Trayvon Martin - black kid armed with skittles killed in "self-defense"

[jack sommerset]

I have glock 17 I leave in the vehicle I use most at all time. I don't think I took it out in over a year. I travel one week out of the month all over the Dallas area. God willing I will never have to use it but I am prepared to send so someone straight to hell if needed. God bless.

[CosmicCowboy]

Once the cops come, the odds of "no harm, no foul" go way down. Remember, you said yourself, that law enforcement are trained to kill. So in your scenario, by calling the cops, the probability of someone getting shot are greater than 50%.

:lmao

WTF?

I thought these were allegedly innocent kids?

[Wild Cobra]

I have glock 17 I leave in the vehicle I use most at all time. I don't think I took it out in over a year. I travel one week out of the month all over the Dallas area. God willing I will never have to use it but I am prepared to send so someone straight to hell if needed. God bless.
Take it out and at least do a function test.

[cantthinkofanything]

I have glock 17 I leave in the vehicle I use most at all time. I don't think I took it out in over a year. I travel one week out of the month all over the Dallas area. God willing I will never have to use it but I am prepared to send so someone straight to hell if needed. God bless.

LOL. You're only going to piss them off with a .17. For self defense, you should get a Glock 9 or Glock 40 at the least. If you can handle it, get the Glock 45.

[Creepn]

What kind of shit question is this? If they don't live in the neighborhood and they are just "hanging out" then they deserve to be watched at the very least. I would just keep an eye on them. I wouldn't call the cops because I have a long driveway, a dog, and lots of guns. Some of my elderly neighbors might prefer to call the police and let them check them out. It is, after all, one of the police job descriptions. If nothings wrong then the cops won't do anything. No harm, no foul.

Wow. So you don't see how black people always cry racism? Here are 3 black males just chilling and doing nothing wrong, but that is enough to warrant a 911 call simply because you don't know them? Why would you guys automatically assume the worse as opposed to maybe they are just visiting someone in the neighborhood?

Would you guys feel the same way with these people?

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQMt8Pe8JmBFsTqAeX2auu5ahbTfGz7a XpXbv7l_o6E54fFgvOe

[CosmicCowboy]

LOL. You're only going to piss them off with a .17. For self defense, you should get a Glock 9 or Glock 40 at the least. If you can handle it, get the Glock 45.

OKFG!

That has to be a spurtalk classic post for ignorance.

[Wild Cobra]

LOL. You're only going to piss them off with a .17. For self defense, you should get a Glock 9 or Glock 40 at the least. If you can handle it, get the Glock 45.
Really now?

It'a a 9 mm with a 17 round magazine.

[CosmicCowboy]

Wow. So you don't see how black people always cry racism? Here are 3 black males just chilling and doing nothing wrong, but that is enough to warrant a 911 call simply because you don't know them? Why would you guys automatically assume the worse as opposed to maybe they are just visiting someone in the neighborhood?

Would you guys feel the same way with these people?

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQMt8Pe8JmBFsTqAeX2auu5ahbTfGz7a XpXbv7l_o6E54fFgvOe

I would feel the same way about anyone "chillin" where they don't live.

[cantthinkofanything]

OKFG!

That has to be a spurtalk classic post for ignorance.

More evidence you've never fired a gun. Do you know how small a 17 caliber bullet is? To "send someone to hell", you'd have to shoot them in they eye execution style.

[cantthinkofanything]

Really now?

It'a a 9 mm with a 17 round magazine.

You're trolling me hard now. The grip is only a couple of inches. You can't stack 17 rounds of 9 mm unless the magazine was sticking out down to your waist.

[Creepn]

I would feel the same way about anyone "chillin" where they don't live.

I smell bullshit but ok. How would your elderly neighbors feel about those 3 white guys just chilling? Would they waste taxpayer money and call the cops on them?

[cantthinkofanything]

And if you really want to fuck someone, Beretta makes the 92. Can you imagine what that would do to someone? Or worse, the Sig Sauer 220. Now, that would make a hole!

[CosmicCowboy]

More evidence you've never fired a gun. Do you know how small a 17 caliber bullet is? To "send someone to hell", you'd have to shoot them in they eye execution style.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

A glock 17 isn't .17 caliber...its a model number. You sound like "nolimitnigga" that thought two Glock 40's gave him 80 rounds.

and yeah, I know how small a .17 is because I own one that just blows the fucking heads off prairie dogs at 200 yards. From there out to 600 I use the 22.250.

[cantthinkofanything]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

A glock 17 isn't .17 caliber...its a model number. You sound like "nolimitnigga" that thought two Glock 40's gave him 80 rounds.

and yeah, I know how small a .17 is because I own one that just blows the fucking heads off prairie dogs at 200 yards. From there out to 600 I use the 22.250.

You mean the 40 caliber Glock 40?

[CosmicCowboy]

You're trolling me hard now. The grip is only a couple of inches. You can't stack 17 rounds of 9 mm unless the magazine was sticking out down to your waist.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

http://www.glock.com/english/glock17.htm

[cantthinkofanything]

This one might hold 17. But you'd never be able to keep it in your belt.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_sW65ilskOC8/TS9-zNJ8-0I/AAAAAAAAiwI/Wn1s77MY9RY/s1600/GlockExtendedMagazine.jpg

[CosmicCowboy]

You mean the 40 caliber Glock 40?

This is too much fun

The Glock 40 calibers are actually model 22's and 23's (maybe more)

I was referring to innocent little trayvon's "nolimitnigga" tweets about packing "two glock 40's giving him 80 rounds"

[CosmicCowboy]

This one might hold 17. But you'd never be able to keep it in your belt.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_sW65ilskOC8/TS9-zNJ8-0I/AAAAAAAAiwI/Wn1s77MY9RY/s1600/GlockExtendedMagazine.jpg

It's a double stack dumbass. Like my Para Ordinance P12. It's not a 12 caliber.

[cantthinkofanything]

It's a double stack dumbass. Like my Para Ordinance P12. It's not a 12 caliber.

Para Ordinance guns are coded differently.

[CosmicCowboy]

Para Ordinance guns are coded differently.

Dude, give it up. You are monumentally and chumpishly in over your head here.

[cantthinkofanything]

well, I'm going to study up on guns and get back to you.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Two dumbasses making wrong assumptions about each other that escalated to a physical confrontation that then elevated to a deadly confrontation.

I agree. Now all I am saying is that there should be a law that if you are not a law enforcement officer that you cannot carry a fire arm patrolling neighborhoods or other similar actions. I am sure a law enforcement official would know much better than i what those boudaries should be.

[Blake]

I agree. Now all I am saying is that there should be a law that if you are not a law enforcement officer that you cannot carry a fire arm patrolling neighborhoods or other similar actions. I am sure a law enforcement official would know much better than i what those boudaries should be.

That would seem rather odd to allow private citizens to carry, but not a neighborhood watchman.

[CosmicCowboy]

That would seem rather odd to allow private citizens to carry, but not a neighborhood watchman.

I agree.

[spursncowboys]

That kid is dead because Zimmerman was playing cop and had no idea wtf he was doing. He tried to detain him got his ass beat and shot him. Leave law enforcement to the professionals granted authority by our elected governments and not to any fuckhead that decides they want to play cop.

How do you know he had no idea wtf he was doing(i'm assuming you are talking about handling a gun)?

How do you know he tried to detain him? All we know for a fact is that he was following him. From there it goes to a dead guy and zimmerman's story.

I don't understand your absolute trust in police. I think they do a great job. I just don't think they can be in a million places at once. I grew up in a neighborhood that got their cars broken into on a nightly basis. When you tried to get the cops involved, they would tell you it wasn't an important crime to them and they would patrol but they couldn't be in the neighborhood all night. They knew when the kids were breaking into cars but couldn't stop them.

[spursncowboys]

We're not initially talking about LE. I'm talking about neighborhood watchers. If Zimmerman had gone through the proper training on where to shoot someone without killing them, we'd have Travon's side of the story as well.

Are you saying that someone who wants to watch his neighborhood has to go through training?? Who would certify them? the government? How much would it cost?

So people have to pay to protect their private property but shouldn't have to pay to have an id so they can vote?

[spursncowboys]

And I think that you probably have never fired a pistol.

I agree with cc that if you ever shoot at someone it should be to kill. if you don't kill them and neutralize them as a threat then the better for both of yall.

[Trainwreck2100]

How do you know he had no idea wtf he was doing(i'm assuming you are talking about handling a gun)?

How do you know he tried to detain him? All we know for a fact is that he was following him. From there it goes to a dead guy and zimmerman's story.

I don't understand your absolute trust in police. I think they do a great job. I just don't think they can be in a million places at once. I grew up in a neighborhood that got their cars broken into on a nightly basis. When you tried to get the cops involved, they would tell you it wasn't an important crime to them and they would patrol but they couldn't be in the neighborhood all night. They knew when the kids were breaking into cars but couldn't stop them.

he followed the kid and blasted the kid when the kid kicked his ass. I don't trust cops but i trust pussies with guns (who are not cops already)alot less

[cantthinkofanything]

Are you saying that someone who wants to watch his neighborhood has to go through training?? Who would certify them? the government? How much would it cost?

So people have to pay to protect their private property but shouldn't have to pay to have an id so they can vote?

yeah, I think so. Have the government certify them. i don't know the cost. Maybe $19 or so? Maybe combine it with some other national agency.

[spursncowboys]

he followed the kid and blasted the kid when the kid kicked his ass. I don't trust cops but i trust pussies with guns (who are not cops already)alot less

He followed the kid and called 911. From their his story changes from your assumption.

[cantthinkofanything]

I agree with cc that if you ever shoot at someone it should be to kill. if you don't kill them and neutralize them as a threat then the better for both of yall.

Yeah, it seems silly to try to shoot someone in the knee. Then standing over them while making the decision to shoot them dead. Preposterous. But maybe nanotechnology will help solve some of this.

[spursncowboys]

yeah, I think so. Have the government certify them. i don't know the cost. Maybe $19 or so? Maybe combine it with some other national agency.

