Official San Antonio Spurs 2021 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

[R. DeMurre]

I've always thought that student athletes spend so much time on their sport, they should be given an additional 2-3 years academic scholarship to help earn a real degree in business, science, etc. You can't really do it with their schedule when they play.

Yeah, it's a rigged system where the student athlete makes tons of money for the school, but is somehow supposed to compete on a level playing field in the classroom despite traveling nonstop for games & all of the other obligations that come with being a serious competitor for a high profile D1 institution. How's a player realistically supposed to stay focused on some generic low level class when they're being interviewed by Sports Illustrated and ESPN about how to beat Duke or UCLA leading up to and during March Madness? It's not a reasonable set up.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Franz Wagner embracing life as a student-athlete
by Jacob Kopnick
October 24, 2019

For many student athletes, taking the leap to college represents much of the same, if just on a bigger stage with more responsibilities.

Wake up. Go to school. Go to practice. Complete homework. Eat a ridiculous amount of calories. Go to sleep. Repeat.

Very few incoming college athletes buck this trend in the time between their high school days and their fledgling college careers.

Franz Wagner is an exception.

After finishing high school early, the guard played a year of professional ball for Alba Berlin in Germany’s Bundesliga. Now, he’s back in a classroom, and the 6-foot-8 wing couldn’t be happier about it.


Any high school students reading this are almost certainly scratching their heads at the moment. How could someone ever possibly elect to go back to school, especially after getting a taste of a professional basketball player’s lifestyle?

For Wagner, the answer to that question comes in the form of all of the resources Michigan has to offer, including allowing him to become a more well-rounded human being. With the perspective of having played professional basketball, Wagner now appreciates a life that does not solely focus on the sport.

“(Last year) I played the whole year of basketball, and I felt like it was really for the first couple of months, and I enjoyed it,” Wagner said. “Not having to go to school because I finished high school a year early, and that was really cool for the first couple of months. But after a certain period of time, you feel like, at least I felt like, I needed something more. And that’s part of why I came here.”

As a college freshman, Wagner enjoys spending time in the dorms and meeting new people who are not enmeshed in the world of basketball. He’s embracing his classes as well as expanding on his hobbies which include keeping up with politics and the media.

It shows a wisdom beyond his years to recognize a desire to develop a well-rounded personality after having tasted life as a professional — an experience that will perhaps lend itself handily to his play on the court as well.

Coming in as a highly-touted freshman accompanied by a metric boatload of praise, many in the program are turning to Wagner to fill the void left by last season’s top offensive weapons in Jordan Poole, Ignas Brazdeikis and Charles Matthews.


The wing’s basketball IQ, passing ability, length and defensive ability have excited many around Crisler Center, which makes the news of his recent injury so devastating for the program. Wagner fractured his wrist and will now miss the next four to six weeks.

It’s a crucial blow for the Wolverines early in what’s sure-to-be a transformative season, but once Wagner steps back into the lineup, his talents will shine through. At least, that’s what associate coach Phil Martelli believes.

“I would just suggest that if anybody’s on the fence, if there are tickets available, get your tickets,” Martelli said, “because you’re gonna want to see this kid play. He’s a guy that you come to practice every day and you leave and you just scratch your head. To be that age, to be that cerebral, to be that pure.

“And it’s subtle. It’s like, how did he know to defend there? How did he know to go with the right hand? He’s, and I don’t want to put a lot of pressure on him, but he’s rain man. He’s a rain man in basketball. He’s a savant.”

With such high praise and professional playing experience already under his belt, it’s no wonder the freshman will play at the next level again one day. Whether it be in the NBA like his brother, former Michigan standout Moe Wagner, or back overseas, Franz Wagner will be a professional basketball player.

So, why come to college in the states at all? Surely learning the American game as opposed to the European style played a role in the decision, but Wagner strongly asserts that becoming more well-rounded is a priority at this point in his life.


“I came here for a reason, and it’s not just to play basketball at this time,” Wagner said. “I really want to make the most of my time here. I don’t want to think too much about the future and stuff like that, I want to live in the now right now, and I think that’s the only way to get better, really. If you think too much about the future, it’s not gonna help you.”

http://https://www.michigandaily.com/mens-basketball/franz-wagner-embracing-life-student-athlete/ (https://www.michigandaily.com/mens-basketball/franz-wagner-embracing-life-student-athlete/)

Dude finished High School a year early and played a year of pro ball and sounds like a Popovich wet dream. He is definitely not taking Rocks for Jocks (actual name of a class at Penn State in the early 80s). This makes me like him even more.

[R. DeMurre]

“And it’s subtle. It’s like, how did he know to defend there? How did he know to go with the right hand? He’s, and I don’t want to put a lot of pressure on him, but he’s rain man. He’s a rain man in basketball. He’s a savant.”

Love this as a scouting report!

[TD 21]

Who out of this group is 6'7" or taller?

I'll compile a list if I have to but drafting another swingman or a big wing is vital. We have enough guards and combo guards, and unless Moody falls to us, I'd hope they avoid drafting another (unless they move some ancillary guys for more draft compensation).

I know everyone is against this thinking, but the team's needs dictate it. Especially cause they can possibly plug some (short-term) gaps with their cap space.

Such flawed thinking when none are foundational building blocks. The best one is injury prone (White), the second best one has already tore an ACL (Murray), the third best one has been replacement player caliber so far (Walker IV) and the fourth best one has yet to prove he's an NBA player (Jones).

Before you mention Johnson and Vassell, they're wings, not guards.

[bluebellmaniac]

Franz Wagner embracing life as a student-athlete
by Jacob Kopnick
October 24, 2019

For many student athletes, taking the leap to college represents much of the same, if just on a bigger stage with more responsibilities.

Wake up. Go to school. Go to practice. Complete homework. Eat a ridiculous amount of calories. Go to sleep. Repeat.

Very few incoming college athletes buck this trend in the time between their high school days and their fledgling college careers.

Franz Wagner is an exception.

After finishing high school early, the guard played a year of professional ball for Alba Berlin in Germany’s Bundesliga. Now, he’s back in a classroom, and the 6-foot-8 wing couldn’t be happier about it.


Any high school students reading this are almost certainly scratching their heads at the moment. How could someone ever possibly elect to go back to school, especially after getting a taste of a professional basketball player’s lifestyle?

For Wagner, the answer to that question comes in the form of all of the resources Michigan has to offer, including allowing him to become a more well-rounded human being. With the perspective of having played professional basketball, Wagner now appreciates a life that does not solely focus on the sport.

“(Last year) I played the whole year of basketball, and I felt like it was really for the first couple of months, and I enjoyed it,” Wagner said. “Not having to go to school because I finished high school a year early, and that was really cool for the first couple of months. But after a certain period of time, you feel like, at least I felt like, I needed something more. And that’s part of why I came here.”

As a college freshman, Wagner enjoys spending time in the dorms and meeting new people who are not enmeshed in the world of basketball. He’s embracing his classes as well as expanding on his hobbies which include keeping up with politics and the media.

It shows a wisdom beyond his years to recognize a desire to develop a well-rounded personality after having tasted life as a professional — an experience that will perhaps lend itself handily to his play on the court as well.

Coming in as a highly-touted freshman accompanied by a metric boatload of praise, many in the program are turning to Wagner to fill the void left by last season’s top offensive weapons in Jordan Poole, Ignas Brazdeikis and Charles Matthews.


The wing’s basketball IQ, passing ability, length and defensive ability have excited many around Crisler Center, which makes the news of his recent injury so devastating for the program. Wagner fractured his wrist and will now miss the next four to six weeks.

It’s a crucial blow for the Wolverines early in what’s sure-to-be a transformative season, but once Wagner steps back into the lineup, his talents will shine through. At least, that’s what associate coach Phil Martelli believes.

“I would just suggest that if anybody’s on the fence, if there are tickets available, get your tickets,” Martelli said, “because you’re gonna want to see this kid play. He’s a guy that you come to practice every day and you leave and you just scratch your head. To be that age, to be that cerebral, to be that pure.

“And it’s subtle. It’s like, how did he know to defend there? How did he know to go with the right hand? He’s, and I don’t want to put a lot of pressure on him, but he’s rain man. He’s a rain man in basketball. He’s a savant.”

With such high praise and professional playing experience already under his belt, it’s no wonder the freshman will play at the next level again one day. Whether it be in the NBA like his brother, former Michigan standout Moe Wagner, or back overseas, Franz Wagner will be a professional basketball player.

So, why come to college in the states at all? Surely learning the American game as opposed to the European style played a role in the decision, but Wagner strongly asserts that becoming more well-rounded is a priority at this point in his life.


“I came here for a reason, and it’s not just to play basketball at this time,” Wagner said. “I really want to make the most of my time here. I don’t want to think too much about the future and stuff like that, I want to live in the now right now, and I think that’s the only way to get better, really. If you think too much about the future, it’s not gonna help you.”

http://https://www.michigandaily.com/mens-basketball/franz-wagner-embracing-life-student-athlete/ (https://www.michigandaily.com/mens-basketball/franz-wagner-embracing-life-student-athlete/)

Dude finished High School a year early and played a year of pro ball and sounds like a Popovich wet dream. He is definitely not taking Rocks for Jocks (actual name of a class at Penn State in the early 80s). This makes me like him even more.

tl; dr

What it say?

[PrimeMinister]

tl; dr

What it say?

Wanted to get back in school after playing a year of pro ball in Germany, was excited for the challenge of academics at Michigan.

coaches say he is incredibly cerebral, instinctual, calls his knowledge of the game “head scratching” in a, “how does he know that at his age” kind of way.

kinda reminds me of vassells profile before the draft.

[mo7888]

Who out of this group is 6'7" or taller?

I'll compile a list if I have to but drafting another swingman or a big wing is vital. We have enough guards and combo guards, and unless Moody falls to us, I'd hope they avoid drafting another (unless they move some ancillary guys for more draft compensation).

I know everyone is against this thinking, but the team's needs dictate it. Especially cause they can possibly plug some (short-term) gaps with their cap space.

I'm kinda feeling the same way... outside of the top 5 Wagner and Moody are next on my list... I prefer Wagner because of size and skill but Moody's upside is considerable. If we could trade some of our other wings to get a 2nd pick I'd love to have both and think they'd be better young building blocks than what we have currently on the roster.

[R. DeMurre]

Wanted to get back in school after playing a year of pro ball in Germany, was excited for the challenge of academics at Michigan.

coaches say he is incredibly cerebral, instinctual, calls his knowledge of the game “head scratching” in a, “how does he know that at his age” kind of way.

kinda reminds me of vassells profile before the draft.

Good call: http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=franz-wagner--devin-vassell

[J_Paco]

Such flawed thinking when none are foundational building blocks. The best one is injury prone (White), the second best one has already tore an ACL (Murray), the third best one has been replacement player caliber so far (Walker IV) and the fourth best one has yet to prove he's an NBA player (Jones).

Before you mention Johnson and Vassell, they're wings, not guards.

I clearly stated it was an "unpopular opinion," but the team lacks a starting caliber or "foundational piece" at SF & PF too.

Eventually, those two spots must be addressed (they could be Vassell or Samanic if either takes a big leap) and ignoring (to draft BPA @ guard) them will only prolong the rebuilding process.

And I clearly have said that Moody is an exception to my thinking - he'd be a higher pick in a "weaker" class but could conceivably "fall" too the Spurs - and drafting him would be an upgrade over any of our current crop.

[TD 21]

I clearly stated it was an "unpopular opinion," but the team lacks a starting caliber or "foundational piece" at SF & PF too.

Eventually, those two spots must be addressed (they could be Vassell or Samanic if either takes a big leap) and ignoring (to draft BPA @ guard) them will only prolong the rebuilding process.

And I clearly have said that Moody is an exception to my thinking - he'd be a higher pick in a "weaker" class but could conceivably "fall" too the Spurs - and drafting him would be an upgrade over any of our current crop.

Johnson and Vassell both have starting potential at "SF" and there's probably a good chance of them acquiring Markkanen, a starting caliber "PF", but obviously finding a foundational big wing is far more difficult than doing so with a guard or wing.

At any rate, the biggest need isn't a position, it's high end talent period and the lack of it is the biggest thing prolonging the rebuilding process. If, for example, they think the only player available at 12 with above average starter potential is a guard, they shouldn't hesitate to select them.

[Dejounte]

Franz Wagner embracing life as a student-athlete
by Jacob Kopnick
October 24, 2019

For many student athletes, taking the leap to college represents much of the same, if just on a bigger stage with more responsibilities.

Wake up. Go to school. Go to practice. Complete homework. Eat a ridiculous amount of calories. Go to sleep. Repeat.

Very few incoming college athletes buck this trend in the time between their high school days and their fledgling college careers.

Franz Wagner is an exception.

After finishing high school early, the guard played a year of professional ball for Alba Berlin in Germany’s Bundesliga. Now, he’s back in a classroom, and the 6-foot-8 wing couldn’t be happier about it.


Any high school students reading this are almost certainly scratching their heads at the moment. How could someone ever possibly elect to go back to school, especially after getting a taste of a professional basketball player’s lifestyle?

For Wagner, the answer to that question comes in the form of all of the resources Michigan has to offer, including allowing him to become a more well-rounded human being. With the perspective of having played professional basketball, Wagner now appreciates a life that does not solely focus on the sport.

“(Last year) I played the whole year of basketball, and I felt like it was really for the first couple of months, and I enjoyed it,” Wagner said. “Not having to go to school because I finished high school a year early, and that was really cool for the first couple of months. But after a certain period of time, you feel like, at least I felt like, I needed something more. And that’s part of why I came here.”

As a college freshman, Wagner enjoys spending time in the dorms and meeting new people who are not enmeshed in the world of basketball. He’s embracing his classes as well as expanding on his hobbies which include keeping up with politics and the media.

It shows a wisdom beyond his years to recognize a desire to develop a well-rounded personality after having tasted life as a professional — an experience that will perhaps lend itself handily to his play on the court as well.

Coming in as a highly-touted freshman accompanied by a metric boatload of praise, many in the program are turning to Wagner to fill the void left by last season’s top offensive weapons in Jordan Poole, Ignas Brazdeikis and Charles Matthews.


The wing’s basketball IQ, passing ability, length and defensive ability have excited many around Crisler Center, which makes the news of his recent injury so devastating for the program. Wagner fractured his wrist and will now miss the next four to six weeks.

It’s a crucial blow for the Wolverines early in what’s sure-to-be a transformative season, but once Wagner steps back into the lineup, his talents will shine through. At least, that’s what associate coach Phil Martelli believes.

“I would just suggest that if anybody’s on the fence, if there are tickets available, get your tickets,” Martelli said, “because you’re gonna want to see this kid play. He’s a guy that you come to practice every day and you leave and you just scratch your head. To be that age, to be that cerebral, to be that pure.

“And it’s subtle. It’s like, how did he know to defend there? How did he know to go with the right hand? He’s, and I don’t want to put a lot of pressure on him, but he’s rain man. He’s a rain man in basketball. He’s a savant.”

With such high praise and professional playing experience already under his belt, it’s no wonder the freshman will play at the next level again one day. Whether it be in the NBA like his brother, former Michigan standout Moe Wagner, or back overseas, Franz Wagner will be a professional basketball player.

So, why come to college in the states at all? Surely learning the American game as opposed to the European style played a role in the decision, but Wagner strongly asserts that becoming more well-rounded is a priority at this point in his life.


“I came here for a reason, and it’s not just to play basketball at this time,” Wagner said. “I really want to make the most of my time here. I don’t want to think too much about the future and stuff like that, I want to live in the now right now, and I think that’s the only way to get better, really. If you think too much about the future, it’s not gonna help you.”

http://https://www.michigandaily.com/mens-basketball/franz-wagner-embracing-life-student-athlete/ (https://www.michigandaily.com/mens-basketball/franz-wagner-embracing-life-student-athlete/)

Dude finished High School a year early and played a year of pro ball and sounds like a Popovich wet dream. He is definitely not taking Rocks for Jocks (actual name of a class at Penn State in the early 80s). This makes me like him even more.

