2024 NBA Off-Season Thread (FA, Trades, Extensions, Rumors)

[spurraider21]

Damn pushing the guarantee date for Graham back signals some stuff cooking in SA

That's a sweet $10MM off coupon for some team. If I was a GM I'd desire that.
Not how it works. If the spurs have to send 12 million to match theyd first have to guarantee grahams deal (at least up to whatever amount they need to match)

[heyheymymy]

One year of graham at 12 mil seems low value

[exstatic]

One year of graham at 12 mil seems low value

Salary filler/match. I don’t think anyone wants him at face value.

[DPG21920]

Ya - using Graham isn’t about the loophole; its about instead of just having 2.5M on the books by waiving him (not a big deal at all) you can actually use him as decent ballast in a deal in various ways to help team (either add a player in trade or get an asset by taking on a worse deal if you have no plans for cap space and that player is useful like THJ to DET etc..)

[Dverde]

11088532 (tel:11088532)[/URL]]Wasnt expected to return yesterday but picked up his option the next day :lol guess he found out there's no market for him

Yup, some team changed their mind :lol

[Chinook]

I've mentioned this, but basically, if the Spurs plan to dump Graham's guarantee, they would've had a much harder time finding a taker without Devonte agreeing to change his guarantee date. The new floor rules mean teams weren't able to carry significant cap space into the season, so the only teams that could take him now without having to send back salary are those with big TEs like ATL. Come 07/01, teams like Detroit and Utah will have cap space again and can take him. But that's after the previous guarantee date. Graham agreeing to the change is on its face a solid he's doing the Spurs. Usually that "solid" is paid by increasing the guaranteed portion, but I haven't seen anything that says that happened. Assuming it didn't, that suggests either Graham and/or his agent is just a good dude or that they believe Graham's contract might have a legit chance of being guaranteed, whether by the Spurs or another team.

IF the Spurs are serious about adding actual vets to their rotation, Plan A should be to stay over the cap and use trades and the MLE/LLE if possible. Graham alone can be used to bring in a $20-Million player. That's powerful for a guy whom the team might cut anyway. And if you add Bassey or Champangie, you get the salary you need to bring in Hunter, Cam Johnson or another player in that range. I'd say the Spurs currently have two PGs, one SG, one SF, one PF and two centers in their rotation right now. You could, for example, use the trade to grab the SF, the MLE to grab the guard and then re-sign Osman or Mamu to fill the PF spot and restore the rotation. While this route is feasible, I would rate it unlikely considering the (capillaries bursting) trade during the draft. They seem to be aiming for cap space right now.

As far as avoiding having second-round salary on their books, I'm not sure about that. We were told last year that the new second-round exceptions/holds don't kick in at the start of the off-season so that teams could use their cap space first before signing the players. That seems broken, but it would make sense to allow teams the option to use the MLE to sign the players as they would've been able to do previously without jeopardizing their cap space. However, I don't know WHEN the holds kick in. If this is a case where the Spurs could've kept 35 with good timing, them dumping it is still stupid. However, if the holds now go on the books as soon as the summer starts, the Spurs might have needed to be able to quickly dispel the cap hold if they're choosing to go that route. A key indicator could be how quickly Ingram signs a two-way deal -- assuming he doesn't sign a regular deal. If he signs (actually signs, not just "agrees to") one immediately, then that indicates the Spurs are trying to get rid of the hold. If he lingers or signs a real full deal, it suggests the Spurs either didn't really care or that they specifically accounted for one second-round contract but not two, ala last year promsing Cissoko but not taking him with their first second-rounder.

[heyheymymy]

wondering if SA just asks Graham, which do you choose: you could be cut today, or agree to delay the guarantee and have another week or so to potentially still become part of a deal and get fully guaranteed. Graham only risks not being on the market those days right? Which he may have calculated is irrelevant based on his poor demand.

[heyheymymy]

Good post Chinnook; all re: Graham and contract nuances

thanks for the info thoughts and clarifications

[CGD]

^ of on now, Graham is about to be out of the league. Of course he extends the timeline. There is zero other path for him to make that extra 9M in one year anywhere else. He’s rooting for the Spurs to use him in a trade to secure that $$.

The more interesting story is that the Spurs want to keep the optionality. My understanding is that they could do a 1 for 1 trade and take back 125% above his contracts value, so just shy of 16M.

[kobyz]

Saddiq Bay, i would like if we sign him to a 3 years deal less than his market value before his injury with team option for year 2 and 3, it's opportunity getting a bargain

[Ariel]

Saddiq Bay, i would like if we sign him to a 3 years deal less than his market value before his injury with team option for year 2 and 3, it's opportunity getting a bargain
He's been inefficient and underwhelming his whole career, had high salary expectations before getting traded from Detroit, and now comes off an ACL injury. He wasn't a bargain even before he got injured, now I wouldn't touch him with a 10 ft pole

[Chinook]

^ of on now, Graham is about to be out of the league. Of course he extends the timeline. There is zero other path for him to make that extra 9M in one year anywhere else. He’s rooting for the Spurs to use him in a trade to secure that $$.

The more interesting story is that the Spurs want to keep the optionality. My understanding is that they could do a 1 for 1 trade and take back 125% above his contracts value, so just shy of 16M.

The Spurs get to add $7.5 Million to outgoing salary because they're under the tax. They can take back just over $20 Million.

[CGD]

The Spurs get to add $7.5 Million to outgoing salary because they're under the tax. They can take back just over $20 Million.

That’s pretty damn good. For example, that’s right around the Brook Lopez and Deandre Hunter figures, which Milwaukee and Atlanta are trying to shed respectively.

Can Grahams salary be aggregated?

[Chinook]

That’s pretty damn good. For example, that’s right around the Brook Lopez and Deandre Hunter figures, which Milwaukee and Atlanta are trying to shed respectively.

Can Grahams salary be aggregated?

Yes, but the $7.5 Million is on top of the aggregated salaries rather than increasing like it would if it were a percentage.

[DPG21920]

He’s restricted, but with Holland, Ausar and maybe Tobias Harris I would like to see SA offer Simone Fontecchio a deal

[KingKev]

He's been inefficient and underwhelming his whole career, had high salary expectations before getting traded from Detroit, and now comes off an ACL injury. He wasn't a bargain even before he got injured, now I wouldn't touch him with a 10 ft pole

I din’t disagree. Basically a bigger Devin Vassell who can D up.

[venitian navigator]

He’s restricted, but with Holland, Ausar and maybe Tobias Harris I would like to see SA offer Simone Fontecchio a deal

Not a bad idea at all...

[Gandalf]

Saddiq Bay, i would like if we sign him to a 3 years deal less than his market value before his injury with team option for year 2 and 3, it's opportunity getting a bargain

I don’t know anything about Bey, but a post that received a lot of likes / laughs on a Hawk forum said that ‘Bey couldn’t defend a cheeseburger from a vegetarian.’

[Dverde]

That’s pretty damn good. For example, that’s right around the Brook Lopez and Deandre Hunter figures, which Milwaukee and Atlanta are trying to shed respectively.

Can Grahams salary be aggregated?

:hungry: Fresh 2030’s draft picks on the plate.

[RC_Drunkford]

The Spurs get to add $7.5 Million to outgoing salary because they're under the tax. They can take back just over $20 Million.

basically find a team that needs a trade exception and that's who we are trying to make a deal with. Bucks and Heat come to my mind and probably a couple of other contenders.
'

[Chinook]

So back to second-round picks. I was able to find this: https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/07/hoops-rumors-glossary-second-round-pick-exception.html


Players who are signed using the second-round pick exception won’t count against a team’s cap between July 1 and July 30 of their first season. That will allow teams to preserve all the cap room they need until July 31 without having to worry about their second-rounders cutting into it. And it will position those players to sign their first NBA contracts before taking part in Summer League games.
The introduction of the second-round exception doesn’t mean that teams must use it to sign their second-round picks. They’re still permitted to use cap room or another exception to negotiate deals with those players. That would be necessary in situations where the player has the leverage to command a salary greater than the two-year veteran’s minimum.

From what I am seeing, the Spurs had no cap-related reason to not use their second-round picks on players who will be on the regular roster UNLESS a player is unwilling to take a "second-round exception" contract, which looks like this:


Three-year deal

The first year can be worth up to the minimum salary for a player with one year of NBA experience.
The second and third years are worth the second- and third-year minimum salaries for a rookie.
The third year is a team option.

