Trayvon Martin - black kid armed with skittles killed in "self-defense" [Archive] - Page 9

Stringer_Bell

04-11-2012, 07:35 PM

Well, they're going to have to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, Zimmerman had criminal intent that resulted in Martin's death.
Good luck finding a jury you have to prove anything to, I don't know how they'll find people that can listen to the evidence objectively. Zimmerman was criminally negligent and knowingly put himself in a position that was dangerous...but intent to kill is hard to prove given the evidence in the media so far. That doesn't matter tho, Floridians are pissed that Casey Anthony got off and they don't want to look bad so I'm sure they'll crucify Zimmerman in her place.

Hopefully the story starts to go away now that "the people" feel like they might have had an affect on this case. The way they cum-guzzled this story when far worse crimes are committed amongst minority communities and by law enforcement agencies shows how stupid "the people" are. No one would have cared about this if the dude wasn't tagged "white" and that picture of a little boy isn't used. Maybe Zimmerman will shoot himself first and then the story can go away and I can get back to watching funny MSNBC news shows again.

lol justice

TheProfessor

04-11-2012, 07:41 PM

Zimmerman's been charged with what's normally called "depraved heart" murder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depraved-heart_murder). It could be equated with gross recklessness. At trial, either the prosecution or defense can request jury instructions on lesser included offenses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesser_included_offense). In some jurisdictions, voluntary manslaughter would qualify as a lesser-included of second-degree murder (in capital cases, it's required as an instruction). Assuming Florida follows this model (and I don't know if it does), either side could request this instruction and Zimmerman could still be convicted of manslaughter, implicitly acquitting him of any murder charge.

JoeChalupa

04-11-2012, 07:48 PM

I'm OK with that.

Watched the entire special prosecutor press conference on line.

IMHO just a fatter Marcia Clarke.

Hopefully we won't get the topless vacation pictures.

That remark leads me to believe that your mind is made up and you already feel he is not guilty. I know you are being sarcastic but damn.

CosmicCowboy

04-11-2012, 07:50 PM

c'mon cowboy, you didn't think thats funny?

Belated :lol

FuzzyLumpkins

04-11-2012, 07:52 PM

:lol. Got anything more recent?

Stellar comment. Way to stay with current events, Leno.

You are making declarative statements on the law when its obvious you obviously have no expertise. Is that better?

I also only watch TV on the DVR for sports. Everything else I DL. I take it as a good thing that I am not up on TV pop culture.

CosmicCowboy

04-11-2012, 07:55 PM

That remark leads me to believe that your mind is made up and you already feel he is not guilty. I know you are being sarcastic but damn.

All the cards haven't been turned over yet.

Based on the ones I have seen I'm betting not guilty.

I'm a decent poker player but I lose hands all the time.

Blake

04-11-2012, 08:05 PM

There is one problem with that. I am innocent.

You're guilty of lame comedic trolling

spursncowboys

04-11-2012, 08:08 PM

:lol

It still needs to be changed. Z being brought to trial doesn't change the fact that the stand your ground stuff is fundamentally flawed.

But the state is saying that this isn't 'stand your ground'. Why do you want to change a states law you don't live in? Unless you do live there.

TheProfessor

04-11-2012, 08:15 PM

But the state is saying that this isn't 'stand your ground'. Why do you want to change a states law you don't live in? Unless you do live there.
Legislators say the statute is overbroad and has been used in unintended ways. Prosecutors say it's preventing them from doing their jobs. I understand letting a state control their penal code, but this law seems like it's hindering justice. Someone can take an interest in that without being a Floridian.

Viva Las Espuelas

04-11-2012, 09:05 PM

Good on all counts, except the last one. Sharpton will turn this into a god dammned circus in short order.

Will?

Where have you been? :lol

Viva Las Espuelas

04-11-2012, 09:10 PM

Zimmerman turned himself in...

Can he now claim the $10,000 new black panther reward?

Seems only fair.

He should sue them if they don't cough it up

Yonivore

04-11-2012, 09:12 PM

Legislators say the statute is overbroad and has been used in unintended ways. Prosecutors say it's preventing them from doing their jobs. I understand letting a state control their penal code, but this law seems like it's hindering justice. Someone can take an interest in that without being a Floridian.
I think the point is the "Stand Your Ground" provision of the Florida statute was never an issue in this case. Zimmerman didn't claim it, the police never mentioned it, and the prosecutors didn't consider it.

Just like the race-baiters who made it about race - when it wasn't, the Brady Bunch jumped on this and tried to shoe-horn it into a narrative that would cause gun carry laws, the castle doctrine, and stand your ground provisions to be scrutinized.

Yonivore

04-11-2012, 09:13 PM

I wonder when the criminal complaint or indictment (if those are issued without a grand jury) will be released.

That should specifically state the elements of the crime the prosecutor believes make it a 2nd degree murder, no?

Nbadan

04-11-2012, 09:44 PM

I wonder if Zimmerman's prior arrest history will come out?

In 2005 Zimmerman was arrested on DUI and battery on a police officer. The felony charge was reduced to a misdemeanor and he was ordered to attend anger management classes.

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/george-zimmerman-was-arrested-before-trayvon-martin-case-previously-accused-of-domestic-violence

Nbadan

04-11-2012, 09:56 PM

Whistling past the graveyard much?

George Zimmerman, the Hispanic Floridian who killed black teenager Trayvon Martin on Feb. 26, had a MySpace account whose username was “datniggytb,” The Daily Caller has learned.

According to a family member whose identity The Daily Caller has agreed not to reveal for safety reasons, the “datniggytb” name is not a racial slur, but a friendly nickname that referred to George himself.

“That was an old nickname his black friends gave him,” the Zimmerman family member said. “He didn’t have an issue with the profile name.”

Asked about the significance of the letters “tb” at the end of the username, the family member insisted that they did not stand for Trayvon Benjamin, his shooting victim’s first and middle names.

<SNIP>

Full article here: http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/11/zimmermans-myspace-nickname-included-datniggy-family-insists-on-innocent-explanation/

Nbadan

04-11-2012, 10:23 PM

Photoshop fun!

http://webbond.seminolesheriff.org/bookingphotos/201200004452.jpg
George Zimmerman

Nbadan

04-11-2012, 10:36 PM

dupe

Nbadan

04-11-2012, 10:36 PM

Zimmerman's new lawyer...

Attorney Mark O'Mara, who was a legal expert for Local 6 in the Casey Anthony murder trial and the ongoing Trayvon Martin death investigation, is now representing George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watchman who shot and killed the teen in Sanford.

Zimmerman was charged Wednesday with second-degree murder in Martin's death.

O'Mara said Zimmerman will plead not guilty and asked that people not jump to conclusions about his client's guilt. O'Mara said he's "hoping that the community will calm down" now that charges have been filed and the case is moving forward.

"I'm expecting a lot of work and hopefully justice in the end," said O'Mara, who added that Zimmerman is OK but concerned about his future. "He's frightened."

Read more: http://www.clickorlando.com/news/Local-6-legal-expert-Mark-O-Mara-now-representing-George-Zimmerman/-/1637132/10562698/-/kwc0rpz/-/index.html

Jacob1983

04-11-2012, 11:28 PM

No one has mentioned but I bet Rush Limbaugh is enjoying this shit. His controversy has basically died since this race baiting and fake race war shit is the number one news story right now. And I bet that uppity bitch that cried to Congress is sad that her 15 minutes are up.

clambake

04-11-2012, 11:51 PM

And I bet that uppity bitch that cried to Congress is sad that her 15 minutes are up.

i didn't know you cried to congress.

tell us all about it.

Trainwreck2100

04-12-2012, 12:21 AM

i didn't know you cried to congress.

tell us all about it.

there's lots of uppity bitches besides him

Jacob1983

04-12-2012, 12:50 AM

Okay.

ElNono

04-12-2012, 02:03 AM

I think the point is the "Stand Your Ground" provision of the Florida statute was never an issue in this case. Zimmerman didn't claim it, the police never mentioned it, and the prosecutors didn't consider it.

AFAIK, Zimmerman did claim self-defense, which in Florida falls right into "Stand Your Ground" territory.

Wild Cobra

04-12-2012, 02:20 AM

:lol Now don't jump to conclusions now. We must wait on all the facts.
Isn't "I'll bet" an indication that I am not certain? A bet is a gamble. A gamble is not a certainty.

[/school]

Wild Cobra

04-12-2012, 02:22 AM

Good on all counts, except the last one. Sharpton will turn this into a god dammned circus in short order.
Sharpton has been the main attraction of his one horse circus act for some time.

The guy is tiresome, and should retire.

Wild Cobra

04-12-2012, 02:24 AM

2nd degree is going to be unable to prove. They should have gone with manslaughter and gotten a guaranteed conviction.
Unless there is some good evidence we haven't been privy to, I agree. Seems to me that this is a political move that will allow the prosecutor to say "we tried" and give Zimmerman a legal "not guilty."

I wonder if they will allow the jury to come back with an "innocent" verdict?

That would really piss of the race baiters.

Wild Cobra

04-12-2012, 02:28 AM

The prosecution would have to convince the jury that Zimmerman initiated an assault.
Wrong
Please explain. There are I think three different statutes that the prosecution would have to show that not a single one applied to Zimmerman.

See:
s. 776.012
s. 776.013
s. 776.031

Wild Cobra

04-12-2012, 02:31 AM

:lol

It still needs to be changed. Z being brought to trial doesn't change the fact that the stand your ground stuff is fundamentally flawed.
Did you read the law? I did and don't know what you might mean. Please elaborate.

Wild Cobra

04-12-2012, 02:33 AM

shit, a stadium full of black panthers couldn't scrape together 10 grand.

My My...

How prejudice of you.

Wild Cobra

04-12-2012, 02:33 AM

Belated :lol
I hope you are just humoring him and didn't really think it funny.

Wild Cobra

04-12-2012, 02:36 AM

All the cards haven't been turned over yet.

Based on the ones I have seen I'm betting not guilty.

I'm a decent poker player but I lose hands all the time.
I agree.

I think for the possibility of a conviction, they would either have to prove the cries for help were martin's and not Zimmerman's, or have a good witness that saw what transpired other than what we hear.

Maybe they are hoping Zimmerman will trip out with a possibility of life sentence, and plea bargain for a lesser crime, even if innocent. It wouldn't be the first time they do shit like that.

Wild Cobra

04-12-2012, 02:38 AM

I wonder if Zimmerman's prior arrest history will come out?

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/george-zimmerman-was-arrested-before-trayvon-martin-case-previously-accused-of-domestic-violence
Hard to say, and hard to believe accounts of a newspaper these days.

ElNono

04-12-2012, 02:57 AM

Please explain. There are I think three different statutes that the prosecution would have to show that not a single one applied to Zimmerman.

See:
s. 776.012
s. 776.013
s. 776.031

Yep. No "initiated an assault" in any of of them.

