Coronavirus treatments and vaccines thread

[vy65]

Inspired by a comment by Mid in another thread ...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/antibody-cocktail-for-covid19-trial.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bizjournals.com/albany/news/2020/07/07/regeneron-covid-19-treatment-federal-funding.amp.html

Regeneron’s treatment may be available as early as next month, though it’s a limited supply

[Blake]

Yeah but is there a way to inject disinfectants

[DMC]

I couldn't get in before the "orange man bad" tangent. Cuck beat me here.

[DarrinS]

Yeah but is there a way to inject disinfectants

A useful thread started, but then this ^

[pgardn]

I am hopeful.
We can get this thing.

We have a number of groups approaching this in different ways so it could get confusing, but the stuff I have seen is very exciting.
Some have figured out a way to mass produce this in theory. The testing will be the key imo.

[Reck]

If the FDA approves the drug at the end of Phase 3 trials, REGN-COV2 would then move on to the last phase called Phase 4, during which the drug could enter widespread use and its short- and long-term effects would be monitored in thousands of patients.

Looks like they’re just going to rush through phase 4 and release it to the public and pray something happens. Ouch

Bold strategy. But I guess if you give it to the sickest, they wouldn’t care.

[Reck]

.

[pgardn]

.

Did you read anything on how they plan to acquire patients to test?

[boutons_deux]

The testing will be the key imo.

of course.

Testing is the consumer of weeks, testing requires 20K+ "victims" to see if there are any short term side effects or deaths. Any long term side effects will remain well into 2021.

We know that BigPharma sells new products with the public as beta testers.

After a few 100K suffer or die, BigPharma pays $10Bs of penalties, and keeps on working the same way, tests its shit themselves, publishing only the benefits, while hiding the negatives.

Totally corrupt, and pricing unregulated, unique among industrial countries.

Trash will push FDA sycophants hard to approve any shit, so he can say "My vaccine works, vote for me"

[SnakeBoy]

Looks like they’re just going to rush through phase 4 and release it to the public and pray something happens. Ouch

Bold strategy. But I guess if you give it to the sickest, they wouldn’t care.

It's just a dual antibody cocktail so probably the biggest risk is antibody attenuated enhancement which I would think they have already verified they aren't using non-neutralizing antibodies.

Why a dual antibody cocktail derived from genetically altered mice with human immune systems would be preferred over convalescent plasma with antibodies from actual humans I do not know. Money is always a safe guess.

[pgardn]

It's just a dual antibody cocktail so probably the biggest risk is antibody attenuated enhancement which I would think they have already verified they aren't using non-neutralizing antibodies.

Why a dual antibody cocktail derived from genetically altered mice with human immune systems would be preferred over convalescent plasma with antibodies from actual humans I do not know. Money is always a safe guess.

they used the same approach with Ebola

I don’t think it has been approved yet

[pgardn]

of course.

Testing is the consumer of weeks, testing requires 20K+ "victims" to see if there are any short term side effects or deaths. Any long term side effects will remain well into 2021.

We know that BigPharma sells new products with the public as beta testers.

After a few 100K suffer or die, BigPharma pays $10Bs of penalties, and keeps on working the same way, tests its shit themselves, publishing only the benefits, while hiding the negatives.

Totally corrupt, and pricing unregulated, unique among industrial countries.

Trash will push FDA sycophants hard to approve any shit, so he can say "My vaccine works, vote for me"



there is also a lot of good stuff that has been held up for very minor reasons did you look that up?

there is always money involved.

[SnakeBoy]

of course.

Testing is the consumer of weeks, testing requires 20K+ "victims" to see if there are any short term side effects or deaths. Any long term side effects will remain well into 2021.

We know that BigPharma sells new products with the public as beta testers.

After a few 100K suffer or die, BigPharma pays $10Bs of penalties, and keeps on working the same way, tests its shit themselves, publishing only the benefits, while hiding the negatives.

Totally corrupt, and pricing unregulated, unique among industrial countries.

Trash will push FDA sycophants hard to approve any shit, so he can say "My vaccine works, vote for me"



Are you taking a statin yet like your Doctor told you?

[boutons_deux]

there is also a lot of good stuff that has been held up for very minor reasons did you look that up?

there is always money involved.

I get a lot of medical/science feeds, showing various promising projects, but I know, eg I, will not get a vaccine until next year due to the delay of exhaustive testing, followed by production (medical glass still in shortage?),

Distribution, and of course FUCKING FOR-PROFIT/FOR-INVESTORS PRICING which will be exorbitant and unavailable to the uninsured.

[Blake]

I couldn't get in before the "orange man bad" tangent. Cuck beat me here.


A useful thread started, but then this ^

Excellent contributions to this thread. Unmasked orange man appreciates your shield activation.

[TheGreatYacht]

Spurtacular look at Chumpettes desperately waiting and begging for government to come inject them. Idiots.

[Spurtacular]

Spurtacular (https://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=49615) look at Chumpettes desperately waiting and begging for government to come inject them. Idiots.

Trump should put a cape on for them. :lmao

[SnakeBoy]

I get a lot of medical/science feeds, showing various promising projects, but I know, eg I, will not get a vaccine until next year due to the delay of exhaustive testing, followed by production (medical glass still in shortage?),

Distribution, and of course FUCKING FOR-PROFIT/FOR-INVESTORS PRICING which will be exorbitant and unavailable to the uninsured.

Vaccine will probably be provided all on tax payer dime at an exorbitant price

Have to actually have a vaccine that works first and that's not a given at this point.

[ElNono]

Good thread. Eager to see new developments both on vaccines and treatments.

[SnakeBoy]

Good thread. Eager to see new developments both on vaccines and treatments.

Need study on hydroxychloroquine at safe dose started within 48 hours first symptoms. It works or it doesn't but we still can't get a study using it the only way that it might work.

Also need the same study on remdesivir inhalable if they show that it can be taken by inhalation. That would be promising since IV remdesivir has some benefit to severely ill so if they can get it into a form that's practical for general use it would be great.

Those are the only two I know of that have the potential to be the TamiFlu analog for Covid-19

I'm not hopeful on a vaccine anytime soon.

[ElNono]

Don't even need to be a cure or immunity. Something that makes a solid dent on the virus' ability to cause damage and death, especially on people at risk could be the ticket.

[tholdren]

Don't even need to be a cure or immunity. Something that makes a solid dent on the virus' ability to cause damage and death, especially on people at risk could be the ticket.

The current approach to dealing with COVID-19 carries significant risks to overall population health and threatens to increase inequities across the country. Aiming to prevent or contain every case of COVID-19 is simply no longer sustainable at this stage in the pandemic. We need to accept that COVID-19 will be with us for some time and to find ways to deal with it.



The current and proposed measures for reopening will continue to disproportionately impact lower income groups, Black and other racialized groups, recent immigrants to Canada, Indigenous peoples and other populations. And it risks significantly harming our children, particularly the very young, by affecting their development, with life-long consequences in terms of education, skills development, income and overall health.

Canada must work to minimize the impact of COVID-19 by using measures that are practical, effective and compatible with our values and sense of social justice. We need to focus on preventing deaths and serious illness by protecting the vulnerable while enabling society to function and thrive.



Elimination of COVID-19 is not a practical objective for Canada until we have a vaccine. While there is hope for a vaccine to be developed soon, we must be realistic about the time it will actually take to develop and evaluate it and then deliver an immunization campaign covering the entire population. We cannot sustain universal control measures indefinitely.



We need to accept that there will be cases and outbreaks of COVID-19. We need localized control measures that are risk-based. We should consistently reassess quarantine and isolation periods, recommendations for physical distancing and non-medical masks, and travel restrictions based on current best evidence and levels of risk.

At the same time we must improve infection prevention and control in long-term care and congregate living settings. We should provide support for people living in the community who need to or choose to isolate when the disease is active, as well as those who have been adversely affected by COVID-19, or the consequences of the public health measures.

Canadians have developed a fear of COVID-19. Going forward, they have to be supported in understanding their true level of risk, and learning how to deal with this disease, while getting on with their lives – back to work, back to school, and back to healthy lives and vibrant, active communities across this country.

We acknowledge the heroic work that has been done in recent months by many across all levels of government and the public and private sector, and the sacrifices that Canadians have made to get to this stage. As we look forward, Canada must balance its response to COVID-19.

[hater]

Don't even need to be a cure or immunity. Something that makes a solid dent on the virus' ability to cause damage and death, especially on people at risk could be the ticket.

Disagree.

Most of us will either be symptomless or have medium symptoms which are no joke. Not to mention unknowns like possible neuro damage.

Doubt there will be quick theufapeutics for that. So most of us will be on the same boat as now. Would not risk it on unecessary things like going to a bar or crowded restaurants, etc

[pgardn]

Trump should put a cape on for them. :lmao

like you have never been vaccinated.

where did you go to school, in Somalia?

idiot....

[vy65]

Disagree.

Most of us will either be symptomless or have medium symptoms which are no joke. Not to mention unknowns like possible neuro damage.

Doubt there will be quick theufapeutics for that. So most of us will be on the same boat as now. Would not risk it on unecessary things like going to a bar or crowded restaurants, etc

That's not true. Some treatments, like Regeneron's antibody cocktail, are both preventative and therapeutic.

[hater]

That's not true. Some treatments, like Regeneron's antibody cocktail, are both preventative and therapeutic.

Ok. But at what point would a dr prescribe you such preventative? And treatments also have side effects. Not to mention costs.

In other words its similar the chloroquine scenario. I would not take it unless I have bad symptoms and theres nothing else to take

[vy65]

Ok. But at what point would a dr prescribe you such preventative? And treatments also have side effects. Not to mention costs.

In other words its similar the chloroquine scenario. I would not take it unless I have bad symptoms and theres nothing else to take

I think the idea is to take the antibody treatment like a vaccine until an actual vaccine is made. Everything has side-effects and costs, but what's been shown is pretty promising. And this is not like the hydroxychloroquine scenario.

[TimDunkem]

^I'm sure it will be totally cheap and widely available.

[hater]

^I'm sure it will be totally cheap and widely available.

I have my doubts that a magic pill will be widely available anytime soon.

Id give it 6 months min.

[vy65]

^I'm sure it will be totally cheap and widely available.

Probably not

[TimDunkem]

Probably not

Oh...

[vy65]

Oh...

What was the point of this exchange? Do you think you accomplished something?

[TimDunkem]

What was the point of this exchange? Do you think you accomplished something?

Woah hostile much? Relax, madam.

[vy65]

Woah hostile much? Relax, madam.

Not hostile at all, just asking a simple question.

[TimDunkem]

Not hostile at all, just asking a simple question.

Just a lil hostile, tbh.

[vy65]

Just a lil hostile, tbh.

If you say so sweetcheeks.

[TimDunkem]

If you say so sweetcheeks.

Thanks, ma'.

[ElNono]

The current approach to dealing with COVID-19 carries significant risks to overall population health and threatens to increase inequities across the country. Aiming to prevent or contain every case of COVID-19 is simply no longer sustainable at this stage in the pandemic. We need to accept that COVID-19 will be with us for some time and to find ways to deal with it.

The current and proposed measures for reopening will continue to disproportionately impact lower income groups, Black and other racialized groups, recent immigrants to Canada, Indigenous peoples and other populations. And it risks significantly harming our children, particularly the very young, by affecting their development, with life-long consequences in terms of education, skills development, income and overall health.

Canada must work to minimize the impact of COVID-19 by using measures that are practical, effective and compatible with our values and sense of social justice. We need to focus on preventing deaths and serious illness by protecting the vulnerable while enabling society to function and thrive.

Elimination of COVID-19 is not a practical objective for Canada until we have a vaccine. While there is hope for a vaccine to be developed soon, we must be realistic about the time it will actually take to develop and evaluate it and then deliver an immunization campaign covering the entire population. We cannot sustain universal control measures indefinitely.

We need to accept that there will be cases and outbreaks of COVID-19. We need localized control measures that are risk-based. We should consistently reassess quarantine and isolation periods, recommendations for physical distancing and non-medical masks, and travel restrictions based on current best evidence and levels of risk.

At the same time we must improve infection prevention and control in long-term care and congregate living settings. We should provide support for people living in the community who need to or choose to isolate when the disease is active, as well as those who have been adversely affected by COVID-19, or the consequences of the public health measures.

Canadians have developed a fear of COVID-19. Going forward, they have to be supported in understanding their true level of risk, and learning how to deal with this disease, while getting on with their lives – back to work, back to school, and back to healthy lives and vibrant, active communities across this country.

We acknowledge the heroic work that has been done in recent months by many across all levels of government and the public and private sector, and the sacrifices that Canadians have made to get to this stage. As we look forward, Canada must balance its response to COVID-19.


Meanwhile, one prominent epidemiologist was highly critical of the letter and its assertion concerning premature mortality, calling it "damaging and unfortunate."

Dr. David Fisman, an epidemiology professor at the Dalla Lana School of Public Health, told QP Briefing the letter writers "are out of the loop and don't have the standing to speak about mortality," as the only reason deaths under age 50 have been relatively rare is because public health interventions have been successful.

"I think you can look south of the border and see where the approach they advocate leads," he wrote in an email. "In the U.S., which has had a less aggressive control response, they're at 2.5 Vietnam wars worth of casualties (130,000 deaths) since March," he wrote. "Those deaths occur in all age groups, though mortality takes off sharply after age 50."

