have are the 35+ ft pull up 3s with lots of time on the shot clock. I just don't see how that's ever a good shot. Literally the only thing I am annoyed with from Wemby.

[tbdog]

Wemby iso near the end was also bad. Get him the ball at the top of the key rather than iso a legit swing forward from the 3pt line.

[Limguogolo]

It seems you want Victor be like any other center or like something we know (KD, Jokic, Dirk...), newsflash he is not... if he does not try and settle for the easiest when he will figure out what he can really be ? Prospect here is not being a top 5 center in history, prospect or ambition is to have a shot at being the best ever. Maybe he can do that emulating other players or find his own way, creates his own hookshot. Then on your it would be interesting if this creates favorable situations I don't get it, last night he had 5 assists.

Dude had a 14 20 5 4 night while being sick, give the kid a break and enjoy the process
Newsflash: in no world does a player as good as he is have fun shooting from the logo when he has plenty of time to advance to the basket.

Victor will never learn to be that player because that player has no reason to exist except in the Chinese ldeague.

These are the kind of shots you take when you're pushed back by the defense late in a possession. It’s always an admission of failure. Here, Victor isn't even pushed by the defense, he does it because it's a major admission of helplessness. It's fun, a crazy horse with no spurs.

Playing well also means playing with your head. And there are times for everything, even for a big guy who can dribble and needs to experiment. You experience useful situations, you don't experience stupid actions. Intelligence is knowing how to make things simple, not complicated. Because newsflash: people who make life difficult never win anything.

[Brazil]

Not getting the logic. If he wants to do that, do it in practice, not in a game.

You know what the best ever do? They do things that are the easiest for them and dominate at those things. Hakeem doesn’t do threes, Shaq doesnt do shake and bake from 20 feet, Duncan doesn't do fadeway off balanced shots from 20 feet. The best ever does a few things incredibly well that the defence cannot do anything about it.

People know Kareem will throw a hook from the right post, they know duncan will do a bank shot from 18 on the left corner, they know Hakeem will do his dream shake in the low post, they know Shaq will back them in the paint and score within 3 feet, but they can’t do anything about it.

Wemby can do that, once he reigns back his shot selection and take good shots, he will dominate. There already things you can’t do anything to stop him, wemby at the high post will be lethal. I still want him to model his game after Garnett, but expanded. He will be absolutely unstoppable. Who will block an 18 footer from wemby? Who can stop his drives with those long strides? He makes life difficult for himself and easier for defence, once he figures those parts our (or pop drills it in his head), then the cheat code is unlocked.

In practice ? :lol in practice there are dudes who look like the reincarnation of MJ, nothing replaces the competition.

Curry did not do the easiest, he started shooting 3s from the logo in transition instead of settling for corner 3s the easiest of the 3, the hookshot was certainly not the easiest shot (proof is nobody is using it anymore), Magic sent blind passes instead of regular passes... Lebron decided he can also play all position including PG and add a 3 pts shot certainly not the easiest for him. Victor is figuring it out, one thing is for sure he does not want to be a traditional dominant big doing the easiest ala Shaq, he wants it all.. time will tell if he will be successful or not. I believe in the near future he will be smart enough to know what he can and cannot do, for now he believes he can do it all working hard.

I also cringe looking at his long 3s out of rythm with plenty of time on the shot clock but I do understand where he is coming from. I just trust the process, he is a smart kid

[Brazil]

Because newsflash: people who make life difficult never win anything.

not sure what's your point here, make life difficult for yourself, pushing the boundaries is actually the receipt of winning in sport, business everything. Mistakes are integral part of the process, you totally learn from stupid actions. I'm sure you did a lot of stupid stuff in your life and you learned from it.

[ambchang]

In practice ? :lol in practice there are dudes who look like the reincarnation of MJ, nothing replaces the competition.

Curry did not do the easiest, he started shooting 3s from the logo in transition instead of settling for corner 3s the easiest of the 3, the hookshot was certainly not the easiest shot (proof is nobody is using it anymore), Magic sent blind passes instead of regular passes... Lebron decided he can also play all position including PG and add a 3 pts shot certainly not the easiest for him. Victor is figuring it out, one thing is for sure he does not want to be a traditional dominant big doing the easiest ala Shaq, he wants it all.. time will tell if he will be successful or not. I believe in the near future he will be smart enough to know what he can and cannot do, for now he believes he can do it all working hard.

