Spurs Select F Jeremy Sochan with the 9th Pick in the 2022 NBA Draft

[Mr. Body]

Rodman used to get a hard-on to troll Karl Malone when Capt Pedo would try to back him down.

Really didn't need this imagery.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Guy can guard 1-5 and probably play pg-c . Dude just needs to learn how to shoot

so his sperms version of ben simmons without the mental capacity of a retard, nothing to see here...move along fellas...

he needs to do more out there with the pt minutes he gets...

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/1596277700615864320

[Ariel]

https://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/1596277700615864320
So basically what we've known for 8 months now.

[JPB]

Never thought I'd see Noah's ugly shot mentioned as an example to follow tbh.

[exstatic]

Never thought I'd see Noah's ugly shot mentioned as an example to follow tbh.

It’s not the player, it’s a camera and software system that tracks the arc of jump shots. Did you even read the article?

[KingKev]

Noah is actually a great comp for Sochan.

[polandprzem]

His ofensive game is so not where it should be. I thought he will be able to adjust a bit with his decissions and shot making in the season but he still looks lost. He needs more loose cause he looks tens there and not really sure what to do with the ball. His shots having double thoughts and it is not fluid at all.

[Ariel]

His ofensive game is so not where it should be. I thought he will be able to adjust a bit with his decissions and shot making in the season but he still looks lost. He needs more loose cause he looks tens there and not really sure what to do with the ball. His shots having double thoughts and it is not fluid at all.
His overall offensive game is just fine, it's his shooting that's horrid. And his rebounding is disappointing. Other than that, he's really good.

[BackHome]

Looking back most if not all our first round picks have not looked good there first year. Heck even some of our guards we drafted couldn’t even dribble the ball easily. So understanding it’s his first year and his young age not to worried he has things to work on but he has the character and worth ethic to get better every year.

[KingKev]

Will Sochan make the rookie game?

[Rocalcio]

Do we have any update about his injury ?

[exstatic]

Do we have any update about his injury ?

Myguessisthat he’ll be fine. It looked like knee to knee,but the telecast said there was a quad contusion. Pop will pull anyone out of a game this year even if someone steps on their shoe.

[The Truth #6]

For a #9 pick he seems fine, definitely not a bust, and is exactly who we thought we were drafting. Pop is throwing him in the fire and he isn’t crumbling like some former players. His jump shot is probably two years away but he’s a hard worker. He wasn’t my first choice to pick, but I don’t really see anything huge to complain about at this point.

[polandprzem]

His overall offensive game is just fine, it's his shooting that's horrid. And his rebounding is disappointing. Other than that, he's really good.
As far as being on positions , that I can agree on but his hesitations in not making spurs ofensive game much fluid

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FkeQxKPVEAAIsmm?format=jpg&name=large

[TDMVPDPOY]

for a rookie with starters minutes....needs to do more

[John B]

for a rookie with starters minutes....needs to do more

He defends the best player like Curry, while also playing PG occassionally. He averages 7.5 pts, 4.3 rebs and 2.3 assist in 24 minutes at 19 years old rookie. Aren’t we asking a bit too much? :lol

[Fireball]

even with his jump shot being MIA i love watching him play ... he has a rock solid rookie season

[Mr. Body]

He defends the best player like Curry, while also playing PG occassionally. He averages 7.5 pts, 4.3 rebs and 2.3 assist in 24 minutes at 19 years old rookie. Aren’t we asking a bit too much? :lol

I think he wants him to dye his hair more often.

[JPB]

It’s not the player, it’s a camera and software system that tracks the arc of jump shots. Did you even read the article?

Did you ever chill and not take everything first degree?

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1343352870603796483/tlPlq9KU_normal.jpg
Jordan Howenstine @AirlessJordan
(https://twitter.com/AirlessJordan)6m (https://twitter.com/AirlessJordan/status/1606127425166901248)
Jeremy Sochan had 23 points, 9 rebounds and 6 assists tonight.Only two other rookies in Spurs history to have a game with at least 23/9/6:

David Robinson (1989-90)
Tim Duncan (1997-98)

[dokdok]

Great game by the rookie. 23/9/6. Here's hoping for more games like this

[Mr. Body]

Sochan was a big threat against the Pels tonight. He was forcing some passes and maybe some shots, but NOP couldn't keep him out of the lane and he was showing confidence and calling his own forays. Really, he can get anywhere on the court he wants against most single defenders. If this is a vision of things to come...

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=503aEVwLvw4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur3nRgk2Cok

[heyheymymy]

Jeremy Sochan found that voodoo in NOLA wow unbelievable to get this much versatility in one player. He's handling and distributing, defending well but not just positionally but 1-5, and scoring touch but not just one dimensional but pull up 3s (2-4) drives and creating in the paint off contact, open rolls to the basket.

This one's gonna be special. Jeremy Sochan went absolutely mental tonight, there were a few stretches where he was relentless and taking over. I'm kinda blown away. 23/9/6- Can't wait to see more develop this season.

[rankingtear]

Rare to have downhill speed at that size. That is why Tre classify him as a freak athlete. Ben Simmons with a jump shot maybe in a few.

[XDT76]

Not sure whether if today is a outlier game but his shooting is good

[rjv]

Jeremy Sochan found that voodoo in NOLA wow unbelievable to get this much versatility in one player. He's handling and distributing, defending well but not just positionally but 1-5, and scoring touch but not just one dimensional but pull up 3s (2-4) drives and creating in the paint off contact, open rolls to the basket.

This one's gonna be special. Jeremy Sochan went absolutely mental tonight, there were a few stretches where he was relentless and taking over. I'm kinda blown away. 23/9/6- Can't wait to see more develop this season.

yeah, but we should have taken duren :rolleyes

[heyheymymy]

yeah, but we should have taken duren :rolleyes

guess we are stuck with our "role player"

[heyheymymy]

I think I meant catch and shoot 3s not pull up sorry but I'm amazed at how well he hits from range when he needs cup shots for FTs

dude is an enigma

[John B]

I think I meant catch and shoot 3s not pull up sorry but I'm amazed at how well he hits from range when he needs cup shots for FTs

dude is an enigma

His 3's are a little flat and I think two-handed. But he's not shying away from taking them.

But I like his bully-ball. I think that's where he will dominate more going straight to the rim, with 2nd and 3rd chances and getting to the FT line, while distributing. The 3 pts would be a bonus.

[exstatic]

I think I meant catch and shoot 3s not pull up sorry but I'm amazed at how well he hits from range when he needs cup shots for FTs

dude is an enigma

The FTs are helping his jumper. A couple of weeks ago, he was banging 3s hard off the rim, or even the backboard. That one hand FT is curing his release problems all around. Every one of his four 3 pointers was on line with good rotation.

[heyheymymy]

agreed John B and ex

Fascinating to watch in real time. Chip who?

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg48TmalyKc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9MamhvFLJk

[Mr. Body]

Still think Jeremy's going to wind up one of the top players in the draft.

[rascal]

Still think Jeremy's going to wind up one of the top players in the draft.

Still think Shaedon Sharpe will be better.

[Mnky]

Kid has that it factor. No fear. Doesn't back down or shrink from the moment. He fails, but everyone does. His response is always strong and motivated. Thats what makes a difference. Those traits are the hardest to teach. The rest will come. Has a great work ethic and has continuously improved. Very happy with him as a lottery pick so far. His versatility at legit PF size is such a key factor in today's game. Looks like a great piece of the puzzle going forward.

[Mr. Body]

Still think Shaedon Sharpe will be better.

Lol of course you do

[slick'81]

1.tre/scoot?
2.DV
3.kj
4.sprinkles
5.YAMA?

oooooooh man

[Dejounte]

In retrospect, there are no Sochan-type players in this upcoming draft that are projected to be lottery level talent like he was. Contrast that to Sharpe where there are similar style players having equal or better talent likely available where the Spurs will pick: Amen Thompson, Cam Whitmore, Scoot, Keyonte George. The Spurs certainly got a unique player in last year’s draft, one that has blown expectations as far as to how athletic he is.

[John B]

Sochan the Destroyer? :lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

ROOKIE with starters minutes, yet his stats are equivalent to a scrub

[Ariel]

Still think Shaedon Sharpe will be better.
Still think who gives a F*ck as Sharpe wasn't an option at the time we were picking.

PS: "Sochan is unathletic, he has no burst" :lol :drunk

[Ariel]

I'm waiting for anyone to point out someone we should have picked over him in hindsight. These are the players we could have had instead of Sochan (listing up to 19 as players after that we could have taken with the Raptors' pick):
10 Johnny Davis
11 Ousmane Dieng
12 Jalen Williams
13 Jalen Duren
14 Ochai Agbaji
15 Mark Williams
16 AJ Griffin
17 Tari Eason
18 Dalen Terry
19 Jake LaRavia
Among those I'd only consider Duren, Jalen Williams, AJ Griffin and Eason. All of them could end up valuable players, but for the first three their type is far easier to come than Sochan's, and as for Eason, I like him he's 2 years older and I'll bet on Sochan's youth and IQ. I think it's clear we made the right choice.

[John B]

I'm waiting for anyone to point out someone we should have picked over him in hindsight. These are the players we could have had instead of Sochan (listing up to 19 as players after that we could have taken with the Raptors' pick):
10 Johnny Davis
11 Ousmane Dieng
12 Jalen Williams
13 Jalen Duren
14 Ochai Agbaji
15 Mark Williams
16 AJ Griffin
17 Tari Eason
18 Dalen Terry
19 Jake LaRavia
Among those I'd only consider Duren, Jalen Williams, AJ Griffin and Eason. All of them could end up valuable players, but for the first three their type is far easier to come than Sochan's, and as for Eason, I like him he's 2 years older and I'll bet on Sochan's youth and IQ. I think it's clear we made the right choice.

While Jalen Williams would’ve been a good one, Sochan was a position of need and allowed Keldon to slide to SF, supposedly help Poeltl defend the paint. Sochan has only skimmed the surface. Watch year 2

[JPB]

9 pts, 5 rbs and 2.5 ass. aint' bad for a a rookie. And he'll never really be a stat but more like glue, do it all, kind of player...

[BacktoBasics]

Sochan the Destroyer? :lol

This needs to stick. It’s perfect.

[exstatic]

9 pts, 5 rbs and 2.5 ass. aint' bad for a a rookie. And he'll never really be a stat but more like glue, do it all, kind of player...

Kawhi scored 7.9 ppg his rookie year. Just sayin…

[Mr. Body]

Sochan is completely unique. It's weird that he picked the 10 with the colored hair -- he's extremely different from Rodman to me, almost like he's mapping a different skill set over past expectations.

One thing I like is that he seems to actually absorb lessons from his mistakes. Hopefully those accumulate.

[Seventyniner]

Sochan was as close to a no-brainer pick there as it comes, given who else was available and the Spurs' needs at the time. I'm glad the FO didn't outsmart themselves.

