Spurs trade ideas

[Robz4000]

No thanks. Rather just get Trae for that or another pick added to that even. Take our pick out of it and let them keep their pick this year and maybe.

Trae Young costs twice as many picks tbh, including all the ATL picks. Fwiw, don't have a desire for either player.

[CGD]

Trae Young costs twice as many picks tbh, including all the ATL picks. Fwiw, don't have a desire for either player.

Yeah, dealing with ATL will involve surrendering their picks. With their disarray, no way im giving those up.

[MaNu4Tres]

Keldon + Wesley or Malaki +35th pick + CHA 1st ( two 2nds) for Cam Johnson.

[mo7888]

Keldon + Wesley or Malaki +35th pick + CHA 1st ( two 2nds) for Cam Johnson.

I have like Cam's fit here in the SL for a while now. It balances things with Sochan pretty well.

[TD 21]

The value isn't necessarily bad, I just don't see the impetus for the Net to do it. Cam Johnson is a better fit if they trade for a star or in a package for one because of his ability to space the floor.

[exstatic]

The value isn't necessarily bad, I just don't see the impetus for the Net to do it. Cam Johnson is a better fit if they trade for a star or in a package for one because of his ability to space the floor.

The value is bad for a sweet shooting forward on a friendly contract. There isn’t even a real FRP included.

[RC_Drunkford]

Too rich in my view. We only really need to outbid ORL, but they may be hot for Trae or DJ too.

Keldon, Malaki, 8, 35 and maybe CHI pick should do it.

no way, NOLA gonna offer Ingram and a Bridges + Schröder package by the Nets could be in play as well. I'd offer #8, the fake Hornets pick and maybe the 25 CHI pick max. They are actually a team that needs players like Keldon, Malaki and Tre Jones, cause their bench is terrible, but they are clearly looking for a co-starring wing. This would most likely be a 3-4 team deal with Jarret Allen moving to another team as well. With that being said, if Garland is on the table the Spurs need to try to get him, since Garland and Trae Young are basically the only 2 attainable All-Star PGs under 25.

[r0drig0lac]

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1798845432165965991

[LeBowen]

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1798845432165965991

Tbh, that's kind of obvious.
OKC's cap situation is amazing now, but they'd rather get a veteran star player in FA like PG13 so he's off the books by summer 2026.
That's when two max extensions, Chet and Williams, kick in.
A year later SGA gets a gigantic supermax deal.
There's no chance they get Markkanen and keep all three core players.

Current playoff teams have no assets.
Spurs are the best situation and fit for Markkanen if we talk teams out playoff picture right now.

[lefty20]

Sheesh, is there a player out there that Spurs are not favored to get. Seems like we're getting mentioned as outright favs or top 3 favs in every rumor.

[CGD]

no way, NOLA gonna offer Ingram and a Bridges + Schröder package by the Nets could be in play as well. I'd offer #8, the fake Hornets pick and maybe the 25 CHI pick max. They are actually a team that needs players like Keldon, Malaki and Tre Jones, cause their bench is terrible, but they are clearly looking for a co-starring wing. This would most likely be a 3-4 team deal with Jarret Allen moving to another team as well. With that being said, if Garland is on the table the Spurs need to try to get him, since Garland and Trae Young are basically the only 2 attainable All-Star PGs under 25.

Nets said they’re not moving Bridges. PELs are a threat, you’re right. I assumed it’d be tricky bc BI was on an expiring and unclear about his commitment to CLE long term?

[CGD]

^ also, could you imaging giving maxes to BI, Mitchell and Mobley? You’re only trading for BI if CLE if you’re committed to maxing him.

Im actually not that excited about that payroll if I’m them.

[KingKev]

https://twitter.com/TheDunkCentral/status/1798845432165965991

lol there might be a total of 100k globally taking that action unless they have inside info… can mormons even gamble?!?

[MannyIsGod]

Cavs get:
2024 #4 pick
2024 #8 pick
2025 Spurs own FRP 1-10 protected
Keldon Johnson
Devonte’ Graham

Spurs get:
Darius Garland
2024 #20 pick


All this for GARLAND? Wow man. I think he's a good player, but no thanks.

3 FRP and a rotation player? At least make them eat the Collins contract.

[Robz4000]

All this for GARLAND? Wow man. I think he's a good player, but no thanks.

3 FRP and a rotation player? At least make them eat the Collins contract.

Two firsts tbh (Spurs are getting a first back), and the #4 and #8 this year would be middling firsts in a normal draft. That being said, still wouldn't do it since I don't think Garland is that good.

[Degoat]

The problem with the spurs trading for an all Star caliber guard is they set the market for all star point guards when they traded DJ, teams are going to want a similar package in return.

[z0sa]

Grabbing Markkannen would be fucking huge.

[heyheymymy]

I love Markkannen's fit next to Wemby but my interest with Lauri always rests on the idea that Markk actually WANTS to be in San Antonio and buys in to the culture etc and so when he becomes a FA Spurs just sign him to a deal and he agrees since he wants to be there.

Not really calling for a trade with UTA where Ainge will ask for too much in return and then SA has to hope he re-signs in one year.

[tbdog]

I love Markkannen's fit next to Wemby but my interest with Lauri always rests on the idea that Markk actually WANTS to be in San Antonio and buys in to the culture etc and so when he becomes a FA Spurs just sign him to a deal and he agrees since he wants to be there.

Not really calling for a trade with UTA where Ainge will ask for too much in return and then SA has to hope he re-signs in one year.

It is possible that Lauri may reject Spurs. Bulls offered him in a trade and it was rejected by the Spurs. Just a thought.

[heyheymymy]

It is possible that Lauri may reject Spurs. Bulls offered him in a trade and it was rejected by the Spurs. Just a thought.

Agreed. If the interest isn't mutual then it wouldn't work imo. Lauri may want to be his own feature regardless if he's really got that in him or not. I could see SA and Lauri liking the idea though, it's compelling. There's a carve out for Lauri and his chemistry with Wemby could get them far. He's a FA next year. Ball is in his court but I bet role and price could possibly be an issue neither camp could agree on. Maybe neither camp likes the match and this is mostly fan desire anyway.

Always felt like the Spurs sought him back in that Bulls situation but couldn't get a deal they were comfortable with given SA seems historically conservative with trades. So it may work if both groups are enamored with each other and that's the extent of my interest. Not real keen to dump 3 FRPs or whatever trade for this, just come to SA and sign as a FA on your own accord if you think it's the right place for you otherwise best luck.

[exstatic]

Sheesh, is there a player out there that Spurs are not favored to get. Seems like we're getting mentioned as outright favs or top 3 favs in every rumor.

We have draft picks. Lots of them. Even the stupid incompetent NBA media knows how to count.

[exstatic]

I love Markkannen's fit next to Wemby but my interest with Lauri always rests on the idea that Markk actually WANTS to be in San Antonio and buys in to the culture etc and so when he becomes a FA Spurs just sign him to a deal and he agrees since he wants to be there.

Not really calling for a trade with UTA where Ainge will ask for too much in return and then SA has to hope he re-signs in one year.

You don’t do a deal without ink drying on a new contract.

[exstatic]

It is possible that Lauri may reject Spurs. Bulls offered him in a trade and it was rejected by the Spurs. Just a thought.

Spurs wanted picks. If Lauri were included at the time, when his stock was extremely low, there would be no 2025 CHI pick.

[KingKev]

Not advocating for it but sounds like Lavine could be a salary dump in the coming months. Wouldn’t be surprised if the Bulls let him got for a decent young player or a lightly protected FRP just to get him off the books.

[mystargtr34]

Spurs wanted picks. If Lauri were included at the time, when his stock was extremely low, there would be no 2025 CHI pick.

And no Wemby.

[Atl Spur]

Not advocating for it but sounds like Lavine could be a salary dump in the coming months. Wouldn’t be surprised if the Bulls let him got for a decent young player or a lightly protected FRP just to get him off the books.

He could work here if healthy; I’d love to see how this story turns out.

[LeBowen]

He could work here if healthy; I’d love to see how this story turns out.

Sometimes I wonder if some of you are just trying to trigger people with your horrible takes or you're actually that clueless about the game of basketball.

[Atl Spur]

Sometimes I wonder if some of you are just trying to trigger people with your horrible takes or you're actually that clueless about the game of basketball.

My opinions are my opinions kind sir; we can compare opinions/takes if you like :) Zach could thrive next to a VM ( most talented players would ) type player and a coach demanding he play under more control/measured ( he played for pop at the Olympics ) Horrible enough Lebowen? A damn clown show in here:)

[Mr. Body]

Not advocating for it but sounds like Lavine could be a salary dump in the coming months. Wouldn’t be surprised if the Bulls let him got for a decent young player or a lightly protected FRP just to get him off the books.

He's a massively bad contract at this point and the feeling is, as you say, they'll need to use assets to move him.

[LeBowen]

My opinions are my opinions kind sir; we can compare opinions/takes if you like :) Zach could thrive next to a VM ( most talented players would ) type player and a coach demanding he play under more control/measured ( he played for pop at the Olympics ) Horrible enough Lebowen? A damn clown show in here:)

Zach Lavine is a 29 year old who has a terrible injury history.
He plays no defense whatsoever, he's not good for anything other than being a streaky scorer.
And he'll make $136M over the next three seasons.
If you want to ruin our future by taking a flyer on Zach Lavine, idk what to tell you.

The absolute key to building a championship roster in this new CBA is finding players on team-friendly deals.

[Atl Spur]

He's a massively bad contract at this point and the feeling is, as you say, they'll need to use assets to move him.

Please go look at this man’s last 5 yrs stats excluding last years injury year and tell me he wouldn’t be our second best player and he can handle the ball….. players get paid for his skill set; no ski mask necessary!

[montgod]

Zach Lavine is a 29 year old who has a terrible injury history.
He plays no defense whatsoever, he's not good for anything other than being a streaky scorer.
And he'll make $136M over the next three seasons.
If you want to ruin our future by taking a flyer on Zach Lavine, idk what to tell you.

The absolute key to building a championship roster in this new CBA is finding players on team-friendly deals.

This. He's almost on Beal's level if not already there as a player who will most likely be untradeable unless a team is desperate for getting rid of their own horrible contract(s) players.

For reference and this was written before foot surgery at the end of this year:

LaVine recovered from a torn ACL in 2017 and an arthroscopic procedure on the same left knee in 2022 to be a durable player. He played 77 games last season (stat for 2022, only played 25 games in 2023/2024 season).

But LaVine now has three surgeries on his resume, along with $138 million remaining over the next three seasons of his maximum contract. He also has a 15 percent trade kicker that could be negotiated lower if needed to make a trade work.

[Atl Spur]

Zach Lavine is a 29 year old who has a terrible injury history.
He plays no defense whatsoever, he's not good for anything other than being a streaky scorer.
And he'll make $136M over the next three seasons.
If you want to ruin our future by taking a flyer on Zach Lavine, idk what to tell you.

The absolute key to building a championship roster in this new CBA is finding players on team-friendly deals.

Would you prefer Devonte Graham, Keldon , Tre jones vs a healthy Zach? Same money damn near….

[LeBowen]

This. He's almost on Beal's level if not already there as a player who will most likely be untradeable unless a team is desperate for getting rid of their own horrible contract(s) players.

For reference and this was before foot surgery at the end of this year: LaVine recovered from a torn ACL in 2017 and an arthroscopic procedure on the same left knee in 2022 to be a durable player. He played 77 games last season.

But LaVine now has three surgeries on his resume, along with $138 million remaining over the next three seasons of his maximum contract. He also has a 15 percent trade kicker that could be negotiated lower if needed to make a trade work.

The only realistic trade I can see happening with him included is if Nets fail to get anyone relevant and Bulls decide to blow it up and take Simmons' expiring contract for Lavine.
Shooting guard is the only position Spurs shouldn't be looking at.
We got Devin, it's the easiest position to fill and is becoming obsolete in the modern NBA.
If you're under 6'7, noone cares if you can score 30 a night if you can't either defend or playmake really well.


Would you prefer Devonte Graham, Keldon , Tre jones vs a healthy Zach? Same money damn near….

It was the same money in tanking year, so it's irrelevant.
Devonte is done here, he's owed just $2M if Spurs don't pick up his option, which they won't.

And what if we get Lavine? You spend almost 30% of cap space on him. Then what? You play Wesley and Cissoko with him?
If Spurs decided to move Tre and Keldon in a package, they could easily get a late FRP and an expiring contract for them.
Noone's giving you shit for Lavine, that's how awful his value is.

[montgod]

Would you prefer Devonte Graham, Keldon , Tre jones vs a healthy Zach? Same money damn near….

Yes, I'd rather the first three cause there is still flexibility in moving them, having them available to actually play on a regular basis and still plan for the future w/no constraints. Side note, Devonte Graham is only owed 2m for this yr so there is that.

Healthy and Zach won't ever be put in the same sentence for the rest of his career unfortunately.

[Atl Spur]

Yes, I'd rather the first three cause there is still flexibility in moving them, having them available to actually play on a regular basis and still plan for the future w/no constraints. Side note, Devonte Graham is only owed 2m for this yr so there is that.

Healthy and Zach won't ever be put in the same sentence for the rest of his career unfortunately.

77 games out 82 last year is considered healthy….right? Stop with the hyperbole…. I’d take a healthy Zach….period

[LeBowen]

77 games out 82 last year is considered healthy….right? Stop with the hyperbole…. I’d take a healthy Zach….period

We got healthy Zach at home and look how that played out.

[Atl Spur]

The only realistic trade I can see happening with him included is if Nets fail to get anyone relevant and Bulls decide to blow it up and take Simmons' expiring contract for Lavine.
Shooting guard is the only position Spurs shouldn't be looking at.
We got Devin, it's the easiest position to fill and is becoming obsolete in the modern NBA.
If you're under 6'7, noone cares if you can score 30 a night if you can't either defend or playmake really well.



It was the same money in tanking year, so it's irrelevant.
Devonte is done here, he's owed just $2M if Spurs don't pick up his option, which they won't.

And what if we get Lavine? You spend almost 30% of cap space on him. Then what? You play Wesley and Cissoko with him?
If Spurs decided to move Tre and Keldon in a package, they could easily get a late FRP and an expiring contract for them.
Noone's giving you shit for Lavine, that's how awful his value is.

Let’s see here… a castle, devin, zach, sochan, wemby lineup couldn’t thrive? Not advocating this trade but it could work here…..Okc says hi

[LeBowen]

Let’s see here… a castle, devin, zach, sochan, wemby lineup couldn’t thrive? Not advocating this trade but it could work here…..Okc says hi

Alright, I'm done.
I often notice other users laugh at you and straight up refuse to engage with you because of your horrible takes, I give up.
Your'e either trolling or beyond help when it comes to understanding basketball.

Did you watch the game last night?
Even if you didn't, it doesn't take much basketball knowledge to understand that Sochan and Castle would be two non-shooters teams just ignore outside not just the 3pt line, but the paint.

Don't quote me anymore, idk what else to say.

[Atl Spur]

We got healthy Zach at home and look how that played out.

Let’s not cherry-pick lol! We both know he’d be our second best player…cut it out!

[JPB]

Lavine played 25 games in 2023-2024.

Wright needs to get fired ASAP if the idea of trading for him even crosses his mind a millisecond.

[Atl Spur]

Alright, I'm done.
I often notice other users laugh at you and straight up refuse to engage with you because of your horrible takes, I give up.
Your'e either trolling or beyond help when it comes to understanding basketball.

Did you watch the game last night?
Even if you didn't, it doesn't take much basketball knowledge to understand that Sochan and Castle would be two non-shooters teams just ignore outside not just the 3pt line, but the paint.