Wild Cobra

04-12-2012, 03:02 AM

---

ElNono

04-12-2012, 03:12 AM

---

Yeah, I didn't think so

rjv

04-12-2012, 08:55 AM

wow... all these brilliant legal minds wasting their talents on a spurs forum....

clambake

04-12-2012, 08:59 AM

imagine that......the white welfare baby that thinks all black people are thugs....could end up as a juror.

the new america.

clambake

04-12-2012, 08:59 AM

imagine that......the white welfare baby that thinks all black people are thugs....could end up as a juror.

the new america.

clambake

04-12-2012, 08:59 AM

so important, i had to say it twice.

CosmicCowboy

04-12-2012, 09:05 AM

Yep. No "initiated an assault" in any of of them.

It matters dude...but don't take MY word for it...

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/to-charge-zimmerman-with-murder-prosecutor-must-know-something-none-of-us/1224619

awyers: Prosecutor must have Zimmerman, Martin evidence not yet revealed

By Dan Sullivan, Times Staff Writer
In Print: Thursday, April 12, 2012

Angela Corey and her team of prosecutors must know something that the rest of us don't.

In order to charge George Zimmerman with second-degree murder, local defense attorneys say, there must be something showing that Zimmerman acted with a "depraved mind" when he shot Trayvon Martin. And, to negate a defense under Florida's "stand your ground" law, there must be evidence that Zimmerman attacked Martin first.

"I don't think she can prove that he acted with a depraved mind or an evil intent," said Denis de Vlaming, a Clearwater defense attorney. "That's a tremendously high burden for the facts as I know them."

Nevertheless, de Vlaming said he wasn't surprised Corey went for a murder charge.

In a highly scrutinized case complete with racial overtones and a public outcry for justice, the prosecutor went for the most serious charge she could, de Vlaming said. Even if a jury does not buy murder, they might settle on a lesser charge of manslaughter.

"It gives the jury some options," said Pinellas defense attorney Jay Hebert. "Typically it is difficult to prove a second-degree murder case where the person doesn't know the other person."

While second-degree murder requires prosecutors prove the "depraved mind" standard, manslaughter only requires they prove recklessness — that a defendant must have known the risks associated with his actions and done them anyway.

Was George Zimmerman simply acting in a reckless manner that led to his gun being fired? Or were his intentions more sinister, the result of a lack of regard for human life? Those are the questions a jury must answer.

But no matter the charge, ultimately only one question matters.

"The most critical issue in this case is 'who struck who first?' " said Stephen Romine, an attorney for de Vlaming's firm. "That part, so far, we haven't really heard anything about."

If Corey presents evidence showing that Zimmerman initiated a physical attack against Martin, "stand your ground" can't apply, Romine said. But if Martin attacked Zimmerman first, the shooting could easily be ruled justified.

It doesn't matter that Zimmerman followed Martin. It doesn't matter what words were exchanged. All that matters is which person began the physical confrontation.

"As long as he (Zimmerman) wasn't doing anything illegal, 'stand your ground' applies," Romine said. "He still has a right not to be attacked."

From a defense perspective, combating the charge against Zimmerman is a matter of proving that he was protecting his own life when he shot Martin, de Vlaming said.

"In my opinion, it's going to be won or lost on forensics," de Vlaming said. "I would align as much forensic experience as I could possibly find on the issues."

That means finding witnesses — audio experts who can analyze the 911 calls, forensic pathologists who can examine Martin's wounds, and any witnesses who may have seen the attack.

But all the evidence presented publicly thus far has not provided a definitive answer of how the scuffle between Martin and Zimmerman transpired.

"It will be interesting to see what they have," Romine said. "Whatever evidence the prosecutor arrested him on, at some point the rest of the public will see it. What we all have to hope for is that the decisions being made are being made on the evidence and not on the uproar."

boutons_deux

04-12-2012, 10:50 AM

"But if Martin attacked Zimmerman first, the shooting could easily be ruled justified."

bullshit

Martin got shot Standing His Ground, defending himself with his fists, against a follower/stalker/confronter.

Note the typical NRA/gun-fetishist/Repug insansity at all kinds of weapons and implements are going to be forbidden from the Repug nominating national convention area EXCEPT guns.

ElNono

04-12-2012, 11:05 AM

It matters dude...but don't take MY word for it...

Again, nothing in the statute about that. The core question, which is in what you quoted, is whether there's evidence Zimmerman did not act in self-defense.
There's obviously more peculiar aspects to this case than a simple fist fight gone wrong. We'll see what the evidence says.

boutons_deux

04-12-2012, 11:14 AM

http://www.truthdig.com/images/eartothegrounduploads/lk041212dAPR-500.jpg

Nbadan

04-12-2012, 09:12 PM

Looks like Zimmerman followed Trayvon, stalking him and was not the one screaming for help on the 911 tapes after all according to the state...

SANFORD, Fla. (AP) - After weeks in hiding, George Zimmerman made his first courtroom appearance Thursday in the shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, and prosecutors outlined their murder case in court papers, saying the neighborhood watch volunteer followed and confronted the black teenager after a police dispatcher told him to back off.

The brief outline, contained in an affidavit filed in support of the second-degree murder charges, appeared to contradict Zimmerman's claim that Martin attacked him after he had turned away and was returning to his vehicle.

In the affidavit, prosecutors also said that Martin's mother identified cries for help heard in the background of a 911 call as her son's. There had been some question as to whether Martin or Zimmerman was the one crying out.

The account of the shooting was released as Zimmerman, 28, appeared at a four-minute hearing in a jailhouse courtroom, setting in motion what could be a long, drawn-out process, or an abrupt and disappointingly short one for the Martin family because of the strong legal protections contained in Florida's "stand your ground" law on self-defense.

Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20120413/D9U3N3HG1.html

Stringer_Bell

04-12-2012, 09:23 PM

Looks like Zimmerman followed Trayvon, stalking him and was not the one screaming for help on the 911 tapes after all according to the state...

Um, I know that Trayvon is her son and all, but your saying it "looks like..." because she supplied an affidavit saying it was his voice on tape? Weren't there witnesses at the scene (at least two) that said it was Zimmerman screaming?

All this shit would get cleared up if they just posted photos of the bullet holes. Proximity and location will tell us a lot...if your an athletic young kid, you are running AWAY when you scream for help. So if Trayvon was shot in the back, it's obvious what happened - and Zimmerman's in big trouble. If not, this overzealous prosecutor is gonna get her shit pushed in if there's a fair jury to be found in Florida.

Edit: didn't read the link, Dan. Just the quote you posted.

Wild Cobra

04-13-2012, 03:00 AM

Looks like Zimmerman followed Trayvon, stalking him and was not the one screaming for help on the 911 tapes after all according to the state...

Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20120413/D9U3N3HG1.html
First of all, this account does not fit any legal definition of stalking Propaganda Dan. Second of all, I will contend there is no was the mother knew it was her son's voice. That she assumes so because at first she thought he was a victim in an attack.

Do you really think Trayvon's mother ever heard him scream like that after puberty?

FuzzyLumpkins

04-13-2012, 04:51 AM

First of all, this account does not fit any legal definition of stalking Propaganda Dan. Second of all, I will contend there is no was the mother knew it was her son's voice. That she assumes so because at first she thought he was a victim in an attack.

Do you really think Trayvon's mother ever heard him scream like that after puberty?

Now his own mother doesn't know what he sounds like and you ignore voice recognition software that corroborates what she claims. The affidavit also says that after reviewing all the evidence that it was Zimmerman that initiated the confrontation.

those are verifiable facts of the case. nonetheless you will continue with the same tired arguments because thats what you do.

Winehole23

04-13-2012, 08:25 AM

those are verifiable facts of the case. nonetheless you will continue with the same tired arguments because thats what you do.wrong. those are only allegations until there is a verdict. prosecutors don't decide the facts in our system.

boutons_deux

04-13-2012, 08:36 AM

Z, locked and loaded, stalked M, then he got out of his vehicle and went after M on foot.

Z initiated the confrontation by getting out of the truck. He got ambushed by M Standing His Ground against Z's threat.

I'm still waiting for the ALEC and the NRA to put out press releases recommending that all "young black males" carry guns so they have equal firepower against fat beaners.

boutons_deux

04-13-2012, 09:18 AM

Oklahoma State Senator Justifies Need For ‘Open Carry’ Gun Law Due To Threat From Wild Turkeys

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Wild-Turkey-Cades-Cove.jpg

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/04/13/464053/oklahoma-state-senator-justifies-need-for-open-carry-gun-law-due-to-threat-from-wild-turkeys/

red-states! who needs stand-up comedy! :lol

Wild Cobra

04-14-2012, 04:56 PM

Am I the only one where who is offended by the media for using the same old pictures of Trayvon Martin, that looks like he's 12 to 14 years old, with the Jersey on from Hollister Florida, rather than a newer picture of him when he played on the football team in Miami?

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2012/04/14/news/web_photos/13.1n005.trayvon--300x300.jpg

http://www.hlntv.com/sites/default/files/2012/03/15/trayvon-martin.jpg

Not looking so much like a kid here:

http://www.usmagazine.com/uploads/assets/articles/50752-trayvon-martin-stars-rally-for-justice-for-slain-17-year-old/1332614213_trayvon-martin-b.jpg

ElNono

04-14-2012, 04:59 PM

Offended? No

Wild Cobra

04-14-2012, 05:01 PM

Offended? No
Well, it offends my intelligence. I thought other intelligent people would feel the same way.

ElNono

04-14-2012, 05:05 PM

Well, it offends my intelligence. I thought other intelligent people would feel the same way.

How could it offend what you don't have?

Wild Cobra

04-14-2012, 05:15 PM

How could it offend what you don't have?
Yep, I knew you would say something to that effect. You are always the antagonist. why should I expect your ethics to improve any. I wish we could have civil discussions, but I guess you want to be the bully.

ElNono

04-14-2012, 05:17 PM

You're offended by a portrait. I rest my case.

Wild Cobra

04-14-2012, 05:21 PM

You're offended by a portrait. I rest my case.
Aren't you familiar with the uses of a phrase like "an insult to my intelligence?" The clear insult is that they portray Martin as looking younger that he is. That adds to the bias. It's effectively a lie, and should be an insult to any reasonable person, to be given false impressions.

Here I thought you were somewhat intelligent, but you can't see past your nose. I shouldn't have had to spell that out.

ElNono

04-14-2012, 05:25 PM

You're offended by a portrait.

ElNono

04-14-2012, 05:25 PM

a portrait

Wild Cobra

04-14-2012, 05:28 PM

I see you either don't understand the point I'm making, or you refuse to acknowledge it.

Fine by me. Just another example of you poor intelligence and/or ethics.

ElNono

04-14-2012, 05:28 PM

portrait

Wild Cobra

04-14-2012, 05:29 PM

Bye ElKnowNo.

I prefer not to argue today.

Spurminator

04-14-2012, 05:30 PM

I find your intelligence to be very selective in what it chooses to be offended by.

