Trayvon Martin - black kid armed with skittles killed in "self-defense" [Archive] - Page 5

Agloco

03-28-2012, 10:46 AM

And I'm narrow minded :lmao

You maintain that violence is the only possible motive for Lee here. That's your broad-based, open-minded assessment of the matter? :lol

Demonstration, my ass. Don't puss out with some stupid suggestion for that. You have the new black panthers say on TV to basically kill him and you say "demonstration" l. Gtfo :lmao

The bed of straw....it's soft. Link on Lees association with the with the Black Panthers? In the end, they're all alike anyway right?

lol all blacks being bloodthristy. You and Fpoon should get a room tbh.

I'm narrow minded? Then what possible reason did he post it? You can't even answer that!

Fact is, neither can you. Yet you maintain to know beyond all doubt that Lees intent was violent. Interesting conundrum no?

RandomGuy

03-28-2012, 10:47 AM

You don't say. Could it have possibly caused Martin to panic and attack Zimmerman? Remember, Martin wasn't on his home turf.

Ironic? Sure. However, that takes nothing away from speculative power that Z's past and current actions provide. Z killed an un-armed teenager and walks free. That's bound to incite some irrational thoughts on the matter. It is what it is.

If that's indeed the correct account, then of course it's a problem.

I've already offered my thoughts on what happened earlier on in this thread. Some of the stories have changed since then however. Especially important was the report about Z's claim of being attacked from behind as he walked back to his truck. He claimed that he had gotten out to check his location. In order for that to have happened, he would have had to get back into his truck first as he was pursuing Martin on foot initially.

One of my posts:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5727787&postcount=248

Indeed. Bits keep coming out which directly contradict earlier accounts. If Martin ran, then the question of whether or not Z actually got back into his truck prior to the eventual altercation is key. As I stated above, an earlier account had Z going back to his truck after verifying his location.

My mind is made up in the following way:

Z killed Martin
Z chased Martin
Z ignored a suggestion from dispatch to halt his advance
Martin was a teenager
Martin was unarmed
Martin was visiting his father
Z walks a free man

Z has become the poster boy for everything that is wrong with this "stand your ground" law. I believe most people are talking exception to Zs actions up to the moment of the confrontation. The fact that it happened at all lies squarely on Zs shoulders and no one elses. Hence the call for some sort of action against him.

I think the ballistics will have to be key. Where the bullet entered, what angle, and at what range.

If Z's claim that he was on the ground with his head getting pounded into the pavement is correct, then that would have different charactoristics than someone standing and shooting.

It is fuzzy. Sadly there are only two people who have first-hand knowledge, and one of them is dead.

Getting out of his truck is not the actions of someone who is being cautious and non-confrontational.

It is obvious that a VERY thorough investigation is warranted, at the very least.

If there isn't enough to immediately arrest him, then calls to arrest him are vigilante-ism itself, IMO.

It's not like he is going anywhere. From his friends account, he is wracked with guilt over it, and will have to live in that particular hellish prison for the rest of his life, even if charges are never brought. To be clear: I am not saying that is sufficient, or justice, merely that he isn't quite as "free" as some make out. He will be targeted in some manner for the rest of his life by people who are baying for blood.

In the end, we must wait for the investigation. Trevon's death was a tragedy. We don't truly know what happened yet.

DisAsTerBot

03-28-2012, 10:47 AM

When a bloodthirsty black person does it, you take notice and look for more.
lol wut?
smh
arent these the same assumptions you are arguing with people over making?

Fpoonsie

03-28-2012, 10:47 AM

You act as if they are somehow unique to this situation.

When a bloodthirsty black person does it, you take notice and look for more.

I take notice of rampant idiocy, and it's been bountiful throughout this whole clusterfuck.

Viva Las Espuelas

03-28-2012, 10:47 AM

You maintain that violence is the only possible motive for Lee here. That's your broad-based, open-minded assessment of the matter? :lol

The bed of straw....it's soft. Link on Lees association with the with the Black Panthers? In the end, they're all alike anyway right?

lol all blacks being bloodthristy. You and Fpoon should get a room tbh.

Fact is, neither can you. Yet you maintain to know beyond all doubt that Lees intent was violent. Interesting conundrum no?

Ha. Bed of straw. You suggested "demonstration"
Demonstration l:loll

"Lol all blacks are bloodthirsty" fuck off with that. No where did I say that or think that. Were all those 80-100 students black? No. I don't know. I really don't care. They're all jackasses just like you for accusing me that "all blacks are bloodthirsty". Again, and you call me narrowminded. Nice try, race baiter

Fpoonsie

03-28-2012, 10:49 AM

baying for blood.

Careful. That's CD's buzzword.

DisAsTerBot

03-28-2012, 10:49 AM

If there isn't enough to immediately arrest him, then calls to arrest him are vigilante-ism itself, IMO.

It's not like he is going anywhere. From his friends account, he is wracked with guilt over it, and will have to live in that particular hellish prison for the rest of his life, even if charges are never brought. To be clear: I am not saying that is sufficient, or justice, merely that he isn't quite as "free" as some make out. He will be targeted in some manner for the rest of his life by people who are baying for blood.

you're afraid of black people!!! - chump

ChumpDumper

03-28-2012, 10:50 AM

lol wut?
smh
arent these the same assumptions you are arguing with people over making?I'm not expecting you to understand. Should've used quotes, but people who aren't stupid get it.

I take notice of rampant idiocy, and it's been bountiful throughout this whole clusterfuck.So now blacks are idiots.

You're really batting 1.000 now.

Winehole23

03-28-2012, 10:50 AM

If there isn't enough to immediately arrest him, then calls to arrest him are vigilante-ism itself, IMO.agree strongly with this

DisAsTerBot

03-28-2012, 10:51 AM

66,550!

ChumpDumper

03-28-2012, 10:51 AM

Careful. That's CD's buzzword.

you're afraid of black people!!! - chumpHe didn't single out blacks.

You guys did.

RandomGuy

03-28-2012, 10:51 AM

All over the interwebs and news outlets, frustrated blacks are damn-near bloodthirsty.

But, yeah, sending out his addy over twitter was simply to allow those same people an outlet to send their "strongly-worded grievances."

There are violent nutballs in just about any segment of the population.

The vast majority of what I see though, has been non-violent. Trayvon's parents have been very clear that they want change and do NOT want any violence. Most people are honoring that wish.

ChumpDumper

03-28-2012, 10:52 AM

Post count smack!

I've got nothing else!

Fpoonsie

03-28-2012, 10:52 AM

lol all blacks being bloodthristy. You and Fpoon should get a room tbh.

I never once made the generalization that "all blacks" were on the attack. I said that the overwhelming majority of Lee's audience was black, and the most irate people (however understandably so) w/ regards to this story appear to be black.

elbamba

03-28-2012, 10:52 AM

The locals may not have enough to get a murder conviction, but the feds might be able to put some kind of civil rights case together against him.

The Martins can also go the wrongful death civil suit route.

The Martins could do this but if Zimmerman can prove that it was self defense, the Florida law specifically provides that in a civil action case, Zimmerman would be entitled to his fees, costs, including attorneys fees, and other damages. I would not take the case with the current information available, unless I wanted media attention.

Agloco

03-28-2012, 10:53 AM

Ha. Bed of straw. You suggested "demonstration"

Demonstration :lol

It's an alternate and plausible explanation of Lees motive and quite relevant as a counter to the argument you made.

How is bringing the desires of the Black Panthers into this discussion relevant? Oh yeah......thats right:

All over the interwebs and news outlets, frustrated blacks are damn-near bloodthirsty.

Preach on gentleman. Preach on.

Fpoonsie

03-28-2012, 10:54 AM

Winehole23

03-28-2012, 10:54 AM

Not newsworthy, Joe. None at all.not until it happens. daydream much?

Agloco

03-28-2012, 10:55 AM

I never once made the generalization that "all blacks" were on the attack. I said that the overwhelming majority of Lee's audience was black, and the most irate people (however understandably so) w/ regards to this story appear to be black.

Yes...I misused "all".......apologies.

:lol frustrated blacks being bloodthirsty.

Viva Las Espuelas

03-28-2012, 10:55 AM

There are violent nutballs in just about any segment of the population.

The vast majority of what I see though, has been non-violent. Trayvon's parents have been very clear that they want change and do NOT want any violence. Most people are honoring that wish.

Would his parents approve of Lee broadcasting Zimmerman's address, albeit the wrong one, on twitter?

They did condemn the new black panther's bounty. You know. Those blood thirsty blacks.

elbamba

03-28-2012, 10:56 AM

I think the ballistics will have to be key. Where the bullet entered, what angle, and at what range.

If Z's claim that he was on the ground with his head getting pounded into the pavement is correct, then that would have different charactoristics than someone standing and shooting.

It is fuzzy. Sadly there are only two people who have first-hand knowledge, and one of them is dead.

Getting out of his truck is not the actions of someone who is being cautious and non-confrontational.

