2024 NBA Off-Season Thread (FA, Trades, Extensions, Rumors)

[Seventyniner]

From reliable Bucks' beat writer

https://x.com/GeryWoelfel/status/1809261013579051346

That Charlotte 2025 pick could possibly convey as a first. wink wink

[exstatic]

Since the Hawks now own LAL25, you could see a path toward something like:

Lakers: filler (because who cares? it's not going to happen), LAL29, LAL31, swap rights to LAL26, LAL28 and LAL30 for Young

Spurs give: ATL25, ATL 27 and let the swap rights for ATL26 extinguish for LAL 25, NOP27/MKE27 (worse), LAL 29 and LAL 31

Hawks Give: Young, LAL25 and NOP27/MKE27 (worse) for filler, ATL25, ATL27, swap rights to LAL26, LAL28 and LAL30

The Lakers get Young
The Spurs swap out the Hawks' near future for the Lakers' distant future
The Hawks get their future back and still net some value from the Lakers.

The Spurs doing this would depend on how much they value having extra picks in distant years. I'm not one of those people who believes the Hawks picks need to be kept at all costs, so getting four firsts in exchange for two firsts and a swap is enough to make me consider it. LAL's future isn't great, so having so many of their picks would be interesting. But the lack of control over LAL26-LAL28 or LAL30 is a bit of a wet blanket. The 2027 pick doesn't project to be great, but guaranteed firsts always have uses in mega trades.

Fuck no. The NBA is going to make SURE that if LeBron is in the league, he’s making the playoffs, even if he’s a first round out. That 25 pick will be about where it was last year, 17 or so.

[DPG21920]

That Charlotte 2025 pick could possibly convey as a first. wink wink

I know many here scoff at the pick and I understand it but this may very well be the type of deal where it’s valued as “first” so a team can say they met their asking price.

[slick'81]

I know many here scoff at the pick and I understand it but this may very well be the type of deal where it’s valued as “first” so a team can say they met their asking price.


doubt it but we can hope

[CGD]

From reliable Bucks' beat writer

https://x.com/GeryWoelfel/status/1809261013579051346

Ridiculous ask. Lopez is a salary dump at this point.

[AFBlue]

Get ready for the asswhip of having every free agent or trade block player linked to the Spurs.

[RC_Drunkford]

You can clearly get Lopez for 4-5 seconds or the CHA pick since nobody is offering a first. Spurs might get in on this, if they are making some bigger moves prior to that.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1809273081958908246

[ace3g]

https://x.com/esidery/status/1809295459900616846

[LeBowen]

I hope we can get Barnes if that three team deal happens, I'd give up a couple of seconds for him.
We'd still have room for Markkanen.

[spurraider21]

Utah has way more cap space available to them than we do. By renouncing Kira Lewis, THT, etc, they'll have like 30 mil in cap room.

Detroit north of 30 as well if they want

[Mr. Body]

Spurs can certainly absorb salary. Not sure what the Kings can offer up to make it worth while.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1809300933941002401

[spurraider21]

1809302096656941370

[Chinook]

Mighty lot for a guy they were hoping would be their third-best player this season

[LeBowen]

He can't even shoot!

Good player, but everyone gets a max these days.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I like Franz but these are the kind of deals that kill teams.

[Ice009]

Wow, this is crazy. Teams keep handing out these contracts. WTF. At this point, may as well let every team f themselves over. I haven't really watched him much, but from what I've read, he's good, but not sure if he's a max player potentially down the line?

[Ariel]

Couldn't they have waited to give him the max next year? what was the incentive for Orlando to rush it? Should have played the waiting game like Philly did with Maxey, if Franz doesn't want to sign a deal for less than the max, have him earn it first. Next year they could match offers anyway.

[Dverde]

11094139 (tel:11094139)[/URL]]https://x.com/esidery/status/1809295459900616846

Kevin Huerter anyone? This team does need shooting. Two years left on his deal
$16,830,357 then
$17,991,071.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Anytime you can lock up a 3 and D player who shot 28% from three (worse than Sochan btw) for a mere $45 million a year, you just have to do it.

[Leetonidas]

That Wagner deal makes Vassell look like a bargain by comparison. the 2nd apron was needed to save owners from themselves yet they keep handing out ridiculous undeserved contracts based purely on potential:lol

[RC_Drunkford]

https://x.com/esidery/status/1809295459900616846

here come the Spurs with the Devonte Graham contract.

Stupid deal by the Magic tbh. Wagner can't shoot and averages 19 PPG and somebody had the nerve to say Vassell is overpaid :lol Also looks like he has incentives for a combined 50 million in his contract.

[spurraider21]

here come the Spurs with the Devonte Graham contract.

Stupid deal by the Magic tbh. Wagner can't shoot and averages 19 PPG and somebody had the nerve to say Vassell is overpaid :lol Also looks like he has incentives for a combined 50 million in his contract.
the "incentive" is him making an all nba team this year.

a typical max rookie extension starts at what, 25% of the cap and then climbs from there... whereas if he cracks an all-nba team (or wins DPOY) prior to the extension kicking in, it jumps to becoming 30% of the cap

[Dverde]

That Wagner deal makes Vassell look like a bargain by comparison. the 2nd apron was needed to save owners from themselves yet they keep handing out ridiculous undeserved contracts based purely on potential:lol

That Sochan contract is right around the corner when the other NBA fanboys laugh at us.

[R. DeMurre]

Jesus, I like Franz Wagner but that is a lot of money for a well rounded glue guy.

And just when you think Sacramento might be turning things around, they make the most Kings-like move imaginable. A team that needs defense and shooting adds DeRozan... yikes.

[RC_Drunkford]

this whole DeRozan to Sacramento deal could get expanded into a Brook Lopez to the Spurs trade. Would work salary wise and the Bucks could add Huerter or Barnes, although they'd still need a back up center.

[AFBlue]

What's $50M as a % of projected cap in 2030? Genuinely curious how these deals will look in five years.

[LeBowen]

What's $50M as a % of projected cap in 2030? Genuinely curious how these deals will look in five years.

https://i.imgur.com/r5eXYlp.png

Those are the projections.

[TD 21]

Wagner has fast become one of the most overrated players in the league (like the Timberwolves, they primarily won on defense and depth) and the Magic have had an overrated off season, largely ignoring their shot creation/play making/shooting issues.


this whole DeRozan to Sacramento deal could get expanded into a Brook Lopez to the Spurs trade. Would work salary wise and the Bucks could add Huerter or Barnes, although they'd still need a back up center.

Backup? More like starter. Lopez is their only true C and no, Antetokounmpo can't credibly play it full time.

When Lopez missed most of '21-'22, their defense full off a cliff without him.

[Mr. Body]

https://i.imgur.com/r5eXYlp.png

Those are the projections.

The cap is going to triple in a bit over 10 years?

[LeBowen]

Wagner has fast become one of the most overrated players in the league (like the Timberwolves, they primarily won on defense and depth) and the Magic have had an overrated off season, largely ignoring their shot creation/play making/shooting issues.

I don't understand their KCP deal.
I watched the entire series against the Cavs and playmaking was their biggest issue.
No good ballhandlers or guards who can break down defenses.

Suggs is a great defender, but definitely not a point guard.
Where's KCP going to play?

Suggs-KCP-Banchero-Wagner-WCJ is just tragic offensively.

They also have Cole Anthony, Anthony Black and Gary Harris as defensive guards who can't shoot for shit.
Extending Harris and adding KCP is an interesting choice.

[LeBowen]

The cap is going to triple in a bit over 10 years?

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/salary_cap

It went up by 230% over the past decade.
It's projected to go up by 260% over the next decade.

New TV deal kicks in 25-26 and is massive.
We just have to look at contracts as cap percentages, not the ridiculous salary inflation.

[AFBlue]

Got it, so somewhere between 20-25% of the projected cap with the ability to go over for your own guys like they will with Banchero. Not sure any of their other players will be worth close to that in extension terms.

[Mr. Body]

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/salary_cap

It went up by 230% over the past decade.
It's projected to go up by 260% over the next decade.

New TV deal kicks in 25-26 and is massive.
We just have to look at contracts as cap percentages, not the ridiculous salary inflation.

We're going to see a lot of barely passable players get huge contracts who would have barely played twenty years ago.

[TD 21]

I don't understand their KCP deal.
I watched the entire series against the Cavs and playmaking was their biggest issue.
No good ballhandlers or guards who can break down defenses.

Suggs is a great defender, but definitely not a point guard.
Where's KCP going to play?

Suggs-KCP-Banchero-Wagner-WCJ is just tragic offensively.

They also have Cole Anthony, Anthony Black and Gary Harris as defensive guards who can't shoot for shit.
Extending Harris and adding KCP is an interesting choice.

They should have pursued Simons or at least Russell instead of Caldwell-Pope. Not only do they need their skillset offensively, but they have the defensive infrastructure to insulate them defensively.

Harris can shoot, but yeah he's superfluous with Caldwell-Pope.

