Official San Antonio Spurs 2021 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

[R. DeMurre]

If you believe that the NBA would prefer for Zion to be in the playoffs, that’s definitely an argument for the refs favoring Zion and NO. I don’t like conspiracy theories, but the NBA, like every other billion dollar business, likes to prioritize profits over ethics. Just rambling, but I can see NO moving ahead of us. It’s definitely possible. But NO always finds ways to lose no matter how much the league props them up.

I'm not worried about any conspiracies-- I just think a season ending collapse like the recent Boston game collapse is not out of the question.

[SpurPadre]

2.5 games back from 9th pick and 1.5 games back from 10th! It's within reach!

[Dejounte]

2.5 games back from 9th pick and 1.5 games back from 10th! It's within reach!

Eh Kings aren't getting past the Spurs even if the Spurs lose all the remaining games.

[SpurPadre]

Eh Kings aren't getting past the Spurs even if the Spurs lose all the remaining games.

They've been playing well lately and we're playing them at Sac next game. It's not out of the realm of possibility. Even if they don't get past the Spurs, 10th pick is still well within reach.

[mo7888]

Eh Kings aren't getting past the Spurs even if the Spurs lose all the remaining games.

Spurs, okc, okc, Memphis, and Memphis.... those are 5 winnable games.... if they beat us Friday they have a reasonable shot...

[Dejounte]

Spurs, okc, okc, Memphis, and Memphis.... those are 5 winnable games.... if they beat us Friday they have a reasonable shot...

I didn't realize they play the Spurs next. However, the Spurs usually win games their fans don't want them to, so...

And I don't see them winning a single game vs Memphis. Memphis is trying to get in better playoff positioning and get JJJ in game shape. If the Kings go 3-2 (with Spurs going 0-7), they don't pass the Spurs, I believe.

[mo7888]

I didn't realize they play the Spurs next. However, the Spurs usually win games their fans don't want them to, so...

And I don't see them winning a single game vs Memphis. Memphis is trying to get in better playoff positioning and get JJJ in game shape. If the Kings go 2-6 (with Spurs going 0-7), they don't pass the Spurs, I believe.

I think the Kings win 4 more.... I think Nola wins 3 more.... honestly I think we go 2-5 at best....it's going to be real close between all 3 teams... a small bit of extra effort could be the difference..

[Dejounte]

I think the Kings win 4 more.... I think Nola wins 3 more.... honestly I think we go 2-5 at best....it's going to be real close between all 3 teams... a small bit of extra effort could be the difference..

10th or 11th would be so sweet but I have a bad feeling Kispert or Mitchell aren't going to be taken in the top 10 like they're being projected to be... Hopefully someone out of the blue rises.

[mo7888]

10th or 11th would be so sweet but I have a bad feeling Kispert or Mitchell aren't going to be taken in the top 10 like they're being projected to be... Hopefully someone out of the blue rises.

I think in that range (or at least I hope) that Wagner or Moody will be available... I'm still very high on Wagner... he's #6 on my personal board....

[SpurPadre]

I didn't realize they play the Spurs next. However, the Spurs usually win games their fans don't want them to, so...

And I don't see them winning a single game vs Memphis. Memphis is trying to get in better playoff positioning and get JJJ in game shape. If the Kings go 3-2 (with Spurs going 0-7), they don't pass the Spurs, I believe.

I did mention in my response that they played the Kings next.

[Degoat]

Every year I try to go into the draft being opened to whoever the spurs draft because honestly its just good to get new young talent on the team. With that being said, I’m not a fan of Wagner lol maybe he’ll grow on me but he seems like one of those guys who has a great college career but doesn’t translate to the NBA

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1390146798451400704?s=19

It's words like this by Pop that make me believe a strict PG type will be last priority in the draft. He's hardly thrown these words for past PGs post-Parker. He didn't do it for Hill, Corey Joseph, even Murray (not this early).

[SpurPadre]

Every year I try to go into the draft being opened to whoever the spurs draft because honestly its just good to get new young talent on the team. With that being said, I’m not a fan of Wagner lol maybe he’ll grow on me but he seems like one of those guys who has a great college career but doesn’t translate to the NBA

Could it be due to his lack of elite athleticism?

[Dejounte]

Could it be due to his lack of elite athleticism?

Aside from Kuminga and Barnes, name your forwards who you believe has elite athleticism.

I'll wait.

[SpurPadre]

Aside from Kuminga and Barnes, name your forwards who you believe has elite athleticism.

I'll wait.

Hey, I'm a beggar not a chooser so if he was the best player available and we were on the clock, then by all means get him. I was merely replying to a post that questioned Wagner's prospects and if we're being objective, his lack of elite athleticism is not a made up thing about him.

[spurs1990]

Got a sour taste on Wagner after watching him brick his way down the stretch in the UCLA eilte 8 loss. Maybe he was off but couldn't hit that college 3 one bit

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/qzbwEJWdoF0

Getting to the rim with ease here

Would be nice to have a player who can generate easy points for himself and his teammates

[KobesAchilles]

https://youtu.be/qzbwEJWdoF0

Getting to the rim with ease here

Would be nice to have a player who can generate easy points for himself and his teammates
im sold get me that player. He’s like Joe Ingles as a floor.

[Mnky]

https://youtu.be/qzbwEJWdoF0

Getting to the rim with ease here

Would be nice to have a player who can generate easy points for himself and his teammates

Best thing is he has that old man game. Crafty like Doncic and Paul. His lack of athleticism won't hold him back because his game isn't reliant on it.

He's so young too, has so much room to grow with better players around him. He would make great use of the athletes the spurs have.

My big thing is he has to want to score when the team is in the spotlight. I believed a point forward is what this young core of the spurs needs the most. A general that will ease the game for the less intuitive players. If he's up to that task, he would fit in so well.

[Degoat]

Could it be due to his lack of elite athleticism?

I just feel like he’s the token college player whos successful in college but doesn’t adjust to the nba, I mean his brother Mo Wagner was great in college and he’s barely still in the league. I wouldn’t be mad if we drafted him but his ceiling is that of a role player and spurs need to be looking for guys with a higher ceiling imo

[Dejounte]

Mainstream media catching on....

https://theathletic.com/2554168/2021/05/06/2021-nba-mock-draft-4-0-davion-mitchell-josh-giddey-jump-into-top-10-plus-player-and-team-fits/

Giddey at #10
Franz at #11
Jalen Johnson at #18
Kispert at #20
Jeremiah Earl Robinson at #27

Pretty much how I fear how it will go.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/WorldWideWob/status/1390132296884408322

We're counting on the Pacers to improve the Spurs' draft position?

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/Shot_Quality/status/1390350005035208707

[The Truth #6]

https://youtu.be/qzbwEJWdoF0

Getting to the rim with ease here

Would be nice to have a player who can generate easy points for himself and his teammates

I saw your earlier comment about Tre Jones. Yeah, would the Spurs draft Giddey? I hope so. But to dive deeper into Giddey, can he play off the ball? I mention that because if they see upside there, then that could be another factor for the Spurs to draft him.

I bring that up because we already have Dejounte Murray and White. Personally, I'd like Dejounte to start, play big minutes, but share ball handling duties with someone else, so that really Dejounte becomes more of a 2 guard.

Giddey could become a glue guy type in the beginning, or at least I hope. He rebounds, for example. But his lack of proven jumper with the lack of shooting already on this team could be the biggest concern—not about Giddey specifically, but about team needs and fits.

Those are my random Giddey thoughts.

[stnick2261]

https://twitter.com/tom_orsborn/status/1390146798451400704?s=19

It's words like this by Pop that make me believe a strict PG type will be last priority in the draft. He's hardly thrown these words for past PGs post-Parker. He didn't do it for Hill, Corey Joseph, even Murray (not this early).

While I agree this your post overall, Pop did say George Hill was his favorite player and "actively worked to trade Parker". Albeit, that was CIA Pop because that ended up raising Hill's trade value and he traded Hill right after for Kawhi Leonard and Davis Bertans. (Spurs also drafted Corey Joseph that draft)

Since then, I believe Pop has lost that CIA mojo and he just cares more about character than basketball skill and doesn't want to trade anyone anymore.

[duncan2150]

I did'nt notice that Giddey plays with brandon paul, RC with the phone call lol

I like Giddey, he is talented, i just wonder how he can play with murray or white because they are all better with the ball.

[Russ]

I like Giddey, he is talented, i just wonder how he can play with murray or white because they are all better with the ball.

I think this team just needs to take the best player.

[TD 21]

I did'nt notice that Giddey plays with brandon paul, RC with the phone call lol

I like Giddey, he is talented, i just wonder how he can play with murray or white because they are all better with the ball.

White is injury prone, going on 27 and probably no better than a third option on a good team and Murray is a player who has no place on a good team, since he's useless off ball and on ball, is a secondary creator who's unable/willing to consistently generate/convert high value shots.

Even with this organization's bizarre aversion to making unforced trades, neither should factor into the calculus in relation to the draft, especially with a lottery pick.

If they had any sense, they'd trade both, Poeltl and Walker IV and essentially start over.

[BacktoBasics]

White is injury prone, going on 27 and probably no better than a third option on a good team and Murray is a player who has no place on a good team, since he's useless off ball and on ball, is a secondary creator who's unable/willing to consistently generate/convert high value shots.

Even with this organization's bizarre aversion to making unforced trades, neither should factor into the calculus in relation to the draft, especially with a lottery pick.

If they had any sense, they'd trade both, Poeltl and Walker IV and essentially start over.
This forum loves to say stupid shit. Any sense? You’re not going to move those 4 players for higher value and even if you could move them for equal value and arguably a better fit this team lacks any definitive identity to reap a benefit from it. Unless you can package a combination of those 4 to acquire a star player I don’t see any reason to make trades simply to make trades. Making trades for fit only comes after your team as a clear identity and long term path.

[TD 21]

This forum loves to say stupid shit. Any sense? You’re not going to move those 4 players for higher value and even if you could move them for equal value and arguably a better fit this team lacks any definitive identity to reap a benefit from it. Unless you can package a combination of those 4 to acquire a star player I don’t see any reason to make trades simply to make trades. Making trades for fit only comes after your team as a clear identity and long term path.

Newsflash: They don't have much value and it's less about that and more so about finding a foundation a good team can be built on because they're not it and it's time to stop wasting time, resources and money pretending they are. Only an arrogant/stupid organization would operate otherwise

Load up on picks, spend a few years selecting in the high-mid lottery and they should easily come away with a more talented core than them to add to Johnson and Vassell.

[duncan2150]

I think this team just needs to take the best player.


i agree 100% but then i try to figure how they will play together. Ok they could trade someone but if not how they will play is my question.

In fact they can play white murray and giddey PG/SG and give other minutes to Walker. That's the same question if we draft another PG.

[rjv]

This forum loves to say stupid shit. Any sense? You’re not going to move those 4 players for higher value and even if you could move them for equal value and arguably a better fit this team lacks any definitive identity to reap a benefit from it. Unless you can package a combination of those 4 to acquire a star player I don’t see any reason to make trades simply to make trades. Making trades for fit only comes after your team as a clear identity and long term path.


lots of armchair GMs in this forum.

[TD 21]

lots of armchair GMs in this forum.

Uh yeah, it's kind of the whole point of this.

Take off the rose colored glasses and you'll see that it doesn't take a genius to realize this organization is way behind the times and the team is severely lacking in talent.

[BackHome]

Take the most talented kid and figure out how to fit him in latter

[rjv]

Uh yeah, it's kind of the whole point of this.

Take off the rose colored glasses and you'll see that it doesn't take a genius to realize this organization is way behind the times and the team is severely lacking in talent.

quite a leap from seeing the obvious and acting as if one's solutions are so much more informed. and the point of this thread isn't necessarily to come up with even more extreme solutions. for me, it's to discuss the viable options are out there and get legit scouting reports on those individual players. some posters in here are pretty good at sharing their finds.

[BacktoBasics]

Newsflash: They don't have much value and it's less about that and more so about finding a foundation a good team can be built on because they're not it and it's time to stop wasting time, resources and money pretending they are. Only an arrogant/stupid organization would operate otherwise

Load up on picks, spend a few years selecting in the high-mid lottery and they should easily come away with a more talented core than them to add to Johnson and Vassell.
Newsflash: Doing what you’re suggesting will likely create a bigger problem and end up with this team circling the drain for way longer. Funny how you seem to think that this logic can be selectively applied. IE this organization is inept and should blow it up because what their doing isn’t working. Yet blowing it up somehow means that this same inept organization can navigate being a perpetual bottom feeder with greater success. There’s really no evidence that suggests trading away talent for unforeseen potential will end up improving this team.

They’re way better off massaging the roster until they can pull off a solid needle moving trade, strong signing or diamond in the rough draft pick in a position of need.

[BacktoBasics]

Uh yeah, it's kind of the whole point of this.

Take off the rose colored glasses and you'll see that it doesn't take a genius to realize this organization is way behind the times and the team is severely lacking in talent.
Honestly I think our fans are behind the times every time they suggest blowing up the roster to go on a fishing expedition for a game changing top 3 pick.

Philly is maybe the closest example of stocking piling assets resulting in a successful run. At best they’re a borderline contender of the verge of coming apart and if SA had Philly’s roster you’d want to blow it up too.

I don’t think your suggestion is the best path. Not to mention you’ll leverage fans and attendance once we get into next season and open up games to fans.

[TD 21]

quite a leap from seeing the obvious and acting as if one's solutions are so much more informed. and the point of this thread isn't necessarily to come up with even more extreme solutions. for me, it's to discuss the viable options are out there and get legit scouting reports on those individual players. some posters in here are pretty good at sharing their finds.

All I'm saying is what they have isn't going a foundational upon which to build a successful team, so they might as well put themselves in position to do so instead of continuing to waste time.



Newsflash: Doing what you’re suggesting will likely create a bigger problem and end up with this team circling the drain for way longer. Funny how you seem to think that this logic can be selectively applied. IE this organization is inept and should blow it up because what their doing isn’t working. Yet blowing it up somehow means that this same inept organization can navigate being a perpetual bottom feeder with greater success. There’s really no evidence that suggests trading away talent for unforeseen potential will end up improving this team.

They’re way better off massaging the roster until they can pull off a solid needle moving trade, strong signing or diamond in the rough draft pick in a position of need.

