Trayvon Martin - black kid armed with skittles killed in "self-defense"

[Yonivore]

smh@ those piece of shit injuries:lmao

I've fallen and scraped my knee and had more blood that that. It wasn't serious enough for him to get stitched up so that pic is irrelevant.
You can die from a closed head injury that produces no external bleeding.

The pictures prove Zimmerman suffered a head injury consistent with his claim of having it struck against a concrete sidewalk.


At this point its looking more and more like this creep is going to get off. I hope they do and we get some street justice.
I hope this forum logs IP addresses.

[Trill Clinton]

You can die from a closed head injury that produces no external bleeding.

The pictures prove Zimmerman suffered a head injury consistent with his claim of having it struck against a concrete sidewalk.


I hope this forum logs IP addresses.

you can die from a gunshot to the sternum too foh.

[Yonivore]

you can die from a gunshot to the sternum too foh.
No doubt about that. Well, let me qualify that; the projectile would have to penetrate the sternum and violate an internal organ or vessel vital to life. The sternum offers protection but, being shot in it isn't necessarily fatal

[Wild Cobra]

you can die from a gunshot to the sternum too foh.

Maybe you guys that think a preemptive strike is OK should think twice.

Don't bring skittles to a gunfight.... Yes, I said it...

[cantthinkofanything]

smh@ those piece of shit injuries:lmao

I've fallen and scraped my knee and had more blood that that. It wasn't serious enough for him to get stitched up so that pic is irrelevant.

At this point its looking more and more like this creep is going to get off. I hope they do and we get some street justice.

LOL. You're exposing your troll.

[Yonivore]

Maybe you guys that thing a preemptive strike is OK should think twice.

Don't bring skittles to a gunfight.... Yes, I said it...
And that makes you an idiot for doing so.

:::smh:::

[Wild Cobra]

And that makes you an idiot for doing so.

:::smh:::
Hey, the consensus on this forum is that I am an idiot, so I must be since that's how science works.

[boutons_deux]

"consensus on this forum is that I am an idiot, so I must be since that's how science works."

The evidence is overwhelming.

[DisAsTerBot]

smh@ those piece of shit injuries:lmao

I've fallen and scraped my knee and had more blood that that. It wasn't serious enough for him to get stitched up so that pic is irrelevant.

At this point its looking more and more like this creep is going to get off. I hope they do and we get some street justice.

wow. just as it was said many pages ago. Both sides are too dug in, doesn't matter what actually happened at this point.

smh

[Yonivore]

wow. just as it was said many pages ago. Both sides are too dug in, doesn't matter what actually happened at this point.

smh
Except one side consistently points out the known information to date is consistent with their position while the other side just engages in the same inflammatory rhetoric that Zimmerman went out looking for a black kid to stalk and kill.

Tell me, which do you think is closer to the truth?

And, what evidence has anyone on that side of the argument produced that even hints at 2nd degree murder? Don't point to the arrest or probable cause affidavit because, there's no evidence in there either.

[spursncowboys]

After the release of the photo, however, Dershowitz went much further, telling Breitbart News that if the prosecutors did have the photo and didn’t mention it in the affidavit, that would constitute a “grave ethical violation,” since affidavits are supposed to contain “all relevant information.”
Dershowitz continued, “An affidavit that willfully misstates undisputed evidence known to the prosecution is not only unethical but borders on perjury because an affiant swears to tell not only the truth, but the whole truth, and suppressing an important part of the whole truth is a lie."

[spursncowboys]

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/20/Dershowitz-prosecution-immoral

[Yonivore]

Dershowitz comment.
I agree. The prosecution is looking more political every day. I doubt you'll ever see any disciplinary action or criminal charges against the prosecutor but, stranger things have happened.

Sincerely,
Mike Nifong

[Wild Cobra]

Don't you know...

The prosecution will claim "photoshop."

I'm surprised I didn't see anyone here say that yet.

[Wild Cobra]

I agree. The prosecution is looking more political every day. I doubt you'll ever see any disciplinary action or criminal charges against the prosecutor but, stranger things have happened.

Sincerely,
Mike Nifong
I wonder what the 'lynch Zimmerman mob' would say if that happened?

[Yonivore]

I wonder what the 'lynch Zimmerman mob' would say if that happened?
I'm still waiting for the Justice Department to investigate the racist calls for violence and Zimmerman's murder.

Although, I'm not holding my breath.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Oh so now Zimmerman having injuries to the back of the head is news?

Yeah there wasn't commentary about how you could see it from the shitty video of him being brought into the jail. You same guys were making sure that everyone could see it. Now you guys are crowing victory. :rolleyes

And Dershowitz is claiming ethics all day long but he is not claiming anything that breaks any rules of evidence or anything.

He might as well call the prosecutor mean and ugly too.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm still waiting for the Justice Department to investigate the racist calls for violence and Zimmerman's murder.

Although, I'm not holding my breath.

You really think that the US FBI is not looking at the NBP? Really?

[clambake]

lol at how defensive this GSH guy is.

must have grown up with tons of ridicule.

[Trill Clinton]

No doubt about that. Well, let me qualify that; the projectile would have to penetrate the sternum and violate an internal organ or vessel vital to life. The sternum offers protection but, being shot in it isn't necessarily fatal

ahhh that makes sense


Maybe you guys that thing a preemptive strike is OK should think twice.

Don't bring skittles to a gunfight.... Yes, I said it...

good point

[Wild Cobra]

I'm still waiting for the Justice Department to investigate the racist calls for violence and Zimmerman's murder.

Although, I'm not holding my breath.
Yes, please don't. We don't need to find out you died of asphyxia.

[Trill Clinton]

LOL. You're exposing your troll.

I don't troll. everything I type is from the heart. yes I want the coward zimmerman either in jail/prison or to die.

[Yonivore]

You really think that the US FBI is not looking at the NBP? Really?
After having a summary judgment, against them, for voter intimidation committed during the last election, and dismissing the charges as one if the Holder Justice Department's first acts?

Yes, I think it's possible the Justice Department is looking the other way.

There's already plenty of videotaped evidence to arrest Malik Shabazz for solicitation of murder.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/04/20/Dershowitz-prosecution-immoral

Innnnnnnteresting. I smell another Sharpton speech.

[Yonivore]

Oh so now Zimmerman having injuries to the back of the head is news?

Yeah there wasn't commentary about how you could see it from the shitty video of him being brought into the jail. You same guys were making sure that everyone could see it. Now you guys are crowing victory. :rolleyes

And Dershowitz is claiming ethics all day long but he is not claiming anything that breaks any rules of evidence or anything.

He might as well call the prosecutor mean and ugly too.
I think the point being made is not that Zimmerman's injuries are news but that it would be news if -- with the graphic photograph being released now -- the prosecution had possession of that photograph, it would be unethical and quite possibly, perjury by exclusion, for the prosecutor not the raise the existence of Zimmerman's injuries in the affidavit.

[ElNono]

Why would the photo change any claims in the affidavit?

[ElNono]

I think the point being made is not that Zimmerman's injuries are news but that it would be news if -- with the graphic photograph being released now -- the prosecution had possession of that photograph, it would be unethical and quite possibly, perjury by exclusion, for the prosecutor not the raise the existence of Zimmerman's injuries in the affidavit.

Why?

[ElNono]

The prosecution certainly had the picture/video everyone saw with Zimmerman's head injuries in the police station. I'm pretty sure that picture is in this very same thread somewhere.

[Wild Cobra]

I don't troll. everything I type is from the heart. yes I want the coward zimmerman either in jail/prison or to die.
Don't hold me to this, because I only think it is true from the evidence released so far.

I think this will haunt Zimmerman for the rest of his life. I think Martin would have been in trouble with the law for assault or even dead at some future date had this not happened.

Justice and revenge are two different things. Why is this personal? Think about what you are saying. Are your tendencies such that you might pick a fight at some future day with someone who carries concealed?

I'm not sure what to think of Zimmerman. Coward? probably not, but could be. I think he got more than he bargained for and panicked. I think Martin was the aggressor, and was going to show Zimmerman he was the shit.

How do you explain the things that have come to light? The pattern of Martin's gold teeth indicate to me he was in some pretty good street brawls. His revealed Facebook (or was it twitter) accounts show him with a gangster thug type attitude.

[ElNono]

The prosecutor didn't have this video:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-case-video-shows-injury-george-zimmermans/story?id=16055412#.T5HB4lqgToA

when it filed the affidavit?

[CosmicCowboy]

Don't you know...

The prosecution will claim "photoshop."

I'm surprised I didn't see anyone here say that yet.

Boushit already did.

[DarrinS]

Boushit already did.

Really?

[CosmicCowboy]

Yeah, claimed the blood was too red to be real.

[Yonivore]

The prosecutor didn't have this video:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-case-video-shows-injury-george-zimmermans/story?id=16055412#.T5HB4lqgToA

when it filed the affidavit?
You would think so.

But, even after that video was released publicly there was argument over whether or not it actually showed injuries.

In the story you linked:


But the video does show what could be an injury to the back of Zimmerman's head.

"...what could be..." Not exactly a declaration of certainty.

But, to the point, there is no reason for the prosecution to not have access to the photo being released today. That's the crux of the matter. If she did and made no mention of it in the affidavit -- other legal professionals have said that's unethical.

Don't argue with us; argue with Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz.

[GSH]

Why would the photo change any claims in the affidavit?

Ummm.... because the affidavit is REQUIRED to inlude any exculpatory evidence held by the prosecution?

Not sure if serious.

[Trill Clinton]

Don't hold me to this, because I only think it is true from the evidence released so far.

I think this will haunt Zimmerman for the rest of his life. I think Martin would have been in trouble with the law for assault or even dead at some future date had this not happened.

Justice and revenge are two different things. Why is this personal? Think about what you are saying. Are your tendencies such that you might pick a fight at some future day with someone who carries concealed?

I'm not sure what to think of Zimmerman. Coward? probably not, but could be. I think he got more than he bargained for and panicked. I think Martin was the aggressor, and was going to show Zimmerman he was the shit.

How do you explain the things that have come to light? The pattern of Martin's gold teeth indicate to me he was in some pretty good street brawls. His revealed Facebook (or was it twitter) accounts show him with a gangster thug type attitude.



Most kids Trayvon's age, regardless of race, who are from the area he is from try to mimic that "thug" image. Same way some white kids go through an emo-goth stage. Should we judge them for that?

I know I'm coming off irrational but honestly I just feel that this guy is going to get off and its crazy how people are justifying it. We don't know the truth of what went on that night but in my opinion it all boils down to the choices Zimmerman made, not the other way around.

[Wild Cobra]

Boushit already did.
OK...

It doesn't surprise me I missed it. I catch myself automatically skipping some of his posts. Just not worth the time usually.

[ElNono]

But, to the point, there is no reason for the prosecution to not have access to the photo being released today. That's the crux of the matter. If she did and made no mention of it in the affidavit -- other legal professionals have said that's unethical.

Don't argue with us; argue with Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz.

Apparently, Alan Dershowitz needs to argue it with the judge in the case who thought nothing wrong of the affidavit.

Furthermore, apparently Dershowitz doesn't even really know if the prosecutors had that picture.

[Wild Cobra]

Yeah, claimed the blood was too red to be real.

Oh, I did see that.

I just chalked it off as another uneducated assumption.

[ElNono]

Ummm.... because the affidavit is REQUIRED to inlude any exculpatory evidence held by the prosecution?

Not sure if serious.

How would the picture be exculpatory?
The affidavit says a "struggle ensued" and Martin was shot and killed. It doesn't say there were no injuries.

[boutons_deux]

old blood ain't that red.

If it were fresh blood, ok.

[Wild Cobra]

Ummm.... because the affidavit is REQUIRED to inlude any exculpatory evidence held by the prosecution?

Not sure if serious.
Since I don't know that aspect of law, I could be wrong, but if what you say is correct, that appears to be a serious violation to me.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Really?

Does it really surprise you that people other than yourself lie?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ummm.... because the affidavit is REQUIRED to inlude any exculpatory evidence held by the prosecution?

Not sure if serious.

What legal background if any do you have?

[spursncowboys]

The prosecution certainly had the picture/video everyone saw with Zimmerman's head injuries in the police station. I'm pretty sure that picture is in this very same thread somewhere.

