Official San Antonio Spurs 2021 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/1379281408041095168?s=19

Giddey jumping all the way to #9 on this one.

Called another one :lmao :lmao

[duncan2150]

https://i.ibb.co/nmG8qQf/draft.png

Only eight teams in the NBA have true franchise players who have stayed with them.
75% of these players were drafted in the top 10.
Remaining 25% of these players were drafted after the 14th pick.

Seven teams currently have borderline franchise players.
Of these borderline franchise players, 37.5% of them were drafted in the top 12 of the lottery.
The remaining 62.5% were drafted after.

Keep in mind: a lot of these teams have drafted in the top 10 for a very long time.

True franchise players don't grow on trees.


Good point, i will add Dearon Fox as a borderline FP for sure.

So if we go with FP or bordeline FP more than half of the franchise have them with the draft. That's the better way to get one.

[rankingtear]

I was reading up on Aaron Nesmith and what's going on with him and found this:

"This is pretty par for the course for Brad. I think he takes a very college approach of: if he doesn't think you're ready he really won't play you, or definitely not with regularity. He definitely seems to avoid a lot of "developmental minutes" I'd say.
 
Jaylen was a top 3 pick and averaged 17mpg as a rookie. Rozier is probably the best comp for any of these guys. He averaged 8mpg as a rookie and had tons of DNPs (and most of those minutes came towards the end of the season). The next season he was up to 17mpg and then obviously exploded in the playoffs. Ultimately, I think this is how Brad likes to bring in young players. I don't think it is necessarily a huge reflection on Nesmith other than this is how Brad thinks he can best get him ready for the league?"

Sound familiar?

Terry Stotts also an infamous don't play rookies coach. Portland don't even have their own G-League.

[FutureMan]

https://i.ibb.co/nmG8qQf/draft.png

Only eight teams in the NBA have true franchise players who have stayed with them.
75% of these players were drafted in the top 10.
Remaining 25% of these players were drafted after the 14th pick.

Seven teams currently have borderline franchise players.
Of these borderline franchise players, 37.5% of them were drafted in the top 12 of the lottery.
The remaining 62.5% were drafted after.

Keep in mind: a lot of these teams have drafted in the top 10 for a very long time.

True franchise players don't grow on trees.


I’d disagree with Towns, Booker, Mitchell, & Young. They are their teams franchise players.

I’d also add Beal for the Wizards.

For “boarder line” franchise you can add Fox for Sacramento, Gilchrist Alexander for the Thunder, and Siakum for Toronto (even helped win their only ring).

Basically, we are on pace to look like the Cavs, Pistons, Magic, And Rockets.

[Dejounte]

I’d disagree with Towns, Booker, Mitchell, & Young. They are their teams franchise players.

I’d also add Beal for the Wizards.

For “boarder line” franchise you can add Fox for Sacramento, Gilchrist Alexander for the Thunder, and Siakum for Toronto (even helped win their only ring).

Basically, we are on pace to look like the Cavs, Pistons, Magic, And Rockets.

Are they the team's franchise player because they have no choice?

Would anybody build around Donovan Mitchell?

Trae Young is debatable, sure.

Towns has had six years to carry his team. Are the T-Wolves organization just that bad?

I indeed missed out on SGA, Fox, Beal, and Siakam as borderline franchise players.

[mo7888]

Are they the team's franchise player because they have no choice?

Would anybody build around Donovan Mitchell?

Trae Young is debatable, sure.

Towns has had six years to carry his team. Are the T-Wolves organization just that bad?

I indeed missed out on SGA, Fox, Beal, and Siakam as borderline franchise players.


Would anybody build around Donovan Mitchell?

Yes

Towns has had six years to carry his team. Are the T-Wolves organization just that bad?

Yes

[Dejounte]

Would anybody build around Donovan Mitchell?

Yes

Towns has had six years to carry his team. Are the T-Wolves organization just that bad?

Yes

I suppose so... I guess the way I also look at it is that the true franchise players like Giannis, Jokic, Curry, Doncic all cast a big shadow on a guy like Mitchell. To me, they should be a household name. When I think Utah Jazz, I don't immediately think Mitchell. I think instead, "That's a good team". I'll revise the table in a little bit.

[mo7888]

I suppose so... I guess the way I also look at it is that the true franchise players like Giannis, Jokic, Curry, Doncic all cast a big shadow on a guy like Mitchell. To me, they should be a household name. When I think Utah Jazz, I don't immediately think Mitchell. I think instead, "That's a good team". I'll revise the table in a little bit.

I get where you're coming from... guys like Jokic and Embiid are definitely better players but, 2/3 of the league would love to build around a DM as their franchise guy... he'd probably have a bigger shadow if he wasn't in Utah as well..

[Russ]

https://i.ibb.co/nmG8qQf/draft.png

Only eight teams in the NBA have true franchise players who have stayed with them.
75% of these players were drafted in the top 10.
Remaining 25% of these players were drafted after the 14th pick.

Seven teams currently have borderline franchise players.
Of these borderline franchise players, 37.5% of them were drafted in the top 12 of the lottery.
The remaining 62.5% were drafted after.

Keep in mind: a lot of these teams have drafted in the top 10 for a very long time.

True franchise players don't grow on trees.

If the standard is can they be "the best player on a championship team," the only sure franchise player above is Curry.

And I don't think there are any in the upcoming draft.

So it's a tough road, this NBA.

[FutureMan]

Are they the team's franchise player because they have no choice?

Would anybody build around Donovan Mitchell?

Trae Young is debatable, sure.

Towns has had six years to carry his team. Are the T-Wolves organization just that bad?

I indeed missed out on SGA, Fox, Beal, and Siakam as borderline franchise players.

If team success is the grounds for your rankings then remove Williamson.

Everyone has different opinions on how to define a franchise player. For me it is who is selling tickets. Who is the person the crowd goes wild for when they announce that player for the starting lineup.

BTW it looks like you are irrationally against Mitchell for some reason. They did build a team around him and they have the third best chance to win it all this year. Even though Booker only has a 5% chance of winning it is still worlds better than most teams.

[pad300]

As a metric for "true franchise player", I would suggest not being far removed (either on the upslope or downslope) of being a realistic MVP candidate. This sorts people like Mitchell and Gobert into the Borderline category quite nicely. Neither of them will ever be a serious MVP candidate (Gobert not enough O, Mitchell just not good enough by offense only candidate standards).

[TD 21]

Franchise players: Durant, Harden, Doncic, Jokic, Curry, Scumbag, Davis, James, Antetokounmpo, Durant, Williamson, Embiid, Lillard.

8/13 or 61.5% were top 5 picks, two others were just outside and only two were non lottery picks (one being Scumbag, who went one pick outside of it).

Borderline (literally, aged out or trending in the direction): Young, Irving, Tatum, Ball, George, Morant, Adebayo, Butler, Towns, Ingram, Gilgeous-Alexander, Simmons, Booker, Paul, Fox, Gobert, Mitchell, Beal.

11/18 or 61.1% were top 5 picks, two others were just outside and only one was a non lottery pick.

Essentially, you either draft minimally the upper half of the lottery or you're basically hoping to find a needle in a haystack. No matter prior luck/success, deploying that strategy is obviously foolish and arrogant.

[Dejounte]

Franchise players: Durant, Harden, Doncic, Jokic, Curry, Scumbag, Davis, James, Antetokounmpo, Durant, Williamson, Embiid, Lillard.

8/13 or 61.5% were top 5 picks, two others were just outside and only two were non lottery picks (one being Scumbag, who went one pick outside of it).

Borderline (literally, aged out or trending in the direction): Young, Irving, Tatum, Ball, George, Morant, Adebayo, Butler, Towns, Ingram, Gilgeous-Alexander, Simmons, Booker, Paul, Fox, Gobert, Mitchell, Beal.

11/18 or 61.1% were top 5 picks, two others were just outside and only one was a non lottery pick.

Essentially, you either draft in minimally the upper half of the lottery or you're essentially hoping to find a needle in a haystack. No matter prior luck/success, deploying that strategy is obviously foolish and arrogant.

TD, I appreciate you for basically repeating what I said but in different words. :flag:

To add to that though:
LeBron James, 2003
Kevin Durant, 2007
Stephen Curry, Harden, 2009
Kawhi Leonard, 2011
Anthony Davis, Damien Lillard 2012
Giannis, 2013
Jokic, Embiid 2014
Luka Doncic, 2018
Zion, 2019

So 12 "active" franchise players in 2021 since 2003 (18 years).

Even if you are drafting in the upper half, it is still difficult to find that franchise player. (Don't read what I'm NOT saying. I agree it is much easier to find a franchise player in the upper half)

IMO, Cade will join this list and he may be the only one.

[BackHome]

Hey Dejounte what do you think of Vrenz Bleijenbergh a SF - 6'10 for our second round pick?

[ace3g]

For those Giddy for Giddey

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1096493252067364864/_1GtAopo_normal.jpg
Alex Kennedy AlexKennedyNBA
(https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA) Mar 27 (https://twitter.com/AlexKennedyNBA/status/1375955564111527941)
Meet Josh Giddey, an 18-year-old, ambidextrous, 6'8 point guard who plays professionally in Australia's @NBL (https://twitter.com/NBL/). "There is a good chance I'll be declaring for the 2021 draft," @joshgiddey (https://twitter.com/joshgiddey/) told @MattBabcock11 (https://twitter.com/MattBabcock11/). Check out his exclusive Q&A with @basketbllnews (https://twitter.com/basketbllnews/): basketballnews.com/stories/nbl-ad… (https://t.co/hlnh3qBjIe)

[SpurPadre]

With the Bulls winning today, we're now 3.5 games back of getting the 9th slot in the draft.

[Dejounte]

With the Bulls winning today, we're now 3.5 games back of getting the 9th slot in the draft.

The Bulls are expected to pass us up with their acquisition of Vucevic.

The Pelicans keep losing. It does not look like they'll pass us up at all.

The top 8 teams look locked tight unless the Spurs lose all games the rest of the way.

[Dejounte]

Hey Dejounte what do you think of Vrenz Bleijenbergh a SF - 6'10 for our second round pick?

Without more signs of advanced ball handling, I think he'll be more of a Bertans-type even with the flashy passing he displays sometimes. As a 2nd rounder, that's not a bad ceiling.

[SpurPadre]

The Bulls are expected to pass us up with their acquisition of Vucevic.

The Pelicans keep losing. It does not look like they'll pass us up at all.

The top 8 teams look locked tight unless the Spurs lose all games the rest of the way.

Yeah, getting 8th or better is a pipe dream but 9th is still a possibility. Kings are playing better too at 10th pick now, where we're also 3.5 games back. Getting to 9th gives us a tangible shot at top 4 lottery and a sliver of a shot at winning the lottery.

[Dejounte]

Let's see...

Which prospects are locked in the top 6 or whatever? Who will fall like Haliburton and Obi Toppin of last year?

Cade, Mobley will for sure be in the top 3.

Suggs, Kuminga, and Green likely to go top 5.

I see Jalen Johnson falling because of his character issues.

Kispert's advanced metrics are superb, but will he really be drafted in the top 10?

I feel Barnes will remain in the top 10. Someone will fall in love with his athleticism.

1. Cade
2. Mobley
3. Suggs
4. Kuminga
5. Green
6. Barnes
7. ?
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?

[SpurPadre]

Spurs tank watch update: we're now 3 games back of the 9th slot in the draft.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/W1J5fZayYrY

Would the Spurs go for a prospect who has quit on his team three different times? :lmao :lmao

So much talent though...

[mo7888]

Let's see...

Which prospects are locked in the top 6 or whatever? Who will fall like Haliburton and Obi Toppin of last year?

Cade, Mobley will for sure be in the top 3.

Suggs, Kuminga, and Green likely to go top 5.

I see Jalen Johnson falling because of his character issues.

Kispert's advanced metrics are superb, but will he really be drafted in the top 10?

I feel Barnes will remain in the top 10. Someone will fall in love with his athleticism.

1. Cade
2. Mobley
3. Suggs
4. Kuminga
5. Green
6. Barnes
7. ?
8. ?
9. ?
10. ?

Mitchell and Keon Johnson make the top 10...probably Wagner and Jalen Johnson as well...

That looks to me like we will get a real player if we can draft in the top 10..

[SpurPadre]

Mitchell and Keon Johnson make the top 10...probably Wagner and Jalen Johnson as well...

That looks to me like we will get a real player if we can draft in the top 10..

That top 10 is much more exciting than last year's top 10, tbh.

[Dejounte]

Mitchell and Keon Johnson make the top 10...probably Wagner and Jalen Johnson as well...

That looks to me like we will get a real player if we can draft in the top 10..

We'll get the scraps at the 9th or 10th spot, hopefully Wagner.

Honestly don't want to speak like it's done. This team could win some and we end up with 11th or 12th.

[BackHome]

Yeah I think if we can fall at 8 or 9 we will be able to draft any of the following players:
1. Giddey
2. Sengun
3. Karl Franz Wagner *
4. Moody

[LakerHater]

Can Spurs draft a coach?

[KingKev]

Can Spurs draft a coach?

Lol maybe a GM with our second round pick.

[mo7888]

We'll get the scraps at the 9th or 10th spot, hopefully Wagner.

Honestly don't want to speak like it's done. This team could win some and we end up with 11th or 12th.

I'm good with the scraps if it turns out like I suggested because my personal top 10 looks like this:


1. Cade
2. Kuminga
3. Mobley
4. Suggs
5. Wagner
6. Green
7. Mitchell
8. Barnes
9. Jalen Johnson
10. Giddey

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1380248946644283396

[JuneJive]

How is his D?

[pad300]

I hope he can shoot better (and more enthusiastically) than Simmons

[Dejounte]

How is his D?

Not a lockdown defender, gets weakside blocks, pokes the ball free sometimes so he's got good hands. Full games are on Twitch.

[SpurPadre]

Fuck...Pistons are curbstomping the Kings. It looks like it's going to take alot of luck to crack 9-10th slots, tbh. I thought the Kings would be better than this down the stretch of the season.