In contrast, Canada is doing relatively well in a difficult global context, with economic and social life reopening as COVID-19 becomes more under control, Fisman said.

https://www.qpbriefing.com/2020/07/07/former-public-health-leaders-urge-balanced-approach-to-public-health-measures/

[TimDunkem]

Bwahaha th:lolldren pwned again

[hater]

WHO revises things that we already knew :lol

- its airborne
- asymptomatics can transmit it
- everyone should wear a mask

I been calling alm these since early January

Called it :tu

[tholdren]

Meanwhile, one prominent epidemiologist was highly critical of the letter and its assertion concerning premature mortality, calling it "damaging and unfortunate."

Dr. David Fisman, an epidemiology professor at the Dalla Lana School of Public Health, told QP Briefing the letter writers "are out of the loop and don't have the standing to speak about mortality," as the only reason deaths under age 50 have been relatively rare is because public health interventions have been successful.

"I think you can look south of the border and see where the approach they advocate leads," he wrote in an email. "In the U.S., which has had a less aggressive control response, they're at 2.5 Vietnam wars worth of casualties (130,000 deaths) since March," he wrote. "Those deaths occur in all age groups, though mortality takes off sharply after age 50."

In contrast, Canada is doing relatively well in a difficult global context, with economic and social life reopening as COVID-19 becomes more under control, Fisman said.

https://www.qpbriefing.com/2020/07/07/former-public-health-leaders-urge-balanced-approach-to-public-health-measures/

Ireland also admitting overcount of covid death.

Effectively, it concludes that we have overestimated the death toll directly attributed to Covid-19 by 637 people.

When one considers that the total deaths attributable to the virus during the period of the HIQA analysis was 1,709, it's an overestimation of quite a very large amount.

The implication then is that the official daily figure which was 1,709 may overstate the actual excess deaths due to Covid-19 by 59.4%.

There are a few reasons why that surprising outcome may have occurred.

The first is that since the middle of April, Ireland is one of the very few countries in Europe that has included suspected or probable Covid-19 deaths in our overall totals alongside deaths confirmed to have been caused by Covid-19.

Perhaps many of those probable and suspected cases may not have the virus in the first place.

A second, which is referred to in the report is that - since we know that the vast majority of those who have died from Covid-19 also suffered from a range of serious underlying conditions, including heart disease and cancer - it may be that the actual cause of death in some such cases was the underlying condition rather than the coronavirus itself

[hater]

Looks like Russia will be first

Should have available vaccines by end of year


https://twitter.com/DrHawarey/status/1281559118059311104?s=19

Suppossedly they will share it with the world

[hater]

China should be on same path or faster.

Sure I would not take one till its had 6-12 months age

But if I was an old man with cancer....

[pgardn]

WHO revises things that we already knew :lol

- its airborne
- asymptomatics can transmit it
- everyone should wear a mask

I been calling alm these since early January

Called it :tu

The WHO never said it was not airborne.
they said there was not enough scientific evidence
aerosols and stuff are very difficult to experiment on and get clear consistent results

The circumstantial evidence was overwhelming however, they were sticking with what happens with most other viruses. we do know the virus can become distributed as an aerosol, we do not know if this is enough to get the disease. circumstantial evidence says if you sit in a room with air that is not circulating for a long enough time that the aerosol based virus is most likely enough to get the disease

A proper leader would have told us the problems and explain this so people would not go all bonkers. Again this is not easy stuff

[hater]

I think the evidence was there.

Just that it was also a political decision. It always is.

If they rule it airborne new directions would be included which would have made busisinesses completely close. Economies collapse even more. Etc

Bug maybe just maybe this would have been controlled.

Now its out of control

[boutons_deux]

The WHO never said it was not airborne.

The WHO, as a result of 100s of scientists reporting so, are now saying it is airborne.

[pgardn]

The WHO, as a result of 100s of scientists reporting so, are now saying it is airborne.

Yes they are.
Because the scientist that work closely with the aerosol science and climatology say that it is high probability.
NOW. Btw the scientist writing and urging them is partially how this is suppose to work. The WHO are not experts at everything.
They are not loaded with scientists who work with aerosols.

We did not know early on. We just did not. We thought it was contact with hands and or large stuff in the air.
Hindsight is always easy. Im not saying they have done everything correctly; its very difficult to move large organizations that want to be correct and not risk new ideas.

On the other hand its extraordinarily easy for an individual to make a you tube and call it truth.
You can ask TGY and Spurter all about that.

[pgardn]

YOu think the circumstantial evidence was there. The aerosol stuff had not been studied well enough. Its still mainly the realm of Climatologists.

Just that it was also a political decision. It always is.

If they rule it airborne new directions would be included which would have made busisinesses completely close. Economies collapse even more. Etc

Bug maybe just maybe this would have been controlled.

Now its out of control

[vy65]

Gilead Sciences published new data Friday on its antiviral drug remdesivir that shows it reduced the risk of death for severely sick coronavirus patients by 62% compared with standard care alone.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/10/gilead-says-remdesivir-coronavirus-treatment-reduces-risk-of-death.html

[boutons_deux]

Gilead Sciences published new data Friday on its antiviral drug remdesivir that shows it reduced the risk of death for severely sick coronavirus patients by 62% compared with standard care alone.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/10/gilead-says-remdesivir-coronavirus-treatment-reduces-risk-of-death.html

originally, 25% to 30%, now up to 62%. Investors must have been complaining.

[SnakeBoy]

Gilead Sciences published new data Friday on its antiviral drug remdesivir that shows it reduced the risk of death for severely sick coronavirus patients by 62% compared with standard care alone.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/10/gilead-says-remdesivir-coronavirus-treatment-reduces-risk-of-death.html

Anecdotal evidence tbh

[boutons_deux]

Why lopinavir and hydroxychloroquine do not work on COVID-19

Researchers have now discovered that the concentration of the two drugs in the lungs of Covid-19 patients is not sufficient to fight the virus.

the results provide important pharmacological and antiviral insights to the rationale of discontinuing the lopinavir/ritonavir arm.

In fact, they add scientific reasoning why hydroxychloroquine and lopinavir are not effective against the SARS-CoV-2.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200710112108.htm (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200710112108.htm)

[ElNono]

Gilead Sciences published new data Friday on its antiviral drug remdesivir that shows it reduced the risk of death for severely sick coronavirus patients by 62% compared with standard care alone.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/10/gilead-says-remdesivir-coronavirus-treatment-reduces-risk-of-death.html

I'll take an actual study over that, tbh... not playing it down, but that reads like a marketing release, IMO

[hater]

I'll take an actual study over that, tbh... not playing it down, but that reads like a marketing release, IMO

95% of whats posted here is tbqh :lol

[pgardn]

I'll take an actual study over that, tbh... not playing it down, but that reads like a marketing release, IMO

Eventually a good review article will come out that rates all these companies claims and why its exciting AND what to be skeptical about.
NY Times is usually good at getting these out, they have people who write in the science section that actually know science.
But its NY Times, so hater must dismiss it.

Yes many of them are put out by the companies themselves but people who know this stuff can cut through all of the crap. I will find a good review and put it up and no one will read it.

[midnightpulp]

Perhaps the treatment could come from our own bodies. Nothing is proven yet, but a silver lining.


Taken together, five studies report evidence of pre-existing T cells that recognize SARS-CoV-2 in a significant fraction of people from diverse geographical locations.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-0389-z

Conclusion: Some people (an unknown percentage thus far) might be naturally immune to Covid due to prior infections of common cold coronaviruses. Let's say it's 20 percent of the population. Depending on how we adjust our behavior to lower the herd immunity threshold, we could achieve herd immunity at around 40 percent of the population infected (in theory), so that means only 20 percent of the population would have to be infected. Covid tracking estimates our true infected rate at 7.3%. https://covid19-projections.com/us


Mathematicians from the University of Nottingham and University of Stockholm devised a simple model categorising people into groups reflecting age and social activity level. When differences in age and social activity are incorporated in the model, the herd immunity level reduces from 60% to 43%. The figure of 43% should be interpreted as an illustration rather than an exact value or even a best estimate. The research has been published today in Science.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200623111329.htm

I wouldn't mind us beating this thing with a combination of nature (some being naturally immune) and social will (wearing masks, careful behavior, etc) and see the pharmaceutical companies eat shit.

[boutons_deux]

Scientists develop plasma shot that could prevent coronavirus,

but say feds and makers won’t act


https://ktla.com/news/coronavirus/scientists-develop-plasma-shot-that-could-prevent-coronavirus-but-say-feds-and-makers-wont-act/

[Winehole23]

1281882146156810240

[tholdren]

Flu season this year. Flu Vax will be 100 percent effective, covid cases set new daily records.

[Winehole23]

Flu season this year. Flu Vax will be 100 percent effective, covid cases set new daily records.tholdren predicts?

[boutons_deux]

U.S. Bets On Small, Untested Company to Deliver COVID Vaccine

https://i1.wp.com/www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/8595462855e747a5a782e3cd63a55e4b.jpg?resize=600%2C 342

As part of its strategy to administer the vaccine as quickly as possible, the Trump administration has agreed to

invest more than half a billion in tax dollars

in ApiJect Systems America, a young company whose

injector is not approved by federal health authorities and :lol

that hasn’t yet set up a factory to manufacture the devices. :lol

Trump administration officials would not say why they are investing so heavily in ApiJect’s technology. :lol kickbacks!

ApiJect received a no-bid contract

$138 million to produce 100 million

another $456 million as part of a public-private partnership contract to bring online several new factories to make another 500 million devices


These amounts are more than double the per-syringe cost the government is paying other companies for the work.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/apiject-u-s-bets-on-small-untested-company-deliver-covid-vaccine/?utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ICYMI&utm_content=19xxxx


====================================

Brett Giroir, Trump’s testing czar, was forced out of a job developing vaccine projects. Now he’s on the hot seat.

[vy65]

Perhaps the treatment could come from our own bodies. Nothing is proven yet, but a silver lining.



https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-0389-z

Conclusion: Some people (an unknown percentage thus far) might be naturally immune to Covid due to prior infections of common cold coronaviruses. Let's say it's 20 percent of the population. Depending on how we adjust our behavior to lower the herd immunity threshold, we could achieve herd immunity at around 40 percent of the population infected (in theory), so that means only 20 percent of the population would have to be infected. Covid tracking estimates our true infected rate at 7.3%. https://covid19-projections.com/us



https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200623111329.htm

I wouldn't mind us beating this thing with a combination of nature (some being naturally immune) and social will (wearing masks, careful behavior, etc) and see the pharmaceutical companies eat shit.

AIkkMetCbTQ

Credit to DarrinS for finding the vid

[boutons_deux]

I don't give a shit about immunity, and certainly don't want to test on myself

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&cfrMetric=true&dailyFreq=true&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&country=DNK~NOR~FIN~SWE~USA~CAN~DEU~FRA~ESP~ITA~JP N~NLD&pickerMetric=location&pickerSort=asc&fbclid=IwAR0KhL6rP0cuRZYVx7wq2pdT6z9dA2_p1huQIz1og tDWcv59v7hVJxL_ECM

[TSA]

Perhaps the treatment could come from our own bodies. Nothing is proven yet, but a silver lining.



https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-020-0389-z

Conclusion: Some people (an unknown percentage thus far) might be naturally immune to Covid due to prior infections of common cold coronaviruses. Let's say it's 20 percent of the population. Depending on how we adjust our behavior to lower the herd immunity threshold, we could achieve herd immunity at around 40 percent of the population infected (in theory), so that means only 20 percent of the population would have to be infected. Covid tracking estimates our true infected rate at 7.3%. https://covid19-projections.com/us



https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/06/200623111329.htm

I wouldn't mind us beating this thing with a combination of nature (some being naturally immune) and social will (wearing masks, careful behavior, etc) and see the pharmaceutical companies eat shit.

Touches on one of the studies mentioned above and an interesting read.


The original article was published in the Swiss magazine Weltwoche (World Week) on June 10th. The author, Beda M Stadler is the former director of the Institute for Immunology at the University of Bern, a biologist and professor emeritus. Stadler is an important medical professional in Switzerland, he also likes to use provoking language, which should not deter you from the extremely important points he makes.

https://medium.com/@vernunftundrichtigkeit/coronavirus-why-everyone-was-wrong-fce6db5ba809

[vy65]

Touches on one of the studies mentioned above and an interesting read.


The original article was published in the Swiss magazine Weltwoche (World Week) on June 10th. The author, Beda M Stadler is the former director of the Institute for Immunology at the University of Bern, a biologist and professor emeritus. Stadler is an important medical professional in Switzerland, he also likes to use provoking language, which should not deter you from the extremely important points he makes.

https://medium.com/@vernunftundrichtigkeit/coronavirus-why-everyone-was-wrong-fce6db5ba809

Interesting read and certainly supportive of the fact that there may be greater natural immunity than originally thought (maybe even closer to the levels that we’d need for herd immunity). But his central proposition that this is just a cold and dies out in the summer is certainly not true of what’s going on in the US.

[TSA]

Interesting read and certainly supportive of the fact that there may be greater natural immunity than originally thought (maybe even closer to the levels that we’d need for herd immunity). But his central proposition that this is just a cold and dies out in the summer is certainly not true of what’s going on in the US.

