Spurs Select F Jeremy Sochan with the 9th Pick in the 2022 NBA Draft

[SpursBills]

Sochan in his last 10 since Tre Jones has been starting at PG:

13/6/4/1/1 on 46/38/87 shooting splits. I'd say last 10 he's been a league-average defender at least. He'll still get cooked a fair amount, but his awareness and anticipation have been improving. He's still got a ton of work to do, but he's 2 years younger than guys like Jalen Williams and Jalen Johnson and only 8 months older than Wemby. Guys here who were calling for him to get salary dumped or to not pick up his option were being way to hard on him early on.

[kxs783kms]

Sochan in his last 10 since Tre Jones has been starting at PG:

13/6/4/1/1 on 46/38/87 shooting splits. I'd say last 10 he's been a league-average defender at least. He'll still get cooked a fair amount, but his awareness and anticipation have been improving. He's still got a ton of work to do, but he's 2 years younger than guys like Jalen Williams and Jalen Johnson and only 8 months older than Wemby. Guys here who were calling for him to get salary dumped or to not pick up his option were being way to hard on him early on.

This forum cries about everything and everybody who isn't Wemby. They want us to dump everybody else and bring in all 20+ pt All-Stars and when they have a bad game or two, they're going to cry about them too. They don't want us to spend big on any proven, top free agents but think every draft pick coming in will be the saving grace to the franchise. And then when they have a bad game, it's rinse and repeat.

First Sochan, then Pop. Then Trae and sometimes Vassell. Now Branham is the flavor of the month lol

[R. DeMurre]

I'm really interested how he'd look when he plays next to a 3-and-D SF. Our defense could be really good if we get one in the offseason.

Just a rumor so far, but Herb Jones would be an interesting option. He's a great defender, signed for the next three years, and at 25 still quietly improving as an all around player.
https://clutchpoints.com/nba-rumors-pelicans-open-moving-herb-jones-trade-deadline

[CGD]

I hated the experiment but his court vision and positioning as the team sets up in the half court is significantly improved from last season. I don’t have the time but I’d bet money if you broke down tape there’s a direct line in that development and the experiment.

Open court is still a bit sloppy but you can almost see what he’s seeing. Sochan is a good piece if they can put together a serviceable team in the offseason. This is why you don’t panic and fire sale.

Exactly. He didn’t “move back to his original position” per se, bc last year year he was pretty much an energy putbacks guy. Glad he’s not the pg anymore, but the “experiment” def helped his growth.

[RC_Drunkford]

This forum cries about everything and everybody who isn't Wemby. They want us to dump everybody else and bring in all 20+ pt All-Stars and when they have a bad game or two, they're going to cry about them too. They don't want us to spend big on any proven, top free agents but think every draft pick coming in will be the saving grace to the franchise. And then when they have a bad game, it's rinse and repeat.

First Sochan, then Pop. Then Trae and sometimes Vassell. Now Branham is the flavor of the month lol

but not Trae Young, LeBron James, KD, Dejounte Murray, Dame Lillard and 95% of the other All-Stars because they are all cancers

[RC_Drunkford]

Just a rumor so far, but Herb Jones would be an interesting option. He's a great defender, signed for the next three years, and at 25 still quietly improving as an all around player.
https://clutchpoints.com/nba-rumors-pelicans-open-moving-herb-jones-trade-deadline

he'd be a nice pick up, but I doubt it. I got my eyes on Royce O'Neal who will hit free agency

[CGD]

Just a rumor so far, but Herb Jones would be an interesting option. He's a great defender, signed for the next three years, and at 25 still quietly improving as an all around player.
https://clutchpoints.com/nba-rumors-pelicans-open-moving-herb-jones-trade-deadline

Could you imagine the shooting between Sochan and Herb, next to Wemby? Ouch. But the defensive upside is tantalizing.

[duncan2150]

"sochan can't do nothing, he's bad on everythinG".... Some posters are really immature lol

[exstatic]

B-but he’s a PF not a PG. People acting like Pop was trying to make him a PG instead of a versatile big who can rim-run, pass, and be that glue guy out there.

He’s playing very much like a PG since he’s been “moved” back to PF.

[Ignazzz]

he'd be a nice pick up, but I doubt it. I got my eyes on Royce O'Neal who will hit free agency
I Like �� player but Please look at his stats 23/24 season.

[DAF86]

He’s playing very much like a PG since he’s been “moved” back to PF.

There's a very big difference between being a secondary playmaker and the full-time PG. Sochan was always a decent playmaker from the PF spot, he can't never be the PG of a team, though. I don't know what the old man and timvp were thinking when they came up with that idea, tbh.

[MannyIsGod]

There's a very big difference between being a secondary playmaker and the full-time PG. Sochan was always a decent playmaker from the PF spot, he can't never be the PG of a team, though. I don't know what the old man and timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) were thinking when they came up with that idea, tbh.

I know I just wanted to get as much talent into the starting lineup. You're right now, its pretty clear now that while he has some playmaking skills from the PF position the idea that he will ever be a PG is laughable.

[R. DeMurre]

Could you imagine the shooting between Sochan and Herb, next to Wemby? Ouch. But the defensive upside is tantalizing.


Herb is shooting 37.8% from three this year, with a 60.7 TS%. I don't think he's a bad shooter. At worst he's average, but I think he's trending towards better-than-average.

Definitely one of my favorite players to watch.

[exstatic]

There's a very big difference between being a secondary playmaker and the full-time PG. Sochan was always a decent playmaker from the PF spot, he can't never be the PG of a team, though. I don't know what the old man and timvp were thinking when they came up with that idea, tbh.

Short memories. Sochan played PG last year when Tre sat for rest. It wasn’t really an experiment so much as an expansion of an existing role.

[DAF86]

Short memories. Sochan played PG last year when Tre sat for rest. It wasn’t really an experiment so much as an expansion of an existing role.

I took that as a clear tanking strategy. I don't think Pop started this season with the idea of tanking again.

[R. DeMurre]

There's a very big difference between being a secondary playmaker and the full-time PG. Sochan was always a decent playmaker from the PF spot, he can't never be the PG of a team, though. I don't know what the old man and timvp (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=8) were thinking when they came up with that idea, tbh.


True, but who was the full time PG of the 72 win Bulls? Pippen often brought the ball up court as a point forward, Jordan brought the ball up a bunch, and so did Ron Harper. They didn't really have a full time traditional PG at all. I'm not opposed to a good traditional full time PG, but I don't think it's an absolute necessity.

[Kevin]

Sochan is settling in as a mediocre starter. Yeah the assist numbers are nice but the rebounding and non existent shot blocking are very worrisome. Still no semblance of a reliable jumper either. His ceiling really dropped over the course of this season.

Need to see more of Barlow. Barlow is the better rebounder and shooter and according to advanced stats a better defender than Sochan but the sample size is small.

[exstatic]

I took that as a clear tanking strategy. I don't think Pop started this season with the idea of tanking again.

Did you think they weren’t tanking last year when they started 5-2?

They want a star to go with Wemby, and they want the Toronto pick, and can cock block TOR from tanking BY tanking themselves. Those are two good reasons to tank from the get go, the only good way to do it.

[DAF86]

Did you think they weren’t tanking last year when they started 5-2?

They want a star to go with Wemby, and they want the Toronto pick, and can cock block TOR from tanking BY tanking themselves. Those are two good reasons to tank from the get go, the only good way to do it.

Pop is on record saying they were going for wins this season. I know a coach is suppossed to say that, but you could tell he meant it. Also, it made no sense to tank for this weak ass draft class. Now we have no other option, but Pop didn't start the season planning to tank.

[exstatic]

Pop is on record saying they were going for wins this season. I know a coach is suppossed to say that, but you could tell he meant it. Also, it made no sense to tank for this weak ass draft class. Now we have no other option, but Pop didn't start the season planning to tank.

Where’s that quote?

[AusSpur]

Where’s that quote?

Popovich continued: "Of course, we add a player with Victor's capabilities, and your prospects look a lot better. But this year, with development, I think one of the important factors to enhance that development is winning. So winning is as important this year as learning last year. So, they've got to continue to learn. But, adding more wins, I think, is appropriate, mandatory and helpful."

https://www.sacurrent.com/arts/san-antonio-spurs-fans-should-expect-wins-this-season-popovich-says-32772732

[Seventyniner]

I took that as a clear tanking strategy. I don't think Pop started this season with the idea of tanking again.

If it was a sign of tanking the first time, why wasn't it a sign of tanking the second time?

[DAF86]

If it was a sign of tanking the first time, why wasn't it a sign of tanking the second time?

If Pop started the season wanting to tank, that's a mistake, imho. Also, if he really wanted to tank, why not keep playing Sochan at PG? That surelly seemed to be doing the trick, tbh. :lol

[Raven]

He’s playing very much like a PG since he’s been “moved” back to PF.
word

[Pauleta14]

Popovich continued: "Of course, we add a player with Victor's capabilities, and your prospects look a lot better. But this year, with development, I think one of the important factors to enhance that development is winning. So winning is as important this year as learning last year. So, they've got to continue to learn. But, adding more wins, I think, is appropriate, mandatory and helpful."

https://www.sacurrent.com/arts/san-antonio-spurs-fans-should-expect-wins-this-season-popovich-says-32772732




they always go mute when we show them the quote… :lol

[DAF86]

Where’s that quote?

Above.

[exstatic]

Popovich continued: "Of course, we add a player with Victor's capabilities, and your prospects look a lot better. But this year, with development, I think one of the important factors to enhance that development is winning. So winning is as important this year as learning last year. So, they've got to continue to learn. But, adding more wins, I think, is appropriate, mandatory and helpful."

https://www.sacurrent.com/arts/san-antonio-spurs-fans-should-expect-wins-this-season-popovich-says-32772732



Thanks.

I still think it was smoke, but YMMV. I mean, if they were about winning more games, wouldn’t last summer’s transaction list have been different? They didn’t intentionally go and get even one player to make the team better. Cedi is OK, but Cleveland paid us to take him, and he was the best of the lot, and the only one not waived.

[K...]

pop said we have to win (the lottery) more than last year (toronto pick, trades for more picks?), so winning (the lottery) was more important than learning (to tank) last year,

you just need to understand pop speak and the meaning is clear

[FutureMan]

All those preseason interviews made it very clear they were trying to win initially. On paper a starting 5 of Sochan, Vassell, Johnson, Wemby, & Collins should have worked or at least been slightly successful. And it was… for about six and a half games. But as time passed it became obvious that Collins isn’t reliable, Sochan shouldn’t be the point guard, Vassell probably isn’t a #2 option on a playoff team, Johnson had regressed, and Wemby should be at center.

[scott]

Thanks.

I still think it was smoke, but YMMV. I mean, if they were about winning more games, wouldn’t last summer’s transaction list have been different? They didn’t intentionally go and get even one player to make the team better. Cedi is OK, but Cleveland paid us to take him, and he was the best of the lot, and the only one not waived.

I can think of one.

[z0sa]

Sochan has looked awesome. I'll be ready, willing and GLAD to eat crow if he keeps this type of play up. He's been strong defensively, a good playmaker, a big shotmaker. I've got no complaints in the last 2 W's for the 20 year old.

That said, people acting like his time at PG -- and not TRE JONES STARTING AT PG -- was some sort of catalyst would be blind at this point in the young man's career. Tre Jones has taken the pressure off of EVERYONE, and Sochan is (or should be) probably 2nd or even 1st on that list after Wemby in terms of gratitude.

[exstatic]

I can think of one.

Obvsly

[RC_Drunkford]

Where’s that quote?

you're really the pinnacle of idiocy. Always replying like you know shit, but never reading anything and just going with your own idiotic narrative of whatever you made up in your head :lol

[exstatic]

you're really the pinnacle of idiocy. Always replying like you know shit, but never reading anything and just going with your own idiotic narrative of whatever you made up in your head :lol

Dude, shut the fuck up. I read, thanked, and acknowledged the quote.

[The Truth #6]

Sochan has looked awesome. I'll be ready, willing and GLAD to eat crow if he keeps this type of play up. He's been strong defensively, a good playmaker, a big shotmaker. I've got no complaints in the last 2 W's for the 20 year old.