As our chart of minimum salaries (https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2023/07/nba-minimum-salaries-for-2023-24.html) shows, in 2023/24, the maximum three-year salary for a contract with this structure would be about $5.9MM. Here’s the year-by-year breakdown (option year in italics):


Year
Salary


2023/24
$1,801,769


2024/25
$1,891,857


2025/26
$2,221,677


Total
$5,915,303


Four-year deal


The first year can be worth up to the minimum salary for a player with two years of NBA experience.
The second year can be worth up to the second-year minimum salary for a player with one year of experience.
The third and fourth years are worth the third- and fourth-year minimum salaries for a rookie.
The fourth year is a team option.

In 2023/24, the maximum four-year salary for a contract with this structure would be nearly $8.8MM. Here’s what it looks like from year to year (option year in italics):


Year
Salary


2023/24
$2,019,706


2024/25
$2,120,693


2025/26
$2,221,677


2026/27
$2,406,205


Total
$8,768,281


In any deal that uses this four-year contract structure, the salary increase or decrease between the first and second season can’t exceed 5%. For instance, a team wouldn’t be permitted to negotiate a contract that starts at the rookie minimum ($1,119,563) and jumps to $2,120,693 in year two.

So either the Furphy and anyone the Spurs liked more than Nunez (if any) was unwilling to commit to a one of those contracts, or the Spurs legit wanted to avoid making the pick for roster-spot reasons rather than financial. That would be pretty concerning for me, because enough those the Spurs may have cap space to bring in vets, the space shouldn't be enough to bring in more than one or two guys, and the Spurs should have more holes than that on the roster.

Jones, Castle, Wesley
Vassell, Branham, Champangie
Johnson, Cissoko
Sochan, Ingram
Wembanyama, Collins, Bassey

That 13 guys IF Ingram gets a regular roster spot. There is still room to bring in a starting SF and rotational PF and potentially one more guy if Ingram moves to a two-way. To me, though, given that the Spurs have to bring in 21 guys for camp anyway, the lack of anyone who can threaten Wesley, Branham, Champangie, Cissoko, Ingram or Bassey would be frustrating. What's the point in being a bad team if you're going to gatekeep potential gems-in-the-rough from revealing themselves?

[ace3g]

https://x.com/RealGM/status/1807126995601392103

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1807105965126553758

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Suns advancing towards the third apron.

[Mr. Body]

Suns advancing towards the third apron.

At least they're advancing to the third of something.

[Spurs Homer]

They gave Vassell a dump truck of money based on potential. It’s 2024 NBA and top 60 players get 200M deals. Just imagine how much Trae’s next deal could be. That number scares me more as he is not a two way player.

how much is coming out of YOUR pocket?

[mo7888]

PG13 declined his option

Might be nothing for us... but who knows...

[Robz4000]

In b4 Paul George

[Mr. Body]

PG13 declined his option

Might be nothing for us... but who knows...

I believe that puts him out of the running for a lot of contending teams.

[RC_Drunkford]

I wouldn't mind signing Paul George, but he's probably just putting pressure on the Clippers to give him the max

[r0drig0lac]

PG...interesting

[mo7888]

I believe that puts him out of the running for a lot of contending teams.

Yup...there's only four or 5 counting us left I believe.. curious as to what he's thinking..

[mo7888]

I wouldn't mind signing Paul George, but he's probably just putting pressure on the Clippers to give him the max

Does it give him more leverage there with only a few teams left instead of having the S&T option?

[Mr. Body]

Forgot Sixers have the space to offer him, yeah? That'd shift things a lot.

[TD 21]

He's been inefficient and underwhelming his whole career, had high salary expectations before getting traded from Detroit, and now comes off an ACL injury. He wasn't a bargain even before he got injured, now I wouldn't touch him with a 10 ft pole

I'm fairly certain he was their second choice to Vassell in '20, but he's basically a higher profile/pedigree, more expensive, somewhat delusional version of Champagnie.

Since it make no sense to go the Collins route with him, it shouldn't be ruled out.



Jones, Castle, Wesley
Vassell, Branham, Champangie
Johnson, Cissoko
Sochan, Ingram
Wembanyama, Collins, Bassey

Sochan, Osman (UFA), Mamukelashvili (RFA), Ingram, Cissoko, Gray (TW)
Champagnie, Johnson
Wembanyama, Collins, Bassey (NG), Barlow (RFA)
Vassell, Branham, Duke Jr. (RFA)
Jones, Castle, Wesley, Graham (PG), Bouyea (TW)

[Mr. Body]

What we can't happen is LAC sucking and OKC getting their unprotected pick next year.

[Chinook]

George may not have trusted the Clippers to trade him if he opted in. Though it's been reported his adamant about getting a four-year deal, and couldn't do that off an extend-and-trade deal.

One thing to note is if the Clippers receive any salary back from a potential sign-and-trade, they are hard-capped at the second apron. Maybe that's not a huge deal with PG off the books and Harden a free agent. Since Keith is stupid-fast with his updates, it looks like LAC has $61 Million to play with 10 players under contract and not counting whatever players they drafted. If Harden signs the max, he'll basically take up all that. He probably will take less, but will he take so much less that the Clippers can take back meaningful salary? I don't think so. But if George walks and Harden goes elsewhere, what do the Clippers do? They have Kawhi and nothing else.

What this means for the Spurs is that if they want PG, they might have to make cap space for him or find other teams to take salary (which basically the same thing). I've said before they're about a Johnson, Graham and Branham away from a max slot. People's pet trade of sending Keldon to Detroit seems off the table with them drafting another forward. The Magic might want him, but I wouldn't count on it given the strength of their front court already.

With this opt-out decision, I don't know if there's a reasonable path for the Spurs to acquire George, and the same issues exist for most other teams. The restriction to receive a player if you're S&Ting a guy a way is in the second apron, but first-apron teams cannot receive a signed-and-traded player. That's fine for the Spurs, if their goal is to receive George (besides the issues I've outlined), but it's not fine for the potential of them being a third team in a deal where they get compensated for helping a capless team make ends meet.

[Pauleta14]

I had to come on ST when I saw PG13 decelined his option... :lol

Do you guys think it's realistic?

He'd have to change is game and lower his averages, but who knows maybe last big deal means he wouldn't care much?

[lefty20]

Def would prefer for PG-13 to re-sign with the Clips. Don't want OKC getting a top pick in next years draft.

[RC_Drunkford]

Does it give him more leverage there with only a few teams left instead of having the S&T option?

of course since he wants a 4-year deal and not a one year opt in

[Degoat]

What’s funny and it shows money talks… 76ers are probably the favorites to sign PG13 even after they just screwed PG13 teammate James Harden by not paying him whatever contract Harden thought/promised that Morey would offer.

[Mr. Body]

The Clippers will pay him. This is him posturing to get what he can out of them. He wants to stay on the West Coast.

[Dverde]

how much is coming out of YOUR pocket?

My point is the Spurs didn’t clutch their pearls when it came to opening their wallet to Vassell. They should be open to paying the Robin aka #2 option 50 million dollars, it’s just how the NBA is nowadays.

[Chinook]

George's APY is going to be twice that of Vassell's. Folks need to stop thinking that Devin got some huge deal.

[Dverde]

The Clippers will pay him. This is him posturing to get what he can out of them. He wants to stay on the West Coast.

I agree…he cares more about LA and podcasting than winning. Nephew is there to take the hit when they fail again.

[Dverde]

George's APY is going to be twice that of Vassell's. Folks need to stop thinking that Devin got some huge deal.

It is the largest contract ever given out for the franchise. I don’t dislike it, but others need to recognize these players are going to make a lot more money than before.

[mo7888]

of course since he wants a 4-year deal and not a one year opt in

But they could have already agreed to that...

[DPG21920]

Collins to det for cha first should be enough both for det and PG if PG wanted to be here

[scott]

It will be Philly or LAC for PG13. Honestly kind of hope it's Philly because that will be a fun team in the short term (like 1-2 years, a 3max player construction surely can't work for long).

Zero chance a guy like PG13 comes to a team like San Antonio, who is actively avoiding taking opportunities to add talent to its team. PG13 ain't going to failing rebuilding projects.

[Chinook]

Collins to det for cha first should be enough both for det and PG if PG wanted to be here

It's actually pretty short, and I don't think CHA25 is close to enough to take Collins into cap space.

[DPG21920]

It's actually pretty short, and I don't think CHA25 is close to enough to take Collins into cap space.

Det took 3 2nds for THJ and gave up a player in return that has value to do it. I think it’s fair considering Zach likely has on value to teams still and it’s a shot at a first.

But how is 26+15M short on PG?

[Chinook]

Det took 3 2nds for THJ and gave up a player in return that has value to do it. I think it’s fair considering Zach likely has on value to teams still and it’s a shot at a first.

But how is 26+15M short on PG?