[offset formation]

Honestly if it's really worth it I'd package White and our pick to move up in this draft

Not sure that moves you up much. Not sure if White is just not healthy or what but he's not driving like he did last year when he earned his extension. And he's become a turnover machine. And to make it all the worse, his defense appears to have slipped a bit.

So I'm not sure how much you move up.

[BackHome]

I would almost bet he is having foot issues again but he is just playing through the pain

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

My current semi-realistic options for the Spurs if we assume they'll pick somewhere between 10 and 14 :

-Jalen Johnson - personality red flags obviously but very talented and a position of need. Doesn't seem like the type of player the Spurs would pick but if they actually do, I'd be confident they've done their due diligence on his character.
-Franz Wagner - many projectable skills and a seamless fit on the court, especially if he develops his 3 point shot further. Might not be an all star but very close to a sure thing.
-Moses Moody - a good scorer, who has the physical presence and defense to be a contributor right away despite of being young. If he could improve his ball handling and finishing in traffic he could be fantastic. High floor.

Other players I like :

-Jaden Springer - a bit of Lowry in him, not sure all of his skills would translate and would likely need a couple of years before he could contribute but intriguing talent if you believe in his shot.
-Ziaire Williams - just for the upside, currently looks terrible admittedly.
-Alperen Sengun - a lot to like about his game, but it's difficult for me to project what would translate to the NBA and what wouldn't. Certainly very advanced for his age but if he ends up being a 2020s Kanter I wouldn't value that too much.
-James Bouknight - probably a lock to be a good NBA scorer, but not sure he could add anything else and not exactly a clean fit on the current Spurs.
-Josh Giddey - barely seen him except for highlights. His shot looks suspect to me but so did Lamelo's. Scouts will have their hands full comparing them and projecting Giddey's stock. I could definitely see a team falling in love and taking him in the 7-10 range.
-Usman Garuba - his defense is legit and a sure thing. The main issue would be if he'd develop enough offensively to play the 4. If he's going to be an undersized center his value plummets.
-Josh Christopher - has a lot of skills and I'm not sure he was in a great position to show them and develop in college. Seems one of these guys who are going to be better in the NBA than NCAA.

Players I've soured on : Greg Brown, Kai Jones - can't see either being a meaningful contributor in the next couple of years. G league bound.

Players I like for the second round :
-Joel Ayayi - shades of Jrue, advanced, team first, probably going to end up in the 1st round though, or early second.
-Bennedict Mathurin - young and already an efficient scorer. Sign me up.
-Roko Prkacin - very young and has good experience already. Likely going early in the 2nd.
-Jeremiah Robinson-Earl - not too exciting but dude just knows how to play. I wouldn't be surprised if some team takes him way earlier.
-Isaiah Todd - liked what he showed in the g-league. A good project if you believe in his shot.
-Oscar da Silva - again, he knows how to play basketball.

[ragas]

He's not going to get drafted, but I would love the Spurs to take a chance on him as an undrafted FA (for the G League).
22y, 6'10'', 245 lbs forward, who brings a ton of energy. Fan favourite in Illinois. Could have started for the majority of college teams, but had to back up Kofi Cockburn this season.

https://twitter.com/NicoFOXIL/status/1380253312897970177?s=20


https://youtu.be/cTTQ07ZMWQg


https://youtu.be/kEM4Evyz7kc

[exstatic]

I would be stunned if the Spurs selected Jalen Johnson. The talent is definitely there, but when he left Duke, his family released a statement about it being a family/group decision, and I don’t see PATFO being down with more of that after Uncle Dennis. Sacto is going through it right now, with Bagley, also coincidentally from Duke, and his dad is all over Twitter demanding trades.

If I were a hiring manager, and was interviewing a candidate who had a parent come with them to the interview, I’d never hire that candidate. This is the NBA equivalent.

[Dejounte]

I would be stunned if the Spurs selected Jalen Johnson. The talent is definitely there, but when he left Duke, his family released a statement about it being a family/group decision, and I don’t see PATFO being down with more of that after Uncle Dennis. Sacto is going through it right now, with Bagley, also coincidentally from Duke, and his dad is all over Twitter demanding trades.

If I were a hiring manager, and was interviewing a candidate who had a parent come with them to the interview, I’d never hire that candidate. This is the NBA equivalent.

The sad thing is, the Kings will probably target the same type of player the Spurs need and avoid these malcontents because of Bagley. All assuming they don't pass up the Spurs, which is looking more likely.

[Dejounte]

The Thunder are signing two Euroleague players (Gabriel Deck and someone else) for multiple seasons. I wouldn't be surprised if they draft Alperen Sengun with their high lottery pick. They look like they're going all-international.

[exstatic]

The Thunder are signing two Euroleague players (Gabriel Deck and someone else) for next season. I wouldn't be surprised if they draft Alperen Sengun with their high lottery pick. They look like they're going all-international.

Don’t understand them at all. They have like 15 first round picks in the next 5 drafts. Each of those must be offered a guaranteed contract. They also have some good players now, like SGA. There are only 15 NBA roster spot per team. Is anyone else seeing a numbers crunch coming? Why on earth are they signing rando euros? Why on earth are they signing ANYONE?

[Dejounte]

Would not be shocked now if the Thunder go for Patty also:

SGA/ Maledon
Vasili/ Mills
Dort/ Deck/ Svi Mykhail
Poku/ Bazley
Sengun/ Moses Brown

[Dejounte]

Don’t understand them at all. They have like 15 first round picks in the next 5 drafts. Each of those must be offered a guaranteed contract. They also have some good players now, like SGA. There are only 15 NBA roster spot per team. Is anyone else seeing a numbers crunch coming? Why on earth are they signing rando euros? Why on earth are they signing ANYONE?

They probably will consolidate Dort + Roby + Bazley + picks into a big player. Not sure whom.

[Prime BEEF]

Would do whatever trade it takes to get Mobley. Think he’s going to be a really good player in the league for a while. He reminds of a defensive minded Chris Bosh. Bosh was probably a better outside shooter but Mobley is a better defender. But their frame, athletic ability, and coordination are comparable.

[stnick2261]

you can extend your market by going international. Not sure how much more money they'd make by doing so.

[Dejounte]

you can extend your market by going international. Not sure how much more money they'd make by doing so.

There's also a greater chance they stay after their contract is up. Part of the reason I hope the Spurs go international also with FA/ draft. Either that or country boys like Keldon. Less Hollywood personalities, please.

[daslicer]

There's also a greater chance they stay after their contract is up. Part of the reason I hope the Spurs go international also with FA/ draft. Either that or country boys like Keldon. Less Hollywood personalities, please.

Agreed. Having foreign stars is the best way to go for small markets. There is a much higher chance they will stay since they are just thankful to be in the US. It's one of the reasons I hope the next Spur superstar is a foreigner.

[Dejounte]

Agreed. Having foreign stars is the best way to go for small markets. There is a much higher chance they will stay since they are just thankful to be in the US. It's one of the reasons I hope the next Spur superstar is a foreigner.

Foreigners in the draft:

Kuminga
Sengun
Franz
Giddey
Garuba
Petrusev
Hukporti
da Silva

Small town/ Country boys:
Cade
Scottie Barnes
Keon Johnson
Moses Moody
... there's quite a bit, I'll leave it to others to add if they wish

[BackHome]

Dang DJ you always on point gotta love that.

[look_at_g_shred]

Really starting to warm up to Giddey

[Maddog]

There's also a greater chance they stay after their contract is up. Part of the reason I hope the Spurs go international also with FA/ draft. Either that or country boys like Keldon. Less Hollywood personalities, please.


Agreed. Having foreign stars is the best way to go for small markets. There is a much higher chance they will stay since they are just thankful to be in the US. It's one of the reasons I hope the next Spur superstar is a foreigner.

Interesting observation and thoughts.
Have to think about this in the context of your previous thread about Franchise players.

[Dejounte]

Really starting to warm up to Giddey

https://twitter.com/DraftDummies/status/1380624222465130496

https://twitter.com/DraftDummies/status/1380265473174949889

Unfortunately since Giddey's in the NBL, he's going to have more games to raise his stock. Not good for the Spurs. Recency bias is a real thing.


Where do you think you fall in between those three (including Ben Simmons) in terms of athleticism?
Giddey: I think coming into the season that was what people were worried about, but I think I’ve shown throughout the year it’s not a flaw by any means for me. You can’t teach athleticism or explosiveness, but I think it’s something I’ve worked on a lot in the offseason and has paid off. My hips used to be really tight and I didn’t really have the ability to explode off the foot that I do now. I’m not a freak athlete by any means, but I’m not a Joe Ingles type of athlete. I’m kind of in that middle section. I think.

That Joe Ingles shade :lmao

[scott]

Any thoughts on Charles Bassey, star of San Antonio’s own recruiting scandal?

[BackHome]

Dang just read that Saddiq Bey just broke the Pistions record for shooting most 3 pointers for a rookie in fact only 9 players in NBA has shot as many 3 as he has as a rookie - Lillard, Iverson, and Luka to name a few. But out of the 9 players he has the best percentage 3pa is averaging 6 shots at 38%.

[Thomas82]

Would do whatever trade it takes to get Mobley. Think he’s going to be a really good player in the league for a while. He reminds of a defensive minded Chris Bosh. Bosh was probably a better outside shooter but Mobley is a better defender. But their frame, athletic ability, and coordination are comparable.

I cosign this 100%!!

[Dejounte]

Nobody is trading a top 2 pick (which Mobley will likely be) unless it's for a superstar.

[exstatic]

Nobody is trading a top 2 pick (which Mobley will likely be) unless it's for a superstar.

This, and OKC likely winds up with Towns. They could throw 6 first round picks at Minny, AND NOT EVEN MISS THEM.

[mo7888]

This, and OKC likely winds up with Towns. They could throw 6 first round picks at Minny, AND NOT EVEN MISS THEM.

Okc or Nola... either of those have 1st's to burn.... I see Nola as a bigger 'threat' to get towns because want to start winning. I'm not sure Okc is at that point yet.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/PzrQTmt8NRk

36ers played again last night.

Check out the pass on the last clip. Wow.

Full game here:

Check out this video "NBL21 | Round 13 - Adelaide 36ers vs Perth Wildcats and Melbourne United vs NZ Breakers" https://www.twitch.tv/nbl/v/982193642?sr=a&t=1s

He's continuing to shoot well: 3-6 from three.

At this point, I think I have him over Franz because of his offensive upside (not 3 point shooting, but overall shot creation and playmaking ability). Not that I'd be disappointed if we picked Franz.

[Prime BEEF]

Any thoughts on Charles Bassey, star of San Antonio’s own recruiting scandal?
Right now he’s predicted to be a late 1st rounder by some. I think he’ll be a safe and solid pick for whoever gets him. He’s an excellent defender and rebounder. And has some offensive post skills. He won’t space the floor though. But that’s ok...he is not going to fill that role. I think he’ll be a great backup center for someone.

he’s 4th in D1 in total blocks and blocks/game. He’s 5th in D1 in rebounds/game. And 2nd in D1 in total rebounds.

[mo7888]

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2021-nba-mock-draft-3-0-cade-cunningham-goes-no-1-to-houston-rockets-davion-mitchell-taken-in-top-10/

I've this new CBS mock....don't live who they have us picking but love the guys that are available when we pick..

[Dejounte]

If the Spurs are picking late (like 14ish) and every prospect that I like is gone, I wouldn't mind Keon Johnson.


https://youtu.be/l5buYq4sQqQ

I know we have a glut of small wings already, but Keon isn't your boring 3 and D wing. He has great footwork, good handle, and looks like a natural scorer.


https://youtu.be/zuhOYJHdcuQ


https://youtu.be/uYVZJ-NFb_g

[mo7888]

If the Spurs are picking late (like 14ish) and every prospect that I like is gone, I wouldn't mind Keon Johnson.


https://youtu.be/l5buYq4sQqQ

I know we have a glut of small wings already, but Keon isn't your boring 3 and D wing. He has great footwork, good handle, and looks like a natural scorer.


https://youtu.be/zuhOYJHdcuQ


https://youtu.be/uYVZJ-NFb_g

I'm not a fan myself buy, espn has him ranked at the 6th best available player. If he's available at 14 it is good value and it means guys I liked better are off the board...so yea, I'd take him at #14..

[3&D_TBH]

https://youtu.be/PzrQTmt8NRk

36ers played again last night.

Check out the pass on the last clip. Wow.

Full game here:

Check out this video "NBL21 | Round 13 - Adelaide 36ers vs Perth Wildcats and Melbourne United vs NZ Breakers" https://www.twitch.tv/nbl/v/982193642?sr=a&t=1s

He's continuing to shoot well: 3-6 from three.

At this point, I think I have him over Franz because of his offensive upside (not 3 point shooting, but overall shot creation and playmaking ability). Not that I'd be disappointed if we picked Franz.

Why the hell is he so low on all the mock drafts (I hope he stays there)? Athleticism? Dude looks like a playmaking monster. Man I hope he's there for us.

[Dejounte]

Why the hell is he so low on all the mock drafts (I hope he stays there)? Athleticism? Dude looks like a playmaking monster. Man I hope he's there for us.

He won't be low for long. 13th on ESPN, 9th on BR, 15th on Ringer.

He has 14 games left to play. Also has the Olympics.

He could crack the 5-8 range which would be unfortunate for us.

[exstatic]

He’s a TRex, wingspan actually sorter than height, and shoots poorly from 3. His FT shooting also sucks, which means he likely won’t improve much from distance.

He’s got some really nice attributes, but some definite holes, too. His wingspan will sharply limit his defensive upside,and his ability to deflect, steal, and deny the ball.

[Dejounte]

He’s a TRex, wingspan actually sorter than height, and shoots poorly from 3. His FT shooting also sucks, which means he likely won’t improve much from distance.

He’s got some really nice attributes, but some definite holes, too. His wingspan will sharply limit his defensive upside,and his ability to deflect, steal, and deny the ball.

https://twitter.com/Jonphipps881/status/1381034430869893122?s=19

Shot has improved.