[rascal]

Still think who gives a F*ck as Sharpe wasn't an option at the time we were picking.

PS: "Sochan is unathletic, he has no burst" :lol :drunk

The argument before the draft was Sochan or Sharpe, who will be better. Spurs should have tried to move up in the draft with a trade. No word they even tried.

And Sochan is quickly becoming overrated by this board. Ugly overall game and still can't shoot.

I want to see exciting players on the court not some clown with pink hair who is more defense.

[Mr. Body]

Sochan was as close to a no-brainer pick there as it comes, given who else was available and the Spurs' needs at the time. I'm glad the FO didn't outsmart themselves.

Yeah, definitely. I was miffed when rumors floated about Mark Williams. I did like Duren, but Sochan was the right call. The previous year the no-brainer was Sengun; thankfully they didn't blow it again.

The question is who he'll be better than who was picked above him. This is looking like a pretty strong draft, really, and Sochan could easily plateau as a very high-level role player, but the possibilities of what he could become are astounding.

[Mr. Body]

The argument before the draft was Sochan or Sharpe, who will be better. Spurs should have tried to move up in the draft with a trade. No word they even tried.

And Sochan is quickly becoming overrated by this board. Ugly overall game and still can't shoot.

I want to see exciting players on the court not some clown with pink hair who is more defense.

You're just a Sharpe simp, so every player is terrible compared to him. Running and jumping is all you see.

To me, Sharpe is in the same mold as Jalen Green and Jonathan Kuminga. They both fell off considerably their second years after some promise. This is because they have little to no actual foundation in playing basketball. Instinctive talent can take you so far in the NBA, then professionals know how to play you, take away everything. Do you have counters? Do you have the grit to improve? What's your mentality when you've got to dig in?

Not only did Sharpe lose an entire year of development sitting out at Kentucky, where he wasn't even playing high school guys, he's not actually that good this year - certainly worse than Green or Kuminga were their rookie years.

[JPB]

The argument before the draft was Sochan or Sharpe, who will be better. Spurs should have tried to move up in the draft with a trade. No word they even tried.

And Sochan is quickly becoming overrated by this board. Ugly overall game and still can't shoot.

I want to see exciting players on the court not some clown with pink hair who is more defense.

Some people want highlight reel others can appreciate, basketball skills, IQ and fundamentals... And not comparing obviously, but Duncan wasn't "exciting" for a lot of people who couldn't appreciate the Big Fundamental...


You're just a Sharpe simp, so every player is terrible compared to him. Running and jumping is all you see.

To me, Sharpe is in the same mold as Jalen Green and Jonathan Kuminga. They both fell off considerably their second years after some promise. This is because they have little to no actual foundation in playing basketball. Instinctive talent can take you so far in the NBA, then professionals know how to play you, take away everything. Do you have counters? Do you have the grit to improve? What's your mentality when you've got to dig in?

Not only did Sharpe lose an entire year of development sitting out at Kentucky, where he wasn't even playing high school guys, he's not actually that good this year - certainly worse than Green or Kuminga were their rookie years.

Yeah, BBIQ make the difference basically. and that's what is sometimes undermined with superstars, how high BBIQ players most are.

[John B]

The only thing missing is a jumpshot. And Sochan is very much willing to work on his FT and shooting mechanics. I have no doubt they’ll figure it out. He is already an elite defensive player guarding 1-5 in his rookie year. He can rebound and push the ball, with great court vision. Yes, he makes TO’s but those he needs to do and adjust. Year two, Sochan will surprise a lot of people.

[lebomb]

I dont know...........I like Sochan, but I still think Jalen Duren has more upside.

Jalen Duren stats
7.3 PPG, 8.4 RPG, 0.8 BPG, 61% FG
It took 30 games for Jalen Duren to get into the starting lineup, and ever since, he’s averaged 11.4 rebounds per game. He’s also raised his scoring to 8.6 points per game, settling into averaging nearly a double-double. Keep in mind he’s just 19 years old. Even as a rookie, Duren ranks fourth in the NBA in offensive rebound percentage, giving Pistons flashbacks of Andre Drummond. We can’t wait to see what else he has in store, especially with a more complete roster

[Ariel]

I dont know...........I like Sochan, but I still think Jalen Duren has more upside. Jalen Duren stats 7.3 PPG, 8.4 RPG, 0.8 BPG, 61% FG It took 30 games for Jalen Duren to get into the starting lineup, and ever since, he’s averaged 11.4 rebounds per game. He’s also raised his scoring to 8.6 points per game, settling into averaging nearly a double-double. Keep in mind he’s just 19 years old. Even as a rookie, Duren ranks fourth in the NBA in offensive rebound percentage, giving Pistons flashbacks of Andre Drummond. We can’t wait to see what else he has in store, especially with a more complete roster
But that's the point, Andre Drummond type players aren't that valuable in the NBA anymore, he's been bouncing around trying to command a big contract for a few years and failing to stick anywhere. Meanwhile, versatile forwards with all around skillsets are much harder to come by. He11, although they're not exactly the same type, if we really wanted a center we could have easily taken Kessler (with our 20th pick) or Koloko (with our 25th pick) if we wanted to, and there are such options every year, both in the draft and in free agency. Or just keep Poeltl, for God sakes.
So even if Duren has (somewhat) exceeded expectations (mainly in how fast he's been able to produce), he's largely who we expected (a physical beast who crashes the boards like a madman but is raw and with a limited offensive game). Same could be said for Sochan, whose overall game is even better than anticipated but worse as a shooter. They both have strengths and weaknesses, and either could develop into very good and productive players for a long time, but if Sochan pans out he's someone you very seldom come by, whereas with Duren... not so much. So for that reason I'm sticking with Sochan, although I'll admit I envy Detroit's savvy move for Duren... I wish we could have gotten him that cheap.

[exstatic]

I dont know...........I like Sochan, but I still think Jalen Duren has more upside.

Jalen Duren stats
7.3 PPG, 8.4 RPG, 0.8 BPG, 61% FG
It took 30 games for Jalen Duren to get into the starting lineup, and ever since, he’s averaged 11.4 rebounds per game. He’s also raised his scoring to 8.6 points per game, settling into averaging nearly a double-double. Keep in mind he’s just 19 years old. Even as a rookie, Duren ranks fourth in the NBA in offensive rebound percentage, giving Pistons flashbacks of Andre Drummond. We can’t wait to see what else he has in store, especially with a more complete roster

I like Duran, but he’s not a modern 5. He’ll always be limited in the amount of time he can play by his inability to stretch the floor.

[spurraider21]

i love Duran, but this isn't the era where his value will be maximized. he would have been an awesome 5 alongside Timmy for most of his career.

[spurraider21]

its weird how sochan is showing so many positive traits... ability to handle the ball, sharp passes, aggressive rim attacks, touch around the basket, and occasional playmaking on defense while taking on the challenge of guarding players of all positions

but overall his impact on games are rarely positive. hes the proverbial "guy who has to put it all together". as a 19 year old rookie, you arent expecting a finished product and just have to see if those traits he showed in college are translating to the NBA level, and so far they are, so its quite encouraging. he still has to put a lot of work in to become a complete player, but he's shown the willingness to put the work in, so far.

kawhi was a much more NBA ready defender, but was mostly hidden on offense as a rookie with the exception of cuts/putbacks

[lebomb]

But that's the point, Andre Drummond type players aren't that valuable in the NBA anymore, he's been bouncing around trying to command a big contract for a few years and failing to stick anywhere. Meanwhile, versatile forwards with all around skillsets are much harder to come by. He11, although they're not exactly the same type, if we really wanted a center we could have easily taken Kessler (with our 20th pick) or Koloko (with our 25th pick) if we wanted to, and there are such options every year, both in the draft and in free agency. Or just keep Poeltl, for God sakes.
So even if Duren has (somewhat) exceeded expectations (mainly in how fast he's been able to produce), he's largely who we expected (a physical beast who crashes the boards like a madman but is raw and with a limited offensive game). Same could be said for Sochan, whose overall game is even better than anticipated but worse as a shooter. They both have strengths and weaknesses, and either could develop into very good and productive players for a long time, but if Sochan pans out he's someone you very seldom come by, whereas with Duren... not so much. So for that reason I'm sticking with Sochan, although I'll admit I envy Detroit's savvy move for Duren... I wish we could have gotten him that cheap.

.................... I can see your point. But Im still kinda up in the air on this.

[The Truth #6]

To me, it seems hard to assess his contribution on the court, especially defense, because the team defense is so horrible. As stated before, it’s even weirder because we seemingly have good individual defenders, at least a few of them. The eye test usually seems encouraging so I’m going with that. Comparing to Kawhi’s rookie season is difficult for me because we were already a good to great defensive team. I don’t know. For me he’s an awesome player for the Spurs from a fan perspective. He has a great temperament and edge.

[exstatic]

.................... I can see your point. But Im still kinda up in the air on this.

Ten years earlier, he would have been a top 2 pick, yet in 2022, he almost fell out of the lottery.

[spurraider21]

To me, it seems hard to assess his contribution on the court, especially defense, because the team defense is so horrible. As stated before, it’s even weirder because we seemingly have good individual defenders, at least a few of them. The eye test usually seems encouraging so I’m going with that. Comparing to Kawhi’s rookie season is difficult for me because we were already a good to great defensive team. I don’t know. For me he’s an awesome player for the Spurs from a fan perspective. He has a great temperament and edge.
spurs were also a well oiled offensive machine when kawhi came as well. there was a very clear pecking order with the big 3 before they had to lean on guys like kawhi to actually be offense generators. meanwhile present day spurs have struggled to find their footing so every other day so there are nights where sochan is handling the ball way more, nights where its Tre's show. heck even nights where josh richardson is leaned on the most

[spurraider21]

his ORPM is -2.6 but his DRPM is 1.16. honestly, im surprised the defense is that high because he does seem inconsistent on that end while he's still figuring out which risks he can and cant take. the O being that low isn't a surprise at all, but he's shown so many tools that can be refined that we know he hasnt really approached his ceiling on that end yet

[John B]

To me, it seems hard to assess his contribution on the court, especially defense, because the team defense is so horrible. As stated before, it’s even weirder because we seemingly have good individual defenders, at least a few of them. The eye test usually seems encouraging so I’m going with that. Comparing to Kawhi’s rookie season is difficult for me because we were already a good to great defensive team. I don’t know. For me he’s an awesome player for the Spurs from a fan perspective. He has a great temperament and edge.

Spurs are tanking. They have to find a way to lose. So I don’t buy the Spurs having a bad defensive rate this year. Pop plays rookies and G-Leaguers. I’m sure Spurs stats would be much better if they are trying to win, and Pop’s jugular would beca great indicator

[slick'81]

Sochan is completely unique. It's weird that he picked the 10 with the colored hair -- he's extremely different from Rodman to me, almost like he's mapping a different skill set over past expectations.