That said, people acting like his time at PG -- and not TRE JONES STARTING AT PG -- was some sort of catalyst would be blind at this point in the young man's career. Tre Jones has taken the pressure off of EVERYONE, and Sochan is (or should be) probably 2nd or even 1st on that list after Wemby in terms of gratitude.

I think it's both factors. But not just Tre starting.

[RC_Drunkford]

Dude, shut the fuck up. I read, thanked, and acknowledged the quote.

yeah you found out it was said half a season after the fact :lol

[Mr. Body]

You can call Sochan a PF or a PG or a backup pitcher. The issue wasn't what you called him, it was who he was matched against. Having him play against lead guards took away his strengths. His defense is much better suited around the basket, with switches and perimeter defense as needed, but the huge change is on offense against players his size. He's much faster and agile than most frontcourt players and this is where his strengths come in.

[The Truth #6]

And his ugly ass 3 point shot has been going in. 37% at 2.7 attempts per game. That is significant. FT % at 79%. Now back against front court players, I agree, he should continue to improve.

[scott]

Save for some youthful mistakes, I've been pretty pleased with Sochan the last 10 games. One exception: rebounding. I'm not sure how viable a starting 4 next to Wemby he is at only 5 reb/gm. With that said, before the last game his previous 4 statlines were 7/8/7/8 so the trends are at least going in the right direction.

[spurraider21]

Save for some youthful mistakes, I've been pretty pleased with Sochan the last 10 games. One exception: rebounding. I'm not sure how viable a starting 4 next to Wemby he is at only 5 reb/gm. With that said, before the last game his previous 4 statlines were 7/8/7/8 so the trends are at least going in the right direction.
he definitely feels like a "small-ball" 4. he's also not really a rim protector

[SpursFan86]

So…is he a reliable 3 point shooter now? I keep waiting for him to regress a bit but maybe this is just the new norm.

[spurraider21]

his shot still looks ugly but cant deny the results. with what, 43 games played... hard to just pin it on sample sizes anymore. im glad to eat crow on his shot. he's also 79% from the FT line

[JeffDuncan]

Yes, Sochan does look legit from 3pt range. He’s at .375 for the season, before his 3 of 6 tonight. Over the previous ten games, before tonight, he shot .382, fully consistent with his season average. Not a world beater, but he’s become a threat.

[Seventyniner]

Sochan doesn't need to be a three point sniper to be an effective offensive player. He just needs to be competent from three to complement the rest of his skill set. League average on threes is 36.6%, anything above 35% from your 4 man is gravy imo.

[z0sa]

his shot still looks ugly but cant deny the results. with what, 43 games played... hard to just pin it on sample sizes anymore. im glad to eat crow on his shot. he's also 79% from the FT line

No doubt it's about the ugliest shot I've seen since Shawn Marion, but who GAF if it goes in and/or no one wants to guard it because it looks like it shouldn't even touch rim.

[Sugus]

1749797711820263677

[Sugus]

Stats back the eye test up. He's been playing noticeably better and still coming into his own as a player. Improved shooting, improved defense, and (I don't know what stat could back this up, but) improved decision-making on the court.

So much for all the "bust" and "non-NBA player" talk...

[NASpurs]

Stats back the eye test up. He's been playing noticeably better and still coming into his own as a player. Improved shooting, improved defense, and (I don't know what stat could back this up, but) improved decision-making on the court.

So much for all the "bust" and "non-NBA player" talk...

Yeah it's amazing how much a coach playing a player out of position can make. Exhibit A

[scott]

I'm amused how 38.1% of Jeremy's 3PA are beautiful nothing-but-net splashes, and the others are horrible misses that make you wonder if he's ever shot a basketball before, there is rarely every in-between with him :lol (note: the airballs count the same as the ones that rim out, so as long as he keeps hitting that 38% clip, we good!)

[rascal]

Stats back the eye test up. He's been playing noticeably better and still coming into his own as a player. Improved shooting, improved defense, and (I don't know what stat could back this up, but) improved decision-making on the court.

So much for all the "bust" and "non-NBA player" talk...

He's a big reason why the team has such a bad record. He doesn't excel at anything. The only player playing well is Wemby and his minutes are monitored.

Several of the players have to be replaced or moved to the bench. There will be a turnover on the team over the next couple of years with high draft picks coming in. This core needs to be replaced and Sochan is included.

[Kevin]

He's a big reason why the team has such a bad record. He doesn't excel at anything. The only player playing well is Wemby and his minutes are monitored.

Several of the players have to be replaced or moved to the bench. There will be a turnover on the team over the next couple of years with high draft picks coming in. This core needs to be replaced and Sochan is included.

Outside of Wemby its a bunch of jack of all trade master of none type players. Except for Blake Wesley who's starting to show elite perimeter defense if noting else.

[exstatic]

Salary dump him,

—ST, two weeks ago

[HankChinaski]

Glad he is turning things around. It was difficult to watch him at the point and then he just looked lost for a while afterwards.

[Ditty]

He's a big reason why the team has such a bad record. He doesn't excel at anything. The only player playing well is Wemby and his minutes are monitored.

Several of the players have to be replaced or moved to the bench. There will be a turnover on the team over the next couple of years with high draft picks coming in. This core needs to be replaced and Sochan is included.

Shaedon Sharpe Sucks.

[cd98]

Yawn. He’s probably played around 100 NBA games. He’s not even close to scratching his potential. People make up their minds about players game to game. That’s silly. Let the young guys have 3 years to develop before we start the bust label.

[rascal]

Shaedon Sharpe Sucks.

Only with Spurstalk homers. Every player on the team is overrated in here because it's a Spur fan forum.

Go back and see what people in here thought about resigning Collins when it happened. Now they are accepting he isn't very good but couldn't see his limited athleticism before.

Primo another bust people in here were high on. Thought he was a future starter. On on on over rating every player because he is on the roster.

Had the Spurs drafted Sharpe you would be saying he will be a future all star. You are just another Homer. The forum is full of them.

The spurs lack athleticism, that's why they stink. Not even adding Wemby can save this current roster. It needs upgrades at several positions.


Portland drafted Sharpe over Sochan so they think Sharpe is better and good chance The Spurs also would have drafted Sharpe had he been on the board for them.

Sharpe has a higher ceiling and chance at putting up all star numbers in the future than Sochan.
He's been banged up this year and was scoring close to 20 a game when he was healthy.

Most NBA fans other than a Spur fan will take Sharpe over Sochan.

[KobesAchilles]

Yawn. He’s probably played around 100 NBA games. He’s not even close to scratching his potential. People make up their minds about players game to game. That’s silly. Let the young guys have 3 years to develop before we start the bust label.
I think the majority of the criticism was that he was a terrible PG. and he was. I didn’t need 3 years to see him play point. Heck I didn’t even need 3 games. The dude sucks at it. But put him in a proper role in a position to succeed and yeah he can look decent to good.

It’s amazing to me that those defending him now didn’t recognize how shitty a position Pop put him in to start the season. When that happened it was everybody protecting Pop with it’s just his experiment and treating Sochan like he was a science experiment rather than a second year player who NEEDS to be put in a position to succeed to play well. He isn’t overly talented as a player, his role on the team should’ve been very specific for his actual development instead of the shit Pop pulled on him

[Sugus]

He's a big reason why the team has such a bad record. He doesn't excel at anything. The only player playing well is Wemby and his minutes are monitored.

Several of the players have to be replaced or moved to the bench. There will be a turnover on the team over the next couple of years with high draft picks coming in. This core needs to be replaced and Sochan is included.

Wow, it's true what they say, praising Sochan rings the Rascal Alarm!

I think mostly everyone agrees the roster will see a turnover in the coming years (nothing shocking from a team who gets a #1 pick, they never tend to stay the same). But I don't think Sochan has to be a part of that turnover (though he could end up being the bench PF to a hypothetical star PF). Putting the team's record blame on him is unfair when the Spurs FO planned to tank the season out from the start (yes I've heard the Pop interview, and as always, do show me the winning moves the team made if they weren't content with tanking this season). He was placed on an openly admitted experiment, and a new position.

I'm liking his decision making, and he might take a further leap next season, as he's so young still. Dejounte could barely dribble or shoot at this point in his career, with ST endlessly piling on him, and he ended up making the ASG his fifth season. Growth isn't linear nor immediate in most cases.

[CGD]

1749797711820263677

Backed up by the eye test

[The Truth #6]

I don't see a reason to dump all our talented but limited young players. Their time together can still be helpful. We need huge talent upgrades at PG and SF. We need to move on from marginal experiments (no offense Mamu) and get rid of bad defenders (McB and likely Branham if he doesn't show progress in year 3).

The turnover will likely happen when we draft players that prove to be better than the players we have, or the supporting players take a leap.

It's going to be a gradual process while we draft players in the next three years. That's my guess knowing the team's history. If Victor puts his foot down then maybe that changes but players usually are horrible GMs and Victor doesn't seem like an idiot.

I get the argument that Brian may be just an average talent evaluator but I still think they are going through the draft.

[rascal]

Sochan is too small at 6'8" and doesn't jump well to be a strong defensive PF.

Spurs need a bigger more athletic defensive player who can intimidate shots and rebound.

[Atl Spur]

Backed up by the eye test

Dope! Facts still mean something

[hoopdreams11]

nice discussion with Gortat he discusses Sochan playing for Poland this summer

https://hoopshype.com/lists/marcin-gortat-randy-wittman-was-the-only-coach-that-was-able-to-control-john-wall/

[alex40214]

To be fair, two years ago OKC was loosing 58 games a season.
Half of their roster and rotation guys are different now.
We have our superstar now, need to find the J-Dub and Chet in the future 2 years.

[freetiago]

Standard Soshit game when it’s not a layup line vs midget front courts. Airballed 3s, missed layups and getting stuffed, missed love, bad D. I’m sure he’ll pop off again vs the next midget front court and people here will think he’s an actual NBA player LMAO

[Atl Spur]

To be fair, two years ago OKC was loosing 58 games a season.
Half of their roster and rotation guys are different now.
We have our superstar now, need to find the J-Dub and Chet in the future 2 years.

Spoken like a rational adult

[itzsoweezee]

nice discussion with Gortat he discusses Sochan playing for Poland this summer

https://hoopshype.com/lists/marcin-gortat-randy-wittman-was-the-only-coach-that-was-able-to-control-john-wall/

He’s absolutely right about shooting being the imperative for Jeremy. A power forward that can’t shoot is basically useless in today’s NBA. I hope he gets better quick, or his career is going to be coming off the bench, or worse

[DAF86]

I was in favour of drafting this guy because I thought he could become a more athletic Kyle Anderson, but Sochan doesn't seem to have the same IQ nor feel for the game that Fathead had, tbh.

[Sugus]

To be fair, two years ago OKC was loosing 58 games a season.
Half of their roster and rotation guys are different now.
We have our superstar now, need to find the J-Dub and Chet in the future 2 years.

I'm guilty of being overly negative of the OKC rebuild, and glad to be proven wrong, because it really shows 1) how quickly the landscape can change for an NBA team after getting true cornerstones, and 2) that being terrible in the past has little to no bearing on future success, even if players went through the losing grinder.

The Spurs don't have the Thunder's asset trove, but they don't need to, either. Just build slow through the draft, make improving trades, and rely on organic growth over time. Rome wasn't built in a day, no contender was either.

[poopbox]

I don't see a reason to dump all our talented but limited young players. Their time together can still be helpful. We need huge talent upgrades at PG and SF. We need to move on from marginal experiments (no offense Mamu) and get rid of bad defenders (McB and likely Branham if he doesn't show progress in year 3).

The turnover will likely happen when we draft players that prove to be better than the players we have, or the supporting players take a leap.

It's going to be a gradual process while we draft players in the next three years. That's my guess knowing the team's history. If Victor puts his foot down then maybe that changes but players usually are horrible GMs and Victor doesn't seem like an idiot.

I get the argument that Brian may be just an average talent evaluator but I still think they are going through the draft.

