Spurs Select F Jeremy Sochan with the 9th Pick in the 2022 NBA Draft

[Obstructed_View]

I was looking for video of the game, this is just a virtual boxscore.
Yeah sorry. Didn't realize what that was. I'm back on my pirate feed with no sound.

[ace3g]

https://assets.fiba.basketball/image/upload/w_1024,c_fill/q_auto/f_auto/qdolohq8onq0s0fqnosw

[Obstructed_View]

https://www.nba.com/watch/event/france-vs-turkey

Looking forward to that one.

[Obstructed_View]

Polska cut it to eight. Gordon has unwound the team with his crying.

[Pauleta14]

Looking forward to that one.

You have that as well

https://www.vipleague.pm/basketball-sports-stream

[heyheymymy]

hook up the link my brahs

[Obstructed_View]

Poland's offense is so pitifully bad. I have no idea how they have stayed in this game.

[Mal]

Poland's offense is so pitifully bad. I have no idea how they have stayed in this game.

It was expected, that only chance for Poland was for Bahama to struggle shooting.

[Obstructed_View]

Jeremy on the bench in crunch time.

[Mal]

Jeremy on the bench in crunch time.

It was -17, 2nd unit pull this one close, so coach kept them in. Ponitka and Balcerowski are also sitting with game tommorow.

[Mal]

Sochan played exactly what should be expected of him, apart from 6 TO.

Watch closely on VJ Edgecombe jr for 2025, with all hype around top 3, he could be a steal with 4-6 pick

[Ignazzz]

Great player Edge Jr. Best Player in Last night win with Finland. 20 pts and solid assists

[R. DeMurre]

That is one unnatural looking shot. Still better than kidd gilchrist.



I don't think his shot will ever be good. He might develop it to a level where he's not treated like Ben Simmons



:lol I'm opening up a new bottle of mezcal right now, despite the hour. I think I need a drink. Wish I could pour one each for you guys too.

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvT5-OswIOs

[spurraider21]

:lmao that video opens with "san antonio superstar, sochan"

[rjv]

It was -17, 2nd unit pull this one close, so coach kept them in. Ponitka and Balcerowski are also sitting with game tommorow.

stop f'ing up the ST narrative.

[Ariel]

He’s great at collecting checks,though. I’d love to be a fly on the wall of his next contract negotiations when he’s offered like $65/4years.
Poor guy, how is he going to "feed his family" on just 16M a year? Might have to ask Latrell Spreewell for advice.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/JSochanMuse/status/1808556861010104778

https://x.com/SpursCulture/status/1808572627495043105

[Uriel]

https://x.com/SpursCulture/status/1808572627495043105
This is why we drafted Sochan. Look how he moves his feet on the perimeter, hounding the smaller guard with his size and length. And that’s your power forward doing this.

[ace3g]

Need translation of this video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAfd_TycVFw

Jeremy Sochan on:
-The technique/mechanics of your throw.
- Physical preparation after surgery.
- About Miro Little from the Finnish national team, with whom he has been friends for years.

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft6xdLp7QA4

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbpdkF8ODoY

[ace3g]

Poland plays Finland tomorrow:

DATE

Thursday, July 4, 2024, 01:30 PM

Poland vs Finland - Group Phase - FIBA Olympic Qualifying Tournament 2024 Valencia, Spain | FIBA.basketball (https://www.fiba.basketball/en/events/fiba-olympic-qualifying-tournament-2024-valencia-spain/games/121012-POL-FIN)

[Dejounte]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbpdkF8ODoY

Not bad. He hasn’t abandoned his on ball handling and scoring… seems like his handle has approved. Hes not just hanging out in the paint, which all signs towards the end of last season pointed to him strictly being an offense-less power forward. Instead of giving up, he’s still going at it. We definitely might see a leap from him in his third year.

[Dejounte]

In a hypothetical Markkanen trade, Sochan gets moved to the bench unless his perimeter skills vastly improve, in which case he’d be able to handle being the starting small forward. But if not, then he can be that super bench guy that can play 3-4-5. He’d soap up all the minutes just by being that versatile.

this is under the assumption he doesn’t have to be let go in a Markkanen trade… he’s certainly a nice guy to keep if we want to compete next year. That’s a lot of edge and grit that will be very useful in the playoffs.

[spursparker9]

Sochan's 3 point shot is as slow as Slow-Mo...:lol

[heyheymymy]

Damm Sochan looks great in that highlight clip. Looks like he's bulked up a little bit too. But moving very fluidly with the ball. Maybe the verdict isn't in yet on that PG experiment.

The shot release on the 3 pointer actually somehow doesn't look as bad in real time. Looks like some development all around for Sochan.

[RC_Drunkford]

In a hypothetical Markkanen trade, Sochan gets moved to the bench unless his perimeter skills vastly improve, in which case he’d be able to handle being the starting small forward. But if not, then he can be that super bench guy that can play 3-4-5. He’d soap up all the minutes just by being that versatile.

this is under the assumption he doesn’t have to be let go in a Markkanen trade… he’s certainly a nice guy to keep if we want to compete next year. That’s a lot of edge and grit that will be very useful in the playoffs.

I wouldn't trade a top 10 pick before his 3rd year. That's where the biggest jump happens and we all know he's got huge potential.


Sochan's 3 point shot is as slow as Slow-Mo...:lol

doesn't really matter as long as it goes in. He can always speed it up once it's efficient enough. That 3 he made looked really good, perfect spin on the ball.

[spurraider21]

In a hypothetical Markkanen trade, Sochan gets moved to the bench unless his perimeter skills vastly improve, in which case he’d be able to handle being the starting small forward. But if not, then he can be that super bench guy that can play 3-4-5. He’d soap up all the minutes just by being that versatile.

this is under the assumption he doesn’t have to be let go in a Markkanen trade… he’s certainly a nice guy to keep if we want to compete next year. That’s a lot of edge and grit that will be very useful in the playoffs.
In a hypothetical Lauri trade i think he moves to Utah, not our bench

[Raven]

it's starting :hungry:

[GB20]

it's starting :hungry:
Do you have a link for this game?

[ace3g]

Link to stats

Poland vs Finland - Group Phase - FIBA Olympic Qualifying Tournament 2024 Valencia, Spain | FIBA.basketball (https://www.fiba.basketball/en/events/fiba-olympic-qualifying-tournament-2024-valencia-spain/games/121012-POL-FIN#playByPlay)

[Raven]

Do you have a link for this game?
https://one.mystreamnetwork.site/embed/a1/player/110.php

[Ignazzz]

Nice 3 from Sochan.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/FIBA/status/1808944288601981403

[Degoat]

https://x.com/FIBA/status/1808944288601981403

Sochans shot looked pretty good there tbh

[Raven]

Sochans shot looked pretty good there tbh

the legs aren't quite underneath him, they aren't really transferring the energy properly. But the curve was nice

[Raven]

Good game from sochan, so far. Clearly has a huge advantage in the paint, they clearly can't guard him when he is aggressive in penetration. Seems to get more assertive with time, at the start of the game he was just being the defender he usually is. Missed plenty of free throws and and-1s, but i'll take it.

[Mr. Body]

Sochans shot looked pretty good there tbh

Still that hitch, but it's smoother.

[Mr. Body]

Good game from sochan, so far. Clearly has a huge advantage in the paint, they clearly can't guard him when he is aggressive in penetration. Seems to get more assertive with time, at the start of the game he was just being the defender he usually is. Missed plenty of free throws and and-1s, but i'll take it.

I look forward to more from him as a PF/wing, where his speed advantage is high against players his size and bigger. Castle should also allow him to be more disruptive as a defender. I'm not sure what his ceiling is as a perimeter threat, it may never really get there, but he's a really good player.

[RC_Drunkford]

Jeremy is dominating out there

[Raven]

they are actively looking for him now

[BackHome]

I really think that playing in these games and having the remaining offseason and camp focusing on his true position PF is going to allow him to make a nice jump.

[Ignazzz]

Nice coast to coast. Nice reverse points.

[DAF86]

Sochans shot looked pretty good there tbh

You are just saying this because it was nothing but net, but the shot looked horrible. Ugly two timed shot. I don't care how it look though, as long as it goes in.

[RC_Drunkford]

Apparently Poland has 22 more freethrows than Finland. The announcer said that's unbelievable.

[Mal]

Apparently Poland has 22 more freethrows than Finland. The announcer said that's unbelievable.

You have got atheltic team, that drives to basket, against shooters spreading the floor. Nothing outrigeous

[RC_Drunkford]

You have got atheltic team, that drives to basket, against shooters spreading the floor. Nothing outrigeous

the referees are highly questionable in this game tbh. There's one ref saying it's Poland's ball and the other ref saying it's Finland's. This happened a bunch of time in this game.

[Mal]

the referees are highly questionable in this game tbh. There's one ref saying it's Poland's ball and the other ref saying it's Finland's. This happened a bunch of time in this game.

But they are not favouring any side. They are just bad overall

[LeBowen]

Great clutch steal, but these are two tragic teams, tbh.

[ace3g]

Poland was up 89-81 in the 4th...

[Mal]

Poland was up 89-81 in the 4th...

They ended with 88 pts, so not really

[drpill]

Twice Jeremy's teammates denied him a rebound that could have clinched the game. I hope he feels the sting of that and never does it to Wemby again tbh.

[DAF86]

What's Jeremy's statline?

[Raven]

Poland somehow found the way to lose despite the megachad steal from sochan in the last minute...

[ace3g]

They ended with 88 pts, so not really

Yeah, had score wrong; they were up 80-70 with 7:12 left in the 4th.

[Raven]

What's Jeremy's statline?

20 points 7/11 1-1 from 3 5/8 ft 8 reb 3 ast 3stl 1 blk 1 to

[ace3g]

What's Jeremy's statline?

20 pts / 8 boards / 3 assists / 3 stls / 1 blk / 1 TO

[Mal]

What's Jeremy's statline?

20pts 8 rbs 3as 3st 1bs 1to 5/8 ft. Solid game offensively and defensively, but he is not the alpha in this team, so this loss is not on him

[DAF86]

Despite not being the most developed offensive player out there, Jeremy can put up pts, tbh.

[RC_Drunkford]

Poland choked away the Olympics

[taps]

Brutal they’re out just like that. Can’t blame Jerm though, 4 stocks and 20 & 8 is super impressive in international play.

Come back to The Rock my friend!

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJCs8_E-ipg

[BackHome]

That really sucks I think he could have made a lot of growth playing a few more games with Poland

[C-Dub]

With Sochan's new hair do, at 1st glance he looks a lot like ex nba player Michael
Beasley.