One thing I like is that he seems to actually absorb lessons from his mistakes. Hopefully those accumulate.

he idolized worm

[offset formation]

Sochan was as close to a no-brainer pick there as it comes, given who else was available and the Spurs' needs at the time. I'm glad the FO didn't outsmart themselves.

Love Sochan. Was totally on board with him pre and post selection. But Dieng will show out too. And I would have also happily taken him. But I'm certainly not complaining about Sochan.

[JPB]

Sochan has 4 months and 40 NBA games under his belt, playing in a young, tanking team... It's all about potential not productivity at the moment... Put him in a competitive teams with a couple of stars 2-3 years from now and he'll fit just fine as a point foward.

[KingKev]

Sochan was the clear pick at the time, especially since Sharpe and Mathurin were off the board; both players who could have slipped. He fit a position of need with a very intriguing skillset and this far is performing as expected. I really wish we found a way move up to scoop Eason and Duren with our other picks though.

[exstatic]

Sochan has 4 months and 40 NBA games under his belt, playing in a young, tanking team... It's all about potential not productivity at the moment... Put him in a competitive teams with a couple of stars 2-3 years from now and he'll fit just fine as a point foward.

Spurs players all seem to click in year 3. White was the only one who clicked earlier,and he was 23 as a rook.

[scott]

The argument before the draft was Sochan or Sharpe, who will be better. Spurs should have tried to move up in the draft with a trade. No word they even tried.

And Sochan is quickly becoming overrated by this board. Ugly overall game and still can't shoot.

I want to see exciting players on the court not some clown with pink hair who is more defense.

If we are going to live in fantasy land about trading up, then the guy was Mathurin, not Sharpe.

[scott]

I dont know...........I like Sochan, but I still think Jalen Duren has more upside.

Jalen Duren stats
7.3 PPG, 8.4 RPG, 0.8 BPG, 61% FG
It took 30 games for Jalen Duren to get into the starting lineup, and ever since, he’s averaged 11.4 rebounds per game. He’s also raised his scoring to 8.6 points per game, settling into averaging nearly a double-double. Keep in mind he’s just 19 years old. Even as a rookie, Duren ranks fourth in the NBA in offensive rebound percentage, giving Pistons flashbacks of Andre Drummond. We can’t wait to see what else he has in store, especially with a more complete roster

We could potentially have our Drummond-type in Bassey. I like that he is now on the traditional G-League development track.

[wildbill2u]

I've always wondered if we couldn't have gotten Sochan with one of our lower picks. He didn't have a stellar college career behind him and had/has some serious shooting problems that were evident in college. He's ok--but not automatic-- as long as he can get an open bunny or dunk within a few feet of the basket, but teams are going to ignore him at any distance from the basket. That may be why he sometimes gets loose close to the basket.

Oh well, what's done is done. I hope he can develop beyond a roving defender and show his worth as a lottery pick.

[Mr. Body]

I've always wondered if we couldn't have gotten Sochan with one of our lower picks. He didn't have a stellar college career behind him and had/has some serious shooting problems that were evident in college.

Nope. He certainly wasn't a reach and there was some thought he might go higher. A team like OKC would certainly take him if we were foolish enough to pass.

[CGD]

Nope. He certainly wasn't a reach and there was some thought he might go higher. A team like OKC would certainly take him if we were foolish enough to pass.

Exactly. Had we traded for one of those CHA picks in the 11-13 range then maybe, but not at 20 where we were picking. Anyway, who was there at 9 that we missed on? MAYBE that Jaylen guy OKC picked at 12 but that’s it

[TDMVPDPOY]

him shooting with 1 hand ft....has he hit 1 in the clutch or end of game situations to win games?

[Rocalcio]

1.tre/scoot?
2.DV
3.kj
4.sprinkles
5.YAMA?

oooooooh man

I'd be very happy if we can trade for Killian Hayes when Cunningham comes back and put him on the bench. The kid is really improving this season and he's a great playmaker plus being a good defender. He'd fit perfectly with pop and if we're lucky enough to land Wembanyama then we'd have 2 frenchies, we know how it worked with the previous ones.

[CGD]

I'd be very happy if we can trade for Killian Hayes when Cunningham comes back and put him on the bench. The kid is really improving this season and he's a great playmaker plus being a good defender. He'd fit perfectly with pop and if we're lucky enough to land Wembanyama then we'd have 2 frenchies, we know how it worked with the previous ones.

Didnt Hayes bust?

[Mr. Body]

Didnt Hayes bust?

His shooting has only marginally improved, but overall he's better in his third year and I wouldn't say he's a bust. Not great at his draft position, maybe, but not horrible.

[exstatic]

His shooting has only marginally improved, but overall he's better in his third year and I wouldn't say he's a bust. Not great at his draft position, maybe, but not horrible.

He is terrible for his #7 draft position, barely roatation quality. Fortunately for him, this draft was fucking terrible, and his bust at #7 wasn’t the worst or most noticeable.

[Rocalcio]

Hayes will be fine

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, Hayes is looking like he's putting it together more now.

[The Truth #6]

He is terrible for his #7 draft position, barely roatation quality. Fortunately for him, this draft was fucking terrible, and his bust at #7 wasn’t the worst or most noticeable.

https://pistonpowered.com/2023/01/07/detroit-pistons-killian-hayes-bust-core/

[Ariel]

Hayes has taken a leap from "shortly out of the league" to "may actually stick around". But he's not our long term PG. I do wonder however about the point guard rotation in Detroit, because it's already crowded with Cunningham, Ivey and now Hayes, and if they land no. 2 adding Scoot to the mix would push them to the "bound for trouble" area. That's one situation to keep an eye on if we're out of the top 2, maybe someone could be expendable or tradeable (Ivey? Trade down from no. 2?). Same goes for Charlotte with Lamelo.

[heyheymymy]

https://i.redd.it/313kts33elca1.jpg

[tonight...you]

He's my only untouchable player right now on the team.
You just know he's going to keep improving and maybe exponentially.
Of course, we'll see.

[Leetonidas]

We need a gif of the takedown on Morris

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

He's got the nasty, and this team is gonna need the nasty to defend frail little Wemby.

[Mr. Body]

He's got the nasty, and this team is gonna need the nasty to defend frail little Wemby.

Sochan will only defend Wemby two or four times a year.

[JPB]

We need a gif of the takedown on Morris
I was bored, so there you go:

https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-19-2023/i26sTv.gif

[timtonymanu]

I don’t understand why Morris even tries to act tough after Jokic made him his bitch.

Bunch of fake tough guys (he and his waste of space twin) that will end up dead after crossing the wrong person.

[John B]

I was bored, so there you go:

https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-19-2023/i26sTv.gif

That’s some Judo shit :lol And that by a Rookie, you know Sochan will not take it from anybody

[couchman]

Morris is too dumb and unskilled to do anything else.

I love Sochan The Destroyer and I’m very pleased by what he has shown as a rookie.
He obviously needs to add a consistent shot, and surprisingly enough I want to see a better rebounding rate if he is to stay a PF. Otherwise he might become a wing!
His tenacity and attitude alone will ensure he maximizes a lot of his ability so I’m excited for the future.

[slick'81]

Morris is a pussy. Im soo glad he tried jeremy :lol

[heyheymymy]

lol at stiff lurch Morris, got more than he bargained for trying to take out Sochan. You can literally see the surprise in Morris' eyes that he had underestimated Sochan.

I think it shows Sochan is gonna be special. Any other rook gets rattled right there. Takes the hit and goes down shocked. Sochan immediately sees the situation and instinctively does a quick wrap to topple Morris and make Morris bite off more than Morris can chew.

That tape just went around the world. Everyone starting to learn that Sochan does not play. This in turn opens up the game a bit for Jeremy. Defenders a little more tentative. Space for a window to shoot a little more open. Shooters and fast breakers a little more weary of that track-down coming from Jeremy in the peripheral vision. The entire league just second-guessed any little tricks planned for the rookie now. Every gameplan that goes up against Sochan requires a little more film session now. A new respect settles on the horizon in San Antonio.

[slick'81]

https://youtu.be/rcZ_XM20esE

[stnick2261]

https://youtu.be/rcZ_XM20esE

#2... That wasn't even a dunk!! (a few seconds later)... Oh!, There it is!

[heyheymymy]

Pretty savvy move by Stanley to hold Morris down on that confrontation too. Underrated heads up move to diffuse the altercation imo tbh

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc2E0JXXFqY

[CGD]

He’s definitely improving. once he gets a reliable shot in a few years watch out

[Mr. Body]

Not just a shot, but once he learns the pro game he's going to be a handful.

[slick'81]

Hes already a handful

[J_Paco]

Not just a shot, but once he learns the pro game he's going to be a handful.

Dipshit definitely beat Sochan with his veteran bag of tricks, savvy and strength.

Once Sochan really learns people's tendencies and gains strength that likely won't be the case (as often).

[Mr. Body]

Dipshit definitely beat Sochan with his veteran bag of tricks, savvy and strength.

Once Sochan really learns people's tendencies and gains strength that likely won't be the case (as often).

Yes! Kawhi is twelve years older than Sochan! Jeremy is not even twenty yet.

[J_Paco]

Yes! Kawhi is twelve years older than Sochan! Jeremy is not even twenty yet.

Yeah, I agree. I think his ceiling is a mix of Draymond Green and Pascal Siakam.

And I just selfishly wanted Nephew to have a shit game and get punked by a rookie. When he's (rarely) healthy he is unfortunately still a handful (especially for a lesser talented team like us).

[Rocalcio]

I’m really happy we picked this kid, I had high expectations for him and so far he’s even better than I thought. Sky is the limit !

[exstatic]

Yeah, I agree. I think his ceiling is a mix of Draymond Green and Pascal Siakam.

And I just selfishly wanted Nephew to have a shit game and get punked by a rookie. When he's (rarely) healthy he is unfortunately still a handful (especially for a lesser talented team like us).

Got this from a Twitter thread about ADavis: the best ability is availability.

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc-TfWTP6TY

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I think it's important to remember that he's 19. I remember when they used to preach that bigs don't hit their stride until they've been in the league for 4 or 5 years, and that's after coming in at 21 or 22 years old. I think we expect a lot of these young kids when they're still developing. Sochan is playing at a really level for someone who can't even buy a beer for a couple of years.

[Maddog]

I think it's important to remember that he's 19. I remember when they used to preach that bigs don't hit their stride until they've been in the league for 4 or 5 years, and that's after coming in at 21 or 22 years old. I think we expect a lot of these young kids when they're still developing. Sochan is playing at a really level for someone who can't even buy a beer for a couple of years.
Nor have a glass of wine in a restaurant.
I really like the attitude he has .
I know he'll get stronger which will really help.

[offset formation]

Dipshit definitely beat Sochan with his veteran bag of tricks, savvy and strength.

Once Sochan really learns people's tendencies and gains strength that likely won't be the case (as often).

My guess is he plays him much better the next time we play the Clips.

[exstatic]

Dipshit definitely beat Sochan with his veteran bag of tricks, savvy and strength.