ElNono

04-14-2012, 05:41 PM

Bye ElKnowNo.

sick burn. your intelligence really showing, lol

FuzzyLumpkins

04-14-2012, 06:31 PM

wrong. those are only allegations until there is a verdict. prosecutors don't decide the facts in our system.

Fair enough. Yet it is still their position. They obviously do not buy the alleged testimony from Zimmerman that he was walking towards the car. That makes him a liar.

spursncowboys

04-14-2012, 07:32 PM

You're offended by a portrait. I rest my case.

To be honest, I believe myself to be an intelligent person. I would be offended, except for the low opinion I have for the media. Yeah just a portrait but it is a portrayal of a young 14 year old kid, as opposed to a young 17 year old kid. I would be just as offended if they showed the picture of him flicking the camera off, if not for my stated reasons above.

ElNono

04-14-2012, 07:57 PM

To be honest, I believe myself to be an intelligent person. I would be offended, except for the low opinion I have for the media. Yeah just a portrait but it is a portrayal of a young 14 year old kid, as opposed to a young 17 year old kid. I would be just as offended if they showed the picture of him flicking the camera off, if not for my stated reasons above.

He's dead. It's him on both portraits. They could show a mug shot, it's still the same damn thing.

Intelligent people don't draw conclusions over a person they know nothing about by just looking at a photo. With that in mind, whichever photo is shown shouldn't make a difference. Unless you're retarded like WC.

spursncowboys

04-14-2012, 08:02 PM

Every advertiser in the world just read your post and pissed in the pants laughing so hard.

Congrats.

I will hold your view in very high regard.

ElNono

04-14-2012, 08:07 PM

Every advertiser in the world just read your post and pissed in the pants laughing so hard.

Congrats.

I will hold your view in very high regard.

So you're the kind that buys stuff because Chuck Norris told you to?

That sounds really intelligent. :lmao

Congrats

BradLohaus

04-14-2012, 08:24 PM

They obviously do not buy the alleged testimony from Zimmerman that he was walking towards the car. That makes him a liar.

Nonsense, but it does pretty much sum up the MSM reporting on this case.

Here's some of the original local news reports; first I've seen of it.

zK3ZdDEfjzg

Wild Cobra

04-14-2012, 09:00 PM

LOL...

The voice was not his son's...

Case closed. Zimmerman walks.

spursncowboys

04-14-2012, 09:25 PM

So you're the kind that buys stuff because Chuck Norris told you to?

That sounds really intelligent. :lmao

Congrats

Everybody is marketed to, in some form or another. The fact that you think you aren't...:lmao

Blake

04-14-2012, 09:30 PM

So you're the kind that buys stuff because Chuck Norris told you to?

That sounds really intelligent. :lmao

Congrats

I know the world won't end in 2012 because my Chuck Norris brand mayonnaise doesn't expire until 2013.

spursncowboys

04-14-2012, 10:01 PM

That'swhen it expires because thats the year Chuck Norris is switching back to Miracle Whip.

spursncowboys

04-14-2012, 10:03 PM

Ghosts sit around the campfire and tell Chuck Norris stories.

FuzzyLumpkins

04-14-2012, 11:10 PM

Nonsense, but it does pretty much sum up the MSM reporting on this case.

Here's some of the original local news reports; first I've seen of it.

zK3ZdDEfjzg

Its what the affidavit submitted to the court said. It may be fun to call it nonsense but that is what they told the court. Zimmer confronted Martin.

That newsreport does not even mention Zimmerman much less what he reported to the police. Its been widely publicized that Zimmerman claimed to be returning to his car when Martin jumped him. the affidavit says that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation.

If they claim that then that contravenes Zimmerman's testimony. its really not that ahrd to figure out.

FuzzyLumpkins

04-14-2012, 11:15 PM

LOL...

The voice was not his son's...

Case closed. Zimmerman walks.

On what basis do you make that claim?

The reason why I ask is you often are full of shit. Are you ever going to tell me what court case had a verdict of innocent?

I have heard of two separate voice analysis that concluded that the voice was not Zimmerman's. Also as it states in the affidavit that his mother reported to police that it was her son's voice.

So what evidence do have you heard of?

Wild Cobra

04-14-2012, 11:38 PM

Idiot Fuzzy didn't watch the video where Martin's father said the yells for help was not his son's voice..

LOL...

LOL...

Any idea what the defense will do with that?

ElNono

04-14-2012, 11:45 PM

Everybody is marketed to, in some form or another. The fact that you think you aren't...:lmao

You think you know me :lmao

You buy stuff because Chuck Norris tells you to :lmao

You think you're smart :lmao

ElNono

04-14-2012, 11:46 PM

I know the world won't end in 2012 because my Chuck Norris brand mayonnaise doesn't expire until 2013.

zing... BTW, did your intelligence ever felt offended by the portrait of a person you know nothing about? :lol

FuzzyLumpkins

04-14-2012, 11:50 PM

So here we go. The law as is worked. Now we non-Floridians can stop demanding that they change their laws.

Idiot Fuzzy didn't watch the video where Martin's father said the yells for help was not his son's voice..

LOL...

LOL...

Any idea what the defense will do with that?

Can link that video because i did a cursory google seach and didn't find video of martin's father saying that. Also if its not his voice and its not Zimmerman's voice is there another option that maybe someone else was yelling for help? i don't presume to know. All i know is that the affidavit said that it was Martin's voice according to his mother.

Have you read the police reports or anything?

FuzzyLumpkins

04-15-2012, 12:24 AM

I did find this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trayvon-martins-parents-talk-with-the-post-814/2012/03/28/gIQA9e8ngS_video.html

He didn't say that there.

ju3XIpipHBU

At the 3:20 point here his father says hes sure that its his son's voice. Now i realize a lot of the rest of the video is gratuitous but that seems fairly straightforward to me.

I think your making shit up about this supposed video of Martin's father. You do like making shit up.

Wild Cobra

04-15-2012, 01:37 AM

ElNono

04-15-2012, 02:24 AM

What the police wrote down might entirely be based on different accounts, including Zimmerman's... at that time it's the information they had.

On that little video also says that Martin attacked Zimmerman, while the indictment says the contrary. Thus it's not out of the realm that new information was found that contradicts somebody's statement.

No cop is "risking their career" by producing such report and if anybody lied, it will come up at trial.

Wild Cobra

04-15-2012, 03:10 AM

How many people have seen these?

Apparently, he was actually suspended from school for being violent to a bus driver. At least according to one of the twitter or Facebook exchanges.

Was Trayvon Martin a Drug Dealer? (http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealer)

Second Trayvon Martin Twitter feed identified (http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/second-trayvon-martin-twitter-feed-identified/)

The Daily Caller obtains Trayvon Martin’s tweets (http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/26/the-daily-caller-obtains-trayvon-martins-tweets/)

Tweets (http://www.scribd.com/doc/87133624/Trayvon-Martin-s-T33ZY-TAUGHT-M3-Tweets-The-Daily-Caller)

Trayvon Martin Case: New Details Emerge As Teen’s Record Comes Into Question; Case Compared to Duke Lacrosse Scandal (http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/320096/20120327/trayvon-martin-case-photos-new-facebook-details.htm)

Marijuana, beating claims put slain Florida teen's supporters on the defensive (http://www.newser.com/article/d9tog45o2/marijuana-beating-claims-put-slain-florida-teens-supporters-on-the-defensive.html)

Voting Form Shows George Zimmerman Is A Registered Democrat, Confounding Message Pushed By Left (http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/320318/20120327/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-democrat-hispanic-shooting.htm)

A silly random thought, but what if...

Within one of those is a story about the burglar tools and jewelry seized from martin at school. Wouldn't it be ironic if he was the one burglarizing the community Zimmerman lived in when he was visiting? I wonder if the visits and burglary dates match.

FuzzyLumpkins

04-15-2012, 03:28 AM

So you are saying the police lied on the record? Do you really think Zimmeramn was worth the police officer's career? Elder Martin however has motive to lie after the fact.

Did you watch this from post #2107?

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Misc/martinyoutube.jpg

Where is the video of Martin's father saying that? Not hearsay of whats supposedly on a police report. The man himself like you claimed there was. I imagine its the same place as your example of a verdict of innocent.

I just showed you a video where you see the man say, 'I am certain that is Trayvon's voice.' The affidavit that you have actually read says that the mother concurs with that conclusion.

Now you are attempting a smear campaign based on twitter posts?

You have video of the man and actual court documents. You counter with hearsay and twitter feeds that are attempts at unrelated defamation. You disgust me.

i have absolutely no compunction now of how i treat you. this is a precise example of how you lack ethics.

Your stalking victi.... err girlfriend leave for AZ yet?

spursncowboys

04-15-2012, 09:38 AM

You think you know me :lmao

You buy stuff because Chuck Norris tells you to :lmao

You think you're smart :lmao

whooooosh.

mingus

04-15-2012, 10:17 AM

spursncowboys

04-15-2012, 10:29 AM

When Alexander Bell invented the telephone, he had 3 missed calls from Chuck Norris

spursncowboys

04-15-2012, 10:31 AM

Chuck Norris will never have a heart attack. His heart isn't nearly foolish enough to attack him

Stringer_Bell

04-15-2012, 11:39 AM

Could the kid identify Zimemrman as neighborhood watch guy by uniform, car or something else? If I am being followed by someone I can't identify as a cop, then there is a great possbility that I would confront him, possibly leading to some altercation. However, the scenario would play out in a vastly different way if I knew he was a cop. If you are going to play the part of a cop, then we better be able to identify you in some distinct way.

You'd confront the person? You're asking to get shot or catch a case.

If you're in your own housing community, and some bitch ass ho is tracking you, you fucking run home or call for back up.

DMX7

04-15-2012, 11:42 AM

ElNono

04-15-2012, 12:08 PM

whooooosh.

:lol trying to save face now
:lol offended by a portrait

Blake

04-15-2012, 12:39 PM

zing... BTW, did your intelligence ever felt offended by the portrait of a person you know nothing about? :lol

:lol don't offend my intelligence!

Or insult it!

It's fragile, tbh. :cry

ElNono

04-15-2012, 12:52 PM

:lol don't offend my intelligence!

Or insult it!

It's fragile, tbh. :cry

It's the big bad mean media! :lol

Agloco

04-15-2012, 12:55 PM

zing... BTW, did your intelligence ever felt offended by the portrait of a person you know nothing about? :lol

I doubt that evil potatoes know much about it tbh.

mingus

04-15-2012, 12:55 PM

You'd confront the person? You're asking to get shot or catch a case.

If you're in your own housing community, and some bitch ass ho is tracking you, you fucking run home or call for back up.

You're asking a guy that's tackled someone who was going to stab someone else, been kidnapped by a gang in Vietnam, and been in a car chase with someone who has broken into my car. So yes.

Blake

04-15-2012, 12:58 PM

Idiot Fuzzy didn't watch the video where Martin's father said the yells for help was not his son's voice..