True, but he never suggests that globally. I’ve also seen some interesting studies comparing countries getting hit hardest now and their previous influenza season (light) vs countries not being hit hard and their previous influenza season (hard).

[ElNono]

AIkkMetCbTQ

Credit to DarrinS for finding the vid

This would be excellent news, but it's really pure speculation for now.

[vy65]

This would be excellent news, but it's really pure speculation for now.

Agreed. Good news is the doc referenced studies when he was talking about immunity so it’s not completely out of thin air. But we’re just gonna have to wait and see for now.

[Blake]

True, but he never suggests that globally. I’ve also seen some interesting studies comparing countries getting hit hardest now and their previous influenza season (light) vs countries not being hit hard and their previous influenza season (hard).

You remember how you also saw studies that showed hydroxychloroquine worked well as a prophylactic? That was neat.

[TSA]

You remember how you also saw studies that showed hydroxychloroquine worked well as a prophylactic? That was neat.

You remember when you posted the Vox article with the one doctor and his one patient and then declared herd immunity might not happen? That was neat.

[Blake]

You remember when you posted the Vox article with the one doctor and his one patient and then declared herd immunity might not happen? That was neat.

One of those two things has been neatly debunked.

[TSA]

One of those two things has been neatly debunked.

:lol neatly debunked

There is one exception. Many researchers agree that a good case can be made for continuing to test whether hydroxychloroquine can prevent infection if given to people just in case they get exposed to the virus, for instance on the job at a hospital—a strategy called pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP). “You have a much better chance of preventing something with a weak drug than you have of curing a fully established infection,” says White, who runs one of the largest PrEP trials. He notes that doxycycline, an antibiotic, has long been used in malaria prophylaxis. “We would never treat anybody with it, it’s too weak. But it’s a very good prophylactic.”

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/three-big-studies-dim-hopes-hydroxychloroquine-can-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

Tell us more about your one doctor and his one patient.

[Blake]

:lol neatly debunked

There is one exception. Many researchers agree that a good case can be made for continuing to test whether hydroxychloroquine can prevent infection if given to people just in case they get exposed to the virus, for instance on the job at a hospital—a strategy called pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP). “You have a much better chance of preventing something with a weak drug than you have of curing a fully established infection,” says White, who runs one of the largest PrEP trials. He notes that doxycycline, an antibiotic, has long been used in malaria prophylaxis. “We would never treat anybody with it, it’s too weak. But it’s a very good prophylactic.”

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/three-big-studies-dim-hopes-hydroxychloroquine-can-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

Tell us more about your one doctor and his one patient.

Lol leaving out the title of your article:

"Three big studies dim hopes that hydroxychloroquine can treat or prevent COVID-19"

:lmao tsa

[Blake]

And do you really need more links to find out that people have gotten covid twice? It's really not hard to find

[TSA]

Lol leaving out the title of your article:

"Three big studies dim hopes that hydroxychloroquine can treat or prevent COVID-19"

:lmao tsa

It’s an inaccurate title. If you’d read the article you’d know that. Show me in each of the three studies where they say hydroxychloroquine can’t prevent infection if given to people just in case they get exposed to the virus.


You remember how you also saw studies that showed hydroxychloroquine worked well as a prophylactic? That was neat.


There is one exception. Many researchers agree that a good case can be made for continuing to test whether hydroxychloroquine can prevent infection if given to people just in case they get exposed to the virus, for instance on the job at a hospital—a strategy called pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP). “You have a much better chance of preventing something with a weak drug than you have of curing a fully established infection,” says White, who runs one of the largest PrEP trials. He notes that doxycycline, an antibiotic, has long been used in malaria prophylaxis. “We would never treat anybody with it, it’s too weak. But it’s a very good prophylactic.”

lol you

[TSA]

And do you really need more links to find out that people have gotten covid twice? It's really not hard to find

This one doctor had this one patient and now herd immunity might be unattainable! :lol

[Blake]

It’s an inaccurate title. If you’d read the article you’d know that.

:lmao completely shitting on your own article.

Smh it's why I don't read any of your text walls

[Blake]

This one doctor had this one patient and now herd immunity might be unattainable! :lol

Do you really believe it's just one?

Smh

[DMC]

This one doctor had this one patient and now herd immunity might be unattainable! :lol

Blake rarely has anything to add other than a quip, but he feels compelled to respond anyhow.

[pgardn]

Has this thread turned partisan in itself in that people want to dis each others findings based on what they wish November to look like?
Cause its gonna look bad regardless imo.

When Biden takes over we might see a reversal of the hopes and dreams posts.

Hope the thread stays alive.

[Blake]

Blake rarely has anything to add other than a quip, but he feels compelled to respond anyhow.

Tsa is talking about the thread I added to the forum.

But your off topic compelling quip is noted

[DarrinS]

Has this thread turned partisan in itself in that people want to dis each others findings based on what they wish November to look like?
Cause its gonna look bad regardless imo.

When Biden takes over we might see a reversal of the hopes and dreams posts.

Hope the thread stays alive.


Seems like this virus is just going to what it does, regardless of policy. Enough people have to be infected before it starts to fade.

[pgardn]

Seems like this virus is just going to what it does, regardless of policy. Enough people have to be infected before it starts to fade.

Oh we can make the virus have a policy.

[ducks]

As coronavirus cases surge in the United States, the White House is taking aim at the nation's top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci.

In a statement Saturday, a White House official told CNN that "several White House officials are concerned about the number of times Dr. Fauci has been wrong on things." The official went on to provide a lengthy list of examples, citing Fauci's comments early in the pandemic and linking to past interviews.
These bullet points, which resembled opposition research on a political opponent, included Fauci downplaying the virus early on and a quote from March when Fauci said, "People should not be walking around with masks," among other comments.

[pgardn]

As coronavirus cases surge in the United States, the White House is taking aim at the nation's top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci.

In a statement Saturday, a White House official told CNN that "several White House officials are concerned about the number of times Dr. Fauci has been wrong on things." The official went on to provide a lengthy list of examples, citing Fauci's comments early in the pandemic and linking to past interviews.
These bullet points, which resembled opposition research on a political opponent, included Fauci downplaying the virus early on and a quote from March when Fauci said, "People should not be walking around with masks," among other comments.

Walking around where without a mask?

You little yellow fiend.

[Blake]

Seems like this virus is just going to what it does, regardless of policy. Enough people have to be infected before it starts to fade.

Lol Dr darrin

[Blake]

As coronavirus cases surge in the United States, the White House is taking aim at the nation's top infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci.

In a statement Saturday, a White House official told CNN that "several White House officials are concerned about the number of times Dr. Fauci has been wrong on things." The official went on to provide a lengthy list of examples, citing Fauci's comments early in the pandemic and linking to past interviews.
These bullet points, which resembled opposition research on a political opponent, included Fauci downplaying the virus early on and a quote from March when Fauci said, "People should not be walking around with masks," among other comments.

So Fauci was wrong in March about wearing a mask and it wasn't until July that Trump put one on

[midnightpulp]

Touches on one of the studies mentioned above and an interesting read.


The original article was published in the Swiss magazine Weltwoche (World Week) on June 10th. The author, Beda M Stadler is the former director of the Institute for Immunology at the University of Bern, a biologist and professor emeritus. Stadler is an important medical professional in Switzerland, he also likes to use provoking language, which should not deter you from the extremely important points he makes.

https://medium.com/@vernunftundrichtigkeit/coronavirus-why-everyone-was-wrong-fce6db5ba809

Good article. And this is the primary reason I'm against a "purposeful" herd immunity strategy in this country.


But also people with a bad diet or who are malnourished may have a weakened immune system, which is why this virus does not only reveal the medical problems of a country, but also social issues.

But we can purposely lower the R0 through mitigation efforts which lowers the herd immunity threshold. If I were in charge (and I'm not expert, just using common sense), I would close all bars, indoor dining, movie theaters, churches, and anything else that can host a large indoor crowd. The previous lockdown required ALL non-essential businesses be shuttered. From what we know now, beaches, parks, and your average mainstreet businesses like Slugger's Sporting Goods and Joe's Bait and Tackle are rather safe. So we can mitigate some economic damage in that regard. And for Christ's sake, mask orders need to be enforced along with better education on masks. They aren't a replacement for social distancing. For some people, they give a false sense of security.

[SnakeBoy]

Colchicine, oral anti inflammatory used to treat gout
https://www.health24.com/Medical/Infectious-diseases/Coronavirus/an-ancient-drug-shows-promise-against-severe-covid-19-20200706-5

[tholdren]

Good article. And this is the primary reason I'm against a "purposeful" herd immunity strategy in this country.



But we can purposely lower the R0 through mitigation efforts which lowers the herd immunity threshold. If I were in charge (and I'm not expert, just using common sense), I would close all bars, indoor dining, movie theaters, churches, and anything else that can host a large indoor crowd. The previous lockdown required ALL non-essential businesses be shuttered. From what we know now, beaches, parks, and your average mainstreet businesses like Slugger's Sporting Goods and Joe's Bait and Tackle are rather safe. So we can mitigate some economic damage in that regard. And for Christ's sake, mask orders need to be enforced along with better education on masks. They aren't a replacement for social distancing. For some people, they give a false sense of security.

Lol

[boutons_deux]

A plasma shot could prevent coronavirus. But feds and makers won’t act, scientists say

Federal officials have twice rejected requests to discuss the proposal, and pharmaceutical companies — even acknowledging the likely efficacy of the plan —

have declined to design or manufacture the shots, according to a Times investigation.

The lack of interest in launching development of immunity shots comes amid heightened scrutiny of the federal government’s sluggish pandemic response.

Federal health officials and industry groups say

the development of plasma-based therapies should focus on treating people who are already sick,

not on preventing infections in those who are still healthy. :lol

"Beyond being a lost opportunity, this is a real head-scratcher,” said Dr. Michael Joyner, a Mayo Clinic researcher

https://www.latimes.com/science/story/2020-07-10/injection-prevent-coronavirus-feds-manufacturers-fail-to-act

The Greatest Country in The Universe cannot both develop treatments and vaccines at the same time?

W T F Something else is going on

[TSA]

:lmao completely shitting on your own article.

Smh it's why I don't read any of your text walls

If you'd actually read the article you'd know the title is inaccurate. Hydroxychloroquine as a prophylactic has not been neatly debunked as you claimed.

[vy65]

Good article. And this is the primary reason I'm against a "purposeful" herd immunity strategy in this country.



But we can purposely lower the R0 through mitigation efforts which lowers the herd immunity threshold. If I were in charge (and I'm not expert, just using common sense), I would close all bars, indoor dining, movie theaters, churches, and anything else that can host a large indoor crowd. The previous lockdown required ALL non-essential businesses be shuttered. From what we know now, beaches, parks, and your average mainstreet businesses like Slugger's Sporting Goods and Joe's Bait and Tackle are rather safe. So we can mitigate some economic damage in that regard. And for Christ's sake, mask orders need to be enforced along with better education on masks. They aren't a replacement for social distancing. For some people, they give a false sense of security.

If anything has been exposed by the pandemic, it's that Americans are exceptionally unhealthy. Why isn't the conversation about what we can do to tackle sugar addiction, or making healthy eating affordable, or encouraging more exercise? The problem isn't movie theatres as much as it is McDonalds.

[baseline bum]

Seems like this virus is just going to what it does, regardless of policy. Enough people have to be infected before it starts to fade.

Hopefully the antibodies last more than 2-3 months or it could just be an oscillatory cycle of rise and fall, rise and fall, rise and fall, etc. I remember seeing a model with tweakable parameters, I think on fivethirtyeight, and if you put a 90 day immunity period after infection it was just rise and fall, rise and fall for ten years out.

[boutons_deux]

If anything has been exposed by the pandemic, it's that Americans are exceptionally unhealthy. Why isn't the conversation about what we can do to tackle sugar addiction, or making healthy eating affordable, or encouraging more exercise? The problem isn't movie theatres as much as it is McDonalds.

BigFood/BigAg spend $Bs tricking Americans into over-eating their pathogenic food-like substances,

which leads to disease, which drains citizens' wealth into the for-profit health care.

And of course, BigAg is a huge polluter, external costs they never pay for.

[vy65]

BigFood/BigAg spend $Bs tricking Americans into over-eating their food-like substance,

which leads to disease, which drains citizens' wealth into the for-profit health care.

And of course, BigAg is a huge polluter, external costs they never pay for.

Drop the victim complex. People aren't being tricked into thinking McDonald's is healthy.

[boutons_deux]

Drop the victim complex. People aren't being tricked into thinking McDonald's is healthy.

the shit is everywhere, so the influence is that "it can't bad", not sold as healthy, but sold at least it's harmless, everybody's eating the shit.

BigFood engineers everything, taste tests with groups, adds chemicals until people like

and plenty of studies have shown that BigFood engineers their shit to be addictive.

Then they saturate-market the hell out it, with carefully engineered, test messaging, to associated with fun, sexiness, active, healthy life-style.

In the information war between BigFood and consumer, the war is asymmetric.

BigFood gets your money, you get fat and sick

[boutons_deux]

Canadian Biotech Firm Sees Major Upside in COVID-19 Study

Management noted that it is working closely with regulatory agencies and its collaborators to initiate clinical studies as quickly as possible.

So far, Health Canada has agreed with the design of the Phase 1 trial.

