Spurs trade ideas

[scott]

Per Vecenie: Beal is unmovable, regardless of the No Trade Clause. No one wants him and that contract.

I'm not connected like Sam Vecenie is, but that seems to pass the smell test.

[LeBowen]

You have to think about this right?

SAS: Beal + 32FRP
PHX: Dev + Collins

The issue with Beal isn't his ability, his shooting splits are still the same, it's just that his usage has dropped.
The issue is his health. He's always injured. NTC is also an issue because we wouldn't be able to move him at all.

[rjv]

I'm not even sure what this means, but I'll go on the record and state that I don't see Turner pushing to leave IND in order to be Wemby's backup.

what it means is that spurs fans are limited in what we know. we have no idea what goes on behind the scenes, we don't even know who the coach is going to be next season much less who would have limited roles or become backups. so we can't approve or negate potential trades based on this sort of limited knowledge. real GMs and front offices surely think differently, no matter what we try to speculate in here about how they operate. brian wright isn't clueless to the lack of depth we have with our bigs.

[Mr. Body]

You have to think about this right?

SAS: Beal + 32FRP
PHX: Dev + Collins

Thirty-two first round picks is what it would take to do it.

[LeBowen]

we don't even know who the coach is going to be next season much less who would have limited roles or become backups.

This shouldn't matter.
PATFO always talk about pounding the rock, the next man up etc.
Roster building philosophy should be in place and then the next coach should be hired based on it.
Over the past year they've shown they have certain preferences, versatile defenders who can play multiple positions (we'll disregard that they completely failed at it for the most part :lol), you don't build a team like that only to hire D'Antoni when it's time for a coaching change.

[KingKev]

You have to think about this right?

SAS: Beal + 32FRP
PHX: Dev + Collins

I’m not sure how I can be pretty down for a similar trade for Lavine and not even consider this. Swap the FRP and sub DV for Keldon and maybe.

[CGD]

Just threw up all over myself

A pod i was listening to was suggesting Spurs as a Beal home, but that his no-trade clause would mean they'd need to cough it an asset.

[CGD]

I’m not sure how I can be pretty down for a similar trade for Lavine and not even consider this. Swap the FRP and sub DV for Keldon and maybe.

Trade machine says Tre, Keldon, and Zach also works btw

[KingKev]

A pod i was listening to was suggesting Spurs as a Beal home, but that his no-trade clause would mean they'd need to cough it an asset.

He controls his own destiny and I suspect we are at the bottom of his list. He just needs to sit back and collect those cheques and if he stays healthy can sign a few vet min deals with contenders in his mid 30’s. He’s the new Westbrook.

[KingKev]

Trade machine says Tre, Keldon, and Zach also works btw

It would give us a playoff push for sure. Right now we are destined to get crushed in the play-in but I’m not quite this desperate for a 5 game playoff series just yet.

[DPG21920]

I won't deny it will be a lateral move that will bring nothing positive or negative to the big picture.

I view that just as a last minute trade. If Suns don't find a good trade with Nurkic and Spurs don't find a good trade with Collins at the deadline, they do the swap and hope a change of scenery will make the player less catastrophic.

Nurkic might be the only player Spurs could get for Collins without adding draft incentives and who doesn't have a worse contract than Collins.

Saying all that, Nurkic does suck. But can he be a less bad backup C than Collins/Bassey? That is what I'm wondering...

For sure - Im not against it for those same reasons you listed if it were to happen, but just more saying that its pointless overall and I really hope SA can get more creative than that and shift gears into improving the team.

I would much rather SA use a lot of 2nds to dump Collins for example than to do a trade like Nurk. Im fine burning some capital if it means it helps SA (either on court or cap wise to reallocate funds more effectively)

[DPG21920]

I’m not sure how I can be pretty down for a similar trade for Lavine and not even consider this. Swap the FRP and sub DV for Keldon and maybe.

If it were something like Barnes + Collins + Branham + Blake then it’s not that much different money next year to Beal than it is to those 4 guys. Definitely helps the team now especially if you dont have to give up picks to get it done.

The trade off is that year 3 for Beal where all those other guys are off the books. But for rest of this season and next season, money is close enough to where it’s just one extra year for Beal.

If you needed that cap space in that year, could you find a way to dump Beal as an expiring? Might be tough but that’s the bet/cost analysis you’re making here.

Not sure Beal would waive his NTC to come to SA or that Suns would be ok getting rid of him for that package, but if Im SA it’s something to think about if that were possible. Suns may very well like Barnes better than Beal at this point due to role etc…and if they can dump Nurk they may be ok with Collins as a back up since it gets them out of Beals deal and breaks everything up into more manageable deals to move if needed.

[DPG21920]

He controls his own destiny and I suspect we are at the bottom of his list. He just needs to sit back and collect those cheques and if he stays healthy can sign a few vet min deals with contenders in his mid 30’s. He’s the new Westbrook.

Sure but he collects the checks whether hes on SA or PHX right? Would he like a starting role with no other high usage guards on the roster and a chance to play next to Wemby vs sitting on bench and being scapegoat?

[rjv]

This shouldn't matter.
PATFO always talk about pounding the rock, the next man up etc.
Roster building philosophy should be in place and then the next coach should be hired based on it.
Over the past year they've shown they have certain preferences, versatile defenders who can play multiple positions (we'll disregard that they completely failed at it for the most part :lol), you don't build a team like that only to hire D'Antoni when it's time for a coaching change.

nothing wrong with consistency and it was the pillar for SA during the 20 year run. but it was more fluid than that. the 2013-14 roster was one that was built very differently from the early 2000s ones. the catalyst for change then was a league that bent towards the offense and away from the defense. the catalyst this time around may be Wemby. (but my point was really more about how we only know a fraction about what the machinations driving the FO are.)

[DPG21920]

Something like:

MIA Receives: Collins + Barnes + Branham + Wesley + PHX 26 1st unprotected + 2 2nds from SA

PHX Receives: Jimmy Butler

SA Receives: Beal


Does MIA value keeping books pretty clean here with none of the players having deals that go beyond next season and broken down into 4 different sized expiring deals that they may be able to easily move if they need cap space? Do they value Barnes as a player to keep as well? Plus getting an unprotected first + 2 2nds for a guy that can just walk for nothing?

We know PHX does the deal. They get to rid themselves of Beal and add their guy in Jimmy who wants to be there and it just cost them a first.

Does SA do this when it costs them only 2 2nds but they have to take on that third year of Beal which could prove to be critical in terms of building team next two years? Theres no doubt that Beal likely makes them better this season and next for about the same money as the 4 outgoing guys, but is that worth the risk of the third year if you think you can use that cap space? Could they move Beal that third year as an expiring to negate that risk even if it costs them a first to do so?

[mo7888]

You have to think about this right?

SAS: Beal + 32FRP
PHX: Dev + Collins

Then I'd counter with:

SAS: Beal + 32 FRP
PHX: Keldon+ Collins + Malaki + Tre

[Mr. Body]

Kudos to the current(?) WAS regime for somehow dumping Beale, a total non-starter as a contract and player. I mean, the franchise was stupid enough to give him a no-trade, but that was before.

PHX pulling Durant was probably a good move. Dumping Ayton was probably necessary in terms of contracts and he's kind of shitty for Portland now anyway. Just a dumb, lazy, entitled player.

Where PHX went horrifically wrong was flipping Chris Paul for Beale.

[Mr. Body]

I can't believe you people are seriously considering a trade for Beal as anything worth a second of thought.

[montgod]

I can't believe you people are seriously considering a trade for Beal as anything worth a second of thought.

Fully agree... that would be the most worse case scenario ever to have him on the Spurs and of course to possibly get injured right after or continue his no defense, choke job of a career w/Wemby. Reminds me a little of when Jefferson arrived back in the day.

[Mr. Body]

Fully agree... that would be the most worse case scenario ever to have him on the Spurs and of course to possibly get injured right after or continue his no defense, choke job of a career w/Wemby. Reminds me a little of when Jefferson arrived back in the day.

It's not just his injury history, it's his ungodly salary. And he's not worth even remotely that.

[scott]

crofl this board is great. You get the widest range of opinions. If the board was one person with all of these thoughts, they'd be committed as a schizophrenic.

Don't want to use any real assets for or have to pay Fox a 30% max... Excited to trade for Bradley fucking Beal and his 35% max.

[mo7888]

I can't believe you people are seriously considering a trade for Beal as anything worth a second of thought.

Nobody is 'seriously' considering a Beal trade... some of us are either bored or exhausted from the inactivity of the front office. Faux Beal trades are just fans saying, "we're desperate"... nothing more..

[scott]

I'll just chalk this up to people's memories of who Bradley Beal used to be. Unfortunately, he ain't that guy anymore. He's always kind of been a Temu Dame Lillard, but like with everything from Temu, Beal doesn't hold up over time like the real thing.

https://i.ibb.co/jwtz4wb/LEBRONComparison-Screenshot-7.png

https://i.ibb.co/BqLq6YP/beal-v-dame.png

[scott]

Nobody is 'seriously' considering a Beal trade... some of us are either bored or exhausted from the inactivity of the front office. Faux Beal trades are just fans saying, "we're desperate"... nothing more..

Fair point!

I'm frustrated too, but I've also come to accept that we are highly unlikely to do **anything**, and that the team is content with finishing 11th or 12th in the west with 35-40 wins. While I personally think this is a huge missed opportunity, I get paid exactly $0 for my opinion on basketball, so go figure.

So all of my trade discussions henceforth are all merely cosplay GM'ing :lol

[Joseph Kony]

crofl this board is great. You get the widest range of opinions. If the board was one person with all of these thoughts, they'd be committed as a schizophrenic.

Don't want to use any real assets for or have to pay Fox a 30% max... Excited to trade for Bradley fucking Beal and his 35% max.

Exactly :lol which is why i find it hilarious when a certain sniffer likes to complain about ST as if it's one single minded entity and everyone has the same opinion but him

[Joseph Kony]

But yeah fuck Beal, especially at his salary, especially with his NTC, and especially with his injury history. Vassell has been ass but I'd keep him any day over trading for that bum in Phoenix

[scott]

But yeah fuck Beal, especially at his salary, especially with his NTC, and especially with his injury history. Vassell has been ass but I'd keep him any day over trading for that bum in Phoenix

First time you'll see me coming to stan for Devin Vassell, but I 100% agree with this.

[baseline bum]

I'm down so bad that I even thought about the feasibility of taking on Beal if we can get 2 unprotected FRPs for it while getting rid of Collins and Keldon in the process.

Ouch so we can have a second Vassell except this one also gets paid like Kobe in addition to believing he's Kobe. Alas 20131 is their first pick they can trade so not happening.

[Bruno]

For sure - Im not against it for those same reasons you listed if it were to happen, but just more saying that its pointless overall and I really hope SA can get more creative than that and shift gears into improving the team.

I would much rather SA use a lot of 2nds to dump Collins for example than to do a trade like Nurk. Im fine burning some capital if it means it helps SA (either on court or cap wise to reallocate funds more effectively)

Speaking of 2nd round picks, Spurs will face a crazy situation in 2026. Hornets first round pick won't convey this year, so Spurs will have 5 second round picks in 2026:
- Jazz pick
- Hornets pick
- Worst of Pelicans and Blazers pick
- Best between Spurs pick and worst of Pacers/Heat pick
- Worst of Thunder, Mavs and Sixers.

The last pick is trash but the 4 others are good second round picks. Spurs can't stand pat with all these picks and the more they wait, the less value they will get from these picks because other teams will use the fact that Spurs can't keep all of them.

[DPG21920]

It's not just his injury history, it's his ungodly salary. And he's not worth even remotely that.

What do you care if 50M is being paid to Beal or Collins+Branham+Wesely+Barnes? 3 of those 4 guys aren’t even rotation players anyways.

[DPG21920]

Speaking of 2nd round picks, Spurs will face a crazy situation in 2026. Hornets first round pick won't convey this year, so Spurs will have 5 second round picks in 2026:
- Jazz pick
- Hornets pick
- Worst of Pelicans and Blazers pick
- Best between Spurs pick and worst of Pacers/Heat pick
- Worst of Thunder, Mavs and Sixers.

The last pick is trash but the 4 others are good second round picks. Spurs can't stand pat with all these picks and the more they wait, the less value they will get from these picks because other teams will use the fact that Spurs can't keep all of them.

Yup! Which is why I think a really good use case for them is using them to rid themselves of mistake contracts (like Collins) to free up flexibility now.

[baseline bum]

What do you care if 50M is being paid to Beal or Collins+Branham+Wesely+Barnes? 3 of those 4 guys aren’t even rotation players anyways.

Collins, Branham, Wesley, and Barnes could be traded.

[Seventyniner]

A second apron question:

The Suns own their own 20131 pick outright at the moment. They owe a swap in 2030 but they will still get a first of some sort that year, so they are allowed to trade their 20131 first (unprotected if they want) and not violate the Stepien Rule.

But if they stay over the second apron long enough, their 20131 pick gets frozen and sent to the end of the first round. If they trade that pick to another team, does it still get frozen for the acquiring team? Or if they trade a swap on that pick, does the freezing and sending to #30 effectively extinguish the swap? If so, that makes staying above the second apron even worse because other teams won't necessarily be willing to risk getting a #30 pick (or worse, a worthless swap) several years down the road.

[Mr. Body]

What do you care if 50M is being paid to Beal or Collins+Branham+Wesely+Barnes? 3 of those 4 guys aren’t even rotation players anyways.

Beal's contract is way, waaaay longer than theirs?

It's a massive brick of a contract. If you do an unbelievably stupid thing and consolidated all their contracts into his, then you'd have to fill the rest of the roster, costing you overall more.

Do you stop to think before you post?

[Seventyniner]

Collins, Branham, Wesley, and Barnes could be traded.

This. That amount of salary is far easier to move in chunks than all at once.

