Spurs Select F Jeremy Sochan with the 9th Pick in the 2022 NBA Draft

[Knoxxx]

Sochan was the best player on the court in the first quarter, then Pop subbed him out for 12 minutes. The inconsistency of these young players is maddening. I still like his British accent and short shorts, stop picking on the kid. It's not his fault the Spurs drafted him too high.

(he does trip over his own feet and self a lot tho, but let's credit that to "hustle")

[scott]

Look out for Philly as a contender to land Naz.

I like Mo’s Jarace Walker idea.

[TheGreatYacht]

This gap toothed pussy has no business starting in the G League, much less the Association.

[RC_Drunkford]

Trae Young, Naz Reid and Herb Jones are at the top of my trade targets list tbh. These 3 guys would fix so many issues with this team.

[scott]

Trae Young, Naz Reid and Herb Jones are at the top of my trade targets list tbh. These 3 guys would fix so many issues with this team.

:pop: I hear you. How about Cedi Osman on a 3/48 instead?

[timtonymanu]

Trae Young, Naz Reid and Herb Jones are at the top of my trade targets list tbh. These 3 guys would fix so many issues with this team.

Yep spurs need to act opposite than they did in the Duncan era. They can’t just build through the draft. With Brian Wrong’s track record, I don’t trust them to draft talent like I did in the past. They already have a more marketable star than Timmy that other stars would want to team up with. They can get free agents. Spurs material mentality can go out the door.

[RC_Drunkford]

these 3 players are all young and "on the timeline" so to speak, so they would be long term pieces. The FO better be doing something.

[Chomag]

Nah, other then drafting some players and maybe picking up another scrub or 2 that other teams are not really looking at through free agency , this dumb FO is standing pat... unfortunately.

Until proven otherwise, or actual changes of coach and management happen this tiered method will just continue.

[Knoxxx]

Seems like some semblance of an offensive game will be the key to whether Jeremy can stick in the league. On the defensive side, what we have seen the last couple of games (J Jackson Jr, Durant) is that the last thing you want to do is put him on a taller player than him. His defense on smaller players is quite good, though.

[rascal]

Nah, other then drafting some players and maybe picking up another scrub or 2 that other teams are not really looking at through free agency , this dumb FO is standing pat... unfortunately.

Until proven otherwise, or actual changes of coach and management happen this tiered method will just continue.

Most likely so they can tank for a deeper draft class in 2025. Expect a 20 win season next season.

[Ditty]

That's my power forward :cry

:lmao TheGreatCock

[Knoxxx]

This gap toothed pussy has no business starting in the G League, much less the Association.

That aged well!

[BatManu20]

Sochan haters in shambles :lol

1772448409187762433

[Tyronn Lue]

Sochan haters in shambles :lol

1772448409187762433
Maybe protected his role a bit by keeping the Spurs in worse lottery position.

[rascal]

He was due for a good game maybe even two good games. We've seen this before.

[SpursBills]

He's an inconsistent 20 year old role player right now who had a great game against a shit front line. Hopefully as he gets older he continues to get more consistent and improve, next year will be very telling as players often make a year 3 jump after stagnating in year 2. I have high hopes for him

[buttsR4rebounding]

Sochan is fine. Lot of the recent young guys looked a lot better in Year 3 vs Year 2 and I'm expecting the same from Jeremy next season tbh.

Plus he will spend this off season actually working on skills that he needs to be successful instead of taking Pop’s PointGuard for Dummies class.

[Knoxxx]

He’s a microcosm for the whole team, inconsistent as all hell! The upside is very tantalizing though, since he defends and hustles like a madman.

[rascal]

Sochan haters in shambles :lol

1772448409187762433

Sochan lovers come out of hiding for his occasional big game.

[Knoxxx]

Let’s get some decent takes. The dude has some upside. You don’t have to love or hate him at present to just be a fan and happy to cheer for him and the team.

[Ditty]

He is younger than most rookies also including the Thompson brothers, Chet and Brandon Miller :elephant

[Atl Spur]

Let’s get some decent takes. The dude has some upside. You don’t have to love or hate him at present to just be a fan and happy to cheer for him and the team.

Well said but it won’t be received well by some of these clowns! The kid just needs time but that’s an excuse to some so there’s that:)

[itzsoweezee]

Let’s get some decent takes. The dude has some upside. You don’t have to love or hate him at present to just be a fan and happy to cheer for him and the team.

Shooting is critical for him. If he wants to be more than a role player off the bench, he’s gotta be able to shoot. That shot is so ugly, I’m very skeptical of him as the starting 4 going forward.

[Atl Spur]

I don’t care how the shot looks, he just needs to be more consistent.

[Knoxxx]

Shooting is critical for him. If he wants to be more than a role player off the bench, he’s gotta be able to shoot. That shot is so ugly, I’m very skeptical of him as the starting 4 going forward.

Yes and I can get reactionary too “let’s dump the whole team”. If I was to guess Wemby likes his teammates and doesn’t think they all just need dumped.

While his shooting form is much maligned, Jeremy showed some especially nice midrange touch tonight.

[Atl Spur]

He seems to care and likes to compete. Thats huge, give the kid some time.

[DAF86]

Shooting is critical for him. If he wants to be more than a role player off the bench, he’s gotta be able to shoot. That shot is so ugly, I’m very skeptical of him as the starting 4 going forward.

Actually, he's gotta be able to shoot to be an efficient role player. If he was a go to guy with the ball on his hands or the primary screen setter that can play freely through the middle while the other 4 players stretch the floor for him, he would be ok.

As things stand, he needs to not be a shooting liability to fit next to our franchise player. I really hope he can develop that part of his game somehow because I like pretty much every other aspect of his game.

[get_mills_out]

I like Sochan as a player. Nights like tonight showcase the best case scenario for him. The fit is just pretty unfortunate next to Wemby tbh. When the ball is zipping around Sochan can cut, pick his spots, and use his handle to break down the defense.

when the ball stops on one side of the court because you have the best prospect ever, teams just abandon Sochan and build a wall in the lane.

He’s got a ton of potential as a 2 way player in the right situation, but I’m not sure you can play next to Victor if you aren’t a consistent 3pt shooter long term. And I don’t think that’s in the cards for Sochan.

[freetiago]

If he can increase his trade value that’s the best case scenario. Sochan suckers can never answer the question, “what is he good at”

[Pauleta14]

The fanboys are out!!! :lol

Same process than with Malaki, one good game and amnesia strikes them again

[John B]

lol… oh yeah I always believed in his potential but Poop messed up his confidence geez

[exstatic]

One thing I noticed in warmups last night was that his shot is much better when he takes his left hand off of the ball early. The ones where he keeps the left hand on until the release are likely to go anywhere.

[D-Robinson 50 fan]

Love the idea of getting Naz Reid and Herb Jones via free agency or trade like many have stated in here. Hopefully we can get one or both of those guys this offseason. They would fit perfectly

[LeBowen]

I hate being that guy, but this game just showed why Sochan struggles when he's sharing the floor with Wemby.

His points came from hustle plays, easy baskets while wide open in the paint, a couple of layups over guards and a few jumpshots when he was dared to shoot.
His hustle and rebounding was great, he also took advantage of Phoenix's disgusting transition defense by pushing the ball after rebounds, but that's about it.
Nothing spectacular we already haven't seen.
It sounds like I'm hating, but a lot of those wild, random layups went in last night and they won't go in most of the time.
He scored 26 on 19 shots, nothing crazy in today's league.

Two of the main issues still persist if he's to play extended minutes with Wemby. He's not a good passer and he can't shoot.
He obviously has a better mentality than most of our roster because he's always competing hard and trying to improve on his obvious flaws, but if those flaws persist, he'll never be a starter on a good team.
I still think he's got a lot of room for improvement, but it feels like he'd be best suited for Keldon's 6th man role next season.

We need players who can pass the ball well and are legit threats behind the arc.
Sochan loses most of his value when he's not one of the first options, which sounds ridiculous considering his scoring flaws.
If only Devin had his mentality, he'd be a way better player.

[itzsoweezee]

Actually, he's gotta be able to shoot to be an efficient role player. If he was a go to guy with the ball on his hands or the primary screen setter that can play freely through the middle while the other 4 players stretch the floor for him, he would be ok.

As things stand, he needs to not be a shooting liability to fit next to our franchise player. I really hope he can develop that part of his game somehow because I like pretty much every other aspect of his game.

Of course. I was never considering Sochan as someone who the lineup should be shaped around.

[Knoxxx]

Jeremy Sochan Double-double vs Phoenix Suns | 3.25.2024 (youtube.com) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1l90F5qfq0)

[Atl Spur]

I hate being that guy, but this game just showed why Sochan struggles when he's sharing the floor with Wemby.

His points came from hustle plays, easy baskets while wide open in the paint, a couple of layups over guards and a few jumpshots when he was dared to shoot.
His hustle and rebounding was great, he also took advantage of Phoenix's disgusting transition defense by pushing the ball after rebounds, but that's about it.
Nothing spectacular we already haven't seen.
It sounds like I'm hating, but a lot of those wild, random layups went in last night and they won't go in most of the time.
He scored 26 on 19 shots, nothing crazy in today's league.

Two of the main issues still persist if he's to play extended minutes with Wemby. He's not a good passer and he can't shoot.
He obviously has a better mentality than most of our roster because he's always competing hard and trying to improve on his obvious flaws, but if those flaws persist, he'll never be a starter on a good team.
I still think he's got a lot of room for improvement, but it feels like he'd be best suited for Keldon's 6th man role next season.

We need players who can pass the ball well and are legit threats behind the arc.
Sochan loses most of his value when he's not one of the first options, which sounds ridiculous considering his scoring flaws.
If only Devin had his mentality, he'd be a way better player.
In your assessment clearly explain why Pop made him run point guard in a a throw away season ( passing / playmaking ) development.

[Chinook]

I think Pop tried to force Sochan to have the ball to keep him engaged with the offense. It's easy for a guy like him to fade into the background when Jones has the ball and Devin and Victor are the clear top options. Of course, Sochan could've had those opportunities off the bench, but Pop didn't seem to want to even try going there.

[Atl Spur]

You can do a lot worse than Jeremy at number 9 history suggests.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/9th-nba-overall-draft-picks

[spurraider21]

I think Pop tried to force Sochan to have the ball to keep him engaged with the offense. It's easy for a guy like him to fade into the background when Jones has the ball and Devin and Victor are the clear top options. Of course, Sochan could've had those opportunities off the bench, but Pop didn't seem to want to even try going there.
damn if only they spent a significant portion of the season with sochan handling the ball a lot, maybe even running point. that way we could have seen how the offense looked over an extended period of time

[Atl Spur]

The fanboys are out!!! :lol

Same process than with Malaki, one good game and amnesia strikes them again

The kid will be fine, perhaps you personally should do some review of historical data….
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/9th-nba-overall-draft-picks

[Chinook]

damn if only they spent a significant portion of the season with sochan handling the ball a lot, maybe even running point. that way we could have seen how the offense looked over an extended period of time

I was answering a question for why Pop did that in the first place, not advocating for them to do it again

[spurraider21]

I was answering a question for why Pop did that in the first place, not advocating for them to do it again
yeah, guilty. i didnt realize you were commenting on the post above yours as it wasnt quoted. thought you were referring to yesterday's game specifically

snark retracted

[LeBowen]

In your assessment clearly explain why Pop made him run point guard in a a throw away season ( passing / playmaking ) development.

The only reasonable explanation would be that Pop didn't want a player who's got no jumpshot playing off the ball.
His handles were never going to be good enough to actually play point, but I guess Pop thought Jeremy could develop Draymond-like passing.
Which he obviously couldn't. At least not yet.

[JeffDuncan]

In your assessment clearly explain why Pop made him run point guard in a a throw away season ( passing / playmaking ) development.