I wonder if Carter Jr. gets traded (Pelicans?) because even in this environment, you don't pay a player (Bitadze) 3/$25M to be a fringe rotation player at best.

[RC_Drunkford]

Wagner has fast become one of the most overrated players in the league (like the Timberwolves, they primarily won on defense and depth) and the Magic have had an overrated off season, largely ignoring their shot creation/play making/shooting issues.



Backup? More like starter. Lopez is their only true C and no, Antetokounmpo can't credibly play it full time.

When Lopez missed most of '21-'22, their defense full off a cliff without him.

yeah my bad I meant starter, their back up C is Portis who's a PF

[scott]

Since the Hawks now own LAL25, you could see a path toward something like:

Lakers: filler (because who cares? it's not going to happen), LAL29, LAL31, swap rights to LAL26, LAL28 and LAL30 for Young

Spurs give: ATL25, ATL 27 and let the swap rights for ATL26 extinguish for LAL 25, NOP27/MKE27 (worse), LAL 29 and LAL 31

Hawks Give: Young, LAL25 and NOP27/MKE27 (worse) for filler, ATL25, ATL27, swap rights to LAL26, LAL28 and LAL30

The Lakers get Young
The Spurs swap out the Hawks' near future for the Lakers' distant future
The Hawks get their future back and still net some value from the Lakers.

The Spurs doing this would depend on how much they value having extra picks in distant years. I'm not one of those people who believes the Hawks picks need to be kept at all costs, so getting four firsts in exchange for two firsts and a swap is enough to make me consider it. LAL's future isn't great, so having so many of their picks would be interesting. But the lack of control over LAL26-LAL28 or LAL30 is a bit of a wet blanket. The 2027 pick doesn't project to be great, but guaranteed firsts always have uses in mega trades.

Fits well the Spurs perceived interest in punting picks and letting them compound. Imagine how many 2071 picks we'll eventually end up with!

[Fireball]

We're going to see a lot of barely passable players get huge contracts who would have barely played twenty years ago.

The average NBA player is much more skilled now than he was 20 years ago. So I do not get the last part of your argument. Yeah players now earn more than 20 years ago.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://i.imgur.com/r5eXYlp.png

Those are the projections.

this is actually great news tbh. Wemby's extension is due in 2027. With the cap rising his deal will look like a bargain down the line. Spurs should really frontload as much salary as possible for long term pieces.

[Mr. Body]

They should have pursued Simons or at least Russell instead of Caldwell-Pope. Not only do they need their skillset offensively, but they have the defensive infrastructure to insulate them defensively.

Harris can shoot, but yeah he's superfluous with Caldwell-Pope.

I wonder if Carter Jr. gets traded (Pelicans?) because even in this environment, you don't pay a player (Bitadze) 3/$25M to be a fringe rotation player at best.

Simons hasn't won a single game in his life and Russell kills teams as much as he doesn't - namely the one he's one. KCP is a known playoff performer.

[scott]

https://x.com/esidery/status/1809295459900616846

That's Brian Wright's music!!!!

More SRPs here we come!

[Mr. Body]

The average NBA player is much more skilled now than he was 20 years ago. So I do not get the last part of your argument. Yeah players now earn more than 20 years ago.

Absolutely not true, but you see this repeated by people all the time, hilariously enough.

Today's NBA only plays one kind of style and looks for only one type of player, who can shoot. Often times, a player doesn't even have to be able to dribble with both hands, or do anything other than spam their basic moves, which defensive rules allow them to get away with. A key example is Boston, where Brown and Tatum are incredibly reduced in what they can do, and when things go bad, they're helpless. Can barely use both hands with the ball.

This is where a guy like Derrick White helped so much, as he's a multi-talented utility guy, like the ones we used to see.

Most of the players in the NBA would be helpless in standard rule sets of the past. They wouldn't be able to run different styles of play whatsoever.

I mean, this is the key complaint about AAU basketball now, and a reason why there's so much worry -- American players nowadays are extremely poor basketball players, except for this one single style. And it doesn't take a lot to play that style, you just have to be superior at one or two skills and that's it. Most players of the past would destroy current players if there was a sane set of rules (no stepbacks/travels, defense is allowed, etc.).

[baseline bum]

The cap is going to triple in a bit over 10 years?

That's how 10% compounded raises work, it's not linear. 1.1^10 = 2.6 which is the difference in the 2034-35 cap vs the 2024-25 cap which is the last one before the TV deal goes into effect.

[Joseph Kony]

havent heard much about Caleb Martin. appears he is seeking a 15M per season contract. would anyone be opposed to signing him? he would be a solid vet and depth at F and could easily be flipped to a team at the deadline

[scott]

havent heard much about Caleb Martin. appears he is seeking a 15M per season contract. would anyone be opposed to signing him? he would be a solid vet and depth at F and could easily be flipped to a team at the deadline

Seems like Caleb Martin might be opposed, based on his past Instagrams about San Antonio :lol

[Mr. Body]

That's how 10% compounded raises work, it's not linear. 1.1^10 = 2.6 which is the difference in the 2034-35 cap vs the 2024-25 cap which is the last one before the TV deal goes into effect.

Guess so. Didn't realize how much it all was. No wonder all these good players of the past are pissed that the average dork in the league today is making such piles when they couldn't even play in yesteryear.

[Knoxxx]

https://www.bleachernation.com/bulls/2024/07/05/nba-notes-07-05-24/

Spurs looking into Brandon Ingram.

https://t.co/ont8mDNsoA

[Joseph Kony]

Seems like Caleb Martin might be opposed, based on his past Instagrams about San Antonio :lol
can't blame him tbh, but he'll go wherever the money is imo

[spurraider21]

i know some people here have oddly claimed that Stein has no credibility anymore but iirc he was first on Spurs-Paul stuff this offseason

[Mr. Body]

i know some people here have oddly claimed that Stein has no credibility anymore but iirc he was first on Spurs-Paul stuff this offseason

I mean I called Chris Paul to the Spurs weeks ago. It wasn't a head scratcher.

[Chinook]

i know some people here have oddly claimed that Stein has no credibility anymore but iirc he was first on Spurs-Paul stuff this offseason

And someone from the Bleacher Report broke the signing, I think.

[scott]

The Ingram speculation could be one of a few things:

1) Real interest by San Antonio
2) A way to regain some leverage in talks for other acquisitions (Lauri, for example). It's in the Spurs (and every other interested team, for that matter) to have other options. Ainge/Zanik feast on the desperation of counterparties.
3) Nothing more than pure speculation by putting obvious puzzle pieces together, because certainly the Spurs must do something, right? [Narrator: The Spurs were the only ones who knew, they were content doing nothing]

[spurraider21]

I mean I called Chris Paul to the Spurs weeks ago. It wasn't a head scratcher.
making a prediction of what is likely to happen vs reporting on what is actually happening are 2 different things

[Degoat]

Everything seems to have been put on hold, idk if it’s expected trades or teams afraid of the apron, but I think it’s wild that Tyus Jones, Malik Beasley, Gary Trent Jr, Issac Okoro, Miles Bridges, and Demar just to name a few have no contract yet.

[spurraider21]

ingram is interesting. he's a somewhat neutral defender who has length to be bothersome on that end if he applied himself.

offensively he was at his best imo when he just got to the pelicans and Lonzo/Jrue were setting him up with more C&S opportunities from 3. he's gotten way worse from 3 as he's become more of an on-ball player. might be a situation where he has to get into his midrange comfort zone when he's pulling up off the dribble. his volume from 3 has gone down as well

on the other hand, he's going into the last year of his deal and probably wants a massive contract as he will be 27 at the end of next season. if you plan to give him a huge 4-5 year deal, you'd better be damn sure he is part of your championship puzzle

[CGD]

Man, I’ve heard of the small market tax but Orlando must really be a shithole. I remember 20 years ago players supposedly vying to play there….

[LeBowen]

ingram is interesting. he's a somewhat neutral defender who has length to be bothersome on that end if he applied himself.

offensively he was at his best imo when he just got to the pelicans and Lonzo/Jrue were setting him up with more C&S opportunities from 3. he's gotten way worse from 3 as he's become more of an on-ball player. might be a situation where he has to get into his midrange comfort zone when he's pulling up off the dribble. his volume from 3 has gone down as well

The problem is that he's not worth it in his current state and is on an expiring deal.
He's supposed to be an all-star, but he's always either injured, or doesn't show enough effort or just dissapears like he did against OKC.

If we don't get anyone relevant, I'd give him a chance only if it was Collins, Graham and a handful of SRPs.
I'm not giving up even Keldon for him.

[scott]

The problem is that he's not worth it in his current state and is on an expiring deal.
He's supposed to be an all-star, but he's always either injured, or doesn't show enough effort or just dissapears like he did against OKC.

If we don't get anyone relevant, I'd give him a chance only if it was Collins, Graham and a handful of SRPs.
I'm not giving up even Keldon for him.