Tying up all that money in Beal would only create roster spots. Perhaps the Spurs will need some with all the firsts and seconds coming in the 2025 and 2026 drafts, but there are far better ways to make roster spots than trading for Beal.

[DPG21920]

I dont love Beal and I would rather have Lavine all else being equal, Im just trying to illustrate some “low” risk (theres risk with Beal and Lavine types due to their 3rd year large salaries) moves to try and rid ourselves of guys like Collins/Branham/Blake while not giving up picks (or legit picks) to do so and maybe improving the team this season and next for similar money.


But the risk comes from that third year. If it were just remotely even money for next season its a no brainer but Lavine/Beal having a year beyond Collins/Barnes/Blake/Branham is what makes it so tough especially if you have plans for FA that year (and you dont think you can reasonably move them as expiring one year deals at that point).

Thats why Im most interested in Brandon Ingram. He’s a legit expiring so if SA can use Collins + Barnes or something like that and clear their salaries this upcoming season while getting a look at Ingram with little to no risk (treat him like an expiring deal) then its a win/win.

Not sure what it would take but I would probably do 5 2nds or a lotto protected first to salary dump Collins/Barnes for Ingram

[DPG21920]

Beal's contract is way, waaaay longer than theirs?

It's a massive brick of a contract. If you do an unbelievably stupid thing and consolidated all their contracts into his, then you'd have to fill the rest of the roster, costing you overall more.

Do you stop to think before you post?

It’s one year longer. It’s not nothing and I pointed out that’s the risk, but let’s be clear. It’s one year difference. So for this season and next, that money is pretty much break even. It’s the one extra year from Beal not “wayyyyy” longer.

[DPG21920]

Collins, Branham, Wesley, and Barnes could be traded.

Possibly but for what? What value do 3 non-rotation players have to other teams?

[baseline bum]

You have to think about this right?

SAS: Beal + 32FRP
PHX: Dev + Collins

If their offer was

SAS: Beal + 20131 FRP (they can't trade the 32 FRP)
PHX: Keldon + Collins + Branham + Cissoko

I'd still hang up the fucking phone while laughing into it

[baseline bum]

Possibly but for what? What value do 3 non-rotation players have to other teams?

They'd be throw-ins for matching salary. Beal would just be an anchor around the team's neck.

[DPG21920]

Beal's contract is way, waaaay longer than theirs?

It's a massive brick of a contract. If you do an unbelievably stupid thing and consolidated all their contracts into his, then you'd have to fill the rest of the roster, costing you overall more.

Do you stop to think before you post?

And while the roster spot thing is true, you aren’t actually needing anything. You can sign 2 min guys and that takes care of the issue at no extra cost. You would be replacing 3 guys who never should play and rarely do (Collins/Branham/Blake) with 2 min deal guys who dont add any real cost.

You are swapping Barnes with Beal here so its really no different roster/cost wise other than that third year (which I agree is a serious variable but its not waaaaaayyyyy longer)

[Bruno]

A second apron question:

The Suns own their own 20131 pick outright at the moment. They owe a swap in 2030 but they will still get a first of some sort that year, so they are allowed to trade their 20131 first (unprotected if they want) and not violate the Stepien Rule.

But if they stay over the second apron long enough, their 20131 pick gets frozen and sent to the end of the first round. If they trade that pick to another team, does it still get frozen for the acquiring team? Or if they trade a swap on that pick, does the freezing and sending to #30 effectively extinguish the swap? If so, that makes staying above the second apron even worse because other teams won't necessarily be willing to risk getting a #30 pick (or worse, a worthless swap) several years down the road.

It's the 2032 pick that will be frozen. Once a pick is frozen, it can't be traded.

[DPG21920]

They'd be throw-ins for matching salary. Beal would just be an anchor around the team's neck.

Sure, if that’s the case then by all means. Beal and Lavine deals are not my priority. If you can actually use Collins + Branham + Blake as throw ins for legit upgrades by all means do so. Im skeptical that’s the case however at least without Spurs also having to include very real valuable picks too.

Maybe it’s still worth it depending on the player and Im fine using multiple firsts to get a legit star. I just dont know that one is available for SA that’s worth it then you have to shift to the other type of deals to see if the risk is worth the reward IMO

[baseline bum]

But the risk comes from that third year. If it were just remotely even money for next season its a no brainer but Lavine/Beal having a year beyond Collins/Barnes/Blake/Branham is what makes it so tough especially if you have plans for FA that year (and you dont think you can reasonably move them as expiring one year deals at that point).

The risk comes from being unable to trade him. Collins, Barnes, Wesley, Branham all have some value in that if the Spurs want to cash in some of their picks for a disgruntled star then a couple of them will be very useful for hitting matching salaries while Beal and his no trade clause are absolutely useless and could very well cost the Spurs the ability to do that kind of trade. All for the chance to pay $150 million to a defensive sieve China doll who is barely league average offensively when he can get on the floor.

[scott]

A second apron question:

The Suns own their own 20131 pick outright at the moment. They owe a swap in 2030 but they will still get a first of some sort that year, so they are allowed to trade their 20131 first (unprotected if they want) and not violate the Stepien Rule.

But if they stay over the second apron long enough, their 20131 pick gets frozen and sent to the end of the first round. If they trade that pick to another team, does it still get frozen for the acquiring team? Or if they trade a swap on that pick, does the freezing and sending to #30 effectively extinguish the swap? If so, that makes staying above the second apron even worse because other teams won't necessarily be willing to risk getting a #30 pick (or worse, a worthless swap) several years down the road.

My understanding was that a second apron team could not trade a FRP 7 years in the future. That would mean that PHX, MIN, BOS and MIL cannot trade their 2032 FRP if they finish the year over the 2nd apron. The "move to the end of the round" penalty only comes into play when you are over the 2nd apron two times in a four year stretch, so before the pick gets moved to the end of the round, it will already have been frozen from a trade, precluding the scenario you describe.

[DPG21920]

The risk comes from being unable to trade him. Collins, Barnes, Wesley, Branham all have some value in that if the Spurs want to cash in some of their picks for a disgruntled star then a couple of them will be very useful for hitting matching salaries while Beal and his no trade clause are absolutely useless and could very well cost the Spurs the ability to do that kind of trade. All for the chance to pay $150 million to a defensive sieve China doll who is barely league average offensively when he can get on the floor.

Wouldn’t Beal waiving his NTC to get to SA negate that NTC? And when it comes to money, the year that’s different than Collins/Branham/Barnes etc…he would be a fully expiring 57M deal at least. Could you attach a pick or something to get a team to take him on as an expiring then (might not be able to offset all his salary but maybe half?)

[scott]

Barnes isn't even considered a rotation player for other teams now? What does that make Vassell and Keldon? :lol

[DPG21920]

Barnes isn't even considered a rotation player for other teams now? What does that make Vassell and Keldon? :lol

I didnt say Barnes was not a rotation player? I said Collins/Branham/Blake weren’t

[DPG21920]

It's the 2032 pick that will be frozen. Once a pick is frozen, it can't be traded.

If Beal waives his NTC, is that the end of it? Or would it still be applied to the next team as well for remainder of his deal?

[scott]

Let's think through this a little more.

So you take on Beal for Barnes, Collins, Wesley and Branham.

You've now lost 28mpg at the wing, a position you're already thin at and having to play Keldon 25mpg while having Jeremy miss 40% of the games so far this season. On the plus side... I guess we'll get those fun Mamu minutes.

On the other hand, Beal averages 33mpg. Where are those coming from? Vassell's 29mpg or Castle's 25mpg? Why would we want to supplant either one of those guy's minutes with Beal?

One could say that some of Castle's displaced minutes could then absorb all of Tre's minutes, but it seems clear to me that the Spurs are not using and do not see Castle as a lead PG. Only 179 of Castle's 886 (20%) have come as the solo PG on the floor. It seems obvious to me that they view Castle as a secondary ball handling SG/occasional SF.

Ignoring the Barnes piece, Beal doesn't make any sense if you have ANY hope for Vassell or Castle. Even if you didn't have much faith in Vassell (which I do not), there are better ways to upgrade his minutes.

[Joseph Kony]

If Beal waives his NTC, is that the end of it? Or would it still be applied to the next team as well for remainder of his deal?
Didn't he have to waive it to be traded from WAS in the first place? if he still has it, i would imagine it's there regardless of what team agrees to be traded to

[scott]

I didnt say Barnes was not a rotation player? I said Collins/Branham/Blake weren’t

Gotcha. I'd argue Barnes is significantly more useful to the team than the delta of Beal over the next best alternative.

[scott]

If Beal waives his NTC, is that the end of it? Or would it still be applied to the next team as well for remainder of his deal?

The waiving is temporary for that deal, then it goes back into effect

[baseline bum]

Wouldn’t Beal waiving his NTC to get to SA negate that NTC? And when it comes to money, the year that’s different than Collins/Branham/Barnes etc…he would be a fully expiring 57M deal at least. Could you attach a pick or something to get a team to take him on as an expiring then (might not be able to offset all his salary but maybe half?)

I meant being unable to trade him because he's dogshit being paid like a superstar.

[DPG21920]

Gotcha. I'd argue Barnes is significantly more useful to the team than the delta of Beal over the next best alternative.

And that’s fair….I think Lavine is a massive upgrade in talent over Barnes but yeah, it may not be enough either way.

[DPG21920]

And to reiterate lol: This is not something Im dying for it to happen. Just looking at reality of guys who may be available, that may end being low cost (meaning outgoing talent and picks) that could conceivably (for the risk of taking on a huge third year) help upgrade talent and open up the roster spots for all the incoming draft picks etc…

But ya, its not clean and theres risks abound

[DPG21920]

Although if you swap Keldon in these deals for Barnes, you now negate some of that third year money from Beal or Lavine since Keldon was making 17.5M in that third year anyways that you now shed.

[Bruno]

For the no-trade clause,

A player don't need to waive it to be traded. A no-trade clause is a right to veto a trade. When Beal was traded to Suns, he simply gave his agreement to be traded there.

If Suns want to trade him somewhere, Beal will need to agree at that.

Beal and Suns can also amend his contract to remove the no-trade clause. In that case, Beal won't be able to veto a trade for the rest of his contract.

[RC_Drunkford]

Damn people are so desperate that they talk about trading for Beal and Nurkic? :lol

[DPG21920]

For the no-trade clause,

A player don't need to waive it to be traded. A no-trade clause is a right to veto a trade. When Beal was traded to Suns, he simply gave his agreement to be traded there.

If Suns want to trade him somewhere, Beal will need to agree at that.

Beal and Suns can also amend his contract to remove the no-trade clause. In that case, Beal won't be able to veto a trade for the rest of his contract.

Gotcha - Im guessing no way Beal gives that up so he would likely just not veto a deal that hes fine with. Would be great if he agreed to remove the NTC for a trade though but doesn’t seem likely

[DPG21920]

For the no-trade clause,

A player don't need to waive it to be traded. A no-trade clause is a right to veto a trade. When Beal was traded to Suns, he simply gave his agreement to be traded there.

If Suns want to trade him somewhere, Beal will need to agree at that.

Beal and Suns can also amend his contract to remove the no-trade clause. In that case, Beal won't be able to veto a trade for the rest of his contract.

Im seeing conflicting data on Hoopshype vs other salary sites:

Are Branham and Blake deals this next season team options or are they guaranteed and then the following year its qualifying offers?

[mo7888]

If Beal waives his NTC, is that the end of it? Or would it still be applied to the next team as well for remainder of his deal?

It's applied to the next team, just like it was when WAS traded him.

[mo7888]

Im seeing conflicting data on Hoopshype vs other salary sites:

Are Branham and Blake deals this next season team options or are they guaranteed and then the following year its qualifying offers?

I'm pretty sure we guaranteed them for some reason.

[DPG21920]

I'm pretty sure we guaranteed them for some reason.

I thought so too (which is what Hoopshype has reflected) but a few other sites are still showing team option

[DPG21920]

Thats 9M in salary for Branham + Blake that SA guaranteed for them not to play. Collins with 19M.

[Bruno]

Im seeing conflicting data on Hoopshype vs other salary sites:

Are Branham and Blake deals this next season team options or are they guaranteed and then the following year its qualifying offers?

They're guaranteed.

3rd and 4th seasons of first round pick contracts are team options but the deadline to pick them is the end of October of the previous season.

In October 2024, Spurs picked up options for the 4th season of Branham, Wesley and Sochan. They also picked up the third year of Wembanayama.

[DPG21920]

They're guaranteed.

3rd and 4th seasons of first round pick contracts are team options but the deadline to pick them is the end of October of the previous season.

In October 2024, Spurs picked up options for the 4th season of Branham, Wesley and Sochan. They also picked up the third year of Wembanayama.

Ugh. I thought I remembered that (just found the press release as well: https://www.nba.com/spurs/news/spurs-exercise-team-option-on-jeremy-sochan-malaki-branham-blake-wesley-and-victor-wembanyama)

[scott]

And to reiterate lol: This is not something Im dying for it to happen. Just looking at reality of guys who may be available, that may end being low cost (meaning outgoing talent and picks) that could conceivably (for the risk of taking on a huge third year) help upgrade talent and open up the roster spots for all the incoming draft picks etc…

But ya, its not clean and theres risks abound

If PHX was willing to heavily compensate us with picks, then it gets more interesting... but PHX doesn't really have the picks to make such compensation, and it would push our timeline even further back. This would have been a good move in the Pre-Wemby era, but I just can't see how it would make sense now.

[scott]

Gotcha - Im guessing no way Beal gives that up so he would likely just not veto a deal that hes fine with. Would be great if he agreed to remove the NTC for a trade though but doesn’t seem likely

The thing here is there is nothing left to offer Beal to agree to remove his NTC. He's already at the max, so no team can give him anymore money to remove the NTC (or even to agree to a trade at any point in time). Kind of just a unique situation with a Max and a NTC. Beal has literally nothing to gain from letting go of his NTC.

