Official San Antonio Spurs 2021 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

[Dejounte]

Who broke the Pelicans / Grizzlies rumor before the trade actually happened? We need to follow that guy closely…

[Degoat]

Not that it matters, guys follow each other all the time on IG but Kai Jones follows DJ, Devin Vassell, and demar

[mo7888]

This is a real possibility. I think Sengun might be available but that's far from a sure thing. Giddey and Franz are gone though. One team or another ahead of them is grabbing them.

The Spurs has rumors they offered White and Murray in a trade. They haven't gained traction with a trade but if it happens it will be on draft night. I don't know if the Spurs have a horse in this race other than one of the top 5 which isn't getting traded for White or Murray. But we shall see on draft night. There are always deals that happen on draft night. Maybe they are comfortable with one of a number of possibilities that will be there at 12 though, and I think this is their modus operandi.

I still maintain that (in the absence of Beal becoming available) that the best trade Golden State can get out there is offering Wiggins + 7+ (14 or Wiseman) for white and DJ.

[TD 21]

It seems the Magic at 8 are wild cards (Sengun, Williams, Moody all speculated, but if the Warriors go Giddey at 7, would they pass on Kuminga?). The Hornets at 11 seem something of an unknown too (Jones is said to be preferred), but if Sengun is off the board, most likely we're looking at Kispert or J. Johnson.

[TheCerebral1]

Moses Moody! Free Fall to us. If not James Bouknight at 12.

[TheCerebral1]

It seem the Magic at 8 are wild cards. We knew all along Wagner would be gone, now it seems Giddey will be too and Sengun is probably a coin flip.

If he goes, we're probably looking at Kispert or J. Johnson (maybe Jones, but he's probably a coin flip).

Kispert is going to be a waste of a fucking draft pick for someone 7-15.

[SAGirl]

They are not done. They want to move up from 10.
Intriguing. Links?I

Edit=nvm saw the posting. Was apparently being added while I was posting myself.

[SAGirl]

Who broke the Pelicans / Grizzlies rumor before the trade actually happened? We need to follow that guy closely…
Givony yesterday I believe. Was the first one I saw at least. Woj didn't post until it materialized. Givony posted it was in progress yesterday.

[rjv]

Wasn't last year's chatter made up entirely on this board? I've seen some murmurs that SA is looking to move up, like with Sports Illustrated.

there were also 'rumblings' about the spurs looking to move LMA for a higher pick. it all amounted to nothing, as per usual.

[mo7888]

there were also 'rumblings' about the spurs looking to move LMA for a higher pick. it all amounted to nothing, as per usual.

Yes, but things changed on that rumor when Klay got hurt.

[alfahdlan]

Ja Morant tweets

https://twitter.com/jamorant/status/1419786893672189957?s=21

[CGD]

That feels pretty nice for Memphis. Bledsoe might help and I like Adams to play beefy down low. NOP doesn't give away a shit load just to get rid of those contracts. Real question is who Memphis is targeting at No. 10. Feel like it could be Wagner, but he might be gone. Who do they think will be there?

EDIT: Grizzlies are eating a lot of salary mostly for 7 slots. Huh.

It’s really not that much salary at all. Valensinous and Bledsoe aren’t that big a difference, especially with Bledsoe only being owed about 3m in his last year. And haven’t paid Adams anything’s (looks like they’ve nabbed his bird rights is all).

This is a good, smart trade for both sides.

[SpurPadre]

There was a lot last year, Zach Lowe, the ringer, Keith smith we’re all saying the spurs were up to something if I recall correct

There was alot of talk of us trading with the Dubs’ pick to draft Wiseman while we send them LMA and the 11th pick but then Klay Thompson’s injury killed those plans.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/TheTyJager/status/1419806338264281088

[PhantomDashCam]

Basketballnews.com - U/D mock

- Scottie Barnes going #4 to Toronto (def. possible, especially if Siakam rumors are true)
- Bouknight to Thunder at #6
- Moody at #10 to Grizzlies
- 'The Goon' (TM pending) to Spurs at #12
- Kessler Edwards to Spurs at #41

https://www.writeups.org/wp-content/uploads/The-Goon-Comics-Powell.jpg

[Mr. Body]

Basketballnews.com - U/D mock

- Scottie Barnes going #4 to Toronto (def. possible, especially if Siakam rumors are true)
- Bouknight to Thunder at #6
- Moody at #10 to Grizzlies
- 'The Goon' (TM pending) to Spurs at #12
- Kessler Edwards to Spurs at #41

https://www.writeups.org/wp-content/uploads/The-Goon-Comics-Powell.jpg

That would be a great draft for the Spurs.

They have Toronto taking Scottie Barnes, which I think can happen. If so, it shakes things up in the next half dozen picks.

[PhantomDashCam]

Corey Kispert has indeed worked out for Spurs according to this report...

https://sports.yahoo.com/former-gonzaga-wing-corey-kispert-212039989.html


It hadn’t been announced until he did so himself Monday, but Kispert confirmed he met and worked out for the Wizards (along with the Magic, Spurs, Warriors, Kings, Pelicans, Pacers and Hornets) in his pre-draft process.

[Mr. Body]

Corey Kispert has indeed worked out for Spurs according to this report...

https://sports.yahoo.com/former-gonzaga-wing-corey-kispert-212039989.html

They saw he could shoot and immediately asked him to leave.

[SAGirl]

Too many rumors about the Grizzlies are now creating a lot of noise in Twitter everyone will want to podcast about it and comment etc.

Surprisingly GSW standing pat so far.

Wizards rumblings with Beal and Westbrook. Westbrook asked if there was any interest for a trade from a playoff team. If Westbrook is gone, so is Beal. Who would have figured Westbrook is the alpha there? Although I think Beal is more attached to his team than Westbrook is obviously and he would be willing to stick if they were competent.

Something might happen on that end to watch out for.

[SAGirl]

They saw he could shoot and immediately asked him to leave.
Underrated humor. :bobo

[PhantomDashCam]

They saw he could shoot and immediately asked him to leave.


Rumor has it he beat Bryn Forbes' long standing, open gym five made 3s consecutive shot streak.

[Dejounte]

https://mobile.twitter.com/draftexpress/status/1419777139394719744

its going to be Moody for the Grizzlies

hes the one who called the trade in the first place

Givony is plugged in

[Dejounte]

1. Cade
2. Green
3. Mobley
4. Suggs
5. Barnes
6. Kuminga
7. Bouknight
8. Sengun
9. Wagner
10. Moody
11. Kai
12.

[mo7888]

1. Cade
2. Green
3. Mobley
4. Suggs
5. Barnes
6. Kuminga
7. Bouknight
8. Sengun
9. Wagner
10. Moody
11. Kai
12.

Kispert or Jalen Johnson

[Degoat]

1. Cade
2. Green
3. Mobley
4. Suggs
5. Barnes
6. Kuminga
7. Bouknight
8. Sengun
9. Wagner
10. Moody
11. Kai
12.

If that was the scenario give me one of Giddey, Jalen Johnson, or Keon Johnson at 12

[Dejounte]

Kispert or Jalen Johnson

If this is how it goes, then any of Giddey, Duarte, or Jackson for me.

[SAGirl]

https://mobile.twitter.com/draftexpress/status/1419777139394719744

its going to be Moody for the Grizzlies

hes the one who called the trade in the first place

Givony is plugged in
Ja! I predicted this is who they wanted!

But honestly though, that's not to say they wouldn't prefer others but if they are taken this is who they can get and is someone that was still worth that trade to them.

BTW he also said there's interest in Giddey and Wagner and that many believe Giddey will go higher . Well just have to see what Gs W does with their pick.

No rumors about Sengun though.

[mo7888]

If this is how it goes, then any of Giddey, Duarte, or Jackson for me.

It's hard for me to say because I don't know our 'direction'... if we're going completely young then I'd go upside with Johnson, Jackson, or Giddey(from this group)...if we are going to sign or trade for win now players I'd go Kispert...followed by Duarte.

[Uriel]

https://twitter.com/TheTyJager/status/1419806338264281088
Reminds me of how they instructed Vassell not to tell anyone he worked out with them last year to hide their interest in him.

[Degoat]

I have a feeling the spurs are gonna go out of left field and draft Tre Mann or something lol

[Uriel]

When are we going to get timvp’s Big Board? Didn’t we already have Version 1.0 around this time last year?

[Mr. Body]

I have a feeling the spurs are gonna go out of left field and draft Tre Mann or something lol

My dark horse is Keon Johnson.

[Dejounte]

When are we going to get timvp’s Big Board? Didn’t we already have Version 1.0 around this time last year?

the guy disappears for months. I wonder if he works offshore.

[mo7888]

My dark horse is Keon Johnson.

I think that's a pretty solid dark horse kind of pick...he seems to have dropped a little in the minds of most pundits...

[R. DeMurre]

I'd wager that Jaden Springer has a better career than Keon Johnson.

[SAGirl]

Spurs rumors to get into the top 10
First time I see it, but it references as a source a SI article. The bidding is probably too rich I imagine. But anything happening I expect to be in draft night.

1419825988800847873

One interesting factoid here is that the Spurs worked out apparently a lot of guards which I don't see mentioned here bc it's likely not to the interest of fans but should they move White or Murray a main guard with upside should be drafted, So it makes sense to me.

[mo7888]

Spurs rumors to get into the top 10
First time I see it, but it references as a source a SI article. The bidding is probably too rich I imagine. But anything happening I expect to be in draft night.

1419825988800847873

One interesting factoid here is that the Spurs worked out apparently a lot of guards which I don't see mentioned here bc it's likely not to the interest of fans but should they move White or Murray a main guard with upside should be drafted, So it makes sense to me.

I wonder who we would be targeting? Are we talking about moving into the top 6? Hopefully we get a little more context in the next day or so.

[mo7888]

I'd wager that Jaden Springer has a better career than Keon Johnson.

I have Springer high on my BB as well..

[Mr. Body]

I wonder who we would be targeting? Are we talking about moving into the top 6? Hopefully we get a little more context in the next day or so.

They'd have to give up an asset like Dejounte Murray and I don't think they replace a Dejounte Murray with that pick. It doesn't make sense. But I'd see it as after the top 5, anyway. The prices above that have to be very high.

[mo7888]

They'd have to give up an asset like Dejounte Murray and I don't think they replace a Dejounte Murray with that pick. It doesn't make sense. But I'd see it as after the top 5, anyway. The prices above that have to be very high.

Yea I agree with that...most prognosticators have a top 5 or 6 man tier (depending on how you view Kuminga)..personally I have it a little deeper but, assuming they are with the consensus it would take a good bit to get that high....on the other hand if they like Kuminga and he falls a little or maybe they are as high as I am on Wagner then maybe getting to 7 or 8 gets it done...

[Degoat]

I think the only guy to reasonably trade up for is Kuminga because he’s falling some, I don’t even think we have enough to get into the top 5

[Mr. Body]

Yea I agree with that...most prognosticators have a top 5 or 6 man tier (depending on how you view Kuminga)..personally I have it a little deeper but, assuming they are with the consensus it would take a good bit to get that high....on the other hand if they like Kuminga and he falls a little or maybe they are as high as I am on Wagner then maybe getting to 7 or 8 gets it done...

There's some unexpected movement up top, with Mobley maybe slipping to four. The two players I kind of see the Spurs coveting up at the top are Mobley and possibly Barnes.

[Big Empty]

.

[Big Empty]

I have a feeling the spurs are gonna go out of left field and draft Tre Mann or something lol Tre Mann gonna end up being the best scorer of the bunch. He has handles & can shoot.

[Degoat]

Tre Mann gonna end up being the best scorer of the bunch. He has handles & can shoot.

I agree he could, that’s why I wouldn’t be surprised if he was the pick lol I think with Demar leaving and Patty potentially leaving the spurs could add another guard

[mo7888]

There's some unexpected movement up top, with Mobley maybe slipping to four. The two players I kind of see the Spurs coveting up at the top are Mobley and possibly Barnes.

Mobley would be the dream in this draft.... I'd give alot to move up and grab him if he fell to a team willing to deal.

[offset formation]

Now you're spinning like those idiot Trump supporters you so rightly and eloquently criticize.

I don't want them to just do something (I've detailed countless scenarios I'd either be fine with or could at least understand), I said if nothing else I'll take that over the usual relative inactivity. Anything to see a pulse.

