2024 NBA Off-Season Thread (FA, Trades, Extensions, Rumors)

[scott]

Thought I'd start a thread to keep track of developments. This isn't an official move, but my guess is that it will be one this summer.

1793438042365014110

[Chinook]

It's crazy that if Keith Smith is right, Wemby's first extension would dwarf that at $418M/5

[exstatic]

It's crazy that if Keith Smith is right, Wemby's first extension would dwarf that at $418M/5
He can thank NBC for coming over the top of TNT’s $1.1B with $2.5B.

[scott]

It's crazy that if Keith Smith is right, Wemby's first extension would dwarf that at $418M/5

I think that would be for a 35% super max, Wemby's first extension would be a rookie SuperMax (30% with 8% raises) limited to $330/5 if I'm doing my math right.

But then his first Vet SuperMax in 2033-34 would start at $105MM/yr and be a $620MM/5. Wowzas.

[Notorious H.O.P.]

Nearly $1 Billion for 10 years of work. Several players that don't really deserve that will get it. Here's to hoping that Wemby outperforms his contract. He may be one the very few with a chance to do so if he continues his meteoric rise.

[Mr. Body]

Nearly $1 Billion for 10 years of work. Several players that don't really deserve that will get it. Here's to hoping that Wemby outperforms his contract. He may be one the very few with a chance to do so if he continues his meteoric rise.

It's highly likely Wemby will bring back multiples of that figure's worth to the franchise even before he gets that contract.

[Notorious H.O.P.]

I'm sure his presence alone has already added a couple hundred million+ in value to the franchise.

[heyheymymy]

Yeah Wemby was already top 5 social media clicks his rookie season.

His visibility is a gold mine for the franchise.

[adonis827]

Per ESPN's Bobby Marks, that means Dončić is eligible to sign for five years and $346.4 million ($69.3 million per season), which would be the richest contract in NBA history. Gilgeous-Alexander is eligible to sign for four years and $294.3 million ($73.6 million per season).

Edwards and Haliburton are now eligible to sign lucrative extensions to their rookie contracts that would net them each an extra $41 million over the life of the contracts. They were previously eligible to sign five-year extensions starting next season valued at $204.5 million ($40.9 million AAV). Those contracts would now be valued at $245.4 million ($49.1 million AAV) over the life of the extensions.

seems SGA has a bigger per year contract but why can he not sign for 5 years? I know he was traded his rookie year

[exstatic]

I'm sure his presence alone has already added a couple hundred million+ in value to the franchise.

The projections from 2022 after the Mets92/Ignite games were that he would IMMEDIATELY increase the value of his drafting franchise by $500M. Day one.

[R. DeMurre]

A very long time ago, Babe Ruth signed a contract that gave him a yearly salary that was more than what the President of the country made. That fact seemed incredible to fans. A journalist at the time asked, "do you think it's fair that you're paid more than the President?" and Ruth quipped, "well, I had a better year than he did." Great line. Fast forward a century, and nearly every player on every team makes more than the President, and stars make 100x the presidential salary. The amount of generational wealth being created for the players and their families is phenomenal, but I worry about the sustainability of the league if the planet hits an unexpected economic downturn at any point in the next fifty years.

[Pauleta14]

The projections from 2022 after the Mets92/Ignite games were that he would IMMEDIATELY increase the value of his drafting franchise by $500M. Day one.

I forgot the source (I think SA Express News) but it said that Spurs' franchise value gained 1 Billion just with Wemby's arrival.

[Mugen]

It's crazy that if Keith Smith is right, Wemby's first extension would dwarf that at $418M/5

He should get more for potentially saving the franchise and city tbh

[couchman]

The increasing revenues is part of why I laugh every time people worry about Keldon or Devin's contracts.
Those things are going to be bargains very soon and they don't prevent us from doing what we want right now either.

[Mr. Body]

The increasing revenues is part of why I laugh every time people worry about Keldon or Devin's contracts.
Those things are going to be bargains very soon and they don't prevent us from doing what we want right now either.

They also go down year over year iirc.

[heyheymymy]

They also go down year over year iirc.

Yeah that Vassell structure is brilliant. Front loaded while we tanked and with a ~2.5MM dip in the middle of the last 3 years

[SpursFan86]

1793670311566602466

I was on board the Chris Paul train last offseason, but not as sure at this point. Feel like he declined quite a bit from the previous season, Tre Jones proved himself as a solid backup PG, and it seems very likely we draft a PG in the lottery next month. Just not loving the idea of giving 20+ minutes a night to CP3.

[Mr. Body]

I would 100% go for Chris Paul for some reasonable price. He significantly advanced Booker's understanding of the game and his career.

[R. DeMurre]

I can't stand Chris Paul. One of the dirtiest players in the league, an over-the-top flopper, and seems to leave enemies behind on every team he plays for. Just because a guy is old, that doesn't make him a "mentor." That's the word everyone's throwing around on twitter... no way, keep him as far away from Wemby as possible.

[Ariel]

I have yet to see a Spurs' related rumour that goes beyond some media guy presenting as info what he believes makes sense. This Chris Paul bit isn't any different IMO.

[r0drig0lac]

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1793686285212651986

[KobesAchilles]

I can't stand Chris Paul. One of the dirtiest players in the league, an over-the-top flopper, and seems to leave enemies behind on every team he plays for. Just because a guy is old, that doesn't make him a "mentor." That's the word everyone's throwing around on twitter... no way, keep him as far away from Wemby as possible.
Dude mentored Booker and SGA. He's a great mentor for young point guards. He just gets on veteran players nerves

[R. DeMurre]

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1793686285212651986


It'd be so strange if OG and Immanuel Quickley both went to other teams, and that whole Knicks/Toronto trade winds up amounting to nothing.

[Mr. Body]

I have yet to see a Spurs' related rumour that goes beyond some media guy presenting as info what he believes makes sense. This Chris Paul bit isn't any different IMO.

It's impossible to know before things happen. I mean, I didn't believe the Dejounte to Atlanta rumors at all. And then he was traded.

But some rumors do sound plausible. Spurs having interest in Castle. Plausible. Spurs might be a Paul destination. Plausible.

[Leetonidas]

I don't see CP3 coming to play backup at the final stage of his career. But if he does, I wouldn't mind him as a backup and mentor to whatever PG we draft (assuming we do). If Spurs end up trading for a PG I'd rather just keep Tre as the backup

[SpursFan86]

I just don’t see Chris Paul spending his last year or 2 on a team that is nowhere near competing. Thought it was a long shot last offseason for the same reason. I’m sure he respects Pop and would love to play with Wemby but he’s not passing up his last chance for a ring for those reasons.

[scott]

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1793686285212651986

Maxey-OG-Embiid + 12 other guys on min deals, coming up

[Ariel]

Maxey-OG-Embiid + 12 other guys on min deals, coming up
There's about a 10% chance both Embiid and Anunoby stay healthy for the whole playoffs, which is what would have to happen for them to have a chance. I wouldn't go that route.

[CGD]

Maxey-OG-Embiid + 12 other guys on min deals, coming up

Philly definitely gonna price enforce. Knicks gonna have to max this fool to keep him.

[Robz4000]

I just don’t see Chris Paul spending his last year or 2 on a team that is nowhere near competing. Thought it was a long shot last offseason for the same reason. I’m sure he respects Pop and would love to play with Wemby but he’s not passing up his last chance for a ring for those reasons.

If he goes to the Lakers he's passing up his last shot at a ring too tbh. If he was serious about contending he'd join Denver on the vet minimum.

[JuneJive]

With the Cavs firing Bickerstaff, the word is Mitchell is closer to staying than Garland.

Any thoughts on acquiring Garland?

Pros/cons?

[spurraider21]

I can't stand Chris Paul. One of the dirtiest players in the league, an over-the-top flopper, and seems to leave enemies behind on every team he plays for. Just because a guy is old, that doesn't make him a "mentor." That's the word everyone's throwing around on twitter... no way, keep him as far away from Wemby as possible.
he might not be a mentor from a personality standpoint as being the likeable leader, but you can bet your ass that

a) he demands perfection from teammates
b) will hold players accountable
c) show them how to be consummate pro's by example

if we draft a PG, paul could be the one to show them the ropes

as mr body said, the suns style of play matured due to his presence. so did OKC's when he went there. i dont know that he'd want to play for a team like the spurs as opposed to trying to ring chase w/ a team like denver

[cd98]

CP3 will go play with LBJ. If we sign him, he would probably be cut at the end of the season so he could join a contender.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1793686285212651986

Spurs should try to get him tbh. We'd probably have to salary dump Zach Collins to do so, but it would be worth it. Anounoby would be a valuable starter and will always have value on the trade market if you want to aquire someone better.


With the Cavs firing Bickerstaff, the word is Mitchell is closer to staying than Garland.

Any thoughts on acquiring Garland?

Pros/cons?

third realistic trade target at PG next to Murray and Young. He's also on a big deal, but that is not that big of an issue with Wemby still on his rookie contract. Cons is the Cavs would want players in return, not picks. So most likely would have to be a 3-team deal I guess. I wouldn't mind getting him for the right price, but then again Dillingham might be a player of the same caliber down the line.

[Joseph Kony]

Looking at less sexy moves - the Spurs need an actual backup C behind Wemby and it's clear Collins is not fit for that role.

Ignoring what we'd have to do to dump his salary, who would be a realistic target as Vic's backup in FA? Kornet? Valanuncias? Drummond? slim pickings out there but Spurs need someone who isn't a soft vagina that constantly gets bullied on D and can actually rebound

[BacktoBasics]

With the Cavs firing Bickerstaff, the word is Mitchell is closer to staying than Garland.

Any thoughts on acquiring Garland?

Pros/cons?

Before the season I would have been for it. After the season I feel less enthused. He didn't have a great year. Down across the board. He didn't work with Mitchell would I had expected to work out much better. So how would he fit on our roster if we draft into that 1 or 2 slot. I'm not sure.

[mo7888]

Looking at less sexy moves - the Spurs need an actual backup C behind Wemby and it's clear Collins is not fit for that role.

Ignoring what we'd have to do to dump his salary, who would be a realistic target as Vic's backup in FA? Kornet? Valanuncias? Drummond? slim pickings out there but Spurs need someone who isn't a soft vagina that constantly gets bullied on D and can actually rebound

I think Kornet is too soft as well. Drummond is probably the most gettable... Valanuncias is the best of the bunch if he's willing to come in a backup role.

[r0drig0lac]

https://twitter.com/esidery/status/1793702383530492183

[CGD]

https://twitter.com/esidery/status/1793702383530492183

Cleaning house, about time

[exstatic]

https://twitter.com/esidery/status/1793702383530492183man, sounds like they’re clearing the runway for Risacher.

[mo7888]

man, sounds like they’re clearing the runway for Risacher.

Exactly.... Bilal, Deni, Risacher, and Kispert are the ones they keep

[scott]

Looking at less sexy moves - the Spurs need an actual backup C behind Wemby and it's clear Collins is not fit for that role.

Ignoring what we'd have to do to dump his salary, who would be a realistic target as Vic's backup in FA? Kornet? Valanuncias? Drummond? slim pickings out there but Spurs need someone who isn't a soft vagina that constantly gets bullied on D and can actually rebound

I think Big Daddy and Drummond would both be nice in that role, but I think we're just gonna have to roll with Collins for at least another year. It's not worth it to try and dump his salary with two years left, and it doesn't make sense to dump significant money into another backup C. I'm not overly optimistic about Bassey's ability to stay healthy, but I feel like he will be able to hold down the backup spot for a long time if he could.

[BackHome]

Looking at less sexy moves - the Spurs need an actual backup C behind Wemby and it's clear Collins is not fit for that role.

Ignoring what we'd have to do to dump his salary, who would be a realistic target as Vic's backup in FA? Kornet? Valanuncias? Drummond? slim pickings out there but Spurs need someone who isn't a soft vagina that constantly gets bullied on D and can actually rebound

Yeah, I am OK going through the next season without a legit backup, but in the 2025 draft i want us to use all those second round pick to move up and take a legit backup. I still have nightmares of Bonner playing so many games as our Center and battling Shaq ...

[wildbill2u]

What happens to all these salary increases and team valuations if there is a serious financial downturn in the economy. You have to think that all of the contracts and valuations are built on the assumption that the NBA has an unlimited potential upward in the future. Although there is no comparison between the professional sports leagues when the last real depression occurred and their place in society today, a massive financial downturn is going to affect all entertainment venues and the revenues available to pay these astronomical salaries. Think about the huge contract given to Madonna back in the day, based upon some recording company's prediction of her continuing value as a performer. (Some of you may say, "ERuh...Madonna who?") Does anyone know if the standard NBA contract allows for downward corrections in pay if the economy goes south?

[exstatic]

What happens to all these salary increases and team valuations if there is a serious financial downturn in the economy. You have to think that all of the contracts and valuations are built on the assumption that the NBA has an unlimited potential upward in the future. Although there is no comparison between the professional sports leagues when the last real depression occurred and their place in society today, a massive financial downturn is going to affect all entertainment venues and the revenues available to pay these astronomical salaries. Think about the huge contract given to Madonna back in the day, based upon some recording company's prediction of her continuing value as a performer. (Some of you may say, "ERuh...Madonna who?") Does anyone know if the standard NBA contract allows for downward corrections in pay if the economy goes south?

The thing that will affect the NBA is the aftermath of any economic downturn, the CBA afterwards. Their media money is locked in for the duration of the deals, as are the pay scales.

[scott]

What happens to all these salary increases and team valuations if there is a serious financial downturn in the economy. You have to think that all of the contracts and valuations are built on the assumption that the NBA has an unlimited potential upward in the future. Although there is no comparison between the professional sports leagues when the last real depression occurred and their place in society today, a massive financial downturn is going to affect all entertainment venues and the revenues available to pay these astronomical salaries. Think about the huge contract given to Madonna back in the day, based upon some recording company's prediction of her continuing value as a performer. (Some of you may say, "ERuh...Madonna who?") Does anyone know if the standard NBA contract allows for downward corrections in pay if the economy goes south?

This is just speculation, but I believe there is enough profit margin in the league to absorb any short turn economic downturn. For example, NBA revenues were down 9.5% during the first year of the Pandemic, and then 19% the second year, which honestly doesn't seem that bad considering they were playing in a bubble and then to mostly empty stadiums. It's a different league, but the NFL (as a league) has around a 62% profit margin. If similar is true of the NBA, then there is plenty of margin to absorb those short term shocks for the league as a whole (though some individual teams may struggle).