[scott]

I thought so too (which is what Hoopshype has reflected) but a few other sites are still showing team option

Spotrac is the best site to use for contracts. You'll see there that it was a Club Option, but the checkmark indicates the club picked it up: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/player/_/id/78120/malaki-branham

Compare that to Jalen Hood-Schifino's page, where they show the options that were not picked up: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/player/_/id/82210/jalen-hood-schifino

[DPG21920]

If PHX was willing to heavily compensate us with picks, then it gets more interesting... but PHX doesn't really have the picks to make such compensation, and it would push our timeline even further back. This would have been a good move in the Pre-Wemby era, but I just can't see how it would make sense now.

I think it makes sense if you think you can move Beals extra year (since he will be an expiring) to some degree. Because for this season and next I dont see a big deal paying all the money to Beal (or Lavine) vs having it spread out with Collins/Branham/Blake/Barnes etc…But Im not sure SA could move that third year.

I really am intrigued to see if SA can snag Ingram for something like Keldon + Tre + Blake + 3-4 2nds. Clear rest of Keldon and Blakes money and get a look at Ingram with a lineup like: CP/Vassell/Ingram/Sochan/Wemby

Not sure NO would prefer that vs just letting Ingram walk, but they may like Keldon enough and idea of getting a lot of 2nds vs just losing Ingram

[DPG21920]

The thing here is there is nothing left to offer Beal to agree to remove his NTC. He's already at the max, so no team can give him anymore money to remove the NTC (or even to agree to a trade at any point in time). Kind of just a unique situation with a Max and a NTC. Beal has literally nothing to gain from letting go of his NTC.

Maybe a scenario where he really wants out and a new team will take him if he agrees to waive the NTC clause entirely?

[baseline bum]

I think it makes sense if you think you can move Beals extra year (since he will be an expiring) to some degree. Because for this season and next I dont see a big deal paying all the money to Beal (or Lavine) vs having it spread out with Collins/Branham/Blake/Barnes etc…But Im not sure SA could move that third year.

I really am intrigued to see if SA can snag Ingram for something like Keldon + Tre + Blake + 3-4 2nds. Clear rest of Keldon and Blakes money and get a look at Ingram with a lineup like: CP/Vassell/Ingram/Sochan/Wemby

Not sure NO would prefer that vs just letting Ingram walk, but they may like Keldon enough and idea of getting a lot of 2nds vs just losing Ingram

Only makes sense if you think Beal has two good years to give you. Which he doesn't, he's pretty meh at best with Durant and Booker taking a ton of the defensive heat off of him. If Phoenix wants out of their salary plus lack of future nightmare they have to be offering Durant or Booker.

[scott]

I think it makes sense if you think you can move Beals extra year (since he will be an expiring) to some degree. Because for this season and next I dont see a big deal paying all the money to Beal (or Lavine) vs having it spread out with Collins/Branham/Blake/Barnes etc…But Im not sure SA could move that third year.

I really am intrigued to see if SA can snag Ingram for something like Keldon + Tre + Blake + 3-4 2nds. Clear rest of Keldon and Blakes money and get a look at Ingram with a lineup like: CP/Vassell/Ingram/Sochan/Wemby

Not sure NO would prefer that vs just letting Ingram walk, but they may like Keldon enough and idea of getting a lot of 2nds vs just losing Ingram

I think the NTC makes Beal radioactive. WAS got lucky to find PHX to take him off their hands, and Vecenie is reporting that he's basically immovable at this point (he's said he's willing to go to MIA, but MIA doesn't want him).

I think Lavine would be fine, an upgrade over Devin and the money wouldn't be bad like you said... but it would seem like kind of a let down, IDK. I'm not totally against it, because it lines up with Wemby's deal, but I think we can do better.

I like the Ingram idea. Even if Ingram is just a rental, if it allowed us to get off Keldon two years early it would be a win. I think the Spurs could even possibly flip Ingram in a S&T this offseason if he plays well but isn't in the Spurs plans beyond that.

[DPG21920]

I think the NTC makes Beal radioactive. WAS got lucky to find PHX to take him off their hands, and Vecenie is reporting that he's basically immovable at this point (he's said he's willing to go to MIA, but MIA doesn't want him).

I think Lavine would be fine, an upgrade over Devin and the money wouldn't be bad like you said... but it would seem like kind of a let down, IDK. I'm not totally against it, because it lines up with Wemby's deal, but I think we can do better.

I like the Ingram idea. Even if Ingram is just a rental, if it allowed us to get off Keldon two years early it would be a win. I think the Spurs could even possibly flip Ingram in a S&T this offseason if he plays well but isn't in the Spurs plans beyond that.

Ya - these are more trades of last resort where SA can try to get lucky on talent without giving up much in terms of players or picks. I would only do Beal if he waives his NTC completely otherwise it’s a nonstarter.

Would Beal do that for a role as a starter with high usage vs being on bench in PHX? Not sure. But he cant be happy in PHX right now and will get paid either way so you’d think he would want to play and a bigger role

Ingram is the perfect player IMO for the “shed salary but improve talent” strategy. Just not sure what NO would want vs just letting him walk. But if IM NO and I dont have salary cap space really even in Ingram walks, getting Keldon + picks has to be at least a conversation

[DPG21920]

I’d even strongly consider a lottery protected first if the deal was Keldon + Collins for Ingram.

[scott]

Ya - these are more trades of last resort where SA can try to get lucky on talent without giving up much in terms of players or picks. I would only do Beal if he waives his NTC completely otherwise it’s a nonstarter.

Would Beal do that for a role as a starter with high usage vs being on bench in PHX? Not sure. But he cant be happy in PHX right now and will get paid either way so you’d think he would want to play and a bigger role

Ingram is the perfect player IMO for the “shed salary but improve talent” strategy. Just not sure what NO would want vs just letting him walk. But if IM NO and I dont have salary cap space really even in Ingram walks, getting Keldon + picks has to be at least a conversation

Key things to remember with NOP: they are about $2.1MM over the tax line, so they'll probably want to get under that. Ingram is on the books for $36MM, so they'll want to take back no more than $33.9MM. Their tax bill isn't crazy as it stands ($3.2MM, but no reason to pay it if you can make some easy moves to get under).

Biggest thing with Ingram will be what competition is there for his services. Another team might be willing to give up an FRP for the playoff push. If GSW can't get anywhere with Butler, does BI make sense for them?

I haven't heard any rumblings that Beal is unhappy in PHX. He fought pretty hard for that NTC if I remember correctly, would really surprise me if he gave it up just to leave PHX.

[MannyIsGod]

I know y'all are talking about Ingram, but if I"m honest the bigger upside shot the Spurs should take with NOLA is trying to flip Vassel into Zion. It is really possible it doesn't work out, but if it DID work out then you have an amazing front court that is still young AF. You can only do this if Wemby is fully on board though because it seems to me that Zion's lack of work ethic is really what Wemby loathes. But if you feel he can be rehabilitated, then its a huge upside move and if you do it for something like Devin + Collins and a pick or two then I feel you've not really given up much at all.

[Davidicus]

Wemby has openly criticized players who don’t work hard. There’s 0 chance we trade for Zion.

Ingram at a bargain price is much more interesting. But I’m talking 75% off sale bargain. Would be a last minute trade if no one else wanted him.

[Mr. Body]

I know y'all are talking about Ingram, but if I"m honest the bigger upside shot the Spurs should take with NOLA is trying to flip Vassel into Zion. It is really possible it doesn't work out, but if it DID work out then you have an amazing front court that is still young AF. You can only do this if Wemby is fully on board though because it seems to me that Zion's lack of work ethic is really what Wemby loathes. But if you feel he can be rehabilitated, then its a huge upside move and if you do it for something like Devin + Collins and a pick or two then I feel you've not really given up much at all.

Man, how y'all kidding yourselves about Zion? Bro ain't gonna ever play.

[scott]

I know y'all are talking about Ingram, but if I"m honest the bigger upside shot the Spurs should take with NOLA is trying to flip Vassel into Zion. It is really possible it doesn't work out, but if it DID work out then you have an amazing front court that is still young AF. You can only do this if Wemby is fully on board though because it seems to me that Zion's lack of work ethic is really what Wemby loathes. But if you feel he can be rehabilitated, then its a huge upside move and if you do it for something like Devin + Collins and a pick or two then I feel you've not really given up much at all.

New Orleans and San Antonio seem like the two worst possible destinations for Zion. Homeboy looks like he can put down healthy amounts of enchiladas as easily as he does etouffee.

[Strategic]

Idk about Zion except he’s a guy that can contribute 30 games a season. That’s almost worth the risk?

[heyheymymy]

My Spicy: Do Not Touch List:

Zion
Beal
Lavine
Trae Young
Nurkic

imho tbh

[MannyIsGod]

New Orleans and San Antonio seem like the two worst possible destinations for Zion. Homeboy looks like he can put down healthy amounts of enchiladas as easily as he does etouffee.

I mean there's good food everywhere. I think there's a substantial chance it flops and Zion doesn't ever pan out, but I'd flip Vassel and a FRP as a high reward low risk situation. But once again, only if Wemby is on board.

Zion is the exact type of buy low trade the Spurs can make and not risk very much at all. I'm all for slam dunk trades that move the needle, but if I'm honest I don't see a damn one out there right now. Does Ingram really move the needle? I'd much rather take a gamble on Zion than trade for the corpse of Beal's overrated Wizards career.

[MannyIsGod]

Wemby has openly criticized players who don’t work hard. There’s 0 chance we trade for Zion.

Ingram at a bargain price is much more interesting. But I’m talking 75% off sale bargain. Would be a last minute trade if no one else wanted him.

I do think your first comment is the big factor which is why I mention he has to be on board. You don't want Wemby throwing it back in the FO's face if it doesn't work out.

[KingKev]

Zion won’t come cheap especially if the optionality in his contract transfers.

[mo7888]

Zion won’t come cheap especially if the optionality in his contract transfers.

They'll waive him this offseason if they don't move him before the deadline.

[scott]

My Spicy: Do Not Touch List:

Zion
Beal
Lavine
Trae Young
Nurkic

imho tbh

Can we add James Harden to the "Hot Ones, Will Melt Your Asshole, Do Not Even Think About"... just in case?

[scott]

I mean there's good food everywhere. I think there's a substantial chance it flops and Zion doesn't ever pan out, but I'd flip Vassel and a FRP as a high reward low risk situation. But once again, only if Wemby is on board.

Zion is the exact type of buy low trade the Spurs can make and not risk very much at all. I'm all for slam dunk trades that move the needle, but if I'm honest I don't see a damn one out there right now. Does Ingram really move the needle? I'd much rather take a gamble on Zion than trade for the corpse of Beal's overrated Wizards career.

Honestly... I don't hate it. It could be epic.

But... 90% if flops and pisses Wemby off so it scares the shit out of me :lol

If it were Wemby's idea, and it were that cheap, I'm probably game.

[DPG21920]

I mean there's good food everywhere. I think there's a substantial chance it flops and Zion doesn't ever pan out, but I'd flip Vassel and a FRP as a high reward low risk situation. But once again, only if Wemby is on board.

Zion is the exact type of buy low trade the Spurs can make and not risk very much at all. I'm all for slam dunk trades that move the needle, but if I'm honest I don't see a damn one out there right now. Does Ingram really move the needle? I'd much rather take a gamble on Zion than trade for the corpse of Beal's overrated Wizards career.

I think Ingram adds talent, allows you to see what a high usage scorer looks like next to Wemby and since hes expiring theres no contract risk. But that’s the same with Zion since his deal is no longer guaranteed

[MannyIsGod]

I think Ingram adds talent, allows you to see what a high usage scorer looks like next to Wemby and since hes expiring theres no contract risk. But that’s the same with Zion since his deal is no longer guaranteed

Honestly I would not be upset with a cheap Ingram deal either, but I don't think it substantially moves the needle. Maybe it does put them in a better position moving forward though. I do think you are right that its a net gain in talent.

[baseline bum]

I mean there's good food everywhere. I think there's a substantial chance it flops and Zion doesn't ever pan out, but I'd flip Vassel and a FRP as a high reward low risk situation. But once again, only if Wemby is on board.

Zion is the exact type of buy low trade the Spurs can make and not risk very much at all. I'm all for slam dunk trades that move the needle, but if I'm honest I don't see a damn one out there right now. Does Ingram really move the needle? I'd much rather take a gamble on Zion than trade for the corpse of Beal's overrated Wizards career.

That's very high risk IMO. Worst case would be Zion is awesome for the rest of the season and then the Spurs are stuck paying $140 million plus for this guy who clearly doesn't give a shit about staying in shape. He is who he is; someone who could care less about winning and who is a lousy teammate. New Orleans has put awesome players around him and he never even gave them a chance. He's a loser and will go down as one of the greatest what ifs in league history. Dumping all your money into a lottery ticket when you already have the ultimate win in Victor is absolutely nuts.

[baseline bum]

I think Ingram adds talent, allows you to see what a high usage scorer looks like next to Wemby and since hes expiring theres no contract risk. But that’s the same with Zion since his deal is no longer guaranteed

Does NOP have an opt out every year or is it just this summer?

[baseline bum]

ROFL right after I post that rant about how shitty Zion is I open up Shams twitter and see the Pelicans suspended him from tonight's game for being late to the team flight. Sounds kind of extreme but then read the article and see it has been a repeated problem with him being late to practice. So not only is he a fat China doll with no commitment to winning nor ever being in shape, but he's also the same kind of distraction Rodman was when he was here. Zion is an absolute no-go for me. Not for Collins, not for Keldon, not for fucking Branham even. When someone tells you who they are loud and clear you gotta listen.

[scott]

Does NOP have an opt out every year or is it just this summer?