Can't be both. Being talented implies also not being limited.

[spurraider21]

To be fair, two years ago OKC was loosing 58 games a season.
Half of their roster and rotation guys are different now.
We have our superstar now, need to find the J-Dub and Chet in the future 2 years.
Shai was good but not great yet. he also played only 56 games in the season leading up to them landing the #2 pick. giddey was a rookie that year. Dort still couldnt shoot back then (40% this year from 3). and obviously no jalen williams yet.

they still have a lot of room for improvement which is the scary part. giddey was a nice piece for them when they needed some offensive juice, when it was just SGA as a scorer and nobody else who could really create. now not only is SGA better, but J-Dub is emerging as a really good #2 ballhandler. Chet also makes things easier for them. Dort becoming a good shooter helps. they dont really have a need for Giddey anymore, and they can get a heck of lot more athletic/dynamic there. and lord knows they have the draft capital to keep swinging.

they also still have ousmane dieng lurking there, he's just 20 years old and still has potential that was starting to flash over the summer

cason is having a nice rookie year in a limited role. theyre going to be scary man. the only real silver lining is that chet seems like the one center in the league that victor can push around, and since vic also has the length advantage, chet doesnt really have anything to fight back with on that end

[pad300]

Can't be both. Being talented implies also not being limited.

Not true. For example, Steve Kerr was a very talented shooter, but overall had limitations as a player...

[The Truth #6]

Can't be both. Being talented implies also not being limited.

Blake is a super talented POA defender but limited in a lot of other ways. That kind of thing. McB: good shooter, horrible defender. Et cetera.

[lefty]

:lol defenses still leaving him wide open for 3

[Atl Spur]

Fun fact , whose year two stats are Jeremy’s comparable 2 I mean to? Yes you got it….the Klaw. Give it time boys, it’s not minute rice.

[RC_Drunkford]

Fun fact , whose year two stats are Jeremy’s comparable 2 I mean to? Yes you got it….the Klaw. Give it time boys, it’s not minute rice.

:lmao

[Pauleta14]

Had Kawhi had as much freedom as Sochan had he'd have averaged 25pts as a rookie

Had Sochan been put in same condition as Kawhi, he'd be in the G league

[BackHome]

Umm you know when we had KY we were trying to win another ring not so much with Sochan

[KobesAchilles]

I remember when Kawhi was our starting point guard. Good times. Good times.

[Atl Spur]

Gotta keep the thing…the thing. Focus

[SpursBills]

If he plays the same way that he has since he got moved back to forward for the rest of the season, I think you can call it a successful second year campaign with noticeable improvement. Jump shot has definitely improved and he's making quicker decisions. I think next year he needs to work on speeding up his shot and continuing developing his handle to continue to progress.

15/7/4 on 47/42/86 in his last 10 is not too different from rookie year Scottie Barnes (15/7.5/3.5 on 49/30/74) at the same age which remains my favorite upside comp for him as a high motor quick big forward with a questionable jumper. He's doing this against a weak schedule right now so he probably won't get there completely, but he's still demonstrating the ability to learn and improve very quickly year over year which is encouraging for his future development.

[CGD]

If he plays the same way that he has since he got moved back to forward for the rest of the season, I think you can call it a successful second year campaign with noticeable improvement. Jump shot has definitely improved and he's making quicker decisions. I think next year he needs to work on speeding up his shot and continuing developing his handle to continue to progress.

15/7/4 on 47/42/86 in his last 10 is not too different from rookie year Scottie Barnes (15/7.5/3.5 on 49/30/74) at the same age which remains my favorite upside comp for him as a high motor quick big forward with a questionable jumper. He's doing this against a weak schedule right now so he probably won't get there completely, but he's still demonstrating the ability to learn and improve very quickly year over year which is encouraging for his future development.

Good stuff. 47/42/86 in his last 10 if pretty damn good actually.

[DAF86]

It's easy to forget this guy is younger than Chet Holmgren.

[The Truth #6]

Too bad we have to cut him outright for not being a good point guard. A shame, really.

[R. DeMurre]

Also, Kawhi was 21 in year two and Sochan is only 20.

[Mr. Body]

Too bad we have to cut him outright for not being a good point guard. A shame, really.

Yeah seriously. It's all over for this guy.

[freetiago]

Hopefully GMs are as dumb as some of the posters here and he can be attached to some FRPs as young potential to land an all star perimeter player. He struggles vs any team with size that plays defense and doesn’t let him run his assisted layup lines which is basically every serious playoff team. Even his slow ass 3 will get smacked like tonight if teams actually tried to contest it instead of following their scouting report which says ignore him he’s trash

[KobesAchilles]

I’m not saying we need to trade or cut him. But tonight he only scored 2 more points than me against the worst team in the league. That’s not acceptable.

[Raven]

at this point he needs to play 40 minutes per game.. He needs to take every minute from trey, mcdermott and cedi. Only then we may have a consistent D

[spursparker9]

Sochan is not selected to represent the Sophomores in the Rising Stars challenge.

[mudd]

Sochan is not selected to represent the Sophomores in the Rising Stars challenge.
He's got pop to thank for that..

[Kevin]

How much longer does Sochan's defensive reputation last? His DBPM this year is -1.2 same as last season. Dyson Daniels drafted the same year as Sochan has a +2.1 although he cannot not shoot at all. Wesley is at -0.1 but he was -1.8 last season so according to DBPM he's made a big jump in defense this year.

Just saying that for a guy who supposedly plays strong defense its not supported by advanced stats. Can anyone post his opponent shooting numbers?

[TrainOfThought5]

Did you think they weren’t tanking last year when they started 5-2?

They want a star to go with Wemby, and they want the Toronto pick, and can cock block TOR from tanking BY tanking themselves. Those are two good reasons to tank from the get go, the only good way to do it.

no one thought they were tanking when they were 5-2. We all knew they were tanking when they traded good vets like Richardson and Poetl that were doing too much good on the court.

[exstatic]

no one thought they were tanking when they were 5-2. We all knew they were tanking when they traded good vets like Richardson and Poetl that were doing too much good on the court.

They traded an All Star for two consecutive summers, kind of the definition of stripping your roster bare. They’ve also known about Wemby at least since he was 16, maybe longer. They probably had scouts in the gym for the famous Gobert one on one video that everyone else saw two years later.

[rankingtear]

How much longer does Sochan's defensive reputation last? His DBPM this year is -1.2 same as last season. Dyson Daniels drafted the same year as Sochan has a +2.1 although he cannot not shoot at all. Wesley is at -0.1 but he was -1.8 last season so according to DBPM he's made a big jump in defense this year.

Just saying that for a guy who supposedly plays strong defense its not supported by advanced stats. Can anyone post his opponent shooting numbers?

In Jan he is holding his matchup to 2.6 % worst than their average fg% contesting almost as much shots as our centers and still probably top 5 in matchup difficulty league wide. Advance stats on defense are still pretty much garbage.

[buttsR4rebounding]

All those preseason interviews made it very clear they were trying to win initially. On paper a starting 5 of Sochan, Vassell, Johnson, Wemby, & Collins should have worked or at least been slightly successful. And it was… for about six and a half games. But as time passed it became obvious that Collins isn’t reliable, Sochan shouldn’t be the point guard, Vassell probably isn’t a #2 option on a playoff team, Johnson had regressed, and Wemby should be at center.

But other than that it was a good plan...

[JPB]

But other than that it was a good plan...

Sometimes (most of the time), fans are wrong about FOs' decisions but for the sake of it, a whole bunch of people here saw/knew that team needed a couple vets who know how to win, and at least a vet PG. I don't know what they were thinking, and I'm pretty sure they were serious about focusing on winning, but this is the godam NBA, an elite league... Were they really believing giving the reins to a sophomore PF with zero PG experience would help this team win more?

Really feels like a team of young guys in an adult league. And you could see it hurt their confidence and development.

[buttsR4rebounding]

How much longer does Sochan's defensive reputation last? His DBPM this year is -1.2 same as last season. Dyson Daniels drafted the same year as Sochan has a +2.1 although he cannot not shoot at all. Wesley is at -0.1 but he was -1.8 last season so according to DBPM he's made a big jump in defense this year.

Just saying that for a guy who supposedly plays strong defense its not supported by advanced stats. Can anyone post his opponent shooting numbers?

What do the numbers look like since he went pack to forward? Guarding PGs in this league can make your defensive numbers look bad in a hurry.

[tbdog]

In Jan he is holding his matchup to 2.6 % worst than their average fg% contesting almost as much shots as our centers and still probably top 5 in matchup difficulty league wide. Advance stats on defense are still pretty much garbage.

He is also asked to mark so many different types of players, and usually the opposition best player. He was defending banchero last night. Once the Spurs start creating a team, we should see substantial growth.

[ambchang]

I was worried that the PG experiment would destroy sochan’s confidence when he was playing like ass but he seems to be hitting his strides again once he moved back to PF.

I have to admit, I was for the PG experiment at first because I thought if it worked it would be phenomenal, obviously it didn’t and I don’t know what sochan got out of it. Still thought the pathway to go would’ve been having Tre start and sochan being the secondary.

[BacktoBasics]

Sometimes (most of the time), fans are wrong about FOs' decisions but for the sake of it, a whole bunch of people here saw/knew that team needed a couple vets who know how to win, and at least a vet PG. I don't know what they were thinking, and I'm pretty sure they were serious about focusing on winning, but this is the godam NBA, an elite league... Were they really believing giving the reins to a sophomore PF with zero PG experience would help this team win more?

Really feels like a team of young guys in an adult league. And you could see it hurt their confidence and development.

I imagine for what was available they were unwilling to unload significant assets.

If you look at the state of teams that have leveraged their draft capital you’d see more losers than winners.

It’s seems the prudent approach is the smart move despite how impatient we all are. But I think this offseason we’ll see the first leg in a long game of maneuvering etc.

[JPB]

I imagine for what was available they were unwilling to unload significant assets.

If you look at the state of teams that have leveraged their draft capital you’d see more losers than winners.

It’s seems the prudent approach is the smart move despite how impatient we all are. But I think this offseason we’ll see the first leg in a long game of maneuvering etc.

Maybe, but you hurt your players value and confidence doing so. as well as your franchise appeal and pedigree in a small market that suddenly generated a lot of attention all around the world...

It's already hard to attract marquee players, and it feels like you're wasting Wemby whose amazing season is also impacted by the bad record... You don't wanna piss too much your potential franchise player in a small market, spurs better upgrade the team this summer. With the way (super)stars ask to move nowadays, feels like teams are more and more going towards rebuilding by the middle than full on, long term tanking/rebuilding which doesn't bring you more guarantees. I'll give them this year, since spurs wanted to know if Wemby was the real deal (I personnally wanted them to move this summer already). Now they know he's GOAT category, make all the moves you can to give him a real competitive team by next year... Enough with the experimentations, reclamation projects or long shot prospects.

[Atl Spur]

I was worried that the PG experiment would destroy sochan’s confidence when he was playing like ass but he seems to be hitting his strides again once he moved back to PF.

I have to admit, I was for the PG experiment at first because I thought if it worked it would be phenomenal, obviously it didn’t and I don’t know what sochan got out of it. Still thought the pathway to go would’ve been having Tre start and sochan being the secondary.
It worked for its purpose…..exposure. His game will be better for it in the future :) This was a calculated move with the future in mind, not the here and now. Sochan will be ok.

[Pauleta14]

Spurs should trade Wemby and make Sochan the center of their project!!! :lol

Pop can't choose between those 2 generational players ......that ARE NOT compatible

[Sugus]

Maybe, but you hurt your players value and confidence doing so. as well as your franchise appeal and pedigree in a small market that suddenly generated a lot of attention all around the world...

It's already hard to attract marquee players, and it feels like you're wasting Wemby whose amazing season is also impacted by the bad record... You don't wanna piss too much your potential franchise player in a small market, spurs better upgrade the team this summer. With the way (super)stars ask to move nowadays, feels like teams are more and more going towards rebuilding by the middle than full on, long term tanking/rebuilding which doesn't bring you more guarantees. I'll give them this year, since spurs wanted to know if Wemby was the real deal (I personnally wanted them to move this summer already). Now they know he's GOAT category, make all the moves you can to give him a real competitive team by next year... Enough with the experimentations, reclamation projects or long shot prospects.

