Official San Antonio Spurs 2021 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

[timvp]

:depressed

[PrimeMinister]

Of course lol.

would be pretty hilarious if 12 hit the top 4 and 11 didnt...

would be doubly painful if 11 hits....

[BatManu20]

Naturally.


1397251121329082371

[Dejounte]

#12th it is.

[K...]

They hate us...... Confirmed

[BatManu20]

1397251879210471431

[Spursfanfromafar]

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1397251277059416068 ..No 12 it is..

[rjv]

looks like we're 12th

[exstatic]

I’m disappointed, but :lol Pelicans. They tanked pretty hard, lost the 3 way, and are only 2 picks ahead of us. Oh, and apparently Zion isn’t happy.

[BatManu20]

1397252895322505217

[Dex]

Just as expected. NBA certainly wasn't going to do the Spurs any favors.

Probably doesn't matter much in the big scheme, but I would have been amazed if we had "won" the coin flip.

[Dex]

I’m disappointed, but :lol Pelicans. They tanked pretty hard, lost the 3 way, and are only 2 picks ahead of us. Oh, and apparently Zion isn’t happy.

Only a matter of time before Zion bolts to L.A. or N.Y.

[playblair]

i am the best talent evaluator on this site i will give my thoughts on who the spurs will take at 12...........u can check my history i have been spot on with my picks for the previous 10 years all have turned out to be all star players..........

[exstatic]

Just as expected. NBA certainly wasn't going to do the Spurs any favors.

Probably doesn't matter much in the big scheme, but I would have been amazed if we had "won" the coin flip.

We were in an 11/12 flip last year and won.

[B1gduff]

wait was this the actually number order of the Lottory? are we 12th or is this just a mock run?

[Dex]

1397252895322505217

Imagine having the dumpster fire season that Minnesota had, and odds are they won't even get a draft pick out of it.

[exstatic]

wait was this the actually number order of the Lottory? are we 12th or is this just a mock run?

This is the pre lottery order. There were ties that needed to be broken, and now they are.

[Dejounte]

My pre-lottery mock draft v0.1 (assumes no trades)

1. Rockets - Cade Cunningham. No brainer pick.
2. Pistons - Evan Mobley. Another no brainer.
3. Magic - Jalen Green. Would pair with Fultz, Isaac nicely.
4. OKC - Alperen Sengun. I think their goal is to go all-international.
5. Cleveland - Scottie Barnes. Since the KPJ debacle, they'll go for high character guys. Scottie could fill the hole left by LeBron at SF/ PF.
6. Warriors - James Bouknight. They need scoring from someone other than Curry badly. James will do it all. I think they may actually trade this pick.
7. Raptors - Kai Jones. Raptors seem to go after these high risk, high reward types often.
8. Magic - Jonathan Kuminga. They'll have their next T-Mac here.
9. Kings - Moses Moody. They need shooters around their great playmakers.
10. Pelicans - Corey Kispert. They badly need shooters.
11. Hornets - Isaiah Jackson. They badly need a center.
12. Spurs - IMO, the best available: Franz Wagner, Josh Giddey, Usman Garuba (hesitate to put him here because of his low offensive upside, but who knows)

[exstatic]

Imagine having the dumpster fire season that Minnesota had, and odds are they won't even get a draft pick out of it.

They were on track for top 3, but decided to win games, and convey the pick this year. If they didn’t, it would be completely unprotected next year, and convey no matter what. The WORST thing that could happen for them is a lottery jump to 1,2,or 3.

[timvp]

My pre-lottery mock draft v0.1 (assumes no trades)

1. Rockets - Cade Cunningham. No brainer pick.
2. Pistons - Evan Mobley. Another no brainer.
3. Magic - Jalen Green. Would pair with Fultz, Isaac nicely.
4. OKC - Alperen Sengun. I think their goal is to go all-international.
5. Cleveland - Scottie Barnes. Since the KPJ debacle, they'll go for high character guys. Scottie could fill the hole left by LeBron at SF/ PF.
6. Warriors - James Bouknight. They need scoring from someone other than Curry badly. James will do it all. I think they may actually trade this pick.
7. Raptors - Kai Jones. Raptors seem to go after these high risk, high reward types often.
8. Magic - Jonathan Kuminga. They'll have their next T-Mac here.
9. Kings - Moses Moody. They need shooters around their great playmakers.
10. Pelicans - Corey Kispert. They badly need shooters.
11. Hornets - Isaiah Jackson. They badly need a center.
12. Spurs - IMO, the best available: Franz Wagner, Josh Giddey, Usman Garuba (hesitate to put him here because of his low offensive upside, but who knows)

You think Suggs will fall to the Spurs, tbh?

[Dejounte]

You think Suggs will fall to the Spurs, tbh?

Lmao wow... completely forgot him

[Dejounte]

My pre-lottery mock draft v0.2 (assumes no trades)

1. Rockets - Cade Cunningham. No brainer pick.
2. Pistons - Evan Mobley. Another no brainer.
3. Magic - Jalen Green. Would pair with Fultz, Isaac nicely.
4. OKC - Alperen Sengun. I think their goal is to go all-international.
5. Cleveland - Scottie Barnes. Since the KPJ debacle, they'll go for high character guys. Scottie could fill the hole left by LeBron at SF/ PF.
6. Warriors - Jalen Suggs. Warriors have to start thinking about their future after Curry + need a player who is ready to go. Suggs is the man for the job.
7. Raptors - Kai Jones. Raptors seem to go after these high risk, high reward types often.
8. Magic - Jonathan Kuminga. They'll have their next T-Mac here.
9. Kings - Moses Moody. They need shooters around their great playmakers.
10. Pelicans - Corey Kispert. They badly need shooters.
11. Hornets - Isaiah Jackson. They badly need a center.
12. Spurs - IMO, the best available: Franz Wagner, Josh Giddey, James Bouknight, Usman Garuba (hesitate to put him here because of his low offensive upside, but who knows)

[The Truth #6]

My pre-lottery mock draft v0.1 (assumes no trades)

1. Rockets - Cade Cunningham. No brainer pick.
2. Pistons - Evan Mobley. Another no brainer.
3. Magic - Jalen Green. Would pair with Fultz, Isaac nicely.
4. OKC - Alperen Sengun. I think their goal is to go all-international.
5. Cleveland - Scottie Barnes. Since the KPJ debacle, they'll go for high character guys. Scottie could fill the hole left by LeBron at SF/ PF.
6. Warriors - James Bouknight. They need scoring from someone other than Curry badly. James will do it all. I think they may actually trade this pick.
7. Raptors - Kai Jones. Raptors seem to go after these high risk, high reward types often.
8. Magic - Jonathan Kuminga. They'll have their next T-Mac here.
9. Kings - Moses Moody. They need shooters around their great playmakers.
10. Pelicans - Corey Kispert. They badly need shooters.
11. Hornets - Isaiah Jackson. They badly need a center.
12. Spurs - IMO, the best available: Franz Wagner, Josh Giddey, Usman Garuba (hesitate to put him here because of his low offensive upside, but who knows)

Interesting you have Sengun that high. Knowing Presti, he would probably trade down to get him, because they haven’t done any trades in a while. Ha.

[mo7888]

My pre-lottery mock draft v0.1 (assumes no trades)

1. Rockets - Cade Cunningham. No brainer pick.
2. Pistons - Evan Mobley. Another no brainer.
3. Magic - Jalen Green. Would pair with Fultz, Isaac nicely.
4. OKC - Alperen Sengun. I think their goal is to go all-international.
5. Cleveland - Scottie Barnes. Since the KPJ debacle, they'll go for high character guys. Scottie could fill the hole left by LeBron at SF/ PF.
6. Warriors - James Bouknight. They need scoring from someone other than Curry badly. James will do it all. I think they may actually trade this pick.
7. Raptors - Kai Jones. Raptors seem to go after these high risk, high reward types often.
8. Magic - Jonathan Kuminga. They'll have their next T-Mac here.
9. Kings - Moses Moody. They need shooters around their great playmakers.
10. Pelicans - Corey Kispert. They badly need shooters.
11. Hornets - Isaiah Jackson. They badly need a center.
12. Spurs - IMO, the best available: Franz Wagner, Josh Giddey, Usman Garuba (hesitate to put him here because of his low offensive upside, but who knows)

If Kuminga falls to 8th we desperately need to try and trade up with the Magic.

[timvp]

Players I'm hoping go before 12 to push down players the Spurs would actually draft: Davion Mitchell, Jalen Johnson, James Bouknight, Isaiah Jackson, Usman Garuba.

I don't think the Spurs draft any of those guys. I wouldn't mind Johnson or Bouknight -- but I just can't see San Antonio pulling the trigger on either one.

Alllllllmost worthy of a spot on that list: Kai Jones, Cam Thomas

[SpursStar]

Players I'm hoping go before 12 to push down players the Spurs would actually draft: Davion Mitchell, Jalen Johnson, James Bouknight, Isaiah Jackson, Usman Garuba.

I don't think the Spurs draft any of those guys. I wouldn't mind Johnson or Bouknight -- but I just can't see San Antonio pulling the trigger on either one.

Alllllllmost worthy of a spot on that list: Kai Jones, Cam Thomas


If available, passing on Johnson or Bouknight would be pretty foolish though. I think at that point, both would far and away be the best available.

[B1gduff]

This is the pre lottery order. There were ties that needed to be broken, and now they are.


so does that mean there still chance that we could get luck and move up?

[K...]

so does that mean there still chance that we could get luck and move up?

Yeah that's the lottery. If we won the coin toss wed have slightly better odds.

[Dejounte]

I think it goes like this:

If there were 1,000 ping pong balls, the Spurs have 80 of them. If they were 11th place, they would have had 85. Five more ping pong balls.

[Seventyniner]

We were in an 11/12 flip last year and won.

This. Saying today's coinflip loss is proof that the league hates the Spurs is completely asinine. Even losing both would have been a 25% chance.

[exstatic]

If available, passing on Johnson or Bouknight would be pretty foolish though. I think at that point, both would far and away be the best available.

I’d pick Bouknight in a second, but JJohnson just has too many family red flags for me. He enrolled in a prep academy. Things didn’t go his way, and his family pulled him out. He committed to Duke, played about a dozen games, and withdrew when things weren’t to his liking, AGAIN. Strikes me as a baby, and a bit of a quitter. I also question his shooting numbers, because his FT % is in the mid 60s.

[slick'81]

Spurs just cant catch a break this year

[SpursStar]

I’d pick Bouknight in a second, but JJohnson just has too many family red flags for me. He enrolled in a prep academy. Things didn’t go his way, and his family pulled him out. He committed to Duke, played about a dozen games, and withdrew when things weren’t to his liking, AGAIN. Strikes me as a baby, and a bit of a quitter. I also question his shooting numbers, because his FT % is in the mid 60s.

Definitely understand the concern with Johnson, I would definitely prefer Bouknight. If he’s the guy, I’d think it would have to lead to someone getting traded though.

[rjv]

I’d pick Bouknight in a second, but JJohnson just has too many family red flags for me. He enrolled in a prep academy. Things didn’t go his way, and his family pulled him out. He committed to Duke, played about a dozen games, and withdrew when things weren’t to his liking, AGAIN. Strikes me as a baby, and a bit of a quitter. I also question his shooting numbers, because his FT % is in the mid 60s.

since when have the spurs ever been burned by a family member? :spin

[The Truth #6]

Players I'm hoping go before 12 to push down players the Spurs would actually draft: Davion Mitchell, Jalen Johnson, James Bouknight, Isaiah Jackson, Usman Garuba.

I don't think the Spurs draft any of those guys. I wouldn't mind Johnson or Bouknight -- but I just can't see San Antonio pulling the trigger on either one.

Alllllllmost worthy of a spot on that list: Kai Jones, Cam Thomas

Interesting. I’m not totally sold on Garuba because I see the offensive challenges, but I’m less so on Kai Jones. What are you seeing? Jones can barely do anything right now.

[timvp]

In ESPN's latest mock, at 12 the Spurs would have their choice of Moody, Giddey, Sengun, Bouknight, Kai, Cam, Mann and Ziaire (plus Garuba and Isaiah Jackson, for the record). I think there's like an 85% chance one of those players ends up being a star. Picking which one will be very difficult though, tbh.

I think my choice right now would be either Moody or Giddey ... but, man, it's going to be a tough call.

[Atl Spur]

I’d pick Bouknight in a second, but JJohnson just has too many family red flags for me. He enrolled in a prep academy. Things didn’t go his way, and his family pulled him out. He committed to Duke, played about a dozen games, and withdrew when things weren’t to his liking, AGAIN. Strikes me as a baby, and a bit of a quitter. I also question his shooting numbers, because his FT % is in the mid 60s.

I totally agree!

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I’d pick Bouknight in a second, but JJohnson just has too many family red flags for me. He enrolled in a prep academy. Things didn’t go his way, and his family pulled him out. He committed to Duke, played about a dozen games, and withdrew when things weren’t to his liking, AGAIN. Strikes me as a baby, and a bit of a quitter. I also question his shooting numbers, because his FT % is in the mid 60s.


Definitely understand the concern with Johnson, I would definitely prefer Bouknight. If he’s the guy, I’d think it would have to lead to someone getting traded though.

Wait, so you wouldn't take Johnson because he left a couple of programs, but it's OK picking the guy who got arrested?

[timvp]

I’d pick Bouknight in a second, but JJohnson just has too many family red flags for me. He enrolled in a prep academy. Things didn’t go his way, and his family pulled him out. He committed to Duke, played about a dozen games, and withdrew when things weren’t to his liking, AGAIN. Strikes me as a baby, and a bit of a quitter. I also question his shooting numbers, because his FT % is in the mid 60s.

I like Bouknight's talent but will the Spurs draft a guy who took some coed's car, went speeding in a 25 MPH zone while drunk and then ran from the popo? I don't see it, tbh.

I could imagine Johnson much easier than Bouknight. Pop hired Kelvin Sampson a few minutes after the NCAA banished him :lol

[timvp]

Wait, so you wouldn't take Johnson because he left a couple of programs, but it's OK picking the guy who got arrested?

Beat me to it. Yeah, Johnson took advantage of a corrupt system. I highly doubt the Spurs care (but, that said, there are enough character questions in general that it could be an issue). Bouknight's arrest is probably a nonstarter.

[SAGirl]

I’m disappointed, but :lol Pelicans. They tanked pretty hard, lost the 3 way, and are only 2 picks ahead of us. Oh, and apparently Zion isn’t happy.
Zion is probably jealous Ja Morant made the playoffs and he didn’t while other youngins in the same age group have also broken in like Doncic, and Trae Young. If he stays in the basement the conversation around him will change soon. I am sure he wants veterans to help his team and for then to get out of the cellar. Good for him.

[rjv]

In ESPN's latest mock, at 12 the Spurs would have their choice of Moody, Giddey, Sengun, Bouknight, Kai, Cam, Mann and Ziaire (plus Garuba and Isaiah Jackson, for the record). I think there's like an 85% chance one of those players ends up being a star. Picking which one will be very difficult though, tbh.

I think my choice right now would be either Moody or Giddey ... but, man, it's going to be a tough call.

i just hope the spurs are fortunate enough to have to choose between either one of them. assuming, we stay at 12, of course.

[exstatic]

since when have the spurs ever been burned by a family member? :spin

EXACTLY

[exstatic]

In ESPN's latest mock, at 12 the Spurs would have their choice of Moody, Giddey, Sengun, Bouknight, Kai, Cam, Mann and Ziaire (plus Garuba and Isaiah Jackson, for the record). I think there's like an 85% chance one of those players ends up being a star. Picking which one will be very difficult though, tbh.

I think my choice right now would be either Moody or Giddey ... but, man, it's going to be a tough call.

Giddeys crap shooting and meh athleticism scare the shit out of me.

[Marco]

Consolation prize: we have the 11th pick in the second round.