Here is a chart of NBA League Revenues since 2005. Even the financial crisis of 2008 didn't really have much of a negative impact on the league, so save for something like a Pandemic, it appears that sports leagues are pretty resilient to macro-economic factors - which makes some sense as, despite reduced consumption ability, consumers will still want an escape from the world.

Note: I did find that the NBA has more like a 30% profit margin. So not as able to withstand shocks as the NFL, but owners are also already rich. With that said, the cap will probably increase more like 0% as opposed to 10% in these cases.

[T Park]

Before the season I would have been for it. After the season I feel less enthused. He didn't have a great year. Down across the board. He didn't work with Mitchell would I had expected to work out much better. So how would he fit on our roster if we draft into that 1 or 2 slot. I'm not sure.

the broken jaw that kept him from eating solid food for over a month had something To do with it

[Mal]

Looking at less sexy moves - the Spurs need an actual backup C behind Wemby and it's clear Collins is not fit for that role.

Ignoring what we'd have to do to dump his salary, who would be a realistic target as Vic's backup in FA? Kornet? Valanuncias? Drummond? slim pickings out there but Spurs need someone who isn't a soft vagina that constantly gets bullied on D and can actually rebound

Spurs legend, Nikola Milutinov

[BacktoBasics]

the broken jaw that kept him from eating solid food for over a month had something To do with it

Yeah I only follow loosely. Knowing that he didn’t like playing alongside Mitchell had me half expecting that he would have put the team on his shoulders in the playoffs with Mitchell out. He kinda shit the bed there.

That wasn’t a good look.

[CGD]

Exactly.... Bilal, Deni, Risacher, and Kispert are the ones they keep

Likely, but I still think Clingan makes a ton of sense in DC. Tone setter on D, who can play with those three wings in the short term.

[Pauleta14]

If he goes to the Lakers he's passing up his last shot at a ring too tbh. If he was serious about contending he'd join Denver on the vet minimum.

Paul is preparing his post bb career in the medias, LA is the perfect spot

[JuneJive]

KCP for ~20M/yr.

Yay/nay?

[fafo]

KCP for ~20M/yr.

Yay/nay?
He would definitely provide some stability at the 3 in place of Champagnie. A little small for a 3 but I think they'd be able to survive that. I'd also think it'd be good to offer just a 1-year guaranteed deal. He probably wouldn't want to commit long-term to what is currently a nonplayoff team, plus I doubt San Antonio wants to tie up salary in a short-term vet. I also think it'd just be fun to cause some chaos by making Denver's depth bleed a little.

If not KCP, I do think there is a solid strategy in getting a good vet by offering nearly all the cap space at them on a short-term payday ala Bruce Brown last summer, then filling other areas with older vets at the minimum and/or other young guys.

[Obstructed_View]

1793670311566602466

I was on board the Chris Paul train last offseason, but not as sure at this point. Feel like he declined quite a bit from the previous season, Tre Jones proved himself as a solid backup PG, and it seems very likely we draft a PG in the lottery next month. Just not loving the idea of giving 20+ minutes a night to CP3.
This is that old bullshit of an agent saying the Spurs are interested as a way to make their client look like a team-first guy. Chris Paul is on a short list of guys I never want to see in silver and black.

[r0drig0lac]

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1795097953880719608

[dbestpro]

Old guards to learn from that are FAs. Patty Mills, Spencer Dinwiddie, Kyle Lowry, Kyle Anderson and Corey Joseph.

[td4mvp2k]

Old guards to learn from that are FAs. Patty Mills, Spencer Dinwiddie, Kyle Lowry, Kyle Anderson and Corey Joseph.
anderson makes most sense they should def bring him back

[exstatic]

anderson makes most sense they should def bring him back

I’ve been thinking that for a minute. He would definitely shore up our defense and add some additional playmaking.

[LeBowen]

Another non-shooting forward is exactly what we need.

[jjspur]

Old guards to learn from that are FAs. Patty Mills, Spencer Dinwiddie, Kyle Lowry, Kyle Anderson and Corey Joseph.

At this point in their careers, these guys are just small cogs in a machine. If they're ok taking a smaller salary for nothing more than a one or two year contract, I'd be ok with any of them on the team - all except Lowry. I don't think he has anything left in the tank to help a team. Maybe as a coach if he retires.

[MannyIsGod]

Looking at less sexy moves - the Spurs need an actual backup C behind Wemby and it's clear Collins is not fit for that role.

Ignoring what we'd have to do to dump his salary, who would be a realistic target as Vic's backup in FA? Kornet? Valanuncias? Drummond? slim pickings out there but Spurs need someone who isn't a soft vagina that constantly gets bullied on D and can actually rebound

As much as Collins sucked, this is a very low priority move. A backup 5 is something you need as aa contender and I'm not sold we need to pay money for one instead of just finding the next Eubanks etc. Should not go get one in the free agency market unless its an unknow or low priced player.

[MannyIsGod]

What happens to all these salary increases and team valuations if there is a serious financial downturn in the economy. You have to think that all of the contracts and valuations are built on the assumption that the NBA has an unlimited potential upward in the future. Although there is no comparison between the professional sports leagues when the last real depression occurred and their place in society today, a massive financial downturn is going to affect all entertainment venues and the revenues available to pay these astronomical salaries. Think about the huge contract given to Madonna back in the day, based upon some recording company's prediction of her continuing value as a performer. (Some of you may say, "ERuh...Madonna who?") Does anyone know if the standard NBA contract allows for downward corrections in pay if the economy goes south?

Remember when the housing market casued the NBA salaries and revenue to tank in 2008? Me either. If we have a financial downturn that causes the NBA CBA to change then we're all fucked.

[exstatic]

Another non-shooting forward is exactly what we need.

We need defense. That’s our #1 weakness, and the bench is one of the primary reasons. If you can get a guy who can defend and switch, rebound, and playmake for a reasonable price, you do it.

Our 3 point shooting as slightly below the league player average at 34.6%. Our defense was historically bad.

[scott]

As much as Collins sucked, this is a very low priority move. A backup 5 is something you need as aa contender and I'm not sold we need to pay money for one instead of just finding the next Eubanks etc. Should not go get one in the free agency market unless its an unknow or low priced player.

Exactly. You're already on the hook for Collins at $17MM, and it will cost to dump him. He isn't really preventing us from doing anything - but he should be a practical prevention from spending much on yet another backup C. Gonna have to roll dirty with Zach this season - it's not like we're a backup big away from anything except maybe the 6th worst record instead of the 5th worst.

[LeBowen]

We need defense. That’s our #1 weakness, and the bench is one of the primary reasons. If you can get a guy who can defend and switch, rebound, and playmake for a reasonable price, you do it.

We need both shooting and defense. Getting good two-way players isn't easy, but that doesn't mean we should settle for a non-factors on offense.
Bench defense won't improve as long as Collins is getting minutes. He needs to go. I don't care how. If PATFO wants to compete next season, Collins can't be in the rotation, no matter what.


Our 3 point shooting as slightly below the league player average at 34.6%. Our defense was historically bad.

34.6% was good for 28th place if we talk 3pt team percentage across the league.
11th in attempts, so it's not like we're not shooting, it's just that our roster is horrible at it.

I'm all for some defensive upgrades, but at least get someone who has something that resembles a shot and not SlowMo.

[exstatic]

We need both shooting and defense. Getting good two-way players isn't easy, but that doesn't mean we should settle for a non-factors on offense.
Bench defense won't improve as long as Collins is getting minutes. He needs to go. I don't care how. If PATFO wants to compete next season, Collins can't be in the rotation, no matter what.



34.6% was good for 28th place if we talk 3pt team percentage across the league.
11th in attempts, so it's not like we're not shooting, it's just that our roster is horrible at it.

I'm all for some defensive upgrades, but at least get someone who has something that resembles a shot and not SlowMo.

When you’re filling out your roster, two way players aren’t always available at reasonable cost, or in a given FA class. KA’s lack a long ball does NOT make him a non-factor on offense. He literally does everything else. It’s lazy analysis, like posters who say that Castle lack offense. No.he lacks a three point shot,but literally has the rest of the offensive bag. Kyle, at 6’9” with a 7’3” wingspan can also shuttle between big wing and center on defense.

[LeBowen]

When you’re filling out your roster, two way players aren’t always available at reasonable cost, or in a given FA class. KA’s lack a long ball does NOT make him a non-factor on offense. He literally does everything else.

Are we watching the same playoffs? He was completely useless against Denver in three straight losses, only for Wolves to win both G6 and G7 when his role was reduced to bare minimum.
There's a long way between current Spurs and playoff basketball, but still.


It’s lazy analysis, like posters who say that Castle lack offense. No.he lacks a three point shot,but literally has the rest of the offensive bag. Kyle, at 6’9” with a 7’3” wingspan can also shuttle between big wing and center on defense.

The thing is that you can have just one of those players on the floor in modern NBA.
We already have Jeremy, PATFO seems to be high on Castle and you'd also want to add SlowMo? Way to make Wemby's life even more difficult.

As we agreed, this roster is horrible at both defense and shooting. But I don't think improving one of those while making the other one even worse is the way to go.

Achiuwa, Oubre, Okoro, Highsmith, Patrick Williams, KBD, Prince, O'Neale, DJJ would be the list of free agent forwards that shouldn't be too expensive and would provide something for the team.
I see no point in going back to 32 year old SlowMo who shares flaws with most of our roster.

[RC_Drunkford]

typical spurstalk shtick, being in love with players who can't shoot. Some of y'all would build a 15 player roster with no 3-point shooters at all "b-b-b-but they are good people and play the right way" :lol

[MannyIsGod]

We need defense. That’s our #1 weakness, and the bench is one of the primary reasons. If you can get a guy who can defend and switch, rebound, and playmake for a reasonable price, you do it.

Our 3 point shooting as slightly below the league player average at 34.6%. Our defense was historically bad.

We talking about the same Kyle Anderson I've watched get torched in this series?

[scott]

typical spurstalk shtick, being in love with players who can't shoot. Some of y'all would build a 15 player roster with no 3-point shooters at all "b-b-b-but they are good people and play the right way" :lol

BuT ToNy PaRkEr blah blah blah

[spurraider21]

We need defense. That’s our #1 weakness, and the bench is one of the primary reasons. If you can get a guy who can defend and switch, rebound, and playmake for a reasonable price, you do it.

Our 3 point shooting as slightly below the league player average at 34.6%. Our defense was historically bad.
Slightly below average is a very weird way to describe being #28 out of 30

[Duncan2177]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7sLvRGCB3Y


Go get him Wright

[Knoxxx]

Do we really want to commit 4 years $163 million to Garland. A 6 foot 1 point guard, amid lots of belly aching about short PGs prospects such as Sheppard or Dilly?

[Mr. Body]

typical spurstalk shtick, being in love with players who can't shoot. Some of y'all would build a 15 player roster with no 3-point shooters at all "b-b-b-but they are good people and play the right way" :lol

So let's draft Dillingham.

"nO hE tOO smAll canT pLaY dFeanse"

[RC_Drunkford]

Do we really want to commit 4 years $163 million to Garland. A 6 foot 1 point guard, amid lots of belly aching about short PGs prospects such as Sheppard or Dilly?

I got mixed feelings. The salary is not really an issue to me, but Dillingham could be the same caliber of player. And do you want to give up the CHI pick which has a good chance of converting in a loaded draft class? It depends on how much we’d have to pay asset wise

[Mr. Body]

I got mixed feelings. The salary is not really an issue to me, but Dillingham could be the same caliber of player. And do you want to give up the CHI pick which has a good chance of converting in a loaded draft class? It depends on how much we’d have to pay asset wise

To me, if you want Garland, just get Dillingham.

[tbdog]

https://x.com/LegionHoops/status/1795218221898903593

Keldon rumor

[buttsR4rebounding]

https://x.com/LegionHoops/status/1795218221898903593

Keldon rumor

Wow. Pretty incredible reporting. The Spurs are willing to hear offers for Keldon. He's gone. Thanks Keldon....

[NASpurs]

Some dude in the comments said "Denver Nuggets"... I thought about it and I can see that. Don't know what we would get back but Keldon would be a great fit there.

[LeBowen]

Some dude in the comments said "Denver Nuggets"... I thought about it and I can see that. Don't know what we would get back but Keldon would be a great fit there.

It will be interesting to see if they move on from MPJ.
His contract just kills Denver's flexibility, I'm sure they'd trade him for some quality role players on team-friendly deals.
Tbh, I wouldn't mind Spurs taking his contract, he'd be great for us with his size and shooting, despite being overpaid. And his contract ends when Wemby's extension kicks in.

But then again, I just can't see why would Denver want Keldon, they need more defense and consistent shooting. He offers neither.

[NASpurs]

It will be interesting to see if they move on from MPJ.
His contract just kills Denver's flexibility, I'm sure they'd trade him for some quality role players on team-friendly deals.
Tbh, I wouldn't mind Spurs taking his contract, he'd be great for us with his size and shooting, despite being overpaid. And his contract ends when Wemby's extension kicks in.

But then again, I just can't see why would Denver want Keldon, they need more defense and consistent shooting. He offers neither.

So why do we have a 6'5" power forward who's neither good at defense or shooting? :lol Can't wait to pair him up with 6'1', 165 lb Dillingham and the traffic cone that is Zach Collins.

[montgod]

It will be interesting to see if they move on from MPJ.
His contract just kills Denver's flexibility, I'm sure they'd trade him for some quality role players on team-friendly deals.
Tbh, I wouldn't mind Spurs taking his contract, he'd be great for us with his size and shooting, despite being overpaid. And his contract ends when Wemby's extension kicks in.

But then again, I just can't see why would Denver want Keldon, they need more defense and consistent shooting. He offers neither.

Agreed, they'd be more likely to go and trade with TOR to get Brown back

[Mr. Body]

I've thought for a while that Keldon would do well in Denver. He's a great finisher and can be an outside threat. He'd be a great target for Jokic. Problem is he makes $20 million a year (declining) and they don't have the piece for that. I guess it's getting off MPJ but his contract is rough and I don't see the Spurs wanting any part of that.

[LeBowen]

So why do we have a 6'5" power forward who's neither good at defense or shooting? :lol Can't wait to pair him up with 6'1', 165 lb Dillingham and the traffic cone that is Zach Collins.

Because he's a great guy and does wonders for the culture!
I've said it many times, Keldon must be traded this summer before everyone realizes he's a negative asset. If Spurs can get a FRP for him, do it.
And if we're to compete, Collins can't be in the rotation.