But it wasn't included in the affidavit which is what dershawitz was saying was unethical and possibly illegal.

[CosmicCowboy]

What legal background if any do you have?

Quote: Alan Dershowitz previously posted


, “An affidavit that willfully misstates undisputed evidence known to the prosecution is not only unethical but borders on perjury because an affiant swears to tell not only the truth, but the whole truth, and suppressing an important part of the whole truth is a lie."

[Wild Cobra]

Most kids Trayvon's age, regardless of race, who are from the area he is from try to mimic that "thug" image. Same way some white kids go through an emo-goth stage. Should we judge them for that?
Yes, that would fit what I see on a daily basis. Are you suggesting that it makes it OK to attack someone?

I know I'm coming off irrational but honestly I just feel that this guy is going to get off and its crazy how people are justifying it. We don't know the truth of what went on that night but in my opinion it all boils down to the choices Zimmerman made, not the other way around.

Not irrational, we just disagree on some things. Real early on, and I'm not going to look for the post, I said something to the effect that Zimmerman was probably scared shitless, and it probably took him time to remember he had the means to stop being hit. I also pointed out that under similar circumstances, if I was carrying, and the events unfolded as they appear to have, that I would have killed Martin. I would have shot someone under the same situation, if I was held to the ground, being hit, and had no other means of stopping it.

As for a choice? How many of us make rational decisions under intense pressure?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

old blood ain't that red.

If it were fresh blood, ok.

It says it was taken at the scene of the crime, you damn loon.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Try to keep up, fuzzy.

[ElNono]

But it wasn't included in the affidavit which is what dershawitz was saying was unethical and possibly illegal.

Thus my question is how does this picture changes anything, since the prior video was already public knowledge?

[Trill Clinton]

Yes, that would fit what i see on a daily basis. Are you suggesting that it makes it OK to attack someone?

Not irrational, we just disagree on some things. Real early on, and I'm not going to look for the post, I said something to the effect that Zimmerman was probably scared shitless, and it probably took him time to remember he had the means to stop being hit. I also pointed out that under similar circumstances, if I was carrying, and the events unfolded as they appear to have, that I would have killed Martin. I would have shot someone under the same situation, if I was held to the ground, being hit, and had no other means of stopping it.

As for a choice? How many of us make rational decisions under intense pressure?

I don't think Trayvon acted irrationally. He saw that he was being followed by a stranger, he was frightened. The stranger approached him with a gun in his waistband in plain sight. I'd fight for my life too.

Zimmerman acted irrationally with his history of domestic violence and assualting police officers and calling 911 to report children playing? This dude has some identity crisis issues too. Only hispanic in a family full of caucasians, its obvious he's not happy with himself or his life.

[Wild Cobra]

It says it was taken at the scene of the crime, you damn loon.
You missed a rare one. Bouton's actually conceded his initial statement with the one you responded to.

If it were fresh blood, ok.

[Blake]

As for a choice? How many of us make rational decisions under intense pressure?

Zimmerman made the choice to take a loaded gun and follow a kid in a hoodie instead of calling the police and just getting out of the way.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Quote: Alan Dershowitz previously posted

Unethical is just ad hominem. I looking for someone with legal expertise that says that the state REQUIRES that for a PC affidavit ie whether or not its legal. TheProfessor professed to be prosecutor and he says that was not the case.

I don't deign to know.

[Wild Cobra]

I don't think Trayvon acted irrationally. He saw that he was being followed by a stranger, he was frightened. The stranger approached him with a gun in his waistband in plain sight. I'd fight for my life too.

There was never any evidence the gun was on display, and please tell me how you expect to keep that model of a gun in his waistband, and visible, without falling out. It's a small gun.


Zimmerman acted irrationally with his history of domestic violence and assualting police officers and calling 911 to report children playing? This dude has some identity crisis issues too. Only hispanic in a family full of caucasians, its obvious he's not happy with himself or his life.

Well, accounts differ. Didn't we just read one that shows Zimmerman was the defendant rather than aggressor in the account with the woman? That there is record he is the one who filed something like a restraint order request? I forget what it was called on the article. Then with police very often being over aggressive, it makes sense the charges were dropped on that one. People who know him claim he is neither racist or aggressive.

I see no evidence that he was the perp.

martin however...

Did you go over the released internet accounts he had? What his friends have said and gave him props for? One of the props was his confrontation with a bus driver, which some say is really why he was suspended.

Sorry...

The evidence we are privy to so far shows Zimmerman innocent, and Martin the aggressor.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Try to keep up, fuzzy.

Keep up with what?

It looks like the same cut he had in the shitty video except the blood smears hadn't been cleaned up. I am waiting for the part where this is evidence of something new.

Cuts really do bleed: News at 5, Fair and Balanced!

[Wild Cobra]

Zimmerman made the choice to take a loaded gun and follow a kid in a hoodie instead of calling the police and just getting out of the way.
Should you go to jail ever time you make a bad choice?

The choice was legal. just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's illegal.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I don't think Trayvon acted irrationally. He saw that he was being followed by a stranger, he was frightened. The stranger approached him with a gun in his waistband in plain sight. I'd fight for my life too.

Zimmerman acted irrationally with his history of domestic violence and assualting police officers and calling 911 to report children playing? This dude has some identity crisis issues too. Only hispanic in a family full of caucasians, its obvious he's not happy with himself or his life.

You'd "fight for your life" if a stranger had a gun in his waistband????
You, uh, wouldn't just get the hell out of there?

This is what doesn't add up to me. If Zimmerman had his gun pointed at him, why would Trayvon even engage? Who here would confront someone with a gun pointed at them?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You'd "fight for your life" if a stranger had a gun in his waistband????
You, uh, wouldn't just get the hell out of there?

This is what doesn't add up to me. If Zimmerman had his gun pointed at him, why would Trayvon even engage? Who here would confront someone with a gun pointed at them?

http://www.your-krav-maga-expert.com/Gun-defense.html

[GSH]

Thus my question is how does this picture changes anything, since the prior video was already public knowledge?

Apparently you don't understand that when the prosecutor submits an affidavit, it's in lieu of a grand jury indictment. Bypassing a grand jury is no small thing. And when it is done, the judge reviews the evidence submitted by the prosecutor, and decides whether the case has sufficient merit to proceed. If the prosecutor leaves out exculpatory evidence, it makes it impossible for the judge to perform that function. "Public knowledge" is bullshit, when it comes to court cases. You can't presume that the judge is aware of some piece of evidence, and so decide not to include it in the affidavit.

Put it this way - suppose you put the defense attorney in charge. Would it be okay with you if he conveniently "forgot" to provide the judge with any of the evidence against the defendant? That's too stupid to even consider. Well... the prosecutor can't just send anyone he wants to trial. He has to have sufficient evidence, which includes consideration of evidence that might lead to acquittal. (Like, say, the guy was out of town when it happened.)

If this prosecutor really omitted exculpatory evidence, even before the trial starts, it's just what Dershowitz claims - it's beyond immoral. And it starts to look a lot like the Duke Lacrosse team.

I don't know if Zimmerman is guilty or innocent. But if the prosecutor really withheld evidence, he's already guilty. And there's no gray area on that.

[clambake]

he's probably said stuff like "i'm tired of these guys committing crimes."

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Keep up with what?

It looks like the same cut he had in the shitty video except the blood smears hadn't been cleaned up. I am waiting for the part where this is evidence of something new.

Cuts really do bleed: News at 5, Fair and Balanced!

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5806600&postcount=2568



And why are you waiting to see if its new evidence. It says it was taken at the scene of the crime, soooooooooo...........

[GSH]

http://www.your-krav-maga-expert.com/Gun-defense.html

http://www.dead-krav-maga-expert/dumbshit.htm


Just out of curiosity - are you suggesting that Trayvon was a krav maga expert? Becuase that would be really stupid.

But then, if you aren't saying that, then your link is really stupid.

Either way, you never fail to disappoint.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Apparently you don't understand that when the prosecutor submits an affidavit, it's in lieu of a grand jury indictment. Bypassing a grand jury is no small thing. And when it is done, the judge reviews the evidence submitted by the prosecutor, and decides whether the case has sufficient merit to proceed. If the prosecutor leaves out exculpatory evidence, it makes it impossible for the judge to perform that function. "Public knowledge" is bullshit, when it comes to court cases. You can't presume that the judge is aware of some piece of evidence, and so decide not to include it in the affidavit.

Put it this way - suppose you put the defense attorney in charge. Would it be okay with you if he conveniently "forgot" to provide the judge with any of the evidence against the defendant? That's too stupid to even consider. Well... the prosecutor can't just send anyone he wants to trial. He has to have sufficient evidence, which includes consideration of evidence that might lead to acquittal. (Like, say, the guy was out of town when it happened.)

If this prosecutor really omitted exculpatory evidence, even before the trial starts, it's just what Dershowitz claims - it's beyond immoral. And it starts to look a lot like the Duke Lacrosse team.

I don't know if Zimmerman is guilty or innocent. But if the prosecutor really withheld evidence, he's already guilty. And there's no gray area on that.

Thanks counselor but it was shown earlier that its typical in Florida to bypass the GJ, unless its a capital crime which this isn't. thanks for talking out of your ass though.

Nice linking this prosecutor with one that got disbarred. that was nice that defamation of character there.

You may not know but you clearly have a side.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

http://www.your-krav-maga-expert.com/Gun-defense.html

Ah, so Zimmerman was pointing the gun at Trayvon's head. Interesting. Now that's new

[Trill Clinton]

You'd "fight for your life" if a stranger had a gun in his waistband????
You, uh, wouldn't just get the hell out of there?

This is what doesn't add up to me. If Zimmerman had his gun pointed at him, why would Trayvon even engage? Who here would confront someone with a gun pointed at them?

what sense does that make? I turn to run, I get shot in the back. Have you seen how Ricky died?

If I'm gonna die, I'm going to fight for my life. You mean to tell me you would try to talk it out or run?

and he didn't have the gun pointed at him when he approached but it was on his person in plain sight.

[Wild Cobra]

http://www.dead-krav-maga-expert/dumbshit.htm


Just out of curiosity - are you suggesting that Trayvon was a krav maga expert? Becuase that would be really stupid.

But then, if you aren't saying that, then your link is really stupid.

Either way, you never fail to disappoint.
LOL....

No shit.

Fuzzy logic strikes again...

LOL...

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Either way, you never fail to disappoint.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

http://www.dead-krav-maga-expert/dumbshit.htm


Just out of curiosity - are you suggesting that Trayvon was a krav maga expert? Becuase that would be really stupid.

But then, if you aren't saying that, then your link is really stupid.

Either way, you never fail to disappoint.

So if you think someone is about to shoot you that you think the wise choice is to just sit there and do nothing? All the link I linked stated was that only try and defend yourself like that if you think they are going to shoot you.

Yeah and the martial art taught to military and law enforcement agencies around the world is stupid.

Thanks, counselor.

[GSH]

Thanks counselor but it was shown earlier that its typical in Florida to bypass the GJ, unless its a capital crime which this isn't. thanks for talking out of your ass though.

Nice linking this prosecutor with one that got disbarred. that was nice that defamation of character there.

You may not know but you clearly have a side.

You can be an ignorant fuck all you want. It's not "typical" to bypass the grand jury, although it is done. Words have meaning, dumbshit. And "typical" doesn't even come close, here.

And, yes, it is MANDATORY for the prosecutor to include ALL exculpatory evidence in an affidavit. And, yes, the prosecutor in the Duke Lacrosse debacle withheld exculpatory evidence. And it's not defamation, since I said "if" this prosecutor did that. We don't know.

That's your problem - you make shit up. Well... that's one of your problems.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

what sense does that make? I turn to run, I get shot in the back. Have you seen how Ricky died?

If I'm gonna die, I'm going to fight for my life. You mean to tell me you would try to talk it out or run?

and he didn't have the gun pointed at him when he approached but it was on his person in plain sight.

So a gun in the waistband in plain sight makes you wet your pants? Just curious here, but how far away was Trayvon away when he saw this gun in his waistband in plain sight? I'm even more curious if Trayvon even knew if he had a gun.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ah, so Zimmerman was pointing the gun at Trayvon's head. Interesting. Now that's new

I have no idea but there are circumstances in which it makes perfectly good sense to try to fight someone with a gun. Those are just various techniques depending on where and how the assailant is holding the weapon.