[spurraider21]

i want Wagner to make it just so my dude Dejounte gets his guy

[SpursStar]

Beat me to it. Yeah, Johnson took advantage of a corrupt system. I highly doubt the Spurs care (but, that said, there are enough character questions in general that it could be an issue). Bouknight's arrest is probably a nonstarter.

Who cares? He was arrested for crashing a vehicle into a road sign while smelling like alcohol and running away. Something like domestic violence is definitely a different story. He was also a freshman. Can people not learn from mistakes? I guess by that logic, Murray shouldn’t have been drafted since he was nearly sent to juvie. Or maybe he should’ve been traded away after that social media argument with the female influencer. I’m sure that’s not the “Spurs way”, either. People are capable of learning from mistakes and growing.

[Dejounte]

i want Wagner to make it just so my dude Dejounte (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=51342) gets his guy

Perfect fit, IMO. But I'm used to it not happening my way and fully expect him to be selected right before the Spurs because that's my luck...

I would be just as happy with Moody, Bouknight, and Giddey.

I'm not hitching my wagon onto one horse this year.

[The Truth #6]

Giddeys crap shooting and meh athleticism scare the shit out of me.

It’s a concern, mostly the shooting for me. Otherwise it’s sort of like Steve Nash without the shooting. Hyperbolizing, but can it still work? It puts a ceiling on him coming in. You hope he could improve the shooting at least.

[timvp]

Who cares? He was arrested for crashing a vehicle into a road sign while smelling like alcohol and running away. Something like domestic violence is definitely a different story. He was also a freshman. Can people not learn from mistakes? I guess by that logic, Murray shouldn’t have been drafted since he was nearly sent to juvie. Or maybe he should’ve been traded away after that social media argument with the female influencer. I’m sure that’s not the “Spurs way”, either. People are capable of learning from mistakes and growing.

Yeah, I don't have a problem with Bouknight or his arrest, tbh. Seems like it was like a one time incident. But would the Spurs looked past the arrest? Probably not, IMO.

[Kurik]

Moody and Wagner are my top 2 assuming no one falls.

[timvp]

Giddeys crap shooting and meh athleticism scare the shit out of me.

Very fair, tbh. He's definitely one of the many bust candidates between 6 and 20. He'd probably be as much of a longshot as Samanic was coming into the draft.

[The Truth #6]

With Bouknight and what sounds like a DUI, it could go either way imo. Either Spurs take the high road and pass, or RC empathizes with him and sees someone that made a mistake that hopefully doesn’t define him.

[Degoat]

The spurs will get a great player at 12, like many have mentioned there’s lots of guys in that range that could absolutely become a star just gotta find the one, and you never know what players will fall. Tyrese Halliburton was last years 12th pick

[Dejounte]

Ultimate worst case scenario for me:

1. Cade
2. Mobley
3. Suggs
4. Green
5. Kuminga
6. Barnes
7. Giddey
8. Franz Wagner
9. Moody
10. Sengun
11. Bouknight

Then all the Spurs have left available are: Keon, Jalen Johnson, Davion Mitchell, Kai Jones, Isaiah Jackson, Garuba. Gross, tbh.

[Degoat]

Ultimate worst case scenario for me:

1. Cade
2. Mobley
3. Suggs
4. Green
5. Kuminga
6. Barnes
7. Giddey
8. Franz Wagner
9. Moody
10. Sengun
11. Bouknight

Then all the Spurs have left available are: Keon, Jalen Johnson, Davion Mitchell, Kai Jones, Isaiah Jackson, Garuba. Gross, tbh.

That probably is the worst case scenario but we’d still get a good player, all those guys could contribute imo

[timvp]

Consolation prize: we have the 11th pick in the second round.

Good point. Pick 41 looks like it'll be a good one.

Dream scenario: Other teams get scared off of Duarte because he's 24 years old and he drops to 41.

If that doesn't happen, there are a lot of tall shooters who could help: Edwards, Murphy, Bagley, Robinson-Earl, Hurt, Todd, Livers, Aldama, Champagnie, etc, etc

There are a ton of tall shooters in this draft that will be available in the second round -- and that's exactly what the Spurs need.

[timvp]

Ultimate worst case scenario for me:

1. Cade
2. Mobley
3. Suggs
4. Green
5. Kuminga
6. Barnes
7. Giddey
8. Franz Wagner
9. Moody
10. Sengun
11. Bouknight

Then all the Spurs have left available are: Keon, Jalen Johnson, Davion Mitchell, Kai Jones, Isaiah Jackson, Garuba. Gross, tbh.

The pick would then most likely be Keon or Kispert, IMO.

[Sugus]

Silver lost the Spurs the coinflip just to make it all the more surprising and dramatic when they jump into the top 4, TBH.......



Playing the long game :stirpot:

[BatManu20]

The pick would then most likely be Keon or Kispert, IMO.

Kispert imo. He’s got Spur written all over him and fills our biggest need. Don’t think PATFO would think twice about it tbh.

[Ignazzz]

I did SIM in tankathlon.
spurs 4th pick

[exstatic]

Good point. Pick 41 looks like it'll be a good one.

Dream scenario: Other teams get scared off of Duarte because he's 24 years old and he drops to 41.

If that doesn't happen, there are a lot of tall shooters who could help: Edwards, Murphy, Bagley, Robinson-Earl, Hurt, Todd, Livers, Aldama, Champagnie, etc, etc

There are a ton of tall shooters in this draft that will be available in the second round -- and that's exactly what the Spurs need.
Murphy’s my hopeful dropper.

[baseline bum]

Just as expected. NBA certainly wasn't going to do the Spurs any favors.

Probably doesn't matter much in the big scheme, but I would have been amazed if we had "won" the coin flip.

Really? You're going to go conspiracy after the Spurs won the lottery in both the years since 1987 when (1) they were in it and (2) there was a consensus #1 pick thought to be a franchise player?

[TD 21]

I don't know if it's because they've accumulated a cadre of young role players in recent years, the lack of an obvious fit or what, but I'm not particularly intrigued with anyone.

Wagner, Barnes, Johnson all have intriguing modern four/big wing physical tools and skillsets to a degree, but I'm sick of drafting limited - non shooters.

I get the sense they'll have significant interest in Sengun, though (Sabonis lite?).



We were in an 11/12 flip last year and won.

True, but it just feels so typical of the post '14 Spurs.

I have no confidence it'll actually happen, but as I've said, this league owes this organization and there's a history of ones in similar situations conveniently having lottery luck in short order.

[Dex]

Really? You're going to go conspiracy after the Spurs won the lottery in both the years since 1987 when (1) they were in it and (2) there was a consensus #1 pick thought to be a franchise player?

That was two-and-a-half decades and one commissioner ago, and before the Spurs took over the NBA for like 20 years.

Seriously though, I was really kidding. A coin flip is just that.

[timvp]

Kispert imo. He’s got Spur written all over him and fills our biggest need. Don’t think PATFO would think twice about it tbh.

Yeah, if he's a legit 6-foot-7, 220 pounds, he'd be a tough player for the Spurs to pass. He has enough bulk and athleticism that you might even be able to start Murray, White, Kispert, Keldon and Poeltl. Kispert is obviously not a great athlete but he's a better athlete than Giddey, Cam, Butler and maybe one or two other potential lottery picks, FWIW.

[cd98]

I'd take a top 5 pick over getting to the play-in and losing the game. By the time the Spurs draft at 12, most of the players we want will be gone.

[timvp]

Murphy’s my hopeful dropper.

Yeah, Murphy looks like he'll be a shooter. Splits of 50/43/93 and his name is Trey Murphy III -- how could that dude not be a legit three-point shooter, tbh :lol

[duncan2150]

If my top 3 Moody, Sengun, Giddey is out of reach, i would not mind Kispert.

[barakz21]

So, let me get this straight.. the Spurs at 12 isn’t final, just a projection, correct? And there’s still a small chance they can get a higher pick?

[rjv]

Ultimate worst case scenario for me:

1. Cade
2. Mobley
3. Suggs
4. Green
5. Kuminga
6. Barnes
7. Giddey
8. Franz Wagner
9. Moody
10. Sengun
11. Bouknight

Then all the Spurs have left available are: Keon, Jalen Johnson, Davion Mitchell, Kai Jones, Isaiah Jackson, Garuba. Gross, tbh.


The pick would then most likely be Keon or Kispert, IMO.

someone always pulls a stunner so i'm pretty confident someone (e.g., kai jones, davion mitchell) will get picked higher than they should.

[Dejounte]

I'd take a top 5 pick over getting to the play-in and losing the game. By the time the Spurs draft at 12, most of the players we want will be gone.

Players selected between #12 to #20 last year that I'm sure folks here would be happy with:

Haliburton
Poku
Bey
maybe Stewart
then there's guys like Bane and Tillman picked after #20 doing great for their team

A couple of the guys listed above should be picked over the top 10 in that draft in a re-draft.

I'm not sure if you've bothered reading this thread, but there's guys that "we want" who are likely to be there at #12 that won't be "gone".

[Dejounte]

someone always pulls a stunner so i'm pretty confident someone (e.g., kai jones, davion mitchell) will get picked higher than they should.

Oh I'm sure. It's just better for me to expect the worst. :toast

[BackHome]

I can see Wagner dropping as his celling is not that high

[Dejounte]

My hangup with Kispert is this:

Let's assume his ceiling is one of the top shooters (without anything else) of all time... say, Reggie Miller-esque, Peja Stojakovic, Klay (without defense), Kyle Korver, Ray Allen...

Is that really a building block that would elevate the team?

I would say "yes, go for it" if the players left are too risky. But if there were other guys there.... Ehh..

I want guys with two-way potential, or at least playmaking potential to be a main engine for the team.

[playblair]

some of u r terrible scouts.......kai jones is the prize of the draft followed by greg brown who the spurs covet..........cant believe well respected people in the thread are saying Moody, Sengun, Giddey........... smh its a burden being the best scout of talent on this site

[TD 21]

Yeah, if he's a legit 6-foot-7, 220 pounds, he'd be a tough player for the Spurs to pass. He has enough bulk and athleticism that you might even be able to start Murray, White, Kispert, Keldon and Poeltl. Kispert is obviously not a great athlete but he's a better athlete than Giddey, Cam, Butler and maybe one or two other potential lottery picks, FWIW.

He looks it. I suspect his selection would not go over well here, but I'd probably prefer him over the project big wings and bigs.

Since he's older, athletically limited and not a conventional shot creator, the perception would be low ceiling. But if he can be in the mold of Bertans, Harris, Robinson, McDermott, etc., that's a potential low-high teens annual salary in 4 years, only he'll obviously be relatively inexpensive until then, which is great value at 12.

[cd98]

Players selected between #12 to #20 last year that I'm sure folks here would be happy with:

Haliburton
Poku
Bey
maybe Stewart
then there's guys like Bane and Tillman picked after #20 doing great for their team

A couple of the guys listed above should be picked over the top 10 in that draft in a re-draft.

I'm not sure if you've bothered reading this thread, but there's guys that "we want" who are likely to be there at #12 that won't be "gone".

Remember that last year's draft was an anomaly. The college season was cut short the year prior and so the players couldn't be scouted like years past. It was also a year where there were less opportunities to evaluate players. So there were greater opportunities for finding gems than normally is the case. The difference makers are 1-5, in terms of projection. That's the same every year.

[TXstbobcat]

Spurs odds of getting the first pick 1.7%
2nd pick 1.9%
3rd pick 2.1%
4th pick 2.4%

[TXstbobcat]

So, let me get this straight.. the Spurs at 12 isn’t final, just a projection, correct? And there’s still a small chance they can get a higher pick?

Spurs odds of getting the first pick 1.7%
2nd pick 1.9%
3rd pick 2.1%
4th pick 2.4%

[PhantomDashCam]

Haven’t Spurs in the past been swayed by performances at the combine too? Samanic and G. Hill come to mind.
A different scenario I guess with mid-late first rounders…

If Spurs were thinking about Desmond Bane last year, Kispert would make sense at 12, not to mention the obvious shooting draw. Both participated at the Pro basketball combine post Junior years, sought advice on what NBA teams wanted to see and then returned/implemented said advice into their senior seasons.

[SpursStar]

Would drafting a one dimensional player really be smart though? I don’t think we have the talent to defensively hide someone that can only shoot. Wouldn’t this just be another Bryn/Marco situation but just with someone that’s 6’7?

[Dejounte]

Better in almost every category + on a top 3 team in the nation

https://i.ibb.co/d2fF5mB/franz-vs-tatum.png

[mo7888]

Better in almost every category + on a top 3 team in the nation

https://i.ibb.co/d2fF5mB/franz-vs-tatum.png

I still think he's the 6th best player in this draft and has the chance to be the best player on a team that can compete for the top spot in the West if his outside shot stays at 38% or better. He's not the best fit with Murray but, other than that there aren't many concerns.

[Big Empty]

With Patty likely gone, DD gone, with Lonny sub par, wouldnt be suprised if the Spurs took Tre Mann. Gots handles & can create. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YAPyFQmV_Q4

[Dejounte]

https://i.ibb.co/BV4MScH/kispert-vs-others.png

Kispert compares favorably against past great shooters. His numbers are actually identical to Reggie's, except that he shot more 3's and he weighs 30+ lbs more.

Unfortunately, tankathon didn't have guys like Ray Allen, Peja, Kyle Korver in their database for me to compare Kispert to.

Kispert's WS/40 is extremely high. Very few players have it that high. The ones that do are actually good players in the NBA. This indicates to me that Kispert won't bust at all. The question is, how good will he be?

[exstatic]

My hangup with Kispert is this:

Let's assume his ceiling is one of the top shooters (without anything else) of all time... say, Reggie Miller-esque, Peja Stojakovic, Klay (without defense), Kyle Korver, Ray Allen...

Is that really a building block that would elevate the team?

I would say "yes, go for it" if the players left are too risky. But if there were other guys there.... Ehh..

I want guys with two-way potential, or at least playmaking potential to be a main engine for the team.

Take heart. The Spurs usually want players who are secondary creators, too, at least in the first round.

[TD 21]

Would drafting a one dimensional player really be smart though? I don’t think we have the talent to defensively hide someone that can only shoot. Wouldn’t this just be another Bryn/Marco situation but just with someone that’s 6’7?

Fair, but the fact that he's relatively big/strong + committed gives him a chance to be a non liability type a la Harris.



With Patty likely gone, DD gone, with Lonny sub par, wouldnt be suprised if the Spurs took Tre Mann. Gots handles & can create. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YAPyFQmV_Q4

I'd have strong interest in trading back for Butler or Mann + trading Walker IV, but they don't do things like that.

[SAGirl]

Depending on where we land in the draft, I like Kispert and Wagner. Both guys look like they don't need to spend 2 plus years in Austin developing.

I like them too. I honestly don’t look too deep anymore because its so time consuming and the Spurs will pick whomever... There could be better prospects than these, with a chance to have untapped potential but sometimes this potential doesn’t pan out and the player then ends in the middle of nowhere, as an unfinished prospect, maybe not even an NBA player. I leave the ability to find the diamonds in the raw to real scouts. If I were to hit on one it would be pure chance.

Anyways I like the idea of having someone who can contribute right away and get better from there and of Kispert in particular I like that he’s not stationary shooter. He will search shot opportunities, he will cut, relocate, curl off screens, etc. These kinds of shooters add a dimension to an offense that the Spurs have been lacking in their starters and will lose if they let Mills go. I think he will fit right in.

Wagner seems like he has more size and ability to make plays off the bounce. He may be better overall because of his versatility.

[SAGirl]

https://i.ibb.co/BV4MScH/kispert-vs-others.png

Kispert compares favorably against past great shooters. His numbers are actually identical to Reggie's, except that he shot more 3's and he weighs 30+ lbs more.

Unfortunately, tankathon didn't have guys like Ray Allen, Peja, Kyle Korver in their database for me to compare Kispert to.

Kispert's WS/40 is extremely high. Very few players have it that high. The ones that do are actually good players in the NBA. This indicates to me that Kispert won't bust at all. The question is, how good will he be?