Don't quote me anymore, idk what else to say.

Sigh….. my takes vs yours are here for all to see:) Stop being emotional and stick to facts. You are insulting me because yo shit don’t hold water! I didn’t ask you for two words

[montgod]

77 games out 82 last year is considered healthy….right? Stop with the hyperbole…. I’d take a healthy Zach….period


Lavine played 25 games in 2023-2024.

Wright needs to get fired ASAP if the idea of trading for him even crosses his mind a millisecond.

Yeah I corrected the blurb I took from the article to show he only played 25 games last year - 2023-2024. And agreed, Wright wouldn't be here long if he did any kind of trade to compromise the outstanding position the Spurs are currently in to try and get a Lavine type player.

[Degoat]

Keldon, Branham, 4, and 35 for Garland… final offer.
Spurs draft Devin Carter at 8
Sign Gary Trent Jr

Garland/Tre
Dev/Carter
Gary Trent/Julian/Sidy
Sochan/Mamu
Wemby/Zach/Dom

Fill out the rest of the roster.

[LeBowen]

Sigh….. my takes vs yours are here for all to see:) Stop being emotional and stick to facts. You are insulting me because yo shit don’t hold water! I didn’t ask you for two words

Facts?
Bulls started the season 5-14, with Lavine playing 35mpg and averaging 21ppg.
As soon as he went down, they went on a 4 game winning streak.
10-7 total before he came back.
Then 5-2 with him in the lineup, but those wins were against Hornets (x2), Spurs, Raptors and Rockets.
He played 35mpg and averaged 20ppg in those 7 games.
Aggrivated his injury and got shut down for the season, Bulls finished the season 19-20 without him.

10-16 with Lavine.
29-27 without him.
Out of those 10 wins with Lavine, exactly two were against playoff teams, Pacers and Heat.
Out of those 29 wins without Lavine, 14 were against playoff teams.

Anything else you'd like to know?

[fafo]

Keldon, Branham, 4, and 35 for Garland… final offer.
Spurs draft Devin Carter at 8
Sign Gary Trent Jr

Garland/Tre
Dev/Carter
Gary Trent/Julian/Sidy
Sochan/Mamu
Wemby/Zach/Dom

Fill out the rest of the roster.
I heard Sam Vecenie from the Game Theory podcast suggest this trade for Garland as well. Maybe including the 2025 CHI pick as a sweetener in the deal. Either way would 100% be down for that. Upgrading the point guard spot while maintaining the ATL picks is as good as it can get.

[KingKev]

He's a massively bad contract at this point and the feeling is, as you say, they'll need to use assets to move him.

Again, not advocating for him here as it just doesn’t make sense for us but if Chicago really does just want to salary dump him and go rebuild mode I actually think there are playoff teams who would take the risk and attempt to eat that albatros of a contract AND offer Chicago a decent young player or lightly protected FRP but it might take adding Caruso to really get anything of substance in return.

Could see the Lakers putting together a package of their usually dogshit plus an FRP. If the Bulls do decide to blow it up would love if we made a run at Caruso. I feel like these are the type of deals we could be involved in to help facilitate in return for some veteran depth.

I recall Pop actually praising Lavine at the Olympics a few years back saying he wanted Lavine to focus on his defense in his role for team USA and Lavine willingly was locked in.

Tend to agree with Atl Spur that a healthy Lavine (big if) could mold into a solid role player

[exstatic]

He's a massively bad contract at this point and the feeling is, as you say, they'll need to use assets to move him.

I’d actually be OK with the contract, especially in a year or two when the new media deal kicks in, if I weren’t convinced that his knee is fucked.

[Knoxxx]

Spurs Favorites to Land Markkanen (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/spurs-favorites-to-land-markkanen/ar-BB1nOR4J?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=3fad6b67cb124926bea9646fd31bbe3a&ei=12)

[DesignatedT]

1799129646748901795

[CGD]

1799129646748901795

Insert “it’s happening” gif

[Dverde]

1799129646748901795

The one thing that troubles me is this idea that Donovan Mitchell wants to sign long-term with the Cavs. He’s been around long enough where he should want to win now, not sign up for a mediocre Cavs team.

[NASpurs]

1799129646748901795

Doesn't Eric Zhang have more credibility than Amico?

[spurraider21]

Sheesh, is there a player out there that Spurs are not favored to get. Seems like we're getting mentioned as outright favs or top 3 favs in every rumor.
spurs have an empty roster and a lot of picks

[CGD]

The one thing that troubles me is this idea that Donovan Mitchell wants to sign long-term with the Cavs. He’s been around long enough where he should want to win now, not sign up for a mediocre Cavs team.

I hear you, but who is that guy? The Ingram thing is trickier for CLE than at first blush given his contract situation. Basically they have to immediately max him, on top of maxes for Mitchell and Mobley.

The other thing is that CLE depleted their pick stores to get Mitchell. Replenishing that shouldn’t be overlooked.

I wonder if the biggest threat to land Garland is Orlando. Suggs and Isaac would look nice other there.

[RC_Drunkford]

He could work here if healthy; I’d love to see how this story turns out.

if GayTLSpur were a GM we'd be stuck with Porzingis and Zach LaVine who both can't play cause they are injured all the time. But at least his fan favorite Josh "wait til you see my dick" Primo would be on the floor :lmao

[RC_Drunkford]

getting Garland while keeping the ATL picks and making a run at Markkanen in '25 free agency would be some elite maneuvering by the FO. Especially when you can sign Markkanen to a frontloaded deal like they did with Keldon.

[T Park]

getting Garland while keeping the ATL picks and making a run at Markkanen in '25 free agency would be some elite maneuvering by the FO. Especially when you can sign Markkanen to a frontloaded deal like they did with Keldon.


You’re not gonna sign him out right, it’s gonna be a Sign and trade.

That said don’t think you’re getting either one or both without those picks going the other way

[KingKev]

getting Garland while keeping the ATL picks and making a run at Markkanen in '25 free agency would be some elite maneuvering by the FO. Especially when you can sign Markkanen to a frontloaded deal like they did with Keldon.

All while stealth tanking for a bottom 4 record in 2024-25; precursors to our next dynasty. Substitute Garland for DJ and i’ll twerk to the whisper song while giving Primo a tug.

[RC_Drunkford]

You’re not gonna sign him out right, it’s gonna be a Sign and trade.

That said don’t think you’re getting either one or both without those picks going the other way

not really. The Spurs can clear about 60 million in cap space by moving Graham, Jones, Keldon, Zach and Branham. You bring in Garland that has you at 92 plus 4th or 8th pick salary which is 7 to 5 million (at least one of them will be traded). The cap for 24-25 is 141 so for 25-26 it's like 150 million. Should be enough to sign Lauri. There's no way he should get over 40 mill.

[TD 21]

Markkanen isn't getting to free agency. No one of that magnitude does anymore because the team will know beforehand whether they're re-signing and if not they'll be traded to a place they are.

I know Amico isn't the most credible source, but there's been too much Garland noise to ignore at this point.

If the Cavaliers can't pull off a Ingram trade, the Spurs chances should increase significantly. Of course, they'd still probably need a third team to give them a more sensible centerpiece than Johnson.

[KingKev]

Markkanen isn't getting to free agency. No one of that magnitude does anymore because the team will know beforehand whether they're re-signing and if not they'll be traded to a place they are.

I know Amico isn't the most credible source, but there's been too much Garland noise to ignore at this point.

If the Cavaliers can't pull off a Ingram trade, the Spurs chances should increase significantly. Of course, they'd still probably need a third team to give them a more sensible centerpiece than Johnson.

Only way he hits free agency is if Utah plays absolute hardball with him AND his suitors and he is determined to get out of Utah. Most likely scenario is someone pays a hefty price of draft assets just to renegotiate and extend him at max money.

[Pauleta14]

Markkanen isn't getting to free agency. No one of that magnitude does anymore because the team will know beforehand whether they're re-signing and if not they'll be traded to a place they are.

I know Amico isn't the most credible source, but there's been too much Garland noise to ignore at this point.

If the Cavaliers can't pull off a Ingram trade, the Spurs chances should increase significantly. Of course, they'd still probably need a third team to give them a more sensible centerpiece than Johnson.

The issue tho is that the team interested in a teade with Utah will want Lauri to garanty them he'll extend no?

It takes away some of Utah's leverage (unless it's for a salary dump, which I don't see)

[KingKev]

The issue tho is that the team interested in a teade with Utah will want Lauri to garanty them he'll extend no?

It takes away some of Utah's leverage (unless it's for a salary dump, which I don't see)

Utah has a fair amount of leverage if Lauri wants out. They will either:

- renegotiate and extend him at or around max money (which means he can’t be traded before the 2025 deadline)
- negotiate a trade this summer to a team he agrees to renegotiate a contract with (again at or around max money)
- dump him at the trade deadline to the highest bidder who hope to resign him

Utah has a nice hand here of both sides agree they are going in different directions and Utah is easily going to get 2-3 lightly protected FRPs in some form or another.

[mudyez]

I like Garland as a player, but what will it take to get him? Shouldn't he have about the same value as DJ?

If we give up a majority of our nice assets, where does this leave us with?

Garland-Vassel-24Rookie-Sochan-Wemby does not get us in contention unless one of the rookies really hit.

I guess, I'm still in the keep the pouder dry team.

[LeBowen]

Utah has a fair amount of leverage if Lauri wants out. They will either:

- renegotiate and extend him at or around max money (which means he can’t be traded before the 2025 deadline)
- negotiate a trade this summer to a team he agrees to renegotiate a contract with (again at or around max money)
- dump him at the trade deadline to the highest bidder who hope to resign him

Utah has a nice hand here of both sides agree they are going in different directions and Utah is easily going to get 2-3 lightly protected FRPs in some form or another.

All of those points are valid, but if they're dumping him at the deadline because he wants to leave, they're not getting anywhere near fair value for him.
Markkanen already said he wants to compete when they sat him in order to tank. There's no way he's signing an extension unless Jazz actually gets him some help and starts competing.
But then again, I don't think Markkanen is good enough to be 1A option on a serious playoff team and Jazz can't really build a team around him with players that will be available this summer.
2025 and 2026 drafts are projected to be really strong and with Markkanen being the best player available on 2024 summer market, they should cash him in, imo.


As for Garland, great fit offensively, I think he can get back on track, he's just a bad fit with Mitchell.
But his defense is bad and his contract is kind of big if he doesn't get back on track offensively.
If he's cheap, go for him. If Cavs ask for too much, I'd rather not.
Either way, I'd prefer DJ on a team friendly deal over Garland.

[Pauleta14]

Utah has a fair amount of leverage if Lauri wants out. They will either:

- renegotiate and extend him at or around max money (which means he can’t be traded before the 2025 deadline)
- negotiate a trade this summer to a team he agrees to renegotiate a contract with (again at or around max money)
- dump him at the trade deadline to the highest bidder who hope to resign him

Utah has a nice hand here of both sides agree they are going in different direction
s and Utah is easily going to get 2-3 lightly protected FRPs in some form or another.

As of today, I agree

But next season, in the 3rd case, teams won't offer much without garanties he'll extend

That was my point, same for OG to NY or Siakam to Indy. TOR diidn't get as much as they could've a summer before

[buttsR4rebounding]

The one thing that troubles me is this idea that Donovan Mitchell wants to sign long-term with the Cavs. He’s been around long enough where he should want to win now, not sign up for a mediocre Cavs team.

The majority of players who say they’ll do whatever it takes to get a ring actually mean they’ll do whatever it takes as long as it doesn’t cost me a dime and many of those even add “and I get mine” in the process.

[CGD]

I like Garland as a player, but what will it take to get him? Shouldn't he have about the same value as DJ?

If we give up a majority of our nice assets, where does this leave us with?

Garland-Vassel-24Rookie-Sochan-Wemby does not get us in contention unless one of the rookies really hit.

I guess, I'm still in the keep the pouder dry team.

Trio of Garland, Vassell, and Wemby is definitely a playoff team next year. Sprinkle Sochan and sign a placeholder vet like Batum and that’s a formidable starting line up. The bench will be the weak point in the short run.

Risacher makes so much sense if Garland is the big play this summer.

[PhantomDashCam]

I'm calling BS on Garland.

The guy has never played 70 games in his career (averages 61.4, missing over a 1/4 of the season each year on average) and to put that number in perspective, Joel Embiid averaged 55 games per season in the same time frame as a perennial MVP candidate in a much more rugged position and style.
Little and brittle... these small guards break down just as much as the big men.

Spurs cannot afford to have a max guy miss that amount of time during these key, Wemby shaping years.

[buttsR4rebounding]

I'm calling BS on Garland.

The guy has never played 70 games in his career (averages 61.4, missing over a 1/4 of the season each year on average) and to put that number in perspective, Joel Embiid averaged 55 games per season in the same time frame as a perennial MVP candidate in a much more rugged position and style.
Little and brittle... these small guards break down just as much as the big men.

Spurs cannot afford to have a max guy miss that amount of time during these key, Wemby shaping years.

:claw

[RC_Drunkford]

I'm calling BS on Garland.

The guy has never played 70 games in his career (averages 61.4, missing over a 1/4 of the season each year on average) and to put that number in perspective, Joel Embiid averaged 55 games per season in the same time frame as a perennial MVP candidate in a much more rugged position and style.
Little and brittle... these small guards break down just as much as the big men.

Spurs cannot afford to have a max guy miss that amount of time during these key, Wemby shaping years.

having a broken jaw doesn't make you injury prone tbh. That's a very rare occasion

[exstatic]

I'm calling BS on Garland.

The guy has never played 70 games in his career (averages 61.4, missing over a 1/4 of the season each year on average) and to put that number in perspective, Joel Embiid averaged 55 games per season in the same time frame as a perennial MVP candidate in a much more rugged position and style.
Little and brittle... these small guards break down just as much as the big men.

Spurs cannot afford to have a max guy miss that amount of time during these key, Wemby shaping years.
Two of those seasons were also the shortened covid seasons. The second one was 72 games, but the first was variable, depending on whether you went into the bubble or not. Cleveland did not, and finished at 65 games played. Garland played in every one of them.

[PhantomDashCam]

having a broken jaw doesn't make you injury prone tbh. That's a very rare occasion


Two of those seasons were also the shortened covid seasons. The second one was 72 games, but the first was variable, depending on whether you went into the bubble or not. Cleveland did not, and finished at 65 games played. Garland played in every one of them.

Great points gents. Cheers.

[SpursBills]

With regards to Garland, there is an argument to be made that not only does his fit affect his performance on the Cavs, but the jaw injury may be affecting his performance more than we think - especially for someone who already deals with strength issues due to his slight frame:

https://x.com/bowser2bowser/status/1791130704048177336

[CGD]

With regards to Garland, there is an argument to be made that not only does his fit affect his performance on the Cavs, but the jaw injury may be affecting his performance more than we think - especially for someone who already deals with strength issues due to his slight frame:

https://x.com/bowser2bowser/status/1791130704048177336

Interesting— if there were ever a team that was going to look at all these details, it’s the Spurs

[LeBowen]

Tbh, we think that Garland's price would be way lower than it actually is.
Cavs won't trade him unless Mitchell signs an extension, but if he does, then they'll want to improve their roster to actually compete and contend.
Giving them Keldon, maybe Tre and a couple of picks won't be enough.

After this draft, the only pick they all the way up until 2030 is 2026 CLE/UTA/MIN swap.
Garland and Allen trades are their only way to make the roster better.

But then again, if Garland is expensive, why not just go for a better player?
Magic will surely be interested and they got players Cavs will value way more than Keldon.

If PATFO is actually in for Garland and it's not just the usual media nonsense, we'll have to find a third team for the trade.