The only reasonable explanation would be that Pop didn't want a player who's got no jumpshot playing off the ball.
His handles were never going to be good enough to actually play point, but I guess Pop thought Jeremy could develop Draymond-like passing.
Which he obviously couldn't. At least not yet.


The only reasonable explanation is defense.

Why is it that people who talk about the “Sochan at PG experiment” always instantly forget that the basketball court has two ends?

The Spurs were coming off a season where the defense was historically bad. If you want to improve the defense, which player do you want on the court, Sochan or Tre? There’s your answer.

It was never about trying to turn Sochan into Tyrese Haliburton. It was about Sochan instead of Tre on defense.

1) Run a share-the-ball style on offense, which reduces the importance of the point guard.

2) Have Sochan instead of Tre on defense.

I’m sure it looked good on paper. Heck, it does look good on paper.

The Spurs still do things to reduce the role of the point guard. Look at the possessions where Tre goes to the corner, and somebody else initiates the action. You’ll find many examples.

“Sochan at PG” is no mystery.

DEE-FENSE….. DEE-FENSE

[LeBowen]

DEE-FENSE….. DEE-FENSE

You can't claim it's because of defense when Pop started Keldon and Zach early in the season.

I guess Zach's demise was kind of a surprise, but everyone knew about Keldon's traffic cone tendencies.


If you want to improve the defense, which player do you want on the court, Sochan or Tre? There’s your answer.

There's no right answer to this question.
Tre is an intelligent defender and gives his best every possession, but gets torched by athletically superior guards.

Jeremy has the size, but as a wing is obviously too slow to be point of attack defender against elite guards.
And on top of that, he often had to play the impossible role of defending PNR with Collins. Not even nephew would've done much better.

Even to this day, Pop plays those ridiculous with two of Branham-Keldon-Osman together with Collins, sometimes even all three. They'd struggle to defend in G-league.

[scott]

I hope Sochan has a few more games like this to close out the season and some other team gets enamored with his flashes and we can move him. Not because I think it's time to give up on Sochan, because it's not, but because I just don't think he fits next to Wemby and the direction the team needs to go. Ironically, I feel the same about Devin.

In a vacuum, these seem like good pieces to build around... but I'm afraid the more potential they show the more we'll just try to shove those square pieces into a round hole.

[Pauleta14]

The kid will be fine, perhaps you personally should do some review of historical data….
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/9th-nba-overall-draft-picks

So you thought those data would make you look smart?

How are they relevant? How is his draft position related to his game? Why should I care about previous 9th in the draft?

you seem to think anyone criticising Sochan is a hater, which I get it is convenient, but reality most like the kid, it’s never been the point.

the point is he shouldn’t be starting as long as his defensive game doesn’t or rarely compensates his offensive limitations and overall low BBIQ

It’s just absurd to read all those overreactions after a good game vs a team who knew Wemby wouldn’t play. Opposition and context matters.

this game was at best good for his moral but insignificant regarding big picture development. He should be on the bench working his way to starting.

it’s not hating it’s just common sense unless you’re fine with Wemby being double teamed bc of him

[Pauleta14]

I hope Sochan has a few more games like this to close out the season and some other team gets enamored with his flashes and we can move him. Not because I think it's time to give up on Sochan, because it's not, but because I just don't think he fits next to Wemby and the direction the team needs to go. Ironically, I feel the same about Devin.

In a vacuum, these seem like good pieces to build around... but I'm afraid the more potential they show the more we'll just try to shove those square pieces into a round hole.


I totally agree

It’s a matter of compatibility and chemistry. We’ve litteraly seen none of those in +60games

I get the emotional attachment to a kid drafted and fun personality etc but ultimately it’s a business.

[SpursBills]

I hope Sochan has a few more games like this to close out the season and some other team gets enamored with his flashes and we can move him. Not because I think it's time to give up on Sochan, because it's not, but because I just don't think he fits next to Wemby and the direction the team needs to go. Ironically, I feel the same about Devin.

In a vacuum, these seem like good pieces to build around... but I'm afraid the more potential they show the more we'll just try to shove those square pieces into a round hole.

Interesting - can you expand on this? I don't agree here, but wanted to hear your thoughts.

I think I can see your argument more with Vassell - he represents one of the less valuable archetypes in basketball very prone to being overrated as a primarily offensive shooting guard with minimal creation and minimal defensive versatility. The upper end of his archetype is Devin Booker and he's drawing dead to ever becoming as good as him. Other guys of his archetype like Jalen Green, Demar DeRozan, and Zach Lavine have not affected winning nearly as much as their contracts dictate. He's smaller than a Khris Middleton so he inherently has less defensive versatility. His primary value as a tough shot maker is limited by his size and non-elite athleticism. In that sense, I agree somewhat although I would argue that he has shown enough improvement as a playmaker this year to continue to invest in him. Still, if you could get all of his skills in a guy who's actually wing-sized, that'd certainly be more ideal.

Sochan I think I'd disagree with a little more. To me at least, a fully realized and developed Sochan (like 7-8 years from now) is basically a guy who can guard 2-4 full time and is switchable 1-5 in spurts defensively. He's potentially a powerful antidote to the rising new breed of big creators who the Spurs will inevitably encounter in the playoffs. We've seen his success already against guys like Scottie Barnes and Luka, but this also applies in the future to guys like Anthony Edwards, Cade Cunningham, SGA/Jalen Williams, Tatum, Cooper Flagg (?) etc. I'd say his handle and passing are already at least above average for his size and age, and as long as you believe in his ability to fix his jump shot to league average you have a guy who offensively can attack a rotating defense and act as a vital cog in a dribble-pass-shoot offense.

While you can certainly find adequate big wing defenders, the potential to combine that with a versatile offensive piece is more rare and that's what I'm hoping to see from Sochan. Can he protect the rim and handle true bigs down low? No but that probably comes down to roster construction and the need to pair him up with another big wing. I get that if you don't believe in his ability to ever develop into a league average shooter that that significantly limits his fit with the roster, but I disagree that a fully actualized Sochan isn't a good fit with Wemby. I guess I envision a T-Wolves style defense with a GOAT rim protector flanked by 2 elite perimeter defenders in the future. Pair a guy like Sochan with someone like Castle or Devin Carter in this year's draft, let it percolate for a few years, and I think you have a legit chance to build a top 1 defense.

[Mal]

I hope Sochan has a few more games like this to close out the season and some other team gets enamored with his flashes and we can move him. Not because I think it's time to give up on Sochan, because it's not, but because I just don't think he fits next to Wemby and the direction the team needs to go. Ironically, I feel the same about Devin.

In a vacuum, these seem like good pieces to build around... but I'm afraid the more potential they show the more we'll just try to shove those square pieces into a round hole.

So your idea is to surround Wemby with 4 legit 3&D ? Sochan brings this versability, that would make this team unique. I cant image the plan will be Wemby in ISO, with rest of the guys beyond 3pt line.

I would still keep Sochan, Young (as backup) and Vassell from this core. Add legit PG, who can create his own shot and 6,6 fwd with 3&D. In my mind Wemby is a C, he cannot play next to another 7ft

[scott]

Interesting - can you expand on this? I don't agree here, but wanted to hear your thoughts.

I think I can see your argument more with Vassell - he represents one of the less valuable archetypes in basketball very prone to being overrated as a primarily offensive shooting guard with minimal creation and minimal defensive versatility. The upper end of his archetype is Devin Booker and he's drawing dead to ever becoming as good as him. Other guys of his archetype like Jalen Green, Demar DeRozan, and Zach Lavine have not affected winning nearly as much as their contracts dictate. He's smaller than a Khris Middleton so he inherently has less defensive versatility. His primary value as a tough shot maker is limited by his size and non-elite athleticism. In that sense, I agree somewhat although I would argue that he has shown enough improvement as a playmaker this year to continue to invest in him. Still, if you could get all of his skills in a guy who's actually wing-sized, that'd certainly be more ideal.

Sochan I think I'd disagree with a little more. To me at least, a fully realized and developed Sochan (like 7-8 years from now) is basically a guy who can guard 2-4 full time and is switchable 1-5 in spurts defensively. He's potentially a powerful antidote to the rising new breed of big creators who the Spurs will inevitably encounter in the playoffs. We've seen his success already against guys like Scottie Barnes and Luka, but this also applies in the future to guys like Anthony Edwards, Cade Cunningham, SGA/Jalen Williams, Tatum, Cooper Flagg (?) etc. I'd say his handle and passing are already at least above average for his size and age, and as long as you believe in his ability to fix his jump shot to league average you have a guy who offensively can attack a rotating defense and act as a vital cog in a dribble-pass-shoot offense.

While you can certainly find adequate big wing defenders, the potential to combine that with a versatile offensive piece is more rare and that's what I'm hoping to see from Sochan. Can he protect the rim and handle true bigs down low? No but that probably comes down to roster construction and the need to pair him up with another big wing. I get that if you don't believe in his ability to ever develop into a league average shooter that that significantly limits his fit with the roster, but I disagree that a fully actualized Sochan isn't a good fit with Wemby. I guess I envision a T-Wolves style defense with a GOAT rim protector flanked by 2 elite perimeter defenders in the future. Pair a guy like Sochan with someone like Castle or Devin Carter in this year's draft, let it percolate for a few years, and I think you have a legit chance to build a top 1 defense.

Your posts are always great, and I appreciate the perspective you bring.

I'm not sure I can fully argue against anything you've said. I think you nail it, and I only disagree with some of the fine details. With Devin, he doesn't have the 1v1 ability of the other guys in his archetype, which makes him even less valuable to me. And he doesn't seem like someone who can show up in the clutch, because we've yet to see him do it.

With Jeremy, I just get the vibe that we'll be forever stuck with the inconsistency. I'm sure sure he possesses the processing speed to be the fullest version of himself. We often seem him get stuck because he hasn't properly anticipated what will happen. Can this change? For sure... I'm just not sure it will. I also could be WAY off on this, but he seems a little too nonchalant to me. There isn't an observable drive for greatness... it seems like he takes a laissez-faire approach and is happen with whatever happens. I don't have a proper POV to gauge this though and could DEFINITELY be wrong.

[scott]

So your idea is to surround Wemby with 4 legit 3&D ? Sochan brings this versability, that would make this team unique. I cant image the plan will be Wemby in ISO, with rest of the guys beyond 3pt line.

I would still keep Sochan, Young (as backup) and Vassell from this core. Add legit PG, who can create his own shot and 6,6 fwd with 3&D. In my mind Wemby is a C, he cannot play next to another 7ft

I posted what I think is the ideal lineup construction around Wemby, and no... it isn't four 3&D. Not sure how you jumped to that conclusion.

[SpursBills]

Your posts are always great, and I appreciate the perspective you bring.

I'm not sure I can fully argue against anything you've said. I think you nail it, and I only disagree with some of the fine details. With Devin, he doesn't have the 1v1 ability of the other guys in his archetype, which makes him even less valuable to me. And he doesn't seem like someone who can show up in the clutch, because we've yet to see him do it.

With Jeremy, I just get the vibe that we'll be forever stuck with the inconsistency. I'm sure sure he possesses the processing speed to be the fullest version of himself. We often seem him get stuck because he hasn't properly anticipated what will happen. Can this change? For sure... I'm just not sure it will. I also could be WAY off on this, but he seems a little too nonchalant to me. There isn't an observable drive for greatness... it seems like he takes a laissez-faire approach and is happen with whatever happens. I don't have a proper POV to gauge this though and could DEFINITELY be wrong.

I hear you regarding Vassell. We will have to see going forward, but his archetype is also why I was down on Branham during the draft and am still down on him no matter if his shooting and confidence ever come around. A while ago I questioned what Branham's value would be even if he panned out, and he is unfortunately living up to those fears. An undersized scoring guard with minimal creation potential is almost never going to be worth his contract.