Love the article. Almost sounding too good to be true at this point, so I'll set my expectations of the Spurs picking someone else and just hope they turn out good.

[dbestpro]

Johnson and Vassell both have starting potential at "SF" and there's probably a good chance of them acquiring Markkanen, a starting caliber "PF", but obviously finding a foundational big wing is far more difficult than doing so with a guard or wing.

At any rate, the biggest need isn't a position, it's high end talent period and the lack of it is the biggest thing prolonging the rebuilding process. If, for example, they think the only player available at 12 with above average starter potential is a guard, they shouldn't hesitate to select them.

If this the case then they need to dump the guards on this team now. Send em out for draft picks.

[J_Paco]

Johnson and Vassell both have starting potential at "SF" and there's probably a good chance of them acquiring Markkanen, a starting caliber "PF", but obviously finding a foundational big wing is far more difficult than doing so with a guard or wing.

At any rate, the biggest need isn't a position, it's high end talent period and the lack of it is the biggest thing prolonging the rebuilding process. If, for example, they think the only player available at 12 with above average starter potential is a guard, they shouldn't hesitate to select them.

I think Johnsom would be best served being a back up SF/SG where his lack of height and length aren't as huge a detriment & we're in full agreement about Vassell. Although, having more options and depth at those positions especially at PF is needed.

I would be highly, highly disappointed if they waste cap space on a terrible defender that is a blackhole on offense like Lauri. He should be their plan C or D and shouldn't be anywhere near a high priority, IMO.

And of course they're in desperate need of high - end talent, but that alone isn't the issue. They need a better constructed and balanced roster that doesn't have two swingmen starting, but forced out of position (hurting their offense and defense) to do so.

Everything will hinge on either them moving up - somehow - or a talent falling to their spot. I would prefer that guy being a true SF, combo forward or a power forward, but a talent like Moody can't be past up if it's him either. Which could have the ripple effect of moving one or more of Johnson, Walker IV or White to balance things out.

I'm not married to nearly anyone on our current roster, minus Vassell since I like his untapped potential & two - way ability, but see the holes at SF & PF as the biggest concerns currently. High - end talent & volume three - pointing shooting coming in 2nd and 3rd, but clearly need to be addressed too.

[The Truth #6]

Johnson and Vassell both have starting potential at "SF" and there's probably a good chance of them acquiring Markkanen, a starting caliber "PF", but obviously finding a foundational big wing is far more difficult than doing so with a guard or wing.

At any rate, the biggest need isn't a position, it's high end talent period and the lack of it is the biggest thing prolonging the rebuilding process. If, for example, they think the only player available at 12 with above average starter potential is a guard, they shouldn't hesitate to select them.

I agree in theory. But in picking at 12 in a draft with nothing but question marks after around pick 5, it's hard to say who the BPA is. Mock drafts are all over the place, wouldn't you agree?

[exstatic]

[/B]

I agree in theory. But in picking at 12 in a draft with nothing but question marks after around pick 5, it's hard to say who the BPA is. Mock drafts are all over the place, wouldn't you agree?

It’s not hard for the Spurs. They have a complete 60 player draft board set up to go on draft day every year, They simply draft the highest remaining player left on their board. There’s no arguing or wrangling on draft day. That all took place earlier, setting up the board.

[TD 21]

I think Johnsom would be best served being a back up SF/SG where his lack of height and length aren't as huge a detriment & we're in full agreement about Vassell. Although, having more options and depth at those positions especially at PF is needed.

I would be highly, highly disappointed if they waste cap space on a terrible defender that is a blackhole on offense like Lauri. He should be their plan C or D and shouldn't be anywhere near a high priority, IMO.

And of course they're in desperate need of high - end talent, but that alone isn't the issue. They need a better constructed and balanced roster that doesn't have two swingmen starting, but forced out of position (hurting their offense and defense) to do so.

Everything will hinge on either them moving up - somehow - or a talent falling to their spot. I would prefer that guy being a true SF, combo forward or a power forward, but a talent like Moody can't be past up if it's him either. Which could have the ripple effect of moving one or more of Johnson, Walker IV or White to balance things out.

I'm not married to nearly anyone on our current roster, minus Vassell since I like his untapped potential & two - way ability, but see the holes at SF & PF as the biggest concerns currently. High - end talent & volume three - pointing shooting coming in 2nd and 3rd, but clearly need to be addressed too.

In this league now, players with Johnson's combination of build and relatively rudimentary ball skills play 3 and small ball 4.

I'm not a Markkanen fan and would prefer Collins, but he'd fit with what they're trying to do and would fill a few needs, so I'd get it.

Of course high end talent isn't the only issue, but the focus draft wise should be more on trying to accumulate that as opposed to filling a positional need. The latter can come in free agency and/or trade (yeah right).



[/B]

I agree in theory. But in picking at 12 in a draft with nothing but question marks after around pick 5, it's hard to say who the BPA is. Mock drafts are all over the place, wouldn't you agree?

I would. They always are, especially this far in advance. At 12, especially in a draft like this, BPA will be like picking a needle out of a haystack.

[keithington1]

Garuba can’t shoot great yet, but he looks like a mixture of Bam and Kawhi. He would alllow the spurs to play big and he could maybe play 3/4/5 potentially. Spurs would have to draft a second round shooter and sign a shooter.

[rankingtear]

Garuba can’t shoot great yet, but he looks like a mixture of Bam and Kawhi. He would alllow the spurs to play big and he could maybe play 3/4/5 potentially. Spurs would have to draft a second round shooter and sign a shooter.

A lot of people are saying he is Luc Mbah a Moute. Hard to see him averaging more than 10 ppg in the NBA. But defensively he has the best chance to be the ideal playoff defender, I just don't see what value it has for our team.

[exstatic]

A lot of people are saying he is Luc Mbah a Moute. Hard to see him averaging more than 10 ppg in the NBA. But defensively he has the best chance to be the ideal playoff defender, I just don't see what value it has for our team.

Especially with a lottery pick.

Guys like him ‘wow’ in Europe, but get over here, and can’t jump over everyone, and don’t have a solid basketball skill set to fall back on, and they bust.

[The Truth #6]

It’s not hard for the Spurs. They have a complete 60 player draft board set up to go on draft day every year, They simply draft the highest remaining player left on their board. There’s no arguing or wrangling on draft day. That all took place earlier, setting up the board.

Oh, I see what you’re saying as far as the process on draft day. My point is related to the inherent challenges in finding a star/foundational piece when picking at 12 in this draft. In other words, the various factors and processes that go into making that list.

[Degoat]

I’m surprised more people aren’t high on Ziaire Willams, he’s growing on me. He has a ton of potential

[The Truth #6]

I’m surprised more people aren’t high on Ziaire Willams, he’s growing on me. He has a ton of potential

He was discussed a few weeks ago. I got intrigued as well, but I think the consensus was he’d be a reach at 12, and has underwhelmed, which is why he’s dropping.

[Dejounte]

I’m surprised more people aren’t high on Ziaire Willams, he’s growing on me. He has a ton of potential

There was a case last year for Vassell (fundamentally sound on defense, top option on a winning team, good shooter from 3) even if I had distaste drafting him. Ziaire literally has nothing going for him, advance metrics and all. Can't remember a prospect who shoots airballs as much as he does. Biggest bust wherever he's drafted, IMO.

[Degoat]

There was a case last year for Vassell (fundamentally sound on defense, top option on a winning team, good shooter from 3) even if I had distaste drafting him. Ziaire literally has nothing going for him, advance metrics and all. Can't remember a prospect who shoots airballs as much as he does. Biggest bust wherever he's drafted, IMO.

His stats arent very impressive and his shooting percentage is terrible but his shooting mechanics are there, he’s got really good form, he’s 6 foot 8 inches, has length, looks comfortable from the midrange & the 3, I’m not saying he’s who we should get but he’s intriguing imo I think he’s a higher ceiling/ low floor player he’s either gonna be good or a bust lol

[Degoat]

He was discussed a few weeks ago. I got intrigued as well, but I think the consensus was he’d be a reach at 12, and has underwhelmed, which is why he’s dropping.

Yeah, I’m just hoping the spurs get some size in this draft with some potential shooting. It’s tough because outside of the top 6 players or so you could make an argument for players 7-20 at any spot in the top 20 imo

[R. DeMurre]

I'd love to see a betting line on something like Jonathan Kuminga vs Franz Wagner in three years. We all see the athletic superiority of Kuminga, but is an inefficient but aggressive year in the G League at age 18 more impressive than an efficient winning year at Michigan at age 19? That can be a tough call sometimes. Luka Doncic will never match Lonnie Walker's pure athleticism, but it's incredibly unlikely Lonnie ever becomes a better player than Luka, and it wouldn't surprise at all if Wagner turns out to be the more useful player on a future winning NBA roster.

[mo7888]

I'd love to see a betting line on something like Jonathan Kuminga vs Franz Wagner in three years. We all see the athletic superiority of Kuminga, but is an inefficient but aggressive year in the G League at age 18 more impressive than an efficient winning year at Michigan at age 19? That can be a tough call sometimes. Luka Doncic will never match Lonnie Walker's pure athleticism, but it's incredibly unlikely Lonnie ever becomes a better player than Luka, and it wouldn't surprise at all if Wagner turns out to be the more useful player on a future winning NBA roster.

I see it in a similar way. I've got Wagner #6 on my board but, I think he has a real chance to be special.

[PhantomDashCam]

I'd love to see a betting line on something like Jonathan Kuminga vs Franz Wagner in three years. We all see the athletic superiority of Kuminga, but is an inefficient but aggressive year in the G League at age 18 more impressive than an efficient winning year at Michigan at age 19? That can be a tough call sometimes. Luka Doncic will never match Lonnie Walker's pure athleticism, but it's incredibly unlikely Lonnie ever becomes a better player than Luka, and it wouldn't surprise at all if Wagner turns out to be the more useful player on a future winning NBA roster.

Wagner is an interesting one for me. I wonder whether his unique feel for the game and length translate to consistent success at the NBA level? I think he'll have to become a great shooter, not just an average or good one, to stick in the league.

I worry that his length, Defensive I.Q and hustle allow him to mask deficiencies and get away with plays that with the speed and strength of NBA athletes, he just won't have.

At worst, I see him as a tweener and one that is unable to create mismatches on either end of the floor.

I hope I'm wrong and it works out for him. I'm never rooting against anyone and he seems like a great kid too.

[Dejounte]

Wagner is an interesting one for me. I wonder whether his unique feel for the game and length translate to consistent success at the NBA level? I think he'll have to become a great shooter, not just an average or good one, to stick in the league.

I worry that his length, Defensive I.Q and hustle allow him to mask deficiencies and get away with plays that with the speed and strength of NBA athletes, he just won't have.

At worst, I see him as a tweener and one that is unable to create mismatches on either end of the floor.

I hope I'm wrong and it works out for him. I'm never rooting against anyone and he seems like a great kid too.

As opposed to a prospect showcasing all the athleticism in the world but having no IQ on either end? Yeah, I'll take Franz 10 out of 10. We've seen this story happen with Lonnie already. Athletic players don't simply develop good instincts and IQ. White fits your description coming out of college and so far, he's 10 times the defender and offensive player Lonnie is. The league is moving towards more IQ oriented players. I don't remember the last athletic prospect who all of a sudden developed smarts out of thin air. Franz literally hounds guards on defense and made NBA projected players like Scottie and Trendon Watford look silly. I don't know what more he needs to show other than maybe change his skin color, so people can assume he's athletic.

[Russ]

I'd love to see a betting line on something like Jonathan Kuminga vs Franz Wagner in three years.

I'd probably parlay the under on both.

[daslicer]

Come on we all know Universities create some of these programs just to make it so easy anyone can get a degree but not a decent job with the degree. It would be nice that Universities would start doing what a lot of Biology departments do as to how many of there students get accepted to Medical School - so you could see up front how many people get jobs with the degree and could easily find the pay scale.

Had a good friend who told me if I ever marry someone find out how much debt they have as his soon to be wife failed to tell him she owed over 100 hundred thousand dollars from Harvard. I said well that shouldn’t be to bad she must be banking with a degree from a prestigious school like Harvard. He was like fuck no her degree was in sociology- she making 30 grand.

That's really surprising. One of the luxuries of going to these IVY league schools is that you can major in anything and still get a great job on Wall Street. There are a lot of people from these schools with cookie cutting degrees but still end up in investment banking.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/eric_shap/status/1376337789428568064?s=19

https://twitter.com/eric_shap/status/1357788815390343168?s=19

https://twitter.com/tmetcalf11/status/1366827324583407618?s=19

https://twitter.com/SKPearlman/status/1335713235031498756?s=19

"Franz won't be able to guard players in the NBA because uhhhh he ummm he just can't, period. He's not athletic enough! For sure he isn't. Because he just isn't."

[PhantomDashCam]

As opposed to a prospect showcasing all the athleticism in the world but having no IQ on either end? Yeah, I'll take Franz 10 out of 10. We've seen this story happen with Lonnie already. Athletic players don't simply develop good instincts and IQ. White fits your description coming out of college and so far, he's 10 times the defender and offensive player Lonnie is. The league is moving towards more IQ oriented players. I don't remember the last athletic prospect who all of a sudden developed smarts out of thin air. Franz literally hounds guards on defense and made NBA projected players like Scottie and Trendon Watford look silly. I don't know what more he needs to show other than maybe change his skin color, so people can assume he's athletic.

White's case is a unique one and don't think that's a fair comparison to Franz. White could shoot coming out of college, people were just concerned about his age more than anything else.
White has more in common with Duarte than Wagner.

I'm not all about the "athleticism" but I do worry about what role our draft picks will play and the road map ahead to maximize their potential.

At best what do you think Franz will become? What about at worst? How does his game project? Are you calling him an elite defender at the NBA level already? If not, do you think he'll become one?
What's his position?

All things need to be weighed up equally.

I made my case for the doubts. You made yours for the positives.
A lot of scouts are with you btw.

Not playing the role of contrarian, just think he reminds me a little of Garuba (less defense, better Offensive version). IMHO, not sure I want to take that at #12.

[Dejounte]

White's case is a unique one and don't think that's a fair comparison to Franz. White could shoot coming out of college, people were just concerned about his age more than anything else.
White has more in common with Duarte than Wagner.

I'm not all about the "athleticism" but I do worry about what role our draft picks will play and the road map ahead to maximize their potential.

At best what do you think Franz will become? What about at worst? How does his game project? Are you calling him an elite defender at the NBA level already? If not, do you think he'll become one?
What's his position?

All things need to be weighed up equally.

I made my case for the doubts. You made yours for the positives.
A lot of scouts are with you btw.

Not playing the role of contrarian, just think he reminds me a little of Garuba (less defense, better Offensive version). IMHO, not sure I want to take that at #12.

Let me explain why the mere mention of Franz being unathletic irks me: People use the word "unathletic" more liberally for players who can't do a powerful dunk. I remember Obi Toppin and people were in awe at how athletic he was, yet it was "athletic" in an area where it mattered least: a dunk that is worth 2 points. Obi was unathletic in his inability to move laterally, yet people are afraid to push the button for that word because of his high flying ability. All the while, he is giving up 10+ points on the defensive end because he is consistently out of position or blown by his man for an easy 2. Contrast that with a guy like Franz, who actually has shown ability to keep up with numerous types of players, including speedy ones, yet he is the one questioned most for his ability to guard NBA players. Why? We hold these strange stereotypes to players who can pull off powerful dunks. That's why. Potential is tied to those powerful dunks even though the top NBA players these days are still extremely effective without needing to pull off acrobatic dunks.