Imo (and I could be way off), realistic trade would be something like:
Keldon
Tre
Collins
#8 Spurs '24
Chicago '25
Charlotte '25 (I suspect they'd want a better pick, maybe something like worse off Spurs/Hawks '27, but that's up for debate)

Garland
Niang (he's on $8.5M and $8.2M for the next two years, but they hate his fat ass and want to get rid of him. Still, he can shoot and would be useful backup PF for the regular season.)

If Spurs don't want to give up Tre for Niang, then Cavs would definitely want a better pick than Charlotte '25 which won't convey.
Tre would be really useful for them as Mitchell's backup since they'd have no point guards on the roster after Garland gets traded away.

Collins and those picks would obviously go to a third team in exchange for a player Cavs would get.
Or they could package those with Allen if they're in for someone making ~35M. That would be their concern.


As you can see, my primary objective is to get rid of Collins because if he's on the roster on the opening day, my enthusiasm for the upcoming season would drop exponentially. :rollin

[scott]

Game Theory podcast proposed 8 + Keldon + Branham + 35 for Garland. I’m 100% in for that, but I don’t think it gets it done… though it does perhaps shed some insight that others might overvalue Keldon because of the counting stats he puts up, not having seen his true identity on the court as low-efficiency, low-IQ chucker.

[RC_Drunkford]

That‘s a heist. I‘d even add the Hornets pick and Tre Jones

[Payote75]

Yea some people think keldon is just a throw in but the media and some around the league actually don't. His numbers show he is a legit acquisition in a trade let alone Cleveland is got for Malaki as they did want to draft the home town product. So the trade starts from there so those two for garland numbers wise hold up very well and upside wise they haven't reached their ceiling well definitely not makaki. So from there it's a matter of value for garland and what picks and salary working etc. Im personally thinking without my spurs colored glasses that it won't take as much as some think to get garland. Also everyone fears ainge RT but spurs don't usually get raked over the coals in trade either. In one of our darkest hours when we traded kawitter we thought we got Rob and yes we should have traded him earlier but didn't turn out so bad now in hindsight no?

[CGD]

Tbh, we think that Garland's price would be way lower than it actually is.
Cavs won't trade him unless Mitchell signs an extension, but if he does, then they'll want to improve their roster to actually compete and contend.
Giving them Keldon, maybe Tre and a couple of picks won't be enough.

After this draft, the only pick they all the way up until 2030 is 2026 CLE/UTA/MIN swap.
Garland and Allen trades are their only way to make the roster better.

But then again, if Garland is expensive, why not just go for a better player?
Magic will surely be interested and they got players Cavs will value way more than Keldon.

If PATFO is actually in for Garland and it's not just the usual media nonsense, we'll have to find a third team for the trade.

Imo (and I could be way off), realistic trade would be something like:
Keldon
Tre
Collins
#8 Spurs '24
Chicago '25
Charlotte '25 (I suspect they'd want a better pick, maybe something like worse off Spurs/Hawks '27, but that's up for debate)

Garland
Niang (he's on $8.5M and $8.2M for the next two years, but they hate his fat ass and want to get rid of him. Still, he can shoot and would be useful backup PF for the regular season.)

If Spurs don't want to give up Tre for Niang, then Cavs would definitely want a better pick than Charlotte '25 which won't convey.
Tre would be really useful for them as Mitchell's backup since they'd have no point guards on the roster after Garland gets traded away.

Collins and those picks would obviously go to a third team in exchange for a player Cavs would get.
Or they could package those with Allen if they're in for someone making ~35M. That would be their concern.


As you can see, my primary objective is to get rid of Collins because if he's on the roster on the opening day, my enthusiasm for the upcoming season would drop exponentially. :rollin

You keep saying this man, and I get it, but I don’t see who’s gonna come in with the WAY better trade option for Garland. Teams are lowballing them bc of the Mitchell situation, the ATL guards dynamics, to a lesser extent, Garland’s post-injury play.

But set that aside, let’s looks at the options:

ORL: They ain’t moving Franz, so is a package built around Suggs and injury prone/offensive liability Jon Issac, that much better than a deal built around Keldon/24FRP and other parts? I don’t.

BYK: it’s a silly a position to take for them, but they are NOT trading Bridges. Is a deal built around Cam Johnson that much better than a Spurs deal? I don’t think so.

NOLA: the Garland-Ingram swap is probably the biggest threat for sure. But does it make sense financially for CLE really? If they trade for Ingram, who is expiring, they do that knowing they have to max him immediately. I think they’ll think long and hard about committing to THREE maxes at the same time for Mitchell-Ingram-Mobley. That an expensive 5th seed.

LAL: is a package built around Rui and far off pick that much better? LOL

[CGD]

Yea some people think keldon is just a throw in but the media and some around the league actually don't. His numbers show he is a legit acquisition in a trade let alone Cleveland is got for Malaki as they did want to draft the home town product. So the trade starts from there so those two for garland numbers wise hold up very well and upside wise they haven't reached their ceiling well definitely not makaki. So from there it's a matter of value for garland and what picks and salary working etc. Im personally thinking without my spurs colored glasses that it won't take as much as some think to get garland. Also everyone fears ainge RT but spurs don't usually get raked over the coals in trade either. In one of our darkest hours when we traded kawitter we thought we got Rob and yes we should have traded him earlier but didn't turn out so bad now in hindsight no?

It didn’t turn out so bad with Kawhi bc of his injury story following the trade, but the trade itself was brutal.

But hey, if they turn Keldon, Malaki, and 8 (all tied to that trade) into Garland, it’s looks A LOT better :-)

[LeBowen]

But set that aside, let’s looks at the options

Magic: I don't think they're trading Suggs, Franz or obviously Banchero. It would probably be Anthony Black, WCJ and picks. But if they think they're one piece away, they'll offer more pick than Spurs. It's Orlando, a franchise that would be perfectly content with parennial second round exit. Adding Garland to Suggs-Franz-Banchero core would give them just that in the weak East. And to match their offer, Spurs would have to give up at least one of those Hawks picks, which won't happen.

Nets: They have Suns picks from KD trade that will be really valuable soon enough. Cam Johnson, DFS, Cam Thomas are all pieces with solid value.

Pelicans: I agree with your Ingram take, but what if Cavs ask for Trey Murphy?

Lakers: Their package is a joke.

Jazz: We keep talking about Markkanen trade, but what if they decide to go in a different direction and start competing. Their situation with the Cavs is even better than ours with the Hawks. They got all of their picks. Going for both Garland and Allen would actually be a good fit with Markkanen.

Heat: Obviously their package would be trash, but it's Riley and somehow he often manages to get his way with next to nothing.

[Payote75]

Understood but also look at first rounder from Chicago 2 second rounders and roads always lead to getting Wemby it's a giant house of cards

[CGD]

Magic: I don't think they're trading Suggs, Franz or obviously Banchero. It would probably be Anthony Black, WCJ and picks. But if they think they're one piece away, they'll offer more pick than Spurs. It's Orlando, a franchise that would be perfectly content with parennial second round exit. Adding Garland to Suggs-Franz-Banchero core would give them just that in the weak East. And to match their offer, Spurs would have to give up at least one of those Hawks picks, which won't happen.

Nets: They have Suns picks from KD trade that will be really valuable soon enough. Cam Johnson, DFS, Cam Thomas are all pieces with solid value.

Pelicans: I agree with your Ingram take, but what if Cavs ask for Trey Murphy?

Lakers: Their package is a joke.

Jazz: We keep talking about Markkanen trade, but what if they decide to go in a different direction and start competing. Their situation with the Cavs is even better than ours with the Hawks. They got all of their picks. Going for both Garland and Allen would actually be a good fit with Markkanen.

Heat: Obviously their package would be trash, but it's Riley and somehow he often manages to get his way with next to nothing.

Good stuff. I think the biggest threat is Orlando, and I’d be curious how they view Garland via-a-vis Young and even Murray.

I’m not sold on the Nets, since they’d want Garland to build WITH Bridges. And, if then the Nets offer is built around distant Suns picks, I think the Spurs would have a more appealing offer of picks (if they choose).

[SpursFan86]

1800624799552848339

Sounds like Garland might be off the table.

[Extra Stout]

Sounds like Garland might be off the table.

At least at the prices other teams are willing to pay to get him, for now. Things may come to a head later, though.

[LeBowen]

If Garland is unavailable, then Mitchell is gone.

Now that trade becomes interesting. Mitchell looks like he wants to play in a big market, but Cavs won't let him go for nothing.

Lakers and Heat best offers are pathetic, Nets could do it with their wings and Phoenix picks, but if Mitchell actually goes there to treadmill, then he's a career loser.
I wouldn't rule out the Rockets, they have a ton of wings Cavs would want and more than enough picks.

[exstatic]

1800624799552848339

Sounds like Garland might be off the table.


At least at the prices other teams are willing to pay to get him, for now. Things may come to a head later, though.

Supposedly, Mitchell does NOT want him there. I don’t think he’ll sign the extension they want him to until Garland is gone.

[Seventyniner]

The Cavs trying to act like they might keep Garland makes sense. They know they won't get anywhere close to equal value in return if they are forced to deal him.

If Mitchell really wants to go to an over-the-cap team the Cavs are better suited by doing a S&T of Mitchell and keeping Garland imo. To me, Mitchell seems like the kind that would secure a big bag and then demand a trade a year or two later.

[CGD]

1800624799552848339

Sounds like Garland might be off the table.

Cool cool. We’ll wait for the trade deadline when his value is even lower. Give me Castle and a big swing at 8.

[Leetonidas]

1801401022549488099

Trae Young + #1 to SA on draft night, it's happening boys, get ready for it

[exstatic]

1801401022549488099

Trae Young + #1 to SA on draft night, it's happening boys, get ready for it

Spurs are not giving the picks back. ATL isn’t trading him to us for anything less. Not
Happening unless they come WAY down on their price. I’d just a soon see him go to the Lakers.

[KingKev]

Those fucking ATL picks are potentially going to give us a true runming mate for Wemby’s dynasty. It certainly isn’t coning from this draft or the current roster

ATL can have Keldon or Vassell and some combo of 2024 #8, Chi 2025 FRP and a future Spurs FRP for DJ though.

[Payote75]

Does anyone think the spurs are on their way if they put a package together for young and the number 1 pick ....then pick Riecher (sorry spelling) and start to fill in around with players that want to be here take less etc. sign a looney should he get released .. does that entice or intrigue anyone? Maybe 4 8 keldon then a combination of Chicago and one of Atlantas picks? Any thoughts?

[SpursDynasty85]

ATL is still young, have the #1 pick, and Jalen Johnson becoming an all star soon. They will be just fine. I’m not sure why people think these ATL picks are going to be amazing. ATL should be in the playoffs the next 3 years. Obviously maximizing an impact player or getting their picks back for Trae or DJ make the most sense.

[Knoxxx]

The problem is any ATL trade that makes sense for us, probably makes them worse in the short term, enhancing the value of their 25 FRP. Its like a paradoxical situation.

[exstatic]

ATL is still young, have the #1 pick, and Jalen Johnson becoming an all star soon. They will be just fine. I’m not sure why people think these ATL picks are going to be amazing. ATL should be in the playoffs the next 3 years. Obviously maximizing an impact player or getting their picks back for Trae or DJ make the most sense.

You’re whistling in the dark. ATL has been bleeding talent for a couple of years. While I like Jalen Johnson, he’s nowhere near an All Star. There’s an NBA adage that applies here. If you’re treading water, and Atlanta has been for 3 years, you don’t get better until you get worse.

[Pauleta14]

Those fucking ATL picks are potentially going to give us a true runming mate for Wemby’s dynasty. It certainly isn’t coning from this draft or the current roster

ATL can have Keldon or Vassell and some combo of 2024 #8, Chi 2025 FRP and a future Spurs FRP for DJ though.

You never know. Spurs built their last era with the 28th and 57th picks

You can find plenty of allstar who were not lottery picks and even more solid players

You need a lot of (scouting) work and a lot of luck

[mudd]

Is tyus Jones available still?

[exstatic]

Does anyone think the spurs are on their way if they put a package together for young and the number 1 pick ....then pick Riecher (sorry spelling) and start to fill in around with players that want to be here take less etc. sign a looney should he get released .. does that entice or intrigue anyone? Maybe 4 8 keldon then a combination of Chicago and one of Atlantas picks? Any thoughts?
No. Atlanta won’t take that offer this summer.

[baseline bum]

Spurs are not giving the picks back. ATL isn’t trading him to us for anything less. Not
Happening unless they come WAY down on their price. I’d just a soon see him go to the Lakers.

Dream scenario, makes that 2025 pick decently likely to be in the top 4 if they trade him for Reaves and picks.

[exstatic]

Dream scenario, makes that 2025 pick decently likely to be in the top 4 if they trade him for Reaves and picks.

I hope they wait until the Feb. deadline, completely sabotaging their season. They might be better next season if they trade him in July, and start camp with a DJ/Reeves back court.

[Pauleta14]

Is tyus Jones available still?

I thought about him too but it's a bad idea to put 2 brothers in competition for the same position AND one of them having his contract ending (and his stats drop bc he'll be a sub)

[baseline bum]

I hope they wait until the Feb. deadline, completely sabotaging their season. They might be better next season if they trade him in July, and start camp with a DJ/Reeves back court.

I doubt it, would much rather they do that trade in the summer and figure out how much better Trae is than the rest of their roster as their season tailspins.

[exstatic]

I doubt it, would much rather they do that trade in the summer and figure out how much better Trae is than the rest of their roster as their season tailspins.

They actually played better without him that last 6 or 8 weeks when he was out injured.

[Payote75]

No. Atlanta won’t take that offer this summer.

I didn't put an offer out there. Just random more wanted feedback on if it was possible if the majority of fans would be happy with young Risasher and then vet fill in around if anyone thinks that's a start of something specific just mish mosh trash. But if you like the idea what does someone think it would take? I'd be for it if the deal is right I like it because youth is still on our side and we still hold some assets

[exstatic]

I didn't put an offer out there. Just random more wanted feedback on if it was possible if the majority of fans would be happy with young Risasher and then vet fill in around if anyone thinks that's a start of something specific just mish mosh trash. But if you like the idea what does someone think it would take? I'd be for it if the deal is right I like it because youth is still on our side and we still hold some assets

I thinks it’s a coin flip or maybe better, that we can get Risacher without trading up. You also did kind of propose an offer.


Maybe 4 8 keldon then a combination of Chicago and one of Atlantas picks? Any thoughts?

That’s what I was shooting down.

[MultiTroll]

I don't see a Free Agency thread.
Previously i have not wanted the uber phaggot Klanus Thompan anywhere near a Spurs jersey.

But if would take a drastic discount from his ABC/Disney/Warriors acting salary I would entertain.

If the following really wanted to play for Wemby and this could happen:

Lebron for 5 mil a year.
Klanus for 5 mil.
Bronny on the bench.

Hey it's far fetched but possible. :lol

[Payote75]

I thinks it’s a coin flip or maybe better, that we can get Risacher without trading up. You also did kind of propose an offer.



That’s what I was shooting down.
Lol my bad meant it more as what would you guys for real give up and do you think trae and Risasher with Wemby and Sochan with fill in is the right mix for speeding up the process without effecting the age window . I like that line up especially if you add vets that supposedly want to be here

Also would anyone be interested in signing an anunoby and trading for trae again all within that age window for success. OG though with Wemby and Sochan would more than Jake up for traes defense for sure

[Ariel]

Lots of things up in the air in Chicago: whether DDR and Drummond re-sign, Caruso and Lavine might get traded. If that pick was already on the fence as it was, losing even one of their main guys (DDR and Caruso) likely signals a rebuild or retool at least, meaning it likely won't convey in '25 or '26, which leaves a one year window ('27) before it turns into 2nds. If the FO has intel (or feels strongly( that's the way they're going, it may be time to cash in on that pick now: too many risks and too long to reap any rewards.