Three seconds to take one year versus two seconds to take two years.

And 41 is way short of 50

[scott]

Det took 3 2nds for THJ and gave up a player in return that has value to do it. I think it’s fair considering Zach likely has on value to teams still and it’s a shot at a first.

But how is 26+15M short on PG?

THJ only has one year left (Collins has two) at a slightly less AAV, and THJ is probably a more useful player than Collins.

Also think PG13 will command more than $40mm/yr

[DPG21920]

Three seconds to take one year versus two seconds to take two years.

And 41 is way short of 50

They gave up a good player in Grimes in that deal so they wouldn’t be doing that here. And there’s at least a chance this one is pick 15+ vs just seconds.

Yes if you think another team actually gives him 50 then for sure. Of course that can happen but I do wonder his market especially if even lac doesn’t want him at that price.

[ace3g]

Shams Charania ShamsCharania
·
4m
Wizards center Richaun Holmes has declined his $12.8 million player option in order to sign a new two-year, $25.9 million deal with the team through 2025-26 season, sources tell
@TheAthletic

@Stadium
. Only $250,000 out of $13.3M is guaranteed for 2025-26

[Degoat]

By the time free agency starts there’s going to be nobody available lol

[poopbox]

George's APY is going to be twice that of Vassell's. Folks need to stop thinking that Devin got some huge deal.

George is also a much better player and much more accomplished than Devin. He probably goes into all his FA meetings showing them Devin's career and says "this guy has never even played on a team that won 40 games, i'm diffiently making at least twice as much as he is."

[RC_Drunkford]

fuck Bol Bol is off the table...

[PhantomDashCam]

1807103794414502269

1807103227197800523

Not interested in Kuzma tbh but Kispert is the guy that would fit this team like a glove.

1782427892586102788

[spurraider21]

Kispert was killing us for a decent stretch of the game in Washington last year

[ace3g]

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
ESPN Sources: Paul George is planning to take free agent meetings with the Los Angeles Clippers, Philadelphia 76ers and Orlando Magic beginning late Sunday night and Monday on the West Coast.

[MackAttack003]

I don’t know anything about Bey, but a post that received a lot of likes / laughs on a Hawk forum said that ‘Bey couldn’t defend a cheeseburger from a vegetarian.’
I see why it got a lot of laughs.

[scott]

I'd pay more for Kispert than I would for Kuzma, tbqh

[Ariel]

fuck Bol Bol is off the table...
Damn, there goes the original Wemby... :cry I don't know that I can take another heartbreak like this :depressed

[ace3g]

Michael Scotto MikeAScotto
·
2h
Sources: Miami Heat swingman Caleb Martin is declining his $7.12 million player option and will enter unrestricted free agency, Hoopshype
has learned.

[benefactor]

Yes to Kispert

[Ariel]

I'd pay more for Kispert than I would for Kuzma, tbqh
Not worth a first, especially since he's entering his last rookie scale deal and will need to get paid. I would consider a swap with Keldon though, give or take filler + minor assets. Much better fit.

[Degoat]

Do y’all think Caleb Martin is worth a look? Or just keep hoping Julian Champ keeps improving

[vy65]

Yes to Kispert

He’s the sort of move that actually fits what they’ve been saying outwardly. Which means they won’t make an effort on that front.

[Dverde]

Wizards are such a dumpster fire.

[Mr. Body]

Wizards are such a dumpster fire.

They're having a great off-season.

[timtonymanu]

Calling any other franchise dumpster fire when our team has been exactly that sans being lucky enough to get Vic.

[spurraider21]

Calling any other franchise dumpster fire when our team has been exactly that sans being lucky enough to get Vic.
People who think wright is doing a great job have to ask themselves what the future looked like if we had Scoot or Ausar right now instead of Wemby

[dbestpro]

Bey can shoot but can’t play defense. We went crazy on Dilly with same props. At least Bey is a SF and had on the cheap. Another more crazy reclamation would be Wiseman.

[tbdog]

People who think wright is doing a great job have to ask themselves what the future looked like if we had Scoot or Ausar right now instead of Wemby

The rebuild really only started a season ago. Wright accumulated trade assets just before and continuing now.

[spurraider21]

Spurs made QO to both Mamu and David Duke

why duke

[scott]

Spurs made QO to both Mamu and David Duke

why duke

oh now I understand why we didn't want anymore rookies

[lefty20]

oh now I understand why we didn't want anymore rookies

Not a Bridgerton enjoyer, I see.

[Spurs Brazil]

No qualifying offer for Barlow?

[onechance87]

Spurs made QO to both Mamu and David Duke

why duke

no nunez then....Guess barlow is out

[CGD]

They're having a great off-season.

I agree. The new ownership not screwing around. Jettisoning the old regime.

[ace3g]

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA
The San Antonio Spurs tendered qualifying offers to Sandro Mamukelashvili and David Duke Jr., a league source told
@spotrac
.

Both players are now restricted free agents.

[Dejounte]

Spurs made QO to both Mamu and David Duke

why duke

Duke was nice the few times I saw him. I get that one. I’m kind of glad about Barlow that they’re cutting ties early even though they’ve invested a lot in him. He’s just too limited positionally.

[Dejounte]

Can’t hang with the big bodies at C (the matchup against Duren was a nightmare)

not versatile + quick enough to play PF

[Dejounte]

https://youtu.be/vbkfESQgWIM?feature=shared

Nearly the same physical profile as Castle

tbh I’m higher on him than Wesley and Branham. He should be above them in the pecking order.

[onechance87]

Duke was nice the few times I saw him. I get that one. I’m kind of glad about Barlow that they’re cutting ties early even though they’ve invested a lot in him. He’s just too limited positionally.

hope they give duke a chance to compete for branham mins.Dude can shoot and take it to the rim.I believe hes better then branham for sure.

[DPG21920]

Man, what the hell are the Clippers going to do if they lose PG and Harden with no compensation when they have so many picks they already owe from previous trades?

What is Golden State going to do to truly help Curry/Dray out and give themselves a legit chance to win?

I’d have to think that plan C or D for GS is to blow it up and just get a ton for Curry/Dray while they still have good value if they can’t reasonably land talent?

[mystargtr34]

Kispert seems like he would be a good get for his shooting but how bad is his defense I’ve never really watched him closely.

[thOOdee]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10126609-nba-rumors-klay-thompson-to-leave-warriors-in-free-agency-lakers-clippers-linked?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1l_oVojnT2M3Ukmd Ph1yNA_bDEsLxNJ9NDCbIxmBxnwaxKIkQ_HdEQSMA_aem_VhuV T5dhyn2hVABNsTP9jQ

looks like klay’s out

[mystargtr34]

I feel like even this 70% of prime version Klay next to Luka would be a damn good fit. He’s basically a 3 at this stage of his career so he fits easily anywhere really.

Also think he would fit well on Lakers or Clippers.

[scott]

1807225248778977364

Very helpful chart from our friend Keith Smith as Free Agency looms

[DPG21920]

I know people are going to hate this but what if CHI said they would lower their pick protections to top 2 for the next 3 years on their 25 pick if SA took Lavine in for Keldon + Collins. Would anyone consider it?

It would be 2 years of hell potentially since obviously this year doesnt seem to matter cap wise and Collins+Keldon mostly cancel Lavine money out this year (and to a large part next year too). But that third year you are really on the hook but Lavine would be an expiring.

But honestly, since we’d be paying Keldon+Collins 35M a year for the first two years anyways, I would very much strongly consider it and hope that Zach can rehab that value.

[RC_Drunkford]

I‘d do that deal cause Keldon and Zach on the Bulls would ensure their defense being swiss cheese and they would finish with a bottom 10 record. Getting another crack at a top 10 pick in 2025 while offloading Collins is enough value to me.

[DPG21920]

I‘d do that deal cause Keldon and Zach on the Bulls would ensure their defense being swiss cheese and they would finish with a bottom 10 record. Getting another crack at a top 10 pick in 2025 while offloading Collins is enough value to me.

Ya - to me its just ensuring you get a crack at a really good pick with a high probability alongside Keldon+Collins money being netted out *mostly* (year 1 doesn’t seem to matter, but year 2 that extra 10M to Zach could definitely matter though) first 2 years. It’s really that third year that could comeback to bite you with Zach making 30M+ more than Keldon would have.

But is that scenario worth pick 3-10in this upcoming draft? I would say absolutely especially since theres a chance Zach could rehab value here and at least provides the shooting that Spurs need. Castle/Lavine/Vassell/Sochan/Wemby for next year isn’t the worst thing if it means a high likelihood SA gets a legit top 10 pick extra next year.