LOL...

LOL...

Any idea what the defense will do with that?

On the affidavit, the mother says it is her sons voice

Blake

04-15-2012, 01:01 PM

Wild Cobra

04-15-2012, 01:01 PM

On the affidavit, the mother says it is her sons voice
Yes, I know.

Funny how the power of suggestion works.

She hears the tape, and assumes it's her son. probably never heard her son in that type of distress that would cause him to yell like that. I'll bet when she said that, she assumes it's her some because she thought he was the victim. Kind of hard to take something like back when you then start pressuring everyone to convict.

I think the martin family will become a national joke.

The same could actually hold true for the father. Maybe he couldn't believe his son would squeal like a stuck pig.

Either way, it's in the record, and it will be a mess.

Blake

04-15-2012, 01:12 PM

I think the martin family will become a national joke.

The same could actually hold true for the father. Maybe he couldn't believe his son would squeal like a stuck pig.

Wow. You're offending my intelligence.

Wild Cobra

04-15-2012, 01:15 PM

Wow. You're offending my intelligence.
Sorry, so we disagree.

At least I'm not influential in the media, twisting a story, and I did give indication it's my opinion. Not as fact. Sorry your intelligence is so fragile.

Fabbs

04-15-2012, 01:25 PM

clambake

04-15-2012, 01:25 PM

:lmao cobra pullin for the stalker.

shocking!!!!

Blake

04-15-2012, 01:35 PM

Sorry, so we disagree.

At least I'm not influential in the media, twisting a story, and I did give indication it's my opinion. Not as fact. Sorry your intelligence is so fragile.

You're just making stuff up about the Martin family and how you think they'll soon be a joke.

It's a disgusting assumption, but coming from someone that's afraid of Black surgeons, sadly it's no surprise.

Wild Cobra

04-15-2012, 01:39 PM

WCobra and Fuzzy etc. Taking a break for a minute from what Travons father did/didn't say......

How about the news video of the witness named "John" who says he watched as "the guy on top was beating up the guy on the bottom. The guy on the bottom was yelling 'help' when i said I'm going to call 911. I went upstairs and when i came back to the window the guy on the bottom had shot the guy on top."

How the ___ is the prosecution going to spin that?

I was wondering the same thing. I was looking for newer news when I came across these:

Total of Three Witnesses have Martin Beating on Zimmerman (http://macsmind.com/wordpress/2012/04/total-of-three-witnesses-have-martin-beating-on-zimmerman/)

First paragraph:

According to a source with knowledge of the investigation in to the Trayvor Martin shooting, three witnesses have now been identified that all confirm that Martin was on top on Zimmerman before he was shot. Details are sketchy, but some of the witnesses confirm hearing Zimmerman yelling for help and one witness states that Martin could be heard yelling at Zimmerman, calling him a “honkey” and saying “You’re going to die” or some words to that effect.

Audio Expert: “No Way to Tell if Voice on 911 Tape was Zimmerman or Not” (http://macsmind.com/wordpress/2012/04/audio-expert-no-way-to-tell-if-voice-on-911-tape-was-zimmerman-or-not/)

Third paragraph:

“Under the two extremes, low and hushed and screaming, there is simply no way to say absolutely that the voice on the 911 call is Zimmerman’s but neither can you say with certainty that it’s not.”

In the analysis by Owen reported some time back, he said a 90% match is required to consider it a positive match. Made cautions. I have seen no where that this software is used to rule out a voice.

Outside the evidence part, I found this of interest:

NBC Fired Producer Over Misleading Zimmerman Tape Edit (http://themoderatevoice.com/143625/nbc-fires-producer-over-misleading-zimmerman-tape-edit/)

Wild Cobra

04-15-2012, 01:41 PM

You're just making stuff up about the Martin family and how you think they'll soon be a joke.

It's a disgusting assumption, but coming from someone that's afraid of Black surgeons, sadly it's no surprise.
You lose integrity when you bring up such stupid assumptions.

FuzzyLumpkins

04-15-2012, 01:59 PM

You lose integrity when you bring up such stupid assumptions.

You told us that you would prefer a white surgeon over a black surgeon.

Wild Cobra

04-15-2012, 02:07 PM

If Fuzzbot was replying to me, this is all I have seen of his last several posts:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Misc/ignorefuzzbot.jpg

Never anything of value to offer, only idiotic hatred.

Who's next?

FuzzyLumpkins

04-15-2012, 02:17 PM

Fabbs

04-15-2012, 02:40 PM

That supposed witness John also said they were an the grass. Zimmerman says that he was on the concrete. I have not heard Zimmerman or read anything official of what he says so I cannot be sure but if either of those two things are the case then that makes Zimmerman a liar.
Started on the concrete, ended up in the grass?
Many a physical squabble moves around a bit.

FuzzyLumpkins

04-15-2012, 02:44 PM

You told us that you would prefer a white surgeon over a black surgeon.

I think we all do. Affirmative action has done more harm to the black community than racism in some ways. Because of quotas, we cannot know if a person made certain position or jobs by merit, or by quotas.

Would you go to a black surgeon for an operation if he was a product of affirmative action? Of course this information isn't readily available, so most smart people avoid black surgeons. I wonder what type of impact this has on jobs for black. It is a form of prejudice, but it isn't racism.

Its not racism cause i used stats! :rollin

Its not eugenics cause we only tie it to govrernment aid.

And :rollin:blah:rolleyes:rollin

Thats 4 ignores. I keep my replies to him generally short precisely because I wnat others to see. Lets see how long he holds up this time.

Fabbs

04-15-2012, 02:45 PM

Whats important is that if Zimmerman did the confrontation then the stand your ground rule doesn't apply.
It doesn't?
tbh the legal laws, by the time both sides get thru twisting the laws around it becomes as one lawyer told me: "The way all trials end up. Merely both sides lawyers arguing about words".

At any rate Fuzzy, this is the land where Casey Anthony walks free. OJ walks free for offing Nicole Brown but then gets wrung up and jailed for trying to retrieve memorabilia. :rollin (Not that i mind the latter. In fact i loved it).

FuzzyLumpkins

04-15-2012, 02:46 PM

Started on the concrete, ended up in the grass?
Many a physical squabble moves around a bit.

Sure i guess maybe he hit the curb. I don't know all of the testimony and he is innocent until proven guilty but the affidavit clearly disagrees with him saying he was trying to get into his car.

spursncowboys

04-15-2012, 02:46 PM

:lol trying to save face now
:lol offended by a portrait

:lol thinking a post on a forum saves face.
:lol thinking you zinged anyone.
:lol thinking marketing doesn't affect you in any way
:lol thinking the photo of Martin wasn't a deliberate marketing manuever
:lol believing that if you don't care about a situation, then no one should

open minded if they agree with you.

FuzzyLumpkins

04-15-2012, 02:47 PM

It doesn't?
tbh the legal laws, by the time both sides get thru twisting the laws around it becomes as one lawyer told me: "The way all trials end up. Merely both sides lawyers arguing about words".

At any rate Fuzzy, this is the land where Casey Anthony walks free. OJ walks free for offing Nicole Brown but then gets wrung up and jailed for trying to retrieve memorabilia. :rollin (Not that i mind the latter. In fact i loved it).

How does one stand his ground by starting the fight? The law means that you do not have to try to escape if someone comes after you.

spursncowboys

04-15-2012, 02:50 PM

You told us that you would prefer a white surgeon over a black surgeon.

That was from an affirmative action discussion. Way to go

FuzzyLumpkins

04-15-2012, 02:57 PM

That was from an affirmative action discussion. Way to go

So you want me to find other examples of his racist shit. He was claiming he never said that. I just demonstrated that he did.

Someone else has a quote in his sig where he says he quotes WC saying knows some black people and likes them but because of statistics he does not trust trust black people he doesn't know. I guess i should find that one too.

I don't care why he is racist. Only that he is. It certainly points to his credibility. Given his credo of stats show that black people = bad people it stands to reason that plays a role on what he expects Martin, who is a black person he does not know, would do.

Creepn

04-15-2012, 03:01 PM

It doesn't?
tbh the legal laws, by the time both sides get thru twisting the laws around it becomes as one lawyer told me: "The way all trials end up. Merely both sides lawyers arguing about words".

At any rate Fuzzy, this is the land where Casey Anthony walks free. OJ walks free for offing Nicole Brown but then gets wrung up and jailed for trying to retrieve memorabilia. :rollin (Not that i mind the latter. In fact i loved it).

Except that it seems pretty clear to me that the stand your ground law does not apply to him.If he has to twist it around to make it work for him, sounds like a sign of guilt. Lmao look at who you're comparing him to.

spursncowboys

04-15-2012, 03:04 PM

So you want me to find other examples of his racist shit. He was claiming he never said that. I just demonstrated that he did.

Someone else has a quote in his sig where he says he quotes WC saying knows some black people and likes them but because of statistics he does not trust trust black people he doesn't know. I guess i should find that one too.

I don't care why he is racist. Only that he is. It certainly points to his credibility. Given his credo of stats show that black people = bad people it stands to reason that plays a role on what he expects Martin, who is a black person he does not know, would do.
You've been making as many assumptions as well

FuzzyLumpkins

04-15-2012, 03:09 PM

You've been making as many assumptions as well

Like what? That the affidavit said that Zimmerman started it or that was Martin's father on tape saying that was his son's voice or that Owens the audio forensics expert said it was a scientific certainty that it was not Zimmerman's voice?

Everything else about who said what i take with a grain of salt even as to what Zimmerman or anyone else said to police. The racist media spin I have ignored from the fbeginning and WC is a well known bigot but he doesn't matter as to anything other than a dumbass trying to come to hos racist conclusions. So what exactly am I making assumptions on?

Wild Cobra

04-15-2012, 03:09 PM

That was from an affirmative action discussion. Way to go
LOL...

That's what he said?

He thinks he's the shit, but can't get such simple facts like that strait.

Wild Cobra

04-15-2012, 03:11 PM

You've been making as many assumptions as well
LOL...

He doesn't know the meaning of "if!"

LOL...

LOL...

LOL...

Wild Cobra

04-15-2012, 03:13 PM

SnC

That was enough comedy. Please don't quote Fuzzbot anymore. I don't have a desire to see his words.

Fabbs

04-15-2012, 03:14 PM

How does one stand his ground by starting the fight? The law means that you do not have to try to escape if someone comes after you.
We don't know for a fact who started the fight.
Including you.

ElNono

04-15-2012, 03:28 PM

:lol thinking a post on a forum saves face.
:lol thinking you zinged anyone.
:lol thinking marketing doesn't affect you in any way
:lol thinking the photo of Martin wasn't a deliberate marketing manuever
:lol believing that if you don't care about a situation, then no one should

open minded if they agree with you.

:lol offended by a portrait
:lol media conspiracies
:lol intelligent

FuzzyLumpkins

04-15-2012, 03:33 PM

Here's something you can have fun with.