[mystargtr34]

Would have been great to see Sochan in the Olympics for the reps and experience but even if they beat Finland they probably losing to Spain in the next game anyway.

[Pauleta14]

Would have been great to see Sochan in the Olympics for the reps and experience but even if they beat Finland they probably losing to Spain in the next game anyway.

He needs thousands of reps he wouldn't get if quslified, I'd rather him come bck and work in SA

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmBthmILodM

[TheChillFactor]

its going to be year 3 for this guy.

if he shows up in October with that hitch in his shot, he's gotta go.

i love him but his shot should be fixed by now, or at least better than how it currently looks.

[CGD]

Is the side spin gone though? That would be a major win even if the trade off is this new hitch. I think they can iron the latter out over time.

[CGD]

its going to be year 3 for this guy.

if he shows up in October with that hitch in his shot, he's gotta go.

i love him but his shot should be fixed by now, or at least better than how it currently looks.

Im less worried about the hitch than I am the nasty side spin.

And LOL, no they’re not moving on from him. They love want he brings on the defensive end of the floor.

[couchman]

Sochan’s defense was starting to sneak into elite territory in the last six weeks of the season last year, including some gems against guys like SGA.
If he can just sort out a league avg 3pt shot he will be a VERY valuable starter level role player.
I’m glad they’re finally tweaking his form. Should have done this two years ago but sure.. better late than never.
I have concerns about Castle, but the upside excitement with Sochan, Wemby, and Castle is a team that can defend the heck out of anyone at all three levels and switch at any position.
I don’t t think the Spurs would consider moving Sochan this summer unless they get an unbelievable offer.

[BackHome]

Yeah, people wanting to get rid of him is just crazy talk it’s not like it was his decision to suddenly be told in off season he is going to be moved to PG. I think that having a full off season just to focus on his real role at PF is going to show his improvement and I think him and Castle and Wemby are going to be a nightmare for other teams offense this upcoming season

[Raven]

I still don't like the idea of him being a pf, building him as a pg was easily the correct decision, for him as a player. Not for the spurs, maybe, but for his skillset absolutely. He should model his game to lebron's not to tim duuncan's.

[rascal]

Sochan doesn't always work on defense and doesn't always put in good effort. Castle will be a good influence on Sochan even as a rookie.

[spurraider21]

good to see him play well in an increased role on this stage

[BackHome]

I still don't like the idea of him being a pf, building him as a pg was easily the correct decision, for him as a player. Not for the spurs, maybe, but for his skillset absolutely. He should model his game to lebron's not to tim duuncan's.

I like Sochan but his future is never going to be a starting PG in the NBA - if he can fix his shooting I personally would not mind to see how he would fit as a SF as I think he has the dexterity to handle most SF in the league.

[J_Paco]

https://x.com/JSochanMuse/status/1808556861010104778

https://x.com/SpursCulture/status/1808572627495043105


This is why we drafted Sochan. Look how he moves his feet on the perimeter, hounding the smaller guard with his size and length. And that’s your power forward doing this.

Gonna be fun seeing Sochan and Castle hassle opposing guards/wings.


I still don't like the idea of him being a pf, building him as a pg was easily the correct decision, for him as a player. Not for the spurs, maybe, but for his skillset absolutely. He should model his game to lebron's not to tim duuncan's.

Jeremy is practically the size of an average starting PF in 2024. Trying to pigeonhole him to a position he will likely never be suited for was a huge mistake.

It set the team back months and made everyone look terrible, IMO.

He completely lacks LeBron's (or even a Ben Simmons') feel and vision to ever be suited for a 'Point - Forward' type role.

Jeremy needs to continue to improve off-ball offensive and with his perimeter jumper, but I'm definitely not worried about him banging with similar sizes guys.

[mystargtr34]

To me Jeremy’s best/most impactful position on a playoff team will be as a big SF playing next to another equally sized or slightly bigger wing at the 4. If Jeremy is your second biggest player in the SL then you’re always going to be a bit undersized and giving up second chance points.

Obviously his shooting is going to be his swing skill regardless of whether he’s a 3 or a 4.

[spurraider21]

Could get away with Sochan as the nominal 3 if your 4 is markkanen

[rankingtear]

To me Jeremy’s best/most impactful position on a playoff team will be as a big SF playing next to another equally sized or slightly bigger wing at the 4. If Jeremy is your second biggest player in the SL then you’re always going to be a bit undersized and giving up second chance points.

Obviously his shooting is going to be his swing skill regardless of whether he’s a 3 or a 4.

Sochan is the same size as the last 2 championship 4 man, why is this a thing.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2wT9dyhlRI

[mystargtr34]

Sochan is the same size as the last 2 championship 4 man, why is this a thing.

Yeah I’ll give you Jayson Tatum he’s a 3/4 but that was a stacked Celtics team with solid rebounding and defenders 1 through 5.

The other 4’s on the NBA champions since 2015 were Aaron Gordon, Draymond, Giannis, AD, Kevin Love.

Draymond and Aaron Gordon may only be 6’7 or 6’8 but they play way bigger and tougher than Sochan. That’s not a knock on Jeremy but he’s closer to soft than he is tough when it comes to playing in the paint.

[rankingtear]

Yeah I’ll give you Jayson Tatum he’s a 3/4 but that was a stacked Celtics team with solid rebounding and defenders 1 through 5.

The other 4’s on the NBA champions since 2015 were Aaron Gordon, Draymond, Giannis, AD, Kevin Love.

Draymond and Aaron Gordon may only be 6’7 or 6’8 but they play way bigger and tougher than Sochan. That’s not a knock on Jeremy but he’s closer to soft than he is tough when it comes to playing in the paint.

Your comparing his toughness to grown ass men. AD and Giannis are top 75 all time players, how can you replicate that. GSW are closing finals game with 6'6 Igoudala, MIL with 6'5 PJ Tucker, PHX with 6'6 Jae Crowder, MIA with 6'6 Jae Crowder, MIA with 6'7 Jimmy Butler, DAL with 6'7 PJ Washington. Doesn't this prove that you need defensive versatility more than size at the 4 if you want to reach the finals.

[SpursBills]

Let's see what this year brings.

33-34% on 3-4 3's per game, ~75-80% from the line would be progress in his age 21 season.

Improved ball-handling and awareness of when to attack would be good

Hopefully he becomes a -1 to net neutral player by this season with positive defense and negative offense

His defensive pairing with Castle is really nice - Castle's stronger than most guys his size and built to cover the SGA/Ant types, while Sochan's faster than most guys his size and built to cover the Luka/Kawhi types. In 1-2 years, I expect Castle to be able to eat Cade's lunch defensively (same size, no speed/size/strength advantage, deliberate style, non-elite shotmaker). I expect Sochan to shut down Scottie Barnes (same size, no speed/strength/size advantage, non-elite shotmaker) every time they match up unless Barnes makes a huge leap. Will be interesting to see if waterbug PGs like Maxey, Fox, or *Dillingham* down the road give the team trouble - interestingly, Vassell may be your best option here given his length and slighter frame.

If he continues to improve on his current trajectory, looking for 13/7/3 on 48/33/78 and great defense, I think the Toppin extension is reasonable - Avdija is underpaid for what he brings but Sochan has a similar career trajectory so far, scale that extension for a rising cap and you have something close to Toppin's contract.

Otherwise if he stagnates, then probably just Avdija's extension as a situational defender with "potential"

[LeBowen]

As much as I hate Lebron, his two points aren't two points is one of the best basketball one-liners ever.

Shooting percentages don't matter out of context. As long as Jeremy is dared to shoot and noone is bothering to guard him beyond the 3pt line, he's a negative on offense.
We'll have enough creation and paint presence, so his lack of spacing will just hurt the team, no matter how good on defense he becomes.
Just look how useless bad shooters were in these playoffs, players that are a way bigger threat than Jeremy as of now.

Wrote about it multiple times, but what concerns me even more is his inside game. He is in no way reliable from anywhere on the court. His shot chart is just tragic.
Without dunks, which are almost all uncontested since he's not a great vertical athlete, he's barely over 50% in restricted area. That's including uncontested layups. That's just horrible.
He doesn't have to become a great shooter, but as long as he's not reliable in the paint, he won't be a factor in the playoffs.
Teams usually hide their worst defenders on bad scorers and if Jeremy can't consistenly punish those, he's of no use to us in close games.

Then we add Castle into the equation. Our new project, player with two-way start potential, but without a reliable shot.
If you ask me, it's not even up for discussion who should be the priority. Castle should be put in optimal situations and lineups, with Jeremy coming off the bench and proving he can actually become a contributor on offense.

I somewhat feel bad for Jeremy because Pop almost completely ruined him with point guard experiment, but that was his golden opportunity to be more useful. As a non-shooting forward in today's league, he won't get very far.
We were a 22 win team and he was our worst offensive player, which says a lot.
If he looked like your average basketball player and not a reincarnation of Rodman, people would be way lower on him.

Obviously it would be dumb to write off a 21 year old, but his shot looks too far gone to ever develop.
I wouldn't offer him more than 50/4 extension if he doesn't make a big leap this season.

[Obstructed_View]

That new hitch in his shot is clearly something he has been taught. It's like an exaggerated step to train his muscle memory. Someone said they saw his spin going sideways but I couldn't see it. As evidenced by his free throws, he seems to respond well to coaching. This year should be interesting.

[BackHome]

Have to disagree about Socahn you need him to play as much as possible the same you need all the starters playing together as much as possible. Every player needs things they need to work on as an individual but also as a team ie. need to work on there team offense/defense. The thing with Castle is that he is such a smart player and good passer for players like Sochan and Wemby who love to run he is going to find them for easy lobs and buckets.

[z0sa]

As much as I hate Lebron, his two points aren't two points is one of the best basketball one-liners ever.

Shooting percentages don't matter out of context. As long as Jeremy is dared to shoot and noone is bothering to guard him beyond the 3pt line, he's a negative on offense.
We'll have enough creation and paint presence, so his lack of spacing will just hurt the team, no matter how good on defense he becomes.
Just look how useless bad shooters were in these playoffs, players that are a way bigger threat than Jeremy as of now.

Wrote about it multiple times, but what concerns me even more is his inside game. He is in no way reliable from anywhere on the court. His shot chart is just tragic.
Without dunks, which are almost all uncontested since he's not a great vertical athlete, he's barely over 50% in restricted area. That's including uncontested layups. That's just horrible.
He doesn't have to become a great shooter, but as long as he's not reliable in the paint, he won't be a factor in the playoffs.
Teams usually hide their worst defenders on bad scorers and if Jeremy can't consistenly punish those, he's of no use to us in close games.

