Trayvon Martin - black kid armed with skittles killed in "self-defense"

[Wild Cobra]

Martin was the one facing imminent threat when Zimmerman had a gun.
I must really be an ignorant dumb-ass, because it seems, to me that a person who has a concealed carry permit is seldom thought of as an imminent threat. I always thought is was one who illegally carried a weapon.

How about looking up the definition of "imminent" for me. I must be too stupid to find it. Please do and quote it for us.

[cantthinkofanything]

Punching somebody in the nose if somebody else assaulted you first is not assault. We need to move on from this "who started the first physical attack" phase because we just don't know.

No one even knows if his head was even "pounded" on the pavement and Team Zimmerman already lied in this case.

None of that has anything to do with the point that you decidedly were not making earlier.

[GSH]

Punching somebody in the nose if somebody else assaulted you first is not assault. We need to move on from this "who started the first physical attack" phase because we just don't know.

No one even knows if his head was even "pounded" on the pavement and Team Zimmerman already lied in this case.


And if Zimmerman assaulted Trayvon first, I'll totally agree with you. Find ANY evidence that happened. Until then, you're just making shit up to try and justify a lynch mob.

[ChumpDumper]

LOL... but they did say that there were no signs of any head injury, even though that was a lie. And they did overlay their logo and other text over Zimmerman's head, right at the time that the mark was visible. (Strangely, now that they've been outed, they have removed the overlay on that part of the video.)It was good that they removed the overlay. That was annoying.

[ChumpDumper]

And if Zimmerman assaulted Trayvon first, I'll totally agree with you. Find ANY evidence that happened. Until then, you're just making shit up to try and justify a lynch mob.What is the evidence Martin attacked first?

[Creepn]

And if Zimmerman assaulted Trayvon first, I'll totally agree with you. Find ANY evidence that happened. Until then, you're just making shit up to try and justify a lynch mob.

lol making shit up? I'm going by statements they made, the video released, and the Florida law to come up with my basis.

[Wild Cobra]

What is the evidence Williams attacked first?
Whit is this third person, Williams?

Why haven't we heard of him before?

[Fabbs]

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Why does ABC need to speculate like you do? It's not like they blurred it out.


LOL... but they did say that there were no signs of any head injury, even though that was a lie. And they did overlay their logo and other text over Zimmerman's head, right at the time that the mark was visible. (Strangely, now that they've been outed, they have removed the overlay on that part of the video.) But, hey, why let facts get in your way? You never did before.


Now jump, puppet. Think of some other excuse.
:lol RumpHumper gettin owned again.
It's too easy.

[Creepn]

I must really be an ignorant dumb-ass, because it seems, to me that a person who has a concealed carry permit is seldom thought of as an imminent threat. I always thought is was one who illegally carried a weapon.

How about looking up the definition of "imminent" for me. I must be too stupid to find it. Please do and quote it for us.

lol as if Martin was supposed to know that a man following him around had a permit for the gun.

[ChumpDumper]

Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Why does ABC need to speculate like you do? It's not like they blurred it out.


:lol RumpHumper gettin owned again.
It's too easy.Not really, considering the alleged severity of his near death experience.

I doubt anyone expected him to look that good.

[CosmicCowboy]

Punching somebody in the nose if somebody else assaulted you first is not assault. We need to move on from this "who started the first physical attack" phase because we just don't know.

No one even knows if his head was even "pounded" on the pavement and Team Zimmerman already lied in this case.

You can't even be consistent, moron.



No, it's a fact that he started the WHOLE thing. Since the beginning.

And who started the physical attack first IS THE WHOLE CASE. If they can't prove Zimmerman started it then they have NO case.

Zimmerman could have cussed Martin up one side and down the other and called him every despicable name in the book but if Martin threw the first punch and was on top of Zimmerman pounding his head into the concrete (which the physical injuries suggest is true) Zimmerman will be no billed.

[Sec24Row7]

let's see:
- nobody knows who threw the first punch
- nobody knows the extent of Z's injuries
- nobody knows what evidence the victim's body has to account for the incident

we know nothing. ppl arguing on either side are mainly talking shit

-No one but Zimmerman, but the only witness that actually saw the fight before the shot confirms Zimmerman's story up to that point
-The police, DA and medical team do. That Zimmerman has not been charged is telling on this point.
-Investigators by now have all the evidence that they are going to have on this as well.

[Wild Cobra]

lol as if Martin was supposed to know that a man following him around had a permit for the gun.
Wouldn't it be a stupid assumption to think that someone is weapons clean, especially if they are following you?

[CosmicCowboy]

Wouldn't it be a stupid assumption to think that someone is weapons clean, especially if they are following you?

I now assume EVERYONE has a gun.

I haven't flipped off anyone driving in years.

[Creepn]

You can't even be consistent, moron.




And who started the physical attack first IS THE WHOLE CASE. If they can't prove Zimmerman started it then they have NO case.

Zimmerman could have cussed Martin up one side and down the other and called him every despicable name in the book but if Martin threw the first punch and was on top of Zimmerman pounding his head into the concrete (which the physical injuries suggest is true) Zimmerman will be no billed.

How in the hell are you rich?? You keep bringing up "first attack" and I keep telling you that it's not a fact either way for these guys. None of us have substantial evidence so this whole thread was pretty much speculation. My initial response to this was that I think Zimmerman's whole case of Martin assaulting and acting in self defense because he was beating the shit out of him is bullshit. His injuries does not look like the self-defense "great bodily harm" stance that his lawyer is taking. That is my speculation. Understand?

[Sec24Row7]

I now assume EVERYONE has a gun.

I haven't flipped off anyone driving in years.

Thats because you have a beer in the hand that isn't hold the steering wheel... :D

[CosmicCowboy]

How in the hell are you rich?? You keep bringing up "first attack" and I keep telling you that it's not a fact either way for these guys. None of us have substantial evidence so this whole thread was pretty much speculation. My initial response to this was that I think Zimmerman's whole case of Martin assaulting and acting in self defense because he was beating the shit out of him is bullshit. His injuries does not look like the self-defense "great bodily harm" stance that his lawyer is taking. That is my speculation. Understand?

You finally get it moron. Unless they can prove Zimmerman physically attacked Martin first he will be found not guilty under Florida law.

There is an eye witness that saw Martin pounding Zimmerman's head into the concrete. Deadly force can be justified.

And Florida doesn't give a fuck what you think or speculate.

[CosmicCowboy]

Thats because you have a beer in the hand that isn't hold the steering wheel... :D

:lmao

[Creepn]

You finally get it moron. Unless they can prove Zimmerman physically attacked Martin first he will be found not guilty under Florida law.

And Florida doesn't give a fuck what you think or speculate.

I keep saying that since the beginning you idiot! YOU finally get it. Don't get it twisted. I've always felt Zimmerman may get the walk because of the lack of evidence. A lot of things don't give a fuck what we say on a messageboard. It's a messageboard, this is what we do. I never lost sight of that.

[Creepn]

There is an eye witness that saw Martin pounding Zimmerman's head into the concrete. Deadly force can be justified.


You talking about "John"? I don't think he said all that. He did state that Martin was on top of him. Don't recall a "pounding head against pavement" statement.

[CosmicCowboy]

I keep saying that since the beginning you idiot! YOU finally get it. Don't get it twisted. A lot of things don't give a fuck what we say on a messageboard. It's a messageboard, this is what we do. I never lost sight of that.

No, three pages ago you were saying Zimmerman couldn't legally shoot Martin because he wasn't hurt enough. Did you already forget that you were totally destroyed on that position?


It's irrelevant? It's very relevant because their law states that if you feel you are on the verge of death or suffered "GREAT bodily harm" (actual text), that you can use deadly force.

Looking at that video, I just don't see that "GREAT bodily harm". Plus he didn't even need to go to the hospital.

[Creepn]

No, three pages ago you were saying Zimmerman couldn't legally shoot Martin because he wasn't hurt enough. Did you already forget that you were totally destroyed on that position?

I still stand by that. The law says "Imminent Death" and/or "Great bodily harm". According to the statements, examination and the video, don't see deadly self defense needed in this case. Take that to the lawmakers.

[Wild Cobra]

I now assume EVERYONE has a gun.

I haven't flipped off anyone driving in years.

Exactly. Never be over confident.

[cantthinkofanything]

I still stand by that. The law says "Imminent Death" and/or "Great bodily harm". According to the statements, examination and the video, don't see self defense needed in this case. Take that to the lawmakers.

Getting one's head smashed into the ground can easily be construed as "great bodily harm". I bet that sometimes people even die from injuries that don't even bleeded.

[CosmicCowboy]

I still stand by that. The law says "Imminent Death" and/or "Great bodily harm". According to the statements, examination and the video, don't see deadly self defense needed in this case. Take that to the lawmakers.

I posted the law for you, dumbass. It doesn't say that.

[Wild Cobra]

Getting one's head smashed into the ground can easily be construed as "great bodily harm". I bet that sometimes people even die from injuries that don't even bleeded.
No shit.

It's a good thing for Zimmerman that he is one hard headed nut.

[Creepn]

I posted the law for you, dumbass. It doesn't say that.

Then you must've posted the wrong law then.

[CosmicCowboy]

It says PREVENT great bodily harm, not that he has to SUSTAIN great bodily harm.

When Martin was pounding his head on the concrete there was a clear and indisputable possibility of great bodily harm.

[Wild Cobra]

It says PREVENT great bodily harm, not that he has to SUSTAIN great bodily harm.

When Martin was pounding his head on the concrete there was a clear and indisputable possibility of great bodily harm.
LOL...

I wonder how many time you need to repeat that before Creep gets that in his thick skull?

[CosmicCowboy]

Then you must've posted the wrong law then.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

fucking idiot


Fla. Stat. § 776.012. Use of force in defense of person

A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony

[Creepn]

It says PREVENT great bodily harm, not that he has to SUSTAIN great bodily harm.

When Martin was pounding his head on the concrete there was a clear and indisputable possibility of great bodily harm.

I don't see the imminent death Martin was about to give him.

[CosmicCowboy]

I don't see the imminent death Martin was about to give him.

He was pounding Zimmermans head on the concrete dumbass. Zimmerman could clearly suffer great physical harm if he didn't stop. Zimmerman stopped him.

[cantthinkofanything]

... My point is that I think a lot of people jumped on board the Martin train without knowing or caring what the facts were/are. And now that they've chosen a side (in some cases, very publicly), they will be unwilling to acknowledge their decision could have been misguided...
.


Obviously. People who strongly hold any belief will be reluctant to give it up when it's challenged. What you stated is true not only for both sides, but it's true in general.