It is obvious that a VERY thorough investigation is warranted, at the very least.

If there isn't enough to immediately arrest him, then calls to arrest him are vigilante-ism itself, IMO.

It's not like he is going anywhere. From his friends account, he is wracked with guilt over it, and will have to live in that particular hellish prison for the rest of his life, even if charges are never brought. To be clear: I am not saying that is sufficient, or justice, merely that he isn't quite as "free" as some make out. He will be targeted in some manner for the rest of his life by people who are baying for blood.

In the end, we must wait for the investigation. Trevon's death was a tragedy. We don't truly know what happened yet.

A very good post. To me, the most important issue at this moment is where Martin was shot. I don't think witnesses will be able to shed enough light to warrant an arrest, unless there is a smoking gun, that is credible, that comes forward.

ChumpDumper

03-28-2012, 10:56 AM

Would his parents approve of Lee broadcasting Zimmerman's address, albeit the wrong one, on twitter?

They did condemn the new black panther's bounty. You know. Those blood thirsty blacks.Are they now responsible for the actions of all bloodthirsty blacks?

RandomGuy

03-28-2012, 10:59 AM

I never once made the generalization that "all blacks" were on the attack. I said that the overwhelming majority of Lee's audience was black, and the most irate people (however understandably so) w/ regards to this story appear to be black.

I can agree with that.

No one can say that our general attitudes and the way we look at young men aren't influenced by the color of their skin.

What you do with that reality, is up to you.

One huge difference, though, is how much you think that treatment is justified, and how you act on that.

(edit: "You" not being specific to Fpoonsie)

Viva Las Espuelas

03-28-2012, 10:59 AM

How is bringing the desires of the Black Panthers into this discussion relevant? Oh yeah......thats right:

Because they out out a bounty on Zimmerman on national television you stubborn mule. Damn are you that dense?????

Agloco

03-28-2012, 11:00 AM

"Lol all blacks are bloodthirsty" fuck off with that. No where did I say that or think that. Were all those 80-100 students black? No. I don't know. I really don't care. They're all jackasses just like you for accusing me that "all blacks are bloodthirsty". Again, and you call me narrowminded. Nice try, race baiter

It was directed at Fpoon. I got lost on the multi quote thingy. Yes.. I misused "all" in the phrase. Fpoon used "frustrated". I apologized to him above as I apologize to you now.

ChumpDumper

03-28-2012, 11:00 AM

Because they out out a bounty on Zimmerman on national television you stubborn mule. Damn are you that dense?????So all blacks are the same?

I'm really trying to understand your train of thought here.

CosmicCowboy

03-28-2012, 11:01 AM

Are they now responsible for the actions of all bloodthirsty blacks?

I'm sure they would be delighted to sell those bloodthirsty blacks some Trayvon t-shirts and hoodies.

ChumpDumper

03-28-2012, 11:01 AM

I'm sure they would be delighted to sell those bloodthirsty blacks some Trayvon t-shirts and hoodies.I'm sure they'd rather have their son alive, douchebag.

Agloco

03-28-2012, 11:02 AM

Because they out out a bounty on Zimmerman on national television you stubborn mule. Damn are you that dense?????

Apparently so. I'm interested in how that speaks to Lees motive though. That was the focus of the initial conversation was it not?

So again, I'm asking you to provide some evidence that Lee intended for the Black Panthers to harm Z or his family.

Viva Las Espuelas

03-28-2012, 11:03 AM

Are they now responsible for the actions of all bloodthirsty blacks?

You don't know how to read or keep up with what's been said so you really aren't worth any time past writing this post to you.

Winehole23

03-28-2012, 11:03 AM

I'm sure they would be delighted to sell those bloodthirsty blacks some Trayvon t-shirts and hoodies.ah, the greedy bereaved.

got anything to back that up, or is that off the top of your head?

DisAsTerBot

03-28-2012, 11:04 AM

only posts worth reading in this thread : RandomGuy's

CosmicCowboy

03-28-2012, 11:04 AM

It was an attempt at humor. Sorry if you didn't get it.

Winehole23

03-28-2012, 11:05 AM

it's possible Trayvon Martin's parents got the copyright not with the intent of financial gain, but to prevent others from abusing their son's memory or getting rich off his passing.

ChumpDumper

03-28-2012, 11:05 AM

You don't know how to read or keep up with what's been said so you really aren't worth any time past writing this post to you.:lol The Wild Cobra "not worth my time to explain the stupid shit I posted" gambit :toast

ah, the greedy bereaved.

got anything to back that up, or is that off the top of your head?He likes ankle biting families whose child has been killed.

Winehole23

03-28-2012, 11:06 AM

It was an attempt at humor. Sorry if you didn't get it.it didn't work. looks more like a hostile inference meant to cast the Martins in a bad light.

Viva Las Espuelas

03-28-2012, 11:07 AM

It was directed at Fpoon. I got lost on the multi quote thingy. Yes.. I misused "all" in the phrase. Fpoon used "frustrated". I apologized to him above as I apologize to you now.

lol all blacks being bloodthristy. You and Fpoon should get a room tbh.

Bullshit it was directed at him. I don't care what he used. I know what you used.

DisAsTerBot

03-28-2012, 11:08 AM

Actually, this should be the first and only post in this thread.
So you guys don't know either.

Nice.

Viva Las Espuelas

03-28-2012, 11:09 AM

So all blacks are the same?

I'm really trying to understand your train of thought here.

So only blacks are mad at Zimmerman????

Hopefully you're not that dense. Oh wait

Winehole23

03-28-2012, 11:09 AM

that poor excuse is all wore out, CC. I might believe you if you were occasionally funny.

coyotes_geek

03-28-2012, 11:09 AM

The Martins could do this but if Zimmerman can prove that it was self defense, the Florida law specifically provides that in a civil action case, Zimmerman would be entitled to his fees, costs, including attorneys fees, and other damages. I would not take the case with the current information available, unless I wanted media attention.

Fair points, but given the publicity around this case I don't see the Martins having a tough time finding someone to take the case. I'm sure they could sell quite a few t-shirts to help fund the effort.

Agloco

03-28-2012, 11:09 AM

only posts worth reading in this thread : RandomGuy's

:lol Actually agree here. I include my own posts as part of the junk. :lol

It's as interesting a discussion as I've had in quite some time though. One gets tired of talking radioactive shielding all day.......

DisAsTerBot

03-28-2012, 11:10 AM

:lol actually agree here. I include my own posts as part of the junk. :lol

+1

Viva Las Espuelas

03-28-2012, 11:10 AM

it's possible Trayvon Martin's parents got the copyright not with the intent of financial gain, but to prevent others from abusing their son's memory or getting rich off his passing.

:lol

I'm sure most grieving parents worry about copyrights when their child is gunned down
smh

CosmicCowboy

03-28-2012, 11:10 AM

JoeChalupa

03-28-2012, 11:11 AM

Zimmerman walks.

Viva Las Espuelas

03-28-2012, 11:12 AM

that poor excuse is all wore out, CC. I might believe you if you were occasionally funny.

Blame agloco for "blood thirsty blacks"

Winehole23

03-28-2012, 11:13 AM

doesn't seem so implausible to me. if you were in their position, wouldn't you do everything possible to protect your loved one from vultures looking to get rich off his misfortune?

CosmicCowboy

03-28-2012, 11:13 AM

that poor excuse is all wore out, CC. I might believe you if you were occasionally funny.

:lmao

like i give a fuck what you think...:lol

Agloco

03-28-2012, 11:13 AM

Bullshit it was directed at him. I don't care what he used. I know what you used.

Like I said, the multi-quote thing messed me up a bit. That sentence was supposed to be broken up.

You and Fpoon should get a room for buying into the notion that Lees only motive was violence.

Seems you're bent on keeping the "I was wronged angle" on your side of the fence as if it moderates your extreme position on the matter. So be it.

Fpoonsie

03-28-2012, 11:13 AM

In this report, Martin's mom claims that any money gained from trademarking his name is going towards some "future project" for any families that may go through something similar to Trayvon's. [shrug]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/28/tagblogsfindlawcom2012-lawandlife-idUS354141915520120328

elbamba

03-28-2012, 11:13 AM

:lol Actually agree here. I include my own posts as part of the junk. :lol

It's as interesting a discussion as I've had in quite some time though. One gets tired of talking radioactive shielding all day.......

I don't see how that is possible.:lol

Winehole23

03-28-2012, 11:14 AM

Blame agloco for "blood thirsty blacks"I can understand why you'd be touchy, but Fpoonsie did use the word.

JoeChalupa

03-28-2012, 11:15 AM

Will there be a movie out soon? I see a Law & Order episode.

Fpoonsie

03-28-2012, 11:16 AM

You and Fpoon should get a room for buying into the notion that Lees only motive was violence.

I conceded cg's point. It was most likely used as a means to harass, not necessarily harm physically.