You don't have to be all that intelligent to pick no brainer superstars and stars though. It's not about evidence, it's about having a clean slate and better chance instead of being stubborn and pretending to be smarter than everyone while continuing to flounder.

That's just it, they won't be able to pull off a needle moving trade with what they have and relying on diamond in the rough draft picks reeks of arrogance and stupidity.



Honestly I think our fans are behind the times every time they suggest blowing up the roster to go on a fishing expedition for a game changing top 3 pick.

Philly is maybe the closest example of stocking piling assets resulting in a successful run. At best they’re a borderline contender of the verge of coming apart and if SA had Philly’s roster you’d want to blow it up too.

I don’t think your suggestion is the best path. Not to mention you’ll leverage fans and attendance once we get into next season and open up games to fans.

Nah, it's the front office and apologists of them that fill this board who are behind the times.

Again, there are no certainties beyond the best odds of getting foundational pieces are picking as high as possible for a while.

[BacktoBasics]

All I'm saying is what they have isn't going a foundational upon which to build a successful team, so they might as well put themselves in position to do so instead of continuing to waste time.

You don't have to be all that intelligent to pick no brainer superstars and stars though. It's not about evidence, it's about having a clean slate and better chance instead of being stubborn and pretending to be smarter than everyone while continuing to flounder.

That's just it, they won't be able to pull off a needle moving trade with what they have and relying on diamond in the rough draft picks reeks of arrogance and stupidity.




Nah, it's the front office and apologists of them that fill this board who are behind the times.

Again, there are no certainties beyond the best odds of getting foundational pieces are picking as high as possible for a while.


You saying “You don't have to be all that intelligent to pick no brainer superstars and stars though. It's not about evidence”

Says all we need to know about your analysis.

So you got a plan that takes little to no intelligence to pull off yet you can’t cite any examples of this working. If you can’t reference anything to support your argument maybe it’s time to realize that you’re the one who’s wrong.

[The Truth #6]

Here's a player we most likely won't draft because he plays point guard and can't shoot well, but has some decent skills. Unlikely to last to the second round, but cool to keep on the radar. I'm honing in on players who have strong passing. To me that suggests they have solid processing and that is a trait that usually doesn't magically improve, like, say, shooting, which, again, he sucks at presently.

With that introduction, here is: Sharife Cooper from Auburn — https://youtu.be/Ct9aYO8LyP8

[The Truth #6]

Speaking of players who can pass and not shoot, here is someone who plays winning basketball, in theory. His defensive intensity is insane. He seems to have great on and off ball defensive chops. Perfect body type for the modern game. Great athlete and wingspan, et cetera. His offense is horrible and that puts a hard cap on his playability, but the Spurs aren't going to be competing for championship anytime soon so he seems like a good risk, especially with his ridiculously positive attitude which bodes well for improvement. I think he is out of our range, but with his shooting issues I can see him falling while Giddey rises.

A shorter version of David Robinson on meth but with no offensive game.

Here is Scottie Barnes: https://youtu.be/FW88eB7X4Jg

[Dejounte]

Speaking of players who can pass and not shoot, here is someone who plays winning basketball, in theory. His defensive intensity is insane. He seems to have great on and off ball defensive chops. Perfect body type for the modern game. Great athlete and wingspan, et cetera. His offense is horrible and that puts a hard cap on his playability, but the Spurs aren't going to be competing for championship anytime soon so he seems like a good risk, especially with his ridiculously positive attitude which bodes well for improvement. I think he is out of our range, but with his shooting issues I can see him falling while Giddey rises.

A shorter version of David Robinson on meth but with no offensive game.

Here is Scottie Barnes: https://youtu.be/FW88eB7X4Jg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWIPl1hTKpk

Not a huge fan because of two things:

1) Like you said, his poor shooting. But I think it's worse than that: he has low awareness on offense. Often watches the ball and doesn't move around. Finds himself in the wrong places on offense. He'll do that thing like Lonnie where he takes two dribbles forward and then pass it out. His lack of confidence in his offensive ability (even though he is athletic) will drive people nuts.
2) His defense is overrated. In the same manner people confused KG's screaming and high intensity for "winning attitude", Scottie does the same thing... claps his hands to taunt the ball handler. Umm... that's not that impressive. Yes, he has good lateral speed. But people are looking at Scottie and all his antics as if that equates to good defense.S

All that said, Scottie is the type of guy I'll settle for in different scenarios.

[GAustex]

Sounds a little like Jericho Sims high flying UT center. Amazing athlete who was a major disappointment. Real fast though.

[The Truth #6]

Perhaps I just wanted to compare someone to “David Robinson on meth”. Lol. Yeah, I hear your points. All valid. I may have it backwards. He may actually be rising, which isn’t the worst thing for us. I still like his attitude in theory but we need aggressive players not histrionic. In contrast we have Luka. Pretty quiet dude, but on the court he hasn’t been shy lately about trying to force his game.

On a further tangent, I’d love to start Luka and Keldon as our forwards next year. If our coach could commit to that, then in this draft someone like Duarte or Moody might be who they take.

[The Truth #6]

Vrenz has all the markings of someone who doesn't just sneak into the 1st round, but goes higher than people here are expecting.

I agree. Yet in every mock draft I’ve read the last few days, he isn’t even mentioned in the top 75. If he isn’t drafted they should at least do a camp invite.

http://www.tankathon.com/big_board

[The Truth #6]

Speaking of Euros and mock drafts, it sure feels like there are way less euros getting mentioned in this draft.

Theory: covid has severely restricted scouting of European players and a team with strong European scouting connections could find huge steals in the second round. Granted, this seems less likely in the internet age, but less games have been played in most places. Anyway, something seems off.

[PhantomDashCam]

If we’re looking at Florida State guys, would be very interested in RaiQuan Gray for the 2nd round. Lots of tools to work with and shot is improving. Conditioning is perhaps an issue but very mobile for his size/weight.

[duncan2150]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWIPl1hTKpk

Not a huge fan because of two things:

1) Like you said, his poor shooting. But I think it's worse than that: he has low awareness on offense. Often watches the ball and doesn't move around. Finds himself in the wrong places on offense. He'll do that thing like Lonnie where he takes two dribbles forward and then pass it out. His lack of confidence in his offensive ability (even though he is athletic) will drive people nuts.
2) His defense is overrated. In the same manner people confused KG's screaming and high intensity for "winning attitude", Scottie does the same thing... claps his hands to taunt the ball handler. Umm... that's not that impressive. Yes, he has good lateral speed. But people are looking at Scottie and all his antics as if that equates to good defense.S

All that said, Scottie is the type of guy I'll settle for in different scenarios.


I agree about offense but his defense is not overrated, he has the body and lenght to guard a lot of positions. And watching some of his games, he is a good defender, good at stealing the ball and one on one D.
And you talk about a fundamental thing : lateral speed for someone of his size/body that's pretty impressive.

[Dejounte]

I agree about offense but his defense is not overrated, he has the body and lenght to guard a lot of positions. And watching some of his games, he is a good defender, good at stealing the ball and one on one D.
And you talk about a fundamental thing : lateral speed for someone of his size/body that's pretty impressive.


https://i.ibb.co/SyykYm2/Barnes-3.png

https://i.ibb.co/8PhWC87/Barnes-4.png

https://i.ibb.co/Z1xYvym/Barnes-2.png

I circled where Scottie's man is and how Scottie allowed them to be so wide open.

It wasn't very hard finding these. He does this frequently.

This is already a huge problem on the current Spurs.

Again, Scottie does a good job APPEARING like a good defender, but in reality, he watches the ball a lot and is out of position frequently.

Do you want the Spurs to keep getting bombarded by open 3's?

[R. DeMurre]

Second round sleeper? Julian Champagnie led the Big East in scoring, was named to the All Big East First Team (along with James Bouknight and Jeremiah Robinson-Earl), and won Most Improved Player of the conference. He's a young sophomore, still 19, meaning he's younger than some freshmen prospects. The one characteristic that caught my eye was his penchant for taking & making contested threes. He shot 38% on the year taking these, so what might he shoot in the NBA as a specialist who gets lots of open looks?


https://nypost.com/2021/02/15/st-johns-enjoying-julian-champagnies-breakout-season/
https://www.wyexpect.com/stories/2021-nba-draft-sleepers-st-johns-julian-champagnie-is-hiding-in-plain-sight
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/julian-champagnie-1.html (https://www.wyexpect.com/stories/2021-nba-draft-sleepers-st-johns-julian-champagnie-is-hiding-in-plain-sight)

[R. DeMurre]

Interesting read: https://www.wyexpect.com/stories/2021-what-you-expect-nba-draft-big-board

[duncan2150]

https://i.ibb.co/SyykYm2/Barnes-3.png

https://i.ibb.co/8PhWC87/Barnes-4.png

https://i.ibb.co/Z1xYvym/Barnes-2.png

I circled where Scottie's man is and how Scottie allowed them to be so wide open.

It wasn't very hard finding these. He does this frequently.

This is already a huge problem on the current Spurs.

Again, Scottie does a good job APPEARING like a good defender, but in reality, he watches the ball a lot and is out of position frequently.

Do you want the Spurs to keep getting bombarded by open 3's?

So you talk about one aspect of his D, he could not evolve ? and what about the man on man D ? the switchability ?

And again i don't understand what is APPEARING a good defender, you good or not, you have the tools/ the motor or not ?

Not saying you're not right but the conclusion is too simple IMO.

[The Truth #6]

Second round sleeper? Julian Champagnie led the Big East in scoring, was named to the All Big East First Team (along with James Bouknight and Jeremiah Robinson-Earl), and won Most Improved Player of the conference. He's a young sophomore, still 19, meaning he's younger than some freshmen prospects. The one characteristic that caught my eye was his penchant for taking & making contested threes. He shot 38% on the year taking these, so what might he shoot in the NBA as a specialist who gets lots of open looks?


https://nypost.com/2021/02/15/st-johns-enjoying-julian-champagnies-breakout-season/
https://www.wyexpect.com/stories/2021-nba-draft-sleepers-st-johns-julian-champagnie-is-hiding-in-plain-sight
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/julian-champagnie-1.html (https://www.wyexpect.com/stories/2021-nba-draft-sleepers-st-johns-julian-champagnie-is-hiding-in-plain-sight)



Great find! In my opinion, in this draft we really need shooting and passing, and this guy looks to be an incredible shooter, without the horrible defense. Nice.

[exstatic]

Interesting read: https://www.wyexpect.com/stories/2021-what-you-expect-nba-draft-big-board

I drilled through to another article on Senior PGs and the markers for a good get They listed every PG drafted in the last ten years who played at least 10 NCAA games, and have a PER of at least 15. They came up with 7 value seniors, who were probably drafted too low. White and Brogdon were there, as you might imagine. Anyway, he came up with a list of commonalities. I had been thinking about Duarte. I know he’s not a PG, but I ran him through the matrix, and as a SG, he hit every marker but one: asst/TO ratio, which wouldn’t be as important to a SG. I think he’s going to come in and produce from day 1 for somebody. He’ll probably go late first, but if he drops, you’ve got to take him in the 2nd round. He’s an NBA player, right now.

[The Truth #6]

I drilled through to another article on Senior PGs and the markers for a good get They listed every PG drafted in the last ten years who played at least 10 NCAA games, and have a PER of at least 15. They came up with 7 value seniors, who were probably drafted too low. White and Brogdon were there, as you might imagine. Anyway, he came up with a list of commonalities. I had been thinking about Duarte. I know he’s not a PG, but I ran him through the matrix, and as a SG, he hit every marker but one: asst/TO ratio, which wouldn’t be as important to a SG. I think he’s going to come in and produce from day 1 for somebody. He’ll probably go late first, but if he drops, you’ve got to take him in the 2nd round. He’s an NBA player, right now.

I’d be ok with Duarte in the first round. Especially as a backup plan.

[exstatic]

I’d be more ok with Duarte in the first round. Especially as a backup plan.

At 11-14? That’s probably a reach. A big one.

[bluebellmaniac]

Here's to wishing that our 0.5% to 2% chance of moving up to a top 4 pick pans out....

Burning those mexican candles until the lottery....

https://celebcandle.com/products/keanu-reeves-celebrity-prayer-candle?variant=33263247327320&currency=USD&gclid=Cj0KCQjwytOEBhD5ARIsANnRjVgawVO0HR7BpKzsHYBY F7vSx6t-gUtPYhsDT7eUymgsJb0weH1XSjAaAlvpEALw_wcB

[BackHome]

Yeah Duarte is a huge reach where will be picking - I still think when we pick we might have a good chance for Moody, Wagner, and Giddey, and definitely Sengun and Bouknight.

[LCM]

If you know you aren't extending Lonnie, would you trade him for a chance at Duarte?

[TD 21]

You saying “You don't have to be all that intelligent to pick no brainer superstars and stars though. It's not about evidence”

Says all we need to know about your analysis.

So you got a plan that takes little to no intelligence to pull off yet you can’t cite any examples of this working. If you can’t reference anything to support your argument maybe it’s time to realize that you’re the one who’s wrong.

Way to take what I said out of context.

You not realizing that this young core lacks elite or high end talent and that by far the most likely way to get that is to pick high for a while, says all we need to know about your analysis.

Again, you want examples of elite or high end talent leading to championships or at least contention, but there are no guarantees other than they at least give you a conceivable path to it. I'll take that over the current dead end.



If you know you aren't extending Lonnie, would you trade him for a chance at Duarte?

I'd probably prefer Butler or Mann, but I get the gist and agree. It's hard to nail down Walker IV's value (top 20ish pick?) though.

[exstatic]

If you know you aren't extending Lonnie, would you trade him for a chance at Duarte?

You mean grab an extra pick? Because even if we miss the lottery, Duarte is almost certain to be there.

[BackHome]

I don’t see Duarte being picked before 17 and I don’t see us having a pick worse then 13

[BatManu20]

Zion out for the season. So much for potentially passing the Pelicans in the draft lottery.


1390774643657691141

[BackHome]

Aww shit well forget New Orleans catching us as they sitting out Zion for the season due to broke finger - Given them A on tanking they definitely don’t want to draft after us. Well plaid well plaid.

[Dejounte]

Aww shit well forget New Orleans catching us as they sitting out Zion for the season due to broke finger - Given them A on tanking they definitely don’t want to draft after us. Well plaid well plaid.

Yeah, he broke his finger on purpose.

[The Truth #6]

At 11-14? That’s probably a reach. A big one.