I also cringe looking at his long 3s out of rythm with plenty of time on the shot clock but I do understand where he is coming from. I just trust the process, he is a smart kid

I think we just agree to disagree. As you noted those greats do one great thing nobody else is doing, not everything. Wemby is doing everything now and he isn’t good at any of them. Focus on one or two things you want to be great at at a time, lebron worked on his threes, magic his no looks, steph his step back threes, Kareem his skyhook, hakeem his shakes, duncan his banks, Dirk his one foot fades, jordan his turnaround fades, but they did these in practice first until it’s a proficient and consistent move before busting them out in games. Wemby is just doing whatever comes to his mind at the moment (at least it looks like that to me). He shouldn’t be pushed to do hard things, he should impose his will on the defence.

[Spurs Homer]

I look at wemby shooting 3's this way:

Hmmm wemby taking a shot from anywhere on the court -

versus

branham, zollins,wesley, et al

shooting bricks?

Wemby can take every shot as far as im concerned.

[ambchang]

I look at wemby shooting 3's this way:

Hmmm wemby taking a shot from anywhere on the court -

versus

branham, zollins,wesley, et al

shooting bricks?

Wemby can take every shot as far as im concerned.

I’d rather the entire team brick shots than one person brick shots and the rest of the guys just stand around. It does impact the defence when players don’t get the ball, and the offence becomes to stationary that the opposition won’t even have to try. They’d at least have to run around when the ball is being passed around.

[RC_Drunkford]

He needs to work on his midrange game and a hook shot. If that is established he can then simply pump fake and if the defender bites, it‘s a dunk. If he got a hook shot (and I‘m not talking about the sky-hook) nobody can get that and the counter move is the step through which he used in Game 2 against the Rockets. This is how he will be able to get a bunch of easy buckets inside

[rankingtear]

Clearly he wants to be a one-on-one player, but has problems dribbling against small forwards understandably, and doesn't have enough strength to abuse typical post-players down low. So he's going to need to rely on a team game with movement I imagine. Oddly, he played best along Sidy and Mamu who do just that.

Pretty much sums it up. The closest thing to that is UTA with Markannen, it is not a coincidence he is the only player they legitimately went after.

[tim_duncan_fan]

I look at wemby shooting 3's this way:

Hmmm wemby taking a shot from anywhere on the court -

versus

branham, zollins,wesley, et al

shooting bricks?

Wemby can take every shot as far as im concerned.

Yeah, this would be destructive in the longterm and most nights not productive in the short.

Right now, Victor needs to not have a green light. He very clearly needs a set of actions, a set of moves and reads he is supposed to progress through to try to get as-low-effort-as-possible buckets.

Even when he has a night where he is just jacking shots up and they are going in, it's still counterproductive if he is not getting those shots in a constructive way.


These losses are actually badly needed because they are, at least in significant part, due to Vic just doing what he wants to do instead of doing things well. Maybe the coaching staff is allowing him to see that he needs coaching. Sometimes with teenagers, you have to let a hard head create a soft ass.

[Brazil]

I think we just agree to disagree. As you noted those greats do one great thing nobody else is doing, not everything. Wemby is doing everything now and he isn’t good at any of them. Focus on one or two things you want to be great at at a time, lebron worked on his threes, magic his no looks, steph his step back threes, Kareem his skyhook, hakeem his shakes, duncan his banks, Dirk his one foot fades, jordan his turnaround fades, but they did these in practice first until it’s a proficient and consistent move before busting them out in games. Wemby is just doing whatever comes to his mind at the moment (at least it looks like that to me). He shouldn’t be pushed to do hard things, he should impose his will on the defence.

we agree to disagree indeed but we are not far off tbh... It seems Victor with FO blessing made a choice to work on everything at the same time rather than adding piece by piece on more robust go to stuff he is good at, both have their pros and cons, the Kaizen approach is less nerve wrecking for fans but I trust he knows what it is best for him and for the Spurs on the long term.

[Pauleta14]

His shot is fine, it's technically perfect even

The issue always comes from how well he can set his feet and shoot in a flow.

That's why he's so good at step backs shots compared to catch and shoot who takes away the ryhthm/"flow"

If you add his weak core/legs, it adds even more difficulties when he's guarded closely like vs Rockettes.

Good for him most teams don't have this strategy nor a Brooks