Quality post ty. I was actually posting about him before I saw this. I like his game, I’d take him. I don’t mind the age because plenty of really good players have joined the league that old, and the skills that matter are already developed. There could be a higher upside I am missing. I am not doing any exhaustive research at all, but his offensive game is impressive. He will be productive for somebody right away.

[timvp]

My hangup with Kispert is this:

Let's assume his ceiling is one of the top shooters (without anything else) of all time... say, Reggie Miller-esque, Peja Stojakovic, Klay (without defense), Kyle Korver, Ray Allen...

Is that really a building block that would elevate the team?

I would say "yes, go for it" if the players left are too risky. But if there were other guys there.... Ehh..

I want guys with two-way potential, or at least playmaking potential to be a main engine for the team.

My counter is the Spurs are just about to the point where a shooting upgrade is mandatory. Even if they land the second coming of the Greek Freak, could they develop him right now with the lack of shooting on the roster? Probably not. I view Kispert as a needed piece that, if he pans out, will allow the real superstar to develop at some point down the line. Obviously, Kispert won't be that superstar but he looks like he can be a legit building block toward that.

[PhantomDashCam]

Would drafting a one dimensional player really be smart though? I don’t think we have the talent to defensively hide someone that can only shoot. Wouldn’t this just be another Bryn/Marco situation but just with someone that’s 6’7?

One dimensional might be a little unfair. He lacks the athletic profile to be a plus defender in the NBA but he's intelligent, knows what to work on and has made a point of emphasis of improving his lateral quickness (an ongoing process), to at least stay in front of most guys.

He also worked out for a couple of days with Joe Harris prior to his senior year. A Joe Harris type on this team is a definite move in the right direction.

[objective]

Like others, I am not too excited with Kispert because I'd rather the home run swing on a project that high.

1 dimensional shooters, even the greatest, can be found in the second round or as undrafted.

Korver, Bertans, Harris, Duncan Robinson, etc etc. Even Forbes

And if Kispert is not a plus defender, and looks like he has zero playmaking unlike a JJ Redic, then he'll probably disappoint.

[Russ]

Obviously, Kispert won't be that superstar but he looks like he can be a legit building block toward that.

I suppose there may be worse fates than Kispert at 12. He is a helluva shooter -- I noticed that most of his 3s are from NBA range. His release is a bit low but most NBA 3s are wide open -- make or miss.

And he's an undervalued asset after his performance against Baylor -- that's always a good thing.

Still, a higher upside prospect seems the better fit.

A few years ago, Kispert could have been the icing on the cake -- now the Spurs pretty much need the cake.

[timvp]

Like others, I am not too excited with Kispert because I'd rather the home run swing on a project that high.

1 dimensional shooters, even the greatest, can be found in the second round or as undrafted.

Korver, Bertans, Harris, Duncan Robinson, etc etc. Even Forbes

And if Kispert is not a plus defender, and looks like he has zero playmaking unlike a JJ Redic, then he'll probably disappoint.



Still, a higher upside prospect seems the better fit.

A few years ago, Kispert could have been the icing on the cake -- now the Spurs pretty much need the cake.

Tough to argue against that, tbh. Big picture-wise, the Spurs need to swing for the fences. For the reasons stated, Kispert likely isn't going to have a high ranking when I put together a Big Board. I also think he has some sneaky downside risk. A guy who was second round pick as a junior who became a lottery pick as a senior is a red flag. The history of those players isn't good.

Kispert is draftable by the Spurs in the lottery, IMO, but it'd have to be because the Spurs don't think the rest of the gambles are worth the risk.

[The Truth #6]

Just thinking of the Spurs type players based on either personality or skill set, or both.

Kispert.
Duarte.
Wagner.
Garuba.
Sengun.
Moody.
Tre Mann.

Not saying these would all be targeted with the #12 pick, but thinking of the type of players they usually go for.

I'm preparing for Kispert. And I suppose as others have said, it's not even so much about him but how he could affect how other Spurs play. If Kispert's spacing helps Keldon bulldoze to the rim more freely, for example, then I suppose I can see the benefit and get on board. I suppose he can't really be a bust at 12, but the lack of upside does seem concerning. But to flip it around, I'd rather pick Kispert than Kai Jones, for example.

I really hope we can squeeze into the top 4 and debate Suggs versus Kaminga, but that's not likely.

[Dejounte]

Imagine Vassell (or White) and Kispert on the wings. They both move off the ball really well. You couldn't ask for more spacing. Murray can go jack up his mid range shots and Keldon would drive and kick all day long (though I'd hope he would have developed more of an in-between game by next season)

[Degoat]

Man I love draft season! It’s gonna be interesting, on paper we need a big wing, a shooter, or a big but I don’t believe the spurs really ever draft on team needs tbh they draft the guy they feel is on the top of their big board.

[Dejounte]

Man I love draft season! It’s gonna be interesting, on paper we need a big wing, a shooter, or a big but I don’t believe the spurs really ever draft on team needs tbh they draft the guy they feel is on the top of their big board.

Last year they drafted on need, IMO. Without Vassell, what do they have with Lonnie underperforming and Mills & DeMar likely gone? They also don't really have a backup point without Mills, and they have Tre now.

[Chinook]

My counter is the Spurs are just about to the point where a shooting upgrade is mandatory. Even if they land the second coming of the Greek Freak, could they develop him right now with the lack of shooting on the roster? Probably not. I view Kispert as a needed piece that, if he pans out, will allow the real superstar to develop at some point down the line. Obviously, Kispert won't be that superstar but he looks like he can be a legit building block toward that.

Eff all that. The goal shouldn't be to try to get a designated shooter to make the broken perimeter players the Spurs currently have work. There's no way they should go into next year with the plan to be to run White, Murray, Johnson and Poeltl. That's barely a more functional unit than the one this year. I have nothing against any player in the draft at this point, so this isn't me not being okay with Kispert. But even with him, the Spurs need to replace one of their perimeter starters with a guy like Vassell. Honestly, the team needs to be capable to replacing two this off-season, whether it's because Vassell takes a leap, the team drafts a player or they use some of their cap space to drag away some free agents.

IF Murray, White and/or Johnson prove themselves as starters in camp, sure keep them. But don't have them go basically unopposed. Developing them isn't the team's priority anymore, certainly not to the point where another young player like Bouknight can't develop because a bunch of meh guys keep taking turns running into defenses and burping up bad possessions. Basically, the Spurs shouldn't draft with roster fit in mind. They have plenty of cap space to worry about that. They're going to have to just take who they think will be the best player, whether that be a role-player or a potential star who'd require a complete reworking of his supporting cast to develop.

I also think that the Spurs should be more willing than every to trade some of their "core" for future value. They no longer have a leg to stand on when it comes to them "winning now", so using looking to make a deal with White, Murray and/or Poeltl makes a ton of sense. Moving any of those guys also opens up a spot for a shooter who'd make it easier to draft a guy who needs space.

[PhantomDashCam]

Just thinking of the Spurs type players based on either personality or skill set, or both.

Kispert.
Duarte.
Wagner.
Garuba.
Sengun.
Moody.
Tre Mann.

Not saying these would all be targeted with the #12 pick, but thinking of the type of players they usually go for.

I'm preparing for Kispert. And I suppose as others have said, it's not even so much about him but how he could affect how other Spurs play. If Kispert's spacing helps Keldon bulldoze to the rim more freely, for example, then I suppose I can see the benefit and get on board. I suppose he can't really be a bust at 12, but the lack of upside does seem concerning. But to flip it around, I'd rather pick Kispert than Kai Jones, for example.

I really hope we can squeeze into the top 4 and debate Suggs versus Kaminga, but that's not likely.

Definitely a Spurs-y type list. Think you could add Jaden Springer there too.

Wears #11. Similar body type and hair to a prior Spur. :lol

[Degoat]

Last year they drafted on need, IMO. Without Vassell, what do they have with Lonnie underperforming and Mills & DeMar likely gone? They also don't really have a backup point without Mills, and they have Tre now.

Maybe so, but I think last year a big wing or a big man was more of a need, but we selected Vassell because he was the highest on their big board. We didn’t know if Jakob would be back, LMA was in his last year, Luka looked like a bust at the time. Meanwhile we already had two wings we were developing in Lonnie and Keldon.

[SAGirl]

Chinook, I’d love to see the Spurs make moves with any kind of direction and purpose, but they have been very averse to it, either bc they overvalue their guys or other teams want to push their crap on them, but one thing they aren’t is opportunistic—to their detriment.

This is kind of why I don’t bother too much with scouting anymore (plus time sink)... Was Samanic a better prospect than Keldon? Has he panned out? Not yet. Maybe he will next season. He’s looked good sometimes, but not enough. Keldon has given more flashes. Anyways I leave that to the experts. I do hope they pick someone who pans out. Every season they gamble and miss will cost them years in the bottom dwellers spots.

[PhantomDashCam]

Eff all that. The goal shouldn't be to try to get a designated shooter to make the broken perimeter players the Spurs currently have work. There's no way they should go into next year with the plan to be to run White, Murray, Johnson and Poeltl. That's barely a more functional unit than the one this year. I have nothing against any player in the draft at this point, so this isn't me not being okay with Kispert. But even with him, the Spurs need to replace one of their perimeter starters with a guy like Vassell. Honestly, the team needs to be capable to replacing two this off-season, whether it's because Vassell takes a leap, the team drafts a player or they use some of their cap space to drag away some free agents.

IF Murray, White and/or Johnson prove themselves as starters in camp, sure keep them. But don't have them go basically unopposed. Developing them isn't the team's priority anymore, certainly not to the point where another young player like Bouknight can't develop because a bunch of meh guys keep taking turns running into defenses and burping up bad possessions. Basically, the Spurs shouldn't draft with roster fit in mind. They have plenty of cap space to worry about that. They're going to have to just take who they think will be the best player, whether that be a role-player or a potential star who'd require a complete reworking of his supporting cast to develop.

I also think that the Spurs should be more willing than every to trade some of their "core" for future value. They no longer have a leg to stand on when it comes to them "winning now", so using looking to make a deal with White, Murray and/or Poeltl makes a ton of sense. Moving any of those guys also opens up a spot for a shooter who'd make it easier to draft a guy who needs space.

I think in all honesty that will be the outcome. You definitely want to run a camp this year where competition for spots are fierce and nothing is pre determined.

I almost wish FA occurred prior to the draft this year to give us at least an idea of what needs can be addressed before potentially utilising a pick for anything other than projected BPA.

[SAGirl]

Maybe so, but I think last year a big wing or a big man was more of a need, but we selected Vassell because he was the highest on their big board. We didn’t know if Jakob would be back, LMA was in his last year, Luka looked like a bust at the time. Meanwhile we already had two wings we were developing in Lonnie and Keldon.
It could theoretically be argued the Spurs need a great player at any position and theoretically can use an upgrade at multiple spots. Having said that their pick is 12, not in the top 3... so there’s risk there... of missing out mostly on the good one.

[Degoat]

It could theoretically be argued the Spurs need a great player at any position and theoretically can use an upgrade at multiple spots. Having said that their pick is 12, not in the top 3... so there’s risk there... of missing out mostly on the good one.

Exactly that’s kinda what I’m meaning to say! Lol I think the spurs will select the guy who could be an upgrade at any position instead of drafting based on a team need.

[Dejounte]

It could theoretically be argued the Spurs need a great player at any position and theoretically can use an upgrade at multiple spots. Having said that their pick is 12, not in the top 3... so there’s risk there... of missing out mostly on the good one.

It's also a fact that star point guards rarely, if ever, come from the #11 to #20 range. Dominant centers don't either. Historically speaking, the "BPA" in the range where the Spurs are selecting are usually wings and forwards. The Spurs are betting against history if they select anything else otherwise.

[The Truth #6]

Which is ok because we need a forward.

[timvp]

Eff all that. The goal shouldn't be to try to get a designated shooter to make the broken perimeter players the Spurs currently have work. There's no way they should go into next year with the plan to be to run White, Murray, Johnson and Poeltl. Eh, I didn't even mention any players in the post you quoted. Fact is, one way or another, the Spurs need to add shooting -- hence Kispert in theory being a possibility. I don't care whether he's a fit with the current roster (he may or may not be depending on where Keldon and Vassell end up positionally) as much as it'd be nice that he can fit with any roster down the road if he pans out.

Best case scenario is the Spurs see someone who they think has star potential and swing for the fences. If they don't see such a player, a shooter in today's game has value ... whether that's Kispert or even Duarte or Butler.

[barakz21]

So, when is the actual draft lottery?

[timvp]

Chinook, I’d love to see the Spurs make moves with any kind of direction and purpose, but they have been very averse to it, either bc they overvalue their guys or other teams want to push their crap on them, but one thing they aren’t is opportunistic—to their detriment.

This is kind of why I don’t bother too much with scouting anymore (plus time sink)... Was Samanic a better prospect than Keldon? Has he panned out? Not yet. Maybe he will next season. He’s looked good sometimes, but not enough. Keldon has given more flashes. Anyways I leave that to the experts. I do hope they pick someone who pans out. Every season they gamble and miss will cost them years in the bottom dwellers spots.

I find it interesting that so many Spurs fans say they want the Spurs to take gambles and try to draft stars ... but then when the Spurs do it, they hate it. Samanic was an obvious swing for the fences. He was a guy who sucked in Europe but was so athletic, mobile and skilled that there was a chance that he could develop into something in a couple years. But instead of liking the pick, the same Spurs fans who cosigned on taking gambles were whining that the Spurs didn't pick old-and-ready Brandon Clarke. Fast forward two years and Samanic is still maturing and Clarke is old news as the Grizzlies 12th man -- yet Spurs fans in general would still rather have Clarke even though he has shown himself to be a low ceiling 6-foot-7 center :lol

[ace3g]

So, when is the actual draft lottery?



June 21-27: NBA Draft Combine
June 22: NBA Draft Lottery
July 19: Deadline for an early entry player to withdraw from the NBA Draft (5 p.m. ET)
July 29: 2021 NBA Draft

[SpurPadre]

I'd take a top 5 pick over getting to the play-in and losing the game. By the time the Spurs draft at 12, most of the players we want will be gone.

The bad luck keeps striking this franchise. It really sucks that we're in worse shape than we were last offseason but still come away with a worse pick and money to spend on a shitty free agent class. Just can't catch a fucking break smh.

[Chinook]

Eh, I didn't even mention any players in the post you quoted. Fact is, one way or another, the Spurs need to add shooting -- hence Kispert in theory being a possibility. I don't care whether he's a fit with the current roster (he may or may not be depending on where Keldon and Vassell end up positionally) as much as it'd be nice that he can fit with any roster down the road if he pans out.

Best case scenario is the Spurs see someone who they think has star potential and swing for the fences. If they don't see such a player, a shooter in today's game has value ... whether that's Kispert or even Duarte or Butler.

Again, my point wasn't anti-Kispert. It's that it's not the responsibility of a rookie to space the floor for guys who shouldn't've developed to need that kind of spacing. The Spurs can and should use some of their roster flexibility to get shooting. But if they don't combine that with a reduction of non-shooting, they will still find themselves going long stretches of minutes playing four or five poor/reluctant shooters at the same time. That Pop feels White/Murray/Johnson is a responsible perimeter set-up has more of an effect on spacing than getting a bench player who's a good player. When Pop did have a great shooter, he glued him to the starting lineup in an attempt to make Murray/DeRozan/Lyles/Aldridge work. Basically doing the same thing with Kispert instead isn't an answer. The Spurs should basically commit to the idea that they aren't going to play more than three (or better yet two) of Murray, White, Johnson and Poeltl in the starting lineup. If they do that, then they can go into the draft free to evaluate the prospects based on their actual ability and not worry about replacing Forbes.


