Official San Antonio Spurs 2021 NBA Draft Discussion Thread

[longhorn]

RE: Kai Jones

All-star potential bigs usually produce big numbers in college. The ones that don't become nothing more than role players in the NBA.

Just because Kai flashed a little bit of a handle doesn't mean he'll become Giannis. Giannis is a freak athlete.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=kai-jones--anthony-davis--joel-embiid--karl-anthony-towns

With that being said, I wouldn't mind having a Nicolas Claxton-type player on this team.

Like I said in my post, in no universe am I saying or expecting Kai to have a Giannis-level ceiling. I mentioned Giannis because he is a guy who started playing basketball late and was incredibly unrefined, both his skills and body, when the Bucks drafted him. His work ethic and drive to be great allowed him to reach that hidden ceiling. Siakam is another guy who started late and continually improved.

Now, I don't know if Kai Jones' work ethic is the type necessary for him to unlock his full potential--he improved a lot from freshman to sophomore year, which is promising, but there's a lot more improvement needed.

But he's by all definitions of "freak athlete" a freak athlete if we are looking at his combination of size/athleticism/length, and the skills he flashes, albeit inconsistently.

[mo7888]

I've been watching more of Tennessee to get a better handle on Keon Johnson. I continue to like him. He's raw, needs a year in the G League and he may never pan out but he is a great athlete with star potential.

But, surprisingly, the player who caught my eye even more is Johnson's teammate Jaden Springer. I know Dejounte doesn't want to hear about a 6-foot-4 combo guard but Springer is legitimately really intriguing. IIRC, he's the youngest American in the draft. He's 6-foot-4, built like Keldon Johnson and already understands how to use that strength to his advantage. Very good footwork. Shooting stroke isn't the best but he shot 81% at the line and 43.5% on threes, so tough to complain. Defense is where he really shines. Add elite quickness to his strength and he's a terror one-on-one. Also really good team-wise.

Obviously, the Spurs don't exactly need yet another 6-foot-4 combo guard but Springer is legit. I think he has star upside at some point down the road. If his shooting turns out to be a fluke (which is possible), he could level off as a backup. But there's enough young Chauncey Billups in him that I'd be happy with the Spurs picking him at any spot after 10 or so.

As my guy TD 21 states, the Spurs don't have anyone good enough to worry about building around at this point. That's why I'd be happy with Springer even though there's no glaring need for him. Besides, he's so much younger than White that they wouldn't even really be in the same generation. Springer would be ready to roll once White is declining.



On the other side of the coin, the more I watch Scottie Barnes, the less I like. There's a sliver of hope that he figures it all out and becomes a star but there's also a really good chance that he's the next Ekpe Udoh. Udoh was billed as being able to defend every position and being such a good passer that you could ignore his offensively shortcomings. But it turned out he was such a non-factor on offense that you couldn't even put him on the court. Barnes could be in that same boat. He has really good defensive potential but I just don't see what he does on offense. Yeah, his passing looks good on the college level but, in the NBA, you have to be some sort of threat to be a good passer. Barnes' jumper looks broken, he has bad touch in the paint and he's not that amazing of an athlete. I could understand the Spurs gambling on Barnes at 14 or 15 but my expectations wouldn't be that high.

I'm not against a combo guard (if we think he has star potential) but, we are so heavy there that I'd only really be in favor of it if we move one of our current ones.

Barnes... spot on...definitely boom or bust but the only boom I see is his athleticism.

[exstatic]

Tankathon has Scotty going #7 to Sacto, so, bust.

[Dejounte]

But, surprisingly, the player who caught my eye even more is Johnson's teammate Jaden Springer. I know Dejounte (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=51342) doesn't want to hear about a 6-foot-4 combo guard but Springer is legitimately really intriguing. IIRC, he's the youngest American in the draft. He's 6-foot-4, built like Keldon Johnson and already understands how to use that strength to his advantage. Very good footwork. Shooting stroke isn't the best but he shot 81% at the line and 43.5% on threes, so tough to complain. Defense is where he really shines. Add elite quickness to his strength and he's a terror one-on-one. Also really good team-wise.

Obviously, the Spurs don't exactly need yet another 6-foot-4 combo guard but Springer is legit. I think he has star upside at some point down the road. If his shooting turns out to be a fluke (which is possible), he could level off as a backup. But there's enough young Chauncey Billups in him that I'd be happy with the Spurs picking him at any spot after 10 or so.


Trust me, I've learned my lesson from previous drafts. That is, never to underestimate the Spurs selecting what otherwise looks like a redundant player in the rotation. The year they drafted Keldon, I thought we didn't need another SG since he was so short. I wasn't prepared for the outcome that he is today: a freaking power forward! Last year we drafted Vassell, and I thought there was no way we need another SG when we have Lonnie who looks promising. Little did I know that Lonnie would be a disappearing act all season. However, Lonnie has stepped it up some and even still, there's absolutely room for both if Mills and/or DeMar are gone.

Saying all that pivoted my way of thinking this season. I'm not going to completely dismiss players because of what possible redundancy they could bring to their rotation; I have indeed checked out some combo guards in this draft, which includes Springer, Bouknight, and Keon. Of the three, I'm impressed with Bouknight the most, but Keon is not half bad either. Who Keon reminds me most is MarShon Brooks. He has excellent footwork, but his 3-point shooting leaves much to be desired. I'm surprised you think Springer has better (or more notable) footwork than Keon. Springer, to me, reminds me of a smaller version of Saddiq Bey. He doesn't look like a fluid athlete, and when he attempts shots near the rim it looks very mechanical. IMO, I think he can become a high quality role player, just not a star.

[TD 21]

As my guy TD 21 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17781) states, the Spurs don't have anyone good enough to worry about building around at this point. That's why I'd be happy with Springer even though there's no glaring need for him. Besides, he's so much younger than White that they wouldn't even really be in the same generation. Springer would be ready to roll once White is declining.

You've simultaneously confused your followers/my haters by going off brand.



I'm not against a combo guard (if we think he has star potential) but, we are so heavy there that I'd only really be in favor of it if we move one of our current ones.

Barnes... spot on...definitely boom or bust but the only boom I see is his athleticism.

Not as heavy as the perception. Murray and White are entrenched, but DeRozan is almost certainly a goner, Mills could be if he prefers a contender or pseudo one and though the book isn't closed on Walker IV, it's probably unlikely that he receives an extension.

Even if Mills decides to stay, he'll be entering his age 33 season. Sooner than later they're going to have to start grooming a viable replacement.

They're also just flat not good enough to stray from perceived BPA. Pick whoever that is and sort it out later.

[exstatic]

Trust me, I've learned my lesson from previous drafts. That is, never to underestimate the Spurs selecting what otherwise looks like a redundant player in the rotation. The year they drafted Keldon, I thought we didn't need another SG since he was so short. I wasn't prepared for the outcome that he is today: a freaking power forward! Last year we drafted Vassell, and I thought there was no way we need another SG when we have Lonnie who looks promising. Little did I know that Lonnie would be a disappearing act all season. However, Lonnie has stepped it up some and even still, there's absolutely room for both if Mills and/or DeMar are gone.

Saying all that pivoted my way of thinking this season. I'm not going to completely dismiss players because of what possible redundancy they could bring to their rotation; I have indeed checked out some combo guards in this draft, which includes Springer, Bouknight, and Keon. Of the three, I'm impressed with Bouknight the most, but Keon is not half bad either. Who Keon reminds me most is MarShon Brooks. He has excellent footwork, but his 3-point shooting leaves much to be desired. I'm surprised you think Springer has better (or more notable) footwork than Keon. Springer, to me, reminds me of a smaller version of Saddiq Bey. He doesn't look like a fluid athlete, and when he attempts shots near the rim it looks very mechanical. IMO, I think he can become a high quality role player, just not a star.

You couldn’t find a better comp than Marshon Brooks? He played only 200 games, and was out of the league for long stretches. He also the trivia answer to which player first confused the PHO front office when confronted by two with the same last name. They wanted Dillon, but accidentally asked for Marshon. When they were told NO for Dillon, the trade fell through. I’m more convinced after watching the last PHO game that they accidentally drafted Cameron Johnson with their lottery pick instead of Keldon. Right after the draft, they talked to one of Cam’s UNC teammates, who was genuinely shocked that he was picked in the lottery.

[Dejounte]

You couldn’t find a better comp than Marshon Brooks? He played only 200 games, and was out of the league for long stretches. He also the trivia answer to which player first confused the PHO front office when confronted by two with the same last name. They wanted Dillon, but accidentally asked for Marshon. When they were told NO for Dillon, the trade fell through. I’m more convinced after watching the last PHO game that they accidentally drafted Cameron Johnson with their lottery pick instead of Keldon. Right after the draft, they talked to one of Cam’s UNC teammates, who was genuinely shocked that he was picked in the lottery.

I had no memory of how his career went, and was strictly comparing playstyle, but thank you for that entertaining post. :lmao

I remember being fond of MarShon's footwork way back when; it was obvious that he was influenced by Kobe. I have that same fondness now when I watch clips of Keon score.

For reference:


https://youtu.be/VGoWQsv4TdQ

[The Truth #6]

https://youtu.be/HBIENrGNxmI

NBA Draft Junkies focus on international prospects.


Unicorn Alert, the year's Poku, Vrenz Bleijenbergh: https://youtu.be/ToRQmA9bBz4

I've never heard of this guy yet. Our pick would be a reach. But would love to grab him in the second round if he's still around.

Edit: I realized I don't know how to embed a youtube video. Lol. So this post will likely get passed, but this guy is intriguing. 6'11" point forward.

[duncan2150]

I've been watching more of Tennessee to get a better handle on Keon Johnson. I continue to like him. He's raw, needs a year in the G League and he may never pan out but he is a great athlete with star potential.

But, surprisingly, the player who caught my eye even more is Johnson's teammate Jaden Springer. I know Dejounte (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=51342) doesn't want to hear about a 6-foot-4 combo guard but Springer is legitimately really intriguing. IIRC, he's the youngest American in the draft. He's 6-foot-4, built like Keldon Johnson and already understands how to use that strength to his advantage. Very good footwork. Shooting stroke isn't the best but he shot 81% at the line and 43.5% on threes, so tough to complain. Defense is where he really shines. Add elite quickness to his strength and he's a terror one-on-one. Also really good team-wise.

Obviously, the Spurs don't exactly need yet another 6-foot-4 combo guard but Springer is legit. I think he has star upside at some point down the road. If his shooting turns out to be a fluke (which is possible), he could level off as a backup. But there's enough young Chauncey Billups in him that I'd be happy with the Spurs picking him at any spot after 10 or so.

As my guy TD 21 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17781) states, the Spurs don't have anyone good enough to worry about building around at this point. That's why I'd be happy with Springer even though there's no glaring need for him. Besides, he's so much younger than White that they wouldn't even really be in the same generation. Springer would be ready to roll once White is declining.



On the other side of the coin, the more I watch Scottie Barnes, the less I like. There's a sliver of hope that he figures it all out and becomes a star but there's also a really good chance that he's the next Ekpe Udoh. Udoh was billed as being able to defend every position and being such a good passer that you could ignore his offensively shortcomings. But it turned out he was such a non-factor on offense that you couldn't even put him on the court. Barnes could be in that same boat. He has really good defensive potential but I just don't see what he does on offense. Yeah, his passing looks good on the college level but, in the NBA, you have to be some sort of threat to be a good passer. Barnes' jumper looks broken, he has bad touch in the paint and he's not that amazing of an athlete. I could understand the Spurs gambling on Barnes at 14 or 15 but my expectations wouldn't be that high.


I like Johnson potential too, i did not watch a lot springer cause he's a PG.

About Barnes he is a project so i'm with you, what i see in him is the physical potential, really long legs and can defend a lot of positions plus the passing capacity. I think his passing is pretty good and he can adjust to the NBA. Offensively i have the same doubts.

[The Truth #6]

Another intriguing prospect, 6’9” point guard from Nebraska, Dalano Banton. Initially I thought he was a point forward, but he seems to be their actual point guard. A player whose skills and size would definitely be useful on the Spurs. I love his vision and freaky size. As before, not saying he should be our lottery pick, but I’d consider him as someone for the second round if he lasts that long.

https://youtu.be/noX20zsXhRg

[BackHome]

Unicorn Alert, the year's Poku, Vrenz Bleijenbergh: https://youtu.be/ToRQmA9bBz4

I've never heard of this guy yet. Our pick would be a reach. But would love to grab him in the second round if he's still around.

Edit: I realized I don't know how to embed a youtube video. Lol. So this post will likely get passed, but this guy is intriguing. 6'11" point forward.

Yep, he is interesting I think he is almost close to 40% from 3 if I am not mistaken - I like his attitude always wanting a challenge and wants to be the best add to it he has been playing since he was like 4 years old I would have no problems drafting him him in the second

[BackHome]

One thing I have noticed is that in the second round they are A LOT of good players - I seriously think you might have more then a handful of players drafted in the second round that will have better careers then those drafted in the first - They are some really good SF/PF in the second round that I think could easily make and stay with the team in the range we might draft at

[timvp]

Saying all that pivoted my way of thinking this season. I'm not going to completely dismiss players because of what possible redundancy they could bring to their rotation; I have indeed checked out some combo guards in this draft, which includes Springer, Bouknight, and Keon. Of the three, I'm impressed with Bouknight the most

I've only seen a little bit of Bouknight but he looks like he could be a quality bulk scorer. I've put watching more of him on the backburner because of this:

https://www.nhregister.com/uconn/article/Arrest-warrant-Bouknight-smelled-of-alcohol-when-14557251.php

Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things but would that be enough for the Spurs to disqualify drafting him? It's possible, IMO.

[SAGirl]

https://twitter.com/957thegame/status/1383188019310587905?s=19


Jesus, what an uplifting comment by Kerr
I’ve seen statements from him where they aren’t discounting him from being available for the right player. The clock is ticking on Curry (who knows how Klay will be when he comes back even?) but what they have isn’t enough to contend. I think they would move him for a win now player, but I bet they will be particular about who they would move him for.

Wiseman also got injured and his season is over (I wasn’t aware of this previously myself but have been getting up to speed on what’s up around the NBA lately.) In that same statement Kerr tries to hype him up saying he’s a generational type player etc, he just doesn’t match their window. I never saw him play myself.

[SAGirl]

Wiseman was terrible this season, tbh. As I wrote previously, he was Golden State's tank commander. His highlights looked good but he was clueless. Warriors locked their spot in the play-in tournament when Wiseman's meniscus snapped.

Another rookie who has been much worse than his highlights has been Patrick Williams. No one wants to admit it but he doesn't look that good and he's a big reason why the Bulls are flailing. His true position appears to be power forward but he's a bad rebounder so they've tried to shoehorn him as a SF. It's not working, tbh. He's not quick enough to defend perimeter players and he doesn't shoot enough threes to space the court on the other end. Williams is still really young so he has a chance to turn it around but he belongs in that same Wiseman category right now.
I appreciate reviews like this that help me catch up. Jumping in to watch the NBA at the end of the regular season, I never got to see him...

I have wondered why the Bulls have gotten worse post the Vucevic trade (or maybe they have been pretty bad almost uninterruptedly.)

[SAGirl]

If that was the case, we would have ended up with Nassir Little and not Keldon Johnson
Well they gambled with Luka who was the higher pick... turns out Kelvin has been more productive than their higher pick that year though the potential emails high. But this point also lends support to the other one made in this thread that bigs with potential tend to flash numbers to back up that potential (which Luke didn’t and came in with a bad rep from his euro team)...

then again, MVPJokic didn’t look like MVPJokic at 18. He was a fat tall kid who wasn’t sure he wanted to play competitively until he matured a bit.

[Mr. Body]

I've admitted I was wrong about Vassell. The book isn't closed for Jalen but after recognizing the trend where the NBA is heading, my draft philosophy has shifted to 1) acknowledging wings are more valuable than bigs today and 2) mobility from your bigs is extremely important. Seeing how Wiseman has performed this season has soured me on these unicorn type bigs. The NBA has simply passed bigs by.

You're free to have your opinion. I responded with a "yes" to your "no" because you didn't say much in response to my post.

The most important positions in this era are the small forward and point guard. In the 90s and into the 00s it was the big man and shooting guard.

[Mr. Body]

It's really difficult to draft top players nowadays. Wiseman shows why. Ayton, Bagley. You barely see players long enough in college -- or the analogue -- to have any idea of who you have. I call it the Calipari effect -- churn one-and-dones, toss them into the NBA, move on. Few of these players learn much more than a lick of basketball before getting drafted and now you have the trend of skipping college entirely. (Which is why Keldon is such a surprise.)

Doncic, Ja, Zion... Every era has its surprises. Paul Pierce dropped on draft day, for example. But now, knowing what to do is remarkably hard. The Warriors are a good franchise, but who was the right pick last year? Not even Halliburton is that great.

Walt Frazier was talking about how back in his day, a guy just drafted was expected to be a pro already, to be able to contribute. Now? It's a messy process. Almost every player will take years.