This point gets repeated often here nowadays, but nobody wants to look at the other side of this coin, which is the Luka Doncic and Mavs situation right now. Yes, focusing on winning early is good for development and "star morale" or whatever, but can you really say that it won't piss off your star even more to be mediocre early on, and get a failure of a team surrounding you for the foreseeable future?

I'd say Doncic looks more pissed off at his situation than Wemby is, though I don't keep up with the Mavs beyond general news. He's notoriously frustrated with the team on the court at times, and the Mavs have little assets to improve moving forward and no young talent to pair with Luka, as he was too good, too early. Wemby is, too, so it's a good parallel to keep an eye on.

At the end of the day, a #1 pick that gets truly frustrated or angry because their rookie team is not good, is not a player worth building around. Wemby shows exactly the opposite signs and tremendous poise, which is a big green flag in my book. Patience is rewarded.

[z0sa]

Spurs should trade Wemby and make Sochan the center of their project!!! :lol

Pop can't choose between those 2 generational players ......that ARE NOT compatible

Disagree, if Sochan lives up to his potential (big IF, granted, as it always is in a League at this level of competition and involving extremely young, raw players) then he will be a great running mate for Wemby.

A lot of people talk KL (a bit crazy IMHO) or Dennis Rodman, but I see a James Worthy type of player. Usually a great finisher, wants to run, can play defense and rebound the ball. He doesn't quite have Worthy's size or athleticism but he could possibly make up for it in outside shooting and hustle. Obviously I'm talking archetype here, not making a super direct comparison.

[Pauleta14]

Look, I'm very far from a hater, I like a lot of things in Sochan, he has a rare versatility and grit, he's young and can progress etc

But to me Wemby has to be the center of the rebuild and be surrounded by players who understand he is the Franchise and should be number 1 option

Not only Sochan averages about 1 assist every TWO games to Victor but the eye test shows he rarely if never looks for him! Unless it's obvious

I'm not implying he doesn't like him, they seems to be good mates, but he's just unable to help Victor on the offensive end and it's a big issue to me

I'm aware Pop has a man crush on him so I'm not even hoping Spurs get rid of him, but every games he drives me crazy calling his own number all the time and ignoring Victor

[CGD]

^ Sochan is absolutely part of the future. Wemby is not the only player struggling to find their footing because of all the “experimenting.” You need an asshole on your team who is also smart and moldable. That’s Jeremy. He suffers no fools and a great piece for the future.

[Pauleta14]

^ I'm not denying that, I'm just pointing an OBVIOUS fact/issue that ppl refuse to talk about on this board or are being labbeled haters if they dare mention it...

Sochan never looks to pass for Wemby, numbers and eye test confirms it and I haven't seen any amelioration neither the will from Sochan to do so.

It seems he can't think on the floor, he just reacts all the time and has only a plan A which is his number most of the time.

I just don't see this issue as an easy one to solve, it's part of his personality

[BacktoBasics]

Maybe, but you hurt your players value and confidence doing so. as well as your franchise appeal and pedigree in a small market that suddenly generated a lot of attention all around the world...

It's already hard to attract marquee players, and it feels like you're wasting Wemby whose amazing season is also impacted by the bad record... You don't wanna piss too much your potential franchise player in a small market, spurs better upgrade the team this summer. With the way (super)stars ask to move nowadays, feels like teams are more and more going towards rebuilding by the middle than full on, long term tanking/rebuilding which doesn't bring you more guarantees. I'll give them this year, since spurs wanted to know if Wemby was the real deal (I personnally wanted them to move this summer already). Now they know he's GOAT category, make all the moves you can to give him a real competitive team by next year... Enough with the experimentations, reclamation projects or long shot prospects.
There’s a bunch of teams that leveraged their assets and can’t move forward. How’s that for morale? I’m not opposed to moving draft stock for the right trade but we still have to build a team.

We can’t toss shit around or we’re gonna look like the Suns or Mavs.

[MannyIsGod]

This point gets repeated often here nowadays, but nobody wants to look at the other side of this coin, which is the Luka Doncic and Mavs situation right now. Yes, focusing on winning early is good for development and "star morale" or whatever, but can you really say that it won't piss off your star even more to be mediocre early on, and get a failure of a team surrounding you for the foreseeable future?

I'd say Doncic looks more pissed off at his situation than Wemby is, though I don't keep up with the Mavs beyond general news. He's notoriously frustrated with the team on the court at times, and the Mavs have little assets to improve moving forward and no young talent to pair with Luka, as he was too good, too early. Wemby is, too, so it's a good parallel to keep an eye on.

At the end of the day, a #1 pick that gets truly frustrated or angry because their rookie team is not good, is not a player worth building around. Wemby shows exactly the opposite signs and tremendous poise, which is a big green flag in my book. Patience is rewarded.

I definitely agree with the last sentence here which is why people need to chill with how Wemby feels. Its just that people have Kawhi baggage. But if Wemby is going to leave over shit that happens in first, second, or even third years then he's probably never going to be the one here. Thankfully doesn't seem like thats the case.

[TD 21]

There’s a bunch of teams that leveraged their assets and can’t move forward. How’s that for morale? I’m not opposed to moving draft stock for the right trade but we still have to build a team.

We can’t toss shit around or we’re gonna look like the Suns or Mavs.

Of course, but they can't be too precious with the assets or picky with the star player either.

This is not some run of the mill centerpiece, it's one of the GOAT prospects, who already looks on or ahead of schedule, seems frustrated and has a unique body/skillet set, in an era where marquee players have less patience than ever.

They can't afford to spend X amount of seasons being uncompetitive, hoping to luck into the significant pieces they need via the draft and for those players to be at the level they need sooner than later.

Prime example of what I'm talking about: Spurs' Jeremy Sochan reveals 'reasons' behind Rising Star Game snub (clutchpoints.com) (https://clutchpoints.com/spurs-news-jeremy-sochan-reveals-reasons-rising-star-game-snub)

[JPB]

There’s a bunch of teams that leveraged their assets and can’t move forward. How’s that for morale? I’m not opposed to moving draft stock for the right trade but we still have to build a team.

We can’t toss shit around or we’re gonna look like the Suns or Mavs.

I'm not calling for them to empty the war chest already (unless Luka is available) but a couple proven vets on reasonable contracts, notably a solid PG, would be a good start... Can't enter next season with the same roster. Losing is demoralizing and frustrating for eveveryone when you have Wemby doing so well... At some point you gotta realize this kid deserves to reconsider your modus operandi and accelarate things...The kid is ready, no need to wait, winning should be part of the process for Wemby and the rest of the youngsters, it validates everything. That's what Pop litterally said in presesason, he had the right diagnosis but the wrong method.

[BacktoBasics]

I'm not calling for them to empty the war chest already (unless Luka is available) but a couple proven vets on reasonable contracts, notably a solid PG, would be a good start... Can't enter next season with the same roster. Losing is demoralizing and frustrating for eveveryone when you have Wemby doing so well... At some point you gotta realize this kid deserves to reconsider your modus operandi and accelarate things...The kid is ready, no need to wait, winning should be part of the process for Wemby and the rest of the youngsters, it validates everything. That's what Pop litterally said in presesason, he had the right diagnosis but the wrong method.
I get you. Let me bridge the gap here.

Even if we did as you suggested we still aren’t gonna ring this year. We’d likely be sniffing the outer edges of the play in but not close enough to get in.

So punting to this coming offseason makes the most sense. It sucks watching it but there wasn’t anything available that was going to move the needle enough right away.

I do think this offseason is where you’ll start to see the beginning framework for some of the moves you’re suggesting and we’ll have been able to fully analyze the upcoming draft and maintain our assets.

If we look the same going into the preseason next year I’ll absolutely be on the miserable train.

[Ariel]

I'm not calling for them to empty the war chest already (unless Luka is available) but a couple proven vets on reasonable contracts, notably a solid PG, would be a good start... Can't enter next season with the same roster. Losing is demoralizing and frustrating for eveveryone when you have Wemby doing so well... At some point you gotta realize this kid deserves to reconsider your modus operandi and accelarate things...The kid is ready, no need to wait, winning should be part of the process for Wemby and the rest of the youngsters, it validates everything. That's what Pop litterally said in presesason, he had the right diagnosis but the wrong method.
Though I thought the Spurs needed another high pick this year, I was in the camp of signing a vet PG (suggested Monte Morris) and backup C (suggested Plumlee) in the past offseason to avoid a scenario such as this one. The Spurs' FO decided to take it even more slowly doing basically nothing, and while I think it defintely caused the young guys unnecessary struggles (yes Wemby but Sochan even more so), had they not done so I believe the Spurs own pick would probably be around 8/9 right now, with the Raptors' pick at 5 with a very low chance of conveying this year.

So in retrospect they made their choices with a goal in mind (prioritize another high pick over winning right now) and their strategy proved successful in that regard. With that said, I don't think for a second the Spurs will follow the same path this summer, I don't expect all in moves (those will likely come in the '25 free agency with several high profile targets such as Donovan Mitchell and Lauri Markkanen), I would be shocked if the Spurs don't get 2/3 vets (PG, wing, center) to help turn the team around and get to, say, pushing for a play in spot. That would IMO be a healthier goal than a 3rd straight tank, which seems to me will do more harm than good at this point.

[toki9]

Not only Sochan averages about 1 assist every TWO games to Victor but the eye test shows he rarely if never looks for him! Unless it's obvious

I'm curious about the metric you're using. Is it the 27 total assists that Sochan has on Wembanyama?

[Atl Spur]

Though I thought the Spurs needed another high pick this year, I was in the camp of signing a vet PG (suggested Monte Morris) and backup C (suggested Plumlee) in the past offseason to avoid a scenario such as this one. The Spurs' FO decided to take it even more slowly doing basically nothing, and while I think it defintely caused the young guys unnecessary struggles (yes Wemby but Sochan even more so), had they not done so I believe the Spurs own pick would probably be around 8/9 right now, with the Raptors' pick at 5 with a very low chance of conveying this year.

So in retrospect they made their choices with a goal in mind (prioritize another high pick over winning right now) and their strategy proved successful in that regard. With that said, I don't think for a second the Spurs will follow the same path this summer, I don't expect all in moves (those will likely come in the '25 free agency with several high profile targets such as Donovan Mitchell and Lauri Markkanen), I would be shocked if the Spurs don't get 2/3 vets (PG, wing, center) to help turn the team around and get to, say, pushing for a play in spot. That would IMO be a healthier goal than a 3rd straight tank, which seems to me will do more harm than good at this point.

^this

[CGD]

Though I thought the Spurs needed another high pick this year, I was in the camp of signing a vet PG (suggested Monte Morris) and backup C (suggested Plumlee) in the past offseason to avoid a scenario such as this one. The Spurs' FO decided to take it even more slowly doing basically nothing, and while I think it defintely caused the young guys unnecessary struggles (yes Wemby but Sochan even more so), had they not done so I believe the Spurs own pick would probably be around 8/9 right now, with the Raptors' pick at 5 with a very low chance of conveying this year.

So in retrospect they made their choices with a goal in mind (prioritize another high pick over winning right now) and their strategy proved successful in that regard. With that said, I don't think for a second the Spurs will follow the same path this summer, I don't expect all in moves (those will likely come in the '25 free agency with several high profile targets such as Donovan Mitchell and Lauri Markkanen), I would be shocked if the Spurs don't get 2/3 vets (PG, wing, center) to help turn the team around and get to, say, pushing for a play in spot. That would IMO be a healthier goal than a 3rd straight tank, which seems to me will do more harm than good at this point.

From your keyboard to God’s eyeballs. I will be very frustrated if they tank again next year, Cooper Flagg and all.

[ambchang]

Spurs should trade Wemby and make Sochan the center of their project!!! :lol

Pop can't choose between those 2 generational players ......that ARE NOT compatible

When’s the last time you watched the spurs play?