You guys are just discounting that idea out of hand and I am just pointing out that not to be the case.

if you think someone is going to shoot you and you cannot get away the obvious choice is to fight.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

So if you think someone is about to shoot you that you think the wise choice is to just sit there and do nothing? All the link I linked stated was that only try and defend yourself like that if you think they are going to shoot you.

Yeah and the martial art taught to military and law enforcement agencies around the world is stupid.

Thanks, counselor.

Was a gun drawn to make Trayvon engage?

[GSH]

So if you think someone is about to shoot you that you think the wise choice is to just sit there and do nothing? All the link I linked stated was that only try and defend yourself like that if you think they are going to shoot you.

Yeah and the martial art taught to military and law enforcement agencies around the world is stupid.

Thanks, counselor.


That's too fucking stupid to even comment on. If Zimmerman really wanted to shoot the kid, he wouldn't have any blood on the back of his head. Even Chuck Norris couldn't have prevented that, dumbass.

[Trill Clinton]

So a gun in the waistband in plain sight makes you wet your pants? Just curious here, but how far away was Trayvon away when he saw this gun in his waistband in plain sight? I'm even more curious if Trayvon even knew if he had a gun.

smh...if a stranger approached me at night time while I'm alone and I see a gun on him, my first instinct is to protect myself not run.

[Yonivore]

So a gun in the waistband in plain sight makes you wet your pants? Just curious here, but how far away was Trayvon away when he saw this gun in his waistband in plain sight? I'm even more curious if Trayvon even knew if he had a gun.
As far as I know, there's been nothing said about whether or not the gun was visible. If Florida's CHL laws are similar to Texas, the gun is supposed to be concealed -- hence the "C" in CHL.

We don't know when Zimmerman first drew his weapon but, by all indications, so far, it wasn't until the moment before he shot Martin.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I have no idea b...

Thank you

[Blake]

Should you go to jail ever time you make a bad choice?

The choice was legal. just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's illegal.

I think the law in this case is crap.

[ElNono]

I guess my question can be rephrased as:

Why wasn't Alan Dershowitz all over the "perjury by exclusion" claim when the affidavit appeared? The picture merely reaffirms what was already known by the police video.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You can be an ignorant fuck all you want. It's not "typical" to bypass the grand jury, although it is done. Words have meaning, dumbshit. And "typical" doesn't even come close, here.

And, yes, it is MANDATORY for the prosecutor to include ALL exculpatory evidence in an affidavit. And, yes, the prosecutor in the Duke Lacrosse debacle withheld exculpatory evidence. And it's not defamation, since I said "if" this prosecutor did that. We don't know.

That's your problem - you make shit up. Well... that's one of your problems.

http://www.south-floridaattorney.com/criminal-defense/when-is-a-grand-jury-trial-necessary-in-florida/

You going to apologize, counselor?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That's too fucking stupid to even comment on. If Zimmerman really wanted to shoot the kid, he wouldn't have any blood on the back of his head. Even Chuck Norris couldn't have prevented that, dumbass.

You're right. Never in the history of man has a person subdued someone with a gun.

Your anger is adorable though.

[Trill Clinton]

and why would Trayvon run? if he did zimmerman probably would have unloaded the entire clip in him. Trayvon was destined to die that night no matter what.

[Wild Cobra]

You can be an ignorant fuck all you want. It's not "typical" to bypass the grand jury, although it is done. Words have meaning, dumbshit. And "typical" doesn't even come close, here.

And, yes, it is MANDATORY for the prosecutor to include ALL exculpatory evidence in an affidavit. And, yes, the prosecutor in the Duke Lacrosse debacle withheld exculpatory evidence. And it's not defamation, since I said "if" this prosecutor did that. We don't know.

That's your problem - you make shit up. Well... that's one of your problems.
I hope you have better luck with that fuzzbot than I have.

[Yonivore]

smh...if a stranger approached me at night time while I'm alone and I see a gun on him, my first instinct is to protect myself not run.
But, according to the 911 call, he did run.

The question needs to be, when did he stop and allow Zimmerman to catch up with him because, there's no evidence in the 911 call that Zimmerman was trying to catch Martin. I listened and I can tell you, he isn't in a full run -- maybe a fast walk or jog.

But, after the dispatcher says "you don't need to do that," even the impression he's walking fast stops.

Those are my impressions. But, in any case, there's no indication that Zimmerman had his gun out or even exposed until the moment he shot Martin and, there's no indication Zimmerman continued to follow/pursue Martin. At least, no more evidence than there is that Martin came back to Zimmerman.

After all, we know they ended up in an encounter so, one or the other has to be true.

A third option is that they accidentally encountered each other, unexpectedly after both figured the incident was over and relaxed.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I guess my question can be rephrased as:

Why wasn't Alan Dershowitz all over the "perjury by exclusion" claim when the affidavit appeared? The picture merely reaffirms what was already known by the police video.

And the police report which Yoni was nice enough to link for us.

[Yonivore]

and why would Trayvon run? if he did zimmerman probably would have unloaded the entire clip in him. Trayvon was destined to die that night no matter what.
Again, he did run and that didn't happen.

[Wild Cobra]

I think the law in this case is crap.
That doesn't mean Zimmerman committed an illegal act.

[Trill Clinton]

But, according to the 911 call, he did run.

The question needs to be, when did he stop and allow Zimmerman to catch up with him because, there's no evidence in the 911 call that Zimmerman was trying to catch Martin. I listened and I can tell you, he isn't in a full run -- maybe a fast walk or jog.

But, after the dispatcher says "you don't need to do that," even the impression he's walking fast stops.

Those are my impressions. But, in any case, there's no indication that Zimmerman had his gun out or even exposed until the moment he shot Martin and, there's no indication Zimmerman continued to follow/pursue Martin. At least, no more evidence than there is that Martin came back to Zimmerman.

After all, we know they ended up in an encounter so, one or the other has to be true.

A third option is that they accidentally encountered each other, unexpectedly after both figured the incident was over and relaxed.

He didn't run when they were face to face. He ran when he saw zimmerman from a distance.

I'm inclined to believe that if Trayvon would have taken off running when they stood toe to toe, he would have gotten shot in the back multiple times.

[Yonivore]

I think the law in this case is crap.
Why?

And, I disagree with Wild Cobra that Zimmerman necessarily made any back choices.

George Zimmerman observed a suspicious person in a neighborhood experience a rash of property crimes. He reported the suspicious person and worked to keep him in sight until police arrived.

The only bad choice after that would be if Zimmerman is the one that provoked Martin when they finally encountered one another and there's no evidence to support that.

If it went down the way I have suggested, Zimmerman did nothing wrong.

He was legally carrying a weapon.

He was legally in the community.

He was justifiably concerned about the suspicious person (walking through the neighborhood in the rain and seeming to be looking at houses).

And, if Martin was banging his head against the sidewalk to the point he feared for his life or thought he might suffer serious injury, it was the right choice to end the assault by shooting Martin.

I think it was unfortunate. I think it was a tragedy. I think Zimmerman regrets the outcome and probably even wishes he'd never seen Trayvon Martin walking down the sidewalk that evening. But, I don't think the choices Zimmerman made were bad.

[Blake]

That doesn't mean Zimmerman committed an illegal act.

your legal prowess is stunningly brilliant

[TheMACHINE]

Why?

And, I disagree with Wild Cobra that Zimmerman necessarily made any back choices.

George Zimmerman observed a suspicious person in a neighborhood experience a rash of property crimes. He reported the suspicious person and worked to keep him in sight until police arrived.

The only bad choice after that would be if Zimmerman is the one that provoked Martin when they finally encountered one another and there's no evidence to support that.

If it went down the way I have suggested, Zimmerman did nothing wrong.

He was legally carrying a weapon.

He was legally in the community.

He was justifiably concerned about the suspicious person (walking through the neighborhood in the rain and seeming to be looking at houses).

And, if Martin was banging his head against the sidewalk to the point he feared for his life or thought he might suffer serious injury, it was the right choice to end the assault by shooting Martin.

I think it was unfortunate. I think it was a tragedy. I think Zimmerman regrets the outcome and probably even wishes he'd never seen Trayvon Martin walking down the sidewalk that evening. But, I don't think the choices Zimmerman made were bad.

this...i have every right to check out a suspicious guy ESPECIALLY if im part of neighborhood watch.

[Yonivore]

He didn't run when they were face to face. He ran when he saw zimmerman from a distance.
So, how did Zimmerman catch up with him while talking on the phone with police?


I'm inclined to believe that if Trayvon would have taken off running when they stood toe to toe, he would have gotten shot in the back multiple times.
Based on what are you inclined to believe that? And, how did they get to a position of standing toe-to-toe to begin with? Martin took off running while Zimmerman was still at he vehicle talking on the phone. There is no indication in the call that Zimmerman ever saw Martin again after he lost sight of him.

When did he catch up with him?

[Yonivore]

this...i have every right to check out a suspicious guy ESPECIALLY if im part of neighborhood watch.
You don't even have to be a part of neighborhood watch.

If I saw a suspicious person, I didn't recognize, walking around my neighborhood and we had been experiencing a rash of burglaries. I would have done precisely what George Zimmerman did.

[Wild Cobra]

You don't even have to be a part of neighborhood watch.

If I saw a suspicious person, I didn't recognize, walking around my neighborhood and we had been experiencing a rash of burglaries. I would have done precisely what George Zimmerman did.
Ditto.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Well it appears VlE has gone and GSH isn't going to apologize. that coupled with people trying to argue the case with supposition and no new facts I am bowing out of this thread for now.

Have fun guys. i just don't like making up bullshit in cases like this.

[Blake]

He was justifiably concerned about the suspicious person (walking through the neighborhood in the rain and seeming to be looking at houses).



He's got a hoodie! Where's my gun!?!

[TheMACHINE]

and why would Trayvon run? if he did zimmerman probably would have unloaded the entire clip in him. Trayvon was destined to die that night no matter what.

If that was the case, id assume zimmerman would have just unloaded a clip before even an altercation.

[TheMACHINE]

You don't even have to be a part of neighborhood watch.

If I saw a suspicious person, I didn't recognize, walking around my neighborhood and we had been experiencing a rash of burglaries. I would have done precisely what George Zimmerman did.

and has every right too.

[Trill Clinton]

So, how did Zimmerman catch up with him while talking on the phone with police?


Based on what are you inclined to believe that? And, how did they get to a position of standing toe-to-toe to begin with? Martin took off running while Zimmerman was still at he vehicle talking on the phone. There is no indication in the call that Zimmerman ever saw Martin again after he lost sight of him.

When did he catch up with him?


why wouldn't he be able to catch up, he was in his daddie's truck.

His history of violence on his own wife and law enforcement. THis dude fought a cop, doesn't listen to 911 operators, he has no regard for the law.

They began to stand toe to toe because zimmerman drove down the block, followed him then approached him, trayvon fought for his life and zimmerman murdered him.

How long was that phone call?

[Blake]

If I saw a suspicious person, I didn't recognize, walking around my neighborhood and we had been experiencing a rash of burglaries. I would have done precisely what George Zimmerman did.

Of course you would have. We have come to expect nothing less from you.

[clambake]

Why?

And, I disagree with Wild Cobra that Zimmerman necessarily made any back choices.

George Zimmerman observed a suspicious person in a neighborhood experience a rash of property crimes. He reported the suspicious person and worked to keep him in sight until police arrived.

The only bad choice after that would be if Zimmerman is the one that provoked Martin when they finally encountered one another and there's no evidence to support that.

If it went down the way I have suggested, Zimmerman did nothing wrong.

He was legally carrying a weapon.

He was legally in the community.

He was justifiably concerned about the suspicious person (walking through the neighborhood in the rain and seeming to be looking at houses).

And, if Martin was banging his head against the sidewalk to the point he feared for his life or thought he might suffer serious injury, it was the right choice to end the assault by shooting Martin.

I think it was unfortunate. I think it was a tragedy. I think Zimmerman regrets the outcome and probably even wishes he'd never seen Trayvon Martin walking down the sidewalk that evening. But, I don't think the choices Zimmerman made were bad.

so...sounds like you just said that george profiled the kid.