Once Sochan really learns people's tendencies and gains strength that likely won't be the case (as often).

Rudy Gay buttfucked Kawhi as a rook. That didn’t turn into any kind of trend.

[Maddog]

Rudy Gay buttfucked Kawhi as a rook. That didn’t turn into any kind of trend.

I think he's still going to have trouble with nephew,
Just not strong enough currently

[Mr. Body]

My question is more whether Neph will last the whole season.

[tonight...you]

I think he's still going to have trouble with nephew,
Just not strong enough currently
No question.
He's a 19 year old young man with zero NBA experience except for him going willy-nilly this season.

Kawhi has seasons of learning from the best under his belt and has built his body.
Dude has a large bag of tricks and Sochan is just a wild pony at this point.

Sochan at Year 3 is going to look vastly different than Year 1, given his want-to to learn, adapt and succeed.
Same goes for Kawhi as his brittle body ages.

[Chinook]

Qualitatively, I'm please with Sochan. He's improving at a decent clip, and he has a lot of room to grow. His increased success shooting free throws suggests his scoring might go up substantially. Quantitatively, him grading out as a below-average defender is worrying. As mentioned, most good defenders come into the league good. Most of the guys who eventually get the rep of being good actually never grade out that well. They just start making some impact plays or having some aesthetically pleasing highlights. You can sort of stop being a negative with training, but without really looking into why Sochan hasn't been effective on defense, I'm pessimistic on him taking a huge leap there. Offense legit can increase as a player grows, so I don't worry about him at all there.

[tonight...you]

Qualitatively, I'm please with Sochan. He's improving at a decent clip, and he has a lot of room to grow. His increased success shooting free throws suggests his scoring might go up substantially. Quantitatively, him grading out as a below-average defender is worrying. As mentioned, most good defenders come into the league good. Most of the guys who eventually get the rep of being good actually never grade out that well. They just start making some impact plays or having some aesthetically pleasing highlights. You can sort of stop being a negative with training, but without really looking into why Sochan hasn't been effective on defense, I'm pessimistic on him taking a huge leap there. Offense legit can increase as a player grows, so I don't worry about him at all there.
I savvy.
Just, as a 19 year old kid who never even started for his college team... I'm willing to give him some benefit as he's phillying it up on the court this year before passing historical judgement over players that generally have come in with more than he has.

Maybe you're right and probably are.
Maybe he's too young and barely getting into the groove on both ends to say anything.

What we do know is that he's willing and able to try and go for whatever he has to with no fear.

That counts.

[Gibbz]

Qualitatively, I'm please with Sochan. He's improving at a decent clip, and he has a lot of room to grow. His increased success shooting free throws suggests his scoring might go up substantially. Quantitatively, him grading out as a below-average defender is worrying. As mentioned, most good defenders come into the league good. Most of the guys who eventually get the rep of being good actually never grade out that well. They just start making some impact plays or having some aesthetically pleasing highlights. You can sort of stop being a negative with training, but without really looking into why Sochan hasn't been effective on defense, I'm pessimistic on him taking a huge leap there. Offense legit can increase as a player grows, so I don't worry about him at all there.

How many 19-YOs start in the frontcourt for NBA teams? Even Jak's defensive metrics are considerably down since they're tanking. I think Sochan still has a lot of upside on both ends, and I wouldn't worry about grading him yet.

[Maddog]

Qualitatively, I'm please with Sochan. He's improving at a decent clip, and he has a lot of room to grow. His increased success shooting free throws suggests his scoring might go up substantially. Quantitatively, him grading out as a below-average defender is worrying. As mentioned, most good defenders come into the league good. Most of the guys who eventually get the rep of being good actually never grade out that well. They just start making some impact plays or having some aesthetically pleasing highlights. You can sort of stop being a negative with training, but without really looking into why Sochan hasn't been effective on defense, I'm pessimistic on him taking a huge leap there. Offense legit can increase as a player grows, so I don't worry about him at all there.

I think this is a pretty legitimate concern. On the other hand, I haven't seen a 19 year old be assigned to guard 1-4 like him.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Qualitatively, I'm please with Sochan. He's improving at a decent clip, and he has a lot of room to grow. His increased success shooting free throws suggests his scoring might go up substantially. Quantitatively, him grading out as a below-average defender is worrying. As mentioned, most good defenders come into the league good. Most of the guys who eventually get the rep of being good actually never grade out that well. They just start making some impact plays or having some aesthetically pleasing highlights. You can sort of stop being a negative with training, but without really looking into why Sochan hasn't been effective on defense, I'm pessimistic on him taking a huge leap there. Offense legit can increase as a player grows, so I don't worry about him at all there.

I don’t think most rookies guard the other team’s best player nightly regardless of position. In today’s NBA those people are mostly unguardable. That has to hurt statistically. Although it definitely could be me just looking at it through Spurs-colored glasses.

[Mr. Body]

Where does the idea that Sochan is a bad defender come from?

[The Truth #6]

I think it's difficult to play good defense in the NBA anymore. The league has completely deprioritized it, other than making an emphasis on charging calls, which is stupid in its own way. As for Sochan being a bad defender, it feels like Chinook got on a roll. I do think it's a paradox that we have good defenders yet our team defense is horrible, but I also feel confident that if many of these players were on better teams, then we wouldn't have the same concerns about their individual defense. Sochan is probably overeager as a defender, but it's not something I'm worried about at this point.

[drpill]

From what I've seen of Sochan, and I've focused on him a lot watching games this year, he does have a way to go to be a consistently good defender. I often see him a half step slow, or getting caught a bit with his head turned, leading to a good play for the opposing team. He's not really a fast-twitch athlete and he doesn't have a crazy motor like some guys, and I think it shows at times, on defense and also rebounding, getting after loose balls, etc. He does noticeably have a second gear, and the ability to crank it up in clutch situations, which is encouraging. My hunch is he is overall just taking things in, learning, focusing on playing proper team defense, and making rookie mistakes. Once he is fully comfortable in the scheme and with the pro game, and knows more about the tendencies of the players he's facing, I expect that his defensive IQ will shine.

[spurraider21]

Where does the idea that Sochan is a bad defender come from?
from his actual performance as opposed to the draft analysis

he simply hasn't been good. he hasnt had that same impact that kawhi used to, who would be an off-ball menace that the other team always had to be conscious of when throwing a pass anywhere near him. his man to man defense has also been unremarkable. he hasnt given anybody any particular trouble in those spots, imo

the only encouraging thing so far is that on a game to game basis he is being thrown into a lot of different positions. from playing against more traditional 4's, and sometimes being asked to guard point guards. the versatility is cool and a positive sign, but the actual results just havent been there

his offense has come farther along than i had anticipated... but we were all kind of expecting him to be a defensive ace, where any offensive development would be a welcome bonus. instead right now his biggest impact is on offense, which imo doesnt bode particularly well since im not sure he is big enough or a good enough athlete to really be a primary offensive force. we need him to be that defensive ace

[spurraider21]

for what its worth its the same concern i have with Vassell. his draft profile was basically 3 & D with some more sneaky offensive upside. this year when on the court his offense has been pretty incredible. the scoring is way up, but has also had good efficiency despite the volume. and much more so than keldon, he's proven do be an improving playmaker for others (3.6 assists per game is nothing to sneeze at from a wing, especially in his first season as a starter with a more go-to role).

but he also has not performed well on defense this year. our starting lineup right now includes 4 guys who were billed as "defensive minded" players, between Tre, Vassell, Sochan, and Jak. but our team defense has been abysmal. its definitely something to be concerned about

[BackHome]

Yeah, I always thought Vassell was going to be a shut down type of guy on defense but it has not showed I am always wanting to see him go after rebounds harder then he does. As far as Sochan I was not sold on his defense well I thought he will be a very good team defender but he is not the shot blocking PF I have always wanted. But his offense like Vassell has kinda surprised me at this point only gripe is the same as Vassell and that is Rebounding.

But at this point just draft best player until we hit gold then at that point think about what talent he needs around him

[Vince Carter's ankle]

his man to man defense has also been unremarkable. he hasnt given anybody any particular trouble in those spots, imo
1593120008766337030

[rascal]

Defense is over rated. You need great offensive players and shooting. NBA players are too strong offensively and can score on anyone.

It's too easy to score in the NBA. This isn't the NFL where you can build a winner on defense. And even in the NFL a strong offensive team can take down a top defensive team with limited offensive players. Spurs need to target strong offensive players.

Need to build around offense not defense.

[rascal]

Sochan is overrated here. Guys score and shoot right over him. He doesn't have the best vertical lift and is not a good rebounder.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

Defense is over rated.
Raptors 2019 top-5 DRtg
Lakers 2020 top-3 DRtg
Bucks 2021 top-10 DRtg
Warriors 2022 top-1 DRtg


You need great offensive players and shooting.
Shaedon Sharpe doesn't fit that description.

[rascal]

Raptors 2019 top-5 DRtg
Lakers 2020 top-3 DRtg
Bucks 2021 top-10 DRtg
Warriors 2022 top-1 DRtg


Shaedon Sharpe doesn't fit that description.

He sure does. Will only get better. Sharpe is a future superstar. Sharpe has a much more exciting game than Sochan.

[Vince Carter's ankle]

He sure does. Will only get better. Sharpe is a future superstar. Sharpe has a much more exciting game than Sochan.
Euroleague superstar?

[John B]

1593120008766337030

Man that’ awful defense on Lillard there. He’s suppose to let him pass and try to chase block him. But nooo, he makes Lillard shoot 3pt over him, which we all know would make highlight reels if they go in. Terrible defense :lol

[Mr. Body]

Sochan will be fine or even better than fine as a defender. For some reason the team has completely stopped defending or taking it seriously. Maybe Pop just wants to develop players offensively. Makes sense given their needs. On a better team Sochan's abilities on that side will be more evident.

[John B]

Sochan will be fine or even better than fine as a defender. For some reason the team has completely stopped defending or taking it seriously. Maybe Pop just wants to develop players offensively. Makes sense given their needs. On a better team Sochan's abilities on that side will be more evident.

Agree. That’s why I only focus on first half. That’s where you see Spurs hang with their opponent, then let it slide in the 3rd or 4th quarter. People have problem equating losing = terrible defense. The Spurs are one of assist leaders as a team, 4th at 27 assists per game. They don’t have problem scoring and should be better once they stop trying to lose games. I don’t buy on Spurs terrible defensive rating on a “tanking” year. People want Wemby but don’t want terrible defense. Geez

[JPB]

Man that’ awful defense on Lillard there. He’s suppose to let him pass and try to chase block him. But nooo, he makes Lillard shoot 3pt over him, which we all know would make highlight reels if they go in. Terrible defense :lol

If you wanna laugh on Sochan's defense, pick another play. This particular play, he actually plays great defense, disturbing and forcing Liilard to give the ball away... then going for the rebound.