Agreed, they'd be more likely to go and trade with TOR to get Brown back

Agreed.
Still, if they're naive enough to think Keldon would be a positive contributor for them, I'd be fine with Keldon+Tre package for MPJ.
Won't happen, but one can dream.


I've thought for a while that Keldon would do well in Denver. He's a great finisher and can be an outside threat. He'd be a great target for Jokic. Problem is he makes $20 million a year (declining) and they don't have the piece for that. I guess it's getting off MPJ but his contract is rough and I don't see the Spurs wanting any part of that.

It's not rough since it ends before Wemby's extension kicks in and Devin's contract is declining each year with cap going up.
Devin-Jeremy-MPJ-Wemby does look like a nice lineup if Spurs can find a good point guard to run it.

[RC_Drunkford]

MPJ would be a great addition tbh. Mainly because he only averages 13 FGAs over there. Give him more touches and he'd look like an All-Star on our team.

[Mr. Body]

It's not rough since it ends before Wemby's extension kicks in and Devin's contract is declining each year with cap going up.
Devin-Jeremy-MPJ-Wemby does look like a nice lineup if Spurs can find a good point guard to run it.

Oh, I don't think there's any chance the Spurs want MPJ. That contract is awful compared to what he does. I don't even think they'd spend that much for a needed multi-dimensional player like Garland.

Meant more about how a team like Orlando might absorb him, a team that's moving into playoff contention and needs outside scoring.

[Spurs9]

MPJ would be a great addition tbh. Mainly because he only averages 13 FGAs over there. Give him more touches and he'd look like an All-Star on our team.
I'd like that addition

[LeBowen]

Oh, I don't think there's any chance the Spurs want MPJ. That contract is awful compared to what he does. I don't even think they'd spend that much for a needed multi-dimensional player like Garland.

That's the entire point. If he was on 20 million a year instead of 35, Nuggets would never consider moving him.
He's low IQ, offers no playmaking whatsoever, but he's a 6'10 high volume 3pt shooter and a very good rebounder.
Not a great defender, but having Wemby behind him instead of Jokic would make a massive difference.

If Denver wants to get rid of his contract, Spurs should seriously consider it. It's not like there are many better options.
I feel like most peolpe in here want legit superstars while keeping all the picks. Won't happen.

[Mr. Body]

That's the entire point. If he was on 20 million a year instead of 35, Nuggets would never consider moving him.
He's low IQ, offers no playmaking whatsoever, but he's a 6'10 high volume 3pt shooter and a very good rebounder.
Not a great defender, but having Wemby behind him instead of Jokic would make a massive difference.

If Denver wants to get rid of his contract, Spurs should seriously consider it. It's not like there are many better options.
I feel like most peolpe in here want legit superstars while keeping all the picks. Won't happen.

Yes, I see that last year isn't fully guaranteed. I think I'd still rather keep those funds clean in case a real possibility comes thru, but I guess his contract could be used for that, too. Overall, I'd want assets to absorb his contract more than anything and I'm not sure that's happening.

[exstatic]

https://x.com/LegionHoops/status/1795218221898903593

Keldon rumor

That’s a re-tweet of a guy who thought Houston won last years draft with Amen and Cam. Did either of them win ROTY? First team All D? Get All NBA votes?

I think we know who won last years draft.

[exstatic]

It will be interesting to see if they move on from MPJ.
His contract just kills Denver's flexibility, I'm sure they'd trade him for some quality role players on team-friendly deals.
Tbh, I wouldn't mind Spurs taking his contract, he'd be great for us with his size and shooting, despite being overpaid. And his contract ends when Wemby's extension kicks in.

But then again, I just can't see why would Denver want Keldon, they need more defense and consistent shooting. He offers neither.

If you go back and watch the 17 points in 3 minutes barrage by Wemby, it was mainly fueled by, missed wide open 3s from MPJ. I hate his health history, and the fact that once the ball touches him, it never comes out again. There was a video out a year or two ago with just Denver teammates shooting WTF looks at him when he didn’t make the easy obvious pass for a bunny layup or dunk.

[LeBowen]

If you go back and watch the 17 points in 3 minutes barrage by Wemby, it was mainly fueled by, missed wide open 3s from MPJ. I hate his health history, and the fact that once the ball touches him, it never comes out again. There was a video out a year or two ago with just Denver teammates shooting WTF looks at him when he didn’t make the easy obvious pass for a bunny layup or dunk.

As I said, he's a low IQ player, but I wouldn't take anything that happened over the past few months again him.
It's amazing that he even decided to play considering all the awful stuff happening with his family. Everyone would be affected.

When KD asked for a trade from Brooklyn, I thought Denver should offer Murray+MPJ, but then they won a championship.
Now it looks like MPJ has to go so they can get some depth.

We won't get a legit all-star player without giving up a lot of picks, might aswell take a chance on some of these players with question marks while Wemby is still on his rookie deal.
MPJ was the third option on a championship winning team and is about to turn 26. If Denver's asking price is just Keldon+Tre and let's say one average FRP, I'd do it.

[Devi8or]

I got mixed feelings. The salary is not really an issue to me, but Dillingham could be the same caliber of player. And do you want to give up the CHI pick which has a good chance of converting in a loaded draft class? It depends on how much we’d have to pay asset wise

I'm in the same boat here. The only thing that leans me to Garland is you know what he brings to the team, Dilly COULD be Garland. So I guess it'll really depend on if the FO would rather gamble with the money or the draft pick. I guess realistically the safer bet would be drafting dillingham. If he turns out to be a bust, they have lots of picks to cover their asses later.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/RunItBackFDTV/status/1795464232038752734

[scott]

Side note - I think we can fully put to rest the far-flung fever dream of Luka demanding out of Dallas and specifically requesting to be traded to the Spurs. Actual, real people wanted to base an entire long-term roster construction philosophy around this fantasy.

[Dejounte]

Side note - I think we can fully put to rest the far-flung fever dream of Luka demanding out of Dallas and specifically requesting to be traded to the Spurs. Actual, real people wanted to base an entire long-term roster construction philosophy around this fantasy.

Yeah, that was nonsense.” Don’t sign or trade for anyone like Trae Young or Murray because Doncic will want to sign here!” Sheesh

[ace3g]

Chris Herring, ESPN Senior Writer
May 28, 2024, 08:00 AM ET

NBA free agency 2024: 10 blockbuster trades, deals that need to happen this offseason

San Antonio Spurs trade for Darius Garland
One of the bigger questions for the future of the league centers on the San Antonio Spurs, and who will ultimately serve as soon-to-be superstar Victor Wembanyama's floor general.

Garland, still just 24 years old, could be a great fit despite his down season. It's fair to wonder whether he's best utilized sharing the ball so much with another star guard in Donovan Mitchell, and whether Cleveland's spacing on offense was ideal by having both Evan Mobley and Jarrett Allen on the floor together. (It wouldn't be surprising if the Cavs, facing those same questions as they try to convince Mitchell to sign an extension, seek to move Garland and/or Allen.)

Should the Spurs deal for Garland, they'd be banking on him not only making life easier for Wembanyama, but also on a return to form for the one-time All-Star as he generates more ballhandling opportunities. To his credit, Garland performed far better after returning from a 19-game absence that stemmed from a fractured jaw, hitting 84 triples -- 10th best in the NBA -- after the All-Star break. He connected on almost 40% of his tries from deep in that span.

Even with Garland playing in just 57 contests, he managed to rank 10th in the league with 58 passes directly into the restricted area. For context, Spurs guard Tre Jones, despite playing in 20 more games than Garland, finished the season with 37 such passes. Garland's added experience with manipulating defenses as a lead ball handler would help San Antonio.

All that said, the Spurs would need to maneuver some in order to take on Garland's deal. San Antonio has about $20 million in cap room this summer, meaning it might need to move someone like backup center Zach Collins -- who's set to make an average of $18 million over the next two seasons -- in order to absorb Garland's hefty salary.

https://x.com/espn/status/1795535235343405242

[SpursFan86]

We need defense. That’s our #1 weakness, and the bench is one of the primary reasons. If you can get a guy who can defend and switch, rebound, and playmake for a reasonable price, you do it.

Our 3 point shooting as slightly below the league player average at 34.6%. Our defense was historically bad.

I mean this is just factually incorrect. We had the 22nd ranked defense this year…how is that historically bad? :lol I’m also almost positive that if you just look at things post-ASB we were in that 15-20 range but I can’t find the stat to back it up.

Meanwhile we were 3rd last in terms of 3P%…and it’s even worse when you factor in how many wide open looks we’re getting from all of the attention Wemby gets. I would be very interested to see our 3P% on wide open looks relative to the rest of the league.

Overall I don’t disagree with the notion that our defense is a weakness, especially when VW sits. But I pretty strongly disagree that it’s our #1 weakness. 3-point shooting and having a consistent ball-handler who can break down defenses and create for others are both bigger concerns.

[RC_Drunkford]

That's the entire point. If he was on 20 million a year instead of 35, Nuggets would never consider moving him.
He's low IQ, offers no playmaking whatsoever, but he's a 6'10 high volume 3pt shooter and a very good rebounder.
Not a great defender, but having Wemby behind him instead of Jokic would make a massive difference.

If Denver wants to get rid of his contract, Spurs should seriously consider it. It's not like there are many better options.
I feel like most peolpe in here want legit superstars while keeping all the picks. Won't happen.

there are other ways to trade for star players, which is identifying players with that capability who are used as 3rd options with less usage or who are about to up their game to star levels. Houston often trades for these type of players (OKC Harden to name one). This would be such a case.

[RC_Drunkford]

so Manu said that the Spurs hope to be contending in 2-3 years


https://streamable.com/7201h1

[rjv]

so Manu said that the Spurs hope to be contending in 2-3 years


https://streamable.com/7201h1

manu has spoken; it is the law.

[scott]

so Manu said that the Spurs hope to be contending in 2-3 years


https://streamable.com/7201h1

Glad to hear this kind of thing from someone actually associated with the Spurs. I'm not sure exactly what kind of access "Special Advisor to Basketball Operations" actually has - but I just assume that Manu is connected with the FO at a high level and when he says this it's not just his personal opinion but the goals of the organization.

So, with that said... it would seem logically that the team would be looking for a similar trajectory that OKC and Minn have recently taken:

OKC:

2021-22 - bottom 4 record
2022-23 - play-in
2023-24 - top seed (I would consider this as being "a contender") / semifinals loss in 6

MIN:

2020-21: bottom 6 record but only 1 game removed from a bottom 4 record
2021-22: first round playoff loss (via #7 seed/play-in)
2022-23: first round playoff loss (via #8 seed/play-in)
2023-24: WCF (and very much "a contender")

If we are to believe Manu, then it should be clear that tanking is not the intention next season (of course this won't stop folks from claiming we are tanking if the season doesn't go as planned, much like this year)

[SpursFan86]

Is it really news that we’re “planning to contend” in 2-3 years? Obviously we’re not going to be competing this upcoming season, and 4+ years would be an ultra conservative timeline.

“Yeah we probably won’t be too competitive until 2027 despite drafting one of the greatest prospects of all time and watching him put up an all-time great rookie season”. :lol He also clarifies that by contending he’s just saying they’ll make the playoffs and be a generally good team.

[NASpurs]

*wrong thread *

:lol

[BackHome]

Glad to hear this kind of thing from someone actually associated with the Spurs. I'm not sure exactly what kind of access "Special Advisor to Basketball Operations" actually has - but I just assume that Manu is connected with the FO at a high level and when he says this it's not just his personal opinion but the goals of the organization.

So, with that said... it would seem logically that the team would be looking for a similar trajectory that OKC and Minn have recently taken:

OKC:

2021-22 - bottom 4 record
2022-23 - play-in
2023-24 - top seed (I would consider this as being "a contender") / semifinals loss in 6

MIN:

2020-21: bottom 6 record but only 1 game removed from a bottom 4 record
2021-22: first round playoff loss (via #7 seed/play-in)
2022-23: first round playoff loss (via #8 seed/play-in)
2023-24: WCF (and very much "a contender")

If we are to believe Manu, then it should be clear that tanking is not the intention next season (of course this won't stop folks from claiming we are tanking if the season doesn't go as planned, much like this year)

Same people were saying last draft "Oh We Got Wemby We Playoff Bound" and I said "NOPE" we tanking bound and people said no way that was going to happen with a generational player like Wemby. People need to understand we got the number 1 pick because we suck and it is going to take more then a year to turn the ship around....It's a team game you need more then one person

[mo7888]

so Manu said that the Spurs hope to be contending in 2-3 years


https://streamable.com/7201h1

This gives me vibes that the Spurs already know what they're going to do this summer....Like deals are already in place..

[scott]

Looks like Hayward definitely won't be returning to OKC: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40236013/thunder-gm-sam-presti-says-missed-gordon-hayward-trade

Does he have anything left? His time in OKC may have the result of depressing his going rate as he hits FA. I've long thought he would be a good vet to add at SF, especially if by chance Keldon gets sent out and and we have a rookie SF to play heavy minutes. He was still putting up decent stats in CHA before he got injured and then traded to OKC.

From the article:

"I feel as a player, I have a lot to offer," said Hayward, who will be a free agent this summer. "Just wasn't really given much of an opportunity to do that. I thought I would be given that opportunity."

[CGD]

Looks like Hayward definitely won't be returning to OKC: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40236013/thunder-gm-sam-presti-says-missed-gordon-hayward-trade

Does he have anything left? His time in OKC may have the result of depressing his going rate as he hits FA. I've long thought he would be a good vet to add at SF, especially if by chance Keldon gets sent out and and we have a rookie SF to play heavy minutes. He was still putting up decent stats in CHA before he got injured and then traded to OKC.

From the article:

"I feel as a player, I have a lot to offer," said Hayward, who will be a free agent this summer. "Just wasn't really given much of an opportunity to do that. I thought I would be given that opportunity."

He was given the chance and wet the bed. He doesnt have it any more.

[NASpurs]

Looks like Hayward definitely won't be returning to OKC: https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40236013/thunder-gm-sam-presti-says-missed-gordon-hayward-trade

Does he have anything left? His time in OKC may have the result of depressing his going rate as he hits FA. I've long thought he would be a good vet to add at SF, especially if by chance Keldon gets sent out and and we have a rookie SF to play heavy minutes. He was still putting up decent stats in CHA before he got injured and then traded to OKC.