Throw in the fake Charlotte "first", one of the two picks this draft (4/8), Keldon and Tre (can replace him with his brother or someone else), plus as many 2nd round picks as it takes, and you have the foundation of a solid package to offer which shouldn't hurt too bad to part with. What's the best #8 + Chicago '25 + Charlotte '25 + Keldon + Tre + a bunch of 2nd rounders can get?

[KingKev]

Lots of things up in the air in Chicago: whether DDR and Drummond re-sign, Caruso and Lavine might get traded. If that pick was already on the fence as it was, losing even one of their main guys (DDR and Caruso) likely signals a rebuild or retool at least, meaning it likely won't convey in '25 or '26, which leaves a one year window ('27) before it turns into 2nds. If the FO has intel (or feels strongly( that's the way they're going, it may be time to cash in on that pick now: too many risks and too long to reap any rewards.

Add in the fake Charlotte "first", one of the two picks this draft (4/8), Keldon and Tre (can replace him with his brother or someone else), plus as many 2nd round picks as it takes, and you have the foundation of a solid package to offer which shouldn't hurt too bad to part with. What's the best #8 + Chicago '25 + Charlotte '25 + Keldon + Tre + a bunch of 2nd rounders can get?

I’d do that for DJ in a heartbeat.

[CGD]

Lots of things up in the air in Chicago: whether DDR and Drummond re-sign, Caruso and Lavine might get traded. If that pick was already on the fence as it was, losing even one of their main guys (DDR and Caruso) likely signals a rebuild or retool at least, meaning it likely won't convey in '25 or '26, which leaves a one year window ('27) before it turns into 2nds. If the FO has intel (or feels strongly( that's the way they're going, it may be time to cash in on that pick now: too many risks and too long to reap any rewards.

Throw in the fake Charlotte "first", one of the two picks this draft (4/8), Keldon and Tre (can replace him with his brother or someone else), plus as many 2nd round picks as it takes, and you have the foundation of a solid package to offer which shouldn't hurt too bad to part with. What's the best #8 + Chicago '25 + Charlotte '25 + Keldon + Tre + a bunch of 2nd rounders can get?

That’s my top end package for Garland, give or take a Malaki or Wesley here or there.

[Atl Spur]

Could I interest any of you in a Klay Thompson 3/60 contract?

Just here to help you bums! ( na spurs & Rc clown ford )

[Atl Spur]

Check the dates….. too easy!

[Atl Spur]

Silence of course….still here slinging shit

[Excessive Egotist]

I wouldn't mind spending two or three SRPs on Corey Kispert on 12/15, assuming Wizards would sell at that price. Perhaps not.

[ginobilized]

I wouldn't mind spending two or three SRPs on Corey Kispert on 12/15, assuming Wizards would sell at that price. Perhaps not.

The would put us over the quota of one white guy with a headband per team.

[ambchang]

I wouldn't mind spending two or three SRPs on Corey Kispert on 12/15, assuming Wizards would sell at that price. Perhaps not.

No way wizards will go for that. Kid pert is likely in high demand now. They will probably look for a lottery protected first at the least.

[scott]

I put this in the Keldon thread but I'll put it here as well:

SAC Sends:

Huerter

SA Sends:

Keldon
As many SRPs as needed

Salaries match up, but this does put one extra year on the books for SAC which they may not want.

This also doesn't help SAC in any way imaginable... it's just what I would force-trade in 2K :lol

[spurraider21]

makes no sense for Sacto at all. the time to get Huerter from them to try to push for him over Barnes in that trade. at this point keldon's either cap filler as part of a bigger trade, or we just hold him as a reasonably priced player until he's closer to expiring

[scott]

makes no sense for Sacto at all. the time to get Huerter from them to try to push for him over Barnes in that trade.

Save this bullshit for KingsTalk.com, I'm starting a "There's Huerter to Spurs Buzz" thread

[exstatic]

Like the LAC and PG13, they haven’t paid off Huerter’s cost yet. The pick could convey in 25 or 26. Also, they sent out a first for him, and would be unlikely to take a bunch of seconds back

[exstatic]

I may come on board with Huerter next summer if he doesn’t extend and they open the market for him.

[spurraider21]

Huerter would be an upgrade to Branham and would be a nice luxury piece though im not sure what kind of asset id be inclined to send out to acquire him

if we're already looking at champagnie as the reserve 2, making only 3 mil per year, i dont think we have much urgency to make that kind of deal. champagnie's contract runs through the 26-27 season, whereas Huerter would be expiring next year

[scott]

Huerter would be an upgrade to Branham and would be a nice luxury piece though im not sure what kind of asset id be inclined to send out to acquire him

if we're already looking at champagnie as the reserve 2, making only 3 mil per year, i dont think we have much urgency to make that kind of deal. champagnie's contract runs through the 26-27 season, whereas Huerter would be expiring next year

In my ideal scenario, Champ is our starting 3 and Huerter is the backup 2, for now. We then draft a long-term starting 3, at which point Champ moves to the backup 3.

Can never have enough shooting.

[Robz4000]

In my ideal scenario, Champ is our starting 3 and Huerter is the backup 2, for now. We then draft a long-term starting 3, at which point Champ moves to the backup 3.

Can never have enough shooting.

:pop: we like what we have

[Excessive Egotist]

I'm not sure what is worth more these days: a lottery-protected FRP from a team that should be drafting in the 20s from '27 through '33 or '34, or three SRPs we own from other teams. Some front offices might prefer the latter. There is very little difference between a player drafted at 25 and one drafted at 35. Additionally, the contracts for players selected via SRP might be more team-friendly.

[LeBowen]

I'm not sure what is worth more these days: a lottery-protected FRP from a team that should be drafting in the 20s from '27 through '33 or '34, or three SRPs we own from other teams. Some front offices might prefer the latter. There is very little difference between a player drafted at 25 and one drafted at 35. Additionally, the contracts for players selected via SRP might be more team-friendly.

The thing I'm most interested about is what they're planning to do with all those SRPs.
We all know about guaranteed 2, maybe 4 FRPs in 2024 and ATL swap in 2026, but the number of SRPs is just ridiculous in 2026.
We got own and CHI in 2025, with 5 guaranteed SRPs in 2026. Those have to be used for something over the upcoming year.
Own, UTA, NOP/POR, IND/MIA, OKC/DAL/PHI SRPs, all unprotected.

[exstatic]

The thing I'm most interested about is what they're planning to do with all those SRPs.
We all know about guaranteed 2, maybe 4 FRPs in 2024 and ATL swap in 2026, but the number of SRPs is just ridiculous in 2026.
We got own and CHI in 2025, with 5 guaranteed SRPs in 2026. Those have to be used for something over the upcoming year.
Own, UTA, NOP/POR, IND/MIA, OKC/DAL/PHI SRPs, all unprotected.

Technically true, but on all of those combo picks, we get the worst of two or three picks. Unprotected,but the pick we wind up with is an unprotected #53 or some shit.

[LeBowen]

Technically true, but on all of those combo picks, we get the worst of two or three picks. Unprotected,but the pick we wind up with is an unprotected #53 or some shit.

Own, UTA, NOP/POR will all likely be in 35-45 range, IND/MIA in 45-50 and the last one will probably be garbage.
Still, we got way too many SRPs and they should be used when solid rotation players become available.

Knowing PATFO, they'll probably just kick some of those down the road.

Castle/?
Devin/Champagnie
Jeremy/?
?/?
Wemby/?

That's how I see the I won't say long, but mid-term roster as of now.
If we're to actually win some games this year, I'd use those SRPs to move Collins and get an actual backup big.
We won't draft all the question marks we need and we don't want to overpay mediocre players in free agency.

[Seventyniner]

imo picks in the 50s are best used on very young overseas players with no intention of coming to the US unless they happen to make several leaps. No sense picking a player at #55 that would try to force their way onto a roster, or barring that force the Spurs to forfeit their rights.

[scott]

imo picks in the 50s are best used on very young overseas players with no intention of coming to the US unless they happen to make several leaps. No sense picking a player at #55 that would try to force their way onto a roster, or barring that force the Spurs to forfeit their rights.

The Spurs are once again leaders in innovation, and are now using picks in the 30s to do this!

[scott]

Would love to hear any and all ideas that get Keldon and Collins off this team.

[DPG21920]

Keldon + a future pick for Cam Johnson? Gives SA a legit shooter on a similar deal to Keldon which also give SA a Sochan lineup option (Cam in for Sochan if need be) to eliminate teams so easily being able to sag off Sochan and have others guard Wemby.

[CGD]

The thing I'm most interested about is what they're planning to do with all those SRPs.
We all know about guaranteed 2, maybe 4 FRPs in 2024 and ATL swap in 2026, but the number of SRPs is just ridiculous in 2026.
We got own and CHI in 2025, with 5 guaranteed SRPs in 2026. Those have to be used for something over the upcoming year.
Own, UTA, NOP/POR, IND/MIA, OKC/DAL/PHI SRPs, all unprotected.

We have 3 SRPs this year: our, CHI, and PELs. Should have good value actually.

[Mugen]

Keldon + a future pick for Cam Johnson? Gives SA a legit shooter on a similar deal to Keldon which also give SA a Sochan lineup option (Cam in for Sochan if need be) to eliminate teams so easily being able to sag off Sochan and have others guard Wemby.

Unfortunately, that's the the type of trade they'd never do as it'd likely piss off Keldon & Klutch tbh.

[baseline bum]

Would love to hear any and all ideas that get Keldon and Collins off this team.

Build a time machine and trade Keldon last summer when he might have had some value. Or even better summer before last when he could have probably gotten you a mid first round pick that could have been flipped into a 20030 first.

[CGD]

Would love to hear any and all ideas that get Keldon and Collins off this team.

Those two and the cupboard for disgruntled Giannis?

Alternatively, those for the corpse of Middleton and picks from MIL?

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

We have 3 SRPs this year: our, CHI, and PELs. Should have good value actually.

Spurs don’t have the NO second anymore after trading it to Charlotte with Graham’s contract.

[scott]

Those two and the cupboard for disgruntled Giannis?

Alternatively, those for the corpse of Middleton and picks from MIL?

The Middleton idea is tempting. He’d at least be another vet presence who wouldn’t play like a complete moron (when he is able to play), but he’s definitely picking up that $31MM player option for next year.

Does MIL even have any picks to trade?

Giannis of course I’d be in on… but doesn’t seem like a Spursy trade, even if I think Giannis is kind of a Spursy player.

[spurraider21]

:lmao you think you're getting picks on top of middleton for keldon/zollins? :lmao

we'd be the ones having to attach assets to get that deal done

[scott]

:lmao you think you're getting picks on top of middleton for keldon/zollins? :lmao

we'd be the ones having to attach assets to get that deal done

All depends on his prognosis, tbh, which I admit I don’t know what it is… or honestly even what his injury is.

If he’s toast, he’s just $60MM on the books for nothing for whoever has him.

If this is just temporary, yeah, we’d be the ones who had to add picks.

[Mal]

The Middleton idea is tempting. He’d at least be another vet presence who wouldn’t play like a complete moron (when he is able to play), but he’s definitely picking up that $31MM player option for next year.

Does MIL even have any picks to trade?



He wouldnt be picking. He would agree on 3 yrs deal for declining this option. Something like, decline 34 mil, but agree for 3x25 mil, which would net him additional 40 mil, money he wouldn't be getting as 35 yo UFA.
But Bucks are not trading him for Collins, Branham, Wesley, Keldon or whoever else would be part of package.

[spurraider21]

All depends on his prognosis, tbh, which I admit I don’t know what it is… or honestly even what his injury is.

If he’s toast, he’s just $60MM on the books for nothing for whoever has him.

If this is just temporary, yeah, we’d be the ones who had to add picks.
if he's toast, why are we even talking about trading for him?

[scott]

if he's toast, why are we even talking about trading for him?

I refer you back to my primary objective… getting Keldon and Collins off the roster.

[scott]

He wouldnt be picking. He would agree on 3 yrs deal for declining this option. Something like, decline 34 mil, but agree for 3x25 mil, which would net him additional 40 mil, money he wouldn't be getting as 35 yo UFA.
But Bucks are not trading him for Collins, Branham, Wesley, Keldon or whoever else would be part of package.

Well I don’t even want him next year on his $31MM option, let alone for 3 more years for $75MM. So I guess I’m out.

[Mal]

Would love to hear any and all ideas that get Keldon and Collins off this team.

Any of them could go 1 for 1 in trade for guy like Kuzma, Cam Johnson. Thinking of tanking team, or teams looking to unload some longer deal, to clear cap earlier. But i dont know about availability of those guys but doubt both are in long term plans. Spurs could add SRPs if thats even remotely close what they are looking for

[exstatic]

We have 3 SRPs this year: our, CHI, and PELs. Should have good value actually.

Pels pick is in 2026 according to realgm’s future picks page.

[exstatic]

The Middleton idea is tempting. He’d at least be another vet presence who wouldn’t play like a complete moron (when he is able to play), but he’s definitely picking up that $31MM player option for next year.

Does MIL even have any picks to trade?

Giannis of course I’d be in on… but doesn’t seem like a Spursy trade, even if I think Giannis is kind of a Spursy player.

MIL doesn’t have a clean pick until 20131.

[CGD]

Pels pick is in 2026 according to realgm’s future picks page.

got it— tankathon must not have caught up yet.

[CGD]

He wouldnt be picking. He would agree on 3 yrs deal for declining this option. Something like, decline 34 mil, but agree for 3x25 mil, which would net him additional 40 mil, money he wouldn't be getting as 35 yo UFA.
But Bucks are not trading him for Collins, Branham, Wesley, Keldon or whoever else would be part of package.

Odds are they wouldn’t take that deal now, but that Milwaukee situation seems very combustible. Not sure what they’re expecting to get back for an aging, hurt, and overpaid Middleton— certainly not a 3:1 from a Houston who admittedly has better youth than us.

And they really have no other way to get better— who’s taking on 3 more years of Dame at this point?

They’re kinda screwed.

[CGD]

Who says no?

MIL: Herro; Keldon
MÍA: Dame
SAS: Robinson; MIA 30FRP + 28swap

Note: MIL can’t send OUT multiple players bc of apron thing.

[scott]

Who says no?

MIL: Herro; Keldon
MÍA: Dame
SAS: Robinson; MIA 30FRP + 28swap

Note: MIL can’t send OUT multiple players bc of apron thing.

I'd do Keldon for Robinson straight up... you're gonna also give me a FRP and a swap from an aging team?

Yes please!

[CGD]

I'd do Keldon for Robinson straight up... you're gonna also give me a FRP and a swap from an aging team?

Yes please!

lol, that would be a poor use of the decreasing Keldon contract tbh

The key take away in looking for trades for MIL is that these new apron restriction really make it hard for them to find a trade that moves the needle at all. Sucks to be them. Incredibly this trade aligns well on the numbers.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

lol, that would be a poor use of the decreasing Keldon contract tbh

The key take away in looking for trades for MIL is that these new apron restriction really make it hard for them to find a trade that moves the needle at all. Sucks to be them. Incredibly this trade aligns well on the numbers.

Due to the second apron a Milwaukee trade would be something like a player for player (or two maybe) with the incoming player having smaller salary than the outgoing and only a possible 2031 second rounder as bait(or a 2031 first swap, which they'd be crazy to do). Not looking good for them at all, especially since they're so top heavy in terms of salaries.