Oh well I adamantly disagree with that.

[cantthinkofanything]

Oh well I adamantly disagree with that.

I agree. It seems farfetched and a terribly inefficient choice.

edit: made no sense

[Winehole23]

A grand jury will not look into the Trayvon Martin (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Trayvon+Martin) case, a special prosecutor said Monday, leaving the decision of whether to charge the teen's shooter in her hands alone and eliminating the possibility of a first-degree murder charge.


That prosecutor, Angela Corey, said her decision had no bearing on whether she would file charges against George Zimmerman (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/George+Zimmerman), the neighborhood watch volunteer who has said he shot the unarmed black teen in self-defense. Corey could still decide to charge him with a serious felony such as manslaughter, which can carry a lengthy prison sentence if he is convicted.


A grand jury had been set to meet Tuesday in Sanford, about 20 miles northeast of Orlando.


Corey has long had a reputation for not using grand juries if it wasn't necessary. In Florida (http://www.csmonitor.com/tags/topic/Florida), only first-degree murder cases require the use of grand juries.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2012/0409/No-grand-jury-in-Trayvon-Martin-shooting

[Jacob1983]

So when does this story die? Anyone else tired of hearing about it?
The guy will probably get jumped by Black Panthers or a Malcom X tribute band and be killed. Would liberals support that? They don't support the death penalty so I'm guessing they would make an exception since the victim would be an evil half white KKK member?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

How do you know he had no idea wtf he was doing(i'm assuming you are talking about handling a gun)?

How do you know he tried to detain him? All we know for a fact is that he was following him. From there it goes to a dead guy and zimmerman's story.

I don't understand your absolute trust in police. I think they do a great job. I just don't think they can be in a million places at once. I grew up in a neighborhood that got their cars broken into on a nightly basis. When you tried to get the cops involved, they would tell you it wasn't an important crime to them and they would patrol but they couldn't be in the neighborhood all night. They knew when the kids were breaking into cars but couldn't stop them.

Absolute trust in police? Lie making shit up about what i think of the average cop? All it means is that i have more faith in those that are trained in law enforcement and granted authority by our republic.

Its pretty obvious you guys just contra any position that i have. Now according to you and CC, its okay for any guy to go out and carry guns and play cop. Its fucking stupid.

Protecting yourself and your property is something that is important for every American. Playing law enforcement without training or authority is something completely else. Like i said if you cannot understand that IDK what to tell you. Zimmerman was patrolling the neighborhood and in no way shape or form was he protecting his own property when he decided to tail Tray.

I want people trained and granted authority to do that and not jsut anyone to arbitrarily decide to do that because shit like this happens. If Zimmerman didn't have that gun i doubt he would have followed Tray and would have called the real authority as he was asked to do.

Now the kid is dead. Vigilante laws prevent this kind of things from happening and is exactly why most states have them. Zimmerman should not have the right to play cop unless he is accepted by his local police force.

[Wild Cobra]

You're trolling me hard now. The grip is only a couple of inches. You can't stack 17 rounds of 9 mm unless the magazine was sticking out down to your waist.
You mean this doesn't work:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Misc/Glock17mag.jpg

[cantthinkofanything]

You mean this doesn't work:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/Misc/Glock17mag.jpg

You can draw whatever you want but that doesn't mean it will work. When I was little, I used to draw spaceships but not a single one would have flown.

[jack sommerset]

Absolute trust in police? Lie making shit up about what i think of the average cop? All it means is that i have more faith in those that are trained in law enforcement and granted authority by our republic.

Its pretty obvious you guys just contra any position that i have. Now according to you and CC, its okay for any guy to go out and carry guns and play cop. Its fucking stupid.

Protecting yourself and your property is something that is important for every American. Playing law enforcement without training or authority is something completely else. Like i said if you cannot understand that IDK what to tell you. Zimmerman was patrolling the neighborhood and in no way shape or form was he protecting his own property when he decided to tail Tray.

I want people trained and granted authority to do that and not jsut anyone to arbitrarily decide to do that because shit like this happens. If Zimmerman didn't have that gun i doubt he would have followed Tray and would have called the real authority as he was asked to do.

Now the kid is dead. Vigilante laws prevent this kind of things from happening and is exactly why most states have them. Zimmerman should not have the right to play cop unless he is accepted by his local police force.

Have faith my brother. There are plenty of reasons not to trust the police and plenty of reasons to trust the police. Same goes for gun carrying civilians. If you are honest with yourself you will see both sides. Do some research on both including why we even have police. Do some feel good stories on how a gun saved a victims life. It will open your eyes a little brighter and you will understand and sympathize.

As for young Trevor Martin he has all eyes of our government/media/citizens on the case. Including Obama. Justice will prevail, laws will be updated or re written. We will all learn and be better because of what happened before,after and durning. Let it go. It's being taking care of. God bless

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding."

[CosmicCowboy]

You can draw whatever you want but that doesn't mean it will work. When I was little, I used to draw spaceships but not a single one would have flown.

:lmao

damn you are stubborn.

I already posted the specs on the Glock 17. It's a double stack 9 millimeter that holds 17 rounds. It's the most popular law enforcement pistol in the world.

Just admit you didn't know what the fuck you were talking about and move on.

[cantthinkofanything]

:lmao

damn you are stubborn.

I already posted the specs on the Glock 17. It's a double stack 9 millimeter that holds 17 rounds. It's the most popular law enforcement pistol in the world.

Just admit you didn't know what the fuck you were talking about and move on.

Like I said, I can make up specs on anything but that doesn't make it mechanically sound. I feel like I'm being trolled her but I'll go ahead and humor you. They name pistols after the caliber of bullet. Glock 17, 9, 40, etc. It's exactly why it's one of the most popular revolvers among both law enforcement and the public. It's one of the easiest guns to understand. Including the name. It's the same with hunting rifles. Winchester 70 (70 caliber) Remington 223 (223 caliber). Etc.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Have faith my brother. There are plenty of reasons not to trust the police and plenty of reasons to trust the police. Same goes for gun carrying civilians. If you are honest with yourself you will see both sides. Do some research on both including why we even have police. Do some feel good stories on how a gun saved a victims life. It will open your eyes a little brighter and you will understand and sympathize.

As for young Trevor Martin he has all eyes of our government/media/citizens on the case. Including Obama. Justice will prevail, laws will be updated or re written. We will all learn and be better because of what happened before,after and durning. Let it go. It's being taking care of. God bless

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding."

Have faith? Its about having the proper training and authority to do the job without people getting hurt or the law being broken while doing it. When dealing with people you have to plan for the LCD so while there may be paragons out there, you will also have people like Zimmerman that cannot even follow simple instructions.

Why not give kids guns?

[jack sommerset]

Have faith? Its about having the proper training and authority to do the job without people getting hurt or the law being broken while doing it. When dealing with people you have to plan for the LCD so while there may be paragons out there, you will also have people like Zimmerman that cannot even follow simple instructions.

Why not give kids guns?

Yes my brother, have faith. Look for the positives instead of concentrating on the negatives. Surrender to your anger. Give yourself time to heal. Police are properly trained. That's a positive. Of course they have bad apples as well as civilians who carry guns. The few bad seeds tend to overshadow the majority of the good ones.

It's illegal to give kids guns. I think 18 for rifle, 21 for handgun. Might want to google. God bless.

[Wild Cobra]

You can draw whatever you want but that doesn't mean it will work. When I was little, I used to draw spaceships but not a single one would have flown.
LOL...

That's how a common magazine is laid out. The AR-15 magazines of 20 and 30 rounds are done like that. I only showed how the bullets are laid in. Of course it's a little higher and needs room for the spring in the bottom.

I have seen and used such magazines in various weapons. You think you understand without ever seeing one.

http://www.tacticalworks.com/image.php?id=31&type=D (http://www.tacticalworks.com/Magpul-PMAG-20-Round-Magazine.html)

Click on the pic for the link.

[Wild Cobra]

Maybe I should be more specific. This one is for a Glock 17:

http://www.cactustactical.com/osc/images/glock-magazine.jpg (http://www.cactustactical.com/osc/glock-magazine-round-capacity-p-469.html)

[CavsSuperFan]

I was talking to this guy who knows a lot about guns and stuff…He feels that George Zimmerman should not have been carrying a firearm…

[cantthinkofanything]

LOL...

That's how a common magazine is laid out. The AR-15 magazines of 20 and 30 rounds are done like that. I only showed how the bullets are laid in. Of course it's a little higher and needs room for the spring in the bottom.

I have seen and used such magazines in various weapons. You think you understand without ever seeing one.

http://www.tacticalworks.com/image.php?id=31&type=D (http://www.tacticalworks.com/Magpul-PMAG-20-Round-Magazine.html)

Click on the pic for the link.

Enter Strawman. Yeah, I'm sure it's doable for a 15 caliber. The suction needed to pull the bullets up would be much less than for a 17 or 9 or 40.

[Wild Cobra]

I was talking to this guy who knows a lot about guns and stuff…He feels that George Zimmerman should not have been carrying a firearm…
Based om what? What he hears from the mainscream news?

[CavsSuperFan]

It’s like you could just see something bad was going to happen…Some hot temper guy driving around with his assault pistol looking for trouble…

[Creepn]

So when does this story die? Anyone else tired of hearing about it?
The guy will probably get jumped by Black Panthers or a Malcom X tribute band and be killed. Would liberals support that? They don't support the death penalty so I'm guessing they would make an exception since the victim would be an evil half white KKK member?

Don't think it will go away until the results from the investigations come out and it may not even go away then depending on the results. There are still rallies and protests going on in Florida right now. I think yesterday, they staged a protest in front of the Sanford Police Dept.

The Black Panther thing, they aren't going to do a damn thing like that.

[Wild Cobra]

It’s like you could just see something bad was going to happen…Some hot temper guy driving around with his assault pistol looking for trouble…
Did his voice sound hot tempered on the call to the police?