[BackHome]

Yeah I kinda agree a lot of the top 10 are based on the word "Potential" and that world has gotten a lot of GM's fired - But then again a lot of these teams that are drafting in the top 10 have some really bad owners/GM's - But I think when your in top 7 you don't have a lot of wiggle room as everyone pretty much told the world who you need to draft if you don't and the player you select does not work well kiss your job goodbye.

Right know looking at the draft as far as talent not much difference in the range of 11 - 18 so I am confident that will find a good player where we draft. But looking at the draft if we pick best available player it will probably be a SG/PG not sure if they do this but would not be surprised if this happens

[The Truth #6]

It's really difficult to draft top players nowadays. Wiseman shows why. Ayton, Bagley. You barely see players long enough in college -- or the analogue -- to have any idea of who you have. I call it the Calipari effect -- churn one-and-dones, toss them into the NBA, move on. Few of these players learn much more than a lick of basketball before getting drafted and now you have the trend of skipping college entirely. (Which is why Keldon is such a surprise.)

Doncic, Ja, Zion... Every era has its surprises. Paul Pierce dropped on draft day, for example. But now, knowing what to do is remarkably hard. The Warriors are a good franchise, but who was the right pick last year? Not even Halliburton is that great.

Walt Frazier was talking about how back in his day, a guy just drafted was expected to be a pro already, to be able to contribute. Now? It's a messy process. Almost every player will take years.

With skill being so important, and young players typically lacking in skill, and not sticking with small market teams longterm, drafting players who are more developed has a logic and is an undervalued market. Sure, less superstar potential with a 23-year old, but the Spurs take so long to play their young players, so to speak, I wonder if drafting older players makes more sense. Flipside is that small market teams also need to gamble on high ceiling players to have any chance at finding a superstar. So, basically, it’s really hard being a small market team.

[The Truth #6]

I've only seen a little bit of Bouknight but he looks like he could be a quality bulk scorer. I've put watching more of him on the backburner because of this:

https://www.nhregister.com/uconn/article/Arrest-warrant-Bouknight-smelled-of-alcohol-when-14557251.php

Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things but would that be enough for the Spurs to disqualify drafting him? It's possible, IMO.

It depends on the interview. Holt, RC, and Pop all have a strong relationship with alcohol, so perhaps a little humility from him in the interview might actually endear him to them. Sort of joking but also not really.

[Trueblood]

That's assuming teams want to take their picks to move down. If they can't find a trade partner, they have to lose value and trade them for future protected picks. The Thunder finding trade partners for equal value is not guaranteed.

I don't disagree with you completely, but I think you're forgetting another option. They can also use those picks to get raw international talent and let it draft and stash. If even one of those players turns into a Ginobili or even a Splitter you're doing good. For a small market team having draft and stash players is good because
1) international players are more likely to stay and
2) they don't have as much money so it saves them to let them develop overseas
OKC can always go that route if they don't find a partner.

[exstatic]

I don't disagree with you completely, but I think you're forgetting another option. They can also use those picks to get raw international talent and let it draft and stash. If even one of those players turns into a Ginobili or even a Splitter you're doing good. For a small market team having draft and stash players is good because
1) international players are more likely to stay and
2) they don't have as much money so it saves them to let them develop overseas
OKC can always go that route if they don't find a partner.

Two things: intl draft and stash with first rounders hasn’t been a thing for awhile, and the player has to agree in a letter that he will stay overseas for some period of time.

You can’t force the issue. Without the letter, the player is within their rights to report, and demand their guaranteed first round contract. If you fail to offer it, he becomes an immediate FA.

[longhorn]

Another intriguing prospect, 6’9” point guard from Nebraska, Dalano Banton. Initially I thought he was a point forward, but he seems to be their actual point guard. A player whose skills and size would definitely be useful on the Spurs. I love his vision and freaky size. As before, not saying he should be our lottery pick, but I’d consider him as someone for the second round if he lasts that long.

https://youtu.be/noX20zsXhRg

I remember more or less liking what I saw from him in a couple Nebraska games I watched. Apparently he grew like 4 inches since high school, and his game reflects that--he's a gigantic point guard.

Biggest issue with Banton for me would be his shooting. He has an incredibly slow release, and he doesn't have good percentages (41.1% FG / 24.7% 3PT / 65.9% FT). For a guy who was recruited out of high school as a 4-star 6'5 PG, he really should have more of a mid-range/3pt game than he does. He's going to need to spend a lot of time with Chip Engelland.

He also needs to get stronger, but since he had a late growth spurt, I'm less concerned about that being unfixable than I am his woeful shooting.

He's a fun boom/bust second rounder if they want a project who will need a lot of time in Austin, but has some nice traits to work with.

[LCM]

Gui Santos - Brazilian. ESPN just did a write up on him. #33 in their evaluation for 2022 draft, but he's putting paperwork in for this draft. Overseas restrictions on travel are loosening, more scouts are seeing him play.

18 yrs old, 6'8 215lbs G/F 7'1 wingspan. Just from the clips I've seen, can hit the 3, can initiate an offense, can lead the break. Can play off the ball, corner 3 position, move and cut to the rim. Not afraid to stick his nose in and rebound, will go for offensive put back tips or dunks. Defensively a bit slow with footwork, but he works to stay with his man and his wingspan gives him the ability for steals and blocks. He needs better discipline or he'll get cheap fouls, but he works on D.

Clips I've seen are him playing with national team or pro team he's playing with now, looks like HS gyms. But, WHY is ESPN talking about this guy NOW. There has to be talk of him being a possible 1st round pick in this draft, just on his age and measurables alone, for him to be putting in paperwork for this draft. And there is plenty of time between now and the draft to do homework on him.

Has anyone heard of this guy??

[exstatic]

Gui Santos - Brazilian. ESPN just did a write up on him. #33 in their evaluation for 2022 draft, but he's putting paperwork in for this draft. Overseas restrictions on travel are loosening, more scouts are seeing him play.

18 yrs old, 6'8 215lbs G/F 7'1 wingspan. Just from the clips I've seen, can hit the 3, can initiate an offense, can lead the break. Can play off the ball, corner 3 position, move and cut to the rim. Not afraid to stick his nose in and rebound, will go for offensive put back tips or dunks. Defensively a bit slow with footwork, but he works to stay with his man and his wingspan gives him the ability for steals and blocks. He needs better discipline or he'll get cheap fouls, but he works on D.

Clips I've seen are him playing with national team or pro team he's playing with now, looks like HS gyms. But, WHY is ESPN talking about this guy NOW. There has to be talk of him being a possible 1st round pick in this draft, just on his age and measurables alone, for him to be putting in paperwork for this draft. And there is plenty of time between now and the draft to do homework on him.

Has anyone heard of this guy??

Lots of guys drop paperwork, and then drop out, especially 18 year olds. The reality is that you can’t participate in the draft process or combine without declaring.

[The Truth #6]

I remember more or less liking what I saw from him in a couple Nebraska games I watched. Apparently he grew like 4 inches since high school, and his game reflects that--he's a gigantic point guard.

Biggest issue with Banton for me would be his shooting. He has an incredibly slow release, and he doesn't have good percentages (41.1% FG / 24.7% 3PT / 65.9% FT). For a guy who was recruited out of high school as a 4-star 6'5 PG, he really should have more of a mid-range/3pt game than he does. He's going to need to spend a lot of time with Chip Engelland.

He also needs to get stronger, but since he had a late growth spurt, I'm less concerned about that being unfixable than I am his woeful shooting.

He's a fun boom/bust second rounder if they want a project who will need a lot of time in Austin, but has some nice traits to work with.

Yeah, it's concerning, the shooting that is. I'm curious in him because I'm interested i n players who are great passers, especially players that could play forward. He seems comfortable posting small players and passing out to the open man. I could see him as a fun part of the second unit/beautiful game.

[BackHome]

Right now looking at the draft I am thinking we draft 13 to 18 with that said I think the following players will be available it just depends on who we want?

* Tre Man - 6’6 - G - 19yrs
* Alperen Sengun - 6’10 - C - 18yrs
* Jaden Springer - 6’4 - G - 18yrs
* Josh Giddey - 6’8 - PG - 18yrs
* Karl Franz Wagner - 6’9 - SF - 19yrs
* Isaiah Jackson - 6’10 - PF/C - 19yrs
* Usman Garuba - 6’8 - PF/C - 18yrs
* Zaire Williams - 6’8 - SF - 19yrs

[Dejounte]

Right now looking at the draft I am thinking we draft 13 to 18 with that said I think the following players will be available it just depends on who we want?

* Tre Man - 6’6 - G - 19yrs
* Alperen Sengun - 6’10 - C - 18yrs
* Jaden Springer - 6’4 - G - 18yrs
* Josh Giddey - 6’8 - PG - 18yrs
* Karl Franz Wagner - 6’9 - SF - 19yrs
* Isaiah Jackson - 6’10 - PF/C - 19yrs
* Usman Garuba - 6’8 - PF/C - 18yrs
* Zaire Williams - 6’8 - SF - 19yrs

https://twitter.com/robeltussin/status/1384577284292685825

[BackHome]

Yeah he is definitely more development would need 3 years of G League but has high upside if you think he could reach his potential

[Dejounte]

Brandon Boston, Terrence Clarke, Jalen Johnson, Kai Jones, Scottie Lewis, and Moses Moody all joined Klutch today.


Yeah he is definitely more development would need 3 years of G League but has high upside if you think he could reach his potential


Do you understand how much this place would meltdown if a rookie spent 3 years in the G-league?

[duncan2150]

https://youtu.be/yoDROPsaRSo

NBA Draft Junkies on Sengun. It’s not a long segment and it’s mostly curated clips with different areas to focus on. Jump to 3:33 to see more of his passing highlights. I go back-and-forth with him. The only reason to take him would be if he has serious upside as a passing big man, in my opinion.

IF he does have superior passing, AND you could play inside out with him (a lot of maybes), then our glut of guards becomes advantageous as you could play Sengun down low have him either use his old school post moves down low or pass to cutters or shooters. The path to that seems low, but it’s a path to consider and it means Yak may need to go, otherwise we would be drafting a backup big that doesn’t seem to shoot from outside.

To be clear, I don’t see this happening, but I finally see a path for how he could fit.

Really interesting, my guess is that he will be fine offensively, he has a good IQ but the passing ability are intriguing.

[BackHome]

Brandon Boston, Terrence Clarke, Jalen Johnson, Kai Jones, Scottie Lewis, and Moses Moody all joined Klutch today.




Do you understand how much this place would meltdown if a rookie spent 3 years in the G-league?

This place will melt no matter what everyone has there favorite Cats - But is it just me that it seems this draft I am like OK not getting excited about any one player - while most years I am all into it.

[SAGirl]

With skill being so important, and young players typically lacking in skill, and not sticking with small market teams longterm, drafting players who are more developed has a logic and is an undervalued market. Sure, less superstar potential with a 23-year old, but the Spurs take so long to play their young players, so to speak, I wonder if drafting older players makes more sense. Flipside is that small market teams also need to gamble on high ceiling players to have any chance at finding a superstar. So, basically, it’s really hard being a small market team.
Derrick White was one of the oldest rookies available and it was right to draft him based on his production. He wasn’t a lottery pick and maybe that made the team comfortable taking him. But he still spent a year in the Gleague when it looked like he could have contributed right away because “it wasn’t his time.”

[exstatic]

Derrick White was one of the oldest rookies available and it was right to draft him based on his production. He wasn’t a lottery pick and maybe that made the team comfortable taking him. But he still spent a year in the Gleague when it looked like he could have contributed right away because “it wasn’t his time.”

No, we still had Tony and Manu. That’s what time it was.

[SAGirl]

No, we still had Tony and Manu. That’s what time it was.
That’s only two guards. They were rested often at that stage in their careers and even got injuries mid season and nags. I don’t feel like doing a revision on your behalf bc there’s no point since your bias is evident but if you feel like it look at all the guards that played more than White his rookie season. Heck, more recently Pop had q preference for Bryn Forbes over White.

[exstatic]

That’s only two guards. They were rested often at that stage in their careers and even got injuries mid season and nags. I don’t feel like doing a revision on your behalf bc there’s no point since your bias is evident but if you feel like it look at all the guards that played more than White his rookie season. Heck, more recently Pop had q preference for Bryn Forbes over White.

Have you figured out yet that everyone spends a year in Austin?

[timvp]

-Moses Moody looks solid. I don't see many holes in his game. If he measures out as a legit 6-foot-6 or 6-foot-7, he'd be a strong pick in the late lottery. Has sneaky upside and is already advanced across the board. Whether he's the lead scorer or a complementary piece on the court, he seems to know that the role entails.

-Watched some Ayo Dosunmu because he's regarded as a high-character, team-first type of kid the Spurs like to draft. Plus his stats are pretty impressive. But no, not interested. Too small, too unathletic. Low release on shot. Dribbles too much. Not much court vision.

-I'm a little lower on Kispert after watching more of him. Amazing shooting stroke, deceptively big and strong, and comes off of screens well. But basketball instincts and basketball IQ are iffy. Makes more mistakes than he should. For a senior, that's pretty worrisome. His shooting is such a fit that I couldn't be mad about drafting him at ~14 but there's definite bust potential there.

-I'm just starting on Roko Prkacin but he actually looks really intriguing so far. I haven't seen measurements but it looks like he has long arms and big hands. Can run and jump pretty well. Plays physical and doesn't shy away from big moments. Three-point stroke looks okay. I have more to watch but so far he looks intriguing enough to take in the lottery, tbh, especially because he doesn't turn 19 until November.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

-Moses Moody looks solid. I don't see many holes in his game. If he measures out as a legit 6-foot-6 or 6-foot-7, he'd be a strong pick in the late lottery. Has sneaky upside and is already advanced across the board. Whether he's the lead scorer or a complementary piece on the court, he seems to know that the role entails.


This is my guy right now. Good shooting, looks very competent despite of being so young. Team first, net positive both on offense and defense, goes to the free throw line a lot. Dude has a very high floor, similarly to Vassell, but I think they would complement each other well. Also, if he'd improve his dribbling and finishing he has legit star potential.

If his draft measurements are good he'll probably be gone by pick 8th though.

[timvp]

This is my guy right now. Good shooting, looks very competent despite of being so young. Team first, net positive both on offense and defense, goes to the free throw line a lot. Dude has a very high floor, similarly to Vassell, but I think they would complement each other well. Also, if he'd improve his dribbling and finishing he has legit star potential.

If his draft measurements are good he'll probably be gone by pick 8th though.

Yeah, his free throw rate is a strong point in his favor. I know some scouts are saying it was fluke-ish but, IMO, it's difficult to fluke your way to the line six times per game. He consistently got to the line throughout the season, so I think that's a legitimate skill of his. And in today's NBA, that's a great skill to have.

I think he's probably gone by 13 or 14 ... but, if not, Moody would be an obvious fit for the Spurs. Young with untapped potential but also advanced enough and mature enough that he's not an extreme project who will have trouble fitting in. There might be some overlap with Vassell but, like you said, they're different enough to play them together.

[Dejounte]

Moses looks Kawhi Leonard-big. His girth + shoulders looks just as big. He'd serve as a good big wing replacement for DeMar.


https://youtu.be/NMU0S6Iv08U

Good video on his defense.

[duncan2150]

-Moses Moody looks solid. I don't see many holes in his game. If he measures out as a legit 6-foot-6 or 6-foot-7, he'd be a strong pick in the late lottery. Has sneaky upside and is already advanced across the board. Whether he's the lead scorer or a complementary piece on the court, he seems to know that the role entails.


-I'm just starting on Roko Prkacin but he actually looks really intriguing so far. I haven't seen measurements but it looks like he has long arms and big hands. Can run and jump pretty well. Plays physical and doesn't shy away from big moments. Three-point stroke looks okay. I have more to watch but so far he looks intriguing enough to take in the lottery, tbh, especially because he doesn't turn 19 until November.

It will be really good if we could have moody, he's one of the few SG-SF propsects i will take because i think this team needs a 4 badly and we have a lot of players at the 2-3.
The only concern for me is not about him but he needs the ball to be effective, imo he could adapts himself to a different role but i don't know in what role he could fit well with us.

About Roko i really like him the first time i saw him in late 2020, he is a complete player with a lot of upside imo. Like Sengun i like the fact that he is playing in a good league at the young age while producing, has a high IQ and can progress a lot imo.

[SpursDynasty85]

Wouldn’t be disappointed with Usman Garuba. Defensively and size-wise he is exactly what we need and hopefully he can develop more offense as he grows.

[TD 21]

Depending no how things breaks, Moody would probably be a good pick if he makes it to the late lottery.

There would be inevitable complaints about "another SG?!", but as timvp said, he seems a relatively high floor and ceiling wing and as some of us have said ad nauseam, pick perceived BPA and sort it out later. They have no foundational player and all of the youth won't be long term fixtures.



Moses looks Kawhi Leonard-big. His girth + shoulders looks just as big. He'd serve as a good big wing replacement for DeMar.


https://youtu.be/NMU0S6Iv08U

Good video on his defense.