I think the opposite is true for guys like Sochan. Defense first guys who impact multiple aspects of the game are generally paid less than their true impact. If you look at guys like Draymond Green, Aaron Gordon, Deni Avdija, even Derrick White, these guys are generally serially underpaid compared to what they bring to the team. Sochan is not remotely a good player right now and is basically just an inconsistent role player. I understand the concern regarding nonchalance, from another perspective I would argue that that same nonchalance may allow him to be more resistant to pressure situations in the future. Regardless, years 3-4 are typically when I expect to see a "jump", so I think we will have a better idea at that time whether he will be a valuable core piece moving forward.

[Mal]

Not sure how you jumped to that conclusion.

Assumed that by you sending Vassell and Sochan away

[Knoxxx]

Your posts are always great, and I appreciate the perspective you bring.

I'm not sure I can fully argue against anything you've said. I think you nail it, and I only disagree with some of the fine details. With Devin, he doesn't have the 1v1 ability of the other guys in his archetype, which makes him even less valuable to me. And he doesn't seem like someone who can show up in the clutch, because we've yet to see him do it.

With Jeremy, I just get the vibe that we'll be forever stuck with the inconsistency. I'm sure sure he possesses the processing speed to be the fullest version of himself. We often seem him get stuck because he hasn't properly anticipated what will happen. Can this change? For sure... I'm just not sure it will. I also could be WAY off on this, but he seems a little too nonchalant to me. There isn't an observable drive for greatness... it seems like he takes a laissez-faire approach and is happen with whatever happens. I don't have a proper POV to gauge this though and could DEFINITELY be wrong.

I thought what makes Sochan a nice player is his nonstop motor. We've seen him get every rebound, do things like go 8 PTs and 8 REB in a quarter, then he vanishes. Usually it's him being inconsistent, but v MEM he did that and then Pop takes him out for 12 minutes or so. Then he never gets back into the same flow. Seems like we can say that about several of our young players, when they are on they look good but they are very OFF AND ON.

So I guess the main thing I am disagreeing with is that he is "nonchalant". Several times when he made a bonehead mistake I have seen him hold both hands to head in the middle of a game. To me that indicated this is someone that competes hard and cares, and I suspected that Pop talked him down from the ledge many times to get over it and move on to the next play.

Part of his inconsistency and others may also be the grind of losing 60 game in a season. For example, on the rodeo road trip they looked totally out of gas. Then when they came home they seemed to rejuvenate back into the competitive version for a bit. Now here we go again, OFF AND ON, mercifully ending soon so the team can finally retool.

[Knoxxx]

Sochan is still young and listed at 230. Does anyone think he bulks up to 250 or so when filling out more. Also noticed he is extremely light on is feet when not tripping over them, maybe we don’t want him to put on much more weight so he can keep chasing smalls on the perimeter. Though Doncic is a bit fatter than most and even looked taller than him to me. Speaking of which. Sochan certainly turned up the D on Durant in game 2 v game 1.

Edit: being mostly a Sochan sniffer I also meant to mention how easily he dunks I believe he has a 7+ wingspan but not sure we ever got a combine or more recent measurement on that. Did see an 8-11 standing reach per Google.

Edit 2: Sochan at 250 with same hops and agility could be real nasty!

[NASpurs]

Sochan is still young and listed at 230. Does anyone think he bulks up to 250 or so when filling out more. Also noticed he is extremely light on is feet when not tripping over them, maybe we don’t want him to put on much more weight so he can keep chasing smalls on the perimeter. Though Doncic is a bit fatter than most and even looked taller than him to me. Speaking of which. Sochan certainly turned up the D on Durant in game 2 v game 1.

Edit: being mostly a Sochan sniffer I also meant to mention how easily he dunks I believe he has a 7+ wingspan but not sure we ever got a combine or more recent measurement on that. Did see an 8-11 standing reach per Google.

Edit 2: Sochan at 250 with same hops and agility could be real nasty!

He'll be like Ron Artest at 250

[JeffDuncan]

You can't claim it's because of defense …



It was because of defense. You’ve forgotten how things were then. You’re pretending they already knew Zollins would turn out so bad, for one thing. They did not know that. Don’t confuse current knowledge with what was known at the beginning.



Tre is an intelligent defender …



No, he isn’t. He’s gotten better over the course of this season, but left to himself he’s a stupid defender. He has shown a bad tendency to abandon his assignment, and just run away to do something else, leaving his man wide open. He’ll do other stupid stuff, too. You’ve never noticed how he is, but some people have.



Jeremy has the size, but as a wing is obviously too slow to be point of attack defender against elite guards.



Tell it to the Spurs coaches. For example, Sochan got the assignment of guarding SGA in the OKC games.

Don’t confuse your own personal opinion, now, with what was known at the beginning of the season.


Even to this day, …


It’s about the way things were at the beginning of the season. That’s when the Sochan-at-PG lineup happened, it isn’t happening now. Your personal opinion about now is not relevant.

The reason Pop penciled Sochan in at PG was because he wanted Sochan instead of Tre on defense. He then implemented, or tried to implement, a “positionless” system on offense, where it didn’t matter who initiated the action. The plan might have worked, on paper, but it didn’t work out in games, as everyone has learned.

[Knoxxx]

Sochan didn’t finish strong but he basically neutralized Markannen which was big.

[freetiago]

LMAO what game are you watching. Markannen bullied Sochan all night. He was dunking on him in isos or destroying him on back door cuts. Only reason Lauri didn’t go off for 40 is because his team ignored him for the whole game. Sochan also missed every single shot he took in the 4th including two airballed 3s

[Knoxxx]

Clearly a fool who didn’t see Sohan handily outplay LM in the first half. And incurious enough not to notice his FIVE STEALS. LM didn’t know WTF hit him the first he wasn’t expecting it.

[ambchang]

LMAO what game are you watching. Markannen bullied Sochan all night. He was dunking on him in isos or destroying him on back door cuts. Only reason Lauri didn’t go off for 40 is because his team ignored him for the whole game. Sochan also missed every single shot he took in the 4th including two airballed 3s

This is when you lose all objectivity because you have an axe to grind.

[Dejounte]

It seems like he’s really embracing the rebounding role. And then he was a defensive menace as well.

[Dejounte]

Clearly a fool who didn’t see Sohan handily outplay LM in the first half. And incurious enough not to notice his FIVE STEALS. LM didn’t know WTF hit him the first he wasn’t expecting it.
Just straight up trying to get attention like several posters on here tbh

[Knoxxx]

Sochan played his role to a tee again Wednesday night as the Spurs beat Utah 118-111 (https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/takeaways-devin-vassell-spurs-jazz-score-19370219.php) to earn consecutive wins for just the fifth time this season. He finished with 17 points, nine rebounds and a career-best five steals and led the Spurs with eight deflections, two loose ball recoveries and seven contested 3-pointers, per NBA tracking data.
"Jeremy has been playing great on the defensive end," said guard Devin Vassell, who led the Spurs with 31 points in Salt Lake City.

And that stellar defense has come against foes of all shapes and sizes, whether it be Utah's speedy 6-3 point guard Collin Sexton or his towering teammate.
Sochan muscled up to mitigate the size difference between himself and All-Star 7-footer Lauri Markkanen, making the Jazz's leading scorer labor to score 12 points on 5 of 11 in their individual matchup. Overall, the Jazz shot 10 of 21 against Sochan, who continues to raise his profile as one of the league's most irksome defenders.

Spurs’ Jeremy Sochan is quietly turning into one of the NBA’s toughest defenders (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/spurs-jeremy-sochan-is-quietly-turning-into-one-of-the-nba-s-toughest-defenders/ar-BB1kHMiT)

Same article also leads in discussing his defense against Durant/Booker:

Durant shot 12 of 17 on his way to 29 points that night in San Antonio. But Sochan made the Suns' masterful 6-foot-11 playmaker sweat for every bucket, and Durant seemed to run out of steam with just five points on six shots and one turnover in the decisive fourth quarter. Overall, Suns players scored just 14 points on 6 of 15 when defended by the feisty 6-8, 230-pound Sochan. Durant and his All-NBA teammate Devin Booker combined for 12 points on 5 of 11 with two turnovers when matched up against the Spurs' second-year forward.

I also stumbled on a scatter plot analysis that showed Sochan was one of the most versatile defenders in the league, but didn't save the link and now can't find it.

[Knoxxx]

Just straight up trying to get attention like several posters on here tbh

I watched the whole game and Sochan is in the middle of everything constantly agitating. He has a nonstop motor and can guard most anyone on the court. That was the best I had seen him guard someone 7-feet tall, though I question that is a real height LM looks more like 6-10 to me. Then again, everyone looks smaller when Wemby is out there. The Claxton guy the other night listed at 6-11, I thought he looked like a Pee Wee leaguer vs Wemby. Probably because he is thin too.

But back on topic, Sochan does numerous things that don't show up in the box score, I had no idea they were tracking deflections, loose ball recoveries, and contested 3s. The dude is everywhere is what I saw, and what that shows. His latest trick is to try and steal the dribble handoffs and it looks like a promising tactic. When it comes to finding new and annoying ways to punk the other team, Sochan is a PIMP. What I also notice is that similar to Wemby, he discourages a lot of shots while also getting the ball out of the hands of the opposing scoring threat he is guarding.

So I think we got some idiots that don't watch full games and/or just check box scores or watch the last few minutes only. Then come on here commenting like an authority on the topic when they don't actually know their head from their ass.

Edit: Google searching seems to indicate that LM barefoot height is allegedly 7-0.

[Raven]

besides the obvious improvement in rebounding, the most obvious improvement he has shown (but not just him) is the consistency in going around screens. The amount of free 3 pointers given has decreased greatly to everyone's benefit.

[freetiago]

Clutch shooter :rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin: rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=635&GameID=0022301058&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=MISS%20Sochan%2025%27%203PT%20Pullup%20Jump% 20Shot

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=585&GameID=0022301058&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=MISS%20Sochan%2025%27%203PT%20Jump%20Shot


"Steals" where the 20+ turnover team throws a bad pass that lands into him

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=48&GameID=0022301058&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Sochan%20STEAL%20(1%20STL)

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=86&GameID=0022301058&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Sochan%20STEAL%20(2%20STL)

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=324&GameID=0022301058&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Sochan%20STEAL%20(3%20STL)

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=389&GameID=0022301058&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Sochan%20STEAL%20(4%20STL)

[Knoxxx]

Clutch shooter :rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin: rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=635&GameID=0022301058&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=MISS%20Sochan%2025%27%203PT%20Pullup%20Jump% 20Shot

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=585&GameID=0022301058&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=MISS%20Sochan%2025%27%203PT%20Jump%20Shot


"Steals" where the 20+ turnover team throws a bad pass that lands into him

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=48&GameID=0022301058&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Sochan%20STEAL%20(1%20STL)

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=86&GameID=0022301058&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Sochan%20STEAL%20(2%20STL)

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=324&GameID=0022301058&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Sochan%20STEAL%20(3%20STL)

https://www.nba.com/stats/events?CFID=&CFPARAMS=&GameEventID=389&GameID=0022301058&Season=2023-24&flag=1&title=Sochan%20STEAL%20(4%20STL)

Your weirder even than me!

I counter with:



https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-pgjeuez8OEyMBVRhUg_MMx2jl4ngq_fA6WTq5lrbGy319jBn4I 2a08klIzlh0UTPcdjmgizpxUg_B4VCBPFnqA/messages/@.id==AJMunNZzVCo5ZgXGhgKEiLBgk0E/content/parts/@.id==1.2/thumbnail?appid=YMailNorrin&downloadWhenThumbnailFails=true&pid=1.2






Jeremy Sochan Highlights vs Utah Jazz (17 pts, 9 reb, 5 stl) | 2023-24 NBA Season (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwxmf0aS6qQ)
youtube.com (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zwxmf0aS6qQ)

[Knoxxx]

So your idea is to surround Wemby with 4 legit 3&D ? Sochan brings this versability, that would make this team unique. I cant image the plan will be Wemby in ISO, with rest of the guys beyond 3pt line.