[Wild Cobra]

Don't think it will go away until the results from the investigations come out and it may not even go away then depending on the results. There are still rallies and protests going on in Florida right now. I think yesterday, they staged a protest in front of the Sanford Police Dept.

The Black Panther thing, they aren't going to do a damn thing like that.

It's like conspiracy theories. There will always be those who blame him, even if he is completely exonerated.

[Creepn]

Did his voice sound hot tempered on the call to the police?

"FUCKING COONS-PUNKS-GOONS!" Whatever he said.

[Creepn]

It's like conspiracy theories. There will always be those who blame him, even if he is completely exonerated.

There is no way he will be "completely" exonerated simply because of the lack of evidence. And yes, I well be one of those guys who will still blame him if he get released. Just like people with Casey Anthony.

[Wild Cobra]

"FUCKING COONS-PUNKS-GOONS!" Whatever he said.
There was an extensive expert analysis on that. I forget the words, but it wasn't anything like that.

[Creepn]

There was an extensive expert analysis on that. I forget the words, but it wasn't anything like that.

So he didn't say ANY of those words? lol That's BS, I heard it.

[Wild Cobra]

There is no way he will be "completely" exonerated simply because of the lack of evidence. And yes, I well be one of those guys who will still blame him if he get released. Just like people with Casey Anthony.
I didn't say because of lack of evidence. Did I?

Please, never assume. especially with me.

I have pointed out there is information not released. We have witnesses that have not gone public. For all we know, the police may have video from the apartments.

[Wild Cobra]

So he didn't say ANY of those words?
I forget what the determined he said. You however inserted at least a couple that were completely false.

[Blake]

Please, never assume. especially with me.

Roflmao

[Blake]

"...The attorneys for George Zimmerman, the Florida community watch volunteer who fatally shot unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin, said Tuesday they have lost touch with their client and are withdrawing from the case...."

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/10/11124992-george-zimmermans-attorneys-withdraw-from-trayvon-martin-case?lite

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I didn't say because of lack of evidence. Did I?

Please, never assume. especially with me.

I have pointed out there is information not released. We have witnesses that have not gone public. For all we know, the police may have video from the apartments.

Oh shut the fuck up. Thats all you ever do is assume what you want something to be and then play sophist trying to prove it. You are the opposite of an open mind.

[TheSullyMonster]

Like I said, I can make up specs on anything but that doesn't make it mechanically sound. I feel like I'm being trolled her but I'll go ahead and humor you. They name pistols after the caliber of bullet. Glock 17, 9, 40, etc. It's exactly why it's one of the most popular revolvers among both law enforcement and the public. It's one of the easiest guns to understand. Including the name. It's the same with hunting rifles. Winchester 70 (70 caliber) Remington 223 (223 caliber). Etc.

Oh my God.:lol

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=001C&mid=535133




So when does this story die?

When the case is closed, ideally.

[Winehole23]

Two attorneys for George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who shot and killed an unarmed black teenager, stepped down as his lawyers on Tuesday after saying they had lost contact with him and that he was no longer in Florida.


Lawyers Craig Sonner and Hal Uhrig said they had not heard from Zimmerman since Sunday and expressed concern about his mental and physical health. They said he had taken several recent actions without their advice, including calling a special prosecutor in the case and a television journalist.


"We have lost contact with him," Sonner told a news conference outside the Seminole County Courthouse in Sanford, Florida, the town where 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot.


"He's gone on his own. I'm not sure what he's doing and who he's talking to," he said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/10/us-usa-florida-shooting-lawyers-idUSBRE8391D820120410

[CosmicCowboy]

Like I said, I can make up specs on anything but that doesn't make it mechanically sound. I feel like I'm being trolled her but I'll go ahead and humor you. They name pistols after the caliber of bullet. Glock 17, 9, 40, etc. It's exactly why it's one of the most popular revolvers among both law enforcement and the public. It's one of the easiest guns to understand. Including the name. It's the same with hunting rifles. Winchester 70 (70 caliber) Remington 223 (223 caliber). Etc.


You are really cracking me up Chump Junior.

Like the senior Chump you don't have a fucking clue about what you are posting about.

:lmao

This thread has evolved in to a classic :lmao thread.

[Agloco]

What do you think precipitated the fight?


Two dumbasses making wrong assumptions about each other that escalated to a physical confrontation that then elevated to a deadly confrontation.

Two or one? Given what transpired on the police call, I'd argue that Martins assumptions were reasonable and that Z's were not.


It was dark, it was raining, Martin was sitting on Zimmerman's chest beating the shit out of him. I really think you're advocacy of "threat neutralization target training" in this situation is naive.


What do you think precipitated the fight?


At the very least he was following him which he was intsructed by real law enforcement officials not to do.

No amount of quantum spin will change the fact that the events leading to Martins death were set in motion by Z. I feel that he should be held accountable for that.

[Yonivore]

"FUCKING COONS-PUNKS-GOONS!" Whatever he said.
I think they've settled on "fucking cold." It was fucking cold and rainy...

[spursncowboys]

Two or one? Given what transpired on the police call, I'd argue that Martins assumptions were reasonable and that Z's were not.







No amount of quantum spin will change the fact that the events leading to Martins death were set in motion by Z. I feel that he should be held accountable for that.

Not really. We don't know what was the reason why the neighborhood wanted to start a neighborhood watch. We don't know how many nights he kept watch and no one was injured. For all we know he was doing his "routine". What was the time frame of when this all occured? Does anyone know?

[Yonivore]

Has anyone explained how Zimmerman caught up with a running Trayvon Martin...while talking to a 911 operator...complaining about it being fucking cold...and whining, in resignation, about how "they" always get away after the operator told him he didn't need to follow the person?

Just curious.

Someone might suspect Trayvon Martin came back looking for a fight.

[Yonivore]

Not really. We don't know what was the reason why the neighborhood wanted to start a neighborhood watch. We don't know how many nights he kept watch and no one was injured. For all we know he was doing his "routine". What was the time frame of when this all occured? Does anyone know?
Actually, according to his father, he wasn't "patrolling" he was either on his way to the store or on his way back when a suspicious person, walking through the neighborhood, in the rain, caught he attention.

[spursncowboys]

Has anyone explained how Zimmerman caught up with a running Trayvon Martin...while talking to a 911 operator...complaining about it being fucking cold...and whining, in resignation, about how "they" always get away after the operator told him he didn't need to follow the person?

Just curious.

Someone might suspect Trayvon Martin came back looking for a fight.

Zimmermans story is that when 911 told him to stop, he did and then, allegedly did not know where he was and was walking up to the next street to see what street he was at. He stated that he lost track of the young adult he killed by this point. And that T. Martin jumped out and asked if he had a problem and then attacked him.

[Yonivore]

Zimmermans story is that when 911 told him to stop, he did and then, allegedly did not know where he was and was walking up to the next street to see what street he was at. He stated that he lost track of the young adult he killed by this point. And that T. Martin jumped out and asked if he had a problem and then attacked him.
I know what he claims -- except he wasn't claiming he was lost, just that he went to the next street to get an address and was on his way back to his truck.

My question is for those who believe Zimmerman, a little pudgy, fucking cold, and talking on the phone caught up with Martin, a 17 year old football athlete, after exclaiming in the phone, "shit! he ran."

[Jacob1983]

Is being a racist a crime? Is having racist thoughts and feelings illegal? I'm just curious because it seems like it's a federal crime if a human being is a racist or has racist thoughts and feelings.

[Gutter92]

Is being a racist a crime? Is having racist thoughts and feelings illegal? I'm just curious because it seems like it's a federal crime if a human being is a racist or has racist thoughts and feelings.
No, but knowing whether or not an individual is racist can help determine motives to actions which are illegal. If George is indeed racist, you don't think he'd be slightly more motivated (or rather, find it easier) to kill someone who was supposedly attacking him.

[Winehole23]

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2012/0409/No-grand-jury-in-Trayvon-Martin-shooting
Alan Dershowitz, the legal scholar and criminal attorney, also appeared on the show, and said he was "disturbed" by the conduct of Zimmerman's former attorneys. Dershowitz said they may have damaged his defense by expounding on his state of mind, and they may possibly have violated attorney-client privilege. "All they had to do was quietly say that 'we're no longer representing [Zimmerman] and our role in the case is over.'"http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/10/trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmermans-attorneys-quit_n_1416031.html

[Jacob1983]

Murder is illegal and a crime. Feelings and thoughts are not.

[Gutter92]

Murder is illegal and a crime. Feelings and thoughts are not.

Uh....if its just feelings and thoughts, only Zimmerman would know about them. When you start voicing these thoughts/feelings, or acting on these thoughts/feelings, they are no longer just thoughts/feelings...nobody could prove what Zimmerman was thinking or feeling at the time of the murder

[Jacob1983]

Some people have self control. Others don't.

[Gutter92]

Some people have self control. Others don't.

Truth

[Wild Cobra]

Oh shut the fuck up. Thats all you ever do is assume what you want something to be and then play sophist trying to prove it. You are the opposite of an open mind.
Why are you also such an antagonistic ass?

You must have a real pathetic life to have to put others down to boost your ego. I don't know if I should hate you, or feel pity for you.

[Wild Cobra]

Has anyone explained how Zimmerman caught up with a running Trayvon Martin...while talking to a 911 operator...complaining about it being fucking cold...and whining, in resignation, about how "they" always get away after the operator told him he didn't need to follow the person?

Just curious.

Someone might suspect Trayvon Martin came back looking for a fight.
I'd like to know how the tub of lard was suppose to catch up with the lean football player.

[Wild Cobra]

Some people have self control. Others don't.
Lawyers who don't have self control can quickly get disbarred.

[Jacob1983]

I just don't like all of the race baiting and people trying to start fake race war shit with this case. It's pathetic that people trivialize someone's death in order to start shit. I also just laugh at the holier than thou types. Those are the people that act like "I've never said anything racist or offensive in my entire life" and they are the ones that are lining up to throw stones at this guy. And it's not just this case. Any time some dumbass says the n-word or something that gay people don't like, people just love to chime in and throw fuckin' stones at the person.