It sounds like Zion has the ability to claw back some guaranteed money for next season, and the following two follow the same formula in the preceding season (per Spotrac's notes here: https://www.spotrac.com/nba/player/_/id/31558/zion-williamson)



Last season, Williamson needed to miss fewer than 23 games to avoid his 2025-26, 2026-27 and 2027-28 salaries becoming non-guaranteed. He missed 53 games.
If Williamson passes six "weigh-in-checkpoints" during the 2024-25 season -- to pass, his body fat percentage and weight must add up to no more than 295 (i.e. if he weighs in at 285 pounds, he cannot exceed 10% body fat ) -- then 20% of his 2025-26 salary will become guaranteed.
If he plays in at least 41 games in 2024-25, another 40% of his 2025-26 salary will become guaranteed. If he plays in at least 51 games, another 20% would be guaranteed on top of that. If he plays in at least 61 games (and doesn't violate the weight clause), then his entire 2025-26 salary will be guaranteed.
The above markers are the same for the years that follow. In other words, by being available and passing the weight check-ins, he can guarantee his salary for the next season.
If Williamson has significant issues with his surgically repaired fifth metatarsal in his right foot (i.e. "a fracture or a stress injury to that bone or the healed callus" or "what the contract calls a 'hardware failure' related to the previous injury," per The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/4913537/2023/12/21/zion-williamson-contract-guarantees/)) this season, then half of his 2024-25 salary will become non-guaranteed.

[Mr. Body]

Zion stands to lose his contract if he doesn't act even basically right. The guy won't do it. Zion won't even play basketball FOR A LOT OF MONEY.

And y'all want to trade for him.

[DPG21920]

Does NOP have an opt out every year or is it just this summer?

Every year of Zions deal from here on out (with some small caveats). Ingram expires after this season

[spursistan]

That's very high risk IMO. Worst case would be Zion is awesome for the rest of the season and then the Spurs are stuck paying $140 million plus for this guy who clearly doesn't give a shit about staying in shape. He is who he is; someone who could care less about winning and who is a lousy teammate. New Orleans has put awesome players around him and he never even gave them a chance. He's a loser and will go down as one of the greatest what ifs in league history. Dumping all your money into a lottery ticket when you already have the ultimate win in Victor is absolutely nuts.
tbh, this is one of the least talked about stories in the league: David Griffin has done a terrific job surrounding Zion with talent good enough to be a perennial conference Finals team (borderline All star SF, a bunch of 3&D guys, a dynamic scoring SG, solid backup Cs/PFs) but that comically unserious person never kept his end of the bargain. Spurs would be lock for a Top 4 seed if Wemby had Zion's supporting cast at full health..

I actually feel bad for Pelicans fans; it almost feel like they are cursed with their franchise players (First CP3, then AD, and now Zion) and it somehow got progressively worse results-wise. Think even Adam Silver is done giftwrapping them the #1 lottery pick. Maybe it is just not meant to be, and New Orleans is destined to remain a football city first and foremost. League will look elsewhere as new markets make their entrance (Vegas, Seattle, possibly Vancouver). I could see them move the franchise altogether..

[baseline bum]

tbh, this is one of the least talked about stories in the league: David Griffin has done a terrific job surrounding Zion with talent good enough to be a perennial conference Finals team (borderline All star SF, a bunch of 3&D guys, a dynamic scoring SG, solid backup Cs/PFs) but that comically unserious person never kept his end of the bargain. Spurs would be lock for a Top 4 seed if Wemby had Zion's supporting cast at full health..

I actually feel bad for Pelicans fans; it almost feel like they are cursed with their franchise players (First CP3, then AD, and now Zion) and it somehow got progressively worse results-wise. Think even Adam Silver is done giftwrapping them the #1 lottery pick. Maybe it is just not meant to be, and New Orleans is destined to remain a football city first and foremost. League will look elsewhere as new markets make their entrance (Vegas, Seattle, possibly Vancouver). I could see them move the franchise altogether..

Griffin got them a younger and better Jrue Holiday who was huge in Milwaukee's title run and was clearly the missing piece in turning Boston from underachiever to one of the greatest teams we have seen last year. If Zion gave a shit I think they already have at least one banner. If you could transplant Wemby's heart into Zion you could have been talking dynasty with him, Holiday, Ingram, plus good role players like Hart and Lonzo, a hungry ass JJ Reddick, plus New Orleans is incredible at finding good players in the draft. What I would give to have David Griffin running our drafts.

[tbdog]

I’d even strongly consider a lottery protected first if the deal was Keldon + Collins for Ingram.

In 6 months time he may very well be available on the free agency market. Giving up a pick is to secure his bird rights, which I don't think the Spurs need. Not sure what the cap situation is.

[mo7888]

In 6 months time he may very well be available on the free agency market. Giving up a pick is to secure his bird rights, which I don't think the Spurs need. Not sure what the cap situation is.

Giving up a pick is to shed salary and get a free short term look without a long-term commitment.

[rjv]

Wemby has openly criticized players who don’t work hard. There’s 0 chance we trade for Zion.

Ingram at a bargain price is much more interesting. But I’m talking 75% off sale bargain. Would be a last minute trade if no one else wanted him.

Porn Chub just got suspended for being late to the team plane. Wemby and Zion would be David and Rodman 2.0. I’ll pass.

[LeBowen]

Porn Chub

:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[DPG21920]

In 6 months time he may very well be available on the free agency market. Giving up a pick is to secure his bird rights, which I don't think the Spurs need. Not sure what the cap situation is.

It’s not about Ingram’s contract but unloading Keldon/Collins money. That opens up 37M in space for SA. Getting his rights is just a happy side effect (one in which I dont even really want them to use since I dont love Ingram).

But this team needs a major overhaul in talent and that 37M can go a long way.

[Bruno]

^ If Spurs were interested in going after Ingram as a FA, I don't think they would have hurt their cap space by picking Branham and Wesley option.

Spurs have lowered their 2025 cap space by $7M by picking team options of these 2 marginal players. To me, it's a sign they have zero interest in going after players like Ingram or Naz Reid.

[DPG21920]

^ If Spurs were interested in going after Ingram as a FA, I don't think they would have hurt their cap space by picking Branham and Wesley option.

Spurs have lowered their 2025 cap space by $7M by picking team options of these 2 marginal players. To me, it's a sign they have zero interest in going after players like Ingram or Naz Reid.

Possibly true but those deals are so small they can likely burn their excess 2nd picks and dump them if they need the space and it gave them one more look to see if any leap happened.

[Pauleta14]

^ If Spurs were interested in going after Ingram as a FA, I don't think they would have hurt their cap space by picking Branham and Wesley option.

Spurs have lowered their 2025 cap space by $7M by picking team options of these 2 marginal players. To me, it's a sign they have zero interest in going after players like Ingram or Naz Reid.

Can we "easily" cut Brahman and Wesley?

If not why the extensions??

[scott]

Can we "easily" cut Brahman and Wesley?

If not why the extensions??

Yeah, we can waive them. It will create some dead money, but the Spurs have can, and have, dealt with that in the past and it won't be all that significant.

It's hard to understand the point of picking up their options, especially if they weren't going to get any minutes this year. I'm not complaining about the lack of Branhim minutes, but it's just inconsistent. Maybe this is where Mitch has a bigger impact that we think, and Pop would be playing Bran heavily if he were still on the sidelines. Or maybe they are truly caught off guard by Bran's lack of development? Who knows.

Wesley on the other hand, confuses me. He's actually shown some progress and played okay in his chances this year. At least enough to where you'd think you'd give him some minutes to continue developing considering you picked up that option.

If the Spurs just view them as end of bench bodies that you need anyway... that doesn't make a whole lot of sense either, since you can get vets on minimums for cheaper.

There are tons of plausible explanations for why they picked up the options, but then they are all belied but their subsequent actions. It's weird.

[Mr. Body]

Branham and Wesley both have some NBA skills. They haven't put it together and may never and probably not for the Spurs. It's not a big mystery that continuing to develop them was a possibility that doesn't seem to have worked out. But saying it's confusing or whatever doesn't make sense. If Branham got confidence and a killer instinct, he could have become a bucket getter. If Wesley developed any viable offense or a better halfcourt defender, that was his route forward.

Mitch doesn't see fit to give them minutes and is instead riding the current rotation apparently for a playoff spot (although we're now losing). Collins is also out of the rotation. It's not a thing to freak out over. None of those players will be around at the end of next year and may be gone this summer.

[DPG21920]

Branham and Wesley both have some NBA skills. They haven't put it together and may never and probably not for the Spurs. It's not a big mystery that continuing to develop them was a possibility that doesn't seem to have worked out. But saying it's confusing or whatever doesn't make sense. If Branham got confidence and a killer instinct, he could have become a bucket getter. If Wesley developed any viable offense or a better halfcourt defender, that was his route forward.

Mitch doesn't see fit to give them minutes and is instead riding the current rotation apparently for a playoff spot (although we're now losing). Collins is also out of the rotation. It's not a thing to freak out over. None of those players will be around at the end of next year and may be gone this summer.

Not about freaking out but it does eat up 8M in cap space so there’s an impact to consider. But I think SA could salary dump them pretty easily

[Mr. Body]

Not about freaking out but it does eat up 8M in cap space so there’s an impact to consider. But I think SA could salary dump them pretty easily

They could, probably, but teams don't really have cap room anymore and having end of the bench guys eating up a few million isn't a big deal. If we were trying to clear cap space for a big move, that would be one thing. My guess is they're either bricked together with Collins or another more expensive guy to get a piece or they just stick around another year. If they pop somehow then that's great. If not, they're just third stringers. You have to pay third stringers anyway.

[KingKev]

Zion stands to lose his contract if he doesn't act even basically right. The guy won't do it. Zion won't even play basketball FOR A LOT OF MONEY.

And y'all want to trade for him.

Part of the risk reward profile that intrigues some.

[mudyez]

I'm not a Zollins hater and actually could live with him going forward, but what about Pöltl? Is the idea of bringing him back dead? Would be the perfect Wemby backup...probably ok with coming of the bench...keeping our defense alive...maybe sharing some few minutes with Wemby.

[KingKev]

I'm not a Zollins hater and actually could live with him going forward, but what about Pöltl? Is the idea of bringing him back dead? Would be the perfect Wemby backup...probably ok with coming of the bench...keeping our defense alive...maybe sharing some few minutes with Wemby.

Raps reportedly want 2 FRPs.

[CGD]

^ If Spurs were interested in going after Ingram as a FA, I don't think they would have hurt their cap space by picking Branham and Wesley option.

Spurs have lowered their 2025 cap space by $7M by picking team options of these 2 marginal players. To me, it's a sign they have zero interest in going after players like Ingram or Naz Reid.

To this points it’s kinda been a disappointing crop of trade targets over the last two years, generally. The older players are second tier (Jimbo), and the younger unhappy guys are fringe/1 time all star types (Ingram, Reid, arguably Fox).

[mo7888]

A smaller trade that would help this season and this summer-
Was- Keldon, Collins, Malaki, 5 2nds and a protected 1st
Spurs- Valanciunas, Brogdon, Davis

[heyheymymy]

1877922635360993733

SPICY WATCH IN EFFECT

[Splits]

Keldon/Collins is the new Bonner/Blair

[RC_Drunkford]

I don’t understand why people think the Spurs out of all franchises would want to trade for Zion. You think Pop would want his lazy ass on this team?

[RC_Drunkford]

I'm not a Zollins hater and actually could live with him going forward, but what about Pöltl? Is the idea of bringing him back dead? Would be the perfect Wemby backup...probably ok with coming of the bench...keeping our defense alive...maybe sharing some few minutes with Wemby.

he has a career season and earns 20 million per year. Makes no sense, you need someone cheaper

[Baam]

They're gonna get stuck on the treadmill if they keep this up. They need take swings. And to trade that 2031 pick just out of respect for Wemby, he doesn't give a single fk about 2031.

[RC_Drunkford]

They want to keep 2031 to be able to pivot for the 2nd part of Wemby‘s career. The problem is they still don’t have anything close to the right supporting cast for the 1st part

[CGD]

1877922635360993733

SPICY WATCH IN EFFECT

Is Zach Lowe back?? I’ve missed that guy.

[CGD]

They're gonna get stuck on the treadmill if they keep this up. They need take swings. And to trade that 2031 pick just out of respect for Wemby, he doesn't give a single fk about 2031.

Cool. Who, that’s available, are they swinging for exactly?

[exstatic]

They're gonna get stuck on the treadmill if they keep this up. They need take swings. And to trade that 2031 pick just out of respect for Wemby, he doesn't give a single fk about 2031.

Did OKC or Orlando get stuck on the treadmill? Because they both had play in seasons on their way up.

[LeBowen]

Cool. Who, that’s available, are they swinging for exactly?

There are plenty of backup bigs available and Wright wouldn't even have to use FRPs to get them.
Our biggest issue is that we're atrocious in every single minute without Wemby because we don't have another NBA-level big.
Having someone like Valanciunas would be a huge difference maker, even thoug he's nothing more than a solid backup at this point.

[Kevin]

Val is averaging close to 20/10 with awesome efficiency. He’s way more than a backup big. Him and Wemby could play together too since Wemby plays like a SG anyway.

[baseline bum]

There are plenty of backup bigs available and Wright wouldn't even have to use FRPs to get them.
Our biggest issue is that we're atrocious in every single minute without Wemby because we don't have another NBA-level big.
Having someone like Valanciunas would be a huge difference maker, even thoug he's nothing more than a solid backup at this point.

Disagree, our biggest issue is having nothing remotely close to a #2 guy with the most reliable player outside of Wemby being 40 years old and probably retiring in another year in the best case.

[LeBowen]

Disagree, our biggest issue is having nothing remotely close to a #2 guy with the most reliable player outside of Wemby being 40 years old and probably retiring in another year in the best case.