I would still keep Sochan, Young (as backup) and Vassell from this core. Add legit PG, who can create his own shot and 6,6 fwd with 3&D. In my mind Wemby is a C, he cannot play next to another 7ft

Ya'll are trippin' balls, he ain't going nowhere an ain't coming off the bench. Buy your Sochan jerseys and wigs before the price triples, he's legit!

[heyheymymy]

1783716164033454362

[PhantomDashCam]

1787940090569711905

[BackHome]

Damn that is a pretty cool tat - As far as Sochan I am excited to see what he can bring in his third season. One thing is that I don’t think people understand how hard it is to play PG in the NBA for your first time. I think that helped him long term but hurt him short term, and I think will see a much better version next season.

[KobesAchilles]

Damn that is a pretty cool tat - As far as Sochan I am excited to see what he can bring in his third season. One thing is that I don’t think people understand how hard it is to play PG in the NBA for your first time. I think that helped him long term but hurt him short term, and I think will see a much better version next season.
I mean no shit playing PG is hard. Pop was one of those "people" who didn't understand that. Even if you are a natural water half full guy, the way Pop handled it was about the worst you could do. Like if you really wanted to experiment with Sochan as PG then bring in a vet who can teach Sochan how to play PG. Pop only has so much time on his hand and he really had nobody on the team able to teach Sochan how to play PG. No coach, no player, nobody. And I don' think this helped Sochan as much as you think it did. Bc at the end of the day, he never learned how to play the position.

Tbh the Spurs need to hire Oberto to teach Sochan how to play basketball. Bc those are the areas we need him in. He also needs to learn how to make the corner 3. I haven't "given up" on Sochan but he was abench player on Baylor and he will be a great bench player for us in the future. I just hope it's for like 15 million a year.

[Pauleta14]

The Sochan PG experiment ended mid december.

Not sure why it still used as an excuse ... :lol

[rascal]

The Sochan PG experiment ended mid december.

Not sure why it still used as an excuse ... :lol

It only lasted 18 games. Sochan was still very inconsistent after that.

The Spurs overrated Sochan's abilities just like this fanboard.

[scott]

1787940090569711905

Off topic, but I love when people need to add in "I have two tattoos and can't imagine sitting through this..." as if the a little "live laugh love" tat on her wrist or some bullshit makes you an expert on tattoos :lol

[Chomag]

I'm seeing Sochan eventually being like a Frank Brickowski , which isn't nessaasarly a bad thing.

I'm wondering how many left on this board know who that is lol

[PhantomDashCam]

Off topic, but I love when people need to add in "I have two tattoos and can't imagine sitting through this..." as if the a little "live laugh love" tat on her wrist or some bullshit makes you an expert on tattoos :lol

Yeah it reminds me of Will Ferrell’s character in ‘Blades of Glory’ where he’s got like 3 small tats :lol

https://y.yarn.co/b135a575-d759-4d60-a8ba-9c2d650e6f07_text.gif

[Pauleta14]

I'm seeing Sochan eventually being like a Frank Brickowski , which isn't nessaasarly a bad thing.

I'm wondering how many left on this board know who that is lol



https://youtu.be/0d-zPmc8vd8?si=1tDjDeJXJLkYi0pA

[Knoxxx]

1787940090569711905

Imagine changing your mind and having to get that lasered off your back, OMG!

I miss the Wemby colored hair though, thought that was going to be a thing this season!

[JPB]

It only lasted 18 games. Sochan was still very inconsistent after that.

The Spurs overrated Sochan's abilities just like this fanboard.

And/or their own abilities.

[Knoxxx]

As was pointed out, Sochan did improve his ball handling, he can dribble the ball up the court in transition decently. And it got us more lottery balls, the value of which we find out tomorrow.

[scott]

1789357069876732004

Doesn't seem like he "hates" Wemby

But, what a lame chant... c'mon San Antonio!

[CorrectCrusader]

https://youtu.be/0d-zPmc8vd8?si=1tDjDeJXJLkYi0pA

tf is that ejection lol Crawford's always been a bitch

[John B]

https://youtu.be/0d-zPmc8vd8?si=1tDjDeJXJLkYi0pA

I wonder what he said to Rodman’s gf Jack Haley on his way out :lol

[Jordan Jackson]

Jeremy is going to “vibes”’and “culture”’his way into permanent spot on this spurs roster. The skill he’s displayed so far however doesn’t justify it though. You can’t have guys on the court who can’t shoot. I’m not sure if he’s ever going to be a consistent shooter.

[John B]

Jeremy is going to “vibes”’and “culture”’his way into permanent spot on this spurs roster. The skill he’s displayed so far however doesn’t justify it though. You can’t have guys on the court who can’t shoot. I’m not sure if he’s ever going to be a consistent shooter.

Bowen had one shot, the corner 3. Avery, even TP wasn’t a good outside shot until towards later.

[scott]

John B's never ending optimism, fueled by Sniffs, could power the eastern seaboard

[Jordan Jackson]

John B's never ending optimism, fueled by Sniffs, could power the eastern seaboard

God Bless his heart. Dude talking about basketball from the late 1990s to compare this era of modern basketball that is 3point dependent.

Wemby needs space to operate. You Shouldn’t have players around him who can’t shoot. Period.

[Dejounte]

John B's never ending optimism, fueled by Sniffs, could power the eastern seaboard

Balances out with JPB ‘s never-ending pessimism tbh. Both sides are unbearable. I know you and others feel only that way on one side, depending on how satisfied you are with the current state of the Spurs… but we’re all one big dysfunctional family I suppose.

[scott]

Balances out with JPB (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=7123) ‘s never-ending pessimism tbh. Both sides are unbearable. I know you and others feel only that way on one side, depending on how satisfied you are with the current state of the Spurs… but we’re all one big dysfunctional family I suppose.

I don't view JPB as quite that pessimistic (there are other posters to take the pessimism to extreme's), I put him more in a slightly-pessimistic realistic place, but his pessimism is grounded in logic (I'd put myself in the same camp, though I shouldn't be the one to judge my own placement). There is certainly a contingent that is far more pessimistic, dare I say cynical.

John B is a beam of never-extinguishable sunshine, and I actually quite value his optimism. Though I don't agree with it, I like reading it. He does in fact provide a yin to the cynical yang on this board.

[ace3g]

C7QwjokibFg

[SouthernFryd]

Sochan has made me re-think drafting someone mostly based on their Defense.

[poopbox]

Dude just doesn't do anything at a high level. Like what power forward in the nba can you say Sochan is clearly better than? I legit can't think of one. Maybe Obi Toppin on a bad day.

Hopefully we lowball him and he moves on. I think Pop ruined him playing him at point guard.

[RC_Drunkford]

good to see him work on his handles and post moves. That along with his 3-point shot is where he should try to improve. Year 3 is gonna be crucial for him, I expect to see a huge leap, otherwise he's a bench player.

[barakz21]

C7QwjokibFg

Hopefully he improves his touch inside. He’s had so many post plays this season that were perfect except the balls rim out.

[exstatic]

Sochan has made me re-think drafting someone mostly based on their Defense.

He was drafted on the basis of being a 6’9” connector. That’s something the Spurs always look for, secondary ball handling.

[John B]

He works hard on his game. I think he’ll have a lot of people eating crow just in ST alone

[Knoxxx]

He works hard on his game. I think he’ll have a lot of people eating crow just in ST alone

Plus who else do we have to guard the donkey?

[benefactor]

He was drafted on the basis of being a 6’9” connector. That’s something the Spurs always look for, secondary ball handling.
Until they came up with the brilliant idea of trying to make him a primary ball handler

[Atl Spur]

I’m positive most of you have never played sports! In this development year, we did just fine. Two top 8 picks were secured and we are moving in an upward trajectory with a generational player…..no sniff or faux optimism. Sit back and let Patfo cook:) A lot of contrarians running amuck on this board.

[Das Texan]

https://youtu.be/0d-zPmc8vd8?si=1tDjDeJXJLkYi0pA

So many thoughts here:

1. RIP Bill Walton
2. Dennis Rodman was such a fucking gnat and this is one thing he was especially great at. That said, he would have really thrived in the flopping era of the NBA we are in now! LOL
3. I never liked seeing Frank in Seattle.

[Das Texan]

Also I'm in the camp of Sochan will be a good long term piece for the Spurs.

People forget how young he is. He is putting in work and effort and seems to be quite coachable. All good and positive things you want in an NBA prospect.

Will he be an NBA all Pro? Maybe not. But I think he can definitely carve out a long term role in this league and hopefully its in San Antonio. Once this team gets good and he really learns the nuances, he is going to be such an annoying pest to other players and just constantly get in their head and that alone is insanely valuable after seeing Rodman clip especially.

[timtonymanu]

I’m positive most of you have never played sports! In this development year, we did just fine. Two top 8 picks were secured and we are moving in an upward trajectory with a generational player…..no sniff or faux optimism. Sit back and let Patfo cook:) A lot of contrarians running amuck on this board.

Oh great. We’re doomed, the Miss Cleo guarantee lol.

[Atl Spur]

Also I'm in the camp of Sochan will be a good long term piece for the Spurs.

People forget how young he is. He is putting in work and effort and seems to be quite coachable. All good and positive things you want in an NBA prospect.

Will he be an NBA all Pro? Maybe not. But I think he can definitely carve out a long term role in this league and hopefully its in San Antonio. Once this team gets good and he really learns the nuances, he is going to be such an annoying pest to other players and just constantly get in their head and that alone is insanely valuable after seeing Rodman clip especially.

They don’t forget, they just refuse to acknowledge…… it’s a wash , rinse, repeat type of thing on here! lol

[rascal]

Also I'm in the camp of Sochan will be a good long term piece for the Spurs.

People forget how young he is. He is putting in work and effort and seems to be quite coachable. All good and positive things you want in an NBA prospect.

Will he be an NBA all Pro? Maybe not. But I think he can definitely carve out a long term role in this league and hopefully its in San Antonio. Once this team gets good and he really learns the nuances, he is going to be such an annoying pest to other players and just constantly get in their head and that alone is insanely valuable after seeing Rodman clip especially.

Sochan is awkward. Hopefully he isn't on the spurs long term. Want no part of another Rodman type player. Spurs can build a winner without that type of player.

You liked Rodman's style of play? I sure didn't

[J_Paco]

The only things similar between Jeremy and Dennis are their jersey numbers, hair color and body types.

They don't play the same way at all, unless Jeremy magically becomes the best rebounder since Ben Wallace.

With the moronic idea of playing him out of position, last season was practically a throw away season (unfortunately).

He did start to show that elite defensive potential people hoped he'd show. Gotta see if it can carry over into season 3, and he can truly become a PF version of Bruce Bowen.

[VBM]

Also I'm in the camp of Sochan will be a good long term piece for the Spurs.

People forget how young he is. He is putting in work and effort and seems to be quite coachable. All good and positive things you want in an NBA prospect.

Will he be an NBA all Pro? Maybe not. But I think he can definitely carve out a long term role in this league and hopefully its in San Antonio. Once this team gets good and he really learns the nuances, he is going to be such an annoying pest to other players and just constantly get in their head and that alone is insanely valuable after seeing Rodman clip especially.

Sounds like you're describing Zach Collins.

[vander]

Sochan will be our Doncic stopper

[John B]

Sochan will be our Doncic stopper

Sochan could be a pest and I could see Doncic’s face getting annoyed by Sochan every time. That alone will be quite entertaining

For now I’m rooting for Derrick/Jrue having great game slowing down Doncic/Kyrie.

[exstatic]

Sochan could be a pest and I could see Doncic’s face getting annoyed by Sochan every time. That alone will be quite entertaining

For now I’m rooting for Derrick/Jrue having great game slowing down Doncic/Kyrie.

His rookie year, during a timeout when the teams were crossing going to their benches, Sochan tweaked Doncic’s nipple, and Doncic kind of freaked a bit. I laughed.