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/InSochanWeTrust/status/1753037558026563771

[Pauleta14]

I'm curious about the metric you're using. Is it the 27 total assists that Sochan has on Wembanyama?

Yes (bare in mind he had 3-4 just in the Bucks game)

but eye test is enough to see his inability to pass to Victor, body language shows he’s not even trying…

I know he’s young and learning etc but I haven’t seen any improvement at least in the intentions whereas the rest of the roster at least try (Vassel isn’t a great passer as well but he clearly tries for ex)

It seems to be a taboo subject on ST where you’re either a believer or a hater …

[Pauleta14]

When’s the last time you watched the spurs play?

great argumentation…

so we answer with questions?

when was the last time you saw an assist from Sochan to Wemby?

[Ariel]

Yes (bare in mind he had 3-4 just in the Bucks game)

but eye test is enough to see his inability to pass to Victor, body language shows he’s not even trying…

I know he’s young and learning etc but I haven’t seen any improvement at least in the intentions whereas the rest of the roster at least try (Vassel isn’t a great passer as well but he clearly tries for ex)

It seems to be a taboo subject on ST where you’re either a believer or a hater …
The problem with that argument isn't whether or not he needs to be able to find Wemby more often, because we all agree he does, the problem is that you're ascribing ill-will to it, and that's what seems difficult to agree with. But in any case, I don't think the issue warrants all that fuss: no one (on the Spurs, here, anywhere) doubts this is Wemby's team going forward.

So once other factors are taken out of the equation (proper PG rotation, proper spacing, an offense that flows somewhat, another year under their belt, etc) it becomes clear a given player (Sochan or whomever) takes decisions based on anything other than the team's best interest, they'll be flipped so fast their heads would be left spinning.

So if there's any truth to your accusations (there isn't, but I'm indulging your argument) you need not worry, it will be taken care of in the short term.

[Pauleta14]

The problem with that argument isn't whether or not he needs to be able to find Wemby more often, because we all agree he does, the problem is that you're ascribing ill-will to it, and that's what seems difficult to agree with. But in any case, I don't think the issue warrants all that fuss: no one (on the Spurs, here, anywhere) doubts this is Wemby's team going forward.

So once other factors are taken out of the equation (proper PG rotation, proper spacing, an offense that flows somewhat, another year under their belt, etc) it becomes clear a given player (Sochan or whomever) takes decisions based on anything other than the team's best interest, they'll be flipped so fast their heads would be left spinning.

So if there's any truth to your accusations (there isn't, but I'm indulging your argument) you need not worry, it will be taken care of in the short term.

I don’t think there’s any ill-will to it at all. I said in a previous post that they seem to be good mates…

I just think Sochan is doing his best but his main skills and imo the main reason for Pop’s crush on him is his defensive intensity and versatility.
On the offensive end he has one gear and one plan. Stops dribbling before knowing what to do ALL THE TIME (like Zero progress is crazy …) and seems to have difficulties finding Wemby.

probably bc it’s not as easy as it seems and he sees the risks of TO too much

ultimately he almost never looks for Wemby, it’s not an opinion it’s a fact and I think it’s an issue when they both are projected to be the future.

[Dejounte]

Oh Pauleta14 But It Isn’t Actually Fact That Youre Presenting Because If It Was Fact You’d Present Something Like This:

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1631110/passes-dash?LastNGames=10&dir=D&sort=PASS
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630200/passes-dash?dir=D&sort=PASS
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630170/passes-dash

Jeremy Is Third On The Team In Passing To Wemby
1. Tre - 7.0
2. Devin - 5.7
3. Sochan - 5.3

So Sochan Passes To Wemby Five Times On Average In A Single Game And Not “Never” Which Is Based On Emotion And Lies

[Dejounte]

The Fourth Best Passer To Wemby Sits At 3.7… Malaki Branham. So There’s An Obvious Gap Between Sochan And The Next Best Passer. Imagine That.

If You Wanted To Be Mad At Anyone For Not Passing To Wemby, Keldon And Collins Would Have Been More Valid As Their Numbers Are Lower.

[objective]

The time of ball handling possession for Sochan vs Vassell must be quite large.

Regardless, I expect the average for Vassell has increased as the season has gone on as he does seem to try more in the pick and roll the last month

And Collins might be higher if they aren't counting turnovers. Collins loves to pass, out of bounds perhaps most of all.

[rankingtear]

Most of it is due to PNR those low assist numbers of Wemby and Sochan.

[ambchang]

great argumentation…

so we answer with questions?

when was the last time you saw an assist from Sochan to Wemby?
Sochan and wemby have been having very good since he moved to PF which makes me wonder if you have seen them play since.

And what answer with a question? You didn’t ask anything. I was wondering if you’ve watched them play because your comment was outdated. You seemed to answer with a question.

You rely heavily on the eye test and kept stating sochans inability to pass to wemby as a fact. The guy is a power forward. He doesn’t have a lot of assists a game. But fact is he is number three in passes to wemby, behind the two guards and just slightly behind Vassell. What do you want?

Finally, no, a question is a question. Not everything is an argumentation.

[toki9]

Yes (bare in mind he had 3-4 just in the Bucks game) but eye test is enough to see his inability to pass to Victor, body language shows he’s not even trying…

Per the stat you're using, Sochan has 36 assists to Vassell, 32 to Collins, 27 to Victor and 23 to Keldon. So that does seem low. But I think the issue with using assist alone is that it's a dependent stat that has to be finished by the receiver.

So if you look at Sochan's passes that ends up as a shot attempt, it actually comes out like this: 109 to Victor, 101 to Vassell, 94 to Keldon, 76 to Collins, and 27 to Branham. The problem is field goal % resulting from those looks. Victor is at 26.6% and Vassell is at 49.5%, Keldon at 36.2% and Collins at 47.4%. Shot attempt is also a dependent stat, but I think if you want to look at how much someone is looking to set up the other guy, it's probably better than assist numbers alone.

Another way of looking at this would be to look at % of Sochan's passes to the receiver that end up as a shot attempt for the receiver. If you do that, it looks like this: 43% for Victor, 34% for Vassell and Keldon, 29% for Branham, 28% for Collins and 13% for Tre. In other word, Sochan’s passes to Wemby are more likely to be set-up to score passes and not just moving the offense passes. Probably this is why it may seem like Sochan is not looking for Wemby. If he’s just setting up and moving the offenses along, he’s more likely to pass to backcourt and wing players, not front court. So he;s making more passes for that purpose. But when Sochan is looking to set up someone, it’s more for Wemby than anyone else, and by quite a bit.

Also, I would not rely too much on "eye test". It can be helpful, I think, but it's usually just another way of saying "confirmation bias".

[cd98]

Sochan is a good player that will be on the Spurs for a long time, which means we are going to have to read years of Spurstalk bitching about him.

[Atl Spur]

Sochan is a good player that will be on the Spurs for a long time, which means we are going to have to read years of Spurstalk bitching about him.

They’ll stop bitching and move on to the new flavor of the month……a lot of clowns in here! Word salads galore….

[freetiago]

I’ll stop bitching about Sochan if he can ever manage to go 1 single game where he doesn’t airball or fall over himself every other play for no reason

[RC_Drunkford]

He been rebounding like a mad man lately

[spursparker9]

He been rebounding like a mad man lately

2nd coming of Rodman

[Dejounte]

If Sochan Can Maintain His 3pt Percentage For The Rest Of The Year + Continue Being A Versatile Defender + Suddenly Become A Good Rebounder As He Has Been For The Last Couple Games… Then He Really Does Become A Perfect Partner Next To Wemby Tbh

[Dejounte]

He Was Shutting Down Ingram And In Small Spurts Locking Down Banchero The Other Night. His Focus On Defense Has Been Otherworldly As Of Late. A PF Next To Wemby Needs To Be Able To Have The Lateral Agility To Match Up With Today’s Forwards And Sochan Has That. It Would Be An Injustice To Wemby To Move Him Back To PF Where It’s Not His Natural Position Or Put A Strictly Low Post PF Next To Him That Will Force Him To Operate Outside More On Offense And Defense. He’s At The Sweet Spot Right Now.

[SpursBills]

I hope Sochan continues to develop, but honestly the most encouraging thing about him if he pans out is that it eases some of my significant concerns about the front office. Since the primo pick, I had significant reservations about the competence of the front office and their ability to surround any franchise player with enough talent to compete. If they can turn 9, 20, and 25 into a core starter and a good backup, that's hitting at least average if not above average honestly for their draft position.

[freetiago]

Low volume shooter hot streak is over. Back to being a below avg shooter % wise despite every look being wide open. I’ll give him some credit for not airballing one tonight, massive improvement for him. People think an undersized can’t shoot, defend, or do 1 thing well PF is a long term player for this team

[Seventyniner]

1755676602053116142

[Rocalcio]

1755676602053116142


Good for him, I was surprised he wasn’t selected.

[The Truth #6]

Sharpe injured, or they found out he sucks?

[rascal]

Sharpe was playing well before the injury, averaging 20 points a game.
Then came back from injury too soon and numbers started to fall.

During Sharpe’s ramp up in basketball activities to return to play, he experienced worsening of his symptoms. Due to his lack of progression, it has been determined that Sharpe will undergo corrective surgery to address a core muscle injury. Surgery is tentatively planned for later this week.

The idea that Sharpe sucks is a Spurstalk thing, not reality.

[rankingtear]

Sharpe was playing well before the injury, averaging 20 points a game.
Then came back from injury too soon and numbers started to fall.

During Sharpe’s ramp up in basketball activities to return to play, he experienced worsening of his symptoms. Due to his lack of progression, it has been determined that Sharpe will undergo corrective surgery to address a core muscle injury. Surgery is tentatively planned for later this week.

The idea that Sharpe sucks is a Spurstalk thing, not reality.

He is a poor man's Jalen Green or a homeless man's Zach Lavine. Julian Champaigne with a green light. Lonnie Walker with average intelligence.

[Mr. Body]

Sharpe has incredible talent but little foundation. He also has shown a propensity to avoid work or showing himself competitively.

[ace3g]

Welcome to the Headband Sochan Era!!!

[Ariel]

Sharpe injured, or they found out he sucks?
Trick question: those are not mutually exclusive.

[RC_Drunkford]

Scottie Barnes last night: 3/15 FG, 7 points. Sochan locked him up and outplayed him scoring 16

[rankingtear]

Going back and forth with Sochan, but his skillset is just too scalable in the playoff and in the future, specifically his versatility on defense. Haven't watched full games lately but watching the box , the other teams primary option seem to struggle early going against him. The problem is offensively we are nowhere near able to cover for him like DEN is doing with Aaron Gordon. If Wemby ever improves his perimeter scoring , Sochan can occupy more of his spot closer to the rim even as the occasional roll man. And you never know he is 20 still with some creation flashes could be a legit 2-way guy in time.

[exstatic]

Scottie Barnes last night: 3/15 FG, 7 points. Sochan locked him up and outplayed him scoring 16

Sochan played well, but the announcers said that 4 of Wemby’s 10 blocks were on Barnes.

[Ariel]

Sochan played well, but the announcers said that 4 of Wemby’s 10 blocks were on Barnes.
So? Sochan's defense isn't going to rack up counting stats, but he always stays in front of his man and contests. He played Barnes extremely well yesterday.

[RC_Drunkford]

Sochan played well, but the announcers said that 4 of Wemby’s 10 blocks were on Barnes.

so? That would still make him 3/11 and he only took 15 shots in total so Sochan guarded him well

[SpursBills]

This was actually a matchup where I expected Sochan to do well and fortunately he lived up to expectations. Barnes has similar size to sochan with neither a huge strength or speed advantage to exploit. He also isn’t offensively advanced enough to dominate him like a Luka and doesn’t get an insane whistle. Glad to see him pass this test, he did much better compared to the last time he matched up against Barnes.