Measurements aren't exact yet, but I've seen ones ranging from 6'6'' to 6'8'' and 185 to 205 lbs, with a 7'0'' wingspan.

Not exactly "big wing" material and neither is DeRozan.

[Ocotillo]

If the Spurs end up taking another wing type of guy because they are BPA that will be ok. Job is not done though. There is a log jam at the 2/3 with the Spurs so someone will have to be shipped out.

Keldon had done decent as PF but he needs to be a SF more often. That means of DJ, White, Vassell and Keldon, nevermind Demar, one of them has to go. I suspect a sign and trade is unlikely with Derozan but Demar and one of the young guns should fetch a decent 4 and then the rook can step in take the place of whoever was moved.

Also, with things getting back to normal next season (fingers crossed) I am hoping training camp and practice means KBD ends up earning more time.

[Ocotillo]

Oh man, in the above post, I forgot to include IV as one of the young guns. If we draft a BPA that is 6'5" to 6'8" to play the wing, one of the young guys needs to be moved to get a 4.

[duncan2150]

Wouldn’t be disappointed with Usman Garuba. Defensively and size-wise he is exactly what we need and hopefully he can develop more offense as he grows.

Actually i think Garuba is a little bit underatted by us. He could be something like a smaller Ibaka.

[Dejounte]

Depending no how things breaks, Moody would probably be a good pick if he makes it to the late lottery.

There would be inevitable complaints about "another SG?!", but as timvp said, he seems a relatively high floor and ceiling wing and as some of us have said ad nauseam, pick perceived BPA and sort it out later. They have no foundational player and all of the youth won't be long term fixtures.




Measurements aren't exact yet, but I've seen ones ranging from 6'6'' to 6'8'' and 185 to 205 lbs, with a 7'0'' wingspan.

Not exactly "big wing" material and neither is DeRozan.

Definitely feel he could be bigger than that. His size pops out of the screen. Obviously I could be wrong.

[SpursDynasty85]

Depending no how things breaks, Moody would probably be a good pick if he makes it to the late lottery.

There would be inevitable complaints about "another SG?!", but as timvp said, he seems a relatively high floor and ceiling wing and as some of us have said ad nauseam, pick perceived BPA and sort it out later. They have no foundational player and all of the youth won't be long term fixtures.




Measurements aren't exact yet, but I've seen ones ranging from 6'6'' to 6'8'' and 185 to 205 lbs, with a 7'0'' wingspan.

Not exactly "big wing" material and neither is DeRozan.

That 7' wingspan would be considered Big Wing type material. 6'7-6'8" height would be ideal though.

[TD 21]

Definitely feel he could be bigger than that. His size pops out of the screen. Obviously I could be wrong.

Some of the writeups on him mention his broad shoulders and wide frame, so even if you're not right now, you could be in time as it could be a case where he's the type who has significant room to add strength.



That 7' wingspan would be considered Big Wing type material. 6'7-6'8" height would be ideal though.

Yeah, it's the strength or lack thereof I was getting at.

It's not even so much about finding a James or Scumbag defender anymore because of the timelines not aligning, it's more so Doncic, Williamson and Antetokounmpo.

[The Truth #6]

More on Moody: https://youtu.be/nAREytIpW38

[Dejounte]

Moody looks like a cross between Brandon Roy and Kawhi Leonard (blasphemous, I know) to me


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hfPwLxrvYM

A lot of the critique I see people had for Kawhi seem the same for Moody. Kawhi had a lot of offensive game in college. They just said he didn't look athletic enough or whatever.

Brandon Roy was one of my favorite players of all-time. Such a damn shame he got injured.

[Russ]

Moody looks like a cross between Brandon Roy and Kawhi Leonard (blasphemous, I know) to me


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hfPwLxrvYM

A lot of the critique I see people had for Kawhi seem the same for Moody. Kawhi had a lot of offensive game in college. They just said he didn't look athletic enough or whatever.

Brandon Roy was one of my favorite players of all-time. Such a damn shame he got injured.

Moody's a nice looking player, but he's not Kawhi Leonard. He doesn't have the body or the physicality.

He looks a lot like Devin Vassel (which isn't a bad thing). He'll likely be good, but probably not a game-changer if that's what you're looking for.

[duncan2150]

Moody looks like a cross between Brandon Roy and Kawhi Leonard (blasphemous, I know) to me


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hfPwLxrvYM

A lot of the critique I see people had for Kawhi seem the same for Moody. Kawhi had a lot of offensive game in college. They just said he didn't look athletic enough or whatever.

Brandon Roy was one of my favorite players of all-time. Such a damn shame he got injured.


Imo he's more like less good Joe Johnson, Moody is a shooter , Kawhi was not and roy was not that so much in college but it's difficult to compare players. I understand what you mean about athletism and if you talk about that i can agree for moody. He's describe as a good athlete but not really good with lack of burst...

[Dejounte]

Moody's a nice looking player, but he's not Kawhi Leonard. He doesn't have the body or the physicality.

He looks a lot like Devin Vassel (which isn't a bad thing). He'll likely be good, but probably not a game-changer if that's what you're looking for.

That's why I said "cross"

He could have a longer wingspan than we think:

https://twitter.com/MavsDraft/status/1366971514604650498?s=19

[ace3g]

damn RIP...

https://twitter.com/WKYT/status/1385401964540858370

https://twitter.com/Tarek_Fattal/status/1385405517829345280

[Dejounte]

damn RIP...

https://twitter.com/WKYT/status/1385401964540858370

https://twitter.com/Tarek_Fattal/status/1385405517829345280

Holy fuck wow. He just signed with Klutch too. So much death lately, man. RIP

[Spurtacular]

Ranked 8th on Rivals.

https://sports.yahoo.com/former-uk-basketball-player-terrence-clarke-dies-in-car-accident-023041103.html

[exstatic]

Moody looks like a cross between Brandon Roy and Kawhi Leonard (blasphemous, I know) to me


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hfPwLxrvYM

A lot of the critique I see people had for Kawhi seem the same for Moody. Kawhi had a lot of offensive game in college. They just said he didn't look athletic enough or whatever.

Brandon Roy was one of my favorite players of all-time. Such a damn shame he got injured.

He was injured before he was drafted. Came in with health red flags. Portland could never seem to resist drafting those guys.

[mo7888]

I've been lower on Moody than I should. I haven't watched tape on him but I did see him play in person in Fayetteville in a win against Mississippi State. He was just pedestrian in that game and MSU played awful. Maybe I've let that game influence my thinking more than it should.

[BatManu20]

Moody will be long gone by the time the Spurs pick if we keep winning the way are. Was really hoping this team would crack the top 11 of the draft but that doesn’t appear likely anymore. New found confidence is likely going to put us somewhere between 14-16 smh.

[rankingtear]

Another outlier for Moody is that offensive rebounding for a wing at 2 a game, those are Butler and Kawhi numbers. And never though he is 5th in the NCAA in made free throws.

[exstatic]

Moody will be long gone by the time the Spurs pick if we keep winning the way are. Was really hoping this team would crack the top 11 of the draft but that doesn’t appear likely anymore. New found confidence is likely going to put us somewhere between 14-16 smh.

We won’t be any lower than 14. There is no way this team plays into the playoffs.

[rankingtear]

We won’t be any lower than 14. There is no way this team plays into the playoffs.

Why not it's a 1 game series.

[exstatic]

Why not it's a 1 game series.

We’re bad at winning games that the other team is at all interested in, and it won’t be one game for us. We’re almost a lock to be #10, so we’d need to beat #9, and then beat the loser of #7/#8.

[Dejounte]

My 4/23/21 Tier List:

Tier 1 (no brainer, but also no chance of happening)
Cade Cunningham
Jonathan Kuminga
Evan Mobley


Tier 2 (I would be happy)
Franz Wagner
Moses Moody
Josh Giddey


Tier 3 (enough talent worth taking a shot on)
Jalen Green
Jalen Suggs
James Bouknight
Keon Johnson
Alperen Sengun


Tier 4 (if everyone above is gone, might as well go high risk, high reward)
Jalen Johnson
Scottie Barnes
Roko Prkacin
Kai Jones


Tier 5 (High floor prospects)
Jeremiah Robinson-Earl
Chris Duarte
Jaden Springer
Davion Mitchell
Ayo Dosunmu
Herb Jones


Tier 6 (Meh)
Usman Garuba
Filip Petrusev


Don't care for:
Greg Brown
Isaiah Jackson
Corey Kispert
Ziaire Williams

[mo7888]

My 4/23/21 Tier List:

Tier 1 (no brainer, but also no chance of happening)
Cade Cunningham
Jonathan Kuminga
Evan Mobley


Tier 2 (I would be happy)
Franz Wagner
Moses Moody
Josh Giddey


Tier 3 (enough talent worth taking a shot on)
Jalen Green
James Bouknight
Keon Johnson


Tier 4 (if everyone above is gone, might as well go high risk, high reward)
Jalen Johnson
Scottie Barnes
Roko Prkacin
Kai Jones


Tier 5 (High floor prospects)
Jeremiah Robinson-Earl
Chris Duarte
Jaden Springer
Davion Mitchell
Ayo Dosunmu
Herb Jones


Tier 6 (Meh)
Usman Garuba
Filip Petrusev


Don't care for:
Greg Brown
Isaiah Jackson
Corey Kispert
Ziaire Williams

Suggs?

[Dejounte]

Suggs?

Oops! Tier 3 over Bouknight and Keon.

[mo7888]

Oops! Tier 3 over Bouknight and Keon.

Good deal...My tiers are fairly to that...I've got Jackson in the tier 4 and Kispert in the tier 5... still a little torn on Moody from lack of watching him on tape.... I like your list...good work..

[bluebellmaniac]

My 4/23/21 Tier List:

Tier 1 (no brainer, but also no chance of happening)
Cade Cunningham
Jonathan Kuminga
Evan Mobley


Tier 2 (I would be happy)
Franz Wagner
Moses Moody
Josh Giddey


Tier 3 (enough talent worth taking a shot on)
Jalen Green
Jalen Suggs
James Bouknight
Keon Johnson


Tier 4 (if everyone above is gone, might as well go high risk, high reward)
Jalen Johnson
Scottie Barnes
Roko Prkacin
Kai Jones


Tier 5 (High floor prospects)
Jeremiah Robinson-Earl
Chris Duarte
Jaden Springer
Davion Mitchell
Ayo Dosunmu
Herb Jones


Tier 6 (Meh)
Usman Garuba
Filip Petrusev


Don't care for:
Greg Brown
Isaiah Jackson
Corey Kispert
Ziaire Williams

Alperen Şengün still tier 3?

[Dejounte]

Alperen Şengün still tier 3?



Oh geez, forgot him too. Yeah, he'd be somewhere between tier 3 and 4. Probably after Keon.

[timvp]

My 4/23/21 Tier List:

Tier 1 (no brainer, but also no chance of happening)
Cade Cunningham
Jonathan Kuminga
Evan Mobley

I haven't watched all the G League games yet but from what I've seen, I agree that Kuminga would be a reaaaaally tempting player if the Spurs get into the top 4. His size, athleticism and skills with San Antonio's development staff? He'd have a very good chance of becoming a monster.


Tier 3 (enough talent worth taking a shot on)
Jalen Green
Jalen Suggs

I can understand why Suggs is lower on your list. I like him (really like him, tbh) in general but on the Spurs, you'd pretty much need to trade away Murray and White to allow Suggs to run the show. Is he that good? I'm not convinced yet. That said, the lowest possible number he could be on my board is 5. The gulf between 5 and 6 in this draft is huge.

What makes you lower on Green? From what I've seen so far, he looks like the best pure scorer in the draft. You draft him and he's a natural replacement for DeRozan. Considering the Spurs need bulk scoring and Green's a bulk scorer, I could even understand if the Spurs pick him ahead of Kuminga.


Don't care for:
Corey Kispert

Not that I vehemently disagree, but why don't you like Kispert? Some things about him scare me away but, at the end of the day, he looks like a great shooter who can play SF. He'd also make it easier to wave goodbye to Mills.

Pretty much agree on Greg Brown, btw. Lowest basketball IQ and worst passer I've seen in a while. Maybe only Kabengele was as bad of a passer in the past three or four drafts.

[timvp]

Kessler Edwards declared for the draft. That's good news. Last year, a few analytic models gave him a first round grade. I took a deep dive then and was impressed. He went back for his junior year at Pepperdine and was even better. Now those analytic models are giving him a lottery grade. He doesn't have any buzz yet but I think he'll be a riser once teams start looking at the tape. He's 6-foot-8, shoots a ton of threes and hits ~40% of them, was an 88% free throw shooter as a junior, and fills the rest of the stat sheet. You don't see many 20-year-old 6-foot-8 players who are good athletes, hit threes in bunches and rack up rebounds, blocks and steals.

The only statistical issue with Edwards is low assist numbers -- but he also doesn't turn it over or foul, so it's a bit of a wash. The biggest question mark scouts will have is whether his three-point stroke will translate to the NBA. It's really ugly ... but it works and it's reasonably quick and the release point is reasonably high. I don't have much of a problem with it, tbh. I don't even think you have him try to fix it. He uses the same form consistently -- and that's more important.

I don't know if I could co-sign taking Edwards in the lottery ... but maybe. That said, if he's on the board when the Spurs pick in the second round, he's a no-brainer.

[Dejounte]

I haven't watched all the G League games yet but from what I've seen, I agree that Kuminga would be a reaaaaally tempting player if the Spurs get into the top 4. His size, athleticism and skills with San Antonio's development staff? He'd have a very good chance of becoming a monster.



I can understand why Suggs is lower on your list. I like him (really like him, tbh) in general but on the Spurs, you'd pretty much need to trade away Murray and White to allow Suggs to run the show. Is he that good? I'm not convinced yet. That said, the lowest possible number he could be on my board is 5. The gulf between 5 and 6 in this draft is huge.

What makes you lower on Green? From what I've seen so far, he looks like the best pure scorer in the draft. You draft him and he's a natural replacement for DeRozan. Considering the Spurs need bulk scoring and Green's a bulk scorer, I could even understand if the Spurs pick him ahead of Kuminga.



Not that I vehemently disagree, but why don't you like Kispert? Some things about him scare me away but, at the end of the day, he looks like a great shooter who can play SF. He'd also make it easier to wave goodbye to Mills.

Pretty much agree on Greg Brown, btw. Lowest basketball IQ and worst passer I've seen in a while. Maybe only Kabengele was as bad of a passer in the past three or four drafts.
RE: Jalen Green

Jalen Green reminds me of a more athletic, 3-point shooting version of Dejounte Murray. It sounds great, in theory, but you take the bad with the good. And the bad is, like Murray, he looks very raw in terms of basketball fundamentals that the Spurs will essentially be starting from square one again trying to teach a young guard how to play organized team basketball. He looks chuck-happy, may have some influence from Kobe, but unfortunately not the good parts of Kobe, namely footwork. Jalen looks like the type of player who needs the ball is in his hands to be effective, and given that the Spurs program has a higher learning curve for guards, I'm not AS willing to take a chance on a raw guard like Green. His body movement always looks chaotic out there, I don't think he'll reach a level where he's an efficient shooter, compared to someone like Klay whose body is always seems upright. With that said, I acknowledge that there is talent there and that he's a better gamble than a lot of other players.

Suggs actually looks like he has better fundamentals than Green, but I think the talent weighs in favor of Green.

Edit: I also think he (Green) may have a Hollywood personality who might bolt the first chance he gets if he's drafted to a small market team like the Spurs.

RE: Kispert

My philosophy is you try to draft players with talent you can't get via FA, and I feel you can find Kispert-types easily this upcoming FA, i.e. McDermott.

[exstatic]

RE: Jalen Green

Jalen Green reminds me of a more athletic, 3-point shooting version of Dejounte Murray. It sounds great, in theory, but you take the bad with the good. And the bad is, like Murray, he looks very raw in terms of basketball fundamentals that the Spurs will essentially be starting from square one again trying to teach a young guard how to play organized team basketball. He looks chuck-happy, may have some influence from Kobe, but unfortunately not the good parts of Kobe, namely footwork. Jalen looks like the type of player who needs the ball is in his hands to be effective, and given that the Spurs program has a higher learning curve for guards, I'm not AS willing to take a chance on a raw guard like Green. His body movement always looks chaotic out there, I don't think he'll reach a level where he's an efficient shooter, compared to someone like Klay whose body is always seems upright. With that said, I acknowledge that there is talent there and that he's a better gamble than a lot of other players.

Suggs actually looks like he has better fundamentals than Green, but I think the talent weighs in favor of Green.

Edit: I also think he (Green) may have a Hollywood personality who might bolt the first chance he gets if he's drafted to a small market team like the Spurs.

RE: Kispert

My philosophy is you try to draft players with talent you can't get via FA, and I feel you can find Kispert-types easily this upcoming FA, i.e. McDermott.

I’m not sold on Kispert, but he’ll be a LOT cheaper than McDermott. He’ll have a starting cost around $2M. McD will cost probably upwards of the MLE. Small market.