I still stand by that. The law says "Imminent Death" and/or "Great bodily harm". According to the statements, examination and the video, don't see deadly self defense needed in this case. Take that to the lawmakers.

[Creepn]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

fucking idiot

Again, I don't see the imminent death or great bodily harm. Martin on the other hand, yes. Zimmerman had a gun.

[Creepn]

He was pounding Zimmermans head on the concrete dumbass.

You don't know that.

[cantthinkofanything]

Again, I don't see the imminent death or great bodily harm. Martin on the other hand, yes. Zimmerman had a gun.

Just to be clear, you're saying that one cannot suffer great bodily harm 1) by getting head pounded into ground or 2) unless there is a big dent in your head that's gushing blood.

Got it.

[Creepn]

I really don't know what's so difficult to understand. Even if Martin was pounding his head against the pavement, its still gun>pavement.

[Halberto]

Thats a stupid speculation. Understand?

[hater]

He was pounding Zimmermans head on the concrete dumbass. Zimmerman could clearly suffer great physical harm if he didn't stop. Zimmerman stopped him.

allegedly


and I have my reservations on the story. Again, you have a broken nose, getting your head banged against the pavement, and you have the ability to put your hand in your pocket, grab the gun, put your finger in the trigger, aim and shoot at the attacker.

mmm yeah, ok

:downspin:

[Creepn]

Thats a stupid speculation. Understand?

gun>pavement

[cantthinkofanything]

You don't know that.

no one knows that. You're the one looking at a video and saying that he couldn't have been in danger of great bodily harm.

What if you were standing under a tall building and you looked up and saw a piano about to fall on your head and you moved out of the way. Were you not in imminent danger of death and great bodily harm?

[Creepn]

Everybody is claiming Zimmerman to have self defense rights while totally dismissing Martin's.

[CosmicCowboy]

I really don't know what's so difficult to understand. Even if Martin was pounding his head against the pavement, its still gun>pavement.

The statute is crystal clear. If Martin was pounding Zimmerman's head into the concrete then Zimmerman could legally shoot him. What part of that don't you understand?

[Fpoonsie]

How in the hell are you rich??

:lmao

The irony of a supposed black poster confounded by the thought of someone lacking intelligence yet still acquiring wealth.

[Creepn]

no one knows that. You're the one looking at a video and saying that he couldn't have been in danger of great bodily harm.

What if you were standing under a tall building and you looked up and saw a piano about to fall on your head and you move out of the way. Were you not in imminent danger of death and great bodily harm?

Again, GUN>PAVEMENT. Which one is more worthy of self defense?

[cantthinkofanything]

Everybody is claiming Zimmerman to have self defense rights while totally dismissing Martin's.

Where did anyone dismiss Martin's rights to defend himself?

[hater]

no one knows that. You're the one looking at a video and saying that he couldn't have been in danger of great bodily harm.

What if you were standing under a tall building and you looked up and saw a piano about to fall on your head and you moved out of the way. Were you not in imminent danger of death and great bodily harm?

you pull your gun out and shoot at the piano?

[Wild Cobra]

I don't see the imminent death Martin was about to give him.
Idiot...

A witness has Martin beating Zimmerman. You might think it more reasonable for martin to beat Zimmerman to death, but isn't it possible Zimmerman thought he might be under imminent threat of harm or death?

[CosmicCowboy]

Everybody is claiming Zimmerman to have self defense rights while totally dismissing Martin's.

Martin wasn't the one with the broken nose. Zimmerman wasn't sitting on Martins chest pounding his head into the concrete. Martin wasn't the one screaming like a little girl.

[Creepn]

The statute is crystal clear. If Martin was pounding Zimmerman's head into the concrete then Zimmerman could legally shoot him. What part of that don't you understand?

If Martin saw a gun about to be used on him, Martin has a right to pound his head on the pavement. What part of that don't you understand?

[cantthinkofanything]

Again, GUN>PAVEMENT. Which one is more worthy of self defense?

If it's going to kill you, then both of them dumbass. If Zimmerman would have pulled his gun and then Martin threw him to the ground and bashed him to death, then Martin would have good chance at getting his murder conviction overturned in a few years.

[Wild Cobra]

Everybody is claiming Zimmerman to have self defense rights while totally dismissing Martin's.
What imminent threat did he have to defend himself against?

[Creepn]

Martin wasn't the one with the broken nose. Zimmerman wasn't sitting on Martins chest pounding his head into the concrete. Martin wasn't the one screaming like a little girl.

Does he have a broken nose? You are just gobbling up everything he says huh?

[Creepn]

What imminent threat did he have to defend himself against?

uh...A GUN!

[DisAsTerBot]

Again, GUN>PAVEMENT. Which one is more worthy of self defense?

that's completely irrelevant. Maybe if Z pulled a gun first. BUT WE DONT KNOW THAT.

[CosmicCowboy]

If Martin saw a gun about to be used on him, Martin has a right to pound his head on the pavement. What part of that don't you understand?

rock/paper/scissors

bullet > fist

[Wild Cobra]

If Martin saw a gun about to be used on him, Martin has a right to pound his head on the pavement. What part of that don't you understand?
If...

Are you suggesting it wasn't a "if" and Zimmerman already had a gun pulled on Martin?

You are now making things up that there is no evidence to support. Unless...

Were you an eye witness to this? Really... the police need all the witnesses they can get. I suggest you go to Florida and make yourself available to testify.

[Wild Cobra]

uh...A GUN!
And you know, beyond any doubt, that Zimmerman threatened him with a gun first?

[Winehole23]

relevant law cited:

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/florida%E2%80%99s-self-defense-laws

[DisAsTerBot]

so you're saying TM saw a man with a gun and decided to "stand his ground" and defend himself with his fists vs a man with a gun. .....OK

any other random scenarios you want to make up to justify your stance on this case?

[CosmicCowboy]

Does he have a broken nose? You are just gobbling up everything he says huh?

The police said he had a broken nose and that his injuries were totally consistent with the story he told them.. Are you claiming they are in on the conspiracy?

[Wild Cobra]

so you're saying TM saw a man with a gun and decided to "stand his ground" and defend himself with his fists vs a man with a gun. .....OK

any other random scenarios you want to make up to justify your stance on this case?
LOL...

Creep should write cartoons...

[cantthinkofanything]

relevant law cited:

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/florida%E2%80%99s-self-defense-laws

if it's relevant, then you've got the wrong thread

[Wild Cobra]

The police said he had a broken nose and that his injuries were totally consistent with the story he told them.. Are you claiming they are in on the conspiracy?
I figured it all out now...

Creep is a Mouse troll!

[cantthinkofanything]

I figured it all out now...

Creep is a mouse troll!

That thought definitely occurred to me.

[Fpoonsie]

Are you claiming they are in on the conspiracy?

He's been saying that from the get-go. Lulz.

[Fpoonsie]

I'll even concede Creepn's argument (merely just for the sake of it) that they BOTH could claim self-defense.

It just so happens that Z defended himself a whole helluva lot better.

[Creepn]

The police said he had a broken nose and that his injuries were totally consistent with the story he told them.. Are you claiming they are in on the conspiracy?

I would not be surprised. Zimmerman already gotten off on charges before when he should've done time.

[Wild Cobra]

I'll even concede Creepn's argument (merely just for the sake of it) that they BOTH could claim self-defense.

It just so happens that Z defended himself a whole helluva lot better.
Yep.

I said early on that Martin may have thought he was "standing his ground." Still, it was pretty stupid of Martin to attack a person on unknown capacity. Many of us easy looking targets do carry, for defense.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm still laughing at your theory that Zimmerman pulled the gun on Martin and Martin attacked him with his fists in self defense.

Gun>>>>>>>>>Fists

If that's what actually happened then it was darwinian selection at work.

[Spurminator]

Yeah if Martin was carrying a gun and shot Zimmerman in self defense, I'm sure you guys would be bending over backwards to defend him.

[Fpoonsie]

I'm still laughing at your theory that Zimmerman pulled the gun on Martin and Martin attacked him with his fists in self defense.

Hell, that only worked about 10% of the time when I'd run outta ammo on GTA.

[CosmicCowboy]

Yeah if Martin was carrying a gun and shot Zimmerman in self defense, I'm sure you guys would be bending over backwards to defend him.

If Martin had a broken nose and Zimmerman was seen sitting on his chest pounding his head into the concrete then Hell yes I would defend Martin.

[DisAsTerBot]

Yeah if Martin was carrying a gun and shot Zimmerman in self defense, I'm sure you guys would be bending over backwards to defend him.

what would be to defend if he shot him in self defense? justified :lol

[Winehole23]

Are you claiming they are in on the conspiracy?I see no evidence of conspiracy here, but some recent history reflects poorly on the Sanford PD.

In 2006 two private security guards—one the son of a Sanford police officer, the other a volunteer for the department—killed a black teen with a gunshot in his back. Even though they admitted to never identifying themselves, the guards were released without charges. Then, in 2010, Justin Collison, the son of a Sanford PD lieutenant, sucker-punched a homeless black man outside a bar, and officers on the scene released Collison without charges. He eventually surrendered after video of the incident materialized online; the police chief at the time was ultimately forced into retirement. "Bottom line, we didn't do our job that night," a police department representative told local news station WFTV of the incident.

As it would turn out, the Sanford patrol sergeant in charge on the night of Collison's assault, Anthony Raimondo, would also be the first supervisor on the scene of Trayvon Martin's shooting death.
http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03/trayvon-martin-sanford-racial-history

[JoeChalupa]

I'm still laughing at your theory that Zimmerman pulled the gun on Martin and Martin attacked him with his fists in self defense.

Gun>>>>>>>>>Fists

If that's what actually happened then it was darwinian selection at work.


A gun doesn't mean one won't defend themselves. It could very well be Martin decided to get the upper hand and figured he'd better throw the first punch rather than just stand there and get shot.
I didn't see any evidence of a broken nose, hits to the back of the head or blood on Zimmerman's clothing. I wonder if they will look at Zimmermans cell phone records to see if he called his dad right after the shooting.

[Wild Cobra]

Yeah if Martin was carrying a gun and shot Zimmerman in self defense, I'm sure you guys would be bending over backwards to defend him.
But then it wouldn't be a national fabricated sob story for racial injustice.

[DisAsTerBot]

I see no evidence of conspiracy here, but some recent history reflects poorly on the Sanford PD.


you mean like TM's recent history:stirpot:

[Fpoonsie]

I didn't see any evidence of hits to the back of the head

Then you haven't been paying fucking attention.

[cantthinkofanything]

But then it wouldn't be a national fabricated sob story for racial injustice.

Ironic that Skittles are involved.

[Fpoonsie]

Ironic that Skittles are involved.

I bet the Mars company collectively creamed themselves when this news broke.