Then we add Castle into the equation. Our new project, player with two-way start potential, but without a reliable shot.
If you ask me, it's not even up for discussion who should be the priority. Castle should be put in optimal situations and lineups, with Jeremy coming off the bench and proving he can actually become a contributor on offense.

I somewhat feel bad for Jeremy because Pop almost completely ruined him with point guard experiment, but that was his golden opportunity to be more useful. As a non-shooting forward in today's league, he won't get very far.
We were a 22 win team and he was our worst offensive player, which says a lot.
If he looked like your average basketball player and not a reincarnation of Rodman, people would be way lower on him.

Obviously it would be dumb to write off a 21 year old, but his shot looks too far gone to ever develop.
I wouldn't offer him more than 50/4 extension if he doesn't make a big leap this season.

Yeah, don't understand why people are so obsessed with this guy who shot 43%. It's not just his three, it's his offense, period. He's not even average on offense, and it will absolutely be YEARS until he grows into a player who is.

I'd trade him in a second if that's what Ainge wants for Lauri in terms of player(s) along with pick(s). He sucks and FROZE VICTOR OUT multiple times. Not saying it was on purpose, he's just low iq on offense. People will go to their graves defending this guy who would have Wemby WIDE ASS OPEN and pass it literally right through his arms to a guy like Branham on the 3 point line. I hated it, and I'm far from convinced he won't be doing the same bullshit for many years if we hold on to him.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/JeremySochan/status/1810393673240342598

[scott]

As much as I hate Lebron, his two points aren't two points is one of the best basketball one-liners ever.

Shooting percentages don't matter out of context. As long as Jeremy is dared to shoot and noone is bothering to guard him beyond the 3pt line, he's a negative on offense.
We'll have enough creation and paint presence, so his lack of spacing will just hurt the team, no matter how good on defense he becomes.
Just look how useless bad shooters were in these playoffs, players that are a way bigger threat than Jeremy as of now.

Wrote about it multiple times, but what concerns me even more is his inside game. He is in no way reliable from anywhere on the court. His shot chart is just tragic.
Without dunks, which are almost all uncontested since he's not a great vertical athlete, he's barely over 50% in restricted area. That's including uncontested layups. That's just horrible.
He doesn't have to become a great shooter, but as long as he's not reliable in the paint, he won't be a factor in the playoffs.
Teams usually hide their worst defenders on bad scorers and if Jeremy can't consistenly punish those, he's of no use to us in close games.

Then we add Castle into the equation. Our new project, player with two-way start potential, but without a reliable shot.
If you ask me, it's not even up for discussion who should be the priority. Castle should be put in optimal situations and lineups, with Jeremy coming off the bench and proving he can actually become a contributor on offense.

I somewhat feel bad for Jeremy because Pop almost completely ruined him with point guard experiment, but that was his golden opportunity to be more useful. As a non-shooting forward in today's league, he won't get very far.
We were a 22 win team and he was our worst offensive player, which says a lot.
If he looked like your average basketball player and not a reincarnation of Rodman, people would be way lower on him.

Obviously it would be dumb to write off a 21 year old, but his shot looks too far gone to ever develop.
I wouldn't offer him more than 50/4 extension if he doesn't make a big leap this season.

Great write-up, LeBowen. This is one of the unintended consequences of having a Wemby on your team - the amount of patience for projects like Sochan gets reduced. We cannot afford to waste years of Wemby's career relying on the hope that some project works out. It's one thing to have a project that you develop in ways that don't hurt the team (like as a bench rotation player), but 30 minutes a game for a guy with the problems you just outlined holds back the team. Maybe that's okay for one more year if we are planning on just "seeing what we have" again, but once we want to be a serious team we can't afford major minutes to pet projects anymore.

[ace3g]

C9k49q2t87U

[ace3g]

C_DAU-xowUs

[Spursfanfromafar]

The hitch in sochan's shooting motion seems to be gone but it is still a relatively slow release. I expect a better 3p % this year. 33%? On middling attempts?

[heyheymymy]

Still really excited about Sochan's potential.

[Pauleta14]

The hitch in sochan's shooting motion seems to be gone but it is still a relatively slow release. I expect a better 3p % this year. 33%? On middling attempts?

I expect him to naturally be a better shooter but it's not the area I'm waiting the most on clear progressions.

I want to see better court vision, passing, awareness (less head down) and sustained efforts (not quitting on plays like he does too often).

Those are even more important than his 3pts % imo

[John B]

If he could be a 3 and D lockdown defender like Bruce Bowen it would be great. That’s all I’m asking right now. Sure Pop will have him push the ball some, be a connector like everyone. I’m curious what the starting line up will be. I think Barnes play the 4, while Sochan the 3. But I really want our #4 pick play the starting 3 from the get go and have a chance at ROY. I know Castle will share PG duties when CP(?) sits. I suspect eventually Castle starts at PG when CP(?) leaves. I’m hoping Sochan eventually plays the lockdown Bruce Bowen role (although Pop tried to develop him like Bobo’s handles and passing). While PATFO searches the future long term PF player (most of us hoping it was Markkanen).

[KobesAchilles]

I don’t want Sochan to be an on-ball player at all. If he’s going to make it in the league it’s going to be as an off-ball player. He shouldn’t be initiating any offense. He’s horrid at it. He needs to learn how to move without the ball, how to set hard picks to free up actual shooters, how to be in position to rebound, and how to cut when Wemby is doubled.

The only offense he really needs to focus on as far as initiating it is the middle of the lane, find the open shooter/man pass. That’s it. We need Tiago and Oberto to teach him how to actually play basketball. If he can become a hybrid of them then he will have a very long and fruitful career

[rankingtear]

Sochan has more off-ball gravity than most of you think. The true negative offense guys are those who are stationary shooters who can't attack closeouts.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I expect him to naturally be a better shooter but it's not the area I'm waiting the most on clear progressions.

I want to see better court vision, passing, awareness (less head down) and sustained efforts (not quitting on plays like he does too often).

Those are even more important than his 3pts % imo

I agree that he needs to improve in those areas. But I feel he went on to get better in those areas as the season went by, last year. But his shooting was still hideous. And the hitch he displayed while playing for Poland was awful. So, I am hoping that the new video showing his hitch to be gone, is something to look forward to. And if he can be a passable shooter, then his improving defense, decent playmaking and rebounding could make him a useful starter and not a liability.

[LeBowen]

Sochan has more off-ball gravity than most of you think.

:lmao

You got to be trolling.
How can a player who's being dared to shoot every time he gets the ball have gravity?
He only has gravity when he gets the ball near the paint with a small guard on him. In every other situation, the opposing teams wants him to be the guy shooting or even driving.
What he needs to improve on is taking better advantage of those situations when he's effectively left alone.


The true negative offense guys are those who are stationary shooters who can't attack closeouts.

And we got none of those on roster as of now.
Just because not being able to put it down on the floor is a flaw, it doesn't mean not being able to shoot isn't an even bigger flaw.
Can't attack a closeout if there's no closeout to be attacked.

[Pauleta14]

If he could be a 3 and D lockdown defender like Bruce Bowen it would be great. That’s all I’m asking right now. Sure Pop will have him push the ball some, be a connector like everyone. I’m curious what the starting line up will be. I think Barnes play the 4, while Sochan the 3. But I really want our #4 pick play the starting 3 from the get go and have a chance at ROY. I know Castle will share PG duties when CP(?) sits. I suspect eventually Castle starts at PG when CP(?) leaves. I’m hoping Sochan eventually plays the lockdown Bruce Bowen role (although Pop tried to develop him like Bobo’s handles and passing). While PATFO searches the future long term PF player (most of us hoping it was Markkanen).

I could see him becoming a lot more in many aspects with his defensive versatility and grit offensive rebounding but I don't see him ever becoming as reliable as Bruce in 3pts efficiency

[KingKev]

I could see him becoming a lot more in many aspects with his defensive versatility and grit offensive rebounding but I don't see him ever becoming as reliable as Bruce in 3pts efficiency

He is leaps and bounds from ever touching Bruce Bowen’s defensive prowess but i’ll take league average on decent volume (say 4-5 attempts a game) plus a switchable/versatile net positive on the defensive end happily. He is far from either of those at this point.

[Pauleta14]

I agree that he needs to improve in those areas. But I feel he went on to get better in those areas as the season went by, last year. But his shooting was still hideous. And the hitch he displayed while playing for Poland was awful. So, I am hoping that the new video showing his hitch to be gone, is something to look forward to. And if he can be a passable shooter, then his improving defense, decent playmaking and rebounding could make him a useful starter and not a liability.

I don't trust any summer videos tbh :lol

But I trust the impact of his international bb experience (even short), the impact of time (at this age you can take leaps) and more than anything I trust the impact of his "last chance to prove" season, before signing an (eventual) extention.

He's shown what he's capable of, that's why he has so many (often delusianal imo) fans, he needs to sustain the good things he does more often and gradualy improve on the other areas.

I don't think we should be obsessed with his 3pts %, it'll probably never be reliable, it just needs to not suck and be decent when open, it'll come with the work ethic he seems to have.

If he wants his extention and be a core of the team, he needs to improve his fundamentals, bbIQ, passing, cuting, awareness, reaction time etc

[Pauleta14]

He is leaps and bounds from ever touching Bruce Bowen’s defensive prowess but i’ll take league average on decent volume (say 4-5 attempts a game) plus a switchable/versatile net positive on the defensive end happily. He is far from either of those at this point.

Is it tougher to make a good offensive player an elite defenive one?

Or a good defenvive player an elite offensive one?

Bruce Bowen, even if it was in France, was a gunner, he had more than decent offensive skills, just not enough atheticism to find a offensive role in NBA, so he converted himself into a defensive specialist.

That's why I'm not a big fan of this comp. They don't have much in common really.

[BatManu20]

Yea Sochan will never sniff Bowen's defensive abilities tbh. He's not nearly as twitchy as Bruce was, nor does he have the defensive tenacity and instincts that Brucey had. But he can still be a versatile, switchable defender on that end, especially with Wemby playing behind him, and that's fine. Jeremy really just needs to lock in and work his way into becoming league-average 3-point shooter and the rest will fall into place tbh.

[C-Dub]

I really liked Bruce Bowen, but Bruce Bowen wasn't Bruce Bowen at 19/20 years old. Give Sochan The Destroyer a few more years than let's revist.