[Sportcamper]

Dude- You are the Zen Master of Trolling...:lmao

cantthinkofanything...

They name pistols after the caliber of bullet. Glock 17, 9, 40, etc. It's exactly why it's one of the most popular revolvers among both law enforcement and the public. It's one of the easiest guns to understand. Including the name. It's the same with hunting rifles. Winchester 70 (70 caliber) Remington 223 (223 caliber).

[CosmicCowboy]

Dude- You are the Zen Master of Trolling...:lmao

cantthinkofanything...

They name pistols after the caliber of bullet. Glock 17, 9, 40, etc. It's exactly why it's one of the most popular revolvers among both law enforcement and the public. It's one of the easiest guns to understand. Including the name. It's the same with hunting rifles. Winchester 70 (70 caliber) Remington 223 (223 caliber).

Sadly, I think he was really serious.

[JoeChalupa]

Sean Hannity has the inside to an interview with Zimmerman.

[Sportcamper]

Let me explain it this way…I am from California & would never bring on bad Karma by owning automatic assault pistols like some people do…However I do have a S&W model 27 & model 19…Some may argue that they both fire .38/.357 caliber bullets… But upon careful examination you will find that the heavy frame model 27 actually fires a .27 caliber round while the lighter frame model 19 actually fires a .19 caliber round…Same is true with my Remington model 700 rifels…I am amphibious and therefore shoot both left & right handed….However the left hand model & right hand models still fire the same .700 caliber round…

[Blake]

Sean Hannity has the inside to an interview with Zimmerman.

Looks to me that Zimmerman is moving to cash in on his 15 minutes.

Wouldn't do him much good behind bars. He must really believe he can beat this.

[CosmicCowboy]

Let me explain it this way…I am from California & would never bring on bad Karma by owning automatic assault pistols like some people do…However I do have a S&W model 27 & model 19…Some may argue that they both fire .38/.357 caliber bullets… But upon careful examination you will find that the heavy frame model 27 actually fires a .27 caliber round while the lighter frame model 19 actually fires a .19 caliber round…Same is true with my Remington model 700 rifels…I am amphibious and therefore shoot both left & right handed….However the left hand model & right hand models still fire the same .700 caliber round…

Kudos to you sir.

It takes a real man to pull the trigger on a .700 caliber.

[JoeChalupa]

Looks to me that Zimmerman is moving to cash in on his 15 minutes.

Wouldn't do him much good behind bars. He must really believe he can beat this.

I think if he is charged it will be for manslaughter. Hung jury is very possible. He won't be charged for murder.

[Sportcamper]

Kudos to you sir.

It takes a real man to pull the trigger on a .700 caliber.

Actually I never knew there was a trigger problem until recently…They just made left handed models in my favorite calibers .30 06 & 7mm…And I dont know what a .700 caliber would do but I bet it would hurt...:lol

[Sportcamper]

I think Zimmerman is in survival mode…He will show up in a suit & tie, clean shaven & will be in full woe is me mode while making a pitch for his Pay Pal website where viewers can make contributions for his legal expenses…Don't know why Hannity wants to touch this…

[CosmicCowboy]

I think if he is charged it will be for manslaughter. Hung jury is very possible. He won't be charged for murder.

Based on Florida law it doesn't appear to meet the threshold for manslaughter either.

From another thread:





In Florida, manslaughter, is defined as: The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder .

bold/underline mine.

Florida law considers fearing for your life or serious injury lawful justification for shooting someone.

BTW, Florida makes no distinction between involuntary manslaughter and manslaughter

[cantthinkofanything]

Kudos to you sir.

It takes a real man to pull the trigger on a .700 caliber.

So you were trolling me the whole time. Well done sir. Now that you're finally having some real talk, what do you really think about my idea of threat neutralization target training and limiting certain calibers of guns to people that have passed different levels of the testing?

[CosmicCowboy]

So you were trolling me the whole time. Well done sir. Now that you're finally having some real talk, what do you really think about my idea of threat neutralization target training and limiting certain calibers of guns to people that have passed different levels of the testing?


:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang :bang

[clambake]

not sure what all the talk about small caliber is about.

a 22 can scramble your eggs.

[JoeChalupa]

Based on Florida law it doesn't appear to meet the threshold for manslaughter either.

From another thread:

WTF!?!? So there is no law to charge him under in Florida!?!?

[Sportcamper]

what do you really think about my idea of threat neutralization target training

I am all for it…I grew up watching Bonanza & the Rifleman…Joe Cartwright & Lucas Mc Cain had no problem shooting the gun out of the hands of bad guys while not seriously injuring them…Don’t tell me this cannot be taught today.

[CosmicCowboy]

WTF!?!? So there is no law to charge him under in Florida!?!?

Joe, check my edit of the previous post. I cited the Florida manslaughter statute.

[Sportcamper]

:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang :bang
:lol:rollin:lol

[clambake]

I am all for it…I grew up watching Bonanza & the Rifleman…Joe Cartwright & Lucas Mc Cain had no problem shooting the gun out of the hands of bad guys while not seriously injuring them…Don’t tell me this cannot be taught today.

if rex o'herlihan can do it, so can we.

[cantthinkofanything]

:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang:bang :bang

Perfect. We're on the same page then. Will you help me start the class? We can take the class together so we can get an idea of how it will go. And maybe possibly become Certified Threat Neutralization Targeting Teachers. Are you in?

[Sportcamper]

Perfect. Will you help me start the class? We can take the class together so we can get an idea of how it will go. And maybe possibly become Certified Threat Neutralization Targeting Teachers. Are you in?
You Sir are good...:lmao

[cantthinkofanything]

I am all for it…I grew up watching Bonanza & the Rifleman…Joe Cartwright & Lucas Mc Cain had no problem shooting the gun out of the hands of bad guys while not seriously injuring them…Don’t tell me this cannot be taught today.

LOL. Well, in the days when those guys were around, they didn't have the technology to make guns accurate enough to do that. But now, it's pretty simple. For beginners, you could start off by putting a scope on their pistols for better accuracy. The now make scopes that magnify up to 50x. It would make the gun bulkier but the increase in accuracy should make up for it. So with my proposal, it might have gone like this:

Martin attacks Zimmerman.
Zimmerman, trained in threat neutralization targeting (level 1), unholsters his 17 caliber revolver (with 50x scope).
Zimmerman shoots Martin in the knee. (While improbable with the scope, even if Zimmerman misses, the 17 caliber bullet isn't going to kill Martin).
Assuming success, Martin backs off Zimmerman.
Zimmerman reassesses the situation.
If Martin re-attacks, Zimmerman fires the kill shot.
If Martin doesn't attack, Zimmerman calls the cops.

[cantthinkofanything]

You Sir are good...:lmao

OK, I guess I'm done here. You guys are too short-sighted. :lol

[Sportcamper]

That would be awesome…My .30 06 has a Leupold 7X which allows me to shoot accurately out to 300 yards…Imagine what Zimmerman could have done with a 50x scope on his .17 caliber assault hand gun…He probably could have just shot off the tip of the guys finger….

[cantthinkofanything]

That would be awesome…My .30 06 has a Leupold 7X which allows me to shoot accurately out to 300 yards…Imagine what Zimmerman could have done with a 50x scope on his .17 caliber assault hand gun…He probably could have just shot off the tip of the guys finger….

:lol:lol:lol:lol Holy shit. Just the thought of someone somehow rigging up a rifle scope with a 50mm objective to their semi-auto and pulling it out, holding it up to their eye, and somehow trying to focus on someones finger at a foot away...:lol:lol:lol:lol

[CosmicCowboy]

:lol:lol:lol:lol Holy shit. Just the thought of someone somehow rigging up a rifle scope with a 50mm objective to their semi-auto and pulling it out, holding it up to their eye, and somehow trying to focus on someones finger at a foot away...:lol:lol:lol:lol

:bang

[cantthinkofanything]

:bang

You don't think that's a funny scenario? Come on man. A scope longer than the pistol, mounted on some tall ass see through brackets? Then having to hold it a couple of inches from his eye, trying in vain trying to focus on something a couple of feet away. All while getting beat on.

[cantthinkofanything]

:bang

Wait...you're not disputing the 50mm objective are you?

[cantthinkofanything]

:bang

Or maybe you're scoffing that the extra $ paid for a 50mm over a 40mm or 42mm aren't worth it.

I really don't know what you're trying to say.

[Sportcamper]

The possibilities are endless…One just needs to think outside the box….

http://www.travel-golf.org/images/redneck_assault_rifle.jpg

[JoeChalupa]

Joe, check my edit of the previous post. I cited the Florida manslaughter statute.

Yes, thanks. I can see how the law is written. So since he can claim self-defense he can say it was "justifiable" manslaughter. Seem like one can pick a fight and then when they are getting their ass kicked can kill and then get off.

[Yonivore]

WTF!?!? So there is no law to charge him under in Florida!?!?
Funny how that works eh, Joe?

Commit an act that doesn't meet the elements of a crime and, presto - zingo, you can't be charged!

Even if the weight of an ill-informed court of public opinion is calling for your arrest.

Even if the weight of a maliciously-biased national media are misrepresenting the facts to make you look like a racist.

Even if the New Black Panther Party has called for your capture, "Dead or Alive."

And, yes, even if Al Sharpton, Spike Lee, Roseanne Bar, Barack Obama, and Jessie Jackson insinuate themselves in the fray, against you.

[Yonivore]

Yes, thanks. I can see how the law is written. So since he can claim self-defense he can say it was "justifiable" manslaughter. Seem like one can pick a fight and then when they are getting their ass kicked can kill and then get off.
I read Florida's use of force statute that way, as well, Joe.

But, considering there is zero evidence Zimmerman "picked" a fight and zero evidence Trayvon Martin suffered any injuries -- consistent with being assaulted first -- I'd say that's probably not at issue here.