And not guessing or being unlucky that the rebound is gonna fall on a blazer player who will toss it all the way back to a lazy Lillard who gave up on the play isn't bad defense. And like the tweet says, when defended by sochan, Lillard went 2/7, 0/4 on 3...

[spurraider21]

Defense is over rated. You need great offensive players and shooting. NBA players are too strong offensively and can score on anyone.

Need to build around offense not defense.


Sochan is overrated here. Guys score and shoot right over him. He doesn't have the best vertical lift and is not a good rebounder.
these are consecutive posts, btw

"everyone can score on everybody, so who cares" followed by "i saw people scoring over Sochan, he sucks"

[spurraider21]

do you guys remember how absolutely livid and upset rascal was after we won in 2014?

[KingKev]

If you wanna laugh on Sochan's defense, pick another play. This particular play, he actually plays great defense, disturbing and forcing Liilard to give the ball away... then going for the rebound.

And not guessing or being unlucky that the rebound is gonna fall on a blazer player who will toss it all the way back to a lazy Lillard who gave up on the play isn't bad defense. And like the tweet says, when defended by sochan, Lillard went 2/7, 0/4 on 3...

Suspect John B was being sarcastic

[rascal]

these are consecutive posts, btw

"everyone can score on everybody, so who cares" followed by "i saw people scoring over Sochan, he sucks"

Sochan was drafted to be a defensive stopper. You don't draft guys in the lottery for defense. They better be strong offensive players in the lottery or they are wasted picks because the top scorers can score on anyone.

That's how The Warriors beat Boston, they were better shooting the ball and better offensively.
Boston was the better defensive team but defense coundn't carry them over GS.

[John B]

Sochan was drafted to be a defensive stopper. You don't draft guys in the lottery for defense. They better be strong offensive players in the lottery or they are wasted picks because the top scorers can score on anyone.

That's how The Warriors beat Boston, they were better shooting the ball and better offensively.
Boston was the better defensive team but defense coundn't carry them over GS.

So defense does not win Championships? I’m changing sports to watch :lol

Dubs don’t just outscore people, they are one of the best defensive teams in their championship runs. MJ/Pippen were top defensive players. Tell me which championship teams won in sheer offense?? (Jeopardy tune here)…

[rascal]

So defense does not win Championships? I’m changing sports to watch :lol

Dubs don’t just outscore people, they are one of the best defensive teams in their championship runs. MJ/Pippen were top defensive players. Tell me which championship teams won in sheer offense?? (Jeopardy tune here)…

All those teams had top scorers or the best player in the league. Jordan was the best during his time. GS won with offense. The Lakers Magic Johnson years.

Basketball is an offensive game, so easy to score baskets for NBA players. The top scorers don't get shut down often.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

do you guys remember how absolutely livid and upset rascal was after we won in 2014?

He sure was. Just like every other Laker fan.

There are currently a number of regular posters who'd be incredibly upset if the Spurs are lucky enough to get the 1st pick in the draft.

[John B]

All those teams had top scorers or the best player in the league. Jordan was the best during his time. GS won with offense. The Lakers Magic Johnson years.

Basketball is an offensive game, so easy to score baskets for NBA players. The top scorers don't get shut down often.

I could give you top scorers who did not win Finals, Iverson, Carmelo, TMac, Harden and the list can go on. Don Nelson’s team(s) could always outscore with his score first mentality, Doug Moe’s Nuggets?? averaged 126 points. Did they win any championships? Did Timmy/ DRob twin towers “outscore”? Geez, I would think a Spurs fan would know. Yes offense is very much necessary. But the ability to stop the opponent to me is more critical. That’s where Spurs hang it’s hat especially during the Twin towers. Scores could be in the 80’s because of Defense. They would pace the game, keep it close, then put a lock on the last possessions, and score the last shots. But not outscore, big difference. Same with Dubs, MJ’s Bulls. They can score anytime, but Malone/Stockton couldn’t in that last minute of 1997 Finals That’s defense my friend.

[rascal]

I could give you top scorers who did not win Finals, Iverson, Carmelo, TMac, Harden and the list can go on. Don Nelson’s team(s) could always outscore with his score first mentality, Doug Moe’s Nuggets?? averaged 126 points. Did they win any championships? Did Timmy/ DRob twin towers “outscore”? Geez, I would think a Spurs fan would know. Yes offense is very much necessary. But the ability to stop the opponent to me is more critical. That’s where Spurs hang it’s hat especially during the Twin towers. Scores could be in the 80’s because of Defense. They would pace the game, keep it close, then put a lock on the last possessions, and score the last shots. But not outscore, big difference. Same with Dubs, MJ’s Bulls. They can score anytime, but Malone/Stockton couldn’t in that last minute of 1997 Finals That’s defense my friend.

The Lakers showtime outscored people. Offensive play is more entertaining too. Spurs of the 70s were more entertaining than the Duncan teams.
Also Doctor J and the 76ers outscored people. You need great shooting and scorers. Can't build without a couple of star offensive players and at least a top three player in the league.

You could assemble the top five defensive players who are limited offensively and you'd never win.

[rascal]

He sure was. Just like every other Laker fan.

There are currently a number of regular posters who'd be incredibly upset if the Spurs are lucky enough to get the 1st pick in the draft.

Some people think Wemby is injury prone and don't want him drafted by the spurs.

[rascal]

I could give you top scorers who did not win Finals, Iverson, Carmelo, TMac, Harden and the list can go on. Don Nelson’s team(s) could always outscore with his score first mentality, Doug Moe’s Nuggets?? averaged 126 points. Did they win any championships? Did Timmy/ DRob twin towers “outscore”? Geez, I would think a Spurs fan would know. Yes offense is very much necessary. But the ability to stop the opponent to me is more critical. That’s where Spurs hang it’s hat especially during the Twin towers. Scores could be in the 80’s because of Defense. They would pace the game, keep it close, then put a lock on the last possessions, and score the last shots. But not outscore, big difference. Same with Dubs, MJ’s Bulls. They can score anytime, but Malone/Stockton couldn’t in that last minute of 1997 Finals That’s defense my friend.

And I can give you top defensive teams that did not win championships.

[Mr. Body]

I legit can't believe we're debating whether defense wins championships. Of course they do. Can't win one without defense, even in this era.

[John B]

The Lakers showtime outscored people. Offensive play is more entertaining too. Spurs of the 70s were more entertaining than the Duncan teams.
Also Doctor J and the 76ers outscored people. You need great shooting and scorers. Can't build without a couple of star offensive players and at least a top three player in the league.

You could assemble the top five defensive players who are limited offensively and you'd never win.

Are you going to really suggest Showtime Lakers were just all offense, no defense??! Cooper, Green? Those guys were modern day 3andD, with a 6’9” guard defending 80’s basketball, Kareem while at his sixty’s could still defend the middle. Rambis would throw himself all-over the court, Worthy and Thompson were athletic wings. Come on man. Showtime Lakers might be offensively entertaining, but they also played great defense. No championship team did not play great defense. Otherwise, you’d have Doug Moe’s Nuggets hoisting trophies every year! Geez I can’t believe I’m having this argument with you :lol

Going back to our squad, I think our young core are showing they can score with the 4th best assists in the league at 27 assists per game. They are last in Defensive Rating (I think mostly because they are tanking, while you don’t even see Pop’s jugular vein popping when they miss assignments), but that I believe will improve because Spurs have the personnel, youth, athleticism and because it’s Pop’s team. I honestly like where they are right now, developing young promising players, plus a prospect of adding a top 5 pick next year, maybe another 1 or 2 FRP from Poeltl, JRIch or McD for next years deep draft. I have no winning expectations, just lose as much to get a better odd at top pick. It’s all good for me :toast

[Mr. Body]

Are you going to really suggest Showtime Lakers were just all offense, no defense??! Cooper, Green? Those guys were modern day 3andD, with a 6’9” guard defending 80’s basketball, Kareem while at his sixty’s could still defend the middle. Rambis would throw himself all-over the court, Worthy and Thompson were athletic wings. Come on man. Showtime Lakers might be offensively entertaining, but they also played great defense. No championship team did not play great defense. Otherwise, you’d have Doug Moe’s Nuggets hoisting trophies every year! Geez I can’t believe I’m having this argument with you :lol

Going back to our squad, I think our young core are showing they can score with the 4th best assists in the league at 27 assists per game. They are last in Defensive Rating (I think mostly because they are tanking, while you don’t even see Pop’s jugular vein popping when they miss assignments), but that I believe will improve because Spurs have the personnel, youth, athleticism and because it’s Pop’s team. I honestly like where they are right now, developing young promising players, plus a prospect of adding a top 5 pick next year, maybe another 1 or 2 FRP from Poeltl, JRIch or McD for next years deep draft. I have no winning expectations, just lose as much to get a better odd at top pick. It’s all good for me :toast

I honestly think Pop and the staff have ignored defense at this point. Like you say, he's having no reaction to blown assignments, players failing to get back on breaks. It does suggest a shadow tank job.

[exstatic]

I honestly think Pop and the staff have ignored defense at this point. Like you say, he's having no reaction to blown assignments, players failing to get back on breaks. It does suggest a shadow tank job.

Yup. If we get pick 1 or pick 2, this years rookies won’t know what hit them next year.

[jjspur]

I honestly think Pop and the staff have ignored defense at this point. Like you say, he's having no reaction to blown assignments, players failing to get back on breaks. It does suggest a shadow tank job.

A shadow tank job ? No its the real thing. Blown defensive assignment .... no big deal we're tanking for Wemby. (Don't tell Adam Silver wink wink).
Actually I think pop is counting the days until he retires to the front office or the wine cellar.

[tonight...you]

A shadow tank job ? No its the real thing. Blown defensive assignment .... no big deal we're tanking for Wemby. (Don't tell Adam Silver wink wink).
Actually I think pop is counting the days until he retires to the front office or the wine cellar.
I actually think the opposite.
Since his wife died, I think he's gone full Liam Neeson, just keeping himself busy with the only thing he loves besides wine.

Of course, we could both be wrong.
Just assumptions.

[Mr. Body]

Pop can literally retired any time he wants. He can stand up and walk off the bench right now if he wanted. Clearly he wants to stay for some reason.

[ace3g]

While Sochan is far from a finished product offensively, he already has spots on the floor that he can get to with ease thanks to his ball handling skills.

[tonight...you]

While Sochan is far from a finished product offensively, he already has spots on the floor that he can get to with ease thanks to his ball handling skills.
Year 3 is going to show a Sochan that we're all going to be proud of, barring injury.
He could become what everyone thought Ben Simmons could be.

[Mr. Body]

Sochan is fast for his size. He's going to get stonger and his handles are going to improve even more - they're very good for a PF rookie but a little loose at times, pus he forces passes. He'll clean that up.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/spurs/status/1619510238905868289

[Mr. Body]

Yeah, the platform of abilities Sochan has is enticing. He's dynamic and improving a great deal already. Let's get some good players around him.