After the top 5-7 it seems like there are a lot of gamble vs reach scenarios. I'd prefer to have Giddey, Moses Moody, Bouknight, maybe Jared Springer. But yeah, it would be a reach as far as what is discussed now. But isn't this all a lot of speculation and consensus building? Upside is always prioritized. But is that always worth it? Players are so young and immature that I don’t see a 23 year old as being too old.

I suppose I'm prioritizing skills for this draft: passing and shooting. Duarte seems like a really, really good shooter. It feels like the Desmond Bane situation. I get that we have to gamble on upside, but I think this team REALLY needs shooters and maybe I don't want to gamble on a Kai Jones? I'm debating it.

[exstatic]

After the top 5-7 it seems like there are a lot of gamble vs reach scenarios. I'd prefer to have Giddey, Moses Moody, Bouknight, maybe Jared Springer. But yeah, it would be a reach as far as what is discussed now. But isn't this all a lot of speculation and consensus building? Upside is always prioritized. But is that always worth it? Players are so young and immature that I don’t see a 23 year old as being too old.

I suppose I'm prioritizing skills for this draft: passing and shooting. Duarte seems like a really, really good shooter. It feels like the Desmond Bane situation. I get that we have to gamble on upside, but I think this team REALLY needs shooters and maybe I don't want to gamble on a Kai Jones? I'm debating it.

I like Duarte, but would never pick him in the lottery. He’ll be 24 on draft day, btw. If Duarte is your guy, you don’t reach. You either trade back, picking up extra assets, or flip a youngster for a later pick in the 20ish area. Houston has 3 picks, and two of them are currently at 21, and 24.

[R. DeMurre]

Here's to wishing that our 0.5% to 2% chance of moving up to a top 4 pick pans out....

Burning those mexican candles until the lottery....

https://celebcandle.com/products/keanu-reeves-celebrity-prayer-candle?variant=33263247327320&currency=USD&gclid=Cj0KCQjwytOEBhD5ARIsANnRjVgawVO0HR7BpKzsHYBY F7vSx6t-gUtPYhsDT7eUymgsJb0weH1XSjAaAlvpEALw_wcB

:lol

[The Truth #6]

I like Duarte, but would never pick him in the lottery. He’ll be 24 on draft day, btw. If Duarte is your guy, you don’t reach. You either trade back, picking up extra assets, or flip a youngster for a later pick in the 20ish area. Houston has 3 picks, and two of them are currently at 21, and 24.

Yeah, that’s good strategy. Makes sense given the prevailing strategies. On a tangent, I still feel there is a legitimate conversation to have about floor vs ceiling et cetera. The NBA is a copycat league. Lots of group think. But I digress...

[LCM]

You mean grab an extra pick? Because even if we miss the lottery, Duarte is almost certain to be there.

Yeah, get an extra pick. The Rockets and Knicks have 2 picks apiece between 21 - 25.

[bluebellmaniac]

8 Days until we know our Final Record (for Lottery purposes)

45 Days until the Lottery

82 Days until the Draft

[rankingtear]

Looked into Bouknight, mocked at 20+ now. Same problems with Lonnie, when you can't run pick and rolls you are basically a wing. And his projection as an off-ball guard is more questionably than Lonnie's.

[Dejounte]

I'm trying to understand how the draft order works if the Spurs beat the play-in...

If by season's end the Spurs are sitting with the 11th pick and are the 10th seed, if they beat the play-in they fall to 15th?

If they're the 12th, they fall to 16th?

13th to 17th?

Seems like 11th pick would be the best scenario... Either get good playoff experience for the young guys if they beat the play-in OR get a nice pick at 11th if they lose.

[timvp]

I'm trying to understand how the draft order works if the Spurs beat the play-in...

If by season's end the Spurs are sitting with the 11th pick and are the 10th seed, if they beat the play-in they fall to 15th?

If they're the 12th, they fall to 16th?

13th to 17th?

Seems like 11th pick would be the best scenario... Either get good playoff experience for the young guys if they beat the play-in OR get a nice pick at 11th if they lose.
The playoff teams are put in reverse record order starting with pick 15. So if the Spurs make the playoffs, it'll depend on what other teams make the playoffs. It's pretty safe to say, though, that it will be 15 or 16.

[rankingtear]

I'm trying to understand how the draft order works if the Spurs beat the play-in...

If by season's end the Spurs are sitting with the 11th pick and are the 10th seed, if they beat the play-in they fall to 15th?

If they're the 12th, they fall to 16th?

13th to 17th?

Seems like 11th pick would be the best scenario... Either get good playoff experience for the young guys if they beat the play-in OR get a nice pick at 11th if they lose.

After the play in they would rank all lottery teams by winning percentage then that is the order for the lottery, playoffs teams the same thing.

[Dejounte]

The playoff teams are put in reverse record order starting with pick 15. So if the Spurs make the playoffs, it'll depend on what other teams make the playoffs. It's pretty safe to say, though, that it will be 15 or 16.

Good to know. Thanks. 11th would indeed be the most ideal.

[Biggems]

I hate only having 2 picks....call me greedy, but I want 4....two in each round.

I want to rid ourselves of DeRozen, Gay, and Mills. Let the youth play. Get Poeltl some help inside, but still keep Eubanks as a solid sub.

I want

PG Josh Giddey (though, I would move him to backup SF, play the Point Forward role that Pippen and Lebron have done, even Nephew.)
F/C Alperen Sengun
C Neemias Queta
F/C Jay Huff or F/C Charles Bassey


PG - Murray, White, Jones
SG - Walker, Vassell, Weatherspoon
SF - Johnson, Giddey
PF - Huff/Bassey, Samanic, Eubanks
C - Poeltl, Sengun, Queta

This leaves us 1 open roster spot for a UFA, UDFA, or just in case. We would have depth throughout our roster finally, except for at SF. With Queta, Sengun and either Huff or Bassey, we add 3 players who can clog the paint, block shots, rebound, and take a lot of pressure of Poeltl. Also, all 3 can step out beyond the arc and hit 3s on a regular basis, giving our offense flexibility, while still allowing our D to be stronger.

Hell, we could even try Samanic at SF to give us more depth there.


One potential FA I really like is Mo Bamba. I am a Horns homer and I really liked his defense at Texas. He has improved his outside shooting in the NBA. IMO, he could be a potential Serge Ibaka lite if a team would give him a chance.

[R. DeMurre]

It's gonna be a sad draft day if the Spurs, after getting annihilated in the first round, miss out on Moody, Bouknight, Wagner, and Giddey...

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

I can’t wait for the draft lottery and combine.

[exstatic]

It's gonna be a sad draft day if the Spurs, after getting annihilated in the first round, miss out on Moody, Bouknight, Wagner, and Giddey...

We’re not getting to the playoffs. We MIGHT win the 9/10 game, depending on what it is, but if the Lakers lose that first game, there is no way the NBA lets them miss the playoffs. It would be LA/Sacto 2000 WCF level bullshit.

[objective]

13th pick here we come.

Time to get focused on the next player Pop will geld and bury until they're swag-free and over themselves.

[Kurgan]

13th pick here we come.

Time to get focused on the next player Pop will geld and bury until they're swag-free and over themselves.

What Spurs fan isn't looking forward to watching them draft another middling talent with a role player ceiling. Also, we can all look forward to that player spending his entire rookie season in the G-League. Exciting times up ahead for this franchise.

[Degoat]

I wonder how teams around the league would value a future 1st round pick from the spurs, I know we shouldn’t trade draft capital but if the spurs really like a guy in the upcoming draft I wonder how far we could move up if we traded this years pick plus a future first.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/slRgSQ7rflY

[Dejounte]

Pacers are a real threat to take someone the Spurs might need, IMO. They're the only team left I hope ends up passing the Spurs up in the standings.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/MikeSGallagher/status/1391423354201018371?s=19

Where all my Wiseman fanbois at?

[KobesAchilles]

https://twitter.com/MikeSGallagher/status/1391423354201018371?s=19

Where all my Wiseman fanbois at?
I wanted Lamelo over him. I assumed he was going #1 tbh. Then Minny did what Minny does :lol

[R. DeMurre]

Interesting to see if Wiseman's rough rookie experience has an effect on Evan Mobley's draft position...

[Russ]

Where all my Wiseman fanbois at?

Interesting to see if Wiseman's rough rookie experience has an effect on Evan Mobley's draft position...

Wiseman is the 4th leading scorer on Golden State as we speak (11.5 points per game).

He also shoots 52% and get 6 rebounds per game.

Let's not go overboard.

[Leetonidas]

I wanted Lamelo over him. I assumed he was going #1 tbh. Then Minny did what Minny does :lol

Anthony Edwards is looking like he may be worth that pick though tbh

[exstatic]

https://twitter.com/MikeSGallagher/status/1391423354201018371?s=19

Where all my Wiseman fanbois at?

If they offered Wiseman and Wiggins for a highly protected pick, to get rid of Wiggins contract, I’d do it in a cold minute. He played like 3 games at U Memphis, and was thrown right into the fire. Put him in the gym with Timmy for the summer.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Wiseman is the 4th leading scorer on Golden State as we speak (11.5 points per game).

He also shoots 52% and get 6 rebounds per game.

Let's not go overboard.

Meh forget about his counting stats. His advanced numbers are horrid. Unplayable.

[exstatic]

Interesting to see if Wiseman's rough rookie experience has an effect on Evan Mobley's draft position...

Wiseman sample was like 3 games. Mobley played a full season. He’s more of a known quantity.

[Russ]

Wiseman sample was like 3 games. Mobley played a full season. He’s more of a known quantity.

Wiseman played 39 games this year for Golden State.

[exstatic]

Wiseman played 39 games this year for Golden State.

Off context. He was wondering if Mobley’s stock would be hurt by Wiseman. Wiseman was, for all intents and purposes, a direct HS jump. He wasn’t ready. Mobley is more ready after a full year of NCAA.

[Russ]

Off context. He was wondering if Mobley’s stock would be hurt by Wiseman. Wiseman was, for all intents and purposes, a direct HS jump. He wasn’t ready. Mobley is more ready after a full year of NCAA.

I'd take either one of them in a heartbeat, in fact they are both number 1 (to me) in successive drafts.

[Dejounte]

I'd take either one of them in a heartbeat, in fact they are both number 1 (to me) in successive drafts.

You're living in the past with these kinds of comments. Bigs aren't that valuable anymore in today's NBA. In a few years, Wiseman will probably be another has-been like Mo Bamba or Hassan Whiteside.

[Russ]

You're living in the past with these kinds of comments. Bigs aren't that valuable anymore in today's NBA. In a few years, Wiseman will probably be another has-been like Mo Bamba or Hassan Whiteside.

One man's past is another man's present (or even future).

When GS "reached'' to draft a midget like Steph Curry, some thought they were living in the past.

If you fight the last war, rather than looking forward, you'll always be Sacramento.

[J_Paco]

You're living in the past with these kinds of comments. Bigs aren't that valuable anymore in today's NBA. In a few years, Wiseman will probably be another has-been like Mo Bamba or Hassan Whiteside.

Bamba is only 22 years old and in his third season. Now, he could wash out completely - especially with Carter Jr. also on the Magic roster - but it's still too early tell. Also, his 'counting stats' aren't too dissimilar to Jakob and he's been primarily a back up. (Can he become the 'stretch 5' they envisioned 3 years ago?)

Hassan is what he is but has also carved out a NBA career after originally being a flame out in Sacramento.

The stretch 5 is where everyone wants to go, but it hasn’t become a league wide trend just yet, IMO.

[TD 21]

I'll believe it when I see it, but it'll be interesting to see if the league helps out a franchise that that didn't thumb their nose up at the play-in (when they had every reason to) in an attempt to improve their lottery odds (conversely, I wonder if the Raptors conveniently drop for doing the opposite).

If they want this to be taken seriously, then teams like this need to be rewarded.



Interesting to see if Wiseman's rough rookie experience has an effect on Evan Mobley's draft position...

Mobley is much more skilled. Supposedly the best big prospect since Towns or maybe even Embiid.



You're living in the past with these kinds of comments. Bigs aren't that valuable anymore in today's NBA. In a few years, Wiseman will probably be another has-been like Mo Bamba or Hassan Whiteside.

Yet the best player in the playoffs last season was a big and they're about to go 1-2 in MVP voting.

The best ones of this era are pre and early prime and generally haven't been put in position to have a chance to win a championship unlike these big wings who have successfully gamed the system and brainwashed the masses into thinking only they can be the best player on a championship team.

[Russ]

Bamba is only 22 years old and in his third season.

In that regard, just last Wednesday, Bamba had 19 points and 15 rebounds. I'd take it.

[R. DeMurre]

Bigs are less valuable than they used to be, sure, but I think it's an overstatement to say they're not useful or sought after anymore. Utah, Philly, and Phoenix have the three best records in the league and each features a more or less traditional big. Anthony Davis set a record for Player Efficiency Rating in the final last year while winning a championship, and Nikola Jokic is a few months away from being named the MVP. Granted, Jokic is nontraditional-- but he's still a big.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://twitter.com/MikeSGallagher/status/1391423354201018371?s=19

Where all my Wiseman fanbois at?

I’m still on the train. Also still on the Kira Lewis express. Who foresaw the Pels using Zion as a defacto PG for most of the season (basically pushing Kira to 4th on the depth chart)?

As long as injuries don’t derail his career, I suspect he’ll be a major force in 2-3 years. Too much talent, character, work ethic to fail.

GS have gone full MVP Steph ball and are risking the longevity of his career by squeezing into a play in tournament.

Will be interested in what moves they make come the Off season to stay competitive next year.
I suspect they may dangle Wiseman as the centrepiece for a hard run at Bradley Beal.

[timvp]

https://twitter.com/MikeSGallagher/status/1391423354201018371?s=19

Where all my Wiseman fanbois at?

Shouldn't be a surprise, tbh:

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=289877&page=5&p=10479543&viewfull=1#post10479543

Wiseman had a terrible rookie season, tbh. Extremely low feel, which was the worry based on his high school tape. Makes his production (which wasn't even that impressive) meaningless. He has the tools to improve but it will take a while. The Spurs' lowest feel player is probably Lonnie but he is Manu Reincarnate compared to Wiseman.