[exstatic]

I don’t hate him, or even dislike him, I just think he’s appropriately slotted. Anyone remember White and Keldons 3 point shooting in the bubble? That was about the same sample size as Giddeys improvement.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1381319198471827462?s=19

Big yikes. I know many on here (including myself) saw him as the next big thing. Careers can be derailed at any moment, and sometimes they never had hope getting there. Don't place too much hype on these top 5 projected players. There's real talent to be found later in the draft, too.

Wiseman's injury wasn't even one that had a lot of physical contact. It was bad landing, and maybe his weight has something to do with it also. He should try to slim down.

[duncan2150]

If the Spurs are picking late (like 14ish) and every prospect that I like is gone, I wouldn't mind Keon Johnson.


https://youtu.be/l5buYq4sQqQ

I know we have a glut of small wings already, but Keon isn't your boring 3 and D wing. He has great footwork, good handle, and looks like a natural scorer.


https://youtu.be/zuhOYJHdcuQ


https://youtu.be/uYVZJ-NFb_g

I started to rewatch him more because the spurs could have a lottery pick. I like his potential, really athletic, show some midrange game..good on D. Could be a good option if he's there.

[SpurPadre]

I don’t hate him, or even dislike him, I just think he’s appropriately slotted. Anyone remember White and Keldons 3 point shooting in the bubble? That was about the same sample size as Giddeys improvement.

I'm wary of Giddey's Trex arms too. We already have one in Samanic. He does have talent but I also think he's properly slotted.

[BatManu20]

Weisman out for the season with a torn meniscus. Warriors will go full tank now smh.

[Dejounte]

I'm wary of Giddey's Trex arms too. We already have one in Samanic. He does have talent but I also think he's properly slotted.

Does it hurt him on defense?

Standing reach is the better indicator for man to man defense. Offensive players are scared to shoot over Samanic.

Wingspan is great for pulling off steals on passing lanes, but it's also anticipation and hand-eye coordination too.

[SpurPadre]

Does it hurt him on defense?

Standing reach is the better indicator for man to man defense. Offensive players are scared to shoot over Samanic.

Wingspan is great for pulling off steals on passing lanes, but it's also anticipation and hand-eye coordination too.

I need to see more of Samanic to make any real determination of him. Overall though, I'm partial to disrupting passing lanes, especially in today's game.

[Dejounte]

I forgot to add: lateral quickness is key too on defense. Luka is clearly better than Keldon on that end (for now). Being able to have loose hips to make quick turns is important.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/JonChep/status/1379509646315126787?s=19

[PhantomDashCam]

https://twitter.com/JonChep/status/1379509646315126787?s=19

It’s going to be an interesting pre draft period for Giddey.

He will most likely make the Australian Olympic team (although he won’t be expected to play meaningful minutes), which could see him take a fall stock wise as I’m not sure he’ll be able to attend many workouts due to these national team commitments.

He probably won’t be at the draft either as Olympics run from 23/7 - 8/8. Draft slated for 29/7.

Patty relationship really could be key here. :tu

[objective]

Does it hurt him on defense?

Standing reach is the better indicator for man to man defense. Offensive players are scared to shoot over Samanic.

Wingspan is great for pulling off steals on passing lanes, but it's also anticipation and hand-eye coordination too.

I think it does hurt Samanic on defense. Players have taken and made shots against his contest because his reach isn't enough. Poku has gotten a number of blocks in the minutes I've seen just due to his reach without great fundamentals where he's at least +2 on Luka.

Doesn't mean Luka can't be an effective defender, Ben Simmons doesn't have great length and he's pretty damn good. It's just the lack of length means Samanic probably won't generate defensive events like deflections, blocks, steals, tips etc compared to longer players.

Re: Giddey in general, I haven't watched anything on anyone yet, he's the first one where it's just been the highlight packages. First uninformed impressions aren't great. Knock knee shooter, stiff back, not very impressed by his handle. But that's just based off of 20 minutes of footage and without any context to compare to other players and no full game action, so it doesn't mean anything.

[Dejounte]

I think it does hurt Samanic on defense. Players have taken and made shots against his contest because his reach isn't enough. Poku has gotten a number of blocks in the minutes I've seen just due to his reach without great fundamentals where he's at least +2 on Luka.

Doesn't mean Luka can't be an effective defender, Ben Simmons doesn't have great length and he's pretty damn good. It's just the lack of length means Samanic probably won't generate defensive events like deflections, blocks, steals, tips etc compared to longer players.

Re: Giddey in general, I haven't watched anything on anyone yet, he's the first one where it's just been the highlight packages. First uninformed impressions aren't great. Knock knee shooter, stiff back, not very impressed by his handle. But that's just based off of 20 minutes of footage and without any context to compare to other players and no full game action, so it doesn't mean anything.

Eh, I should have clarified that I meant man to man defense. Blocks, steals, etc. can be empty stats most times. In non-garbage time minutes, Luka's contests has led to more misses than made shots for his opponents. Probably the best on the team in regards to that.

You can find full games of Giddey on Twitch.

[SpurPadre]

We've moved to 13th pick tonight! Would be 11th had we not won the Mavs game.

[FutureMan]

I’m thinking we’ll end up at the 11th pick just like last year. It would be the most fitting. Make 0 moves, don’t play your lottery pick enough, and end in the same place.

[SpurPadre]

I’m thinking we’ll end up at the 11th pick just like last year. It would be the most fitting. Make 0 moves, don’t play your lottery pick enough, and end in the same place.

Better draft this year at least and odds are the 11th pick this year will have a higher ceiling than Devin.

[Ditty]

Same think we will draft about 11th again. If Kai Jones is there I think he will be the pick as he played down the road.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Better draft this year at least and odds are the 11th pick this year will have a higher ceiling than Devin.

Not sure about this. The 2021 draft is very good at the top but after the 5th/6th pick it doesn't seem better than last year's in the same range.

[exstatic]

Same think we will draft about 11th again. If Kai Jones is there I think he will be the pick as he played down the road.
Yeah, that’s an incredibly dumb reason to draft someone nearly 10 spots too high.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/vy5k3z2stTM

Roko has had a couple big games lately, not sure if it's enough to vault him into the lottery.

His stature reminds me of Keldon Johnson's. Big on the shoulders and short neck. His game is similar too, but obviously doesn't have the same intensity as Keldon.

I think he's more of a 3.5 than a 4.5. Not tall, long, or strong enough to cover C's in the NBA.

Solid player, but not sure if he would move the needle much in regards to the team's ceiling. Would probably be Samanic's little bro if he was drafted by the team.

[cd98]

If we can only get to the 11th pick in terms of record, I can live with that. It still means the opportunity to get a good player. That said, once you get in the lottery, there is a slim changes to move up, so we just need to hope that fates smiles on us a little and we can get a top 10 pick.

[Ditty]

Yeah, that’s an incredibly dumb reason to draft someone nearly 10 spots too high.

He has been a projected lottery pick in most mock drafts.

[exstatic]

He has been a projected lottery pick in most mock drafts.

Tankathon has him at #20 on their big board, and #19 in their mock. They’re a pretty good analysis site, not just one of the many mocks out there.

[rankingtear]

Tankathon has him at #20 on their big board, and #19 in their mock. They’re a pretty good analysis site, not just one of the many mocks out there.

More intel based boards have Kai higher. 7th SI and 9th Bleacher.

[exstatic]

More intel based boards have Kai higher. 7th SI and 9th Bleacher.

SI and Bleacher? I’m sold!

[exstatic]

Glad we’re not CHI. They rolled the dice, and it appears they came up snake eyes. Lavine just went into health and safety protocols.

[FutureMan]

Glad we’re not CHI. They rolled the dice, and it appears they came up snake eyes. Lavine just went into health and safety protocols.

Very true. How scary would it be if the Orlando rebuild only takes one season and we are still trying to make the playoffs for years? Could be very dark times ahead for Spurs fans.

[exstatic]

Very true. How scary would it be if the Orlando rebuild only takes one season and we are still trying to make the playoffs for years? Could be very dark times ahead for Spurs fans.

They’ll fuck it up, somehow. They’ve done nothing else since DH exited.

[timvp]

My god does this draft suck outside of the top five :lol

I'm starting my deep dive and I haven't found anyone I like outside of the obvious five. Starting at six, you have to settle for a flawed prospect. Hopefully it gets better the deeper I dive but so far it looks pretty terrible, tbh.

Last year, there were ~10 picks I liked so I thought the Spurs were in good shape at 11. As it turned out, Haliburton and Vassell were available from my 10, so it worked out.

This year ... man, I'm struggling to be able to even co-sign a sixth player.

I guess the lone bright spot is that the talent is flat from about 6 to 16 or even 18 ... so tanking doesn't matter enough to even care about one way or another.

[duncan2150]

My god does this draft suck outside of the top five :lol

I'm starting my deep dive and I haven't found anyone I like outside of the obvious five. Starting at six, you have to settle for a flawed prospect. Hopefully it gets better the deeper I dive but so far it looks pretty terrible, tbh.

Last year, there were ~10 picks I liked so I thought the Spurs were in good shape at 11. As it turned out, Haliburton and Vassell were available from my 10, so it worked out.

This year ... man, I'm struggling to be able to even co-sign a sixth player.

I guess the lone bright spot is that the talent is flat from about 6 to 16 or even 18 ... so tanking doesn't matter enough to even care about one way or another.


I have Jalen Johnson and Scottie Barnes after the top 5, other than that i agree with you overall . Imo this draft is deeper than last year's draft so if you make the right choice in the top 15 you will get a good player.

Last year top 10 ( including Vassel and Haliburton) looked more readable and stronger but i'm not sure about overall talent comparing to this year draft.

[Degoat]

Wasn’t the draft this year suppose to be really deep??

[duncan2150]

Wasn’t the draft this year suppose to be really deep??


That's the case but outside of the top 5, you have a drop of quality but imo that's because the top 5 is really strong.

After that you have a lot of quality players so i understand what timvp is saying . For me you have a lot players who are like Vassell in the 10-20 range ( role player type of players), you just have to take the good one.

[BackHome]

A name I have not heard was mentioned in a mock draft for the Spurs - Johnny Juzang 6’6 SF from UCLA

[ginobilized]

A name I have not heard was mentioned in a mock draft for the Spurs - Johnny Juzang 6’6 SF from UCLA

Basically DDR with a 3pt shot. Even played AAU for Compton. I could see it it working.

[Dejounte]

Basically DDR with a 3pt shot. Even played AAU for Compton. I could see it it working.

In what way is he like DeMar? DeMar has one of the best handles for a wing. This guy is mostly a catch and shoot player, or sometimes a stop and pop shooter.

Edit: also, he looks really slow

[exstatic]

In what way is he like DeMar? DeMar has one of the best handles for a wing. This guy is mostly a catch and shoot player, or sometimes a stop and pop shooter.

Edit: also, he looks really slow

DeMar didn’t come into the league with handles.

What I like about Juzang is that he has no fear. The moment is never too big for him. YOU CANNOT TEACH THAT. He’s got that dog in him, like Keldon. If he comes out, would be an awesome second rounder.

[R. DeMurre]

This was supposed to be an amazing free agent season AND an amazing & deep draft. Might not be either.

[Dejounte]

DeMar didn’t come into the league with handles.

What I like about Juzang is that he has no fear. The moment is never too big for him. YOU CANNOT TEACH THAT. He’s got that dog in him, like Keldon. If he comes out, would be an awesome second rounder.

That's fair, but I'm still trying to figure out how exactly does he share any similarities with DeMar.

[exstatic]

That's fair, but I'm still trying to figure out how exactly does he share any similarities with DeMar.
He’s from LA, and attended a PAC-12 school in town for one year.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/eld_-fHPMOU

[Dejounte]

He’s from LA, and attended a PAC-12 school in town for one year.

Oh okay....then I'll say Cade Cunningham is basically Tony Allen with playmaking ability. They both went to Oklahoma State.

...Shit doesn't make sense :lmao

[ginobilized]

In what way is he like DeMar? DeMar has one of the best handles for a wing. This guy is mostly a catch and shoot player, or sometimes a stop and pop shooter.

Edit: also, he looks really slow

Here's what I see that make his game similar to DDR

6'7" from LA
Shoot-first player
Hoists a lot of midrange jumpshots
Not defense oriented
Ball dominant

Granted, he came to UCLA as a catch and shoot guy, but, he did a lot of damage off the dribble in the tourney

[Gibbz]

Oh okay....then I'll say Cade Cunningham is basically Tony Allen with playmaking ability. They both went to Oklahoma State.

...Shit doesn't make sense :lmao

Cade Cunningham wishes he could defend like Tony Allen tbh

[exstatic]

Oh okay....then I'll say Cade Cunningham is basically Tony Allen with playmaking ability. They both went to Oklahoma State.

...Shit doesn't make sense :lmao

Oh, I forgot the blue font...

[mo7888]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-mock-draft-jalen-suggs-evan-mobley-davion-mitchell/

I find this new aggregate mock interesting for the Spurs. There are at least 4 guys available at the #12 pick that offer something we could use here. Obviously, my favorite of the bunch is Wagner but, Giddey, Johnson, and even Kispert with his marksmanship have a skill that would help here.

[exstatic]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/nba-mock-draft-jalen-suggs-evan-mobley-davion-mitchell/

I find this new aggregate mock interesting for the Spurs. There are at least 4 guys available at the #12 pick that offer something we could use here. Obviously, my favorite of the bunch is Wagner but, Giddey, Johnson, and even Kispert with his marksmanship have a skill that would help here.

Johnson’s family would never tolerate the Spurs development program. He transferred for his senior year of HS to the IMG academy, and lasted only 6 games. He committed to Duke, and lasted 13. It would be worse than Uncle Dennis, because it would start immediately.

[mo7888]

Johnson’s family would never tolerate the Spurs development program. He transferred for his senior year of HS to the IMG academy, and lasted only 6 games. He committed to Duke, and lasted 13. It would be worse than Uncle Dennis, because it would start immediately.

I understand the red flags with him but everyone at that point on tge draft will have red flags. They will just have to interview and do their due diligence and see if the reality of the character stuff is as bad as the perception seems to be.

[look_at_g_shred]

IMHO if Johnson is there, you take him and don't look back, but I have a feeling come draft time he's going to shoot up the board.