BI on a one year rental for that cost (which comes with the benefit of getting off a year of Collins) seems certainly worth it just from a 2025 cap perspective alone. I think adding BI makes us a play-in team, which I like better than being a 35-win team. Wemby, Devin and Castle need to play together in meaningful games.

[RC_Drunkford]

I assume Spurs are doing their due dilligence to see who would sign a frontloaded contract. Long term contracts with declining salaries are key to building a contender with the new cap rules.

[Chinook]

Do assuming Primo didn't do the whole flashing thing, what do folks think his extension would be this summer? I feel like $100M/4 would've been possible. He and Wemby would be the (co-equal) faces of the franchise, after all. You can't risk him going elsewhere and turning into a superstar

[scott]

Do assuming Primo didn't do the whole flashing thing, what do folks think his extension would be this summer? I feel like $100M/4 would've been possible. He and Wemby would be the (co-equal) faces of the franchise, after all. You can't risk him going elsewhere and turning into a superstar

Since we have no data to project Primo being an actual useful player, I think a more fun exercise is projecting what Sochan's extension will be next off-season.

Right now, I'd say that $60MM/4 sounds about right (and this bakes in some growth. I'm looking to Obi Toppin's deal as a guide, but Obi is currently a better all around player), but I'm curious what some of the folks who are high on him think.

[TD 21]

BI on a one year rental for that cost (which comes with the benefit of getting off a year of Collins) seems certainly worth it just from a 2025 cap perspective alone. I think adding BI makes us a play-in team, which I like better than being a 35-win team. Wemby, Devin and Castle need to play together in meaningful games.

It doesn't work like that. When it comes to superstars and stars, real and pseudo (like Ingram) ones alike, if you're trading for them and they're on an expiring contract or seeking to be extended/re-signed period, you're doing so with the knowledge of that, what it'll take financially and the likelihood of them doing so with you (he can't exactly afford to be choosy).

Otherwise, you'll get a disgruntled player and agent(s).

[exstatic]

I hope we can get Barnes if that three team deal happens, I'd give up a couple of seconds for him.
We'd still have room for Markkanen.

They need a 3d team to accept salary. You don’t pay them, they pay you.

[Chinook]

Since we have no data to project Primo being an actual useful player, I think a more fun exercise is projecting what Sochan's extension will be next off-season.

Right now, I'd say that $60MM/4 sounds about right (and this bakes in some growth. I'm looking to Obi Toppin's deal as a guide, but Obi is currently a better all around player), but I'm curious what some of the folks who are high on him think.

That's less than the MLE will be next year ($63.4M/4). He shouldn't sign that. If he finishes the year as a starter, he's getting $100M/5 would be the bare minimum I'd even look at $116M/5 as a pretty cheap deal. The last year of his deal will be about 10 percent of the cap -- and that's assuming he starts at $20 Million with max raises. Agents know the cap is exploding just like we do, and they aren't going to lock their clients into uber-cheap long term deals if they have any clout at all.

[exstatic]

He can't even shoot!

Good player, but everyone gets a max these days.

Franz absolutely is a great shooter, and always has been at every level. He just had an off year. Can happen to anyone.

[baseline bum]

https://www.bleachernation.com/bulls/2024/07/05/nba-notes-07-05-24/

Spurs looking into Brandon Ingram.

https://t.co/ont8mDNsoA

Now that's a genuine rental situation that I wouldn't want the Spurs to give up much for. Nice player but not the kind of guy you know absolutely you're going to want to throw a max deal at like you would Markannen so could very well lose him. Keldon and a couple of seconds is probably the max I'd pay for him and not even sure I'd offer that much.

[objective]

Ingram is even a worse idea than Markkannen

Give me a Lauri trade over an Ingram one any day

[RC_Drunkford]

That's less than the MLE will be next year ($63.4M/4). He shouldn't sign that. If he finishes the year as a starter, he's getting $100M/5 would be the bare minimum I'd even look at $116M/5 as a pretty cheap deal. The last year of his deal will be about 10 percent of the cap -- and that's assuming he starts at $20 Million with max raises. Agents know the cap is exploding just like we do, and they aren't going to lock their clients into uber-cheap long term deals if they have any clout at all.

Spurs should frontload that deal as well. 24, 22, 20, 18, 16 something like that. Would make him a bargain down the line.

[LeBowen]

Franz absolutely is a great shooter, and always has been at every level. He just had an off year. Can happen to anyone.

I wouldn't call 35% great, but he was solid enough.
Such massive drop this season is concerning, especially considering how off his shot looked in the playoffs.

[baseline bum]

That's less than the MLE will be next year ($63.4M/4). He shouldn't sign that. If he finishes the year as a starter, he's getting $100M/5 would be the bare minimum I'd even look at $116M/5 as a pretty cheap deal. The last year of his deal will be about 10 percent of the cap -- and that's assuming he starts at $20 Million with max raises. Agents know the cap is exploding just like we do, and they aren't going to lock their clients into uber-cheap long term deals if they have any clout at all.

Still think it's way too early to project the kind of money Sochan will command. His defensive potential is high enough that it wouldn't shock me if he worked his way up to getting max offers, but he is so inconsistent on both ends of the floor that I could see him being nothing more than a 7th or 8th man on a playoff roster too.

[spurraider21]

Franz absolutely is a great shooter, and always has been at every level. He just had an off year. Can happen to anyone.
in college he shot 31% and 34% from 3

in the pros he has shot 35%, 36%, and 28%

"great shooter" isnt how id describe any of that

[exstatic]

havent heard much about Caleb Martin. appears he is seeking a 15M per season contract. would anyone be opposed to signing him? he would be a solid vet and depth at F and could easily be flipped to a team at the deadline

He’s apparently down on the city. Posted an insta photo out his hotel window, and gave it a thumbs down.

[scott]

It doesn't work like that. When it comes to superstars and stars, real and pseudo (like Ingram) ones alike, if you're trading for them and they're on an expiring contract or seeking to be extended/re-signed period, you're doing so with the knowledge of that, what it'll take financially and the likelihood of them doing so with you (he can't exactly afford to be choosy).

Otherwise, you'll get a disgruntled player and agent(s).

Easy answer: then I'm not trading for him.

Just my opinion, but seems like BI needs this season to rehab his value going into FA. I don't think a lot of teams will line up to offer him the max as is.

[scott]

That's less than the MLE will be next year ($63.4M/4). He shouldn't sign that. If he finishes the year as a starter, he's getting $100M/5 would be the bare minimum I'd even look at $116M/5 as a pretty cheap deal. The last year of his deal will be about 10 percent of the cap -- and that's assuming he starts at $20 Million with max raises. Agents know the cap is exploding just like we do, and they aren't going to lock their clients into uber-cheap long term deals if they have any clout at all.

I don't get a vote, but I'm letting Sochan walk for that.

[poopbox]

I'd actually want Ingram over Lauir. I trust his numbers playing on a Pelicans team actually trying to win, over Lauri's somebody has to score on this bad team numbers in Utah, after he was a borderline bust playing in Chicago and Cleveland.

[Seventyniner]

What would Brandon Ingram give the Spurs that DeRozan wouldn't?

DeRozan would be much cheaper in terms of outgoing assets, and I'd assume he would be willing to take a tertiary/bench role.

[spurraider21]

What would Brandon Ingram give the Spurs that DeRozan wouldn't?

DeRozan would be much cheaper in terms of outgoing assets, and I'd assume he would be willing to take a tertiary/bench role.
Better shooter, less ball dominant, not as bad a defender

[spurraider21]

Noteworthy that the “third team” component is already lined up

1809395329944702977

[CGD]

Noteworthy that the “third team” component is already lined up

1809395329944702977

Kevin Huerter, you are a Spur!

[scott]

1809413949672288570

For those curious at what's still out there

[onechance87]

1809413949672288570

For those curious at what's still out there

guessing will bring mamu back for another 1 year deal.Market looking dried up,Nobody looking
to give long contracts at the moment.Same shit happning to barlow to.

[LeBowen]

I'd actually want Ingram over Lauir. I trust his numbers playing on a Pelicans team actually trying to win, over Lauri's somebody has to score on this bad team numbers in Utah, after he was a borderline bust playing in Chicago and Cleveland.

In his two years there, Utah is at .46 with Lauri and .32 without him.
He impacts winning more than Markkanen ever will.