I only went on to assert how easily things can spiral outta control when emotions are as high as they are around this case, and, likewise, how idiotic Lee was for posting it.

Agloco

03-28-2012, 11:16 AM

Blame agloco for "blood thirsty blacks"

Nope. Sorry VLE. That goes back to your bed-buddy Fpoon.

elbamba

03-28-2012, 11:16 AM

Zimmerman walks.

Based on witness statements alone, I think you are right. Unless the feds find something or there is stronger evidence that has not yet come out he walks.

I am still curious to see more info about the gun shot. This is one area where an expert witness might be able to tell a different tale from Zimmerman. We will have to wait and see.

Agloco

03-28-2012, 11:17 AM

I conceded cg's point. It was most likely used as a means to harass, not necessarily harm physically.

I only went on to assert how easily things can spiral outta control when emotions are as high as they are around this case, and, likewise, how idiotic Lee was for posting it.

Sorry Fpoon. There's so many new posts, I got behind apparently. I'm in full agreement with you here about Lee.

Ok, hop outta that bed then. :lol

Winehole23

03-28-2012, 11:17 AM

Fpoonsie

03-28-2012, 11:18 AM

I can understand why you'd be touchy, but Fpoonsie did use the word.

I alluded to numerous (there's that word again) reactions I've encountered, and while "damn-near bloodthirsty" may be a bit of a hyperbole, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have used Lee's tweet to write Zimmerman a letter.

Viva Las Espuelas

03-28-2012, 11:18 AM

:lol The Wild Cobra "not worth my time to explain the stupid shit I posted" gambit :toast

Nah, I just don't defend myself for stuff I don't say. When you stop, and anyone else, talking out your ass, I'll address anything

CosmicCowboy

03-28-2012, 11:19 AM

diabolical!

possibly gullible too!

Winehole23

03-28-2012, 11:19 AM

:lmao

like i give a fuck what you think...:lolYou hide your takes behind "attempted humor." I doubt anyone is fooled.

Winehole23

03-28-2012, 11:21 AM

I alluded to numerous (there's that word again) reactions I've encountered, and while "damn-near bloodthirsty" may be a bit of a hyperbole, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have used Lee's tweet to write Zimmerman a letter.They?

Agloco

03-28-2012, 11:21 AM

Zimmerman walks.

In the end, this.

/thread

Fpoonsie

03-28-2012, 11:21 AM

diabolical!

I don't really have a reason to doubt her motives. I can only hope she's being earnest and sincere in her efforts.

Winehole23

03-28-2012, 11:22 AM

possibly gullible too!oh, so it wasn't a joke. thanks for clearing that up.

Fpoonsie

03-28-2012, 11:22 AM

They?

Yes, in this instance, you're correct in inferring that the "they" I'M referring to is Lee's audience, mostly black.

CosmicCowboy

03-28-2012, 11:23 AM

oh, so it wasn't a joke. thanks for clearing that up.

Note the "possible". Running a 501(c) can be a nice gig.

Winehole23

03-28-2012, 11:23 AM

Yes, in this instance, you're correct in inferring that the "they" I'M referring to is Lee's audience, mostly black.appreciate the clarification

Agloco

03-28-2012, 11:24 AM

It's as interesting a discussion as I've had in quite some time though. One gets tired of talking radioactive shielding all day.......

I don't see how that is possible.:lol

Probably the finance aspect of it more than anything. Building the physical scale models and finalizing blueprints? :hungry:

Winehole23

03-28-2012, 11:25 AM

Note the "possible". Running a 501(c) can be a nice gig.The Martins say they want whatever money might come of it to prevent similar things from happening again. You disbelieve them?

JoeChalupa

03-28-2012, 11:26 AM

I got CC's attempt at humor.

Winehole23

03-28-2012, 11:27 AM

what was the funny part?

Fabbs

03-28-2012, 01:52 PM

The Martins say they want whatever money might come of it to prevent similar things from happening again. You disbelieve them?
Charities and 501s have never lied.

Winehole23

03-28-2012, 01:56 PM

do you think the Martins are lying? based on what? Is your Spidey-sense tingling?

Gutter92

03-28-2012, 01:56 PM

It's kinda funny, actually, how the same people that are defending Zimmerman saying "we don't have all the facts! you can't just jump to conclusions!!" are the people that are also jumping to conclusions regarding what Trayvon's mother is gonna do with the money...

:lol hypocrites

Creepn

03-28-2012, 02:22 PM

Charities and 501s have never lied.

Didn't you learn a learn a lesson out of this whole fucking ordeal? Stop assuming the worse of people. That is how Trayvon died in the first place.

Unbelievable.

This goes to CC and Viva as well.

Gutter92

03-28-2012, 02:30 PM

CosmicCowboy

03-28-2012, 02:58 PM

Didn't you learn a learn a lesson out of this whole fucking ordeal? Stop assuming the worse of people. That is how Trayvon died in the first place.

Unbelievable.

This goes to CC and Viva as well.

:lmao

Pot meet kettle

Go back and read all the shit talk assumptions YOU have made in this thread.

Gutter92

03-28-2012, 03:04 PM

:lmao

Pot meet kettle

Go back and read all the shit talk assumptions YOU have made in this thread.

It's kinda funny, actually, how the same people that are defending Zimmerman saying "we don't have all the facts! you can't just jump to conclusions!!" are the people that are also jumping to conclusions regarding what Trayvon's mother is gonna do with the money...

:lol hypocrites

CosmicCowboy

03-28-2012, 03:08 PM

It's kinda funny, actually, how the same people that are defending Saint Trayvon were jumping to all sorts of false conclusions about the confrontation between Martin and Zimmerman are the same people that are also jumping to conclusions regarding what Saint Trayvon's mother is gonna do with the money...

:lol hypocrites

redzero

03-28-2012, 03:10 PM

Creepn

03-28-2012, 03:11 PM

:lmao

Pot meet kettle

Go back and read all the shit talk assumptions YOU have made in this thread.

Any type of "negative" views I expressed against him was all brought on by Zimmerman himself. I didn't make stuff up. You are attacking the parents for doing something you have absolutely no evidence of. None whatsoever.

Maybe if they bought a yacht named SS Trayvon a day later and they are sailing the world laughing and smiling while sipping martinis then maybe I could agree with you.

CosmicCowboy

03-28-2012, 03:14 PM

So we agree that neither one of us knows what they REALLY will do when they turn their 15 minutes of fame into bank.

Fair enough.

Creepn

03-28-2012, 03:20 PM

So we agree that neither one of us knows what they REALLY will do when they turn their 15 minutes of fame into bank.

Fair enough.

Of course neither one of us really knows their intentions, but negatively blasting a person with a "shoot first ask questions later " mentality is a human trait that needs to be eradicated.

Goran Dragic

03-28-2012, 03:47 PM

Actually, that would be consistent behavior.
:lmao

Spurminator

03-28-2012, 03:59 PM

My only opinion on any of this is that it sucks.

Wild Cobra

03-28-2012, 04:18 PM

My only opinion on any of this is that it sucks.
I agree with that, but I have another opinion.

Since we really don't know what happened, I found those who already have Zimmerman convicted good liberal lemmings, and those who completely support him rather stupid.

cantthinkofanything

03-28-2012, 04:25 PM

I agree with that, but I have another opinion.

Since we really don't know what happened, I found those who already have Zimmerman convicted good liberal lemmings, and those who completely support him rather stupid.

Problem is even if the facts show that Zimmerman was in the right and Martin instigated the attack, many of those that originally supported Martin won't admit they might have been premature. I would expect to see the goal posts moved.

Creepn

03-28-2012, 04:53 PM

Problem is even if the facts show that Zimmerman was in the right and Martin instigated the attack, many of those that originally supported Martin won't admit they might have been premature. I would expect to see the goal posts moved.

There are no facts in regards to who attacked first.

Fpoonsie

03-28-2012, 04:56 PM

There are no facts in regards to who attacked first.

He didn't say there were.

ChumpDumper

03-28-2012, 04:58 PM

Goran Dragic

03-28-2012, 05:10 PM

And vice-versa.

Are you new to message boards?

Your mom was new to my message board last night!

cantthinkofanything

03-28-2012, 05:11 PM

And vice-versa.

Are you new to message boards?

Sure. Vice-versa. But the initial public support for Martin seemed to heavily outweigh that for Zimmerman. Really, I'm usually pretty neutral but in this case, it seemed like the media made its decision "Martin good, Zimmerman racist" and then everyone else was on for the ride.

ChumpDumper

03-28-2012, 05:14 PM

Sure. Vice-versa. But the initial public support for Martin seemed to heavily outweigh that for Zimmerman. Really, I'm usually pretty neutral but in this case, it seemed like the media made its decision "Martin good, Zimmerman racist" and then everyone else was on for the ride.He's more stupid than racist, but the jury's still out on the latter.