[Dejounte]

I'm gonna cringe so hard if Jalen turns out to be a Kyrie-type media personality

[pad300]

I stand by my opinion. Barring us jumping into the top 5, if Sengun is there, DRAFT HIM.

[duncan2150]

I stand by my opinion. Barring us jumping into the top 5, if Sengun is there, DRAFT HIM.

i'm with you, i may have Scottie Barnes ( Physical tools, ceiling, point foward capacity) ahead of him if he's available when we draft.

Jalen Johnson is ahead of theam also but the concerns about his mentality are a red flag.

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1383054244949950472

https://twitter.com/DmitryPlanidin/status/1382741497100042246

[exstatic]

IMHO if Johnson is there, you take him and don't look back, but I have a feeling come draft time he's going to shoot up the board.

Praying dog

[exstatic]

I understand the red flags with him but everyone at that point on tge draft will have red flags. They will just have to interview and do their due diligence and see if the reality of the character stuff is as bad as the perception seems to be.

Very few players have character red flags. The last one I can remember was KPJ. He almost dropped out of the first round.

[Dejounte]

Alperen, for me, is a way better prospect than someone like Greg Brown or Kai Jones. Alperen has some sneaky athleticism and can be that rim running athletic forward who has good timing and can give you put back dunks. So if we consider that that's what he'll give us at the minimum, all the post-ups and other stuff is gravy. I'm yearning for a playmaking type prospect, but wouldn't be disappointed with a player who plays inside and has post move skills to get you easy shots.

That being said, he'll probably go higher than we all expect. Seriously think the Thunder will be interested.

[mo7888]

Very few players have character red flags. The last one I can remember was KPJ. He almost dropped out of the first round.

Yes, but we are working on limited information. The FO will have much more after they do their deeper dive... I'm not making a conclusion about the character issues... I'm open to whatever the research turns up because the talent is there...

[duncan2150]

Alperen, for me, is a way better prospect than someone like Greg Brown or Kai Jones. Alperen has some sneaky athleticism and can be that rim running athletic forward who has good timing and can give you put back dunks. So if we consider that that's what he'll give us at the minimum, all the post-ups and other stuff is gravy. I'm yearning for a playmaking type prospect, but wouldn't be disappointed with a player who plays inside and has post move skills to get you easy shots.

That being said, he'll probably go higher than we all expect. Seriously think the Thunder will be interested.

+1

[rankingtear]

SI and Bleacher? I’m sold!

Ringer and Athletic has him at 8th.

[mo7888]

Ringer and Athletic has him at 8th.

He's also 8th in the aggregate of polls.. he's a developmental guy with tons of upside and considerable bust potential... I think he goes before we pick and I'm personally not a fan but, there is a certain logic behind swinging for the fences based on his upside.

[Russ]

Evan Mobley or Kai Jones. Otherwise you're just moving around a bunch of deck chairs you already have.

[pad300]

Alperen, for me, is a way better prospect than someone like Greg Brown or Kai Jones. Alperen has some sneaky athleticism and can be that rim running athletic forward who has good timing and can give you put back dunks. So if we consider that that's what he'll give us at the minimum, all the post-ups and other stuff is gravy. I'm yearning for a playmaking type prospect, but wouldn't be disappointed with a player who plays inside and has post move skills to get you easy shots.

That being said, he'll probably go higher than we all expect. Seriously think the Thunder will be interested.

Everybody should be interested, but the NBA can be kind of dumb that way (see Doncic)... BTW, Alperen might just give you some of that playmaking:


https://twitter.com/i/status/1368583417290362882


https://twitter.com/i/status/1368278659363135492

[Dejounte]

With the way Pop was talking after the loss to the Raptors and emphasizing the lack of physical stature on the team, you almost have to believe that long wings or bigs will be the target this offseason during FA/ draft.

[pad300]

With the way Pop was talking after the loss to the Raptors and emphasizing the lack of physical stature on the team, you almost have to believe that long wings or bigs will be the target this offseason during FA/ draft.

We've got an obvious logjam at 1, 2 and maybe 3 : DJ, White, Tre, Mills, Vassel, Lonnie, Demar, Keldon, Q, KBD...

[ragas]

Evan Mobley or Kai Jones. Otherwise you're just moving around a bunch of deck chairs you already have.

That

[The Truth #6]

We have, what, five/six shooting guards: IV, DD, White, Dejounte, Patty, even Vassel. Yes, I know teams play smaller, but they are all basically shooting guards thrown around in different lineups. Jones is the only real point guard.

[exstatic]

With the way Pop was talking after the loss to the Raptors and emphasizing the lack of physical stature on the team, you almost have to believe that long wings or bigs will be the target this offseason during FA/ draft.
6’10” guy sitting just a few chairs down...

[The Truth #6]

Regardless, I think Giddey is still the goal unless we somehow land higher to get Kaminga. Giddey will likely be gone anyway. Sengun probably a reach; he would be second unit.

[timvp]

Still have a lot more film to watch but I'm not too intrigued with Sengun yet, tbh. What he does wouldn't really work in the modern NBA. He's strong but he's also not that tall, not that long, not that athletic and looks pretty damn immobile on defense. Add in that he's not a shooter yet and I'm not sure what people see in him. What's he going to be? Luis Scola without a jumper? To draft Sengun, you'd have to hoping he develops a shot and has room to improve athletically. Otherwise, his game is antiquated on Day 1.


Everybody should be interested, but the NBA can be kind of dumb that way (see Doncic)... BTW, Alperen might just give you some of that playmaking:


https://twitter.com/i/status/1368583417290362882


https://twitter.com/i/status/1368278659363135492

Eh, those are basic passes. Even if you're impressed for some reason, those post-up sets don't even exist in the NBA anymore.




All that said, Sengun's production is enough to draft him in the 12-16 range without much complaint. This isn't an Avdija situation where his numbers are being purposefully inflated to try to trick NBA front offices. But his transition to the NBA wouldn't be simple and I wouldn't want the Spurs to trade up to get him based on what I've seen so far.

[mo7888]

Still have a lot more film to watch but I'm not too intrigued with Sengun yet, tbh. What he does wouldn't really work in the modern NBA. He's strong but he's also not that tall, not that long, not that athletic and looks pretty damn immobile on defense. Add in that he's not a shooter yet and I'm not sure what people see in him. What's he going to be? Luis Scola without a jumper? To draft Sengun, you'd have to hoping he develops a shot and has room to improve athletically. Otherwise, his game is antiquated on Day 1.



Eh, those are basic passes. Even if you're impressed for some reason, those post-up sets don't even exist in the NBA anymore.




All that said, Sengun's production is enough to draft him in the 12-16 range without much complaint. This isn't an Avdija situation where his numbers are being purposefully inflated to try to trick NBA front offices. But his transition to the NBA wouldn't be simple and I wouldn't want the Spurs to trade up to get him based on what I've seen so far.

If we trade up it needs to either be a surething or elite upside. There are plenty of guys in the 10-14 range that will be available that have either 1 transferable skill (so high floor) or high upside guys with a red flag or two to work on. I'm personally, for trading up using our pick and a young player or our cap space but, it would need to be one of the top 5 guys to make sense.

[Ocotillo]

Alperen, for me, is a way better prospect than someone like Greg Brown or Kai Jones. Alperen has some sneaky athleticism and can be that rim running athletic forward who has good timing and can give you put back dunks. So if we consider that that's what he'll give us at the minimum, all the post-ups and other stuff is gravy. I'm yearning for a playmaking type prospect, but wouldn't be disappointed with a player who plays inside and has post move skills to get you easy shots.

That being said, he'll probably go higher than we all expect. Seriously think the Thunder will be interested.

With all the picks the Thunder have in coming years, they are going to be a thorn in the side of a lot of teams because they will be able to take fliers on high risk/high reward prospects as long as they hang onto multiple given picks in a specific draft.

[Ocotillo]

Like Poku

[timvp]

Two more players I'm relatively low on so far:

Franz Wagner: I don't trust his jumper; that dip in his shot is getting better but it's still not where it needs to be. As it is, he could struggle to get his shot off in the NBA. Good length, good coordination and good instincts on defense but the lack of athleticism and a body that won't get much stronger limits his upside. He did well in college mostly due to his high basketball IQ but that advantage won't be as large in the NBA. He's a lot like Grant Williams in that he was productive in college because he's smarter and more coordinated than the vast majority of players on that level but that only gets you so far in the NBA. But, then again, like Sengun, can't really complain about getting him in the 12-16 range. On paper, he's a solid fit on the Spurs even if he only ends up being a modern-day Danny Ferry.

Scottie Barnes: Impressive length, NBA body, far above average passer, really coordinated for his size. But his jumper is hideous and he has no instincts for rebounds or blocking shots. Considering he probably needs to be a PF or even a C in the NBA due to his lack of a jumper and a lack of elite quickness for his size, that's a troublesome combination. I think he has a really low floor; like out of the NBA after his rookie contract type of floor. But, if he learns to shoot and sheds some of his baby fat, there's a slim chance that he could be a star or even a superstar. So, yeah, you can pick him outside of the top ten easily just based on that 1% chance he becomes something special.

[K...]

With all the picks the Thunder have in coming years, they are going to be a thorn in the side of a lot of teams because they will be able to take fliers on high risk/high reward prospects as long as they hang onto multiple given picks in a specific draft.

Not really. They don't get extra roster space. If you're talking about euro players who will after to stay away, it's true. But many euros won't wait and will force contracts. They can take all the prospects they want, they won't keep many

[Dejounte]

Two more players I'm relatively low on so far:

Franz Wagner: I don't trust his jumper; that dip in his shot is getting better but it's still not where it needs to be. As it is, he could struggle to get his shot off in the NBA. Good length, good coordination and good instincts on defense but the lack of athleticism and a body that won't get much stronger limits his upside. He did well in college mostly due to his high basketball IQ but that advantage won't be as large in the NBA. He's a lot like Grant Williams in that he was productive in college because he's smarter and more coordinated than the vast majority of players on that level but that only gets you so far in the NBA. But, then again, like Sengun, can't really complain about getting him in the 12-16 range. On paper, he's a solid fit on the Spurs even if he only ends up being a modern-day Danny Ferry.

Scottie Barnes: Impressive length, NBA body, far above average passer, really coordinated for his size. But his jumper is hideous and he has no instincts for rebounds or blocking shots. Considering he probably needs to be a PF or even a C in the NBA due to his lack of a jumper and a lack of elite quickness for his size, that's a troublesome combination. I think he has a really low floor; like out of the NBA after his rookie contract type of floor. But, if he learns to shoot and sheds some of his baby fat, there's a slim chance that he could be a star or even a superstar. So, yeah, you can pick him outside of the top ten easily just based on that 1% chance he becomes something special.

I don't know how you could say high basketball IQ won't be as large of an advantage in the NBA when you have dumbass players like Rudy Gay and Mills singlehandedly throwing games away due to their stupidity. Frankly, this team needs a big boost in the IQ department with how often they choke away large leads.

Edit: I'll add that it's best to wait until the combine to determine how athletic any of these prospects are

[timvp]

I think my No. 6 right now is Keon Johnson. Too athletic to ignore. Competes. Not a shot-maker yet but form looks okay. Gets great elevation on his shot. Don't need to squint too hard to see him becoming really, really good. But he needs to be at least the 6-foot-5, 186-pounder he's listed at when they measure him. That's the bare minimum. If he's any smaller than that, I'm swan diving off that bandwagon :lol

[timvp]

I don't know how you could say high basketball IQ won't be as large of an advantage in the NBA when you have dumbass players like Rudy Gay and Mills singlehandedly throwing games away due to their stupidity. Frankly, this team needs a big boost in the IQ department with how often they choke away large leads.

Yeah, I agree with the your second sentence, which is why I preferred Haliburton.

But Wagner's basketball IQ isn't at a Haliburton level. Probably isn't even at a Vassell level. It's high for his size and length but otherwise that alone won't allow him to succeed in the NBA. From what I've seen so far, he's in the Grant Williams camp. Thrives in college due to size + IQ but his size alone and IQ alone won't be anything too special in the NBA. It'll be better than average but that only gets you so far.

Maybe I'll change my mind on Wagner as I watch him more but so far I think he's being overhyped. I'd rather have Kispert's shooting or gamble on Giddey or even Kai Jones if you forced me to choose right now.

[mo7888]

I don't know how you could say high basketball IQ won't be as large of an advantage in the NBA when you have dumbass players like Rudy Gay and Mills singlehandedly throwing games away due to their stupidity. Frankly, this team needs a big boost in the IQ department with how often they choke away large leads.

Edit: I'll add that it's best to wait until the combine to determine how athletic any of these prospects are

I think his athleticism will measure out just fine but we'll see at the combine.... I only have two question marks about his game 1) his shots from 3 (I've been saying for a while that I'm concerned about that) and 2) mentality....does he have the mental toughness....

If our staff thinks they can turn him into a 38+% guy from 3 we could look back 4 years from now and say he's the best player in this draft.....but that's a big IF.... too big for me to gamble on moving up but if he's there where we likely pick (11-14)... he's my top choice..

[duncan2150]

Still have a lot more film to watch but I'm not too intrigued with Sengun yet, tbh. What he does wouldn't really work in the modern NBA. He's strong but he's also not that tall, not that long, not that athletic and looks pretty damn immobile on defense. Add in that he's not a shooter yet and I'm not sure what people see in him. What's he going to be? Luis Scola without a jumper? To draft Sengun, you'd have to hoping he develops a shot and has room to improve athletically. Otherwise, his game is antiquated on Day 1.



Eh, those are basic passes. Even if you're impressed for some reason, those post-up sets don't even exist in the NBA anymore.




All that said, Sengun's production is enough to draft him in the 12-16 range without much complaint. This isn't an Avdija situation where his numbers are being purposefully inflated to try to trick NBA front offices. But his transition to the NBA wouldn't be simple and I wouldn't want the Spurs to trade up to get him based on what I've seen so far.


Imo the important things to note about Sengun is that he is a 18 yrs old boy killing it in a Good league.

One thing i think will translate in the NBA is his post moves, footwork( really high level on that side), rebounds, hustle .. i'm pretty sure he would be a good offensive big in the league in a few years.
One flaw, question is the D offcourse.. he doesn't look really fast, i'm a little bit afraid of his D on the perimeter but he can protect the rim for sure.