[jesterbobman]

I'd love something like Zach Collins, Blake Wesley, 2 2nds for Brook Lopez. That's probably only possible if the Bucks continue to really struggle, including at the point of attack defensively and want to shake it up. Collins and Portis are redundant, but I think Doc undervalues Brook, and getting to 48 minutes of great rim protection (and, in the same way as CP3 is a point guard mentor, having Brook mentor Vic on all the big man positioning / 2.9ing / Screen setting stuff) would be really valuable.

After that, obviously, shooting is the priority. Hard to build a good offense without people the opposing team is scared of shooting 3s. Eventually, you're going to want some shooters that put the fear of god into opposing defences, though I don't think that's a this year thing.

[scott]

I'd love something like Zach Collins, Blake Wesley, 2 2nds for Brook Lopez. That's probably only possible if the Bucks continue to really struggle, including at the point of attack defensively and want to shake it up. Collins and Portis are redundant, but I think Doc undervalues Brook, and getting to 48 minutes of great rim protection (and, in the same way as CP3 is a point guard mentor, having Brook mentor Vic on all the big man positioning / 2.9ing / Screen setting stuff) would be really valuable.

After that, obviously, shooting is the priority. Hard to build a good offense without people the opposing team is scared of shooting 3s. Eventually, you're going to want some shooters that put the fear of god into opposing defences, though I don't think that's a this year thing.

I love it for the Spurs - but why does MIL do this deal? Lopez is expiring this year, and I can't see MIL wanting to add $23MM of salary year for a couple of SRPs

[jesterbobman]

Because I'm dumb, didn't look at the fact that Brook Lopez only has this year left, having spent so much of the run up to the 2023 offseason concocting Brook Lopez FA dreams for a 3 year deal.

Probably not possible. Would need to make it a first (Charlotte's fakish first) or 4-5 high end 2nds (I think there's a case for this being very useful for asset deprived teams) to dump Zach's extra year, and I think that's maybe a bit much. Cap window for us looks like it should be the 2026 FA season, this wouldn't help.

[CGD]

Due to the second apron a Milwaukee trade would be something like a player for player (or two maybe) with the incoming player having smaller salary than the outgoing and only a possible 2031 second rounder as bait(or a 2031 first swap, which they'd be crazy to do). Not looking good for them at all, especially since they're so top heavy in terms of salaries.

Exactly, which makes it hard for them. My proposal above, incredibly, seems to be legal under those rules. Because it’s so hard, that should come with some sort of asset premium in my view.

[CGD]

Build your Sixers trades :-)

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/277991/Sixers-Willing-To-Trade-Future-First-Round-Picks#:~:text=%22I%20have%20been%20told%20repeated ly,his%20season%20debut%20next%20week.

[LeBowen]

Build your Sixers trades :-)

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/277991/Sixers-Willing-To-Trade-Future-First-Round-Picks#:~:text=%22I%20have%20been%20told%20repeated ly,his%20season%20debut%20next%20week.

There's nothing we'd be willing to give up and Sixers have interest in.
The only trades we can make at this point are upgrades with picks attached from our side.

Wemby, Devin, Jeremy and Castle are untouchable.
Champagnie is worth way more to us than what we'd get in a trade, noone is offering even a swap for him, let alone a FRP.
Branham, Wesley, Mamu, Bassey and Cissoko have no value other than being attached to match salaries.

Keldon, Collins and Tre are good contracts for salary matching, but have no value of their own.
Any combination between those three and a FRP or SRPs is what we should be focusing at.
But then again, looks like we won't come to close to the playoffs this season, so what's the point of sending FRPs unless we can get a legit long-term piece.

[Mr. Body]

How did I miss that it's $50 million for four years they gave Paul George on this trash roster? Man are they screwed.

[Chinook]

I'm starting to look at potential in-season trades, and I just have to reiterate my annoyance at the team burning more than half their room exception to get a 2031 second-rounder from SAC. The only way I can justify it is if this were spiritually part of the DeRozan trade. I've heard rumors things have changed this year, but at least under the previous rules, the Spurs would've been able to carry the entire $7.9-Million exception to the trade deadline. Maybe that would've gone unused, but the Spurs may well find themselves in position to where they want to add a significant player to their roster but don't have the contracts to do so.

Anyway, for this post, I'm going operate under the assumption that the Spurs are going to look to be a solid play-in team by the time the trade deadline rolls around. The team isn't at the point where a major trade is warranted, but they're successful enough to invest a little in. I'm listing the following players are unavailable for trade.

Paul, Jones
Vassell,
Castle, Johnson
Sochan, Barnes
Wembanyama, Collins

Yes, I know some of those guys (Johnson and Collins especially) are not seen as untouchable on this forum, just as I think a lot of fans might not want to give up Champ and Mamu. But let's say for argument's sake that those nine guys come together, play up to their talent, and but the Spurs in the 6-9 range at the deadline. I think it would interesting to look at some real but conservative moves the team could make to solidify that rotation.

If we're discussing two-for-one trades the two highest salaries on the available players would be Champagnie and Branham. Under the new rules of the CBA, the Spurs could trade them to bring back a salary of $12.68 Million or less. Immediately, I think of Coby White as a target who fits that criteria. He has a great combination of size, passing and shooting. He's not perfect -- his impact stats are meh compared to his raw stats, and he doesn't seem to be a good defender despite having the physical profile of one. But he does seem like someone who could be in the mix to start at PG next season and provide spacing and ball-movement this season. I just don't know if it makes sense to give Chicago their pick back for him and how else to balance the trade if they offer less. As far as ballast goes, losing Champ would be tough, but the Spurs could sign Minix to fill that empty role or even use it for a buyout candidate should one become available and prefers the Spurs/the partial RE money they could offer. There are other guys who could fit in this range too, but a lot of the sixth-man types require more salary than the Spurs can offer with two matching contracts.

If the team is able to pull a three-for-one (which I don't think should be considered likely this summer, even though the celebration market is booming. Adding Wesley to the group raises the maximum salary receivable to $16.34 Million. As mentioned, though, those types a of trades are difficult to do in within the season. With the remainder if the MLE, the Spurs might be able to pull off a functional two-for-three deal and just have one of the incoming guys absorbed by the remaining part of the RE.

[Bruno]

I don't see at all Spurs doing a significant trade before the deadline.
They will likely continue to rebuild the team through the draft. This strategy is finally looking good with Sochan and Castle showing promises. The 2025 draft seems to be great and should be perfect for Spurs to get the 1 or 2 very good players they still need.
And Wembanyama not being ready to be a franchise player of a successful team right now allow Spurs not to speed up the rebuilding process with trades.

Paul being traded might happen if he desires to join a playoff team.

[Pauleta14]

Chinook why wouldn't you be open to trade Tre Jones?

He has an attractive expiring contract and if we keep Cp3 and Castle confirms, he's not that useful

As well in the case of a Coby White arrival

I know some of u are attached to him, but his use and limitations were for a specific (tank/development) era that we all wish to get out of asap

[Mugen]

Tre is good to keep around in a scenario where the Spurs are competing for a playoff spot. Good insurance to have around given CP3's injury history.

I also don't think you'd get much value for him as he'd really only be useful for a contender a la Denver. And contending teams aren't going to give a good player back in return.

If the Spurs are tanking again come trade deadline and somebody wants to offer a late first for Tre then by all means pull the trigger tbh.

[baseline bum]

I'd do Keldon for Robinson straight up... you're gonna also give me a FRP and a swap from an aging team?

Yes please!

The 20030 dream!

[Chinook]

I don't see at all Spurs doing a significant trade before the deadline.
They will likely continue to rebuild the team through the draft. This strategy is finally looking good with Sochan and Castle showing promises. The 2025 draft seems to be great and should be perfect for Spurs to get the 1 or 2 very good players they still need.
And Wembanyama not being ready to be a franchise player of a successful team right now allow Spurs not to speed up the rebuilding process with trades.

Paul being traded might happen if he desires to join a playoff team.

The Spurs could be a playoff team, or at least a play-in team if they hold serve. We're talking as if the Spurs are horrible and I'm trying to push them to make a move for a star. They're mediocre, and I'm talking about making a moderate move for a guy who could start next year and beyond and who has the skill-set to both compliment and offset Sochan and Castle. It's a way to reward the players for being in that position at the deadline and the futureproof the roster from Paul and Jones walking in an off-season where the Spurs still won't have significant cap space.

[Chinook]

Chinook why wouldn't you be open to trade Tre Jones?

I'm not a Wembyite who thinks everyone on the team sucked except for him and the folks who graded out well rode on his coat tails. Jones is easily a top-two PG on the team right now, and if Paul's age catches up to him, he'd be the first. Castle and Wesley aren't close. I don't know if you're just in the ST memes, but Tre's under no threat of losing his rotation spot. On the contrary, the team has been battling to survive his absence. He was slated for a pretty big role both backing up and playing with Paul. The team definitely needs 48 minutes of competent PG play if they're going to capitalize on their talent. Wemby for sure needs that consistency at the position if he's going to remain on the right side of the exploration/production line.

Yes, Tre has trade value, but the Spurs don't require value anymore. They have plenty of it stored up. Obviously, in a world where the Spurs don't have a good season, the team will have to decide if they want Tre as a long-term piece or not. If they don't, they should trade him. But that's not the given ST thinks it is. A fully healthy Spurs team is much better than they're getting credit for. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see them win at least one play-in game this year. That's not despite their roster, but because of it.

[LeBowen]

Yes, Tre has trade value, but the Spurs don't require value anymore. They have plenty of it stored up.

This is the most important bit.
We most definitely can't get a FRP for Tre meaning there's no point in trading him.
The only trade I can see happening is if it's Tre packaged with Keldon or Collins for an upgrade with Spurs adding another FRP.


Jones is easily a top-two PG on the team right now, and if Paul's age catches up to him, he'd be the first.

He's a great backup PG, but I wouldn't overestimate his abilities. While he looked great last season, that was mostly on Spurs not having anyone else with any point guard skills whatsoever.
Tre is a high IQ player, but he's still a point guard with no real range because most of his 3pts were from corners.
Plays textbook defense, makes the right decisions, but is just too small and unathletic to not get torched by any competent point guard.
Solid backup role is his ceiling.

[Pauleta14]

I'm not a Wembyite who thinks everyone on the team sucked except for him and the folks who graded out well rode on his coat tails. Jones is easily a top-two PG on the team right now, and if Paul's age catches up to him, he'd be the first. Castle and Wesley aren't close. I don't know if you're just in the ST memes, but Tre's under no threat of losing his rotation spot. On the contrary, the team has been battling to survive his absence. He was slated for a pretty big role both backing up and playing with Paul. The team definitely needs 48 minutes of competent PG play if they're going to capitalize on their talent. Wemby for sure needs that consistency at the position if he's going to remain on the right side of the exploration/production line.

Yes, Tre has trade value, but the Spurs don't require value anymore. They have plenty of it stored up. Obviously, in a world where the Spurs don't have a good season, the team will have to decide if they want Tre as a long-term piece or not. If they don't, they should trade him. But that's not the given ST thinks it is. A fully healthy Spurs team is much better than they're getting credit for. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see them win at least one play-in game this year. That's not despite their roster, but because of it.

Was that ad hominem attack necessary? It's a reflex or what?? :lol

I'm not a fanboy of anyone, my question was based on his limitations (that are not arguable) and valuable expiring contract

I too miss Tre Jones, but not so much bc he's amazing more bc Wesley and Brahman are awful

Of course Stephon isn't there yet, he's a rookie, but he's worth the price of his mistakes and needs PT

You suggested a trade for Coby White who could be a great idea and would make Tre redondant as well

Lastly you don't need to go extreme all the time and take any criticism or diff taste as being hatefull or based on emotions. There are plenty of diff opinions and analysis than yours. the point is to exchange

[jesterbobman]

I've thought of Coby White too, and have the same balancing issues.

I think Chicago would view Cody as a core piece moving forward and a good selection at 7 (perfectly fine logic for them), and value him as a top 10 (ish) pick. I think they'd demand the protected Chicago pick back.

I don't think he's good enough for a #11 pick / a Chicago pick that conveys, as while he's fine, he's not going to be providing surplus value for long over his short contract relative to CP3 / Tre (limited, but good), would give value above Malaki / Blake. We don't have to win every trade from an asset perspective, it's OK to be a bit negative on value for fit (Coby definitely fits as a ++ offensive player / - defensive player) who can play off or on ball, but I think that'd be a big asset loss considering duration. Worthwhile if you can re-sign him to a decent deal, but I think you'd be looking at something like the Ant Simons contract given his play (4, 100m) from the 26 FA.

I'd be sniffing around to see if it's doable without a first, or look to places for upgrades over Mamu (Kevin Love? close to washed but still good but impact metrics).

[rankingtear]

Tre archetype is actually one of the rarest in the league, there are very few surviving game managers. That is the type of player the team needs right now. There are probably 4 good ones remaining and we have 2 and even tried to get the other Jones for a couple of offseasons now.

[Chinook]

This is the most important bit.
We most definitely can't get a FRP for Tre meaning there's no point in trading him.
The only trade I can see happening is if it's Tre packaged with Keldon or Collins for an upgrade with Spurs adding another FRP.



He's a great backup PG, but I wouldn't overestimate his abilities. While he looked great last season, that was mostly on Spurs not having anyone else with any point guard skills whatsoever.
Tre is a high IQ player, but he's still a point guard with no real range because most of his 3pts were from corners.
Plays textbook defense, makes the right decisions, but is just too small and unathletic to not get torched by any competent point guard.
Solid backup role is his ceiling.

Tre didn't just look good last year. He's been good for years now, even when compared to players not on the Spurs. Nobody is talking about him getting a max contract or even starting long term. But the idea that the Spurs can't use him because they have a rookie wing and a couple of recovering busts behind him isn't something I can get behind. These games matter, and passing up on PG play trying to get an asset is not okay. And at some point, it's necessary for folks to see the difference between being flawed and being bad. Jones had had good defensive marks for at least the last two years before this one. That means he was able to hold his own on D even before Wemby was behind him to clean up mistakes. Height has always been overrated on defense. There's a reason why the playoffs isn't just filled with big defensive PGs, especially off the bench. There are more than one way to play the position.

After Tre finally became a starter last year, he performed at almost the exact same level as Tyus Jones did. A lot of folks credit Tyus with stabilizing the Suns but for some reason scoff at the Spurs having similar qualities off their bench. You say Jones is a great backup PG and then say solid backup PG is his ceiling. Which is it?

[CGD]

Great convo starter. kuddos.

I love trade talk as much as the next guy, but all these questions start with “what’s the goal”? Personally, for at least one more season, I’m still in the asset accumulation and cycling through “older” young players phase. That, and I think this team can be competitive for the playin as constituted, even with Vic being a year away developmentally — or at least I dont think it’s valuable to throw good assets to chase a marginal improvement. That’s just me.

I’m mostly curious what happens with the trio of Keldon, Tre, and Zach. There is a clear value curve on their contracts, and i hope the team decides to sell as high as reasonably possible on each before their value decreases. For example, Tre is probably most valuable now to the trade deadline, and then he’s really useless to us for trade purposes.

It’s unfortunate that the Bucks have no real picks to trade, otherwise I think we can be a good dumping ground for a broken Middleton in exchange for some combination of the above 3.

[The Truth #6]

We have 4 point guards right now, basically. But a lot could change for next year. CP could be gone. Castle is likely starting. I doubt they want Blake over Jones long-term, but maybe they keep all three?