They keep going the way they are, they're going to continue to have the lowest odds possible of building a sustainably good team with the assets and flexibility to pivot and improve beyond that.

what if Luka has a breakout season and we add a John Collins in FA? Add in a draft pick like Sengun or Wagner and this team is competing for homecourt advantage in a couple years

[Degoat]

Mannnn, I know people think he has red flags but Jalen Johnson looks like he could be a beast imo him and Keldon at the forward positions could punish teams!

[John B]

Mannnn, I know people think he has red flags but Jalen Johnson looks like he could be a beast imo him and Keldon at the forward positions could punish teams!
Just keep that red flag flying. If anything Pop could get the inside from Coach K

[Thomas82]

Mobley would be the dream in this draft.... I'd give alot to move up and grab him if he fell to a team willing to deal.

+1

[SpurPadre]

So, no love for Kai Jones or do you guys think he's out of reach for us?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

My dark horse is Keon Johnson.

Mine's Cam Thomas.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Love the trade for NO. The difference between 10 and 17 won't be that great, they'd probably still have one of Kispert, Murphy or Duarte available to them if they keep the pick at all. They get rid of both of their bad contracts in one swing for the price of 7 slots and a future Lakers first that's likely going to be meh, while upgrading their center position and allowing themselves breathing room under the cap or have a huge TE if they choose to stay above the cap.

Memphis is one of the most interesting teams around the draft and free agency. They have too many players under contract for next season already and they have the JJJ extension coming up that they may not be willing to commit to. I could see them trading him away instead of giving him the max. They will be making more trades for sure.

[John B]

Spurs rumors to get into the top 10
First time I see it, but it references as a source a SI article. The bidding is probably too rich I imagine. But anything happening I expect to be in draft night.

1419825988800847873

One interesting factoid here is that the Spurs worked out apparently a lot of guards which I don't see mentioned here bc it's likely not to the interest of fans but should they move White or Murray a main guard with upside should be drafted, So it makes sense to me.

Hopefully a 3 team S&T trade to accommodate Demar’s wishes while getting the Spurs a haul and another pick. I’d take Sengun and Duarte.

[bluebellmaniac]

2 Days until the Draft!

6 Days until Free Agency!

[CGD]

Spurs rumors to get into the top 10
First time I see it, but it references as a source a SI article. The bidding is probably too rich I imagine. But anything happening I expect to be in draft night.

1419825988800847873

One interesting factoid here is that the Spurs worked out apparently a lot of guards which I don't see mentioned here bc it's likely not to the interest of fans but should they move White or Murray a main guard with upside should be drafted, So it makes sense to me.

This feels like a reaction to the Memphis move. Wonder if they’re eying the same player…

[CGD]

The Cleveland pick feels like it’s in play, as do one of the Orlando picks. First seems out of reach, but if Mobley is sitting there you have to at least make a call.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/forthewin/status/1419946957670387713?s=21

maybe they’re trying to decide between Moody and Wagner?

[Mr. Body]

https://twitter.com/forthewin/status/1419946957670387713?s=21

maybe they’re trying to decide between Moody and Wagner?

I think so. Giddey doesn't quite make sense.

[FlAVaK]

1419998506304081943

[alfahdlan]

https://twitter.com/forthewin/status/1419946957670387713?s=21

maybe they’re trying to decide between Moody and Wagner?

me? I go with Franz, though they already have Kyle.

[Dejounte]

me? I go with Franz, though they already have Kyle.

I forgot all about Kyle. No way they go for Franz. They have Tillman too. Wouldn’t make sense.

[CGD]

Wait, why don’t we like Jalen Johnson at 12 again??

Dude is essentially cheaper, younger John Collins.

[mo7888]

I forgot all about Kyle. No way they go for Franz. They have Tillman too. Wouldn’t make sense.

Memphis is targeting Moody if they remain at 10

[offset formation]

Wait, why don’t we like Jalen Johnson at 12 again??

Dude is essentially cheaper, younger John Collins.

evidently he's not a Spurs type of player.

[CGD]

evidently he's not a Spurs type of player.

Would appreciate the thought process there. Tools look impressive. Has to be a motor/drive thing?

[John B]

Wait, why don’t we like Jalen Johnson at 12 again??

Dude is essentially cheaper, younger John Collins.

I’ve been rooting for him, but ST thinks he’s a prima donna, yet the same people wants Collins who was suspended 25 games without pay due to PED’s and now demanding MAX contract. I mean, I understand the money part, but the same way people should understand Jalen’s actions protecting his future.

[John B]

Wait, why don’t we like Jalen Johnson at 12 again??

Dude is essentially cheaper, younger John Collins.

I’ve been rooting for him, but ST thinks he’s a prima donna, yet the same people wants Collins who was suspended 25 games without pay due to PED’s and now demanding MAX contract. I mean, I understand the money part, but the same way people should understand Jalen’s actions protecting his future.

[Dejounte]

Would appreciate the thought process there. Tools look impressive. Has to be a motor/drive thing?

not ruling him out but he plays bad, lazy defense and has a high ego who may end up being a ticking time bomb for a team.

[4lifecowboy]

It's Kia Jones, the reason they are trying to move into top 10, they are trying to get ahead of Charlotte.

[offset formation]

Would appreciate the thought process there. Tools look impressive. Has to be a motor/drive thing?

Dejounte already answered.

[SAGirl]

https://twitter.com/forthewin/status/1419946957670387713?s=21

maybe they’re trying to decide between Moody and Wagner?
I think they really want Wagner but Sacramento is drafting him at 9. They aren't getting him unless they trade to go higher. However Moody is a good fallback option, still worth the trade if they end up with him.

You have to assume Moody isn't the guy if they are still trying to climb.

[SAGirl]

Love the trade for NO. The difference between 10 and 17 won't be that great, they'd probably still have one of Kispert, Murphy or Duarte available to them if they keep the pick at all. They get rid of both of their bad contracts in one swing for the price of 7 slots and a future Lakers first that's likely going to be meh, while upgrading their center position and allowing themselves breathing room under the cap or have a huge TE if they choose to stay above the cap.

Memphis is one of the most interesting teams around the draft and free agency. They have too many players under contract for next season already and they have the JJJ extension coming up that they may not be willing to commit to. I could see them trading him away instead of giving him the max. They will be making more trades for sure.
Plus I think they can reroute the 2022 picks they have for a star eventually if one were available that they wanted. Their asset accumulation seems like it has a design I think. This isn't just random, IMO.

JJJ is big question mark, but he's been injured and very young despite his years in the league. So far they have been committed to his development and if anything, they'll resign him. They aren't going to let that asset go for nothing, but they could turn him into someone else. It's still early to make a determination on him IMO.

Anyways they are taking risks instead of standing pat and let the development course continue. It could go horribly wrong or may end up panning out. I think they are on the Chinook (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=37557) path of gathering assets between picks and young players they have developed (and the solid veterans they have) to make a move for a star somewhere down the road. Speculation of course.

[SAGirl]

Hopefully a 3 team S&T trade to accommodate Demar’s wishes while getting the Spurs a haul and another pick. I’d take Sengun and Duarte.
A Derozan trade involving the draft is unlikely. I think they made their inquiries early and aren't going to find a trade partner.

I also think they don't have good enough assets to reach for the sky in this draft, and because they have many positional needs they can make good use of several players that will fall to their pick. In other words, it's only worth it for 2-3 guys who they aren't going to be able to obtain.

I mean, it's possible a trade happens but very unlikely. To me that tweet was just the local media rehashing the same Murray and White trade rumors that have already been out trying to calm down fans that don't think the Spurs tried to make some move.

[cd98]

Spurs rumors to get into the top 10
First time I see it, but it references as a source a SI article. The bidding is probably too rich I imagine. But anything happening I expect to be in draft night.

1419825988800847873

One interesting factoid here is that the Spurs worked out apparently a lot of guards which I don't see mentioned here bc it's likely not to the interest of fans but should they move White or Murray a main guard with upside should be drafted, So it makes sense to me.

Hmmm, now they want to get into the lower half of the lottery. Hope the play-in game was worth it...got to satisfy Pop's ego to not be totally irrelevant.

[Leetonidas]

Spurs rumors to get into the top 10
First time I see it, but it references as a source a SI article. The bidding is probably too rich I imagine. But anything happening I expect to be in draft night.

1419825988800847873

One interesting factoid here is that the Spurs worked out apparently a lot of guards which I don't see mentioned here bc it's likely not to the interest of fans but should they move White or Murray a main guard with upside should be drafted, So it makes sense to me.

interesting, this clown is reporting the spurs are looking to trade back into the teens or 20s :lol

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2946416-latest-trade-buzz-on-ben-simmons-bradley-beal-andshai-gilgeous-alexander


Sacramento's No. 9 pick continues to be considered available, as well. While Memphis took on the contracts of Eric Bledsoe and Steven Adams as part of the price to move up from the No. 17 pick to the 10th pick, San Antonio (No. 12) and Indiana (No. 13) are both still considered prime candidates to trade back into the mid-teens or early 20s for the right value.

[Uriel]

1420024708251193352

[Degoat]

If the spurs get two late firsts I’d be happy trading back

[John B]

A Derozan trade involving the draft is unlikely. I think they made their inquiries early and aren't going to find a trade partner.

I also think they don't have good enough assets to reach for the sky in this draft, and because they have many positional needs they can make good use of several players that will fall to their pick. In other words, it's only worth it for 2-3 guys who they aren't going to be able to obtain.

I mean, it's possible a trade happens but very unlikely. To me that tweet was just the local media rehashing the same Murray and White trade rumors that have already been out trying to calm down fans that don't think the Spurs tried to make some move.
Thank you. I just wish the PATFO will do all diligence. With the salary available, and Demar probably out, there are deals to make to get the Spurs back in course.

[ginobilized]

Let me just get my head around all this.

1) Spurs are looking to move up in the draft.
2) Spurs are looking to move back in the draft.
3) Spurs have their mind made up on who they want at no. 12.
4) Spurs have several options at no. 12
5) Spurs will trade their pick for an established player.

Sounds like every other team in the league.
This draft needs to hurry up and happen already!!!!!!

[SAGirl]

1420024708251193352

It's only a little disappointing in that I think they would only consider this move if they don't think they will get their guy that they really want at 12 (of can't move higher to get him), but that's unsurprising.

I like them turning around to.maximize value.

Many fans here were exploring possibilities to trade back to pick 2 firsts bc the draft fell.off significantly after the very top and after that there are many gambles. It's about finding the sleepers. The Spurs are good finding talent later in the first round and may feel confident some good players are still going to be available.

Btw, I expect at least one more guard to be drafted.

ALlso, maybe they think some of the guys they like will be available later (specially the guards).

I feel good about their situation in that case. They will end up with a good player if they have more swings.

The statement "for the right value" is telling. This can involve not just 2 for 1 pick swaps, but also players that may be available for trades that the Spurs like.

[mo7888]

1420024708251193352

It's not that surprising. Hollinger thinks the draft is weak 10-19 but is better value in the 20-30 range and they could be coming to that conclusion as well.

[PrimeMinister]

When you’re picking in the middle of the first round, you prepare for the possibility of players you like falling to you at 12, a player you like being available in a trade up scenario, and you prepare for a scenario where your preferred options are all unavailable at 12 and it makes sense to take 2 swings at the end of the round.

Fischer also isn’t Woj, Shams or one of the top tier reporters and could be reporting bad or fabricated info. Don’t think there’s much here.

Hollinger has clout but I always think about parsons whenever he has a hot take or some sort of clairvoyant ramblings.

[The Truth #6]

Well, it makes sense to see what options are out there, especially if someone drops to 12 that they don't want but others do, for example. Also, with all this talk of teams trying to move up, maybe there IS value to move back if the deal is right. Conclusion: nothing will happen.

[rjv]

Well, it makes sense to see what options are out there, especially if someone drops to 12 that they don't want but others do, for example. Also, with all this talk of teams trying to move up, maybe there IS value to move back if the deal is right. Conclusion: nothing will happen.


that's where my money is. i'm just moving ahead with the premise that 12 is where the spurs are picking and hoping that some of the players that i like are still on the board by then.