Wherever Franz goes, he will be useful right away as a utility player in the mold of someone like Xavier Tillman. I am not calling him an elite NBA defender off the bat, I don't need to make extreme claims. All I know is, I love the way he plays and think he would benefit a lot from being drafted by the Spurs. The Spurs work well with the type of canvas (i.e. Kawhi, White, Vassell) Franz has, rather than a blank one like Lonnie. I imagine they'll tailor him to be a role player first, to which people will freak out about like they usually do around here because they're impatient, and then develop his skills year by year. I think he has a nice template, given that he has shown an ability to score from everywhere (3's, mid-range, near the rim), even flashed a turnaround J from mid-range several times. Somehow, Franz is penalized for buying in to his coach's game plan and was willing to share the ball more even though he was clearly projected to go to the NBA and could raise his stock simply by calling his number more... but he didn't because he wanted to play the right way. The best in the game have high processing speeds (able to think on their feet or see a play right before it happens), and he has that. Anyway, wherever he is drafted he will be easy to root for, as he has the style of play I enjoy: selfless, smart, and ballsy.

[Atl Spur]

As opposed to a prospect showcasing all the athleticism in the world but having no IQ on either end? Yeah, I'll take Franz 10 out of 10. We've seen this story happen with Lonnie already. Athletic players don't simply develop good instincts and IQ. White fits your description coming out of college and so far, he's 10 times the defender and offensive player Lonnie is. The league is moving towards more IQ oriented players. I don't remember the last athletic prospect who all of a sudden developed smarts out of thin air. Franz literally hounds guards on defense and made NBA projected players like Scottie and Trendon Watford look silly. I don't know what more he needs to show other than maybe change his skin color, so people can assume he's athletic.

This!

[mo7888]

Franz Wagner- at best Luka Doncic with much better D

At worst Tom Gugliotta

probably somewhere in between but in the upper half of that range

[Dejounte]

Franz Wagner- at best Luka Doncic with much better D

At worst Tom Gugliotta

probably somewhere in between but in the upper half of that range


For me,

At best: Taller Manu, with better defense and less flopping

Likely: Taller Goran Dragic, with better defense

At worst: A cross between Andre Iguodala and Robert Covington

Franz has a very "Euro" style to his game, in a good way.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/jollyrogerwilco/status/988165526517108736

https://twitter.com/DefPenHoops/status/919017611932905472

Nothing eye-popping about the athleticism in these plays.

Simple, get-shit-done layups and winning plays like these are a lost art, or are underappreciated these days.

[jjspur]

Yeah, I’m just hoping the spurs get some size in this draft with some potential shooting. It’s tough because outside of the top 6 players or so you could make an argument for players 7-20 at any spot in the top 20 imo
If you draft someone with size, great you can try to teach them to shoot better, if you draft for shooting, chances are you don't get size. If you can get size and shooting you're probably drafting in the top 10. Unfortunately the spurs probably draft at 12. Maybe we beat the odds and land a top 4 pick, but those are some long odds.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/DefPenHoops/status/846531636229492736

https://twitter.com/EuroCup/status/1115695597556838400

[PhantomDashCam]

Let me explain why the mere mention of Franz being unathletic irks me: People use the word "unathletic" more liberally for players who can't do a powerful dunk. I remember Obi Toppin and people were in awe at how athletic he was, yet it was "athletic" in an area where it mattered least: a dunk that is worth 2 points. Obi was unathletic in his inability to move laterally, yet people are afraid to push the button for that word because of his high flying ability. All the while, he is giving up 10+ points on the defensive end because he is consistently out of position or blown by his man for an easy 2. Contrast that with a guy like Franz, who actually has shown ability to keep up with numerous types of players, including speedy ones, yet he is the one questioned most for his ability to guard NBA players. Why? We hold these strange stereotypes to players who can pull off powerful dunks. That's why. Potential is tied to those powerful dunks even though the top NBA players these days are still extremely effective without needing to pull off acrobatic dunks.

Wherever Franz goes, he will be useful right away as a utility player in the mold of someone like Xavier Tillman. I am not calling him an elite NBA defender off the bat, I don't need to make extreme claims. All I know is, I love the way he plays and think he would benefit a lot from being drafted by the Spurs. The Spurs work well with the type of canvas (i.e. Kawhi, White, Vassell) Franz has, rather than a blank one like Lonnie. I imagine they'll tailor him to be a role player first, to which people will freak out about like they usually do around here because they're impatient, and then develop his skills year by year. I think he has a nice template, given that he has shown an ability to score from everywhere (3's, mid-range, near the rim), even flashed a turnaround J from mid-range several times. Somehow, Franz is penalized for buying in to his coach's game plan and was willing to share the ball more even though he was clearly projected to go to the NBA and could raise his stock simply by calling his number more... but he didn't because he wanted to play the right way. The best in the game have high processing speeds (able to think on their feet or see a play right before it happens), and he has that. Anyway, wherever he is drafted he will be easy to root for, as he has the style of play I enjoy: selfless, smart, and ballsy.

I never called him un-athletic or a subpar athlete though. Seems you have an issue with people that did or do.
I would grade him overall as a solid athlete (above average, bordering to good) taking into account all the various measurables, metrics and projectables we have access to so far.
(Perhaps the combine sheds some more light on this).

Even in some of those clips you posted, I think he will get burnt by a different class of athlete or Offensive talent.

Everyone we pick at #12 is a project of some description and will start their careers as a role player first.

Franz seems like a jack-of-all trades type. Lots to work with there.
The question then is do any of those skills become good enough to see consistent NBA minutes as he matures? For me, if you're buying him becoming a great shooter, the path seems much clearer.

I agree with the processing speed part. The guy can't self create, drive left, shoot consistently from range or finish through the trees yet though. Those traits as well as what I've mentioned in previous posts, give me pause.

[Dejounte]

"I worry that his length, Defensive I.Q and hustle allow him to mask deficiencies and get away with plays that with the speed and strength of NBA athletes, he just won't have."

I don't know. This sentence seemed like you were implying he was unathletic, or not athletic enough.

This "different class of athlete/ offensive talent" just seems made-up to me. Like, you can pretty much use that line for all prospects in the draft but it's just convenient to use for Franz because again, I don't know why. Franz defends speedy guards as well as or better than almost every prospect (who are his size). Why is that phrase not used for someone like Barnes? Hell, Jalen Johnson is actually pretty bad on defense yet you seem to have no motive to use that line for him. To each his own.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/Shot_Quality/status/1390350003244240900?s=19

"Can't self-create"

[Seventyniner]

Simple, get-shit-done layups and winning plays like these are a lost art, or are underappreciated these days.

This.

[BacktoBasics]

A lot arguing over a guy who is likely gone by our pick.

[PhantomDashCam]

"I worry that his length, Defensive I.Q and hustle allow him to mask deficiencies and get away with plays that with the speed and strength of NBA athletes, he just won't have."

I don't know. This sentence seemed like you were implying he was unathletic, or not athletic enough.

This "different class of athlete/ offensive talent" just seems made-up to me. Like, you can pretty much use that line for all prospects in the draft but it's just convenient to use for Franz because again, I don't know why. Franz defends speedy guards as well as or better than almost every prospect (who are his size). Why is that phrase not used for someone like Barnes? Hell, Jalen Johnson is actually pretty bad on defense yet you seem to have no motive to use that line for him. To each his own.

Aren't we talking about Franz? Jalen Johnson? Not sure I've ever discussed him in any of my posts.

Here's a pretty complimentary scouting report on Franz but notice the positive/negative Athletic concerns:

https://rollcallsportsnet.com/franz-wagner-nba-draft-scouting-report/


Tools and Movement Skills
large hips / wide shoulders / room to add weight to frame


fluid athlete overall / very mobile / sprinted the floor well / appeared to be well-conditioned
decent footspeed / pretty light on feet / sure-footed / moved well laterally / large strides
decent vertical / relatively quick load-ups / generally quick off the floor / strong off of two feet / fluid off of either foot



good strength / sturdy stance
quick, reactive hands / pretty strong hands



middling first-step / not particularly fast overall

lacking a bit of flexibility / somewhat stiff posture



I agree with the bolded type. It's a worry for me.

If you can't shoot consistently, you will have difficulty with shot creation without a "Ben Simmons/Giannis A." athletic profile at the NBA level.

Manu's threat of the 3 opens up his entire game, even at this stage late in his career.
You are talking about a HOF guard too bud, an outlier all things considered.

We can disagree on this one Dejounte. Thanks for the effort with the clips though. :tu

[Dejounte]

A lot arguing over a guy who is likely gone by our pick.

Literally nothing else Spurs-related to talk about. Or would you rather we spam the board with useless troll shit like that idiot Ghazi? Honestly, I'm 100% prepared for Franz to be gone or maybe even passed up by the Spurs. I like other guys too: Sengun, Bouk, Moody, Mann, Giddey, etc.

[Sugus]

https://twitter.com/DefPenHoops/status/846531636229492736

https://twitter.com/EuroCup/status/1115695597556838400

I'm bought tbh, trade up for this guy :greedy

[R. DeMurre]

One of the other intriguing things about Wagner is his really low usage rate, which was just under 20%, lower than any other potential lottery pick. To get as much accomplished as he does, and to post such positive offensive metrics with a usage rate that low is impressive. His assist-to-turnover ratio improved dramatically between years 1 and 2 at Michigan-- which is a great sign-- and his passing & ballhandling look good, but will he ever become a lead option on offense, or he is more of a glue guy that fits & helps any system?

[rankingtear]

For me,

At best: Taller Manu, with better defense and less flopping

Likely: Taller Goran Dragic, with better defense

At worst: A cross between Andre Iguodala and Robert Covington

Franz has a very "Euro" style to his game, in a good way.

Your comps are pretty athletic guards. Deni Avdija is the most mentioned one , from articles citing how NBA execs sees him.

[mo7888]

For me,

At best: Taller Manu, with better defense and less flopping

Likely: Taller Goran Dragic, with better defense

At worst: A cross between Andre Iguodala and Robert Covington

Franz has a very "Euro" style to his game, in a good way.

Those aren't bad comps... I just think if he has the proper mentality and he can shoot above 38% from 3 he can be the best player in this draft and the best player on a team that can compete. If he doesn't have that mentality or if his shot doesn't develop then he's a nice role player that can initiate offense and play D. It's his upside that's most intriguing to me.

[rjv]

I can't give wagner a "taller manu" comp and that's not a knock on wagner. manu had a lot of intangibles coming out of virtus bologna and one of them was the lack of fear in big moments. we have too small of a sample size from wagner to measure this. he didn't have a tourney in 2020 and he was solid for most of the 2021 tournament with the exception of the UCLA game, in which he was very underwhelming. franz does seem to have the IQ. he does seem to have the toughness but whether or not he has that "it" factor isn't known yet.

[Dejounte]

I can't give wagner a "taller manu" comp and that's not a knock on wagner. manu had a lot of intangibles coming out of virtus bologna and one of them was the lack of fear in big moments. we have too small of a sample size from wagner to measure this. he didn't have a tourney in 2020 and he was solid for most of the 2021 tournament with the exception of the UCLA game, in which he was very underwhelming. franz does seem to have the IQ. he does seem to have the toughness but whether or not he has that "it" factor isn't known yet.

Manu has had his fair share of botching big moments; I recall the 2013 Finals where he was clearly one of the main reasons for the loss due to the sloppy play and many turnovers he had. Shit happens, but like with all things, it's a gamble and hopefully he has been scouted enough by the Spurs to be able to tell his basketball mentality.

[rjv]

Manu has had his fair share of botching big moments; I recall the 2013 Finals where he was clearly one of the main reasons for the loss due to the sloppy play and many turnovers he had. Shit happens, but like with all things, it's a gamble and hopefully he has been scouted enough by the Spurs to be able to tell his basketball mentality.

big time players botch big moments. lebron has botched some games. what i mean is that manu never lacked the balls to compete, perhaps to a fault at times. you have that or you don't. i hate to say it but i don't think lonnie does. i think samanic might. i haven't seen enough from wagner (due to circumstances outside his control) to know. but he does have some of the other components. of course, i think it's a moot point because if wagner has a solid enough combine, i think he's gone before 12.

[The Truth #6]

I'm on board with Wagner if he's still available, though would probably prefer Moody if he was somehow still available.

Wagner has a low chance of busting. I mean, his floor is super solid. How he improves and adapts will be the question in regards to how good he can be, but that's a question for every single player. Players like this typically have good trade value for contenders, so that's reassuring in case he ever is to be moved. I know we need to find the next star, but we also need player who can come in and bring some IQ to the game—that's really needed. We are likely going to lose next year no matter what, but I'd prefer the team still played an interesting brand of basketball. An anti-Derozan player isn't the worst thing.

Dejounte: this is a random question/thought, but have you seen much of his brother's play? I think he's in the NBA. Granted brothers can have vastly different games (see Steph vs Seth, obviously) but I'm curious to see how his brother's game was evaluated before he was drafted and if there are any similariteis there to glean from. Anyway, just a random thought...

[rjv]

another mock draft that has josh giddey to the spurs (with a ricky rubio/even turner comp):

https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/nba-mock-draft-cade-cunningham-jalen-suggs-houston-rockets


btw, it has wagner at 17 (no comp given) and moody at 13 (mikail bridges comp).

[GreekSpursfan]

I'm already in the 2022 NBA draft where we should go after Nikola Jovic. We need to tank hard next season.

[Russ]

NBADraft.net just updated.

They have the Spurs picking Kai Jones at 12.

The next 13 picks, to Tre Mann, are listed below. The players most discussed here are bolded.

13 Indiana Corey Kispert 6-7 220 SG/SF Gonzaga Sr.
14 *Golden St. Ziaire Williams 6-8 185 SG/SF Stanford Fr.
15 Washington Franz Wagner 6-9 220 SF/PF Michigan So.
16 Boston Josh Giddey 6-8 205 PG Australia Intl.
17 Memphis Ayo Dosunmu 6-5 200 PG/SG Illinois Jr.
18 *Houston Josh Christopher 6-4 215 SG Arizona St. Fr.
19 New York Nah'Shon Hyland 6-3 175 PG VCU So.
20 Atlanta Jaden Springer 6-4 205 SG Tennessee Fr.
21 *New York Cameron Thomas 6-4 210 SG LSU Fr.
22 *LA Lakers Miles McBride 6-2 200 PG West Virginia So.
23 *Houston Usman Garuba 6-8 230 PF/C Spain Intl.
24 *Houston Johnny Juzang 6-6 210 SF UCLA So.
25 *LA Clippers Tre Mann

I'm starting to like Usman Garuba as a high-end sleeper. Hard to see him falling to 23.

[cd98]

How about use the pick and a player to trade up? It would be nice, though probably not going to happen in this draft.

[mo7888]

How about use the pick and a player to trade up? It would be nice, though probably not going to happen in this draft.

Only if a player and pick gets you into the top 5... after 5 it's more of a crap shoot and not worth moving up...

[BackHome]

I'm already in the 2022 NBA draft where we should go after Nikola Jovic. We need to tank hard next season.

Haha that boy plays with very bad intentions definitely not close to being called soft so I am not sure he would fit on this team. He was one of the first guys I looked at and I was like let me check out this 2022 draft and you know I think it’s better then this draft. Besides Nikola I like Patrick Baldwin, Paulo Branchero, and off course Chet.

[look_at_g_shred]

Haha that boy plays with very bad intentions definitely not close to being called soft so I am not sure he would fit on this team. He was one of the first guys I looked at and I was like let me check out this 2022 draft and you know I think it’s better then this draft. Besides Nikola I like Patrick Baldwin, Paulo Branchero, and off course Chet.
Branchero's build is crazy. At that size the way he handles the ball.....sheesh. Def my pick

[GreekSpursfan]

Haha that boy plays with very bad intentions definitely not close to being called soft so I am not sure he would fit on this team. He was one of the first guys I looked at and I was like let me check out this 2022 draft and you know I think it’s better then this draft. Besides Nikola I like Patrick Baldwin, Paulo Branchero, and off course Chet.