[ace3g]

Chris Haynes ChrisBHaynes
Free agent center DeAndre Jordan intends to re-sign with the Denver Nuggets on a one-year, $3.6M deal, league sources tell
@NBAonTNT
,
@BleacherReport
.

[BacktoBasics]

1807225248778977364

Very helpful chart from our friend Keith Smith as Free Agency looms

In perspective of trading 8. Hypothetical of course.

Disclaimer: I would have rather drafted Dilly or another player.

But let’s say 3-4 years from now we still need another piece to reach the next level. Dilly is averaging 17-18 and is a decent player but not a star or even knocking on all star level. The pick swap and 1st is easier to move than Dilly looking for an extension but only being a decent player. Especially in what is looking like a league that tends to over leverage itself with desperate contracts like the recent Anunoby contract etc.

Unprotected 1sts are easier to trade than a good but not great player coming off his rookie contract.

Not saying I agree or disagree but I get some of the logic.

[Mr. Body]

I know people are going to hate this but what if CHI said they would lower their pick protections to top 2 for the next 3 years on their 25 pick if SA took Lavine in for Keldon + Collins. Would anyone consider it?

It would be 2 years of hell potentially since obviously this year doesnt seem to matter cap wise and Collins+Keldon mostly cancel Lavine money out this year (and to a large part next year too). But that third year you are really on the hook but Lavine would be an expiring.

But honestly, since we’d be paying Keldon+Collins 35M a year for the first two years anyways, I would very much strongly consider it and hope that Zach can rehab that value.

Hell no. Lavine makes 43, 45, and 48 in the next three years and you're not even getting multiple picks for this? Absolutely not.

[Pauleta14]

I know people are going to hate this but what if CHI said they would lower their pick protections to top 2 for the next 3 years on their 25 pick if SA took Lavine in for Keldon + Collins. Would anyone consider it?

It would be 2 years of hell potentially since obviously this year doesnt seem to matter cap wise and Collins+Keldon mostly cancel Lavine money out this year (and to a large part next year too). But that third year you are really on the hook but Lavine would be an expiring.

But honestly, since we’d be paying Keldon+Collins 35M a year for the first two years anyways, I would very much strongly consider it and hope that Zach can rehab that value.

I would

Bulls would never tho.

[Mr. Body]

I would

Bulls would never tho.

Bulls would race to the button to get rid of Lavine for that package, are you kidding? He's past Simmons now as the biggest negative asset in the league and we're giving them two serviceable players and just drop protections on a pick? Lol, they'd give the city of SA blowjobs to get this done.

[BacktoBasics]

Bulls would race to the button to get rid of Lavine for that package, are you kidding? He's past Simmons now as the biggest negative asset in the league and we're giving them two serviceable players and just drop protections on a pick? Lol, they'd give the city of SA blowjobs to get this done.
He’s a dump and they’ll have to attach assets to move or nothing at all.

No one is going to “pay” for LaVine. You got that right. That contract is cap purgatory and he’s not a healthy player.

Zach would have to play at a near MVP level to make that contract movable for a realistic return.

[Mr. Body]

He’s a dump and they’ll have to attach assets to move or nothing at all.

No one is going to “pay” for LaVine. You got that right. That contract is cap purgatory and he’s not a healthy player.

Zach would have to play at a near MVP level to make that contract movable for a realistic return.

They're just going to have to sit on that salary for at least a couple years. It's ungodly. He's a bad player at this point, both injury prone and not remotely good when he does play. They have this $45 million kidney stone sitting in their gut and they can't do anything with it.

[Dejounte]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1807243636729348518?s=46

[DPG21920]

Hell no. Lavine makes 43, 45, and 48 in the next three years and you're not even getting multiple picks for this? Absolutely not.

Keldon + Collins are making 35.5, 35 & 17 next 3 years. This off season literally seems irrelevant in terms of the extra 8M Zach would take up do you agree? If you think SA is going to use all of their cap space for players, then ok, but I dont think SA is going big personally and can operate over the cap as well.

Year 2, Lavine’s 10M could matter, but as it stands now, Spurs have tons of cap space that year so I really dont see it being a major obstacle functionally then either. Spurs have what, 80M committed in salaries that 2nd year?

Then Keldon and/or Lavine would just have that one year left and can easily reset that money right before Wemby extension even with Dev already locked up and Sochan too with Lavine off books.

So I guess the question is how valuable is an extra pick in 25 4-10 for what you are giving up in terms of cap space opportunities?

[spurraider21]

Fwiw Bassey guarantee for this season doesn’t kick in until August 1

[spurraider21]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1807243636729348518?s=46
If spurs had interest they woulda extended a QO

he gone imo

[Dejounte]

If spurs had interest they woulda extended a QO

he gone imo

I’m betting the Spurs didn’t anticipate the news to break through spotrac. Sportrac, I think, is linked to when their offers are submitted. I bet the Spurs wanted Woj to mention that they would still be interested in hopes other teams will be too.

[Mr. Body]

Go let Dom find his level in FA. He seems like a good dude and has more of a career ahead. I wouldn't be surprised to see him return.

IMO, however, there's a subtle shift going on. I think the Spurs are tired of long projects, guys who need to be taught fundamentals and be coaxed along. That was pre-Wemby stuff. Stephon Castle won't need to be taught how to set picks properly or flip them or slip them or whatever. He knows all this shit.

Not that they're going full-on expensive vet now. But that's how I read the draft. They don't want these Bambis who trip over themselves and are clueless. That was okay when your horizon is completely out of sight. Things are different now.

[Mr. Body]

Mamukelashvili, by contrast, knows how to play. Maybe has holes or weaknesses, but he gets the game.

[DPG21920]

Interesting. There seems to be room for Barlow and he seems to fit things well with regards to big, versatile etc…

[AFBlue]

What's the Champagnie situation? Do they need to tender him an offer to restrict?

[AFBlue]

Mamukelashvili, by contrast, knows how to play. Maybe has holes or weaknesses, but he gets the game.

Does seem to be a "this or that" situation on its face, given they extended the QO to Mamu

[DPG21920]

What's the Champagnie situation? Do they need to tender him an offer to restrict?

“No money guaranteed in 2024/25, HoopsHype has learned. Guarantee increases to full if not waived by August 1, 2024 or 30 days after the first day of the 2024-25 moratorium period.”

[Ariel]

IMO, however, there's a subtle shift going on. I think the Spurs are tired of long projects, guys who need to be taught fundamentals and be coaxed along. That was pre-Wemby stuff. Stephon Castle won't need to be taught how to set picks properly or flip them or slip them or whatever. He knows all this shit.

Not that they're going full-on expensive vet now. But that's how I read the draft. They don't want these Bambis who trip over themselves and are clueless. That was okay when your horizon is completely out of sight. Things are different now.
And yet they're rumored to have moved on from the pick because Salaun was taken at 6, and passed on Dillingham who is good enough to play immediately for a contender like Minnesota according to Tim Connelly and Finch, and Knecht who is good enough to play for the Lakers. Not convinced with this explanation either. Too many loose ends... time will tell.

[AFBlue]

“No money guaranteed in 2024/25, HoopsHype has learned. Guarantee increases to full if not waived by August 1, 2024 or 30 days after the first day of the 2024-25 moratorium period.”

Got it, so same as Bassey and Spurs have time. Good to know.

[Mr. Body]

And yet they're rumored to have moved on from the pick because Salaun was taken at 6, and passed on Dillingham who is good enough to play immediately for a contender like Minnesota according to Tim Connelly and Finch, and Knecht who is good enough to play for the Lakers. Not convinced with this explanation either. Too many loose ends... time will tell.

No, I'm right. You're misinterpreting.

Minnesota is full of vets who know what they're doing. Conley, Gobert, almost all of them. You can add a puppy dog into the mix and still have things work because the vets can cover their mistakes. Dillingham will have a limited role anyway in what he needs to do.

The Spurs have been trying to teach five puppy dogs how to be a functional team of sled dogs, each capable of making decisions while working as a whole, and that's incredibly hard to do. No one covers for anyone else's mistakes and they don't even know what the mistakes are, plus they're happening all the time.

The staff has even said it, that they have had to back up and teach the very basic fundamentals of this level of basketball.

This is all a big factor in what they're doing right now.

[DPG21920]

1807167189566283940

[spurraider21]

I’m betting the Spurs didn’t anticipate the news to break through spotrac. Sportrac, I think, is linked to when their offers are submitted. I bet the Spurs wanted Woj to mention that they would still be interested in hopes other teams will be too.
Can you elaborate on this lol. You can’t exactly keep it a secret whether you do or don’t offer a QO

[spurraider21]

What's the Champagnie situation? Do they need to tender him an offer to restrict?
He’s under contract. Nothing the spurs need to do. They can waive him and owe nothing since his guarantee for this season hasn’t triggered yet but no way they don’t retain him for 3 mil

[scott]

In perspective of trading 8. Hypothetical of course.