[cantthinkofanything]

I bet the Mars company collectively creamed themselves when this news broke.

I wonder if they will come out with a bag of black and white Skittles.

[cantthinkofanything]

^ and brown, yellow and red of course.

[Wild Cobra]

I see no evidence of conspiracy here, but some recent history reflects poorly on the Sanford PD.
http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03/trayvon-martin-sanford-racial-history

It's kind of weak to use that. Raimondo releasing Collison at the time could have been because of no on sight evidence, until the tape was seen.

[JoeChalupa]

Then you haven't been paying fucking attention.

Yes I have and I don't see any fucking bruising.

[JoeChalupa]

The police said he had a broken nose and that his injuries were totally consistent with the story he told them.. Are you claiming they are in on the conspiracy?

You can also change your story and the injuries still be consistent.

[DarrinS]

Yes I have and I don't see any fucking bruising.

I thought I posted a still image that appears to show a dark area on the back of his head. Granted, it is shitty video quality. Kind of like trying to hear "koons" in a shitty audio recording. Sounded more like he said "punks" to me.

[DarrinS]

But then again, I didn't reflexively join the hoodie mob.

[JoeChalupa]

I thought I posted a still image that appears to show a dark area on the back of his head. Granted, it is shitty video quality. Kind of like trying to hear "koons" in a shitty audio recording. Sounded more like he said "punks" to me.


That didn't look like anything to me and I didn't go back and go thru every post but from what I saw I didn't see any proof of getting your head slammed

[ChumpDumper]

But then again, I didn't reflexively join the hoodie mob.You reflexively joined the Charles Bronson mob.

[Winehole23]

It's kind of weak to use that.I don't believe there's a conspiracy, but history is part of the big picture. Sanford FLA has had some racial troubles.

[CosmicCowboy]

You can also change your story and the injuries still be consistent.

Or Zimmerman could have gone and smashed his face and head into a wall trying to duplicate the injuries to back up the story he insidiously created mere seconds before the police showed up but c'mon...there was an eye witness that saw Martin beating the shit out of him and Zimmerman screaming for help like a little girl...you and creeepn are just making shit up now...

[DarrinS]

You reflexively joined the Charles Bronson mob.


Not so. Zimmerman is a wannabe Barney Fife who behaved "stupidly". I just still believe in "innocent until proven guilty". Do you?

[DarrinS]

That didn't look like anything to me and I didn't go back and go thru every post but from what I saw I didn't see any proof of getting your head slammed


ok


http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Zimmerman-ABC-video-enhanced-caption.jpg

[Halberto]

Why are people still Talking about bruises? Bruises take HOURS to appear. Those who have been so entranced with the video for evidence are likely ignoring the apparent laceration on the back of zimmermans head.

[JoeChalupa]

Or Zimmerman could have gone and smashed his face and head into a wall trying to duplicate the injuries to back up the story he insidiously created mere seconds before the police showed up but c'mon...there was an eye witness that saw Martin beating the shit out of him and Zimmerman screaming for help like a little girl...you and creeepn are just making shit up now...

There are also eye witnesses that saw Zimmerman on top of Martin and we all know that eye witness testimony isn't always reliable. Two people can witness the same incident and describe them differently.
But I don't doubt that he was getting his ass kicked as Martin stood his ground.

[JoeChalupa]

Why are people still Talking about bruises? Bruises take HOURS to appear. Those who have been so entranced with the video for evidence are likely ignoring the apparent laceration on the back of zimmermans head.

I've been hit in the head and it didn't take no hours for my face get bruised and swollen. Hours my ass.

[CosmicCowboy]

I've been hit in the head and it didn't take no hours for my face get bruised and swollen. Hours my ass.

This shit again?

The law doesn't say he has to be near death to defend himself.

I quote:


However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself.

Getting your head pounded on the concrete clearly qualifies as a "reasonable belief".

Zimmerman is a shithead but it appears from the evidence that has come out so far that he was well within his right under Florida law to shoot Martin.

[ChumpDumper]

Not so. Zimmerman is a wannabe Barney Fife who behaved "stupidly". I just still believe in "innocent until proven guilty". Do you?Sure.

He should have a trial.

[CosmicCowboy]

Sure.

He should have a trial.

Even if the facts and witness statements ultimately collected by the police don't warrant an arrest and trial?

[ChumpDumper]

Even if the facts and witness statements ultimately collected by the police don't warrant an arrest and trial?Then he'll win easily.

But sure, grand jury, whatever. As it is now, his case is a blueprint for people who want to get away with murder. I guess something positive came out of this case for potential murderers in Florida.

[Trill Clinton]

i've been hit in the head and it didn't take no hours for my face get bruised and swollen. Hours my ass.

look!!! Trayvon had no business walking with that thuggish hoodie on gettin' sweet tea and skittles!!!!

He had no business beating up that innocent man who was protecting his neighborhood!!!

Trayvon ran that man down and beat him up for no reason!!!

[CosmicCowboy]

look!!! Trayvon had no business walking with that thuggish hoodie on gettin' sweet tea and skittles!!!!

He had no business beating up that innocent man who was protecting his neighborhood!!!

Trayvon ran that man down and beat him up for no reason!!!

Doesn't matter what his reason was if he did it. Shit like that can get you killed. In this case it did.

[Fpoonsie]

I've been hit in the head and it didn't take no hours for my face get bruised and swollen. Hours my ass.

:madrunOur heads don't bruise the same!!! GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTYYYYYY!!!:madrun

[cantthinkofanything]

:madrunOur heads don't bruise the same!!! GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTYYYYYY!!!:madrun
:lol

[Wild Cobra]

I don't believe there's a conspiracy, but history is part of the big picture. Sanford FLA has had some racial troubles.
can you name me a community of any size that hasn't cried racial injustice?

Do you automatically believe the Boy Who Cried Wolf?

[Wild Cobra]

There are also eye witnesses that saw Zimmerman on top of Martin and we all know that eye witness testimony isn't always reliable. Two people can witness the same incident and describe them differently.
But I don't doubt that he was getting his ass kicked as Martin stood his ground.
Link please.

I never saw that.

[cantthinkofanything]

They should recruit JoeChalupa and Creepn for expert testimony.

[Trill Clinton]

Doesn't matter what his reason was if he did it. Shit like that can get you killed. In this case it did.

well, yea its pretty obvious being black can get you killed.

[cantthinkofanything]

From the potential court transcript...
You guys have built an airtight case


I don't see the imminent death Martin was about to give him.


You don't know that.


I really don't know what's so difficult to understand. Even if Martin was pounding his head against the pavement, its still gun>pavement.


I would not be surprised. Zimmerman already gotten off on charges before when he should've done time.


A gun doesn't mean one won't defend themselves. It could very well be Martin decided to get the upper hand and figured he'd better throw the first punch rather than just stand there and get shot.
I didn't see any evidence of a broken nose, hits to the back of the head or blood on Zimmerman's clothing. I wonder if they will look at Zimmermans cell phone records to see if he called his dad right after the shooting.


Yes I have and I don't see any fucking bruising.


I've been hit in the head and it didn't take no hours for my face get bruised and swollen. Hours my ass.

[Halberto]

"I've been hit in the head and it didn't take no hours for my face get bruised and swollen. Hours my ass."


:lol

sounds like you should see a doctor man, because thats not normal.

[Nbadan]

Phone records obtained by ABC News show that the girl called Martin at 7:12 p.m., five minutes before police arrived, and remained on the phone with Martin until moments before he was shot.

DeeDee said Martin turned around and asked Zimmerman why he was following him.

"The man said what are you doing around here?" DeeDee recalled Zimmerman saying.

She said she heard someone pushed into the grass before the call was dropped.

http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-video-shows-no-blood-bruises-george-194108003--abc-news-topstories.html

[Nbadan]

Tonight on AC360: Witness: George Zimmerman 'didn't appear hurt'

An eyewitness to the Trayvon Martin shooting says George Zimmerman didn't look injured after the incident.

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/29/tonight-on-ac360-witness-george-zimmerman-didnt-appear-hurt/

[Creepn]

Tonight on AC360: Witness: George Zimmerman 'didn't appear hurt'


http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/29/tonight-on-ac360-witness-george-zimmerman-didnt-appear-hurt/

So we got a new witness that actually saw the whole thing? Well this should be interesting.

[Trill Clinton]

So we got a new witness that actually saw the whole thing? Well this should be interesting.


yup, a new witness is saying he saw zimmerman getting up and didn't appear hurt. He's also saying the scuffle happened on grass.

Its gonna be on anderson cooper 360 tonight.

[CosmicCowboy]

Anderson Cooper....:lmao

[CosmicCowboy]

Being mortally injured is not the threshold of the law. Please try to keep up.

[CosmicCowboy]

The new eye witness just confirmed Zimmerman was on the ground with Mr. Martin on top of him when the shot was fired.

Thanks for playing

[ploto]

Trayvon Martin was buried in Miami with a gunshot wound to his chest. But otherwise, according to Richard Kurtz, the funeral director who prepared Martin for burial, his body showed no injuries.

"We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight," he said. "The hands -- I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you. And that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there."


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57406725/martin-funeral-director-no-signs-of-fight-on-body/

[CosmicCowboy]

Trayvon Martin was buried in Miami with a gunshot wound to his chest. But otherwise, according to Richard Kurtz, the funeral director who prepared Martin for burial, his body showed no injuries.

"We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight," he said. "The hands -- I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you. And that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there."


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57406725/martin-funeral-director-no-signs-of-fight-on-body/

OK, now it was just an act of god that Zimmerman got his ass kicked.

Next?

[CosmicCowboy]

Trayvon Martin was buried in Miami with a gunshot wound to his chest. But otherwise, according to Richard Kurtz, the funeral director who prepared Martin for burial, his body showed no injuries.

"We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight," he said. "The hands -- I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you. And that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there."


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57406725/martin-funeral-director-no-signs-of-fight-on-body/

Pretty well blows the theory that Zimmerman attacked him first too...no bruising on the cheeks or on the face?

[ChumpDumper]

Pretty well blows the theory that Zimmerman attacked him first too...no bruising on the cheeks or on the face?Man, your bias is amazing.

Fights can only start with blows to the face.

[CosmicCowboy]

Man, your bias is amazing.

Fights can only start with blows to the face.

:lmao

Its not a bias chump.

I think Zimmerman is a fucking asshole.

At the same time, you can give me NO reason that he could be convicted under Florida law based on the evidence that has been made public.

Please try to keep up.

[Sec24Row7]

Pretty well blows the theory that Zimmerman attacked him first too...no bruising on the cheeks or on the face?

You don't bruise if you are dead... bruises are caused by blood flow to the areas... no blood flow... no bruises...