[KobesAchilles]

Anthony Edwards is looking like he may be worth that pick though tbh
Is he? I thought he was just a chucker who doesn’t lift teammates and takes horrible shots. Not that I’ve been paying attention to him, but dude has all the tools of being a chucker. Low assist, high FGA, low shooting percentage. They basically redrafted Wiggins

[exstatic]

I’m still on the train. Also still on the Kira Lewis express. Who foresaw the Pels using Zion as a defacto PG for most of the season (basically pushing Kira to 4th on the depth chart)?

As long as injuries don’t derail his career, I suspect he’ll be a major force in 2-3 years. Too much talent, character, work ethic to fail.

GS have gone full MVP Steph ball and are risking the longevity of his career by squeezing into a play in tournament.

Will be interested in what moves they make come the Off season to stay competitive next year.
I suspect they may dangle Wiseman as the centrepiece for a hard run at Bradley Beal.

If Minny keeps their pick, 1-3, then GS has only Wiseman as an asset to move Wiggins.

[timvp]

Is he? I thought he was just a chucker who doesn’t lift teammates and takes horrible shots. Not that I’ve been paying attention to him, but dude has all the tools of being a chucker. Low assist, high FGA, low shooting percentage. They basically redrafted Wiggins

Edwards has been better than I thought and I was high on him last year. He looks like he could be a legit franchise player who may actually be able to impact winning and losing unlike like KAT who is obviously really talented. In a few seasons, Edwards looks like he'll be a big time scorer and competitor who can pass well enough. Add in rapidly improving defense and he's looking like a no-brainer top two pick in the draft. I'd only rate Ball ahead of him.

[pad300]

Ok, I'm bored. Dejounte needs something to do with the season winding down, SO:

Roko Prkacin is a better prospect than Franz Wagner!

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=roko-prkacin--franz-wagner

Defend your man-crush Dejounte!

[Dejounte]

Ok, I'm bored. Dejounte needs something to do with the season winding down, SO:

Roko Prkacin is a better prospect than Franz Wagner!

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=roko-prkacin--franz-wagner

Defend your man-crush Dejounte!

Brother, I don't really care what other people think these days lmao

[TD 21]

I’m still on the train. Also still on the Kira Lewis express. Who foresaw the Pels using Zion as a defacto PG for most of the season (basically pushing Kira to 4th on the depth chart)?

As long as injuries don’t derail his career, I suspect he’ll be a major force in 2-3 years. Too much talent, character, work ethic to fail.

GS have gone full MVP Steph ball and are risking the longevity of his career by squeezing into a play in tournament.

Will be interested in what moves they make come the Off season to stay competitive next year.
I suspect they may dangle Wiseman as the centrepiece for a hard run at Bradley Beal.

I saw him play part of an exhibition game at Duke and knew within' a few minutes that would ultimately be his role. I don't know what took the Pelicans so long or why Van Gundy is being praised for doing the obvious.

Even if Beal is ready to ask out, Wiseman has not shown enough to be the centerpiece of the package.

[PhantomDashCam]

I saw him play part of an exhibition game at Duke and knew within' a few minutes that would ultimately be his role. I don't know what took the Pelicans so long or why Van Gundy is being praised for doing the obvious.

Even if Beal is ready to ask out, Wiseman has not shown enough to be the centerpiece of the package.

In the NBA...based on an exhibition game? Full credit to you if you did.
I think we'll see his role diversify more as his career progresses. The ripple effect across the roster of having your PF basically play PG most of the game seems untenable long term if only for the mismatched skills you'd find across those lineups. Kira at some point has to play consistently and in a way that makes sense ie. Dynamic Lead ball handling guard with upside, based on a reason why you'd draft him in the first place.
Was never a fan of pairing Steven Adams with that roster. Solved one problem but introduced countless others.
Big Off-season for them. Everyone but Z should be on the table.

[KobesAchilles]

Edwards has been better than I thought and I was high on him last year. He looks like he could be a legit franchise player who may actually be able to impact winning and losing unlike like KAT who is obviously really talented. In a few seasons, Edwards looks like he'll be a big time scorer and competitor who can pass well enough. Add in rapidly improving defense and he's looking like a no-brainer top two pick in the draft. I'd only rate Ball ahead of him.
You would know better than me, seeing as I haven't seen a Wolves game since we played them :lol
I kinda see just his highlights, but just from a stats standpoint, dangerous way to make an analysis I know, he looks kinda shitty. 40% from 2. 32% from 3. He doesn't assist. And as a rookie I can almost guarantee he doesn't defend. He's like 20 I think and plenty of room for improvement. But Minny can't develop talent for shit and I don't think he's going to really improve that much in sucha shitty organization. He will be a stat stuffer like Towns

[exstatic]

:lol. Anyone else notice that Minny has slipped out of the Top 3, and their pick is currently earmarked for GS? They could draw into the top 3, but damn. They still owe GS a pick in 2023, too.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

:lol. Anyone else notice that Minny has slipped out of the Top 3, and their pick is currently earmarked for GS? They could draw into the top 3, but damn. They still owe GS a pick in 2023, too.

It'll be funny if GS get the 6th or 7th pick. It won't be valuable enough and with Wiseman having a terrible season it'll make their best Beal offer very underwhelming.

They don't owe GS their 2023 pick. If this year's is top 3 then they owe them next year's, unprotected.

[R. DeMurre]

:lol. Anyone else notice that Minny has slipped out of the Top 3, and their pick is currently earmarked for GS? They could draw into the top 3, but damn. They still owe GS a pick in 2023, too.

Someone making decisions using a Magic 8 ball or a ouija board would've easily outperformed the FO of the Timberwolves in the last 15 years.

[R. DeMurre]

In the NBA...based on an exhibition game? Full credit to you if you did.
I think we'll see his role diversify more as his career progresses. The ripple effect across the roster of having your PF basically play PG most of the game seems untenable long term if only for the mismatched skills you'd find across those lineups. Kira at some point has to play consistently and in a way that makes sense ie. Dynamic Lead ball handling guard with upside, based on a reason why you'd draft him in the first place.
Was never a fan of pairing Steven Adams with that roster. Solved one problem but introduced countless others.
Big Off-season for them. Everyone but Z should be on the table.


I like Z as a ballhandler, but having him be the primary seems like it would tap too much energy long term. Having a Pippen/Jordan/Harper dynamic seems like the best idea to me, and I'm amazed more teams don't employ that approach. It's like the Sky Hook! Single most effective offensive weapon in NBA history, and almost nobody uses it.

I felt the same about the Steven Adams signing-- it didn't make sense to me. I think New Orleans had great #s last year pairing Zion and Derrick Favors, so they thought that type of combo worked for some reason.

[keithington1]

I really like Sengun and Giddey for the Spurs. Mo Wagner will more than likely not be an all star so I dont want him. No way Moody falls. Jalen Johnson is just Keldon Johnson with less passion and aggression. Bouknight ain’t shooting it like Jamal Murray so pass. Kai Jones moves like Giannis so I’m intrigued.

[look_at_g_shred]

Intrigued by Springer

[daslicer]

Intrigued by Springer

Back in the day it used to be an entertaining show.

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJUEnMvxpRY

[TD 21]

In the NBA...based on an exhibition game? Full credit to you if you did.
I think we'll see his role diversify more as his career progresses. The ripple effect across the roster of having your PF basically play PG most of the game seems untenable long term if only for the mismatched skills you'd find across those lineups. Kira at some point has to play consistently and in a way that makes sense ie. Dynamic Lead ball handling guard with upside, based on a reason why you'd draft him in the first place.
Was never a fan of pairing Steven Adams with that roster. Solved one problem but introduced countless others.
Big Off-season for them. Everyone but Z should be on the table.

I was shocked he wasn't utilized that way from day one by the Pelicans.

He's only a "PF" because it's his primary defensive position. He's really a big wing with superior strength to most C's. Similar to Antetokounmpo, who's minimally co-ran point for a while or even Simmons (granted not as strong and can legit guard 1-4), who runs it solo.

They obviously need to put more shooting around him, which is why Adams was a foolish pickup, but Griffin is too close with the national media to be called out.

[Dex]

Jaylen Brown out for the season for the Celtics. Talk about being snake bit. They could slide further down the loss column.

[Dejounte]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJUEnMvxpRY

Thanks for the share. Would fit in excellently with Murray, Lonnie, Vassell, and White.

[PhantomDashCam]

I was shocked he wasn't utilized that way from day one by the Pelicans.

He's only a "PF" because it's his primary defensive position. He's really a big wing with superior strength to most C's. Similar to Antetokounmpo, who's minimally co-ran point for a while or even Simmons (granted not as strong and can legit guard 1-4), who runs it solo.

They obviously need to put more shooting around him, which is why Adams was a foolish pickup, but Griffin is too close with the national media to be called out.

Yeah I see him as a big wing too, but more so in a slasher mould akin to a Gerald Wallace or even our own Keldon Johnson. He has the talent to redefine the position though, that's for sure.
He's a match-up nightmare. However, he does create problems for their own defense by being somewhat of a tweener (not to mention Offensive dependency and deficiencies if lead ball handler for long periods of game time).

I wonder who would be best to pair with him long term in the Front Court. Myles Turner perhaps?
Like you stated they def. need more shooting, would both teams go for an Ingram, perhaps a Pick / Turner, TJ Warren deal?

Interesting...

Sorry gents, got a bit off thread.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

A sleeper and I guy I like that might be available low 1st early 2nd round is Trey Murphy III out of University of Virginia. 6’9” power/small forward who is a really good 3 point shooter and defender.

if he stays in the draft and does well with interviews and combine he might rise up the boards but he is definitely a guy later in the draft that could be a really good role player for a number of NBA teams.

[Dejounte]

Pels and Kings look locked in to pick before the Spurs.

11th pick at best for the Spurs

[Mr. Body]

Feeling like this draft is highly overrated.

[blizz]

Another shitty pick. Stuck in mediocrity. Yay.

[Mr. Body]

Another shitty pick. Stuck in mediocrity. Yay.

Which recent Spurs draft pick was shitty?

[exstatic]

Which recent Spurs draft pick was shitty?

He’s projecting ahead, thinking the Spurs might miss, for once.

[Dejounte]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfrMti64-rk

C'mon

Hoping NBA GM's are like Spurs fans who are fooled by athleticism and lets this guy drop

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

C'mon

Hoping NBA GM's are like Spurs fans who are fooled by athleticism and lets this guy drop

Hope so. Moody's my guy if you're picking after 5th. He's been getting a lot of love in mock drafts lately. There will be teams, like Phoenix in past drafts, that'll reach for someone a bit too early but with the Spurs projected to pick 12th or 13th it's very unlikely he'd drop that low.

[blizz]

Which recent Spurs draft pick was shitty?

Shitty draft position I should say. Tell me who has been great? DeJounte is JUST now coming into his own. We keep getting decent role players. We have a team of role players. Why do they want to sneak into the playoffs year after year only to get bounced immediately and keep missing the lottery? What good does that do?

[blizz]

He’s projecting ahead, thinking the Spurs might miss, for once.

Lol. For once. They’ve missed plenty of times.

[The Truth #6]

Interesting discussion on Wagner: https://youtu.be/fGY5mhmBSL8

I agree with the host, and see Wagner as a 3/4 with secondary playmaking ability.

[Dejounte]

Interesting discussion on Wagner: https://youtu.be/fGY5mhmBSL8

I agree with the host, and see Wagner as a 3/4 with secondary playmaking ability.

Why do these people give guys like the guy in the black shirt a platform to express their thoughts when they have clearly only watched a single highlight video and based all their thoughts on that?

[The Truth #6]

Why do these people give guys like the guy in the black shirt a platform to express their thoughts when they have clearly only watched a single highlight video and based all their thoughts on that?

Nepotism? Sounds like it’s his brother. I’ve heard them talk before and I’ve agreed with him on other players. People often disagree would be my thought, it’s part of life.

[exstatic]

Lol. For once. They’ve missed plenty of times.

Bookmarked

[R. DeMurre]

If there's one area where the Spurs have to be acknowledged as extremely competent and better than most, it's the draft. One could argue they're not strong on the trade front, and maybe have had a tough time getting compensation for players instead of letting them walk for nothing, but their record on draft choices has been impeccable.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1197929409044504576/nKXnm0aN_normal.jpg
Shams Charania ShamsCharania
(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania) 17m (https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1392251107217444866)
There was no in person 2020 Draft Combine due to coronavirus pandemic, but it is back on schedule this year. Ten team personnel members per organization are able to attend on-court portion — consistent with 2019 Combine — and six total for in-person interviews with prospects.


Shams Charania ShamsCharania

(https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania)

Sources: 2021 NBA Draft Combine is scheduled to take place in person June 21-27 in Chicago at Wintrust Arena and Marriott Marquis, consisting of team interview sessions, five-on-five games, shooting drills, measurements, strength/agility testing, halfcourt drills and medicals.

[Dejounte]

Bouknight would be Pistons' pick if they don't land in the top four, per TheAthletic writer.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DetroitPistons/comments/n9jpa3/hi_rdetroitpistons_im_james_l_edwards_iii_pistons/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[Degoat]

I’ve started watching some film on guys, still early on so this might change for me, but I actually really like all 3 international prospects (Josh Giddey, Alperen Sengun, and Usman Garuba) they all could provide a need the team has.

[BatManu20]

Future Spur.

1392489292694446083

[BatManu20]

1392492457342824448

[Dejounte]

Let's see if he gets past the Thunder, who seem to be collecting all the international players like Thanos collects infinity stones.

[Mr. Body]

This draft could get a bit wild, mostly because it's hard to tell who the actually good players are much anymore. Players come into the NBA much more raw than ever before, while simultaneously the way the game is called lets great prospects emerge immediately. It's hard to see who will emerge in a way that was different some years ago. This draft is super-hyped and teams may convince themselves of their pet picks -- like Detroit may have with Bouknight.

The other thing is the league is super flat right now. The Lakers are an unimpressive champions and may struggle to do it again. Any team that wins it this year isn't a lock to win it next year. Wide open, teams may really roll the dice and move around.

[exstatic]

Let's see if he gets past the Thunder, who seem to be collecting all the international players like Thanos collects infinity stones.

You think they’ll take him at 3? Because he won’t be there at 20.

[Seventyniner]

You think they’ll take him at 3? Because he won’t be there at 20.

I agree, but OC could easily use one of their stockpile of picks to move up from 20 if they really want him.

[Dejounte]

You think they’ll take him at 3? Because he won’t be there at 20.

Maybe they'll take him at 3. We're not talking about a typical team here. We're talking about a team hoarding hundreds of picks. OKC is kind of unpredictable.