Obviously a legit star would be the difference maker, but if we had a 25ppg scorer with Collins/Bassey still in the rotation, we'd still be a dysfunctional team.

[RC_Drunkford]

Valanciunas is obviously way better than Bassey and Collins, but he‘s also an awful rim protector. I‘m fine with trading for him, but a shotblocker would be the player we need

[jjspur]

If we can trade two or three seconds or the Charlotte pick for Jonas Valancuinas, I think that's the extent the the spurs would do for this trade season. Nothing too flashy, an under the radar move. Going for a big trade/contract just isn't in the spurs nature especially at the deadline. Doing nothing is not the best move considering other teams will be making moves soon enough.

I agree with the many people on this board that want a difference maker, and it would be absolutely great, I just don't see the spurs doing it. Somewhere in between like the JVAL trade possibly, but I think that's probably the best we can hope for.

If the spurs decide to do nothing, at least bring up Riley Minix. He seems to be doing pretty well in Austin. Lets see what he can do for the big club. (I think he can do more than garbage time Siddy)

[scott]

This 5 days off would have been a fine time for Brian Wright to make a trade, be able to bring that player in, and get a few practices. Probably could have even done one of his press conferences. Do you think he's back from his ski trip yet? Maybe he and RC are in Bratislava scouting 7th graders?

[ginobilized]

This 5 days off would have been a fine time for Brian Wright to make a trade, be able to bring that player in, and get a few practices. Probably could have even done one of his press conferences. Do you think he's back from his ski trip yet? Maybe he and RC are in Bratislava scouting 7th graders?

I don't often publicize my deep ties to the organization, but, word is....they have found the next centerpiece (Keith Bogans for the kids). Keep that on the down-low.

[CGD]

There are plenty of backup bigs available and Wright wouldn't even have to use FRPs to get them.
Our biggest issue is that we're atrocious in every single minute without Wemby because we don't have another NBA-level big.
Having someone like Valanciunas would be a huge difference maker, even thoug he's nothing more than a solid backup at this point.

I don’t think the poster I was replying to meant “backup big” as the move he had in mind. I do agree on the backup big issue tho.

[CGD]

Disagree, our biggest issue is having nothing remotely close to a #2 guy with the most reliable player outside of Wemby being 40 years old and probably retiring in another year in the best case.

Exactly. I think folks want to land the #2 yesterday. Problem is even Spurs wanted to, not sure who is available worth pushing the chips in for before the deadline.

[tbdog]

Val is fine. I think wizards let him go for a pair of good seconds.

[KingKev]

I hate to be a debbie downer as I’m just as anxious to improve the roster as most but I don’t see it happening. Tre Jones probably the most desirable piece that would make sense for both sides as we could find him a spot on a playoff team, moving him frees up time for Wesley/Castle and he probably won’t be brought back. Although Tre getting sent to a shit team might allow him to showcase himself ahead of free agency. JV for Tre and a few SRPs could work.

Zollins will cost multiple SRPs and/or taking back bad money back even though given his play and him flipping the bird PATFO would have less reservations moving him.

Keldon is costly to move and suspect PATFO would only move him to the right environment.

Devin probably actually still remains near untouchable.

Probably isn’t much of a market for Barnes and CP3 to begin with I really don’t see us selling low on either unless its for our usual league wide charity/goodwill.

I’m preparing to be curb stomped in the play-in with the current roster and you all should be too.

[Mal]

I somehow Bulls decide to tank this season, Lavine should be an option, as 2nd chair to Wemby.

[scott]

I hate to be a debbie downer as I’m just as anxious to improve the roster as most but I don’t see it happening. Tre Jones probably the most desirable piece that would make sense for both sides as we could find him a spot on a playoff team, moving him frees up time for Wesley/Castle and he probably won’t be brought back. Although Tre getting sent to a shit team might allow him to showcase himself ahead of free agency. JV for Tre and a few SRPs could work.

Zollins will cost multiple SRPs and/or taking back bad money back even though given his play and him flipping the bird PATFO would have less reservations moving him.

Keldon is costly to move and suspect PATFO would only move him to the right environment.

Devin probably actually still remains near untouchable.

Probably isn’t much of a market for Barnes and CP3 to begin with I really don’t see us selling low on either unless its for our usual league wide charity/goodwill.

I’m preparing to be curb stomped in the play-in with the current roster and you all should be too.

I'm prepared to not even make the play-in, tbh. The Suns may be imploding, but when it comes down to it, they'll know how to win the games to get them into the top-10, whereas the Spurs will be trotting Sochan out to the 3pt line with the game on the line.

[KingKev]

I'm prepared to not even make the play-in, tbh. The Suns may be imploding, but when it comes down to it, they'll know how to win the games to get them into the top-10, whereas the Spurs will be trotting Sochan out to the 3pt line with the game on the line.

Probably a fair assessment. I think we all have a pretty good understanding of this team. Too many holes on the roster to break above 500 and Castle is the only player who has the talent to break out from here. Maybe Dev can consistently get his stroke back but nit holding my breath. After the trade deadline if they can’t make upgrades might be time to soft tank and gain a few spots in the draft.

[RC_Drunkford]

This 5 days off would have been a fine time for Brian Wright to make a trade, be able to bring that player in, and get a few practices. Probably could have even done one of his press conferences. Do you think he's back from his ski trip yet? Maybe he and RC are in Bratislava scouting 7th graders?

They practiced for a whopping 1 hour during these 5 days…

[baseline bum]

Exactly. I think folks want to land the #2 yesterday. Problem is even Spurs wanted to, not sure who is available worth pushing the chips in for before the deadline.

I'll race Main Character and Zollins out to the airport quick to catch a plane out to Sac for Fox.

[Mal]

I'll race Main Character and Zollins out to the airport quick to catch a plane out to Sac for Fox.

Sacto is on 7 win streak, they are not doing any trades soonish

[scott]

They practiced for a whopping 1 hour during these 5 days…

Wow for real? I understand there are things bigger than sport happening in the area, but that surprises me.

[baseline bum]

Sacto is on 7 win streak, they are not doing any trades soonish

Can I still send them on a flight to Sacramento anyways?

[baseline bum]

Wow for real? I understand there are things bigger than sport happening in the area, but that surprises me.

Did Coach Fivehead join BWright on that ski trip?

[RC_Drunkford]

Wow for real? I understand there are things bigger than sport happening in the area, but that surprises me.

they had another practice today, but yeah before that they only did a 1 hour shootaround at the arena

[RC_Drunkford]

Nick Richards from the Hornets would probably be a better option than JV. Even Chris Boucher who's on an expiring should be better defensively. Day'Ron Sharpe from the Nets could even be a long term piece. Really no excuse for Wright not to trade for a back up C, with even some young centers on good contracts being available.

[Seventyniner]

https://www.theringer.com/2025/01/13/nba/kevin-durant-phoenix-suns-trade-jimmy-butler-rumors


Why the Phoenix Suns Should Trade Kevin Durant

Rather than acquire Jimmy Butler, the Suns should be trying to learn from him instead. As painful as a reset might be, holding on to a star for too long presents an even grimmer picture.


That sounded great a few months ago, but it doesn’t change the fact that these Suns were still concocted, with extreme risk, in a microwave. Undercooked, overprocessed. They’re a monument to the jittery petulance of one extremely wealthy 45-year-old man. Today’s NBA doesn’t reward impatience, though. Just look around. From Boston to Oklahoma City to Cleveland to Memphis to Houston to Orlando to Denver. Good things come to those who wait, care about continuity, and own a calendar.



Would the Thunder have any interest in virtually guaranteeing themselves at least one NBA title with a full-circle kumbaya? Could the Warriors be tempted to cap their dynastic run with one last hurrah? Could the Spurs have their cake and eat it, too? Do the Magic see themselves as a team that’s ready to win it all right now—in all seriousness, assuming Franz Wagner returns this season—and are they willing to part with several picks and someone like Anthony Black to do it?

[LeBowen]

Ishbia will never see reason and trade KD unless he asks out.
I'd do 2 FRPs, handful of SRPs, Jeremy, Tre, Keldon and Collins for KD.
They have no use for Devin, Jeremy and Tre would be good additions for them.
They can use those FRPs and Keldon+Collins to get another piece.

[baseline bum]

Ishbia will never see reason and trade KD unless he asks out.
I'd do 2 FRPs, handful of SRPs, Jeremy, Tre, Keldon and Collins for KD.
They have no use for Devin, Jeremy and Tre would be good additions for them.
They can use those FRPs and Keldon+Collins to get another piece.

I mentioned trading Sochan for Durant previously, but I think I probably wouldn't give up that much on second thought. This plus the 2026 Spurs pick with ATL swap and either the 2025 ATL or 2027 ATL plus whatever seconds it would take would be my offer:

https://i.ibb.co/zQ1gTrP/trade.jpg

Lets you keep Sochan as a sixth man in the role he should be playing and lets you keep Tre to shop for a backup big. Plus Keldon is a proven tank commander for Dybantsa and Boozer. Phoenix might get three picks out of someone but doubt they could get two mid firsts like the Spurs can offer with those two ATL picks.

[jjspur]

Nick Richards from the Hornets would probably be a better option than JV. Even Chris Boucher who's on an expiring should be better defensively. Day'Ron Sharpe from the Nets could even be a long term piece. Really no excuse for Wright not to trade for a back up C, with even some young centers on good contracts being available.

Agree 100%, but whom or what would we send back or just waive if we were to make such a trade ?

[LeBowen]

I mentioned trading Sochan for Durant previously, but I think I probably wouldn't give up that much on second thought. This plus the 2026 Spurs pick with ATL swap and either the 2025 ATL or 2027 ATL plus whatever seconds it would take would be my offer:

https://i.ibb.co/zQ1gTrP/trade.jpg

Lets you keep Sochan as a sixth man in the role he should be playing and lets you keep Tre to shop for a backup big. Plus Keldon is a proven tank commander for Dybantsa and Boozer. Phoenix might get three picks out of someone but doubt they could get two mid firsts like the Spurs can offer with those two ATL picks.

Your suggestion is a fair price if they're to blow it up, but if they want to retool and keep competing they'll want more.

[baseline bum]

Your suggestion is a fair price if they're to blow it up, but if they want to retool and keep competing they'll want more.

Only reason they'd trade Durant is blowing things up though. That roster badly needs torching.

[LeBowen]

Only reason they'd trade Durant is blowing things up though. That roster badly needs torching.

KD is probably close to quitting on them, it's his usual m.o.

[montgod]

Agree 100%, but whom or what would we send back or just waive if we were to make such a trade ?

Richards is definitely not a bad idea esp with his favorable contract. I know it's a few more years than we'd like, but I'd also look into what Portland might want for Ayton or Williams. Not the best options, but not horrible either for what the Spurs need downlow.

[LeBowen]

Richards is definitely not a bad idea esp with his favorable contract. I know it's a few more years than we'd like, but I'd also look into what Portland might want for Ayton or Williams. Not the best options, but not horrible either for what the Spurs need downlow.

My question would be why is Richards even available?
He averaged 11/10 as a starter.
Williams is back, but he's too injury prone to be relied on.
Spurs should definitely look into it if he's available.
Give them back their fake FRP and one of Sidy/Wesley/Branham.

[montgod]

My question would be why is Richards even available?
He averaged 11/10 as a started.
Williams is back, but he's too injury prone to be relied on.
Spurs should definitely look into it if he's available.
Give them back their fake FRP and one of Sidy/Wesley/Branham.

Probably going to be available since his contract will be up next season and he's easily moveable at 5mill but he might be moveable to give more minutes to their decent young big man backup in Diabate.

Not sure who you're saying the FRP should go to but I wouldn't give one up for Richards. Ayton, sure, give them a fake FRP and some team fodder.

[LeBowen]

Probably going to be available since his contract will be up next season and he's easily moveable at 5mill but he might be moveable to give more minutes to their decent young big man backup in Diabate.

Not sure who you're saying the FRP should go to but I wouldn't give one up for Richards. Ayton, sure, give them a fake FRP and some team fodder.

Charlotte pick Spurs own converts into two seconds this summer. It's 1-14 protected and Hornets are obviously not making the playoffs, we'll get two seconds instead.
Even without it Spurs have 18 SRPs available over the next 7 drafts, got to start using them sometime.

[scott]

Plus Keldon is a proven tank commander for Dybantsa and Boozer. Phoenix might get three picks out of someone but doubt they could get two mid firsts like the Spurs can offer with those two ATL picks.

Unfortunately for the Suns, getting a tank commander won't help them in the Dybantsa/Boozer chase. They've mortgaged their 2026 FRP to the hilt with 3 different swaps (lol Suns). The Wizards have Swap rights to the Suns pick, and THEN Orlando has the right to swap their pick with the least favorable of WAS/PHX, and THEN Memphis has the right to swap their pick with the least favorable of WAS/PHX/ORL.

This is like the pick version of paying off your credit cards with even more credit cards :lol

[LeBowen]

Just to put into perspective how fucked they are.

https://i.imgur.com/wTcbvkE.png

The only thing that can save the franchise is a Booker to Houston trade. Other than that they're completely fucked.

[Kevin]

Hard to figure out the price for KD. He turned 36 three months ago with signs of decline. If he was two years younger I'd be all in on KD but at this age I am not so sure. Even with KD the Spurs are still mere pretenders through next season in which Durant turns 37. Asking KD to be a second option the following season at age 38 for a team that might be ready to contend is a stretch.

I wouldn't pay full price for KD because he doesn't fit our window. At a discount I'll take him but there's no reason the Suns wont get full price. If he was only two years younger.

[LeBowen]

Hard to figure out the price for KD. He turned 36 three months ago with signs of decline. If he was two years younger I'd be all in on KD but at this age I am not so sure. Even with KD the Spurs are still mere pretenders through next season in which Durant turns 37. Asking KD to be a second option the following season at age 38 for a team that might be ready to contend is a stretch.