[Chinook]

Was that ad hominem attack necessary? It's a reflex or what?? :lol

Lastly you don't need to go extreme all the time and take any criticism or diff taste as being hatefull or based on emotions. There are plenty of diff opinions and analysis than yours. the point is to exchange

So you can't look for a personal attack (which you incorrectly call an ad hominem) in my post and them tell me that I need to learn to take criticism better. You made a bad take in a different thread and couldn't help but going down multiple rabbit holes with other posters. You certainly have work to do on that end.


I'm not a fanboy of anyone, my question was based on his limitations (that are not arguable) and valuable expiring contract

I too miss Tre Jones, but not so much bc he's amazing more bc Wesley and Brahman are awful

Of course Stephon isn't there yet, he's a rookie, but he's worth the price of his mistakes and needs PT

I'm not getting into Jones' limitations again, because that topic's been beat to death. Being exploitable is not the same thing as being bad. If a team thinks it's going to win by isoing the backup PG as its main game plan, the Spurs have already won.

Using words like "amazing" creates this situation that basically straw-mans me into saying Jones has to be some elite player. That's not the debate. He's a good player, objectively, compared to other PGs in the league. He isn't just good in comparison to Wesley and Branham. He was good before Wemby came into the league. He's just good. He's not "amazing", but he doesn't have to be to be worth keeping around. The Spurs should be trying to have at least 10 good players as they continue to build up their top prospects. Right now, they have nine. I don't think they should be interested in dropping down to eight just for shiggles.

Jones isn't taking any minutes from Castle. Stephon has never been and may never be the sole or even main ball-handler in his time with the Spurs. Jones would be another guy to play with him and to take on the on-ball duties when things get tough. Castle pairs very well with Paul right now for this reason. If the Spurs got someone like Coby White, it would just add another ball-handling option to the mix to protect against injury, foul trouble or guys just having off nights.


You suggested a trade for Coby White who could be a great idea and would make Tre redondant as well

Yeah, I suggested trading for White specifically with the idea that Jones would remain on the team. I don't think they're redundant at all. White at his size and with his shooting, would be the bench SG. Tre, with his better play-making and inside game, would be the backup PG. Next year, sure, we could see something like White, Vassell, Castle, Sochan, Wembanyama as the starting five. But that unit would have another PG-like player, another guy who played PG for part of a season, a third guy who has a budding PnR game and a young star who wants to play on the perimeter. That's a completely different type of situation than what the bench has going on right now. For this bench, I'd like a scoring guard who could drive and shoot to basically pair with Keldon in the second unit. Very few guys (especially who can fit into that trade slot previously mentioned) can meet that bar while also replacing Jones' strengths -- which as I said, are critically important to the Spurs maintaining the positive momentum Wemby shows. Maybe they'd get lucky with a buyout candidate, but that would warrant a different season than I projected here.

[Chinook]

Great convo starter. kuddos.

I love trade talk as much as the next guy, but all these questions start with “what’s the goal”? Personally, for at least one more season, I’m still in the asset accumulation and cycling through “older” young players phase. That, and I think this team can be competitive for the playin as constituted, even with Vic being a year away developmentally — or at least I dont think it’s valuable to throw good assets to chase a marginal improvement. That’s just me.

:toast

I do have some quibbles though. The Spurs may be competitive as constructed, but actually getting there or better yet, getting a top-six seed could be very helpful for the young guys. I'm in favor of making a move to help with that. There's a wide gap between trading a blue-chip pick like ATL 25 and trading a moderately protected pick like CHI 25. The team is drowning in picks and should be looking to convert them into tangible assets. Turning one of their lesser picks into a young starting-caliber guard seems like a good use of that. Despite the talk about how great this draft is, the Spurs could easily get two mid- to late-lottery picks, and those guys are probably not going to be the game-changers tankers are hoping for. The definitely shouldn't pencil those picks to be key rotation players next season.

Also Wemby is more than one year away from being a true contending hub. But he's definitely not too young to get playoff experience.


I’m mostly curious what happens with the trio of Keldon, Tre, and Zach. There is a clear value curve on their contracts, and i hope the team decides to sell as high as reasonably possible on each before their value decreases. For example, Tre is probably most valuable now to the trade deadline, and then he’s really useless to us for trade purposes.

See, to me "as constructed" means with those guys. They aren't incidental to the team's potential success. They're key to it. So it's either the Spurs are competitive and thus shouldn't be looking to trade those guys, or the Spurs are looking to trade those guys because they aren't competitive. The latter situation can happen, of course, but it's not what I was talking about. It's not that those guys are untouchable, of course, but the Spurs are past the point where they should be looking at good productive players as pieces to convert to future value.

[exstatic]

Tre archetype is actually one of the rarest in the league, there are very few surviving game managers. That is the type of player the team needs right now. There are probably 4 good ones remaining and we have 2 and even tried to get the other Jones for a couple of offseasons now.

Tre and his brother are nearly the same player, great game managers and very high asst/TO ratio, and Tyus has salvaged the Phoenix experiment by just allowing their stars to operate, and not have to run the offense. Teams are going to want that.

[baseline bum]

I think the Spurs are going to have a hard time holding onto Tre in free agency. Wouldn't surprise me to see him get offers around $20 million a year.

[CGD]

I think the Spurs are going to have a hard time holding onto Tre in free agency. Wouldn't surprise me to see him get offers around $20 million a year.

I would have agreed with you last year, but I do wonder if this is true in the new CBA. Seems like those type of deals in the future (basically MLE guys who get overpaid) will be super costly if not handled right.

[Pauleta14]

So you can't look for a personal attack (which you incorrectly call an ad hominem) in my post and them tell me that I need to learn to take criticism better. You made a bad take in a different thread and couldn't help but going down multiple rabbit holes with other posters. You certainly have work to do on that end


You're being childishly condescending when I'm only focused on the topic, you're basically making film in your head, thinking u know me and even mix up some convo with others posters that have nothing to do with this one.

I didn't say you need to learn criticism at all, read me again, I said you need to accept there are other opinions and no one holds any truth all the time as you seem to think, you don't have the slightest degree of agnosticism/humility and present your pov as truth and whoever disagrees is a "wembyite" (wtf is that ) dishonest etc

It's just insane :lol

I genuinely gave it another try with you but it seems I was right from the start. You're not very smart



I'm not getting into Jones' limitations again, because that topic's been beat to death. Being exploitable is not the same thing as being bad. If a team thinks it's going to win by isoing the backup PG as its main game plan, the Spurs have already won.

Using words like "amazing" creates this situation that basically straw-mans me into saying Jones has to be some elite player. That's not the debate. He's a good player, objectively, compared to other PGs in the league. He isn't just good in comparison to Wesley and Branham. He was good before Wemby came into the league. He's just good. He's not "amazing", but he doesn't have to be to be worth keeping around. The Spurs should be trying to have at least 10 good players as they continue to build up their top prospects. Right now, they have nine. I don't think they should be interested in dropping down to eight just for shiggles.

Jones isn't taking any minutes from Castle. Stephon has never been and may never be the sole or even main ball-handler in his time with the Spurs. Jones would be another guy to play with him and to take on the on-ball duties when things get tough. Castle pairs very well with Paul right now for this reason. If the Spurs got someone like Coby White, it would just add another ball-handling option to the mix to protect against injury, foul trouble or guys just having off nights.

It is for you for sure, doesn't mean it actually is.

Forget the word "amazing" then, Tre is a liability on defense bc of his size and on offense bc of his shot. Those aren't opinions.

The fact that he isn't as much of a liability than Wesley or Brahman doesn't make him reliable.


Yeah, I suggested trading for White specifically with the idea that Jones would remain on the team. I don't think they're redundant at all. White at his size and with his shooting, would be the bench SG. Tre, with his better play-making and inside game, would be the backup PG. Next year, sure, we could see something like White, Vassell, Castle, Sochan, Wembanyama as the starting five. But that unit would have another PG-like player, another guy who played PG for part of a season, a third guy who has a budding PnR game and a young star who wants to play on the perimeter. That's a completely different type of situation than what the bench has going on right now. For this bench, I'd like a scoring guard who could drive and shoot to basically pair with Keldon in the second unit. Very few guys (especially who can fit into that trade slot previously mentioned) can meet that bar while also replacing Jones' strengths -- which as I said, are critically important to the Spurs maintaining the positive momentum Wemby shows. Maybe they'd get lucky with a buyout candidate, but that would warrant a different season than I projected here.

So now Tre is a good playmaker ...:lol

Yeah as long as his job is only to pass to a 3pt shooter, he sucks below the FT line and can't do a simple P&R, not even tries to get better at it, only Devin tried and improved last season.

Tre is an overachiever, high IQ dude very well aware of his limitations who smartly never tries stuff he's not good at. The pb is that the team needs a PG who can do those stuff.

Why keep a player with such a low ceiling instead of looking for a player with a higher one? It makes no sense to me

Next season, it should be Castle starter, Cp3 with the 2nd unit or if he's gone another profle than Tre as backup PG

[Pauleta14]

I think the Spurs are going to have a hard time holding onto Tre in free agency. Wouldn't surprise me to see him get offers around $20 million a year.

:lmao

Yeah and Biden should win the elections. Wait...

The sniffer syndrom is strong smh

[jesterbobman]

I think Tre is solid, and being really good as an NBA team requires both top end talent and a bunch of average players / average minutes from guys with limitations.

Tre is probably a ~ #35 PG in the NBA. Not amazing, has limitations, but not making mistakes, and organising is really critical. Also, he's 24. He's not over the hill, he was probably better as an NBA player than Coby White up until the 22-23 season, and while I get you don't want a good reserve as your starter, there's a world of difference between competent backup and young guy with better tools though worse play.

Replacing all our below average bench minutes (from Malaki, Blake, Keldon, Collins) with players who are the equivalent of how good Tre Jones is probably makes us 8 - 10 wins better.

[baseline bum]

:lmao

Yeah and Biden should win the elections. Wait...

The sniffer syndrom is strong smh

I see you still can't resist making an ass of yourself

[Bruno]

The Spurs could be a playoff team, or at least a play-in team if they hold serve. We're talking as if the Spurs are horrible and I'm trying to push them to make a move for a star. They're mediocre, and I'm talking about making a moderate move for a guy who could start next year and beyond and who has the skill-set to both compliment and offset Sochan and Castle. It's a way to reward the players for being in that position at the deadline and the futureproof the roster from Paul and Jones walking in an off-season where the Spurs still won't have significant cap space.

I'm not saying your trade idea is bad, it's just I don't see Spurs doing a trade. Last Summer, Spurs had about $28M in cap space and the $8M room exception. Their first FA target was a 39 years old Chris Paul. After getting him, they focused on using what was left to get future draft assets. They're sticking to the slow rebuild strategy.

I think Spurs priority is right now to keep as much roster flexibility before the draft. They want that, whoever is the BPA, will also be a good fit with the team. If they did, for example, a Coby White trade, it makes drafting a combo guard more difficult because that player would have a hard time getting playing time.

They could be less draft centered at the trade deadline if the draft looks weaker than now and/or if Spurs various first round picks aren't projected to be as high as they currently are.

[Pauleta14]

I see you still can't resist making an ass of yourself

The irony :lol

Don't cry kiddo, it's ok to be wrong. You nust be used to by now

[Atl Spur]

I think Tre will be traded and Blake retained; Blake has potential position flex ( Nunez can come over next year also ).

[Chinook]

I'm not saying your trade idea is bad, it's just I don't see Spurs doing a trade. Last Summer, Spurs had about $28M in cap space and the $8M room exception. Their first FA target was a 39 years old Chris Paul. After getting him, they focused on using what was left to get future draft assets. They're sticking to the slow rebuild strategy.

I think Spurs priority is right now to keep as much roster flexibility before the draft. They want that, whoever is the BPA, will also be a good fit with the team. If they did, for example, a Coby White trade, it makes drafting a combo guard more difficult because that player would have a hard time getting playing time.

They could be less draft centered at the trade deadline if the draft looks weaker than now and/or if Spurs various first round picks aren't projected to be as high as they currently are.

Indeed. I don't disagree with what the Spurs' plan was coming into the year. However, I hope they're more flexible to how the year actually breaks down. They definitely don't seem to be hard tanking at this point. Unless the league gave them a warning, I think they're willing to lose draft position on their natural pick in order to see how far their roster takes them. My point is that if the Spurs find themselves in the mix in February, I could see them thinking the difference between their natural pick being 11th versus 16th isn't more valuable than giving Wemby, Vassell and Sochan playoff experience. Of course, with given last year's results, maybe the Spurs don't want to pass up on any chance to win the lottery. But if that's their mentality, they should start finding ways to hold guys out sooner than later.

[LeBowen]

Indeed. I don't disagree with what the Spurs' plan was coming into the year. However, I hope they're more flexible to how the year actually breaks down. They definitely don't seem to be hard tanking at this point. Unless the league gave them a warning, I think they're willing to lose draft position on their natural pick in order to see how far their roster takes them. My point is that if the Spurs find themselves in the mix in February, I could see them thinking the difference between their natural pick being 11th versus 16th isn't more valuable than giving Wemby, Vassell and Sochan playoff experience. Of course, with given last year's results, maybe the Spurs don't want to pass up on any chance to win the lottery. But if that's their mentality, they should start finding ways to hold guys out sooner than later.

I don't see how we could possibly get into top5 odds with East being so weak, but top10 odds in this draft are fine.
If this draft was on the level of last one, we would've probably seen some more winning moves. But this class seems too good to pass on.

Another issue is that these days every player that's worth anything costs a lot. We got plenty of picks, but trading 4 FRPs for Bridges is insanity, even if those picks aren't projected to be in the lottery.
Too many variables have to allign for a trade to be worth it these days. Wright needs to stay ready and jump at every good opportunity, similar to what Boston did with Derrick, Jrue and Porzingis.
This new CBA plays to our advantage because Wemby will be the best player in the league in an era with no suprteams, but it also means we shouldn't trade for max contract players if they're not 100% worth it.

[baseline bum]

The irony :lol

Don't cry kiddo, it's ok to be wrong. You nust be used to by now

Really? You're the one who was throwing a hissy fit post after post of 'l3@Rn 2 rEAd' because I wasn't able to read posts you never made.

[Pauleta14]

Starting or not won't matter much imo

Spurs don't have anyone in the roster capable of doing what he does on defense (man to man + bigger bodies) AND on offense (penetrations, fouls baiting, P&R below FT line), especially with Sochan out he can't be used less than 25' and he's a lot more ready than Wemby was physically and can handle +30' easy.

Just please no injury...

[Pauleta14]

Really? You're the one who was throwing a hissy fit post after post of 'l3@Rn 2 rEAd' because I wasn't able to read posts you never made.

Yes genius, Tre is so vastly underpaid.. :lol

You're entertaining me, I give u that

[baseline bum]

Yes genius, Tre is so vastly underpaid.. :lol

You're entertaining me, I give u that

How triggered are you to start whining about Biden in a thread about Spurs trade ideas?

[Leetonidas]

Just read some article about Butler possibly being on the trade market and some NBA executive thinks SA is a dark horse landing spot :lol what an absolute crock of shit

[Pauleta14]

How triggered are you to start whining about Biden in a thread about Spurs trade ideas?

Nah Biden was just to troll, I dgaf :lol

I can't ignore the way you and some of ur ST mates acted like low IQ bullies when politic was a topic. I know how it gets u all emo

It worked :lol

[baseline bum]

Nah Biden was just to troll, I dgaf :lol

I can't ignore the way you and some of ur ST mates acted like low IQ bullies when politic was a topic. I know how it gets u all emo

It worked :lol

lol look in the mirror

[ambchang]

As unpopular as it sounds, im in the camp of having the spurs build the skeleton of the team, the add the remaining pieces through trades and FA signings.

