2024 NBA Off-Season Thread (FA, Trades, Extensions, Rumors)

[Arguendo]

Theoretic upside or realistic?Does downside risk factor in at all?

LM has played in 71% of his teams games over 7 seasons, MB has played in 100%, never missed a game. Bridges was #2 in DPOY b4 being miscast as the #1 without help. Neither of these guys have true #1 upside.
LM has more Off upside but it’s not a huge gap (team wide, individually there’s a much larger gap), there is a huge gap in Def upside. Bridges is a more versatile player/fits into more lineups.
Unique reasons for Knicks to overpay: Nova connection, ready to win, NY can afford any tax, NY is premiere city/easy to get FA/picks matter less, cross-city tax

I like LM, but think it’s very likely he continues to miss 25-30% of games, with a big chance to start missing a lot more. I’ll take a slightly less”valuable” guy that’s always there over a marginally better guy who’s lucky to give you 75% availability 10 times out of 10. Think think this also factored into NYKs overpay, very unique situation, rather than setting the market imo.

[DesignatedT]

Way too much. Maybe CHA25, CHI25, SAS27, & MIN31

[RC_Drunkford]

CHI 25, Hornets 25, ATL 27, Minny 31, best of 2030 swap, Keldon Johnson and 2 second rounders sounds reasonable to me. Might have to add another first max, but not the 25 ATL.

[jeebus]

https://twitter.com/JakeLFischer/status/1807816603117175198

[LeBowen]

Would be a great addition.
We're speaking this shit into existance, tbh. :lol

[Dverde]

CHI 25, Hornets 25, ATL 27, Minny 31, best of 2030 swap, Keldon Johnson and 2 second rounders sounds reasonable to me. Might have to add another first max, but not the 25 ATL.

I agree with this one. I would include ATL 27 and they should want that Minny 31 pick.

[WaywardTexan]

Holy shit put down the drugs.

The only drug Chinook is taking is TRUTH serum! #GSG

[Mugen]

Neither the CHI '25 or the CHA '25 pick is conveying next year. Any competent GM would know that tbh.

[Robz4000]

Derrick White got extended by the Celtics. Well deserved tbh.

:cry there goes my hopes of bringing him back :cry

[Notorious H.O.P.]

Since it was his wife that posted this, I assume Batum is done.

https://www.si.com/nba/clippers/news/clippers-player-to-retire-after-2023-24-nba-season

[Dejounte]

Derrick White got extended by the Celtics. Well deserved tbh.

:cry there goes my hopes of bringing him back :cry

Another example of how pristine Spurs choices (the type Mr Body keeps hoping for) will never become available

[BatManu20]

D-White on a 4-yr/$125.9M deal is a steal for the Celtics considering some of the contracts have been handed out the past few days. Great deal for them tbh.

[Chinook]

You can't trade swaps. You can only trade picks with swaps included. The Spurs could trade their 2030 pick, which currently includes swap rights like MIN and DAL, but they don't get to have their own pick back at the end of that.

[Degoat]

Will get Batum, guaranteed wembys been talking to him

[CGD]

Y’all are wildin out on Lauri lol. I like the Batum and/or Kyle Anderson pick ups though.

[RC_Drunkford]

Would be a great addition.
We're speaking this shit into existance, tbh. :lol

Brian Wright is reading spurstalk to figure out how to build this roster :lol

[NASpurs]

Y’all are wildin out on Lauri lol. I like the Batum and/or Kyle Anderson pick ups though.

Fathead is gone.

[Mugen]

Frankly, the ATL pick to keep is '27. I could see Young being gone by then.

[exstatic]

Jalen Smith to the Bulls. Sorry ex :lol

How much did he get? lol

[Atl Spur]

Brian Wright is reading spurstalk to figure out how to build this roster :lol

Is he? I doubt it with clowns like you posting:) Let B Dub cook little buddy….

[Leetonidas]

How much did he get? lol

Think I saw it was 3 yrs/27 mil

[Ariel]

https://x.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1807819467508134049
Wow, what a bargain. Compare that to the average 35M per year Quickley got. Boston's FO is top 3 in the league.

[exstatic]

Frankly, the ATL pick to keep is '27. I could see Young being gone by then.

I 100% see him opting out in 2026 if they don’t trade him. They should move him before next summer to avoid him becoming a rental, and losing even more value.

[exstatic]

Think I saw it was 3 yrs/27 mil

Well, apparently, his hips aren’t flexible enough to allow good lateral movement on D. He has some good qualities, and his PER was higher than Aytons last season. He’ll do well for them.

[Spurs9]

Crazy in this era fathead gets that much. I'm good with Batum, don't really want Lauri, too much draft capital to give up for a average dude.

[Dejounte]

Obviously this is a long way from reality but…

if the Spurs land Paul, Batum, AND Markkanen (within reason)… that’s an A++++ offseason.

[Pauleta14]

Will get Batum, guaranteed wembys been talking to him

I think the challenge isn't to make him choose the Spurs but to extend his career.

He planned to stop this summer after the Olympics initially

[Knoxxx]

I mean as in we could probably get Markkanen for Hawks, Bulls and Minnesota FRPs and still have all of our own picks and those swaps.

Right, nice thinking, keep up the good work!

[GoSpurs99]

The Bulls' trading for Josh Giddey was the 'final straw,' and now DeMar DeRozan is no longer looking to stay with the Bulls, per @JCowleyHoops

“A source told the Sun-Times late Sunday night that the Alex Caruso-Josh Giddey trade was the final straw in DeRozan’s mind for any sort of return, as the 34-year-old will now use his free agency to shop elsewhere.”

1807827071986475304

[cd98]

They just gave a backup center 30 million dollars a year :lol

I'm talking about draft assets. But he isn't their back up center. I bet he starts and Chet plays power forward. They want muscle at the center position.

[Mugen]

Derozan will be a Clipper tbh.

Bummer that the Chicago pick won't convey next year.

[Dverde]

GSW could try a sign and trade for Derozan. Bribe Chicago to take Wiggins with draft picks.

[Seventyniner]

Well, I can’t figure out how to post a tweet :downspin:

Type in

[ tweet]##########[/tweet ]

where ########## is the number on the tweet url, in your case it's 1807827071986475304, and delete the spaces in the brackets.

1807827071986475304

[Pauleta14]

Derozan will be a Clipper tbh.

Bummer that the Chicago pick won't convey next year.

I almost prefer the top8 protected in 26' tbh. We have already 2 1RP garanteed in 25'

[GoSpurs99]

Type in

[ tweet]##########[/tweet ]

where ########## is the number on the tweet url, in your case it's 1807827071986475304, and delete the spaces in the brackets.

1807827071986475304

Thanks man!

[Dverde]

The source has spoken.

https://x.com/ericzhangnba/status/1807785935511372055?s=46

[BatManu20]

That Bulls pick is never gonna convey tbh :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

Is he? I doubt it with clowns like you posting:) Let B Dub cook little buddy….

tell me the future faggot :lol

[RC_Drunkford]

Fuck DeRozan on the Bulls would‘ve ensured that the pick conveys. Now the Bulls might be worse than the Hawks.

[Atl Spur]

tell me the future faggot :lol

I was just making sure I still own your soul…. Have a wonderful day big dog!

[MannyIsGod]

These fucking picks taht never convey man

[RC_Drunkford]

I was just making sure I still own your soul…. Have a wonderful day big dog!

Ms. Cleo is still delusional I see. Tell us how we should trade for Porzingis :lmao where is your boy Primo?

[Dverde]

These fucking picks taht never convey man

We just got a #8 pick from Toronto :lol

[Dverde]

https://x.com/TheSteinLine/status/1807842833522741474

[LeBowen]

Klay to Dallas, 50/3.

Kryie/Klay/Luka defense will surely be something.

[Mugen]

Bummer about Batum likely ending up in LA. Guess his wife won out on choosing the better city tbh :lol

[NASpurs]

Klay to Dallas, 50/3.

Kryie/Klay/Luka defense will surely be something.

No one wanting to play for the Lakers :lol

[Degoat]

Glad he didn’t choose the lakers lol I’m sure Demar ends up there tho.

Spurs just need to trade for Cam Johnson and call it a day.

[emanueldavidginobili]

Batum 2 years 10.6 to the Clippers

[NASpurs]

Didn't his wife want him to go to LA or retire? It's Jason Kidd all over again :lol

[Degoat]

Welcome back Cedi Osman… jk jk but I wouldn’t be surprised

[spurraider21]

bah... batum would have been nice

[itzsoweezee]

Damn, Klay is signing for peanuts (relatively)

[SpursFan86]

Shame re: Batum, would’ve been a nice veteran addition at a position where we could use the help.

[Obstructed_View]

Didn't his wife want him to go to LA or retire? It's Jason Kidd all over again :lol
Yeah he was never going to sign anywhere else.

[BatManu20]

Even though he’s clearly passed his prime, Klay is still a big pickup for Dallas. Still an Elite shooter despite his defensive drop-off. Will get open looks thanks to Luka and will open up space since you can’t sag off him.

With Denver and the Clippers seemingly taking a step backwards, think the Mavs have a legit shot at finishing top-3 in the West next year if they can stay healthy. OKC and Minny being the other favs obv.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Dallas probably need to trade someone like Josh Green to complete the Klay deal. I'd love helping them out and taking him into the Spurs cap space lol

[BatManu20]

Dallas probably need to trade someone like Josh Green to complete the Klay deal. I'd love helping them out and taking him into the Spurs cap space lol

He’s already being sent to Charlotte in that same deal.

[exstatic]

That Bulls pick is never gonna convey tbh :lol

People said the exact same thing about the Tornto pick. I think you’re wrong for one reason: they don’t seem to be stripping their roster down. It looks much more like we’ll get the pick in the late lottery.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

He’s already being sent to Charlotte in that same deal.

Ah shame.

[Dverde]

Poor DDR…Lakers picked Westbrick over him than pick PG, Klay over him again…now your the plan C to be plan C on Lebron’s father/son retirement tour.

[Raven]

klay to dallas with josh green going to charlotte, means that dallas will play A LOT slower next year.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1807851799413436833

[ace3g]

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1807852386741878934

[Dverde]

https://x.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/1807847220999606766

:lol Warriors going hold up the deal so they can try some sweet talk to stay together for the kids. Either that or that want more compensation for being Klay’s Ex.

[MannyIsGod]

People said the exact same thing about the Tornto pick. I think you’re wrong for one reason: they don’t seem to be stripping their roster down. It looks much more like we’ll get the pick in the late lottery.

Dude the already lost Caruso and are about to lose Demar. How much more do you think they can strip down a not very good team?

[Seventyniner]

Dude the already lost Caruso and are about to lose Demar. How much more do you think they can strip down a not very good team?

The Bulls pick looks quite unlikely to convey in 2025. Maybe they won't tank so hard the following two seasons when the protection drops to 1-8.