Disclaimer: I would have rather drafted Dilly or another player.

But let’s say 3-4 years from now we still need another piece to reach the next level. Dilly is averaging 17-18 and is a decent player but not a star or even knocking on all star level. The pick swap and 1st is easier to move than Dilly looking for an extension but only being a decent player. Especially in what is looking like a league that tends to over leverage itself with desperate contracts like the recent Anunoby contract etc.

Unprotected 1sts are easier to trade than a good but not great player coming off his rookie contract.

Not saying I agree or disagree but I get some of the logic.

This is one of the most logical justifications I’ve heard yet. I still think it is awfully presumptuous of the front office (they’re “skipping the step” of actually building a team that needs to trade for that important piece), but this does make sense to me.

I’ve been pretty consistent throughout this whole thing, I’m not even mad at the concept of trading out, I just think we got a terrible return on the #8 pick. The rockets gave back Brooklyn picks for other, future picks, at an exchange rate of 2:1, but we only got a 1:1 + a swap in a year we already had a swap. I just feel we could have done better, or made the pick. Oh well.

The punting of the 35 pick is actually what has me more concerned. For the second year in a row, the Spurs didn’t want to pick a guy who would require a guaranteed deal (even though it’s at SRP level money). This is just playing scared, IMO. If we start actually utilizing cap space in a way that this matters, I’ll change my tune, but we haven’t at any time in recent history and the penny pinching ignores the fact that we constantly go through dead money via buy outs.

[Dejounte]

Can you elaborate on this lol. You can’t exactly keep it a secret whether you do or don’t offer a QO
Like, I think the form gets submitted to league offices first for review or whatever before it reaches Barlow and his agent. I’m making a guess here based on what I know about administrative work.

[scott]

I know people are going to hate this but what if CHI said they would lower their pick protections to top 2 for the next 3 years on their 25 pick if SA took Lavine in for Keldon + Collins. Would anyone consider it?

It would be 2 years of hell potentially since obviously this year doesnt seem to matter cap wise and Collins+Keldon mostly cancel Lavine money out this year (and to a large part next year too). But that third year you are really on the hook but Lavine would be an expiring.

But honestly, since we’d be paying Keldon+Collins 35M a year for the first two years anyways, I would very much strongly consider it and hope that Zach can rehab that value.

IMO, this is a really good hypothetical because I go back and forth on it, there isn’t a clear slam dunk answer for either team.

For the Spurs, we get off a shitty Collins deal, and move Keldon who I love but isn’t really a good fit. And it gives us some real legit cracks at high end talent. Love it. But I gotta feel that by Lavine’s last year (3 years from now) we’re gonna really hate having his deal on our books. If we aren’t competing enough to need that money/space by then (Wemby’s 4th year), then what the fuck are we doing?

For Chicago, getting off Lavine is a godsend. However, this kind of prevents them from tanking and getting Keldon and Collins aren’t really moves that help them be even a play-in contender. It’s a real Sophie’s Choice scenario for them.

Love this scenario.

[spurraider21]

Like, I think the form gets submitted to league offices first for review or whatever before it reaches Barlow and his agent. I’m making a guess here based on what I know about administrative work.
I’m sure these guys are in contact with the agents and letting them know what’s up

[DPG21920]

IMO, this is a really good hypothetical because I go back and forth on it, there isn’t a clear slam dunk answer for either team.

For the Spurs, we get off a shitty Collins deal, and move Keldon who I love but isn’t really a good fit. And it gives us some real legit cracks at high end talent. Love it. But I gotta feel that by Lavine’s last year (3 years from now) we’re gonna really hate having his deal on our books. If we aren’t competing enough to need that money/space by then (Wemby’s 4th year), then what the fuck are we doing?

For Chicago, getting off Lavine is a godsend. However, this kind of prevents them from tanking and getting Keldon and Collins aren’t really moves that help them be even a play-in contender. It’s a real Sophie’s Choice scenario for them.

Love this scenario.

And why I like it for Spurs is that every year with Lavine is still completely cap friendly to add talent still. His money isn’t punitive for Spurs to build.

[scott]

For Spurs cap planning purposes, what do we assume Sochan’s extension look like assuming he stays on a subtle, yet stable upward trajectory (or hell, any trajectory you like)? My take is that he’s good enough to keep developing and will probably keep developing to a marginal starter/good rotation player kind of level. Not worth going out of your way to get rid of, but also not going to stop you from upgrading.

With that said, I’m not sure that’s worth more than extension of say… 4/64 (or basically, a little over MLE), which honestly might be the bottom range of getting an extension at all. He seems like he’s going to be just good enough where you don’t want to lose him… but not good enough to fuck up your cap sheet for.

[scott]

And why I like it for Spurs is that every year with Lavine is still completely cap friendly to add talent still. His money isn’t punitive for Spurs to build.

IDK, that third year of Lavine at $48MM might be pretty damn punitive.

[DPG21920]

1807245473532494248

[ace3g]

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1807154109143036172

[DPG21920]

IDK, that third year of Lavine at $48MM might be pretty damn punitive.

I dont think so honestly. I mean in terms of is he worth it? Nope. But hes 30M over Keldon net and even with that Spurs have maybe 90-110M on the books as things stand now even with Lavine?

[scott]

I dont think so honestly. I mean in terms of is he worth it? Nope. But hes 30M over Keldon net and even with that Spurs have maybe 90-110M on the books as things stand now even with Lavine?

Are we still planning on being shitty in Wemby year 4? Because then sure, Lavine’s $50MM will be no big deal. But fuck, I hope we do something by then.

[benefactor]

Hell no. Lavine makes 43, 45, and 48 in the next three years and you're not even getting multiple picks for this? Absolutely not.
No one cares what you have to say.

[DPG21920]

Are we still planning on being shitty in Wemby year 4? Because then sure, Lavine’s $50MM will be no big deal. But fuck, I hope we do something by then.

I hope not. All Im saying is that because you are sending out Keldon/Collins at same time, that it doesn’t change anything for Spurs functionally regarding using cap space is all. They can still hammer the gas pedal down in 25’ even with Lavine.

[BacktoBasics]

1807245473532494248

We seem terrified to commit to any money. To be this terrified of even the smallest amount of money has to speak to them believing that they’re close to acquiring a big contract.

Either a significant player or significant cap space addition on loan for assets.

[DPG21920]

I honestly dont know if CHI would do it. On one hand I think they clearly should. They not only get to break up Lavines salary into 2 more manageable ones, but Keldon is a very good player.

On top of that they already “owe” the pick to SA so in some form of function they get off Lavine and dont even have to send out another pick that they already dont have sort of “budgeted” maybe? On top of getting a good player back too.

But lowering that protection to 2 or 3 and possibly sending Flagg has to be a gut punch thought. Tough one.

[scott]

I hope not. All Im saying is that because you are sending out Keldon/Collins at same time, that it doesn’t change anything for Spurs functionally regarding using cap space is all. They can still hammer the gas pedal down in 25’ even with Lavine.

It’s closer to a wash in years 1 and 2, and I agree with your analysis there, but year 3 is a massive $30MM delta. That’s the big issue. You’ll be paying to get off that last year to give you the flexibility to actually improve the team (assuming we want to improve the team, who knows with this FO).

[AFBlue]

We seem terrified to commit to any money. To be this terrified of even the smallest amount of money has to speak to them believing that they’re close to acquiring a big contract.

Either a significant player or significant cap space addition on loan for assets.

Also seems like an acknowledgement they must get older. Can't win with this much inexperience on the roster.

[TD 21]

I feel like even this 70% of prime version Klay next to Luka would be a damn good fit. He’s basically a 3 at this stage of his career so he fits easily anywhere really.

Also think he would fit well on Lakers or Clippers.

Puka is a wing defensively since he can't guard the POA. Neither can Thompson at this point, nor Irving (if the primary initiator is a big guard or wing), so they'd be screwed defensively.

[DPG21920]

It’s closer to a wash in years 1 and 2, and I agree with your analysis there, but year 3 is a massive $30MM delta. That’s the big issue. You’ll be paying to get off that last year to give you the flexibility to actually improve the team (assuming we want to improve the team, who knows with this FO).

Due to how the extensions are due, I think it’s ok. And if you have to pay to get off Lavine, so be it, you hopefully landed your core with CHI pick…

[jesterbobman]

I hope that Barlow not being given a QO is because they have actual targets for PF minutes and are letting Barlow move on rather to find a guaranteed role at some other team. I doubt it, but I still have hope that they're not just turning the patience up to 11.