I find it interesting that so many Spurs fans say they want the Spurs to take gambles and try to draft stars ... but then when the Spurs do it, they hate it. Samanic was an obvious swing for the fences. He was a guy who sucked in Europe but was so athletic, mobile and skilled that there was a chance that he could develop into something in a couple years. But instead of liking the pick, the same Spurs fans who cosigned on taking gambles were whining that the Spurs didn't pick old-and-ready Brandon Clarke. Fast forward two years and Samanic is still maturing and Clarke is old news as the Grizzlies 12th man -- yet Spurs fans in general would still rather have Clarke even though he has shown himself to be a low ceiling 6-foot-7 center :lol

I don't think the Spurs should "take gambles and try to draft stars". At least, I don't think that a guy potentially being a star means it's okay to be raw. I sort of take issue with the suggestion that a future star has to be raw and basically unplayable before being drafted. Guys like George and Leonard had role-player floors with NBA niches. Not that the early results suggest it, but for all we know, Vassell with put things together and progress from three-and-D guy to legit offensive option as well. I don't regret the Spurs not drafting Pokusevski. I still like Clarke, and I still think he'd be a fine player for the team to have right now. That he's not getting minutes on a Memphis team that just straight cut Gorgui Dieng doesn't really change my mind. Memphis at least has a stacked big-man rotation and is a playoff team. The Spurs don't have a lot of PF options and still didn't find a way to have Samanic in their rotation until they basically started tanking.

That's why I'm not against Kispert (that and because he actually seems to have more offensive upside than his role-player projection would assume). Elite role-players not only help stars develop, but they also have a ton of trade value. If the Spurs are going to eventually do the three-step process to build themselves into a contender, getting a solid core of young/cheap players with a lot of trade value is essential. The Spurs are going to have to get used to trading their players, because they aren't going to draft a star trio and hold onto them long enough to have an OKC-like rise.

[Dejounte]

The bad luck keeps striking this franchise. It really sucks that we're in worse shape than we were last offseason but still come away with a worse pick and money to spend on a shitty free agent class. Just can't catch a fucking break smh.

https://img-comment-fun.9cache.com/media/ad5jwjd/a9ELB2rd_700w_0.jpg

[keithington1]

Greg Brown is exactly what the Spurs need if he could shoot and create a little more. Would allow the Spurs to play big switchable defense. And he would matchup against the bigger scorers. He reminds me of Jaylon Brown and Jerami Grant. 33 percent from three and 71 from the free throw line is promising for a 6’9” super athletic 3/4.

[Chinook]

Chinook, I’d love to see the Spurs make moves with any kind of direction and purpose, but they have been very averse to it, either bc they overvalue their guys or other teams want to push their crap on them, but one thing they aren’t is opportunistic—to their detriment.

This is kind of why I don’t bother too much with scouting anymore (plus time sink)... Was Samanic a better prospect than Keldon? Has he panned out? Not yet. Maybe he will next season. He’s looked good sometimes, but not enough. Keldon has given more flashes. Anyways I leave that to the experts. I do hope they pick someone who pans out. Every season they gamble and miss will cost them years in the bottom dwellers spots.

I "scout" in the NBA more than I do in the NFL, but yeah, I am basically content to take a wait-and-see approach for most circumstances. I eventually pick guys and end up being right or wrong on them, but I rarely feel really strongly opposed to anyone whom they draft. I don't know that I'd say SA overvalues their players as much as they place a high tariff on exporting them (the term doesn't really fit there, but I think it conveys the idea). Like they hate forcing their guys to move so much that they mark up the prices on them. Teams basically have to offer huge overpays to get them to move a guy like Hill if the guy doesn't ask out. They have to get over that. It's okay to treat players like humans and even family. But they're not fixtures of the franchise. The Spurs don't have a core right now, and they have to cycle through players in order to find that core. They can't just change out the bottom of their roster. They'll have to be willing to get some new starters and key bench players as well. They don't have to become like the Hinkie Sixers when it comes to how ruthlessly they deal guys. But they have to constantly think about which few players make the most sense to hold onto and then be willing to attack opportunity to advance their long-term position with the rest of the roster.

In that regard, I really do think making a deal with Murray to GS makes the most sense for both sides. DJM would be a perfect fit between Steph and Klay, and the Spurs could eat Wiggins' salary to add value. The Warriors get a young piece and save money. Murray goes to a potential contender. The Spurs get another lotto pick and clears up their guard rotation for a guy like Bouknight or whatever.

[SpurPadre]

https://img-comment-fun.9cache.com/media/ad5jwjd/a9ELB2rd_700w_0.jpg

So one can't vent here anymore? Like you did earlier? No one talked shit about you doing that.

[timvp]

Again, my point wasn't anti-Kispert. It's that it's not the responsibility of a rookie to space the floor for guys who shouldn't've developed to need that kind of spacing. The Spurs can and should use some of their roster flexibility to get shooting. But if they don't combine that with a reduction of non-shooting, they will still find themselves going long stretches of minutes playing four or five poor/reluctant shooters at the same time. That Pop feels White/Murray/Johnson is a responsible perimeter set-up has more of an effect on spacing than getting a bench player who's a good player. When Pop did have a great shooter, he glued him to the starting lineup in an attempt to make Murray/DeRozan/Lyles/Aldridge work. Basically doing the same thing with Kispert instead isn't an answer. The Spurs should basically commit to the idea that they aren't going to play more than three (or better yet two) of Murray, White, Johnson and Poeltl in the starting lineup. If they do that, then they can go into the draft free to evaluate the prospects based on their actual ability and not worry about replacing Forbes.

I think these are two separate issues that don't really overlap. Especially because one is a front office decision (who to draft) and one is a coaching issue (who to play). If you draft Kispert, you do so thinking he's something close to the best player available. I don't think you draft Kispert with some ultimatum that players X, Y and Z can't play together or whatever

I think we're in agreement that the current roster shouldn't be considered during the draft. For example, I wouldn't want the Spurs to avoid picking a point guard because they think that position is set. But if we're in agreement with that, it should cut the other way too. You don't avoid drafting players because of some hypothetical scenario where it leads Pop to making a bad lineup decision at some point down the line -- especially because Pop may not even be the coach.

P.S.

I think you need to update what you think of White and shooting threes. He wasn't a reluctant shooter this season. In fact, he basically reached Forbesian levels of letting three-pointers fly. Murray, Johnson, DeRozan, Poeltl ... yeah, those guys are an issue when it comes to shooting. I don't think White deserves to be in that group anymore.


I don't think the Spurs should "take gambles and try to draft stars". At least, I don't think that a guy potentially being a star means it's okay to be raw. I sort of take issue with the suggestion that a future star has to be raw and basically unplayable before being drafted. Guys like George and Leonard had role-player floors with NBA niches.Man, that'd really narrow things down. Finding stars is hard enough ... finding stars that aren't raw and have role player floors is like pinhead in a haystack hard. By that definition, the Spurs wouldn't have been able to draft Giannis, Booker, Jokic, Gobert, Siakam, Ginobili, Parker, etc because all those guys had floors lower than role player level.

[Mr. Body]

The bad luck keeps striking this franchise. It really sucks that we're in worse shape than we were last offseason but still come away with a worse pick and money to spend on a shitty free agent class. Just can't catch a fucking break smh.

Jesus Christ, jump off a cliff already.

[Degoat]

There’s so many prospects I keep talking myself into lol I guess that’s good tho means will get somebody good

[Em-City]

It's also a fact that star point guards rarely, if ever, come from the #11 to #20 range. Dominant centers don't either. Historically speaking, the "BPA" in the range where the Spurs are selecting are usually wings and forwards. The Spurs are betting against history if they select anything else otherwise.
Kinda true, it's super hard to find all star level talent at those positions outside the top 10.

There have been some stars, borderline stars, and potential stars though:
2014 Lavine 13, Capela 25
2015 booker 13, Holmes 37
2016 siakam 17, brogdon 36
2017 adebayo 14, John Collins 19 Jarrett Allen 22
2018 timelord 27

[Dejounte]

Kinda true, it's super hard to find all star level talent at those positions outside the top 10.

There have been some stars, borderline stars, and potential stars though:
2014 Lavine 13, Capela 25
2015 booker 13, Holmes 37
2016 siakam 17, brogdon 36
2017 adebayo 14, John Collins 19 Jarrett Allen 22
2018 timelord 27

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290287&p=10507464&viewfull=1#post10507464

https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=290287&p=10507476&viewfull=1#post10507476

No point guards or C's was my point.

[The Truth #6]

It's interesting. So much of this debate isn't simply who to pick, because it raises underlying questions about how the FO should operate. While I think the team should sell high on Murray, or at least entertain it, for example, I feel pretty confident they won't, and so I've grown to accept that, and this leads to acceptance of the Spurs Way, which leads me to thinking they probably would pick Kispert to help Murray operate better.

When we were competing for titles, meaning we had Duncan, it seemed easier to reach for players, but we also were picking at the end of the draft, so not sure if that's the same as reaching when it's a second round pick. I suppose I'm ok with drafting high ceiling types in theory but I don't think of the Spurs as gambling. And yet, they picked Luka. This draft will be interesting on many levels. IF Pop is leaving, perhaps it will signal a more defined philosophy moving forward. We'll see.

[Chinook]

I think these are two separate issues that don't really overlap. Especially because one is a front office decision (who to draft) and one is a coaching issue (who to play). If you draft Kispert, you do so thinking he's something close to the best player available. I don't think you draft Kispert with some ultimatum that players X, Y and Z can't play together or whatever

I think we're in agreement that the current roster shouldn't be considered during the draft. For example, I wouldn't want the Spurs to avoid picking a point guard because they think that position is set. But if we're in agreement with that, it should cut the other way too. You don't avoid drafting players because of some hypothetical scenario where it leads Pop to making a bad lineup decision at some point down the line -- especially because Pop may not even be the coach.

My disagreement comes from the idea that the Spurs "need shooting". That belief can only come from looking at the current roster. If we're just talking about the abstract, then there are plenty of places where shooting can come from as mentioned in this thread, finding shooters isn't even that hard. The only difficulty comes from getting them minutes and covering for their weaknesses. Practically, though, the team is going to have to find a way to convert their non-shooters into shooters, not just add shooting to their existing core. I think we agree on that, except...


P.S.

I think you need to update what you think of White and shooting threes. He wasn't a reluctant shooter this season. In fact, he basically reached Forbesian levels of letting three-pointers fly. Murray, Johnson, DeRozan, Poeltl ... yeah, those guys are an issue when it comes to shooting. I don't think White deserves to be in that group anymore.

I honestly think he does. First, I don't actually think that those players can move out of that group. Both Murray and Johnson will shoot threes more next season and hopefully at a higher percentage. The issue with them is likely the same issue as with White. White is basically shooting to make him and Murray work. Yes, he had stretches where his off-dribble three was cooking too. But the kind of shots White was taking does nothing to take the offense from its iso, "hydra" track. White is basically doing subsistence shooting right now, shooting enough for him to justify being on the floor and to open up his game. If Murray and Johnson get to that level, sure, it'll be somewhat harder to help. But the offense will still lack structure and dynamism because they don't have off-ball threats. They'd just have guys who will shoot if they're open enough but will otherwise stand around waiting for their turn to drive into the teeth of the defense.

White's a really good player and definitely my choice for player to most firmly keep in the starting lineup if he can stay healthy, though.


Man, that'd really narrow things down. Finding stars is hard enough ... finding stars that aren't raw and have role player floors is like pinhead in a haystack hard. By that definition, the Spurs wouldn't have been able to draft Giannis, Booker, Jokic, Gobert, Siakam, Ginobili, Parker, etc because all those guys had floors lower than role player level.

First, guys who are drafted at the end of the first or the second are way different than guys drafted at the top of the draft. I doubt a single Spurs fan would've had an issue with Samanic being drafted at 29. Seriously just Booker on your list was drafted in the lottery, and he clearly had a legit floor as a shooter anyway.

Still, perhaps I didn't state the position clearly enough. It's not that guys can't be raw. It's that saying, "Who cares, if it's only a one-percent chance? If he pans out, he'll be a star", can't be used as the main justification to draft guys who don't even look like clear NBA players. Like most draftees are going to be somewhat raw. It's normal to develop. But most stars don't actually take years to show they're any good, and being an NBA-caliber role-player from day one doesn't mean that a player has less upside than a skinny, raw player who can't dribble. Your list highlights that there are multiple ways to develop into a star. There's no need to overemphasize a certain archetype.

Plus hunting for stars through the draft comes from the archaic notion of "building through the draft". While you can certainly draft a star, you're more likely to acquire them through other means, and getting good players via the draft helps with that through multiple avenues, as I've mentioned before.

[dbestpro]

My choice last year was Saddiq Bey cause he was a three point shooter. NBA success in this day and age is 70% about the three. Pick the best three point shooter that is on the board at 12 and you can’t go wrong.

[SpursStar]

But again, skilled shooters can be found nearly anywhere. You don’t have to spend a lottery pick on a guy that can just shoot with shaky defense. For example, Forbes was undrafted. You can also try your luck by looking to bring in someone through FA without necessarily overpaying.

[Dejounte]

This is the guy we should draft at #12:

https://twitter.com/ClutchPointsApp/status/1397536060096253954

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

^ Kidd-Gilchrist special :lol

[SAGirl]

I find it interesting that so many Spurs fans say they want the Spurs to take gambles and try to draft stars ... but then when the Spurs do it, they hate it. Samanic was an obvious swing for the fences. He was a guy who sucked in Europe but was so athletic, mobile and skilled that there was a chance that he could develop into something in a couple years. But instead of liking the pick, the same Spurs fans who cosigned on taking gambles were whining that the Spurs didn't pick old-and-ready Brandon Clarke. Fast forward two years and Samanic is still maturing and Clarke is old news as the Grizzlies 12th man -- yet Spurs fans in general would still rather have Clarke even though he has shown himself to be a low ceiling 6-foot-7 center :lol
I had a lengthy response but it got erased when I was multitasking. lol

No matter the short version is that I hope they don’t gamble so wide that they end up with another Samanic, or Bruno Caboclo (which Samanic is close to being... he’s on pace at least, “2 years away from being 2 years away”.). The further he is from being a rotation player, the more he looks like Bruno, and the more unlikely it seems that he’s going to pan out. He needs to become a useful rotation player by this next season or he can start to be considered a wide miss. However, I can understand the gamble on his athleticism and unusual skill. That year the Spurs had two swipes at the cart and a good chance to come out of that draft with at least one good player.

This summer there’s going to be useful players where the Spurs pick. Gambles as wide as Livio Jean Charles are better left for later in the draft because most of the time all you find is a LJC in gambles like that. Having said that, sometimes the best player available is just a piece of the puzzle, not the main part of the puzzle. Like if they find a Klay Thompson, he’s not the main guy in a championship team, but he’s a significant part of it and worth taking.

[SAGirl]

Again, my point wasn't anti-Kispert. It's that it's not the responsibility of a rookie to space the floor for guys who shouldn't've developed to need that kind of spacing. The Spurs can and should use some of their roster flexibility to get shooting. But if they don't combine that with a reduction of non-shooting, they will still find themselves going long stretches of minutes playing four or five poor/reluctant shooters at the same time. That Pop feels White/Murray/Johnson is a responsible perimeter set-up has more of an effect on spacing than getting a bench player who's a good player. When Pop did have a great shooter, he glued him to the starting lineup in an attempt to make Murray/DeRozan/Lyles/Aldridge work. Basically doing the same thing with Kispert instead isn't an answer. The Spurs should basically commit to the idea that they aren't going to play more than three (or better yet two) of Murray, White, Johnson and Poeltl in the starting lineup. If they do that, then they can go into the draft free to evaluate the prospects based on their actual ability and not worry about replacing Forbes.