The chances that the pick ever conveys certainly took a hit in the last week, but I won't give up on it just yet.

[Notorious H.O.P.]

https://x.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/1807847220999606766

:lol Warriors going hold up the deal so they can try some sweet talk to stay together for the kids. Either that or that want more compensation for being Klay’s Ex.

GS is pissed because Klay turned down the 2/48 they had previously offered him last year for a rival's 3/50 this year. A lot of butthurt between both sides. GS won't be doing him a favor. They'll want some kind of decent return.

[rascal]

People said the exact same thing about the Tornto pick. I think you’re wrong for one reason: they don’t seem to be stripping their roster down. It looks much more like we’ll get the pick in the late lottery.

Toronto tried hard to make the pick not convey and I see Chicago doing the same especially in a deep 25 draft class.

[RC_Drunkford]

so Klay felt disrespected by the Dubs offering him 2/48 and instead takes 3/50 from the Mavs? Make it make sense :lol

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

so Klay felt disrespected by the Dubs offering him 2/48 and instead takes 3/50 from the Mavs? Make it make sense :lol

GS offer a very fair, friendly to him 2/48, but he's not self aware enough to realize it. He burns bridges, hits the market and it turns out he's not been self aware, so reality hits.

[Spurs Homer]

so Klay felt disrespected by the Dubs offering him 2/48 and instead takes 3/50 from the Mavs? Make it make sense :lol

it makes perfect sense: entitled little warrior bitches act like that when they dont get their way- same as they did on the court during their “gifted” titles

[Pauleta14]

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1807862481286844921

[DPG21920]

Dallas probably need to trade someone like Josh Green to complete the Klay deal. I'd love helping them out and taking him into the Spurs cap space lol

I thought Dallas had a TE big enough for that Klay deal?

[DPG21920]

He’s already being sent to Charlotte in that same deal.

Huh? What deal?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Huh? What deal?

Apparently a sign and trade where Klay goes to Dallas, Green goes to Charlotte and stuff goes to GS. Not finalized, probably a weird one to be completed, especially from the GS side.

[DPG21920]

Apparently a sign and trade where Klay goes to Dallas, Green goes to Charlotte and stuff goes to GS. Not finalized, probably a weird one to be completed, especially from the GS side.

I’m saying wheee did cha appear from? Or just a rumor?

[RC_Drunkford]

I’m saying wheee did cha appear from? Or just a rumor?

1807844416163664317

[DPG21920]

Thanks! I missed that. But still confused because I thought Dallas had a large enough TE to take in Klay

[RC_Drunkford]

Brook Lopez would be a nice addition, just not sure what and who the Bucks want in return. I doubt it's Zach Collins. And I wouldn't trade a first for him neither. Give them 5 second round picks.

[Bruno]

At that stage, I'm quite expecting Spurs to re-sign Osman and Mamu to one year contracts, waiving Graham and calling it an off-season. The idea behind these moves would be to keep a lot of flexibility.

That would make a shitty off-season for Spurs.

[DPG21920]

At that stage, I'm quite expecting Spurs to re-sign Osman and Mamu to one year contracts, waiving Graham and calling it an off-season. The idea behind these moves would be to keep a lot of flexibility.

That would make a shitty off-season for Spurs.

So bad if that’s true & punting pick 8 for that makes less sense

[LeBowen]

Brook Lopez would be a nice addition, just not sure what and who the Bucks want in return. I doubt it's Zach Collins. And I wouldn't trade a first for him neither. Give them 5 second round picks.

Tre and Keldon for Brook kind of makes sense.
They'd have to add a couple of scrubs to match salaries.

They desperately need some depth on the perimeter and a backup point guard to load manage Lillard without sacrificing too many wins in the regular season.

[spurraider21]

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1807862481286844921
dont quite see how this works. what do we give to match salaries? do they really want Zollins back who has a longer contract than BroLo? and if not, do we really want to roster Wemby, Lopez, and Collins at the same time making all that money. we want to re-try the Wemby at PF stuff?

i mean if they want to take Zollins back you obviously explore it, but i wouldnt give a first to get that done.

[RC_Drunkford]

Tre and Keldon for Brook kind of makes sense.
They'd have to add a couple of scrubs to match salaries.

They desperately need some depth on the perimeter and a backup point guard to load manage Lillard without sacrificing too many wins in the regular season.

that would be too much to give up on our side. We'd have to get a first rounder out of that and then make another trade for an SF. That deal would make our roster worse. We could probably take part of Lopez salary into cap space and create a trade exception for the Bucks or something in that framework.

[LeBowen]

that would be too much to give up on our side. We'd have to get a first rounder out of that and then make another trade for an SF. That deal would make our roster worse. We could probably take part of Lopez salary into cap space and create a trade exception for the Bucks or something in that framework.

Just to be clear, I don't really see the point of getting someone like Brook only to be Wemby's backup.
I don't want another big to start with Wemby.

I don't really value Keldon, at this point he's got nothing going for him except for his energy and positive attitude.
Tre is an expiring and with CP3 addition I want Castle to play some actual point guard minutes, which won't happen if Tre is on the roster.

In short, I don't want Brook, but I want both Keldon and Tre gone.

[Degoat]

I’d like Bobby Portis, idk about Lopez I think he’s pretty much washed at this point.

[CGD]

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1807862481286844921

That’s the Graham contract

[onechance87]

At that stage, I'm quite expecting Spurs to re-sign Osman and Mamu to one year contracts, waiving Graham and calling it an off-season. The idea behind these moves would be to keep a lot of flexibility.

That would make a shitty off-season for Spurs.

then they for sure could of brought in furphy.I dont understand the reasoning behind that.

[CGD]

dont quite see how this works. what do we give to match salaries? do they really want Zollins back who has a longer contract than BroLo? and if not, do we really want to roster Wemby, Lopez, and Collins at the same time making all that money. we want to re-try the Wemby at PF stuff?

i mean if they want to take Zollins back you obviously explore it, but i wouldnt give a first to get that done.

I think it’s more MIL wanting to move Brook. They need to shed salary. A Zach or Brook trade straight up works, but I think we’d need a small asset coming back. Spurs are doing them the favor here bc of their money issues.

[RC_Drunkford]

Just to be clear, I don't really see the point of getting someone like Brook only to be Wemby's backup.
I don't want another big to start with Wemby.

I don't really value Keldon, at this point he's got nothing going for him except for his energy and positive attitude.
Tre is an expiring and with CP3 addition I want Castle to play some actual point guard minutes, which won't happen if Tre is on the roster.

In short, I don't want Brook, but I want both Keldon and Tre gone.

well we do need a rim protector coming off the bench to actually have a good defense, cause clearly Zach Collins ain't doing it. On the other hand Bassey might be able to handle that role, but I wouldn't be opposed to getting Brook, cause he can also stretch the floor.

[Mugen]

BroLo makes no sense for this team tbh.

[Raven]

brook lopez would be an awful idea, makes negative zero sense

[Dverde]

Brook Lopez is expiring and could get us more draft picks at the deadline. Help mentor Wemby while Chris Paul works with the guards. Put him in the Thad Young bubble so he doesn’t hurt his value with injury.

[Chinook]

BroLo makes no sense for this team tbh.

Lopez would be a huge upgrade over Collins. It would give the Spurs the best defensive center rotation in the league. Especially if the Spurs are trying to swing a win-now trade, paying some second to turn Zach into Brook would be a huge win.

[Pauleta14]

dont quite see how this works. what do we give to match salaries? do they really want Zollins back who has a longer contract than BroLo? and if not, do we really want to roster Wemby, Lopez, and Collins at the same time making all that money. we want to re-try the Wemby at PF stuff?

i mean if they want to take Zollins back you obviously explore it, but i wouldnt give a first to get that done.


That’s the Graham contract

[Robz4000]

Lopez would be a huge upgrade over Collins. It would give the Spurs the best defensive center rotation in the league. Especially if the Spurs are trying to swing a win-now trade, paying some second to turn Zach into Brook would be a huge win.

If we could turn Collins and some seconds into Lopez I'm all for it, but I figure it'd take more than that.

[Pauleta14]

Brook Lopez is expiring and could get us more draft picks at the deadline. Help mentor Wemby while Chris Paul works with the guards. Put him in the Thad Young bubble so he doesn’t hurt his value with injury.

Exactly.

Either tradable or if great fit extend

[CGD]

Lopez would be a huge upgrade over Collins. It would give the Spurs the best defensive center rotation in the league. Especially if the Spurs are trying to swing a win-now trade, paying some second to turn Zach into Brook would be a huge win.

Exactly

[ginobilized]

I'm down with BroLo.
He is infinitely better than Collins at everything. He can body up Embiid, Gobert, AD, Jokic, etc. which will let Wemby be the 7'4" free safety.
IQ and shooting goes way up.

[Mugen]

Lopez would be a huge upgrade over Collins. It would give the Spurs the best defensive center rotation in the league. Especially if the Spurs are trying to swing a win-now trade, paying some second to turn Zach into Brook would be a huge win.

It'd be a significant upgrade for a backup position. I'd rather they try to upgrade their closing lineup if they were actually trying to win games next year tbh.

[DPG21920]

If spurs are aiming to be a max space for future team they should be looking to move Keldon for 1 year deal players that can improve the team and where they get a pick possibly. Keldon for Brook + a pick makes a lot of sense in this regard.

[spurraider21]

if they want cap relief then they're not going to want collins who has an additional year. Graham could make some sense since we can probably absorb the remainder of lopez' salary.

[Chinook]

If spurs are aiming to be a max space for future team they should be looking to move Keldon for 1 year deal players that can improve the team and where they get a pick possibly. Keldon for Brook + a pick makes a lot of sense in this regard.

I'm glad I can say I was here to see your entire arc from not wanting to trade Keldon to trying to trade him in basically every post.

[Obstructed_View]

It'd be a significant upgrade for a backup position. I'd rather they try to upgrade their closing lineup if they were actually trying to win games next year tbh.
Collins is a backup because he sucks. I don't see why Lopez and Vic can't play together.

[Chinook]

if they want cap relief then they're not going to want collins who has an additional year. Graham could make some sense since we can probably absorb the remainder of lopez' salary.

They want tax relief and to get younger while still being competitive. They don't need cap space in 2025, so Collins being locked in doesn't affect them.

[Robz4000]

If spurs are aiming to be a max space for future team they should be looking to move Keldon for 1 year deal players that can improve the team and where they get a pick possibly. Keldon for Brook + a pick makes a lot of sense in this regard.

Keldon > Lopez in terms of value.

[Chinook]

If we could turn Collins and some seconds into Lopez I'm all for it, but I figure it'd take more than that.

Right now, the Bucks seem to want to make a move but can't bring themselves to break up Lillard/Middleton/Giannis. Lopez is their most likely piece to shake up. Bucks fans just wanted a couple of seconds for the swap, but I imagine the Bucks would want to see if a bigger deal could be swung to move the needle before settling on the savings and age.