[MannyIsGod]

Pretty well blows the theory that Zimmerman attacked him first too...no bruising on the cheeks or on the face?

You might want to read it again. Pretty much blows the theory that there was a fight if you want to make any arguement.

[CosmicCowboy]

You don't bruise if you are dead... bruises are caused by blood flow to the areas... no blood flow... no bruises...

accepted.

I guess that would apply to knuckles as well?

Can we agree that Anderson Cooper is full of shit?...:toast

[CosmicCowboy]

You might want to read it again. Pretty much blows the theory that there was a fight if you want to make any arguement.

Please see the previous corrections and admissions.

[MannyIsGod]

CC, I gotta say, you're being a complete bitch. On one hand you're claiming that people somehow shouldn't rush to judgement and then you're saying shit like thanks for playing as if you somehow proved something. Thats fucking retarded.

And the next person that says "innocent till proven guilty" needs to be punched in the damn face. That applies to a damn trial, not believing someone is guilty. If we weren't allowed to believe someone was guilty not a single person would be prosecuted.

The guy had a fucking stupid history and should not have been carrying. He started the fucking altercation and that directly led to the kid getting killed. He's guilty of something and if he's not guilty of anything in Florida law then Florida law is fucking retarded.

[Fpoonsie]

Florida law is fucking retarded.

Uh. Pretty sure no one's argued otherwise.

[CosmicCowboy]

CC, I gotta say, you're being a complete bitch. On one hand you're claiming that people somehow shouldn't rush to judgement and then you're saying shit like thanks for playing as if you somehow proved something. Thats fucking retarded.

And the next person that says "innocent till proven guilty" needs to be punched in the damn face. That applies to a damn trial, not believing someone is guilty. If we weren't allowed to believe someone was guilty not a single person would be prosecuted.

The guy had a fucking stupid history and should not have been carrying. He started the fucking altercation and that directly led to the kid getting killed. He's guilty of something and if he's not guilty of anything in Florida law then Florida law is fucking retarded.

I said on like page two before all the evidence came out that I suspected it was a horrible misunderstanding from both of them.

Zimmerman for profiling Martin and Following him.

Martin for responding pre-emptiveley with violence.

Two idiots met at the wrong time in the wrong place.

[boutons_deux]

"Florida law is fucking retarded."

was proven when FL elected criminal fraudster Rick Scott governor.

[Creepn]

That witness blew that "Martin jumped at me on my way to the car" bullshit out of the water. Witness didn't indicate any slamming heads on the concrete either.

[Sec24Row7]

CC, I gotta say, you're being a complete bitch. On one hand you're claiming that people somehow shouldn't rush to judgement and then you're saying shit like thanks for playing as if you somehow proved something. Thats fucking retarded.

And the next person that says "innocent till proven guilty" needs to be punched in the damn face. That applies to a damn trial, not believing someone is guilty. If we weren't allowed to believe someone was guilty not a single person would be prosecuted.

The guy had a fucking stupid history and should not have been carrying. He started the fucking altercation and that directly led to the kid getting killed. He's guilty of something and if he's not guilty of anything in Florida law then Florida law is fucking retarded.


Sheep are hilarious...

How did that Straus-Kahn thing work out for you when you sided with police?

How did the Duke Lacrosse thing work out?

Lets just all blindly rage against "the man" committing crimes against minorities when the opportunity arises regardless of who is actually in the wrong.

:bang

[GSH]

Sheep are hilarious...

How did that Straus-Kahn thing work out for you when you sided with police?

How did the Duke Lacrosse thing work out?

Lets just all blindly rage against "the man" committing crimes against minorities when the opportunity arises regardless of who is actually in the wrong.

:bang


It worked out exactly the way they intended. Persecute and defame, and when the party is over, move on to someone else.

You're still living under the delusion that things like "facts" and "right and wrong" have any meaning. Boutons himself said the other day that it doens't matter if something is true, as long as it serves the desired purpose.

[MannyIsGod]

Sheep are hilarious...

How did that Straus-Kahn thing work out for you when you sided with police?

How did the Duke Lacrosse thing work out?

Lets just all blindly rage against "the man" committing crimes against minorities when the opportunity arises regardless of who is actually in the wrong.

:bang

The guy was just arrested for resisting arrest and battery on a police officer. You want to tell me why he should have been allowed a concealed weapon?

:lol @ you standing up for Straus-Kahn. No doubt in my mind he was guilty.

Duke Lacross? Really? What was my viewpoint on that? Who's the sheep here?

Now do me a favor. Read my posts in this thread. There are only a few of them, so it shouldn't be very hard for you. Tell me how many times I've even mentioned race. I'll await your response unless you decide to simply be a bitch and not respond.

[MannyIsGod]

Uh. Pretty sure no one's argued otherwise.

You sure about that?

[GSH]

The guy was just arrested for resisting arrest and battery on a police officer. You want to tell me why he should have been allowed a concealed weapon?

:lol @ you standing up for Straus-Kahn. No doubt in my mind he was guilty.

Duke Lacross? Really? What was my viewpoint on that? Who's the sheep here?

Now do me a favor. Read my posts in this thread. There are only a few of them, so it shouldn't be very hard for you. Tell me how many times I've even mentioned race. I'll await your response unless you decide to simply be a bitch and not respond.

You know, Manny, I really don't know what you have specifically said on the subject. I guess I can't retract, but I apologize.

His having a CCP, with those charges, worries me too. I don't know the specifics, and charges aren't the same thing as "guilty". But I really don't like the looks of that part.

[DarrinS]

And the next person that says "innocent till proven guilty" needs to be punched in the damn face. That applies to a damn trial, not believing someone is guilty. If we weren't allowed to believe someone was guilty not a single person would be prosecuted.

lol

[MannyIsGod]

You know, Manny, I really don't know what you have specifically said on the subject. I guess I can't retract, but I apologize.

His having a CCP, with those charges, worries me too. I don't know the specifics, and charges aren't the same thing as "guilty". But I really don't like the looks of that part.

I'm a huge proponent of CHL laws but this is the exact kind of fuck that will become the poster child against them. When I argue for them, I point out to people how those who receive CHLs are much less likely to commit a crime. George Zimmerman does not fit that profile. He actively sought out situations where he could act as Steven Segal and that is exactly the kind of person you do NOT want to be walking around packing.

[GSH]

And the next person that says "innocent till proven guilty" needs to be punched in the damn face. That applies to a damn trial, not believing someone is guilty. If we weren't allowed to believe someone was guilty not a single person would be prosecuted.




Oh, shit. And then I read that comment. Punched in the face? You wingnuts are a violent bunch, aren't you?

People are entitled to think whatever they want. They aren't entitled to put out calls for bringing the man in "dead or alive". They aren't entitled to defame people. They aren't entitled to put up posters offering a reward for his kidnapping. They aren't entitled to tweet the address of innocent people, and suggest that people "pay them a visit". They aren't entitled to loot stores "in protest".

You're too smart to not note the difference.

[DarrinS]

By no means do I assume Z is innocent. If he wasn't some hyper vigilant, paranoid doofus, that kid would still be alive. I just take issue with how the media and professional race-baiters (Sharpton is both) handled this. Hopefully, Z stands trial.

[GSH]

By no means do I assume Z is innocent. If he wasn't some hyper vigilant, paranoid doofus, that kid would still be alive. I just take issue with how the media and professional race-baiters (Sharpton is both) handled this. Hopefully, Z stands trial.

Hell yes he should stand trial. I want to believe that they would have gotten there, and I shudder to think that they might not have.

But this other stuff going on? That's just as big of a problem as the original incident.

[Sec24Row7]

The guy was just arrested for resisting arrest and battery on a police officer. You want to tell me why he should have been allowed a concealed weapon?


:lol @ you standing up for Straus-Kahn. No doubt in my mind he was guilty.

Duke Lacross? Really? What was my viewpoint on that? Who's the sheep here?

Now do me a favor. Read my posts in this thread. There are only a few of them, so it shouldn't be very hard for you. Tell me how many times I've even mentioned race. I'll await your response unless you decide to simply be a bitch and not respond.

Because he wasn't convicted?

Thats why I didn't mention YOU in that line idiot... I looked to see if I could find your opinion... but luckily... for you... I couldn't... so I didn't.

This justice colored by race mentality is a huge problem in this country...

fEiI_04R_mA

Don't tell me race has nothing to do with your opinion. I can jump to any conclusion I want regardless of evidence to the contrary... didn't you just make that argument a couple of posts ago about the guilt of a shooter? Deciding someone I have actually talked to is a reverse racist seems like a hell of a lot less of a stretch.

[GSH]

Oh, and one more thing, Manny. Obama should have absolutely said, "I really can't comment on an ongoing investigation, without having the facts." What he did was beyond inappropriate. He's supposed to be President. What he did was irresponsible, just like his comment about the Boston police, back when.

[Creepn]

Oh, and one more thing, Manny. Obama should have absolutely said, "I really can't comment on an ongoing investigation, without having the facts." What he did was beyond inappropriate. He's supposed to be President. What he did was irresponsible, just like his comment about the Boston police, back when.

That's basically what Obama said moron.

[DMX7]

Oh, and one more thing, Manny. Obama should have absolutely said, "I really can't comment on an ongoing investigation, without having the facts." What he did was beyond inappropriate. He's supposed to be President. What he did was irresponsible, just like his comment about the Boston police, back when.

I can't comment on an on-going investigation? That's what Obama was supposed to say, lolz? ...And what exactly did he say that was wrong/inappropriate?

[DarrinS]

That's basically what Obama said moron.

No he didn't.

[DarrinS]

I can only imagine the reaction if Bush had said that.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

Oh, and one more thing, Manny. Obama should have absolutely said, "I really can't comment on an ongoing investigation, without having the facts." What he did was beyond inappropriate. He's supposed to be President. What he did was irresponsible, just like his comment about the Boston police, back when.

This is total BS. He was very Presidential and to say his statement was hateful is ridiculous. Zimmerman's father's comments were irresponsible.

[GSH]

No he didn't.


The reaction he got, from both sides, proves that. And they know that. It's the wingnut creed that the ends justify the means. And in their world, race-baiting is necessary.

[DMX7]

The reaction he got, from both sides, proves that. And they know that. It's the wingnut creed that the ends justify the means. And in their world, race-baiting is necessary.

There was no race baiting - absolutely none. You're living inside the republican fact-free bubble.

[GSH]

This is total BS. He was very Presidential and to say his statement was hateful is ridiculous. Zimmerman's father's comments were irresponsible.

Trayvon's parents insisted that the person calling for help was not their son. Then, when it was necessary for their narrative, they said that it was absolutely their son.