Two more players I'm relatively low on so far:

Franz Wagner: I don't trust his jumper; that dip in his shot is getting better but it's still not where it needs to be. As it is, he could struggle to get his shot off in the NBA. Good length, good coordination and good instincts on defense but the lack of athleticism and a body that won't get much stronger limits his upside. He did well in college mostly due to his high basketball IQ but that advantage won't be as large in the NBA. He's a lot like Grant Williams in that he was productive in college because he's smarter and more coordinated than the vast majority of players on that level but that only gets you so far in the NBA. But, then again, like Sengun, can't really complain about getting him in the 12-16 range. On paper, he's a solid fit on the Spurs even if he only ends up being a modern-day Danny Ferry.

Scottie Barnes: Impressive length, NBA body, far above average passer, really coordinated for his size. But his jumper is hideous and he has no instincts for rebounds or blocking shots. Considering he probably needs to be a PF or even a C in the NBA due to his lack of a jumper and a lack of elite quickness for his size, that's a troublesome combination. I think he has a really low floor; like out of the NBA after his rookie contract type of floor. But, if he learns to shoot and sheds some of his baby fat, there's a slim chance that he could be a star or even a superstar. So, yeah, you can pick him outside of the top ten easily just based on that 1% chance he becomes something special.

I undestand your concerns, for me Barnes is a pure project with really elite tools both physical tools( really good size) and the fact that he can be a point forward in the league ( averaging 4 assists with Florida State). Other than that, yes there is a lot of work.

For Wagner, imo he will be at least a good role player, my concern is his ceilling... would he continues to improve ?

[pad300]

TimMVP, consider this:
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=evan-mobley--alperen-sengun
He's producing more against better competition at better percentages...

Alperen over here would still be in high school (he's a year younger than Mobley). Yet he's the MVP in a much tougher league than the NCAA...

Sure, his style is old school big, but let's not pretend he's not a really good one. You may think those passes are "basic" but you tell me which big on our current roster would be able to execute them? (I'd say no one currently; would be funny to watch Poeltl try....) There's not too many bigs in the NBA as whole who could pull those off.

How many big men do we have that could execute a 360 jam in game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTPovKfJ6y4
My answer is none, and at least 1/2 the bigs in the NBA couldn't pull that move. (Maybe 3/4 of the bigs in the NBA).

[Russ]

TimMVP, consider this:
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=evan-mobley--alperen-sengun
He's producing more against better competition at better percentages...

Alperen over here would still be in high school (he's a year younger than Mobley). Yet he's the MVP in a much tougher league than the NCAA...

Sure, his style is old school big, but let's not pretend he's not a really good one. You may think those passes are "basic" but you tell me which big on our current roster would be able to execute them? (I'd say no one currently; would be funny to watch Poeltl try....) There's not too many bigs in the NBA as whole who could pull those off.

How many big men do we have that could execute a 360 jam in game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTPovKfJ6y4
My answer is none, and at least 1/2 the bigs in the NBA couldn't pull that move. (Maybe 3/4 of the bigs in the NBA).

Honestly, that display was rather lumbering.

Sengun may work out better than my favorite sleeper big, Kai Jones, but I'm pretty sure Jones has more upside.

Jones is an undercoached potential gem (like Jaxon Hayes a couple years ago).

No sure things in this draft, that's for sure.

[Thomas82]

Evan Mobley or Kai Jones. Otherwise you're just moving around a bunch of deck chairs you already have.

Cosign!!

[The Truth #6]

With the way Pop was talking after the loss to the Raptors and emphasizing the lack of physical stature on the team, you almost have to believe that long wings or bigs will be the target this offseason during FA/ draft.

Also could be version #313 for calling the team soft.

[pad300]

Honestly, that display was rather lumbering.

You have high standards do you... OK, here's a compilation of NBA in game 360's (which are pretty rare)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGkI111FNRs

There a grand total of 3 people who are 6'8 and above in this video (Ok, they show AD as well, but he's only doing a 180). Paul George (6'8), Lebron (6'9) and Giannis (6'11). All are top notch NBA athletes... Sengun is 6'10" according to wikipedia, and at only 18, may still be growing. It's "lumbering"; the fact that he can do it says he's an NBA level athlete. A pretty good one.

[bluebellmaniac]

With all the picks the Thunder have in coming years, they are going to be a thorn in the side of a lot of teams because they will be able to take fliers on high risk/high reward prospects as long as they hang onto multiple given picks in a specific draft.

They can't fit all those picks on their roster. They are the ones who will be over a barrel. Teams will exact a price.from them to help them out.

[mo7888]

They can't fit all those picks on their roster. They are the ones who will be over a barrel. Teams will exact a price.from them to help them out.

There is no downside to having to many picks and they aren't going to have to 'pay' to get rid of them. They'll consolidate some to move up or acquire a player they want.

[Dejounte]

There is no downside to having to many picks and they aren't going to have to 'pay' to get rid of them. They'll consolidate some to move up or acquire a player they want.

That's assuming teams want to take their picks to move down. If they can't find a trade partner, they have to lose value and trade them for future protected picks. The Thunder finding trade partners for equal value is not guaranteed.

[Seventyniner]

The Thunder have 29 potential trading partners. It would take a hell of a lot of collusion to freeze them out of all trades. Teams will be lining up for those picks imo.

[mo7888]

That's assuming teams want to take their picks to move down. If they can't find a trade partner, they have to lose value and trade them for future protected picks. The Thunder finding trade partners for equal value is not guaranteed.

There's always a trade partner for 1st rd picks...and Presti knows the market.... literally no downside here...

[Dejounte]

The Thunder have 29 potential trading partners. It would take a hell of a lot of collusion to freeze them out of all trades. Teams will be lining up for those picks imo.


There's always a trade partner for 1st rd picks...and Presti knows the market.... literally no downside here...

I didn't say they wouldn't find a trade partner. I said there's no guarantee they'll find a trade they like and wouldn't have to settle for something less than ideal. Drafts like this one, for example, I find it hard to imagine anyone would want to trade down. So if the OKC can't leverage their picks to move up, then what will they do? Trade for future protected picks is a possibility.

[mo7888]

I didn't say they wouldn't find a trade partner. I said there's no guarantee they'll find a trade they like and wouldn't have to settle for something less than ideal. Drafts like this one, for example, I find it hard to imagine anyone would want to trade down. So if the OKC can't leverage their picks to move up, then what will they do? Trade for future protected picks is a possibility.

Okc has potentially 3 1st's in this draft (as an example)...they'll keep their own probably top 5 pick... the other two will be in the 20's...you don't think they can find a trade partner to take both those picks to move up to 17 or 18 if they see someone they like? It won't even be difficult...

[Dejounte]

Okc has potentially 3 1st's in this draft (as an example)...they'll keep their own probably top 5 pick... the other two will be in the 20's...you don't think they can find a trade partner to take both those picks to move up to 17 or 18 if they see someone they like? It won't even be difficult...

17 and 18 are far different than what I thought you were thinking. Haha. Something like 12 + 20 is something I don't see happening, depending on the context. We can throw out all types of scenarios out there, but my point is nothing is guaranteed. It's an obvious kind of point, but sometimes needs to be brought up.

[mo7888]

17 and 18 are far different than what I thought you were thinking. Haha. Something like 12 + 20 is something I don't see happening, depending on the context. We can throw out all types of scenarios out there, but my point is nothing is guaranteed. It's an obvious kind of point, but sometimes needs to be brought up.

I gotcha....the post I originally replied to suggested that okc would have to 'pay' to get rid of picks... I'm simply saying that's not realistic because there are plenty of ways to consolidate picks to move up.....maybe not move up into the top 5 of a draft but most of okc's acquired picks will be between 15 and 30 in the future.... you can easily package those to jump up a pick or two to get a player you want in that range/tier.... that's the only point I was trying to make..

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/957thegame/status/1383188019310587905?s=19

Jesus, what an uplifting comment by Kerr

[mo7888]

https://twitter.com/957thegame/status/1383188019310587905?s=19

Jesus, what an uplifting comment by Kerr

That's kinda surprising...not surprising that it's true... but surprising that he'd say it

[Biggems]

Players I am interested in

PG Josh Giddey - Adelaide
6'8 205 18yo 10.9 pts, 7.1 rbs, 6.9 ast, 1.2 stl
late lottery grade

PF Roko Prkacin - Cibona
6'9 210 18yo 13.9 pts, 7.4 rbs, 1.1 stl
late 1st grade

C Neemias Queta - Utah St.
7'0 226 21yo 14.9 pts, 10.1 rbs, 3.3 blk, 2.7 ast
mid-late 2nd grade

C Charles Bassey - WKU
6'10 239 20yo 17.6 pts, 11.6 rbs, 3.1 blk
late 1st-early 2nd grade

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/OlgunUluc/status/1383356469664391170?s=19

https://twitter.com/OlgunUluc/status/1383358234103148546?s=19

Hopefully he shuts it down


https://youtu.be/JMPB5oRjW20


https://youtu.be/xhEWeew0ZnE

[The Truth #6]

https://twitter.com/OlgunUluc/status/1383356469664391170?s=19

https://twitter.com/OlgunUluc/status/1383358234103148546?s=19

Hopefully he shuts it down


https://youtu.be/JMPB5oRjW20


https://youtu.be/xhEWeew0ZnE

Nice analysis from Chad Ford. His combine numbers might have him fall a bit into our range (if the ping pong balls don’t fall our way). I like him. But drafting him necessitates some trades to lessen the logjam. And getting players with size is still a priority moving forward. But I’d rather play Luka S then draft someone like Sengun over Giddey. Will be interesting to see what happens.

[Biggems]

https://twitter.com/OlgunUluc/status/1383356469664391170?s=19

https://twitter.com/OlgunUluc/status/1383358234103148546?s=19

Hopefully he shuts it down


https://youtu.be/JMPB5oRjW20


https://youtu.be/xhEWeew0ZnE

that is Isiah Thomas level right there. I love that old school mentality. This is why I would love the Spurs to get this kid.

I find it funny how one of the critiques is his poor 3pt shooting. He is only 18. He is just really beginning his professional journey. I will take an 18 yo, 6'8 ball handler who shots in the 30s% from 3. He has plenty of time to get into the gym and steadily improve his shooting. He has those other innate qualities that make me drool and basketball fan.....court vision, high BBIQ, passing, playmaking, leadership, confidence, tenacity, highly competitive, and willing to play through pain. The shooting will come as he and his body matures.

I sure as hell hope he is on the board when the Spurs pick comes around. To be honest, I want Giddey and Prkacin in the first round. I just don't see anyone we can trade with to get an extra first round pick, the same with an extra 2nd round pick.

But, If I could have my way, we would be able to accrue another first and 2nd, and draft 4 players.

1st
PG - Josh Giddey
SF/PF - Roko Prkacin

2nd
PF/C - Charles Bassey
C - Neemias Queta

Add these guys and subtract Gay, KBD, Dieng, and either let Mills walk or retire and become an assistant coach under Pop. We can re-sign DDR to a contract, hopefully nothing too crazy.

PG - White, Murray, Jones, Giddey
SG - DDR, KJ, Walker, Weatherspoon
SF - Vassell, Prkacin
PF - Samanic, Eubanks
C - Poeltl, Bassey, Queta

[mo7888]

that is Isiah Thomas level right there. I love that old school mentality. This is why I would love the Spurs to get this kid.

I find it funny how one of the critiques is his poor 3pt shooting. He is only 18. He is just really beginning his professional journey. I will take an 18 yo, 6'8 ball handler who shots in the 30s% from 3. He has plenty of time to get into the gym and steadily improve his shooting. He has those other innate qualities that make me drool and basketball fan.....court vision, high BBIQ, passing, playmaking, leadership, confidence, tenacity, highly competitive, and willing to play through pain. The shooting will come as he and his body matures.

I sure as hell hope he is on the board when the Spurs pick comes around. To be honest, I want Giddey and Prkacin in the first round. I just don't see anyone we can trade with to get an extra first round pick, the same with an extra 2nd round pick.

But, If I could have my way, we would be able to accrue another first and 2nd, and draft 4 players.

1st
PG - Josh Giddey
SF/PF - Roko Prkacin

2nd
PF/C - Charles Bassey
C - Neemias Queta

Add these guys and subtract Gay, KBD, Dieng, and either let Mills walk or retire and become an assistant coach under Pop. We can re-sign DDR to a contract, hopefully nothing too crazy.

PG - White, Murray, Jones, Giddey
SG - DDR, KJ, Walker, Weatherspoon
SF - Vassell, Prkacin
PF - Samanic, Eubanks
C - Poeltl, Bassey, Queta

I know literally nothing about Prkacin but if GS gets the Minny pick (outside top 3) and keeps their own 1st they are a natural trade partner for one of our younger players for their own 1st.

[B1gduff]

I Don't mind us loosing most of the rest of the games. I know its sucks, but for a future outlooks it might be better. We're 4.5 games away from the 8th pick. This is a really good draft and with our development team could find a gem.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/robeltussin/status/1383463605211779075?s=19

IMO, would make Spurs games exciting again with these sick handles & crossovers

[Russ]

https://twitter.com/OlgunUluc/status/1383356469664391170?s=19

https://twitter.com/OlgunUluc/status/1383358234103148546?s=19

Hopefully he shuts it down


https://youtu.be/JMPB5oRjW20


https://youtu.be/xhEWeew0ZnE

He looks pretty good. Has a bit of Pistol Pete in him.

[timvp]

TimMVP, consider this:
http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=evan-mobley--alperen-sengun
He's producing more against better competition at better percentages...

Alperen over here would still be in high school (he's a year younger than Mobley). Yet he's the MVP in a much tougher league than the NCAA...

Sure, his style is old school big, but let's not pretend he's not a really good one. You may think those passes are "basic" but you tell me which big on our current roster would be able to execute them? (I'd say no one currently; would be funny to watch Poeltl try....) There's not too many bigs in the NBA as whole who could pull those off.

How many big men do we have that could execute a 360 jam in game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTPovKfJ6y4
My answer is none, and at least 1/2 the bigs in the NBA couldn't pull that move. (Maybe 3/4 of the bigs in the NBA).