I wouldn't pay full price for KD because he doesn't fit our window. At a discount I'll take him but there's no reason the Suns wont get full price. If he was only two years younger.

A lot of KD's value would be in mentorship for Wemby, the only player with relatable style to Wemby's.
Wemby's biggest issue right now is learning which shots are bad and how to get into positions for easier shots.

KD definitely doesn't have anything going for him other than basketball and he'll surely play until he's 40.
Yeah, he's past his prime, but he's at 27/6/4 on 52/39/84 which is still top10 worthy.
If Suns blow it up, 2 FRPs is a fair price, I'd rather have KD for 3 years than whoever we draft in #20 to #30 range for their entire career.
We just have to wait for the Suns to blow it up.

If he doesn't want to go back to OKC, Spurs will be his best option because not many teams have the ability to take his salary and trade multiple FRPs.

[Splits]

I mentioned trading Sochan for Durant previously, but I think I probably wouldn't give up that much on second thought. This plus the 2026 Spurs pick with ATL swap and either the 2025 ATL or 2027 ATL plus whatever seconds it would take would be my offer:

https://i.ibb.co/zQ1gTrP/trade.jpg

Lets you keep Sochan as a sixth man in the role he should be playing and lets you keep Tre to shop for a backup big. Plus Keldon is a proven tank commander for Dybantsa and Boozer. Phoenix might get three picks out of someone but doubt they could get two mid firsts like the Spurs can offer with those two ATL picks.

lol nobody wants this Bonner/Blair trash. None of these "players" will be in the league in 5 years. Spurs FO is retarded that any of these contracts even exist. Hoping to dump them for a KD is wishcasting

[Kevin]

A lot of KD's value would be in mentorship for Wemby, the only player with relatable style to Wemby's.
Wemby's biggest issue right now is learning which shots are bad and how to get into positions for easier shots.

KD definitely doesn't have anything going for him other than basketball and he'll surely play until he's 40.
Yeah, he's past his prime, but he's at 27/6/4 on 52/39/84 which is still top10 worthy.
If Suns blow it up, 2 FRPs is a fair price, I'd rather have KD for 3 years than whoever we draft in #20 to #30 range for their entire career.
We just have to wait for the Suns to blow it up.

If he doesn't want to go back to OKC, Spurs will be his best option because not many teams have the ability to take his salary and trade multiple FRPs.

I think a more win now team like OKC or Houston will out bid the Spurs. He wont be cheap because he could put those asset laden teams over the top. Spurs aren't ready for him. Pass.

[Duncan2177]

lol nobody wants this Bonner/Blair trash. None of these "players" will be in the league in 5 years. Spurs FO is retarded that any of these contracts even exist. Hoping to dump them for a KD is wishcasting

Phoenix would hang up the phone. :lol

[Splits]

Phoenix would hang up the phone. :lol

BWrong: Yo Jonesy
Jonesy: Yo Wrongy
BWrong: I have the 2025 version of Bonner/Blair for sale. Hear me out, they're called Keldon/Collins
Jonesy: Mmmm, spicy tell me more
BWrong: You give up your best player for these 2, I'll throw in a couple of g-leaguers you never heard of, Branham and Wesley
Jonesy: Tempting, but all I'm doing is eating your shit
BWrong: But wait, there's more. You can also have 2 FRP in the late 20s and 5 SRP which will ALSO BE OUT OF THE LEAGUE IN 5 YEARS
Jonesy: Bra, can I get a Whataburger franchise with your delusion?
BWrong: Deal
Jonesy: nah I'm good, peace

[exstatic]

A lot of KD's value would be in mentorship for Wemby, the only player with relatable style to Wemby's.
Wemby's biggest issue right now is learning which shots are bad and how to get into positions for easier shots.

KD definitely doesn't have anything going for him other than basketball and he'll surely play until he's 40.
Yeah, he's past his prime, but he's at 27/6/4 on 52/39/84 which is still top10 worthy.
If Suns blow it up, 2 FRPs is a fair price, I'd rather have KD for 3 years than whoever we draft in #20 to #30 range for their entire career.
We just have to wait for the Suns to blow it up.

If he doesn't want to go back to OKC, Spurs will be his best option because not many teams have the ability to take his salary and trade multiple FRPs.

How do you figure we’re drafting at 20-30?

[LeBowen]

How do you figure we’re drafting at 20-30?

Because KD trade won't happen before the summer and our 2026 pick is tied to Hawks swap.
If we're not a top10 team by 2027 draft it would be an unmitigated disaster.
Hawks are also young (no pun intended) and won't miss the play-in in horrible East.

[baseline bum]

lol nobody wants this Bonner/Blair trash. None of these "players" will be in the league in 5 years. Spurs FO is retarded that any of these contracts even exist. Hoping to dump them for a KD is wishcasting

They're just there to match $50 million in salary. The picks are what they'd want.

[baseline bum]

Unfortunately for the Suns, getting a tank commander won't help them in the Dybantsa/Boozer chase. They've mortgaged their 2026 FRP to the hilt with 3 different swaps (lol Suns). The Wizards have Swap rights to the Suns pick, and THEN Orlando has the right to swap their pick with the least favorable of WAS/PHX, and THEN Memphis has the right to swap their pick with the least favorable of WAS/PHX/ORL.


Shit, I was thinking Houston had their 2026 and this trade was under the assumption they had already moved Booker to Houston get their draft capital back.

[scott]

Just to put into perspective how fucked they are.

https://i.imgur.com/wTcbvkE.png

The only thing that can save the franchise is a Booker to Houston trade. Other than that they're completely fucked.

One minor correct to this table for those who care, the 2030 is another double mortgaged swap not an outright pick going out. WAS has first swap rights with PHX's pick, and then MEM has the right to swap with the least favorable of WAS/PHX. Otherwise they'd had a Stepien rule violation.

And this is also a good reminder of the Hidden Dragon that is Houston. Not only are they on the right trajectory but they have all of these crazily concocted picks coming their way. For example, in 2029 they get the TWO most favorable of HOU/DAL/PHX. So, don't root too hard for DAL 2030 Swap... because it might also mean that a high DAL29 pick heads to Houston.

[exstatic]

I think a more win now team like OKC or Houston will out bid the Spurs. He wont be cheap because he could put those asset laden teams over the top. Spurs aren't ready for him. Pass.

I think the only way Phoenix gets their picks back from Houston is with Booker. OKC has shown zero interest in trading picks for players.

[Kevin]

I think the only way Phoenix gets their picks back from Houston is with Booker. OKC has shown zero interest in trading picks for players.

I still think OKC would out bid us plus KD just doesn't fit the timeline. I am very much a supporter of consolidating picks for a proven star but not KD. Just a tad too old.

[KingKev]

Does anyone really think KD would want to come here to end his career? I highly doubt it.

[CGD]

Does anyone really think KD would want to come here to end his career? I highly doubt it.

But but he went to UT for 5 months that one time.

[mo7888]

I still think OKC would out bid us plus KD just doesn't fit the timeline. I am very much a supporter of consolidating picks for a proven star but not KD. Just a tad too old.

Ok, I'll play. What do you think OKC would realistically offer to outbid us?

[Kevin]

Ok, I'll play. What do you think OKC would realistically offer to outbid us?

Harenstein and Dort for matching salaries with Chet moving to C plus picks.

Hartenstein and Dort would slot in as the Spurs best two way players besides Wemby so I dont want to hear about how they have little to no trade value.

Still though looking at OKC's roster construction not sure if KD is worth blowing it up. Makes them weaker at C in a conference with Joker/Wemby/AD plus they dont have any bad contracts to include in the deal unlike the Spurs. That's a stacked cost controlled roster.

Even so the Warriors (Kuminga/picks), Lakers (Reaves/picks), Timberwolves (Randle and Dilly plus picks), Nuggets (MPJ/picks) all make way more sense than the Spurs.

[exstatic]

Harenstein and Dort for matching salaries with Chet moving to C plus picks.

Hartenstein and Dort would slot in as the Spurs best two way players besides Wemby so I dont want to hear about how they have little to no trade value.

Still though looking at OKC's roster construction not sure if KD is worth blowing it up. Makes them weaker at C in a conference with Joker/Wemby/AD plus they dont have any bad contracts to include in the deal unlike the Spurs. That's a stacked cost controlled roster.

Even so the Warriors (Kuminga/picks), Lakers (Reaves/picks), Timberwolves (Randle and Dilly plus picks), Nuggets (MPJ/picks) all make way more sense than the Spurs.

That doesn’t work n the playoffs. Dallas fuckng bullied him.

[Kevin]

That doesn’t work n the playoffs. Dallas fuckng bullied him.

I agree but even so other win now teams make more sense. We're not getting KD for a poo poo platter with two first round picks on top. Other teams can easily outbid that with proven talent like Randle or MPJ.

KD is making 51M so the Suns are going to take back massive salaries so the inclusion of someone like Randle or MPJ make sense even if they make a lot of money.

[100%duncan]

I'm prepared to not even make the play-in, tbh. The Suns may be imploding, but when it comes down to it, they'll know how to win the games to get them into the top-10, whereas the Spurs will be trotting Sochan out to the 3pt line with the game on the line.

:lol

[jjspur]

My question would be why is Richards even available?
He averaged 11/10 as a starter.
Williams is back, but he's too injury prone to be relied on.
Spurs should definitely look into it if he's available.
Give them back their fake FRP and one of Sidy/Wesley/Branham.

Excellent trade proposal, but I'd go a little bit further by giving them back their almost useless (to us) FRP, Wesley & Branham for salary matching purposes, and Gleague Sidy to buddy up with Tidjane Salaun . Its basically addition by subtraction for us and the hornets get to start over again like they do every few years. :eyebrows All kidding aside, Richards should be a spurs target and we have some assets to trade for him. Do it BWright.

[mo7888]

Harenstein and Dort for matching salaries with Chet moving to C plus picks.

Hartenstein and Dort would slot in as the Spurs best two way players besides Wemby so I dont want to hear about how they have little to no trade value.

Still though looking at OKC's roster construction not sure if KD is worth blowing it up. Makes them weaker at C in a conference with Joker/Wemby/AD plus they dont have any bad contracts to include in the deal unlike the Spurs. That's a stacked cost controlled roster.

Even so the Warriors (Kuminga/picks), Lakers (Reaves/picks), Timberwolves (Randle and Dilly plus picks), Nuggets (MPJ/picks) all make way more sense than the Spurs.

I don't think the Thunder do that deal. As ex pointed out, they'd get killed in the playoffs. I also don't think the Laker package is as good as ours, nor the Minnesota package (they don't have many picks left). The Warriors though, I'll grant that they can make a very compelling offer and it would come down to how much they value Kuminga.

In the end, it's really going to come down to what KD wants. Nobody is trading real assets for him if he makes it clear that he doesn't want to go there. We just have to hope he sees the value of playing with Wemby. If he does, the cost to get him won't be as high as it should be.

[LittleCriminal]

Spurs should go after Bol Bol... Imo..

[mo7888]

Do we have enough picks to get Lauri + Fox this summer?

Or Fox and KD before the deadline?

[ginobilized]

Spurs should go after Bol Bol... Imo..

I've considered this move myself. Shaq would be pushing for Bol Bol to start. It sounds like a mad professor, Pop kinda move.

[ohmwrecker]

This whole thread is where bad ideas go to die.

[scott]

Do we have enough picks to get Lauri + Fox this summer?

Or Fox and KD before the deadline?

Yes... but I think this would be the definition of "blowing our load". I personally would not want to dip to under 6 picks over the next 7 years. We currently are sitting on 11, if you (rightfully) do not count the CHA pick and do count the CHI pick (which I think is the right thing to do for now)

[Leetonidas]

Bol Bol is trash. There's a reason he's been nothing but a fringe bench player his entire career

[mo7888]

Yes... but I think this would be the definition of "blowing our load". I personally would not want to dip to under 6 picks over the next 7 years. We currently are sitting on 11, if you (rightfully) do not count the CHA pick and do count the CHI pick (which I think is the right thing to do for now)

If that's the case, I'd probably want a couple of cheap shooters for this season and hope that Phx blows it up or that we can pry Lauri this summer.

Im defining cheap shooter as something like:

Cha- Branham + salary ballast + their pick back + another 2nd
Spurs- Curry and NSJ

That gives us a seasoned shooter and a young shooter (43% from 3)

[DPG21920]

Would love to swap Keldon’s money for a better 3&D player.

[ohmwrecker]

Would love to swap Keldon’s money for a better 3&D player.
Anyone in mind?

[DPG21920]

Anyone in mind?

It’s tough and it may not happen directly in a player for player trade. May be something like someone liking Keldon and SA getting an expiring back and then re-using that money they are paying him on a free agent that fits that mold better.

[ohmwrecker]

It’s seems pretty clear that he’s hit his ceiling and it seems to be a mental thing. He probably doesn’t have much value in a straight up trade, but maybe he has value as a trade sweetener. I would hope that having Wemby would make SA a more attractive free agent spot, but it’s pretty quiet so far.

[scott]

Anyone in mind?

Aaron Nesmith is the guy I want... but IND is too smart to fuck up their team with Keldon. mo7888 had a great idea where if IND goes for Cam Johnson, we get involved and pluck IND's talent and send our tank commanders and draft compensation to BKN

[ohmwrecker]

I like Nesmith, but I don’t think Indiana going to let him go. If the Spurs are going to get rid of Keldon, it will probably have to be a situation where a good player is having a slump year because they don’t like the team they’re on or some personal reason and then the Spurs will have to gamble. Keldon doesn’t have a lot of value at this point.