[ace3g]

Cn-y1YXt_i0

Cn6AqkbriZN

Cn3cSMRth5Z

Cn2nDYopayg

CnkMbojJld7

[offset formation]

Sochan putting up better statistics over the last 20 games than Jabari Smith.

https://twitter.com/SpursCulture/status/1619398327984082944?s=19

[jjspur]

I actually think the opposite.
Since his wife died, I think he's gone full Liam Neeson, just keeping himself busy with the only thing he loves besides wine.

Of course, we could both be wrong.
Just assumptions.

Pop used to be so animated for the smallest of things and now it seems the fire just isn't quite the same. Maybe its his age or the age of the kids playing, I don't know. Maybe he's just mellowing out.
Does his contract end this year ? He could always just move to the front office and watch another coach have all the headaches. Like you said , just assumptions, only pop knows for sure.

[Mr. Body]

His shooting improvement has been terrific.

[mystargtr34]

Lol rascal the Warriors beating the Celtics was mostly due to Jayson Tatum absolutely shitting the bed shooting 35% from the FIELD on high volume. Part of that was the Warriors defense (Wiggins and good help D) but a lot of it was Tatum flat out choking/being tired from the previous 7 games series against the Bucks and Heat.

[Mr. Body]

Lol rascal the Warriors beating the Celtics was mostly due to Jayson Tatum absolutely shitting the bed shooting 35% from the FIELD on high volume. Part of that was the Warriors defense (Wiggins and good help D) but a lot of it was Tatum flat out choking/being tired from the previous 7 games series against the Bucks and Heat.

Don't remember where I saw the stats, but the Celtics are the least clutch team in the NBA or somewhere close. They are terrible down the stretch.

[exstatic]

Pop used to be so animated for the smallest of things and now it seems the fire just isn't quite the same. Maybe its his age or the age of the kids playing, I don't know. Maybe he's just mellowing out.
Does his contract end this year ? He could always just move to the front office and watch another coach have all the headaches. Like you said , just assumptions, only pop knows for sure.

Is it really fair to yell at guys for defensive lapses that help the tank?

[tonight...you]

Pop used to be so animated for the smallest of things and now it seems the fire just isn't quite the same. Maybe its his age or the age of the kids playing, I don't know. Maybe he's just mellowing out.
Does his contract end this year ? He could always just move to the front office and watch another coach have all the headaches. Like you said , just assumptions, only pop knows for sure.
I agree with a few here in the "stealth tank", not in-so-much in tanking, but truly developing the team's O and disciplining the D later.
Sochan is looking like he could be such an exciting player by Year 3 right now and with his D capabilities, once harnessed.

Get a Wemby and the sky might be the limit.

Might not even be that kind of guy, but develop these guys O that have natural D tendencies Like Sochan and Vassel and maybe you can get somewhere.

[ace3g]

Wemby/Poeltl/Sochan/Keldon/PG fun lineup.

[tonight...you]

Wemby/Poeltl/Sochan/Keldon/PG fun lineup.
Keldon SG?
Vassell bubba.
More fun lineup.

[K...]

it might not be tanking. after LMA pop learned players aren't motivated by defense. pops personality was really honed for Duncan. If hes' not here, and there are no veteran defenders, what do you base your coaching on? Can't yell at players for such poor stakes, they''ll turn on you. When the players are ready to learn defense they will, or the team will get veteran defenders.

The other thing for sure is that defense has no place in the regular season except maybe in the last quarter. I remember the spurs used to focus on ending quarters with intensity but now why bother.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1343352870603796483/tlPlq9KU_normal.jpg
Jordan Howenstine @AirlessJordan
(https://twitter.com/AirlessJordan)56s (https://twitter.com/AirlessJordan/status/1619534989959520256)
Jeremy sochan is the first and only teenager in San Antonio Spurs history to score 30 or more points in a single game.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1343352870603796483/tlPlq9KU_normal.jpg
Jordan Howenstine @AirlessJordan
(https://twitter.com/AirlessJordan)14m (https://twitter.com/AirlessJordan/status/1619533670980927490)
Only four rookies in Spurs history to score 30+ points in a game:Tim DuncanDavid RobinsonWillie AndersonJEREMY SOCHAN (tonight)







https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1343352870603796483/tlPlq9KU_normal.jpg (https://twitter.com/AirlessJordan)Jordan Howenstine (https://twitter.com/AirlessJordan)@AirlessJordan (https://twitter.com/AirlessJordan)



My fault fam… And Greg Anderson

9:25pm · 28 Jan 2023 (https://twitter.com/AirlessJordan/status/1619537091419054080) · Twitter for iPhone (https://help.twitter.com/en/using-twitter/how-to-tweet#source-labels)

[offset formation]

it might not be tanking. after LMA pop learned players aren't motivated by defense. pops personality was really honed for Duncan. If hes' not here, and there are no veteran defenders, what do you base your coaching on? Can't yell at players for such poor stakes, they''ll turn on you. When the players are ready to learn defense they will, or the team will get veteran defenders.

The other thing for sure is that defense has no place in the regular season except maybe in the last quarter. I remember the spurs used to focus on ending quarters with intensity but now why bother.

Wrong place to cast blame. LMA was our only defensive standout for a couple of years. At one point towards the end, his age and injuries reduced his effectiveness but to say he was the reason for the defensive slide is way off the mark. Had we no LMA it would have begun sooner and crashed harder.

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/AirlessJordan/status/1619539817813151745

[slick'81]

Jeremy magic sochan

[offset formation]

Great stuff for Jeremy. His hard work is paying off.

https://twitter.com/AirlessJordan/status/1619534989959520256?s=19

[heyheymymy]

I can't believe how well he played tonight. Incredible stuff

[Dejounte]

Jeremy plays so much different now than he did in the beginning of the season. I don’t remember such a quick improvement from a player. You normally see that from season to season, not in a span of 40 games. It’s not just his shot, but the way he’s handling the ball. He’s keeping his torso low which is what good ball handlers do. Just crazy stuff.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Love how he's now often raising his hands and asking for the ball when he's at the three point line, instead of hiding or passing up shots. His confidence has increased tremendously. He doesn't hide, he looks for more responsibility and this is great for his development. He doesn't need to become a 40% three point shooter, but even getting to 34-35% will draw defenders closer to him, which would unlock his dribbling and passing game even more.

[Maddog]

Jeremy plays so much different now than he did in the beginning of the season. I don’t remember such a quick improvement from a player. You normally see that from season to season, not in a span of 40 games. It’s not just his shot, but the way he’s handling the ball. He’s keeping his torso low which is what good ball handlers do. Just crazy stuff.

He's got crazy stats from the last 6 games
19-22 FT, 10-18 3PT*
I've never seen a player make that kind of FT improvement in season especially one who never shown any ability in college and even his stats from international play

- and I think that has driven the rest of his improvement

*
https://www.spurstalk.com/jeremy-sochan-scouting-report-strengths-weaknesses-spurs-outlook/
TThe Case Against Jeremy Sochan

The worry with Sochan is his shooting. He shot only 29.6% from three-point range and 58.9% from the free throw line. Unfortunately, those percentages are what scouts have come to expect from Sochan. Throughout his career, which includes stops in various locations across the globe, he has consistently been a sub-30% three-point shooter and a sub-60% free throw shooter.

The more I study his shooting motion, the more skeptical I become that Sochan will develop into an adequate shooter. Much like Killian Hayes (who I soured on prior to the 2020 draft due to his shooting mechanics), Sochan has a two-handed shot that results in his thumbs guiding the ball during his release. While that doesn’t automatically mean he won’t learn how to shoot (former Spurs sharpshooter Chuck Person was also a thumber), it’ll make his journey to becoming a league average shooter more arduous than most.

If Sochan can’t learn to shoot it with more accuracy, his overall impact will suffer. He’s a good ball-handler and passer for a big … but not so good that those abilities will allow him to stay on the court without a jumper. In a scenario where he ends up shooting like Killian Hayes (the Detroit Pistons drafted him seventh overall and he’s a career 26.8% three-point shooter), Sochan’s ceiling is likely as a bench player on a contending team. Think of a rich man’s Keita Bates-Diop.

Will the Spurs want to gamble their lottery pick on Sochan shooting it straight? Due to their roster’s lack of defense at power forward, they might.

[CGD]

I didn’t appreciate how dramatic the FT improvement has been, wow

[exstatic]

The FT improvement has driven the improvements in the rest of his game. He’s more aggressive with the ball, because he’s not worried about FTs. His FT shooting motion is also bleeding over into his 3 ball. Muscle memory. He’s no longer flaring his elbow on the shot. The improved 3 ball is opening up his drive game.

He played PG in the 4th and OT last night. Jones never saw the floor.

[RC_Drunkford]

of course it's early, but he's outperforming his draft position and looks like a top 5 pick. I'm curious what he can do in one offseason with the speed that he's developing in

[Dejounte]

The mid range turnaround J looks like his bread and butter. I’m glad he doesn’t look to be a cookie cutter wing who only relies on 3’s and inside shots with no mid range game to speak of. It’s why I’m not that high on Brandon Miller coming out of this draft. Sochan was speaking with Paul after the game and if he could somehow gain his mentorship, it would be perfect.

[Spursfanfromafar]

It is amazing how Sochan has allowed himself to be coached hard and well to try out a routine that could be subject to ridicule. At the same time, it is amazing how coaches Pop and Brown found a remedy for a historically poor shooter to make adjustments on the fly and improve dramatically.

[Maddog]

It is amazing how Sochan has allowed himself to be coached hard and well to try out a routine that could be subject to ridicule. At the same time, it is amazing how coaches Pop and Brown found a remedy for a historically poor shooter to make adjustments on the fly and improve dramatically.

Without Chip Engelland

[KingKev]

I’m most impressed that instead of hitting the so called rookie wall he is running through it.

[BacktoBasics]

It is amazing how Sochan has allowed himself to be coached hard and well to try out a routine that could be subject to ridicule. At the same time, it is amazing how coaches Pop and Brown found a remedy for a historically poor shooter to make adjustments on the fly and improve dramatically.

Exactly. Positive attitude and an open mind matter.

Then the mouth breathers here want to complain about drafting players that speak to the team culture.

[ace3g]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=098-lWauwqA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGsXyyt0vBM

[John B]

That 3rd shot reverse layup was MJish nifty using the board, the elbow shots, pass where Brahnam will be, very impressive for the 19 years old. I agree with exstatic his one-hand FT is fixing that elbow muscle memory and opening the windows for his other shots, mid-range, 3pts and getting aggressive on the post, attacking and not afraid to get fouled where he’s 74% in the FT since the one-handed switch. Plus his ability to find open man when defender sucks in, that’s Kobe-ish pass to an open Fischer. Good stuff :hungry::hungry:

[John B]

Exactly. Positive attitude and an open mind matter.

Then the mouth breathers here want to complain about drafting players that speak to the team culture.