Goran Dragic

03-28-2012, 05:14 PM

Sure. Vice-versa. But the initial public support for Martin seemed to heavily outweigh that for Zimmerman.
Yeah, the public never supports the guy who gets shot over the guy who shoots. I can't believe that happened.

Creepn

03-28-2012, 05:16 PM

The way I STILL see it even after pages of discussions is this:

-Zimmerman saw an unfamiliar guy in the neighborhood
-Zimmerman somehow felt that a guy walking in the rain in a hoodie was suspicious and followed him
- Trayvon spotted him, became alert to a man following him and ran
-Zimmerman got out of his car to pursue him
- Because Treyvon ran, it confirmed his suspicion that Trayvon was up to no good by saying "They always get away"
( Oliver, Zimmerman's black friend, was told the story by his family and told him that he said "GOONS" not "COONS")
- Zimmerman then says, "fucking goons" to dispatcher.

Gap of time elapsed and was somehow reunited

- Trayvon asks " Why are you following me?, Zimmerman responds " What are you doing in my neighborhood" (according to witness)
- scuffle ensues
- John witnessed the middle of the fight where the kid was on top of Zimmerman then went upstairs only to find the kid dead

Creepn

03-28-2012, 05:18 PM

He didn't say there were.

Your're right, I misread.

cantthinkofanything

03-28-2012, 05:22 PM

Yeah, the public never supports the guy who gets shot over the guy who shoots. I can't believe that happened.

We're talking about a specific event. Regardless, in cases of self-defense, the public isn't biased towards the one that got shot. I agree that this is very different than the cases in Texas where someone invades a home but your implication that the public is always against the shooter is not accurate.

cantthinkofanything

03-28-2012, 05:29 PM

He's more stupid than racist, but the jury's still out on the latter.

I agree he seems pretty damn stupid. And maybe I'm wrong about the public's willingness to say they were wrong. But I just can't see the Miami Heat issuing an apology for their hoodie night or whatever that was.

I think what really bugged me was my stepson coming home from school a few days ago with full condemnation for Zimmerman, the Police Force, and the system in general for allowing this murderer to not be placed in jail. Because one of the teacher's decided to dedicate a class to it.

redzero

03-28-2012, 05:33 PM

Jesus Christ! You're responsible for the well-being of ANOTHER child?

jack sommerset

03-28-2012, 05:34 PM

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw a congressman wearing a hoodie on the house floor. This is past ridiculous. God bless.

cantthinkofanything

03-28-2012, 05:35 PM

Jesus Christ! You're responsible for the well-being of ANOTHER child?

And changing your mom's diapers too!

Creepn

03-28-2012, 05:36 PM

I agree he seems pretty damn stupid. And maybe I'm wrong about the public's willingness to say they were wrong. But I just can't see the Miami Heat issuing an apology for their hoodie night or whatever that was.

I think what really bugged me was my stepson coming home from school a few days ago with full condemnation for Zimmerman, the Police Force, and the system in general for allowing this murderer to not be placed in jail. Because one of the teacher's decided to dedicate a class to it.

I'm sure the purpose was to teach kids not to automatically judge people negatively because of their skin or clothes. That is what Zimmerman did and a young life was terminated.

ChumpDumper

03-28-2012, 05:38 PM

I agree he seems pretty damn stupid. And maybe I'm wrong about the public's willingness to say they were wrong. But I just can't see the Miami Heat issuing an apology for their hoodie night or whatever that was.Well, I don't see what they would have to apologize for.

I think what really bugged me was my stepson coming home from school a few days ago with full condemnation for Zimmerman, the Police Force, and the system in general for allowing this murderer to not be placed in jail. Because one of the teacher's decided to dedicate a class to it.He killed a guy. There's probably a reasonable amount of inconvenience he could suffer while they gather more than a few minutes' worth of information.

Goran Dragic

03-28-2012, 05:47 PM

We're talking about a specific event. Regardless, in cases of self-defense, the public isn't biased towards the one that got shot.
And most of the public doesn't think this was self defense, so I'm not sure what you're so surprised by.

Goran Dragic

03-28-2012, 05:48 PM

I think what really bugged me was my stepson coming home from school a few days ago with full condemnation for Zimmerman, the Police Force, and the system in general for allowing this murderer to not be placed in jail. Because one of the teacher's decided to dedicate a class to it.
:lmao

"Listen here boy, you don't pay no attention to dat der n!gger lovin' pu'lic school teacher!"

Creepn

03-28-2012, 05:53 PM

:lmao

"Listen here boy, you don't pay no attention to dat der n!gger lovin' pu'lic school teacher!"

:lol

Koolaid_Man

03-28-2012, 05:54 PM

Just FYI everyone..there's a big difference between KKK and Black Panthers...

The KKK are proactive - seeking to kill innocent people at will...much like the Taliban....whereas the Blacks Panthers and people like Fharrkhan are only reactive..responding to the threat and seeking equality...pretty big fucking difference that people want to conveniently dismiss or re-frame to fit their own personal narrative.

Koolaid_Man

03-28-2012, 05:56 PM

The Black Panthers history is merely one of self defense and for it's people..whereas KKK is one of Racial Purity and Holocastesqe...

Koolaid_Man

03-28-2012, 05:57 PM

just thought I'd drop some science on those that like to listen to the likes of Micheal Savage and Sean Hannity...

Koolaid_Man

03-28-2012, 05:58 PM

those guys are the real problem and a plague upon society in my humble opinion

Koolaid_Man

03-28-2012, 05:59 PM

midnightpulp

03-28-2012, 06:00 PM

they prey on the weak minded...the gulliable southern good ole white folk...namely these people:

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/...elosi-out-inte (http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/bill-maher-sends-alexandra-pelosi-out-inte)

American Hero:

http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/content/2012/0324-george-zimmerman-mugshot.jpg/12103595-1-eng-US/0324-george-zimmerman-mugshot.jpg_full_600.jpg

jack sommerset

03-28-2012, 06:10 PM

The group appears to have borrowed its name from the black power movement of the 1960s and '70s, co-founded by Huey P. Newton and Bobby Seale. But BlackPanther.org, which is maintained by the Huey P. Newton Foundation and dedicated to fostering Newton's memory, posted an alert on its website distancing itself from the group.

"There is no New Black Panther Party," the site says, denouncing the group as exploiting the Black Panther name and heritage and saying they are "trying to incite hatred rather than resolve it."

From an article in the LA times. http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-black-panther-party-20120327,0,7849382.story

God bless

Koolaid_Man

03-28-2012, 06:10 PM

American Hero:

http://www.csmonitor.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/media/content/2012/0324-george-zimmerman-mugshot.jpg/12103595-1-eng-US/0324-george-zimmerman-mugshot.jpg_full_600.jpg

You will hear soon about the American Hero's flamboyant homosexuality with possbily his defender...:lol he's known him 6 yrs...hmmmmm :lol

1IKKqnF0WlE

cantthinkofanything

03-28-2012, 06:17 PM

And most of the public doesn't think this was self defense, so I'm not sure what you're so surprised by.

because if I don't agree with something, I must be suprised by it?

midnightpulp

03-28-2012, 06:25 PM

You will hear soon about the American Hero's flamboyant homosexuality with possbily his defender...:lol he's known him 6 yrs...hmmmmm :lol

1IKKqnF0WlE

Why are you against a man rightfully defending his neighborhood against would be criminals? It's a known fact that Trayvon "the Martyr" Martin dealt drugs, carried around tools which could be used to burgle, and had a swag grill up in his teef, all signifiers of a person entrenched in the "gangsta" lifestyle.

Zimmerman calmly approached the young man and respectfully asked what his business in the neighborhood was. Rather than reply tactfully, Martin chose to respond with violence, probably saying something like, "Wat u think u doin', cracka? Get out my face before I kill yo racis' ass," before throwing the first punch that felled Zimmerman. Now this is where the situation could've ended. Martin could've simply ran away, but instead, he chose to "represent" and proceeded to bash Zimmerman's head into the ground (as per witness testimony and Zimmerman's injuries that are consistent with such an attack). Zimmerman, fearful for his life, justly defended himself with lethal force.

Koolaid_Man

03-28-2012, 06:31 PM

Why are you against a man rightfully defending his neighborhood against would be criminals? It's a known fact that Trayvon "the Martyr" Martin dealt drugs, carried around tools which could be used to burgle, and had a swag grill up in his teef, all signifiers of a person entrenched in the "gangsta" lifestyle.

Zimmerman calmly approached the young man and respectfully asked what his business in the neighborhood was. Rather than reply tactfully, Martin chose to respond with violence, probably saying something like, "Wat u think u doin', cracka? Get out my face before I kill yo racis' ass," before throwing the first punch that felled Zimmerman. Now this is where the situation could've ended. Martin could've simply ran away, but instead, he chose to "represent" and proceeded to bash Zimmerman's head into the ground (as per witness testimony and Zimmerman's injuries that are consistent with such an attack). Zimmerman, fearful for his life, justly defended himself with lethal force.

why post something you don't beleive...:lol trying to waste my time like I did yours...:lmao

cantthinkofanything

03-28-2012, 06:37 PM

Well, I don't see what they would have to apologize for.