[JPB]

I’m positive most of you have never played sports! In this development year, we did just fine. Two top 8 picks were secured and we are moving in an upward trajectory with a generational player…..no sniff or faux optimism. Sit back and let Patfo cook:) A lot of contrarians running amuck on this board.

Like you also never played pro sport.

In this development year, Wesley and Branham didn't improve much; or enough to show they could be future pieces, Sochan looked like he regressed, Collins definitely regressed to the point his contract has become an albatros, Keldon stagnated and Devin showed he can't be that second star, nor really developed a two man game with Victor.

Meanwhile, the admitted preseason goal of winning more wasn't reached, by an older coach who looked clueless and lost a times, despite one more year of "development" + Wemby, and spurs got two picks in admittedly one of the worst drafts in history, but outside of the top 2 who might be the only real valuable picks this year.

Meanwhile #2, OKC and its nice, young core finished on top of the league and will contend quickly, HOU with its nice, young core and inspired coach were a few games from the POs, and are reportedly looking to acquire another star, while spurs FO has been mediocre at best drafting these past years and are reasoning under an older philosophy that may not be adapted anymore to the modern NBA.

End of story, as we speaking, all spurs have is Wemby... and everything to build around. That's a hell of a piece to start with, but this team need a major rehaul and transformation. Lots of work to do, because other teams are working, and they're not gonna wait for us.

[LeBowen]

You post is spot on, except some bits.


Sochan looked like he regressed

He's definitely a better player, it's just that he's not progressing in the direction Spurs need him to progress. Read: shooting.
If our franchise players were two perimeter shooters, Jeremy would be great. But since he's useless outside the paint, he's just taking away from Wemby.


Meanwhile #2, OKC and its nice, young core finished on top of the league and will contend quickly

OKC won 24 games two years ago and 57 games this year.
In the meantime, they changed their entire core except for franchise player.
Devin is clearly better than anyone OKC had as second option two years ago.

If we look at their playoff rotation, they have just three players from 2022 rotation.
Since Giddey has become a negative asset, next year it's going to be just SGA and Dort who's good at his role, but he's just a role player.
Everyone else is new.

Biggest issue and question mark is if PATFO is capable of replacing more or less the entire roster in this and the next summer in order for Spurs to become a legit playoff team in 25-26 season.
Wemby and Devin are more guaranteed to be on the roster. Jeremy and maybe Tre could be there as decent role players, but everyone else has to go. None of them are good enough for playoff basketball.


HOU with its nice, young core and inspired coach were a few games form the PO and are reportedly looking to acquire another star

Same story as OKC. They went from 22 to 41 wins in just one year.
Sengun and Jalen Green the only players that were in the rotation two years ago.

Spurs fans need to realize long rebuilds don't work anymore.
We have a ton of assets, if we don't have a playoff ready roster at the start of 25-26 season, front office needs to go.
Draft two players, get a good veteran now. Fully focus on 2025 draft and FA and that should be it. No more looking at who's the best prospect in 2026. We got Wemby who's going to be an MVP candidate from 25-26 season. Maybe even next year, who knows.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/HoopsRumors/status/1799460967253753920

[ace3g]

C8UYysVNxLY

C8U7gAltn44

C8Usn4aNLc-

[Mugen]

International play should do him some good...

But based on that "highlight" reel, and to the surprise of no one, Poland is gonna be in trouble ....:lol

[ace3g]

Some vids of where his jumper is currently at.

C8NELbuuSWT

[spurraider21]

same hitch and flat trajectory

[ace3g]

C8xarRfMEaX

C8xaopNCLrF

Poland beat New Zealand 88-59

FIBA LiveStats (geniussports.com) (https://fibalivestats.dcd.shared.geniussports.com/u/POL/2490851/bs_en_AU.html#ASFSK)

Poland welcome Sochan, Ponitka takes over against New Zealand - FIBA Olympic Qualifying Tournament 2024 Valencia, Spain | FIBA.basketball (https://www.fiba.basketball/en/events/fiba-olympic-qualifying-tournament-2024-valencia-spain/news/poland-welcome-sochan-ponitka-takes-over-against-new-zealand)

[Dejounte]

Some vids of where his jumper is currently at.

C8NELbuuSWT

https://x.com/jeffgspurszone/status/1807092473862189382?s=46

Who has the better form?

[z0sa]

^ Castle already looks way more comfortable shooting than Sochan ever has, to this point in his career at least (Sochan).

[SpursDynasty85]

Both videos make me cringe. And we don’t have Chip anymore? T.T

[KobesAchilles]

Castle brings the ball way too low on his shot. You can’t get away with having a slow jumper from your hip in the nba. I am not impressed at all.

And Sochans jumper still looks horrible. What has he even been practicing? There’s literally nothing good about his jumper

[Dejounte]

Castle brings the ball way too low on his shot. You can’t get away with having a slow jumper from your hip in the nba. I am not impressed at all.

And Sochans jumper still looks horrible. What has he even been practicing? There’s literally nothing good about his jumper

https://x.com/dontolivernow/status/1807093214744138213?s=46

This low?

There are varying levels of intensity in practices. This looks like a casual shootaround where he wasn’t taking it seriously hence the slow jumper.

[emanueldavidginobili]

1807099408942600517

[RC_Drunkford]

1806384069669736582

[benefactor]

1806384069669736582
Jesus

[KobesAchilles]

https://x.com/dontolivernow/status/1807093214744138213?s=46

This low?

There are varying levels of intensity in practices. This looks like a casual shootaround where he wasn’t taking it seriously hence the slow jumper.
Lebron is an enigma. He never really learned how to shoot. He did his best but you wouldn’t call him a shooter. His shot is really all over the place which is why he fluctuates year to year with his shooting percentages. But what really helps him is his size and athleticism. He too big for small guards and he pushes off with his body to create the space and way to quick for the bigs and just uses his quickness to either get to the rim or do the step back on a back peddling big.

Castle doesn’t have the size or strength or athleticism of Lebron so that’s not really a good example. If Lebron were Castles size, strength, and athleticism he wouldn’t even be an all star never mind an all time great.

[ace3g]

Sochan quote after win vs Philippines

Jeremy Sochan:I still have to find the right rhythm, but the matches in Poland helped me with that. I think that the game against the Philippines was better than the match against New Zealand. It was my second game after the break, I still have to find the feeling of the game.I was supposed to play in Poland in only one match, but I asked members of our medical staff and coaches who flew with me from the United States if I could play in Sosnowiec. They agreed, but only for 12 minutes, so as planned, I appeared on the court only in the first half.

Comments after the match Poland - Philippines (pzkosz.pl) (https://pzkosz.pl/aktualnosci/n/68792/)


Poles better than the Philippines in the last friendly (pzkosz.pl) (https://pzkosz.pl/aktualnosci/n/68791/)

[Kevin]

The mind’s of Brian Wright pick hoarder needs to be studied after seeing Sochan’s most recent jumpers. Dude looks like a career NBA journeyman.

[Robz4000]

1806384069669736582

:rollin his shot looks worse than ever

[RC_Drunkford]

at least he made the shot

1806388615947170043

[benefactor]

What do basketball camps teach these days? When I went they taught you correct form. They put your hands in the proper position and put the ball in the proper position and you shot it like that until you shot it right. He should have never made it out of grade school with that form

[Gandalf]

at least he made the shot

1806388615947170043

Do the Spurs have a shooting coach since Chip left - and if so, does he need to be fired, or is Sochan just stubborn?

[Pauleta14]

What do basketball camps teach these days? When I went they taught you correct form. They put your hands in the proper position and put the ball in the proper position and you shot it like that until you shot it right. He should have never made it out of grade school with that form

If shooting was his only issue...

He lacks all fundamentals, ball handling, passing, has low BBIQ, plays head down etc

I sound like a hater that I'm not but I just don't understand how he was drafted that high, even in a weak draft , he's a 2RP player.

I'd love to eat my words

[Seventyniner]

That last shot by Sochan looks like it was him just messing around, not his normal shot.

[scott]

If shooting was his only issue...

He lacks all fundamentals, ball handling, passing, has low BBIQ, plays head down etc

I sound like a hater that I'm not but I just don't understand how he was drafted that high, even in a weak draft , he's a 2RP player.

I'd love to eat my words

For all the talk of how "weak" this draft was... I can count at least 5-7 guys who were available at #8 that are better prospects than Sochan was coming out of college.

We'll see what 2031 looks like, I guess.

[rankingtear]

For all the talk of how "weak" this draft was... I can count at least 5-7 guys who were available at #8 that are better prospects than Sochan was coming out of college.

We'll see what 2031 looks like, I guess.

Sochan would still get drafted high because of his size. Hard to fill the starting PF spot with non bigs. Salaun a lesser prospect went 6.

[exstatic]

If shooting was his only issue...

He lacks all fundamentals, ball handling, passing, has low BBIQ, plays head down etc

I sound like a hater that I'm not but I just don't understand how he was drafted that high, even in a weak draft , he's a 2RP player.

I'd love to eat my words

You are absolutely a hater, and none of those things are true.

[spursparker9]

What happened to Sochan tbh?

I thought his rookie year, everyone was singing his raise...high bball IQ, good defensive instinct, can be a quarterback and pass the ball (like Draymond).

Then it all went downhill and look like his Spurs career might not last beyond his 4 years rookie deal.

[exstatic]

What happened to Sochan tbh?

I thought his rookie year, everyone was singing his raise...high bball IQ, good defensive instinct, can be a quarterback and pass the ball (like Draymond).

Then it all went downhill and look like his Spurs career might not last beyond his 4 years rookie deal.

People’s hatred for Pop spilled onto Jeremy because of the experiment.

[Pauleta14]

You are absolutely a hater, and none of those things are true.

Why do you even waste time thinking that tbh?

If you read me I even said that "I'd love to eat my words"...

I'm not 15yo, I don't need to hate on anyone playing bb. I think you also said the same thing to me regarding Vassell last season lol Let's stop wit this bs bro, I wish the best to all of them, it's not personnal

Tell me Sochan doesn't play head down?

Tell me he has a good court vision

What about his handles? NBA level to you?

I presumed he has a low BBIQ bc of his countless reactions to pecific situations. Sport gives you that, you can't hide who you are and high or low BBIQ are alwasy noticeable.

He wasn't even starting in college and wasn't picked bc of his talent but his physical abilities in a weak draft where PATFO opted for a project/gamble

I'm still hoping he improves and think his NT team experience will be great for him, but I'm not going to pretend I like this player if I don't.

Hate doesn't have to always be a reason

[Pauleta14]

What happened to Sochan tbh?

I thought his rookie year, everyone was singing his raise...high bball IQ, good defensive instinct, can be a quarterback and pass the ball (like Draymond).

Then it all went downhill and look like his Spurs career might not last beyond his 4 years rookie deal.

I stopped watching NBA for a few seasons, came back last summer bc of Wemby

I started re-educating myself on the Spurs's roster and was reading everywhere how Wemby's duo with Sochan would be amazing

First vid of Pop I see is him almost getting emotional comparing Sochan to... Manu! (lmao). Not knowing him I was expecting a crafty smart dude etc

Imagine my surprise after the 1s games... :lol

I got killed by all ST all timers calling me a Wemby Stan, a hater blabla, I waited and watched more thinking maybe I was wrong...

Only to notice zero improvement at all and a massive liability on the court.

No idea if it's fixable, I'd like him to come off the bench to maybe push him to win his spot. He doesn't seem to have ever been challenged (hence his reaction after the PG experiment?)

[rankingtear]

If shooting was his only issue...

He lacks all fundamentals, ball handling, passing, has low BBIQ, plays head down etc

I sound like a hater that I'm not but I just don't understand how he was drafted that high, even in a weak draft , he's a 2RP player.

I'd love to eat my words

All of this are good for his position and he is an all world defender. The main problem is his scoring and getting used to expanding it. He goes top 10 in this draft no question. Teams invest in versatile defenders more than ever because of all the switching and jumbo initiators. Watch the 2nd to last OKC game and just focus on Sochan, you see his elite on ball and off ball defense.