[Pauleta14]

Bulls would race to the button to get rid of Lavine for that package, are you kidding? He's past Simmons now as the biggest negative asset in the league and we're giving them two serviceable players and just drop protections on a pick? Lol, they'd give the city of SA blowjobs to get this done.

Lavine alone vs Keldon Zollins? Sure they do it

Put a light potection on 25' pick? No way. it's too valuable, they can get their next fanchise player next summer with a top10

[Pauleta14]

Puka is a wing defensively since he can't guard the POA. Neither can Thompson at this point, nor Irving (if the primary initiator is a big guard or wing), so they'd be screwed defensively.

That's why I'm praying Dallas sign him.

[Dejounte]

https://x.com/shamscharania/status/1807267350401400898?s=46

[ace3g]

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1807267350401400898

[Degoat]

https://x.com/shamscharania/status/1807267350401400898?s=46

Sheesh, what the fck is Chicago doing lol

[DPG21920]

Lavine alone vs Keldon Zollins? Sure they do it

Put a light potection on 25' pick? No way. it's too valuable, they can get their next fanchise player next summer with a top10

They already owe that pick to a degree. So to be able to get off of Lavine for not an additional pick all while getting a good young player in return as well? I mean, it’s tough due to how good this draft can be, but still in that framing above it may be “cheapest” way they can get out? Not sure.

[DPG21920]

Sheesh, what the fck is Chicago doing lol

That’s a very solid deal IMO. He’s shown some stuff and that is not a lot of money moving forward (Keldon money)

[scott]

That’s about on par with the deal we gave Keldon to be our tank commander. I think Chicago is going to go rebuild with a Coby/Giddy/Paw/Buz/Whomever The Fuck lineup. They’ll find a way to dump Lavine for relatively cheap to someone who thinks they can salvage that rusty ol’ Chevy

[Degoat]

That’s a very solid deal IMO. He’s shown some stuff and that is not a lot of money moving forward (Keldon money)

Feel like Keldon has showed a hell of a lot more then Williams has in his career tho.

[manufor3]

1807245473532494248

I respect Vecenie a ton but nobody should be having this strong of an opinion in either direction on Dominick Barlow lol

[mystargtr34]

Puka is a wing defensively since he can't guard the POA. Neither can Thompson at this point, nor Irving (if the primary initiator is a big guard or wing), so they'd be screwed defensively.

Yeah you are prob right. Derrick Jones has that job atm but he’s so limited offensively it’s a trade off for his defense.

[mystargtr34]

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1807267350401400898

There goes my Pat Williams pipe dream. But not unexpected he re-signed.

Slight overpay but fair deal $18M per for a high end role player with positional size, excellent shooting, solid defense.

I’d take him for that on the Spurs.

[Chinook]

1807245473532494248

People are already starting to make weird speculation about this. This isn't weird given the other things we've seen. Barlow's QO is money the Spurs couldn't afford to keep on their balance sheet. That's true to such an extent that I stopped accounting for it in cap space calcs months ago. They still have his hold for now, and if they end up needing that, that is an option. But my guess is the Spurs would only bring him back using an exception or if a scooch of cap space is available at the end of things, and that's under the assumption they figure out what to do with Bassey. Dom is not a bad player -- but he's not where the team should be going. It would be irresponsible to risk him signing his QO when they dumped a top-10 pick to seemingly create more cap space.

[Chinook]

Sheesh, what the fck is Chicago doing lol

It's a weird deal for Williams to accept this early. Teams are going to be disappointed in the George sweepstakes, and Thompson can only be the consolation prize for one of them. Someone may well have been willing to offer that salary over four years. A lot of deals have been broken extremely early this year. It feels like the exact opposite of what the league wanted. I don't know if there's bad blood between them and ABC/Disney, but ESPN in general and Woj in particular have seemed almost spiteful this off-season.

I did go back and see teams have been allowed to talk to their own free agents since the Finals ended. But I have to imagine the league didn't want all these deals broken given the memo the pushed out last week.

One thing that will proc tampering charges thought would be to announce a sign-and-trade. If if George has a new home, they can't say anything until after 17:00 tomorrow. If the Spurs do have a real plan for their cap space, that's likely when we'd start to see any indication of it. It would be something if that involved Minny, with the pick being the first part of the trade. Such a maneuver is against the spirit of the CBA, so it would be interesting to see if someone tries to thread the needle.

[buttsR4rebounding]

It's a weird deal for Williams to accept this early. Teams are going to be disappointed in the George sweepstakes, and Thompson can only be the consolation prize for one of them. Someone may well have been willing to offer that salary over four years. A lot of deals have been broken extremely early this year. It feels like the exact opposite of what the league wanted. I don't know if there's bad blood between them and ABC/Disney, but ESPN in general and Woj in particular have seemed almost spiteful this off-season.

I did go back and see teams have been allowed to talk to their own free agents since the Finals ended. But I have to imagine the league didn't want all these deals broken given the memo the pushed out last week.

One thing that will proc tampering charges thought would be to announce a sign-and-trade. If if George has a new home, they can't say anything until after 17:00 tomorrow. If the Spurs do have a real plan for their cap space, that's likely when we'd start to see any indication of it. It would be something if that involved Minny, with the pick being the first part of the trade. Such a maneuver is against the spirit of the CBA, so it would be interesting to see if someone tries to thread the needle.

What are you referring to?

[Pauleta14]

They already owe that pick to a degree. So to be able to get off of Lavine for not an additional pick all while getting a good young player in return as well? I mean, it’s tough due to how good this draft can be, but still in that framing above it may be “cheapest” way they can get out? Not sure.

It's not absurd, I get where you're coming from, but to me next draft is unique like 03' was.

I don't believe their official ambitious stand, I think they'll tank to be sure the Spurs don't get the pick

In 1 year Lavine will be a very valuable expiring contract and who knows if he's finally injury free and gets even more value?

[DPG21920]

It's not absurd, I get where you're coming from, but to me next draft is unique like 03' was.

I don't believe their official ambitious stand, I think they'll tank to be sure the Spurs don't get the pick

In 1 year Lavine will be a very valuable expiring contract and who knows if he's finally injury free and gets even more value?

True - theres a reasonable argument to do just that. But if hes not injury free and rehabbing his value then it gets worse. If he is injury free and rehabbing his value then it hurts their ability to tank right?

[benefactor]

Spur fan seems to be stuck in 2014 when it comes to what players get paid:lol

[Pauleta14]

True - theres a reasonable argument to do just that. But if hes not injury free and rehabbing his value then it gets worse. If he is injury free and rehabbing his value then it hurts their ability to tank right?

That's not true.

I just read on the internet that he's ahead of schedule in his foot rehab and super optimistic for the coming season... :lol

[spurraider21]

People are already starting to make weird speculation about this. This isn't weird given the other things we've seen. Barlow's QO is money the Spurs couldn't afford to keep on their balance sheet. That's true to such an extent that I stopped accounting for it in cap space calcs months ago. They still have his hold for now, and if they end up needing that, that is an option. But my guess is the Spurs would only bring him back using an exception or if a scooch of cap space is available at the end of things, and that's under the assumption they figure out what to do with Bassey. Dom is not a bad player -- but he's not where the team should be going. It would be irresponsible to risk him signing his QO when they dumped a top-10 pick to seemingly create more cap space.
But then why give Duke a qualifying offer

[DPG21920]

Man, thank goodness FA is tomorrow becuase I need some damn answers lmao

[benefactor]

Man, thank goodness FA is tomorrow becuase I need some damn answers lmao
We thought we would get answers after the draft. Do you actually expect any tomorrow:lol

[DPG21920]

We thought we would get answers after the draft. Do you actually expect any tomorrow:lol

:lol not really but its where the can has been kicked down the proverbial road lmao

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

The Patrick Williams contract is going to be a steal. He’s not great, sure, but his archetype is valuable and with the cap rising so much it’ll be more like MLE type deal. Good for Chicago. Not sure why he didn’t take his time to decide, there must have been some sign and trade options.

[objective]

Vecenie isn't the only one high on Barlow, the Dunc'd On guys are also

I think it was probably one of those old days decisions to be pushovers and not leverage any advantage they ever have. Just like guys like Cory Joseph or J Simmons, they think the rfa tag is keeping the player from getting an offer, so they just let him. Go. They probably think that Barlow did them a favor by not publicly making an issue about having to go without a full NBA deal until mid season. This non tender might have been the sweetener to get him to play along on a 2way.