I don't like most black people. There are very few who I have met that grew up in a cultural setting I have any respect for. Most I have met are out right thugs, and lack integrity. I could say I don't like black people, but there are some exceptions. If I based all my decisions on statistics, I would stay clear of blacks.

Now if we go farther...

I don't like most police, lawyers, and liberals I meet. Several other classes of people I can add if I take a few moments to think about it.

Why is it I am called a racist when it deals with color, but normal dislikes when with other classifications of people?

That's not true. I meet plenty, and I dislike most I encounter. i dislike many whites I meet as well. Just not as many.

I know they aren't all thugs. I know some who are great people.

Your prejudice is showing.

I am making a factual statement, and you are taking your prejudice, and trying to lay it on me.

You don't even know what you are talking about. Racial quota's have nothing to do with me disliking most blacks I meet.

Not true. I just haven't met as many others who I think are a disgrace to society.

FuzzyLumpkins

04-15-2012, 03:34 PM

We don't know for a fact who started the fight.
Including you.

Sure but that is what the prosecution alleges. As wine reminded me, its by trial that the facts are determined. Its not a good sign that the prosecution states that.

Stringer_Bell

04-15-2012, 04:42 PM

You're asking a guy that's tackled someone who was going to stab someone else, been kidnapped by a gang in Vietnam, and been in a car chase with someone who has broken into my car. So yes.

Oh, so you weren't roleplaying as Trayvon and suggesting that it would be common for a young man to confront someone that fails to identify themselves as an authority? I see. Fair enough, your real life sounds quite exciting tbh.

Yonivore

04-15-2012, 05:40 PM

Sure but that is what the prosecution alleges. As wine reminded me, its by trial that the facts are determined. Its not a good sign that the prosecution states that.
And, judging by the affidavit, it's not a bad thing either...

For all we know, they just made that shit up ... like when they said the dispatcher told Zimmerman to wait for officers.

spursncowboys

04-15-2012, 06:49 PM

:lol offended by a portrait
:lol media conspiracies
:lol intelligent

:lol rating anyone's intelligence

FuzzyLumpkins

04-15-2012, 07:53 PM

And, judging by the affidavit, it's not a bad thing either...

For all we know, they just made that shit up ... like when they said the dispatcher told Zimmerman to wait for officers.

That would be perjury and as much media attention as this is getting that would be professional suicide.

OTOH, what do confirmation bias mean?

Yonivore

04-15-2012, 08:49 PM

That would be perjury and as much media attention as this is getting that would be professional suicide.

OTOH, what do confirmation bias mean?
Well, they said it and, if you listen to the entire 911 recording, from beginning to end, nowhere does the dispatcher instruct George Zimmerman to wait. Not once.

From the Affidavit:

"The police dispatcher informed Zimmerman that an officer was on the way and to wait for the officer."

Now, scour the 911 call transcript or recording and tell me where the dispatcher tells Zimmerman to wait.

You're right, it's perjury.

FuzzyLumpkins

04-15-2012, 09:00 PM

Well, they said it and, if you listen to the entire 911 recording, from beginning to end, nowhere does the dispatcher instruct George Zimmerman to wait. Not once.

From the Affidavit:

Now, scour the 911 call transcript or recording and tell me where the dispatcher tells Zimmerman to wait.

You're right, it's perjury.

He said 'we don't need you to do that' and if you listen to the tone it was disapproving. i could see how it could be argued. thats not the same thing as just making something up. I agree that the literal interpretation was not a command but it was obvious the dispatcher was indicating that they did not want him to follow.

the dispatcher does not have the authority to command him to stay where he was anyway so its a moot point. Zimmerman's account is mutually exclusive with the affidavit.

Fabbs

04-15-2012, 09:08 PM

He said 'we don't need you to do that' and if you listen to the tone it was disapproving.
Could be argued that dispatcher was inferring we don't "need" you to do "that". Hence meaning his doing so would be extra effort but not neccessary as a citizen. Which it was. However Zim could take that by then saying to himself "I don't mind, i don't need to stay here where it's safe. I'll go out and see where he went."

Creepn

04-15-2012, 09:20 PM

Could be argued that dispatcher was inferring we don't "need" you to do "that". Hence meaning his doing so would be extra effort but not neccessary as a citizen. Which it was. However Zim could take that by then saying to himself "I don't mind, i don't need to stay here where it's safe. I'll go out and see where he went."

lol you think the dispatcher was thinking that? That he said "need" so Zimmerman can still make the choice to go put himself in danger? Yeah it could be argued and it would be a stupid argument that insults one's intelligence and otoh can make you look really stupid and desperate to defend the indefensible.

Agloco

04-15-2012, 09:26 PM

Creepn

04-15-2012, 09:35 PM

Fabbs

04-15-2012, 09:37 PM

The word "need" really screws things up here.
Exactly. Happens every day. Someone drops a fork in a restraunt. They shouldn't *have* to pick it up. Waitress from across the room says "No no no you don't need to do that." Person who picks it up, maybe even old duffer or disabled who had a slightly difficult time picking it up says "Oh that's okay." Waitress gushes again, "Aw that's nice, you didn't need to do that."

Okay so the stakes are infinitely higher in the Travon Zimmerman Dispatcher case. I'm just concuring with your point about word use and the word "need".

Yonivore

04-15-2012, 09:47 PM

He said 'we don't need you to do that' and if you listen to the tone it was disapproving. i could see how it could be argued. thats not the same thing as just making something up. I agree that the literal interpretation was not a command but it was obvious the dispatcher was indicating that they did not want him to follow.

the dispatcher does not have the authority to command him to stay where he was anyway so its a moot point. Zimmerman's account is mutually exclusive with the affidavit.

"The police dispatcher informed Zimmerman that an officer was on the way and to wait for the officer."
The police dispatcher informed Zimmerman...to wait for the officer.

That did not happen -- it was never said, suggested, implied, or anything else but, I think it's important to establishing probable cause for the 2nd Degree Murder charge that Zimmerman be characterize as disregarding police instructions and that's why they put it in there.

I think that fits into the whole "evincing a depraved mind" element of Second Degree Murder.

Creepn

04-15-2012, 09:56 PM

The police dispatcher informed Zimmerman...to wait for the officer.

That did not happen -- it was never said, suggested, implied, or anything else but, I think it's important to establishing probable cause for the 2nd Degree Murder charge that Zimmerman be characterize as disregarding police instructions and that's why they put it in there.

I think that fits into the whole "evincing a depraved mind" element of Second Degree Murder.

Zimmerman was to wait for the officer at a location but changed his mind and asked if the cops can call him when they get there instead. Why? So he can continue to stalk a teen.

Yonivore

04-15-2012, 09:57 PM

I think he did what he was trained to do.

When I did tech support a while back fresh out of college, our training class gave us responses to say that is assertive but at the same time not to be overtly commanding to keep escalation levels down. If a computer illiterate person says something like "I'm gonna pull this wire", a valid response would be, "Ok I don't need you to do that sir". No way in my mind would I want that guy to pull that wire and I think the same applies to this dispatcher.
Nope, that's not how they're trained.

If it had been illegal for Zimmerman to do what he was doing, the dispatcher would have said; "sir, I'm going to instruct you to return to your vehicle and wait for police there."

But, the dispatcher knew Zimmerman was perfectly within his rights to be doing whatever he wanted to in the common areas of his residential neighborhood.

The dispatcher was merely covering the department's ass in the event Zimmerman happened upon a felon that killed him...which, ironically, almost happened. At least then, the dispatcher could say, "I told him he didn't need to do that..."

This dispatcher's words were to relieve the agency of anything that might have happened to the person they were talking to. They didn't have Trayvon Martin in mind, for all they knew, George Zimmerman had happened upon a burglar and, if he caught up with him, might have gotten hurt.

By the way, I'll raise another point I've been making since I listened to the 911 call. There's nothing on the call that indicates George Zimmerman didn't heed the dispatcher's admonition.

The rest of the call is calm, he doesn't sound hurried, and there's no indication he's continued to try and find the suspicious person. In fact, when the dispatcher asks for his address, he's reluctant to give it out loud because he doesn't know where the suspicious person went.

Yonivore

04-15-2012, 09:59 PM

Zimmerman was to wait for the officer at a location but changed his mind and asked if the cops can call him when they get there instead. Why? So he can continue to stalk a teen.
Or, so he could remain in the general area where he last saw the person.

mouse

04-15-2012, 10:40 PM

All these years doing security I was trained to "observe and report"

When did the rules change?

Fabbs

04-15-2012, 10:44 PM

All these years doing security I was trained to "observe and report"

When did the rules change?
You talking security guard employee W2 wage stub and the whole Federal and State shebang vs self appointed neighborhood watch guy.

Right?

Wild Cobra

04-16-2012, 02:09 AM

The dispatcher screwed the pooch imo. It was an unfortunate choice of words which was just ambiguous enough to be debatable.

In most any context though, "We don't need you to do that" implies that you halt whatever action prompted the comment in the first place. That would be especially true in the context of this case.

The word "need" really screws things up here.
No.

The dispatcher protected the department from liability. If the dispatcher said no, and the "suspect" committed a crime, they could be sued. Same as if they said, "yes, please continuing following for us." They could then be liable if Zimmerman was hurt.

Wild Cobra

04-16-2012, 02:10 AM

The police dispatcher informed Zimmerman...to wait for the officer.

That did not happen -- it was never said, suggested, implied, or anything else but, I think it's important to establishing probable cause for the 2nd Degree Murder charge that Zimmerman be characterize as disregarding police instructions and that's why they put it in there.

I think that fits into the whole "evincing a depraved mind" element of Second Degree Murder.
Fuzzbot is a chronic lair. Why are you debating the dipshit?

Jacob1983

04-16-2012, 02:40 AM

Why hasn't anyone thought about the possibility that Zimmerman may be a freakin psycho and was having a blood lust episode so he picked a target and took the target out?

ElNono

04-16-2012, 02:57 AM

No.

The dispatcher protected the department from liability. If the dispatcher said no, and the "suspect" committed a crime, they could be sued. Same as if they said, "yes, please continuing following for us." They could then be liable if Zimmerman was hurt.

911 is normally operated by PSAP, under city or county jurisdiction, not the police department.

BTW, liability exists both ways. The Martin family could sue the 911 operator for not being assertive enough in telling Mr Zimmerman to stop pursuing his "suspect".

Furthermore, 911 lawsuits are fairly common and some states grant full immunity to 911 operators (don't know about Florida, but NJ definitely does) exactly because of that.

All in all, your theory of "wanting to avoid liability" reeks of uneducated guess.

Wild Cobra

04-16-2012, 03:33 AM

Why hasn't anyone thought about the possibility that Zimmerman may be a freakin psycho and was having a blood lust episode so he picked a target and took the target out?
Anything is possible. I just see it as pretty unlikely.