From the article:

"I feel as a player, I have a lot to offer," said Hayward, who will be a free agent this summer. "Just wasn't really given much of an opportunity to do that. I thought I would be given that opportunity."

Reads like the death throes for one final paycheck.

But yeah, if not for the minimum, why not?

[exstatic]

Since he left Utah, he’s played >70 games one time in 7 seasons. He’s averaged <50 games since then. No Thanks.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/esidery/status/1795570480503796201

[exstatic]

https://x.com/esidery/status/1795570480503796201

They’re not pulling an All Star with even the first pick in this draft, let alone #3.

[Mr. Body]

Rumors are that the Nets will get their own #3 pick back as part of a Bridges trade after all. Otherwise, I don't see anyone trading all the way up for the #3. A team in the lottery could try to leapfrog Detroit, SAS, etc., if they see someone they want.

As for who BKN would take, it's the same sort of player WAS or DET should take but will probably overthink: the guy who has star upside who can become the next Maxey or De'Aaron Fox.

[RC_Drunkford]

https://x.com/esidery/status/1795570480503796201

Houston doing dumb shit per par is nothing new. Curious to see who trades for it though, they might take another player we want off the board.

[spurraider21]

not sure what the entirety of a bridges trade would look like, but its one of the moves that could make sense

[LeBowen]

Houston doing dumb shit per par is nothing new. Curious to see who trades for it though, they might take another player we want off the board.

Tbh, it's not that dumb if they get a player they want.
If they don't want any of these PGs, they have no use for that pick.
They're going forward with Sengun as their C and they have more than enough young wings that need development.

[NASpurs]

Tbh, it's not that dumb if they get a player they want.
If they don't want any of these PGs, they have no use for that pick.
They're going forward with Sengun as their C and they have more than enough young wings that need development.

Yeah we'll be in a similar position soon with the 25 draft picks coming in the next five years or so. You can only develop so many dudes.

[RC_Drunkford]

Tbh, it's not that dumb if they get a player they want.
If they don't want any of these PGs, they have no use for that pick.
They're going forward with Sengun as their C and they have more than enough young wings that need development.

building around a non-rim protecting C like Sengun is idiotic in itself tbh. Making "win now" moves while not even sniffing the play-in is hilarious. Good for us though, as they will be a mediocre 2nd round out of the playoffs team for a long time.

[JPB]

Yeah we'll be in a similar position soon with the 25 draft picks coming in the next five years or so. You can only develop so many dudes.

Indeed, and spurs already are actually, just in a reverse way.

There's no point for HOU adding rookies just for the sake of it, if you already have (or will for the spurs) a bunch of prospects to develop and you don't feel this year"s one will make that big of a difference for you. No reason for HOU to keep #3 if they don't like anybody from here... they're a 41-41 team, rebuilding by the middle with solid, improving prospects. Adding one good vet can get them in the PO without loising that much assets (even if they'd have to add some more to the trade).

If there's one draft to trade your picks, it's this one. Reason why I'd have no problem spurs using this year's ones for proven talent (or for Risacher, which could not be possible) and keep room for 2025 picks to develop.

[Seventyniner]

Houston can get a lot for the #3 pick if Risacher is somehow still on the board.

[Pauleta14]

They’re not pulling an All Star with even the first pick in this draft, let alone #3.

They have plenty of actractive youngsters to add to an offer tho...

[Pauleta14]

Houston doing dumb shit per par is nothing new. Curious to see who trades for it though, they might take another player we want off the board.

They picked a great coach

They draft well

They have a stock of promising youngsters they can use for trade on build on

They have short term heavy contracts that will be attractive as expirings in a trade

I wish you were right, but I find them quite good. Shopping a 3rd pick of a weak draft is smart

Houston is a big and attractive market, they could very well land a big fish

[Pauleta14]

If there's one draft to trade your picks, it's this one. Reason why I'd have no problem spurs using this year's ones for proven talent (or for Risacher, which could not be possible) and keep room for 2025 picks to develop.

The more I think about it the more I think it's the move.

25' and 26' are so stack and the team needs higher bbiq and more experience asap

[RC_Drunkford]

They picked a great coach

They draft well

They have a stock of promising youngsters they can use for trade on build on

They have short term heavy contracts that will be attractive as expirings in a trade

I wish you were right, but I find them quite good. Shopping a 3rd pick of a weak draft is smart

Houston is a big and attractive market, they could very well land a big fish

They can always get big free agents. I'd be much more worried if they went the OKC route tbh. I'm fine with them building around a non-rim protector in Sengun and a non-shooter in Amen. That won't win them a title.

[Pauleta14]

They can always get big free agents. I'd be much more worried if they went the OKC route tbh. I'm fine with them building around a non-rim protector in Sengun and a non-shooter in Amen. That won't win them a title.

I'd guess they're very well aware of that.

Look, all I'm saying is (imo) there isn't one road to success, it's actually interesting to watch both models. Okc is in advance but Houston started their proect last season really with Ime's arrival.

I'm really high on Ime, a team always end up at the image of its coach and you could see after Sengun's injury how the team responded. I have no doubt the rockettes will become one the best defense in the league whoever play and they have the means to bring top players.

I think there's something to take in both models. Patience is a great virtue but a bit of agressiveness or opportunism doesn't hurt.

[scott]

Houston (at least after the first game when Wemby delivered the W in the clutch) seemed to defend Wemby better than anyone... maybe we're overblowing the importance of a rim-protector, at least within the division.

In 4 games versus the Rockets, Wemby averaged 31.4 min, 14.8 pts, 12.8 reb, 3.3 asst, 1.0 stl, 4.3 blks, 41.1% FG, 20.8% 3P.

I don't have Statmuse premium or whatever the fuck they call it, so it cuts off after 25 records, but Wemby definitely had one of the toughest times against Houston. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/victor-wembanyama-vs-every-team

Of course, the Rockets have to play more games than just the Spurs...

[Pauleta14]

Houston (at least after the first game when Wemby delivered the W in the clutch) seemed to defend Wemby better than anyone... maybe we're overblowing the importance of a rim-protector, at least within the division.

In 4 games versus the Rockets, Wemby averaged 31.4 min, 14.8 pts, 12.8 reb, 3.3 asst, 1.0 stl, 4.3 blks, 41.1% FG, 20.8% 3P.

I don't have Statmuse premium or whatever the fuck they call it, so it cuts off after 25 records, but Wemby definitely had one of the toughest times against Houston. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/victor-wembanyama-vs-every-team

Of course, the Rockets have to play more games than just the Spurs...

Ime and Kidd with Dallas are the 2 coaches (as far as I recall) that really understood how to bother Wemby the most.

I think a lot had to do with Victor's inexperience but it's also a blueprint on how to defend him. All the players have to be physical all the time, especially when he doesn't have the ball.

Brooks really slowed/tired him down for ex

I think Victor is more comfortable vs a big 1vs1, he almost relishes it

[MultiTroll]

Houston (at least after the first game when Wemby delivered the W in the clutch) seemed to defend Wemby better than anyone... maybe we're overblowing the importance of a rim-protector, at least within the division.

In 4 games versus the Rockets, Wemby averaged 31.4 min, 14.8 pts, 12.8 reb, 3.3 asst, 1.0 stl, 4.3 blks, 41.1% FG, 20.8% 3P.

I don't have Statmuse premium or whatever the fuck they call it, so it cuts off after 25 records, but Wemby definitely had one of the toughest times against Houston. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/victor-wembanyama-vs-every-team

Of course, the Rockets have to play more games than just the Spurs...
scott
bringing the goods. :toast

[tonight...you]

Ime and Kidd with Dallas are the 2 coaches (as far as I recall) that really understood how to bother Wemby the most.

I think a lot had to do with Victor's inexperience but it's also a blueprint on how to defend him. All the players have to be physical all the time, especially when he doesn't have the ball.

Brooks really slowed/tired him down for ex

I think Victor is more comfortable vs a big 1vs1, he almost relishes it
Of all the teams this season, the Rockets brought the most trouble to Victor imo with their gameplan.

[RC_Drunkford]

I'd guess they're very well aware of that.

Look, all I'm saying is (imo) there isn't one road to success, it's actually interesting to watch both models. Okc is in advance but Houston started their proect last season really with Ime's arrival.

I'm really high on Ime, a team always end up at the image of its coach and you could see after Sengun's injury how the team responded. I have no doubt the rockettes will become one the best defense in the league whoever play and they have the means to bring top players.

I think there's something to take in both models. Patience is a great virtue but a bit of agressiveness or opportunism doesn't hurt.

Ime is one of the best and he'd outcoach Pop everytime. It's just that the Rockets owner is rushing the process. They'll probably try to build through free agency/trades instead of drafting, I just don't see how they could become a real contender, but we'll see.

[scott]

Ime is one of the best and he'd outcoach Pop everytime. It's just that the Rockets owner is rushing the process. They'll probably try to build through free agency/trades instead of drafting, I just don't see how they could become a real contender, but we'll see.

I'd say they've done a pretty good job of building through the draft and are now supplementing that with vet talent.

Guys on their squad who they drafted:

Amen
Whitmore
Jabari
Eason
Sengun
Jalen Green

It's odd to me that Houston gets flack on this board for "only" being a .500 team, who missed the play-in in a difficult West. If the Spurs went .500 this year, we'll have significantly overachieved.

Rockets are going about this pretty smart. They have one drastically overpriced guy, on a short term deal while the rest of their core is on a rookie deal. Brooks contract is a little bit of an overpay, but is a declining deal.

[playbonner15]

I'd say they've done a pretty good job of building through the draft and are now supplementing that with vet talent.

Guys on their squad who they drafted:

Amen
Whitmore
Jabari
Eason
Sengun
Jalen Green

It's odd to me that Houston gets flack on this board for "only" being a .500 team, who missed the play-in in a difficult West. If the Spurs went .500 this year, we'll have significantly overachieved.

Rockets are going about this pretty smart. They have one drastically overpriced guy, on a short term deal while the rest of their core is on a rookie deal. Brooks contract is a little bit of an overpay, but is a declining deal.

Agree. Rockets are in a good position to compete next season. I think Rockets and OKC are the 2 upcoming young teams to watch

[JPB]

Agree. Rockets are in a good position to compete next season. I think Rockets and OKC are the 2 upcoming young teams to watch

Imagine on top of doing a pretty good job buidling a young core and getting a good coach, they lucked into Wemby instead of Amen...

(And imagine us).

[CGD]

They’re not pulling an All Star with even the first pick in this draft, let alone #3.

No, but Green + 3 is compelling

[tbdog]

I'd say they've done a pretty good job of building through the draft and are now supplementing that with vet talent.

Guys on their squad who they drafted:

Amen
Whitmore
Jabari
Eason
Sengun
Jalen Green

It's odd to me that Houston gets flack on this board for "only" being a .500 team, who missed the play-in in a difficult West. If the Spurs went .500 this year, we'll have significantly overachieved.

Rockets are going about this pretty smart. They have one drastically overpriced guy, on a short term deal while the rest of their core is on a rookie deal. Brooks contract is a little bit of an overpay, but is a declining deal.

You could argue that they spent money to get to the playoffs and failed. They got 3rd pick because nets really stunk it up and their future looks weak.

[exstatic]

No, but Green + 3 is compelling

In his whole career, Green had like two months where he didn’t look like an idiot.

[dbestpro]

Not buying Rockets till they got that go to guy x2.

[Mr. Body]

You could argue that they spent money to get to the playoffs and failed. They got 3rd pick because nets really stunk it up and their future looks weak.

FVV and Brooks gave them structure and competent veterans as support, but they also have a ton of high draft picks on their roster. I would say the year was a success generally as they established a defensive identity and direction overall. They have a lot of pieces but I'm not entirely convinced. For example, I don't think they have replacements for those two vets when the time comes and every young player they have comes with significant question marks. Each seems to play a certain style best and those styles don't necessarily mesh. And then Amen, Jabari, Jalen, who are very high lotto picks, are probably not going to be stars.

[Pauleta14]

Ime is one of the best and he'd outcoach Pop everytime. It's just that the Rockets owner is rushing the process. They'll probably try to build through free agency/trades instead of drafting, I just don't see how they could become a real contender, but we'll see.

I think they've drafted enough no?^^ (they have almost too many promising younsgters and will have to sacrifice some) + Evey team/franchise does with the context/environment they have.

Houston is a huge city and much more attractive for players (and they wives & kids, often key in a player's decision) than SA will ever be. They have more expectations and less time to build than OKC or SA who have more patient fans.

I've read all season some of the oldest STers shit on them and trust me I wished I agreed, but AS OF NOW they're imo in a great position to be a contender in 1-2 seasons. Much more advanced than the Spurs for ex.

But I insist on the importance of the coach, it all starts with him as long as the FO lets him work (which is the case).

Those are not the same old rockettes

I wish we/Wemby had Ime so much

[Das Texan]

Houston (at least after the first game when Wemby delivered the W in the clutch) seemed to defend Wemby better than anyone... maybe we're overblowing the importance of a rim-protector, at least within the division.

In 4 games versus the Rockets, Wemby averaged 31.4 min, 14.8 pts, 12.8 reb, 3.3 asst, 1.0 stl, 4.3 blks, 41.1% FG, 20.8% 3P.

I don't have Statmuse premium or whatever the fuck they call it, so it cuts off after 25 records, but Wemby definitely had one of the toughest times against Houston. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/victor-wembanyama-vs-every-team

Of course, the Rockets have to play more games than just the Spurs...

Spurs get better players around Wemby and this type of defense gets exposed drastically. That defense works because the supporting cast around Victor was well, not really good last year.

[rjv]

Spurs get better players around Wemby and this type of defense gets exposed drastically. That defense works because the supporting cast around Victor was well, not really good last year.

in the December game, the Rockets just sent double and triple teams towards Wemby who found his open teammates; they just didn't knock them down. The Sengun 40 point game against Wemby was the game in which he reinjured his ankle right before halftime. He came back but only scored two points from then on and looked out of sorts.

[Degoat]

Question for ST, I know we don’t want to blow our load… but are we being too greedy with our picks? The fact that we could trade our picks without trading ATLs pick for a star or vice versa trading ATLs picks without trading our own is pretty enticing.

[exstatic]

Question for ST, I know we don’t want to blow our load… but are we being too greedy with our picks? The fact that we could trade our picks without trading ATLs pick for a star or vice versa trading ATLs picks without trading our own is pretty enticing.

The picks we have that aren’t ATL’s are the two this year, plus CHI, and the FRP ( likely two seconds) from CHA. All those COMBINED might get you a starter. You’re not pulling a star, though. No way,no day.