[Mr. Body]

Why are people freaking out that the Spurs might be looking to trade up or trade down at the same time? They have tiers of players they like, meanwhile are gauging other teams' interests in those same players. If they need to get ahead of someone to get a guy, they'll try. If they don't see the players on a tier available at 12, they could trade back. As mentioned above, there's a plateau around their pick so that similarly talented players will be available, perhaps, between 12 and 20. If OKC wants a player that's still available, then, they could do a swap. It's not a big deal.

[CGD]

It's not that surprising. Hollinger thinks the draft is weak 10-19 but is better value in the 20-30 range and they could be coming to that conclusion as well.

12 for Houston’s 23 and 24?

Rather keep 12 until Turkish, German, and Aussie kids are gone for sure. I’m not really feeling Moody or Guaraba at 12.

[mo7888]

12 for Houston’s 23 and 24?

Rather keep 12 until Turkish, German, and Aussie kids are gone for sure. I’m not really feeling Moody or Guaraba at 12.

That's probably on the table, I don't think anything happens until they see who's on the board at 12 though.

[Mr. Body]

12 for Houston’s 23 and 24?

Rather keep 12 until Turkish, German, and Aussie kids are gone for sure. I’m not really feeling Moody or Guaraba at 12.

That's too cheap for the 12.

[Drom John]

I'm a Pelton fan (Kawhi, Jokic, VanFleet, Haliburton).

1. Sengun
2. Garuba
3. Giddey
4. Wagner
5. Moody
6. Murphy
7. Kuminga
8. Mobley
9. Suggs
10. Champagnie
11. Thor
12. Green

[DPG21920]

My concerns about the MEM deal is it shows just how stagnant SA has been and how uncreative they are. They’ve supposedly taken the “safe” route but have what to show for it? All the teams in SAs division either were already in playoffs or have a brighter futures and for what?

If your going to play it safe you should at least have playoffs to show for it and other teams in the division are ahead and have better foundations as of now. To say this draft and off season is big for Sa is a massive understatement and do they have a real plan and direction?

Luckily DDR/Rudy (and hopefully Mills) being gone signals they see something but man, this is big. Because as of now:

SA: has no true all star or foundational piece but does have a ton of cap space + pick 12 and all their future picks. But they need to engage in the other facets of front office duties (trades and free agency).

Memphis: already has their young star, were already as competitive as SA was despite SA aiming for being a PO team and doing nothing to shape their future or bolster their PO chances and now Mem has a better pick too (pick 10)

Dallas: was a playoff team already and has a generational talent in Luka

NO: has a generational talent in Zion and just cleared their books while still having a top 20 pick

HOU: arguably the only team behind SA but they nailed the Porter Jr trade (no risk all upside), Wood is very solid and they landed the 2nd pick which gives them a shot at landing a franchise guy before Sa

Spurs do have solid youth and tons of flexibility so they can turn things around in due time but they need to show a pulse here fast.

[Drom John]

Second pick Peltons:

13. Wieskamp
14. Primo
15. Hyland
16. Johnson, Jalen
17. Blassey
18. Cunnigham
19. Ballock
20. Sharpe
21. Edwards
22. Steward
23. Ayayi
24. Nix
25. Springer
26. Aldama
27. Barnes
28. Valicka
29. Kispert
30. Jackson
31. Schakel
32. Livers
33. Hurt
34. Duarte
35. Butler
36. Hauser
37. Thomas
38. Boston
39. Williams, Ziaire
40. Robinson-Earl
41. McBride

[Mr. Body]

My concerns about the MEM deal is it shows just how stagnant SA has been and how uncreative they are. They’ve supposedly taken the “safe” route but have what to show for it? All the teams in SAs division either were already in playoffs or have a brighter futures and for what?

If your going to play it safe you should at least have playoffs to show for it and other teams in the division are ahead and have better foundations as of now. To say this draft and off season is big for Sa is a massive understatement and do they have a real plan and direction?

Luckily DDR/Rudy (and hopefully Mills) being gone signals they see something but man, this is big. Because as of now:

SA: has no true all star or foundational piece but does have a ton of cap space + pick 12 and all their future picks. But they need to engage in the other facets of front office duties (trades and free agency).

Memphis: already has their young star, were already as competitive as SA was despite SA aiming for being a PO team and doing nothing to shape their future or bolster their PO chances and now Mem has a better pick too (pick 10)

Dallas: was a playoff team already and has a generational talent in Luka

NO: has a generational talent in Zion and just cleared their books while still having a top 20 pick

HOU: arguably the only team behind SA but they nailed the Porter Jr trade (no risk all upside), Wood is very solid and they landed the 2nd pick which gives them a shot at landing a franchise guy before Sa

Spurs do have solid youth and tons of flexibility so they can turn things around in due time but they need to show a pulse here fast.

Dude, Houston is in fucking terrible shape? Woods and Porter Jr? A journeyman and potential headcase and a total fucking headcase? Plus the worst owner in sports.

Maybe stop bitching and realize this franchise was in the shittiest shape after Nephew nuked them. They were supposed to still be contending right now. It took fucking years for NOP, Dallas and Memphis to get their good players. The Spurs managed to get a decent core with the fucking #29 pick in multiple years. They could be even better if they didn't let one of those late picks go to the Grizzlies.

Memphis, meanwhile, had to eat a shitload of salary, killing their cap, and trade a good productive center just to move up seven slots in the draft. The Spurs are already there.

Goddamn is this fanbase too much. I get frustrated, too, but yipping and stammering about 'not doing much' -- please tell me you're not one of those who want to trade Dejounte Murray to move up a few spots. And then expect the Spurs, who never give away much during pre-drafts, to be doing interpretive dance Cirque du Soleil numbers with fireworks in the streets to please you with a 'pulse.'

[Drom John]

Names not on Pelton's top 41 include:

44. Johnson, Keon
45. Petrusev
50. Jones, Kai
51. Queta
53. Garza
61. Bouknight
78. Mitchell

[SAGirl]

That's probably on the table, I don't think anything happens until they see who's on the board at 12 though.
I think that’s important. Until they see who is at 12, they can’t really gauge if they want to trade.

[SAGirl]

I'm a Pelton fan (Kawhi, Jokic, VanFleet, Haliburton).

1. Sengun
2. Garuba
3. Giddey
4. Wagner
5. Moody
6. Murphy
7. Kuminga
8. Mobley
9. Suggs
10. Champagnie
11. Thor
12. Green
Wow! Sengun #1, Garuda #2. Giddey and Wagner 3 and 4. Well at least he has pelotas!! Moody number 5. Murphy 6. Pelotudo.

well because there are some guys that are overrated and will bust (like every year), some of those will go lower than projected.

however there are good teams drafting ahead of the Spurs, with decent scouting and drafting histories, therefore it’s tricky…. But so interesting! Thanks for sharing.

Edit: is this a list of your favorites? If it is, still thanks for sharing, interesting list.

[DPG21920]

Dude, Houston is in fucking terrible shape? Woods and Porter Jr? A journeyman and potential headcase and a total fucking headcase? Plus the worst owner in sports.

Maybe stop bitching and realize this franchise was in the shittiest shape after Nephew nuked them. They were supposed to still be contending right now. It took fucking years for NOP, Dallas and Memphis to get their good players. The Spurs managed to get a decent core with the fucking #29 pick in multiple years. They could be even better if they didn't let one of those late picks go to the Grizzlies.

Memphis, meanwhile, had to eat a shitload of salary, killing their cap, and trade a good productive center just to move up seven slots in the draft. The Spurs are already there.

Goddamn is this fanbase too much. I get frustrated, too, but yipping and stammering about 'not doing much' -- please tell me you're not one of those who want to trade Dejounte Murray to move up a few spots. And then expect the Spurs, who never give away much during pre-drafts, to be doing interpretive dance Cirque du Soleil numbers with fireworks in the streets to please you with a 'pulse.'

Yeah. You’re overly emotional and all I posted was facts based on where we are. It’s not conjecture. It’s not about how or why we are here. But it’s where we are and what battles we are facing.

SA would trade nearly every player on the roster for that #2 pick so as shit as HOU is, landing that pick puts them on a solid enough path. Wood would be one of the best players on the Spurs right now Porter Jr being a headcase doesn’t change the fact he was no risk for HOU and has shown immense upside (more than many on SA and I love our youth)

[R. DeMurre]

Let me just get my head around all this.

1) Spurs are looking to move up in the draft.
2) Spurs are looking to move back in the draft.
3) Spurs have their mind made up on who they want at no. 12.
4) Spurs have several options at no. 12
5) Spurs will trade their pick for an established player.

Sounds like every other team in the league.
This draft needs to hurry up and happen already!!!!!!


When you’re picking in the middle of the first round, you prepare for the possibility of players you like falling to you at 12, a player you like being available in a trade up scenario, and you prepare for a scenario where your preferred options are all unavailable at 12 and it makes sense to take 2 swings at the end of the round.

Fischer also isn’t Woj, Shams or one of the top tier reporters and could be reporting bad or fabricated info. Don’t think there’s much here.

Hollinger has clout but I always think about parsons whenever he has a hot take or some sort of clairvoyant ramblings.

There are a handful of guys who are really tapped into the top tier of NBA networks, but the overwhelming majority of reports are from writers who do the same thing everyone on Spurstalk does-- look at hoopshype, look at RealGM, look at a dozen other sites. It's fun to play GM-- we all do it, right?-- but most writers cheat the reality a bit because "some sources" sounds a lot more authoritative than "my complete guess."

[DPG21920]

Dude, Houston is in fucking terrible shape? Woods and Porter Jr? A journeyman and potential headcase and a total fucking headcase? Plus the worst owner in sports.

Maybe stop bitching and realize this franchise was in the shittiest shape after Nephew nuked them. They were supposed to still be contending right now. It took fucking years for NOP, Dallas and Memphis to get their good players. The Spurs managed to get a decent core with the fucking #29 pick in multiple years. They could be even better if they didn't let one of those late picks go to the Grizzlies.

Memphis, meanwhile, had to eat a shitload of salary, killing their cap, and trade a good productive center just to move up seven slots in the draft. The Spurs are already there.

Goddamn is this fanbase too much. I get frustrated, too, but yipping and stammering about 'not doing much' -- please tell me you're not one of those who want to trade Dejounte Murray to move up a few spots. And then expect the Spurs, who never give away much during pre-drafts, to be doing interpretive dance Cirque du Soleil numbers with fireworks in the streets to please you with a 'pulse.'

And beyond all this - what about my post do you actually disagree with?

Who cares if it took them “years” to get to this point? Who cares if nephew nuked us? Who cares if SA got a decent core with late picks?

That is all true and still doesn’t’ change the reality or point of my post. Did I say SA is awful and sucks and is so screwed and has no chance of doing anything meaningful and needs to make up all the lost ground immediately?

No. No I did not.

I simply stated where we are at, regardless of excuses or reasoning, and that they are clearly at a crossroads where they need TO START showing a pluse. Showing a pulse and having direction doesn’t mean things get fixed right away. Stating they don’t have a franchise talent to build around yet while all others outside of HOU do, doesn’t mean they can’t get one.

And furthermore; one of my main points is how the MEM deal has highlighted the issues within the Spurs FO. They have been downright awful and stuck in neutral in 2/3rds of FO responsibility: Draft and Free Agency.

Whether it all works out great for MEM or not, they are being creative using their assets (cap space) to make moves, obtain better assets and give themselves a good shot at competing for PO or being flexible. Dallas pulled off a bold trade for Luka. MEM has made moves and been creative and taken calculated risks.

HOU made a great low risk, high reward trade with KPJ and now has the 2nd pick because they choose to bottom out when their star demanded a trade vs clinging to the delusion of being a good team like SA did.


It’s simply a snap shot of the reality we find ourselves in - so unless you disagree with any of that, I don’t see your issue outside of being emotional about it?

[Mugen]

:lol They're very clearly in a holding pattern where the franchise is being held hostage by one man's ego. I wouldn't look for any worthwhile changes until the old man stench is gone tbh.

[exstatic]

Would appreciate the thought process there. Tools look impressive. Has to be a motor/drive thing?

After his junior year of HS, he transferred to one of those basketball academies. Never played a game. Committed to Duke. Quit after 13 games.

[BackHome]

Estatic didn’t he quit during a year of COVID you remember the deadly disease on its way to kill a million people? Why would anyone want to play against other players with that Deadly disease just waiting to kill you or give you a lifetime of chronic issues?