[lefty]

Sochan is very useful when he is used properly tbh

He is bionic, like a more stilled Bo Outlaw

Solid swiss army knife type of player, I hope he can become more consistent

[spurraider21]

Sochan played well, but the announcers said that 4 of Wemby’s 10 blocks were on Barnes.
he had 2 on one possession alone when barnes tried to iso him, got blocked, got the rebound, and immediately blocked again. then not long after he tried to dunk it and wemby blocked him from behind (he cried for a foul but replay showed it was clean). i dont remember the 4th one off the top of my head, but he probably did get blocked elsewhere

[freetiago]

Sochan still garbage but the smooth brains here don’t know anything about basketball. His only baskets were wide open dunks created by his teammates vs a midget front court with Kelly Olynk as the rim protector. He scores vs shit defenses like this and looks worse than Champagnie vs any top 10 D. His 3s were all airballs and his non wide open dunks were him getting blocked or failing to finish at the rim with anyone within 3 feet and falling down crying for fouls as the other team runs back and scores on the 4v5

[ambchang]

Sochan still garbage but the smooth brains here don’t know anything about basketball. His only baskets were wide open dunks created by his teammates vs a midget front court with Kelly Olynk as the rim protector. He scores vs shit defenses like this and looks worse than Champagnie vs any top 10 D. His 3s were all airballs and his non wide open dunks were him getting blocked or failing to finish at the rim with anyone within 3 feet and falling down crying for fouls as the other team runs back and scores on the 4v5

Apparently your wrinkly brain with superior intellect somehow saw how the entire conversation about Barnes going 3-15 is about sochans offence. Bravo.

[Dejounte]

Apparently your wrinkly brain with superior intellect somehow saw how the entire conversation about Barnes going 3-15 is about sochans offence. Bravo.

He goes into the draft thread and still has Sochan’s nuts in his mouth. Quite disturbing how almost every post of his revolves around Sochan… these posters who obsess over players they don’t like are pathetic. he fucked your mom or what?

[freetiago]

Right direction tonight for Jeremy. Next send him to the bench with 15 mins a night before he’s cut from the team

[BatManu20]

1770863879012094411

[spurraider21]

the outside shot still looks clunky. the hitch isnt a complete hitch anymore but he still really slows up around when the ball reaches his forehead. still too much of a catapult

[lefty]

Oh great, now he is going to chuck more 3s

[rascal]

Sochan hasn't improved much at all this year. Stats are almost identical to last year.

And it isn't because of the first 18 games of the season. Stats over the last 25 games are close to the year long stats.

Can't believe people have him locked in for the long term future of the team as the PF.

[Splits]

1770863879012094411

Reminds me so much of this


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBbf5Wb7wNI

[ambchang]

The shot is still clunky. It’s almost a two phased shot.

[Pauleta14]

This thread will be fun to check in a decade

[Knoxxx]

Sochan hasn't improved much at all this year. Stats are almost identical to last year.

And it isn't because of the first 18 games of the season. Stats over the last 25 games are close to the year long stats.

Can't believe people have him locked in for the long term future of the team as the PF.

I like Sochan more at the 3. He’s a small ball 4, he’s not big enough to be a prototypcial 4 at all. Plus his strength is guarding the annoying SGAs and Doncics of the league. He excels gluing to smaller scorers and playmakers.

[Knoxxx]

Don’t sleep on this!

https://www.poundingtherock.com/2024/3/20/24107189/victor-wembanyama-and-jeremy-sochan-can-be-leagues-best-defensive-duo

[spurraider21]

I like Sochan more at the 3. He’s a small ball 4, he’s not big enough to be a prototypcial 4 at all. Plus his strength is guarding the annoying SGAs and Doncics of the league. He excels gluing to smaller scorers and playmakers.
he's going to get much less space to shoot as a 3 and he already struggles making open looks now. nor is he skilled enough offensively to punish guys off the dribble. he usually just slowly spins 4 times then puts up a weak shot that barely grazes the front rim

[Knoxxx]

he's going to get much less space to shoot as a 3 and he already struggles making open looks now. nor is he skilled enough offensively to punish guys off the dribble. he usually just slowly spins 4 times then puts up a weak shot that barely grazes the front rim

When Manu first came in the league he could barely make a contested NBA layup at age 24.

[KobesAchilles]

When Manu first came in the league he could barely make a contested NBA layup at age 24.
When Manu came into the league he was dunking like crazy. He didn’t struggle at all that way.Heck he Eurostepped Shaq as a rookie. He was just injured to start the year so maybe that’s what you’re thinking about?? Bc he also didn’t struggle scoring at the rim at all by his second year. It’s what made him so unique.

[spurraider21]

if you trust ballreference's numbers, as a rookie, he shot 65% on shots from 0-3 feet which is pretty good

[z0sa]

When Manu first came in the league he could barely make a contested NBA layup at age 24.

Yeah, that's not true at all. I was there, I watched every game, and Manu's finishing was one of the most surprising aspects of his game as a rookie.

[CGD]

the outside shot still looks clunky. the hitch isnt a complete hitch anymore but he still really slows up around when the ball reaches his forehead. still too much of a catapult

That’s the least of it. I saw that thing up close: it has a filthy sideward spin.

[spurraider21]

if you really want to notice how ugly it is just focus on his right elbow

[Knoxxx]

Yall trippin. Manu shot 43.8 as a rookie and 41.8 second year while Sochan is shooting 43.9 and only slightly worse than Manu on 3s. The larger point was he gradually improved his shooting in the subsequent years but rarely shot a really high percentage.

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/272/manu-ginobili

Yet, y’all want crucify this kid just for still being a bit raw after almost skipping college for the NBA.

[spurraider21]

Yall trippin. Manu shot 43.8 as a rookie and 41.8 second year while Sochan is shooting 43.9 and only slightly worse than Manu on 3s. The larger point was he gradually improved his shooting in the subsequent years but rarely shot a really high percentage.

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/272/manu-ginobili

Yet, y’all want crucify this kid just for still being a bit raw after almost skipping college for the NBA.
gotta factor in era a bit

during ginobilis first 2 years, the league average FG% was about 44%, whereas its 47.5% now

Manu also took more 3's as a percentage of his total FGA so that would of course bring his raw FG% down. his TS was better even then

[DAF86]

Yall trippin. Manu shot 43.8 as a rookie and 41.8 second year while Sochan is shooting 43.9 and only slightly worse than Manu on 3s. The larger point was he gradually improved his shooting in the subsequent years but rarely shot a really high percentage.

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/272/manu-ginobili

Yet, y’all want crucify this kid just for still being a bit raw after almost skipping college for the NBA.

Manu's TS% in his first 2 seasons: .556 and .536

Sochan's: .509 and .515

Manu was significantly more efficient.

[fafo]

He won't ever be a sharpshooter but hey, it has increased from 24% to 32% on slightly more frequency in a year. Hopefully it can get a few ticks higher. Just from the outside looking in, it seems like they're purposely slowing down his jumper in practice so he is more mindful of the motion in his form.

[spurraider21]

He won't ever be a sharpshooter but hey, it has increased from 24% to 32% on slightly more frequency in a year. Hopefully it can get a few ticks higher. Just from the outside looking in, it seems like they're purposely slowing down his jumper in practice so he is more mindful of the motion in his form.
under 30% in 2024 and that includes a hot january where he shot 37.5%

[Atl Spur]

Wasn’t Manu 3 or 4 years older as a rookie than Sochan?

[Atl Spur]

Give the man time kind sirs.

[DAF86]

Wasn’t Manu 3 or 4 years older as a rookie than Sochan?

Yes, it was also a different era, a different position, and way different style of play. The FG% argument is a weird one.

[Kevin]

Sochan's jump shot FG% is 329 this season. He's hard capped as a role player without a jumper.

[Knoxxx]

The point was Manu kept improving and was not tremendously efficient out of the gates but gradually improved to legendary status. Sochan just went 13-10-6 v DAL and if he hits a couple more shots and goes 18-10-6 people would be thinking he balled out, coupled with his lockdown defense.

Also if he puts up modest stats that could spell team friendly on his first extension yet people want to throw him to the wolves too quickly.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

That’s the least of it. I saw that thing up close: it has a filthy sideward spin.

So much this. I never saw it on TV but live, up close and in person, you can't miss it. I don't know how he shoots as well as he does with that thing coming off his hand like that. It's nauseating to watch. The ball comes off his hand like he's a pitcher throwing a breaking ball. It's completely broken and I can't tell that they are trying to fix it, essentially two years into his career. I can't imagine a scenario where he becomes even an average shooter without doing something about it.

[rankingtear]

His floor right now is PJ Tucker and Grant Williams. Still part of the final 8 man rotation of a finals team. But there is a realistic path to 3-B on a championship team like Green and Gordon.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I like Sochan and I’m hopeful he continues to develop. I don’t see his ceiling as all-star level but he certainly could develop into reliable NBA role player on a great team…or like now, space filler on a terrible one.

[The Truth #6]

Well, at least he's working on it.

[CGD]

Sochan is a keeper. I really like the moxie and every team needs their a-hole.

He just shouldn’t be expected to carry the load on offense ever.

[LeBowen]

He's got the potential and should definitely stay, but I don't think he should be starting.
Ideally, Keldon is moved this summer and Sochan takes the 6th man role.

We need way better spacing around Wemby, we don't want to start a forward who's being dared to shoot by the opposition and does most of his useful work in the paint.

[John B]

he's going to get much less space to shoot as a 3 and he already struggles making open looks now. nor is he skilled enough offensively to punish guys off the dribble. he usually just slowly spins 4 times then puts up a weak shot that barely grazes the front rim

Bruce Bowen texted

[John B]

He's got the potential and should definitely stay, but I don't think he should be starting.
Ideally, Keldon is moved this summer and Sochan takes the 6th man role.

We need way better spacing around Wemby, we don't want to start a forward who's being dared to shoot by the opposition and does most of his useful work in the paint.

Keldon is a spark plug at 6th man. Sochan would be horrendous at 6th man with his offensive challenge.

Risacher at 4 would solve that problem, sliding Sochan to 3. Champ going back to bench or whatever. That guy was a Brynn Forbes not deserving at starting lineup

[KobesAchilles]

The point was Manu kept improving and was not tremendously efficient out of the gates but gradually improved to legendary status. Sochan just went 13-10-6 v DAL and if he hits a couple more shots and goes 18-10-6 people would be thinking he balled out, coupled with his lockdown defense.

Also if he puts up modest stats that could spell team friendly on his first extension yet people want to throw him to the wolves too quickly.
Nobody is throwing him to the wolves. But he is a bench player on any other contender and since I want our team to be a contender one day, it would be ideal to have him play his role off the bench. Also Manu had a much much much better shooting form than Sochan. I'm glad to see that Sochan is working on his jumper, however, I don't see that broken form as being helpful to him going forward.

Honestly and objectively, he's two more shooting steps away from being a decent shooter. And I don't know if he can get there. MKG also worked hard, Justice Winslow worked hard, Stanley Johnson worked hard... There are a lot of players with broken jumpers who work hard and still can't shoot at the forward position.

[LeBowen]

Keldon is a spark plug at 6th man. Sochan would be horrendous at 6th man with his offensive challenge.

Risacher at 4 would solve that problem, sliding Sochan to 3. Champ going back to bench or whatever. That guy was a Brynn Forbes not deserving at starting lineup

We don't necessarily need to keep the same team composition and roles.
We can't afford to have multiple questionable shooters around Wemby. Not against starting lineups.
If we don't get a legit point guard, Jeremy has to be benched, because having both him and Tre on the floor together is really bad for Wemby.

If we don't trade for a point guard and Tre is the starter, then we need two actual 3pt threats on the wings and we need Devin to take it to the next level as the leading scorer from the perimeter.
Then we need to find an actually good 6th man who can keep the offense going from the bench. Keldon is just too fundamentally flawed to be relied on.
And Jeremy could share the floor with that player. Finding the next Manu won't happen, but we certainly can find a Lou/Clarkson type player. Maybe Dillingham is that guy.

If we do actually get a legit point guard who's a pull up threat behind the line, then Jeremy can start...assuming he continues developing his shot.

Btw, no chance Risacher will be able to play the 4 with his frame, at least not for a few years. If you want his team to win, that is.