Trayvon's parents said that their boy could never do anything to incite another person, and that he didn't get kicked out of school for "anything illegal". And when the facts proved those things wrong, they insist that people are smearing their son's name. Doesn't matter that those things were nothing but a rebuttal of the lies they told.

Trayvon's parents trademarked "I am Trayvon" and "Justice for Trayvon" to make a buck off the death of their son.

Don't talk about irresponsible parents, you twit.

[Spurminator]

It's amazing how you can present perfectly reasonable arguments on one hand and still be distracted by ridiculous talking points like "Obama's comments were race-baiting." Are you really that easily manipulated?

[Spurminator]

I can only imagine the reaction if Bush had said that.

You would have supported him, you partisan fuck.

[Spurminator]

Obama commented on what was a shitty situation where a kid died by basically saying "It's a shitty situation where a kid died." If you've read more into it than that, it's because you're easily manipulated by people who prey on stupid people to push an agenda. There's really not much more to say about it than that.

[DMX7]

Trayvon's parents insisted that the person calling for help was not their son. Then, when it was necessary for their narrative, they said that it was absolutely their son.

Trayvon's parents said that their boy could never do anything to incite another person, and that he didn't get kicked out of school for "anything illegal". And when the facts proved those things wrong, they insist that people are smearing their son's name. Doesn't matter that those things were nothing but a rebuttal of the lies they told.

Trayvon's parents trademarked "I am Trayvon" and "Justice for Trayvon" to make a buck off the death of their son.

Don't talk about irresponsible parents, you twit.

Just exposed yourself as completely full of shit again.

_____________________________________________

The family attorney, Natalie Jackson, told RadarOnline.com exclusively: "I want to set the record straight, the trademarks were applied for so that no one can profit from or promote their own agendas using Trayvon Martin. Trayvon's parents will never seek to financially profit from these trademarks, period. I can't emphasize that point enough. They haven't even been able to mourn his death because they are seeking justice for his death.

"Their son is dead and it's insulting for people to think that they are thinking about profiting from this horrific tragedy. It's sad that there are those out there that are attempting to make money off of Trayvon's death and that his parents had to do this."

[DarrinS]

You would have supported him, you partisan fuck.

Lol gfy

[Creepn]

ANYWAY, new witness did not indicate any head slamming on concrete. He said the fight was on the grass. Those who said that Zimmerman's life was facing death because of the head slam goes out the window.

Another thing the witness stated was that although he couldn't tell who was on top, he indicated that Zimmerman was the one on top. He said, he heard the shot and the person got up really quickly. He didn't see anybody sliding out from under the body.

[SnakeBoy]

He's guilty of something and if he's not guilty of anything in Florida law then Florida law is fucking retarded.

If the new accounts are true and he was returning to his vehicle and it was Martin who instigated the the assault then what would Zimmerman be guilty of?

[Creepn]

If the new accounts are true and he was returning to his vehicle and it was Martin who instigated the the assault then what would Zimmerman be guilty of?

That's not the new account. New witness indicated they weren't near the car.

[SnakeBoy]

That's not the new account. New witness indicated they weren't near the car.



In his version of events, he had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words then Trayvon punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.

Zimmerman told police he shot the teenager in self-defense...

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.

UPDATE -- A later story adds "Zimmerman told police he he'd lost sight of Martin and was heading back to his car when the youth suddenly stepped into his path. According to the Sentinel, Martin asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cellphone. Martin then said something like, "Well, you do now" and punched him, according to the Sentinel's sources............

And though it doesn't really sound true to me -- an unarmed teenager approaching, confronting and then attacking a larger man who'd been following him? -- the Sentinel story tells us that "much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say."

I initially felt there was no way Zimmerman wasn't guilty of at least voluntary manslaughter but now I'm just reserving judgement until the facts really come out. The media and police are doing a horrible job so far.

[Fpoonsie]

He said the fight was on the grass. Those who said that Zimmerman's life was facing death because of the head slam goes out the window.

:lol

Concrete or not, how boutchoo let the next street brawler you mix it up with repeatedly slam your head into the grass, and you tell me how pillowy soft the ground is...

[Creepn]

:lol

Concrete or not, how boutchoo let the next street brawler you mix it up with repeatedly slam your head into the grass, and you tell me how pillowy soft the ground is...

ah here you go again with your stupid ebonics again :rolleyes. Anyway, having your head slammed into MUD since it was raining doesn't really equate to the same damage as concrete.

And again, no witnesses claim to see any head slamming.

[jack sommerset]

Guy will walk. I thought he was straight up guilty but now I have doubts. Demons were involved and that's all I know. God bless.

Ps someone start a thread on healthcare and the supreme court.

[Nancy Grace]

The tape shows Zimmerman in hand cuffs. When you arrest someone the cuffs come out. That means he was under arrest until the decision was reversed.

[Fpoonsie]

ah here you go again with your stupid ebonics again :rolleyes. Anyway, having your head slammed into MUD since it was raining doesn't really equate to the same damage as concrete.

And again, no witnesses claim to see any head slamming.

I still don't get the "ebonics" smack.

And you don't KNOW that it was mud. Hell, we don't even KNOW it wasn't on concrete. Every story seems to contradict.

[Creepn]

George Zimmerman was fired from his job as an under-the-table security guard for “being too aggressive,” a former co-worker told the Daily News.Zimmerman, at the center of a firestorm for shooting an unarmed black teenager a month ago, worked for two different agencies providing security to illegal house parties between 2001 and 2005, the former co-worker said.“Usually he was just a cool guy. He liked to drink and hang with the women like the rest of us,” he said. “But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped.”The source said Zimmerman, who made between $50 and $100 a night, was let go in 2005.“He had a temper and he became a liability,” the man said. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”The year 2005 was a bad one for Zimmerman: he was arrested for fighting with a cop trying to arrest his friend for underage drinking, and he and his ex-fiancée took out protective orders against each other.The former co-worker, who is no longer in touch with Zimmerman, said he was shocked to hear what happened Feb. 26 in a gated community in Sanford, Fla.“He definitely loved being in charge. He loved the power.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-lost-job-party-security-guard-aggressive-ex-co-worker-article-1.1053223

[Creepn]

double post

[Wild Cobra]

Trayvon Martin was buried in Miami with a gunshot wound to his chest. But otherwise, according to Richard Kurtz, the funeral director who prepared Martin for burial, his body showed no injuries.

"We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight," he said. "The hands -- I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you. And that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there."


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57406725/martin-funeral-director-no-signs-of-fight-on-body/
Richard Kurtz is not an expert on such things. Since martin died within minutes of the start of the beating, there would be no time for bruising to show. This is something the experts who do the autopsy would have to tell us. Not someone who applies makeup to dead people.

[Wild Cobra]

The guy was just arrested for resisting arrest and battery on a police officer. You want to tell me why he should have been allowed a concealed weapon?

Because 1... he was not convicted. 2... many of you want to say the police are racist. if so, maybe it was a false arrest against an Hispanic.

Manny, If you don't believe in innocent till proven guilty, then maybe you should move someplace like North Korea.

My God... lose rights without a conviction... You are crazy.

[Winehole23]

you mean like TM's recent history:stirpot:Corroborated facts outrank wild speculation, surely, but granted: history ain't always pretty.

[ploto]

Since martin died within minutes of the start of the beating, there would be no time for bruising to show.

His body sat in the morgue for a number of days before it was prepared for burial. I would assume that scratches would still show even if there was no time for bruising to form.

[Sportcamper]

I assumed that Zimmerman was dressed in some type of security uniform which would identify him as a neighborhood watch person…The video show Zimmerman dressed in street clothes & let’s be honest Zimmerman looks like a thug…This does not bother you guys? Who cares if Martin popped Zimmerman, the kid was afraid of the guy who was stalking him….

[CosmicCowboy]

I assumed that Zimmerman was dressed in some type of security uniform which would identify him as a neighborhood watch person…The video show Zimmerman dressed in street clothes & let’s be honest Zimmerman looks like a thug…This does not bother you guys? Who cares if Martin popped Zimmerman, the kid was afraid of the guy who was stalking him….

:lol

:stirpot:

[DarkReign]

I really do not give a flying fuck about this media frenzy, but I just wanted to ask about something I had heard about this...

Is it true that Zimmerman's first name is actually Jorge, not George?

If so, what exactly does this change about the public perception and media outrage?

One would hope nothing but I have a feeling it changes things immensely. If true, it isnt White on Black crime, its Latino on Black crime which means no one particualrly cares again because there isnt anything to be outraged about.

[Creepn]

It became racial because the majority of the people heard "fucking coons". Honestly I don't see white vs black crime or latino vs black crime because racism is practiced by the individual no matter what they are. I really hope that people understand this, especially the angry blacks who are so emotionally attached to this. But I can understand white people trying to point out that Zimmerman is hispanic.

[MannyIsGod]

Its amazing how so many conversations I enter into on this board turn into me somehow having to justify shit I've never even said. Why do people automatically assign viewpoints to someone based on some completely unrelated political philosophy?

So you're obviously against capital punishment because you like pizza. Obviously.

[ChumpDumper]

This forum specializes in straw.

[MannyIsGod]

Because 1... he was not convicted. 2... many of you want to say the police are racist. if so, maybe it was a false arrest against an Hispanic.

Manny, If you don't believe in innocent till proven guilty, then maybe you should move someplace like North Korea.

My God... lose rights without a conviction... You are crazy.

Carrying concealed is not a right.

[MannyIsGod]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-lost-job-party-security-guard-aggressive-ex-co-worker-article-1.1053223

Hand this man a CHL please.

[ChumpDumper]

Hand this man a CHL please.His daddy's a retired judge. That's a license to kill.

[Wild Cobra]

Carrying concealed is not a right.
Still, you don't lose your legal privileges by an arrest alone. Nit pick if you want, but the arrest was dropped.

[xrayzebra]

New twist to the ongoing saga......

Texas lawyers offer $10,000 for George Zimmerman's legal defense

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-30/news/os-george-zimmerman-lawyers-offer-10000-20120330_1_shooting-death-legal-expenses-legal-defense

[Creepn]

New twist to the ongoing saga......

Texas lawyers offer $10,000 for George Zimmerman's legal defense

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-30/news/os-george-zimmerman-lawyers-offer-10000-20120330_1_shooting-death-legal-expenses-legal-defense

The group represents gun owner self defense which is fine and dandy but they are taking a huge risk contributing for Zimmerman imo.

[Nbadan]

Forensic's expert rules out Zimmerman crying for help...


As the Trayvon Martin controversy splinters into a debate about self-defense, a central question remains: Who was heard crying for help on a 911 call in the moments before the teen was shot?

A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.

His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.

Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman. Another expert contacted by the Sentinel, utilizing different techniques, came to the same conclusion.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

[Goran Dragic]

I assumed that Zimmerman was dressed in some type of security uniform which would identify him as a neighborhood watch person
What kind of uniforms do self appointed neighborhood watch people wear?

It seemed obvious from the get go there was no way to identify Zimmerman as any kind of security.

[CosmicCowboy]

What kind of uniforms do self appointed neighborhood watch people wear?

It seemed obvious from the get go there was no way to identify Zimmerman as any kind of security.

:lol Goran dufus got trolled.

[CosmicCowboy]

Forensic's expert rules out Zimmerman crying for help...



http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-31/news/os-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-911-20120331_1_voice-identification-expert-reasonable-scientific-certainty

:lol

15 minutes of fame

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah I always find those guys suspect.

[Wild Cobra]

As the Trayvon Martin controversy splinters into a debate about self-defense, a central question remains: Who was heard crying for help on a 911 call in the moments before the teen was shot?

A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel.

His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help.

Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman. Another expert contacted by the Sentinel, utilizing different techniques, came to the same conclusion.
:lol

15 minutes of fame
LOL...

No shit.

48% match... wasn't 0%...

I'll bet the software doesn't account for heart rate, adrenaline, sound at a distance through windows, etc. Then what type of phone? Land line, cell phone, etc. this will make a difference on the quality, and screaming has higher pitches than the nominal low pass filtering of voice systems that is around 3400 to 3600 hz.

The scream vs. a voice... Did they ask Zimmerman to scream for them like he was wetting his panties?

Sorry, I don't believe software can do what he tried to do with any reliability. 48% is probably as close of a match as they will get with anyone.

[CosmicCowboy]

Yeah I always find those guys suspect.

C'mon Manny. Read it again. No baseline for either one. Not even a comparison of any kind for Martin. You really call that science? Definitive proof?

15 minutes....*poof*

[MannyIsGod]

....I was agreeing with you...

:lol

[Wild Cobra]

C'mon Manny. Read it again. No baseline for either one. Not even a comparison of any kind for Martin. You really call that science? Definitive proof?

15 minutes....*poof*
I gave Manny the benefit of doubt, thinking he meant the analyst was full of shit.

[Fabbs]

Yeah I always find those guys suspect.
Yep. Blood spattering dork Asian guy that OJs defense team hired. Lots made him sound like the cats meow.

[CosmicCowboy]

....I was agreeing with you...

:lol

:lol

Sorry.

I get punchy with Bouchump always biting my ankles.

[Wild Cobra]

Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC
Any bets on if Owen hurt his business or not?

[TheProfessor]

Any bets on if Owen hurt his business or not?
Free publicity.

[ploto]

LOL...

No shit.

48% match... wasn't 0%...

I'll bet the software doesn't account for heart rate, adrenaline, sound at a distance through windows, etc. Then what type of phone? Land line, cell phone, etc. this will make a difference on the quality, and screaming has higher pitches than the nominal low pass filtering of voice systems that is around 3400 to 3600 hz.

The scream vs. a voice... Did they ask Zimmerman to scream for them like he was wetting his panties?

Sorry, I don't believe software can do what he tried to do with any reliability. 48% is probably as close of a match as they will get with anyone.

The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.

[Wild Cobra]

Free publicity.
Yes, but he is so wrong about being able to assess such a thing with any degree of confidence.

I'll bet this will hurt his business.

Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent.
I will agree under normal situations. How many screams for help has he analyzed under such situations accurately before?

And... there are at least two witnesses who say it was Zimmerman crying for help, and I think I heard there is a third.

Owen Forensic Services LLC (http://www.owlinvestigations.com/about.html)

[MannyIsGod]

The problem is that you can't "rule him out" simply because you can't confirm it was him.

[Wild Cobra]

The problem is that you can't "rule him out" simply because you can't confirm it was him.
This is true. However, 48% is not a certain "it wasn't him" under the circumstances. The voice is complicated, and there are ways that software can break down and compare signatures. Still, too many variables under the circumstances to account for. Notice he didn't say he compared a voice print of Martin's? I'll lay odds it would be less than 48%.

[GSH]

Trayvon Martin was buried in Miami with a gunshot wound to his chest. But otherwise, according to Richard Kurtz, the funeral director who prepared Martin for burial, his body showed no injuries.

"We could see no physical signs like there had been a scuffle [or] there had been a fight," he said. "The hands -- I didn't see any knuckles, bruises or what have you. And that is something we would have covered up if it would have been there."


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57406725/martin-funeral-director-no-signs-of-fight-on-body/


LMAO - just keep quoting bullshit from these idiots. Even MSNBC has been forced to admit that Zimmerman did, in fact, have an injury on the BACK of his head. Even they are smart enough to know that their first story is falling apart. Now they're re-framing the debate to be, "Okay, so Trayvon beat Zimmerman. But did he beat him ENOUGH to deserve getting shot?"

And now NBC is having to do an internal investigation, because they got caught playing a selectively edited 911 recording that made Zimmerman sound racist, rather than showing that he was just answering the dispatcher's question. Isn't that cute? One of our major networks, intentionally manipulating evidence to create even more controversy and racial divide? But, man, did it drive ratings.


Edit: BTW - Since it now is a given that Trayvon did, in fact, injure Zimmerman on the BACK of his head, why do you think he (Trayvon) would have been the one screaming? Even the "ear witnesses" have said that it sounded like someone in pain. How do you think Trayvon managed to get to the back of Zimmerman's head, if Zimmerman had a gun pointed at him, and had every intent of shooting him?

It's just like when people said that Trayvon was trying to get away from Zimmerman. Nobody would answer how the fat-ass older guy was able to run down the 17 year-old football star, when he was trying his best to run away. Of course it didn't make sense. But none of you wingnuts wanted to think about that, because it ruined the narrative.

[GSH]

ANYWAY, new witness did not indicate any head slamming on concrete. He said the fight was on the grass. Those who said that Zimmerman's life was facing death because of the head slam goes out the window.

Another thing the witness stated was that although he couldn't tell who was on top, he indicated that Zimmerman was the one on top. He said, he heard the shot and the person got up really quickly. He didn't see anybody sliding out from under the body.


LMAO - you mean the witness who first told AC that he was watching when the shot was actually fired, but then said that he didn't see any muzzle flash? THAT witness? :rollin

And several of the witnesses have said that he had his hand or hands up on his head, "like he was worried". But of course he couldn't have had his hand on his head because he was injured, could he? Not when you've made up your mind about what happened. I'll see if I can find the video where even Chris Matthews has to admit that Zimmerman had an injury on the back of his head. Does that seem like an injury that would happen to the guy on the top, or the guy on the bottom? Heh... you know the answer, whether you want to admit it or not.

[bobbyjoe]

LMAO - you mean the witness who first told AC that he was watching when the shot was actually fired, but then said that he didn't see any muzzle flash? THAT witness? :rollin

And several of the witnesses have said that he had his hand or hands up on his head, "like he was worried". But of course he couldn't have had his hand on his head because he was injured, could he? Not when you've made up your mind about what happened. I'll see if I can find the video where even Chris Matthews has to admit that Zimmerman had an injury on the back of his head. Does that seem like an injury that would happen to the guy on the top, or the guy on the bottom? Heh... you know the answer, whether you want to admit it or not.

- It's not very surprising that the audio voice experts are pretty convinced it wasn't Zimmerman's voice. There's a lot of circumstantial, "common sense" evidence that suggested it was Trayvon crying,

such as:

- The voice certainly sounds at first blush more like a 17 year old than a 28 year old (higher pitched)

- If you listen to the 911 call from the neighbor who's backyard the shooting occured in, there are clearly two gunshots. This was also confirmed by the most recent witness who came out and refused to identify his/her gender who said he heard "two loud popping noises". The screaming voice could be heard before the first gunshot, after the first gunshot and right up until the second gunshot.

- It just doesn't pass the smell test and common sense test that if Zimmerman was screaming for help, that he would continue to do so after firing a gunshot.

- The last yell on the 911 tape occcurs JUST before the final gunshot. I'm not a gun expert, but it seems that Zimmerman would have to be a ridiculously quick draw to yell "HELP" and then pull the gun out of his holster and fire a gunshot less than one second later.

- One other problematic issue with the idea that Zimmeran was the one screaming is that he was the one that was armed. If the guy was in such fear for his life that he felt Trayvon was going to inflict major harm on him and/or flat out kill him, why would he bother screaming for 30 seconds to one minute instead of simply firing his weapon?

- I wouldn't be quick to writeoff the opinion of a voice expert. Experts tend to know their professions much more intricately than non-experts. Special Prosecutor Corey has already said that she was hiring an expert in the biometric field to analyze the voice because she thought determining who exactly the voice was would be critical in determining whether to press charges or not and what level of charge to levy if she ends up going that route.

- Here is the 911 tape I was referencing above. I really implore anyone who's open minded about this case to listen and would love to hear your thoughts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj4RHJ0taoc

- You will hear the first gunshot at :23 seconds and the next words out of the lady's mouth "See, he's shot".

- I've gone back and forth about this case, but the part that makes me think it just seems implausible that Zimmerman's voice is the one on the tape is that the first gunshot actually occurs in the middle of the scream for help. This would mean if it was Zimmerman, he was actually screaming "HELP" AS he was firing a gunshot.

- If you listen to this tape a couple times, you'll notice that the most high pitched and exruciating of the screams occurs right before the first gunshot. Can that really be a coincidence or is that telling us the reason is the most high pitched is that Trayvon saw that Zimmerman was going to shoot him?

[Sportcamper]

What kind of uniforms do self appointed neighborhood watch people wear?

I was being quite serious…The reports I read described Zimmerman as the captain of a neighborhood watch team…I would think they would wear some sort of uniform which would identify them as neighborhood security…

[Sportcamper]

I'll bet the software doesn't account for heart rate, adrenaline, sound at a distance through windows, etc. Then what type of phone? Land line, cell phone, etc. this will make a difference on the quality, and screaming has higher pitches than the nominal low pass filtering of voice systems that is around 3400 to 3600 hz.

nominal low pass filtering of voice systems that is around 3400 to 3600 hz:lmao

This is pure babble…
And for the record the guy who did the comparison was not contacted by the FBI or police department…Which is how it is done…

[TheProfessor]

- I wouldn't be quick to writeoff the opinion of a voice expert. Experts tend to know their professions much more intricately than non-experts. Special Prosecutor Corey has already said that she was hiring an expert in the biometric field to analyze the voice because she thought determining who exactly the voice was would be critical in determining whether to press charges or not and what level of charge to levy if she ends up going that route.
It seems you may not be too familiar with legal experts. As you mentioned, they are hired. They are paid for their professional opinions; if they are not, it is normally because they have not gotten enough experience to charge exorbitant rates and need to stack their resume. Juries are mistrustful of "hired guns" on both sides. Particularly where we're dealing with something like voices, where a voice exemplar in court may be sufficient for a layperson.