[exstatic]

Maybe they'll take him at 3. We're not talking about a typical team here. We're talking about a team hoarding hundreds of picks. OKC is kind of unpredictable.

Doubtful, with the five players clearly at the top. Their best strategy is to use their high picks effectively, and take absolute flyers with their late picks. Someone interesting will be there at 20.

[TD 21]

Yeah I see him as a big wing too, but more so in a slasher mould akin to a Gerald Wallace or even our own Keldon Johnson. He has the talent to redefine the position though, that's for sure.
He's a match-up nightmare. However, he does create problems for their own defense by being somewhat of a tweener (not to mention Offensive dependency and deficiencies if lead ball handler for long periods of game time).

I wonder who would be best to pair with him long term in the Front Court. Myles Turner perhaps?
Like you stated they def. need more shooting, would both teams go for an Ingram, perhaps a Pick / Turner, TJ Warren deal?

Interesting...

Sorry gents, got a bit off thread.

Turner is the obvious name (though that combination would be severely deficient on the defensive glass, it's virtually impossible to check every box, especially in a small market).

I can't imagine the Pelicans even contemplating trading Ingram for that and there's probably no realistic trade they'd make involving him period.

[timvp]

So if the Spurs miss the playoffs, it'll be no worse than the 13th pick since there's almost a zero percent chance that the Spurs catch the Grizzlies now. There's probably a 50/50 chance they could move to 12th and a slim chance they could still move to 11th. If the Celtics bomb out of the playoffs after Brown's injury, that'd push the Spurs to at worst 12th if they miss the playoffs.

If the Spurs make the playoffs, they'd most likely get the 15th pick but they could theoretically slide down all the way down to 17. Putting odds on it, I'd say 60% 15th, 35% 16th, 5% 17th.

[Dejounte]

So if the Spurs miss the playoffs, it'll be no worse than the 13th pick since there's almost a zero percent chance that the Spurs catch the Grizzlies now. There's probably a 50/50 chance they could move to 12th and a slim chance they could still move to 11th. If the Celtics bomb out of the playoffs after Brown's injury, that'd push the Spurs to at worst 12th if they miss the playoffs.

If the Spurs make the playoffs, they'd most likely get the 15th pick but they could theoretically slide down all the way down to 17. Putting odds on it, I'd say 60% 15th, 35% 16th, 5% 17th.

For the second paragraph, the Spurs are much more in control of their destiny. Lose the remaining games (and hope the Pels, Kings lose one game), and 15th pick is pretty much secured. It's what I hope they do, but you never know with the Spurs.

[duncan2150]

For the second paragraph, the Spurs are much more in control of their destiny. Lose the remaining games (and hope the Pels, Kings lose one game), and 15th pick is pretty much secured. It's what I hope they do, but you never know with the Spurs.


Even if they lose their remaining games, they can go to 17 if they make the PO, That's what tim mvp is talking about.

Unlikely but if they win their two play in games and they are the 8th seed they could have the 17th pick.

[Dejounte]

Even if they lose their remaining games, they can go to 17 if they make the PO, That's what tim mvp is talking about.

Unlikely but if they win their two play in games and they are the 8th seed they could have the 17th pick.

No, if they lose the remaining it will result in what is likely the worst record out of all playoff teams = 15th pick

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/1392105894499004419?s=19

[duncan2150]

No, if they lose the remaining it will result in what is likely the worst record out of all playoff teams = 15th pick


No, cause Washington, Indiana and Charlotte ( same record if both teams lose all so it's draw) can all make the PO with a worse record than the Spurs.

[Dejounte]

No, cause Washington, Indiana and Charlotte ( same record if both teams lose all so it's draw) can all make the PO with a worse record than the Spurs.

Ah I wasn't assuming those teams would lose all their remaining games too. Washington needs to win two, while those other teams just need to win one. That's not unlikely for those teams to win that many. We'll see.

[duncan2150]

Ah I wasn't assuming those teams would lose all their remaining games too. Washington needs to win two, while those other teams just need to win one. That's not unlikely for those teams to win that many. We'll see.


Yes it's highly unlikely spurs will be 17 . Imo we'll have something between 13 and 15 like.

[PhantomDashCam]

FWIW, Nbadraft.net has Giddey going to Spurs at #13 in their latest mock.

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/?year-mock=2021

The Spurs will be in an interesting spot as they will want to draft BPA with highest character, no red flags etc.
Giddey could be the one prospect which they may feel is unnecessary (with DJ, White and potentially Tre Jones getting proper rotation burn next season), and Vassell, KJ locking up minutes at the 3.

If next season returns to normalcy as expected, the prospect is likely to spend a lot of time in Austin regardless.

Still doing some work on prospects, but can’t help but feel Kai Jones would be too tantalising a prospect to pass up if available between 13-16 ish pick.

They list him as a C but I wonder if he can develop into a 3-4.

A starting Front Court in 3 years of of KJ, Kai and Poeltl; (or even Kai, Sham and Poeltl), oozes with Defensive versatility.

[The Truth #6]

Last year they hyper focused on defense with their two picks. If they continue with defense as a priority, I could see either Wagner or Garuba as their picks this year, if they're available.

[exstatic]

FWIW, Nbadraft.net has Giddey going to Spurs at #13 in their latest mock.

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/?year-mock=2021

The Spurs will be in an interesting spot as they will want to draft BPA with highest character, no red flags etc.
Giddey could be the one prospect which they may feel is unnecessary (with DJ, White and potentially Tre Jones getting proper rotation burn next season), and Vassell, KJ locking up minutes at the 3.

If next season returns to normalcy as expected, the prospect is likely to spend a lot of time in Austin regardless.

Still doing some work on prospects, but can’t help but feel Kai Jones would be too tantalising a prospect to pass up if available between 13-16 ish pick.

They list him as a C but I wonder if he can develop into a 3-4.

A starting Front Court in 3 years of of KJ, Kai and Poeltl; (or even Kai, Sham and Poeltl), oozes with Defensive versatility.

Not a 3, but with a full year in Austin, and a lot of hard work, maybe a 4.

[Mr. Body]

Not a 3, but with a full year in Austin, and a lot of hard work, maybe a 4.

Kai Jones likely needs more than a full year in Austin just to be a serviceable player.

[KingKev]

What a waste of a season. Another mid round draft pick who will be 2 years away from being a decent role player on a perennial 8th-10th seed. Likely a 6’4 tweener who can’t shoot 3s but is a stand up guy who has never had a traffic ticket. Rinse and repeat.

[rankingtear]

FWIW, Nbadraft.net has Giddey going to Spurs at #13 in their latest mock.

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/?year-mock=2021

The Spurs will be in an interesting spot as they will want to draft BPA with highest character, no red flags etc.
Giddey could be the one prospect which they may feel is unnecessary (with DJ, White and potentially Tre Jones getting proper rotation burn next season), and Vassell, KJ locking up minutes at the 3.

If next season returns to normalcy as expected, the prospect is likely to spend a lot of time in Austin regardless.

Still doing some work on prospects, but can’t help but feel Kai Jones would be too tantalising a prospect to pass up if available between 13-16 ish pick.

They list him as a C but I wonder if he can develop into a 3-4.

A starting Front Court in 3 years of of KJ, Kai and Poeltl; (or even Kai, Sham and Poeltl), oozes with Defensive versatility.

Kai Jones might be worth it if they see a Jaren Jackson type prospect. They did try it with Metu. Still got room to add weight to his frame and late bloomer type who started basketball at a late age of 15 former track and long jump athlete.

[The Truth #6]

I don’t know if the Spurs should be investing in any three year projects. Hyperbolizing a bit, but with a four-year rookie contract, sitting on the bench or G league, having to live in San Antonio, it’s hard for me to say if players will want to stick around here. Hopefully I’m dead wrong. When we were winning championships that was one thing, but on a bad team with an unclear direction? That seems problematic. I think high character ready to play by year 2 players are who we should target until we get in the top few picks in the lottery. * foreign born players would be the exception, I suppose.

Second round picks, different story.

[Dejounte]

The JJJ comparison is a good one. Not saying he is anywhere close, and it's his shooting ability that makes him far off from JJJ than anything else. If he unlocks that, or if the Spurs have faith in his ability to become a shooter, then it wouldn't be a bad pick. Otherwise, his ceiling is Nic Claxton which isn't bad but not terribly needed.

[Russ]

FWIW, Nbadraft.net has Giddey going to Spurs at #13 in their latest mock.

https://www.nbadraft.net/nba-mock-drafts/?year-mock=2021

The Spurs will be in an interesting spot as they will want to draft BPA with highest character, no red flags etc.
Giddey could be the one prospect which they may feel is unnecessary (with DJ, White and potentially Tre Jones getting proper rotation burn next season), and Vassell, KJ locking up minutes at the 3.

If next season returns to normalcy as expected, the prospect is likely to spend a lot of time in Austin regardless.

Still doing some work on prospects, but can’t help but feel Kai Jones would be too tantalising a prospect to pass up if available between 13-16 ish pick.

They list him as a C but I wonder if he can develop into a 3-4.

A starting Front Court in 3 years of of KJ, Kai and Poeltl; (or even Kai, Sham and Poeltl), oozes with Defensive versatility.

NBAdraft.net also has Kai Jones going just one spot ahead of Giddey at 12. I'd take either one of those guys if they slip to where the Spurs pick.

Kai Jones has athleticism that is extremely rare at his size -- and he can shoot. The sky's the limit.

Comparisons to Metu are likely inapt. Metu was a reticent player who had none of Kai's athleticism (or motor).

[Dejounte]

Saying "he can shoot" when he barely takes two 3 point attempts a game (most times he only shoots one) is intellectually dishonest. His shot profile consists of mostly shots near the rim.

[Russ]

Saying "he can shoot" when he barely takes two 3 point attempts a game (most times he only shoots one) is intellectually dishonest. His shot profile consists of mostly shots near the rim.

I think he can shoot, but what the heck, I never was an intellectual.

(Although NBAdraft.net rates his jump shot a 9, its highest rating.)

[rjv]

7 footers have a history of going in the lottery but i think kai's stock is going to drop unless he has a breakout performance at the combine.

[exstatic]

7 footers have a history of going in the lottery but i think kai's stock is going to drop unless he has a breakout performance at the combine.

At 6’10, he’s as close to 6’8” as he is to 7’0”.

[Russ]

At 6’10, he’s as close to 6’8” as he is to 7’0”.

Not to quibble, but NBAdraft.net says he's 6'11".

[timvp]

The draft pick status is looking better and better for the Spurs. There's a 99% chance the Suns will have something to play for in each of their two games this weekend and the Spurs have nothing to play for, which hopefully means two PHX wins, tbh, and the Spurs finish with 33 wins. It also looks like the Wizards or Hornets will be able to get to that 34-win mark (they play each other in the final game). The Pacers should also get to 34 wins, as long as they can beat the tanking Raptors in their last game.

So if the Spurs miss the playoffs, it's looking pretty likely that they'll have either the 11th pick or the 12th pick, most likely depending on a coin flip. That's the same exact position the Spurs were in last year and they won the coin flip to get the 11th pick.

If the Spurs make the playoffs, the door is still open to drop all the way down to the 17th pick depending on how the play-in tournament goes in the East :lol

[timvp]

The more I go over tape, the more confusing the draft gets, tbh. After the fifth pick, every player is either painfully flawed or has a low ceiling.

-After watching more of Tennessee, I'm lower on Keon Johnson and Springer. Johnson is really athletic but he has the skills of a PF in the body of a SG. His road to being a productive player is longer than I originally thought. Springer is solid but I'm now unconvinced he has the athleticism to be a starting PG. I'd be okay with the Spurs picking Keon. I wouldn't be super excited but I could understand the gamble on his elite athleticism. Springer in the lottery? Ehh, don't think I could behind that.

-Other players who are being mocked high who I wouldn't want the Spurs to pick in the lottery: Davion Mitchell (don't buy his shot, stock is way too inflated right now), Isaiah Jackson (run and jump bigs are dime a dozen), Garuba (awesome defensive prospect but his offense is too far away), Dosunmu (Spurs-y character kid but too small and too unathletic).

-Of the international prospects, I like Giddey the best ... but I could understand passing on him. At the end of the day, he's a subpar athlete, subpar shooter and a subpar defender ... and that's tough to overcome as a prospect. His passing is good but some of his assists where he holds the ball 30 feet from the basket, stands in the pocket like Tom Brady and fires passes to the interior might work in Australia but won't work in the NBA. The fit on the Spurs is also suspect. If they passed on Haliburton, why would they pick Giddey? And since Giddey projects to most likely be a role player in the NBA, picking him isn't even much of a swing for the fences. Gambling to hope he turns into Ingles 2.0 doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a Spurs team that lacks a franchise player.

-I'm still relatively low on Sengun. Awesome production but he's the exact archetype that you don't want: an undersized center who will probably be a 4.5 because he's too slow to defend the perimeter and isn't a three-point shooter. His production is impressive enough that I wouldn't hate the Spurs picking him ... but, man, it's difficult to imagine how he fits in today's NBA. That said, unlike Giddey, Sengun does have a path to stardom, I think. There's a chance that he's just so productive that he'll figure it out one way or another.

-There aren't any other internationals I'd want the Spurs to consider in the lottery. I was intrigued by Roko but the more I watch, the more I think he's not athletic enough to warrant a lottery pick.

-Players on my don't-love-it-but-I-understand-the-pick tier: Barnes, Wagner, Kispert. I think Barnes has a deceptively low floor and will probably end up being a center in the NBA but if he puts it all together, he has star upside as a perimeter player -- so that'd be intriguing enough. Wagner doesn't have a high ceiling but he should be a solid role player who makes players around him better ... and that's a trait the Spurs could use right now. Kispert is the best shooting prospect in the draft. The Spurs obviously need shooting so if they pick Kispert, I'd have to reluctantly nod in approval.

-My interest is waning on Kai Jones. His floor is just so unbelievably low that it'd be tough to pull the trigger on him with a lottery pick. I guess the Spurs can pick him if they think the Samanic project is dead and they want to press the reset button and try again. But, even then, do you really want to use a lottery pick on a guy who's most likely positive outcome is as a rim-running big? Sure, there's that 0.001% chance he becomes a poor man's Giannis but even Samanic was a much more complete player entering the draft.