[mo7888]

The picks we have that aren’t ATL’s are the two this year, plus CHI, and the FRP ( likely two seconds) from CHA. All those COMBINED might get you a starter. You’re not pulling a star, though. No way,no day.

I think he's referring to the Spurs own picks 2025-2028..

[LeBowen]

Unless PATFO drafts two forwards and keeps Keldon, we're going to need a quality starter at forward position.
What's everyone's take on the situation?

Free agents:
Achiuwa - can't shoot, but he's done great in NY and could be Wemby's backup at C.
Crowder - I hope not.
Okoro - I was high on him, but his shot disappeared in the playoffs.
Toppin - would be a solid bench forward, not good enough to start.
Harris - ugh, no.
Oubre - I wouldn't mind him, he was great in the playoffs. But I don't think Pop would take a player who didn't get over himself.
Batum - I guess he could be an option if we need two forwards and Wemby can convince him to play one more season.
Highsmith - could be a solid bench option. Solid defender, but much like Okoro his shot disappeared in the playoffs.
Patrick Williams - would be a solid choice if the price is right. Didn't develop as expected, but he still hasn't turned 23.
Hayward - washed.
SlowMo - can't afford any more non-shooters.
Jones Jr - would be great if we could take him from Mavs, he's been amazing for them.
O'Neale - looks somewhat washed.
Prince - would be a solid bench option.

I didn't include Demar, Siakam and OG that will most likely stay with their teams.

As far as forwards that could be available for trade go, it's too early to tell.
Obviously Bridges, Cam Johnson and DFS are available for the right price. But what's the right price according to the Nets?
There's Markkanen and Ainge's ridiculous asking price that's not worth bothering with.
I wouldn't mind MPJ if Denver decides they need more depth and he's too expensive.
We'll see how NOLA situation plays out, Ingram is most likely the one that has to go. Never liked him as a player.
Kings are looking to move from Barnes, he'd be a solid veteran for us. Idk about their asking price.
Portland needs to move Grant, but his contract runs all the way up to 2028, not worth it.
Some others will surely become available.

[Knoxxx]

The picks we have that aren’t ATL’s are the two this year, plus CHI, and the FRP ( likely two seconds) from CHA. All those COMBINED might get you a starter. You’re not pulling a star, though. No way,no day.

Ding ding we have a winner! The problem is the draft is a crap shoot. Thus, teams with a bird in hand (star player), want 3 or more FRPs, your first and second born, and two players averaging 15+ points a game in a trade. If they are even willing to trade, which usually only happens because said star throws a fit and demands it. From that view, the star may be a head case to begin, or in our case that PLUS a chronic injury. In other words, no star worth having is likely to agree to this. Only the Wemby factor may change that, we will see sooner or later about that.

Ruling out that possibility, we are looking at packaging players we don't want (Collins/Keldon) and fewer picks for a high-priced player that may not be substantially better than Keldon actually. A grass is greener player, who looks better on the other team then they look on your own. Keldon is probably a grasses greener player, but at least he has a team friendly contract and 16-17 PPG off the bench is actually quite good. But if we end up with a player such as Knecht, it could make sense to deal Keldon and use Knecht as an even cheaper replacement.

All that being said, having 1-2 FRPs each year is a good problem to have with regard to salary cap management. The Spurs can cultivate prospects, then look to trade them off before they command a $30-$40 million average salary extension or more, which is sadly what relatively average or slightly better NBA players get these days. For example, Sochan may not be going anywhere but many would say unload him rather than pay him. On the flip side, players such as Branham and Wesley are looking less and less likely to pan out, but the market for them may not move the needle any either.

Long story short, it's complicated! Salaries are horrible, like how the housing market has gone bananas and other inflationary type challenges. Compounding that, the 2025 and 2026 drafts are great, so we really don't want to give up any picks from those drafts.

Thus, we are left with minor strategies like overpaying for Garland, acquiring Monk, and/or just continuing to draft and bring in players and keep our fingers crossed and eyes open.

[Knoxxx]

Unless PATFO drafts two forwards and keeps Keldon, we're going to need a quality starter at forward position.
What's everyone's take on the situation?

Free agents:
Achiuwa - can't shoot, but he's done great in NY and could be Wemby's backup at C.
Crowder - I hope not.
Okoro - I was high on him, but his shot disappeared in the playoffs.
Toppin - would be a solid bench forward, not good enough to start.
Harris - ugh, no.
Oubre - I wouldn't mind him, he was great in the playoffs. But I don't think Pop would take a player who didn't get over himself.
Batum - I guess he could be an option if we need two forwards and Wemby can convince him to play one more season.
Highsmith - could be a solid bench option. Solid defender, but much like Okoro his shot disappeared in the playoffs.
Patrick Williams - would be a solid choice if the price is right. Didn't develop as expected, but he still hasn't turned 23.
Hayward - washed.
SlowMo - can't afford any more non-shooters.
Jones Jr - would be great if we could take him from Mavs, he's been amazing for them.
O'Neale - looks somewhat washed.
Prince - would be a solid bench option.

I didn't include Demar, Siakam and OG that will most likely stay with their teams.

As far as forwards that could be available for trade go, it's too early to tell.
Obviously Bridges, Cam Johnson and DFS are available for the right price. But what's the right price according to the Nets?
There's Markkanen and Ainge's ridiculous asking price that's not worth bothering with.
I wouldn't mind MPJ if Denver decides they need more depth and he's too expensive.
We'll see how NOLA situation plays out, Ingram is most likely the one that has to go. Never liked him as a player.
Kings are looking to move from Barnes, he'd be a solid veteran for us. Idk about their asking price.
Portland needs to move Grant, but his contract runs all the way up to 2028, not worth it.
Some others will surely become available.

That was a lot to read through, only to learn that there are 2-3 FA forwards at best that are maybe worth looking into.

I'd rather take a Willaims or Buzelis in this draft. If needed, more of a true PF next draft. Also I think we should mention Barlow in this discussion, since he is only 20 and has pretty strong SF/PF potential, similar to Buzelis.

Based off your list, I think you are mainly just looking at SFs, while we need to be looking at PFs also at some point.

[Degoat]

Yeah to the above responses I’m referring to our own picks and ATLs pick (not including those protected picks or even the swaps)

We can absolutely trade ATLs picks for a star player without trading our own or vice versa. The problem being is the correct Star player being traded for I guess.

[Knoxxx]

Yeah to the above responses I’m referring to our own picks and ATLs pick (not including those protected picks or even the swaps)

We can absolutely trade ATLs picks for a star player without trading our own or vice versa. The problem being is the correct Star player being traded for I guess.

The issue here is we or ATL could still be quite bad for the next 1-3 years. It is hard to justify trading our own or ATL picks prior to at least 2027, if i had to guess what the authorities on this board may say in that regard.

Edit: but because other teams don't know how bad ATL or SAS will be ahead of time, that introduces uncertainty to where they want to discount the value of those picks.

[exstatic]

Question for ST, I know we don’t want to blow our load… but are we being too greedy with our picks? The fact that we could trade our picks without trading ATLs pick for a star or vice versa trading ATLs picks without trading our own is pretty enticing.

Um…

Edit: that was a quick delete, Degoat.

[LeBowen]

That was a lot to read through, only to learn that there are 2-3 FA forwards at best that are maybe worth looking into.

I'd rather take a Willaims or Buzelis in this draft. If needed, more of a true PF next draft. Also I think we should mention Barlow in this discussion, since he is only 20 and has pretty strong SF/PF potential, similar to Buzelis.

Based off your list, I think you are mainly just looking at SFs, while we need to be looking at PFs also at some point.

I was looking at all the forwards.
Harris, Toppin, SlowMo, Batum are all PFs.

Anyhow, we can agree that there's not many players to choose from. Unless PATFO is high on Williams, we won't find a good free agent forward this summer.
Monk is easily the best free agent this summer and getting him if we draft Castle and a forward makes sense.

Tre, Devin, Castle, Monk for guard positions, with Castle and Devin being able to slide to SF in some lineups.

Jeremy, Keldon, rookie and Champagnie at forward positions. Maybe trade Keldon and get one of the forwards from the list.
Looking at everyone who could be available, my flavor of the week idea is to try and get MPJ if Denver decides he's expendable.

[Knoxxx]

Yeah to the above responses I’m referring to our own picks and ATLs pick (not including those protected picks or even the swaps)

We can absolutely trade ATLs picks for a star player without trading our own or vice versa. The problem being is the correct Star player being traded for I guess.

Again, we won't get any star player for those picks, until the draft lottery order and player pool is known. So if we had #1 pick in 2025, Cooper Flagg, we could probably get something quite good for him. But, that would not be smart.

The highly speculative nature of the future picks makes them inherently more valuable to the existing owner, than a potential acquirer. Trading actual players for players probably gets the most comparable value. Throwing in a FRP somewhere probably makes sense, to equalize a trade of veteran players. I think we have to wait until after the finals, there are designated timetables for all this activity also.

Now the exception here is a team doing a rebuild, they are more likely to be willing to take on some speculative risk. Even the Spurs did a little of that.

[Knoxxx]

I was looking at all the forwards.
Harris, Toppin, SlowMo, Batum are all PFs.

Anyhow, we can agree that there's not many players to choose from. Unless PATFO is high on Williams, we won't find a good free agent forward this summer.
Monk is easily the best free agent this summer and getting him if we draft Castle and a forward makes sense.

Tre, Devin, Castle, Monk for guard positions, with Castle and Devin being able to slide to SF in some lineups.

Jeremy, Keldon, rookie and Champagnie at forward positions. Maybe trade Keldon and get one of the forwards from the list.
Looking at everyone who could be available, my flavor of the week idea is to try and get MPJ if Denver decides he's expendable.

That's slim pickings! So those I bolded, I still think we are talking about SF/PFs. I was also suggesting we need PF/Cs going forward also. Wemby needs rebounding help, we got out rebounded much too often. A second rim protector would also be nice, as opposed to watching Collins stand with his hands straight up getting run over and called for fouls or ran around for baskets.

Edit: Yes in the draft Castle or a bigger wing are also good SF options. The more we look at the FA player pools and pricing, the better the draft always looks to me.

[LeBowen]

That's slim pickings! So those I bolded, I still think we are talking about SF/PFs. I was also suggesting we need PF/Cs going forward also. Wemby needs rebounding help, we got out rebounded much too often. A second rim protector would also be nice, as opposed to watching Collins stand with his hands straight up getting run over and called for fouls or ran around for baskets.

That's why I mentioned Achiuwa. His defense was great in the playoffs and he can be the backup big in most matchups.
Him or Jeremy next to Wemby wouldn't make a difference in terms of spacing.

Nuggets are over second apron and MPJ trade is the only logical thing to do.
They could get two or three good rotation players for him.

Yeah, he's overpaid a bit and offers no playmaking, but would fill two of our biggest needs. Shooting and rebounding.
And his contract ends when Wemby's extension kicks in.
Having MPJ would mean Jeremy can be the other forward.

I think most of our fanbase needs to come to terms that we're not getting a player who's on a great deal, has no fundamental flaws, fits the timeline and doesn't cost too much.
My current goal would be getting Wemby some help without paying too much and getting players that won't ruin our long-term cap situation.

[scott]

Unless PATFO drafts two forwards and keeps Keldon, we're going to need a quality starter at forward position.
What's everyone's take on the situation?

Free agents:
Achiuwa - can't shoot, but he's done great in NY and could be Wemby's backup at C. I like lil' Precious as a backup C, but only in that role, and I don't want to invest more into backup C until Collins is moved.
Crowder - I hope not.
Okoro - I was high on him, but his shot disappeared in the playoffs. Would be a major upgrade to Champ, but would only want as a 1-2 year stopgap. Maybe could move to backup role longer term if you moved Keldon and got your starting SF through the draft this year or next.
Toppin - would be a solid bench forward, not good enough to start. I think would actually be an upgrade to Sochan at PF. Mabye you lose a little on individual perimeter D, but Toppin isn't a slouch on D (advanced stats are pretty similar to Sochan's), and he can actually shoot.
Harris - ugh, no. Wouldn't hate it on a cheap deal, but I think he'll command more.
Oubre - I wouldn't mind him, he was great in the playoffs. But I don't think Pop would take a player who didn't get over himself. Just seems like a bad fit, personality wise. Might drive Pop into retirement.
Batum - I guess he could be an option if we need two forwards and Wemby can convince him to play one more season. Would be great but how much is left in the tank?
Highsmith - could be a solid bench option. Solid defender, but much like Okoro his shot disappeared in the playoffs.
Patrick Williams - would be a solid choice if the price is right. Didn't develop as expected, but he still hasn't turned 23. If thinking long term, this seems to be the best fit - but I don't think he'll be cheap. Probably looking at 4/100 would be my guess? Not a bad contract, but not insignificant. You probably want to move off Keldon if you go this route, as Keldon minutes will dry up.
Hayward - washed. Thought would be ideal before he basically did nothing in OKC. Same question as Batum... how much is actually left in the tank? He was doing pretty well in CHA before being injured and then traded.
SlowMo - can't afford any more non-shooters.
Jones Jr - would be great if we could take him from Mavs, he's been amazing for them. My guess is that he'll be in high demand for contenders and we won't look all that appealing.
O'Neale - looks somewhat washed.
Prince - would be a solid bench option.

I didn't include Demar, Siakam and OG that will most likely stay with their teams.

As far as forwards that could be available for trade go, it's too early to tell.
Obviously Bridges, Cam Johnson and DFS are available for the right price. But what's the right price according to the Nets?
There's Markkanen and Ainge's ridiculous asking price that's not worth bothering with.
I wouldn't mind MPJ if Denver decides they need more depth and he's too expensive.
We'll see how NOLA situation plays out, Ingram is most likely the one that has to go. Never liked him as a player.
Kings are looking to move from Barnes, he'd be a solid veteran for us. Idk about their asking price.
Portland needs to move Grant, but his contract runs all the way up to 2028, not worth it.
Some others will surely become available.

Nice list... I put my thoughts in bold for each of the players mentioned!

[montgod]

Unless PATFO drafts two forwards and keeps Keldon, we're going to need a quality starter at forward position.
What's everyone's take on the situation?