[spurraider21]

im not dealing keldon for BroLo

keldon is on a solid, declining contract. with the upcoming cap increase starting next year, his contract is going to be really appealing to buyers

[spurraider21]

Right now, the Bucks seem to want to make a move but can't bring themselves to break up Lillard/Middleton/Giannis. Lopez is their most likely piece to shake up. Bucks fans just wanted a couple of seconds for the swap, but I imagine the Bucks would want to see if a bigger deal could be swung to move the needle before settling on the savings and age.
two SRPs and 2 SRP swaps

[Mugen]

Collins is a backup because he sucks. I don't see why Lopez and Vic can't play together.

:lol It took the senile old man half a season to realize Wemby's best position is at the 5. I'm not moving Wemby off that just so we could try and accommodate a shitty fit with Lopez tbh.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

Unloading Collins for Lopez would get the Bucks out of the second apron and open up the taxpayer mid-level exception for them to sign someone else. They need depth to eat up minutes, badly.

[Obstructed_View]

:lol It took the senile old man half a season to realize Wemby's best position is at the 5. I'm not moving Wemby off that just so we could try and accommodate a shitty fit with Lopez tbh.
It wasn't Victor playing out of position, it was Collins starting.

[CGD]

Unloading Collins for Lopez would get the Bucks out of the second apron and open up the taxpayer mid-level exception for them to sign someone else. They need depth to eat up minutes, badly.

This is why I think THEY need to send us an asset. Zach is a good fall back plan for them on a decentish deal.

[Chinook]

Spurs: Collins, Bassey and seconds for Lopez
Bucks: Lopez for Barnes, Bassey and seconds
Pelicans: Ingram for Collins, Huerter and a first
Kings: Ingram for Barnes, Huerter and a first

The Spurs get their target
The Bucks save money and get back a rotational forward (their supposed main off-season goal)
The Pelicans get the center and wing for Ingram along with a pick
The Kings get their "third star" for a pretty cheap price.

[DPG21920]

I'm glad I can say I was here to see your entire arc from not wanting to trade Keldon to trying to trade him in basically every post.

Lmao - Im 100% fine keeping him, Im just using him to try and fit the narrative around SA appears to be doing

[DPG21920]

Keldon > Lopez in terms of value.

Yes. Thats why SA is getting a pick with Lopez. Lopez gives Sa one year of an elite defensive 3PT shooting center (Lopez>>>>Collins), nets SA a pick and clears all of Keldons money off books.

Im not saying that’s my preference; Im pointing out a scenario based on how SA is acting

[DPG21920]

Spurs: Collins, Bassey and seconds for Lopez
Bucks: Lopez for Barnes, Bassey and seconds
Pelicans: Ingram for Collins, Huerter and a first
Kings: Ingram for Barnes, Huerter and a first

The Spurs get their target
The Bucks save money and get back a rotational forward (their supposed main off-season goal)
The Pelicans get the center and wing for Ingram along with a pick
The Kings get their "third star" for a pretty cheap price.

That’s a no brainer for SA. If we can get Lopez and keep Keldon that would be amazing.

[Chinook]

two SRPs and 2 SRP swaps

Only way the Spurs are getting those second-round swaps is if they're throwing in the Hawks pick next year.

[scott]

Spurs: Collins, Bassey and seconds for Lopez
Bucks: Lopez for Barnes, Bassey and seconds
Pelicans: Ingram for Collins, Huerter and a first
Kings: Ingram for Barnes, Huerter and a first

The Spurs get their target
The Bucks save money and get back a rotational forward (their supposed main off-season goal)
The Pelicans get the center and wing for Ingram along with a pick
The Kings get their "third star" for a pretty cheap price.

Can we replace Champagnie for Bassey in these hypotheticals? The basketball reasons are irrelevant, it just hurts me to see my prince so cavalierly thrown away :lol

[Dverde]

The only thing I like about Morey is the guy is a closer…Spurs need to close this deal or move on. Don’t let Danny boy use us as leverage on a deal with another team. Drop the Spurs are out of the sweepstakes the price was too high leaked tweet and do the rest of the league a solid.

[tesseractive]

Unloading Collins for Lopez would get the Bucks out of the second apron and open up the taxpayer mid-level exception for them to sign someone else. They need depth to eat up minutes, badly.

If taking back Collins gets them under the second apron, that's a fantastic deal for both sides. Happy to throw in some seconds to make it happen.

[Ariel]

Lopez would be a huge upgrade over Collins. It would give the Spurs the best defensive center rotation in the league. Especially if the Spurs are trying to swing a win-now trade, paying some second to turn Zach into Brook would be a huge win.
I don't think some 2nds turn Zach Collins (negative contract) into Brook Lopez (positive, albeit not hugely). But if Spurs could pull something like that, then you take it and run.

[Chinook]

Can we replace Champagnie for Bassey in these hypotheticals? The basketball reasons are irrelevant, it just hurts me to see my prince so cavalierly thrown away :lol

The Spurs don't NEED to trade either in this case. The question is if MKE needs to get a center back or if they're fine with Portis starting and Giannis getting a lot more minutes there.

[RC_Drunkford]

if we can turn Collins 2-year deal into Brook Lopez that's some high level GMing

[Chinook]

I don't think some 2nds turn Zach Collins (negative contract) into Brook Lopez (positive, albeit not hugely). But if Spurs could pull something like that, then you take it and run.

I don't think Collins is a negative contract in general. I think he's a horrible fit on the Spurs. He was mistakenly cast first as a combo-big and then as a stretch-big. It seems like he's really a single-big who can do some stretch things sometimes. That's a bad fit on the Spurs -- and if we're honest it's not a much better fit on the Bucks -- but I don't think his contract is that bad in general. Like I think he'd be great with the Knicks. If they still need help making the Bridges trade apron-legal and want to do that via a Randle trade, the Spurs could step in there.

[z0sa]

I'd take Firstborn over Zhaquille Collins any day of the fuckin' week. Throwing in a second to make it work would not even register as a blip on my radar if I were in the FO. One guy was an absolute bricklayer competing with Wemby for FGA/g. The other guy is a defensive stalwart who will actually have the IQ to choose his spots and will knock his looks down a higher clip, guaranteed. Would be hard to say shit about BWright for the rest of this off-season if he can swing something like this.

[Arguendo]

I don't think some 2nds turn Zach Collins (negative contract) into Brook Lopez (positive, albeit not hugely). But if Spurs could pull something like that, then you take it and run.

2nd apron team, limited on what they can do, Brook is only real center on roster so Collin’s could make sense.
Trading Brook saves them millions in tax $ & opens other ROSTER options for Bucks, 2-1 trades, tax MLE.

[exstatic]

Didn't his wife want him to go to LA or retire? It's Jason Kidd all over again :lol

Kyle Korver, more recently.

[LeBowen]

I don't think Collins is a negative contract in general. I think he's a horrible fit on the Spurs. He was mistakenly cast first as a combo-big and then as a stretch-big. It seems like he's really a single-big who can do some stretch things sometimes. That's a bad fit on the Spurs -- and if we're honest it's not a much better fit on the Bucks -- but I don't think his contract is that bad in general. Like I think he'd be great with the Knicks. If they still need help making the Bridges trade apron-legal and want to do that via a Randle trade, the Spurs could step in there.

23-24 version of Zach Collins is a disgustingly bad player, there's no way anyone can spin that.
Forget about his issues on offense, a big with such disgustingly bad defense is never seeing the floor in the playoffs. Never.

[Robz4000]

Yes. Thats why SA is getting a pick with Lopez. Lopez gives Sa one year of an elite defensive 3PT shooting center (Lopez>>>>Collins), nets SA a pick and clears all of Keldons money off books.

Im not saying that’s my preference; Im pointing out a scenario based on how SA is acting

Ah, thought you were saying the Spurs would send a pick with Keldon to get Lopez.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/1807891972494897286

[Notorious H.O.P.]

Celtics handing out huge contracts like crazy and ownership is looking to sell the team so someone else has to pick up the check.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1807899517079151057

[ace3g]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1807896017167151544

[timtonymanu]

Temple still in the league, I still remember when he was on the way to being our next backup PG then he got injured.

[TD 21]

Read above.

They are in position to demand a ransom, because someone will pay it; that's how these things work.

He's not getting to UFA in a true sense. It'll be like Siakam, Anunoby and others, where he'll be traded to a team he's going to re-sign with.

Obviously debatable whether the Spurs should be that team. I'm with you in saying they shouldn't because if/when they blow their load, it should be on a perimeter player, preferably with size.

But make no mistake, whenever and for whoever, they're going to feel pain.

[exstatic]

Dude the already lost Caruso and are about to lose Demar. How much more do you think they can strip down a not very good team?

Caruso didn’t go out in a dump. There was a credible return. DD puts up numbers,but doesn’t really affect winning. Recall the year we offloaded him in a salary dump. We didn’t miss a beat on the treadmill, having close to the same record with Dejounte running the plays.

[objective]

Spurs should add 3-4 seconds to Zollins if that's what it takes to get Lopez and off this whack Zollins deal.

[CGD]

So how much cap space do we have to collect trash contracts for SRPs?

[exstatic]

I’d like Bobby Portis, idk about Lopez I think he’s pretty much washed at this point.

Bobby Portis is a fucking psycho who broke his team mate’s jaw.

[CGD]

Bobby Portis is a fucking psycho who broke his team mate’s jaw.

That he is, but MIL is desperately trying to shed salary. Spurs can just eat the money, while also sending them some youth.

SAS: Lopez + Portis + ____
MIL: Collins + Blake

How much is that blank space worth? Another 2030 FRP swap and 31FRP!?

(Too soon?)

[spurraider21]

i mean if theyre sending portis too then yeah im all for sending out keldon

i doubt bucks want to move both

[ginobilized]

Bobby Portis is a fucking psycho who broke his team mate’s jaw.

That would be another way to get rid of Zollins

[exstatic]

This is why I think THEY need to send us an asset. Zach is a good fall back plan for them on a decentish deal.

The asset is Lopez contract. It’s a continuation of filling out the roster with expirings to exert pressure on Ainge and show that we can just fucking sign Lauri next summer if he continues to be a dick, and I’m here for it.

[Arguendo]

That he is, but MIL is desperately trying to shed salary. Spurs can just eat the money, while also sending them some youth.

SAS: Lopez + Portis + ____
MIL: Collins + Blake

How much is that blank space worth? Another 2030 FRP swap and 31FRP!?

(Too soon?)
Pretty sure they can’t as a 2nd apron team, can only send out a single player at a time (unless a team has cap room/exception to fully absorb-spurs dont), that’s part of the 2nd apron penalty. Can’t do a 2-2, 3-2.
Could do Lopez for Collin’s to get under that apron, but then would have a find a salary match for Portis which isn’t Wesley

[Degoat]

Bobby Portis is a fucking psycho who broke his team mate’s jaw.