[Sportcamper]

Professor I disagree…Cases like this are distributed to several people not just one…Work performed for the F.B.I. and military are done pro bono, (for the good of the public)….A person working on such a project does so in secrecy…He does not blab his findings to the press….

[TheProfessor]

Professor I disagree…Cases like this are distributed to several people not just one…Work performed for the F.B.I. and military are done pro bono, (for the good of the public)….A person working on such a project does so in secrecy…He does not blab his findings to the press….
I get what you're saying regarding prosecution experts, and yes, they do tend to be viewed more favorably by juries. Here, at least at the state level, we're not dealing with an FBI crime lab or the military. There are also still issues (http://www.examiner.com/u-s-district-court-in-houston/harris-county-seeks-delay-or-exoneration-hpd-crime-lab-lawsuit) with crime labs, like we've seen in Harris County, that have caused people to be suspicious of their work.

If we're dealing with experts trying to identify voices, both the prosecution and the defense will likely turn to private entities, which could lead to a "battle of the experts." You see it more in civil law, but it seems like a real possibility here.

[Fabbs]

It be causin a problem.

http://www.trbimg.com/img-4f74bc4c/turbine/la-na-nn-trayvon-cartoon-20120329-001/600

Trayvon Martin case: Texas student's cartoon causes controversy
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-cartoon-20120329,0,2989517.story?track=rss

[IX_Equilibrium]

http://i.imgur.com/XeGXG.jpg

[RandomGuy]

The Republican Base Exposed

by David Atkins

Charles Johnson at LGF once again dives into the comments at FoxNews.com so the rest of us don't have to. This time it's about the murder of Trayvon Martin, and we get to see the real driving animus behind the politics of Fox News viewers:


What a shame—a tragedy, really— because the dead lil’ gangsta could’ve used “‘A-FIRM-TIV AK-SHUN” to go to kollige an play footballz and make lotsa cash munny!”

[…]

Fast and Furious didn’t work to pass new gun control so now Eric Holder will try the race card.

[…]

No matter how crime figures are massaged by those who want to acknowledge or dispute the existence of a Dirty War, there is nothing ambiguous about what the official statistics portray: for the past 45 years a large segment of bIack America has waged a war of v i o l e n t retribution against white America.

[…]

Zimmerman was attacked by the man and defended himself with a gun. Zimmerman’s wounds were verified by police.

[…]

17 = child. LOL!!!!!!

Let the LIB word games begin.

[…]

Yet the “justice department” refuses to prosecute any voter intimidation that involves a blac k as the intimidator.

[…]

Why should anyone care about this kid? Because he is of color? People don’t value kids period. They are property. BTW, I am a conservative that cares a great deal about kids. We follow hundreds of cases each year, many white babies and children, none of them get attention. But he does??

[…]

Zimmerman felt threatened by Martin’s gang’s actions…this could have possibly lead to these terrible circumstances. Gang violence MUST BE STOPPED OBAMA!

[…]

Blacks can do no wrong, period! That is the DOJ’s excuse for becoming involved. 50+ years of being told they are special and entitled and the gov’t’s only focus is to make it so!!

[…]

In any event, it appears to be a case of one sc u m bag Cuban-type (Zimmerman) offing some scummy b l a ck kid (Trayyy-Vonnnn)…in some trash neighborhood….

but now, because the dead kid’s a kneegrow, we have:

the BIG BAD FBI on this “important” case…and

the usual BLACK-RADICAL-PROTESTERS who can’t mind their own business!

[…]

Gated communities exist because people are afraid….& negros thrive on crime…Look at our prisons.

[…]

Need that too….But Negr0s only have their welfare checks….and in any event can’t follow rules

[…]

What time do the riots start? Gotta get my popcorn and munchies ready for the “hood” burning!

[…]

Funny you never see them rally against the drug dealing murderers that control their neighborhoods. LOL!!!

[…]

How does anyone know what this 17 yr old said, Most likely he threw the race card out ” you stop me because I*M B L ACK” and then became threatning. The media alway plants the seed of doubt when when a B l ac k is sh ot by a caucasian

[…]

maybe his gang brothers incited violence too?

[…]

How’d the kid get into the “gated” community in the first place?

[…]

Them monkeys can jump!

[…]

This is going to be a tough case. gang violence is hard to prosecute. martin’s gang may even want to retaliate. this is scary

[…]

Let’s find out why the “po’ baby” was REALLY there!

[…]

The little thug ghetto monkey should have been home doing his homework, not out gang bangin.

[…]

I’m just glad Zimmerman didnt miss and hit an innocent bystander.

[…]

THIS IS PURE RACIST!! When do you ever see the DOJ investigate the death of a white child??

[…]

This is pure B.S I want to see the kids police record even if something is expounged also why was he removed from facebook it says account terminated.Why because his parents are trying to cover his tracks just like if you hit a bus they see Dollar signs.People have dragged data about Zimmerman out where is the kids past.Don’t say he was a good boy prove it.Ask yourself what is more likely to happen any 17 year old kid when you ask a question.A smartass reply I have never and I mean never seen a teenager run unless he did something wrong.I guess no crinimal has ever cased a place when they went to a store.It takes me aback the way all these facts are quoted by people who read one story on a issue.

[…]

Who says his gang wasn’t hiding near by?

[…]

he could be a good kid, but being in a gang doesn’t help his case

[…]

An unfortunate death, but when will DOJ investigate the death of a Caucsasian?

[…]

Here we go again— a LOCAL law enforcement matter (no federal issues) is being hijacked by the FEDS because the alleged “victim” is bl a c k! We all KNOW this kid was up to no good and now he’s feedin’ worms. Too bad-ha ha ha!

[…]

Last night on CNN Anderson Cooper kept referring to zimmerman as white when he knew he was Hispanic I wonder why

[…]

maybe then the kid was not bIack maybe Hawaiian like tiger woods then we can say s p i c s h o o t s Hawaiian

[…]

This has Bl ack racist Holder and his all bl ack racist “DOJ Civil Rights Div” written all over it.

[…]

Crack Skittles the new disguise

[…]

Skittles actually has a couple slang meanings. Could be referring to recreational usage of Coricidin. Also refers to a male getting lipstick marks from young ladies on the member. Taste the rainbow..

[…]

You think the DOJ or main stream will report zimmerman was Hispanic not White

[…]

That is all it was — just another n i qq er. No loss

[…]

He was slinging crack.

[…]

Is tea and skittles slang for guns and crack.

[…]

Skittles is actually slang for recreational usage of Coricidin.

[…]

This is what happens when you join a gang. kids need to learn from Martin’s mistakes

[…]

They should have a hunting season in Florida for these drug crazed gang members.

[…]

This could have had a tragic outcome. His gun could have jammed. Whew!

[…]

At least he didn’t chain him to the back of his truck?!?!?

[…]

How long will it take to get all of those little blk curly nappys out of the White House bedding so that the next POTUS can sleep without that Creepy Crawly feeling .

[…]

The picture is of an innocent choir boy designed to evoke sympathy for the “victum” and justify the skewed actions of a corrupt department of justice.

[…]

the b!ack community has created a sense of fear with the excessive amounts of cr!me and v!olence and the glamorizing and glorification of cr!mes and v!olence through c rap music (term used lightly) and most are rude, crude, nasty and give others the tough guy BS attitude.You people (term also used lightly) made your beds and now have to lie in them………don’t be angry with us or blame us you did this all on your own.

[…]

Hunting, maybe thinning the herd…

[…]

It is obvious the un-civilized B!ACKS who dwell in the greatist nation on earth have never wanted to be part of the TEAM, they CRY and P!SS and MOAN at every given oportunity about fairness and equality, While lining up for the free ride at welfare.
The United States is cursed with these baboons, Who will never gain the ability to stand up and make it on their own without our help.
They are the eternal retarded stepchild , needfull and helpless until the end of time.

[…]

Now the family of the kid has lost there way out of the ghetto.

[…]

ANOTHER TOOKY WILLIAMS, ABORTED.
GOOD SHOT ZIMMY. lol


It's important to be reminded of this when we see Paul Ryan and his crew push budgets that would leave 48 million uninsured. Sure, the plutocrats just want more money. But the Republican base will go along with it, because they're happy to lose their own healthcare if it means also denying it to the "young bucks." This is part of why Barack Obama is the most socialist president evah, despite even his own supporters' acknowledgement of his attempts to undermine liberalism itself.

There is no point in trying to compromise or bargain with these people. Bipartisan fetishists like to pretend that the policies on which Americans agree are much greater than the policies on which we disagree. That's just not true. There is an enormous disconnect between huge swaths of Americans over just what society we should have; just what sort of social views of women and minorities should direct our public policy; and what our basic economic, cultural, and social values should be. Those differences are growing. They are important. They are extremely relevant. They profoundly affect debates on seemingly non-partisan granular policy issues.

And they deserve as much sunlight as humanly possible.

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/republican-base-exposed-by-davidoatkins.html

[mingus]

I would bet my money on the screaming being Trayvon's voice. Unless Zimmerman never left puberty that is just too high pitched to be a grown man's voice.

[Fpoonsie]

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2012/03/republican-base-exposed-by-davidoatkins.html

There's numerous idiots out there, butchoo seriously can't be putting too much stock into anonymous e-posting. As a longtime ST member, you should know better, RG.

[boutons_deux]

Former co-worker: Zimmerman lost security guard job after he ‘snapped’

The neighborhood watchman who in February shot 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was once fired from his job as a security guard for “being too aggressive,” according to a new report.

An unnamed former co-worker told the New York Daily News that George Zimmerman was paid under-the-table for providing security for illegal house parties between 2001 and 2005, but was let go because his anger issues “became a liability.”

“Usually he was just a cool guy,” the former co-worker explained. “He liked to drink and hang with the women like the rest of us. … But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped.”



“He had a temper and he became a liability,” he recalled. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted. … It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”


http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/03/30/former-co-worker-zimmerman-lost-security-guard-job-after-he-snapped/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29&utm_content=Google+Reader

========

Just the kind of unstalbe asshole that the NRA and its legions of gun fetishists love to get locked and loaded without any background or other checks.

[MannyIsGod]

I had not heard that tape. No fucking way I'm buying thats Zimmerman.

[CosmicCowboy]

I had not heard that tape. No fucking way I'm buying thats Zimmerman.

So what does Zimmerman's voice sound like?