I think Sochan is very much Spurs-Culture type of guy with his defensive mentality and willing to get coached. The trash-talk will be quite new to Pop but he likes the “nasty” in Sochan, never backing down. Collins has the same swagger, unrelenting regardless it’s a bigger guy and possibly posterized, but still blocking for the sake of defending. I could just imagine Pop feels when Poeltl cowers against bigger C’s and possibly tipping the scale to move him with FRP’s, otherwise Pop would just resign him. I remember his frustrations with LMA.

Anyways, we are seeing some alpha mentality from our young core, Keldon, Vassell, Sochan, Blake, Collins. Malaki still learning to be more aggressive when the ball is in his hand, but lately has not been shy letting them fly. I like it.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnpAwCxXEAA-B5X?format=jpg&name=large

https://twitter.com/NBADynastyADP/status/1619744549710209025

[ginobilized]

Truly inspiring stuff from Sochan and the coaching staff.
Seeing his rapid growth, team chemistry AND dropping down the standings is a trifecta.
Not many players or teams can pull this off very well.

[CGD]

If we get wemby and keep jak, is the idea that Sochan slides to the 3?

[JeffDuncan]

If we get wemby and keep jak, is the idea that Sochan slides to the 3?


If Sochan can continue his development, maybe not quite at the same pace - since his current pace is like something out of science fiction - we could be looking at our point guard of the future. Wouldn’t that be a story? I’m not prepared at the moment to call it impossible.

But yeah, if he keeps going, he might play any position, except I would not want to waste him at C.

[scott]

Last 6 games:

30.7 mpg, 18.2 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 3.0 apg. 50% FT%, 55.6% 3P%, 86.4% FT%

Compare to some other top rookies the last 6 games:

Banchero: 30.8 mpg, 16.7 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 2.7 apg, 36.5% FG%, 25.9 3P%, 78.0% FT%
Ivey: 32.3 mpg, 15.5 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 6.7 apg, 39.2% FG%, 22.6 3P%, 77.4 FT%
Mathurin: 31.6 mpg, 21.3 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 1.2 apg, 45.2% FG%, 26.9 3P%, 86.5% FT%
Jabari Smith: 27.3 mpg, 10.2 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 2.0 apg, 35.9% FG%, 13.6 3P%, 60.0% FT%
Athletic God Sharpe: 19.9 mpg, 8.2 ppg, 1.8rpg, 0.2 apg, 50.0% FG%, 33.3 3P%, 83.3% FT%
Keegan Murray: 35.8 mpg, 16.0 ppg, 7.3rpg, 1.0 apg, 58.9% FG%, 58.3 3P%, 100.0% FT%
Jalen Duren: 26.6 mpg, 14.8 ppg, 9.8rpg, 0.7 apg, 80.0% FG%, N/A 3P%, 85.0% FT%

Extremely small sample size, but based on the last 6 games Sochan would be in contention for All-Rookie 1st team and maybe even a dark horse ROY contender. Let's see if it can keep this up>

[scott]

If we get wemby and keep jak, is the idea that Sochan slides to the 3?

Posed this idea in an earlier thread... and someone (can't remember who) correctly pointed out that Wemby and Sochan can both be viewed as flexible 3/4 options. This would be a tremendous boon to our defense. In theory PG/Devin/Soch/Wemby/Jak should be pretty good on defense... though tbh I'd probably still look to put a package together to land a more "lead dog" Guard, meaning sending out Devin or moving him to the bench. I'd personally try and package Devin and Keldon for Ivey or Mathurin and hope either of those teams view 2 as greater than 1.

[offset formation]

If Sochan can continue his development, maybe not quite at the same pace - since his current pace is like something out of science fiction - we could be looking at our point guard of the future. Wouldn’t that be a story? I’m not prepared at the moment to call it impossible.

But yeah, if he keeps going, he might play any position, except I would not want to waste him at C.

I've been saying that's a possibility since draft day. Though Wembanyama is no slouch with the ball in his hand either. Could easily be a scenario of situational point guard on demand between everyone but Poeltl. Would really be unprecedented.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1619742225243545600/HQUIz5uQ?format=jpg&name=orig

https://cdn.nba.com/manage/2023/01/sochan.spurs_.png

https://projectspurs.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/20230128_SAS_RT_PHX_72-scaled.jpeg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnnHoxAX0AAuw83?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[Fireball]

our cornerstone ... not Keldon or Devin ... this guy!

[KingKev]

Since pulling receipts is enjoyable…


SOCHAN WILL NEVER RUN POINT

[tonight...you]

Since pulling receipts is enjoyable…


SOCHAN WILL NEVER RUN POINT
Lol. My dude...
Props.

[KingKev]

Lol. My dude...
Props.

He has an incredible skill set best utilized as a big wing/point forward archetype.

[tonight...you]

He has an incredible skill set best utilized as a big wing/point forward archetype.
Skinny Diaw, if he can continue to improve that shooting.
I have all the confidcence in the world for him, after seeing his willingness and ability to improve his game selflessly.
Pop is probably absolutely loving him.

[The Truth #6]

I despise Chris Paul, but there’s some elements to his conniving attitude that would probably fit well with Jeremy‘s mental approach to the game. But overall, Jeremy has been a delight this season and it’s great to see him getting publicity in the press for his improvement. It would be great if pop started limiting Jones minutes: it would actually be fairly classic, limit his minutes in a contract year to attenuate his contract ceiling, while letting Jeremy “run wild” as a point guard, because it seems like that’s our best version of our offense, with him freelancing.

[Degoat]

If the plan is to play Sochan at PG going forward, wonder if that means if the spurs landed the #2 pick they would skip on Scoot Henderson

[TD 21]

:lmao At thinking Sochan at PG is a viable option moving forward.

In the Wembanyama hypothetical, Sochan becomes the third big to start off with the long term plan of him going back to starting PF when (if?) the former eventually becomes more of a full time C.

[mo7888]

If the plan is to play Sochan at PG going forward, wonder if that means if the spurs landed the #2 pick they would skip on Scoot Henderson

I'm not sure of Sochan's play, as good as it is, is enough to pass on Scoot, however if we did land at 2 I'd hope we'd explore what we could get for Scoot to move back if it wasn't to far.

For instance, if Orlando coveted Scoot and had the 4th and 7th picks (from the Chicago trade) I'd trade back for those picks if it's on the table.

[TD 21]

I'm not sure of Sochan's play, as good as it is, is enough to pass on Scoot, however if we did land at 2 I'd hope we'd explore what we could get for Scoot to move back if it wasn't to far.

For instance, if Orlando coveted Scoot and had the 4th and 7th picks (from the Chicago trade) I'd trade back for those picks if it's on the table.

I am; it's definitely not.

They'd be insane to even consider passing up a player who might have an All-NBA ceiling period, let alone because of a player who plays a different position who probably has an elite role player ceiling.

Even though Henderson is the type who wouldn't be long for the Spurs, I wouldn't trade back either, I'd slow play it.

[spurraider21]

of course it's early, but he's outperforming his draft position and looks like a top 5 pick. I'm curious what he can do in one offseason with the speed that he's developing in
at this rate he will be prime Kawhi by end of the season and goat by start of next season

[John B]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnpAwCxXEAA-B5X?format=jpg&name=large

https://twitter.com/NBADynastyADP/status/1619744549710209025

Chip who? :lol

[mo7888]

I am; it's definitely not.

They'd be insane to even consider passing up a player who might have an All-NBA ceiling period, let alone because of a player who plays a different position who probably has an elite role player ceiling.

Even though Henderson is the type who wouldn't be long for the Spurs, I wouldn't trade back either, I'd slow play it.

If you (meaning the Spurs scouting team) have Scoot rated as a multi generational player whose much higher than the players behind him then, yes you absolutely take him.

My suggestion wasn't based on Sochan at all, it's based on where I see him compared to the others behind him. I've got a huge gap between 1 and 2 but, the gap between 2 and 6 is much smaller in my estimation. I've got Scoot #2 overall but I don't have him so valued that I'd rather have him over Amen+Whitmore or Smith +Whitmore.

[John B]

I'm not sure of Sochan's play, as good as it is, is enough to pass on Scoot, however if we did land at 2 I'd hope we'd explore what we could get for Scoot to move back if it wasn't to far.

For instance, if Orlando coveted Scoot and had the 4th and 7th picks (from the Chicago trade) I'd trade back for those picks if it's on the table.

Nah Scoot is a more explosive PG ala Ja. I’d play both of them and use Sochan at Point Forward, Vassell, Keldon and Collins to complete the roster, supposing they trade Poeltl for 2 FRP’s and get another athletic 6’7ish SF to replace JRich/McD. But I wouldn’t pass up a potential All-NBA talent like Scoot.

[Dejounte]

If the Spurs draft Scoot, they should include Tre in any trade package they’re looking at now and all the way til draft night. It would probably make other teams’ offers more enticing since Tre might have good value right now.

Between Scoot, Whitmore, and George, the Spurs have an opportunity to add a potent #1 go-to scorer that they haven’t had since DeMar left. Exciting times.

[KingKev]

If the Spurs draft Scoot, they should include Tre in any trade package they’re looking at now and all the way til draft night. It would probably make other teams’ offers more enticing since Tre might have good value right now.

Between Scoot, Whitmore, and George, the Spurs have an opportunity to add a potent #1 go-to scorer that they haven’t had since DeMar left. Exciting times.

You are the same person who called me out last year when I said Tre had trade value into the 2022 trade deadline. Also, your order of operation is wrong. I thought you were a quant?

[lefty20]

If the plan is to play Sochan at PG going forward, wonder if that means if the spurs landed the #2 pick they would skip on Scoot Henderson

This might be a firable offense, tbh.

You don't worry about fits, simply take the BPA at #2. Especially since there's a decent fall off after Scoot.

[mo7888]

Nah Scoot is a more explosive PG ala Ja. I’d play both of them and use Sochan at Point Forward, Vassell, Keldon and Collins to complete the roster, supposing they trade Poeltl for 2 FRP’s and get another athletic 6’7ish SF to replace JRich/McD. But I wouldn’t pass up a potential All-NBA talent like Scoot.

It wasn't 'either-or' between Scoot and Sochan. I was comparing Scoot's value to two combined players in the top 6 or 7.

[Mr. Body]

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1619742225243545600/HQUIz5uQ?format=jpg&name=orig

https://cdn.nba.com/manage/2023/01/sochan.spurs_.png

https://projectspurs.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/20230128_SAS_RT_PHX_72-scaled.jpeg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnnHoxAX0AAuw83?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

Have to say, I don't like Chris Paul, but seeing him talking with Sochan after the game is pretty cool.

[JPB]

I am; it's definitely not.

They'd be insane to even consider passing up a player who might have an All-NBA ceiling period, let alone because of a player who plays a different position who probably has an elite role player ceiling.

Even though Henderson is the type who wouldn't be long for the Spurs, I wouldn't trade back either, I'd slow play it.