[duncan2150]

My 4/23/21 Tier List:

Tier 1 (no brainer, but also no chance of happening)
Cade Cunningham
Jonathan Kuminga
Evan Mobley
.......



I will go with mine

Tier 1 (no brainer, but also no chance of happening)
Cade Cunningham
Jonathan Kuminga
Evan Mobley
Jalen Green
Suggs


Tier 2 (I would be happy)
Franz Wagner
Moses Moody
Alperen Sengun
Scottie Barnes


Tier 3 (enough talent worth taking a shot on)
Jalen Johnson
Josh Giddey
James Bouknight
Keon Johnson



Tier 4 (if everyone above is gone, might as well go high risk, high reward)
Usman Garuba
Isaiah Jackson
Roko Prkacin
Kai Jones


Tier 5 (High floor prospects)
Jeremiah Robinson-Earl
Jaden Springer
Davion Mitchell
Ayo Dosunmu
Corey Kispert

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

damn RIP...

https://twitter.com/WKYT/status/1385401964540858370

https://twitter.com/Tarek_Fattal/status/1385405517829345280

very sad stuff

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/743297685302632451/pSX-RERB_normal.jpg
Jonathan Givony @DraftExpress
(https://twitter.com/DraftExpress) 2m (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1385753581983305730)
Ben Mathurin will return to Arizona for his sophomore season, he told ESPN. One of the best shooters in the freshman class. Projected top-20 pick in the ESPN 2022 mock draft.

[Mr. Body]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/743297685302632451/pSX-RERB_normal.jpg
Jonathan Givony @DraftExpress
(https://twitter.com/DraftExpress) 2m (https://twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/1385753581983305730)
Ben Mathurin will return to Arizona for his sophomore season, he told ESPN. One of the best shooters in the freshman class. Projected top-20 pick in the ESPN 2022 mock draft.

Why return to Arizona? They're facing a massive penalty and fired their coach. Better to use the transfer portal somewhere else.

[exstatic]

Why return to Arizona? They're facing a massive penalty and fired their coach. Better to use the transfer portal somewhere else.

If he goes to another D1 school, UA could make him sit for a year. UA’s fate matters not. He just needs to improve his game.

[Mr. Body]

If he goes to another D1 school, UA could make him sit for a year. UA’s fate matters not. He just needs to improve his game.

I guess you don't follow college basketball. This year there's a transfer portal. Players can leave instantly and play elsewhere.

[Dejounte]

This channel always uploads the best film on players because they include missed shots:


https://youtu.be/mJr00mGNqhM


https://youtu.be/T4oSHpkXz_0


https://youtu.be/rPa-mDxniyE

Also, clips on their defense you won't find anywhere else unless you watch the full games. You have to fast forward to the latter half of the video to see their defense.

[Dejounte]

Geez. I didn't realize how bad Jalen Johnson was on defense. Poor closeouts on the perimeter, almost makes Rudy Gay look elite. His lateral quickness sucks, too. It's almost Obi Toppin-level bad. His hips are stiff, players blow past him so easily.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Interesting news re Mathurin. I thought he'd have been wonderful as a 2nd round pick, but by the end of the season his stock was rising rapidly. He and his agent must have thought he wouldn't have been a first rounder.

[duncan2150]

This channel always uploads the best film on players because they include missed shots:



Yes that's the most complete channel about scouting for me with long films. I will watch some of these tapes.

[Dejounte]

Of the three players I posted, James Bouknight is the best defender, which is insane to think about since he's also a hell of a scorer. He's a 3-level scorer - a shooter from 3, mid-range, and a finisher. Bouknight should be a riser and a top 10 lock by draft time.

Another riser: Tre Mann

[exstatic]

Geez. I didn't realize how bad Jalen Johnson was on defense. Poor closeouts on the perimeter, almost makes Rudy Gay look elite. His lateral quickness sucks, too. It's almost Obi Toppin-level bad. His hips are stiff, players blow past him so easily.

He might be the big dropper this year.

[Mr. Body]

Duke players are often pretty shitty nowadays. They were famous for producing bad pros, then had a few decent ones with a few great ones (Hill, Irving). Now it's like Coach K doesn't even coach them on anything at all.

[duncan2150]

Of the three players I posted, James Bouknight is the best defender, which is insane to think about since he's also a hell of a scorer. He's a 3-level scorer - a shooter from 3, mid-range, and a finisher. Bouknight should be a riser and a top 10 lock by draft time.

Another riser: Tre Mann


What's strange is that bouknight is sliding on mocks, maybe linked to the march madness tough he was not that bad.

He's a 10-15 picks in most mocks, before he was more 7-10.

[Dejounte]

What's strange is that bouknight is sliding on mocks, maybe linked to the march madness tough he was not that bad.

He's a 10-15 picks in most mocks, before he was more 7-10.

I looked into it deeper and apparently an elbow injury made him miss a lot of games. Similar to Aaron Nesmith who only played 14, Bouknight only played 15. Nesmith's small sample size made him drop a lot in last year's draft. Also, looks like Bouknight didn't shoot all that great despite having a good shooting form. I don't read too much into those percentages, I think he'll be a good shooter in the NBA. Aaron was a lights out shooter in those 14 games and it isn't like he's lighting it up (yet) in the NBA. Shooting percentages can be misleading.

[duncan2150]

I looked into it deeper and apparently an elbow injury made him miss a lot of games. Similar to Aaron Nesmith who only played 14, Bouknight only played 15. Nesmith's small sample size made him drop a lot in last year's draft. Also, looks like Bouknight didn't shoot all that great despite having a good shooting form. I don't read too much into those percentages, I think he'll be a good shooter in the NBA. Aaron was a lights out shooter in those 14 games and it isn't like he's lighting it up (yet) in the NBA. Shooting percentages can be misleading.


I agree, Neismith was having one unbelivable year, Bouk showed that he can shoot and lead a team during two years tough the % were not good. Imo his team was not that great and he carried them to a good season.

If the Spurs have some of Moody, Bouknight or Keon Johnson available that will not be easy to pass on them even if they are SG or SF.

[Mr. Body]

nbadraft has the Spurs taking Johnny Juzang right now. I don't think he'll go there -- my guess is he pulls out of the draft -- but he's intriguing, whether for the Spurs or not. They need some guy who can just get buckets, and lots of them, as needed, and he's shown he can do that. He's also shown he needs a lot of work elsewhere, but he's 20 years old, has decent size, and carried big brass balls throughout the tournament.

[Dejounte]

I think it's unlikely but possible for the Spurs to surpass the Heat, Hornets, Blazers, and Grizzlies in the win column at season's end. I don't think they will pass the Mavericks nor the Celtics.

Pick range seems to be between 13th to 19th. My guess is it'll be between 13th and 17th.

[BackHome]

Geez. I didn't realize how bad Jalen Johnson was on defense. Poor closeouts on the perimeter, almost makes Rudy Gay look elite. His lateral quickness sucks, too. It's almost Obi Toppin-level bad. His hips are stiff, players blow past him so easily.

Yeah he is bad but man watching Giddey on Defense doesn't look good at all I just don't know if he has the foot speed to be able to defend his man one on one.

[timvp]

I think it's unlikely but possible for the Spurs to surpass the Heat, Hornets, Blazers, and Grizzlies in the win column at season's end. I don't think they will pass the Mavericks nor the Celtics.

Pick range seems to be between 13th to 19th. My guess is it'll be between 13th and 17th.

Yeah, figuring out what pick the Spurs are most likely to get is difficult right now. If they miss the playoffs, they're guaranteed no lower than 14. But there are scenarios where they are the 9th seed, miss the playoffs, other play-in teams make the playoffs and the Spurs end up with the 12th pick. And then, like you said, one hot stretch to end the season and they could quick start moving to the 17, 18, 19 range.

[timvp]

I've been watching more bigs to see if any are worth considering in the first round...

-I don't even really understand why Usman Garuba is considered a first round prospect. Good mobility on defense and can protect the rim a bit even though he's only 6-foot-8 ... but that's about it. Years ago, PFs could get by in the NBA by just playing defense. But those days ended years ago. A defense-only PF who looks too small to play center and can't do anything on offense is not someone I'd want to pick in the first round, tbh. I don't buy Garuba's mechanical jumper at all and he has no other real instincts besides finishing at the rim. His ultimate upside would be a smaller Gorgui Dieng. Hard pass, tbh. I don't even really like Sengun but I'd much rather draft Sengun than Garuba.

-Day'Ron Sharpe is another non-fit in today's NBA. Not much of an athlete and little hope he could ever hit a jumper. Shouldn't be a first round pick. He has legit size and length for a center but that alone isn't enough anymore.

-I like Isaiah Jackson a little bit better than Sharpe or Garuba ... but not much. Slender build, not as springy as he's billed and not too skilled. He'll probably go in the first round but I don't want the Spurs to pick him, tbh.

-I don't think San Antonio's own Charles Bassey is going to get drafted. Maybe late by a dumb team but that's about the best he could hope for. He would have been an NBA player 25 years ago but not these days.

-Neemias Queta has enough skill that he's a little bit intriguing. Not as a first rounder though. I'd put Queta and Luka Garza in the same category in that it's understandable if you use a mid to late second round pick on him since they have actual skill to go along with their size.

-Ariel Hukporti was so bad that I couldn't even stomach watching his tape.

[BackHome]

I am thinking we go with SG in first round I think where we will pick that is the best Valued players will be and I think in the second round the best Value will be SF/PF positions.

[Russ]

I've been watching more bigs to see if any are worth considering in the first round...

-I don't even really understand why Usman Garuba is considered a first round prospect. Good mobility on defense and can protect the rim a bit even though he's only 6-foot-8 ... but that's about it. Years ago, PFs could get by in the NBA by just playing defense. But those days ended years ago. A defense-only PF who looks too small to play center and can't do anything on offense is not someone I'd want to pick in the first round, tbh. I don't buy Garuba's mechanical jumper at all and he has no other real instincts besides finishing at the rim. His ultimate upside would be a smaller Gorgui Dieng. Hard pass, tbh. I don't even really like Sengun but I'd much rather draft Sengun than Garuba.

-Day'Ron Sharpe is another non-fit in today's NBA. Not much of an athlete and little hope he could ever hit a jumper. Shouldn't be a first round pick. He has legit size and length for a center but that alone isn't enough anymore.

-I like Isaiah Jackson a little bit better than Sharpe or Garuba ... but not much. Slender build, not as springy as he's billed and not too skilled. He'll probably go in the first round but I don't want the Spurs to pick him, tbh.

-I don't think San Antonio's own Charles Bassey is going to get drafted. Maybe late by a dumb team but that's about the best he could hope for. He would have been an NBA player 25 years ago but not these days.

-Neemias Queta has enough skill that he's a little bit intriguing. Not as a first rounder though. I'd put Queta and Luka Garza in the same category in that it's understandable if you use a mid to late second round pick on him since they have actual skill to go along with their size.

-Ariel Hukporti was so bad that I couldn't even stomach watching his tape.

Don't forget about a big you didn't mention, Kai Jones. He may be available at 12-16 and when it comes to the draft, the best ability is availability.

I haven't seen a combination of height, athleticism, shooting ability and motor like him in quite a while. And he's just going to get better.

It's not like they're passing up some gem if they grab him -- despite all previous reports to the contrary, this draft looks pretty weak to me. Maybe even worse than last year's.

Hopefully, all the other GMs are thinking about Kai like most on this board.

[timvp]

Don't forget about a big you didn't mention, Kai Jones. He may be available at 12-16 and when it comes to the draft, the best ability is availability.

I haven't seen a combination of height, athleticism, shooting ability and motor like him in quite a while. And he's just going to get better.

It's not like they're passing up some gem if they grab him -- despite all previous reports to the contrary, this draft looks pretty weak to me. Maybe even worse than last year's.

Hopefully, all the other GMs are thinking about Kai like most on this board.

Yeah I've posted in this thread about how I like Kai, especially compared to the other bigs in this draft. I don't love him but he's a really good athlete with an impressive trajectory of improvement. Picking him ~14 in this draft wouldn't be hard to justify at all.

[Dejounte]

Yeah he is bad but man watching Giddey on Defense doesn't look good at all I just don't know if he has the foot speed to be able to defend his man one on one.

His defense is indeed disappointing but it does make me wonder if it's because of NBL culture and defense isn't taken seriously over there.

I was thinking about trade ups into the 8-13 range, and the only players I would trade up for within that range (assuming none of the top 3 fall) are Franz Wagner & Moses Moody. As much as I like Giddey, I wouldn't trade up for him. Maybe Murray and/or Lonnie can be dangled for a pick within that range and we keep our natural pick, then DeMar for Markkanen.

White/ Tre/ Q
Vassell/ Mills/ Giddey
Keldon/ KBD/ Wagner
Markkanen/ Samanic
Poeltl/ Eubanks/ Dieng

Giddey and Wagner get no playing time in their first year, obviously. :eyebrows

Shooting won't be a problem anymore with that rotation. We only need to keep two natural fours on the roster (Lauri & Luka) since our threes can slide up (Keldon & Franz).

For the scenario where DeMar and Lonnie are kept:

White/ Tre/ Q
Vassell/ Lonnie/ Mills
DeMar/ KBD/ Wagner
Keldon/ Luka
Poeltl/ Eubanks/ Dieng

[Russ]

I was thinking about trade ups into the 8-13 range, and the only players I would trade up for within that range (assuming none of the top 3 fall) are Franz Wagner & Moses Moody. As much as I like Giddey, I wouldn't trade up for him.

I would only trade up for Giddey of those three. The other two look like stay they'll probably stick in the league but never achieve much notice.

Giddey's D may be bad but in this zone-ass era all you need to survive (even thrive) is some size, some BB IQ, coachability and working like hell.

And defensive ability may be the hardest attribute to evaluate as it translates to the NBA from lower platforms.

[Dejounte]

I would only trade up for Giddey of those three. The other two look like stay they'll probably stick in the league but never achieve much notice.

Giddey's D may be bad but in this zone-ass era all you need to survive (even thrive) is some size, some BB IQ, coachability and working like hell.

And defensive ability may be the hardest attribute to evaluate as it translates to the NBA from lower platforms.

I feel like I'm going to go back and forth with who is better than who between these three all the way until draft time. :lmao

[talkspurs]

I like Luka Garza for the 2nd round pick. I think he is someone that will have a solid career and is going to be overlooked.

[GAustex]

Garza is slow like a glacier

[Mr. Body]

I like Luka Garza for the 2nd round pick. I think he is someone that will have a solid career and is going to be overlooked.

Anyone who picks up Garza in the 2nd might get a steal. Maybe he doesn't work in the NBA, but the guy knows how to play.

[timvp]

Anyone who picks up Garza in the 2nd might get a steal. Maybe he doesn't work in the NBA, but the guy knows how to play.

Yeah, Garza probably won't make it but put me in the camp who wouldn't mind the Spurs picking him in the second round. A highly skilled, shooting center with the experience of being the focal point of an offense and had success even though every team designed their gameplan to stop him? It's not impossible that he ends up sticking in the NBA. I wouldn't give him much more than a 10% chance ... but that's true for any second round pick.

[timvp]

I'm going back and forth on Giddey. I think he's draftable at 14 ... but I'm not 100% sure. There's a lot to like about him but it's tough to overlook that he's a C athlete whose shooting form is erratic.

Currently I'd be okay with Giddey at ~14 but I wouldn't trade to move up to pick him.

[LCM]

Yeah, Garza probably won't make it but put me in the camp who wouldn't mind the Spurs picking him in the second round. A highly skilled, shooting center with the experience of being the focal point of an offense and had success even though every team designed their gameplan to stop him? It's not impossible that he ends up sticking in the NBA. I wouldn't give him much more than a 10% chance ... but that's true for any second round pick.

What about the Center from Seton Hall? He's a 2nd rd option. Not as bulky as Garza, but hits the 3, better handle and passer. More athletic and can fill the lane. Garza is better defensively and rebounding, but Mamu will mix it up underneath.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/TvN8Lhqjlm8

From yesterday

[Dejounte]

I'm going back and forth on Giddey. I think he's draftable at 14 ... but I'm not 100% sure. There's a lot to like about him but it's tough to overlook that he's a C athlete whose shooting form is erratic.

Currently I'd be okay with Giddey at ~14 but I wouldn't trade to move up to pick him.

IMO, Haliburton isn't all that impressive as far as his athleticism. That's kind of the projection I'm betting on here. That natural feel will trump everything else.

[ragas]

His defense is indeed disappointing but it does make me wonder if it's because of NBL culture and defense isn't taken seriously over there.



He looses his man every single time. That‘s not a league culture, that‘s him.

[mo7888]

I'm still in the Franz Wagner camp. After the top 5 he's my guy... Moody is intriguing the more I watch tape and Giddey has some things I like but, Wagner I believe would elevate us more.

[The Truth #6]

He looses his man every single time. That‘s not a league culture, that‘s him.