[JoeChalupa]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/01/bill-kristol-trayvon-martin-media-coverage_n_1394815.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

Conservative pundit Bill Kristol on Sunday criticized media coverage of the Trayvon Martin case.

“It was right to raise alarms at first but now it is just demagoguery, I think, mostly on the side of those who want to indict the whole society for this death," Kristol said on Fox News Sunday.

Kristol explained that the real debate should not be about the case itself, but about the justness of Florida's Stand Your Ground law.

"This is the legitimate debate to be had about whether this Florida law contributed to this, whether that's a sensible law, and im not so sure it is. It seems to be there's traditional standard of self defense ... which this law goes further then and sort of makes it if you just feel threatened you can use deadly force. I'm not so sure we want a society in which that is the case," he said.

Stand Your Ground laws, which gives citizens the ability to use deadly force if they feel threatened, have come under fire in the wake of Martin's death. Florida is just one of 21 states with such a law. New York Senator Chuck Schumer last week criticized the laws and said that they should be investigated by the Department of Justice and Congress.

~~I hope this story stays in the news until the end.

[Wild Cobra]

nominal low pass filtering of voice systems that is around 3400 to 3600 hz:lmao

This is pure babble…
And for the record the guy who did the comparison was not contacted by the FBI or police department…Which is how it is done…
Yes... it is for a telephone system. The voice harmonics go higher. However, the more frequency range you use, the more data and that's needed too. That's why there is a low pass filter on telephone systems.

I worked this field. Have you?

[ElNono]

Yes... it is for a telephone system. The voice harmonics go higher. However, the more frequency range you use, the more data and that's needed too. That's why there is a low pass filter on telephone systems.

I worked this field. Have you?

What's the name of your audio forensics software?

[ElNono]

LOL...

No shit.

48% match... wasn't 0%...

I'll bet the software doesn't account for heart rate, adrenaline, sound at a distance through windows, etc. Then what type of phone? Land line, cell phone, etc. this will make a difference on the quality, and screaming has higher pitches than the nominal low pass filtering of voice systems that is around 3400 to 3600 hz.

The scream vs. a voice... Did they ask Zimmerman to scream for them like he was wetting his panties?

Sorry, I don't believe software can do what he tried to do with any reliability. 48% is probably as close of a match as they will get with anyone.

What's the name of your audio forensics software?

[ElNono]

BTW, the software used is available for purchase for $5K if anybody wants to give it a shot...

http://www.easyvoicebiometrics.com

[Wild Cobra]

OMG ElNono...

Do you understand what "too many variables" that "cannot be properly accounted for" means?

Did they confiscate all the phones used, and do a quality check of the audio through the equipment to see bandwidth and envelope delay?

When dealing with normal audio equipment and frequencies under 3600 hz, such technology is pretty reliable. Most audio equipment records the full human hearing range.

Then we go back to the screams under fear, adrenaline, etc. Screams do not match voice patterns, and I'll bet the only audio they have to compare Zimmerman with is his police call.

Believe as you wish. I'll bet in the end, you will find I'm correct here.

[Wild Cobra]

BTW, the software used is available for purchase for $5K if anybody wants to give it a shot...

http://www.easyvoicebiometrics.com

Be my guest. Have at it. Try comparing Martins voice as well. Using Zimmerman's as a baseline, I'll bet Martins voice scores lower.

[ElNono]

OMG ElNono...

Do you understand what "too many variables" that "cannot be properly accounted for" means?

I do. You've yet to establish that's the case.

Please present the audio recordings that were used with the biometrics software.

You never done any audio forensics work, have you?

[ElNono]

Be my guest. Have at it. Try comparing Martins voice as well. Using Zimmerman's as a baseline, I'll bet Martins voice scores lower.

According to the expert (which you are not), at that quality of audio, a match should be around the 90%... whether that voice is Martins is irrelevant. It's certainly not Zimmerman's...

[ElNono]

envelope delay :lmao

No idea how audio forensics work :lmao

[Wild Cobra]

I do. You've yet to establish that's the case.

Please present the audio recordings that were used with the biometrics software.

You never done any audio forensics work, have you?
It's useless without comparing it with Martin's voice too. Flat out useless. It creates undue bias if it's allowed in court. The fact it is now in the public can bias a jury, as I'll bet it will not be allowed in court if this moves forward.

[Wild Cobra]

envelope delay :lmao

No idea how audio forensics work :lmao
It is a measure of the transmitting and receiving equipment and affects the signal. It will change how the DSP's interpret the signal if it's not accounted for.

[Wild Cobra]

According to the expert (which you are not), at that quality of audio, a match should be around the 90%... whether that voice is Martins is irrelevant. It's certainly not Zimmerman's...
I say he's full of shit with the 90%.

How many points do you lose for scream vs. voice?

How many points do you lose over untested systems?

How many points do you lose for normal vs. panic?

[ElNono]

It's useless without comparing it with Martin's voice too.

Why? And it can be compared with Martins if needed. He just didn't have a sample of Martin's voice.

BTW, this is the guy doing the independent test:

Mr. Owen has diligently and comprehensively examined the areas of Forensic Audio, Video, and Voice Identification in great detail since 1981. There are over seventy-five publications, presentations, and recordings available from the Audio Engineering Society, The American College of Forensic Examiners and others.

Mr. Owen has appeared as a Consultant to ABC Nightline, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, FOX 5 NY, NPR Radio, NOVA, Taipei, Chinese Television, Dateline, 60 Minutes, Law & Order, Forensic Files, CSI, CSI Miami, Lie to Me, Access Hollywood, 48 Hours, 20/20 and other Networks and Television Programs.



This isn't a parts changer from his basement...

[ElNono]

I say he's full of shit with the 90%.

What's your experience with audio forensics?

[Wild Cobra]

Why? And it can be compared with Martins if needed. He just didn't have a sample of Martin's voice.

BTW, this is the guy doing the independent test:

Mr. Owen has diligently and comprehensively examined the areas of Forensic Audio, Video, and Voice Identification in great detail since 1981. There are over seventy-five publications, presentations, and recordings available from the Audio Engineering Society, The American College of Forensic Examiners and others.

Mr. Owen has appeared as a Consultant to ABC Nightline, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, FOX 5 NY, NPR Radio, NOVA, Taipei, Chinese Television, Dateline, 60 Minutes, Law & Order, Forensic Files, CSI, CSI Miami, Lie to Me, Access Hollywood, 48 Hours, 20/20 and other Networks and Television Programs.



This isn't a parts changer from his basement...
No shit Sherlock. I read that.

What now, that he has his 15 minutes of fame?

[CosmicCowboy]

Yes... it is for a telephone system. The voice harmonics go higher. However, the more frequency range you use, the more data and that's needed too. That's why there is a low pass filter on telephone systems.

I worked this field. Have you?

Trust me on this one.

Sportcamper KNOWS audio.

Like...professionally.

[ElNono]

It is a measure of the transmitting and receiving equipment and affects the signal. It will change how the DSP's interpret the signal if it's not accounted for.

What DSP would this be? :lol

[Wild Cobra]

Trust me on this one.

Sportcamper KNOWS audio.

Like...professionally.
Like sound systems? Fine. But he obviously doesn't know the fidelity limitations of telephone systems.

[Wild Cobra]

What DSP would this be? :lol
DSP = Digital Signal Processor.

It's a special type of CPU.

More power, and normal computers can do such things, but in this case, the software has to account for variations.

No baselining of the equipment = bad results.

[ElNono]

No shit Sherlock. I read that.

What now, that he has his 15 minutes of fame?

Apparently he already has his fame... what do you think he gets out of this?

Oh, you still haven't told me what's the name of your audio forensics software...

[Wild Cobra]

Apparently he already has his fame... what do you think he gets out of this?

Oh, you still haven't told me what's the name of your audio forensics software...

Are you insane? You keep asking the same stupid question as if you expect an answer.

I gave you my reasons, now stop being so "Chumpish."

[ElNono]

DSP = Digital Signal Processor.

It's a special type of CPU.

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

DSPs haven't been used in telecom in ages. It's all digital VOIP end-to-end now...

The phone itself does the ADC/compression, and the server side does the decompress/DAC...

You're talking 1980/1990's tech (Dialogic, AT&T, etc)... it's gone now...

[ElNono]

Are you insane? You keep asking the same stupid question as if you expect an answer.

I gave you my reasons, now stop being so "Chumpish."

So you don't know shit about audio forensics, but we should take your word over an actual forensic expert because?

Oh, and you pulled the "I worked in this field" card. I expect to see your credentials in the field...

[Wild Cobra]

I wonder how Steven Tyler's talking voice over one cell phone would sound compare to him screaming "Dream On" over another telephonic type of equipment through that software.

Isn't his talking voice too low to scream that high?

[Wild Cobra]

So you don't know shit about audio forensics, but we should take your word over an actual forensic expert because?

Oh, and you pulled the "I worked in this field" card. I expect to see your credentials in the field...
Telephonic communications is the field I worked. Not the forensics. that should be obvious.

Do you always ask and state the obvious?

[ElNono]

I wonder how Steven Tyler's talking voice over one cell phone would sound compare to him screaming "Dream On" over another telephonic type of equipment through that software.

Isn't his talking voice too low to scream that high?

Spend the $5K and find out. As it is, the only thing we know is that you don't know shit about modern communications in general and audio forensics specifically...

[CosmicCowboy]

Like sound systems? Fine. But he obviously doesn't know the fidelity limitations of telephone systems.

Look WC, It's not my right to tell you what SC does for a living but you are making some very wrong assumptions about him. The dude probably knows as much or more than the so called expert in this case.

[ElNono]

Telephonic communications is the field I worked. Not the forensics. that should be obvious.

Do you always ask and state the obvious?

When? Because I suspect you've not kept up for the past 20 or so years...

[Wild Cobra]

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

DSPs haven't been used in telecom in ages. It's all digital VOIP end-to-end now...

The phone itself does the ADC/compression, and the server side does the decompress/DAC...

You're talking 1980/1990's tech (Dialogic, AT&T, etc)... it's gone now...
DSP type processor chips have never been used in my experience. WTF are you talking about?

Again, you are arguing against something I'm not making a case against. ASSuming like always.

The forensics software would use the same software type routines with a CPU that a DSP will have built in functions for. Specialized computers may use DSP's for this work though.

I'm not familiar with telecommunications equipment that uses DSP's. Maybe I worked on them without knowing. What equipment used them?

[Wild Cobra]

When? Because I suspect you've not kept up for the past 20 or so years...
OK, what is the bandwidth used today with telephone systems and cell phones?

[Wild Cobra]

What's taking so long?

Have to look it up?

[Wild Cobra]

Cell Phones: Why You Can't Hear Me Now (http://news.discovery.com/human/cell-phone-frequency-111028.html)