Free agents:
Achiuwa - can't shoot, but he's done great in NY and could be Wemby's backup at C.
Crowder - I hope not.
Okoro - I was high on him, but his shot disappeared in the playoffs.
Toppin - would be a solid bench forward, not good enough to start.
Harris - ugh, no.
Oubre - I wouldn't mind him, he was great in the playoffs. But I don't think Pop would take a player who didn't get over himself.
Batum - I guess he could be an option if we need two forwards and Wemby can convince him to play one more season.
Highsmith - could be a solid bench option. Solid defender, but much like Okoro his shot disappeared in the playoffs.
Patrick Williams - would be a solid choice if the price is right. Didn't develop as expected, but he still hasn't turned 23.
Hayward - washed.
SlowMo - can't afford any more non-shooters.
Jones Jr - would be great if we could take him from Mavs, he's been amazing for them.
O'Neale - looks somewhat washed.
Prince - would be a solid bench option.

I didn't include Demar, Siakam and OG that will most likely stay with their teams.

As far as forwards that could be available for trade go, it's too early to tell.
Obviously Bridges, Cam Johnson and DFS are available for the right price. But what's the right price according to the Nets?
There's Markkanen and Ainge's ridiculous asking price that's not worth bothering with.
I wouldn't mind MPJ if Denver decides they need more depth and he's too expensive.
We'll see how NOLA situation plays out, Ingram is most likely the one that has to go. Never liked him as a player.
Kings are looking to move from Barnes, he'd be a solid veteran for us. Idk about their asking price.
Portland needs to move Grant, but his contract runs all the way up to 2028, not worth it.
Some others will surely become available.


Nice list... I put my thoughts in bold for each of the players mentioned!

Nice information. I think plan forward, or at least for this offseason/2025 year, is to still tinker and develop moreso than add FA talent especially with a possible two 1st rounders, addl 2nd rounders, and last years players returning and trying to sort through minutes.

In saying that, I think these mostly younger FAs wouldn't break the bank and could still be a stopgap or become productive off the bench:

Naji Marshall - Improved his 3pt shooting this year and very capable defender. NO won't be trying to re-sign
Bruce Brown - Trade target. It's a long shot with his current salary unless someone like Keldon is used to offset, but provides what Spurs would need in 3pt shooting and defense. Also gives a good younger vet presence as well
Sadiq Bey - Longshot since he's restricted but he plays good D and scores at a good pace when he comes in. Good off the bench.
Derrick Jones - Longshot especially after this last series. Also think he needs a good pg to really thrive.
Cedi Osman - Why not? He doesn't mind teaching, coming off the bench, and being a great teammate and blended in well.

Everyone else seems to be older, too pricey, and would take minutes away from whoever the Spurs draft/have drafted and to be properly evaluated. And I just don't see Spurs going after anyone big named unless it's to help w/a salary dump for a short period of time.

[rjv]

philly fans can't wait for harris to get dumped off that roster.

[Mr. Body]

philly fans can't wait for harris to get dumped off that roster.

Man was SpursTalk all in on getting him back in the day.

[montgod]

Man was SpursTalk all in on getting him back in the day.

I remember lol. He just collecting a check now and where ever he goes.

[LeBowen]

Why would DJJ be unrealistic? It's not like good teams have cap space.
OKC and Sixers are the only two playoff teams with cap space.
OKC doesn't really want to use cap space on more role players, they need a second star.
Sixers could and should go for him, but Morey is a moron and will throw a max at either Jimmy or PG13.

[scott]

Need Eric Zhang to weigh in

1796247242522898873

[scott]

Account has zero followers, BTW :lol

Troll bots know the way to engagement and money is to start a Spurs rumor account and rile up the base with stupid ideas

[scott]

And for those looking for a better trade machine:

1796231090262229463

[TD 21]

Achiuwa - RFA and really an undersized/small ball C, who doesn't possess the skillset they need in one.
Crowder - Not Spurs material and washed.
Okoro - RFA, who won't be easy to pry. Undersized and despite improvement from 3, defenses still don't guard him.
Toppin - RFA, but seemingly could be had as he's blocking Walker. Despite all around improvement, not their preferred big wing skillset at the four.
Harris - Post prime, will command at least all of their cap space and rumored to return to Pistons, where he has connections.
Oubre Jr. - Not Spurs material.
Batum - If he doesn't retire, will likely re-sign with 76ers or sign with some other championship contender.
Highsmith - If they sign a wing, he's probably on their radar.
Williams - RFA, who won't be easy to pry. They might express interest, but will probably have sticker shock.
Hayward - Washed. Could see him signing with Pacers or even retiring.
Anderson - Non shooter renders him untenable here.
Jones Jr. - Hard to see the incumbent losing him considering how integral he's been and virtually no means with which to replace him.
O'Neale - See Jones Jr.
Prince - See Highsmith.
Marshall - See Highsmith and Prince.
Brown Jr. - More of a guard and would have to trade for; see Okoro.
Bey - Out for most/all of next season with torn ACL.
Osman - Probably a longshot to be re-signed.

[exstatic]

Man was SpursTalk all in on getting him back in the day.

He would have been a good get. But his agent had Philly over a barrel when they dumped a ton of picks to get him and Jimmy B, and Jimmy walked.

[Degoat]

Wish there was more workout information out, seems like there’s been no noise.

[Degoat]

Um…

Edit: that was a quick delete, Degoat.

[Mr. Body]

Wish there was more workout information out, seems like there’s been no noise.

I'm not sure we'll know a single thing until the picks are made.

[KingKev]

Man was SpursTalk all in on getting him back in the day.

Yes, myself included but no one saw the type of money Philly gave him.

[SpurSpike]

Shake Milton is going to be a free agent I think. Didn't realize he has been passed around a bit lately. Has always been hidden on the bench but whenever he got a chance to start he almost always produced.

Shake Milton averaged 20.3 points, 7.2 assists and 4.8 rebounds in 11 games as a starter in 2022-23.

[spurraider21]

And for those looking for a better trade machine:

1796231090262229463
even if its more flexible with more functionality than the espn one, the UI is just god awful imo

[ace3g]

"In the lab"

C8NQOBeRbNG

[MultiTroll]

I wish he'd trim that birds nest.

[ace3g]

I wish he'd trim that birds nest.

The IG is a video BTW.

[MultiTroll]

The IG is a video BTW.
Ay yes.
Wemby. Our reason for hope.

[buttsR4rebounding]

https://x.com/BrickWrld_/status/1801733059039084946 (http://https://x.com/BrickWrld_/status/1801733059039084946)

Klay Thompson deletes Warriors from social media accounts.

[scott]

Orlando and... maybe Houston(?) could make sense as Klay destinations. Also, perhaps Minny.

[ace3g]

Bobby Marks, ESPNJun 16, 2024, 06:47 AM ET
NBA free agency 2024: Salary cap, spending for all 30 teams


The 2024 NBA offseason is officially here and teams can turn toward reshaping their rosters.
Starting on the first day after the NBA Finals conclude, teams are allowed to negotiate with their own free agents and players become eligible to sign an extension. Starting June 30 at 6 p.m. ET, teams will be allowed to negotiate with free agents who are not on their rosters.

A trend to monitor is whether rebuilding teams such as Detroit, Utah, or the San Antonio Spurs rent cap space out in trades. Last offseason, the Pistons acquired Joe Harris and Monte Morris and the Jazz brought in John Collins to help those players' previous teams get cap relief.


TIER 2: Salary cap space teams

The Charlotte Hornets, Spurs and Toronto Raptors could join the above group of six cap space teams -- but at a cost.
For the Hornets to create $31 million in room, they would need to let free agent Miles Bridges walk and also waive Davis Bertans and Seth Curry.
The Raptors have a decision on what they prioritize more: the $23 million expiring contract of Bruce Brown Jr., or the ability to create up to $29 million in space to sign free agents.
The likely scenario is that Charlotte and Toronto enter the offseason with the $12.9 million nontax midlevel exception available to use.
The Spurs would need to waive guard Devonte' Graham for them to have $20 million in space.


San Antonio Spurs

Below the cap: $7 million
Improvements to the roster likely will occur internally or with a trade. The offseason priorities remain finding stability at point guard and shooters to complement NBA Rookie of the Year Victor Wembanyama.
The Spurs started Jeremy Sochan at point guard before switching back to Tre Jones. San Antonio was outscored by 19.2 points per 100 possessions in the games Sochan started at point guard. The Spurs ranked 20th in 3-point percentage among reserves.

Free agents who fit: Tyus Jones, D'Angelo Russell, Malik Monk, Aaron Holiday, Vit Krejci, Dalano Banton, Malik Beasley, Garrison Mathews, Lester Quinones, De'Anthony Melton, Jaxson Hayes, Saddiq Bey, Cole Swider, Nicolas Batum, Joe Ingles, Matt Ryan, Sam Hauser, Lonnie Walker, Simone Fontecchio, Cam Reddish, Yuta Watanabe and Obi Toppin

Who returns/joins: Victor Wembanyama, Keldon Johnson, Devin Vassell, Zach Collins, Tre Jones, Jeremy Sochan, Malaki Branham, Blake Wesley, Sidy Cissoko, Julian Champagnie (contract guaranteed), Devonte' Graham (contract guaranteed), Charles Bassey (non-guaranteed), first-rounder (own) and first-rounder (via TOR)

Who might be gone: Cedi Osman and Sandro Mamukelashvili

NBA free agency 2024: Salary cap, spending for all 30 teams - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/40352853/nba-free-agency-2024-salary-cap-spending-tiers-all-30-teams#sa)

[CGD]

Bobby Marks, ESPNJun 16, 2024, 06:47 AM ET
NBA free agency 2024: Salary cap, spending for all 30 teams


The 2024 NBA offseason is officially here and teams can turn toward reshaping their rosters.
Starting on the first day after the NBA Finals conclude, teams are allowed to negotiate with their own free agents and players become eligible to sign an extension. Starting June 30 at 6 p.m. ET, teams will be allowed to negotiate with free agents who are not on their rosters.

A trend to monitor is whether rebuilding teams such as Detroit, Utah, or the San Antonio Spurs rent cap space out in trades. Last offseason, the Pistons acquired Joe Harris and Monte Morris and the Jazz brought in John Collins to help those players' previous teams get cap relief.


TIER 2: Salary cap space teams

The Charlotte Hornets, Spurs and Toronto Raptors could join the above group of six cap space teams -- but at a cost.
For the Hornets to create $31 million in room, they would need to let free agent Miles Bridges walk and also waive Davis Bertans and Seth Curry.
The Raptors have a decision on what they prioritize more: the $23 million expiring contract of Bruce Brown Jr., or the ability to create up to $29 million in space to sign free agents.
The likely scenario is that Charlotte and Toronto enter the offseason with the $12.9 million nontax midlevel exception available to use.
The Spurs would need to waive guard Devonte' Graham for them to have $20 million in space.


San Antonio Spurs

Below the cap: $7 million
Improvements to the roster likely will occur internally or with a trade. The offseason priorities remain finding stability at point guard and shooters to complement NBA Rookie of the Year Victor Wembanyama.
The Spurs started Jeremy Sochan at point guard before switching back to Tre Jones. San Antonio was outscored by 19.2 points per 100 possessions in the games Sochan started at point guard. The Spurs ranked 20th in 3-point percentage among reserves.

Free agents who fit: Tyus Jones, D'Angelo Russell, Malik Monk, Aaron Holiday, Vit Krejci, Dalano Banton, Malik Beasley, Garrison Mathews, Lester Quinones, De'Anthony Melton, Jaxson Hayes, Saddiq Bey, Cole Swider, Nicolas Batum, Joe Ingles, Matt Ryan, Sam Hauser, Lonnie Walker, Simone Fontecchio, Cam Reddish, Yuta Watanabe and Obi Toppin

Who returns/joins: Victor Wembanyama, Keldon Johnson, Devin Vassell, Zach Collins, Tre Jones, Jeremy Sochan, Malaki Branham, Blake Wesley, Sidy Cissoko, Julian Champagnie (contract guaranteed), Devonte' Graham (contract guaranteed), Charles Bassey (non-guaranteed), first-rounder (own) and first-rounder (via TOR)

Who might be gone: Cedi Osman and Sandro Mamukelashvili

NBA free agency 2024: Salary cap, spending for all 30 teams - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/40352853/nba-free-agency-2024-salary-cap-spending-tiers-all-30-teams#sa)

Didn’t the Spurs have a crush on Dalano Banton for a hot second?

Batum makes a lot of sense at wing until the spurs find better SF talent via these upcoming drafts. Also a ZR fall back plan.

Is Bey a reclamation project? Don’t know enough about him.

[Mr. Body]

The FA pool is really pretty trash. Batum intrigues, but he played well in the POs for the Sixers and think a playoff team will grab him.

This summer should have a lot of players on the move as fringe and declining teams look to save themselves, plus the big ticket teams struggling with their financial futures. The play may be to look for players with existing contracts rather than strict FAs.

[fafo]

Didn’t the Spurs have a crush on Dalano Banton for a hot second?

Batum makes a lot of sense at wing until the spurs find better SF talent via these upcoming drafts. Also a ZR fall back plan.

Is Bey a reclamation project? Don’t know enough about him.
Saddiq Bey tore his ACL so he'd have to be brought along slowly with little expectations next year.

[Ignazzz]

Nico will finish bb career during OG Paris 2024

[ace3g]

https://youtu.be/VYePeO0wngo?si=qhH6LReDybxtY7E3

[ace3g]

https://x.com/johnhollinger/status/1802906068793614477

[timtonymanu]

Most excited about this offseason since 2015 when Aldridge signed here.

[DPG21920]

timvp - we going to get a bigger off season primer that includes both draft and how that coincides with possible free agency plans/trades shaping up what we expect to see heading into next season in terms of overall change?

[Obstructed_View]

Orlando and... maybe Houston(?) could make sense as Klay destinations. Also, perhaps Minny.

If Klay commits to a veteran leadership role for a reasonable salary, is he a viable free agent for the Spurs?

[scott]

If Klay commits to a veteran leadership role for a reasonable salary, is he a viable free agent for the Spurs?

While I am personally not a huge fan of Klay and think he is kind of washed, I could definitely see the Spurs being interested in him, even to the point of offering him more than he probably deserves at this point. I didn't mention in (and am hesitant to even write this reply) because I don't want to manifest it into existence.

I'm probably being too harsh on Klay, he still averaged 18pts last year on 39% from 3 in 77 games... but going 0-10 in the play in game leaves a bad taste. In reality, yeah Klay probably is a really good fit here on a 2/35 type deal. I am just personally not too interested.