And that Patrick Williams news is like a punch in the gut. That's fair money and the Spurs lose out again, nothing new.

[DPG21920]

Ya - I made up a lot of scenarios where he came to SA in FA. Would have loved him on a deal like this. Oh well was not meant to be

[kobyz]

Bulls would race to the button to get rid of Lavine for that package, are you kidding? He's past Simmons now as the biggest negative asset in the league and we're giving them two serviceable players and just drop protections on a pick? Lol, they'd give the city of SA blowjobs to get this done.

Bulls not in rush to trade Lavine, they could get much better offers fir Lavine, maybe a team like the lakers who desperately need a third star

[Chinook]

But then why give Duke a qualifying offer

Duke still has two-way eligibility. If he signs the QO, it's just for a two-way and doesn't affect the Spurs' cap. Barlow can't be signed for a third two-way by the Spurs if I recall correctly. His QO is for an actual contract. Another team could give him a third and final two-way but that's not an option for SA.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

And that Patrick Williams news is like a punch in the gut. That's fair money and the Spurs lose out again, nothing new.

What did the Spurs lose? He didn’t even make it to the point where they could even talk to him and Chicago about a sign and trade.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Duke still has two-way eligibility. If he signs the QO, it's just for a two-way and doesn't affect the Spurs' cap. Barlow can't be signed for a third two-way by the Spurs if I recall correctly. His QO is for an actual contract. Another team could give him a third and final two-way but that's not an option for SA.

Yep, exactly. Spurs can still sign Barlow with (a part of) the room exception if they operate under the cap or MLE if they’re over.

[Cabrito]

Didn’t we fail to give a qualifying offer to Mamu last year and brought him back anyway?

[tbdog]

What did the Spurs lose? He didn’t even make it to the point where they could even talk to him and Chicago about a sign and trade.

Well spurs would need to offer a contract that Bulls wouldn't match. Usually agents are calling teams, are you interested in my client? Perhaps there wasn't much interest in a restricted free agent like Williams. Bulls 100%, need him, their D will suck next year without him. I would so trade Johnson for Williams though. White would be a nice target.

[heyheymymy]

I bet Barlow gets interest from other teams but if he's still around after the dust settles and SA strikes out wonder if they try to bring him back.

[scott]

When’s the last time the Spurs signed an RFA to an offer sheet? I’m skeptical PWilliams was even on their radar.

[spurraider21]

Duke still has two-way eligibility. If he signs the QO, it's just for a two-way and doesn't affect the Spurs' cap. Barlow can't be signed for a third two-way by the Spurs if I recall correctly. His QO is for an actual contract. Another team could give him a third and final two-way but that's not an option for SA.
Ah makes sense :tu

[DPG21920]

When’s the last time the Spurs signed an RFA to an offer sheet? I’m skeptical PWilliams was even on their radar.

Doug McDermott and Collins? Wait, RFA means Really F*cking Awful right?

[scott]

Doug McDermott and Collins? Wait, RFA means Really F*cking Awful right?

:lol :lol :lol

As I was reading this I was like “c’mon DPG, you know damn well those guys weren’t RFAs” then I got to the punchline :lol

[poopbox]

Man, thank goodness FA is tomorrow becuase I need some damn answers lmao

You think the Spurs are going to do something in free agency tomorrow :lol

[DPG21920]

You think the Spurs are going to do something in free agency tomorrow :lol

Hope springs eternal in DPG mind

[objective]

What did the Spurs lose? He didn’t even make it to the point where they could even talk to him and Chicago about a sign and trade.

It's one more legit rotation player and potential starter who can shoot that's off the market, and one who could defend also

You might have a point, Spurs seem hellbent on surrounding Wemby with hesitating bricklayers to make his life as hard as possible, so Williams would never have been a target

[tbdog]

It's one more legit rotation player and potential starter who can shoot that's off the market, and one who could defend also

You might have a point, Spurs seem hellbent on surrounding Wemby with hesitating bricklayers to make his life as hard as possible, so Williams would never have been a target

Yeah this, but the SF free agency market is slim. Plenty of bench sg though.

[duncan2150]

Yeah this, but the SF free agency market is slim. Plenty of bench sg though.If it's for a bench SF just bring back osman for cheap. He was solid last year and the best shooter on the team

[kobyz]

My top 10 FA targets for the Spurs:
1. Isaac Okoro
2. Derrick Jones
3. Saddiq Bey
4. Max Christie
5. Naji Marshall
6. Xavier Tillman, Sr.
7. De'Anthony Melton
8. Simone Fontecchio
9. Haywood Highsmith
10. Precious Achiuwa

[k830713]

TOP 5:
Miles Bridges
DeMar DeRozan
Obi Toppin
Gary Trent Jr
Buddy Hield

[exstatic]

Interesting. There seems to be room for Barlow and he seems to fit things well with regards to big, versatile etc…

Too small for the 5, not skilled enough for the 4, the dreaded tweener.

[exstatic]

1807245473532494248

Comparing a player two years into the league with draft picks is not valid.

I like Dom, but he might be one of those players Pop was talking about when Sean asked him why they don’t run certain plays any more, and Pop said the players weren’t sophisticated enough to understand them. He can be the best kid in the world, and by all accounts is, and still not be a good fit.

[exstatic]

Sheesh, what the fck is Chicago doing lol

Making sure that pick conveys?

[exstatic]

It's not absurd, I get where you're coming from, but to me next draft is unique like 03' was.

I don't believe their official ambitious stand, I think they'll tank to be sure the Spurs don't get the pick

In 1 year Lavine will be a very valuable expiring contract and who knows if he's finally injury free and gets even more value?
In one year, Lavine will have two years left. Year three remaining is a $48M PLAYER option that he will ABSOLUTELY pick up. Consider it 3 years remaining.

[exstatic]

TOP 5:
Miles Bridges
DeMar DeRozan
Obi Toppin
Gary Trent Jr
Buddy Hield
Dear God

[Dejounte]

Somehow bring in both Batum and KCP on 2 year contracts and that would be a perfect offseason. Those two have a wealth of knowledge to bring to our young players.

[HankChinaski]

I like the idea of Batum, Pope, Melton as possible free agents.

[Ice009]

Comparing a player two years into the league with draft picks is not valid.

I like Dom, but he might be one of those players Pop was talking about when Sean asked him why they don’t run certain plays any more, and Pop said the players weren’t sophisticated enough to understand them. He can be the best kid in the world, and by all accounts is, and still not be a good fit.

I was going to ask about this. Do you know when it was that Sean asked this so I can figure out who was on the roster at the time? Is this last season when Sean asked, or was this a few years ago when we had DeRozen, Dejounte and those guys?

[Ice009]

Somehow bring in both Batum and KCP on 2 year contracts and that would be a perfect offseason. Those two have a wealth of knowledge to bring to our young players.


I like the idea of Batum, Pope, Melton as possible free agents.

I like the idea of Batum and KCP. Batum would be great to have as a mentor and last I looked, he could still play a little bit (How is his game as of now, though?). KCP would also be nice.

Who is Pope and Melton. I don't recall either of those guys, but then again, I don't know every player in the NBA liked I used to back when Tim was playing.

[Dex]

1807393336908529687

[Pauleta14]

In one year, Lavine will have two years left. Year three remaining is a $48M PLAYER option that he will ABSOLUTELY pick up. Consider it 3 years remaining.

My bad, forgot the player option...

At that point if I'm the Bulls I'd rather pray and see if he can do a full season (who knows?).

He's unmoveable this summer imo, too huge of a risk

[ace3g]

https://x.com/BobbyMarks42/status/1807430453093110159

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1807428599017873606

[Degoat]

Have a feeling DET is gonna offer the bag to Tobias Harris

[CGD]

Have a feeling DET is gonna offer the bag to Tobias Harris

Yup, and the spurs should stay away from all that

[TD 21]

^ It's been long rumored.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/ShamsCharania/status/1807448400108962240

[poopbox]

TOP 5:
Miles Bridges
DeMar DeRozan
Obi Toppin
Gary Trent Jr
Buddy Hield

This team is so bad people want Demar back :rollin

[Ignazzz]

TOP 5:
Miles Bridges
DeMar DeRozan
Obi Toppin
Gary Trent Jr
Buddy Hield

no IQ list?
Obi Buddy & Miles no sir!

[exstatic]

I was going to ask about this. Do you know when it was that Sean asked this so I can figure out who was on the roster at the time? Is this last season when Sean asked, or was this a few years ago when we had DeRozen, Dejounte and those guys?

No,it was one of the last two seasons during the tanks.

[exstatic]

This team is so bad people want Demar back :rollin

People is plural. I don’t see anyone else jumping on this train.