Some quick background:

The vaccine is a DPX-based formulation of multiple peptides of the SARS-CoV-2 that generated early and strong immune responses in preclinical assays in animal models.

A first-in-human Phase 1 clinical study is scheduled to initiate soon.

The vaccine candidate is designed to focus the immune response on the weaknesses of the virus with the goal to optimize safety and efficacy.

So far, the rapid progress in target selection, the vaccine formulation, manufacturing and preclinical results not only demonstrate the potential of the delivery platform

but also build on its previously reported clinical data from a similarly designed vaccine against the respiratory syncytial virus.

Clinical results have shown its DPX-based vaccine against respiratory syncytial virus demonstrated a unique ability to generate safe and long-lasting immune responses in older adults.

https://247wallst.com/healthcare-business/2020/07/14/canadian-biotech-firm-sees-major-upside-in-covid-19-study/ (https://247wallst.com/healthcare-business/2020/07/14/canadian-biotech-firm-sees-major-upside-in-covid-19-study/)

[Blake]

If you'd actually read the article you'd know the title is inaccurate. Hydroxychloroquine as a prophylactic has not been neatly debunked as you claimed.

Yes it has. You and Trump lost that one a long time ago. At least Trump knew when to raise the white flag instead of die on hydroxychloroquine hill

[TSA]

Yes it has. You and Trump lost that one a long time ago. At least Trump knew when to raise the white flag instead of die on hydroxychloroquine hill:lol trials on hydroxychloroquine as a prophylaxis are still being run you fucking dummy :lol Nothing has been neatly debunked.

There is one exception. Many researchers agree that a good case can be made for continuing to test whether hydroxychloroquine can prevent infection if given to people just in case they get exposed to the virus, for instance on the job at a hospital—a strategy called pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP). “You have a much better chance of preventing something with a weak drug than you have of curing a fully established infection,” says White, who runs one of the largest PrEP trials. He notes that doxycycline, an antibiotic, has long been used in malaria prophylaxis. “We would never treat anybody with it, it’s too weak. But it’s a very good prophylactic.”

Landray, however, is on the fence about continuing prophylaxis trials: “I suspect it’s one of these decisions where there isn’t a right or wrong.” It’s an important question, Bhadelia says, because an effective PrEP drug could have a major impact on the pandemic. Hydroxychloroquine, a cheap and widely available drug, is one of the few compounds that could fit the bill.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/three-big-studies-dim-hopes-hydroxychloroquine-can-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

[boutons_deux]

From Boston Globe email

BREAKING NEWS ALERT

The first COVID-19 vaccine tested in the US

revved up people’s immune systems just the way scientists had hoped,

researchers reported Tuesday —

as the shots are poised to begin key final testing.

“No matter how you slice this, this is good news,” said Dr. Anthony Fauci, the US government’s top infectious disease expert.

The experimental vaccine,

developed by Fauci’s colleagues at the National Institutes of Health and Cambridge-based Moderna Inc.,

will start its most important step around July 27:

A 30,000-person study to prove if the shots really are strong enough to protect against the coronavirus.

[ElNono]

:lol trials on hydroxychloroquine as a prophylaxis are still being run you fucking dummy :lol Nothing has been neatly debunked.

While it's true that some studies on hydroxychloroquine use as a prophylactic are still ongoing, we do have studies that have concluded it's useless as a prophylactic.

ie:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04304053

In other words, we're still waiting for one that says it works.

[spurraider21]

trump was calling it a miracle cure months ago

just because there are still trials ongoing to determine whether or not it is useful/effective treatment doesnt make his comments any less irresponsible

[Blake]

It’s not like his other go-to of retweeting Alex Berenson/Clay Travis is any better tbh :lol

My favorite are the gummi re-tweets

[Blake]

While it's true that some studies on hydroxychloroquine use as a prophylactic are still ongoing, we do have studies that have concluded it's useless as a prophylactic.

ie:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04304053

In other words, we're still waiting for one that says it works.

I'm sure tsa can dig one up from an obscure part of the alt right internets for you that was concluded before May 5th

[vy65]

From Boston Globe email

BREAKING NEWS ALERT

The first COVID-19 vaccine tested in the US

revved up people’s immune systems just the way scientists had hoped,

researchers reported Tuesday —

as the shots are poised to begin key final testing.

“No matter how you slice this, this is good news,” said Dr. Anthony Fauci, the US government’s top infectious disease expert.

The experimental vaccine,

developed by Fauci’s colleagues at the National Institutes of Health and Cambridge-based Moderna Inc.,

will start its most important step around July 27:

A 30,000-person study to prove if the shots really are strong enough to protect against the coronavirus.

Great news being lauded by a credible source (Fauci).

[DMC]

Amazing how well Fauci does when Trump puts the clamps on him.

[Blake]

Amazing how well Fauci does when Trump puts the clamps on him.

Lol what does that even mean

[slick'81]

While it's true that some studies on hydroxychloroquine use as a prophylactic are still ongoing, we do have studies that have concluded it's useless as a prophylactic.

ie:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04304053

In other words, we're still waiting for one that says it works.


Does that mean 'rona' is on condems?

[TSA]

While it's true that some studies on hydroxychloroquine use as a prophylactic are still ongoing, we do have studies that have concluded it's useless as a prophylactic.

ie:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2016638
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04304053

In other words, we're still waiting for one that says it works.

Both studies post exposure. Thanks for giving Blake a glimmer of light and then unintentionally shitting on him :lol

[TSA]

I'm sure tsa can dig one up from an obscure part of the alt right internets for you that was concluded before May 5th

Crawling up under Nono’s cheeks and opening det mouth :rollin

[midnightpulp]

It’s not like his other go-to of retweeting Alex Berenson/Clay Travis is any better tbh :lol

Lot of pain and suffering on his head, but at least he'll get book sales out of it.

[midnightpulp]

And these rockheaded wingnuts STILL keep falling for the CDC data reporting.

1283188544564088834

[ElNono]

Both studies post exposure. Thanks for giving Blake a glimmer of light and then unintentionally shitting on him :lol

Well, what you said was:


:lol trials on hydroxychloroquine as a prophylaxis are still being run you fucking dummy :lol Nothing has been neatly debunked.

Then you added the PrEP part. But if you're limiting to pre-exposure, then yes, it's still ongoing (I believe it's this one: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04328467)

Don't care who shat on who, tbh, don't have a horse in that race.

[Blake]

Both studies post exposure. Thanks for giving Blake a glimmer of light and then unintentionally shitting on him :lol

Tsa still wants to die on hydroxychloroquine hill.

[boutons_deux]

Why lopinavir and hydroxychloroquine do not work on COVID-19
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/07/200710112108.htm

[boutons_deux]

Hydroxychloroquine-COVID-19 study did not meet publishing society’s “expected standard”

https://retractionwatch.com/2020/04/06/hydroxychlorine-covid-19-study-did-not-meet-publishing-societys-expected-standard/

[boutons_deux]

All the Ways the Influential Hydroxychloroquine Study Was Crap

The new post-publication peer review (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920302338#!) highlights a variety of serious flaws in the study and concludes that the authors were “fully irresponsible” in how they presented their findings.

other scientists began (https://forbetterscience.com/2020/03/26/chloroquine-genius-didier-raoult-to-save-the-world-from-covid-19/) to raise questions about the study, how it was carried out, and the scientists who conducted it, particularly the senior author, a physician and microbiologist named Didier Raoult.

he and his lab were also previously accused (https://science.sciencemag.org/content/335/6072/1033)of glaring errors and misconduct in their published work, with one episode leading to a year-long ban from a prominent microbiology journal.

the evidence that hydroxychloroquine could help with covid-19, particularly severe cases, has largely (but not entirely) been lacking.

countries such as the U.S. have stopped recommending (https://gizmodo.com/fda-pulls-emergency-authorization-for-hydroxychloroquin-1844040214) its use.

one of Raoult’s co-authors, Jean-Marc Rolain, was also the editor-in-chief of the journal where it was published.

condemns the decision by

Raoult’s team to exclude from the study’s final results six patients who took hydroxychloroquine, including four whose condition worsened, one of whom eventually died

during the study period (none in the control group died).

There were also other inconsistencies, such as

supplemental material mentioning that a number of asymptomatic patients were included for study

while the study’s actual language claimed that it was an examination of hospitalized patients

(people without symptoms are unlikely to have been hospitalized for covid-19).

These and other problems with the data were enough to make the study “nearly if not completely uninformative,”

Another new paper (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920302260), similarly criticizes the French study, noting that “this trial has several major methodological issues, including the design, outcome measure and the statistical analyses.”

(https://gizmodo.com/all-the-ways-the-influential-hydroxychloroquine-study-w-1844378680?utm_source=gizmodo_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2020-07-15)Trump and members of his administration are pushing (https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/07/10/peter-navarro-hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus/) for the Food Drug Administration to once again authorize the drug as an emergency treatment for covid-19, following a quickly criticized (https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/08/a-flawed-covid-19-study-gets-the-white-houses-attention-and-the-fda-may-pay-the-price/) study (and non-clinical trial) published last week that found some evidence for its benefit.

https://gizmodo.com/all-the-ways-the-influential-hydroxychloroquine-study-w-1844378680?utm_source=gizmodo_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2020-07-15

[boutons_deux]

The Coronavirus and the Right’s Scientific Counterrevolution

How a new class of outsider experts :lol

is exploiting institutional failures and destabilizing knowledge

the crisis displays conservatives’ long-standing “antipathy to science,” owing to “populist distrust of experts, religious rejection of information that undermines biblical literalism and efforts by giant corporations to evade regulation.”

the president and his allies to the virus is rather their embrace of scientific expertise of a sort.

To counter the model (https://theintercept.com/2020/03/17/coronavirus-air-pollution/) that claimed more than two million Americans might die, skeptics advanced contrary models claiming tolls vastly lower.

Stanford epidemiologist John Ioannidis advanced a series of studies (https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.13.20101253v1) claiming that the real rate might be lower than the roughly 0.1 percent that accompanies the seasonal flu.

it is a story of fracture—of conflict and confusion, of experts earning mistrust, of each side cultivating its own class of experts to own the other’s.

It is also a perverse story of how a group of self-styled truth-telling outsiders

turned science’s mythology against its institutions,

warping it from a tool to fight the virus

into a tool to attack the establishment.

https://newrepublic.com/article/158058/coronavirus-conservative-experts-scientific-counterrevolution

[ducks]

Chuck Schumer Jan 31, 2020 - President Trump restricted travel from China due to the Chinese corona virus and when he did, Chuck Schumer criticized the president for over reacting- February 24, 2020 - Speaker Nancy Pelosi Visits San Francisco Chinatown To Show Support against Trump plan to slow Coronavirus and told everyone to come on down to Chinatown, arm and arm. This was of course due to Trump stopping flights from infected areas on January 31st.
9 January - The WHO says the infection is caused by a new type of coronavirus
10 January - China shares the genetic code of the new virus
11 January - Scientists start working on a vaccine - and the first death confirmed
13 January - Virus spreads abroad for the first time, with a case in Thailand
14 January - The WHO "No clear Evidence of Person to Person contact of Corona virus The Who Lied
15 January - "Trump Signs 'Phase 1' China Trade Deal, But Most Tariffs Remain In Place" and Pelosi finally sends Articles of Impeachment to the Senate When first US Victim gets back to the states
23 January - the central government of China imposed a lock down in Wuhan
January 31 Trump announced China Travel Restrictions and the UK left the EU at 11 p.m. GMT on 31 January 2020
February 4, 2020,The 2020 State of the Union Address was given by the 45th President of the United States, Donald Trump
February 5, 2020 Trump was Acquitted
February 7 - The WHO "Mask Won't protect You from the Corona virus
February 19th the Market began the sell off.
February 24, 2020 - Speaker Nancy Pelosi calling Trump a xenophobe and tells her people in San Francisco to gather together and all meet in China town. Nancy Pelosi wanted to show that Trump is over reacting.
March 2, 2020 - Governor John Bel Edwards gives coronavirus update to Press Club of Baton Rouge
March 11, 2020 - Bill de Blasio - Confronting the Coronavirus Outbreak in New York City | The Daily Show
March 23 - The Who "Treating the Corona virus with Hydroxychloroquine could cause a world shortage" this was a Lie.
April 1 - The Who "Wearing a mask won't protect you" repeated Lie.

[vy65]

Nice write up on the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine. Really positive stuff in here.

Covid Vaccine Front-Runner Is Months Ahead of Her Competition - Bloomberg Businessweek
https://apple.news/ATZFB_cswQoG-ZsTsrDPWmQ

[vy65]

Why are people stanning hydroxychloroquine? If it's efficacious in some circumstances, great. But choosing that hill to die on when there are other more promising treatments is beyond me.

[SpursforSix]

From Boston Globe email

BREAKING NEWS ALERT

The first COVID-19 vaccine tested in the US

revved up people’s immune systems just the way scientists had hoped,

researchers reported Tuesday —

as the shots are poised to begin key final testing.

“No matter how you slice this, this is good news,” said Dr. Anthony Fauci, the US government’s top infectious disease expert.

The experimental vaccine,

developed by Fauci’s colleagues at the National Institutes of Health and Cambridge-based Moderna Inc.,

will start its most important step around July 27:

A 30,000-person study to prove if the shots really are strong enough to protect against the coronavirus.

BigPharma good now. Pick a lane.