Yeah that would be like passing on Steve Nash because you have Boris Diaw. the two played together and had a good run before they got Horry'ed...

[JPB]

https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1619742225243545600/HQUIz5uQ?format=jpg&name=orig

https://cdn.nba.com/manage/2023/01/sochan.spurs_.png

https://projectspurs.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/20230128_SAS_RT_PHX_72-scaled.jpeg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnnHoxAX0AAuw83?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

Who's that guy on the background? He wanted to be on the picture or what?

[Dejounte]

You are the same person who called me out last year when I said Tre had trade value into the 2022 trade deadline. Also, your order of operation is wrong. I thought you were a quant?

You know what’s sad? We could have an interesting conversation about this (or about anything) but because you are the way you are and the choices you make to constantly be antagonistic about everything that there’s really no hope left. So there’s no use in explaining myself and you can continue on with your endless cycle of unproductive shit-talking with me and the couple of other people you’ve latched onto. That’s obviously a pleasurable experience for you.

[JPB]

You know what’s sad? We could have an interesting conversation about this (or about anything) but because you are the way you are and the choices you make to constantly be antagonistic about everything that there’s really no hope left. So there’s no use in explaining myself and you can continue on with your endless cycle of unproductive shit-talking with me and the couple of other people you’ve latched onto. That’s obviously a pleasurable experience for you.

You basically explained why I put the guy on ignore. Hopeless.

[The Truth #6]

:lmao At thinking Sochan at PG is a viable option moving forward.

In the Wembanyama hypothetical, Sochan becomes the third big to start off with the long term plan of him going back to starting PF when (if?) the former eventually becomes more of a full time C.

I’m trying to remember if I’ve ever seen you use the laughing emoji and agreed with you, (insert laughing emoji), but sure, having Jeremy as full-time point guard has challenges, but it’s called development, and besides, the whole team has questions for who can successfully play point. Jones is competent and minimizes mistakes but is not dynamic like Jeremy when he gets on a role. I don’t see what is so definitive about anything. Would I give Jeremy more time practicing the point? Yes, what is the argument not to?

[Ariel]

If the Spurs draft Scoot, they should include Tre in any trade package they’re looking at now and all the way til draft night. It would probably make other teams’ offers more enticing since Tre might have good value right now.

Between Scoot, Whitmore, and George, the Spurs have an opportunity to add a potent #1 go-to scorer that they haven’t had since DeMar left. Exciting times.
I haven't had much time yet to watch actual college basketball yet, so I'm basically going mostly by clips and highlights. But so far Keyonte George seems to me like an inefficient volume scorer (he's shooting below 40% overall), though he's about 35% from 3 and 80% from the line. Granted, his shot selection should improve with time, but also he seems rather smallish, listed at 6'4" but probably a couple of inches shorter in reality. Not a bad ṕrospect by any means, but IMO underwhelming as the product of a tanking season.
With Cam Whitmore I'm more optimistic, I like his combination of ball handling, skills, scoring potential, and athleticism, but I'm also worried he's a bit undersized (listed at 6'7" but probably closer to 6'6") to play the 4 in the NBA. I think he should be a very good pro in the NBA, but again, I don't think he's the player you build around. Still, he's someone at least worthy of serious consideration if we pick outside the top 2.
All in all, for the time being I'll defer to those of you who have watched more than I have, but I can't help but to feel underwhelmed by what I've seen outside the top 2... so far I'm leaning towards Whitmore and Brandon Miller, but really, really hoping it doesn't get to that.

[CGD]

I'm not sure of Sochan's play, as good as it is, is enough to pass on Scoot, however if we did land at 2 I'd hope we'd explore what we could get for Scoot to move back if it wasn't to far.

For instance, if Orlando coveted Scoot and had the 4th and 7th picks (from the Chicago trade) I'd trade back for those picks if it's on the table.

Tempting but I think spurs have to go Scoot at 2. He projects to be a big time talent and is at a position of urgent need for the team and in the modern NBA

[Maddog]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fnm_kkiaUAERKlZ?format=jpg&name=large

[Mr. Body]

I haven't had much time yet to watch actual college basketball yet, so I'm basically going mostly by clips and highlights. But so far Keyonte George seems to me like an inefficient volume scorer (he's shooting below 40% overall), though he's about 35% from 3 and 80% from the line. Granted, his shot selection should improve with time, but also he seems rather smallish, listed at 6'4" but probably a couple of inches shorter in reality. Not a bad ṕrospect by any means, but IMO underwhelming as the product of a tanking season.
With Cam Whitmore I'm more optimistic, I like his combination of ball handling, skills, scoring potential, and athleticism, but I'm also worried he's a bit undersized (listed at 6'7" but probably closer to 6'6") to play the 4 in the NBA. I think he should be a very good pro in the NBA, but again, I don't think he's the player you build around. Still, he's someone at least worthy of serious consideration if we pick outside the top 2.
All in all, for the time being I'll defer to those of you who have watched more than I have, but I can't help but to feel underwhelmed by what I've seen outside the top 2... so far I'm leaning towards Whitmore and Brandon Miller, but really, really hoping it doesn't get to that.

I'm firmly in the camp of this being a very down draft year. As good as this year's was, if missing a clear number one, this next one looks decidedly unimpressive.

[gilmor]

Sochan knack for the game is way advanced beyond his age.. I am really impressed with his demeanour and his 'not-fazed' attitude playing the big boys in the league..

[mo7888]

Tempting but I think spurs have to go Scoot at 2. He projects to be a big time talent and is at a position of urgent need for the team and in the modern NBA

That's a legitimate opinion for sure... I'm just not quite sold on him being that level of a player, although I readily admit that the consensus out there agrees with your take.

[Ariel]

That's a legitimate opinion for sure... I'm just not quite sold on him being that level of a player, although I readily admit that the consensus out there agrees with your take.
He's the best prospect in years (since Ja in '19, I have him before Haliburton, Cunningham, Giddey, Ivey) at our biggest position of need. No way we pass him for anyone other than Wemby.

[spurraider21]

The spurs aren’t good enough to pass on the best player available for hypothetical fits. 2 years ago we were angry at the thought of picking guards because we already had Murray Walker and white.

Just keep stacking as much talent you can for now and worry about fit later

[exstatic]

If the plan is to play Sochan at PG going forward, wonder if that means if the spurs landed the #2 pick they would skip on Scoot Henderson

You don’t skip on a pick. That’s a free reward for a team behind you. You trade back for assets.

[Mr. Body]

I would loooove to trade the second pick for a ransom if we don't get Vic. That would be awesome.

[XDT76]

I’m trying to remember if I’ve ever seen you use the laughing emoji and agreed with you, (insert laughing emoji), but sure, having Jeremy as full-time point guard has challenges, but it’s called development, and besides, the whole team has questions for who can successfully play point. Jones is competent and minimizes mistakes but is not dynamic like Jeremy when he gets on a role. I don’t see what is so definitive about anything. Would I give Jeremy more time practicing the point? Yes, what is the argument not to?

His court vision is good but not elite, a big portion of his offense is via cutting and also offensive outback, playing him as PG actually would reduce his effectiveness.

[CGD]

He's the best prospect in years (since Ja in '19, I have him before Haliburton, Cunningham, Giddey, Ivey) at our biggest position of need. No way we pass him for anyone other than Wemby.

This discussion makes me think the spurs should go harder for Kuminga at this deadline. If they get Scoot, spurs all the sudden have lots of interesting pieces, though, unfortunately it may mean keldon’s days are numbered.

[Mr. Body]

His court vision is good but not elite, a big portion of his offense is via cutting and also offensive outback, playing him as PG actually would reduce his effectiveness.

Sochan is too fast for most guys his position, too big for guards. I don't think he's a full time PG, but he's an instant match up problem for many teams.

[Dejounte]

Sochan is too fast for most guys his position, too big for guards. I don't think he's a full time PG, but he's an instant match up problem for many teams.

On the defensive side, I’m not even sure how metrics are accurately measuring how good (or bad) he’s doing on that side. He’s constantly switching, and probably the gap between him and the next player as far as switching frequency goes is wide. How do you even track that? I think it’s not tilting in his favor because of this reason.

[jjspur]

I would loooove to trade the second pick for a ransom if we don't get Vic. That would be awesome.

Based on how multiple draft picks have been flying around in the past year or so , some team might give away a small fortune for scoot. Not than I'm for that move but I could see it happening. Lots of possibilities in and around draft time.

[exstatic]

This discussion makes me think the spurs should go harder for Kuminga at this deadline. If they get Scoot, spurs all the sudden have lots of interesting pieces, though, unfortunately it may mean keldon’s days are numbered.

Spurs apparently want no part of him.

[John B]

Sochan is too fast for most guys his position, too big for guards. I don't think he's a full time PG, but he's an instant match up problem for many teams.

Sochan would be a Point-Forward playing beside Scoot, and PG if Spurs fortunately land Wemby. That would be a great problem, for sure Pop would not mind having.

[TD 21]

I’m trying to remember if I’ve ever seen you use the laughing emoji and agreed with you, (insert laughing emoji), but sure, having Jeremy as full-time point guard has challenges, but it’s called development, and besides, the whole team has questions for who can successfully play point. Jones is competent and minimizes mistakes but is not dynamic like Jeremy when he gets on a role. I don’t see what is so definitive about anything. Would I give Jeremy more time practicing the point? Yes, what is the argument not to?

:lmao At thinking that's a diss and the lack of basic reading comprehension.

[objective]

Most recent Sam Vecenie Game Theory podcast spends about 10 minutes on Sochan at the end, maybe starting around 80 minute mark or so

[The Truth #6]

:lmao At thinking that's a diss and the lack of basic reading comprehension.

No, just trying to have a conversation about Jeremy and his skills and his potential role on the team. You know, talk about basketball. I see you weren’t responding to me but I decided to respond to you.

Anyway…

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/spurs/status/1620230575750631424

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/BetMGM/status/1620233270599512065

[ace3g]

https://twitter.com/ClanTheSpursFan/status/1620240493933391872

https://twitter.com/BallySportsSA/status/1620231386975158272

[tonight...you]

Dude. This kid is going to be the FACE of the Spurs and there is no question unless Wemby gets drafted and even then...

He is trending to special.
Maybe Manu special.
I know! Too soon, but it's there.

[offset formation]

On the defensive side, I’m not even sure how metrics are accurately measuring how good (or bad) he’s doing on that side. He’s constantly switching, and probably the gap between him and the next player as far as switching frequency goes is wide. How do you even track that? I think it’s not tilting in his favor because of this reason.

Totally agree with this. Because of his switching, it's really hard to gauge him. It either means he needed to stay home on his man or that he needs better players around him. By and large his help defender would be Poeltl though who until this year was thought of as a defensive anchor for us. So perhaps it means Sochan should not be switching as often as he seems to do.

Quite frankly our defensive woes seem so deep and numerous this year especially that it's really hard to nail down where we suck. But suck we do. Historically unrivaled suckage.