Agreed

[The Truth #6]

Jalen Johnson. I’m really curious about how the Spurs do their due diligence on him. I mean, he easily could be available. I get the concerns: motivation, dedication, outside shooting. I’d like to think he’s like Diaw: seen as lazy or difficult but dud well in the Spurs. Yes, I know the situation is different. I realize he could bust like a less motivated Wiggins. But at 12 the Spurs have to find out for themselves. Anyway, I could see him as a darkhorse, so to speak, for a player they pick if their other guys are gone. I’m not advocating either way, just speculating.

Either he is a steal of the draft or he steals a team’s money.

[Mr. Body]

Jalen Johnson. I’m really curious about how the Spurs do their due diligence on him. I mean, he easily could be available. I get the concerns: motivation, dedication, outside shooting. I’d like to think he’s like Diaw: seen as lazy or difficult but dud well in the Spurs. Yes, I know the situation is different. I realize he could bust like a less motivated Wiggins. But at 12 the Spurs have to find out for themselves. Anyway, I could see him as a darkhorse, so to speak, for a player they pick if their other guys are gone. I’m not advocating either way, just speculating.

Either he is a steal of the draft or he steals a team’s money.

Isn't he an incredibly shitty defender?

[duncan2150]

Isn't he an incredibly shitty defender?

his weakness is the shoot, by the numbers 1.2 Steal and 1.2 Block in 21 minutes per game is pretty good. He has a good lateral quickness and he can guard multiple positions imo.

[rjv]

I'm okay with taking someone who is not a great shooter at this point but they better have the potential to shoot. And if the Spurs pick up another average shooter I sure hope they make up for that by going after some shooters in FA.

[Dejounte]

his weakness is the shoot, by the numbers 1.2 Steal and 1.2 Block in 21 minutes per game is pretty good. He has a good lateral quickness and he can guard multiple positions imo.

https://twitter.com/ThompsonScribe/status/1391986198810218496?s=19

Watch him a little bit. Don't just look at numbers. He's a bad defender. The same, if not worse than, level of defender as Obi. His hips are stiff, and is often caught out of position.


https://youtu.be/T4oSHpkXz_0

[duncan2150]

https://twitter.com/ThompsonScribe/status/1391986198810218496?s=19

Watch him a little bit. Don't just look at numbers. He's a bad defender. The same, if not worse than, level of defender as Obi. His hips are stiff, and is often caught out of position.


https://youtu.be/T4oSHpkXz_0

man, i don't look to the numbers only and i watched some tape. Im not saying he is good on D but when you average more than a block as a wing ( in 21 minutes) you can't say it's an hazard.

My opinion is that he is not bad and he has all the tools to be a good defender.

And if i was only watching the numbers i would tell you that he can shoot the three ( 44% with 1.4 attempts per game ) but that's not the case.

[exstatic]

Manu has had his fair share of botching big moments; I recall the 2013 Finals where he was clearly one of the main reasons for the loss due to the sloppy play and many turnovers he had. Shit happens, but like with all things, it's a gamble and hopefully he has been scouted enough by the Spurs to be able to tell his basketball mentality.
Dallas 2006, the Dirk foul.

[exstatic]

man, i don't look to the numbers only and i watched some tape. Im not saying he is good on D but when you average more than a block as a wing ( in 21 minutes) you can't say it's an hazard.

My opinion is that he is not bad and he has all the tools to be a good defender.

And if i was only watching the numbers i would tell you that he can shoot the three ( 44% with 1.4 attempts per game ) but that's not the case.

Dejounte isn’t lying about the hips. They are the absolute key to lateral mobility. I posted this last year, but college DBs with flexible hips go on to be NFL cornerbacks,and make a shit ton of money. Those without become NFL safeties, and make far less money as a group.

[PhantomDashCam]

A good case for Jaden Springer at #12 (if available)...

Turns 19 in September and "may not have finished growing with both parents over 6′9"

https://www.prospectiveinsight.com/post/scouting-jaden-springer


Summary

The point of the lottery is to find upside bets. For the modern NBA, these bets take the shape of two-way advantage creators with strong physical tools that are versatile on both ends of the floor. Springer has the chance to be one of those players. He offers guard creator skills in essentially a 3 & D wing’s body, taking away the usual deficiencies that come on the defensive end. We’ve seen the value of a player like Jrue Holiday and Kyle Lowry in the playoffs. Not only does it allow their teams to potentially keep five positive defenders on the court in late-game situations, but it also presents the opportunity to play them alongside a “negative” defender, increasing the different lineup combinations that a team could roll out offensively. Springer is a strength-based player with rim pressure and a dogged on-ball defender.

[Dex]

Dallas 2006, the Dirk foul.

Perfect case of you "you live by the Manu, you die by the Manu".

Spurs actually wouldn't have even have been that close without him...then he got too aggressive on a defensive play that didn't call for it

[exstatic]

Perfect case of you "you live by the Manu, you die by the Manu".

Spurs actually wouldn't have even have been that close without him...then he got too aggressive on a defensive play that didn't call for it

After Pop stressed in no uncertain terms…NO FOULS.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/1399954093225832450

[R. DeMurre]

https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/1399954093225832450

The front offices of G League teams have a lot of work in front of them.

That would be a pretty cool job-- scanning the landscape for the best undrafted guys.

[Mr. Body]

Intrigued where Juzang goes. Could be a bust, could create a lot of slapped forwards wondering why so many skipped on him.

[bluebellmaniac]

26 days until the Lottery

63 days until the Draft

20 days until the Lottery

57 days until the Draft

[SpursDynasty85]

https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/1399954093225832450


confident Spurs will pick up a nice piece at least.

[Seventyniner]

The front offices of G League teams have a lot of work in front of them.

That would be a pretty cool job-- scanning the landscape for the best undrafted guys.

I agree. I think it's awesome that the NBA finally has a true minor league. Basketball is such a top-heavy strong link sport that I doubt there would ever be a need for another minor league under the G-League, but it would still be cool to see.

[exstatic]

Intrigued where Juzang goes. Could be a bust, could create a lot of slapped forwards wondering why so many skipped on him.

He took seemingly forever to declare after that great tournament run. I think even he knows he’s not a top prospect. He’s not a great creator, more of a catch and shoot guy. Doesn’t have top athleticism. Probably a low rotation energy scoring spark guy. Likely a second rounder, if he stays in the draft.

[exstatic]

I agree. I think it's awesome that the NBA finally has a true minor league. Basketball is such a top-heavy strong link sport that I doubt there would ever be a need for another minor league under the G-League, but it would still be cool to see.

I was very pro gleague until only 17 of the 29 teams went into the Gubble. I still don’t think the NBA takes it serious enough.

[The Truth #6]

https://twitter.com/ThompsonScribe/status/1391986198810218496?s=19

Watch him a little bit. Don't just look at numbers. He's a bad defender. The same, if not worse than, level of defender as Obi. His hips are stiff, and is often caught out of position.


https://youtu.be/T4oSHpkXz_0

Yeah, that video shows way too many clips of him barely trying on defense; his close outs on 3s are really, really weak too often.

I brought up Jalen Johnson to try and find players to discuss, basically. He looks like a pass for sure. The team can't bring in a low effort defender, especially not with this pick.

[BackHome]

I don’t have a Pet Cat in this years draft but I do have a few players I don’t want and he is my Top Hard Pass list

[R. DeMurre]

Kevin O'Connor's mock: https://nbadraft.theringer.com/mock-draft

His take on Wagner:



Coordinated and decisive scorer who attacks with a plan the moment he receives a pass.
Glue-guy skills on offense: keeps the ball moving, relocates, screens, and has innate timing on his cuts.
Does an excellent job of sealing off smaller defenders on the post, which could be of great value against switching defenses.
Has a computer brain on defense. Reads plays instantly and disrupts actions by beating opponents to their spots. He will make a significant impact as an off-ball defender throughout his career



(But unfortunately for Wagner fans has him going at #9)

[R. DeMurre]

His Comps on Kuminga: Danny Granger, Luol Deng, Jeff Green

[Seventyniner]

I was very pro gleague until only 17 of the 29 teams went into the Gubble. I still don’t think the NBA takes it serious enough.

True. It has come a long way, but still has a ways to go. There needs to be 30 full G-League teams with one-to-one affiliations and none of this player sharing crap. I'm okay with there being unaffiliated teams like the Ignite too.

[Mr. Body]

He took seemingly forever to declare after that great tournament run. I think even he knows he’s not a top prospect. He’s not a great creator, more of a catch and shoot guy. Doesn’t have top athleticism. Probably a low rotation energy scoring spark guy. Likely a second rounder, if he stays in the draft.

Uh... he's not a catch and shoot guy. He has deficiencies, but... have you actually watched him play? Good lord.

[exstatic]

Uh... he's not a catch and shoot guy. He has deficiencies, but... have you actually watched him play? Good lord.

Then, what is he? Absolute crap? Because he’s in the 29% in creating his own. Dejointe posted this a few pages back. Look at the very bottom…

https://twitter.com/shot_quality/status/1390350003244240900?s=21

[Mr. Body]

Then, what is he? Absolute crap? Because he’s in the 29% in creating his own. Dejointe posted this a few pages back. Look at the very bottom…

https://twitter.com/shot_quality/status/1390350003244240900?s=21

Hmm... guess that Tournament didn't happen and he wasn't actually a craft shot creator all year. Hmm mmm. Lol, in what universe would you think Wagner is actually a better individual scorer than Juzang in college?

[The Truth #6]

Juzang looks like a great deep shooter but had high usage and tried to do too much. Looks like a bad defender. He will need to focus on shooting, maybe a dribble or two when the clock is low, but he can’t get separation in college usually, so that will just get exacerbated in the NBA. Looks like a 9th man. I would look elsewhere but if he was around for the second round, then worth considering.

[exstatic]

Juzang looks like a great deep shooter but had high usage and tried to do too much. Looks like a bad defender. He will need to focus on shooting, maybe a dribble or two when the clock is low, but he can’t get separation in college usually, so that will just get exacerbated in the NBA. Looks like a 9th man. I would look elsewhere but if he was around for the second round, then worth considering.

He actually shot 35% from beyond the NCAA arc, although he projects to shoot better in the NBA, like 38%, based on his 88% FTs. My guess is that his shot selection is poor. Based on his anemic nearly dead assist rate, that’s probably accurate, since he hardly passes the ball.

[The Truth #6]

He actually shot 35% from beyond the NCAA arc, although he projects to shoot better in the NBA, like 38%, based on his 88% FTs. My guess is that his shot selection is poor. Based on his anemic nearly dead assist rate, that’s probably accurate, since he hardly passes the ball.

Yeah, his shooting mechanics are great. And he shot well off a few dribbles from what I understand. But he can’t defend nor drive by anyone. He pounds the air out of the ball, which is a problem for him, so that would have to change. A less athletic Bertans?

[Degoat]

I have a feeling it’ll come down to Alperen Sengun or Josh Giddey, which I’d be happy with either one tbh with a side chance of Tre Mann, he seems like the out of left field spurs selection

[PhantomDashCam]

I have a feeling it’ll come down to Alperen Sengun or Josh Giddey, which I’d be happy with either one tbh with a side chance of Tre Mann, he seems like the out of left field spurs selection

I think the Raptors are giving serious consideration to taking Giddey at 7 based on some reports:
https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-scouting-josh-giddey-for-2021-nba-draft


Two Raptors scouts including Raptors Director of Global Scouting Patrick Engelbrecht have reportedly ventured down to Australia to watch NBA lottery-bound prospect Josh Giddey…

"The fact Engelbrecht and his co-worker have flown halfway around the world when the Australian Government mandates any international traveller must quarantine for 14 days, means the Raptors are seriously interested in Giddey as a draft prospect," Matt Logue reported Saturday.

With Giddey - would the Spurs be after a ball dominant PG, who is currently a mediocre shooter, defender and athlete; to be a part of the future at arguably their deepest position? I just don’t see it. I think they’re committed to the trio of DJ, White and Tre J; at least for a full, traditional season. I think then it will be reassessed at the end of next year.

I believe the Spurs are after a player who checks the requisite boxes for BPA, character, versatility and whose role can develop around the current core. I also think that having a solid or developing jumper from range will be a non negotiable.

I think it will come down Sengun, Moody, Springer, Mann, Kispert, Wagner and maybe, maybe Kai Jones and Usman Garuba, (not necessarily in that order).

[The Truth #6]

I think the Raptors are giving serious consideration to taking Giddey at 7 based on some reports:
https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-scouting-josh-giddey-for-2021-nba-draft



With Giddey - would the Spurs be after a ball dominant PG, who is currently a mediocre shooter, defender and athlete; to be a part of the future at arguably their deepest position? I just don’t see it. I think they’re committed to the trio of DJ, White and Tre J; at least for a full, traditional season. I think then it will be reassessed at the end of next year.

I believe the Spurs are after a player who checks the requisite boxes for BPA, character, versatility and whose role can develop around the current core. I also think that having a solid or developing jumper from range will be a non negotiable.

I think it will come down Sengun, Moody, Springer, Mann, Kispert, Wagner and maybe, maybe Kai Jones and Usman Garuba, (not necessarily in that order).


Yeah, I think that’s a solid list of likely candidates. I don’t see Giddey, either. They are all in on Dejounte for whatever reason.

[Degoat]

I think the Raptors are giving serious consideration to taking Giddey at 7 based on some reports:
https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-scouting-josh-giddey-for-2021-nba-draft



With Giddey - would the Spurs be after a ball dominant PG, who is currently a mediocre shooter, defender and athlete; to be a part of the future at arguably their deepest position? I just don’t see it. I think they’re committed to the trio of DJ, White and Tre J; at least for a full, traditional season. I think then it will be reassessed at the end of next year.

I believe the Spurs are after a player who checks the requisite boxes for BPA, character, versatility and whose role can develop around the current core. I also think that having a solid or developing jumper from range will be a non negotiable.

I think it will come down Sengun, Moody, Springer, Mann, Kispert, Wagner and maybe, maybe Kai Jones and Usman Garuba, (not necessarily in that order).

That’s a pretty solid list, I wouldn’t complain about any of those guys. If Giddey was taken at 7 a guy potentially could fall to us too. I do think that if spurs were to draft Giddey he wouldn’t be a PG with us, he’d just be another wing creator like Demar is

[Dejounte]

Ahh the draft can't come soon enough

[PhantomDashCam]

Yeah, I think that’s a solid list of likely candidates. I don’t see Giddey, either. They are all in on Dejounte for whatever reason.

Dejounte took his game to a new level last season. He exceeded my expectations in every way possible. With Demar out of the lineup (likely), and if you believe he comes back with an improved 3 ball (I do but I can understand the doubts), I think he could leap into the top 10 PG conversation next season.

From the recent D. White interview on basketballnews.com:

https://www.basketballnews.com/stories/nba-san-antonio-spurs-derrick-white-dejounte-murray-gregg-popovich-colorado-buffaloes


This season, according to NBA.com, the Spurs have scored 114.2 points per 100 possessions with White and Murray on the floor together (https://go.nba.com/3s26), just behind White and DeMar DeRozan as the Spurs’ top offensive duo (min. 650 minutes). In the 266 minutes without either Murray or White on the floor (in games they’ve played), San Antonio has a net rating of negative-25.7 (https://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612759&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=1628401,1627749&OnlyCommonGames=true), per PBP Stats. Needless to say, they’re kind of important to the team’s success, which is why White feels so grateful to be considered a cornerstone with Murray.
“He's special. He's able to do a lot of different things on the court and he's gotten better each and every year that he's played,” White said of Murray. “That hard work and just wanting to be great. We just get along well off the court, and it makes it easy on the court.”

[PhantomDashCam]

Ahh the draft can't come soon enough

Can’t wait. Excited for the Combine (especially the scrimmages) too.

Your top 3 atm for Spurs? Moody, Wagner and Giddey?

[Dejounte]

Can’t wait. Excited for the Combine (especially the scrimmages) too.

Your top 3 atm for Spurs? Moody, Wagner and Giddey?

Yezzir

Any of those three and I'm a happy camper

Honestly, the Spurs have done so well with drafting players that even if they draft someone I don't like, I'll get over it.