[baseline bum]

The hitch in sochan's shooting motion seems to be gone but it is still a relatively slow release. I expect a better 3p % this year. 33%? On middling attempts?

I wouldn't put any stock whatsoever in offseason workout videos. Ben Simmons releases them every summer making him look like Steph bombing threes.

[exstatic]

I wouldn't put any stock whatsoever in offseason workout videos. Ben Simmons releases them every summer making him look like Steph bombing threes.

I would gauge that as the exception, not the rule. In 6 seasons, Ben has made 5 three pointers. In 2 seasons Jeremy has made 103. The comparison of offseason video is ridiculous on the face of it. One player isn’t a great shooter, but shoots them and is working to improve. The other refuses to shoot them.

[Pauleta14]

I really liked Bruce Bowen, but Bruce Bowen wasn't Bruce Bowen at 19/20 years old. Give Sochan The Destroyer a few more years than let's revist.

Bruce Bowen wasn't a lottery pick and had to go abroad to make a living in some tiny towns in Europe and fight his way up.

Sochan, like to many was drafted on potential more than merit and had it way too easy up until now. It does impact young men, especially those not naturally gifted who just won the jackpot thx to circumstances (poor draft class and gamble by PATFO)

Again it's a lot more than just the 3pts %, it's the overall game/fundamentals and BBIQ

[ace3g]

He might have been in a car accident.

https://x.com/hooperflash/status/1827844868497903695

[buttsR4rebounding]

Yea Sochan will never sniff Bowen's defensive abilities tbh. He's not nearly as twitchy as Bruce was, nor does he have the defensive tenacity and instincts that Brucey had. But he can still be a versatile, switchable defender on that end, especially with Wemby playing behind him, and that's fine. Jeremy really just needs to lock in and work his way into becoming league-average 3-point shooter and the rest will fall into place tbh.

Bowen's defensive instincts came from hours and hours of film study. Bowen put in more time studying the tendencies of opponents than anyone else on the team and probably the league. Also, Bowen's physical style would get him fouled out in the first quarter of today's NBA. So no one can ever sniff the defensive abilities of Bruce with the current rule structure of the NBA. Although I do agree Sochan is nowhere close to being a perennial first-team All-Defensive Team player that Bowen was.

[rankingtear]

:lmao

You got to be trolling.
How can a player who's being dared to shoot every time he gets the ball have gravity?
He only has gravity when he gets the ball near the paint with a small guard on him. In every other situation, the opposing teams wants him to be the guy shooting or even driving.
What he needs to improve on is taking better advantage of those situations when he's effectively left alone.



And we got none of those on roster as of now.
Just because not being able to put it down on the floor is a flaw, it doesn't mean not being able to shoot isn't an even bigger flaw.
Can't attack a closeout if there's no closeout to be attacked.

His FG% on drives is awful but he has about the same assist% to Tre on similar volume and pass%. Also his paint touch FG% is about the same as Vic and Zollins. Sochan is rated above 3 and D guys like Jabari Smith Jr. and PJ Washington on off ball gravity according to Bball-Index.

[Ice009]

Is it tougher to make a good offensive player an elite defenive one?

Or a good defenvive player an elite offensive one?

Bruce Bowen, even if it was in France, was a gunner, he had more than decent offensive skills, just not enough atheticism to be find a offensive role in NBA, so we converted hiself into a defensive specialist.

That's why I'm not a big fan of this comp. They don't have much in common really.

I remember TP saying that Bruce was great when he saw him when he was younger. But I also recall/thought TP said Bruce also had great athleticism too, so I'm not sure if you're correct on that. Maybe Bruce lost half that athleticism by the time he reached the NBA?

[John B]

I remember TP saying that Bruce was great when he saw him when he was younger. But I also recall/thought TP said Bruce also had great athleticism too, so I'm not sure if you're correct on that. Maybe Bruce lost half that athleticism by the time he reached the NBA?

Don’t get me wrong. I love Bruce. But you can count how many times Bruce took it to the rim. I don’t know whose handles were worst, Bruce or Danny Green.

[Pauleta14]

I remember TP saying that Bruce was great when he saw him when he was younger. But I also recall/thought TP said Bruce also had great athleticism too, so I'm not sure if you're correct on that. Maybe Bruce lost half that athleticism by the time he reached the NBA?

He had, especially compared to euro players, but not compared to NBA standards to become a starter/go to guy, you need something special for that, atheltically of skills wise

Bruce was good everywhere but elite nowhere when he arrived, except his IQ that lead him to do what it takes to have an NBA career

[exstatic]

I remember TP saying that Bruce was great when he saw him when he was younger. But I also recall/thought TP said Bruce also had great athleticism too, so I'm not sure if you're correct on that. Maybe Bruce lost half that athleticism by the time he reached the NBA?

He was 30 when he signed with the Spurs,so he was definitely past his athletic prime.

[heyheymymy]

He's calling State Farm now that CP4 is on the Spurs

https://x.com/hooperflash/status/1827844868497903695

[KobesAchilles]

Maybe the accident will magically fix his broken ass shot

[Ignazzz]

Sick people

[tim_duncan_fan]

Crashing Porsches and whatnot?

This team really does have some young players.

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8A5eceod94

[SpursBills]

Early returns look good this season, although I'll have to admit that he definitely took his development in a different direction than I was expecting. Last year at this time I was anticipating more "wing skill" development for this season - improved ball handling, playmaking, shooting, etc whereas he's definitely leaned more into "forward skill" development - interior finishing, rebounding, energy. Definitely more Aaron Gordon lite than Scottie Barnes lite. Not necessarily a bad thing with Castle being here, and his upcoming extension will be interesting to keep an eye on.

Numbers wise:
All things outside shooting are down
Rebounding / 2P efficiency up

Season EPM is up to +1.4 (-0.2 off/+1.6 def), 3rd on the team behind Wemby and CP3, good for 81st percentile, BPM and VORP positive for the first time in his career
Compare him to age 21 Tari Eason and he compares relatively favorably; he's not the defensive event generator and his outside shooting is more broken, but he's a better passer which gives him more potential as a connector rather than pure play finisher

As to the extension, I think he's complete lack of outside shooting may limit his value league wide; Gordon's getting 33 million a year as the apex version of this type of player who can hit some 3s and has elite strength and athleticism. Sochan's probably outplayed the Obi Toppin extension at this point given his year two jump, but if the spurs can lock him down for 20-25 a year I'd consider that a win so long as his performance for the rest of the season holds up.

[Raven]

played pg on the late rally against the blazers, played center in another game, and is the main perimeter defender on the team. Not bad, but his shooting is hurt everytime he gets injured, and it takes him a while before he gets his confidence back. Still, he's one of the 3 main players on this team.

[Dejounte]

If it werent for Castle, Sochan would be my number 1 fave on the team.

[CGD]

Having a hard time pegging the starting point for his next contract.

[Pauleta14]

Everybody seems excited by his stat line but Sochan is an issue on offense since he came bck in the SL

I'd rather have Castle who at least is a better ball handler, passer and has better court vision.

Put Sochan back with the 2nd unit, when Vic is on the bench the game becomes easier for him

[itzsoweezee]

He only took two threes against Minnesota, but they looked so bad. Sochan’s shooting form has never looked worse. He shouldn’t even take them unless he is so open that he has time to do the 2 second windup thing he does.

The midrange shot he made looked like something he could do regularly.

[scott]

He only took two threes against Minnesota, but they looked so bad. Sochan’s shooting form has never looked worse. He shouldn’t even take them unless he is so open that he has time to do the 2 second windup thing he does.

The midrange shot he made looked like something he could do regularly.

yeah, those two threes were perhaps two of the ugliest shots I've seen in a long time. The combination of being a terrible shooter to start with and having lost all confidence. Not a good place to be in.

[Raven]

he's easily our 2nd best player.

[Pauleta14]

yeah, those two threes were perhaps two of the ugliest shots I've seen in a long time. The combination of being a terrible shooter to start with and having lost all confidence. Not a good place to be in.

Shouldn't the new/supposedly competent, shooting coach be also responsible for that ugliest shot ever seen?

That dude is clearly messing with Sochan's head,

[Pauleta14]

he's easily our 2nd best player.

he's not and it says more about the roster than him anyway.

Castle Vassell Cp3 (75% of the time) are better despite their own limitations, and Barnes is more reliable too.

[polandprzem]

yet only bassey and sandro have better fg% then sochan

[exstatic]

He’s turned into a beast on the boards, and cuts like a box knife.

[The Truth #6]

The three-point misses are shocking to witness, but it's not like he's jacking up a lot of them. And yeah, as ex said, his field goal percentage is actually really good, and his shots at the rim have improved a lot since earlier in the season from what I can tell.

But yes, he needs to improve his shooting. Perhaps his terrible outside shooting has motivated him to do well in other areas he's better at.

But someone needs to hang out by the rim and I like his potential even better now.

[itzsoweezee]

Sochan is basically a 6’7” center and Wemby is a 7’5” SF. Maybe it’ll all work out??

[Chucho]

Sohan good again?

Sorry, haven't had a chance to follow much at all this season.

[spurraider21]

he's making 58% of his 2PA, nearly 74% from within 3 feet (had been at 66% last 2 seasons). he's basically cut his 3PA in half. he's figuring out what he can and cant do

[Seventyniner]

He's trying his best to fit the Draymond Green role, though he isn't nearly as good a playmaker.

[spurraider21]

He's trying his best to fit the Draymond Green role, though he isn't nearly as good a playmaker.
aaron gordon role tbh

[LeBowen]

aaron gordon role tbh

Gordon is way more of a rim protector for the Nuggets due to Jokic's limitations.
Jeremy is his own player, can't really compare him to defense-only guys because he's at almost 15ppg and isn't just fed easy points.

[RC_Drunkford]

Told y‘all 3rd year leap

[Vince Carter's ankle]

he's not and it says more about the roster than him anyway.

Castle Vassell Cp3 (75% of the time) are better despite their own limitations, and Barnes is more reliable too.
so if he's not "our 2nd best player", does that mean we have a good roster?
although we can't expect any logic from the creator of the "Jeremy Sochan is Wemby's cryptonite" thread anyway

[Mal]

He is glue guy, he does everything a little bit, does not need the ball to effective. Keep him and good things will come

[Pauleta14]

so if he's not "our 2nd best player", does that mean we have a good roster?
although we can't expect any logic from the creator of the "Jeremy Sochan is Wemby's cryptonite" thread anyway

Were you crying while writing your post? :lol

FYI "Wemby's cryptonite..." was a quote

And anyone not uber sensitive/defensive can see Sochan's limitations in court awareness, passing and shooting abilities. He forces Wemby and the rest of the lineup to adapt to those and changes the way the team plays, with less passing and fluidity.