[midnightpulp]

Why are people stanning hydroxychloroquine? If it's efficacious in some circumstances, great. But choosing that hill to die on when there are other more promising treatments is beyond me.

Trump :lol

That's it. All they care about is paying some sort of fealty to him in a fashion. You probably already know it, but the hardcore segment of his base basically worships him. Not even hyperbole. It's literal worship.


That’s why he loves Trump: because he believes God has chosen Trump for this hour. That which Trump’s critics see as crude and divisive, Pastor Sean takes as proof of his anointing. He is God’s champion, a fighter, a “counterpuncher.” All of which has put Trump’s life in danger, says Pastor Sean. “He knows too much.”

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/06/inside-the-cult-of-trump-his-rallies-are-church-and-he-is-the-gospel

[SpursforSix]

Trump :lol

That's it. All they care about is paying some sort of fealty to him in a fashion. You probably already know it, but the hardcore segment of his base basically worships him. Not even hyperbole. It's literal worship.



https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/06/inside-the-cult-of-trump-his-rallies-are-church-and-he-is-the-gospel

Disagree. Trump jumped on hydroxychloroquine without probably knowing anything about it. But just because King Doofus endorses it, it doesn't mean it can't be effective.


https://texasscorecard.com/state/physician-says-texas-pharmacy-board-limited-coronavirus-medicine/

[vy65]

Trump :lol

That's it. All they care about is paying some sort of fealty to him in a fashion. You probably already know it, but the hardcore segment of his base basically worships him. Not even hyperbole. It's literal worship.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/06/inside-the-cult-of-trump-his-rallies-are-church-and-he-is-the-gospel

It's so fucking stupid. It's like debating the merits of Tylenol vs. Advil. And I remember that vanity fair article. It's fucking horrifying people like that exist, much less have a say in who runs the government.

[Blake]

Why are people stanning hydroxychloroquine? If it's efficacious in some circumstances, great. But choosing that hill to die on when there are other more promising treatments is beyond me.

The only reason is to win the internets.

[Blake]

Disagree. Trump jumped on hydroxychloroquine without probably knowing anything about it. But just because King Doofus endorses it, it doesn't mean it can't be effective.


https://texasscorecard.com/state/physician-says-texas-pharmacy-board-limited-coronavirus-medicine/

There's nothing concrete that says it is effective but it definitely has been shown to have fatal side effects. Why waste any more time on it? Trump even dumped it.

[SpursforSix]

There's nothing concrete that says it is effective but it definitely has been shown to have fatal side effects. Why waste any more time on it? Trump even dumped it.

Because there is some empirical evidence that it is effective in some cases. Trying to understand why it works in some and not others should be a focus.

[Blake]

Because there is some empirical evidence that it is effective in some cases. Trying to understand why it works in some and not others should be a focus.

Oh hey I wonder why the rest of the world hasn't thought of that!

[vy65]

The only reason is to win the internets.

I don't get it. Maybe because I'm a nerd at heart, but there's so much cool science shit that's going on with all these vaccine developments -- they made fucking mice that have human immune systems -- that stanning some problematic drug because the fat orange fuck likes it seems like a total waste.

[SpursforSix]

Oh hey I wonder why the rest of the world hasn't thought of that!

https://media3.giphy.com/media/26FPxSLFWTIbmqrEQ/giphy.gif

[pgardn]

BigPharma good now. Pick a lane.

Very good news.
one study had 45/45 making Ab to the virus after giving the vaccine with minimal side effects.
This is not nearly enough people so the next phase should be really important.

Like I had said I had read before, just from the molecular structure of Covid-19, this would be a great candidate to make a vaccine for.

Anyways really good news.
Im really having a good day now.

Step by step we move on at a quick pace. We can hope by next year or maybe the next.
Then Who to give it to first once we produce it...

[pgardn]

I don't get it. Maybe because I'm a nerd at heart, but there's so much cool science shit that's going on with all these vaccine developments -- they made fucking mice that have human immune systems -- that stanning some problematic drug because the fat orange fuck likes it seems like a total waste.

When we put this much effort and $ into something and take different approaches, really good things can happen.
It almost reminds me of our space efforts in the 50s and all the engineers that came out of it after Sputnik scared the crap out of us for some reason.
Difference is we had a really good coordinated effort in which the government to care to pick the right people to lead it and funded them all out.
We dont have that now. Now we actually have to be skeptical of every number put out because this WH will lie about anything.

This WH needs to get the fck out of the way; they gave up, so get out.

[Blake]

I don't get it. Maybe because I'm a nerd at heart, but there's so much cool science shit that's going on with all these vaccine developments -- they made fucking mice that have human immune systems -- that stanning some problematic drug because the fat orange fuck likes it seems like a total waste.

As an adult, I don't get it either.

[ChumpDumper]

Why are people stanning hydroxychloroquine? If it's efficacious in some circumstances, great. But choosing that hill to die on when there are other more promising treatments is beyond me.Trump was able to pronounce hydroxychloroquine with some consistency but not remdesivir.

It was easier for Trump's government to hijack the supply of hydroxychloroquine and start doling it out like a drug lord.

That's about it.

[tholdren]

Trump was able to pronounce hydroxychloroquine with some consistency but not remdesivir.

It was easier for Trump's government to hijack the supply of hydroxychloroquine and start doling it out like a drug lord.

That's about it.

Lolololol you mad at trump

[ChumpDumper]

Lolololol you mad at trump:lol you're mad at me for your failure

[tholdren]

:lol you're mad at me for your failure

ifr less than flu

Oh no

[midnightpulp]

ifr less than flu

Oh no

Show your math

[ChumpDumper]

ifrYou're afraid to show your math.

Oh no.

[Blake]

Trump was able to pronounce hydroxychloroquine with some consistency but not remdesivir.

:lol

[Splits]

This doesn't sound very good

1283484725563146240

[Blake]

This doesn't sound very good

1283484725563146240

NO NO LET'S KEEP TRYING.

[ChumpDumper]

This doesn't sound very good

1283484725563146240TRY IT! WHAT HAVE YOU GOT TO LOSE?

[pgardn]

Now here is where we see how awful the Trump administration is.
If these companies that are working on the same basic types of vaccines were required to share information and techniques we could move things along quicker.
We have plenty of people at the NIH, if they have not been fired yet, that could read required updates and be allowed to coordinate information flow. Basically right now we are relying on good people hired by big corporations to do the right thing.

This thing gets done even better if there is actually COOPERATION instead of fear of losing your job to some asshole supervisor (Trumpista type) who has not a fckn clue but knows how important the bottom line is. Here is where boots actually has some good points except he goes to far and thinks they all coordinate with each other all the time to keep the masses down.

Trump has no idea what cooperation and working toward a common goal that benefits everyone means. He only understands crushing competition for attention and looking very orange.

[boutons_deux]

When is Pootin visting the White House?

U.K., U.S. and Canada report that Russian cyberspies are trying to steal vaccine

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/uk-us-and-canada-report-russian-cyberspies-may-be-trying-to-steal-vaccine-research/2020/07/16/d7c0dbd6-c765-11ea-a825-8722004e4150_story.html (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/uk-us-and-canada-report-russian-cyberspies-may-be-trying-to-steal-vaccine-research/2020/07/16/d7c0dbd6-c765-11ea-a825-8722004e4150_story.html?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most)

[Splits]

1283585585232437249

[Blake]

1283585585232437249

I don't get how so many experts have said the soonest a true vaccine could possibly be thoroughly vetted would be many months out.

[SnakeBoy]

1283585585232437249

Six monkeys vaccinated then got infected but didn't get pneumonia. Not sure I would say that's "Excellent News!".

[Splits]

I don't get how so many experts have said the soonest a true vaccine could possibly be thoroughly vetted would be many months out.

Because they're are basing it on historical precedent. Plus, it can all fall apart in phase 3 when you are putting it into 10s of thousands of people, not a couple hundred healthy adults. Nothing is guaranteed yet, despite the doc and her "80%" prediction

I said in March:


You heard it here first: Bill Gates will play a major role in finding a treatment or vaccine for this

And in April:


I don't know, with unlimited funds and basically every health authority giving you immediate approvals every step of the way, it is not out of the realm to find a vaccine within 12 months or maybe less, there are some smart as fuck people out there and this isn't Apollo 13. I more worry about how you manufacture a billion doses.


Yeah, I just don't think that's the hardest part, incredibly smart people dedicate their entire careers to researching vaccines. Vaccine R&D is much higher margin than antiviral treatments which was overwhelmingly underfunded pre-covid... I'm talking private not public R&D

[Splits]

Six monkeys vaccinated then got infected but didn't get pneumonia. Not sure I would say that's "Excellent News!".

Those were the pre-clinical trial results you're quoting, he was responding to his tweet from May. The link in his most recent tweet shows they're already in phase 3 clinical trial, which means they've tested for safety and preliminary efficacy in healthy humans (phases 1/2)

[DMC]

Six monkeys vaccinated then got infected but didn't get pneumonia. Not sure I would say that's "Excellent News!".

He'll no it's not excellent news. Not if you're a monkey.

[spurraider21]

I don't get how so many experts have said the soonest a true vaccine could possibly be thoroughly vetted would be many months out.
depends when they were saying it... back in march/april? or are people still saying that rn?

[Blake]

Because they're are basing it on historical precedent. Plus, it can all fall apart in phase 3 when you are putting it into 10s of thousands of people, not a couple hundred healthy adults. Nothing is guaranteed yet, despite the doc and her "80%" prediction

I said in March:



And in April:

Exactly. October sounds ridiculously optimistic. Fingers crossed though

[Blake]

depends when they were saying it... back in march/april? or are people still saying that rn?

"Dr. Zervos says the soonest a COVID-19 vaccine could be ready for widespread use will be 18 months from now—and if that's the case, it will be the fastest a vaccine has ever been developed.....

https://www.henryford.com/blog/2020/04/why-does-it-take-so-long-to-create-a-vaccine

April but that doesn't really matter

[SnakeBoy]

Those were the pre-clinical trial results you're quoting, he was responding to his tweet from May. The link in his most recent tweet shows they're already in phase 3 clinical trial, which means they've tested for safety and preliminary efficacy in healthy humans (phases 1/2)

That's all the results we have. I don't think they've even published phase 1 results yet. Not trying to be a downer but biotechs leaking news that "it's all good" when there are billions of govt dollars on the table should be viewed with a little skepticism imho.

[SnakeBoy]

"Dr. Zervos says the soonest a COVID-19 vaccine could be ready for widespread use will be 18 months from now—and if that's the case, it will be the fastest a vaccine has ever been developed.....

https://www.henryford.com/blog/2020/04/why-does-it-take-so-long-to-create-a-vaccine

April but that doesn't really matter

I think mumps was the record. 4 years or so.

[DarrinS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mdc7T2UTHBI

[ElNono]

Those were the pre-clinical trial results you're quoting, he was responding to his tweet from May. The link in his most recent tweet shows they're already in phase 3 clinical trial, which means they've tested for safety and preliminary efficacy in healthy humans (phases 1/2)

They've been testing this vaccine in humans in Brazil and soon in Argentina too (part of the trials).

[boutons_deux]

COVID-19 vaccines are on the fast-track to approval.

How will we know they're safe?

given that most vaccines take years to develop,

how will we know that the first coronavirus vaccine to earn approval is safe and effective enough for widespread use?

all candidate COVID-19 vaccines must pass through the same phases of clinical trials

before earning approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), :lol Trash FDA?

as would any other vaccine (https://www.livescience.com/32617-how-do-vaccines-work.html).

Provided that the trials include many participants, numbering in the thousands,

and include thorough protocols to track side effects,

the public can be confident that the approved vaccines are safe,

a vaccine should show at least 50% efficacy in clinical trials,

meaning that under perfect conditions,

people who get the vaccine would be at least half as less likely to be infected with the coronavirus compared with unvaccinated people.

https://www.livescience.com/first-coronavirus-vaccine-safety.html (https://www.livescience.com/first-coronavirus-vaccine-safety.html?utm_source=Selligent&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20846&utm_content=20200716_Coronavirus_Infographic+&utm_term=194127&m_i=aZV1u6ZtJ7xrzhrtiWszhi7tSla%2B5%2BiBtzumxjLXfn 9Onm6WfNW0kTTmicw57dD_3rUBzxUONWd4vFJu54yezJR_B%2B 9UX3)

50% ? seems like a low bar

[tholdren]

COVID-19 vaccines are on the fast-track to approval.

How will we know they're safe?

given that most vaccines take years to develop,

how will we know that the first coronavirus vaccine to earn approval is safe and effective enough for widespread use?

all candidate COVID-19 vaccines must pass through the same phases of clinical trials

before earning approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), :lol Trash FDA?

as would any other vaccine (https://www.livescience.com/32617-how-do-vaccines-work.html).