That was like 10 years ago, move on already :lol

[CGD]

Can’t as a 2nd apron team, can only send out a single player at a time, that’s part of the 2nd apron penalty. Can’t do a 2-2, 3-2.
Could do Lopez for Collin’s to get under that apron, but then would have a find a salary match for Portis which isn’t Wesley

That, I have no idea. You could well be right with these new rules going into effect now.

[BackHome]

The asset is Lopez contract. It’s a continuation of filling out the roster with expirings to exert pressure on Ainge and show that we can just fucking sign Lauri next summer if he continues to be a dick, and I’m here for it.

Why are you all in for Lauri this year? I thought they are going to be better free agents next year does it make sense to sign him or wait for next year free agents?

[Arguendo]

Not sure how to post an image or imbed a tweet, but Bobby Marks has a good post on Twitter.
one of the rules for 2nd apron is the apron team can’t aggregate ongoing salaries, ie can only send out a single player at a time.
Personally im really going to enjoy these new rules, I think teams that exceed the cap should be punished harshly- set their franchise back years instead of just money to a billionaire who doesn’t care.
That’s about to happen. Another good one is teams are over 2nd apron can’t trade their pick 7 yrs out, if over twice in 4 yrs have their 1st rd pick moved to last in the 1st rd (30th pick 6 yrs out).

This will also give teams that operate under the cap a great shot to get real value for taking on bad contracts.
In this light, think the Spurs are being very smart. Having cap space can get you a FA, a negative value player/contract + assets, or maybe a really good player that a team simply can’t afford to keep for various tax/penalty reasons.

[DAF86]

They are in position to demand a ransom, because someone will pay it; that's how these things work.

He's not getting to UFA in a true sense. It'll be like Siakam, Anunoby and others, where he'll be traded to a team he's going to re-sign with.

Obviously debatable whether the Spurs should be that team. I'm with you in saying they shouldn't because if/when they blow their load, it should be on a perimeter player, preferably with size.

But make no mistake, whenever and for whoever, they're going to feel pain.

I'm not so sure about that. Which team do you see paying that much for Markkanen? People are talking about the Warriors and OKC, but I just don't see it. The Warriors might in a desperate attempt to give Curry one last window but they would be comitting a huge mistake, imho.

[Spurs Homer]

lol

getting portis is asking for trouble -
i can already see him punching out chris paul...

[spurraider21]

Utah may be overplaying their hand the same way Toronto did with OG

[MannyIsGod]

Caruso didn’t go out in a dump. There was a credible return. DD puts up numbers,but doesn’t really affect winning. Recall the year we offloaded him in a salary dump. We didn’t miss a beat on the treadmill, having close to the same record with Dejounte running the plays.

Credible return? That was an awful trade. And if you don't think DDR helps them win then IDK what to tell you but watch as they trade him and get substantially worse the following year.

[Mr. Body]

Utah may be overplaying their hand the same way Toronto did with OG

Right here.

I think Ainge is panicking. While everyone here wants to give up huge bags and Utah fans think they can get Sochan, Vassell, and Castle, Ainge may be realizing he has an expiring contract and no one really bidding much for it.

Why would you give him the farm if you can just wait a year? If you need to clear cap space just use cheaper assets to clear the space.

Could be stuff going on about Darius Garland and so on, but the market seems dead. The costs are too high for these flawed players.

[Mr. Body]

Oh, and why would Markkanen resign with Utah? They've not come close to wanting to win games and that's not going to change.

[TD 21]

I'm not so sure about that. Which team do you see paying that much for Markkanen? People are talking about the Warriors and OKC, but I just don't see it. The Warriors might in a desperate attempt to give Curry one last window but they would be comitting a huge mistake, imho.

Probably the Warriors and who knows who else.

The way it's been reported for a long time is that he'd be in such high demand if he ever came available to the point where someone would have to pay a ransom.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1807922278652330176

[CGD]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1807922278652330176

Damn, one of these days we’ll hear why things got so toxic between Klay and the Warriors organization. Sounds like the cuts were deep.

[timtonymanu]

Another big 3 that the spurs big 3 outlasted >>>

[Chinook]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1807922278652330176

I think the Warriors were holding out hope they could get this wrapped into something like a Markkanen deal. Klay's outgoing salary has to be pretty close to Mark's contract, especially when combined with Kuminga or Looney. Since you can't combined a TE, it would be in GS' best interest to explore all options before this gets finalized in a few days.

[Pauleta14]

Damn, one of these days we’ll hear why things got so toxic between Klay and the Warriors organization. Sounds like the cuts were deep.

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1807896213418545447

[Chinook]

So what would folks think about Randle? With OG and Bridges, it feels like this time in New York is done. He seems like he'd be a good piece for the Bucks if their intention really is to go smaller and younger for Lopez. But the second apron makes that tricky. The Bucks can't do a one-for-one because Randle makes more than Lopez, but they're not allowed to add another player in the deal either. It's a shame, because I think that would be a rare trade where both teams could get what they want. But if the Spurs really are looking for a scoring power-forward, they could probably get Randle for a good deal.

[Mr. Body]

Damn, one of these days we’ll hear why things got so toxic between Klay and the Warriors organization. Sounds like the cuts were deep.

They always seemed like a toxic organization.

[Mugen]

:lol @ the hit pieces starting to come out from both sides.

[Mr. Body]

GSW has to decide if they want to do a big pick package for the Finn or they're done, nothing left.

I'm not sure OKC is interested in a defensive negative like Markkanen.

If so that's it. Other teams will nibble to see if there's a bargain, but no one's liable to really bid right now.

[timtonymanu]

Klay always came across as an entitled little baby. I do kinda feel for Steph cause he doesn’t seem about that drama, but at the same time I don’t feel sorry for him. I’ll never forget their cheap path to titles by signing Durant.

[CGD]

So what would folks think about Randle? With OG and Bridges, it feels like this time in New York is done. He seems like he'd be a good piece for the Bucks if their intention really is to go smaller and younger for Lopez. But the second apron makes that tricky. The Bucks can't do a one-for-one because Randle makes more than Lopez, but they're not allowed to add another player in the deal either. It's a shame, because I think that would be a rare trade where both teams could get what they want. But if the Spurs really are looking for a scoring power-forward, they could probably get Randle for a good deal.

Think they’re largely done on this front, but the wildcard is that Graham deal. I’d look for a “bad fit/second act” guy on another team who has a larger salary. For example, I have posited a DeAndre Hunter type in the past (though the well with ATL specifically seems poisoned for now), who could slide in to the SF role day 1.

[RC_Drunkford]

Light years ahead :lol

[objective]

So what would folks think about Randle? With OG and Bridges, it feels like this time in New York is done. He seems like he'd be a good piece for the Bucks if their intention really is to go smaller and younger for Lopez. But the second apron makes that tricky. The Bucks can't do a one-for-one because Randle makes more than Lopez, but they're not allowed to add another player in the deal either. It's a shame, because I think that would be a rare trade where both teams could get what they want. But if the Spurs really are looking for a scoring power-forward, they could probably get Randle for a good deal.

I've thought about him a lot. I think he could be had cheap because the Knicks are on Tilt. Maybe just Zollins and a protected first and some seconds.

Don't love Randle, but as a reliable pro, he could be a nice grown up. Player option for another year though so no extra room next year, in fact lose 10+ million in space

[ace3g]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1807931503332282445

[daslicer]

Klay always came across as an entitled little baby. I do kinda feel for Steph cause he doesn’t seem about that drama, but at the same time I don’t feel sorry for him. I’ll never forget their cheap path to titles by signing Durant.

I never will feel bad for Steph since he was the biggest enabler of Draymond's thuggery.

[Notorious H.O.P.]

Not sure how to post an image or imbed a tweet, but Bobby Marks has a good post on Twitter.
one of the rules for 2nd apron is the apron team can’t aggregate ongoing salaries, ie can only send out a single player at a time.
Personally im really going to enjoy these new rules, I think teams that exceed the cap should be punished harshly- set their franchise back years instead of just money to a billionaire who doesn’t care.
That’s about to happen. Another good one is teams are over 2nd apron can’t trade their pick 7 yrs out, if over twice in 4 yrs have their 1st rd pick moved to last in the 1st rd (30th pick 6 yrs out).

This will also give teams that operate under the cap a great shot to get real value for taking on bad contracts.
In this light, think the Spurs are being very smart. Having cap space can get you a FA, a negative value player/contract + assets, or maybe a really good player that a team simply can’t afford to keep for various tax/penalty reasons.

So if Minnesota triggers the penalty to have their first round pick moved to the end of the round, how would that work for teams like us who may have traded for that pick far in advance? I assume there is no consideration for who the pick is owed to. Does anyone have any insight on that?

[ace3g]

https://x.com/ChrisBHaynes/status/1807933408225460542

[timtonymanu]

I never will feel bad for Steph since he was the biggest enabler of Draymond's thuggery.

It’s nice seeing them humbled, they had no problem flexing themselves when they were invincible and the moment they go through adversity that they can’t blame on injuries, they melt down and break apart. Can’t go to their clutch of having the commissioner in their back pocket to bail them out anymore. Well deserved, tbh.

[spurraider21]

Oh, and why would Markkanen resign with Utah? They've not come close to wanting to win games and that's not going to change.
they can pay him the most. standard operating procedure is recent years has been re-signing for the max money and then just demanding out later

[Mr. Body]

they can pay him the most. standard operating procedure is recent years has been re-signing for the max money and then just demanding out later

I guess. He'd have to know it'd be really hard to get traded at that point. Getting stuck on this bad treadmill team shouldn't be too appealing. He has maybe three-four years of prime left.

[Chinook]

So if Minnesota triggers the penalty to have their first round pick moved to the end of the round, how would that work for teams like us who may have traded for that pick far in advance? I assume there is no consideration for who the pick is owed to. Does anyone have any insight on that?

The penalty would trigger on their 2032 pick, not 2031. Basically it would trigger before they ever got a chance to trade it.

[Mr. Body]

So if Minnesota triggers the penalty to have their first round pick moved to the end of the round, how would that work for teams like us who may have traded for that pick far in advance? I assume there is no consideration for who the pick is owed to. Does anyone have any insight on that?

I don't think this has been definitively answered, but it seems like the pick gets moved to the back of the round only when the team owns it themselves. So, if the Spurs get it, it doesn't move back. Can't penalize another team for their own cap problems. Interesting thing is whether the swapped Spurs pick then goes to the end, as it now belongs to Minnesota. I assume that this is the case, as a team should not be able to trade out of the stricture.