[cd98]

While I am personally not a huge fan of Klay and think he is kind of washed, I could definitely see the Spurs being interested in him, even to the point of offering him more than he probably deserves at this point. I didn't mention in (and am hesitant to even write this reply) because I don't want to manifest it into existence.

I'm probably being too harsh on Klay, he still averaged 18pts last year on 39% from 3 in 77 games... but going 0-10 in the play in game leaves a bad taste. In reality, yeah Klay probably is a really good fit here on a 2/35 type deal. I am just personally not too interested.

I'd be okay if they brought Klay in as a shooting coach. If GSW don't want to sign him after all he's done for them and where they are as a franchise, then that's a red flag.

[SpursFan86]

Last report I saw mentioned that Klay was wanting a 3 year deal, and for whatever reason I don’t think he views himself as the type who should be accepting a lesser contract due to him being past his prime. Guessing he’ll want something like 3 years/$75MM and I’m a hard pass on that.

[LeBowen]

Klay is a fake nice guy.
He also lost most of his speed and is a negative defender. Would work only if he could play SF.
I doubt he'd sign a short deal unless it's a big overpay.

[onechance87]

Guess will see if we sign mamu soon,If not i can see us for drafting a big most likey salaun.

[Obstructed_View]

Last report I saw mentioned that Klay was wanting a 3 year deal, and for whatever reason I don’t think he views himself as the type who should be accepting a lesser contract due to him being past his prime. Guessing he’ll want something like 3 years/$75MM and I’m a hard pass on that.

Agree. The only chance for it to be attractive is if he wants to cement his legacy as a champion or as a leader of a dynasty. (To silence his critics)

[montgod]

While I am personally not a huge fan of Klay and think he is kind of washed, I could definitely see the Spurs being interested in him, even to the point of offering him more than he probably deserves at this point. I didn't mention in (and am hesitant to even write this reply) because I don't want to manifest it into existence.

I'm probably being too harsh on Klay, he still averaged 18pts last year on 39% from 3 in 77 games... but going 0-10 in the play in game leaves a bad taste. In reality, yeah Klay probably is a really good fit here on a 2/35 type deal. I am just personally not too interested.


I'd be okay if they brought Klay in as a shooting coach. If GSW don't want to sign him after all he's done for them and where they are as a franchise, then that's a red flag.

I just don't think a Klay signing would be in the plan for the FO as well as Klay. He'd still want to start and would take minutes away from any developmental plan for the younger players. I also think Orl and GS will probably pay more than SA would and he'd fit better w/their timeline to win now vs later.

[montgod]

Last report I saw mentioned that Klay was wanting a 3 year deal, and for whatever reason I don’t think he views himself as the type who should be accepting a lesser contract due to him being past his prime. Guessing he’ll want something like 3 years/$75MM and I’m a hard pass on that.


Agree. The only chance for it to be attractive is if he wants to cement his legacy as a champion or as a leader of a dynasty. (To silence his critics)

Agreed with both of these. Klay definitely still is feeling himself regardless of his performance last year.

[Obstructed_View]

Might be worthy of its own thread, but are there any vets with playoff experience who might be available to help steer this young squad in the right direction?

[Pauleta14]

While I am personally not a huge fan of Klay and think he is kind of washed, I could definitely see the Spurs being interested in him, even to the point of offering him more than he probably deserves at this point. I didn't mention in (and am hesitant to even write this reply) because I don't want to manifest it into existence.

I'm probably being too harsh on Klay, he still averaged 18pts last year on 39% from 3 in 77 games... but going 0-10 in the play in game leaves a bad taste. In reality, yeah Klay probably is a really good fit here on a 2/35 type deal. I am just personally not too interested.

The pb isn't only the shooting, he looks burnt, no juice or willigness on defense, doesn't have the personality of a lockeroom leader and is clearly looking for the biggest contact... at 34 yo!!

PATFO can't be that stupid

[Pauleta14]

Might be worthy of its own thread, but are there any vets with playoff experience who might be available to help steer this young squad in the right direction?

Batum would be great

Not bc he is french (doesn't hurt) but he's the perfect plug and play vet that'll be an efficient 3&D and loads of experience to share. Great dude, humble and great work ethic

I'm afraid his efficiency during the last PO might make him tough to get tho

[LeBowen]

Might be worthy of its own thread, but are there any vets with playoff experience who might be available to help steer this young squad in the right direction?

Not many.
Here's my list of realistic free agents that could be interesting.
Quickley, OG and Siakam not included, they were obviously wouldn't have been traded without extension agreement.
Players that don't fit no matter what happens also not included, Valanciunas for example.

Guards:
D'Lo
Tyus Jones
Monte Morris
Hield
Gary Harris
Monk
Melton
Okoro

Forwards:
Batum
O'Neale
Pat Williams
Jones Jr
Oubre
SlowMo
Obi Toppin
Taurean Prince
Achiuwa
Highsmith

Centers:
Theis
Plumlee
Drummond
Bitadze
Biyombo

It all depends on the draft. I guess Spurs go for one or two FAs to fill the roster.
If we don't get Sheppard, Dillingham or dont' trade for a point guard, I think Monk is a no brainer.
Would be perfect if we draft Castle.
Castle/Devin/Monk as guard rotation with Malaki getting whatever's left. Three of them would be interchangeable.
Give him a front loaded deal, 80/4 or so.

Batum would be a good veteran if Wemby can convince him to play one more year.
Idk if PATFO values Pat Williams or Toppin. Could see them being targets depending on the draft.
Highsmith would be a cheap solution for the bench.

My priority #1 this offseason is to get rid of Collins, no matter what.
If Bassey's knees are done and Barlow can't play C, then get one of the veterans for cheap o Bitadze who could try to get back on track.

[mo7888]

Not many.
Here's my list of realistic free agents that could be interesting.
Quickley, OG and Siakam not included, they were obviously wouldn't have been traded without extension agreement.
Players that don't fit no matter what happens also not included, Valanciunas for example.

Guards:
D'Lo
Tyus Jones
Monte Morris
Hield
Gary Harris
Monk
Melton
Okoro

Forwards:
Batum
O'Neale
Pat Williams
Jones Jr
Oubre
SlowMo
Obi Toppin
Taurean Prince
Achiuwa
Highsmith

Centers:
Theis
Plumlee
Drummond
Bitadze
Biyombo

It all depends on the draft. I guess Spurs go for one or two FAs to fill the roster.
If we don't get Sheppard, Dillingham or dont' trade for a point guard, I think Monk is a no brainer.
Would be perfect if we draft Castle.
Castle/Devin/Monk as guard rotation with Malaki getting whatever's left. Three of them would be interchangeable.
Give him a front loaded deal, 80/4 or so.

Batum would be a good veteran if Wemby can convince him to play one more year.
Idk if PATFO values Pat Williams or Toppin. Could see them being targets depending on the draft.
Highsmith would be a cheap solution for the bench.

My priority #1 this offseason is to get rid of Collins, no matter what.
If Bassey's knees are done and Barlow can't play C, then get one of the veterans for cheap o Bitadze who could try to get back on track.

It's a solid list. I don't think D'Lo gets enough mention here as a possible PG. If we don't draft a PG or trade for a Garland type he makes alot of sense here. Monk fits well as we all recognize. The forward list is pretty deep if you're looking for nominal starting caliber and/or depth. I do like PWill though as a starting caliber guy if we go for guards in the draft.

[DPG21920]

I will preface this with I dont want it and would not do it. But IF you could get Lavine from CHI for Keldon+Collins would you do it?

Lavine has 3 years left on his deal, Collins has 2 and Keldon 3. So effectively you’d be paying what you pay for Keldon/Collins anyways + 6/8M for the first two years to Lavine. The only year where the money is materially different is year 3 where Lavine has a 49M player option where Keldon is making only 17.5M and Collins would be off the books already.

[Ariel]

I will preface this with I dont want it and would not do it. But IF you could get Lavine from CHI for Keldon+Collins would you do it?

Lavine has 3 years left on his deal, Collins has 2 and Keldon 3. So effectively you’d be paying what you pay for Keldon/Collins anyways + 6/8M for the first two years to Lavine. The only year where the money is materially different is year 3 where Lavine has a 49M player option where Keldon is making only 17.5M and Collins would be off the books already.
No. You can get out of both Collins and Keldon for fairly cheap if you need to, Lavine is a different story. It would be an epic screw up.

[Ariel]

If Klay commits to a veteran leadership role for a reasonable salary, is he a viable free agent for the Spurs?
Klay is done, and personally I wouldn't commit to any salary beyond '25 unless it was 'a deal you can't refuse'.

[scott]

If we went with something like Castle/Dilly in the draft, I wonder about an Obi Topping signing. I see him as a very similar achetype as Sochan, but with a much more developed offensive skill set (and 40% from 3 last year) while maybe not as strong on defense or rebounding (though Toppin's defensive metrics look better on paper). They may be too similar, and if the Spurs believe in Sochan it may not make a lot of sense to pair him with a similar player who might be better and logically supplant him in the starting role. But I'm intrigued by Toppin. If Sochan were required in a trade (say for Markkanen), I would look at Toppin as a replacement.

[DPG21920]

No. You can get out of both Collins and Keldon for fairly cheap if you need to, Lavine is a different story. It would be an epic screw up.

Even though the money is net neutral (for most part, not exactly) for 2 out of the 3 years? In year 3 when Lavine is an expiring do you think you could get out of it?

[scott]

I will preface this with I dont want it and would not do it. But IF you could get Lavine from CHI for Keldon+Collins would you do it?

Lavine has 3 years left on his deal, Collins has 2 and Keldon 3. So effectively you’d be paying what you pay for Keldon/Collins anyways + 6/8M for the first two years to Lavine. The only year where the money is materially different is year 3 where Lavine has a 49M player option where Keldon is making only 17.5M and Collins would be off the books already.

I like Lavine probably more than most on this board, and I wouldn't do it. He has no ability to stay healthy and you can probably get positive value for Keldon and just tough it out for one more year of Collins until he becomes a relatively neutral expiring. If Chicago is including picks... I might listen.

[scott]

Even though the money is net neutral (for most part, not exactly) for 2 out of the 3 years? In year 3 when Lavine is an expiring do you think you could get out of it?

I think it would be similar to the Westbrook situation where LAL had to give up an FRP to get off his expiring, except in this case Lavine might be out injured while having opted into $49MM. That might be costly to move off of even as an expiring.

[Ariel]

This FA class is trash. What is out there? Monk? Pat Williams if Chicago won't match (I'm scared to even think of what the numbers would be)? Gary Harris? Honestly, Spurs might as well keep powder dry for the opportunity that will inevitably come sooner rather than later.

[DPG21920]

I like Lavine probably more than most on this board, and I wouldn't do it. He has no ability to stay healthy and you can probably get positive value for Keldon and just tough it out for one more year of Collins until he becomes a relatively neutral expiring. If Chicago is including picks... I might listen.

I agree for that exact reason personally. But I can also see, if that’s the cost, its one way to somewhat safely take a swing since money is net neutral for 2 of the 3 years and if things went wrong, SA could survive loss of Keldon/Collins with both their salary cap and abundance of picks to replace them but at least you have some semblance of upside with Lavine (even if its high risk in terms of his availability)

[Ariel]

Even though the money is net neutral (for most part, not exactly) for 2 out of the 3 years? In year 3 when Lavine is an expiring do you think you could get out of it?
The money is not net neutral, Lavine is set to make 43M, 46M, 49M for the remainder of his contract; Keldon, 19M, 17.5M and 17.5M; Collins, 17M and 18M. So basically it's 43M vs 36M in year 1, 46M vs 35.5M in year 2, and 49M vs 18M in year 3, you're committing to an additional 49.5M. Furthermore, it's easier to move a contract if it's split into smaller chunks. Lastly, Keldon is not seen as a negative, maybe neutral but someone will take him if you want him off your books. Hell, you had him as worth the no. 5 by himself just a few hours ago, now you're bringing him up as comparable to one of the worst contracts in the league? :lol As for Collins, yes, he's a bad contract but he's expiring in a year and, by then, perfect trade fodder.
For all we know Lavine may be the next Lonzo, taking on his deal is borderline suicidal. That contract is toxic as nuclear waste. I'd rather get gonorrhea.

[onechance87]

This FA class is trash. What is out there? Monk? Pat Williams if Chicago won't match (I'm scared to even think of what the numbers would be)? Gary Harris? Honestly, Spurs might as well keep powder dry for the opportunity that will inevitably come sooner rather than later.

No way come out this offseason with out some type of change.We would look bad trying not to upgrade.
Some type of playmaker is a must imo.

[LeBowen]

I agree for that exact reason personally. But I can also see, if that’s the cost, its one way to somewhat safely take a swing since money is net neutral for 2 of the 3 years and if things went wrong, SA could survive loss of Keldon/Collins with both their salary cap and abundance of picks to replace them but at least you have some semblance of upside with Lavine (even if its high risk in terms of his availability)

Lavine has no upside.
I wrote about it already, can't find the post right now.

Anyhow, they started the season 5-14 and went 34-29 the rest of the way after he got injured. He did play 7 more games, but was obviously not healthy and averaged just 15ppg.

[Ariel]

No way come out this offseason with out some type of change.We would look bad trying not to upgrade.
Some type of playmaker is a must imo.
I don't disagree, but you can do that without taking on long term salary, say by trading for Brogdon for a 2nd round pick plus cap relief for Portland. Spurs shouldn't be a dumpster fire this year, but should avoid making costly mistakes just as much. I don't think it's hard to do, simply the FO didn't want to do it.

[DPG21920]

The money is not net neutral, Lavine is set to make 43M, 46M, 49M for the remainder of his contract; Keldon, 19M, 17.5M and 17.5M; Collins, 17M and 18M. So basically it's 43M vs 36M in year 1, 46M vs 35.5M in year 2, and 49M vs 18M in year 3, you're committing to an additional 49.5M. Furthermore, it's easier to move a contract if it's split into smaller chunks. Lastly, Keldon is not seen as a negative, maybe neutral but someone will take him if you want him off your books. Hell, you had him as worth the no. 5 by himself just a few hours ago, now you're bringing him up as comparable to one of the worst contracts in the league? :lol As for Collins, yes, he's a bad contract but he's expiring in a year and, by then, perfect trade fodder.
For all we know Lavine may be the next Lonzo, taking on his deal is borderline suicidal. That contract is toxic as nuclear waste. I'd rather get gonorrhea.

The first two years, Spurs have plenty of cap space. I dont see them using it all, especially if they get Lavine, so I mean functionally it’s mostly neutral. I do value Keldon - hes the reason you may be able to get Lavine here.