Provided that the trials include many participants, numbering in the thousands,

and include thorough protocols to track side effects,

the public can be confident that the approved vaccines are safe,

a vaccine should show at least 50% efficacy in clinical trials,

meaning that under perfect conditions,

people who get the vaccine would be at least half as less likely to be infected with the coronavirus compared with unvaccinated people.

https://www.livescience.com/first-coronavirus-vaccine-safety.html (https://www.livescience.com/first-coronavirus-vaccine-safety.html?utm_source=Selligent&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20846&utm_content=20200716_Coronavirus_Infographic+&utm_term=194127&m_i=aZV1u6ZtJ7xrzhrtiWszhi7tSla%2B5%2BiBtzumxjLXfn 9Onm6WfNW0kTTmicw57dD_3rUBzxUONWd4vFJu54yezJR_B%2B 9UX3)

50% ? seems like a low bar




considering the fact that over 50 pct of usa will have had covid by the time Vax is available right after the election i think its right on target

[DarrinS]

https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2020/07/16/san-antonio-researchers-seek-500-600-participants-for-covid-19-vaccine-trial/

[tholdren]

https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2020/07/16/san-antonio-researchers-seek-500-600-participants-for-covid-19-vaccine-trial/

At best, the entire process could take several months, but Denham says the vaccine could be available to the public as early as the end of this year or the beginning of 2021

[Winehole23]

Novavax has been around for 33 years. If they bring a vaccine for COVID-19 to market, it will be their very first successful vaccine.

1284141085598650371

[Blake]

Novavax has been around for 33 years. If they bring a vaccine for COVID-19 to market, it will be their very first successful vaccine.

1284141085598650371

Smh

[boutons_deux]

Smh

Who had shares in Novavax? who had insider knowledge about the $1.6B deal? Kushner? Kushner's friends? etc, etc

check share price history

https://www.google.com/search?q=novavax+shares+up&oq=novavax+shares+up&aqs=chrome..69i57.5450j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I'm absolutely sure there was insider / advance knowledge share purchases.

$5 up to now $140

[boutons_deux]

Breakthrough blood test detects positive COVID-19 result in 20 minutes

researchers were able to identify recent COVID-19 cases using 25 microlitres of plasma from blood samples.

developed a simple agglutination assay -

an analysis to determine the presence and amount of a substance in blood -

to detect the presence of antibodies raised in response to the SARS-CoV-2 infection.

Positive COVID-19 cases caused an agglutination or a clustering of red blood cells,

which was easily identifiable to the naked eye.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-07/mu-bbt071620.php

[Blake]

Who had shares in Novavax? who had insider knowledge about the $1.6B deal? Kushner? Kushner's friends? etc, etc

check share price history

https://www.google.com/search?q=novavax+shares+up&oq=novavax+shares+up&aqs=chrome..69i57.5450j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I'm absolutely sure there was insider / advance knowledge share purchases.

$5 up to now $140

Absolutely no doubt of insider trading, imo.

Absolutely nothing will happen to anyone, imo

[DarrinS]

Anyone volunteer for the Moderna trial?

[tholdren]

Absolutely no doubt of insider trading, imo.

Absolutely nothing will happen to anyone, imo

Yet all the doctors you have cited work for Pfizer. You are blind

[Blake]

Yet all the doctors you have cited work for Pfizer. You are blind

Lol liar

[pgardn]

Oxford has put some stuff out along with T-cell response.
And the BBC does a little tally on most of the vaccines being made and tested and what phase they are in.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53469839

[boutons_deux]

How a Potential Treatment for the Coronavirus Turned Up in a Scientist’s Freezer

“I think, if you asked coronavirologists,

what has happened now is perhaps beyond even their imagination.

We were all surprised.”

https://www.newyorker.com/science/elements/how-a-potential-treatment-for-the-coronavirus-turned-up-in-a-scientists-freezer (https://www.newyorker.com/science/elements/how-a-potential-treatment-for-the-coronavirus-turned-up-in-a-scientists-freezer?utm_source=nl&utm_brand=tny&utm_mailing=TNY_Daily_072020&utm_campaign=aud-dev&utm_medium=email&bxid=5bd6795524c17c1048022fcc&cndid=43758549&hasha=992d608214b505003aa04bf10a595031&hashb=542eb31d958e85ddd5a4c3ccf3faae18526a77bd&hashc=54b3612ab970ce13a64a16665b1987080ca5b72e2ee7 62b722fbba6ab378f2f5&esrc=bounceX&utm_term=TNY_Daily)

[TSA]

The people with hidden immunity against Covid-19

Several studies have shown that people infected with Covid-19 tend to have T cells that can target the virus, regardless of whether they have experienced symptoms. So far, so normal. But scientists have also recently discovered that some people can test negative for antibodies against Covid-19 and positive for T cells that can identify the virus. This has led to suspicions that some level of immunity against the disease might be twice as common as was previously thought.

Most bizarrely of all, when researchers tested blood samples taken years before the pandemic started, they found T cells which were specifically tailored to detect proteins on the surface of Covid-19. This suggests that some people already had a pre-existing degree of resistance against the virus before it ever infected a human. And it appears to be surprisingly prevalent: 40-60% of unexposed individuals had these cells.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200716-the-people-with-hidden-protection-from-covid-19

[midnightpulp]

The people with hidden immunity against Covid-19

Several studies have shown that people infected with Covid-19 tend to have T cells that can target the virus, regardless of whether they have experienced symptoms. So far, so normal. But scientists have also recently discovered that some people can test negative for antibodies against Covid-19 and positive for T cells that can identify the virus. This has led to suspicions that some level of immunity against the disease might be twice as common as was previously thought.

Most bizarrely of all, when researchers tested blood samples taken years before the pandemic started, they found T cells which were specifically tailored to detect proteins on the surface of Covid-19. This suggests that some people already had a pre-existing degree of resistance against the virus before it ever infected a human. And it appears to be surprisingly prevalent: 40-60% of unexposed individuals had these cells.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200716-the-people-with-hidden-protection-from-covid-19

As I've earlier ITT, I would love for nature to come to the rescue so Big Pharma can eat shit on their vaccine development, but what gives me pause about natural immunity being a consistent fact across populations is how many outbreaks in prisons, ships, and in neighborhoods saw infection rates over 60 percent, meaning not many were naturally immune (if 40 to 60 percent were naturally immune, the herd immunity threshold would've been in 10-20 percent). This phenomenon needs more study before it's justified to attempt any kind of herd immunity strategy.

[DarrinS]

As I've earlier ITT, I would love for nature to come to the rescue so Big Pharma can eat shit on their vaccine development, but what gives me pause about natural immunity being a consistent fact across populations is how many outbreaks in prisons, ships, and in neighborhoods saw infection rates over 60 percent, meaning not many were naturally immune (if 40 to 60 percent were naturally immune, the herd immunity threshold would've been in 10-20 percent). This phenomenon needs more study before it's justified to attempt any kind of herd immunity strategy.


Couldn't you theoretically be infected, test positive, and still have these T-cells which fight off the infection?

The PCR test can pick up very low levels of virus.

[midnightpulp]

Couldn't you theoretically be infected, test positive, and still have these T-cells which fight off the infection?

The PCR test can pick up very low levels of virus.

Not sure. I think so from what I've read.

[tholdren]

Not sure. I think so from what I've read.

you cant even understand death reporting.

Lololol

Tell us about probables..

Bwahahahahhahaha

[ElNono]

you cant even understand death reporting.

Lololol

Tell us about probables..

Bwahahahahhahaha

Wrong

[pgardn]

Couldn't you theoretically be infected, test positive, and still have these T-cells which fight off the infection?

The PCR test can pick up very low levels of virus.

Yes.

Preliminary studies indicate the viral load must be large for people to infect someone with a functioning immune system.
It looks like this virus may produce very large loads during certain periods in many people and do well in the air, not a good combination.

More to come.

[TSA]

Why are people stanning hydroxychloroquine? If it's efficacious in some circumstances, great. But choosing that hill to die on when there are other more promising treatments is beyond me.

I don't see anyone here stanning hydroxychloroquine. I've posted studies on anything that looks like it could be promising and hydroyxchloroquine could be one of them. Certain members here continuously try and shit on it just because of Trump. How bad does one's TDS have to be to that someone is rooting against something saving lives to try and dunk on Trump. It's pathetic.

Hydroxychloroquine could save up to 100,000 lives if used for COVID-19: Yale epidemiology professor

Dr. Harvey Risch, an epidemiology professor at Yale School of Public Health, said on Tuesday that he thinks hydroxychloroquine could save 75,000 to 100,000 lives if the drug is widely used to treat coronavirus.

“There are many doctors that I’ve gotten hostile remarks about saying that all the evidence is bad for it and, in fact, that is not true at all,” Risch told “Ingraham Angle," adding that he believes the drug can be used as a "prophylactic" for front-line workers, as other countries like India have done.

Risch lamented that a "propaganda war" is being waged against the use of the drug for political purposes, not based on "medical facts."

Researchers at the Henry Ford Health System in Southeast Michigan have found that early administration of hydroxychloroquine makes hospitalized patients substantially less likely to die.

The study, published in the International Journal of Infectious Diseases, determined that hydroxychloroquine provided a "66 percent hazard ratio reduction," and hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin a 71 percent reduction, compared with neither treatment.

In-hospital mortality was 18.1 percent overall; 13.5 percent with just hydroxychloroquine, 22.4 percent with azithromycin alone, and 26.4 percent with neither drug. "Prospective trials are needed" for further review, the researchers note, even as they concluded: "In this multi-hospital assessment, when controlling for COVID-19 risk factors, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with reduction in COVID-19 associated mortality."

"Our results do differ from some other studies," Dr. Marcus Zervos, who heads the hospital's infectious diseases unit, said at a news conference. "What we think was important in ours ... is that patients were treated early. For hydroxychloroquine to have a benefit, it needs to begin before the patients begin to suffer some of the severe immune reactions that patients can have with COVID."

https://www.foxnews.com/media/hydroxychloroquine-could-save-lives-ingraham-yale-professor.amp?__twitter_impression=true

[spurraider21]

I don't see anyone here stanning hydroxychloroquine. I've posted studies on anything that looks like it could be promising and hydroyxchloroquine could be one of them. Certain members here continuously try and shit on it just because of Trump. How bad does one's TDS have to be to that someone is rooting against something saving lives to try and dunk on Trump. It's pathetic.

Hydroxychloroquine could save up to 100,000 lives if used for COVID-19: Yale epidemiology professor

Dr. Harvey Risch, an epidemiology professor at Yale School of Public Health, said on Tuesday that he thinks hydroxychloroquine could save 75,000 to 100,000 lives if the drug is widely used to treat coronavirus.

“There are many doctors that I’ve gotten hostile remarks about saying that all the evidence is bad for it and, in fact, that is not true at all,” Risch told “Ingraham Angle," adding that he believes the drug can be used as a "prophylactic" for front-line workers, as other countries like India have done.

Risch lamented that a "propaganda war" is being waged against the use of the drug for political purposes, not based on "medical facts."

Researchers at the Henry Ford Health System in Southeast Michigan have found that early administration of hydroxychloroquine makes hospitalized patients substantially less likely to die.

The study, published in the International Journal of Infectious Diseases, determined that hydroxychloroquine provided a "66 percent hazard ratio reduction," and hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin a 71 percent reduction, compared with neither treatment.

In-hospital mortality was 18.1 percent overall; 13.5 percent with just hydroxychloroquine, 22.4 percent with azithromycin alone, and 26.4 percent with neither drug. "Prospective trials are needed" for further review, the researchers note, even as they concluded: "In this multi-hospital assessment, when controlling for COVID-19 risk factors, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with reduction in COVID-19 associated mortality."

"Our results do differ from some other studies," Dr. Marcus Zervos, who heads the hospital's infectious diseases unit, said at a news conference. "What we think was important in ours ... is that patients were treated early. For hydroxychloroquine to have a benefit, it needs to begin before the patients begin to suffer some of the severe immune reactions that patients can have with COVID."

https://www.foxnews.com/media/hydroxychloroquine-could-save-lives-ingraham-yale-professor.amp?__twitter_impression=true
i think every person here has said they hoped hydroxychloroquine would pan out. its still irresponsible for anybody, let alone the president with his massive reach, to be claiming we have a miracle drug when that had not been clinically demonstrated because it causes people to drop their guard when we are far from being out of the woods

how strong does your TDS have to be to be constantly downplaying every aspect of the virus?

[midnightpulp]

I don't see anyone here stanning hydroxychloroquine. I've posted studies on anything that looks like it could be promising and hydroyxchloroquine could be one of them. Certain members here continuously try and shit on it just because of Trump. How bad does one's TDS have to be to that someone is rooting against something saving lives to try and dunk on Trump. It's pathetic.

Hydroxychloroquine could save up to 100,000 lives if used for COVID-19: Yale epidemiology professor

Dr. Harvey Risch, an epidemiology professor at Yale School of Public Health, said on Tuesday that he thinks hydroxychloroquine could save 75,000 to 100,000 lives if the drug is widely used to treat coronavirus.

“There are many doctors that I’ve gotten hostile remarks about saying that all the evidence is bad for it and, in fact, that is not true at all,” Risch told “Ingraham Angle," adding that he believes the drug can be used as a "prophylactic" for front-line workers, as other countries like India have done.

Risch lamented that a "propaganda war" is being waged against the use of the drug for political purposes, not based on "medical facts."

Researchers at the Henry Ford Health System in Southeast Michigan have found that early administration of hydroxychloroquine makes hospitalized patients substantially less likely to die.

The study, published in the International Journal of Infectious Diseases, determined that hydroxychloroquine provided a "66 percent hazard ratio reduction," and hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin a 71 percent reduction, compared with neither treatment.