[rankingtear]

He's got the potential and should definitely stay, but I don't think he should be starting.
Ideally, Keldon is moved this summer and Sochan takes the 6th man role.

We need way better spacing around Wemby, we don't want to start a forward who's being dared to shoot by the opposition and does most of his useful work in the paint.

There is several ways it could work, cause Gordon and Green are comparable shooters. Wemby could develop a face up game allowing Sochan to park at the dunker spot. Sochan improves as an initiator, making opponents guard him on ball. Sochan could just develop into a 38% wide open catch and shoot guy, with his high release he should have enough gravity.

[LeBowen]

There is several ways it could work, cause Gordon and Green are comparable shooters. Wemby could develop a face up game allowing Sochan to park at the dunker spot. Sochan improves as an initiator, making opponents guard him on ball. Sochan could just develop into a 38% wide open catch and shoot guy, with his high release he should have enough gravity.

That's why I said Wemby can't play with multiple bad shooters in the follow up post.
Right now Jeremy is a player opponents dare to shoot.
Tre is making noticable improvements, but he's still not reliable and most of his makes are from the corners. Which is good, but he's a point guard and shouldn't be in the corner that much.

If three other perimeter players were Trae, Devin and let's say Naz Reid, then yeah, Jeremy could play.
But him and Tre simply can't start together next season.

Gordon has three elite floor spacers around him and Jokic that's double-team proof and the best offensive player in the league by far.
Draymond played with four elite floor spacers that ran everyone off the floor and he was a non-factor on offense if we talk scoring.

Meanwhile we're trying to create space for Wemby because if teams can double team him without being punished, then our lineup isn't good enough.
Wemby will probably become great floor spacer himself, but we don't want him spending time outside the paint just because Jeremy can't shoot.

[spurraider21]

Bruce Bowen texted
its weird, he sent it in 2005 and i just got it now. he was also actually an elite defender, not just a theoretically good one

[The Truth #6]

Victor is probably our only player right now that could start on a championship team, but then again most championship teams don't have a roster of 20-year-olds... Interesting!

[spurraider21]

Victor is probably our only player right now that could start on a championship team, but then again most championship teams don't have a roster of 20-year-olds... Interesting!
i mean... the bucks are a title contender and if vassell was starting there over beasley i think they'd be ok

if the nuggets had vassell instead of kcp i think theyd be ok

if the celtics had vassell instead of white they'd still be ok. think white is a better fit given their needs but i dont think they cease to contend or anything like that

just depends on the rest of the team

[Mugen]

Sochan is fine. Lot of the recent young guys looked a lot better in Year 3 vs Year 2 and I'm expecting the same from Jeremy next season tbh.

[Seventyniner]

i mean... the bucks are a title contender and if vassell was starting there over beasley i think they'd be ok

if the nuggets had vassell instead of kcp i think theyd be ok

if the celtics had vassell instead of white they'd still be ok. think white is a better fit given their needs but i dont think they cease to contend or anything like that

just depends on the rest of the team

Given Vassell's contract status and age, I would be comparing him more to Middleton and MPJ and Porzingis rather than Beasley and KCP and White. Basically, can Vassell be the third best guy on a contender?

Of course that is going to look far less favorable for Vassell. He isn't there now, though imo it's not a stretch to say he could be by the time he's 26 or 27.

[Pauleta14]

Sochan is a keeper. I really like the moxie and every team needs their a-hole.

He just shouldn’t be expected to carry the load on offense ever.

Nah bro, Sochan is a modern (fake) tough guy, he’s acting that way because he knows he’s protected.

He’s a funny lad for sure but doesn’t think much on the floor and way too limited

[SpursBills]

Nah bro, Sochan is a modern (fake) tough guy, he’s acting that way because he knows he’s protected.

He’s a funny lad for sure but doesn’t think much on the floor and way too limited

What's the worst asset that you'd be willing to trade him for? Unprotected first rounder? Lottery protected? 2nd rounder? Late 2nd rounder? Salary dump? Would you pay picks to offload him?

[Pauleta14]

What's the worst asset that you'd be willing to trade him for? Unprotected first rounder? Lottery protected? 2nd rounder? Late 2nd rounder? Salary dump? Would you pay picks to offload him?

I’d keep him rn unless he’s asked in a big trade package.

Im just not as high on him as a lot of you are. I recon his defensive abilities but the balance with his offensive limitations is most of the time negative.

I haven’t seen much improvement and don’t understand how he’d suddenly change in his 3rd year but who knows…

I’d be happy to be wrong tbh

[Knoxxx]

I just went and rewatched the Mavs game and Doncic was 2 of 8 with Sochan guarding him. May want to look into Doncic's scoring stats if you are unfamiliar with his proficiency in that regard. What is even more notable about that is the discouragement factor Sochan provides. Generally, Doncic didn't even try to score on Sochan he was much more likely to give the ball up. Getting the ball out of the other team's best player's hands is very valuable.

I saw the same thing against OKC. SGA tried Sochan a few times and failed, got to where he'd just as soon throw the ball to someone else even to start the offense than work against Sochan. That's much bigger than nitpicking Sochan's elbow on jump shots.

As far as getting more efficient in his scoring, I'd like to see Sochan go into the body of bigs more under the basket, for one thing. His motor and effort are awesome though, he's in the middle of everything usually.

Also noted Doncic gets away with pushing off defenders with his off arm while dribbling, they need to clean that crap up it is so flagrant and obvious when he does it.

[CGD]

Nah bro, Sochan is a modern (fake) tough guy, he’s acting that way because he knows he’s protected.

He’s a funny lad for sure but doesn’t think much on the floor and way too limited

Nah, on the agitator thing I’ll take the words of loons like Draymond and Beverly over your gut feeling:

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/ways-one-draymond-green-likes-jeremy-sochan-s-18884296.php

https://www.tiktok.com/@patbevpod/video/7299483391701945631

[Pauleta14]

Nah, on the agitator thing I’ll take the words of loons like Draymond and Beverly over your gut feeling:

https://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/ways-one-draymond-green-likes-jeremy-sochan-s-18884296.php

https://www.tiktok.com/@patbevpod/video/7299483391701945631

wow thx, you couldn’t have chosen better examples to make my point :lol

What an era…

[Knoxxx]

In a bar room brawl, I'd take Sochan any day!

[CGD]

wow thx, you couldn’t have chosen better examples to make my point :lol

What an era…

You’re all over the place. The point was that Jermey’s biggest value to the team is in his being the resident a-hole/his moxie. Two MVP resident a-holes who have made long careers out of it, have given Jeremy props for his ability to be just that.

I don’t think anyone here thinks Jeremy is going to average 25/12 or anything like that.

[Pauleta14]

You’re all over the place. The point was that Jermey’s biggest value to the team is in his being the resident a-hole/his moxie. Two MVP resident a-holes who have made long careers out of it, have given Jeremy props for his ability to be just that.

I don’t think anyone here thinks Jeremy is going to average 25/12 or anything like that.


There’s nothing he’s doing that compensâtes his limitations.

you’re overrating some clickbait content as if those 2 knew what they were talking about. You think they watch the Spurs on their free time?
They’re just using cliches as contents.

[TheGreatYacht]

The biggest bust in franchise history. Drafting a fucking scrub from Baylor’s bench should be a fireable offense on itself. Forget about drafting a predator from Alabama’s bench, forget about Branham and Wesley both being gigantic net negatives.

A Pistons reject in Brian Wrong has no business running a team. I can’t stomach hearing “Nikola Topic” on draft night

[Pauleta14]

Siver linning we need more games like those until the end of RS to hope PATFO open their eyes.

Man this dude is dumb :lol

[freetiago]

Our defensive stopper who makes other guys score +10 pts above their averages on better efficiency. Also airballs his open 3s and misses rim on his midrange shots while falling to the floor every other play

[TheGreatYacht]

Siver linning we need more games like those until the end of RS to hope PATFO open their eyes.

Man this dude is dumb :lol
He got the HEB commercial treatment after being a net negative last season. If they thought he was a good player then, then they most likely still do since he’s shown absolutely ZERO improvement in Year 2. The only department he showed any improvement in was 3p shooting and that’s going back to the norm. He’s 17/75 from three since February started, which is an embarrassing 22.6%. Teams are treating him like Westbrick and he hasn’t realized it’s on purpose since he keeps chucking them up :lol

If anyone hasn’t bothered to look at this scrub’s numbers for the season, I suggest you do so and compare them to last year. Basic and advanced stats. All identical.

After fluking his way into being a rising star injury reserve, this summer is the time to sell high on this scrub. His value will never be higher. He won’t ever be a starter on a championship team, just ditch the fucking scrub and get something back from that waste of a 9 pick. DO NOT GIVE HIM A SECOND CONTRACT TO JUSTIFY THE WHIFF

[rascal]

The team needs an over haul. Three starters need to be replaced and the bench needs an upgrade.

No waiting around hoping these players turn into something great, it isn't going to happen.

[CorrectCrusader]

You CANNOT be a dud on offense in the modern nba. You just can't. Sochans defense isn't close to good enough to make up for that.

[poopbox]

This dude shot a wide open jumpshot that hit the bottom of the rim and then the bottom of the backboard

I need Bill Nye to explain to me how that's even possible

[freetiago]

Someone get the clip for the airball 3 and midrange he took this game

[Pauleta14]

He got the HEB commercial treatment after being a net negative last season. If they thought he was a good player then, then they most likely still do since he’s shown absolutely ZERO improvement in Year 2. The only department he showed any improvement in was 3p shooting and that’s going back to the norm. He’s 17/75 from three since February started, which is an embarrassing 22.6%. Teams are treating him like Westbrick and he hasn’t realized it’s on purpose since he keeps chucking them up :lol

If anyone hasn’t bothered to look at this scrub’s numbers for the season, I suggest you do so and compare them to last year. Basic and advanced stats. All identical.

After fluking his way into being a rising star injury reserve, this summer is the time to sell high on this scrub. His value will never be higher. He won’t ever be a starter on a championship team, just ditch the fucking scrub and get something back from that waste of a 9 pick. DO NOT GIVE HIM A SECOND CONTRACT TO JUSTIFY THE WHIFF


We all know there’s zero chance Pop gets rid of Sochan. Any times he talks about him he’s about to get emotional :lol

My only hope is that he becomes a bench player thx to either draft pick or trade this summer.

[Pauleta14]

https://x.com/GrizzStats/status/1771352369579876519?s=20

That's an all time Shaqtin' A Fool tbh :lol

[offset formation]

Sochan is fine. Lot of the recent young guys looked a lot better in Year 3 vs Year 2 and I'm expecting the same from Jeremy next season tbh.

Yup, I'm fully on board the hype train still for Sochan.

[rankingtear]

Sochan has all the tools and demeanor to be a championship level 4 man. You can't pay everybody. You gotta have role players. At the 4, there are stars then after that the wing connector types like Sochan, that occupies championship teams. It is all about resource allocation, there is more money for guards and wings. The 3 spot is the most crucial moving forward. I think this is the spot with no role player alternative. It has to be someone that is going to make 30+ million a year on his second contract.

[DJR210]

The billing said he could guard positions 1-5, he was a defensive pest, and last year he seemed to be a potential threat offensively.. I simply don't see any of it.. Seldom makes defensive plays outside of rebounds, hasn't really gotten under people's skin this year, and seems to screw up every good looking offensive opportunity and just can't finish.. I'm not sure what his strength is at this point

[JeffDuncan]

Sochan has all the tools …


He can’t shoot. He is not a useful NBA basketball player.

[bdictjames]

I was looking at highlights of Sochan from Baylor. It's interesting to see the difference in the jumpshots between that, and the video above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLmn3MftMm8

At the 1:32 mark, he shoots a three. That form looks better. It actually looks Boris Diaw's with the release. They should work on doing that, instead of "reconstructing" his jumper. You don't want him to be the next Ben Simmons, without Ben Simmons' great start to his career, or his athleticism.

[rankingtear]

He can’t shoot. He is not a useful NBA basketball player.

You think Aaron Gordon can?