Yeah, my concern is it could be Forbes bad. Still watching tape on him. He seems overhyped a bit, but his positives are skills we could really use.

[rankingtear]

IMO, Haliburton isn't all that impressive as far as his athleticism. That's kind of the projection I'm betting on here. That natural feel will trump everything else.

Haliburton is not that bad of an athlete. The slow playmaker with an iffy shot last draft is Killian Hayes.

[Dejounte]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuIs6dl19Hw

The more I watch Bouknight, the more I believe he's going to be the best scorer from this draft. If you need a bucket, give it to Bouk.

[Russ]

He looses his man every single time. That‘s not a league culture, that‘s him.

Every other defender on Giddey's team loses his man every time, too. It's a nonstop pick and roll meltdown. Even Gary Payton would look bad on that team.

[B1gduff]

I'm still 50/50 on Giddey, i like his offensive game, but not his defense. Also he kind of looks a bit out of shape (could just be me)

I don't really have a clear pick in this draft in our range (haven't paid much attnetion this year)

My top 4 guys i would look at

1. Williams
2. Giddey
3. Kal Jone
4.Kispert

Out of these four, Williams to be his the guy with the highest upside. I think he's worth the gamble if he's avaiable. There is a bit of a question mark on his athetlism, but we've seen wih guys like Demar and even to a certain extend Kawhi, a player doesn't need eltite athetism. Williams has the hight, IQ and footwork that he could still be a safe pick (kyle Anderson type) but has the upside to be an elite player. Williams also went through a lot of things off court, deaths in his family, covid, he also had to stay in hotel during the college season and it had it's impact.

I think with him, if he get drafted in syatem that can develop, he can unlock his talent. I trust the spurs devlopment and if they beleive he can be a special player take a shot.

[talkspurs]

Yeah, Garza probably won't make it but put me in the camp who wouldn't mind the Spurs picking him in the second round. A highly skilled, shooting center with the experience of being the focal point of an offense and had success even though every team designed their gameplan to stop him? It's not impossible that he ends up sticking in the NBA. I wouldn't give him much more than a 10% chance ... but that's true for any second round pick.

What you put is why he will make it. Look at Poeltl. If you have good defense you can make it. it may take some time but if he gets a fair shot he will stick. He is kind of like white in the fact that every where he is underrated. I would put him at staying in the NBA at 40%. mostly so low because I dont know if he will get a solid chance.

[BackHome]

My top 5 would be:
1. James Bouknight - Instant offense
2. Karl Franz Wagner - Just a very good basketball player smart/good handles for a SF
3. Alperen Sengun - Kid is only 18 and is to good to pass
4. Jaden Springer - Can start with second unit easy
5. Tre Jone - Think him and Tre could really work with the second unit

My has potential but could easily be a bust:
1. Josh Giddey - G
2. Zaire Williams - SF
3. Kai Jones - PF/C

My second round wants:
1. Joe Wieskamp - SF
2. Quentin Grimes - SG
3. Vrenz Bleijenbergh SF/PF

[BatManu20]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuIs6dl19Hw

The more I watch Bouknight, the more I believe he's going to be the best scorer from this draft. If you need a bucket, give it to Bouk.


Low key my pet favorite of the draft. I think he’ll be gone by the time we pick, but if he’s there, I’m taking him and not looking back. Putting a pure scorer like that in the backcourt with White would be fun.

[BatManu20]

I’m off the Giddey train. Horrible defender, non-athlete, will struggle defensively anytime he’s on the floor, and his jump shoot looks terrible and awkward. He’s a nice passer and sees the floor but he’s going to get destroyed in the PnR once he plays NBA level athletes. I’m passing tbh.

[slick'81]

No lottery for us boys,the playoffs await

[exstatic]

No lottery for us boys,the playoffs await

:lol. We’re not even out of the 9/10 sudden death playin game.

[slick'81]

:lol. We’re not even out of the 9/10 sudden death playin game.


:rollin... too late,im buying into spurs Oman theory and were getting that playoff birth. Derozan is enfuego and patty mills will will this team to victory.i have spurs fever. Or maybe its the pfizer vaccine i took earlier

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1387031081644290049

I didn't realize Sengun couldn't speak English very well.

IMO, that would increase his development time.

Just looking at how Luka was brought in and the time it took for him to get acclimated with the culture, and how to fit in socially, and it may look like the same thing with Sengun. Not to mention communicating with assistant coaches, understanding the playbook, and so forth. I suppose it would be hard to get information about how he is in the locker room, and if he isn't another Porzingas (toxic personality-type).

[The Truth #6]

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1387031081644290049

I didn't realize Sengun couldn't speak English very well.

IMO, that would increase his development time.

Just looking at how Luka was brought in and the time it took for him to get acclimated with the culture, and how to fit in socially, and it may look like the same thing with Sengun. Not to mention communicating with assistant coaches, understanding the playbook, and so forth. I suppose it would be hard to get information about how he is in the locker room, and if he isn't another Porzingas (toxic personality-type).


Interesting. Perhaps if that interpreter comes with him, he will be happy. I remember that The Great Wall of China Mengke Bateer had an interpreter with him, so there's at least a history of doing that, but yeah, that could delay things, but might be beneficial in the longterm considering how young he is.

[Dejounte]

From the article:

"Teams shouldn't draft Sengun expecting the next Jokic. But they should make an effort to learn from the mistakes that were made when evaluating Jokic: overvaluing physical traits and undervaluing the hands, touch, instincts, feel for the game and confidence to take risks. Sengun doesn't have Jokic's size, length or elite court vision, and there's much more of a track record for Serbian prospects than Turkish prospects. Coming from a small town in Turkey where learning English isn't always a priority, Sengun still speaks little to no English, which will surely elongate his transition to the NBA."

The bolded part is exactly what I say about prospects criticized for their lack of athleticism.

[BackHome]

I will always take a baller over an athlete, and I will always take an athletic baller over just a baller, and I would take an athletic baller with great measurements over just an athletic baller.

As far as Sengun not to worried about his English it’s not like Pop is going to let him play with the big kids anyway he like every other player we draft will be G League bound.

With White being out I changed my picks as we slip in standings
1. Moody
2. Bouknight
3. Sengun
4. Karl Franz Wagner

Would be happy with any of the above

[The Truth #6]

From the article:

"Teams shouldn't draft Sengun expecting the next Jokic. But they should make an effort to learn from the mistakes that were made when evaluating Jokic: overvaluing physical traits and undervaluing the hands, touch, instincts, feel for the game and confidence to take risks. Sengun doesn't have Jokic's size, length or elite court vision, and there's much more of a track record for Serbian prospects than Turkish prospects. Coming from a small town in Turkey where learning English isn't always a priority, Sengun still speaks little to no English, which will surely elongate his transition to the NBA."

The bolded part is exactly what I say about prospects criticized for their lack of athleticism.

That probably depends on position at least a little I would think. That was my first thought. But maybe not. An unathletic PG feels like a doomed scenario and someone like Jokic can get by better with poor foot speed because he’s a post player. But yeah n defense it’s hard to hide. So maybe Giddey survives on the court? He would need defensive instincts I would imagine.

[duncan2150]

I will always take a baller over an athlete, and I will always take an athletic baller over just a baller, and I would take an athletic baller with great measurements over just an athletic baller.

As far as Sengun not to worried about his English it’s not like Pop is going to let him play with the big kids anyway he like every other player we draft will be G League bound.

With White being out I changed my picks as we slip in standings
1. Moody
2. Bouknight
3. Sengun
4. Karl Franz Wagner

Would be happy with any of the above

I'm with you on this, i will probably add Scottie Barnes somewhere. Imo the physical tools plus the passing ability are really good.

[exstatic]

I'm with you on this, i will probably add Scottie Barnes somewhere. Imo the physical tools plus the passing ability are really good.

To be a high level passer in the NBA, you need at least the threat and ability to create for yourself, and I see no path there.

[duncan2150]

To be a high level passer in the NBA, you need at least the threat and ability to create for yourself, and I see no path there.

A young player can still develop himseld in a lot of areas, he will not be JJ reddick but you see what Draymond Green is doing with no shoot or offensive game.

[TD 21]

Even if you're a Murray-White back court believer or "truther", White's lack of durability is why picking another guard should absolutely be in play in the draft.

Beyond the obvious need for a star, there's a need for another creator period. Johnson may yet grow into it, but they can't go into next season without another creator in DeRozan's stead.

[ace3g]

Official now

Adrian Wojnarowski @wojespn
(https://twitter.com/wojespn) 2m (https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1387180361847910404)
ESPN Story: Josh Giddey – a playmaking 6-foot-8 Australian guard – is entering the 2021 NBA Draft. Giddey is the No. 13 player in the ESPN Top 100 and could climb in the draft lottery. es.pn/3xv3z6f (https://t.co/w1Vvg5xVbt)

[R. DeMurre]

From the article:

"Teams shouldn't draft Sengun expecting the next Jokic. But they should make an effort to learn from the mistakes that were made when evaluating Jokic: overvaluing physical traits and undervaluing the hands, touch, instincts, feel for the game and confidence to take risks. Sengun doesn't have Jokic's size, length or elite court vision, and there's much more of a track record for Serbian prospects than Turkish prospects. Coming from a small town in Turkey where learning English isn't always a priority, Sengun still speaks little to no English, which will surely elongate his transition to the NBA."

The bolded part is exactly what I say about prospects criticized for their lack of athleticism.

I've noticed lately whenever I listen to the announcers of opposing teams playing the Spurs that they always emphasize how Lonnie Walker is an athlete. It's never whoa, his handles, or lights out shooter or lock down D... it's always athlete.

[Dejounte]

To be honest, I'm more open to drafting Duarte at this point, since the range will probably be mid to late teens.

Lonnie's not giving us the flexibility we need in case one or a couple guards are gone / injured.


https://youtu.be/Zj-jNGkPwmY

Who cares about his age? We need more players who can score from anywhere.

[exstatic]

To be honest, I'm more open to drafting Duarte at this point, since the range will probably be mid to late teens.

Lonnie's not giving us the flexibility we need in case one or a couple guards are gone / injured.


https://youtu.be/Zj-jNGkPwmY

Who cares about his age? We need more players who can score from anywhere.

I think you’re underestimating our pick placement. If White is out for more than a few games, we not only won’t climb any higher, we’ll likely fall as far as we can, #10. That being said, I wouldn’t hate flipping Lonny for a later pick in the 20s to pick Duarte. I’m just exhausted with Lonnie’s standard 3 game points breakout of 25-3-5.

[mo7888]

I think you’re underestimating our pick placement. If White is out for more than a few games, we not only won’t climb any higher, we’ll likely fall as far as we can, #10. That being said, I wouldn’t hate flipping Lonny for a later pick in the 20s to pick Duarte. I’m just exhausted with Lonnie’s standard 3 game points breakout of 25-3-5.

NY, with 2 picks coming behind us, is a pretty good target for a Lonnie trade like that.

[timvp]

To be honest, I'm more open to drafting Duarte at this point, since the range will probably be mid to late teens.

Lonnie's not giving us the flexibility we need in case one or a couple guards are gone / injured.


https://youtu.be/Zj-jNGkPwmY

Who cares about his age? We need more players who can score from anywhere.

:lol I know what you mean. Watching Duarte is such a breath of fresh air compared to the other flawed prospect after the top five. By draft time, I might have to agree that if a few certain prospects are off the board and the Spurs are somewhere around 13 or 14, going with Duarte makes too much sense.

He's damn old but he took a weird route to where he is, so he's not like a typical old prospect who stuck around until he figured it out and had a maturity advantage. Duarte is still relatively new on the scene. When watching him, it's difficult not to see a bigger Derrick White type of player.

[Robz4000]

:lol I know what you mean. Watching Duarte is such a breath of fresh air compared to the other flawed prospect after the top five. By draft time, I might have to agree that if a few certain prospects are off the board and the Spurs are somewhere around 13 or 14, going with Duarte makes too much sense.

He's damn old but he took a weird route to where he is, so he's not like a typical old prospect who stuck around until he figured it out and had a maturity advantage. Duarte is still relatively new on the scene. When watching him, it's difficult not to see a bigger Derrick White type of player.

Age-wise he fits right in with Murray tbh. Only issue is if Pop is still around and benches him his entire rookie season.

[Dejounte]

Never watched Quentin Grimes, but damn his advanced metrics blow the top 5 SGs out of the water. Likely has to do with the strength of schedule, but still.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=james-bouknight--jalen-green--quentin-grimes--keon-johnson--moses-moody

[The Truth #6]

I saw Grimes was linked to us as a potential 2nd round pick. Makes sense. So does Duarte as a target. I could see us picking Duarte first round, and then a Unicorn in the second round, like Vrenz Bleijenbergh.

[Dejounte]

I saw Grimes was linked to us as a potential 2nd round pick. Makes sense. So does Duarte as a target. I could see us picking Duarte first round, and then a Unicorn in the second round, like Vrenz Bleijenbergh.

I actually watched a bit of Grimes just now. What an awful player. Commits stupid fouls. Can't dribble. Basically a homeless man's Danny Green.

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/3zcVry0xENo

My sleeper pick

Probably not with a high lottery pick, but perhaps a mid lottery one.

The perfect modern four. Quick enough, physically imposing enough, has a nose for the ball, can shoot. Just the right mix.

[The Truth #6]

Interesting. I will look into him. I like the Villanova pedigree, usually a good sign.

[duncan2150]

https://youtu.be/3zcVry0xENo

My sleeper pick

Probably not with a high lottery pick, but perhaps a mid lottery one.

The perfect modern four. Quick enough, physically imposing enough, has a nose for the ball, can shoot. Just the right mix.


Really like him too, i don't understand why he is so low on some mocks.

[Dejounte]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgdXXaXBMWc

[exstatic]

Really like him too, i don't understand why he is so low on some mocks.

His wingspan isn’t long, and he seems to only be gifted on the offensive side of the ball. Most of his deficits start with the word defense or the letter D.

He also shoots 28% from 3. That’s DeRozan territory.

[Dejounte]

A lot of players in past drafts were listed as PF or even SF but ended up playing C. Let's take a look:

2016
Marquese Chriss - Listed as a PF, ended up playing C
Domantas Sabonis - Listed PF, plays C in NBA

2018
JJJ - Listed as PF, plays C in NBA
Wendell Carter - Listed as PF, plays C in NBA

2019
DeAndre Hunter - Listed as SF, plays PF in NBA

2020
Isaiah Stewart - Listed as PF, plays C in NBA
Precious Achiua - Listed as PF, plays C in NBA

I'm sure I'm missing some more...

IMO, in 2021
Kai Jones is listed as PF/C but will likely play full time C
Isaiah Jackson is listed as PF/C but will likely play full time C
Filip Petrusev is listed as PF/C but will likely play full time C

[Dejounte]

His wingspan isn’t long, and he seems to only be gifted on the offensive side of the ball. Most of his deficits start with the word defense or the letter D.

He also shoots 28% from 3. That’s DeRozan territory.

DeRozan territory is defined as a player who hesitates to shoot from 3.

People read too much into percentages, dismissing shooting form, hot streaks and cold streaks.

Just admit you went straight to his stats and didn't spend a minute watching how he plays.

[exstatic]

DeRozan territory is defined as a player who hesitates to shoot from 3.

People read too much into percentages, dismissing shooting form, hot streaks and cold streaks.

Just admit you went straight to his stats and didn't spend a minute watching how he plays.

It’s a highlight video. OF COURSE HE’S GOING TO LOOK GOOD.

I’m going to have to start calling you Bob Bass, the guy who drafted Alfrederick Hughes, the NCAA scoring champ who is one of the worst draft picks, not just in Spurs history, but NBA history. You can’t project college production into the NBA. Very few stats carry up to the next level. Three point shooting, which he sucks at, and rebounding, and maybe blocks and steals.

This kid has three trajectories: back to school, second round, or Undrafted. Feel free to bump this if I’m wrong.

[Dejounte]

It’s a highlight video. OF COURSE HE’S GOING TO LOOK GOOD.

I’m going to have to start calling you Bob Bass, the guy who drafted Alfrederick Hughes, the NCAA scoring champ who is one of the worst draft picks, not just in Spurs history, but NBA history. You can’t project college production into the NBA. Very few stats carry up to the next level. Three point shooting, which he sucks at, and rebounding, and maybe blocks and steals.

This kid has three trajectories: back to school, second round, or Undrafted. Feel free to bump this if I’m wrong.

Who said I was using his stats to project his level of play in the NBA? You're the one who brought up his percentages. I'm the one who pointed out that shooting form, and shooting streaks are more important than focusing on stats.

I wasn't asking you to watch the video I posted. You can find full games of Villanova easily. In fact, it isn't even true that the video contains just good highlights. They included all of his blunders.

[The Truth #6]

I don't know anything about this kid except for that highlight video, but I was surprised his 3 pt % was low. His shooting form looked pretty solid to me with a high release. I've seen him ranked all over the place, from late first round to 2nd round.

Anyway, this thread is the only interesting one left on the forum. Everything else is rehashed trash, basically. Dejounte, I'm glad you keep finding more players to discuss.