[Ariel]

That's less than the MLE will be next year ($63.4M/4). He shouldn't sign that. If he finishes the year as a starter, he's getting $100M/5 would be the bare minimum I'd even look at $116M/5 as a pretty cheap deal. The last year of his deal will be about 10 percent of the cap -- and that's assuming he starts at $20 Million with max raises. Agents know the cap is exploding just like we do, and they aren't going to lock their clients into uber-cheap long term deals if they have any clout at all.
A non shooting Sochan isn't a legit starter on a good team, and Spurs shouldn't rush to pay him as such. Right now I'd say he's worth an Obi Toppin type deal, at around 4 years 60 million (adjust some for cap inflation), if he wanted more than that Spurs might be better off by just not extending him and either having another year of evidence before re-signing him or simply letting him find his market value in restricted free agency.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1809579220378481044

[ace3g]

https://x.com/esidery/status/1809545374928904534

https://x.com/MikeAScotto/status/1809422963281736105

[SpursFan86]

Not trying to melt down over Malik Beasley of all people, but come on PATFO. Can we just add one great shooter this offseason? Watch us end up using cap space to get a bunch of SRPs and go into next season as one of the worst shooting teams in the league yet again :lol

[Dejounte]

Is anything happening today

[ace3g]

Is anything happening today

https://x.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1809407463801634902

[DPG21920]

Fontecchio Please.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1809591163017367976

[Degoat]

Probably wishful thinking but I’m guessing the spurs are big game hunting and if nothing materializes there they’ll just bring back Mamu and Cedi Osman

[ace3g]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1809593136252928192

[Spurs Homer]

worthless incompetent garbage front office

give away #8 draft pick (to a conference RIVAL!!!) for nothing

[r0drig0lac]

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1809600190807933262

[Mr. Body]

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1809600190807933262

Our star is so good we're trying to get rid of him. Any takers?

[R. DeMurre]

In his two years there, Utah is at .46 with Lauri and .32 without him.
He impacts winning more than Markkanen ever will.


I assume you meant to say more impactful than Ingram...

It is interesting how people can look at Markkanen leading a team in full tank mode to 37 wins and say he has no impact whatsoever on winning, right after watching Wemby post an historic rookie season where his tanking team won 22 games.

[LeBowen]

I assume you meant to say more impactful than Ingram...

It is interesting how people can look at Markkanen leading a team in full tank mode to 37 wins and say he has no impact whatsoever on winning, right after watching Wemby post an historic rookie season where his tanking team won 22 games.

Yeah, typo, my bad.

Jazz were at .500 before they shut him down in 22-23 season.

I guess we all have favorites and are subjective when it comes to evaluate players, but I don't see a single actual basketball downside for Markkanen as a second option.
If he goes anywhere else for a reasonable price, I'm going to be shitting on PATFO all season long. :lmao

[Dverde]

After seeing all these reasonable contracts go to other teams. I’m sold we are getting Red Mamba v2 Huerter for 17M, 18M remaining on his deal. Re-sign Cedi and Barlow. Feels like a typical Spursian offseason.

[R. DeMurre]

The 76ers and the Nuggets have had such opposite off seasons, with Philly adding Paul George and Caleb Martin, and Denver losing KCP and Reggie Jackson. Jokic can't be happy seeing Brown and Caldwell-Pope leave in consecutive years without any other replacements or upgrades.

[Pauleta14]

worthless incompetent garbage front office

give away #8 draft pick (to a conference RIVAL!!!) for nothing

They deserve the benefit of the doubt for a few more weeks tbh. What if they they do Lauri thanks to it...

But if they come up with nothing I'm targetting the local medias even more than PATFO

[barakz21]

Stupid question, and I ask only because I haven’t seen it happen (and if it had, I probably missed it). Is there any chance that a FA agreed to sign with a team during legal tampering period, signs with that team, BUT the signing wasn’t announced during the tampering period? Or rather, is that possible for a signing to be kept under wraps only to be announced once they actually sign?

I’m probably just in denial and holding out hope they had FAs signed but not announced besides CP0.

[Spurs Homer]

They deserve the benefit of the doubt for a few more weeks tbh. What if they they do Lauri thanks to it...

But if they come up with nothing I'm targetting the local medias even more than PATFO

i would love to be wrong - but this has been years now -

stockpile and stockpile and trade away assets and next draft and tank again and tank once more -

this year you get TWO TOP TEN PICKS! - (im not buying the garbage that this was a weak draft)

and what did they do?
Fulfill the fantasies of a team who had no business even being near the top ten -and a RIVAL -

fuck these clowns

when buzelis and dilly and even knecht go on to have nice rookie seasons - these clowns will be nursing chris pauls hammies

[Obstructed_View]

Stupid question, and I ask only because I haven’t seen it happen (and if it had, I probably missed it). Is there any chance that a FA agreed to sign with a team during legal tampering period, signs with that team, BUT the signing wasn’t announced during the tampering period? Or rather, is that possible for a signing to be kept under wraps only to be announced once they actually sign?

I’m probably just in denial and holding out hope they had FAs signed but not announced besides CP0.
I think it's happened, and we would have missed it if it did because nobody leaked it.

[Dejounte]

12 minutes in and nothing has happened

[Seventyniner]

Yeah, typo, my bad.

Jazz were at .500 before they shut him down in 22-23 season.

I guess we all have favorites and are subjective when it comes to evaluate players, but I don't see a single actual basketball downside for Markkanen as a second option.
If he goes anywhere else for a reasonable price, I'm going to be shitting on PATFO all season long. :lmao

Since the Jazz were so much better with Markkanen than without, imo this makes it less likely the Jazz will trade him to GS. The Warriors' 2025-2028 picks won't be all that valuable with Curry still on the team (albeit at the end of his career) and Markkanen making them better. The Warriors will have every reason to stay competitive if they don't control their own drafts, and their owner doesn't seem like the kind to ever embrace a true tank job.

On the other hand, the Spurs can offer the Jazz picks and swaps from third-party teams, like the Hawks picks and swaps with ATL/BOS/DAL/MIN down the road. Those picks/swaps can end up being great even if the Spurs are a good team themselves.

Markkanen being that good should mean that the Jazz wouldn't want to trade him for the receiving team's own picks if possible. That takes just about everyone out of the running other than the Spurs. Stockpiling picks from multiple other teams for just such an occasion is an interesting strategy, if the Spurs get Markkanen it could be a case of preparation meeting opportunity.

[ginobilized]

12 minutes in and nothing has happened

30 mins in and now I'M pissed off

[Obstructed_View]

Since the Jazz were so much better with Markkanen than without, imo this makes it less likely the Jazz will trade him to GS. The Warriors' 2025-2028 picks won't be all that valuable with Curry still on the team (albeit at the end of his career) and Markkanen making them better. The Warriors will have every reason to stay competitive if they don't control their own drafts, and their owner doesn't seem like the kind to ever embrace a true tank job.

On the other hand, the Spurs can offer the Jazz picks and swaps from third-party teams, like the Hawks picks and swaps with ATL/BOS/DAL/MIN down the road. Those picks/swaps can end up being great even if the Spurs are a good team themselves.

Markkanen being that good should mean that the Jazz wouldn't want to trade him for the receiving team's own picks if possible. That takes just about everyone out of the running other than the Spurs. Stockpiling picks from multiple other teams for just such an occasion is an interesting strategy, if the Spurs get Markkanen it could be a case of preparation meeting opportunity.
If there is any chance for the Spurs to have some benefit of the doubt on the value of their first rounders, it's now. An extra pick or two looks gaudy and has less value.

[RC_Drunkford]

Reports said a few days ago that deals are being worked out and tied together into multi-team trades. That's why it takes so long. So I assume we'll see 2-3 mega trades with 4 or more teams involved in it.

[Pauleta14]

Caleb Martin is an idiot... :lol

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1809603977069113395

[Pauleta14]

i would love to be wrong - but this has been years now -

stockpile and stockpile and trade away assets and next draft and tank again and tank once more -

this year you get TWO TOP TEN PICKS! - (im not buying the garbage that this was a weak draft)

and what did they do?
Fulfill the fantasies of a team who had no business even being near the top ten -and a RIVAL -

fuck these clowns

when buzelis and dilly and even knecht go on to have nice rookie seasons - these clowns will be nursing chris pauls hammies

I agree on the pessimism but let's wait a few weeks

[spurraider21]

Reports said a few days ago that deals are being worked out and tied together into multi-team trades. That's why it takes so long. So I assume we'll see 2-3 mega trades with 4 or more teams involved in it.
Sure but the outright FA signings shouldn’t have complications

[Obstructed_View]

Caleb Martin is an idiot... :lol

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1809603977069113395
Whoever advised him to turn that down should be fired. Out of a canon. Into the sun.

[Pauleta14]

Whoever advised him to turn that down should be fired. Out of a canon. Into the sun.

Karma for publicly shitting on the beautiful city of San Antonio

[r0drig0lac]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1809639146069143903WOJ BOMB

[jeebus]

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1809639146069143903

[LeBowen]

WHAT NOW!?!?

OUR PLANS HAVE BEEN THWARTED.

[Pauleta14]

Someone explain pls

In exchange of what??

[Spurs Brazil]

PaulGarcia
Getting to $28.9 mil would allow SA to absorb one of Harrison Barnes or Kevin Huerter into cap space, then have enough to sign Chris Paul.

[Robz4000]

Harrison Barnes it is

[LeBowen]

PaulGarcia
Getting to $28.9 mil would allow SA to absorb one of Harrison Barnes or Kevin Huerter into cap space, then have enough to sign Chris Paul.