Yes, he's necessary on defense but he's costly on offense

[Pauleta14]

He's trying his best to fit the Draymond Green role, though he isn't nearly as good a playmaker.

Nor passer, nor shooter... :lol

[ambchang]

Were you crying while writing your post? :lol

FYI "Wemby's cryptonite..." was a quote

And anyone not uber sensitive/defensive can see Sochan's limitations in court awareness, passing and shooting abilities. He forces Wemby and the rest of the lineup to adapt to those and changes the way the team plays, with less passing and fluidity.

Yes, he's necessary on defense but he's costly on offense

And yet the spurs had a pace that’s in the middle of the league at 99.37. In November, which sochan pretty much missed, the spurs pace dropped slightly to 98.93. In fact the spurs pace went up to 100.79 in December after sochan came back. But yeah, let’s all rely on your eye test and olive branch extending insults as the measuring stick of a good debate.

Repeating the same untrue thing over and over again doesn’t make it true, it just makes you look like a retard.

[sananspursfan21]

I’m so play by play with Sochan, it’s not healthy when watching the games. I need to chill. I don’t know about his fit in particular lineups but he’s not trash

[Knoxxx]

Sochan 19 and 11 per 36 is not bad.

[Pauleta14]

And yet the spurs had a pace that’s in the middle of the league at 99.37. In November, which sochan pretty much missed, the spurs pace dropped slightly to 98.93. In fact the spurs pace went up to 100.79 in December after sochan came back. But yeah, let’s all rely on your eye test and olive branch extending insults as the measuring stick of a good debate.

Repeating the same untrue thing over and over again doesn’t make it true, it just makes you look like a retard.

Karen!! I missed your stalking...

Yeah Sochan isn't a liability at all, he's got a great reliable shot that allows the team to spread the floor, amazing poise, court vision and his passes are on point all the time!

Let's give the kid a max extension as well as Mitch, the future will look bright then! :lol

Thx for sharing a bit of your amazing BBIQ Karen!

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Were you crying while writing your post? :lol

FYI "Wemby's cryptonite..." was a quote

And anyone not uber sensitive/defensive can see Sochan's limitations in court awareness, passing and shooting abilities. He forces Wemby and the rest of the lineup to adapt to those and changes the way the team plays, with less passing and fluidity.

Yes, he's necessary on defense but he's costly on offense
what a moron you are

[Pauleta14]

what a moron you are

Still crying I see...

[Raven]

Karen!! I missed your stalking...

Yeah Sochan isn't a liability at all, he's got a great reliable shot that allows the team to spread the floor, amazing poise, court vision and his passes are on point all the time!

Let's give the kid a max extension as well as Mitch, the future will look bright then! :lol

Thx for sharing a bit of your amazing BBIQ Karen!

apparently tim duncan was a better shooter lmao

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Still crying I see...
girl don't even hope
some no-name cockroach with no logic isn't worth my tears

[ambchang]

Karen!! I missed your stalking...

Yeah Sochan isn't a liability at all, he's got a great reliable shot that allows the team to spread the floor, amazing poise, court vision and his passes are on point all the time!

Let's give the kid a max extension as well as Mitch, the future will look bright then! :lol

Thx for sharing a bit of your amazing BBIQ Karen!

Not surprised your world is just polar opposites. What about your nuanced views?

Given how productive sochan has been, both with measuring and advanced stats, it’s rather surprising to say sochan is a liability at all but hey, it’s coming from you.

You don’t understand what Karen means, and you are now thinking responses on a basketball forum is stalking? It’s like you try to outdo your own retardedness every time, but can somehow succeed at it. It’s really remarkable. To top it off you won’t admit to being wrong, and would say things that’s even more outlandish to show that your previous remark really isn’t that bad because you got even worse takes. So far it’s the only thing you seem to succeed in.

So … absolutely no responses with regards to the numbers? Given it’s you, I won’t be surprised you can’t figure out which number is the bigger number.

[Pauleta14]

Not surprised your world is just polar opposites. What about your nuanced views?

Given how productive sochan has been, both with measuring and advanced stats, it’s rather surprising to say sochan is a liability at all but hey, it’s coming from you.

You don’t understand what Karen means, and you are now thinking responses on a basketball forum is stalking? It’s like you try to outdo your own retardedness every time, but can somehow succeed at it. It’s really remarkable. To top it off you won’t admit to being wrong, and would say things that’s even more outlandish to show that your previous remark really isn’t that bad because you got even worse takes. So far it’s the only thing you seem to succeed in.

So … absolutely no responses with regards to the numbers? Given it’s you, I won’t be surprised you can’t figure out which number is the bigger number.

You are so predictable... :lol

As usual you're being selective to fit your narrative, I've been more than nuanced with Sochan, acknowledging his necessary impact on defense but the constant balance issue with his offensive liabilities. We just happen to have a franchise player who's a complicate one that requieres higher IQ and fundamentals around for the "exeperiment" to be a success. Sochan is a lot more comfortable when Vic is on the bench bc his game becomes more simple, he doesn't have to think as much.

Not sure you've ever been educated on the use of statistics, nor on the fact that their purpose isn't to disover something you can't see watching the game.

The more you isolate a stat the more you're doomed to say something stupid. It's a great entertaining tool tho

As for "Karen", you've earned it, don't be shy, or maybe educate yourself on that too, maybe you missed some criterias.

[rascal]

Sochan is over rated by Spurs fans.

He isn't strong at anything and is gifted minutes because the spurs are weak in talent.
If it wasn't for having Wemby the Spurs are still a bottom 3 team.

If Wemby is out for an extended time the spurs would quickly sink.

[The Truth #6]

Given the new tax/apron rules we're likely not able to have 2 extra All-Stars on the team after VW. Having players like Sochan is completely fine. We just need to raise the overall talent level of the team at multiple positions, while finding a true second banana who can initiate and score independently. It might be Castle or someone who isn't on the team yet.

But again, given the new rules, you have to build around one Superstar, and luckily we have the best one there is pretty much moving forward.

I'm not completely endorsing the front office to get it all right, but we are still improving.

[ambchang]

You are so predictable... :lol

As usual you're being selective to fit your narrative, I've been more than nuanced with Sochan, acknowledging his necessary impact on defense but the constant balance issue with his offensive liabilities. We just happen to have a franchise player who's a complicate one that requieres higher IQ and fundamentals around for the "exeperiment" to be a success. Sochan is a lot more comfortable when Vic is on the bench bc his game becomes more simple, he doesn't have to think as much.

Not sure you've ever been educated on the use of statistics, nor on the fact that their purpose isn't to disover something you can't see watching the game.

The more you isolate a stat the more you're doomed to say something stupid. It's a great entertaining tool tho

As for "Karen", you've earned it, don't be shy, or maybe educate yourself on that too, maybe you missed some criterias.

So your response to pace is that you have acknowledged sochans defence and your response to stats is that stats add stupid and we should take your stance as correct? Especially given your deluge of bad takes? Man. You just has the ability to outdo your own stupidity. It’s really incredible.

[ambchang]

Sochan is over rated by Spurs fans.

He isn't strong at anything and is gifted minutes because the spurs are weak in talent.
If it wasn't for having Wemby the Spurs are still a bottom 3 team.

If Wemby is out for an extended time the spurs would quickly sink.

Sochan is actually 2nd on the team in Player Impact Estimate. He is 90th percentile in league offensive rebounding so far (in a small sample size), 14th in the league in contested offensive rebounds, top quartile in the league in screen assists per 36. 80th percentile in PPG, ranked 70th in ball handling ability, 62nd percentile in assist% (lol low IQ player who can't pass), 86th percentile in defense, 89th in rebounding, 78th in defensive rebounding. You know who isn't good? Shaedon Sharpe. He is below median in teamwork, defense and rebounding, and is average in ball handling. He is only better than 40% of NBA players.

Sure all of this is based off of a website, but this is so funny how off these Spurstalk experts are:
https://3stepsbasket.com/player/jeremy-sochan
https://3stepsbasket.com/player/shaedon-sharpe

[MannyIsGod]

You are so predictable... :lol


Not sure you've ever been educated on the use of statistics, nor on the fact that their purpose isn't to disover something you can't see watching the game.



Ok, this is where I know you have no idea what you're talking about and just spew nonsense. The absolute beauty of numerical analysis is just what you said it lacks. It is EXCELLENT at showing you what you miss from just casual observation. Nothing you have said prior to this point made me believe you were actually a thoughtful person but this one line is one of the most idiotic things I've ever seen anyone on this site post and that is saying something.

[ambchang]

Ok, this is where I know you have no idea what you're talking about and just spew nonsense. The absolute beauty of numerical analysis is just what you said it lacks. It is EXCELLENT at showing you what you miss from just casual observation. Nothing you have said prior to this point made me believe you were actually a thoughtful person but this one line is one of the most idiotic things I've ever seen anyone on this site post and that is saying something.

At this point Pauleta14 is like a laughing stock of the site, s/he just continuously comes up with shockingly bad takes that it's not even shocking anymore, and when called out, will change the entire goalpost, pull up something irrelevant and said you can't read because you just didn't understand the nuances of his/her argument.

[Pauleta14]

So your response to pace is that you have acknowledged sochans defence and your response to stats is that stats add stupid and we should take your stance as correct? Especially given your deluge of bad takes? Man. You just has the ability to outdo your own stupidity. It’s really incredible.

No. Not correct at all... :lol

1st I exposed your ironical "repeating something doesn't make it true" with your own false statement about my view on Sochan that you over simplified, conveniently forgetting 50% of it ^^

2nd you need to read again, while controlling your breathing this time, you won't find me saying stats are stupid, just that you probably are and don't know how to read or interpret them. I know it looks simple but clearly you've missed some math classes at school.

3rd I know nuance isn't your thing but who knows, try again, you might get that one can criticize some aspects of one's game while giving credit to other parts. It's all about balance and Sochan's varies from game to game from positive to really negative.

Now if in your world sochan has a good court vision, is a good passer, has poise and high IQ... Or if his horrible shooting isn't an incentive for opponents to leave him alone to pack the paint...

You never fail to entertain me Karen :lol

[Pauleta14]

Ok, this is where I know you have no idea what you're talking about and just spew nonsense. The absolute beauty of numerical analysis is just what you said it lacks. It is EXCELLENT at showing you what you miss from just casual observation. Nothing you have said prior to this point made me believe you were actually a thoughtful person but this one line is one of the most idiotic things I've ever seen anyone on this site post and that is saying something.