[Drom John]

Wow! Sengun #1, Garuda #2. Giddey and Wagner 3 and 4. Well at least he has pelotas!! Moody number 5. Murphy 6. Pelotudo.

well because there are some guys that are overrated and will bust (like every year), some of those will go lower than projected.

however there are good teams drafting ahead of the Spurs, with decent scouting and drafting histories, therefore it’s tricky…. But so interesting! Thanks for sharing.

Edit: is this a list of your favorites? If it is, still thanks for sharing, interesting list.

Ignoring a very bad 2019, I watch the draft marking off this list.

From what I understand, while Sengun has a huge Pelton lead on Garuba, Pelton's Twitter implied that Sengun rated below what Ball, Edwards and Haliburton did last year.

2006 Damir Markota | all 30 Pelton picks gone by 59
2007 Tiago Splitter | Nick Fazekas
2008 George Hill | Mario Chalmers
2009 DeJuan Blair | DeJuan Blair (overall Pelton #1)
2010 James Anderson | Hassan Whiteside
2011 Kawhi Leonard | Kawhi Leonard; Cory Joseph | Shelvin Mack
2012 Marcus Denmon | Marcus Denmon
2013 Livio Jean-Charles | Jeff Withey
2014 Kyle Anderson | Nikola Jokic (Pelton #4)
2015 Nikola Milutinov | R.J. Hunter
2016 Dejounte Murray | Zhou Qi (or Fred Van Vleet if you doubted Zhou's age)
2017 Derrick White | Monte Morris
2018 Lonnie Walker IV | Dzana Musa
2019 Luka Šamanić | Dedric Lawson ; Keldon Johnson | Bol Bol ; Quinndary Weatherspoon | Shamorie Ponds
2020 Devin Vassell | Tyrese Haliburton (Pelton #3) ; Tre Jones | never saw Pelton's big list, but Jones was #39 in 2019 before he pulled out of the draft.

Copied from 2019:


player's projected performance as a rookie

His age

His rank in the latest top 100 from my ESPN colleagues Jonathan Givony and Mike Schmitz

From bits I have gathered over the years, whether they still are in his system:
Steals are very valuable and project very well, therefore Thybulle.
Low turnover rate translates well, therefore Ponds.
Rebounding translates pretty well, blocks moderately well, therefore Bol.
Age is important, Dejounte Murray is younger than Derrick White. Two players that gave Pelton age problems were Zhou Qi and Thon Maker. A 19 year old has more upside that the 23 year old, but that 23 year may produce earlier in the contract.
FT% is a better predictor of NBA 3P% than college 3P%.
College scoring is very misleading.
Improvements as a senior are discounted.
Quality of opponents is somehow normalized.
With each new year of draft data and the changing NBA, the actual formula gets tweaked with the newer results.
The former Ford lists, now Givony and Schmitz, is a hedge to include scouting, mathematically weighed by various factors. I believe scouting is weighted higher for the younger players, less for those with more data.

Another 2019 quote of me. emphasis added:

And yes, each blank spot has as corresponding Ford top 60 that Pelton might consider to be not worthy a draft pick. I don't see Hachimura, Bidatzke and others. As to Bidatzke, Semanic not on the list, note that Pelton has been a leading advocate for foreigners, Doncic #1, Capela #2, Jokic #4, Porzingas, Mirotic and others very high.

[Mr. Body]

Estatic didn’t he quit during a year of COVID you remember the deadly disease on its way to kill a million people? Why would anyone want to play against other players with that Deadly disease just waiting to kill you or give you a lifetime of chronic issues?

No, he quit because he quit. Probably didn't like being coached.

[Dejounte]

The statement “FA/ trades is the 2/3 of the FO’s responsibility” is where the problem begins and ends with fans

Real life isn’t NBA 2K

but this post will never get through because brains learn through experience rather than honest introspection

we will never admit we are looking at organizational decisions through the lens of someone inexperienced in making those decisions.

[DPG21920]

:lol They're very clearly in a holding pattern where the franchise is being held hostage by one man's ego. I wouldn't look for any worthwhile changes until the old man stench is gone tbh.

This is true. Pop seems to hold majority power and the decisions are in line with someone wanting to win/trusting vets too much vs doing what is probably best.

But now his hand is forced with DDR wanting a contender. So we will see what happens.

[DPG21920]

The statement “FA/ trades is the 2/3 of the FO’s responsibility” is where the problem begins and ends with fans

Real life isn’t NBA 2K

but this post will never get through because brains learn through experience rather than honest introspection

we will never admit we are looking at organizational decisions through the lens of someone inexperienced in making those decisions.

That is objectively false….

You don’t need to go 2K to acknowledge a major short coming in FA and trades. Many of us got flamed for calling for the trading of DDR/LMA/Rudy/Mills so they could get assets vs losing them. And not just last year, but 2 seasons ago when they actually had value since they weren’t expiring deals. We saw what this team was and that it was not good enough.

Beyond that preference, even if SA did what I (or many) disagreed with and went for the PO, they did nothing to bolster that strategy either. So it’s not a scenario of looking back and crapping on moves that made sense at the time; they did absolutely nothing but sit in neutral as their standing in the conference and especially the division diminished.

And I’m actually cautiously optimistic here. I don’t think this FO deserves the benefit of the doubt any more but either by legit choice or blind luck, their hand is now forced with DDR/RUDY/MILLS being FA and likely gone (maybe Mills stays). So now that they are gone and can’t be used a crutch to do just enough to miss playoffs, they will be forced to come to a decision(s).

They at least to their credit did not do anything harmful with regards to cap space and flexibility overall. They have good young talent and picks (now and future). But if their performance of the last few years doesn’t improve it will be a long painful road and they need to adapt to the modern nba and that includes being willing to trade and be bolder in FA (to the best of their ability).

There is no more Spurs way for the most part; they need talent and they need leadership in the FO that can see the modern nba and build that type of team. Pop is not that guy from a FO perspective and it needs to stop.

[R. DeMurre]

No, he quit because he quit. Probably didn't like being coached.

I get that you don't like him and there are good reasons to question his character, but the absolute unabashed certainty you have about this player is kinda funny to me. Rasheed Wallace and Boris Diaw had attitude issues (and when they were much older) and still played well, and tbh aren't most 18 year olds immature? Being 18 is kind of part of the definition of not yet being mature... I just get the feeling that there's something about this guy's personality that really get under your skin, and causes you to react pretty dramatically to every mention of him. I'm not attacking you, and I'll mention that my best friend is a famously short-tempered guy who even jokes about his ridiculous lack of patience, but man, when you talk about JJ it's like you just caught him banging your daughter in the garage an hour ago, and still have a blood pressure of 200/110 to prove it :lol... I'll be honest and say I actually like your takes on the draft, and have enjoyed reading them!

[Mr. Body]

That is objectively false….

You don’t need to go 2K to acknowledge a major short coming in FA and trades. Many of us got flamed for calling for the trading of DDR/LMA/Rudy/Mills so they could get assets vs losing them. And not just last year, but 2 seasons ago when they actually had value since they weren’t expiring deals. We saw what this team was and that it was not good enough.

Beyond that preference, even if SA did what I (or many) disagreed with and went for the PO, they did nothing to bolster that strategy either. So it’s not a scenario of looking back and crapping on moves that made sense at the time; they did absolutely nothing but sit in neutral as their standing in the conference and especially the division diminished.

Yet without the COVID interruption, this was a playoff team. I don't get people who think we could have received huge returns for these players, who they simultaneously hate. And like Dejounte said, this ain't a vidya game. If you get caught into a losing mentality, that's hard to shake. A small market team can get shitcanned really quickly and it takes years and years to get out. You're lucky this team isn't Sacramento yet you don't understand why it's not.

[Mr. Body]

I get that you don't like him and there are good reasons to question his character, but the absolute unabashed certainty you have about this player is kinda funny to me. Rasheed Wallace and Boris Diaw had attitude issues (and when they were much older) and still played well, and tbh aren't most 18 year olds immature? Being 18 is kind of part of the definition of not yet being mature... I just get the feeling that there's something about this guy's personality that really get under your skin, and causes you to react pretty dramatically to every mention of him. I'm not attacking you, and I'll mention that my best friend is a famously short-tempered guy who even jokes about his ridiculous lack of patience, but man, when you talk about JJ it's like you just caught him banging your daughter in the garage an hour ago, and still have a blood pressure of 200/110 to prove it :lol... I'll be honest and say I actually like your takes on the draft, and have enjoyed reading them!

I mean, the guy couldn't stand playing for Coach K. Do you need a Bat Signal or something? Why do you think he'd be an upright soldier all of a sudden in SA?

[DPG21920]

Yet without the COVID interruption, this was a playoff team. I don't get people who think we could have received huge returns for these players, who they simultaneously hate. And like Dejounte said, this ain't a vidya game. If you get caught into a losing mentality, that's hard to shake. A small market team can get shitcanned really quickly and it takes years and years to get out. You're lucky this team isn't Sacramento yet you don't understand why it's not.

They were already a losing mentality; Pop just couldn’t be honest about it. They were losers as we saw because they missed the PO twice. It was not bad luck; they did exactly what anyone objective likely knew they would: be just good enough to compete for the last seed but not truly a threat for anything.

You dont have to get a “huge return” either. But what you can’t do is nothing and hold onto players you know you will lose in FA until their value is 0. Now, if they get a S&T for DDR then some of that is mitigated surely. But if they would have been honest about who they were and knowing they weren’t willing to trade an youth/picks for players to help DDR win now, then you move him 2 seasons ago while his value was still +.

You dont have to be SAC to acknowledge reality. It was coming whether they “wanted to try and win” or not. And again, if you want to win and not be “SAC” then trade your youth and picks and go get more win now players.

You can’t both not do anything to help your future and claim you want to win then make no moves after missing the playoffs. That is what bad franchises do. You dont miss the playoffs, claim you want to win, then run it back with the same squad. Everyone went through COVID. Not just the Spurs.

[R. DeMurre]

I mean, the guy couldn't stand playing for Coach K. Do you need a Bat Signal or something? Why do you think he'd be an upright soldier all of a sudden in SA?

Stephen Jackson was never an upright soldier, but he had value... Again, I get a weird vibe from JJ too-- kinda shifty eyed, kinda defensive, etc. If he was a girl at a bar, I'd think uh-uh, not this one, or as one of my friend likes to joke, hey look at all the pretty red flags waving... My only question is with regards to proportion I guess. I don't have enough info to make an absolutely definitive rejection of him, and his highlights are pretty high. The FO of the Spurs do have those inside channels, so if they chose him, I'd feel relatively confident that his personality issues are not a deal breaker.

[rjv]

The statement “FA/ trades is the 2/3 of the FO’s responsibility” is where the problem begins and ends with fans

Real life isn’t NBA 2K

but this post will never get through because brains learn through experience rather than honest introspection

we will never admit we are looking at organizational decisions through the lens of someone inexperienced in making those decisions.

wait, so you meant to tell me that ST is populated by normal sports fans who have zero experience in running an organization and not a bunch of experts within the business? my world is shattered...

[Dejounte]

That is objectively false….

You don’t need to go 2K to acknowledge a major short coming in FA and trades. Many of us got flamed for calling for the trading of DDR/LMA/Rudy/Mills so they could get assets vs losing them. And not just last year, but 2 seasons ago when they actually had value since they weren’t expiring deals. We saw what this team was and that it was not good enough.

Beyond that preference, even if SA did what I (or many) disagreed with and went for the PO, they did nothing to bolster that strategy either. So it’s not a scenario of looking back and crapping on moves that made sense at the time; they did absolutely nothing but sit in neutral as their standing in the conference and especially the division diminished.

And I’m actually cautiously optimistic here. I don’t think this FO deserves the benefit of the doubt any more but either by legit choice or blind luck, their hand is now forced with DDR/RUDY/MILLS being FA and likely gone (maybe Mills stays). So now that they are gone and can’t be used a crutch to do just enough to miss playoffs, they will be forced to come to a decision(s).

They at least to their credit did not do anything harmful with regards to cap space and flexibility overall. They have good young talent and picks (now and future). But if their performance of the last few years doesn’t improve it will be a long painful road and they need to adapt to the modern nba and that includes being willing to trade and be bolder in FA (to the best of their ability).