Yeah, Sengun's production is so intriguing that he's the first player I've done a deep dive on. I was wondering how he wasn't getting more hype based on his numbers alone.

Unfortunately, the more I watch of him, the more I understand the hesitation. He's young, strong, jumps pretty well, has some skill ..... but nothing he does is easily translatable to the NBA. A 6-foot-9 center with slow feet defensively, sub par length for his position, no notable ability to shoot the ball, no off the dribble game -- those are real issues that make him a risk. A shorter, less mobile Ivica Zubac isn't that exciting. Enes Kanter's production is through the roof but he's too slow to defend on the perimeter and not long enough to defend at the rim, which limits his value -- and Sengun looks to be a similar athlete and a bit shorter.

But, again, even though I'm not too high on Sengun (so far, I'd consider him a strong pick at around ~20), I wouldn't hate it if the Spurs pick him. I don't want the Spurs to trade up for him but if he's their selection at 13 or whatever, that's not a terrible pick. Sengun's production is so good that they could invoke the Jokic Rule and ignore the eye-test and trust that someone that productive will be able to figure out how to be productive in whichever league you put him in.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://twitter.com/robeltussin/status/1383463605211779075?s=19

IMO, would make Spurs games exciting again with these sick handles & crossovers

Giddey got some Manu moves in him

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuJj4p0SaOU

[Mnky]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuJj4p0SaOU

Giddy would fit the spurs well. They need a legitimate PG, see the floor general type player. That's Giddeys game. I think he could mesh well if the young spurs continue to develop their 3pt shots. I could see him and Luka having a tough pick and roll to defend. He would definitely help Lonnie get his looks and benefit slashers like keldon and Murray.

I'm all for him with Chip developing his shot.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1383637982964449285?s=19

-understands how to play
-coachable
-pleasant to be around / wonderful guy

Three things I expect the Spurs to look for in prospects this upcoming draft

[EricB]

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1383637982964449285?s=19

-understands how to play
-coachable
-pleasant to be around / wonderful guy

Three things I expect the Spurs to look for in prospects this upcoming draft


the first two yes, this one is down the list a little more.

[mo7888]

As I've been thinking about moving up in the draft and who 'might' be willing to trade I only see 3 teams (and none are highly likely). GS if they get the Minnesota pick conferred, the Cavs, and Sacramento. GS has to do something this offseason to give Curry a shot at another title or they might as well trade him and rebuild. The Cavs might to unload Love. Sacramento if ownership feels like they need to start putting more ready made pieces around Fox. All are unlikely but I can't see anyone else willing to move their picks.

The draft is heavy top 5 (we all know that) and if we can get into that range it would be worth making a move. If we can't I think we should just hold tight or maybe consider selling our pick if the right deal surfaces. I don't think there's value in moving up into the 6-9 range.

[RC_Drunkford]

If they draft Giddey you can bet they will resign Mills

[Sugus]

you can bet they will resign Mills

FTFY, tbh :lol

[keithington1]

Got my eye on Giddey, Kai Jones, and Zaire Williams. They all pass my eye test

[bluebellmaniac]

We're set at PG, but the prospect of having a 6'8" PG would be too good to pass up. Giddy would rock. G-League his first year, then see what he's got. The matchup problems we would cause for other teams would be awesome to watch.

[Dejounte]

We're set at PG, but the prospect of having a 6'8" PG would be too good to pass up. Giddy would rock. G-League his first year, then see what he's got. The matchup problems we would cause for other teams would be awesome to watch.

He could play the 3 and takeover DeMar's role. DeMar is basically our PG right now, so it wouldn't make a difference. It's point guard by committee, they all take turns anyway... so the word "PG" is basically irrelevant now.

[KobesAchilles]

He could play the 3 and takeover DeMar's role. DeMar is basically our PG right now, so it wouldn't make a difference. It's point guard by committee, they all take turns anyway... so the word "PG" is basically irrelevant now.
I don’t know anything about him but do you think he could guard 3s? I guess we could always have Derrick guard the best player for now but it would be nice to have a real 6 foot 8 player at the 3.

[Dejounte]

I don’t know anything about him but do you think he could guard 3s? I guess we could always have Derrick guard the best player for now but it would be nice to have a real 6 foot 8 player at the 3.

The Spurs play so much help D that man to man D is essentially less effective nowadays. Don't get me wrong, it's nice when a player can shut down another player. But those only happen in short spurts these days. What you look for on defense these days is a player who can stay in front of their man and not constantly get blown by. For example, last night Luka was guarding Paul one on one and then Murray came from behind Paul and blocked that shit. Giddey just needs to show he can stay in front of his man and put his arms up, and don't foul. Do those things and he's a good defender. Do I think he can? Sure.

[Teamduncan21]

If they draft Giddey you can bet they will resign Mills

They will resign mills anyway

[KobesAchilles]

The Spurs play so much help D that man to man D is essentially less effective nowadays. Don't get me wrong, it's nice when a player can shut down another player. But those only happen in short spurts these days. What you look for on defense these days is a player who can stay in front of their man and not constantly get blown by. For example, last night Luka was guarding Paul one on one and then Murray came from behind Paul and blocked that shit. Giddey just needs to show he can stay in front of his man and put his arms up, and don't foul. Do those things and he's a good defender. Do I think he can? Sure.
I’m not expecting him to be a lock down defender, especially if he played point all his career. I was just wondering if you think he has the foot speed and the strength to stay with NBA SFs.

**edit** which your last sentence answered. Kinda half heartedly:lol

[Dejounte]

I’m not expecting him to be a lock down defender, especially if he played point all his career. I was just wondering if you think he has the foot speed and the strength to stay with NBA SFs.

**edit** which your last sentence answered. Kinda half heartedly:lol

https://twitter.com/NBL/status/1383335209253236737?s=19

He'll need good hips to defend SFs. He's got good anticipation skills, similar to how Vassell can get steals out of nowhere.

I think from a scale of 0 to 10 with 10 being the highest, I'd rate him a 6.5. Vassell is probably a 8 for comparison. Rudy Gay is a 3.

[rankingtear]

Giddey reminds me of college Kyle Anderson so much. I wonder if a non scoring 6'9 point guard ends up just being a secondary playmaking forward.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/743297685302632451/pSX-RERB_normal.jpg
Jonathan Givony @DraftExpress
(https://twitter.com/DraftExpress) 55m (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1384175574646616071)
Source: The NBA has informed teams that fully-vaccinated NBA personnel are permitted to travel overseas to evaluate draft prospects once again. The NBA had banned international travel since October 9th of 2020.

[Dejounte]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/743297685302632451/pSX-RERB_normal.jpg
Jonathan Givony @DraftExpress
(https://twitter.com/DraftExpress) 55m (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1384175574646616071)
Source: The NBA has informed teams that fully-vaccinated NBA personnel are permitted to travel overseas to evaluate draft prospects once again. The NBA had banned international travel since October 9th of 2020.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZLvXOCsivAI/WP0UvK6HRyI/AAAAAAAATlc/s7KuHMIAGggLUeruyTxj8osTczMzGqS7QCLcB/s1600/ukbJt4P.gif

[KobesAchilles]

I really hope we trade this pick. Too much youth on the team.

[timvp]

Giddey reminds me of college Kyle Anderson so much. I wonder if a non scoring 6'9 point guard ends up just being a secondary playmaking forward.

Yeah, that's how I see Giddey. I like him as a prospect but no way he's a PG in the NBA. His straight-line speed is good but he's not super mobile laterally and his reaction speed is only satisfactory. The good news is, like Kyle Anderson, he is tall enough that you don't need to really worry about his athleticism. Giddey is young enough that he could develop into an average athlete. Right now, he's probably a C-ish athlete but, again, that's not too worrisome due to his height. The most worrisome part of his game is the inconsistency of his shooting form. From shot to shot, his form changes. That should be fixable but it's not what you want to see, even in a young player. I think he has good instincts but his basketball IQ is pretty damn questionable. Way too many bad/weird decisions early in the shot clock ... but that should get straightened out as long as he lands in a good situation.

Behind the scenes, it's hilarious how there are multiple scouts who had a Do Not Draft grade on LaMelo Ball and are now trying to cover up that mistake by hyping up Giddey to the moon sing a LaMelo comparison as part of the justification. Other than trying fancy passes and playing in the Australian league, those two aren't similar at all, really. LaMelo's ball-balling, passing and instincts were at another level. I think Giddey has a chance to be a top ten prospect by the time the draft arrives but there are enough question marks that he's far from a sure thing. As of right now, if the Spurs have the ~14 pick, I'd be happy with picking Giddey. I like him better than Sengun and probably Wagner.

[Dejounte]

Yeah, that's how I see Giddey. I like him as a prospect but no way he's a PG in the NBA. His straight-line speed is good but he's not super mobile laterally and his reaction speed is only satisfactory. The good news is, like Kyle Anderson, he is tall enough that you don't need to really worry about his athleticism. Giddey is young enough that he could develop into an average athlete. Right now, he's probably a C-ish athlete but, again, that's not too worrisome due to his height. The most worrisome part of his game is the inconsistency of his shooting form. From shot to shot, his form changes. That should be fixable but it's not what you want to see, even in a young player. I think he has good instincts but his basketball IQ is pretty damn questionable. Way too many bad/weird decisions early in the shot clock ... but that should get straightened out as long as he lands in a good situation.

Behind the scenes, it's hilarious how there are multiple scouts who had a Do Not Draft grade on LaMelo Ball and are now trying to cover up that mistake by hyping up Giddey to the moon sing a LaMelo comparison as part of the justification. Other than trying fancy passes and playing in the Australian league, those two aren't similar at all, really. LaMelo's ball-balling, passing and instincts were at another level. I think Giddey has a chance to be a top ten prospect by the time the draft arrives but there are enough question marks that he's far from a sure thing. As of right now, if the Spurs have the ~14 pick, I'd be happy with picking Giddey. I like him better than Sengun and probably Wagner.

Streetball is apparently now in session. I covered this a couple pages ago; ultimate confidence in oneself seems to be the key to success. I applaud Giddey's tendency to try crazy shit. We need outside the box thinking on this team over the drive and kick we're so accustomed to these days.

What sets Giddey apart from Kyle, to me, is his handle and his speed. They're probably on the same level with the vision, but Giddey's handle allows him to size up his man and either pull up for a J or pull in a big to allow an easy pass inside.

There aren't many prospects with size where the Spurs are expected to pick from. Most of the guys there will be more combo guards or extremely raw big men (outside of Sengun). I'm tired of the Spurs having to teach prospects basic fundamentals. We need either a guy who's insane enough to try crazy shit (Giddey) or at the very minimum know where to be at all times (Wagner, Vassell).

[Dejounte]

Full games of Giddey:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/973610540?filter=archives&sort=time

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/990593722?filter=archives&sort=time

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/958770387?filter=archives&sort=time

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/948672226?filter=archives&sort=time

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/938932074?filter=archives&sort=time

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/930153485?filter=archives&sort=time

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/925134459?filter=archives&sort=time

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/982193642?filter=archives&sort=time

[pad300]

What scares me about the comparison between Giddey and Slomo, is that Giddey has significant physical disadvantages compared to Slomo...

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=josh-giddey--kyle-anderson

25 lbs less and 7" of wingspan!

Yes, Slomo's biggest issue was his lack of assertiveness on the offensive end, which I don't see with Giddey. But Slomo has the physical profile to play up to the 4...and that wingspan + his brains make him workable on D. Giddey does not show the same level of defensive brains and the physical profile is much less promising...

[timvp]

Streetball is apparently now in session. I covered this a couple pages ago; ultimate confidence in oneself seems to be the key to success. I applaud Giddey's tendency to try crazy shit. We need outside the box thinking on this team over the drive and kick we're so accustomed to these days.

Eh, somewhat agree but not completely. LaMelo isn't streetball, tbh. He has great court vision, so he tries passes that look crazy but actually aren't. His assist-to-turnover ratio has always been good. LaMelo also will shoot from far out but that's because he has a set-shot that he can't fire unless he has room.

Giddey's craziness is shooting step-back toe on the line two-pointers with 15 seconds on the shot clock for no apparent reason, tbh. Shots so bad that they'd make Rudy Gay blush :lol


What sets Giddey apart from Kyle, to me, is his handle and his speed. They're probably on the same level with the vision, but Giddey's handle allows him to size up his man and either pull up for a J or pull in a big to allow an easy pass inside. Mostly agree. Giddey should be a faster player than Kyle. Giddey's ball-handling may or may not translate. I'm not sold either way yet. It probably has a better chance to translate if he's playing SF rather than PG.

[timvp]

What scares me about the comparison between Giddey and Slomo, is that Giddey has significant physical disadvantages compared to Slomo...

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=josh-giddey--kyle-anderson

25 lbs less and 7" of wingspan!

Yes, Slomo's biggest issue was his lack of assertiveness on the offensive end, which I don't see with Giddey. But Slomo has the physical profile to play up to the 4...and that wingspan + his brains make him workable on D. Giddey does not show the same level of defensive brains and the physical profile is much less promising...

Yeah, that's a good point. Kyle Anderson could fallback on being a good defensive player. Giddey isn't going to make it if he's not a plus on the offensive end. An average offensive version of Giddey isn't in the NBA in five years.

But this draft is almost all gambles from pick 6 to about pick 18. The two safest players in that range are probably Mitchell and Kispert ... and even those two players aren't that safe. Mitchell is riding the national championship hype train and Kispert was a second round pick before his senior season. The good thing about Giddey is he has translatable skills and enough height to cover for some shortcomings. Still a gamble though.

[mo7888]

Eh, somewhat agree but not completely. LaMelo isn't streetball, tbh. He has great court vision, so he tries passes that look crazy but actually aren't. His assist-to-turnover ratio has always been good. LaMelo also will shoot from far out but that's because he has a set-shot that he can't fire unless he has room.

Giddey's craziness is shooting step-back toe on the line two-pointers with 15 seconds on the shot clock for no apparent reason, tbh. Shots so bad that they'd make Rudy Gay blush :lol

Mostly agree. Giddey should be a faster player than Kyle. Giddey's ball-handling may or may not translate. I'm not sold either way yet. It probably has a better chance to translate if he's playing SF rather than PG.