[Trill Clinton]

If that was the case, id assume zimmerman would have just unloaded a clip before even an altercation.

he needed a reason to use his gun first and he got it. he didn't bring his gun out that night for show n tell.

and he was a self appointed neighborhood watchmen, the neighbors did not appoint him.

[cantthinkofanything]

He didn't run when they were face to face. He ran when he saw zimmerman from a distance.

I'm inclined to believe that if Trayvon would have taken off running when they stood toe to toe, he would have gotten shot in the back multiple times.

So you go from saying Zimmerman went after Travon knowing that he was going to shoot him knowing the self defense law worked in his favor. So he would be smart enough to know that but then dumb enough to shoot Travon in the back? Bullshit.

[CosmicCowboy]

So you go from saying Zimmerman went after Travon knowing that he was going to shoot him knowing the self defense law worked in his favor. So he would be smart enough to know that but then dumb enough to shoot Travon in the back? Bullshit.

You're just feeding the troll. He's an idiot.

[ElNono]

this...i have every right to check out a suspicious guy ESPECIALLY if im part of neighborhood watch.

Turn it around. If you're unarmed and living in a neighborhood with a rash of burglaries, and an unknown guy carrying a weapon starts following you, what do you do? What would you think that guys is?

[CosmicCowboy]

Turn it around. If you're unarmed and living in a neighborhood with a rash of burglaries, and an unknown guy carrying a weapon starts following you, what do you do? What would you think that guys is?

A reasonable person would haul ass and avoid (especially a young healthy athlete like Martin) Zimmerman and call 911 instead of confronting him and sucker punching him. Mistakes were made on both sides. One of them ended up dead. Shit happens.

[Trill Clinton]

So you go from saying Zimmerman went after Travon knowing that he was going to shoot him knowing the self defense law worked in his favor. So he would be smart enough to know that but then dumb enough to shoot Travon in the back? Bullshit.

yup, why is it so hard to not believe he had murder on his mind when he saw trayvon?

[DarrinS]

Anyone watch the video of the bail hearing?


Z apologized to the family, which really seemed to infuriate the prosecutor.

I also found it odd that the prosecutor said, on several occastions "On the date you comitted this crime..." and the defense counsel didn't say squat. Bizarre.

[Wild Cobra]

so...sounds like you just said that george profiled the kid.
Oh My God...

That's where we went wrong...

We aren't being politically correct about the shooting.

[Trill Clinton]

You're just feeding the troll. He's an idiot.

you have your opinion on what when down as do I. fuck you.

[Wild Cobra]

Anyone watch the video of the bail hearing?


Z apologized to the family, which really seemed to infuriate the prosecutor.

I also found it odd that the prosecutor said, on several occastions "On the date you comitted this crime..." and the defense counsel didn't say squat. Bizarre.
Maybe the defense council was too shocked by the stupidity of the statement. Maybe the defense knew it was so stupid he didn't need to remind the judge.

Either way, it wasn't a jury trial. Just a hearing.

[Yonivore]

He's got a hoodie! Where's my gun!?!
You're not helping make your case.

Zimmerman said he was suspicious because he was walking around looking at houses, in the rain, and he looked like he was on drugs or something.

The word hoodie didn't come out of Zimmerman's mouth until he was asked about clothing.

The word black didn't come out of Zimmerman's mouth until he was asked what race the person was.

[Wild Cobra]

he needed a reason to use his gun first and he got it. he didn't bring his gun out that night for show n tell.

and he was a self appointed neighborhood watchmen, the neighbors did not appoint him.
Then doesn't it seem kind of stupid to call the police, when if he knew there would be no witnesses, he could just shoot, and disappear?

Make it an unsolved crime?

For your hypothesis to work, he had to rely on no eye witnesses.

[Wild Cobra]

Turn it around. If you're unarmed and living in a neighborhood with a rash of burglaries, and an unknown guy carrying a weapon starts following you, what do you do? What would you think that guys is?
A criminal, and instead of confronting him, get out of the way and call the police.

[cantthinkofanything]

Then doesn't it seem kind of stupid to call the police, when if he knew there would be no witnesses, he could just shoot, and disappear?

Make it an unsolved crime?

For your hypothesis to work, he had to rely on no eye witnesses.

Really good point. Trill is saying that he came out that night with murder on his mind. He'll also say that he called the cops and set the whole thing up knowing that he could use the self defense excuse. But also that if Trayvon ran, he would have shot him in the back anyway.

[ElNono]

A reasonable person would haul ass and avoid (especially a young healthy athlete like Martin) Zimmerman and call 911 instead of confronting him and sucker punching him. Mistakes were made on both sides. One of them ended up dead. Shit happens.

But that's the point. You could just as simply argue Martin "stood his ground". I'm not saying there were no mistakes on either side, but it's a lot easier to think about a situation like that in front of your keyboard than in the heat of the moment.

[Blake]

You're not helping make your case.

Zimmerman said he was suspicious because he was walking around looking at houses, in the rain, and he looked like he was on drugs or something.

The word hoodie didn't come out of Zimmerman's mouth until he was asked about clothing.

The word black didn't come out of Zimmerman's mouth until he was asked what race the person was.


"There's someone walking around!

In the RAIN!!

Yoni get your gun!"

[ElNono]

A criminal, and instead of confronting him, get out of the way and call the police.

Maybe he thought he couldn't outrun him. "Stand your ground" apparently isn't such a good idea now.

[Trill Clinton]

Then doesn't it seem kind of stupid to call the police, when if he knew there would be no witnesses, he could just shoot, and disappear?

Make it an unsolved crime?

For your hypothesis to work, he had to rely on no eye witnesses.

people dont think rationally remember

[ElNono]

Anyone watch the video of the bail hearing?


Z apologized to the family, which really seemed to infuriate the prosecutor.

I also found it odd that the prosecutor said, on several occastions "On the date you comitted this crime..." and the defense counsel didn't say squat. Bizarre.

It's quite possible the defense won't talk until they get to the trial.

[Yonivore]

why wouldn't he be able to catch up, he was in his daddie's truck.
Well, if you were familiar with the neighborhood and where the shooting took place, when Zimmerman said, "shit! he's running." Zimmerman left his truck parked because Martin took off running away from the street and to an area that runs behind two rows of townhome -- where there isn't a vehicle access.


His history of violence on his own wife and law enforcement. THis dude fought a cop, doesn't listen to 911 operators, he has no regard for the law.
I haven't heard about the wife but the cop was in plain clothes and accosting a friend of his. Yeah, he copped an attitude and got arrested for it but, the charges were dismissed.

Tell me about the wife.


They began to stand toe to toe because zimmerman drove down the block, followed him then approached him, trayvon fought for his life and zimmerman murdered him.
Not even the investigators that wrote the affidavit are alleging that. There is zero evidence Zimmerman ever reentered his truck after he said, "shit! he's running," and started following.


How long was that phone call?
That's an important question. One of the transcripts I read I think showed it was over 4 minutes long and that it lasted another minute and a half after the "shit! he's running" comment.

I'll see if I can find that transcript again and verify.

The more important question -- and this can be verified by the time stamps on both the Zimmerman call and the girlfriend call -- is how long after Zimmerman hung up with police did the altercation occur. What time did the Zimmerman call end and what time did the girlfriend call get terminated because of the fight?

I'd like to know. I'm sure it'll be presented at trial.

My theory is the shorter the time difference, the more likely it is Martin returned to Zimmerman and confronted him. The longer the time span, the more possible it is Zimmerman continued his search for Martin after the call and confronted him.

But, another piece of evidence will also demonstrate this -- how long after the Zimmerman call ended did the police arrive at the scene. I've heard less than 3 minutes...which means the shooting happened no more than three minutes after the end of the call.

[Trill Clinton]

Really good point. Trill is saying that he came out that night with murder on his mind. He'll also say that he called the cops and set the whole thing up knowing that he could use the self defense excuse. But also that if Trayvon ran, he would have shot him in the back anyway.

sorry, should have said he had murder on his mind when he saw a black kid walking home in the rain.

[DarrinS]

Maybe he thought he couldn't outrun him. "Stand your ground" apparently isn't such a good idea now.


"Stand your ground" law may not even be an issue. IF what Z claims is true, and what evidence made public seems to suggest, that Z was getting his head pounded into the sidewalk, then it may be straight up self-defense.

[Yonivore]

yup, why is it so hard to not believe he had murder on his mind when he saw trayvon?
Because there's no evidence -- yet presented -- that he murdered Trayvon.

[Wild Cobra]

Maybe he thought he couldn't outrun him. "Stand your ground" apparently isn't such a good idea now.
LOL...

A 6'3" athletic football player thinking he can't outrun a older, slightly pudgy man of 5'9"?

LOL...

LOL...

LOL...

LOL...

That's good....

LOL...

LOL...

[Yonivore]

he needed a reason to use his gun first and he got it. he didn't bring his gun out that night for show n tell.
As a CHL licensee, I suspect he was armed more than he was not. That's the purpose of a CHL.


and he was a self appointed neighborhood watchmen, the neighbors did not appoint him.
It's enough for me that he was a resident of the neighborhood.

I seem to recall he wasn't on "patrol" but either headed out of the neighborhood or coming back in, when Trayvon caught his attention.

[Wild Cobra]

people dont think rationally remember
Are you implying that a passive unknown situation is as intense as an active attack situation?

[Trill Clinton]

Well, if you were familiar with the neighborhood and where the shooting took place, when Zimmerman said, "shit! he's running." Zimmerman left his truck parked because Martin took off running away from the street and to an area that runs behind two rows of townhome -- where there isn't a vehicle access.


I haven't heard about the wife but the cop was in plain clothes and accosting a friend of his. Yeah, he copped an attitude and got arrested for it but, the charges were dismissed.

Tell me about the wife.


Not even the investigators that wrote the affidavit are alleging that. There is zero evidence Zimmerman ever reentered his truck after he said, "shit! he's running," and started following.


That's an important question. One of the transcripts I read I think showed it was over 4 minutes long and that it lasted another minute and a half after the "shit! he's running" comment.

I'll see if I can find that transcript again and verify.

The more important question -- and this can be verified by the time stamps on both the Zimmerman call and the girlfriend call -- is how long after Zimmerman hung up with police did the altercation occur. What time did the Zimmerman call end and what time did the girlfriend call get terminated because of the fight?

I'd like to know. I'm sure it'll be presented at trial.

My theory is the shorter the time difference, the more likely it is Martin returned to Zimmerman and confronted him. The longer the time span, the more possible it is Zimmerman continued his search for Martin after the call and confronted him.

But, another piece of evidence will also demonstrate this -- how long after the Zimmerman call ended did the police arrive at the scene. I've heard less than 3 minutes...which means the shooting happened no more than three minutes after the end of the call.

my mistake, it was an ex-fiance. once again it comes into question, who was the aggressor...gotta give it to ol george, he's good at covering his ass

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-21/news/os-george-zimmerman-domestic-violence-20120321_1_petitions-documents-injunctions

[Wild Cobra]

Well, if you were familiar with the neighborhood and where the shooting took place, when Zimmerman said, "shit! he's running." Zimmerman left his truck parked because Martin took off running away from the street and to an area that runs behind two rows of townhome -- where there isn't a vehicle access.

You mean he didn't drive the truck through everyone's yards, pursuing Martin?

Geez...

By the sounds of these people, you would think he did.

[Blake]

LOL...

A 6'3" athletic football player thinking he can't outrun a older, slightly pudgy man of 5'9"?

LOL...

LOL...

LOL...

LOL...

That's good....

LOL...

LOL...

Nobody is faster than a bullet.

[Trill Clinton]

As a CHL licensee, I suspect he was armed more than he was not. That's the purpose of a CHL.


It's enough for me that he was a resident of the neighborhood.

I seem to recall he wasn't on "patrol" but either headed out of the neighborhood or coming back in, when Trayvon caught his attention.

Yea and up until the night in question he never saw any black teenage boys walking in the neighborhood at night. He finally spotted one and couldn't let him get away.

[Yonivore]

Anyone watch the video of the bail hearing?


Z apologized to the family, which really seemed to infuriate the prosecutor.

I also found it odd that the prosecutor said, on several occastions "On the date you comitted this crime..." and the defense counsel didn't say squat. Bizarre.
I heard the defense attorney, in an interview a while ago, say the reason Zimmerman took the stand was specifically to answer the questions Trayvon Martin's mother asked in that press conference -- when she was asked, "If you could ask George Zimmerman anything, what would you ask him."