Yeah, as I wrote earlier Markkanen isn't off the table with salary match trade.

I just didn't think Bulls wouldn't accept Graham's $2M cap hit after waivers.
SRP wasted!

[Pauleta14]

PaulGarcia
Getting to $28.9 mil would allow SA to absorb one of Harrison Barnes or Kevin Huerter into cap space, then have enough to sign Chris Paul.

makes sense

[Mr. Body]

PaulGarcia
Getting to $28.9 mil would allow SA to absorb one of Harrison Barnes or Kevin Huerter into cap space, then have enough to sign Chris Paul.

Things are moving. I would guess the SAC-CHI trade is all but done at this point, although it sounds like Demar is going to Sacramento to talk first?

Question:

Who's the preference, if there's a choice? Huerter or Barnes? Both have strengths.

[jeebus]

Someone explain pls

In exchange of what??

Picks hopefully

[Leetonidas]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1809639146069143903WOJ BOMB

Godspeed DG. Didn't play much but I was a fan

[LeBowen]

Things are moving. I would guess the SAC-CHI trade is all but done at this point, although it sounds like Demar is going to Sacramento to talk first?

Question:

Who's the preference, if there's a choice? Huerter or Barnes? Both have strengths.

I want Barnes because we need a floor spacer at PF if Castle is to start together with CP3 and Devin.

Huerter can't play PF.

[WaywardTexan]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1809639146069143903WOJ BOMB

5D chess by the front office. Farewell Nugget Killer.

[sfernald]

So in theory if we get Barnes, what do you guys thinks? He starts right?

CP3/Vessel/Barnes/Sochan/Wemby

with Keldon/Castle/Tre/Champ/Collins off the bench?

[Obstructed_View]

Picks hopefully
Yeah, God forbid the Spurs get anything that helps the team.

[LeBowen]

So in theory if we get Barnes, what do you guys thinks? He starts right?

CP3/Vessel/Barnes/Sochan/Wemby

with Keldon/Castle/Tre/Champ/Collins off the bench?

Jeremy has to be benched until he becomes a positive on offense.

CP3/Vessel/Castle/Barnes/Wemby

[sfernald]

Jeremy has to be benched until he becomes a positive on offense.

CP3/Vessel/Castle/Barnes/Wemby

Wow, assuming Castle is plus offensively over Jeremy seems like a HUGE assumption!

[Mugen]

Either Barnes or Huerter fits nicely into the starting 3 spot for the upcoming season tbh.

[AFBlue]

Will be interesting to see what they do with the available cap space. Graham was not going to see the floor with Paul, Jones and Castle on the squad, but he was a decent floor spacer.

[Bruno]

It's a quite standard salary dump trade.

Now, the big question is what Spurs will do with that extra cap space? Taking one of Barnes/Huerter or something else?

Another question is how good is the second round pick Spurs traded away.

[Chinook]

A non shooting Sochan isn't a legit starter on a good team, and Spurs shouldn't rush to pay him as such. Right now I'd say he's worth an Obi Toppin type deal, at around 4 years 60 million (adjust some for cap inflation), if he wanted more than that Spurs might be better off by just not extending him and either having another year of evidence before re-signing him or simply letting him find his market value in restricted free agency.

A starter on a good team would make way more than that. The MLE in five years will be around $86M/4. And equivalent deal to Toppin's in two years would be $72M/4 or $94M/5. It's going to be a hard sell for the Spurs to start Sochan for three or four years straight and then try to tell him they don't see him as a starter. Like if it were so easy to replace him, why didn't they replace him in two or three years of Victor's career? Were they trying to tank?

But let's keep things straight: The starter condition is baked into the scenario you're responding to, as is the idea of Sochan signing an extension rather than going to market. Both of those factors favor Jeremy's reps in negotiations and may not end up being the reality. The Spurs might have cause to bench Sochan this year (if not trade him), and I don't think they'd be out of bounds to want to wait on him before offering a contract. That's both because of his performance and because the Spurs may well have a cap window that summer. However, if the Spurs are coming to Sochan with an extension offer after starting him this year, I don't think the more pessimistic estimates given here make sense.

[LeBowen]

Wow, assuming Castle is plus offensively over Jeremy seems like a HUGE assumption!

He's definitely a better playmaker and his shoot looks like an NBA player's shot.
Since Jeremy is also a poor finisher at the rim, I don't think Castle can be worse.

[Obstructed_View]

Jeremy has to be benched until he becomes a positive on offense.

CP3/Vessel/Castle/Barnes/Wemby

Yes, because opposing teams will be happy to bench their best player until Jeremy checks in.

[John B]

So in theory if we get Barnes, what do you guys thinks? He starts right?

CP3/Vessel/Barnes/Sochan/Wemby

with Keldon/Castle/Tre/Champ/Collins off the bench?

The 4th overall starts from day 1. The very least he guards the POA. Barnes is a good vet presence in the 2nd squad, along with Keldon, Tre and Osman.

[AFBlue]

Is the Barnes/Huerter thing assuming we're the third team in the DeRozan Sacto deal? Are there other players that fit the "absorb into space" profile for team navigating the aprons?

[LeBowen]

Yes, because opposing teams will be happy to bench their best player until Jeremy checks in.

His defense is also overrated.
He can guard wings with similar size, but he can't guard star playmakers or bigger players.

[objective]

PaulGarcia
Getting to $28.9 mil would allow SA to absorb one of Harrison Barnes or Kevin Huerter into cap space, then have enough to sign Chris Paul.

Barnes has a 10% trade kicker that should take his number to 19.8 this year, probably not enough room then for Paul unless they do something else

[r0drig0lac]

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1809646082801959150

[slick'81]

Good iob sa! Bring in some vets,keep your assets and lets see how the season goes

[scott]

In his two years there, Utah is at .46 with Lauri and .32 without him.
He impacts winning more than Markkanen ever will.

I assume you mean Ingram in that second line?

"Lauri has never made a team better" is a lazy line, not based in any kind of reality. Those who use it are (mostly) being purposely obtuse.

[Cardinal]

I don't think Barnes can reliably play the 3 anymore

[Mr. Body]

I lean Huerter rather than Barnes, despite not being a starting fit. Huerter is still only 25 while Barnes seems to be starting a decline. Barnes fills a starting role, however.

[slick'81]

Whoever shoots better is who i want

[Obstructed_View]

His defense is also overrated.
He can guard wings with similar size, but he can't guard star playmakers or bigger players.

Except that's all he has done in the league.

[Mugen]

Biggest W of this upcoming trade is making sure Derozan doesn't come back to SA tbh

[scott]

What did we get back from CHA? A fake second?

Certainly the Spurs have some kind of plans, otherwise it doesn't make sense to give up an SRP just to save $2.8MM by dumping Graham. The only explanation would be that we are cheap asses... oh wait, I figured it out.

[John B]

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1809646082801959150

I want the Latvian laser back!

[DPG21920]

It's a quite standard salary dump trade.

Now, the big question is what Spurs will do with that extra cap space? Taking one of Barnes/Huerter or something else?

Another question is how good is the second round pick Spurs traded away.

My guess is Spurs not only get Barnes or Huerter, but that they recoup the 2nd they sent out + another for facilitation of the deal.

[Mr. Body]

My guess is Spurs not only get Barnes or Huerter, but that they recoup the 2nd they sent out + another for facilitation of the deal.

Huerter or Barnes is probably the reward for facilitating. They're both legitimately good players, not throw-ins. In fact, I think the Spurs throw a second or two in.

[Chinook]

Functionally speaking, the Spurs have $16,623,950 in cap space. That assumes the team would renounce Mamu and Duke (whom they could re-sign on the free-agent market anyway) but not waive Champ or Bassey or waive/trade anyone else. It includes Paul and Castle as well.

One can't underrate the idea that the Spurs could just use that salary to sign a guy. If they're actually in on DeRozan, that's likely the best offer he'd get. It's not quite enough to take Huerter, and unless Paul would take a slight hair-cut to make it work, the Spurs would have to waive a player or include one in the trade which would allow the team to also bring in Barnes.

[DPG21920]

What did we get back from CHA? A fake second?

Certainly the Spurs have some kind of plans, otherwise it doesn't make sense to give up an SRP just to save $2.8MM by dumping Graham. The only explanation would be that we are cheap asses... oh wait, I figured it out.

Nah - SA will definitely be getting someone via trade or just a FA using cap space. My guess is it’s SAC/CHI deal and Spurs will recoup their 2nd + land Barnes or Huerter which is fantastic

[DPG21920]

Huerter or Barnes is probably the reward for facilitating. They're both legitimately good players, not throw-ins. In fact, I think the Spurs throw a second or two in.