-I think the only zero hesitation pick in the late lottery for me right now would be Moody. Three-and-D floor with enough upside (mostly due to the rate at which he draws fouls) to easily justify a lottery pick. The only worry from the Spurs perspective would be the complete overlap between Vassell and Moody. But, then again, those types of players are valuable and you can never have too many.

-Players in my f-it-let's-just-pick-someone-who-will-stick-in-the-NBA tier: Jared Butler, Chris Duarte. Drafting either in the lottery would be tooooooooooough but if the Spurs can't trade back, don't believe in any of the projects and just want a safe player who'd be ready to play on Day 1, those would be the two guys.

-Three players I think the Spurs need to consider who look like anti-Spurs on paper: Bouknight, Ziaire Williams, Jalen Johnson. Bouknight had some legal issues in college but it looks like he has the it-factor when it comes to being a scorer. Ziaire was terrible at Stanford but he was a top ten recruit. A 6-foot-8 perimeter player who shows flashes of scoring, playmaking and elite athleticism? In this draft, you can honestly justify picking him anywhere outside of the top five, even though he was hot garbage as a freshman. Jalen Johnson has some character red flags but I'm not even sure those red flags are serious. Hopping from high school to high school and quitting on Duke? Yeah, who cares, tbh? Amateur hoops is a dirty, exploitive world. If you interview him and do your research and he seems like a good kid, I'd look past those supposed red flags. A 6-foot-9 big, physical wing who can handle the ball, pass, rebound and cause havoc on defense with multiple avenues to being really good? Sounds good to me.

All told, the players who have my eye most right now are Moody, Jalen Johnson, Wagner and Kispert -- with Giddey and Ziaire gaining momentum.

[Marco]

Jared Butler is my favorite realistic pick.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1393293012667617286

Not pro or anti Sengun, but this is pretty athletic IMO

[Degoat]

I’m pretty pro drafting Alperen!! He’s really skilled for a young player

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/1393305579154726915?s=19

[The Truth #6]

Man, I go back and forth with Sengun. If we draft him it feels like a likely adios to Eubanks, and I love his bruiser with upside appeal; he’s making significant progress, albeit for a role player, but not the biggest loss.

Sengun has to somehow be a much better shooter or passer then we believe.

Shooting: 17% from 3...but 81% for free throws? That’s bizarre but encouraging, to me, at least if you believe that FT % is the best indicator for projecting 3P%. His form looks good to me, so I think there’s potential there. I don’t see it as fixing a broken shot, so much as teaching him to focus on outside shooting, which I’m sort of assuming wasn’t his role on his team, especially with such outstanding post fundamentals.

Passing: it’s assumed his passing is bad or even overrated. But I see it as better than advertised. Fast forward to 3:31: https://youtu.be/yoDROPsaRSo

Better than I expected, with some passes showing great court awareness.

Ball handling: better than I expected in the open court. A decent to solid handle, especially for a throwback center. Better than Jakob, for comparison, fwiw.

Athleticism: heavy feet, slow twitch athlete, but very coordinated. Seems to have soft touch and good hands.

Defense: likely bad, but may have good court awareness as a help defender.

Basically, he looks like a lumbering oaf, a foaming at the mouth big man, but I see deceptive Euro style athleticism, meaning great coordination and fundamental awareness that could be surprising in the way that Luka Doncic looks like a fat slob but can still be effective.

I’ve focused on the need for shooting and passing, which isn’t his obvious strength, but after watching the Keystone cops on on the spurs the last few weeks, fumbling around like drunk morons with no understanding of the game, I actually am going to appreciate Sengun for his solid feel for the game.

So yeah, I’m leaning towards Sengun if we strike iut on more promising wings who can shoot, in other words, Moody. We’d probably want to trade down to get him if we can’t dangle a young piece to move into the top 5, which is unlikely.

[Dejounte]

After years of torture watching dumb players, all I want is a smart player. Don't care who. I'm spoiled by the old days when the team barely made any mistakes. Sengun seems like a player with fundamentals, which I like.

Let's go back to the days when the team was a well-oiled machine. For me personally, I don't need a star to be entertained by Spurs basketball. Don't need a Tim Duncan big man, nor an exciting wing. Watching players play the right way with minimal mistakes is extremely fun to me. The Spurs aren't doing that right now.

[duncan2150]

All told, the players who have my eye most right now are Moody, Jalen Johnson, Wagner and Kispert -- with Giddey and Ziaire gaining momentum.

Your last sentence resume what is this draft. It's really difficult to have an order between this 6-16 pick range but i'm with you for moody. If he is here i will take him first.

Sengun is still my first choice after that, i'm really intriguing by giddey and i think barnes ceilling could be worth it. ( Jalen Johnson too but don't know what to thing about the issues°

[R. DeMurre]

It'll be very interesting to see what Sengun does in the draft combine (if he does the combine). If his vertical & agility numbers are average or slightly above average, it could be a case of the eye test making him out to be slower than he really is. Watching Harden dismantle the Spurs the other night while looking like he was moving pretty slowly and watching lots of Jokic makes me wonder if Sengun's natural feel for the game and incredible numbers at age 18 show that there's enough to overcome average athleticism.

[R. DeMurre]

I’ve focused on the need for shooting and passing, which isn’t his obvious strength, but after watching the Keystone cops on on the spurs the last few weeks, fumbling around like drunk morons with no understanding of the game, I actually am going to appreciate Sengun for his solid feel for the game.



Have to admit, watching tape on him it's really refreshing to see him box out on every shot that goes up, or to attack the basket, looking for put backs. For the last couple of games, I've been especially watching Lonnie Walker and he's such a ball watcher at this point. He doesn't move towards the paint when a shot goes up, he doesn't rotate sideways to get free of his defender in case there's a miss and a kick out, he doesn't get a head start getting back on D... on almost every shot that goes up, he freezes and stands in place, waiting to see what happens. It seems like almost every rebound Walker gets is a case of right place/right time + great leaping ability. It's almost never because of fundamentals & rebounding intuition, which is something Murray has a real gift for.

[Dejounte]

It'll be very interesting to see what Sengun does in the draft combine (if he does the combine). If his vertical & agility numbers are average or slightly above average, it could be a case of the eye test making him out to be slower than he really is. Watching Harden dismantle the Spurs the other night while looking like he was moving pretty slowly and watching lots of Jokic makes me wonder if Sengun's natural feel for the game and incredible numbers at age 18 show that there's enough to overcome average athleticism.

Bingo. Harden's performance against the Spurs recently was exactly what was on my mind when I wrote that post. His anticipation, timing, and pace outclassed everyone on the court. When he made that one error of passing it out of bounds, it was like watching a genius writing it in his book to never let it happen again. That's not athleticism, that's next level high basketball IQ processing speed. High flyer-type athleticism is overrated. What I look for these days in physical ability is strength and adequate lateral quickness, and that's it.

[Dejounte]

After hearing about Doncic and Porzingas not getting along due to their European roots, I'm curious if any int'l prospects would clash with any of ours (or future int'l Spurs players).

I'm not educated enough in European or Middle Eastern affairs, but hopefully none of them bring harmful chemistry.

Wagner's hometown of Berlin is only a seven hour drive from Poeltl's hometown of Vienna, so I wonder if they have anything in common. (Wagner also played with a Poeltl-like big in Michigan, so seems like there would be instant chemistry there)

I've also wondered why Samanic has a friendship with Doncic, and it's probably because Slovenia is only a 3 hour drive from Croatia.

[Dejounte]

Saw this on reddit:

#Fade4Cade #Succ4Suggs #Lowley4Mobley #Failin4Jalen #Booty4Moody #Die4Kai #Despair4Zaire #Potty4Scottie #LoseAllNight4Bouknight #GetPee'dOn4Keon #SuckTiddies4Giddey

:lmao :lmao

[KingKev]

Saw this on reddit:

#Fade4Cade #Succ4Suggs #Lowley4Mobley #Failin4Jalen #Booty4Moody #Die4Kai #Despair4Zaire #Potty4Scottie #LoseAllNight4Bouknight #GetPee'dOn4Keon #SuckTiddies4Giddey

:lmao :lmao

Lol second last one is great

how about #BangHer4Wagner

[mo7888]

My personal big board has changed a few times but here's how I value guys currently. Of course it's from my Spurs perspective or basically what I think the Spurs big board should look like.

1. Cade Cunningham
2. Evan Mobley
3. Jonathan Kuminga
4. Jalen Green
5. Jalen Suggs
6. Franz Wagner
7. Moses Moody
8. Corey Kispert
9. Jalen Johnson
10. Alperen Sengun
11. Zaire Williams
12. Keon Johnson
13. Jared Butler
14. Josh Giddey
15. Kai Jones
16. Scottie Barnes
17. Chris Duarte
18. James Bouknight
19. Davion Mitchell
20. Isaiah Jackson

[Biggems]

I want C Neemias Queta to be our backup C. Hell, when we go against the 3 or 4 teams that have big lineups, play Poeltl and Queta together. Our interior D would soar....Poeltl is already a beast on D, but adding Queta would give us such a formidable duo, and honestly take some of the pressure off Poeltl to consistently stay out of foul trouble. He would be allowed to be a bit more aggressive.

I really like Giddey, Sengun, Prkacin, Huff, Bassey, and Zaire......The first 4 have high BBIQ and have strong fundamentals. They all lack elite athleticism, true, but I love their intangibles. Bassey is not overly athletic, but more so than the previous 4. His BBIQ is ok, not great. However, he is a very good paint player, especially on defense. He also has 3pt range, which could allow him to be our starting 4. Zaire is just a freak. He is the one on the list with the highest upside, but also needs the most work. He has the body, length, speed, and hops, but his game is so incomplete. He is one of those who relies so much on his God given ability, but has not taken the time to practice and hone those abilities.

[Dejounte]

^I want to know what Ziaire does that classifies him as a freak. He's not explosive, he can barely get by his man and when he does, he doesn't go all the way to the hoop as if he's afraid of contact. In what way is he a freak?

[The Truth #6]

Kispert.

I need to see more of him. His rise is atypical, right? As a junior, barely on the radar. But now top ten, without much change in his game? There’s an interesting argument that his shooting numbers were bolstered by operating in the shadow of Suggs who drew all the defensive attention. It’s possible he’s overvalued. It’s possible he’s wildly overvalued. Yet, we really need shooting, so it’s an interesting dilemma. But is the rest of his game worth the high pick? Maybe. Not sure yet.

But then I read about these sleepers who can shoot: https://www.wyexpect.com/stories/2021-nba-draft-sleepers-st-johns-julian-champagnie-is-hiding-in-plain-sight

And then I wonder if we could find 1-dimensional shooting elsewhere?

[Dejounte]

Kispert.

I need to see more of him. His rise is atypical, right? As a junior, barely on the radar. But now top ten, without much change in his game? There’s an interesting argument that his shooting numbers were bolstered by operating in the shadow of Suggs who drew all the defensive attention. It’s possible he’s overvalued. It’s possible he’s wildly overvalued. Yet, we really need shooting, so it’s an interesting dilemma. But is the rest of his game worth the high pick? Maybe. Not sure yet.

But then I read about these sleepers who can shoot: https://www.wyexpect.com/stories/2021-nba-draft-sleepers-st-johns-julian-champagnie-is-hiding-in-plain-sight

And then I wonder if we could find 1-dimensional shooting elsewhere?

I feel the Pelicans will/should get Kispert. They're in desperate need for shooting. He'd play well and get A LOT of looks with Zion playing inside.

As for a Spurs fit, I think they should go after complete players first before they settle for these 1-dimensional types. It's like walking backwards after they've gotten rid of Bryn, Marco, and soon Mills. I'd rather they complete their vision of whatever it is, than go back to driving us nuts with these 1-dimensional types and their zero defense.

[Dejounte]

Side note:

Raptors have a big hole at C in which they have been shuffling their rotation at that position all season long. They may be a landing spot for Sengun (unless they land in the top 4), unless they plan to go after Lauri Markkanen or another big in the offseason.

[BacktoBasics]

After years of torture watching dumb players, all I want is a smart player. Don't care who. I'm spoiled by the old days when the team barely made any mistakes. Sengun seems like a player with fundamentals, which I like.

Let's go back to the days when the team was a well-oiled machine. For me personally, I don't need a star to be entertained by Spurs basketball. Don't need a Tim Duncan big man, nor an exciting wing. Watching players play the right way with minimal mistakes is extremely fun to me. The Spurs aren't doing that right now.

In a league trying to eliminate defensive I doubt you’ll ever get what you want.

[The Truth #6]

I feel the Pelicans will/should get Kispert. They're in desperate need for shooting. He'd play well and get A LOT of looks with Zion playing inside.

As for a Spurs fit, I think they should go after complete players first before they settle for these 1-dimensional types. It's like walking backwards after they've gotten rid of Bryn, Marco, and soon Mills. I'd rather they complete their vision of whatever it is, than go back to driving us nuts with these 1-dimensional types and their zero defense.

I agree. It will be interesting to see what the general manager says, if he says anything, about their priorities this year, at least after the draft.

[The Truth #6]

^I want to know what Ziaire does that classifies him as a freak. He's not explosive, he can barely get by his man and when he does, he doesn't go all the way to the hoop as if he's afraid of contact. In what way is he a freak?

I’m trying to get up to speed on that player as well. It definitely sounds like he will be available when we pick…

[The Truth #6]

I’m trying to get up to speed on that player as well. It definitely sounds like he will be available when we pick…

Ziaire: https://youtu.be/-IhMdnyTawI

His knock seems to be his physical weakness and lack of interest in initiating contact. After watching IV avoid contact, that doesn’t sound exciting.

But, I don’t see his role as a pure scorer. In a few years, yes, ideally.

His strengths right now seem to be: one-dribble step back jumpers and the ability to guard 1-3.

Perhaps I’m trying to sell myself on him, but I see in his tape someone who is very switchable from PG to wing on defense, gets a ton of deflections, and when locked in can be a strong defensive presence. That’s pretty good for a 6’8” wing who was very highly recruited as a scorer. His small frame may prevent him from being a strong slasher but he’s a blue chip prospect who has potential to do a lot of things, still.

Underrated passer. Underrated defender. Falling in the draft boards but that sounds like an advantage for us drafting outside the top ten. Similar situation to last year when I wanted us to consider Jaden McDaniel, a wiry 5-star prospect who was falling in the ratings.

Yeah, he’ll need some G league. But I see a one year project to start contributing with defense and simple pull-up shooting while he develops the other aspects. This could be a player that could have a long, continual growth curve as he fills out his frame and polishes his game.