I see Giddey as having a much higher upside than Slomo offensively but, I don't think he will ever be as good defensively because of his length or lack thereof.

He's not as passive as Kyle and even though his shooting isn't there right now his mechanics don't look as disjointed as Kyle's. His aggressiveness is a blessing and a curse. Yes he takes bad shots (the curse) but I'd rather have a player who I had to tone down than one I had to motivate.

I think he's a good risk where we will likely pick.

[timvp]

I'm tired of the Spurs having to teach prospects basic fundamentals. We need either a guy who's insane enough to try crazy shit (Giddey) or at the very minimum know where to be at all times (Wagner, Vassell).

Speaking of that latter group, one of the most impressive prospects in this draft is Chris Duarte. Picture-perfect shooting stroke. Takes smart shots. Good passer, good court vision. Doesn't turn it over and doesn't foul. Very good defensive instincts. NBA-ready body. Enough burst to get where he needs to go. It's possible he could start on Day 1.

If Duarte were 20 years old, he'd be an easy call for the sixth spot in this draft. But he'll be 24 on draft day -- a year older than Derrick White was when he was drafted.

I really like Duarte ... but, man, can you really take a 24-year-old in the lottery? I'm not sure you can.

[Dejounte]

Speaking of that latter group, one of the most impressive prospects in this draft is Chris Duarte. Picture-perfect shooting stroke. Takes smart shots. Good passer, good court vision. Doesn't turn it over and doesn't foul. Very good defensive instincts. NBA-ready body. Enough burst to get where he needs to go. It's possible he could start on Day 1.

If Duarte were 20 years old, he'd be an easy call for the sixth spot in this draft. But he'll be 24 on draft day -- a year older than Derrick White was when he was drafted.

I really like Duarte ... but, man, can you really take a 24-year-old in the lottery? I'm not sure you can.

Sure you can.

Would you sign a solid player to a $4 mil per year, 4-year contract in free agency? In free agency, that's a steal.

If there's no one else worth it that's available and if you believe he'll produce, then I don't see why not.

That being said, I'm also tired of going after combo guards.

[exstatic]

Speaking of that latter group, one of the most impressive prospects in this draft is Chris Duarte. Picture-perfect shooting stroke. Takes smart shots. Good passer, good court vision. Doesn't turn it over and doesn't foul. Very good defensive instincts. NBA-ready body. Enough burst to get where he needs to go. It's possible he could start on Day 1.

If Duarte were 20 years old, he'd be an easy call for the sixth spot in this draft. But he'll be 24 on draft day -- a year older than Derrick White was when he was drafted.

I really like Duarte ... but, man, can you really take a 24-year-old in the lottery? I'm not sure you can.

I was looking at him a while back. If he were even 22, you’d have to. A lot of teams passed on White simply because he was 23. Duarte currently is a no brainer anywhere past 15.

[mo7888]

Speaking of that latter group, one of the most impressive prospects in this draft is Chris Duarte. Picture-perfect shooting stroke. Takes smart shots. Good passer, good court vision. Doesn't turn it over and doesn't foul. Very good defensive instincts. NBA-ready body. Enough burst to get where he needs to go. It's possible he could start on Day 1.

If Duarte were 20 years old, he'd be an easy call for the sixth spot in this draft. But he'll be 24 on draft day -- a year older than Derrick White was when he was drafted.

I really like Duarte ... but, man, can you really take a 24-year-old in the lottery? I'm not sure you can.

I think it depends on what kind of team you have. If you're in the lottery with your own you should favor gambling on upside but if you're competing and you have a pick from a trade or maybe you're in the lottery because you star was injured....a ready older player is easier to justify....for us.... I couldn't take him in the lottery....we should gamble on a high ceiling....now if we can acquire another pick I'd look hard at him.

[timvp]

Sure you can.

Would you sign a solid player to a $4 mil per year, 4-year contract in free agency? In free agency, that's a steal.

If there's no one else worth it that's available and if you believe he'll produce, then I don't see why not.

Yeah, money-wise, he's worth it. The part that's difficult to figure out is how much to value Duarte compared to the possible ceilings of some of these other prospects. For example, Scottie Barnes is underwhelming right now but if he figures it out, his absolute ceiling is a superstar. Keon Johnson is probably in that same boat. Even someone like Sengun who I don't really love has a chance to develop into a bigger, craftier Montrezl Harrell if things break right in his development.



That being said, I'm also tired of going after combo guards.

Duarte has broad shoulders and enough strength that I think he can play on the wing. But, yeah, the foursome of Murray, White, Duarte and Johnson would be too small. You'd have to pick three.

[timvp]

I was looking at him a while back. If he were even 22, you’d have to. A lot of teams passed on White simply because he was 23. Duarte currently is a no brainer anywhere past 15.Agreed that he's an easy pick outside of the lottery. If he were 22, he'd be an easy pick outside of the top ten. If the Spurs have a 12-14 pick in the lottery, then drafting Duarte would be tough ... but I'm not ready to say it'd be a bad idea.


I think it depends on what kind of team you have. If you're in the lottery with your own you should favor gambling on upside but if you're competing and you have a pick from a trade or maybe you're in the lottery because you star was injured....a ready older player is easier to justify....for us.... I couldn't take him in the lottery....we should gamble on a high ceiling....now if we can acquire another pick I'd look hard at him.Yeah, this was my initial reaction. Duarte back in the Duncan Years would have been a no-brainer. I think now you have to gamble on upside. But it depends on who will be available. Some of these upside guys are so questionable that they're almost not even worth it. Would I pass on Duarte for future headache Jalen Johnson, chuker Cam Thomas or all athlete, no skill Greg Brown? Eh.

[Seventyniner]

Sure you can.

Would you sign a solid player to a $4 mil per year, 4-year contract in free agency? In free agency, that's a steal.

That's not quite apples-to-apples. The opportunity cost of drafting Duarte is not having that pick to take someone else. The opportunity cost of signing him to a 4/16 deal in free agency would be only the loss of that cap space or chunk of the MLE.

I do see your point. Unless the Spurs can swing a trade for a major piece, I don't think a 24-year-old fits the timeline, especially at guard. If Duarte really is as polished and ready as LJ (and perhaps you) think then I can see the appeal.

[Dejounte]

That's not quite apples-to-apples. The opportunity cost of drafting Duarte is not having that pick to take someone else. The opportunity cost of signing him to a 4/16 deal in free agency would be only the loss of that cap space or chunk of the MLE.

I do see your point. Unless the Spurs can swing a trade for a major piece, I don't think a 24-year-old fits the timeline, especially at guard. If Duarte really is as polished and ready as LJ (and perhaps you) think then I can see the appeal.

Well, yeah. The condition I stated was that there would be no other prospects the Spurs would miss out on from where they pick. From there, the opportunity cost is zero. They would have to be 100% convinced that the other prospects aren't worth it.

[rjv]

He could play the 3 and takeover DeMar's role. DeMar is basically our PG right now, so it wouldn't make a difference. It's point guard by committee, they all take turns anyway... so the word "PG" is basically irrelevant now. in today's game, if you have a 6'8" ball handler with a skill set you can find a way to get him on the court, regardless of whether or not you have several possible PGs on the floor at once. but these players have to mesh. one never knows how murray's game or white's game would potentially suffer if they did not have the ball in their hands.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/609457974415896576/yhzsQNk9_normal.png (https://twitter.com/hoopshype) HoopsHype (https://twitter.com/hoopshype) (https://twitter.com/hoopshype) Hoopshype (https://twitter.com/hoopshype)




Execs poll: Nikola Mirotic is the top player outside the NBA; Aussie draft prospect at No. 2. hoopshype.com/lists/nba-exec… (https://t.co/jpiwZw3Lru)
12:31pm · 19 Apr 2021 (https://twitter.com/hoopshype/status/1384198079520276486) · Twitter Web App (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[exstatic]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/609457974415896576/yhzsQNk9_normal.png (https://twitter.com/hoopshype) HoopsHype (https://twitter.com/hoopshype) (https://twitter.com/hoopshype) Hoopshype (https://twitter.com/hoopshype)




Execs poll: Nikola Mirotic is the top player outside the NBA; Aussie draft prospect at No. 2. hoopshype.com/lists/nba-exec… (https://t.co/jpiwZw3Lru)
12:31pm · 19 Apr 2021 (https://twitter.com/hoopshype/status/1384198079520276486) · Twitter Web App (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)
Cage match: Mirotic and Bobby Portis for a roster spot.

[Seventyniner]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/609457974415896576/yhzsQNk9_normal.png (https://twitter.com/hoopshype) HoopsHype (https://twitter.com/hoopshype) (https://twitter.com/hoopshype)Hoops (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8733)hype




Execs poll: Nikola Mirotic is the top player outside the NBA; Aussie draft prospect at No. 2. hoopshype.com/lists/nba-exec… (https://t.co/jpiwZw3Lru)
12:31pm · 19 Apr 2021 (https://twitter.com/hoopshype/status/1384198079520276486) · Twitter Web App (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

But what about Milutinov?

[mo7888]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/609457974415896576/yhzsQNk9_normal.png (https://twitter.com/hoopshype) HoopsHype (https://twitter.com/hoopshype) (https://twitter.com/hoopshype) Hoopshype (https://twitter.com/hoopshype)




Execs poll: Nikola Mirotic is the top player outside the NBA; Aussie draft prospect at No. 2. hoopshype.com/lists/nba-exec… (https://t.co/jpiwZw3Lru)
12:31pm · 19 Apr 2021 (https://twitter.com/hoopshype/status/1384198079520276486) · Twitter Web App (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

Interesting tidbit in there....they claim Sengun is now 6' 10"

[Thomas82]

If we can't luck out and get Evan Mobley, I would rather have Kai Jones.

[duncan2150]

If we can't luck out and get Evan Mobley, I would rather hI save Kai Jones.

I started more homework on Jones, i understand the hype with his athletism, mobility, some outside game.... but i have some problems analysing his ceilling ( quite difficult with every rookie lol). The numbers were not stunning at Texas so i'm icurious to know what people see in him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTgHZ0gQlsA
Interesting video about him

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1384275211327991809

Don't expect the developmental program through Austin to change anytime soon...

[bluebellmaniac]

https://twitter.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1384275211327991809

Don't expect the developmental program through Austin to change anytime soon...

A big chunk is the culture. The culture is a winning thing.

[longhorn]

I started more homework on Jones, i understand the hype with his athletism, mobility, some outside game.... but i have some problems analysing his ceilling ( quite difficult with every rookie lol). The numbers were not stunning at Texas so i'm icurious to know what people see in him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTgHZ0gQlsA
Interesting video about him

I watched a lot of Texas' games this year, and from the first game, Kai Jones jumped off the screen as the guy I wanted the Spurs to draft--this was before mock drafts caught on, and Greg Brown was still seen to be the Longhorn most likely to be a lotto pick.

His ceiling is one of the bigger mysteries of this draft class. In theory, it's incredibly high.

He started playing organized basketball at 15. He has a combination of length and athleticism that can't be taught and his shot mechanics are pretty good (room for improvement but not in need of a complete remodel). He has good 3pt range for his size. Being long and athletic, he's almost an ideal modern big if he can put it all together. Rim running and 3pt shooting on offense, defender who can switch on guards in the P&R. Dude has whipped out some impressive Eurosteps on drives to the bucket, too. He flashes some special, special stuff.

The big thing with Kai is the stuff that takes time to develop, and having started playing basketball as late as he did, it makes sense. Lacks refinement in the post-up game. Makes some boneheaded decisions on both sides of the ball.

Kai improved a TON from his freshman year to sophomore season, which is why he rocketed up draft boards. Scouts tuned in to watch potential one-and-done Greg Brown and Kai Jones was the guy they ended up falling in love with. The dude simply jumps off the screen. You have to like to see that year-to-year improvement, and wonder if it will continue. He's a ball of clay for a coaching staff to develop, but has all star potential.

You never know with some of these guys who start playing basketball late. If they have the mentality and work-ethic to be great, they can become stars. I'm not by any means suggesting Kai has a Giannis level ceiling, but they are similar in terms of guys who started late, but have size/athletic ability and an unrefined but promising set of skills.

I'd be thrilled if we drafted Kai--his ceiling is EXACTLY what our glut of young guards need to be paired with--but I also know he's a major boom/bust project.

[Mr. Body]

Bigs out of Texas haven't exactly lit the world on fire lately.

[SpurPadre]

Inching closer to being out of the lottery and back to 1 and done in the playoffs.

[exstatic]

Inching closer to being out of the lottery and back to 1 and done in the playoffs.

I don’t see it. They’ll almost certainly be in the play in bracket, but we’ll lose as soon as we play GS. We’ll be in the lottery. Waited too long to get their shit together.

[rankingtear]

Moses Moody is a good prospect. 6'6 205 with 7ft wingspan. Not many good 3 and D wing with a Harden-esque free throw rate.

[duncan2150]

I watched a lot of Texas' games this year, and from the first game, Kai Jones jumped off the screen as the guy I wanted the Spurs to draft--this was before mock drafts caught on, and Greg Brown was still seen to be the Longhorn most likely to be a lotto pick.

His ceiling is one of the bigger mysteries of this draft class. In theory, it's incredibly high.

He started playing organized basketball at 15. He has a combination of length and athleticism that can't be taught and his shot mechanics are pretty good (room for improvement but not in need of a complete remodel). He has good 3pt range for his size. Being long and athletic, he's almost an ideal modern big if he can put it all together. Rim running and 3pt shooting on offense, defender who can switch on guards in the P&R. Dude has whipped out some impressive Eurosteps on drives to the bucket, too. He flashes some special, special stuff.

The big thing with Kai is the stuff that takes time to develop, and having started playing basketball as late as he did, it makes sense. Lacks refinement in the post-up game. Makes some boneheaded decisions on both sides of the ball.

Kai improved a TON from his freshman year to sophomore season, which is why he rocketed up draft boards. Scouts tuned in to watch potential one-and-done Greg Brown and Kai Jones was the guy they ended up falling in love with. The dude simply jumps off the screen. You have to like to see that year-to-year improvement, and wonder if it will continue. He's a ball of clay for a coaching staff to develop, but has all star potential.