Isn't it more likely that would be Martin's trip? How did he lose the front of his teeth to have them replaced with gold?

Wild Cobra

04-16-2012, 03:35 AM

911 is normally operated by PSAP, under city or county jurisdiction, not the police department.

BTW, liability exists both ways. The Martin family could sue the 911 operator for not being assertive enough in telling Mr Zimmerman to stop pursuing his "suspect".

Furthermore, 911 lawsuits are fairly common and some states grant full immunity to 911 operators (don't know about Florida, but NJ definitely does) exactly because of that.

All in all, your theory of "wanting to avoid liability" reeks of uneducated guess.
Once again...

He did not dial 911.

Why the hell can't people keep the facts strait?

He called the non-emergency police line.

Yonivore

04-16-2012, 07:45 AM

Why hasn't anyone thought about the possibility that Zimmerman may be a freakin psycho and was having a blood lust episode so he picked a target and took the target out?
Psychos don't normally try to involve the police until after they've, uh, taken "the target out."

Fabbs

04-16-2012, 09:42 AM

Why hasn't anyone thought about the possibility that Zimmerman may be a freakin psycho and was having a blood lust episode so he picked a target and took the target out?
Is it possible, not saying he was, repeat is it possible that Trayvon was stalking the 'hood looking for some burglary action?

Fabbs

04-16-2012, 09:43 AM

What's the latest with Zimmermans website?
Raising dough to pay for his defense.

Yonivore

04-16-2012, 09:46 AM

Is it possible, not saying he was, repeat is it possible that Trayvon was stalking the 'hood looking for some burglary action?
Yep.

cantthinkofanything

04-16-2012, 09:49 AM

Is it possible, not saying he was, repeat is it possible that Trayvon was stalking the 'hood looking for some burglary action?

It doesn't matter.

Blake

04-16-2012, 09:50 AM

Is it possible, not saying he was, repeat is it possible that Trayvon was stalking the 'hood looking for some burglary action?

Shoot him!

Yonivore

04-16-2012, 09:52 AM

It doesn't matter.
Yep, no more than it matters that Zimmerman was following what he described to police as a suspicious person in a neighborhood experiencing a rash of property crimes.

Yonivore

04-16-2012, 09:53 AM

Shoot him!
Especially when he's on top of you beating your head against the concrete.

Yonivore

04-16-2012, 09:54 AM

Once again...

He did not dial 911.

Why the hell can't people keep the facts strait?

He called the non-emergency police line.
Not a fact of which I was aware but, it's not relevant because he still reached the police.

Blake

04-16-2012, 09:56 AM

Especially when he's on top of you beating your head against the concrete.

Naw, stalking the hood with a bag of fruit flavored candy is enough!

cantthinkofanything

04-16-2012, 09:57 AM

Yep, no more than it matters that Zimmerman was following what he described to police as a suspicious person in a neighborhood experiencing a rash of property crimes.

No arguments here.

clambake

04-16-2012, 10:05 AM

maybe he's got an axe to grind. projects his failures on society. he lives at home with mommy and daddy, basically has no life.

Fabbs

04-16-2012, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Blake
Shoot him!

Especially when he's on top of you beating your head against the concrete.
:lol nicely done Yoni.

ChumpDumper

04-16-2012, 10:12 AM

Yoni sides against the black kid.

Shocking.

ChumpDumper

04-16-2012, 10:15 AM

Is it possible, not saying he was, repeat is it possible that Trayvon was stalking the 'hood looking for some burglary action?Is it possible, not saying he was, repeat is it possible that Zimmerman was looking for an excuse to use the gun he was hiding from public view as some kind of Death Wish fantasy?

DisAsTerBot

04-16-2012, 10:39 AM

Is it possible, not saying he was, repeat is it possible that Zimmerman was looking for an excuse to use the gun he was hiding from public view as some kind of Death Wish fantasy?

you realize he was doing what you just did to the original question, right?

but im sure you think youre still so clever!

ChumpDumper

04-16-2012, 10:46 AM

you realize he was doing what you just did to the original question, right?Yes. It's actually a different possibility. I don't believe Bronson's character was psychotic.

but im sure you think youre still so clever!"im" sure "youre" not.

Trill Clinton

04-16-2012, 10:55 AM

Anything is possible. I just see it as pretty unlikely.

Isn't it more likely that would be Martin's trip? How did he lose the front of his teeth to have them replaced with gold?

He had his teeth replaced? Didn't hear about that, maybe he was wearing a pull out "grill"?

DisAsTerBot

04-16-2012, 11:02 AM

Yes. It's actually a different possibility. I don't believe Bronson's character was psychotic.

lol, nice save

[QUOTE=ChumpDumper;5793216]"im" sure "youre" not.

lol, punctuation smack. clever!

Fabbs

04-16-2012, 11:04 AM

you realize he was doing what you just did to the original question, right?

but im sure you think youre still so clever!
:lol Rumphumper having an original thought or being genuinely clever. Maybe he'll have a 1st time.
Oh oh you pissed her off now DisAsterBot. She's in grammar and spellchecker police mode! :lmao

ChumpDumper

04-16-2012, 11:05 AM

lol, nice savelol sorry you needed an explanation

lol, punctuation smack. clever!And capitalization tbh.

DisAsTerBot

04-16-2012, 11:10 AM

lol sorry you needed an explanation

And capitalization tbh.

quit trying to save face.
You obviously quoted "im" and "youre"....punctuation tbh, sorry you needed an explanation

ChumpDumper

04-16-2012, 11:11 AM

quit trying to save face.
You obviously quoted "im" and "youre"....punctuation tbh, sorry you needed an explanationYou still don't know that I'm uses a capital I?

Sorry you couldn't even understand the explanation.

DisAsTerBot

04-16-2012, 11:17 AM

lol ok, you obviously can't admit when you're wrong. I must've not really seen the quotes around "im" AND "youre" and you obviously aren't the type of person to back pedal.

ChumpDumper

04-16-2012, 11:23 AM

lol ok, you obviously can't admit when you're wrong. I must've not really seen the quotes around "im" AND "youre" and you obviously aren't the type of person to back pedal.There's nothing to backpedal from.

The acknowledgement of punctuation smack was implicit and I informed you that there was also capitalization smack.

All this was after the slightly more substantive argument about Bronson/Zimmerman.

I really can't believe you need this all explained to you more than once.

Let me know if you need anything else about it explained again. Seems very important to you.

cantthinkofanything

04-16-2012, 11:34 AM

There's nothing to backpedal from.

The acknowledgement of punctuation smack was implicit and I informed you that there was also capitalization smack.

All this was after the slightly more substantive argument about Bronson/Zimmerman.

I really can't believe you need this all explained to you more than once.

Let me know if you need anything else about it explained again. Seems very important to you.

All hamburgers are sandwiches but all sandwiches are NOT hamburgers.

Edit: All hamburgers may not be sandwiches. I'll come back to you on that one.

Update: By the loosest definition, I think it's safe to say all hamburgers are sandwiches.

Yonivore

04-16-2012, 12:02 PM

Naw, stalking the hood with a bag of fruit flavored candy is enough!
Well then, perhaps Martin overachieved with the assault. Because, if stalking around with a bag of Skillets (Sharpton renamed the candy) is enough, Zimmerman could have put him down without all the physical pain and fearing for his life nonsense.

Seriously, what the fuck do Skittles or hoodies have to do with this?

ChumpDumper

04-16-2012, 12:03 PM

Seriously, what the fuck do Skittles or hoodies have to do with this?Skittles are what he was packing.

Hoodie was what he was wearing.

Seriously.

Wild Cobra

04-16-2012, 03:19 PM

Yoni sides against the black kid.

Shocking.
Are you suggesting we side with martin to be politically correct?

ElNono

04-16-2012, 03:19 PM

He did not dial 911.

Why the hell can't people keep the facts strait?

He called the non-emergency police line.

How that proves the operator was trying to avoid liability?

Oh right, it doesn't.

ChumpDumper

04-16-2012, 03:22 PM

Are you suggesting we side with martin to be politically correct?http://discovermagazine.com/2004/apr/keith-black/black_portrait.jpg

Yonivore

04-16-2012, 03:25 PM

Are you suggesting we side with martin to be politically correct?
Yep...it looks like that's what it's suggesting.

ElNono

04-16-2012, 03:27 PM

I thought you said you weren't siding with anybody, Yoni...

Why the sudden change of heart?

ChumpDumper

04-16-2012, 03:29 PM

Yep...it looks like that's what it's suggesting.Actually, I'm saying there's pretty much no way you would've sided with the black kid due to your gas station PTSD.

Yonivore

04-16-2012, 03:39 PM

I thought you said you weren't siding with anybody, Yoni...

Why the sudden change of heart?
Because I agreed with the premise Chumpbait was suggesting I was or, did I say something else somewhere else in the thread?

DISCLAIMER: I don't believe we have enough of the facts to know who started the altercation that escalated to George Zimmerman shooting Trayvon Martin. But, after consuming everything I could, in the public domain, I think it's more probable Zimmerman's story is accurate than any scenario that results in him murdering Martin.

If that's siding with Zimmerman, oh well. I just think it's applying critical thinking to the known facts, combined with my not insignificant experience in the field, and expressing a somewhat educated opinion.

All other things being equal, had Martin been the 28 year-old neighborhood watchman and Zimmerman the 17 year-old suspicious person, I would believe the same way.

clambake

04-16-2012, 03:42 PM

i think there might be enough evidence to more than merely suggest that george was out hunting for a victim to satisfy his appetite.

FuzzyLumpkins

04-16-2012, 03:44 PM

Fuzzbot is a chronic lair. Why are you debating the dipshit?

When i call Darrin a liar it because he knowingly told us something was from BEST, used that misinformation to ridicule us for about a day and then it came to light that the graph was from a Guardian mailer and put together from them.

That was a obvious unmistakable lie in an attempt to falsify credibility in a discussion of a topic. It is what it is and I still call him on it. Its obvious that in these arguments he will willfully lie to support his claims.

When i call you stupid, its because you change parts on generators yet do not understand the properties of flywheels and capacitors or give credence to the notion that combustion in the troposphere from solar wind caused Noah's flood, or hit on a woman by revealing you stalk her, or put together cheesy graphs from data that you don't understand or think sterilizing the poor is not eugenics.

Now if you are going to make claims about me being a liar then the honorable thing would be to actually point to something that I lie about. Anything really.

Yonivore

04-16-2012, 03:45 PM

i think there might be enough evidence to more than merely suggest that george was out hunting for a victim to satisfy his appetite.
And stupid statements like this aren't persuasive in the least.

clambake

04-16-2012, 03:46 PM

well, cobra kinda has to defend this george guy.

after all, he's a colleague!!!!!

Wild Cobra

04-16-2012, 03:47 PM

i think there might be enough evidence to more than merely suggest that george was out hunting for a victim to satisfy his appetite.
Do you realize the police were there very soon after the shot was fired? That would be really ballsy of Zimmerman to call the police enough in advance to possible be caught red handed.