But if I forget about who my favorites are and if I was to make an educated guess (based off previous selections and what comes out of Wright's/ Pop's/ RC's mouths, there's a pattern in there somewhere), then my Sherlock Holmes hat deduces that it's going to be Wagner.

It just fits in line with everything we've seen and heard.

Character/ over himself - per Wright
3-level scorer - per Wright
International - per Spurs' history
Emphasis on defense - per last three years

I'm sure there are more indicators or clues...

Obviously, Wagner has to be there at #12 for it to be him.

Outside of Wagner, I think it'll be Giddey before Moody. Or even Sengun before Moody.

IMO, the prospect's character has to be REALLY sharp. I think the Spurs' preferences have really tilted that way and it's become VERY important to them for obvious reasons. That's why it's very difficult for me to envision Jalen Johnson being drafted by the Spurs. Or Greg Brown. Or Ziaire... nothing wrong with his conduct, but I think he's the opposite of strong-willed right now due to no fault of his own (a few people close to Ziaire passed away).

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/qa61lfMpHwc

My long-awaited video is here

https://media.tenor.com/images/bf8370b395c96c7fb5ace560cfcc9524/tenor.gif

[Cardinal]

Great video! Lots to digest. Wagner remains one of my favorite prospects for where the Spurs are likely to be picking. One thing that really stands out immediately though is how rarely he goes left. And when he does, it’s often a shaky experience. He really needs to improve his handle.

[PhantomDashCam]

Great video! Lots to digest. Wagner remains one of my favorite prospects for where the Spurs are likely to be picking. One thing that really stands out immediately though is how rarely he goes left. And when he does, it’s often a shaky experience. He really needs to improve his handle.
https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/blob:https://www.spurstalk.com/0f13c798-24ce-4882-814b-82816d1b66fd
https://media1.tenor.com/images/44ccbb0a4ddac55eef3f9dd973948719/tenor.gif?itemid=8603047

:lol J/K Wagner fans.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1401180224264368137

https://twitter.com/HoopsDistillery/status/1401176837661790209





NBA Big Board
(6/3)
Athletic
(6/3)
B/R
(5/27)


Cade
Cunningham
Cade
Cunningham
Cade
Cunningham


Evan
Mobley
Jalen
Suggs
Jalen
Green


Jalen
Green
Evan
Mobley
Evan
Mobley


Jalen
Suggs
Jalen
Green
Jalen
Suggs


Jonathan
Kuminga
Jonathan
Kuminga
Jonathan
Kuminga


Scottie
Barnes
Scottie
Barnes
Jalen
Johnson


Davion
Mitchell
Davion
Mitchell
Keon
Johnson


Keon
Johnson
Alperen
Sengun
Scottie
Barnes


Franz
Wagner
James
Bouknight
Franz
Wagner


Josh
Giddey
Josh
Giddey
Josh
Giddey


Jalen
Johnson
Moses
Moody
Moses
Moody


Alperen
Sengun
Franz
Wagner
Isaiah
Jackson


Moses
Moody
Kai
Jones
Alperen
Sengun


Usman
Garuba
Chris
Duarte
Tre
Mann


Corey
Kispert
Corey
Kispert
James
Bouknight


Jared
Butler
Ziaire
Williams
Aaron
Henry


Kai
Jones
Keon
Johnson
Davion
Mitchell


James
Bouknight
Ayo
Donunmu
Miles
McBride


Ziaire
Williams
Usman
Garuba
Jared
Butler


Sharife
Cooper
Jalen
Johnson
Jaden
Springer


Isaiah
Jackson
Isaiah
Jackson
Corey
Kispert


Chris
Duarte
Jaden
Springer
Kai
Jones


Tre
Mann
Sharife
Cooper
Usman
Garuba


Cameron
Thomas
Kessler
Edwards
Chris
Duarte


Greg
Brown
Roko
Prkacin
Day'Ron
Sharpe


Jaden
Springer
Trey
Murphy
Sharife
Cooper


Trey
Murphy
Greg
Brown
Josh
Christopher


Johnny
Juzang
Cam
Thomas
Kessler
Edwards


Ayo
Donunmu
Jeremiah
Robinson-Earl
Cameron
Thomas


Rokas
Jokubaitis
Day'Ron
Sharpe
Roko
Prkacin

[R. DeMurre]

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1401180224264368137

https://twitter.com/HoopsDistillery/status/1401176837661790209





NBA Big Board
(6/3)
Athletic
(6/3)
B/R
(5/27)


Cade
Cunningham
Cade
Cunningham
Cade
Cunningham


Evan
Mobley
Jalen
Suggs
Jalen
Green


Jalen
Green
Evan
Mobley
Evan
Mobley


Jalen
Suggs
Jalen
Green
Jalen
Suggs


Jonathan
Kuminga
Jonathan
Kuminga
Jonathan
Kuminga


Scottie
Barnes
Scottie
Barnes
Jalen
Johnson


Davion
Mitchell
Davion
Mitchell
Keon
Johnson


Keon
Johnson
Alperen
Sengun
Scottie
Barnes


Franz
Wagner
James
Bouknight
Franz
Wagner


Josh
Giddey
Josh
Giddey
Josh
Giddey


Jalen
Johnson
Moses
Moody
Moses
Moody


Alperen
Sengun
Franz
Wagner
Isaiah
Jackson


Moses
Moody
Kai
Jones
Alperen
Sengun


Usman
Garuba
Chris
Duarte
Tre
Mann


Corey
Kispert
Corey
Kispert
James
Bouknight


Jared
Butler
Ziaire
Williams
Aaron
Henry


Kai
Jones
Keon
Johnson
Davion
Mitchell


James
Bouknight
Ayo
Donunmu
Miles
McBride


Ziaire
Williams
Usman
Garuba
Jared
Butler


Sharife
Cooper
Jalen
Johnson
Jaden
Springer


Isaiah
Jackson
Isaiah
Jackson
Corey
Kispert


Chris
Duarte
Jaden
Springer
Kai
Jones


Tre
Mann
Sharife
Cooper
Usman
Garuba


Cameron
Thomas
Kessler
Edwards
Chris
Duarte


Greg
Brown
Roko
Prkacin
Day'Ron
Sharpe


Jaden
Springer
Trey
Murphy
Sharife
Cooper


Trey
Murphy
Greg
Brown
Josh
Christopher


Johnny
Juzang
Cam
Thomas
Kessler
Edwards


Ayo
Donunmu
Jeremiah
Robinson-Earl
Cameron
Thomas


Rokas
Jokubaitis
Day'Ron
Sharpe
Roko
Prkacin





Wow.... Look at the difference between picking 12th and 15th! Wagner, Moody, Sengun still possibly available at 12, but almost all of those favs of Spurstalk gone at 15.

[Cardinal]

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1401180224264368137



Oh cool that's the page basketball gym, I used to play club basketball on that court. Weird to see him there.

His shooting form looks workable to me if he puts in the time with good development staff. I know he didn't shoot a great percentage in college but the shot isn't broken.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1401215007396810754

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1401194045150404613

[PrimeMinister]

Oh cool that's the page basketball gym, I used to play club basketball on that court. Weird to see him there.

His shooting form looks workable to me if he puts in the time with good development staff. I know he didn't shoot a great percentage in college but the shot isn't broken.

scottie is gonna be goooooooood

[exstatic]

scottie is gonna be goooooooood

I have my doubts. He’s not much of a scorer, and if you’re not a threat, they’ll just play off you, and cut your playmaking off at the legs. His 3pt shooting sucks, and his FT shooting is even worse. This guy is going to cost some GM his job.

[duncan2150]

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1401215007396810754

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1401194045150404613


Edwards is a nice sleeper in this draft, could be a good 2nd round pick if he's there.

[exstatic]

Edwards is a nice sleeper in this draft, could be a good 2nd round pick if he's there.

I like Kessler Edwards and Trey Murphy as size/shooting combo options in the second. I prefer Murphy a bit more, but he’s popping into the late first in some mocks.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/theauburnwire/status/1401252596422152197

https://twitter.com/MaxFeldman6/status/1401256486270078976

[The Truth #6]

I have my doubts. He’s not much of a scorer, and if you’re not a threat, they’ll just play off you, and cut your playmaking off at the legs. His 3pt shooting sucks, and his FT shooting is even worse. This guy is going to cost some GM his job.

That description could somewhat apply to Giddey as well, which is my concern. Still like him though.

[exstatic]

That description could somewhat apply to Giddey as well, which is my concern. Still like him though.

I’m not that high on Giddey, either. Just look at last year’s version in Deni Avdija. He looked pretty awful for the Wizards.

[bluebellmaniac]

20 days until the Lottery

57 days until the Draft

17 days until the Lottery


54 days until the Draft

[rjv]

I’m not that high on Giddey, either. Just look at last year’s version in Deni Avdija. He looked pretty awful for the Wizards.

I didn't think Avdija looked all that bad considering he had no summer league or training camp.

[Mr. Body]

I didn't think Avdija looked all that bad considering he had no summer league or training camp.

Way too soon to tell. Also on a fucked up team where Westbrook has the ball all the time.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/rUaoXtXPpIQ

So which 2021 prospect will have a hush agreement with the Spurs and pull off a fake “concerning” video in order to hurt his draft stock intentionally? It’s something I’ll be keeping an eye on.

Before Vassell was drafted, he said he didn’t work out for the Spurs. After he was drafted, he admitted he did.

[Dejounte]

Minor shake-up on my draft board:

I can’t help but shake the feeling that Bouknight has real star potential. While I love Moody’s skillset and physical profile, I’m leaning slightly towards Bouk now because I see a sort of more immediate rise to stardom for him. Moody will be good, but it may take a few years to have a breakthrough, if he even has that in him. I love the takeover mentality that Bouk has, and Moody might be lacking in that area. But again, it may be that he simply wanted to play the role he was asked to do by his coach and something like that shouldn’t be seen as a negative. So for now, Bouk is slightly ahead for me for the time being. It’s really a toss up between these two.

[rjv]

I like Kessler Edwards and Trey Murphy as size/shooting combo options in the second. I prefer Murphy a bit more, but he’s popping into the late first in some mocks.

I wonder what Murphy is waiting for. Maybe seeing if he moves into the 1st round?

[cd021]

First time I've any seen Sengun. Really skilled offensive big. Good hands, finishes everything with a dunk. Good footwork, looks very comfortable dribbling and handling the ball.

[Mnky]

Minor shake-up on my draft board:

I can’t help but shake the feeling that Bouknight has real star potential. While I love Moody’s skillset and physical profile, I’m leaning slightly towards Bouk now because I see a sort of more immediate rise to stardom for him. Moody will be good, but it may take a few years to have a breakthrough, if he even has that in him. I love the takeover mentality that Bouk has, and Moody might be lacking in that area. But again, it may be that he simply wanted to play the role he was asked to do by his coach and something like that shouldn’t be seen as a negative. So for now, Bouk is slightly ahead for me for the time being. It’s really a toss up between these two.

Feel like Moody is much more NBA ready than bouk at the moment. Moody has that rare trait of making the game look slower/easy. He's still a teenager as well which says a lot. Bouk is wildly irratic. He's basically lonnie walker. When it works, he looks like he could be a star but half the time you're wondering what was he thinking?

I like the kid, he definitely has a ton of potential. It's mostly in the potential area right now though.

I'd stay with Moody over Bouk.


Wagner, Moody, and Giddey are fun prospects to roll the dice on. It'll be fun watching each one play their first year in the league.

[Mnky]

First time I've any seen Sengun. Really skilled offensive big. Good hands, finishes everything with a dunk. Good footwork, looks very comfortable dribbling and handling the ball.

Love the kids game and old school aggressive mentality. Above average footwork and good understanding of defensive assignments. His inside game on offense and defense are great.

If the kid was a good athlete, he would likely be top 5-10 area. Unfortunately not a great athlete and most of his competition was worse. Hard to get a read on how that translates to the Bigs of the NBA which is dominated by quickness and explosiveness. He's young and could easily develop that body of his. Would love him as a prospect but not in The lottery range.

[exstatic]

I wonder what Murphy is waiting for. Maybe seeing if he moves into the 1st round?

Waiting for? Waiting for what? He has declared for the draft.

[exstatic]

Love the kids game and old school aggressive mentality. Above average footwork and good understanding of defensive assignments. His inside game on offense and defense are great.

If the kid was a good athlete, he would likely be top 5-10 area. Unfortunately not a great athlete and most of his competition was worse. Hard to get a read on how that translates to the Bigs of the NBA which is dominated by quickness and explosiveness. He's young and could easily develop that body of his. Would love him as a prospect but not in The lottery range.

If you have the complete skill set, you don’t have to be a top flight athlete. Doncic probably couldn’t jump over a phone book.

If he were a top flight athlete on top of those skills, he wouldn’t be 5-10, he’d be top 3.

[exstatic]

I didn't think Avdija looked all that bad considering he had no summer league or training camp.

He played 23 minutes, scored 6 points, grabbed 5 boards, and dished about 1 assist. His shooting line was .417/.315/.644.

[mo7888]

Minor shake-up on my draft board:

I can’t help but shake the feeling that Bouknight has real star potential. While I love Moody’s skillset and physical profile, I’m leaning slightly towards Bouk now because I see a sort of more immediate rise to stardom for him. Moody will be good, but it may take a few years to have a breakthrough, if he even has that in him. I love the takeover mentality that Bouk has, and Moody might be lacking in that area. But again, it may be that he simply wanted to play the role he was asked to do by his coach and something like that shouldn’t be seen as a negative. So for now, Bouk is slightly ahead for me for the time being. It’s really a toss up between these two.

I'm still pretty high on Moody's longer-term future... My board has changed a bit to but, mostly in the middle to lower part of the 1st rd.

1. Cade Cunningham
2. Jonathan Kuminga
3. Evan Mobley
4. Jalen Green
5. Jalen Suggs
6. Franz Wagner
7. Moses Moody
8. Corey Kispert
9. Jalen Johnson
10. Scottie Barnes
11. Keon Johnson
12. Alperen Sengun
13. Jared Butler
14. James Bouknight
15. Josh Giddey
16. Tre Mann
17. Davion Mitchell
18. Sharife Cooper
19. Kai Jones
20. Usman Garuba
21. Zaire Williams
22. Jaden Springer
23. Ayo Dosunmu
24. Isaiah Jackson
25. Chris Duarte
26. Trey Murphy
27. Roko Prkacin
28. Miles McBride
29. Cameron Thomas
30. Bj Boston

[rjv]

He played 23 minutes, scored 6 points, grabbed 5 boards, and dished about 1 assist. His shooting line was .417/.315/.644.

Like I said. I saw him play a few games. I don't think he looked all that bad. He showed moments. Wizards were a mess at that time. I'm not saying he was a steal. I'm not saying he's a bust.

[exstatic]

Like I said. I saw him play a few games. I don't think he looked all that bad. He showed moments. Wizards were a mess at that time. I'm not saying he was a steal. I'm not saying he's a bust.

Everybody in the NBA has moments. Hell, Bryn Forbes even has moments.

Even as a rookie, you kind of hope for more from a top 10 pick. His shooting was pretty much as expected: abysmal.

[rjv]

Everybody in the NBA has moments. Hell, Bryn Forbes even has moments.

Even as a rookie, you kind of hope for more from a top 10 pick. His shooting was pretty much as expected: abysmal.

Well, I'm not here to start a discourse on Avdija.

[exstatic]

Well, I'm not here to start a discourse on Avdija.

Except, that’s exactly what you did. I simply comped him to Gidney, and you jumped right in. :lol

[Mr. Body]

Like I said. I saw him play a few games. I don't think he looked all that bad. He showed moments. Wizards were a mess at that time. I'm not saying he was a steal. I'm not saying he's a bust.

Yeah, you're pretty much correct. Don't worry about it.

[The Truth #6]

Bouknight is interesting. Beyond the legal issue, I’m curious about his fit. If he actually is a budding star then obviously go with it. But can he be a star without a 3 point shot?