[Arguendo]

So what would folks think about Randle? With OG and Bridges, it feels like this time in New York is done. He seems like he'd be a good piece for the Bucks if their intention really is to go smaller and younger for Lopez. But the second apron makes that tricky. The Bucks can't do a one-for-one because Randle makes more than Lopez, but they're not allowed to add another player in the deal either. It's a shame, because I think that would be a rare trade where both teams could get what they want. But if the Spurs really are looking for a scoring power-forward, they could probably get Randle for a good deal.

Really like this idea, like Randle and will be rooting for the Knicks in the East next year, and this would be a better fit for both

If Sportrac is correct, Bucks are less then $500K over the second apron (but that's with only 11 spots filled + 2 two-ways), so could do a pure dump salary of a smaller salary like Beauchamp or Green for a smaller salary/min guy to get under, then do the Randle for Lopez but they'd have to include assets or get a 3rd team, but then they'd be back to 2nd apron (with roster spots to fill) and would likely want to make another trade to get under.
But Bucks would likely have to give up assets in all 3 trades and Spotrac says they don't have any tradable firsts until 2031 and no 2nds either. Bucks are in a tough spot. Did Beasley sign somewhere else? He'd put them way over the apron.

Love this new CBA, if you exceed the 2nd apron without a very clear escape plan or a fully set roster, better be prepared to bend the following year.

I was wondering why the Spurs were collecting so many 2nds, makes a lot more sense reading the new rules.

[Chinook]

Just how punitive this final element of the second-apron punishments turns out is what has league executives most curious about this summer’s activity — and how the next few seasons of roster construction unfold. Second-apron teams won’t be able to trade their first-round pick seven years into the future. So, if you’re in the second apron by season’s end of 2024-25, you’ll automatically have your 2032 first-round pick frozen and unable to be dealt. That might seem like a way-off draft asset, but those picks are valuable for contending teams that have already emptied much of their war chests. The Bucks, for instance, sent their 2030 first-round pick to the Portland Trail Blazers (https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/teams/portland/) as part of their September 2023 blockbuster to acquire Damian Lillard (https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/5012/).
And here’s the tricky part: If a team then remains in the second apron for two of the following four seasons, its first-round pick seven years out won’t just be frozen, it will automatically be moved to the end of that first round — or the 30th pick.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-offseason-what-is-the-cbas-second-apron-and-how-does-it-limit-high-spending-teams-215607328.html

So basically, a team can't trade their future pick once it gets frozen. So it's not like Boston could deal its 2032 pick on draft night and write it off because they know it's going to be the 30th pick. Once the tax window passes in April, that pick becomes untradeable, and two years later it becomes locked at 30 unless the Celtics have found a way to slip back under the apron.

And yes, I'm sure the idea of a team being unable to use their 2032 pick in a trade next summer is keeping Wright up at night.

[DAF86]

So what would folks think about Randle? With OG and Bridges, it feels like this time in New York is done. He seems like he'd be a good piece for the Bucks if their intention really is to go smaller and younger for Lopez. But the second apron makes that tricky. The Bucks can't do a one-for-one because Randle makes more than Lopez, but they're not allowed to add another player in the deal either. It's a shame, because I think that would be a rare trade where both teams could get what they want. But if the Spurs really are looking for a scoring power-forward, they could probably get Randle for a good deal.

Ewww, no. :vomit:

[Chinook]

Really like this idea, like Randle and will be rooting for the Knicks in the East next year, and this would be a better fit for both

If Sportrac is correct, Bucks are less then $500K over the second apron (but that's with only 11 spots filled + 2 two-ways), so could do a pure dump salary of a smaller salary like Beauchamp or Green for a smaller salary/min guy to get under, then do the Randle for Lopez but they'd have to include assets or get a 3rd team, but then they'd be back to 2nd apron (with roster spots to fill) and would likely want to make another trade to get under.
But Bucks would likely have to give up assets in all 3 trades and Spotrac says they don't have any tradable firsts until 2031 and no 2nds either. Bucks are in a tough spot. Did Beasley sign somewhere else? He'd put them way over the apron.

Love this new CBA, if you exceed the 2nd apron without a very clear escape plan or a fully set roster, better be prepared to bend the following year.

I was wondering why the Spurs were collecting so many 2nds, makes a lot more sense reading the new rules.

The way it works is the aprons are just tax levels provided a team stays within the rules, but once they cross the rules, the aprons become hard caps that cannot be exceeded no matter what. So in this case, the Bucks are currently over the second apron and could (and should) get under it. However, if they do anything to trigger the second apron, they can't then go back over it. In your example, taking back more salary would trigger the first apron becoming a hard cap, basically causing the league to intervene and force the Bucks to trade whatever salary they needed to to get under the first apron. While they could add a salary like Connaughton to get FAR under the second apron and hope to stay under it, that is a harder sell. The Knicks can't take Pat, so a third team would have to take him basically for nothing.

In other words, the Bucks can't do Lopez for Randle without finding a way to shed enough salary to complete their roster while staying under the second apron. Even if they can achieve that, the trade would have to be structured in such a way as to include extra outgoing salary, which New York cannot take back themselves. This is possible, but not elegant.

[onechance87]

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-offseason-what-is-the-cbas-second-apron-and-how-does-it-limit-high-spending-teams-215607328.html

So basically, a team can't trade their future pick once it gets frozen. So it's not like Boston could deal its 2032 pick on draft night and write it off because they know it's going to be the 30th pick. Once the tax window passes in April, that pick becomes untradeable, and two years later it becomes locked at 30 unless the Celtics have found a way to slip back under the apron.

And yes, I'm sure the idea of a team being unable to use their 2032 pick in a trade next summer is keeping Wright up at night.

well damn....

[Arguendo]

Why are the Knicks on tilt?
They got their guys (Nova baby! + OG), think they love their team and see Randle as the guy who can replenish some draft capital without really changing them on court and lower their tax bill in the process.
What do you'll think his value is?

Dude's been a 24.5/9.5/4.5 guy the past two years, with 2x Allstar appearances and a 3rd team All-NBA, is still in his prime, and is pretty cheap at $31M + $32M option (so a rental if he stays healthy). Been pretty healthy until last yr.

But he's an old school PF that's prolly not a great fit on a current contender and prolly too small for small ball 5 (except maybe with Giannis)
It'll be interesting to see what his value is. What's the going cost for a going-on-30 y/o, productive All-star on a rental that's a career 33% shooter from deep, boards well, good connector, can put the ball on the floor, who plays average D but not super versatile.

[scott]

Really like this idea, like Randle and will be rooting for the Knicks in the East next year, and this would be a better fit for both

If Sportrac is correct, Bucks are less then $500K over the second apron (but that's with only 11 spots filled + 2 two-ways), so could do a pure dump salary of a smaller salary like Beauchamp or Green for a smaller salary/min guy to get under, then do the Randle for Lopez but they'd have to include assets or get a 3rd team, but then they'd be back to 2nd apron (with roster spots to fill) and would likely want to make another trade to get under.
But Bucks would likely have to give up assets in all 3 trades and Spotrac says they don't have any tradable firsts until 2031 and no 2nds either. Bucks are in a tough spot. Did Beasley sign somewhere else? He'd put them way over the apron.

Love this new CBA, if you exceed the 2nd apron without a very clear escape plan or a fully set roster, better be prepared to bend the following year.

I was wondering why the Spurs were collecting so many 2nds, makes a lot more sense reading the new rules.

The Bucks are wild

25 FRP is headed to NOP or NYK
25 SRP is headed to CLE
26 FRP is swapped to NOP
26 SRP is going to ORL or BKN
27 FRP is going to NOP
27 SRP is going to PHI
28 FRP is swapped to POR
28 SRP is going to OKC
29 FRP is going to POR
29 SRP is going to DET
30 FRP is swapped to POR
30 SRP is going to ORL

They now have 31 FRP and SRP they can trade. But this is literally the most bare cupboard in the league - they have traded away every possible asset and have nothing incoming. It's wild.

[Arguendo]

So if Minnesota triggers the penalty to have their first round pick moved to the end of the round, how would that work for teams like us who may have traded for that pick far in advance? I assume there is no consideration for who the pick is owed to. Does anyone have any insight on that?

FWIW, I'm a contract attorney (hence my interest) but not a CBA expert and not pretending to be. Just read several articles and breakdowns cause this stuff interests me, haven't (and won't) read the actual CBA.

My understanding is 7 years out from that offending fiscal year (which just began), so if they are over that threshold this yr, it'd be their 2032 pick that's locked (frozen, cannot be moved) and it looks to be locked until that draft. So its far enough out that a team cannot trade it to another team, generally. There's the situation where a team could trade that pick during the season, then move into the apron, in which case I'm guessing the following years pick would be frozen.

Whatever the case, the CBA 100% will contain language that prevents another team from bearing that burden. I've also seen it reported that it takes 3 years offending in a 5 years period to convert to last, but I've seen the 2/4 number reported more so that's what I quoted.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1807957374423986183

[Arguendo]

I don't think this has been definitively answered, but it seems like the pick gets moved to the back of the round only when the team owns it themselves. So, if the Spurs get it, it doesn't move back. Can't penalize another team for their own cap problems. Interesting thing is whether the swapped Spurs pick then goes to the end, as it now belongs to Minnesota. I assume that this is the case, as a team should not be able to trade out of the stricture.

That unprotected 2031 pick is now 6 years out and not subject to the penalty. The 2032 pick is now 7 years out.

[tbdog]

Any spurs rumors? Graham still on the books. Spurs still need shooting.

[Mr. Body]

Any spurs rumors? Graham still on the books. Spurs still need shooting.

They're about to trade Sochan, Vassell, and Castle for Markkanen.

[Degoat]

Any spurs rumors? Graham still on the books. Spurs still need shooting.

Shooting is such a big glaring need and it seems like they don’t care about it lol

[Arguendo]

The way it works is the aprons are just tax levels provided a team stays within the rules, but once they cross the rules, the aprons become hard caps that cannot be exceeded no matter what. So in this case, the Bucks are currently over the second apron and could (and should) get under it. However, if they do anything to trigger the second apron, they can't then go back over it. In your example, taking back more salary would trigger the first apron becoming a hard cap, basically causing the league to intervene and force the Bucks to trade whatever salary they needed to to get under the first apron. While they could add a salary like Connaughton to get FAR under the second apron and hope to stay under it, that is a harder sell. The Knicks can't take Pat, so a third team would have to take him basically for nothing.

In other words, the Bucks can't do Lopez for Randle without finding a way to shed enough salary to complete their roster while staying under the second apron. Even if they can achieve that, the trade would have to be structured in such a way as to include extra outgoing salary, which New York cannot take back themselves. This is possible, but not elegant.

Good info, thank you. I knew teams could hard cap themselves in both the first and second apron, but didn't remember the details. Makes total sense moving back into the 2nd apron would trigger it.