I don't think the Spurs should "take gambles and try to draft stars". At least, I don't think that a guy potentially being a star means it's okay to be raw. I sort of take issue with the suggestion that a future star has to be raw and basically unplayable before being drafted. Guys like George and Leonard had role-player floors with NBA niches. Not that the early results suggest it, but for all we know, Vassell with put things together and progress from three-and-D guy to legit offensive option as well. I don't regret the Spurs not drafting Pokusevski. I still like Clarke, and I still think he'd be a fine player for the team to have right now. That he's not getting minutes on a Memphis team that just straight cut Gorgui Dieng doesn't really change my mind. Memphis at least has a stacked big-man rotation and is a playoff team. The Spurs don't have a lot of PF options and still didn't find a way to have Samanic in their rotation until they basically started tanking.

That's why I'm not against Kispert (that and because he actually seems to have more offensive upside than his role-player projection would assume). Elite role-players not only help stars develop, but they also have a ton of trade value. If the Spurs are going to eventually do the three-step process to build themselves into a contender, getting a solid core of young/cheap players with a lot of trade value is essential. The Spurs are going to have to get used to trading their players, because they aren't going to draft a star trio and hold onto them long enough to have an OKC-like rise.

I was going to mention something about Clarke but it got deleted and then decided not to reference it later bc its simply fans saving face for the FO, which they are allowed to do if they want.

But my point was going to be very similar to yours with regard to Clarke. I still think he’s a useful player but a team that has a healthy JV and JJJ, will have most of their big men minutes covered in the postseason. On top of that Kyle has produced well for them at the 4, effectively taking any minutes away that JJJ isn’t playing at that spot. If it wasn’t bc JJJ is so raw and makes so many mistakes when he plays the 5, Tillman wouldn’t really see minutes either. Tillman playing is more to cover up for JJJ being an unfinished project who can’t play the 5 without fouling at this point in his career. However, I think that if needed for whatever reason (foul problems most likely) Clarke can come in and will play well. As you said, even Dieng wasn’t getting played in that team.

And then, there’s the point you made about how the Spurs don’t really have that many big men. They lost minutes from LMA and went away from Lyles (or he got injured...with the ankle disease that wouldn’t heal hmmm?) and they still couldn’t find minutes for Samanic except for rest games, blowouts, etc. that’s an absolute lack of confidence that he could contribute this year.

It says that he doesn’t do anything that Keldon already does better than him, or that he could play well next to Gay and do a better job than the undrafted Eubanks was doing there. In fact going out and getting Dieng is more damning bc he’s a better shooter and rim protector than Samanic is and fulfilled a niche as a spacing shooting big.

Luka as it is, doesn’t have a niche. I can see he runs like a deer and can make plays off the bounce, maybe he’s more of a tall wing, but he can’t shoot as of right now and if he’s a tall wing the shorter wings the Spurs have are better. He’s going to have to earn his minutes and he hasn’t.

I will say though that pointing these things out is not an indication that one isn’t rooting for that guy to get better, but one has to take the rose colored glasses off when evaluating his season. I hope he puts the work in summer league and thereafter to come back better next year.

You made an interesting point about not blowing picks on wide misses when good players are already there and how the Spurs will have to get on opportunistic trades to get their guy if they have to. Fingers crossed.

[PrimeMinister]

Luka will stick next year not as a scorer or anything like that- but as a defense first glass cleaner providing height at a position of need. Clearly fills the role of the modern 4- switchable defensively, can guard in the post and help at the rim if the center is out of position. Spot up and hit a 3 when necessary. The face up game doesn’t even need to be there yet with the ball handlers already on the team.

His minutes were sparse, but the tools he has defensively and instincts on the glass will be quickly repeatable and very valuable within the context of this roster. He showed more between gleague and even just the knicks game than Bruno showed his entire career.

scoring will take a while. But he has an immediate role with skills he already has and I’m surprised to see some of the more usually brilliant minds of spurs talk not seeing that.

[SAGirl]

Luka will stick next year not as a scorer or anything like that- but as a defense first glass cleaner providing height at a position of need. Clearly fills the role of the modern 4- switchable defensively, can guard in the post and help at the rim if the center is out of position. Spot up and hit a 3 when necessary. The face up game doesn’t even need to be there yet with the ball handlers already on the team.

His minutes were sparse, but the tools he has defensively and instincts on the glass will be quickly repeatable and very valuable within the context of this roster. He showed more between gleague and even just the knicks game than Bruno showed his entire career.

scoring will take a while. But he has an immediate role with skills he already has and I’m surprised to see some of the more usually brilliant minds of spurs talk not seeing that.
I am hoping to see that next season (would love to see him in summer league as well, that wrist injury was unfortunate).

Also my comparison to Bruno is about how far away the player is from becoming the ideal version the FO had of him when drafted. Bruno had some impressive physical tools and even one season where he looked like he might have finally put it together as a role player in the league (never mind the Durant or Greek freak comparison—-in terms of body measurements—-just as a rotation player) and yet he didn’t stick in the league, but even if he came back and was signed to a team (he’s still young enough) after getting more experience in a different league, that doesn’t take away the fact that it took him over 6-7 years to figure out how to be a role player. I don’t think Samanic is that far away but he also has to show it on the court at this point.

[rjv]

I had a lengthy response but it got erased when I was multitasking. lol

No matter the short version is that I hope they don’t gamble so wide that they end up with another Samanic, or Bruno Caboclo (which Samanic is close to being... he’s on pace at least, “2 years away from being 2 years away”.). The further he is from being a rotation player, the more he looks like Bruno, and the more unlikely it seems that he’s going to pan out. He needs to become a useful rotation player by this next season or he can start to be considered a wide miss. However, I can understand the gamble on his athleticism and unusual skill. That year the Spurs had two swipes at the cart and a good chance to come out of that draft with at least one good player.

This summer there’s going to be useful players where the Spurs pick. Gambles as wide as Livio Jean Charles are better left for later in the draft because most of the time all you find is a LJC in gambles like that. Having said that, sometimes the best player available is just a piece of the puzzle, not the main part of the puzzle. Like if they find a Klay Thompson, he’s not the main guy in a championship team, but he’s a significant part of it and worth taking.

samanic is a highly skilled player and a rarity. you don't come across 6'10" athletes who have his skill set that often so you take the chance. KA never fully hit his potential here and is now having his coming out party-and he had two years of college at UCLA when the spurs drafted him so KA was far more polished and coached up than luka was when drafted. also, KA never had to deal with a shortened season in which the summer league and training camps were essentially cancelled. so i agree with timvp here: luka is still maturing whereas some of the safer picks from that same draft have hit their very pedestrian caps.

[The Truth #6]

I have optimistic hopes for Luka next season. But that shouldn’t factor in who we draft, for example, I am fine with Wagner if that’s who they go with, if he’s available.

[SAGirl]

samanic is a highly skilled player and a rarity. you don't come across 6'10" athletes who have his skill set that often so you take the chance. KA never fully hit his potential here and is now having his coming out party-and he had two years of college at UCLA when the spurs drafted him so KA was far more polished and coached up than luka was when drafted. also, KA never had to deal with a shortened season in which the summer league and training camps were essentially cancelled. so i agree with timvp here: luka is still maturing whereas some of the safer picks from that same draft have hit their very pedestrian caps.
I am going to completely ignore the KA point bc it’s discussed somewhere else at length and it’s irrelevant for Luka.

I hope Luka becomes a useful player, but that’s still to be seen. That’s part of the point. Also, if it wasn’t bc the team drafted Keldon that season, they wouldn’t have much to show for it right up to this point. I think that bc they had two opportunities to draft a good player that year the gamble was fair and hitting on one out of two first draft picks are acceptable odds. I am going to be bold and say even if Luka doesn’t pan out at all it doesn’t hurt them because Keldon panned out for the team.

But I want them to draft a guy who can contribute and show something next season, even if the guy still needs to get better, like many rookies do.

[jjspur]

I am going to completely ignore the KA point bc it’s discussed somewhere else at length and it’s irrelevant for Luka.

I hope Luka becomes a useful player, but that’s still to be seen. That’s part of the point. Also, if it wasn’t bc the team drafted Keldon that season, they wouldn’t have much to show for it right up to this point. I think that bc they had two opportunities to draft a good player that year the gamble was fair and hitting on one out of two first draft picks are acceptable odds. I am going to be bold and say even if Luka doesn’t pan out at all it doesn’t hurt them because Keldon panned out for the team.


But I want them to draft a guy who can contribute and show something next season, even if the guy still needs to get better, like many rookies do.

Totally agree with your points about Luka. In Kyle Anderson's last two years with the spurs, he became a valuable role player, just not valuable enough to justify his new salary and so he was not matched. Luka needs to improve significantly to become a rotation player or he may have the same fate as Kyle Anderson an unappreciated and unmatched player who's future may be somewhere else.

[rjv]

Luka will stick next year not as a scorer or anything like that- but as a defense first glass cleaner providing height at a position of need. Clearly fills the role of the modern 4- switchable defensively, can guard in the post and help at the rim if the center is out of position. Spot up and hit a 3 when necessary. The face up game doesn’t even need to be there yet with the ball handlers already on the team.

His minutes were sparse, but the tools he has defensively and instincts on the glass will be quickly repeatable and very valuable within the context of this roster. He showed more between gleague and even just the knicks game than Bruno showed his entire career.

scoring will take a while. But he has an immediate role with skills he already has and I’m surprised to see some of the more usually brilliant minds of spurs talk not seeing that.

i don't see how some posters seem to ignore what luka showed on the defensive side of the ball.

[Dejounte]

i don't see how some posters seem to ignore what luka showed on the defensive side of the ball.

People are using Pop's conservative ways of handing minutes to the youth as an end-all-be-all indication of their future. With that said, I think it's next year that will be most telling about Luka's future. As I've noted in the past, there's no reason for him to be hyped up if there was no plan for him. But the fact is, he is.

[timvp]

My disagreement comes from the idea that the Spurs "need shooting".

Bruh.


First, I don't actually think that those players can move out of that group. Both Murray and Johnson will shoot threes more next season and hopefully at a higher percentage. The issue with them is likely the same issue as with White. White is basically shooting to make him and Murray work. Yes, he had stretches where his off-dribble three was cooking too. But the kind of shots White was taking does nothing to take the offense from its iso, "hydra" track. White is basically doing subsistence shooting right now, shooting enough for him to justify being on the floor and to open up his game. If Murray and Johnson get to that level, sure, it'll be somewhat harder to help. But the offense will still lack structure and dynamism because they don't have off-ball threats. They'd just have guys who will shoot if they're open enough but will otherwise stand around waiting for their turn to drive into the teeth of the defense.

So, once you've labeled someone a non-three-point shooter, it's impossible for them to become a three-point shooter even if their three-point shooting volume increases to an elite level? Interesting.

Tbh, though, this is a discussion for another thread. Obviously, you don't like the roster composition or the offense. That's fine, tbh, I would rather discuss in another thread.


Seriously just Booker on your list was drafted in the lottery, and he clearly had a legit floor as a shooter anyway.

Still, perhaps I didn't state the position clearly enough. It's not that guys can't be raw. It's that saying, "Who cares, if it's only a one-percent chance? If he pans out, he'll be a star", can't be used as the main justification to draft guys who don't even look like clear NBA players.

Booker averaged ten points in college. He didn't have much of a floor at all.

But, anyways, the perfect example is Giannis. Would you want the Spurs to take Giannis-type gambles? That's what the Spurs will need to figure out (and it'd be interesting to see if you think they should take such gambles). Giannis was the 15th pick, the first pick outside of the lottery, so he's a perfect example of the type of player the Spurs will need to ponder taking. Going into the draft, he was basically a blank slate with raw physical tools. His floor was obviously really low.

San Antonio will need to decide on whether low-floor, high-ceiling players are worth gambling on at 12 because this draft has a ton of those players. I'd put Keon Johnson, Jalen Johnson, Scottie Barnes, Josh Giddey, Apleren Sengun, Sharife Cooper and Kai Jones in that category off the top of my head. These players could all either become All-Stars or be out of the league in three years.

Sure, it's preferable to draft potential All-Stars with role player floors ... but this draft doesn't have that. Moses Moody might be the only player who fits into that category.

[ace3g]

Spurs need 3 point shooting because it gives you more options in PnR as well as makes the defense have to make a decision how to guard the PnR.

[Chinook]

Bruh.

You're saying that because you're looking at the current roster. Right now, I'm not sure they "have" anything. So we don't actually know what they "need" yet. Last year, you agreed with the idea that the Spurs didn't have holes because that implied there was some structure which already existed that needed to be shored up. A year didn't change that. I'd argue it just got worse. The Spurs don't need shooting if we're talking about the future when they eventually draft a potential star. They can easily get that from other sources. They only "need" it in the context of having no shooters right now. They can and should draft a relative non-shooter if that is BPA and move the established guys in order to create room for other shooters. You don't actually have to prioritize the skill. If Ben Simmons 2.0 were available with the Spurs pick, you take him and trade guys like Murray 10/10 times.

Now if you said, "The Spurs need to change their philosophy and make sure that everyone they draft has to be a good shooter", then I can accept that as something that isn't worrying after the fit with the current roster. I think you could mean it that way, but you still mention his fit with the current roster, which adds confusion if you didn't intend to take that into account.


So, once you've labeled someone a non-three-point shooter, it's impossible for them to become a three-point shooter even if their three-point shooting volume increases to an elite level? Interesting.

Tbh, though, this is a discussion for another thread. Obviously, you don't like the roster composition or the offense. That's fine, tbh, I would rather discuss in another thread.

And we'll have plenty of time this off-season to talk about that. I won't keep pulling this thread in that direction, at least not unless there's some reason to later on. I don't think we disagree that a) the Spurs should draft BPA and b) BPA might well be a role-player. We can agree to agree on that and agree to table most of the other stuff. Post lotto when the range of possible first-rounders shrinks, I'll likely want to revisit restructuring the roster as part of addressing the draft.


Booker averaged ten points in college. He didn't have much of a floor at all.

So I think Booker showed that he was a good shooter in college. Just like how good rebounding is something that translates, good shooting tends to be. Even if they don't break out, good shooters are valuable on all sorts of teams. He had a decent floor on that alone.


But, anyways, the perfect example is Giannis. Would you want the Spurs to take Giannis-type gambles? That's what the Spurs will need to figure out (and it'd be interesting to see if you think they should take such gambles). Giannis was the 15th pick, the first pick outside of the lottery, so he's a perfect example of the type of player the Spurs will need to ponder taking. Going into the draft, he was basically a blank slate with raw physical tools. His floor was obviously really low.

San Antonio will need to decide on whether low-floor, high-ceiling players are worth gambling on at 12 because this draft has a ton of those players. I'd put Keon Johnson, Jalen Johnson, Scottie Barnes, Josh Giddey, Apleren Sengun, Sharife Cooper and Kai Jones in that category off the top of my head. These players could all either become All-Stars or be out of the league in three years.

Sure, it's preferable to draft potential All-Stars with role player floors ... but this draft doesn't have that. Moses Moody might be the only player who fits into that category.

It's important to note that terms like floor and ceiling are only really framing devices to help us understand possible development paths that in reality have a lot of dimensions and motion to them. In addition to how good a player might potentially be is how likely is it for a player to get there and how quickly can they progress. With that in mind, we have no idea how likely teams think it is for them to coach up prospects we think of as being raw. Maybe Milwaukee's staff thought they had a clear path for Giannis and that they were basically sure he could at least be a defensive dynamo (which was a more viable role to play in 2015). Very little in player development is an actual gamble. Leonard fixing his shot wasn't a chance thing. I don't disagree with the spirit of what you're saying when it comes to the Spurs taking calculated risks. But when it comes what we as fans, or at least I as an individual fan, want, I don't support the idea that the Spurs should reach for the stars with their picks, because I don't think the upside of those picks is really worth the opportunity cost once you factor in the realities on the NBA.

[JeffDuncan]

Spurs need 3 point shooting because it gives you more options in PnR as well as makes the defense have to make a decision how to guard the PnR.

And also, ahem, it scores points. Which is kinda important to winning games.