[Aztecfan03]

I am amphibious and therefore shoot both left & right handed….However the left hand model & right hand models still fire the same .700 caliber round…

:lmao . I think you mean ambidextrous. Or can you shoot on both land and in water?

[CosmicCowboy]

Yes, thanks. I can see how the law is written. So since he can claim self-defense he can say it was "justifiable" manslaughter. Seem like one can pick a fight and then when they are getting their ass kicked can kill and then get off.

I'm pretty sure you can't initiate the violence (throw the first punch) and then claim self defense.

I'm also pretty confident that this is the special prosecutors dilemma.

It seems from the evidence that has been made public that Martin may have initiated the violence which then justifies Zimmerman's self defense claim.

if she can't find any evidence that Zimmerman initiated the violence then she is right not to charge him.

[Sportcamper]

IMO…Florida law, Florida police investigation, Florida prosecutor is the least of Zimmerman's concern…The Feds will do a real investigation and IMO charge Zimmerman with "something" when they are good & ready…

[Yonivore]

I'm pretty sure you can't initiate the violence (throw the first punch) and then claim self defense.

I'm also pretty confident that this is the special prosecutors dilemma.

It seems from the evidence that has been made public that Martin may have initiated the violence which then justifies Zimmerman's self defense claim.

if she can't find any evidence that Zimmerman initiated the violence then she is right not to charge him.
I'm pretty sure you're wrong...


776.041 Use of force by aggressor. —The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
Zimmerman could be claiming either 2(a) or 2(b).

I think the idea behind the statute is to provide you with a defense should the person your "picking on" react with disproportionate force.

[CosmicCowboy]

IMO…Florida law, Florida police investigation, Florida prosecutor is the least of Zimmerman's concern…The Feds will do a real investigation and IMO charge Zimmerman with "something" when they are good & ready…

Yeah, If Florida no bills him Holders justice department will probably charge him with violating Martins civil rights. It's just too juicy of a political issue not to with Obama running for re-election..

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm pretty sure you're wrong...


Zimmerman could be claiming either 2(a) or 2(b).

I think the idea behind the statute is to provide you with a defense should the person your "picking on" react with disproportionate force.

He can and should claim both.

[Sportcamper]

:lmao . I think you mean ambidextrous. Or can you shoot on both land and in water?

I actually have shot on both land & water with either hand but I was following cantthinkofanything lead & posting jibberish…S&W does not make a .27 or .19 caliber and I am pretty sure that Glock does not make a .19 caliber assault pistol…

[JoeChalupa]

I read Florida's use of force statute that way, as well, Joe.

But, considering there is zero evidence Zimmerman "picked" a fight and zero evidence Trayvon Martin suffered any injuries -- consistent with being assaulted first -- I'd say that's probably not at issue here.

Well maybe Zimmerman did assault first but just didn't land any blows that caused injuries. A person can assault first and not land any blows. And how would one tell by injuries alone who initiated the assault?

[JoeChalupa]

Funny how that works eh, Joe?

Commit an act that doesn't meet the elements of a crime and, presto - zingo, you can't be charged!

Even if the weight of an ill-informed court of public opinion is calling for your arrest.

Even if the weight of a maliciously-biased national media are misrepresenting the facts to make you look like a racist.

Even if the New Black Panther Party has called for your capture, "Dead or Alive."

And, yes, even if Al Sharpton, Spike Lee, Roseanne Bar, Barack Obama, and Jessie Jackson insinuate themselves in the fray, against you.


Yeah, I agree with you.

[Yonivore]

IMO…Florida law, Florida police investigation, Florida prosecutor is the least of Zimmerman's concern…The Feds will do a real investigation and IMO charge Zimmerman with "something" when they are good & ready…
Well, if you're inferring the feds will drum up some charges after Florida authorities have exonerated him; that would be a pretty interesting twist considering there now appears to be no federal statute applicable to this incident.

As more and more media deception comes to light, the federal hate crimes law appears to be less and less a factor.

And, unless, Obama can make some strained connection to the Interstate Commerce Clause, a la Obamacare, I'm not sure under what aegis the feds could charge him.

All forms of homicide -- except those occurring in conjunction with some other federal element (terrorism, bank robbery, drug running, etc...) -- are state crimes under the purview of state law.

[Winehole23]

Yeah, If Florida no bills him Holders justice department will probably charge him with violating Martins civil rights. It's just too juicy of a political issue not to with Obama running for re-election..are you predicting the DOJ will lodge politically convenient civil rights charges before the election this year? before local justice runs its course?

I have one question for you, CC: how much you wanna bet?

[JoeChalupa]

I'm pretty sure you can't initiate the violence (throw the first punch) and then claim self defense.

I'm also pretty confident that this is the special prosecutors dilemma.

It seems from the evidence that has been made public that Martin may have initiated the violence which then justifies Zimmerman's self defense claim.

if she can't find any evidence that Zimmerman initiated the violence then she is right not to charge him.

I haven't seen any proof that Martin initiated the assault. If someone is following me and I have no clue who or why that could be a reason for me to confront them but that doesn't mean I initiated an assault.

[cantthinkofanything]

I actually have shot on both land & water with either hand but I was following cantthinkofanything lead & posting jibberish…S&W does not make a .27 or .19 caliber and I am pretty sure that Glock does not make a .19 caliber assault pistol…

I'll give it a rest after this but your pic above made me think of this.

http://dontevenreply.com/view.php?post=84

[CosmicCowboy]

are you predicting the DOJ will lodge politically convenient civil rights charges before the election this year? before local justice runs its course?

I have one question for you, CC: how much you wanna bet?

Please read what I wrote before you pounce.

I said they would do it after Florida no billed him (justice runs it's course and they realize they don't have enough evidence to charge him)

[Yonivore]

Yeah, If Florida no bills him Holders justice department will probably charge him with violating Martins civil rights. It's just too juicy of a political issue not to with Obama running for re-election..
I don't know. When you've lost Al Sharpton on the "Get Whitey" parade, you may not have much of a case.

Anyone else notice Al Sharpton's pretty much moved on to other things? Two weeks ago, he was going to "Occupy" Sanford until Zimmerman was arrested -- even if it meant being there through Easter.

He celebrated Easter in Harlem.

This case is fast losing it "racial" factor.

[Yonivore]

I haven't seen any proof that Martin initiated the assault. If someone is following me and I have no clue who or why that could be a reason for me to confront them but that doesn't mean I initiated an assault.
Proof Zimmerman initiated the assault is equally absent.

[CosmicCowboy]

I haven't seen any proof that Martin initiated the assault. If someone is following me and I have no clue who or why that could be a reason for me to confront them but that doesn't mean I initiated an assault.

:lmao

OK

There have been no facts made public to determine beyond a shadow of a doubt who threw the initial punch, but Zimmerman's injuries and the testimony of the eye witness who saw Martin beating the shit out of Zimmerman while Zimmerman begged him to stop seems pretty consistent with Zimmerman's story that Martin attacked him first.

Would you at least accept THAT?

[djohn2oo8]

:lmao

OK

There have been no facts made public to determine beyond a shadow of a doubt who threw the initial punch, but Zimmerman's injuries and the testimony of the eye witness who saw Martin beating the shit out of Zimmerman while Zimmerman begged him to stop seems pretty consistent with Zimmerman's story that Martin attacked him first.

Would you at least accept THAT?
What kind of authority did Zimmerman have to confront or follow Martin? Hmm?

[CosmicCowboy]

What kind of authority did Zimmerman have to confront or follow Martin? Hmm?

What is the relevance? Zimmerman following him doesn't give Martin the right to attack and beat the shit out of Zimmerman but if he does attack him it does give Zimmerman a legitimate defense for shooting him.

[George Gervin's Afro]

What is the relevance? Zimmerman following him doesn't give Martin the right to attack and beat the shit out of Zimmerman but if he does attack him it does give Zimmerman a legitimate defense for shooting him.

if only Zimmeramn would have listened to the po po..

[CosmicCowboy]

if only Zimmeramn would have listened to the po po..

Of course. Lots of what if's to go around.

Two dumbasses and a tragic misunderstanding.

[djohn2oo8]

What is the relevance? Zimmerman following him doesn't give Martin the right to attack and beat the shit out of Zimmerman but if he does attack him it does give Zimmerman a legitimate defense for shooting him.
Zimmerman wasn't a cop. He doesn't have the right to stop someone if they broke into a neighbor's home. The only thing he would be obligated to do is call the cops, and they would say "do not go outside". So someone following you, you feeling threatened, cannot respond? :lmao

[JoeChalupa]

:lmao

OK

There have been no facts made public to determine beyond a shadow of a doubt who threw the initial punch, but Zimmerman's injuries and the testimony of the eye witness who saw Martin beating the shit out of Zimmerman while Zimmerman begged him to stop seems pretty consistent with Zimmerman's story that Martin attacked him first.

Would you at least accept THAT?

The fact that he was getting his ass kicked, yes, but then again eye witness testimony is so unreliable and has been proven to be so many times. And there was also been some information that Martin asked Zimmerman why he was following him, allegedly that is since, well he is dead now and can't tell his side of the story.
I see Zimmerman not getting charged or if he he won't serve any time. Just a bad case of judgement on both parts but I still put more of the blame on Zimmerman for if he had simply waited for the police all this could have been avoided.

[djohn2oo8]

Of course. Lots of what if's to go around.

Two dumbasses and a tragic misunderstanding.
The only dumbass is Zimmerman for trying to play hero.

[hitmanyr2k]

Of course. Lots of what if's to go around.

Two dumbasses and a tragic misunderstanding.

Nah, just one dumbass who thought he was Neighborhood Rambo. If he just minds his own business instead of playing cop none of this happens. The kid basically got shot and killed for walking down the street.

[Trill Clinton]

Can't wait to hear what new information Angela Corey has regarding the case. With zimmerbitch's attorney's stepping down and him not responding to their calls this can only mean good news for the Martin family:downspin:

[djohn2oo8]

Zimmerman disappearing looks even more suspicious.