I said I wouldn’t do it, but I feel like its a fair risk/reward question to ask

[Ariel]

The first two years, Spurs have plenty of cap space. I dont see them using it all, especially if they get Lavine, so I mean functionally it’s mostly neutral. I do value Keldon - hes the reason you may be able to get Lavine here.


I said I wouldn’t do it, but I feel like its a fair risk/reward question to ask
´24 Lavine is the new '23 Beal, whomever takes on his deal will regret it not before too long. Asking the question is fine, but it's a risk a hopeless team should take, Spurs are going to have lots of better options at their disposal, as long as they don't shoot themselves on the foot.

[LeBowen]

The first two years, Spurs have plenty of cap space. I dont see them using it all, especially if they get Lavine, so I mean functionally it’s mostly neutral. I do value Keldon - hes the reason you may be able to get Lavine here.


I said I wouldn’t do it, but I feel like its a fair risk/reward question to ask

Spurs won't have a lot of cap space if they're to improve.
Let's go with the assumption that Wemby, Devin and Sochan are long-term pieces.
Maybe Tre, but I'm not a fan if we can get someone better. Champagnie will be there as backup perimeter player.
Wesley and Branham are surely gone next summer if they don't improve. Same for Cissoko and Bassey.

Cap situation next summer for the upcoming 25-26 season would be something like:
Devin $27M
Wemby $13.4M
Jeremy $7M
Champagnie $3M
Rookies ~$25M (assuming we draft two players in '24 and two in '25 with Spurs/Hawks picks)

That's ~$70M for 8 players and Cap projection is at $155M for 25-26 season.
Franchise player, two key rotation pieces and a bunch of rookies who may or may not be useful at that point.
$85M left for between 3 and 6 rotation players, assuming that at least one of the rookies is a valuable contributor at that point.
Get a second option for Wemby? ~$40M for a max contract.
Then you either get two more quality role players for ~$45M if rookies are contribution or you spread that money around for more solid role players.

This cap heavily favors rosters with two max players, superteams are a thing of the past.
Which is amazing for us because Wemby will soon be the best player in the league and taking him down with just two max players if he's got a good second option will be really hard.
Teams that go with three max players will have no depth whatsoever.
For example, even OKC will have to commit like 80% of their cap to three max contracts in a few years and then either have rookie contracts on the rest of the roster or pay a lot of luxury tax.

While our cap situation is very good, it can change quickly and we should avoid max players that aren't actual all-stars and a good fit.

[SpurSpike]

Dalano Banton has shown out in a larger role in Portland, still young and could be had for cheap.

Dalano Banton (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/player/dalano-banton-10309) has averaged 19.4 points, 5.2 rebounds and 4.3 assists in 20 games in his last 20 games in his career

[Joseph Kony]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/276126/OG-Anunoby-Preparing-To-Test-Open-Market-Not-Thrilled-With-Knicks-Offer

OG would be the perfect player to add to the team. Spurs would need to make some moves to open the space (can he be S&T'd?) but if he is testing the market he should be target #1 imho

[spurraider21]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/276126/OG-Anunoby-Preparing-To-Test-Open-Market-Not-Thrilled-With-Knicks-Offer

OG would be the perfect player to add to the team. Spurs would need to make some moves to open the space (can he be S&T'd?) but if he is testing the market he should be target #1 imho
i doubt the knicks are nickle and diming him, they almost certainly made a substantial offer. they know that they sent assets to get him and for sure want to keep him. so this might just be him saying he wants max and nothing less.

OG is the type of player that is a good fit for basically any team. checks all the "role player" boxes very well. plays good defense? check. good size/athleticism and defensive versatility? check. strong outside shooting? check. able to beat closeouts and make plays in transition? check. low maintenance character? check.

ultimately the market will decide how much guys get paid, and historically teams had been ok giving all kinds of players max contracts who didnt seem like max players, and the narrative has been that we'll see teams tighten the belts under the new CBA. anunoby is a hell of a test subject for that theory

[Joseph Kony]

i doubt the knicks are nickle and diming him, they almost certainly made a substantial offer. they know that they sent assets to get him and for sure want to keep him. so this might just be him saying he wants max and nothing less.
probably right, but Dolan has always been a shit owner so you never know. Still, Spurs should be doing their due diligence here

[LeBowen]

OG is arguably the best 3-D wing in the league right now, ridiculous defensively, but he's got some serious injury concerns. It's always something.
He won't sign for anything less than 160/4.

Assuming we draft two players and waive Graham, we'll be around 21M under the cap.
Get rid Collins, don't pick up Wesley's option and we're at 40M.

Won't happen though.

[spurraider21]

OG is arguably the best 3-D wing in the league right now, ridiculous defensively, but he's got some serious injury concerns. It's always something.
He won't sign for anything less than 160/4.

Assuming we draft two players and waive Graham, we'll be around 21M under the cap.
Get rid Collins, don't pick up Wesley's option and we're at 40M.

Won't happen though.
wesley's option that we could decline is for the 25-26 season. we picked up his 24-25 option before the start of last season. we cant get out of that salary.

[TD 21]

It's a solid list. I don't think D'Lo gets enough mention here as a possible PG. If we don't draft a PG or trade for a Garland type he makes alot of sense here. Monk fits well as we all recognize. The forward list is pretty deep if you're looking for nominal starting caliber and/or depth. I do like PWill though as a starting caliber guy if we go for guards in the draft.

That's because the Spurs wouldn't touch him with a ten foot pole. Hield, Monk and Oubre Jr. also don't fit their rigid ideals.



Dalano Banton has shown out in a larger role in Portland, still young and could be had for cheap.

Dalano Banton (https://www.statmuse.com/nba/player/dalano-banton-10309) has averaged 19.4 points, 5.2 rebounds and 4.3 assists in 20 games in his last 20 games in his career


Almost 25 and accumulated his empty calorie counting stats (47.1 EFG%, about 6% below league average and 50.8 TS%, about 7% below league average) thanks to inflated minutes (29.2 mpg) and usage rate (27.2) on a tanking team.

Hard pass.

[spurraider21]

It's a solid list. I don't think D'Lo gets enough mention here as a possible PG. If we don't draft a PG or trade for a Garland type he makes alot of sense here. Monk fits well as we all recognize. The forward list is pretty deep if you're looking for nominal starting caliber and/or depth. I do like PWill though as a starting caliber guy if we go for guards in the draft.
as always the money is part of the equation, but ive mentioned D'Lo as somebody i'd have interest in, if we cant make Malik Monk happen

lakers ran a lot of inverted PnR with lebron and russell and it worked well. could see a lot of that w/ wemby

[exstatic]

Even though the money is net neutral (for most part, not exactly) for 2 out of the 3 years? In year 3 when Lavine is an expiring do you think you could get out of it?

Lavine is damaged goods. The issues go way beyond his bloated salary.

[baseline bum]

I will preface this with I dont want it and would not do it. But IF you could get Lavine from CHI for Keldon+Collins would you do it?

Lavine has 3 years left on his deal, Collins has 2 and Keldon 3. So effectively you’d be paying what you pay for Keldon/Collins anyways + 6/8M for the first two years to Lavine. The only year where the money is materially different is year 3 where Lavine has a 49M player option where Keldon is making only 17.5M and Collins would be off the books already.

Damn and you said I was devaluing Keldon by wanting to use him to move up and select Castle and propose this? Lavine is a genuinely negative asset.

[exstatic]

OG is arguably the best 3-D wing in the league right now, ridiculous defensively, but he's got some serious injury concerns. It's always something.
He won't sign for anything less than 160/4.

Assuming we draft two players and waive Graham, we'll be around 21M under the cap.
Get rid Collins, don't pick up Wesley's option and we're at 40M.

Won't happen though.

Wesley’s option for year 3 had to be picked up by October of last year, and it was.

[baseline bum]

i doubt the knicks are nickle and diming him, they almost certainly made a substantial offer. they know that they sent assets to get him and for sure want to keep him. so this might just be him saying he wants max and nothing less.

OG is the type of player that is a good fit for basically any team. checks all the "role player" boxes very well. plays good defense? check. good size/athleticism and defensive versatility? check. strong outside shooting? check. able to beat closeouts and make plays in transition? check. low maintenance character? check.

ultimately the market will decide how much guys get paid, and historically teams had been ok giving all kinds of players max contracts who didnt seem like max players, and the narrative has been that we'll see teams tighten the belts under the new CBA. anunoby is a hell of a test subject for that theory

Love Anunoby but he's made of glass. Probably still will get a max offer from Philly though when PG13 says no.

[Mr. Body]

Zach Lavine is what Ben Simmons was a couple years ago. Incredibly bad contract attached to a bad player the team would love to rid themselves of. Funny enough, trading the two of them with Chicago adding something to make the trade happen may be the way to go.

[ChumpDumper]

If we went with something like Castle/Dilly in the draft, I wonder about an Obi Topping signing. I see him as a very similar achetype as Sochan, but with a much more developed offensive skill set (and 40% from 3 last year) while maybe not as strong on defense or rebounding (though Toppin's defensive metrics look better on paper). They may be too similar, and if the Spurs believe in Sochan it may not make a lot of sense to pair him with a similar player who might be better and logically supplant him in the starting role. But I'm intrigued by Toppin. If Sochan were required in a trade (say for Markkanen), I would look at Toppin as a replacement.

If the Spurs are inclined to trade down this draft, I think I'd rather take DaRon Holmes II who looks like he could become more of what they would get a guy like Toppin for. He's old for the draft but I see a poor man's Naz Reid when I squint hard enough.

[mo7888]

as always the money is part of the equation, but ive mentioned D'Lo as somebody i'd have interest in, if we cant make Malik Monk happen

lakers ran a lot of inverted PnR with lebron and russell and it worked well. could see a lot of that w/ wemby

He's an on court fit with his shooting and court vision/passing. He's not been the knucklehead he once was either off the court. You can't trust him in big moments when it comes to decision making, but he's a nice player that can be better packaged with picks next summer if we go big game hunting.

[scott]

Love OG as a fit here, but definitely wouldn't not give him $40MM/yr.

[onechance87]

tyus jones looking for a deal of 15 mill or more a year.Should we go after him?

[barakz21]

tyus jones looking for a deal of 15 mill or more a year.Should we go after him?

I would in a heartbeat IF we don’t get our PG of the future in the draft. Tyus is a slight upgrade over Tre since he’s a better shooter, but besides that they’re the same player imo. Worst case scenario, we’d always have a “T. Jones” running the offense all the time. Might not be ideal, but there’s worse things imo.

[Duncan2177]

tyus jones looking for a deal of 15 mill or more a year.Should we go after him?

No thanks.

[Ariel]

tyus jones looking for a deal of 15 mill or more a year.Should we go after him?
Too soon to tell, depends on whether they get a PG through the draft or via trade. Say they draft Castle and Dillingham or trade for Garland, then absolutely not. But if they draft Risacher and Salaun, I wouldn't be opposed to signing Tyus at around MLE money with the understanding that Tre is probably one of the easiest pieces to fit into any trade, in that he's a positive asset that is fairly easy to replace. But I don't see a Jones brothers partnership as the long term answer at PG.

[Mr. Body]

Wanting to get Tyus Jones when we already have Tre Jones has to be one of the wildest most baffling ideas I've ever seen in my life.

[Silverheart80]

No on Tyus Jones. No on Trae Young. No on OG Anunoby. No on Chris Paul.

Hope DWhite doesn't receive an acceptable extension or contract offer from the Celtics, and bets on himself as an UFA, come summer 2025. If so, then back up the Brinks and there's your veteran championship-winning point guard.

[Pauleta14]

Tyus Jones while having his brother on an expiring makes no sense.

+ Doesn't move the needle really

[TD 21]

Too soon to tell, depends on whether they get a PG through the draft or via trade. Say they draft Castle and Dillingham or trade for Garland, then absolutely not. But if they draft Risacher and Salaun, I wouldn't be opposed to signing Tyus at around MLE money with the understanding that Tre is probably one of the easiest pieces to fit into any trade, in that he's a positive asset that is fairly easy to replace. But I don't see a Jones brothers partnership as the long term answer at PG.

In the highly likely event they stay put at 4 and 8, they're almost certainly drafting a guard. It's just a question of whether it's a big one (Castle), a small one (Sheppard) or a medium one (Carter).

If, as expected, it's Castle, then pursuing a small guard might still happen.

[cutewizard]

Guys

can we get Mario Hezonza?

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_MiGcwopZw

[cutewizard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvHXaFEHkU0

[LeBowen]

can we get Mario Hezonza?

We'll take the horse.

(iykyk)

[scottspurs]

Pistons Fire Monty Williams. A week before the draft interesting timing. Franchise seems to be in complete turmoil.

[ace3g]

https://x.com/wojespn/status/1803419803228455323

[scott]

10 pages into the off-season thread and we have our first off-season news!

[Seventyniner]

10 pages into the off-season thread and we have our first off-season news!

And that's only because of the new rule that lets teams negotiate with their own players immediately after the Finals end. In past years the Siakam agreement couldn't have happened until July 1.

[scott]

And that's only because of the new rule that lets teams negotiate with their own players immediately after the Finals end. In past years the Siakam agreement couldn't have happened until July 1.

Honestly I like this new setup. Clears the table of the resignings before the draft so that there is a more accurate picture of the FA class. I'm sure teams all know who are really FA and who are just FA in name only who are getting resigned, but this makes it a little easier for fans (and avoids things like threads contemplating whether Maxey is worth throwing an offer sheet at).

[scott]

Pistons Fire Monty Williams. A week before the draft interesting timing. Franchise seems to be in complete turmoil.

This is really interesting to me. For nothing else, it signals that nothing is sacred for the new leadership. There's been a long-running assumption that DET wouldn't be interested in our guard targets at 5 (to which a few folks like Mr. Body have correctly suggested may not be the case). Obviously Trajan Langdon does not feel at all beholden to Troy Weaver's building blocks. If they're willing to swallow $65MM due to Monte, then I don't think its safe to assume anyone on that team is untouchable, including Cade.

One note: at the start of last season Ivey seemed to really be in Monte's doghouse. By the end of the season, Ivey was starting and playing heavy minutes, but it wasn't clear that Ivey was someone Monte really cared for. Ivey may either get shipped off by the new regime, or they may view him as a key piece who has been mismanaged to date. I think that will be an important pivot piece for Detroit. I'd still be very interested him for the Spurs in the 6th man scorer role if he were available.