[rjv]

i think that what complicates matters is the not fully knowing where the spurs stand with this current roster. to say that walker, murray, kj and luka are not panning out is a bit premature. i'd even add d white to that mix. this past year, this team had no summer league, no real off-season development and no legit training camp. then the team had to deal with one of the most brutal second-half schedules one could muster up while changing line-ups as often as the kardashians go through NBA players. i'll wait until next season before i pass judgement on what this team has in terms of its future.

[TD 21]

A lot of the comments about Kispert are valid and they obviously shouldn't be fixated on drafting him, but the difference between him and someone like Forbes is though they're both relatively athletically deficient, he's not a physical liability and shooters with size are not dime a dozen and don't come cheap. Look no further than Bertans and Harris last off season and Robinson and McDermott this off season.

I'm usually a swing for the fences type, especially in their predicament, but you also can't force it. The gambles have to be calculated. Every player with impressive physical tools and a modicum of ball skills isn't worth spending a lottery pick on.

Also, high ceiling doesn't automatically equate to superstar or star. Sticking with Kispert, if he's the next Harris or close, that's a highly valuable role player either to the team or possibly as a part of a package for a star eventually.

[R. DeMurre]

I think you get into potentially dangerous territory when you have the philosophy that shooters can be found anywhere. That's the issue the Spurs had last year-- they had shooters in Forbes, Belinelli, Lyles, and Mills-- problem was they generally weren't good at anything else and were ultimately liabilities rather than advantages. Same can be said for defenders-- Kidd-Gilchrist and Hollis-Jefferson are good defenders, but aren't really helping their teams because their other shortcomings are too prominent. Milwaukee can use a guy like Forbes as their #8 guy thanks primarily to Giannis, but Giannis also has Holiday, Middleton, and Lopez-- guys who aren't one dimensional.

[BacktoBasics]

Some here, including myself see a considerable development in Luka. Yeah it’s frustrating that we didn’t see more of him or have a staff that opened him up and let him sink or swim but I believe bringing him along slowly will give us a more true perspective of what he really is.

Sometimes patience and incremental progress helps players from becoming a bust before they can even develop a legitimate skill set.

[SAGirl]

I think you get into potentially dangerous territory when you have the philosophy that shooters can be found anywhere. That's the issue the Spurs had last year-- they had shooters in Forbes, Belinelli, Lyles, and Mills-- problem was they generally weren't good at anything else and were ultimately liabilities rather than advantages. Same can be said for defenders-- Kidd-Gilchrist and Hollis-Jefferson are good defenders, but aren't really helping their teams because their other shortcomings are too prominent. Milwaukee can use a guy like Forbes as their #8 guy thanks primarily to Giannis, but Giannis also has Holiday, Middleton, and Lopez-- guys who aren't one dimensional.
Great post. 10/10 summarizing the predicament of some fan opinions.

[PhantomDashCam]

I think you get into potentially dangerous territory when you have the philosophy that shooters can be found anywhere. That's the issue the Spurs had last year-- they had shooters in Forbes, Belinelli, Lyles, and Mills-- problem was they generally weren't good at anything else and were ultimately liabilities rather than advantages. Same can be said for defenders-- Kidd-Gilchrist and Hollis-Jefferson are good defenders, but aren't really helping their teams because their other shortcomings are too prominent. Milwaukee can use a guy like Forbes as their #8 guy thanks primarily to Giannis, but Giannis also has Holiday, Middleton, and Lopez-- guys who aren't one dimensional.

I'm with you on this too. Wonder what your thoughts are of Tre Mann in the draft? Are you buying that he's an elite shooter?

I loved this piece about him from The Stepien btw:

https://www.thestepien.com/2021/05/12/compensation-kings-redefining-athleticism-with-mann-and-springer/


...Mann lacks the blistering speed that some guys are lucky enough to possess, but he compensates and consistently creates advantages with his handle, pace and one-on-one movement skills. Along with his handle, Mann’s calling card is his shooting, with an emphasis on self created looks.

According to barttorvik, Mann drained 40.2% of his threes while just 31.9% of them were assisted. For reference, that unassisted rate is historically off the charts and practically unheard of. In my database last year, which included 100 “draftable” prospects, Jordan Ford had the lowest assisted rate at 44.4%. Mann checks in 12 percentage points lower!
Trae Young was the prospect I could find that had a lower assisted rate (26.3%) than Mann, but he wasn’t as efficient. The first rule of evaluating shooting is that not all percentages are created equally.

On the surface, shooting 40% on his volume (4.7 attempts per game) is very impressive and would likely point towards an optimistic shooting outlook. Then, when you consider the load and average degree of difficulty on each of these attempts, it starts to become feasible that Mann might just be an elite shooter and shot maker. The Florida native has parking lot range, and aside from that being a valuable microskill, it also helps open up the rest of his game.

[SpursStar]

I think you get into potentially dangerous territory when you have the philosophy that shooters can be found anywhere. That's the issue the Spurs had last year-- they had shooters in Forbes, Belinelli, Lyles, and Mills-- problem was they generally weren't good at anything else and were ultimately liabilities rather than advantages. Same can be said for defenders-- Kidd-Gilchrist and Hollis-Jefferson are good defenders, but aren't really helping their teams because their other shortcomings are too prominent. Milwaukee can use a guy like Forbes as their #8 guy thanks primarily to Giannis, but Giannis also has Holiday, Middleton, and Lopez-- guys who aren't one dimensional.

Which reinforces the point why Kispert probably isn’t the best choice here with the current roster. He is just a shooter with size and not much else at this point. Guys like these are successful on rosters that have the overall talent to hide their deficiencies, the Spurs do not have that right now. The Spurs were expecting Forbes to play 30+ minutes, his role in Milwaukee is to just shoot, and the Bucks have the talent defensively to cover him. It’s exactly why he’s having a much better season.

All of those shooters were essentially asked to do way too much because the Spurs didn’t have the talent for them to just focus on their role.

[CGD]

Just grab the best talent available, forget position at this point. Also, it’s finally time to start consolidating the young pups for better assets (ideally to move up in this draft).

And in free agency be a dumping ground for a year to get picks.

[exstatic]

Just grab the best talent available, forget position at this point. Also, it’s finally time to start consolidating the young pups for better assets (ideally to move up in this draft).

And in free agency be a dumping ground for a year to get picks.

We have 6 first rounders from the past 5 drafts, plus #12 this year.
DJ $14.2
White $15.1
Lonnie
Luka
Keldon
Devin
2021#12

If you look at those first two extension year 1 amounts, and do some math, it’s obvious that not everyone is getting a nice extension. That tends to cause friction. It would be easier to move a few of them spread over a couple of years, and Lonnie is at the top of my list.

[cjw]

We have 6 first rounders from the past 5 drafts, plus #12 this year.
DJ $14.2
White $15.1
Lonnie
Luka
Keldon
Devin
2021#12

If you look at those first two extension year 1 amounts, and do some math, it’s obvious that not everyone is getting a nice extension. That tends to cause friction. It would be easier to move a few of them spread over a couple of years, and Lonnie is at the top of my list.

Where do you think Lonnie plus #12 gets you to in the first round?

What does Lonnie on his own get you in terms of a pick?

[jjspur]

Where do you think Lonnie plus #12 gets you to in the first round?

What does Lonnie on his own get you in terms of a pick?

Might as well ask what do any of the above guys get you ? DJ & White are proven commodities who got sizeable raises because of their skills. Keldon & Devin have obvious worthwhile skills which other NBA teams surely have already noticed. Lonnie brings it sometimes so he has "it" just not consistently and Luka doesn't play enough to truly show what ever skills he has. What do these guys bring in terms of a pick. Hard to say because we would be the sellers trying to get something of equal or better value but we all know how the spurs do in trades.

[buttsR4rebounding]

i don't see how some posters seem to ignore what luka showed on the defensive side of the ball.

They are just taking their queue from Pop. When he played meaningful minutes he was one of the best players on the floor. He was a +/- monster. The team performed better when he was on the court. Everyone but Pop could see it. It’s not about earning minutes it’s about earning minutes and Pop recognizing it. Unfortunately, the 2 biggest lost opportunities this year were the lack of playing time for Luka and to a lesser degree playing time for Vassel. Pop acted like it was more important to give Mills and Gay PT to make sure they get paid well this off season. Their well-being was more important than the team’s development.

[B1gduff]

here's a list of guys i thin will be in play for us at 12. There isn't any order, its random, so it does not mean that first guy is better than the second..etc.

1. Giddey, watching Giddey, he reminds me alot of Derrick white, in that he can do a bit of everything, he's not going to be elite in one thing, but will spread the score sheet. Concern for me personlly is the lack in Wing span and athletism.
2. Sengun, he has the tools and skill sets to be a solid player. i don't think he'll ever develop into a first option but could into a second option. My issue with him, from what I've seen is that is skill set kind of resembles Luka. I feel as if there somewhat similar player. Both rely on a Spin move, both can pass, similar paint game at times. The only think Sengun, lack is the speed and Athletism that Luka has.
3. Kai Jones, very athletic big men, that can score, while be a high level defender, he super thin and need rare. To tell you the truth, i haven't really watched him that much, other than a few clips.
4.Garuba, know for his long wingspan, which will be his ticket to be a solid player. personally I feel like he has one the biggest upsides in the draft outside of the top 5. the big problem, he's is really raw offensively. Like I said, defense is his calling card, and i can say that he might be the best defender in this class. he has the ability to guard 2-4 with lock-down defense, with his size, quickness, it's something that we lack. Over he has as much upside as anyone else in this draft, but he's going to be a projected, and he's one of my favorite players in the draft.
5. Wagner, similar to Giddey, but better 3pt shooting and ability to be a better defender. similar concerns to Giddey as well.
6. Williams, is a former 5-star recruit, with big upside as a two-way player. he has solid footwork for a guy his sizing. solid court vision. There is concern with his handle and his lack of strength. Which i understand. But if I'm spur I would invite him to the draft conbine, and work with him to see what kind of play he could be. I feel like out of all the player, he is the one that will benefit him the most, expecially with the bad offseason with covid, standford being a mess, and two deaths in his family do to covid.

[SpursDynasty85]

We have 6 first rounders from the past 5 drafts, plus #12 this year.
DJ $14.2
White $15.1
Lonnie
Luka
Keldon
Devin
2021#12

If you look at those first two extension year 1 amounts, and do some math, it’s obvious that not everyone is getting a nice extension. That tends to cause friction. It would be easier to move a few of them spread over a couple of years, and Lonnie is at the top of my list.

With Dieng as a possible resign and Eubanks solidifying a roster spot for cheap, I can see Spurs moving Poeltl + (One of the gaurds/wings) for another first rounder or another developing prospect from another team already on a roster. In this scenario, Spurs are probably looking really hard at Segun who screams Spurs-like pick. If Spurs don't trade anyone, it would be hard to pass on Garuba too. Moody, Wagner are probably gone. NBA teams will almost always draft for size and Spurs need to follow this year as they've already accumulated too many guards.

[CGD]

Where do you think Lonnie plus #12 gets you to in the first round?

What does Lonnie on his own get you in terms of a pick?

Because of the narrative around how awesome this draft is (we'll see if true), i dont think any of our guys get you into the top 6. Then the question is, if they CAN land you 7-11 is it really worth the jump? I don't know if it makes sense there, unless they love someone. So something like young guy/12 to ORL for 8/Bamba.

For me, the first thing needs to be to figure out the White/DJ thing. If White didnt get hurt so much, I'd say the choice is easy but here we are.

[The Truth #6]

With Dieng as a possible resign and Eubanks solidifying a roster spot for cheap, I can see Spurs moving Poeltl + (One of the gaurds/wings) for another first rounder or another developing prospect from another team already on a roster. In this scenario, Spurs are probably looking really hard at Segun who screams Spurs-like pick. If Spurs don't trade anyone, it would be hard to pass on Garuba too. Moody, Wagner are probably gone. NBA teams will almost always draft for size and Spurs need to follow this year as they've already accumulated too many guards.

I agree with your thoughts. I'm not sure they will move on from Yak, though, but I think it makes sense to some degree because unless they surprisingly draft Giddey to feed him the ball, we are going to ride or die with Dejounte it looks like, and Yak is sort of MIA on offfense, though I'll admit Dejounte did minimally better in the last month of feeding him the ball.

Garuba. Yeah, I'm higher on him then other posters are. I see a potential DPOY candidate who makes good decisions. His knock is basically a lack of a jumper, that's what it comes down to, but I think his form is actually better than Giddey.

Edit: A big man rotation of Dieng, Eubanks, Garuba, Luka is sort of interesting. Lots of complementary skills: shooting, defense, mobility, switchability, can play big or small. But with Garbua, I get it, is there enough offensive upside to draft him that highly?

[Kurik]

Would you trade Lonnie and the second round pick for a late first round pick? Is his value enough to get that? I don’t think Lonnie moves the team up from 12 at all.

[The Truth #6]

Would you trade Lonnie and the second round pick for a late first round pick? Is his value enough to get that? I don’t think Lonnie moves the team up from 12 at all.

Honestly, yes. If that could get us Chris Duarte or Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, then I'd jump at that. I may be overselling those two guys and underselling Lonnie, but his defense took such a nose dive I'd rather have a solid multi-faceted two way player with a lower ceiling but a much higher floor. There are other players with more upside that obviously should be considered, but those are the two that for some reason into my mind.

[CGD]

Would you trade Lonnie and the second round pick for a late first round pick? Is his value enough to get that? I don’t think Lonnie moves the team up from 12 at all.

Lonnie is WAY better than a late first in this or any draft.
Honestly, if he can one day gain consistency, he's probably the most talented of the young guys.

[The Truth #6]

Lonnie is WAY better than a late first in this or any draft.
Honestly, if he can one day gain consistency, he's probably the most talented of the young guys.

But I think it's more than consistency. His defense is fairly bad now. The year before Pop would yell at him to play defense and it sort of worked, but I'm afraid he's seeing himself as some sort of microwave player, yet lacks confidence. I'm not loving that combination, yet I do love Lonnie. I think I'm just taking the glasses off. I said previously that he should be given next year as I assumed last year was weird for him now that he is facing his prior trauma, but maybe I'm overstating that. He's a confusing player. He could improve, but definitely needs a new coach. If Pop returns next year, I'd trade him.

[K...]

Lonnie is WAY better than a late first in this or any draft.
Honestly, if he can one day gain consistency, he's probably the most talented of the young guys.

It's not about that. It's whether we want to pay for lonnie when he's such a wild card. A late first is salary controlled. Lonnie is for one season. He may cost less or more than Murray and isn't a primary ballhandler. Maybe next season reveals a breakout, but if the scenario is that lonnie isn't worth extendending, would you want an extra pick, or to chance restricted free agency?

[CGD]

It's not about that. It's whether we want to pay for lonnie when he's such a wild card. A late first is salary controlled. Lonnie is for one season. He may cost less or more than Murray and isn't a primary ballhandler. Maybe next season reveals a breakout, but if the scenario is that lonnie isn't worth extendending, would you want an extra pick, or to chance restricted free agency?

Fair points. I'm in the "give him the QO and see how it pans out" camp. If he exceeds expectation then pay the man, since they'll still have the rights to match -- a "good problem" to have. If he flops or stays at replacement level then you're more secure in moving on. The reality is spurs are gonna suck for a while, and the difference between a late 1st and early 2nd (where they'd be picking when they suck) isnt that big in the future.

[rankingtear]

Lonnie is WAY better than a late first in this or any draft.
Honestly, if he can one day gain consistency, he's probably the most talented of the young guys.

A better prospect but not in production. Quickley blows his production out of the water. If Spurs draft Bouknight that maybe the end for Lonnie, way better defender for that non playmaking athletic guard role. Well most players are better than Lonnie defensively.

[exstatic]

Because of the narrative around how awesome this draft is (we'll see if true), i dont think any of our guys get you into the top 6. Then the question is, if they CAN land you 7-11 is it really worth the jump? I don't know if it makes sense there, unless they love someone. So something like young guy/12 to ORL for 8/Bamba.

For me, the first thing needs to be to figure out the White/DJ thing. If White didnt get hurt so much, I'd say the choice is easy but here we are.