[DarrinS]

if only Zimmeramn would have listened to the po po..

Do you think dispatchers are the po po?

[Yonivore]

:lmao

OK

There have been no facts made public to determine beyond a shadow of a doubt who threw the initial punch, but Zimmerman's injuries and the testimony of the eye witness who saw Martin beating the shit out of Zimmerman while Zimmerman begged him to stop seems pretty consistent with Zimmerman's story that Martin attacked him first.

Would you at least accept THAT?
CosmicCowboy, no one witnessed the initiation of aggression.

But, whatever the case, it is apparent to eyewitnesses that he was getting the snot beat out of him prior to Martin being shot.

I think that's why Florida authorities did not arrest; physical injuries to George Zimmerman and the absence of physical injuries to Trayvon Martin (other than the fatal gunshot wound) supported either any version of events that would all George Zimmerman to use deadly force under Florida law.

My personal belief -- based on the length and content of the 911 call between Zimmeman and the dispatcher, the public statements of the girlfriend claiming to have been on the phone with Martin when the altercation began, and the layout of the gated community (along with a pretty good description of where, in the community, the shooting occurred) -- is that Zimmerman, after hanging up on the 911 call, was in the area where the shooting would eventually take place when Trayvon Martin confronted him. I think Martin startled and Zimmerman either turned to retreat or perhaps, depending on how close and menacing Martin was when he confronted him, shoved Martin so he could retreat.

I honestly believe any scenario that makes George Zimmerman the aggressor also has him making Martin aware he is armed -- and, it has Martin's girlfriend claiming Zimmerman 1) spoke first and 2) said something a bit more provocative that, "what are you doing here?" Neither of which appears to be the case.

But, that's just my opinion.

I do think the Special Prosecutor's 72-hour lead and refusal to declare a press conference location more than 3 hours beforehand, because of security concerns, does imply the information will be unpopular to those most likely to react to the information violently.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Do you think dispatchers are the po po?

the dispatchers speak on behalf of the po pop..are you playing stupid again?

[CosmicCowboy]

The only dumbass is Zimmerman for trying to play hero.

Martin attacking an armed guy with his fists was a pretty dumbass move as well. and if you want to make the argument that he didn't know he was armed then he was a dumbass for not assuming he was armed, so yeah, two dumbasses met with tragic consequences.

[djohn2oo8]

Martin attacking an armed guy with his fists was a pretty dumbass move as well. and if you want to make the argument that he didn't know he was armed then he was a dumbass for not assuming he was armed, so yeah, two dumbasses met with tragic consequences.
:lmao You're looking pretty stupid right now. Zimmerman brought the gun, initiated and escalated the situation. You're blaming Martin for Zimmerman being a pussy.

[Yonivore]

if only Zimmeramn would have listened to the po po..
There's no indication he didn't listen to the dispatcher.

In fact, when I listen to the 911 call, he responded "Ok," after which he whined about how "they always get away." He then proceeded to try and get a good address to which the police could respond.

It doesn't sound like he's running -- even after he exclaims, "Shit, he's running!" Even there, it only sounds like he's walking fast.

That leads me back to my earlier question. How in the hell did he catch up with Trayvon Martin while being a bit on the pudgy side, talking on the phone, complaining about the fucking cold, and looking for an address for the police?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What is the relevance? Zimmerman following him doesn't give Martin the right to attack and beat the shit out of Zimmerman but if he does attack him it does give Zimmerman a legitimate defense for shooting him.

It does if he felt threatened. Dude had a gun.

[Yonivore]

the dispatchers speak on behalf of the po pop..are you playing stupid again?
You're right but, their words don't carry the force of a police command.

Besides, all the dispatcher said is, "You don't need to do that." Not quite an explicit order.

[Sportcamper]

Well, if you're inferring the feds will drum up some charges after Florida authorities have exonerated him; that would be a pretty interesting twist considering there now appears to be no federal statute applicable to this incident.

Yonivore-I am not implying that the Feds, Obama or Holder would do anything dishonest…I am saying that the moment the Department of Justice was handed this case Zimmerman is now in big trouble…This case has gone from a local police department which may have some qualified investigators to the Federal Government which has rocket scientists at their disposal…The Feds are the best of the best…These people are brilliant…They will dissect this every which way they can…

I would hate to have them examine my life…:lol

[Winehole23]

Besides, all the dispatcher said is, "You don't need to do that." Not quite an explicit order.clear enough advice, though

[Trill Clinton]

The eyewitness accounts I've heard/seen state the fight took place on grass, not concrete. The eyewitnesses also state the sanford police department did not seem interested in their accounts that it was zimmerman on top and not martin.

[Yonivore]

What kind of authority did Zimmerman have to confront or follow Martin? Hmm?
There being no proof he confronted him aside, as a citizen moving around in the common areas of a gated community -- one where the private property owners had been experiencing a rash of property crimes and of which Zimmerman was a property owner -- he had every right to try and keep a suspicious person in sight until the police arrived.

He had as much right to be where he was as did Trayvon Martin.

[Trill Clinton]

There being no proof he confronted him aside, as a citizen moving around in the common areas of a gated community -- one where the private property owners had been experiencing a rash of property crimes and of which Zimmerman was a property owner -- he had every right to try and keep a suspicious person in sight until the police arrived.

He had as much right to be where he was as did Trayvon Martin.

he didn't own any property. he was a 30 something year old weirdo living in his parents basement.

[cantthinkofanything]

nm.

[Yonivore]

Zimmerman disappearing looks even more suspicious.
Well, if the New Black Panther Party had put a price on my head and a series of "Remember Trayvon" assaults starting taking place across the country, I'd probably disappear, too.

[DarrinS]

The eyewitness accounts I've heard/seen state the fight took place on grass, not concrete. The eyewitnesses also state the sanford police department did not seem interested in their accounts that it was zimmerman on top and not martin.


Eyewitnesses indicate they were fighting on a giant goose down comforter. There's no way zimmerman had head injuries.

[Yonivore]

The eyewitness accounts I've heard/seen state the fight took place on grass, not concrete. The eyewitnesses also state the sanford police department did not seem interested in their accounts that it was zimmerman on top and not martin.
We haven't seen the forensic evidence collected at the scene and, to be sure, that it was raining will make it hard to collect but, as significant as Zimmerman's head wounds were, I'm pretty sure some trace evidence of blood or tissue could still be located on the spot of concrete where he alleges Trayvon Martin was beating his head against the sidewalk.

Are you at all familiar with where the crime occurred?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Eyewitnesses indicate they were fighting on a giant goose down comforter. There's no way zimmerman had head injuries.

And you wonder why I call you a deceptive piece of shit.

[Yonivore]

Yonivore-I am not implying that the Feds, Obama or Holder would do anything dishonest…I am saying that the moment the Department of Justice was handed this case Zimmerman is now in big trouble…This case has gone from a local police department which may have some qualified investigators to the Federal Government which has rocket scientists at their disposal…The Feds are the best of the best…These people are brilliant…They will dissect this every which way they can…

I would hate to have them examine my life…:lol
Oh, I think this DOJ is dishonest but, even it can't make a state crime a federal one.

[Winehole23]

And you wonder why I call you a deceptive piece of shit.and I wonder why you do little else besides call other posters morons and shit on their heads...

[Yonivore]

he didn't own any property. he was a 30 something year old weirdo living in his parents basement.
Okay, was he a resident or not?

[Trill Clinton]

We haven't seen the forensic evidence collected at the scene and, to be sure, that it was raining will make it hard to collect but, as significant as Zimmerman's head wounds were, I'm pretty sure some trace evidence of blood or tissue could still be located on the spot of concrete where he alleges Trayvon Martin was beating his head against the sidewalk.

Are you at all familiar with where the crime occurred?


Yes I am. It happened on grass. I don't even think there was that much blood if any at all by looking at the camera footage from the police department. didn't look like someone who was moments away from getting beat to death.


She saw the fight take place and said they were 4 feet away from the concerete.

74kyUhRsLBc&feature=related

[Trill Clinton]

Okay, was he a resident or not?

as much a resident as Trayvon was.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Oh, I think this DOJ is dishonest but, even it can't make a state crime a federal one.

lol a bush war whore claiming another administration is dishonest...

[Yonivore]

Yes I am. It happened on grass. I don't even think there was that much blood if any at all by looking at the camera footage from the police department. didn't look like someone who was moments away from getting beat to death.


She saw the fight take place and said they were 4 feet away from the concerete.

74kyUhRsLBc&feature=related
1) Eyewitnesses are frequently wrong.

2) You still don't have access to the forensic evidence.

3) George Zimmerman was treated at the scene and his head and face were cleaned by medical attendants. He had a pretty serious laceration across the crown of his head...grass won't do that. But, let's go with your argument for a minute; you can also beat someone's head against the ground until they're unconscious in a grassy yard.

4) Finally, even if the eyewitness is correct about where it took place, there could still be an object against which Zimmerman could have been having he head beaten against. About two or three feet, off the sidewalk, in one of the photographs I saw, there is a metal pole with doggie "poop bag" holder mounted on it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

and I wonder why you do little else besides call other posters morons and shit on their heads...

Thats not all I do, that is only part of the diatribe. For someone that is supposed to be subtle, you certainly lack nuance.

I do like how you do not take me to task over calling him deceptive or a sophist. Thats okay but hyperbole and metaphors are off limits?

[Winehole23]

say whatever you like

[CosmicCowboy]

Oh, I think this DOJ is dishonest but, even it can't make a state crime a federal one.

I could see them trying to make a case that Zimmerman as a neighborhood watch person was acting under the "color of law" and he responded to the altercation with excessive force violating Martins civil rights.

[Yonivore]

lol a bush war whore claiming another administration is dishonest...
Fast and Furious.

Yes, this is a lying Department of Justice.

[Winehole23]

@Fuzzy: the diatribe is your primary mode of expression on this board. odd that you would slight it....