He killed a guy. There's probably a reasonable amount of inconvenience he could suffer while they gather more than a few minutes' worth of information.

Apology was a poor choice of words. My point is that I think a lot of people jumped on board the Martin train without knowing or caring what the facts were/are. And now that they've chosen a side (in some cases, very publicly), they will be unwilling to acknowledge their decision could have been misguided.

My problem with the teacher is that they didn't bother to tell the kids that the facts still are not known. This particular teacher has also told these kids that the U.S. bombed the WTC and the government killed JFK. And while I don't have a problem with teaching kids to ask questions. I do have a problem when it's presented as fact.

But back to Martin, until the facts are in, the media needs to hold off on demonizing Zimmerman.

The real focus imo should be on this fucked up law that allows someone to instigate a confrontation, kill someone, and not be held responsible. Whether it's this case or one in the future.

redzero

03-28-2012, 06:46 PM

And now that they've chosen a side (in some cases, very publicly), they will be unwilling to acknowledge their decision could have been misguided.

Obviously. People who strongly hold any belief will be reluctant to give it up when it's challenged. What you stated is true not only for both sides, but it's true in general.

Creepn

03-28-2012, 08:36 PM

Creepn

03-28-2012, 08:52 PM

YouTube video:

Pc0fQhGDxRo

Where's the gash behind his head? Bandages? Doesn't look so fat and portly either...

ChumpDumper

03-28-2012, 08:55 PM

Wow.

DMX7

03-28-2012, 09:21 PM

Looks like he really got fucked up.

hitmanyr2k

03-28-2012, 09:43 PM

YouTube video:

Pc0fQhGDxRo

Where's the gash behind his head? Bandages? Doesn't look so fat and portly either...

Looks like the appropriate amount of damage suffered by someone who probably got hit with a bag of Skittles.

ChumpDumper

03-28-2012, 10:07 PM

you act like a thug you die like oneFunny.

Creepn

03-28-2012, 10:13 PM

Looking forward to what the racist spin doctor Wild Cobra has to say about this video.

DisgruntledLionFan#54,927

03-28-2012, 10:22 PM

New police video shows no blood on Zimmerman whatsoever and where is the broken nose?? Where are the grass stains?? If there was blood on his clothing, why didn't police use gloves when touching his clothes? A broken nose bleeds profusely. In a fight, blood WILL get on your clothes.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/trayvon-martin-case-exclusive-surveillance-video-george-zimmerman/story?id=16022897#.T3O72GEgfKc

How can you tell that there's no blood on his hands, shoes, jacket, etc. from that video?

He sure as shit doesn't like like he's 250 or that he has any cuts on the back of his head.

I doubt that all broken noses bleed, though. But I'm not a doctor.

monosylab1k

03-28-2012, 10:48 PM

DMX7

03-28-2012, 11:00 PM

ploto

03-28-2012, 11:51 PM

I doubt that all broken noses bleed, though. But I'm not a doctor.

The initial police report noted that Zimmerman was bleeding from the back of the head and nose...

Yet no blood on his gray shirt and no noticeable scratches on the back of his shaved head?

DisgruntledLionFan#54,927

03-29-2012, 12:05 AM

Does that jacket have a zipper on it?

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 02:22 AM

There are no facts in regards to who attacked first.
No facts made public yet. There might be some.

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 02:24 AM

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 02:27 AM

I think what really bugged me was my stepson coming home from school a few days ago with full condemnation for Zimmerman, the Police Force, and the system in general for allowing this murderer to not be placed in jail. Because one of the teacher's decided to dedicate a class to it.
File a written complaint with the school. Teachers should not be allowed to teach such things, especially when a foundation of our government is innocent until proven guilty.

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 02:29 AM

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 02:42 AM

How can you tell that there's no blood on his hands, shoes, jacket, etc. from that video?

He sure as shit doesn't like like he's 250 or that he has any cuts on the back of his head.

I doubt that all broken noses bleed, though. But I'm not a doctor.
I don't think that's Zimmerman...

Nbadan

03-29-2012, 02:54 AM

I hate to take up for Zimmerman, but it's been made pretty clear that he received medical attention BEFORE being taken to the police station. I don't know about the broken nose part but I'm sure he got cleaned/stitched up some prior to this video.

If he did have a broken nose he would have been taken to the hospital...same with stitches...

Nbadan

03-29-2012, 02:55 AM

Does that jacket have a zipper on it?

....members only..

Goran Dragic

03-29-2012, 04:01 AM

:lmao all the idiots who told me there's no way the cops would lie to protect the murderer of a black kid

Jacob1983

03-29-2012, 04:05 AM

It's not what ya know. It's what ya can prove.

My nigga.

http://media.avclub.com/images/articles/article/38643/training-day_scenic_jpg_627x325_crop_upscale_q85.jpg

TheSkeptic

03-29-2012, 04:09 AM

:lmao all the idiots who told me there's no way the cops would lie to protect the murderer of a black kid

Good stuff in this thread.

Although I read somewhere that the lead investigator did want to charge Zimmerman but was stopped by a higher up.

If the Feds decide to take over the department that sounds like about the only cop involved that deserves to keep his job imo.

Whatever happens to this case an investigation needs to be done and the parents need to sue Zimmerman, the department, and the cops involved in the cover-up for every penny they're collectively worth.

Does that even happen like it does with failed banks where the Feds step in and run things?

TheSkeptic

03-29-2012, 04:11 AM

It's not what ya know. It's what ya can prove.

That's true. Between the 911 recordings and this video, however, I think there should be enough for the police to at least approach a judge or whoever to get the case considered for trial.

ChumpDumper

03-29-2012, 04:26 AM

I don't think that's Zimmerman...:lol

Based on what?

Creepn

03-29-2012, 04:40 AM

I don't think that's Zimmerman...

I think that is as close as a concession that we'll ever get.

Goran Dragic

03-29-2012, 04:58 AM

I think that is as close as a concession that we'll ever get.
:lol

Winehole23

03-29-2012, 07:22 AM

I hate to take up for Zimmerman, but it's been made pretty clear that he received medical attention BEFORE being taken to the police station. I don't know about the broken nose part but I'm sure he got cleaned/stitched up some prior to this video.

The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin (http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-shooter-teenager-gun/story?id=16000239) recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman (http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-attorney-friend-speak-trayvon-martin-incident/story?id=15999256) be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.

But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.

Police brought Zimmerman into the station for questioning for a few hours on the night of the shooting, said Zimmerman's attorney, despite his request for medical attention first. Ultimately they had to accept Zimmerman's claim of self defense. He was never charged with a crime.

Serino filed an affidavit on Feb. 26, the night that Martin was shot and killed by Zimmerman, that stated he was unconvinced Zimmerman's version of events.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-investigator-wanted-charge-george-zimmerman-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T3RTndW2-7R

DarrinS

03-29-2012, 07:48 AM

YouTube video:

Pc0fQhGDxRo

Where's the gash behind his head? Bandages? Doesn't look so fat and portly either...

Fail

Besides the ABC news logo blocking his head most of the time, it looks to me like he's got a bump on his head. That's probably what the cop is looking at. Scalp wounds bleed a lot, but are also easy to clean up. You will usually get black eyes from a broken nose THE NEXT DAY.

jack sommerset

03-29-2012, 07:49 AM

I pray this horrific act brings attention to a much bigger problem our country has. Black on black crime. All my black brothers and sisters that don't have a voice anymore need to be heard. In the U.S. nearly half of all murder victims are black. And the staggering majority of those black people are killed by other black people. Let us all pray they get a march. God bless.

Winehole23

03-29-2012, 07:58 AM

Besides the ABC news logo blocking his head most of the time, it looks to me like he's got a bump on his head. That's probably what the cop is looking at. Scalp wounds bleed a lot, but are also easy to clean up. You will usually get black eyes from a broken nose THE NEXT DAY.Vid isn't conclusive either way. If the case goes to trial, the severity/extent of Zimmerman's injuries will be a matter of public record; if not, the wheel spinning will continue.

DarrinS

03-29-2012, 07:59 AM

Vid isn't conclusive either way. If the case goes to trial, the severity/extent of Zimmerman's injuries will be a matter of public record; if not, the wheel spinning will continue.

Why does the cop stare at the back of his head?

elbamba

03-29-2012, 08:00 AM

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-investigator-wanted-charge-george-zimmerman-manslaughter/story?id=16011674#.T3RTndW2-7R

ABC News reported a police source quoted Zimmerman as saying the youth had tried to get his gun.

Zimmerman received medical attention at the scene and then was taken in a police cruiser to a police station for questioning.

Authorities told the newspaper much of Zimmerman's account has been corroborated by witnesses.

Zimmerman, who is white, had told a 911 dispatcher he was following the black teen because he looked suspicious. "We don't need you to do that," the dispatcher said.