[exstatic]

Not sure how to post an image or imbed a tweet, but Bobby Marks has a good post on Twitter.
one of the rules for 2nd apron is the apron team can’t aggregate ongoing salaries, ie can only send out a single player at a time.
Personally im really going to enjoy these new rules, I think teams that exceed the cap should be punished harshly- set their franchise back years instead of just money to a billionaire who doesn’t care.
That’s about to happen. Another good one is teams are over 2nd apron can’t trade their pick 7 yrs out, if over twice in 4 yrs have their 1st rd pick moved to last in the 1st rd (30th pick 6 yrs out).

This will also give teams that operate under the cap a great shot to get real value for taking on bad contracts.
In this light, think the Spurs are being very smart. Having cap space can get you a FA, a negative value player/contract + assets, or maybe a really good player that a team simply can’t afford to keep for various tax/penalty reasons.

There aren’t any better FAs than Lauri next year who will actually leave their teams. I’m in on Lauri, but it doesn’t have to be this year. I’d love to see Ainge’s salty tears as he’s trying to arrange sign and trades as Lauri is in San Antonio signing a deal next summer.

[Arguendo]

The Bucks are wild

25 FRP is headed to NOP or NYK
25 SRP is headed to CLE
26 FRP is swapped to NOP
26 SRP is going to ORL or BKN
27 FRP is going to NOP
27 SRP is going to PHI
28 FRP is swapped to POR
28 SRP is going to OKC
29 FRP is going to POR
29 SRP is going to DET
30 FRP is swapped to POR
30 SRP is going to ORL

They now have 31 FRP and SRP they can trade. But this is literally the most bare cupboard in the league - they have traded away every possible asset and have nothing incoming. It's wild.

Wild indeed, I was wondering if I was reading there pick list wrong. That's ridiculous and they're only movable assets are aging out and/or rentals + the franchise.
I'm so happy they hired Doc who will absolutely ensure that no young player gets a chance to develop before Giannis requests a trade

[barakz21]

Maaaaannnnnn it’s been real slow. Every time I refresh, I hope I get the dead hamster at least that way I’ll know something big happened for the Spurs. That was the same way figured we snagged a big name (granted, I hadn’t known yet that was someone ancient).

[DPG21920]

Am I missing something on the Donovan Mitchell deal? Why has he not signed? Im trying to find a reason that he wouldn’t have extended already

[tbdog]

Am I missing something on the Donovan Mitchell deal? Why has he not signed? Im trying to find a reason that he wouldn’t have extended already

I think he wants to see what the Cavs do.

[Mr. Body]

Am I missing something on the Donovan Mitchell deal? Why has he not signed? Im trying to find a reason that he wouldn’t have extended already

Working on a trade. He wants to go back to Utah.

[BacktoBasics]

The Bucks are wild

25 FRP is headed to NOP or NYK
25 SRP is headed to CLE
26 FRP is swapped to NOP
26 SRP is going to ORL or BKN
27 FRP is going to NOP
27 SRP is going to PHI
28 FRP is swapped to POR
28 SRP is going to OKC
29 FRP is going to POR
29 SRP is going to DET
30 FRP is swapped to POR
30 SRP is going to ORL

They now have 31 FRP and SRP they can trade. But this is literally the most bare cupboard in the league - they have traded away every possible asset and have nothing incoming. It's wild.

This is really a strong argument for us building through the draft rather than unloading for Lauri etc.

I think there’s a time and place to move capital. Knicks overpaid for Bridges but still have more in the cupboard. We’ll have to eventually make a move but I’m not sure today is that day.

[tbdog]

Shooting is such a big glaring need and it seems like they don’t care about it lol

I am concerned that spurs pick up Derozan for whatever is left in space. Although he'll bring more talent and playmaking, that's a lot of poor shooters. Unless the Spurs can trade Wesley and Jones for a shooter.

Heck, if the Spurs get Luari for like Johnson and shit load of picks, Derozan makes sense then.

Just very quiet now. Seems trades eals are getting discussed as fringe players are getting snapped up

[DPG21920]

I think he wants to see what the Cavs do.

What can they do lol - I guess a Garland trade and/or Allen? Are they a sneaky candidate for Lauri in that case?

[DPG21920]

I mean, what is Golden State going to do? What are the Bucks going to do? What is CLE going to do? LAC has signed some guys, but will it be enough?

So many teams have gone for it and bolstered their rosters and the teams above really need to do something and how many freaking guys are actually available that can move those teams forward?

[scott]

This is really a strong argument for us building through the draft rather than unloading for Lauri etc.

I think there’s a time and place to move capital. Knicks overpaid for Bridges but still have more in the cupboard. We’ll have to eventually make a move but I’m not sure today is that day.

To build through the draft, you actually have to make draft picks, not just trade them for other, future draft picks

[Pauleta14]

Kings already quit on Ainge's demands :lol

https://x.com/WireHoops/status/1807967627051954375

[Mr. Body]

A lot of teams are stuck in cap hell and a number of players want to get traded but won't.

[Seventyniner]

I mean, what is Golden State going to do? What are the Bucks going to do? What is CLE going to do? LAC has signed some guys, but will it be enough?

So many teams have gone for it and bolstered their rosters and the teams above really need to do something and how many freaking guys are actually available that can move those teams forward?

The new CBA has reared its ugly head. Teams fucked around and now they're finding out.

[tbdog]

What can they do lol - I guess a Garland trade and/or Allen? Are they a sneaky candidate for Lauri in that case?

Sure. Just depends what Jazz want to go. They don't necessary need to tear it down. They got heaps of picks already. But I am not sure if Allen makes sense with Kressler there, and Garland with George being there. The rumour was they were trying to trade for Young or Murray and then bring Paul George in to make the team. Since that fell through, it might just be picks. Warriors have Kuminga as their man player and picks.

I think the reason why free agency has died down here is because a few teams are negotiating with Jazz.

[Arguendo]

There aren’t any better FAs than Lauri next year who will actually leave their teams. I’m in on Lauri, but it doesn’t have to be this year. I’d love to see Ainge’s salty tears as he’s trying to arrange sign and trades as Lauri is in San Antonio signing a deal next summer.

I'm mostly with you FA is a total crapshoot/most guys will never actually hit the market, but I'm scared of Lauri's availability, only played over 80% of his games as a rook, 71% in career. This dude misses lots of games.
Maybe that's low bc Utah sat him but if I'm gonna pay a max contract, I want a reasonable expectation he's available to play at least 75% of games. Another year of evidence would help determine that.
I also think he's just an expiring for Utah= no reason to pay a huge premium right now.

I'm really interested in is Naz. Minny is gonna be pressed to trade either him or Conley before the end of the year. If they trade Conley, Ant or Dilly have to run basically all the point in the playoffs, that's not likely to get them back to the WCF.

Naz has a 25'-26' PO for $15M which he has to opt out off. Minny is $6.39M into the 2nd apron this year. Unless someone takes KAT, they trade Naz or Conley, they need two or 3 other salary dumps, which would have to include one or both of NAW or Dilly. If they don't get under, they lose access to the 2032 pick (no control of any first for 7 more years) and they are already over the 25'-26' 2nd apron (with Naz $15M next yr but without Dillys $7ish M). Not sure, but think 2 straight years in 2nd apron=hard card.

That Dilly trade may have put the Spurs in a great position to pick up Naz mid-yr and extend him, not cause the picks but cause the $6.3M 8th slot cap hit. I'd rather have Naz for $30M a yr than Lauri for $40. And Naz is over 2 years younger (I doubt he's peaked, where Lauri may well have), better timeline, better/much better defender, cost less assets, or if both are FAs, I'd rather have Naz at a lesser salary. Minny's cap is fucked and the ownership is in flux. That Dilly trade may prove to be the precursor to a masterpiece.

If Minny extends Naz, they'd have find a taker for KAT or Gobert or gut the rest of the team, including Dilly. Their best answer is to get assets for Naz while they can, likely the worst cap situation in the league.

[tbdog]

Lauri is vastly better than Reid. Lauri scores 10 more ppg and his % are pretty much the same. Having Reid would be nice. But the Spurs still will be looking for their number 2. Having Lauri, your main players are set. If Castle works out, you just need to find role players and a token big like Bassey that can survive 5 mins in a playoff game. The Spurs still will have draft assets to plug holes while maintaining the team. Lauri game should also stay relevant in his 30s.

[BacktoBasics]

To build through the draft, you actually have to make draft picks, not just trade them for other, future draft picks

You’ll get no argument for me on that.

But just for the sake of the discussion I get the logic. Let’s say they take Dilly. Maybe he pans out to the tune of 17ppg and decent creator at about the Vassell level of success. In all likelihood he’s not leading us to a a championship. You get to year 3 and he’s wanting an appropriate extension. You’re rounding out a playoff team and trying to push through to the next level. He’s not getting us there.

An unprotected 1st and pick swap is probably worth more in trade than a mildly successful Dilly wanting an extension.

But like I said, I’m not completely against your point. I would have drafted Dilly or maybe even Carter or Buzelus. I do understand the trade though. Dilly wasn’t gonna put us over the top and amassing capital pads the war chest.

[DPG21920]

Sure. Just depends what Jazz want to go. They don't necessary need to tear it down. They got heaps of picks already. But I am not sure if Allen makes sense with Kressler there, and Garland with George being there. The rumour was they were trying to trade for Young or Murray and then bring Paul George in to make the team. Since that fell through, it might just be picks. Warriors have Kuminga as their man player and picks.

I think the reason why free agency has died down here is because a few teams are negotiating with Jazz.

It wouldn’t have to be direct. Maybe its something like:

CLE Gets: Lauri

SA Gets: Garland

UTA Gets: whatever + picks

[R. DeMurre]

I'm happy for Derrick White, but his extension is more bad news for the 2028 pick swap the Spurs have with Boston. Tatum, Brown, and White will all be under contract when they'll be 30, 32, and 34. Of course, it's impossible to forecast injuries and other drama, but with those three secured there's a good chance they'll be a very good team. When the swap was originally made, none of them were extended that far out.

[Mr. Body]

I'd be stunned if the Spurs went for Garland at this point. The CP3 pick-up strongly signals they're happy with their guard corps and wants him to help guide who they have. If anything they might need to shed a player.

As for DeRozan, mentioned above, I'd also be surprised if they go for him. He doesn't seem to fit what they want to do now. Again, before CP3 that might have been different, where they needed a bucket-getter and initiator of offense and, while I like Vassell, that's not a strong suit. They don't need that player anymore because the offensive dynamic is much changed.

What they need is a range shooter/wing.

[DPG21920]

I'd be stunned if the Spurs went for Garland at this point. The CP3 pick-up strongly signals they're happy with their guard corps and wants him to help guide who they have. If anything they might need to shed a player.

As for DeRozan, mentioned above, I'd also be surprised if they go for him. He doesn't seem to fit what they want to do now. Again, before CP3 that might have been different, where they needed a bucket-getter and initiator of offense and, while I like Vassell, that's not a strong suit. They don't need that player anymore because the offensive dynamic is much changed.