[Bruno]

Spurs' primary goal is to be a contender for Wembanyama's best years. I would say Spurs are aiming to fight for the title every single year between 2027 and 2035. Spurs best assets (first round draft picks, 2026 cap space, Castle, Sochan, Vassell...) will be used to reach that goal. That's why I don't see at all Spurs using first round draft picks to get a role player like Cam Johnson or a 35 years old all star like Butler or KD. These players just won't be able to help enough Spurs to reach their main target.

What I don't know is how Spurs FO will approach this year's team. Is making the play-in a secondary goal for them?
If it is, Spurs could make little trades to improve the team using second round picks.
If it isn't, they will do nothing. They might view getting a better draft pick as a fine comepensation for the loss of experience the team will get by missing the play-in.

[baseline bum]

Does anyone really think KD would want to come here to end his career? I highly doubt it.

You think he'd rather be stuck with Beal than playing next to Wemby?

[100%duncan]

Spurs' primary goal is to be a contender for Wembanyama's best years. I would say Spurs are aiming to fight for the title every single year between 2027 and 2035. Spurs best assets (first round draft picks, 2026 cap space, Castle, Sochan, Vassell...) will be used to reach that goal. That's why I don't see at all Spurs using first round draft picks to get a role player like Cam Johnson or a 35 years old all star like Butler or KD. These players just won't be able to help enough Spurs to reach their main target.

What I don't know is how Spurs FO will approach this year's team. Is making the play-in a secondary goal for them?
If it is, Spurs could make little trades to improve the team using second round picks.
If it isn't, they will do nothing. They might view getting a better draft pick as a fine comepensation for the loss of experience the team will get by missing the play-in.

You cant just go from a non-playoff team to a contender overnight unless you acquire Luka/Giannis/Jokic. It has to be some kind of play-in to first/2nd rounders to WCF/real contender status. Kind of like how Rockets, OKC, Minnesota, Dallas have been building in recent years.

If they don't make the play-in this season, they have only 2 more years to be on time with your proposed timeline.

[spursistan]

You cant just go from a non-playoff team to a contender overnight unless you acquire Luka/Giannis/Jokic. It has to be some kind of play-in to first/2nd rounders to WCF/real contender status. Kind of like how Rockets, OKC, Minnesota, Dallas have been building in recent years.

If they don't make the play-in this season, they have only 2 more years to be on time with your proposed timeline.

Yeah, this is roughly my timetable for the Spurs, which would hopefully mean we have done a good job surrounding Wemby with talent and he's stayed healthy in the process.

2025: barely miss or lose in the Play-in (0-2 or 0-1)
2026: First round loss as 6th-7th-8th seed (1-4 or 0-4)
2027: Second round loss as 4th-5th seed (3-4 or 2-4)
2028: Conference Finals loss or Finals
2029: The start of 'Championship or Bust' Era

[mo7888]

Spurs' primary goal is to be a contender for Wembanyama's best years. I would say Spurs are aiming to fight for the title every single year between 2027 and 2035. Spurs best assets (first round draft picks, 2026 cap space, Castle, Sochan, Vassell...) will be used to reach that goal. That's why I don't see at all Spurs using first round draft picks to get a role player like Cam Johnson or a 35 years old all star like Butler or KD. These players just won't be able to help enough Spurs to reach their main target.

What I don't know is how Spurs FO will approach this year's team. Is making the play-in a secondary goal for them?
If it is, Spurs could make little trades to improve the team using second round picks.
If it isn't, they will do nothing. They might view getting a better draft pick as a fine comepensation for the loss of experience the team will get by missing the play-in.

I think you're right....at least I fear you are... that would be a waste of 4 years of Wembys talent and probably result in a trade request. If you're correct in how you think the FO sees it then our only hope is that Wemby pressures them this summer to give him talent now.

[exstatic]

jB2YfdYDPOU

[KingKev]

You think he'd rather be stuck with Beal than playing next to Wemby?

Short window to ring. He has always controlled his own destiny. His list will be VERY short with win now teams.

[mo7888]

jB2YfdYDPOU

Interesting. He does kind of jump off the screen when you watch Kings games.

[exstatic]

Interesting. He does kind of jump off the screen when you watch Kings games.

He prob wouldn’t cost a ton, either. I think moves like this would be better than dropping a wad on some aging has been former Star. He’s 25, and shoots 42% from 3, high level on both 3 and D.

[mo7888]

He prob wouldn’t cost a ton, either. I think moves like this would be better than dropping a wad on some aging has been former Star. He’s 25, and shoots 42% from 3, high level on both 3 and D.

I don't know what he'd cost being on such a cheap contract, but he'd be a perfect complimentary player.

[exstatic]

I don't know what he'd cost being on such a cheap contract, but he'd be a perfect complimentary player.

They’re probably going to lose him in the summer of 26, regardless. Their payroll is pretty fat already, and Fox is looking for a second big payday.

[scott]

Keon Ellis is the kind of player who, by nature of his bargain contract and his role, will cost you a lot more than his value on the court, kind of like Julian Champagnie for us, to the point where they are practically untouchable.

He's in the 2nd year of a 3-year $5MM contract. That is not a typo. Only $5MM over 3 years. He makes Champ's contract look expensive :lol Since Doug Christie took over, he's also a pretty core part of their rotation, averaging 31.2 MPG in January.

The Kings are a team that's fairly close to the tax line ($3.2MM under right now), and place an extraordinary value on guys like Ellis because there is close to a zero percent chance to get that kind of impact and production from a similar salary. This is the same kind of situation we have with Champ (though his involvement has been, probably mistakenly, reduced of late).

The Kings aren't going to let him go for cheap, because he's extremely valuable to them so long as they are chasing a Playoff Spot. If it came to the trade deadline of 2026 and they were completely out of the playoff picture... maybe they'd look to trade him (and he'd be a lot cheaper to obtain then, because the unique value that his contract provides would be almost fully extinguished, but he'd still be extremely valuable as a rental for teams in 2nd Apron scenarios), but even if they expected to lose him in the summer of 2026 he'd still have value to keep on the team because he contributes to what they are doing on the court at only slightly above a min contract (his 2025-26 salary will be $200k more than 4rd year vet deal).

I have no clue what SAC would ask for Ellis... but he's a 90th percentile player in Overall CraftedPlusMinus, 97th percentile in CDPM, who's a 42% career 3P shooter on maybe the biggest bargain contract in the entire NBA... wouldn't shock me if SAC wanted two FRPs to even have a conversation.

[Kevin]

The usual suspects are targeting excellent role players on team friendly contracts who are playing on win now teams. They did this last year with Naz Reid and Herb Jones. Those guy aren't really available and they cost way more than you think because they're flawless assets relative to their salary.

Spurs ask about Keon Ellis and I ask for one of the ATL picks. If the Spurs hang up I could care less because I still have Ellis and my team is looking to win.

[ginobilized]

I'm beginning to wonder if Pop's stroke and his position as Head of Basketball Operations will preclude us from making ANY moves.
Seems like it might take a corporate restructure to be able to do anything. Knowing Pop, he'll never choose to let go of the reins.
I guess, I'm just wondering IF the Spurs can actually do something without Pop's approval?

[scott]

I'm beginning to wonder if Pop's stroke and his position as Head of Basketball Operations will preclude us from making ANY moves.
Seems like it might take a corporate restructure to be able to do anything. Knowing Pop, he'll never choose to let go of the reins.
I guess, I'm just wondering IF the Spurs can actually do something without Pop's approval?

Pop's the President of Basketball Operations, but not the king. From a traditional Corporate Governance perspective, there are many safeguards against an organization being put into limbo by an executive being incapacitated. For one, RC Buford is the CEO of Spurs Sports and Entertainment and ostensibly Pop's boss. RC can just reassign Pop's duties to whomever he chooses.

If, by some circumstance, the Spurs have some sort of other arrangement where Pop does not report to RC and they are peers, then it would be up to the Board to simply reassign Pop's responsibilities either on a temporary or permanent basis.

Long story short... if the Spurs are "stuck" because Pop is out sick, they are even bigger idiots than some people seem to think.

[ginobilized]

Pop's the President of Basketball Operations, but not the king. From a traditional Corporate Governance perspective, there are many safeguards against an organization being put into limbo by an executive being incapacitated. For one, RC Buford is the CEO of Spurs Sports and Entertainment and ostensibly Pop's boss. RC can just reassign Pop's duties to whomever he chooses.

If, by some circumstance, the Spurs have some sort of other arrangement where Pop does not report to RC and they are peers, then it would be up to the Board to simply reassign Pop's responsibilities either on a temporary or permanent basis.

Long story short... if the Spurs are "stuck" because Pop is out sick, they are even bigger idiots than some people seem to think.

Thanks! Of course, all that makes sense.
I'm self-employed and have never had any interface with corporate practices. It makes me all the more curious as to what is going on behind the curtain at Spurs, inc.

[RC_Drunkford]

great...I said we should get this guy, but of course Brian Wrong couldn't get it done

1879645984822800473

[scott]

great...I said we should get this guy, but of course Brian Wrong couldn't get it done



Can't sell our SRPs for Cash Considerations if we trade them all away for useful role players, tbh

[LeBowen]

Can't sell our SRPs for Cash Considerations if we trade them all away for useful role players, tbh

I read today they increased ticket prices for 25-26 season by 15% to 25% depending on the seat, corporate greed knows no limits.
Before people start talking about Wemby, don't forget that the ownership hasn't paid any luxury tax in many years and just benefitted from the solidarity fund (50% of luxury tax generated in a season is split between teams under the luxury tax line).

Selling SRPs for cash should be banned.

[scott]

I read today they increased ticket prices for 25-26 season by 15% to 25% depending on the seat, corporate greed knows no limits.
Before people start talking about Wemby, don't forget that the ownership hasn't paid any luxury tax in many years and just benefitted from the solidarity fund (50% of luxury tax generated in a season is split between teams under the luxury tax line).

Selling SRPs for cash should be banned.

Have patience. There is a plan. You just don't understand it.

[DPG21920]

I read today they increased ticket prices for 25-26 season by 15% to 25% depending on the seat, corporate greed knows no limits.
Before people start talking about Wemby, don't forget that the ownership hasn't paid any luxury tax in many years and just benefitted from the solidarity fund (50% of luxury tax generated in a season is split between teams under the luxury tax line).

Selling SRPs for cash should be banned.

I have season seats and haven’t seen that increase fyi….not saying it may not be happening, but haven’t seen anything yet personally.

[Kevin]

Playing around on the ESPN NBA Trade Machine and discovered the Bulls have a 16M trade exception. They can include that exception as outgoing salary in order to make salaries match. So I thought of this deal.

Spurs get:
LaVine
Vuch
16M trade exception so salaries match

Bulls get:
Barnes
Zollins
They get their own pick back
25 ATL Pick which is out of the lottery as of today. Hawks remaining strength of schedule is 14th.

Spurs get LaVine a player who many dream Dev could turn into. A much needed backup center who is making reasonable money through next season. Dev goes to bench with LaVine in the starting lineup.

Starting Lineup:
1.CP3
2.LaVine
3. Champ
4. Sochan
5. Wemby

Bench:
Tre
Dev
Castle
Keldon
Vuch

Lot of scoring punch coming off the bench now.

Bulls dump a lot of salary, regain control of their own pick while picking up the a mid first from this years draft.

[scott]

For a not very serious thought experiment... let's talk about Zion some more.

On the most recent episode of Vecine's podcast, they make a good case why from a basketball POV, Zion makes a lot of sense for the Spurs.

So just for fun, let's say you are Brian Wright. You've been in Eastern Europe with RC for the last 3 months scouting 7th graders and eating hash brownies. The Pelicans call you up and ask what deal you'd be willing to do for Zion. What do you say? (It's fine to say "I want to avoid this fucker so much that they need to throw in Trey III and 5 FRPs" - I just want to get a sense of what everyone's best offer would be)

For me, I'd say the best I can do is Keldon + Collins for Zion and Daniel Theis.

Why is Theis included? He at least gives us another body at C that we are losing with Collins, he's on a vet minimum expiring deal, and this helps NOP get under the tax.

Why am I doing this deal? I get a look at Zion, and if nothing else I just waive his non-GTD deal in the offseason and I've shed Keldon and Collins' deals without having to give up any draft capital.

[Kevin]

For a not very serious thought experiment... let's talk about Zion some more.

On the most recent episode of Vecine's podcast, they make a good case why from a basketball POV, Zion makes a lot of sense for the Spurs.

So just for fun, let's say you are Brian Wright. You've been in Eastern Europe with RC for the last 3 months scouting 7th graders and eating hash brownies. The Pelicans call you up and ask what deal you'd be willing to do for Zion. What do you say? (It's fine to say "I want to avoid this fucker so much that they need to throw in Trey III and 5 FRPs" - I just want to get a sense of what everyone's best offer would be)

For me, I'd say the best I can do is Keldon + Collins for Zion and Daniel Theis.

Why is Theis included? He at least gives us another body at C that we are losing with Collins, he's on a vet minimum expiring deal, and this helps NOP get under the tax.

Why am I doing this deal? I get a look at Zion, and if nothing else I just waive his non-GTD deal in the offseason and I've shed Keldon and Collins' deals without having to give up any draft capital.

You gotta give up one first rounder for a natural talent like Zion plus Zollins is a turd.

I'd offer Zollins plus their choice of KJ/Barnes plus the 27ATL pick.

Zion is a great fit on the Spurs. Amazing natural talent, only 25 next season, PF with a respectable three ball who collapse's defense's with drives to the hoop. His contract isn't bad when you factor in matching salaries for the first year.

75% max potential Zion is still a top 30 player.

[Kevin]

If you really wanna get crazy you could offer Dev plus filler for Zion and hold on to the picks and while maintaining future cap flexibility since Dev and Zions contracts are pretty close long term.

[scott]

You gotta give up one first rounder for a natural talent like Zion plus Zollins is a turd.

I'd offer Zollins plus their choice of KJ/Barnes plus the 27ATL pick.