At this point Pauleta14 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=15128) is like a laughing stock of the site, s/he just continuously comes up with shockingly bad takes that it's not even shocking anymore, and when called out, will change the entire goalpost, pull up something irrelevant and said you can't read because you just didn't understand the nuances of his/her argument.

You 2 are really cute. :lol

[MannyIsGod]

I know I'm taking an L so I'm going to make sure I make a non sequitur and put an emoji at the end.

[Pauleta14]

Nah, you REALLY are cute... :lol

[ambchang]

No. Not correct at all... :lol

1st I exposed your ironical "repeating something doesn't make it true" with your own false statement about my view on Sochan that you over simplified, conveniently forgetting 50% of it ^^

Find me a quote about saying you said Sochan's defense is bad.


2nd you need to read again, while controlling your breathing this time, you won't find me saying stats are stupid, just that you probably are and don't know how to read or interpret them. I know it looks simple but clearly you've missed some math classes at school.

My fault, I kept forgetting you are retarded. Generally speaking, stats is a tool and cannot be stupid itself, but when people say stats are stupid, it means that stats are providing the wrong results, I didn't realize you would think otherwise and require some sort of explanation as if it's an insight, but again, you are retarded.. The point is that you are amazing in that you are saying it's wrong, without ANY backup or how it was wrong. As always, you can't back your shit up.


3rd I know nuance isn't your thing but who knows, try again, you might get that one can criticize some aspects of one's game while giving credit to other parts. It's all about balance and Sochan's varies from game to game from positive to really negative.

Varies from game to game? In 13 games this year, he had, statistically speaking under Game Score, one bad game, and 9 games over 10. You take out the highest and the lowest, and he hovers around a gamescore of around 8 and 18, that's pretty consistent. To put it in perspective, Wemby hovers between 7 and 40. CP3, a vet hovers between 4 and 20. But, oh wait, the stats don't match with your eye test so they must be wrong.


Now if in your world sochan has a good court vision, is a good passer, has poise and high IQ... Or if his horrible shooting isn't an incentive for opponents to leave him alone to pack the paint...

You never fail to entertain me Karen :lol

Hey, what do we see here? You making shit up again! Sochan most definitely has to improve his shooting, I actually wrote a post not long ago saying that his shooting is worse this year not just because the percentages are down, but also his reluctance in shooting is really killing the spacing.

Sochan, based on advanced stats, is 70th percentile in ball handling (that is as a PF, so it goes up against guards and wings), 62nd percentile in assist% (again, includes guards and wings), is a lockdown defender which requires high IQ. I am not sure how you came up with poise, but oh yeah, you said it so it must be right.

You've been repeating the same shit for over a year, and there is absolute no backup at all. Last year you were crapping Sochan on this defence as well btw, quoting stats about his defensive rating without taking into consideration how he was put on the other team's best player, so you are really the expert in misinterpreting stats and don't know what you are talking about.

:lol acting like some expert in interpreting stats by throwing out some of the most basic of the basic things out there. It may be something mind-blowing to you, but to people of average intelligence, it's really obvious. The most amazing aspect about you isn't how wrong your points are, it's how you think you are the smartest person in the room without realizing how bad your takes (not just basketball btw) are, or how you take commonly circulated tiktok comments as some sort of deep insight as if you are the only person in the world with access to social media.

BTW, tell us again how stats should be used again? That was gold.


You 2 are really cute. :lol


Nah, you REALLY are cute... :lol

I don't really get this part, is this supposed to be an insult? Like really, how badly do you want to tell the world you are actually retarded?

[couchman]

Sochan is obviously becoming a good player and he's only 21 years old.
He's years away from his prime.
The counting stats look good, the advanced stats say he's a good player, and he is even passing me eye test more often than not.

[Splits]

he's making 58% of his 2PA, nearly 74% from within 3 feet (had been at 66% last 2 seasons). he's basically cut his 3PA in half. he's figuring out what he can and cant do

misleading. he's shooting 24.5% from outside of 5 feet. that is fuckin atrocious. it isn't just his outside shooting that sucks, it is all his shooting besides dunks/layups/putbacks.

[Pauleta14]

Find me a quote about saying you said Sochan's defense is bad.



My fault, I kept forgetting you are retarded. Generally speaking, stats is a tool and cannot be stupid itself, but when people say stats are stupid, it means that stats are providing the wrong results, I didn't realize you would think otherwise and require some sort of explanation as if it's an insight, but again, you are retarded.. The point is that you are amazing in that you are saying it's wrong, without ANY backup or how it was wrong. As always, you can't back your shit up.



Varies from game to game? In 13 games this year, he had, statistically speaking under Game Score, one bad game, and 9 games over 10. You take out the highest and the lowest, and he hovers around a gamescore of around 8 and 18, that's pretty consistent. To put it in perspective, Wemby hovers between 7 and 40. CP3, a vet hovers between 4 and 20. But, oh wait, the stats don't match with your eye test so they must be wrong.



Hey, what do we see here? You making shit up again! Sochan most definitely has to improve his shooting, I actually wrote a post not long ago saying that his shooting is worse this year not just because the percentages are down, but also his reluctance in shooting is really killing the spacing.

Sochan, based on advanced stats, is 70th percentile in ball handling (that is as a PF, so it goes up against guards and wings), 62nd percentile in assist% (again, includes guards and wings), is a lockdown defender which requires high IQ. I am not sure how you came up with poise, but oh yeah, you said it so it must be right.

You've been repeating the same shit for over a year, and there is absolute no backup at all. Last year you were crapping Sochan on this defence as well btw, quoting stats about his defensive rating without taking into consideration how he was put on the other team's best player, so you are really the expert in misinterpreting stats and don't know what you are talking about.

:lol acting like some expert in interpreting stats by throwing out some of the most basic of the basic things out there. It may be something mind-blowing to you, but to people of average intelligence, it's really obvious. The most amazing aspect about you isn't how wrong your points are, it's how you think you are the smartest person in the room without realizing how bad your takes (not just basketball btw) are, or how you take commonly circulated tiktok comments as some sort of deep insight as if you are the only person in the world with access to social media.

BTW, tell us again how stats should be used again? That was gold.





I don't really get this part, is this supposed to be an insult? Like really, how badly do you want to tell the world you are actually retarded?


I did feed your insanity, didn't I? :lol

My bad

[spurraider21]

misleading. he's shooting 24.5% from outside of 5 feet. that is fuckin atrocious. it isn't just his outside shooting that sucks, it is all his shooting besides dunks/layups/putbacks.
its not misleading. i literally pointed out that he's shooting 74% within 3 feet, so that means his 2PA beyond 3 feet are lower than the 58% average. that's the opposite of misleading.

with that said, 74% within 3 feet is much higher than either of his first 2 years. if he's gotten more effective at converting short area, contested shots over bigs, then that can become a more heavily emphasized part of his game instead of pretending he's a perimeter player

ive said in a few different posts/threads that he's basically a center on offense and a wing on defense

[Mal]

Sochan don't need to score, to be effective and useful

[rascal]

misleading. he's shooting 24.5% from outside of 5 feet. that is fuckin atrocious. it isn't just his outside shooting that sucks, it is all his shooting besides dunks/layups/putbacks.

He's also played limited games. I expect his numbers to start to decrease in his overall 2p% but go slightly up in his 3p%. No way he maintains his current 2p% pace.

We've already had two years of his stats and both years are similar. I expect his numbers to start to come back to his previous two year stats.

[rascal]

Sochan don't need to score, to be effective and useful

Yes he needs to score as he isn't the lock down defender many on this board claim he is.

Sochan is nothing more than a role player thrust into a starting role on a non playoff team that is still lacking in talent.

[scott]

rascal thinks Shaedon Sharpe is a good basketball player.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Yes he needs to score as he isn't the lock down defender many on this board claim he is.

Sochan is nothing more than a role player thrust into a starting role on a non playoff team that is still lacking in talent.
https://i.imgur.com/KJhVxOa.png
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1631110/by-position

[onechance87]

Sochan don't need to score, to be effective and useful

yes he does.

[ambchang]

I did feed your insanity, didn't I? :lol

My bad

Yeahs stats are insane. Really, if you have nothing to come back on, just take the L and move on. Don’t go out and remind everyone how your takes suck.

[LeBowen]

yes he does.

14.7ppg he's at right now are plenty if the rest of the roster is competent.
The issue is that whenever he played he looked like the second best scoring option other than those few games when Devin got hot.
That's not his fault. When we get enough firepower, he'll be the utility guy and a complementary piece.

[rascal]

https://i.imgur.com/KJhVxOa.png
https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1631110/by-position

Small sample size of 13 games.

Last year he gave up shooting %'s of 58% to centers and 51% to forwards.

[exstatic]

Small sample size of 13 games.

Last year he gave up shooting %'s of 58% to centers and 51% to forwards.

This isn’t last year. Unlike Sharpe,his game is evolving and improving, and he plays defense.

[Pauleta14]

Yeahs stats are insane. Really, if you have nothing to come back on, just take the L and move on. Don’t go out and remind everyone how your takes suck.

Not talking about the stats but you Karen.

Why am I not on your ignore list btw?

(rhetorical BTW, just add me on that list and don't answer me K.)

[The Truth #6]

He's showing a lot of improvement. His 3p shot sucks, yet he's still effective. If he ever shoots like Barnes then he's a borderline star at minimum. He's playing a good role. Castle needs to be a better shooter to be effective in his role, however. Imo, it's different for each player and situation.

[ambchang]

Not talking about the stats but you Karen.

Why am I not on your ignore list btw?

(rhetorical BTW, just add me on that list and don't answer me K.)

Why should I? I do read everything, nobody is on my ignore list and neither will you.

So why was I insane? What stats do you have to refute? Do you understand how those stats were used? Do you know what they mean? If you don't agree with them, why not?

[ambchang]

People acting like every contender is filled with shooters (at least 4 out of 5 on the floor), but that is just not the case.

Nuggets, Dallas, NY, Rockets, Bucks, and Grizzlies, Magic, Heat, Cavs, Thunder and Suns all have lower 3PA than the Spurs (Spurs are ranked 7th, they really should pull back though, because ....), but granted, of these teams, only the Magic and Rockets have a lower 3P% than the Spurs.