What they need is a range shooter/wing.

Sure - I was using Spurs as a “stand in” for an example. Could take out Spurs, put in another team etc…

[R. DeMurre]

I'm mostly with you FA is a total crapshoot/most guys will never actually hit the market, but I'm scared of Lauri's availability, only played over 80% of his games as a rook, 71% in career. This dude misses lots of games.
Maybe that's low bc Utah sat him but if I'm gonna pay a max contract, I want a reasonable expectation he's available to play at least 75% of games. Another year of evidence would help determine that.
I also think he's just an expiring for Utah= no reason to pay a huge premium right now.



The injury history is an understandable concern, but I think you're right that Utah fudged those numbers quite a bit in the last 2 seasons with the same ploy that Pop did last year, i.e., sitting players with the ol' "abundance of caution" excuse.

[Arguendo]

Vastly? Really?
Does role matter? Does age/development matter?

Lauri 5th season 24 y/o 61G 30.8M 14.8P/5.7R/1.3A/0.7S/0.5B .445/.358/.868 Starter on a 44 win team that got better after he left
Naz 5th years 24 y/o 81G 24.2M 13.5P/5.2R/1.3A/0.8S/0.9B .477/.414/.736 Sixth man of the year on a 56 win team

I'm not making the case Naz is better, but its close. Did Lauri average almost 10 points playing almost 10 more minute/game than Naz? Yeah
But Lauri is the feature player on a mediocre team, Keldon averaged 22/per. Counting stating don't tell the whole tale. Their per 36 is a lot closer and Naz get a lot closer to Lauri's min if he's not behind KAT/Gobert and their monster contracts.
Role is important, I want championships. Naz plays in more games, is younger, is cheaper, and came up clutch time and again in this years POs as a 24 year old.
I think the Spurs window opens in about 3 years, I think Naz has a good chance to be a better player in 3 years than Lauri. I'm not confident, I like Lauri, but Lauri misses TONs of games (at all 3 stops, not just tanking UTA)

Lauri is not vastly better today, he's better--on offense--in a shining role. Naz may very well be better all-around today and he very well may be better next year and moving forward and is cheaper and plays a lot more games and plays 2-ways.

[tbdog]

Vastly? Really?
Does role matter? Does age/development matter?

Lauri 5th season 24 y/o 61G 30.8M 14.8P/5.7R/1.3A/0.7S/0.5B .445/.358/.868 Starter on a 44 win team that got better after he left
Naz 5th years 24 y/o 81G 24.2M 13.5P/5.2R/1.3A/0.8S/0.9B .477/.414/.736 Sixth man of the year on a 56 win team

I'm not making the case Naz is better, but its pretty close. Did Lauri average almost 10 points playing almost 10 more minute/game than Naz? Yeah
But Lauri is the feature player on a mediocre team, Keldon average 22/per. Counting stating don't tell the whole tale.
Role is important, I want championship. Naz plays in more games, is younger, is cheaper, and came up clutch time and again in this years POs as a 24 year old.
Lauri is not vastly better today, he's better--on offense--in a shining role. Naz may very well is better all-around today and he very well may be better next year and moving forward and is cheaper and plays a lot more games and plays 2-ways.

Bulls/Cavs Lauri and Jazz Lauri are not the same player. Lauri signed that extension with the Cavs I think, and he had a partial guarantee on the last year of his contract (this year.) His ppgs went up by 10 and he shot even better. I think Lauri being so good actually put the Jazz in a weird situation, where they couldn't bottom out by trading Gobert and Mitchell.

If Reid became the number one option, what would it look like? I think not good. So he plays a really good role for a good team now. I think Reid with Wemby would work really well and he will command a big contract in 2 seasons time. But, as I said, you trade for Reid, you are still looking at a number 2 player for the team. You trade for Lauri, you are looking for role players to fill out the roster.

[Arguendo]

For reference to Minny's cap & Naz making it to Free Agency, Ant, KAT, Ruby, and Jaden are locked in for $170.2M, if Naz were to resign there starting at $30M (which is prolly low considering Hartenstein got $29M), Minny would have 5 players at $200.2M, with a projected 2nd Apron of $209.2M. Dilly and Conley are both guaranteed and would put them about $10M over that apron with only 7 players and I think would be hard-capped just resigning Naz.

Minny has to make a trade this year, Naz is the easiest to move, blocked by literally $100M to KAT and Ruby, gets you the best value. Gonna be interesting to see what they do, they have to do something.

[scott]

I love Naz, but I don't think he and Lauri are all that comparable at all. Lauri is a legit #2, whereas I see Naz as more of that Derrick-white type of contributor... absolutely awesome and super valuable, but not going to be your #2 guy.

[TD 21]

I don't get the Lopez rumor. If true, either Wembanyama has made it clear he doesn't want to play C full time and/or they view it was a way to get off of Collins (even if it involves a third team) without giving up a relatively significant asset.


Did Beasley sign somewhere else? He'd put them way over the apron.

Haynes claimed the Spurs were interested yesterday.

It'd make no sense though considering the borderline logjam in the back court as is.

[Knoxxx]

Vastly? Really?
Does role matter? Does age/development matter?

Lauri 5th season 24 y/o 61G 30.8M 14.8P/5.7R/1.3A/0.7S/0.5B .445/.358/.868 Starter on a 44 win team that got better after he left
Naz 5th years 24 y/o 81G 24.2M 13.5P/5.2R/1.3A/0.8S/0.9B .477/.414/.736 Sixth man of the year on a 56 win team

I'm not making the case Naz is better, but its close. Did Lauri average almost 10 points playing almost 10 more minute/game than Naz? Yeah
But Lauri is the feature player on a mediocre team, Keldon averaged 22/per. Counting stating don't tell the whole tale. Their per 36 is a lot closer and Naz get a lot closer to Lauri's min if he's not behind KAT/Gobert and their monster contracts.
Role is important, I want championships. Naz plays in more games, is younger, is cheaper, and came up clutch time and again in this years POs as a 24 year old.
I think the Spurs window opens in about 3 years, I think Naz has a good chance to be a better player in 3 years than Lauri. I'm not confident, I like Lauri, but Lauri misses TONs of games (at all 3 stops, not just tanking UTA)

Lauri is not vastly better today, he's better--on offense--in a shining role. Naz may very well be better all-around today and he very well may be better next year and moving forward and is cheaper and plays a lot more games and plays 2-ways.

You are vastly over explaining your man crush on Naz Reid.

[LeBowen]

For reference to Minny's cap & Naz making it to Free Agency, Ant, KAT, Ruby, and Jaden are locked in for $170.2M, if Naz were to resign there starting at $30M (which is prolly low considering Hartenstein got $29M), Minny would have 5 players at $200.2M, with a projected 2nd Apron of $209.2M. Dilly and Conley are both guaranteed and would put them about $10M over that apron with only 7 players and I think would be hard-capped just resigning Naz.

Minny has to make a trade this year, Naz is the easiest to move, blocked by literally $100M to KAT and Ruby, gets you the best value. Gonna be interesting to see what they do, they have to do something.

They're going to run it back this season and then trade McDaniels, KAT or Gobert to extend and keep Naz.
Giving them back those picks for McDaniels in a year isn't an impossible scenario.

[Notorious H.O.P.]

The Bucks are wild

25 FRP is headed to NOP or NYK
25 SRP is headed to CLE
26 FRP is swapped to NOP
26 SRP is going to ORL or BKN
27 FRP is going to NOP
27 SRP is going to PHI
28 FRP is swapped to POR
28 SRP is going to OKC
29 FRP is going to POR
29 SRP is going to DET
30 FRP is swapped to POR
30 SRP is going to ORL

They now have 31 FRP and SRP they can trade. But this is literally the most bare cupboard in the league - they have traded away every possible asset and have nothing incoming. It's wild.

Since we're so interested in far off draft picks, I wonder if the Bucks would trade their 2031 1st for multiple seconds. The Spurs could offer four or five and give the Bucks a chance for cheap talent each year with one pick in each of 25, 26, 27, 28 and maybe 29.

[scott]

Since we're so interested in far off draft picks, I wonder if the Bucks would trade their 2031 1st for multiple seconds. The Spurs could offer four or five and give the Bucks a chance for cheap talent each year with one pick in each of 25, 26, 27, 28 and maybe 29.

Now this is an idea I can really get behind.

[Arguendo]

Bulls/Cavs Lauri and Jazz Lauri are not the same player. Lauri signed that extension with the Cavs I think, and he had a partial guarantee on the last year of his contract (this year.) His ppgs went up by 10 and he shot even better. I think Lauri being so good actually put the Jazz in a weird situation, where they couldn't bottom out by trading Gobert and Mitchell.

If Reid became the number one option, what would it look like? I think not good. So he plays a really good role for a good team now. I think Reid with Wemby would work really well and he will command a big contract in 2 seasons time. But, as I said, you trade for Reid, you are still looking at a number 2 player for the team. You trade for Lauri, you are looking for role players to fill out the roster.

I think I agree with all of this. But I'm not looking for a #1 guy, that guy just had a top 5 rookie season ever. He is already a defensive force. Lean into that. Defensive, spacing, shooting. Naz does all that really well. Lauri does 2 of those maybe better, and one of them far worse.

I want great complementary pieces who fits really well with Wemby, part of that is helping Wemby on D. And I do not think Naz has had his chance to shine.

KAT was a number 1, put up huge stats, made Allstar teams, I'd rather have Naz at the same money, no exaggeration. I'm cool having Wemby surrounded by high-end role players and until a real 1B comes available-maybe draft, maybe FA, maybe trade- to me maxes should only go to real 1As and 1Bs, think thats gonna prove out under the new CBA. 1 and 2 time All-Stars are often very bad value, great role players that often play at or near that same All-Star level are often great value with lesser counting stats.
I think Naz would get much better next to Wemby and I think he'll get better as a 24 y/o thats still developing.

I am not saying your at all wrong, just Championship window is big here for me. Naz fits that much better imo and has already proven himself in the POs. Plus, defense is undervalued in contracts.

But I take your points, Lauri definitely has more creation ability, ability to step-up on his own, take over a game if/when needed. I really like him but with the new CBA rules, I'm terrified of giving a borderline All-Star who misses 30% of games over 7 seasons max money. If Lauri plays 70-75 games this year, a lot of my fears are alleviated. Injuries can always happen, but the best indicator is prolly lots of missed games. Thats a huge marked against Lauri and I don't see him as a high-end #2 unless he's showing up 80% of the time.

[Arguendo]

I love Naz, but I don't think he and Lauri are all that comparable at all. Lauri is a legit #2, whereas I see Naz as more of that Derrick-white type of contributor... absolutely awesome and super valuable, but not going to be your #2 guy.
Yeah, I'm not trying to make the case Naz is a #2, just that he may be much better value either (trade or FA). But if Minny moves McDaniels, keeps Reid, this is moot (but that fucks their SL).