[z0sa]

The billing said he could guard positions 1-5, he was a defensive pest, and last year he seemed to be a potential threat offensively.. I simply don't see any of it.. Seldom makes defensive plays outside of rebounds, hasn't really gotten under people's skin this year, and seems to screw up every good looking offensive opportunity and just can't finish.. I'm not sure what his strength is at this point

Sochan would be a solid bench player. He's not a starter in today's NBA. The 80s, maybe even 90's, sure. Today, what a joke.

[JeffDuncan]

You think …


Sochan does not shoot well enough to be a useful NBA basketball player.

[bdictjames]

Sochan does not shoot well enough to be a useful NBA basketball player.
Sochan's jumpshot actually looked better out of Baylor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLmn3MftMm8

It starts at the 1:32 mark. His shot reminds me of Robert Horry's. If he can go back to that shot, instead of the abominable shot he is using today, I think he would a more effective, natural, and explosive NBA player.

[Knoxxx]

Sochan does not shoot well enough to be a useful NBA basketball player.

That's mostly our whole team you are describing.

[rankingtear]

Sochan does not shoot well enough to be a useful NBA basketball player.

They said the same thing about Aaron Gordon.

[JeffDuncan]

They said…


Sochan still doesn’t shoot well enough to be a useful NBA player. And after a few more minutes go by, he still won’t.

[TheChillFactor]

This isn’t about his shooting percentage. Hes fucking terrible, has no plan and just dribbles into people and throws up bs.

Comparing him to rookie Manu is fucking laughable. Rookie Manu was a key piece to a title team. These idiot misses back to back bunnies and then rolls on the floor.

[rankingtear]

Sochan still doesn’t shoot well enough to be a useful NBA player. And after a few more minutes go by, he still won’t.

You are dead wrong.

[BatManu20]

I've been pretty critical of Sochan on here this season, and he'll obviously never be Manu. But these comparisons are dumb to begin with. Manu was a 25 year-old Rookie with 7 years of professional playing experience in Argentina and Europe under his belt when he got here. Sochan is still only 20 years old in his 2nd year out of college. Still way too early to give up on him. His lack of shooting definitely but the same can be said for the rest of the guys on this roster. He's shown considerable strides in that department already and if he can continue to improve on that, he definitely has a role in this league imo. I think getting a true PG/play-maker on this team would also result in a reduced role offensively for him, which would also help. So much of his offense is forced cause we have little-to-no playmakers on this team. I'll reserve my judgement for him after next season tbh. But aside from some really dumb plays from here and there, I think he's okay for now.

[rascal]

I've been pretty critical of Sochan on here this season, and he'll obviously never be Manu. But these comparisons are dumb to begin with. Manu was a 25 year-old Rookie with 7 years of professional playing experience in Argentina and Europe under his belt when he got here. Sochan is still only 20 years old in his 2nd year out of college. Still way too early to give up on him. His lack of shooting definitely but the same can be said for the rest of the guys on this roster. He's shown considerable strides in that department already and if he can continue to improve on that, he definitely has a role in this league imo. I think getting a true PG/play-maker on this team would also result in a reduced role offensively for him, which would also help. So much of his offense is forced cause we have little-to-no playmakers on this team. I'll reserve my judgement for him after next season tbh. But aside from some really dumb plays from here and there, I think he's okay for now.

Sochan's OK if you want to win fewer than 20 games.

He's a big reason the team has the record they have. He has no business as a starter getting starter's minutes.

He also hasn't improved his shooting since last year, almost identical stats.

[Kurgan]

I don't know how he got the reputation as a defensive specialist because I don't really see it. Every time I tune in to the Spurs, I see him getting torched by his defensive assignment. And then you have fuckers on here and Spur reddit wanting to compare him to rookie/sophomore Kawhi...someone who actually did lock down his opponents.

EPM doesn't really grade him as an elite defender either. He's a +0.2 on defense which has him around 152nd in the NBA...below even guys who are considered weak defenders like Sengun. Compare that to Victor who's +3.4(4th in the entire league). What's worse is his putrid offense which makes him an overall net negative player.

[mo7888]

It'd probably be unpopular, but I'd offer Sochan + a couple 2nd's to indy for Jarace Walker. Walker doesn't seem like a fit there...

[The Truth #6]

It'd probably be unpopular, but I'd offer Sochan + a couple 2nd's to indy for Jarace Walker. Walker doesn't seem like a fit there...

Would they take Keldon instead? Asking for a friend.

Sheeeet, I'd do Keldon plus Branham. Don't they love offensive players?

[Pauleta14]

I don't know how he got the reputation as a defensive specialist because I don't really see it. Every time I tune in to the Spurs, I see him getting torched by his defensive assignment. And then you have fuckers on here and Spur reddit wanting to compare him to rookie/sophomore Kawhi...someone who actually did lock down his opponents.

EPM doesn't really grade him as an elite defender either. He's a +0.2 on defense which has him around 152nd in the NBA...below even guys who are considered weak defenders like Sengun. Compare that to Victor who's +3.4(4th in the entire league). What's worse is his putrid offense which makes him an overall net negative player.

He has length vs guards, can be a pest with his stamina and agressive on the boards. He’s just not very regular and sometimes when some players have a bad game like Luka a few days ago, many are too quick to attribute it to Sochan’s defense.

imo he’s worth the wait and development at least one more season, who knows, we’ve seen surprising improvements in the past, but he can’t be a starter and shooting that much (12 yesterday!) with that many offensive limitations.

[The Truth #6]

Last night he missed a lot of point blank layups. To me, those are shots everyone has to take. But yeah, his shooting was awful. I'd say he avoided taking more shots that were given to him. He may be already be getting the Giddey Treatment.

[LeBowen]

It'd probably be unpopular, but I'd offer Sochan + a couple 2nd's to indy for Jarace Walker. Walker doesn't seem like a fit there...

I'd offer Sochan and a first for Naz Reid. Hell, even two weaker firsts, he'd be well worth it.
He should be the #1 target in the summer because he's a perfect fit regardless of how PATFO wants to build around Wemby.

Minnesota has $180M guaranteed payroll for the next season with McDaniels and Edwards contracts kicking in and Naz will be on an expiring deal.
They have no way of offering him an extension.

Since KAT went down, he's at 19ppg in 28 minutes, 43% from 3pt at 7 attempts per game. And those numbers are in line for what he's been doing all season long.
He's a very good defender, both man and team. His passing instincts are also way better than Jeremy's and he's got more size. He can easily play the backup C if needed.

He'll definitely want a starting role, he's turning 25 before the next season starts and I don't see a single legitimate concern in his game.
Wemby, Naz, Barlow/Bassey and our bigs rotation is sorted for the foreseeable future.

I'd be legitimately upset if he goes anywhere else because Spurs are a perfect fit and he'd get the well deserved starting role.
And it would barely impact our stash of assets.

[Pauleta14]

Last night he missed a lot of point blank layups. To me, those are shots everyone has to take. But yeah, his shooting was awful. I'd say he avoided taking more shots that were given to him. He may be already be getting the Giddey Treatment.

He’s 100% in every team’s scouting reports before each game.

It seems the game still hasn’t slowed down for him, he’s still too often in reaction, focused on his plan A and lost when looking for plan B
he’s still only 20 so it’ll get better but he needs to have a decent shot otherwise he’ll always be a liability despite what he can bring on defense

[Pauleta14]

I'd offer Sochan and a first for Naz Reid. Hell, even two weaker firsts, he'd be well worth it.
He should be the #1 target in the summer because he's a perfect fit regardless of how PATFO wants to build around Wemby.

Minnesota has $180M guaranteed payroll for the next season with McDaniels and Edwards contracts kicking in and Naz will be on an expiring deal.
They have no way of offering him an extension.

Since KAT went down, he's at 19ppg in 28 minutes, 43% from 3pt at 7 attempts per game. And those numbers are in line for what he's been doing all season long.
He's a very good defender, both man and team. His passing instincts are also way better than Jeremy's and he's got more size. He can easily play the backup C if needed.

He'll definitely want a starting role, he's turning 25 before the next season starts and I don't see a single legitimate concern in his game.
Wemby, Naz, Barlow/Bassey and our bigs rotation is sorted for the foreseeable future.

I'd be legitimately upset if he goes anywhere else because Spurs are a perfect fit and he'd get the well deserved starting role.
And it would barely impact our stash of assets.

Naz Reid is going to be THE target for every contender next summer, he’s having a great season. I could see the wolves making sacrifices to keep him as well

That would be a dream tbh

[LeBowen]

Naz Reid is going to be THE target for every contender next summer, he’s having a great season. I could see the wolves making sacrifices to keep him as well

That would be a dream tbh

Contenders don't have assets and cap space.
He's going to want to sign an extension the next summer, very few teams can offer 20-25M a year that's his fair value.
And a lot of contenders don't need a PF.
It would be between us an OKC, most likely.

[Pauleta14]

Contenders don't have assets and cap space.
He's going to want to sign an extension the next summer, very few teams can offer 20-25M a year that's his fair value.
And a lot of contenders don't need a PF.
It would be between us an OKC, most likely.

Let’s hope then

Reid and/or Herb Jones would amazing

[mo7888]

I'd offer Sochan and a first for Naz Reid. Hell, even two weaker firsts, he'd be well worth it.
He should be the #1 target in the summer because he's a perfect fit regardless of how PATFO wants to build around Wemby.

Minnesota has $180M guaranteed payroll for the next season with McDaniels and Edwards contracts kicking in and Naz will be on an expiring deal.
They have no way of offering him an extension.

Since KAT went down, he's at 19ppg in 28 minutes, 43% from 3pt at 7 attempts per game. And those numbers are in line for what he's been doing all season long.
He's a very good defender, both man and team. His passing instincts are also way better than Jeremy's and he's got more size. He can easily play the backup C if needed.

He'll definitely want a starting role, he's turning 25 before the next season starts and I don't see a single legitimate concern in his game.
Wemby, Naz, Barlow/Bassey and our bigs rotation is sorted for the foreseeable future.

I'd be legitimately upset if he goes anywhere else because Spurs are a perfect fit and he'd get the well deserved starting role.
And it would barely impact our stash of assets.

Reid should be a hot commodity in the trade market. I'd love him here..

[Knoxxx]

Naz Reid is going to be THE target for every contender next summer, he’s having a great season. I could see the wolves making sacrifices to keep him as well

That would be a dream tbh

i like!!!!

Edit, oops sorry I didn't mean to quote you yet again, I just happened to clicked on the best looking post in the discussion LOL.

[TD 21]

:lmao At the apologists grasping at straws in a desperate attempt to defend this scrub.



I'd offer Sochan and a first for Naz Reid. Hell, even two weaker firsts, he'd be well worth it.
He should be the #1 target in the summer because he's a perfect fit regardless of how PATFO wants to build around Wemby.

Minnesota has $180M guaranteed payroll for the next season with McDaniels and Edwards contracts kicking in and Naz will be on an expiring deal.
They have no way of offering him an extension.

Since KAT went down, he's at 19ppg in 28 minutes, 43% from 3pt at 7 attempts per game. And those numbers are in line for what he's been doing all season long.
He's a very good defender, both man and team. His passing instincts are also way better than Jeremy's and he's got more size. He can easily play the backup C if needed.

He'll definitely want a starting role, he's turning 25 before the next season starts and I don't see a single legitimate concern in his game.
Wemby, Naz, Barlow/Bassey and our bigs rotation is sorted for the foreseeable future.

I'd be legitimately upset if he goes anywhere else because Spurs are a perfect fit and he'd get the well deserved starting role.
And it would barely impact our stash of assets.

One "good" 1st should do it. Besides, as bad as Sochan is, we all know they're not trading him. Turning him into the third big (and by extension, Collins the fourth) should be high on the agenda this off season though.

Reid is about as good a theoretical fit next to Wembanyama as exists in the league.

Unfortunately, you're right that he'd be a perfect fit for the Thunder too, who can obviously outbid the Spurs.

Fortunately, they're almost as conservative as the Spurs and because they're already better than the Timberwolves, if the offers were even close, the Spurs would probably win out.