In-hospital mortality was 18.1 percent overall; 13.5 percent with just hydroxychloroquine, 22.4 percent with azithromycin alone, and 26.4 percent with neither drug. "Prospective trials are needed" for further review, the researchers note, even as they concluded: "In this multi-hospital assessment, when controlling for COVID-19 risk factors, treatment with hydroxychloroquine alone and in combination with azithromycin was associated with reduction in COVID-19 associated mortality."

"Our results do differ from some other studies," Dr. Marcus Zervos, who heads the hospital's infectious diseases unit, said at a news conference. "What we think was important in ours ... is that patients were treated early. For hydroxychloroquine to have a benefit, it needs to begin before the patients begin to suffer some of the severe immune reactions that patients can have with COVID."

https://www.foxnews.com/media/hydroxychloroquine-could-save-lives-ingraham-yale-professor.amp?__twitter_impression=true

The Ford study has some flaws.


The study that sparked the latest controversy was anything but randomized. Not only was it not randomized, outside experts noted, but patients who received hydroxychloroquine were also more likely to get steroids, which appear to help very sick patients with Covid-19. That is likely to have influenced the central finding of the Henry Ford study: that death rates were 50% lower among patients in hospitals treated with hydroxychloroquine.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/08/a-flawed-covid-19-study-gets-the-white-houses-attention-and-the-fda-may-pay-the-price/

Terrible methodology. Recent studies on hydroxy.

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-4207


Conclusion:

Hydroxychloroquine did not substantially reduce symptom severity in outpatients with early, mild COVID-19.

And I know the response to this is that it might have a prophylactic benefit, but that would be tricky study to implement. You have to purposely infect people (unethical) and you wouldn't know it was the drug that reduced symptom severity or the patient's own biology.

[midnightpulp]

i think every person here has said they hoped hydroxychloroquine would pan out. its still irresponsible for anybody, let alone the president with his massive reach, to be claiming we have a miracle drug when that had not been clinically demonstrated because it causes people to drop their guard when we are far from being out of the woods

how strong does your TDS have to be to be constantly downplaying every aspect of the virus?

Trump Devotion Syndrome?

Here's honestly the best prevention we have against Covid severity right now: Don't be fat. Wear a mask, social distance, and practice good hygiene. You still might get infected doing the latter, but if you get infected while wearing mask or social distancing, the viral load will be reduced and lead to a chance of a better outcome.

[boutons_deux]

what is the dosage per day in grams/Kg of bodyweight for HCQ?

Dubious HCQ has side effects.

https://www.rxlist.com/plaquenil-side-effects-drug-center.htm

Bannon acolyte TSA every day "flooding the zone with shit"

[TSA]

i think every person here has said they hoped hydroxychloroquine would pan out. its still irresponsible for anybody, let alone the president with his massive reach, to be claiming we have a miracle drug when that had not been clinically demonstrated because it causes people to drop their guard when we are far from being out of the woods

how strong does your TDS have to be to be constantly downplaying every aspect of the virus?

Are you accusing me of downplaying every aspect of the virus? I mock the fear porn the media pushes and call out bullshit when I see it, that isn't downplaying every aspect of the virus.

[TSA]

The Ford study has some flaws.



https://www.statnews.com/2020/07/08/a-flawed-covid-19-study-gets-the-white-houses-attention-and-the-fda-may-pay-the-price/

Terrible methodology. Recent studies on hydroxy.

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-4207



And I know the response to this is that it might have a prophylactic benefit, but that would be tricky study to implement. You have to purposely infect people (unethical) and you wouldn't know it was the drug that reduced symptom severity or the patient's own biology.

Stepped out on a limb there with that one considering it being used as a prophylactic was right there in the article :lol

"Dr. Harvey Risch, an epidemiology professor at Yale School of Public Health, said on Tuesday that he thinks hydroxychloroquine could save 75,000 to 100,000 lives if the drug is widely used to treat coronavirus.

“There are many doctors that I’ve gotten hostile remarks about saying that all the evidence is bad for it and, in fact, that is not true at all,” Risch told “Ingraham Angle," adding that he believes the drug can be used as a "prophylactic" for front-line workers, as other countries like India have done."

[TSA]

i think every person here has said they hoped hydroxychloroquine would pan out. its still irresponsible for anybody, let alone the president with his massive reach, to be claiming we have a miracle drug when that had not been clinically demonstrated because it causes people to drop their guard when we are far from being out of the woods

how strong does your TDS have to be to be constantly downplaying every aspect of the virus?

Equally irresponsible was the study published in the Lancet that ElNono posted that ended up being retracted. Trials were halted and many will never start again because people were wrongfully scared about hydroxychloroquine deaths and now won't participate in trials.

[midnightpulp]

Stepped out on a limb there with that one considering it being used as a prophylactic was right there in the article :lol

"Dr. Harvey Risch, an epidemiology professor at Yale School of Public Health, said on Tuesday that he thinks hydroxychloroquine could save 75,000 to 100,000 lives if the drug is widely used to treat coronavirus.

“There are many doctors that I’ve gotten hostile remarks about saying that all the evidence is bad for it and, in fact, that is not true at all,” Risch told “Ingraham Angle," adding that he believes the drug can be used as a "prophylactic" for front-line workers, as other countries like India have done."

He's going to have to produce some studies instead of anecdotes. We don't know if it works as a prophylactic. If India's frontline line workers are dying at a lower rate than ours, it could be any number of things. Indians are thinner. They live in a sunnier environment year around vs. many of the hardest hit regions (the Vitamin D theory). Etc, etc.

Problem is any objective study would be unethical. That said, I have nothing against taking it as a better safe than sorry measure, but the problem is it could cause shortages of the drug for Lupus patients and such.

[DarrinS]

Trump Devotion Syndrome?

Here's honestly the best prevention we have against Covid severity right now: Don't be fat. Wear a mask, social distance, and practice good hygiene. You still might get infected doing the latter, but if you get infected while wearing mask or social distancing, the viral load will be reduced and lead to a chance of a better outcome.


Also, don't be vitamin D deficient.

[midnightpulp]

Are you accusing me of downplaying every aspect of the virus? I mock the fear porn the media pushes and call out bullshit when I see it, that isn't downplaying every aspect of the virus.

I don't like fear porn, either, but the Team Reality contingent has been proven massively wrong and has likely done more harm than good with their shitty information since I know it wound up on the screens of governors hungry for a reopening.

1285573744946221056

You can see my replies to Hart in that thread (Slap Jackson).

My point is in your effort to challenge fear porn, you're following the opinions of people who really don't know what they're talking about or doing and might be acting in bad faith. Not calling you out, just a heads up that no one who does know what they are talking about takes Team Reality seriously. They've been proven wrong at every pass.

[spurraider21]

Equally irresponsible was the study published in the Lancet that ElNono posted that ended up being retracted. Trials were halted and many will never start again because people were wrongfully scared about hydroxychloroquine deaths and now won't participate in trials.
agreed that the authors were irresponsible because they never got the database info audited in any way. i dont blame somebody like elnono for disseminating something which has purportedly gone through peer review and been published

it was correctly retracted, but yes, damage done.

[DarrinS]

Yes.

Preliminary studies indicate the viral load must be large for people to infect someone with a functioning immune system.
It looks like this virus may produce very large loads during certain periods in many people and do well in the air, not a good combination.

More to come.


It seems to me that you could get enough virus in your nose to trigger a positive PCR, but not necessarily become infectious.

[vy65]

Thus, infection with betacoronaviruses induces multispecific and long-lasting T cell immunity to the structural protein NP. Understanding how pre-existing NP- and ORF-1-specific T cells present in the general population impact susceptibility and pathogenesis of SARS-CoV-2 infection is of paramount importance for the management of the current COVID-19 pandemic.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2550-z

[vy65]

Yes.

Preliminary studies indicate the viral load must be large for people to infect someone with a functioning immune system.
It looks like this virus may produce very large loads during certain periods in many people and do well in the air, not a good combination.

More to come.

Bend over and I’ll show you a large load during a certain period

[TSA]

agreed that the authors were irresponsible because they never got the database info audited in any way. i dont blame somebody like elnono for disseminating something which has purportedly gone through peer review and been published

it was correctly retracted, but yes, damage done.

Was hoping it didn't come off like that but I'm not blaming ElNono nor calling him irresponsible in any way for posting it here.

[TSA]

He's going to have to produce some studies instead of anecdotes. We don't know if it works as a prophylactic. If India's frontline line workers are dying at a lower rate than ours, it could be any number of things. Indians are thinner. They live in a sunnier environment year around vs. many of the hardest hit regions (the Vitamin D theory). Etc, etc.

Problem is any objective study would be unethical. That said, I have nothing against taking it as a better safe than sorry measure, but the problem is it could cause shortages of the drug for Lupus patients and such.

There are trials being done here.

Study Description

Brief Summary:

The study is a double-blind, randomised, placebo-controlled trial that will be conducted in healthcare settings and other facilities directly involved in COVID-19 case management. We will recruit healthcare workers and other staff working in a facility where there are cases of either proven, or suspected, COVID-19, who can be followed reliably for 5 months. 40,000 participants will be recruited and we predict an average of 400-800 participants per site in 50-100 sites.

The participant will be randomised to receive either chloroquine or placebo (1:1 randomisation), or to hydroxychloroquine or placebo (1:1 randomisation). A loading dose of 10mg base/kg (four 155mg tablets for a 60kg subject), followed by 155 mg daily (250mg chloroquine phosphate salt/ 200mg hydroxychloroquine sulphate) will be taken for 3 months.

If the participant is diagnosed with COVID-19, they will take continue to take the study medication until:

90 days after enrolment (i.e., completion of kit)
hospitalised due to COVID-19 disease (i.e., not for quarantine purposes) in which case they will stop, or
advised to stop by their healthcare professional for other reasons

Episodes of symptomatic respiratory illness, including symptomatic COVID-19, and clinical outcomes will be recorded in the Case Record Form during the follow-up period.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04303507


There is one exception. Many researchers agree that a good case can be made for continuing to test whether hydroxychloroquine can prevent infection if given to people just in case they get exposed to the virus, for instance on the job at a hospital—a strategy called pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP). “You have a much better chance of preventing something with a weak drug than you have of curing a fully established infection,” says White, who runs one of the largest PrEP trials. He notes that doxycycline, an antibiotic, has long been used in malaria prophylaxis. “We would never treat anybody with it, it’s too weak. But it’s a very good prophylactic.”

Landray, however, is on the fence about continuing prophylaxis trials: “I suspect it’s one of these decisions where there isn’t a right or wrong.” It’s an important question, Bhadelia says, because an effective PrEP drug could have a major impact on the pandemic. Hydroxychloroquine, a cheap and widely available drug, is one of the few compounds that could fit the bill.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/three-big-studies-dim-hopes-hydroxychloroquine-can-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

[midnightpulp]

There are trials being done here.

Study Description

Brief Summary:

The study is a double-blind, randomised, placebo-controlled trial that will be conducted in healthcare settings and other facilities directly involved in COVID-19 case management. We will recruit healthcare workers and other staff working in a facility where there are cases of either proven, or suspected, COVID-19, who can be followed reliably for 5 months. 40,000 participants will be recruited and we predict an average of 400-800 participants per site in 50-100 sites.

The participant will be randomised to receive either chloroquine or placebo (1:1 randomisation), or to hydroxychloroquine or placebo (1:1 randomisation). A loading dose of 10mg base/kg (four 155mg tablets for a 60kg subject), followed by 155 mg daily (250mg chloroquine phosphate salt/ 200mg hydroxychloroquine sulphate) will be taken for 3 months.

If the participant is diagnosed with COVID-19, they will take continue to take the study medication until:

90 days after enrolment (i.e., completion of kit)
hospitalised due to COVID-19 disease (i.e., not for quarantine purposes) in which case they will stop, or
advised to stop by their healthcare professional for other reasons

Episodes of symptomatic respiratory illness, including symptomatic COVID-19, and clinical outcomes will be recorded in the Case Record Form during the follow-up period.

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04303507


There is one exception. Many researchers agree that a good case can be made for continuing to test whether hydroxychloroquine can prevent infection if given to people just in case they get exposed to the virus, for instance on the job at a hospital—a strategy called pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP). “You have a much better chance of preventing something with a weak drug than you have of curing a fully established infection,” says White, who runs one of the largest PrEP trials. He notes that doxycycline, an antibiotic, has long been used in malaria prophylaxis. “We would never treat anybody with it, it’s too weak. But it’s a very good prophylactic.”

Landray, however, is on the fence about continuing prophylaxis trials: “I suspect it’s one of these decisions where there isn’t a right or wrong.” It’s an important question, Bhadelia says, because an effective PrEP drug could have a major impact on the pandemic. Hydroxychloroquine, a cheap and widely available drug, is one of the few compounds that could fit the bill.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/three-big-studies-dim-hopes-hydroxychloroquine-can-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

If it doesn't cause shortages for people who need it, then why not. Really nothing to lose.

[Blake]

Are you accusing me of downplaying every aspect of the virus? I mock the fear porn the media pushes and call out bullshit when I see it, that isn't downplaying every aspect of the virus.

Because Gummi knows best

[boutons_deux]

a successful vaccine won't save save Trash's LOSER CRIMINAL ASS

When Trash loses, how many Ms of documents and emails will Barr delete?

war criminal Dubya's gang deleted several M emails on private servers.