I disagree. They are both on 2 year deals, SAC has to move one of them to get DeRozan. Maybe they dont have to send out a 2nd, but no way IMO does SA send out another pick Im guessing (I dont care if they do though, wouldn’t bother me)

[scott]

Nah - SA will definitely be getting someone via trade or just a FA using cap space. My guess is it’s SAC/CHI deal and Spurs will recoup their 2nd + land Barnes or Huerter which is fantastic

The Graham deal on it's own is the same as selling SRPs. They gave an SRP to save $2.8MM (which is actually a good deal, compared to what they usually get for selling SRPs IIRC). Now, I agree with you that they likely make some other move... but those are kind of independent to this.

[DPG21920]

Functionally speaking, the Spurs have $16,623,950 in cap space. That assumes the team would renounce Mamu and Duke (whom they could re-sign on the free-agent market anyway) but not waive Champ or Bassey or waive/trade anyone else. It includes Paul and Castle as well.

One can't underrate the idea that the Spurs could just use that salary to sign a guy. If they're actually in on DeRozan, that's likely the best offer he'd get. It's not quite enough to take Huerter, and unless Paul would take a slight hair-cut to make it work, the Spurs would have to waive a player or include one in the trade which would allow the team to also bring in Barnes.

Yup. Waive Bassey or my preference? Include Branham or Blake to CHI

[Obstructed_View]

I want the Latvian laser back!

:vomit:

[DPG21920]

The Graham deal on it's own is the same as selling SRPs. They gave an SRP to save $2.8MM (which is actually a good deal, compared to what they usually get for selling SRPs IIRC). Now, I agree with you that they likely make some other move... but those are kind of independent to this.

Sure but I dont see how they are independent? Why would spurs need to sell a SRP? They only do this if they have a need with cap space IMO so I think it’s directly related and not just a money saving move. If they do nothing with that extra space then I definitely agree it’s a money thing.

[Mr. Body]

I disagree. They are both on 2 year deals, SAC has to move one of them to get DeRozan. Maybe they dont have to send out a 2nd, but no way IMO does SA send out another pick Im guessing (I dont care if they do though, wouldn’t bother me)

That's from a fan's perspective. There always seems to be an underlying gentleman's agreement sort of system for exchanging assets in the NBA. Sure, there are dumb GMs and aggressive GMs, but overall there's a sense of value that seems to underpin movements. A player like Barnes or Huerter is not a player a team simply gets for free. Junk contracts would come for free.

I'm not advocating giving up anything further, just a suspicion of how the league works.

[Mr. Body]

The Graham deal on it's own is the same as selling SRPs. They gave an SRP to save $2.8MM (which is actually a good deal, compared to what they usually get for selling SRPs IIRC). Now, I agree with you that they likely make some other move... but those are kind of independent to this.

It's 100% related to some other deal. It's completely dependent on something else that's coming.

[vy65]

Harrison Barnes has negative O/DBPM and a VORP of .1. He's 32 years old and has been steadily declining. No thank you.

[Obstructed_View]

Sure but I dont see how they are independent? Why would spurs need to sell a SRP? They only do this if they have a need with cap space IMO so I think it’s directly related and not just a money saving move. If they do nothing with that extra space then I definitely agree it’s a money thing.

The way I understand it, buying the cap space allows them to absorb salary in a trade. Since they got value for the pick, and may get another pick for use of their cap space they come out ahead.

[Obstructed_View]

Harrison Barnes has negative O/DBPM and a VORP of .1. He's 32 years old and has been steadily declining. No thank you.

I hope it's a different Barnes.

[ace3g]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GR0n4bRWsAAmAUS?format=jpg&name=smallhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/GR0p_lJacAMems_?format=jpg&name=small

[scott]

If we trade for Harrison Barnes and Brandon Ingram we could have:

Harrison Barnes
Harrison Ingram
Brandon Ingram

[scott]

Sure but I dont see how they are independent? Why would spurs need to sell a SRP? They only do this if they have a need with cap space IMO so I think it’s directly related and not just a money saving move. If they do nothing with that extra space then I definitely agree it’s a money thing.

Needing cap space isn't the only reason they have for selling an SRP. The other reason is that they like money.

[Chinook]

Yup. Waive Bassey or my preference? Include Branham or Blake to CHI

If they do that, they need to be getting real value back, and I don't know that either SAC or CHI would be willing to do that. On two-year deals, it's a hard enough sell to say both Huerter and Barnes are buoyant salaries. Including a prospect the Spurs like as part of SAC's compensation on top of that should warrant a real asset going the Spurs' way.

[Truckules]

Huerter is a perfect fit, and I don't really see what Barnes adds so I'm hoping for Huerter but expecting Barnes. Hopefully, the front office is actually making a good move and not just helping Demar get to Sacramento.

[Obstructed_View]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GR0n4bRWsAAmAUS?format=jpg&name=smallhttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/GR0p_lJacAMems_?format=jpg&name=small
I'M LATMAN!

[DPG21920]

That's from a fan's perspective. There always seems to be an underlying gentleman's agreement sort of system for exchanging assets in the NBA. Sure, there are dumb GMs and aggressive GMs, but overall there's a sense of value that seems to underpin movements. A player like Barnes or Huerter is not a player a team simply gets for free. Junk contracts would come for free.

I'm not advocating giving up anything further, just a suspicion of how the league works.

Sure I get what you are saying and I wouldn’t care if SA gave up a 2nd to get one of them. I just really doubt it given the context and circumstances

[DPG21920]

The way I understand it, buying the cap space allows them to absorb salary in a trade. Since they got value for the pick, and may get another pick for use of their cap space they come out ahead.

Exactly - so its directly related and not independent (unless Spurs end up not using that space or needing it - then we can say SA was just selling a pick for cash)

[R. DeMurre]

Sacramento just seems to want to go against every convention in modern basketball, opting for undersized back court combos, a non defending center, and now a no 3 no D option in DeRozan. it seemed for a while like they'd turned a corner, but the tradition continues.

[DPG21920]

Needing cap space isn't the only reason they have for selling an SRP. The other reason is that they like money.

Agreed. Im just saying I wont buy that’s the case unless they end up not using the space and just ended up selling their pick for 2.8M that they didnt need

[LeBowen]

Sacramento just seems to want to go against every convention in modern basketball, opting for undersized back court combos, a non defending center, and now a no 3 no D option in DeRozan. it seemed for a while like they'd turned a corner, but the tradition continues.

They accepted they'll never be able to actually contend, so they at least want to be a solid regular season team and maybe make it to the second round once in a while.
As long as the arena is full, I guess.

[slick'81]

Ahh davis betans:lmao

[DPG21920]

If they do that, they need to be getting real value back, and I don't know that either SAC or CHI would be willing to do that. On two-year deals, it's a hard enough sell to say both Huerter and Barnes are buoyant salaries. Including a prospect the Spurs like as part of SAC's compensation on top of that should warrant a real asset going the Spurs' way.

I dont think spurs like all of those guys all that much and the one they dont like much goes which allows you not to waive or trade the other ones. I can see something like:

CHI Gets: Branham + 2nd from SAC

SAC Gets: DeRozan

SA Gets: Barnes or Huerter + 2 2nds

[scott]

Agreed. Im just saying I wont buy that’s the case unless they end up not using the space and just ended up selling their pick for 2.8M that they didnt need

I get what you're saying - we're in agreement. I'm predicting we don't do something that requires that space... because that's what we always do :lol

I hope you are correct. I wouldn't mind Huerter or Barnes. Neither fit the "don't want 2025-26 contracts" thing we heard, but I don't care about that, personally.

[scott]

I dont think spurs like all of those guys all that much and the one they dont like much goes which allows you not to waive or trade the other ones. I can see something like:

CHI Gets: Branham + 2nd from SAC

SAC Gets: DeRozan

SA Gets: Barnes or Huerter + 2 2nds

Would be sweet to get rid of Branham like that. The 2nds would all have to come from SAC (I see no reason CHI should give up anything here, but maybe they'd give up 1 for Bran). Barnes or Huerter + 3 SRP seems like a fair price for SAC to pay for Demar (sure beats the FRP CHI gave up for him).

[Mr. Body]

Sacramento just seems to want to go against every convention in modern basketball, opting for undersized back court combos, a non defending center, and now a no 3 no D option in DeRozan. it seemed for a while like they'd turned a corner, but the tradition continues.

One of their big problems was finding buckets when no one was hitting outside and DDR is that guy. He's one of the more clutch guys in the league.

They are in a tough spot in that they aren't the top contenders, but the top of the league is so slippery right now, a move like this isn't terrible. Forgetting the EC, none of OKC, Dallas, or Minnesota are incredible or unbeatable.

[Bruno]

Functionally speaking, the Spurs have $16,623,950 in cap space. That assumes the team would renounce Mamu and Duke (whom they could re-sign on the free-agent market anyway) but not waive Champ or Bassey or waive/trade anyone else. It includes Paul and Castle as well.


I don't have this number:
Vassell: $29.35M
Johnson: $19M
Collins: $16.74M
Wembanyama: $12.77M
Paul: $11M
Castle: $9.1M
Jones: $9.1M
Sochan: $5.57M
Branham: $3.22M
Champagnie $3M
Wesley: $2.62M
Bassey: $2.5M
Cissoko: $1.89M

=> $125.86M for 13 players.