[The Truth #6]

Some more analysis of James Robinson-Earl, which paints him as a high motor, high IQ player. His main negative seems to be average wingspan. There could be worse things. This article actually praises his defensive acumen. He doesn't seem to be a player that is discussed much. Villanova players in the second round seem like solid players to consider. The coaching style there seems to be good for a transition to the NBA, especially for role players.

Scroll to the bottom half of the article. (The top half of the article is about George Hill, though it praises his Spurs training, which is interesting to read from an outside perspective).

https://thepaintedlines.com/exploring-george-hills-role-in-philadelphia-and-a-jeremiah-robinson-earl-scouting-report/

[Dejounte]

Some more analysis of James Robinson-Earl, which paints him as a high motor, high IQ player. His main negative seems to be average wingspan. There could be worse things. This article actually praises his defensive acumen. He doesn't seem to be a player that is discussed much. Villanova players in the second round seem like solid players to consider. The coaching style there seems to be good for a transition to the NBA, especially for role players.

Scroll to the bottom half of the article. (The top half of the article is about George Hill, though it praises his Spurs training, which is interesting to read from an outside perspective).

https://thepaintedlines.com/exploring-george-hills-role-in-philadelphia-and-a-jeremiah-robinson-earl-scouting-report/

To me, he's basically a bigger (shorter wingspan) version of Saddiq Bey who isn't as skilled at 3-point shooting, but probably is a better defender. Saddiq is very overrated on defense.

What types of players do power forwards guard these days? Keldon was mostly matched up with Duncan Robinson and Jimmy Butler last night. I think having a plus wingspan isn't that important these days, you've just got to be able to be mobile and strong. Height + Standing reach helps too.

[exstatic]

Who said I was using his stats to project his level of play in the NBA? You're the one who brought up his percentages. I'm the one who pointed out that shooting form, and shooting streaks are more important than focusing on stats.

I wasn't asking you to watch the video I posted. You can find full games of Villanova easily. In fact, it isn't even true that the video contains just good highlights. They included all of his blunders.

The only % I looked at was 3 point. I don’t hate him, but I don’t see him as a first rounder, let alone a lottery pick.

[The Truth #6]

To me, he's basically a bigger (shorter wingspan) version of Saddiq Bey who isn't as skilled at 3-point shooting, but probably is a better defender. Saddiq is very overrated on defense.

What types of players do power forwards guard these days? Keldon was mostly matched up with Duncan Robinson and Jimmy Butler last night. I think having a plus wingspan isn't that important these days, you've just got to be able to be mobile and strong. Height + Standing reach helps too.

Switchability is the key and his draft profile seems to suggest he would be good at this. But there isn't much scouting video on him, so like I said I'm still figuring him out.

A power/combo forward in the second round makes sense to me, especially if we take a guard with the first pick.

I could see him rise in the rankings. Not lottery, but maybe late first round.

As for the Spurs, I don't know what they will do with their pick. They aren't getting into the top 5, even with dangling someone like IV in a trade scenario. I think focusing on skill is a good way to approach our first round pick. Duarte. Wagner. Those seem like Spurs type of picks. It's possible Kai Jones could fall to us, which poses an interesting dilemma.

Anyway. I digress...

[Dejounte]

Switchability is the key and his draft profile seems to suggest he would be good at this. But there isn't much scouting video on him, so like I said I'm still figuring him out.

A power/combo forward in the second round makes sense to me, especially if we take a guard with the first pick.

I could see him rise in the rankings. Not lottery, but maybe late first round.

As for the Spurs, I don't know what they will do with their pick. They aren't getting into the top 5, even with dangling someone like IV in a trade scenario. I think focusing on skill is a good way to approach our first round pick. Duarte. Wagner. Those seem like Spurs type of picks. It's possible Kai Jones could fall to us, which poses an interesting dilemma.

Anyway. I digress...

Agreed. The Spurs should focus on getting players that are the opposite of what they have on the roster right now. They beat themselves often by sheer stupidity. There was a play last night where they left a man wide open for a three, he missed, and then Dedmon, who was surrounded by three Spurs players, outrebounded all three AND was fouled by Patty fucking Mills for an And1. Rudy Gay has these kinds of plays a lot too. No more dumbasses on this team, please.

[R. DeMurre]

The nba draft room scouting report on him is such an exercise in passive aggressive writing :lol--
It gives a relatively complimentary report on his skills, and then ends with two player comparisons: Michael Beasley lite, and Ed O'Bannon. Ouch. There's no way, out of all the players who've passed through the draft in the last few decades, that you pick those two (and add that horrible lite!) without meaning to send a message.

I like the little I've seen from him, and am looking forward to looking at more before the draft.

https://nbadraftroom.com/p/jeremiah-robinson-earl/

[Dejounte]

The nba draft room scouting report on him is such an exercise in passive aggressive writing :lol--
It gives a relatively complimentary report on his skills, and then ends with two player comparisons: Michael Beasley lite, and Ed O'Bannon. Ouch. There's no way, out of all the players who've passed through the draft in the last few decades, that you pick those two (and add that horrible lite!) without meaning to send a message.

I like the little I've seen from him, and am looking forward to looking at more before the draft.

https://nbadraftroom.com/p/jeremiah-robinson-earl/


Ahh see this is what I mentioned earlier. I hate that they put Isaiah and Kai under PF rankings. $100 bucks says that's not what they'll be in the NBA.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/_proinsight/status/1387799195403227136?s=19

[The Truth #6]

I am all in on Vrenz for the second round pick. Since our guards aren't the best passers, I find it crucial to find it from other positions. Vrenz seems to have a great feel for the game. Honestly, I could be talked into Giddey/Vrenz with 1st round and 2nd round picks. Getting our expiring vets off the team will improve our defense immediately, as defense is something I still want to prioritize while we continue to look for our star anchor to build around.

[rjv]

It’s a highlight video. OF COURSE HE’S GOING TO LOOK GOOD.

I’m going to have to start calling you Bob Bass, the guy who drafted Alfrederick Hughes, the NCAA scoring champ who is one of the worst draft picks, not just in Spurs history, but NBA history. You can’t project college production into the NBA. Very few stats carry up to the next level. Three point shooting, which he sucks at, and rebounding, and maybe blocks and steals.

This kid has three trajectories: back to school, second round, or Undrafted. Feel free to bump this if I’m wrong.

to be fair to the late bob bass, i think someone had "spiked the nachos".

[The Truth #6]

Interview with Jeremiah Robinson Earl that screams Spurs material: https://www.inquirer.com/college-sports/villanova/villanova-wildcats-jeremiah-robinson-earl-college-basketball-big-east-rookie-year-kobe-bryant-idol-fundamentals-20210206.html

[exstatic]

https://twitter.com/_proinsight/status/1387799195403227136?s=19

Thanks. That was interesting.

[BackHome]

I am all in on Vrenz for the second round pick. Since our guards aren't the best passers, I find it crucial to find it from other positions. Vrenz seems to have a great feel for the game. Honestly, I could be talked into Giddey/Vrenz with 1st round and 2nd round picks. Getting our expiring vets off the team will improve our defense immediately, as defense is something I still want to prioritize while we continue to look for our star anchor to build around.

Yeah I mentioned him earlier I think people are saying he is a second round pick but he might squeeze into the first. If he is there when we draft second round I would pick him all day every day. Watch some of his vids he is a smart player has good handles and very good court vision for a big. I think he is a averaging 40% for 3 balls so he is a good shooter who has good handles. I like how he really want to get better he seems like a player who is not scared of the spot light and who is willing to do what he has to to get better.

I agree with a lot of posters we need to get players with better Ball IQ and also better handles and someone who can hit I the 3 ball I think he does that and would be a great pick. At far as Giddey I like the kid just have some reservations on how his defense would translate to the NBA him and Sengun are kinda in the same boat as far as defense and talent.

[FutureMan]

Spurs need reliable shooters aka above 35% from 3, a player who can hit free throws since they are giving up way too many free points (so above 80%), and not turn the dang ball over all the time (so under 2 per game). So far the only ones I’m seeing are:

1. Wanger
2. Kispert
3. Duarte

Jaden Springer looks alright but his turnovers are iffy. Is there anyone else out there or anyone who only missing one piece and can be improved?

[The Truth #6]

Yeah I mentioned him earlier I think people are saying he is a second round pick but he might squeeze into the first. If he is there when we draft second round I would pick him all day every day. Watch some of his vids he is a smart player has good handles and very good court vision for a big. I think he is a averaging 40% for 3 balls so he is a good shooter who has good handles. I like how he really want to get better he seems like a player who is not scared of the spot light and who is willing to do what he has to to get better.

I agree with a lot of posters we need to get players with better Ball IQ and also better handles and someone who can hit I the 3 ball I think he does that and would be a great pick. At far as Giddey I like the kid just have some reservations on how his defense would translate to the NBA him and Sengun are kinda in the same boat as far as defense and talent.


Yeah. Duarte/Vrenz wouldn't be bad. I'm also curious about the Villanova guy Dejounte mentioned today, Jeremiah Robinson Earl. I see Jeremiah and wonder why he is so low, and then see Wagner and wonder why he is projected so high. Outside the top 5 it seems slippery, and I actually think there was more talent last year after the top 5.

[Dejounte]

Yeah. Duarte/Vrenz wouldn't be bad. I'm also curious about the Villanova guy Dejounte mentioned today, Jeremiah Robinson Earl. I see Jeremiah and wonder why he is so low, and then see Wagner and wonder why he is projected so high. Outside the top 5 it seems slippery, and I actually think there was more talent last year after the top 5.

JRE went on a cold shooting streak to end the season. Plus, Wagner's team was top 3 in the nation. I like Wagner more because he's more of a creator, whereas this guy needs his shots to be created for him. Not to say he can't take the ball to the hoop, JRE is decent in the post. My dream would be to get both. IMO, JRE blows everyone else projected in the second. Would be a steal if we get him there.

[The Truth #6]

Jason Preston, junior point guard for Ohio. A late bloomer. Feels like another Derrick White type story. Interesting skills.

https://youtu.be/Mh2cu_YNXnE

[Mr. Body]

Vrenz has all the markings of someone who doesn't just sneak into the 1st round, but goes higher than people here are expecting.

[Indianman]

So, I'd like to hear the opinions of people with greater knowledge than myself and begin a discussion about how would the SpursTalk favourites Nate Renfro and Robert Woodard fit into these scheme of things. What say Dejounte?

[exstatic]

So, I'd like to hear the opinions of people with greater knowledge than myself and begin a discussion about how would the SpursTalk favourites Nate Renfro and Robert Woodard fit into these scheme of things. What say Dejounte?

Woodward is Sacramento property, loaned to the baby Spurs, since only 17 out of 29 gleague teams participated in the Gubble.

[The Truth #6]

Jason Preston, junior point guard for Ohio. A late bloomer. Feels like another Derrick White type story. Interesting skills.

https://youtu.be/Mh2cu_YNXnE



I was half asleep when I posted this last night. Having looked at it again, I'm even more impressed. What a find, at least from this one video from Draft Junkies, which in my opinion does a great job of curating a players multiple skills, not just simple dunks over and over again.

His strengths:

Ridiculous 3 point range, though his mechanics looks goofy, it goes in.

Great feel for the game.

Great off-ball cutter.

Great PnR initiator.

Solid finisher in the open court.

Amazing court vision and passing.


I see him as a riser. His measurables probably won't be great with fast twitch explosion and wingspan. But there's enough videos of him receiving alley-oops and throwing it down in the lane, that I think he isn't horribly below average.

Giddey is getting hyped, probably for scouts "missing" on LaMelo and Halliburton. I see Preston as perhaps more of a Halliburton analogue then Giddey.

Preston had a good tournament, so I'm looking for more video and analysis of him, but pretty impressed from what I've seen so far. Hopefully, he isn't a Forbes on defense.

Another link: https://youtu.be/ry9ycT7OPfo

[mo7888]

So, I'd like to hear the opinions of people with greater knowledge than myself and begin a discussion about how would the SpursTalk favourites Nate Renfro and Robert Woodard fit into these scheme of things. What say Dejounte?

Woodard would it nicely but, it would require a trade and I don't see that happening.

[Dejounte]

So, I'd like to hear the opinions of people with greater knowledge than myself and begin a discussion about how would the SpursTalk favourites Nate Renfro and Robert Woodard fit into these scheme of things. What say Dejounte (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=51342)?

Renfro's only hope of cracking the main roster is if he's improves his 3-point shooting this offseason. From what I've seen on social media, he is hard at work at it. We all know that if he does crack the main roster, that he'll start off by being the 3rd string PF on the team and will only get minutes sparingly. So, right now assuming Lyles is gone... he has Keldon, Luka, and Gay in front of him. Gay would have to be gone AND the Spurs would not use any significant cap space on a PF for Renfro to have a chance at making the main roster. I think the C rotation is already set, so that's why I think he has no chance there.

[R. DeMurre]

It's been so interesting watching Julius Randle emerge this year as a legitimately good & well rounded player-- seven years after getting drafted. At this point I think I like him better than Collins or Markkanen. It kinda has me thinking that the FO needs to get better/more aggressive at making trades. It's really hard to rebuild using the draft exclusively, and never making a move to bring in a guy that's already there or just about to peak.

[Russ]

It's been so interesting watching Julius Randle emerge this year as a legitimately good & well rounded player-- seven years after getting drafted. At this point I think I like him better than Collins or Markkanen. It kinda has me thinking that the FO needs to get better/more aggressive at making trades. It's really hard to rebuild using the draft exclusively, and never making a move to bring in a guy that's already there or just about to peak.

Randle was the young Laker actually attainable by the Spurs (or anyone) a few years ago.

He's also the type of physical presence the Spurs have been sorely missing for those same last few years. He could make the Spurs a different type of team.

He could have been had, we just didn't want him.

[Dejounte]

It's been so interesting watching Julius Randle emerge this year as a legitimately good & well rounded player-- seven years after getting drafted. At this point I think I like him better than Collins or Markkanen. It kinda has me thinking that the FO needs to get better/more aggressive at making trades. It's really hard to rebuild using the draft exclusively, and never making a move to bring in a guy that's already there or just about to peak.


Randle was the young Laker actually attainable by the Spurs (or anyone) a few years ago.

He's also the type of physical presence the Spurs have been sorely missing for those same last few years. He could make the Spurs a different type of team.

He could have been had, we just didn't want him.

All the credit to Julius for his improvement, but the NBA did shift into a style where his skills would be way more useful than any other time in the league (including his first three years in the NBA). There's a very small pool in the NBA right now and in the upcoming draft which fits his archetype. Keep in mind, he's only 6'8". So maybe we should be more open to prospects who are that size for the PF position. Is Sengun as mobile as Randle? Hmm...

Would love to see Samanic shut him down again.

https://twitter.com/TheTyJager/status/1366939969118498820?s=19

[mo7888]

All the credit to Julius for his improvement, but the NBA did shift into a style where his skills would be way more useful than any other time in the league (including his first three years in the NBA). There's a very small pool in the NBA right now and in the upcoming draft which fits his archetype. Keep in mind, he's only 6'8". So maybe we should be more open to prospects who are that size for the PF position. Is Sengun as mobile as Randle? Hmm...

Would love to see Samanic shut him down again.

https://twitter.com/TheTyJager/status/1366939969118498820?s=19

So you see Sengun's comp as more Randle than Joker? That's interesting...

[Dejounte]

So you see Sengun's comp as more Randle than Joker? That's interesting...

No, I don't think Sengun and Randle are that much alike. I just think there's a big size (height and girth) disparity between Sengun and Jokic for Sengun to play anything like Jokic in the NBA. Jokic sees over people easily and not to mention has one of the best vision for centers to ever play the game. Sengun has passing skills, but he's got a lot to show before he can sniff Jokic's elite passing ability. What I was merely saying is that I believe Sengun should shape his game to be more like Julius in order to thrive in the NBA because of his size limitations. Sengun plays a lot more in the post than Julius does, and I think that should change.

[R. DeMurre]

Tankathon has the Spurs picking Sengun in their mock. I went back last night and read a bunch of the scouting reports on Jokic the year he came out-- very interesting, with a consensus agreement that he'd be too slow on D to ever be an impact player in the NBA... but I do think the Jokic comparison gets thrown around a little too much these days. He might literally the best passing big man of all time, so it's hard to picture too many prospects living up to that.

[KobesAchilles]

It's been so interesting watching Julius Randle emerge this year as a legitimately good & well rounded player-- seven years after getting drafted. At this point I think I like him better than Collins or Markkanen. It kinda has me thinking that the FO needs to get better/more aggressive at making trades. It's really hard to rebuild using the draft exclusively, and never making a move to bring in a guy that's already there or just about to peak.
Yeah I mean as weird as it sounds, the Lakers were ran worse than the Knicks at that point. They just are lucky that Hollywood is in town bc they have zero player development. As a vet, I would love to play for the Lakers but as a youth, it's a pretty shitty place to be developed as far as the beginning of your career goes. The one things Thibs does elite is coach up young players that are willing to work. And you can see that with Randle.