He also wanted to apologize for being involved in the tragic loss of their son.

I think the Defense Attorney let the prosecutor make himself look like a badgering idiot because, it makes his client look more sympathetic. The judge had already said cross examination would be limited and they wouldn't be trying any of the facts in the case.

I don't think it harms Zimmerman at all.

[Wild Cobra]

The more important question -- and this can be verified by the time stamps on both the Zimmerman call and the girlfriend call -- is how long after Zimmerman hung up with police did the altercation occur. What time did the Zimmerman call end and what time did the girlfriend call get terminated because of the fight?

I'd like to know. I'm sure it'll be presented at trial.

I believe that time was reported as two minutes, but I'm not 100% certain.

[Creepn]

Then doesn't it seem kind of stupid to call the police, when if he knew there would be no witnesses, he could just shoot, and disappear?


Black people don't easily pick up the phone to call the police as with white people. Why? There are two different cultures and history in regards to the police that makes this so. Calling the police is a last resort type of thing for the black community.

[Wild Cobra]

"Stand your ground" law may not even be an issue. IF what Z claims is true, and what evidence made public seems to suggest, that Z was getting his head pounded into the sidewalk, then it may be straight up self-defense.
I'm pretty sure that's what they have claimed from the start.

[Trill Clinton]

Are you implying that a passive unknown situation is as intense as an active attack situation?

im implying that he has consitantly called 911 to report mainly african americans for various crimes. He had no luck in apprehending any of his so called suspects. that night he saw trayvon his adrenaline shot through the roof and all reasonable thinking went out of the window and he acted irrationally.

[Yonivore]

Yea and up until the night in question he never saw any black teenage boys walking in the neighborhood at night. He finally spotted one and couldn't let him get away.
I think he had called 911/311 over 40 times in the previous few months.

How many of those were about suspicious persons? I don't know.

How many of those were instances where Zimmerman was compelled to follow someone? I don't know.

I'm sure that, too, will be discussed at trial.

[CosmicCowboy]

Black people don't easily pick up the phone to call the police as with white people. Why? There are two different cultures and history in regards to the police that makes this so. Calling the police is a last resort type of thing for the black community.

Could be a good reason a lot of them end up dead, too.

[TheMACHINE]

Turn it around. If you're unarmed and living in a neighborhood with a rash of burglaries, and an unknown guy carrying a weapon starts following you, what do you do? What would you think that guys is?

run.

I dont think "stand your ground" works in Martins case especially if you say he is getting followed by a man with a weapon. He hasnt got attacked yet, there was no altercation at the time. Stand your ground states you can use force if you "did not provoke the assault, and had at the time reasonable grounds to believe, and in good faith believed, that the deceased intended to take his life, or do him great bodily harm..."

Thats what we do not know as of yet. But for now, the story is that Trayvon provoked it....so thats what's gonna be argued.

[Wild Cobra]

Black people don't easily pick up the phone to call the police as with white people. Why? There are two different cultures and history in regards to the police that makes this so. Calling the police is a last resort type of thing for the black community.
Is that the same culture that has so many more incidents of black related crime?

[Creepn]

Could be a good reason a lot of them end up dead, too.

A lot of them by police hands.

[Creepn]

Is that the same culture that has so many more incidents of black related crime?

No, not the same culture. It's the culture that many innocent blacks gets harrassed, beaten,and/or killed by police.

[Wild Cobra]

im implying that he has consitantly called 911 to report mainly african americans for various crimes. He had no luck in apprehending any of his so called suspects. that night he saw trayvon his adrenaline shot through the roof and all reasonable thinking went out of the window and he acted irrationally.
Do you realize that you have said inaccurate information twice, in your first sentence?

Zimmerman has primarily called the non-emergency police line in most cases, including that night. Not 911.

If you read the police incidents on the internet, you cannot substantiate you claim of race. the record clearly shows you are wrong.

What reverse racist crap are you listening to?

[TheMACHINE]

i bet we're gonna hear that Trayvon is linked to some of those past burglaries in a few weeks. lol

[Wild Cobra]

i bet we're gonna hear that Trayvon is linked to some of those past burglaries in a few weeks. lol

I already passed along the random thought that I wondered if the dates of the burglaries would coincide with the visits to his father.

[Trill Clinton]

I think he had called 911/311 over 40 times in the previous few months.

How many of those were about suspicious persons? I don't know.

How many of those were instances where Zimmerman was compelled to follow someone? I don't know.

I'm sure that, too, will be discussed at trial.

did some quick searching and 9 of those calls were for suspicious persons. would love to know what race those suspicious persons were.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249/trayvon-martin-shooter-a-habitual.html

but I would like to know the answers to your questions as well

[Creepn]

Do you realize that you have said inaccurate information twice, in your first sentence?

Zimmerman has primarily called the non-emergency police line in most cases, including that night. Not 911.

If you read the police incidents on the internet, you cannot substantiate you claim of race. the record clearly shows you are wrong.

What reverse racist crap are you listening to?

lol Please. You seriously trying to say that Zimmerman did not recognize that Martin was black? lmao. His skin color is what made Zimmerman suspicious of him in the first place!

[Trill Clinton]

Is that the same culture that has so many more incidents of black related crime?

yup and that is a whole nother thread:wakeup

[Creepn]

did some quick searching and 9 of those calls were for suspicious persons. would love to know what race those suspicious persons were.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249/trayvon-martin-shooter-a-habitual.html

but I would like to know the answers to your questions as well

They were black.

[Wild Cobra]

lol Please. You seriously trying to say that Zimmerman did not recognize that Martin was black? lmao. His skin color is what made Zimmerman suspicious of him in the first place!
What a prejudicial assumption you make.

Please show me in the record where he only called about suspicious black people. You can't. Do you have any idea how many were white? I challenge you to read the online police reports available for yourself to see.

[Trill Clinton]

Do you realize that you have said inaccurate information twice, in your first sentence?

Zimmerman has primarily called the non-emergency police line in most cases, including that night. Not 911.

If you read the police incidents on the internet, you cannot substantiate you claim of race. the record clearly shows you are wrong.

What reverse racist crap are you listening to?

the link I provided states he called the police 46 times in that span of time. whether is 911, non-emergency, police, law enforcement will likely be the ones to respond.

[cantthinkofanything]

They were black.

You are by far my favorite of the fake black trolls.

[Trill Clinton]

now we're painting Trayvon as a burgler? smh lol

[Trill Clinton]

They were black.

of course....those damn negroes!:nope

[TheMACHINE]

now we're painting Trayvon as a burgler? smh lol

should we just paint him as some 13 year old kid like in the pictures that were released?

[Wild Cobra]

the link I provided states he called the police 46 times in that span of time. whether is 911, non-emergency, police, law enforcement will likely be the ones to respond.
46 times since 2004.

Doesn't seem excessive to me, in communities with a high burglary rate, by someone concerned.

[Creepn]

What a prejudicial assumption you make.

Please show me in the record where he only called about suspicious black people. You can't. Do you have any idea how many were white? I challenge you to read the online police reports available for yourself to see.


According to neighbors, Zimmerman was “fixated on crime and focused on young, black males.

[Wild Cobra]

I actually opened the 47 page PDF with the 46 incidents and read it.

Have you?

[Trill Clinton]

should we just paint him as some 13 year old kid like in the pictures that were released?

no. there are photos of him with gold teeth and throwing up the middle finger too, typical teenage stuff. but you go ahead and suggest that he committed some of those crimes, its cool.

[Trill Clinton]

46 times since 2004.

Doesn't seem excessive to me, in communities with a high burglary rate, by someone concerned.

if he was that concerned why not move? dont people move out the neighborhood when the black families roll in?

[Wild Cobra]

According to neighbors, Zimmerman was “fixated on crime and focused on young, black males.
You can also find people who say we never went to the moon.

Most people who have talked to the media about Zimmerman would probably laugh at that claim.

[Creepn]

I actually opened the 47 page PDF with the 46 incidents and read it.

Have you?

46. Feb. 26, 2012 – 7:20 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Repeats prior report


45. Feb. 26, 2012 (night of Martin shooting) – 7:11 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Black male “late teens lsw dark gray hoodie jeans or sweatpants walking around area” … “subj now running towards back entrance of complex”


44. Feb. 2, 2012 – 8:29 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: “BM lsw: black leather jacket, black hat, printed PJ pants, he keeps going going to this” location


43. Jan. 29, 2012 – 5:38 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Children “running and playing in the street”



Orange County Jail / Miami Herald / AP Photos



42. Dec. 10, 2011 – 5:29 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Disturbance
Report: “At the club house” … “Male subject [arrived on scene] that thought he was employed by” Zimmerman … “Subj is expected to get paid for serving food.” … Zimmerman “said that he didn’t wish him to serve at the [event]” … Zimmerman “hired someone else, subj sounded upset and wants to get paid”


41. Oct. 1, 2011 – 12:53 a.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Two black male suspects “20–30 YOA in [white] Chevy poss Impala at the gate of the community.” Zimmerman “does not recognize subjs or veh and is concerned due to recent” burglaries in the area


40. Sept. 23, 2011 – 11:08 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Neighbor/Suspicious activity
Report: Zimmerman reports “open garage door” … Describes “neighborhood watch mtg last night with Sgt Herx who [advised] to report anything [suspicious]” … Zimmerman “is part of neighborhood watch” and is concerned because of recent burglaries in the area


39. Aug. 6, 2011 – 10:20 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Two black males, one wearing a black tank top and black shorts, the second wearing a black t-shirt and jeans … “Subjs are in their teens”


38. Aug. 3, 2011 – 6:45 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Black male last seen wearing a white tank top and black shorts … Zimmerman “believes subject is involved in recent” burglaries in the neighborhood


37. May 27, 2011 – 9:18 a.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Alarm
Report: Zimmerman “has a self responding alarm that just notified him of” an alarm at this location


36. April 22, 2011 – 7:09 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Juvenile black male “apprx 7–9” years old, four feet tall “skinny build short blk hair” last seen wearing a blue t-shirt and blue shorts


35. March 18, 2011 – 9:26 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Animals
Report: Zimmerman requested an officer meet him regarding a pit bull in his garage


34. Nov. 26, 2010 – 2:54 a.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Alarm
Report: Zimmerman was out of town and a motion alarm he monitors himself went off


33. Nov. 8, 2010 – 6:54 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Maintenance
Report: Zimmerman reports “trash in roadwy”


32. Oct. 2, 2010 – 1:55 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Zimmerman reports “blu jeep grand Cherokee female driver yelling at elderly passengers … windows are tinted” … “the veh was rocking back and forth and he could hear the female yelling”


31. June 26, 2010 – 11:00 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: “Loud party … approx 50 subjs & blocking the street”


30. June 12, 2010 – 11:13 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Subject “at the clubhouse & pool areas having a party”


29. April 28, 2010 – 9:02 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Disturbance
Report: “White older model four-door Buick or Oldsmobile” obstructing road


28. Feb. 27, 2010 – 4:46 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: “Residence w/a lot of [suspicious] activity” … “multiple vehs are constantly coming to the” location … “unk subs run out to the vehs and run back inside” … “the subjs are always outside w/the garage open” … “the subjs hang out towards the st all night//ongoing problem”


27. Jan. 12, 2010 – 10:25 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Neighbor
Report: Open garage door … Zimmerman says “this is very unlike his neighbor” … “there is a lot of electronics in the resd and posb in the garage”


26. Jan. 1, 2010 – 4:34 a.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Zimmerman reports reckless driver in “purplish Ford Ranger single cab”

[Trill Clinton]

oh forgot, he was living with daddy and sleeping on the couch. the bum couldn't afford a place of his own.

[Wild Cobra]

if he was that concerned why not move? dont people move out the neighborhood when the black families roll in?
He did.

This was in three different communities since 2004. Seems that city is full of crime no matter where you go.

[Trill Clinton]

He did.

This was in three different communities since 2004. Seems that city is full of crime no matter where you go.


then why not move to another city. if I have to call LE 46 times in 8 years the its obvious its time for me to find another living arrangement. But that's just me, zimmerman obviously has some issues. I think a mental evaluation might need to be ordered as well.