$14.73M in cap space. If Spurs waive Bassey, it's $17.23M.

[Dejounte]

https://x.com/carmichaeldave/status/1809637294992953569?s=46

[baseline bum]

Someone explain pls

In exchange of what??

Probably a top 59 protected second as a salary dump. Welp so much for sending him to Utah.

[kobyz]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1809593136252928192
One to look up to

[baseline bum]

His defense is also overrated.
He can guard wings with similar size, but he can't guard star playmakers or bigger players.

The OKC game where Wemby sonned Chet I thought Sochan did an amazing job on SGA, who really only went off on Champagnie when Sochan was on the bench. But Jeremy is so inconsistent. You see him looking All NBA defense one night, then he's just getting torched at the three point line and the rim the next.

[DPG21920]

I get what you're saying - we're in agreement. I'm predicting we don't do something that requires that space... because that's what we always do :lol

I hope you are correct. I wouldn't mind Huerter or Barnes. Neither fit the "don't want 2025-26 contracts" thing we heard, but I don't care about that, personally.

Ya it doesnt fit that but it does help the team and fill an obvious hole. Plus, I think as expiring next season I think they are + value guys still and Im expecting SA is getting a pick for facilitating the deal (which is smart because you rent space and actually get a useful player like Cedi last year etc)

[Chinook]

I dont think spurs like all of those guys all that much and the one they dont like much goes which allows you not to waive or trade the other ones. I can see something like:

CHI Gets: Branham + 2nd from SAC

SAC Gets: DeRozan

SA Gets: Barnes or Huerter + 2 2nds


Would be sweet to get rid of Branham like that. The 2nds would all have to come from SAC (I see no reason CHI should give up anything here, but maybe they'd give up 1 for Bran). Barnes or Huerter + 3 SRP seems like a fair price for SAC to pay for Demar (sure beats the FRP CHI gave up for him).

The Spurs have CHI25:2 (Chicago's natural second-rounder for this upcoming draft), and I would imagine that would hold decent value for a rebuilding Bulls. The Kings have four seconds they can move (or least did after the draft):

One of SAC25:2 or POR25:2, SAC28:2, SAC29:2 and SAC31:2

I don't know that they can afford to trade a whole bunch of them. But do you know what they can afford to trade? And unprotected 2029 swap. I think there's a good chance we see something like the Bullock trade happen again where the Spurs take salary and give up some seconds in exchange for a distant swap.

[scott]

The Spurs have CHI25:2 (Chicago's natural second-rounder for this upcoming draft), and I would imagine that would hold decent value for a rebuilding Bulls. The Kings have four seconds they can move (or least did after the draft):

One of SAC25:2 or POR25:2, SAC28:2, SAC29:2 and SAC31:2

I don't know that they can afford to trade a whole bunch of them. But do you know what they can afford to trade? And unprotected 2029 swap. I think there's a good chance we see something like the Bullock trade happen again where the Spurs take salary and give up some seconds in exchange for a distant swap.

Brian Wright's ears burning hot while you type out "S-W-A-P"

[kobyz]

My guess is Spurs not only get Barnes or Huerter, but that they recoup the 2nd they sent out + another for facilitation of the deal.

Barnes could land you some first round pick from a contender at the deadline

[scott]

Definitely prefer Jr. Red Rocket Huerter to Barnes as a player, but maybe Barnes fits the vet leader role a little better

[Chinook]

I don't have this number:
Vassell: $29.35M
Johnson: $19M
Collins: $16.74M
Wembanyama: $12.77M
Paul: $11M
Castle: $9.1M
Jones: $9.1M
Sochan: $5.57M
Branham: $3.22M
Champagnie $3M
Wesley: $2.62M
Bassey: $2.5M
Cissoko: $1.89M

=> $125.86M for 13 players.

$14.73M in cap space. If Spurs waive Bassey, it's $17.23M.

Ah, so Castle signed for 120 percent of his salary slot. That and the fact that I hadn't updated the cap to reflect the slightly lower actual number explains the roughly $1.5-Million difference.

[Chinook]

Brian Wright's ears burning hot while you type out "S-W-A-P"

D-I-S-T-A-N-T S-W-A-P*

tbh..

[Ignazzz]

Maybe not.

[scott]

This is good for our remote chances at that CHA pick.

1809662134843846938

Clippers miss out on their chance at scoring the woman abuser trifecta.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1809662572922278098

[timvp]

To add to the math, Barnes has a 10% trade kicker.

Huerter would be interesting. There's some risk with that shoulder injury. Patty Mills shot poorly his first year after his torn labrum.

Huerter is better in a vacuum but Barnes would be such a Spursian move it's tough to believe otherwise. Elite locker room guy who adds needed versatility at the forward spots.

[timvp]

Ah, so Castle signed for 120 percent of his salary slot. That explains the roughly $1.5-Million difference.

First round picks automatically count for 120 percent these days, right? Last I looked, last rookie to take less than 120% was George Hill -- and that was after the Spurs threatened to not sign him at all after his poor summer league showing :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

I'd rather have Huerter cause he's younger, although we'd have a logjam at SG then and really need another PF.

[offset formation]

Spursian type player Landry Shamet just became a UFA as Washington didn't offer. Career 38% 3pt shooter. What say you Spur fan?

[Chinook]

First round picks automatically count for 120 percent these days, right? Last I looked, last rookie to take less than 120% was George Hill -- and that was after the Spurs threatened to not sign him at all after his poor summer league showing :lol

I want to say Kawhi was the first player the Spurs drafted that legit got 120 without a fight. Hill got 80 percent, which was so slow that one of the later years had to be adjusted upwards because it was below the min.

For example, James Anderson got $1,361,400 against a scale of $1,134,500. The Spurs used to be quite mercenary about rookie contracts. I don't remember if the 2011 CBA is the one that made 120 percent basically the standard, but since Kawhi (including Joseph), the Spurs have been giving out 120 percent. It was to the point that I had just assume my chart already accounted for that.

EDIT Wow, okay, I guess I forgot how to do math or thought 1.36 was 1.16 or something. I remember one of his years wasn't 120. But I would have to look more into this to see if I could remember which one.

[k830713]

Can Chris Paul sign later for the MLE exception?? Then 25 million will be available.

[Dex]

Sorry if already posted:

1809639146069143903

[DPG21920]

The Spurs have CHI25:2 (Chicago's natural second-rounder for this upcoming draft), and I would imagine that would hold decent value for a rebuilding Bulls. The Kings have four seconds they can move (or least did after the draft):

One of SAC25:2 or POR25:2, SAC28:2, SAC29:2 and SAC31:2

I don't know that they can afford to trade a whole bunch of them. But do you know what they can afford to trade? And unprotected 2029 swap. I think there's a good chance we see something like the Bullock trade happen again where the Spurs take salary and give up some seconds in exchange for a distant swap.

That would make sense. I think for me the bigger picture is spurs wont be sending out net picks in this deal. They may send out a pick(s) but they will recoup equal or greater value in addition to Barnes or Huerter IMO

[DPG21920]

This is good for our remote chances at that CHA pick.

1809662134843846938

Clippers miss out on their chance at scoring the woman abuser trifecta.

This is great news. CHA if LaMelo is healthy has a chance to sneak in via play-in now.

[jeebus]

I'd rather have Huerter cause he's younger, although we'd have a logjam at SG then and really need another PF.

I doubt either player would stay long; probably just a season or two and that's it.

[scott]

This is great news. CHA if LaMelo is healthy has a chance to sneak in via play-in now.

Yeah, I'd feel even more optimistic if they had taken Clingan instead of Salaun, but at least this gives them an outside shot.

[Dverde]

Not feeling Spurs would do all this stretching for Harrison Barnes to trade later on. This has to be for Huerter.

[dbestpro]

Could Johnson be going to Sacramento for Barnes and Huerter? Then Sacramento signs Derozan.

[Chinook]

That would make sense. I think for me the bigger picture is spurs wont be sending out net picks in this deal. They may send out a pick(s) but they will recoup equal or greater value in addition to Barnes or Huerter IMO

Well what's a net pick?

I could see something like:

Spurs: Three seconds (including CHI25:2), Bassey for Barnes/Huerter and swap rights to SAC29

Kings: Barnes/Huerter and swap rights to SAC29 for DeRozan (via S&T)

Bulls: DeRozan (via S&T) for Bassey, CHI25:2

I don't think that's a great deal for the Spurs, but if they believe the SAC wing would be a rotation player, it's probably on par with what they got in the Bullock trade.

[DPG21920]

Well what's a net pick?

I could see something like:

Spurs: Three seconds (including CHI25:2), Bassey for Barnes/Huerter and swap rights to SAC29

Kings: Barnes/Huerter and swap rights to SAC29 for DeRozan (via S&T)

Bulls: DeRozan (via S&T) for Bassey, CHI25:2

I don't think that's a great deal for the Spurs, but if they believe the SAC wing would be a rotation player, it's probably on par with what they got in the Bullock trade.