[DarrinS]

And you wonder why I call you a deceptive piece of shit.


lol. Your sarcasm detector sucks.

[Yonivore]

as much a resident as Trayvon was.
No argument there. I haven't claimed Trayvon was doing anything illegal.

That doesn't mean Zimmerman had no reason to find him suspicious.

[Trill Clinton]

1) Eyewitnesses are frequently wrong.

2) You still don't have access to the forensic evidence.

3) George Zimmerman was treated at the scene and his head and face were cleaned by medical attendants. He had a pretty serious laceration across the crown of his head...grass won't do that. But, let's go with your argument for a minute; you can also beat someone's head against the ground until they're unconscious in a grassy yard.

4) Finally, even if the eyewitness is correct about where it took place, there could still be an object against which Zimmerman could have been having he head beaten against. About two or three feet, off the sidewalk, in one of the photographs I saw, there is a metal pole with doggie "poop bag" holder mounted on it.


where did you see the laceration?

[JoeChalupa]

Just heard on FoxNews that the Washington Post is reporting that Zimmerman WILL be charged.

[JoeChalupa]

FoxNews also reported that there are about 6 witnesses who claim it was Martin yelling for help. And that there are no witnesses to the actual assault and only 1 witness who claims Martin was pounding Zimmerman. Sounds like the 911 call will make the final determination? The minute and a half or so after Zimmerman was told he didn't need to follow Martin.

[Trill Clinton]

Just heard on FoxNews that the Washington Post is reporting that Zimmerman WILL be charged.

:danceclub

[Yonivore]

where did you see the laceration?
In the police department security video. The one not altered by ABC News. Looks to be four to five inches long.

There's also the initial police report that describes the injuries and the treatment rendered at the scene.

[CosmicCowboy]

George Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin shooting, official says


By Sari Horwitz, Wednesday, April 11, 12:56 PM

Florida special prosecutor Angela Corey plans to announce as early as Wednesday afternoon that she is charging neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in the shooting of Trayvon Martin, according to a law enforcement official close to the investigation.

It was not immediately clear what charge Zimmerman will face.


Martin, 17 and unarmed, was shot and killed Feb. 26 by Zimmerman, who said he was acting in self-defense. Police in Sanford, Fla., where the shooting took place, did not charge Zimmerman, citing the state’s “stand your ground” law.

Corey told reporters Tuesday night that she would hold a news conference about the case within 72 hours. A news release from her office said the event will be held in Sanford or Jacksonville, Fla.

Benjamin Crump, who is representing the Martin family, said this week that Corey’s office had asked where Trayvon’s parents would be each day this week. They arrived Wednesday in Washington for a civil rights conference organized by the Rev. Al Sharpton, where they are scheduled to speak.

The announcement of a charge against Zimmerman would come a day after Zimmerman’s attorneys withdrew from the case, citing their inability to contact Zimmerman.

Lawyers Craig Sonner and Hal Uhrig on Tuesday expressed concern about Zimmerman’s emotional and physical well-being, saying he has taken actions without consulting them. They also said they do not know where Zimmerman is.

“You can stop looking in Florida,” Uhrig told reporters. “Look much further away than that.”

Corey said Monday that she would not bring the case before a grand jury, which was expected to convene this week. She said her decision to forgo the grand jury should not be viewed as a factor in determining whether charges will be filed.

Corey has indicated in recent weeks that she might not need a grand jury to bring charges against Zimmerman.

The lawyers said they stand by their assertions that Zimmerman acted in self-defense when he killed the 17-year-old, who was unarmed, but they acknowledged that they formed their impressions without meeting Zimmerman.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

from where I sit you're pretty much all diatribe, all the time

Oh noes. Thats not true even slightly. I go after three people that I know of and talk to everyone else just fine. Even you. You have accused me of coming after you and I fail to see where that is the case.

Darrin started up with the tired cyclical climate nonsense. Previously he had told me that he liked what BEST had done. Turns out that he was just saying that because he was claiming a chart came from BEST that obviously had not.

I tried to talk the science of how to analyze periodic systems as I have experience doing that. It also just so happens that BEST's analysis specifically addresses that.

He ignored that and tried to switch the conversation to an asinine discussion about relative temporal populations. Thats what he does and I have gotten to the point where I am not going to go around in circles. Deceptive, dissembling, sophist piece of shit is short concise and to the point.

That is hardly all just diatribe. in this discussion I have talked about the importance of vigilante laws.

I think you just really do not like me telling people to go fuck themselves and go off in umbrage. If thats what you want to think is all i do then put me on ignore. Its obvious that I upset you even though I make it a point to be civil with you.

You go the passive aggressive route I prefer the more direct approach. oh well.

[Fabbs]

I would get to the bottom of this.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kxebifIoEL1qanc0a.jpg

[FuzzyLumpkins]

lol. Your sarcasm detector sucks.

Sarcasm is the solace of small minds.

[Yonivore]

Just heard on FoxNews that the Washington Post is reporting that Zimmerman WILL be charged.
I guess now we wait to see with what he's charged.

[Trill Clinton]

In the police department security video. The one not altered by ABC News. Looks to be four to five inches long.

There's also the initial police report that describes the injuries and the treatment rendered at the scene.

I'm not arguing a scuffle took place, just not at the extent of what zimmerbitch is describing. I would like to see that video cuz the one I saw on Bill Maher, don't know if it was altered version or not, clearly showed no marks or bruises. They even showed an angle of him walking in the police department with much better lighting and still nothing,

[FuzzyLumpkins]

@Fuzzy: the diatribe is your primary mode of expression on this board. odd that you would slight it....

I don't slight it. I am just saying that is not all that I do. Rather that is what I mostly do to WC, Darrin, GSH, and boutons. Everyone else i do not do that and I only treat them like that because I believe they intentionally try to mislead people. I don't like that at all and I think its a big problem in this country in general.

If anything I slight the passive aggressive approach.

[clambake]

i heard he has fled florida. i just hope all neighborhood watch people are on the look out.

[clambake]

i'm gonna call my good friend tommy lee jones.

[JudynTX]

I hope they can find his ass.

[clambake]

this thread picked a fine time to take a nap.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think I made wine mad again.

[Trill Clinton]

this thread picked a fine time to take a nap.

the unthinkable happened.

[clambake]

the unthinkable happened.

whats the big deal. its just one black dude.

probably get killed eventually anyway.

[clambake]

this is bad news for anyone thats been hassled at the pump.

[Trill Clinton]

whats the big deal. its just one black dude.

probably get killed eventually anyway.
:sleep

[Trill Clinton]

Angela Corey's news conference will be at 6pm est.

[clambake]

:sleep

Z was just trying to purify our race....

...with a mexican/jewish twist

[Yonivore]

the unthinkable happened.
Just seems unnecessary to continue debating the topic until we know what's going to be said at the news conference, no?

[boutons_deux]

...

[Sportcamper]

Just seems unnecessary to continue debating the topic until we know what's going to be said at the news conference, no?
The reality is Zimmerman is in big trouble…The Feds are just getting started with their investigation & now this…

[Yonivore]

The reality is Zimmerman is in big trouble…The Feds are just getting started with their investigation & now this…
Hell, he's been in big trouble since the moment he pulled the trigger. That's not new.

I think you place too much esteem in the Federal government.

Say, I wonder if our esteemed Attorney General will see any civil rights violation in the the New Black Panther Party putting a bounty on Zimmerman's head.

[Blake]

Z was just trying to purify our race....

...with a mexican/jewish twist

If Martin had been armed with sopapillas instead of skittles, it might have saved his life, imo

[Sportcamper]

I think you place too much esteem in the Federal government.

Instead of criminologists examining evidence the Feds will have investigators with PhD’s in Astro Physics and criminology experts...Instead of audio experts examining the 911 tapes the Feds with have rocket scientists who are also audio geeks & familiar with any equipment ever invented…

My former boss was a Navy technician & our chief engineer was a former well respected fighter pilot…Because of their long relationship with the military I have worked on freebie government projects several times…I once sat with a guy who builds fighter jets on an audio project & this engineer learned what I did in less than 10 minutes…The feds are the crème de le crème…Men & women with the highest integrity…If there is evidence to be found they will find it…

[Yonivore]

Instead of criminologists examining evidence the Feds will have investigators with PhD’s in Astro Physics and criminology experts...Instead of audio experts examining the 911 tapes the Feds with have rocket scientists who are also audio geeks & familiar with any equipment ever invented…

My former boss was a Navy technician & our chief engineer was a former well respected fighter pilot…Because of their long relationship with the military I have worked on freebie government projects several times…I once sat with a guy who builds fighter jets on an audio project & this engineer learned what I did in less than 10 minutes…The feds are the crème de le crème…Men & women with the highest integrity…If there is evidence to be found they will find it…
Okay. But, I would be interested to know where you think astrophysics will come in to play here.

[clambake]

If Martin had been armed with sopapillas instead of skittles, it might have saved his life, imo

as hard as it is to accept, we can't go back in time.

[Winehole23]

I think I made wine mad again.not at all. your style rubs me the wrong way, is all.

[cantthinkofanything]

not at all. your style rubs me the wrong way, is all.

showing restraint...

[Winehole23]

I think you just really do not like me telling people to go fuck themselves and go off in umbrage. If thats what you want to think is all i do then put me on ignore. Its obvious that I upset you even though I make it a point to be civil with you.you being nice to me doesn't exonerate you from acting like a jerk to others

You go the passive aggressive route I prefer the more direct approach. oh well.objecting to your general abusiveness and hostility to other posters is passive how?

[Wild Cobra]

Sadly, I think he was really serious.
I have that same idea, based on other posts he makes.

[Wild Cobra]

Well maybe Zimmerman did assault first but just didn't land any blows that caused injuries. A person can assault first and not land any blows. And how would one tell by injuries alone who initiated the assault?
Please show us the Florida law that supports that contention.

[Wild Cobra]

I haven't seen any proof that Martin initiated the assault. If someone is following me and I have no clue who or why that could be a reason for me to confront them but that doesn't mean I initiated an assault.
In a court of law, innocent till proven guilty.