There is no more Spurs way for the most part; they need talent and they need leadership in the FO that can see the modern nba and build that type of team. Pop is not that guy from a FO perspective and it needs to stop.


there is nothing false about saying that it’s ridiculous to say 2/3rds of the FO’s responsibilities are free agency and trades

saying there is a shortcoming in those two areas is a completely separate issue, but again, does not make up 2/3 of the FO’s responsibilities

[Dejounte]

wait, so you meant to tell me that ST is populated by normal sports fans who have zero experience in running an organization and not a bunch of experts within the business? my world is shattered...

it’s crazy, isn’t it? Yet here we are, yelling everyday at the sky as if we know better

[DPG21920]

there is nothing false about saying that it’s ridiculous to say 2/3rds of the FO’s responsibilities are free agency and trades

saying there is a shortcoming in those two areas is a completely separate issue, but again, does not make up 2/3 of the FO’s responsibilities

Maybe the debate lies in the definition: I was not saying they are all 3 equally weighted in order of importance or frequency. I was intending to say there are 3 phases of FO work: Draft/Development, Free Agency and Trades.

Draft happens every year and is most important. Trades wont happen as frequently etc…The purpose was to say they have results wise either performed really poorly in the other two areas or really neglected them altogether and missed opportunities due to a struggle on being honest on what they were/where they were.

[Dejounte]

Maybe the debate lies in the definition: I was not saying they are all 3 equally weighted in order of importance or frequency. I was intending to say there are 3 phases of FO work: Draft/Development, Free Agency and Trades.

Draft happens every year and is most important. Trades wont happen as frequently etc…The purpose was to say they have results wise either performed really poorly in the other two areas or really neglected them altogether and missed opportunities due to a struggle on being honest on what they were/where they were.

I still disagree here that FO is made up of three phases that you listed. They are all under one umbrella: roster construction. There are other umbrellas: player relations, coaching staff management, networking with other teams, agents, equipment at the facility, tech advancement, equipment management, scheduling, and a fuck ton more.

god i fucking regret switching to this phone. Can’t type for shit.

[toki9]

it’s crazy, isn’t it? Yet here we are, yelling everyday at the sky as if we know better

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

And then there is the severe asymmetrical data access issue between people posting here vs. the actual NBA FO personnel...

[DPG21920]

I still disagree here that FO is made up of three phases that you listed. They are all under one umbrella: roster construction. There are other umbrellas: player relations, coaching staff management, networking with other teams, agents, equipment at the facility, tech advancement, equipment management, scheduling, and a fuck ton more.

god i fucking regret switching to this phone. Can’t type for shit.

I mean, whatever lol. Slice it up however you want; this isn’t a business class debate. It’s about the main functions of a FO. Sure, it all gets to roster construction but acting like saying Draft/Development, FA and Trades are the 3 flagpoles of a FO is off seems like an odd bone to pick and misses the point.

Let’s call it roster construction to make you feel good: They have failed at that. They built the worst kind of team and because they did poorly in FA and trades (either with what they did or did not do) the roster construction has SA behind many of the teams in the division either in franchise player to build around or playoff contention (or in the case of MEM and DAL so far both).

[Thomas82]

So, no love for Kai Jones or do you guys think he's out of reach for us?

That's who I want us to draft if we stay at 12. If we move up, I want Evan Mobley.

[Thomas82]

Duplicate post.

[Dejounte]

I mean, whatever lol. Slice it up however you want; this isn’t a business class debate. It’s about the main functions of a FO. Sure, it all gets to roster construction but acting like saying Draft/Development, FA and Trades are the 3 flagpoles of a FO is off seems like an odd bone to pick and misses the point.

Let’s call it roster construction to make you feel good: They have failed at that. They built the worst kind of team and because they did poorly in FA and trades (either with what they did or did not do) the roster construction has SA behind many of the teams in the division either in franchise player to build around or playoff contention (or in the case of MEM and DAL so far both).

it’s not about what makes me feel good lol I’m calling you out for making a bad statement. That’s all that is.

and no, it isnt the three flagpoles of a FO. You’re still missing the point.

[DPG21920]

it’s not about what makes me feel good lol I’m calling you out for making a bad statement. That’s all that is.

Except no where else on Earth is saying Drafting/Development, Trades and FA are the FO main 3 roles is a “bad statement” except for your mind :lol

But that aside you are focusing on these labels vs addressing any of the substantive merit of the points being made..

[Dejounte]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

And then there is the severe asymmetrical data access issue between people posting here vs. the actual NBA FO personnel...


i love shit like this. Thanks for sharing. Something that actually you can learn about.

[Dejounte]

Except no where else on Earth is saying Drafting/Development, Trades and FA are the FO main 3 roles is a “bad statement” except for your mind :lol

But that aside you are focusing on these labels vs addressing any of the substantive merit of the points being made..

that was the foundation of your post. Your points have been made time and time again, by smarter people at that. There’s nothing new here to address.

[DPG21920]

that was the foundation of your post. Your points have been made time and time again, by smarter people at that. There’s nothing new here to address.

Ok

[toki9]

i love shit like this. Thanks for sharing. Something that actually you can learn about.

Cool. Happy to contribute.

[SAGirl]

Spurs FO rightfully deserves some criticism. Their FA signings after Gay were awful. They let Kyle and Davis go for nothing, they signed FA that didn't play well for them at all, wasting some of LMA last seasons as a useful player. They could have turned him and Dejar into assets and gone on a true rebuild but didn't want yo, and yet at the same time failed to make the playoffs 2 seasons in a row, effectively ending their playoff run, yet didn't adjust to add improvements outside of the draft.

There's a ton of criticism to be laid there, the Gasol deal, Cunningham, Pondexter, a Marco Belinelli that needed to retire and took minutes from White and Murray, Lyles, Demarre Carroll. It's been an awful FA summer after summer, the draft saves them so... I just don't feel like complaining about them when the draft is their one saving grace, but coming down hard on someone who is unsatisfied with their overall job is cheap.

They have sucked at times.

For me though, being enthusiastic about the draft is what I am all about right now. To each their own.

[Russ]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

And then there is the severe asymmetrical data access issue between people posting here vs. the actual NBA FO personnel...


The Dunning–Kruger effect is a hypothetical cognitive bias stating that people with low ability at a task overestimate their ability.

There is an unfortunate corollary to the above -- people who overestimate their ability tend to run the fucking world. :lol

[DPG21920]

Spurs FO rightfully deserves some criticism. Their FA signings after Gay were awful. They let Kyle and Davis go for nothing, they signed FA that didn't play well for them at all, wasting some of LMA last seasons as a useful player. They could have turned him and Dejar into assets and gone on a true rebuild but didn't want yo, and yet at the same time failed to make the playoffs 2 seasons in a row, effectively ending their playoff run, yet didn't adjust to add improvements outside of the draft.

There's a ton of criticism to be laid there, the Gasol deal, Cunningham, Pondexter, a Marco Belinelli that needed to retire and took minutes from White and Murray, Lyles, Demarre Carroll. It's been an awful FA summer after summer, the draft saves them so... I just don't feel like complaining about them when the draft is their one saving grace, but coming down hard on someone who is unsatisfied with their overall job is cheap.

They have sucked at times.

For me though, being enthusiastic about the draft is what I am all about right now. To each their own.

Yup. And I clearly said they draft well and I’m optimistic. I just pointed out the reality we face within our division and that the clock starts now on making progress.

[R. DeMurre]

:lol The draft can't come fast enough... so many exasperated semantic disputes today on spurstalk.

[NASpurs]

*shrugs*

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-reportedly-linked-to-free-agent-bigs (https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-reportedly-linked-to-free-agent-bigs)

The San Antonio Spurs are reportedly “connected to some free agent bigs” according to a report from The Athletic.

In his latest mock draft, John Hollinger selected big man Alperen Sengun for San Antonio with the 12th overall pick but was hesitant on the choice from the latest intel he heard from his sources.


“My spies say the Spurs have already been connected to some free-agent bigs, and that would be odd timing for a team that intends to pick a center. They already employ a big 7-footer in Jakob Poeltl, so they wouldn’t be forking out for another big unless they a) don’t plan on drafting one or b) think it’s still 1993.”

[R. DeMurre]

Spurs FO rightfully deserves some criticism. Their FA signings after Gay were awful. They let Kyle and Davis go for nothing, they signed FA that didn't play well for them at all, wasting some of LMA last seasons as a useful player. They could have turned him and Dejar into assets and gone on a true rebuild but didn't want yo, and yet at the same time failed to make the playoffs 2 seasons in a row, effectively ending their playoff run, yet didn't adjust to add improvements outside of the draft.

There's a ton of criticism to be laid there, the Gasol deal, Cunningham, Pondexter, a Marco Belinelli that needed to retire and took minutes from White and Murray, Lyles, Demarre Carroll. It's been an awful FA summer after summer, the draft saves them so... I just don't feel like complaining about them when the draft is their one saving grace, but coming down hard on someone who is unsatisfied with their overall job is cheap.

They have sucked at times.

For me though, being enthusiastic about the draft is what I am all about right now. To each their own.

To be fair, I don't know of a single coach, scout, or reputable sportswriter who thought the double mid-range attack of Aldridge + DeRozan was going to succeed. Pretty much every mention of it for two years outside of the cheerleading fan realm was of the "we're not really sure what the Spurs are angling for here" variety... The draft is kind of the only think many have been enthused about, me included...

[DPG21920]

:lol The draft can't come fast enough... so many exasperated semantic disputes today on spurstalk.

Ya…being told I’m dumb because I said a front office is concerned mainly with draft/development, free agency and trades is literally the definition of semantics imo.

[mo7888]

Yup. And I clearly said they draft well and I’m optimistic. I just pointed out the reality we face within our division and that the clock starts now on making progress.

We do have challenges within our division.
Dallas has a clear cut star. I'm not confident their FO/owner can do much or is creative enough to do much. They have limited draft assets, limited personnel that are attractive to trade and limited cap space

Nola has a clear star player in Zion but he seems disgruntled earlier than AD was there. On the other hand their gm is creative and they have a few players that have value so they have a chance to make things happen.

Memphis has a clear #1, draft assets, and tradeable players. They are positioned well in my estimation.

Houston has the 2nd pick in the draft and...crickets... not much else...a dumpster fire of an owner... I have zero concerns that they will be a threat..

Spurs- good young players that have value on reasonable contracts, owns all their draft picks going forward, tons of cap space.... I think we are right in the mix IF we have a competent FO. I'm not ready to judge them yet though but, judgement day is coming and it's just over the hill.... between now and the end of free agency the questions regarding their competency will be answered and it won't be purely speculation anymore.

[R. DeMurre]

*shrugs*

(https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-reportedly-linked-to-free-agent-bigs)
“My spies say the Spurs have already been connected to some free-agent bigs, and that would be odd timing for a team that intends to pick a center. They already employ a big 7-footer in Jakob Poeltl, so they wouldn’t be forking out for another big unless they a) don’t plan on drafting one or b) think it’s still 1993.”


Perfect timing-- this is exactly what I mean when I say the perception of the Spurs from many non-fans is no longer one of awe, but one of "no one's really sure what they're doing."

[DPG21920]

We do have challenges within our division.
Dallas has a clear cut star. I'm not confident their FO/owner can do much or is creative enough to do much. They have limited draft assets, limited personnel that are attractive to trade and limited cap space

Nola has a clear star player in Zion but he seems disgruntled earlier than AD was there. On the other hand their gm is creative and they have a few players that have value so they have a chance to make things happen.

Memphis has a clear #1, draft assets, and tradeable players. They are positioned well in my estimation.

Houston has the 2nd pick in the draft and...crickets... not much else...a dumpster fire of an owner... I have zero concerns that they will be a threat..

Spurs- good young players that have value on reasonable contracts, owns all their draft picks going forward, tons of cap space.... I think we are right in the mix IF we have a competent FO. I'm not ready to judge them yet though but, judgement day is coming and it's just over the hill.... between now and the end of free agency the questions regarding their competency will be answered and it won't be purely speculation anymore.

Pretty much my feelings as well in a nut shell. I’m cautiously optimistic for 2 reasons: 1) SA didn’t mess up the cap space situation and clearly worked toward that. 2) ddr and rudy are gone and so is the crutch and any illusion of vets leading us to playoffs. Change is upon us / let’s see how they handle it.