If you don't believe me, listen to all the 911 calls that others made. I believe at least two of them sees flashlights going that way right after the shooting

FuzzyLumpkins

04-16-2012, 03:47 PM

Because I agreed with the premise Chumpbait was suggesting I was or, did I say something else somewhere else in the thread?

DISCLAIMER: I don't believe we have enough of the facts to know who started the altercation that escalated to George Zimmerman shooting Trayvon Martin. But, after consuming everything I could, in the public domain, I think it's more probable Zimmerman's story is accurate than any scenario that results in him murdering Martin.

If that's siding with Zimmerman, oh well. I just think it's applying critical thinking to the known facts, combined with my not insignificant experience in the field, and expressing a somewhat educated opinion.

All other things being equal, had Martin been the 28 year-old neighborhood watchman and Zimmerman the 17 year-old suspicious person, I would believe the same way.

If you truly have professional experience then you should know that when its obvious that you have little of the 'facts' and that the public domain is full of conflicting information that the prudent thing would be to withold judgement. Its irresponsible.

You have a horse in this race and its Zimmerman. This is nothing more than cheers as they round the first bend.

FuzzyLumpkins

04-16-2012, 03:48 PM

Actually, I'm saying there's pretty much no way you would've sided with the black kid due to your gas station PTSD.

Lol what gas station PTSD?

clambake

04-16-2012, 03:48 PM

And stupid statements like this aren't persuasive in the least.

sorry you're upset yoni.

all we know for sure is that this guy was out with his gun....looking for prey....found prey....stalked prey.....killed prey.

these are known facts.

clambake

04-16-2012, 03:49 PM

Do you realize the police were there very soon after the shot was fired? That would be really ballsy of Zimmerman to call the police enough in advance to possible be caught red handed.

If you don't believe me, listen to all the 911 calls that others made. I believe at least two of them sees flashlights going that way right after the shooting

george doesn't seem to care. he went hunting.

Wild Cobra

04-16-2012, 03:50 PM

sorry you're upset yoni.

all we know for sure is that this guy was out with his gun....looking for prey....found prey....stalked prey.....killed prey.

these are known facts.

The only fact is he had a gun, and killed. If you have facts to indicate Martin was prey, then you need to go and testify.

clambake

04-16-2012, 03:52 PM

The only fact is he had a gun, and killed. If you have facts to indicate Martin was prey, then you need to go and testify.

he stalked the guy. of all people......i don't need to tell you.

clambake

04-16-2012, 03:53 PM

Lol what gas station PTSD?

a life altering moment in yoni world.

Wild Cobra

04-16-2012, 03:53 PM

he stalked the guy. of all people......i don't need to tell you.
I think you need to look up the words "stalk," stalking," and the legal defined usage of "stalking." You will find you are wrong. I'm not going to bother linking it for you. I find it funny how often you prove your ignorance to everyone here.

Yonivore

04-16-2012, 03:55 PM

Lol what gas station PTSD?
It's fixated on a story I told several years ago about a frightening encounter I had with an African-American at a gas station in Inglewood, California -- shortly after the Rodney King riots.

I forget the context in which I told the story but, since it's the only time I've every related a personal experience where I thought I was being singled out -- and threatened -- by a black person, because I was white, it has latched on and just won't let go.

Nevermind the stories I've never told about my encounters with African-Americans where race wasn't a factor so it wasn't important. In the case of the gas station story, race was a factor so I told the story.

Chumpy has built a legend around that thread.

clambake

04-16-2012, 03:57 PM

I think you need to look up the words "stalk," stalking," and the legal defined usage of "stalking." You will find you are wrong. I'm not going to bother linking it for you. I find it funny how often you prove your ignorance to everyone here.

i don't need to do that. and i know how sensitive the stalking subject is to you.

i'm sure george wouldn't like the label. just as you hate being one.

FuzzyLumpkins

04-16-2012, 04:01 PM

I think you need to look up the words "stalk," stalking," and the legal defined usage of "stalking." You will find you are wrong. I'm not going to bother linking it for you. I find it funny how often you prove your ignorance to everyone here.

It actually would be menacing.

Stalking is repeated actions like looking up someones personal information and address and then repeatedly sending them unwanted emails.

Wild Cobra

04-16-2012, 04:02 PM

i don't need to do that. and i know how sensitive the stalking subject is to you.

i'm sure george wouldn't like the label. just as you hate being one.

So you admit that you are just being a bully again.

I think you should grow up. This isn't grade school you know.

clambake

04-16-2012, 04:02 PM

It's fixated on a story I told several years ago about a frightening encounter I had with an African-American at a gas station in Inglewood, California -- shortly after the Rodney King riots.

I forget the context in which I told the story but, since it's the only time I've every related a personal experience where I thought I was being singled out -- and threatened -- by a black person, because I was white, it has latched on and just won't let go.

Nevermind the stories I've never told about my encounters with African-Americans where race wasn't a factor so it wasn't important. In the case of the gas station story, race was a factor so I told the story.

Chumpy has built a legend around that thread.

i'll remind you of the context. its where your racism shined brightly!!!

although i give you props for your 15 minutes of "cracker for cain"

Spurminator

04-16-2012, 04:03 PM

You have a horse in this race and its Zimmerman. This is nothing more than cheers as they round the first bend.

Well put.

Too many people have their heels dug in one way or the other. Not sure what the hurry is.

You can blame the media, and they certainly have not treated this story with much restraint or journalistic integrity, but the media machine runs on ratings, clicks, feedback, and other performance indicators that drive ad revenue, all of which are in the public's control.

FuzzyLumpkins

04-16-2012, 04:04 PM

It's fixated on a story I told several years ago about a frightening encounter I had with an African-American at a gas station in Inglewood, California -- shortly after the Rodney King riots.

I forget the context in which I told the story but, since it's the only time I've every related a personal experience where I thought I was being singled out -- and threatened -- by a black person, because I was white, it has latched on and just won't let go.

Nevermind the stories I've never told about my encounters with African-Americans where race wasn't a factor so it wasn't important. In the case of the gas station story, race was a factor so I told the story.

Chumpy has built a legend around that thread.

So you have PTSD related to the incident and think you can be objective about a confrontation between a black man and a white man where the allegations are unclear?

Sorry that happened but its pretty textbook inherent bias.

Wild Cobra

04-16-2012, 04:08 PM

Well put.

Too many people have their heels dug in one way or the other. Not sure what the hurry is.

You can blame the media, and they certainly have not treated this story with much restraint or journalistic integrity, but the media machine runs on ratings, clicks, feedback, and other performance indicators that drive ad revenue, all of which are in the public's control.
I don't have my heels dug in, I'm just believing Zimmerman's story over the Lynch mob's. That will change if the facts dictate so.

Spurminator

04-16-2012, 04:09 PM

I don't have my heels dug in, I'm just believing Zimmerman's story over the Lynch mob's.

You have 230 posts in this thread. Your heels are dug in.

boutons_deux

04-16-2012, 04:17 PM

"Stalking is repeated actions like looking up someones personal information and address and then repeatedly sending them unwanted emails."

that's online stalking, harassment.

stalking is traditionally. primarily physically shadowing, trailing or watching someone.

Blake

04-16-2012, 04:19 PM

I think you need to look up the words "stalk," stalking," and the legal defined usage of "stalking." You will find you are wrong. I'm not going to bother linking it for you. I find it funny how often you prove your ignorance to everyone here.

verb (used with object) 2. to pursue (a person or animal) stealthily

.....unless the prey is on a flaglot

Yonivore

04-16-2012, 04:22 PM

.....unless the prey is on a flaglot
Zimmerman wasn't acting "stealthily."

In fact, according to the girlfriend, Martin was aware of Zimmerman's presence pretty early on. The police knew what Zimmerman was doing. And, by all accounts, Zimmerman was walking out in the open, common areas of the neighborhood.

What's stealth about that?

ElNono

04-16-2012, 04:23 PM

DISCLAIMER: I don't believe we have enough of the facts to know who started the altercation that escalated to George Zimmerman shooting Trayvon Martin. But, after consuming everything I could, in the public domain, I think it's more probable Zimmerman's story is accurate than any scenario that results in him murdering Martin.

If that's siding with Zimmerman, oh well. I just think it's applying critical thinking to the known facts, combined with my not insignificant experience in the field, and expressing a somewhat educated opinion.

All other things being equal, had Martin been the 28 year-old neighborhood watchman and Zimmerman the 17 year-old suspicious person, I would believe the same way.

So you're "applying critical thinking" to the "known facts" that yourself don't think are enough "to know who started the altercation that escalated to George Zimmerman shooting Trayvon Martin".

ElNono

04-16-2012, 04:24 PM

I think you need to look up the words "stalk," stalking," and the legal defined usage of "stalking."

Pot meet Kettle. You should've done that before stalking that online chick.

ElNono

04-16-2012, 04:26 PM

Yonivore

04-16-2012, 04:26 PM

So you have PTSD related to the incident and think you can be objective about a confrontation between a black man and a white man where the allegations are unclear?

Sorry that happened but its pretty textbook inherent bias.
I've never claimed PTSD, that's ChumpDumper's characterization after several years of hyperbole. Hell, I've never claimed any residual discomfort from the encounter.

Apparently, I believed it fit the context of the thread, so I told the story.

ChumpDumper

04-16-2012, 04:29 PM

I've never claimed PTSD, that's ChumpDumper's characterization after several years of hyperbole. Hell, I've never claimed any residual discomfort from the encounter.Sufferers of PTSD often live in denial for years after the initial trauma.

Apparently, I believed it fit the context of the thread, so I told the story.The context was "I'm a victim too!"

Yonivore

04-16-2012, 04:32 PM

If you truly have professional experience then you should know that when its obvious that you have little of the 'facts' and that the public domain is full of conflicting information that the prudent thing would be to withold judgement. Its irresponsible.

You have a horse in this race and its Zimmerman. This is nothing more than cheers as they round the first bend.
I never said we have "little of the facts." We are missing a few critical facts surrounding the moment of the altercation.

The facts we do know tend to support Zimmerman's account.

The content of the call to police is a fact.

The injuries to Zimmerman are facts.

Listening to the 911 call and looking at the layout of the area of the neighborhood where the shooting took place, cause me to speculate Zimmerman's account is probable.

It's not my fault he's Hispanic and Martin is black. Like I've said, give what we know, I'd still believe the way I do.

Could I be wrong? Sure.

Yonivore

04-16-2012, 04:33 PM

So you're "applying critical thinking" to the "known facts" that yourself don't think are enough "to know who started the altercation that escalated to George Zimmerman shooting Trayvon Martin".
I've never stated I "knew" who started the altercation. All I've suggested is what we know is consistent with Zimmerman's claim of self-defense.

clambake

04-16-2012, 04:51 PM

I've never stated I "knew" who started the altercation. All I've suggested is what we know is consistent with Zimmerman's claim of self-defense.

what we know as fact is that he stalked the kid and killed him.

zimmerman can say whatever he wants since he killed the other guy that knows.