[Pauleta14]

All of this are good for his position and he is an all world defender. The main problem is his scoring and getting used to expanding it. He goes top 10 in this draft no question. Teams invest in versatile defenders more than ever because of all the switching and jumbo initiators. Watch the 2nd to last OKC game and just focus on Sochan, you see his elite on ball and off ball defense.

Future will tell but many think this draft is weaker than the 22'

You'd have to be a hater not to acknowledge his defensive abilities and potential, but beyond his shooting, his overall offensive game is a liability.

We've seen when he was out at the end that even with gleague players the team played better, more fluid.

The real hope is bc of his age, let's wait and see/hope

[scott]

All of this are good for his position and he is an all world defender. The main problem is his scoring and getting used to expanding it. He goes top 10 in this draft no question. Teams invest in versatile defenders more than ever because of all the switching and jumbo initiators. Watch the 2nd to last OKC game and just focus on Sochan, you see his elite on ball and off ball defense.

Lol, no they aren't... and no he isn't.

Sochan shows great defensive potential, and he's currently a good, yet inconsistent defender. Calling him an all world defender in his current state is laughable. Spurs fan will say anything to make them feel better about this roster.

[RC_Drunkford]

you can't really evaluate a prospect in year 2, especially when he got played out of position for half a season. Year 3 is where you need to see a jump, so this year is crucial for Sochan, Branham and Wesley. They have to show major improvement.

[rascal]

you can't really evaluate a prospect in year 2, especially when he got played out of position for half a season. Year 3 is where you need to see a jump, so this year is crucial for Sochan, Branham and Wesley. They have to show major improvement.

It was for 18 games.

[rankingtear]

Lol, no they aren't... and no he isn't.

Sochan shows great defensive potential, and he's currently a good, yet inconsistent defender. Calling him an all world defender in his current state is laughable. Spurs fan will say anything to make them feel better about this roster.

Top 3 perimeter iso defender and top 3 matchup difficulty. 94 percentile in DEPM post PG experiment good for top 20 in the league. Held guards to 42% FG. Last 15 games held opponent to 5% below their avg FG % good for 7th in the league. How is this laughable?

[Pauleta14]

you can't really evaluate a prospect in year 2, especially when he got played out of position for half a season. Year 3 is where you need to see a jump, so this year is crucial for Sochan, Branham and Wesley. They have to show major improvement.

I guess you mean one can't draw conclusions after year 2, because of course you can evaluate, he'd be a Junior in College and should be able to show a lot more a this stage having worked in a NBA environment and the privilege of being given a starting spot (even better to learn/get better)

We're all hoping for the "jump" you're talking about but it's a fact that he's vastly disapointed until now.

(and again the PG experiment ended the 1st week of december, not half way into the season)

[RC_Drunkford]

I guess you mean one can't draw conclusions after year 2, because of course you can evaluate, he'd be a Junior in College and should be able to show a lot more a this stage having worked in a NBA environment and the privilege of being given a starting spot (even better to learn/get better)

We're all hoping for the "jump" you're talking about but it's a fact that he's vastly disapointed until now.

(and again the PG experiment ended the 1st week of december, not half way into the season)

players always struggle in their 2nd year, that's pretty common. History says year 3 and 5 is where the biggest improvements are occuring. Ok 18 games and after that it took another 10 or so til Tre Jones started. Then it took another 30 for Pop to find out the right defensive schemes. The coaching didn't help anybody last season.

I don't understand what's so disappointing? He's better than Dyson Daniels, Johnny Davis, Ousmane Dieng and Ochai Agbaji who were drafted right before or after him. Mark Williams and Shaedon Sharpe can barely get on the floor. His production is better than Tari Eason's and not much worse than Jalen Duren's. Did you expect him to be an All-Star in year 2?

The only guy drafted after Sochan who's clearly better is Jalen Williams

[Pauleta14]

players always struggle in their 2nd year, that's pretty common. History says year 3 and 5 is where the biggest improvements are occuring. Ok 18 games and after that it took another 10 or so til Tre Jones started. Then it took another 30 for Pop to find out the right defensive schemes. The coaching didn't help anybody last season.

I don't understand what's so disappointing? He's better than Dyson Daniels, Johnny Davis, Ousmane Dieng and Ochai Agbaji who were drafted right before or after him. Mark Williams and Shaedon Sharpe can barely get on the floor. His production is better than Tari Eason's and not much worse than Jalen Duren's. Did you expect him to be an All-Star in year 2?

The only guy drafted after Sochan who's clearly better is Jalen Williams

By disapointed I wasn't referring to his draft class but as a starter for an NBA team in his 2nd season. I think he should've been challended more but with PATFO's strategy didn't have vets to look up or competition to make him better.

I discovered him thing season and was expecting something spceial bc of Pop's words and the fans opinions on social medias, so maybe it's bc I missed his best side from his rookie year, but aside some (occasional) defensive prowesses I've been stunned by the limitations he's shown in almost every area of the game. His 3pts % is far from being my main concern for ex.

I know you think I'm a hater but I genuinely hope you're right and he shuts everybody's mouth next season, we're all in the same boat

[ambchang]

If you only watch his tictok lowlights posted by people looking for clickbait you’d think he is a rando playing in an nba game, but yet he isn’t. But some people are still stupid enough to use these tictok videos as a gauge of some sort and not realize people can make any player look like the next Michael jordan or the next Anthony Bennett with video editing.

[Knoxxx]

Sochan showed SGA who was boss 1 v 1 their last meeting.

[MannyIsGod]

I guess you mean one can't draw conclusions after year 2, because of course you can evaluate, he'd be a Junior in College and should be able to show a lot more a this stage having worked in a NBA environment and the privilege of being given a starting spot (even better to learn/get better)

We're all hoping for the "jump" you're talking about but it's a fact that he's vastly disapointed until now.

(and again the PG experiment ended the 1st week of december, not half way into the season)


I don't know if I'd say any of the picks from that year have vastly disappointed. They haven't achieved their full potential but none of them is a complete bust. None of these players were locks. Sochan is gonna be an NBA players for a long time. The other two IDK but they're also late firsts.

[RC_Drunkford]

By disapointed I wasn't referring to his draft class but as a starter for an NBA team in his 2nd season. I think he should've been challended more but with PATFO's strategy didn't have vets to look up or competition to make him better.

I discovered him thing season and was expecting something spceial bc of Pop's words and the fans opinions on social medias, so maybe it's bc I missed his best side from his rookie year, but aside some (occasional) defensive prowesses I've been stunned by the limitations he's shown in almost every area of the game. His 3pts % is far from being my main concern for ex.

I know you think I'm a hater but I genuinely hope you're right and he shuts everybody's mouth next season, we're all in the same boat

I mean the playmaking part was always overrated with him. I don't see any playmaking chops at all. But he did improve his shot and had some games where he got 10+ boards, it's just inconsistent which has to be expected from young players. This season though the jury is out, he has to show major improvement otherwise he's a bench player.

[Pauleta14]

I mean the playmaking part was always overrated with him. I don't see any playmaking chops at all. But he did improve his shot and had some games where he got 10+ boards, it's just inconsistent which has to be expected from young players. This season though the jury is out, he has to show major improvement otherwise he's a bench player.

Look, in the end I still believe in him long term, he has really special defensive profile and instinct that are worth the time and patience even if it does nowhere in the end.

I also think the absence of veterans and playmakers/PG impacted him on and off the court even more than it did Vic and Devin (who were greatly handicaped as a well)

(I probably should've started with that lol...)

However, I firmly believe in the effect of merit being the main factor for playing time. The fault in prob AGAIN on PATFO and their stupid roster built, but Sochan had imo a bad introduction of the NBA life by being too "protected" and "excused" for whatever stupid decisions he made. He knew he'd start anyway even if he sucked. At some point I think it's didn't help him.

I dislike his body language and lack of concern for the mistakes he makes, his "laid back" attitude in a competitive environement is just weird (and maybe bc of his age but also Pop's coaching, I'm not sure tbh).

I hope the step the Spurs are making this season changes him, I want him focused,angry and willing to shut ppl's mouth (he's on social medias and 100% aware of the criticism).

Enough of the entertaining troll, I can't help but think it's linked to his productions.

I hope PATFO brings another vet and /or competition for him, he needs it more than anyone else in the roster.

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs new shooting coach doing work. Where is Chip?

1808194924904357899

[Seventyniner]

I sure hope these are focus reps and not game speed. His right hand is not directly under the ball either. We probably just have to resign ourselves to hoping that he can make this form work rather than adopting a more traditional one.

[Mr. Body]

I don't know how fucking hard it is to shoot in all one motion.

[Cardinal]

Yikes it doesn’t look much better at all

[Degoat]

It doesn’t look pretty but all that matters is the ball going through the net

[KobesAchilles]

Didn’t know that watching somebody shoot a basketball could cause physical pain until right now when I saw Sochans new shot.

I don’t want to hear shit about him becoming a good shooter in the future. Also this (unfairly?) makes me feel like the Castle pick was a waste

[SpursDynasty85]

Not sure why but looks like he always puts the ball close to the middle of his body first and then over his right eye causing an awkward start to his shot. Once he gets it over his right eye it looks passable. Not sure why he needs so long to get it on top of his right eye.

[timvp]

I thought the video was buffering -- but it was just Sochan's worsening hitch :cry

[Mitch Cumsteen]

I sure hope these are focus reps and not game speed. His right hand is not directly under the ball either. We probably just have to resign ourselves to hoping that he can make this form work rather than adopting a more traditional one.

It's very difficult to see the ball coming off his hand in those clips, but it still looks like it's coming off with sidespin instead of backspin. I don't have any faith that he can make his shot work like that. It's one thing to adjust your footwork a little, or maybe move the release point. But when you make it come off your hand like a knuckleball, you've got next to no chance of it being consistent.

It's incredible to me that he shoots 78% from the line when he doesn't let his off hand interfere with the ball, and yet he's jacking up these practice shots with it nearly on top of the ball. How on god's green earth does a professional basketball player with parents who played the game have that jacked up of a shot? And why the hell haven't they already fixed it? This isn't like, "Hey, you need a shot guru like Chip Engelland to clean the finer points of this up." This is like, "Hey, on day 1 of YMCA ball, this is how you hold a basketball when you shoot it."

[slick'81]

Watch him start draining threes this year:rollin

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Watch him start draining threes this year:rollin

The only thing he's draining is his trade value.

[objective]

Not looking forward to his cap killing extension

[RC_Drunkford]

If he doesn't rework his shot from the ground up he'll never be a decent enough shooter. The thing already starts wrong from the beginning.

[spurraider21]

at least he made the shot

1806388615947170043
the hitch is all over. even his feet/legs stop moving for a bit. so unnatural looking

[Uriel]

Spurs new shooting coach doing work. Where is Chip?

1808194924904357899
I do have to say though, I’m really quite impressed that the Spurs would send their shooting coaches to Poland over the summer just so they can make sure Jeremy gets his reps. That’s an incredible amount of dedication.

[TD 21]

Not looking forward to his cap killing extension

You can already see 4/$80M coming and the ensuring spin job from the apologists/homers about how he's still young, it's not much more than the MLE in the new CBA and at worst it'll be valuable salary matching fodder . . . sounds nice, except for the fact that he's a replacement player.

[timvp]

https://i.imgur.com/OCTgxMI.png

After slowing down the video, there are actually some promising signs. Sochan finally isn't using his left thumb -- that's been his main issue his whole career. It's a one-handed shot now ... and his right hand isn't as cocked to the side and it's over his elbow.

Pretty big improvements at his release point ... but that hitch obviously needs ironing out.

[Mal]

You can easily add speed to shooting motion, once whole movement is set.

[Obstructed_View]

https://i.imgur.com/OCTgxMI.png

After slowing down the video, there are actually some promising signs. Sochan finally isn't using his left thumb -- that's been his main issue his whole career. It's a one-handed shot now ... and his right hand isn't as cocked to the side and it's over his elbow.