[Creepn]

lots of calls on "suspicious" black males huh Wild Cobra?

[Wild Cobra]

46. Feb. 26, 2012 – 7:20 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Repeats prior report


45. Feb. 26, 2012 (night of Martin shooting) – 7:11 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Black male “late teens lsw dark gray hoodie jeans or sweatpants walking around area” … “subj now running towards back entrance of complex”


44. Feb. 2, 2012 – 8:29 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: “BM lsw: black leather jacket, black hat, printed PJ pants, he keeps going going to this” location


43. Jan. 29, 2012 – 5:38 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Children “running and playing in the street”



Orange County Jail / Miami Herald / AP Photos



42. Dec. 10, 2011 – 5:29 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Disturbance
Report: “At the club house” … “Male subject [arrived on scene] that thought he was employed by” Zimmerman … “Subj is expected to get paid for serving food.” … Zimmerman “said that he didn’t wish him to serve at the [event]” … Zimmerman “hired someone else, subj sounded upset and wants to get paid”


41. Oct. 1, 2011 – 12:53 a.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Two black male suspects “20–30 YOA in [white] Chevy poss Impala at the gate of the community.” Zimmerman “does not recognize subjs or veh and is concerned due to recent” burglaries in the area


40. Sept. 23, 2011 – 11:08 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Neighbor/Suspicious activity
Report: Zimmerman reports “open garage door” … Describes “neighborhood watch mtg last night with Sgt Herx who [advised] to report anything [suspicious]” … Zimmerman “is part of neighborhood watch” and is concerned because of recent burglaries in the area


39. Aug. 6, 2011 – 10:20 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Two black males, one wearing a black tank top and black shorts, the second wearing a black t-shirt and jeans … “Subjs are in their teens”


38. Aug. 3, 2011 – 6:45 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Black male last seen wearing a white tank top and black shorts … Zimmerman “believes subject is involved in recent” burglaries in the neighborhood


37. May 27, 2011 – 9:18 a.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Alarm
Report: Zimmerman “has a self responding alarm that just notified him of” an alarm at this location


36. April 22, 2011 – 7:09 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Juvenile black male “apprx 7–9” years old, four feet tall “skinny build short blk hair” last seen wearing a blue t-shirt and blue shorts


35. March 18, 2011 – 9:26 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Animals
Report: Zimmerman requested an officer meet him regarding a pit bull in his garage


34. Nov. 26, 2010 – 2:54 a.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Alarm
Report: Zimmerman was out of town and a motion alarm he monitors himself went off


33. Nov. 8, 2010 – 6:54 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Maintenance
Report: Zimmerman reports “trash in roadwy”


32. Oct. 2, 2010 – 1:55 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Zimmerman reports “blu jeep grand Cherokee female driver yelling at elderly passengers … windows are tinted” … “the veh was rocking back and forth and he could hear the female yelling”


31. June 26, 2010 – 11:00 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: “Loud party … approx 50 subjs & blocking the street”


30. June 12, 2010 – 11:13 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Subject “at the clubhouse & pool areas having a party”


29. April 28, 2010 – 9:02 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Disturbance
Report: “White older model four-door Buick or Oldsmobile” obstructing road


28. Feb. 27, 2010 – 4:46 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: “Residence w/a lot of [suspicious] activity” … “multiple vehs are constantly coming to the” location … “unk subs run out to the vehs and run back inside” … “the subjs are always outside w/the garage open” … “the subjs hang out towards the st all night//ongoing problem”


27. Jan. 12, 2010 – 10:25 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Neighbor
Report: Open garage door … Zimmerman says “this is very unlike his neighbor” … “there is a lot of electronics in the resd and posb in the garage”


26. Jan. 1, 2010 – 4:34 a.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Zimmerman reports reckless driver in “purplish Ford Ranger single cab”
LOL...

Where did you dig up that cherry picked material?

The incidents sound correct from the file I read off the police web site, but it doesn't list the "white" suspects at all, like the police file does.

Also, I don't recall seeing that many incidents with "black" suspects. Since it leaves out "white" suspects entirely, I have to disregard that account as bullshit.

[DarrinS]

It's quite possible the defense won't talk until they get to the trial.


I guess when you're trying to get your client bail, you don't raise too many objections that will piss off the judge?

[Wild Cobra]

lots of calls on "suspicious" black males huh Wild Cobra?
Why doesn't it list the suspicious whites in it?

[Trill Clinton]

Why doesn't it list the suspicious whites in it?

because ya'll arent suspicious unless you're in the hood buying crack.

[Wild Cobra]

because ya'll arent suspicious unless you're in the hood buying crack.
I see.

You just admitted you have no idea what's in the actual police reports. Just what the media is feeding you.

I read the reports. You obviously did not.

[Creepn]

I see.

You just admitted you have no idea what's in the actual police reports. Just what the media is feeding you.

I read the reports. You obviously did not.

You telling me that the majority of the reports aren't in regards to black people moreso than any other race? Is that what you're saying?

I really wish you would stop trying to insult my intelligence that people don't suspect black people they don't know. Cosmic Cowboy just stated that if there are black people he doesn't know just walking about in his neighborhood, his neighbors would call the cops on them. Cosmic on the other hand wouldn't call the cops because he would be locked and loaded.

[Wild Cobra]

You telling me that the majority of the reports aren't in regards to black people moreso than any other race? Is that what you're saying?
No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying what was just linked is not an accurate reflection of the facts.

Why did it leave out the naming of "white" suspects? the police reports do list incidents with white suspects.

The area has a ratio of about 5:2 whites to blacks. I forget what the statistics say about black criminals vs. white criminals, but it seems to me that "black" will appear more often that "white' simply due to statistics.

Again...

What really shows the bias of the linked material, is not a single incident is listed with a "white" suspect, when it is in the actual police files.

[Creepn]

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying what was just linked is not an accurate reflection of the facts.

Why did it leave out the naming of "white" suspects? the police reports do list incidents with white suspects.

The area has a ratio of about 5:2 whites to blacks. I forget what the statistics say about black criminals vs. white criminals, but it seems to me that "black" will appear more often that "white' simply due to statistics.

Again...

What really shows the bias of the linked material, is not a single incident is listed with a "white" suspect, when it is in the actual police files.

Second half of it:

25. Nov. 3, 2009 – 5:04 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Disturbance
Report: White Ford F350 that was “cutting people off”


24. Nov. 21, 2009 – 2:26 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Unclear


23. Oct. 23, 2009 – 9:18 a.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Animals
Report: “Aggressive white and brown pitbull” sitting outside Zimmerman’s home


22. Sept. 22, 2009 – 6:00 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: “Yellow speed bike … was speeding and weaving in and out of traffic and doing wheelies”


21. Sept. 7, 2009 – 9:01 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Maintenance
Report: “Pot hole in the road” … “it is deep and can cause damage to vehicles”


20. Aug. 26, 2009  - 8:35 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: “Gold Caprice … male driving with no headlights … speeding”


19. Aug. 21, 2009 – 6:57 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Conflict
Report: “Landlord is trying to take [Zimmerman’s] money for rent … and home in foreclosure”


18. June 16, 2009 – 3:50 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Persons in the pool area playing basketball, “jumpin over the fence going into pool area and trashin the bathroom”


17. June 10, 2009 – 1:55 a.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Alarm
Report: Fire alarm going off


16. May 4, 2009 – 4:07 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Reports a blue Audi A4


15. March 12, 2009 – 6:58 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Patrol
Report: Patrol request between March 13 and March 22


14. Jan. 5, 2009 – 10:53 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Alarm
Report: Fire alarm going off


13. Nov. 25, 2007 – 12:40 a.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Disturbance
Report: “Ex roommate is letting people that [Zimmerman] don’t like in the” house


12. Nov. 25, 2007 – 12:21 a.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: White male ex-roommate last seen wearing a red Florida State University shirt


11. Oct. 14, 2007 – 4:10 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Possible criminal mischief to the tire of Zimmerman’s black Dodge Durango


10. June 24, 2007 – 12:48 a.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: “By the pool”, two Hispanic males and one white male with “slim jim”


9. Nov. 4, 2006 – 2:37 a.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: A call regarding a “late model red” Toyota pickup “driving around the neighborhood and apt complex for the past 5 min”


8. Sept. 23, 2005 – 7:03 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Zimmerman’s “little sister just call him from above” his address and advises “there was a” suspicious person “at the front door”


7. Sept. 21, 2005 – 9:00 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Animals
Report: Reports a stray dog


6. April 27, 2005 – 12:40 a.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Neighbor
Report: Open garage door


5. March 17, 2005 – 7:21 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Maintenance
Report: Pothole “that is blocking the road”


4. Oct. 20, 2004 – 9:13 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Drunk pedestrian walking in the road


3. Aug. 20, 2004 – 11:33 p.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Neighbor
Report: Reports an open garage door


2. Aug.12, 2004 – 10:03 a.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Repeats earlier report


1. Aug. 12, 2004 – 9:59 a.m.
Type: 911
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Places a call reporting a male in a green Ford pickup

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
looks like he made a 2 calls on white people. And one on hispanics.

[Yonivore]

Thats what we do not know as of yet. But for now, the story is that Trayvon provoked it....so thats what's gonna be argued.
I don't think that's the story at all.

The story is no one knows who provoked it.

I have a theory.

The police have a theory.

Zimmerman obviously knows for sure but, that's not reliable.

So, no, the story isn't that Trayvon provoked.

The story is that, as of now, all the known facts are consistent with George Zimmerman's account but, none of that account (except for his statement Trayvon confronted him) and none of the known facts show who started the altercation.

[Creepn]

So by the calls, he was OBVIOUSLY more suspicious of black people than whites AND hispanics put together!

[Yonivore]

A lot of them by police hands.
The vast majority of black murder victims are murdered by other blacks...I think it's over 90%

But, the vast majority of white murder victims are murdered by other whites...also around 90%

[Yonivore]

did some quick searching and 9 of those calls were for suspicious persons. would love to know what race those suspicious persons were.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/2700249/trayvon-martin-shooter-a-habitual.html

but I would like to know the answers to your questions as well
If you're that interested, there's a widely used tool known as the Freedom of Information Act.

Those 911/311 calls are open records.

[Creepn]

The vast majority of black murder victims are murdered by other blacks...I think it's over 90%

But, the vast majority of white murder victims are murdered by other whites...also around 90%

How far back are we going to see the percentage of murders on blacks by whites? Since beginning of the country? 1950's, 1970's, 2000's?

[Creepn]

The vast majority of black murder victims are murdered by other blacks...I think it's over 90%

But, the vast majority of white murder victims are murdered by other whites...also around 90%

What are the percentages of innocent black people being killed by police as opposed to whites?

[clambake]

looking at all those calls............this guy has an axe to grind.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You can be an ignorant fuck all you want. It's not "typical" to bypass the grand jury, although it is done. Words have meaning, dumbshit. And "typical" doesn't even come close, here.

And, yes, it is MANDATORY for the prosecutor to include ALL exculpatory evidence in an affidavit. And, yes, the prosecutor in the Duke Lacrosse debacle withheld exculpatory evidence. And it's not defamation, since I said "if" this prosecutor did that. We don't know.

That's your problem - you make shit up. Well... that's one of your problems.

Oh and counselor, you may wih to consider the following:


But I think the problem is that under the law now, number one, prosecutors are not obligated to provide exculpatory evidence to grand juries who are considering whether or not to indict a defendant. And number two, there's no real requirement at all that prosecutors disclose exculpatory evidence to defendants prior to the time they decide to plead.

What do DISCOVERY mean?

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122286337

Still no apology, peaches?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

and why would Trayvon run? if he did zimmerman probably would have unloaded the entire clip in him. Trayvon was destined to die that night no matter what.
link?

[ElNono]

"Stand your ground" law may not even be an issue. IF what Z claims is true, and what evidence made public seems to suggest, that Z was getting his head pounded into the sidewalk, then it may be straight up self-defense.

Sure. The question is why he was getting his head pounded into the sidewalk.


A 6'3" athletic football player thinking he can't outrun a older, slightly pudgy man of 5'9"?

Maybe the 6'3" athletic football player thought he could "stand his ground" against the slightly pudgy man of 5'9". Your hypothesis are no better than anybody else's.