Now, he could be a jerk, could be lazy, or various other reasons to cause us to pass, but I see a path for him.

[Dejounte]

Ziaire: https://youtu.be/-IhMdnyTawI

His knock seems to be his physical weakness and lack of interest in initiating contact. After watching IV avoid contact, that doesn’t sound exciting.

But, I don’t see his role as a pure scorer. In a few years, yes, ideally.

His strengths right now seem to be: one-dribble step back jumpers and the ability to guard 1-3.

Perhaps I’m trying to sell myself on him, but I see in his tape someone who is very switchable from PG to wing on defense, gets a ton of deflections, and when locked in can be a strong defensive presence. That’s pretty good for a 6’8” wing who was very highly recruited as a scorer. His small frame may prevent him from being a strong slasher but he’s a blue chip prospect who has potential to do a lot of things, still.

Underrated passer. Underrated defender. Falling in the draft boards but that sounds like an advantage for us drafting outside the top ten. Similar situation to last year when I wanted us to consider Jaden McDaniel, a wiry 5-star prospect who was falling in the ratings.

Yeah, he’ll need some G league. But I see a one year project to start contributing with defense and simple pull-up shooting while he develops the other aspects. This could be a player that could have a long, continual growth curve as he fills out his frame and polishes his game.

Now, he could be a jerk, could be lazy, or various other reasons to cause us to pass, but I see a path for him.

Sounds like everything Vassell already is, but with way less evidence he'll actually produce since Vassell's numbers/ advanced metrics in college trump everything Ziaire did. This guy is living off his high school fame with barely any growth since. I see gleague players who are better than him.

[The Truth #6]

Sounds like everything Vassell already is, but with way less evidence he'll actually produce since Vassell's numbers/ advanced metrics in college trump everything Ziaire did. This guy is living off his high school fame with barely any growth since. I see gleague players who are better than him.

That may be true. But his game offers more upside than Vassell would be the counter. Vassell is a role player with 3 and D we hope will eventually do more. Ziaire has the package to be a much better scorer, and that is how people seem to be imagining him, but I am suggesting they develop him as a 3 n D wing role player to begin, then try to tap into his other skills over time.

Keep in mind, I’m playing devil’s advocate here in what a potential path could be. I’m not making any promises that he couldn’t end up sucking, like most draft picks, to be honest.

[mo7888]

That may be true. But his game offers more upside than Vassell would be the counter. Vassell is a role player with 3 and D we hope will eventually do more. Ziaire has the package to be a much better scorer, and that is how people seem to be imagining him, but I am suggesting they develop him as a 3 n D wing role player to begin, then try to tap into his other skills over time.

Keep in mind, I’m playing devil’s advocate here in what a potential path could be. I’m not making any promises that he couldn’t end up sucking, like most draft picks, to be honest.

I think you've accurately described the attraction and concerns with him. One other physical limitation I see is that most scouts are concerned with is his narrow shoulders. I think he's got a good upside (John Collins buy on the wing) but there's a ceiling there too.

[The Truth #6]

I think you've accurately described the attraction and concerns with him. One other physical limitation I see is that most scouts are concerned with is his narrow shoulders. I think he's got a good upside (John Collins buy on the wing) but there's a ceiling there too.

Valid. I suppose I’m trying to see what options we’ll have with the 13th pick (give or take). I’m still not into long range projects, but I see Ziaire having some ability to contribute earlier then expected. On the flipside I don’t ever see him as a slasher, but the way the refs call minimal contact now, I cynically wonder.

[Dejounte]

Meh, Vassell has consistently been flashing a pull up game very similar to or even better than what Ziaire has shown so far. Understood the devil's advocate remark, just seems like this kid has put a spell on a lot of people when it comes to his abilities. Pull up J is the least impressive ability of them all because any one can do it, but very few are actually efficient at it. And Ziaire is very inefficient.

An impressive scorer, to me, is one who has a wide array of moves.

[The Truth #6]

Meh, Vassell has consistently been flashing a pull up game very similar to or even better than what Ziaire has shown so far. Understood the devil's advocate remark, just seems like this kid has put a spell on a lot of people when it comes to his abilities. Pull up J is the least impressive ability of them all because any one can do it, but very few are actually efficient at it. And Ziaire is very inefficient.

An impressive scorer, to me, is one who has a wide array of moves.

All valid, which is the quandary with a late lottery pick.

[KingKev]

Any Canadians found out how to watch in this borderline communist establishment of a country? I have every sports channel and NBA league pass and it doesn’t seem to be televised.

[objective]

I suppose it may be true what I've read/heard, that this year is top heavy compared to last year. Starting to look at guys and I don't particularly like anyone that would be there at 11/12, only really like guys if the Spurs got into the top 4.

Fingers crossed for Cade or Kuminga.

[Dex]

So at the end of the season, it looks like we are sitting in the 12th draft position? That would only change if we win the play-in games, right?

If we win against the 9th seed, then lose against the 7th/8th...would that end our season in 9th place in the West?

[exstatic]

So at the end of the season, it looks like we are sitting in the 12th draft position? That would only change if we win the play-in games, right?

If we win against the 9th seed, then lose against the 7th/8th...would that end our season in 9th place in the West?

Your draft position can only change if you make the playoffs as a 9/10 or miss them as a 7/8. We will also be in a coin flip for 11/12. For draft purposes, there are no tiebreakers,

[Russ]

I suppose it may be true what I've read/heard, that this year is top heavy compared to last year. Starting to look at guys and I don't particularly like anyone that would be there at 11/12, only really like guys if the Spurs got into the top 4.

Fingers crossed for Cade or Kuminga.

I'm not sure this draft is heavy anywhere, brother.

In other threads people talk about how Memphis tanked for Ja Morant and Dallas tanked for Doncic.

Those guys were superstars at the previous level, the only question was whether that dazzling performance could be duplicated in the NBA.

There aren't any guys like that in this draft that I can see. Maybe not even Cunningham.

Always tank with care (wear a mask and be prepared to back it up with a blindfold).

[duncan2150]

I'm not sure this draft is heavy anywhere, brother.

In other threads people talk about how Memphis tanked for Ja Morant and Dallas tanked for Doncic.

Those guys were superstars at the previous level, the only question was whether that dazzling performance could be duplicated in the NBA.

There aren't any guys like that in this draft that I can see. Maybe not even Cunningham.

Always tank with care (wear a mask and be prepared to back it up with a blindfold).


Cunnigham will be a star imo, mobley too, i think green, suggs and kuminga have big potentials to be really good players.

For others prospects i think you have a heavy class of good role players or more, from 6 to maybe the bottom of the first pick they are a lot of talented players. This draft may not have top talent like others ( tough i don't think so) but the average level of players is better imo.

[Ditty]

I am all in on Sengun now.

[rjv]

I am all in on Sengun now.

i'm headed in that direction myself.

[duncan2150]

I am all in on Sengun now.

Welcome lol

One thing to notice, Sengun will play qualifying tournament for the Olympics in late june ( i don't think he will skip thos), that could rise his stock tough he is already pretty high ( 10-15 in a lot of mocks)

[rjv]

Welcome lol

One thing to notice, Sengun will play qualifying tournament for the Olympics in late june ( i don't think he will skip thos), that could rise his stock tough he is already pretty high ( 10-15 in a lot of mocks)

that's my concern-that his performance in the games may move him up and beyond the spurs reach.

[Dejounte]

Yesterday's game:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKLdYrrmIbI

Rebounds, goes coast to coast, no-look pass to his teammate...

Yeah, I'll bump him up one tier on my Tier List.

Edit: Seconds later in the video he does a facial dunk on someone lmao

[Dejounte]

Underrated aspect of Sengun's game: His P&R defense. He seems to jump high enough (with timing) to disrupt lobs to the roll man a lot. Lord knows this was a major issue on this year's Spurs when they faced a team with an athletic big.

I don't see an issue with Sengun playing with Poeltl. If the Spurs tried to make it work this year with LMA+Poeltl starting together, I think they could make it work with Sengun.

[Dejounte]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnnU1bzYj_k

What the FUCK is that pass at 3:58?

[Russ]

Sengun may be the guy, but it's gonna take some lengthy analysis. (Maybe his June Olympic tourney will help.)

For now, the league he plays in looks like a rec league. Virtually no defense.

That's not his fault, of course, he can only play against the guys in front of him.

[bluebellmaniac]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnnU1bzYj_k

What the FUCK is that pass at 3:58?

Manu 2.0

[ace3g]

OT but hopefully this is good news that Summer League will happen.

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/996727452486504450/cuVEjsh5_normal.jpg
K.C. Johnson @KCJHoop
(https://twitter.com/KCJHoop) 1h (https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/1394344441901686787)
Patrick Williams said he will play summer league.

[Dejounte]

Manu 2.0

The team is missing a player who does these heads up plays. Someone who is always on his toes and comes up with winning plays thought of in a fraction of a second. It's gotta be in their DNA.

[Mr. Body]

I'm seeing a potentially overrated draft. It has some depth, but even then it seems like the ceilings aren't that high on many of these guys.

[Mr. Body]

Sengun may be the guy, but it's gonna take some lengthy analysis. (Maybe his June Olympic tourney will help.)

For now, the league he plays in looks like a rec league. Virtually no defense.

That's not his fault, of course, he can only play against the guys in front of him.

Talent level looks painfully bad. I do like that he doesn't shy from contact (at that level) and his footwork is nice.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1394386509688619013

I'm glad the coin flip happens quick.

[The Truth #6]

Nice new clips of Sengun. I was definitely thinking about him a few days ago. These clips show even better passing, court awareness, and even handles. He's breaking down people off the dribble from the top of the key and going coast to coast (and to reference Sean, doesn't seem to be a "Tragic Johnson").

So yeah, his skills/fundamentals are solid. Other than athleticism and defense, his last major concern seems to be shooting. His FT % is very good at 80%, which considering how many post players are horrible at free throws, that's actually really, really good. I think he could become a 3pt shooter over time. He has good touch, good form, and a good FT %, so the fundamentals there show a path.

Yeah, those clips make me sold on him even more. I'd take him over Scottie Barnes and Kai Jones at this point without too much hesitation.

We'll see if he's available.

[The Truth #6]

Manu 2.0

And people said he couldn't pass.

My comps for Sengun are sort of ridiculous, but: 1/3 Gasol, 1/3 Ed Nealy, and 1/3 Adrian Dantley.

[pad300]

To me, Sengun is an automatic take if he's there are 11/12... He's got more than a little Manu in him on D as well as passing - look at some of those flops to draw O fouls...

[Dejounte]

Who is this year's Obi Toppin?

Someone who posted gaudy stats, and exhibited elite athleticism in college but looks like a bust now? Quite a few people here thought he was a sure thing to be a star in the NBA, some even wanted to trade up for him.

What lesson can we learn from Obi and apply to this year's draft?

[Dejounte]

Sometimes, I find the draft more entertaining than the actual NBA season. I say that even if the Spurs were doing well. There's just something about the process of learning about each prospect, and watching them blossom in the league that appeals to me. Anyone else feel the same way about finding enjoyment in the draft like I do?

[Degoat]

Giddey/Sengun are two of my favorite prospects, wouldnt mind if the spurs tried to grab another pick and get Usman Garuba too lol spurs are in a great spot to get a good player! I like all of the top 15 prospects right now

[Degoat]

Sometimes, I find the draft more entertaining than the actual NBA season. I say that even if the Spurs were doing well. There's just something about the process of learning about each prospect, and watching them blossom in the league that appeals to me. Anyone else feel the same way about finding enjoyment in the draft like I do?

Same Bro! The draft + Summer league are my favorite parts of the NBA calendar

[duncan2150]

Sometimes, I find the draft more entertaining than the actual NBA season. I say that even if the Spurs were doing well. There's just something about the process of learning about each prospect, and watching them blossom in the league that appeals to me. Anyone else feel the same way about finding enjoyment in the draft like I do?


you saw us in this thread talking about the draft since a lot of weeks lol so we like the process

for me, this is one of the best thing in basketball : watching some prospects, evaluate them ... i really enjoy it.

[duncan2150]

Who is this year's Obi Toppin?

Someone who posted gaudy stats, and exhibited elite athleticism in college but looks like a bust now? Quite a few people here thought he was a sure thing to be a star in the NBA, some even wanted to trade up for him.

What lesson can we learn from Obi and apply to this year's draft?

i don't see a good comp for toppin in this draft , i was not a big fan of him last year : playing in a weak division, already 22 yrs old.

[Mr. Body]

Who is this year's Obi Toppin?

Someone who posted gaudy stats, and exhibited elite athleticism in college but looks like a bust now? Quite a few people here thought he was a sure thing to be a star in the NBA, some even wanted to trade up for him.

What lesson can we learn from Obi and apply to this year's draft?

I think there will be a good number of Obi Toppins in this year's draft.

[timvp]

Yesterday's game:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKLdYrrmIbI

This video has good examples of what makes Sengun interesting and also examples of why I'm still iffy about him.

The good: He's coordinated, good athlete on the move, good feel for the game, good flexibility. It's easy to see why he's highly productive. Live I've said previously, I could understand picking him just based on the assumption that he's so productive at such an early age that he's bound to figure it out in the NBA.

The bad: Feet would be considered slow in the NBA. As power forwards get smaller and quicker, I just can't imagine that Sengun is anything but a center, especially when projecting down the road. Also worrisome is that he doesn't have much bounce when stationary and also doesn't have much length. That's a tough combo to overcome, especially for a big who hasn't proven to be a perimeter shooter. At the 0:32 mark and the 3:09 mark, that's Sengun getting stonewalled by 6-foot-7, 225-pound Jeremy Simmons. That's ... not good for a player whose main attribute right now is being an interior scorer.

He's a tough, tough call, IMO. What adds to his intrigue is he was fat just a few months ago so his athleticism is still a work in progress and there's likely some untapped potential in that regard. I don't think he'll rise too high in my Big Board because I don't believe in the value of undersized centers without provable three-point range and who project to be subpar defenders. That archetype just doesn't hold enough value for me to get behind. Sengun's path to being a truly valuable player is narrow -- more narrow than you want when drafting in the lottery. But, again, there are enough glimpses that I wouldn't be mad if the Spurs pick him with the hope that he's still an improving, moldable project who will learn to adapt.

[duncan2150]

This video has good examples of what makes Sengun interesting and also examples of why I'm still iffy about him.