Pretty big improvements at his release point ... but that hitch obviously needs ironing out.
I'm a huge Jeremy apologist. But that hitch scares the hell out of me. :lol

[Wilt Chamberlain]

you can't really evaluate a prospect in year 2, especially when he got played out of position for half a season. Year 3 is where you need to see a jump, so this year is crucial for Sochan, Branham and Wesley. They have to show major improvement.

You can always evaluate. You just do not pretend that their skill level is static or only look at poor performances.

I did not watch a whole lot of Spurs games but even I noticed his multiple double doubles and excellent individual switching defense.

Guys who can guard 1-4 are worth a lot in the modern NBA.

[tonight...you]

I'm a huge Jeremy apologist. But that hitch scares the hell out of me. :lol
True, but it could be:

Fixing the mechanics,
Fixing the mechanics,
Fixing the mechanics,
Fixing the mechanics...

Now let's put it together,
put it together,
put it together,
put it together,
put it together...


That's my hope and I'm not that hopeful.

[LeBowen]

I'm also a Jeremy fan and I'm not giving up on him (unless Ainge thinks his value is a lottery FRP :rollin), but there are a lot of improvement areas he needs to make if he's going to be a contributor on a serious playoff team.

I don't think his shot will ever be good. He might develop it to a level where he's not treated like Ben Simmons, but I don't think anyone will ever aggressively close him down.
What concerns me even more is his complete lack of inside game.

Not counting dunks, he shot 52% inside the restricted area as a 6'8 forward, ffs.
I don't even want to know his percentage on contested layups.

There's a difference between bad shooters and bad offensive players.
Right now Jeremy is a bad offensive player.

I'm not holding Pop's point guard experiment against him, but his playmaking if we talk forwards is also nothing special.

With Castle being drafted, I can't see two of them play together with their current shooting ability.
Jeremy had his two years, Castle should be the starter this season. I think Jeremy will have a bit of a resurgence if he becomes the energy guy off the bench.

I just don't see his value if he doesn't make big improvements. Forget the hair, the act and the tattoos, if he had basic looks, noone would rate him.
Mamu was arguably more useful with Wemby after Jeremy got shut down.

[ambchang]

That is one unnatural looking shot. Still better than kidd gilchrist. I’m a huge fan of his but I have to say quite disappointed that’s what transpires with almost three months of practice.

[Mal]

In 17h Sochan plays with Poland against Bahamas with Buddy Hield or Ayton. Poland has little offensive skill to match Bahamas, so we expect Sochan to contribute a lot on both end.

[Spurs Homer]

I dont know what spurs players do in shooting drills...but...
why the fuck is he shooting 3's if his shot is broken?

All he is doing is wasting his time. If you have not smoothed out your shot and you are at the 3 pt line - it is just nonsensical.

Shooting coach should have him near the basket as close as possible.

Then make him jump as high as he can and at the very top of his jump the millisecond before he starts coming back down is when his shot should be released. Not a moment before.

3 foot jump shot - a million times - over and over.

When he learns how to shoot accurately from 3 feet jumping as high as he can before releasing the ball - then you move back to

4ft from the basket.

5ft
6ft


etc

[KobesAchilles]

I dont know what spurs players do in shooting drills...but...
why the fuck is he shooting 3's if his shot is broken?

All he is doing is wasting his time. If you have not smoothed out your shot and you are at the 3 pt line - it is just nonsensical.

Shooting coach should have him near the basket as close as possible.

Then make him jump as high as he can and at the very top of his jump the millisecond before he starts coming back down is when his shot should be released. Not a moment before.

3 foot jump shot - a million times - over and over.

When he learns how to shoot accurately from 3 feet jumping as high as he can before releasing the ball - then you move back to

4ft from the basket.

5ft
6ft


etc
It’s what every great shooter has said when learning how to shoot. But you know we have our own “expert” shooting coach who nobody knows is any good

[Pauleta14]

I dont know what spurs players do in shooting drills...but...
why the fuck is he shooting 3's if his shot is broken?

All he is doing is wasting his time. If you have not smoothed out your shot and you are at the 3 pt line - it is just nonsensical.

Shooting coach should have him near the basket as close as possible.

Then make him jump as high as he can and at the very top of his jump the millisecond before he starts coming back down is when his shot should be released. Not a moment before.

3 foot jump shot - a million times - over and over.

When he learns how to shoot accurately from 3 feet jumping as high as he can before releasing the ball - then you move back to

4ft from the basket.

5ft
6ft


etc

I agree

Right now he just seems to get comfortable at having a terrible motion

[The Truth #6]

Is there a possibility this is him slowing down his shot to practice the various stages of his jump shot? I'm going to say NO but that's my only glimmer of hope. Yikes.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/KoszKadra/status/1808241291399942435

[ismael-robert]

Drama queens, nothing matters except for '25 sochan

[Pauleta14]

Is there a possibility this is him slowing down his shot to practice the various stages of his jump shot? I'm going to say NO but that's my only glimmer of hope. Yikes.

I think it's because he's used/comfortable to have his shooting motion starting in front of his eyes rather than above his head.

He needs to just jump and release from the right moment again and again, not worrying about making the shot or not

What he is doing rn seems useless

[ambchang]

I dont know what spurs players do in shooting drills...but...
why the fuck is he shooting 3's if his shot is broken?

All he is doing is wasting his time. If you have not smoothed out your shot and you are at the 3 pt line - it is just nonsensical.

Shooting coach should have him near the basket as close as possible.

Then make him jump as high as he can and at the very top of his jump the millisecond before he starts coming back down is when his shot should be released. Not a moment before.

3 foot jump shot - a million times - over and over.

When he learns how to shoot accurately from 3 feet jumping as high as he can before releasing the ball - then you move back to

4ft from the basket.

5ft
6ft


etc


It’s what every great shooter has said when learning how to shoot. But you know we have our own “expert” shooting coach who nobody knows is any good


I agree

Right now he just seems to get comfortable at having a terrible motion

Agreed. I’m highly confident these three second clips fully represents their entire workout routine.

[BacktoBasics]

I'm a huge Jeremy apologist. But that hitch scares the hell out of me. :lol

I’m no shooting coach but it looks deliberate. There’s an old drill where you break your jumper in half. Base motion then release. You build on that foundation then bind it to the release.

Early parts of that drill are a slow deliberate set then pair that to your release. It’s hitch like until you get your core dialed in. Then you slowly smooth that out as the two parts come together.

I’m not the expert but I’ve seen something similar before. Who knows.

Even 2k breaks down jumpers in that regard if you edit players.

[offset formation]

I dont know what spurs players do in shooting drills...but...
why the fuck is he shooting 3's if his shot is broken?

All he is doing is wasting his time. If you have not smoothed out your shot and you are at the 3 pt line - it is just nonsensical.

Shooting coach should have him near the basket as close as possible.

Then make him jump as high as he can and at the very top of his jump the millisecond before he starts coming back down is when his shot should be released. Not a moment before.

3 foot jump shot - a million times - over and over.

When he learns how to shoot accurately from 3 feet jumping as high as he can before releasing the ball - then you move back to

4ft from the basket.

5ft
6ft


etc

Disagree on the jump part but agree on the whole. He should just do squat and rise and release without hesitation or hitch. Then once mastered at each level move back until youre able to do so without hitching at the 3pt line fully around the arc

[rascal]

Sochan is awkward

How can he be playing basketball for 10 years and go to shooting the ball one handed as an upgrade?

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pszKAevf8NE

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dOzlgIcO6s

[playblair]

I dont know what spurs players do in shooting drills...but...
why the fuck is he shooting 3's if his shot is broken?

All he is doing is wasting his time. If you have not smoothed out your shot and you are at the 3 pt line - it is just nonsensical.

Shooting coach should have him near the basket as close as possible.

Then make him jump as high as he can and at the very top of his jump the millisecond before he starts coming back down is when his shot should be released. Not a moment before.

3 foot jump shot - a million times - over and over.

When he learns how to shoot accurately from 3 feet jumping as high as he can before releasing the ball - then you move back to

4ft from the basket.

5ft
6ft


etc


Disagree on the jump part but agree on the whole. He should just do squat and rise and release without hesitation or hitch. Then once mastered at each level move back until youre able to do so without hitching at the 3pt line fully around the arc

.........lamarcus aldrige helped a texas player last season who was a worse 3 point shooter than sochan improve his 3 point shooting significantly in one offseason by using the jumping method technique spurs homer mentioned...........

[KobesAchilles]

Agreed. I’m highly confident these three second clips fully represents their entire workout routine.
I’m highly confident that his form is wrong and his jumper is ugly af. Idc if that’s not the whole practice. This shot should’ve been fixed at the 4 feet mark and by the time he got to the 3 point line it should be way better than it is

[ambchang]

I’m highly confident that his form is wrong and his jumper is ugly af. Idc if that’s not the whole practice. This shot should’ve been fixed at the 4 feet mark and by the time he got to the 3 point line it should be way better than it is
And we all know he isn’t doing it because the clips don’t show it.

[Wilt Chamberlain]

I’m highly confident that his form is wrong and his jumper is ugly af. Idc if that’s not the whole practice. This shot should’ve been fixed at the 4 feet mark and by the time he got to the 3 point line it should be way better than it is

He is obviously working on the gather to go into his shooting motion.

In the video, each one of his catches is the same but his elbow and arm movement is different to get to the same arm angle and elbow placement to then shoot the ball.

The next step is finding the gather that works best for him and rep the shit out of the gather and shoot.

[offset formation]

.........lamarcus aldrige helped a texas player last season who was a worse 3 point shooter than sochan improve his 3 point shooting significantly in one offseason by using the jumping method technique spurs homer mentioned...........

Reason I say I'd hesitate to use that method is that in addition to just focusing on consistent release without a hitch is that by adding the jump (at least at first) youre adding a timing component that just complicates the effort to fix a hitch and release issue first and foremost.

[Pauleta14]

Reason I say I'd hesitate to use that method is that in addition to just focusing on consistent release without a hitch is that by adding the jump (at least at first) youre adding a timing component that just complicates the effort to fix a hitch and release issue first and foremost.

Focusing on the position of your feet/the jump takes away some overthinking on the shot for some ppl

It helped me a lot, basically once in the air you have no choice but act and at the last moment u focus on the touch

[tim_duncan_fan]

So, there is literally only one Chip Engelland?

Surely there is someone we can get to assist with shot development. And obvs this isn't in the context of NBA ball, but he should be carrying over something his NBA coaches should have shown him. WTF is this? Cmon Patfo. Put an actual coaching organism together, for Pete's sake.

[Raven]

i think he's in the middle of a full breakout, as a player, but that shot geez.. come on J, get it fixed.

[heyheymymy]

In 17h Sochan plays with Poland against Bahamas with Buddy Hield or Ayton. Poland has little offensive skill to match Bahamas, so we expect Sochan to contribute a lot on both end.

I see Valdez Edgecombe Jr is playing for the Bahamas. Top 5-10 prospect for the 2025 for now. Poured in 20pts against Slovenia. Lol Luka has an uphill battle to qualify for Paris. Yikes of a summer for Luka so far.

D Saric with a triple double. Wonder if that helps his UFA status

[Vienna]

D Saric with a triple double. Wonder if that helps his UFA status

is Saric an option? I mean, yes, the player type Saric represents might help. he played for 2.7 million last season. if he didn't ask for significantly more money, should the Spurs call him?

[Mr. Body]

Really though it looks like he's concentrating on his elbow there, getting the shot rebuilt. The hitch it worrying, but I doubt that's what is going on here. Trying to take the sideways spin out of the shot.

[heyheymymy]

is Saric an option? I mean, yes, the player type Saric represents might help. he played for 2.7 million last season. if he didn't ask for significantly more money, should the Spurs call him?