That's why this whole discussion is really moot until the trial starts and everybody gets to see the evidence.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That's why this whole discussion is really moot until the trial starts and everybody gets to see the evidence.

Thats what i have been saying and when it comes down to 'prosecutor' and 'defense' theories, I have tried to stay out of it. I probably should have stayed out of the 'never attack a guy with a gun' thing but as a generalization it was patently false and sometimes I just cannot help myself.

And anytime GSH is just making shit up and inserting it for truth I feel it is my duty to point it out.

[TheSkeptic]

looking at all those calls............this guy has an axe to grind.

To be honest, I don't think he realized how prejudiced he actually was. It's really interesting how you can spend your whole life around people of all types but still have your preconceptions guiding your actions. Sobering really.

Creepn, you are the man/woman. :tu

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I have no idea but there are circumstances in which it makes perfectly good sense to try to fight someone with a gun. Those are just various techniques depending on where and how the assailant is holding the weapon.ok. i guess. i really dont know why you'd post that link as a response. it really wasn't what i was getting at. i was asking why would trayvon engage a man with a gun that's visible in his waistband? read that last sentence a few times over and over if you need to.


You guys are just discounting that idea out of hand and I am just pointing out that not to be the case.
yeah, that's really what i wasn't getting at


if you think someone is going to shoot you and you cannot get away the obvious choice is to fight.was trayvon cornered?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Well it appears VlE has gone and GSH isn't going to apologize. that coupled with people trying to argue the case with supposition and no new facts I am bowing out of this thread for now.
you really had nothing for me

[TheSkeptic]

Sure. The question is why he was getting his head pounded into the sidewalk.


"The prosecuting attorney, after saying "I didn't know we were going to be trying the case today," is back to ask questions of state attorney's investigator Dale Gilbreath, after O'Mara asked questions challenging the state's assertions.

The prosecutor asked Gilbreath whether there was any evidence indicating that Zimmerman's account that Martin bashed his head against a sidewalk wasn't true. Gilbreath said yes."

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/20/live-blog-attorney-seeks-bond-for-george-zimmerman/

I'll just leave this here. :D

Though to be fair it doesn't completely remove the possibility that Zimmerman returned to his car at some point. I just think he took up his pursuit again because the body was so far away from the car.

I suspect that between the fact that Zimmerman was lying about having his head bashed against the sidewalk and the location of the body, SYG is Zimmerman's only hope of defense as opposed to broader self-defense rules because it's been used before in similar cases. O'Mara is likely going to try and hang the jury up on the fact that they don't know who made initial contact if his line of questioning shows anything.

Given the nature of the charge, however, I think the prosecution is basically going to try and prove that Zimmerman was reckless in his actions and that his account was untrue.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

yup, why is it so hard to not believe he had murder on his mind when he saw trayvon?
??????

really? you have absolute knowledge that zimmerman wanted to kill him?

[Yonivore]

What are the percentages of innocent black people being killed by police as opposed to whites?
I don't know but, why's that germane to this case? Zimmerman was neither white nor a police officer.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

was trayvon cornered?

What does that have to do with anything? They were on the street.

I think the better question is there any credible evidence when Zimmerman pulled/brandished his piece.

[Trill Clinton]

??????

really? you have absolute knowledge that zimmerman wanted to kill him?

of course I don't but it isn't a far fetched notion.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Maybe he thought he couldn't outrun him. "Stand your ground" apparently isn't such a good idea now.

normally in a good or bad neighborhood, a skinny person can outrun a fat person

[Viva Las Espuelas]

His skin color is what made Zimmerman suspicious of him in the first place!

link?

[Creepn]

I don't know but, why's that germane to this case? Zimmerman was neither white nor a police officer.

Wild Cobra and others asked why didn't Martin call the police if he was scared and I explained to him that given the history with the police and black people, black people call the police as a measure of last resort. Whites can easily pick up the phone and report non-emergencies but it's not the same feeling for the black community.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

normally in a good or bad neighborhood, a skinny person can outrun a fat person

I have no evidence that this is the case but if they met on the street and Martin knew he had a gun and thought he was going to use it then its a reasonable conclusion that all running would do is get you shot in the back.

if someone has a gun and you cannot get something between you and them or get very very far away very quickly they will still have a clear shot at you.

[Creepn]

link?

How about looking at those calls I listed and see where most of his suspicious lies. The black males he reported were just doing everyday human movements: Walking or driving.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

You telling me that the majority of the reports aren't in regards to black people moreso than any other race? Is that what you're saying?
with you being so concerned about race, what's the race percentages there? is this a "black" or "white" neighborhood? and i ask like that because you're framing it that way.

[Yonivore]

Wild Cobra and others asked why didn't Martin call the police if he was scared and I explained to him that given the history with the police and black people, black people call the police as a measure of last resort. Whites can easily pick up the phone and report non-emergencies but it's not the same feeling for the black community.
I doubt this is true but, nonetheless, it seems to me to be a problem that can only be solved by the black community.

I'm also not quite understanding why you're attempting to conflate a shooting, committed by an Hispanic civilian against a Black civilian into a something about white cops and black victims of white cops.

But, since you raised the issue, perhaps you've answered your own question. Mistrust can sometimes lead people to do irrational things that can lead them to be injured.

As a white person, when I get pulled over by the police, I'm polite and follow every command to the letter -- if I'm able. I don't smart back, I don't run, I don't attack them, I don't pull out a gun and try to kill them.

I think you get the picture.

Maybe the chip on blacks' shoulders are causing them to act stupid and get shot.

Circling back to the Martin shooting; perhaps Trayvon had a chip on his shoulder about being a black kid being followed in his own neighborhood so, he decided to confront Zimmerman and kick his ass.

[Creepn]

I doubt this is true but, nonetheless, it seems to me to be a problem that can only be solved by the black community.

HA!!

You didn't hear about the elderly man being shot and killed by cops after he explained he didn't need police assistance and was told "I don't care Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_!" about 2 weeks ago?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

looking at all those calls............this guy has an axe to grind.
then i guess every security guard, neighborhood watch is guilty of that. i think that'd be called doing one's job tbh

[Viva Las Espuelas]

What does that have to do with anything? They were on the street.
then why
if you think someone is going to shoot you and you cannot get away the obvious choice is to fight.

what options do you have if your not cornered on a residential block and you have a fatass with a handgun in his waist?????

[Viva Las Espuelas]

of course I don't but it isn't a far fetched notion.

ah. i see we're "fetching" now. that's great.

[Yonivore]

with you being so concerned about race, what's the race percentages there? is this a "black" or "white" neighborhood? and i ask like that because you're framing it that way.
There was actually a DOJ study released last week that I'm trying to find.

I want to find the graph before I give actual number more but, the bottom line is the races kill people in their own race at an exponentially higher rate than they do people outside their race. Blacks were the highest. Blacks were also the highest when it came to interracial murders with blacks killing more non-blacks than any other race.

[Trill Clinton]

link?

stop asking for links.

do you think zimmerman deserves jail time?

[Yonivore]

HA!!

You didn't hear about the elderly man being shot and killed by cops after he explained he didn't need police assistance and was told "I don't care Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_!" about 2 weeks ago?
There are anecdotes of white people being wrongly shot by police.

What's your point?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

then why

what options do you have if your not cornered on a residential block and you have a fatass with a handgun in his waist?????

You can be not cornered and still not be able to get away. Ranged weapons being what they are and all.

Is there any credible evidence when Zimmerman showed his weapon or whether it was in holstered at his waist?

[Yonivore]

You can be not cornered and still not be able to get away. Ranged weapons being what they are and all.
What do you mean by "ranged weapon?"

[TheSkeptic]

What do you mean by "ranged weapon?"

...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What do you mean by "ranged weapon?"

A weapon that can strike a target at range. In this case a gun. Other examples include howitzers and slings.

[Trill Clinton]

link?

stop asking for links.

do you think zimmerman deserves jail time?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

An atlatl is another favorite of mine.

[Yonivore]

do you think zimmerman deserves jail time?
If he's guilty of an offense that calls for imprisonment, absolutely.

[clambake]

then i guess every security guard, neighborhood watch is guilty of that. i think that'd be called doing one's job tbh

wasn't his job. self appointed avenger.

[spursncowboys]

If he's guilty of an offense that calls for imprisonment, absolutely.

Do you think, regardless of his guilt, that he will be found guilty? Of second degree murder?

[Creepn]

There are anecdotes of white people being wrongly shot by police.

What's your point?

My point is Mr. Yoni, is that it happened way too much for blacks to feel comfortable enough to call police even for non-emergencies. Police have a history of unlawful conduct towards blacks and that is a fact, whether it's being profiled, beaten, harrassed or killed.

I'm not disputing that unlawful police actions happens to whites as well but please don't try to convince me that it's on the same scale to blacks.

[Wild Cobra]

So by the calls, he was OBVIOUSLY more suspicious of black people than whites AND hispanics put together!
If you say so.

Now I will bet, that there is a pattern to who the suspicious people were, buy location. remember, he lived three different places during the course of these calls.

Do you think it's possible that this last community he lived in was predominately black, or right next to predominately a black neighborhood?

I don't know if that is the case or not, but is it possible that the suspects later are reported a primarily black, because that is the majority of the neighborhood?

I suggest you reflect on your words if you don't know the answer to that.

[Wild Cobra]

The vast majority of black murder victims are murdered by other blacks...I think it's over 90%

But, the vast majority of white murder victims are murdered by other whites...also around 90%
That's at least similar to the reported statistics I heard.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

My point is Mr. Yoni, is that it happened way too much for blacks to feel comfortable enough to call police even for non-emergencies. Police have a history of unlawful conduct towards blacks and that is a fact, whether it's being profiled, beaten, harrassed or killed.

I'm not disputing that unlawful police actions happens to whites as well but please don't try to convince me that it's on the same scale to blacks.

Yoni apparently lives under a rock.

oJ-ldcnhsLY

0w-SP7iuM6k

[TheSkeptic]

That's at least similar to the reported statistics I heard.

That would make sense though and it doesn't make it any less wrong...

[Wild Cobra]

What are the percentages of innocent black people being killed by police as opposed to whites?
Probably similar. Don't know. Do you?

[Wild Cobra]

Wild Cobra and others asked why didn't Martin call the police if he was scared and I explained to him that given the history with the police and black people, black people call the police as a measure of last resort. Whites can easily pick up the phone and report non-emergencies but it's not the same feeling for the black community.
And that is Zimmerman's fault.... How?

[Wild Cobra]

I'm also not quite understanding why you're attempting to conflate a shooting, committed by an Hispanic civilian against a Black civilian into a something about white cops and black victims of white cops.

I wonder if the liberals think we should be making this about border control? I wonder if they are flabbergasted that we aren't showing the racism they know we have for Hispanics?

[Wild Cobra]

then why

what options do you have if your not cornered on a residential block and you have a fatass with a handgun in his waist?????
Not just any handgun, but a handgun that's too small to secure in your waist.

[Blake]

And that is Zimmerman's fault.... How?

I don't see where he is blaming Zimmerman for Martin not calling.

All Zimmerman did was shoot him dead.

[Blake]

I wonder if the liberals think we should be making this about border control? I wonder if they are flabbergasted that we aren't showing the racism they know we have for Hispanics?

lolwut

[bobbyjoe]

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying what was just linked is not an accurate reflection of the facts.

Why did it leave out the naming of "white" suspects? the police reports do list incidents with white suspects.

The area has a ratio of about 5:2 whites to blacks. I forget what the statistics say about black criminals vs. white criminals, but it seems to me that "black" will appear more often that "white' simply due to statistics.

Again...

What really shows the bias of the linked material, is not a single incident is listed with a "white" suspect, when it is in the actual police files.

If the report redacted "white" from the suspect descriptions, that is obviously indicative of having an agenda.

However, if what you meant by your last statement is that due to the fact that blacks commit more crimes than white, it is a solid rationale for why most of Zimmerman's calls would be about black people, I completely disagree.

The reason being is that the implication in that conclusion is that the bulk of Zimmerman's 911 calls ended up being about actual criminal activity instead of about activity where he was just being paranoid or overly suspicious.

If the vast majority of Zimmerman's calls did not end up being observations of actual criminal activity, then the ratio of his black: white calls should be very in line with the demograhpics of neighborhood citizens, not in line with demographics of area criminals.