Blake

04-16-2012, 05:01 PM

Zimmerman wasn't acting "stealthily."

In fact, according to the girlfriend, Martin was aware of Zimmerman's presence pretty early on. The police knew what Zimmerman was doing. And, by all accounts, Zimmerman was walking out in the open, common areas of the neighborhood.

What's stealth about that?

Main Entry: 2 stealth Function: adjective Date: 1987 : intended not to attract attention

Maybe it's possible that Zimmerman simply sucked at it.

FuzzyLumpkins

04-16-2012, 05:13 PM

I never said we have "little of the facts." We are missing a few critical facts surrounding the moment of the altercation.

The facts we do know tend to support Zimmerman's account.

The content of the call to police is a fact.

The injuries to Zimmerman are facts.

Listening to the 911 call and looking at the layout of the area of the neighborhood where the shooting took place, cause me to speculate Zimmerman's account is probable.

It's not my fault he's Hispanic and Martin is black. Like I've said, give what we know, I'd still believe the way I do.

Could I be wrong? Sure.

You evidence of the injuries are a grainy video and hearsay. You have a report form a medical examiner? It is nice that the evidence of the affidavit is deemed by you to be a lie because you looked at google maps and a 911 call.

Do you even know what Zimmerman actually told police? You privy to the police report?

All i see here is you picking and choosing which news reports you like, insert 'plausible' and call it a day.

Yonivore

04-16-2012, 05:17 PM

You evidence of the injuries are a grainy video and hearsay.
The responding officer's report stating Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and back of his head is hearsay?

You have a report form a medical examiner? It is nice that the evidence of the affidavit is deemed by you to be a lie because you looked at google maps and a 911 call.

Do you even know what Zimmerman actually told police? You privy to the police report?

All i see here is you picking and choosing which news reports you like, insert 'plausible' and call it a day.
Which reports am I ignoring that say Zimmerman murdered Martin? What evidence am I overlooking? What facts, in the public domain, support the affidavit?

FuzzyLumpkins

04-16-2012, 05:22 PM

The responding officer's report stating Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and back of his head is hearsay?

Which reports am I ignoring that say Zimmerman murdered Martin? What evidence am I overlooking? What facts, in the public domain, support the affidavit?

Where did you see the responding officers report or hear from him directly?

You are not privy to any of that information is the point yet you fill in the gaps by picking and choosing which hearsay you prefer.

CosmicCowboy

04-16-2012, 05:30 PM

Where did you see the responding officers report or hear from him directly?

You are not privy to any of that information is the point yet you fill in the gaps by picking and choosing which hearsay you prefer.

:lmao

pot, meet kettle

FuzzyLumpkins

04-16-2012, 05:33 PM

:lmao

pot, meet kettle

What claims have i made as to what happened or if Zimmerman is guilty?

All I have said is that its not good news for the Zimmerman camp that the affidavit says he initiated the confrontation and that also that there was conflicting reports within the hearsay and everything else.

For example the Orlando Sentinel claims that police told them that Martin's father said its not his son's voice. In an interview where we can see him sayit, Martin's father says he is sure it was his son's voice.

The OS claims the police report said that Zimmerman said that he was returning to his car when Martin jumped him. The affidavit which we all can read it says that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation.

I really do not know what happened and i am okay with that. I certainly am not prepared to pass judgement or pick a horse.

You care to point to something specifically or you just going to leave the gross characterization?

Blake

04-16-2012, 05:37 PM

CosmicKettle

Yonivore

04-16-2012, 05:39 PM

Where did you see the responding officers report or hear from him directly?

http://www.wagist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Twin-Lakes-Shooting-Initial-Report.pdf

See the officer's narrative on page 3 of 4.

He described Zimmerman's injuries and states Zimmerman was treated for the injuries at the scene.

You are not privy to any of that information is the point yet you fill in the gaps by picking and choosing which hearsay you prefer.
Again, what facts am I ignoring?

FuzzyLumpkins

04-16-2012, 05:48 PM

http://www.wagist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Twin-Lakes-Shooting-Initial-Report.pdf

See the officer's narrative on page 3 of 4.

He described Zimmerman's injuries and states Zimmerman was treated for the injuries at the scene.

Again, what facts am I ignoring?

Good stuff thanks.

So now we know that Zimmerman was probably in a fight.

and its not ignoring its picking and choosing when you know we know little of the evidence. Specifically that the affidavit says that Zimmerman started the confrontation and the issue regarding whose voice was yelling for help. You discount them out of hand. I believe you call them lies.

On there, there is no discussion of what Zimmerman told the police. You happen to know how to get he major crimes report? Thats who it was turned over to and presumably would have handled that.

CosmicCowboy

04-16-2012, 05:49 PM

What claims have i made as to what happened or if Zimmerman is guilty?

All I have said is that its not good news for the Zimmerman camp that the affidavit says he initiated the confrontation and that also that there was conflicting reports within the hearsay and everything else.

For example the Orlando Sentinel claims that police told them that Martin's father said its not his son's voice. In an interview where we can see him sayit, Martin's father says he is sure it was his son's voice.

The OS claims the police report said that Zimmerman said that he was returning to his car when Martin jumped him. The affidavit which we all can read it says that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation.

I really do not know what happened and i am okay with that. I certainly am not prepared to pass judgement or pick a horse.

You care to point to something specifically or you just going to leave the gross characterization?

Time after time you have quoted the prosecutors affidavit as if it was the ten commandments carved in stone.

You apparently don't understand the prosecutors role at this point.

It is her role to bring charges phrased in a way that the judge accepts them and moves forward.

She is not required to substantiate any of her claims at this point.

The fact that she claims it is her ROLE. It's up to the trial to prove/disprove her allegations.

I don't know either whether Zimmy is guilty or innocent but unlike you I put zero weight on the prosecutors affidavit.

Bring on the facts, please.

FuzzyLumpkins

04-16-2012, 05:57 PM

Time after time you have quoted the prosecutors affidavit as if it was the ten commandments carved in stone.

You apparently don't understand the prosecutors role at this point.

It is her role to bring charges phrased in a way that the judge accepts them and moves forward.

She is not required to substantiate any of her claims at this point.

The fact that she claims it is her ROLE. It's up to the trial to prove/disprove her allegations.

I don't know either whether Zimmy is guilty or innocent but unlike you I put zero weight on the prosecutors affidavit.

Bring on the facts, please.

Theres really not much to go on. i am not going to fill in the gaps. thats been my point.

So you are claiming that the affidavit is just made up? That the prosecutor is just making up the assertion that Zimmerman started the confrontation? Just to 'move the case forward. According to you Zimmerman is getting railroaded here then?

I only mention the affidavit because its something tangible to go by. I am still waiting for the part where i am picking and choosing.

I am quite clear. I only want to hear shit straight from the horses mouth. Yoni's police report was excellent. Fox News broadcasts are not.

Yonivore

04-16-2012, 05:59 PM

Good stuff thanks.

So now we know that Zimmerman was probably in a fight.
No. We know Zimmerman was injured in a way consistent with what we are hearing he's claiming. His nose was bleeding (we've heard public reports he claimed Martin struck him in the face) and the back of his head was bleeding and there was grass on his back and his clothes were wet on back (we've heard public reports he claimed Trayvon Martin was on top of him banging his head against the concrete).

and its not ignoring its picking and choosing when you know we know little of the evidence. Specifically that the affidavit says that Zimmerman started the confrontation and the issue regarding whose voice was yelling for help. You discount them out of hand. I believe you call them lies.
Your rely too much on the affidavit.

The officers, who filed the affidavit, provide no factual support for the claim Zimmerman started the confrontation. None.

I don't think I've ever spoken to the issue of who's voice was identified as yelling for help. I know there are conflicting accounts. And, I don't think I've claimed anyone lied with respect that issue.

FuzzyLumpkins

04-16-2012, 06:01 PM

No. We know Zimmerman was injured in a way consistent with what we are hearing he's claiming. His nose was bleeding (we've heard public reports he claimed Martin struck him in the face) and the back of his head was bleeding and there was grass on his back and his clothes were wet on back (we've heard public reports he claimed Trayvon Martin was on top of him banging his head against the concrete).

Your rely too much on the affidavit.

The officers, who filed the affidavit, provide no factual support for the claim Zimmerman started the confrontation. None.

I don't think I've ever spoken to the issue of who's voice was identified as yelling for help. I know there are conflicting accounts. And, I don't think I've claimed anyone lied with respect that issue.

So you think she has no evidence that Zimmerman started it and is just railroading Zimmerman? And spare me the 'rely too much.'

Its more like i am unwilling to try and make a case based on incomplete information and google maps. that i am not just going to assume that the prosecutor is just lying.

Yonivore

04-16-2012, 06:07 PM

So you are claiming that the affidavit is just made up?
On this point I will say they included, as fact, something that did not occur.

In the sworn affidavit, the officers claim the dispatcher told Zimmerman to wait for officers.

Nowhere in the call Zimmerman made to police will you hear the dispatcher tell Zimmerman to wait. So, unless they're going to state there was a separate call in which this was said to Zimmerman, I'm at a loss to explain why they would include information known to be inaccurate.

That the prosecutor is just making up the assertion that Zimmerman started the confrontation?
One word, Nifong. Prosecutors lie. Prosecutors looking for a book or movie deal may just push the envelope. It didn't work out for Nifong but, hey, maybe this prosecutor thinks it's worth a shot.

Just to 'move the case forward.
Or worse. But, fact remains, they provide no probable cause -- in a probable cause affidavit -- to show Zimmerman started the confrontation.

According to you Zimmerman is getting railroaded here then?
I don't know, you explain it.

I only mention the affidavit because its something tangible to go by. I am still waiting for the part where i am picking and choosing.
Being tangible doesn't make it fact.

CosmicCowboy

04-16-2012, 06:08 PM

So you think she has no evidence that Zimmerman started it and is just railroading Zimmerman? And spare me the 'rely too much.'

Its more like i am unwilling to try and make a case based on incomplete information and google maps. that i am not just going to assume that the prosecutor is just lying.

I hope you never have reason to see how they really work.

Being a prosecutor has very little to do with the truth.

Yonivore

04-16-2012, 06:11 PM

So you think she has no evidence that Zimmerman started it and is just railroading Zimmerman? And spare me the 'rely too much.'
I have no idea. I just know the affidavit provides no support for the facts it claims.

Its more like i am unwilling to try and make a case based on incomplete information and google maps. that i am not just going to assume that the prosecutor is just lying.
Again, I don't know what the prosecutor is doing.

And, my opinion is based on a bit more than just what is in the public record and Google maps. But, in that regard, it is still just an opinion.

I don't pretend to know what happened between the end of the police call and the when Martin was shot. I just know that what is known is consistent with what we've heard in the public domain that Zimmerman shot in self-defense.