[pgardn]

It seems to me that you could get enough virus in your nose to trigger a positive PCR, but not necessarily become infectious.

That is a possibility.
But weighing the risk....
+ also includes 6 cats and 5 dogs a tiger and a lion at last count.
But I think this is just for entertainment interest.
And I would rather be with the + cats and dogs than + people.

I would not like being with the live large cats whatever their situation.

[pgardn]

Bend over and I’ll show you a large load during a certain period

I will take a pass on that.

[diego]

this isnt so much about treatment, as about containment, but since the point of this thread is to be less political and more scientific I thought this was really interesting:

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-exemplar-vietnam

Development timelines of diagnostic test kits:

February 7, 2020: Test kit developed by Hanoi University of Science and Technology. Testing method: RT-LAMP (reverse transcription loop-mediated isothermal amplification). Cost: US$15. Testing time: 70 minutes.
March 3, 2020: Test kit developed by Vietnam Academy of Science and Technology. Testing method: real-time RT-PCR (reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction). Cost: less than US$21. Testing time: 80 minutes from receiving a sample.
March 5, 2020: Test kits developed by Military Medical University, commercialized by Viet A. Cost: US$19–$25. Testing method: RT-PCR and real-time RT-PCR. Testing time: over one hour (quicker than the two-step Charité protocol) but has testing capacity four times the number of samples as the CDC kit.26 The Viet A test has been certified by the European Union and other authorities and is now being exported to other countries, although WHO certification is still pending as of May 2020.27
April 28, 2020: Production and launch of the RT-LAMP kit and RT-PCR kit28,29 commercialized by Thai Duong company.
Testing capacity also ramped up quickly, from just two testing sites nationwide in late January to 120 by May. As of May, Sixty-three sites were able to confirm testing (i.e., analyze the results of any given test).30 Given its low case numbers, the country decided on a strategy of using testing to identify clusters and prevent wider transmission. When community transmission was detected (even just one case), the government reacted quickly with contact tracing, commune-level lockdowns, and widespread local testing to ensure no cases were missed. This helps explain why Vietnam has performed more tests per confirmedcase than any other country in the world—by a longshot—even though testing per capita remains relatively low.

There is a very small window in which to track and quarantine contacts before they become infectious. The incubation period between contact with the virus and start of symptoms is on average five days. Infectiousness begins two days before symptoms. Therefore, there is a period of only three days from the point of contact with a case to find and quarantine contacts before they could potentially infect others. It is critical to move fast, mobilize the contract-tracing apparatus, and locate the contacts.

The process in Vietnam worked as follows:

Once a patient with COVID-19 is identified (F0), local public health officials, with support from health professionals, security officers, the military, and other civil servants, work with the patient to identify who they might have been in contact with and infected in the past 14 days.
All close contacts (F1), defined as people who have been within approximately 6 feet (2 meters) of or have prolonged contact of 30 or more minutes with a confirmed COVID-19 case, are identified by this process and tested for the virus.
If F1s test positive for the virus, they are placed in isolation at a hospital—all COVID-19 patients are hospitalized at no cost in Vietnam, regardless of symptoms.
If F1s do not test positive, they are quarantined at a government-run quarantine center for 14 days.
Close contacts of the previously identified close contacts (F2s) are required to self-isolate at home for 14 days.
One noteworthy aspect of Vietnam’s approach is that it identified and quarantined suspected cases based on their epidemiological risk of infection (if they had contact with a confirmed case or traveled to a COVID-19 affected country), not whether they exhibited symptoms. The high proportion of cases that never developed symptoms (43 percent) suggests that this approach may have been a key contributor to limiting community transmission at an early stage.31

Many lessons from Vietnam are applicable to other countries, including:

Investment in a public health infrastructure (e.g., emergency operations centers and surveillance systems) enables countries to have a head start in managing public health crises effectively. Vietnam learned lessons from SARS and avian influenza, and other countries can learn those same lessons from COVID-19.
Early action, ranging from border closures to testing to lockdowns, can curb community spread before it gets out of control.
Thorough contact tracing can help facilitate a targeted containment strategy.
Quarantines based on possible exposure, rather than symptoms only, can reduce asymptomatic and presymptomatic transmission.
Clear communication is crucial. A clear, consistent, and serious narrative is important throughout the crisis.
A strong whole-of-society approach engages multi-sectoral stakeholders in decision-making process and activate cohesive participation of appropriate measures.
Vietnam began to lift its national lockdown on April 22. Schools opened between May 4 and May 11. Public transportation, domestic flights, and taxis are now allowed to operate, but international flights remain grounded. Everyone must wear a mask in public.51

Since April 16, Vietnam recorded no new cases of COVID-19 related to community spread. However, as more Vietnamese citizens are repatriated into the country, 54 positive cases have been detected in airports and in quarantine centers.

This next phase of Vietnam’s COVID-19 journey will be important to watch. The big question is how and when will Vietnam open up their borders, and will it be able to maintain this success when it does?

vietnam has 0 covid deaths.

[Winehole23]

this isnt so much about treatment, as about containment, but since the point of this thread is to be less political and more scientific I thought this was really interesting:

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-exemplar-vietnam




vietnam has 0 covid deaths.Perhaps the lesson of containment can be reserved for a future US pandemic.

[DarrinS]

Perhaps the lesson of containment can be reserved for a future US pandemic.


Containment is a very unrealistic strategy for a virus like this one.

[Winehole23]

Containment is a very unrealistic strategy for a virus like this one.Currently working for Vietnam. Are you following the thread?

[Trainwreck2100]

Containment is a very unrealistic strategy for a virus like this one.

if we ever do get a handle on it containment is the only way to snuff it out

[spurraider21]

Containment is a very unrealistic strategy for a virus like this one.
might as well throw nationwide covid parties and just have a culling of the heard then

[boutons_deux]

Here are the most promising coronavirus vaccine candidates out there


https://www.livescience.com/most-promising-coronavirus-vaccine-candidates.html (https://www.livescience.com/most-promising-coronavirus-vaccine-candidates.html?utm_source=Selligent&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=21183&utm_content=20200724_Coronavirus_Infographic+&utm_term=194127&m_i=dStKiGVdVptxmroAy7Lh8GcEK4EJPuCPd9R3V1TGDdy0mz aAlaJzD_XQafSp%2BxB68j5vLjdydbcSiI%2BscAZXMVfAot53 HH)

[Blake]

might as well throw nationwide covid parties and just have a culling of the heard then

Just kill the elderly and at risk people already. I'm tired of hearing about covid.

[Winehole23]

Contact tracing isn't a treatment, but it is important for locating outbreaks. Is there some reason old fashioned, plain vanilla, interview based contact tracing isn't appropriate for the USA?

If it is appropriate, why don't we have it already? What's the hold up?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/contact-tracing-a-key-way-to-slow-covid-19-is-badly-underused-by-the-u-s/

[Blake]

Contact tracing isn't a treatment, but it is important for locating outbreaks. Is there some reason old fashioned, plain vanilla, interview based contact tracing isn't appropriate for the USA?

If it is appropriate, why don't we have it already? What's the hold up?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/contact-tracing-a-key-way-to-slow-covid-19-is-badly-underused-by-the-u-s/

I didn't read but I'm gonna guess there's a big enough crowd that's terrified big brother will take over their lives if they participate.

[boutons_deux]

"Containment is a very unrealistic strategy for a virus like this one."

yes, C19 in USA is very different from all other industrial countries that have knocked cases WAY down from each country's peak,

while in USA ...

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&casesMetric=true&dailyFreq=true&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&country=USA~CHE~AUT~BEL~DNK~FIN~FRA~DEU~IRL~ITA~NO R~ESP~SWE~GBR&pickerMetric=location&pickerSort=asc

[Splits]

might as well throw nationwide covid parties and just have a culling of the heard then

https://i.redd.it/ivtfehb8nqu01.png


Far Cry 5 ftw

[DarrinS]

"Containment" just puts off the inevitable, unless the original source country did it.

[spurraider21]

"Containment" just puts off the inevitable, unless the original source country did it.
arite man, then just stop tap-dancing around it and say its time to cull the herd. lets just get a few more hundreds of thousands of deaths out of the way now so we can go back to work and stop worrying about it, and when it comes to the unknown long-term effects of COVID, we'll just cross that bridge when it comes

[ChumpDumper]

"Containment" just puts off the inevitable, unless the original source country did it.What number of deaths per million do you consider inevitable?

[DarrinS]

"Flatten the curve" -- remember that?

It just means that we should try to avoid getting it at the same time.

It never meant eliminating the virus from existence.

[spurraider21]

"Flatten the curve" -- remember that?

It just means that we should try to avoid getting it at the same time.

It never meant eliminating the virus from existence.
yeah it doesnt mean flatten the curve initially and then unflatten it. look man, just say its time to cull the herd. i mean if you're going to have such an awful opinion, at least show a modicum of dignity and be honest about it

[ChumpDumper]

"Flatten the curve" -- remember that?

It just means that we should try to avoid getting it at the same time.

It never meant eliminating the virus from existence.Yes, I know you're part of the get out there and die already crowd.

If it's inevitable, how many deaths should countries just go ahead and put up with to meet your goal?

I put it in deaths per million so we can scale it for other countries.

[ChumpDumper]

I remember "flatten the curve."

I don't remember the "then shoot the curve straight up and kill people quickly so I can go to the bar" corollary.

[Winehole23]

yeah it doesnt mean flatten the curve initially and then unflatten it. look man, just say its time to cull the herd. i mean if you're going to have such an awful opinion, at least show a modicum of dignity and be honest about itEven though our inept response caused avoidable mass death and an epochal depression, the narrative is that the economic status quo ante that caused the failures is the only reality worth saving.

[DarrinS]

arite man, then just stop tap-dancing around it and say its time to cull the herd. lets just get a few more hundreds of thousands of deaths out of the way now so we can go back to work and stop worrying about it, and when it comes to the unknown long-term effects of COVID, we'll just cross that bridge when it comes

You can have a "stay at home" policy -- the home is where most people get infected. Some Florida mayors recently advised people in multi-generational households to wear masks at home. Maybe that will make a dent?

In San Antonio, the pandemic is VERY largely driven by Hispanic population -- disproportionately so. Maybe our mayor should give similar advice about masks at home?

[Blake]

"Containment" just puts off the inevitable, unless the original source country did it.

You're like a broken record with this negativity

[Blake]

You can have a "stay at home" policy -- the home is where most people get infected. Some Florida mayors recently advised people in multi-generational households to wear masks at home. Maybe that will make a dent?

In San Antonio, the pandemic is VERY largely driven by Hispanic population -- disproportionately so. Maybe our mayor should give similar advice about masks at home?

The subtle racist stat

[Blake]

Yes, I know you're part of the get out there and die already crowd.

If it's inevitable, how many deaths should countries just go ahead and put up with to meet your goal?

I put it in deaths per million so we can scale it for other countries.

That question will never be answered by the "it's inevitable" crowd

[DarrinS]

The subtle racist stat

The data is racist

[Winehole23]

DarrinS with the knowing avunvular tone again

[DarrinS]

You're like a broken record with this negativity

I'm actually very optimistic. I believe only about 20% needs to be infected before herd immunity. I also think therapeutics are way better now (remember, "we need 40K ventilators" ?). And, I think significant progress is being made on the vaccine side.

[DarrinS]

DarrinS with the knowing avunvular tone again

Wut?

[Winehole23]

Now Panglossian

[DarrinS]

Now Panglossian

No. :lol

[DarrinS]

Locally, 5th straight day of decreasing hospitalization. Trending in the right direction.

Only 200-something new cases.

[tholdren]

Locally, 5th straight day of decreasing hospitalization. Trending in the right direction.

Only 200-something new cases.

Its been trending down for weeks

[DarrinS]

My zip code has just north of 200 CUMULATIVE cases and zero deaths for population of 30K.

[tholdren]

My zip code has just north of 200 CUMULATIVE cases and zero deaths for population of 30K.

There are only 35 zip codes reporting problems. IN THE WHOLE USA

[ChumpDumper]

There are only 35 zip codes reporting problems. IN THE WHOLE USAList them.

[DarrinS]

List them.

Two are probably Texas border towns.

[ChumpDumper]

Two are probably Texas border towns.As long as it's not happening to you directly fuck everyone else. We get it.

[tholdren]

List them.

You cant figure it out? So that means you are posting without data? So gossip.

Chumpdump wrong gossip

[tholdren]

Two are probably Texas border towns.

Only star county

[ChumpDumper]

YouIt's your claim.

And now it's gossip.

:lol so easy to make you fold.

[DarrinS]

As long as it's not happening to you directly fuck everyone else. We get it.

Just pointing out the problems with Hidalgo and Cameron counties. I'm not saying "fuck them".

[tholdren]

Hidalgo was in there a few days ago

[ChumpDumper]

Just pointing out the problems with Hidalgo and Cameron counties. I'm not saying "fuck them".Thank goodness you can point out people doing worse than you.

[tholdren]

Thank goodness you can point out people doing worse than you.

thank goodness for your sea lion trolling

[ChumpDumper]

thank goodness for your sea lion trollingCOVID turned you into ducks.

[DarrinS]

Thank goodness you can point out people doing worse than you.

Uh, ok?

I could point out people doing better. Would you like that?

[ChumpDumper]

Uh, ok?

I could point out people doing better. Would you like that?You actively ignore the countries who have done better.