[Mr. Body]

*shrugs*

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-reportedly-linked-to-free-agent-bigs (https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-reportedly-linked-to-free-agent-bigs)

The San Antonio Spurs are reportedly “connected to some free agent bigs” according to a report from The Athletic.

In his latest mock draft, John Hollinger selected big man Alperen Sengun for San Antonio with the 12th overall pick but was hesitant on the choice from the latest intel he heard from his sources.


“My spies say the Spurs have already been connected to some free-agent bigs, and that would be odd timing for a team that intends to pick a center. They already employ a big 7-footer in Jakob Poeltl, so they wouldn’t be forking out for another big unless they a) don’t plan on drafting one or b) think it’s still 1993.”

Smells like smokescreen, but I don't know why. I guess to discourage Orlando and Charlotte from biting, if Sengun is their interest. It does seem strange to have the San Antonio press comment on some random mock draft Hollinger made.

[SAGirl]

To be fair, I don't know of a single coach, scout, or reputable sportswriter who thought the double mid-range attack of Aldridge + DeRozan was going to succeed. Pretty much every mention of it for two years outside of the cheerleading fan realm was of the "we're not really sure what the Spurs are angling for here" variety... The draft is kind of the only think many have been enthused about, me included...
Exactly I am there too.

[mo7888]

Alex Antetokounmpo says the Spurs hosted him for a pre-draft workout.

The 19-year-old forward also worked out for the Pacers and Rockets.

Noah Magaro-George

[TD 21]

If the Warriors go Giddey at 7, the Grizzlies probably go Moody at 10, but if Moody gets to 12, but Sengun is gone, it might be worth it to pick him and offer Vassell and Walker IV to try to get Kuminga.



what if Luka has a breakout season and we add a John Collins in FA? Add in a draft pick like Sengun or Wagner and this team is competing for homecourt advantage in a couple years

A "breakout season" for Samanic would constitute his proving he's a definitive NBA player . . . and even with that and those other two things, they still wouldn't be going anywhere.

They actually might be worse off long term, because that might keep or make them just good enough again to be a treadmill team.

[JeffDuncan]

*shrugs*

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-reportedly-linked-to-free-agent-bigs (https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-reportedly-linked-to-free-agent-bigs)

The San Antonio Spurs are reportedly “connected to some free agent bigs” according to a report from The Athletic.

In his latest mock draft, John Hollinger selected big man Alperen Sengun for San Antonio with the 12th overall pick but was hesitant on the choice from the latest intel he heard from his sources.


“My spies say the Spurs have already been connected to some free-agent bigs, and that would be odd timing for a team that intends to pick a center. They already employ a big 7-footer in Jakob Poeltl, so they wouldn’t be forking out for another big unless they a) don’t plan on drafting one or b) think it’s still 1993.”


Nothing odd about it. It only sounds like Dieng won’t be back, so they’re shopping for a backup. A glance at the free agent list shows 28 centers who earned less than $5 M on their last contract. A good backup ought to be available, at a reasonable price.

The Spurs never expect anybody they draft to play much the first year. Anybody who imagines the Spurs would put a rookie big in the rotation just doesn’t know the Spurs. So drafting a big has nothing to do with it.

[4lifecowboy]

*shrugs*

https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-reportedly-linked-to-free-agent-bigs (https://news4sanantonio.com/sports/spurs-reportedly-linked-to-free-agent-bigs)

The San Antonio Spurs are reportedly “connected to some free agent bigs” according to a report from The Athletic.

In his latest mock draft, John Hollinger selected big man Alperen Sengun for San Antonio with the 12th overall pick but was hesitant on the choice from the latest intel he heard from his sources.


“My spies say the Spurs have already been connected to some free-agent bigs, and that would be odd timing for a team that intends to pick a center. They already employ a big 7-footer in Jakob Poeltl, so they wouldn’t be forking out for another big unless they a) don’t plan on drafting one or b) think it’s still 1993.”

Jarrett Allen would be a big win....

[Russ]

Jarrett Allen would be a big win....

Hard to argue with that.

[BacktoBasics]

Jarrett Allen would be a big win....

Doesn’t Allen want a max deal.

[BacktoBasics]

If the Warriors go Giddey at 7, the Grizzlies probably go Moody at 10, but if Moody gets to 12, but Sengun is gone, it might be worth it to pick him and offer Vassell and Walker IV to try to get Kuminga.

A "breakout season" for Samanic would constitute his proving he's a definitive NBA player . . . and even with that and those other two things, they still wouldn't be going anywhere.

They actually might be worse off long term, because that might keep or make them just good enough again to be a treadmill team. I think it’s way too early to package Vassell for a prospect in that tier. I think a lot of ST is sleeping on him. He had a good rookie year considering the vets on the roster. He’s already competent defensively and I think he has what it takes to make a Keldon like leap this coming season.

[4lifecowboy]

Doesn’t Allen want a max deal.

Rumor was Cleveland was gonna offer him towards 100 mil, but that was before draft, and before Evan Mobley was slotted to go there with the 3rd pick.

[TD 21]

I think it’s way too early to package Vassell for a prospect in that tier. I think a lot of ST is sleeping on him. He had a good rookie year considering the vets on the roster. He’s already competent defensively and I think he has what it takes to make a Keldon like leap this coming season.

I'm not. As I've said, I'd hate to lose the only young player (White doesn't qualify) virtually guaranteed to be a positive impact player on both sides of the ball, but the reality is 3 and D types need superstars/stars to play off of and they're actively trying to limit their odds of lucking into one.

If they can get a similar type in Moody, why not take a swing with an athletic, shot creating big wing? I'm a Kuminga skeptic, but prime Gay is feasible and would fit.

[tonight...you]

I still disagree here that FO is made up of three phases that you listed. They are all under one umbrella: roster construction. There are other umbrellas: player relations, coaching staff management, networking with other teams, agents, equipment at the facility, tech advancement, equipment management, scheduling, and a fuck ton more.

god i fucking regret switching to this phone. Can’t type for shit.
Mmm... I'm shopping for a new phone right now. Which one should I avoid?

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/Urbodo/status/1420137343596568579

[Degoat]

That’s definitely gonna hurt Garubas draft stock imo unless some team wants to stash him there for awhile

[K...]

The spurs can tank to get a top 5 pick any time they want. They can trade their young guys for a star. But they do not have to do anything. Gathering assets for a hard reset under a new coach is far far more reasonable that making a panic trade because spurstalk has a pissy fit they don't draft a star every year.

They DID draft a star and he forced his way out. That will happen more often than not and the writing is on the wall for Zion and Luka quitting on their teams. Building a deep high value team is the starting point for building around a star. panicking and churning like new orleans and Dallas is not. once you start churning it is hard to stop. It took Utah how long to recover from the loss of their HOF duo? The spurs are on year 2.

[CGD]

Do we think White/DJ+12+eating Wiggins contract gets Spurs 7?

[Dejounte]

Mmm... I'm shopping for a new phone right now. Which one should I avoid?

dont get an iphone

[Mr. Body]

Do we think White/DJ+12+eating Wiggins contract gets Spurs 7?

Jesus Christ man.

[SAGirl]

Do we think White/DJ+12+eating Wiggins contract gets Spurs 7?
Bad for the Spurs bc pick 7 is unlikely to be worth all that. They would be better off holding on to those assets to use them for a more sure thing (an established star player).

[CGD]

To be clear I mean one of DJ or White (not both).

[Teamduncan21]

To be clear I mean one of DJ or White (not both).

Wiggins alone should be worth the pick swap. Wiggins contract is bad

[4lifecowboy]

Do we think White/DJ+12+eating Wiggins contract gets Spurs 7?

If we are eating Wiggins, we keep the 12th pick.

[PhantomDashCam]

Slow news day.
Add it to the grain of salt pile.

https://www.nba.com/hornets/kupchak-hornets-finish-final-preparations-thursdays-2021-nba-draft

Kupchak, Hornets Finish Final Preparations for Thursday’s 2021 NBA Draft


“All the scouting was done via video and then the last three or four weeks, we’ve been bringing in probably close to 80 players into Charlotte for individual workouts,” said Kupchak during Monday morning’s pre-draft media availability. “You got to be careful that bringing them in doesn’t overly sway the way you look at a player and disregard what you watched [on video]. You can get a great feel for their athleticism, skill level. It’s helped quite a bit.”
...
“We’re not deep enough to be able to sustain an injury or two,” he said. “We’ve just got to add talent to this team. There is a player or two that are four-year guys that would be considered at 11, but most of the time at 11, you’re going to get someone very young. If it is a young player, [we’d like him] to be talented with great character that would fit in to what we’re trying to build here in Charlotte.”...
“We are going to look to take the best available talent,” added Kupchak. “If there are two players [at different positions] that are definitely equal in talent and skill level, then maybe we lean to a big because like I mentioned, that’s an area that there’s more uncertainty. We’re a little short in the backcourt and you could always use another wing. So, we would probably still continue to lean towards the best talent available, but at some point, if it’s real close, there will be some discussions based on need.”
...
“I think naturally the bar has been [raised],” Kupchak stated. “I think expectations are probably more this year coming up than they were last year. People expect more. I think our coaches and players expect more. We’ve got to keep it going. We’ve got a lot of flexibility with our cap and we’ve got three picks. Moving forward and continuing to improve, and hopefully, [we] contend for a playoff spot this year. Based on how we played last year, I would hope that we continue to improve and that we’re in the hunt.”

I think it comes down to four guys: Moody, Kispert, Isaiah Jackson and Kai Jones for the Hornets.

FWIW, They are rumored to be interested in Richaun Holmes in FA too and did draft two second round centers last year.

[Russ]

Do we think White/DJ+12+eating Wiggins contract gets Spurs 7?

How would you ever have confidence in this draft that whoever you wanted at 7 wouldn't be there at 12?

Not to mention that the trade, itself, is absurdly bad.

[FvckMavs]

Wiggins has $64m left for two years. Golden state is in tax hell right now($147million tax as it stands. Would be much more if they kept the 7 and 14 picks.)
If Spurs do decide to eat Wiggins’ salary, you don’t send either one of white/Murray AND 12 picks to help the warriors out.

[Mr. Body]

A trade aborsbing Wiggins' contract to move from 12 to 7 could be possible, but would require more on the Spurs' side. Not Murray or White though.

[jjspur]

A trade aborsbing Wiggins' contract to move from 12 to 7 could be possible, but would require more on the Spurs' side. Not Murray or White though.
I think that Memphis is trying to somehow get Golden State's #7. They made their earlier trade for a reason and I don't think it was to get just those two players from N.O. They tend to do a lot of trading during the draft and I can see them trying something like that, plus Golden State is trying to offload one or both of those picks. Just a hunch.

[Mr. Body]

I think that Memphis is trying to somehow get Golden State's #7. They made their earlier trade for a reason and I don't think it was to get just those two players from N.O. They tend to do a lot of trading during the draft and I can see them trying something like that, plus Golden State is trying to offload one or both of those picks. Just a hunch.

I've heard even higher, but that 7, too. Other teams are in play, driving the price up. I don't know if Memphis has what it takes to move too much, though.

[Thomas82]

I saw a mock draft from ESPN's Jonathan Givony that had the Spurs taking Jonathan Kuminga at 9.

[Mr. Body]

I saw a mock draft from ESPN's Jonathan Givony that had the Spurs taking Jonathan Kuminga at 9.

Well he sounds drunk.

[BackHome]

If I am eating Wiggins contract I am wanting the 7th and keeping our 12th pick for sure - I would throw in Derozz for Wiggins and there 7th and 15th pick - then trade a team for our 12th or 15th pick for year 2022 or 23

[Mr. Body]

If I am eating Wiggins contract I am wanting the 7th and keeping our 12th pick for sure - I would throw in Derozz for Wiggins and there 7th and 15th pick - then trade a team for our 12th or 15th pick for year 2022 or 23

You can't do these things. You know that, right?

[Uriel]

Does anyone know around what time the 12th pick will be on draft day? Just trying to plan out my Thursday night.

[rjv]

NBA TV's mock had Spurs selecting Cam Thomas. Rex Chapman made the pick but he just kept picking SEC players.

[BackHome]

You can't do these things. You know that, right?