The Spurs are in the middle of the back in terms of overall scoring (17th in pts per 100, 19th in TS%, 21 in eFG%, 17th in TOV%, 17th in ORtg, 16th in Pace). Not great, but not dreadful either. Obviously having Sochan and Castle being able to shoot will address this quite a bit, but they are on a good path compared to last year, when, from what I recalled, they were at the bottom 3 in pretty much O and D.

Saying that the Spurs game is crowded is also untrue, as the Spurs are actually #4 in the league in assist per 100 possessions.

So my take is that the Spurs are actually better on O than people give them credit for.

However, i would say the D is overrated right now, mostly due to highlight blocks and things of that nature. It's not bad, but it's about the same as our O, which is slightly below the middle of the league. 19th in DRtg, 11th in DeFG%, 22th in DTOV%, 20th in DRB). The Spurs are elite in not fouling, giving up only .166 FTs per FGA to the other team, behind only Boston, but we give up more TO (15) than we force (13.8). We also give up 11.4 ORBD a game, which is 23rd in the league.

The Spurs have all the markings of a slightly below average team so far, and while people are pining for improvements from a shooting aspect, there are many other areas to improve (defensive rebounding as in not giving up too many ORBDs), force more TO especially when you have wemby in the paint as the eraser, being more selecting in 3s (jacking up less but making at a higher rate).

Sochan is doing his share on D, he is doing what he can on O as well. He will not be a superstar (unless he suddenly turns into a deadeye shooter, which I don't think he ever will), but he is already a valuable role player at this point, and improving his shooting will make him a very valuable player going forward. He is punching above his draft position now. Of the players drafted that year, I will unquestionably have Paolo, Chet, J-Dub above him. He is in the pool with Keegan Murray, Bennedict Mathurin, Dyson Daniels, Jalen Duren and Tari Eason as the next group. I can see reasons for drafting these guys over Sochan, but I personally would only consider Eason, or perhaps Murray and Daniels over him right now.

[rascal]

This isn’t last year. Unlike Sharpe,his game is evolving and improving, and he plays defense.

Sochan stats will come down when the Spurs play a tougher schedule.


Sharpe has a higher potential as an offensive player. Sochan will never be a shooter, has terrible form and lacks athleticism.

[rascal]

This isn’t last year. Unlike Sharpe,his game is evolving and improving, and he plays defense.

Small sample size. Sochan's numbers will end up like last year by the end of the season. We have two similar years of Sochan and he isn't showing any signs of shooting improvement this year 5 feet away from the basket.

Can't claim Sochan is a lock down defender when we have two years already with him not being a lock down defender.

[Sugus]

I did feed your insanity, didn't I? :lol

My bad

Fucking weak, what a puss-out.

Why even come to a basketball text-based forum if you can't entertain the slightest discussion without personal attacks? You're looking pathetic here, pal.

[Pauleta14]

Why should I? I do read everything, nobody is on my ignore list and neither will you.

So why was I insane? What stats do you have to refute? Do you understand how those stats were used? Do you know what they mean? If you don't agree with them, why not?

Because I genuinely think you're sick Karen. I mean it and don't see any point exchanging with someone with the same type of weird M.O/rhetoric who keeps using stats despite not understanding their purpose or how to read them.

It's like exchanging with a child. It's insane.

You can make numbers say anything and isolating them as you always do can only lead to stupid interpretations. It's not supposed to be easy and requires a lot of datas to have a picture... that is also available by observation.

It's ok, keep thinking Sochan and Tre are the future of the Spurs, I'll keep thinking otherwise and life goes on.

[Pauleta14]

Fucking weak, what a puss-out.

Why even come to a basketball text-based forum if you can't entertain the slightest discussion without personal attacks? You're looking pathetic here, pal.

Sorry u missed a few episodes between me and Karen "pal", I'm not gonna repeat myself again. I made my point

[ambchang]

Because I genuinely think you're sick Karen. I mean it and don't see any point exchanging with someone with the same type of weird M.O/rhetoric who keeps using stats despite not understanding their purpose or how to read them.

It's like exchanging with a child. It's insane.

You can make numbers say anything and isolating them as you always do can only lead to stupid interpretations. It's not supposed to be easy and requires a lot of datas to have a picture... that is also available by observation.

It's ok, keep thinking Sochan and Tre are the future of the Spurs, I'll keep thinking otherwise and life goes on.

So your solution is to just say random things with no stats to back it up. Like how were they wrong? I’m not saying all stats are 100% right but how were they used incorrectly? Care to explain as it appears you are some expert in statistics?


And no, sochan nor Tre are the future, it sure how you read that. Would love to have you quote me on where I said it. Given how incredibly nuanced you are in your arguments, I would not take it that you would take calling out incorrect criticisms as saying someone is the future. It’s just can’t be.

Ps. And I genuinely think you are retarded. I mean it.

[tonight...you]

Why are you two a thing?
This is horrible.

[spurraider21]

third year leap is real. big part of it is also him just having gone away from the parts of his game that he's weak at, ie perimeter offense. but the other part is he seems to just be stronger and is much more adept at finishing at the rim than he had been in his first two seasons

1869953748770103723

[exstatic]

third year leap is real. big part of it is also him just having gone away from the parts of his game that he's weak at, ie perimeter offense. but the other part is he seems to just be stronger and is much more adept at finishing at the rim than he had been in his first two seasons

1869953748770103723

The Spurs kind of flipped the script, using Wemby to space the offense and feed cutters like Sochan and Castle, each getting a lob pass from him tonight. Sochan has also picked up the rebounding slack from Wemby operating on the perimeter.

[100%duncan]

They need to figure out the spacing and rotations because Sochan is having too good of a 3rd year to consider moving except for someone that is REALLY worth it.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

1869889198280568994

[spursparker9]

Sochan is improving but his style of play will not last long in this lead without 3 point shooting.

He is just another Kenneth Faried or Montrezl Harrell

[exstatic]

Sochan is improving but his style of play will not last long in this lead without 3 point shooting.

He is just another Kenneth Faried or Montrezl Harrell

The fact that you made that statement tells me you know virtually nothing about basketball,or player comps.

[The Truth #6]

Too much hand wringing about Sochan. I'm more interested in Devin and Castle as far as their ability to play with the ball in their hands, how well they make decisions, shoot, et cetera.

[Dejounte]

Too much hand wringing about Sochan. I'm more interested in Devin and Castle as far as their ability to play with the ball in their hands, how well they make decisions, shoot, et cetera.
It’s similar to the few weirdos crying about Champagnie, who has been a consistent key contributor all year. Him and Sochan should be the least of our concerns.

[LeBowen]

I was Jeremy's biggest critic this summer, but he made significant improvements to every aspect of his game except the obvious one.

Obviously functional jumpshot will determine if he's ever anything more than a great role player, but if we had someone like MPJ or Markkanen playing with Jeremy and Wemby, it would be a nightmare to deal with for the opposition.

Teams have already given up on matching up traditional bigs with Wemby, they defend him with either mobile bigs or bigger forwards.
What Jeremy needs to improve aside obviously his jumpshot is his ability to attack slow bigs off the dribble if he's matched up with them. He already does a great job of bullying weaker forwards as we've seen last night.
Trae did very little when Jeremy/Wemby duo was defending the pnr because they can switch in most situations unlike anyone else on the roster. Whether it be a guard defending Trae or a big protecting the rim.
Compared to last season, Jeremy has a clear idea about what to do whenever he gets the ball in the paint. He plays with confidence and doesn't throw random shit up. Sample size is small, but 63% in the paint compared to last season's 52% is a huge improvement. He's high energy on both ends of the floor, his got ridiculous motor, never stands still or gives up on plays.

Obviously the big issue is that right now he's incompatible with Castle, but while Castle looks like he's got higher upside, right now Jeremy is a way more consistent contributor and a better player. Obvious because Castle is just a rookie.
I really disliked how Castle had a handful of Keldon drives where he just goes into the paint without any plan, throws random shit up that's not even close to being a good attempt.

Jeremy as backup C against small lineups was also a good move by Mitch. Should do it more often while we don't have better bench bigs. Then he and Castle can play together, surrounded by 3 shooters.

Most important thing for last, he's our only legit wing defender.
We would've won at least one of those Lakers games if Jeremy was playing, noone else on the roster can deal with elite wings. We simply can't afford not to play him when facing any borderline all-star or better wing.

[rankingtear]

Jeremy fit snuggly into that 3rd core player on a small market post second apron contender. He closer to that than Devin and Castle vying for that second star salary slot.

[Dejounte]

Jeremy fit snuggly into that 3rd core player on a small market post second apron contender. He closer to that than Devin and Castle vying for that second star salary slot.

And he’s a good fit personality wise on a team devoid of any personality whatsoever. His chemistry with Wemby is great.

[DAF86]

Jeremy fit snuggly into that 3rd core player on a small market post second apron contender. He closer to that than Devin and Castle vying for that second star salary slot.

He needs to develop that shot. Not having a shot to, at least, keep defenses honest, is a huge handicap in today's NBA. During the regular season it might go unnoticed, on a playoffs series it becomes a huge liability.

[Raven]

He needs to develop that shot. Not having a shot to, at least, keep defenses honest, is a huge handicap in today's NBA. During the regular season it might go unnoticed, on a playoffs series it becomes a huge liability.
it only is if he doesn't know how to live with passing up open shots.. the assumption is that if he isn't guarded, then someone is getting doubled, but they still need to keep him off the rim

[CGD]

Never got the Jeremy hate. He’s a stud and brings the much needed edge to the team. He just needed to find the right role, which he seems to have now.

[Cardinal]

Offense aside, Sochan’s defense remains very strong, especially on the perimeter. I was impressed by his work on Trae Young. This alone is an ability that propels him far ahead of a Kenneth Faried type player

[spurraider21]

Offense aside, Sochan’s defense remains very strong, especially on the perimeter. I was impressed by his work on Trae Young. This alone is an ability that propels him far ahead of a Kenneth Faried type player
its a double edged sword. he's not really good at defending bigs. but he's been able to rebound with them this year

[tim_duncan_fan]

its a double edged sword. he's not really good at defending bigs. but he's been able to rebound with them this year

At best optimization, he would be guarding PGs and wings. Eye-test doesn't even give me power forward size. He is a 3.