He’s great attacking but does seem to have too much midrange in his game, which is probably the biggest concern I have. Also, would he fit with the way rookies are developed here? My intuition tells me he wouldn’t like it, but who knows? The Derek Anderson comp may be too fitting.

[Mr. Body]

Bouknight is interesting. Beyond the legal issue, I’m curious about his fit. If he actually is a budding star then obviously go with it. But can he be a star without a 3 point shot?

He’s great attacking but does seem to have too much midrange in his game, which is probably the biggest concern I have. Also, would he fit with the way rookies are developed here? My intuition tells me he wouldn’t like it, but who knows? The Derek Anderson comp may be too fitting.

Problem, too, is he has extreme tunnel vision. Once he goes into moves, it's him and the other team, that's it.

[exstatic]

Bouknight is interesting. Beyond the legal issue, I’m curious about his fit. If he actually is a budding star then obviously go with it. But can he be a star without a 3 point shot?

He’s great attacking but does seem to have too much midrange in his game, which is probably the biggest concern I have. Also, would he fit with the way rookies are developed here? My intuition tells me he wouldn’t like it, but who knows? The Derek Anderson comp may be too fitting.

Bouknight didn’t shoot well from outside, but his usage rate was huge, 31.6%, meaning he probably wasn’t selective. TaT projects him to shoot 35.6% in the NBA, probably because he won’t have to shoulder most of the load like he did at UCONN.

[PhantomDashCam]

Problem, too, is he has extreme tunnel vision. Once he goes into moves, it's him and the other team, that's it.

Bouk, to me, is one of those guys you want to avoid at all costs.

He’s like a hybrid of DDR (without the passing) and second half of the season Patty Mills (consistent chucker, no 3).
He thrives off taking contested 2s and loves to make the iso plays.

After watching LMA and DDR for the last few seasons, I would be happy if someone else buys into his game.

Can you teach guys to pass, make the solid play at 21 years old?

[Dejounte]

Team needs players who can create shots and y’all are having reservations about someone who actually has the capability to do that? I’m not completely on the Bouk boat but some of y’all either have poor memory of the team’s weaknesses or are balking at any sign of weaknesses from a prospect. Every prospect is going to have to require a leap of faith from you on what they can and can’t do. It boggles my mind that it’s an easier leap of faith for some people to believe Kai will develop a shot over Bouk becoming less selfish. Somehow Tony and Kawhi are the go-to examples for shooting improvement when we have DJ and Lonnie (and countless others in the league) showing us that it isn’t that easy.

Bouk is as close as it gets to someone who can actually make a bucket outside of the top 6.

[Mr. Body]

Team needs players who can create shots and y’all are having reservations about someone who actually has the capability to do that?

Yes.

[PhantomDashCam]

Team needs players who can create shots and y’all are having reservations about someone who actually has the capability to do that? I’m not completely on the Bouk boat but some of y’all either have poor memory of the team’s weaknesses or are balking at any sign of weaknesses from a prospect. Every prospect is going to have to require a leap of faith from you on what they can and can’t do. It boggles my mind that it’s an easier leap of faith for some people to believe Kai will develop a shot over Bouk becoming less selfish. Somehow Tony and Kawhi are the go-to examples for shooting improvement when we have DJ and Lonnie (and countless others in the league) showing us that it isn’t that easy.

Bouk is as close as it gets to someone who can actually make a bucket outside of the top 6.

I've always been about BPA with the draft and taking a holistic approach to each and every prospect.
My concerns with Bouk is that he hunts out the difficult shot and from mid range too.

He has already dealt with a torn meniscus (sustained in his teens) and an elbow injury that required surgery and had him missing a month of action.
One scout even suggested, "he wasn't the same player when he returned..." (in Feb.)

You're right, shot creation is a problem with this team, but so is shot taking.
Do we want a guy who can create his own shot in the mid range, freezes out teammates and has questions on his ability to hit a consistent 3 ball?

He could become an elite scorer, or he could become an undersized Andrew Wiggins.

For all of the warts in Kai Jones game (and there are plenty), he will not be expected (at least initially) to create high % attempts for his teammates.

His P'nR numbers from memory were pretty ordinary. Can you simplify Bouknight's role initially to be a C&S threat? I don't know. He seems awfully streaky and selfish to me.

[PhantomDashCam]

A long way from the consistent reality but this sequence of play (on O and D) would have to give even the staunchest Kai Jones critic goosebumps...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChVj4uE0u7A

[Dejounte]

My concerns with Bouk is that he hunts out the difficult shot and from mid range too.



You're right, shot creation is a problem with this team, but so is shot taking.
Do we want a guy who can create his own shot in the mid range, freezes out teammates and has questions on his ability to hit a consistent 3 ball?

It's preposterous to me that just because the Spurs are bad at 3-point shooting, that you now have a distorted view of mid-range shooting as if it's a negative thing. Mid-range shots have value. Nephew, PG, Doncic all have taken big shots in the mid-range during this year's playoffs. In fact, it can be argued that when either team got cold, their mid-range game saved them. The pace in the playoffs slow way down, and those ISO's you see that lead to mid-range shots often make or break the team. The league is not all about 3-point shooting. This year's playoffs is proof of that.




His P'nR numbers from memory were pretty ordinary. Can you simplify Bouknight's role initially to be a C&S threat? I don't know. He seems awfully streaky and selfish to me.

A big fat fucking yes. If he gets drafted by the Spurs, they would have done their due diligence on his willingness to buy in.

[Dejounte]

A long way from the consistent reality but this sequence of play (on O and D) would have to give even the staunchest Kai Jones critic goosebumps...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChVj4uE0u7A

I'm not as anti-Kai as you think but these flash in the pan type plays make me yawn. I've followed the draft for many years extensively and there are players like Kai every year. During last year's draft process, I was low on Poku and gradually began to see his worth as positive. At least with Poku, he had a large sample size of shooting and a more natural instinct on when to take them. His form was always spot-on: knees didn't bend irregularly, elbow wasn't all the way out. If you bothered to look at Kai's form, you can see that it will take him years to get to even a bare minimum average shooter. That's even IF the NBA team that drafts plays him in that role. I highly suspect he will be used exclusively as a rim running big. His skills on the perimeter are not good enough for teams to rely on him to do that for very long (unless they want to get fired), that they'll immediately put him back inside the paint. It's exactly what happened with Nicholas Claxton & Precious Achiuwa.

[PhantomDashCam]

It's preposterous to me that just because the Spurs are bad at 3-point shooting, that you now have a distorted view of mid-range shooting as if it's a negative thing. Mid-range shots have value. Nephew, PG, Doncic all have taken big shots in the mid-range. In fact, it can be argued that when either team got cold, their mid-range game saved them. The pace in the playoffs slow way down, and those ISO's you see that lead to mid-range shots often make or break the team. The league is not all about 3-point shooting. This year's playoffs is proof of that.



A big fat fucking yes. If he gets drafted by the Spurs, they would have done their due diligence on his willingness to buy in.

Dejounte, what's preposterous is not understanding the difference between "hunting" for a mid range two and taking what the defense gives you.

Not all about the 3s, I'm about a balance like most things in life.

The mid range augments the dynamic scoring of the those you mentioned and it's the threat of
outside shooting that opens it up for them, making the game easier for all.

[Dejounte]

Dejounte, what's preposterous is not understanding the difference between "hunting" for a mid range two and taking what the defense gives you.

Not all about the 3s, I'm about a balance like most things in life.

The mid range augments the dynamic scoring of the those you mentioned and it's the threat of
outside shooting that opens it up for them, making the game easier for all.

It's a myth that most of Bouk's shots are mid-range twos.

126 attempts near the rim
77 attempts mid-range
72 attempts 3 point shots

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&year=2020&kw=james%20bouknight&start=20191101&end=20200501

So let's try again because this is a clear misconception you have about Bouknight.

[The Truth #6]

The team has lots of needs. Defense. Outside shooting. Passing. Feel for the game. I don’t see 1-1 scoring as the biggest need, perhaps because some of the other needs are more glaring.

I don’t see Bouknight making other players better, which means he’d have to be really awesome. If I’m rolling the dice on a guard it’s Giddey to hopefully bring out the best in our other players.

[Dejounte]

It's a myth that most of Bouk's shots are mid-range twos.

126 attempts near the rim
77 attempts mid-range
72 attempts 3 point shots

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&year=2020&kw=james%20bouknight&start=20191101&end=20200501

So let's try again because this is a clear misconception you have about Bouknight.

Numbers above were actually from 2020.

Here are 2021:

79 attempts near the rim
65 attempts mid-range
75 attempts 3 point shots

Balance.

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&year=2021&kw=james%20bouknight&start=20201101&end=20210501

[Dejounte]

Keon Johnson is the one I've repeatedly said (in this thread) was in love with mid-range 2's. I've only now checked his attempts, and they match up with what I've watched extensively:

93 attempts near the rim
106 mid-range
48 shots from 3

Perhaps you confused Bouknight with Keon.

[PhantomDashCam]

Keon Johnson is the one I've repeatedly said (in this thread) was in love with mid-range 2's. I've only now checked his attempts, and they match up with what I've watched extensively:

93 attempts near the rim
106 mid-range
48 shots from 3

Perhaps you confused Bouknight with Keon.

Keon played 27 games, Bouknight 15.

Based on your stats btw:

Keon 3.9 midranges a game, Bouknight 4.3 and you're saying Keon takes a lot of mid range twos...

[Dejounte]

Keon played 27 games, Bouknight 15.

Based on your stats btw:

Keon 3.9 midranges a game, Bouknight 4.3 and your saying Keon takes a lot of mid range twos...

Like exstatic (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20) said, Bouk had an abnormally high usage. Of course he would have more mid-range twos, he took more shots overall.


Go further and do the other shot types:

Keon
3.4 near the rim per game
3.9 mid-range per game
1.8 3's per game

Bouknight
5.3 near the rim per game
4.3 mid-range per game
5 3's per game


Don't leave that out.

[PhantomDashCam]

Like exstatic (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=20) said, Bouk had an abnormally high usage. Of course he would have more mid-range twos, he took more shots overall.


Go further and do the other shot types:

Keon
3.4 near the rim per game
3.9 mid-range per game
1.8 3's per game

Bouknight
5.3 near the rim per game
4.3 mid-range per game
5 3's per game


Don't leave that out.

FWIW, not a big fan of either prospect.

Bouknight for me is cleary the better shooter/scorer of the 2, at least right now.
But there is a big difference between playing within yourself because of your Offensive limitations and seeking out the difficult play/shot because you get to score/clown on your opponent.

Maybe it's unfair to put Bouk in that latter category (and if the Spurs don't see that as an issue, I'm onboard) but those guys don't tend to make winning/simple basketball plays consistently when the bulk of the game is being decided.

They may hit a game winner every now and then because of their moxy/gusto but what happened in the first 47 minutes leading up to it?
Isn't that the thing we accuse DDR of doing on the regular?

That's my reticence.

Streaky, tough shot hunters/makers who aren't overly efficient, are below average/shy away from 3s and who pound the air out of the ball.

[rjv]

Yeah, you're pretty much correct. Don't worry about it.

Yeah. Didn't think a simple comment that was essentially an opinion would be such a trigger. 🙄

[rankingtear]

I think Chad Ford has the most intel based Big Board , it is my understanding that he really does not watch film that much so his board is not influenced by personal opinion.

He thinks Barnes, Wagner, Mitchell, Keon is a top 10 lock.

Next tier is J. Johnson, Giddie, Sengun, Moody, Garuba, Kispert.

My prediction

SAC - J. Johnson
NOP - Moody
CHA - Sengun

Giddie , Garuba and Kispert available for Spurs. Both Giddie and Garuba are good prospects Giddie has the ceiling of the ideal playoff initiator and Garuba as the ideal versatile playoff defender.

Although Kispert is the kind of player spurs are always trying to get in free agency Bojan/Morris.

[Mr. Body]

I feel like Wagner's going to fall out of the top 10. GMs are looking for stars and he doesn't project to be one, and lottery GMs are generally trying to save their jobs by going flashy.

[mo7888]

I think Chad Ford has the most intel based Big Board , it is my understanding that he really does not watch film that much so his board is not influenced by personal opinion.

He thinks Barnes, Wagner, Mitchell, Keon is a top 10 lock.

Next tier is J. Johnson, Giddie, Sengun, Moody, Garuba, Kispert.

My prediction

SAC - J. Johnson
NOP - Moody
CHA - Sengun

Giddie , Garuba and Kispert available for Spurs. Both Giddie and Garuba are good prospects Giddie has the ceiling of the ideal playoff initiator and Garuba as the ideal versatile playoff defender.

Although Kispert is the kind of player spurs are always trying to get in free agency Bojan/Morris.

Is Chad's BB tier based or Intel based these days? I knew it used to be Intel based when he was at espn but I wasn't sure now that he's behind his own private pay wall.

Also, I agree with Mr. Body on Wagner... I think he falls because he's not flashy and some GM's think he won't be a star. (I think those GM's are wrong but that bodes well for the Spurs).

[dbestpro]

Spurs will most likely pass on Wagner for a 6-4 shooting guard.

[Dex]

Spurs will most likely pass on Wagner for a 6-4 shooting guard.

:lol

:depressed

[Atl Spur]

I would like to grab a young athletic forward/center. The Jackson kid looks nice.

[exstatic]

I would like to grab a young athletic forward/center. The Jackson kid looks nice.

Limited ceiling. He’s a rim runner/shot blocker, nothing more. Some team will draft him too high, I just hope it’s not us.

[R. DeMurre]

Wagner falling a little because he's not flashy is a scenario I can see happening, although in that same vein it might be Kispert too.

I'd be happy with the less-than-dramatic moves of adding two Germans in the off season: Wagner through the draft and Isaac Bonga as a low risk cheap free agent.

[The Truth #6]

Second Round Pick.



I like Jeremiah Earl Robinson as a quality well rounded 4 out of Villanova if he’s around.

Julian Champaigne from St. John’s for shooting and some upside as a scorer.

Vrenz for shooting and passing as a mobile forward.

Anyone have their favorites?

[mo7888]

Second Round Pick.



I like Jeremiah Earl Robinson as a quality well rounded 4 out of Villanova if he’s around.

Julian Champaigne from St. John’s for shooting and some upside as a scorer.

Vrenz for shooting and passing as a mobile forward.

Anyone have their favorites?

I'm hoping Trey Murphy drops and we can grab him...

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

Spurs will most likely pass on Wagner for a 6-4 shooting guard.

That we'll play at the 4.

[The Truth #6]

^ Ha. Well, he can’t shoot from the outside so they have to play him at the 4!

[Russ]

I’m not that high on Giddey, either. Just look at last year’s version in Deni Avdija. He looked pretty awful for the Wizards.

It seems a bit early to call Avdija a bust -- he looked pretty good before suffering a bad season-ending injury.

Sure wish the Spurs had him going forward.

153C7dROPzQ

[Thomas82]

Second Round Pick.



I like Jeremiah Earl Robinson as a quality well rounded 4 out of Villanova if he’s around.

Julian Champaigne from St. John’s for shooting and some upside as a scorer.

Vrenz for shooting and passing as a mobile forward.

Anyone have their favorites?

I'm hoping for Ibou Dianko Badji myself.

[Atl Spur]

Limited ceiling. He’s a rim runner/shot blocker, nothing more. Some team will draft him too high, I just hope it’s not us.

Why limited? He has a decent shot, footwork and handle.

[The Truth #6]

I’ve seen Badji, Bassey, and Queta linked to us in the second round. I don’t see center as our most pressing issue. It’s not like we’re just now having to move on from LMA. I’d love to find someone who can shoot from the outside, at any position other than point guard, and has some other potential skill, like passing, defense, isn’t a ball hog, whatever.

[TheGreatYacht]

Jalen Johnson or Moody, don't care about any other scrub in that range.

Buford and Wrong should resign on the spot if they waste #12 on a journeymen like Kispert

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1401978312243617820

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1401982097414246401

[exstatic]

Why limited? He has a decent shot, footwork and handle.