Zion is a great fit on the Spurs. Amazing natural talent, only 25 next season, PF with a respectable three ball who collapse's defense's with drives to the hoop. His contract isn't bad when you factor in matching salaries for the first year.

75% max potential Zion is still a top 30 player.

Nope, I'm not giving up any FRPs for Zion. That might be what NOP requires, but I'm not going to be the one to do it. The guy has worked himself into a non-guaranteed deal, can't make practice or flights on time, and is always hurt.

75% max potential Zion needs to factor in him only playing 30 games. It's like trading for Nephew at this point.

[Kevin]

Nope, I'm not giving up any FRPs for Zion. That might be what NOP requires, but I'm not going to be the one to do it. The guy has worked himself into a non-guaranteed deal, can't make practice or flights on time, and is always hurt.

75% max potential Zion needs to factor in him only playing 30 games. It's like trading for Nephew at this point.

If you trade for Zion you're making a long shot gamble that this is the wake up call he needs. If you assume he'll more or less stay on the same track then don't bother trading for him. He's a spin on the roulette wheel and its a matter of how much one is willing to bet.

[mo7888]

For a not very serious thought experiment... let's talk about Zion some more.

On the most recent episode of Vecine's podcast, they make a good case why from a basketball POV, Zion makes a lot of sense for the Spurs.

So just for fun, let's say you are Brian Wright. You've been in Eastern Europe with RC for the last 3 months scouting 7th graders and eating hash brownies. The Pelicans call you up and ask what deal you'd be willing to do for Zion. What do you say? (It's fine to say "I want to avoid this fucker so much that they need to throw in Trey III and 5 FRPs" - I just want to get a sense of what everyone's best offer would be)

For me, I'd say the best I can do is Keldon + Collins for Zion and Daniel Theis.

Why is Theis included? He at least gives us another body at C that we are losing with Collins, he's on a vet minimum expiring deal, and this helps NOP get under the tax.

Why am I doing this deal? I get a look at Zion, and if nothing else I just waive his non-GTD deal in the offseason and I've shed Keldon and Collins' deals without having to give up any draft capital.

I'd offer what you put forth. If I offered any picks it'd be the Charlotte 1st. If they don't consider that I'd be surprised because I'd imagine they've already made the decision to waive him in the offseason.

[scott]

If you trade for Zion you're making a long shot gamble that this is the wake up call he needs. If you assume he'll more or less stay on the same track then don't bother trading for him. He's a spin on the roulette wheel and its a matter of how much one is willing to bet.

I believe it was you who made the roulette wheel analogy before. When you're playing roulette, with 35:1 payouts on 1:37 odds, you don't need to bet big on each number. Thus why I'm not putting down a draft pick. It's a bet I'm willing to make, but I'm only putting $10 of chips on that number, not a $100 chip.

[Kevin]

I believe it was you who made the roulette wheel analogy before. When you're playing roulette, with 35:1 payouts on 1:37 odds, you don't need to bet big on each number. Thus why I'm not putting down a draft pick. It's a bet I'm willing to make, but I'm only putting $10 of chips on that number, not a $100 chip.

They can have the rights to the Spurs/Celtics 2028 pick swap. Celtics look stacked for a long run and those are prime Wemby years. Zollins and one of Barnes/KJ for plus the 2028 swap for Zion. Its a long shot that Zion or the 2028 pick swap are of a real consequence.

Spurs and Pel's are trading a long shot for a long shot.

[Mr. Body]

There's no way in hell the Spurs are trading for Zion and Vecenie knows this. Clickbait.

[spurraider21]

Playing around on the ESPN NBA Trade Machine and discovered the Bulls have a 16M trade exception. They can include that exception as outgoing salary in order to make salaries match. So I thought of this deal.

Spurs get:
LaVine
Vuch
16M trade exception so salaries match

Bulls get:
Barnes
Zollins
They get their own pick back
25 ATL Pick which is out of the lottery as of today. Hawks remaining strength of schedule is 14th.
i think your concept of the trade exception is backwards.

by swapping lavine/vuc for barnes/zollins, the bulls already have 63 million in outgoing salary, while the spurs only have 35 mil outgoing

if anything, its the spurs who would need the big trade exception to fit that much incoming salary.

[spurraider21]

There's no way in hell the Spurs are trading for Zion and Vecenie knows this. Clickbait.
did vecenie report that the spurs actually have interest?

[Obstructed_View]

Gee, I'd settle for a number 8 pick in the lottery who is capable of shooting a basketball.

That said, the biggest problem thus far isn't lack of drafted talent, it's a massive failure to get any improvement whatsoever from any of them.

[scott]

They can have the rights to the Spurs/Celtics 2028 pick swap. Celtics look stacked for a long run and those are prime Wemby years. Zollins and one of Barnes/KJ for plus the 2028 swap for Zion. Its a long shot that Zion or the 2028 pick swap are of a real consequence.

Spurs and Pel's are trading a long shot for a long shot.

The Spurs cannot trade away BOS's swap. They can only trade away their 2028 pick, which would be the higher of SAS/BOS.

[scott]

did vecenie report that the spurs actually have interest?

No, he did not. What dipshits like Mr. Body can't wrap their head around, because they are too busy fantasizing being pissed on by other dudes, is that some people enjoy discussing hypotheticals. Mr. Body should kill himself.

Also, I hope if and when this site ever gets updated, the bug whereby Quoted Posts avoid the ignore feature eventually gets fixed.

[Kevin]

i think your concept of the trade exception is backwards.

by swapping lavine/vuc for barnes/zollins, the bulls already have 63 million in outgoing salary, while the spurs only have 35 mil outgoing

if anything, its the spurs who would need the big trade exception to fit that much incoming salary.

Ok you would have to throw in KJ in that case to make salaries work.

You could also do:

Spurs Get:
LaVine 43M (rich man's Dev)
Vuch

Bulls Get:
Dev 29M (poor man's LaVine)
Zollins+ one of Mal or Blake for matching salary
regain full control of their own pick
ATL 25 pick.

Starting Lineup:
1. CP3
2. LaVine
3. Champ
4. Barnes
5. Wemby

Tons of spacing in the starting lineup and the defense will be just fine with Wemby on the floor.

Bench:
Tre
Castle
KJ
Sochan
Vuch

Vuch and KJ are top option off the bench with Tre and Castle as player makers along with Sochan's defense.
That's a nice mix players with tons of workable options and variations.

[ambchang]

I’m probably the only guy who is still intrigued by Zion. Yes, huge risks given his terrible work ethic and attitude, but the upside is still very high.

He can attack the rim like nobody’s business, he can create and play make. He doesn’t play defence. If he has the attributes to be at least a decent one. His shooting is bad so he cannot play with sochan or castle now which is a huge issue, unless you trade one of the two away.

I would give up sochan, a lottery protested 26 spurs pick, the Charlotte “pick”, chicagos pick, 26 Atlanta pick for Zion anf trey. Throw in the zollins and Malaki’s plus seconds to make salaries match.

[Kevin]

Its still going to cost two first round picks or equivalent. Too much talent, youth and elite production when on the floor to go for anything less.

Trade proposal for Zion that the Pels actually might accept:

Sochan (roughly equal value of a first round pick)
Zollins and Barnes for matching salary
2028 Spurs pick with Boston swap attached.

Sochan almost has to be included since they both play PF and the Spurs cant pay Zion 40M and Sochan 20M long term.

Its a gamble and not for the faint of heart. The odds of the 28 swap being of major consequence are a long shot with Prime Wemby and the Tatum/Brown lead Celtics. Still think someone will beat this offer and another pick will have to be included.

Once again the talent, youth and elite production when on the floor really drive up the price despite Zion's many flaws. At least one premium asset will have to be included.

[ginobilized]

I see Zion as a rich man's Dejuan Blair with ACLs.
I cannot see a world, other than one directed by David Lynch (RIP), where the Spurs make a risky move like this.

[Pauleta14]

Zion is such a stupid idea... :lol

Wemby needs a guy that can play inside/out, preferably high IQ

And that's not even mentioning the work ethic and character incompatibility...

[BacktoBasics]

Zion has no accountability and no disciple. I think a lot of people immediately go to "he just needs an organization with better structure that will hold him accountable" and sometimes that's the case and works. However I don't think that's Zion. I think he would respond even worse to a team not babying him. Some people are just built to coast on their talent and ego. Then when the talent fades or in this case he's injury prone what you're left with is the ego.

I think he goes down as one of the most wasted talents ever to hit the league.

[Kevin]

People are so quick to throw in the towel on a 24 year old with borderline GOAT level talent. Not even willing to part with picks that will most likely land in the teens 3-7 years from now.

[LeBowen]

People are so quick to throw in the towel on a 24 year old with borderline GOAT level talent. Not even willing to part with picks that will most likely land in the teens 3-7 years from now.

Are you serious?
He can't shoot.
He's a horrible defender.
That's when he's healthy.

[scott]

Zion has no accountability and no disciple. I think a lot of people immediately go to "he just needs an organization with better structure that will hold him accountable" and sometimes that's the case and works. However I don't think that's Zion. I think he would respond even worse to a team not babying him. Some people are just built to coast on their talent and ego. Then when the talent fades or in this case he's injury prone what you're left with is the ego.

I think he goes down as one of the most wasted talents ever to hit the league.

I actually think the thing that would be best for Zion is if he just got straight up waived this offseason in the hopes it would be a huge wake up call for him. I have no way of knowing, but I suspect that Zion is like a lot of kids in his 20s, with that feeling of invincibility. He's likely ever had zero accountability on him, and missing all of these games in the NBA has yet to really cost him anything. Getting waived and having to go out and sign a one-year deal for a fraction of his previous contract to rehab his image might be the only thing that can slap some sense into him.

[baseline bum]

I’m probably the only guy who is still intrigued by Zion. Yes, huge risks given his terrible work ethic and attitude, but the upside is still very high.

He can attack the rim like nobody’s business, he can create and play make. He doesn’t play defence. If he has the attributes to be at least a decent one. His shooting is bad so he cannot play with sochan or castle now which is a huge issue, unless you trade one of the two away.

I would give up sochan, a lottery protested 26 spurs pick, the Charlotte “pick”, chicagos pick, 26 Atlanta pick for Zion anf trey. Throw in the zollins and Malaki’s plus seconds to make salaries match.

What's your offer if NOP says Trey's off the market, you can only have Zion?

[baseline bum]

Zion has no accountability and no disciple. I think a lot of people immediately go to "he just needs an organization with better structure that will hold him accountable" and sometimes that's the case and works. However I don't think that's Zion. I think he would respond even worse to a team not babying him. Some people are just built to coast on their talent and ego. Then when the talent fades or in this case he's injury prone what you're left with is the ego.

I think he goes down as one of the most wasted talents ever to hit the league.

Always blows me away hearing that argument as if the Pelicans aren't one of the better organizations in the league. They have repeatedly gotten good players to put around Zion and they have been excellent in the draft. If Zion had Wemby's work ethic and drive they'd probably have a banner hanging in their arena by now.

[baseline bum]

I actually think the thing that would be best for Zion is if he just got straight up waived this offseason in the hopes it would be a huge wake up call for him. I have no way of knowing, but I suspect that Zion is like a lot of kids in his 20s, with that feeling of invincibility. He's likely ever had zero accountability on him, and missing all of these games in the NBA has yet to really cost him anything. Getting waived and having to go out and sign a one-year deal for a fraction of his previous contract to rehab his image might be the only thing that can slap some sense into him.

Zion's gonna keep hitting that snooze button. He's already rich and someone else will come with a bag for him anyways.

[Kevin]

Are you serious?
He can't shoot.
He's a horrible defender.
That's when he's healthy.

Zion averages 24 a game on 58% shooting for his career. Zion never needed a jumper like LeBron and Giannis.

You made up the cant play defense thing because his defensive metrics are fine for his career.

[LeBowen]

Zion averages 24 a game on 58% shooting for his career. Zion never needed a jumper like LeBron and Giannis.

Yeah, Lebron really didn't need a jumpshot in '07 finals when he shot 22% outside the paint and 3 games were really close.
The only two players in modern NBA who never needed a jumpshot were Shaq and Giannis.
And you can say Giannis could've benefitted from it in all those series he shot way below his average against teams well-equipped to deal with him.


You made up the cant play defense thing because his defensive metrics are fine for his career.

Show me one game where he defended opposition's best wing instead of being hidden on defense and just going for weak side blocks?

But according to you, flashy dunks are enough for GOAT poential.
Klay tore his achilles and ACL in 2019, still played more games since those finals up until now than Zion.

He'll be out of the league in a couple of years and broke before he turns 35.

[BacktoBasics]

Always blows me away hearing that argument as if the Pelicans aren't one of the better organizations in the league. They have repeatedly gotten good players to put around Zion and they have been excellent in the draft. If Zion had Wemby's work ethic and drive they'd probably have a banner hanging in their arena by now.

I certainly don’t blame the organization. But the perception that he’s not being held accountable is more about than anything else.

I can also understand the Pels not wanting to completely devolve the relationship with him. Especially with his current trade value not being that great. If the organization and Zion get into a battle it’s only gonna hurt his trade value even more.

[Kevin]

It would nice if Zion had a jumper but he doesn’t need one evidenced by his 58% career shooting percentage.

Yes Zion should guard weaker players on defense so he can save energy for offense. Standard procedure for a top option scorer.

Do you even watch the NBA? This is some pretty elementary stuff.

[scott]

Zion's gonna keep hitting that snooze button. He's already rich and someone else will come with a bag for him anyways.

Probably. Though it wouldn't surprise me to learn that Zion is also already broke somehow :lol

I don't know the going rate of hookers. But Zion might.

[scott]

Plenty of flaws to point to in Zion's game... but those flaws actually fit SAS fairly well.

However, the main flaw (being a lazy fuck, not being available for the majority of games) don't fit any team.