There’s no such narrative. Outside of three very good, and two other pretty good prospects at the top, it’s pretty dicey.

[Russ]

There’s no such narrative. Outside of three very good, and two other pretty good prospects at the top, it’s pretty dicey.

Interesting. Like you, I have a top tier of five and a top-top tier of three within that. I wonder if they're the same.

Tier 1 would be Mobley, Cunningham and Green.

Tier 1A would be Suggs and Kuminga.

After that it looks like a big mess to me -- just don't see this as a great draft.

[exstatic]

Interesting. Like you, I have a top tier of five and a top-top tier of three within that. I wonder if they're the same.

Tier 1 would be Mobley, Cunningham and Green.

Tier 1A would be Suggs and Kuminga.

After that it looks like a big mess to me -- just don't see this as a great draft.
That’s kind of a consensus across most people’s boards. Some would exchange Green and Suggs. Not to say no one else could break out, just that right now, those 3+2 stand out as the best prospects.

[duncan2150]

I agree with your thoughts. I'm not sure they will move on from Yak, though, but I think it makes sense to some degree because unless they surprisingly draft Giddey to feed him the ball, we are going to ride or die with Dejounte it looks like, and Yak is sort of MIA on offfense, though I'll admit Dejounte did minimally better in the last month of feeding him the ball.

Garuba. Yeah, I'm higher on him then other posters are. I see a potential DPOY candidate who makes good decisions. His knock is basically a lack of a jumper, that's what it comes down to, but I think his form is actually better than Giddey.

Edit: A big man rotation of Dieng, Eubanks, Garuba, Luka is sort of interesting. Lots of complementary skills: shooting, defense, mobility, switchability, can play big or small. But with Garbua, I get it, is there enough offensive upside to draft him that highly?


I think Garuba is my wild card and my fourth man after Sengun, Moody and Giddey.

Imo he's way better than we think, playing in Real, Euroleague. He's a little bit undersized but really active and i think the upside is here as he starts to shoot the 3 better and he is a really good presence in the paint.

[rjv]

I think Garuba is my wild card and my fourth man after Sengun, Moody and Giddey.

Imo he's way better than we think, playing in Real, Euroleague. He's a little bit undersized but really active and i think the upside is here as he starts to shoot the 3 better and he is a really good presence in the paint.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2021/05/possible-lottery-pick-usman-garuba-enters-2021-draft.html

[Degoat]

I’m a big fan of Usman too, if we drafted him I’d thrilled but there are a couple guys I’d prefer too

[bluebellmaniac]

3 days until the coin flip for possible draft position

32 days until the Lottery

69 days until the draft

26 days until the Lottery

63 days until the Draft

[R. DeMurre]

I'm with you on this too. Wonder what your thoughts are of Tre Mann in the draft? Are you buying that he's an elite shooter?


Love his handle-- crossovers & stepbacks look like they're as natural as walking to him. It's scary to think what he could do shooting-percentage-wise sharing the court with D White or Dejounte, where he actually got assisted looks.

[Degoat]

He won’t ever be at this level this but Tre Mann gives me some Dame dolla vibes

[PhantomDashCam]

He won’t ever be at this level this but Tre Mann gives me some Dame dolla vibes

I definitely see shades of Dame and Trae Young although I know how unfair that is to all three players.

[R. DeMurre]

Apparently Mann has a shorter wingspan, but he was measured two years ago at 6'2" and is supposedly 6'5" now... He's only 20, so he might not be done growing-- a 6'6" PG with a 6'6" wingspan would be fine.

[exstatic]

I think Garuba is my wild card and my fourth man after Sengun, Moody and Giddey.

Imo he's way better than we think, playing in Real, Euroleague. He's a little bit undersized but really active and i think the upside is here as he starts to shoot the 3 better and he is a really good presence in the paint.

At 6’8”, he has to have perimeter skills, and I don’t just mean shooting. He has to develop dribble/pass/shoot skills, or he’ll be Bo Outlaw. If he were 6’10”, he’d be a shoo in top 6-8 pick.

[SpursDynasty85]

At 6’8”, he has to have perimeter skills, and I don’t just mean shooting. He has to develop dribble/pass/shoot skills, or he’ll be Bo Outlaw. If he were 6’10”, he’d be a shoo in top 6-8 pick.

wingspan is more important than height. He can guard most centers and 3’s. Should at least develop a rim running game and can partner next to a Dieng type center.

[pad300]

Undersized center with big defensive rep (and weak offensive game) coming from ACB ... Anybody remember Bismack Biyombo?

[GAustex]

I have a question for the experts:
Does Greg Brown last to the second round where Spurs take a flyer on that knucklehead?

[exstatic]

wingspan is more important than height. He can guard most centers and 3’s. Should at least develop a rim running game and can partner next to a Dieng type center.

Not if his only skill are for a 5. 6’8”is way too small to be a center. A 6’8” rim runner is irrelevant in today’s game. Hell, bigger ones aren’t even valuable. Houston salary dumped Clint Capela, one of the best rim runners in the league a couple of years ago. Got played off the floor in the playoffs.

[exstatic]

Undersized center with big defensive rep (and weak offensive game0 coming from ACB ... Anybody remember Bismack Biyombo?

Horrifyingly.

[BackHome]

I have a question for the experts:
Does Greg Brown last to the second round where Spurs take a flyer on that knucklehead?

I am not an expert but I see Brown as late first early second round pick.

[SpursDynasty85]

Not if his only skill are for a 5. 6’8”is way too small to be a center. A 6’8” rim runner is irrelevant in today’s game. Hell, bigger ones aren’t even valuable. Houston salary dumped Clint Capela, one of the best rim runners in the league a couple of years ago. Got played off the floor in the playoffs.

He is more Draymond and Pascal than he is Bismack. He can defend guards and has shown flashes of playmaking and high Bball iq. Size wise, he is exactly who the Spurs are looking for. He has potential to be a stud at the 4. Capela and Biyombo can’t guard anyone lower than a 4 so those are bad examples.

[Dejounte]

Moody is a preferred pick of mines but he's been posting a lot of LA shit lately, do we really want a player who is in love with another city?

[The Truth #6]

At 6’8”, he has to have perimeter skills, and I don’t just mean shooting. He has to develop dribble/pass/shoot skills, or he’ll be Bo Outlaw. If he were 6’10”, he’d be a shoo in top 6-8 pick.

He has some dribble skills, some passing smarts, but yeah, the Bo Outlaw comparison makes you have reservation. Honestly, everyone 10-20 has reservations for me. Which makes me wonder if Chris Duarte is this year’s Desmond Bane? Meaning, there’s a quality player with few flaws, but projects as a 10 year role player? And should he be getting way more attention?

[Russ]

I definitely see shades of Dame and Trae Young although I know how unfair that is to all three players.

Mann looks pretty impressive on the highlight reels (admittedly a low bar). He looks to have a feel for the game and he's aggressive, he goes to the hoop with floaters but he can also shoot, a great combo. He's smooth, clever and efficient (vs explosive).


Apparently Mann has a shorter wingspan, but he was measured two years ago at 6'2" and is supposedly 6'5" now... He's only 20, so he might not be done growing-- a 6'6" PG with a 6'6" wingspan would be fine.

Is wingspan even all that important for a point guard? For example, what was Tony Parker's wingspan?

I'm not sure you can take him at 12 but has has been moving up (as high as 10 in one mock).

[PrimeMinister]

Wingspan on the perimeter can be a factor if the player is extraordinarily lengthy for their height, like DJ. Surprises ball handlers with their ability to pick off dribbles seemingly out of reach and intercept passes.

Timing and instincts are more important though.

Dejounte Murray with Derrick Whites anticipation and positioning would be a perennial DPOY candidate. Probably pretty similar defender to thybulle, tbh. Almost the perfect defender of guards.

[EricB]

We have 6 first rounders from the past 5 drafts, plus #12 this year.
DJ $14.2
White $15.1
Lonnie
Luka
Keldon
Devin
2021#12

If you look at those first two extension year 1 amounts, and do some math, it’s obvious that not everyone is getting a nice extension. That tends to cause friction. It would be easier to move a few of them spread over a couple of years, and Lonnie is at the top of my list.


with what Lonnie has shown, plus the 12 should be enough to get into the top, 8?

might be worth it.

moody is my first choice. Moody screams Bradley Beal

[Kurik]

Moody is a preferred pick of mines but he's been posting a lot of LA shit lately, do we really want a player who is in love with another city?

Pretty sure every draft pick has a favorite team and none of them will be the Spurs. I like the fact that he went to a school like Arkansas at least, he had some offers from bigger basketball schools in better cities.

[Dejounte]

Wagner earned his spot on the team with stellar grades (a perfect 4.0 GPA), and a pursuit of an Organizational Studies program that accepts only around 25 percent of Michigan students who apply to the program. He was also named an Academic All-Big Ten selection in 2021 and is a two-time U-M Academic Achievement honoree. In 2020, he was honored as the U-M Academic Success Program's Male Rookie of the Year.

https://twitter.com/_ZachShaw/status/1398331446113226753?s=19

[rjv]

both the score's and CBS's latest mock drafts have the spurs picking isaiah jackson.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31526712/kentucky-freshman-isaiah-jackson-espn-no-11-prospect-keep-name-nba-draft

[Silverheart80]

The more I look at Vrenz Bleijenbergh, the more I'm intrigued.

20 years old. 6'10" playmaker from Belgium. He has skill as a long, mobile offensive initiator and passer that the Spurs don't have right now, except for Derrick who's not long, but is our best initiator. Derrick has chronic injury questions though. Bleijenbergh is a solid shooter from deep. He's got possibilities as a point forward, and I think that's what this current Spurs equation tangibly lacks, along with 3-point consistency. He's the player I keep wishing Luka will be.

I don't think the Spurs can contend with Dejounte as a traditional starting point guard. Derrick is the starter, with DJ as a much better 6th man than a traditional starting point guard. I can see Vrenz as a point forward initiating offense with solid defensive switchability to cover multiple positions.

I think he'll be drafted long before the Spurs pick at #41, where he would be a no-brainer. Does he warrant being drafted at #12 though? I'm not sure yet. (Maybe trade down to get him + another pick?) But given the shortcomings of the Spurs' current guard collection, his skillset has my attention.

[Dejounte]

both the score's and CBS's latest mock drafts have the spurs picking isaiah jackson.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/31526712/kentucky-freshman-isaiah-jackson-espn-no-11-prospect-keep-name-nba-draft

Last year, mock drafts had Aaron Nesmith and Saddiq Bey to the Spurs.

[rjv]

Last year, mock drafts had Aaron Nesmith and Saddiq Bey to the Spurs.

i think this was facilitated by jackson's announcement that he is staying in the draft based on his getting feedback that he will be a lottery pick. this then fuels the speculation.

i also thought that the 11-21 picks on the score's latest mock were very interesting.

https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/2175761

[Seventyniner]

Last year, mock drafts had Aaron Nesmith and Saddiq Bey to the Spurs.

Did they have Vassell in the top 10?

[exstatic]

i think this was facilitated by jackson's announcement that he is staying in the draft based on his getting feedback that he will be a lottery pick. this then fuels the speculation.

i also thought that the 11-21 picks on the score's latest mock were very interesting.

https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/2175761

Isaiah Jackson would be a very Sacto-like pick. They always pick UK bigs, WCS, and Boogie.

[Russ]

Isaiah Jackson would be a very Sacto-like pick. They always pick UK bigs, WCS, and Boogie.

Those guys had way more offensive potential than Jackson.

The Spurs need a versatile big. Jackson is a big.

A higher-end version of Poeltl? He shoots free throws better but he'll never be a shooter. How does that move the needle?

Jackson reminds me a bit of that high-flying Lob-city guy from A&M with the Clippers.

[Sugus]

Those guys had way more offensive potential than Jackson.

The Spurs need a versatile big. Jackson is a big.

A higher-end version of Poeltl? He shoots free throws better but he'll never be a shooter. How does that move the needle?

Jackson reminds me a bit of that high-flying Lob-city guy from A&M with the Clippers.

Higher-end Poeltl? Hard pass then, tbqh. You only replace a serviceable big like Jakob, playing in a low-importance position in the modern game, with a game-changing archetype kind of player. I'd be all for it if it was a KAT, JJJ type of prospect, but a "better FT shooting" version of Poeltl that'll have to spend years learning the system, defense, and just developing before even being serviceable is a waste of a lottery pick, not to mention a bad ROI.

Spurs have way bigger holes to fill, IMO.

[Robz4000]

Wagner earned his spot on the team with stellar grades (a perfect 4.0 GPA), and a pursuit of an Organizational Studies program that accepts only around 25 percent of Michigan students who apply to the program. He was also named an Academic All-Big Ten selection in 2021 and is a two-time U-M Academic Achievement honoree. In 2020, he was honored as the U-M Academic Success Program's Male Rookie of the Year.

https://twitter.com/_ZachShaw/status/1398331446113226753?s=19

Honestly might take Wagner just for the high IQ he'd bring to the team. It might be the most important thing the team has lacked the last few years other than top-tier talent.

[TD 21]

I doubt they'll go guard (expecting Sengun first, Kispert second), but I'm warming to the idea of Mann, particularly in a trade back scenario. Reminds me of Russell or a taller Garland. Sure, he'll probably never put much pressure on the rim and is likely to be a minus defender, but he has a modern skillset and the rough outline of an offensive "engine".

[Dejounte]

Honestly might take Wagner just for the high IQ he'd bring to the team. It might be the most important thing the team has lacked the last few years other than top-tier talent.

Agreed. Team makes head-scratching decisions too often. Funny enough, most of it comes from the vets. (that play where they left a man wide open for a 3 and three people were in the paint with Dedmon and Dedmon STILL outrebounded them all because noone would box him out and stupid fucking Mills fouled him for an and1 is still burned in my mind)

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

The more I look at Vrenz Bleijenbergh, the more I'm intrigued.

20 years old. 6'10" playmaker from Belgium. He has skill as a long, mobile offensive initiator and passer that the Spurs don't have right now, except for Derrick who's not long, but is our best initiator. Derrick has chronic injury questions though. Bleijenbergh is a solid shooter from deep. He's got possibilities as a point forward, and I think that's what this current Spurs equation tangibly lacks, along with 3-point consistency. He's the player I keep wishing Luka will be.

I don't think the Spurs can contend with Dejounte as a traditional starting point guard. Derrick is the starter, with DJ as a much better 6th man than a traditional starting point guard. I can see Vrenz as a point forward initiating offense with solid defensive switchability to cover multiple positions.

I think he'll be drafted long before the Spurs pick at #41, where he would be a no-brainer. Does he warrant being drafted at #12 though? I'm not sure yet. (Maybe trade down to get him + another pick?) But given the shortcomings of the Spurs' current guard collection, his skillset has my attention.

it would be great if we could get him in the 2nd round or some how moved back into the low 1st and grabbed him. I liked this guy early on due to watching an interview he did with NBA DRAFT JUNKIES YouTube. They are the same folks who do draft dummies on Twitter. He looks like he could be a solid overall NBA player in the right situation.

[SPURt]

The more I look at Vrenz Bleijenbergh, the more I'm intrigued.

20 years old. 6'10" playmaker from Belgium. He has skill as a long, mobile offensive initiator and passer that the Spurs don't have right now, except for Derrick who's not long, but is our best initiator. Derrick has chronic injury questions though. Bleijenbergh is a solid shooter from deep. He's got possibilities as a point forward, and I think that's what this current Spurs equation tangibly lacks, along with 3-point consistency. He's the player I keep wishing Luka will be.

I don't think the Spurs can contend with Dejounte as a traditional starting point guard. Derrick is the starter, with DJ as a much better 6th man than a traditional starting point guard. I can see Vrenz as a point forward initiating offense with solid defensive switchability to cover multiple positions.