The good: He's coordinated, good athlete on the move, good feel for the game, good flexibility. It's easy to see why he's highly productive. Live I've said previously, I could understand picking him just based on the assumption that he's so productive at such an early age that he's bound to figure it out in the NBA.

The bad: Feet would be considered slow in the NBA. As power forwards get smaller and quicker, I just can't imagine that Sengun is anything but a center, especially when projecting down the road. Also worrisome is that he doesn't have much bounce when stationary and also doesn't have much length. That's a tough combo to overcome, especially for a big who hasn't proven to be a perimeter shooter. At the 0:32 mark and the 3:09 mark, that's Sengun getting stonewalled by 6-foot-7, 225-pound Jeremy Simmons. That's ... not good for a player whose main attribute right now is being an interior scorer.

He's a tough, tough call, IMO. What adds to his intrigue is he was fat just a few months ago so his athleticism is still a work in progress and there's likely some untapped potential in that regard. I don't think he'll rise too high in my Big Board because I don't believe in the value of undersized centers without provable three-point range and who project to be subpar defenders. That archetype just doesn't hold enough value for me to get behind. Sengun's path to being a truly valuable player is narrow -- more narrow than you want when drafting in the lottery. But, again, there are enough glimpses that I wouldn't be mad if the Spurs pick him with the hope that he's still an improving, moldable project who will learn to adapt.

About the bad, i agree he is a center , not undersized in todays nba ( could really be a 6'10 ).
When you talk about getting stonewalled by jeremy simmons , imo there is two things to notice : the first is unlike a lot of prospects he is playing against old mens who are physical, secondly that's not a concern because he did not rely on his body to score, he did not need to bulk players down low but he scores due to his footwork, IQ and touch around the rim. Imo that will translate in the NBA.

[timvp]

The more I go over tape, the more confusing the draft gets, tbh. After the fifth pick, every player is either painfully flawed or has a low ceiling.

-After watching more of Tennessee, I'm lower on Keon Johnson and Springer. Johnson is really athletic but he has the skills of a PF in the body of a SG. His road to being a productive player is longer than I originally thought. Springer is solid but I'm now unconvinced he has the athleticism to be a starting PG. I'd be okay with the Spurs picking Keon. I wouldn't be super excited but I could understand the gamble on his elite athleticism. Springer in the lottery? Ehh, don't think I could behind that.

-Other players who are being mocked high who I wouldn't want the Spurs to pick in the lottery: Davion Mitchell (don't buy his shot, stock is way too inflated right now), Isaiah Jackson (run and jump bigs are dime a dozen), Garuba (awesome defensive prospect but his offense is too far away), Dosunmu (Spurs-y character kid but too small and too unathletic).

-Of the international prospects, I like Giddey the best ... but I could understand passing on him. At the end of the day, he's a subpar athlete, subpar shooter and a subpar defender ... and that's tough to overcome as a prospect. His passing is good but some of his assists where he holds the ball 30 feet from the basket, stands in the pocket like Tom Brady and fires passes to the interior might work in Australia but won't work in the NBA. The fit on the Spurs is also suspect. If they passed on Haliburton, why would they pick Giddey? And since Giddey projects to most likely be a role player in the NBA, picking him isn't even much of a swing for the fences. Gambling to hope he turns into Ingles 2.0 doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a Spurs team that lacks a franchise player.

-I'm still relatively low on Sengun. Awesome production but he's the exact archetype that you don't want: an undersized center who will probably be a 4.5 because he's too slow to defend the perimeter and isn't a three-point shooter. His production is impressive enough that I wouldn't hate the Spurs picking him ... but, man, it's difficult to imagine how he fits in today's NBA. That said, unlike Giddey, Sengun does have a path to stardom, I think. There's a chance that he's just so productive that he'll figure it out one way or another.

-There aren't any other internationals I'd want the Spurs to consider in the lottery. I was intrigued by Roko but the more I watch, the more I think he's not athletic enough to warrant a lottery pick.

-Players on my don't-love-it-but-I-understand-the-pick tier: Barnes, Wagner, Kispert. I think Barnes has a deceptively low floor and will probably end up being a center in the NBA but if he puts it all together, he has star upside as a perimeter player -- so that'd be intriguing enough. Wagner doesn't have a high ceiling but he should be a solid role player who makes players around him better ... and that's a trait the Spurs could use right now. Kispert is the best shooting prospect in the draft. The Spurs obviously need shooting so if they pick Kispert, I'd have to reluctantly nod in approval.

-My interest is waning on Kai Jones. His floor is just so unbelievably low that it'd be tough to pull the trigger on him with a lottery pick. I guess the Spurs can pick him if they think the Samanic project is dead and they want to press the reset button and try again. But, even then, do you really want to use a lottery pick on a guy who's most likely positive outcome is as a rim-running big? Sure, there's that 0.001% chance he becomes a poor man's Giannis but even Samanic was a much more complete player entering the draft.

-I think the only zero hesitation pick in the late lottery for me right now would be Moody. Three-and-D floor with enough upside (mostly due to the rate at which he draws fouls) to easily justify a lottery pick. The only worry from the Spurs perspective would be the complete overlap between Vassell and Moody. But, then again, those types of players are valuable and you can never have too many.

-Players in my f-it-let's-just-pick-someone-who-will-stick-in-the-NBA tier: Jared Butler, Chris Duarte. Drafting either in the lottery would be tooooooooooough but if the Spurs can't trade back, don't believe in any of the projects and just want a safe player who'd be ready to play on Day 1, those would be the two guys.

-Three players I think the Spurs need to consider who look like anti-Spurs on paper: Bouknight, Ziaire Williams, Jalen Johnson. Bouknight had some legal issues in college but it looks like he has the it-factor when it comes to being a scorer. Ziaire was terrible at Stanford but he was a top ten recruit. A 6-foot-8 perimeter player who shows flashes of scoring, playmaking and elite athleticism? In this draft, you can honestly justify picking him anywhere outside of the top five, even though he was hot garbage as a freshman. Jalen Johnson has some character red flags but I'm not even sure those red flags are serious. Hopping from high school to high school and quitting on Duke? Yeah, who cares, tbh? Amateur hoops is a dirty, exploitive world. If you interview him and do your research and he seems like a good kid, I'd look past those supposed red flags. A 6-foot-9 big, physical wing who can handle the ball, pass, rebound and cause havoc on defense with multiple avenues to being really good? Sounds good to me.

All told, the players who have my eye most right now are Moody, Jalen Johnson, Wagner and Kispert -- with Giddey and Ziaire gaining momentum.

Another "Anti-Spur" who probably needs to be considered is Cam Thomas. Didn't like him at first because he plays zero defense, doesn't pass unless he has to and is a B- athlete at best. But he can score. He's a natural-born bulk scorer -- and that's something the Spurs could use, especially if they're not re-signing DeRozan. Thomas averaging 20 points per game isn't difficult to imagine at all. The question with him will never be scoring, it'll be whether he ever becomes a willing passer or can be convinced to play defense.

To put his scoring in perspective, he's the all-time leading scorer at Oak Hill -- the basketball factory that produced Keldon Johnson and before him a long list of highly productive scorers including Carmelo Anthony, Jerry Stackhouse, Stephen Jackson, Ron Mercer, Brandon Jennings, etc, etc. Then he went to LSU and averaged 23 points as a freshman. LSU got to the second round of the tournament, so his production wasn't completely empty -- even though his passing and defense never improved.

Thomas wouldn't normally be someone I'd think the Spurs should consider ... but this draft is weird and the late lottery will very likely require a rather large gamble to be taken. Gambling on a top tier scorer makes an extra amount of sense for these Spurs.

[The Truth #6]

Cam Thomas. That would be an interesting test of Brian Wright’s goal, at least last year, of focusing on defense. I could still see them going for Garuba for some reason. But honestly, whoever they pick is going to have some amount of question marks. A disappointing pick would be Kispert so I’m preparing for that as well.

[duncan2150]

About Sengun athletism and how he is slow footed, i remember having the same impression of Isaiah Stewart last year.
Stewart is stronger( longer wingspan also at 7'4 vs 7'1, nearly the same height) than Alperen but he is not an elite athlet and he was pretty good during his first year in the league.

If Alperen could gain some mass without losing speed, i have no doubt on his ability to be hard to handle inside.

[The Truth #6]

About Sengun athletism and how he is slow footed, i remember having the same impression of Isaiah Stewart last year.
Stewart is stronger( longer wingspan also at 7'4 vs 7'1, nearly the same height) than Alperen but he is not an elite athlet and he was pretty good during his first year in the league.

If Alperen could gain some mass without losing speed, i have no doubt on his ability to be hard to handle inside.

It will be interesting to see how his development is approached by whoever gets him. It's possible teams try to get him to lose weight to gain speed at the expense of power and mass because he's already pretty strong. He's not going to get force fed the ball down low, so he'll have to start out with being some type of role player that has to get by on his feel for the game and making good quick decisions, at least I would think.

I think everyone is going to have to realize that even if we pick at 11, there is no obvious foundational piece available or even best player available—that seems really subjective for this draft. Unfortunately, I think we're looking at team need (as TiVMP hinted at with scoring and Cam Thomas), or possibly even passing with Giddey, or shooting with Kispert, et cetera...unless Brian Wright has a vision for what he is trying to build, and then he'll follow that accordingly.

[duncan2150]

It will be interesting to see how his development is approached by whoever gets him. It's possible teams try to get him to lose weight to gain speed at the expense of power and mass because he's already pretty strong. He's not going to get force fed the ball down low, so he'll have to start out with being some type of role player that has to get by on his feel for the game and making good quick decisions, at least I would think.

I think everyone is going to have to realize that even if we pick at 11, there is no obvious foundational piece available or even best player available—that seems really subjective for this draft. Unfortunately, I think we're looking at team need (as TiVMP hinted at with scoring and Cam Thomas), or possibly even passing with Giddey, or shooting with Kispert, et cetera...unless Brian Wright has a vision for what he is trying to build, and then he'll follow that accordingly.

You may be right it could be interesting for him to slim down or lose some body fat. He will be quicker if he goes that way.

And yes not easy to see who will/could be the best pick at 11/12. Depends on what Spurs will value.

[SAGirl]

Sometimes, I find the draft more entertaining than the actual NBA season. I say that even if the Spurs were doing well. There's just something about the process of learning about each prospect, and watching them blossom in the league that appeals to me. Anyone else feel the same way about finding enjoyment in the draft like I do?
I do. Although in recent years I scout less and less, I used to watch more video in the past. I just don’t have as much time and other interests call my attention. I still really like to learn about them and read scouting impressions. If someone is hyped or recommended I’ll watch highlights. I like guys who can pass the ball well and have high IQ, but I was also a fan of Murray for his athleticism and fearlessness... I like all kinds .. that’s probably my problem as a scout, I don’t necessarily discriminate, so I don’t get too worried about it anymore... ;) I will say this regardless of position the Spurs need a deadeye shooter, preferably one who can shoot off movement... anyone like that here?

I also enjoy watching summer league btw and did even when the Spurs were competing for titles. I like to watch players evolve, develop and grow. Looking forward to see our own Samanic in SL, hopefully his hand is ready.

[pad300]

... At the 0:32 mark and the 3:09 mark, that's Sengun getting stonewalled by 6-foot-7, 225-pound Jeremy Simmons. That's ... not good for a player whose main attribute right now is being an interior scorer.
...

Odd definition of stonewall you got there. He made both buckets (admittedly the second off getting his own rebound). At 0:32, Simmons's feet are at the edge of the lane. At 0:35-36, Sengun is shooting and Simmons's feet are in the circle. 3:09 is less clearcut. Simmons starts in the circle, and Sengun bumps him back about a foot as he goes up on the initial shot. That knock back lets Sengun get his own board, and then he pulls a spin move ...

[JeffDuncan]

...

And yes not easy to see who will/could be the best pick at 11/12. Depends on what Spurs will value.

What the Spurs need is glaring. #30 in the league in 3ptrs made.

Field goals made, better than average, #11.

Free throws made, better than average, #9.

Total rebounds, a little below average, #18.

Assists, average, #16.

Avoiding turnovers, excellent, #2.

Steals, below average; blocks, above average; avoiding personal fouls, well above average, etc.

But 3pt shots made, dead last. The team needs long range shooters - who are not hopeless on defense.

[SAGirl]

What the Spurs need is glaring. #30 in the league in 3ptrs made.

Field goals made, better than average, #11.

Free throws made, better than average, #9.

Total rebounds, a little below average, #18.

Assists, average, #16.

Avoiding turnovers, excellent, #2.

Steals, below average; blocks, above average; avoiding personal fouls, well above average, etc.

But 3pt shots made, dead last. The team needs long range shooters - who are not hopeless on defense.
Great breakdown. 3 pt shots made is the first stat I look in games I didn’t watch and the lost, attempted is second. There’s games they barely made 3-4 threes. Where did you pull your breakdown from?

[Russ]

What the Spurs need is glaring. #30 in the league in 3ptrs made. . . .

But 3pt shots made, dead last. The team needs long range shooters - who are not hopeless on defense.

That's the devil's dilemma -- the guys with the best three-point shooting are also generally the ones with lesser upsides.

So to address the team's most immediate need through the draft may ignore the team's bigger-picture need -- more upside talent.

No great answer to this. (However, the Spurs are pretty good at teaching shooting, other desirable attributes seem less teachable.)

[JeffDuncan]

Great breakdown. 3 pt shots made is the first stat I look in games I didn’t watch and the lost, attempted is second. There’s games they barely made 3-4 threes. Where did you pull your breakdown from?

Stats from here:

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/traditional/?sort=FG3M&dir=-1

[SAGirl]

Stats from here:

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/traditional/?sort=FG3M&dir=-1
Thank you.

[The Truth #6]

That's the devil's dilemma -- the guys with the best three-point shooting are also generally the ones with lesser upsides.

So to address the team's most immediate need through the draft may ignore the team's bigger-picture need -- more upside talent.

No great answer to this. (However, the Spurs are pretty good at teaching shooting, other desirable attributes seem less teachable.)

There are some 1-dimensional shooters available in the second round; that would be my preference over drafting Kispert with their first pick, basically.

[Russ]

There are some 1-dimensional shooters available in the second round; that would be my preference over drafting Kispert with their first pick, basically.

I would agree. Kispert pretty much disappeared against Baylor's NBA-like athletes.