The main point of contention is around FOs ability to draft, and despite majority opinion on ST, I think the spurs drafted pretty well

KJ is actually a good pick considering he was end of first round
Vassell was a good pick
Sochan was at least an average pick, if not a good pick
Wemby is a no brainer
Castle appears to be a good pick from what we can see so far.

Wesley and Braham are meh picks.
Second round picks are supposed to be swings, but tre is a good pick. The rest are meh so far.

I felt the spurs are envisioning the end product and then drafting accordingly, which is not a bad approach.

My concern is more around development. It seems the players are treading water for a few years and the progress is slow. The plays and lineups are also mystifying.

[stnick2261]

As unpopular as it sounds, im in the camp of having the spurs build the skeleton of the team, the add the remaining pieces through trades and FA signings.

The main point of contention is around FOs ability to draft, and despite majority opinion on ST, I think the spurs drafted pretty well

KJ is actually a good pick considering he was end of first round
Vassell was a good pick
Sochan was at least an average pick, if not a good pick
Wemby is a no brainer
Castle appears to be a good pick from what we can see so far.

Wesley and Braham are meh picks.
Second round picks are supposed to be swings, but tre is a good pick. The rest are meh so far.

I felt the spurs are envisioning the end product and then drafting accordingly, which is not a bad approach.

My concern is more around development. It seems the players are treading water for a few years and the progress is slow. The plays and lineups are also mystifying.

I agree with you on all of that and hope a new coach will be able to spur the development part.

[Pauleta14]

lol look in the mirror

Weak

[baseline bum]

Weak

Bitch about Biden again why don't you?

[Kevin]

Jazz are 2-8. Lauri cant be traded until the summer but I fully expect his name to come up in trade rumors this off-season. Jazz should deal him. Time to start over. Spurs should trade for Lauri this summer. His contract is reasonable and he'll be 31 in the final year of the deal.

[LeBowen]

Jazz are 2-8. Lauri cant be traded until the summer but I fully expect his name to come up in trade rumors this off-season. Jazz should deal him. Time to start over. Spurs should trade for Lauri this summer. His contract is reasonable and he'll be 31 in the final year of the deal.

The thing is that Jazz don't need any more FRPs.
If they get a top3 pick and one of those kids is as good as advertised, they're good to go and they'll be right back into competing. Their ownership never wanted to tank, anyway. But not even they're that dumb to pass up on Flagg lottery.
They more or less own MIN and CLE picks up until 2029 and Lakers 2027 pick.

Markkanen will be available for the right price, but that price will probably be too steep for everyone unless he asks out.
Considering their picks stash, I'd say there's no chance we get Markkanen without giving up one of Castle/Devin/Jeremy and at that point it's not worth it.

[jesterbobman]

In a bad contracts for bad contracts trade, how would people here feel about Collins, Keldon for DeAndre Ayton? Works in terms of salaries as Ayton has 2 years left at 35m.

Really not sure how (any, minor) draft compensation would be needed to amend this - DeAndre is much harder to trade to other teams with the second Apron rules on combining salaries, Clingan is probably only a few months away from straight better.

CP3 / Vassell / Castle / Barnes / Wemby
Blake (Tre back)/ Branham / Champagne / Mamu (Sochan back) / Ayton
Blake / Mamu ...

Keeps / expands (via moving on from Keldon's last year) 2026 cap space, Keldon would probably be their best scoring wing.

[itzsoweezee]

In a bad contracts for bad contracts trade, how would people here feel about Collins, Keldon for DeAndre Ayton? Works in terms of salaries as Ayton has 2 years left at 35m.

Really not sure how (any, minor) draft compensation would be needed to amend this - DeAndre is much harder to trade to other teams with the second Apron rules on combining salaries, Clingan is probably only a few months away from straight better.

CP3 / Vassell / Castle / Barnes / Wemby
Blake (Tre back)/ Branham / Champagne / Mamu (Sochan back) / Ayton
Blake / Mamu ...

Keeps / expands (via moving on from Keldon's last year) 2026 cap space, Keldon would probably be their best scoring wing.

I’d rather have timelord than ayton. Ayton doesn’t play strong defense either, and he doesn’t shoot threes

[exstatic]

In a bad contracts for bad contracts trade, how would people here feel about Collins, Keldon for DeAndre Ayton? Works in terms of salaries as Ayton has 2 years left at 35m.

Really not sure how (any, minor) draft compensation would be needed to amend this - DeAndre is much harder to trade to other teams with the second Apron rules on combining salaries, Clingan is probably only a few months away from straight better.

CP3 / Vassell / Castle / Barnes / Wemby
Blake (Tre back)/ Branham / Champagne / Mamu (Sochan back) / Ayton
Blake / Mamu ...

Keeps / expands (via moving on from Keldon's last year) 2026 cap space, Keldon would probably be their best scoring wing.

He’s a fucking loser. When asked what his nba goals were,he said to get to his second contract. The team that drafted him, his hometown NBA franchise, were so disgusted with him that they salary dumped him. That should tell you all you need to know. His new franchise just used a top 10 pick to draft his replacement.

[Dverde]

I don’t want nothing to do with Ayton. Raptors appear to be struggling…only fitting for us to trade back for Poeltl. Poeltl for Collins with draft compensation. I miss Poeltl’s screens and offensive rebounding.

[baseline bum]

In a bad contracts for bad contracts trade, how would people here feel about Collins, Keldon for DeAndre Ayton? Works in terms of salaries as Ayton has 2 years left at 35m.

Really not sure how (any, minor) draft compensation would be needed to amend this - DeAndre is much harder to trade to other teams with the second Apron rules on combining salaries, Clingan is probably only a few months away from straight better.

CP3 / Vassell / Castle / Barnes / Wemby
Blake (Tre back)/ Branham / Champagne / Mamu (Sochan back) / Ayton
Blake / Mamu ...

Keeps / expands (via moving on from Keldon's last year) 2026 cap space, Keldon would probably be their best scoring wing.

No thanks, no way that loser is worth $70 million.

[Mugen]

Ayton missing a game because of an icy driveway is still hilarious tbh :lol

[DPG21920]

I dont mind SA making a “win-now” type deal, but it has to be both 1) very favorable for spurs asset/cost wise and 2) someone that fits with the longer term future.

Spurs should not be giving up critical high value assets for aging stars who will be declining and/or seek massive deals soon.

[Dejounte]

I’m fine with aging stars as long as they have the same impact or greater as Paul and Barnes is having on the team. Bring them on tbh

[jesterbobman]

I don't think Ayton is good, but I think he's more of a true C and better than Zach, and if we're trading bad contracts, we'd be getting bad contracts back. Whole bunch of better players on better contracts than Ayton, which is why he might be gettable.

I'd prefer just Collins and pieces for Lopez, but I don't think either are good enough to trade away first round picks for - we're not that good, not worth giving up good assets for OK depth when we'll need improvements in the long term.

[Mugen]

I hate that we're paying 18mil/year for a backup C. I'd hate it even more if we were paying 35mil/year tbh :lol

[LeBowen]

I hate that we're paying 18mil/year for a backup C. I'd hate it even more if we were paying 35mil/year tbh :lol

Vucci Mane should be our guy for $20M a year.
I'd honestly give up Chicago's FRP just to get rid of Collins.

[scott]

What if, and hear me out here, we gave Charles Bassey an opportunity? I feel like Mitch has been good for Mamu and eventually we’ll see a similar opportunity for Bassey… at least I hope so.

I don’t really want to move Collins for some other overpriced backup C for us to hate… I’d rather try to use him (and Keldon) for some wing help. Again, I dont hate Keldon I just don’t think he fits the team and he will eventually be an indirect hindrance to Castle minutes once Tre and Sochan are back

[Dejounte]

What if, and hear me out here, we gave Charles Bassey an opportunity? I feel like Mitch has been good for Mamu and eventually we’ll see a similar opportunity for Bassey… at least I hope so.

I don’t really want to move Collins for some other overpriced backup C for us to hate… I’d rather try to use him (and Keldon) for some wing help. Again, I dont hate Keldon I just don’t think he fits the team and he will eventually be an indirect hindrance to Castle minutes once Tre and Sochan are back

i feel like bassey is only here because the spurs roster can’t practice like normal against wemby so they got a traditional one they can go against in scrimmages to mimic your typical NBA C

[The Truth #6]

I don't think the FO could handle paying 18 million a year for a third string center, in the scenario that Bassey gets his minutes. So yeah, they'd have to trade Collins but I don't see that happening. Yet, I'd like to see Bassey now and then somehow more than just garbage time.

But the Collins thing is hilarious in the big picture. When he first got here people were praying he would stay healthy, now he's like an iron man, but people just don't like the way he plays. Lol.

[Chinook]

What if, and hear me out here, we gave Charles Bassey an opportunity? I feel like Mitch has been good for Mamu and eventually we’ll see a similar opportunity for Bassey… at least I hope so.

I don’t really want to move Collins for some other overpriced backup C for us to hate… I’d rather try to use him (and Keldon) for some wing help.

I'm gonna channel my inner Exstatic and say:

Zach
Collins
Is
Having
A
Good
Season

Pardon me for that, but Zach's start to this season is currently his best year in a number of metrics, but STers are so lost in memes that you'd think it causes them physical pain when he plays. It seems hard for many to accept that 1/7 into the season, the team has looked very competent. They have 10-12 guys who have been solid in their minutes and decent depth options. No, they aren't a serious team yet. Yes, getting to that level would require moving on from a number of the players on the roster. But they've been good enough to accomplish their goals for this season. These next two weeks or so will determine how big of a jump they've made.


Again, I dont hate Keldon I just don’t think he fits the team and he will eventually be an indirect hindrance to Castle minutes once Tre and Sochan are back

Keldon has played almost exclusively PF since Sochan went and played it a lot before the injury. I know BBRef says he's played mostly SF, but if you look at the lineups, he's playing with a forward who's taller than him but is definitely not the PF like Champ. On a healthy roster, Keldon's competing with Barnes for PF minutes and maybe Champ for SF minutes. Right now, it's hard to justify not playing Keldon given how many of the team's best lineups over the last two years he's been a part of. I would expect to see basically no Branham and Wesley minutes outside of garbage time/foul trouble, Barnes, Paul and Champagnie with fewer minutes and a fair bit more small-ball (both of the multi-PG and three-forward/centerless varieties) rather than Johnson and Castle competing for minutes.

[jesterbobman]

I think the Keldon AT PF AND Collins at C combo is the issue, though there's not much that can be done about that.

With our guards having(in general, Vassell has flashes) poor off the dribble shooting / not much dynamism, and relying on team continuity, Zach's ability to shoot, and be a quality passer / decision maker is valuable to the offense. I think he's the type of big that works best in a two big alignment (E.g, playing C next to a John Collins type), rather than with a PG and 3 wings. Leads to issues that are easy to blame on him. I think Ayton / Lopez would be able to fill the offensive role given their skill sets. I trust Brook to be smart more, Ayton is a buy low candidate.

If there's not a great deal to be had, I think you roll with it for now, note the roster construction issue if you want to run a stretch / non unicorn big as your backup, potentially add a PF in the draft (Asa Newell / CMB) alongside however you improve the wings, or think of some other bench format to be effective. If Sochan / Wemby doesn't work, you've got an in house change lined up.

Without trade, I'd like to see more minutes with Sochan next to Collins, so Wemby can be a drop big with shooting around him, and Sochan can be the primary roll threat and help play in an alignment that covers Zach's weaknesses. I think that's the best split of minutes for this year, though I'm sure that the FO want the Sochan / Wemby frontcourt partnership to develop, and that will take time and some lumps, including the bench being a bit wonky.

When thinking trades, I'm basing options around:
1. Wanting to keep 2026 Cap space - With Zach and Harrisons contacts coming off the books then, and the year before Wemby's max hits the books: Probably also means not extending Sochan after this year (use his cap hold as a #9 pick, likely lower than his slarya).
2. Use 2nd rounders / fake firsts (i.e, Charlotte, I think that's best though of as about #40 in 26 and 27) for temporary upgrades / cap relief, real firsts for significant upgrades that should last more than 6 months - No point in having a rental for real assets given where we are as a fringe play in team.
3. Looking at teams that have a reason to get rid of someone - giving minutes to a younger rookie(Portland with Cllingan), coming cap crunch for a non contender(If the Wolves stay 10th-ish, are they keeping both Julius Randle and Naz Reid after this season), they're a tanking team / doing worse than expected and picks might be useful (Milwaukee, righting the ship).

I'd hope the FO is thinking similarly about broad strategy.

[tbdog]

Collins is having a good season. Also the second unit has been injured.

[Bruno]

Collins has been fine this year but I wouldn't go beyond that. At the end it's a center who isn't a good defender and rebounder and who is scoring 5.6ppg in 14.1mpg right now.

Collins being overpaid has already hurt Spurs a little.
Because of his new contract, Spurs didn't have enough cap space to do the Barnes trade and they had to salary dump Devonte' Graham first. This salary dump cost Spurs a second round pick which was Pelican's 2025 pick. At the time of the trade, it was projected to be a mid second round pick but it can be better with all the injuries Pelicans have. For reference, Spurs got that Pels' pick from the Cameron Payne trade with Phoenix.

Collins is okish as a stopgap backup C. I don't like his profile to be the long term backup C. Spurs need someone who has more paint defensive presence than him, even if that player can't shoot 3's.

[exstatic]

Collins has been fine this year but I wouldn't go beyond that. At the end it's a center who isn't a good defender and rebounder and who is scoring 5.6ppg in 14.1mpg right now.

Collins being overpaid has already hurt Spurs a little.
Because of his new contract, Spurs didn't have enough cap space to do the Barnes trade and they had to salary dump Devonte' Graham first. This salary dump cost Spurs a second round pick which was Pelican's 2025 pick. At the time of the trade, it was projected to be a mid second round pick but it can be better with all the injuries Pelicans have. For reference, Spurs got that Pels' pick from the Cameron Payne trade with Phoenix.

Collins is okish as a stopgap backup C. I don't like his profile to be the long term backup C. Spurs need someone who has more paint defensive presence than him, even if that player can't shoot 3's.

But, isn’t that kind of the reason we acquired that shit ton of second rounders? To grease transactions? It sure as hell wasn’t to select players with each one.

[buttsR4rebounding]

The thing is that Jazz don't need any more FRPs.
If they get a top3 pick and one of those kids is as good as advertised, they're good to go and they'll be right back into competing. Their ownership never wanted to tank, anyway. But not even they're that dumb to pass up on Flagg lottery.
They more or less own MIN and CLE picks up until 2029 and Lakers 2027 pick.

Markkanen will be available for the right price, but that price will probably be too steep for everyone unless he asks out.
Considering their picks stash, I'd say there's no chance we get Markkanen without giving up one of Castle/Devin/Jeremy and at that point it's not worth it.

The Jazz are actually starting to play much better. Largely on the strength of the play of John Collins. He's averaging 22, 9, and 3 over his last five. He has become much more of a playmaker this year doubling his career assist number. All of a sudden his contract isn't terrible. In fact, I think there is a good chance that he opts out of the last year of the contract next year at $26 million. He's been shooting 37% from 3 last year and this year. They have him playing center at 6'9" with a 7 footer playing perimeter on offense. Hmmm. If you think Sochan is better coming off the bench then he would be a pretty okay fit with Wemby. Not sure what the deal is, but it would likely have to include Keldon.

[exstatic]

The Jazz are actually starting to play much better. Largely on the strength of the play of John Collins. He's averaging 22, 9, and 3 over his last five. He has become much more of a playmaker this year doubling his career assist number. All of a sudden his contract isn't terrible. In fact, I think there is a good chance that he opts out of the last year of the contract next year at $26 million. He's been shooting 37% from 3 last year and this year. They have him playing center at 6'9" with a 7 footer playing perimeter on offense. Hmmm. If you think Sochan is better coming off the bench then he would be a pretty okay fit with Wemby. Not sure what the deal is, but it would likely have to include Keldon.