I think he'll be drafted long before the Spurs pick at #41, where he would be a no-brainer. Does he warrant being drafted at #12 though? I'm not sure yet. (Maybe trade down to get him + another pick?) But given the shortcomings of the Spurs' current guard collection, his skillset has my attention.
I wish he’d last to the Spurs second pick… but he’s gonna go in the first round. If by some miracle he’s there in the 2nd round, we should all be ecstatic and make sacrifices to our God - Tim Duncan

[Collins21]

Agreed. Team makes head-scratching decisions too often. Funny enough, most of it comes from the vets. (that play where they left a man wide open for a 3 and three people were in the paint with Dedmon and Dedmon STILL outrebounded them all because noone would box him out and stupid fucking Mills fouled him for an and1 is still burned in my mind)

How about DJ always leaving 3 point shooters open in 2 point games. The whole team has a problem with low IQ play. It's just that the young players don't have the talent to make up for it.

[The Truth #6]

I doubt they'll go guard (expecting Sengun first, Kispert second), but I'm warming to the idea of Mann, particularly in a trade back scenario. Reminds me of Russell or a taller Garland. Sure, he'll probably never put much pressure on the rim and is likely to be a minus defender, but he has a modern skillset and the rough outline of an offensive "engine".

Agree on the analysis. If they strike out on their first choices, then that’s a good idea. Or Duarte who I think would contribute immediately and will probably contribute more to winning than Kispert in the end.

[Thomas82]

Is Ibou Badji in this year's draft? If so, I would like to have him if possible.

[pad300]

Is Ibou Badji in this year's draft? If so, I would like to have him if possible.

If he is, he will withdraw. Not enough name recognition to expect a first...

[keithington1]

Murray White Johnson Samanic Poeltl
Jones Walker Vassell (Franz Wagner) Dieng
Eubanks KBD

Would this team be any good ?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Murray White Johnson Samanic Poeltl
Jones Walker Vassell (Franz Wagner) Dieng
Eubanks KBD

Would this team be any good ?

Good lottery odds. A lot of ping pong balls.

[venitian navigator]

Good lottery odds. A lot of ping pong balls.

Frankly idk...its debatable the contribution of our veterans. For how much they were important on offense (but mostly limiting it to a 2 point offense thanks to DDR) they were totally limiting our defense (Mills and DDR were two of the worst defensive players and Gay, while numbers seems to tell the opposite, was not that good at the eye test, at least). that said, the ten players above cames along with a sort of 40/50 millions in cap space...aka anough, if there is an opportunity, to sign, in a good FA market, a first and a second option...with such two players the team would look not that shabby...and probably play offs bound.

[Thomas82]

If he is, he will withdraw. Not enough name recognition to expect a first...

If he stays in, hopefully he'll slide down to us. I remember seeing a couple of mock drafts with us taking him months ago.

[exstatic]

Frankly idk...its debatable the contribution of our veterans. For how much they were important on offense (but mostly limiting it to a 2 point offense thanks to DDR) they were totally limiting our defense (Mills and DDR were two of the worst defensive players and Gay, while numbers seems to tell the opposite, was not that good at the eye test, at least). that said, the ten players above cames along with a sort of 40/50 millions in cap space...aka anough, if there is an opportunity, to sign, in a good FA market, a first and a second option...with such two players the team would look not that shabby...and probably play offs bound.

Rudy would be the only one I’d want back.

I just remember the first Suns game (March?), right before White sprained his ankle. DD and DJ were rested, and we beat their asses, like 20+. Their announcers actually said they wished DD were playing, because they’d then know how to defend us.

[Dejounte]

Murray White Johnson Samanic Poeltl
Jones Walker Vassell (Franz Wagner) Dieng
Eubanks KBD

Would this team be any good ?

You eliminate the black holes on this team, give more opportunities for 3s, and have way better defense. All of the main reasons why the Spurs gave up so many losses (instead of the simplistic "no talent derp"). 5th seed, IMO.

P.S. oh and no player out due to COVID + no game every other day helps, too.

[PrimeMinister]

Murray White Johnson Samanic Poeltl
Jones Walker Vassell (Franz Wagner) Dieng
Eubanks KBD

Would this team be any good ?

It would be better than last years team by a good margin.

Box score watchers just don’t get it.

[rankingtear]

Murray White Johnson Samanic Poeltl
Jones Walker Vassell (Franz Wagner) Dieng
Eubanks KBD

Would this team be any good ?

Candidate for worse offense in the NBA. Defense would be good maybe top 5.

[mo7888]

Murray White Johnson Samanic Poeltl
Jones Walker Vassell (Franz Wagner) Dieng
Eubanks KBD

Would this team be any good ?

I believe so...qualified by an expectation of letting the vets go and using cap space to bring in shooting in the form of a couple players like ... McDermott, THJ, OPJ, etc

[buttsR4rebounding]

Murray White Johnson Samanic Poeltl
Jones Walker Vassell (Franz Wagner) Dieng
Eubanks KBD

Would this team be any good ?

I would love to see what this team could do. I wonder if KJ can cover opposing 3s, but if he can this is an incredible defensive line up. If the beautiful game returned they might score enough to make some noise.

[paperboy77]

Murray White Johnson Samanic Poeltl
Jones Walker Vassell (Franz Wagner) Dieng
Eubanks KBD

Would this team be any good ?

For a few games then they’d get figured out. There’s no real go-to guy in there. That group would also have hell with the refs too.

31-51

[rankingtear]

Spurs like players with high defensive upside even Lonnie was known as a two-way prospect at the time of the draft because of his wingspan, screen navigation and footspeed. Hard to see them picking Tre Mann, Alperen Sengun, Corey Kispert. Bouknight and Keon have sneaky good defensive floor. I think they are betting on future two-way players who maybe can create their own shot. In a way that is the same as how the Raptors draft.

[Ocotillo]

Anybody see that tweet(I think Bleacher Report was the source) speculating about Indiana shipping us Sabonis and they get Lonnie, Jakob, 2022 1st rounder and 2024 1st rounder? I did not read the original so I am assuming it was somebody speculating about what would be a good trade. I have to admit, I am intrigued.

[Ocotillo]

Here it is https://twitter.com/TheTyJager/status/1398452818839748615

[PrimeMinister]

Anybody see that tweet(I think Bleacher Report was the source) speculating about Indiana shipping us Sabonis and they get Lonnie, Jakob, 2022 1st rounder and 2024 1st rounder? I did not read the original so I am assuming it was somebody speculating about what would be a good trade. I have to admit, I am intrigued.

25, 3 more years under contract.

It wasn’t a terrible scenario from a spurs fan perspective. The draft capital could hurt if the team doesn’t shake out to be competitive. Jakob is a very tradeable asset but the pacers wouldn’t need a specialist type player if they are bottoming out, so would look to flip him elsewhere for more picks. So essentially they are taking a flier on Lonnie, picks, and the potential for more picks.

Of all the “I have nothing better to write about” trade scenarios I’ve seen on social media, that was on its face one of the better ones.

Murray/White/Keldon/Samanic/Sabonis - fill out the bench in FA and in the draft. Not a bad young team by any stretch. But they have to pan out or the future is fucked.

[Degoat]

I don’t think the pacers would ever do that trade

[Ocotillo]

I take your point about if it doesn't work out, we are screwed. As much as I enjoy the "who we gonna draft" discussions every year, we are to a point where do we need more under development guys now? I am rooting for IV to break out but we have a lot of youth at the guard position and shipping some of it out to get a good big or 4 is where things are at now. In the above trade, we still are drafting this year.

[Ocotillo]

I don’t think the pacers would ever do that trade

They can probably get more assets somewhere else. Lonnie is a roll of the dice too at this point.

[PrimeMinister]

I don’t think the pacers would ever do that trade

Im blown away by the thought they would keep Turner over sabonis, but that’s what the inside info seems to suggest and I watched probably 5 total pacer games last year so what do I know anyway.

Maybe they want a shot creator to pair with their rim protecting stretch 5. I’m dreaming at this point but if they stroked out and decided to pursue a sign and trade... phew.

for a small market team with no cap space- Brogdon/LeVert/Demar/Warren/Turner is not bad. Shit, in the East- that’s a 50 win team.

Problem is I don’t see Demar voluntarily signing up for Indy unless their bag is twice the size of anyone else’s.

[mo7888]

Here it is https://twitter.com/TheTyJager/status/1398452818839748615

I hate that trade honestly. I'd give lw and Poeltl and let them move Poeltl for a pick but there's noway I'd give up a 1st as well for a center shooting 32% from 3.

[TD 21]

The small market, always trying to "compete" Pacers, aren't trading a 25 year old All-Star caliber player, who seems content and is signed to a value contract for 3 more seasons, for a center who they don't need, a replacement level guard/wing and picks that would presumably have some protection (top 3?).



Spurs like players with high defensive upside even Lonnie was known as a two-way prospect at the time of the draft because of his wingspan, screen navigation and footspeed. Hard to see them picking Tre Mann, Alperen Sengun, Corey Kispert. Bouknight and Keon have sneaky good defensive floor. I think they are betting on future two-way players who maybe can create their own shot. In a way that is the same as how the Raptors draft.

Fair enough, but Bouknight has the arrest and Johnson almost certainly will not be available. That leaves Moody and maybe Williams, Butler, Springer or Duarte (they'd be considered a reach though).

Of them, I'd prefer Butler and he's probably the most Spurs like too. Malleable, high floor type. If he's not a solid fifth starter, he'll probably be a high quality third guard.

[Uriel]

Wagner earned his spot on the team with stellar grades (a perfect 4.0 GPA), and a pursuit of an Organizational Studies program that accepts only around 25 percent of Michigan students who apply to the program. He was also named an Academic All-Big Ten selection in 2021 and is a two-time U-M Academic Achievement honoree. In 2020, he was honored as the U-M Academic Success Program's Male Rookie of the Year.

https://twitter.com/_ZachShaw/status/1398331446113226753?s=19
Sounds like a Spur :tu

[Mr. Body]

The fuck is Organizational Studies.

[Dejounte]

The fuck is Organizational Studies.

Actually sounds like something super relevant to an NBA career:

Organizational studies is "the examination of how individuals construct organizational structures, processes, and practices and how these, in turn, shape social relations and create institutions that ultimately influence people".

[Dejounte]

Not sure if posted:

https://twitter.com/Shot_Quality/status/1390350003244240900?s=19

[PhantomDashCam]

One analysts take on best shooters in the draft…
Kispert, Duarte, Mitchell(?), Zegraowski also mentioned.

https://ca.nba.com/news/2021-nba-draft-who-are-the-best-shooters-in-this-years-draft-class-kispert-mitchell-duarte-mann-zegarowski/y49xw8nlceps15rpnyduasyd5 (https://ca.nba.com/news/2021-nba-draft-who-are-the-best-shooters-in-this-years-draft-class-kispert-mitchell-duarte-mann-zegarowski/y49xw8nlceps15rpnyduasyd5)


Tre Mann, Florida
Guard, 6-foot-5, 190 lbs.

Late game. Shot clock winding down. One on one. In these high-stress moments at the end of games, what kind of shot are you most likely to see? The step back.
This shot has taken over basketball, the quintessential scoring move for every guard looking to bury their opponent in the final moments of the game. The best player in the draft at this move? Tre Mann.
There is a smoothness to the way Mann plays the game as if he's gliding across the hardwood, and when it comes to creating space for a step back, he can lull defenders to sleep before exploding off his front foot, getting into his shooting motion and drilling it. Mann hit 41 percent of his step back jumpers last season (via InStat) which speaks to his touch from the outside. Overall, Mann hit 40.2 percent of his 3s last season and the high degree of difficulty for the majority of his attempts makes this percentage admirable. NBA teams who are looking for guards that can create their own shots will love what they see from Mann.

[Mr. Body]

Actually sounds like something super relevant to an NBA career:

Organizational studies is "the examination of how individuals construct organizational structures, processes, and practices and how these, in turn, shape social relations and create institutions that ultimately influence people".

Sounds like a bullshit degree for athletes.

[jjspur]

Nice stats, I guess that why I was already sold on Wagner.

[Dejounte]

Sounds like a bullshit degree for athletes.

Eh, I've met people with engineering degrees who are dumbasses.

What would you major in if you were an NBA player?

[Mr. Body]

Eh, I've met people with engineering degrees who are dumbasses.

What would you major in if you were an NBA player?

A real degree, because I'm not an idiot.

[Dejounte]

A real degree, because I'm not an idiot.

Good talk. Are you always this vague? You're really cranky tonight.

[bluebellmaniac]

I've always thought that student athletes spend so much time on their sport, they should be given an additional 2-3 years academic scholarship to help earn a real degree in business, science, etc. You can't really do it with their schedule when they play.

[BacktoBasics]

Sounds like a bullshit degree for athletes.

There’s nothing wrong with untraditional degrees geared towards helping pro athletes evolve their lives and careers after basketball.

[The Truth #6]

Organizational Studies, evidently, is typically part of business schools but can branch out into sociology, industrial psychology, and other cross-pollinations. I'm guessing people who got into this field would become "consultants", but who knows.

[BackHome]

Come on we all know Universities create some of these programs just to make it so easy anyone can get a degree but not a decent job with the degree. It would be nice that Universities would start doing what a lot of Biology departments do as to how many of there students get accepted to Medical School - so you could see up front how many people get jobs with the degree and could easily find the pay scale.

Had a good friend who told me if I ever marry someone find out how much debt they have as his soon to be wife failed to tell him she owed over 100 hundred thousand dollars from Harvard. I said well that shouldn’t be to bad she must be banking with a degree from a prestigious school like Harvard. He was like fuck no her degree was in sociology- she making 30 grand.

[Kurik]

Actually sounds like something super relevant to an NBA career:

Organizational studies is "the examination of how individuals construct organizational structures, processes, and practices and how these, in turn, shape social relations and create institutions that ultimately influence people".

Sounds like a German studying what his ancestors excelled at tbh.

[Mr. Body]

There’s nothing wrong with untraditional degrees geared towards helping pro athletes evolve their lives and careers after basketball.

It's a bullshit degree. By definition it's meaningless.

I've taken courses in organizational econ, but a whole degree in it smacks of easy A crap especially from a churn-em-out sports school like Michigan.

[buttsR4rebounding]

It's a bullshit degree. By definition it's meaningless.

I've taken courses in organizational econ, but a whole degree in it smacks of easy A crap especially from a churn-em-out sports school like Michigan.

Is the point supposed to be that Wagner’s Academic AllAmerican designation is somehow tainted? Pretty stupid if that’s the point. He was a freshman. Probably didn’t take a single course specific to his major. Even so. Lots of college athletes take that crap and a tiny number get 4.0s anyway. This is one of the dumber debates on this board.

[J_Paco]

Not sure if posted:

https://twitter.com/Shot_Quality/status/1390350003244240900?s=19

Who out of this group is 6'7" or taller?

I'll compile a list if I have to but drafting another swingman or a big wing is vital. We have enough guards and combo guards, and unless Moody falls to us, I'd hope they avoid drafting another (unless they move some ancillary guys for more draft compensation).

I know everyone is against this thinking, but the team's needs dictate it. Especially cause they can possibly plug some (short-term) gaps with their cap space.

[R. DeMurre]

A real degree, because I'm not an idiot.

I'd think if you know (or hope) that you can be a first round pick in the NBA draft (or at worst play for decent money in Europe), it might be a tad counterproductive to choose a major that's more challenging than average. Why jeopardize a career that'll pay millions to get a degree that'll get you a job that pays $75k/year?

[BacktoBasics]

It's a bullshit degree. By definition it's meaningless.

I've taken courses in organizational econ, but a whole degree in it smacks of easy A crap especially from a churn-em-out sports school like Michigan.
So fucking what. Are you really trying to play the educationally superior card? The whole landscape of higher education is bullshit. Elistist bullshit to be exact.

Nothing smacks of arrogance more than tearing away at someone else’s accomplishments to make yourself feel bigger. You should be advocating for alternative degrees that help athletes thrive post career but instead you want to attack it.

You’re a real dick.