The problem with evaluating draft talent is assuming that an ability at one level will transfer upwards to the next level. The only two that are sure fire uptransfers are rebounding and 3 point shooting. That’s it. Everything else is a crapshoot, including playmaking.

Don’t you think that if talent evaluators thought those abilities would transfer that he’d be a top 5 pick?

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/chowster24/status/1401992773121712128

https://twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/1401902219583234056

[The Truth #6]

I'm hoping Trey Murphy drops and we can grab him...

Yeah, that would be great, too, if he lasts.

[The Truth #6]

JT Thor...this is an interesting wildcard. I think I read that he was projected to be a lottery pick next year… Very curious to see where he starts ending up on the boards.

https://phenomhoopreport.com/nba-draft-profile-auburns-jt-thor/

Edit: without being able to see what his weaknesses are, he looks, perhaps, like exactly what we are looking for: solid 3 point shooter, great form, can likely guard either forward position, great athleticism, crazy wingspan, still developing, potential to be a solid defender.

Interesting.

[PhantomDashCam]

JT Thor...this is an interesting wildcard. I think I read that he was projected to be a lottery pick next year… Very curious to see where he starts ending up on the boards.

https://phenomhoopreport.com/nba-draft-profile-auburns-jt-thor/

Edit: without being able to see what his weaknesses are, he looks, perhaps, like exactly what we are looking for: solid 3 point shooter, great form, can likely guard either forward position, great athleticism, crazy wingspan, still developing, potential to be a solid defender.

Interesting.


It really is. To sign with an agent as well after not being listed in many first round mocks (or at all sometimes).

A first round promise perhaps? Houston have 2 picks back to back at 23, 24...

[PhantomDashCam]

Speaking of first round promises...

https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/1402012702889885696?s=20

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/751475466645565440/KEnhZagn_normal.jpg
Sam Vecenie (https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie)Sam (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=7024)_Vecenie
1h (https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/1402012702889885696)
Oregon’s Chris Duarte declined his 2021 NBA Draft Combine invite, fueling talk among teams that the combo guard could have a first-round promise, per sources.

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/743297685302632451/pSX-RERB_normal.jpg
Jonathan Givony @DraftExpress
(https://twitter.com/DraftExpress) 1h (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1402018713877024768)
Source: the NBA informed teams in a memo today that Rutgers' Ron Harper Jr. and Dayton's Ibi Watson have been added to the NBA Draft early-entry list, bringing the final tally to 355 players.


https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/743297685302632451/pSX-RERB_normal.jpg
Jonathan Givony @DraftExpress
(https://twitter.com/DraftExpress) 2d (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1401275582932041731)
Invites for the NBA Combine and G League Elite Camp are being emailed out to player and agents.

Jonathan Givony @DraftExpress
(https://twitter.com/DraftExpress)

Every NBA team submitted votes for 70 players for the NBA Combine and G League Elite Camp today. Around 100 players will be invited after the tally count to participate in one of the two camps. With the Combine dates pushed back a month, expect quite a few int'l players to attend

[Atl Spur]

The problem with evaluating draft talent is assuming that an ability at one level will transfer upwards to the next level. The only two that are sure fire uptransfers are rebounding and 3 point shooting. That’s it. Everything else is a crapshoot, including playmaking.

Don’t you think that if talent evaluators thought those abilities would transfer that he’d be a top 5 pick?

Bro I’m not a scout or profess to be one but his play type appears transferrable. What range do you suspect he’ll go in?

[The Truth #6]

It really is. To sign with an agent as well after not being listed in many first round mocks (or at all sometimes).

A first round promise perhaps? Houston have 2 picks back to back at 23, 24...

That’s a good prediction. Man, if he’s still available for our second pick, seems like he’d be hard to turn down. He’s projected as a big, but doesn’t have that “neanderthal” vibe like a lot of second round bigs. He seems pretty fluid and moves like a smaller player. 74% free throws sounds boring but very promising as for his shooting potential in the NBA. There aren’t a lot of videos on him so I’m drinking the Kool aid for the moment.

Edit: He was born in Alaska...what? Spurs love that sort of atypical life experience.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/1402052831159402502

[mo7888]

Speaking of first round promises...

https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/1402012702889885696?s=20

That's interesting...

[PhantomDashCam]

https://twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/1402052831159402502

Those last 30 seconds...that range, effortless shooter.

Lots of question marks defensively, size wise and can he manipulate defenses with the pass on Offense; but that elite shot...

If you put together a Summer League team of:
Tre Jones, Tre Mann, Devin Vassell, Luka Samanic (Hope he attends) and 2nd round/Undrafted selection at the 5 (Ariel Hukporti?),
that team in 4 years; could all be Spurs starters (if things fall there way).

[Prime BEEF]

Speaking of first round promises...

https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/1402012702889885696?s=20
Think he’ll be a solid player for whoever picks him

[Thomas82]

I’ve seen Badji, Bassey, and Queta linked to us in the second round. I don’t see center as our most pressing issue. It’s not like we’re just now having to move on from LMA. I’d love to find someone who can shoot from the outside, at any position other than point guard, and has some other potential skill, like passing, defense, isn’t a ball hog, whatever.

I would love Badji in the 2nd round. He would be a huge steal for us.

[The Truth #6]

I would love Badji in the 2nd round. He would be a huge steal for us.

I see the appeal, for sure. He’s a freak of nature.

[rjv]

Those last 30 seconds...that range, effortless shooter.

Lots of question marks defensively, size wise and can he manipulate defenses with the pass on Offense; but that elite shot...

If you put together a Summer League team of:
Tre Jones, Tre Mann, Devin Vassell, Luka Samanic (Hope he attends) and 2nd round/Undrafted selection at the 5 (Ariel Hukporti?),
that team in 4 years; could all be Spurs starters (if things fall there way).

i've been trying to find out whether or not luka has any commitment to play with the croatian national team or not. that'd be the only thing i can think of that would prevent him from being in the summer league.

[PhantomDashCam]

Take a leap with me if you will:

With the Pangos All-American camp concluding, couldn't help but wonder who have been some of the dominant players over the years that are draft eligible, in the Spurs-y prospect mold...

NBA scouts have been allowed to attend these events for the last few years and the Spurs have seemingly been at each one.

https://twitter.com/trigonis30/status/1002955441372975104?s=20

The 2018 one is particularly interesting when looking at the prospects who dominated.

Look at this article from nbadraft.net:
https://www.nbadraft.net/2018-pangos-all-american-camp-top-prospects/

The Top 5 at camp (in alphabetical order): Scottie Barnes, Charles Bassey, Anthony Edwards, Evan Mobley and Jaden Springer.
(FWIW, Tre Mann was considered in the top 10 and that was when he was 6"3).



https://twitter.com/Vol_Hoops/status/1355591418664910848?s=20

The more I see, hear and read about this kid - the more I feel he has Spur written all over him.

Scouting report projected outcome from Prospective Insight:

https://www.prospectiveinsight.com/post/scouting-jaden-springer

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/ddc0bf_bca69850cc7b4f348b6bc9893a480854~mv2.png/v1/fit/w_300,h_300,al_c,q_5/file.png

[Thomas82]

I see the appeal, for sure. He’s a freak of nature.

I actually saw some early mocks last year with us taking him in the lottery.

[The Truth #6]

Take a leap with me if you will:

With the Pangos All-American camp concluding, couldn't help but wonder who have been some of the dominant players over the years that are draft eligible, in the Spurs-y prospect mold...

NBA scouts have been allowed to attend these events for the last few years and the Spurs have seemingly been at each one.

https://twitter.com/trigonis30/status/1002955441372975104?s=20

The 2018 one is particularly interesting when looking at the prospects who dominated.

Look at this article from nbadraft.net:
https://www.nbadraft.net/2018-pangos-all-american-camp-top-prospects/

The Top 5 at camp (in alphabetical order): Scottie Barnes, Charles Bassey, Anthony Edwards, Evan Mobley and Jaden Springer.
(FWIW, Tre Mann was considered in the top 10 and that was when he was 6"3).



https://twitter.com/Vol_Hoops/status/1355591418664910848?s=20

The more I see, hear and read about this kid - the more I feel he has Spur written all over him.

Scouting report projected outcome from Prospective Insight:

https://www.prospectiveinsight.com/post/scouting-jaden-springer

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/ddc0bf_bca69850cc7b4f348b6bc9893a480854~mv2.png/v1/fit/w_300,h_300,al_c,q_5/file.png



“His dad and two older brothers are all at least 6’9” the article says. That’s a huge potential right there. Seems crazy that at age 18 he would grow half a foot, but that would be something to try and understand better as far as his ceiling. Man, if he grew even 3 inches, that would make him a consensus top-10 pick, I would have to think. But for now, is he a reach at 12? Possibly. If they draft him, they’d have to trade Walker I would think.

[Dejounte]

Take a leap with me if you will:

With the Pangos All-American camp concluding, couldn't help but wonder who have been some of the dominant players over the years that are draft eligible, in the Spurs-y prospect mold...

NBA scouts have been allowed to attend these events for the last few years and the Spurs have seemingly been at each one.

https://twitter.com/trigonis30/status/1002955441372975104?s=20

The 2018 one is particularly interesting when looking at the prospects who dominated.

Look at this article from nbadraft.net:
https://www.nbadraft.net/2018-pangos-all-american-camp-top-prospects/

The Top 5 at camp (in alphabetical order): Scottie Barnes, Charles Bassey, Anthony Edwards, Evan Mobley and Jaden Springer.
(FWIW, Tre Mann was considered in the top 10 and that was when he was 6"3).



https://twitter.com/Vol_Hoops/status/1355591418664910848?s=20

The more I see, hear and read about this kid - the more I feel he has Spur written all over him.

Scouting report projected outcome from Prospective Insight:

https://www.prospectiveinsight.com/post/scouting-jaden-springer

https://static.wixstatic.com/media/ddc0bf_bca69850cc7b4f348b6bc9893a480854~mv2.png/v1/fit/w_300,h_300,al_c,q_5/file.png

Doesn't he shoot too many mid-range shots though?

76 attempts near the rim
106 attempts at mid-range
46 attempts at the 3

46.4% of his total shots come from the mid-range.
42.9% of Keon's total shots came from the mid-range.
29.6% of Bouknight's shots came from the mid-range.

Hmm...

[PhantomDashCam]

“His dad and two older brothers are all at least 6’9” the article says. That’s a huge potential right there. Seems crazy that at age 18 he would grow half a foot, but that would be something to try and understand better as far as his ceiling. Man, if he grew even 3 inches, that would make him a consensus top-10 pick, I would have to think. But for now, is he a reach at 12? Possibly. If they draft him, they’d have to trade Walker I would think.

You're right. The Walker situation will be one to watch over the next season, (perhaps even sooner than that), if the Spurs do indeed draft a Guard.
Of course, if Jaden does grow to 6'9" it helps to eliminate that issue.

For me the Brandon Roy comp. really feels on point:

https://twitter.com/Evzsz/status/1363146159993147393?s=20
https://twitter.com/Evzsz/status/1363149036375527425?s=20

Loyal, humble, predictable (character/work-ethic wise), competitive...

I've got 3 main guys in this draft (Kai Jones, Tre Mann being the other two);
but I don't think it's a stretch to say that Springer may be the best guard, not named Cade, to come out of this draft when it's all said and done.

[PhantomDashCam]

Dejounte, let's not clog this this thread with our back and forth on Bouknight
I think we've done this enough.

My first post on Bouk though for reference that started this convo. I've highlighted the important parts in bold:


Bouk, to me, is one of those guys you want to avoid at all costs.

He’s like a hybrid of DDR (without the passing) and second half of the season Patty Mills (consistent chucker, no 3).
He thrives off taking contested 2s and loves to make the iso plays.

After watching LMA and DDR for the last few seasons, I would be happy if someone else buys into his game.

Can you teach guys to pass, make the solid play at 21 years old?

Springer makes game and team winning plays including mid-range jumpshots.

[Dejounte]

Dejounte, let's not clog this this thread with our back and forth on Bouknight
I think we've done this enough.

My first post on Bouk though for reference that started this convo. I've highlighted the important parts in bold:



Springer makes game and team winning plays including mid-range jumpshots.

“Team winning plays”? Quantify that. Otherwise, that’s completely subjective. Tennessee was not a top college team. They got bounced in the first game of the tournament. You don’t need to go back and forth. I’m providing facts and numbers that tackle the inconsistency.

[Mnky]

If you have the complete skill set, you don’t have to be a top flight athlete. Doncic probably couldn’t jump over a phone book.

If he were a top flight athlete on top of those skills, he wouldn’t be 5-10, he’d be top 3.

These types of comparisons are easy to say, but in reality how many of those non athletic "ball players" turn into stars, let alone in the league at all. Not everyone can be Jokic or Doncic and probability is pretty low for those types.


I said if he was a good athlete, he would secure that 5-10. He looks below average at times. Highlights are what most people see and nothing else. Watching his actual games is a different story. He's been moving up draft boards. This draft does have quite a few players with interesting potential.

[Mr. Body]

“Team winning plays”? Quantify that. Otherwise, that’s completely subjective. Tennessee was not a top college team. They got bounced in the first game of the tournament. You don’t need to go back and forth. I’m providing facts and numbers that tackle the inconsistency.

Rick Barnes team.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/ARHoopScoop/status/1402476325131198466

He'll fit in when Spurs do their boxing training.

CPwlRmcJLil

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Moody'll measure legit 6'7 , with 7+ wingspan and be taken in the 6-8 range :(

[Dejounte]

Moody'll measure legit 6'7 , with 7+ wingspan and be taken in the 6-8 range :(
He has stood next to BJ Boston, and he looked 6’6” at best. Although he may be the same height as Vassell, I still think he’s more suited to play the 3 than Vassell due to the longer wingspan.

[stnick2261]

“His dad and two older brothers are all at least 6’9” the article says. That’s a huge potential right there. Seems crazy that at age 18 he would grow half a foot, but that would be something to try and understand better as far as his ceiling. Man, if he grew even 3 inches, that would make him a consensus top-10 pick, I would have to think. But for now, is he a reach at 12? Possibly. If they draft him, they’d have to trade Walker I would think.

It's not common but David Robinson grew like 8 inches in college.

[exstatic]

It's not common but David Robinson grew like 8 inches in college.

David’s little brother Chuck was 7” shorter than he was. He never had David’s late growth spurt. Not all family members reach the same maximum height, and to put your lottery pick eggs in that basket of wishes is foolishness.

[stnick2261]

David’s little brother Chuck was 7” shorter than he was. He never had David’s late growth spurt. Not all family members reach the same maximum height, and to put your lottery pick eggs in that basket of wishes is foolishness.

Don't get me wrong. I never said to draft the guy. Robinson wasn't drafted until he had already fully grown.

[offset formation]

It should be said 3pt shooting is not everything. The Clippers are the most efficient 3pt shooting team in NBA history, have 2 of the best wing defenders on the planet (or so I'm told), and have among the league's best benches, yet barely hung onto the 4th spot in the West and had to go 7 games against a clearly inferior team in the 1st round. 3pt shooting is nice but it's not what you should live and die with.

Hell maybe this was just a chance to rip nephew cause fuck him.

[John B]

It should be said 3pt shooting is not everything. The Clippers are the most efficient 3pt shooting team in NBA history, have 2 of the best wing defenders on the planet (or so I'm told), and have among the league's best benches, yet barely hung onto the 4th spot in the West and had to go 7 games against a clearly inferior team in the 1st round. 3pt shooting is nice but it's not what you should live and die with.

Hell maybe this was just a chance to rip nephew cause fuck him.
I think you are underappreciating Doncic just a little bit with "clearly inferior team." I hate that Mavs have this guy, but he's an MVP candidate. Every time your team faces an MVP, it's anybody's game. If Zingis played to his billing, Mavs won that series.

[offset formation]

I think you are underappreciating Doncic just a little bit with "clearly inferior team." I hate that Mavs have this guy, but he's an MVP candidate. Every time your team faces an MVP, it's anybody's game. If Zingis played to his billing, Mavs won that series.