ABC News said Martin's girlfriend said in a recording it obtained that she heard him ask Zimmerman, "'Why are your following me,' and then the man asked, 'What are you doing around here?'" She said she heard the two scuffle before the line went dead.

Read more: http://www.kentuckynewsnetwork.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=104668?feed=104668&article=9953875#ixzz1qVhXoeiV

Winehole23

03-29-2012, 08:06 AM

also true. looks like neither the FD nor the PD thought Zimmerman's injuries required anything more than first aid.

Winehole23

03-29-2012, 08:07 AM

Why does the cop stare at the back of his head?are you a mind reader?

elbamba

03-29-2012, 08:08 AM

also true. looks like neither the FD nor the PD thought Zimmerman's injuries required anything more than first aid.

No time to do the search but I believe that I read that Zimmerman rejected going to the hospital.

I can say that this does not bode well for Zimmerman. However, until the eye-witness is refuted or discredited, I still think that is the stronger evidence.

Winehole23

03-29-2012, 08:12 AM

No time to do the search but I believe that I read that Zimmerman rejected going to the hospital.his lawyer says different in the ABC article I posted at #1171, but of course that doesn't rule out that Zimmerman rejected hospitalization at some point, then later reconsidered.

DarrinS

03-29-2012, 08:21 AM

Winehole23

03-29-2012, 08:32 AM

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5716255&postcount=101

Creepn

03-29-2012, 10:58 AM

No time to do the search but I believe that I read that Zimmerman rejected going to the hospital.

I can say that this does not bode well for Zimmerman. However, until the eye-witness is refuted or discredited, I still think that is the stronger evidence.

Team Zimmerman says that Trayvon beat him so badly breaking his nose and slamming his head on the concrete that he HAD to use deadly force but didn't need to go to the hospital? Whatever.

cantthinkofanything

03-29-2012, 11:04 AM

Team Zimmerman says that Trayvon beat him so badly breaking his nose and slamming his head on the concrete that he HAD to use deadly force but didn't need to go to the hospital? Whatever.

I'm not taking sides with Martin or Zimmerman yet. But if someone is slamming your head into the ground, you want to use deadly force before you get to the point of having to go to the hospital.

DarrinS

03-29-2012, 11:14 AM

DarrinS

03-29-2012, 11:17 AM

http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Zimmerman-ABC-video-enhanced-caption.jpg

CosmicCowboy

03-29-2012, 11:19 AM

IF we has getting his head bashed into the curb, could it not be straight-up self-defense?

We have a winner...or at least enough doubt created that the Prosecutor thought they couldn't get a conviction.

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 11:24 AM

We have a winner...or at least enough doubt created that the Prosecutor thought they couldn't get a conviction.
Yep... Unless we have a "You can't handle the truth" moment and Zimmereman confesses, there is no way he can be prosecuted with the evidence made public.

Fpoonsie

03-29-2012, 11:24 AM

I'm not taking sides with Martin or Zimmerman yet. But if someone is slamming your head into the ground, you want to use deadly force before you get to the point of having to go to the hospital.

Winehole23

03-29-2012, 11:27 AM

Yep... Unless we have a "You can't handle the truth" moment and Zimmereman confesses, there is no way he can be prosecuted with the evidence made public.That's for the grand jury to decide now.

hater

03-29-2012, 11:27 AM

where was the gun when the assault was taking place? in his pocket? holster? hand?

Depending on that we'll know how easy it would have been for him to reach to it, take it out and shoot it while he was getting his nose broken and head bashed in

IMO he couldn't have reached for the gun, pointed it and shot it while under a brutal attack as described. Either it was a minor scuffle or he shot him when the victim stopped the attack momentarily if so

Z's story is a bit sketchy, I see the prosecution building a case regardless

cantthinkofanything

03-29-2012, 11:30 AM

We have a winner...or at least enough doubt created that the Prosecutor thought they couldn't get a conviction.

At this point, I'm not sure many people are disputing that it's going to be hard to convict Zimmerman if indeed Martin was on top of him and bashing his head into the ground. It seems pretty cut and dry at that point.

I think the problem is with a law that allows you to follow someone and aggravate them enough for them to feel threatened to the point of attacking the follower and giving the follower the ability to shoot the guy he was following. Maybe the facts will show a different scenario but I think the real issue is with the law as it is.

CosmicCowboy

03-29-2012, 11:34 AM

That's for the grand jury to decide now.

Is there going to be a grand jury? Usually the prosecutor requests one if they think they have a reasonable chance of conviction. I hadn't heard that they are going to convene one...of course with all the publicity they may ask for one anyway just to try to put the story to rest.

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 11:38 AM

That's for the grand jury to decide now.
Yes, and they will see evidence that we haven't yet.

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 11:40 AM

where was the gun when the assault was taking place? in his pocket? holster? hand?
The weapon is a palm size pistol. It could have fit in his jeans pocket, inside coat pocket, etc. Just about anywhere.

Creepn

03-29-2012, 11:40 AM

I'm not taking sides with Martin or Zimmerman yet. But if someone is slamming your head into the ground, you want to use deadly force before you get to the point of having to go to the hospital.

Please, I seen worse beatdowns in a regular street fight and none of them pulled a gun.The fact of the matter is that judge boy Zimmerman knew the law and intended to use a gun in a good ol beatdown. It was basically a death trap for the kid.

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 11:41 AM

Is there going to be a grand jury? Usually the prosecutor requests one if they think they have a reasonable chance of conviction. I hadn't heard that they are going to convene one...of course with all the publicity they may ask for one anyway just to try to put the story to rest.
I thought I read someplace there is one, or will be one. Not 100% certain however.

CosmicCowboy

03-29-2012, 11:41 AM

Please, I seen worse beatdowns in a regular street fight and none of them pulled a gun.The fact of the matter is that judge boy Zimmerman knew the law and intended to use a gun in a good ol beatdown. It was basically a death trap for the kid.

:lmao

and you know this how?

hater

03-29-2012, 11:42 AM

how does someone with no training pull a small gun out of their pocket while getting their head brutally bashed in?

Creepn

03-29-2012, 11:42 AM

IF we has getting his head bashed into the curb, could it not be straight-up self-defense?

No. A victim can overpower the aggressor.

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 11:42 AM

Fpoonsie

03-29-2012, 11:43 AM

Creepn

03-29-2012, 11:45 AM

:lmao

and you know this how?

Let's see, Daddy is a judge + Zimmerman wanna be toy cop = Daddy Judge explaining the workarounds. Not hard to believe in the slightest.

ChumpDumper

03-29-2012, 11:45 AM

We have a winner...or at least enough doubt created that the Prosecutor thought they couldn't get a conviction.The police made that decision.

DarrinS

03-29-2012, 11:47 AM

No. A victim can overpower the aggressor.

I haven't seen any evidence that suggests this was the case, but I'll let a jury decide.

CosmicCowboy

03-29-2012, 11:47 AM

Special prosecutor: I may need no grand jury in Trayvon Martin case
5:30 p.m. EST, March 28, 2012|
By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel

The special prosecutor in the Trayvon Martin case said she hopes to make a decision without a grand jury about whether to arrest the man who killed the unarmed black 17-year-old in Sanford, according to a Florida newspaper.

Angela Corey, the state attorney in Duval, Clay and Nassau counties, took over the case Thursday when Gov. Rick Scott named her special prosecutor following growing protests and complaints by civil rights leaders that local authorities had botched the investigation.

"I always lean towards moving forward without needing the grand jury in a case like this," the Miami Herald quoted her as saying. "I foresee us being able to make a decision and move on it on our own."

Efforts by the Orlando Sentinel to reach her Wednesday were not successful. A spokeswoman in her office would not confirm the quote and said Corey was concentrating on the investigation and would be unavailable indefinitely.

When asked Monday by the Sentinel if she planned to take the case to a grand jury, Corey said, "We don't know."

A Seminole County grand jury had been scheduled to hear the case April 10.

Trayvon was walking through a gated community Feb. 26 when a Neighborhood Watch volunteer, 28-year-old George Zimmerman, began following him and called a police dispatcher, describing Trayvon as suspicious.

A few minutes later the two got into a fight that several neighbors reported hearing, and Zimmerman shot the Miami Gardens 17-year-old once in the chest.

Sanford police say he told them he acted in self-defense, saying he had stopped following the teenager and was on his way back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the rear. They exchanged words, the teenager punched him in the nose, causing Zimmerman to hit the ground, then began hammering his head into a sidewalk.

Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and back of his head when police arrived, according to an incident report.

Trayvon's family has demanded Zimmerman's arrest, and their campaign has been joined by national civil rights leaders, including the Rev. Jesse Jackson, as well as members of Congress. Thousands of supporters have turned out at rallies across the country.