You never know with some of these guys who start playing basketball late. If they have the mentality and work-ethic to be great, they can become stars. I'm not by any means suggesting Kai has a Giannis level ceiling, but they are similar in terms of guys who started late, but have size/athletic ability and an unrefined but promising set of skills.

I'd be thrilled if we drafted Kai--his ceiling is EXACTLY what our glut of young guards need to be paired with--but I also know he's a major boom/bust project.

Thanks, he's for sure an interesting and intriguing player. As a Texas player, i'm sure RC knows him pretty well.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/1384517245557088259

[mo7888]

https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/1384517245557088259

Really interested to see what the Warriors do if they have Wiseman, the Minny pick, and their own 1st....

[R. DeMurre]

https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/1384517245557088259

Yep. I bet if Bob Myers had a do over, he'd trade the pick for an asset + a later pick, and grab Haliburton. The Death Lineup & the Hamptons Five pretty much proved that they don't need or want a traditional center down there clogging the paint.

[timvp]

I watched a lot of Texas' games this year, and from the first game, Kai Jones jumped off the screen as the guy I wanted the Spurs to draft--this was before mock drafts caught on, and Greg Brown was still seen to be the Longhorn most likely to be a lotto pick.

His ceiling is one of the bigger mysteries of this draft class. In theory, it's incredibly high.

He started playing organized basketball at 15. He has a combination of length and athleticism that can't be taught and his shot mechanics are pretty good (room for improvement but not in need of a complete remodel). He has good 3pt range for his size. Being long and athletic, he's almost an ideal modern big if he can put it all together. Rim running and 3pt shooting on offense, defender who can switch on guards in the P&R. Dude has whipped out some impressive Eurosteps on drives to the bucket, too. He flashes some special, special stuff.

The big thing with Kai is the stuff that takes time to develop, and having started playing basketball as late as he did, it makes sense. Lacks refinement in the post-up game. Makes some boneheaded decisions on both sides of the ball.

Kai improved a TON from his freshman year to sophomore season, which is why he rocketed up draft boards. Scouts tuned in to watch potential one-and-done Greg Brown and Kai Jones was the guy they ended up falling in love with. The dude simply jumps off the screen. You have to like to see that year-to-year improvement, and wonder if it will continue. He's a ball of clay for a coaching staff to develop, but has all star potential.

You never know with some of these guys who start playing basketball late. If they have the mentality and work-ethic to be great, they can become stars. I'm not by any means suggesting Kai has a Giannis level ceiling, but they are similar in terms of guys who started late, but have size/athletic ability and an unrefined but promising set of skills.

I'd be thrilled if we drafted Kai--his ceiling is EXACTLY what our glut of young guards need to be paired with--but I also know he's a major boom/bust project.

Good write-up. Mostly agree.

Generally speaking, I'm not a fan of drafting hustle bigs. They're just not valuable enough even when they pan out. IMO, it's smarter to gamble on a guard or a wing because those are so much more valuable when they pan out.

But Kai's trajectory of improvement and the perimeter aspects of his game make me like him more than a standard hustle big. He's another player where if he hits the top 1% of his outcomes, you might have a star on your hands.

Last year's draft didn't have many potential stars outside of LaMelo and Edwards. This year's draft has a lot. The problem will be that most of these potential stars will end up busting in spectacular fashion, so it'll be a gamble. Even Kai specifically has probably a ~70% chance of never being more than a bench big ... but also enough upside that I wouldn't have a problem with the Spurs picking him at ~14.

[rankingtear]

A good comp I heard on Kai Jones is Chris Boucher. A stretch backup big as his realistic outcome. Ultimately I think he is a 2nd contract guy, the team that would probably benefit from his development is not the team that drafts him.

[timvp]

https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/1384517245557088259

Wiseman was terrible this season, tbh. As I wrote previously, he was Golden State's tank commander. His highlights looked good but he was clueless. Warriors locked their spot in the play-in tournament when Wiseman's meniscus snapped.

Another rookie who has been much worse than his highlights has been Patrick Williams. No one wants to admit it but he doesn't look that good and he's a big reason why the Bulls are flailing. His true position appears to be power forward but he's a bad rebounder so they've tried to shoehorn him as a SF. It's not working, tbh. He's not quick enough to defend perimeter players and he doesn't shoot enough threes to space the court on the other end. Williams is still really young so he has a chance to turn it around but he belongs in that same Wiseman category right now.

[Russ]

Kai Jones would be my choice at between 10 and 15.

His upside looks high -- you don't often get such a combination of shooting ability, skills, athleticism, size and motor. If he fills out (which he should) he could become a monster.

Plus, the Spurs have had great success with bigs from the Islands.

[Dejounte]

RE: Kai Jones


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKjhTvqytOc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM8j5jzZFiA

All-star potential bigs usually produce big numbers in college. The ones that don't become nothing more than role players in the NBA.

Just because Kai flashed a little bit of a handle doesn't mean he'll become Giannis. Giannis is a freak athlete.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=kai-jones--anthony-davis--joel-embiid--karl-anthony-towns

With that being said, I wouldn't mind having a Nicolas Claxton-type player on this team.

[exstatic]

RE: Kai Jones


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKjhTvqytOc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM8j5jzZFiA

All-star potential bigs usually produce big numbers in college. The ones that don't become nothing more than role players in the NBA.

Just because Kai flashed a little bit of a handle doesn't mean he'll become Giannis. Giannis is a freak athlete.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=kai-jones--anthony-davis--joel-embiid--karl-anthony-towns

With that being said, I wouldn't mind having a Nicolas Claxton-type player on this team.

Me neither. Just don’t want to spend a lottery pick on one.

[pad300]

To my mind, the big issue with drafting a Kai Jones on "tools and potential", is that you can get a Kai Jones type in the 2nd round:

https://jtmbasketball.blogspot.com/2021/01/scouring-nation-part-2-ej-onu.html

[ragas]

RE: Kai Jones


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKjhTvqytOc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM8j5jzZFiA

All-star potential bigs usually produce big numbers in college. The ones that don't become nothing more than role players in the NBA.

Just because Kai flashed a little bit of a handle doesn't mean he'll become Giannis. Giannis is a freak athlete.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=kai-jones--anthony-davis--joel-embiid--karl-anthony-towns

With that being said, I wouldn't mind having a Nicolas Claxton-type player on this team.

Bam Adebayo had only slightly better per40 numbers than Kai. If he‘s there the Spurs should take him. I like the potential. If he doesn‘t pan out, so be it. Better than taking a sure thing role player.

[exstatic]

Bam Adebayo had only slightly better per40 numbers than Kai. If he‘s there the Spurs should take him. I like the potential. If he doesn‘t pan out, so be it. Better than taking a sure thing role player.

Bam is the exception, not the rule. Kind of like hoping that you can turn any 6’7” wing with a 7’3” span into Kawhi.

[ragas]

Bam is the exception, not the rule. Kind of like hoping that you can turn any 6’7” wing with a 7’3” span into Kawhi.

if you have no top pick, you have to go for these exceptions.

[exstatic]

if you have no top pick, you have to go for these exceptions.

I’m kind of with Timvp on this one: if you’re hoping to catch lightning in a bottle, you’re more likely to do that with a guard or wing.

[Dejounte]

if you have no top pick, you have to go for these exceptions.

If that was the case, we would have ended up with Nassir Little and not Keldon Johnson

[exstatic]

If that was the case, we would have ended up with Nassir Little and not Keldon Johnson

Thank god THAT didn’t happen.

[ragas]

I’m kind of with Tim on this one: if you’re hoping to catch lightning in a bottle, you’re more likely to do that with a guard or wing.

I saw him play several times this season and I believe in his potential. Sure, there are some interesting wings in the 8-20 range, but no one who I would take over him. If one of the projected 1-7 guys slips, I would think about it.

[ragas]

If that was the case, we would have ended up with Nassir Little and not Keldon Johnson

We? No, not at all.

[Dejounte]

We? No, not at all.

Yes

[ragas]

Yes

You, not we. ;-)
You would have also drafted Jalen Smith instead of Vassell. I like Kai Jones more than every wing in his range, but feel free to have another opinion.

[Dejounte]

You, not we. ;-)
You would have also drafted Jalen Smith instead of Vassell. I like Kai Jones more than every wing in his range, but feel free to have another opinion.

I've admitted I was wrong about Vassell. The book isn't closed for Jalen but after recognizing the trend where the NBA is heading, my draft philosophy has shifted to 1) acknowledging wings are more valuable than bigs today and 2) mobility from your bigs is extremely important. Seeing how Wiseman has performed this season has soured me on these unicorn type bigs. The NBA has simply passed bigs by.

You're free to have your opinion. I responded with a "yes" to your "no" because you didn't say much in response to my post.

[ragas]

I've admitted I was wrong about Vassell. The book isn't closed for Jalen but after recognizing the trend where the NBA is heading, my draft philosophy has shifted to 1) acknowledging wings are more valuable than bigs today and 2) mobility from your bigs is extremely important. Seeing how Wiseman has performed this season has soured me on these unicorn type bigs. The NBA has simply passed bigs by.

You're free to have your opinion. I responded with a "yes" to your "no" because you didn't say much in response to my post.

you won‘t find a more mobile big than Kai Jones with Mobley being the exception.

[The Truth #6]

One factor with Kai is UT. It seems a lot of bigs get picked from there and they generally don’t develop their players, as in their numbers are typically weak unless your a HOF talent that can’t be ignored (Durant). Didn’t Myles Turner play there? He fulfilled at least some of his potential, but may be the exception.

[mo7888]

If you subscribe (I don't) Chad Ford has his scouting report/ analysis up now on Wagner....

FRANZ WAGNER SCOUTING REPORT

"Wagner’s versatility, on both the offensive and defensive ends, is what makes him a standout prospect. He’s been an analytics darling ... ticking many of the statistical boxes that point to being an effective NBA player.”

Here's the teaser he tweeted..

[exstatic]

you won‘t find a more mobile big than Kai Jones with Mobley being the exception.

Isaiah Jackson says hello.

[The Truth #6]

https://youtu.be/yoDROPsaRSo

NBA Draft Junkies on Sengun. It’s not a long segment and it’s mostly curated clips with different areas to focus on. Jump to 3:33 to see more of his passing highlights. I go back-and-forth with him. The only reason to take him would be if he has serious upside as a passing big man, in my opinion.

IF he does have superior passing, AND you could play inside out with him (a lot of maybes), then our glut of guards becomes advantageous as you could play Sengun down low have him either use his old school post moves down low or pass to cutters or shooters. The path to that seems low, but it’s a path to consider and it means Yak may need to go, otherwise we would be drafting a backup big that doesn’t seem to shoot from outside.

To be clear, I don’t see this happening, but I finally see a path for how he could fit.

[The Truth #6]

https://youtu.be/HBIENrGNxmI

NBA Draft Junkies focus on international prospects.

[BackHome]

Well done “ The Truth” I follow this cat his Vids are very good lots of information in it. I kinda agree with him if you want the beautiful game you need guys who can handle the ball and be able to hit the open man.

[Dejounte]

IF the Spurs are trying to make it work with Markkanen as a PF next to Poeltl, I don't see why Sengun wouldn't work either. He may not be as good of a shooter, but he's potentially (likely) better as a passer, post-up big man. So because there are different ways you can utilize him on offense, he could be playable there. If the Spurs think otherwise, it may be because they want a flat out elite shooter that they could see Markkanen become-- and Sengun can't.

[longhorn]

To my mind, the big issue with drafting a Kai Jones on "tools and potential", is that you can get a Kai Jones type in the 2nd round:

https://jtmbasketball.blogspot.com/2021/01/scouring-nation-part-2-ej-onu.html

Kai Jones is more than 3 years younger than EJ Onu and hasn't been playing organized basketball as long, so he is much more likely to have a hidden ceiling and room for further development than a four-year college player like Onu.

The basic player archetype and toolkit is similar, but EJ Onu is not a "Kai Jones type" beyond that. And that's why Kai Jones is a consensus lotto pick.

[timvp]

I've been watching more of Tennessee to get a better handle on Keon Johnson. I continue to like him. He's raw, needs a year in the G League and he may never pan out but he is a great athlete with star potential.

But, surprisingly, the player who caught my eye even more is Johnson's teammate Jaden Springer. I know Dejounte doesn't want to hear about a 6-foot-4 combo guard but Springer is legitimately really intriguing. IIRC, he's the youngest American in the draft. He's 6-foot-4, built like Keldon Johnson and already understands how to use that strength to his advantage. Very good footwork. Shooting stroke isn't the best but he shot 81% at the line and 43.5% on threes, so tough to complain. Defense is where he really shines. Add elite quickness to his strength and he's a terror one-on-one. Also really good team-wise.

Obviously, the Spurs don't exactly need yet another 6-foot-4 combo guard but Springer is legit. I think he has star upside at some point down the road. If his shooting turns out to be a fluke (which is possible), he could level off as a backup. But there's enough young Chauncey Billups in him that I'd be happy with the Spurs picking him at any spot after 10 or so.

As my guy TD 21 states, the Spurs don't have anyone good enough to worry about building around at this point. That's why I'd be happy with Springer even though there's no glaring need for him. Besides, he's so much younger than White that they wouldn't even really be in the same generation. Springer would be ready to roll once White is declining.



On the other side of the coin, the more I watch Scottie Barnes, the less I like. There's a sliver of hope that he figures it all out and becomes a star but there's also a really good chance that he's the next Ekpe Udoh. Udoh was billed as being able to defend every position and being such a good passer that you could ignore his offensively shortcomings. But it turned out he was such a non-factor on offense that you couldn't even put him on the court. Barnes could be in that same boat. He has really good defensive potential but I just don't see what he does on offense. Yeah, his passing looks good on the college level but, in the NBA, you have to be some sort of threat to be a good passer. Barnes' jumper looks broken, he has bad touch in the paint and he's not that amazing of an athlete. I could understand the Spurs gambling on Barnes at 14 or 15 but my expectations wouldn't be that high.