I was going to say, could see Pop liking the idea of this shooting big. I wouldn't expect much but I guess he wasn't completely terrible last season with GSW. As a deep bench bigs-depth it might be a consolation prize to striking out on Lauri. Plus Saric has chemistry with CP3.

Could see SA being a resurgence for him and he kinda reminds me of a very poor mans Spurs era Bobo with the nifty passes and backing down defenders in the post but even more sluggish and very one dimensional non cerebral play whereas Bobo was brilliant with intangibles.

I see a lot of overlap with Mamu and we already have one theoretical 6'10 shooter in Zollins and then of course Saric isn't very good but that Paris qualifying game tape from this week looks solid (19pts 10reb 10ast).


https://youtu.be/oLHve2Tr-10


https://youtu.be/QNB5Fmp5_Uk

[playbonner15]

is Saric an option? I mean, yes, the player type Saric represents might help. he played for 2.7 million last season. if he didn't ask for significantly more money, should the Spurs call him?

Nah poor defense. Him plus Branhams gonna be a disaster

[itzsoweezee]

1806384069669736582

What a fugly shot. He’s got to be trolling to tank his trade value.

[Obstructed_View]

How do we watch the game today? It starts in about 40 minutes.

[heyheymymy]

How do we watch the game today? It starts in about 40 minutes.

Is this it?:


https://youtu.be/Jiqpt9XBvxg

[Pauleta14]

How do we watch the game today? It starts in about 40 minutes.

NBA APP

[playblair]

Reason I say I'd hesitate to use that method is that in addition to just focusing on consistent release without a hitch is that by adding the jump (at least at first) youre adding a timing component that just complicates the effort to fix a hitch and release issue first and foremost.
u were right i looked up the details........lamarcus aldridge had the player do it the way u stated without the jumping..........

[playblair]

So, there is literally only one Chip Engelland?

Surely there is someone we can get to assist with shot development. And obvs this isn't in the context of NBA ball, but he should be carrying over something his NBA coaches should have shown him. WTF is this? Cmon Patfo. Put an actual coaching organism together, for Pete's sake.
lethal shooter is available.........he is the reason nuggets players shot well in championship season.......

[exstatic]

So, there is literally only one Chip Engelland?

Surely there is someone we can get to assist with shot development. And obvs this isn't in the context of NBA ball, but he should be carrying over something his NBA coaches should have shown him. WTF is this? Cmon Patfo. Put an actual coaching organism together, for Pete's sake.

There were a lot of assistants over the decades, but only Tex Winter came to work with Phil Jackson, and changed the landscape of the league, so yeah, maybe there is only one Chip Engelland.

[ace3g]

Live stats for Poland vs Bahamas

Bahamas vs Poland - Group Phase - FIBA Olympic Qualifying Tournament 2024 Valencia, Spain | FIBA.basketball (https://www.fiba.basketball/en/events/fiba-olympic-qualifying-tournament-2024-valencia-spain/games/121080-BAH-POL#overview)

[Spurs Homer]

Reason I say I'd hesitate to use that method is that in addition to just focusing on consistent release without a hitch is that by adding the jump (at least at first) youre adding a timing component that just complicates the effort to fix a hitch and release issue first and foremost.

It is called a "jump shot."

You start from right under the basket on the right side of the rim...
jump as high as you can and at the absolute height of your jump you release the ball using only your wrist - not your arm/elbow/body/
just flick your wrist.

Do this a million times and then move back one foot and repeat.
Then go to the left side of rim and use your left hand...rinse/repeat.

THIS is what you do on the playground when you are 5 years old. Why there are NBA players like Sochan and Castle who apparently never did this - is absolutely baffling to me.

Only when you can properly shoot a 1 foot jump shot and automatically do this in your sleep without missing - do you actually move farther from the basket.

[NASpurs]

1806384069669736582

Dude is being trained by a shot put coach. Wouldn't put it past the Spurs development team.

[exstatic]

It is called a "jump shot."

You start from right under the basket on the right side of the rim...
jump as high as you can and at the absolute height of your jump you release the ball using only your wrist - not your arm/elbow/body/
just flick your wrist.

Do this a million times and then move back one foot and repeat.
Then go to the left side of rim and use your left hand...rinse/repeat.

THIS is what you do on the playground when you are 5 years old. Why there are NBA players like Sochan and Castle who apparently never did this - is absolutely baffling to me.

Only when you can properly shoot a 1 foot jump shot and automatically do this in your sleep without missing - do you actually move farther from the basket.

I get your idea, but no one does that at 5 years, or any age, on the playground.

[Spurs Homer]

I get your idea, but no one does that at 5 years, or any age, on the playground.

That is exactly what i did, all my friends did, all my teammates did, everyone on the playground or in their backyard did.

Im old as poop though - so that was another era.

I annoyed the shit out of my dad who worked nights and had to learn to sleep during the day with a basketball bouncing a billion times and the basket making that clanking noise a billion times lol...

Then we also did the same thing with layups...right side...a billion times...
left side/left hand a billion times...

Old school basketball drills and i still sucked in hs lol

[Obstructed_View]

NBA APP

I have it. Nothing shows up. Found a pirate feed.

[Obstructed_View]

I get your idea, but no one does that at 5 years, or any age, on the playground.
That's exactly how I got good at shooting.

[offset formation]

It is called a "jump shot."

You start from right under the basket on the right side of the rim...
jump as high as you can and at the absolute height of your jump you release the ball using only your wrist - not your arm/elbow/body/
just flick your wrist.

Do this a million times and then move back one foot and repeat.
Then go to the left side of rim and use your left hand...rinse/repeat.

THIS is what you do on the playground when you are 5 years old. Why there are NBA players like Sochan and Castle who apparently never did this - is absolutely baffling to me.

Only when you can properly shoot a 1 foot jump shot and automatically do this in your sleep without missing - do you actually move farther from the basket.

Two problems with this method.

1. Jumping like that adds fatigue into the equation thereby limiting repeatability and lessening the amount of reps.

2. In Sochan's case, he has a hitch and release problem. Not a timing problem. He's got to correct his hitch and release problem first.

Easiest way to do that is to do repititions of bending his knees and seamlessly rising and releasing his shot in a fluid motion over and over again until muscle memory takes over. You can't do that jumping up and down like a kangaroo while also working on your release. It goes against physical training in so many ways by engaging multiple separate muscle groups that don't pertain to the shot aberation.

Edit: BTW, the proof he doesn't need help with his jump shot is when he's in the paint and rises up to take a shot he doesn't hitch. Its his set shot that is problematic. Thus adding the jumps won't correct the flaw.

[slick'81]

Obviously his brain is telling the ball to go in

[Raven]

poland is getting destroyed so far.. unsurprising, but still

[offset formation]

That's exactly how I got good at shooting.

Did you have a hitch? Or a smooth release already and then worked on the timing once the release was in place? Sochan has to start from scratch with his release without adding extra components to it.

[Obstructed_View]

Poland fucking sucks.

[ace3g]

Bahamas with Ayton, Eric Gordon, and Buddy Hield; going to be tough for Poland to win.

[Obstructed_View]

Did you have a hitch? Or a smooth release already and then worked on the timing once the release was in place? Sochan has to start from scratch with his release without adding extra components to it.
Which is exactly why you start 2 feet from the basket and shoot set shots a thousand times around the basket until you can hit the same spot on the net every time. Then you take a step back and do it. Your feet don't leave the ground until you are about ten or 15 feet out. I spent months doing that.

[Obstructed_View]

Bahamas with Ayton, Eric Gordon, and Buddy Hield; going to be tough for Poland to win.

Poland can't do anything to generate easy shots. They just have to get hot. They lose this game eight out of ten times.

[offset formation]

Which is exactly why you start 2 feet from the basket and shoot set shots a thousand times around the basket until you can hit the same spot on the net every time. Then you take a step back and do it. Your feet don't leave the ground until you are about ten or 15 feet out. I spent months doing that.

That not what has been suggested on other posts. You're basically agreeing with me that leaving the ground is unnecessary close in. You don't need to add it at all until maybe 3 pt distance but even then you dont have to jump. Nobody takes jump shot free throws at 15 feet. You work on the release first and only.

[Obstructed_View]

Jeremy playing by the old FIBA rules.

[Obstructed_View]

That not what has been suggested on other posts. You're basically agreeing with me that leaving the ground is unnecessary close in. You don't need to add it at all until maybe 3 pt distance but even then you dont have to jump. Nobody takes jump shot free throws at 15 feet. You work on the release first and only.

Yeah, you're right. Sorry. I saw the standing close and moving back part. I did that, and I used my legs as part of the shooting motion, but I only jump to generate more distance. I had the form and mechanics down before I started leaving the ground. When I practiced low post moves I would jump as high as possible for obvious reasons.

[Mal]

Ayton sucks, omg

[Obstructed_View]

God they're stupid. Jeremy goes in, breaks down the defenders and kicks it out, only for the guy to step back and reset instead of shooting.

[Spurs Homer]

Two problems with this method.

1. Jumping like that adds fatigue into the equation thereby limiting repeatability and lessening the amount of reps.

2. In Sochan's case, he has a hitch and release problem. Not a timing problem. He's got to correct his hitch and release problem first.

Easiest way to do that is to do repititions of bending his knees and seamlessly rising and releasing his shot in a fluid motion over and over again until muscle memory takes over. You can't do that jumping up and down like a kangaroo while also working on your release. It goes against physical training in so many ways by engaging multiple separate muscle groups that don't pertain to the shot aberation.

Edit: BTW, the proof he doesn't need help with his jump shot is when he's in the paint and rises up to take a shot he doesn't hitch. Its his set shot that is problematic. Thus adding the jumps won't correct the flaw.

Which is why I stated that this is what should be done on the playground growing up. I am continually baffled to see players rise to the NBA level having never learned the basics of a textbook jumpshot.

This is what summer/off season should be used for. it makes zero sense to be practicing a 25 foot shot over and over with broken mechanics.

You fix the broken mechanics and start nearest to the basket until you perfect your form. Only after perfecting it from close to the rim - do you venture farther. This is the correct way. If sochan allegedly uses good form near the basket then he is derelict in not using the correct form as he ventures farther from the basket. Discipline is called for.

[ace3g]

Anyone find a stream of this game ?

[Mal]

Sochan with Kyle Andersonesque three but it was nothing but net

[Raven]

made a great looking triple!

[Raven]

unfortunately he's not playing assertively or as a ballhandler. Just the usual garbage off the ball bs for now.

[exstatic]

That's exactly how I got good at shooting.

On the playground? Or in a gym?

[Obstructed_View]

Anyone find a stream of this game ?

Is this it?:


https://youtu.be/Jiqpt9XBvxg

[Obstructed_View]

On the playground? Or in a gym?
When I lived in SA, I put up a basketball goal in the back lot where I worked. I painted the key and the three point line and that's where I did it. Neither park nor gym. :lol

[exstatic]

Ayton sucks, omg

He’s great at collecting checks,though. I’d love to be a fly on the wall of his next contract negotiations when he’s offered like $65/4years.

[exstatic]

When I lived in SA, I put up a basketball goal in the back lot where I worked. I painted the key and the three point line and that's where I did it. Neither park nor gym. :lol

I’m not questioning the methodology, just the location. I don’t think anyone does that shit on the blacktop. You’d get run off by ballers.

[Obstructed_View]

Wouldn't be an Eric Gordon game I'd he weren't getting a T for bitching. :lol

[ace3g]

I was looking for video of the game, this is just a virtual boxscore.

[Pauleta14]

I have it. Nothing shows up. Found a pirate feed.

https://www.nba.com/watch/event/france-vs-turkey

[Obstructed_View]

I’m not questioning the methodology, just the location. I don’t think anyone does that shit on the blacktop. You’d get run off by ballers.
Not sure what that means. Everyone needs to practice. I've done drills with my kids at the gym and at the playground.

But maybe that's the reason so many of these kids come to the NBA with fucked up jumpers, because they were running people off instead of learning fundamentals.