Winehole23

03-29-2012, 11:47 AM

grand jury will convene April 10 regarding the federal investigation into the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin.
http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/246...on-Martin-case (http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/246003/19/Grand-jury-to-review-Trayvon-Martin-case)

CosmicCowboy

03-29-2012, 11:47 AM

The police made that decision.

nope. The prosecutor made that decision

ChumpDumper

03-29-2012, 11:48 AM

Maybe, but can you prove it, or is it just your opinion?:lol You said it wasn't Zimmerman in the video.

Creepn

03-29-2012, 11:48 AM

He's got off clean on charges that he shouldv'e served time in the pen for. You mean to tell me that Zimmerman has no connections up there? Pleeeeease. Pleeeease.

Creepn

03-29-2012, 11:49 AM

I haven't seen any evidence that suggests this was the case, but I'll let a jury decide.

Is there going to be a jury?

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 11:49 AM

Must not be anything to try him on. If Corey's wanting to do the case, and hasn't found cause yet, then it looks like Zimmerman walks... until someone attacks him looking for that $10k bounty on his head.

boutons_deux

03-29-2012, 11:50 AM

Z started it, M defensively his Stood His Ground/head bashing/slugging, but Z finished it.

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 11:50 AM

Is there going to be a jury?
I think it's safe to say at this point, that if their is no jury, that the prosecutor had nothing to convict on.

hater

03-29-2012, 11:50 AM

I mean when you are getting your head brutally beat, especially back of the head, you most likely are barely controllin the nausea and the world spinning around you.

The story does not add up at all

ChumpDumper

03-29-2012, 11:51 AM

nope. The prosecutor made that decision
Police Chief Bill Lee said there was not enough evidence to arrest George Zimmerman, who followed Martin in his SUV and ended up confronting the teen before shots were fired.

“In this case Mr. Zimmerman has made the statement of self-defense,” Lee said. “Until we can establish probable cause to dispute that, we don’t have the grounds to arrest him.”

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/12/2690445/sanford-chief-no-charges-yet-in.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy

Then it was turned over to the state's attorney.

DarrinS

03-29-2012, 11:53 AM

hater

03-29-2012, 11:55 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epinephrine

I fail to see how that helps in this situation

CavsSuperFan

03-29-2012, 11:55 AM

The photos of Zimmerman on the web today, he is getting out of the police car hand cuffed, where are the injuries, the broken nose, there is no blood?

Just sayin...

CosmicCowboy

03-29-2012, 11:56 AM

Police Chief Bill Lee said there was not enough evidence to arrest George Zimmerman, who followed Martin in his SUV and ended up confronting the teen before shots were fired.

“In this case Mr. Zimmerman has made the statement of self-defense,” Lee said. “Until we can establish probable cause to dispute that, we don’t have the grounds to arrest him.”

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/12/2690445/sanford-chief-no-charges-yet-in.html#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy

Then it was turned over to the state's attorney.

This has already been posted in here...

The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.

But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney's office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn't enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.

Creepn

03-29-2012, 11:56 AM

So looking at the video, you guys think he sustained enough "injury" to kill a teen?

CosmicCowboy

03-29-2012, 11:59 AM

I mean when you are getting your head brutally beat, especially back of the head, you most likely are barely controllin the nausea and the world spinning around you.

The story does not add up at all

It doesn't take training or a lot of coordination to reach into your pocket and grab the gun and push it against his chest and pull the trigger. I suspect the forensic pathologist found powder burns on the entry wound.

coyotes_geek

03-29-2012, 11:59 AM

So looking at the video, you guys think he sustained enough "injury" to kill a teen?

It's irrelevant. There's never been a legal requirement for someone to sustain injuries before being able to claim self defense.

Fpoonsie

03-29-2012, 11:59 AM

So looking at the video, you guys think he sustained enough "injury" to kill a teen?

How much time had elapsed between the "beating" and the time of this police video?

Moreso curious than trying to make some kinda proof-lacking point.

CosmicCowboy

03-29-2012, 12:00 PM

So looking at the video, you guys think he sustained enough "injury" to kill a teen?

Yep.

You take that risk when you attack someone and are on top of them pounding their head into the concrete.

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 12:00 PM

I fail to see how that helps in this situation
Really?

And here I thought you were a somewhat smart troll.

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 12:03 PM

So looking at the video, you guys think he sustained enough "injury" to kill a teen?
Hard to tell with 480i video played back on a compressed 360 signal. There was a definite feature on the back of Zimmerman's head, if that was him.

Have a freeze frame of the original tape by chance? What about photo's? Surely the police took some.

Creepn

03-29-2012, 12:05 PM

It doesn't take training or a lot of coordination to reach into your pocket and grab the gun and push it against his chest and pull the trigger. I suspect the forensic pathologist found powder burns on the entry wound.

Where's the kid's blood then? I never been in a situation of seeing someone shot (thank God) but wouldn't blood be spewed on you when you shoot a guy at such close proximity?

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 12:05 PM

It doesn't take training or a lot of coordination to reach into your pocket and grab the gun and push it against his chest and pull the trigger. I suspect the forensic pathologist found powder burns on the entry wound.
I recall seeing something on the news, that they have confirmed that Martin was shot at "very close range."

Creepn

03-29-2012, 12:07 PM

Hard to tell with 480i video played back on a compressed 360 signal. There was a definite feature on the back of Zimmerman's head, if that was him.

Have a freeze frame of the original tape by chance? What about photo's? Surely the police took some.

Gotdamn it pissed me off so much how the police either botched this or sabotaged this. WHY in the hell wouldn't they take pictures of Zimmerman's injuries so it can be proven without a doubt that he was in fear for his life?

hater

03-29-2012, 12:07 PM

It doesn't take training or a lot of coordination to reach into your pocket and grab the gun and push it against his chest and pull the trigger. I suspect the forensic pathologist found powder burns on the entry wound.

I agree under normal circunstances. But having a broken nose and getting your head bashed in the pavement are not normal circunstances.

Either Z is a ninja/marine or a damn liar

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 12:10 PM

Where's the kid's blood then? I never been in a situation of seeing someone shot (thank God) but wouldn't blood be spewed on you when you shoot a guy at such close proximity?
Depends on where he was shot. Blood wasn't necessarily pumping out, and the hoodie and clothes under that, probably keep all splattering to a minimum.

Maybe you should ask Dexter.

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 12:11 PM

Gotdamn it pissed me off so much how the police either botched this or sabotaged this. WHY in the hell wouldn't they take pictures of Zimmerman's injuries so it can be proven without a doubt that he was in fear for his life?
I'll put my money on them taking pictures, but haven't released any to the public.

Winehole23

03-29-2012, 12:12 PM

WHY in the hell wouldn't they take pictures of Zimmerman's injuries so it can be proven without a doubt that he was in fear for his life?what makes you sure the Sanford PD didn't? if they did, it would be very improper to publicize them.

Creepn

03-29-2012, 12:15 PM

what makes you sure the Sanford PD didn't? if they did, it would be very improper to publicize them.

With the shitty job they've done overall, that's how I came to that conclusion.

Creepn

03-29-2012, 12:23 PM

It's irrelevant. There's never been a legal requirement for someone to sustain injuries before being able to claim self defense.

It's irrelevant? It's very relevant because their law states that if you feel you are on the verge of death or suffered "GREAT bodily harm" (actual text), that you can use deadly force.

Looking at that video, I just don't see that "GREAT bodily harm". Plus he didn't even need to go to the hospital.

Fabbs

03-29-2012, 12:25 PM

It seems pretty cut and dry at that point.Are you speaking of Zs head? :lol

Creepn

03-29-2012, 12:28 PM

How much time had elapsed between the "beating" and the time of this police video?

Moreso curious than trying to make some kinda proof-lacking point.

Doesn't matter. Great bodily harm injuries lasts for days.

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 12:29 PM

With the shitty job they've done overall, that's how I came to that conclusion.
I see... The 'all knowing' Creepn has spoken... It must be so...

Isn't it possible that they did a good job, but the press, who often makes up a story, will say anything for a hot story?

Were you there? How do you know they didn't do everything by the book?

Please, enlighten us, oh mighty one.

GSH

03-29-2012, 12:30 PM

Who was the asshole on here yesterday, saying that any time the FBI investigates, the person must be guilty? I guess we're gonna need a few ropes for these guys? If they weren't already in custody, maybe we could put up some "Wanted Dead Or Alive" posters?

http://whns.images.worldnow.com/images/17284891_BG1.jpg
SENECA, SC - Seneca police said they arrested six men Wednesday in connection with the beating of a North Carolina man at Applebee's earlier in March.

Police said their investigation determined that the victim was beat by the group of men and the incident may have been racially motivated. The department said they forwarded the case to the FBI to determine if it should be pursued further as a hate crime under federal law.

The difference between me and most of you wingnuts is that I think even these guys deserve a trial, and are innocent until proven guilty. Only racist nazis want to string someone up before they have the facts.

Fabbs

03-29-2012, 12:31 PM

Did anyone here see the 60 Minutes ep on eyewitness testimony and how unreliable it is?