And that I think Lauri is very likely an expiring for UTA, so much cheaper mid-season. I do think if Lauri improves his D a bit (likely when not shouldering a whole O) and plays more games, he's a great fit and a difference maker.

[Ice009]

Celtics handing out huge contracts like crazy and ownership is looking to sell the team so someone else has to pick up the check.

Is this true? Right after winning the Championship they're looking to sell, or were they already looking to beforehand?


Light years ahead :lol

Who was the quote by? Was it former GM (Bob Myers?)?

[RC_Drunkford]

Is this true? Right after winning the Championship they're looking to sell, or were they already looking to beforehand?



Who was the quote by? Was it former GM (Bob Myers?)?

no the team owner Joe Lacob

[CGD]

The Bucks are wild

25 FRP is headed to NOP or NYK
25 SRP is headed to CLE
26 FRP is swapped to NOP
26 SRP is going to ORL or BKN
27 FRP is going to NOP
27 SRP is going to PHI
28 FRP is swapped to POR
28 SRP is going to OKC
29 FRP is going to POR
29 SRP is going to DET
30 FRP is swapped to POR
30 SRP is going to ORL

They now have 31 FRP and SRP they can trade. But this is literally the most bare cupboard in the league - they have traded away every possible asset and have nothing incoming. It's wild.

That is wild. The only thing crazier is that OKC has only managed to have one of their picks lol.

[Ice009]

no the team owner Joe Lacob

Oh, right, thanks. Glad it wasn't Bob Myers as I like the guy.

Man, just saw that MIL draft pick list. What the heck are they going to do to get talent around Giannis? What if he asks out? They're going to ask for a bounty for him looking at how depleted they are draft pick wise, or do you think if they trade both Giannis and Lillard, they'll get quite a few of those first rounders back?
Won't likely be as good as their own picks, though. Wow, they're in a bad spot.

[mudyez]

Thats exactely why I like us stockpiling assets like the Minnesota stuff or the Dallas swap.
Once we are in contention (and we somehow will even with giving up some stuff), having some assets to retool and enhance will really help and prevents us from having a frustrated Wemby or just to be not one of these teams that will be eaten up by the disease of more after winning one ship.

[Ariel]

Since we're so interested in far off draft picks, I wonder if the Bucks would trade their 2031 1st for multiple seconds. The Spurs could offer four or five and give the Bucks a chance for cheap talent each year with one pick in each of 25, 26, 27, 28 and maybe 29.
Probably not their '31 FRP outright, because that would hurt their chances of moving their '32 FRP next year per the Stepien rule. However, there's a way to suck most of the value of that pick and still leave them with the possibility to trade their '32 pick: get swap rights instead. Spurs own 2 '31 FRPs: their own + Minnesota's. You can offer Milwaukee to keep the worst of the three while the Spurs keep the best two (among Spurs' own, Minnesota's and Milwaukee's). That way Milwaukee is guaranteed to keep a pick which allows them to trade their '32 if they need to do so at a later time. Since Spurs paid 3 SRPs in the Grant Williams/Reggie Bullock trade to get that '30 swap with Dallas, I'd say 4 SRPs would be in the ballpark of what would be required.

There is, however, a caveat: lumping assets together may improve their outlook in a vacuum but also takes away some flexibility, if you're going to use them via trades or if you project Spurs by then should resort to SRPs to fill their roster like many contenders are doing nowadays (like Denver, for instance). So it's a sensible path, but it depends on what's the team's strategy going forward. Something to consider nonetheless.

[Mr. Body]

A lot of these teams like Denver, Milwaukee, Dallas, with great single players have leveraged nearly everything they have. I'm not sure this is what the league wants, but it'll force them to eventually trade out those stars. Actually, just realized that's what they want. Never mind.

[exstatic]

Oh, and why would Markkanen resign with Utah? They've not come close to wanting to win games and that's not going to change.

That’s the point a lot of people are missing about Utah and any potential GS trade. Markannen’s window of interest is five years. Utah sucks for the first half of it,and GS sucks for the last half.

[LeBowen]

A lot of these teams like Denver, Milwaukee, Dallas, with great single players have leveraged nearly everything they have. I'm not sure this is what the league wants, but it'll force them to eventually trade out those stars. Actually, just realized that's what they want. Never mind.

Yeah, Jokic has really been leveraging Denver over the past years and is surely about to ask for a trade.

It's just amazing how bad some of your takes are and yet you post them with such confidence.

[exstatic]

Damn, one of these days we’ll hear why things got so toxic between Klay and the Warriors organization. Sounds like the cuts were deep.

I think he’s a bitter little bitch who overplayed his hand and ended up with less. That 3rd year in Dallas, he’s essentially playing for $2M, in the context of GS’s 2/$48m offer.

It’s a business, and should be treated as such. You intake GS’s offer, and field other offers. Take the best one.

[FireMicoHalili]

it's so funny LeBron hinted a paycut for another star and the big fish were like 'nah'. Also no one wants to be within five feet of that choker D'Angelo Russell loooool I love this offseason.

[CGD]

I think he’s a bitter little bitch who overplayed his hand and ended up with less. That 3rd year in Dallas, he’s essentially playing for $2M, in the context of GS’s 2/$48m offer.

It’s a business, and should be treated as such. You intake GS’s offer, and field other offers. Take the best one.

That’s why I think it had nothing to do with the money, but that he felt slighted by the team. At some level I get it too: you’re a good soldier, no drama, and are indispensable to the success of the team’s runs, but when it’s time to reward you the organization prioritizes the loud fucktard and overrated young upstart.

Millionaire problems…

[The Truth #6]

I thought GS gave Klay a nice contract right after he was severely injured? Probably akot of factors for his bitterness, starting with he is not as good as he used to be.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1808122802538795238

[Mitch Cumsteen]

I don't get the Lopez rumor. If true, either Wembanyama has made it clear he doesn't want to play C full time and/or they view it was a way to get off of Collins (even if it involves a third team) without giving up a relatively significant asset.


What’s not to understand? Lopez can help this team. The Spurs need a big for matchups with other true bigs (Jokic, Gobert, etc.). They also need outside shooting. They also need veteran leadership. It would also be fantastic to get off the Collins deal. I don’t know if Lopez and Vic even play that much together, but Lopez being a true stretch five makes it a lot more plausible than a horribly inconsistent Collins who also gets manhandled in the paint. Lopez certainly hasn’t clogged up the floor for Giannis. But the best part is that if it doesn’t work out they can move Lopez to a contender at the deadline and get more assets. It’s a no brainer.

[Mr. Body]

it's so funny LeBron hinted a paycut for another star and the big fish were like 'nah'. Also no one wants to be within five feet of that choker D'Angelo Russell loooool I love this offseason.

Badly managed franchise that can't even make the playoffs with LeBron James and supposed top 75 player of all time Anthony Davis still in his prime. It's great to see.

[exstatic]

What can they do lol - I guess a Garland trade and/or Allen? Are they a sneaky candidate for Lauri in that case?

:lol. They’re the ones that traded Lauri to Utah in the first place. Doubt either side wants a reunion.

[CGD]

What’s not to understand? Lopez can help this team. The Spurs need a big for matchups with other true bigs (Jokic, Gobert, etc.). They also need outside shooting. They also need veteran leadership. It would also be fantastic to get off the Collins deal. I don’t know if Lopez and Vic even play that much together, but Lopez being a true stretch five makes it a lot more plausible than a horribly inconsistent Collins who also gets manhandled in the paint. Lopez certainly hasn’t clogged up the floor for Giannis. But the best part is that if it doesn’t work out they can move Lopez to a contender at the deadline and get more assets. It’s a no brainer.

Winner winner chicken dinner. I think it makes a ton of sense personally from both an on and off court fit perspective. Like CP3, Brooks brings that veteran moxie (plus he has won a chip). The debate is who should add an asset in such a deal, Spurs or Bucks? But straight up is fair given the Bucks’ financial challenges.

Not sure how these deals get structured with the new cap/apron stuff, but the Spurs could also agree to do a separate deal with MIL to eat the Portis money, obviously in exchange for a pick.

[CGD]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1808122802538795238

I still like Garland for the Spurs long term, but I think that opportunity is on pause for a year now with the Atkinson hire. They’ll try the 2 guard thing again, and when it fails (again) in a year Spurs should be ready to make a move.

[cjw]

Thats exactely why I like us stockpiling assets like the Minnesota stuff or the Dallas swap.
Once we are in contention (and we somehow will even with giving up some stuff), having some assets to retool and enhance will really help and prevents us from having a frustrated Wemby or just to be not one of these teams that will be eaten up by the disease of more after winning one ship.

This is exactly my reasoning. The eighth pick in a bad draft could have helped Wemby more in the short-term, but might have actually hurt in the long-run if he got an extension and impacted future financial flexibility and wasn’t a bonafide star. The future asset can either be used in a trade or to bring in a cheap rotation piece when Wemby is in his mid/late-20s. Contending teams need ways to bring in young talent, and most have dry cupboards as many here have mentioned.

Plus CP3 would have eaten into almost all of the space had the pick been made. Now the team still has space to add more a vet this year, which is more important to developing the pieces they have.

[exstatic]

That’s why I think it had nothing to do with the money, but that he felt slighted by the team. At some level I get it too: you’re a good soldier, no drama, and are indispensable to the success of the team’s runs, but when it’s time to reward you the organization prioritizes the loud fucktard and overrated young upstart.

Millionaire problems…
That’s apparently not true, according to recent post trade leaks. High drama is more like it, just not visible like Dray’s.

[LeBowen]

With Mitchell finally signing an extension, Cavs probably get rid of Garland and Allen, replace them with wings.

Ingram for Allen+ could work, even though NOLA is looking for a stretch big.

Garland to Magic makes sense. With KCP, Suggs and Gary Harris Magic has too many guards that can't playmake. Mitchell would prefer a defensive stopper to play with.
Other than that I guess Garland for Cam Johnson, DFS and a couple of picks works.

There's going to be a massive chasm between good and bad teams in the East.

[daslicer]

It’s nice seeing them humbled, they had no problem flexing themselves when they were invincible and the moment they go through adversity that they can’t blame on injuries, they melt down and break apart. Can’t go to their clutch of having the commissioner in their back pocket to bail them out anymore. Well deserved, tbh.

Agreed 100 percent they were always front runners and were fortunate to always get crucial injury breaks from their opponents ala Zaza taking out Kawhi, and then Chris Paul tearing his hamstring when they were down 3-2 in '18. They showed their true colors the last few years when the deck wasn't stacked in their favor and have suffered a meltdown.

I'll never forget the struggle the Spurs had from '07-'14 to climb back as a champion. I always view those years as the wilderness years of the big 3's careers but unlike the Warriors big 3 they didn't pout and meltdown when things didn't go their way during that span and just kept on plugging away to get their status back.