Don't kill my dream...lol

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/34CA9DfoiSI

i still dont understand how EVERY prospect except Franz is okay with revealing which teams they’ve worked out for. EVERY prospect. Franz must want to really go to that team bad. But why?

[Uriel]

Does anyone know around what time the 12th pick will be on draft day? Just trying to plan out my Thursday night.
If the draft starts at 8:00 PM, I was estimating the Spurs would be picking at 9:00 PM. Is that a reasonable estimate?

[tbdog]

I'm reading that this his draft is a 4 player draft. After that it's up in the air. The difference between 12 and 7 isn't steep.

[NASpurs]

If the draft starts at 8:00 PM, I was estimating the Spurs would be picking at 9:00 PM. Is that a reasonable estimate?

They’ll probably go to commercials while the Spurs picked is called so you won’t miss much.

[exstatic]

If I am eating Wiggins contract I am wanting the 7th and keeping our 12th pick for sure - I would throw in Derozz for Wiggins and there 7th and 15th pick - then trade a team for our 12th or 15th pick for year 2022 or 23
They don’t want salary back. That is the purpose to sending assets WITH Wiggins. Try to think of trades using those parameters.

[jjspur]

Does anyone know around what time the 12th pick will be on draft day? Just trying to plan out my Thursday night.
You know what's funny, in several drafts I've noticed that right when its the spurs turn to pick, they go to a commercial break. I know it happens to other teams, but it happens to the spurs a lot. Coincidence ?

[Dejounte]

Not very long now

[tonight...you]

dont get an iphone
Word.
Appreciated.

[bluebellmaniac]

If the draft starts at 8:00 PM, I was estimating the Spurs would be picking at 9:00 PM. Is that a reasonable estimate?

8 pm ET... So 7 pm CT...

[bluebellmaniac]

1 Day until the Draft!... 1 Day and 8 hrs actually...

5 Days until Free Agency!

[Degoat]

From SI latest intel…

“As previously reported here, the Spurs have angled to move up in the draft and into the top 10. It’s worth noting they have historically been content to stand pat on draft night. The Spurs have spent the past few years developing their young perimeter players, and Keldon Johnson in particular looks like a keeper, but it’s been rumored that they aren’t necessarily attached at the hip to players like Dejounte Murray and Lonnie Walker. In this scenario they go best-available and select Moody, whose range begins at No. 8 and ends at No. 15 or so.”

[SAGirl]

https://youtu.be/34CA9DfoiSI

i still dont understand how EVERY prospect except Franz is okay with revealing which teams they’ve worked out for. EVERY prospect. Franz must want to really go to that team bad. But why?
This is a courting process a lot of it even talked about with the agent who is looking to land the player in the best situation for them, where they will get the most playing time, and opportunity to highlight their skills, etc.

He could be concealing special workouts he’s had in private because he may be part of a trade. Since that trade may not occur they will have asked him to keep things to himself. He knows who has interest in him, but not whether trades will happen in the end, etc.

[timvp]

Wagner having a promise to the Warriors at 7 makes a lot of sense, IMO. As a win-now piece for Golden State, Wagner is a strong fit. He gives them talented size they've been missing and someone who doesn't need the ball to make an impact. From Wagner's perspective, he was unlikely to go in the top 6 and would be going to a really good situation, so it would have been a no-brainer to accept the promise.

A promise to the Kings at 9? Yeah, no, that'd be hard to believe. The Kings settling for a low ceiling player way before the draft and Wagner going to the Kings on purpose are both unlikely.

[John B]

8 pm ET... So 7 pm CT...
Damn it’s my kid’s blackbelt ceremony. Guess we’ll just drop by at the master’s house to get it :lol

[rankingtear]

Wagner worked out for 7-10. Givony said on a podcast. Lowe post i think.

[The Truth #6]

Wagner having a promise to the Warriors at 7 makes a lot of sense, IMO. As a win-now piece for Golden State, Wagner is a strong fit. He gives them talented size they've been missing and someone who doesn't need the ball to make an impact. From Wagner's perspective, he was unlikely to go in the top 6 and would be going to a really good situation, so it would have been a no-brainer to accept the promise.

A promise to the Kings at 9? Yeah, no, that'd be hard to believe. The Kings settling for a low ceiling player way before the draft and Wagner going to the Kings on purpose are both unlikely.

That makes way more sense, assuming GS doesn’t trade the pick.

[pad300]

Damn it’s my kid’s blackbelt ceremony. Guess we’ll just drop by at the master’s house to get it :lol

Dude! Go to your kid's ceremony, nothing you do will affect the draft results and you can read about it on spurstalk later...

[Dejounte]

Dude! Go to your kid's ceremony, nothing you do will affect the draft results and you can read about it on spurstalk later...


he will miss the real time epic meltdown in the draft thread

[pad300]

he will miss the real time epic meltdown in the draft thread

Once you've seen one epic spurstalk meltdown, you've seen them all. The draft meltdown is an annual event, happens every year.

[The Truth #6]

Who will we leave on the board that infuriates part of the fanbase? I’m guessing either Kai or Sengun.

[SAGirl]

Wagner having a promise to the Warriors at 7 makes a lot of sense, IMO. As a win-now piece for Golden State, Wagner is a strong fit. He gives them talented size they've been missing and someone who doesn't need the ball to make an impact. From Wagner's perspective, he was unlikely to go in the top 6 and would be going to a really good situation, so it would have been a no-brainer to accept the promise.

A promise to the Kings at 9? Yeah, no, that'd be hard to believe. The Kings settling for a low ceiling player way before the draft and Wagner going to the Kings on purpose are both unlikely.
I wonder the degree to which the win now mode is dissuading these prospects from GSW, in secret tbh. Coach Kerr basically threw Wiseman under the bus for good reason, but still. He was rumored to be traded even before being picked and his first season aside from being disappointing for a 1st round draft pick has him already rumored to be in trades again. He’s under immense pressure to develop quickly to fit a timeline that’s not his own. All these guys aren’t ready for that pressure which is why I think GSW is expected to make some move. It’s not about the future for them.

And these guys can’t be assured that they won’t be ditched after getting drafted for some win now move. That’s just how it is. I wouldn’t necessarily want to be drafted there for that reason, even after giving them the lip service of admiring their team, etc.

They have always been rumored to flip 7 for a win now player and keep 14. Anyways this is all speculation based on some reports. They may very well keep the pick bc they love Franz or Giddey or someone else like Bouknight.

I wonder if you missed an article I posted about how Halliburton and his agent really dissuaded other teams higher up in the draft from drafting him. He wanted to go to Sacramento bc they sold him in his fit, development, role etc.

Its not that cut and dried.

There are rumors swirling with Beal, and others around the league it’s possible that pick is going to the Wizards after all for example…

[timvp]

I wonder if you missed an article I posted about how Halliburton and his agent really dissuaded other teams higher up in the draft from drafting him. He wanted to go to Sacramento bc they sold him in his fit, development, role etc.

Eh, that rumor turned out to be BS. I think it was Givony who spread that rumor (if we're discussing the same rumor). The Kings were Haliburton's floor but he didn't angle is way to Sacramento: https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/mpln84/tyrese_haliburton_on_draft_day_i_thought_i_could/

[SAGirl]

Eh, that rumor turned out to be BS. I think it was Givony who spread that rumor (if we're discussing the same rumor). The Kings were Haliburton's floor but he didn't angle is way to Sacramento: https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/mpln84/tyrese_haliburton_on_draft_day_i_thought_i_could/
No I posted an article from a local news station in Sacramento tbh.

[look_at_g_shred]

IF we stay at #12..we are gonna get someone good. I can see any of the following available:

Jalen Johnson
Kai
Giddey
Moses
Wagner
Sengun
Keon
Bouknight

Last year's draft there was what 1-3 good scenarios?

[look_at_g_shred]

Once you've seen one epic spurstalk meltdown, you've seen them all. The draft meltdown is an annual event, happens every year.
Its a glorious event. insert the Will Ferrell GIF from Zoolander..."Dear God...it's beautiful"

[look_at_g_shred]

Who will we leave on the board that infuriates part of the fanbase? I’m guessing either Kai or Sengun.
Imagine us passing up wagner too lmao

[mo7888]

I wonder the degree to which the win now mode is dissuading these prospects from GSW, in secret tbh. Coach Kerr basically threw Wiseman under the bus for good reason, but still. He was rumored to be traded even before being picked and his first season aside from being disappointing for a 1st round draft pick has him already rumored to be in trades again. He’s under immense pressure to develop quickly to fit a timeline that’s not his own. All these guys aren’t ready for that pressure which is why I think GSW is expected to make some move. It’s not about the future for them.

And these guys can’t be assured that they won’t be ditched after getting drafted for some win now move. That’s just how it is. I wouldn’t necessarily want to be drafted there for that reason, even after giving them the lip service of admiring their team, etc.

They have always been rumored to flip 7 for a win now player and keep 14. Anyways this is all speculation based on some reports. They may very well keep the pick bc they love Franz or Giddey or someone else like Bouknight.

I wonder if you missed an article I posted about how Halliburton and his agent really dissuaded other teams higher up in the draft from drafting him. He wanted to go to Sacramento bc they sold him in his fit, development, role etc.

Its not that cut and dried.

There are rumors swirling with Beal, and others around the league it’s possible that pick is going to the Wizards after all for example…

If they are really enamored with someone at 7 maybe they have a deal somewhere to package Wiseman + 14 with Wiggins for cap relief or a player that offers 'some' cap relief.

[SAGirl]

If they are really enamored with someone at 7 maybe they have a deal somewhere to package Wiseman + 14 with Wiggins for cap relief or a player that offers 'some' cap relief.
My personal guess from reading between the lines is that there is a deal in place and its not some salary dump/cap relief. They likely have made offers for the disgruntled stars out there, and if there is a trade it will happen on draft night. I don’t know that there is a bid for the 7th necessarily. Grizzlies have the highest rumors to want to trade up but who knows if it is for 7. I am now wondering that they want Mobley, and not some of the rumors that are swirling around, but they have to be comfortable with picking at 10 if they can’t trade higher for example. There are many other teams interested in trading up, and a few stars that want out. My guess is that the trade is likely with the Wizards for Beal. GSW sends Wiggins as $ ballast, and maybe Wiseman and 7th plus a future pick. Wizards to jumpstart their rebuild likely prefer the higher, not the lower pick, they may even want both.

There was a rumor on twitter that Grizzlies offered Dillon Brooks in exchange for Beal. I imagine picks would be attached, and that the offer was rejected bc Winslow was included for salary matching. Bledsoe would be ballast in a different hypothetical offer. There are things happening behind closed doors that we can only speculate about, but projecting GSW is the riskiest bc IMO they are likely to move one or both picks in some kind of win now move.

I haven’t even mentioned Simmons bc who knows what’s going on there. The rumor is Morey is waiting for the expected Lillard trade request. Incidentally, I heard that NOLA is also interested in both Beal and Lillard… so who knows.

Final point is that if there is a bidding war, obviously GSW can’t get stingy with their assets, bu their move isn’t IMO as narrow as shedding salary. It’s never been about that or they never would have asked Durant to do the sign and trade. This is the only way they have to improve their roster. Worry about shedding salary if Curry’s ankles fall off a cliff basically.

[timvp]

No I posted an article from a local news station in Sacramento tbh.

Got a link?

Those quotes in what I posted are from Haliburton himself but I guess it's possible there's something more to the story.

[cd98]

Dude! Go to your kid's ceremony, nothing you do will affect the draft results and you can read about it on spurstalk later...

No joke. We all know how this goes. The day before and the day of, anyone that we consider drafting are highly criticized to the point we don't want to draft anyone and trade the pick for next year. Then, once drafted, Spurstalk will be flooded with articles about how this was who the Spurs wanted all along and fluff pieces to get everyone optimistic. There will be youtube clips and lots of line up speculations....and then the player will spend the year in the G- League.

[timvp]

he will miss the real time epic meltdown in the draft thread

Tbh, this is one reason I put Kispert first. The meltdown if the Spurs pick him would be pretty epic, especially if the Senguns and Giddeys are on the board :lol

[Dejounte]

Tbh, this is one reason I put Kispert first. The meltdown if the Spurs pick him would be pretty epic, especially if the Senguns and Giddeys are on the board :lol


cue the whack-a-mole trolls who only show up when things aren’t good— screaming for attention, calling out people they disagree with (it’s like yelling at the sky) and wanting so badly to be acknowledged :lmao

[Thomas82]

Well he sounds drunk.