Team.

[R. DeMurre]

Those last 30 seconds...that range, effortless shooter.

Lots of question marks defensively, size wise and can he manipulate defenses with the pass on Offense; but that elite shot...

If you put together a Summer League team of:
Tre Jones, Tre Mann, Devin Vassell, Luka Samanic (Hope he attends) and 2nd round/Undrafted selection at the 5 (Ariel Hukporti?),
that team in 4 years; could all be Spurs starters (if things fall there way).

The most recent Tankathon has yer guy Mann going at #42, but Hukporti at #39... but they don't update as much as other mocks. Mann at 42 would be crazy. Jonathan Givony has him at #19.

[exstatic]

The most recent Tankathon has yer guy Mann going at #42, but Hukporti at #39... but they don't update as much as other mocks. Mann at 42 would be crazy. Jonathan Givony has him at #19.

That would be like Paul Reed last year. They had him at #17 on their big board, and he was drafted #58.

[bluebellmaniac]

17 days until the Lottery


54 days until the Draft

12 days until the Lottery

49 days until the Draft

[PhantomDashCam]

The most recent Tankathon has yer guy Mann going at #42, but Hukporti at #39... but they don't update as much as other mocks. Mann at 42 would be crazy. Jonathan Givony has him at #19.

Yeah, I saw Tankathon hasn't updated their mock in about 2 months. I assume we'll see a flurry of changes (and mocks) after the lottery drawing takes place.

Sam Vencenie's (The Athletic) latest Big Board had him at #35. One person questioned the ranking and Sam's response was insightful:


What happened to Tre Mann? I am high on him and you were relatively high on him before? What changed?

@Mike S. Yeah, have gotten a few Mann questions. I did the NBA Draft Guide deep dive on him and came away a bit less impressed with how the totality of his skillset works. Here's what I wrote in the summary of that profile that will be coming out probably in a month or so.

The idea of what Mann is as a scorer is tantalizing. The NBA is a jump-shooting league. The guys who can get their own shot, particularly from behind the NBA 3-point line, are more valuable than ever. Having the skills he does as a shot creator and shooter gives him some real upside if he can iron out the rest of his game. But Mann is absolutely still a project and a developing player. He would be taken advantage of pretty substantially on the defensive end right now, and has a long way to go to get to anywhere resembling an average level in the NBA. The key swing skill will be how he improves his ball control and ability to deal with pressure as a ballhandler. If he can tighten that up, and start being more comfortable getting into the middle of the floor without turning it over while making the passes he does already, he should stick around in the NBA for a while. But he’s probably going to have to iron some of that out in the G League first.

Basically, he doesn't really pressure the defense in the paint, even with that little floater. He's not a good enough passer or playmaker, and his handle is a bit too loose when he's around other bodies on the interior. Drives himself into trouble often. Might be a player who lives out on the perimeter and who also doesn't defend. So I think there are some skills he needs to improve even within the strengths of his game to translate.


All very valid criticisms I'd say.

I'd still have no issue pulling the trigger on this kid.

When you get a nickname of "Baby Steph" in High School, then grow 2 inches in college, all the while starting to round out your entire game through the murky COVID situation...
Encouraging stuff.
Think he has to be a lock for the first round when it's all said and done.

Imagine Houston gets the #1 or #2 pick and takes Cade or Mobley, then at #23 and #24 they draft like a J.T Thor and Tre Mann... :(

[keithington1]

I’m trying to envision Sengun on the Spurs roster and I’m perplexed. Could he start at PF next to Poeltl? Not for the sake of spacing and three point shooting. Could he start at C? Not for the sake of defense and shot blocking. Could he come off the bench? I guess but that’s not optimal because he’d be the best big man on the roster. If Sengun is drafted he needs to play alongside a shot blocking stretch 5 like Myles Turner. Could Dieng start?

[BackHome]

I think he could play with Dieng and I think he could play with Luka but I don't think he would be productive with Poodle

[SpursDynasty85]

I think he could play with Dieng and I think he could play with Luka but I don't think he would be productive with Poodle

Dieng should probably start over Poeltl. Both are great compliments to have at the center though and playing time should be dictated by matchups and who is playing better.

[exstatic]

I’m trying to envision Sengun on the Spurs roster and I’m perplexed. Could he start at PF next to Poeltl? Not for the sake of spacing and three point shooting. Could he start at C? Not for the sake of defense and shot blocking. Could he come off the bench? I guess but that’s not optimal because he’d be the best big man on the roster. If Sengun is drafted he needs to play alongside a shot blocking stretch 5 like Myles Turner. Could Dieng start?

Draft positioning could change radically after the combine. When the players physical profiles are known, a lot of these questions get answered.

[rjv]

I’m trying to envision Sengun on the Spurs roster and I’m perplexed. Could he start at PF next to Poeltl? Not for the sake of spacing and three point shooting. Could he start at C? Not for the sake of defense and shot blocking. Could he come off the bench? I guess but that’s not optimal because he’d be the best big man on the roster. If Sengun is drafted he needs to play alongside a shot blocking stretch 5 like Myles Turner. Could Dieng start?

solid points and analysis. sengun would definitely need to play alongside a rim protector because i can see him getting beat a lot off the dribble. i really haven't seen enough of him to evaluate his off-ball defense though and i have no idea what kind of defense the spurs would run with sengun on the court but his defense would be his weakness to start. offensively, he's not going to stretch the floor and i think most of his points would come off of the post. so, on the defensive end of things, he'd benefit from jakob's rim protection and he'd get his fair share of rebounds, but on the offensive side, a combo of sengun and poeltl would not help with spacing at all.

[pad300]

I’m trying to envision Sengun on the Spurs roster and I’m perplexed. Could he start at PF next to Poeltl? Not for the sake of spacing and three point shooting. Could he start at C? Not for the sake of defense and shot blocking. Could he come off the bench? I guess but that’s not optimal because he’d be the best big man on the roster. If Sengun is drafted he needs to play alongside a shot blocking stretch 5 like Myles Turner. Could Dieng start?

We worry about that after (if) we get Sengun. He'd be a 19 year old rookie. I'd guess we'd end up moving Poeltl, but that would be a year or so out, IMO.

[TD 21]

All very valid criticisms I'd say.

I'd still have no issue pulling the trigger on this kid.

When you get a nickname of "Baby Steph" in High School, then grow 2 inches in college, all the while starting to round out your entire game through the murky COVID situation...
Encouraging stuff.
Think he has to be a lock for the first round when it's all said and done.

Imagine Houston gets the #1 or #2 pick and takes Cade or Mobley, then at #23 and #24 they draft like a J.T Thor and Tre Mann... :(

Yeah. Even if he tops out as a worse version of Russell, that's still clearly closer to a modern offensive engine than any of the current youth.

They should look into trading back for either both Rockets or Knicks picks, targeting Mann, Butler, Murphy III.



I’m trying to envision Sengun on the Spurs roster and I’m perplexed. Could he start at PF next to Poeltl? Not for the sake of spacing and three point shooting. Could he start at C? Not for the sake of defense and shot blocking. Could he come off the bench? I guess but that’s not optimal because he’d be the best big man on the roster. If Sengun is drafted he needs to play alongside a shot blocking stretch 5 like Myles Turner. Could Dieng start?

Getting way too far ahead. He's unlikely to be a rotation player next season and would need to prove that first before even contemplating whether he's a starter.

If they select him and want Markkanen without having to give him an exorbitant offer sheet to dissuade the Bulls from matching, instead going the sign and trade route, they could offer Walker IV and Eubanks. Then re-sign Dieng.

Sengun would be the third center next season and hopefully at least pushing Dieng for minutes by the following one.

[Prime BEEF]

Dieng should probably start over Poeltl. Both are great compliments to have at the center though and playing time should be dictated by matchups and who is playing better.
Agreed

[Mr. Body]

Why are we thinking Dieng is sticking around?

[PrimeMinister]

This season and subsequent seasons need to be spent giving as much run as possible to young projects to see what they are, and help speed along development.

Dieng is a fun player. But he doesn’t belong on this team anymore.

[pad300]

Why are we thinking Dieng is sticking around?

Because he clearly wanted to come here. He could have picked just about anywhere else (and if he'd chosen well, he could've had a ring shot...).

[The Truth #6]

This season and subsequent seasons need to be spent giving as much run as possible to young projects to see what they are, and help speed along development.

Dieng is a fun player. But he doesn’t belong on this team anymore.

We are a lottery team with him so I don’t see what development challenges he poses. If anything, his outside shooting will help the young players improve.

[Mr. Body]

Because he clearly wanted to come here. He could have picked just about anywhere else (and if he'd chosen well, he could've had a ring shot...).

And then Popovich never played him.

[R. DeMurre]

I hope we retain Dieng, but he chose the Spurs after being released late in the season, knowing he'd only get a minimum salary to finish the year. It's a different story now, going into free agency with the hopes of a multi-year contract, possibly his last (at least semi-)lucrative one...

[SpursDynasty85]

And then Popovich never played him.

he got injured resulting in almost no practice time either and Eubanks was emerging. I do hope Dieng isn’t put off by that and we give him a decent contract to stay.

[Mr. Body]

he got injured resulting in almost no practice time either and Eubanks was emerging. I do hope Dieng isn’t put off by that and we give him a decent contract to stay.

I sure as hell wouldn't stick around if I were him.

[SpursDynasty85]

I sure as hell wouldn't stick around if I were him.

We will see. With a full training camp I imagine Dieng could start.

[SAGirl]

1403492523503403008

Spurs with none of these guys …

noteworthy that all these are ball handlers who can create their own shots and for teammates…

I definitely like the Spurs recent focus on defensive upside and hustle but let’s get a scorer or two … this list doesn’t even include rookies like Halliburton and Lamelo or guys buried in awful tanking teams like Shai who also have that potential. And not everyone may pan out who fits that type, but they have to gamble on some scoring potential.

[Mr. Body]

1403492523503403008

Spurs with none of these guys …

noteworthy that all these are ball handlers who can create their own shots and for teammates…

I definitely like the Spurs recent focus on defensive upside and hustle but let’s get a scorer or two … this list doesn’t even include rookies like Halliburton and Lamelo or guys buried in awful tanking teams like Shai who also have that potential. And not everyone may pan out who fits that type, but they have to gamble on some scoring potential.

It's like ESPN has a league directive to shit over the Spurs any chance they get.

[exstatic]

It's like ESPN has a league directive to shit over the Spurs any chance they get.

It’s actually like the Spurs have never had a pick in the range to get any of these guys, except Brooks, and they got bounced in the first round, anyway.

[The Truth #6]

JT Thor: https://youtu.be/Zy2-kiHPt8A

I’m still drinking the kool aid. So much upside for the modern NBA game.

[exstatic]

JT Thor: https://youtu.be/Zy2-kiHPt8A

I’m still drinking the kool aid. So much upside for the modern NBA game.

What nba skill does he have?

[Mr. Body]

It’s actually like the Spurs have never had a pick in the range to get any of these guys, except Brooks, and they got bounced in the first round, anyway.

Lol Dillon Brooks. Give me a fucking break.

[exstatic]

I saw a guy at the mall today with a tshirt that not had one word on the front:

Besiktas

We’re totally drafting Sengün.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1403439613298069505?s=20

Some Spurstalk names in there…

Cade doing a pro day? Sponsorship opportunities?

[R. DeMurre]

10 days until the lottery... I think I'm actually more excited for this off season than I was for the regular season.

[ace3g]

We have reached single digits - 9 days till the draft lottery.

[The Truth #6]

What nba skill does he have?

Well, when talking about a young player in the second round with upside, you’re looking for flashes, otherwise he’d be profiled for earlier in the draft, right? But for him: defensive versatility and shot making are what I see great glimpses of in him. Sort of a modern 4. Mobile, great lateral movement, huge wingspan, strong defensive performances already. At least one game with big offensive production. He looks to have a scoring mentality.

[BacktoBasics]

1403492523503403008

Spurs with none of these guys …

noteworthy that all these are ball handlers who can create their own shots and for teammates…

I definitely like the Spurs recent focus on defensive upside and hustle but let’s get a scorer or two … this list doesn’t even include rookies like Halliburton and Lamelo or guys buried in awful tanking teams like Shai who also have that potential. And not everyone may pan out who fits that type, but they have to gamble on some scoring potential.

Not a single ring in this pic.

[Dejounte]

I like Mann, but I’m starting to like Duarte more. I’ve got a feeling he’s bigger than listed, and combine that with those skills he already has, he could turn out to be quite the player. Only if they’re able to get another pick in the first round, of course.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/mike_schmitz/status/1404140792877256710?s=21

Lists Klay & Kobe as players he models his game after.

[PhantomDashCam]

https://twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/1403354088893468676?s=20

Not unexpected but think this will cost Giddey as far as draft stock is concerned.

IMHO, he could very well slip into the 20s now.

[SAGirl]

Not a single ring in this pic.
Not yet at least, those are all 25 and younger guys…

[rjv]

https://twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/1403354088893468676?s=20

Not unexpected but think this will cost Giddey as far as draft stock is concerned.

IMHO, he could very well slip into the 20s now.

If Giddey performs well in Vegas, I don't think his absence from the combine will be significant. And I'd be surprised if he dropped into the 20s.

[Russ]

If Giddey performs well in Vegas, I don't think his absence from the combine will be significant. And I'd be surprised if he dropped into the 20s.

Yeah. It's usually not a sign of weakness to skip the combine. In fact, it's kind of the opposite.

[Mr. Body]

https://twitter.com/NBADraftWass/status/1403354088893468676?s=20

Not unexpected but think this will cost Giddey as far as draft stock is concerned.

IMHO, he could very well slip into the 20s now.

No way.

[bluebellmaniac]

https://twitter.com/mike_schmitz/status/1404140792877256710?s=21

Lists Klay & Kobe as players he models his game after.

That should scratch him as a prospect.

[duncan2150]

Yeah. It's usually not a sign of weakness to skip the combine. In fact, it's kind of the opposite.

+1

[PhantomDashCam]

If Giddey performs well in Vegas, I don't think his absence from the combine will be significant. And I'd be surprised if he dropped into the 20s.


Yeah. It's usually not a sign of weakness to skip the combine. In fact, it's kind of the opposite.


No way.

The question though is how much will he be playing in these exhibitions?
Like most National teams (and even our own Spurs), they tend to favour seniority.
The Aussie team is one our deepest yet and he may only get sporadic minutes to showcase his game.

The combine wouldn’t be a great place for Giddey from the athletic measurement point of view but think he would ace the interviews, intangible aspect of it.

If you start lumping prospects together on your board and are looking for any ‘criteria’ for separation; does a lack of accessibility and up to date information sway your choice? I think it would have to, at least to some extent.

[bluebellmaniac]

12 days until the Lottery

49 days until the Draft

7 days until the Lottery

44 days until the Draft

[keithington1]

I really like Giddey. He reminds me of Joe Ingles, Ben Simmon, Luka Doncic. He can pass as good as Luka and Ben. He’s plays no D lol but has high iq. Luka plays no D as well. He just needs to shoot and attack with confidence similar to Lamelo. How he fits on this team idk but he is a talent

[rjv]

The question though is how much will he be playing in these exhibitions?
Like most National teams (and even our own Spurs), they tend to favour seniority.
The Aussie team is one our deepest yet and he may only get sporadic minutes to showcase his game.

The combine wouldn’t be a great place for Giddey from the athletic measurement point of view but think he would ace the interviews, intangible aspect of it.

If you start lumping prospects together on your board and are looking for any ‘criteria’ for separation; does a lack of accessibility and up to date information sway your choice? I think it would have to, at least to some extent.

he'll definitely get scouted in Vegas:

https://therookiewire.usatoday.com/2021/06/11/nba-teams-to-scout-josh-giddey-during-olympics-mini-camp-in-las-vegas/

Plus, I think it says something that Giddey is on such a loaded Aussie team, being that he is just 18.