Net pick means they get something in terms of pick of greater or equal value back when we evaluate it. I wouldn’t mind a small net loss to be clear, as you outlined above but I dont think that’s going to happen personally.

[RC_Drunkford]

I doubt either player would stay long; probably just a season or two and that's it.

nor should they, but a young Huerter should be more valuable on the trade market.

[scott]

Pls keep Prince Bassey's name out your damn mouths. Use Champ's instead. Kthx.

[r0drig0lac]

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1809668672740294971

[LeBowen]

Pls keep Prince Bassey's name out your damn mouths. Use Champ's instead. Kthx.

I'm afraid Bassey's knees are done with basketball.
Didn't he have two surgeries already?

[timvp]

Bertans and Poku waived at the same time? DAF86 get in here

[scott]

I'm afraid Bassey's knees are done with basketball.
Didn't he have two surgeries already?

I DO NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT

[Chinook]

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1809668672740294971

If there's even a one-percent chance he lives up to his potential, you've got to take him.

[DPG21920]

Pls keep Prince Bassey's name out your damn mouths. Use Champ's instead. Kthx.

lol I like Champ more than Bassey

[baseline bum]

This is great news. CHA if LaMelo is healthy has a chance to sneak in via play-in now.

I wouldn't get your hopes too high, as they were only 7-15 in games he played last year. They going tanking another year.

[DPG21920]

I wouldn't get your hopes too high, as they were only 7-15 in games he played last year. They going tanking another year.

Sure but he was out half the season etc…I think between how he came back after suspension with rust and all the turbulence it’s not exactly great scenario. Dont get me wrong I dont think it’s “likely” but there was ZERO chance they lose him and make play-in. Now? There’s at least a reasonable chance if LaMelo stays healthy with Miller and Bridges that they can get there especially with virtually all other non-playoff teams tanking.

It’s ATL + CHA as leaders for play-in. Then they just need to get hot for 2 games

[Dex]

I wouldn't get your hopes too high, as they were only 7-15 in games he played last year. They going tanking another year.

Aren't the Hornets perpetually (and unintentionally) tanking?

Even if they snuck into the play-in or playoffs, they'd get obliterated by the top 4 in the East (Celtics, Sixers, Bucks, Knicks)

[baseline bum]

Yeah, I'd feel even more optimistic if they had taken Clingan instead of Salaun, but at least this gives them an outside shot.

https://media1.tenor.com/m/5jDSOUZB8C4AAAAd/ben-simmons-airball.gif

[LeBowen]

I wouldn't get your hopes too high, as they were only 7-15 in games he played last year. They going tanking another year.

Someone has to make the play-in.

Nets, Wizards, Pistons and Bulls should be out of the picture.
Raptors and Hornets will be better, but will also want to tank and that's 6 teams already, one makes the play-in.
Hawks being the other probable play-in team.

[Dejounte]

Bertans and Poku waived at the same time? DAF86 (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11102) get in here
Risacher is the next to be waived in four years tbh

[Spurs Brazil]

@JMcdonald_SAEN
The pick Spurs are sending to Charlotte along with Graham is a 2025 second-rounder acquired from New Orleans -- in the deal that sent Graham to the Spurs in the first place

[slick'81]

Spurs must of hated parting with that 2:rollin

[Kevin]

Spurs are punting on a lot of picks including the 8 this year. Asset hoarders are an interesting lot.

[Spurs Brazil]

https://twitter.com/_Andrew_Lopez/status/1809669207447294444

[SpursBills]

Damn, doesn't OKC own an unprotected Clippers 2025 swap and 2026 pick? Now that Bridges resigned with Charlotte, if Kawhi goes down again and Harden's lost two steps I really don't want that team ending up with yet another lottery / top 4 pick x 2

[scott]

https://twitter.com/_Andrew_Lopez/status/1809669207447294444

Live look at Brian Wright

https://media1.tenor.com/m/Lva6Gfs-lsMAAAAC/i-am-rich.gif

[Dejounte]

Broooooo if the Spurs land either Huerter or Barnes and then they get Markkanen…
scott SHUT UP and let me dream

[Chinook]

https://twitter.com/_Andrew_Lopez/status/1809669207447294444

Charlotte had to send something (I think $750k) to make it a legal trade. That adds to the value of what the Spurs "sold" the pick for.

[scott]

The min cash used to be $110k, did that go up?

[Obstructed_View]

Spurs are punting on a lot of picks including the 8 this year. Asset hoarders are an interesting lot.
But Tim Duncan, so shut up if you think you're so smart. ;)

[scott]

Broooooo if the Spurs land either Huerter or Barnes and then they get Markkanen…
scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150) SHUT UP and let me dream

It would make punting on 8 make sense.

Word I'm hearing though is that we're working the phones for some far out swaps. Stay tuned.

[Bruno]

Spurs didn't pay a lot to dump Graham. Spurs have three 2025 second round pick (own, Bulls and Pelicans) and they are sending the one that will likely be the worst. Great trade. :tu

I do hope Spurs did this trade because they want to use their cap space and that it isn't just a financial trade. If Spurs are cheap at that point, it would be very worrisome for the future...

[LeBowen]

Broooooo if the Spurs land either Huerter or Barnes and then they get Markkanen…
scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150) SHUT UP and let me dream

CP3/Tre
Devin/Branham
Castle/Champagnie
Lauri/Barnes
Wemby/Brook

Second round, here we come.

[scott]

CP3/Tre
Devin/Branham
Castle/Champagnie
Lauri/Barnes
Wemby/Brook

Second round, here we come.

How would you feel about things if you swapped Huerter for Bran and Barnes for Sochan?

[RC_Drunkford]

Broooooo if the Spurs land either Huerter or Barnes and then they get Markkanen…
scott (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=150) SHUT UP and let me dream

exactly my line of thinking. If only the Spurs would be that aggressive for once.

[vy65]

How would you feel about things if you swapped Huerter for Bran and Barnes for Sochan?

You shut your whore mouth

[LeBowen]

How would you feel about things if you swapped Huerter for Bran and Barnes for Sochan?

I don't want Huerter because Pop is unreasonable when it comes to 3-no-D shooters and would play him too much.

I just want Markkanen, other moves aren't as important in the big picture. Regardless of who comes in this trade, won't be a long-term piece.

[CGD]

Spurs didn't pay a lot to dump Graham. Spurs have three 2025 second round pick (own, Bulls and Pelicans) and they are sending the one that will likely be the worst. Great trade. :tu

I do hope Spurs did this trade because they want to use their cap space and that it isn't just a financial trade. If Spurs are cheap at that point, it would be very worrisome for the future...

Feels like in the last 24 hours whatever they where hoping to use the Graham piece for (Markenen or otherwise) didnt materialize, and they pivoted to the Derozan thing. The extra ~3M they opened up should help make sure they can facilitate the SAC trade and the Paul signing no?

[timvp]

Nuggets had to trade three second rounders to dump Reggie Jackson's $5.2 million salary. Only one second rounder for Graham and his $2.85 million guarantee is pretty impressive in comparison.

Graham deserves some credit because if he doesn't agree to delay the guarantee, the Spurs are likely out another second rounder.

[LeBowen]

Feels like in the last 24 hours whatever they where hoping to use the Graham piece for (Markenen or otherwise) didnt materialize, and they pivoted to the Derozan thing. The extra ~3M they opened up should help make sure they can facilitate the SAC trade and the Paul signing no?

Graham's salary doesn't make sense if we're matching Markkanen's $18M.

Keldon is on $19M and Collins is on $16.7M this season.

Collins+Keldon+Branham+Sochan matches other Collins+Lauri perfectly.
I'd honestly do that trade if it lowers the amount of picks required.

[Obstructed_View]

Nuggets had to trade three second rounders to dump Reggie Jackson's $5.2 million salary. Only one second rounder for Graham and his $2.85 million guarantee is pretty impressive in comparison.

Graham deserves some credit because if he doesn't agree to delay the guarantee, the Spurs are likely out another second rounder.

Someone mentioned that they didn't know why Graham agreed to do that. I know the Spurs wouldn't do him dirty, but was there risk for him?

[Chinook]

Someone mentioned that they didn't know why Graham agreed to do that. I know the Spurs wouldn't do him dirty, but was there risk for him?

Typically, players "get something out of" amending their deals like this given their leverage. It's possible Graham would've been signed to a better deal if he were allowed to hit the market on 07/01. But he still has a lot of time. It was a risk, even a small one, and credit to Graham if he did it for free even knowing the Spurs had no intention of keeping him.

[RC_Drunkford]

if we get a first from the Kings we're trading for Lauri

[DAF86]

Bertans and Poku waived at the same time? DAF86 get in here

Do it PATFO.

[Spurs Brazil]

https://twitter.com/JMcDonald_SAEN/status/1809686067890847947