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 12:32 PM

CosmicCowboy

03-29-2012, 12:33 PM

Doesn't matter. Great bodily harm injuries lasts for days.

This has got to be one of the dumbest lines of argument I have ever seen in here.

Nowhere in the statute does it say that the victim has to wait until he is seeing the white light and baby jesus holding out his hand before he can defend himself.

ChumpDumper

03-29-2012, 12:33 PM

The difference between me and most of you wingnuts is that I think even these guys deserve a trial, and are innocent until proven guilty. Only racist nazis want to string someone up before they have the facts.Who here said to punish him without a trial?

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 12:33 PM

Did anyone here see the 60 Minutes ep on eyewitness testimony and how unreliable it is?
You mean how unreliable it can be?

Fpoonsie

03-29-2012, 12:33 PM

This has got to be one of the dumbest lines of argument I have ever seen in here.

Nowhere in the statute does it say that the victim has to wait until he is seeing the white light and baby jesus holding out his hand before he can defend themselves.

:lol

GSH

03-29-2012, 12:34 PM

Doesn't matter. Great bodily harm injuries lasts for days.

I'm sure you're not interested in the fact that the video really does appear to show a gash on Zimmerman's head? Or the part where an officer checks out the back of his head for a few seconds? Why let facts get in the way of a good lynchin'?

http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Zimmerman-ABC-video-enhanced-caption.jpg

I wonder why ABC didn't point either of those things out? I guess you'll just have to find another reason to hate, rather than putting down the rope for now.

elbamba

03-29-2012, 12:35 PM

That's for the grand jury to decide now.

Correct. In the end, they will have all the evidence that would be used at trial. They can decide whether charges can and should be brought.

The problem is that nothing is quick enough in our society. We want to jump right in and draw conclusions based on emotion.

At this stage, I am going to presume that the evidence that people want leaked has been leaked. I have shared my conclusions or at least, the argument I would make if I were Zimmerman. I have no clue what the grand jury will do.

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 12:35 PM

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 12:37 PM

I wonder why ABC didn't point either of those things out? I guess you'll just have to find another reason to hate, rather than putting down the rope for now.
If news agencies stuck to the truth, they wouldn't profit so much on the stories.

elbamba

03-29-2012, 12:37 PM

Where's the kid's blood then? I never been in a situation of seeing someone shot (thank God) but wouldn't blood be spewed on you when you shoot a guy at such close proximity?

That would be for an expert to determine. From your statement, you do not know and are speculating, which would be inadmissible.

ChumpDumper

03-29-2012, 12:38 PM

Why does ABC need to speculate like you do? It's not like they blurred it out.

Creepn

03-29-2012, 12:39 PM

I'm sure you're not interested in the fact that the video really does appear to show a gash on Zimmerman's head? Or the part where an officer checks out the back of his head for a few seconds? Why let facts get in the way of a good lynchin'?

http://dailycaller.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Zimmerman-ABC-video-enhanced-caption.jpg

I wonder why ABC didn't point either of those things out? I guess you'll just have to find another reason to hate, rather than putting down the rope for now.

IF that is a gash, that is enough to shoot dead a teen in a confrontation that he started?

coyotes_geek

03-29-2012, 12:40 PM

It's irrelevant? It's very relevant because their law states that if you feel you are on the verge of death or suffered "GREAT bodily harm" (actual text), that you can use deadly force.

Looking at that video, I just don't see that "GREAT bodily harm". Plus he didn't even need to go to the hospital.

Zimmerman: "I thought my life was in danger."

Now the video is irrelevant.

elbamba

03-29-2012, 12:42 PM

With the shitty job they've done overall, that's how I came to that conclusion.

How do you know they have done a bad job?

Did you know that during investigations, police departments routinely keep the files closed to the public. Usually records are turned over at the close of an investigation.

Have you already concluded that Zimmerman should have been arrested and convicted?

If so, based on what Florida law/ evidence?

CosmicCowboy

03-29-2012, 12:42 PM

IF that is a gash, that is enough to shoot dead a teen in a confrontation that he started?

Is this a hypothetical question with the premise that Zimmerman struck the first blow? I have seen no evidence of that and I'm pretty confident you haven't either.

Creepn

03-29-2012, 12:43 PM

Creepn

03-29-2012, 12:44 PM

Is this a hypothetical question with the premise that Zimmerman struck the first blow? I have seen no evidence of that and I'm pretty confident you haven't either.

No, it's a fact that he started the WHOLE thing. Since the beginning.

elbamba

03-29-2012, 12:44 PM

Doesn't matter. Great bodily harm injuries lasts for days.

How do you know? What if most of the damage was internal? Would you be able to see it thirty minutes after the incident?

Fpoonsie

03-29-2012, 12:45 PM

It says GREAT bodily harm. GREAT bodily harm is WAY WAY WAY more than a gash on the head.

Are you using your extensive street brawl knowledge to make such a claim?

Creepn

03-29-2012, 12:46 PM

How do you know? What if most of the damage was internal? Would you be able to see it thirty minutes after the incident?

Then he would've went to the hospital. He was cleared on the spot.

Wild Cobra

03-29-2012, 12:46 PM

It says GREAT bodily harm. GREAT bodily harm is WAY WAY WAY more than a gash on the head.
It doesn't matter.

Just how far does the victim have to be beat, if he thinks it's going to get worse, before he takes drastic measures?

Are you saying he has to wait until St. Peter says it's OK?

CosmicCowboy

03-29-2012, 12:49 PM

Here's what the statute actually says dumbass...

Fla. Stat. § 776.012. Use of force in defense of person

A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony

It says PREVENT great bodily harm, not that he has to SUSTAIN great bodily harm.

When Martin was pounding his head on the concrete there was a clear and indisputable possibility of great bodily harm.

elbamba

03-29-2012, 12:49 PM

Then he would've went to the hospital. He was cleared on the spot.

Are you sure he was cleared? I read that he rejected further medical attention.

But to your other point. Can you tell me how Florida defines "Great Bodily Harm". You have alleged that his injuries do not meet this prerequisite for self-defense. Please support with a definition within the Florida Statutes or Florida Caselaw.

Creepn

03-29-2012, 12:50 PM

Are you using your extensive street brawl knowledge to make such a claim?

I have seen way worse injuries in a street fight and a gun was neither pulled nor the guy that inflicted the damage go to jail for attempted murder.

CosmicCowboy

03-29-2012, 12:56 PM

No, it's a fact that he started the WHOLE thing. Since the beginning.

Damn you are an idiot.

Even assuming Zimmerman verbally confronted Martin Zimmerman could have talked all the shit he wanted and it's not an assault. Zimmerman may be an asshole but if he didn't throw the first punch it's not an assault.

Martin punching Zimmerman in the nose, however WAS an assault.

Pounding Zimmermans head into the concrete was a clear threat of great bodily harm.

Zimmerman may be a total asshole but under the Florida law he seems to be well within his right to cap Martin.

cantthinkofanything

03-29-2012, 01:00 PM

I have seen way worse injuries in a street fight and a gun was neither pulled nor the guy that inflicted the damage go to jail for attempted murder.

So if someone is sitting on you bashing your head in the ground, you're supposed to wait until you know you're incurring life threatening damage?

And remember, at this point, Zimmerman thought Martin might use the Skittles on him.

Fabbs

03-29-2012, 01:07 PM

You mean how unreliable it can be?
Can be yes. Did not mean to imply it always is.
However the show did an excellent job of showing how it more often then not is unreliable. Gave some stunning examples. In a very nice twist, the gal who put away a guy for years (and yes he is black) was just absolutely positive she had i.d.'d him correctly as her rapist. Years later forensics proved him innocent and the real perp was caught. Now black guy and she go around the country advocating against eyewitness testimony (well, advocating against it being used to lock up innocent people). The show might be watchable on CBSs archives. Im not sure about that but if you see it i predict you will really enjoy it. Very well done.

Creepn

03-29-2012, 01:20 PM

So if someone is sitting on you bashing your head in the ground, you're supposed to wait until you know you're incurring life threatening damage?

And remember, at this point, Zimmerman thought Martin might use the Skittles on him.

Martin was the one facing imminent threat when Zimmerman had a gun.

Creepn

03-29-2012, 01:21 PM

Damn you are an idiot.

Even assuming Zimmerman verbally confronted Martin Zimmerman could have talked all the shit he wanted and it's not an assault. Zimmerman may be an asshole but if he didn't throw the first punch it's not an assault.

Martin punching Zimmerman in the nose, however WAS an assault.

Pounding Zimmermans head into the concrete was a clear threat of great bodily harm.

Zimmerman may be a total asshole but under the Florida law he seems to be well within his right to cap Martin.

Punching somebody in the nose if somebody else assaulted you first is not assault. We need to move on from this "who started the first physical attack" phase because we just don't know.

No one even knows if his head was even "pounded" on the pavement and Team Zimmerman already lied in this case.