That being said, I have been screaming my head off about us getting Randle and how we needed to get him and how he would be an amazing fit. I even said last year we should trade DDR for Randle even though the Knicks screwed us over. I've wanted Randle on our team for years now. But the contract he gets from the Knicks in 2022 is going to be ridiculous. He is going to be getting the max there and he isn't THAT type of player.

[rankingtear]

I can see Jared Butler for that sixth man Patty role or a designated shooter Bryn role in that starting lineup. After Moody and Wagner , Butler maybe the next high floor player with some upside. Hard to find that combination of versatile shooting with maybe plus defense. Duarte is another good pick on that mold. Too much question marks on prospects 6 onwards that getting that high floor prospect with creation upside might be the better play.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Jason Preston, junior point guard for Ohio. A late bloomer. Feels like another Derrick White type story. Interesting skills.

https://youtu.be/Mh2cu_YNXnE

That pass at 11:32 is legit.

[exstatic]

I can see Jared Butler for that sixth man Patty role or a designated shooter Bryn role in that starting lineup. After Moody and Wagner , Butler maybe the next high floor player with some upside. Hard to find that combination of versatile shooting with maybe plus defense. Duarte is another good pick on that mold. Too much question marks on prospects 6 onwards that getting that high floor prospect with creation upside might be the better play.
For this role, and a high floor, I’d rather have Duarte. He has better size, too, at 6’6”.

[BackHome]

Tankathon has the Spurs picking Sengun in their mock. I went back last night and read a bunch of the scouting reports on Jokic the year he came out-- very interesting, with a consensus agreement that he'd be too slow on D to ever be an impact player in the NBA... but I do think the Jokic comparison gets thrown around a little too much these days. He might literally the best passing big man of all time, so it's hard to picture too many prospects living up to that.

Was just going through Tankathon player reviews of top 14 players, and one thing that I found interesting is that out of every draft pick from number 1 to number 14 - Sengun has some of the highest strengths and has the least amount of weaknesses out of all the top 14 picks. Take it for what’s its worth but to me that’s kinda impressive for an 18 year old kid

[Dejounte]

Was just going through Tankathon player reviews of top 14 players, and one thing that I found interesting is that out of every draft pick from number 1 to number 14 - Sengun has some of the highest strengths and has the least amount of weaknesses out of all the top 14 picks. Take it for what’s its worth but to me that’s kinda impressive for an 18 year old kid

Those weren't strengths and weaknesses based off any form of scouting. They are "stat strengths and weaknesses". They also scaled the stats to NCAA numbers. That means it's only a strength if it's above the mean of all prospects in their respective stats. Highly unreliable.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/alperen-sengun

[BackHome]

Dejounte you just broke my bubble :dizzy

[mo7888]

I can see Jared Butler for that sixth man Patty role or a designated shooter Bryn role in that starting lineup. After Moody and Wagner , Butler maybe the next high floor player with some upside. Hard to find that combination of versatile shooting with maybe plus defense. Duarte is another good pick on that mold. Too much question marks on prospects 6 onwards that getting that high floor prospect with creation upside might be the better play.

I like both players...depending on what we do with our young guys I could see either fitting in. I see Duarte as more of a 2/3 and Butler as more of a 1/2... He reminds me a little bit of George Hill.

[Dejounte]

Last night:


https://youtu.be/aH21i8Cl9XA

[The Truth #6]

IF the Spurs draft Giddey, it creates an awkward situation with Dejounte Murray. DM is still growing, but I see a ceiling for him as the person in control of the ball, and he isn’t the star we need. Like DDR, DM needs the ball in his hands. Honestly, I see similar ceilings. We’ve seen the challenges with DM dominating the ball, but it hasn’t been discussed much. It’s felt quietly in White’s absence. So, if we would draft Giddey, should they trade DM at the same time? They wouldn’t of course. But this draft needs to be done with some semblance of a vision for the team. I have doubts the FO is ready to make big decisions. Maybe it’s too early of course, but this season has been a headache of roster/playing time decisions. Not looking forward to more years of this lack of direction. Maybe it truly is focusing on defense. I like that. But I have doubts about DM’s ability to adapt to team’s needs in the same way I do with DDR, basically.

Just throwing out ideas.

[Kurgan]

For someone that's supposed to be a playmaker, Giddey's handle looks shakey. Not NBA level. And he's extremely unathletic. Wonder if people are making the same mistake they made with Avdija - they see a white guy that can pass and assume he'll be the next Doncic.

[Dejounte]

IF the Spurs draft Giddey, it creates an awkward situation with Dejounte Murray. DM is still growing, but I see a ceiling for him as the person in control of the ball, and he isn’t the star we need. Like DDR, DM needs the ball in his hands. Honestly, I see similar ceilings. We’ve seen the challenges with DM dominating the ball, but it hasn’t been discussed much. It’s felt quietly in White’s absence. So, if we would draft Giddey, should they trade DM at the same time? They wouldn’t of course. But this draft needs to be done with some semblance of a vision for the team. I have doubts the FO is ready to make big decisions. Maybe it’s too early of course, but this season has been a headache of roster/playing time decisions. Not looking forward to more years of this lack of direction. Maybe it truly is focusing on defense. I like that. But I have doubts about DM’s ability to adapt to team’s needs in the same way I do with DDR, basically.

Just throwing out ideas.

There's been shared usage of playmaking for years now, I don't think that's suddenly going to change with DJ growing up or with DeMar leaving so I don't see where this perception comes from where the team is going to be overreliant on DJ being the main ballhandler. The offense isn't going to restructure itself from having multiple ballhandlers. The only thing that will likely change is who gets the ball in the clutch.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/Mike_Schmitz/status/1388493031855124484?s=19

[The Truth #6]

There's been shared usage of playmaking for years now, I don't think that's suddenly going to change with DJ growing up or with DeMar leaving so I don't see where this perception comes from where the team is going to be overreliant on DJ being the main ballhandler. The offense isn't going to restructure itself from having multiple ballhandlers. The only thing that will likely change is who gets the ball in the clutch.

I would quibble that the team is already over reliant on DJ pounding the ball, and it is less shared playmaking and more shared going one on one whoever has the ball. The team is crying out for a pure play maker which is why Giddey makes sense, even if he has some bust potential. But then once you get a player like that, how do you best utilize them, and what does that say about the roles of other players? It’s obviously a difficult dynamic question with no easy answer. I’m just throwing ideas around.

If Giddey pans out it could elevate the play of many of our players. So I see it could be very positive as well.

[bluebellmaniac]

89 days until the draft.

[timvp]

-I've been watching dem Baylor boys. For Spurs purposes, I like Butler better than Mitchell. Stroke looks really good. Low release but it's so fast that I don't think it'll matter. Strong instincts on both ends with a superior basketball IQ. He's an inch taller and a year younger than Mitchell. Butler could easily slide into a bench role as the new age version of Mills/Forbes. If his shooting is as good as advertised, the rest of the game should make him a strong bench player for years. The issue with Butler is his ceiling isn't that enticing. I'd feel better drafting him at around 20 than in the lottery. But, then again, if you just want a dude who knows how to play basketball without any major flaws and you think Duarte is too old, Butler is one of the better prospects remaining in that scenario. Don't see him being a starter but he should be a useful bench piece. He also gets bonus points because he checks that high-character box the Spurs look for.

-Mitchell ... it'd be difficult for me to co-sign spending a lottery pick on him. Strip away the national championship media hype and he's basically a worse version of Derrick White at Colorado. Impressive defender but I think his shooting could have been a fluke (low free throw percentage, low shooting percentages before this season). Being a bad rebounder and bad at getting to the line are two more red flags. He was old and physically mature, so he had built in advantages that wouldn't translate to the NBA. A team that needs a defensive point guard could use him but can the Spurs pick him when he might not even be better than Tre Jones? Jones put up similar states when he was two years younger. Obviously, Mitchell has more of an NBA body but Jones has a legitimate chance of being better than him down the line. Even if you take Jones out of the equation, Mitchell looks like a backup guard with attributes that aren't the most useful in the modern NBA and don't fit what the Spurs have in place.

[Degoat]

Josh Giddey is growing on me tbh it’s hard to gauge how well an international player will adjust to the NBA but his skill set is interesting

[The Truth #6]

That pass at 11:32 is legit.

He's sort of like a homeless man's Lamelo Ball.

[mo7888]

-I've been watching dem Baylor boys. For Spurs purposes, I like Butler better than Mitchell. Stroke looks really good. Low release but it's so fast that I don't think it'll matter. Strong instincts on both ends with a superior basketball IQ. He's an inch taller and a year younger than Mitchell. Butler could easily slide into a bench role as the new age version of Mills/Forbes. If his shooting is as good as advertised, the rest of the game should make him a strong bench player for years. The issue with Butler is his ceiling isn't that enticing. I'd feel better drafting him at around 20 than in the lottery. But, then again, if you just want a dude who knows how to play basketball without any major flaws and you think Duarte is too old, Butler is one of the better prospects remaining in that scenario. Don't see him being a starter but he should be a useful bench piece. He also gets bonus points because he checks that high-character box the Spurs look for.

-Mitchell ... it'd be difficult for me to co-sign spending a lottery pick on him. Strip away the national championship media hype and he's basically a worse version of Derrick White at Colorado. Impressive defender but I think his shooting could have been a fluke (low free throw percentage, low shooting percentages before this season). Being a bad rebounder and bad at getting to the line are two more red flags. He was old and physically mature, so he had built in advantages that wouldn't translate to the NBA. A team that needs a defensive point guard could use him but can the Spurs pick him when he might not even be better than Tre Jones? Jones put up similar states when he was two years younger. Obviously, Mitchell has more of an NBA body but Jones has a legitimate chance of being better than him down the line. Even if you take Jones out of the equation, Mitchell looks like a backup guard with attributes that aren't the most useful in the modern NBA and don't fit what the Spurs have in place.

I agree with almost all of that on Butler. I've got him higher than Mitchell as well. I see a little George Hill in his game (not that level though). I'd rather go with a higher upside pick but if we fall back a bit he's not a bad option.

[spurs1990]

FA to be McDermott for the Pacers had 31 pts tonight including 6 3pters. He'll only be 30 next season and makes less than $8m on his final year. He seems like a good Spurs system player and at 6'7 could alievate some of the missing scoring once DeRozan leaves.

[BackHome]

After this loss against Celtics and with White out and Murray probably out next game against Philly I am thinking we fall 9 to 11 so I will have to adjust my old picks me thinks

[tbdog]

FA to be McDermott for the Pacers had 31 pts tonight including 6 3pters. He'll only be 30 next season and makes less than $8m on his final year. He seems like a good Spurs system player and at 6'7 could alievate some of the missing scoring once DeRozan leaves.

McDermottis a win now move due to age and area of need. I like him. He would suit playing with DDR and no where near a replacement.

[R. DeMurre]

IF the Spurs draft Giddey, it creates an awkward situation with Dejounte Murray. DM is still growing, but I see a ceiling for him as the person in control of the ball, and he isn’t the star we need. Like DDR, DM needs the ball in his hands. Honestly, I see similar ceilings. We’ve seen the challenges with DM dominating the ball, but it hasn’t been discussed much. It’s felt quietly in White’s absence. So, if we would draft Giddey, should they trade DM at the same time? They wouldn’t of course. But this draft needs to be done with some semblance of a vision for the team. I have doubts the FO is ready to make big decisions. Maybe it’s too early of course, but this season has been a headache of roster/playing time decisions. Not looking forward to more years of this lack of direction. Maybe it truly is focusing on defense. I like that. But I have doubts about DM’s ability to adapt to team’s needs in the same way I do with DDR, basically.

Just throwing out ideas.

I like what I've seen from Giddey, but I have to agree-- it might make an awkward fit. I think all three of White, Murray, and Giddey are better with the ball in their hands, and none of them are great three point shooters. I like that White never hesitates on open threes any more (unlike too many other Spurs), but none of these three are top rank shooters from three, so putting them in a position where they're off ball and camping at the three point line could be counter-productive. But I guess if he's seen as a replacement for Lonnie or Mills it could work.

[The Truth #6]

I like what I've seen from Giddey, but I have to agree-- it might make an awkward fit. I think all three of White, Murray, and Giddey are better with the ball in their hands, and none of them are great three point shooters. I like that White never hesitates on open threes any more (unlike too many other Spurs), but none of these three are top rank shooters from three, so putting them in a position where they're off ball and camping at the three point line could be counter-productive. But I guess if he's seen as a replacement for Lonnie or Mills it could work.

I'm not against Giddey or DM, really. I suppose I'm acknowledging that not everyone can have the ball all the time and having a great distributor seems like a good idea in general. Maybe Giddey would keep the ball moving and everyone is happy and DM transforms more into a 2 guard, that would be my hope, but egos are involved, so I'm dubious. DM works hard and it's impossible not to have egos in order to succeed unless you are Ginobili or Duncan, basically.

Anyway, I suppose my overall question is to see where the FO is taking the team.

[TD 21]

I can see Jared Butler for that sixth man Patty role or a designated shooter Bryn role in that starting lineup. After Moody and Wagner , Butler maybe the next high floor player with some upside. Hard to find that combination of versatile shooting with maybe plus defense. Duarte is another good pick on that mold. Too much question marks on prospects 6 onwards that getting that high floor prospect with creation upside might be the better play.



For Spurs purposes, I like Butler better than Mitchell. Stroke looks really good. Low release but it's so fast that I don't think it'll matter. Strong instincts on both ends with a superior basketball IQ. He's an inch taller and a year younger than Mitchell. Butler could easily slide into a bench role as the new age version of Mills/Forbes. If his shooting is as good as advertised, the rest of the game should make him a strong bench player for years. The issue with Butler is his ceiling isn't that enticing. I'd feel better drafting him at around 20 than in the lottery. But, then again, if you just want a dude who knows how to play basketball without any major flaws and you think Duarte is too old, Butler is one of the better prospects remaining in that scenario. Don't see him being a starter but he should be a useful bench piece. He also gets bonus points because he checks that high-character box the Spurs look for.


Same. Though the consensus is that the Spurs are teeming with young guards, as I've said ad nauseam, it's not really true. Outside of the entrenched Murray and White (who will be 27 when he next plays and is injury prone), Walker IV is probably unlikely to be extended, Johnson and Vassell are wings and at least for now, Jones is a depth piece.

No matter how much they value Mills' intangibles, his recent play could be the start of his decline and either way, that's coming sooner than later. It doesn't make sense to pay probably 3/$36Mish to dissuade him from signing for the MLE with an aspiring contender.

[Harry Callahan]

Same. Though the consensus is that the Spurs are teeming with young guards, as I've said ad nauseam, it's not really true. Outside of the entrenched Murray and White (who will be 27 when he next plays and is injury prone), Walker IV is probably unlikely to be extended, Johnson and Vassell are wings and at least for now, Jones is a depth piece.

No matter how much they value Mills' intangibles, his recent play could be the start of his decline and either way, that's coming sooner than later. It doesn't make sense to pay probably 3/$36Mish to dissuade him from signing for the MLE with an aspiring contender.

I would not mind a Baylor guard who was the Big 12 Player of the year in Butler. I don't think the Spurs are set at guard just yet. They have players that still have not established themselves (Mostly Walker) and Mills and DDR may not come back.
I think a combination of trades, draft picks and FA signings will result in several new rotation players next year. Front court help would be nice but no position (outside of the 5) should be off the table. I would not take a 5 because I don't know of anyone who would be able to impact the game adequately. GSW is still trying to figure out Wiseman, who was very high in the lottery last year.

[Russ]

Another fallen angel to take a look at is Greg Brown. His stock dropped in part because of his immaturity and in part because of the dysfunctional situation at UT.

Still, he has high-end physical tools, size (6'9"), hops, quickness, in short, an elite athlete.

One knock on him as a big time recruit out of HS was his shooting, i.e., he couldn't even hit .50% of free throws. He hit .708% at Texas, a nice improvement.

He also hit a somewhat promising .330% form three despite not being used in anything approaching a set rotation. (He ended up in the great Shaka Smart's ample doghouse.)

He could a bust --the character issues need to be tracked down carefully -- but he has upside and Brown is unlike most of the upside players the Spurs already have and most of the upside players already critiqued in this draft, i.e., he 's bigger.

He has also fallen so far in most mocks that he should be available wherever the Spurs draft.

8NWTfpSQ6nQ

[Robz4000]

Another fallen angel to take a look at is Greg Brown. His stock dropped in part because of his immaturity and in part because of the dysfunctional situation at UT.

Still, he has high-end physical tools, size (6'9"), hops, quickness, in short, an elite athlete.

One knock on him as a big time recruit out of HS was his shooting, i.e., he couldn't even hit .50% of free throws. He hit .708% at Texas, a nice improvement.

He also hit a somewhat promising .330% form three despite not being used in anything approaching a set rotation. (He ended up in the great Shaka Smart's ample doghouse.)