Sounds like it to me too.

[jjspur]

I think we are making this way too complicated. Other teams may do trades inside the top 11 and I truly expect some to be made just not by the spurs. That's been their history. it might change but probably won't. Which ever player hasn't been selected is who we will take.
I gave up trying to figure out how the spurs will draft because it doesn't always make sense or pan out. I can hear it already, "they drafted a guard - but we need rebounding or they drafted for rebounding but he can't shoot a three pointer or make free throws" or this is a popular one "he's a project who's two years away". Whoever they draft will stir up some controversy with some people. I'm just getting ready for all the #@#$% opinions that will surely be flying tomorrow. After that it will be free agency....that should really be interesting.

[SpurSpike]

"According to Jeremy Woo of Sports Illustrated, the Spurs would like to move into the top 10. However, they could very well stick with the 12th overall selection"

[Joseph Kony]

"According to Jeremy Woo of Sports Illustrated, the Spurs would like to move into the top 10. However, they could very well stick with the 12th overall selection"

this is the most throwaway comment of all time. :lol this could be said of literally any team sitting outside of the top 10. Thanks Jeremy Woo for the insight :tu

[Mr. Body]

Tbh, this is one reason I put Kispert first. The meltdown if the Spurs pick him would be pretty epic, especially if the Senguns and Giddeys are on the board :lol

Prolly the same people who want to break the bank or trade multiple players for Duncan Robinson.

[rjv]

"According to Jeremy Woo of Sports Illustrated, the Spurs would like to move into the top 10. However, they could very well stick with the 12th overall selection"

woo is really going out on a limb here.

[K...]

we don't really have anything to warrant a trade up. vassel and johnson might get close, but there is no contract worth trading two useful players. A future first A la dallas for luka might fly, is there a luka level talent?

[PhantomDashCam]

https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/1420490693383008263?s=20

Obi going to be a hornet? Would fit pretty well there I would think...

[Mr. Body]

https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/1420490693383008263?s=20

Obi going to be a hornet? Would fit pretty well there I would think...

Duarte is a good pick for the Knicks, I feel. Would give up a lot for him, though. If Charlotte trades down, excellent news for the Spurs. And I think it's smart for Charlotte, too: if they want Jackson or Kai Jones or any big, it feels better not reaching at the 11 slot.

[timvp]

Duarte at 12 for the lols.

[Mugen]

How opposing GMs aren't lining up to fleece Brian Wrong and Jerry Sloanovich is beyond me tbh :lol

[mo7888]

https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/1420490693383008263?s=20

Obi going to be a hornet? Would fit pretty well there I would think...

Obi + 19 + 21 or even 19 + 21 + 2023 1st would be pretty tempting unless someone we really coveted fell.

[tonight...you]

Damn it’s my kid’s blackbelt ceremony. Guess we’ll just drop by at the master’s house to get it :lol
You make jokes!

Tell Sensei Miyagi that his clapped hands shit never works.
Freaking bullshit artist.

[toki9]

Got a link?

Those quotes in what I posted are from Haliburton himself but I guess it's possible there's something more to the story.

Maybe this? https://www.sacbee.com/sports/article247300064.html

But it's Givony and Lowe talking about it. Much of it reads like speculation, but who knows?

And then there is this, which kind of sounds like Haliburton is deflecting that question a bit. Again, who knows? https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/video/why-tyrese-haliburton-wanted-be-drafted-sacramento-kings

But the way Halliburton answered the question on that video makes it seem like that he and his agent did not explicitly tell any team to not draft him, but they sure could have made it known where they wanted to go. So if you're a team like the Spurs--who were just burned by Kawhi, is he worth the trouble, particularly since Vassell was right there to take?

[exstatic]

https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/1420490693383008263?s=20

Obi going to be a hornet? Would fit pretty well there I would think...

Toppin is a stiff. If they included him, I’d ask for another first rounder to take his salary.

[PhantomDashCam]

Toppin is a stiff. If they included him, I’d ask for another first rounder to take his salary.

I'm by no means an Obi Toppin guy but I don't like writing rookies off after one year, even one at an advanced age for such.

His style of play, theoretically, fits the Hornets current core too.

If you feel you can grab your guy at 19, this would be hard to turn down for Charlotte.

[SAGirl]

Got a link?

Those quotes in what I posted are from Haliburton himself but I guess it's possible there's something more to the story.
Have to scroll back a bit, but I’ll link you to it when found.

edit: I hadn’t seen but A post above but do believe it was similar or the same I posted. You aren’t going to find a definitive admission, the smoking gun.

[Chomag]

Don't kid ourselves folks we know Spurs FO ain't doing crap other then drafting the number they habe by default.

[Mr. Body]

Wasserman seems to be hearing a lot of chatter about Ziaire Williams to Orlando at #8. Seems a bit crazy to me, but he has potential. If Charlotte trades down and Orlando goes for Ziaire, this would wipe out two of the biggest suitors in the Sengun sweepstakes... that is, if the Spurs have any interest whatsoever.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://youtu.be/ioqfeFmRqXM
https://twitter.com/NBADraft/status/1420504344798040066?s=20

Giddey giving off Anakin Skywalker vibes.
GSW confirmed. :lol

[Uriel]

Once you've seen one epic spurstalk meltdown, you've seen them all. The draft meltdown is an annual event, happens every year.
When was the last time SpursTalk didn't melt down and actually got excited about a draft selection? Lonnie Walker? Dejounte Murray?

[objective]

When was the last time SpursTalk didn't melt down and actually got excited about a draft selection? Lonnie Walker? Dejounte Murray?

Blair

[Mugen]

When was the last time SpursTalk didn't melt down and actually got excited about a draft selection? Lonnie Walker? Dejounte Murray?


Blair

I liked the Lonnie pick a lot tbh, still do when he's tearing it up for another team in a few years :lol

[BacktoBasics]

Blair

One of the few players the Spurs screwed up. I’m usually all on board with how we develop our talent but that could have been a lot better and by the time he got out of SA he was ruined.

[paperboy77]

I hope they get Franz Wagner. If not Kai, Keon, Jalen then Bouknight.

Hoping we trade DD + Lonnie for a higher pick + decent player.

[pad300]

When was the last time SpursTalk didn't melt down and actually got excited about a draft selection? Lonnie Walker? Dejounte Murray?


Blair

I think Kyle Anderson was relatively well recieved - he'd been projected in the Top 5 that year IIRC.

[Chinook]

One of the few players the Spurs screwed up. I’m usually all on board with how we develop our talent but that could have been a lot better and by the time he got out of SA he was ruined.

It didn't help that his body failed him. But Blair's inability to develop any range basically meant he was a small center whose legs couldn't take the wear and tear they needed to for his style of play to work. He had his place, but Dallas using him as basically found money every game was about the only way he could be productive, and he just wasn't going to be that guy in SA for similar reasons why Murray won't be the guard version of Draymond he could be on another club.

[John B]

You make jokes!

Tell Sensei Miyagi that his clapped hands shit never works.
Freaking bullshit artist.

People here are tight ass tense. Of course I’m not missing my kid’s blackbelt for anything… Geez :lol

[SAGirl]

I think Kyle Anderson was relatively well recieved - he'd been projected in the Top 5 that year IIRC.
I loved Kyle, Dejounte, and Vassell.

I didn’t know anything about White when he was drafted, but liked him almost immediately when I watched him play. Lonnie was wow-worthy even if I also didn’t know anything about him beforehand.

Honestly only Samanic as of late has underwhelmed me. I am not in favor of guys that are going to need 2+ years to get on the court. I understand the younger the guy is the more time he needs, but I am not that patient.

[PhantomDashCam]

Wasserman seems to be hearing a lot of chatter about Ziaire Williams to Orlando at #8. Seems a bit crazy to me, but he has potential. If Charlotte trades down and Orlando goes for Ziaire, this would wipe out two of the biggest suitors in the Sengun sweepstakes... that is, if the Spurs have any interest whatsoever.

Interesting footwear choice…

https://twitter.com/NBADraft/status/1420538310502588419?s=20

[exstatic]

One of the few players the Spurs screwed up. I’m usually all on board with how we develop our talent but that could have been a lot better and by the time he got out of SA he was ruined.

His knees were a pair of ticking time bombs. By the time he left, they were bone on bone.

[objective]

One of the few players the Spurs screwed up. I’m usually all on board with how we develop our talent but that could have been a lot better and by the time he got out of SA he was ruined.

His agent screwed up. He should have pulled a KJ McDaniels or at most a 2 year deal. Then he should have been able to score 1 decent payday.

Instead the Spurs worked him over and squeezed 4 years on the minimum and his knees were done as he whataburgered his way into tiny deals and he was done.

[Eaglenole2002]

When was the last time SpursTalk didn't melt down and actually got excited about a draft selection? Lonnie Walker? Dejounte Murray?


I’m far from a regular in here, but people weren’t really excited about Vassell? Was it because they passed on Halliburton?

[SpurPadre]

Interesting footwear choice…

https://twitter.com/NBADraft/status/1420538310502588419?s=20

Not falling for that again. Last year, Wiseman was wearing silver and black colors with people claiming that was a sign we were trading up to get him.

[SpurPadre]

I’m far from a regular in here, but people weren’t really excited about Vassell? Was it because they passed on Halliburton?

Because it was considered a very weak draft class.

[Dejounte]

Is it just me or does this fool look like Nephew?

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/draft-prospect-isaiah-jackson-poses-for-portraits-during-media-and-picture-id1234270925?s=2048x2048

[Dejounte]

SILVER AND BLACK SHOES! UH OHhttps://media.gettyimages.com/photos/draft-prospect-chris-duarte-poses-for-portraits-during-media-and-as-picture-id1234270624?s=2048x2048

[bluebellmaniac]

Is it just me or does this fool look like Nephew?

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/draft-prospect-isaiah-jackson-poses-for-portraits-during-media-and-picture-id1234270925?s=2048x2048

Exactly what I thought before I read what you wrote.

[Dejounte]

Best dressed… James Bouknight
runner up… Kai Jones

Worst dressed… Moses Moody. The fuck you wearing, bro
runner up… Jalen Johnson

[Chomag]

Sorry but if Scottie Barnes is still available at a pick spurs can realistically move up for then I hope they would do it, dude is going to be a stud!

[CGD]

My gut tells me the Turkish kid will still be around at 12, and that’s who we get. The other international kids folks are busting nuts over will be gone, as will Moody who other really enjoy too. I’m bothered that draft boards have us picking Kai Jones, that seems like a waste at 12.

[ginobilized]

SILVER AND BLACK SHOES! UH OHhttps://media.gettyimages.com/photos/draft-prospect-chris-duarte-poses-for-portraits-during-media-and-as-picture-id1234270624?s=2048x2048

Might be onto something. Those shoes sure don’t match his jacket.
He’s be an awesome Spur.

[slick'81]

SILVER AND BLACK SHOES! UH OHhttps://media.gettyimages.com/photos/draft-prospect-chris-duarte-poses-for-portraits-during-media-and-as-picture-id1234270624?s=2048x2048

that shit is too damn obvious:lol ill buy into the dejounte hype now

[BacktoBasics]

Sorry but if Scottie Barnes is still available at a pick spurs can realistically move up for then I hope they would do it, dude is going to be a stud!

This is my dream pick. He's outta reach though. I don't want to fantasize about him being a Spur.

[Marco]

Tankathon has us taking Usman Garuba...

[LCM]

If Kuminga drops, and is on the board at 7, which he very well could be, would you want the Spurs to make a run at him?

I think Toronto chooses Barnes at 4 (opens up Siakam trade possibilities), Orlando would take Bouknight at 5 (Fournier replacement), Suggs drops to OKC at 6 ... That leaves Kuminga at 7.

If you are the Warriors, and a Wizards/Beal trade can't be made, would you talk to the Raptors for Siakam or consider a package of Murray, Walker, 12th pick (Duarte/Kispert) for Wiggins and 7th pick (Kuminga)?? Then the Spurs focus on Markkanen in FA instead of Collins for the stretch 4/small ball 5. Wiggins contract is only 2 years, so cap space for FA 2023 class won't be affected.

This is going to be an interesting draft!!