What you have to ask yourself is who has the cap room and interest to pay him more? My guess would be that it’s a short to non-existent list.

[LeBowen]

The Jazz are actually starting to play much better. Largely on the strength of the play of John Collins. He's averaging 22, 9, and 3 over his last five. He has become much more of a playmaker this year doubling his career assist number. All of a sudden his contract isn't terrible. In fact, I think there is a good chance that he opts out of the last year of the contract next year at $26 million. He's been shooting 37% from 3 last year and this year. They have him playing center at 6'9" with a 7 footer playing perimeter on offense. Hmmm. If you think Sochan is better coming off the bench then he would be a pretty okay fit with Wemby.

Yeah, Collins is a good player. He injured his shooting hand ring finger and fell off in his last season with the Hawks, but his contract is fair value considering his level of play.
We also mentioned him during the summer.
I'd say he'd be perfect for a 3 man frontcourt rotation.
Jeremy and Wemby start, Collins comes in early since Wemby is always the first one to sit. Then when Jeremy sits Wemby comes back into the game.
Collins can be the C against almost every bench big with ease, especially if he keeps shooting it this well. And we keep Bassey to play some minutes here and there if needed.


Not sure what the deal is, but it would likely have to include Keldon.

Collins for Collins+Tre work perfectly salary wise if we don't plan on keeping Tre.
Then Utah can flip Tre for some assets. Maybe Spurs add that fake Hornets FRP or something.

[Chinook]

I don't think even ATL feels like Zach is on a good contract right now. There's a difference between thinking he's been a bad use of cap space and that he's been a bad player. If this were 2019, I could understand that idea. But we've seen years of legit bad play now. We should be better calibrated.

I wonder if Wemby's further movement toward the perimeter means the team could revisit two-big lineups. I still don't think Collins is a great fit there, though I do think the Spurs basically had the two play the opposite roles than their comfort zone. I think Collins wants to be an inside big with Wemby on the outside, whereas the Spurs tried to have Collins be the shooter to space for Wemby inside. I think an aggressive rim-runner like Bassey would be a better compliment both for Victor and for the guards who could use a more straight-forward PnR workhorse. With guys like Sochan and Castle, getting a center into the mix isn't without risk. But I'd look into it with Jeremy's injury and Barnes being due for low minutes if not a rest game (the rest game is very unlikely while Barnes is on a 234-game streak of consecutive starts). That seems far preferable to playing Mamu with the starters.

[ginobilized]

I don't think even ATL feels like Zach is on a good contract right now. There's a difference between thinking he's been a bad use of cap space and that he's been a bad player. If this were 2019, I could understand that idea. But we've seen years of legit bad play now. We should be better calibrated.

I wonder if Wemby's further movement toward the perimeter means the team could revisit two-big lineups. I still don't think Collins is a great fit there, though I do think the Spurs basically had the two play the opposite roles than their comfort zone. I think Collins wants to be an inside big with Wemby on the outside, whereas the Spurs tried to have Collins be the shooter to space for Wemby inside. I think an aggressive rim-runner like Bassey would be a better compliment both for Victor and for the guards who could use a more straight-forward PnR workhorse. With guys like Sochan and Castle, getting a center into the mix isn't without risk. But I'd look into it with Jeremy's injury and Barnes being due for low minutes if not a rest game (the rest game is very unlikely while Barnes is on a 234-game streak of consecutive starts). That seems far preferable to playing Mamu with the starters.

Great points! It does seem like their roles were reversed last season.

I see the two big lineup as the ultimate goal. Either a bruiser with a good touch or a modern-day mobile big like Sarr, who has the tools to be really good imho. Once the team is good enough, they can force teams to adjust to them. Probably 2-3 years off. At the very least, another strong player 6'9" or above would help immensely in the short term.

[LeBowen]

I see the two big lineup as the ultimate goal.

And I'm back at Markkanen talk. :lol
Pairing him with Wemby would make it impossible for opposition to have legit bigs on the floor unless it's a all-NBA level big.
Opponents are matching up their big wings with Wemby while Sochan is matched up with their centers.
With Markkanen on the floor, their big is either ran off the floor because he can't keep up on the perimeter or Markkanen matches up with a smaller wing which is really easy for him to exploit and score over.

We just need to find that 6'10 high volume 3pt shooter and it's over for the league.

[rankingtear]

I don't think even ATL feels like Zach is on a good contract right now. There's a difference between thinking he's been a bad use of cap space and that he's been a bad player. If this were 2019, I could understand that idea. But we've seen years of legit bad play now. We should be better calibrated.

I wonder if Wemby's further movement toward the perimeter means the team could revisit two-big lineups. I still don't think Collins is a great fit there, though I do think the Spurs basically had the two play the opposite roles than their comfort zone. I think Collins wants to be an inside big with Wemby on the outside, whereas the Spurs tried to have Collins be the shooter to space for Wemby inside. I think an aggressive rim-runner like Bassey would be a better compliment both for Victor and for the guards who could use a more straight-forward PnR workhorse. With guys like Sochan and Castle, getting a center into the mix isn't without risk. But I'd look into it with Jeremy's injury and Barnes being due for low minutes if not a rest game (the rest game is very unlikely while Barnes is on a 234-game streak of consecutive starts). That seems far preferable to playing Mamu with the starters.

A rim runner next to Victor is the worst. Keeps the center at the rim and the forward on Vic. Atleast Sochan provides POA defense and can attack off the dribble with a long runway.

[Chinook]

A rim runner next to Victor is the worst. Keeps the center at the rim and the forward on Vic. Atleast Sochan provides POA defense and can attack off the dribble with a long runway.

So a rim-runner doesn't stay by the rim, and neither does his man. I did the whole spacing conversation in the Sochan and thread and don't want to unpack it again here. But vertical spacing is good for an offense, and there are plenty of ways to space the floor even if a center didn't move around the perimeter also, it's far better to make the opposing center work containing a pick-and-roll over and over rather than having him stand inside the arc and closing out every once in a while. This is also ignoring that Wemby isn't in the paint most of the time and thus doesn't need it clear, that teams are going to play the PF on Wemby until/unless Victor makes them stop and that there's nothing about being a rim-runner that prevents a player from also being able to shoot.

[rankingtear]

So a rim-runner doesn't stay by the rim, and neither does his man. I did the whole spacing conversation in the Sochan and thread and don't want to unpack it again here. But vertical spacing is good for an offense, and there are plenty of ways to space the floor even if a center didn't move around the perimeter also, it's far better to make the opposing center work containing a pick-and-roll over and over rather than having him stand inside the arc and closing out every once in a while. This is also ignoring that Wemby isn't in the paint most of the time and thus doesn't need it clear, that teams are going to play the PF on Wemby until/unless Victor makes them stop and that there's nothing about being a rim-runner that prevents a player from also being able to shoot.

The problem is the team won't have the best rim runner nor pnr ballhandler. Your running a third rate pnr game for what purpose exactly. There is value on making Sochan work in the SL far more than a second big man.

[Pauleta14]

For everything Cp3 brings short term, I can't wait to see the team play at a much faster pace like they sometimes did last season.

Adding a 2nd big could prevent that unless it's a singular super mobile profile a la Lauri

[scott]

Collins has been fine this year but I wouldn't go beyond that. At the end it's a center who isn't a good defender and rebounder and who is scoring 5.6ppg in 14.1mpg right now.

Collins being overpaid has already hurt Spurs a little.
Because of his new contract, Spurs didn't have enough cap space to do the Barnes trade and they had to salary dump Devonte' Graham first. This salary dump cost Spurs a second round pick which was Pelican's 2025 pick. At the time of the trade, it was projected to be a mid second round pick but it can be better with all the injuries Pelicans have. For reference, Spurs got that Pels' pick from the Cameron Payne trade with Phoenix.

Collins is okish as a stopgap backup C. I don't like his profile to be the long term backup C. Spurs need someone who has more paint defensive presence than him, even if that player can't shoot 3's.

Spot on. Collins is being given credit for exceeding the astonishing low expectations of him set by his own terrible play. If we grade this "good Zach Collins season" out like you should attempt to grade any $17MM backup center, it still comes out a negative.

[scott]

It would be nice/refreshing to see one of Collins, Keldon, Branham or Wesley dumped well ahead of the trade deadline, and not in the typical Spurs charity case “we’re going to find you a nice home” kind of way, to send a message that we’re a serious team now and we’re not going to tolerate low performing tank commanders any longer. Branham or Wesley would be the easiest/cheapest ones to do this with, so we can start with them.

Wesley and 2 SRPs to the Wizards for the draft rights to whoever DC’s version of Juan Nunez is.

[RC_Drunkford]

Spurs either need to go for a rim rolling big a la Poeltl. These players are advance stats monsters and high impact players especially coming off the bench. That would give us solid rim protection for 48 minutes, but the fit next to Sochan is questionable since most of these bigs can't shoot.

Or we go for a stretch big, Naz Reid for example. John Collins might work too. The question here is, how does the rim protection look with them, since they are undersized.

[rankingtear]

There is no point in putting too much effort in fixing our bench. A lot of things in our SL is still up in the air and a ton of significant prospects coming in the next 2 drafts.

[Dverde]

Keldon at least brings toughness and grittiness on the boards. I have no issue with him staying if the Spurs are not going to get a positive asset in return. Zollins is the one I would pay to salary dump to free up that cash for the next offseason. Collins is fine, but we could easily get a similar player for half the cost. Still 100% down with trading him for Poeltl despite his horrible FT percentage. If Wemby is going to play more outside we need a banger and screener like him. Poeltl is overpaid, but the Spurs know he’ll fit in and how to use him.

[rascal]

I'd like to see the Spurs put a package together to get Jordan Hawkins.

[scott]

I think the Spurs, as currently constructed, are somewhere in that 36-42 win window, about where Houston was last year after bringing in some key vets to help guide their youth.

I'd like to see us make a couple of strategic acquisitions to see if we can make a push for the playoffs THIS YEAR. That playoff experience will pay more dividends than getting pick #12 instead of pick #18.

[spurraider21]

Spurs either need to go for a rim rolling big a la Poeltl. These players are advance stats monsters and high impact players especially coming off the bench. That would give us solid rim protection for 48 minutes, but the fit next to Sochan is questionable since most of these bigs can't shoot.

Or we go for a stretch big, Naz Reid for example. John Collins might work too. The question here is, how does the rim protection look with them, since they are undersized.
we have charles bassey at home

[Dejounte]

I think the Spurs, as currently constructed, are somewhere in that 36-42 win window, about where Houston was last year after bringing in some key vets to help guide their youth.

I'd like to see us make a couple of strategic acquisitions to see if we can make a push for the playoffs THIS YEAR. That playoff experience will pay more dividends than getting pick #12 instead of pick #18.

Now that we do have core pieces to build around, this is the correct approach.

Actually, saying “we now have those core pieces” sounds funny because we’ve had a couple of them for more than three years. Turns out sometimes you don’t know if some players are your core pieces until after a couple years. Gotta be patient.

Wemby, Sochan, Vassell, Castle. Get these guys playoff experience and watch their development accelerate.

[ambchang]

I think there’s something in Wesley, sort of a poor man’s Lindsey hunter, but that really isn’t something that we need to invest a lot in because it’s sort of stupid to put so much effort and emphasis on ultimately a role player. M
As much as I like Malaki for his ability to heat up in a hurry (or at least the potential to), he doesn’t really fit. All I want for Christmas is a 3 and D small forward. Wemby can definitely create offence, castle is likely to gain the ability to do so, Vassell can create very well for himself, he just has to learn to ready the floor for better option, I don’t think sochan has it, nor do I think he needs to, but he can be a cog in the passing offence.


Defense I think we’re in good hands. All of them has above average to all d potential.

[ace3g]

Spurs definitely need PF/C help when Wemby is on the bench.

https://x.com/esidery/status/1862187210339963366

[scott]

How much trade capital do you think we'd need to attach to swap Zollins for Big Daddy?

[Sugus]

Man, I would pay to see Wemby play alongside Jakob Poeltl. What a combination of players and completely opposite approaches to their game...

Kinda hoping they go for it tbh. Homecoming for Purtle

[Bruno]

The key question about adding a good center is: Do you want to pair Wemby with a Center?

Wemby paired with Collins and with Gobert didn't work. One might say Collins sucks and FIBA basketball isn't NBA. Both arguments are legit but there are no signs that Wemby with a traditional center is a good idea.

If you don't pair Wemby with a center, the backup C player for Spurs will play about 15mpg in regular season and 10mpg in future playoffs. Investing too much for that kind of role would be a mistake. I wouldn't use a lottery pick and/or pay a player more than $10M per year to play these 10 or 15 mpg.

It's looking more and more that Collins isn't the answer for that spot. If there is a trade opportunity with him, Spurs shouldn't hesitate. What seems more likely is that no teams will be interested in him. In that case, Spurs should just let his contract expire. With no luxury tax issues, there is no need to spend assets to salary dump him. And it would be nice if Johnson/Pop go with Bassey as backup C for a stretch of games to properly evaluate him. If he can stay healthy, he might be good enough to be a the long term answer at that role.

[jesterbobman]

For Poeltl, I think the Chicago pick and Collins would be the start of conversation. Jak doesn't provide a ton of surplus value relative to his contract, but Zach is well below. Probably depends on how much Toronto wants to gamble on certain pick conveying vs the protected pick that can become nothing. Probably ways around that in a 3 team construction where a team with sure assets (Brooklyn?) is willing to gamble for a better asset. We're probably not good enough for that to be sensible - might as well throw Bassey out there.

I think Backup Centre is sneaky important, seeing how Philly / Denver have, for years been dominant with stars on court and let down without them, with some of the Philly series (e.g vs Toronto in 2019) being lost on the weakness of the backup 5. I think it's probably 1500 minutes a year (15 mpg in 70 games that Wemby plays, 30mpg in the other 12). Collins has his deal for the next year and a half, so you're paying, after that I think you're looking for someone at about the level of a MLE player, and, someone who can be a genuine rim protector and space eater inside - I think replicating a bit of the defence is more valuable than keeping the offense as a 5 out system, especially if you're playing a bunch of wings rather than a two big lineup.

[RC_Drunkford]

I‘m more for signing a combo big who can play C and PF like Naz Reid. Like Bruno said it really doesn‘t make sense to tie up big money for a back up C who plays 15 min every night.

[rankingtear]

For Poeltl, I think the Chicago pick and Collins would be the start of conversation. Jak doesn't provide a ton of surplus value relative to his contract, but Zach is well below. Probably depends on how much Toronto wants to gamble on certain pick conveying vs the protected pick that can become nothing. Probably ways around that in a 3 team construction where a team with sure assets (Brooklyn?) is willing to gamble for a better asset. We're probably not good enough for that to be sensible - might as well throw Bassey out there.

I think Backup Centre is sneaky important, seeing how Philly / Denver have, for years been dominant with stars on court and let down without them, with some of the Philly series (e.g vs Toronto in 2019) being lost on the weakness of the backup 5. I think it's probably 1500 minutes a year (15 mpg in 70 games that Wemby plays, 30mpg in the other 12). Collins has his deal for the next year and a half, so you're paying, after that I think you're looking for someone at about the level of a MLE player, and, someone who can be a genuine rim protector and space eater inside - I think replicating a bit of the defence is more valuable than keeping the offense as a 5 out system, especially if you're playing a bunch of wings rather than a two big lineup.

I would say once we start paying the important players there is no MLE left to pay a sneaky important player.