[spurraider21]

Obi Topping staying in Indy on 4/60 deal per sources

[onechance87]

i can see us signing tyus jones...Ive always read about the spurs being intersted in him last couple of years.

[Ice009]

No,it was one of the last two seasons during the tanks.

Alright, thanks. Good to know. So it's likely some of the guys on the team now can't run that offense, so I am guessing whoever they are, aren't likely to stay on the team?

[ace3g]

https://x.com/YahooSports/status/1807469492676514120

[DPG21920]

Obi really rehabbed his value in IND and did a great job. Nice contract for him to land and solid deal for IND too so it makes sense.

[Mr. Body]

To the Jazz makes no damn sense for anyone.

[heyheymymy]

shit that would appease Lauri

still, I can't see PG leaving LAC but maybe this is it

[scott]

Obi Topping staying in Indy on 4/60 deal per sources

That's a pretty fair valuation for Obi, IMO and kind of validates my feelings on what Sochan's extension would look like if it were due now (4/64 is what I wrote in another thread... I'd definitely rate Obi ahead of Sochan right now, but Obi has more years under his belt).

[scott]

PG13 to Jazz talk seems like exactly the kind of thing you leak to get that extra year out of LAC.

[mystargtr34]

Read on twitter PG wanted to go to the Warriors but the Clippers wouldn’t send him there. Good to see the Warriors get fucked.

[Chinook]

Read on twitter PG wanted to go to the Warriors but the Clippers wouldn’t send him there. Good to see the Warriors get fucked.

It sounds like the Clippers had basically been sabotaging any trade deals involving him. Like I don't just mean that they have been unwilling to trade him. It seems like they've been leading teams that they were willing to make something happen as a way to run out the clock and in hopes that George was willing to opt in. I have a feeling that even if LAC had given him their word that they'd trade him that they would've pulled that "We have to make the move that's best for our team" shit and held onto him at least going into the season. I would have a hard time trusting them in any sign-and-trade situation. Any team that doesn't have the cap space would probably have to make it with LAC being involved. It's one thing for them to not want to deal him or to be worried about how it affects their ability to add salary. It's another if they are actually misleading teams hoping to force a situation where George has to go back. But I wouldn't expect anything less from a team like the Clippers.

[RC_Drunkford]

sure he gon leave LA to live in Utah :lol

[Ice009]

Fuck that, glad they didn't send him there. I DO NOT want the Warriors winning a 5th ring. Same with Lebron.

[scott]

This is a stupid question that I should know the answer to... but are you allowed to S&T other team's FAs? Like, could DET do a S&T for George to GS?

[RC_Drunkford]

This is a stupid question that I should know the answer to... but are you allowed to S&T other team's FAs? Like, could DET do a S&T for George to GS?

nope

[Mr. Body]

We really need him to stay in LAC.

[benefactor]

sure he gon leave LA to live in Utah :lol
Not only is Utah going nowhere....it's fucking Utah:lol

[mystargtr34]

I ultimately think PoorG stays with the Clips and accepts the 3/$151M deal they gave Kawhi.

This is all negotiating tactics.

[r0drig0lac]

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1807489944014762138

[ace3g]

https://x.com/tim_cato/status/1807485891495240133

[DPG21920]

Kind of crazy how quiet spurs rumors are despite having Wemby, cap space, tons of picks and needs to improve.

[Mr. Body]

Kind of crazy how quiet spurs rumors are despite having Wemby, cap space, tons of picks and needs to improve.

You didn't see the interest in Haywood Highsmith???

[RC_Drunkford]

Kind of crazy how quiet spurs rumors are despite having Wemby, cap space, tons of picks and needs to improve.

why? we never do anything. One thing I can guarantee is that whoever we sign, we'll hvae to overpay cause otherwise that player has no desire to play here.

[onechance87]

https://x.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1807489944014762138

we already got a player like this in champ....If hes gonna be cheap sure i guess.

[manufor3]

https://x.com/mikefinger/status/1806151831522783615

This is what Mike Finger said directly after we traded #8. How quickly will him, McDonald, and company change their tune if we do nothing?

[CGD]

Kind of crazy how quiet spurs rumors are despite having Wemby, cap space, tons of picks and needs to improve.

In fairness, this FA crop is complete and utter trash. And, add that some of the targets that may have been of interest to some here (Monk, Patrick Williams) have already come off the board.

I’m more interested in the trade market anyway, including what they do with that Graham contract.

[DPG21920]

In fairness, this FA crop is complete and utter trash. And, add that some of the targets that may have been of interest to some here (Monk, Patrick Williams) have already come off the board.

I’m more interested in the trade market anyway, including what they do with that Graham contract.

Ya I’m talking more trades

[Dejounte]

https://x.com/chrisbhaynes/status/1807504228027429150?s=46

[DAF86]

https://x.com/chrisbhaynes/status/1807504228027429150?s=46

It's what it makes the most sense for both parties, tbh.

[Dverde]

Spurs waiting for the big dominos to drop. I would like to think SA is a better destination than Detroit, Orlando, Utah. I think OKC is the one that might ruin their plans.

[DAF86]

Spurs waiting for the big dominos to drop. I would like to think SA is a better destination than Detroit, Orlando, Utah. I think OKC is the one that might ruin their plans.

Plans of what? Are you talking about someone specifically?

[Dverde]

How about Spurs getting into a Zach Lavine for Lauri trade. Spurs chip him some picks and some salary to redirect Lauri to the Spurs since the Bulls have no need for him.

[Dverde]

Plans of what? Are you talking about someone specifically?
I’m talking about their FA targets. I would hope they have one or two before they punt on the offseason.

[CGD]

Ya I’m talking more trades

My list of desired moves:

- Flip Zach… into Lopez+Asset
- Flip Graham/Asset … into DeAndre Hunter
- sign Gary Trent Jr.

Tre/Castle
Vassell/Trent
Hunter/Champ
Sochan/Keldon
Wemby/Lopez

Be opportunistic with Keldon, Tre, Malaki trades throughout the year.

[scott]

https://x.com/mikefinger/status/1806151831522783615

This is what Mike Finger said directly after we traded #8. How quickly will him, McDonald, and company change their tune if we do nothing?

They'll do so almost immediately, and then basically suggest their readers are morons for thinking any differently.

[Spurs Homer]

But but

2031!

[objective]

Surprised Toppin got that much, Pacers getting close to a tax team

[ace3g]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1807519928678797327

[ace3g]

https://x.com/JeffGSpursZone/status/1807520607690469734

[Chinook]

Hmm... so the cap is even smaller than the smaller revision the league put out. That's interesting, though with the insane TV deal, it probably doesn't matter.

[Dejounte]

We won’t be really hearing much until the 6th, right? Only negotiations are beginning in an hour, but that doesn’t mean much news will happen until the 6th…

[Ice009]

Isn't the 6th when people can sign and make trades and stuff official? All the news will come out as it happens I'm pretty sure. If Paul George commits to the Sixers today, then it'll be announced right away.

I really wonder what PG is going to do as where do you guys project the Clippers to finish if he leaves? I don't want them giving up a high draft pick to OKC.

[Truckules]

Surprised Toppin got that much, Pacers getting close to a tax team
His contract is cheap as hell considering he was 4th in minutes and 3rd in win shares on the team. $15 million is only 10.6% of the cap for next year.

[ace3g]

We won’t be really hearing much until the 6th, right? Only negotiations are beginning in an hour, but that doesn’t mean much news will happen until the 6th…

Basically, everything announced starting today will 99.9% happen unless you have someone like Marcus Morris come around...

[scott]

We won’t be really hearing much until the 6th, right? Only negotiations are beginning in an hour, but that doesn’t mean much news will happen until the 6th…

Somehow, teams and agents who have been unable to communicate up to now will manage to negotiate a multi-year contract in under a minute. I'm always amazed at the efficiency of these agents, some of America's most productive people (and in far contrast to every other lawyer on the planet)

[ace3g]

Somehow, teams and agents who have been unable to communicate up to now will manage to negotiate a multi-year contract in under a minute. I'm always amazed at the efficiency of these agents, some of America's most productive people (and in far contrast to every other lawyer on the planet)

Yep, over/under 30 saved drafts Woj/Shams already have ready to send.

[scott]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1807519928678797327

#35 picks can end up useful players? Huge if true.

[Dejounte]

#35 picks can end up useful players? Huge if true.

Can you bring me up to speed on what happened with us in the second round? I didnt tune in and I really don’t understand what happened.

[baseline bum]

People who think wright is doing a great job have to ask themselves what the future looked like if we had Scoot or Ausar right now instead of Wemby

Probably Seattle or Las Vegas