[SpursBills]

This guy is aesthetically so difficult to watch sometimes - just decides to travel randomly, ugly looking jumpers that take so long to load up, a lot of his points look like he's just getting spoon fed buckets by better players, not a lockdown man to man defender in the traditional sense like an Anunoby

Sometimes hard to remember he's still only 21, physically he's only going to get stronger, and his handle is going to keep getting better

Also, season EPM has him 2nd on the team now at +2.2 (-0.1 off/ +2.3 def) behind only Wemby

That is higher than older more promising prospects like Amen Thompson (+1.9), Tari Eason (+1.8), DeAndre Hunter (+1.0), Jalen Johnson (+0.9), Keegan Murray (-0.4)

Maybe it's small sample size and he regresses back to the mean, maybe he never develops a 3 or only develops a passable one 3-5 years from now like Draymond or Blake Griffin. But for now he looks like a pretty good pick and he's definitely way better than he was his rookie year

[spursparker9]

Hope that he can fit the Aaron Gordon's role and get easy baskets from Wemby's gravity or his own efforts on the offensive rebs.

[Spursfanfromafar]

This guy is aesthetically so difficult to watch sometimes - just decides to travel randomly, ugly looking jumpers that take so long to load up, a lot of his points look like he's just getting spoon fed buckets by better players, not a lockdown man to man defender in the traditional sense like an Anunoby

Sometimes hard to remember he's still only 21, physically he's only going to get stronger, and his handle is going to keep getting better

Also, season EPM has him 2nd on the team now at +2.2 (-0.1 off/ +2.3 def) behind only Wemby

That is higher than older more promising prospects like Amen Thompson (+1.9), Tari Eason (+1.8), DeAndre Hunter (+1.0), Jalen Johnson (+0.9), Keegan Murray (-0.4)

Maybe it's small sample size and he regresses back to the mean, maybe he never develops a 3 or only develops a passable one 3-5 years from now like Draymond or Blake Griffin. But for now he looks like a pretty good pick and he's definitely way better than he was his rookie year

The other thing that is helping him thrive is that Wemby's accuracy in 3P shooting has gone up this season. With Wemby playing like a 7 ft 5 perimeter guard on offense, it allows Sochan to masquerade as a center and limits his weaknesses in shooting. Still, here's hoping he develops a functional shot. He can be way more threatening as a player if he does so.

[CGD]

Jeremy has been awesome this season. Great offensive rebounder, garbage man, and decent post game within 10ft. Still growing obviously.

Totally agree that wemby’s spacing and his added strength have been the key to him being able to operate down low.

[rankingtear]

He needs to develop that shot. Not having a shot to, at least, keep defenses honest, is a huge handicap in today's NBA. During the regular season it might go unnoticed, on a playoffs series it becomes a huge liability.

Sochan is our center on offense. He is not going to be a huge liability in the playoffs with how him and Wemby are used.

[DAF86]

Sochan is our center on offense. He is not going to be a huge liability in the playoffs with how him and Wemby are used.

At some point you are going to need your best player to get his ass inside and get you a bucket, that's where Sochan will need to be able to stretch the floor.

[Mr. Body]

Chris Paul has helped activate Sochan, too. He's a phenomenal cutter. Once Paul moves on, we need players who can find him.

[BacktoBasics]

At some point you are going to need your best player to get his ass inside and get you a bucket, that's where Sochan will need to be able to stretch the floor.

Those two are not mutually exclusive. This would be Barnes territory.

[DAF86]

Those two are not mutually exclusive. This would be Barnes territory.

Are you implaying Barnes would be out there in the court instead of Sochan? Then Jeremy can't be the guy many seem to project he can be, if he can't stay out there in crunch time, tbh.

[BacktoBasics]

Are you implaying Barnes would be out there in the court instead of Sochan? Then Jeremy can't be the guy many seem to project he can be, if he can't stay out there in crunch time, tbh.

There’s a lot of factors to consider. Every game and match up is different. I completely understand the concern around his shooting but there are ways to get around that while still getting a net positive from Sochan. We’re somewhat seeing that now. They’re working around it effectively.

The whole thing is strange though. The hitch is weird. I don’t know why this even exists or why it can’t be fixed.

[Raven]

tbf his 3pt stroke didn't look as bad as usual in the last 3 games.. even though he made none

[100%duncan]

tbf his 3pt stroke didn't look as bad as usual in the last 3 games.. even though he made none

He hit a big 3 vs the Hawks and then in and outed one. His form looks horrible though.

[stnick2261]

I've always liked Sochan, but I hate watching him pass the ball to the PG before they cross mid-court.

[ginobilized]

I've always liked Sochan, but I hate watching him pass the ball to the PG before they cross mid-court.

I wondered if I was the only one screaming at the screen as he continues to make this mistake that 5th graders usually master!

Agree, though, he's got a lot of great qualities. Could become an Artest-lite kind of player and I see him as more of a 3 than a 4.
He's a palm shooter vs using fingertips, developing any touch will take a long time.

[BatManu20]

Anybody got $1,100 I can borrow tbh.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GgI9q37XIAARgZh?format=jpg&name=large

[spursparker9]

He got injured today against LAC again. Previously he hurt his left hand against LAC as well.

LAC is cursed man

[Raven]

hopefully nothing serious, he is key

[Knoxxx]

Seems like him sitting out some games helps Castle get minutes that the latter needs more.

[John B]

Seems like him sitting out some games helps Castle get minutes that the latter needs more.

That’s the silver lining. Don’t anybody take me wrong. I like Sochan, but Castle seems to have a higher ceiling and clearly needs more minutes. CP3, Vassell, Castle, Barnes and Wemby seems a balanced line-up.

[exstatic]

That’s the silver lining. Don’t anybody take me wrong. I like Sochan, but Castle seems to have a higher ceiling and clearly needs more minutes. CP3, Vassell, Castle, Barnes and Wemby seems a balanced line-up.

Those minutes need to come from Tre, not Sochan.

[LeBowen]

Those minutes need to come from Tre, not Sochan.

It's ridiculous that we have 7 players who deserve minutes and Castle has to be concerned about his.

CP3/Castle/Champ/Barnes/Wemby lineup worked great. Yeah, Devin and Jeremy are the nominal starters and Jeremy has improved this season, but if something works, you don't change it just because someone earns more money.
Jeremy and Devin should be on the bench.
Tre is redundant, Keldon and Collins are huge negatives.

We really need a move or two to upgrade the bench and get rid of those two negative contracts. Moves without using FRPs.

[scott]

That’s the silver lining. Don’t anybody take me wrong. I like Sochan, but Castle seems to have a higher ceiling and clearly needs more minutes. CP3, Vassell, Castle, Barnes and Wemby seems a balanced line-up.

I think this lineup gets cooked on D. Castle/Champ and D'Vingelo/Sochan need to go as a pairs.

If Castle is going to truly be one of our two starting guards, then Sochan really needs to embrace a role as a 6th man. Even Castle developing into an "average" shooter won't be enough, IMO - Jeremy really needs to be surrounded by good shooters, not just average ones. The only exception would be end of game lineups where defense becomes a priority, and certainly not when we need a freakin' 3PT shot. As much as I'm on Devin's case of late, I think bench scorer paired with Jeremy might be his best role. I'm not sure his ego, or his salary, will accommodate that though.

[John B]

I think this lineup gets cooked on D. Castle/Champ and D'Vingelo/Sochan need to go as a pairs.

If Castle is going to truly be one of our two starting guards, then Sochan really needs to embrace a role as a 6th man. Even Castle developing into an "average" shooter won't be enough, IMO - Jeremy really needs to be surrounded by good shooters, not just average ones. The only exception would be end of game lineups where defense becomes a priority, and certainly not when we need a freakin' 3PT shot. As much as I'm on Devin's case of late, I think bench scorer paired with Jeremy might be his best role. I'm not sure his ego, or his salary, will accommodate that though.

I meant Champ instead of Devin in the starting lineup-up

[ace3g]

https://x.com/BenjaminMoubech/status/1881345740586561617

[BatManu20]

https://x.com/BenjaminMoubech/status/1881345740586561617

Christ Zach Collins sucks :lol

[Pauleta14]

Has there ever been a less talented player trying to draw attention to him as much as Sochan?

[KobesAchilles]

Has there ever been a less talented player trying to draw attention to him as much as Sochan?
Cherokee Parks

[Russo21]

https://x.com/BenjaminMoubech/status/1881345740586561617

Do any of these fools take their jobs seriously or are they just happy stealing millions from a franchise?

[polandprzem]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/M3b45lcHRvg

[ace3g]

Mainly posted the video of Sochan because the hitch was less noticeable.

[Mugen]

:lmao Zollins, jesus christ

[ace3g]

https://x.com/REVERSEMAGAZINE/status/1881351188136018149

[rascal]

Sochan going to give his glasses to Collins after Collins's shot.

[CGD]

Mainly posted the video of Sochan because the hitch was less noticeable.

Totally. I know people will hate but he’s definitely put in the work this year in my view. I just hope he and Steph and play together over time, it’s just not there right now.

[Pauleta14]

No idea why people keep acting as if Sochan's shot was the only thing to fix in his game tbh... :lol

The dude is clumsy, has poor court vision and passing abilities and some think he'll fix it all??

[KobesAchilles]

Totally. I know people will hate but he’s definitely put in the work this year in my view. I just hope he and Steph and play together over time, it’s just not there right now.
Dude is shooting 28% from 3 on wide open attempts. Heck his average makes is half a 3 per game. What work did he put in exactly? I’m not even mad at Sochan but he needs to only be shooting corner 3s. And focusing on how to cut and use space in the paint to get open. It would be nice if he could wall off his defender consistently for our guards to get to the lane. The fact that he can’t is kinda another thing that makes him unplayable with the starters.

[Das Texan]

Spurs need Sochan back soon.

[Obstructed_View]

No idea why people keep acting as if Sochan's shot was the only thing to fix in his game tbh... :lol

The dude is clumsy, has poor court vision and passing abilities and some think he'll fix it all??
They're clearly so much better without him.

[Spurminator]

Yeah, Sochan is obviously flawed right now but he's a key piece if this team wants to sniff the Playoffs, and he is still young enough to improve in several areas.

For someone on a rookie contract, he's a huge value.

[LeBowen]

he's a key piece if this team wants to sniff the Playoffs

Noone except Wemby is a key piece if we're to make the playoffs, everyone else is expendable, it's just about the price.
Jeremy surely has some positive value, but if we're trading for let's say Fox and they rate Jeremy highly, I'd personally pack his bags and drive him to the airport.

[Spurminator]

Noone except Wemby is a key piece if we're to make the playoffs, everyone else is expendable, it's just about the price.
Jeremy surely has some positive value, but if we're trading for let's say Fox and they rate Jeremy highly, I'd personally pack his bags and drive him to the airport.

That's a separate conversation altogether.

I'm not opposed to using him as a trade asset, but until that's the case, we need his presence on the court.