He could a bust --the character issues need to be tracked down carefully -- but he has upside and Brown is unlike most of the upside players the Spurs already have and most of the upside players already critiqued in this draft, i.e., he 's bigger.

He has also fallen so far in most mocks that he should be available wherever the Spurs draft.

8NWTfpSQ6nQ

Dude is a mental midget and not a winner tbh. He's destined for overseas.

[exstatic]

Another fallen angel to take a look at is Greg Brown. His stock dropped in part because of his immaturity and in part because of the dysfunctional situation at UT.

Still, he has high-end physical tools, size (6'9"), hops, quickness, in short, an elite athlete.

One knock on him as a big time recruit out of HS was his shooting, i.e., he couldn't even hit .50% of free throws. He hit .708% at Texas, a nice improvement.

He also hit a somewhat promising .330% form three despite not being used in anything approaching a set rotation. (He ended up in the great Shaka Smart's ample doghouse.)

He could a bust --the character issues need to be tracked down carefully -- but he has upside and Brown is unlike most of the upside players the Spurs already have and most of the upside players already critiqued in this draft, i.e., he 's bigger.

He has also fallen so far in most mocks that he should be available wherever the Spurs draft.

8NWTfpSQ6nQ

Not even the UT prospect I like. Sometimes, a distressed asset is just distressed, and not a bargain.

[Russ]

Not even the UT prospect I like. Sometimes, a distressed asset is just distressed, and not a bargain.

I like Kai Jones better, too, but he'll be gone, you can just about book it.

[timvp]

Greg Brown is a great athlete and supposedly a really good kid ... but, man, he's just clueless. He's one of the worst passers I've ever seen. Brown would need to play PF in the NBA due to his size so he'll have to know how to pass at least a little bit. But he just doesn't know how. His 6-to-1 turnover-to-assist ratio begins to paint the picture of how little feel he has on offense.

I'm a fan of drafting high-ceiling athletes but Brown is too far away from being anything useful. And even if he matures, his size limits his upside. My guess is he'll measure 6-foot-8.5 with a 6-foot-10 wingspan. Meh size and literally no transferable skills? I wouldn't like Brown in the lottery. His athleticism can only take him so far -- especially these days when Stromile Swift-esque power forwards are worth next to nothing on the open market. You need your PF to be skilled basketball players these days ... and that will only become more and more vital in forthcoming years, IMO. Going with an athlete project at PF is no longer a smart play in the draft.

[GAustex]

Brown is an eye popping jumper. Fast runner. As a young player a real knucklehead.
An enigma for a NBA team as a draft choice.

[B1gduff]

We lack an Athletic big wing.Some one that is atleast 6'8 and has the ability to be a solid maybe even a lockdown defenders against guys likes Tatum, Lebron, George. We lack size at this position and this should be our main goal.

[Russ]

Greg Brown is a great athlete and supposedly a really good kid ... but, man, he's just clueless. He's one of the worst passers I've ever seen. Brown would need to play PF in the NBA due to his size so he'll have to know how to pass at least a little bit. But he just doesn't know how. His 6-to-1 turnover-to-assist ratio begins to paint the picture of how little feel he has on offense.

I'm a fan of drafting high-ceiling athletes but Brown is too far away from being anything useful. And even if he matures, his size limits his upside. My guess is he'll measure 6-foot-8.5 with a 6-foot-10 wingspan. Meh size and literally no transferable skills? I wouldn't like Brown in the lottery. His athleticism can only take him so far -- especially these days when Stromile Swift-esque power forwards are worth next to nothing on the open market. You need your PF to be skilled basketball players these days ... and that will only become more and more vital in forthcoming years, IMO. Going with an athlete project at PF is no longer a smart play in the draft.

Being lured into the Greg Brown fan-club was the farthest thing from my original intent, but what the hey . . .

The kid can clearly play D and he's 6'8" or maybe even 6'9".

If (a big "if" I admit) he can become a three-point shooter he might be a 6'9" 3 & D guy, valuable in and of itself -- especially the way this D-challenged Spurs roster is currently constructed.

And if he can be a 3 & D guy it begs the question -- how good a "passer" was Bruce Bowen, anyway? :)

[Dejounte]

13 would be a good spot to nab a decent player. After 15 or 16, I'm afraid what's left are short combo guards (with not enough talent to differentiate from our current guards) and low IQ bigs.

Any of Moses, Franz, Giddey, Bouk please!

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/8koyzNC010g

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/KnicksDraft/status/1389310452094566404?s=19

Whole thread of clips if you click the link

[The Truth #6]

Guys with skills like Vrenz will likely be available, like most drafts. Garuba is ranked as the #1 PF on a few sites, and even linked to the Spurs, but then you read his profile and it paints a vague picture of why he’s actually good. High ceiling et cetera. You see Vrenz and it feels like high floor and high ceiling. Interesting.

[Dejounte]

https://twitter.com/abovethebreak3/status/1389268937049878531?s=19

[duncan2150]

https://twitter.com/abovethebreak3/status/1389268937049878531?s=19

You start to really like this kid ? he was the first foreign prospect i saw with sengun. I like the fact that he's young, playing well in a good league, looks complete : can do a lot of things.

Intriguing prospect, i was less on him because he's low on some mocks but i still like him.

[exstatic]

Guys with skills like Vrenz will likely be available, like most drafts. Garuba is ranked as the #1 PF on a few sites, and even linked to the Spurs, but then you read his profile and it paints a vague picture of why he’s actually good. High ceiling et cetera. You see Vrenz and it feels like high floor and high ceiling. Interesting.


Anyone who’s interested in Garuba should really read the story of Mike Mamula and the Philadelphia Eagles. He blew away every workout at the combine, and they used a very high pick on him. It turned out that he was just a workout wonder, and didn’t play football all that well.

[Dejounte]

You start to really like this kid ? he was the first foreign prospect i saw with sengun. I like the fact that he's young, playing well in a good league, looks complete : can do a lot of things.

Intriguing prospect, i was less on him because he's low on some mocks but i still like him.

He's alright. He's a Keldon clone to me. I view it as a realistic fit for the Spurs:

1) He won't jump ahead of Luka in the rotation - so the whole hierarchy thing can continue
2) Seems to fit the modern PF prototype
3) Big bro, little bro dynamic with him and Luka = Improved chemistry

[duncan2150]

He's alright. He's a Keldon clone to me. I view it as a realistic fit for the Spurs:

1) He won't jump ahead of Luka in the rotation - so the whole hierarchy thing can continue
2) Seems to fit the modern PF prototype
3) Big bro, little bro dynamic with him and Luka = Improved chemistry


i agree, not a bad fit.

[pad300]

Anyone who’s interested in Garuba should really read the story of Mike Mamula and the Philadelphia Eagles. He blew away every workout at the combine, and they used a very high pick on him. It turned out that he was just a workout wonder, and didn’t play football all that well.

Just how is Mamula's story relevant here? Garuba is playing significant minutes for Real Madrid, 16 MPG in Euroleague (38 Games played), and 19 MPG in ACB (33 games played) as a 19 year old...

[ace3g]

It's official

Michigan sophomore wing Franz Wagner (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/franz-wagner-1.html?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-) has decided to enter the 2021 NBA draft, forgoing his remaining college eligibility. The program issued a press release (https://mgoblue.com/news/2021/5/4/mens-basketball-wagner-set-for-next-stage-leaves-u-m-for-early-entry-into-nba-draft.aspx) announcing the decision, and Wagner also wrote a piece on The Players’ Tribune (https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/franz-wagner-michigan-basketball-ncaa-nba) about it.

“I’ll be honest … I’m definitely feeling a lot of emotions about it,” Wagner wrote of his decision to go pro. “I’m hopeful, more than anything — as playing in the NBA has been a big dream of mine. It’s something I’ve been working extremely hard for. And after talking with my coaches and my family, I know it’s something I’m ready for. From a basketball perspective, this is the move for me to make right now. Plus, I mean, if Moe (older brother Moritz Wagner (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wagnemo01.html?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-)) can play in the league — obviously they’ll take anyone.”

[R. DeMurre]

It's official

Michigan sophomore wing Franz Wagner (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/franz-wagner-1.html?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-) has decided to enter the 2021 NBA draft, forgoing his remaining college eligibility. The program issued a press release (https://mgoblue.com/news/2021/5/4/mens-basketball-wagner-set-for-next-stage-leaves-u-m-for-early-entry-into-nba-draft.aspx) announcing the decision, and Wagner also wrote a piece on The Players’ Tribune (https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/franz-wagner-michigan-basketball-ncaa-nba) about it.

“I’ll be honest … I’m definitely feeling a lot of emotions about it,” Wagner wrote of his decision to go pro. “I’m hopeful, more than anything — as playing in the NBA has been a big dream of mine. It’s something I’ve been working extremely hard for. And after talking with my coaches and my family, I know it’s something I’m ready for. From a basketball perspective, this is the move for me to make right now. Plus, I mean, if Moe (older brother Moritz Wagner (https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wagnemo01.html?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-)) can play in the league — obviously they’ll take anyone.”

Wow, talk about taking the perfect opportunity to level a worldwide brother joke! Well done. Hard to imagine Moritz will ever be able to top that.

[exstatic]

Just how is Mamula's story relevant here? Garuba is playing significant minutes for Real Madrid, 16 MPG in Euroleague (38 Games played), and 19 MPG in ACB (33 games played) as a 19 year old...

He’s a physical specimen who doesn’t have much game. You see it every year, guys who could lean into their athleticism at lower levels go splat against the windshield when confronted by guys with game AND athleticism.

If you’re looking for a bench rim runner/rim defender who doesn’t have a ton of upside,but understands US basketball, just pick the kid from KY, Isaiah Jackson. Neither one of them will ever be a star,but Jackson will be in the league in 5 years.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

He’s a physical specimen who doesn’t have much game. You see it every year, guys who could lean into their athleticism at lower levels go splat against the windshield when confronted by guys with game AND athleticism.

If you’re looking for a bench rim runner/rim defender who doesn’t have a ton of upside,but understands US basketball, just pick the kid from KY, Isaiah Jackson. Neither one of them will ever be a star,but Jackson will be in the league in 5 years.

The thing is, Garuba has the upside to be more than a rim runner. Sure, if he ends up as an undersized center, like a Jordan Bell, then his value would be low. However, he's shown he can play with grown men in probably the 2nd and third best basketball leagues in the world. If he develops enough offensively to hang as a 4, then his defense alone will be worth it, he can legit guard anyone 1-5. Now, I can understand if people don't buy his shot would ever develop, I can't say I understand enough to be able to judge whether a player can or cannot improve his shot.

He has shown improvements this season, though, he's practically shooting and hitting 3s at exactly Evan Mobley's rate. It's not great obviously, but this is why we're keyboard GMs and real scouts' jobs are difficult.

[BackHome]

It’s a team fit for him with his skill sets I think Warriors would be a great fit cause he would be surrounded with shooters. With the Spurs we don’t have that and our Center has zero outside shooting so very bad fit for us

[Russ]

It's official

Michigan sophomore wing Franz Wagner (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/franz-wagner-1.html?utm_campaign=Linker&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=linker-) has decided to enter the 2021 NBA draft, forgoing his remaining college eligibility.

It's official? Really official?

Be still my heart.

[slick'81]

Spurs looking at that mid first round pick? Or can they stay around 12 or 13?

[exstatic]

The thing is, Garuba has the upside to be more than a rim runner. Sure, if he ends up as an undersized center, like a Jordan Bell, then his value would be low. However, he's shown he can play with grown men in probably the 2nd and third best basketball leagues in the world. If he develops enough offensively to hang as a 4, then his defense alone will be worth it, he can legit guard anyone 1-5. Now, I can understand if people don't buy his shot would ever develop, I can't say I understand enough to be able to judge whether a player can or cannot improve his shot.

He has shown improvements this season, though, he's practically shooting and hitting 3s at exactly Evan Mobley's rate. It's not great obviously, but this is why we're keyboard GMs and real scouts' jobs are difficult.

A 4 in today’s league needs to be able to dribble/pass/shoot. He doesn’t really have those skills, and is not big enough to play other than spot minutes at center. Mobley is a different animal altogether. He’s a solid 4” taller, and is clearly a center. He doesn’t need the perimeter skill set that a 4 does.

[Dejounte]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyDeSiujniI

[exstatic]

Spurs looking at that mid first round pick? Or can they stay around 12 or 13?

I’d put chances of being #13 at about 85%.

[mo7888]

Spurs looking at that mid first round pick? Or can they stay around 12 or 13?

Decent shot at 11... to get any higher Nola would have to win half there remaining games and its not likely... 11 to 13 is probably our range now

[Russ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyDeSiujniI

Damn, I haven't seen a two-handed set shot since the days of the Washington Generals.

(Okay, you're right, I need to dial it back.)

[Dejounte]

"And on a personal level, I’m really proud of how much I’ve grown over these last two years. Off the court, I feel like I’ve become an adult — I’ve learned to take care of myself, you know what I mean?? (Also, I can mostly grow a beard now. Amazing perseverance.) And on the court, I think I’m just a more well-rounded player than I was when I first got to Michigan. I know the current NBA is all about versatility, guys who can show guard-like skills while having forward-like size. And I definitely think I’m developing that type of game.

At the same time, though, I’ll always be my own worst critic — and I know I’ve got lots of things I have to work on and improve if I’m going to achieve my goals. I know I have to keep pushing myself to my limits. But those types of challenges … I live for them. I never want to feel satisfied with where I’m at."

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/franz-wagner-michigan-basketball-ncaa-nba

[The Truth #6]

Random thoughts:

On one hand, I’m ok continuing to draft European forwards with guard skills because American players seem to lack fundamental skills too often, and this type of size and skills in a player is the future of the NBA. But I have hopes for Luka though. I think he has turned a corner but hasn’t been given dick of an opportunity yet.

More to the point, can Wagner play the 4? I’m still trying to figure that out.

One thing I can’t get around with Wagner is his funky, awkward athletic style, if that’s the right word. He seems to have decent to good functional athleticism, but he seems the opposite of fluid, like everything is labored and he already a double hip replacement. Sort of joking, but I would definitely want to the Spurs to give him a thorough physical.

[mo7888]

Wagner is still my favorite prospect outside of the top 5.

[The Truth #6]

Wagner is still my favorite prospect outside of the top 5.

Cool. What are you seeing and what do you like about him? I recognize his various skills, defense, and great team oriented personality. Frankly, I’m surprised he is so rated so high, I guess.

[BackHome]

With the schedule we have and all the OT we played recently we’re going to find it hard to win more then 2 games - I am pretty sure will end up with 11th or 12th pick

I just noticed Bleacher report has both Sengun and Giddey in the top 10. Lol

[Dejounte]

Cool. What are you seeing and what do you like about him? I recognize his various skills, defense, and great team oriented personality. Frankly, I’m surprised he is so rated so high, I guess.

This article is one of the best I've read that summarizes why:

http://jakeinthepaint.com/size-skill-and-smarts-franz-wager-has-the-juice/

[Dejounte]

Cool. What are you seeing and what do you like about him? I recognize his various skills, defense, and great team oriented personality. Frankly, I’m surprised he is so rated so high, I guess.

Here's another fantastic (probably better) article about him:

https://zonahoops.com/2021/02/07/franz-wagner-nba-scouting-report/

[mo7888]

Cool. What are you seeing and what do you like about him? I recognize his various skills, defense, and great team oriented personality. Frankly, I’m surprised he is so rated so high, I guess.

I see a guy with an all around game who has the potential to be a first class distributor. A guy who will make every one around him better. He's big enough to play the 4 even though he's a natural 3. He's athletic enough to guard 3's. His shot was my only concern but it's not broken.. if Chip can get him consistently averaging 38% from 3 he has the upside to be the best player in the draft imo. Even if he doesn't he'll be valuable because of his other talents... that's what I see...

[The Truth #6]

Nice articles. I’m coming around to him. Feels almost like a Slomo in that he is well rounded but, overall, better. That isn't a dig. We could have used a Slomo this year more than Rudy Gay. And I could see Wagner replacing Gay’s role over time. I really want to get players who can return us to a semblance of the beautiful game and Wagner has that.

Put another way, he plays defense and has other important skills we need from the wing.

[R. DeMurre]

New Orleans beat Golden State tonight, so they're 2 games behind the Spurs, who have 8 remaining games. The Pelicans have 6 games remaining.

[The Truth #6]

New Orleans beat Golden State tonight, so they're 2 games behind the Spurs, who have 8 remaining games. The Pelicans have 6 games remaining.

If you believe that the NBA would prefer for Zion to be in the playoffs, that’s definitely an argument for the refs favoring Zion and NO. I don’t like conspiracy theories, but the NBA, like every other billion dollar business, likes to prioritize profits over ethics. Just rambling, but I can see NO moving ahead of us. It’s definitely possible. But NO always finds ways to lose no matter how much the league props them up.

[Degoat]

I haven’t looked to deep into all the prospects but what I’ve seen there’s a lot of guys that I like in this draft! I’m confident no matter what pick the spurs end up at they will find something special