It is concerning about Zimmerman that many of his descriptions do not seem to have tangible suspicious activity. How can you tell just by looking at someone that "they look they are on drugs?". Was he close enough to see blodshot eyes?! What exactly is suspicious about someone "walking around, looking about"? It's not like he observed anything like them breaking into a house, breaking into a car, etc. Racial profiling can definitely go to far...

[Stringer_Bell]

Wild Cobra and others asked why didn't Martin call the police if he was scared and I explained to him that given the history with the police and black people, black people call the police as a measure of last resort. Whites can easily pick up the phone and report non-emergencies but it's not the same feeling for the black community.

We know 911 is bullshit, but that still doesn't explain why Martin didn't call his dad. His dad was at home, Martin was in the gated complex, how hard is it to either run home or call your dad to help?

If the bond hearing was any indication of what is to come, Zimmerman won't even go to trial. And lol @ the media claiming Zimmerman is trying to taint the jury pool with his "self-serving apology" when those media fucks have gone out of their way to taint the minds of anyone stupid enough to take what they say at face value.

[Wild Cobra]

Police have a history of unlawful conduct towards blacks and that is a fact, whether it's being profiled, beaten, harrassed or killed.
And you think that doesn't happen with everyone else?

My God...

What propaganda are you being taught?

The police are equal opportunity bullies. They fuck with all races.

[Wild Cobra]

I don't see where he is blaming Zimmerman for Martin not calling.

All Zimmerman did was shoot him dead.
part of this complaint about Zimmerman is that he could have done things different, except by those who claim Zuimmerman was out to kill a black dude.

If Zimmerman is responsible for Martin's death by his choice of action, then isn't Martin responsible for his actions, or inaction, as well?

[Blake]

And you think that doesn't happen with everyone else?

My God...

What propaganda are you being taught?

The police are equal opportunity bullies. They fuck with all races.

lol WC's propoganda is better

[FuzzyLumpkins]

And you think that doesn't happen with everyone else?

My God...

What propaganda are you being taught?

The police are equal opportunity bullies. They fuck with all races.

Especially in the American south. Racism is all lies and liberal propaganda.

I realize that WC is trolling right now but I really think he has a learning disability.

[Wild Cobra]

It is concerning about Zimmerman that many of his descriptions do not seem to have tangible suspicious activity. How can you tell just by looking at someone that "they look they are on drugs?". Was he close enough to see blodshot eyes?! What exactly is suspicious about someone "walking around, looking about"? It's not like he observed anything like them breaking into a house, breaking into a car, etc. Racial profiling can definitely go to far...
You can't. That's why there is a clear difference between "suspicion" and "probable cause."

I still see nothing but allegations and suspicion about this being profiling as well.

What "probable cause" do you have that this was a racist act?

[Wild Cobra]

lol WC's propoganda is better
I've been fucked with by the police for no good reason. I'll bet other whites here have as well.

[Creepn]

We know 911 is bullshit, but that still doesn't explain why Martin didn't call his dad. His dad was at home, Martin was in the gated complex, how hard is it to either run home or call your dad to help?

If the bond hearing was any indication of what is to come, Zimmerman won't even go to trial. And lol @ the media claiming Zimmerman is trying to taint the jury pool with his "self-serving apology" when those media fucks have gone out of their way to taint the minds of anyone stupid enough to take what they say at face value.

A guy is following you and you want them to know where you live? If I suspect a guy is following behind me while I'm driving, I take different routes to lose him before I head home whether he was following me or not. I'm I the only one to do this? As for the "calling dad", he was already on the phone with his girl.

[Blake]

If Zimmerman is responsible for Martin's death by his choice of action, then isn't Martin responsible for his actions, or inaction, as well?

right, he should have assumed from the start that Zimmerman was packing.

[Blake]

I've been fucked with by the police for no good reason. I'll bet other whites here have as well.

cops are all bullies!

[bobbyjoe]

You can't. That's why there is a clear difference between "suspicion" and "probable cause."

I still see nothing but allegations and suspicion about this being profiling as well.

What "probable cause" do you have that this was a racist act?

I don't have any probable cause that the killing was a racist act and I think that is wholly irrelevant. The issue is that a life was taken, not whether the motive was racial or not.

Zimmerman's call stated that "this guy looks like he's on drugs". If you concede you can't make that determination just by looking at someone, then how does Zimmerman draw this conclusion without profiling Trayvon?

Short of an outright admission from Zimmerman, what evidence would you need to prove that Zimmerman was a racial profiler (much different than being an actual racist)?

Most terrorists are indeed Muslims, but most Muslims are not terrorists. Most criminals are indeed black, but most blacks are not criminals. Do you think this a nuance Zimmerman grasps?

[bobbyjoe]

We know 911 is bullshit, but that still doesn't explain why Martin didn't call his dad. His dad was at home, Martin was in the gated complex, how hard is it to either run home or call your dad to help?

If the bond hearing was any indication of what is to come, Zimmerman won't even go to trial. And lol @ the media claiming Zimmerman is trying to taint the jury pool with his "self-serving apology" when those media fucks have gone out of their way to taint the minds of anyone stupid enough to take what they say at face value.

Martin's dad was at dinner with his girlfriend at the time of the killing. Why would he call his dad who was at a restaurant and thus in no position to help?!

The media didn't take Trayvon Martin's life. Sure, the media always has an agenda, but the travesty in this case is the loss of a 17 year old life, not media bias.

[Yonivore]

My point is Mr. Yoni, is that it happened way too much for blacks to feel comfortable enough to call police even for non-emergencies. Police have a history of unlawful conduct towards blacks and that is a fact, whether it's being profiled, beaten, harrassed or killed.

I'm not disputing that unlawful police actions happens to whites as well but please don't try to convince me that it's on the same scale to blacks.
Okay, I won't.

What's your solution?

[Wild Cobra]

I don't have any probable cause that the killing was a racist act and I think that is wholly irrelevant. The issue is that a life was taken, not whether the motive was racial or not.

Zimmerman's call stated that "this guy looks like he's on drugs". If you concede you can't make that determination just by looking at someone, then how does Zimmerman draw this conclusion without profiling Trayvon?

Short of an outright admission from Zimmerman, what evidence would you need to prove that Zimmerman was a racial profiler (much different than being an actual racist)?
You are now getting into a better point of discussion.

Profiling isn't necessarily a bad thing. Neither is discrimination warranted for the situation. We all discriminate on a daily basis. It usually has nothing to do with race however.

Wouldn't a wise person in society not want to appear as one who gets profiled?

Most terrorists are indeed Muslims, but most Muslims are not terrorists. Most criminals are indeed black, but most blacks are not criminals. Do you think this a nuance Zimmerman grasps?
Absolutely. Why do you think he doesn't?

[Stringer_Bell]

A guy is following you and you want them to know where you live? If I suspect a guy is following behind me while I'm driving, I take different routes to lose him before I head home whether he was following me or not. I'm I the only one to do this? As for the "calling dad", he was already on the phone with his girl.

Bobbyjoe kinda made me question my internal narrative of what happened, cuz apparently the dad wasn't even there so I can understand the lack of calling for help. What I don't understand is how the kid is afraid to ask anyone for help when he fuckin lives there. No way I, or you, or any other able bodied young person gets cornered in your own gated community. Someone could have helped, it seemed like a small enough place. And if it's proven that a crime was committed, then the blood is on the hands of some silent neighbors too.


@bobbyjoe, that's the first I hear about the fathers whereabouts at the time. I'll take your word cuz I have been curious and just never found anything about it other than the initial reports that the dad was in the complex at the same time (visiting friends, which of course was not true cuz he lived there - lots of stuff was reported wrong even tho the incident occured a good amount of time before it broke nationally).

[TheSkeptic]

Bobbyjoe kinda made me question my internal narrative of what happened, cuz apparently the dad wasn't even there so I can understand the lack of calling for help. What I don't understand is how the kid is afraid to ask anyone for help when he fuckin lives there. No way I, or you, or any other able bodied young person gets cornered in your own gated community. Someone could have helped, it seemed like a small enough place. And if it's proven that a crime was committed, then the blood is on the hands of some silent neighbors too.



He had a right to be there but he was visiting his father/father's girlfriend. I'm not sure he would've known anybody that he could've called on the phone who lived there.

And going by the 911 calls Trayvon did try to call for help. The neighbours were unfortunately a little bit too frightened to go out and see what was happening I think. That and they probably didn't realize Zimmerman had a gun.

[Creepn]

Okay, I won't.

What's your solution?

This may be out there but what do you think about assigning cops to neighborhoods by race? Like assigning black cops to cover predominantly black areas, who him/herself have been raised in one which would propel him to be more sympathetic to the black plight. Same with mexican cops with latino areas and so forth.

This would reduce close contact with problems of other races other than your own and may stem judgement and hatred of other racial groups that could possibly develop over time. What do you think?

[Yonivore]

This may be out there but what do you think about assigning cops to neighborhoods by race? Like assigning black cops to cover predominantly black areas, who him/herself have been raised in one which would propel him to be more sympathetic to the black plight. Same with mexican cops with latino areas and so forth.

This would reduce close contact with problems of other races other than your own and may stem judgement and hatred of other racial groups that could possibly develop over time. What do you think?
Sure, go for it. Personally, I don't think it'll solve the problem but, hey, if it'll stop people from injecting race in an issue that has nothing to with race; I'm all for it.

[spursncowboys]

This may be out there but what do you think about assigning cops to neighborhoods by race? Like assigning black cops to cover predominantly black areas, who him/herself have been raised in one which would propel him to be more sympathetic to the black plight. Same with mexican cops with latino areas and so forth.

This would reduce close contact with problems of other races other than your own and may stem judgement and hatred of other racial groups that could possibly develop over time. What do you think?

I took a criminal justice class and my professor was a sapd. He generalized that guys who want to work in the west side and east side were, more times than not, young guys wanting to get into stuff. Wanting action. The southside were the guys close to retirement who liked all the restaurants. The northside were all the family guys wanting to work close to home. Don't know the actuality of this since I don't know any sapd.

Your idea makes sense, since alot of police start to treat areas where they are seen negetively as a war zone. However, realistically, I don't see the union, politicians, or voters agreeing with this.

[bobbyjoe]

Did anyone catch today that the prosecutor indicated Zimmerman had told the police during their hours of questioning him that Trayvon Martin was trying to suffocate him before he "scooted away" and shot Trayvon at close range?

That statement by Zimmerman clearly conflicts with his contention that the voice on the 911 call yelling 10-12 times for help in a 45 second span is his because that voice on the tape is not muffled and the gunshot is fired less than one second before the final and audible cry for help. No way does someone wrestle away from an attacker bashing his heading into the ground while sufocating him, unholster his gun and fire it in all in the span of under one second.

Remember that the main reason the lead investigator wanted to file a charge of manslaughter is that he didn't believe Z's story. From today's bail hearing, Zimmerman's credibility seems to be the prosecution's main strategy. Whether that will be enough if they don't have eyewitnesses that can corroborate Zimmerman being the agressor or seeing Martin screaming will be interesting to see.

[Wild Cobra]

That's right.

Send Gabe Kotter back to the place he came from.

On the serious side thought, many years back, I remember hearing about programs tried like this. Not sure, but I seem to remember the black police officers calling racism foul for being in the black neighborhoods because they were black.

[Wild Cobra]

Did anyone catch today that the prosecutor indicated Zimmerman had told the police during their hours of questioning him that Trayvon Martin was trying to suffocate him before he "scooted away" and shot Trayvon at close range?

That statement by Zimmerman clearly conflicts with his contention that the voice on the 911 call yelling 10-12 times for help in a 45 second span is his because that voice on the tape is not muffled and the gunshot is fired less than one second before the final and audible cry for help. No way does someone wrestle away from an attacker bashing his heading into the ground while sufocating him, unholster his gun and fire it in all in the span of under one second.

Remember that the main reason the lead investigator wanted to file a charge of manslaughter is that he didn't believe Z's story. From today's bail hearing, Zimmerman's credibility seems to be the prosecution's main strategy. Whether that will be enough if they don't have eyewitnesses that can corroborate Zimmerman being the agressor or seeing Martin screaming will be interesting to see.
And we are to believe this liar..... why?