The prosecution would have to convince the jury that Zimmerman initiated an assault.

[Wild Cobra]

What kind of authority did Zimmerman have to confront or follow Martin? Hmm?
Are you saying we, as free people, are only able to do what the law authorizes us to do?

Silly me. I thought we were free to do what the law didn't forbid.

And...

They are charging Zimmerman. Details will be announced later. I'll bet it's political move. Do away with the grand jury to find some flimsy reason to appease the hanging mob.

[CosmicCowboy]

Zimmerman needs to get Casey Anthony's attorney.

[Wild Cobra]

Zimmerman disappearing looks even more suspicious.
Really?

The man has a bounty on his head. What would you do?

[Wild Cobra]

The eyewitness accounts I've heard/seen state the fight took place on grass, not concrete. The eyewitnesses also state the sanford police department did not seem interested in their accounts that it was zimmerman on top and not martin.
Does that exclude the possibility it started on the concrete and rolled onto the grass?

[Wild Cobra]

Charges will be announced in the next hour.

[cantthinkofanything]

Does that exclude the possibility it started on the concrete and rolled onto the grass?

could explain how some people saw Zimmerman on top

[CosmicCowboy]

Does that exclude the possibility it started on the concrete and rolled onto the grass?

You are better off just ignoring Trill Clinton. He's just a stupid troll.

[CosmicCowboy]

could explain how some people saw Zimmerman on top

Almost as bad as trill clinton.

[Wild Cobra]

could explain how some people saw Zimmerman on top
Sure.

He was on top after he shot Martin, who they saw on top first.

[Blake]

Really?

The man has a bounty on his head. What would you do?

I guess we know what you would do.

lol

[cantthinkofanything]

Almost as bad as trill clinton.

what?

[Yonivore]

Zimmerman needs to get Casey Anthony's attorney.
Gee, let's see...

The New Black Panther Party Chief Of Staff Threatens a Reckoning for "Crackers, Pigs, and Pink People;"

The New Black Panther Party Puts "Bounty" on Zimmerman;

Eric Holder Praises Al Sharpton For His Trayvon Advocacy; and, lest we forget, Al Sharpton is responsible for more deaths than George Zimmerman.

Nope, I can't imagine why he wouldn't stay in Florida.

George Zimmerman deserves due process but, I'm beginning to question whether or not he'll even live to see a trial. I'm also wondering how many innocent people will be killed and injured over the course of this fiasco because of those who have been fomenting violence.

[Wild Cobra]

Well, I will be at work when the charges are announced. I wonder how many pages I'll come home to.

[Spawn]

Are you saying we, as free people, are only able to do what the law authorizes us to do?

Silly me. I thought we were free to do what the law didn't forbid.

And...

They are charging Zimmerman. Details will be announced later. I'll bet it's political move. Do away with the grand jury to find some flimsy reason to appease the hanging mob.

:lol Now don't jump to conclusions now. We must wait on all the facts.

[Yonivore]

Well, I will be at work when the charges are announced. I wonder how many pages I'll come home to.
Anything less than capital murder with a promised execution will likely result violence.

Zimmerman's supporters will claim -- as is already starting in here -- that, whatever the charges, it's a political move on the part of the Special Prosecutor to try and calm the waters of racial discontent.

I'm less interested in the charges, although I think it'll be some form of negligent homicide than I am interested in hearing if any new information about the incident will be revealed.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

you being nice to me doesn't exonerate you from acting like a jerk to others

objecting to your general abusiveness and hostility to other posters is passive how?

Who made you arbiter? Oh please. you honor, forgive me..... :rolleyes

When he stops dissembling and being deceptive as a matter of course, I will stop treating him like shit.

And its not what you do; its how you do it. That's the whole point. You do not do it so much now that i have called you on it but if you will recall your questioning my 'charm' and calling me a women and the like. That last bit i found to be delicious irony.

Then of course is:


not at all. your style rubs me the wrong way, is all.

I have told you before that I am sorry that I whatever it is that i do to you but I am going to say what I feel. I tried compromising before and that didn't work. Sorry.

[JoeChalupa]

Zimmerman charged with 2nd Degree Murder. He is in custody. Turned himself in. Al Sharpton now speaking.

[TheSkeptic]

Zimmerman charged with 2nd Degree Murder. He is in custody. Turned himself in.

Great.


Al Sharpton now speaking.

:bang I can't stand that guy. Couldn't they have brought in someone people take seriously?

[Agloco]

Okay. But, I would be interested to know where you think astrophysics will come in to play here.

It's always relevant. It's the stuff we're made of after all. :hat

[Agloco]

Zimmerman charged with 2nd Degree Murder. He is in custody. Turned himself in. Al Sharpton now speaking.

Good on all counts, except the last one. Sharpton will turn this into a god dammned circus in short order.

[JoeChalupa]

Good on all counts, except the last one. Sharpton will turn this into a god dammned circus in short order.

He actually did okay but he did say he didn't trust the Governor or the special prosecutor but now he thanks for doing their job. So if they wouldn't have charged Zimmerman he would have accused them of NOT doing their job!?

[Yonivore]

Well, there will be no verdict before November so, the politicians can all relax.

[spursncowboys]

2nd degree is going to be unable to prove. They should have gone with manslaughter and gotten a guaranteed conviction.

[spursncowboys]

So here we go. The law as is worked. Now we non-Floridians can stop demanding that they change their laws.

[ElNono]

In a court of law, innocent till proven guilty.

Right


The prosecution would have to convince the jury that Zimmerman initiated an assault.

Wrong

[ElNono]

So here we go. The law as is worked. Now we non-Floridians can stop demanding that they change their laws.

Actually, Zimmerman might end up being a victim of not understanding what was covered or not under the law.

[Blake]

2nd degree is going to be unable to prove. They should have gone with manslaughter and gotten a guaranteed conviction.

I think they felt pressured into going 2nd degree.

[TheSkeptic]

Zimmerman needs to get Casey Anthony's attorney.


I think they felt pressured into going 2nd degree.

It's not like manslaughter won't be an option to the jury though right?

In the Casey Anthony trial they had a list of charges all the way from murder 1 to manslaughter to choose from. Unless I'm completely out to lunch, can't the jury still convict for manslaughter?

[Yonivore]

Wrong
Well, they're going to have to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, Zimmerman had criminal intent that resulted in Martin's death.

[Casey Anthony]

Zimmerman needs to get Casey Anthony's attorney.

There is one problem with that. I am innocent.

[ElNono]

Well, they're going to have to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, Zimmerman had criminal intent that resulted in Martin's death.

What they're going to have to prove without a reasonable doubt is that Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. That's all the statute covers.

Who "initiated the assault" or such language isn't part of the statute...

[CosmicCowboy]

Zimmerman turned himself in...

Can he now claim the $10,000 new black panther reward?

Seems only fair.

[Yonivore]

What they're going to have to prove without a reasonable doubt is that Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. That's all the statute covers.

Who "initiated the assault" or such language isn't part of the statute...
I disagree.

He could have not been acting in self-defense and, through negligence or recklessness, shot Martin. That's what's covered by manslaughter. To get to murder, you have to prove criminal intent.

[clambake]

I disagree.

He could have not been acting in self-defense and, through negligence or recklessness, shot Martin. That's what's covered by manslaughter. To get to murder, you have to prove criminal intent.

i think stalking is a crime.

[O.J. Simpson]

Zimmerman turned himself in...

Can he now claim the $10,000 new black panther reward?

Seems only fair.

Did you cry when he turned himself in, faggot?

[ElNono]

I disagree.

He could have not been acting in self-defense and, through negligence or recklessness, shot Martin. That's what's covered by manslaughter. To get to murder, you have to prove criminal intent.

But you're not disagreeing with me :lol

The charge is murder in the 2nd degree, not manslaughter (which doesn't mean the jury can't eventually convict him for manslaughter, but that's a different story).

In order to prove there was criminal intent, the prosector will have to prove he was not "standing his ground" and acting in self-defense. Who initiated the assault has nothing to do with it. Never did. It's not part of any statute, AFAIK.

[spursncowboys]

1782.04 Murder.--
(1)(a) The unlawful killing of a human being:
1. When perpetrated from a premeditated design to effect the death of the person killed or any human being;


(2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

[spursncowboys]

this sounds more like the crime:

782.07 Manslaughter; aggravated manslaughter of an elderly person or disabled adult; aggravated manslaughter of a child; aggravated manslaughter of an officer, a firefighter, an emergency medical technician, or a paramedic.--
(1) The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder, according to the provisions of this chapter, is manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(2) A person who causes the death of any elderly person or disabled adult by culpable negligence under s. 825.102(3) commits aggravated manslaughter of an elderly person or disabled adult, a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(3) A person who causes the death of any person under the age of 18 by culpable negligence under s. 827.03(3) commits aggravated manslaughter of a child, a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(4) A person who causes the death, through culpable negligence, of an officer as defined in s. 943.10(14), a firefighter as defined in s. 112.191, an emergency medical technician as defined in s. 401.23, or a paramedic as defined in s. 401.23, while the officer, firefighter, emergency medical technician, or paramedic is performing duties that are within the course of his or her employment, commits aggravated manslaughter of an officer, a firefighter, an emergency medical technician, or a paramedic, a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
History.--RS 2384; GS 3209; RGS 5039; CGL 7141; s. 715, ch. 71-136; s. 180, ch. 73-333; s. 15, ch. 74-383; s. 6, ch. 75-298; s. 12, ch. 96-322; s. 2, ch. 2002-74.

[spursncowboys]

http://law.justia.com/codes/florida/2005/TitleXLVI/ch0782.html

[ElNono]

The primary distinction between Premeditated First Degree Murder and Second Degree Murder with a Depraved Mind is that First Degree Murder requires a specific and premeditated intent to kill.

link (http://www.richardhornsby.com/crimes/homicide/second-degree-murder.html#Definition)